15 YRS AGO LIVECASTS: Analysis of TNA's ECW-themed PPV and all that went wrong, Angle's criticism of Cena movie, Parade of Champions history

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 2 (01:06):
Now, PW Torch and Spreaker bring you the Wade Keller
Pro Wrestling Podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:15):
Today on the Way Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast, we jumped
back to a doubleheader of PWD Torch live cast from
fifteen years ago. First up, James Caldwell was joined by
Brian Hoops, our PW Torch nostalgia specialist, to talk about
TNA's ECW themed pay per view and whether anything would
come of it, WWE's two potential courses of action, TNA
throwing everything against the wall, Rick Flair reduced to a cartoon,

(01:38):
and whether the audience will even order the event. Also
a caller with direct correspondens a Curt Angle on set
at Beyond the Mat, the origin of Angle's comments critical
of John Cena's movie, and where Engle could end up
at the end of his career, and more. And then
in the previously VP exclusive after show, they discussed the
NWA Legends FanFest that weekend, the history of Preda champions
that brand of special stadium shows, and World Class Championship Wrestling,

(02:01):
how the demise of World Classes Big Cards relates to
current wrestling pay perviews fifteen years ago, and more. And
then the second episode from August ninth, twenty ten, features
James Caldwell with Greg Parks talking about the previous night's
Hardcore Justice pay per view and in depth review of
everything that went wrong with the show, what worked and
who from the ECW originals could be utilized by TNA

(02:22):
going forward, and why the pay per view captured everything
that was wrong with TNA at that time. Plus a
preview and predictions on Monday's Raw looking ahead to how
they would fill out Team Sena for Summer Slam. Plus
analysis of a new angle that TNA filmed at their
tapings setting the stage for the post hardcore Justice Lay the.

Speaker 3 (02:38):
Land So Again.

Speaker 1 (02:39):
These aired originally just over fifteen years ago this week,
and it is today's Way Keller Progressling Podcast. Fifteen years
ago Flashback of our live casts, four Thursday August fourteenth,
twenty twenty five.

Speaker 3 (02:52):
You're listening to the P to B Tors live cast.
This is pter B Torts Assistant editor James Caldwell posting
on Friday August. This is six and I'm joined by
P t B Torch Nostalgia Columbent's Brian Hoops. Brian, how
are you doing today?

Speaker 4 (03:07):
How are you doing today?

Speaker 3 (03:08):
James doing good? Just got off the road back from
Memphis and I have ten topics written down to talk
about today. Uh. We've quite a busy Friday to say
the least, with some big news in the last In
the last four or five hours plus a big pay
per view on Sunday, plants to end up a legend

(03:28):
stan Fest plus plus plus so plus an impact show
last night, which you know I was gonna say, I
was gonna threaten the callers with the listeners that if
they don't call in, we're gonna go through every single
segment the last night's Impact and try to make sure
it makes sense of the entire show. So that that
was my Yeah, those have big threat if if you're listening,

(03:49):
if you want us to try to make sense of
the entire show, going segment segment by segment, they don't
call in, But since we don't want to do that,
we do want you to call in. We want to
take your calls on w T and a a lot
of stuff going on. We're going to give out the
number six four, six, seven, two, one nine eight to eight. Uh,
But I guess we should start with some some breaking news.

(04:11):
In the last half hour, we just posted this news
story on Jerry mcgibbett, the WW attorney, addressing uh TNA's
ECW seems hardcore justice pay per view, and he sent
a quote to Alfonso Castillo News Day and basically said,
you know, TNA's pay per view is on our radar.

(04:32):
And I'll go ahead and read his entire quote, a
little two sentence quote that he sent out. He said,
WWE is the sole owner of the marks and is
with all of the and as with all of W's
intellectual property, it will be vigorously protected. TNA acts at
its at its peril if it's infringes, if mcdevid haads

(04:56):
some Grammary she's if it infringes upon W these rights. So, Brian,
what do you make of what liked sense and the
fact that WB is sort of you know, informally they're
not making a formal acknowledgment of TNAA, but at least
somewhat acknowledging TNA in two days before their hardcore Justice
pay perview. What do you make of it?

Speaker 4 (05:18):
Well, you know, I think he and A and you
and I have talked about this last couple of weeks.
They've been skirting the line with you know, they're flirting
here with with inviting the lotsit almost trying to get
some attention. It really may come to backfire on TNA
this time. Worst case sereo here they're served with an
injunction before the pay per view and not allowed to

(05:38):
go through the pay per view using the trademark copyrighted
names and likenesses and things that they've been trying.

Speaker 3 (05:47):
To get away with.

Speaker 5 (05:47):
You know.

Speaker 4 (05:47):
For example, they've been pretty blatant it last week anyway
about using the name Buda when referring to Ray Dudley,
you know, and that's a copyrighted name.

Speaker 5 (05:57):
And you know, they're, like I said, they've been flirting
with that issue and worst case sereo.

Speaker 4 (06:03):
WW, you know, puts an injunction against this pay per
view and they have to make some last minute changes
and scramble to this pay per view event. But you know,
they they've kind of brought this on themselves.

Speaker 5 (06:15):
You know, I don't feel sorry for.

Speaker 4 (06:17):
Him, and this is what they wanted. They wanted a
little attention, and looks like they may end up hitting it.

Speaker 3 (06:22):
I would be surprised if WW does anything legally this
weekend before the pay per view. I just I don't
get the sense that TNA is that big of a
threat in their eyes where they would feel the need
to go ahead and go through some legal issue and
perhaps drag out, drag out any legal issue and to
the costs of w B in a legal department. But

(06:44):
at the same time, and this is kind of that
brought up too. Well, let's say that is kind of
allowed to skirt here and WW does not acknowledge or
or or make any sort of legal, formal legal acknowledgement.
That kind of opens the door for a lot of
other promoters to say, hey, well, TNA got away with it,
and they didn't use the letter. They've actually used the
letters ECW on the air to make it seem like,

(07:07):
I mean to the to a casual viewer, that WW
might be endorsed in his pay per view. So if
I'm an independent promoter and I'd say, well, then this
TNA was able to do this, so why can't I
do this? And it kind of opens the doors. So
it's a matter of two things here. Is WW want
to acknowledge TNA more than just when mcdevin said more
is the bigger issue sort of cutting off any uh,

(07:30):
you know, let's say opening of the flood gates for
a lot of independent promoters to say, oh, I can
make some money off of the TCW thing. So it's
a matter of which to which two options is the
best for w W, And they're in their view and
their eyes legally, and it's gonna be interesting to see
which of those two sort of paths they take and

(07:51):
if wd does, like like you said, Ryan have an
or you know, sort of file an injunction against TNA
hight before the pay per view that payer view shot,
you know, and that's going to be a big issue
for TNA. So it's interesting this week and how it's
going to play out.

Speaker 5 (08:09):
Well, if you.

Speaker 4 (08:09):
Look back, I think it was in two thousand and five,
Shane Douglas ran a hardcore reunion and tried to use
a lot of the same name and talent, and they
went after him pretty hard for violating the copyright laws.
And so you know, there's an example of a small
independent promotion that WWE didn't just let skirt around the issue.
And you know, I don't think they'll spend a lot

(08:31):
of money a lot of time on it, because the
worst thing that would happen to WWE worse than TNA
drawing ten thousand pay per view buys instead of eight
thousand this weekend, worst thing would be is to you know,
go to court and end up losing to TNA over
something like this. So I think not that they would,
but that would be, you know, certainly an embarrassment to
WWE that they really can't afford an embarrassment at this point.

(08:54):
But they certainly can't afford to have TNA, you know,
have a ten or twelve thousand pay per view events,
right and you.

Speaker 3 (09:01):
Know, thether devis already had a rough enough week with
their stock report yesterday, it was that their financial report
was I mean, I cover every single one of these reports,
and I can't remember the last time it was just
this is a poor, bad quarter. And you know, go
to be acknowledged that McMahon called it a lousy quarter.
Probably went to their worst performing quarters probably in four

(09:24):
or five years back when they realized that they needed
to make some changes, and they had some pretty consistently
good quarters since then. This one's quarter, I mean, they
blamed it on m I mean, I'm sorry Michael's retiring
and Fatissa's hiatus, and Triple Ah's injury and seeing Punk's
injury and on and on down the list. I just

(09:45):
think it's a matter of the they got caught. They
got caught where they weren't promoting new talent, so they
kind of had those two things together. Do they want
it like you said, right, do they want to go
pursue legal action have to be shot down and then
have that sort of egg on their face and go
with over poor quarter. And that's gonna be the biggest
issue out of this is what measure they take if
any like I said, perhaps they don't see a TNA

(10:08):
as at begum of threats where they need to acknowledge
in any legal fashion TNA's pay review. So let's see.
Very interesting there. Ran Before we can jumping in the calls,
just your quick impressions of last night's Impact is gonna
set the table if the callers want to call in
discuss TNA and the show last night. Wad Keller Torch

(10:29):
Edder just posted his Impact review and for VAC members
a VIP hotline twenty two minutes breaking down the entire
show from top to bottom and overall, so VAC members
can listen to that tonight as well. Brian, what's your
what's your quick impressions of last night's show? Both hyping
the Big Impact special next Thursday as well as hyping

(10:51):
the hardcore justice takeer view on Sunday, You feel.

Speaker 4 (10:55):
Is another TV show similar to what we talked about
last week. Absolutely no logic, no booking, common sense whatsoever.
Another cluster of the show, just everything ram together.

Speaker 3 (11:07):
I think I.

Speaker 4 (11:07):
Added up Wade's recap of the show, and I think
he had twenty five minutes of the actual wrestling action
versus about eighty eight TV minutes, so he just very
light on the wrestling. There wasn't anything good that came
out of the show that I didn't think.

Speaker 5 (11:22):
You know, the one thing that.

Speaker 4 (11:24):
Really struck me was they really hyped up their free
TV show special next week on August twelfth, and barely
hyped up this upcoming pay per view where they actually
could make a little bit of money if they had
a good pay per view event and good drawing. And
they just very very poor job of build for the
event other than you know, saying, you know, we're bringing

(11:46):
in the old hardcore ECW guys, come watch them in
the ring, and you know, that's that's basically what they did,
and no matches being hype. I think they got two
matches hyped. Very poor build for Jared.

Speaker 5 (12:00):
Lynn and Rob van Dam.

Speaker 4 (12:02):
Just the more I watched the last two week shows,
the less excited I would be if I was just
gonna watch this pay per view event this weekend.

Speaker 3 (12:11):
Well then they try to kind of close it with
that feel good moment with Sandman coming back. But I mean,
I mean Sandman he was never in shape during his career,
but you look at him now it's five times worse.
And just it's just when you see those these sevy
guys in the ring and you just realize, realistically, these
guys aren't in good shape. So what am I gonna

(12:33):
spend my money on? Am I gonna spend my money
on bells and whistles and you know, some some garbage
brawls and some weapon shots and some ball shots just
to be blunt with what we're gonna see on Sunday.
Some over the hill, further over the hill wrestlers who
you know, weren't the best workers to begin with, but

(12:53):
they had Paul Hayman to accentuate the strength and hide
the weaknesses. Now have TNA, which is exposing the weakness.
Is class in TNA booking. What I mean, are you
gonna spend your money on that? Or are you gonna
you know, bought in drafts watching DV and E or
watch uh, you know, watching all the ECW T or
watch the One Night Stand from two thousand and five,

(13:14):
or you know, don't spend any money and don't invest
any time in ECW and wait for the Freeing TV
special next Thursday and based on that presentation last night
and save your money money. That was yeah, that was
the I don't think DNA meant to send that message,
but they sure did.

Speaker 5 (13:33):
You know, James.

Speaker 4 (13:34):
Historically pay per views that have had one or two
matches hyped and everything else, the viewer didn't know ahead
of time what was going to be wrestling, such as
the old King of the Ring pay per view events.
That's why does ww have to drop those is because
you knew one match, maybe two matches going in ahead
of time, the wrestler is gonna be a tournament and
the fans could never get their hands around who was wrestling?

(13:56):
Who should I buy?

Speaker 6 (13:58):
This?

Speaker 5 (13:58):
Should I mostly the most invest into it?

Speaker 4 (14:01):
And that's why WWF dropped those because they did so poorly.
Nineteen ninety one Battle Ble was the same type situation,
no matches announced ahead of time, just random drawings to
see who wrestled who did a very poor by rate.
Early UFC was kind of that tournament style, and that's
why they struggled to do some decent pay per view

(14:21):
numbers back in ninety three and ninety four, so they've
only announced two matches for this. I thought when they
first announced it, nostalgia would win out and you get
a pretty good numbers off of this off this name,
and if they did it right, I think they've done
it really poorly. I don't really think you're going to
see a very good y rate for this pay per view.

Speaker 1 (14:42):
You can support us on Patreon and get these shows
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(15:04):
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Speaker 3 (15:13):
And I don't get the sense that TNA is able
to reach that audience, that that hardcore ECW audience, that
whatever remaining aspect of that audience is still out there
for one reason, the awareness. They just they don't have
awareness on a large scale, nowhere near W's level. And
you know, they just haven't been able to build awareness
even with Paul Coogan and Rick Flair and Jeff Hardy

(15:35):
and misreners in and on on demo list this year.
Plus you have the promotional aspect, it's TNA and even
kind of Tommy Dreamer talked about this in an interview
earlier this week that they would have liked to have
run it in sort of a traditional East arena hammer
sign ballroom, you know in New York or Philadelphia, THEASW arena,
but they didn't have that, so they promoting an ECW

(15:56):
pay per view kind of packed into the impacts on
which you know, being being there live last last month
feels like a carbon copy of a xerox of another
carbon copy of an attempt at an EASTW style arena
or an East style setting. And it's not cool, you know,
but to put an East patent do in the impact zone.

(16:18):
You can dress enough, change the set, change the lighting,
put some new posters, put a fresh coat of paint
on there, it's still the impact zone.

Speaker 7 (16:25):
It's not cool.

Speaker 3 (16:27):
So they have that working against them. I just you know,
they can't reach the audience and the audience that that
might be interested just by looking at the same this
isn't very cool, you know, it's not it's maybe it's
not worth my money. And the talent, like you said, Brian,
the matches announce the talent, and now it's yeah, maybe
I've seen it before, you know, So there's a lot
of things going against it. And not having a card

(16:50):
or like you said, a sense of what we're gonna see.
You know, that's gonna hurt the pay per view at
least in my estimation. So let's still I know, let's
scraped them. Did you have at the top of photographs
one calls by.

Speaker 4 (17:03):
No, I was just gonna say, I agree with you.
I I don't see anybody really going out of the
way to buy this. Uh, this event, it just there's
no real talk about it with the wrestling fans that
I talk with. Nobody's really interested. And uh, they certainly
hyped up next Thursday's TNA show, UH, much better than
what they did for this this event, And it really

(17:24):
seemed like the main focus of you if you're gonna
watch one of the two shows, you'd watch next Thursday's Impact,
because that is expected to be a much better card
on free is Eric Bishoff emphasized, And I was a
little surprised that they didn't mention at all the T
and A Reaction show that's supposed to be on after
Impact next week.

Speaker 5 (17:40):
Either that's true.

Speaker 3 (17:42):
I guess perhaps they they think that they've been out
it's enough already and they can kind of tell the
audience after at the end of Impact. Oh, by the way,
we have this show coming up next, so stay tuned.
So I guess, you know, one of those things where
they don't want to throw too much of the audience
as if they don't know. But uh, I'm sure. I'm
sure they'll hide it next week. But what if that

(18:03):
makes a difference in the initial rating we'll see? Go ahead, well,
really well to give up the phone numbers going to
jump on the cold lines. Give us a call to
our w E T n A Legends fan fests this weekend.
Anything else on your mind wrestling related. The number to
call is six four six seven two one nine eight
two eight. Let's go to our first caller today. This

(18:24):
is the nine eight five area code nine eight five.
Welcome to the show. Please stay your name where you're from?

Speaker 8 (18:30):
Thank on, it's Cody from Tivida.

Speaker 7 (18:31):
What's going on?

Speaker 3 (18:33):
How much Cody? How are you doing? I'm doing. I'm
doing all right.

Speaker 8 (18:37):
You know, it's not too bad. But I got a
couple of things. The first, I wanted to chime in
on what you are talking about earlier about the w
W E TNA. Honestly, I'm not surprised to hear that
that that the w W is is, you know, claiming
the filing injunction, and I'm not really surprised that w
W stockets. I mean the quarterly ratings drop for w

(18:57):
w E because quite frankly, both companies act are really
I mean, TNA is lacking for not really putting emphasis
on on their stars, which you know, it's really ridiculous,
and also w W is lacking because they don't even
have much substance. I mean, the only thing that's really
entertaining on the in WW right now is the NEXTUS storyline,
and obvious, quite obviously, I'm actually surprised at this, or

(19:18):
even not surprised at this, but it's actually the uh
in terms of you know, the the guys on the
NEXTUS side, you know, Wade Barrett and and uh, Michael
Tarkan all those guys that it's not really I mean,
they're not really doing anything wrong. It's the other guys
that are doing everything wrong, you know. But uh, I mean,
quite honestly, I'm just not surprised. I mean, for example,
you know the uh, you know, the team going against

(19:41):
the Nexus calling themselves Team WWE Right, quite honestly, that's
a fallacy because they haven't even appeared on Snackdown yet?
I mean, what do you think of that? And quite honestly,
you know, my question to you right now is you know,
what are your thoughts on that? And you know, do
you really think they should have gone the Snackdown after
they're doing wrong in the first place?

Speaker 3 (20:00):
Good question. I think what if, Brian, I'll throw this
to you in a second. I think the team wde
Moniker is kind of part of their effort to make
it see him, my Nexus is trying to take down
the company, and so John Cena is representing WEE even
though he only has four raw guys on his team
right now, and the storyline, they're trying to present the

(20:23):
idea that if Nexus beats you know, John Cena's team
at SummerSlam, then all of WB is affected, even if
you're on SmackDown or if you're just in n XTO Rookie.
So I think that's part of their marketing. It is
a bit of a stretch. Just I agree with you
on that. Brian, what's your take on whether or first
of all, what Cody was saying about kind of the

(20:44):
state of w right now in terms of not really
having much going for them until this NEXTUS storyline started,
and should Nexus them been on SmackDown at least on
an infrequent basis to make it seem like, yes, they
are going after the entire company.

Speaker 4 (21:01):
Well, you know, first of all, I think you're right
that they're having a down quarter here, and it was
pretty much as I don't think it was totally unexpected.
You know, you come off of WrestleMania and you do Louise, Shawn,
Michaels and the Undertaker and Batist, loose some of your
big stars and you're kind of left with the void
there and they're going to have to have some time
period where they build up those new stars.

Speaker 5 (21:22):
And create these stars.

Speaker 4 (21:24):
And I think they're doing something's right there with Maxas
and as the caller mentioned, that's the one angle that's
got him with the most interest in It's because there
is some fresh new talent there that they're building up
and building program around, and so I think that's, you know,
kind of a springboard to launching better times ahead.

Speaker 5 (21:41):
Is you're going to have a period where you're.

Speaker 4 (21:43):
Gonna have decline and ratings and buy rates while you
build those stars. You know, it's like a major league
baseball team that ends up bringing up the guys above
from the miners. You go through a couple of years
or seasons where there's hard times until these guys become
acclimated and become good enough to.

Speaker 5 (21:58):
Play at a major league level.

Speaker 4 (22:00):
And very similar structure here. Without that territory system for
guys to be brought up from and hit the ground running,
there's gonna be ups and downs in the markets, and
consequently up and down.

Speaker 5 (22:13):
In in WWE.

Speaker 4 (22:15):
You know, I don't I don't mind it Nexus didn't
go to SmackDown because if they're just gonna face wrestlers
from Raw, and it could actually be termed as a
Nexus versus Raw promotional angle here, and I wonder if
they kind of kept them off the SmackDown and because
they haven't figured out exactly where they're gonna go with
the season two Nexus group yet. It maybe they're gonna

(22:36):
go to SmackDown and and invade some of that, or
I just don't think they have any idea where they're
going or who's gonna come out of that, and and
or any plans for the long term here. But you know,
that's that's the one thing I think they've They've done
a decent job of building, but otherike, you haven't. You
haven't really pushed and gotten over some of the younger
talent like you want to. Seamus has been a good fit.

(22:58):
I think they did a really poor jobs with Jack
Swagger whose title run in trying to get him over.
They really booked him poorly as a champion.

Speaker 3 (23:07):
Yeah, I agree with you on that Cody had given
either a question or follow up.

Speaker 8 (23:13):
I mean, another thing that's really, really, really really got
gotten on my nerves is, you know, is all the
jobs that they're doing on on NXT in terms of
other and you know of other superstars.

Speaker 9 (23:24):
You know, of course you had.

Speaker 8 (23:26):
Daniel Bryant in season one and then you got caval
in season two. I don't know we I mean, Haskeball
actually won a match in in season two of NX Team.

Speaker 3 (23:33):
I think that one one or two victories.

Speaker 8 (23:37):
Yeah, I mean it's I mean you can see how,
you know. I mean I don't understand, like, what, what
is what's the logic in booking them to where they
lose so many matches they really ever win few and
and the ones that they either do win or do lose,
they give them a whole lot of offense. But then
at the end and then at the end, just you know,
it's it's not really I mean, I don't totally get

(23:58):
this whole sympathetic face and the kind of deal. You know,
I think that he's you know, if the guy's really good,
you start booking him to where he's really good. I
mean that makes sense, doesn't it.

Speaker 3 (24:12):
Yeah, And they kind of do that with Joe Henning.
They had him on that perfect streak pun. I think
the pun was intended. They hadim on the perfect streak
and that was sort of his his sort of I
don't know, Moniker calling card or whatever. Kaval's sort of
in that sympathetic figure. You know, I agree with you
to a certain extent code that it doesn't make a
whole lot of sense to present someone as a jobb

(24:33):
or when you're first introducing that person on TV. But uh,
and I mean it's so NXT is so off the
radar in certain weeks, you know, especially in w Land
and also just in TV Land, that is a major
portion that audience could remember, Oh yeah, Caval, he kind
of yeah, you lost a bunch of those matches on

(24:55):
that show that had those weird kissing contests and that
those silly angles, and you know, it's kind of a
silly show. Do I really take it seriously? You know?
So that's that's a factor in play. But like you said,
I don't really agree with the way they present a
Kaval at certain points. So they've been able to get
his offense over, but like you said, doesn't really help
him to be losing all these matches. But Brian, what's

(25:18):
your take on what Cody is talking about with NXT
and and just the way they present a Kval and
some of the other rookies so far.

Speaker 4 (25:27):
You know, But he's exactly right, he thinks, like I do,
you know, when if and losses should mean something they
do in every other sport, and so why shouldn't they
control wrestling in twenty ten? But just the mentality of
the guy's running WWE and running TNA. Wins losses don't matter.
And that's why we don't have the big stars in
WW or TNA like we used to. You know, Sean

(25:48):
Michaels is a big star, but he's had a lot
of big wins over his career. Same thing with the Undertakers,
same thing with Triple H and any of your big stars.
That's how you become a big stars.

Speaker 5 (25:57):
You win matches. Unfortunately, we of an.

Speaker 4 (26:00):
Even Stephen fifty to fifty booking mentality right now that
you know, we can job out Brent Daniel Bryanson, we
can job out Caval and nobody will care, nobody will remember,
and it doesn't mean anything because you know, if we
do something later on a skid or some type of
an angle, everybody will forget about it and they'll be
a star again. And I'm just really in the mentality

(26:22):
that wins and loss is needing something. You know, Brett
Farva is a star because he will he who's a
winner throughout his career, and the same thing with Dayton Manning.
He's been a winner in his entire career. He's a star,
and that's who you can build your franchise around and
people pay money to see and buy jerseys.

Speaker 5 (26:38):
If you want to do that.

Speaker 4 (26:39):
As pro wrestling, you want to sell merchandise. You want
to you know, build your stars and your talent. You're
going to have to elevate some guys and make them
stars that wins and losses do matter. John Cena is.

Speaker 5 (26:51):
The best wrestler.

Speaker 4 (26:52):
You should buy his T shirt whatever you want to say,
because he doesn't lose.

Speaker 5 (26:56):
He's a top guy in the company.

Speaker 4 (26:58):
And if somebody actually does meeting get elevates them automatically.

Speaker 3 (27:03):
Seamus being an example of that. You know, Seamus, It
was sort of the big endorsement for Seamus was when
he beats Seen It for the title at the tlc
A pay per view in December. Yeah, I was, you know,
putting somebody through a table, but it made Seamus the star.
Plus carrying that belt, plus the Triple H feud, plus
you know taking out Triple H, plus retaining the title

(27:23):
over Johnsen or taking the title from scenes. So right,
that's say, you make big stars and you know when
the way you introduce them on NXC oftentimes you know
you kind of cut the legs, the legs out from
under them before they can even get running. So I
hope to see this that NXC is scrapped or they
completely redo it next next season. If there is a
next season, which you know, unless they find another taker,

(27:48):
I don't think Sci Fi is gonna keep it on.
So who knows. This might be the last season in
the NXC. They didn't talk about it during the conference
call yesterday. They didn't make mention of anything related to
the future team other than that network probably for twenty eleven.
But I don't see Sci Fi having that. I mean,
I'm sorry, I don't see NXC having a third season.

(28:08):
And if they do, they need to redo it and
rethink it and revamp it and do something different with it.
And it just doesn't work on the whole. But Cody,
good call. We appreciate that. We're gonna go ahead and
get grab some more calls. Let's go to the seven
seven eight area code seven to seven eight. Welcome to
the show. Please say you where you're from.

Speaker 10 (28:27):
Hey, this is Jason from Vancouver.

Speaker 3 (28:29):
Hey, Jason, what do you have for a say?

Speaker 10 (28:32):
I wanted to talk about impact. A couple of things
that bothered me. Number one was in the It's knock
Got Pac team match with Lacy von Eric. It was
so painful to watch her in the ring. She's just
so awkward and yeah, you know she can't.

Speaker 11 (28:48):
She just seems so lost, you know.

Speaker 3 (28:50):
And I really noticed it yesterday and it.

Speaker 10 (28:53):
Reminded me of of a novel to watching the whole
Comedia tour when she was Rick Flair's man as You're
down in Australia and Hogan did his little spot of
how he you know, atomic dropped the women, and he
did it to her and instead of selling it what
she should have told that, she was selling her shoulder.
But yeah, it just looks so awkward, you know, and

(29:15):
it's something somebody in that company. I don't understand why
they have her in the ring.

Speaker 3 (29:19):
It looks just so terrible, even her backstage acting when
when they'll have those those segments backstage and she just
doesn't seem like she has any sort of camera presence
at all. I just think it's it's I mean, look
at the changes to the Knockout Division in twenty ten.
Odd is gone, Austin Kong is gone, you know, gel

(29:41):
Camb's gone before that, but look who's left. It's it's
pretty much the pretty girls, and that's sort of been
the mentality is to retain the eye candy and get
rid of the wrestlers. And that's why she's still there
because she can't wrestle and she has no presence on TV.
So and that's just kind of where it is. And
they don't take that rustling product seriously enough to say,

(30:04):
wait a second, this is kind of looking bad if
this person can't work and we're putting on a featured
match on TV. But because they don't think that product,
so that Russian product means anything to the general audience.
The thing is just a means to an end of
promoting some sort of silly storyline or angle. Then it's
not a big deal to them. The big deal to
them today We've got a pretty girl on TV. That's

(30:25):
the biggest deal here. That's your big headline story, not
how bad.

Speaker 7 (30:29):
In the race he is.

Speaker 12 (30:31):
Need an extra dose of positivity in your wrestling podcasts.
Will come join me Alan fourrel Over in the Progress
Paradise at Peterwoo Torch VIP as we mask on the
bright side of wrestling and focus on some of the
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(30:52):
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(31:14):
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the Paradise, good right?

Speaker 3 (31:38):
You know what?

Speaker 4 (31:40):
Well, yeah, I think you're absolutely right, James. They have
tried to copy what the WWE is as they've hired
a good looking cover type models and try and teach
them the wrestle and most of the time it's been unsuccessful.
But you know a couple of years ago when they
had bil Kim and ODB and awesome con They had
a pretty good knockout division and at that time was

(32:01):
garnering the best ratings of the entire TNA program, and
that was because they had women in there that could
actually wrestle, and some of them look good, and they
were out pacing what the w W was doing and
out delivering them and setting themselves apart. And they have
failed to do that. They're they're right back to doing
what they're doing with the Men's division w W Life,
bringing in some of the former w W characters and

(32:24):
cast offs, and you know, obviously it isn't working, So
why keep doing this?

Speaker 3 (32:31):
Jason is giving her a question or follow up.

Speaker 10 (32:34):
Yeah, but the thing with Lacy, it's so hard watching
and you know what, he's gonna end up hurting yourself
for hurting someone else too, because yeah, it was it
was really really bad to watch. And like I said,
I'm a whole camaniatur you know, selling your shoulder in
the movie. It's supposed to be selling your posterior. It
does not, you know, it does not look good. And
then other thing I want to talk about too was
Rick Flair and and how he's fallen, you know, for

(32:57):
for a guy that was considered to be the greatest
at one time at his sport. For him to be
out there and likeing Task called it his Walmart underwear yesterday.

Speaker 5 (33:08):
You know that's really sad.

Speaker 10 (33:09):
You know up here we're big hockey fans in Canada.
If I saw, you know, Wayne Dretzky, Mamiel Demieue, Bobby
Orr doing something that stupid, it would be embarrassing. And
I know this is pro wrestling, but for a guy
that was considered to be the greatest at one time
to be what he was doing yesterday is honestly at
the flop in the face.

Speaker 3 (33:26):
Brian, Yeah, what's your reaction to what you saw with
Flair last night? Oh?

Speaker 5 (33:30):
I thought it was just just embarrassing that.

Speaker 13 (33:32):
You know.

Speaker 4 (33:33):
My first reaction was we had the potential breakout star
in Jay Lethal. A couple weeks ago we talked about
how he was setting himself apart from a lot of
the roster, elevating himself with his promos. You know, he
wasn't copying Rick Flair, but he was.

Speaker 5 (33:48):
He was kind of imitating him and being.

Speaker 4 (33:50):
Entertaining and being funny and could wrestle in the ring.
And since he beat Flair at the last pay per view.

Speaker 5 (33:57):
What have they done with him?

Speaker 4 (33:58):
Well, he lost a Match of the Week or two
weeks ago. I don't even remember. He's lost Rick Flair.
Now they haven't followed up with anything for him whatsoever.
It's like, you know, he got his win over Player
and that was it. And they did this one other
time with Leithlo when he got a win.

Speaker 5 (34:13):
Over Kurt Angle.

Speaker 4 (34:14):
They dropped the ball and he just never elevated. He
just stayed right in the same spot. And it was
due to the booking, and this was the same thing.
It's due to the booking here. It's just real poor
job of elevating any of your talent. You had a
chance to make Jay Lethal into a guy that could
challenge Rob van Dam for the title and be a
homegrown type talent and a pay per view draw, and

(34:37):
they really dropped the ball here. I thought it was
just embarrassing last night. You know, like what the callers said,
if he saw Wing Gritzky doing the same type of thing,
it'd just be embarrassing to your sport. And you know,
if you were watching the program last night with somebody
who wasn't a wrestling fan, he would just be totally,
totally embarrassed to watch that program with Flair and you know,

(35:00):
it's just it just sad wrestling showing a sad segment
last night.

Speaker 3 (35:06):
Yeah, it's a promotion that I'll throw it back to you. Jason. Second,
I think that it's promotion that it's just they just
don't take it seriously. Look at the Theiric Young match
last week. He's in the ring of the mannequin that
they're back to doing that stick. And then you have Flair,
who you know Players, he's gonna go along with it.
He's you know, he's at the point where he says,
you know what, I just want to be among the

(35:28):
wrestlers and whatever you want me to do on TV,
I'll do it. And then you have Eric Fischhoff and
and Vince Russo back there, and I mean, look at
the history with them and Player. It's to not really
take advantage of Player's strengths, it's to kind of exploit
his I mean the word is comedic side is sort
of self. Uh, I mean just just sort of mocking himself,

(35:51):
sort of comedy that he that he did in w CW,
and that's what we're getting from him in TNA. And
it's just it's a waste of talent. It's a waste
of what he would be doing for Jay Lethal. Exactly
what you said, Brian Lethal is at the exact same
level he was before the program. The player started it.
It starts top, it's up down, and nobody gets over. Jason,

(36:12):
what was your your follo up or another question?

Speaker 10 (36:15):
Yeah, I gotta follow up in a question now the
follow up on that is. I mean, like that was
the point I was making about the hockey players.

Speaker 3 (36:20):
I imagine, you know, I'm a rough.

Speaker 10 (36:22):
I've been watching it for twenty five years, and imagine
me showing some guy that's never watched it for some
younger kids that that guy in the food delions used
to be the greatest of all time at one time,
and you can't do it, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (36:34):
Yeah, exactly. I mean it's it's sort of like, you know,
it would be one thing of Brett Farver would to
come back and embarrass himself on the field, But he
came back last season, had one of his best career seasons.
So yeah, come back. You know you're not embarrassing yourself.
Player is now he came back to TNA. He wanted
to get back into wrestling. He's embarrassing himself, you know.

(36:56):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 13 (36:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 10 (36:58):
One other comment I had to make was when they
did the whole Nash and Sting and enough things got
the Red States paint will leave a wolf pack like
you know, it's just Jarrett, all three of those guys.
I mean, no one cares about him anymore. And I
don't know why they're even in the company. You know,
I was a fan of Nash at one time. These

(37:19):
guys are done. You know, they're probably getting paid the
most out of anybody there. If Dixie's smart, you know what,
You've already gone the best that you can out of
these guys.

Speaker 3 (37:27):
Just just let them go.

Speaker 10 (37:28):
We don't need them anymore.

Speaker 4 (37:30):
Well, it looks like to me we've moved out of
nineteen ninety seven into ninety eight.

Speaker 5 (37:35):
Wasn't that the Red and Black wolf Pack.

Speaker 3 (37:40):
Extends.

Speaker 4 (37:40):
Yeah, well yeah, listen, another six months will be in
ninety nine, and were reliving those rotten angles in that time.
You're absolutely right, this is just a just a disgrace.
Why bring back Hall or Sting and Nash and and
all these guys.

Speaker 5 (37:56):
I mean, let's let's move on. Why are we wasting time?
I mean, look, at your segments.

Speaker 4 (38:00):
Last night we devoted time to Bishop and Nash and
Pogan and this Flare segment. You know, it's time to
promote a pay per view and do it the.

Speaker 5 (38:09):
Right way and and move on from from these nostalgia acts.

Speaker 4 (38:13):
You know, I thought a week ago Flair did an
okay job helping elevate some of the fortune guys and
then giving them a little bit of a star rup
And then they bumbled that by having Calvs the newest
one of the newest members getting squashed in lessons thirty seconds.

Speaker 3 (38:28):
You know, so that was that was a waste.

Speaker 5 (38:30):
Here, we're wasting more time. You know, if you think
of of of business.

Speaker 4 (38:34):
Here their greatest assent of these two hours of advertizing
on Spike, and they're wasting it by by showing the
Sting and Nash and all these guys, uh reuniting, No
like you call her said, nobody cares. Let's let's move
on and let's elevate Jay Leethol And if we're going
to do the reunion of the Four Horsemen with some
new guys, let's let's push those and see where we're

(38:57):
try something new and see where we go with that.

Speaker 3 (39:00):
Yeah, last night's show should have been dedicated to three things.
One was lurgacity, machine guns and beer money in that match.
I mean, that's that's the that's their their pop match.
I mean, that is their feud right now, and that
should have been thirty minutes of TV time devoted just
that match. You can do the match video package on
the first three matches plus the pay per view match,

(39:20):
so for four matches, or the material plus a promo
plus after the show. I mean, I'm sorry, after the
match sort of reaction, maybe a promo maybe, you know,
the machine guns are kind of celebrating them back, and
they they announced what the stipulation will be for the
fifth match in the series. That's thirty minutes. And then
you have the hype to the pay per view, and
you had to hype for the Impact special that shows

(39:41):
in the entire show right there. Three second, three main,
three main things right there. Instead, like he said, I mean,
they had the Nash, the Nash Jarrett thing. You had
the Knockouts tag title. Well, i mean, where where did
they even come from? I mean, they haven't utilize those
Belta in months. It's just it's such an inefficient use
of time. It's amazing. It's the same mistakes over and

(40:03):
over again.

Speaker 5 (40:05):
James, James, let me.

Speaker 4 (40:06):
I'll want to make one point and think about this
is UFC has a pay per view event this weekend,
and their sole way to promote it is either through
ads they run on Spiker or ESPN or other channels,
or this Countdown special that they've had a couple times
this week, and it's the same one one hour of
programming featuring the top four matches that they have, and
they spend forty thirty five to forty minutes on Cale

(40:29):
Sunen and Anderson Silva. They hype that up why they're fighting,
and do some promos and you know they're not going
to They didn't do a one point oh by right,
it was less than that for this countdown show. But
the conversion of those people that watched that show to
people that are going to buy this pay per view
is very high. You know, seventy five percent of the
people that watch that Countdown special are going to purchase

(40:51):
the pay per view. And look at what TNA does.
They have a rating of over one to this show
last night, and you're going to have less than ten
thousand people buy the pay per view because of all
the reasons that we've mentioned.

Speaker 3 (41:02):
M yeah, it's night and day. It's night and day,
and how to promote a product, and you know, to
throw down to the ind of the mix that they
have their problems with pay per views, the sales pitches.
I mean, it's the fatal four way pay review. I
think Brian, you and I talked about this for three
straight live casts. How the four way concept does not
sell pay per views, especially if there isn't a reason

(41:24):
to have a four way match, if you don't have
three rightful people who can say I have a rightful
claim to this world title, of this w title, and
you set up the four way match that way. But
once this by Ray proved, it was one of the
lowest of all time. It was right at one hundred
and fifty thousand buys, and that's probably probably have more

(41:44):
than half of that is international. I don't have a
full breakdown. They haven't released that yet by an international
versus and estic. But you can't sell pay per views
on concepts and gimmicks and stipulations unless there's a reason
for it to happen, and it can probably match up
of one on one or two on two. I mean
right now, you can gold an entire pay per view
around the machine guns and beer money. That that's this

(42:06):
match could be your pay per view main event right now,
but it wouldn't. It's not. It's gonna be on free TV.
So it's amazing to me that wrestling promoters don't understand
how to sell a pay per view. And I want
to introduce this, this idea from Vincent Man who said that,
you know, he was commenting on we know how to fit,
we know what the problem is, and we know how

(42:28):
to fix it. In terms of the pay per view
sales being down, I don't think they know how to
fix it. I think they know the problem is because
it's been in their face for four years as the
payper revised have steadily declined and it's been such a
progressive spiral out of control, and they haven't done anything
to correct it. They've thrown gimmicks and stipulations at the problem.

(42:51):
The problem is that the lack of gimmicks and stipulations
is the lack of top stars in one on one
matchups that you want to pay the seed. I don't
think they get that, and it's amazing to me that
they don't understand that double rand right there. There you go,
two of the Price of War. Jason, good call. We
appreciate that if they had a Canada for us. Let's

(43:14):
going ahead and h Let's grab some more phone calls.
Let's go and go. Let's god have been two two
five Area code two two five. Welcome to the show.
Please say to name where you're from. Hey, this is
Brandon from bett Ridge. Hey, Brandon, how are you doing.
I'm doing pretty good. How about y'all good? What do
you have for this? Well, this question comes back a

(43:34):
few years. So that's nothing to do with all the
craft we've been watching lately. It has to do with
Evolution now, okay, for the night Evolution, Triple H, Batista,
and Rick Flair were walking out to make a big
speech that ended up being the formation of Evolution. Now,
Rick Flair had been managing Triplation Batista, so that kind
of made sense that they were all forming a group.

(43:55):
But while they were walking out, Randy Yorton, who this
was I believe his first night back from his shoulderage
or you know, with the r n N updates that
he used to do. Oh, he's kind of yeah, saw
him walking out and he's like hey, can I come along?
And he just tagged along with him. So I'm wondering
was that the best they could do for getting r
Andy Orton in the group. They didn't have any better ideas.

(44:16):
They couldn't hold it off a week and yeah, but
I mean, what was the deal? Do y'all have any
any insight on it? Brian? Do you remember those circumstances?

Speaker 13 (44:25):
I do not.

Speaker 4 (44:27):
You have to go farther back for me, I remember something.
I don't remember the circumstances surrounding Orton being a part
of that group.

Speaker 3 (44:33):
Huh, Yeah, I honestly don't know. I don't know if
it was just they were wanting to make a big
splash and they figured, well, we're gonna make this big announcement,
we'll need a fourth guy. We're gonna make it Orton
and they throw it through long term planning out the
window and just said we're gonna go with it. I
honestly don't remember much more of the backstory on that.

(44:55):
I think it just kind of came together, you know,
kind of like a horseman. The horseman just kind of
came together. It was a problem with you know, four
or five guys, and they just kind of threw out
the horseman name, put the fingers in the in the middle,
and there you go. So I my best way to
explained to me is just something that happened. I don't
want to know much more about it than that, or

(45:15):
don't remember much more than that, So I can't give
you insight on that, Brandon. That's probably the best I
can do. Nor I got one more question if you have.
This is kind of an MMA question too. When ww
F was doing the Brawl for All tournament, uh, basically
braw Rall was MMA matches in the middle of a

(45:36):
wrestling show. Well, did they actually go to the state
athletic commissions and everything that actually governed MMA as a
real sport and get their proper clearances or did they
just put it on and ignore any kind of rules
and hoping nobody said anything. Brian, do you remember that?

Speaker 4 (45:56):
I can't say with one hundred percent certainty, but I'm
pretty sure they did not go through all the proper
legal channels they needed to, like MMA like UFC has done.
You know, I think they did what they needed to
do and if anybody asked if they were, you know,
gonna say it was more of a pro wrestling show
and figured they would fly under the radar, which they

(46:17):
have done with just about everything else anyway, So I'm
pretty sure they didn't go to the extent that USC
has done to get everything properly licensed and legal.

Speaker 1 (46:28):
We're about to go to a commercial break. Why listen
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(46:48):
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Speaker 3 (47:01):
Yeah, it's one of those things where, I mean, if
you think about it, WWTNA, any promoter really they can
sort of do anything they want. Let me let me
explain this. What I'm saying is that when you talk
about having a match and a lot of times you
know arrestler will have a match like like even Rick

(47:22):
Clair talked about this, and you know he's talking about, oh,
I never really came out of retirement in we I
just kind of had a fight or a match with
Randy Jorton, and he could sort of say, well, I
never really came out of retirement with that, or he
could say I did come out of retirement with that,
because I did start to fight and brawl with rayany
Orton after his retirement and wrestling in twenty four. The

(47:43):
idea is that sort of when you promote a pro
wrestling show, you can almost put as long as it
doesn't you know, break any laws or injure any fans
or you know, involve blowing something up without clearance, you
can kind of present any product that you really won
out there and kind of passed it off to the
audience says, you know, this is a this is a
street fight, this is a shoot fight, this is a

(48:03):
cage match, and you can kind of pro wrestling is
such a broad term in terms of what you're promoting
at a venue or an arena that oftentimes you can
just say, you know what, We're just gonna have a
par wrestling fight and that would be the same as
if you had to steal cage match or if you
try to present a legitimate shoot fight like the ball

(48:25):
for all. So it kind of gives you a lot
of leloy to just kind of do what you want
with that format as long as it doesn't you know,
just break blatantly break rules at that venue. So I
don't think they kind of went through proper channels to
sank shit like an MMA card or like you would
with an NMA fight. I just I don't think they

(48:45):
went that route, Like like Brian said, sort of one
of those things they did and hope that no one
really looked too intently into it, And I think that's
probably what happened there. You're listening to the PW Torch
Live cast. This is gonna be Towards Assistant Editor James
Caldwell hosting today with Towards Nostalgic Calmist Brian Hooks. About

(49:07):
fifteen minutes left in the show. If he's going to
jump on the phone lines, give him us a call
that I'm gonna call us six four, six, seven, two one, nine,
eight to eight. Let's go to our next caller. Let's
go to the five six two area code five six two.
Welcome to the show we say dream where you're from?

Speaker 9 (49:25):
My name is ray On from Long Beach, California. First
of all, I just want to say thank you guys
so much to post.

Speaker 14 (49:31):
About current Angle uh filming that movie out in ELMANI
because I actually called him six because I worked at
WB as a standing on a pilot show. I actually
called in sick, drove out all the way nearly like
eighty miles an hour to go meet that guy. And
when I met him, I actually told him about legendary.

Speaker 3 (49:52):
Oh really legendary.

Speaker 9 (49:54):
Yeah, he really had no clue about it. And then
you see the next couple of days you get put
out of report that on his Twitter. He's started ripping it.
Me and Angle had a laugh.

Speaker 11 (50:02):
I was like, John Cena is.

Speaker 9 (50:04):
Making a movie about real wrestling, and then he goes,
what's the name of it? And it's a legendary and
he starts laughing. I mean he literally fell to the
ground laughing. He took a knee laughing, and you.

Speaker 3 (50:17):
Know a lot of it.

Speaker 9 (50:17):
I asked him, you know, I was real, real wrong
with him. I said, when are you coming back to WW?
But you're gonna stop playing with these with these minor leaguers,
and I know they once were major leaguers, but you
know what I mean, like when you gonna start playing
with the minor leagues and go back to the majors.
And he said when he goes to WWE, they will be.

Speaker 15 (50:36):
His last year.

Speaker 9 (50:37):
But that's pretty much gonna be it, like like when
he shows up in WW that that's three hundred and
sixty five days later.

Speaker 3 (50:45):
That's it, like every year for Kurt Angle.

Speaker 9 (50:48):
And you know, a lot of it, you know, not
only that, I also thank you because you know, a
stand in in the TV show has about the same
four as a dark Group Match competitor WW.

Speaker 6 (51:01):
Not that much.

Speaker 9 (51:01):
But it's a little bit though that I have on set,
and I was able to get his email and his
information to try to get him on actually booked on
the show we work on because it's a pilot. You know,
they're doing so many different cases because it's kind of
like cold case so and the opportunity to be able
to work with Angle is like tremendous to and even

(51:22):
like if not like to exchange information, to visit me
at a rap party with the crew and all that.
To have him as my guest. I just want to
thank you guys. P W Dudge, you guys are the
best for that.

Speaker 3 (51:32):
All right, right, we appreciate the call. At least now
we know where Angle's comments came from. I mean, it
was amazing the series of comments. First, he he sort
of riffs the legendary movie. He says it's not realistic
because Johnson is involved. I post the story. Uh, others
kind of pick up on the story, and then Angle
sort of really really really backtracks and says, oh, you know,

(51:54):
Johnson is great. I'm so glad he's doing what he's
doing for amateur wrestling, and it's just he's just sort
of back. So now we have some backgrounds on where
Angle is coming from here. Brian, what's your take on
where Angle is in his career and where does he
end up in we at the end of the day.
Do you think that he stays the TNA for the

(52:15):
rest of his career and sort of retires to a management, booking,
writer agent type position, and where do you think he
is in his career right now?

Speaker 4 (52:24):
I think is the best thing for him and for
WW and wrestling fans in general to will be to
go back to WW and receive a proper retirement and
induction into our Hall of Fame and the nights of DVD,
he said, and and all all that comes along with
with retiring and and being part of ww That's something
that he and A and really no one else is
able to offer to guys as kind of their last

(52:46):
right off in the sunset. You know that Shawn Michaels
had the DVD this spring, He had the nice retirement
match at WrestleMania, a nice sendoff, very classical way that
they you know, they did it with him and and
Kurt Angle. Because some of his contributions to pro wrestling,
amateur wrestling, he certainly deserves the same type of accolades,
and he's not going to get it at TNA. He

(53:08):
the best place for him is to go back to
WWE at some point. I'm sure he would be taken
back provided everything as far as medical conditions are healthy
and he's physically able to be back in WWE, and
you know, maybe wrestle for six months to a year
and build to that WrestleMania sendoff match and eventually retire
because you know, he's getting what is the forty one

(53:31):
two years old something like that, it's it's getting time
for him to at least start thinking about it, right.

Speaker 3 (53:36):
And TNA has been trying to the send off for
Sting for about four years and he keeps coming back
every year. Well maybe this would be the year that
we go ahead to the the retirement, and yet somehow
they book it and it doesn't work out, It comes back.
You know, it's just his pattern. Let's go and grab
Let's try to squeeze in some more phone calls the
last ten minutes. Let's go to the five six to

(53:57):
two area code three. I just had you on right,
appreciate you being on the show. Let's go to the
ninety one seven area code nine one seven. Welcome the show, plea.
Say you d where you're from?

Speaker 16 (54:09):
Hey guys, Joe from Queen, how you doing for that round?

Speaker 13 (54:11):
Good Joe?

Speaker 11 (54:12):
What do you have for think?

Speaker 3 (54:14):
Hey man?

Speaker 16 (54:15):
Just a couple of questions comments. Actually with TNA, the
one thing I think they have always always they're missing
the bone as of right now, but they've they've missed
it before, is they're not really concentrated on the World
title Picture at all.

Speaker 5 (54:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 16 (54:29):
For instance, last week Rob van Dam was on TNA
literally for about two minutes where he ran in and
he tried to fight a best or something, and Dreamer
came out and you know, he broke it up or whatever.
And I'm I'm thinking of myself, like, you know, if
this was w W E, I would bet my entire
life saving on the fact that vincecicmahon would never ever

(54:50):
have his world champion on his show for two minutes
and that's it. And I just don't understand, you know,
why they don't why Temate has to always have this
mentality of, hey, we have to get everyone over, so
we're gonna have equal time through everyone, Like, you know,
don't I don't want to see, you know, some of
their younger cars, like like Rob Terry out there for
ten minutes, Like why don't they just try to concentrate

(55:12):
on like two or three main stories throughout the whole
show and then the rest you can just kind of
have a like fillers or whatever. But like, it's just
they always try to pack so much into one show
where you're like it all just kind of just goes
into like you know, you just forget about what's just happened,
and it just doesn't make sense. I just want to
know what like if you guys think that's the case, like.

Speaker 3 (55:31):
It's just just more of like a russo thing, like
he just doesn't believe in the world title as much
or what. No, it's I mean, it's a complicated it's
a complicated mess. Well, I mean part of it through
or so, part of its sixty part of its management,
part of its production. It's let's try to break this
down and as few sentences as possible. You have a

(55:55):
roster that is too large for just two hours, with
too much con tent that I mean just is completely
useless on a week to week basis. Too many guys,
like I said, on the roster Dixie Carter wanting certain
people pushed. And then also you have certain guys who
are on who have contracts for guaranteed number of dates,

(56:15):
so you have to use them on TV because you know,
either you know you're you're trying to space out their dates,
or you come to the you're almost you're almost at
the end of the at the at the end of
the contract, you realize this guy's gonna be on TV
because he has X number of dates left, and we
have X number of TV episodes left in the contract.
So you have all these different factors coming to play,

(56:35):
and what you end up with is a show that
the product of a creative team that that can't get
anyone over with management that that has added too many,
way too many wrestlers to one roster, plus the writing
the writing team, which I mean at times their hands

(56:57):
are tied or they're incompetent. So you have this perfect
storm if he's a vicent man turned from yesterday a
perfect storm of management malfunction to just clait a term.
But Brian, what's your over impression of what Joe is
talking about with just the way that they present the
world the world champion, and also the way that they

(57:18):
present just way too much stuff on just just one
given week of TV.

Speaker 4 (57:24):
Well, you know, Jill, you're you're right about a lot
of things that is wrong with TNA. And we've talked
about this before. You know, t and A always said
when they had the one hour television, there wasn't enough
time to get the angles over, get their guys over,
and so they had to go to two hours, and
when they did that they would be able to effectively
get their angles out there, their their performers over. And

(57:45):
that's not happened, and it's not going to happen because
of the way the management team is structured, the way
the booking team.

Speaker 11 (57:50):
Is all set up.

Speaker 4 (57:51):
You look at the history of Vince Russo and you know,
it's not that he can't change, but what you know,
he's given us a thirteen year track record of books
and look at what he's done. He's devalued every title
that he's.

Speaker 5 (58:04):
Been associated with.

Speaker 4 (58:05):
You know, I think in nineteen ninety nine the WCW
World title changed hands twenty six times or some ridiculous
number like that. In fact, he held a belt, David
Arkutt held the belt, and so what does that do
to your title? That just makes them completely worthless. And
you know who what type of a champion is? Is
RVD or Rob Cherry was a champion? What do those

(58:27):
belts mean? And why is it important to be champion?
And we don't ever find out on any of the
TV shows because it doesn't really matter in the scheme
of things are how T and A books And unfortunately,
until they make some changes in their overall philosophy and
their patterns and who is running the promotion in the programs,

(58:47):
that's the way it's going to be. You know, you
look at USC again, because they're successful, why not try
and emulate them. Their biggest performers are the guys who
are holding the title. The second biggest performers of the
guys who are chain in the title, and that's who
they get over on their shows. Until you are put
into one of those two positions, you're not featured very heavily.

(59:08):
You don't have angles or a lot of promotional time
devoted to you. You might get a little bit of
TV time so that somebody can recognize you, especially if
you have a good match or good event, but you know,
T and A needs to slow things down. There's so
much going on in the first forty minutes of last
night's program. I think how many angles were there that

(59:28):
I can't remember most of them. I think there was
two matches at totaled three minutes each, and the rest
of us just filled with angles and beautiful people and
everything else, and it just all runs together and you
end up losing any context of what they're trying to
focus on.

Speaker 3 (59:43):
And you have Eric Bischoff in that promotion who says,
you know, I don't see what the comparison is MMA,
and how we can incorporate that into pro wrestling, And
I'd really like to hear a convincing argument on how
you can incorporate MMA or UFC style promoting into wrestling.
And when you have something like that, and TNA is
saying that, that's about all you need to know. When

(01:00:06):
someone says, oh, we can't incorporate anything, I'd like to
hear someone convince me of that. And it's just you
throw your hands in the air. And they're just not
going to adjust their styles to just learn, just to
learn how to better incorporate angles and storylines into their
two hours of TV every week. So that's where they are.
Job appreciate the call. We're gonna squeeze in a couple

(01:00:27):
more calls in the last five minutes or so of
the show. Let's go to the nine oh five area
code nine oh five. Welcome to the show. Please stay
to name where you're from.

Speaker 15 (01:00:37):
Hey guys, it's Jeff from Canada.

Speaker 3 (01:00:39):
Hey Jeff, what do you have for saying?

Speaker 15 (01:00:42):
I was just wondering? Obviously? AJ Styles has renamed the
global title the TV title Yes, and next week he
is facing curd Angle Yes in the least, So, uh
do you think the title will be on the line?
You take it should be, considering it's a TV title,

(01:01:02):
but Angles also moving up the top ten rankings, and
he I think has said he if he loses, he'll
retire before he wins the world title. Is that right?

Speaker 3 (01:01:16):
Yeah? I mean it's one of those things where again
too many things in volture. You have a TV champion,
you have Kurt Angle, who's you know, his career is
on the line every time he's in the ring. That
should be a major headline, a major headline every single
time he wrestles. But it's not too many things happening.
I don't think that TV titles gonna be on the line,

(01:01:36):
which kind of means the purpose of having a TV
champion if it's a wrestle belts on the line.

Speaker 15 (01:01:41):
I mean already we're like a couple of weeks into
it and the title almost means nothing because it's not
on the line on TV exactly.

Speaker 3 (01:01:50):
Yeah, I mean you know what, That's all I had.

Speaker 4 (01:01:52):
I just was, Yeah, I had to say, James calls
that play right, it means nothing. My understanding is the
belt is not on the line, and the machine guns
beer money match next week is gonna be two out
of three balls. From what I've heard yeah, and James,
I just I just had to laugh last night. Did
you hear Mike today reference how the TNA title is

(01:02:15):
equivalent to the old nw A TV title that was
held by Totally Blanchard and and Barry Wind. I just
had to die laughing when him and Tas were talking
about that, And what a stretch trying to draw any
comparison whatsoever between those two belts.

Speaker 3 (01:02:31):
I know it's and but it's so amazing to me
because Styles actually looks like Blanchard in certain respects, and
so they're trying to make him there. I mean, they're
the the impact preview for their special. I was just
gonna it's at thirty second special, I'm sorry, the thirty
second preview for the special that's Spike TV released, and

(01:02:51):
they have this angle of aj Styles in the ring.
He looks just like Totally Blanchard, and they're trying to
make him their TV champion in the same Blanchard. But
the belt's got to be important for that to defer
that comparison to work in the belt has no value
at all. Oh my goodness, it's it is such a stretch, Brian.

(01:03:12):
So I'm glad you brought that up clear, they're trying
to make him they're blanched.

Speaker 17 (01:03:17):
So ninety seconds, I'm Chris Maitland and I'm Justin McClellan's.

Speaker 18 (01:03:26):
We host Wrestling Coast to Coast, where we scour the
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Speaker 3 (01:04:37):
Jeffrey, appreciate that call. We're gonna tart to squeeze and
one more call today. This is a Nicole Frack. So
let's go ahead and bring to cole in. Welcome to
the show. Please, did you an where you're from? This
is John from Columbus. Hey, John, what do you have
for a say?

Speaker 16 (01:04:52):
I just wanted to let you know I went to
seven and eleven and got my John Cena cup last night.

Speaker 3 (01:04:57):
I'm so excited with Ramus. There was ray material there
from the TV second Fuck the w W. That's a joke.
All right, we're gonna give that call off the air.
Wait wait, wait to finished off the weekend there, Brian.

Speaker 4 (01:05:15):
So you know what they could have done with that
TV title Chames, because Bill Watts ran some really good
TV programs. When he would build TV around the tournament
and have the tournament go each week. It built fan
interest and it grew big ratings. I think T and
A really missed the ball by not creating a TV
title and having the tournament for the championship and try

(01:05:37):
and get some rankings out of it.

Speaker 3 (01:05:38):
Yep. Yeah, and and make it a competitive TV tournament.
You know, involved some big stars in that as well
to do establish that. Yeah, the bigger guys are gutting
for that belt as well. But it was just thrown
out there that a change was made. Build up wasn't there.

Speaker 16 (01:05:54):
It's just kind of happened in seconds.

Speaker 3 (01:05:56):
Story of TNA. So, Brian, you're not going to stick
around for the after show. FFP members stick around for that.
Thank you for listening the great weekends.

Speaker 8 (01:06:17):
Thank you for using blog talk radio.

Speaker 3 (01:06:21):
All right, Brian, we're now in the uh V t
after show. A portion of the show U cover a
lot of w and TNA topics. Didn't get to a
couple other topics we're gonna get to, which is the
NWA Legends fan Fest, also the Parade of Champions which
NWA Southwest is bringing up uh next Saturday. I'll actually

(01:06:41):
be in Dallas, Dallas area, covering that back on the
road next week. In covering that show, we'll talking about
the Parade of Champions, h Brian w a Legends fan
Fest big deal this weekend, jam Ronston Cornette, Danny Hodge,
Brian Danielson will be wrestling tomorrow against the NW World
champion Adam Pierce. Slats stuff happening there with some of
your your news and those and some insight into the

(01:07:05):
Legends fantos this weekend.

Speaker 4 (01:07:07):
Right, we had something in the this week's newsletter kind
of previewing what was going to be happening in the
rundown each day, who was going to be there for
their autograph sessions and such. And you know, I plan
on talking with Great Price either Sunday or Monday and
and getting kind of a rundown from him as far
as what happened over the weekend, anything newsworthy it came

(01:07:27):
out of this weekend event. Chris Mitchell's Aaron hand, I believe,
so he probably can provide an insight as well. But
always that's I think that's one of the three biggest
fan fest type gatherings that they have throughout the year,
and that along with the Kaliflower Alley Club and the
Waterloo Hall of Famer. If if it was me up
to meet, those are the three that I would attend anyway.

(01:07:49):
So I think, yeah, I think it'll be it'll be
really really good weekend for for wrestling fans. And that's,
as I said, one of the biggest events the entire weekend.

Speaker 3 (01:07:59):
Yeah, is there one particular thing you're you're looking forward
to the most in terms of uh a Q and
a session or someone you know, kind of hearing reports
on someone live in person. Danny Hodge related to is
there a single uh big item that you're sort of
looking forward to the most, either hearing about or reading
reports on?

Speaker 5 (01:08:20):
Well, yet a couple of things here.

Speaker 4 (01:08:23):
Each year they make a DVD of the entire weekend event.
So if you're not able to be there, like I'm
not able to be there this weekend, you can buy
the DVD and actually be there to listen to the
question and answer and the roundtable and the Hall of
Fame inductions, and you know, it's a really well produced event. Interestingly,
it's done by it has been done by High Spots
in the last couple of years, but because of the

(01:08:44):
problems between the Greg Price and High Spots, and I
have an article about it in next week's newsletter why
There's problems. They will not be filming it this year
and another company will be UH will be doing that,
so we'll have some information on that U. So I
always look forward to that. I'm not able to attend
to get the DVD and have some of those memories

(01:09:04):
and speeches if you if you'd like that sort of
thing to have that there on recording. One other thing
on a personal level that I really am looking forward
to is at Waterloo. I was talking with Danny Hodge
and he and I had agreed to do an interview
after his induction this weekend as and and talk about
what that means to him. And so hopefully in one

(01:09:26):
of these weeks I'll be getting together with Danny and
what we'll be doing the Torch interview Obsession, and we'll
have that up for our listeners here in a few weeks.

Speaker 3 (01:09:34):
Awesome, that's a really good get. Yeah, looking forward to that.
That should be a very fascinating interview. Do you have
a specific copic idea in mine or just sort of
historical some historical interview type questions, or you have a
specific idea in mind for the interview.

Speaker 4 (01:09:51):
Yeah, well, we're going to talk just a lot about
his career, and you know, a lot of fans may
not recognize that, but you know, what does it mean
for him to be inducted. He's been inducted into just
about every Hall of statemer Is except the w W,
and Jim Ross has certainly been pushing that really hard
and probably will continue to. But uh, you know, I
think there's a lot of material to talk about with

(01:10:11):
Danny Hodge and he's he's open and willing to uh.

Speaker 11 (01:10:14):
To talk, So we're gonna get him on awesome.

Speaker 3 (01:10:18):
That's that's definitely worth looking out for in the VIP
audio section the next couple of weeks. Uh, Brian, let's
talk a little bit about the Parative Champions I know
you love to talk World Class Championship wrestling, since the
a good day to talk about it. Like I said
at the beginning of the VPP after show, Uh, the
nw A Southwest is promoting the show with Adam Pierce
versus Charlie HoTT for the former w W wrestler Charlie

(01:10:41):
Hoffs for the n w A title with the Parative
Champions Show next Saturday, it's kind of outside of Dallas
in the Dallas area. Tray of Champions. Of course, with
World Class they're big one of their big cards annually,
and they had some of the biggest names that would
come in and usually fight von Erics or fight the
free Birds, all they fight each other on those big cards.

(01:11:04):
Ry Ford a little bit about the history of the
Prayer of Champions concept and some of the bigger matches
and the bigger feuds that were part of those big cards. Well.

Speaker 4 (01:11:13):
The very first Parodive Champions was actually held in May
of nineteen seventy two at the Dallas Texans Stadium. It
was open in nineteen seventy one, and so Fritz von
eric who owned the wrestling promotion at that time was
known as Big Time Wrestling promoted NWAVN and they had
that in the spring of seventy two to kind of

(01:11:36):
kick off the new football stadium and Dori Funk Junior
was an NWA World champion at the time. Him and
Fretz wrestled to a sixty minute time limit draw and
they had over twenty five thousand people. Saw a huge
success for that event. They did not have another Parade
of Champions until the death of David van Erk in
eighty four, and then they brought back the concept of

(01:11:56):
preydif champions. It was nicknamed the David van Eric Memorial
paraded Champions in May of eighty four, and this was
a card that Carrie, his younger brother, promised to win
the title in honor of David, who never had a
chance to wrestle or excuse me, to win the NWA
World title. And so in May of that year he
wrestled ricks lair and ended.

Speaker 5 (01:12:18):
Up winning the belt in front of thirty two thousand fans, and.

Speaker 4 (01:12:20):
It was kind of a favorite of Fritz basically because
of the death of David. To give the belt to Carrie,
there was no long term plans for Carry to hold
the belt and he certainly would not have been a
credible choice as long term champion. So he ended up
holding the belt for just a couple of weeks before
losing it back to Rick Flayer in Japan. And then
each year it became a memorial show. In eighty five,

(01:12:43):
they had another one in eighty six I believe I
think another brother, Mike passed away, and then it was
a David and Mike Vinery memorial show, and then interest
in the products started to dwindo. Vince McMahon came a
little bit more a national enity, and by nineteen eighty
eight and eighty seven and eighty eight, actually they were

(01:13:05):
only able to draw about seven or eight thousand fans
to the cards. And you know, in eighty eight we
were seeing a lot of matches with some lesser talent.
You know, we had, like you mentioned, the free Birds
of Von Erics and very heavily involved in the first
two shows. The free Birds had kind of moved on
out of the territory and had come back at certain times.

(01:13:26):
Rick Rud was the World Class Champion. By eighty eight,
the World Class had pulled out of the NWA and
was just their own promotion and named Rick Rud as
a World Champion and he wrestled on that card as
a champion. And we also saw Carrie van Erk win
the belt in eighty eight from Iceman King Parsons, and
then that led to Carrie holding the belt and trying

(01:13:48):
to unify it with the AWA at the Superclass to
December of eighty eight. So that's kind of a little
bit of the back history of the Trader Champions cards.
Very first one play as they said, seventy one, and
then they had them consecutive years eighty four to eighty eight.

Speaker 3 (01:14:02):
Yeah, it was a fascinating time during those mid eighties
when frended Champions. I mean with the December car or
the you know, the Christmas cards and the Thanksgiving cards
and the Praied Champions. They sort of, along with w B,
they kind of, you know, had all these big supercards
that would sort of culminate their feuds. And from there

(01:14:24):
it seems like, you know, w W kind of took
that model and added all these pay per views and
what we see today are just too many pay per
views at the pay per view lineups. You know, Praider
Champions was quote unquote you know what. You know, let's
say a Summer Slam tight card for a certain period
of time, and you know, w B is sort of
parlayed this from our discussion earlier in the show about

(01:14:48):
sort of the glut of pay per views. It did
seem like, I mean, Roan, would you say that the
Preied Champions was kind of watered down due to too
many big cards? If you think it was watered down
from the lack of talent or just world class kind
of just stayed off as them. He kind of took
over the national landscape.

Speaker 4 (01:15:06):
Yeah, you know, the Pretty Champions was a unique event
because it was an outdoor show that they had, and
they had just the outdoor events once a year when
they had the Star Wars events, so that you know,
Thanksgiving or Labor Day star Wars, those were usually in
Reunion Arena in Dallas, so it was unique from the standpoint.
They had headed outdoors at the Big Texas Stadium with

(01:15:27):
the Cowboys plight, so that made it unique. There was
a lot of wrestling shows that were pointed as huge events,
all outdoors and usually blow off type matches where you
would end a feud such as Carrie Van Eric chase
for the title for the end of the world title
winning from Flair. It's a good example that what put
the Territories out of business, would put World Class out

(01:15:47):
of business and virtually ended their run in eighty eight
was just a lack of talent.

Speaker 5 (01:15:52):
You know that a lot of the Van.

Speaker 4 (01:15:53):
Erics were gone by them, just just Kevin and and
Carrie were remaining wrestling in eighty eight. The fan had
lost interest and you can't run a successful promotion without
the talent. Talent base, and they were losing it because
WWF was running virtually three shows in nineteen eighty eight,
they were running a thousand matches a year by themselves

(01:16:15):
and touring you know, three different touring companies basically around
the United States just within that one company and just
lack of talent that really hurt a lot of the territories.
That really was what one of the things anyway that
succumbed to the world class organization.

Speaker 3 (01:16:30):
Right, and that that was sort of a one of
the bigger explosions of I guess implosion of a promotion.
It was just that said, that big high and then
they lost the talent either sometimes via death or WWE
or just running out of talent for guys, a feud
with so I think the Play of Champions, I mean,

(01:16:52):
it was for its time, it was a pretty big
deal for you know, just for that that short period
of time. So I'm kind of glad to see in
will Southwest bring it back, you know, even if it's
not on a big scale, but just to sort of
revisit that history and try to use that name, just
to get some history and back into the NWA, especially

(01:17:13):
in the n w A which has so much history
oftentimes isn't recognized in today's landscape just because they're not
on the national scale, I mean, the National Rustling Alliance,
yet they don't have a national presence, at least national
TV presence. So I'm kind of interested to see how
this card turns out next Saturday, which I'll be covering
with Like I said, Adam Pierce Charlie Hotts in the

(01:17:35):
main event of the World Title. Why any other thoughts
on pretty champions or just world class in generals, and
I know you like to talk world class, so anything
else on that topic.

Speaker 4 (01:17:47):
You know, I think it's a nice idea, an idea
that NWA is trying to run some bigger shows and
tie in with the pass and the nostalgia name and
bringing back some of these shows.

Speaker 16 (01:17:58):
You know, I think it's a good idea.

Speaker 4 (01:17:59):
You make. You some of these wrestling fans who who
remember the days of the Van Erks in the in
the World Class Organization running some Prayer Champions shows and
you know, trying to tie in and maybe reliving some
of those nostalgia feelings and nostalgia memories. Maybe they'll come
out and start watching wrestling again and become fans. Once
again if they do present a good product, so you know.

Speaker 5 (01:18:20):
Thumbs up.

Speaker 4 (01:18:21):
I think it's a good idea, well worth a try,
and you know, I think it's if it's successful, maybe
nw A can can run some other shows that was
successful and in some of the areas around the country
and and hopefully bring back wrestling more at at a
grassroots level, because that's where a lot of the stars
that we'll see in the future are going to be developed.

Speaker 3 (01:18:42):
There. You go, very good, very good perspective on that, Brian,
I think we've covered. Uh. I think we covered with
everything with so many different uh I E don't know
what the word is, not negative, but just uh, just
some really poor stories in the news, just in terms
of a poor TNA product and a poor w W

(01:19:03):
quarter that was reported yesterday, so sort of a down,
downer end of the week in wrestling. I'd say it's
just you know, a tinge of negativity or I don't
even know if the right word, which is it feels
like wrestling is struggling right now and w B being
the bell weather of the industry and having that bad

(01:19:25):
quarter kind of put this sour taste and everyone's mouth
who covers or watches Wrestling coupled with TNA and the
product they put up last two weeks, which has been
nothing short of terrible. So it's kind of rough enough
to end on. But we got to take a world
class so that's a good that's a good way to do.

Speaker 5 (01:19:42):
That's good.

Speaker 3 (01:19:42):
That's got me to close there, So you know, I
think we cover just put everything, So Brian definitely recommend
checking out Brian Hoops' podcast this week, as well as
the latest news and notes and this week's Torch newsletter
covering the nostalgia but I'm sure play a big news
and next week's Towards News with Brian covering the nostalgia beat.

(01:20:03):
Everyone can be sure to look out for that next week,
as well as another new podcast, plus of course the
Danny hodgepodcast in a couple of weeks. So good stuff there,
Brian final word before we wrap it up today.

Speaker 4 (01:20:14):
Yeah, well, which do you have a good weekend? James
and we'll talk to against very good.

Speaker 3 (01:20:20):
We will probably talk next Friday of the week after,
so can you hear from you? Brian has a good
weekend everyone, Thanks so listening. Thanks for your support of
the VIP audio section before Torch Nostalgic column. It's Brian Hoops.
This is Torch Assistant editor James Caldwell signing off.

Speaker 1 (01:20:38):
Anytime you're watching ww E Raw or SmackDown or AEW
Dynamite in particular, send us an email if you've got
thoughts on the show or a topic you want us
to address or a question for us. Wade Kellor Podcast
at pwtorch dot com. Wadekellor Podcast at petwtorch dot com.
If there's anything else going on in pro wrestling that
you want us to address on our main podcast during

(01:20:59):
our mail bank segments, that same email applies Wade Keller
Podcast at PW torch dot com. We invite that interaction.
Let us know what you think of what we're saying,
and let us know what you want us to talk
about and ask us specific questions. Wadekeller Podcast at PW
torch dot com.

Speaker 3 (01:21:21):
You are listening to the pter B Torch live cast.
This is p B Torch Assistant editor James Caldwell hosting
today on Monday, August to night, and I'm joined by
pter B Torch columnist Greg Parks. Greg, how are you
doing today?

Speaker 5 (01:21:35):
I'm doing well?

Speaker 11 (01:21:36):
Thanks, Jims.

Speaker 3 (01:21:37):
Are you already to talk about the pay reviews featuring
that promotion from Philadelphia.

Speaker 11 (01:21:41):
Today, I am looking forward to discussing the pay per
view featuring guys from the original organization, from.

Speaker 3 (01:21:52):
The original arena, which was held in the original Bingo
Hall in the original city and city of birth, and
that promotion and those stars and that group. We're gonna
talk at all about that pay per view that happened
that night last night. So I think I think we
stretched the joke out as much as possible, but probably Yeah,

(01:22:12):
what what was your overall impression of of TNA's pay
per view last night and what they presented, which was,
you know, a break from the normal flow of TNA
pay per views featuring that group of those guys doing
those matches. Well, you know what, we's just you know,
kind of start off talking about what was your impression
of that, and we're just going to to discussed some

(01:22:33):
of the points from that show to start the live
cast set.

Speaker 11 (01:22:38):
It was pretty much what I expected, a lot of
broken down guys doing a few minute matches.

Speaker 13 (01:22:44):
Uh.

Speaker 11 (01:22:45):
Now, the guys that we've seen either previous One Night
stand with WWE or in the early stages of the
w w E e W promotions, and then you've got
the guys from TNA, the Team three d Al Snow,
Simon Diamond and the like. I was ready to say

(01:23:08):
goodbye to ETW, you know. I came to terms with
that in two thousand and five after the first one
night stand.

Speaker 7 (01:23:14):
Okay, so this this was not I was not looking.

Speaker 11 (01:23:18):
Forward to this. It's not like I was dreading watching him,
but I wasn't looking forward to it by any means.
It just it was a lot of it was just
not for me. I don't think it was geared toward
those who have, you know, either still hung on to
that ECW tradition and the promotion, or you know, these

(01:23:39):
guys just getting that one last paycheck, which which we
said in two thousand and five that they'd beginning that
one last paycheck and here they are five years later,
still cashing in on it. A lot of it was
kind of sad to watch. I mean, there were really
any good matches, which you kind of didn't really expect
there to be. I thought, with Jerry Lynn r v
D advertise I ahead of time that I had a chance.

Speaker 8 (01:24:00):
But.

Speaker 11 (01:24:01):
Putting Taboo in there made just spotfast and nothing resembling
you know, anything more than two stars, Certainly, I wouldn't
say so. Yeah, it was.

Speaker 3 (01:24:13):
And the worst part about it was it.

Speaker 5 (01:24:15):
Was them.

Speaker 11 (01:24:18):
Bringing Dixie Carter into the ring to close the show
with the beer bash. I mean, like, there's nothing more
extreme than a forty five year old woman who you
know a lots DNA. That's that's exactly what ECW is about.
But it just it just stunk of that kind of move,
stunk of whoever's writing this, whether it be Timmy Dream
or Vince Russeol, you know, sucking up to Dixie Carter,

(01:24:39):
which is, you know, a reason we see her on
TV every week even though you know how many times
that she's not going to be on TV or you know,
people in TNA said they're not going to make a
character out of her. So that was just that was
kind of stomach turning at the end.

Speaker 9 (01:24:53):
To see that.

Speaker 11 (01:24:53):
I'm like, ah, this is what has become now. So,
I mean, it is what I expected it to be, certainly,
and nothing.

Speaker 5 (01:25:00):
A it was.

Speaker 3 (01:25:03):
I mean, I have so many different thoughts on what
aired last night and just the state of TNA. I
think you get a lot of the good points, a
lot of the good talking points for Greg It's two
thousand and five was the end. I mean, it was.
It was a big party. It was it was what
it needed to be. It was a celebration of ECW

(01:25:24):
and you know, w B kind of dragged it through
with the East of your brand and that sort of die.
I died in this year and that should have been
the end of it. They didn't need TNA, did not
need to do this pay per view. They didn't need
to do it for any reason. It just it was
a way they decided this was a way to sort
of break from the schedule, break from the format, kind

(01:25:46):
of shake it up a little bit. But all it
did was reinforce that TNA, it is a promotion that's
behind the times, not cool, it's a anity project. Just
looking at that show in the Impact Zone, I mean
they could put bells and whistles and blue lights and
change the camera angles and the lighting and add some

(01:26:09):
tweaks and presentation changes. It's still Impact Zone, you know,
it's still I mean, just I mean, it brought back
all the memories I had from I guess, not memories,
but the thoughts I had from a month ago being there,
being in that environment, being in the impact zone being
around those fans. They're fans that were ten years too

(01:26:30):
late for ECW. They want to make it. They want
to feel like they're part of ECW. They want to
do the chance, they want to do the they want
to stand up in the whole show. They want to
be part of something big, and they're too late. And
it's just sort of this manufacturing ECW energy in that building.
And this was a prime example of that. And it

(01:26:52):
came across like a second rate show. It wasn't with
wrestlers who were five years path where they weren't oh five,
which you know they were at the very end of
their lifespan is decent workers and add five years of
that and you don't have a lot of decent workers
left who are who are available?

Speaker 2 (01:27:13):
It's right and you talk.

Speaker 11 (01:27:14):
About it being a second rate show, And you know,
I wrote this in my the round Table that will
be appearing and the Torch newsletter that's coming week, the
paper round table, but I wrote that, like, only in
TNA will you see a promotion DNA saying tribute to
another promotion who's initials they can't even use on Eric

(01:27:36):
because they don't know them. And who has to change
about a half dozen masters name is because they don't
own the rights of those names. I mean, only in
TNA will they be giving that much credit and that
much attention to a promotion that they can't even end
on by Eric Bischoff's you know, saying that, you know,
we're not paying tribute to any specific promotion. It's the
type of wrestling now that doesn't fly with me. But

(01:27:59):
you know, to not gonna be able to use the
initial ECW on the show, which just I mean that
did because that made it come off the second rate.
And I think you know, if you had to drink
every time pass accidently said somebody's name or said the
initial et W, you might have been drunk by the
end of the second hour. So uh, it was just
it's it's just sad that that's what has come to

(01:28:20):
that TNA has to pay tribute to a company that
you know, they don't they they can't even say the name.
I mean, that's just that's just TNA and a nutshell.

Speaker 3 (01:28:29):
I guess it came across through an independent show, you know,
like an independent promoter is saying, well, we're gonna get
together in the East the original and we're gonna call
them different names, and we're gonna market it like it's
ECW but we can't use it. But yet this is
a a number two promotion, a seemingly distant even more
distant by the day, number two promotion, a national pay

(01:28:51):
per view television doing this. So yeah, I just went
thinking about how man had changed the names. They couldn't
even many names. Uh, like you said, with Taz would
slip up it almost like a running joke by the
end of the butt in the show, just Taz would
be like, oh, what the heck? You know, I'm just
gonna stay it anyways, you know. Yeah, And then like

(01:29:14):
you said, Dixie Carter at the end, she got the
stars in her eyes, she got a beer in her hand.
She's uh, just and then who I can't remember where
I read this, but I think it was a little
reacts or even the way he kind of pointed this
down on the round table last night that, uh, you know,
who are the three people who are right there next
to Dixie at the very end. It's Big Foley Bubb

(01:29:36):
and Ray Brother Ray whatever he's called, and Tommy Gramer.
And it showed, you know that these are the people
who were able to work. This worked, this uh, this
program and the beans. There's this pay per view that
did not need to happen. So all these guys did
paydays for for what purpose other than you know, Dixie

(01:29:57):
might have heard a couple of SOB stories and decided,
you know, these guys need a good, good, proper send off.
And for ninety nine percent of the audience, that good
proper send off was an O five at One night Stand.
And we didn't need this. It's twenty ten, you know,
we don't need any more closure. It happened. If you
were a big EAHW fan, you already got it. This
was just dragging it through the mud. It was like

(01:30:19):
digging up a grave and dancing out the skeleton. You know,
I hate these analogy That's what it came across. Like
half the time. It wasn't pleasant and it wasn't cool.
It was the ances thesis and cool last night, because
that's pretty much it pretty much summed up TNA being
the anti thesis of being cool. It's manufactured. It's something
I think it was another react. It's something that you know,

(01:30:42):
the original ECW would have laughed at. They would have
mocked this sort of promotion doing this type of show.
It looks like something WCW would have done. It's amazing.
It's amazing what that show was last night, Greg, anything
else kind of specific jumped in mind on some of
the matches or uh, you know, like the dreams of the.

Speaker 11 (01:31:03):
Black Blusters out already, James, thank you very much.

Speaker 3 (01:31:07):
You're ready to move on from each w I'm sorry about.

Speaker 11 (01:31:10):
Promotion the matches anyways.

Speaker 3 (01:31:13):
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Uh, it's just you know, we're gonna
take calls on as well. I mean, we got I mean,
what's ironic is that we got probably our most feedback
on a TNA pay per view possibly ever, possibly not
the same level as Joe Angle from Lockdown or Late
I think.

Speaker 11 (01:31:33):
I guess, I guess the joke's down ousn James, I
guess the joke's not because they're gonna make money off
this pay per view, so it's probably gonna be the
highest VI rate that they've had in a while. So
I mean, I guess, uh, you know, they can they
can go to sleep with that in their heads and
and try and reason themselves into thinking this is a

(01:31:55):
good idea by just pointing at that virate that that
will probably come in higher than almost anything they've done
this year, I'm sure.

Speaker 3 (01:32:03):
Or it could be a deal where the only people
buying the paper view were the hardcore fans who would
write in and send it reacts and other pay per views.
The hardcore fans, notice, skip those pay per views because
theyre don't get free TV shows, and the only people
buying those pay per views are the casual fans or.

Speaker 11 (01:32:18):
Everybody pirate at this one online and watch it online.

Speaker 3 (01:32:23):
Yeah, the legal extream right end reactions is yes, that's
that's the this thing possibility. So, I mean, we're gonna
take calls on it. I just you know what we're
coming in with this this you know what, I think
regulary are both in agreements that are just a pay
per view that it just and you felt dirty. I
mean it felt like, uh, just something that didn't need

(01:32:47):
to happen. And I hate to say that. I mean
a lot of these guys try to work hard. Some
of them looked out, they're in ring shape. Some of
them looked like they hadn't seen the instead of a
ring in about five years. I just think it was
reinforced that TNA is going backwards. They're an Noestalagia promote.
They're vanitying the Stalagia promotion going nowhere, but you know

(01:33:11):
also that they're taping their their Impact special right now.
I believe the main events going on right now with
RVD in Abyss for the Teening World title. So hopefully
they can kind of get this out of their system
to move forward and and move along. But you have
to still have these i'm sorry, the wtw issue with
Nash and Jared and Staying and Hogan and Bishoff, So

(01:33:34):
now no know, MAYB, We're gonna eat I'm sorry, a
WW reunion pay p view next year. That'll be the
August theme every year, a w A in twenty twelve,
so look forward to that, and it's gonna happen.

Speaker 5 (01:33:49):
Greg.

Speaker 3 (01:33:49):
You know what, we're gonna give out the number six four, six, seven, nine,
eight two eight. If you're gonna join us on the
live cast today. Of course, well night you have WDE
with their go home show, but for a Summer Slam,
so of course we'll be taking calls on that p
and A as well anything else going on in the
world of wrestling that's on your mind.

Speaker 19 (01:34:16):
I'm Kelly Wells, host of the Seven Star podcast, the
new ongoing Torch show covering the world of New Japan
pro wrestling. We'll drop new episodes as major shows and
noteworthy events.

Speaker 20 (01:34:27):
Dictate and I'm Chris Lansdow join us as we cover
the ever changing landscape of New Japan as they navigate
an era with no lack of talent, but I really need.

Speaker 3 (01:34:37):
To create some new styles.

Speaker 20 (01:34:38):
You can stream the new seven Stop podcast now from
Pro Wrestling Talk.

Speaker 3 (01:34:52):
Let's go and grab our first phone call today. Let's
go to the four to twenty four area code four
two four. Welcome to the show. Please think today where
you're from.

Speaker 7 (01:35:00):
This is Brian from Balsamples, California.

Speaker 3 (01:35:03):
Hey, Brian, whatever that you know?

Speaker 7 (01:35:06):
The pay review was an average pay per view to me,
a wrestle pay view. I'm in the wrestling fan for
a long time, and it just seems that no real
emotion seems like it's going on anymore in wrestling. It
seems like everything I understand the scripted, but it's just
they're doing a poor job and make as selling things.

Speaker 11 (01:35:24):
You know, the emotions don't seem real between men.

Speaker 7 (01:35:27):
It seems like emotions between women and the soap proper
because you know, in a fight with a man is
supposed to be or rugged more. You know, I don't
like you or you don't like me, and it's supposed
to be more into it, and it just seems like
both companies are just doing a poor job of acting.
That's just like last week PNA Hogan was punching Nash

(01:35:48):
and it was just so slow. And then if you
go back to see the how you beat Piece in
the last minute, the tying, it's.

Speaker 3 (01:35:53):
Time tape around his left.

Speaker 7 (01:35:54):
It's just the way things are going. It just doesn't
seem are bearing anymore. And I think that's why you
see UFC coming up in boxing and a lot of
people say USC because you know it's telling the story.
But I think it's just more that barbaric sins that
wrestling is just losing right now, because I guess they're
going folks.

Speaker 3 (01:36:15):
Yeah, yeah, you make a great point. I'm not sure
if it's quite barbaric nature, but just the fact that
they're selling you in a fight, and they're selling you
on who's a better fighter or in the context of wrestling,
who's a better wrestler, and it connects with an audience.
But when you have something on the pay per view
last night. I'm glad you brought this. You kind of
brought this up a little bit. They had Team three

(01:36:36):
hugging it out with the Gangsters and Balls and Axle
after they pretended to destroy each other, and that just
there's nobody get it. I mean, you don't do that
on a pay per view. I don't care if it's
a reunion show. I don't care if you acknowledge that, Hey,
we're all brothers and family. Why am I gonna buy
into your product? If you're just gonna hug right after

(01:36:58):
you try to bash each other's rains out, it just
it kills the illusion of rustling. I don't care. If
it was just in the ir reunion show, the TNA
continually doing this where they expose they just they killed
the suspicion this place and they exposed their products on
their own show. Greg, what was your reaction when you
saw that sort of postmatch deal where those six guys

(01:37:21):
just kind of plugged it out and raised each other's
arms with no big deal.

Speaker 11 (01:37:25):
I just kind of laughed.

Speaker 21 (01:37:26):
It was one of those moments that didn't make sense
in the context of well it didn't not only didn't
make sense, but if this had happened on any other
pay per view, it wouldn't have happened, because that's that's
not how you write stuff.

Speaker 11 (01:37:39):
But they felt that because this was a reunion show,
and they felt that, you know, because this wasn't about
the matches. This was about seeing the guys and you know,
doing their thing and getting a crowd into it. It
was more about that than who wanted, who lost, who's
shooting with who? Since half these guys aren't gonna go
anywhere anyway, that if I thought, you know, it doesn't
matter if we do this to end things, and you know,

(01:38:01):
it was one of the one of the more one
of the less egregious things that I think I would
complain about yesterday's show. But I mean, you know, the
point of you know, wrestling not being I think realistic
enough is a better word, uh to use maybe uh?
And I think and I've noticed this more and more

(01:38:22):
lately the last couple of weeks, even the last month
or so. If John Ceen is selling and I hadn't
noticed this before, I don't know if I just wasn't
say close enough attention or what, but I mean, he
his long term selling during matches is there's only there's
only two ways he sells things. He sells things a
if he's dead or be he doesn't sell at all.

(01:38:44):
And there's like no middle ground for him. He's you know,
he can take he can be selling like he's dead
one minute and then the next minute you can do
his little routine where he you know, HiT's the fist,
drop and everything. And that's really annoying to see because
it really takes you out of the moment and because
you just think, Okay, he couldn't even move five seconds ago.
Now he ends up getting all this stuff. You know,
Adrenaline counts for something, but not that much, you know,

(01:39:07):
And I really noticed that with seen him. Maybe not
so much it's not as noticeable as other guys, but
with him it really is. And with WWE going PG,
I don't really think making the fights look more realistic
and even that much of a concern to them should be,
probably because you're trying to hook these hooks fans on
the idea that these people are fighting over something in

(01:39:27):
a realistic way. Yet I know I've seen Wade criticize
people before of how it looks like they're it looks
like they're doing a performance in their aning rather than
having a match and you know, feuding and actually trying
to hurt the other person. That doesn't look like that
often enough. And you know, I don't know if that's
how the WWE guys are trained.

Speaker 5 (01:39:48):
Or what, but.

Speaker 11 (01:39:50):
I don't really think it's a concern of them. But
scenas selling and you know, I don't know if you
can blame Scena for it or you know, it's just
the way his matches are put together. If the agent
sort of writers that are instructing to this stuff, but
you know, not necessarily highly on scene here, but his
routine of doing that in longer matches annoys me.

Speaker 3 (01:40:12):
Yeah, no, I agree with you. I mean, you saw
that a couple of weeks ago when he took all
of Nexus his finishers and he kind of rolled to
the outside and you know, he did the triple H
comeback where you know, you know, triple H and the sledgehammer,
and it'd be like he had like a you know,
like in Mario where he hit a one up and
he would hit five ups and all of a sudden

(01:40:33):
he'd be fresh, you know the scene. It's like he'd
roll to the outside and all of a sudden he
came back in and he's doing all He's clearing the
ring and it's just like he took like five finishers
that that should count for something. It says that Hulkuga
and Superman comeback that I think gets a lot of
people's eyes rolling. And it's a lot of reason why

(01:40:53):
that male demographics that would like to see more more
realism with the product just is anti Seena because it
seems illogical, it seems forced, it feels inorganic. It's just
sort of eye rolling, and that's where that's what's turning
off a lot of the demographic is that, like you said,
it does flick a performance all the time, and it

(01:41:14):
comes across that way. You know, Drew McIntyre, that was
I think who Wade would point out a lot looked
like he was just sort of in there because you know,
he was given ten minutes of TV time and he
was gonna use eight of it to kind of walk
around in prance and and make you make you sort
of make you wait for something. You know, it wasn't
like it was a realistic performance. I mean, you covered

(01:41:35):
Drew on Friday nights on SmackDown, so you've seen plenty
of that. I think he's improved a lot since then.
I mean early in his run, he was just I'm
gonna take my time. You're all on my time, you're
on my clock. You know, we're gonna do what I
want to do. It wasn't like he was trying to
win a match, or at least he wasn't selling that
he was trying to win a match. And then you

(01:41:56):
have TNA last night where they had that that team
through the Curtain call, and then right after that is
Tommy dreamond Raven supposedly in this blood bath fewed with
issues dating back ten fifteen years and families involved, and
you're like, wait a second, so this one's real. But
you know, it's just it's just this this mess of

(01:42:18):
how to present wrestling that TNA constantly gets them stuff
in trouble with, just in terms of trying to connect
them connect that product the audience. It's it's just not
intelligent writing. It's not intelligent to use awadism. It's low,
I keep low, I keep looking. I only say that
because that's in the VIP forum right now. There's a

(01:42:39):
thread on on uh uh things that we say in
the Live Cats. I'm gonna go and borrow from light here.
But uh, you know, it's just UFC is doing what
wrestling is. It's almost a Rustling saying, you know what,
we're not gonna do what USC is doing because we're different,
and so we're just gonna go to the opposite of

(01:43:00):
what UFC is doing. But UFC is so in a
selling wrestling, just with real, real fighters in real matchups.
And I don't think people in rustling get that. And
you know it is going to catch up with wrestling
neal over time to night. It depends on how many
stars they can create to make up for some of
these idiotic booking decisions that are made, especially in TNA,

(01:43:24):
So we'll see. I mean, it's it's nothing to I mean,
it's something to worry about, but it's not something to
worry about the short term because there's always the ability
to make stars and stars for a short term period
of time can cover for a lot of booking mistakes.
So there you go, Greg, any of those thoughts on

(01:43:44):
that before I send it back to Brian.

Speaker 11 (01:43:47):
No, you've covered pretty well all right, Brian?

Speaker 3 (01:43:49):
Did you have any other question or follow up on
that topic?

Speaker 7 (01:43:54):
Well, something else off of topic, can r get off
the par office. I hope they do not mess up
Andy Orden's character because a lot of people say that
they didn't all the way turner face. And I think
he's that tweener that they.

Speaker 3 (01:44:06):
Need right now.

Speaker 7 (01:44:07):
And if you turn him two face too much face,
I think he would go too much like johns Seen.
I think he's perfect exactly how he is not talking.
That whole character is just you see, he was getting
a pop before he really even seemed like he was
turning face. And I think that character is a great
character for right now they and I think that we're
in twenty teen and not nineteen eighty five or the

(01:44:28):
eighties where you have to turn a person all the
way baby face.

Speaker 11 (01:44:31):
I think now you can.

Speaker 7 (01:44:32):
Run with a tweener. So could I have your thoughts
on that?

Speaker 3 (01:44:35):
And I get off the phone or hold on or whatever. Yeah,
good call Brian Greg what's your reaction to that.

Speaker 11 (01:44:41):
I agree with Brian. Yeah, I think it's turning Ordon
all the way it would be a mistake. I mean,
if if that's is so much into this character of
him being the viper and him being this really healis guy,
it would it would be hard to accept him as
a full babyface so I think the way he's doing now,
kind of walking the line, is the right way to
go with him. Even in the long term.

Speaker 3 (01:45:05):
I could see that.

Speaker 11 (01:45:05):
I mean, there's you can you can turn him back
heel at some point if you really needed it, if
there were injuries or something like that, and you can
keep them. You can keep them a little heavier on
the baby face side if there's injuries there. So I
mean that's another reason to keep him as a tweener,
to not expose him to either side, or really just
in case you know, you need him to fill a
spot on either side, he could fill in quite nicely.

(01:45:27):
His character, we know, the guy who really doesn't care
about himself and if he had to be in tag
manages his babyfaces now to get what he's looking for
and get what he wants. He'll do that, but then
he'll rkl you after the match. So I mean, there's
there's something to be said for that kind of character,
and I think it works for him.

Speaker 3 (01:45:45):
You're listening to the PW Torch Live cast. This is
PW Torch Assistant editor James Caldwell hosting today with Torch
called Mister Greig Parks. If you want to jump on
the pull lines, give us a call to talk ECW.
I'm sorry, TNA is ECW raw tonight? You give us
a call at six four, six, seven to one, nine,
eight to eight, Greg, Well, we'll get at RAW tonight.

(01:46:09):
The big tag match announced is Sena and Brett Hart
returning from TV against Edge and Chris Jericho. What's your
h your prediction for how this plays out and how
it plays out pertaining to the team Sena team, we
Team Raw, whatever you want to call it, that team
for SummerSlam currently with five members, with Edge and Jericho

(01:46:32):
storyline wise leaving the team last week. Uh, what's your
what's your prediction for how this plays out of tonight's
show and doesn't then do they match it up even
seven on seven to the say five on seven two
new members Edge and Jericho back on the team. What's
what's your prediction for how it plays out tonight?

Speaker 11 (01:46:49):
Yeah, there's a lot of questions that have to be
answered even before the tag match, petually in the manufactur
of the show to night, and one of them is
do Jericho and Hatch get back on the team or
do they just not at all? Because I think it's
back on the team. I don't really see them having
a full flexed match. I don't really see that anyways
with Brett Hardt being part of the equation, or if
he has seen it, takes it and you know it's

(01:47:11):
a short match or whatever, probably next tous interference. But yeah,
who who fills the two man slot?

Speaker 5 (01:47:19):
Do they?

Speaker 11 (01:47:20):
You know, do they injure Brett Hart again and taking
him out of the match so they can replace him
with someone who can wrestle, which would take him out
not only out of SummerSlam, but also out of the
match in the main event tonight. You know, that's that's
risky because he just didn't angle a few months.

Speaker 3 (01:47:37):
Ago where you know, he was hit by a car.

Speaker 11 (01:47:39):
Would faked it. So I think a lot of people
if you try and take him out with an injury now,
might I think he's faking it again, So you know,
that's that's a risky to take. Or you know, does
he go through and participate in some form in the
match at SummerSlam. I'm not really sure what they have
in mind, but I really think we'll see one of

(01:47:59):
those non finishes that we've been seeing all too often
lately on w W E t V. I think they'll
probably with some nexts interference and then all of a
siden know what happens throughout the show As far as
who's the new the two members of Seeing a team,
who he gets to round out the rest of the
team with Edgend Jericho out, I.

Speaker 3 (01:48:18):
Get a feeling that in I guess I kind of
waiver back and forth and whether Edge and Jericho were gonna,
you know, be placed back in that team I'm gonna
turn into sort of you know, Evan Bourne, Mark Henry,
two guys like that.

Speaker 11 (01:48:36):
The risk of there is you're you're you're putting two
guys on the team were squashed by nex Tostexegal in
that seven on seven tournament. They're on a seven on
seven match, So that's that's another risk you have to
weigh if you're gonna name one of those guys on
the team in place of Edgend Jericho.

Speaker 3 (01:48:51):
Yeah, exactly right. And what you want born in the
Summer Flame is you want that audience to get a
sense that teams seen is on the same page. They're
they're ready, you know, they're ready to take the fight
to Nexus. There's been nine weeks of this, this group
of Brandon Gad's and rebels and Nexus running wild on
Law and they're you know, they're sort of you know,

(01:49:12):
it's the way they is presented it. They're threatening the
fate of the company. That's they kind of they hit
the right They hit a better tone last week than
a couple of weeks ago, and they're just way over
the top of that idea that Next is going to
take down the company. But uh, tonight's show needs to
be about Team seeing a back on the same page, strengthened,
and the audience ready to see them go in there

(01:49:35):
against Team Next and take a fight to them in SummerSlam.
There's no reason to order SummerSlam unless you believe that
Team's Sena can have a good fight with Nexus. Otherwise
it's just sort of a a TV angle. It feels
like a TV angle being presented on pay per view,
and that's not something that people are going to spend
forty five dollars a watch. So the what's the best
way to go about that? Is it Born and Henry,

(01:49:57):
Like you said, Greg, probably not because is they able
to squash on TV and they've been presented as jobbers
for the last three or four weeks. So do you
add edgend Jericho back to the mix, have them look
strong going in SummerSlam, and make it see them like
if they're a threat after making Nexus, after kind of
legitimizing Nexus for a couple of weeks, so that they're

(01:50:18):
both kind of on that even playing field where yeah,
this is an intriguing fight now I'm ready to pay money.

Speaker 5 (01:50:23):
To see it.

Speaker 3 (01:50:25):
So I'm really interested to see if they do put
Edgend Jericho back on that team, or if they find
another way to make Teams Seen to look strong going
into SummerSlam. I don't see any other way to end
this show other than teams Seen it looks strong. People
are ready to pay money for a fight.

Speaker 1 (01:50:50):
You don't have to wait for the weight Keller Pro
Wrestling post show to find out what I thought of
Monday Night Raw SmackDown. Each week, you can check out
my reports that are updated live throughout Raw and smack
Down at pwtorch dot com. My written report will tell
you what's happening in detail in case you missed the show,
and it will also analyze key segments and give my
random thoughts quips on what I am watching.

Speaker 3 (01:51:12):
As it airs.

Speaker 1 (01:51:13):
So check it out every Monday Night and Tuesday night
at pewtorch dot com. That also applies to WWE pay perviews.
I cover those live at pw torch dot com with
a detailed written report with star ratings, and of course
you can find other TV reports from other contributors to
pw torch such as nxt R, OH, Impact Wrestling and more.
Check it out pw torch dot com your first stop

(01:51:35):
for TV and pay per view written reports.

Speaker 11 (01:51:47):
What about what about recruiting from SmackDown that's a possib
guy SmackDown?

Speaker 3 (01:51:54):
Yeah? Who would you? Uh? Who are a couple of
names that kind of come to mind.

Speaker 11 (01:51:58):
You know, I'm just throwing that out there. I haven't
really thought about it, and you know, I don't know
if that's a viable angle or not, because they've portrayed
it as Nexus invading Raw and the Raw guys getting revenge,
not so much even dealing with SmackDown at all. NEXS
hasn't showed up on there, right, so you know, they
wouldn't have the SmackDown guys wouldn't have the same I

(01:52:20):
don't know, initiative to join this fight as the Raw
guys would, you know. But because that is that fourteen
man tag match is going to take up a lot
of the show. That means there's gonna be fewer matches,
So that means fewer SmackDown matches too, So you know,
we could see somebody getting thrown on there, Christians kind
of off with an injury angle. So I don't think

(01:52:41):
it would be him. I think it would beat a
couple of baby faces, but I'm not really sure. MVP
has not been portrayed as anything lately, especially you know
in that six man match, we're going to take the
pinfall on SmackDown this past Friday, so you know, we
could see a guy here or there, maybe from SmackDown.
I mean, it's a thought. It's something to consider, I

(01:53:05):
guess when thinking of who would take those two s thoughts.
But the only other really option I could think of
is Egendjerrich are rejoining the team.

Speaker 3 (01:53:13):
Yeah, and perhaps that's why you know Bradhrt's involved in
this tag match, and perhaps we get a reveal tonight,
either a mastermind behind Nexus, if they ever go that route,
they might just stick with Wade Barrett is just he's
a leader and there's no mastermind, no one pulling the strings,
or we get a rod Gem reveal that's a possibility

(01:53:35):
as well to kind of piece it all together. Greg,
you just made a reveal tonight, or do you say
that probably we're gonna be saved for after Summer Slam.

Speaker 11 (01:53:45):
I would say more likely after Summer Slam. This is
you know, you're trying to sell the pay per views here,
You're trying to sell that fourteen man match. You don't
want that to come across to viewers that as the
second most important thing they come away with tonight. I
think if you reveal the power be or the general Manager,
I think if it's memorable enough for they'll stick in
the fans minds more so than Summer Slam. And I

(01:54:06):
really think you want to be devoting this show to
pluging Summer Slam and getting the virus, especially with the
second quarter financials that just came in on this past week. Uh,
you know, you really want to be heavy on a
Summer Slam hype and don't waste your time, you know,
having a bigger reveal that you've built up over months
when you're also trying to plug the pay per view.

Speaker 10 (01:54:27):
So I would wait till after.

Speaker 3 (01:54:28):
Yeah, good point there. Let's go and grab another phone
call to join the ww and TNA discussion. If you
want to join us in the phone line, the number
to call is six four, six, seven one, nine eight eight.
Let's go to the seven three area code. Seven oh three.
Welcome to the show. Please say you jaming? Where you're from?

Speaker 6 (01:54:48):
Oh?

Speaker 5 (01:54:49):
Hey, guys, it's later from Atlanta.

Speaker 3 (01:54:50):
Hey, Larry, good to hear from you. What do you
have to say? Hey, just said two questions for.

Speaker 22 (01:54:56):
You guys on a TNA and UH and parkour justice?

Speaker 3 (01:55:01):
Probably not, Probably don't spend a lot of time in
the first one.

Speaker 22 (01:55:04):
But do you think anyone who was on that card,
who's been out of sort of the national scene, did
anything to merit another look at being a national player,
whether you know, in TNA or in another company, Greg.

Speaker 3 (01:55:21):
Did anybody come to mind for you?

Speaker 2 (01:55:24):
No?

Speaker 11 (01:55:26):
I guess the closest thing I could think of maybe Scorpio.

Speaker 3 (01:55:30):
Yeah, he decent, But.

Speaker 11 (01:55:35):
That would be a bad idea. You know, I don't
think this is this shouldn't be a show that you're
looking at the Okay, who can we add to the roster,
especially if you TNA?

Speaker 5 (01:55:45):
I agree?

Speaker 22 (01:55:46):
Oh, I agree fully, I agree fully.

Speaker 4 (01:55:48):
I was just wondering, if.

Speaker 5 (01:55:50):
You know, I mean it is TNA.

Speaker 22 (01:55:52):
Yeah, I know.

Speaker 11 (01:55:53):
I don't think anyone did enough to surprise to really
blow anyone. I think it was just taken some one
of the references to blow someone and then management out
of the water with their performance. And while a couple
of guys looked at I don't think there was anybody
worth signing to any kind of contract.

Speaker 3 (01:56:08):
Yeah, I agree with that. You know, Scorpio is the
closest one, but you need to add Do you really
need to add him to the roster? No, you need
to get youngery. Yeah, exactly not necessary. You need to
get younger, not older. And TENA is a promotion that
has gotten older more than younger throughout throughout his history.
And last that show for a prime example, it was

(01:56:29):
a reunion show, but still it was a TEENA promoted event. Yeah,
Scorpio might be the only one who TNA. I mean, well,
I don't want to say that. The TNA might take
a look at anybody on that show and say, oh
this say could bring something to the table that ninety
a half percent of people would disagree with. But from
a realistic standpoint of who could contribute, Scorpio probably is

(01:56:50):
the number one potential contributor going forward, but I wouldn't
I wouldn't recommend adding him. He just they neded to
get younger, not older. So Larry was your your second question?

Speaker 11 (01:57:02):
Uh yeah, hey, thanks guys.

Speaker 22 (01:57:04):
Well, also sort of analogous to that, And I don't
mean to sort of imply that TNA needs to retread
anything they tried to emulate with the presentation, but seeing
how you know, the lighting was different, you.

Speaker 5 (01:57:18):
Know, the angles, the camera angles were different, did you, guys.

Speaker 22 (01:57:21):
See anything that you think maybe TNA should borrow moving forward,
like attempting to you know, keep using you know, certain
angles or certain techniques.

Speaker 3 (01:57:31):
Right, what do you think?

Speaker 2 (01:57:34):
Not really?

Speaker 11 (01:57:35):
I mean the difference was certainly noticeable to anyone who's
watched DNA and then watched the paper view last night.
I don't think that they were any kind of I
think it was it was an attempt to make it
more look like ECW, and it worked. I think that
was one of the highlights the show actually was the presentation,
as far as it did look like you were seeing
an ETW show, But there was nothing that that they did.

(01:57:59):
I don't think that that really warrants down. It's almost
the same situation that is ef. It was nice for
one night, but I don't think it was anything that
they should invest time and money in making permanent. You know,
they tried to make it look like a like an
ECW atmosphere. They succeeded, and you know now they should

(01:58:19):
go back to doing what they're doing as far as
presentation goes. There are things they could change as far
as their presentation. I don't think switching to anything that
is last night is going to be the answer.

Speaker 3 (01:58:29):
I think one thing to incorporate was something simple that
required no production value changes, no lighting changes, no blue light,
no crowd a different look to the crowd. The one
thing was formal ring intros for every match and to
make every match that happens on teenage programs seem important

(01:58:51):
and not just everyone. I'm throwing something out there. I
mean I realized last Time show they did the formal
ring intros a to get everybody's name on the broadcast.
Be to stretch time. I mean, it's a lot of
the show with filler to stretch us out to three hours.
But those formal ring intros should be incorporated into every
single TNA show. I think it adds. I mean, if

(01:59:15):
if you're presenting an a credible wrestling show. It adds
so much value to the value of a wrestling match.
When you have the formal ring intro, you put all
the focus to all the attention on the match itself.
I don't care if it's a knockout to match, attacks,
out of match, TV to of match, and it wouldn't
have enough time for all if they did that, exactly

(01:59:36):
what would be for from the CUTA. I know, I
know what you're saying, Greg, it would be impossible for
TEENA to incorporate this, but in a vacuum and a
realistic and in promotion that was realistically trying to promote wrestling, Yes,
that would be one thing I would say is incorporate
the formal ring intros. Make rusty important. But since the TNA,

(01:59:57):
where I mean they're actually a promoting a show on
Thursday where the one of the selling points is we're
not gonna have any interviews. That's a selling point for
show and that just shows so they just A they
don't get it, and B it's like the promos are
bad thing or something. But if you present them in

(02:00:19):
a way that is credible and enhances the matches, it's
a good thing, So that would be my wedding at Larry.
But anything else, like Greg said, nothing else comes to mind, anything.

Speaker 22 (02:00:33):
Else that's wow, Oh yeah, sure, I not even a question,
but I just wanted to co sign with I think
the four two four aery coach you talked to earlier
who said that, Yeah, it's sort of a machine that
there's a lot of realism lost in in how things
are presented now, and it's you know, it's obviously interesting

(02:00:53):
hearing you know, everyone go, well, you know, if w
W or TAR more of an extent, t Anda could
rediscover that that you could really get some some strong,
some strong content on TV. But it just seems like
even before UFC got hot and became a national phenomenon,
that wrestling really walked away from whatever reason, you know,

(02:01:16):
Vince McMahon not liking the whole formula anymore, whatever, but
it really walked away from the sort of one you know,
mono amano grudge match, you know, really focusing on the
athleticism but also the stories of you know, who can
beat whom, and they really just seem to step away
from that and really moved toward the soap opera.

Speaker 3 (02:01:36):
Yeah, Greg, what's your reaction to that.

Speaker 11 (02:01:39):
Yeah, yeah, I agree that that's the way they've gone.
You know, I don't really see that changing anytime soon.
I don't know if it's you know, well, we kind
of hit upon the matches not looking as realistic as
say MMA or something like that. There may be them
those of the pro users say okay, why try to
make it look as realistic as possible. They'll still them

(02:02:00):
off at second rate compared to MMA, So, you know,
not really embrace the fact that it's scripted, but not
do everything that they would need to do to make
it look realistic, because then in their minds, I'll always
come in second place to what is really real at
being MMA. So it's going to take some attitude changes
within full companies to turn things around in that regard.

Speaker 23 (02:02:31):
Are you a fan of AW looking to sit back,
relax and listen to some like minded podcasters who share
your passion.

Speaker 6 (02:02:38):
Do you want to be topped off the ledge after
a segment that has you wondering what the heck are
they thinking?

Speaker 23 (02:02:43):
Do you want to join a discussion on what AW
is doing right and what they could do to improve,
Then join me Joel and.

Speaker 6 (02:02:50):
Me Greg for the all of the Conversation Club every
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torch in your podcast app and subscribe to pw torch
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Speaker 3 (02:03:18):
Yeah, I echo what Greg said. Good thoughts there, Larry?
Anything else for today?

Speaker 22 (02:03:24):
No, no, thank thanks so much and I'll definitely go
back and hold and keep enjoying the lodcast.

Speaker 3 (02:03:29):
All right, we appray sure the call is always Larry. Good.
Good to have you on the show. Let's go ahead
and grab another caller. Let's go to the nine five
four area code nine five four. Welcome to the show.
Please say jam me where you're from.

Speaker 5 (02:03:42):
Mike from Florida.

Speaker 3 (02:03:44):
Hey, Mike, what for us today? I just had a question.

Speaker 2 (02:03:48):
You know how WWS has the rights to all the
ECW videos and stuff?

Speaker 3 (02:03:53):
Sure? How is our video able.

Speaker 2 (02:03:57):
To sell like all those old ECW DVDs? I mean
how I was able to do this?

Speaker 3 (02:04:02):
Are you talking about the fan cam?

Speaker 7 (02:04:04):
Uh?

Speaker 3 (02:04:04):
Sort of in those final final months of ECW, the
fan cam DVDs? Yeah, and they show like a bunch
of dusts. Also, I mean, Greg, throw you if you
know more about it. I just know about the fan
cam and now they filmed one of the wide events
that were in the very end of ECW his life.

(02:04:26):
What do you know? Do you know more about it? Greg?

Speaker 8 (02:04:29):
No, that's all.

Speaker 11 (02:04:30):
I'm aware that the r F is selling as well
as the fan cam footage, and uh, you know, I
think that's I don't know that the gray area as
far as we would own that footage, because you know,
the footage is obviously owned by the person who takes it,
and since they're not working for anyone else, I mean
they it's theirs, but they're also filming, you know, property

(02:04:52):
of WWE at this point, so I don't know if
that's a great area or what. But I do know
fancam footage in the past, when when the top has
come up for whatever reason, then that's still allowed to
be out there.

Speaker 10 (02:05:02):
I'm sure ww knows about it, so.

Speaker 11 (02:05:04):
It's not like it's they're overlooking it or something, right.

Speaker 3 (02:05:08):
Yeah, I just know about the fan cam stuff, So
I think with a you're talking about best ofs like
old ECW TV episodes or or WWS type.

Speaker 2 (02:05:17):
On their website, there's still like a bunch of you know,
ecw TV and then like you know, you can get
like that's the stanm in you know whatever, like on DVD.

Speaker 3 (02:05:27):
Yeah, I mean it could be. Uh, I don't want
to I don't want to excuse you want a bootleg,
you know. I just I don't know if it's that,
or if it's someone's old VHS tapes that they transferred
to DVD, or if there is some sort of gray
area like Greg said, and some arrangement with WWE and
w B acquired a certain a certain set of footage,

(02:05:47):
but perhaps there's some sort of gray area where our
video can sell that. I don't know anything beyond the
fancam stuff, so I can't get to a completely answer
on that.

Speaker 2 (02:05:56):
Mike, all right, O'm just a woman question. Also, I
heard last night that Shabu was supposed to fight Salmon.
Did anything happen or I mean, because I didn't actually
watched the pay per views, I think it was.

Speaker 3 (02:06:09):
Probably a situation where they had to reshuffle the card
and interfusing. With Jerry Lynn going down with the injury,
they needed somebody to face RBD Arbady Taboo and a
lot of history in ECW and you know, perhaps Sandman
was left out and based on the shape that he
was in, maybe it was a good thing that he
was not in a match last night. I haven't heard it.

(02:06:31):
If it's any other reason other than just they need
to reshuffle the deck on some of their top two
matches or top two or three matches, Greg, would you
venture against them another reason why they might have scratched
sad move versus Sandman from the lineup.

Speaker 11 (02:06:46):
Well, I was kind of gonna say something that he
said was Francis for the best that Sandman wasn't in
a match because he did not like to perform an
actual match. So it looks like he needed to lean
on the ropes to keep himself upright when he interfered.
Uh after I believe it was just Incredibles match, right.

Speaker 18 (02:07:05):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (02:07:07):
Yeah, Well, it took an extended period of time for
the lights to come back on. Uh you know, whatever
the Q is, they say, Okay, sam Man's in the ring,
now let's turn the lights back on. Uh that that
whole moment of darkness lasted longer than usual. So perhaps he,
I don't know, maybe missed a que or he was
slow getting in the ring. I would venture to guests

(02:07:28):
to say slow get into the ring based on his condition,
So I just you know, I think it was for
the best. So they went with rb D Saboo considering
Jerry Lynn's injury and Saboo's uh pensful condition, So that's
probably why they went that route. Mike, Okay, I'll home
and either a question or follow up for us today,

(02:07:49):
not just thanks you all right, we'd appreciate the call, Mike.
Good good to hear from you. Greg currently going on
in Orlando. I guess they did. They just wrapped this
up the Impact TV tape for Thursday's Whole fin Show special.
Jason Pallaproskan dot net. He has a spoiler report up
and he has a correspondence. He had a correspondence and

(02:08:11):
then the spoilers from the taping. I won't I'm trying
to figure out how the best approach this because there
was a they're rather significant angle at the end of
the the episode though air on Thursday. Six matches and
no promos, but there will be a big angle. But anyways,
let's I'll just throw this question out there without trying

(02:08:32):
to give away the spoilers. Does E CW belong in
TNA and a long term storyline. Do they need to
be on TV as part of a continuing angle or
do you think last night should have been the end
of ECW quote unquote, you know, the EV two point
zero group. Should last night have been the end of

(02:08:52):
their involvement or can you get an angle out of
them on TNA TV.

Speaker 11 (02:08:58):
You know, it's funny when when we first heard that
they were going to do with some sort of ECW angle,
it sounded like it was going to be a long
term thing, and people were like, oh, this is a mistake.
And then when they came in and didn't invade and
they said that, you know, they just wanted one last standoff,
were like, Okay, this is a little more tolerable.

Speaker 10 (02:09:15):
Uh huh.

Speaker 11 (02:09:16):
And now, you know, with things that are looking like
they're going to be happening here in the coming weeks,
you know, it looks like they may be around a
little longer.

Speaker 3 (02:09:27):
Uh.

Speaker 11 (02:09:28):
Not trying to get so much away here. But I
think that's a mistake. We saw last night why that
would be a mistake because whatever angle you're going to
have to run, you're likely going to educate off with
a match, and you know, unless unless it's Rob van
Dam fighting for the honor of the ECW guys. I
really don't know what they could do redeemable in their ring.

(02:09:52):
And you know, if they go toe to toe, if
there's any any way that they do is split down
the middle that ECW and TNA, and you know ECW
guys end up getting the better of the TNA guys. Boy,
that's gonna looks really bad.

Speaker 2 (02:10:03):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 5 (02:10:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:10:05):
And that's that's the key to this whole thing when
it first started, was that it made the tena roster
look like heels, maybe faces heels alike. They all look
elish And you know, WW kind of did that deal
with JBL and other heels opposing the ECW group in

(02:10:26):
two thousand and five as sort of a way to
set up the East Reunion show, the One night Stand show.
But it was heels. It was since let's take our
I mean, John Cena was gonna be heal in East
w uh setting no matter what. But they didn't intentionally
take all the entire roster and present them as heels
opposite the EASTW. They selected heels, and that running deal

(02:10:49):
a month ago made the entire teen roster look like heels,
and it was almost like, if you remove ECW from
the equation, you're loft with a bunch of unlikable guys
who got run over by HW guys who were over
the hill five years ago, and they were at the
the end of their career five years ago, So what
does that say about your own roster? And now it

(02:11:12):
seems like they might be going in that direction again,
perhaps a little bit different, perhaps mainly focusing on just
heels opposite ECW guys. But I just I don't see
them the wisdom in presenting a a long term feud
involving the EW group and people in the teenage roster.

(02:11:34):
I just they need to move on.

Speaker 2 (02:11:37):
You know.

Speaker 3 (02:11:37):
It's just next TOS is younger wrestlers who have their
entire future ahead of them. EASTW is older guys whose
entire future is behind them. They have according to.

Speaker 11 (02:11:48):
Next to the group of young punks. And then and
then Kazarian loses in Kerry later in the show.

Speaker 3 (02:11:56):
So yeah, you know, yeah, no, where what does that show?

Speaker 5 (02:12:00):
You know?

Speaker 3 (02:12:00):
I know, exactly, Yeah, I mean it's just little things
like that that I don't think TNA picks up on
that they just missed because it seems like three people
write the show and they don't put the pizzas together
ahead of time. It's just, you know, you got what
you squeezed the lemon. You got all the juice out

(02:12:21):
of women last night on the paper here. There wasn't
a whole lot of juice last in out Women, So
why are you going to try to revisit that with
a sort of TNA versus E CW angle. I just
I don't see the wisdom in that, and you know,
I'll be glad to proven wrong. I'll be glad to
see the east If if ten A is going to

(02:12:42):
keep the East Inde guys around for longer than last
night's show, then I'll try, you know, I'm willing to
give them the benefit of the down to create something
compelling that's not just you know Stevie Richards and a
bits and therapy sessions. That was her indous TV for
six months, that few that just dragged on forever with

(02:13:02):
you know, Stevie Richards and Daphne and Abyss and you
know before that it was relic in gold Dust and
you know, just nonsensical storylines. But I just, you know,
I don't see the marriage in this and I'm hoping
to be proved wrong in this because I don't. I
just don't see it. I really don't. So any other

(02:13:25):
thoughts on the proposed East versus TNA type of angle
that appears to be in the works going forward.

Speaker 11 (02:13:34):
Uh not really.

Speaker 3 (02:13:36):
I think I've said yeah, yeah, it'll always say how
it plays out, and we'll see how. I'm just gonna
you know, I'm trying to reveal everything that's gonna happen
on Thursday because some people want to actually feel like
that that whole weapons show, uh special, it's gonna be
like a live pay per view when it's not love
taping it right now or they just taste it. But

(02:13:56):
Dixie Carter is involved in the angle, believe because she's
now a TV star even though it's real, everything is
real that she's evolved in. She's now pretty much gonna
get into a TV character on the storylines fans to
keep her interested. It seems like in this vanity promotion
that's you know, designed for one person.

Speaker 11 (02:14:19):
I cannot I cannot wait till her heel turn jams.
That is gonna be a.

Speaker 5 (02:14:25):
Gosh.

Speaker 11 (02:14:27):
I'm just trying to take an ad because you know,
it's gonna have them give it two months.

Speaker 16 (02:14:30):
I bet h.

Speaker 3 (02:14:34):
Oh, Greg, you just put you put the train on
the on Uh you put the brakes on the train
right there.

Speaker 10 (02:14:39):
Uh sorry about that, but.

Speaker 11 (02:14:42):
That was the first thing that came to mind. That
was the first TV came to mind when he said
she's now a TV character, because that's you know, that's
what t NA does. I mean, it turns every month,
and uh yeah, that's sort of thing.

Speaker 3 (02:14:53):
So she she just looks so awkward when she's on
TV unless she has a beer in her hand, and
then I guess all her inhibition away or something. But
I mean just watching her live doing that, you know,
the big brawl four weeks ago, and then she comes
out there on stage and says, I invited them. I
invited them. She looked so nervous, and she did not

(02:15:14):
look like she belonged on TV when she did that.
I mean I was right there in the building. Or
I mean, she does not look like someone who belongs
on TV. I hate to say it, but it's reality.
And other people are gonna tell, oh, no, you're great
on TV, Dick. So you're doing a great job. Keep
keep it up. You know, they know the game is
played and now with I mean, maybe he'll turn into

(02:15:36):
the best thing for her because she can actually be
a character and not trying to be this person who's
on TV. He doesn't belong on TV, So who knows,
Maybe he'll turn will be the best for her character.
I'm glad that Yeah, good idea, Greg.

Speaker 1 (02:15:54):
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Speaker 3 (02:16:38):
We'll see how it plays on Thursday. I'm it means
it's like a last day's pay per view there was
a big curiosity factor for a number of different reasons.
So now Thursday show bake treosity factor for a number
of different reasons to see how this plays out. Well,
we'll see. I mean it feels like another sort of
one of those short term almost like you know, when

(02:16:59):
they had the screwjob, the Montreal screwjob angle with Hogan
and Hogan angle, remember that one Greg back in January
that yeah you're up again and that last it about
uh what three weeks? Four weeks? The big payoff was
we have Earl Hebner and ww doesn't.

Speaker 11 (02:17:17):
I think the payoff of getting suspended.

Speaker 3 (02:17:22):
Yeah for about a week. But that's what this is.
What TNA does. They instead of trying to build long
term storylines, it seems very short term driven, you know,
three weeks, four weeks, five weeks, you know, sort of
bite size storylines that lead to no payoff and then

(02:17:42):
they have to reset everything and and find another short
term angle. It's a perhaps pop a little bit of interest,
get people interested for a couple of weeks, and then
there's no payoffs and the ratings drop again and they
come up with another sort of short term idea. It's
just a cycle. That would stuff. I mean, there was Hogan,
Hogan and Abyss and you had h flaring, Abyss flair

(02:18:05):
and lethal. That was a major storyline and now it's
just sort of faded into the background. So here we
are again with you know, short term big pop interest
storyline number seven hundred of the year. So I don't know,
I mean, I don't know what to make of this company.
I just don't. I just I don't. I don't know
what to make of it. So I'm kind of the loss.

(02:18:26):
But oh boy, bring any other any other TEENA related thoughts,
either on the whole upon show, a special No Surrender
coming up in I Guess what a month now, and
last night's paper view, anything else time TEENA that we
need to touch on in the live cast set.

Speaker 11 (02:18:48):
Just that you know, they're having a full line up
this tweek on Impact and kind of advertising it as
a pay per view quality lineup, which I mean one
could argue they put on quite a bitually on impact.
So the thing to remember is we're not going to
see pay per viewed length matches because it's two hours

(02:19:08):
and it's commercials in there, so you know you're gonna
get the matches the pay per view quality lineup maybe,
but you're not going to see them go fifteen minutes
or twenty minutes. Generally speaking, you might get one or
two to go to that length, but it's it's good

(02:19:29):
that they're going to go wrestling heavy and try and
fit as much wrestling on the show as they can.
You know, no backstage tough no, no, you know that
kind of thing that they're so known for. But you know,
a word of warning, don't go in there expecting, you know,
twenty minutes matches, you know, three or four of them,
because it's just not going to happen with with the

(02:19:51):
matches they have, the number of matches they have lined
up and you know, ha having to fit them in
a two hour window, an hour and a half if
you count commercials.

Speaker 3 (02:19:58):
So yeah, it's you know, the machine guns and beer money.
It's two or three falls that's gonna go a while
a Jane Angele, you know, probably about ten minutes something.
The other matches will you know, are bed and the
bits will probably get you know, fifteen plus minutes with
being the main event and being a title match, but

(02:20:18):
like you said, right, the rest of it sort of
TV length matches presented as pay per view worthy, and
you know that's you know, it's fine to a certain extent,
but like you said, set realistic expectations going into that,
because not every match is going to go ten or
fifteen minutes. Some of they are going to go four minutes,
five minutes, six minutes or eight minutes, and.

Speaker 5 (02:20:42):
You know, it is what it is.

Speaker 3 (02:20:44):
So it's bit about five minutes left in the show,
we'll want to go ahead and give up the phone
number it's going to join us in the last portion
of the show before Raw, So I'm gonna call it
a six four six, seven to two one nine eight
two eight and a reminder of p to b torch
dot com. We'll have all be live coverage of Raw
tonight back live after last week's show was a taped episode,

(02:21:06):
so we'll be covering the final of the final lead
into Summer Slam on tonight's Raw with like I said
to Brett Hart and John Cena versus, I'm sorry not
Rainy Orton Edge and Chris Shieri. Coming event was probably
an angle built into that to set up SummerSlam. And
be sure to check out pub torch dot com with
a ton of stories in the last forty eight hours

(02:21:28):
or so, some backstage news on TNA, a lot of
WWE related news, some news on Bobby Lashley and the
latest on Dave, thetists of possibly going to MMA, as
well as Lynda McMahon. And she has her big election
coming up tomorrow in the primary election for the Republicans
in Connecticut, and she will be profiled on Dateline tonight

(02:21:48):
on ABC, and as well, John Cena will be appearing
on Fox's Where the Team Choice Awards I believe it
is presenting in the War that was taped last night,
and w Rustlers will be appearing on The George Lopez
Show this week. So all the details and all those
big TV appearances are on p tw B toorch dot
com right now. Briggs wasn't a manage. She is back

(02:22:12):
in the news of course this week with the election tomorrow. Uh,
what's what's your impression of what her chances are in
tomorrow's election.

Speaker 11 (02:22:20):
I'll be watching you closely. You know, we've seen the
polls come in close to her favor now the last
couple of weeks, so it's you know, it's gonna be
interesting to see how she does. I don't have really
high expectations but I think that would be one of
the biggest news stories in the years if she did.
If she did win there and then you know, go

(02:22:43):
on to win the actual seats. So it's it's I
don't know, you know, something to definitely keep your eye on.
With her out of WWE, it's not that big of
a news story, and you know, if this doesn't succeed,
that she keeps trying to continue in politics, if she
go back to WWE or what you know, So that's
something forward to.

Speaker 3 (02:23:04):
Yeah, I mean, I anticipate she's probably gonna win tomorrow's
Republican election go on to November. I you know, right
now it doesn't feel like she's gonna win November against Willmenthal,
but stranger things have happened and she has proven to
be somewhat resilient via I mean, I would argue money
from covering this election process for a year now. Money

(02:23:27):
has helped her get to where she is. I mean
it's realistically where her main beneficiary has been the money
from w B, which is why it's so relevant to
continue covering how she got her money as former CEO.
So fascinating news to cover tomorrow all out beyond peptors
dot com with all the coverage of whether she wins
the Republican primary, and of course, if you're interested in

(02:23:50):
a Torch VP membership to get the audio roundtable with Wade,
Bruce and Pat covering last night's pay per view. All
that good information plus this week's PI TOS newsletter that'll
be out tomorrow or Wednesday. Pwtorch dot com, slash go
vip Greg. Thanks for joining me on the livecast today
and thanks dot com for live coverage of Raw coming

(02:24:13):
up next.

Speaker 1 (02:24:21):
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