10 YRS AGO FLAGSHIP: Keller & Powell discuss alarmingly low Raw rating, Kane's supernatural transformation, Reigns vs. Bray, more

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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(01:06):
Now PW Torch and Spreaker bring you the Wade Keller
Pro Wrestling Podcast ten years ago. This week on the flagship,
I was joined by Jason Howell from prog Wrestling dot Net.
Just as I was yesterday on our brand new flagship.
I hope you check that out. Ten years ago, we
talked about Raw from the night before, including an alarmingly

(01:28):
low rating Caine's transformation, Roman raigns against Bray Wyatt, What
could fix Raw? And more. This originally live streamed on
September twenty ninth, twenty fifteen, and it is today's Wade
Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast ten years Ago Flakeship Flashback for Wednesday,
October first, twenty twenty five. Normally we post he's on Sunday.
I got mixed up posted the five years ago flagship.

(01:49):
We labeled it a ten years ago flagship and the
introduction and the headline. I apologized for that. You probably noticed.
But if you're interested in the five years ago show,
and that's what you came here for, we dropped that
on Sunday and it might say it was ten years ago,
but it's five. And you'll notice that pretty quick because
we talk about NXT takeovers. All right, that'll do it
for the introduction, So let's go to the show. Here

(02:11):
we go. Welcome to the p w Torch Live Cast.
I am with editor and publisher of the Pro Wrestling
Torch Weekly, newsletter since nineteen eighty seven and also pwtorch
dot com. The website updated with news and commentary, live

(02:31):
TV coverage, live pay per view coverage, specialist columns, and flashbacks.
Check it out every day pwtorch dot com on your
computer or your mobile device. It is customized for your
mobile phones and tablets. It is Tuesday, September twenty ninth,
twenty fifteen, and it is Tuesday, which means I am

(02:53):
joined by Jason Powell from Pro Wrestling dot Net to
break down last night's episode of Raw. Your thoughts on
that and take your phone calls. Getting a wide array
of opinions on last night's program, Let's bring Jason right
onto the program. Jason, welcome to the show this week.

Speaker 2 (03:09):
Hey Wade, good to be here.

Speaker 1 (03:10):
Good to have you. First question. It's been a conversation
on Twitter today. Certainly there are different schools of thought
on this. I am firmly on one side. What did
you think of Caine's transformation in the Ambulance.

Speaker 2 (03:24):
Cartoonish, campy, embarrassing. I just roll my eyes now in
WWE resorts see the old Cane bag of tricks once
a year in a top program, and I don't know
what it's going to. Every year, I convince myself Wade, like, oh,
Glenn Jacobs must be retiring. They want to give him

(03:44):
one final moment, one as he rides off into this
onset and he sticks around. And it's cool that he
sticks around, but I just don't need this every single year,
and I really do fear that this isn't a one
and done that we're going to be suffering through rollins
against Kine.

Speaker 1 (04:01):
Well not only that, well, let me say this, Glenn
Jacobs is one of the better performers in doing the
types of things that WWE's creative team likes to do.
Their writing team, Vincent especially. I thought his his switch
in the portrayal of of Cain as the happy, gold
lucky Gregarious version, where he then gives hints of the

(04:25):
vicious monster and then all went full fledged to that
role after the x KA from the Ambulance or the
exit from the Ambulance. He's really really good at that.
And I want to say that upfront. When it's like,
well Caine go away, or you know, he's sticking around,
it's like the reason he sticks around is he's so
damn good at doing things that I think are he

(04:46):
does things that could be valuable within the narrative structure
that I think pro wrestling thrives in, but they ask him.
And there's others in this case too, who end up
doing things that fall outside of that narrative structure that
I think is necessary for everything else on the show
to work. And it's just one of those things, you know.
I mean, somebody on Twitter said, and I want, I
don't want to be unfair about it, but they said, oh,

(05:07):
so cool. You know, I'm okay with it. It was cool,
And I'm like, well, it'd be cool if like Renee
Young grew a single horn on her head and transformed
into a unicorn, that would be cool too. But you
don't do it. Why because why would your interviewer be
a unicorn? And what would be the point. So you
have to ask yourself, what is the business point of this?

(05:29):
If it's just to be cool, why not have Neville
fly from the ceiling during his matches attached to strings
like air to solat show in Vegas. Why don't they
do that? Because it's not within the narrative structure of wrestling.
Matches are wrestlers fighting each other without being tied to
strings and you know, flying around with the aid of
ropes and strings and cables. And I just think Caine

(05:51):
transforming and having an ambulance fill up with smoke and
magically quickly transforming into Monster Caine is just super fake.
And I'm with you, Jason. I think it's embarrassing and
eye rolling and not part of the narrative structure that
is part of the rest of the show. So when
that happens, it's hard to take a lot of other
things all that seriously, you know, stomping his leg to
make his leg better. I'm sure there are people backstage

(06:13):
who were part of that who just loved the execution,
were slapping their knees over the hilarity of it or
the cleverness of it or the cool factor, but it
is it's just not in the narrative structure of what
I think works best they can do it. I just
think it does more damage than good. But there are
people who just they don't care about that stuff, the
narrative structure, and if it's cool, then for them it works.

(06:35):
I just talked to Bruce Mitchell for the VIP Bruce
Mitchell Lottia Show on Sunday, and we had a long
discussion about how I think some people within WWE, within
other wrestling companies are pretty concentrated and focused on writing
for themselves and what they enjoy. And I think even
there's fans out there who think it's a good show

(06:56):
if they enjoyed it, And it's a good show on
one level because they enjoyed watching it, and that's good.
That's you tune you want to. If you don't watch
wrestling to be tortured or miserable, you watch it to
enjoy it. But that doesn't mean that the layer of
analysis should then go to the next level, which is
Vincent Mann in the creative team did right by the stockholders.

(07:16):
And I think last night's show, even if you enjoyed
those aspects of it, you have to question whether your
judgment of what you personally enjoy is what the masses,
what will get the masses to get the most invested
in the rest of the narrative of the product that
you're presenting. And I just think I'm trying to put
this you know, fairly and even addedly, but I just

(07:37):
think booking for your own pleasure without regard to the
narrative structure that makes everything else work is selfish and
shortsighted and bad for business.

Speaker 2 (07:47):
Jason, I agree, and I think we're once again entering
that ball lull. I mean, we'll see how they do
what hell want to sell. It's a shame it doesn't
need to be this way, but a way. I just
feel like this company desperately needs to be shaken up.
I watched the show, and you know, with the with
viewership and ratings being what they are, I keep waiting

(08:09):
for something to happen. I keep thinking they're going to
really think outside the box and try to do something
different because the formula that they're using isn't working. I
just see no sign so that there's any sense of
urgency with them. It was just another run of the
mill edition of RAW.

Speaker 1 (08:26):
I agree, Yeah, I mean it. And I didn't like
despise the show. I thought they kind of hit they
checked the boxes of what they wanted to do, and
they certainly have been focused on the MSG Show and
promoting that. I'd mixed feelings about the Paul Hayman Big
Show segment, and you know, there's some aspects that I
liked about it and some that I didn't. We'll get
into that later. I do want to let people know

(08:47):
this is a live program and it is five o
eight Eastern to await Pacific time, and we are taking
phone calls on today's program and we welcome your calls.
The number to call to get in line in the
queue is six four six seven two one nine eight
two eight. That's six four six seven one ninety two eight.
Don't forget we do have a VP website. I mentioned

(09:07):
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can also upgrade to other tiers and receive even more
benefits through Patreon. All right, well, let's go to phone calls, Jason,
and let's begin with aera code six one six six

(09:50):
one six. Thanks for holding. Please state your name and
where you're calling from.

Speaker 3 (09:54):
This is there from Grand Ramp.

Speaker 4 (09:55):
That's how you doing doing great?

Speaker 5 (09:56):
Park?

Speaker 6 (09:57):
How you doing good?

Speaker 2 (10:00):
The question it's seth Roald triple h.

Speaker 7 (10:02):
That can put on the back burner for an hour?

Speaker 5 (10:04):
And what's the last was Sting's injury and that's all
he got?

Speaker 1 (10:07):
Same, great, thanks, sir Jason. They have been conspicuously quiet
about Sting, haven't they. I know online you know they
featured an interview with them a week ago today or yes,
I guess a week ago today, I think. But has
there been any any updates on him since then?

Speaker 2 (10:23):
No? Still awaiting test results? Was I think the last
thing that I read on that, and that came from
a Jim Ross piece. I mean, he addressed it in
the interview that they did. I don't know why they
chose to leave him off last week's television. I thought
we might get something on him last night, since if
there was any sort of an issue between the two,

(10:44):
obviously that had would seemingly have been resolved given that
he did the interview with the WWE website. It's just
I don't think he knew though reading that interview, he
made it seem like his wife knew more than he
did at that point, so I'm not sure if he
knew where things stood as far as the severity of
that neck injury goes.

Speaker 1 (11:03):
And how about Seth and Hunter. My impression, Jason is there. Yeah,
they put on the back burner strategically because I suspect
that that will be something that would see at WrestleMania.

Speaker 2 (11:14):
Maybe you know. I mean a Hunter has talked about
he and Rock have opened pretty open about the idea
of facing one another at Mania. Who knows what rock
schedule is and who knows what direction WWE will go
in if he's available. I think Rock versus Rock is
a much bigger match than Rock versus Hunter. I mean,
I just don't know how long this Cane program lasts,

(11:36):
and I fear that it's TLC, but it could easily
be a one and done and that would open the
door for something as soon as Survivor series. But I mean,
they're not really doing anything right now on the surface
that would make you think that match is approaching. It
just was so odd that they dedicated it that one
show to basically setting that up when they had two
other matches for Rawlins with Sting and John Cena to

(11:58):
promote at that time.

Speaker 1 (12:00):
Let's break or talk about some breaking news, and that
is the raw ratings. The you know, we're kind of
sitting around waiting. I don't need to bury the lead here,
but we're sitting around kind of waiting for WWE to
show some sense that what they're doing is not working.
And the ratings the last few weeks have not been good.

(12:20):
Two point four to seven, two point four to two,
and two point four to four. Going back the last
three weeks before that, they were doing pretty steady two
point seven ratings, so they dropped about three tenth of
a point on average. Last week's rating rounded up to
a two point five. The previous two weeks rounded down
to a two point four. This week, there's no qualifiers.
There's no excuses at all. I don't care how Marquis

(12:44):
that Monday night football game was or you know all.
You know, there wasn't a game. Seven Yankees Red Sox
Raw has faced a lot of stiff competition in the past.
They have not done a number this low since may
be the first handful of shows when they were just
establishing themselves before the Monday Night War era. Two point

(13:06):
three three, Jason, your first reaction to that rating.

Speaker 2 (13:12):
They deserve it. They're not doing anything that would increase
the rating. They're just going about their business as usual.
And I'm not disappointed for them in the least. I
want to see them break out of this slump that
they're in. This weird there's like this weird complacency with them.
If you watch the show, it just doesn't feel like
they're doing anything new. It does just if you just

(13:33):
watched the show and didn't follow ratings, you would probably assume, well,
they must be doing great based on you know how
just lackluster just I shouldn't say lacklus They're just kind
of coasting through, not shaking things up. And I don't
know if this will be the number that finally wakes
them up and gets them out of that funk. I'm
hopeful that it will be, But you're right. I mean,

(13:54):
there was a big football game last night, and it
looked like it was going to be a blowout, you know,
essentially was the Sheeps made it, you know, lok closer
than it actually was. By the time the game was over.
You would think that raw with the game becoming a blowout,
would start to pick up some of those viewers, and
instead the hourly viewership numbers just went down as the
show went on. They did their best number an hour one,

(14:16):
and then down an hour two, and down even more
an hour three.

Speaker 1 (14:20):
It's uh yeah, I mean, I just I look at
this number and it's it's like watching a company in denial,
and I just don't. I mean, I'm almost speechless at
the fact that they're holding course the way that they
are and continuing to make the mistakes Jason. When when

(14:42):
wrestling is hot, you don't see signs in the crowd
in protest of the product that they paid to see.
And last night, and again, I mean it's anecdotal, but
you just don't see this when the cot, when the con,
when the show was hot, somebody had a list of
people they didn't want to see anymore. You know, they
held up a sign. It was on camera and it
was you know, the Fall two fifteen, retire, please retire

(15:02):
tour Big Show Caine. They listed two or three others,
and you just have to think a two point three
three is such a sharp drop in rating. And you know,
I've been talking for weeks that this is well, first
of all, statistically, the drop is twice as sharp as

(15:23):
the average the last three years up against Monday night football.
So this is not Oh, the ratings always drop against
Monday night football. Everyone just relaxed. No, the sky is falling,
the Raw franchise sky is falling, and somebody in WWE
has to step up with some modicum of power and

(15:44):
get together with other like minded people and confront Vince
McMahon or privately, covertly go to the board, or go
to USA Network, whatever, go to the media, go to
wherever it takes, and get Vince McMahon to understand. As

(16:06):
somebody put on Twitter, Monday Night, Raw felt like a
seventy year old man playing with action figures for his grandchildren,
amusing himself more than his kids, probably, and at some
point they're going to have to move away from all
the comfort zones that finsic man at age seventy is
in all the self indulgent things that he does, and
that the people he surround himself who are their own

(16:28):
worst enemy because they're not going to have jobs or
they're not gonna they're gonna be the scapegoats if they
don't speak up and step up. Because featuring Kine and
Big show and the usual suspects and over exposing Seth
Rollins and treating their world champion as a child being
talked down to by the adults Triple Ah and Stephanie

(16:49):
and Kine and ruining the Diva's Revolution without even realizing it.
I mean, the way that they have framed the Diva's
Revolution is awful. And to have the announcers on commentary saying, well,
what the Divas revolution is is it's simply exposing with
cameras what has always been going on backstage, which is
women can't get along. You know, that's not what made

(17:10):
the NXT women really popular in NXT, that is not
what made Ronda Rausi a huge pay per view draw.
Talking about how Ronda Rawsi is like all women, she
just can't get along with any other women and now
she gets to take it out on them in the ring.
That's not good marketing. That's like Mad Men era male
chauvinist pig head buried in the ground. Stupidity, and it's

(17:33):
just one thing after another, you know. I mean, when
I watch NXT and ROH and TNA Impact, I see
all this talent and look at the lineups or Global
Force and look at the Global Force Talent on on
Wednesday nights up until this last week. There's a lot
of talent out there that could be really freshening up raw.
But Jason, I think people who watch for every week

(17:55):
have seen as you have enough of Kine doing this
stick enough of big Show, you know, with basically having
to have Paul Aiman come out there and do and
make an excuse for Big Show being in a main
event you know, well, yeah, big shows like that at
sixth grade mass student who's a genius in these boards,
so he doesn't really try well up against Brocky's gonna try.
That's Paul recognizing that the audience out there is looking

(18:16):
at big SHO would have main event yawning, going this
guy again and so WWE I think would instantly draw
better ratings. Jason. If everybody with a tenure of more
than ten years was banned from the show for three
months and it forced them to put new people out there,
I mean this rating, I don't know what kind of
wake up call. I've always said consecutive weeks under two

(18:36):
point five would cause a major shakeup. They've got to
do some major reevaluating of things once they get past
Saturday's MSG show, and I just think all the rules
that they've played by should be thrown out and they
need to start really doing It's a cliche, but some
soul searching about who they're pushing and the beliefs that

(18:58):
they have of what the right way to present a
rerest product is. Because they're doing a lot of damage
and it could get worse before it gets better.

Speaker 2 (19:04):
And I guess with the thing that I look to
when Vince McMahon is in these positions is he reaches
for names from the past, and I don't know that
there's there or any out there that are going to
get them out of this. I mean, Jeff Hardy could help.
He's still under contract to TNA and I don't see
that changing any time until January. I mean, what do

(19:25):
you think he does to really to shake that? Well?
First off, do you think he's going to shake things up?
Or is he just going to look at this as well?
We have Brock and Taker coming back and that'll solve
the problem. I mean, do you see widespread change occurring
because of this?

Speaker 1 (19:39):
I think there should be, and I unfortunately am not
confident that there will be. I think it might take
a month of this rating and maybe even ratings getting
a little worse before people have the guts to put
their jobs on the line and say what needs to

(20:00):
be said. I also worry that there's just too many
like minded people who just frankly don't understand the wrestling
business anymore and the narrative structure that's needed to make
it work. I think that a lot of people who
had who understand I mean, I'm reading Bob Backlin's book
right now and I'm halfway through. It's four hundred plus pages,

(20:20):
and you know, he traveled from one successful territory to
another in the seventies and share some of the wisdom
of those top wrestlers, whether it's you know, wrestler slash
promoters like Terry Funk or Sam Mushnick and Eddie Graham
and Dusty Rhodes. And there's good and bad with all
of them. But there's so many lessons to be learned
about what works with pro wrestling that I truly believe

(20:42):
are timeless, or at least do translate into twenty fifteen.
And I just think so much of what makes pro
wrestling work as a genre is lost in the way
that WWE is presenting the product right now, and so
many of the mistakes that have hurt them in the
past they're repeating. I don't think it's I don't think
major change will happen this week or in the next week.

(21:03):
But I think if this stay, if they did below
three million viewers in one hour and that third hour
got precariously close. It used to be a big when
they were below four million, and now they're precariously close
to being under three million for an hour, I just
think something's got to happen, Jason. I think the odds
start sharply rising. This is a publicly traded company with
stockholders and a board and a network in NBC Universal

(21:26):
that are going to wonder what the hell is going
on here, and some people need to start speaking up
about who see things the way that I do and
what's wrong with it? And boy, Jason, is this an
indictment of Roman Reigns. They moved him into that main event,
spot promoted it multiple times throughout the show, did a
backstage promo with both guys leading into the match. And

(21:49):
I don't know that I don't have the minute by
minute or quarter hours, but that third hour, you know,
doing three point one million is the lowest hour they've
had in a very very, very very very long time.
That is not a good sign for the guy that
the brain trust in WWE a year ago had marked
down as the new breakout top star.

Speaker 8 (22:10):
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Speaker 2 (23:16):
It's a flat match. You know, I liked what happened.
I thought the match itself was fine, and you know,
the finish was the finish, and the post match brawl
was pretty good. But it's a match we've seen and
that's kind of the ongoing issue with WWE as well.
They give you everything, they don't know how to save
anything anymore. They don't have the discipline. All the undercard

(23:37):
guy or mid card guys work against one another. If
any of them actually do crack into the top spot,
they's not fresh opponents for them unless they call someone
up from NXT. And so I just feel like I've
seen Wyatt had rained so many times before they played
the game of it's going to be a singles match,
and then why it comes out with his two guys,
and I just wonder how many people roll their eyes

(23:58):
and turned the channel at that point. Well, you know,
it ended up being a singles match, but it just
doesn't feel like a hot match. It's a mid card
pay per view match.

Speaker 1 (24:06):
Wad oh No, I know, I know. I just think
people flipping on the channel, checking out raw and commercial
breaks Monday night football. More people were watching television on
Monday nights now than we're a month ago. That happens
in the fall, so some of them are sampling raw
and they're not sticking around, you know, they're they're tuning in.
And I was a proponent of bringing the Dudley's back,
But when the Dudleys are part of a show that

(24:29):
is built around Big Show as a main event, as
a main event opponent coming up at the MSG Show
against a guy who's barely on television, and then you
have a Caine as the centerpiece heel, you know, feuding
at the world Champion, You're just sending the message to
people nothing new going on here, nothing to see, you know,
and people are tuning out. I mean, I think if

(24:51):
you replace Big Show Caine and the Dudleys with and
I'm just grabbing names out of not not randomly, but
I mean, if you if they I signed James Storm
and Magnus and I'll just say Daniels and Cass and
they're not you know, Daniels is in his forties. But
I'm just saying three fresh acts, a tag team act

(25:13):
and two singles acts and put them in place of Cain,
Big Show and the Dudleys. They're better off. I mean,
they're just better off because people Caine and Show and
the Dudleys are not hot enough acts right now, two
all have on the same show at once, getting big pushes,
sending a message to fans, no new stars breaking out here,
and anybody who's new, we're gonna let you know. They're

(25:34):
either women who can't get along and they're just fighting
on camera now and we're just gonna make sexist jokes
and they're a TNA show, or you're gonna have a
couple voices of reason fighting tied that is going against them,
including the tone of the announcing, which is the tone
is set by Vincient Mann, completely different than what you
heard with the Divas Revolution and NXT and people are

(25:55):
gonna tune in and listen to that and see New Day.
You know, Okay, New Day's fun, but they're haha comedy.
It's lower card stuff, and it's fine to have that
as part of the product, but they can't be your
hottest young fresh act on a three hour, ten minute show.
So yeah, I don't know anyway, Jason, I just want
to go to calls. I mean, I just the rating
is stunning, but at the same time, I think it's
it's something that again, if this show Draped was drawing

(26:19):
a three point three rating, I'd be adjusting my thinking.
I mean I would I'd have to go, all right,
this is not what I would have predicted would have worked.
But it seems to be working, and I would have
been humble enough to do that. I mean, I I've
had to eat crow before as far as I don't
think this will work, and it did not very often.
But no, I'm kidding, but wwe needs to do that.
I mean, they really need to look at this and
go all right, we thought we knew the right way,

(26:41):
we believed in a certain way, and the numbers are
telling us it's not working. And they just need to
be man enough and woman enough, grown up enough to say,
all right, we got to rethink some things, and I
hope this rating it does it. All right, let's go
back to the phone calls. We'll continue to move through
calls and we'll get off. I'll get off my sermon.
Stand here a little bit, and uh, hear what you

(27:02):
guys have to say here if you're joining us midstream.
By the way, just tuning in, Remember our show has
shifted a half hour earlier this season from what we
had the time slot we had the previous five and
five years and eight months of hosting the show on Tuesdays,
and we are now on at five eastern, four Central,
three Mountain two Pacific. That's a start time a half
hour earlier than before. All right, let's go to Eric

(27:22):
code Ato two next, Ato two. Thanks for holding. Please
state your name and where you're calling from.

Speaker 9 (27:28):
Vermont.

Speaker 1 (27:28):
Hey, Aaron, good here from you. What's on your mind today?

Speaker 10 (27:32):
Oh?

Speaker 9 (27:32):
Last nights we're all with just a nightmare?

Speaker 10 (27:36):
Oh I do you know what to say?

Speaker 9 (27:38):
You already said.

Speaker 10 (27:39):
There was an in person note.

Speaker 9 (27:40):
Though, that said that they didn't play the show on
the screen. That's why the crowd was so dead last night.

Speaker 11 (27:47):
I don't know if you guys saw that or not.

Speaker 1 (27:49):
I saw you mentioned that.

Speaker 9 (27:50):
Yeah, they didn't play the Alta Paint had to stand
up last night because they didn't play the show on
the base screen. He's just the raw logos. A lot
of people had to stand up.

Speaker 10 (28:02):
And they said, that's why the crowd was so dead
last night.

Speaker 2 (28:06):
I thought it was because they they well, they didn't
get the show off to a good store. You know.
They get people fired about John seeing his open challenge,
and it turns out to be just an uneventful guy.
I like New Day, but who's going to be excited
about an open challenge with Xavior Woods challenging. Nobody expects
him to win. And so they did the big dramatic
pause even before before he played the trombone, And as

(28:27):
soon as that he played the trombone, you could just
see like the oxygen get sucked out of the room.
It was like people weren't looking forward to that.

Speaker 1 (28:34):
And I'll say too, I'll add to that opening segment.
And it happens a lot with Raw. Now. You can
tell they've got about two hours twenty minutes of content
and they just stretch out a bunch of segments.

Speaker 10 (28:44):
You know.

Speaker 1 (28:44):
And I've used the analogy before. He had to write
a paper for high school to college and they say, oh,
make it a four page paper. And at least in
my day, you know, they didn't. You know, it wasn't
necessarily always word counts. It was just like, I make
it write a four page paper. Well, i'd get to,
you know, the two and a half page mark or
two and three quarterback. I got nothing else to say.
All right, let's make the margins wider, Let's go to
two and a half spacing instead of double. Let's make

(29:05):
the font a little bigger on the word processor or
the computer and stretch it out to near four pages.
That's what some of these segments feel like. They feel like.
I mean, the New Day, it was like, all right,
I get it, let's get going. There's no sense of urgency,
no sense of a swift pace to things. And I
think that plays into it too. I just don't think
people at patients to sit through a five minute segment

(29:25):
taking nine or eleven minutes, go ahead erin.

Speaker 9 (29:29):
No, No, they don't.

Speaker 10 (29:30):
And next week I will be there in Boston.

Speaker 9 (29:33):
What am I getting myself into? Like, they didn't advertise anything.

Speaker 11 (29:37):
I talked to Jason on Twitter earlier.

Speaker 9 (29:39):
They didn't advertise a thing.

Speaker 7 (29:40):
I don't know what's happening this week.

Speaker 1 (29:43):
Well, you're in for probably a shift away from what
happens at MSG and a shift toward the hype for
Helena cell And maybe you're in for Maybe you're in
for the most news worth the addition of raw ever,
because maybe this two point three three is going to
lead to a big shakeup.

Speaker 10 (30:00):
Do you think they bring in Brock or Tanker next week?

Speaker 1 (30:04):
Jason? Are they advertised for Monday?

Speaker 2 (30:06):
No, they're not advertised on either you know, WWE's website
or the arena website. Doesn't mean they can't surprise people,
but at this point, with the rating being what it is,
i'd want that word out there.

Speaker 1 (30:18):
By the way, a year ago, Rod did a two
point eight three rating same week up against Monday Night
Football compared to two point three to three, so they're
a full half point down from where they were a
year ago. Aaron, any other anything else for you before
we go to other colors? No, that's it, right, guys,
Thanks for venting, Jason. I feel like we're on a
post NFL local talks show. After the home team the

(30:39):
wine line, Yes, yes, after they lost forty one to three,
you know, your home team.

Speaker 2 (30:46):
Or the week one game against the Niners.

Speaker 1 (30:48):
Yeah, well there's that. We're about to go to a
commercial break. Why listed the commercial breaks when you can
go vi ip and experience our shows with the ads
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That's PW Torch dot com slash go VIP for full details,
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(31:10):
cents to remove the ads and plugs through Patreon. Full
VIP membership starts at nine dollars in ninety nine cents
to treat yourself to a streamlined, add and plug free
listening experience with a VIP or Patreon membership. All right,
three or five, you're up next? Thanks for holding.

Speaker 5 (31:26):
Hey guys, DJ from Miami.

Speaker 1 (31:28):
Ay DJ, thanks for Colin. What have you got for Jason?

Speaker 5 (31:30):
To me? I got one comment and two questions. My
comment is that did you guys hear about the Randy
Orton DDP thing? But then DDP said he might back
out because of well having this thing. I don't know
if you guys heard about that.

Speaker 1 (31:45):
I no, I did. I didn't Jason talk about that.

Speaker 2 (31:47):
If you've heard about it, no news to me?

Speaker 1 (31:49):
What? What? What's your source? What do you what are
you hearing? Tell us?

Speaker 6 (31:52):
Uh No.

Speaker 5 (31:53):
A friend of mine was here. He likes wrestling too,
and he said on somewhere website it said that about
DDP and Ready Orton.

Speaker 1 (32:01):
Having a match or a feud.

Speaker 12 (32:04):
Yeah, yes, okay, no, I can check on it.

Speaker 1 (32:09):
What else?

Speaker 10 (32:10):
I mean?

Speaker 2 (32:10):
I know Page does some you know, he makes appearances,
but wasn't his neck into or did he have some
physical ailment that kind of prevented him from working?

Speaker 1 (32:22):
I think that physical ailment should be called being over
fifty years old right now too? No really, I mean,
you know Sean Walman, he'll be on the show, by
the way, I should plug this on Thursday. He's in
the hospital right now. He ended up with a doctors
we're concerned about a blockage or a swelling after an
arm and shoulder injury. I haven't gotten a ton of
details on it. He did periscope on it from the

(32:42):
hospital bed. It's one of the best Twitter accounts by wrestler.
By the way, you should follow Sean Waltman xpock if
you if you get a chance. But he'll be on Thursday,
and I don't want to talk about that. You know,
Seawann's already talking about you know, this isn't going to
stop him and he's going to keep wrestling. And Shawn's
you know, forty three years old, and you know, that's
within the range of reasonability if you're healthy, you know,

(33:02):
but it's pushing it depending on you know, how the
mile that you have in your in your physical condition.
But when you start getting into the fifties and you're
fifty years old, like Undertaker, fifty years old, like Steve Austin,
with the history of the injuries that both of them have,
I just I've still on a personal level, I just
don't know that I can enjoy watching Undertaker take big
bumps anymore. And I'm you know, the Sting match is

(33:24):
just you know, what happened with Sting earlier this month
is for the evidence of it. I don't want to
see old wrestlers, old wrestlers from a professional athlete age standpoint,
putting their bodies on the line like that. I think
it's it's actually tremendously selfish of fans to even want it.
I think, if you're going to get a you still
have a chance. That chance should be translated in your
brain and in the promoter's brain as I should still

(33:47):
be doing this. Make room for the young guys.

Speaker 2 (33:50):
I don't mind watching take or go through the motions,
you know, I can live with that. I don't need
to see him being thrown around bry brock Lesner, and
I think that's where WWE he needs to get, you know,
kind of set things straight. They're relying too much on
these guys. They're asking too much of them. If Sting
were to go out there and work Bo Dallas and
hit the Stinger splash a few times and do the

(34:11):
Scorpion death drop and go home, okay, fine, But I
just think it's silly to expect these guys to work
a WWE to a twenty fifteen main event style.

Speaker 1 (34:21):
I agree. And if you're getting a you still got
a chant, that probably means you're doing something that the
fans can't believe you're doing because you're so old. And
maybe there's a good reason they're thinking that. So I
just I think promoters should kind of aim for a
twenty sixteen free of chance of you've still got it,
because it just if fans are chatting that that means

(34:44):
that they can't believe you're still doing what you're doing
because you're old. And we saw with Sting, you know,
we see with a lot of wrestlers who are older,
the risks are just really great, I deta anything else
for us.

Speaker 10 (34:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (34:55):
My second thing was is that Barrett.

Speaker 10 (34:57):
I mean, I can't believe now he came back.

Speaker 5 (34:59):
Now he's already going after demo again, Like have we
already seen this? Been there, done that already?

Speaker 1 (35:04):
I mean, I mean yeah, when it's sort of I mean,
at least he wasn't wearing the King. I mean, he's
he's way Bard, he's bad news bared, He's King Barrett.
I learned from tough enough that there's nothing about the
King gimmick that's authentic. It's just him putting on an act.
I like to believe that. And I think it enhances
the narrative of the product. And this goes into stuff

(35:25):
I rant about all the time. I think it enhances
the narrative of the product, just like it does when
you watch a reality TV show that you strongly suspect
has a very high percentage of orchestrated situations and people
playing up a certain aspect of their personality to add drama.
I don't want those people on those reality shows to
counter that persona while that show is airing. It enhances

(35:47):
the reality show. If you think that the guy who's
being a dick on the reality show might actually be
like that in real life, not somebody who is. While
you're watching the show, there's commercial showing him doing charity work.
You know. It's just there's no reality producer that would
do that, and for good reason. It hurts. It hurts
the investment in the narrative of the wrestlers on the show.

(36:08):
So yeah, I think that there it is a sign
of a of a of a larger issue as far
as that goes. So anyway, Jason, let me give you
a chance here to plug your website and your membership
and then we'll be back to phone calls. The number
to reach us if you want to get in line
on the phone banks six four, six, seven, eight, two eight.

(36:32):
I am going to let people know a lot of
people want event right now. We've got sort of post
WrestleMania numbers of callers right now one two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve, thirteen, fourteenth.
Wely fifteen people on hold right now. We haven't gotten
to so the line is long, but you're welcome to
get in that line. Jason, talk about your website and

(36:54):
what white people should visit it.

Speaker 2 (36:56):
Absolutely on the main page today page discusses her page
bomb Bun Twitter at Pro Wrestling Net.

Speaker 1 (37:03):
Excellent, Jason, thank you very much. Let's, without further ado,
go back to the phone lines. Jason, you and I
will talk about more raw specific and non raw specific
things in the VIP after show, which will be available
later tonight, tacked onto the live cast for our respective members.
We also, as I noted earlier, take out all the

(37:24):
ads and plugs the live cast for our members. Same
thing for the website when you sign up for a
VIP membership, and Jason, your site's the same way. When
you sign up, the ads go away, and that's a
pretty cool thing too. Let's go to our next caller.
Try to be concise and limit yourself to one or
two quick questions or topics, since we do have so

(37:44):
many callers today and limited time. And by the way,
I do want to note Pat McNeil is going to
be by tomorrow or no, Jim Valley's going to be
by tomorrow at a special time. Pat is on assignment
or on vacation or something like that. But Jim Valley
he'll be hosting, and he's got a special guest. His
start time is a little bit later than usual. It

(38:08):
will be at six pm Eastern tomorrow, so a special
start time later than usual, an hour later than usual,
So check that out. If that works better for your schedule,
you can call Jim and Vent. Jim's gonna have on
Seattle radio personality Steve Miggs. He's on a top rated
morning show in Seattle, bj and Miggs on KISW, the

(38:29):
rock station. He's a big wrestling fan going back to
the eighties. WWE always books guests on his show, and
he'll be on there to talk about his experiences on
that side of things, being a radio media person dealing
with WWE and also a longtime fan who have seen
a lot of ups and downs in the industry and

(38:50):
in this wrestling business over the year. So he'll be
joining Jim Valley tomorrow Jim guest hosting, and then Thursday,
I'll be back at five eastern with Sean xpoc Waltman,
one of our favorite guests on the live cast. It's
been too long since he's been on, and then at
seven eastern. We're all over the place timeslot wise, but
seven eastern on Friday, it'll be Bruce Mitchell and Travis

(39:10):
Bryant breaking down the week in wrestling and giving a
final discussion for previewing the MSG show on Saturday night.
All right, let's go back to the full lines and
go to eight four five next, and then on deck
will be six one, seven and seven eight four five.
Please state your name and where you're calling from. Hey,

(39:31):
Tim from Poughkeepsie. What have you got for Jason me today?

Speaker 11 (39:34):
Well, it's basically my comments. Last question with regard to
the terrible ball rating and what effect does the network
have on the rating? Myself, I haven't watched an episode
of Law and probably Die month, but I still watch
every paper. So while term it's the network hurting the ratings, that's.

Speaker 1 (39:55):
A fair question. Jason is giving people a million of
your viewers access on demand to so much content and
then promoting Hulu and you know, the Hulu replay of
Raw and giving people that you know that that knowledge
that they can get their fill of wrestling and really
see the biggest matches once a month for a reasonable

(40:17):
flat fee. Is that part of the reason ROB ratings
are going down? And if that's the case, is WWE
talking themselves into thinking that it's okay. It's not ideal,
but it's okay because at least these million people are
who aren't maybe aren't watching raws diligently, are still giving
them ten bucks a month.

Speaker 2 (40:32):
I don't think that's a cause. I don't think there's
you know, of that million. I just don't think there's
enough to really make it an issue for WWE. I'm
sure there's others, but I just don't think there's there's
really enough. And I just wonder too, with three hours
the show being three hours in people, especially during football season,
maybe choosing to watch football live because that actually is

(40:55):
DVR proof and choosing the DVR raw. So many of
those people either just you know, speed through the show
and they count if they watch it in a certain
enough time. But how many of them just kind of
watch it through leisure, Maybe they watch later in the week,
or maybe they just don't watch it at all.

Speaker 1 (41:09):
Way, maybe they wait to listen to whether the show
was good or read about whether the show was good. Yeah,
and then DVR and speed did the good parts WWE
with a three hour, ten minute show, And that was
something they did of their choosing, which I thought, and
I put my name under bold headlines saying that it
was to a degree the beginning of the end for

(41:30):
Raw unless they came across, happened across and did every
new breakout stars and did everything right. And they've hardly
had any of that happen. That it was going to
be real bad for Raw, and it has been. And
there's all kinds of reasons I wrote about at the
time and have talked about ever since, the idea of
people sitting through three hours where there's only three or

(41:53):
four segments at best that feel must see because they've
done such a bad job. Actually they've done an effective
job diminishing everything else.

Speaker 13 (42:00):
You know.

Speaker 1 (42:01):
It's as Bruce Mitchell calls it, it's the mid cart Era,
and it's the mid Cartra by design. I don't think
WWE management would fully admit it, but they don't want
a lot of people who can go to them and
say I'm responsible for your success, so they've dumbed down
everything too. It's all about the brand. I wrote this
editorial at Wade Keller dot com last week, my blog
about how last week's Raw was evidence of Stephanie McMahon

(42:25):
being the face of the brand and the decisions that
are made in terms of how that show was presented
and what segments were presented exposed that WWE is more
concerned about promoting the brand than promoting the wrestlers and wrestling.
And I think that while Stephanie McMahon might eat, sleep
and breathe the WWE logo and the brand that she

(42:47):
has and her family, has lost sight of the fact
that people are brand loyal because of the product that
it features, and they're not loyal to the brand because
it makes them filthy rich and it's how they keep
score about their power, success and richness and fame. Fans
watch a show because it's worth their time, and they

(43:07):
get loyal to a brand because they enjoy the product,
and WWE has seemed to lose sight of that, and
Stephanie is a big part of the problem as the
brand ambassador. There's too much about raw that's about building
the charitable greatness and generosity of WWE, and it's not
done so just in passing well, there's this great product

(43:27):
wrapped around it. It's almost seems like the top priority.
So it just continued major issues for them. I don't
even know what the original point was, but Tim, thanks
for the call.

Speaker 14 (43:40):
I'm Chris Maitland and I'm Justin McClelland we host Wrestling
Coast to Coast, where we scour the wrestling scene to
find the best wrestling from the smallest places.

Speaker 15 (43:49):
There are thousands of matches happening every week, so Wrestling
Coast to Coast is here to discover the men and
women who could be big time stars in a few years.

Speaker 14 (43:56):
There are plenty of podcasts to voters to w W
and aw well what's happening in the armories and gymnasiums
local wrestling hotspots around the country.

Speaker 15 (44:04):
We can't wait to help you find the true hidden
gems of the wrestling world. Plus, you can hear Chris
complain about bad referees and.

Speaker 14 (44:10):
Justin bemoaning dogpolefins.

Speaker 15 (44:12):
Don't forget my fetal search to see a blue Thunderbomb
win a match.

Speaker 14 (44:16):
How can I like? The name says we cover the
hottest independent promotions from around the country, such as Prestige Action,
West Coast, Pro, Revolver, and Beyond Wrestling.

Speaker 15 (44:25):
Actually, Chris, I think we stick pretty much to wrestling.

Speaker 14 (44:28):
No, I mean Beyond Wrestling out of Wooster, Oh Right.
Our show's part of the PW Torch Daily cast lineup
and typically drops on Thursdays. Search PW Torch in your
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Speaker 1 (44:54):
I'm gonna move swiftly here to our next call six
one seven and then two five one six one seven.
Thanks for holding. Please state your name in the city
you're calling front them.

Speaker 10 (45:02):
Hi, this is Anthony from Boston. How's it going today?

Speaker 1 (45:05):
Doing great? Thanks? Anthony? What have you got for us?

Speaker 12 (45:08):
I seem to remember Kevin Nash was blamed for low
ratings back when he had a title run in the.

Speaker 10 (45:15):
Nineties before the nWo stuff.

Speaker 12 (45:17):
Do you guys think Rollins is going to get buried
and blamed for the low ratings during this period?

Speaker 1 (45:24):
Take that first. Jason and I have some thoughts too.

Speaker 2 (45:27):
We seem to get that question every week, and it's
a fair question, but I don't think it's going to happen.
Could they do a title think could they see that
as something that would spark And for sure, I don't
think they're pointing the finger at Seth Rollins. I think
some of it may be weighed that he's a little
too closely attached storyline wise to tripulation.

Speaker 1 (45:44):
Stephanie, Yeah, I think Seth Rollins the person, the person
playing that and all of the talent that Seth Rowlins
has in the ring on the microphone is not to blame.
It's not his limitations as a performer that should be blamed.
I think it's the way that he's positioned, the way
that he has booked, the overexposure. I mean, there's very

(46:04):
few wrestlers who could who could be effective with as
much TV time as Seth has, even if he's been
being promoted well. But he's not being promoted well. He's
being promoted as a child being talked down to by McMahon,
Royalty and Kin and they're a little too effective at it.

(46:25):
Seth's character is not a world champion character. It's a
fourth from the top heel who's being positioned to break
away from the nasty heels a year and a half
or two and a half years from now as a
breakout babyface who's come into his own. But you're not
going to draw ratings with Seth being positioned and treated
the way that he is and then being put in

(46:46):
a main event and expecting fans to think that he's credible,
Anthony anything else for us?

Speaker 12 (46:55):
One other quick question, who do you think wins in
a fight between Bruce Mitchell and Todd Martin.

Speaker 1 (47:00):
I have not met Todd Martin in person, so therefore
I'm going to predict Todd Martin. Jason.

Speaker 2 (47:07):
Bruce is a dirty cheater. I have no doubt that
if he were losing, he would just like find some
dirt or something that's throwing Tod's eyes and destroy him
that way.

Speaker 1 (47:16):
I think anyone who has interviewed as many top MMA
fighters and been ringside at as many big UFC fights
in media row as Todd Martin has an advantage from
just seeing martial arts mixed martial arts up close. I mean,
Bruce has been to his fair share of MMA events
in media row too, but I think Todd probably just
threw us. Moses would have the advantage. And he's twenty

(47:37):
years younger and that helps too.

Speaker 2 (47:39):
All Right, I would like to find out.

Speaker 1 (47:42):
I will not be sanctioning that fight. Let's go to
two five one and then eight one to five after
that two five one. Thanks for holding. Please state your
name in the city you're calling from.

Speaker 10 (47:51):
HI.

Speaker 16 (47:52):
This is Brian from Alabama. Hey, Brian, thanks for I
think you'd have to I think you'd have to watch
out for Bruce if he pulls out a squeeze there.
You know, you say that like the air of k
fabe is dead, But by the end of all, I
was really really believing that Seth and Kin we're both
full time employees with an HR department and possible benefits

(48:18):
and this whole corporate influence, you know, I guess it
appeals to some faction of the audience and it keeps
people coming back, But otherwise, do you think we could
ever elevate maybe a performance evaluation to maybe the main
event of a pay per view anytime soon.

Speaker 1 (48:40):
I like what you're saying, Brian. Yeah, the the HR
aspect we haven't talked about, Jason. But again, this I
think shows something that bleeds over into the creative aspect
of the product, which is WWE is so everybody involved
in the production of the show is so now part
of a corporate environment, not an outlawe environment like pro
wrestling used to be, but a corporate environment, and it

(49:01):
bleeds over what they're thinking about this week is what
makes it into the creative discussion. And I just don't
think people tune into pro wrestling to watch a bunch
of wrestlers treated as employees who are being controlled, who
are being controlled by corporation executives who are trying to

(49:25):
influence and keep them in line. I think that people
tune in and admire and watch pro wrestling and pro
wrestlers because they're seeing something that is an escape from
that world that they just got done spending eight and
a half hours in earlier in the day, Jason.

Speaker 2 (49:41):
I miss Wanley Carbo just being, you know, losing his mind.
There's going to be fines and suspensions, the classic line,
and they just seeming like things are completely out of
control and he's doing everything he can just to maintain
some level of control of the AWA. I wish we
had that in WWE. I wish we had that in TNA.
I just I'm all forgetting the owners off television. And

(50:04):
I mean, I do think Triple H can be that
babyface voice of you know, pro WW. We have said
that many times because we've seen him do it effectively
at the NXT level. But I'm just at the point
where I don't need to see the McMahons on my television,
and I don't need to see Dixie Carter on my
television anymore. I don't need to see general managers. I
don't need to see any of that nonsense. It just
become a crutch. Let's put the emphasis back on the wrestlers.

Speaker 1 (50:27):
Thanks Jason. Yeah, yeah, I the idea that to WWE
is run as a corporation in real life does not
mean that needs to be the framework for how they promote.
And when you get a cheesy HR rep on there,
I mean, it's just it's just not.

Speaker 2 (50:41):
What you say.

Speaker 10 (50:42):
HR.

Speaker 2 (50:42):
What is that Standford weight? I'm not quite sure Stephanie
told me last night and I just can't remember.

Speaker 1 (50:49):
All right, you'll let's google it.

Speaker 2 (50:52):
I guess I will home run.

Speaker 1 (50:53):
Yes, yes, all right, let's go to eight one five
and the nine two nine eight one five. Thanks for
think state your name in the city you're calling from.

Speaker 4 (51:02):
Hey, this is the IP number, Jake from Auraura.

Speaker 1 (51:05):
Hey, Jake, good here from you Twitter follow Rolo.

Speaker 10 (51:07):
What have you got? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (51:10):
Thank you for the time twitch because that really helped
we did it for you.

Speaker 6 (51:15):
Yeah, thank you.

Speaker 13 (51:16):
My question, I don't want to talk about raw.

Speaker 5 (51:19):
Did you guys catch the NFT panel last night?

Speaker 16 (51:22):
After on the network.

Speaker 1 (51:25):
I did not. I was recording my h raw my
raw audio and I didn't get to it yet today.
But I'm actually want to ask you, Jason, if you
did see it.

Speaker 2 (51:33):
I'm in the same boat. I was in her hurry
last night because I had an important fantasy football matchup,
So NFL is not completely DBR proof. I record the
games on Mondays, but that's something I'll probably be checking
out tomorrow.

Speaker 1 (51:45):
Jake, should we be nervous or was it good?

Speaker 11 (51:49):
The most interesting thing I thought was Triculates.

Speaker 2 (51:54):
Answers to the Dubis Revolution.

Speaker 13 (51:57):
Really went in depth on it, and you kind of
I doesn't really believe what's going on on TV.

Speaker 7 (52:03):
That was really cool.

Speaker 11 (52:05):
The thing that I didn't like the most was Byron Saxton.

Speaker 13 (52:08):
I thought he was awful.

Speaker 17 (52:11):
I thought Seth Rollins took over the.

Speaker 11 (52:17):
His role pretty much. Seth was asking some really nice
questions and getting some good answers the other next to
you guys, that was really cool, but that was all
I had to talk about.

Speaker 1 (52:26):
So yeah, Jake, sorry we didn't get uh all right,
we sorry we hadn't watch it yet, but it is
something I definitely do do. Do you want to watch?
And I appreciate you providing a little h little inside.
Did you come away liking seth Rawlins as a person,
I assume he was out of character.

Speaker 11 (52:41):
Yeah, Yeah, he was really good, kind of talking about
the performance center and stuff.

Speaker 6 (52:46):
Yeah, he was revery likable.

Speaker 16 (52:47):
I think he'll be as a baby safe when he
turn Yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:49):
I think it's I think if I were WWE wanting
to draw money with Seth Rowlins as a heel, I
would not put him on a show being likable. That's
part of what I think is hurting WWE, and not
just intangible ways. It's it's hard to prove that I'm right, Jason,
but I really strongly believe that when you're featuring seth

(53:09):
Rawlins in likable roles like he was on Tough Enough
on the first or second episode, as a good nice
guy showing up to help the young people, it just
it just shatters that that that sliver of doubt that
you have that maybe this guy is portrayed this way
because he's really like this. I crack Steve Austin up
on the Steve Austin podcast when I said I want

(53:31):
seth Rollins. I want to believe that Seth Rowins is
so much like his character on t on TV that
when he shows up at the DMV every year to
renew his driver's license, that everybody there goes, oh God,
it's this guy again. Oh God, Like I want to
believe he's like that twenty four to seven. Don't There's
it's it's completely without benefit to break that image. But

(53:51):
I truly believe Jason. There's people running that company who
think everybody knows it's fake, so it the only time
that stuff matters is well basically now, you know, he
plays his role, but people know it's just fun. It's
like Stephanie on Twitter, I love playing a bad guy
on TV. You know, I mean it just they don't
get at all, or they don't believe at all that
it's that that it would be beneficial to help us

(54:15):
suspend our disbelief and give us just a chance to
believe that what we're watching is really what we're watching.
You know, you would never have John Stewart during the
run of The Daily Show go on some show and go,
you know, I lean Republican, but really I'm not all
that into politics. And my writing team just tells me
what to say and I read the teleprompter. You know
he would never say that, but you know, part of

(54:37):
John Stewart what he did on the Daily Show was performance.
You know, there were times he was up in arms
over something because it made for good TV, and when
the camera's cut, he probably was like, yeah, I don't
know did he believe me there? Because I really wasn't
feeling it, you know, because he's he's performing a comedy show.
He's not, you know, actually giving it impassioned speech about
everything he truly believes in. But he would never have
gone on Charlie Rose or interviewed with Stone and said,

(55:01):
oh yeah, sometimes when I give those impassioned speeches, I'm
really not even thinking about what I'm saying. And frankly,
sometimes I disagree with him. He would never say that
because it would be bad for ratings. So ww, he
needs to stop putting Seth Rollins out there on a panel,
even if he's the perfect person for it, completely undercutting
the character he plays on TV. That said, I do
believe that Jake is right. Seth's gonna make a very

(55:23):
good babyface someday. Steve Boston thought that after after SummerSlam
that he thought Seth was looking like a babyface. The
next big centerpiece babyface too, and so anyway, a lot
of these topics, by the way, we'll come up with
Sean Waltman on Thursday. He is in a position of
he is in a good position to analyze some of

(55:44):
the things I'm saying and give his thoughts on it.
I'm sure he'll have to bite his tongue a couple
of times being good friends with Triple H Paulaveck in
terms of how much you know, he shows his knowledge
of how frustrated Triple H might be with Vince McMann
on certain things. But you know, and I'm not saying
tripltrud agree with everything I've said on today's program, but
I think he probably agrees with me more than Vince

(56:05):
on the things that I disagree with Vince on, And
I base that a lot on what he says, what
I hear behind the scenes, and the tone of NXT
as a brand. So you know, there's hope in that regard.
But how much lower do the ratings get before somebody
else gets a voice. Anytime you're watching WWE Raw or
SmackDown or AW Dynamite in particular, send us an email

(56:28):
if you've got thoughts on the show or a topic
you want us to address or a question for us.
Wadekeller Podcast at pwtorch dot com. Wadkeller Podcast at pwtorch
dot com. If there's anything else going on in pro
wrestling that you want us to address on our main
podcast during our mailbank segments, that same email applies Wadekeller
Podcast at pwtorch dot com. We invite that interaction. Let

(56:50):
us know what you think of what we're saying, and
let us know what you want us to talk about
and ask us specific questions. Wadekeller Podcast at pw toorch
dot com. All right, let's go next to nine to
nine as promise, and then five five, nine and nine
nine two nine. You are live on the show city
you are calling from. Okay, what have you got for Jason?

Speaker 18 (57:17):
Well, uh, all I got is it's like really embarrassing,
like how they be booking like this good superstar, like
a sorrow my last week they're having against Big.

Speaker 17 (57:28):
Sure just to make the Big Show look good for
the for the for the special on Saturday night, and
then you know they have Mark Henry, you know, being
decimated by Big Show again and then he comes. So
I don't get it like this guy one day he
acts like a baby phase in and he acts like
a bad guy. And you know, I don't see the
poet of bringing you know, like new superstar because they

(57:51):
don't know what to do with them, Like they keep
putting over these old guys instead of putting the future superstar,
Like Kevin Owens. I don't thing what happened last week
last night?

Speaker 6 (58:02):
Like what was that all about?

Speaker 17 (58:03):
Like one man in match with Russa, Like what was
that all about?

Speaker 10 (58:06):
I wasn't barassing.

Speaker 1 (58:08):
I feel like I got thanks Jonathan the Yeah, the
Kevin Owens russap match was interesting. I mean, they're not
ready to have either of the guys go baby face.
Bob Becklan wrote about this in his book about how
if you have a face face or a heel, he'l
matchup that you always have to be careful because fans
tend to choose sides and sometimes a wrestler will embrace
that and you know, go a little heel. He talked

(58:29):
about how Jack Briscoe was a good NWA champion, where
Bob Becklan politically, some people on the NWA committee in
the seventies didn't think he'd be a good NWA champion,
because an NWA champion needed to go to territory to
territory defending the world heavyweight title against whoever the top
star in that territory was. And it might be a
face or a heel. So even if you were largely
a heel, you might have to play a baby face

(58:50):
against the territory's top heel or if you were largely
or vice versa. And that is something that Ric Flair
was effective at and and and so when two heels
go against each other to get back to last night,
you don't want them to be in the ring too
long to the point that fans are forced to basically
take sides if you're not ready to turn one of
them babyface. But Jason, it was a match that just

(59:12):
came out of nowhere and remind me to talk about
Dolphin next. But what did you think about the decision
to throw that out there with a little bit of
a backstory about what happened on on SmackDown last Thursday.

Speaker 2 (59:22):
Well, yeah, I mean that's the thing, there is a
little bit of a story to it. They actually I
was surprised when they acknowledged It's not the first time
that Kevin Owens has walked out on Russeph because they
seem to have forgotten it before because they keep teaming
them up together. But I mean it was the most
compelling part of Raw trying to like, Okay, I think
it's just going to be something goofy, And as soon
as you saw a Rye Back on commentary, you had

(59:45):
to have a feeling like, Okay, this is how it ends.
But it's like this is different, what's going on here?
And so for that, you know, until we saw going
into that commercial break, they had me, they had me interested.
But yeah, if you're not going to turn one of
them then there, it really couldn't be more than what
it was, which is I think a setup for another
tag match and involving those two against Dolphin and Rye Back,

(01:00:09):
and I'm guessing Wade this time it's Russeph walking out.
I'm Kevin Owens.

Speaker 1 (01:00:14):
Who do you take in a endurance contest, a cardio contest,
Ryback or Kevin Owens.

Speaker 2 (01:00:19):
Kevin Owens not even close in a second.

Speaker 1 (01:00:22):
And if I'm Kevin Owens, I'm pissed off because they're
they're making him go out on TV and talk about
how fat and out of shape he is, and if
I'm not mistaken, he just went out there and had
some really long matches, world class matches with a pretty
wide array of wrestlers over you know, since he arrived
in WWE, but especially John Cena. That's not a guy

(01:00:42):
with cardio problem. And w IF Vince McMahon thinks that
Kevin Owens can't be a star because of his gut
or they think that he should be getting in better
shape now that he's you know, on the main roster,
if that's being used against him because there are some
politics in in some clicks in WWE who think haven't
got pushed too fast, too quickly. They're just they're hurting themselves.

(01:01:05):
I mean it's it's you know, Todd Martin on the
Fix after Owens lost the rubber match at John Cena
was just in ramp mode. I mean, he just he was.
He felt so strongly that a guy like Kevin Owens
doesn't come along all that often. And when when you
need to take that opportunity, when you aren't overflowing with hot,
young rising talent that are already over in draws, when

(01:01:26):
somebody like Kevin Owens comes along with his seasoning and
his maturity. You need to just go go with him
at the expense, the small expense of having John Cena
lose two to one in their series, and they just
be so much better off. As Jonathan talked about if
Cizarrow was getting a more serious push, someone brought up
Wade Barrett earlier, if Wade Barrett was in a position
where he seemed to be on a journey upward, having

(01:01:47):
a career resurgence, and if Kevin Owens was hot on
the John Cena feud after the John Cena feud and
kept hot and they weren't having Kevin Owens apologize and
explain away his gut and having ride back on commentary
talking about his conditioning. Vince McMahon might think that people
see someone like Kevin Owens and thinks thinks he has
no endurance. But everybody else in the world looks at

(01:02:07):
somebody with Ryebeck's musculature. Everybody else in the world looks
at that and says that guy's gonna conk out before
Kevin Owens does. Especially people, especially those people watching Raw
who have seen both guys wrestle. It's so out of
touch to have on commentary Ryeback making fun of Owen's endurance.
It was just one of those headshaking moments someone brought

(01:02:29):
up Byron Saxton. I loved when when they brought up
the ring collapsing Big Show on Big Show, when Lesner
back and O three on SmackDown, and Byron Saxton all
proud looks at it the camera and goes, I remember
that that. That was like his one contribution to Raw
last night is going I remember when that happened. I
felt like patting him on the head and going, good, good, Byron.

(01:02:50):
I'm glad you remember that. It was so proud of
himself that he remembered that, you know, I just Byron. Anyway,
I'm getting horse from from the show that hasn't happened
in a while. Let's let's go to five five nine
and the nine five to one, and then two five
to one, five five nine. Thanks for holding. Please state
your name and where you're calling from.

Speaker 3 (01:03:09):
Hey, this is Steve from Fresno.

Speaker 1 (01:03:11):
Hey, Steve, thanks for calling. What have you got for
us today?

Speaker 10 (01:03:13):
Yeah? Two really quick things.

Speaker 3 (01:03:15):
The little ratings with that kind of urged WWE to
bring Daniel Brian back in two. With the rumors of
Carlela coming back, if he does find Do you see
him answering the John Cena Open Challenge on the first
night and winning the championship like you did ten years
ago for some synergy?

Speaker 1 (01:03:32):
All right?

Speaker 4 (01:03:33):
Cool?

Speaker 1 (01:03:34):
Carlito's first topic was your I'm sorry was your first topic? Steve,
I met rita Dona.

Speaker 10 (01:03:38):
Just low ratings? Bring him back?

Speaker 1 (01:03:41):
Daniel Brian, Brian, that's right, Yeah, thanks, Jason Packle, either
or both of those, and then I'll coming after.

Speaker 2 (01:03:47):
Yeah, sure with Daniel Brian. If they really feel that
there's a head trauma issue there, then I would hope
that they don't change their minds because of the ratings.
Could they bring him back in a non wrestling Sure,
but I would really hope that that wouldn't play a
factor in their decision. If that's if he's not caught
up in some silly political thing over the lawsuits and

(01:04:09):
things like that.

Speaker 11 (01:04:11):
So I.

Speaker 2 (01:04:13):
The second, as far as Carlito goes, I you know,
he didn't. It was kind of a rocky relationship their way,
and I just don't know that they're going to immediately
put that kind of trust in him. Could they bring
him out as like a surprise challenger for seeing as Sure?
Take the US Championship Night one. It's a way to
give him an immediate boost and make him a player. Sure,

(01:04:35):
I just don't know if they would have that type
of trust in him right out of the gate.

Speaker 1 (01:04:38):
No, And I don't think it solves the issue of
what the image that you're giving off when people tune
into your program. You know, when people tune into your
program and see stars from ten years ago, I think
you're sending the wrong message as far as it goes, well, yeah,
I mean Carlito can come in. The resting of reported

(01:05:00):
that ww offered him a deal, but it was too
low to entice him. You know, Carlito had definite outside
the ring traits that multiple ones that led WWE to
not really feel that they should invest in him at
that time. There were some maturity issues and other things,
and he was really super talented, but seen as somebody
who gave off certain vibes behind the scenes that management

(01:05:23):
didn't like. But he was super talented and charismatic. But
I don't know that having him come back as a
surprise US title challenger and beating Cina, I don't think
you should do that if the only reason you're doing
it is well, it parallels history ten years earlier. Like
you know, Bruce is talking about this. You don't just
do things because it happens to be the anniversary. Oh yeah,
I have Undertaker on Summer's at Survivor series because it's
a twenty fifth anniversary of his debut. You do things

(01:05:44):
because it'll make money for you. You don't do things
because it reflects what's happening in real life. You don't
do things on TV because it's an anniversary date. You
do things because it makes sense and it's a bonus
if it reflects real life. It's a bonus if there's
some anniversary that you can add add to the mix
of your en now this of it. But don't do
something just for those reasons. That said, if they can

(01:06:05):
meet Carlito's price and he's ready to be a responsible
contributor to the product on and off air, then I mean,
I'm fine with it. But I think having Cain and
Big Show in the Dudleys and then Carlito also, you're
sending a message and I think that that offer would
better go to guys that WWE could use their machinery

(01:06:25):
to turn into big stars, you know, by putting people
on TV who weren't on the air ten years ago
or fifteen years ago.

Speaker 19 (01:06:40):
I'm Kelly Wells, host of PWT Talks NXT, the longest
running NXT podcast anywhere. Join me along with Nate Lindberg,
Bruce Lee, Hazelwood, and special guests, live every Tuesday night,
just minutes after NXT, where we cover the good, the bad,
and the ugly on the way to becoming a star
in WWE. Check us out live on YouTube or stream

(01:07:00):
later wherever you get your podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:07:10):
All right, Daniel Brian, I'm with you. Don't bring Danny
Bryan back and the rating should have no bearing on
whether they bring him back or not. It should be
purely his health. All right, Let's go now to uh nine.
State your name and where you're calling from.

Speaker 7 (01:07:25):
Yeah, what's up, wading Jason? This is Mike be from SOCO.

Speaker 2 (01:07:28):
Have it going, guys, going great?

Speaker 7 (01:07:30):
I get to my comments before I get to my comments, worker, guys,
I heard you guys talking about Kevin Owens. My wife
will sit down occasionally and watch wrestling. Doesn't really have
much other to say about wrestling other than she loves
the Bella. She watches Total de List Shocker. But she
actually asked me today, who is that guy?

Speaker 10 (01:07:44):
Who?

Speaker 7 (01:07:44):
But I told her Kevin O when she said she
absolutely hates him, And now every time he comes on
TV she has to make it a point to tell
me she absolutely hates him. She's not even talking anymore.
She just takes him.

Speaker 1 (01:07:55):
That's good, that's what you want.

Speaker 7 (01:07:56):
Yeah, it isn't get you really wrestling. And she never
comments and every time she sees him, it's a passing comment.

Speaker 1 (01:08:04):
Oh, I know, what would that.

Speaker 6 (01:08:05):
Do to her?

Speaker 1 (01:08:06):
Let me, I'm gonna what would that do to her
image of him if after saying that, they showed a
video package of him doing charity work for Connor Secure.

Speaker 7 (01:08:13):
Knowing my wife would be like, what a sweetheart, But
my wife, I'm.

Speaker 1 (01:08:18):
Just saying, it's good to have someone whose character you
can believe in. Don't contradict it needlessly with video packages
and PSAs and patting themselves on the back of the
corporate charity work. Only put people out there doing charity
work where it fits their honor character. All right, go ahead,
I know you have a point to me.

Speaker 7 (01:08:34):
I totally agree two things in one question. I'm saying
one good, one bad. I really liked the Big Show
versus Black as a high video, but that's probably not surprising.
W does a wonderful job with their you know, their
high videos.

Speaker 11 (01:08:45):
Usually.

Speaker 7 (01:08:46):
The second thing is, I guess there's proof of a
devil's revolution after all, you guys last night, Charlotte, you
know a champion lost clean in the ring quote unquote,
so I guess you know, being one week champion now
makes her, you know, ready for the set rollins, even
in terms of losing non title matches. And the question, Wade,
I wondering if I could ask you a question. It
was kind of something you said on the ten years

(01:09:06):
ago audio VISP side of things, and I think it
kind of ties into the ratings today. Anyways, I was
listening to your ten years ago audio the other day
on the VIP side and mentioned how Pants was unsure
what the Chapelle Show was mainstream pop culture in general,
I believe, he said a wrestler, and Orlando Jordan I
think should have wrote it down, said he enjoyed it
actually with him being seventy. Now, with the ratings being

(01:09:28):
in two point three three, can you can see anything
in the near future, Saidivility. We could potentially do.

Speaker 9 (01:09:33):
I know.

Speaker 7 (01:09:33):
I'm putting you guys on the spot. I'm asking me
for gimmicks our angles right here. But they can do
that utilize pop culture more. I mean, I know they
did stuff with The Daily Show being thirty, being in
that eighteen to thirty four demographic. I would like to
see a lot of more, you know, things that are
kind of catered to by enjoying wrestling as well, not
necessarily the same things done.

Speaker 5 (01:09:48):
Over and over and over again.

Speaker 6 (01:09:50):
I mean died Okay, Yeah.

Speaker 7 (01:09:52):
I mean maybe rast the other day soon you made
a comment about the Matt mouls Morgan some stuttering give
at the other day so as well on the ten
years ago audio. So I mean, I guess I know
I'm this family guys, but I'm just wondering if you
think they can do anything that kind of you know, yeah,
not repeat what they've been doing ten years ago.

Speaker 1 (01:10:07):
Yeah, okay, no, absolutely, Yes, A good topic. And I
think one of the things they could do is just
put Corey Gray's on Color commentary instead of JBL and
having some young cool people on the air giving off
a vibe that represents the brand is better. I mean, Jason,
I'm not you know, if JBL was doing an awesome

(01:10:29):
job on Color Commentary and enhancing the product. The way
he looks in his age would be irrelevant, but unfortunately
he's not bringing a lot to the table other than
I like it, you know, an occasional reference to World
Class Champion wrestling in the mid eighties, I like that.
But otherwise he's the voice of Vincement Mann on the
air for the most part. And when he just sits

(01:10:50):
there and looks into that camera and smiles as Cole
and Byron are saying their things, it's that that's not
and again it's it's you know, I'm not I speak
out against Byron Saxton being on the air purely for
cosmetic reasons. This isn't about who's good looking, and it's
not even ages because I tout Jim Ross coming back.
I just did talked on Sunday on the way Keller
Hotline for VP members about why Jim Ross would make

(01:11:12):
a big difference if they brought him back. It's not
the only solution to all their problems, but it's a
big one. So it's not just about age, but there
is something about a color commentator giving off a vibe
of being younger and plugged into pop culture given wwwe's
target market. So yes, but I don't have plugging into
pop culture on my top five, maybe even my top
ten list of immediate changes that I would make to

(01:11:34):
the product to improve. Adjason that said, you do want
to have a quotient on a WWE product that's pretty
high of of references to current, not decades old pop culture.

Speaker 2 (01:11:48):
Well, I think the point you make about Graves is
certainly fair. I think that would help. I say, the
biggest issue right now is the way they're holding back
guys that the actual wrestlers who fit that same description.
Neville means nothing, Kevin Owens is a mid card guy.
Cizarrow is just whatever Cizarrow is. There's the only guy

(01:12:11):
right now that is in a meaningful role, in my
opinion is Seth Rollins, and he is being cast poorly
and being made to look like a clown and a
puppet for Tripleation Stephanie. And he can't really hang with
the state the name from the past. He needs help
to get by. They need to look at the success
of NXT, and I know they think, well, that's just
that internet savvy crowd. I don't think that's the case.

(01:12:34):
I think I think that would work on the grand scale,
on the big stage. I should say, if they were
to go with the full on youth movement and start
showcasing that NXT talent the way they're showcased in NXT,
you do that on RAW. You don't bring them up
and then just have them lose to John Cena and
then just be lost in the mid card shuffle. Bring

(01:12:56):
these guys up with the purpose and get everything you
cannot them. Make them your featured players. And I really
think you will bring in a younger demographic. I think
WWE will seem cool again. But in order to be
going to pop culture, this is a company that is
lost touch. I fear what they would think is cool
pop pop culture.

Speaker 1 (01:13:15):
I agree. I Sasha Banks somebody who would who would
be when you watched her on NXT the last couple
of years as a heel. I mean she was, she
was young, She gave off a cool vibe as a
heel or face, She felt a contemporary character, and I
just think she's been defined down now in a way
that's going to take a lot of effort to rebuild her,
you know, just the way you know, if you're trying

(01:13:36):
to capitalize on ron a Rouse and the women's soccer
team and all the things Stephanie touted. You don't take
somebody as ultra talented and a polished ready just turnkey act,
turnkey main event act like Sasha Banks and define her
down and put her in line behind the Bella's and
Alicia Fox and Charlotte and Page. You have to put

(01:13:59):
her front and center. Uh, if you appreciate what she has,
and I think they've they've lost that too. So yeah,
the seeming more cool and connected to pop culture. A
big part of that is putting people who are younger
and cooler on the air. You know, it was a
big thing that that that Scott Hall, Kevin Nash, Sean Waltman,
Brett Hart, Shawn Michaels that they all pushed for in

(01:14:21):
the New Generation campaign. After w W, we lost a
lot of the older wrestlers, Uh to w CW in
retirement and Scandal and Andy. They need some cool, young
people with a voice and to give this show a
makeover and to give the vibe. It gives off a
makeover and symbolically and content wise. I'm not calling for

(01:14:42):
JBL's job to pick on him. I'm just saying there's
a lot of people out there who can be the
face and voice of your company who can help keep
things a little get make things a little more cool.

Speaker 10 (01:14:52):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:14:52):
And in the demo that you're looking for, and that's uh,
that's just JBL's not count it, nor's Jerry Lawler. And
that's base that Byron Saxton is taking up is just
I don't think it's worth the time it takes to
roll the chair out for him to sit on at ringside.
I mean, he's just not contributing. So ww's announced team
could definitely use a shake up. I'm glad Rich Brennan's

(01:15:13):
on SmackDown and not Cole and he's doing a good job,
and it just it's good to not have Cole on
that many hours a week anyway. But anyway, we're hey.

Speaker 2 (01:15:22):
Wait real quick, you mentioned Ronda Rousey, and correct me
if I'm wrong. I don't keep as close tabs on
UFC as you do, but I never heard anything about
Ronda Rousey winning her championship and then losing her next
fight because she was distracted and also standing around and
listening to everyone else talk while she just kind of
stood there for no good reason. I know.

Speaker 1 (01:15:44):
I mean, it's it's I want to call it pet peeve,
because that makes it sound like, well it bugs me,
but it's not really important, and I have plenty of those.
But but this is not just a pet peeve. You
can't make babyfaces look like idiots and expect fans to
respect them and cheer them. And way too many finishes

(01:16:04):
they're just lazy finishes are oh a babyface is? It
has the tension span of a cat where someone shines
a laser light on the wall and the kitten who
was obsessed with a with a feather now is obsessed
with a laser light. You know, you can't have your
babyface lead world champions in a position where they in
a position where they look like idiots and they're acting

(01:16:24):
like idiots.

Speaker 2 (01:16:25):
Well, and how about giving some buildings some momentum for Charlotte.
I would argue that even though she beat Nicki and
has the Devis Championship, she is no more over today
than she was before she won the title, because they're
already taking her out of the spotlight and putting Nicki
and Paige and Natalia and everyone in her place.

Speaker 1 (01:16:42):
Yes, exactly, Okay, let's actually let's take one quick break
and then we'll be back with a final couple of
calls before we wrap up the program. As a listener,
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Speaker 4 (01:17:34):
All.

Speaker 1 (01:17:35):
Right, back to the phone lines we go for the
final few minutes of the live cast, and we'll begin now.
I want to try to keep going at order here,
That's what I've been trying to do. We'll go to
two five to one, next two five one. Thanks for holding.
Please state your name and where you're calling from.

Speaker 6 (01:17:52):
Demetrius Mobile, Alabama.

Speaker 1 (01:17:54):
Hey, thanks, Demitrius, what have you got for us?

Speaker 10 (01:17:56):
Hey?

Speaker 6 (01:17:57):
I know this seems like a crazy question considering that
w W has a tremendous amount of young talent and
the main roster and NXC, but give me three guys
that you guys would like to see in the WWE me.
I would love to see Roger Strong because he's been
having some great matches lately well throughout his career. Really,
I would love to see Nakamura from New Japan because

(01:18:20):
that guy has the IT factor. And Moose, even though
Moose is little green, I think he has a tremendous upside.
So I was wondering if you guys can give me
your top three that you would like to see?

Speaker 1 (01:18:31):
All right? Cool? Yeah, good, good topic, Jason, Do you
have a top three that you can name?

Speaker 2 (01:18:35):
I Nakamura, o'coder or two guys from Japan that I'd
really like to see. And then I still would like
to see AJ Stiles get a run at some point.
I think Jeff Hardy is the most profitable of the
you know, potential free agency as far as early next
year is concerned.

Speaker 1 (01:18:52):
Yeah, I'd say I won't give top three because I
would need to put more time into it to make
sure that it's absolutely top three.

Speaker 9 (01:18:59):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:18:59):
But I think people who right now can make a
difference and inject some new life but have some experience
where they wouldn't just be projects, would be Nick Oldis Magnus.
Sean Waltman just had really good things to say about him.
He worked a tag match with him over the weekend,
who was a matter. Sean got hurt by the way,
but was not Magnus's fault. He was his tag partner.
And James Storm I thought was just phenomenal on impact

(01:19:20):
last week. I think he's been really really good as
a leader of his group, and I think he'd be
a great addition, just absolutely ready to just grab people's
attention on the microphone, and certainly he's good enough in
the ring. And yeah, AJ Styles. I think AJ would
fill a spot that has been missing since you know,

(01:19:40):
Daniel Bryn has been out as a veteran, polished, world
class undersized worker that you want to root for. So
those would be three guys that I think are just
their turnkey, their turnkey top guys to freshen up WWE instantly,
and I think they're the type of talents that are
developed enough that you work around them. You don't worry
about how they fit in, but you bring them in

(01:20:01):
as if you just sign them away from WSW. You know,
you pretend that you're in a Monday night wrestling war,
and you treat them like Vincent Man treated Brian Pillman
when he signed him as finally we acquired somebody. It
went this way instead of the other way, and we're
gonna make a big deal out of it and a
or heck they did that with Mark Merrow too.

Speaker 10 (01:20:18):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:20:19):
Treat them like a big acquisition. You're proud to have them.
Don't have them go on the air and talk about
how they're fat or lazy or don't have Cardio. Treat
them as big stars out of the gate. But yeah,
might I might come up with three different names if
you asked me tomorrow. To be honest, I think there's
some good talent out there that would contribute and freshen
things up, that should displace some of the stale talent
on the roster. Right now, all right, limited times, So
we're gonna ask everybody to go even quicker because I

(01:20:40):
want to get to a couple more calls here before
I wrap up. Four seven eight is up next, and
then seven to one eight on deck four seven eight.
Things for holding.

Speaker 4 (01:20:46):
Please state your name and where you're calling from, the
real from Georgia. And I have and I have two questions.
My first question is why do they do not Putake
seth Rawlings like they putake Roman Ray, even though I
think seth Rawlins probably could be the biggest.

Speaker 1 (01:21:03):
Star okay down the line.

Speaker 4 (01:21:06):
And my second question is with WWE saying that they're
a sports entertainment group and they do stuff like sports entertainment,
why they be so vain with the concussion protocols and
just tell us that people have concussions? Would I tell
us the stuff that they go through?

Speaker 10 (01:21:23):
And those are my two.

Speaker 1 (01:21:24):
Questions, Thanks gree. I don't think calling themselves sports entertainment
has anything to do with anything, because sports entertainment isn't something.
It literally isn't anything. It doesn't exist. It's just a
term that certa man used to try to sell advertising
on a syndicated network to advertisers who shied away from
pro wrestling. Sports entertainment is not different than pro wrestling.
It's just a different term that tries that that essentially

(01:21:46):
exposes the shame that the McMahon family have in being
promoters of what everybody else in the universe calls what
WWE is when they turn it on and watch it
on TV. So calling them selles sports entertainment literally has
nothing to do with their concussion policy. That said, because
they're a pro wrestling company that calls them spill sports entertainment,

(01:22:07):
whatever their description is. Yeah, I think they should be
more upfront about the situation with concussions and do more disclosures.
With the talent in the ring, Jason, nobody's forcing them
to say anything, so they're just going to say what
they want. I think they don't want people thinking about
the real damage that has done in these matches. I
don't think that that's something they want to draw attention

(01:22:28):
to unless it's an active wrestler who recovered from it.
You know, they're willing to sell John Cena break in
his nose because he was wrestling the next week, But
they don't want to talk about Sting or Daniel Bryan
because they're not wrestling the next week. They don't want
people to think that what's really happening could cause their
favorites to get hurt long term.

Speaker 2 (01:22:45):
And it's silly. I mean, we're seeing it right now
with the Viking player who suffered a concussion on Sunday.
These things happen in sports. And even though there is
you know, the the NFL, space is lost, who's just
like WWE is And I'm sure WWE is pre concerned
about the Will Smith concussion film is coming out as well.
But I just I don't understand why they're so reluctant.

(01:23:08):
I get they don't want to draw attention to it,
but I don't see what harm comes from that really,
compared to so and so towards ACL and is going
to miss nine months later, right.

Speaker 1 (01:23:20):
No, exactly. I think the giving off a sports vibe
is a good thing for pro wrestling, giving off more
of it, and part of that is is injury updates.
As far as Seth and Roman go, they protected Roman
more because they thought he was going to be the
lead babyface face of the company. He was everything Danny
Brian wasn't Danny Brin got in the way, and Roman
Rains was a guy that they're trying to push and
Seth was a guy who just turned into a really

(01:23:41):
entertaining utility guy that they ended up having to build
around because Danny Brian got hurt once he got hot
and they started to actually believe in him enough to
push him, and Roman rains flopped, and I say continues
to flop. So even though I think he has improved
in certain ways, I liked that he introduced a few
new moves that I hadn't seen him use before last night.

(01:24:04):
I thought that his promos the last couple of weeks
have not sounded like a little League dad scolding an
eleven year old boy who struck out at home Plate
because he was distracted by a kite and he stopped.
You know, he has a tone in the locker room
demeanor with Dean Ambrose that I liked. I think he's
made some strides, but it's he dug himself a big
hole and he's it's going to take a while to
dig him out of it, and I think a run

(01:24:24):
as a heel will be necessary for him to dig
out of it. But yeah, they don't protect Seth because
sessa utility heel who they think can talk his way
back into who can wrestle and talk his way back
into believability as a top act. Where Roman reigns, they
feel needs to be protected because he's green and fragile
and plays a different character.

Speaker 2 (01:24:43):
And let's face, Evince has never been great when it
comes to pushing Keel champion smaller.

Speaker 16 (01:24:48):
Type ninety second, A nice job with Brock.

Speaker 2 (01:24:51):
At times, and I think they did a good job
with Triple Wage until it just went overboard. Yeah, but
those are rare examples. Way I mean, it's Evince's He's
a guy that traditionally has a babyface on top, and
I think that's just his FOURT and I don't I
think if you asked Vince, he would probably think he's
done a wonderful job with seth rawlins. He's the champion.

(01:25:11):
How what more do you want?

Speaker 20 (01:25:13):
I know, I know, longing for some nostalgia or maybe
you want to learn some wrestling history. Don't miss the
nineties Past Cast. Every Friday on the PW Torch Daily
Cast Feed, Alex and Patrick will transport you thirty years
into the past by taking you through the Torch issue

(01:25:36):
from that very week. Follow news from the WWF and
WCW and all the happenings from across the wrestling industry
in real time as The Torch reported it thirty years ago.
That's the nineties pass cast every Friday on the PW
Torch Daily Cast feed.

Speaker 1 (01:26:00):
All right, seven eight, you're up next to the two
one oh, if we have time.

Speaker 10 (01:26:06):
Mike from Brooklyn, how you doing, fellas First and foremost,
I want to announce I will attempt tomorrow again to
become a member both of you know, p W TAUSCH
and Pro Wrestling Dot. I don't know every time, you know,
I get on with my you know, my credit card something, Hey,
why it goes happen? I will attend to tomorrow.

Speaker 2 (01:26:29):
By a boy.

Speaker 10 (01:26:31):
First couple of things. As I said last night on
a phone call, you know, with James and you, I
mean you guys pretty much covered off basis. That show
was very embarrassing and it was very insultant to the
human intelligence. I mean, it's just ridiculous. It to me,
it seemed like they time traveled and they went back
in time to the new generation era, that old circa

(01:26:55):
ninety five raw. It didn't make no sense last night.
It was very can be, very cartoonist, and it was silly.
The only thing we was missing was the goon man
tar He knuckle Ball Schwartz. But bigger than that, I
just wanted to get you, you know, chime in on
the Roman reigns, you know, timent. You know. One of

(01:27:15):
the callers suggested last night, you know a few, you know,
if not a hill term, maybe a few with Kevin Owens,
which I don't think is a bad you know, I
did at this point because I think he could learn
a lot from Kevin Owens. Like I think Kevin Owens
could you know, help him, you know, help him out
even more. And also I just want to get you,
you know, God's thoughts, like where do they because I

(01:27:37):
don't want to see Kane Ti TLC, So like where
do they go? You know with Steth rollins to the rumble?

Speaker 1 (01:27:46):
All right, thanks Mike. I got some opinions from Mike
there and two or three topics you can jump on
Jason and react to the last thing he said might
be one to grab onto, which is Seth after Caine,
but be for Triple H. I mean we got this
question much John Cena too. You know what's next for Sina.
I mean that's part of the issue right now is
there's not a lot of people on the undercard, on

(01:28:08):
the upper mid card of the undercard where you're excited
about the prospects of them rising up and facing some
of the established top guys, that that story is just
not there right now.

Speaker 2 (01:28:18):
To be told, No, it's because they trade wins and losses.
You know, there's just there's no attention being given to
the mid card. It's just filler in Vince McMahon's mind,
and he obviously focuses on what's on top and doesn't
think about tomorrow. The feud with Owens or Roman Reigns
scares me a little bit, just because if you want

(01:28:39):
Roman Reigns to get over the bulk of the fans
booing him sees strike me as the type of fans
who would cheer Kevin Owens their way, And I think,
you know that you're just kind of running into the
same problem you would have that they had at WrestleMania
last year.

Speaker 1 (01:28:53):
Yeah, I mean, I think the answer with Roman Rains
is turning him heel. I mean, I just I don't
think they have enough heels who are not on the
verge of getting cheered against Roman Reigns where you can
embarrass Roman Rains by putting them out there in a
losing situation. I mean, you're you're putting somebody out there,
right now who is perfect? I mean, there was a
an NXT promo somebody put up that I retweeted a

(01:29:15):
video of where he was playing a heel in NXT,
and it was just a great he'll promo, you know,
I mean, it was a really good he'll promo. He
was great playing that role. And I just don't they're
fighting aheadwind of somebody who naturally gives off the vibe
of a heel, and I just don't think they should
put a lot of effort into fighting that anymore. All right,
let's sneak in one last called two one to zero.

(01:29:37):
Please state your name and where you're calling from.

Speaker 13 (01:29:39):
Yeah, this is Eric from San Antonio.

Speaker 10 (01:29:41):
I've had secret.

Speaker 13 (01:29:42):
Things wondering if you knew more or less a return
date or time or Sammy Zane. And also when you
watch the NXT panel, you'll find that only one wrestler
is actually a full time NXC wrestler, with.

Speaker 2 (01:29:57):
One in his views.

Speaker 13 (01:29:57):
Thought, maybe that's kind of odd not having Sammy's Ain
or Tyler Breeze or even the Bailey on there.

Speaker 1 (01:30:05):
Oh yeah, okay, thanks sir. Last I heard on Sammy
was December Jason, have you heard any updates since then?
Different than that.

Speaker 2 (01:30:13):
The last I remember hearing it was early next year,
so you know, around the same time.

Speaker 1 (01:30:16):
I think, yeah, I think Royal Rumble would be probably
the time that you might look for him to come
back out. I think Sammy is a guy when he's
healthy who would be a real spark for WWE, And
if he were healthy, I think they'd be utilizing him
a lot right now, and I think he would have
been a difference maker. So I think he could have
filled that spot that that Daniel Brian vacated, either Daniel

(01:30:37):
Brian or Samy's, and I think would be really helpful
right now for the for their for the company. As
far as a panel goes, yeah, I mean, I think
they wanted to have a name brand panel, and if
they put people who have aren't as well known on
the panel, it might not have you know, people that

(01:30:57):
the Q and A might not have gone as well
with people not knowing the people on the panel. But
I mean, I think you could assemble a good second
panel with people who are full time. But I didn't
really it didn't jump out at me as like an
awful selection. Other than I don't think Seth Rowlin should
be put in a position to seem like a reasonable,
level headed, nice guy in public and anything sponsored by
WWB that airs on the network.

Speaker 2 (01:31:18):
Yeah, and you know, hey, wait for phase two. I'm
sure we'll do that again and you'll probably get well,
most of them will probably be up on the main roster,
but then it will be their turnway the people who
were left out of this one.

Speaker 1 (01:31:29):
Yes, all right, Thank you everybody for joining us here today.
We just had so many callers. I wanted to give
everybody a chance to events, so we went on the
long teller. Jason, how can people follow you on Twitter
at Pro Wrestling Net? Excellent? Thank you everybody for joining us.
Tomorrow Jim Valley hosting at six eastern and then Thursday,

(01:31:49):
I'm back at five Eastern with Sean Waltman XPOC and
then Friday at seven eastern Bruce Mitchell and Travis Bryant.
Hope you can join us live if you're listening to
us on delay and participate as a caller on one
of those shows and until next time on behalf of
Jason Powell of Pro Wrestling dot Net. This is way
Keller signing off. Invite you to email the show with

(01:32:16):
feedback or questions or comments. That email address is Wade
Keller Podcast at petewtorch dot com. That's Wadekeller Podcast at
PW toorch dot com. Also welcome your feedback on Twitter.
You can follow us on Twitter at PW torch and
follow me at the Wade Keller. That's at PW Torch
and at the Wade Keller.

Speaker 21 (01:32:37):
Searching for more great pro wrestling talk, then join me
Jason Powell host them the three weekly Pro Wrestling Boom Podcast.
Each week you'll hear the latest news and analysis from
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(01:32:59):
all your favorite second apps, or visit us directly at
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(01:33:32):
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