15 YRS AGO: John Cena-Nexus, Jericho's future, TNA's handling of Jeff Hardy's issues, origins of ring ropes

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 2 (01:36):
Now.

Speaker 3 (01:37):
Pw Torch and Spreaker bring you the Wade Keller Pro
Wrestling Podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:46):
Fifteen years ago. This week on our live call in show,
James Caldwell hosted with current pwd Torch columnist Greg Parks
to discuss with live callers the Nexus Group with Wade
Barrett in the future of the group and where John
Cena fits in after a potential next split. Also John
Cena as Kanye West, The Slammys, why no one was
discussing the Slammis on Raw, the Raw GM situation, TNA's

(02:09):
handling of Jeff Hardy at final Resolution, Chris Jericho's future,
the TNA build for Jeff Jarrett, the origins of ring
Ropes and more, and then in the previously VIP exclusive
after show portion of the show, they talked about Lay
Cool being allowed back on Raw, which brung a discussion
on logicals and storyline gaps in pro wrestling, plus an
in depth discussion of the final resolution, and a vigorous

(02:31):
debate on how to we evaluate and rate a TNA
pay per view, especially when the company's product seems to
be irrelevant in the big picture. So let's get to it.
This originally livestream don December ninth, twenty ten, and it
is Today's Wade Keller Progressing Podcast fifteen years ago flashback
for December twelfth, twenty twenty five.

Speaker 2 (02:49):
Here we go.

Speaker 3 (02:53):
You're listening to the p tow Torch live cast, and
this is p tow Torch Assistant editor James Coldwell hosting
today for Thursday, December of the ninth, twenty ten. Joined
today Buying Fork's calling this Greg Parks. Greg, how are
you today?

Speaker 2 (03:07):
Not bad? James?

Speaker 3 (03:08):
How about you doing good? We just finished up a
text chat on we post on peterb Torch dot com
about half hour ago, and now we get to the
verbal chat today on the live cast. Not a not
a very busy twenty four forty hour period in terms
of news.

Speaker 2 (03:29):
No one got fired today.

Speaker 3 (03:30):
James, No, no one. Let's double check this. I just
went to w dot com like ten minutes ago. But
let's just for the sake of verification, let's go to
w dot com. No one has been fired. But there's
a WILBILLI Jam story on the where are they now?
Feature on their website, So that's interesting. But yes, no

(03:54):
one has been fired today. That's a good that's a
good thing. Was it last week? MVP of his released
was that last Oh yeah, man, it's been like two
or three weeks, I don't know.

Speaker 4 (04:07):
Not.

Speaker 2 (04:08):
Winter time moves more slowly in winter.

Speaker 3 (04:12):
Time, it is more slowest. So does that mean that
it would seem like it happened longer ago?

Speaker 5 (04:17):
Is that right?

Speaker 2 (04:18):
Yeah? Because he said it felt like two three weeks.

Speaker 3 (04:20):
All right, yeah, maybe it is winter. Maybe you're great? Yeah,
good Greg? Yeah, there you go. Yeah, So, no one
has been released yet today, but I believe there have
been a couple of T and A releases which I
think I think we'll get a little of look at
on tonight's impact. So what we'll take phone calls on

(04:41):
tonight's impact, as well as items in the news. Greg,
you and I talked a lot about W's TV products
in our weekly chat that we just posted on gibtorch
dot com. Specifically, next is I'm really intrigued by this
where they're going with it. I believe that W has
really rushed the John Cena firing storyline. I just unless

(05:03):
they find a way to stretch it out. And this
is sort of a tease that it's going to end
early with the ultimatum from Hotngua the baron on raw
this week, unless there's some some way they stretched out.
I think they really rushed what they could have done
with Sina. But to me, the more intriguing thing is
Nexus and the future of that group. And you know,
I talk a lot about that in our chat. Your

(05:25):
overall impression of where they're going with Nexus, and I mean,
how likely is we're gonna see a split group? They
have multiple T shirts now, they have multiple leaders, They
have a lot of guys who are on the sidelines
or who have been cut from the group. You know,
Tarbor and David Young, not David Young, Daring Young. You wow,

(05:47):
So Greg what's your impression of where this thing is
going with Nexus and what do we see on next
week's Raw that's a three hour planning edition of Raw.

Speaker 2 (05:56):
Well, I wouldn't be surprised to see it split into
two groups. I don't know if there's enough personality with
those guys to you know, fully function as two different groups.
Plus we don't even know what the whole point of
the formation of the first Nexus group was, which they
haven't really addressed lately, which makes me he's not planning

(06:18):
on address hands anytime soon. So that's that's kind of frustrating.
But you know, I kind of joked in our chat
that it was going to be the nWo Black and
White against the nWo Red and Black. But it's just
I don't know. I think the writers or WWE thinks
that they the audience has such a short attention span

(06:42):
and they're they're catering to the younger audience, which do
have shorter attention spans, that they can't spread things out
as they would over a longer period of time. And
I mean, if you watch episodic television on you know,
the half hour comedies or even our long dramas, a
lot of times what you see in the episode doesn't
really matter because it's all back to square one next week.

(07:04):
Everything's pretty much the same, especially in comedies and stuff
like that, which unfortunately WWE fancies themselves every once in
a while being a comedy show as well. So I
feel like WWE has done that a lot lately, where
things will change during the episode or over the course
of a few weeks, but by the end everything's back
to normal. And I feel like we're going to be
getting now with John Cena rejoining WWE RAW in an

(07:27):
official capacity, sooner rather than later. And you know, while
we would like to see this kind of storyline stretched
out over weeks and months, perhaps WWE and whatever marketing
research they've done, it's concluded that their prime target audience
doesn't feel that way, or you know, doesn't respond to
that kind of television pattern.

Speaker 3 (07:50):
Yeah, it's like their audience wants to see Sena, you know,
or whoever the top star would be Triple H or
you know, rad Asterio on Smack or whoever it might be.
Appeals to that core audience that they want to see
the star. You know, we talked about the Office, the
sort of a parallel storyline the office of the storyline
were Dwight one of the main characters, not the main character,

(08:11):
but the main character was sort of go fired in
the storyline a couple of seasons ago, and they followed
him around and eventually brought him back. So there's a
little bit different look at him, similar to.

Speaker 2 (08:22):
What could he fairy? That only lasted an episode two,
but he got fired and then and then came back,
so that wasn't something that was long term either, but
you know, he could be in you know, when Jim
went to Stanford, uh, that was about a half a
season there, and then he came back to the Donner
Mestlin stuff. That was a little different where it was
a little bit longer where he was done. But eventually

(08:43):
what happened, he came back.

Speaker 3 (08:44):
It's like blay, yeah, yeah, I don't think anyone was,
you know, thinking that, oh, scene is gonna be gone.

Speaker 6 (08:50):
You know.

Speaker 3 (08:51):
I think that we all expected him to come back,
so we were okay with that aspect of the storyline
and the journey. I just think that there was so
many more opportunities to I mean, well, I mean we're
talking like it's for it's a for sure thing, which
it seems like that he won't be qute unquote rehired
on Monday. But I think there are so many different things,
not even the whole you know, mass Superstar and uh

(09:12):
you know Juan Sina and then shows up and not
even that, so many other things that could have done
outside of the ring. You know they could I mean, Greg,
I mean, are you gonna be out there tailgating on
uh you got the the SmackDown TV taman coming to Baffall.
Are you gonna tailgate? You know? No, you know, but
those are things that could have.

Speaker 2 (09:33):
I don't even I didn't even tailigate when I go
to football games. When I can when I go to wrestling.

Speaker 3 (09:39):
It was hilarious when he said that on RAW. I said, wait, wait,
it's like a tailgating in a wrestling show. That's not Wow,
nobody does that.

Speaker 2 (09:46):
Maybe that's w w as suddle way of trying to
get fans to do that.

Speaker 3 (09:51):
Oh to like to get in there early, and well,
I mean, wouldn't that be That's that's a great uh
photo op and video.

Speaker 2 (10:00):
You know, we could have other fans at white football fans,
you know, getting their hours early, delegating with other fans.

Speaker 6 (10:05):
Outside before the event.

Speaker 2 (10:06):
That's something WWE would eat up with a spoon. You
kidding me? So maybe that was They're not so subtle, uh,
you know, push to the audience and say, hey, why
don't you try this? You know that'd be fun.

Speaker 1 (10:20):
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Speaker 3 (11:17):
I could see. I mean, another's arenas. I really want
to talk about this seriously, this isn't going to happen.
But I know that arenas have restriction in the tail game.
But that'd be funny if like, where's Where's raw next week?
I don't even know where it is, let's see, I
think it's a New Orleans. So wouldn't it be funny

(11:37):
if people actually showed up to the New Orleans Arena
and try to tailgate, you know, and the arena said, no,
what are you doing? You can't do that? Well, John
Cena said it was gonna be under tailgate. I mean,
they could they do that? And I don't even know
where stretching is out, but it's fascinating that Sina said that.
It's just I don't even know why he said that.
But so I don't know where I was, but I

(12:00):
think that the gist is that there are things that
they could have done, you know, like that sort of
fun things, not even you know, Chris Jericho protesting. That's
sort of the helish thing. But and that's the sort
of thing about this, not this greg is that I
feel like a little bit of this is seen to
be in a cry baby. You know. It's sort of like, well,
I was screwed, even though I read the stipulation. So
I'm gonna make your lives a living hell just so

(12:21):
that you feel as bad as I do. You know,
they haven't presented it heelishly, but it feels like something
that could be heelish, kind of like he's crying about
it and he's wading about. Obviously, the audience just wants
to see him. They don't care how they get him
back on TV, that core audience. But that's does come
across heelish at all to you.

Speaker 2 (12:42):
In the last couple of weeks. Not really, but I
was surprised that I'm this pass sweet for ought to
hear him say that, Oh, he hasn't miss things while
he's been out, you know, he hasn't. He hasn't this
being enough, Like, what aren't you trying to get back
into this company? How don't you say that? I mean,
I don't know if it's like reverse psychology or what,
but it was there's a bit odd something to say.

Speaker 3 (13:04):
I guess that the whole promo is strange, you know,
it's uh, I don't know what it was, just little
things like that the tailgating thing, and I mean so
much of it has already washed over me, but it
felt weird, you know, it just felt weird that he
you know, that he even got mic time. I mean,
I don't see him Punk kind of you know, calls

(13:24):
this out on an equal basis. Now, why is this
guy allowed in mic time or video package? Or Papa
was guardrail it.

Speaker 2 (13:30):
I'm sure he was. I'm wondering how long it takes
till WW shuts him up and says not talking about that.
So the same thing about.

Speaker 3 (13:38):
It that point that uh yeah, all of a sudden
he plays dumb, you know, or I mean it's like,
you know, Jerry Lawler will come back with with uh uh,
he had some comeback line and then just kind of
just to kind of diffuse see him Punk's argument, and
it's it's what he should be saying. You know, if
he's the heel and he's on commentary, then he should
be you know, questioning why the baby face allowed to

(13:59):
do certain things. And the play by play announcer or
in this case, story law or they face analysts is
supposed to have been the baby face. So it's it's
good anster. It's just that it seeing a punk is
exposing this silliness of the writing, and that's sort of
the dstue that I have with it.

Speaker 2 (14:15):
But so do you do you think they're allowing him
to point this out because it will come back to
the storyline plant like someone from within his letting Seena
into the building or letting him roll around even without
having a contract.

Speaker 3 (14:30):
I don't know that you'll come back to Okay, this
is why they did it. I think they tried to
explain it. Was it last week when when Sina said that, oh,
security doesn't like you and so, uhcause you attacked them
the first week and that's why they let me do
this thing. To me, that was sort of there, Okay,
we're going to give you a nod as to why
he's allowed to do these things and be around the building,

(14:53):
you know, even though Colic, while he's a fan. I
think that was their only nod to that aspect. I
would be I would be surprised because they came back
and said that someone from within was sort of allowing
him to do this. You know, unless it's a m
a man thing where he comes back and you know,
he wakes up from the coma and and he says no, no,
I need John seen him back on my TV. You know,
I don't know if that happens, but I think the

(15:14):
only time they're going to address that was what they
did last week, which was security doesn't like Nexus. You
attacked them, so then they're kind of getting back at him,
at Ed Wade Barry. That's all I see from that aspect, which, like, again, Greg,
you're not talking about this in our chat. There's so
many of these overarching sort of questions that you know,
we don't really ask because we don't know the WB

(15:36):
will ever answered, you know, whether it was the raw
gm A, NeXT's higher power? Why is he didn't allow
to do what he's doing? Do we even ask these questions?
It doesn't feel like Godby is even going to even
attempt to answer them, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (15:48):
Greg, Yeah, we've given P and A a hard time
over the past few years and doing that kind of thing,
and you know, it's equal opportunity time because that wis
doing it here.

Speaker 6 (16:00):
I'm not onely that, but.

Speaker 2 (16:00):
As you mentioned in our chat to Roger, em angles
very similar to that in that you know, it's almost
it's it's not even speculated anymore. I say with the
GM is it's just taken as you know, it's the
somebody on the computer and that's it, and we don't
really even care to find out. I mean, it was
the last time I was talking about was Chris Jericho.
It's saying he was going to expose to Roggim and

(16:23):
nothing ever came of that. So I don't know if
plans fell through with something there or what, or if
they were just heaven Jericho blows smoke. But you know,
I don't know how many fans asked that question on
a weekly basis. You know, when the GM gets a ruling,
people wonder if I wonder who that Roger em is?
And I think the more time passes, the less people
are going to ask that question. And perhaps WWE thinks

(16:43):
they can get away with, you know, not worrying about
answering that question because well by now it's four months
later and no one cares. So why should we go
to the other to go to the lengths of answering
that question, which I think is stupid. But you know,
I don't know. That might be their not their plan,
but that might be what ends up happening.

Speaker 3 (17:01):
Yeah, No, I think you're right, you know, until it
comes to a point where they think they have someone
who would make a difference in business and they reveal
that person as a GM. I don't think they're gonna
drop any incident you could you get you could have
something with, you know, because like you said, Chris Jericho
was the last one to try to expose the identity
and then Rainy Morton punted him and that kind of

(17:23):
wrote off Jericho from TV. So I mean you could
have a tie in where Orton is in uh, you
know Orton's and cahoots or Orton is uh friendly with
the GM uh and try to explain all the logic
holes there and explain how you know, Orton was instructed
to take out of Jericho and shut him up, and
the GM sit an edge over the SmackDown because he
was causing trouble too, So that there's a lot of

(17:46):
there's a lot of different ways you could explain it
without trying to address the logic, which I don't think
they'll ever be able to explain. But like you said,
I don't think there are any rush to get to
that point. I mean they like him as a prop
it's something as the audience reacts to I mean, when
CM punk got up there, you got a baby face
pop for kind of mocking Michael Cole and the whole

(18:08):
rod GM deal. So they I think they think it's over.
And if they don't need to tinker with it, and
they'll if they need to get to the point of
exposing or identifying who it is, that's something that'll cross
that bridge.

Speaker 5 (18:19):
I'll probably a while from now.

Speaker 3 (18:21):
I don't see it happening in time soon. Let's go
ahead and take some phone calls here on the live cast.
If you listen to us live and you'll join us
on the air on blogtok radio. The number to call
six four six seven two one nine eight two eight
six four six seven two one nine eight two eight.
Let's go to our first phone call, which it says

(18:42):
Ian out of Tennessee. Ian, how are you today? Hey?

Speaker 6 (18:45):
Good?

Speaker 3 (18:45):
How you guys doing doing good?

Speaker 2 (18:47):
What do you have for U?

Speaker 3 (18:47):
Sean?

Speaker 7 (18:49):
Well, I was thinking about this whole scene and Next ascendion,
how it's being rushed. It almost seems like it was
a plan B because they were hitting around it. There
was a reason why the next has attacked Undertaker and
then he gets injured and nothing said about that, and

(19:10):
all of a sudden, he's got this this fire angle,
and I was just kind of curious just to think
that they will revisit that or.

Speaker 3 (19:19):
What Yeah, good question, Greg, what's your take?

Speaker 2 (19:23):
Well, you know, this past week in the Torch column,
actually this upcoming week was just released online last night,
I wrote about the Undertaker's possibilities for WrestleMania as far
as opponents go, and one of the ones I suggested
was wayde Barrett. He's got the size that you know
can mash up well with the Undertaker, and he's got
the storyline already right there with Nexa's helping Caine defeat

(19:47):
the Undertaker and the Buried Alive match, and that's really
never been a referenced and I don't think it really
needs to be yet, because you know, there's no point
in building this huge angle with the the Taker there
to sell it. So I think what Taker comes back,
it could become more of an issue, especially if they
want to freshen an excess up or you know, wait,
Barrett even then send him over to SmackDown, and that

(20:07):
could lead to the Undertaker wage Barrett match. You know,
when Barret gets done with Sina, Taker could be next
on the list, and they could do some build up
closer to WrestleMania without Taker being there or you know,
being physically active. I don't know what his fad it's
going to be as far as he he'll be able
to be on the shows leading up to WrestleMania, or

(20:31):
how much he's gonna be able to help hype his
match at WrestleMania, and that's something that's going to have
to be considered when when you're thinking about who he's
gonna face. So I think Barrett against Taker is probably
one of the top five possible matches for Taker at Mania.
A lot of it is simply because they helped pain
It win the very live match and we haven't heard

(20:52):
much about it or reasoning from it since, so, you know,
I think it would make sense for that to be
addressed at some point, But again with take Her Out,
I don't see if there's any rush to address it
right now.

Speaker 1 (21:07):
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Speaker 3 (21:40):
Yeah, because I go back to right after the Survivors series,
we'll o'tongue Ben Bear. I mean, they're already kind of
planting seeds for dissension and o'tongue was going to reveal
why Barrett helped Kine and now it's kind of teas
and they haven't revisited that, and that coincides with the
Undertaker go on the Shelf. Perhaps when he does come back,

(22:02):
they will revisit that, and at that point we might
have two Nexus factions. You could even have one on
wrong on one on one on SmackDown. I mean, Greg,
we took about that in our chat as well. You know,
what do you see I mean if we have a
you know, an a team and a beat or you know,
be in to ce Nexus teams. Do you either they
would keep them on the same brand or do you

(22:22):
think they would have one on raw and one on Spective.

Speaker 2 (22:25):
I think they would have to keep them on the
same brand for a while, because I mean, that's that
the built in storylineers they have. If you send Nexus
either group to smack all of a sudden, they're you know,
kind of on an island out there was nothing really
to do. There's so already made fuge or anythink you're
just kind of sending them there for fresh faces and SmackDown.
Did recently caught a lot of guys on their roster,

(22:47):
perhaps in preparation to house one of the Nexus groups,
which which is a possibility, But I think you have
to first do a feud with them on the same brand.
I mean that just makes sense to me. Of course,
out of that feud, you're going to have a losing group,
and you know you don't want you don't want them
to appear to be the loser of the group, because

(23:08):
if they all go as a group to smack Down,
you know, that's that's gonna make them look weak and
they're not gonna be as effective unless they do something
big in their debut on SmackDown, you know, and say
they're mad about what happened on or on they're gonna
take over SmackDown now or something like that. But will
they be able to buy them? Will the fans be
able to buy them? Depending on the outcome of the

(23:30):
Nexus versus Nexus feud. I mean, this is all speculation
of it, but because this might not even happen, but
I think it's worth thinking about. If Nexus does split,
where do they go? I mean, like I said, it's
already made feud to have some feud with each other.
It makes sense. That's because that's why they split after all,
to presumably feud. But after that, I don't think either

(23:53):
group would have that much longer term effect and wants
to freshen them up by sending them to a different brand.

Speaker 3 (23:58):
Yeah, yeah, good points there and at back do a
fall up on that? Another question?

Speaker 7 (24:03):
Yeah, I had one more question. I asked this yesterday
on the East Coast cast that I figured i'd get
your opinions on it. You know, with the whole situation
with Jeff Hardy and uh, you know, they were going
to pull him and have a replacement match, and they
went to the extent that's not only keep him in
the match, but they kept a belt on him.

Speaker 2 (24:23):
I mean, what does that.

Speaker 7 (24:23):
Say about TNA too? I mean, and really, if you're
Matt Morgan, how how bad does that make you look
that they're more willing to keep the belt on Jeff Hardy,
you can't show up the work's over rather than you.

Speaker 3 (24:37):
I mean to me, I think that with TNA, I
think that they weren't ready to put the belt on
Morgan just because they kind of rushed him out there
as an alternative to Hardy. You know, so I'm starting
to Hardy Tod Anderson. So I don't think they wanted
to just go ahead and take the belt off, you know,

(24:59):
let's send it to the replace match. I still I
don't think they would have put the belt on Morgan,
even if they did a replacement match, which I think
was gonna be what Jared and Morgan and uh and Anderson.
You know, I don't know who they would have put
the belt on and out of those three, but I
don't think it would have been Morgan. I think that
because Morgan was presented as a replacement for Anderson, that

(25:19):
they would have held that off. I mean, that's that's
sort of my speculation on that they kind of would
have held off on no matter what condition Hardy showed
up in. I think they would have held off on it.
But to get to your point on Hardy's condition, Yeah,
to me. To me, it's I mean, the whole thing
with Hardy is that I think it sends a bad
message to the locker room. And I kind of wrote
about this h stand and Alex Riley and the messages

(25:42):
sends the locker room that Riley got a DUI and
he's still he's still very prominent, uh has a very
prominent role on TV and on RAW right now. And
to me, that's a that's a bad precedent to set
for your locker room in my opinion, especially guy was
Ry like Riley, who has no tenure, no experience outside
of the last couple of months on TV. He just

(26:04):
happens to be in the right place the right time.
He's kind of like the the the Lance Cade in
that Chris Jericho Shawn Michael's program. So Riley's been allowed
to kind of get y on the dui charge in
terms of how he's not been punished as well as
far as we know, Jeff Hardy. You know, at some
point you've got to send a message to the locker

(26:24):
room that this behavior won't be tolerated if we're not
gonna reward someone who shows up to work not in
a condition to perform. And the last I heard, you know,
I haven't heard this confirmed, but I believe his court
appearance yesterday was continued. Yet again, that's my understanding of it,
and I have to work to confirm them. That's what

(26:45):
I saw a couple of reports on that. So Greg,
your take on, I guess the situation with Hardy and
doesn't send a bad message and set a poor precedent
for the locker room. In your take on whether they
don't have confidence in Morgan if they didn't put a
belt on him after the condition Hardy was at on Sunday.

Speaker 2 (27:08):
They spent all that money on that new belt for
a draft party, you think they want to take it
off after a while. I'm not a champion with it,
so that's you know, I don't know if that's factor
in the decision. Probably not, but it's something to think about. Yeah,
I don't think Morgan's ready. I'm warming up to him
more and more of the baby face because for the
longest time I saw him at the heel and his

(27:30):
past babyface turns just haven't worked for me. But I'm
buying them more and more of the face now, you know.
Keeping the belt on Hardy here just when you were
talking about it, James reminded me of the situation when
I believe Kurt Angle had all those issues, legal issues
pending with what was dealing with Rock of Con wasn't
that Yeah, wasn't he champion around that time? And we

(27:52):
were all flabbergases that TNA didn't make a statement and
take the belt off Kurt Angle. Uh, you know, and
instead of having this guy could be facing serious legal issues,
you know, be your standard bearer, and they kept the
title on them because I remember having a similar conversation
about that and they did, so. I don't really know
if you didn't be surprised by Jeff Hardy keeping the

(28:13):
belt here.

Speaker 3 (28:15):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (28:16):
It's just it's one of those things that really really
shows you the difference between w W E and and
t n A. You know, a lot of the lot
of the people who've left w W GUN CNA like
the more laid back atmosphere, and TNA don't like the
corporate stuffiness the w W brings. But on the other end,
you don't have issues like this popping up on a

(28:37):
regular basis. And you know, Jeff hardy Is was for
the most part on good behavior in w W, aside
from his wellness policy violations. So it's it's just it's
just reeks of UH a company that is not on
the level of w W as far as letting their

(28:57):
talent know what is acceptable behavior and.

Speaker 5 (29:02):
What is not.

Speaker 2 (29:03):
Saying what you will about WWE, but they run a
pretty professional ship compared to TNA.

Speaker 3 (29:10):
Yeah, yeah, I mean it is. It's it's very clear.
The word that Bruce and I Bruce Mitchell that and
I talked to and kind of used on Monday's live
cast is accountability. You know, it's a lack of accountability
in all aspects of management. And I even talk to
people on on Tuesday. I talk to people in TNA

(29:33):
on Tuesday after Monday's TV taping. I mean, you look
at the stretch of TV that that impact I'm sorry,
miss sort of the stretch of TV that that TNA
is recording this week. They were on they had a
TV tape on Monday, Tuesday day off yesterday they have
TV teaving on Thursday and Friday. I think they're taping
like five, maybe even six episodes of Impact to end

(29:55):
this year and to begin next year leading the Genesis.
And I mean just everyone that I talked to made
it sound like there is such a lack of organization,
like the production team. I'm posted this item in my
Tuesday news story kind of recapping Monday TV taping, is
that people were saying the production team was so disorganized that,

(30:16):
you know, it was sort of like not just one person,
I mean just the overall you know, the camera operators,
the lighting, the technicians, the uh, the producer. Everyone was
so disorganized because nobody knew what was being taped for
what and who was supposed to record what, and people
were kind of standing around waiting for instructions, and it

(30:38):
was just it was a lack of accountability. And it
filters down from the top to the bottom. It's it
goes from management, it goes all the way down to
the camera operator, goes all the way down to the
sound guys sitting off in the corner, you know. So
it's it's a lack of accountability from top to bottom.
And W's had this too with their with their TV taping. Tom.
I mean, it's a stressful thing. You know, it's trying

(30:58):
to record two hour show. You know, there's a lot
of changes the writers make. Last second McMahon gets into
a mood he doesn't like something. Uh, you know, the
talent and the writers aren't agreeing on something. You know,
stuff like that happens. But so they throw throw TNA
in here when they're trying to do you know, two
times four times. You know, they're trying to do about
ten or twelve hours of TV over a five day period. Uh,

(31:22):
there's just a lack of accountability. And if people aren't organized,
and talent's frustrated and and they get yelled out, you know.
So it's it's a lack of accountability from top to
bottom of that company. And that's why I write about
this on a regular basis. It's not just creative. It's management,
it's marketing, it's it's pr it's it's production. They need

(31:43):
an overhaul, it's got to start over. It's not just creative.
It's not just Vince Russom. And that's what we see.
That's the the main issue that we see. But it's
just a lack of accountability, and it starts with the management,
and it starts with issues like with Jeff Hardy and
that's what we saw this week. We've seen this with
Jeff Party in the past, and TNA seen Scott Hall

(32:04):
this year. It's you know, the nasty boys. We've seen
it a lot of different aspects and we see what
cheer shots the head with brother Ray. So, Greg, you
know thoughts to add on to that aspect of it.

Speaker 2 (32:17):
No, I mean you hit, you hit the nail on
the head. It's so it's so stressful of an environment
when you're doing that kind of work. And I mean
you have a live crowd to work in front of,
and you know, guys don't know their roles. And that
was happening, you know, towards the end of Nitro as well,
when you had guys that you know, didn't know who
to report to. And I know Chris Jericho talked a
lot about it in this book. Things were constantly changing. Uh,

(32:41):
And that's that's the situation. And there's another comparison between
w c W and t NA.

Speaker 3 (32:46):
Yeah, yeah, great points there, Greg. Uh. You know, we
appreciate your call face for calling in as always good
to hear from you.

Speaker 8 (32:55):
Searching for more great pro wrestling talk and join me
Jason Powell hosting different wee weekly Pro Wrestling Boom Podcast.
Each week, you'll hear the latest news and analysis from
me and my team at pro wrestling dot Net, along
with other pro wrestling media members.

Speaker 6 (33:09):
Plus.

Speaker 8 (33:09):
The Pro Wrestling Boom Podcast features long form interviews with
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and all your favorite secondary apps, or visit us directly
at PW boom dot com. Once again, that's pw boom
dot com.

Speaker 3 (33:27):
Let's go to our next phone call from the four
one five ere code four one five. Welcome to the show.
Please say to day and where you're from?

Speaker 9 (33:35):
What's going on guys with johnth differm San Francisco.

Speaker 3 (33:37):
Hey, Joco, let's go on today.

Speaker 9 (33:40):
Not much, not much, just about the whole TNA tape
in what is the what is their deal with uh,
you know, five os in no tape in like five episodes.

Speaker 3 (33:50):
Or whatever, and said January.

Speaker 9 (33:53):
Is it just because they want to, you know, spend
the last two weeks at Christmas and New Year's Eve
together or whatever? What's going on?

Speaker 3 (34:00):
Yeah? I think that I think there's three reasons. One is,
like you said, the Christmas break, they want to give it.
I mean, if you think about it, well you know
what to say the tenth, so they would have see
the eighth or safe nine, So the seventh would have
been Tuesday. Usually did Monday and tuesdays, so they would
have had to come back on I believe the twentieth
and the twenty first to do that, you know, if

(34:21):
they kind of rotated it bi weekly as they usually do.
So I think we wanted to get the everyone though,
the crew, the wrestlers, management, you know, kind of Christmas
week off. So that's the reason one. I think the
other reason is cost cutting and trying to stay at
the costs. That's a lot of travel expenses to bring
everybody back, especially on Christmas Week. I mean that's an

(34:41):
expensive travel week, you know, you know, fight rates go
up and hotel rates go up, especially Orlando. A lot
of people go to Orlando for Christmas just kind of
have a different vacation, you know, Christmas with the trunks
whatever for skipping Christmas. So there's that issue of travel
expenses and having to fly everyone back on Christmas Week

(35:02):
and hotel and all that sort of thing. And then
I think that the January schedule is super packed. I
don't know that TNA has a break after after the
Genesis Pay for review. In that month, They've got house
shows lined up domestically until the middle of the month,
and they have the European tour they do every January

(35:24):
the end of January, so that's you know, five or
six dates. I think it's just a combination of giving
the guy's time off, helping them recharge their batteries the
last couple of weeks of December before a really busy
stretch in January. So I think there's your three main reasons, Jonathan.
And I think it's made a lot more stressful than
it needs to be with you know, if you count

(35:46):
the pay per view and the Abu Dhabi trip's that's
a lot of stress on everyone in that company. So
I think everyone will welcome three or four week break
right now. But I think that's that's your main reason, Jonathan.
Is a question follow up?

Speaker 9 (36:01):
Yeah, just two quick ones.

Speaker 1 (36:02):
Uh.

Speaker 9 (36:04):
There was one statement, real quick, hardy they they need
to do something because I don't want to, you know,
turn on the TV and watch the news and there's
an accident in you know, Orlando, Florida involved in Jeff Hardy,
one of the biggest former w W wrestlers, and you
know he broke his neck or something like that, or

(36:24):
or he died because he was he came under the
influence again and you know TNA was like, oh, it's
okay whatever, as long as he could draw, which I
don't see no one drawing in the impact zone.

Speaker 2 (36:34):
But that's another story.

Speaker 9 (36:36):
But just now the two quick ones. Uh, when was
the first uh? When was the ring ropes introduced into
an actual wrestling match? I know it probably was like
in the very beginning of wrestling, but like who was it?

Speaker 10 (36:49):
Like?

Speaker 9 (36:49):
Uh, occupants that that was in the ring and like
actually use the ropes as a weapon. Yeah, and uh
and number two is uh going at the w W
uh is like with the Slammis and everything? Have they
announced the awards? And who do you guys think is
gonna take home Wrestler of the Year?

Speaker 3 (37:11):
Good question? Uh? Yeah, good question on that. Greg. Let's
let's just go and start with the Slammings and then
we'll work back talking about Hardy. The thing with the
Slammings this year is that they've put it I can't
remember what what weekend in December. They did it last year,
but it seems like they just randomly throw it out

(37:32):
there this year and there really isn't any anticipation or
or wow, I can't wait to see this, And there
never really is this like wow factor of the Slammings,
but usually there's sort of a I kind of look
forward to who's gonna who They're gonna name Russ for
the year and uh match the year and that sort
of thing. But I don't feel like there's any anticipation

(37:53):
for the show at all. It just feels a show.
So your your thoughts. Greg On on no O Broll
Slamming Show on Monday, And who do you think they're
gonna give roughs from the year two?

Speaker 2 (38:03):
Yeah, you know, they're just in the middle or the
tail under the string of three hour raws. So I
think that's one of the reasons it doesn't really feel
that special. They just an a three hour raw, and
I think a lot of people are gonna delive Detroit
gets it afterevery this sits for two other three hour
raws in the last four weeks. Wow, this is I mean,

(38:24):
Superstar of the Year.

Speaker 3 (38:27):
I don't even know I have like no idea.

Speaker 2 (38:30):
That's tough. I mean, Randy Orton's got to be in
the Ryan John Cena obviously, Well yeah, but so can
you accept the order if he's fired? You know that's
the funny thing.

Speaker 3 (38:44):
Maybe that's really getting back on TV next week?

Speaker 2 (38:47):
Well yeah, true, So maybe they'll crash the awards or.

Speaker 3 (38:50):
Something like that.

Speaker 2 (38:51):
I don't know that they haven't. It's not like that
kind of even listen to any nominees. I don't think.
So that's.

Speaker 3 (39:01):
It's it's tough.

Speaker 2 (39:01):
I don't know. It's it's it's a gimmick toward So
it's I don't know, you know, how to even think
of it as a winner. It's like it's like asking, Okay,
who do you think should go on in the Hall
of Fame this year? Well, it doesn't matter what I think.
It's whatever w W E thinks. You know. It's not
like I can look back and I'll objectively say, well,
this person's gonna win because he had the better year.

(39:24):
So that's not how it works.

Speaker 3 (39:26):
Right, exactly right. It is a gimmick award. And they
haven't even announced nominees that I'm aware of. They barely
announced the categories it's so you know the rest of
the year, OMG Moment of the Year match the Year.
I mean, Greg, well, the video preview had CN fuck
Raymonds serio is you know, the sort of the flashing

(39:47):
images of matches the year or sort of the flashing
images of things that could qualify for each award they had.
I think Punk and ray of the hair matches their
potential matches the year. I mean, I would say Michael
is Undertaker, but I don't think the some you know,
ground swell of you know, W's fans who are on
their Twitter and Facebook telling w B. I don't Well, first,

(40:08):
I don't know if there's any ground swell for the
Slamming Words show at all. But I don't think there's
any ground swell for Michael's Taker as the match of
the Year. I mean, I just I think, sort of
over the test of time, match number one just is
so much stronger than match number two. Uh, in that
that two match series.

Speaker 2 (40:24):
So, Greg, you don't have the Taker, You don't really
have Taker on Michael later accept anyline.

Speaker 3 (40:30):
Yeah, you're right, you know, unless that's the way to
get Michael's back on TV. It was the first time
Tasmania which I don't think they would blow that at
all on a Slammy show with no hype. But I
know you will be the tribute to the troops taping
on on this Saturday, because he's scheduled for that for
who knows, maybe he travels. Just that just that would
be such a waste of an opportunity. But Greg, what

(40:52):
is the match of the year in w B from
from their perspective? What do you think that they would
be thinking as their match of the year. I mean,
it's your one. I really can't think of another one,
be said Michael.

Speaker 2 (41:04):
There's not one that really stands out to me. Yeah,
I don't know. You know, so many the TAVE reviews,
especially the last few months has been kind of lackluster,
so it's hard to you know, say, I mean, the
Rumble was a good match, but I don't know if
they would consider that, you know, very high on the

(41:25):
list of possibilities. So I'm not really sure if it's
you know.

Speaker 3 (41:33):
It could even it could be some of the TLC match,
you know, one of the two TLC matches in July,
that July pay per view, uh money the Bank matches, Yeah,
my mon, they're the same almost money in the bank. Yeah,
one of the two money in the bank matches.

Speaker 2 (41:52):
Well, I mean the other thing that Roll Rumble was
going for and I believe didn't this year there Edge
came back and wanted Yeah.

Speaker 3 (42:01):
Yeah, it's just come back and win. So that could be.

Speaker 2 (42:03):
I mean, if he accepts the war, I mean, that's
something you know, and you can do a deal where
he plugs his match with Kine at TLC coming up.
So I mean, that's that's the way they could go
there and kind of work at it because you know
it's gonna be a SmackDown, Raw combined show, so he'll
be there to whatever award. So that's a possibility.

Speaker 3 (42:22):
Yeah, it is. It is. So I think we've given
us more thought than than anyone else has yet. You know,
I don't know that anybody's even talking about the Slammys.
It's just it feels like a show.

Speaker 2 (42:34):
It's just another three hour at this point.

Speaker 1 (42:37):
Yeah, anytime you're watching ww E Raw or SmackDown or
aw Dynamite in particular, send us an email if you've
got thoughts on the show or a topic you want
us to address, or a question for us. Wade Keller
Podcast at PW torch dot com, Wade Keller Podcast at
petew torch dot com. If there's anything else going on

(42:58):
in pro wrestling that you want us to address our
main podcast during our mailbank segments, that same email applies
Wade Keller Podcast at PW torch dot com. We invite
that interaction. Let us know what you think of what
we're saying, and let us know what you want us
to talk about and ask us specific questions Wade Keller
Podcast at PW torch dot com.

Speaker 3 (43:19):
And the other aspect of what Jonathan was asking about was,
you know Jeff Hardy, and you know, whether we're gonna
see some news story on him, you know, injuring himself
or someone else. And you know at TV taping, I
don't know that Hardy has a reputation for negligence, you know,
even if he's in a an altered state. And you know,
obviously they they sell like T and A put him

(43:40):
out there in an inebriated state. I mean, obviously there
was another They gave Hi an opportunity to sober up,
and they're still talking about a contingency plan for a
couple of different different matches to replace Hardy and Morgan.
But they gave him an opportunity to sober up, and
I think that's typically what happens when wrestlers is that

(44:01):
w big. You know, they're not going to put someone
out there who is, you know, out of their mind,
not even there. I don't think w R teen would
go that far in saying like, oh, we got to
get them out there because the fans expect to see
certain wrestlers. So they gave Hardy an opportunity to sober up.
And he doesn't have a reputation for being negligent. I mean,

(44:22):
it's that that's sort of what the crazy thing is
is that he's so good at what he does. I mean,
he has a reputation for forgetting spots, you know, but
as far as being a performer, he's a pretty good
performer in terms of uh, just being able to be
Jeff Hardy, whether a facer or now a heel that
he's pretty safe to work with. That's the reputation that

(44:43):
he has. So I mean, Greg, get your thoughts on
whether we would ever see something like Hardy goes out
there and he's negligent, and you know what would happen
at that point, especially with TNA.

Speaker 2 (44:55):
I don't know that TNA would ever try to put
themselves in that position, because that would be the death
noel for that company. They don't have the kind of
money to sustain whatever kind of a lawsuit that would
follow or whatever kind of negative press that would follow,
So I think they'd be very careful about that.

Speaker 3 (45:10):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (45:11):
And the fact that they were going to discussing contingency plans,
I think it means they're quite serious and pulling Jeff
Hardy if they needed to. And obviously I don't know
whose call it was to keep him on the show,
but obviously they felt that, you know, he would be
safe out there, and you know, that's that's their call,

(45:32):
because it's it's it's going to be on them if
something happens.

Speaker 3 (45:36):
Yeah, you know, you're exactly right. So I guess they
thought he's sobered up and up and he's safe and
he could go. So it's Jeff Party. There you go.
You're listening to the P to B Torts live cast.
Is this P to B Torts. It's just editor James
Caldwell hosting Today with Towards Calls, Greg Parks, Greg Covers
SmackDown every Friday night here on Pbtorch dot com if

(45:59):
you're not by your computer run er Friday night. If
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(46:42):
to pdb torch dot com slash go vip to access
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(47:04):
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and color to that. So recommend that as well as
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look forward to that this coming weekend. Correct, let's go
back to some more phone calls.

Speaker 2 (47:25):
One one thing answer quick before we go to the
next call. I believe the last color mentioned something about
ropes in the rain and yeah, I don't want to
you know, bresh this off because you know it's it's
an intriguing question.

Speaker 3 (47:40):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (47:41):
That goes way back. I don't know if you know
the answer, Dames, that goes way back before I would
have any idea of of how that started or how
it began.

Speaker 6 (47:52):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (47:52):
That would be more of a question for probably Brian
than the Staleia specialists here at the Tory Tour. Bruce,
they may know that, I know, I don't, James, if
you have any insight on it, I would.

Speaker 3 (48:04):
Assume that it H. I guess we're kind of I mean, obviously,
wrestling's roots are in the carnival era, and yeah, it
definitely has a question for Brian, and Brian will be
on the live cast tomorrow with Wade. So if you're
your nostalgic questions, if you're listening to us live or
on iTunes after this Faccon, call calling on Friday, or
send us an email off TV Towards Live Cast at

(48:26):
gmail dot com uh to ask for to ask Brian
on tomorrow's show for nostalgia. But you know, kind of
when when wrestlings started to go out of the carnival
era toward live shows that were promoted, that they might
have already kind of started that, Ara, And I don't
want to just say this for sure because I don't
know for sure, but I'm sure part of it was

(48:48):
just to keep spectators out of the ring, to keep
them out and to kind of separate spectators from the wrestlers,
the shooters in the ring or on the stage, whatever
it was. So that would be my guess, And that
could be the nineteen teams, that could be the twenties,
that could be the eighteen hundreds. I'm not sure exactly,

(49:08):
but I know boxing kind of started that trying to separate,
you know, sort of a ring to have a separate
ring and then have a method to keep spectators out
of the ring, and that was eighteen hundreds. So that's
my that's my uneducated, educated guess, and I don't have
the specifics on that. So maybe I'll be trying to

(49:29):
email Brian on that and then see if he has
an answer for that from for tomorrow's live cast and
you can give you that answer, Jonathan. So appreciate hear
from me. Jonathan. Good calls always. Let's go to the
seven to two four area code seven two four. Thanks
for holdings, Please stay turned in and where you're from.

Speaker 11 (49:46):
Hey James, said Greg Miss and David Pittsburgh.

Speaker 3 (49:49):
Hey Dave, what's going on? I don't know too much.

Speaker 11 (49:53):
I had a I guess a statement or whatever. I
feel like Wrong's been getting better lately, but at the
same time, I feel like smackdowns and complete shambles. The
mid card is okay, but there's like there's literally like
no main eventors. I mean on on SmackDown Ray mystereo.

(50:14):
It seems like he's on every other week. Edge is,
you know, running in circles with Kine, who I think
is just about runners course as champion Alberto Del Rio.
Isn't it that that peak yet? Do you see I
know it was talked about a few months ago, but
do you see a possibility of them ending the brand

(50:37):
extension and unifying the world and WWE titles headed towards WrestleMania,
Because as it looks right now, I mean, unless they
bring in a big name, I can't see them coming
up with a Russellmania card that's gonna pack a lot
of thunder. And I just wanted to make your thoughts
on that.

Speaker 3 (50:58):
Yeah, good questions. Great kind of the state of SmackDown
from your eyes covered that show every week and we
really haven't heard much talk about unification. Uh sort of
idea that was floating around a couple of months ago
that I haven't really heard much about that since then, Greg,
do something that's the possibility and then you're gonna stay
the SmackDown thoughts.

Speaker 2 (51:20):
It could be, but again, like you said, we haven't
heard about it in a while. It could be. You know,
Vince book Man's whim, you may not want to do
it this week, so you know, go back next week
and there might be different news out on that. You know,
I stick to what I've always thought, despite the the
lack of depths right now, the SmackDown aser and you're right,

(51:41):
the main event seen on SmackDown is has a dearth
of talent for sure. It's the Edge, Kane and you
know already once in a while, Del Rio, once in
a while. But you know it's certainly not strong, especially
when you consider the you know, Kings might doing the
best prolo work of his career, but his entering work
is still you know, getting getting worse every match. Of
course he's aging. Uh, you know at an Edge has

(52:04):
just hit. A character has been really off the rail
since the Vicky Guerrero storyline. So you've got those who
in the main events undertake they're going to shelve. You
got those two on the main events. Uh, and that's
not a strong main event billing, you know, with christ
Jericho out there, with Raymisterio not really in the main

(52:25):
events scene. And they've had some trusty mid card guys
get the boot. You know, Matt Hardy has gone, m
VP has gone. Those are two guys who have been
back down staples in the mid card for for a while.
You know, MVP has been und raw as well, but
you know, he made his name really on SmackDown. Uh,

(52:46):
so you know, combine that with the roster cuts and
hopefully that's the signal that we're gonna get some new
talent and we're gonna get some things changed around. And
you know, Jason Powell's page two buzz this week, there's
there's rumplings that that smack Down Leader writer Michael Hayes's
job might not be safe. So I mean there's a
centive for him to turn things around and put on

(53:07):
stronger shows every week. So we may be seeing that
in the coming weeks. We'll see.

Speaker 1 (53:14):
If you missed it earlier. Just a reminder, we're running
these often, take advantage of it now. It is a
limited time offer take nine dollars off a VIP subscription
a one month, three month, or one year sub It
in ninety nine cents. The coupon code is n o
V twenty twenty five as in November n o V
twenty twenty five, and that takes nine dollars off when

(53:37):
you check out on our sign up form pw Torch
dot com slash Go vi Ip gives you full details
on membership benefits and links to our signup form.

Speaker 3 (53:47):
Yeah, you mentioned Chris jerichogreg and you know, Jericho's out
touring and he's got He's got FOSI commitments and days.
He's kind of doing that sort of take time away
and do what I want to do. The thing is
gonna book coming out of February. We haven't heard much
about whether Jericho is coming back or if you resigned

(54:08):
quietly and they're kind of waiting from the return or
find a way to have him return. What do you
think he's down there? Says w right now in terms
of do you see him coming back anytime soon? They
would they would hold him off if at all, you know,
until early twenty eleven, late twenty eleven. Is he not
coming back in the near future at all? What do

(54:28):
you think I.

Speaker 2 (54:30):
Think his status is WW will take him when he
decides he wants to come back. Yeah, it's a situation
where Jericho wants his time off. He's in a place
where he can take it right now. I mean, he's
an impact guy who can afford to do that, and
there's very few guys that that can't afford to do that.

(54:51):
He's one of them. He's he's very you know, articulate,
he does he makes good personal appearances for w W.
He reflects well on the company. So you know, whenever
they can have him back to be doing that and
making the rounds for them, maybe around to wrestle many
a time when they do a lot of media, they

(55:12):
probably love to have him back because he's such a
great ambassador for the business in addition to being one
of the best performers still going entering in on the mic.
He's a guy who's all around talent, and you know
he knows that and he could take advantage of that
by taking time off when he wants to and knows
that he'll be in demand when it's time to come back.

Speaker 3 (55:34):
Yep, Yeah, good points. They're Greg day vack you and
he needs a fault on that or another question or comments.
You know what.

Speaker 11 (55:40):
I'm good, guys, I gotta get to a damis deployment.
Thanks for taking my call.

Speaker 3 (55:44):
All right, good luck. Yeah, hopefully it's not too bad. Yeah,
Jerke was interesting. You know, obviously W to ME needs
him just in terms of the lack of talent depth
they have him. And he mentioned that they cleaned out
smackdowns mid Guard. I mean you kind of drove about

(56:05):
in our chat. You know who they gonna put on
Superstars with m V p out and they I mean
not out gone and Masters, you know, kind of fills
his slot there on the pitch on Superstars. And you've
got Tyler Rex who doesn't have a character that I
can identify. So you've got you've got some talent and
depth issues and uh, don't be They're not gonna tell
Jericho they need him, but they need him, and it's

(56:28):
just a matter of when it's on his timetable. I think,
I mean, he's kind of earned that right with his
longevity and the performances that he's put in lately. So
that's that's an interesting story of following twenty eleven is
when he comes back, if at all. So we'll see
a good call, Dave. Let's go to the nine to one,
eerie code nine to one, Oh, welcome to the show.

(56:48):
Please say to your name and where you're from.

Speaker 6 (56:51):
It's dishambled. Hey, how y'all going doing good?

Speaker 3 (56:54):
Handle? Thanks for holding What do you have? First thing?

Speaker 2 (56:56):
Okay?

Speaker 6 (56:57):
Yes, okay, what's up to think about this?

Speaker 3 (56:59):
Right here?

Speaker 6 (57:00):
Okay, I think that you know, McMahon used to always,
you know, make it seem like, you know that Jeff
jar ain't nothing but a mid carter, the animal or whatever.
You see, Like when Jeff jarreted creates CNA, he made
sure anything involved in the word me card was gonna
be incorporated into his organization because of the contint reminder
of how McMahon viewed him. And now all get them

(57:23):
did Carter and I'm never a man eventor which? I think?

Speaker 3 (57:26):
So you're saying that that Jarrett was trying to refute
the mid cart label and is that kind of your
your question is or just eliminating the mid carter?

Speaker 6 (57:37):
Yes, I think that's that's the question right there. You
know he pretty much avoiding anything involved and do with
me a card?

Speaker 3 (57:43):
Yeah, I mean T and A is T and A
was built to make Jeff Jared a mainiventure. You know
that that's the foundation of T and A was Let's
make Jeff jardah star and prove vincent man rom and
and prove everybody else wrong who thought he was just
a main event. I'm sorry, just a mid carter that's
in TNA abanity promotion and has origins and it has
roots abanity promotion for Jeff Jarrett. You know, he views

(58:09):
himself as someone who was wronged, uh, you know, not
given an opportunity to be a top star. Uh. TNA
is an outlet to be a top star. And I
think long term, if you look at the entire issue
of this company that's been through their detriment, is built
a company around Jeff jarartd So, uh great, what are

(58:31):
your thoughts on, you know, the Jeff Jerart in TNA,
the issue and sort of the company being dosed around
him and trying to refuse that mid card label.

Speaker 2 (58:42):
Yeah, that's certainly true now that he was pushing himself
to the point where fans were rejecting him. I mean
in Nashville where he you know, was kind of build
himself from. So you know that that's got to really
tell you something. And you know, I don't see him

(59:03):
making the same push you know, he was. He didn't
want to be branded a mid carter for life. He
put himself in the main events in TNA. But when
you look back when he was running things, if he
was doing that to anyone else, and he kind of
take a look and I don't really think that he
was unfairly putting anyone in the mid card who deserves
a big main event push. But certainly, like you said,

(59:27):
it's almost a vanity promotion for Jeff, he and his
father created it for so Jeff had similar rest letter
w WE went out of business and WWE did not
pick him up. And it's definitely a good thing for
the business, regardless of the purpose and how it reflected
what where Jeff Cherrett saw himself in the business, and

(59:48):
it certainly kept him in the spotlight. But yeah, it's
interesting because you know, I think that is something that
is true that that Jeff new Vince saw him as
a mid cork talent. And there's a lot of guys
who Vince over the years has seen it as a
mid cort talent. I mean, Matt Hardy is one of them.
Christian is another guy who a lot of people get

(01:00:10):
behind him, very popular, and you know, Vince has just
sees him as a mid carter for life startists. So
I mean it's a good thing that all these guys
are starting their promotions, all promotions as well.

Speaker 3 (01:00:22):
Yeah, it's like de tried and true tradition is if
you start a promotion, you make yourself the top star,
because that's why you need yourself now. That's why it's
so important to have checks and balances in that aspect,
which TMA hasn't always had in their company history, especially
when Cherriott had control of sort of the bookie and

(01:00:42):
the storylines. That's why the n WA title match is
always a main event when some of those exhibition matches
probably should have been the payper bemine events. And you know,
four or five years ago. So Hannibal, good call. Appreciate
that you holding in your question.

Speaker 2 (01:00:55):
There.

Speaker 3 (01:00:55):
We're gonna get to some more phone calls. We had
people just calling right away in the last five minutes,
so we'll try to wrap this fire through the callers
we have on hold. Let's go to these seven seven eight.
Eric Goes seven said eight, welcome to the show. Please
says your name man, where you're from.

Speaker 12 (01:01:10):
Hey, it's Jason for Vancouver.

Speaker 3 (01:01:12):
Hey, Jason gon to hear from me. Let's go out
to say a.

Speaker 12 (01:01:15):
Good two for you guys too. I just I was
just coming to work and I just had a question
that I was listening to you last night's podcast and
just hit me. I want to ask you guys about
Rick Flair. I started watching Rustling in about eighty nine
and up here we didn't really get WCW and Vancouver
like we used to get the world Wide show that
used to come on at like midnight on Sundays. Yeah,

(01:01:36):
And I remember the first the first time I watched
Flair ever fight was he was fighting at l Jigante
and that was it on the first time.

Speaker 3 (01:01:44):
I watched him.

Speaker 12 (01:01:45):
And then I remember watching when he came to WWF.
I liked him when he was the you know What's
fit when he was sleeping with Elizabeth and the whole
story there and then and then and then I'll obviously
I haven't watched him ever since, but it's.

Speaker 3 (01:01:57):
Like I always found it funny what I never got
to watch him.

Speaker 12 (01:01:59):
In the eighties when guys could said that he was
the best russ in the world. I always thought to
this day, I just thought he was so overrated as
a as a rosser, because even.

Speaker 3 (01:02:08):
Guys like I always thought that.

Speaker 12 (01:02:09):
Brett Hart, Sewn, Michaels, Angle, Ben Wile We're all way
better russles than Flair was. And I never understood why
Flair was just considered the Wayne Gretzky of wrestling.

Speaker 3 (01:02:21):
Well, if your first impression of him was a giant
Gonzales match. That's that's a tough way to be introduced
to Flair, and that was that was not a good.

Speaker 2 (01:02:32):
Time for me and everything. And this is a prime
example right here.

Speaker 3 (01:02:38):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, Jason, you're a little bit a
little bit late to the party on Flair. If that
was your first impression, I mean, obviously that's that that
was a bad time in WCW.

Speaker 5 (01:02:49):
But you know, if you go, I.

Speaker 3 (01:02:51):
Mean, if you watch the eighty nine series and this
would always watch on a regular basis if I'm kind
of needing to watch some good wrestling, is eighty nine
with Flair and Steamboat, and you'll have a great appreciation
for Flair the wrestler. But yeah, Jason, your scarredful liance
and that was your first impression of Flair and steam
Sorry Flair in Gonzales, but I mean, Flair was a

(01:03:13):
great wrestler, you know, go back to the seventies, the eighties,
like the matches in the nineties and two thousands. It's
just if that was your first impression yet it probably
ruined it for you. But if you get your hands
on some some late seventies and eighties it's it's it's
hard to find it. But if you find that, especially

(01:03:33):
his work with Steamboat in the eighties and another top
Stars in the mid Atlantic and in Charlotte territories, you'll
you'll have an appreciation for Flair the wrestler. It's just
that that's a bad first impression, so apologies on that
aspect of Flayer's career.

Speaker 13 (01:03:54):
I'm Chris Maitland and I'm Justin McClellan.

Speaker 14 (01:03:57):
We ho from wrestling coast to coast, where we scar
the wrestling scene to find the best wrestling from the
smallest places.

Speaker 13 (01:04:03):
There are thousands of matches happening every week, so Wrestling
coast to coast is here to discover the men and
women who could be big time stars in a few years.

Speaker 14 (01:04:10):
There are plenty of podcasts to voters, to ww and
aw but what's happening in the armories and gymnasium's local
wrestling hotspots around the country.

Speaker 13 (01:04:18):
We can't wait to help you find the true hidden
gems of the wrestling world. Plus, you can hear Chris
complain about bad referees.

Speaker 14 (01:04:24):
And justin bemoaning dogpile fins.

Speaker 13 (01:04:26):
Don't forget my feudal search to see a blue Thunderbomb
win a match.

Speaker 14 (01:04:30):
How can I like? The name says we cover the
hottest independent promotions from around the country, such as Prestige Action,
West Coast Pro, Revolver, and Beyond Wrestling.

Speaker 13 (01:04:39):
Actually, Chris, I think we stick pretty much to wrestling.

Speaker 14 (01:04:42):
No, I mean Beyond Wrestling Out of Worcester, oh right.
Our show's part of the PW Torch Daily Cast lineup
and typically drops on Thursdays. Search PW Torch in your
podcast app, as subscribed to the PW Torch Daily Cast,
or stream our shows directly from pw torch dot com.
Find full details on the PW Torch Daily Cast lineup
at PW torchdailycast dot com.

Speaker 3 (01:05:03):
H We're we're gonna keep going through some more calls
because we have people on the hold. So Jason, could
hear from you. We'll hope to hear back from you tomorrow.
Let's go to the two oh three area code two
o three, Welcome the show.

Speaker 2 (01:05:18):
A quick question or comment, Yeah, what's going on? This
is Mark out of Connecticut.

Speaker 3 (01:05:23):
Hey, Marcus, I got a question.

Speaker 2 (01:05:24):
I know Sean Radikin normally covered the uh, you know,
Ring of Honor shows and stuff like that. Is anyone gonna,
like ever buy an internet pay per view of the
Torch and do live coverage, you know after show like
a T n A or w w E pay per view.

Speaker 3 (01:05:40):
Well we do.

Speaker 6 (01:05:41):
We do a lot.

Speaker 3 (01:05:43):
On peterb torch dot com. I've covered him and then
Sewan's covered them. We haven't been an audio update, so
that's the that's the suggestion. Uh, maybe Sean and I
will do an audio update after Final Battle. Uh. But yeah,
I think we've had a report on every ring of
on our internet pay per view and I mean this,
this one's on de Cimberateam. We haven't even talked about
that much in the live cast. But uh, you know,

(01:06:04):
maybe we'll get a special guest on you know, I'll
try to arrange that. But uh, that that peper view
is shipping up to be a really special pay per view. Uh,
let's just post them on report on this week's r
h TV show. They did a really good job of
the hype for that show, so we'll have coverage of
that and maybe shouting out to do an audio update.
So a good suggestion, Mark, Let's go to one more

(01:06:25):
poone calls from a n I know five eerie code
I know, five quick questions or coming. Uh yeah, I
just wanted to ask you guys about lay Cool two
weeks ago. They were not allowed in the building because
of security. Did they hook up with that johnsena security
guards or because they were on wrong this week and
no mention of it whatsoever. Yeah, I know that was
what I was like, Michael, that's what they said on

(01:06:46):
average area. Who was like, you know, the whole issue
with Cole and the RKO and how did he yeah
that that that was a mess to me. Swell. But
like I said, Greg, goes Michael Cole, let Lake Cole
in the building and how that was explained? What are
those things were? Just nod your head of it along.
But one thing everyone listening to the Live Past today, Greg,
you and are going to stick aro ount for the
after show until Friday. Thanks for your support of live

(01:07:09):
pasts and this is James Caldwell sign it off. Thank
you for using blog talk radio. Goodbye, all right, Greg,

(01:07:32):
we're in the VIP after show. Unfortunately, today's show, uh,
our last call there was about the uh, the lake
Cool situation and yeah, those one of these things too.
Where when you have that on the same show as
John Cena being allowed back on the show on Raw,
that's White being fired. The same thing with you know,

(01:07:53):
the SmackDown cameos that were so prevalent, you know a
couple of months ago, that weren't really explained that just
kind of happened. I just really think it's they walk
a dangerous line. I think that they they over they
underestimate their audience's intelligence and whether their audience cares about
those things. So greg when when you see a lot
of these things like that where it's sort of looking

(01:08:14):
out of convenience, not from a logical standpoint, what's good
of reaction to you know, the scene is firing and
then still appearing lacal on the show big show cameos.
Do those add up or do you think it's one
of those things where they just say, you know what,
it's just for convenience. It isn't really it's not really
a big deal.

Speaker 2 (01:08:32):
It definitely takes you out of the moment because it's
so hard to believe and get yourself back in the
moment of anything else that's going on when there's that
you know, disconnect between you know, what they're saying and
what we're seeing, or you know, there's these logic apps
that you can you know, hula hoop around. It's it's
frustrating as a fan who and I don't know, maybe

(01:08:54):
there's a lot of fans who just sit back and
drive for the wrestling and don't care about the the
side angles and stuff like that. But as someone who
who is big especially you know, and I'm a person
who in my television shows that I watch, you know,
I'm a stickler for that that internal logic. You know,
there's there's shows that have gone on for ten years.

(01:09:14):
CSI is doing this now where they have actors come back,
Like there's there's been an actor who played a character
in a show or on an episode of CSI in
two thousand and three and in twenty ten they're back
playing a different character. And even though it's seven years
different and no one else notices, that always bothers me
that they're the scene person is playing a different character,
and it just it really it really gets me. So

(01:09:38):
I'm a real stickler for that kind of stuff, but
I'm just so used to it and wrestling it's like
my eyically is over and it doesn't even it doesn't
even affect me now, I mean I'll take note of it.
But it's not like I'm sitting down expecting, you know,
the internal consistency of a television show that you see
on a you know, a broadcast network. You know, you

(01:10:00):
just watching this much wrestling, you know, not to expect that.
But it is still disappointing. Sure, but my expectations are
so low with that kind of stuff that I like
to be pleasn't like surprised when there is some lot
of they kind of connect the dots on and.

Speaker 3 (01:10:15):
It's unfortunate because it doesn't have to be that.

Speaker 2 (01:10:18):
Way, you know, No, that's true.

Speaker 3 (01:10:21):
Yeah, it's if you have the opportunity to protect the
integrity of your storylines, why not do it. I mean,
even if it is at a convenience, you think it's
just one thing and it's not that big of a deal.
These things add up over time. And I mean, obviously
the audience say they I you know, I sincerely believe
McMahon does not. I believe the audience is that intelligent,

(01:10:45):
you know, and that they don't care about these things.
But you know, if you're trying to attract and retain
new viewers, I think there's a certain expect especially for
people who we had to call over a couple of
weeks ago. There's still that you know, he just started
watching wrestling in the last year or two. So that
person is coming in with no preconceived notions of sort

(01:11:06):
of the quirks and the expectations of, Okay, we don't
really expect much from this because it's so and so,
and they don't really ever follow through on this, and
that you know, they're not coming in with those expectations
or those preconceived uh sort of uh, I guess excuses
for w B, and like, oh, well, I guess it's
w B. So they don't they they're not going to
fall through on this or that they're not coming in

(01:11:28):
with that. They kind of expect that if you're doing
a sort of storyline driven TV show, they won't be
followed through and characters will make sense and storylines will
make sense, they'll be consistency, and and then when they
don't get that, when it becomes frustrating to watch, they're
not gonna they're not gonna be rotained as a viewers.
So if you're trying to reach a new audience, even

(01:11:50):
if it is a kid's audience, even if there are
appewing the PG and you know they're not as in
tune with logic and storyline holes and they're just kind
of watching the flashy characters and to see what kind
of funny stuff John Cena says or does. Even if
that's wh you think your audience is, why not go
for consistency? Why not go for the best product you

(01:12:10):
can and to deliberate product that makes logical sense and
that's consistent. You know, I do not understand why not
do that? Even just if you're booking in the fantasy
world in a vacuum, Well, why not just do it?
You know, I don't never understood that.

Speaker 2 (01:12:27):
Yeah, you mentioned the key factor here is that WWE
is always looking to bring in that new audience, but
the reading is the way they are. You know, they
need new audiences, whether it's old wrestling fans coming back,
which is less likely, or new wrestling fans. You know,
they need new viewers. And new viewers are going to
be conditioned to expect internal logic based on all the

(01:12:47):
other TV shows they watch on television, and when they
don't get that from WWE, it's going to be doublely
frustrating for them. And it's Gould be one of the
reasons that TNA has done so little growth over the
years is because they're especially bad at doing this and
paying attention to this kind of stuff. So you know,
that's that's something, and you know, their marketing towards kids.

(01:13:07):
So like I said, perhaps they don't think that kids,
the ones who are they're marketing to, care that much
about it. But they want a product who the kids
can grow up watching and still be fans of from
the age of you know, ten to fifty or whatever
like that. And when you get older, you know, and
you are exposed to other you know, movies and television

(01:13:30):
and media, you're going to be looking for that Ian
wrestling or maybe WW is just gonna say, just gonna
expect you to say, well, it's wrestling. It's always been
like this since I've watched it, so I can't expect
a lots from it. But then I mean, that's that's
just a terrible thing to hope for. If your WWE.

Speaker 3 (01:13:49):
Yeah, it's like a self defeatist mentality or sort of. Ah,
it's like a mix of self defeat and self fulfilled
prophecy and complex it's like all of that mixed together
to get what w's mentality is in these areas, so
I don't wait.

Speaker 2 (01:14:07):
If you were a person, they would have some serious
problems were all together, they would.

Speaker 3 (01:14:14):
Boy, they would yeah, yeah, good point there.

Speaker 1 (01:14:24):
You don't have to wait for the way Keller Progrestling
post show to find out what I thought of Monday
Night Raw and SmackDown. Each week, you can check out
my reports that are updated live throughout Raw and SmackDown
at pwtorch dot com. My written report will tell you
what's happening in detail in case you missed the show,
and it will also analyze key segments and give my
random thoughts quips on what I am watching as it airs.

(01:14:46):
So check it out every Monday night and Tuesday night
at pewtorch dot com. That also applies to WWE pay
per views. I cover those live at pw torch dot
com with a detailed written report with star ratings, and
of course you can find other TV report words from
other contributors to PW torch such as nxt R, OH,
Impact Wrestling and more. Check it out pw torch dot

(01:15:07):
com your first stop for TV and pay per view written.

Speaker 3 (01:15:10):
Reports and also on that specific topic. Is from the
internal Logic and then the issues that pop up from
time to time or we kind of cover that aspect.

Speaker 2 (01:15:30):
Now talking about this frustrates me. Sell up hold on.

Speaker 3 (01:15:34):
Speaking of potentially frustrating to any impact. Tonight, one of
their main events will be a cage match with Mickey
and Terror and rematch from Final Resolution when they kind
of went for comedy with the bathroom brawl after kind
of brawling through the impact zone. I mean, to me,

(01:15:54):
it's not surprising if you'rekind of wrote this in my
roundtable review, is that the feeling in the sense that
I got to this pay per view is that TNA
comes in there with this attitude of oh gosh, we're
another pay per view on the schedule. We all have
to be here, so let's just put something together and
it won't even matter anyway, so nobody watches it, so
we'll just kind of book for the TV show, you know,

(01:16:15):
just st again the self cap on prophecy, and nobody
orders to pay for view because they don't get any
value because you booked for the TV.

Speaker 2 (01:16:22):
Show to does that a lot too especially later?

Speaker 3 (01:16:27):
Agree?

Speaker 6 (01:16:27):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (01:16:27):
I agree, Yeah, I.

Speaker 3 (01:16:28):
Think DNA takes to go another level of just like
why would anyone ever order a pay per view because
you give away your top matches on TV right afterwards,
well right before. But yeah, de Wine doesn't too, I mean,
were right about that and and critique him on that
as well, So they definitely, they definitely have hurt their
business that way. But Mickey tearing a cage match right

(01:16:49):
up to the pay per view, your thoughts on this
matchup is that? So to me, it depends on where
it's slotted. If it's slatted in the eighth quarter hour,
I think it's a way to combat that that trend,
which is that the age quarter hour is the lowest
rated quarter hour seeing a weekend week out now for Impact,

(01:17:10):
But your take on that matchup and and and what
do you kind of expect from Impact tonight?

Speaker 2 (01:17:15):
Yeah, I would certainly be interested to see the rating
if it was in that quarter hour, just to see
that because of the knockouts have been so notorious for
boosting the ratings and making the highest rated segment on
the show. Not only that, but Mickey James has has
a pretty good stand following for WWE days. I mean,
she was one of the most popular divas on the show,

(01:17:37):
if not the most, So it would be interesting to
see what the rating would be. I'm kind of looking
forward to that cage match because they've they've shown in
some of the brawls. You know, if the brawls were
condensed a little more, I think they would have been
really good. But I felt like they just went on
too long a couple of times on TV, so that kind.

Speaker 11 (01:17:57):
Of hurt it.

Speaker 2 (01:17:58):
But you know, I like the pay per view a
lot more than a lot of the other staff on
the Torch. That match with Tara was a slight miss
for me on the pay per view, however, simply because
they played it for comedy as well as the fact
that you know they had it. Felt like they gave
away for the past three Impacts leading up to that,

(01:18:21):
ten minutes on each show of Tara and Mickey James
brawling backstage. While it's nice to do that to show
the intensity these two women have and make you want
to see them in an actual match with an actual result,
the downside is you're giving away that exact match ten
minutes of it each week on Impact before the match,
so by the time you see it, it's not unique

(01:18:42):
because you've seen the same thing for three weeks on Impact.
So I think that was another reason that that match
was a miss for me. But you know, with Tara
and Mickey James, I still think it was a better
match than you know, if you put any of the
other knockouts in there.

Speaker 3 (01:19:03):
Yeah, yeah, they made it work. But I areue with
you that then if you give the I mean they
gave away the match on TV, like you said two
or three times. You know, the match stipulation was false
gone anywhere and they basically had like three falls gone
anywhere brawls and the impacts are you know, around the
impact zone before the pay per view? Okay, why am

(01:19:23):
I over the pay per view now to see the
pinfall on the bathroom floor? I mean, come on, So, yeah,
did you give it a six or six and a half?
Greggon in your round table? I give a six and
a half.

Speaker 2 (01:19:37):
Yeah, you know that it was it was showed that
there there wasn't anything on it, that there wasn't the
usual PNA ridiculousness of the booking. I mean, most of
the matches were pretty straightforward. I didn't like all the
stipulations that I wrote in the round table, but I
thought for the most part they played well, even guys
who I usually get annoyed by like Rhino and Abyss.

(01:19:58):
I thought they put on decent affor. Uh and and
I could tolerate watching their matches. Uh So that was
a plus for me. Plus you had the machine guns
and the generation me that style is not for everyone,
but taking it for what it's worth, they did a
great job, as they continue to do. You know, you
had Douglas Williams versus aj styles, which I was probably,

(01:20:19):
you know, a match of the Year candidate in TNA.
I just really loved that match. You had Jeff Jarmo Joe,
a match that that went in the direction that should
have gone in based on the build of this feud,
with Jared barely hanging on a couple of times, Joe
clearly asserting his dominance, but Jared kind of winning in
a chicken shit heel kind of way. Uh So, I

(01:20:39):
thought that was the right decision on TNAH recommended for that.
Uh So, you know, I thought they did a lot
of things right on this show that they hadn't been
doing it on previous shows. And there wasn't any real
stinkers as far as matches went.

Speaker 3 (01:20:53):
Yeah, you know, kind of.

Speaker 9 (01:20:57):
To me, the there.

Speaker 3 (01:20:59):
Wasn't a great match I grew through the AJ and
Doug was a good match, A very good match. I
think I had a three and a half before. I
really enjoyed that match. I think WAYE put it back,
it looks like they were trying to have a competition.
They were trying to have a match. They're trying to
have a fight. You know, there was something on the
line and they were competing for it. The guns and

(01:21:19):
generation of me. I just thought it was overdone in
the spots and again they gave away. They gave away
so much on TV they had the empty arena brawl.
I thought they they took that few too far.

Speaker 2 (01:21:32):
On TV.

Speaker 3 (01:21:32):
They didn't have anywhere else to go but to the
table on top of the ladder, you know. And I
thought it was kind of convoluted. That kind of took
me out of the moment. A Biss and Pope. I
could not get over that casket, you know, the entire match.
I just could not get over the casket. It looks
so cheap and flimsy and like a styrofrome, just just

(01:21:55):
like a styrofrome. Hadded thing.

Speaker 2 (01:21:58):
It just it just looked though I liked the visual
of a bitch punching out the side of the casket
while he was in it to prevent Dinnera from closing it.
I mean, it's consistent with his monster character, you know,
of destroying things. And I think it was unique enough
that we haven't seen that in that kind of match before,
so that that worked for me, that that spot did,

(01:22:18):
and I think it helped the match, helped make the
match somewhat more memorable than it would have been otherwise.

Speaker 3 (01:22:25):
Yeah, so to me, it was mimorable for the wrong reasons.
I started laughing. It looks like it looks like a
price is right that punched out game where you like
punched the little dollar sign on the board. Yeah, that's
also like paper man, That's what I think.

Speaker 2 (01:22:42):
This is a little sturdier than this. Didn't a miss
came up bleeding, so it must have been.

Speaker 3 (01:22:46):
Starty displeased all the time.

Speaker 2 (01:22:49):
You know, So well, yeah, I guess. But you know,
I don't think he's just a big saucy and anything
he touches, he bleeds. He bleeds all the time because
he's a crazy fo. He who's who's doing you know
whatever to his body? And it doesn't care And we'll
do whatever it takes. I can't believe I'm spending as
much time defending TNA, but here we are. I thought

(01:23:10):
it feels kind of weird, so I gotta challenge you
on it. You no, I know, and you know, I
was surprises anyone else that I enjoyed that pay per
view as much as I did. I just think I
thought it was I was entertained watching it, you know,
And I can't say that often. Maybe I gave it
artfish like high grade because I've been this. This was

(01:23:32):
a pay per view that I enjoyed more than other
pay per views, and you know, I just am not
used to being enjoying the TNA pay perviews like this,
and I and maybe I went maybe I went a
little high. I think my low tecle would go with six,
though I don't think I would go any lower than that.
But yeah, like I said that, there was stuff on

(01:23:53):
there that I really enjoyed and I didn't feel like
my night was wasted after watching it. Yeah, and that's
a good feeling as you watching PNA.

Speaker 3 (01:24:04):
That sarcasm, that's a positive feeling after a TNA pay
per view.

Speaker 1 (01:24:10):
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(01:24:32):
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Speaker 3 (01:25:38):
To me. To me, it just what dragged down for me,
I think more than anything but you said, I mean,
there are some good aspects throughout. It seemed like each
match pretty much had a purpose. You know, uh, maybe
at all of them, but you know, most of them
had a purpose. I think more than your typical pay
per view t from TNA. The imagine that a purpose.

(01:25:59):
I think what you do for me was that it
didn't feel like it mattered. You know, it just didn't
feel like anything was gonna add up to mattering at
the end of the day. And that's more I think
a reflection of TNA where they are right now as
a company and as a product is it just and
brings much of kind of feel like this. It just
didn't feel like accounted. You know, whether it's a you know,

(01:26:21):
an NBA exhibition game or spring training, it just doesn't
feel like whatever the equivalent sports analogy is. It didn't
feel like accounted. Uh. And that's kind of the feeling
that I was having to fight throughout that pay per
view because I came in trying to evaluate the show,
you know, on one hand, but also does anything that's

(01:26:41):
happening here matter? And when that one of the very
first matches is that that that brawl with Dependable on
the bathroom floor, that kind of took me out of
the moment for a couple of matches, and I had to,
you know, kind of get back in the moment of Okay,
this is some things are going to matter. But TNA
as a whole, as a product, just times where I
just don't feel like it matters. The the audience isn't there.

(01:27:04):
The booking, I think it's flawed. The story lines just
aren't relevant. Hulk Covid and Eric Bischoff and Dixie Carter.
That doesn't matter to me, and I don't think it
matters to the audience. I don't think the audience is
sitting there with baited brutt, why didn't you hear the
latest legal update on Hull, COVID and Dixie Carter on
tonight's impact. I just don't think there's any anticipation for

(01:27:26):
that count the slammings on Monday. So that's kinda my
four point zero is almost reflection of this didn't matter
in some of the things I didn't like, uh, and
I think other things were gonna washed out by the
negative aspects that I found on that show. So that's
kind of where my four point zero comes in. But
like you said, recommen, there was entertainment value that there

(01:27:46):
was on that show, So I just think mine was
dragged down by the state of T and A and
where they are right now as a product and as
a company. So I think that's kind of how we
reconcile our two different scores. I definitely understand yours, but yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:28:04):
I guess I guess it all depends on how much
stock you put into what you're seeing mattering, you know.
That's that's another thing, you know. I I sit down
and watch PNA and I just hope to be entertained
for for three hours and not feel like, like I said,
I've wasted a night, whether it matters or not, you know,
that's that's that's a whole different aspect. I thought the

(01:28:26):
pay per view as far as that just I'm looking
at ways report now on the torch, and you know,
I can go through each match and kind of tell
you where they could take things from here or where
these guys would go from here. So I think even
looking at these matches, I feel like they matter more
than they have in recent months. Hardy and Morgan is

(01:28:47):
the one where I'm out struggling, which ironically is the
main event. But if you look at in Kings versus
Beer Money Number one Contendership, so Beer Money wins there,
They're gonna go on to say the machine guns who
beat Generation Me, taram Key, James and falls Count anywhere
match that kind of sets up the match we're gonna
see impact of steel Cage match, Robbie e versus Jay Lethal,

(01:29:09):
Robbie wins. That's I mean, that's a way to get
Robbie on the pay per view. I I would agree
that I don't know that that matters much. Rhyo Rob
Van Dam could be the last time we see Rhino
on TV. You know, I haven't seen the the the
tapping results or anything like that. But I know that
there's some wondering out there if Rhinald's even re signed

(01:29:30):
with tn A RVD. Winning here seems to you know,
put an end to any anything Rhyano had to do
with EV two by by losing pretty cleanly there. Uh,
Douglas Williams gets one up on Fortune by winning the
TV title match over AJ Styles, and I'm sure that's
gonna make Styles kind of pissed off for the next

(01:29:51):
few weeks, and Fortune and Flairo get him. Uh, probably
a rematch against Williams. Machine Guns versus Generation me the
tag titles run the line, but again that's more about,
you know, the athletic ability is showing that off and
showing off new moves and any kind of of you know,
future meaning. The machine Gun's winning means they says beer

(01:30:11):
money again for the title that I supposed, uh, Dinner
on a Bitch and a casket match. I think that
the casket match was kind of unnecessary to begin with,
so I don't really know what the point of that
was at all. Jarrett, Joe, you know that's that's you know,
it's getting closer and closer to leading to Kurt Angle
coming back and beating Jared. Jared beats joke, makes his

(01:30:32):
ego even bigger until Angle is gonna come and kind
of quatch it. And then you've got the main event,
which again Hardy Morgan. Then they get Jackson James involved again,
so you know, I'm sure we'll see some reference to
him on Impact as well. So I thought, you know,
I think you're right in that most shows don't feel
like they matter, but I think this one, looking through,

(01:30:54):
it feels felt to me, maybe subconsciously, and that's why
I give it a high grade, but actually felt like
it mattered more each individual match, taking him and looking
at him like that just did than previous pay per views.

Speaker 3 (01:31:07):
Yeah, I agree with you that. Yeah, within the within
the context of T and A, I think every match
and the purpose, you know, it wasn't like they just
threw a couple of you know, you know, let's you know,
full Rob Terry and uh oh, I don't.

Speaker 2 (01:31:23):
Know, I don't care, guy, JA don't talking next from
that name.

Speaker 3 (01:31:25):
Please, we'll get used to it. Greg, he's coming back now.

Speaker 5 (01:31:30):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (01:31:31):
But you know, I mean, it's all they threw together
Terry and right on and then then Tim and the
match that meant nothing. So I grew with your points
on that that you know that uh uh, you know,
the matches served a purpose in TNA. I just think
overall as a whole kind of looking at TN A
in A in a larger context, which you know, trying

(01:31:52):
to balance that with the actual content of the show.
To me, it just didn't feel like anything mattered because
TNA doesn't matter right now. They're just irrelevant. So that
that's kind of where I was trying to reconcile those
two things. Like you said, you make a great point
that each match served a purpose in TN.

Speaker 2 (01:32:10):
So so let me ask you this, when you grade
the pay per views, do you automatically start them instead
of like at A ten? Do you start them at
a six? I mean, because there there P and A
doesn't matter and they're not going to matter until something's
big changes. So I mean every pay per view is
gonna have that same feeling. So do they automatically start
out with the lower grade?

Speaker 6 (01:32:31):
No?

Speaker 3 (01:32:31):
I mean it's you know, no, I don't think so
it's kind of what you know, what Bruce and I
have argued about is how to evaluate TNA pay per views.
That's also the most difficult aspect of my job is
evaluated TNA pay per view. But no, I you know,
I don't start them off with it with any number
in my head. I really don't even think about a number.
And so after the show is over, so you can

(01:32:53):
say that I don't know that I start with a
zero and work up to whatever, and I don't think.
I don't think I show with a ten and it
worked out too. I think it's just I look at
the you know, where is TNA right now? And did
they put it? I think more of it is what
toad did they take this pay per view? Did I
get a sense that they were trying to make something?

(01:33:14):
They were trying to make this scene more relevant than
then TNA is in my perception, you know, here's where
I perceived TNA in the grand scheme of things. Did
they try to rise above that or do they say,
you know what, we acknowledge that we're not really relevant
right now and this pay per view is huh laying duck,
So we're going to come to that level or below.
And if I feel that they come to that level

(01:33:35):
or below, then usually that's going to have hurt their
rating for me in a pay per view I want
to make I want to feel like what happens on
this pay per view feels important and relevant.

Speaker 2 (01:33:46):
So is that is that more important? I'm trying to
understand what you're saying here. Is that more important than
if you have an entire card full of four star matches?
I mean, how do you rate rla's pay per views,
because that's pretty much that rh is a smaller scales
than DNA. They don't matter in the grand scheme of
pro wrestling. So do you do you there about them?

(01:34:07):
Because they don't They don't matter quote unquote, I.

Speaker 3 (01:34:11):
Think because Ring of Honor doesn't come into it with
sort of a here's the thing. That's kind of what
I what I criticized DNA for is that they come
in acting like you know, they're they're setting the world
up fire with the product because whole cocos are going
not raising the bar that they have the greatest product
in the world. And to me, no, you don't because
you're so you your product is so stale and such

(01:34:32):
as deerox of a copy that they have a higher
perception of who they are as a wrestling company. That
I think that that inherently is what hurts their product.
I think Ring of Honor comes into, you know, to
the final battle paper. They're not coming in with the
idea that this is gonna draw eight thousand, you know,

(01:34:53):
eight eight hundred thousand buys, and that we're on you
know where. You know, we're on national TV, on on cable,
on primetime that's being seen by two or three or
four or potentially three or four or five million people
each week. You know, they don't to me to bring Amart.
It comes in with this is who we are for
a niche company with a limited, limited fan base, So

(01:35:15):
we'll give you quality wrestling. That's who we are. We're wrestling,
And so I evaluate them based on do they deliver
what they who they are, which is a wrestling product
on a smaller scale. So I don't penalize them for
being a small scale promotion.

Speaker 4 (01:35:39):
Are you a fan of AW looking to sit back,
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(01:36:01):
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Speaker 3 (01:36:26):
With TNA, they come in with, you know, we have
Aaron Fischoff, we have PHAULK. Cogan, we have Jeff Hardy,
we have you know, on and on down the list.
Yet our product sucks, you know. So we have all
these people, but because our product isn't innovating, isn't new,
isn't fresh, It's a xerox of a xerox. And because
they come below what I think should be their standard,

(01:36:48):
I think that hurts them. And I think that that
hurts them on the pay per views when they come
out with the attitude of well, no one's ordering his
pay per views, so it doesn't really matter, and I'm
gonna deliver better stuff on TV anyway, so uh, and
they come out with this attitude of that nobody's watching.
So I feel like that attitude permeates the entire card,

(01:37:11):
and even stuff that has potential to be great doesn't matter.
So I think it kind of it kind of knocks
it down. I mean, I wrote my roundtable deck williams
aj Styles was a really good matchup, but because the
way it was presented, it was presented as, oh, here's
just something to fill in and you know, twenty minutes
of TV. I'm sorry, twenty minutes of pay review time
with you know, ring intros and the match and the

(01:37:33):
aftermath which was non existent. But here's twenty minutes of
pay per view time. Here's something that we can use
to fill some time. That that's the way that's presented
to me, and to me, that's just such a disservice
to that matchup, to those wrestlers, to the audience who
wants to buy into the resting product. And that's sort
of where I penalized TNA with their attitude and how

(01:37:54):
I feel like it permeates the entire card. Matt Morgan,
he's on a quest for a championship, he's a baby
face and back to back main events on pay per view.
Hype that why isn't there a video package hyping his quests?
You know I don't understand that, and so I that
that factors into that this company does not get it,

(01:38:15):
and I think that hurts their overall rating from my
perspective of are they trying to strive to be better
than how I perceive them and not right now? If
perceived them as not being relevant, and I think there's
good evidence that they that they aren't relevant right now
because of the product they put out on TV and
on pay per view and so and so that factors
into it the CALVIAI my roundtable. I didn't review many

(01:38:37):
of the matches because to me, the matches will either
are pretty good to very good in the case of
Doug Waiam's and aj styles. But on the whole, the
way TENA presented it to me, it didn't fink it mattered.
And that's kind of where I evaluate TNA TNA right now,
is that a lot of what they do they think
they have such a high opinion of what they're doing,

(01:38:57):
but if you look at it from where do they stand,
I don't think it matters. You know, the ratings there,
the characters and how they use the characters, the people
they have on payroll, and how little effectiveness they there
is and behind their use. I think all those things
kind of factor into how I evaluate a pay per view.

Speaker 2 (01:39:16):
I'll agree with you in saying that I get tired
of hearing Hall cooldn come out every week and say
how they're revolutionizing the business. I think it's a little much.
It's only about a little bit. I also think it's
a totally different argument than what you were saying that
TENA isn't irrelevant. I think those are two different arguments,
and I think you as soon as you're trying to
use one to address the other. But I'll say that

(01:39:36):
I like that TNA thinks TENA has a higher opinion
of themselves. I like that route that they're taking better
than we're fighting over another company's hall of fame rang
because they're bigger than us and they're better than us,
and that the viewers, the viewers can sense that. And

(01:39:57):
I think viewers would rather be attached to a company
that thinks that they are a big deal and takes
themselves seriously, as opposed to a company that constantly refers
to the competition and constantly has that you know, that
inferiority complex where they feel like they're you know, they're redheaded.
Step child or professional wrestling, and they're going to let

(01:40:18):
you know it. So you know, because we've been critical
of TNA of doing it in the past, so you know,
I'm not going to be hyper critical of them for
doing the opposite and kind of huffing their chests out
and making themselves or attempting to make themselves a big
deal and by doing so, attempting to make themselves relevant.

(01:40:40):
I think that's a better tax for them to take
than what they had been doing, which was referencing WWE
every week.

Speaker 3 (01:40:49):
Yeah, they need to eliminate the w W references and even
eliminate the you know, the ratings and the pay per
view buys, and I hate that. It's just nonsense to me.
The point is that I think that when I say
that they have a higher perception of the product, I
think that anyone can see through, but that the products
right now is suffering because I had I had to

(01:41:12):
come back and I lost it. But or not a comeback,
but an explanation to kind of further clarify it. But
when when they're talking about Hulk Cogan and when he's
talking about nonsense and other talking about raising the bar,
to me, that's just such, it's so transparent that they
the product is not working because they have to talk
about the product itself and so the storylines and the

(01:41:32):
story and I think that's what hurts ther relevancy is
that they refer so much to the product instead of
the you know, the feud or the quest, the championship quest.
The two guys who have an issue talk about the stories.
And that's what I talk about is that when you
have to refer to the overall product, to me, that
to tell that your product is not good. And I

(01:41:54):
think it's it's so transparent when you see a week
after week after week with hul Cogan talking about stuff
that should not even be mentioned on the air at all,
Like you said, the w W things, the Hall of famering,
the things that are so transparent. So that's where I
come from on that, and that's where I kind of
evaluate that this pay per view did not matter because

(01:42:14):
I felt like that attitude permeated the pay per view.
And that'sok the way my evaluation of it, because that's
why I felt like it did not matter.

Speaker 6 (01:42:21):
And those are and.

Speaker 3 (01:42:24):
It's so hard to reconcile those two things. But I
think and evaluating TNA big picture, I kind of I
feel I have to evaluate that as part of the
overall pay per view experience and the overall pay per
view itself is where does this pay per views fit
in the larger context of where TNA is at that
point in time when the pay per view took place?
And that's kind of where I had to evaluate it.

(01:42:46):
It also along with the quality of the actual show
and the actual content and the actual products. So it's
hard to you know, it's hard to reconcile those two things,
but I feel I have to when when I evaluate
a TNA pay per view much WN be, you know,
where where does the w W paper you fit into into
a larger context to where there are as a company.
If I have to do that to evaluate not just

(01:43:08):
the matches but also the pay per view, I think
we monitored is its own thing. They they're a smaller scale,
So uh, to me, I kind of evaluate, Okay, this
is who they are, they acknowledge who they are? Do
they deliver on who they are? You know? I think
that's that's kind of a it's different you know, I
don't think it's I don't know if it's a different scale.

(01:43:32):
I just think it's different. I think. I think it's
just different. So that's how I reconcile that. But uh, yeah,
are you gonna thoughts on that?

Speaker 2 (01:43:42):
Greg? We need a lot of hours on this, But
I think I think we've I think we really reached
a point where we both see each other each other's clients.
We disagree, but you know, that's that's part of things.
We don't get these conversations a lot on the life deft.
I wish we had them are but for them both
for we generally see eye to eye on things. So
it's nice to have a you know, a knockdown, drag

(01:44:04):
out everyone.

Speaker 3 (01:44:05):
Wow. Yeah, yeah, it is, it is, And it's just
I mean, to me, I have to take a big
picture when I evaluate it, and sometimes it's I've got
to see, Okay, this is where TNA is right now.
The product to me is irrelevant because they're underperforming on
who they think they are and how they think that
their product is. And as a result of that, I

(01:44:27):
think it's made the product seem irrelevant at this point
in time. And that's how I have to evaluate.

Speaker 2 (01:44:33):
And so yeah, I definitely get that attitude because sometimes
I'll have an impact on the DVR, and you know,
I'll be trying to sit down at a time on
the weekend or you know, early next week to watch it.
And there's no rush to watch it because I and
there's sometimes where like jeez, can I just read you know,
Dan Wilcan, selves or James are ways to important to
get the gist of what I'm saying. I mean, do

(01:44:54):
I need to really take an hour and a half
out of out of my life to see this? Is
it really that important? You know, I end up doing
it anyways most of the time, but you know, you
certainly get to that point where you know it is
what I'm Is it worth taking time on to watch this?
Is it going to matter? And I guess the way
we differ is what weight we give that when looking

(01:45:18):
at a pay per view And I think that's where
we come and coming differently on that.

Speaker 3 (01:45:21):
Yeah, but that's a good point, Greg, it is. Yeah, Yeah,
I think that's probably you probably nailed it on the
difference on how you weigh it. And yeah, I mean
I could who knows, I could watch the dvd. You know,
I could be you know, three months removed from the
pay per view and what just watch the dvd? I
could probably give a six, you know, because I won't

(01:45:43):
be thinking about the exact moment in time in which
the pay per view happened. So you know, it's how
you evaluate and and and that's what makes it. That's
what makes the roundtables fun and why we do it
is because you get different you get different opinions, you
don't have the brain think, and you get different ways
of evaluating it. And I think it makes a more

(01:46:04):
rounded review of an event. So it surrounding.

Speaker 2 (01:46:08):
Oh, round table, I get it.

Speaker 3 (01:46:12):
I just came up with that. I don't think that's
officially why we call it round I think it's just
we're sitting around and we're discussing it, and this is
what we came up with. But do you have a
more rounded review? That's roundtable? There you go? All right, Greg,
I think we've gone long enough. Good debate. Always good
to talk to you. We have a chat debate, we
have an audio debate. So a lot of good content

(01:46:35):
that I think you and I have produced today. So
good to talk to you, and we look forward to
your poor un SmackDown on Friday.

Speaker 2 (01:46:43):
Okay, Jams, thanks a lot.

Speaker 3 (01:46:45):
All right, Greg? That is Torch called miss Greg Parks.
This is Torch Assistant editor James Caldwell.

Speaker 5 (01:46:49):
Sign it off.

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