15 YRS AGO: Cena-Barrett, Samoa Joe's future, WWE-UFC Cole-Lawler, NXT season four premiere, Triple H's return

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 2 (01:36):
Now. Pw Torch and Spreaker bring you the Wade Killer
Pro Wrestling Podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:47):
Fifteen years ago. This week Pat McNeil joined me and
we took live calls and talked about a why To
ray of topics, including NXT's season four premiere, which included
Jason Bateman, Our Truth Byron Saxton and brought us Clay,
also Triple Ah's return, WWE and USC in that Dynamic,
the Michael Cold Jerry Lawler situation, Simoe Joe's future, fascinating

(02:07):
topic and more so Let's get to it. This originally
live streamed on December eleventh, twenty ten, and it is
Today's wad Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast fifteen years ago flashback
for Thursday, December eleventh, twenty twenty five. Pat, why don't
you officially kick us off? We've got the nice, softy
music in the background. What do you have to say
to the people?

Speaker 2 (02:27):
Hello you people?

Speaker 1 (02:29):
Thank you? Very okay?

Speaker 2 (02:30):
Ever is my god? I'll allus go with hello you people,
let's get let's let's get right to it.

Speaker 1 (02:35):
Well, we've only wasted fore or four minutes already, so
what's another ten seconds? But all right, off to a
smooth the smoothest start we've had all year, I would say, Actually,
I think we've got a couple little bit worse than this.
This is the PW Torch Live Cast. I am the host,
Wade Keller, editor and publisher of the PW Torch Newsletter
and Pro Wrestling toorch dot com. Joined today by Pat McNeil,

(02:57):
a steam columnist for the prosing Torch Newsletter and pw
storg dot com. And it is what is It? Wednesday,
December eighth, two thousand and ten. Got a lot to
talk about today, including the debut of NXT Season four
last night, which I had a chance to watch most
of yes earlier today online and also the A and

(03:18):
E special with Bob Saget, which I thought they did
a nice job with that. We'll talk a little bit
about that. We had some fun quotes from nxts that
are worth bringing up. I did just post my daily
blog over at Wade Keller dot com where I listed
some of the best quotes from NXT and they were good.
There were some good funny lines I thought last night,

(03:39):
my favorite coming from Johnny Curtis who said a vote
for me is a vote for freedom. That was one
of my favorites. There was one other really good one.
Oh yeah, Connor O'Brien said, my whole life, I've been
made fun of for the simple fact that I look
like a rat. So anyway, some good writing. I don't
know if they came up with themselves or had writers

(03:59):
doing but good stuff on NXC least night, Patt, it's
nice to see them taking the season more seriously than
the last time. Michael cole Not on commentary, Todd Grisham
and Josh Matthews on commentary Your thoughts on the new
announce team, which said they are the most photogenic an
ounce team in history.

Speaker 2 (04:17):
Well, it's definitely an improvement. I mean, if you're not
going to if you're not going to talk about how
awful the show is, you know, every every day, when
you're every week when you're on it, I think that's
a step in the right direction.

Speaker 1 (04:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (04:28):
And you know, if and you know, whether Michael Cole
is the number one announcer, Michael Cole is about to
become a heeled manager. Either way, it's pretty much a
waste of time to have him on the show, all right,
that's yeah.

Speaker 1 (04:41):
I thought I thought the cast looked pretty promising in
terms of their look, their personalities. I thought it was
a good just a good mix of different body types,
which is nice to say. I mean not as most
of them were quite similar, but you know, there were
some variations. Brotus Clay is the big guy the group,
he said, I'm coming to this competition with lemon juice

(05:03):
and razor blades. Okay, Daniel Bryan has the most manly
apparently the most manly. Uh rookie, he said, My rookie
is manly, so manly, oh so manly. His name is
Derek Bateman. I'm not quite sure even what that meant.

Speaker 2 (05:16):
Uh real, he's a real manly man's man.

Speaker 1 (05:19):
Yes, but I'm not quite sure what his name has
to do with that, but maybe I.

Speaker 2 (05:22):
Just well, let's see, okay, Uh, Jason Bateman played a
character called Derek on Silver Spoons thirty years ago.

Speaker 1 (05:31):
So Darren Bateman, uh, Chim fifty five in chat room,
you got to tell me what the heck you're talking
about when I'm not crediting you for something that I
apparently I don't know. I don't know what he's talking about,
he said, I'm passing off to these ideas.

Speaker 2 (05:44):
My so, so I'm supposed to go into the chat room. Okay,
I'll get on there.

Speaker 1 (05:48):
I should go on the chat room too. Let's uh,
let's see if Chim wants to, he says, he jests, okay,
he well, let's see anyway, the uh where was I?
Where the heck was anyway?

Speaker 2 (06:00):
We're talking about that next tree and how excited thing
it was.

Speaker 1 (06:02):
Well, our truth said regarding his rookie he's the hottest
thing since Grits, which I thought it was kind of funny. Anyway, Yeah,
so I would recommend checking it out online. I mean,
I think there's some prospects in there, some good personalities.
Brian Byron Saxton, former ECW color commentator co host, very briefly.
He now is a wrestler. So anyway, yeah, I think

(06:23):
it was a promising start. I mean they still had
you know, a relay race competition and that type of thing,
But I don't know. The A and E special last
night with Bob Saget his his TV series, I thought
he did a nice job giving us a look at
the mentality that goes into becoming a backyard wrestler and
indie wrestler with DGUSA visited liber Group two. Roddy Piper

(06:45):
was part of the show. I thought that that worked,
you know, I mean with who we've seen Roddy wax
wax philosophical and and get all very serious and all that.
We've seen it so many times. It doesn't quite have
the impact on us. I think that it does on
the host, who's thinking, allow this stage is giving me
all this insight. But I thought Roddy did a nice
job with it, you know, in the context of the show,

(07:08):
and gave some good advice to wrestlers, saying, don't go
out there to perform, you know, go out there and
feel the crowd. And I thought that was uh, you know,
pretty good advice. Sometimes you get the sense that wrestlers
are performing and not fighting and not reacting to the crowd.
So I don't know, you know, it was. It was
a nice half hour special. It's it's available online. We've
got a link to it on pw torch dot com
if you're interested and you actually get to see gay

(07:29):
Sepalski on camera, introduced Roddy Piper, a rare speaking role
for on camera.

Speaker 2 (07:34):
That experience. Yeah, that that's got to be a treat.

Speaker 1 (07:36):
That is, Oh, it is a treat anytime we can
see Gabe. Yeah, all right here, our phone number is
six four six seven nine A two eight. That's six
four six seven two one nine eight two eight. We
will be taking calls as long as they are coming in,
and we can talk about more things Pat as the
show progresses. We haven't gotten a chance to talk to

(07:58):
you on the live cast yet about raw and we
will do that as the show progresses. But why don't
we just move into phone calls and see if the
callers can can save us from a rough beginning here
on the show with some good comments and questions. And
we'll begin with Erico two eight one. You're on with
Wade and Path. Please stay your name and where you're from.

Speaker 3 (08:15):
Hey guys, is Dad Houston?

Speaker 4 (08:16):
How are you doing to day?

Speaker 1 (08:18):
Doing good?

Speaker 5 (08:18):
Jay?

Speaker 1 (08:18):
Thanks for going again?

Speaker 3 (08:21):
All right?

Speaker 4 (08:22):
My question is about Samoa and Joe. All right, since
he's working for TNA and he's not in the contract,
you know, I am just hoping and playing he makes
that jump to.

Speaker 6 (08:35):
The ww Do you want I know that that They were.

Speaker 4 (08:39):
Saying that he hasn't had any negotiations with him, but
do you think if they showed any interests he would jump?
And do you think there's any chance of that happening?

Speaker 1 (08:50):
We talked about that yesterday Pat Jason and I did.
We got a similar question and the kind of speculated
about whether you know Joe, Joe's lifestyle might fit t
and a better You know, what might be a case
where if he can make a get a six figure
salary out of it and not have to deal with
all of the demands and rules and regulations and schedule
and all that at WWE, he might be in a

(09:12):
comfort zone in TNA, and and he's been there a
long time. And I think part of his negotiations is money,
and part of it probably is a little bit you
know his push, But I I'm not saying that Joe
wouldn't get over in WWE. If vincic Mann wanted to
make money with Joe, he could, But I also think
TNA could make money with him, and I'm not quite
I guess I'll throw to your pet and you can

(09:33):
go anywhere you want with this. But one question after
you is if, if, if, do you think there's a
better chance in twenty eleven that vincic Man or TNA
would would do, would be more likely to give Joe
the type of push that would reach his potential.

Speaker 2 (09:50):
Well, that's that's a good question, because you know, five
years ago, before Joe went to TNA, there was there
was a better shot that he would end up in WWE,
and obviously he didn't. I'm trying, I'm trying to think
the right way that this is not the same Samoa
Joe as five years ago.

Speaker 6 (10:05):
He is.

Speaker 2 (10:05):
You know, he has done a lot to his body.
He has been he has been hurt, he is he
has been in pain. You know, it's it's I mean,
you're not getting the same Samoa Joe that was putting
out those sixty minute matches against them Punk. Now I'm
not saying that he couldn't do that. I'm just saying
it'd be a lot more difficult.

Speaker 1 (10:22):
For him, right Uh.

Speaker 2 (10:23):
I don't know who's gonna I don't know who's gonna
treat him better. I suspect honestly, it would be Uh,
it would be TNA right now. And I don't think
that Joe wants to go to WWE and make the
same amount of money and work twice as many dates
and not get treated with, you know, and not get
treated as and as uh as even a mid cord wrestler.

Speaker 1 (10:44):
Necessarily, anytime you're watching ww E Raw or SmackDown or
AEW Dynamite in particular, send us an email if you've
got thoughts on the show or a topic you want
us to address, or a question for us. Wade Keller
Podcast at pw torch dot com, Wade Keller Podcast at
peak w toorch dot com. If there's anything else going

(11:04):
on in pro wrestling that you want us to address
on our main podcast during our mailbank segments, that same
email applies Wade Keller Podcast at PW torch dot com.
We invite that interaction, let us know what you think
of what we're saying and let us know what you
want us to talk about and ask us specific questions.
Wade Keller Podcast at PW Torch dot com. I think

(11:26):
the good thing about going to WWWE for Joe is
even though he'd work more days, in all likelihood, I
think they would because they're pretty good about this. And
Jim Ross wrote about this in his blog today regarding
Ray Masterial. Somebody ask Jim Ross why did Ray Masterio
get over and Ros said, you know, primarily, it's the
IT factor. Not every lucha guy who can do high
spots to the factor and Ray new English very very well,

(11:48):
and that's huge, you know it is. It is helpful
in a business build largely around promos if you can
talk to the fans. But also Ray knew that he
should and this was with guidance and perhaps early resistance
on his part, but guidance from WWE. It's let's pick
out three or four key moves and those are what
you're going to be known for. You don't need to

(12:08):
do one hundred moves like the Motor City machine Guns
and generation be displayed on pay per view on Sunday.
That's not going to get you over doing not on
a large, large scale and even more important, it's not sustainable.
Bringing that back to Joe, I think WWE would take
Joe's strength and maybe they would get him. They would
get him to focus on doing three or four or

(12:29):
five signature things well and otherwise pace him in a
way where he might last longer. Now that doesn't mean
he can't have great, great matches. It's just a matter
of working in the WWE style. And part of the
WWE style is and not everybody's perfect about this, and
not even everyone in WWE's made event agrees exactly how
to execute the style. But a broad stroke philosophy is,

(12:50):
have a few key moves that you do that nobody
else does, and work a style where it looks realistic
and it's paced in a sustainable way for their schedule
and and obviously there's pay per view and TV matches,
and then there's a house show style of working too.
Joe would probably work a more sustainable style in WWE
than he's likely to do in T and A to

(13:11):
try to stand out and please the smaller house show
crowds and continue to get the pops from the impact zone.

Speaker 2 (13:17):
And I don't think Joe will have that much of
a trouble adapting to the uh's WW made in that
style because he he doesn't do as many moves as
he used to when he was in Ring of Honor
and Ring of Honor. It's almost a competition to see,
you know, how many how many moves you can execute
and make them look good. So, yeah, it would freshen
up Joe and he needs it because right now he's

(13:41):
not as big as has been pointed out. He's not
as big a drawing card as he was before he
went to PNA, which him. We could say that about
several DNA guys.

Speaker 1 (13:51):
Yes, I agree. Well, Jay, once you chime in on this,
what do you think.

Speaker 4 (13:58):
I'm just tired of seeing Joe like being reduced to nothing.
I mean, I mean, honestly, I don't see whatever he
faces anybody who's older than him, like you just know
how it's gonna turn out. And for the life of me,
I can't understand why whybartin As still eighteen months building
up his reputation to be equal to what it was

(14:20):
Ring of Minor, just to immediately destroy it.

Speaker 3 (14:23):
As soon as Russo came in. So I was listening
to those old audios and before Russo.

Speaker 4 (14:28):
Came in they were doing Joe race, and then then
Russo came in with angles and use messed up the
visious Reney drunk money drawing max that they had in
three months. And I just can't understand. I can only
imagine what how.

Speaker 6 (14:46):
Joe feels about then Russo.

Speaker 3 (14:48):
And I honestly think it would because hey, seven of
the top fifteen nights who because if it doesn't worked out,
YO can go back to And it's because he's been
on the television. You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 4 (15:06):
On the Jay.

Speaker 1 (15:09):
I appreciate your comments. You're starting your connection was starting
to get really bad. So we're gonna leave it there
and we all come. Other people to call up and
give us their opinion on the Samo Joe Sweepsteaks such
as it exists. It sounds like, you know, Joe's probably
gonna stay in TNA. I don't think it's a And the.

Speaker 2 (15:25):
Answer to Jay's question is because they're moros.

Speaker 1 (15:29):
Thank you, Pat. Yes, numbers and statistics and reality, it
doesn't matter. It's just the planet, the booking philosophy planet
that Russoll lives on is is is what guides him,
not not actual facts and data and and uh and
new thoughts. Unfortune Unfortunately, you know, what worked once in
one set of circumstances doesn't work always in every circumstances
in every era with the same group of talent, and

(15:51):
Russo hasn't been real uh, real nimble when it comes
to adjusting his booking philosophy to take advantage of somebody
like Joe. All right, let's go to our next right
that what No, well.

Speaker 2 (16:01):
He's not the only one on there, but yeah, here's
the one.

Speaker 1 (16:05):
Yeah, yeah, all right, well let's go to our second call.
If you want to get in line on the phone
bakes only two people on hold the number six four
six seven one, nine eight two eight, and we don't
go to Eric code nine to one. Oh thanks for calling.
Please state your name and where you're from.

Speaker 6 (16:21):
You it Handibal for those killing Hey, how y'all doing, Hannibal?

Speaker 2 (16:24):
All okay, Yeah, The question.

Speaker 6 (16:28):
I want to ask you is this right here?

Speaker 1 (16:29):
What's youall think?

Speaker 6 (16:30):
This right here?

Speaker 2 (16:30):
You know?

Speaker 6 (16:31):
I think what against we so need to do? Is
this right here? I mean, I know the additude era
is oh wit, but at least go back and watch
similar storylines that you did and they did. WWE that
made sense? So that can help him make better sense
of the son the storylines of how they worked in
the WWE back then. So what's you'all taken on that.

Speaker 1 (16:53):
I'm always for looking back at old tapes and getting
inspired by them. I think you have to take into
account what you and this is the problem with RU
so as it goes back and looks I think too
much at some things that worked in the late nineties
and tries to reenact them, not taking into account the
fact that the reason things worked the way that they
worked in the late nineties was because of what fans
had seen for the previous three, four, five, six, seven, eight,

(17:16):
ninety ten years. Things that were shocking in the late
nineties or or novel or effective are not going to
be the same thing with a completely different group of
fans who grew up with a completely different type of
professional wrestling product. Those who grew up watching wrestling in
two thousand and three, if that was their first year,
are going to react totally differently in twenty ten to

(17:37):
then the way that the people reacted who grew up
watching wrestling in nineteen ninety how they reacted to things
in nineteen ninety seven, and plus the talent is different.
It's a completely different set of talent. And so I
think you can be inspired by old ideas, and I
think you should, but you shouldn't limit yourself to just
your own greatest hits. And I think you need to
learn and adjust to what works and what doesn't work
based on the talent you have, in the circumstances in

(17:57):
the timeframe. Pet.

Speaker 2 (18:00):
Yeah, I mean, yeah, we've we've seen it before with Russell,
he's just uh, I mean, you know, he doesn't believe
in in what he calls wrastling. You have to in
order to don't to buy that, you have to believe
that what TNA does is not wrestling, which you know,
unfortunately kind of is.

Speaker 1 (18:15):
Yes, Hannibal, what else? What's what else on your mind today?

Speaker 6 (18:20):
OK? Guys, I know a question I actually two weeks
ago about you know, about WWE not being consistent with
the storylines. I ne really care about the g TV,
But what about when the shamachers got thrown through the
windshield that time? He said the fans would have cared
for that storyline. They got away with not continue that
part of the storyline.

Speaker 1 (18:37):
Do you remember the windshield incident?

Speaker 2 (18:41):
Vaguely?

Speaker 1 (18:42):
Uh?

Speaker 2 (18:43):
See, I mean Yeah, there's sometimes that WW drops out
of storylines that they you know, that they don't like
or don't think they're getting over or just don't have
a way to finish. Yeah, I mean, I don't know
how that applies to have been through SO though or DNA.

Speaker 1 (18:57):
Yeah, Art, Hey Annibal, thanks for your call. Let's move
on to the next call are The area code is
seventy six. Thanks for colling. Please state your name and
where you're from.

Speaker 7 (19:06):
The able to wait is Johnny from Dallas.

Speaker 1 (19:08):
Hey, Johnny Fromdallas.

Speaker 2 (19:09):
Think for College Johnny. A quick question, Well, what do
you think when Triple H returns?

Speaker 7 (19:14):
Do you think they just do the surprise? I was
watching his DVD The King of Kings that are called
you think they should announced it? I did the first
time in two thousand and two.

Speaker 8 (19:22):
Keep showing vignettes or say the surprise everybody.

Speaker 1 (19:25):
What do you think that?

Speaker 2 (19:27):
Well, I think they are going to announce it when
it happens, because I think that their philosophy is, you know,
Triple H returning is going to be a big deal.
Triple H will will draw some interest for us, and
we want we want to capitalize on his return, make
people pay to see it. That's just my thought.

Speaker 1 (19:46):
Yeah, you know, I mean, I'm not sure. I don't
have a strong feeling that there's a right or wrong
way to do it. Johnny. I think if they think
Triple H, you know, being a surprise entrant in the
world Rumble, fits their storyline plans the best, and they
should do that. My hunch, I guess my hunch is
what Pat said. I think they probably do think it's

(20:06):
a big enough field that they'll pride promoted ahead of time.
If Triple H thinks he can pop a rating by
them announcing that he's returning, and if it fits the
storyline that they want to do with Seamus or or
Nexus or whatever Triple H returns to storyline wise, if
it fits, I think he might think I want to
I want to be responsible for popping a rating. Triple

(20:27):
H is also smart enough. He's done this over the
years to pick a show that he thinks is likely
to do well, such as, oh, I don't know, the
first show after Monday night Football ends and after the holidays.
You know, Triple H is smart enough, and he learned,
you know, learned this from watching Hogan and learned it
from Kevin Nash, who studied, Hogan, You're not. You don't

(20:48):
want to come back for against up against a Monday
night football game, you know, between the New York Jets
and uh, I don't know who's another, or you know
even you could even say the New York Jets side
New England Patriots game. You know, two huge market game teams.
You don't want to come back head to head with
them or on a holiday. So you know, timing wise,

(21:10):
you can make it a surprise, or you can hype
ahead of time. My hunches for Blade will try to
get credit for popping a rating, So I guess that's
where I come down talking it out.

Speaker 2 (21:18):
Yeah, maybe I can clarify that. I don't think it
matters if when Triple H shows up on RAW, it
could be a surprise, But I think Criple Ah's first
match back people are gonna have to pay for.

Speaker 1 (21:29):
Oh that I agree with. Yeah, yep, if you missed
it earlier. Just a reminder, we're running our second VIP
sale of the year. We don't do these often. Take
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Take nine dollars off a VIP subscription a one month,
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The coupon code is n o V twenty twenty five

(21:50):
as in November n V twenty twenty five, and that
takes nine dollars off. When you check out on our
sign up form pw torch dot com, slash o v
IP gives you full details on membership benefits and links
to our sign up form. Johnny anything else for us,
that's fine.

Speaker 7 (22:10):
I think they're gonna go with the season five next
uh NXT with all the guys that everybody's waiting for,
Ricky Steamboat and uh Dibofi's brother and all that. You
think they're gonna wait till they go for season five
or I don't tough enough.

Speaker 1 (22:24):
I don't. I don't think everybody has to go through NXT,
and I think some of the biggest prospects are not
going to go through relay raises and and being talked
down to and and being treated as a joke. And
I thought they did a better job last night not
treating everybody as a joke. But it I think NXT
is for the second tier prospects. Now. I think the
first season kind of like the original Ultimate Fighter season

(22:45):
was for really you know, there were some really talented
guys that they liked, and Wade Barrett was was a
top prospect obviously, and they felt good about him, although
I think he surprised even them with how how good
he's gotten quickly. But I don't think NXT is going
to be the route that Ricky Stibo Junior or or
another dB, another Hending Brother or either even necessarily Tyler
Black are going to take. If they're really high on somebody,

(23:06):
I think they might have them debut under more controlled
circumstances on RAW rather than putting them through a grinder
where they're kind of in a circus atmosphere. So NXT
is not going to be the only way WWE introduces
new talent. And by being bypassed, I think it's probably
a sign of confidence more than it's a sign that
they don't think they're ready or or you know, they
don't they don't think they're good enough. Pat would do

(23:28):
you ruth my analysis on that?

Speaker 2 (23:30):
Yeah, I mean, I agree these this is definitely a
show for the second tier guys. I think, you know,
from it's my understanding that they're going to do season
four of the n XP and the hope is that
by that time that ends, they'll be ready to tough Enough,
We'll be ready to go, and they'll just move the
international international audiences from the next season four right over.
It's tough Enough, so and I don't think I'm pretty

(23:53):
sure we're not going to see Richie Steamboat on Tough Enough.

Speaker 1 (23:56):
Yeah exactly. Yeah, tough Enough is not going to be
tough enough to even a layer lower. That's going to
be the people who aspire to get onto, you know,
into FCWS. So yeah, I mean yeah, Richie Steamboat is
not is going to be featured and debuted under a
circumstance that doesn't involve sharing the stage with completely unknown

(24:17):
guys running relay race. It's not even if there even
if there were to be a season five, I don't
think we would be seeing Richie Steamboat in that circumstance. Johnny,
any final words from you?

Speaker 7 (24:29):
Yeah, we were we talk We talked a couple of
weeks ago about, uh, be cool to make like a
like a moment of those the week, like a top
five between all three brands and on the website. Be
a cool idea to make all like I mean, between
all three branches make the top five moments of the week.

Speaker 9 (24:43):
Yeah, no weekly.

Speaker 1 (24:45):
Well, we did put out yesterday. I'm writing that down
on my notes. By the way, Johnny Drew, that's a
good reminder. I put out feeler and I talked about
this yesterday that we're accepting applications to be a volunteer
contributor to p W Torch. We do this every couple
of years at most. We've had over one hundred people
apply so far. So thanks to everybody, including those obviously

(25:05):
listening to us now for wanting to help out with
a site. I haven't had a chance to go through
most of the emails yet, but I mean, man, they
keep coming in, and that's actually a good idea to
maybe a sign with some to to some of the
people who want to help out with the site and
maybe come up with kind of a consensus top five
moments of the week type feature, because I don't think
that'd be a neat addition to the specialty section. And

(25:26):
then it's something we could also obviously talk about here
on the show and have it be a topic of discussion.
I'm kind of I'm not doing exactly that at wedecolor
dot com with my blog, but I'm kind of picking
out the performer of the show on WWE and kind
of you know, picking out certain elements of TV shows
and highlighting them, but kind of doing a top five
of the week. It would be kind of interesting, and

(25:47):
it would have to be somebody who watches all the
shows who would be able to contribute to to voting
on that or determining that list. Well, Johnny, thanks for
the call, appreciate it. We're going to keep rolling through
calls and in just a couple of minutes we'll also
have the mn MIDWEK event center, so stay tuned for that.
Let's now go to uh you know, you know what.

Speaker 2 (26:05):
Way we we We probably should talk about this. Uh
you know, I had this idea for this reality show
where the people who applies, where a bunch of people
compete to get a job at uh at itbetorch dot com.
Maybe they could do obstacle courses and uh yeah.

Speaker 1 (26:19):
I think I think if people want to send in uh,
you know, naked pictures, that that's how a lot of
reality shows work. I think I think, uh you know,
maybe or maybe wearing your favorite wrestler costume while standing
in front of p W Torch website on your computer screen,
you know, maybe where like dress up like your favorite
wrestler and and we can judge you on uh on

(26:39):
that or anything else that's completely irrelevant to whether you
would actually be good or not at what you do
writing for the Torch. You know, that's the thing that
I hate about NXT is it's so it, you know,
with the Diva is it just it totally looks like
it's it's a it's an audition for whether you can
post make it on Playboy and and and with NXD,

(26:59):
with the opp course, it's just it's it's humiliating. It
doesn't make wrestler. Bruce Mitchell wrote went on a good
rant about this and also wrote about it. Who's going
to take a WWE star seriously if they remember them
having to run some goofy optical course while announcers made
fun of them. I mean, I think there should be
a certain mystique when it comes to where certain wrestlers
come from, and if where they came from and your

(27:21):
first impression of them is being treated like a you know,
just like a joke on television. I just don't think
it works. But Pat, you of course would want to
have a reality show where we would test things that matter, Like,
I don't know what, what would your reality show consist of?
That that would help that would help us determine who
would best to add to the team.

Speaker 2 (27:42):
Well, let's see, okay, things that matter, Well, you know
you're the editor. I mean obviously the abilities are right
without being edited, that would would be right up on
the top of the left.

Speaker 4 (27:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (27:53):
The ability to check your own spelling and grammar and
all that, that would be Uh, that'd be pretty important.

Speaker 1 (27:59):
I don't ability. I don't know if meeting a deadline
or having a grammar correct to make your great reality.
But I think what you're saying it would be what
would be most applicable. So we're running into the problem
that reality shows have is how do you make it
exciting while also having it mean something. So go ahead
with more ideas, Pat, Let's see, I.

Speaker 2 (28:17):
Think you should have to uh, I think you should
have to co. I think you should have to do
an audio with Bruce Mitchell. I think that would be
a good test of of how skilled you are. That's
that's got to be up there. What's what's another good one?
Let's see. I think I think you have to I think, well,
you spun this on me, and that's that's okay. I

(28:37):
can handle it. I'm trying to think of other important topics.
The ability to contribute to conversations on the message board,
like the current one about whether Chris Jericho has a
good taste in music or not.

Speaker 1 (28:48):
That's important. That's in the v I P forum. We're
having a nice figures debate about about music and Bruce
Mitchell is leading the way.

Speaker 2 (28:56):
Well, yeah, that that happens around here a lot. I
think you should then be required to spend about then
spend about half do another audio about half an hour
with Sean Raddick and going over the latest indie DVD releases.

Speaker 1 (29:10):
Yes, and naked pictures, oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:14):
And uh and naked pictures and uh, if your naked
pictures are very good, send over naked pictures of better
looking people.

Speaker 1 (29:21):
I think that'll but you have to be you have
to either be holding our iPhone app in front of
you or stand in front of the computer screen with a
website so we know it's not just a random naked picture.
We will we will then run a poll on the
website and uh, and put up your pictures and people
can then vote for who the next contributor should be
based on that.

Speaker 2 (29:41):
Yeah, I think that. I think that's a great idea.

Speaker 6 (29:43):
And then the people in the chat room seem very
excited about that.

Speaker 1 (29:47):
All right, well, I actually I promise not to not
to publish your pictures.

Speaker 10 (29:51):
So I'm Chris Maitland and I'm justin McClellans.

Speaker 11 (29:58):
We wrestling Coast to Coast, where we scour the wrestling
scene to find the best wrestling from the smallest places.

Speaker 10 (30:04):
There are thousands of matches happening every week, so Wrestling
Coast to Coast is here to discover the men and
women who could be big time stars in a few years.

Speaker 11 (30:11):
There are plenty of podcasts de voters to w W
and AW, but what's happening in the armories and gymnasiums
local wrestling hotspots around the country.

Speaker 10 (30:19):
We can't wait to help you find the true hidden
gems of the wrestling world. Plus, you can hear Chris
complain about bad referees.

Speaker 11 (30:25):
And justin bemoaning dogpile fins.

Speaker 10 (30:27):
Don't forget my feudal search to see a blue thunderbomb
win a match.

Speaker 1 (30:31):
How can I like?

Speaker 11 (30:32):
The name says we cover the hottest independent promotions from
around the country, so such as Prestige Action, West Coast Pro, Revolver,
and Beyond Wrestling.

Speaker 10 (30:40):
Actually, Chris, I think we stick pretty much to wrestling.

Speaker 11 (30:43):
No, I mean Beyond Wrestling out of Worcester.

Speaker 10 (30:44):
Oh right.

Speaker 11 (30:45):
Our show's part of the PW Torch Daily Cast lineup
and typically drops on Thursdays. Search PW Torch in your
podcast app, as subscribed to the PW Torch Daily Cast,
or stream our shows directly from PW touch dot com.
Find full details on the PW Torschdalie Cast lineup at
PW torch Daily Cast dot com.

Speaker 1 (31:03):
M h M, all right, let's uh. Let's let's move
on to some more phone calls here and go to
uh area code one two three. I don't know where
one two three is. Please state your name and where
you're from as that's me, Yes international call. You sound

(31:26):
like you're from France, I.

Speaker 8 (31:29):
Said, Paul, calling from Glasgow, Scotland.

Speaker 1 (31:34):
That did that get under your skin? I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
I knew that would get to come.

Speaker 2 (31:38):
We're trying not to insult the callers.

Speaker 1 (31:41):
Well, well, that's when someone called from France. I said
nice things about a country like you're going to get.

Speaker 8 (31:45):
People saying that un naked cool exapts.

Speaker 1 (31:47):
Then give me your first name again, because I did.
I did talk right over because of the time difference,
We're going to all this people over. So I'm gonna
I am going to stop talking in a few seconds
and then let the caller talk. Speak your name and
give us your question. I now turn it over to

(32:08):
your color.

Speaker 8 (32:12):
Thanks very much, Wade. My name is Paul. I'm calling
from Glasgow and Scotland. I've got a few comments. First
of all, i'd like you in mentioned in the After
VI I P After Show yesterday that Michael Cole I'm
ergings as possibly the Vince McMahon Mark two just the way.
I think there's a lot of parallels between Michael Cole

(32:35):
and with this new Heal character and what Vince did
back in the Attitude era. Cole was really good. So
was really impressed with him. And actually I sent an
email yesterday to you, probably not read it yet with
all the submissions for the post of the Torch, but
it was along those lines. Secondly, in fact, can you

(32:57):
hear mail?

Speaker 1 (32:57):
Okay, yeah we can, yes.

Speaker 8 (33:03):
So I just felt I was going on and there
was no one there losson in the boxing world just
now with between many Paki and Floyd, maybe Virgunia. For
the last few months, it's been the most popular talked
about thing in the boxing world. Do you think it's
possibly do a similar angle and rest them for two
guys won't face each other, maybe for six months. Say

(33:25):
it was a joint sen and truffle h and I
was one wanted to have a match, but they wouldn't
face each other. Is there any money and doing something
like that? Do you think?

Speaker 1 (33:34):
Yeah? The boxing question. First, I think it drives It
drives conversation in boxing, but it also drives people nuts
in boxing. I think boxing fans when you get the
contract in passes or you know different different warring factions
and and technicalities, and I want this, I want it
to be in this city, or I want this perse,
I want this percentage of the fight. I think it
can lead a lot of frustration. I think in a way, yeah,

(33:56):
it creates contigisy in boxing and built anticipation, and I
think it can be used to build anticipation. But at
the same time, I also think it's aggravating. I mean,
I don't think anybody's gonna look to boxing and say
pro wrestling should emulate that a lot of things in boxing,
because I think boxing fans and I'm not a huge
close follower boxing, but I know that there's a lot
of frustration over a lot of good fights that don't

(34:17):
happen and that get delayed and there's not you know,
one title and an organized governing body and that type
of thing. That said, I think there's a way to
bring that type of thing into a pro wrestling angle
if it's tweaked for a pro wrestling show. The tough
part is how do you create a storyline reason why
two wrestlers won't face each other in a sport where
baby faces are constantly saying to heels, let's do it now,

(34:39):
let's do it tonight. It's one thing that a heel
run from a match, but it's another thing to have
two people in a situation where they both seem to
be leary of fighting each other. Pat, can you think
of a way where that might work.

Speaker 2 (34:53):
An actual boxing matter with boxing style build ups?

Speaker 1 (34:56):
Well, boxing style build up, I don't think he means
boxing match at all.

Speaker 6 (35:00):
Well, but that's the.

Speaker 2 (35:01):
Problem, because you know, the number of boxing is is
not that hot. These days. I mean, I mean, I
suppose you you could do it. You could set up
you could set up where the guys don't meet and
they don't touch, and they have the two other the
two fighters, you know, scoring wins over a variety of
other people, set up the match. Yeah, I think that's

(35:21):
I think that's Uh, those elements are are very possible.
And if you've seen HBO doing their doing their their
pre fight videos that they used to build up their
big boxing matches, you know, some something a little more
like that, Uh, that could work.

Speaker 1 (35:36):
Yes, And PHAs did you hear what Paul said about
Michael Cole at the beginning of his question, something about.

Speaker 2 (35:41):
Whether Michael Cole should be the next vinciic Man Heel
Tech character.

Speaker 1 (35:44):
And that that's a possibility.

Speaker 2 (35:46):
It's really it's really too soon to tell, but they could.
They could give it a shot and see how well
it resonates. I mean, part of the thing about vincick
Man's Heel character is vincick Man actually owns the company
and everybody knows it.

Speaker 1 (35:58):
Yeah. I actually wrote about that in in this week's
Prosting Torture newsletter, which I will be putting online after
this show was over. My cover story editorial was about
how to use Michael Cole and the parallels and the
differences between him being an announcer for many, many years
kind of just a straight you know, calling it straight
down the line, kind of pro babyface, not a real

(36:19):
character behind him announcer, which is kind of what Vincac
Mann was for a long time, and then breaking out
and all of a sudden having this personality nobody knew
we had. And there are parallels there between McMahon and Cole,
And I think part of the reason it's so entertaining
seeing Cole do what he does is if you've watched
for using for ten years, you didn't know Michael Cole
had it in him. But I think it takes ten
years of doing what Michael Cole has done for it

(36:42):
it to mean something.

Speaker 11 (36:43):
Now.

Speaker 1 (36:44):
Vincient Mann is Vincent Mann, and no one's going to
compare to him because he was around longer and is
a different type of personality and a larger than life
personality more so than Coal. But Cole has been fantastic.
I mean, let's not understate how good Michael Cole has
been on the microphone as a heel and getting better,
and I just think it would. It's getting to the

(37:06):
point where it would be a real waste of his
talent to have him go back to being an announcer.
I think w I mean, I mean Michael Cole solid
as an announcer. He's the best ww WE has probably
in most ways when he's just doing what he did
before he before Daniel Brannan n XD came around. But
I'm willing to give that up in order for Cole
to become, you know, a hybrid between the mister McMahon

(37:28):
character and just a good heel manager type who's agitating,
who fans pay money to see get beat up. And
so yeah, I think it makes sense to try to
figure out a way whatever their plans were for Cole,
I don't think they plan for him to be this good,
and I think they need to tweak whatever they're doing
to get him into a position. I don't want it
to be a heel GM because I think that's that's

(37:48):
that was fine for the year two thousand through twenty ten.
Let's move on. Let's let's dedicate ourselves coming up with
something new that doesn't feel like a rehash of what
Eric Bischoff did. And you know, Vince McMann was the
only one who really did that well. But yeah, I'm
all for Michael Cole being a strong, heal character. Paul,
I'm gonna throw throw to you for some final comments.

Speaker 8 (38:10):
Yeah, thanks Sam actually saying any email with all allow
of those same sentiments as you mentioned, gets curtain the
new news later. And I'd just like to say, anyone
listening is not a VIP member, I really recommend given
a try. And also with the live cast up and
listening from the from the start last year and you
thank you guys did a fantastic job. And I'm jump

(38:33):
fifty five and the chat with most nights and then yep,
like I say, of it, commend the VIP nbleship to
anyone that's not got it. Thanks very much, chills.

Speaker 1 (38:42):
Great here from you, Paul. Thanks thanks for the endorsement
of the Torch VIP site. I guess with that unsolicited endorsement,
I ought to give a plug for the Torch PW
p W Torch v IP website. The place to go
to get information on signing up for what Paul just
recommended is PW Torch dot slash go VIP. That's PW

(39:02):
torch dot com slash go VIP it is. With the
VP membership you get access to our VIP forum, or
you can interact with the Torch staff, including Pat McNeil
and Chruce Mitchell and everybody, and we talk about wrestling,
but we also are currently in the midst of the
debate about who the greatest rock bands were of all time,
and whether Simon and Simon was a decent TV show,
a lot of other stuff. It's a fun community and

(39:23):
we hope that if you become a VIP member you'll
take part in the discussions over there about wrestling and
other subjects. Also, as I mentioned, the PW Torch newsletter
for this week will be posted online in just a
matter of minutes after the show ends. I'm just wrapping
up getting the PDF edition all done. Includes a lot
of exclusive content that we do not have on the website.
Also the VIP blog area where I post my daily

(39:45):
blogs and flashbacks and interact with readers VAT members who
want to have an ongoing conversation about topics in the
blog area, plus other VAT members post their blogs. VIP
members tend to be, I feel face saying some of
the most well informed wrestling fans out there, and their
blogs are definitely worth reading, and you know, one of
the major reasons people subscribe to the audio and as

(40:07):
James Colbill talked about on Monday, one of the more
fun times we have and the most listened to audio
shows are the post pay per view roundtables. After every
pay per view it's usually Pat Bruce and me discussing
the pay per view for about an hour and that's
I think, well, I know, one of the most popular
features on the website. Plus you get access to hundreds
and hundred and hundreds and hundreds of back issues of

(40:27):
the Progressing Torch newsletter going back to the late eighties.
We just put up new back issues today because it is,
as it always is, back issue Wednesday. We just put
up a twenty years ago back issue and a couple
back issues from two thousand and five, and so lots
of good stuff. Kevin ash Torch talk, some amazing comments
from Sean Waltman regarding Eddie Garrow's death and what he

(40:48):
thinks wwe should do, some really good columns and a
lot of insider news that's just kind of touching the
surface on what you get with a VIP membership. So
I encourage you. I'll check that out. If you enjoy
what we do here at the show, I do think
you with yourself to at least give it a one
month try and see if all the all the VIP
content is worth I think a pretty good price that
we charge. I think you get good bang for your

(41:09):
buck for what we charge. So PW torch dot com
slash go vip. There's my long plug.

Speaker 6 (41:14):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (41:14):
Pat. We don't have anybody on hold right now, so
if you want to get through on the phone banks,
now is the time to call. The number is six
four six seven to one nine eight two eight. Also
want to enourage people to send us questions by email.
We don't get to them very often because we normally
have packphone lines. But if you are not listening to
the show live and you want to contribute a question
or a topic for us to discuss, or if you

(41:35):
are listening to us live but you just don't don't
or can't call us on the phone, the email address
is PW torch Live cast at gmail dot com. That's
PW Torchlivecast at gmail dot com. Pat. While we wait
for other people to get on hold or send us
an email, let's go to the Wednesday McNeil Event Center

(41:55):
if you missed it earlier, just a reminder, we're running
our second VIP sale of the year. We don't do
the often. Take advantage of it now. It is a
limited time offer. Take nine dollars off a VIP subscription
a one month, three month, or one year sub It
brings the one month sub down to just three dollars
in ninety nine cents. The coupon code is n O
V twenty twenty five as in November n o V
twenty twenty five, and that takes nine dollars off. When

(42:18):
you check out on our sign up form pw Torch
dot com slash Go v IP gives you full details
on membership benefits and links to our sign up form.

Speaker 2 (42:29):
All right, good evening, everybody. Hello, let's you and missus
America and all these ships and see here is your
Events Center update for this weekend. Of course, don't forget
that you can catch ww NXC the start of season
four WWE dot Com tomorrow. It's I'm Gonna do my Tony.
I'm gonna do my Tony timble for this It's WW

(42:51):
super Stars on WG and America. Featured matches include Eve
Torres taking out Alisha Fox and yes, wait, I know
you've been waiting for Baretta Versus Hawkins three. That's right,
the third match on Superstars between Trent Burretta and Kurt Hawkins.
And hopefully this will be as iconic as series as

(43:11):
the Orlando Jordan Versus Chris Canyon series on Velocity several
years ago. TNA Impact on Spike TV is tomorrow night.
On that show, you will see Doug Williams Douglas Williams
defend his newly won TNA Television title against Abyss and yes,
a cage match on Spike TV, Mickey James takes on

(43:32):
Tara inside a steel cage. Of course. The Ring of
Honor is doing its television tapings this week in Louisville, Kentucky,
and tomorrow night they'll be doing their first of two
television tapings, headlined by Christoph Daniels taking on Chris Hero
and ROH World Champion Roderick Strong in a non title
match against Cold Canada. Then on Friday night, it will

(43:55):
be part two of the ROH television tapings in Louisville
as Shelton Judgeman and Charlie Hass get onto Ring Hondo
Television and take on the All Night Express. Plus Eddie
Edwards defends the Ring of Hondo Television Championship against Christopher Daniels.
WW Snackdown is on Sci Fi this Friday night. Big
matches include Dolt Zigler the Intercontinental Champion, taking on Kochie Kingston.

(44:20):
That sounds familiar for some reason, can't put my finger
on it, and of course be made event. It will
be tag team action as former SmackDown Tag Team champions
Dramasterio and Edge reunite to take on the dynamic duo
of Cain and Alberto Del Rio on the Indy front.
This Saturday, Jersey All Pro Wrestling because it's the Super

(44:40):
Saturday at the ECW Asylum Marina Whatever in South Philadelphia.
You're featured ballast All or Jay Legal versus Kenny Omega.
Brodie Lee defends the JAPW title against Rhino, and for
the first time ever, it will be Jusian Lager taking
on Bruce Mitchell's favorite wrestler, Smug Mike Quackenbush. WW House

(45:00):
shows are taking place This Sunday. SmackDown will be in Monroe, Louisiana,
with a nowhere on the matches but a Star started
cast including previous Sterio Jackslagger Edge and Kane. No word
as to where the kidnapped Paul BarreR will be stashed.
Ww RAW I will have a house show this Sunday

(45:21):
in BLOCKXY, Mississippi, headlined by a triple threat match for
the WV title that from his takes on both Way
Barrett and John Cena's Mexican cousin Juan Cina. Also, Daniel
Bien will be defending the US title against Ted DiBiase Jr.
Ring of Honor will be on HD net this Monday
night as they get set for final battle. It will
be a Ring of Honor champion Roderick Strong taking on

(45:43):
the former champion Austin area Is in a match that
was well obviously eight months ago. Ww raw this Monday
night on the UFA Network, a special three hour episode
from New Orleans as we get the twenty ten Flammy Awards.
No words to be who will be hosting the twenty
ten s flamil Wards, but I'm guessing Dennis Miller didn't
make the cut. Also, Nexus has given Wade Barrett an ultimatum,

(46:06):
so the question is will wait there rehire John Cena
or will Wade Barrett be pushed out of Nexus. We'll
find out on Monday, and of course it's coming Tuesday
w W NXT on WW dot com. I believe that
they'll we'll finally get to see Brotus Clay and Byron
Fact and wrestle and that should be good enough for
all of you. And that's your live events center follow

(46:28):
this Wednesday.

Speaker 1 (46:29):
Wait, did I miss you mentioning the Troops taping Tribute
to the Troops taping on Saturday?

Speaker 3 (46:37):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (46:37):
I thought that, Oh, are they taping it this Saturday.

Speaker 1 (46:40):
I think they're taping it to Saturday, in fact at
Fort Hood, Texas.

Speaker 2 (46:44):
Yeah, I don't know. I thought that we're gonna tape
that last week.

Speaker 1 (46:48):
No, we have a Torch representative going to the show too,
so that will be that'll be interesting. So hopefully for
his sake, it hasn't already taken place. I'm true. All right, Well,
we've got a lot of people on hold right now,
so let's jump back to the full nine for the
final fifteen minutes of the show. If you're just joining us,
I'm Wade Keller, host of the PW Torch Live Cast,
joined today by Pat McNeil, columnist for progressing Torch newsletter

(47:12):
and pw torch dot com area code eight six by
thanks for colling. Please stay your name and where you're from.

Speaker 5 (47:20):
Hey, it's going on, Yeah, Stephen Tennessee.

Speaker 1 (47:22):
Hey Stephen, go to your fremale. What's on your mind today?

Speaker 6 (47:28):
Oh?

Speaker 5 (47:28):
Nothing much, But I got a quick question. I was
watching the twenty four sevens had then not Raw and uh.

Speaker 6 (47:36):
On that episode of.

Speaker 5 (47:37):
Raw particular, they were they were advertising the USC buy
that was going on. I guess that weekend as a
RAW and uh, And I'm just kind of curious. I
guess I guess my series of About for Nations a
while they would do that. And it's you know, because
the US SEE was in much of a threat the
time period or is it because or is it endo
or because of the fact that Kate Shrimmick in ninety

(47:58):
seven at the time ninety eight or wrestling for him?

Speaker 1 (48:03):
And tell me the context of the advertisement against Stephen.

Speaker 6 (48:10):
It was ken, how do you do now?

Speaker 5 (48:12):
They're advertising ticket by tickets for these show curning shows.
They just had the USC logo at the time period.
I guess it was still going by super Fight there
was from Super Fight cards and all that and they're advertising.
I think it was ten at this point, but it
was like USC ten and they're just talking about uh
some of I guess it was similar that Ken Shermlock

(48:32):
had trained or something.

Speaker 2 (48:34):
Or now they were associated with the fighting in that card.

Speaker 1 (48:37):
But where, what where? Where did you see the ad?
That's what I missed at the beginning of your call.

Speaker 2 (48:41):
Where he saw it was fifteen years ago.

Speaker 1 (48:43):
No, No, I know on television on on Idaho show.
I'm completely lost. Help me here.

Speaker 5 (48:49):
It was on it was only a money not raw.

Speaker 1 (48:51):
Like like you were at a raw. Or it was
on television and the announcers for ww re plunted. Or
it was an advertisement it was I'm sorry it was advertised,
but it was during a commercial break or buy the
hang on Steven, let me ask this question because I
want to the dtill time delays kind of screwing me
up here. It was it was the voice of Jim

(49:12):
Ross and the announcers, or it was during a commercial
break like a local ad.

Speaker 6 (49:15):
Buy No, it was the.

Speaker 5 (49:18):
Voice of Jim Ross and he was talking about buying that.

Speaker 1 (49:20):
Fear of you.

Speaker 5 (49:20):
Is Jim Ross doing you knowing money that role here
in a by doing that gotcha.

Speaker 1 (49:25):
Okay, thanks thanks for plarifying that, because that changed a
lot because I was thinking, well, if it was just
an add on USA, that didn't really that could have
just been a local buy. I'm trying to remember now
because obvious I'd asked that many questions because I didn't
remember Ross doing that. Pat, do you remember the context
of why w W would have plugged UFC unless it
was I don't even remember UFC buying a buying a
sponsorship or anything like that either.

Speaker 2 (49:47):
No, but I I mean I think that was Ken
Shermark still signed the UFC when he signed with w W.

Speaker 1 (49:54):
A, I don't think so. I think they were independent
of each other. Man. I wish I had a better answer.
I don't think Pat or I are coming up with
it because I mean it. I'm I'm I'm sure you're
remembering right, and and I'm I don't know that WWE
would have had any reason on their own to do
that without getting paid a lot of money and feeling

(50:15):
that USC wasn't a threat. So man, Yeah, if somebody
listening to this remembers better than Pat and I are
right now, because we're a little stumped, definitely drop us
an email or or mentioned in the chat room right
now or give us a call, because yeah, that's that's
a good stump for stuvement. I don't I don't know
if you had the exact date of the show and
can email that to me, I could try to look

(50:36):
it up in the torch to that cool anything else
course today.

Speaker 2 (50:46):
Now I think I did.

Speaker 5 (50:47):
That's something I I just remembered and assault and I
was just kind of serious about that.

Speaker 1 (50:50):
Yeah, that's all I have not many.

Speaker 6 (50:53):
I appreciate it that take care.

Speaker 1 (50:54):
Appreciate the call, Stephen. I think you know, when we
look back at at one of the most pivotal decisions
in man made, when you look at the success of
UFC he had he put up a fuss about the
Ultimate Fighter being on after Raw on Spike TV and said, no,
you know, we don't want their competition shows. We don't
want us right after. That could have made a big
difference because it was the Ultimate Fighters show that really

(51:17):
was one of the launching points to take MMA UFC's brand.
But really MMA is a sport to the next level.
And then wwe left Spike shortly thereafter, and and and
UFC became until T and a cam around, you know,
the kind of replacement in a way, and then they
did that head to head show with I think it
was Tito and Shamrock that did some real competitive ratings
and really big peak ratings up against Ross. So that

(51:41):
was one of the big things. I think. I think
there's a if Vince McMahon knew the success that USC
would have and the potential it's unprovable, but certainly there's
a strong correlation that would make you think it's tied
together USC's Y rates going up and WWE's viyrates going down.
I think he'd I think he would have played a
little more aggressively against them from the beginning.

Speaker 2 (52:01):
All right, Look, okay, I was on this. I went
on this thing called the Internet Wade, Yeah, and I
looked up the I looked up the question and apparently
in nineteen ninety seven on Monday Night Raw, they were
plugging UFC fifteen, which was on tail Television, which had
which were going to be on pay per view, which
had Ken SHAMROCK's brother Frank Shamrock, and apparently Jim Ross

(52:26):
mentioned that on the air.

Speaker 1 (52:27):
Oh okay, and so Ken was working for WWE, And
basically it's just kind of a shout out, Hey, his
brother Frank's going to be on USC.

Speaker 5 (52:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:35):
Yeah, Well I bet they take that. You're not going
to see that today, No, you're not. Yeah. But I
don't know if that was during the dark the dark
years of pay per view where UFC was only on
DirecTV or not. But I know during much of the
Monday Night War Monday Night War period, it was a
it was a rough time for USC because they were banned,
their pay per views were banned on regular table. What
a different time that was. Wow, give yourself a reason

(52:59):
to look forward to going to the mailbox each week
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(53:20):
Rich Fan, Sean Radikin, Alan Coonahan and Zach Haydorn, Torch
Talk transcripts, the latest news, and more. PW torch dot
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edition in the year twenty twenty two. You can get

(53:42):
a full year of home delivery for just ninety nine dollars,
or try us for an eight week trial subscription pw
torch dot com slash paper copy. All right, well, let's
go back to the phone line. We've got a few
people on hold. If you want to get on hold,
we should probably will have time to get to you
if you call right now the number six four six
seven nine A two weight. That's six four six seven

(54:05):
nine A two. Waight, let's go to Eric three six zero.
Please stay your name and where you're from.

Speaker 9 (54:10):
Hi. This Michael from Washington.

Speaker 1 (54:12):
Hey Michael, thanks for calling. What's on your mind today?

Speaker 9 (54:16):
I was wondering what your thoughts on recent comments from
Shane Helms one Mike, and because they're kind of derogatory.

Speaker 1 (54:28):
Yeah, well they're very derogatory. I don't quite get to me, Pat,
I'm gonna put you on hold, uh Color, because the
feedback was kind of bad there. What Shane helps is
doing is to me just kind of comes across as
trying to get attention. It's working to a certain extent,

(54:48):
we're talking about him. I think Sean Michaels had the
right response, which is, I don't want to go back
to high school. You know, it doesn't bother him that much.
He got enough emails about it that he decided to
address it on Twitter with one or two two posts,
but nothing more. I think Michael's is handling it the
right way. Whether or not Shane helms is is speaking
the truth or not, it just seems like I don't
know a pat Are you familiar with the context that

(55:10):
would give Shane Helms that would make you understand why
Shane is is uh going to the trouble to do this?

Speaker 5 (55:17):
No?

Speaker 2 (55:17):
And you know, I think I think Michaels is doing
the wrong thing by taking you who cares attitude towards us,
And I'm really yeah, I mean the answer, it's somebody's
it's somebody's religion, and unless they're making a really big
deal out of it themselves, you know, it falls under
the category of who cares. I mean, yeah, well, I mean, oh, okay,

(55:38):
Shawn Michaels. Shawn Michael's at one point in his life,
he was you know, he was every bit as much
of a bad person, as everybody said about him, and
it looks as though he managed to turn around his life,
managed to get off the pain pill addiction, you know,
stay away from illegal drugs. And you know, I don't
see uh. I mean, I don't see where. I don't

(55:59):
see where benefits. Shaane helms at all to be talking
like shot about Sean Michael's like this, and.

Speaker 1 (56:04):
He took a dig at Michael hunting, saying that he's
flattering into an animals, and I don't know, maybe Michael
slaughters into an animals when he hunts. I don't know
details about Michael hunting. I haven't paid close attention. I
hope if he shoots an animal that he's mad enough
to honor that animal's life and actually use the meat
for his food. I can respect that, you know, frankly,

(56:27):
I respect it more than people who don't want to
process their own meat and still eat meat and lead
the dirty work to somebody else. So I don't have
a problem with that at all. There's animal cruelty going
on in factory farms. It's much worse than what animals
feel when they get hunted in the wild. And I
don't really know what that has to do with his
religion or anything. I mean, a lot of people hunt,
so I thought that was kind of a weird dig
to take. And then saying that it's you know, making
the comment about steroids. I mean, I think Michaels took

(56:49):
steroids in his day. I think he took steroids at
times when a lot of people were doing in speroids.
And then stereotesting came around and Michael's lost muscle mass
and had some of the best year of years of
his career here. I don't think people watched on Michaels
because he looked big. In fact, Michaels was one of
those special talents who never I don't think ever needed
to take steroids in order to be over. I think

(57:10):
he was in a big man's business, and he was,
in a way a pioneer who took who rose up
through the card in a company that normally would not
have pushed somebody of his size to main events. And
maybe his muscle mass helped him, you know, maybe it
helped him catch frimsick Man's eye at a time when
that was a prerequisite to get to the place on
the card that Michael's was at. But I think Michael's

(57:31):
probably would have done okay with or without it, And
I'm not even sure. I just don't get Yeah, I
didn't follow it enough to know every detail of what
instigated this conversation, but I think Michael is taking the
high road here and ignoring it, and really Gregory Helms,
Shane Helms, is not I just don't know that with
the friends he's hanging around with and how they are
acting in public, and you know, I mean, he's not

(57:53):
responsible for his friends all of his friend's conduct, but
it does seem a little weird that I think there's
some other targets his friend who he could probably been
making fun of that with a little more with arguments
that are a little more contemporary than the ones that
he's making. So maybe there's something I don't know about
the context of why he's doing this. But I just
don't think Shane Helm's in the group that he runs
what should be throwing stones right now.

Speaker 2 (58:13):
Yeah, I mean, I don't know if Sean Michael said
anything about what happened with Jeff Hardy. I would have
been surprised if he had, but I don't. Yeah, it
doesn't make any sense.

Speaker 1 (58:23):
Color I didn't write your name down and I forgot
to apologize. Take your name again, and then if you
have any follow up, let me know that.

Speaker 9 (58:29):
Michael.

Speaker 1 (58:29):
Okay, thanks Michael, Yeah, go ahead. Do you have any
follow up on that?

Speaker 9 (58:36):
You probably agree with me in thinking that that he's delusional.
But I'm reading about how Vincent Man's stillner impression he
can sign Brock Lesner for Wrestling twenty seven.

Speaker 1 (58:47):
You're changing subjects or that you're changing something. So that's
something Shane Helm said. I'm a little confused. Yeah, he's changing,
just changing. Oh okay, fair enough, yep. Well, you know,
I don't know that that's not true, you know. I
I the situation with Brock. I think his is still
somewhat fluid. I don't think we know what his next

(59:07):
UFC fight is. He's not training for something. I haven't
heard the latest on whether he's even talked to Dana
White since his loss. I think Vince would love to
get Brock less on that card, and for the right
amount of money, you know, given what Brock has gone
through to earn his paychecks recently. If the paycheck's big enough,
if he offers three million dollars to Brock to come
in and work a match. I mean, I could see

(59:28):
Brock doing it. I don't think it would greatly affect
Brock's UFC career. I think in a way, to be
Brock telling all the MMA fans who have held it
against him that he wrestled threw you, I'll go back
and wrestle for three million dollars for one night, and
then I'll come back and tick some masks again in MMA.
I think he's a type of matenance.

Speaker 9 (59:43):
It makes him the great the heel pretty much that
he was around UFC one hundred.

Speaker 1 (59:48):
Yes, yeah, I think it would again. And you know Paul,
Remember Paul Hayman's advising Brock, and Paul obviously got pro
wrestling ties. He knows how the business works. And I think,
you know, Paul is compuilding with Brock, and you know,
anything that comes out about Brock might be coming out,
might be coming out through Paul Hayman, and Paul Hayman
doesn't isn't connected with the truth as much as he's

(01:00:10):
connected with his self interest and what will stir controversy
and stir conversation and maybe get somebody he cares about
a little bit, a little bit of an edge in
the public relations game and fair enough as long as
you know that's what he does. Fair enough. And so
any news that comes out about Brock in any format,
you know, you kind of have to filter it through
the possibility that it's a game being played, a leverage

(01:00:30):
negotiating game too, that's being played.

Speaker 6 (01:00:34):
Well.

Speaker 1 (01:00:34):
Fair enough, Michael, thanks for call. We got a couple
of people on hold, and we're down in the last
couple of minutes here, so let's go ahead and jump
to air code one one one, probably Skyper International. Please
state your name and where you're from. Hello, Hello, I
hear you typing. You're on the air. Please state your
name and where you're from or not? All right, all right,

(01:00:59):
we just want somebody else on hold. If you want
to call right now, we've got a couple of minutes
left on the show, we'll take your call. Six four six.

Speaker 2 (01:01:04):
That's those Luckie Lakes people way, they're they're attacking the entire.

Speaker 1 (01:01:07):
Internet six four six seven nine eight two eight sin.
Since we announced that, since I talked about having one
hundred applications or more, where we're over one hundred now
for PW Torch. We've had four more people apply just
in the last few minutes. Too, so we probably will
have to cut off applications soon, but if you are

(01:01:29):
interested in joining the Torch team, we've got a lot
of different ideas for some new features we want to run.
We're going to probably in twenty eleven to do a
little bit of a layout change in terms of how
we present some of the new features and writers that
we have that we're still currently brainstorming. But uh if
and we've had people send some pretty impressive resumes and
nine pretty goods, so it's just great. We're looking forward
to a fun twenty eleven with some new voices at

(01:01:51):
the Torch.

Speaker 6 (01:01:53):
Way.

Speaker 2 (01:01:54):
Can any of those can any of those people turn
heads and airports like I can?

Speaker 1 (01:01:59):
That is at this point the preer equisite. I don't know.
We actually, uh, we're down a minute, but we're gonna
take a quick question here. If we don't tackle it
on the live show, we'll do it in the after show.
Ericode five h nine, thanks for calling. Please quickly state
your name, where you're from, and a commoner question.

Speaker 8 (01:02:14):
It's jars and Kenell Washington.

Speaker 4 (01:02:15):
My question is.

Speaker 7 (01:02:16):
Where Williams and whys and he wrestling for either TEENA
or WV right now?

Speaker 1 (01:02:20):
Uh, Pete Williams P D Williams. I think you said
Steve Williams. Okay, yeah cool. Are you a V Are
you a VP member, Jared?

Speaker 6 (01:02:32):
You know what?

Speaker 1 (01:02:32):
Cool? Then we're gonna answer it in the VP after
show for you. Let's take one more quick question from
Eric code seven to seven three. State your name and
where you're from. We'll tackle it now we're in the
after show.

Speaker 2 (01:02:43):
Yeah, this is a Xavier from Chicago.

Speaker 4 (01:02:45):
I wanted to know what's the status of the moan
Zil contract.

Speaker 1 (01:02:49):
H Zavier. We covered that earlier in the show. You
probably joined us in progress if you want to go
back and listen, we covered it pretty in depth earlier
in the show. Eric code not one, Eric code seven
seven zero quick question or comment as we wrap.

Speaker 5 (01:03:01):
Up here chat from Atlanta.

Speaker 6 (01:03:07):
This season, Say the name again?

Speaker 1 (01:03:10):
Member, Say the name again? No, no, the name of
the wrestler. Shoot, we're out of time. Thanks everybody for
joining us until next time, be happy members, hold on
and join us tomorrow. Blah blah blah. The show started
with a bang and it ended with a bang. We
will now uh yeah, well, I'll sign off officially, thank

(01:03:32):
and I'll bet.

Speaker 2 (01:03:39):
Thank you for using blog talk radio goodbye.

Speaker 1 (01:03:44):
We are running our second vi i P sale of
the year. You want to take advantage of this. If
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VIP tells you about VIP membership. There is a link
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(01:04:05):
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That is a full VIP membership. That means you unlock
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out pw torch dot com, slash go v IP coupon
code NLV to take nine dollars off a one month,
three month, or one year sub Tyler Black okay chat

(01:05:12):
room filed us In there we had the voice, the
voice in our head, Pat the voice in our head
talked over him saying saying, Tyler Black, our countdown clock
that we hear when we're live.

Speaker 4 (01:05:23):
Cool.

Speaker 1 (01:05:23):
Well, we got some questions to take us into the
after show here. Let's uh, let's begin and work our
way backwards, Tyler Black. I think we kind of covered
that earlier in the show. We had some people join
us obviously during as the show was in progress. Tyler.
You know, Tyler Black would have been a good candidate
to be on NXT in the sense that he doesn't
have like the the second generation name and that type

(01:05:43):
of thing. But I think they were just getting figuring
out who he was. I don't know that they were
quite ready to throw him into the shark pit of
NXT when even though you know, people who know his
work in the indie scene know who he is. I
think WWU is still trying to figure out do we
want to feature him, how do we want to push him,
how would we portray him? And I think they just
wanted to get more familiar with them before putting him
on television.

Speaker 2 (01:06:02):
Yeah. I know that. I know that he did a
dark match last night that the Snackdown tapings, So I
mean they obviously they obviously have some plans for my
I think he's one of those guys who if you
think he's going to be special, and I think indeed
he's going to be special, then you'd want to give
him a debut, maybe not on NX team, maybe doing

(01:06:22):
something more important and way deal. It's not exactly on subject,
but have you have you noticed that there's no Internet
Darlings on season four?

Speaker 1 (01:06:33):
Yes? I have, which coincides with Michael Cole not being
on the announced team at least for now, so he
doesn't get to rip on anybody. For that reason, I
was just glad we didn't hear about Internet. We didn't
hear about Internet fans or anything. Last night. It was
just about about you know, candidates for WWE contract and
the winner gets the title shot and that type of thing.
I mean, it was it was refreshing. We still got

(01:06:54):
a little bit of in house stylebook references. I think Colin,
I mean, Matthews and Grisham made some comments in regard
to what they're allowed to say or how they say
it or something. But other than that, I thought they
just got back to business and called called the show,
which I think is you know, that's what I want
to see when I tuned into wrestling. I don't need
a bunch of in jokes being you know taking place.

Speaker 2 (01:07:16):
Now. If you want the end jokes, you can come here.

Speaker 1 (01:07:20):
The simojo question that David asked, we had already covered, Yes,
thank you, Pet, We already covered that. Where is P. D.
Williams And why is any working for anybody? Pat?

Speaker 2 (01:07:30):
The last I saw of him was, Uh. He was
in Ring of Honor earlier this year and then for
whatever reason, I don't think that he's uh that he
stayed with them. You know, I'll try to I'll while
we while we talk, I'll try to look up what
he's been doing lately. But I have not heard of him,
you know, I haven't heard the TNA is interested in him,
or WW or pretty much anybody.

Speaker 1 (01:07:52):
Well, and he's not. He's not a classic w W
style wrestler is gonna get a push. I don't think
he has good enough look to to to over overcome
the size barrier that you know that WWE has. Evan Bourne,
you know, is kind of the the token exception right now,
well not the exception. He's a He's a good looking guy.
He's got kind of the ray mysterial it's factor charisma

(01:08:15):
that I think that I think physical man likes uh.
He fights in a real underdog spirited style and is
a great athlete. I think he fits it fits a
certain mold that that there is a spot for in WWE.
P D. Williams was kind of a miniature bodybuilder type
and I just don't know that, you know, Vincent man
needs that and he was he was a talented worker.
I liked his work and he had you know, good

(01:08:36):
good athleticism and stuff. But again, I don't know that
he has that. It's factor, and I don't know that
there's a lot of spots open in WWE for his
his type as far as Tena goes. I mean it,
it's just it was a matter of cutting back. They
didn't they weren't pushing the exhibsion. They didn't see pd
as kind of having money charisma, and he just ended
up kind of on the outs on. You know, they

(01:08:57):
when they bring new people in. For every Deathmond Wolf
who comes in, they gotta they got to send somebody
else packing. You know, anytime you if you bring in
generation me, then that means to other guys that are going
to be out too. Roughly speaking, you know, the roster
is not exactly X number of people like an NBA
team or NHL team, But for the most part, some
people have to go. And p D had been around
for a while and they felt they they had more
upside with other guys, and so he made the cut.

(01:09:20):
It's tough, you know, there was there was a time
where Pete would have been able to get a good
full time work when there were a lot of territories.
He's talented enough where there were more jobs he'd have one.
It's just there's a limited number of jobs, and you
know the promoters know that they use that as pretty
good leverage.

Speaker 2 (01:09:35):
Oh yeah, let me let me see here. Oh yeah.
Pete Williams last surface uh a few months ago at
a taping for Lucha Libre USA Masked Warriors.

Speaker 1 (01:09:45):
So very good. All right, why don't we, Pat, Do
we have any uh, you know, mail bank questions for
us today?

Speaker 2 (01:09:53):
We do have one. Let's go to it. It comes
from Brian Alston from Phoenix, Arizona, who's a Torch subscriber
since nineteen ninety one. So maybe you know what mudge Ah, yes, hi, Pat,
Mister Anderson stuffered a real injury and TNA had to
do an emergency switch, turning Matt Morgan face and having
him fight Jeff Hardy at turning point? Can you think

(01:10:14):
of any main event card changes that promoters had to
make to real life situations? And he says, I always
think about Sting getting hurt in WCW turning Luger so
you could face Rick Flair at Wressell Ward in February
nineteen ninety. I love that. That's a good example right there.
I think, let me see another one that comes to mind,
and I know you, I know you think back on

(01:10:36):
this one all the time. Two thousand and the WCW
Slash nWo sold out two thousand show they were going
to do. Let me see if I can remember this correctly.
I forget which two wrestlers were were hurt, but they
had they had to completely change their main event because
I think Jeff Jarrett was unable to go. And trying

(01:10:56):
to remember who the other one was, I want to say,
I want to say Kevin Nash or something like that. Now,
well crap, I don't remember. But anyway, they changed around
the car and at one point they were talking about
having all the winners participate in a Battle Royal for
the vacant title. Oh yeah, Brett Hart was hurt and
Jeff Eurett was hurt.

Speaker 1 (01:11:15):
That's right, Okay, Oh wow, yep, man, that was the
time when WW It's so they had so many injuries
and disruptions and contract disputes. It was just a mess.
I'man trying to think, as you've been talking a bad
about another circumstance where there was a major last second change.
And I know there's been some. You're if they were

(01:11:36):
real prominent, I think you'd remember before I would just
based on how how much better your memory is in
mind for that kind of thing.

Speaker 2 (01:11:42):
Yeah, I'm trying to think about, you know, Maine event level, right,
which had to be changed.

Speaker 1 (01:11:48):
Yeah, I mean I'm trying to think of, you know,
that moment of disappointment where they're like, well, you know,
because no shows used to be a bigger problem in
the territory days. You know, sometimes there was blank false advertising,
and the times it was travel issues or oh yeah,
I don't.

Speaker 2 (01:12:04):
Know which time was Scott Hall a couple of years
ago in TNA. Oh yeah, the uh yeah, but he
was supposed to be a six man tag main event,
and I believe they busted out Eric Young is the replacement?

Speaker 1 (01:12:16):
Oh man, yep, that's right.

Speaker 2 (01:12:17):
And then and then the next time they did it,
I want to I'm trying to remember who it was.
The next time they did somebody in the main event
mafia couldn't make it, and they uh and they replaced
him with Kip James. So yeah, a lot of these
TNA ones sort of run together the yeah, but yeah,

(01:12:37):
let's see him keep that. Yeah, I mean there's uh yeah,
there are plenty of examples. They happen, unfortunately, and uh,
you know, I mean, you can just deal with them
the best.

Speaker 1 (01:12:46):
You can, and of course people have to accept that
that's gonna happen. I mean every I think we all,
all of us who follow m M a kind of
brace for that bad news every time, you know, you
tune in for a paper, because sometimes somebody has a
flu or get injured very late in training camp, and
there's substitutions all the time, and then there's you know moment,
you know, moments like when Randy Cotour had the eye

(01:13:09):
injury and it cuts short his main event against Betre
Bellford in a match that people were really looking forward to,
and his eyelid got torn and they had to call
the match and it was just deflating. You know that
that feeling happens in real sports, and you know, and
it can happen in pro wrestling for similar reasons. I'm
actually kind of surprised. I mean, if somebody has the
flu and they can, you know, if they can quote
suck it up and get out there and try to

(01:13:30):
get through a short match with some limited as long
as they're not going to throw up in the ring.
I think, you know, there are guys who go out
there working under physical ailments that they wouldn't go into
a real fight with or a real sporting event with.
So that's probably why we see fewer you know, he's
out sick type moments, or he's got the stomach you know,
he's got a stomach virus type thing. Most wrestlers do

(01:13:51):
make their shows, and it's it's actually kind of impressive
what percentage of wrestlers do show up for their dates.
Especially Okay, I've got one for you.

Speaker 2 (01:14:00):
October two thousand and seven, John Cena got injured a
week before he was supposed to defend the title. I
think at no mercy and they had to, uh, they
had they They went in without advertising with the who
would be fighting for the WB title and Rob a being.

Speaker 1 (01:14:15):
Of course Randy Orton a triple Ah yep, yep, I
remember that now too. Uh, Pat, we haven't talked to
you yet on the live caster on OD I should
say on on VI at the audio here yet about
what you thought of Rob and a few key things
from from the episode, beginning with the follow up to
Michael Cole, Jerry Lawler and uh and kind of missed

(01:14:37):
in the mix there. Well, what do you think about
how how they handled Jerry Lawler trying to get an
explanation and and and a share of revenge for what
Cole did the week before.

Speaker 2 (01:14:45):
I mean, I thought it was good as a one
week solution, have a solution to get him through Monday show.
I you know, I still have a problem with the
idea that Cole is going to come back this coming
Monday and everybody's going to act as if as if
nothing happened. I thing I think that they for a
while now, because of how big they've made it, they
can't have Cole and Lawler at the same announced table.

(01:15:07):
Yeah you know, whether that involves I mean moving Lawler
to SmackDown where he could be with Grisham and Matt
Striker and boy, I'm sure he'd love that, or you know,
or you just move Cole to smack Down and keep
Josh Matthews where he is.

Speaker 1 (01:15:21):
Do you think, at the foregone conclusion, Pat that Cole
even gets goes back to announcing, or do you think
he at least it's not a stretch of time, becomes
a heel character.

Speaker 2 (01:15:29):
No, it's not. Well, he should become a heel character.
That would be the best way to solve this problem.
Then you would, and you know, and if you did that,
then he could still he could still be an announcer.
He just can't be the play by play announcer. Can't
be the voice of WWE guy right.

Speaker 12 (01:15:51):
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(01:16:12):
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Speaker 1 (01:16:37):
What do you think of Josh Matthews? Is he good
enough to kind of pick up pick up that spot,
that major seat.

Speaker 2 (01:16:44):
I mean, he's not the best, but if you want
somebody who's going to sort of hold that middle ground
and just call the matches and you know, be straight
down the middle, and he seems to be somebody who
at least Kevin Dunne is fond of because he so
he's so young and handsome or whatever the qualification is.
Then yeah, I mean, as long as you don't make

(01:17:05):
him into a goof or or make him know too
much of a heeler's face, and yeah, I think he's
just I think he's just fine. He didn't seem to
have any you know, he blended right in on Monday
Night and you know with with with Lawla and Punk
on the show. You know, Josh doesn't have to have
a really strong personality. He just has to be able
to hold.

Speaker 1 (01:17:24):
His own out there, right, Yep, I agree. I think
Josh is good enough to do what he needs, you
know what, what needs to be done on Raw. And
I don't know that the that the role of I
don't know that the role of being the Raw host
is as big of a deal as it once was
because of the limited wrestling. That said, I still think

(01:17:47):
and I've said this the the the job that Jim
Ross did at the end selling a pay per view
and making it seem like you absolutely needed to see
this pay per view is vital. And I don't know
that Josh Matthews would be a drop off from Michael
Cole in that regard. Uh, nobody gave you that final
hard cell like Jim Ross did. And and you know
so that that that's a concern, but.

Speaker 2 (01:18:07):
Overall and yeah, and you know there were times, there
were times Waid when that wasn't easy making that hard cell,
and Jim Ross would do it, yes, based on what
it happens.

Speaker 1 (01:18:17):
Yeah, and he did so while retaining his credibility. You know,
he didn't he didn't do it in a way where
you're just like, oh, he's so full of it.

Speaker 2 (01:18:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:18:26):
Yeah, I'm curious where they go with this. I thought
Lawler got at least a measure of revenge by being
instrumental and cold getting the r k O. I thought
that was vital for Lawler to retain his dignity and people,
you know, and to have fans respect him after what
Cole did to him. That even though he couldn't actually
do it too Coal, he was able to, you know,
accidentally shove him right into an r KO. Okay, how

(01:18:46):
about how about missus title rain so far? What do
you think of how he's being portrayed and and and
the angles with Randy Orton.

Speaker 2 (01:18:53):
Well, I mean, I mean it's pretty easy because he
hasn't done much of anything. He's He's faced Jerry Lawler
in a TLC match, and you know that wasn't bad.
I mean, they are not really using him as a
dominating champion, and I think that the reason. I think
that they think it'll be a big surprise if you know,
miss who isn't portrayed as a tough guy, can hold

(01:19:17):
on to the title until WrestleMania. I really think that's
their plan to him with him. I think that's what
they like to do. They like having a what you
call a vulnerable heel champion and giving him a little
bit of a run and then and then letting their
top baby face beat him at WrestleMania.

Speaker 1 (01:19:35):
And then the big storyline. John Cena with Wade Barrett,
I have mixed feelings on what they did. I'm intrigued
by the storyline. What did you think of of the
latest chapter in the dynamic with scene of being fired
and I think kind of getting a leg up in
terms of mind games on Wade Barrett.

Speaker 2 (01:19:54):
Yeah, I mean, I you know, I know you and
Jason talked about this yesterday, and it's gone way too fast.
They I think they're in a hurry to get to
wherever they're going next. They've decided that this, you know,
this storyline isn't working. They they made a mistake and
perhaps in putting Sena under Nexus's thumb, and they didn't
want to do any sort of angle. We're seen is

(01:20:15):
off TV for a while. But yeah, I mean, I'm
curious to see what they come up with next. I
don't think they can have you know, it would be
better if they didn't have seen the come back next week,
if if Wade Bear, if Wade Bear just found a
way to say no, or it was some sort of
swerve and they all beat up Sina. I mean, I think,
you know, I think that they they haven't done a

(01:20:37):
great job yet of making people want him back because
he hasn't been gone.

Speaker 1 (01:20:42):
Yeah. I still think, though, does wwe really want to
create the impression that John Cena won't be on television.
I mean, I think we've seen that when they when
they do that, there's a drop off and rating. I
think I think they're not going to I think they're
going to sacrifice the storyline being done in an eye
deal way in exchange for making people think tune in

(01:21:03):
because John Cena is still going to be here every week.
I think they're willing to lose a little bit of
credibility on the stipulation in order to keep those Sena
fans watching. I don't think they can handle a two
or three tenths of a rating drop at this point.
In what USA Networks looking for and what they want
to accomplish this quarter, I think they almost have to
keep John Cena on the show every week and give
the impression that he is, even even if it undercuts

(01:21:25):
the storyline a little bit.

Speaker 2 (01:21:27):
Well, I mean the problem with that is this would
have given them to get the opportunity to get somebody
whose name is not John Cena over, and I think
they've missed an opportunity with Wade Barrett. I mean, he's
not as big a star as he could have been
coming out of this. And you know right now, the
other problem is what's going on here is is really
overshadowing Randy Orton in the news.

Speaker 1 (01:21:50):
Yeah, at some point, getting making any something going on
that doesn't involve John Cena but does involve the world title.
It has to seem like the main event, and you're right,
Sena was away for a while, the focus would shift
to Randy Orton and Miss Moore and that's the downside.
But the upside is John Sena is a pretty good draw.
John Zena is their top guy, and if he doesn't

(01:22:11):
have the title, even if the person who holds the
title seems potentially secondary to Sina, that's at least another
tool that you have to put out there on raw
and on pay per view to draw. Let me ask
you this, when is the first John Cena Wait Barrett
match likely to be and when do you think it
should be?

Speaker 2 (01:22:28):
They've already wrestled uh one, I'm.

Speaker 1 (01:22:31):
Sorry since he I'm sorry, since he got fired, Like
when will he get his revenge?

Speaker 2 (01:22:37):
I'm Wade Barrett. Yeah, it could be. It could be
as soon as this pay per view.

Speaker 1 (01:22:43):
Three's they are they move. They're pacing themselves in a
way where I don't think they want to go to,
you know, to one of the next two or three
pay per views to wait for seen it for the
first scene of Barrett match, then seen a Quote gets
rehired or reinstated. I think they're wanting to move pretty quickly.
On that because the batteries are such where I think
they don't feel they can afford to go a whole
a whole card without John Cena being overtly advertised for it.

Speaker 2 (01:23:05):
Yeah, they are so. I mean they are so concerned
with their with their by rates, you know, with their
especially for the secondary pay per views, that I I
don't think they're willing to leave Johnsona off the show
now that you've talked in it. Yeah, they don't want
to have him wrestle on them. The only real person
he should be wrestling is Way Barrett.

Speaker 1 (01:23:25):
What getting We didn't talk a lot about tn A
on on this show, but we'll end on a on
a TNA note. What we talked about ten A pay
per view on Sunday talked a little bit about Samoa Joe.
What do you think about the job Matt Morgan is
doing and is he somebody that you think TENNA should
kind of stick with as a top baby face and
if so, how would you slot him relative to say,

(01:23:47):
mister Anderson and Samoa Joe and Kurt Angle.

Speaker 2 (01:23:49):
Okay, I know Matt Morgan is a nice guy and
you know he's he's better than he was, But no,
they shouldn't be a top baby face. He should be
He should be a mid level bit of the face
if you're going to do that with him, and you know,
he seems like he is, I mean, and they made
him look like enough of an idiot so far that
I don't you know, I don't think people are going

(01:24:11):
to buy into another month of Morgan versus Hardy. I
think they're gonna I think they're going to transition to
Jeff Hardy versus Ken Anderson and Morgan. We'll be fighting
somebody else, you know, somebody, maybe Abyss again or maybe
one of the guys in Fortune.

Speaker 1 (01:24:25):
If you're TNA and you're making plans for twenty eleven,
let's say you're not. You're not the current DNA, but
somehow you get Dixie Carter's ear, or let's say a
new booking team comes in. Who what direction you go?
In two thousand and we just ran on the one
year ago cover story from the Torch where Hogan announced
the Big January had to head battle with Raw and

(01:24:47):
it was just such a different feeling back then. There
was such a potential, there was a feeling of excitement
within TNA. We're gonna swing for the fences and it's
just been a really, really rough year. A lot of
broken dreams, had a lot of excuse making, and I
think a lot of the nile what is their best
chance going into twenty eleven to make some progress?

Speaker 2 (01:25:06):
I think you've written about it a few times, and
you're not the only one. A couple of our other
columnists have. I think they need to cut ties with
the Millionaire's Club, the the TNA version of the Millionaire's Club,
and the get rid of them, buy them out, or
do whatever they have to and start with the younger
wrestlers and start looking to pick up guys, you know,
to pick up young guys off of the NDS and

(01:25:27):
and you know, create their stars that way. And I
think they desperately need to fire there. You know, they
need a new creative team. And you know, the new
creative team can't be a bunch of guys who want
to look at the big picture and let Vince Russo
write all their shows for them. I mean that's yeah.
I mean, I mean, I know we I know you've
talked about the idea that a wrestling show, it's all

(01:25:48):
aboy wrestling show needs to be written. Is you know ridiculous.

Speaker 1 (01:25:53):
Yeah, I'm saying that sounds equally ridiculous to the people
who have made a living writing TV shows, and I
think but I agree with you, Pat one hundred percent.
I just think they look at perpetrating the the false
notion that the TV show has to be intricately written.
It's important for them to perpetrate that because well, otherwise

(01:26:14):
they are obsolete.

Speaker 2 (01:26:15):
Well okay, I mean it will be one thing if
TNA was intricately written, you know and written. Well, but
it's not. I mean, it's the it's the same, you know,
it's I mean they recycle the same crap every six months,
with just different players in different spots. Yeah, yeah, you know,
there there is, uh. I mean, there's nothing new or
innovative or or exciting about what they do. A few

(01:26:37):
of their performers are new and innovative and exciting. The
ones that were, some of them are, some of them
have been burned down, will need to be repackaged. It's
nothing else.

Speaker 1 (01:26:46):
Pad very good, will We'll end the VP. You have
to show on that note, pleasure is always thanks for.

Speaker 2 (01:26:51):
Joeing, okay, and we will we will do it again.

Speaker 1 (01:26:55):
Yes we will. Why don't you close out the show first,
pad as only you can I can.

Speaker 2 (01:27:01):
Okay, Well I don't think I have any musical numbers.
Uh well, I actually let me see what I can do.
This will shock you, Wade that back in school, I
was a bit of a geek and one of my
talents was for remembering obscure TV shows. So are you
familiar with fire Scign Theater?

Speaker 1 (01:27:19):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (01:27:20):
Okay, Fire Science Theater for a brief while in the
late eighties did a syndicated version of their Doctor Science
that it was the Doctor Science television show. So let
me see if I can pull this out of the
recess of the memory. Oh. I was born in a
petri dish in Laboratory, Pennsylvania. My parents thought I was
a dog and sent me to the pound, and I

(01:27:41):
went to a dog obedient school with a it knows
how to train you. The University, the finest school around. Yes,
University was a well respected college. We learned of space
and vinegar, of bugs and styling gel of toothpaste, pomes,
the speed of light, flowers, trees and dirt, things that
stink and noisy things and things that creep dens. Work Today.

(01:28:03):
I'm not a doctor, but you can call me one.
Some folks call it science, but I just call it fun.
Upon my every statement, you may have complete reliance I
know more than you do. Call me doctor science. There
you go, There you go. Yay.

Speaker 1 (01:28:23):
I wish I had an applause track for you, Pat,
that's all right. You channeled Lenny Popol there for a
little bit at the beginning, and then and then got
into into the whole. It went from poetry to singing
and it was poetry in motion. Thank you very much, Pat.
I hope that made everybody's evening or day. And until
next Wednesday, we're hopefully Pat will have another piece ready.
Because Pat McNeil thinks the Hits was a big hit

(01:28:43):
in the two thousands during the real deal days. We
maybe you can look forward to that again. Until then
on behalf of Pat mcgil wait Keller. Thank you for
listening and signing off. If you missed it earlier. Just

(01:29:13):
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(01:29:55):
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Speaker 13 (01:30:06):
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Thanks for listening to our podcast. Did you know we
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