15 YRS AGO LIVECASTS: Cena-Barrett issue, is Sting a legit Top 50 star, Michaels-HOF, Goldberg or Sting in WWE speculation, Pillman, more

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
We are running our second VIP sale of the year.
You want to take advantage of this. If you've thought
of going VIP or let your sublaps, had to step
away for a while, it's a good time to come back.
Pw toorch dot com slash go Vip tells you about
VIP membership. There is a link to our order form
and you can choose a one month or three month
subscription and you can take nine dollars off any of

(00:22):
those three options. The coupon code is Nov. Twenty twenty
five as in November Nov twenty twenty five to take
nine dollars off. That brings a one month sub down
to three dollars and ninety nine cents. That is a
full VIP membership. That means you unlock nearly four decades
of archives, one hundreds of retro radio shows from the nineties,
two decades and more of podcasts on demand, along with

(00:44):
an ad free website, add free versions of our free podcasts,
and a bunch of VIP exclusive features, including podcasts that
are compatible with the Apple Podcast native app and many
other Android and iobs apps, and also the new Wadekeller
news bulletins that come in three formats, a PDF that's
great on a tablet or a laptop screen, an all
text version which is great to read on your phone,
and a podcast version. These run about sixteen minutes in

(01:06):
terms of podcast length, and it is a new feature.
I'm running two, three four times a week. I'm going
to try to increase that as my schedule adjust to
this new feature. So check it out. PW torch dot
com slash go vip coupon code n ov twenty twenty
five to take nine dollars off a one month, three
month or one year sub.

Speaker 2 (01:36):
Now.

Speaker 3 (01:37):
PW Torch and Spreaker bring you the Wade Keller Pro
Wrestling Podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:46):
On today's Way Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast from Monday, December fifteenth,
twenty twenty five. We're jumping back fifteen years to a
double header of shows from December tenth and December thirteenth,
twenty ten. First up, James Caldwell is joined by PW
Torch nostalgia specialist Brian Hoops to talk about the previous
night's impact, breaking news on viewership for Impact, and some
nostalgia topics on Brian Pillman Raven The Original, The Origin

(02:09):
of Ring Ropes, classic matches that stand the test of time.
Interesting topic and also whether Sting would fit in a
real top fifty stars list in pro wrestling, a familiar
topic given our sidebar last week. Also, Johnson has a
face of WWB, cage matches and more. In the previously
VIP exclusive after show, James Brian talked about the AWA

(02:30):
King Curtis Iaquia, superstar Billy Graham's career and whether he
would have held the w title without steroids, and a
twenty years ago flashback which is now only thirty five
years ago flashback with news results and more on the
nineteen ninety era. Then, on the December thirteenth, twenty ten episode,
James Caltle was joined by PW Torch senior column mister
Bruce Mitchell, and they discussed with live callers the three
hour row format and a better way to utilize the

(02:51):
three hour format, whether w would t Shawn Michaels for
the Hall of Fame, whether giving away a big reunion
on Tribute to the Troops counts, how WWE would use
Goldberg or Sting in twenty ten or twenty eleven if
they were to come in. Also TLC pay per view hype,
The John Cena Wade Barrett issue with accurate predictions by
the way, Kurt Angle, Simojo, Jeff Jarrett and TNA and

(03:11):
more so. Again, this is our fifteen years ago flashback.

Speaker 3 (03:15):
You're listening to the PW Torch live cast. This this
PW Torch Assistant editor James Caldwell Ocean Today on What
Days Today the thirteenth of December twenty ten, joined today
by Torch Columbus Bruce Mitchell. Bruce are you today?

Speaker 4 (03:30):
I'm doing fond, wonderful, bad, beautiful some Monday.

Speaker 3 (03:36):
It's a mundane Monday.

Speaker 4 (03:37):
Yeah, I'm really hoping that I'll win a slamming din.

Speaker 3 (03:43):
What category?

Speaker 4 (03:46):
I'm not cooking?

Speaker 3 (03:49):
Let me look at my score sheet here, Shaker of
the Year, Knucklehead of the Year, Despicable Me award. How
about the guest Star Shiny Moment of the Year or
the Meltdown the Year or the Moment of the year.
Firstly I would take the what would I take? H

(04:10):
how about the Meltdown the Year? I like that one's fun.

Speaker 4 (04:14):
Well, I've listened to the show several times, so yeah,
you might be up to that.

Speaker 3 (04:20):
Are you contributor to that award? First?

Speaker 4 (04:23):
Contribute to it? If I if I put any pressure
on you, James.

Speaker 3 (04:28):
I think that actually, I think the meltdown the year
would have to be our our exchange. How many weeks
ago was that a couple of like four or five
weeks ago when we had that long debate on the
pay per views and how to rate them with that,
I think it was the last month.

Speaker 4 (04:43):
Yeah, yeah, when you when you said it was okay
to rate TNA on a curve, and factually you were
just standing up for two other people who very cowardly
didn't join this conversation at least, you know, on this night.
But no, yeah, that's what you said. I don't know,
I didn't.

Speaker 3 (05:03):
No, no, no, no, I just just.

Speaker 5 (05:05):
Let it go.

Speaker 6 (05:06):
Man.

Speaker 4 (05:07):
Far Tonight just doesn't seem right.

Speaker 3 (05:10):
See this hands me upset, not not because of Far,
because the Texans are actually on Monday Night football in Houston,
and all I'm seeing on ESPN all day that is
Brett far Brett Far Brett Farr. So I'm a little
bit upset. Actually I'm a lot upset, But I'm gonna
keep myself in check. So, I mean, it's not it's
not like it happens every week where the Texans got

(05:31):
on Monday Night Football and all I'm seeing is Brett
Farr So I'm sick of it.

Speaker 4 (05:35):
Anyway, Well, you know, if you played better, you might
be on Monday Night Football. Everyone. I know, I can't
say anything because you're you're You're a Texas Longhorns played
so well this year that they got their coach. Their
coach is going to Florida.

Speaker 3 (05:49):
I know, I like, I hate football this year, like
it's been the worst calendar year ever. So anyways, we've
got we had a raw show to talk about. On
a brighter note, anything is brighter than Texas football this year.
Three hours of a Slammy's Edition final height for the
TLC pay per view, which I'll be at on Sunday

(06:10):
covering inside the building. Bruce, you got a lot of
I would say, sub items. There's like a major item
for tonight's show, and I don't think the Slammys has
enough height behind it to be a major item the
way Barrick John Cena thing that's kind of in the
background a little bit the TLC pay per views in
the background, is there a the Divas Better Royal has

(06:34):
been announced? That's our only match announce Uh, Bruce, what's
the headline of tonight's show, is it the slammis or
is it something else?

Speaker 4 (06:41):
Here's the headline, stee wretch. They have thirty hours to kill.
They don't have enough material to do it, but they
can stretch those awards stee wretch. Yeah. I mean, oh,
but you know you got the Cliffshiger of Does does
John Fonnye come back? Yeah? From up always because the
even weaker members of Nexus want want Wade bart To

(07:05):
to bring him back somehow. I mean, I hope that's
not it. I hopefully they've got some terms in my
story and that's not how he not how he comes back.
But maybe they've thrown up their hands and figured that
want seeing those exactly, you know, knock them down at
the house shows. But we'll see that. But there's got
to be a better way to get them back in
than that.

Speaker 3 (07:23):
Yeah, I mean, do you think that by you tonight
show Brews that seeing it will be back on you know,
back in tack on TV, back in the company, rehide
or whatever in the storyline, and they'll be in a
match of the TLC pay per view on Sunday. I mean,
are they gonna go that quickly to him being rehired tonight.

Speaker 4 (07:41):
I mean, I think that they want to end this
sooner rather than later. But I think you do it
in a lot more dramatic way then the bad guys
squabble among themselves and make you and the bad guys
are the one who make the bad guys, you know,
give in. I find that I find that hard to believe. So,
I mean I've seen more. I mean I've seen more
so seem worse than the last week, you know. Yeah,

(08:04):
I find that hard to believe. Yeah, I mean I think,
you know, I think it's a kind of flipphangers at
and you know, I doubt will find that out past,
you know, before nine o'clock, because there's a whole group
of people that have forgotten that we're on seven o'clock
because they're on the other clock, because I forgot that
they're off on an a.

Speaker 3 (08:22):
So yeah, I mentioned the first hour will be the
sort of that Santino Couslow sort of undercarved filler comedy attempts,
you know, just the stuff that doesn't really matter, and
then whatever else does matter, they'll just recap at the
top of the second hour. So yeah, that that first hour,
I mean, there were all show, Bruce. I mean they're

(08:42):
up against you know, two football games. I mean obviously
a lot of people are kind of snowed in around
the country, so that's going to help their ratings. What
what what's the realistic number for tonight's show, Bruce? I mean,
is it about what they had done for the previous two?
Is it gonna be a drop off for tonight show?

Speaker 4 (08:59):
But say a three point zero and a three point
two in the two normal hours?

Speaker 6 (09:06):
Yeah, I don't.

Speaker 4 (09:07):
I don't see that. I don't see that the patterns
changing any in any great way. They're a little ffter.
The football games are okay. I mean, you know the
Minnesota games is only in two markets right then, you know,
I don't.

Speaker 6 (09:21):
I don't know that.

Speaker 4 (09:22):
It's like a no, no, no, it's that big a deal. Also,
I think they I think they have their normal, their
normal three hour writings.

Speaker 1 (09:31):
Yeah, you don't have to wait for the Way Killer
Pro Wrestling post show to find out what I thought
of Monday Night Raw and SmackDown. Each week, you can
check out my reports that are updated live throughout Raw
and SmackDown at pw torch dot com. My written report
will tell you what's happening in detail in case you

(09:52):
missed the show, and it will also analyze key segments
and give my random thoughts quips on what I am
watching as it airs. So check it out every Monday
night and Tuesday night at pw torch dot com. That
also applies to WWE pay per views. I cover those
live at pw torch dot com with a detailed written
report with star ratings, and of course you can find

(10:13):
other TV reports from other contributors to pw torch such
as nxt roh, Impact Wrestling and more. Check it out
pw torch dot com your first stop for TV and
pay per view written reports.

Speaker 3 (10:33):
Yeah, you know, I mean it seems like the last
one for the King of the Ring, that one that
radio show went up. So it wasn't that erosion for
the second three hour show in a period of two
weeks Tonight's show. You know, the slammings, it attracts potentially,
it attracts an audience that you know, that could lead

(10:54):
to a higher ratio, I'll put it that way, and
it doesn't, you know, it just that kind of attract
the you know, there's a great natchman advertised for tonight's show. Audience.
It's sort of the variety show kind of audience. Oh,
let's tune in for something interesting and fun, that casual audience,
and that might help them with tonight's show. But I mean,
I don't see a great story for tonight's show. You

(11:15):
got the announcers. Also, whatever the resolution to that is,
if any with Michael Cole, so you know, we'll see,
we'll see what kind of show they come out. And
now Sean Michaels is teas and he'll be on the show.
I just I don't agree with having him even in
a pre tape video cameo being on tonight's show. No
height for the first time since WrestleMania. But I mean, Bruce,

(11:37):
do you look into that as this is the first
seeds being planted for Michael, except you know, the Hall
of Fame twenty eleven is the main even inductee.

Speaker 4 (11:45):
No, I think you've just taken a finally award. I
mean I really could. I really would be surprised that
that happens. But I don't think there's any like you.
I don't think the plan has started. Yeah, you know,
we'll see, but I mean I would be brought to
see it happened, but I don't know. The night's a
direct you know, the direct start.

Speaker 3 (12:06):
Yeah, yeah, I mean I bring that up because last
year Slamming, I mean that's when they started the the
hype for Michael's Undertaker Part two, you know, was on
that slamming when Michael's I forgot about that.

Speaker 4 (12:18):
Yeah, that's true.

Speaker 3 (12:19):
Yeah, I mean we had that flashback up on Peter
B Torch dot com. That's what That's what made me
think of that is that perhaps this is the first
hype for that about the same time as last year.
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (12:30):
Maybe it's just uh, you know, like.

Speaker 3 (12:31):
I said, just showing up, getting in the cameo and
promote tribute to the troops and and there's not much
more to it. So but the time it is right
for something to happen, and uh, I think they need
to start kind of playing those seeds and so that
would be a good thing to start.

Speaker 4 (12:45):
Yeah, I could, you know, I could. I don't know that.
I don't know if they have any you know, I
don't know if they have any great you know, something big.
The way they had that clearly in mind for a year,
you know, I think they had that, you know, they
had that those two had it in mind as soon
as as soon as the under my last Russell naming.
I don't know if there's anything like that right now.
I guess, you know, I guess that this is something

(13:06):
to pay attention to him to watch, because I know
that I was kind of surprised for that, because I
always think the Slams is kind of a throwaway show,
kind of a schully thing, you know, and the getting
a slam and it's not exactly it's not exactly off
your time. But yeah, it turned out to be a
very big deal last year that saw something, you know,
it definitely start us off. Yep.

Speaker 3 (13:25):
All right, let's go ahead and go to the phone lines.
You're going to join us live on the air, listening
to us on blog talk radio. The number to call
is six four six seven to one nine eight two eight.
Let's go to our first caller with this is Ian
out of Tennessee.

Speaker 4 (13:39):
Ian.

Speaker 3 (13:40):
How are you today doing?

Speaker 4 (13:45):
Hey?

Speaker 3 (13:45):
Are you are you with the seeing?

Speaker 4 (13:47):
Yeah?

Speaker 7 (13:48):
Yeah, I'm I'm sorry there you are.

Speaker 3 (13:49):
Yeah, go ahead, what do you have first say?

Speaker 4 (13:52):
Well?

Speaker 2 (13:52):
I was just gonna ask with that the way Barrett
and Nexus and John sand thing kind of at the
forefront and the WWE title and Orton and the NIZ
kind of kind of being secondary and in the background.
Do you think that the only way to get any
momentum on the Miz or the champion whoever that might

(14:14):
be going into WrestleMania is for whoever is the champion
to hold it belt for a little while.

Speaker 3 (14:21):
Yeah, what's your take.

Speaker 4 (14:23):
I mean, it's not just it's not just as you
hold it up for a little while. I mean, you
can do that, but it's really kind of be that
there's momentum, that there's like interesting storylines and if it's
you know, if it's the Miz that he is barely
escaping and people and people care that he is barely
you know that he is barely escaping because you just can't.

(14:49):
You know, you just can't. It's gotta be you know,
it can't just be like there's one like if you
put it on somebody and they win some matches, then
that's going to pray to any momentum. I mean, it's
all in how you do it. So I mean it's
that's just not enough. And I don't know what you know,
the thing about it is when you watch them, I
don't know what it is that they could do right

(15:09):
now to create some interest except for really, you know,
change up how they look and change up how they
do some things that they're not willing to change. I mean,
when you look at the way, you know, there's you
look at the way that the things that they're changing,
and they've changed two things, which is they have brought
into new talent and they've given us the new talent
a push.

Speaker 5 (15:28):
And this is part of it.

Speaker 4 (15:29):
Even though he's been there for a few years now,
and they've changed how they do play by play announcing,
and I think that change has been that changes as
you can, you can show that that's been a bad change.
You can show that that is that philosophy. Change that
the announcer, that the play by play announcer is a
controversial heel who gets people upset, has led to a

(15:53):
softening of their revenue strips. So you know, I don't know,
I don't know what it you know what it is
that they I mean, they need they I think they
do need to change their look, and I think they
do need to stop being stop being so winkling silly.
And I don't what I mean by that is not
not all of a sudden start swearing and and have

(16:16):
the divas showing more skin and and started using more
blood and that kind of thing. But I think they
need to make their top, you know, the their top guys,
you know, something a little more serious and not just
a little more serious, but something they take a little
they take more seriously and h they they you know,

(16:38):
have more stakes than what they have. I mean, you've
got one show with the top. You know, you've got
one show with the top. The top story is a
poor fat guy has been has been kidnapped and it's
supposed to be funny that he that they he teasing
the big dumb champion guy, and you know, on and

(16:59):
on with that and then them the John Cel thing
has its has its real benefits, but it just seems
to me like something that you would watch on a
TV show where you'd be you'd kind of be laughing,
you'd be laughing at the poor heel and and kind
of going along but not taking it so seriously. And
it's a nice entertaining, entertaining thing to watch on television,

(17:19):
but there's not that sense of consequence. And see that's
what they're missing from their main events and not miss
it's like everything's a mid car in ww A, Like
even the top guys seemed to be in midcr feuds
that entertain you but don't really draw out any big emotion.

Speaker 3 (17:37):
Yeah, I think that we saw that going back, you know,
to another three hour show was the uh the Newer's
Choice rang in June, and this is when it was.
It was so evident that exactly what you're talking about, Bruce.
There was an option for I can't remember what it was.
It was a Rod champion versus s backdown champion or
something like that, and or the it was some sort
of you know, title verse title opportunity or some of

(17:59):
the titles in the line, and the viewers voted for
not whatever the option was.

Speaker 4 (18:04):
That was not for the titles.

Speaker 3 (18:05):
You know, I think that there are two separate things
that that happened. It just showed how little value there
is in the championships right now, and and how little
value there is and really being champion and holding the title,
and and that's that's a major factor in w w's
business down turn this year. So yeah, exactly what you
said us.

Speaker 4 (18:25):
I mean, we saw that, you know, the three hour.

Speaker 3 (18:26):
Show back in June, and it's it's still as prevalent
as it is today.

Speaker 4 (18:32):
And that, you know, I think what theans talking about
is part of a difference. And you know, and Waite
Wade kel or the editor has popped about that a lot.
You know, it's written about it and propped about it.
But they need to hold that title for a while.
I think, I think that's part of a solution. I
think it offer this part of building up to that

(18:53):
title is very much worth having, and it's very and
it's very hard to get and then everybody just definitely
want and I think those things together, you know, the
idents you're just traded around, I think is really half harder.
But it has to be in the right.

Speaker 5 (19:07):
Why the right?

Speaker 4 (19:09):
Why?

Speaker 3 (19:10):
Yeah, back to you if you either follow up or
another question.

Speaker 7 (19:15):
Yeah, I guess My other question is she said that
it would it would be a mistake to have Shawn
Michaels on Raw tonight, and I agree with that unless
they're gonna get somewhere with it.

Speaker 4 (19:24):
But what about Tribe to the Troops.

Speaker 7 (19:27):
Whenever there's a possibility of having not only him, but
Triple H on TV as well.

Speaker 3 (19:33):
Yeah, I mean that one, That one is hard because
I mean tribute to the Troops doesn't really count yet
it still kind of does bris. I mean, we can
go and talk about this. I mean it's it's a
big enough story. Just a spoiler alert full distribute to
the Troops show. On Saturday, they taped a a d
X reunion with Sean Michaels in Triple H.

Speaker 5 (19:56):
I believe it.

Speaker 3 (19:56):
It's either gonna air, you know, either on the NBC
special or on the two hour special. So uh, the
USA Network has next Wednesday. I mean, Verus, does that
seem like a wasted opportunity or is it you know,
driven the Troops of that don't standalone show and doesn't
really count.

Speaker 4 (20:11):
Well, I think it talents and that it's their big
you know, it's their big charity show. It's their big
feel good charity show where they when they do something
for people and give something extra for people, but you know,
in service to our country, and that's so that does count.
I don't think. But I don't I think that you
can do something like Triple H and Sean Michaels doing

(20:32):
that because they're doing it for charity, they're doing it
to give something back, and they're doing it for something
extra and they're not coming out to start a program,
and I don't think you start any programs on that show.
You you know, it should be that that the you know,
it's not too violent and and all the heroes go
over and everybody's years and collapse and that's that's how

(20:53):
it goes. So and you know, one thing to keep
in mind is that NBC special is you know, it's
traditionally one of the you know, one of the lowest
rating shows of the year, and any and any sort
of network television and even a lot of you know,
even most of it. These fans don't watch it. And
and you know, I don't know what's gonna happen on USA,

(21:15):
but I suspect another two hours. That's not part of
appointment television. Is not part of the habit of TV.
You know, watching on you know, watching on Friday nights,
watching on Monday nights isn't going to do that well
that they know it, So I I, you know, it
gives us something to advertise, and it gives you know,
two friends a low pressure way to be big shots

(21:37):
and have and have fun together one more time. And
you know that's okay, you know, that's okay. I don't
think it blows any like if somewhere down the line,
Selon Michaels wants to come back for something real, you know,
something dig I don't think that that. I don't think
we will go well, gosh, you know it's kind of
room because I saw him, you know, make an appearance
on on Tribute to the Truths, So I mean, I think,

(22:00):
you know, it does make you think too that he's
kind of what you were saying, that he you know,
he's all his way to the Hall of Time.

Speaker 3 (22:07):
Good shot.

Speaker 1 (22:10):
If you missed it earlier, Just a reminder, we're running
our second VIP sale of the year. We don't do
these often, take advantage of it now. It is a
limited time offer. Take nine dollars off a VIP subscription
a one month, three month, or one year sub It
brings the one month sub down to just three dollars
in ninety nine cents. The coupon code is n o
V twenty twenty five as in November n o V
twenty twenty five, and that takes nine dollars off. When

(22:33):
you check out on our sign up form pw torch
dot com. Slash Go v Ip gives you full details
on membership benefits and links. To our sign up form.

Speaker 4 (22:44):
Yeah, I get that.

Speaker 3 (22:46):
That's feeling more and more. You know, is that this
is gonna be the Just go ahead and do the
follow up right away and Michael through the Hall of
the main Event Hall of Fame inductee. So well, you know,
we'll get a pretty good indicator on tonight's show. So yeah,
he ain't good call. We appreciate the questions. Let's go

(23:06):
ahead and go to our next phone call from the
three four seven eerie code three four seven. Welcome to
the show. Please say trename and where you're from.

Speaker 8 (23:14):
Oh, hold on, this is Christ from New York. My
question is do you see any of the former WV
talent that's in TNA ever return to w D or
do you think that Vincent Man would not want them
back at this point because he doesn't consider t and
a threat.

Speaker 3 (23:29):
Well, I mean, I don't think it has much to
do with ZIM being a threat. I think it's if
you could use them and make money with them, he'd
bring them back, you know, versus is there a you know,
one or two names who jump out as guys that
you see in TNA right now that would come back.
And then Kurt Angle comes to mind but him and
he's said, which you know, taking the grain of salt,
he said that he doesn't want to go back to

(23:50):
w V at least for now. Are there a couple
other names that jump out at you?

Speaker 4 (23:55):
First, I don't gonna say anybody that has they have
a groage with. And I think they'd take Jeff Jarrett
back and company went under just to just to prove
a point. And I think Jarrett would have to suffer.
My guess is that they wouldn't offer him enough money
to make it worth as well, because he's made a
lot of money in the last you know, eight or
nine years doing you know, doing TNA. So but I

(24:19):
bet they would take him back. You know. You know,
you can look at Kevin Nash and go, he's fifty whatever,
he's fifty one years old, and what kind of shape
is the end to actually do anything? But you know it,
besides from that, if there was, you know, I don't
I don't think they look at it. I don't think
they look at like anyone's stuff with the TNA brand.
I think they I think they would. They might punish

(24:40):
one or two, but most of them, I think if
they wanted them, and if there was a slot for them.
You've got to remember that polished professional Wilflerce. There's just
not that many of them right now, and then they're
gonna be you know, w w A is going to
you know, is going to have to aly on people
that they train that has not had experienced the way
you know for the last fifty years. If they've been

(25:02):
able to cherry pick people from other from other promotions
and from around the world, there's just not that type.
There's not that talent pool. Now, this was not that
many of them. So if there's someone that's a veteran,
but they see that they can they can buttress their
show or you know, shore up the mid card or

(25:22):
I don't know, there's anybody in there right now to
me that to do main events for them unless they
were willing to work, you know, on a special schedule
with a Cardangle and that we won't know that you know,
I don't know. I mean, it depends on a lot
of things. Card Angles. So but could I foresee either
one of them working with Devic, Yeah, of course I could.
Whatever Cardangle talks about is like just just whatever's running

(25:44):
through kurd Angle's mind at any particular amount ofment. I
don't know if you should take it too seriously.

Speaker 3 (25:49):
Yeah, yeah, I agree with that, Nick Nick Smoley. I
mean I don't see him wrestling in w W again,
but Hall of Fame, I mean, what you know, again, whatever.

Speaker 4 (26:01):
You mc Foley's going back. I feel a little sure
about it. And I think mcfoley has something that they
could really use, which is someone who can talk in public,
come across as a nice guy.

Speaker 5 (26:14):
Who is involved in you know, he's involved in, say,
in things that benefit people, and you know, cares about
he cares about the causes that he cares about, and
it's willing to go off there and and represent them.

Speaker 4 (26:28):
They need some more of that, and and he is
I mean, he's the perfect guy for that. I mean
he and you know that New York Times bestseller, you know,
the press remembers that, and so I mean I think that,
I mean, I think that he could. You know, they
lost you know one reason why when Man lost the election,
as they have they have a bad reputation among the

(26:50):
general public, among the medium and you know as well earned,
but you know as far as what kind of people
they are, and so to have, you know, to have
somebody on the payroll that can be the face of
a company that's that comes across as a nice intelligence
guy the way Nick Foley does. That's that would be important.

Speaker 6 (27:09):
To allow with them.

Speaker 4 (27:10):
And and I think that Foley would enjoy playing that role.
You know, there's you know, I think fully would enjoy
being author like that. So that's what that's what I see.
As hard as I'm doing many events for being part
of part of their wrestling links, I'd be surprised. I'd
be very surprised with that.

Speaker 3 (27:30):
Yeah, I agree with that. Respect you to any fault
for another question.

Speaker 8 (27:36):
No, I mean as far as like the you know,
I understand the mcmands the reputation with the media, but
to be honest, I mean, I don't think the reputations
on the level of a burning not off. I mean,
they do bought a good charity where if you make
a wish foundation.

Speaker 9 (27:50):
And stuff like that.

Speaker 8 (27:50):
I mean, I think a lot of you respected because
of being associated with co wrestling, and that's why I
think the general public doesn't respect them, and because of
the fact there's they're associated with a little doubt point
of entertainment.

Speaker 4 (28:03):
So I mean, I mean, you know, I mean they're
the they're the biggest company. I mean, we had this
conversation before, but the biggest. They're the biggest company by
far in the industry. They set the tones of the industry.
The things that people look down upon, down upon pro
wrestling happened and happened and a good deal because of

(28:24):
the decisions of visiting man. So I mean, you know,
you can't just you can't just go over there. So
you know, so, you know, pro wrestling has a bad reputation.
But ww you know, that's what that's their problem. It's
not that it's not that they are those of pro wrestling.
They are pro wrestling, and you know, and they do
and they do those things and and and they did
some benefit from doing doing those things, and they you know,

(28:46):
they should and they aren't afraid to let everybody know
that they do this things either. But when you you know,
when you look at you know, I don't know, I mean,
it's you know, Bernie Bernie Madoff, isn't the line Bertie
Maydoff is you know, in jail for one hundred and
fifty years and ruined a lot of people's lives. I'd
argue that being in pro wrestling has ruined a lot
of people's lives too in the last twenty twenty five years,

(29:06):
and that you know, you can point, you can you
know who's the leader of the who's the leader of
the industry, who makes the major decisions, who who could
have changed things and chose not to and waited too
long and it wasn't very interested in doing it in
the first place. So I mean, you know that that's
I'm sorry, but you know this, along with the billion

(29:28):
dollars or less the demand family has made goes some
responsibility and some accountability, whether they like it or not,
and whether some of their fans like it or not.
So you know, that's that's how it is. I mean,
you know, it's not not some not that some nameless
people in pro wrestling did some bad things and or
you know, poor WWE has to suffer suffering their reputation

(29:50):
for yep.

Speaker 3 (29:52):
Yeah, all those points like we're young, Bruce. Yeah, I
mean you just look at look at the body count.
You know, uh, it's there, it's real and it's relevant.
So Chris, appreciate the call, Thanks for calling in today.
Let's go ahead and go to our next phone call.
Let's go to the seven six area code. Seven six oh.
Welcome to the show. Please sit your name and where
you're from.

Speaker 10 (30:13):
Hey it's Larry from Atlanta.

Speaker 3 (30:15):
Hey Larry, can hear from me squad today?

Speaker 10 (30:19):
Hey guys, Well, I had a question. Sorry if my
connection is not great. I had a question about the
the three hour raws here. I'm not particularly excited about
the slammis. I never have been, but maybe, like last year,
maybe it could be the start of something good.

Speaker 3 (30:37):
But what what got?

Speaker 10 (30:39):
What ways do you see WW possibly being able to
use the three hour formats? You know, when when they're
forced to use those to their advantage rather than doing
these gimmick shows. You know, obviously you know with Nitro
that that hurt them having to put out that much content.
But is there a way, at least in a bad

(31:01):
situation that you could see them using the time effectively?

Speaker 3 (31:06):
Verse? What do you think?

Speaker 5 (31:07):
I mean?

Speaker 3 (31:08):
Is there an effective long term way to use that
format or is it sort of a sort of a
necessary evil with the USA network.

Speaker 4 (31:17):
I think it is a necessary evil. I think that
when you don't when you're over, when you're overexposed and
you have you know, you know this this is They've
had several of these shows and there's no real demand
for an extra hour of w w A. They don't
have enough. They don't have enough storylines, they don't have
enough wrestlers, they don't have So I think it just

(31:38):
I think it overexposes the product and the fact that,
you know, it helps them with the network. I'm not
sure how, but it helps them with the with the
network because that extra hour. You know, he said this
before the extra hour of s C I S. Which
is the reruns of those two better than than the
hour day to o'clock of you know, in the ratings,
the hour day to clock of Monday Night Raw. But

(32:02):
you know, I don't know. I mean, I don't know.
I don't know what you what you do if you
have you know, if you have a really hot product
and every once in a while you do a three
hour special, they and you've got a lot of new
fans who've never seen a paper of you've never seen
a three hour show with a lot of main events,
then I think that's where, you know, I think that's
where it works. I don't see. It has to be

(32:26):
the right place, in the right time, and right now.
It's just there's you know, there's two I believe there's
too much, too much w media on television. I believe
there's too much wrestling on television for what the demand
of it is.

Speaker 3 (32:38):
Yeah, this part.

Speaker 11 (32:45):
Longing for some mistalgia, or maybe you want to learn
some wrestling history. Don't miss the Nineties Past cast Every
Friday on the PW Torch Daily Cast Feed. Alex and
Patrick will transport you thirty years into the past by
taking you through the Torch issue from that very weak
follow news from the WWF and w CW, and all

(33:05):
the happenings from across the wrestling industry in real time
as The Torch reported it thirty years ago. That's the
Nineties Pass cast every Friday for the PW Torch Daily
Cast Feed.

Speaker 4 (33:26):
I have a question with you real quickly before you
get yeah, why can't I get in the chat run?

Speaker 3 (33:33):
Is it not open?

Speaker 5 (33:34):
It's not open?

Speaker 3 (33:35):
From me? Well, I've got it.

Speaker 4 (33:38):
Open, but my name's it certainly is open and people
are people are talking. Now.

Speaker 3 (33:43):
I'm wondering.

Speaker 4 (33:44):
I'm wondering if I did not ban you. Oh okay,
I'm wondering would the editor do that? I mean he
was there making places before, so uh huh. I'm like
clicking here and that doesn't click, and I don't see
my name on the on the same I think that
it's part of the conspiracy, part of the nation like conspiracy,
but it's part of it. If you know Randy Quay,

(34:09):
I mean what he talks about was the conspiracy against somebody. Man,
that's just that's not there. So, I mean, yeah, the
man that's try I think the man is coming down
on me. So I want to know why I can't
get on here.

Speaker 3 (34:23):
Did you log in as yourself or did you log
in as a guest?

Speaker 4 (34:26):
I just clicked in. I mean, I don't know that
I need to do. I never had the I mean
I loveed in one time months ago when the started.

Speaker 3 (34:33):
Maybe you need to re log in, maybe set your
your I P or your cookie or something whatever.

Speaker 4 (34:40):
Maybe what about log in?

Speaker 3 (34:44):
Uh, this is a guy listen to us live and
you want to join us in the chat room there
blockbuck radio phagere for us and torches a sign link
at the very top right in.

Speaker 4 (34:54):
Question, I'm a conspiracy victim. Yeah, okay, let's see please
a lot. Okay, long get there? Log in there comment
log in? Does it make me come in?

Speaker 3 (35:03):
Or yeah? So you log in, get into your log in,
you're password?

Speaker 4 (35:08):
Can you should Facebook? I'm not registering Facebook. I don't
have Facebook. I don't want you. I don't want people
to bother them. I don't want friends. I don't like
the friends.

Speaker 3 (35:19):
First, do you have a see this Facebook? No?

Speaker 4 (35:22):
I do not. I do not have a Facebook page
at all.

Speaker 3 (35:25):
Okay for the conspiracy theories die down there you go.

Speaker 4 (35:29):
Actually, last first, that convinced me not to happle one
where you're at it or stuff.

Speaker 3 (35:36):
Uh, that was just fascinating though. If you had a
if you had a if you had a Facebook, you
can you real you can do a real sime Mojo
Mitchell like on Facebook.

Speaker 5 (35:48):
Just do you want you do your.

Speaker 3 (35:50):
Mojo Mitchell real time streaming consciousness right there on Facebook.

Speaker 5 (35:54):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (35:54):
Thanks?

Speaker 3 (35:55):
Thanks?

Speaker 4 (35:55):
That that is That's what I'm looking to do is
more is more of that kind of thing that I appreciate.

Speaker 3 (36:00):
That anyways, Uh, Larry, I think we're talking about three
hour shows my you know, my big picture idea would
be I think I think way to talk about this
too is or the idea of dropping pay per views
you know, have over many four or five, six, seven, eight, whatever, Uh,
and run some specials on USA Network and I would

(36:21):
eliminate three hour raws and I would just have you know,
take take two of your pay per views. You know
what they do thirteen thirteen to fourteen a year, you know,
cut cut that down to six uh and run too
uh specials on USA Network on Sunday nights, you know,
twice a year. And now does have those viewers three
hour shows on USA network. Uh, you know in US

(36:42):
if USA needs another one, well, you know, try to
plan that advance. But I would I would eliminate three
hour rolls and I would have you know, two or
three three hour pay per view type of specials on
USA Network. You know, I guess every quarter, every three,
every every four months. So I just I just I
see the three hour rows as being over and I
just I don't see a format where it's useful, even

(37:04):
you know, Slammy is your choice king in the ring.
I just I just don't see the benefit there outweighing
the costs.

Speaker 6 (37:11):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (37:11):
And like brew said, there isn't. I don't think there's
that talent pool that you know, people are just demanding
and and salivating for more of the SmackDown wrestlers unwraw.
I I just don't see that. So, uh Larry fop
on that or another question.

Speaker 4 (37:26):
Yeah, I'm gonna we're gonna we have a poor connection
with you.

Speaker 3 (37:33):
I'm gonna try you again. Uh so go ahead and
re stay what you were saying there.

Speaker 10 (37:39):
Sure, there we go, Okay, thinking thinking more.

Speaker 11 (37:47):
Of them.

Speaker 3 (37:52):
We're losing you again, Larry. I'll try you again. Let
me go another phone call. I'll come back to you
and see if maybe the connection will be reset. We'll
get your your question. Let's go to the nine to one. Oh,
but this is Hannibal. How are you doing to the animal?

Speaker 6 (38:05):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (38:05):
I'm doing okay. How you doing, Bruce?

Speaker 6 (38:08):
Let's go on?

Speaker 3 (38:09):
How are you doing? Am I doing that? First?

Speaker 4 (38:12):
An?

Speaker 12 (38:13):
Go ahead?

Speaker 3 (38:13):
Go ahead?

Speaker 4 (38:13):
Animal? What do you have? Don't?

Speaker 3 (38:16):
Okay?

Speaker 5 (38:16):
Yes?

Speaker 6 (38:16):
The quick that I had to ask was this right here? Okay?

Speaker 4 (38:19):
Back here?

Speaker 6 (38:19):
What two thousand and three and.

Speaker 7 (38:20):
I'm back lash with Goldberg versus the Rock.

Speaker 6 (38:23):
I'm trying to get it do I know most of
the time Goldberg don't normally go for it. But how
would the world did vincing man get Goldberg to see
all those majority of the moves in the back to
the rock like that? How the world did they get that.

Speaker 3 (38:35):
Done first Goldberg and WV it tak a little bit
about that, that career move and how w W booked him.

Speaker 4 (38:44):
Well, I mean Goldberg, you know, Goldberg was a star
and gold war was a big deal in w c W,
and they needed you know, WW needed star so and
they wanted to take advantage of what they could do.
And I think it was one of those deals where
they wanted him and they didn't want him. At the
same time they wanted him, they wanted some fresh faces,

(39:05):
they wanted to have some fresh main events. They figured
they could put him in the mix, but they didn't
want to use him. And you know, some of those
conversations that didn't have a way Keller's about about the subject.
But they didn't want to use Goldberg in the way
that was successful in w CW and go and you know,
Goldberg was a very simple eye and it was you know,

(39:26):
he goes out there, he jacks the guy, he spears
the guy, he jacks him up, he does and he
wins and he shows you know, and he shows fire
doing it and that and that was how it worked.
And so the first night they wanted to show that
they could either they wanted to sabotage him, or they
wanted to bring more dimensions to its character so that

(39:47):
he could last longer in professional wrestling business there as
a main inventor or something or another. So they put
a wing on his head, they had they had gold
Dust come out and do a skit with him and
put a winging on his head. And it really they
really just weren't comfortable pushing them the way that you
needed to push him to make it work, and so
they put him in main events that he wasn't happy

(40:07):
and they and they weren't happy with him, and it
didn't and it just didn't get over the way it should. Sometimes,
you know, you don't want the Ramones playing, you know,
playing a twenty minute art rock song. You want the
Remones playing a two minute Ramone song for those of
you that remember the Ruins. And you know, some things

(40:28):
just are basic and and Bill Goldberg was was basic.
So and you know there's a sense too that Bill
Goldberg was the creation of w CW success in WCW,
and so a lot of times WWE is interested in
showing that the creations of other of other promotions aren't
as good as their own creations, or aren't you know,

(40:50):
weren't really as good as you remember, and so there's that,
you know, they don't have that, they don't have that
attitude that now Bill Goldberg once he signs with them,
is there is theirs and then they should get the
most out of them, you know, they should get the
most out of them. They're trying to make it. The
nicest way to say, they're trying to make a bigger
point about brand, and that is that they're brand is superior.

(41:11):
And so if they've brand superior, this guy couldn't just
come in and you know, come in and kick ass immediately.
And that's sort of what happened with Lliburg. But it
was just just a monumental misuse of talent at that point. Yeah.

Speaker 11 (41:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (41:28):
Anytime you're watching ww E Raw or SmackDown or aw
Dynamite in particular, send us an email if you've got
thoughts on the show or a topic you want us
to address or a question for us. Wade Kellor Podcast
at pwtorch dot com, Wadekeller Podcast at pewtorch dot com.
If there's anything else going on in pro wrestling that
you want us to address on our main podcast during

(41:49):
our mailbank segments. That same email applies Wade Keller podcast
at PW torch dot com. We invite that interaction. Let
us know what you think of what we're saying, and
let us know what you want us to talk about
and ask us specific questions. Wade Kellor podcast at PW
torch dot com.

Speaker 3 (42:07):
Hannibal follow up on that are other question?

Speaker 6 (42:10):
Okay, yes, do you think okay that the thing.

Speaker 3 (42:14):
Is going to go to w for the Hall of Fame,
you know next year, if Goldberg will be in the
Hall of Fame.

Speaker 4 (42:21):
No, I haven't heard anything new. I haven't heard anything
new him about it. If you would think since see
you know, he headlined that big sixty thousand, you know,
don't show against Paul Cogan that in the Georgia Dune,
that you would think that that Atlanta would be either
he's going to go in the Hall of Fame in
Atlanta or he's not. He's expressed interest in appearing in

(42:42):
a wrestling match on the big stage, so there's his
children can see him see him wrestle. But again, you know,
do you have what do you do with Bill Goldberg?
Do you have him come in? You know, if you're
gonna have him come in for one match. It just
doesn't make sense to build him up something and then
beat him. But on the other hand, do they want
to have him come in and eat somebody and do
the Bill Goldberg match, you know, do that pattern match

(43:04):
and then disappear. So, you know, I don't know. I think,
you know, if you remember years a few years ago,
Altimate Ware came back for one match in Italy just
so this and and did it, you know, and I
guess they drew several thousand people said he you know,
his son or whichever, his son or his daughter. Maybe
it was his daughter saw him, you know, saw him

(43:24):
to the Ultimate Warrior, and you know he was too
young to see him when he was in his from
So there's no place, you know, this is a smaller
even now, there's no place to do something like that
for Goldberg. So I just think it depends on what
w had in mind and what Bill Goldberg would want,
and and you know, would they allow him to do something,

(43:45):
you know that so he could be Bill Goldbler for
one last night. And my guess is it just doesn't
come together. But we'll see they you know, they they
want they're gonna want some special things and right now,
they have a crew that sees the growing that you know,
part of the crew is is growing up and the
other part of the group crew is cooling down. So

(44:06):
I don't have anything special in this transition period.

Speaker 3 (44:09):
What about Sting?

Speaker 6 (44:11):
Uh?

Speaker 3 (44:11):
You know, his status of TNA seems murky. Uh. But
I mean do you see w either this year or
perhaps you know, in a couple of years down the line.
How do you think that they would present him with
with no, I mean, Goldberg's going in the same boat.
But I mean Sting is not really a threat, you know,
I mean Goldberg was a little bit of a threat Sting.
I mean, just you bring in Sting as the attraction.

(44:33):
I mean, what how do you think w would handle him?
And do you see him being part of this next
Hall of Fame class?

Speaker 4 (44:39):
Yeah, Waite and I had a long conversation about this
this week and on the on the Brush Social audio
show him. But anyway, you know, and my system it
is he's he's much older than than Goldberg, And you know,
there's a lot that you can do in this video.
There's a lot like that, like Wade was saying, But

(45:01):
I don't know, I just I just don't know. Who
you put him in there with. I don't see see
how he walks in there and impresses like a good
generation wfans. You've got to remember and this is something
with Goldberg too, but you know that both of them
well actually sting because Goldberg has w E ron. The

(45:21):
sting has not been seen by a big company in
like ten years, has you know whatever, it's been ten
years in w CW one out of business. So I mean,
you know there's a lot you know, people people that
jump over to TNA from w always shocked when they
get when they get you know, no one tells them
that they're from TNA. Rick Flair, I guess was on

(45:44):
you know, was a sideline of Believes Tennessee Titans this
weekend and was identified on the national broadcast as on
the broadcast as former w W E grade. I mean,
you know that it goes on all the time. I mean,
they get asked, when are you going back to wrestling?
Because there's that one million people that watched TNA, and
then there's you know, there's several other million people who

(46:07):
watch WWE, and then there's several more million people than
that they quit watching wrestling all together. Was WCW one
out of the business. So, I mean it's been ten years,
and so there's a lot that means that there's a
lot of people who just haven't seen Sting and aren't
gonna be all you know, and I don't know they're
gonna be all impressed with what's left Sting in his fifties.

(46:28):
I mean, the one thing he could do he can
talk better, but to get him over, are you gonna
give him all that time and invest all that time
in him when he's at that point. I you know,
I don't think in twenty ten it's a WrestleMania dream match.
Might have been it was a WrestleMania dream match in
nineteen ninety eight. It might have been a WrestleMania dream
match in two thousand and four, but in two thousand
and ten, I mean, excuse me, twenty eleven. Yeah, you know,

(46:53):
I don't buy it.

Speaker 9 (46:55):
You know.

Speaker 3 (46:55):
It's so funny though, o versus you know, when was
the last NATRO? Was that March or April of two
dozen one? Uh?

Speaker 4 (47:05):
Yeah, I don't know, Mary March. I guess I don't know.
I'm not going that.

Speaker 3 (47:10):
It might literally be the tenure anniversary of Sting's last
major national TV match.

Speaker 4 (47:17):
Because I should be, But I don't think there's a lot.
I mean, that's kind of a coincidence of kind of
an interesting coincidence or interested historical match.

Speaker 3 (47:23):
Yeah, the market out interesting, Yeah exactly, it's maybe for
I mean, but I mean, I don't know that you
want to give that away on TV. But it's not WrestleMania,
you know, I'm it's not it's not an elimination chamber.
But uh, I don't know.

Speaker 4 (47:39):
I mean, I know Michael said that the one who
wanted to wreffle was Sting and you never got a
chance to wressel Sting. That just you know, WW for
a lifetime. That really surprised me a little bit. Uh
you know, I don't know. I mean I think the
years ago there might have been something to a locks
thing match.

Speaker 3 (47:56):
But uh now, yeah, Animal, good call. We appreciate how
you calling in. Let's go let's go back to Larry. Larry,
let's try your connection again for your follow up?

Speaker 10 (48:10):
Oh thanks, is that any better?

Speaker 4 (48:12):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (48:13):
We can hear you good now?

Speaker 10 (48:15):
Oh well thanks, Well I.

Speaker 3 (48:18):
Thought about that right after I said it. I misspoke
and I was like, well, I'll let Larry talk but yeah,
thanks for the correction.

Speaker 4 (48:27):
Let's gold tasteer.

Speaker 3 (48:28):
Come on now, all right, Larry, go ahead.

Speaker 10 (48:33):
Yeah sure, Well, I guess I was going to say,
I know they do not have the depth, but could
they do more angle based three hour specials rather than
gimmick Rather than gimmick based like the slam User King
of the Ring like that, maybe say the Barrett Sina
and coming to a head not in a match, but

(48:56):
in a storyline, a piece of storyline.

Speaker 3 (49:02):
Bruce, to me, that's dangerous grounds, you know, I mean,
so much of Vernie's product is angle and storyline based now,
but I mean, is it something where you could build
a three hour show around the culmination of an angle
on free TV rather than on pay per view?

Speaker 4 (49:20):
Well, they haven't culminated some angles. I mean I guess
you could do that. It would take to me, that
would take planning on. That would take like we have
a six month angle six months from now, we know
that on May the fourth, we're gonna have a three
hour raw and we're gonna work through this angle and
build it up to you know, this is gonna be
the one where we're you reveal you know the answer
to the mystery or you know, this is the one

(49:42):
where John Cena, you know where John Cena either cheats, cheats,
is a referee and loses his integrity and you know,
gets out of nexas or he holds his own integrity
and he gets fired. And you could do it, You
could do it that way. I'd say, if you did that,
it should be because of what's revealed at this huge

(50:03):
television show that you've built up for for.

Speaker 13 (50:05):
How many months?

Speaker 4 (50:06):
There's a match that you that you really want to see.
There's something, there's something revealed that makes you really want
to see those two partners who you thought were friends
for life. You know, one of them brutally betrayed the
other one on the big show. Well that was the
big reveal on the on the on the on the
television show that you built up and that you would

(50:27):
reveal this on our special three hour show. And then
because of that, you want to pay to see the
two fight on the pay for view, you know that,
And that takes that takes some planning, you know, planning
something strong and then the discipline to stick with it
no matter what and hoping nobody gets hurt. Nothing too
much changes on the way there.

Speaker 1 (50:51):
We are running our second v I P sale of
the year. You want to take advantage of this. If
you've thought of going v I P or let your
sub lapse, had to step away for a while, it's
a good time to come back. Pwtorch dot com slash
Go vip tells you about VIP membership. There is a
link to our order form and you can choose a
one month or three month subscription and you can take

(51:11):
nine dollars off any of those three options. The coupon
code is Nov twenty twenty five as in November Nov
twenty twenty five to take nine dollars off. That brings
a one month sub down to three dollars and ninety
nine cents. That is a full VIP membership That means
you unlock nearly four decades of archives, one hundreds of
retro radio shows from the nineties, two decades and more

(51:32):
of podcasts on demand, along with an ad free website,
add free versions of our free podcasts, and a bunch
of VIP exclusive features, including podcasts that are compatible with
the Apple Podcast native app and many other Android and
iobs apps, and also the new Wadekeller news bulletins that
come in three formats a PDF that's great on a
tablet or a laptop screen, an all text version which

(51:53):
is great to read on your phone, and a podcast version.
These run about sixteen minutes in terms of podcast length,
and it is a new future. I'm running two three
four times a week. I'm gonna try to increase that
as my schedule adjust to this new feature. So check
it out. PW torch dot com, slash go vi ip
coupon code n ov five to take nine dollars off

(52:13):
a one month, three month, or one year sub.

Speaker 3 (52:18):
Yeah, and that's what's missing, is that planning aspect. And
I mean w W hasn't shown any any sense of
change in that area. You know, they threw it together
a key in the ring tournament, they're throwing together as slammings.
I mean, there was no juice behind this at all,
the slamming show and you know, maybe a little bit today,
but it'll ask if there was no build up to it.

(52:38):
It's just it's coming up on the calendar. But you know,
if you want to do something like the raw GM reveal,
I mean that's yeah, you know, later to your point
on that, if they wanted to build a show around
you know, we're going to conclude the raw GM, We're
gonna reveal who it is. It's gonna lead to something,
it's gonna be it. There's gonna be a payoff. I
don't I mean, I don't know if you build an
entire theme name around it, or if you just say

(53:00):
this is the goal. We have a three hour raw
in in March or April or May, and we're going
to build toward that as a rodg GM reveal. So
that might be something that you know fits when you're
staying Larry. Did they have the discipline and do that?
I don't think so so. But I mean versus is
that something you know, you something like either Anxious Higher

(53:22):
Power Reveal or the roge GM reveal. Is that something
you could you know, build toward the entire show around
you know, with you know what's sort of targeted at
three or.

Speaker 4 (53:30):
Four more entire show round of it. All you do
is you have a three hour show when you promise
that you that you and you know you need to
have somebody to see. That's the thing about the law GM.
I think that's a good idea. I think that's the
one that they kind of have. But the problem with
that one is I don't think they have anybody or
that they've had anybody in mind for a long time.
So you have to come up if you've got something good.

(53:51):
What you don't want is, oh, look it's you know,
it's Vicky Grara. You know, I'll look at you know,
I'll look AT's you know, it's Brett Harder. It's just
somebody that they've kind of done before. And you know,
that doesn't really fit, and that's that it wouldn't fit
their character to do that, you know, to like be
on the you know, to send emails and be mysterious

(54:12):
like that. It wouldn't fit. They wouldn't sit who they are.
So unless you've got somebody, you know, if you've got
a you got one where you go, wow, I didn't
see that coming, but it makes sense. Look, you know,
you know a month ago they said this, and and
a few weeks ago they said that kind of what
Eric Mitcheff tried to do on that reaction show to
show that, you know, the show that the reveal for

(54:32):
Day was actually this very well thought out, you know,
big angle and you know, in other words, you know,
you lay some clues along the way and it's good
enough for people you know, it's good enough where people
guess at it, but they don't get it, and it
you know, the other thing is it doesn't get out.
And that's those things asking their creative to do it,

(54:52):
ask it not to get out, asking it not to
get figured out. Those are some tough things about that.
Last time I think is much less important than they
than they do. I think that sometimes it's okay, you know,
it's okay that someone figures out that they're doing the
right tonight.

Speaker 3 (55:10):
Yeah, yeah, I think you're right on evers Larry, good call.
Appreciate you joining the show today. Down to the last
about twelve or thirteen minutes of the live cast before
the top of the hour with the start of the
three hour row doing to join us in the last
ten minutes. The number to call is six four six
seven two one nine eight two eight. Let's go to
our next phone call from the eight to one to seven.

(55:32):
Thanks for holding.

Speaker 4 (55:33):
Please state your.

Speaker 3 (55:33):
Name and where you're from. This is Jimmy, Jimmy from
Fort Worth, Texas. How you guys doing tonight? Good Jimmy,
what's going on today?

Speaker 13 (55:41):
Well, just a couple of quick things and I'll just
kind of throw all of it out and then Dalton
put me back on hold and I'll listen.

Speaker 4 (55:50):
But John, how do you fix how do you fix
the three holbum Raw?

Speaker 13 (55:55):
You take raw back to the original formula, which was
add in some squash matches, add in some matches to
where I mean my opinion is is too many times
do we see matches in the mid card that could
have been decent main event matches. I mean the Jackslagger

(56:15):
Kokie Kingston for example. Take those matches and make them special,
don't make them ordinary. So when we've seen Dlphzigler versus
Kochi for the forty millions time between free TV and
pay per view, it's special.

Speaker 4 (56:29):
And turn the three.

Speaker 13 (56:30):
Power Walls more into kind of the clash of a
champion like model.

Speaker 4 (56:35):
And you know, and.

Speaker 13 (56:39):
As far as Triple H and Sean Michael beIN on
the tributes and troops and all that other kind of stuff,
I don't necessarily have a.

Speaker 12 (56:45):
Problem with it.

Speaker 13 (56:46):
And it's not I mean, because if you're just using
it as a promo piece and so forth, it's not.

Speaker 4 (56:53):
That big of a deal.

Speaker 13 (56:54):
And bus on top of that, if we don't expect
to see Triple H back anytime, so that's really you know,
it keeps his name out then, but then you know
he disappears in obscurity again and that's fine. And on
top of that, I'm not doing concerned about nim holding
onto the title because now champion or world heavy winning

(57:16):
champion that goes into the elimination chamber since to come
out with the thing. So I mean, this is kind
of to me a hold over our transition champion because
they're gonna change it the dust that whoever they want
come February anyway.

Speaker 3 (57:30):
So we'll go from there. Yeah, I mean, Jimmy, we'll
take those two points that Bristol's heart with the squash match.

Speaker 4 (57:38):
Is that a way to extend those.

Speaker 3 (57:40):
Three hour raws or just raw in general or TV
rustling in general. Is that something that you'd like to
see mixed back into where when you get those mid
guard matches it actually mean something on TV?

Speaker 4 (57:52):
Well, I mean, I'd like to see that justin the
fact that I think that I think that you can
focus in on an act and go, this is what
the guy's about. This is a finishing hole. These are
the holes that he uses. The guy that he's wrestling
might beat him. It's possible but this is really he's
this isn't a match for him, and we're and and

(58:12):
we're watching him, and you can stretch out some things,
and you can also use that time to anticipate whatever
it is he's involved in, you know, explain whatever, whatever,
you know, whatever feud or matches in. Particularly for new wrestlers,
I think sometimes they they expect everybody to can't get
up to speed while they're in whatever few the other
thing is they have. I mean, I've thought about it
with with the Impact Thursday Night, but I think about

(58:34):
it all the time. When you have everybody involved in something,
it's harder to make. You have to work that much
harder to get the top acts and whatever the top
acts are involved in over because everything seems you know,
everything seems important, and when everything see is important, really
nothing is important. I'm scared to do this. I don't

(58:54):
think they're going to do this, but I mean, and
I also just think that you could have, you know,
with John Cenay this back in just John cena having
a match on televisions seem like a big deal. It
shouldn't be that. To make it seem like a big deal,
he has to ruffle Randy or which is they backed
themselves into that corner where he has to wrestle, and
you know, people are people are satisfied. I don't know,

(59:16):
they're satisfied with them and made of matters. But you know,
instead of just like, we don't see this guy Rustle
that often, so to not, we're getting a real treat.
We're going to see our top star Ruffle. We're gonna
see you know, we gonna see Orton Rustle. We're gonna
see the Edge Russell, whoever the top bay Face is,
or even their top eels. And that's a matter of pacing,
and that's a matter of you know, they blow out

(59:36):
everything trying to get a rating when the truth is
the rating stays about the same no matter what they gave.

Speaker 3 (59:43):
Yeah, but I mean, Bruce, I think that in the
Bruce Metchau audio that you did on Friday, when you
talk about the Pope in how they pretty much gave
him a you know, on an elaborate angle on that.

Speaker 4 (59:55):
Show, and.

Speaker 3 (59:57):
You know, it made it seem that it made it
seem like the rest of the show was unimportant because
of how much time and emphasis they gave to the
Pope and his fall up angle. Uh, and so, like
you said, it kind of made them have to work
that much harder to get over the main event angles.
And I think that's been part of TNA's issue, is

(01:00:19):
they try to make everything seem main events that everything
just ends up washing itself out and everything seems ment card,
and I guess it don't make they don't try to
make it make they don't try to make it the
main event.

Speaker 4 (01:00:32):
They make it.

Speaker 3 (01:00:32):
They make everything try to seem important, and I think
it washes out the majority of the card and the
majority of the talent who are trying to get over,
and they don't stand out. And that's been an issue
for TNA. First, do we lose you? I think we
lost you for a second, but we'll get brised back
on the line. Jimmy, good call. Appreciate hearing from you.

Speaker 14 (01:00:59):
I'm Kelly Well, host of the seven Star podcast, the
new Ongoing Torch show covering the world of New Japan
Pro Wrestling. We'll drop new episodes as major shows and
noteworthy events dictate and.

Speaker 3 (01:01:11):
I'm Chris Lansdell.

Speaker 15 (01:01:13):
Join us as we covered the ever changing landscape of
New Japan as they navigate an era with no lack
of talent, but I really need.

Speaker 3 (01:01:19):
To create some new styles.

Speaker 4 (01:01:21):
You can stream the new seven Stop podcasts now from
Pro Wrestling.

Speaker 3 (01:01:24):
Talk and let's go ahead and go on to our
next phone call from the two eight one. So this
is uh first we have you back on. Okay, Tarry
about that, that's all right, Yeah, I was just I

(01:01:46):
was just stressing your point. You made that point about
the Pope and the first Mitchell audio show, about the
elaborate sort of segment they set up on impact. Then
it's you know, it seemed like something that you would
do for a main events or.

Speaker 4 (01:01:58):
Not for a mid carter. Yeah, And I just said
to the idea that everybody, all the time, the featured
has to have a story, has to be featured in
some way, and that every you know, that everything you know,
I think that when there's midcart stuff that's there for comedy,
and there's mid part stuff there for a purpose, but
just having people, do you know, having people involved with

(01:02:20):
each other, and there's no reason why some of those
mid card matches couldn't be you know, couldn't be one
guy against the guy. I'm not talking about the kind
of jobs that we've in the eighties that couldn't put
up a fine, you know, just there were just complete
squash matches with somebody that you know, and they do
sort of do this. I think Chris Masters is like
this on s backdown where you know who he is.

(01:02:40):
They talk about what he can do, but you have
a pretty good idea unless they's unless something changes, he's
going to lose. And they really they spend a little
bit of time talking about him, but most of the
time talking about his opponent, whether it's Toby Teinaston or
you know, or whoever, or Duff Think or whoever, whoever
it is that they have in Wisse, And I think
they probably do that a little more, and that people

(01:03:01):
are gonna need to is that they you know, as
the time is that there's just not that many acts
that it's harder to have that so they're gonna have
to get the most out of the ones that are
the macable ones, and that's a good way to do it,
to kind of stretch some things out.

Speaker 3 (01:03:17):
Yeah, I believe the other part of Jimmy's question was
about Triple H and you're talking about the title situation
going to going to WrestleMania, and I think one of
the main reasons that I would to say that there's
I mean, it's been a five or six year process
of the belts being watered down, probably longer than that. Uh,

(01:03:37):
but you know, specifically in this era, you'ld the elimination
chamber and what was it this past year where Sina
one and then Batista was given about by McMahon, and
I just you know, I think they need to eliminate,
you know, eliminate elimination chamber or at least eliminate the
idea of the title being on the line elimination chamber match.

(01:03:58):
To think that they really need to have a consistent
champion at some point. On the one the two brands
that I don't think.

Speaker 4 (01:04:08):
You know, part of that is not doing office changes,
not having a guy gets stripped of the title. That's
part of it, you know, the way the way that
seemed to got the title stripped from him. The other
one is the the experiment to brand pay per views
with gimmicks has been a failure. It's been a terrible failure.
So stop that, and you know, and then and then

(01:04:32):
I would I would say another thing that's been a
failure for several years is the multime man title match
and the multi man main event, you know, with with
two and three on three and four on four and
six Tag Challenge and all that crap. It doesn't it
doesn't lend itself to an excitement of one guy about
to beat the other guy for the title, and the idea,

(01:04:52):
you know, and eliminate championship championships changing hands when one
guy attends somebody who's not in the champion. All those
things add together, all those things chip away bit by
bit at the marketability of your championship. And that if
they want to make some changes, that's some changes they
can make today. You know, I don't think the paper

(01:05:14):
companies don't care whether they're branded by gimmicks or what
the name of them are. Is that and and I
made the suggestion before brand brand the pay per view
by the main event. That's what that's what you see does.
That's what boxing does. If it's you know, if it's
way There versus versus John Cena, then it should be
Sena versus you know, Sena versus bear On and Mark

(01:05:37):
get to decide three months ahead of time, they do
it and and then build towards that. If someone gets injured,
someone gets arrested, one of those all the things that
happens pro wrestlers then change then, but that's what you do.
But that's what you do. You know, put some emphasis
on star versus star, not star wars and star wars
and star wars the star and divide and divide the

(01:05:58):
focus and divide the height. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:06:00):
I mean, if you look at the two pay per
views that really capture that faddle four way, that pay
per view bombs. I mean, I'm surprised it's still on
the schedule for next year. And also the like I said,
the pay per view with that six pack challenge was on.
Uh was that was that money in the bank of
the six pack challenge? But whatever paper give the six
pack challenge, that one didn't do well either.

Speaker 4 (01:06:22):
No, no, well, waters down, the water's down on the drama,
all this water down the drama.

Speaker 3 (01:06:29):
Yep. Let's go to our final phone call from the
two eight one. So I believe this is Janny Houston. Jay,
how are you today?

Speaker 12 (01:06:36):
Are doing just mine? How are you guys doing? Okay?
This is a question regarding uh the Jeff Jarrett moa
Joe angle.

Speaker 4 (01:06:48):
Jeff. I was kind of afraid to laugh at those
Jeff Jeff gids.

Speaker 12 (01:06:52):
They were funny, But just as I thought, he turned
the whole mm A thing into a choke by making
Joe tap prety choking. Now then he made him tap
out and and now Kernangle gets to be Samoa Joe
savior and.

Speaker 3 (01:07:07):
That is just sixty second crap.

Speaker 4 (01:07:10):
Ever, in my opinion, that's one of what you guys
thought about that.

Speaker 12 (01:07:14):
And yeah, what another baby face's gonna get the comeback?
Is there anybody young that's gonna get over from this?

Speaker 3 (01:07:22):
Yeah, Brits, go ahead and talk about that, that Jared
Joe Engle situation.

Speaker 4 (01:07:27):
Well no, I mean, you know, Samoa Joe is a
stocking lorse to to get Kardangle ready to come back
in to be the shooter to face Jeff Jared. I
mean it's there's some tenth for Mma. There there's some
pretent for Smoa Joe, But I mean it's not something
to get excited about it. Who gets over in TNA?
I mean, you gut who gets over in TNA? So

(01:07:50):
it's it's Kurdangle is going to be more over being
in this is gonna be damaged by this. I mean,
Jeff Jared is just Jair. You know, if your second,
he'd want it for a while. Yep.

Speaker 3 (01:08:02):
One thing everyone for listening to live cast today and
for your support. Be sure tune in again on Tuesday
for Wade and Jason breaking down tonight's row covers on
p to B torch dot com. Starting now.

Speaker 1 (01:08:18):
If you missed it earlier, Just a reminder, we're running
our second VIP sale of the year. We don't do
these often, take advantage of it now. It is a
limited time offer. Take nine dollars off a VIP subscription
a one month, three month, or one year sub It
brings the one month sub down to just three dollars
in ninety nine cents. The coupon code is n o
V twenty twenty five as in November n V twenty

(01:08:38):
twenty five, and that takes nine dollars off When you
check out on our signup form PW torch dot com.
Slash go VIP gives you full details on membership benefits
and links to our sign up form. Invite you to
email the show with feedback or questions or comments. That
email address is Wade Keller Podcast at pwtorch dot com.
That's Wadekeller Podcast at pw tor dot com. Also welcome

(01:09:01):
your feedback on Twitter. Even follow us on Twitter at
PW torch and follow me at the Wadekeller. That's at
PW Torch and at the Wadkeller.

Speaker 15 (01:09:12):
Searching for more great pro wrestling talk, then join me
Jason Powell host them the three weekly Pro Wrestling Boom Podcast.
Each week you'll hear the latest news and analysis from
me and my team at Pro wrestling dot net along
with other pro wrestling media members. Plus, the Pro Wrestling
Boom Podcast features long form interviews with notable names in
the pro wrestling industry. Subscribe and Itunestitcher, downcast, and all

(01:09:34):
your favorite secondary apps, or visit us directly at PW
boom dot com. Once again, that's PW boom dot com.

Speaker 1 (01:09:43):
Thanks for listening to our podcast. Did you know we
also have a website pw torch dot com. Daily news updates, editorials,
and my live TV coverage covering Raw, Dynamite and SmackDown
and my live pay per view coverage for WWE and AEW.
Create a tab or bookmark, make it a daily stop.
Visit us throughout the day every day to keep up
on breaking news and more. That's PW torch dot com.

Speaker 16 (01:10:07):
Need an extra dose of positivity in your wrestling podcasts.
Will come join me Alan ferel Over in the Progress
Paradise at Pterboo Torch VIP as we mask on the
bright side of wrestling and focus on some of the
great matches and shows from around the world, be it
the US, Japan, Europe or Mexico. There's always a place

(01:10:27):
for wrestlings past in the Paradise too, and we've done
fun historical shows such as the We Love Liger series
celebrating the glorious career of Jusian Thunderliger and our eye
was there when shows where our guests will join me
to talk about a classic bout that they were in
attendance for. We love variety and you can expect lots
of it at the Progress Paradise. Detailed PW Torch VIP

(01:10:50):
subscription information and a list of all the VIP benefits
is available at pterwrew torch vip info dot com. And yes,
all VIP podcasts are compatible with popular podcast apps on
iPhone and Android devices, or you can stream them directly
from our ad free VIP mobile site. See You in
the Paradise.

Speaker 1 (01:11:10):
One way that you can help us sustain our schedule
of putting out podcasts throughout the week is by giving
us a five star rating on Apple Podcasts. Just go
to Apple Podcasts and look for our Weight Keller Prossing
podcast and Weight Keller Prossing Post show and give us
a five star rating. We hope you think we've earned
that score with our fast turnaround times and our quantity
and quality of wrestling analysis throughout the week. So take

(01:11:32):
a moment out for us and do us favor and
give us a five star rating and Apple Podcasts. That
helps us on search returns and helps us grow. And
if you want, you can add a few comments about
what you like about the programs in the comments section.
Thank you so much.

Speaker 17 (01:11:48):
In twenty twelve, NXT transitioned into the developmental system and
ultimately the brand you see today. On the Torch Vip
podcast NXT eight years Back, we'll be taking a weekly
look at this page in NXT's early history.

Speaker 9 (01:12:03):
Join Kelly Wells and me Tom Stout from PWT Talks
NXT every Saturday as we go eight years back to
the day to track NXT's rising talents and why they
did or didn't work out, exclusively for PW Torch Vip members.

Speaker 1 (01:12:17):
PW Torch VIP membership doesn't just give you add free
access to these shows and a ton of other VIP
exclusive podcasts throughout the week, but you also gain access
to our unmatched vast library of wrestling history, our contemporaneous
week to week coverage through our progressing Torch Weekly newsletters
dating back to the late nineteen eighties, along with streaming
and download access to hundreds of retro radio shows from
the nineteen nineties, including some of my interviews with wrestling's

(01:12:40):
top newsmakers in the nineties, and also our podcast library
dating back to the year two thousand and three. There's
no larger, longer spanning pro wrestling podcast library than that
that comes with a PW Torch VIP membership. Now approaching
twenty years of podcasting, Go vip and dive into our
post pay per view roundtables are covered to some of
your favorite eras of wrestling, top name long form interviews,

(01:13:03):
and special format podcasts that we've done throughout the years.
PW Torch dot com slash go vip. We have a
streamline sign up for me and you can pay with
PayPal or directly with your credit card or debit card.
In one or two minutes from right now, you can
be a VIP member and diving into our library. Pw
torch dot com, slash go VIP

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Dateline NBC

Stuff You Should Know

The Bobby Bones Show

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}15 YRS AGO LIVECASTS: Cena-Barrett issue, is Sting a legit Top 50 star, Michaels-HOF, Goldberg or Sting in WWE speculation, Pillman, more

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Dateline NBC

Stuff You Should Know

The Bobby Bones Show

All Episodes

15 YRS AGO LIVECASTS: Cena-Barrett issue, is Sting a legit Top 50 star, Michaels-HOF, Goldberg or Sting in WWE speculation, Pillman, more

Dateline NBC