15 YRS AGO: John Cena and The Nexus, angles compared to storylines, suggestions for Overhaul of WWE and TNA, more

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 2 (01:05):
Now, PW Torch and Speaker bring you the Wade Keller
Pro Wrestling Podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:15):
Today and the wayd Keller prog Wrestling Podcast. We're jumping
back fifteen years to the October six, twenty ten episode
of the PW Torch live cast. PW Torch Assistant editor
James Caldwell guest hosted for me with PW Torch nostalgia
specialist Brian Hoops. They talked about ross TV ratings, storyline
developments with John c and Nexus, analysis of land Storm's

(01:36):
column on angles compared to storylines, thoughts on overhauling w's
product per the Question of the Day, TNA's live impact
on Thursday, Hok Cogan's back injury, shoot or Swerve, TNA's
surprises and changes, plus Pat McNeil jumped in for the
Live Events Center, and more. In the previously VIP exclusive
after show portion, they talked about overhauling TNA's products similar
to WWE's question Today, including emphasis on the X Division,

(01:58):
take Wrestling, and women's wrestling. They also look back at
the twenty years ago Progressing Torch newsletter analysis of the
nineteen ninety Survivor series with a lot of big bodies
from the steroid era in those matches, also b October
versus October and more So Let's get to it this
again originally live streamed on October sixth, twenty ten, and
it is today's way. Keller parostsing podcast for Wednesday, October eighth,

(02:21):
twenty twenty five. Tomorrow will feature the weekly flagship a
couple days later than usual. PW Torch columnist Greg Parks
joining me to preview a big weekend.

Speaker 3 (02:33):
You're listening to the PW Torch live cast. This is
p tow TOWRTS Assistant editor James Caldwell osting today on
Wednesday October six, twenty ten, and I'm joined today by
Torts Nostalgia columnist Brian Hoops. Brian, how are you doing today?

Speaker 4 (02:49):
Hey, I'm doing great. How are you today? James?

Speaker 3 (02:52):
Doing good? Busy day. Still still recovering my voice from Saturday.
It's in four days. I think that blew up. I'm
thinking day to day on the voice here. That's uh
blew to the Copper Bowl. Yeah, I'm coming back and
it was horrible on Monday and Tuesday. I could barely
hold a conversation. But yeah, we have a lot, a

(03:14):
lot to talk about uh today Uh a lot of
those sports talk will get which has some relation to wrestling.
But of course we want to take your phone calls
on the wrestling since this is the wrestling show with
a lot of items in the news on on Raw.
They were all ratings up. What it might look like
next week? Was the sports talk will kind of mix

(03:36):
in there n next last night, did you watch the
show on w's website. We'll take your questions on that.
T and A am busy a couple of days coming
up with you Live Impact on Thursday, mcfoley and Rick
Flair in a Battle Royal and then all of course
the Down for Glory pay per view on Sunday, So
we'll talk that as well as any other topics in

(03:56):
the news. Right. Also some items on Edge and he
was traded to SmackDown. Well, what was that kind of
jump out you as one of the bigger news stories
of the week or what else is kind of jumped
out at you the first three days of the league?

Speaker 4 (04:11):
Well, you missed the biggest news item. That's the Randy
Moss being traded to the Vikings.

Speaker 3 (04:15):
I'll set you up there.

Speaker 4 (04:16):
Yeah, yeah, I figured you were, you know, and there
is a little bit of a wrestling story there from
the standpoint that you know with this Moss trade, it
means the Vikings will play on Monday night, which obviously
they were going to anyway. But you know, there's this
much more of an intrigue. Now another story with Moss
coming back to the Vikings, more interest in that Monday
night football game as far as people tuning in to

(04:38):
watch the Vikings. They already had a pretty big story
with Brett Farb who's always a big ratings draw and
now he's coming back to New York for the first
time since he was released by the Jets. So you've
got a lot of backstories here competing with the Monday
night game with Monday Night Raw, and so you know,
the ratings jumped up this last week. What are they
going to do against what figures to be pretty big

(05:00):
ratings draw with moths story coming back to the Vikings,
Brett fire from back in New York, And of course
the Jets are always a big ratings go off being
from a New York market, So rob ratings could be
in trouble on Monday again.

Speaker 3 (05:14):
Yeah, Dobbe is probably open for a blowout. That might
be the only way one way or the other. A
blowout might be the only way that they say about
a three point oh next week. But if they are ball,
if they are above a three point oher next week
and it's a close game, all the Backstories is a
good game to me. That's the indication the audience is
is interested in this latest storyline with John Cena and Nexus.

(05:39):
How that's gonna play out? I mean, I think that
was probably the main reason why that rating jumped on
on Monday to a three point three after a two
point seven last week was you know what's going on
with Sena in First Night is part of Nexus? How
it's gonna play out? That's gonna think it's so important
on Monday Show. They've got to get people looked right
away to find out, you know, what kind of situation

(06:00):
Sene will find himself in, and that might be how
they survived this fall season up against football. At another Faull
TV programming is what what what Harry situation is John
Cena find himself in this week? Because right now that
they're not selling matchupson Orton Wade Barrett, you know it's
okay as vapor view main event, I think, but you

(06:22):
know or Orton as a champion right now, Brian, how
do you evaluate him as a top star. I'm kind
of by default because he is a champ, is now
the default top baby face and Sina is kind of
forced into a semi pseudo heel role. What is your
ticket on Orton as a champ right now after a
couple of weeks of him holding that title and being

(06:43):
a default top champ in top baby face.

Speaker 4 (06:45):
Yeah, and we should go back to your original question.
I kind of skipped over there as far as its
being drafted the snack, because that's a pretty big story
as well that you know, this deal with Arden, it
almost feels like he's kind of a forced champion or
a rush champion. They almost get the impression they didn't
really know what to do with him. They wanted him
to be this Steve Austin type heel face character, be

(07:08):
the face of the company and try and take a
run with him, which you know, I give him credit
for doing that. I don't have any problems at all
with with giving him a push or giving him a
chance to run with the ball. Here. It's gonna be
a question of how he connects with the fans, and
we've seen in some cities where he really connects with
the fans and people are into him. There's there's been
less of a reaction on TV so far or a

(07:31):
pay per view events, and you know, if they're gonna
go all the way with him. They probably should have
went with him in the main event against Seamus rather
than the undertaker Kine at the last pay per view.

Speaker 3 (07:42):
Yeah, I was curious. I really I don't understand why
they did it other than they wanted to close with
Paul Behr and then the yields turn. But I mean
it was that at an angle that was so important
that you had to close a pay per view with
Probably not so I would have called the word sehamous
and solidified that is a top guy, a top star,
not just well scene is off doing this thing with Nexus,

(08:05):
so we've got to put the belt on someone. Uh,
let's go with Orton. He's pretty hot right now, you know.
That's that's why it comes across right now. I mean
Orton wasn't even on the show on Monday until you
know the overrun, and part of that I think was
by design to focus on on seen in Nexus as
the very key storyline of the entire company right now. Uh,
And for the most part it seemed to work so far,

(08:28):
at least based on Monday's rating. We'll find out next Monday.
I don't think it's gonna help business, though, I mean,
I think Land Storm had a great column on on
Storm Wrestling dot Com talking about angles versus storylines, UH
and Brian. He touched on a lot of things that
we talked about, which is that, Uh, you know, when

(08:48):
you have a good angle that's leading to a a
money match and Max you're gonna want to see on
pay per view, You're gonna want to spend money to
see that match blown off. It seems like today's wrestling
it's about the storyline and that doesn't make money. It's okay, Well,
the match is part of the storyline. I'll tune into
TV to find out what happened in that match, you know.

(09:08):
And that's kind of where this is right now. And
it's and I think that's partly why ww's business is down.
Even Bearings, one of the lead financial publications in the world,
took notice of that, did a story on ww's business
down turned twenty ten this weekend. So what do you
make of what they can? I mean, can they do

(09:28):
something with what they have right now in terms of
creating a hot angle that would get people to spend money?
I mean, is Randy Ortenver's way they're worthy of a
pay per view buy at broad and Rice coming up
in a couple of weeks.

Speaker 4 (09:41):
Look, yeah, it's a good topic to talk about, and
we can use the edge question that you asked me
that you're earlier to discuss this, because I think they're
really missing a good angle to lead to some buying
into You said edge was rapped the SmackDown or traded
the SmackDown. Where is the mystery or the intrigue in that.
You know, you've got a paper you coming up in
three weeks, you don't have any matches announced for it.

(10:04):
If they're going to do a bragging rights where it's
Team Raw versus Team SmackDown, what's the consequences for winning
or losing? You know, in my mind, it would have
made a lot of sense that the winning team gets
to draft a member of the opposing faction. So in
this case, if SmackDown wins, they can draft somebody from Raw.
If your plan is to move an edge from Raw

(10:26):
to SmackDown, why not go with an angle such as
that that gives your pay per view main event a purpose,
a reason. And if if you're gonna move him anyway,
has smacks Team SmackDown win, their draft pick is his
edge and he comes over to SmackDown at that point.
It gives credibility to your pay per view because Edge

(10:47):
is a big name and him leaving Raw and going
to SmackDown can and should be treated like a big deal. Plus,
it gives your stipulations for the match some credibility as well,
and that's something they're badly lacking, is incredibility on their
STEPU Light.

Speaker 1 (11:02):
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(11:25):
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Speaker 3 (11:33):
Yeah exactly that, you know, like you said that, there
is no there is no I mean, first of all,
there's no backstory to have a Robbers SmackDown match. That
was the same problem they ran into last year, and
the same with you know why they had the breaking
point payper b last year, which was all submissions. There
was just no reason for that to happen. W does

(11:53):
not play up a sort of competition between Ron and SmackDown.
There's just too much cross promotion and too much October
and you know, yeah, Michael Cole, who's kind of you know,
now he's gonna be on SmackDown, So now it's kind
of watered down there. Uh. You know, it's just you know,
it's one of those things where they're trying to fit
these theme pay per views into the into the running

(12:16):
narrative of a year long storyline in W. You know,
just a grand storyline and all these little storylines that
are part of it. They're trying to weave that in,
and it's just it's just hasn't been successful. Hell on
the Cell on Sunday. There wasn't really a need for
Borton Seamus and being a Hell in a Cell match,
you know, it just didn't really need to happen. So,

(12:37):
you know, we'll see, we'll see if they can create
something in the leaks to come and artificially try to
boost up this pay per view as being important. But
I think the discerning viewers and people who don't feel
the need to spend forty five dollars in a pay
per view for a glorified TV show. We'll just kind
of their pay per views have turned into now. I
just don't think that those people are gonna order this

(12:58):
pay per view, even with an art official build ups.

Speaker 4 (13:01):
So yeah, and you've got the problem to other problems
going that weekend as it comes the day after a
big brock Lesner UFC fight. Saturday Night is Lesnar versus Velasquez,
So that's going to do huge numbers for the UFC,
and if fans are forced to choose between one of
the two, most likely we're gonna go with the With Lesnars,

(13:22):
that's a bigger card and a better value. And then
on Sunday night, the Vikings Packers game is Sunday Night,
and you know it's diehard Viking fans like myself. I'd
much rather watch that football game that has meaning and
consequences along with a lot of the drama and intrigue,
rather than you know, spend money on a pay per
view that, like you said, is glorified TV match or

(13:43):
TV show.

Speaker 3 (13:44):
Yep, there you go. Well, we've all still been covering
it though on T to B towards dot com it
might say, I mean with with that game on I
believe it's you know, the football game is in Green
Bay Ride and the pay per views of Minneapolis, so
uh yeah, so well we'll see what way Kellor was
gonna be doing. But uh I I took Helen to

(14:05):
sell off for my one year anniversary one in your
wedding anniversary, so maybe way we'll say bragging rights top.
Well we'll just balance it out that way. Who knows,
we'll see. But uh, of course we have the covers
at PB towards dot com, as well as the Bound
for Glory pay per view from TNA this Sunday, so
three four major pay per views this month, and we'll
have all that covered here on PB towards dot com.

(14:26):
I want to give up the phone number. Gonna jump
on the phone lines and give us a call Talk
Wrestling Today. The number to call it six four six,
seven to two one nine eight two eight. Well, let's
go to our first caller today. This is from the
nine to three to one area code nine three one.
Welcome to the show, please stay to day and who
you're from?

Speaker 5 (14:44):
Hey, it's Beanston Tennessee.

Speaker 3 (14:46):
Hey, what do you have for us today?

Speaker 5 (14:49):
Well, I wanted to ask you guys if you had
heard the story about Britius Beefcake Ed Leslie or whatever
you want to call him possibly coming into TNAH.

Speaker 3 (15:00):
As I can, is he gonna Replaceball Cogan the six
man tag and stay for Well.

Speaker 5 (15:07):
The quote that I read was that he was coming
in with Hulk Cogan and they were going to start
from scratch to do in WO style, And that just
really made me go, really, did they just not care
now at all?

Speaker 3 (15:20):
I don't think they've cared for a long time, but gosh,
I just that I would just throw my hands in
the air. I think I would just stop my report
at that point and say this, this company is doomed.
I mean, when I wasn't bringing back the Warrior and
the do the whole you know, one Warrior Nation all
over again. Brian Beef, Gag and Leslie in TNA on

(15:43):
Wrestling TV in twenty ten. What are your thoughts?

Speaker 4 (15:47):
Nobody wanted to see him fifteen years ago when Hulgan
brought him into WCW and part of the engine of Doom,
and then he was part of the nWo crew. Nobody
wanted to seem then no one wants to see now.
But I've read that in review where ed Leslie talks
like he is coming in with and that's been Hogan's
mo throughout his careers. He's taking care of his friends

(16:08):
like Brian Nobs and ed Leslie and brought him into
promotions where he's had power. There is a lot of
talk about after Bound for Glory making some changes in
their direction, as they're going to do some blowouts of
the Feutier and possibly ending the the EV two angle
and going with a new faction, something similar to an
nWo faction led by Hogan. So you know, there may

(16:30):
be some credibility to this rumor that Leslie's talking about
that he's coming in and wrestling again.

Speaker 3 (16:38):
Oh gosh, we need to think of a wrestling yeah, gush.
I just wish TNA would just settle on a one
on one feud another guy's flayer at Fulwood. That's stable related,
that's faction related. It's based on a backstory from twenty
years ago that they had not explained well and that
nobody cares about anymore, so that that's an issue. I

(16:58):
just want to see two guys having a viewed over
over a title or continuing for a title. How about that?
That's kind of a novel idea. Now, gosh, so t
hard of factions, but uh, do you get me? There
are any other fall up on on on Beefcake or
another question?

Speaker 5 (17:14):
Well, I mean I liked him back in the w
W last days that I was ten, so I guess.
But uh, I had one other question with with Kine
as a champion on SmackDown, if they dragged this thing
with the Undertaker out, who who is he gonna face

(17:36):
for the title aside from Undertaker because really he's done
just about every match with everybody on that roster to
death already.

Speaker 3 (17:47):
I could see Edge you're talking about, Okay, if you
do a Kane, yeah, I can see Edge. Edge would
be one after that. I mean, they could always go
back and and revisit mysterio, but I'd say Edge might
be I mean, Brian, I mean kind of the way
that I see Undertaker and Kane playing out is that

(18:10):
and we've seen this before that I believe, and I haven't.
I haven't eard any confirmation is but I believe they're
doing a very live match at Bragging Rights or some
pay per view. Maybe you've seen the Survivors series. So
let's say Kane wins that one Undertaker disappears, they come
back to WrestleMania, they have the blowoff match. It's, you know,
the streak versus a career or Undertaker puts a streak

(18:31):
in his career on the line or something, you know,
some sort of We've got to escalate this thing for
the fourth match. But in the interim, I can see
Edge and Kine being in feud. Is there something else
that you see, Brian.

Speaker 4 (18:44):
Yeah, it's hard to say where they're gonna go with
that because they don't have a lot of guys on
that baby face side of the roster. So you know,
I think that's one reason why they're bringing Edge over
is to keep the feud going with Katee. He's a
guy that can carry the bulk of a match.

Speaker 6 (19:00):
You know.

Speaker 4 (19:00):
They they flip flopped him back and forth between hell
and Face, and at this point, you know, we haven't
had a real turn other than him just showing up
and confronting Jack Swagger at one point and acting as
in the role.

Speaker 3 (19:11):
Of the face.

Speaker 4 (19:11):
So it's not something the fans will probably get emotionally
invested in I really think there's probably better directions that
they could go with, but they've seen intent on running
with that with that premise right now that Kane is
holding the title and at some point the Undertaker comes back,
gets his revenge. But you're you're so limited on what
you can do with with these guys, and you've they've

(19:32):
kind of done the big angle with the Hell and
the Cell pay per view You've done the Paul Bahr
Gammick already, so they're kind of running out of options
in this. I don't know if they can carry it
to WrestleMania. I think maybe they're gonna have to, you know,
clean this thing up, maybe by Survivor series or even Royal.

Speaker 3 (19:49):
Rumble Jack Swagger. To me, this guy's I mean swagger.
Watching him on Friday, he's now like a combination of
kerr Angle and King Booker with a mascot, and it's
just I don't get what they're doing with him other
than what we got to find a way to keep
him on TV. Oh, let's give him that Ted Dvant

(20:10):
heel heat by having with the mascot, all the kids
laugh at him. I just it's not money drawing, So
that's kind of disappointing, but I mean, yeah, the depth
on the SmackDown roster is still weak right now, especially
the baby they side with Christian going down. I mean,
it wasn't like Christian was being elevated at the top
star anyways, but just to have him as a guy
you could put in there with with with the Cane,

(20:33):
with the Jack Slager, with the del Rio, with a Ziggler,
something like that, it seems like they're trying to elevate
MVP and he's someone I think that's been ready for
a look in the main event slot for a while
and they just haven't really done anything with them, or
they really haven't even tried, and he's been doing sort
of mid card stuff lately, you know, m v P.
I don't know if MVP Ver's cane that I mean,

(20:54):
that's fresh, but I don't know if it's intriguing. Who knows. Well,
we'll see all that. We'll see We'll see what happens
after the center Taker match, which we assume will be
at Bragging Rights. But uh, Ian, good call there. Appreciate that.

Speaker 7 (21:08):
Need an extra dose of positivity in your wrestling podcasts.
Will come join me, Alan forel Over in the Progress
Paradise at Peterbo Torch VIP as we mask on the
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(21:28):
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Speaker 3 (22:14):
Let's go ahead and go to the eight six to
oh area code eight six oh. Welcome to the show.
Please say shame where you're from.

Speaker 8 (22:20):
Hi, I'm Johns from Connecticut.

Speaker 3 (22:22):
Hey John, what's going on today? I? Like you, I
will just enjoy a lovely afternoon. So what do you
have for it?

Speaker 8 (22:32):
I was just wondering, with all the issues with you know,
tills and everything else going on with wrestlers, is there
anything being done to actually change the rings themselves to
make bumps a little softer for the wrestlers?

Speaker 3 (22:43):
And Brian, have you heard anything about that?

Speaker 4 (22:46):
You know, as they haven't done a lot of changes
as far as the ring. You know, they did compared
to twenty years ago. A lot of times back in
the old promotional territory days, they even used boxing rings
which were really hard and guys really complained about. But anymore,
some of these rings softened up quite a bit. If
you're watch an ROH match, their rings are probably as

(23:06):
much give as anything. But I think they've improved a lot.
And you don't hear a lot of guys getting injured
taking a regular bump in the ring. It's more of
some other type of injuries doing a wild stunt or
muscle tears, which are as a caller mentioned, a results
of other drug issues. And I think that in fact,
I read that t Anda just had a drug test

(23:28):
and a lot of failures came out of it, but
they did not cite who the wrestlers were. There was
no discipline, and they didn't explain what type of drugs
were found in their systems. They just mentioned it, told
the people that they failed the test and have moved on.

Speaker 3 (23:45):
Yeah, I mean, TENNA doesn't have a policy. I mean
they just they randomly. I mean it's random in the
sense that I'm not even sure that they planned in advance.
They just say, well, we've had a drug test in
a while, it's goad and do one.

Speaker 6 (23:57):
You know.

Speaker 3 (23:58):
It's just there isn't a sort of every six months,
will do this every three months. I mean, no, you
don't want the talent to know, but there's gotta be
a system in place where us on the outside can say, okay.
Pienna has actually taking some steps to address the health
of the wrestlers. As far as the qualities that are
I guess the changes to the ring. I haven't really
heard anything specific, but I know that Chris Nowinski didn't

(24:20):
interview where he said that he talked to Vincent Man
and WW is gonna have wrestlers doing on a lot
fewer bumps and developmental which I thought was a good
way to start sort of at the grassroots, foundational level
of you know, kind of re educating those wrestlers who
come up through developmental on safety and health issues and

(24:42):
that sort of thing. I still don't see enough on
the main level. There's still a lack of transparency with
their concussion testing. They have a policy, but they don't
talk about how it's applied. We don't know if wrestlers
are treated for concussions or are specific examp of when
that's happened. Uh So those are some issues that still

(25:03):
need to be addressed. But yeah, like Brian said, I
don't hear too many complaints about the ring. I think
wrestlers are probably you know, probably taking a fewer bumps now,
especially with especially with the lack of resting on TV
these days. Which you know, if you have a hot
product and you can get away with that, that that
can be a good thing, that can help save wrestlers
by not taking as many bombs. But when your TV

(25:26):
product is just bad promos and a lack of wrestling,
and it's a double issue. So a couple a couple
of good developments there. But uh, John to Jimmy, any
other question or follow up on that.

Speaker 8 (25:36):
I was just wondering if you had any idea with
a big surprise for tomorrow night on an impact going
to be well.

Speaker 3 (25:42):
As Dicky Carter would say, it's a I believe it's
a big change, which surely hasn't been talking about recently.
So and what I had heard a couple of weeks
ago is it's really not that big of a deal. Uh.
You know, it might be it might seem like a
big deal, or well it might seem like, oh, that's
kind of cool. I don't even know if that is,
but you know, some one of those things where almost like, uh,

(26:04):
you know when when w W went to HD and
they debuted that new Titan drown set, and it's like, oh, okay,
cool the HD, and then after a while you just
didn't even notice it anymore. It wasn't that special. That's
kind of what the sense I get that this is.
I don't know that it is HD, but I get
the sense that this is what it is, which is
that it's just something that you'll you'll notice early on

(26:25):
and it'll kind of blend in after the fact.

Speaker 4 (26:29):
I've heard at one point change that it was Mickey
James premier on TV tomorrow night too.

Speaker 3 (26:35):
Yeah, that was That was the next thing I was
going to bring up, which I believe that she is.
I believe she is a new talent. I mean, Nicky
Carter has floated so many different things. I mean, if
you kind of make the list here, I believe it.
You know, the big change, which you know isn't our
talents or a new fact. I believe it's just kind
of the presentation. And then you have the talent edition,
which I believe, like you said, is Mickey James tomorrow night.

(26:56):
Also double check and make sure it's actually hurt. I
didn't afford glory as they So that's the other big surprise.
I assume that. I mean I assumed that was Bishop
and Hogan, but now with Hogan kind of off that
show and out of the six man tag, maybe it's
just Bishop. Who knows, But tomorrow night surprise. I believe
it's just kind of production change. That that's my guess,

(27:19):
and I guess we'll find out tomorrow night. So I
can answer your question, John and Jim, did you given
a thought on that?

Speaker 5 (27:27):
That's about it?

Speaker 3 (27:29):
Okay, cool, Yeah, I appreciate the call, Brian. I mean,
we go a lot of sort of mysteries and TNA
as well as w b uh. You mentioned Mickey James
probably debuting on Tomorrow Night's show. What do you what
do you think they is or they are? I mean,
where do you think that development is going to be
on Sunday Night's payer View?

Speaker 4 (27:50):
But I kind of thought it was gonna be something
along the lines of Hogan's debuting this new faction that
you know at this end of the old faction, and
maybe those plans are out the window. Maybe you know,
some of this back injury stuff is just to work,
you know, to get out there. Yeah, you know it's
out there in the media so much that everybody just
accepted as truth. But you know, anytime you've got Russol

(28:12):
and Bishop and Hogan in there, I think you've got
to the least have the possibility that they're they're working
everybody and trying to get him to think one thing
and then come in with this big swerve that you know,
would end up probably disappointing the fans.

Speaker 8 (28:25):
But I think that's the.

Speaker 4 (28:26):
Route originally that they were gonna go with. Was, you know,
this new heel group led by Bishop and and Hogan
and uh you know, coming in trying to be the
new nw O.

Speaker 3 (28:38):
Yeah, and that's why when I kind of did the
news story today, I said, it's likely that he won't
even though even though you know, if a guy's having
surgery today and he's supposed to have a ting inserted
into his back, that will probably keep it on the
sidelines for a couple of weeks, you know, just recovering
all that said, you know, you would think, okay, he's
definitely not in a pay per view, But like you said,

(28:59):
I'm right that I'm thinking my head, okay, this is
bit shopping Hogan and Rusto so and then you never
know if you can get a swerve. That's why I
was put likely not gonna be in the pay per view,
uh well on the live TV show, because you never
know what them You just you just never know. But yeah,
Hogan was schedule for surgery, so I guess, well, we'll
see if it's all a swerve or if it's legit

(29:20):
after the pay per view on Sunday. So, uh, good
call there. John would appreciate that you're listening to the
PW George live cast. This says PW Torch assists and
entered James Caldwell hosting today with Torch Nostalgia columnist Brian Hoops.
Let's go to our next phone calls. It's from the
five to five nine area code five to five nine.

(29:40):
Welcome to the show. Please stay your him where you're from.

Speaker 9 (29:43):
Hey, this is Steve from California.

Speaker 3 (29:45):
Hey, Stable's fonte ain't then much.

Speaker 9 (29:48):
I was clicking through the channels earlier and my stuffed
on the movie Friday and then coming to thinking with
you guys think that w would ever put tiny lister
in as a celebrity in the Hall of Fame.

Speaker 3 (30:00):
Uh No, that's interesting thought, Bryan, what do you think?

Speaker 4 (30:03):
Yeah, an interesting question. I don't you know, I don't
think he's that big of a celebrity, uh, either on
the mainstream appeal level, or just didn't in his run
with WW to necessarily put him in there. I can't
say warranted because you know, you've got Vince McMahon's limel
driver James Dudley in the Hall of Fame, so there's
nobody that's really warranted in there. But you know, he

(30:26):
doesn't have the mainstream name appeal, the soil Leicester Stallone
or even a William Perry or Pete Rose, who were
celebrities that went in, and Bob Bucker went in last year.
He had more name seat mainstream celebrity appeal than Tony Lister.
I think if you put him in there, not only
are wrestling fans going to ask who and why, but

(30:47):
you're also gonna have that you know from the public,
but nobody knowing who it is. So that I just
don't see that there's a real upside to put in
Tony Lister in.

Speaker 3 (30:54):
Yeah, I agree with that. I think they would put
him in if they could do an angle and create
some sort of ale with him involved. But that you know,
that's sort of a lot of these Hall of Fame
deals is can we create an angle or sell a
DVD or or get people to tune in for the
Hall of Fame ceremony, And that might be that might
be the only way that they get him in, or
that they decide to put him in, is that they
have an angle they can do with him. So, uh, Steven,

(31:17):
any other question or follow up?

Speaker 9 (31:19):
Yeah, with the scena next to the storyline with with
Bart getting the tittle shot, can you see them going
with the with the story that if Sena doesn't help
him win the championship, he's fired and that can get
the belt on him.

Speaker 3 (31:34):
Yeah, I'm kind of wondered how far they're gonna take this.
You know, it's all like what Sina has to do
to help Barret, you know, is I would imagine that
they create some sort of stimulation, But I mean if
Scena interferes, then Bart's dqed. So I mean, even if
seen An interferes to try to help Barrett and Barrett
doesn't win, does that mean Scenas fired. It's you know,

(31:57):
it's kind of this quandary that I that I found
on all watching that Battle Royal, which is that, Okay,
if Sina wins at Battle Royal, he automatically gets the
title shot, does that trump him be fired because he
did not help Barrett win? You know, it's just they
kind of twist themselves into a knot with all these explanations,
and uh, you know, why didn't the w super the

(32:19):
row Stars, Why didn't they gang up on and Barrett
and try to eliminate him early on? So it's just
sort of the sort of puzzles wrapped in question marks.
But Brian, what's your thought on on how that match
might point out that bragging rights with Orton versus Barrett
was seen involved.

Speaker 1 (32:37):
We're about to go to a commercial break. Why listened
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(32:58):
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Speaker 4 (33:10):
You know, I agree with you on your assessment of
how it's going to play out. And one thing I
think we have to give a little credit to WWE
four is the fact that they're making us ask questions
on how these things can play out, because it really
that's what you want to create, is some sort of
an intrigue where you can't expect one thing to happen,
you can't see the other thing happening. So that's why
you got to tune in and watch it and just

(33:31):
to find out what has happened. But you know they're
gonna they're gonna create some storyline. I think this thing
has to play out. You know, this is an angle
for seeing it to be involved in when he's not
chasing the title. It keeps an exisit involved and alive
and somewhat relevant. So it's an angle that I think
they have to continue to play out. Take it at
least to to get to like maybe the Survivor series

(33:52):
at least in November and possibly even farther into December
or January.

Speaker 3 (33:57):
Yeah, this is kind of I mean, this has so
much potential. Uh, it's kind of being like that Michael's
JBL program that that lasts a while and it's a
little bit of a different you know, it's not just
two guys. There's a lot of other I mean just
look at the sort of the many stories that they
laid out on Monday's Raw. You have, uh, David O'tunga,
who seems to be forming a maybe a subgroup of Nexus.

(34:19):
You have Husky Areas and McGill cutty who are formally
introduced I guess as associates of Nexus. Mean, they don't
have the uniforms yet, but you know there's sort of
loosely a line, but they're involved. And you have John Cena,
which is you know, is he gonna try to form
a you know, a manufaction maybe with Justin Gabriel or
maybe recruit Darren Young or or or Daniel Bryant where

(34:43):
just Brian fit into this with his Nexus background being
kicked out of the group. So, I mean, it sets
up a lot of potential ways to go with this,
to stretch it out and make it in compelling all
the way throughout this year, throughout the rest of the year.
I just I'm concerned that the I twist themselves into
some questions they can't answer, like in that Battle Royal

(35:04):
But he said, Bland, I think it look that fine
line and if if the questions are man, I want
to find out what's next. Not Man, this makes no sense.
I don't get this or not get this. But man,
it's just it's just it's just stupid, you know, It's
just it's it's convoluted booking. That's the questions. They don't
want people asking or thinking. So like you said that

(35:25):
they kind of set up some good questions to ask,
uh and the crowd, you know, that crowd ate it
up on Monday. They were hot for that Battle Royal,
they were hot for the opening segment. Uh, playing that
Midwest crowd. That's very pro Sina. They can really do
a lot of different things, you know. So it's gonna
be uh, it's gonna be intriguing to see how involved

(35:45):
the crowds are week to week undraw uh, and that's
gonna help create more compelling television for this angle.

Speaker 2 (35:51):
So uh.

Speaker 3 (35:52):
I though it was a good start on Monday. You know,
I kind of gave it a seven out of ten
on on the first week of for that. You know,
John seen involved with next So there's a lot of
there's a lot of roof for growth. There's a lot
of ways they can go with this stuff. Well, I
like how they started. It wasn't perfect, it wasn't great,
but I like where they started. So, Steve, any other

(36:13):
question of follow up?

Speaker 9 (36:15):
Yeah, I was thinking if for some reason they want
Seena holding the belt going into WrestleMania, they can have
Barrett pick it up now and then you know, seeing
it help him help them and then eventually have the
match at World Rebel where he picks it up going
into WrestleMania.

Speaker 3 (36:31):
Yeah, I think that's a definitely possibility. Brian, what do
you think about that?

Speaker 4 (36:35):
I think it's possibility. I think there's a lot of
ways that they can go with this. And as long
as you know, James, like you said, if they're getting
the viewers to ask the right questions, you can they
go this way? Can they go that way? Those are
those are things that you want the questions to be
answered something logical. This makes sense. I can see it
happening this way. Or they could do this because this

(36:56):
also makes sense, and I could see that happening. Those
are type of questions, Like you said, they want the
viewers to ask themselves and become intrigued, and that's where
you start to build some interest in this match or
this angle in the pay per view event. It's the
same thing with Lesner and Carwin in here. You know
you can't see uh of are not Carwin but polasque.

(37:17):
It can't seem knocking Lesnar out because of how he
stood up to Carwin. Can he takeing for through the
five rounds we've seen Lesner? You know that he can't
be out wrestled. Those are the type of questions that
is intriguing enough to draw a million buys on pay
per view? Can WW create that with this angle with
Sina and the nexus, right?

Speaker 3 (37:37):
And you know, my problem is I don't think it's
gonna entice pay per view buys, you know, And that's
kind of the issue that W faces, which is how
do you get people to buy a pay per view
for a match? And also and at the same time,
and they have a TV product that is pretty much
the bread and butter. I mean, if they don't have

(37:57):
that TV show, they can't sell pay per views. So
I unders seeing the idea of you want to you
want to make that TV shows come telling as possible.
But they've gotta have something. They gotta have a payoff
match down the road, and they gotta be they have
to be asked. They need to be setting up viewers
to ask the questions exactly you said, Brian, like you
like a left serverse Carla or a left ser versus
Alaska's match, which is what's gonna happen when these two

(38:19):
guys get in the ring on the cage and have
a fight, and what's gonna happen? And you know you want,
you want viewers asking two layers of questions, which is,
how's the angle gonna play out? How's that match gonna
play out? And they haven't done a good job. I
don't think DNA definitely does not do a good job.
I was setting up the questions for the match. You know,
they'll set a lot of questions for the TV story linesmen,

(38:41):
because you don't know what they're talking about half the time.
But they don't do a good job. And B doesn't
do this as well. I was setting up those questions
for how is that match gonna play out? What's gonna
happen when these two guys get in the ring and
then and that's kind of in the downfall the pay
per view business for Rest and I believe, and we're
seeing it with both promotions this year and over a

(39:02):
couple of years now. It's been a while that this
has been going on, especially in TNA. Good call, Steve,
we appreciate that. Let's go to the six five to
one area code sixty five one. Welcome to the show.
Please say your name where you're from?

Speaker 10 (39:17):
It Jeans, It's Mike from Woodbury, Minnesota.

Speaker 3 (39:20):
How you doing today? It's it's Randy Moss Day up
in Minnesota. I believe I'm on cloud nine personally.

Speaker 10 (39:29):
I'll talk tickets go to the Viking New England game
on Halloween, and I was really excited to go out
there before, but now I am so far beyond excited
for that game. It's not even funny. So this has
a whole different meaning to me because I'm gonna take
advantage of it. But it's pretty awesome, prettyesome.

Speaker 3 (39:56):
But yeah, I'll show you, Yeah, go ahead. Yeah.

Speaker 10 (40:00):
I wanted to call today because she had the Question
of the Day on the Petere Towrch website with leaders
sharing ideas about business downturn, and I wanted to give
one Jason Collins a prop because I thought he had
a great idea about having getting wrestler's time off.

Speaker 3 (40:18):
But you know, in a half months there's no law.

Speaker 10 (40:22):
Two and a half months, there's no SmackDown. They only
have five pay per views a year. His idea was
kind of having SmackDown rests take June, July and half
of August off, and then they give them a couple
of weeks to build up their half at Summer Slam
and then have lat take the fall off, which I
would flip flop because I believe November is a sweeps

(40:43):
month and I don't think you want raw off the
year in November, but I think it would be good
to do that. And you know, just the idea of
the applausible weight only have a handful of pay per views,
but you know, three or five or six pay per
views total, give them time a good couple of months
between every pay per view, have brand specific pay per

(41:03):
views a couple of those to uh let mid cut
undercutter guys get pay per view bonuses. I think it
was as good as a popposition for a time off
schedules i've I've ever seen. So I wanted to know
what you guys thought of that.

Speaker 3 (41:19):
Yeah, I mean, we have a lot of a lot
of reader feedback that we're posting some more batches of
that today. I thought that was definitely one of the
best ones I read, and I was I was glad
to post that went up in the first batch. Uh yeah, Brian,
what are your thoughts on on sort of rotating the
ron SmackDown brands sort of have a uh you know,

(41:40):
however you want to structure a TV wise, but I
think it would sort of it would create. I really
think the guys create a season. I think that's one
of the main things that has to come out of
any changes to the Toby's plant. Is just a natural season,
not just hey, it's the first uh you know, it's
the first uh Monday in September, so we'll call it
a policy. Is a premiere all right, Hey, we moved

(42:01):
to a new network for SmackDown. We'll call it a
fall season premiere. It's gonna be a season. You know,
something that you can feel and you can sense, and
you know, if there does anticipation, it helps you create
a natural season. I think life and sports and TV
entertainment is built on seasons, and for whatever reason, WW
just really has not ever try to do that.

Speaker 11 (42:26):
Searching for more great pro wrestling talk, then join me
Jason Powell, host of the three weekly Pro Wrestling Boom Podcast.
Each week you'll hear the latest news and analysis for
me and my team at pro wrestling dot Net along
with other pro wrestling media members. Plus the Pro Wrestling
Boom Podcast features long form interviews with notable names in
the pro wrestling industry. Subscribe and iTunes, Stitcher, Downcast, and

(42:48):
all your favorite secondary apps or visit us directly at
PW boom dot com. Once again, that's PW boom dot com.

Speaker 3 (42:58):
So, Brian, what do you think of the proposition one
of the ones on the Torch website that we had
in the question today that that Mike talk about. What's
your reaction to that?

Speaker 4 (43:08):
You know, I think the idea is really sound, and
it really hits all the main bullet points that from
a perspective of a wrestler and giving time off and
creating some interest in the product, and getting some other
guys elevators so that they could be on the pay
per view events. It hits all those points and hit
them real well. And I think that's a good idea.

(43:29):
The devil's advocate to that, and the thing that would
prevent it probably from ever happening it comes in the
form of money, because you're looking at raw even though
the ratings have been down, it's still one of the
top ten weekly shows that is in each and every week,
and so you've got huge right speed from the USA

(43:49):
cable network paying to WWE. They're not going to WW
doesn't want to give that income up. USA doesn't want
to give up the raining ratings because that the wrestlers
need time off. It's unlikely that that'll ever happen because
of that. And you're also talking about dropping from fourteen
pay per view events down to four or five six events,
cutting virtually your income level and half. So you're going

(44:12):
to have to double your buy rates on all of
your other pay per views just to break even with
the loss of income from your current pay per view events.
So you're talking about a lot of income that's can
be lost from those two factors. And you know, Vince McMahon,
as many billions of dollars as he has, he doesn't
want to give up any income if he doesn't have to.

(44:32):
In that respects I don't see that being implemented.

Speaker 3 (44:35):
I would.

Speaker 4 (44:36):
I think you can implement some of those ideas, but
along the lines of taking your top three babyface, top
three heel stars on law and locating them in and
out of the main event status, playing some sort of
an injury angle and giving one of your top guys
in time off and elevating the third place guy to
number two, the number two guy to on top, and uh,

(45:00):
just kind of a rotational mix. Maybe do some angles
where a guy you know does the old loser leaves
the territory gimmick for ninety days and he takes ninety
days off or he get injured, and you do an
angle along those lines. But there's probably other ways to
implement some of those ideas. I just cannot see either
USA Network, WW, Spike TNA implementing those changes and him

(45:23):
trying to take so much of a downtime, even though
it makes a lot of sense.

Speaker 3 (45:27):
I think one of the ways to uh keep you know,
if you want to keep programming on the air, is
you know, really build up NXT as uh you know,
have that be that three month break is you know what,
when SmackDown has its break, you put NXT in that
slot on Sci Fi, and when Raw has its break,
you put NXT on that fly on the rotation. And

(45:49):
now you know that will require them to actually build
up the next and I have to be a joke
of the show, and you know you're gonna take a
hit in the ratings, but hopefully that'll that'll build up
more of a you know, man, I can't wait for
AW to come back, you know, and have an anticipation
for what's gonna happen the next season of RAW. I
think right now, Raw it's so familiar, and I think
a lot of viewers kind of take it for prevented

(46:11):
and they just kind of watch it a habit that
it doesn't feel special anymore. It just feels like a
show on Monday Nights that you know, you've been watching
for a while, or you've seen the same storylines for
a while. It doesn't feel unique or special. And so
they'd have to find a way to still make the
same amount of money with a different program in that slot.

(46:31):
They could even have a different show. They could have
a reality show and kind of fall around the wrestlers
on the road for three months and kind of show them,
I mean, whatever you want to do, I mean you have.
You could have a mix of a competition show and
just kind of life outside the ring. That's one idea
to fill that slot. And I think the pay per view,
you know, like you said, Brian, they're gonna take a

(46:52):
hit and lose if they dropped, you know, down to
six pay per views allost They're gonna take a hit
and not having that revenue stream and the consist and bases.
But I think over time they would be able to
rebuild that pay per view business. I'm making those pay
per views feel special and not just something that you
you know, they're just kind of thrown together with three

(47:13):
weeks of hype, you know. I think the way they're
going right now, they're gonna be in such a bad
place with pay per view business now, they're gonna have
to do something drastic, and I think they should do
it now before it gets to the point where nobody
wants to order a pay per view other than Russell
Mania SummerSlam, and even Summer Slam is down a three
hundred and thirty thousand buys this year, and I mean
it's like almost half of that is international now. So

(47:39):
something about the pay per views. I think, you know,
a cut here and a cut there isn't gonna work.
And it might, you know, it might take them dropping
down to six and losing a lot of revenue early on.
But if they can rebuild that pay per view concept
and the brand and the value of a pay per view,
I think that's gonna have a more long term benefit
to W's business. The way it's going right now, I mean,

(48:01):
the way it's going right now, they've got to make
a change, and and I think it starts the pay
per views and so we'll see. I mean, I don't
aticipate them doing anything, but uh, it's obviously got to
do something. And h So that was one of the
good ideas that I thought that we got in the
in the feedback on the question of the day. Uh,
if you want to post your idea, sit in your
idea for the question of the day on what major

(48:23):
business change you wouldn't have or you would you know,
kind of execute n W go to P two B
torch dot com and we'll take we're taking your feedback.
We'll post a couple more batches later on in the
day today and probably some more tomorrow. We have a
lot of a lot of good ideas emailed to us today,
so a lot of ideas and we will be spreading
out on the on the website. Uh later on today. Uh, Mike,

(48:47):
give either or any other question or follow.

Speaker 10 (48:49):
Up just god feedback and UH one question quickly, Uh
where do you see?

Speaker 4 (48:56):
What do you see?

Speaker 3 (48:57):
Uh as Tyler's Black's upside?

Speaker 10 (48:59):
And how long do you think he'll be n f
W before he hit us anywwe And thank you very much,
guy de Day, good.

Speaker 3 (49:05):
Question, Mike. I could see them holding off Tyler until
NXT season four. If there is a season four, Brian,
do you see Tyler Black getting a call up to
development anytime soon or do you think they'll keep him
down in developmental for a while until he you know,
quote unquote learns the WB style of wrestling.

Speaker 4 (49:25):
Yeah, unfortunately, he's gonna be probably down there for a
little while. You know, with the guy who did the Consequences,
Creed Gimmick and TNA, he's down there as well. You know,
those are guys that have probably a little bit more
experience than a lot of the guys that are in
FCW right now. I just think until they get k
roster spot open and that they know what to do
with guys like that, that he's going to be stuck

(49:47):
in developmental for a while, similar to what Brian Danielson was.

Speaker 10 (49:51):
And caval was.

Speaker 4 (49:53):
Those guys have got upside potential. The problem is again,
what are they gonna do with him? And always his
size is going to be a detriment to him. He look,
you know, look at what they're doing with Daniels, and
they gave him the US title, but then he gets
beat up by thirty seconds by a bigger guy Seamus,
you know, and that's not how you get guys over.
Cabal's already doing a job. I think he did win

(50:14):
for Travel Guerrero on SmackDown a week ago, So you know,
I think you're better off bringing them in, giving him
if you're gonna run with them, give him a good
push out of the blocks, rather than just bring him
up and not know what to do with them and
have him do jobs for guys like Travel.

Speaker 3 (50:28):
Agreed, good call, Mike, We appreciate that burnout joy body
towards Colvin's. Pat McNeil on Randy Moss Wednesday, what what's
your reaction to, uh, this Randy Moss trade. It's going
to play in their old wrestling talk here, but what
what's the reaction of the trade back to the Vikings?

Speaker 12 (50:46):
Well, you know, I think it's gonna be so different
for NFL fans, particularly Minnesota fans, when they walked aside
of Brett Farb going deep to Randy Moss and the
New York Jet ten yards in front of Randy Moss
taking him off intill of you know, Brett fag going
deep to another Minnesota receiver. Does that come out right?

Speaker 3 (51:04):
And that sounds about right? I mean it kind I mean,
we bring this up because Raw had a pretty strong
rating on Monday. There Upsode three point three, which was
you know, way up in that two point seven was much.

Speaker 6 (51:18):
Better than that.

Speaker 12 (51:19):
Yeah, that was much better than I expected. And yeah,
they I mean they had you know, some good luck
in that the football game turned out to be very
once well then well it wasn't that one side it early,
but during the second hour of Raw, the football game
was starting to get one sided. So maybe people checked
out Raw who would otherwise have struck with Football. But
that's a very good rating. It shows there was a

(51:39):
lot of interest in this in Johnsena joining Nexus, more
than more so than I thought, and they're gonna be
looking for any sort of way to keep the momentum
going right.

Speaker 3 (51:49):
And that's why it's so poor of the follow up.
And the problem is is that Monday Night's game this
coming Monday, it's a New York team versus Randy Moggs
as part of the Minnesota Viking. So I mean, are
you looking at one Monday show strong enough of a
hook to where they can kind of tetaract at that

(52:09):
big Monday football matchup with the follow up to John
Cena as part of Nexus Part two, yeah, I mean
I think.

Speaker 12 (52:16):
So if they if they come out at the top
of the show and they do another you know, tease,
another one could possibly happen next moment, or they could
have him. They could force Johnstena to finally uh you know,
as Wade and Bus talking about it, could force John
Cena to finally take off the the purple T shirt
and the jorts and uh and switching the actual wrestling gear.
You John, don't do it, no, you know, and he's

(52:39):
a big main events you know storyline where where Seena
has to fight. I think it's gonna be Seena has
to fight one of his former friends by by orders
of by orders of Nexus, and he doesn't want and
he doesn't want to.

Speaker 3 (52:52):
That's my evid Boy or Mark, Henry were Art or Buddy.

Speaker 12 (52:56):
Are true, I mean pretty much just about or John
w just not anybody will do in that spot.

Speaker 3 (53:03):
Yeah, there's almost the way to elevate and elevate a star,
you know, to make a boorn to Henry and Morrison
and our truth seems more important than they are right now.
You know. It's a dual, dual opportunity there.

Speaker 4 (53:16):
Yeah, it makes much better sense than throwing out throwing
out some version of Orton versus Seamus or Scena versus Orton,
order that sort of thing. Just dam just just keep
the storyline rolling and uh, maybe Randy Orton will get
or maybe seen it has to protect Wade Barrett from
Randy Orton, who's who's in the building looking to beat
the crap out of them, and they're all sorts of
neat stuff you could do there.

Speaker 3 (53:38):
It's gonna be very important on Monday, So that very
interesting to see how it's gonna play out.

Speaker 1 (53:46):
Anytime you're watching w W E Raw or SmackDown or
aw Dynamite in particular, send us an email if you've
got thoughts on the show or a topic you want
us to address or a question for us. Wade Kellor
Podcast at PW torch dot com, Wade Keller Podcast at
petw torch dot com. If there's anything else going on
in pro wrestling that you want us to address on
our main podcast during our mailbank segments, that same email

(54:09):
applies Wade Keller Podcast at PW torch dot com. We
invite that interaction. Let us know what you think of
what we're saying, and let us know what you want
us to talk about and ask us specific questions Wadekeller
podcast at pw torch dot com.

Speaker 3 (54:25):
I think come yeah, why you Vincent? Or what we
have coming up in the next week or so?

Speaker 12 (54:30):
All right, well, one of these days we'll have to
get background music flip. All right, you're a live event center.
Hello you people, I'm Pat McNeil. Tomorrow night, Thursday Night,
WWE Superstars on WG on America, one of James's favorite shows.
The main event, James, I dial you ready for this one?
The Heart Dynasty against the USO Brothers.

Speaker 3 (54:49):
Well, yeah, eight hundred and then spend of three months. Great, yeah,
there we go.

Speaker 12 (54:53):
That'll that'll, that'll bring him in. T and A Impact
has a live show on Thank You You Have Right Live.
And for the live show on Spite TV, we get
a twenty man gauntlet for the Gold Rumble or I
believe of some sort.

Speaker 10 (55:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 12 (55:07):
Actually, actually the weather explained it is every if ay
It's a Royal Rumble Gauntlet type match, and everybody who's
going to be on the card for uh for Bounce
for Glory is going to be in that match. So
uh did Angelina Love and Velvet Sky's fine to be
in that show.

Speaker 3 (55:22):
I'm just I don't believe. So okay, well then.

Speaker 12 (55:24):
There you go, there you go. So uh yeah, Well,
as of right now, Hull Cogan is fine to be
in a match on that show. I wonder how that's
gonna play out. I expect that we'll learn to hope
Will will not be able to wrestle or do much
of anything except twitch. Also on in Fact Live on
Spike TV, Mick Fowley, Rick Flair last man standing, Wow,
that's uh, you know that that that stipulation kind of

(55:49):
takes a little bit of a turn when you've got
a sixty year old wrestler in there.

Speaker 3 (55:52):
You know, Yeah, yeah, I think yeah it does.

Speaker 12 (55:57):
But that's those are your Those are your feature and
really they're not giving away anything that's on the pay
per view, although I can't imagine it's gonna matter at
this point. WW snackedown on SCI five this Friday night.
You know, as we SmackDown was not only down in
the ratings, it was uh, I was expecting it to
go up slightly. So they're busting out the big guns
this week. First of all, we will find out more
about Edges trade the SmackDown, because it will obviously show

(56:20):
up on SmackDown. Secondly, we'll learn a little more about
SmackDown putting together his team to take out and take
on Raw and the big bragging rights tag versus tag match,
which would have been much more effective if they hadn't
already done that match at Summerslane. And of course you're featured,
and of course your featured bounce after what happened last night.
The uh the situation between Caitlin and Vicky Guerrero, well

(56:43):
there's a twist to it, as Dolph Ziggler the man,
they're allegedly not fighting over defenses Intercontinental title against MVP.
What wacky hidens could happen there? And in your main
events Rayma Steryo versus Alberto del Rio, they could have
said for the pay per view like I told it,
told them too, but now they're gonna do it on SmackDown,
just for you people. WWE house shows this weekend, SmackDown

(57:04):
is on a tour of Mexico, including I believe three
nights in Mexico City. Those shows will be headlined by Undertaker, Kane,
Raymond Stereo, and Jack Swagger. UH and Raw is on
the West Coast this weekend as they get ready for
for the Monday Night live event in Seattle. Uh, you
ran them on Sunday at the Raw House show in Yakima, Washington.
It is avam Bourne versus Edge two out of three falls.

(57:27):
I wonder who's gonna win that one? And Brandy Orton
depending the the ww title against Shamus in the Cage. Yeah,
that's on Sunday for all the great people in Yakima.
It's not like being in Virginia where they just canceled
the two Snackdown house shows that were coming to the
state Thanksgiving weekend.

Speaker 3 (57:46):
Yeah, it's all that Norfolk that cancer. What was the
other town of those cancers on Norfolk?

Speaker 12 (57:50):
Or did they cancel Norfolk too? They didn't they cancel
the entire tour because they canceled Roanoak and they canceled Charlottesville.

Speaker 3 (57:57):
I thought it, Yes, they must have just canceled the
whole they said the Virginia, which is.

Speaker 12 (58:02):
Screw these guys know we're going home. But fortunately, fortunately
they're still going to have the SmackDown taping in Richmond.

Speaker 3 (58:09):
Oh, there you go, which I'm.

Speaker 12 (58:11):
Sure we'll draw. Coma vun Wrestling present its big Saturday
night show entitled It's Always Bloody in Philadelphia. But all right,
you may have had a Sandy Callahan against Tommified and uh,
this will shock and there will be an ultra violent
weapons Ultra violent weapons match as the team of Cult
Fiction takes on these suicide Kings. P WG has a

(58:32):
show in Recitita, California on Saturday Night. It is called
the Curse of Gorilla Island. You may have been as
a four way for the vacant p WG title Claudio
cast Golie versus Random Gatson versus Chris Hero versus Joey
Ryan plus the Brisco Brothers against the Cutler Brothers. That's
a big and exciting show there. Then day Toma Beach
on Sunday, TNA Bound Folk Glory, Yes, a huge show.

(58:56):
Rob van Dam returns to the ring against Abyss and
uh the freeway match for the TEENA title Jeff Hardy
versus Ken Anderson versus Kurt Angle Monday Night on HD
NETS which actually is in some homes across the nation.
Now it will be a non title that as ar
A Champion Robert Strong takes on the Fallen Angel Christopher
Daniels and that main e match sow raw from Seattle Live.

(59:17):
As we talked about. We just have no idea what's
gonna happen. I can't tell you that there are no
guest host schedule.

Speaker 3 (59:22):
For this for this Monday, Iron So yeah, you're selling
to have Guinea Powers was originally schedule, but he was pulled.
He was busy.

Speaker 12 (59:31):
He's yeah, he's he's making his way down to the
Mexican League.

Speaker 3 (59:35):
Anyways, you could enjoy the Mexican the Mexico House show tour.
He could oh that smack, he might.

Speaker 4 (59:40):
Well be on that.

Speaker 12 (59:41):
Yes, for all I know, Rinovan has its next upcoming
house shows uh October fifteenth and sixteenth on the way
Champion Robert Strong, I believe will be off in Japan.
So the the featured bouts on October fifteenth and Dayton
it will be the Kings of Wrestling attended the RS
taking titlesan Christopher Daniels and Davey Richards plus Homicide Returns

(01:00:03):
against Kenny King. October sixteenth, Ring of Honor in Chicago,
Ridge Dave Richards versus Christopher Daniels and the Kings of
Wrestling in a non title elimination match against the Brisco Brothers.
Dragon Gate is coming up on I think it's October
twenty ninth, their big Internet pay per view entitled Lushido
Code of the Warrior. It'll be the Hope defending the

(01:00:24):
Freedom Geate title against Shindo and Shima and Yankee Horror
Gucci team up to take on the Moatto and the
Kira Pazzawa of the Kamakazi's and breaking news. Well, actually
it's not really breaking. I think it came out last night.
Breaking news gave Sepolski is putting put together Evolved six,
the Big Evolved Show November twentieth at the Ace Arena

(01:00:45):
in Union City, New Jersey. He has the main event, James,
it'll be Chuck Taylor are taking on the debuting Austin
Ari Aris.

Speaker 3 (01:00:53):
Yep, Austin Aris.

Speaker 12 (01:00:54):
Jumps from Motoways to dragon Gate because rh is cheap. Now, okay,
so there you go, after a lot of them. That's
center for this Wednesday.

Speaker 3 (01:01:02):
Let's go to the seven to four to oh area
code seven four oh. Welcome to the Sherriff. Please say
you name and where you're from.

Speaker 13 (01:01:11):
Chris and I'm from Ohio.

Speaker 3 (01:01:13):
Hey, Chris, what do you have fors fit?

Speaker 1 (01:01:16):
Oh?

Speaker 13 (01:01:16):
First thing I was going to talk about now, Brian
Winn took on my material. I was going to bring
up about all those suggestions for what's change in the WB,
and that was my whole argument against it.

Speaker 3 (01:01:26):
I know, it's the thing.

Speaker 13 (01:01:27):
Everyone's say right now about the time off for the
wrestlers and those sort of things, which your great ideas.
But at the same time, if WV started taking this
off season, or even if they alternate roll on smagnown
are I was gonna say, aren't they just throwing a
lot of money away? Because even if it's not as
highly rated and what have you as it used to be,
it still makes them money each and every week, and
why would they want to throw.

Speaker 3 (01:01:46):
That away for three months out of the year. I
think it comes down to a rest or health issue,
you know. I think that's the main reason to do that.
I think there's two main reasons. One is on the
health issue side, which is they've got to adjust the schedule.
I mean, it's just it's come to the point where
too many guys have health issues after their careers and

(01:02:06):
during their careers. There's I mean, it's just so difficult
to keep up that schedule. It's got to create some
sort of seasonality to either you know, rotating wrestlers on
and off the show or creating just a season. And
I think the TV product as well. I mean, I
think the proudt has gotten to the point where it
feels so old hat and just in an overall sense.

(01:02:29):
You might have a couple of good storylines here and
there that creates some intrigue over a couple of weeks,
and then the product feels kind of stale and hold again.
It's just you've got to make a wide, sweeping change
to the structure of the show. And if you're not
gonna emphasize wins and losses, which you know, deb has
gotten so far away from uh you know, and TNA

(01:02:49):
has dropped there there they're make believe championship rankings. They
have an announce win in like four months now. If
you're gonna get away from the sport aspect and you've
got to create a season to your entertainment aspect, nothing
that those are two things, and you bring up good
points for it, you know, valid points on why would
do we give up that money? Why would why would
USA Network give up that money that that ad revenue

(01:03:11):
of having Raw on their network. I think over time
it's gonna get to the point where that the value
of w's TV prioritic is not gonna be where it
is right now. Even right now with ratings being that uh,
you know, comes to the lowest point in a couple
of years. Uh, looking on the whole for raws TV
ratings in twenty ten, it's gonna get to the point

(01:03:34):
where they don't make some sort of change, the value
of having Raw on your network is not gonna be
where it is right now. And that's where I think
there's gonna be a sense of urgency to make that change,
even if it's gonna be painful, even if you know,
if you gotta uh, even you've gotta draw over the
blood right now to kind of stop the bleeding where
they are right now, they've got to make some sort

(01:03:55):
of wholesale change, even if it hurts right now, it's
gonna hurt. You know, it's gonna hear to have the
talent rosters, you know, to have the time off the
talent roster, that's gonna hurt. You're not gonna have John
Tena availed for for three months out of the year.
But from a wrestler health perspective, that's gonna help in
long term. So I think these are these are long

(01:04:16):
term issues that's gonna take some pain right now. I
think that's a good thing. I think it's a good pain.
It's a good burn, I believe for w But.

Speaker 14 (01:04:30):
I'm Kelly Wells, host of the seven Star podcast, the
new Ongoing Torch show covering the world of New Japan
pro wrestling. We'll drop new episodes as major shows and
noteworthy events dictate and I'm Chris Lensdow join us as
we covered the ever changing landscape of New Japan as
they navigate an era.

Speaker 5 (01:04:48):
We have no lack of talent, but a real need
to create.

Speaker 3 (01:04:51):
Some news staves. You can stream then your seven stop
ONCAUS Now from.

Speaker 4 (01:04:55):
Pro Wrestling Talk.

Speaker 3 (01:05:06):
Brian, what's your reaction? What are your thoughts to what Chris.

Speaker 10 (01:05:09):
Had to say?

Speaker 4 (01:05:11):
You know, there's gotta be some middle ground or some
healthy compromise where you're giving guys time off, but you're
not sacrificing pay per view buys or TV exposure. You know,
if you have a season of Raw that don't that
lasts forty weeks and you take twelve weeks off during
the year, it's pretty easy for fans to get out
of the habit of watching on Monday nights and they

(01:05:34):
end up watching something else or getting out of that habit,
and they don't, you know, don't get started back up
when the new season starts. Plus, you don't have those
twelve weeks where you can build up your pay per view.
So if you're gonna do something, any type of changes
you're gonna have to make is maybe go back to
where you have the squash matches with lesser named guys.
That way, you don't have a guy like Cabal who's

(01:05:54):
got upside potential doing a two or three minute job
on TV where it comes off looking like a lose. Sure,
everybody loses interest in him. Maybe you do it with
some local independent guys do their job and you rotate
a guy like a Cabal in where he gets a
couple of wins and he's spread out over a period
of time that he's not getting injured, or he gets

(01:06:16):
a run, he's pulled back for a few weeks, they
build interest in him or intrigued with him again, and
the guy comes back. You know, I would have been
much more interested in a guy like John Cena if
he took the summer off coming back. He's making his
return at this pay per view, then if he was
doing some sort of an angle that we've seen him,
you know, week on week on TV and pay per

(01:06:38):
view and everything. You're on TV, he's on the Maine vat.
It's going to get old after a while. If you
did something where you broke it up, give him some
time off, it would just be a much better structure
all the way around it. And changes they really do.

Speaker 3 (01:06:50):
Need to make.

Speaker 4 (01:06:51):
I just can't see them doing the radical change that
needs to be done of dropping pay per views or
dropping TV revenue.

Speaker 3 (01:06:58):
Yeah, it's going to Sean Michaels. You know it when
he took time off after WrestleMania and he came back
and obviously that they inserted him to a d X
program last year, which didn't see itim fresh at all.
But you know the concept is the guy takes time
off after WrestleMania, at least a big star, he's not
part of that that that posts WrestleMania lall season and

(01:07:20):
and he comes back for a fresh angle and it
feels unique and special, and you want to see him
on TV and hopefully see him in an angle. It's
gonna lead to a pay per view match. You're wanna
pay that you're going to want to pay money to see. Uh.
So that's you know, that's the ideal situation, which I
think could be achieved with some top stars like John
Steene like you said, Brian, so well, you know, I

(01:07:41):
like you said, Brian, I don't see the radical changes happening.
I believe that they're needed based on where business is
right now, and forced him to elevate some acts like
a like of being O'Brian like a cabal and elevate
those acts. When the top stars are forced to I mean,
I mean not even for it's just when they have
the or they're off time, or they or they you know,

(01:08:03):
kind of go away because there's nothing fresh. So why
water down their attraction value by putting them in a
program that has no value on the show. So I mean,
once they started doing that, I think you're gonna start
to see some of those younger stars be elevated when
W's hand is forced in that in that in that respect,
so I I think that would benefit everyone. I think, Ben,

(01:08:24):
if it's the product of the wrestlers, the health of
the wrestlers, management, creative, creative, having different guys to write
for and forced to write for uh, so it's not
the same old things and the same old storylines that
were used to Chris is another question or fall upon that? Yeah?

Speaker 13 (01:08:41):
Well, first off, following up on that real quickly, I
agree with the wrestlers getting time off, but I don't
think you have to take off necessarily TV time for that,
and that would give.

Speaker 3 (01:08:50):
Them the opportunity to get more exposure to.

Speaker 13 (01:08:53):
Younger guys and guys that don't get it all the
time if they kind of rititated, I think top stars
and what have you in and out throughout the year.
Quickly though, I was wanting to ask you guys because
I actually like to watch SmackDown a lot because traditionally
it does have more wrestling on it than Monday Night Raw. Right,
as we saw in the debut Sci Fi SmackDown was
basically just a glorified Monday Night Raw. Uh Now, I'm hoping.

Speaker 3 (01:09:15):
That was just a one time thing.

Speaker 13 (01:09:17):
Now do you guys, Have you guys heard anything you
know if that's just because it's the premiere or is
this what we can expect out of Smackdowns.

Speaker 9 (01:09:23):
From now on.

Speaker 3 (01:09:25):
Yeah, it's a very good question. It's a conservative as well.

Speaker 4 (01:09:29):
Brian, what's your reaction, Well, I think I first heard
about it during a Cane interview that I read online
that he talked about when they moved to Sci Fi,
there's going to be some changes made with the product
contact It was going to be more similar to what
the Raw was doing. Is they were going to but
that would be a way to increase ratings. Raw I
had better ratings than SmackDown. Therefore it must be a

(01:09:50):
better show, and they were going to go more in
that direction. I'm with the caller here, that's not the
direction I want to see. I want to see more wrestling,
less comedy, less skits, more or the straightforward style presentation.
I think they really need to distance themselves with two
brands rather than just making everything a parative each other
or a copycat type show. You know, you need to

(01:10:11):
have a the variety in here. You need to have
a place where some of these guys, like a cabal
who really would get lost and Raw has a chance
to go to a place like SmackDown and wrestle and
show what he can do inside the ring while he
develops his character. You know, it needs to be a
place where guys can do that and still be on
a national stage. And get that exposure, but it just
has to be different than what you see on Monday nights. Otherwise,

(01:10:34):
you know, why would you watch watch SmackDown if you
can watch this exact same thing on Monday exactly.

Speaker 3 (01:10:40):
And that's my concern with with SmackDown show up, Buddy,
and I think that was probably an anomaly, but also
it was a hint of some changes that will be
on a smaller scale for smack I don't think we're
gonna see straight skits and in sort of silly wrestling
matches and not been strestlaying matches like on Raw. I

(01:11:02):
don't think we're gonna see that every week, but I
think we'll see probably hints of that on SmackDown going forward,
and I don't think it'll be as drastic as Monday's show,
but I think we'll probably see a lot more talking segments,
which we kind of saw hint of that on the
run at the end of the My Network TV run.
Kine had those long promos and Alberto Del Rio had

(01:11:26):
some pretty long promos, and he had the VIP Lounge
and Jack Swagger promos, which aren't bad if they leave
the matches, and that's kind of where the concern was
on Friday Show, which is that I mean Jack Swagger
with in the Eagle mascot did not lead to a match.
It was just Jack Swagger with some silly promo. It

(01:11:47):
just you know, it didn't really lead to anything. It
was just a way to take up TV time as
almost like a variety hour type segment. So I hope
that the emphasis is still on the wrestling, because, like
I said, Brian, it feels like wrong, then why am
I gonna watch? You know, it's not it doesn't feel
as special just to see a bunch of different guys

(01:12:07):
on the show. Uh, the show itself has to feel
special and unique as well, and that's kind of my
concern with SmackDown is that they've got to find a
way to make that show feel unique and must see TV.
And Friday Show certainly was not that. But we'll see
going forward. And I just I just don't want to

(01:12:28):
see a copycat of Raw on Friday nights. Like you said,
we have uh, no one on a hold right now.
See if you want to jump on live cast in
the last three minutes of the show, the number to
call is six four, six, seven, nine eight. I want
to thank Chris for his call and that last call there, Uh,

(01:12:48):
just got another call on the line here. Actually that
was a that was a repeat caller. So uh, Brian,
let's look about some nostalgia news and notes. You've got
a new nostalgia podcast up for Towards v I team
members and also your news and notes and this week's
Towards newsletter that is also available for Torchs VIP members.
Pw Towards dot com slash go VIP for the subscription

(01:13:12):
information if you're not a VIP member, Brian, what do
you have for us this week? In the Towards VIP section?

Speaker 4 (01:13:19):
Oh, about sixty minutes or so talking nostalgia type wress.
When we talked about the PAVOC Broadcasting Museum Hall of
Fame induction that's coming up this weekend. George is going
to be sitting at the table with Baron von Raski,
who is accepting the award for Marty on Neil, longtime
AWA of Broadcasters.

Speaker 3 (01:13:39):
So we discussed that and.

Speaker 4 (01:13:41):
Also we have some information how to order the twenty
ten Hall of Fame George Tragos Lufez Hall of Fame
Induction Ceremony DVD. It's the two disc DVD set, and
I've got all the induction ceremony and the Legends roundtable,
and you know, if you like a guy like Baron
von Rashki, he was the star of the round table.

(01:14:01):
I'll say as just very entertaining in his Baron character,
which is complete opposite of Jim Rashki and very entertaining.
Would highly recommend fans pick that up at the Wrestling
Museum website. And you know, we also talked about nineteen
eighties wrestling picks. I think you and I talked about
those last week a little bit, and George certainly had

(01:14:23):
a little bit different different guys than what I had,
and so his picks were unique, a little different than
what I had. In fact, we only had one guy
that matched up on both our lists, and that was
Jerry Blackwell.

Speaker 3 (01:14:35):
Interesting, yeah, that was part of draft week last week
for Torch Fiati members. Brian and I looked at nineteen seventies, eighties, nineties,
two thousand and today draft list come a top ten
nineties second list, and that's interesting that he had a
lot of different guys that he did. But then you did,
who did he have as his number one in the eighties.

Speaker 4 (01:14:56):
He had Eddie Gilbert actually, which was I thought was
a pretty big surprise. So that very interesting and it's
a lot worse to hear his comments of why he
chose Eddie Gilbert, But he also had guys like Playboy
Buddy Rose on there, and a lot of guys you
know that you wouldn't normally think of, you know, I
probably went more more, a little bit more mainstream, pulled Pokan,
Rick Flair, Steamboa, Go Lawyers. He didn't have any of

(01:15:19):
those guys. He went with more of a sect group
black Jack Mulligan, Eddie Gilbert, as I said, Playboy, Buddy Rose,
and some guys that you know, you would if you
think about it, maybe you put in your top twenty,
top thirty, but a little bit different perspective, you know,
And that's what that's what's always fun about wrestling, is
everybody can have a little different opinion, different perspectives, and

(01:15:40):
different outlook on things.

Speaker 3 (01:15:43):
Very subjective exactly, and that's kind of what we have
in the show, especially talking about ideas to address them
to these downturn and business. There's a lot of different
ways to do it. Go more entertainment, more wrestling, more sports,
more you know, variety, more you know, really stick or
reality TV. So what encourage If you haven't seen your

(01:16:04):
ideas to give me torch dot com and the question
today check that out. Thank you Brian for joining me today.
I want to check back to live cast tomorrow as
we preview the live Impact and thanks again for listening.

Speaker 1 (01:16:22):
You don't have to wait for the way Keller Pro
Wrestling post show to find out what I thought of
Monday Night Raw and SmackDown. Each week, you can check
out my reports that are updated live throughout Raw and
SmackDown at pwtorch dot com. My written report will tell
you what's happening in detail in case you missed the show,
and it will also analyze key segments and give my
random thoughts quips on what I am watching as it airs.

(01:16:45):
So check it out every Monday night and Tuesday night
at pewtorch dot com. That also applies to wwepayperviews. I
cover those live at pw torch dot com with a
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(01:17:07):
TV and pay per view written records.

Speaker 3 (01:17:32):
Thank you for using blog talk radio. Goodbye, all right, Brian,
We're now in the VIP after show portion of the show.
Cover a lot of good topics today on some ideas
and to kind of change and just kind of overhauled
w's business trying to address the current twenty ten downturn

(01:17:52):
and ratings and pay per view buys DNA. Brian, I
mean we should sit here and talk about a lot
of different things at TNNA is not being right and
that they do address. Is there one specific thing that
they can do differently to make them different from you
kind of what we're talking about with SmackDown, How they
need to make SmackDown feel different than Raw so you

(01:18:15):
actually haven't incentive to tune in on Friday nights. What
what could TNA do so they're not they don't come
across w B light and the kind of something they
can do to overhaul or change or really address a
certain aspect of their product. What could they do with
their roster and with the people they have in that
company and the timeslot they have and the TV studio

(01:18:39):
that they film at. What can they do to make
a change or make them different from w B and hopefully,
you know, increase ratings and pay per view buys.

Speaker 4 (01:18:48):
Oh, good question. Now, a lot of things they could
do very subtle changes that WW is not doing anymore,
and they used to do one. A couple of things
actually very well, uh, and that was very receptive the fans.
One was X Division, the major emphasis on X Division
when when Jerry Jarrett was involved in it. That's what
they really built their program around, was having these great

(01:19:09):
matches with guys that were flying around and doing all
kinds of innovative moves, kind of what we saw in
the Nitro era when Eric Bischoff brought in some of
the luchadors and some of the young smaller guys with
the Dean Malenko and Eddie Guerrero who the majority of
wrestling fans in America had never seen before. It was
very innovative. It really helped to catapuld Raw and our

(01:19:30):
excuse me is catapult Nitro and into that ratings war.
That's something they could go back and emphasize is emphasize
championships what they mean, especially the X Division, and have
it mean something right now, it's kind of a JOBB
or division and that's they've they've gotten back to what
WW does, switching the titles at at random and no

(01:19:53):
emphasis on some of the in ring action. It's gone
to more of a you know, this is a this
is our angle. We're on the story and get it
away from wrestling inside the ring a couple other things
they could do. WWE has no emphasis on tag teams.
Why not, you know, center your promotion around ex division
wrestlers and tag teams and that is who you're focusing on.

(01:20:15):
You you'd be completely different than what the WW is doing.

Speaker 3 (01:20:19):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (01:20:19):
You know, you've got two tag teams right now that
people are raving about beer money and MotorCity machine Guns.
Build them to as your cornerstone foundation. There's another tag
team that they have tried to push that have run
into little medical issues with through this, Fagnus and Desmond Wolf.
Maybe you know, if they get those issues ironed out,
then you can push them in the tag team division

(01:20:42):
as well. But those those are a couple ideas to
bring things along. Plus, you know, they were doing the
women's division better than anybody else was, and WWE kind
of caught up with them. While T and A has
has went to more gimmicks, more sillier skits instead of
just putting some women together having a match and drawing

(01:21:02):
big ratings. But those are those are three things, you know,
is you know, make a better emphasis on tank teams
on X Division Women's wrestling, maybe value your championships more
and go long term title reigns, because that's something ww'
is not doing as well. So there's a lot of
things they could try.

Speaker 3 (01:21:21):
Yeah, you mentioned the EX Division and that made me
think back to Reaction on Thursday and Bryan Kendrick was
the voice of reason on the show that just lax
logic or with the product that lacks logic, and Kendrick
during a Reaction interview said, you know what, I want
to win the X Division title because I want a

(01:21:42):
lot of different wrestlers to come challenge me for this title.
I want to wrestle Matt Morgan and I want to
wrestle Samoa Joe. And he said, you know, I want
to see just not just the same style of guys.
I want to see a lot of different style of
wrestlers come. Russell on the X Division. I thought, well,
that's exactly what they need to do, you know, And

(01:22:03):
it's just so funny that it's Kendrick who's being positioned
as sort of a uh, sort of way out there,
an oddball character, but he was sort of the voice
of reasons for something they could do to make TNA
and the products seem different, which is have a variety
of different styles and have a lot of different styles
competing for a title. And Roy emphasized that you know,

(01:22:26):
no weight limit, no limit type deal to the exhibsion
was sort of started on, and you know, sort of
the marketing is like, you know, like total non self
action doesn't make any sense. It just it is just
a couple of words put together. But I think they
would kind of create something unique where the title feels
valued because not just short athletic pipeline wrestlers are competing

(01:22:51):
for it, but other wrestlers who have a you know,
who have had a sip of the teenage title picture
are now coming to compete for ex division title because
it's it's a good title and it has value as meaning.
Like you said, the titles have to mean something for
that to happen. And so those would be two changes
that I would see, which is more wrestlers compege for

(01:23:13):
the Exhivision title and the value of the titles. Uh,
you know, reinforced and rebuilding the value of those championships.
So so yeah, I kind of piggyback off of your
two points there. There's a good point I agree with
you on that DNA on Thursday live Impact down for

(01:23:34):
Glory on Sunday. Uh, we're talking a little bit about
both of these DURN live casts. Is there anything else,
Brian that uh that kind of jumps out at you
that's worth worth talking about. Uh, their kind of potential
for standout matches or potential uh standout story lines that
we'll be talking about either to either positively or negatively

(01:23:54):
one way or the other coming out of these three
out of these you know, these couple of days of
shows coming up.

Speaker 4 (01:24:01):
You know, one thing I think they could do in
addition to that and emphasize what they do well, is
they do house shows probably better than anybody else. You know,
everybody that's been to a TNA house show has raved
about how how things are done there, how well they're run,
how interactive they are, and quite frankly, if they would
do their TV shows in that respect or build up

(01:24:24):
more of that house show presentation, they may they're doing
do something different than the WW just the you know,
the Harlan Globe trotters touring your town once or twice
a year. That'd be a something that they could do
a little bit differently.

Speaker 3 (01:24:37):
You know.

Speaker 4 (01:24:37):
They're they're they're put them pushing the bound for Glory
pay per view for a long time here, trying to
make it seem special, and I think it does more
than their normal pay per views. So they've done a
pretty decent job of that, you know. And and one
other thing that w or UFC does to another extent
that the old school wrestling used to do. You know,

(01:24:59):
when the Crusher would be hustling for AEWA, his hometown
was Milwaukee and so he was protected there. He was
a huge crowd payvot in Milwaukee, and that was pressure.

Speaker 3 (01:25:08):
Country, you know.

Speaker 4 (01:25:09):
And there in UFC has done the same thing with
brock Lesner. They brought him to Minneapolis for his fight
with Heath Pairing and he got over pretty strong there.
They were doing it with GSP in his fight with
Costek coming up in December. They're they're positioning him the
hometown hero is returning to defend his belt. You just
don't see that in either TNA or WW. At this

(01:25:32):
point in fact, when we uh WW goes to Toronto,
it's almost guaranteed that Edge is going to lose in
his hometown, and you know that'd be something that they
could change too. Is a little bit different direction on
positioning their guys as major stars returning to their home territory,
because obviously, you know, when MS comes to Cleveland, there's

(01:25:52):
a lot of people newspaper writers in Cleveland that were
wanting to do a story on him and his rights
to start a.

Speaker 3 (01:26:00):
W Yeah, you're exactly right. That's a good point too.
You Like I said, Edge in Toronto, if they built
that up as a big deal, John Cena when he
comes to Boston, you know, Randy Ort when he comes
to Saint Louis. Those those sorts of things, those are
way to artificially inflate, uh, your business, you know and

(01:26:20):
kind of figure out that hometown guy that you want
to come see. You know, that kind of helped. That
kind of helped Strikeforce when they came to Houston, uh
for the Bobby Lashley fight. Was they on the undercard,
they had a lot of local guys and it sort
of that's how they marketed that show locally, which was
you know, comes see future stars of n m A
who are from you know, from Houston, and then's how

(01:26:41):
they kind of filled out that that that undercard was
they had a lot of guys from the area, uh,
with a lot of fans. I think I think a
lot of the people in attendants were got were friends
and family of ex wrestler and I'm sorry X Fighter
you know x Y x Y and Z Fighter Uh
compete on the under card, so it kind of helped.
It helped put people in the seats, and that's one

(01:27:04):
way to kind of help, uh build up your business
on the house shows. Like you said, TENN does those
house shows pretty well. Uh. And they've got that system
and that formula down pretty well, and and they have
repeat they have repeat attendees. I mean, we've had people
who are sending reports who've been at three house shows
and TNA really doesn't tour that often in certain markets.

(01:27:25):
So that means that that person went to that first
house show, they went to the second one, and they
came back for the third one. They've probably only been
in that market three times, so that I mean, they're
their formula is pretty strong, right, now and there's usually
a hometown interest with you Rick Flair in the Carolinas
or Jeff Harden the Carolinas, or Agstus in Georgia. You

(01:27:48):
know Rob Van Damon in the East w Country, Uh,
Tommy Dreamer and East w Country. So those sort of
things are our way to get that get that house
show business up and that's a pretty good formula that
they have that they can continue to build on. So
that's definitely a good point to bring up.

Speaker 2 (01:28:05):
I'm Chris Maitland. I'm Justin McClellan. We host Wrestling Coast
to Coast, a podcast on independent wrestling. Every week Chris
and I review a different show.

Speaker 7 (01:28:13):
We're talking about important topics from around the indie wrestling world.

Speaker 2 (01:28:16):
Learn about the hot underground stars and the future main eventors.
For anyone else, you can reach us at Torchcoast to
Coast at gmail dot com and me on Blue Sky
at Mind of Maitland. You can reach me at Blue
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or wherever you listen to podcasts. Also stream the latest

(01:28:38):
shows on pwtorch dot com.

Speaker 3 (01:28:43):
Nostalgia. Let's go ahead and grab our our twenty years
ago back issue that was posted last Wednesday had a
lot of interesting items in the back issue which you
and I kind of email back and forth on today
before the live cast. This was from let me go
ahead and pull it up here. I'm gonna scroll around
a little bit here and find it, but give me

(01:29:08):
some time, Give me some time. I should pull I
should have pulled this up ahead of time, but here
we go. This was from twenty years ago. This is
a cover dated October fourth, nineteen ninety. The cover story
looks at the Survivors series lineup and Barry Wyndham's mystery status.
Some other headlines from this issue which were Bruce Mitchell's

(01:29:29):
official debut as a columnist, Doctor dun Steve Williams, Penn's
Davy Meltzer. This is from an aw AWFAUWF show promoted
by Herb crazy Man Abrams. Also Paulkogan and Randy Savage
video reviews, and some some Cactus Jack, David, Tim Martine, Strongbow,

(01:29:50):
Paul ornor Billy Jack Haynes. They were wrestling on the
Marina shows that were reported on and at WWF shows
a around the country around that time, also got some
Japan women's wrestling and Brits Mitchell's column titled old Style
Wrestling gets Old and a reference to Olie Anderson. So, Brian,

(01:30:13):
what kind of jumps out at you from this twenty
years ago issue.

Speaker 4 (01:30:16):
Well, the big thing was your buddy herb Abrams sent
his card there, you had asked. A couple of weeks
ago we talked about her Brave Rooms at length, and
I think at that time we mentioned that he had
a couple of wrestlers that he named Davy Meltzer and
I think Wakee Keller or some form of that name.
He also had a wrestler show up. But in the

(01:30:37):
article that Wade wrote, he talks exclusively about doctor Death
Steve Williams wrestling a job guy who was probably the
worst guy that they had and pending clean. The Meltzers
put it over as he beat Davy Boy Meltzer, I
think it was called her Davy Meltzer and really played

(01:30:58):
it up that this was a big deal, and of
course a lot of the fans in the arena new
Dave Meltzer. As the writer of the Wrestling Observer and
they even had the doctor Deff stuffed some paper in
this wrestler's mouth afterwards, kind of a symbolism of the
dirt sheets and and poor dirt ony. So you know,
if you had that inside knowledge back in that time

(01:31:20):
frame of who David Meltzer was, that it had to
be pretty entertaining. But certainly, as you said, crazy uh
herb Abrams and got a definitely fits here was he
was taking shots above and beyond it at Dave and
Wade even back in that time frame.

Speaker 3 (01:31:38):
Yeah, kind of reading up on on on Abrams and
researching him, and this didn't surprise me. I mean a
guy was a nut. Uh So I didn't didn't smoke
him out and do something similar to this with Cornett,
didn' he did something like that?

Speaker 4 (01:31:54):
He had a did after he got mad at the
Torch with and Bruce. Wade and Bruce when they wrote
about the the gangsters in what they called the Race
Riots at the time, I think they did something very
similar to that, where you know, they had some some
dag team and kind of named them as an offshoot
of that and had them I think get beat. I
think that's how if I remember right, But maybe somebody

(01:32:15):
else remembers are better than I do.

Speaker 3 (01:32:18):
Yeah, they'll probably come up in the I guess probably
the fifteen years ago when we get there, or the
twenty years ago, about five years so yeah, I.

Speaker 4 (01:32:26):
Think that was a little after ninety three, maybe almost
ninety four when that happened, so us to go back
and do a little research.

Speaker 3 (01:32:34):
Yeah, yeah, but yeah, somewhere on the mid nineties. Yeah,
you're right. So the fascinating use of rustling writers and
reporters as talent in the wrestling world. Thanks Herb Abrahams
for that. Well, see what else we have in the
Survivors Aerias lineup. It's kind of fascinating to see a
pay per view in November built up in October. What

(01:32:56):
amazing concept, the concept, Yeah, the covers story. I looked
at these surviber series lineup, sim I'm going pull it
up and we can we'll take dandre at the lineup
for the Survivor series. As I opened up the PDF,
which is of course available for VFP members in the
back issues section, a fascinating look at from twenty ten

(01:33:20):
five years ago that we put up every Wednesday on
Back Issue Wednesday. So as I pulled up the torch
back from twenty years ago.

Speaker 11 (01:33:29):
Here you go.

Speaker 3 (01:33:30):
Here's your lineup right there in a block format on
the cover story of the Survivor series cover story. Here
here we go the lineup for the Neverviews Thanksgiving Evening
pay per view. The event has been released. There will
be six eight man elimination matches as opposed to the
five of last year.

Speaker 8 (01:33:50):
So here we go.

Speaker 3 (01:33:51):
Ok Cogan, Heck Saw, Duggan, Big boss Man and tug
Boat against Earthquake, Gino Bravo, Barbarian and Rick Rude as
your top match, although the top matches include the Ultimate Warrior,
Tornado and the Legion of Doom against The Perfect Team
and Team Team Demolition. Also you've got Dusty rose Heart

(01:34:12):
Foundation at Cocob Wag and Teddy Yancey Rhythm and Blues
and the egg Man, the Infamous egg Man, and also
Jake Roberts, The Rockers and Jimmy Stucca against Rick Martel,
Power and Glory and the Warlord, and of course all
these Survivors in that final matchup in the main event. So, Brian,

(01:34:34):
any of those matchups kinda jump out at you.

Speaker 4 (01:34:36):
Well, when you're reading those names, the first thing I
thought of was, boy, what a what a steroid era
that was.

Speaker 10 (01:34:42):
You have a you have a team of.

Speaker 4 (01:34:44):
Ultimate Warrior, Carrie Van Eric and the World Warriors. That's
that's one team. Uh And I can't remember who you
said they were taking on any Kurt Henning and Demolition.
So obviously you had some major Gas Cup guys on
on that. You had Warlord and Barbarian as part of
a team. And if you look back at that time frame,

(01:35:06):
you had not only huge guys that were on the gas,
but you know, you had Tugboat and you had Earthquake
because who I was trying to think of those are
just big natural guys, but they're just huge guys and
was just an era where the little guys, smaller man
definitely not emphasized. It was a big man's era back
in that time frame, and that was right before the

(01:35:29):
big Vince McMahon steroid scandal would break in nineteen ninety
two and change a lot of the face of wrestling.
So it's that's what really jumps out at me, is
just what a big man's era that was, and you know,
it's just certainly at a different time than what we
saw just two to three years later.

Speaker 3 (01:35:47):
Yeah, I think every matchup had some sort of big
man involved, like you said you had. You had boss
Man and Tugboat against Earthquake and Barbarian. You had Warrior
in Texas, Tornado in Lesion to do in one match,
you've got let's see a team and another matchup. I
don't mean I think I skipped that one was Nikolai

(01:36:07):
Vaalkov and Tino Santino, Tino Santana and the Bushwalkers against
Sergeant Slaughter or an Express and a Keem. Uh So
you got a Keem as your big man. Then you've
got rhythm, rhythm and blues. You've got which you're not
really a big man group, but you know you've got
Dust two roads in that matchup, you've got power and Glory,

(01:36:28):
You've got the Warlord. I mean, those those are classic.
You know when you think WWF nineteen nineties, late eighth,
nineteen eighties era, nineteen ninety you know sort of that
nineteen eighty four, nineteen ninety, nineteen ninety one era. This, Yeah,
this lineup pretty much captures it right here for Survivor
series in nineteen nineties. So yeah, when when you when

(01:36:50):
you run down that lineup, that's obviously what kind of
jumps out, so good points there. NWA at the time was, well,
what do we have the NWA we've talked about We're
talked about the Steiners last week and in this issue
I got said Vicious, You've got the Midnight Express, you
got the Steiners all involved in in some top stories

(01:37:13):
Rick Flair, So again you got some big men there.
You've got who did I just named, said Vicious? And
in the Twins, I guess, I guess who was the
one I just named? But yeah, you got said Vicious.
Has the big guys too, skyscrapers at that time, Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:37:33):
This they would have a nineteen ninety October of course,
would be the pay per view, the Halloween having pay
per view, and that was headlined by Sting and the
Blacks or Nogan Sting against said Vicious and Barry Windham
would play a pretty major role in the finish of
that match, and they we want to save that finish
for for later on. But that was a timeframe with

(01:37:54):
ww IS promoting the pay per view that would not
run in opposition to WWF. They were going in October
with the Halloween AVOC. I think it was just the
second year they ever had done at eighty nine was
the first year, and then they were leaving in November
alone for the Thanksgiving and Traditional Survivor series like you
mentioned already, so the WCW DIN should be in full

(01:38:17):
promotion mode by this point, trying to put together some matches.
Sting was battling the Black Scorpion and would take on
Sid Vicious, who was part of the Four Horsemen in
this timeframe, and it ended up being Rick Flair, Arn
Anderson battling Doom for the NWAT eight team titles later
that month.

Speaker 3 (01:38:35):
There you go. Yeah, good story there.

Speaker 1 (01:38:39):
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Speaker 3 (01:39:20):
Well, one final note on the nostalgia front. I'd wait, Brian,
you have an interview with bug zoom Off coming up.
You want to go and talk talk about that interview?

Speaker 4 (01:39:28):
Well, it's actually an old one that we had done
back in two thousand and nine. And yeah, I just
had posted an interview he had done recently. So he
had done one and there's a recap of it and
that was posted along with the old interview that was
done if you wanted to listen to to buck zoom

(01:39:49):
Off about a year year and a half ago.

Speaker 3 (01:39:52):
Excellent, And that's that in your your VIP blog.

Speaker 4 (01:39:56):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that was posted to say inside that
blog and there's links to it. It's two part interviews,
so that both of them are posted there.

Speaker 3 (01:40:05):
Very good. Yeah, I think we have. We've touched up
pretty much everything today. Good good, twenty years ago back
issue to discuss, so of course we'll have another one
to discuss and next week's next next Wednesday's vat the
after show after the live cast, but anything else we
need to touch on before we wrap up today.

Speaker 4 (01:40:26):
Well, well, get the primetime debut of Lessner and Velasquaz tonight,
soll a few of Sea fans I want to watch that.
I think it starts at ten o'clock, right after The
Ultimate Fighter. It's October months, so they're showing a lot
of Rocks matches, like all of his UFC pay per
view matches, as well as of the prime time and

(01:40:46):
All Access special with Lesner.

Speaker 3 (01:40:49):
Yeah, and by some sheer coincidence, I'm sure WV has
Roctober month on Classics on Demand, So I'm sure that
was just a great coincidence. I'm sure, I'm but it
is kind of interesting because they are offering some uh
some free content on on on w w's kind of
classics on demand on comcasts. They have the the w

(01:41:13):
W Freeview I believe they're calling it, and they've got
some some brock Lester, they've got some Medie Guerrero, they've
got some Hogan and Piper in the nineteen eighties. They've
got some old w CW and and w W RAW programming.
We might have to do a live cast VP after
show on some of that free content. I believe you
have comcasts, Brian, have you been able to check out

(01:41:34):
whether you have that that freeview, that preview program.

Speaker 4 (01:41:38):
I have non checked if that's available or not. I'll
have to do that for next time.

Speaker 3 (01:41:43):
Yeah, we'll maybe we'll have to kind of do a
live cast over a match or something or do an
update on that. So yeah, I can kind of I'll
pull up some of the let me just make sure
it's still there. I discussed this on comcasts the other day.

Speaker 4 (01:41:59):
I think it's good for entire month.

Speaker 3 (01:42:01):
Yeah, I believe it was in the entire month, and
let me make sure if I can find they're right.
There's a great, great audio here. Here we go down
to be freeview. They've got free Goldberg, which I believe
is the Goldberg Hulkogeant match in the Georgia dumb They've
got Eddie Guerrero and Brock Lester, which I believe is
no way out. Uh oh four. I believe They've got

(01:42:25):
nineteen seventies. This is the legend of this isn't gonna
be this is for free. They've got the Legends of
Ruskin roundtable from the nineteen seventies and also the top
African American wrestling stars in history. They've got Brock Lesser
so brock Lester and Big Show, he's got one of
that match those matchups MSG eighty five with Tito Santina

(01:42:47):
and Ronny Piper, n w A eighty seven with Rick
Flair and Dusty Rhodes, NIGHTRO eight, NIRO ninety seven with
Hulk Cog and Rick Flair, or TNA Impact in twenty ten.
They've also got Raw ninety seven with Rock and Stone Cold,
and they've got the Resting Classic with Rainy Savage and
Hult Cogan. So we might have to do an audio

(01:43:09):
off update on one of these a couple of these
shows and kind of get the backstory and the context
on those on those matchups. So Brian, you have to
find out if you have that.

Speaker 4 (01:43:19):
That would be a lot of fun, and we'll have
to do that for next time.

Speaker 3 (01:43:22):
There you go. Maybe, yeah, we might just do a
freeview update and maybe pick a couple of matchups and
just kind of break it down on maybe the context
of the matches or the context of the storylines at
the time. So good stuff, Brian. Like, like Brian said,
check out brock Lester on Spike TV tonight. I'm sure

(01:43:44):
there'll be a plug for TNA Impact tomorrow night. So
there's another incentive to kind of check out tonight's October
programming on Spike TV. So, Brian, any final thought before
I wrap it up today.

Speaker 4 (01:43:57):
That's true for the Twins, They're coming on here and
not too distant future a couple of hours.

Speaker 3 (01:44:01):
There you go. There, you got the Phillies up for
nothing in the sixth inning on the Reds and Twins
Yankees as your main event tonight, so I'm sure that'll
be yeah. Well, well, it's a good baseball to watch
today and especially tonight with Twins Yankees. So, uh, Brian,
what's your what's your series prediction? Give us a prediction.

Speaker 4 (01:44:21):
I'm gonna say street to one, Twins pay three games
over one over the over the Yankees.

Speaker 3 (01:44:27):
There you go where we marked it down at No,
it's on the record.

Speaker 4 (01:44:32):
All right, sounds a good?

Speaker 3 (01:44:34):
All right, Bran, thanks again, Thanks everyone for listening to
the live cast today. Check back on Thursday and Friday.
I'll be hosting again, uh leading up to the Down
from Glory pay per view for Bryan Hoops. This is Torch.
Justis editor James Caldwell signing off.

Speaker 1 (01:45:07):
Invite you to email the show with feedback or questions
or comments. That email address is Wadekeller Podcast at petewtorch
dot com. That's Wadekeller Podcast at PW toorch dot com.
Also welcome your feedback on Twitter. You can follow us
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That's at PW Torch and at the Wade Keller.

Speaker 11 (01:45:29):
Searching for more great pro wrestling talk, then join me
Jason Powell host them the three weekly Pro Wrestling Boom Podcast.
Each week you'll hear the latest news and analysis from
me and my team at Pro Wrestling dot need along
with other pro wrestling media members. Plus, the Pro Wrestling
Boom Podcast features long form interviews with notable names in
the pro wrestling industry. Subscribe and iTunes, Stitcher, Downcast, and

(01:45:51):
all your favorite secondary apps, or visit us directly at
PW boom dot com. Once again, that's PW boom dot com.

Speaker 1 (01:46:00):
Thanks for listening to our podcast. Did you know we
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Create a tab or bookmark make it a daily stop.
Visit us throughout the day every day to keep up
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Speaker 7 (01:46:24):
Need an extra dose of positivity in your wrestling podcasts,
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Paradise at Pterbeo Torch VIP as we mask on the
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(01:46:45):
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such as the We Love Liger series celebrating the glorious
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We love variety and you can expect lots of it
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(01:47:08):
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Speaker 1 (01:47:28):
One way that you can help us sustain our schedule
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Speaker 15 (01:48:05):
In twenty twelve, NXT transitioned into the developmental system and
ultimately the brand you see today. On the Torch VIP
podcast NXT eight years Back, we'll be taking a weekly
look at this page in NXT's early history.

Speaker 6 (01:48:20):
Join Kelly Wells and me Tom Stout from PWT Talks
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Speaker 1 (01:48:34):
A PW Torch VIP membership doesn't just give you add
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(01:48:56):
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There's no larger, longer spanning pro wrestling podcast library than
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(01:49:19):
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