15 YRS AGO: Keller & Powell talk NXT3, Orton-Cena, Jericho's future, TNA talent roster, Night of Champions, plus VIP Aftershow focus on BFG

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 2 (01:05):
Now PW Torchen Spreaker bring you the Wade Keller Pro
Wrestling Podcast.

Speaker 3 (01:14):
Today.

Speaker 1 (01:15):
On the Way Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast were jumping back
fifteen years to what would become The flag Ship, where
Jason Powell from Progressing dot Need joined me and we
took live calls four about an hour and a half
on a wide array of topics including Sunday Night's TNA
No Surrender pay per view, TNA Impact ratings, NXT Season three,
Chris Jericho's future, the Rajia, some Thing's Never changed right,
the rog GM, Randy Orton, John Cena, and more. In

(01:38):
the previously VP exclusive after show, we talked about TNA
Bound for Glory, Dixie Carter's next Surprise EV two status,
and more. So let's get to it. This live streamed
on September seventh, twenty ten, and it is today's Weight
Keller Prosing Podcast fifteen years ago flashback for Thursday, September eleventh,
twenty twenty five.

Speaker 4 (01:58):
Loop Hop Baby.

Speaker 3 (02:05):
Welcome to PW Torch Live Cast. I am PW Torch
dot Com and Prosting Torture Newsletter editor Wade Keller joined
today as usual on Tuesdays by Jason Powell of Pro
Wrestling dot Net. Jason, how is it going today?

Speaker 5 (02:18):
Wonderful? Wonderful, going to my first game at target Field
as you know, so I'm pretty psyched.

Speaker 3 (02:22):
Yes, I'm jealous. It's amazing as big of a fan
of the Twins as I am in my family as
haven't made it out to a game yet this year
because the things sold out. I mean, I know you
can go certain places and get tickets, but I need
to make it out there.

Speaker 5 (02:34):
Well, but I'm telling people though, I think it's going
to be around for a while.

Speaker 3 (02:38):
You think, what, oh the stadium? Yeah, well still you know,
I mean say that about a lot of things. But yeah,
I want to get out there this first year, and
I'm running out of game, so I'm looking forward to
hearing what you think of it. I've heard nothing but
great things about it.

Speaker 5 (02:52):
Well, it's funny how that works when they build this.
You know, going into building the stadium, everybody complains about it,
and then once it's bill you don't hear any complaints whatsoever.

Speaker 3 (03:02):
What were the complaints about it? Not to get too
off track.

Speaker 5 (03:05):
I should you know, tax tax money and all that.

Speaker 3 (03:07):
Oh okay, I thought you meant the architecture or the
sitelines or something.

Speaker 5 (03:10):
No, No, it's uh, it's turned out better than they
even planned. I think basically everything it was kind of
on a small watch. So I don't think we'll thought
it was going to be as fabulous as it sounds,
and so I'll give everybody a full review after the game.
But I know we got to talk to some wrestling today.

Speaker 3 (03:27):
Well, my final thing on stadiums since you brought that up,
is I'm with you. I mean, I think sports stadiums
are a huge part of communities and that can't be discounted.
And there are politicians who aren't sports fans or who
have just a different philosophy in terms of in terms
of that type of thing, and in the end, sports fans,
you know, the tax money just kind of gets lost
in a cloud once the stadium's built. And that's how
we feel now about it. But if we didn't have

(03:48):
politicians saying no, no, no, we're not going to do that,
We're not going to spend that, we're not going to
tax that, the billion dollar owners, the billionaire owners would
totally fleece us. You know, you've got to have that
give and take where where people are, you know, calling
each other's bluffs and playing hardball in terms of exactly
how much public money is going to go into it,
at least to make sure that the billionaire owners pay
their fair share of building the dann thing. Otherwise, you know,

(04:11):
if that game wasn't played, we'd be really screwed.

Speaker 5 (04:14):
Oh, I hear you, absolutely yeah.

Speaker 3 (04:16):
And then that's how I go about the Biking Stadium too.
You know, it's like it's not just what every other
town did, if every other town got fleeced, but you
should look to see how did it work in other towns.
And the thing that's great about the Twins Stadium is
all that we're really get enough track here, but hopefully
people care about sports a little bit. It's all the
all the activity. I was downtown, what was the occasion?

(04:37):
I can't even Oh. I was downtown on on Saturday
and went out to dinner and went to a concert,
and the Twins were just getting out as I went
ate at a good new restaurant downtown in downtom Minneapolis,
and the energy in downtown Minneapolis around five six pm
on a Saturday on that Saturday night was different. Downtowny
Applis is great, but that was different than I had
experience because the twins were getting out and all the

(04:58):
bars and restaurants were full of people with twins pair
of and it's just as really cool to see. And
it never happened at the Biking stadium on the other
side of downtown where there's less retail.

Speaker 5 (05:06):
Oh yeah, there was like one bar. Well there's still is.
I mean there's just one bar over there the Metro
Dome and that's it. It's I never understood that.

Speaker 3 (05:14):
Yeah, especially with the Twins, you know, I mean the
Twins played at the Metrodome. There's one hundred, you know,
one hundred dates a year at the Dome, not just
eight football games or ten football games. They should have
had more development. But anyway, onto wrestling. We had a
Labor Day edition of RAW last night. We don't have
ratings yet because of the Labor Day holidays, so we
don't know how they did there. But content wise for

(05:35):
the show, Jason, what'd you think, a little bit above average,
a little blow average something otherwise.

Speaker 5 (05:40):
I would say pretty average, maybe slightly above I guess
the thing that concerns me though, as well, I'm entertained
by RAW. I've lost a lot of faith in their
ability to properly promote pay per views. There's something about
Night of Champions that I see as it really could
be a major event for them, but they just kind
of throw it out there like every other bepay reviews

(06:00):
that they have, and it really frustrates me.

Speaker 3 (06:03):
I agree it's weird, but I think wrestling promoters need
to start learning how to promote again. I think they've
gotten so wrapped up in being TV writers that they've
forgotten that there's another component to it. Jimmy Eaton posted
a VA team ever posted a VIP blog. Is our
pay per views dying? Is the era of wrestling pay
per views coming to an end? And you don't get

(06:23):
the sense TNA is one hundred percent committed to promoting
pay per views, but it's not just pay per view actually,
I mean they've announced Sabu versus AJ styles in the
ladder match will be taped tonight and airing in two
weeks on Impact. That's a match And I just recorded
my VIP Keller hotline on this and talked about this.
That's a match TNA should promote as a really big deal.
That's the most acrobatic, athletic, homicidal, suicidal genocidal athlete who

(06:46):
innovated the latter match after Michael's and Race Ramone introduced it,
innovated it in the nineties, and then you got AJ
styles from the two thousands. T and A's greatest athlete,
the phenomenal one. That is a match that people should
get about. They should be talking about how Sabu is
late in his career, but as he's proven he can
still go and aj Styles is the class of this

(07:08):
company when it comes to athleticism in the ring and
he's tough. That's a match you can get people excited about.
Why do I fear though, that they probably won't even
mention it on next week show. There's no impact this week,
but next week I fear they won't even mention it.
They don't know how to promote it. Same with the
Night of the Champions going full circle. Make a big
deal out of the fact that this is a pay
per view in which every match is the title match,

(07:30):
and make that seem special. It's just it seems like
they're just kind of in in their pattern and they
just kind of fill out the holes on the script.
But they don't get as excited as they need to
get so that the fans sense that and also get
excited about it.

Speaker 5 (07:44):
Yeah, and there's just there's so many things to promote
right now. I mean, what could they have thrown a
few more tags on next week's show. It's the season premiere.
So I guess last night was the season finale, but
no one bothered to tell us that, right, and then
it's also raw Roulette and then we're getting Wade Barrett,
Randy or I mean, they have to do that Orton. Yeah,
I'm sorry, Scena versus Orton, and I mean they definitely

(08:05):
have to do that to try to counter that big
doubleheader that ESPN is putting out there and just Monday
night football in general. But man, I mean, at some point,
they just need to get back to really figuring out
how to promote their pay per views properly again. And
it's like they dabble one, you know, with summerslamt it
was all about two three matches maybe and then they'll
go back to trying to promote a full card. And

(08:27):
I don't think they really have a set formula there
that that that's effective at least.

Speaker 3 (08:33):
Yeah, I agree, Uh, and Scena versus Orton, you know,
I didn't get chills when they announced that match. No,
I mean, and and that's disappointed when your top two
baby face stars are going to face each other free
on national TV and it's just not you know, Michael
Cole's like Cincinnati brace yourself for next week's big Orton
and I'm just like, really again, you know, we got
to see this again. It just shows the price you

(08:56):
pay for overplaying a hand. And wwe went probably eighteen
months too long pushing the same four or five six
people on the top of cards, you know. And I
did a cover story in the Torch newsletter last year
on this talking about the statistics of how often John Cena,
Randy Orton, Triple H. I can't remember all the rest
of Chris Jericho. The are like maybe six people total

(09:18):
who were involved with one another incestuously on the same
one paper after another after another, with no variety, And
it was an incredibly high number in a row, or
an incredibly high percentage of the same group of wrestlers,
especially Sena, Orton and Triple H, all involved in main events.
There wasn't enough rotation, there wasn't enough building up talent,

(09:39):
and it got to the point where I just think
people grown now when they think when they think of
Sena versus Orton, as good as a match might be,
it just doesn't feel special because we got it. So
imagine if Po Cogan and Randy Savage fought each other,
you know, is often as Sena and Orton did, we
would look back at you know, Hogan and Savage as
or same thing for Brett Hart and Sean Michaels. Imagine

(10:00):
if they fought each other as often during the mid
and late nineties as or the mid nineties, I guess
is often as or and seen a battle each other,
it just won't feel special. It feel overplayed. And so
there's so many lessons to be learned. And it's not
it's not all bad. But they could have they could
have rotated some new guys in, but there was such
a there's such an attitude in WWE of well, you

(10:20):
got to earn your way to the top or not,
you got to pay your dues, and in that club
got of top guys got so set on nobody else
was worthy of being here, and it turned out that
it ended up kind of hurting themselves in the long run.
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Speaker 5 (11:05):
Yeah, it's I mean, where do you go though? I
guess that's one of my concerns about future WrestleMania is
that they just don't do a good job of keeping
guys apart. This is a match that I thought maybe
they'd come back to it wrestle many at some point.
Does it say anything though? Does it are they made
perhaps tipping their hand that they're giving away this match
on free television with the SmackDown moved to Sci Fi

(11:28):
coming up in October? Are they just getting this match
out of the way because they know they won't have
as an option with the potential of Orton. I guess
we could throw a scene out there as a tested it,
but I doubt it to move the SmackDown.

Speaker 3 (11:41):
It's possible, I mean, it's a logical conclusion to draw.
I'm not convinced that they won't just go to this anyway,
you know, I just think they kind of they didn't
plan far enough ahead. We're getting the you know, one
variation after another of like they say, oh, next to
they're going to be tested in singles matches. Well, didn't
we just have a whole show full of that a
couple of weeks ago. I mean, they don't even They're

(12:03):
just not that sense that they're building through this crescendo
of the season premiere. It's like they just said, what
can we do, Well, we haven't thought about it for
the last six weeks. Well, I guess we can just
do Seen Orton. So I could see them doing that
even without the idea of them going to separate brands.
But I think if you're gonna go to separate brands,
it's all the more reason not to do that if
Orton and Seen are going to be apart for a while.

(12:24):
So you're trying to build up the idea that maybe
in one or two or three years at a WrestleMania
that match seems special. Again, don't throw it for some
one off season premiere rating up against the debut Monday
night football in the Spas. Don't throw it out there
again just to water it down even further. That just
undercuts your ability to eventually turn that into a dream
match when they cross pads again. Ideally they would wait
two or three years before they even thought about it.

Speaker 5 (12:46):
Yeah, I mean, does do you really think just slapping
the tag season premiere on the show is going to
lead to anything for them?

Speaker 3 (12:53):
No, No, it's their way. It's just it's their way
of trying to I think glama onto the idea that
it's exciting. Summers come to an end, a lot of
new shows are starting, and the word season premiere along
with that comes. It used to mean more back when
summer was full of reruns as opposed to summer full
of great shows on HBO and Showtime and Affects and
you know, I mean, it's not like you don't get
new shows anymore during the summer. So in the old days,

(13:15):
saying season premiere met oh, finally reruns are over. But
with wrestling it makes even less sense. There never are reruns.
So to say season premier, tell us what that means.
Does that mean we're gonna have a new logo, a
new show opening, We're gonna have a new you know
that that should be when they have they should have
the draft around fantasy football time. If they want to
glom onto the excitement of draft time and have the
season premiere mean something by having it be a shake

(13:37):
up of the roster, you know that that's one way
to go about it. I mean, if you're going to
play the season premiere card, make it mean something more
than oh, it's the beginning of the new season. But
it's no different than any other show.

Speaker 5 (13:48):
I will defend them and shay that they've moved the
current draft format a little closer to the actual NFL draft,
So at least they're doing that trying to capitalize on
whatever buzz the NFL gets for their draft.

Speaker 3 (13:58):
Yeah, what do you think of This was his promo
last night and Daniel Brian's performance. To me, that was
probably the most newsworthy and fresh segment of the show,
just because it wasn't the same people doing the same thing.

Speaker 5 (14:08):
Yeah, we've heard all that from miss before, but it
was still very entertaining. He just has a way of
delivering things that even if he's repeating what he said before,
it's still you know, it's still mussy TV. Daniel Brian,
I mean, I liked it through promoting him is kind
of the anti superstar. It didn't really seem to catch
on with the live crowd. I can't say I was

(14:29):
entertained by the segment, but I can't say I'm looking
forward to the match anymore than I already was when
I assumed it was going to happen. But that might
just be because I was really looking forward to the
match before I knew his official.

Speaker 3 (14:41):
Yeah, I think maybe this should be the end. I
liked the segment, I'm on a record for that, but
I think this should be the end of miss talking
about not getting respected, locker room, being a reality star,
proving himself the hard way, all of that. At some point,
I think he needs to carry himself like he belongs
there and he's proven himself and stopped talking about the
road he took to get there, right, you know. And

(15:01):
I'm not critical of the fact that he has done
it so far, but there comes a point where you
stop doing it. I mean, imagine if John Cena every
promo talked about how the fact is is, I don't
care whether you like me or don't like me. I've
got some people who love me and some who don't.
And as long as you're reacting to me, if you
said that every time that'd be annoying. Now, at some
point he had to acknowledge that the crowd, some some cheered,

(15:22):
and some boot and the announcers would acknowledge that. But
at some point you just move on and you become
the top star in the promotion and you stop talking
about it every single week. And and so with mis again,
I think now it's about the time for him to transition,
because when you look at that roster and you say,
you know, what if something happened to John Cena injury wise,
you know, let's say he's got you know, a serious
back issue or a needed problem or something, missus time.

(15:43):
You know, Randy Orton has been around a while. You know,
we look at him as like, oh, he's the next
big star, but we've been saying that for how many
years now? And he isn't the next big star. He
is the current big star and he's probably not going
to get a lot bigger than he is now. But
he's not the future of the company. He's the now
of the company. Who is the future? You know? And
when you look at the roster right now, miss is

(16:03):
one of the top guys, for better or for worse,
I don't think it's a bad thing. But some people
might think, well, he's okay, but I'm not quite sure
I'm ready to start building pay per views around him
in main events. So they've you know, WWE has to
build some has to keep an eye on what happens
in the post Scena, post Orton era, and you know

(16:24):
it could be years away, but they got to start
building for that now. And miss is one of the
guys they've got their eye on and they need to
protect him have and so don't have the whole inferiority
complex be what he's incessantly known for.

Speaker 5 (16:35):
Yeah, and they had been doing a pretty good job.
I remember being nervous when he was talking about on
NXT or on Raw with Alex Riley at his side,
about the next big star in WWE is going to
be And I'm like, oh, no, don't say yourself, because
you're already a star, and he actually did say Alex Riley.
So they've done a good job of progressing what You're right,
It's time to go to that next level and just

(16:56):
stop living in the past. We know you're a reality guy.
We know it was tough for you to get there,
but you're there. Move on.

Speaker 3 (17:01):
Absolutely, I agree one more subject before we get to
phone calls, the Chris Jericho situation. What's your take on
it and what do you know about it?

Speaker 5 (17:11):
Boy? You know, I when it first played out, my
initial reaction was that, Okay, he must have worked out
a deal or they must feel close to And then
as the show went on and they had that backstage
segment where Josh Matthews made it seem like it's still
in play, I went into conspiracy theory mode and thought, well,
maybe this is you know, he is leaving and w

(17:33):
W just doesn't want to give him that main event
payoff on his way out the door.

Speaker 3 (17:37):
That's a good theory. I actually hadn't thought about that.
I thought about a lot of different things, but yeah,
I mean that's one of them. They may not have
wanted the match to be about Chris Jericho's retirement moment either,
you know, they want the match to be about the
wrestlers who are going to be around, not a wrestler
who's leaving and who may never come back or may
go to TNA or who knows what, or maybe gone

(17:57):
for a while. So that was my thought. But yeah,
that's a good one too, is why why, you know,
if you don't think he's going to make a difference
in the by rate, why why include him for a
big send off payday. The thing is, this mystic man
is pretty wide discretion on what he pays people. You
know what he authorizes paying main eventters for their for
their pay per view matches, So you know, he could
have given him the low end of it also. But

(18:18):
there is something to be said given how T and
A has really watered down the Kurt Angle retirement step
where every week he's having a retirement match. I mean,
it's just terrible. It goes back to the goes back
to what I said about the beginning. You're gonna do
something big, do it big, you know, treat it as
a big deal. And Kurt Angle putting his career on
the line over and over again is a big enough
deal that they need to not talk about. That needs

(18:41):
to be the centerpiece, number one subject anytime he's in
a match where if he loses, he could be done.
And so if WWE's thinking along those lines, going do
we really want to water down our retirement step? Is
in essence by having Jericho vow to leave if he
loses and then all of a sudden have in the
middle of a pay per view match where we're trying
to tell a different story that will project us propel
us forward. All anyone thinking about is mid match Chris

(19:01):
Jericho's done, you know, So maybe they don't want that distraction.
Maybe they thought twice about that.

Speaker 5 (19:06):
Oh and I could go on for days about the
Angle thing. I mean, the way they've done it. All
it's done is hip people after the fact that he's
not going to lose. And if I know, if they
want to swerve us abound for glory and have him lose,
it's not going to matter because they will have failed
to sell pay per views based on the possibility that
Kurt Angle might retire because no one's buying into it.

Speaker 3 (19:23):
I will give them credit, though, I was very sure
Kurt was going to be Jeff Hardy, and they found
a way to actually have Kurt and not be Jeff
Hardy on Sunday with the finish of that match, which
is I said, we only talk about Jericho before calls.
But let me get the numbers out. We'll do one
more thing on the TEENA pay per view, then we'll
go to calls. The number is six four, six, seven, nine,
two eight, that's six four six two eight. That's the

(19:44):
number to call if you want to participate in the show.
We have four people on hold right now. We'll be
getting to those phone calls momentarily. And also you can
call that number, and we have a lot of people
doing this right now if you just want to ees
drop on the show, if you just want to listen
to the show because you're not near a computer, you
can put us on speakerphone, your iPhone and your commute
home from work or whatever that you're invited to call

(20:05):
that number. We have a pretty generous number of listen
in slots on our network and we get more and
more people doing this all the time, so we encourage
you to do that.

Speaker 4 (20:16):
Need an extra dose of positivity in your wrestling podcasts,
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(20:37):
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Speaker 3 (21:22):
One note on the TNA paper with though Jason the
Jeff Hardy versus Curt Angle Max, what'd you think of
the match quality and what did you think of the finish?

Speaker 5 (21:30):
I thought the match quality was great. I thought the
finish although I get like you say, I give them
credit for not just delivering something predictable. I really didn't
like the execution. Why would it be a twenty minute
match number one, number two? If there must be a winner,
why do you go five minute overtime periods? I know
there's overtime periods in hockey and everything, and even in

(21:51):
the NFL when it could reach a sudden death time.
But why five minutes? It just it felt to me like, ooh,
we need to find a spot where we can get
Dixie and Eric on the show. Go and for the
love of God, quick going to shots of Dixie when
she's wresting her chin on her hand looking completely uninterested.

Speaker 3 (22:07):
Yeah, that was her not really knowing how to react
to things. But I totally agree that what they wanted
to do is there was a place they wanted to
go with the storyline, and TNA is notorious for this.
They go, we want to get here, and they don't
really figure out is there a logical way to get there.
They just want to get there, and you know, they

(22:29):
just plow through the cones on the road to get
there in a straight line, and they don't really finesse
their way to the story that they want to tell
or consider whether it makes any sense all of a sudden.
Like you said at the beginning, twenty minute time limits,
since when, since when does a World title tournament semifinal
match have a twenty minute time limit on it? How
many matches in TNA history have gone longer than twenty minutes,

(22:49):
a lot of them. So there was no big announcement
that now we're going to limit pay perview World Title
Ramification Tournament matches to twenty minutes. From a wrestling historical sandpoint,
that's not a very long match between two evenly matched
stars like Angling and Hardy. You you would expect commonly,
you know, one out of three of their matches would
go longer than twenty And there's so much online it

(23:10):
just doesn't make sense. They could have explained it. They
could have said, because we're on pay per view and
we have a three hour window, we are going to
give the wrestlers a sense of added urgency by saying
you must win the match within twenty minutes, and make
a big deal out of it. Say this is going
to cause Angle and Hardy to actually work hard, work faster,
and work harder to win because they know that clock
is ticking. But they didn't. They just threw it out

(23:31):
there as a surprise at the end, and so that
was in I agree, it's like, there must be a winner,
so we'll do five more minutes. Well, that in and
of itself is stupid. It was two o's in the minute.
It's just stupid. If there must be a winner, don't
say five more minutes, say there must be a winner.
Keep fighting until there's a winner. We don't have to
resurface the ice. You know, there's there's no commercial breaks
we have to go to on paper. There's no reason
to have shorter segments anyway. But then you couldn't get

(23:53):
all over the pay Well, that's that's the whole. That's
the thing. It's the goal was get Eric and Dixie
on pay per view. How do we do it? Well,
here's how we can do it. Does it make sense?
Quit talking about that stuff. Nobody cares about that. That's
their attitude or they don't even think it doesn't make
sense because they don't have respect for storytelling and logic.
All right, Jason got we can talk more you and
I in the VIP after show, which we will do
in forty minutes at the conclusion of the live show

(24:14):
here on blog talk Radio, Let's begin to bring callers
into the mix and go to Eric code nine to
one four. Please state your name and where you're from.

Speaker 6 (24:22):
How's it going. This is John from New York.

Speaker 3 (24:24):
Hey, John, good, hear from you. What's up?

Speaker 6 (24:25):
Today, I got a question about Tonight's next season three.
It's the storyline. I mean, it's really true about the
Giant woman I can't pronounce her name. If she really
didn't get fired or whatnot, who does WW have to
replace her? Would they bring in somebody from FCW or
maybe somebody that was released from TNA.

Speaker 3 (24:42):
I would think GESCW Jason, have you heard anything on that.

Speaker 5 (24:45):
Yeah, I haven't heard anything to make me think they're
bringing someone from the outside. And they didn't make a
big fuss over it on RAW and I know when
that's when they broke their own story that Vicky Guerrero
had fired. I can't even remember how to say the
woman isis the giant basically whatever her name is Aloisha.
I think I got some feedback from people going, that's

(25:07):
a great job. That really is going to build interest
in the show. And I couldn't have disagreed more because
that was the one person people actually seem to care about.

Speaker 3 (25:14):
It at the end of the show.

Speaker 5 (25:15):
So you take her off and then you don't even
you know, the fact that they didn't really try to
build up a big mystery as to who this person
is tells me it's probably going to be just someone
from FCW.

Speaker 3 (25:26):
Jason. Are there any rumors about what happened with her?
I haven't heard any.

Speaker 5 (25:30):
I know there's a report out there that is basically
that there's some naughty photos of her, but I don't
know how much stock to put into that, because there
have been a lot of naughty photos of a lot
of divas that are currently employed by the company, or
I know, you know Mickey James, for instance. They didn't
seem to have a problem with her photo spread either.
She was there and they featured her as a champion.

(25:51):
So I don't know if there's more to the story
and it just hasn't gotten out there yet. But I
really have our time believing that's why they wouldn't push this.

Speaker 3 (25:59):
Woman, Yep, John anything else.

Speaker 6 (26:02):
Is there any chance that they might bring in Joe
Hanning's sister Amy possibility?

Speaker 5 (26:07):
I mean, she's down in Florida. I haven't heard much
about her development at this point, but yeah, that's a
good thinking. I'm not sure. I haven't even thought about that.

Speaker 3 (26:15):
I don't know how many women they've got in FDW,
but they have more than five. I mean, I think
they're going to have their pick. It's not like they
had to scrounge to come up with six and then
there's a big drop off. So I don't think they're
going to have a huge problem with it. It seems
like it's relatively short noticed, and they probably would not
bring somebody in from the outside to be on this
show with this spotlight who they didn't feel was worthy

(26:36):
of acquiring in the developmental system previously. You know, the
the ideas if they weren't unless T and A just
clearly had a falling out with a top worker who
had some name value from her exposure and they wanted
to say, bringing Angelina Love or something like that, you know,
or if Astome Kong suddenly became available in wwe felt
comfortable with her. I could see something like that happening.

(26:57):
But for the most part, if it's just an unknown,
they're going to pick an unknown from their own developmental system,
not from the outside, because otherwise they would have had
them in their developmental system. So yeah, I don't I
don't think we're gonna see anything that's gonna make the
average viewers eyes pop out and go oh wow, But
we'll see I mean, maybe they've got to trick up
their sleep. But I think this. I don't think so.

Speaker 5 (27:15):
Wait if they brought in Amy Hennig, would they call
her Amy McGillicutty.

Speaker 3 (27:19):
Well, isn't McGillicutty the the the mother's maiden name.

Speaker 5 (27:26):
That's their cover story, but now it's not?

Speaker 3 (27:28):
Oh okay, so well they could do. But they could
make that there for her. They could make that the
cover story.

Speaker 5 (27:32):
Also if they wanted to.

Speaker 3 (27:34):
Hey remember there fueled the McGillicutty there.

Speaker 5 (27:37):
Is I still have no idea what they hope to
accomplish by going with McGillicuddy rather than Hannig.

Speaker 3 (27:41):
I don't either.

Speaker 5 (27:42):
Baffles me.

Speaker 3 (27:43):
There's so many reasons that was bad. I mean, it
was buel the McGillicutty. It made sense because they were
trying to pick the most unsexy name possible and have irony,
which you know, have it be ironic when she showed
up and was super hot, right, But I'm sorry, that
just doesn't work with mister Henning or you know, Amy Heading.
So John, anything else you will let you go.

Speaker 6 (28:01):
One good question you could put me back on hold.
That was not watching ww A Classics from demand because
I'm gonna roll. From April nineteen ninety eight, and I
noticed there was Dan Severn against one of the headbangers.

Speaker 3 (28:12):
I noticed that.

Speaker 6 (28:13):
Dan Severn came out with I think it was I
don't know which USC belt it was, but was there
any talks back to USC being upset about him coming out?
I'm not gonna roll with the USC championship.

Speaker 3 (28:22):
A good question. Good good trivia though too. You know what,
how often did the USC belt appear on WWTV or
vice versa Dan Severn in at the end of nineteen
ninety four, I think it was UFC number three, might
have been four. He came out with the NWA World
Heavyweight title because he was given the nw A World
Heavyweight title because he was fighting in USC and the

(28:44):
nw A, you know, which was just kind of a fledgling,
loose alliance of indie groups at that point, wanted to say, oh,
you know, our champion, there is also a champion of UFC.
I think at that point, though, Jason USC wasn't a
big enough deal to WWE where they would be upset
by it, and USC probably welcome the exposure because they
didn't have I mean, this was Semaphore Entertainment ownership. This

(29:05):
is pre Dana White, pre even being on pay per view.
This was during the dark years where they were only
on direct TV or close to that period of a
stretch of time where you couldn't even get it again cable.
So I don't think either group had enough clout or
cared enough or really knew where UFC was headed to
have a strong opinion one way or the other.

Speaker 5 (29:23):
Yeah, that was exactly as I was going to say.
It was probably the most exposure UFC ever had at
that point.

Speaker 3 (29:28):
Yeah, and yeah, I don't think USC would be upset
by it. I think I don't. I think they would
be now because they're big enough they don't need that.
But it also wouldn't be an issue now. I mean,
nobody who's fighting for UFC is also going to be
a WWE wrestler. But you know, it was just a
weird time. I mean that gave Dan Severn his success
in the USC's early years, gave him a little bit

(29:49):
of gave him more opportunity to become a main a.
He gave it an opportunity to be a featured wrestler
in pro wrestling. But he's still he was a much
better UFC fighter than he was a with wrestler. You know,
he his his work matches were. It just wasn't something
he had a natural affinity for. All Right, let's go
back to the phone lines. If you want to get
in line on the phone banks, we'll get to your

(30:09):
college just a couple of minutes. Here the number six four, six,
seven to one, nine eight, two eight. Let's go to
area code six by one. Please state you name and
where you're from. Here it goes.

Speaker 7 (30:20):
It's time to.

Speaker 3 (30:20):
Say, Paul, hey, Tom can do for me? What's up today?

Speaker 8 (30:24):
Not much?

Speaker 7 (30:24):
There had a couple of questions, one with the Randy
Orton john Stein a match on Monday. Is there anything
any match they could throw on the Raw roulette wheel
that would make that match seem you know, new and fresh.

Speaker 9 (30:38):
Scene.

Speaker 7 (30:40):
Well, well we have that the Iron Man match where
seen a last two is gonna go to SmackDown, But
it would.

Speaker 3 (30:46):
Make it seem more newsworthy. I mean, I think that's
what Jason's getting at, in the sense of, oh wow,
someone's you know, there must be a winner and whoever
whoever loses is leaving Raw. I mean that that would
make the match, that would make mer Falls a little
more exciting for me to watch. I don't know a
loser must get a gigantic tattoo on their chest. I
don't know Orton's already got tattoos. No, there probably isn't
stipulation wise, and I don't I don't know that. Do

(31:09):
you think they're going to subject Orton Sena Jason to
the Robertlette whel.

Speaker 5 (31:13):
They might just add some kind of stipulation to it.
I'm not sure. I don't think it's necessary. But my
idea is if if John Cena loses, he can never
wear gene shorts again, and now Orton loses, he has
to wear gene.

Speaker 3 (31:25):
Shorts, that works. I'm especially for that first stipulation. I
think John Cena and Gene shorts. It's I think I
think that's about thirty percent of the reason that guys
hate him. Is it just he looks so ridiculous in
those pants wrestling?

Speaker 1 (31:40):
But we're about to go to a commercial break. Why
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(32:02):
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Speaker 3 (32:15):
Anyway, Tom, do you have any idea what you would do?
Anything come to mind on your side not being as
sarcastic as me and Jason, Well.

Speaker 7 (32:23):
I mean, I do like the idea of the loser
leaves growl, but I mean we've had that before.

Speaker 3 (32:28):
Maybe I don't know.

Speaker 7 (32:28):
I mean, the only thing that comes to mind that
would really jump out is some sort of I mean
they did the eye quit in the Iron Man match.
I mean maybe some sort of ladder match, but I
don't know what they would put on the roll. But
I don't know what they'd be climbing to get since
they're both number one contenders.

Speaker 3 (32:46):
And yeah, well nothing, I don't see. I would be
against seen at Orton having a really big stipulation match
because I think it goes back to what we said
at the very beginning of the show. If you're going
to do weren't seen it in a ladder match? Sure?
Uh an I quit match or a cage or an ironman.
I mean that you gotta hype that for for you know,
three or four weeks ahead of time, so that you

(33:07):
get maximum mindedge out of it. Part of me just thinks,
don't submit them to the raw roulette because they're too
big of a deal, you know. I think they should
be above that kind of small, kind of corny gimmicky,
you know, flap a gimmick, flap a gimmick on on
top of a match. I think they're too big of
a deal, uh and and should be treated that way
where where they shouldn't do that. I mean, if if

(33:27):
you end up with a really big stipulation for that match,
it's just like people are gonna you're going to get
less out of it than you should if you hyped
it for a few weeks ahead of time.

Speaker 7 (33:35):
No, I completely agree. I's just gone with something new that.

Speaker 3 (33:38):
Yeah, those two could do a hair match, although Orton's
ball that doesn't count. Loser has to stop shaving their legs.
I don't know, Yeah, anything else, tom.

Speaker 7 (33:52):
Uh yeah, a couple of other things. Yeah, I'll just
different fault you and you guys can put me back down.
Hold h First one is if they're gonna make Grandy
Orton a full fledged babyface, do you think they're gonna
have to change his intro music because it's that intro
music is pretty heelish in what it is. And then

(34:12):
the way for do you see maybe on Monday Jericho
challenges mis to a match, and I'm the magic ra
roulette thing is they put up the money in the
bank briefcase Jericho went ishesnted Champions so that he does
become the champion that is Champions and doesn't have to retire.

Speaker 3 (34:34):
That's actually a creative scenario. Let's let's say that this
is all a red herring Jason and Jericho and wwe
are coming to terms or this this twist Jericho's arm
into coming to terms and he wants to take time
off to do a fazzy tour or not everything. But
let let's let's say that there's there's a that's a
pretty creative way to go there. I'm against the money
in the bank ladder or the money in the bank

(34:54):
briefcase being put up at up for grabs at all
because I think the guy who went it should be
the one who can since it didn't. Otherwise it starts
watering down the title. But if you had to find
a winding road to get Jericho, so that even though
the GM put him in a situation where he got
booted out of the match, he still ends up champion
at Night of the Champions. I mean that that's a
pretty clever that'd be a pretty clever path to get there.

Speaker 5 (35:17):
Yeah, it's boy. I mean, they didn't add anyone to
the match. I found it interesting that the stipulation wasn't
that if Morrison won, he would get that spot. They're
still billing it as a six pack challenge, and.

Speaker 3 (35:30):
There's well Duntina called it a five pack challenge in
the main event.

Speaker 5 (35:33):
Yeah he did. I noticed on the website they're still
calling it a six pack challenge. But there's not the
usual mystery shadow there to to figure out who the
six man is. So I guess it's possibly still works
his way into that match somehow.

Speaker 6 (35:44):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 3 (35:46):
You remember Tom's first question? No, I'm sorry, Tom, what
was your first was the first of the two questions?

Speaker 7 (35:53):
Well, it was with red yarn. If they're gonna push
him in?

Speaker 3 (35:57):
Yeah, yeah, okay. Thanks. By the way, there's one thing
you learn about this show. Don't ask us two things
in a row. Actually it's fine. I usually take notes
when you guys ask more little one question, but I
end up focusing on the last question you ask and
putting one hundred percent of my effort and answering it.
Then I'll completely forget what the person one wants. Orton's music.
I don't know that they'd have to change it, I don't.
I mean, if he really broke out as you know,

(36:19):
as a PG babyface. Yes, But I think part of
why they're Pushington the way that they're doing it is
is they want him to be to bring in some
of the fans who don't like WWE right now or
don't like it all that much because John Cena is
the centerpiece of traction and he's not edgy enough, he's
not cool enough. I think they're trying to keep keep

(36:39):
Orton not a tweeter, but you know, a little a
little bit more on edge. You know the way that
he called Darren Young into the ring last night and
gave him the RKO, you know, that's that's kind of
a Steve Austin move. That's not something that John Cena
should or would do. You know, that's not something that
John Cena character would or should do, but it is
something that Austin would do. And they're they're trying to
get a little bit of Stone Colds, you know, persona

(37:01):
Attitude era type thing with Orton. So I don't know
that they're all that worried about his music. And I
don't know the lyric right off for the lyrics that
are bothersome, but I mean that's a pretty signature sound
for Orton.

Speaker 5 (37:12):
What do you think, Jason, Yeah, I'm fine with the music,
and I think it should stay. It's one of those
few few WWE songs that I don't kind of cringe
when I first hear it.

Speaker 3 (37:20):
All right, let's go back to the phone lines and
go to UH International or Skype one on one one.
You're on the live cast. Please state your name and
where you're from. What's up?

Speaker 10 (37:29):
Guys down from Charlotte?

Speaker 3 (37:30):
Hey, don, what's going on? What's on your mind?

Speaker 10 (37:33):
Fire a couple of quick questions at you. Yeah, first question,
who is the raw general manager?

Speaker 3 (37:39):
We don't know. I can't tell you, dude, genuinely, I mean,
I don't know. It's not like that information's out there.
I don't think. I don't even know if John Cena knows.
I hope vinsick Man knows. Uh, Jason, I think I've
asked you this before, But from what you've seen of
the of the GM so far, the Mystery GM, do
you think they absolutely have it narrowed down to one
person who's been in mind from the beginning, or do

(38:00):
you think they're hedging a little bit and they've got maybe,
you know, one person and maybe a fallback plan or two.

Speaker 5 (38:04):
Now, maybe I'm reading too much into this, but I
noticed last night, all of a sudden the GM, where
he's always kind of tried to be ambiguous and in
the end it always looked like he was heel. Yeah,
last night he was really going against the Heels and
Chris Jericho and Edge and kind of stacking the deck
against them. So I don't know if that's a sign
that they've figured out who it's going to be and

(38:26):
it's going to be a babyface and they're trying to
adjust that now, or if next week, you know what, look,
it'll go back to being ambiguous where all of a
sudden it looks like he's against those guys, and next
week he does something to almost side with him and
get Jericho back in that match.

Speaker 3 (38:40):
I would like to take this opportunity to go on
a very mini rant and please beg WWE to have
Michael Cole read the freaking statements off of the actual
laptop screen. There are programs like Microsoft Word in which
you can type words, increase the font size, and have
him read an email actually off the computer screen instead

(39:02):
of supposedly having this spontaneous message come across the email
from what just happened, live and unplanned in the ring.
And then Michael Cole stares at a piece of paper
on his keyboard with one and last night there were
four announcements written on that sheet of paper, and they
were in four different columns each one in It's such
a lack of attention to detail. WWE are so particular

(39:24):
about so many things. They've spent years and decades making
sure that that they've got all their bases covered in
this type of thing. They're usually not sloppy in this way.
It makes no sense that they continue to shoot over
Michael Cole's shoulder and show a piece of paper on
the keyboard, and frankly, it's annoying that when they show
him reading the statement, he's not looking at the screen.
When they show him from the front, he's clearly looking

(39:45):
down at the keyboard. This is not a hard problem
to solve. There's two solutions. Yeah, done. One, puts the
words on the screen in a in a in Microsoft
word or an email program or number two, tape a
piece of paper to the screen and then stop the
over the shoulder shot that either of those works. Problem solved. Okay,
my rand's over, can I yeah?

Speaker 5 (40:05):
The real quick?

Speaker 3 (40:06):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (40:07):
Well, last night, if you recall, one of the big
big storylines was that Edge, if he didn't get his way,
was going to smash the computer.

Speaker 3 (40:14):
Yeah, so what do they do?

Speaker 5 (40:15):
Right before edges match, Cole gets a message from the
anonymous general manager on his BlackBerry.

Speaker 3 (40:21):
I know I didn't understand that.

Speaker 5 (40:23):
I mean, granted, we all know there's other ways. You know,
if you destroy one computer, it's not like the anonymous
general manager is gone. But you know what, I can
suspend my disbelief for a couple of minutes and at
least leave it interesting. And they just said, well, if
the computer gets destroyed, there's other ways of communication, So
why bother?

Speaker 10 (40:38):
Yeah, don go ahead, Yeah, last question there. Recently, there
was recently there was something called the World Combat League
and MMA where they had teams from around the country,
different teams in fight each other. You ever see a
scenario where there's like a Major League wrestling where there's
different teams around the country and they kind of, you know,

(41:00):
go at it.

Speaker 3 (41:00):
Against each other a team challenge series, And yeah, Donnic's
go elaborate a little bit more on how you think
that would work.

Speaker 10 (41:11):
Well. I mean, I envision like Major League Baseball. I
think wrestling has potential to be I think, like I
don't watch baseball anymore. I'm you know, more in wrestling.
In other sports. I just think wrestlings have the potential
to be huge. I think there could be something like
Major League Wrestling where you have teams in every city,
you know, and they go around and you know, have

(41:32):
matches and fight each other.

Speaker 3 (41:33):
See the tough part about that is, I mean it
doesn't work for WWE in the sense that they're a
national company trying to draw national ratings. Would be tough
to have to draw ratings based on Team Chicago against
Team Dallas. You know, there's only so many wrestlers who
are big stars. So I'm not sure how they would
execute it if they tied it into the city because

(41:55):
there aren't local shows, you know, where there's individual wrestlings
going out to hard supposed.

Speaker 10 (41:59):
To be separate, separate of ww This is tying into
the huge underground independent movement, which are much larger than
these two than these two companies at the top.

Speaker 3 (42:07):
Yeah, and I mean if you had PWG against Dragngate
or ro oh and and you know, and then let's
say there was you know, different big indie groups in
the Midwest and in the South and in Canada parts
of Canada, let's say they all just kind of said,
all right, we're going to travel around and and fight
each other. I'm not sure without national television that the
average wrestling fan who's thinking of going to an indie

(42:29):
a wrestling indie show, I don't know how interested they'd
be in seeing wrestlers that they don't know because they
haven't seen them on TV, simply because of the city
that they come from. I'm I'm having a tough time
thinking financially how it would be worth it for say
an indie group to pay for the travel. And I
don't think we're going to see someone with the national
television use that approach because you would be we're either'd

(42:50):
be too many wrestlers get over. So again, I mean,
I'm I'm trying to be creative and how I think
about it, but I'm not quite sure how how they
would pull that off. I mean, Jason, you brought up
the Team Challenge series and you know in the AWA
at the and tried to, you know, create have a
new concept since they didn't have the big stars, the
biggest stars anymore, they tried to create a concept for theirs,
the point system and team leaders and that type of thing,

(43:10):
and it's just it's tough and pro wrestling. I've never
seen it pulled off.

Speaker 2 (43:17):
I'm Chris Maitland and I'm justin McClellan's. We host Wrestling
Coast to Coast where we scour the wrestling scene to
find the best wrestling from the smallest places.

Speaker 9 (43:25):
There are thousands of matches happening every week, so Wrestling
Coast to Coast is here to discover the men and
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Speaker 2 (43:33):
There are plenty of podcasts to voters at w W
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Speaker 9 (43:41):
We can't wait to help you find the true hidden
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And justin bemoaning dog pole Fins.

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Don't forget my feudal search to see a blue Thunderbomb
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How can I like?

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Speaker 5 (44:31):
I mean, it's an interesting idea, it's just one I
don't think we're ever going to see coming to Fruition.
It would be very difficult for the reasons you laid out,
and then you know wrestling is built on babyfaces and heels,
and so how do you get one city to like
one guy and dislike another. I mean, I guess it
happens in sports, in real sports, but I just don't
see anyone having that type the type of resources it

(44:55):
would require to pull this off. And it's really an
outside the box idea for wrestling. But I think they'll
probably just stick with the same old formula and try
to make that work.

Speaker 3 (45:07):
You are listening to the PW Torch Live cast. I'm
PW torch dot Com and Pro with Think Torture newsletter
editor Wade Keller, joined today Tuesday, September seventh, twenty ten
by Jason Powell of Pro Wrestling dot Net. Jason, why
don't you give a plug for your website itself and
also the membership.

Speaker 5 (45:25):
Yeah, you can get the latest news on what's going
on with the TNA Impact tapings today. It is actually
on the free site today. Hop on over to Pro
Wrestling dot Net and you'll see all the latest news.
There's also a section for the must read articles, so
you can catch up pretty quickly on all the major
news that's taken place in the last week or two.
And I also have a member section, and the cost

(45:48):
on that is as little as five dollars and fifty
cents per month if you take the annual option, and
you will get a bunch of interviews a ton of
audio on the site. I just recorded my raw audio
this morning. It was a little bit late because I
was talking with some people from TNA last night and
didn't get a chance to do it. But reviews of
all the major pay per views in audio form and

(46:09):
all the WWE raw shows, and a whole lot more.
And some of those interviews include Cork Power, former WWE
Creative Team member, former TNA Creative Team member, Dutch Mantel,
UFC Heavyweight Champion, Brock Lesner, and many more, Chris Jericho
and Chris Jerreck. Although that one you can actually get
on iTunes. That one was done to promote the Downfall
television show that will supposedly be seeing Again. I don't

(46:31):
know way it. I'm a little skeptical that we're actually
going to get a season two of Downfall, but Jericho
blamed on his Twitter page we're going to get it,
so we'll.

Speaker 3 (46:37):
See sounds sounds very good. A couple quick plugs for
the radio show here. Blog talk radio dot com. Slash
Proash Wrestling Desk tors is the place to go if
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(47:00):
time flot Tuesday through Friday is five thirty to six
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so those are the times to listen to us live.
If you listen to us live but can't hear us
every day live, you can listen to us in the
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(47:24):
platform now. On smartphones, you can do a search in
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We're also an iPhone app and have been for almost
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Wrestling to get your free applications. We both have the

(47:48):
same app development company building our apps, so we both
were released around the same time and quick plug Tonight
Tuesday night, Every Tuesday night is the MMA Torch. If
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(48:11):
Kelke and Rich Hansen talking about the news of the weekend,
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Just go to blog talk radio dot com slash MMA Torch.
That's blog talk radio dot com slash MMA Torch. That
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(48:31):
give you the feed if you want to catch up
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(48:52):
and of course, for your daily news on MMA, go
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a full slate of editorialists also unique and exclusive to
MMA Torch, along with original interviews and more. All right,
let's go back to the phone lines here for the
final sixteen minutes of today's PW Torch live cast. If

(49:14):
you want to get a line on the phone banks,
the number is six four six seven two one nine
eight two eight. That's six four six seven nine to
eight two eight. We have two people on hold, so
we will get to three calls before the show's over.
So if you want to be third or fourth in line,
now is the time to call. We also encourage you
to send us email questions at PW Torchlivecast at gmail

(49:36):
dot com. That's PW Torchlivecast at gmail dot com. If
we're ever short on phone calls, or you sent us
a question we want to address in general, we will.
We will go to the emails at times during the show,
and also sometimes we answer those questions in the VIP
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The Tuesday edition with Jason Powell is and all the

(49:57):
VIP after shows Monday through Friday are available too. PW
Torch VIP members. The place to go to get a
PW torch VIP membership and information on all the benefits
I've come with it is pw torch dot com slash
go VIP. That's pw torch dot com slash go VIP.
Back to the phone lines, Eric code three six zero,
Thanks for holding. Please state your name and where you're from.

Speaker 11 (50:20):
Hey doesn't dien from Washington.

Speaker 3 (50:21):
How you guys doing good here?

Speaker 10 (50:23):
And good hear from me?

Speaker 3 (50:23):
What's on your mind today?

Speaker 11 (50:26):
Yeah, I'm just talking about all I want to like
to talk about the lost art of a manager in
pro wrestling, because what really made me start thinking about
this was was NXT and Michael McGillicutty, and everybody talks
about how bad he is on the mic, but he's
good in the ring, and then a lot of people say, well,
mister he's no mister perfect. He's nothing like his dad.
But if you think about it, his dad never did

(50:47):
that much talking. He always had bodies of Ray heenan
Or or the Genius or coach. All he really did
was slip a towel around.

Speaker 3 (50:54):
And spit out gum. So I guess the.

Speaker 11 (50:56):
Question that I post to you is if there was
you know, NXT and it was just Michael mcgillich heady
and he was a new guy coming in and he
had a guy like bobbat the Brain Heenan or Fay
fifteen years ago he came out with Bobby of Braineenan.
What would you think about him?

Speaker 12 (51:09):
Then?

Speaker 3 (51:10):
I love wrestling managers. I think it is absolutely lost art.
I'm disappointed that TNA has largely given up on that.
I've been disappointed for a long time that WWE's given
up on it. I know if a kid growing up,
Bobby Heenan was one of the major reasons I became
a wrestling fan. He was a great, great, great heal manager.
Jim Cornett was a great heel manager in the NWA.

(51:32):
Even the bad managers added something to their acts a
little bit. I like that that you, as a fan,
you would compare it and say in WWE, mister Fuji's
faction to Freddie Blasti's faction to the Bobby Heenan family faction,
and on and on. I like wrestling managers. I think
they serve a real purpose. There are people out there
who can cut great wrestling promos who do not have

(51:52):
wrestling bodies or wrestling athleticism. And there are wrestlers out
there who are great in every way possible except selling
themselves verbally. They can't sell their match. You give up
so much talent, so much potential talent, and it's not
like WWE. You just look at the roster top to
bottom and it's like, oh, they have so many great
talkers and great wrestlers, they don't know what to do
with them. You know, Rungin's thing is my most annoying

(52:16):
person in wrestling in the last ten years. He just,
for whatever reason, he just drives me. I hate I
just don't like his character at all. But it makes
sense for great colleigue obviously to have a manager, especially
when if he's a heel. I mean, babyface managers are
usually pretty useless, but heel managers absolutely work. There are
people out there, like I said, who are entertaining but

(52:36):
they can't wrestle, and vice versa. I think the problem
is is WWE has instilled in the culture that if
you don't take bumps and you weren't and you don't
pay your dues wrestling and going through training camp, who
are you to go on the road and start earning
money in our sport? And so then you're left with
old retired wrestlers being managers. But the mister Fujis and

(52:56):
Freddie Blasti's weren't very good. It was the Bobby Heenans
who were not good wrestlers, and we're you know, weren't
going to be top level wrestlers who who were really
good at being a manager that turned out to be great.
And and or Jim Cornett who never wrestled before he
became a manager, who turned out to be great. So
I'm all for it. I think that, you know, when
TNA looks at what they can do to separate themselves

(53:17):
from WWE, because they don't have the budget, they don't
have the infrastructure, all the things. Derk Bishoff lists off
his excuses for TNA not doing well. Well, there's nothing
stopping them from scouring the planet, uh, scouring the country
for for people out there who get pro wrestling. They
understand how to sell the match, but they're not athletes.
They're you know, they're they're not being muscular guys like

(53:40):
Grandy Ortons, So.

Speaker 1 (53:47):
You don't have to wait for the Way Killer Pro
Wrestling post show to find out what I thought of
Monday Night Raw and SmackDown. Each week, you can check
out my reports that are updated live throughout Raw and
SmackDown at pwtorch dot com. I written report. We'll tell
you what's happening in detail in case you missed the show,
and it'll also analyze key segments and give my random
thoughts quips on what I'm watching as it airs. So

(54:10):
check it out every Monday night and Tuesday night at
pewtorch dot com. That also applies to WWE payperviews. I
cover those live at pw torch dot com with a
detailed written report with star ratings, and of course you
can find other TV reports from other contributors to pw
torch such as nxt ROH, Impact Wrestling and more. Check
it out pw torch dot com your first stop for

(54:32):
TV and pay per view written reports.

Speaker 3 (54:43):
So that's my thought on that. I totally agree with you, Jason.
Your quick thoughts on managers.

Speaker 5 (54:46):
Oh, you guys are totally preaching to the choir. I
just look back on guys like Bobby Eaton, and if
he came along today with no managers, he probably wouldn't
get hired. But because there were managers back in his time,
he was able to be part of one of the
most probably the most successful tag team in the history
of the industry. And even look at Bad Company in

(55:07):
the AWA and Dallas. Page wasn't a great manager. He
was very green at that point in his career. He
wasn't even wrestling, but he added something to that act.
If it's just Paul Diamond and Pat to knock out
there talking for themselves, I don't think that act gets over.
But because they had Page and they had the Diamond Dolls,
it worked. You will be happy to know that, well,
WWE doesn't use managers. They will take their money. Because

(55:30):
I got a press release today from a tryout that
they're holding. I can't I don't remember all the details.
I haven't gotten at Daily tomorrow, and I know it's
out there online already. But if you want to pay
them three hundred and fifty dollars, they don't care if
you're a manager, a ballet or a wrestler. They'll take
the money and evaluate you. They just probably aren't going
to hire you because they don't use managers in WWE,

(55:52):
but they left that part out.

Speaker 3 (55:54):
Well, I would hope if somebody came along who was
really good, that they would be open minded enough to
not look at him and go, well, you're not you're
not a gym ratt and you haven't been on the
road on the indie scene for for years, and so
you haven't paid your duke. So even though we can
make money with you, Nope, you don't get in the
front door of the club. You know, as they.

Speaker 5 (56:12):
Probably would do, is Oh, we can use this guy
as a TV personality. Well we'll try to make him
a commentator or something like that, right, yeah, yeah, no,
I'm totally with you guys. It just it infuriates me
that a talented guy like Jim Sinister, Minister Mitchell, one
of the best hankers in the industry, is you know,
doing karaoke instead of what he should be doing in
pro wrestling.

Speaker 3 (56:32):
And Raven you know was was Johnny Folow, you know,
and and you know there there are Raven could Raven
could still reposition himself as a manager. I'm so prised,
you know he can. He can write twenty thousand words
about why he thinks he's still relevant in the ring,
hitting people with cookie sheets and and and and doing
his act. And I'm not going to buy it, and
I don't think people are either. It's a the hardcore

(56:54):
style has burned out. It's spent, and it's just time
for people to under to accept that. Who who are
trying to hang on by a thread because they don't
want to wrestle a straight match anymore without all the
with all the crutches literally and figuratively that come along
with hardcore wrestling, Raven can be a really good talker. Now,
can you talk about someone besides himself? Well, that might
be a challenge. But if he could redirect his ego

(57:17):
to to taking pride and getting somebody else over and
not talking about himself and rEFInd that act or play
off of the fact that he has he uses these
uses these young wrestlers for his own gain, and these
young wrestlers don't see it or enthralled by him or
in transmind. There's a way to turn Raven into a
meaningful character as a ex wrestler, ex wrestler who's now
a manager, and I think they they can be on

(57:38):
the lookout for that. If let's say Desmond Wolf ends
up with, you know, a concussion issue that that leads
to a sad but premature and to his wrestling career
or other health issues. He's a good enough talker actually,
you know, and he's not super tall like Dallas Page,
where the downside of Dallas Page is he overshadowed Pat's
Knock and Paul Diamond height wise. But you're right, Pat

(57:58):
Pat to knock and Baldeim could gut promo they needed,
you know, it was still a net plus with Page
with them. But yeah, I mean there's a lot of
opportunities out there for ex wrestlers or injured wrestlers or
or non wrestlers to two enhance acts. So we're with you, Darren.
You are preaching to the choir on that.

Speaker 13 (58:15):
Any any follow up on what we had to say, Well, yeah,
I was going through some of the old PW Torchs
newsletters and there's one about twenty years ago, and it
was talking about the possibility of Rick Rude turning face
and the Ultimate Warrior turning heel and maybe Bobby the
brain Heenan walking off.

Speaker 5 (58:32):
With the Warrior.

Speaker 11 (58:33):
I was just thinking how cool that would be if
you could have the Ultimate Warrior, you know, be an
idiot shake ROAs like he always does. But you could
have Bobby the brain heenan talk for him and that
kind of I don't know what that would have done
for his career.

Speaker 7 (58:43):
I mean, it probably would have been great.

Speaker 3 (58:46):
It would it could have been fun. I mean, Warrior
would still suck in the ring. But you know, babyfaces
are supposed to sell and gain sympathy, and Warrior was
terrible at at selling, so maybe he would have been
ultimately a better heel that That would have been quite
a combination imagining the Ultimate Warrior. There's some comedy potential there, absolutely, Darren,

(59:06):
thanks so much for co appreciate it. Please call again.
Let's go to the next phone call Eric code eight
zero eight. You're on peterbo George livecast. Please state your
name and where you're from.

Speaker 14 (59:16):
Hi, this is Amy from Malle.

Speaker 3 (59:18):
Hey any good here from me? What's up? Hey?

Speaker 14 (59:20):
I just have a quick question about Jericho. I know
that right now he's you know, a main feature on Raw,
but I think back last week to the nine hundredth
episode and one of the things that I mean, they
showed so many terrible clips over the years, but One
of the main things that they really missed was that
thought was one of the greatest moments in raw history
was the debut of Chris Jericho back in ninety eight nine.

(59:42):
Really why two j count down clock. Yeah, yeah, the
original debut, And so I kind of wonder if maybe
they don't take his you know, forthcoming retirement seriously or
they're just holding his you know, his true retirement celebration off.
I mean, I don't know if there's any thought behind
why they would have omitted, you know, one of the
greatest moments in law history, true greatest moments.

Speaker 3 (01:00:02):
Jason, what do you think you know it?

Speaker 5 (01:00:05):
I don't know that it would the tour related. It's
very possible they are. But I think they left a
lot of great moments off that show because they were
more concerned with making it seem like what we see
these days is cooler and better than what they did
in the past. It just seemed like there was They
were very light on nostalgia and very heavy on what's

(01:00:25):
happened in the last one hundred episodes or so. But yeah,
I mean, that really was a great entry, that great debut.
I think most of us kind of had a feeling
it was it was going to happen, but it was
still just you know, when when the countdown quock finally
hit zero, it was one hell of a moment.

Speaker 3 (01:00:41):
And my memories. I'm not sure where I thought, but
I thought I thought I saw a clip of that
on that on that raw, but it must have been
something else recently. If you're pretty sure it wasn't on
that one.

Speaker 14 (01:00:50):
Yeah, I don't recall seeing it in there. I just remember,
you know, that annoying music, and then when it finally
hit that's, you know, one of the main things I
always think of, and I just was really disappointed it
was shadowed, especially if Jericho is still as hot as
he is and it's going to be well.

Speaker 3 (01:01:05):
I think if if Jericho leaves WW for a while,
maybe he's leaving just so he can make his third
Grand return and hopefully this on'll be better than a
second Grand Return, which I thought was a little tone deaf.

Speaker 5 (01:01:14):
But and I think everyone has to remember too, he
is doing a tour with Fozzy. No matter what happens.
You know, he's he's scheduled to be gone throughout most
of October, so even if he has or or does
re sign, there's gonna be he's gonna take.

Speaker 3 (01:01:28):
Some time away, yep. And and you know he wants
to be an active wrestler.

Speaker 12 (01:01:34):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (01:01:34):
You know, he says he's got years left in the ring.
So we'll uh, we'll see, we'll see, uh where that
ends up happening. I mean, how big of an impact
you think Jericho would make Jason in TNA? Where he
to go to TNA.

Speaker 5 (01:01:48):
You know, it's funny. It wasn't Jericho, but I was
talking with someone. It wasn't about Jericho, but I was
talking with someone in TNA recently, just about the idea
of who this mystery person is that Dixie is teasing.
And the person at TNA generally isn't too jaded, but
the first one that's out of his mouth were who cares?
It doesn't matter because no matter who they'll bring in,

(01:02:10):
no matter how big of a name this person is,
it's not going to turn the company around because the
problems are with creative and with marketing and the person
at a point, I mean, I think it was probably
more of a moment of frustration for this person than anything.
But it's true. And you know, if Jericho were able
to control his own character, well then maybe maybe they're rating.
You know, generally, when so many debuts, I think they

(01:02:32):
get a little bit of interest, and then within the
first few months it's just they've been branded TNA and
that's not necessarily a good thing.

Speaker 3 (01:02:39):
Amy, before I let you go, any follow up or
additional question.

Speaker 14 (01:02:44):
No, probably another time.

Speaker 3 (01:02:46):
Okay, Riach, thanks for calling, appreciate it. Please call again, Jason.
This size actually ties in well to an email question
that we got at the PW Torch live cast at
email account, which is in response to some speculation about
you know what, what if TNA had a chance to
sign Shelton, Benjamin or Carlito, who would you rather have?
Who should tena go after? And Steve from North Carolina says,

(01:03:07):
whenever I watch Impact, I feel as though they have
way too many people on the roster to give proper
time to all the talent they already have, and it
seems like people are getting short changed already. So I
wanted to ask, do you feel like there will come
a point where TNA is going to have to just
stop signing so much new talent? And are we almost there?

Speaker 7 (01:03:26):
You know?

Speaker 5 (01:03:26):
I think the appeal to Dixie is still going to
be that next big signing, and I think there's something
about her makeup that really enjoys the element of surprise
and all that. I mean, she can't even hold off
on teasing it on her Twitter page immediately, you know,
when she meets with somebody, she can't wait to race
to the Twitter page. I think they should. I mean,

(01:03:46):
if you can get a talent that you really feel
is going to help you, that's great. But I just
feel like they're spinning their wheels no matter who it
is is. Short of Dwayne the Rock Johnson, I just
don't know who could really come in and make a
true long term impact in that company. No pun intent
with the just the state of the of the creative staff.
I just don't think they're doing good work. And I
don't have confidence in them to really, you know, take

(01:04:09):
a Jericho or someone of that ilk and really get
the most out of them that they that they truly could.

Speaker 3 (01:04:15):
Yeah, I'm not sold on Jericho being the right guy
for TENA to build around. I think it could make
them seem like they are once again trying to build
off of the past, and and Jericho's is still you know,
he's a current top star. I mean, I'm not taking
that away from him. But he's forty years old. They're
about to turn forty, and I just think for TNA
to make a statement that we're not just dealing with

(01:04:37):
WWE castops, even good cast ups, you know Christian and Booker,
t and well especially Kurt Angle, Jeff. There's a lot
of names that TNA continues to bring in from WWE
who don't make a difference because it just adds to
TNA and they get absorbed into the TNA culture and
people don't look at them as anything. Like you said,

(01:04:59):
j It's another thing. Just now they're a T and
A wrestler. They're no longer at WWE Superstar T and A.
And this is what my cover story in this week's
Toortch newsletter is about. They need to come, they need
to enter. I think they need to wrap everything up
that bound for glory, but come out of Bound for
Glory with a philosophy, a real focus. And I don't
know what Dixie Carter surprises. I'm not even really in

(01:05:22):
the mood to speculate on it. Honestly, Let's just see
what happens because we've just been down this road so
much before. But I'd like to see TNA look at
Bound for Glory as the end of an era and
in the next day the start of a new era
for them, and take all the lessons that Eric Bischoff
talked about in the Money in his latest interview, and
all the things Dixie Carter has talked about, everything that
they've learned that works and doesn't work. They've experimented a

(01:05:44):
lot in the last year, and they found out that
if Haul Kogan and Rob van Dam and Jeff Hardy
and mister Anderson and on and on can't make a
big difference in the ratings, or at least a sustainable difference,
then that's not the solution. Chris Jericho is not the answer.
It's not spending money. It's it's it's I agree with
this email, or it's taking the assets that you have
and establishing a brandon An identity and a philosophy. Jason,
final word from you before we go to the VP

(01:06:04):
after show. Second's perfect.

Speaker 5 (01:06:06):
I mean, that's really what it boils down to. And unfortunately,
I just don't think they feel like you're doing anything wrong.

Speaker 3 (01:06:13):
Oh the talk right over you who did that? Anyway?
Thanks Hi already for listening. The VID member state too
dat and I are going to continue talk wrestling in
the VIP after show it till tomorrow. Wa Keller's de
signing off.

Speaker 8 (01:06:30):
Are you a fan of AW looking to sit back,
relax and listen to some like minded podcasters who share
your passion?

Speaker 15 (01:06:37):
Do you want to be topped off the ledge after
a segment that has you wondering what the heck are
they thinking?

Speaker 8 (01:06:42):
Do you want to join a discussion on what AW
is doing right and what they could do to improve?
Then join me Joel and me Greg for.

Speaker 15 (01:06:50):
The All Elite Conversation Club every Friday on the pw
torch Live Cast. Fee search pw Torch in your podcast
app and subscribe to pw torch Daily Cast our shows
directly from pw torch dot com. Find full details on
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Speaker 3 (01:07:16):
All right, Jason, let's in the VFP after show here
talk about how Bound for Glory is shaping up and
the television leading into it. They they there's been some
developments at the TENAMPAC tapings last night and today. Why
don't you talk about what jumped out at you so far?

Speaker 5 (01:07:35):
Well, I'll give this boiler warning just in case anybody
wants to avoid this. But it looks like Bound for
Glory is going to be pretty much about two maybe
three matches, and I think the big one is obviously
the TNA World title. I think they made Dixie look
pretty bad last night because the Eric Bischoff comes out
at the start of the show and talks about how

(01:07:57):
they were going to make it a three way match
for the TNA title since they couldn't get a winner
at the pay per view. Then Dixie says no, she
wants to have a rematch between Jeff Party and kurd
Angle to determine which one of them advances, which is
all well and good, but then they have a match
where they don't get a winner, so they just go

(01:08:17):
back to the three way hypa again. So it's gonna
look at this point everything points to it being a
triple threat match or a three way whichever you want
to say. At the pay per view between Jeff Party,
kurd Angle, and mister Anderson for the TNA title. There
is going to be a war game style lethal lockdown
match with various members of EV two working against the

(01:08:39):
various members of Fortune. I don't know if if it's good.
I don't know how many men are involved in this shit,
if it's gonna be five on five or or what
they're gonna do, so I think it kind of depends
on the numbers game right now with EV two, with
them kind of being shorthanded, I assume we're going to
get something with Abyss and they, I think is going
to be one of the big themes going into the showy.

(01:09:00):
I know they're advertising and Monsters Ball match for the
but they haven't said who he's going to face, And
they're also advertising on the Bound for Glory website an
Ultimate X match, and I'm hoping that's going to be
between the Generation Me and MotorCity machine Guns. But nothing
at TV yet that I'm aware of that indicates whether

(01:09:20):
that's going to be the Ultimate X match or not.

Speaker 3 (01:09:24):
What did you think of Generation Me and the way
that they portrayed them on the pay per view, going
from their Christian athletes to their heels who attack people
from behind by the end of the match with Taz
in the middle talking about their big egos as a
negative and then sort of transitioning into well, but you
got to have a killer instinct, And I vote for it.
It just seemed like they were all over the board
on how they were going to promote them.

Speaker 5 (01:09:44):
You know, I guess I just I didn't even pick
up on the Christian athlete thing. I don't know how
that's slipped by me. But I'm all for them doing
something with those guys and having more than just Babyface
versus baby Face tag matches, because I just think there's
only it's not like both teams were completely established and
there's you know, they're going to get a good split

(01:10:05):
crowd reaction and people are into both teams. The Guns
are just starting to kind of get over again. I
mean they've they've been over, but they're finally give them
a real push. And the generation me, it's just kind
of they look like any other hardy boy wanna be
tag team from the indie scene. They're very good. I mean,
it's it's I mean, it's just a it's a look thing.
Uh So, there's nothing that really stands out about them visually,

(01:10:28):
so why not give them something to feud over rather
than just a rivalry between the teams? And uh by all,
by all accounts, their heel work and at Pro Wrestling,
Guerrilla has been really good. Ever, since they joined TNA.
So I'm just happy to see one of these teams
work heel on the other work Babyface, and I think
now the feud can actually take off.

Speaker 3 (01:10:48):
Yeah, they need to have a backstory between these two
teams to get fans to care about them. The Guns
are home hometown TNA tag team. They've it's been along
road for them to win the titles. You can't turn them. Hell,
that makes no sense Generation Me. They don't fit the
traditional heel mold. But at the same time, I think
they absolutely could be effective. There's potential there to be
effective heels and but but it just seemed Sunday it

(01:11:10):
was kind of thrown together, and it probably was you know,
they probably were going with that a little sooner than
they wanted. They didn't have the backstory that they had
with London brawling and the you know, the good promo
to work off of and the established heel, the established
heel promo and personas of Desmond Wolf and Brutist Magnus.
But I'm looking forward to them doing something with Generation Me.
I mean, it's been it was back in January that

(01:11:32):
they debuted and they've done nothing personality development wise until
last week. On reaction when they did the segment on
them being Christian athletes, and it wasn't like it was
sort of set in passing, but then they restated it
on the pay per view on Sunday again. But I
think if you're gonna do a Christian athlete gimmick, then
you might not want to turn them heel, you know,
a week later, unless you're gonna go that way and

(01:11:52):
have them be kind of hypocrites who say what would
Jesus do and then do the opposite and but still
claim to be Jesus freaks. I don't know. It's it's weird,
It's it's dangerous territory to go in usually grown into
a thing because there's almost no way to do it
without offending somebody or just falling flat on your face.
But if they if they lay off the Christian stuff
and have and figure out a good way for them
to be healed, I think there's a real potential in

(01:12:13):
this to be a really good feud. Although I differ
with you because I saw your report on the side,
I was disappointed in the fact that we weren't gonna
get Destmond Wolf and Brutist Magnet's assuming that they were
obviously healthy enough to go. I don't want them wrestling
if they're not. But I thought it was a good
opportunity for Magnus in the ring with three other good workers,
really good workers, to see can he keep up where
is he developmentally and and get him more in the

(01:12:36):
mix in something that means something and Desmond Wolf against
either Shelley or Save, and to me is better than
Shelley and Saving against Generation Me, I mean, because Wolf
is so good. So I was disappointed by that that
switch out because I was looking forward to seeing, especially
how Magnus looked in there.

Speaker 5 (01:12:53):
Yeah, you know, I get what you're saying. I just
there's something that appeals to me more about Generation Me
than that tag team. It's this point. But it wasn't
like that was a match I was dreading.

Speaker 3 (01:13:02):
I agree with you.

Speaker 5 (01:13:03):
I want to see what they can do with Magnus.
I think that's one of the you know, Dixie Carter
made when basically went out on her own and made
some signings, and he was one that was heavily criticized internally,
going why would she hire this guy? And I think
it's one originally originally okay, and you know, I mean

(01:13:24):
obviously very very green. But there's just something there with
this guy from a charismas standpoint, a Mike skill, I mean,
he has it and he's only I believe, twenty three
years old. So if he continues to improve in the ring,
I mean, this guy potentially could be It's a big hit,
but he could be world champion material someday if he

(01:13:47):
improves in the ring to you know, to the extent
that he should. And I know people in TNA that
are very high on him and say that he's doing
the right things and is working hard and he's a
work in progress. But I think it's a really nice
signing for Dixie.

Speaker 3 (01:14:03):
I do too. I mean, I just think he has
that that if factor that you look for. Not every
wrestler is going to be a complete package when you
first get ahold of him at age twenty three, you know,
and and and if somebody has an attitude problem, and
in no way am I saying he does. I'm just saying,
as an example, somebody has an attitude problem with a
lot of other assets, you go with them. If somebody's
got a good look to them and good promo, but
they're not real and they're decent athletes they're just not

(01:14:25):
a great worker yet because they haven't paid, they haven't
you know, spend a lot of time on the road
honing their skills. Will still be it you you can there.
You just got to be really good, and you know,
really really good in one or two areas out of
five and decent in the others. And and it's worth
investing in in somebody. And he's somebody who I think
is definitely worth investing in. Doesn't mean he's guaranteed to
pay off, but of the guys that you of the

(01:14:46):
people in their early twenties you want to put money
down on as a potential paper if you made a
ventor in five years, I mean, he's on that list.
And he's somebody that that T and A should push
the uh the EV two situation headed into bound for glory,
it just seems like it's lost the steam is there?
I mean, do you think everyone just kind of realizing,
oh wait, this is Tommy Dreamer and Stevie Richards and Rhino.

(01:15:07):
I mean, is it kind of clicking now that you
know that that it was twelve years too late and
these guys are all past their prime and Tommy Dreamer
was not even worthy of RUR SmackDown, And I mean
it just seems like everyone's kind of catching on that
maybe EV two was a nostalgia show, but not something
else going to carry them beyond that.

Speaker 5 (01:15:24):
Yeah, you know, I think most of the talents recognize
that going in. You know, granted, they had a dog
in the fight because they felt like these guys were
taking their television time. And I know there's been a
lot of backstage complaining right now, but's seeing guys like
Homicide let go. Yet they have room for ECW guys
that probably won't be around all that long or won't

(01:15:45):
be that productive. And you know, there's obviously other issues
with Homicide, but I think this was primarily a creative
team thing. You know, Dreamer really sold Dixie on this,
and creative was And everyone likes to say that Eric
Kishoff's working to sabotage this, but he was the guy
who really pitched it to begin with, not the pay
per view, but just EV two faction in general and

(01:16:08):
maybe spinning this off into its own television show. And
I don't see this getting its own television show anytime soon.
I think they'd be crazy to go that route, because yeah,
I think I didn't know. What did you read into
that at the pay per.

Speaker 3 (01:16:21):
View weight it was?

Speaker 5 (01:16:23):
Were they setting up the war Games match and a
chance for EV two to get revenge by having them
lose all three matches? Or was that a sign that, well,
you know, maybe they're going to phase these guys out
and the end is bound for glory, and so let's
have him lose here. We'll have him lose it bound
for glory, and we'll be done with EV two.

Speaker 16 (01:16:39):
We might.

Speaker 5 (01:16:40):
You know, doesn't mean they can't keep Dreamer and another
guy or two. It's just the overall concept.

Speaker 3 (01:16:45):
Just wait, just describe two. Yeah, Levy, Dreamer and another
guy or two. It's already down to that. But I
know what you mean. I didn't read a lot into it.
I don't know that they thought that hard about it
in terms of the finishing. I mean, I think they
were thinking. I don't know that they were thinking that
the average fan sitting at home was keeping scorecard of
how if you do two did that night. But I

(01:17:06):
think it is telling, whether it was deliberate or relatively
happenstance that that happened. It does show that the that
they recognize that EV two is not something to it
is not something to build a round going forward. You know,
there's just not the assets just aren't there. You know,
it's a flawed it's a flawed concept beyond one a
one off the sales show. And I think I think

(01:17:28):
they're starting to realize that. And I think they realized, wait,
we're giving TV time to these guys at the expense
of these guys. That doesn't make any sense. And obviously
we know in TNA and it was a case in
WW and you don't have a really smart informed leader,
you know, if you don't have a vincent man type,
and you've got a lot of from people running around
giving their their two cents on everything. So I think
they know more than the person who's making the decisions,

(01:17:50):
or they feel they can manipulate the people making their decisions.
You're gonna have a lot of politicking when when somebody
like Tommy Drummer comes in and seems like he's, you know,
Dixie's new favorite toy to play with. And I think
we're going to see some political effects of that going forward.
But the fact that they're on bound for glory, I mean,
they put enough TV time into this, I guess it
makes sense. To continue to go forward with it and
have some sort of conclusion for the sake of those

(01:18:11):
who did invest in this as fans or as viewers.

Speaker 1 (01:18:15):
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Speaker 3 (01:18:54):
What do you think of Brian Kendrick being added to
the mix given the situation with Sam manag just kind
of being short talent.

Speaker 5 (01:19:01):
Yeah, on paper, I obviously like, wow, that's really bad.
They're just they're they're they're desperate. But I thought it
played out pretty well on TV, I got a kick
out of you know, he was acting like he was
in awe of these guys, and that was a little much.
But then all of a sudden, he gets out during
in that elimination match that they're on Impact, and they
had a nice little twist for him. He wasn't just

(01:19:21):
this awestruck guy who you know was in there, you know,
couldn't wait to get in there with Tommy Dreamer and
those guys. All of a sudden he flashes his sinister
smile and he dropped kicks the referee. And so I
think they're doing a good job of at least even
if he doesn't stay with this group long, they're setting
him up with a character that I think has potential.

Speaker 3 (01:19:41):
Yes, yep, I I hopefully he's the one who comes
out of this with something to show for it. You know,
like if they can if they can take They're not
gonna get any kind of long term money out of
Tommy Dreammer, but if they think maybe Ryan Denrick has
some long term potential uh to be you know, he's
a good worker, SMWWETV exposure, and he's got a memorable personality,

(01:20:03):
maybe they can direct this kind of quirkiness into something.
Maybe he can actually be somebody who comes out of
the CV two things stronger and they can actually build
build a little bit more around build something around him.
Any any speculation on Dixie's latest surprise that that's going
to change the landscape of TNA, Any any words on it.

Speaker 5 (01:20:20):
You know, I'm curious. I mean, I think this, believe
it or not, is whatever it is, It really was
what she had in mind for the big surprise, because
I know, you know, people within the company were saying that, no,
it's it's not hardcore Justice. She's saying that's not it.
I mean, it's possible that she was embarrassed by over
hyping hardcore Justice and the EB two faction and decided that,

(01:20:42):
you know, well, the next big thing we come up with,
I'll claim that was it. But you know, we'll see.
I mean, at least we're finally going to know what
she considers to be a huge game changer for TNA.
I don't get any impression that it's Paul aim And
I did speak with him this afternoon and he just said,
as far as he can, he's concerned. Negotiations are dead

(01:21:02):
at this point. He's you know, there's nothing stopping Pixie
from picking up the phone the next time, you know,
if she determines that this isn't working out with the
current regime. But I just don't get any feeling that
Paul Ayman's going to show up on that show in October,
as much as I'd like to see it. So I
don't know if it's you know, would she considered Batista.

Speaker 3 (01:21:22):
To be a game changer?

Speaker 5 (01:21:23):
I just don't know how many true game changing pieces
of talent are out there that would live up to
that kind of hype. I mean, I like Carlito and
all the I mean, let's let's not kid ourselves. I mean,
he's a he's a mid card player with the potential
to go hire in TNA, but he's certainly not going
to live up to that type of hype. So I
just don't know what it could be. How about you, Yeah,

(01:21:44):
I don't either.

Speaker 3 (01:21:45):
I mean, I don't think TNA is gonna going to
thrive for the next year based on a big concept
or a big invasion or a new faction or changing
days or going live or any of that. I think
I think TNA is going to the best thing TNA
can do coming out for glory is decide what they're
going to be and then be that, you know, really
say we we I talked about this in the live cast.

(01:22:07):
We what lessons have we learned from everything we've done
in the past year, you know whol Cogan, Rob and
Dam Jeff Hardy Monday Nights Live Evy too, all that,
what worked, what hasn't? How can and and go back
to the to what air Bishop has always said, how
can we be different than WDWE? And start just don't
don't make a big announcement about it, just start doing it.

(01:22:27):
Just start doing things better that you're capable of doing
better than WWE. And so you know what's going to
change DNA forever, you know, the landscape of TNA forever.
Maybe she'll surprise us and it'll truly be something astounding
that's you know, just off the charts, off off the
people's radar, and we didn't even think about it or
didn't consider it. But if that happens, there's a good

(01:22:48):
chance it's going to be a horrible idea or a pointless,
forgettable idea. Yeah, bringing in Carlito or Shelf Benjamin or
or even Jericho or Fatista. It's it's we're I think
T and A viewers are over the idea of, oh,
somebody comes in that's going to change everything. There was
a time when it was really exciting to acquire Team
three D and Christian and Booker T and Kurt Angle.

(01:23:10):
You know that there was a moment when TNA signing
somebody who had a job if they wanted it in WWE,
but they got but they got them signed to TNA,
somebody higher than the mid card. That was a big deal.
TNA's passed that. It's like what we talked about with
miss there comes a point where you got to start
talking about can you believe we're still here and start
just doing what you do well that justifies why you

(01:23:31):
are still here. And so I don't know what kind
of announcement Dixie Carter can make that that that is
going to be of much interest to me or TNA fans,
because how does it get any bigger than we're going
to be on Monday nights? How does it get bigger
then we signed Jeff Hardy? How does it get bigger
than Hulkogan and Eric Bischoff or Rob van Dam you know,
or even Ev too. I mean, it's just like bringing
back ECW for a nostalgia show. I don't know what

(01:23:54):
kind of bigger singular announcement there is. There's other there's
other announcements that are you know, would be big. But
I think people look at that and go, yeah, but
in three months we're going to be right back where
we started. So unless it's the then, unless it's an
announcement that we're our talent, RUSS is going to consist
of eighteen to thirty five year old wrestlers and anybody
older than that doesn't will not be allowed to wrestle.

(01:24:14):
That's landscape changing. That would really make a statement. I'm
not sure it'd be the wisest move because there are
certain exceptions to that rule. But if it was an
unstated policy and you only made occasional exceptions, that might
be good. But again, that's not what dicks who can announce.

Speaker 5 (01:24:29):
Yeah, I just I don't know what it could be.
I mean, it's boy, I'd love to see some kind
of creative shakeup. I guess the one thing I've been
oddly encouraged by was Eric Vishoff distancing himself from creative
trying to make it, you know, because at least that
tells me someone in that company realizes that what they're
doing isn't working. I mentioned earlier that I just get

(01:24:52):
that feeling from most people in the company that are
involved in the office side of things, that oh, everything's fine,
And I don't know if it's just they're trying to
keep their jobs and they really believe this or what.
But no one outside the office, talent and pro wrestling media,
and you know, the majority of fans seems to think

(01:25:13):
they're on the right path. And I think it's just
the opposite right now, where there just isn't a tremendous buzz.
Even when she put that out there on Twitter. It's
not like it was a couple of months ago when
she first started teasing that. Granted it was labored a weekend,
the timing was a little bad, but still, you know,
when she made that pease the first time around, people
started speculating this time. You and I are talking about

(01:25:36):
it at the end of the show, but I don't
recall a caller bringing it up. It's kind of scary
that even their teas is for something major just don't
register with the fans anymore because they just don't believe
that she knows what it qualifies as a game changer.

Speaker 3 (01:25:51):
I think you're right. I think there's now a lack
of faith in Dixie Carter and TNA's ability to even
know what a worthy surprise is that lives up to
the hype and be to have enough follow up on
it to make it as relevant as it might have
seemed at the beginning, or to take care, you know,
to take full advantage of its potential final subject free Jason,
what do you think of if they do stick with it.

(01:26:11):
It looks like it looks like they're going to a
three way main event at Bound for Glory. I like
one on one matches for the biggest show of the year.
I think WWE has decided, you know, one on one
matches for us Somnia. That's what people remember. That makes
the most sense. The whole three way thing that made
sense with Sabu and Terry Funk and Shane Douglass in ECW,

(01:26:32):
it got overdone and overplayed, and now multi person matches
don't mean a lot. I think the biggest show of
the year should be one on one. That said, if
they're going to choose three people to be in a
main event, probably a good three people to choose. Your thoughts.

Speaker 5 (01:26:45):
It is a good h well two of the three.
I think they just had what should have been their
Bound for Glory main event did No Surrender with Kurt
Angle and Jeff Hardy. Mister Anderson an entertaining character, but
when I think great matches, great and you know, a
show of the year main events, it's not mister Anderson.

(01:27:05):
And so that the fact that he's in there and
they work the pairings to make sure he would be
in there, it tells me that they must have something.
Maybe he's coming. You know, the plan is for him
to come out of this with the TNA title, because
I just don't know else why else you would put
him in that match. It's not like people are clamoring
for it. Again, he's entertaining, and then the whole asshole

(01:27:27):
thing is over to some extent, but it's He's just
not that WrestleMania show, home run hit or guy. And
so I think that they, to their credit, they came
to their senses that they can realize that well, Kurt
angle and and mister Anderson might have an entertaining match,
but it's probably not going to sell a lot of
pay per views. We need to get our number one guy,

(01:27:50):
the most popular guy in this company, Jeff Harvey, into
this match. Not only is he going to make it
a better match, you know, hopefully, but he's also going
to sell pay per views by being in this match.
So I think overall it was a good decision. One
thing I'd really like to see them do wage and
they really haven't addressed it. So I don't know if
to go in this direction or not. Make that an
elimination style match, make it an old school ECW three

(01:28:14):
way dance where it's not just one pinfall where there's
actually two guys pinned in the match. And because I
just think that you need to do something different. Then
if this is your big show of the year, then
you know, have a main event that isn't just another
random three way match where only one guy has to
get in. Makes it seem special.

Speaker 3 (01:28:33):
Yeah, I like I like that idea. I can live
with a three way match. You buy it to see it,
but what you what you really end up promised is
a one on one match that ends it. You know,
you end up with something at the end of the show.
The downside of that, and that's the problem with three
way matches is if somebody really is into and let's
describe two names, Kurt Angle and Miss r Anderson. They
really are intrigued to see those two against each other.

(01:28:53):
If you do a three way and you say it's
elimination style, there's a chance you won't see much of
that at all. You know, there's a chance that that
Miss Raderson would get eliminated in the opening five minutes,
and what you get is more Jeff Hardy and Kurd Angle,
which obviously, for the sake of the example, it's not
a bad idea, but you don't get to focus in
on this is what you're going to see. And I
think that's why the uh, what was the pay per

(01:29:14):
view that bombed with WW the four everything four on
four or the four oh four way fatal four me
thank you? I get that word in my head. The
fatal four way concept didn't work because people weren't able
to focus concretely on I'm going to get to see
John Cena versus Blank. What they got was, well, I
really want to see John scene against this guy, but
there's gonna be these other two guys in there, and
who knows if I'll ever see John scene against this guy.

(01:29:35):
So that's where I just think focus on the singular talent.
So again, if they have a real good reason for
doing a three way and they do stick with it
being a three way, maybe they can make storyline sense
out of it. But ultimately, I think your biggest show
of the year and Bound for Glory they bill is
their biggest show of the year, and they do a
lot to try to make it seem that way. It
needs to be that and you're right, Jeff Hardy Kurt Angle,

(01:29:58):
had they built up to it the right way, could
have been that match and make it feel like that
that ultimate main event of the year.

Speaker 12 (01:30:10):
Longing for some nostalgia or maybe you want to learn
some wrestling history, don't miss the Nineties Past cast every
Friday on the PW Torch Daily Cast Feed. Alex and
Patrick will transport you thirty years into the past by
taking you through the Torch issue from that very week.
Follow news from the WWF and WCW and all the

(01:30:30):
happenings from across the wrestling industry in real time as
The Torch reported it thirty years ago. That's the Nineties
Pass cast every Friday on the PW Torch Daily Cast Feed.

Speaker 5 (01:30:50):
And do you think, I mean, do you assume Angle
is going to win the TNA title because of the
retirement stipulation. You think this has all been leading to
some grand Bennie Ruth erb or Anderson wins, an Angle
gets screwed and Angle takes time off but eventually comes back,
or I just there's there has to be a reason
they have Anderson in this, doesn't there?

Speaker 6 (01:31:10):
Yeah, I mean I.

Speaker 3 (01:31:11):
Guess if it's a three way, doesn't an Angle doesn't,
then doesn't necessarily have to lose.

Speaker 5 (01:31:16):
That's true. Yeah, that to be there out.

Speaker 3 (01:31:17):
And party Angle doesn't retire, So that's one way to go.
I mean, I don't have a strong feeling either way.
I mean I I don't. I wouldn't know who to
put my money on to walk out with the bell.
I don't think that's That's the sad part too, is
that I just don't think it means that. I don't
think it means that much who wins.

Speaker 5 (01:31:33):
And I just pray way that whoever does the before
the before the Glory or before the Bell whatever they
call those specials that they produced, let them handle all
the production, all the promo producing heading into boundary Glory,
because I know they do such a nice job with it.
It feels like a real sport. And then you watch
Impact or even the pay per view. I just wanted

(01:31:57):
to just throw something through my TV when I want
said di'angelo de niro promo leading into that chance or
the semi final match, it was so bad. I did
talk to somebody about that because he had just come
out and said in an interview that he's the one
doing all of his promos. And this person said, no way.
That adventure so written all over it. There's no way

(01:32:18):
de Niro would come out and say those things.

Speaker 3 (01:32:20):
And boy, I mean, if all in this for people
in c Jason, let's get this crush. If T and
A was a hole in the sky and I reached
up and performed in enema, I'd pull out mister Anderson.
I think that was a line, and that wasn't That
was just a slice of the just It was just
it was an unpleasant and unproductive I mean it was
just terrible.

Speaker 5 (01:32:41):
Oh yeah, and then the stinky eight holes part. This
is a semi final match and what should be a
prestigious tournament. It hasn't felt that way anyway, but still,
this is the main event of your pay per view.
You've got a great talker, and that's sadly, I'm beginning
to think that's pretty much, you know all we can
get out Gennaro at this point. There's still room for growth,

(01:33:02):
but I've really been let down on his in ring work.
But you have this great talker, and that's what you
give him. You don't have him put over the tournament.
You don't have him put over the significance of the
title or the value of the title and his quest
to get it. You haven't talked about animas and steaky
a holes.

Speaker 3 (01:33:19):
It was just so bush league. It totally was. It
was a doubt. It was a low point of the
pay per view in a lot of ways, and the
high point from a production standpoint was the fact that
they made me, with what you're talking about the reaction
and the pay per view preview type of production. They
made me almost care about seeing Nash and Sting against
Gherret and Joe because I thought they did a really
nice job with that preview package building up that match.

Speaker 5 (01:33:42):
Yeah, yeah, I guess you know, I'm gonna have to
take your word for it, because when those preview packages
start building, that's usually my cue to go go to
the fridge. Or hit the bathroom or something, So I
don't I don't even recall seeing it.

Speaker 3 (01:33:52):
It was it's worth you probably don't have an MDVR anymore,
but it's worth seeing because it was. It was the
polar opposite of the Pope. They put a lot of
time into it. It was a relatively long feature and
it was exactly you know, it's exactly what you're talking about.
It felt real, It felt sports like. It was like
we caught Kevin Nash. It was like, you know, Jeff
Jarrett is so terrible when he's looking at the camera
going da da da da da aha, you know, in

(01:34:13):
the fake laugh and all that. Yeah, you know, stilted,
scripted stuff. But they actually made Jeff Jarrett seem relevant
and kind of cool in the way that they felt.
It was totally right out of reaction or right out
of even more so one of the paper well or
the pay per view preview show. And then the camera
was following Nash as he was talking to Sting and
it looked like we were just eavesdropping in on what
they were saying, and it it really made the match.

(01:34:34):
It brought the match together better than anything that was
on impact with the other style it's so weird. It's
such TNA feels like like two different philosophies just mixing,
like oil and water, where they just jerk you around
from one segment to the other. And that's what I
mean when Bound for Glory. Just let Bound for Glory
be the end of whatever it is they did in
the last twelve months, all the experimenting, and then let's

(01:34:55):
decide what we're gonna be. Are we gonna be Angelo
de Niro and Stinky this and Enema of that? Or
are we going to be what we saw in the
pay per view with Nash and Joe and Sing and
Jared or what we see on Reaction the better parts
of Reaction where we get this. I mean, Samoa, Joe
is so good when he's not doing a scripted promo,
when they catch him just being Joe, And that's what

(01:35:16):
that segment did. Again, decide choose one or the other.
Quit teasing us with the good stuff, just give us
all bad stuff. At least we know what to expect then,
so just pick a direction and go with it. That's
what I'm hoping.

Speaker 5 (01:35:27):
Yeah, I'd love to see it. I don't know that
unless as long as Vince Russa is there. I just
frankly don't have hope. And the astonishing thing is way
he's a huge sports fan, but he doesn't take any
of the good elements from sports and bring them to TNA.
It's just bad crash TV. Writing that time and time

(01:35:47):
again has been proven unsuccessful. It hasn't worked since the
attitude when he had an editor. But that's what he
just keeps giving us. He will not go back embarrassing
they were. He has all the answers, and even though
the ratings and the buyer right show he doesn't, he
doesn't change.

Speaker 3 (01:36:06):
I know, I know, well, Jason. Enjoy the game tonight, Yeah, really.

Speaker 5 (01:36:11):
Looking forward to and I think I'm about twenty minutes
up from the ballpark, maybe longer with traffic, but really
looking forward to seeing seen it on TV obviously, but
really looking forward to just taking a scroll around the
park and what hopefully will be a Twins blowout victory.

Speaker 3 (01:36:26):
I know, I know, God, the White Sox are I
don't know what's more upsetting the Twins doing so well
and not expanding their leader the what or to be
a White Sox fan and be on the hot streak
that they're on and to not have gained much at
all in the last ten games on the Twins. It's
at least we got an exciting Pennant race here. Every
game counts right now.

Speaker 5 (01:36:44):
Oh yeah, it's been It's been a really fun season.
I mean, you know, I'm not the biggest baseball fan,
but i'd certainly catch a ton of the Twins. I mean,
I love watching the Twins, but it's just not like
the NFL, where I couldn't even tell you who's doing what.
In the National League, it's just, you know, once the
playoffs roll around, then I start paying attention. But this
has been a lot of fun. And as much as
I hate the Chicago White Sox's it really has become

(01:37:07):
a Viking Packer like rivalry with them. Where as much
as that despised them that I'd like to see him
lose every game, at the same time, it's fun that
they're there and making it interesting, a lot more interesting
than it would be if it was even Twins Tigers,
which I just don't have the passionate dislike of the
Tigers like I do for the White Sox.

Speaker 3 (01:37:24):
Although we had that with Cleveland Indians for a while.
I remember feeling that Cleveland was that the old division alignment,
back when Cleveland was really good and we were fighting
to be better than them.

Speaker 5 (01:37:34):
You know what, I think the current division.

Speaker 3 (01:37:39):
We're losing more. We're losing a little bit. Jason. We'll
wrap up on that note. Enjoy the game and go Twins. Yep.
We love Jason cool. All right, Thanks everybody for listening
until next time. On behalf of Jason Paul's cell phone
just gave out and Waite Keeler deciding off.

Speaker 5 (01:37:55):
I am here if you are here, waight, but I
can't hear you saying anything.

Speaker 1 (01:38:15):
Invite you to email the show with feedback or questions
or comments. That email address is Wade Keller Podcast at
ptwtorch dot com. That's Wadekeller Podcast at PW torch dot com.
Also welcome your feedback on Twitter. Even follow us on
Twitter at PW Torch and follow me at the Wade
Keller That's at PW Torch and at the Wade Keller.

Speaker 17 (01:38:38):
Searching for more great pro wrestling talk, then join me
Jason Powell host them the three weekly Pro Wrestling Boom podcast.
Each week you'll hear the latest news and analysis from
me and my team at Pro wrestling dot need along
with other pro wrestling media members, plus the Pro Wrestling
Boom podcast features long form interviews with notable names in
the pro wrestling industry. Subscribe and iTunes, Nitcher, Downcast, and

(01:38:59):
all your favorite secondary apps, or visit us directly at
PW boom dot com. Once again, that's PW boom dot com.

Speaker 1 (01:39:09):
Thanks for listening to our podcast. Did you know we
also have a website, pwtorch dot com. Daily news updates, editorials,
and my live TV coverage covering Raw, Dynamite and SmackDown
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Create a tab or bookmark, make it a daily stop.
Visit us throughout the day every day to keep up
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Speaker 4 (01:39:33):
Meet an extra dose of positivity in your wrestling podcasts.
Will come join me Alan forel Over in the Progress
Paradise at pterbrew Torch VIP as we mask on the
bright side of wrestling and focus on some of the
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(01:39:54):
and the Paradise too. And we've done fun historical shows
such as the We Love Liger series celebrating glorious career
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(01:40:17):
a list of all the VIP benefits is available at
pww torch vipinfo dot com. And yes, all VIP podcasts
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Speaker 1 (01:40:36):
One way that you can help us sustain our schedule
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us a five star rating on Apple Podcasts. Just go
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Speaker 18 (01:41:13):
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ultimately the brand you see today. On the Torch VIP
podcast NXT Eight Years Back, we'll be taking a weekly
look at this page.

Speaker 16 (01:41:26):
In NXT's early history. Join Kelly Wells and me Tom
Stout from PWT Talks NXT every Saturday as we go
eight years back to the day to track NXT's rising
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A PW Torch VIP membership doesn't just give you ad
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(01:42:27):
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