10 YRS AGO FLAGSHIP: Keller & Powell discuss WWE's rebound week, Roman's great week, Triple H, Rumble predictions, Adam Rose, Vince McMahon

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 2 (01:36):
Now.

Speaker 3 (01:37):
Pw Torch and Spreaker bring you the Wade Killer Pro
Wrestling Podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:46):
Ten years ago. This week on the flag Ship, I
was joined by Jason Powell Pro Wrestling dot Net and
we talked about a rebound week for WWE in terms
of ratings, poll responses, and overall good vibes after a
rough previous week. We also talked about Joman Rains's great week,
a look ahead to his rumble and WrestleMania options, and
much more about TLC and RAW. Then, in the previously

(02:06):
VIP exclusive after show, we continued the discussion about Raw,
including a review of insic Man's performance what was off
limits to Adam Rose on his Rose Rosebush segments, Curtis Axel,
things to look for on NXT Takeover and Roah's Final Battle,
and more with listener email topics sprinkled in. This originally
live streamed and dropped on December fifteenth, twenty fifteen, and

(02:29):
it is today's wad Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast ten years
ago Flake Ship Flashback for Sunday, December fourteenth, twenty twenty five.
Welcome to the p W Torch Live Cast. I am

(02:51):
Wade Keller, editor and publisher of the Pro Wrestling Torch
weekly newsletter since nineteen eighty seven, also editor of putorch
dot com, the website published starting in nineteen ninety nine,
and host of this The PW Torch Live Cast available
in iTunes and also at PW torchlivecast dot com and

(03:12):
you can subscribe on any popular podcast app on your iPhone,
Android device or iTunes. It is Tuesday, December fifteenth, twenty fifteen,
and what a week it's been. I have a feeling.
We went from complaining about an awful ending to raw
last week and a couple couples way below par editions.

(03:34):
A raw in fact a stretch of blowpartitions a raw,
but especially the last two and boy did things flip around.
A lot of people will ask when I'm complaining about stuff,
you know, though email or a post on Twitter, if
you hate it so much, why don't you quit watching?
Well because the weeks like this, duh. I mean, when
things are bad and you ignore it, things tend not

(03:55):
to get better. But when you things are bad, and
not only do people on the outside notice, but it
gets so obvious that people on the inside are willing
to take chances and shake things up and take drastic
measures or correct the course and some things that were
going wrong. That's when the complaining pays off, whether it's
external pressure or internal pressure. Buring your head in the

(04:19):
sand and saying, come on, if you love ww you
shouldn't complain when it's bad. You're not servicing WWE. It's
wrestlers or the fans. This is one of those weeks.
And I mean that internally, especially the yes men within
the company, you know, maybe validating the excuses for why
things weren't bad. Things turn around. Now, this is not
a long term turnaround. They pulled out a lot of

(04:39):
hot shots to turn things around in terms of fan response,
crowd response, TV viewership up to I think three point
eight million, up from about three point one million last week,
a giant jump in ratings and a lack of a
drop of the third hour too, by the way, So
a lot of good things to talk about, a lot
of interesting things to talk about in terms of what

(04:59):
happened from here. We're headed to Christmas in New Year's
but Rod doesn't fall on those specific dates. But we
do have the Slammies next week, then we have that
week in between Christmas and New Year's after that as
a first episode of twenty sixteen. It's the road to
WrestleMania informally begins at that point, and I think things
are gonna get really fun. I mean, I think Roman

(05:21):
Reigns turned a corner. He might turn back, but it
took a while, but I think he, even in Philadelphia,
got the crowd to accept him. Now, let's not exaggerate.
This was not the crowd reacting to Stone called Steve
Austin or heck, even Shawn Michaels at his peak, or
Brett Hart when he was at his peak as a babyface.
There's still some ground to cover, but this was a

(05:44):
big improvement, and they did some very deliberate things to
make it happen, including pulling the Vince McMahon card, and
that doesn't happen very often, and it's I think exhibit
A for why you don't overexpose major characters. And you
could say, well, Vince's sort of an exception, a standalone example.
Well two degree, Yes, you can't do it with everybody.

(06:05):
You can't have John Zen only show up twice every
eight years. You know he's in his full time prime.
But this appearance by Vincient Man created a buzz. It
kept people tuned in and I'd say helped Roman Reigns
get over. If you want to give us a call here,
this show is live. We're live five days a week
and sometimes six when we have a live postgame show.

(06:25):
You guys actually broke blog talk radio Sunday night. We
had hundreds of people call over the course of the
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on the air. I think there was over one hundred
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calling in, so I expect we're gonna have a lot

(06:46):
of phone calls in today's show. Also, thankfully we talked
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okay today. But nevertheless, we are live five days a week.
You can find us at pw torslivecast dot com. We
got an array of different hosts in different formats, although
they tend to be the same on the same day
each week. Tuesdays, I'm joined by Jason Powell offprowrestling dot Net. Thursdays,
I also host and It's Interview Thursday. Last Thursday a

(07:09):
must listen interview with Jim Ross. Speak of somebody speaking
truthfully and bluntly about WWE and what he felt needed
to be changed, and I think we saw some of
those changes on Sunday and Monday. I call it a
must listen two hour plus interview at Jim Ross. Really,
he's a renowned internet excuse me, a renowned podcast host
of his own. But it's fun turning the tables on

(07:31):
somebody like Jim and asking him questions. And we got
some great caller questions throughout the show and some great
email questions too, So check that out if you haven't yet.
Monday night following Raw, James Caldwell along with Pat McNeil
at the beginning of the show at least host the
post raw episode of the PW Torch Live Cast at
eleven thirty Eastern at the bottom of the hour after Raw.
Wednesday's Pat McNeil with an array of guests, all star

(07:52):
panels and wrestler guests. And then Fridays is Torch senior
columnist Bruce Mitchell and Travis Bryant of eastcoastcast dot com,
the sister podcast to PW Torch Live Cast, and you
can find them at east coastcast dot com. So that's
the lineup Monday through Friday, and then Sundays after major
pay per views. All right, let's bring Jason Powell aboard
and then after a brief discussion with him, we'll take

(08:13):
our first break and then we'll go to calls. So
stand by if you're on hold. Six four, six, seven,
one nine two eight is the number to call, and
be sure to push one on your touchdown phone when
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(08:34):
it's important you push one if you want to participate
in the show. All right, let's go ahead and bring
Jason Poul into the program. Jason, thank you for joining
me once again today. A better week of wrestling to
talk about.

Speaker 4 (08:45):
Yeah, finally it's and it's going to be a fun
week too, with NXT and Ring of Honor still yet
to come. This week kind of the last big week
of pro wrestling I think in twenty fifteen.

Speaker 1 (08:54):
Absolutely, this is uh, this is actually going to be
one of the bigger weeks. And if you count, I
mean week kind of ends with the newsletter deadline and
the live cast on Tuesdays, and then it kind of
feels like it begins ANEW on Wednesday, but really Sunday
two Saturday, Sunday to Sunday. However you want to look
at it, one of the best one week periods I
think we're in store for, assuming NXT takeover in ROH

(09:17):
live up to expectations. Your poll response over at Pro
Wrestling dot Net, Jason flipped, I mean, you had in
your poll the last couple of weeks remarkable negative poll responses.
It wasn't just us being negative, Jason, this we were
reflecting the larger wrestling fan base, at least those visiting
your website and our torch pole was similar, most people

(09:39):
giving the show basically a d orn f. This week
it flipped. I think it's in the seventy percent range
plus seventy plus percent range, might even be eighty giving
it a thumbs up. I think it would be hard
not to give last night's Raw thumbs up. Jason, how
much of a rebound did they make part one? And
how confident are you this is sustainable or a sign

(10:00):
of of perhaps momentum headed towards a rumble or do
you think maybe it's kind of a one time thing.
It's going to be hard to follow up on this
because it was sort of hot shoddy.

Speaker 4 (10:09):
Well, we're two weeks away from the Monday night football
season ending. That's going to be helpful for god knows
what reason. The Slammy Awards seemed to do okay, and
so I think that will help them as well. You know,
Christmas falls at the right part of the week for them,
so that last show of the year may do okay,
although it does go against.

Speaker 1 (10:27):
By the way, for scheduling Raw.

Speaker 4 (10:29):
Yeah, Yeahanta, it's all he's doing yes, but it does
go against a Monday night football game. I've been mistaken
about that. I'm used to the last week of the
year they're not being a game, but the regular season
actually goes into the new year, and so they have
until the end of the year. Every Monday they'll go
against a football game. And the last one, I believe
it's a pretty big one. I think it's Bronco's Bengals
or something along those lines, which is pretty big. But

(10:51):
I think once you get through that, they're in a
pretty good position. The Yes, they'll face some college bowl competition,
but really, as you said earlier, WrestleMania season begins now
they have things straightened out with Roman Reigns, they desperately
need to find a position some top heels. I think
Seamus did an admirable job. I don't think he's a
long term solution, and I think they're kind of they're

(11:16):
doing what they've what Hunter has said his role in
WWE is in case of emergency hit Glass and they
may not view it that way, but looking at the
lack of heels on that meaningful heels on that roster
right now, I think they are in emergency mode with
Triple h and trying desperately to get Roman Reigns over
and keep him over because if you take that, if
they don't have that card to playwaight, what are they

(11:37):
left with another shamous rematch.

Speaker 1 (11:39):
Yeah, that's the issue that I think we can flesh
out as time goes on here on the show. You know, yes,
they took some steps with Roman. Now who do they
have as heels who are healthy and can go? So yes,
all right, let's without any more delay, let's go to
our first break. We'll hear from some sponsors. When we
come back. We're going to start taking phone calls. You

(12:01):
can also email us. If you're listening live and aren't
able to call but want to participate, you can email
us at PW Torch Live Cast at gmail dot com.
We generally answer email questions in the VIP exclusive after
show for our respective members, but sometimes we do get
to some emails during the show, so and I made
an effort to do that with the Jim Ross interview
last Thursday, even though we had a lot of callers,

(12:22):
So don't give up on that. You can always drop
us an email too, but otherwise give us a call
six four, six, seven to one nine eight two eight.
While we're at break, you might want to check out besides,
of course paying attention to our sponsors because they make
the show possible, but also check out news stories. We
got news stories up on the condition of William Regal
leaving the NXT tour early. I'm sure that hurts with
the uh I mean NXT, his pet project being in

(12:46):
London and to have to leave early and not be there,
it's got to be heartbreaking. But he's got a medical
issue to take care of, not like threatening or anything,
but serious enough to take them off tour. Wade Barrett
updating his health and why he's been missing. Also in
our news feed at PW Torch, what happened after Rowin
off the air with Roman Reigns and other off air notes,
plus the season premier date for Total Divas. Aj Styles

(13:08):
talks about whether he's interested in TNA, an update on
excuse me in WWE I got ahead of myself There
also an update on whether TNA or how TNA's run
on Destination America is coming to an end. Some notes
on Rod's Twitter TV rating. Mario Ronaldo, the new host
of Smackdon I'm sure we'll get into that, talks I
think I'm excited about what he's saying, which is SmackDown's

(13:30):
gonna have a new identity. I don't know what they
mean by this, but it's going to be a mix
of pop music and alt music. I guess to use
Triple Aho's terminology because it's going to be a mix
of WWE and NXT and format. I want to talk
to Jason about that later. Why did Raymisterio join Luca Underground?
John Cena talks about the potential of his career winding down.
When will that happen? Under what circumstances? Triple h announces

(13:54):
some NXT tour dates in January. WWE has a sponsorship
with Coca Cola, which is huge. We've got some number
on TNA, on Destination America and on and on. So
it's absolutely worth going to pw torch dot com every
day bookmarket. There's a ton of compelling stories. James Caldwell
is the main reporter at that site, does a great

(14:14):
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pwtorch dot com Onto our sponsors, and we'll be back

(14:40):
with phone calls right after this. As a listener of
anytime you're watching WWE Rawers, SmackDown or aw Dynamite in particular,
send us an email if you've got thoughts on the
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(15:02):
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(15:23):
Podcast at pw toorch dot com slash Amazon instead, that's
pwtorch dot com slash Amazon. All right, we are back
on the show. Let's dive into phone calls. Jason Powell
from Progrestling dot Net, of course is my guest, because
it's Tuesday and we're talking. Mostly I think about the
TLC Monday Night Raw, pair of shows that had really

(15:45):
good reviews, most people rating in the polls that I've
seen online at PW torchprogressing dot net, especially rating it
a good show, not a great show. And then Raw
seems to be pretty close to a split between a
good and great show in terms of the reaction. So
we'll get our discussion going here and begin with six
one six, and then after that seven to seven oh

(16:06):
six one six. Please state your name and.

Speaker 5 (16:07):
Where you're come.

Speaker 6 (16:10):
Rapids.

Speaker 7 (16:10):
Can you come back to me in about five minutes?

Speaker 2 (16:12):
Please?

Speaker 1 (16:12):
Sure, no problem that happens, No problem, Eric, we'll come
back to you. Let's we'll take our first official proper
call here and let's put Eric on home at seven
seven seven to seven OZH. Thanks for holding. Please state
your name and where you're calling from.

Speaker 8 (16:27):
Jimmy from Atlanta, Georgia.

Speaker 1 (16:28):
Hey Jimmy, thanks for calling. What have you got for
Jason to me?

Speaker 8 (16:31):
I actually have three quick questions, don't want to take
too much time up. The first one being do you
think it was a mistake glinting Roman win last night
and not winning the night before.

Speaker 1 (16:42):
I'll three or you when I w Yeah, well, we'll
do one at a time. We get in trouble and
we take all three, even though we we enter that
process with confidence, and we end up thinking about questions
two and three and forget number one. Jason, I've heard
that before the last couple days, should Roman rains have
won at TLC, does it not matter as much in
the net or in a way does it matter more
to maybe give people that payoff the paying customers the path.

Speaker 4 (17:05):
Okay, it's something you don't want to do on a
consistent basis, that's for sure. But it's not something they've
done regularly. They've given away some undercard rematches and things
of that nature. But I think it's smart to have
this done in front of the bigger viewing audience, and
especially with the numbers they brought in last night for Raw,
which were substantial increases over last week.

Speaker 1 (17:26):
Yeah, I'm with Jason. I think when you're trying to
get Roman reigns over now, I'll tell you. I'll tell
you this if it so happened, And I mean, it's
not the way it is. But if it so happened
that Raw was on Sunday and TLC was on Monday
or something like that where the days were switched, I
would have had the title change on the pay per view.
I think it's not so much the audience size that
mattered to me in terms of voting for the title

(17:50):
change to be on Raw, but it was a sequence.
I think that you wanted to follow up TLC with
the beatdown of Triple H with the angle that they
did on Raw in building towards that main event throughout
those three hours. So yeah, I think, but you have
the benefit of you know, three point eight million, give
or take, people seeing the title change on Raw in

(18:13):
the main event. I don't know what the peak number
is for the show, but I suspect a higher than
the third hour average. So if people were impressed by
Roman Reigns, that was a good opportunity to show him
winning the match and getting in the mix with Vince
McMann Jason, I think does help elevate Roman quick Well,

(18:34):
I'll save that for later on. Let's go to the
second question from Jimmy.

Speaker 8 (18:39):
Okay, how did attribute troops work? And I know that
they've already pre recorded it, but all the championships were on,
like Dean Ambrose didn't have the title, and Roman Rains
didn't have a title. How will that work?

Speaker 1 (18:49):
Good question, Jason. Obviously they're just going to change all
the titles back tonight at the SmackDown tapings.

Speaker 4 (18:55):
I don't know if they had the champions out there
with their title belts or if they'll just gooss over.
I don't know how they're going to handle it it
I don't think. I mean, Tribute to the Troops is
a nice show. They're they're proud of it, but I
don't think they worry too much. So if you see
him with the title belts, life goes on. But my
guess is that they probably just didn't bring title belts out. Wigh.

Speaker 1 (19:15):
Yeah, either they didn't bring title belts out, not in
anticipation the title changes, but sort of just in case.
One thing that they could do in future years to
avoid any issues in this regard is just have the belts.
Leave the belts with you know, sort of like with
some kids or some of the person in the military
personnel where you know, they're taking pictures with the belts
or something like that. So the wrestlers. You know, I

(19:36):
have some sort of built in storyline, but really you
don't even have to do that. Just have the wrestlers
come out without their belts. Who cares. You know, it's
it's a pre tape show. It's not angle driven, unless
you count, you know, poking somebody dressed as sant in
the belly and him over selling or something like that
as an angle. You know, it's it's a light show.
So that doesn't bother me as much as if say

(19:57):
they had taped, you know, a month of SmackDown ahead
of time, that I would have an issue with. Jimmy
number three.

Speaker 8 (20:03):
Okay, assuming that Triple H and Rome range A is
going to fight each other at WrestleMania because of what happened,
I was like going to sec the world title pitcher.
I mean, do you think he'll live?

Speaker 1 (20:15):
Yeah, interesting quest, Jimmy. I think I get the gist
of what you're saying there. Jason. Do you think it's
Roman Reigns against Triple H at WrestleMania at now Rumble,
perhaps to hotshot the first raw of twenty sixteen? What
are the options and where are you leaning?

Speaker 4 (20:33):
I lean toward the Royal Rumble. I don't because in
order to get to Triple H and Roman reigns at WrestleMania,
if Rains is still the champion, then Triple Ah has
to win the Royal Rumble, and sure he could put
himself in at thirty. I don't think that goes over well.
I think through looking at the Royal Rumble and normally
the Rumble cells itself, and I'm an advocate of kind
of going with a lighter match for the world title

(20:55):
match is something you know, if this were still Seth
Rollins's champion, I might say, well, go set Rollins and
Neville and have some fun something that you're not required.
You're not relying on that match to sell the show.
But they need to sell the Rumble as best they
can because they're going against the NFL Conference championship games
that night for reasons that I'll never understand. I don't

(21:15):
know why they're scheduled it that way, but normally they
have the Royal Rumble the week in between those games
in the Super Bowl. This year they go directly opposite.
I believe to see a NMC championship game, and I
think they're going to load up the Rumble a little
bit more than just with the Rumble itself. And I
just think that the way we saw that match set up,
it just it feels like it's too soon for Wrestlmandia.

(21:36):
That's my take on it.

Speaker 1 (21:38):
Yeah, I think stretching, stretching Hunter versus Roman all the
way to Mania would indicate you would have to have
something to carry them all the way there, where Hunter
would cool down from the beatdown and then have it
get heated up again. And yeah, having if Roman's still
champion at Mania, and I think he will be, I
don't think it makes sense Steff Hunter going after the belt.

(21:59):
So I think if Hunter's going to wrestle at the Rumble,
He's not gonna be in the Rumble, Dooff. He's still champion.
He's got to defend the title. You talked at the
top of the show, Jason. Not a lot of heels
to choose from that are pay per view worthy or
Rumble title shot worthy. So triple agibs. So I could
see Stephanie and Hunter quote abusing their power and Hunter
saying I want to take this belt back and you

(22:23):
know I can still go or if I win it,
I'm going to appoint a different champion or hold it
till Seth gets back. I don't know. They can have
all kinds of storylines. They could also do a non
title match Jason at the Rumble and have it just
be a grudge match and have Hunter say I don't
you know, I'm past the point I wanting to be champion.
You know, I'm running the ship, but I want to
get revenge on you, and they have a non title match.
I don't think that hurts How many people buy the

(22:44):
WW network in January based on that? I mean, I
guess maybe it's a little bonus if some people would think, oh,
maybe Hunter wins the belt, but mostly I think they
just want to see the grudge match.

Speaker 4 (22:55):
Yeah, I mean, maybe this is the match where they
jack up the stipulation so that if Punter loses, he
obviously doesn't win the title, but he and Stephanie also
lose power.

Speaker 1 (23:05):
I mean with Bene, I don't.

Speaker 4 (23:06):
Know if Bench comes back to television after this, but
they could, you know, if they want to have him
on one more time, they could always set that up
and then you have some pretty high stakes there, and
at least it doesn't feel like just a gimme that rains. Well,
it probably still feels like a give me that he wins,
but at least there's some fallout on the other side
if punter does lose the match.

Speaker 1 (23:23):
Let's go next to three oh one, and then we'll
go back to Eric and Grand Rapids after that. Three
oh one. Thanks for holding, Thanks for calling. State your
name and where you're going from.

Speaker 9 (23:32):
This is Junior for Washington d C.

Speaker 1 (23:34):
Hey, Junior, good dear from you.

Speaker 9 (23:35):
What you got, what's going on away? What's going on
with Jason? Hey Man? Real quick, I'm gonna cause I'm
gonna get out the way, but I know y'all got
a lot of callers. Basically, uh uh, last night was cool.
You know what I'm saying. It was good job. I
mean nice, little, nice way to win in raw for Chains.
I like the format of the show for the most part,
but at the end of the day, I still see

(23:57):
him having a whole lot of problems. And I'll know
if it's all it's I think they've done so much
damage it's going to take a long time for them
to fix it.

Speaker 4 (24:06):
So but I do have three What's.

Speaker 1 (24:08):
What's number one and two on your list of things
to fix?

Speaker 9 (24:12):
Well? Number one, uh, the booking, the fifty to fifty booking.
I mean, I know we've all talked about it one
hundred times, but the fifty fifty booking that's really killed.
They have no heels and no, no, really, they have
no baby faces like they have all all heels and
all their baby faces have been emasculated to the point
of no return. A lot of them, like the blowoff
dog Ziggler. He need to just go away, Just go

(24:35):
away for six months and when he comes back, I
don't want he need a new name, new new dear,
new everything. I don't he needs to be a totally
different person. Yeah, that's how bad. That's how much damage
I think they've done in Doug Zigler. That's my opinion,
but that's.

Speaker 1 (24:49):
How I think. Jim Ross said that on Thursday. I
don't know if I'm mixing his opinion up for somebody else's,
but yeah, adultso one of those guys, I think, who
would benefit from going away and coming back UNI or
anything anything else you would do on your Yeah, I.

Speaker 9 (25:02):
Had I had three things that I thought that I
think that would help Roman reigns get over a lot more,
a lot faster than I wanted to think. You want
to know what you guys thought about it all right.
First thing, take that stupid ass best off because it
looked like a toy. That's the first thing, you know
what I mean, look like an action figure. And I
think that that takes away a lot of them. He's
the only one out there wrestling with armor on. I

(25:24):
don't know if y'all noticed that.

Speaker 10 (25:26):
But he is.

Speaker 4 (25:26):
Yep, that's the thing. I don't think very many people
notice that. I mean, I think people like I think
people like the Lord by and large.

Speaker 9 (25:33):
I mean you said they like it.

Speaker 4 (25:35):
I think they do. I mean, it's just not something
you know, in all the complaining we've heard about Roman reigns. Wait,
has that come up more than today? I mean maybe once.

Speaker 1 (25:43):
I think I complained once. I mean, yeah, I know
it's I don't think it's most people's top five reason
to not support Roman rains. I'll put it that way.

Speaker 9 (25:53):
I said it would help him get over.

Speaker 1 (25:54):
Yeah, I'm a little more with Junior, But I don't
know what's under that. If it's if it and I
mean seriously, if it's a bunch of tasks.

Speaker 9 (26:03):
Yes you do, because remember and remember when he fought
remember rock?

Speaker 11 (26:06):
Wow?

Speaker 9 (26:06):
Oh yeah, good ripped it all of them at WrestleMania.
You do know what's under remember once he ripped that,
that's all that mask got a lot realer.

Speaker 1 (26:13):
That's true. There is an aspect of Roman where I think,
if there's no reason to hide what's under there, and
you're good example of why we know and shouldn't be worried,
I kind of feel like it makes them a little
bit less of looking like a video game or an
action figure. And I wouldn't mind if it weren't that
his mannerisms are so practiced and rehearsed, you know, the

(26:35):
the talking the fist before the Superman punch, and yell
like he does before the spear. It makes him feel
a little less human and a little bit more of
a programmed robot. Top Star kind of pulled out of
this virtual reality video game. I think maybe he would
visually and maybe even on a on a hard to
put your finger on, but just he would manage to

(26:55):
connect more with fans if he wasn't so protected in
that vest. You know that what looks like almost a
bulletproof vest type thing. I would vote for taking it
off unless I was given a reason I don't know
about not to. But at the same time, Junior, I'm
kind of partially with Jason and that. I don't think
it's a deal killer, but I can understand it being

(27:16):
on your list, going, Hey, you know, when's the last
champion who just looked like he was, you know, a
G I Joe kit with every accessory added to it.

Speaker 4 (27:24):
I don't remember anyone complaining when the shield all wore those.

Speaker 9 (27:27):
Vest is my counter today, I'm sorry, here's my county,
here's my counter today. He looks like the only one
that never left the shield in the first place. That's
my biggest problem with it. That's been one of my
biggest problems with him the whole last year. He looked
like he the only one that never left the shield.

Speaker 1 (27:48):
Yeah. Yeah, music James always puts, you know, the shields
James called one those rock reports, says the shield entrance
music plays and outcomes Roman. You know, it's kind of this,
it would make Minnesota's proud. It's sort of a passive.
Are have comment perhaps on the fact that Roman hasn't
changed since then? Jason, I do think there's something about
when you're the top single star, especially a lead babyface

(28:10):
just I mean again, I don't want to believer the
point because I don't think it's a top five reason
for Roman to improve on or change things. But but
it's there, and I don't remember a top babyface being
that covered up, and I don't know. I guess I
think it does work against him a little bit. I
think it's at least a discussion point.

Speaker 4 (28:26):
I agree to disagree.

Speaker 1 (28:27):
All right, cool, Junior, go ahead.

Speaker 9 (28:30):
Okay, My second one is the second one is they needed? However,
they had him doing his promos last night, Like, I
don't know, Maybe you can answer me a question, real quest. Wait,
when when these rusts talk to these writers, do they
go to the rest is like, Okay, this is what
I want to say, but I want to say it

(28:50):
in your voice, So this is so tell me how
you would say this, and then that's what we'll go with.
Do they do that? You know, if they did that
with him, I think will work a whole lot more.

Speaker 1 (29:02):
John Piermarini, ex creative team member, has been on the
show a lot of times. He detailed that and how
that process works. Generally speaking, a wrestler works with the
same writer each week and gets a rapport with him,
and the writer's job is to try to write in
the voice of that wrestler. I think it comes down
to if I had to write out everything I said

(29:24):
on the live cast, memorize it, and then read it
recite it on camera, I don't think it would be better.
Maybe some people would like it better, but maybe fewer
of certain you know, vocal ticks or repeating yourself or
something like that. But in general, it wouldn't feel conversational.
And I think wrestling fans in a progress and context

(29:44):
are looking for conversation, you know, a conversational tone, a
sense that when the wrestler's talking, they're actually thinking of
the words before they say them, not reciting them from memory.
But it does come down to is Roman and the
writer or writers he's working with able to you know,
pre orchestrate his promos in a way that that does

(30:04):
sound like his natural voice. Jason, I haven't seen the
clip yet, but I know there's a clip out there
what Roman said after rawing off the air and it
got some compliments from what I saw. Did you happen
to see that yet?

Speaker 2 (30:14):
No?

Speaker 4 (30:14):
I have not.

Speaker 1 (30:16):
Yeah, so Roman apparently just was very personable, you know,
in a nonscripted way after rawing off the air and
somebody had commented I should watch it and they'd like
to see more of it.

Speaker 12 (30:29):
In twenty twelve, NXT transitioned into the developmental system and
ultimately the brand you see today. On the Torch VIP
podcast NXT Eight Years Back, we'll be taking a weekly
look at this page in NXT's early history.

Speaker 13 (30:44):
Join Kelly Wells and me Tom Stout from PWT Talks
NXT every Saturday as we go eight years back to
the day to track NXT's rising talents and why they
did or didn't work out, exclusively for PW Torch VIP members.

Speaker 1 (31:00):
I'm okay, go ahead, JR.

Speaker 14 (31:02):
All right.

Speaker 9 (31:02):
My last point, my last thing that I think that
will help him get over a whole lot more is
his move set. If he could just down lo Okay,
this is no. This is the one I think. You
know how instead of him, instead of him making him
another supersena, why don't they have him like be the
type of wrestler. Give him points for dodging the opponent

(31:26):
of the enemy's killed shot versus like shaking it off
like he took that bro cake and shook it off
like it wasn't nothing. I would give him are props
for the guy that all that could they could avoid
getting the kill shot and hit his own. I would
respect that a whole lot more as a competitor, watching
that dude compete and knowing that, Okay, I know this
guy has a dangerous move and I'm trying to avoid

(31:47):
it by at all costs. And then you show that
in the match, and you and you book him as
the type of dude that's smart enough to know. Okay,
I'm not gonna let you get get yours on me,
but I'm damned you'll get mine on you, y'all. I
don't know. To me, I think those three things will
help him get over a whole lot faster.

Speaker 1 (32:04):
I want I want Junior to write Roman range his promos, Jason,
I want him. I like what he just said. There,
go ahead. What do you think book reigns in that way?

Speaker 15 (32:17):
Well?

Speaker 4 (32:17):
As far as the move set, it's concerned him, and
it'd be nice to see it expand. I think it
has slowly, but surely he's a little too proud of
his leap over the top rope, for instance. But I
mean we've seen him work something in things, and yes,
I'd like to see it expand. But I think this
is what they want from him, and I think that,
going back to the vest even, I think they want
him to come off as like this action figure, video

(32:38):
game star. I really think that's what they think the
key to his success is. And they don't seem to
be as bothered by his lack of moves as we are.
Otherwise I think you'd see him working on more things
on the house shows and than what he does.

Speaker 1 (32:51):
Yeah, but that doesn't if they're not worried about it
doesn't mean they're not wrong. Because he's oh, exactly over.
You're trying to get him over and it hasn't worked.
And maybe one of the reasons is they think it's
not a problem that he comes across as a video
game or action figure come to life. And so that's
what I'm kind of hoping happened in the last week
is is you know those couple of ratings in a row,

(33:12):
the reaction to Roman. I mean, I wouldn't have been shocked,
and it would be behind closed doors and kept private
if Roman didn't just go to Vince and go, this
isn't working. I put my I put my career in
your hands. But I got to speak up. These are
things that I think are wrong. These are things I
need to do different. I mean, if he has that
kind of self awareness wrestling IQ and ideas or other

(33:32):
people are in his ear, he certainly has friends in
high places, you know. I mean, at some point Roman
doesn't want to go out there with a bad script
and die like he did last Monday on Raw. And
this was a better experience. And all that said, he
still talked about Prunes, where last week it was tater Tots.
I could have done without that, if only because the
Tater Tots thing bombs so badly that maybe you want

(33:53):
to avoid the whole grapefruit thing with Vince, even though
it's very convenient to do so, because it's you know,
a big catchphrase for Vince. All right, Uh, we've got
to over a dozen people on hold, but you can
get in line six four six seven eight. I'm Wade Keller,
joined by Jason Powell from Pro Wrestling dot Net. We're
taking your phone calls. Let's go check out and see

(34:13):
if Eric is still there and if he's ready for us.
Eric from Grand Rapids, are you ready for us?

Speaker 14 (34:18):
Yes?

Speaker 7 (34:18):
I'm ready now, I'm yeah. I had to take care
of something. But who do you think who do you
think one of the world rogel Do you think since
Kevin Olin is lasting or kind of title he might
want it? Or do you think Sina wants it? And
and you talk last thing about Roland Rains or Seene
Attorney heel, who do you think more is more likely
to atturny he'll he'll now And that's all I got.

Speaker 1 (34:37):
Thanks Gee, too easy questions, Jason, You know I.

Speaker 4 (34:41):
Think they are in a way I do. I think
it's well, it comes down to two people for the
rumble in my opinion, And is John Cena or brock
Lesser that win that match and go on to face
and range at WrestleMania. I think they've just shown such
determination when it comes to Roman reigns. Believe it or not. Way,
if somebody told Vince you absolutely must turn one of

(35:04):
these men, I think he would turn John Cena at
this point because he's just been so starbarnd with Rains
for the last two years.

Speaker 1 (35:09):
Really well, I think one way Roman Rains can get
himself over is marketing himself, but he has to do
so in a way that comes across as authentic as
the anti Sena, as the guy who's not going to
do a lot of the things that people don't like
John Cena for, you know, the ones who are doing sena.
Try to figure out what that is and can Roman
play play against that without losing another big part of

(35:31):
the fan base who like John Cena, you know, and
that's the that's kind of the hopscotch that he has
to play, you know, How does he land on the
squares that tell people John Cena haters I'm different than him,
without falling outside of the squares and and upsetting the
people who are saying, wait a second, I like John Cena,
and if Roman Reigns doesn't I don't like him. That's

(35:54):
a challenge, but I would be intrigued to see it.
But yeah, Jason, I mean when I say it's an
easy question, sarcastical, they say it's an easy question. I'm
just not ready to say whether it's Sina or Lesner.
I do think it's probably, you know, eighty five ninety
percent chance it's one of those two. It's hard to
come up with another person that jumps out, who would
be Roman Reigns ready and healthy at that point. What

(36:15):
about his other question, Well, I guess you kind of
covered them both in one so Yeah, the Sino one.

Speaker 4 (36:21):
Probably going to the Dean. Ambroses is an extreme dark
horse there. If they ever went up they want to.
It feels premature to turn him right now. I think
he's doing fine. Well, let's just you know, for the
sake of argument, if they've got if Rains is kind
of the odd man out. They have like four big
wrestlers and two matches, and Rains is the odd man out. Well,
maybe it would be Ambrose, but I don't think that happens,

(36:42):
I really do, you know, push comes to show. I
think they're going rock Lesner and Roman Reigns in the
rematch from last year because they left it open. I
think that's what they wanted to do at the time,
and I'm guessing they get back to it now.

Speaker 1 (36:55):
Yeah. And then it's interesting because you're trying to get
Roman over as a babyface, and his two top opponents
for Mania are both babyfaces and right in the way
of Roman turning face or is there a story Vince's
confident that he can tell that we'll get Roman out
of it as a stronger baby face without hurting either
Sena or Lesner.

Speaker 4 (37:12):
If he drives to be the opposite of John seen it.
Does that mean he like spears, make a wish kids
and super punches troops.

Speaker 1 (37:18):
No, I think it's the other I don't think that's
why see it gets booed. I think it's it's the
other stuff.

Speaker 4 (37:24):
Okay, that's good.

Speaker 1 (37:25):
Yeah, yeah, no I would I'd like to be clear
on that. All right, let's let's give you a chance, Jason,
to plug your website. What's on there today that people
should check out, and also let people know about your
membership option.

Speaker 4 (37:38):
Yeah, you can check out all the headlines of wrestling
dot net and if you have any questions on anything,
hit me up on Twitter at pro wrestling Net.

Speaker 1 (37:44):
If people have any questions on anything.

Speaker 4 (37:47):
Anything, I don't care what. It doesn't mean I'm gonna
answer them. Oh yeah, they can ask.

Speaker 1 (37:51):
All right, I'd like to see people take you up
on that. What is it?

Speaker 4 (37:55):
You can hit me up on Twitter at pro wrestling Net.

Speaker 1 (37:57):
Oh okay, all right, all right, well let's uh, let's
go ahead and go back to the phone lines and
see what other people have to say that a lot
of people on holding will begin with Eric code five
two five oh two, thanks for holding him, by the way,
three or five is on deck five oh two, Please
state your name and the city you're calling from.

Speaker 16 (38:15):
This is James from Louisville.

Speaker 1 (38:17):
Hey, James, go ahead. What have you got for Jason
to me?

Speaker 15 (38:19):
Uh?

Speaker 16 (38:19):
Yeah, I just got a couple of questions real quick.

Speaker 9 (38:21):
Uh.

Speaker 16 (38:22):
First of all, I thought they took a good step
by showing that Kevin Owens is, you know, kind of
the badass heel last night. And do you think that
if they continue to, you know, show him in that
way and give him a couple of minutes of promo
time every week, do you think he possibly could end
up becoming a top star sometime in the next year
and competing for the title.

Speaker 1 (38:44):
Jason, I think what we saw last night as a
step in the right direction. And the short answer to
James's question is, if they don't mess up Kevin Owens, Yeah,
I think he can become a top star. It just
comes down to one are the odds that they don't
kind of mess him up and they give him that
that freedom to be who he can be.

Speaker 4 (38:59):
That's that's the thing, you know, And I thought last
night was a step in that in the re direction.
I thought it was much better. It's just nice to
see him get a little bit of Mike time without
having to respond to some stupid fat joke or make
some comment like that, although I did get a kick
out of his line about how he always eats popcorn
and drink soda pop. I thought that was great the
night before, but I think that was that was the

(39:21):
best we've seen Owens really since the John c in
a feud, is what I feel. You know, he was
just cold and ruthless and attacking Dean Ambrose and Dolf
Ziggler and then just carry that over to the backstage setting.
And yeah, I mean I think I don't know that
Vince McMahon is ever going to have Kevin Owens headlining WrestleMania.

(39:41):
I just don't. But can he be a main player
for that company for years to come? Yes, if they
take care of him.

Speaker 1 (39:47):
Yeah, I agree with that one hundred percent. All right,
we'll go to three or five of then on deck three,
two oh three or five. Thanks for calling. Please state
your name and where you're calling from.

Speaker 3 (39:57):
Hey guys, DJ from Ryan, How you're doing doing good?

Speaker 2 (40:00):
Do it for me?

Speaker 1 (40:00):
DJ? What have you got for chasing me?

Speaker 3 (40:02):
I got I got two questions. My first question is,
have you guys noticed now that everybody's talking about their kids.
This their kids that I remember the error when it
was so sucre of you know, and all the girls
watered them and the wrestlers. Back then, you know, nobody
knew that they had families or nothing. And now it's
all best families and families this and that. Have you

(40:23):
guys notice that I think.

Speaker 1 (40:25):
We've seen more of it than I remember. Yeah, I
wouldn't say it's every How many wrestlers can you name
DJ right now that they've acknowledged have kids?

Speaker 3 (40:34):
Okay? Last night one of them said my kids Robin Rains,
Dean Ambrose and somebody else I think.

Speaker 14 (40:43):
I can remember.

Speaker 3 (40:46):
Yeah, one, I don't.

Speaker 4 (40:50):
Didn't Ambrose say anything. I don't think. Yeah, I don't
ye long time. I don't even know if he has kids.
I'm not sure.

Speaker 3 (40:58):
Yeah there's a daughter.

Speaker 14 (40:59):
He was saying.

Speaker 3 (41:00):
It is not like when they were doing the snow thing.

Speaker 1 (41:03):
Oh so not last night?

Speaker 3 (41:06):
No, no, no, this has got a wild back here. Okay,
so they're all saying that, you.

Speaker 1 (41:09):
Know, so DJ, we can think of four wrestlers who
acknowledge they have kids, not necessarily all in one weekend?
Is it more than that? And you're forgetting because I mean,
I don't. I mean, I yeah, I guess there's probably
a span of time, Jason where there was a roster
of wrestlers where there weren't any acknowledgment of anybody having kids.
But and it does, you know, for Roman Reigns. I mean,
it sort of takes away of fantasy that some women

(41:33):
might have that oh, he's he's a bachelor, he's available,
he's most eligible, that kind of thing. So, I mean
it's a little risky in that respect. But I think
maybe the feeling is in the social media world and
with some of the network reality shows they do in
the PSA's that there's just no way to hide that,
so they just decide to go ahead and embrace it.

Speaker 4 (41:51):
Yeah, I think they want him to be more human,
and I think that helps. It caught me up guard
a little bit too, because with the entire time John
Cena was married never it wasn't like they tried to
hide it, but they certainly didn't want it. They for instance,
his relationship with Nikki, it never makes its way to
the main television show. It certainly is on Total Divas,

(42:13):
So I mean, you know, things have changed a little bit,
But I will admit I was surprised when Rowan talked
about his wife and his daughter, but I think I
get this strategy there at the same time.

Speaker 1 (42:22):
Yeah, yep, very good. All right, let's go next to
area code three two zero in the non deck nine
five four. We'll do a couple of Minnesota calls. First,
go ahead, out three tow ol state your name and
the city you're calling from three to two zero. All right,
I guess we won't get to two Minnesota calls in

(42:42):
a row. Let's go to nine to five four though,
nine five four, Please state your name and where you're
calling from.

Speaker 14 (42:48):
Hi.

Speaker 17 (42:48):
This is Joe vip member from Hollywood, Florida.

Speaker 1 (42:51):
Hollywood, Florida. Oh, I was looking at nine five fourth's on.
I thought I saw nine five two. My mistake. Well,
go ahead, have zero Minnesota collars in a row, but Florida, Joe,
give us give us a question or comment.

Speaker 11 (43:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 17 (43:03):
I have a couple of questions, actually two questions, so
I'll give you the first one. I know we already
touched on Kevin Owens a little bit, and I know
you Wade touched on this on the pay per view
roundtable following POC. But I was curious what you guys
both thought about the exaggeration of Kevin Owens weight in
which he was being compared to Vader and ban Dam
Bigelow during the IC title match.

Speaker 1 (43:24):
Yeah. I think when when Vince McMahon looks at Kevin Owens,
he sees like crusher, Jerry Blackwell or something, you know.
I mean, I don't get it. I mean, he's he's
a little bit husky, but he's he looks athletic enough
to me. Jason, what's the obsession with pointing out that
Kevin Owens doesn't look like Randy Orton or whatever body

(43:44):
type is supposed to be the only athlete type of body.

Speaker 4 (43:48):
I think they're trying to justify his existence on their
roster filled with beautiful people. I think there's some weird
hang up with it. I just would simply if they
even feel the need to address and I don't think
it needs to be addressed. But now they've mentioned it
so many times, call it strategies. You know, that's the
weight that he works best at, Like you wouldn't you
in MMA?

Speaker 1 (44:09):
Yeah, I agree, it's Kevin Owens is not He's not
Roy Nelson, you know from UFC. Like I got Roy Nelson,
you know, I mean that was he was eating whoppers
on his way to the ring and it was just like,
you know, he just he looked like the last guy
in the world you think would be a heavyweight contender.
But that's not Kevin Owens. Kevin Owens looks like he
could be a pro football player and not even necessarily

(44:32):
like Alignment, who's way overweight, you know, and he's not
Refrigerator Perry. So yeah, I'm not I vote no on
on Owen's talking about his diet and being a being
eating junk food and all that. I mean, I get
he was taking a dig at Dean Ambrose with his comment,
but I just I'd like to see Kevin Owens stay
away from self deprecating comments in that regard. I think

(44:54):
the announcer should be talking about what a great athlete
he is. And like you said, Jason, he uses that
extra weight to his advantage. It's it fits his ring style.
He you know, he's he's a push forward on the
offense type guy with power moves and it's worked for
him and he's found his optimum weight and give fans
that story to believe in, and you don't have to
make excuses for somebody it looks like him, So yeah,

(45:15):
I'm down on that too. By the way, I am
the guest of Stone Cold Steve Austin on The Steve
Austin Show today. It just dropped earlier today with an
hour long discussion on TLC. So if you want to
hear Steve Austin's point of views and Steve and I
bounce back and forth on our thoughts on that show,
some differing views and some like minded views. Also. That

(45:35):
is available at podcast one. The Steve Austin Show also
of course available on iTunes, so check that out if
you missed it earlier. Just a reminder, we're running our
second VIP sale of the year. We don't do these often,
take advantage of it now. It is a limited time
offer take nine dollars off a VIP subscription a one month,
three month or one year sub It brings the one
month sub down to just three dollars in ninety nine cents.

(45:57):
The coupon code is Nov twenty five, as in November
n o V twenty twenty five, and that takes nine
dollars off when you check out on our sign up
form pw Torch dot com slash go v ip give
you full details on membership benefits and links to our
sign up form. All right, let's go next to aera

(46:18):
code two one oh, and then after that uh to
eight one to one oh. Please state your name in
the city you're calling from two one zero, going once,
going twice. All right, we go to too eight one,
then two eight one things for holding. Please state your
name and where you're calling from.

Speaker 15 (46:38):
No, this Boris Chicago.

Speaker 1 (46:39):
Hey, Borys yep. I just when I hung up the
one guy, the switchboard moved on me and I clicked
you instead of one. So go ahead, Boris, it's your
lucky day.

Speaker 11 (46:45):
You're okay, Okay, I got three questions. My first one
has blog tile with Sunday Night the server outage has
Was this the first time that block tied shut down
by your show?

Speaker 1 (46:59):
It's twice. I don't know when the last time was.
I don't remember exactly.

Speaker 11 (47:04):
I think that was awesome, even though we didn't get
all that time.

Speaker 9 (47:07):
I think it's awesome.

Speaker 11 (47:09):
I'm still curious to with all of us slamming his
suffer like that, what did everybody want? I mean, it
was a good show. I'm just cursed to we didn't
get to know what people had wanted to act so
talk about I mean, you know what I'm saying because
we didn't go live.

Speaker 1 (47:25):
Well, yeah, now we have last night and out tonight.

Speaker 15 (47:30):
Right, okay?

Speaker 11 (47:31):
And this is you can drive into this for re
the prejation because I listened to his show with Triple
H the conference call, and once again, this dude talks
so well about the next t and is it possible
for him to just stay with the next team and
not be on Rock because you know what he do

(47:52):
on raw.

Speaker 15 (47:53):
Really really you know it.

Speaker 11 (47:57):
It conflicts me with me. I love him on with
an xted, but it really conflicts me that him him
being all right, what do you think Jason?

Speaker 1 (48:07):
Yeah, Jason, go ahead?

Speaker 4 (48:09):
Are we talking Sammy Zay?

Speaker 7 (48:10):
Is that who it was to Blake?

Speaker 4 (48:12):
Oh? Triple Ah? I would. I want to see that
character make its way to Ross someday. I want to
see him be that, you know, spokesman for the company,
the goodwill ambassador type, that the fair minded authority figure.
I think he plays that part very well. And when
that's and we've seen him do it, but they decided

(48:33):
to do that goofball angle where everybody walked out on
him I thought he was effective in that role, and
he certainly is an NXT, so as much as I'm
not just saying keep him in NXT forever and keep
him completely away from from WWE, because just for that
reason that I think someday it's going to work very
well on the main roster.

Speaker 1 (48:51):
And I'll say this, I I was kind of a
little bit confused when Romanraines is beating up Triple H
after Triple H did nothing to him at that moment.
If Roman was beating up the good guy ambassador of
the upcoming great NXD Takeover Special, the guy who brings
us our favorite promotion that all the hardcore fans in
Philly love, or the evil Authority version of Triple H,
it's like when those universes overlap in a really stupid

(49:13):
inconsistent way. I was. I was kind of wondering, are
we supposed to is that a Roman rains Heel turn
second of all Triple H. And I know William Regal
is not going to be there now, but Triple H
better not show up Wednesday all Smiley playing alternate universe
good guy Triple H. He needs to be selling what
happened on Sunday. His face should not appear on that
NXT takeover show. He was too involved in major storylines

(49:36):
as a heel to show up in some alternate universe
world where he's just fine and we love him because
he's a great guy, right, Jason.

Speaker 4 (49:44):
Does it bother you that he just posted a picture
of himself on the streets of London.

Speaker 1 (49:49):
He is convalescing in Connecticut.

Speaker 4 (49:51):
Jason, he really did.

Speaker 1 (49:54):
I don't want him on that social media. You can say, well,
maybe that's a different world, stay off that takeover special.

Speaker 4 (50:02):
Come on, Yeah, I mean, I gotta admit there's I
was a bit disappointed. I know he's kind of the
spokesman for XT, but the day after the pay per view,
there he is, you know, just tweeting out, Hey, big news,
we're coming to the Midwest for NXT. It was like, man,
can't somebody else do that? It's just it's strange. I
wish they were a big injury angle like that. I mean,

(50:24):
I don't expect them just to change their ways completely,
but when there's a big, main event injury angle, I wish,
even on social media, they could just keep remaining character
by doing nothing rather than going out there and just
everything's fine. Here's a bunch of XD dates.

Speaker 1 (50:40):
Yeah, Triple H looks just fine. He made it. He
somehow made it to Lenon since last night when he
was convalescing somewhere in Connecticut and no worse for wear,
looking very dapper in that suit. So yeah, I mean,
I really I'm really against it. I'm disappointed, and I
still hope he does not he does not show up

(51:01):
on that NXT Takeover special.

Speaker 15 (51:03):
My last thing right right, my last thing, Yeah, because
it leads into this. Now me is a hell I'm
assuming and USO is a face?

Speaker 8 (51:16):
What is with?

Speaker 11 (51:18):
You know?

Speaker 15 (51:19):
It confuses me that, Okay.

Speaker 11 (51:21):
When they do these these little extra vignettes and stuff
like that, they you know, one is a heel, one
is a face. Why can't they just team or put
them on one side? So okay identified that, okay, DUSO,
it's you know, I mean just like it's like Scis
Banks could be a face or here they're not teaming
the payers up. Since you announced that these people are

(51:42):
married or have some type of relations, why can't they
fraction up with who they are, like Dave Brian and Brie.
Brie is a heel, Dame Brien. You know, it's confuses
me as the characters while they are still up like that,
but they acknowledged that they are together.

Speaker 1 (51:58):
Yeah, I mean Jason, consistency in these different sections of
the universe. WWE creates I think, you know, I use
the term they create an unnecessary headwind to people getting
into the characters because with their watching TV, they like
or dislike somebody for a certain reason. They pop on
social media looking for some support of that, and they
find out they get reminded, oh, that's right, that was

(52:20):
all just for fun, and they get emotionally divested from
whatever charged up they were from what they were watching.
And again, I just I don't see the downside to
not doing it. Like you said, can't somebody else tweet
about the tour of NXT, Can't somebody else introduce can't
Ridge Brennan just handle introducing the Damn Show on Wednesday

(52:42):
night Wednesday afternoon.

Speaker 4 (52:44):
I'm hoping that happens. It irritated me last week when
we saw a team bad be so shaw me with
the with New Day because it's like, it's not even
a total davish thing you've acknowledged on your television show
on Raw and SmackDown that one of the USO's is
married to Naomi, and then the next segment there's that one.
There's the luso's on commentary and no, no, no, not

(53:08):
even a question about, Hey, your wife was just reactromizing
with the enemy. What's going on? You nothing?

Speaker 1 (53:13):
Now. What I would like to see is a TMZ
exclusive of what happened after Hunter took that photo in
the streets of London, which is Roman Reigns hitting him
from behind with a chair and knocking him out. You know,
just carry the storyline over into TMZ.

Speaker 4 (53:28):
Why not Jason, Well, right before Stephanie pulling the walker
away so so he could take that picture.

Speaker 1 (53:35):
There you go. Yeah, here's the wide shot. Hornswoggle's behind
Hunter holding him up, and there's a makeup lady saying,
I hope I did a good job covering up all
the welts, and yeah Stephanie and holding the wheelchair and yeah,
I know, I wish it's in this thing. People. Oh,
k Fabe is dead. It's like k Fabe never existed.
It's not dead, it never truly existed. It's I mean,

(53:58):
you go back to the nineteen thirties, there's new paper reports,
this wrestling stuff. You know, we're not covering it. There's
a reason there's no legal betting on it. You know,
there's been I mean, this is not a new thing
that people know. Wrestling is is not real. I think
there's a generation of people who think, oh yeah, well god.
Back in the nineties people thought it was real. Back
in the eighties people thought it was real. People in

(54:19):
the sixties didn't think it was real. Did fans attending
did some of them not know better? Of course there
was a higher percentage, But this idea that there was
ever this big con at the level of you know,
like USC if it came out that UC was all
at work. You know, as much as people believe it,
nobody ever believed wrestling was as real as a pure
sport that did not exist. But wrestling promoters all along

(54:41):
new there was a lot of money in creating a
mystique and protecting it and having consistency to your characters
and having people believe that what you see on TV
as a reflection of who these people are when the
cameras are off. My Vince McMahon was the number one
proponent of this. They'd say what about these wrestling characters
and go, oh, not so fast. These aren't characters. These
are amplified versions of who they really are. We we

(55:03):
gather eccentric, tough people, and they're the ones who we
feature on our show. And yeah, they may, they may
in the spotlight work themselves into a you know, into overdrive,
but but this is who these people are, you know.
I mean Steve Austin finally found his lane when he
stopped trying to be a character and reflected who he was.

(55:23):
The Rock, I mean, Dwayne Johnson's kind of like the
Rock gets a little bit amped up. But you know,
Shawn Michaels a lot like the Shawn Michaels character that
he played on television, and ww we didn't do anything
to create conflict with that. Same with Brett Hart, same
with Jake Roberts. I mean, these people who drove money
in a world when k fabe existed, because it wasn't

(55:45):
just dead as of two thousand and five or two
thousand and eight or whatever year people think it died.
There was a true there was a true value in
creating protecting a mystique, and this this false notion that
it's this new thing that came Fabe is dead, so
therefore would be insulting. To try to continue portraying anything
on TV as nearly authentic I think is really bad

(56:07):
for business and I'd love to see it get flipped back.
I don't think it's a well, it's a Pandora's box.
There's you're the geniees out of the bottle, better example
or better way to put it. It's it's not about
putting the genie back in the bottle. It's just about
stop hitting yourself over the head with a hammer and
making things more difficult for telling your stories. And you
can stop doing that tomorrow and things get better tomorrow.

(56:28):
It's that simple. So yeah, it's frustrating. I'm glad you
brought up the triple H thing because that that's something
I've been kind of keeping my eye on. And it's
just yeah, it's it's I mean, it's not going to
ruin the show for me, but it's going to make
me think I still really strongly disagree with the way
WWE is doing things. All right, let's go to our
next call and go to Ryan A calling I believe
on Skype. Go ahead, Ryan tell City or calling from today.

Speaker 18 (56:50):
It's from rice Field in England.

Speaker 1 (56:52):
Excellent. Have you seen triple h wandering around the streets.

Speaker 18 (56:57):
No, but finally get touched for you around the time
where it's not one o'clock in the morning, eight pms.
Quite a decent a decent time for me. I watched
everything the next day, so like a lot of other
callers say, like the one from Australia, stuff like that,
they watching and fast forward a lot of it. But yeah,

(57:18):
can't wait to watch it tomorrow live.

Speaker 1 (57:20):
What time is it? Is it what eleven PM?

Speaker 19 (57:22):
Or you are now.

Speaker 2 (57:24):
Just going eleven? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (57:25):
Yeah, all right.

Speaker 18 (57:28):
So on the just as I been listening this ship,
Sham has had Roman Reigns on the rope in the
fight and he was whacking him on the chest of
the padding was. I was there watching it at work
yesterday with one of my friends who was not the
biggest wrestling fan. I was like, I've clearly got padding
on that. It's not actually going to hurt him, and

(57:49):
I just that was just a point from earlier about
the padded vest on him, you know, when Shamus gets
them on the side of the rope.

Speaker 1 (57:56):
We got some people coming out on Twitter against the
best two Jason's so we started something here.

Speaker 18 (58:02):
I'll just I'll just saying that one bit obviously that
he to be hitting him on the chest and he's
got it.

Speaker 1 (58:09):
I don't know if Jonathan is your friend, but.

Speaker 4 (58:12):
Come on, nobody was complaining about it. There was a
million complaints about Roman Range, and today all of a
sudden everyone hates to that.

Speaker 1 (58:19):
No, we're just saying it's a factor. And this was
yesterday or Sunday that his body was complaining. Jonathan on
Twitter says the best Roman wears is terrible. It made
Seamous look dumb at TLC. Why would he beat a
hard piece of plastic on the apron? Evil Can on
Twitter says Roman Range looks like to create your own
wrestler from the two K Games. And Jim Morrison Jim
Morrison's liver on Twitter says, I hated the shields fake

(58:40):
slot gear too, and I hate the best. So a
few people coming out saying it they've they've there might
be a silent disgruntleness with the with with Raine's gear.
I certainly complained when they added a whole layer to
it earlier this year. But anyway, we're not going to
meet Jason's mind no matter how much evidence we give
from that he's wrong.

Speaker 18 (58:59):
I wasn't to that bubble about his best. To be honest,
I just want to pick up that point anyway. So
just two questions, just two things. Really the TLC match,
I thought the tactic him much was by far the
best on the night. I just I just kept me
entertained all night, I mean for the beginning of the
at the of the pay per view, and then if

(59:19):
you had to choose out of a j Styles or
Jeff Hardy coming back coming into the ww MA roster,
which one would it be? And great Shure, I'm just
just becoming VIP member as well. Keep doing what you're doing.

Speaker 1 (59:32):
Excellent. I appreciate it. Cal Ryan. Good to hear from England. Jason.
I think he asked two from NXT, what bring up?
I thought Hunter at a good point last week, just
saying we don't want to bring anybody up until vinsick
Man's ready for them and we have a plan.

Speaker 4 (59:44):
Yeah, like Kyler Breed, I know.

Speaker 1 (59:46):
That's gonna mention that earlier. God, I was sad when
he lost the way he did un raw. I mean
it's just like he's he's just become Adam Rose suddenly.
I mean, just thank new Toy now I'm bored. What's next.

Speaker 4 (59:58):
That's a shame. I'm seriously, they just say, you know what,
this isn't working out right now, let's bringing back an xt.
This is bad it. I thought there was like AJ
Styles or someone else you may want to bring him
back on. I'm either I thought I heard an AJ
Styles or whatever you know me with British accents.

Speaker 1 (01:00:14):
Go ahead, Ryan, Sorry.

Speaker 18 (01:00:19):
To talk a bit slower player the first The first
thing was obviously the TAILC match to tag Team much
I as far as some of some good spots in it.
And then it was if you had to choose of
AJ Styles or Jeff Hardy coming back onto coming onto
the menoster coming back onto the men roster? Which one
would it be?

Speaker 1 (01:00:39):
See you didn't know Ryan that when you say AJ
Styles or Jeff Hardy to our ears, that sounds like
n x T all right, Or maybe I just had
bad listenings. Thanks Ryan, Agent Styles are Jeff Hardy. That's
a that's a heck of a choice, Jason, I mean
similar in age, I think as a little bit older.
Similar and where tear. They're both injured right now, neither

(01:01:02):
known for having great promos, neither known for being super tall,
although Jeff is taller than AJ by a little bit.
But those are the negatives that ww WE might dwell on.
They're both spectacular talents and have a real charisma that's
made them really successful in a lot of places. Yeah,

(01:01:23):
who would you take in their current state if you
got to put them in the rumble or have them
at Mania or something like that.

Speaker 4 (01:01:30):
Money or my personal taste could because they are different.

Speaker 1 (01:01:34):
Well, give us both.

Speaker 4 (01:01:37):
To make money. With Jeff Party, you plug him in.
He's a star that audience knows him, you know, and
there's a lot of people that know AJ Styles too,
But I think they would feel the need to introduce
him and you'd basically be starting from ground zero with him.
Just the way they do things, the way they operate,
where Jeff Hardy really is a plug and plague. I mean,
he just they just fire up party video packages. He

(01:01:58):
comes in a major way and he just you know,
he could instantly be a main event talent again for them.
So I think that, you know, there's the short term
easy money is in Jeff Hardy, but I would love
to see AJ Styles have a WWE run. I really
think over the long haul, if they take good care
of him, and that's always the big question mark with WWE.
I think he could also make good money for them,

(01:02:20):
and I just think there's so many people on that
roster I would enjoy seeing him work with that he
hasn't yet. But don't get your hopes up for Jeff Hardy.
I mean, he's as far as this years wrestle Nanny
is concerned. As I reported in the dynam Weekly audio show,
he was telling people at Wrestle Caide that he's out
he may need another surgery. I believe. I think he's
telling people he does need another surgery, and it's he's

(01:02:41):
like nine months away and from returning to the ring,
and even when he does, there's a lot of concern
that he may not be able to wrestle the same style.
So keep that in mind.

Speaker 1 (01:02:49):
I mean, that's what happened to Kobe Bryant. You know,
a couple injuries, had to take time off and came
back and just doesn't have the same spring in a step,
doesn't a same leap, and you know said, it's it.
You know, he's not even played at the end of games,
and it's just he's not the same guy. He was
one of the greats for twenty years and then boom,
it just happens. And Jeff Hardy and Kobe I think
are very close to the same age. I think Kobe's

(01:03:11):
thirty eight and Jeff, oh, they're both thirty eight. So yeah,
I mean that can happen, especially with guys who who
are very very reliant on their athleticism, and both Koby
and Jeff are so anyhow, Yeah, good, good details there, Jason,
appreciate that.

Speaker 20 (01:03:27):
Give yourself a reason to look forward to going to
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(01:03:49):
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(01:04:11):
can get a full year of home delivery for just
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trial subscription pw torch dot com slash paper copy. Let's
go to two five one next, and then on deck
seven two one. Thanks for calling to speak your name
in the city you're called from.

Speaker 21 (01:04:31):
Hey, this is Brian from Faro b, Alabama. I just
want to ask really quickly, now that the network is
a bigger i'd say, growing more than the pay per
view areas, does that make a difference when you have
these sudden title changes right after an intense, made a
bit match. I mean I used to feel like, oh,

(01:04:51):
you're wasting all your pay per view money, but now
it's not pay per view money. So does it make
a difference if you have a big, intense match and
then you give away the championship on cable TV.

Speaker 8 (01:05:00):
The next day.

Speaker 1 (01:05:01):
I think the way to look at it is they're
playing with the same amount of money, Brian. It's just
they need five people who have the network to feel
upset that they bought the network primarily for a pay
per view and paid ten bucks, but everybody got to
see the title change, compared to one pay per view

(01:05:21):
buyer being upset and going, hey, wait a second, I
paid fifty to fifty five bucks for this and people
got to see it for free. But you have five
times as many people probably watching last night's pay per
view on the network then would have watched it on
pay per view. But they're paying the same amount of
money as they would have if they're paying fifty five dollars.
So in a way, I think the problem is still there, Jason.

(01:05:44):
You still need to make the network, and primarily those
monthly live former pay per views, they have to have
great value so people feel like my one hundred and
twenty dollars a year, my ten dollars per month. However
they look at it gives me an advantage over the
person with basic cable.

Speaker 4 (01:06:00):
You don't want is to you can get it. I mean,
it's fine.

Speaker 6 (01:06:03):
Last night.

Speaker 4 (01:06:03):
I even commented last night my audio review that I
was surprised that they, you know, with Twitter being what
it is and everybody usually having some anything they can
find that's negative, they'll point it out. I really didn't
see anything any people complaining that they gave away a
rematch of the paper remain event. They gave the payoff
away on raw, and it's because they don't do it often.
You don't want to make that become what people are

(01:06:23):
saying about you though. You don't want it to become everything.
They give everything away on raw anyway, So the pay
per reviews aren't what they used to be, or you know,
whatever the lingo you want to use live special. You
don't want to plant that seed in people's set. So
as long as you're careful about it and you're selective
and when you do it, you can do things like
they did last night and it's not going to bother
too many people. I mean, I do think if this

(01:06:46):
were a pay per view, Yeah, I do think we'd
be hearing more complaints about it. Wait, I mean I'd
still have the same answer that they don't do it often.
It's not like t and A. I mean that just
became their thing. You just could count on it. Almost
at that time with TNA, where they just give away
the pay per view main event and the satisfying finish
on television rather than you know, giving you the satisfying

(01:07:07):
moment on as a paying member, as someone paying for
their shows. And it was very frustrating, and I think
that really worked against them on pay per view, But
with WWE, it doesn't happen often. And as long as
it's days that way that they can, you know, pick
and choose when to do it, and it's going to
be okay.

Speaker 1 (01:07:23):
Is It's about making it the exception not the rule.
I also think people got to see a TLC match,
They got to see a different version of Rains in Shamus,
and a better version of Rains and Seamus on Sunday
night compared to Monday night. And they also saw an
intense Newsworthy, memorable beat down at Triple H and there

(01:07:43):
was a good underneath card. Not a great one, but
a good one. Jason Ryan had brought up to the
opening ladder match with the three tag teams. Yeah you know,
I had said on Twitter and a created a bit
of an uproar that I've come to loathe these matches,
not because they're not good and they're not exciting, but
I feel like, and again, Twitter's a bad place to
put something out, you know, something out there that people

(01:08:05):
are gonna not understand the context stuff. But I don't
like when you put a match out there in an
opening spot where guys are taking that kind of those
kinds of risks and what should at least Triple Ah's smiling,
happy photo in London notwithstanding, it should seem like there
are long term ramifications for taking a beating like Triple
Ah shook on Sunday or like those three tag teams

(01:08:27):
took on Sunday also, And I'm so used to that
in TNA and to a lesser degree but somewhat in WWE,
where you have these opening matches and they're just there
to be a spotfest to serve that that slice of
the audience that just in that moment in time wants
to see a really exciting match, and they super serve
that audience in a way that satisfies them but doesn't

(01:08:49):
look at the big picture. What is this doing to
burn out the crowd? What is it doing to take
away what should be reserved to some degree for Roman
and Shamus. So the main eventters, the ones who really
are drawing the money, have a chance to not be
reusing gimmicks that opening match guys used for eighteen minutes
in a better match and they I don't know, I'm

(01:09:09):
curious what you think. But the follow up on Raw
last night Normally those types of matches don't get a
lot of follow up. It really is there. It's like, hey,
you small athletic guys who we don't otherwise care about,
go put on a show for us so that the
fans who like that kind of thing are happy, but
we're not going to really mention it ever. Again, they
did a better job and that they talked about it
last night, although that was weird, a weird angle on

(01:09:30):
raw almost you know, the poor Ussols were almost like
they felt I think they felt romans pain from the
week before. You know, you get sent out there to
do something that doesn't get over and you look around.
So anyway, a lot of stuff kind of throw an
atch as far as that goes. But I wanted to
address Ryan, was that the best match of the night.
How they feel about those matches being in the opener.
I think we've all been kind of critical of TNA

(01:09:50):
doing that with the X Division over the years, and
did wwe have the right idea in mind at least
even if the execution kind of flopped.

Speaker 4 (01:09:58):
I think they put it in the opening spot because
they wanted to distance it from the main event. You know,
you also had a chairs match on the show. And
you know, I don't think that match belonged in the
main event when you think about it, I think it's
more flaw with the the TLC concept. I just I
don't think you needed to have that match. I think
you need I would have preferred even with the chairs

(01:10:21):
match that's just been a standard wrestling match. I think
the show could have used more downtime in between these
gimmick matches than we got. And I think if you
watch the first part of the match, the crowd's pretty flat.
They'd seen it all on this show. You know, how
many times can you see someone be hit over the
chair with the back and go ooh at some points
just like oh, you hit them with the chair again.
You become desensitized to it.

Speaker 1 (01:10:40):
And so it said that we've already seen this during
the main event.

Speaker 4 (01:10:43):
Jason, Well there you go. I mean, it's just you
have to. So I think that was a strategy. I
think that's why, more so than just to throwaway X
division spot best we'll throw it on the in the
opening match. I think there was some strategy to it,
But I don't like the message it since at all,
And you don't like you I like that they at
least tried to put that over last night, but that

(01:11:04):
was so flawed. That was they're just trying to recreate
what they did with the Hardy's and Dudley's and edgend
Christian back in the day, and and the payoff to
it was so weird, Like the baby Face tag teams
got mad because the heels were dancing that that's what
upset them, and they celebrated. I just kept waiting for this, well,
I just kept waiting for new data. Finally it was
like the baby Face teams are expecting it, the fans

(01:11:27):
are expecting. You're just waiting for the New Daya to
cross that line to do something where okay, they're not
as respectful as they're acting, and now now the baby
Pace are going to put them in their place. And
it never came.

Speaker 1 (01:11:38):
Uh yeah, that that was just one of those what
did they think would happen when they came up with
this in the back because it just I I, yeah,
I don't have a rant in me about it or
anything like that. I just just more of a chuckle like, wow, yeah,
that that was just a weird thing. So anyway, let's
let's try to get a couple more calls for a
wrap up here by the way, uh with you Torch.

(01:12:00):
Vip this place to go to get about one hundred
exclusive podcasts per month ad free. All the live casts
throughout the month are available VIP. And again what I
just did VIP members didn't hear? That got edited out
on the VIP feed later tonight. All right, let's go
to calls and fit a few more in before we
wrap up. Eight four five. Thanks, Actually eight four five

(01:12:22):
is not on hold. He is in the in the
stand bike you, So let's go instead to three four seven,
three four seven, Thanks for holding. Please state to name
and where you're calling from.

Speaker 5 (01:12:33):
Hello, this is Christian, New York and I have two
questions go for Chris. Thanks, okay, okay. The first and
is actually about Roman Raids. You just think a lot
of the hardcore fans resent Roman Reigns because he he's
pro wrestling, just like his cousins Wayne Johnson as a
job and he doesn't seem like one of these guys
that obsessions over this industry twenty four to seven and

(01:12:56):
wats to do it till a day he dies? Do
you think that's where there it comes from, that he
that he that do you think this guy is he
could play professional football for the Minnesota Vikings. He wouldn't
even be in this company right now. And the funny
question is about John, Yeah, John Cena. Do you think
that John Cena?

Speaker 17 (01:13:15):
Do you think that.

Speaker 5 (01:13:16):
He's all this talk about the face of the company.
Do you think that John Cena as well as Vins
big Man know that as long as John Cena is wrestling,
he'll be the face of the company, regardless of how
many titles they gets. The Roman reigns and the new
face will come at a time when John Cena does
actually retire from competition.

Speaker 1 (01:13:35):
Chris, thank you as always, Jason. I love Chris's questions
because he he's got this like he gets worked up
over this this idea in his head that he's he's
read somewhere, heard somewhere, heard on the show, and he's like,
do you think? Do you think? And and it's just
it's a passionate question, and I think actually.

Speaker 4 (01:13:52):
He gets right to it.

Speaker 1 (01:13:53):
I love it he does too. Yes, Uh, I think
actually he's onto something with Roman. I mean I love
the way he put it. Some people resent Roman because
he doesn't want to wrestle till a day he dies
it he thinks about wrestling twenty four to seven. He
has kids and would like to play in the NFL instead.
I mean the premise is Chris's premise is a little
bit easier to is a little bit easier to knock

(01:14:13):
down a little bit because I think, you know, Daniel
Brian doesn't necessarily well, maybe Daniel Brian wants to wrestle
till the day he dies. I'm not sure that Sampunk
ever did. But I really do get the spiritual Chris
as saying, and I do think there is something to that, Jason.
It's part of I call them the Bellwether fans, the
ones who know the history of these guys, know the
inner workings a little bit. They kind of set the tone.

(01:14:33):
And of course if Roman connected with the rest of
the fans, it wouldn't matter. But sometimes they can kind
of the lead the herd in a certain direction. And
I think with Roman, and I think I talked about
it that Sampunk interview a year ago. I think played
into it when he said, yeah, I'm not WW anymore.
But the last few times that I was, all I
heard is make grumml look good, make rumml look good.
I think that set Roman up for fans resenting him

(01:14:56):
at the peak period of time when fans wanted Sampunk
to still be around or to come back. So yeah,
I mean, Jason, there's something to what Chris is saying,
even if it's not quite as extreme as the counter
argument goes.

Speaker 4 (01:15:08):
Well, there is, and you see it in NXT as well.
A guy like Baron Corman who has the NFL history
and comes in and he's compared to guys that have
been working for years and years, just like Rains gets
called up. A lot of people wanted that to be
Chris Hero and the role he was in The Shield,
a guy that a very popular independent wrestler who was
in developmental at the time as Cashisono. And then of

(01:15:29):
course he's going to be compared to the other guys
in the Shield that he was with, seth Rawlins and
Dean Ambrose who spent years and years on the independent scene.
And so yeah, I do think that that is held
against him by some fans. I do. I just jumping
back to the vest thing. I just I got to say,
I'm surprised he still wears it. I am. I think

(01:15:50):
he can probably going back to when they were starting
this push. I'm pretty sure. I even said, we don't
even know what's under the vest yet, you know, I mean,
and you can find clips of it obviously at an
I just wonder if if you part of the reason
they keep it on him is if you take some
of that, some of the look away, you're making him
something that he isn't. He's not a trunks and boot

(01:16:11):
style wrestler, and so that would almost be going against
whatever is making him work at whatever level he is
working right now.

Speaker 1 (01:16:19):
Jason, do you think people don't like Travis Bryant because
like every unlike everybody else who was on the live
cast during the week, he seems like he likes something
other than wrestling some of the time. I love it.
Hopefully Chris understands that this is in good humor. I
appreciate his call, and we do. I think is a

(01:16:39):
good question. What was I just gonna say about that? Oh,
by the way, this has nothing to do with anything
that we're talking about. And we'll get to a second question.
Stephen McMahon, and all this time about Roman reigns and
everything that happened. She had the line of the night.
She had the line of the night. I put it
on Twitter. You can follow me on Twitter, by the way,
at the Wade Keller at the Wade Keller, and you
can follow our brain and at PW Torch, and you

(01:17:02):
can follow our MMA brand at MMA Torch. And by
the way, check out our tons of usc coverage from
a mega weekend last weekend and wow, just amazing, amazing
two main events on Saturday night, and then also we'll
have coverage of the Fox Sports special coming up Saturday night,
and you're going to get a free podcast over at
mmatorchlivecast dot com covering the weekend happenings, and also get

(01:17:24):
over at mmatorch dot com, our sister website a ton
of pre show perspective and stories and predictions and analysis
coming up on the Big Show coming up on Saturday
night broadcast on Fox, which might determine some very big
things for the future, especially in that main event. But
on Twitter last night, I said that Stephanie had the
line of the night, and it was people think I'm

(01:17:47):
this and I'm that, you know, basically talk circles around
the B word, But really, if you take away my
money and my education, I'm just like all of you.
I just popped when she said that because it was
one of the as somebody could follow it up on Twitter.
I'm not sure that the audience sought as the insult
that it was. But I just thought Stephanie was great

(01:18:07):
last night. I thought it was a fantastic line. You know,
I'm surprised she didn't say if you take away my
good looks and my hygiene, I'm just like you. She
was spectacular. I really liked her last night. I give
her a hard time, and I think she deserves it.
For some times emasculating wrestlers, you could say there was
maybe a little bit of that going on with Roman
reigns and the slaps, but you know, what are you
gonna do? But that said, I thought her performance last

(01:18:32):
night was her at her best in terms, and really
Sunday night, reacting to Hunter, she stopped short of going
over the top, but she was very believable in that role.
Of course, then I went on Twitter to give her
a hard time, and there she is saying, I just
played this part on TV and I'm really a nice
lady who's all about charity. If you missed it earlier,
just a reminder, we're running our second VIP sale of

(01:18:52):
the year. We don't do these often take advantage of
it now. It is a limited time offer. Take nine
dollars off a VIP subscription a one month, three month,
or one year sub It brings the one month sub
down to just three dollars in ninety nine cents. The
coupon code is n O V twenty twenty five as
in November Nov twenty twenty five, and that takes nine
dollars off. When you check out on our sign up

(01:19:13):
form pw torch dot com slash go v IP gives
you full details on membership benefits and links to our
sign up form.

Speaker 4 (01:19:21):
Anyway, go ahead, Jason, Yeah, it was a great line,
It definitely was. But yeah, the that was an emasculating
moment for sure. It was like some weird McMahon initiation
hazing moment where you had Stephanie slapping the piss on
our Roman reigns and then you have Vince McMahon kicking
him blow the belt later in the show. The whole thing.
I just I can't imagine we can go back in

(01:19:44):
time and find any champion in wrestling history who has
like been beaten by non wrestlers as much as Roman
Reign was last night on the night he won the title.

Speaker 1 (01:19:52):
But by god, it worked. I mean, you know, like I.

Speaker 4 (01:19:55):
Think Vincent Stephite over those things.

Speaker 1 (01:19:57):
Yeah, I think Vincent semi are like, well, we got
you over. You know, you might not be able to
have any more kids, you might not be able to
get to the bed in the morning, and you might
have permanent brain damage, but damn it, we got the
Philly crowd to not reject you, so we know what
we're doing. Yeah, you could just evince last week going
god that if nobody else can get him over, but
I can get me on that show.

Speaker 4 (01:20:17):
I be guaranteed he is just like he is at
least so proud of himself today. I don't think it
was a coincidence that he won this championship in the
same building that he was booed out of at the
Royal Rumble.

Speaker 1 (01:20:29):
Yeah, well maybe it was. Maybe in a sense, maybe
it was a coincidence if I.

Speaker 4 (01:20:34):
Mean, I don't think he started planning it at the
Rumble garden, damn it, next time over there. I don't
think it's anything like that. But I think as we
got closer, I'm sure he had this gate circle than
the calendar.

Speaker 1 (01:20:42):
Yeah, yeah, Okay, well, let's let's go ahead and take
another call real quickly, Chris. Yeah, John Cena will be
the face of the company until somebody takes a spot.
And yeah, I mean that's almost a given. All right,
let's let's go to Uh they're trying, Oh yeah they are, yep,
but it'll take some time. Two on. Oh your next
please state your name and where you're calling from.

Speaker 22 (01:21:04):
Hey, this is James and san Antonio.

Speaker 1 (01:21:06):
Hey, James, thanks for calling. What have you got for us?

Speaker 22 (01:21:09):
Hey, I just want to say I really appreciate the
intelligence Wrestling Conversation got turned on to you Wake Killer
and the PW Torch lat cast via excuse me via
the Stone Cold podcast. So really enjoying everything.

Speaker 1 (01:21:25):
Well, thank you, I appreciate it. Welcome.

Speaker 22 (01:21:28):
Yeah, so yeah, you're welcome. So it's just a I
think it's amazing how different personally I feel today about
Rod and I did you know one week ago? I
mean it's I was right on with with you and
Jason last week, which is how bad the product was.
And yeah, they still have a lot of things to fix,

(01:21:48):
but definitely a step in the right direction. The only
problem I see, well, I mean one of the problems
I see moving forward is you know, there's been some
comparisons to you know, Austin McMahon and that this is
you know, kind of the new Austin McMahon. Uh. But
when Austin was student with with Vince, you know, back

(01:22:09):
in you know, the late nineties. Uh, there, Vince had
a stable of heels to turn to, you know, strong
over heels that you know, Austin computed with. You know,
he feuded with you know, Taker, and he feuded with
Rock and Mankind and and right now, you know, there's
just no real heels that are over you know, as
we've all been talking about. Of course, you know Seamus

(01:22:31):
and and Crew. I mean their their ice cold. And
so I do see that as a problem moving forward.
And then just one other point, I was talking with
some friends right after TLC and and we were saying that, uh,
that Rains was starting to get over. But the problem
was is, you know, in general, we don't hate Triple
H like we do vents, and you know, the Triple

(01:22:52):
H probably will never be vents. And then boom, Vince
pops up the next day, and uh, you know, and
maybe they shot their load, but I think they had
to do it. And you know, they had to get
those ratings up or give it a shot, and you
know it certainly worked.

Speaker 1 (01:23:08):
Yeah, I mean it did there. There is obviously what
we're down to, Jason, now, is long term sustainability as
an issue? Well, I guess the yeah, coming out of
last night, the question is is their long term sustainability James,
what do you do You have confidence that Roman will
be able to stay or continue to move in the

(01:23:30):
right direction or do you think this was kind of
a hot shot blip and it's actually going to subside
and things will be back to a bad spot three
weeks from now.

Speaker 22 (01:23:39):
We'll just have to wait and see. I'm not sure.
I mean I'm gonna just kind of go into a
wait and see mode. They may have spent everything they
had in the tank, but you know, maybe Lesner can
come in as kind of like the the Authorities, you know,
hiired Assassiner or something like that with Haymond, you know,

(01:23:59):
pull some good promos with that. But they're going to
have to really do some work on the heel.

Speaker 1 (01:24:05):
Side, Jason, your thoughts.

Speaker 4 (01:24:08):
They have time, you know, that's a nice thing about
WrestleMania season. I mean, obviously they're setting up something with
Hunter and then you get fast Lane, which we'll see
what that is. I mean, for all I know they're
going to save the Hunter match for fast Lane instead.
It's not the Chamber anymore, but then it's WrestleMania, and
whether it's Lesner, I still think it's going to be
just kind of a choose your guy kind of a moment.

(01:24:30):
I don't know that they're going to bring back Brock
and make them a heel, just because it doesn't feel
like it's been long enough since he turned, or even
John Cena. You know, those are times that's two months. Really.
He's got slotted basically with Triple H one of the
two months and then likely one of those matches at WrestleMania,
and so they have some time in there to get

(01:24:52):
some heels over. And I'm looking at what the damage
they've done to some of these guys. There's not a
lot of great candidates. So maybe on one turns, maybe
this is the year John's they finally pulled the trigger
around Johnson. And if that's the case, well you've got
several months of huge with Roman range Johnson, and it
is coming out of Wrestlemaney if you want to if
you do it right even longer. So I mean there's

(01:25:14):
I think they're okay for now. Wait is the big
thing that Yeah, there's a shortage of heels, but they
have a little time to change that they do.

Speaker 1 (01:25:22):
I want to break in with ratings too, because we
just got them a moment ago two point six six
huge bounce back last night. It's like on election night
when we have returns. We have new returns at the
top of the hour from North Carolina, the swing state,
it is a two point six sixth rating, way up
from the two point one to five last week. It's

(01:25:42):
the best rating since August thirty first of nineteen fifty six.
Oh wait, no, the biggest rating since August thirty three.
Feels like that, Yeah, it does since earlier this year.
And the viewership went up from the second to the
third hour, although there were more viewers in the first
hour than the third hour, which is worth noting, but

(01:26:06):
the three point eight million in the third hour was
above the three point It was only about a fifty
thousand person difference. But the third hour, at least in
drop the an adult men, the rating did go up.
It went from about a one point six to a
one point nine from the first to the third hour,
so kind of a ratings and viewership thing that's kind

(01:26:26):
of funky in that regard to I think what that is.
We'll break it that. James will break it all down.
James calton't like PW toorrch dot com and put in perspective,
but bottom line is money and a football game did
eleven point five million viewers a little less than the norm.
Raw might have taken a bite out of it, certainly,
Vincent Mann the promise essentially the promise of a title change.
The way that they said, oh, by the way, Romano
be on ESPN tomorrow celebrating his title win. Well unless

(01:26:47):
he doesn't win, but wink wink right during ring intros.
I mean I didn't think it was like a horrible giveaway,
because I mean Roman could be on their lamenting losing
his job, or they could say, well, you know, since
Roman was fired, he's decided not to show up, which
we can't blame him whatever. I mean, you could talk
yourself into it into thinking it.

Speaker 4 (01:27:05):
Was nine seconds.

Speaker 1 (01:27:08):
But yeah, Jason, your reaction two point six six week.
Last week, we were wondering if they would get to
two point six six During WrestleMania season, and here they
did it seven days later. I mean, you can't, you
can do nothing but give WWE credit for finding a
way to show what Vincent Mann's probably pen telling USA
Network executives all along, don't worry, don't worry that we're

(01:27:29):
we're we got a lot of injuries. We're you know,
reeling from that. But we're not going to hot shot
and blow WrestleMania season and we'll be fine. Hang in there.
I think this is way better than he would have
put money on, though.

Speaker 4 (01:27:42):
Oh it is. Yeah. I mean I did think they
would top that mark during Mania season, but if you
had you asked me last week if I thought they'd
do it this week, I had absolutely not, and they
pulled it off. And I think they did cut into
the game a little bit because it's granted, it's not
a great year for either team, the Giants or the Dolphins,
but it's still a bit New York market team playing
on Monday Night football that's still has playoff aspirations, and

(01:28:05):
so I am surprised that the Monday Night Football numbers
were what they were, but even more surprised at WWE
managed to win back as many viewers as they did,
especially since it wasn't like they were advertising all day
long the Vince McMahon was going to appear. That was
something that they announced during the show. I mean, the
only thing we really knew is that beat up Triple H.

(01:28:28):
Tune in too raw to find out what the fallout is.

Speaker 23 (01:28:30):
Yes, I'm Kelly Wells, host of the seven Star podcast,
the new Ongoing Torch show covering the world of New
Japan pro wrestling. We'll drop new episodes as major shows
and noteworthy events dictate.

Speaker 19 (01:28:49):
And I'm Chris Lansdell join us as we covered the
ever changing landscape of New Japan as they navigate an
era with no lack of talent but a real need
to create some news stars. You can stream the seven
stuff on Because Now from Pro Wrestling Charge.

Speaker 1 (01:29:12):
We'll talk about Vince's performance in the VIP after show,
and also a little bit about n x T and
r O H. But let's uh, let's get one, maybe
two calls in before we wrap up here at three
one eight. Thanks for Colin. Please state your name in
the city you're calling from. This is Lanny from Louis
Van Hey, Wayne, thanks for Colin. What have you got
for Jason to me, I've got a couple.

Speaker 6 (01:29:32):
Of points and we'll make them for I don't want
to get another Colorado. After THLC, I haven't felt that
excited to watch for All its Wrestled night here and
that was Remember they they drew a big number the
night after Wrestled overall, and when I watched for All
on Mondays. I have great TV, so I have picture

(01:29:53):
and picture. I'll put the Monday Night game on the
right side, if Monday Night on the left and all
of the saw oh at the start of the show
because they're still in three games on Monday Night football
or all. Whether I'm gonna watch the dread and throughout
the whole show abrall they hooked me, they actually, and
that's the first one they've done that in years.

Speaker 16 (01:30:15):
Just seen him Clumton.

Speaker 6 (01:30:17):
Broplands there and all that. That was a lot to
come up in this zoop and they showed in the
ratings and I think they did a real good job
of that. And another point I wanted to make is
I watch a lot of wrestling, all kinds of indies,
and when WWE does it right, they don't do it
right all the time, but when they do it right,
there's still no doubt about an other thing, you know,

(01:30:39):
even if you're comparing them the nat When they do
it right, they do it right.

Speaker 1 (01:30:44):
I think that's a good way to put it, you know.
I mean, you want to see him get it right
more often, and I think they could. It's you know
that you can't hot shot every week, a title change.
You can't haven some man come out every week, or
vinc man coming out doesn't mean anything anymore. But yeah, Jason,
this this was evidence that you know again, I said
at the top of the show, people, Wow, if you
hate us so much, why do you watch Well, it's

(01:31:04):
a stupid thing to say to begin with it. I'm
just gonna be blunt about it. You don't just give
up on something that you love because it has a
few bad weeks or even a bad year. If you're
a lifelong fan of something, and part of loving something
is it's not the stupid cliche love it or leave it.
If you love it, you stay around and you fight
for change that you think will make it better, and
you point out things that need to be pointed out,

(01:31:24):
Especially when Vince is surrounded by yes men who aren't
telling him what needs to be done, or he's got
people who aren't qualified and noticing what's wrong with the product.
So no, expressing discontent with something doesn't If you're upset
with your sports team, it doesn't mean you have to
then become a fan of the rival or quit watching
the sport. Part of watching WWE is is hanging around
for the ups and the downs. And I also said,

(01:31:45):
I've seen lower lows and I've seen higher highs, and
the bounce backs are a hell of a ride. They're
waiting around for them to fix the problems is one
of the more fun aspects of following wrestling for over
thirty years, well over thirty years, I've watch wrestling, and
everybody bounces back. The aw eight in WW didn't. I mean,
some promotions don't bounce back, but when they do, when

(01:32:06):
they're bounced backs, it's a lot of fun.

Speaker 4 (01:32:07):
Jason, it is, Yeah, without question, Hopefully this is that time.
I mean, they still have a lot to prove. The
flaws that we've seen in their game now for months
and months, many of them are still there. They had
two good knights. I mean that's really what it boils
down to. They had two good knights and they need
to be consistent with this, or we're going to be
talking about those same flaws come WrestleMania season.

Speaker 1 (01:32:30):
I agree. Okay, let's try nine to three to one,
nine three one. Please state your name of the city or.

Speaker 14 (01:32:35):
Call it from Charlie from Nashville.

Speaker 1 (01:32:38):
Hey Charlie, thanks of Colin, what have you got for us?

Speaker 14 (01:32:41):
At first, I wanted to say a good job on
the Stone Cold podcast. I really liked how you kept
your guns, how you disagreed with Stone Cold and you
stayed with it, which was really really cool. And the
other thing is with the problems that they're having with
the roster right now, why do we still see someone
like Damian Sandal sending out tweets saying please give me

(01:33:05):
a chance. I mean, the guy was so over not
too long ago, and he's having to sit on the
sideline when the roster is really needing help.

Speaker 1 (01:33:15):
Yeah, Jason Damien's one of those guys who I think
deserves better than what he has. It's one of those
situations where, yeah, he went along with kind of a
silly gimmick for multiple silly gimmicks, and I think it
has worked against him. And you know, now he's sort
of in that Zach Ryder spot of trying to find
a way to get noticed again. I think he deserves

(01:33:36):
better than what he's getting. Jason.

Speaker 4 (01:33:38):
Yeah. I mean this is like the third time in
third week in three weeks, I think we've had a
Sandow related question, and so I think there's a little
bit of an interest there still. I think the story
I was told him this again is that when he
was the money in the bank guy, he added a
little weight and he just kind of I think he

(01:33:59):
had some supporters that he may have lost they thought that, yeah,
and so you know that. I think that's part of
the issue there is that when he was given the ball,
there's some people that feel it felt like he dropped it.
You know, he didn't do enough with it. He didn't
keep himself in shape. And I don't know if he's
still paying the price for that or if it's just
kind of well, it's just, you know, they saddled him
with some bad gimmicks, and I'm hopeful that the idea

(01:34:22):
right now with him is just to keep him off
television for a little bit so that when he comes back,
they can kind of start from you know, he's fresh again.
You're not still thinking of miss Dow and the macho
Misow character or whatever the hell they were calling that thing,
and then they can just get back to the intellectual
savior or even a new gimmick whatever they have in mind.

Speaker 1 (01:34:43):
Very good. I want to thank all our callers, including
everybody still on hold. We've got to wrap up the
live portion of the show here and move on to
the VP Exclusive after show again. You can go to
prog Wrestling dot net and sign up for membership to
Jason's site get more insight like Jason just had on
Sandol and other things that he digs up from his
soul Versus. The dot Netweekly Show is a must listen

(01:35:03):
weekly podcast if you want to really be up and
ahead of the curve on pro wrestling, and that's available
if you go to progressing dot in net. Jason plugged
that earlier. The membership sign up link is over there.
Pw torch dot com slash go vip is the place
to go to sign up. That's pw torch dot com
slash go vip tomorrow, by the way, here at pw
torchlivecast dot Com. Pat McNeil joined by Travis Bryant for

(01:35:25):
a post NXT takeover wrap up show. They'll be live
on the air. We haven't talked a lot about much
at all about NXT takeover. We'll do some of that
in the VIP after show, but we'll have a live
postgame show. It's kind of cool, you know. We had
a caller from England say it's neat to not be
watching a pay per view in the middle of the night.
I think it's gonna be kind of fun not to
be doing a pay per view post analysis in the

(01:35:48):
middle of the night, you know, Att thirty eleven twelve.
It'll be nice to watch a show in the afternoon
and be able to do a live call in show
and some wrap up and then you know, be done
with be done with a workday. I mean, if I
had my way, I mean, I don't know. I guess
there'd be pros and cons, but it'd be kind of
fun to have at least a year. Jason, We're all
wrestling shows started at noon, so like normal people, we
could be wrapped up by five pm and have normal evenings.

(01:36:11):
But it's you know, like Baseball beat writers and NFL
and MMA reporters. I mean, it's just not the way
it works for us. But it's kind of nice having
an exception to that on Wednesday, so I'll check that out.

Speaker 4 (01:36:23):
You're not staying up for T and A at like
ten o'clock Central, Now, what do you mean, Well, they
got bumped. They got bumped by Destination America to the
late slot. Oh it'll be the Yeah, it'll be the
last one on Destination America by the looks of things.

Speaker 1 (01:36:38):
Oh well good. I have less stacked up on my
DVR headed into January with Lane Duck shows that don't
really matter, so I'd rather have the title matches live
on on was it January fifth or fourth?

Speaker 4 (01:36:51):
First Tuesday, January Day? January.

Speaker 1 (01:36:54):
We're going to talk about the exciting changes coming to
SmackDown too, Speculate what that could be, talk about Morownalo's background,
talk about Marl Renaldo's background, And I said earlier on
Twitter today that he's the only Although it kills my
voice when I do it, I have to basically direct
a glass of water afterwards. But I can do a
sort of half okay imitation of Marrow Ronalo. I cracked up.

(01:37:16):
Steve Austin wants with it, but that's about it, and
I can't do anything else. And Marrow like that, I said,
now I have a use for it. You know, now
that Marl's on SmackDown, I have more of a use
for it, And he retweeted it and favored it that
he liked that earlier today that I can do an
impersonation of Marrow Ronaldo. So we'll be talking about him
in the VIP after show NXG Takeover r Oh coming up,

(01:37:37):
some more insights from Jason on a variety of things
and a couple other things from Raw two, and we'll
check the v the email bag at PW Torch Livecast
at gmail dot com. By the way, the audible trial
is still available. So if you're gonna be doing a
lot of traveling this holiday season and you're gonna be
sitting in airports, or sitting in the car, or taking

(01:37:59):
long drives Gramma's house, whatever it is, why not sign
up now for audible take mmatorch dot com for daily
coverage throughout the day, every day of pro wrestling and
the world of Mixed Martial Arts and the Ultimate Fighting Championship.
Jason powlfrom Progressing dot Net, thank you so much.

Speaker 4 (01:38:15):
As always, Hey my pleasure. Everybody. Hit me up on
Twitter at pro Wrestling.

Speaker 1 (01:38:19):
Net excellent and on that note, until tomorrow where Travis
Bryant joins Pat McNeil for the NXT Takeover postgame show.
This is way Keller signing up. You don't have to

(01:38:44):
wait for the way Keller Pro Wrestling post show to
find out what I thought of Monday Night Raw and SmackDown.
Each week, you can check out my reports that are
updated live throughout Raw and SmackDown at pwtorch dot com.

Speaker 20 (01:38:56):
My written report.

Speaker 1 (01:38:57):
Will tell you what's happening in detail in case you
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torch dot com with a detailed written report with star ratings,

(01:39:18):
and of course you can find other TV reports from
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your first stop for TV and pay per view written reports.

(01:39:52):
All right, this is pw torch editor Wait Keller along
with progressing dot Nets Jason Powell and this is the
PW Torch Live Cast v IPF Show on Tuesday, December
fifteenth to twenty fifteen. Jason, do you think it would
be cruel to tweet road Dog and ask if ratings
are an archaic measurement?

Speaker 13 (01:40:13):
Well?

Speaker 2 (01:40:13):
I really am curious to see if they go back
to did you know and boast about their viewership numbers
next week as well. So I think it's it's certainly fair.
I would hope that someone already has and I'm guessing
they've already been blocked.

Speaker 1 (01:40:27):
Right, Yes, Yeah, the the hypocrisy of I don't know,
the apocaspy. I didn't want to get in trouble speaking
of Twitter for or you know, posting stuff publicly about
breaking consistency with the storyline and get in trouble for
that and now here Triple H's I mean, as somebody said,
he could be beat up and barely standing and all

(01:40:49):
of that, you know. I mean, it's not like this
huge violation of KFE. That's where I think it kind
of comes down to, how does he portray himself on takeover?
If he does come out, does he? I mean, it's
still weird because he's a bad guy on RAW, he's
a good guy in NXT. So if he acknowledges the
beat down from Roman, it creates some conflicting feelings for well,
are we supposed to cheer you for bringing us this

(01:41:10):
great show? Or are you that same guy? But if
he doesn't sell the injuries, I mean it, I just
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:41:16):
I just stay off of television. There's no need for him,
you know, I mean, I will, I will give them this.
If they had something with William Regal planned and he
had to I don't know, if he abruptly left the tour,
if this was kind of planned he knew he had
to go back with him being the on air authority figure.
If there's just something some real need for that role
and Hunter does it okay, because he's the only one

(01:41:39):
that's really associated with it with that now other than
I guess Michael Cole. But I'm guessing he's not making
the trip over. I could be wrong on it. Maybe
he is. You know, they had Cole kind of be
the guest in that spot. But if there's any way
to keep him off of the NXT shoe, I just
say they should. There's no need you want to have
a dark segment were T goes out and says something
to the crowd before or after. I don't care. But

(01:42:01):
you know, as far as the NXT specialist concerned, I
just I don't see why you would have him on
unless it's there's like a situation that I just mentioned.

Speaker 1 (01:42:09):
Yeah, yeah, no, I agree. I mean, I don't want
to don't want to belabor the point any more than
I might have already, but we'll keep an eye on things.
First of all, I mentioned probably six hours worth of
topics that we can get to, and there's so much
to talk about this week. I want to start with emails,
because I did push the email aspect of things, and

(01:42:31):
begin with a question from Brandy, who says, I really
enjoyed listening to you guys dissecting the pay per views.
I wondered if you had any opinions or insights on
a possible push for Curtis Axel. Speaking of people who
are not getting a push who once had some TV time,
I feel like he has made the best of the
boxes they have tried to force him into, but never
had a real push. He has disappeared since the Hogan incident.

(01:42:52):
Suddenly he had these really interesting vignettes on Twitter. I
hope it's a build toward the rumble because wwe never
got around to the never eliminated storyline, but they have
not pushed the vignettes on raw what's going on.

Speaker 2 (01:43:03):
I think that's your best bet if you're looking for
a little something with Axel, is to try to recreate
the fun of that from last year. It's just more
of an undercard thing they tried, you know, they did.
They gave him Paul Hyman as a manager, and he
that was flawed execution with you know, the way they
did things with triple age and all that. But I
just don't think it would have worked. I think he

(01:43:26):
is the you know, the prototypical good hand. I think
he has something to offer as a traveling enhancement guy,
you know that that's basically what his role is. And
until they can if they come up with something for
him where he's a better fit and it clicks, great,
But I just I don't think he has much charisma,
and I think that's the thing that always holds him back.

(01:43:48):
But so I just until they prove otherwise, I'm just
going to see him in that light.

Speaker 1 (01:43:54):
Another question, this from not Sure whose name it's on
signe but email I think says Karn Ambrose won the
title at TLC. I immediately wondered when Kevin Owens will
get his rematch. Has the idea that the former champion
gets a rematch run its course, it seems to hurt
the momentum of both people involved. Ps ilb beIN a
VIP member, Jason, I think former champions should get rematches,

(01:44:15):
although in real sports that's not always the case. Dana
White made it really clear Saturday night on Fox Sports
One that it's not a given that Jose Aldo is
going to be the first person who faces who faces
Connor McGregor in a rematch. You know, Jose might have
thought it wasn't a fight because he got knocked out
too quickly to qualify. Joe Rogan quickly corrected him and

(01:44:37):
one of the classic lines I've heard from an interviewer going, no,
that was a fight, just a really short one, breaking
the news to poor Jose. But you know, data said,
you know, you don't necessary depending on how you lose
and who the other contenders are. I mean, you don't always,
as a rule, get a rematch. So now I think
a champion should get a rematch, but I don't think

(01:44:59):
it has to be the next match or the first
defense of a champion. And that's a way to kind
of get around it is Ambrose can, excuse me, Owens
can have that rematch in his pocket for a while
and so they play it right away, or you know,
the promoter can make Owens mad by not giving it
to him right away and say you'll get one within
sixty days, but not right away.

Speaker 2 (01:45:17):
Yeah, and especially with the heel Authority figure, you can
do whatever you want. Let's be real here, But I
think Randy Orton wasn't that. One of his big complaints
is that he didn't get his They didn't give him
his rematch that he was supposed to get for the
longest time. I can remember some storyline about that with
Randy bringing that up. So yeah, I think Rains and
Seamus will probably see pretty quickly, maybe even on television. Again,

(01:45:41):
I don't think there's real box office in that. If
they can, I'd actually prefer it if they just tried
to rebuild Chamis and kind of kept them apart until
it mattered. I think there's something to shamous. I don't
know that he's ever going to be even a SummerSlam
main event opposite and rains kind of a guy. But
I still think there's you can do something with them.
But or at least it's worth taking the chance, it's

(01:46:03):
worth investing in him and finding out. So maybe stay
away from that, but it won't surprise me if they
go right back to it.

Speaker 1 (01:46:10):
I yeah, I agree. Okay, let's I'm going to try
to move quick in the normal through topics here. Chris
VIP member says, Hi, wait, I hope you will be
covering SmackDown more often in the way Keller hotline so
that we can hear your entertaining impersonation of Marrow Ronaldo.
Let's not be premature, Chris, for there's nothing it's not
necessarily entertaining. We'll find out how people feel like and
like I say, I can't do it for very long

(01:46:30):
without having a coughing fit. So but yeah, Jason, it's
a good lead into a more serious question, which is
Marrow and again, I mean, announcers have been wrong. Jerry
Lawler thoughts MacDonald's gonna be live when Booker t and
and Byron Saxton switched spots. I was told from someone
in w W explicitly you know, Booker was going to
change the way he announced this was this, You know

(01:46:52):
that there was gonna be a real distinct role. The
things are gonna be doing. I mean a lot of
times the best laid plans. Dixie Carter said, there's this
on this show on the live cast earlier this year, said, oh,
on Destination America is going to be a great partner,
and we're gonna have hidden cameras everywhere around the arena
in a really creepy way, filming people doing all kinds
of weird things. And it just felt so creepy for
the beginning. They really felt found no way to really
utilize it, and they dropped it. And so, I mean,

(01:47:15):
best lead plants, you know, I mean, it doesn't always
work out. That said, I'm intrigued. Marrow brings a more
a real authentic sports background. He's Mike Adamley on in
the credential department, you know that that maybe you know
they're like, oh, well, this guy's done real sports. We
like him and all that, and he's kind of got
that announcer way about him like Mike Adimley did, but

(01:47:37):
he actually knows what he's talking about and isn't a Moron,
So he's got a lot going for him compared to
Mike Adamley. Oh yeah, so your your thoughts on Morrow
as an announcer and how he'll fit in with SmackDown,
and then also what he's talked about already. I think
it was was it with Brian Fritz Jason? I want

(01:47:58):
to give credit.

Speaker 2 (01:47:59):
There were two different interviews she did. I think I
can't remember who the other one was with, or I'd
get I would too, I just don't remember.

Speaker 1 (01:48:04):
Yeah, but Mar's saying, you know, it's gonna be kind
of a hybrid with NXT and WWE. I get scared
when I hear that, because it makes me think someone
in WWE thinks they know what makes NXT special and
they're going to try to do part of it in WWE,
and it's going to suck. It's not going to be
what NXT is really all about. And I don't know
that you can mix the two of them. You know,
you kind of have to be one or the other.

(01:48:25):
I don't know how you you do what NXT does
while still doing with ww does. So I have to
see it in practice, right, But I'm intrigued that they
want to give smacked down its own identity. But again
I waived the caution flag because there was supposed to
be a change, you know, when they moved to Thursdays,
there was going to be a change in identity too
to smack Down, and it never happened, and it was
absolutely talked about behind the scenes, and it just goes

(01:48:46):
back to business as usual. But mar will give a
different feel to the show. So yeah, there's my there's
my question. Do you take it wherever you want to go?

Speaker 2 (01:48:53):
Yeah, there are a couple of indicators that they're serious
about making some changes, and one of them is Marrow.
You know, the fact that they're because Rich Brennan was
doing fine. I didn't have a problem with Rich Brennan
as the SmackDown voice. And so the fact that they
went through the trouble of bringing in Marrow Ronaldo from
the outside and didn't just bring him in as you know,
well he's gonna you know, call main event or something

(01:49:14):
like that, you know, they're they're they're putting him there,
making their announcing him as the voice of SmackDown. And
that's one and the other is obviously USA Network that
the show is moving to USA, and I think that
is what is driving the real change this time, because
I also think they're very sincere and they talk a
great name and the you know in the past about
making all these changes and then it's just you might

(01:49:37):
get a loaded show, maybe two, and then they just
kind of settle back in. I don't think that's the planning.
I really think they're serious this time, and I'm hopeful
that they are. I don't know about the whole NXT
thing either, you know, the whole hybrid of the two
if if they think it's because I mean it's it's
a continuation of raw. So unless there's a roster split

(01:49:57):
or something like that, I mean, you can make some
cosmetic changes, you can freshen up the music, and you
can have a different announcer. I just don't know, without
really splitting things up in some way, how different it
can be. But I'm open. I like just the idea
that they're tinkering with things. If I ever have to
hear that SmackDown thing again that it's never bothered me

(01:50:20):
until like the last six months, but that SmackDown thing
they play every time they put up a video or
a graphic, I just like cringe, No, like, oh, make
it stop and I'm sure I'll be that way with
whatever the new you know, if they have a new
theme song, give it a couple of years, you'll feel
the same way. Morrow is the interesting part here because
I think he's excellent at what he does. What he
calls those new Japan Pro Wrestling shows for access, those

(01:50:42):
are also great matches. Morrow is a great big match announcer.
And I think if he ever does get pay per
view time, Michael Cole is probably out of that job.
Not saying he's out of WWE, but I would think
that they're going to hear him call bring a big
match feel and they're going to love it, or they're
maybe they'll give Michael Cole a chance to you know,

(01:51:02):
shake things up. And but I think that it's funny
that they're you know, they clearly wanted out there that
Michael Cole was the guy who reached out to him
Morrow saying that in every interview. And but I think
that the areas where I worry about Morrow. How does
he do when he's calling our truth Bo Dallas and
some filler match on SmackDown? Can he tone it down?

(01:51:24):
How is he going to work with whoever the broadcast
team is, And He said in the interviews that he's
done with Brian Fritz and the other one that he
doesn't know who the broadcast team is going to be.
Is it still JBL Booker T? And if you're stuck
with Booker T, you know, good luck, JA. I guess
Jerry Lawler and Booker T. I would hope that they

(01:51:44):
change that as well. I'd like to see this thing
just get a complete makeover. Corey Graves would be fun.
I'd love to see them bringing Steve Carino, as far
fetched as that may be, uh to join him. But
I you know, there's there's a lot of questions, and
of course there's the issue of WWE tinkering. Well, you know,
Vince notorious for overproducing, and it's like he doesn't do

(01:52:04):
a lot with SmackDown, but will he now that it's
on USA Network. You know, it was interesting that Morrow
said he was hired by you know, basically Michael Cole
reached out to him. He had a conversation with Triple
H and Vince gave his blessing. So it's like he
hasn't even talked with Vince, So we don't even know
what that dynamic is like. And everybody can talk a
great game about they're going to let marrow b morrow,
but you need to hear that from Vince and you

(01:52:26):
need Yeah, Vince actually needs to even if he makes
that claim, follow through on it, because Vince can't help
himself sometimes when it comes to metaling.

Speaker 1 (01:52:35):
We are running our second VIP sale of the year.
You want to take advantage of this. If you've thought
of going VIP or let your sublaps had to step
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Pw torch dot com slash Go Vip tells you about
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(01:52:57):
those three options. The coupon code is an OV twenty
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take nine dollars off. That brings a one month sub
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(01:53:19):
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(01:53:41):
minutes in terms of podcast length. And it is a
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I'm going to try to increase that as my schedule
adjust to this new feature. So check it out. Pw
Torch dot com slash go VIP coupon code n ov
twenty twenty five to take nine dollars off a one month,
three month or one year. So oh, I know. And

(01:54:03):
the thing is, I could hear Vince just listening Tomorrow
one time and Kevin Dunn doing what he can do,
which is plant that little seed in Vince's ear, and
then Vince starts producing Morrow, and they're just doing what
they're just beating them up, you know, just beating them
up over the headset. Mick Foley got beat up over
the headset, Taz got beat up over the headset, Josh
Matthews beat up over the I mean just it's Jim Ross,

(01:54:25):
Jim Ross. It's what they do. And somorrow can say
this is a lifelong dream job of his. But when
he's sitting in that chair and he's being treated unprofessionally
over and over again and it's destroying any kind of
rhythm and vibe, he can get into calling that show
and then he eventually he goes, well, the money's good,
and I like being on the road with these wrestlers.

(01:54:46):
I'm a wrestling fan, so I'm just gonna do what
I'm told, and you know, just do what I'm told
and go along with it. Is he going to be
the same guy? So yeah, I mean plenty of yellow
caution flag waving here. But it is interesting. Row is
a genuine fan. He respects what Jim Ross brought to announcing.
He gets the idea of what Jim Ross told me

(01:55:08):
last Thursday on the live cast, which is Bill Watts
told me treat it like a shoot, you know, and
and when you're on the air, treat it like a shoot.
Make it seem believable, and Marl's gonna do that. Marl's
also going to give Michael Kohla rubb for his money
from bouncing up and down while he talks on camera.
That's gonna be That's gonna be interesting too. Mario gets excited.
He and I like that. I Todd Grisham always bugged

(01:55:30):
me because Todd I always felt like he was he
was treating it like golf, you know, or tennis.

Speaker 2 (01:55:34):
You know, this is Ton in those dying days where
he's just sitting there with his head in his hand.

Speaker 1 (01:55:38):
Yes, but even Todd I always felt like he he
was worried. A buddy his from college was gonna flip
channels and see him on there and go, you're taking
that seriously. So he didn't take it seriously, you know,
And Marl's all o. Marro's friends know he takes it seriously,
you know. He He's the closest to Mick carsh you
can get in today's wrestling announcers. And I do make
fun of Marrow because I think his his his announcer
voice is cartoonish, and I think he takes it too far.

(01:55:59):
I do, And I'm curious how he's produced as far
as man goes, I think.

Speaker 2 (01:56:05):
Well, sorry interject, but how do you think it's gonna
go with if he brings that same passionate call to
some even throwaway main event tag team match on SmackDown,
Well then I mean, is it gonna feel like he's
just completely overdoing it? No?

Speaker 1 (01:56:22):
No, you're right it can he You're right? Can he
can his announcing match, the tone of the content that
he's calling, and that is important. I mean, you don't.
You don't want that false hype that doesn't ring true
if you're acting like something's a bigger deal than it is.
But I would say we've had such a shortage of

(01:56:42):
the other that I think fans would take it if
Marrow just seemed like the most easily excitable big Mark
to ever get a job on television, And we'll see,
you know what I mean. It's it's fun, it gives
it gives a new reason to watch, new reason to
watch SmackDown. Yes, I'll cover it more, of course than
I have, because if it's a different show than ours

(01:57:02):
four and five of Raw, that with stuff happening that
never gets talked about ever again and an announced team,
you know, it's been kind of a rotation of chairs.
I don't know how Tom Phillips and Rich Brennan feel
about being leap frogged. You know that they've been groomed
from within. Marrow did not need to go to NXT
to learn where the hard camera is, by the way,
he got to jump right to the sack down. So yeah,

(01:57:25):
it's a fun story.

Speaker 2 (01:57:26):
I mean, well, well, and one other thing to say
about this too, the whole browbeating thing, the Evince being
a tyrant through the headsets. Marrow has been very public
with the fact that he battles bipolar issues, and you know,
it's I would hope that he has you know, obviously
that everything is completely under control and it's not an

(01:57:48):
issue and he can handle the same level of Vince
McMahon nonsense as everyone else. But I would hope that
WWE is at least aware. I'm sure they are, but
I would hope that that it's going to be kept
in mind before or Vince does his his his bs
that he just be rating people through the headsets. I mean,
it's just not something that he should be messing with.

(01:58:09):
I mean, he shouldn't do it to anyone, but obviously
it broke his relationship with Mick Foley for a while
and Taz for a while, and so I just hope
that it's something that he keeps in mind.

Speaker 1 (01:58:20):
Uh what's your quick opinion on Rose Bush.

Speaker 2 (01:58:24):
I'm not a fan. I thought last night was just
it was edgier, which is what I think it needs
to be if it's going to last. Forget the stupid
photoshop gags. There were some of that last night. I
thought last night was.

Speaker 1 (01:58:37):
Just he Dreamer sucking down or not in real life?

Speaker 2 (01:58:41):
Yeah, God, I'm.

Speaker 1 (01:58:42):
Assuming he was. I don't think that was photoshop, but
I could be wrong.

Speaker 2 (01:58:46):
Yeah, who knows. But I mean, you know they still
like the you know, the the super Tan Tommy and
all that. I mean, it was I guess if I
had to compare it to the first two weeks, better
but not a hit it certainly. It's just it was
mean spirited with what there was about Rick Flair, it's
all true and you know, pointing out Dreamers bald spot.
I think it needs that. I don't think it's being

(01:59:07):
written well. I think now they're just trying to be
mean and snarky. But it's too mean and maybe they'll
find them find their group with it. But I still
don't know what purpose it's really serving.

Speaker 1 (01:59:18):
I don't want it to be a vessel for Vince
to take juvenile, mean spirited, cheap shots at people. You know,
it's like the jock's making fun of the chubby kid
and Jim class. You know that that's just that's you
know that that plays into Vince's reputation for being a bully.
And and yes, well that what I was protest too much?

(01:59:41):
So yeah, and I thought, I mean the Rick Flair thing.
Rick jokes about that a lot. You know, he's on
a show, and it's not like he makes a secret
of it. But it's kind of like, I get to
make fun of my family. You don't. I get to
make fun of myself. You don't. I hope they run
this stuff by the people that are making fun of
now Tommy Dreamer, I'm all for making fun of him
because's prett was ridiculous. And my god, what a bald spot.

(02:00:04):
I do not like anybody who's bald. I think that
makes you a bad person. I think that you don't
belong on television. If you have a bald spot, you
certainly shouldn't be wrestling. If you have a bald spot,
I think that this is the kind of real truth
telling that fans have been waiting for in raw.

Speaker 17 (02:00:23):
No.

Speaker 1 (02:00:23):
I mean, yes, I made fun of Tommy's free ten
last week, but I'm not sure that the wrestling promotion
should be in the business of doing that and calling
somebody thin skin for not taking to it well. And
you know, I mean, is, let's put it this way.

Speaker 2 (02:00:37):
Let's accentuate the negatives.

Speaker 1 (02:00:39):
Is Rose? Is Adam Rose next week going to be
able to play a slow motion clip of Vince McMahon
trying to lift one of his legs over the middle
rope to step out of the ring and struggling to
do it. Is he gonna do that? Is he gonna
say this? Old man, vincient man, look at the bags
under his eyes. I've never seen sanility. So is coming
on live on television. I thought he lost ten IQ

(02:01:02):
points while we were watching him. He's getting sold so faster,
you know whatever, Just a bunch of old age jokes,
but like really like hitting too close to home on
like actual footage of Vince looking old and maybe zoom
in on a close up of his face and start
picking it apart like that would not be allowed. And
that's what makes this wrong. You're not going to be
allowed to make fun of Stephanie. Maybe Hana would allow

(02:01:22):
a little bit of it, you know, in a certain realm,
but probably not as mean spirited as as the Tommy
Drimmer stuff came across in the Rick Flair stuff. So yeah,
I mean, I'm curious to watch it, But this is
Vincent man. If you know his history and you know
what he's like behind the scenes, this does seem a
little bit too much like a vessel for one of
the worst aspects of vincick Mann, the person.

Speaker 2 (02:01:40):
It does.

Speaker 1 (02:01:41):
Yep, let's see. Oh Vincent Mann's performance though, Jason, what
did you think of how he performed?

Speaker 2 (02:01:50):
I think he's way too over the top. I think
the character is now a parody of itself. Mister McMahon
was always over the top. This goes too far. I
think he lost the crowd with some of it was
the odd commercial break and having him out there to
sit there in the chair through the break. But I
think he goes too far, and I wish he could

(02:02:11):
kind of find that groove that he once had where
he knew where that line was. And this has been
a problem with Vince in recent years. Ever, since you know,
when he started making the more sporadic appearances as the
mister McMahon character. He tends to just go way over
the top with these things, and I it's still you know,
it works as far as like people tune in because

(02:02:33):
they know Vince McMahon is on there. But I mean,
if anyone missed it lastly, just go back and listen
to that crowd. They were so excited to see Vince
McMahon and that kid at ringside was just giddy And
I'm like, how does he know Vince McMahon anyway, But
I mean I guess yeah, but no, I mean they
were they were thrilled to see him, and he really
did lose that crowd. There was one point, you know,

(02:02:55):
we were talking about the uh, I know, you were
putting that that Roman Reigns clip out there where he
looked kind of looked like, oh man, I lost him
and he knew it. There's one with Vince last night
for sure, if you go back and watch him in
the ring kind of looking around after he says you're fired.
The crowd was not into that and as much as
Vince expected them to be, and so you could kind

(02:03:17):
of see Vince looking like really it was actually very comical.
But I think he has himself to blame for that.

Speaker 1 (02:03:24):
Yeah, and you know, I thought it there's there's part
of the old Vince and then you can tell something's
not the same with him, and people say that behind
the scenes, you know what, it's just it's just aging,
you know, I mean he was so in control alpha
the groveling voice. But you know, we heard I don't

(02:03:45):
know how long ago it was he did. Was it
an old timers show whatever they call it, the legend
edition of R or something where they Evince did commentary
for a match or two.

Speaker 2 (02:03:53):
I don't even remember the probably like old school raw
something like that.

Speaker 1 (02:03:59):
It was an old school rob probably that he did
commentary for a match or two. And it was like, wow,
you know that that deep, that deep, just motor, that
that BMW motor of a voice that he had sounded
a little shaky. You know, it's just it just you know,
it just happens. I mean, it is what it is.
And yeah, and you know Vince might call himself got
almighty and be over the top and joke that you know,

(02:04:20):
I'm not I'm not. You're gonna have to pry the
booking pencil from my cold dead hands and I'm never dying,
So it's you know and all that stuff. I mean,
it's had a die in the chair, yes, but but
still yeah, it's it's like you watch it, but there's
part of you that's a little eh, it's you know,
he can't do it anymore? Does he know it? And

(02:04:43):
all that. So a small dose as a novelty for
a very specific, meaningful purpose, I think it worked. I'd
be curious how much he strayed from script and right,
you know, what was planned? And then did he just
get wrapped up in the moment and improvise either as

(02:05:03):
a defense mechanism for kind of maybe forgetting a spot
or because he got just excited in the Adrelline rush
and I'm just man, damn it and he just went off.
You know, like I'd be curious what was planned versus
what we saw on TV and if there are any
differences there.

Speaker 2 (02:05:16):
And if the agents were there to browbeat him afterwards
for doing for strained from the script. Yes, yes, I'm
gonna guess not.

Speaker 1 (02:05:23):
No, but you know there, Vince, I mean I was
listening to a ten years ago Wade Killer hotline. I
was talking about how people are saying behind the scenes,
Vince is getting really erratic, temperamental, unpredictable. He's intimidating people more.
It's you know, he's using intimidation tactics and all that. That
was you know a little over ten years ago. This
stuff started a surface and he was still you know,
late fifties or just turned sixty, I guess at that point.

(02:05:46):
So I think people got a glimpse even though he
was in character and over the top, imagine that toned
down only thirty percent in real life, and that you
offer him the wrong chair to sit on and freaks out,
you know that kind of thing. Sure, I will say
my favorite part though, is when he got out of
the limo and he starts walking, and you know he's

(02:06:06):
got he's trying to look like not Grandpa Vince, who
just got out of a wheelchair. He's trying to look
like I'm still mister McMahon and you know them, yeah, exactly,
the BMF walk. But what I loved is there was
like this worker off to the screen, right, you see
a glimpse of him, and he just like leaped backwards
in fear when Vince shot him a look like just
leap backwards. He would have jumped off a cliff to

(02:06:28):
avoid Vince mcmon's wrath at that point. And I mean
it was it was over the top, but in campy,
but it was actually I thought it was. It was
funny for for what it was there. So yeah, I
mean it popped a rating. I think Vince helped get
Roaman over. But there's something else eitherre is something else
going on in terms of the aging and the lack

(02:06:50):
of being able to pull off the same person that
he was at his peak as a character.

Speaker 2 (02:06:53):
Was stone culled? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (02:06:55):
Yeah?

Speaker 24 (02:07:02):
Are you a fan of AW looking to sit back,
relax and listen to some like minded podcasters who share
your passion?

Speaker 10 (02:07:09):
Do you want to be topped off the ledge after
a segment that has you wondering what the heck are
they thinking?

Speaker 24 (02:07:14):
Do you want to join a discussion on what AW
is doing right and what they could do to improve?

Speaker 10 (02:07:20):
Then join me Joel and me Greg for the All
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Cast feed. Search PW Torch in your podcast app and
subscribe to PW torch Daily Cast or stream our shows
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Speaker 1 (02:07:51):
All right, NXT takeover, anything jump out that you want
to talk about. I'm sure you're doing plenty on on
the dot net member side of things, you know, all
week and all that, But anything jump out on the
show that you think is a real talking point.

Speaker 2 (02:08:04):
Well, I think the results really of the title matches,
the women's and the men's are going to be very
interesting and not just for you know, who's the new champion,
but are they going to be calling somebody up soon?

Speaker 16 (02:08:15):
You know?

Speaker 2 (02:08:15):
If in Ballard loses, you certainly have to wonder, okay,
is he an XT bound and Bailey With the complete
lack of babyfaces on the On the diva side, there's
Natalia who's never on TV, and there's Becky Lynch, and
then I guess some segments the bellis but I don't
count them as babyfaces. And so you have Team Bad,
you have Charlotte. I mean, there's just all of these

(02:08:38):
heels right now. I really wonder with the if that's
part of the motivation for turning Charlotte is the intention
of calling up Bailey and doesn't have to necessarily be
on this show. But I think it's it's it's at
least possible that, you know, if you see a title change,
I think the natural thing to do is wonder, is
this Bailey's time? Or is this Balor's time? And heck, waight,

(02:08:58):
even if Ballard retains the title, I'm gonna be hopeful
that maybe this is Joe's time.

Speaker 1 (02:09:03):
I know. Yeah. I think Bruce often says he doesn't
think Joe was necessarily going to be on the main
roster or would fit in, and I just disagree. I
think Joe's main roster ready, and he's not too old
to be there. He's not. There's nothing about him that
I mean, I can only imagine how many times you'll
have to talk about, you know, how he eats carbs

(02:09:24):
and never does cardio and drink seventeen mountain dews a
day and gorges on on fried pig lard ears or something.
I mean, yes, I mean, it's just I sort of
fear how they'll portray him. But I mean, Joe, if
they if they produced him and presented him right, I mean,
he's somebody not necessarily before WrestleMania. But I'd love to

(02:09:45):
see him aded that the mix after WrestleMania thirty two.

Speaker 2 (02:09:47):
I would too. I'd like to see him added now,
you know, I really would if it was the right setup,
Like let's say, seeing who doesn't have a dance partner
for Mania. There you go, Samoa Joe. You can play
on their history, as we've talked about before. I really
wonder I'm not trying to call out Bruce. I maybe
follow up next time and ask him, and maybe you
already have.

Speaker 1 (02:10:08):
He's told me I'm not allowed to disagree with him anymore.
I can't. I can't challenge him on anything.

Speaker 2 (02:10:12):
But I do wonder wood if Kevin Owens were still
at n XT, would he be thinking similar things about him.

Speaker 1 (02:10:19):
I think that if there's any difference, it's just that
Joe is older by I don't know, six years or
somebody six seven years, okay, And so you know, I
think that's kind of what plays into with this idea.
You know, I think people looked at at Joe and
I think someone are saying, well, maybe it's more like Rhino.
He's there, he's there to teach the younger guys how
to work. But really it's it's too it's too late

(02:10:39):
for him at eight. You know he'll be thirty. Well,
he's thirty six. He'll be turning thirty seven before WrestleMania.
And you know that's just a few years too late
to really have us invest in you. And I mean,
I totally disagree with that. And there's a I mean,
Joe was won the Torch Pole Reader poll for number
one overall draft picking. Anybody in the entire industry if

(02:11:01):
you were to start a wrestling promotion from scratch with
whatever vision you wanted, he won back when he was
a standout performer in r OH, Right, So this isn't
some you know, this isn't I mean Robert Root. People
respect his work. He's been a world champion. People like him.
You don't hear a bad thing about him. Maybe you have, Jason,
you can tell us next. But I mean, but but

(02:11:22):
I don't think that Robert Rut has ever been anybody's
number one draft pick, you know, But Joe has.

Speaker 2 (02:11:29):
There's somebody he's the number one in factor.

Speaker 1 (02:11:31):
He has the it factor. Yes, or maybe he said
that because that's what's missing and he was trying to
make up for it. I don't know. So yeah, I
mean I I think Joe has something and it's just
a matter of is it something that that Vincent and
company recognize or do they see other things that most
people don't dwell on and lose their way? So how

(02:11:53):
about r O H. What do you see coming up
for their uh uh? There is this? Would this be
considered their biggest show with the hear? Does it just
kind of head on where feuds peak?

Speaker 4 (02:12:01):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (02:12:02):
Yeah, they do build the Final Battle. It's built as
you know, they're they're they're a big show of the year.
I mean, they have anniversary shows and things of that nature,
but Final Battle is traditionally it feels that way and
I think this one, I guess yeah, you know, and
this one no exception. I think this is probably the
best pay per view lineup they put out there. Certainly
when you see Jay lethal aj styles in the main event,

(02:12:23):
that's something to be excited about. And then one of
the things, in addition to just as being a really
good lineup on paper, there's so much going on behind
the scenes with contractual status, is that you know. We
talked back in the dot in Weekly Audio show on
November twenty fifth, the day before Thanksgiving. I think it
was about all the contract issues, the same one where

(02:12:45):
we broke the news of their contractual or their working
agreement with Pro Wrestling Guerrilla that finally came out over
the weekend. And there are so many guys right now
that have deals expiring, and you know there's going to
be people that naturally go, Ah, they're probably all staying
put where they and to go. And XT is interested
in a number of these guys. I know TNA has
expressed some interest in some of these guys, and so

(02:13:06):
you know, you see Adam Cole, for instance, talking about
how he's going to finish off Kyle O'Riley, and I
think that, you know, the the him saying that probably
was prior you know, he's going to be done in
Ring of honor forever. And I think him saying that
was done prior to the contract negotiations stalling. But that
may come true because at last check, and it was

(02:13:27):
sometime I think late last week that I asked, it
was like, no, there's still a standstill there. You know,
they're not even talking about this right now. R O H,
Bobby Fish, Kyle O'Riley, Jay Lethal's deal is coming up.
I mean, there's just a long list of people, and
so just to kind of watch that show play out
and see the different finishes and see if they do
end up essentially writing some people out. I think it's

(02:13:48):
interesting to watch on that level as well.

Speaker 1 (02:13:50):
I do too. Yeah, that's that's really good points for sure.
And there's Yeah, it's it's interesting when you watch the
show to watch it because you want to see good matches,
but when there's polytical undercurrents, there's a whole other, whole
other layer to kind of appreciate about the show. So
that is good. I want to see if there's another
email or two here we're taking. If not, we can.

Speaker 2 (02:14:11):
Yeah, while you're looking for that, all also say it
doesn't if there's things that don't happen at the pay
per view, keep it on those television tapings that'll be
coming up too, because they could just diseasily do it there.

Speaker 1 (02:14:20):
That's a good point. Yeah, it doesn't look like anything
else on email that we either haven't covered or is
way too long. So Jason, what is there any anything
else you want to talk about? Where it just past
the thirty minute mark on the VIP after show, So
certainly we can wrap up if we think we covered everything.

Speaker 2 (02:14:35):
I think we got to all the major stuff, and
you know, it's going to be a lot of audio
on both sites coming up here with the NXT and
Ring of Honor still to go, so it's going to
be a fun week. I definitely am looking forward to,
even it's gonna be a busy one. Definitely looking forward
to the next few days, and of course Star Wars
coming up on Thursday, which I will be I don't
know if you know it's what. I'm seeing it before
we'll prove it, really I am. Yeah, I don't like

(02:14:58):
to flaunt it, but I am seeing it before we'll.

Speaker 1 (02:15:00):
I'm not seeing it till Saturday, so I think everybody
will see it before me, although I am tempted. I've
been so I'm really dead set on avoiding spoilers. Oh yeah,
so much that I still haven't seen episode three, and
I haven't I haven't seen an episode I got, so
I was so bored by the first two I I
don't think I ever saw episode three. But I am
so dead setting on spoilers that I'm a little worried

(02:15:22):
the new movie coming out is gonna have spoilers, so
I might actually even not watch the movie just to
avoid spoilers.

Speaker 2 (02:15:29):
I don't want to spoil anything for you, but Anakin
sky Walker becomes Darth Vader Wig.

Speaker 1 (02:15:33):
Oh no, no, don't say that too luck because there
could be you know, somebody driving around with their kid
and they got, they got. They have a marathon planned
of watching six episodes of Star Wars with their kids
in a lead up to see in the movie. And
now they're like, huh.

Speaker 2 (02:15:50):
So you just I apologize story.

Speaker 1 (02:15:55):
Someone's been trying so hard to hide that.

Speaker 11 (02:15:57):
No, you've gone it.

Speaker 1 (02:15:58):
Would you like to say anything about Santa while we're
at it? Jason?

Speaker 2 (02:16:02):
It's Santa's a wonderful person. It's that time of year
where I write letters to Santa and hope for the best,
hope that you know, the the last minute butt kissing
campaign will make up for all my wrongdoings.

Speaker 1 (02:16:12):
Very good, Thank you dot nmembers, VIP members on behalf
of Jason Polo. This is worl verdollos signing off if
you missed it earlier, just a reminder we're running our

(02:16:33):
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Take nine dollars off a VIP subscription a one month,
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(02:16:55):
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(02:17:16):
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Speaker 2 (02:17:25):
Searching for more great pro wrestling talk, then join me
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Each week you'll hear the latest news and analysis from
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(02:17:47):
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Thanks for listening to our podcast. Did you know we
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Create a tab or bookmark, make it a daily stop.
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