15 YRS AGO LIVECASTS: CM Punk on commentary, Samoa Joe's contract status and is he WWE-bound, Miz vs. Lawler, Rock "Faster" movie review

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 2 (01:36):
Now.

Speaker 3 (01:37):
PW Torch and Spreaker.

Speaker 1 (01:39):
Bring you the Wade Killer Pro Wrestling podcast fifteen years ago.
This week on the Flag Chip, Jason Powell from Pro
Wrestling dot Net Join me. We talked about the rawmin
event featuring Miss against Jerry Lawler, plus a King of
the Ring tournament see on punk on Commentary, t andam PACs,
Thanksgiving ratings, Jeff Jared Mma, spoof in his latest push,

(02:02):
and more during the live cast, and then in the
previously VIP exclusive after show, we talked about Rock's Faster
movie which Jason saw, and go more in depth on
raw analysis and other subjects. Before that though We're starting
with James Caldwell with Bruce Mitchell for a one hour
show the previous day with a discussion on TNA's lack
of responsibility and accountability, the Jeff Hardy situation. Regarding the

(02:24):
Jeff Harty situation, also Simojo's contract status and whether he'll
turn up in WWE. Thoughts on Raw that night, Sean
Michaels perhaps receiving the main event Hall of Fame induction status.
The following year, Jeff Jared against Triple H in a
big Foot contest, tribute to Danny Don Meredith with Bruce
singing and more. That was the live stream on December

(02:44):
six twenty ten with James and Bruce, and then the
Flagship with Jason, Paul and Me on December seventh, twenty ten.
And it is today's Way Keller Prog Wrestling Podcast Fifteen
years ago Flashback four Monday December eighth, twenty twenty five.

Speaker 3 (03:03):
You're listening to the PW Torch live cast. This is
PW Torch Assistant editor James Caldwell hosting today on Monday
December the sixth, twenty ten. Joined today by Towards Columbus
Bruce Mitchell Bruce Arty today doing fun.

Speaker 2 (03:19):
It's really cold here.

Speaker 4 (03:21):
I mean there's cold here.

Speaker 2 (03:22):
It's real cold.

Speaker 3 (03:23):
Yeah, what what like twenty thirty? What's your temperature like?
fIF man, we had a rapid forty five in Houston,
so that's nothing.

Speaker 4 (03:37):
Yeah. I don't envy you at that position.

Speaker 2 (03:39):
Some people don't laugh. Well, yeah, we have two.

Speaker 4 (03:42):
Seasons, hot and hotter.

Speaker 3 (03:44):
Yeah, yeah, Bruce, We've got obviously a pay per view
last night to talk about Raw tonight, and heads up
to the listeners that you'll want to stick around for
the last sixty seconds of the show and we'll find
out why in the last sixty seconds of the show,
So an extra incident to stay with us for the

(04:06):
entire sixty minutes of today's P to B towards live
cast birus your thoughts on last night's pay per view.
For those of you are who aren't Torch VIP members,
recommend the Torch VFP membership options just for the pay
per view audio roundtable. If for no other reason, just

(04:28):
for the pay per view audio roundtables that we do
usually Wade Teller Vostess with Bruce and Pat Meneil on
Sunday nights. After each step v and TNA pay per view,
usually adding a little bit more entertainment value to the
pay per view than the pay per view itself, especially
in the case of last night's show. First, what was
your overall thought on the show TNA funal resolution and

(04:49):
was there anything beyond just it's TNA from last night's show,
anything that kind of jumped out at you.

Speaker 2 (04:56):
The the number one star has a drud from I
mean that jumps out at me. I mean the last
time he was when he did his YouTube video with
his brother. Both of them were you know, under the
you know, under the influence of something, and their poor
came out yesterday that there were some problems before the
show where they thought very seriously about pulling them, about

(05:18):
pulling Jeff from the from the main event and taking
the title off of him, and he did, Russell, I
wouldn't say, put on a fusing much more than a
mediocre performance. And of course the excuses came out today
that he was still tied from going overseas a week
ago and booking himself on a booking himself on a autograph

(05:41):
session in Michigan or something. And for people who would
like to believe that, I'm sure that there are people
who can believe that, and he's facing you know, he's
going to going to court, and you've got to figure
it sooner rather than later that these continuances that are
going to end and he's going to go to court
on phellowy drug charges. So, uh, it's not a good scene.
That part of it. You know, that part of it

(06:01):
just was not a good scene at all.

Speaker 4 (06:03):
And then.

Speaker 2 (06:06):
You know, I mean we've seen if even and I
know you haven't changed. I mean, if you follow this
business for any ngth for Tom, you've seen you know,
the shocking desks, and then you've seen the people going
downhill and you know, I remember Brian Tolman and there's
a lot of them that besides that that has happened
where you heard and you experienced what they're kind of
what they were doing in different pieces and and things

(06:28):
came to a trag again and you just really have
just not at what's going on here with Jeff Harney.
So that part of it, and then I just thought,
I don't know how people who saw the show thought
about machine guns and generation me, but I thought that
finish four ladders or three ladders or five ladders or
whatever it was with a table balanced up on the

(06:48):
ladders because the guys were too short to be able
to reach the title belts without having the benefit of
the table, making a platform standing up. Two guys bearing
up on the platform trying to stay balanced as throwing
these really weak looking missing chair shots at each other
while a pendulum of two title belts swung back and

(07:10):
forth may have been one of the silliest looking, least
credible simulated fight scenes I think I've ever seen. I mean,
it was just and you know, bad enough. You gotta
wait for those guys to build that jungle gym to
climb on, but it you know, I know, and I
really I just had a hard time believing that anybody
thought that great. I could see people thinking some of
the spots on the mats for Gray or some of

(07:31):
the some of the things, you know, some of the
wrestling back and forth was was good, but that ending
was just just wonder what, you know, has he gotten
this far away from what from? Has he gotten that
far away from its space from its origins that you
that you just make up anything in the world to
do and then do it, and you know, we're supposed
to We're supposed to cheer them because it's not easy

(07:53):
to do, or it's or they're risking their bodies to
entertain us. I mean, I don't know, but that that
was there, and there was some you know, and then
the rest of it. There's some good wrestling on the show.
I thought there's some decent stuff.

Speaker 3 (08:05):
Yeah, the Guns Generation Me match just I mean, they
tried to be just overly ambitious.

Speaker 4 (08:10):
I think it's one of those.

Speaker 3 (08:11):
Things where they've done everything.

Speaker 4 (08:13):
I mean, what else can They've done?

Speaker 3 (08:15):
An empty arena match, They've done a couple of backstage bits,
they've had two or three title matches on pay per view.

Speaker 4 (08:22):
You know, what else do you do?

Speaker 2 (08:24):
You know, I can understand this. It's a function of
having wrestled you know, a few that's lasted what three
years now, When you do that, you're gonna run out
of things to do. But you know, when you know,
actually these guys have been wrestling what weeks at a time,
a few a few months at best, and you know,
when you compress everything and when you super serve everything
because you've got to get a rating that you never

(08:45):
get and you have things like that empty arena match
and all that, and you know, the fast of the
matter is if you book it well, and you booked
the characters to have a believable conflict which with each other,
you don't have to do all that to keep everybody attention,
and well really should be able to keep everybody's attention.
Those those two teams have very solid, very good matches

(09:07):
with each other where they don't have to climb up
on on four ladders and stand on a table and
swing a chair and all the rest like stuff. I mean,
you could, you know, they're good enough to do that.
But part of it is, you know, part of it
is understanding really how to how to connect with the
crowd and in more than a way of you know,
this is awesome, this is awesome stunt stuff, and that's

(09:29):
that's a big you know, that's a big part of it.

Speaker 4 (09:32):
Yeah, my last night, Yeah, I guess where it fell short.

Speaker 3 (09:36):
You know, they were trying to I think I'm not
sure if it's you or Patter Wayne to described a
sort of going for the video game pop you know
from that crowd, and that crowd is you really I mean,
it's not worth trying to play to that crowd because
they won't pop for anything.

Speaker 2 (09:51):
But well, you know, here's the other thing about the
video game pop. Video games are fun to play, and
you know, and you get you can get into a
story in a video game and be the character in
the story and and and play for hours of the
time and play against each other and all that kind
of thing. You know what it is, You know, it's
not fun. It's to sit next to somebody playing a

(10:11):
video game and watch them play either you I mean
think about either you want to play yourself, or you're
watching it and there's no pace to it, there's no reddle.
It just goes on and on and on. And I
actually try to explain to sometimes because you're trying to
teach kids how to how to write stories, and they
want to write about what they've done, you know, tell
about a fun day that you have. And well, I

(10:33):
me and my cousin sat and played video games, and
I'll just one of the things I tell them is
that's fun to do, but it's boring. But if you
if you ever sat there and watch somebody play play,
how long did you watch, well, just a few minutes.
What's wrong with it? It's boring, it's boring to read
about it. You've got to turn it into something for
the reader. And the same thing with if you're trying
to pace, if you're trying to turn your match into

(10:53):
video games in the video game footage, it kind of
has the same problem. You know, it's it looks fun
to do and it takes is creative and all that,
but you're you don't have the pacing of the story
that's gonna hold people. And I think that's part of it.
I thought it was a cloud last night, Tina. You
kind of said the TNA crowds except anything they do.

(11:15):
I can't blame them. They're in there for three months
from the time and and you know they get they did,
they get played too. But I just thought last night
that crowd didn't have the energy that the TEENA impact
crowds or T and A or l other crowds usually have.

Speaker 3 (11:30):
I mean, these guys a function of them recognizing where
where T and A is or just a function of
we've already seen pretty much all this.

Speaker 4 (11:38):
We've seen a bit in Pope.

Speaker 3 (11:40):
We've seen Jared and Joe, you know, we've seen Morgan Hardy,
We've seen this song and Dan is it. What do
you think that that crowd? You know, it's typically easy
I have a pot you get from them. Why do
you think that crowd was a little bit I guess
slacking last night.

Speaker 4 (11:55):
Let's think one of.

Speaker 2 (11:56):
Thady's in the last four or five months, along with
you know, along with Immortal coming in and being you
know's ay and that stuff is even less of the
quality control, even less of the of the stuff. So
I think that there's been the hot shot level has
has increased. And what happens is you do that, particularly
from the second crowd. At first they really like it.

(12:18):
After a while they don't pay attention to anything because they,
like you said, they see it all and they just
don't you know, they're just not buying it. And it's
hard to keep your energy going when your first matches,
you know, when your second matches will walk and brawl
all the way through everything but into the bathroom. Yeah, yeah,
I mean, you know that's kind of you know, there's

(12:38):
no times that there's no time to catching breath, there's
no time to you know, you just and nothing really
counts to right.

Speaker 3 (12:46):
Yeah, that's the thing, And that's kind of what I
wrote about in my column. Just trying to look at
that show last night, it just did it didn't feel
like it mattered. It's irrelevant. It's like a lame duck show,
you know. And it's not, like I said, it's not
like you know, in January we have I'll call and
Eric Bischoff coming in.

Speaker 4 (13:03):
There's some hope.

Speaker 3 (13:04):
You know, there is no next thing for TNA.

Speaker 4 (13:07):
It's just the same thing.

Speaker 5 (13:10):
To me.

Speaker 3 (13:11):
To me, the two most disappointing things. I mean that
you can look at the bookying and the finishes. We
all kind of expect that from TNA. To me, the
two most disappointing things in the show. Last night you
mentioned the stand up roll that that feud was played
as a serious, uh you know, intense feud between Mickey
and Taror, and they turned it into into the comedy

(13:31):
in the restroom. I just that just bother on my mind.
And another thing was the camera work. And I mean
I woke up this morning feeling like I had verdigo,
Like I'm serious, Like it took me a while to
get up this morning because of how dizzy I felt
watching that pay per view with the camera shots they
were doing. It was just it was I don't know
what they were doing. I don't know what they were
thinking with that.

Speaker 2 (13:51):
But I also that that was some sort of innovation.
I kind of think there was a lot of mistakes
in the production last night. Yeah, well, I mean a
whole lot from the beginning of the show Don't Be
Going Black. There was you know, there was video packages
over and over again that weren't queued right, that went
to the wrong place and just weren't They just weren't there.

(14:11):
And I wonder whether there's there's camera shops that just
badn't produced. But yeah, I don't know that was that
was as long as fun, as fun as what happened
in that bathroom and all that. I just thought, at
the end of the day, it's the knockouts, and they're
going to do that really mean humor, you know, that
really means anti women. You know, let's make it let's
let's flush the girls heading the toilet and not mentioned it.

(14:33):
Let's let's let's push the girls head in the urineal
and then you know, and then knock her out and
have her way down on the you know, ever play
down on the you and so bathroom floor and all
that kind of stuff. It was just you know, so
I mean that that's who those people are, and you
know from you know, the people that are in charge
of it, and that's who they are. And that's so
I'm not I'm not surprised after seeing that happen with

(14:56):
you know, seeing that happen over and over and over
again with the knockouts. So just because it was a
higher level of wrestling and a higher level of a few,
you know, high level intensity, doesn't mean that they recognize
that they're going to go for the They're going to
go for what they think it's for the gut laugh.
You know, wouldn't it be part of you know, let's
put our thousand the bathroom. They can run out there.
They'll be happy. To the people that work for us,

(15:17):
that'll be They'll be on TV so they can tell
our friends, and you know that that helps keep what
is by all accounts, it's bad.

Speaker 4 (15:25):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (15:26):
You know, baddle locker room and it's bad.

Speaker 6 (15:27):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (15:28):
You know, it's low morale place to work, and there's
been a wrestling and in a good while.

Speaker 1 (15:35):
Anytime you're watching w W E Raw or SmackDown or
ae W Dynamite in particular, send us an email if
you've got thoughts on the show or a topic you
want us to address, or a question for us Wade
Keller Podcast at pw torch dot com. Wade Keller Podcast
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(15:58):
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We invite that interaction. Let us know what you think
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Wade Keller Podcast at pw torch dot com.

Speaker 3 (16:14):
Yeah, there you go. Well, also, of course, take phone
calls on Row tonight the return of Rainy jorton the
Big Angle amongst the announcers with Michael Cole and Jerry Lawler.
I mean very sort of if we're get a phone calls,
what's your takeaway from what we're gonna see at tonight's
show in terms of is the main story Colin Lawler?

Speaker 4 (16:36):
Is it mis and Orton?

Speaker 6 (16:38):
Is it?

Speaker 3 (16:38):
CNN?

Speaker 4 (16:38):
NeXT's is the Shamus? What's kind of your big story
for tonight's show.

Speaker 2 (16:42):
I'd be very very Surprisedible Cole, Michael Cole, and Jerry Lawler.
I would my guesses and I don't. I'm actually very
well be wrong with my guesses that they come to
an uneasy truth and then they go back to call
her stuff the way they were. Yeah, I don't think
Jerry Lawler's out of there, and I don't think the
Michael Cole, you know, I don't think they want to
spend their time having Michael Cole getting beaten up by

(17:04):
Jerry Waller or of building that I'm certainly had not.
You know, we'll see it. H you know Rand Norton,
you know, Rand Norton I think comes back after this, So,
I mean that would be part of the other part
of it is of course John so.

Speaker 7 (17:20):
You know.

Speaker 2 (17:22):
John Cena and and nex with and you know which
way do they go with that? Do they start doing
the Wan Sina stuff? Do they do something if I
do only for the house shows or what do they do?

Speaker 6 (17:30):
You know?

Speaker 4 (17:31):
What do they do?

Speaker 3 (17:32):
Yeah?

Speaker 8 (17:33):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (17:33):
And I thought they might start the one Seena last
week and playing it out for a while. And I
don't know, maybe they you know, instead of doing the
ticket buying, you know, seeing about two tickets last week.

Speaker 4 (17:43):
This week he shows up with a mask.

Speaker 3 (17:45):
I don't know if that's for the direction they're going
with it, and or he just shows up as John
Cena and they just continue it and lead to Barrett
gives him the match that he wants to get back
in the company. H We'll see, you know, it should
be interesting tonight. I imagine they'll probably killed in the ratings.
Uh if the Jets and the Patriots game is pretty competitive,
those total two top teams.

Speaker 2 (18:05):
So it'd be interesting to see what kind of show it.

Speaker 4 (18:08):
I mean, they go all out trying to compete. Do
they kind of phone it in?

Speaker 3 (18:11):
Do they look ahead to the Slammys and TC and say,
how you know it's a week off.

Speaker 4 (18:16):
So I'll be interested to see what kind of show
we get tonight.

Speaker 2 (18:18):
So let's go ahead, let's suspend we get a pretty
much a normal off show. I don't I don't know
what theyre. I don't know what they have to really
go harding us the football game, and and in truth
of the matter is they'll go a certain amount down
if you know, there's a hot football game and their
crowd is a lot softer than it used to be
about switching nervous, so they'll be a I mean that'st

(18:39):
we get that three point out of three point one
and I don't think that's fatal, but I don't think
that's good.

Speaker 4 (18:44):
Yeah, yeah, it's true. Again. You're gonna join us on
the Live CATT today the.

Speaker 3 (18:49):
Next forty five minutes leading up to rod tonight. Give
us a call A six four six seven, one nine
eight two eight. Let's go to the three three seven
eery code. Thanks for holding, Welcome to show, and please
seat your and and where you're from?

Speaker 9 (19:03):
Hey, James and Bruce Mike from Louisiana.

Speaker 4 (19:06):
How's it going doing?

Speaker 2 (19:07):
Ben Mike?

Speaker 4 (19:08):
What do you have for today?

Speaker 9 (19:10):
I got a TNA question real quick on the Dixie
Carter of Bischoff Hogan's storyline. If Hogan and Bischoff were
actually served a couple of weeks ago, then why was
Bishoff allowed to be involved in the pay per view
and in the whole deal with the referee last night?

Speaker 4 (19:29):
I believe just Hogan was served.

Speaker 3 (19:31):
If we're gonna break down the semantics of the storyline,
I believe it was just Hogan.

Speaker 4 (19:36):
Who was served with the papers.

Speaker 3 (19:37):
So I guess Bischoff was not included as a defendant.

Speaker 2 (19:42):
That's not only that, but I only think he was
served with papers. Was the way where I read it,
and I actually did watch it. I think I got
it was that that it was. It was a storyline
thing to explained why these two superstars were coming in
like they did during the Monday Night Wars. It was
to say that Dicky Carter, who of course is the Babyface,

(20:03):
has enjoined and gotten an injunction by I don't know,
sleeping with a judge, a friend of the you know,
a friend of the family judge getting the end with
a judge, so that Hulk Cogan can't sign any of
the super superstars that he was out recruiting for Keny
and A And that was so I think that was it.
So I don't know, you know, Hogan, you know, Hogan

(20:24):
can work through Eric Bischoffer or whatever it is to
do whatever it is there. But there certainly wasn't that
Hogan had no power, I don't think. And you been Eric,
you know, Eric wasn't even involved in it. So I
think that's what it was there for, and nothing more so.
In other words, why isn't Matt Hardy here, Why isn't
you know, why is an MVP here? You know, right
off the bat, So, you know, I think that's what

(20:46):
it was there.

Speaker 3 (20:46):
For Yeah, and Michael go back to you in a
second for your follow up, bris I mean Hogan, I mean,
Hogan wasn't on.

Speaker 4 (20:53):
The show last night. Clair.

Speaker 3 (20:56):
You know, the story was that flair they.

Speaker 4 (20:58):
Didn't have anything for him.

Speaker 3 (20:59):
Uh. Do you read any anything into Hogan not being
on that show, either you know, having the the deal
where you know, Dixie Carter has him bands in the building,
or just you know, just not being part of the
show at all. Do you read anything into.

Speaker 4 (21:11):
That at all?

Speaker 2 (21:13):
I'm no, He's not at every show.

Speaker 3 (21:16):
Yeah, it's just just where having to work out that way.

Speaker 2 (21:19):
Yeah, you know, I mean, you know he might be
out of the beach with the new Mississil, he might,
you know what, whatever it was he felt like doing
the the the pay reviews are even pay per views
are something they do because they have a contract to do.

Speaker 4 (21:34):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a good point.

Speaker 3 (21:36):
Okay, Mike, do you do you have another question or
follow h.

Speaker 9 (21:40):
WWE related question if you guys don't mind, when do
you see them start possibly announcing some of the inductees
for the Hall of Fame.

Speaker 4 (21:51):
There's a good question.

Speaker 3 (21:52):
I mean, Jim Ross hinted in his blog a couple
of weeks ago that it would start eminently. You know,
I think that this week would be eminently. So, I mean, Bruce,
do you think we'll get any announcements by the end
of this year? Do you think we're gonna wait until
at twenty eleven uh to start hearing the Hall of
Fame inductions?

Speaker 2 (22:10):
Uh, you know, I think it'll start. The starts the
thing kind of every year. I mean, I think twenty
eleven and and that's that, you know, we'll start hearing.
I wouldn't is proud to hear a list of potential
people and we've you know, heard a little bit. I'm
thinking Sean Michaels. I think Sean Michael said lives it.
And then you know Arna Anderson and some more people
that work in Georgia. They have associations with you knows,

(22:31):
with w W A. So I wouldn't be surprised. But
what I'm not looking for is Leigh Anderson. So I'm
I can't remember, is Jim Barnett in the in the
Hall of Fame?

Speaker 4 (22:41):
Jim I'm in the w W Hall of Fame? Yeah,
I don't believe, so I'd have to double check that.

Speaker 2 (22:50):
But uh, if he's not, I wouldn't be surprised to
see him. But you know, you know some some mid
card eighties and nineties guys who who had done our
you know, who have you know who have done okay
and haven't either turnin Randy Dram or Dodd.

Speaker 4 (23:04):
So yeah, exactly, Mike, good call. We appreciate that you
joined the wide cast today.

Speaker 3 (23:12):
Let's go ahead and go to our next phone call
from the sixty five to one here code sixty five one.

Speaker 4 (23:17):
Welcome to the show. I please state your name and
where you're from. Hey, guys, it's Mike from Woodberry.

Speaker 8 (23:22):
How you doing today?

Speaker 4 (23:23):
Joe's good, Michael. What's going on today?

Speaker 3 (23:25):
Well, not that I think Bruce is on.

Speaker 10 (23:27):
Is something with the Shawn Michaels thing, because as much
talk as there's been about how this is going to
be the w c W team year, I think we
don't vince McMahon enough to say, yeah, there'll be plenty
of w CW names, but WW is still above that.
We have all the great names like sting Arn Anderson,
et cetera, saidup, but Seohn Michaels is still above all them. Obviously,

(23:48):
he's the greatest WW performer of all time. According to
that DVD coming out, so that's important year to have.

Speaker 3 (23:54):
Shawn Michaels, Yeah, I don't always.

Speaker 4 (23:59):
Yeah, yeah, First go ahead and Michael go back to you.

Speaker 2 (24:03):
You know, I think people expecting a w CW presence,
and perhaps it will be there, but I don't think
it will be a theme or anything like that. I
think it'll be you know, I think it'll be from
people from nationally for WWF and maybe a few from Georgia,
but Georgia doesn't have this huge you know, they're gonna
want a few from Atlanta, but Georgia doesn't have this
huge nostalgia thing anymore. So anyway, nothing like that.

Speaker 4 (24:28):
Yeah, Mike, thank you well.

Speaker 10 (24:30):
Question of comment today. First to comment, I was I
was bringing in another site a rumor and I believe
it's probably true, but it might not. But if it is,
it's hilarious that it's. McMahon has gone out and told
the writers to come up with a new concept for
a cage match because he thinks the helen of cell
match has run its course. Well, I think if that

(24:52):
is true, it's pretty lappable because a hell in a
cell match that should never run its course of this book,
probably from you I mean from the dawn of man
till till the sun is imploding on itself. That match
should never run its course. But when you inorganically book
all on the Cell matches with feuds that are in

(25:13):
Helen's not worthy and have a PG product that hamper
it the way it's supposed to be used.

Speaker 6 (25:18):
I just thought that was.

Speaker 10 (25:19):
Hilarious when I read it today, and I just wanted
to know. I mean, Bruce, you kind of touched on
it about how they've done so much, They do so
much now they get so little in return, and I
think this is just another example of that, the idea
that the Hell on the Cell matches ran its course
just because maybe it's not popping the pay per view rate,
they think they wanted to. They think that it's not

(25:40):
the drop once, even though it's just an inorganic feuds
that have been in Helmet cell matches for the last
few years.

Speaker 2 (25:47):
Yeah, I mean, I mean that the organic food part
just that instead of having a feud having a groage
between two wrestlers where they just can't seem to settle
it because so rough and so violent, and every kind
of stipulation they come up with, there's something that goes
wrong at the end that finally you just said that

(26:08):
finally the blowoff matches, we're going into hell in the
cell and one guy's coming out on the winner and
the other guy's going to come out very best and
down the ladder as the loser, and you're going to
see a final resolution excuse the expression, you know, to
this to this long time storyline, and that's that's where
you really get something effective out of a cage match,

(26:29):
out of a hell of a sell match. But just
to say, you know, in a month, we're gonna have
a couple of hell in the Cell matches and guess
who's going to be in it. And you haven't had
that build, that that one step up, you know, more
exciting than the next, and the twist and turns until
you get to the end, and you know, and basically
the hero, the hero cornering the rat in the cage

(26:53):
and the rat being a dangerous rat, you know, and
then having you know, then having the fight, and I
think that's I think that's you know, that the gimmicks,
the demmicks unmoored from why the gimmicks from the first place.
I think it's done a lot of damage and I
think about. I mean, I think the biggest thing has
been a long dammage in this business is that they're
not that those companies don't learn from what from what

(27:15):
mistakes they made and don't learn from what they did.

Speaker 3 (27:17):
Like, yeah, good place, Bruce, Mike, did you have another
another question?

Speaker 10 (27:25):
Well, that was the best column you've ever written, Bruce,
was a couple of years ago, two three years ago
when you just flat out wrote every kind of stipulation
match in the book and the original reason why they
came up with and gave a sensible reason to every
one of them, from a lumberjack match down to a
first blood match to a field cage match, and you just.

Speaker 11 (27:46):
Spoke on it.

Speaker 10 (27:47):
So it's a pleasure to just tell you what a
great job you did. I've had one in all your columns,
but you know what we're talking about today.

Speaker 2 (27:54):
And that one. That one. Honestly, there was a time
when everybody in the wrestling doesn't could have written that
basic column. Everybody was the ad something to do with
the creative, you know, and and and many of the
fans could have written that because they knew the formula,
they knew how it worked, and they knew why you
know why they're having lumberjet match because the heel kept
running away and you know the ed lumberjacks around the

(28:16):
ring to when he started to run away throw them
back in. And so I mean that one, I appreciate
what you're saying. I really do. And I wrote it
because I thought it needed to be written. But and
I still think it used to be written. But it
shouldn't be that that that that needs to be written.
I mean that should be just basic stuff and as
cold do that job, know to do and know how
to do it.

Speaker 12 (28:43):
I'm Kelly Wells, host of p w T Talks NXT,
the longest running NXT podcast anywhere. Join me along with
Nate Lindberg, Bruce Lee Hazelwood and special guests live every
Tuesday night, just minutes after NXT, where we covered the good,
the bad, and the ugly on the way to becoming
a star in WWE. Check us out live on YouTube
or a stream later wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 4 (29:13):
Yeah, okay, I do have a quick.

Speaker 10 (29:16):
Question then today and this won't be needed to take
too long to be spent on but Friday down on SmackDown,
Dulciger and Drew McIntyre wrestle Caval and m VT, and
every guy in the match was wearing royal blue, black
or white. McIntyre was wearing a Scotland flag attire blue
and white. Figure was wearing black and an MTV MVP

(29:39):
and Caval we're wearing royal blue, black and white. And
can you tell me is there any thought process that
goes into in the past or present on what before
the match they're wearing the same outfit or who wears
what outfit? Has there ever been controversies about that or
any thought that goes into that, because I just thought

(30:00):
that was kind of weird and not that I couldn't
tell the guys a part or who has a bats
to heal, but there had to have been a time
in the past where where something like that's been a dressed.

Speaker 4 (30:13):
Yeah, I mean that's interesting. I mean, Bruce to me,
is it's an HD thing.

Speaker 3 (30:17):
You know in today's you know in WW twenty ten,
it's you know, who looks good at HD and what colors.

Speaker 4 (30:23):
Look good on them.

Speaker 3 (30:24):
I don't know if there's any much I don't know
if it's a specific coordination thing, but I mean, Bruce
sheds some more light on one why you think that's
the case.

Speaker 2 (30:32):
You know, I mean, I think that's part of it.
But I think also that's part of the detail work,
and that's part of the things you see on television
that you don't really give a whole lot of thought to.
Is the balance of the callers and you know, people
people interacting with each other, and you not be you know,
making sure people aren't distracted distracted by some things, and
also send me sup a little more messages and doing that.

(30:53):
In costuming and professional wrestling goes back decades. You know,
they might they might four shot a bad guy turning
into a character babyface good guy instead of wearing only black,
starting to wear a little bit of white and vice versa,
starting to wear things that looked a little more aggressive
and starting to, you know, really paying attention to those

(31:16):
little things. And a lot of a lot of it
was guys knew as they stayed in a territory for
a while, you know that they were going to you
know that that a heel who stayed in a territory
for two long a while was gonna give respect if
he kicked ass, even if he cheated and ran it.
You know it was a coward at the end he
was gonna get some respect, and so there's gonna be

(31:37):
a time when he was gonna turn babyface. And they
start preparing for them, and they start preparing a little
bit of the time for it. And that was a
way that you didn't and you know, fans didn't notice,
you know, overtly, but they noticed sometimes and it got
people ready and all that stuff, you know, all that
little detail working. You would think that WWE as being
an organization they have and with the costuming department, because

(32:00):
you know, the wrestlers would just take care of that
themselves for the costs that they knew their own characters,
the characters that they played and had the experience of
craving and molding themselves, along with the bookers that they
work with. That was you know, so that part they
really kind of you know, dropped the ball. But you're
noticing that, you're noticing this kind of an imbalance of

(32:20):
of guys wearing the same car all of them were
in the same collars. Uh. That's interesting because usually you know,
usually w you know, if you look back ten years ago,
you loved back a few years ago, they've usually got
a balance of one guy's got this and other guys
like got that and people don't look too much together,
and they need to pay attention to that, particularly since
they have so many wrestlers who have the same body.
Now you have that, you know, have that male model

(32:45):
body instead of the you know, instead of the fighter's body.

Speaker 3 (32:48):
So yeah, yeah, that's definitely true, especial as a SmackDown
where so many wrestlers seeing there changeable.

Speaker 4 (32:56):
You know, those are good points. Ever, is you're listening
to the P two meatories live cast? Is this b tow.

Speaker 3 (33:01):
Torch Assistant editor James Caldwell hosting today alongside.

Speaker 4 (33:05):
Towards Columbus Bruce Mitchell.

Speaker 3 (33:06):
Gonna join us on the live cast. If you're listening
to us live on the air here on blog Talk Radio,
the number to call is six four six, seven to one.

Speaker 4 (33:15):
Nine, eight to eight. Mike, good to hear from me.

Speaker 3 (33:18):
Glad that you called in. We talked a little bit
of wrestling there.

Speaker 4 (33:21):
Let's go ahead and go to our.

Speaker 3 (33:22):
Next phone call from the seven six area code seven
six no.

Speaker 4 (33:26):
Welcome to the show.

Speaker 3 (33:26):
Please state your name and where you're from.

Speaker 13 (33:30):
Hey, it's Larry from Atlanta.

Speaker 3 (33:32):
Hey Larry, what's going on today?

Speaker 13 (33:36):
Hey guys, Sorry, my connection is not that great, so
I'll just keep it kind of keep it brief. But
for final resolution, do you do either of you have
a hypothesis on why Mickey, James and Tara did not
veto the idea to make their brawl look comedic by

(33:59):
going in the men the rest room?

Speaker 3 (34:02):
Yeah, I mean, Bruce, do you think that when they
were presented with that and this is the finish that
we're going to utilize in this match? I mean, I
don't know I would react, But if you're in their
situation where you know they're trying to hold onto a
job and you know, I guess they trust that Tien

(34:22):
has something in mind for this. You know, how would
you react if you're given that finish? And how would
you react if you had to carry that out on
pay per view and end up on the on the
floor of a men's room.

Speaker 2 (34:34):
I think that they both, you know, want to do it,
and I mean want to have that job and know
that that things are getting cut back and you know
that the people are you know slower, Joe is working
off off of not being on a contract, and I
think that they went along with it. They've got both
of them have gone along with some stuff that wasn't

(34:55):
that great WW and and I think they, you know,
I think they they played along. Maybe they objected and
we'll hear about it later on. I don't know that
if they did or not, I suspect, you know, if
times are tough, there's not that many jobs that gives
management leverage and maybe they and the don't think is
maybe they thought it was cool and funny. They would
be told that funny and maybe they liked it, so,

(35:16):
you know, I don't know. So I mean that's you know,
either way, it's not that great. But I think a
lot of wrestlers in both companies and particularly TNA, are
swallowing hard and just trying to get through whatever they're
there to get through. Because we all need jobs even
we all need to we all need to make a living.
And when you've got a specific skill set that doesn't

(35:38):
translate to much of anything else, and there's a shrinking
amount of jobs available, we don't see more of this
kind of thing, not less.

Speaker 3 (35:46):
Yeah, yeah, a good point, Larry, quickly back to you,
any other fall up on ed another question?

Speaker 4 (35:52):
Uh?

Speaker 1 (35:52):
Yeah, thanks James.

Speaker 13 (35:54):
I was gonna ask you guys related to that. I know, Bruce,
you've talked about how a lot of sort of the
art of the industry is gradually being lost, you know,
in terms of pacing, you know, doing writing angles and
stipulations for.

Speaker 1 (36:12):
The correct reasons.

Speaker 13 (36:14):
So sort of beyond that not wanting to rock the
boat mentality, do you also think it's sort of there
not not to put the women down or you know,
or any of the other wrestlers in TNA down, But
do you think there's also sort of a level of
ignorance as to how damaging going along with a lot
of these crummy angles and storylines is.

Speaker 2 (36:36):
Yeah, you know, you've got You've got a lot of
people in the business right now. They've been in the
business for several years and done in a certain way
and have not been held accountable for it, and don't
you know, don't see, well, there's not a good cloud here.
We don't set any papers. They don't feel they don't
feel responsibility for that. They just know this is how
you do this. And so I think that you've just

(36:59):
and the people that the people that know a lot
of the little parts have lost track of the big picture,
or there are in other businesses, or they are politically
out or what you know, whatever it is, and so
that what was handed down by generation to generation, not
only did it need to be handed down, but you
had to react. You have to react to, you know,
the changes in the culture now and you have to

(37:20):
coupled with your own way of doing things. And I
just think I just see, you know, mistakes being made
in things because it was never learned in the first place.
And you know, when you look at the agency and
what they were involved in, they weren't involved in big things,
or they weren't involved in a lot of subtle things.
And when you look at you know, it's that thing
of you keep your job, whether you're good or bad

(37:42):
at it, so you don't study what worked and get
rid of what didn't work and what didn't work. And
that's a big part of it. But I think that
it just really is stretching now. I mean, it's just
really more and more this is what we do and
this is how we do it, and it's happening in
WWE now and they're really paying for you know, they're
really playing price and pay for you buy rates and

(38:03):
how show attendance and revenue streams, and it's it's tough.
And then you know the thing that's really frustrating is
there's a model that in pro wrestling that's working, and
that's the model of what NNA does, what USC does,
and you know, it's just you know, the idea that
we've got to entertain. You're not. What's entertaining is the
drama of of guys put incredible situations and fighting, and

(38:30):
that's that's what's entertaining, not gosh, you know, she came
out of the bathroom ha ha ha ha, you know
and sprayed with Frederick fish Finger. So that's pretty First
time you see it, it's like, Wow, I've never seen
anything like that. Second time you see it, it's a while,
I've never seen it. The third time is like I've
already seen it, and you're you're kind of stuck. So it's,
you know, it's a lot of story tones. It's not

(38:51):
just what you do. But when any way, you're doing.

Speaker 3 (38:55):
Very good, Larry, appreciate your phone call today to hear
you from you today. But let's go to our next
phone call from the two eight one area code.

Speaker 4 (39:03):
But this is j N Houston. J Are you Jack
all doing?

Speaker 2 (39:07):
Jeff fine?

Speaker 14 (39:09):
Bruce's long time no conversation.

Speaker 7 (39:13):
Oh my question.

Speaker 14 (39:17):
Okay, man man. My question is regarding TNA in regards
to Samoa, Joe's tap out loss to Jeff Jarrett and
his contract being expired. Do you know if Joe has
had any negotiations with WWE, and if he could, would
he leed TNA to go there?

Speaker 6 (39:39):
Uh?

Speaker 3 (39:39):
I mean verse, I haven't heard anything about him talking
to w W. My hunt would be no, have you
heard anything different on that?

Speaker 2 (39:49):
I haven't heard that flap to say, you know, no,
I think right now he's trying to resign with TNA.
I think you say for the challenge of they're gonna try,
They're gonna try to cut back everybody as their contracts
come out, with maybe the exception of the big Stars,
which is you know, classic CNA, you know, waving the
people who they should be blaming for what's going on.
But yeah, I mean, I think right now they're trying

(40:10):
to work out something. He's trying to work out something
in CNA because it's it's even more hissy with WWE,
but it's fun. Did you say losing weight.

Speaker 3 (40:21):
If yeah, j What was the other part of your
question the second half of your question.

Speaker 14 (40:27):
Oh, no, No, I was saying if if he got
any kind of fashion from May than what he jumped
there in an instant. I mean, I mean seeing as
how they totally you pushed him.

Speaker 2 (40:40):
Well, what do you mean first he's he's not their
body type. He might be treated less than say Daniel
Briant's being treated. It depends on what they offer him.
What kind of confidence did he have. But I think
if he thought that he had a fighting chance there
as you know, going into mid card, I think he
I think he might take it. I mean, he sees

(41:01):
through what's going on in TNA and he's lived with
that frustration, and they've done some real damage to his marketability.
I mean, what can you say about being on national
television from a million people every week and uh, you're
less you know, you're less wanted on the unscene than
you were when you were looking ring him off and
you know, getting the exposure. I mean, I'm not even

(41:22):
saying something wrong with your earn what you know there was,
it was just getting the level exposure that you get
that you got. You know, he's he's this wrestler who
kicks ass, who never gets to kick ass, and anybody's
surprised by last night contractor no contract hasn't been paying attention.

Speaker 4 (41:39):
Mm hmmm.

Speaker 2 (41:40):
As far as I'm believing that Jeff Jarrett you.

Speaker 3 (41:42):
Know, yeah, yeah, I mean Jared was going to be
in that that title match, if you know, if they
decided to take Party out of that ton Of match
against Morgan, Uh, well, it was gonna be uh was
it Morgan and Jared's and uh Anderson. You know, it
was gonna be that three That was gonna be a
three way match for the idol, you know, because Jeff

(42:03):
is still it's still a promotion built around Jeff Jerry
at the end of the.

Speaker 2 (42:07):
Day, Well maybe someone that you know, it's about who
has the power, who's allowed to have the power. That's
that story they try to tell on television and no
effect that that really is. It's not about who's effective
or who's not effective, and the parts of this job
is effective at I mean, he gets superseded by doing that.
But I mean, you know, it's eight years and they

(42:30):
say this every time they are here.

Speaker 3 (42:31):
They are yeah, uh say any final thoughtswer of the
question or comment?

Speaker 14 (42:37):
Yes, I have another question, but first, as far as
Jeff Jenming and the main event, the quote Ruth, Yeah,
who My next question is who's more of a help and.

Speaker 2 (42:50):
Who's been more of a different than Oudam Jim Cannon.

Speaker 15 (42:52):
Triple Ah.

Speaker 14 (42:53):
That's a good one.

Speaker 4 (42:56):
I mean there are two different scales. I mean, you
know Jeff Jared oh in GNA, I mean doesn't really
make a difference in the big picture.

Speaker 2 (43:07):
You know, you know, you know Jays who's more of
a health Triple Hs, Triple Achens, I mean Triple H
for all the bigfoot and the heavy hand that he
has and he has it and all the things. He
gets criticized for looking out for himself first that that's true.
He has a string of several years of being an
important part of successful shows, the shows that drew that

(43:31):
drew big money and drew medium money. And he's he's
a star in professional I mean the star professional wrestling
is not start outside of it. And we'll see how
the star is when he comes back. But he is
a real star. Jeff Jarrett is not a real star.
That's a big difference. And Jeff Jarrett has put together shows,
and you have to put together shows in some of

(43:52):
which he's paid attention to some things and done all right,
But most of the time he's put together the shows
he's put together behind the scenes are old fashioned and
they haven't worked. He's not a mane of that star.
He's a glue guy, and now he's not a good
glue guy because he's been over pushed in the eyes
of so many people that they're not accepting him even
at that. He's a guy that he's the type of

(44:13):
guy that you use in the first match, in the
middle match, and at the top of the show and
then bringing back now and that's a valuable guy to have.
But he's not a consistent Maine eventor he's just not
whether he whether it's Daddy ran the promotion and he
was supposed to be Jerry King of Memphis Jerry Lawler
when he grew up or not, we're trifle h For
all the advantages he has, he still has a proven

(44:36):
track record. He's you know, he's a B plus ruffle
at the top of the at the top of the
car who's not failed. You can't say that he's failed.
It's two very different things. Now, if you're a fan
and you're to which one are some fans more tired of?
Which one gets more tiresome to me? Jeff Jarrett does.
But there's a There's been plenty of times when I'm

(44:57):
just you know, you know, you know, you just want
to say lighten up to trouble lights. I get that,
but it's you know, it's big dog and little dogs
as far as listed.

Speaker 4 (45:08):
Mm hmm yeah, uh, good call, Jay.

Speaker 3 (45:11):
Appreciate you joined the Live caft today.

Speaker 1 (45:15):
If you missed it earlier. Just a reminder, we're running
our second VIP sale of the year. We don't do
these often, take advantage of it now. It is a
limited time offer. Take nine dollars off a VIP subscription
a one month, three month or one year sub It
brings the one month sub down to just three dollars
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twenty twenty five, and that takes nine dollars off. When

(45:38):
you check out on our sign up form pw torch
dot com, slash go vi IP give you full details
on membership benefits and links to our sign up form.

Speaker 3 (45:48):
Let's go to our next phone call from the eight
sixty five ere gode eight six five.

Speaker 4 (45:52):

Speaker 3 (45:53):

Speaker 16 (45:55):
Hey can on GADD Stephen from Tennessee.

Speaker 4 (45:57):
Hey, Steven, let's go on to say.

Speaker 16 (46:00):
Nothing much man, that's kind of tacking back and Martina
Lner and talking to you guys. Ken answered earlier, but
I kind of wanted to game gets a little gateway.

Speaker 2 (46:10):
Question that my first one. Has it been confirmed?

Speaker 16 (46:13):
Definitely, it's not just the romarial that Jeff Hardy was
clinical hammered or a little a little under the influence
at the pay per view last night.

Speaker 4 (46:22):
Yeah, as best as I know.

Speaker 3 (46:23):
I mean, well, when I when I was told about it, uh,
you know, from a couple of different people right before
the pay per view, and those are the words that
they use, you know, and so there's all you know,
the reasons that it's come out. You know, he's exhausted,
that sort of thing. But you know these are people
that I trust. You know, It's not like it just uh,

(46:44):
you know, randomly got some random information from you know,
third hand person.

Speaker 4 (46:47):
You know, it's uh THEO.

Speaker 2 (46:50):
You know, we got a couple of white I mean
it's through James pok through it's through other you know,
other sources that are you know, other neose new affiliates
for dependent to throw us and torch and and many
of them with credibility in this, you know, in the
in the business. It's also there's there's an unbroken string

(47:10):
for many years of this kind of behavior, including the
last time. And I say this again, if you go
up on YouTube and you look at that Jeff Hardy
and Matt Hardy video where where he's cursoningly not see
him pump and then a dinner at some the determined
time of the day, Jeff Hardy is clearly inebriate. He

(47:31):
knows clearly, you know, he's clearing something's going something's wrong.
And if you watch him last night, the level of
energy brought to that match, it wasn't a high level
of energy. His performances in the time that you know
w held him accountable, not always totally, but in the
last run. And there's no real indication that t Anda

(47:55):
ever has ten as just still behalve them to the
point where even when this happened yesterday, asking the fact
that he was able to get up and be coherent
after a few hours, they they gave him the win,
They kept the title on. And even though I mean,
you tell me, you tell me what entertainment entity or
what sports centered entity would allow a guy to headline

(48:19):
their show and in three days he's he's going up
on fellow drug charts. It's on national television. I mean,
it might be a band, that might be you know,
that kind of thing happened, but something on national television
of majors trying to try major advertisers trying to do that.
There is they signed them, you know, they signed them.

(48:39):
They haven't, they haven't bat in an eye, and the
situations got worse. I mean, there's it's a very it's
there's personal irresponsibility on the part of so many people
involved in this. And WND gets criticized and actually so
for a lot of what they've done over the years
and what they do. But this is, this is disgrace.

(49:02):
And as someone who's lived through as I talked at
the beginning of this, and James has too, hearing the
reports of people who are out of control and and
who were not helped and who are not you know,
not given tough love and and and hard choice is made.
You give them a chance to to to regain their health,

(49:25):
and you know he's not. And that's and not only
that his brothers, you know, his brother on that video
on the same video was was I'm slowing his words
and not too great either, So was you know, is
that something that you know, is that something when you
hear that he goes a rumors and oh he was
tired and all that. It's not just hearing that one time.

(49:46):
There's a pattern of behavior here and it goes away.

Speaker 3 (49:49):
Then yeah, yeah, I mean yeah, it's not like it was,
you know, someone who has no record at all and
to be you know, a major shock. It's you know,
it's just it to me, you know when I heard
about it, I wasn't surprise, you know, as unfortunate as
it is, it just that's.

Speaker 2 (50:06):
Just Jeff Hardy.

Speaker 3 (50:06):
I mean look at when you know, when he had
his first run in TNA and what he missed, what
three three flights he missed a couple of pay per views,
couldn't get to the airport, couldn't get.

Speaker 4 (50:16):
To the pay per views.

Speaker 3 (50:17):
So it's just, you know, it's a it's a lack
of respect.

Speaker 4 (50:21):
That is President TNA.

Speaker 3 (50:24):
In my estimation, it's you know, look at Roddy Piper,
you know when he was in WE and the the
Old School Raw. You know, I think Bruce even talked
about this there was a certain level of you know this,
this discounts, this matters. You know, I'm in a company
where there's a you know, a certain degree of accountability
that's that's.

Speaker 4 (50:42):
Not there in TNA.

Speaker 3 (50:44):
That when Piper was in TNA, you know, just kind
of rambling on and on years ago, and when he
went in that pay per views that it was just
sort of as just a general lack of respect for
TNA management or just TNA in general, and just that stage.
And I think it goes to the lack of this
vision makers who will step up and say, you know what,
why are why are we allowing.

Speaker 4 (51:04):
This to happen?

Speaker 3 (51:05):
You know, why don't we hold this company to a
higher level of respect for the behavior of talent.

Speaker 4 (51:10):
You know what, Why isn't there?

Speaker 2 (51:12):
Yeah, I don't want I mean, at this point, I
don't want to say what Jesse Carter isn't doing that
I had to cancel. I don't understand why Aery Bischoff
isn't doing that because the number of people that died
and they came out of w c W or during
the time at w c W that he was running
w c W, and he saw those problems firsthand, and
he did very little about it. I don't understand why
he hasn't learned from that. I don't I don't understand

(51:34):
what's so cool about you know, you know, pushing the concussions.
That the people who get concussions and who don't want
to wrestle, there's something wrong with them. They're not tough,
they're not you know, they're not you know, the kind
of things that he's doing. And you know, I just
I have no respect for this. And it's that was
the story yesterday. The rest of the pay per view,

(51:54):
it was just another day in the part, but that
was the story yesterday and what what happened this week?
And you know, maybe just continued again on Wednesday, But
at some point, you know, and you know, usually I
just seemed to know that when you're facing made your
charges and they haven't been dropped after a year and
they haven't been introduced and and all that, it's the

(52:15):
time that you clean yourself up and try to prove
to somebody, you know, you know, depending on which way
this goes, try to prove to somebody that you're taking
control of your life. And if anything, it's getting worse,
the situation is getting worse.

Speaker 3 (52:30):
Yeah, yeah, and the signs are there and uh yeah,
well we'll see what happens on Wednesday.

Speaker 4 (52:36):
Uh Stephen, back to giving a fault on the hearty story.
Another question or coming.

Speaker 7 (52:41):
I wanted I wanted to act think one in frisson
that I wanted to kind of clarify.

Speaker 2 (52:45):
I wanted to make parify. I kind of got on
my little sue buck. But y'all kind of have that
for me.

Speaker 7 (52:49):
But it's one of those things that I just can't
believe it because you know, I've normal business, but especially
you know it's courage. Father runs the business that wasn't
hit employees showed out hammered or there's videos I need
to give him hammered everybod and hit a company and
that he had met would have been gone that day
that video came out.

Speaker 2 (53:03):
But here you know that part. Should always think about
that about how many stuff you know, I don't mean
in a rupt but that's a very good point. I
always think about that as far as you know wrestling,
it's like when it's to the managements and advantage to
add like a corporation, at like a corporation, when it's
to management advantage to act like it's a raffling. They

(53:24):
act like that, including visc Man, because I just wonder,
I mean, I just think about my job, you know,
you know, I'm a school teacher. How many times I
show up to work, you know, stones about how how
often that that would be tolerated. And I know that
back in the day, there are back in the day,
there were teachers who you know, had the flask in
their desk all that kind of nonsense. But that doesn't

(53:45):
that I know of, That doesn't go on today. And
you know, and you know, all whatever goodwill I built
up over the years about the teaching, I don't think
it would last very long if I started, if I
started showing up like that more than once. I mean
I think once it would be a major pot. Twice
it would be you know that I'd have to work
my way out of twice. I don't even want to
think about it. So, you know, and I think most

(54:07):
people's jobs are like that now. Most people's jobs are
you show up and you do your job and you're
not impaired when you do it. And the idea that
you know, the idea that big stars can can do that,
I mean even you know, you look at Charlie sheen,
and that's that's the accession to proves the rule. And
show business is a different thing than Jeff Hardy's and
show business. But by all accounts, when he's there filming

(54:31):
that show and filming whatever he's supposed to be, somehow
he's got it together. And so you know that's you know,
and he you know, he's driving major money where Jeff
Hardy's not driving any money anyway. And you know, and
they know so much damage has been done to the
business besides the human damage insides of the moral damage

(54:52):
and you know, the damage to families and friends and
and the people, just the public relations damage and the
advertising revenue damage, and just where it stands in society
because of these issues, because of people dying and just
you would think, you know, just human decency. The people
you'd work with, you would want them to be healthy
or at least be a little healthier. And you know,

(55:13):
where's anybody stepping up here, Where's anybody healthy? And you know,
certainly they have colors said they've got the Bob Cary
has the resources. So yeah, you know, we'll see, you know,
maybe maybe there's a last straw for even this company.
You certainly would host. Maybe not. I don't know, there's
a last and maybe at some point there's a there's

(55:33):
a rock Bottom or even Jeff Hardy, and it might
be one, you know, it might be what it comes out.

Speaker 3 (55:39):
Of one is then yeah, I think there's a key
words accountability, you know, I mean versus of your school.

Speaker 4 (55:45):
There there's accountability. You know, there's people to answer to
and DNA there isn't. And then that's that's one of
the main big differences.

Speaker 3 (55:53):
Uh, Stephen, you're you're the thought, you're the comment.

Speaker 7 (55:58):
Oh yeah, I guess, okay, I can get say that
that party's a lot of amateur prosecution on one of there,
with all the stuff he's doing. Anyway, Yeah, it was
earlier mentioning that, you know, you look at USC as
far as being successful as you know, fancy get more
caught up and the realistic drama of you know, restless
talk of restless sorry, these fires talking.

Speaker 16 (56:18):
To trash each other.

Speaker 7 (56:19):
You know, it's Saint Pierre and that collegeat getting ready
to wrestle, you know, from because of bringing his mount
and playing that bad guy role. I just kind of
thinking watching the Countdown show just before I came on
talk to you guys, a lot of restors could do,
could take a lot of notes on the way College
TA Cans helped promote this fight. Just start running in
his mouth about iout playing.

Speaker 2 (56:37):
The bad guy. You know, Yeah, I mean that's that's
all pro rustling. That's the pro rustling, that's the promos
is what got me in the pro wrestled, what got
me really enjoyed it and like that, and I just
through that. There's something about one. You know something about
one MM you see better promos with MMT you should
you know the fire you up to. I want to
see that fight, and better promos can do the whether

(57:00):
it's you know, whether it's you know they're gonna have
a work fight or a shoot fight. And the hype
is the same, and it's the hype that drives beside.

Speaker 11 (57:10):
You.

Speaker 2 (57:10):
It's like everything that drives decide.

Speaker 3 (57:13):
Yeah, and also Bruce, you know, they're part of something
where the actual fight matters.

Speaker 2 (57:20):
You know.

Speaker 4 (57:20):
I mean with a lot of wrestling promos, it's it's okay,
I'm gonna talk about this match, but is this match
going to happen? Is it going to matter?

Speaker 3 (57:27):
Or am I even gonna have time to talk about
why this match matters, you know what I mean, it's
just because the way the booking is too often in wrestling.
You know, does what am I even hyping? You know,
does this match even count?

Speaker 4 (57:42):
Does it matter?

Speaker 2 (57:44):
So you know a lot of rustlers know that they.

Speaker 4 (57:46):
Don't have the promo skills, but at the same time,
the bookers haven't put them in a position to wear
anything that they would say would matter. So I mean
that's an issue as well.

Speaker 2 (57:56):
And uh, well they don't you know, they don't talk
about fighting each other that much. And then they're talking. Yeah,
first they got to get in their jokes, and then
they got to get it in their clever pop cultural illusions,
and then they got to get you all this other
stuff and they forget to you know, just that adrenaline
rush of he dot com you know, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 (58:17):
Yeah, it's it's not there.

Speaker 3 (58:20):
Uh Steven, good call.

Speaker 4 (58:21):
Glad to hear from me today, and we appreciate your contribution.

Speaker 3 (58:24):
Let's go to another fall call from the nine to
five six area code nine five to six.

Speaker 4 (58:29):

Speaker 3 (58:30):
Please stay your name and where you're from.

Speaker 17 (58:32):
Hey guys, it's meant New Jersey.

Speaker 4 (58:35):
Hey, what's going on today?

Speaker 6 (58:37):
Hey?

Speaker 17 (58:37):
I just wanted to call in and ask about Uh.

Speaker 6 (58:41):
Tyler Black apparently just posted something.

Speaker 4 (58:44):
What are they both?

Speaker 17 (58:47):
He posted basically that he's backstage at raw and that
things are about to get interesting. So I wanted, I
guess maybe you didn't know about this and have I'm
gonna ask if you knew what excuse to be on
tonight or.

Speaker 4 (59:00):
I wonder if.

Speaker 2 (59:02):
I'll tell you what if I was a young if
I was a young rookie time in w w A
and I was at my first raw, I wouldn't twitter left.
I wouldn't tweet that. I mean, I'm not joking. I mean,
I'm not joking. Unless they unless they told them directly
to them maybe they did. Unless they, and I doubt
I got them very much, I would not have done that.
I would have I would have shut my mouth and

(59:24):
followed whatever they wanted to be the follow I mean
that job we'll see.

Speaker 3 (59:31):
Yeah, yeah, I mean unless you was specifically instructed to
say that.

Speaker 8 (59:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (59:35):
I mean, you know, I imagine if you know, if
Daniel Bryan or Wade Barrett.

Speaker 4 (59:41):
Or somebody on Twitter, uh, the day before.

Speaker 3 (59:44):
The next or the day of the Nexus thing, you know,
nobody had any idea that next was starting, or that
that angle was going to happen. And imagine someone says, oh,
you're gonna want to watch the endother raw, it's gonna
be kind of interesting. You know, I don't think they
would have lasted very long in that group. So unless
you're specifically instructed to say something, I am. I'm with you, Bruce,
I'm really surprised as for what he's hinting at, Brucey,

(01:00:08):
you care to venture a guess. Is that another invasion
type deal?

Speaker 8 (01:00:13):
Is it?

Speaker 4 (01:00:13):
Uh, you know, being thrown.

Speaker 2 (01:00:15):
Through the I don't think. I don't wish. Maybe he
wrestles on the show. Maybe maybe he runs as part
of you know, as part of something or somebody at
the at the wildest or the farthest end. I would
think might be you know, you get sued by you know,
you get to be one of the offer rams in nexas.
But I'd be surprised very much that. But you know,

(01:00:36):
we'll see I don't know the first time I heard
what about it. I know, James, you think I do
know everything, and I appreciate that. But well, by the
end of the Nies in a couple of minutes. But
but yeah, I mean, we'll see, I don't know. I
doubt it for you.

Speaker 4 (01:00:50):
Yeah, yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:00:53):
You know, it adds uh, I guess it adds another
level of intrigue to tonight show. I guess we'll find out.

Speaker 4 (01:01:00):
I mean I don't I mean, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:01:02):
They don't typically just introduce a completely new character, assuming
that he's actually on TV and it's not just a
thing where he's just backstage and you found out something
interesting is gonna happen and he's tweeting about it. I mean,
I don't imagine that w B would just say, oh,
here's hell of Black, you know, unless he's part of
a group or you know, he's maybe a druid but

(01:01:23):
with some sort of deal with Cane Undertaker.

Speaker 2 (01:01:25):
I mean, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:01:26):
I have no idea what what that could actually be,
just because he hasn't been on TV. You know, he
hasn't been introduced to the audience, so you know, if
they're looking for some big hot shot angle, you know,
the ardience is gonna be like, who's this guy? Uh,
depending on what exactly it is. So yeah, interesting, interesting
little development coming up on pepatorch dot com. The top

(01:01:48):
of the hour, we'll have live coverage.

Speaker 2 (01:01:50):
Of tonight's Raw.

Speaker 3 (01:01:51):
Not a three hour show, not a pay per view
hype show, just a standard two hour edition of Raw.
If you're not even towards v IP member, we've talked
about about the teena final resolution pay per view. You
can listen to last night's audio round table with Dake Keller,
Bruce Mitchell and Pat McNeil breaking down last night's pay
per views. So, uh, we'll give you, We'll give you

(01:02:14):
ninety seconds. We'll give you the full ninety seconds at
the end of the show. What is the special message
or word you have first at the end of today's show.

Speaker 2 (01:02:24):
Well, you know, James, I think you know that one
of the great suns of Texas God today, the most
innovative color commentator I think of them all, and the
guy that blaze the trail for a lot of what
you see not only in the main stream media and
in sports, but in some and I think we need to,

(01:02:45):
you know, smoke him if you got him, and we're
gonna pay tribute with Danny don there. This was a
first and only from pro roughing towards turn out the
lights the bodies over. They say that all good things
soon call it a night, the party's over, and tomorrows
starts the same whole thing to Dandy Don Meredith and

(01:03:08):
Alathon Heaven with Howard Coasts sound.

Speaker 4 (01:03:12):
There you go. I thought we might get Dandy Don
referenced it.

Speaker 3 (01:03:16):
I didn't know if it was me during the life
cast or and that was what your message was going
to be.

Speaker 4 (01:03:20):
So I appreciate you mentioning him.

Speaker 3 (01:03:23):
Well when you first you said textas, I thought you're
gonna celebrate uh Mac Brown and finally firing and Greg Davis, uh,
the Texas football coordinators.

Speaker 1 (01:03:30):
So you.

Speaker 2 (01:03:33):
Come back in and start talking after it about what's
going on with everything else? You know? That was let's
see that. You're not gonna catch me singing very often,
So there was. He would sing anytime the ball game
was out of was out of reach, instead of pretending
like it wasn't. He would sing turn out Willie Nelson's,
turn out the lights, the parties over. If you're thirty

(01:03:58):
five or over, you know all of the If you're
thirty five and number, you probably don't even probably don't
remember him at all.

Speaker 3 (01:04:05):
Well, I mean i've heard him, obviously, I've heard him.
If you if you watch any football, you've heard him.

Speaker 4 (01:04:09):
You know, so I know, Dandy Don it's uh, it's awesome.
I'm sad that I trampled on your time for yourself.

Speaker 8 (01:04:17):
But it was.

Speaker 4 (01:04:18):
It was good to hear you sing.

Speaker 3 (01:04:19):
That one, sing sing that tune on the way out.

Speaker 4 (01:04:22):
So appreciate that.

Speaker 3 (01:04:23):
Brism applige.

Speaker 2 (01:04:25):
The party is over. They say that all good things
must have done.

Speaker 3 (01:04:31):
There you go for Bruce Mitchell Torch Commas and this
is Torchs assistant editor James Cardwall signing on for today's
life cast.

Speaker 1 (01:04:41):
Give yourself a reason to look forward to going to
the mailbox each week with a PW Torch newsletter paper copy.
Subscription details at PW torch dot com slash paper Copy.
It's twelve pages every week, packed with my TV reports,
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the top story of the week, our pay per view
roundtable reviews from the tour staff, exclusive feature length columns

(01:05:02):
from Greg Parks, Rich Fan, Sean Radikin, Alan Coonahan and
Zach Haydorn, Torch Talk transcripts, the latest news and more.
PW torch dot com slash paper Copy. Take a break
from screen time and settle in every week with the
Megadosa wrestling news and analysis with a Pro Wrestling Torch
newsletter paper copy edition. In the year twenty twenty two.

(01:05:24):
You can get a full year of home delivery for
just ninety nine dollars, or try US four an eight
week trial subscription PW torch dot com slash paper copy.
Welcome to the PW Torch Live Cast. I am host
Wade Keller and it is Tuesday, December seventh, twenty ten.

(01:05:49):
I am the editor of the Progressing Torch newsletter and
PW torch dot Com and my daily blog Wadekeller dot Com.
And I am joined today as usual on Tuesdays by
Jason in Powell of Pro Wrestling dot Net. Jason, how's
it going today?

Speaker 11 (01:06:03):
Going very well? Just enjoying a nice winter day here
in Minnesota.

Speaker 1 (01:06:07):
I have a ten or twenty second Viiking question for you,
and then we'll move on to wrestling. Jason and I
long term well lifelong Viking fans and help season tickets
together for many years in the nineties and early two thousands,
Leslie Fraser. Should the Viking's extend his contract after these
two wins? Or should we let the Denver Broncos or
someone else sneak him ou from under us.

Speaker 11 (01:06:26):
Yeah, I'm all for I'm all for giving the job
to Fraser unless the Wilfs have like some you know,
superstar up their sleep, and even they do, I think
at this point you got to kind of ride it out.
I mean, granted, they haven't beat world beating teams, and
I think this is a real test form on Sunday
against the Giants, But like, I really like what I
see so far, and he's going to be a head

(01:06:47):
coach somewhere, so why not here?

Speaker 1 (01:06:49):
Your old colleague Bo Mitchell read his article over at
Fox Sportsnet. I don't know if you did too, but
talking about you know Bill Bill Cowers or Bill Parcells
or some you know, real big name maybe is you
know the Wolfs want to bring in because they they
want to have a superstar team, whether it's here or
in LA.

Speaker 11 (01:07:06):
Well, and they yeah, they want to have a superstar team.
And I think the big part of it is the
stadium issue. You know, they want to have they want
to have people excited about the team. They've had far
from the last couple of years, and I think this
is probably the last year really for real this time. Yeah,
I did do so, you know, I mean, it's who well,
you know, Peterson should sell people on the team, but

(01:07:27):
when you've had the highs that they've had over the
last couple of years, it's going to be hard. You know,
there's going to be kind of a hangover after that.
And so maybe maybe that is the thought processes they
need to bring in a big name just to kind
of keep the momentum going.

Speaker 1 (01:07:39):
It'll be interesting. I'd love to I'd love to have
a brand new stadium that the billionaire owners pay for
all themselves, but I don't think that's going to happen.

Speaker 11 (01:07:45):
I don't think she'll either.

Speaker 1 (01:07:47):
All Right, well, let's shift. Here's the wrestling. If you
want to get in line on the phone banks, we've
got two people on hold already. You can be third
if you jump right in the number six four six
seven two weights. That's six four six seven nine two weight.
We're gonna get the phone calls pretty quick here, and
then we'll sprinkle some conversation throughout the show, and then
Jason and I, as usual, we'll talk wrestling for fifteen

(01:08:07):
twenty minutes or so in the VIP after show for
our respective members at our website. That is only available
for members of Progressing dot net or pw Torch dot com.
Jason just quick thoughts on the John Cena angle last
night with Wade Barrett. Sina seems to have gotten the
upper hand on Barrett at the end of Raw. Was
it too soon to play that hand where Sina kind

(01:08:30):
of looks like he's got everything figured out and he's
in the power position.

Speaker 11 (01:08:33):
Yes, it's just all happened way too soon. We went
from a really good emotional storyline with John Cena where
it seemed like he was out to all of a
sudden he's just happy, go lucky again and it's you know,
from his standpoint, it seems like it's work, and the
live crowds are hotter for him than they have been
in a long time. Yeah, but I don't like what
it's doing for Nexus. I think they look as weak

(01:08:53):
as ever right now.

Speaker 1 (01:08:55):
Yes, I think that. I mean of a mixed thing.
I like what they're doing. My gut or my initial
instinct is is kind of your reaction. That's why that's
that question. It feels like it's happening too soon. I
kind of wonder if they didn't zoom past a couple
other chapters in the story because they felt it was dragging,
or maybe they're really excited to get somewhere else and

(01:09:16):
they kind of think, let's get there. We think that
it's important to get John Cena on this pay per
view or set up for the Royal Rumble in this position. So,
you know, my very tempered criticism because I did like
what I saw last night. I thought people played their
parts well, and like I just walked away thinking that
was good. Was it too soon? Did they play that
in too soon? I'll fully judge it when I kind

(01:09:36):
of see, Okay, where are we come, Royal Rumble hype time?
And was it necessary time wise for what they had
in mind to do it? If it just looks like
in three weeks they're lost because they have nothing else
to do on this, then it's like, you know, full
fledged criticism. But if the next you know, six weeks
play out, it's like, Okay, I get in retrospect why
they did it when they did it then, So I'm
I'm kind of tempered in my criticism. I think there's

(01:09:57):
things that are just sometimes totally dead wrong and other
things that I love this I'm not quite sure on yet.

Speaker 11 (01:10:02):
Yeah, And I'll throw this too as a possibility that
maybe Nexus looks weak right now and come this, you know,
sometime after the first of the year. Who's to say
Heel Hunter doesn't come back as their leader.

Speaker 6 (01:10:15):
Not.

Speaker 11 (01:10:15):
I think it's a long shot because all roads seem
to lead to Shamus versus Hunter. But you know, something
like that, something where they need to do something to
give Nexus some power back. And you know, I if
it wasn't for the new T shirts, I'd be wondering
if the group was about to go away.

Speaker 1 (01:10:31):
Well let's let's think, what if there's an interesting twist
and turn and let's play the scenariout that Triple Ah
comes back and instead of feuding with you know, the
King of Kings versus a king, the King of the Ring,
which is kind of yawn. I mean, I thought the
King of the Rings get I mean, it was well
done for what it was, but it's just not something
I want to I just it's very it's just cliched.
I feel like I've seen it before and that type
of thing. But that's another subject. If Triple Ah comes

(01:10:52):
back and he is involved in the Nexus and he
has a heel does that turn away bear at baby face? Like,
could you imagine this and going. I love Woyd Barrett.
He's great as a heel, but we need a strong
babyface and I think I want to get him turn quickly.
Let's have Triple AH come back and side with Otunga
and Gabriel. And then when I talk that out a

(01:11:13):
little bit, the only it doesn't seem like that's where
they're going. It seems like Otunga and Slater and Gabriel
they're the more sympathetic figures because Barrett's the one who's
been instigating it and ordering them around. So how do
you think Triple H would fit in a what scenario
DC playing out?

Speaker 11 (01:11:27):
Well? I mean he would be the leader of the faction, Barrett.
I think would become you know, one a basically, And
if you're going to turn someone, I don't think you'd
make it way Barrett. I think it would be shamous.
But you know, who's to say they can't bring Hunter back?
Let him have the program with Seamus and then do
the turn.

Speaker 1 (01:11:46):
That's true, No, No, they could. Wwe always tends to
move slower than I think we all anticipate they will.
I think Vince McMahon has a knack for taking something
that we think has six weeks or twelve weeks of
legs to get into four months, five months, and sometimes
it gets frustratingly long. Other times it's like, Okay, he's
patient and he didn't burn through things, and that kind

(01:12:07):
of makes sense.

Speaker 4 (01:12:08):
It is.

Speaker 1 (01:12:08):
It's my first reaction to Triple H being above Wade
Barrett is well, I don't know if that's good for Barrett.
Barrett's been such a strong leader. But Barrett is new,
and he's I think a strong enough He's shown a
strong enough personality and mic work that you could actually
the dynamic between Triple H and Barrett could actually be
pretty interesting and that it could lead down the line, however,

(01:12:30):
long down the line, to those two having history and
eventually feuding. And I think Barrett has already shown me
signs this year that he could hold his own with
Triple H in terms of looking like he belonged on
the stage with him.

Speaker 11 (01:12:41):
Yeah. Yeah, And you know, they don't have to just
cut the legs out from under Barrett right away. If
they want to, you know that they can do that
or make it seem like Huntry's doing that if they
want to go to that feud between them. But there's
no reason Bart can't be the guy, you know, getting
his He gets a stroke back with the rest of
the Nextius guys because he reveals it's been the guy
leading them all along. And like I say, he plays

(01:13:03):
kind of a one a role where he's not just
demoted to underling level.

Speaker 1 (01:13:07):
Yep. All right, Well, we can talk about a lot
of other things as the show progresses, but I'd like
to go right to the phone line a little earlier
than normal and try to get the callers involved, and
we will begin with aera code two to one to two.
Thanks for being the first caller. Please state your name
and where you're from.

Speaker 6 (01:13:23):
Hey wait, it's Ken from the city, New York City.

Speaker 1 (01:13:25):
Hey Ken, from the city. How's it going?

Speaker 6 (01:13:28):
A little Eastern Coast centric there by bad?

Speaker 1 (01:13:32):
Well, we call ourselves a twins. We actually call ourselves
the twin cities here in Minnesota and Minneapolis Saint Paul.
And if you don't live in this in the metro
area and you're from the outside and you drive into town,
you say we're going to the cities, we don't say
going to Minneapolis or Saint Paul. So when you said
from the city, I almost thought you were saying the
cities anyway, that was boring.

Speaker 6 (01:13:49):
Go ahead, Yeah, well I was a little just thought
last night it looks like it's going to be the
end of next although, like like he said before, those
new T shirts now doesn't seem that way. Yeah, although
do you think that maybe they're kind of going in
that like mini Nexus, like all like a second mid
tier Nexus, basically breaking away from Wade Barrett like what

(01:14:12):
seemed like last night, and away not necessarily aligning with
Sina as their leader, but just kind of having them
break away then really start that you know, tag team
push with Gabriel and Slater, maybe a tongue does some singles,
or maybe even you have McGillicuddy and Harris stay with
Barrett and then start a little few there just to

(01:14:33):
get them going with something.

Speaker 1 (01:14:35):
Jayson, what do you think could we have two Nexus
factions or is that too much nw OL Black and
White and NWL Red And.

Speaker 11 (01:14:42):
Yeah, the only way I could see that playing out
is if they really felt they needed a Nexus presence
on SmackDown, But I think you would risk watering it down,
so I say they should not do it. And as
far as you know, giving a couple of those guys
a tag team push. Gosh, is there even such a
thing as a tag team push anymore? It's just yeah,
the titles around them.

Speaker 1 (01:15:02):
They announce the three challengers last night Jason on raw
I was like, that's really the best we can do, huh?
I mean, what a sad taking division when it's a
comedy team of Sentino and Coslov that even seen him
makes fun of, well not even see that. I've seen
him makes fun of a lot of things. And the usos,
who you know, haven't really been firmly established as anything
other than a you know, a filler tag team act

(01:15:22):
who's a female companion is more involved in a comedy
act than anything have to do with their title aspirations.
I don't know, it just it just it's a weak
tag division.

Speaker 11 (01:15:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:15:30):
Now if they get if they commit to it, I
mean I think that's fine, you know, because there is
a way to get behind the take division and make
it matter and make it seem important. But it's you know,
if you say, next to breaks up and they want
to have a SmackDown presence, that means they're not feuding
with each other, which might be okay, you know, maybe
maybe O'tanga leads a few guys and says, we're just
going to go do our own thing on Smackdone for

(01:15:51):
a while. You do your thing here. We don't see
eye to eye. We share a lot of similar goals,
but they're just not room for the both of us,
you know, maybe something to that degree. And then they
cross paths later down the line, and I think that
would be a boost to smack Down, to have that brand,
the Nexus brand on on SmackDown, So I could maybe
see that working. But yeah, I don't. I don't Nexus
is I think Nexus is too over and there's too

(01:16:12):
many things they can do with it for them to
just end it. I like this storyline and that we
can sink our teeth into what we can talk like
this about it and speculate, but also kind of feel
like I feel like they have a decent idea of
where they're going for the next couple of months, And
I like when I get that sense because then it
makes me want to invest in try to guess where
they're going. Wait, Jason, go ahead, and then I'll go

(01:16:32):
back to Ken.

Speaker 11 (01:16:33):
I was just going to say, you did forget to
mention the fourth team that was in there, the Sexual
Sushi team, as They've been dubbed Mark Henry and the
Ocean tATu.

Speaker 1 (01:16:40):
Oh my god.

Speaker 11 (01:16:41):
Yeah, I can't take credit for that one. I don't
know who came up with it, but I love it.

Speaker 1 (01:16:44):
That is a good name. Okay, Ken, go ahead. That
was worth it do.

Speaker 6 (01:16:48):
I was just going to say, whatever, Well Tona gets
on the on the on the mic, I just crack up.
His voice is just not good on you know. I
just crack up when he talks, and I just don't
think that, you know. And he's like yelling at scene.
It sounds like he's crying. I mean, sorry, I Barrett,
Like last night just sounds like he's whining to him.

Speaker 1 (01:17:07):
Yeah, well I don't. I mean, I think he's acceptable.
But I mean, I know what you're saying. I'm not
sold on Otunga as a guy who could lead a
second faction, but I don't think he's a terrible choice.
Even though he doesn't have the greatest voice. He's no
way Barrett, but I think he shows some leadership skills.
I think he's been a good foil, not foil, but

(01:17:29):
kind of agitator for Barrett with a nexus. I mean,
I'd give him a I'd give him a B or
B plus for overall the role that he's played as
being the guy standing up to Barrett and kind of
because I mean, when we think of the original Nexus,
I mean then some of the people who aren't even
there anymore. You know, Otungua did have to rise above
a decent number of competitors to have the spot.

Speaker 6 (01:17:49):
Sure.

Speaker 1 (01:17:49):
Yeah, if you missed it earlier, just a reminder, we're
running our second VIP sale of the year. We don't
do these often. Take advantage of it now. It is
a limited time offer. Take nine dollars off a VIP
subscription a one month, three month, or one year sub
It brings the one month sub down to just three
dollars in ninety nine cents. The coupon code is n
o V twenty twenty five as in November n o

(01:18:10):
V twenty twenty five, and that takes nine dollars off.
When you check out on our sign up form pw
torch dot com slash Go v IP gives you full
details on membership benefits and links to our sign up form.
Why anything else, Ken, Yeah, I guess just the quick.

Speaker 6 (01:18:28):
I guess quick for me, but maybe answer very long.
I'll get off the line and I listen and I
listen afterwards. But that guy that came out of Tyson
Kid last night, you know, and I know there's some
internet stuff about him, but I guess a more broad
question than is like how they would decide, you know,
bringing him in to live TV where as opposed to

(01:18:50):
let's say, sending him on next to develop and next
to develop, you know, why have him how? Like kind
of just two part question. One if you can go, guys,
get into like how they side who to push that
way versus the other way? And also just a little
you guys know a little bit about him.

Speaker 1 (01:19:08):
That's a really good question, a good topic to talk about.
Thanks Ken for your call. Yeah, Jason, And I don't
think because NXT exists, that all talent will filter through
NXT before it makes it on TV. And I don't
think every wrestler who debuts on TV should have a
vignette introducing them either. You know, we don't need to
go through six weeks of Alberto del Real skits to
introduce everybody. I think a wide variety of ways to

(01:19:29):
bring somebody in makes sense. And I think they felt
like he was ready for working some house shows, which
he's done and doing a bodyguard role, but maybe not
full fledged matches yet, but get him introduced on television
and get him some experience at house shows. He's a
big guy, he's got a good look. I mean, it
seems like he's the type of person that Vincent Madn
would want to give a chance to. But he probably

(01:19:50):
probably in vincmic Man's eyes and ww management size fits
the role of being being a bodyguard type guy right now,
rather than going through the obstacle course that is an
XT and really being off the radar four months. If
you're going to be on NXT, your thought stasen.

Speaker 6 (01:20:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 11 (01:20:06):
I think we saw with the season four castitial debut
tonight that they're not going to dedicate a lot of known,
even internet wise talent to that show. Some of their
real prospects, like a Richie Steamboat Tyler Black people thought
were going to be on that show and it didn't happen.
And I think that's just because they know. I mean,
if you watch the show, it's obvious they know people

(01:20:28):
aren't watching. They're making fun of people for watching, and
so why would you want to introduce, you know, a
real prospect that way. As far as Jackson Andrews goes,
he's just you know, he's Kevin Nash twenty ten, you know,
with I think an even greener Kevin Nash. Or at
this point, I don't think he has a in the
There's just something about him facially that just didn't connect.

(01:20:50):
It was like, yeah, I can see why you put
him in this role because he you know, he's a giant,
but there's he didn't seem to have that hit factor.
Like when Kevin Nash showed up, he looked the part
this guy, I mean body wise he had in the
face not so much. But uh, I think it says
a lot about I think it bodes well for Tyson
Kidd that they cared enough about him to add this

(01:21:12):
element to his act.

Speaker 1 (01:21:13):
I did too. I like that because kid is talented,
but he does absolutely need something extra to avoid becoming
JTG or Scotty Scotty too high you know there. You know,
there's got to be something that takes him to that that.
So this this was to me a sign of an
endorsement for Tyson Kid. I thought, I thought Jackson a
little bit more than you're than you're giving him facially
and look wise, I mean I like him better than

(01:21:35):
say Lance Hoyd or even test Andrew Martin. When it
comes to that, look, I think there's I mean, it's
not Kevin Ash. Kevin Nash. For all the criticism of
who of Nash over the years, for a wide variety
of reasons behind the scenes and on Cameron in the Ring,
Nash had that in factor. I mean, Nash was the
guy kind of like thee on punk has become or
you could put him on color commentary and you're you know,
you know, he's gonna you're gonna want to listen because

(01:21:57):
he's gonna say something good or bad. It's gonna be inter.
He had leadership skills, he had chrisma, he had leadership
qualities behind the scenes, and he's super smart. I mean, like,
for whatever criticism Nash has or Nash deserves for his booking,
he's a super smart, plugged in guy. I have no
idea about about Jackson Anders being like that, like a
CM punk typer Kevin Ash type who you put them

(01:22:19):
behind a microphone and you're not scared he's just going
to go, you know, just sound stupid or stammer. So
I'm not I don't know enough to be sold on him,
but I was a little more impressed with you, Jason
in terms of the ed factor. Again, I'm not saying
he's the next big thing, but I liked him a
little bit more than I think you're expressing.

Speaker 11 (01:22:36):
Yeah, it was just, you know, first impression kind of thing.
And I know this guy's going to go on to
be the greatest WWE champion in history.

Speaker 1 (01:22:42):
Will see absolutely. I do want to throw a note
out if you haven't been to PW torch today, either
our website pw torch dot com or one of our apps.
We just put up a post, and we don't do
this very often. Every couple of years at most. We're
inviting people who want to volunteer for the site to
write to us. We're going to open up some slots.
We want to expand the specialist section with some ideas

(01:23:04):
some have dropped off when some writers have had nice
long runs with us but then left due to a
variety of reasons, and some new feature ideas. We'll also
want to get a little bit more going in terms
of post raw and post SmackDown type coverage, alternate perspectives
and that type of thing. So we posted some ideas
and some instructions in that type of thing. If you're
interested in volunteering for PW Torch, encourage you to check

(01:23:25):
out the posts at the top of the main listing
on the app or on the website right now and
and drop us an email. We've already in the last
few hours gotten a lot of people sending an emails.
Won't be able to reply to everyone or add everyone
to the writing team, but we definitely want to get
a nice expansion of the staff going headed into twenty eleven,
so please do check that out if that interest you.
We don't do this every couple months, so this is

(01:23:47):
a rare chance to kind of join the team.

Speaker 11 (01:23:49):
Will I will trade you Rich Quilling for Pat McNeil
and two writers to be named later.

Speaker 1 (01:23:54):
That'd be kind of interesting anyway. Yeah, I'll get myself
in trouble if I if I try to make a joke,
because they're both good. They're both good people, all right.
Let's although one of them is very very sensitive to criticism,
and I won't say who.

Speaker 11 (01:24:10):
You must be referring to the one of the two
writers should be named later of course.

Speaker 1 (01:24:14):
Yeah, there we go, all right, Erico nine one seven,
Thanks for holding. Please state you name and where you're from.

Speaker 8 (01:24:20):
Hey, guys, Joe from Queens. How you doing today?

Speaker 1 (01:24:23):
Good Joe from just outside the city or are you
actually in the city.

Speaker 8 (01:24:27):
Yeah, I'm in Queens. So it's a borough of Manhattan. Yeah,
probably like fifteen minutes away from the by train I've
driven through. Yeah. Yeah, congratl the Vikings being my bills yesterday.
If you if you want the cure to your defensive
woes as far as your defensive lines, just go go
against our offensive line that head like ir of injuries
and journeyman plane. So I congrat I was.

Speaker 1 (01:24:50):
I was kind of I'm not glad to see Brett
Farber get hurt, but I'm glad that if he was
going to get hurt and we were gonna win, it
happened early in the game. So we've got a pretty
good look at Tavars Jackson. I you know, Jason, I
know I'm going off topic, but you saw some of
the flaws in Tavars. But I was, I was pretty
okay with what I saw. But I don't have a
super sophisticated football I mean, I'm just a fan. What
do you think.

Speaker 11 (01:25:08):
Yeah, he's playing against the secondary that was really good
last year and not so good this year, he still
threw that same pass that he threw in the playoff
game against the Eagles that was housed by the Eagles
and was housed again by the Bills. If he can,
it's just some of those mistakes that by this point
in his career he shouldn't be making. It was kind
of alarming to see him still make that mistake, and

(01:25:30):
to everyone out there who's going, oh, they should have
been playing Jackson before this. They asked him after the
game if he thinks he did enough to take over
the starting job, and he said he didn't play very well.
So I think Test speaks volumes.

Speaker 1 (01:25:40):
I'm glad he said that, though, Yeah, absolutely, because because
I saw I mean, I think we saw enough glimpses
of what made him intriguing to the coaching staff originally
and why they've kept him around. I mean, he's going
to be a backup in this league for years. Probably.
It's not a starter. You know, it's not like he's
just gonna go away. There's enough there that that's intriguing.
But anyway, this boring people who don't care about the Bikings.

Speaker 8 (01:26:00):
Go go ahead, Okay, no problem. Actually I thought that's
how the game's turned when he injured far because I
was hoping he was gonna throw.

Speaker 1 (01:26:07):
Like six more pins.

Speaker 8 (01:26:08):
So that's what Good pointed. But yeah, I have a
couple of questions. Uh, First, Seamus.

Speaker 2 (01:26:15):
I like Seamus.

Speaker 8 (01:26:15):
I think he's a great wrestler. I've really been impressed
with them over the last you know, a year or so,
like they've done a great job with him, and you know,
I was definitely one of those people who thought, you know,
they're being a push for the triple Ah's friend or whatever,
but he's deserved. However, what the hell was with that
outfit he was wearing. I don't know, that was like
a rib He looked like a sorceress or a warlock

(01:26:36):
or a guy from uh from More of the Rings
Part five.

Speaker 4 (01:26:41):
He just looked terrible.

Speaker 8 (01:26:42):
And I don't know, like, what was the taking on that.
You guys say it was like a rib. I mean,
he just looked terrible.

Speaker 1 (01:26:47):
I don't think they should be ribbing one of their top,
you know, relatively young prospects to to you know, be
one of the core top tier guys for the next
ten years. You shouldn't be ribbing Humber making them look bad.
I touched on it earlier, Jason, the outfit, the whole stick.
It's just not I don't know, it's just not my thing.
I don't I was just bored the second he walked

(01:27:08):
out and started talking in the royal you know that,
all that language about I don't know it just I
just if I was. If I wasn't my job and
I had at DVR, I would have sped right past
that segment. What do you think?

Speaker 11 (01:27:20):
Yeah, I wouldn't have gone that far because I was
just so shocked by the outfit that I don't think
I put him fast forward. But it was not. Yeah,
I thought maybe the King thing would Their idea was
that it would enhance his character a little bit. It's unnecessary.
The guy was doing just fine without it.

Speaker 2 (01:27:35):
I had.

Speaker 11 (01:27:36):
This is pure speculation, but maybe Vince watched some movie
about Ireland and the high Kings and thought that was
a cool look, because we all know how much he
loves his Irish heritage.

Speaker 1 (01:27:47):
Yeah, I don't know if that didn't takes time out
to watch movies, but yeah, if it was, it would
be about the Irish. That's true. This does give Vince
a chance to have shamous, to be a surrogate to
talk about, you know, the great history of Ireland.

Speaker 11 (01:27:58):
So funny story about that court Bound where former WWE
writer was telling me not too long ago, but there
was a I think it was a was it a
Clint Eastwood movie that or John Wayne actually one of
the one of the two, one of the old western
guys that did some Irish movie, you know, set in Ireland,
and Vince saw it and was so gung home about it.

(01:28:20):
He came in and it was like required viewing one day.
Basically everyone should go home and watch this and blah
blah blah. And unfortunately Vince has a horrible memory and
I don't think it ever came up again.

Speaker 1 (01:28:30):
Oh my gosh, that's that's pretty funny, actually, Joe, anything
else for.

Speaker 8 (01:28:36):
I have actually a ten question regarding what happened this
weekend with Jeff Hardy. It seems like I can already
like see, like you know, three or four years from now,
like WW is gonna like put out a DVD about
the Hardy Boys and Holly crashed and and like burned,
Like what is going on with them? As far as
you know? With Jeff, like you is he like what

(01:28:58):
have you guys for? I mean, I've writed a little bit.
I'm both your side spot in like was he drunk
or was he exhausted? But it just seems like from
going back to even two weeks ago when he had
that stupid video when he looked like he was trashed,
you know, when he was totally you know, jumping on
seeing punk. You know, it looks like he's just going
back to what he was, like, yeah, thousin two or
two thousand three or whatever. And I just want to
know where you have you guys heard Have they just

(01:29:19):
pretty much in TENA are like, Hey, we love Jeff.
Jeff can do whatever he wants because you know, he
was a fan favorite. Get trashed on us, you know, yeh,
have you guys heard anything you're looking at?

Speaker 1 (01:29:29):
Yeah, it's it's it's I mean it's sad watch watching this.

Speaker 4 (01:29:31):
I mean.

Speaker 1 (01:29:34):
There's there's I don't think there's any retraction necessary. Jeff
showed up looking like it was in no condition to work,
you know, and and and the fact that he's able
to you know, sleep it off and end up you know,
performing and getting through the matches a real testament to
Jeff Hardy's incredible natural ability and and to a degree
really how wasted it it has been in certain ways,

(01:29:54):
even though he's had some good hot runs in w
W and drew money for them. I know Jason to
about this a little bit. I'll time back in a minute.

Speaker 11 (01:30:01):
Yeah, there's no retraction issue whatsoever. People who were backstage
saw him looking just on, you know, pale as could be,
and handshaking. You know, I've spoken with enough people about
this that I you know, it's it's pretty obvious what
the situation was, and I think that you would be

(01:30:24):
seeing a lot more denials coming out of T and
A right now, granted that you know, the pipe organs
or Oh, it's all one big misunderstanding. So was Matt
Hardy not being able to submit a urine sample, and
so is Matt Hardy taking cold medication backstage, So is
Jef Hardy's legal case, and the list goes on and
on and on, and you know, and Matt especially likes

(01:30:44):
to take it as oh, the Internet's out to get me.
It's not that way, you know. It's just at some point,
how many misunderstandings can people have. It reminds me the
only person who's come close to this level of misunderstandings
in his career is Kurt Angle when he was had
the mouthful pills when the police showed up at his
door for the dui, they turned out to be one
big misunderstanding, and you know there they were going to

(01:31:07):
switch the match. At one point they made the decision
they were not going to go with that match. They
had that three way match that was going to take
its place, and then you know, Hardy ended up having
a meeting with them and I'm convincing that he was
good to go, so they put that match back in place.

Speaker 1 (01:31:23):
You can imagine the pitch Jeff Hardy gave them to,
Oh I've been I mean, you can just you know,
you can do a Saturday Life parody of it. You'd
be like, oh, no, I've been wasted like this every
day in my life last twenty years, and I just
give me two hours to that. But I'll be able
to perform for ten minutes and then I'll pets on
the back again. I can just see SNL if Jeff
was famous enough doing a total spoof on what happened backstage.

Speaker 18 (01:31:42):
Well totally.

Speaker 2 (01:31:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 11 (01:31:43):
It's a sentence situation because you know, and I do
ask people once in a while, and knows how's Jeff
these days? And I ask a variety of people just
so it's not coming from one person, and I tend
to hear the same thing, which is kind of a
mixed bag, some good days, some bad days. And you know,
I don't know when that infamous diner scene was shot
where he was just out of his mind. I don't

(01:32:05):
know what kind of caffine they have in those dispensers there,
But so that one may have been a while back.
I mean, it's obviously semi reason, but I don't know
that it was like film the week of or anything
like that. But you know, there was definitely something going
on on Sunday. And you know, people that I know
within that company that would be the first to reach
out to me and and try to put the spin

(01:32:27):
out there if they could gen't even bothered this time.

Speaker 1 (01:32:29):
Yeah, yeah, I agree. I mean, we're not getting text
from T and A and so we know we don't
really we don't answer to them and put out, you know,
pr spin minutes after an unfortunate story gets out that
they don't want out. Yeah, So it's it is, you know,
I mean, it is what it is. I mean, there's
a reason Jeff Hardy's not WWE right now. I don't

(01:32:50):
think on a related subject, I don't think this is
a great week for Shane Helms to be ripping on
Shawn Michaels, you know, for just thrinkers. I don't mean
that Shane Helms has to be tied indelibly to the Hardys,
but when they're kind of your running budies over the
years and you're ripping on John Michaels for X Y
and Z and the Hardys are you know, have become
kind of embarrassments and jokes in various in various sad ways.

(01:33:11):
It's just I don't know, it's it's probably not the
best week to start throwing throwing darts at somebody else.

Speaker 2 (01:33:17):
You know.

Speaker 11 (01:33:18):
In his defense, I believe he did this last week
is when it started in the.

Speaker 1 (01:33:22):
Ma's been making a fool himself on the internet for months.
But okay, no, fairly put you're right, You're right.

Speaker 19 (01:33:34):
I'm Kelly Wells, host of the seven Star podcast, the
new Ongoing Torch show covering the world of New Japan
pro wrestling. We'll drop new episodes as major shows and
noteworthy events dictate, And I'm Chris Lansdell join us as
we covered the ever changing landscape of New Japan as
they navigate an era with no.

Speaker 7 (01:33:52):
Lack of talent.

Speaker 4 (01:33:53):
But I really need to create some news staves.

Speaker 2 (01:33:56):
You can stream the new seven Stop podcasts now from
Pro Wrestling Talk.

Speaker 1 (01:34:11):
Okay, well, hey Joe, anything else?

Speaker 2 (01:34:14):
Uh?

Speaker 8 (01:34:14):
Yeah, real quick. I just I just wanted to just
follow up with the TNA thing with with Hardy. You
have to wonder too, if they're just giving him more rope,
you know, to hang him stuff out. I'm thinking of
that as this company being like you know, with the
Scott Halls, who have been given chance after chance. You know,
if this was WWE, you know, Hardy would have been
out the door like he already is pretty much. And
like I'm wondering if they're doing the same thing. And

(01:34:34):
the last question, I'll hang up and you guys can
cause other calls. Samoa Joe is he do you guys
see him leaving? Jumpy? I heard I've read his contract
is up. I guess this week or I don't know
if he signed something. But don't you think he should
like leave TNA and go to w W the way
w W he's been pushing younger stars a hell of
a lot better than most TNA has done. I mean
he's jobbing his job in the Jeff Jared on pay

(01:34:56):
per views, you know, with this mix with you know MMA,
so they could set up Jared angle or whatever. And
you know, I don't know what the hell can happen
with Joe, but yeah, wow and tired of it.

Speaker 1 (01:35:05):
No, it's an interesting topic, Joe Jason, let me get
your thoughts on that. Samo, Joe, what do you know
about his contract status and where do you think you
should end up with the other choice.

Speaker 11 (01:35:14):
Pw insider dot com reported that his contract actually expired
on Sunday. I haven't been able to verify that, not
disputing it or anything, but I last week I was
hearing it was January February. Someone wasn't sure, but yeah,
I mean, I do believe the contract is up, and
I don't know that there's interest from WWE, which surprises

(01:35:35):
me when you do see you know, seam punks got
as much stroke now as he's ever had in that company.
You think he'd be able to talk get him in
the door. And they've had success with Daniel Bryan and others.

Speaker 1 (01:35:43):
So well, and Joe going back with Sina.

Speaker 11 (01:35:46):
Yeah, I'd love to see him there. But for all
we know, this is a decision by Joe where he
just enjoys the TNA schedule and some of the other
recreational issues he's able to enjoy that he couldn't in WWE.

Speaker 8 (01:35:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:35:59):
Yeah, there there is more time for yourself when you
work for TNA then when you're in WWE. There's a
much stricter code of a code of conduct and in
a schedule you got to keep that's tough to keep
up on. And Joe, you know, he's I mean from
a personal standpoint too. I mean he's close with his
with his family, and he's got a lot of things
that he likes to do. Maybe he hears about that
schedule from his buddies in WWE and thinks, sah, I

(01:36:22):
just want to make a good living in TNA and
and not beat up my body too much and get
to do what I want when I want to on
many more off weekends and off days, and then also
just book himself for indie shows whenever he wants.

Speaker 2 (01:36:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 11 (01:36:32):
Fairly new father too, you know, I think. Yeah, in
the last year they had their baby, and so that
might be a factor as well. I kind of see
it as a crucial time for Joe, you know if
he Yeah, granted, a lot of guys really don't in
WWE in past years haven't been getting that big push
and tilled her in their thirties, but the Tide teams
to have turned a little bit and this just seems

(01:36:54):
like a real prime opportunity for Joe.

Speaker 1 (01:36:56):
Yeah. I mean, I don't I'm not. I'm not convince
WWE wouldn't find a way to get a lot out
of Joe. And I think part of the reason what
you said, Jason, he's got some friends in high places
now who have established themselves and would put in good
word for him, and he and seen and go back
to you to California and training together. You know, I
don't know how super close they are right now, but
I know a little while back that there was a

(01:37:18):
relationship there, and so you know, who knows. But anyway,
we got a lot of people on hold, and we've
only taken two calls on the first half of the show,
but we've got some really good questions of topics that
we've gone in depth on. Do you want to remind
people you are listening to the pw Torch Live Cast.
I'm host Wade Keller, joined today by Jason Powell of
Pro Wrestling dot Net. Jason, I saw today that your
free podcast, which we don't talk much about, is ranked

(01:37:39):
really highly in iTunes, so there's a lot of interest
in what's going on. You're at number one hundred thirty
one right now on their top two hundred list, and
so we don't we plug your site, but you also
do have a free podcast that you update a couple times,
two three times a month. So if people want to
hear more of Jason, go to iTunes and do a
search for Pro Wrestling dot Net.

Speaker 11 (01:37:56):
And those will definitely become a little more frequent. After
the first of the year, I've like, I got to
admit I've slacked on those, and uh, you know, if
you're into audio, there is a ton of it on
the dot net members side.

Speaker 4 (01:38:06):
Right now.

Speaker 11 (01:38:07):
We're reviewing each and every show, with the exception of
one or two here and there, but Raw and Now
smack Down with Chris Shore taking over. Chris Shore is
having a really good time with that audio. It's turned
out to be a lot of fun and the the
best way to sign up head over to Pro Wrestling
dot Net. Look right in the middle of the page
you'll see the sign up section, and for as little
as five dollars and fifty cents a month, you will
have access to all the dot net audio passed and present,

(01:38:30):
as well as access to the members forum where you
can correspond with the other members, and the first look
at dot net news as.

Speaker 1 (01:38:37):
Well breaking news from Jason Powell. Do you hear there's
news going on and you want to confirm, go to
Crossing dot net. All right, let's go back to the
phone line. It's got a lot of people on hold.
Our number is six four six seven nine two eight
six four six seven nine two eight. We've got seven
people on hold, so if anybody is thinking of calling up,

(01:38:57):
you're going to have to be kind of patient. All right,
let's go to h code seven zero eight. Thanks for holding.
Clese states. Your name and where you're.

Speaker 5 (01:39:02):
From is Johnson, Chicago.

Speaker 1 (01:39:06):
Hey John, good for me. What's on your mind today?

Speaker 3 (01:39:09):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (01:39:09):
I was wondering with the Mizzy already cash and the
money of the bank, where's the reason that he's still
carrying around the brief case?

Speaker 1 (01:39:18):
I was Chris, you know that didn't even strike me
Jason just as a weapon or why would he That's
a good point.

Speaker 11 (01:39:24):
Yeah, that would be my guest. I thought the same
thing last I'm like, wait, why is Alex Riley holding that?
But maybe it's a weapon. We'd think that with the
new look of Alex Riley where he's wearing a little
more expensive gear and all that he could get her
real briefcase.

Speaker 1 (01:39:38):
Yeah, I'm that's a question. Actually the announcer should be asking,
but they're too busy talking about themselves. But they've been entertaining.
But yeah, anyway, if we don't in the live catch Jason,
what we'll talk more about last night spron the VIP
after showing also a lot more on Lawler Cole and
how that situation was handled last night, John, anything else
for us? I wish we had a really good answer

(01:39:59):
for you, But I'm just thinking they want to have
it as a weapon and maybe it'll start storing some
foreign objects in there.

Speaker 5 (01:40:06):
Yeah, what Josh Mesh does? Is there any chance that
he might take hold with Michael Cole now? Or you
think that's just so one nice one and gun type thing.

Speaker 1 (01:40:15):
Yeah, it's an interesting topic. I think the coal situation
is fluid. I don't think we've seen where the final
place where they're going to go. I think Michael Cole
will be back next week. I think they did a
decent enough job giving Lawler just enough revenge where you
could imagine Coal Lawler being willing to work with Cole
again next week because Lawler basically shoved shoved Coal into

(01:40:40):
an RKO. I'd love to have them sell it one
more week and say Michael Cole has an eck injury
from the RKO and still can't be here and milk
it a little bit longer. But my suspicion is he'll
be back next week announcing, and I don't know long
term with Coal, I'm still intrigued by that.

Speaker 11 (01:40:53):
Jason, Yeah, I think he'll be back tonight on NXT announcing.
I'm with you, you.

Speaker 1 (01:40:58):
Should wear a neck brace for the next few months though.

Speaker 3 (01:41:00):
Yeah, that'd be great.

Speaker 11 (01:41:02):
You know, he really he showed something and I know
we're talking about that in the after show, but he
did a really nice job with that promo last night.
I thought Josh Matthews was fine. He's no Jim Ross,
but either is Michael Cole. It's just I think the
dynamic was better. Punk was able to be the heel
and you know, those two Lawler and Matthews were kind
of able to play it straight and it just it

(01:41:23):
flowed better.

Speaker 1 (01:41:24):
I've always been a fan of Josh Matthews announcing. I'm
not you know, it's so cliche, but it's so damn true.
He's no Jim Ross.

Speaker 4 (01:41:32):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:41:32):
Ross is just so good at what he does. Matthews
doesn't know the pipes for it, he doesn't have the experience,
but he's good. You know, he's a good He knows
what he needs to do out there for the most part,
and I think he's somebody who would learn and get better.
And he's been around to wise, He's got a lot
of experience. You know, he was a tough enough candidate.
He's taken some bumps. He's got the respect of the
wrestlers in that respect too. I think he's good enough

(01:41:52):
to be the host of RAW, you know. And frankly,
when you think about it, the announcer's role isn't as
important as it used to be. I think it's still
idle to selling a pay per view when you're doing
the big angle at the end of the show. I mean,
I think the announcer what the announcer does is still
one of the keys to selling pay per reviews, and
I think Jim Ross being off of Raw is a
contributing reason that's worth mentioning to the decline in WWE
pay per view by rates. I think people got excited

(01:42:15):
when they heard Jim Ross call big Angles more than
when Michael Cole does. But it's not like the announcers
are calling the are on the air for seventy percent
of the time. Now there's a lot more a lot
less wrestling where they're calling moves and that type of thing,
and a lot more long interviews and segments and that
type of thing. So I think Josh is adequate for
that job at the minimum and may be pretty good

(01:42:37):
with room for improvement. John, thanks for call. We're just
going to keep moving through cause I got so many
people on hold and I feel bad taking so long
to get through Callegs. But thanks for calling. Please call
it a Skain later in the week to hear some new
voices on the show. Let's go to Aeric Code seven
oh two. Thanks for calling. Please state your name and
where you're from.

Speaker 20 (01:42:51):
Hey, this has been from Penn State.

Speaker 1 (01:42:53):
Hey Ben, what's on your mind?

Speaker 8 (01:42:54):
Today.

Speaker 20 (01:42:56):
Hey, I'm actually training to be a professional wrestler. And
so my question is, in three or so years, what
do you think the landscape of the professional wrestling business
will be, both on the side of the professional wrestlers
trying to get into the business and audience members who
are watching.

Speaker 1 (01:43:15):
Jason, what do you think?

Speaker 11 (01:43:17):
A good question. I think that I don't see it
changing dramatically. I don't see another boom period coming. It's
a little bit alarming when you see what's going on
with T and A. I don't sense a big swell
of interest right now in Ring of Honor or dragon Gate.
That's also a bit alarming. And you know, I don't
you know dragon Gate will see. I think ROH is

(01:43:39):
probably on more secure ground right now, but we don't
know for sure, So you know, I don't know, And
there's always a possibility that somebody starts up another promotion
we heard about, you know, the all the rumors about
the Florida group that never came to fruition. But it's
it's I guess the one thing working to your advantage
probably is the popular already of MMA. You're not going

(01:44:01):
to have as much competition as I think you would
have safe even five years ago.

Speaker 1 (01:44:06):
Yeah, I mean the Florida group would be nice. I
talked to somebody who was hopeful for that group a
few days ago and and just said, you know that,
you know a lot of the promises and timelines haven't
taken place, but it's not considered a dead issue. There's
still some hope for that. I thought it was really interesting,
just kind of an X factor to throw in. Ben
is FX getting involved in MMA. And I'm not sure
if I talked about it here or on a Vip

(01:44:28):
Keller hountline in the last week, but FX bringing a
board Bellator Fighting Championship, which is one of the you know,
one of the two groups that runs you know, regular
shows on national television. They're usually on Fox Sports Net
other than USC. For FX to bring to bring Bellator
on to me, says, FX is following up on their
desire to get into the sports business. They've they've they've

(01:44:51):
talked about how they want to bring in they want
to bring people to their shows they're either syndicated shows
or their original programming by getting some sports and I
think it's in breaking in the sense that you know,
Spike TV's had some success with Wrestling and USC and
at both WWE for a while, and then when they
left TNA. I wonder if that doesn't open up a
little crack in maybe FX saying, you know, the right

(01:45:14):
type of wrestling product, one that we could be proud
of that fits some of the higher brow programming or
you know, more critical acclaimed program that we have. If
it doesn't, if it seems like something we could be
proud to have, I wonder if that door couldn't be
open with the right presentation. That's a possibility. It's it's tough,
you know, WWE looking at the way that their feeder
system works. Now they've really done some they've made some steps,

(01:45:35):
but to get to WWE, it just seems like the
best chance you're gonna have is by far as going
through their feeder system. That's not to say there isn't
a route by making it an aim for yourself like
Tyler Black or Daniel Bryan on the indie scene. Obviously
that's still a wait, that's still a path to go.
But and then they might grab you for developmental after that.
So yeah, I mean, it's it's unpredictable ire where one

(01:45:59):
or two breakouts stars away from from in some good
storylines away from a good surgeon interest. And there's always
a possibility that you know a lot of people who
have turned to MMA for a while for whatever reason,
when the right storyline or the right presentation clicks, will
come back to wrestling or find wrestling a fun alternative,
And it's a matter of a pro wrestling promoter finding

(01:46:19):
a way to appeal to that to that demographic and
not just be trying to bring people back who are
watching back in the late nineties. Those people are aging
out in multiple ways right now.

Speaker 11 (01:46:28):
Wait, would you say that the odds of it getting
worse for wrestling are stronger than it getting better over
the next few years. I just look at the TNA situation,
you know, during the Ultimate Ultimate Fighter finale on Saturday night,
I'm seeing i think three different Spike TV shows advertised
repeatedly and not a single mention of TNA. It's just

(01:46:48):
kind of not just because of that, but because of
their ratings. It really does make you wonder what kind
of ground they're on with that network right now.

Speaker 1 (01:46:55):
I agree. One of the TV network sources that I
talk to just says that not that he's heard that
Spike is losing interest in TNA, but that from from
a TV analyst standpoint, it is clear that what that
a year ago there was a lot more hope for
within Spike TV for where they would be, and and

(01:47:15):
that this has been that they've lost ground in the
last year despite spending a lot of money. Jason, I've
heard this over the years, but maybe you've heard more recently.
Did Spike TV contribute to some of the salaries as
the big name wrestlers, because I know Spike is is
kind of more is in some cases to blame for
some of the big name talent decisions, because as one
person told me, the people at Spike TV don't know

(01:47:36):
anything about wrestling, but they when they recognize the name
of a wrestler, they mark out and want and want
TNA to push them, not really realizing that you know,
that's counterproductive and you know, is it really the way
for TEENA to build an audience? Have you heard of
Spike had much financially to contribute to some of the
big salaries.

Speaker 11 (01:47:51):
Yeah, I've heard that. You know, it was not one
confirmed by Spike or anything like that, but I certainly
heard Guys like Mike Foley is one that comes to mind.
Perhaps staying Kerdan Angle may have been in that mix.
It's some of the bigger name sames of getting from WWE.

Speaker 1 (01:48:05):
Yeah, but I think what you observed about Ultimate Fight
Night and the advertising and the cross promotion on Spike,
it shows that there's a little bit of a cooling
off on TNA and it's and we always look at
the overall rating and it's it's. I still think it's
the best way to track interest in the product from
the from the chair that we put in. But from
an analysi's standpoint of value to DNA or I'm sorry

(01:48:28):
value that teena's value to Spike. It is the demographics
that matter, and Spike cares about that twenty five to
forty nine or twenty five to fifty four demographic a lot,
and they've seen some declines. Their TEENA has grown surprisingly
somewhat in the teen audience. On some weeks they spiked
in that category, but the demographically speaking, they're even weaker

(01:48:48):
than a year ago. I wonder if the bluemos off
the rolls a little bit for Spike, especially because they're
finding some success with other shows. Bended we answer your
question adequately, Yeah, okay, great, Well, Hey, good luck with
your career. Stay in touch with us, let us know
how goes. All right, No, well great, Thanks a lot
for calling if you missed it earlier. Just a reminder,

(01:49:09):
we're running our second VIP sale of the year. We
don't do these often. Take advantage of it now. It
is a limited time offer. Take nine dollars off a
VIP subscription a one month, three month or one year
sub It brings the one month sub down to just
three dollars in ninety nine cents. The coupon code is
n O V twenty twenty five as in November Nov
twenty twenty five, and that takes nine dollars off When

(01:49:31):
you check out on our sign up form pw torch
dot com slash go VIP gives you full details on
membership benefits and links to our sign up form. All right,
let's go to our next call here on the live cast,
let's go to AERSO seven seven two. Thanks for calling.

Speaker 21 (01:49:47):
My wait, my name is Skiovanni and.

Speaker 8 (01:49:49):
I'm from Florida.

Speaker 1 (01:49:50):
You know, I'm sorry I didn't catch your first name.

Speaker 21 (01:49:52):
Oh, it's Ciovanni and I'm from Florida.

Speaker 1 (01:49:54):
Oh. Great, thanks for calling to you, Bonnie.

Speaker 21 (01:49:57):
First of all, I just try and keep a real brief.
He can get to all the callers. But I always
look forward to Tuesday's show because I think Jason Powell
is the best wing man out of everybody throughout the week,
way better than Bruce Mitchel.

Speaker 6 (01:50:08):
Uh.

Speaker 21 (01:50:09):
Probably do always look for Tuesday show. So great job, Jason.
I'm definitely gonna look for that podcast on iTunes.

Speaker 11 (01:50:15):
I'd love you.

Speaker 21 (01:50:19):
There's some funny things on us here real quick. I
think you're going to kick out of it. But I
think that what's in the money in the bank briefcase
at this point, as a ri Is told him every week,
that's where he keeps his jello shots. That's why he's
got it.

Speaker 1 (01:50:29):
All right, And so heym punk is listening to us
on his iPhone. You can use that on Monday's for
off you want.

Speaker 4 (01:50:37):
I'm gonna use on Monday.

Speaker 21 (01:50:38):
But also, uh yeah, you know, uh king Seamus, that's
what I want to talk about tonight.

Speaker 2 (01:50:43):
Uh Seamus.

Speaker 21 (01:50:45):
Uh, you know, I thought, I thought, I really thought
that he looked immaculate last night. You know, he looked
like one of the Irish kings of old You know,
when I thought that John Morrison was really out of
line when he didn't get down on his hands and
knees like the peasant that he is.

Speaker 6 (01:50:59):
You know.

Speaker 21 (01:51:00):
Now they don't worship King Seamus, you know, but in
all seriousness, you know, the King of the Ring could
have been used to elevate, you know, someone who is
on the cusp of being in the main event, you know,
like someone like Daniel Bryan or even John Morrison. But
you know, Shamus, out of the eight guys that were
in the tournament, he's the only one who has been
a world champion in WWE, you know, and he didn't

(01:51:21):
beat the Miz to win the title, you know, he
beat John Cena both of those times. I mean, I
think he's already fully credible.

Speaker 3 (01:51:28):
You know.

Speaker 21 (01:51:28):
I think they could have used it to elevate someone else.
But I think what it boils down to is they
need to make Seamus look strong again. I mean, he's
lost to Santino Morella even though he was under suspicious circumstances,
and he lost to John Morrison at the Survivor Series,
and he needs to look strong. And the reason being
is because when Triple H comes back, he needs to
have a strong opponent with a strong storyline that he

(01:51:50):
already has with Seamus. It's all about catering to Triple
H in my opinion, you know, And I think that
when Nexus attacked the Undertaker in the Buried Alive match,
you know, I think the Triple A will turn out
to be the mastermind behind Nexus, and it'll set up
a few to where maybe the Undertaker will take the
world title off of Kine and it'll make it so
that Triple H will have someone to feud with the

(01:52:11):
world title over, so that John Seneker remains at ww
Champion on Raw and Triple Ah can continue his quest
to outd Rick Flair and his sixteen world titles.

Speaker 1 (01:52:19):
Zin and he thought, Jason a lot of territory cover
the reste body. What do you want to pluck from that?
Maybe in particular the King of the Ring victory for Samus.
We talked a little bit about it last week, But
I do think he's on something in the sense that
I looked at King of the Ring as something to
elevate somebody who hasn't already won the world title a
couple of times.

Speaker 11 (01:52:38):
Yeah, I'm with you guys there. I was okay with
Seamous winning But I guess that's the part that infuriated
me was that they didn't manage to get anyone else
over in that tournament. You don't have to win King
of the Ring in order to be elevated. John Morrison
easily could have been had he had three grueling matches
but come up just short. And instead he wins one
of those matches, one of the two matches he won

(01:53:00):
thanks to Ramus Durio honking a horn. How is that?
Can he get anybody over?

Speaker 1 (01:53:04):
Yeah? Yeah, I I wrote all, you know, I kind
of wrote a column previewing King Ring, talked about the
pros and cons to different people winning it, and you know,
Seamus was one of the top candidates to win it.
But I and it gives me, I don't know. I mean,
he didn't really have a gimmick other than people making
fun of him for looking like mayonnaise. So at least
it gives him something to kind of put on his
you know, to talk about and build his character up

(01:53:24):
a little bit. I don't think Alberto do Rio really
needed to be King. I think his his arrogant, you know,
almost a drug lord persona that he has worked for him.
I don't know that a babyface winning would have worked.
Maybe John Morrison could have done something with it that
would have been a little original, But usually it kind
of feels like it should be a heal gimmick. Maybe
Cody Rose would have benefited from it. So we don't,

(01:53:46):
you know. But so it's a little bit more than
just how immaculate he trims his fingernails and shaves his
body hair. I don't know he could have you know,
I think Cody could have done something with it, would
have given him a little something extra. Seemed like the
SmackDown brand could could use a little King of Ring
victory too.

Speaker 11 (01:54:02):
Here's a lot right now.

Speaker 1 (01:54:03):
Yeah, it does just feel like it's it's a little
bit phoned in, well a lot phoned in right now.
I mean, it's not not that I hate the show.
I just I don't It doesn't feel real inspired right now.
But we'll maybe we'll talk about that in the after
show with a little more detail too. I want to
sneak in a quick plug for the new website that
I launched last week. If you haven't heard about it yet,
it's Wadekeller dot com. It's just a page where you

(01:54:26):
can go and it's where I'm blogging on a daily basis,
once or twice a day. I've got different formats that
I'm using. I'm gonna write after the show is over
my raw review. Usually I would do it earlier in
the day, but I was I lost a whole day
yesterday because my computer died Sunday night, And I mean
I literally was paralyzed literally, I shouldn't say that I
was paralyzed figuratively from getting any work done yesterday until

(01:54:51):
until very late in the day. So I'm a little
behind on the blog from normal, but I'll have a
review of ROF there. And I did have some other
things that we've talked about on this show. I expanded
on some things on the blog that we have talked
about on the show. So it's definitely we're checking out
wade teller dot com new place to go. Also, just
about every day, I'm putting up a flashback of an

(01:55:11):
article that I wrote in the past that I think
is worth presenting to a new audience again, and whether
it's one of the things we talked about John Cena
and how five years ago I wrote a cover story
on the crowd reaction to him and the booing and
how WWE internally was discussing doing different things with him
and whether they would panic and turn him heel. So
it's kind of interesting to look back at what I

(01:55:32):
wrote back then and compared to kind of how things
turned out and look back at whether they made the
right decision. The flashback that I put up yesterday was
a ten years ago flashback to evaluating the end of
ECW and their roster and looking at the roster depth.
With Rob van Dam and Rhyino and some other names
on there, you can kind of get a nice overview
of the Holy Roster ten years ago. So anyway, some

(01:55:55):
fun stuff up there off to beat past different stuff
that I really haven't been doing for PW Torch in
recent years. I hope you'll a lot check that out
and bookmarket and check it out either on your smartphone
or on the website. We are down to two people
on hold. We might get more than two calls, so
if you've been holding off on calling or hung up,
give us a call at six four, six, seven two
one nine eight two eight three Quick plugs if you're

(01:56:16):
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That's PW torch dot com slash go vip lots of
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(01:56:37):
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(01:56:59):
we are on from five thirty to six thirty Eastern
Tuesday through Friday, every day Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, and
on Mondays. We're on in the hour leading up to Rock.
So next week we'll start an hour earlier because it's
a three hour show. Normally we're on from eight to
nine Eastern. All right, got that business out of the way.
Let's round out the live version of the show with
some phone calls and go to aeric code eight one eight.

(01:57:21):
Thanks for calling. Please state you name and where you're
from eighty.

Speaker 2 (01:57:26):
This is Jeff.

Speaker 1 (01:57:27):
Hey Jeff, where are you from?

Speaker 8 (01:57:31):
Jack?

Speaker 15 (01:57:31):
I'm from Seam Valley, California.

Speaker 1 (01:57:33):
Oh hey Jack, sorry to get your name wrong. Thanks
for calling. What's on your mind today?

Speaker 15 (01:57:36):
First time caller too?

Speaker 1 (01:57:37):
Oh great, it's great to your new.

Speaker 15 (01:57:39):
Voice in XSU.

Speaker 2 (01:57:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 15 (01:57:42):
Well, I discovered you through iTunes, so I'm glad I
did fantastic. But one of the things that them bothered
me for years is the nominees for the WWE Hall
of Fame, and every year one of my all time favorites,
uh never gets nominated, and that is ravishing. Rick Rude.

(01:58:03):
Is there a reason why they don't put him in?

Speaker 1 (01:58:05):
I think he's a real candidate, Jason, I don't think
there's a real compelling reason. I think for a while
they were staying away, trying to distance themselves from inducting
people who died young, because it doesn't it's not a
real feel good moment when you're honoring somebody who would
still be perhaps wrestling today, or you know, would still
be certainly young enough to accept the award, and so

(01:58:25):
I think that works against you unless you die, you know,
in a car accident or something. But if you die
from a lot of things that WWE. You know, it's
been the center of countries for WWE. I think that's
probably the main reason that there was a delay. But
I think for who WWE has inducted, Rick rud is
a definite, strong, strong candidate. Jason.

Speaker 11 (01:58:45):
Yeah, I agree with everything you said, and I'm so
impressed at the caller actually started with a name that
started with r A and it didn't end with Andy Savage.

Speaker 1 (01:58:56):
There you go. Yes, Yes, we've tackled the Randy Savage
question many times, although it started with R A. Oh ravishing,
thank you Okay, I was thinking, Rick, come on, Jason,
you spell for a living, not very well? All right, Jack?
Anything else for us?

Speaker 15 (01:59:15):
Yeah, there's several, but I'll just make it one more
with this with this uh PG rated w W. I'm
gonna tell you I've been a nearly forty year wrestling
fan and the thing that got it got me into it.
I go back to the early days when wrestling was
huge in Los Angeles and one of my favorites of
all time is John Tolas. But one of the things

(01:59:37):
that first got me into it. I was scrolling through
the stations and then I saw these guys in a
ring and one guy had another guy held up against
the ropes with a tag team and it was Kenji
Shibuya and mister Saito, and I saw one of them
karate chop the other guy in the throat and he
started bleeding. And I've been hooked ever since.

Speaker 1 (01:59:57):
So you want to see bloodback, you think that'll bring
some people in.

Speaker 15 (02:00:01):
Well, that is actually why I enjoy TNA more than
WWE right now, is because it's the old school, you know,
with the blood and the chairs and everything, and it's
to me, it's more to the way it used to
be than the cleaned up version, which I'm not enjoying
about WWE right now.

Speaker 1 (02:00:19):
Well, Jack, thanks for a call. We're in the final minute,
so I'm gonna thank you for your a call there.
Please call again. We definitely love to hear new voices
joining the show. Jason, I grew with what he's saying
about blood. I mean, I think that using it occasionally
in a very strategic way works. I think if you
overdo it, it doesn't mean nearly as much. And I
think t and A can fault can go to a

(02:00:41):
fault obviously when it comes to gimmicks and chairs and
blood and that type of thing, but that's one of
the areas where, you know, I think TNA strategically tries
to exploit the feelings that people like Jack have, which
is WWE is a little too clean for them now.
But I also think it that ww is not a
ton different from a TV product standpoint than what they
were in the early nineties when they were marketing themselves

(02:01:03):
as wholesome family entertainment. There's always been differences in wrestling
in terms of some promotions were more hardcore, others were
a little more family friendly and oriented. It's not like
WWE's doing something that's never been done before. It's just
their marketing it to advertisers stronger. And since they're so national,
people think it's the sharp turn from the way wrestling
ever was. And I think the real difference is just

(02:01:24):
that at the pay per views or house shows, we're
not seeing any blood and it feels much more like,
you know, kind of a family show. I think it's
a bigger change at house shows than it is on
television actually from the totality of wrestling's history in the
last twenty thirty years.

Speaker 11 (02:01:37):
Yeah, you know, boy, if you're going to watch TNA
to get the old school feel, I mean, then you
are just looking for blood, because I think that's the
only thing that really feels old school, with the exception
of some of the talent they have about that product.
But I certainly understand what the caller's saying. I wish
WW is a bit edgier. They don't need to go
just insane like Rick Flair blating himself at times. Yeah,

(02:02:00):
but it's you know, when you see somebody suffer what
equates to a scratch and you see the match stopped
and the trainer, Yeah, that just dirks being it just
I think it earns a lot of people. Yeah, it
doesn't feel genuine. It feels like they're not doing it
because of a safety concern, but rather so they can
go to that advertiser and go see look what we do.

Speaker 1 (02:02:19):
Yes, yep, all right, let's let's try to sneak in
a couple more calls here.

Speaker 6 (02:02:24):
Oh.

Speaker 1 (02:02:25):
I did find that was kind of stammering earlier. One
thing that we talked about earlier. That's on my blog
at wade teller dot com is talking about TNA's relationship
with Spike TV and how there's some diminished value that
TEENA is providing. It was posted on December fourth. If
you go to the main page way coover dot com
and scan down, there's a picture of Hogan and Dixie
Carter and that article might interest you if you're kind
of interested in the u the relationship Spikes has with

(02:02:47):
with TNA. Was there a response to a reader question
on the future of TNA. All right, let's go to
Eric code seven to seven eight. Thanks for calling. Please
state your name and where you're from.

Speaker 9 (02:02:56):
Hey guys, it's Jason for Vancouver, VC.

Speaker 1 (02:02:59):
Hey, Jason, goodere you. I always look here from Vancouver.
Love that?

Speaker 3 (02:03:01):
How right?

Speaker 22 (02:03:04):
I just want to talk to you and able quick
since you guys are on the subject. I watched the
pay per view on the weekend. I didn't pay for it,
but I had an h D feed at a buddy's place.
You know, too many gimmicks and you know what I
was wasn't a great pay per view like watching you know,
a three hour impact. But one thing that really I
noticed and their attention to detail is really bad when

(02:03:25):
it comes to production. Like what they should do with
the pay per views to make them look a little
more special is you know, uh, have some final resolution
no banners in the crowd, or have a ring apron
that says final resolution just looks like a regular Impact
and like stuff like you know, those green lasers. I
can't stand those green lasers that they got when the

(02:03:46):
guys come out to the ring. Make the entrances look
a little different, make make just make the show look
a little different. I think that their attention to detail
detail is really bad.

Speaker 8 (02:03:55):
I think Jason agrees with me.

Speaker 2 (02:03:57):
Give me one of those.

Speaker 11 (02:04:02):
You know what, it's got to be the right subject.
This one isn't it? Because I agree with you. They
could you know, and I don't even thought about this.
They definitely could do little things like banners and just
things to spice it up and make it look like
more of a pay per view event rather than the
same old impact, the same old set. I mean, it's
just you do get tired as a regular viewer. I'm

(02:04:22):
just seeing the same thing week in and week out,
and not that WWE raw changes every week, but they
certainly go out of their way to make you know,
elaborate pay per view sets. I don't expect DNA to
do that, but you know he's right that they can
definitely do little things to spice it up.

Speaker 1 (02:04:36):
I agree. I agree very much with that call. I
think they could even just change the change the set.
You know, they've got good resources there. Have the entrance
in a different spot, really change around the camera angles,
change the color of the lighting, make it look like
a different setting. Even do a wrestler spotlight the wrestlers
that they walk to the ring instead of the entrance ramp,
something like that, you know, turn the lights down, just
give it a real different feel. I think there is

(02:04:58):
something about when you pay for a show, you want
to feel like it is different than what you can
watch for free, and changing the look would probably one
of the most efficient chief ways T and I could
do a good suggestion. Final caller of the day, Eric
Code eighty one to seven. Thanks for calling. Please state
your name and where you're from.

Speaker 4 (02:05:11):
Jimmy from fort Wood, Texas.

Speaker 1 (02:05:12):
How you guys doing a good Jimmy you're getting You're
getting nudged out by all these new callers.

Speaker 18 (02:05:18):
Say hey, just real quick and even if you want
to touch on this tomorrow. That's fine. One does Jeff
Hardy keep that title through Fiday, because I know he's
got his court hearing tomorrow, and with everything that happened
over the weekend, this gives them the perfect opportunity to
be able to get the belt off of him and
Genesis can be theesis of a new DNA whatever that means.

(02:05:41):
But you know, Ho Cogan raising bar blah blah blah.
But the other thing, I do agree with you, the
John Cena thing was pushed way too fast. And also,
is it possible we keep talking about Triple H coming back?
Triple H coming back? Is it possible he's happy as
the executive now and really doesn't see a place for
him to come back, And.

Speaker 1 (02:05:59):
Just give me a lot of time. We're all timing.
I cut you off there. We got the questions. We're
gonna have to cover them in the after show because
we're running out of time. Don't forget visit pro Wrestling
dot net. That's Jason website and PW Torch dot com
and Wadkeller dot com and we're also apps, so search
for us on your smartphones until later next time. Way
Keller's signing off.

Speaker 3 (02:06:32):
Thank you for using blog talk radio.

Speaker 8 (02:06:35):
Goodbye.

Speaker 1 (02:06:42):
You don't have to wait for the way Keller Pro
Wrestling post show to find out what I thought of
Monday Night Raw and SmackDown. Each week, you can check
out my reports that are updated live throughout Raw and
SmackDown at pwtorch dot com. My written report will tell
you what's happening in detail in case you missed the show,
and it will also analyze ty segments and give my
random thoughts quips on what I am watching as it airs.

(02:07:04):
So check it out every Monday night and Tuesday night
at pewtorch dot com. That also applies to WWE pay
per views. I cover those live at pw torch dot
com with a detailed written report with star ratings. And
of course you can find other TV reports from other
contributors to pw torch such as nxt roh, Impact Wrestling
and more. Check it out pw torch dot com your

(02:07:25):
first stop for TV and pay per views written reports.
All right, Jason, We're now to the VP after to
show portion of the program. Jimmy gave us a question
at the very end of the show. Two part question.

(02:07:47):
First of all covered Jeff Party. Second of all throplate.

Speaker 11 (02:07:50):
Well, Jeff Pardy, I think if he doesn't drop the
title tonight, he's not going to drop it anytime soon.
I haven't you know, I don't know what went on
there last night in terms of his behavior or anything
like that. I would hope that he was on his
best behavior, But from talking to people coming out of
the pay per view on Sunday night, there wasn't the
expectation that anything was going to happen as far as

(02:08:11):
him dropping the title. The assumption was that because they
let him work the match, they let him keep the
title on Sunday, it was going to be business as
usual unless there was another problem. As far as Hunter goes,
starting to hear more and more rumblings that, you know,
when he talks about working maybe not doing a full
time schedule, people are starting to think, you know, what's

(02:08:32):
he's sincere because he does have additional duties now, he
does have three daughters now, and I don't think there's
any chance we don't get Hunter back here within the
next month. Probably. I would think would sometime in January,
is my guess, because they're just you know, all signs
with Seamus last night pointed to Hunter and so I
think he does come back, but I don't know that

(02:08:53):
he works the full time schedule like he always has.
I mean, that's one of the things that even the
biggest trip as critic has to acknowledge and appreciate is
that this guy didn't have to continue to work all
those house shows. I mean, he went out there and
worked a regular wrestler schedule, even though he was, you know,
the sun in Lawn and probably the future head of

(02:09:15):
the company in a lot of ways. He went out
there and worked all the house shows on a regular basis,
didn't take any short touts there.

Speaker 1 (02:09:22):
Good point. Good point. Yeah, I think with Jeff Hardy,
why would we expect TNA to be all that alarmed
at what Jeff Hardy. You know about what happened with
Jeff Harty this weekend. I mean, that's what they got,
That's what they hired. I mean, they couldn't help but
do some new diligence on him with not very much effort.

(02:09:43):
Clearly they knew what they were getting and what showed
up Sunday is what they got when they originally hired him,
and they weighed the risks in the rewards and decided
to go for it. They put a lot into his
heal character, A lot of storyline focus has been on
Jeff Hardy as a heel for the first time. Hasn't
made much of a difference in the ratings. But you know,
I mean, yeah, I'm kind of with you. I don't think.

(02:10:03):
I think the fact that he was able to sleep
it off and go out and perform, I wouldn't even
be shocked if some people in TENA don't see it
as And I told you so that you know Jeff
as a professional and was able to go out and perform,
and and you know, some people have adverse effects to
the cold medicine and travel schedule and blah blah blah,
all the things that were that you know, take it,
take it for what, Take it however you will. And

(02:10:24):
you know, triple H. I think there is a possibility
that we could be seeing uh, triple H, you know,
if he comes back kind of being more selective uh
in what he does when when he comes back. I
don't think that it's a foregone conclusion that we're going
to see him work twelve thirteen pay per views in
a twelve month period. Ever, again, he might even come

(02:10:45):
back for a few months and then disappear for a
few months and then come back. He might kind of
pick a spots, you know, jumping.

Speaker 11 (02:10:50):
Back to Jeff t and a knows Firstthand it's not
like this is his first run at the company. He
was bad during his final days in w w WEE
before he ended up going to TNA the first time around,
but he was off the charts bat according to so
many people during that run with TNA at different points,
you know, not every time, but there were definitely stories

(02:11:12):
about him having to be rounded up while he's wandering
around the theme park and rush back into the building
to get him out there for his match on time
and things like that. You know, they knew what they
were getting, You're absolutely right, and I think they were
hoping that. You know, he had a pretty success well,
he had a really successful run financially, but aside from

(02:11:34):
the wellness issue there late in the run things it
seemed like they were getting a healthier Jeff Hardy and WWE.
But when you don't have those, you know, stricter guidelines
like WWE does with the wellness policy, I think there's
always going to be caused for alarm. But this is
the same company that employees. Gott Hall employed kerd Angle

(02:11:54):
when you know, following his run with w W and
all the all the well documented issues he had. I
mean they yep, they dodged bullets so far. Mike, you know,
at some point you just worried that, given pro wrestling's
history with the deaths and everything else, one of these
is going to occur on their watch. And I hate
to be morbid, but I think it's a very valid concern,

(02:12:16):
and it's I'm sure the lack shocked and surprised, but
there's gonna be a lot of finger pointing when that
day final if that day finally comes. Hopefully it doesn't,
but I don't know, way, I just they just they
play with fire way too often with these guys.

Speaker 1 (02:12:31):
I agree with you. We said we wanted to talk,
or I said, I want to talk to NVF. You
have to show about announcing a little bit more. Let's
go ahead and talk about it. You taught you said
Michael Cole really showed something us. Mat I think he's
showing a lot. I still think there is money in
Michael Cole. And I mean I thought this. I wasn't
crazy about the you know, the NXT and the obsession
with Daniel Bryant because I was I was focused on
the announcing and not liking the fact that the lead

(02:12:53):
announcer was kind of playing a heel it seemed on Tuesdays,
but being more straight on Mondays. And then that leaked
over to run and it just seemed really awkward. That
all that said, I think one thing has to be stressed.
Michael Cole's really good at doing what he's been asked
to do, and last night was another good performance. I mean,
I just think for all his years on the air,
we talk about Vince McMahon, he was an announcer for

(02:13:15):
years and years and years and then he broke out
of it, turned heel and battled Stone Cold Steve Auston
and McMahon coming out of the announced booth becoming heel figure. Now,
Michael Cole's no Vince McMahon when it comes to the
legacy of being a lead babyface announcer in the face
of the company and even as a performer. But it's
not like I think the drop off from Vince as

(02:13:36):
a heel character to Cole is less than the drop
from Jim Ross to Michael Cole the announcer. I think
Michael Cole could be a foil or a nemesis for
the Miz if they're committing to Mis long term. If
for instance, they did something where Cole felt and this
would be down the line where Cole is Miss's number

(02:13:56):
one fan obsessively, and if something happened where Miz didn't
show Cole the proper respect or you know, Cole. I'm
thinking of the unstable number one fan thing, the what
was the single white female type thing where somebody just
completely freaks out, the old roommader acts, who freaks out.
You could see Mis turning baby facing and this is

(02:14:17):
down the line and Cole freaking out and try to
take Mis down. But they had built up this history
between them first, so there's I don't know. I think
there's a lot of different ways that could go with it.
But I like Cole as a potential heel manager, and
he could be pro Miz for a while and eventually
be the guy who tries to take him down. The
Bobby Heenan to Hogan, the Vince to Steve Austin. What
do you think?

Speaker 11 (02:14:36):
Yeah, I think there are a lot of possibilities with
the Cole character. I think he's doing a phenomenal job
last night, I thought was his best mic work and
has got to be professionally satisfying for him right now
to go from being Vince McMahon's, you know, just scapegoat
and whipping boy in so many ways for all those
years on commentary to being one of his pet projects.

(02:14:57):
And you know, I don't I haven't heard him any
thing about Vince be rating Cole for his his mic
work these days. Rather, you know, it's here. He is
doing some of the best work of his career, and
I think it shows, you know, I think he's having
fun for the first time in a long time in
WWE's doing a really good job. I like the idea
of the you know, the single white female type thing,

(02:15:18):
the thing he has to work on, and he's probably
being produced this way. It didn't show up last Land,
but it does a lot of times in commentary where
he gives you the wink, he always lets you know
it's tongue in cheek and if you're gonna be a heel,
don't do that, you know, don't They make the mistake
of showing him on commentary at times when he's healing
on one of the other announcers and he's always doing

(02:15:39):
it with the smile on his face. You know it
just be a heel, I guess, is what I'm trying
to say with Cole.

Speaker 1 (02:15:45):
Yeah. Yeah, I'm all for just in a very broad
general sense when from opening the closing credits on a
TV show, be in character, stay in character. Don't wink
at the audience. We don't want that they think we
want that. There's people who think we want that. Ed
Farrara talked about it, and then's torch talk with me
a few years ago. Ah wait, the audience now they
know it. They know it's fake. They don't want to

(02:16:07):
be insulted by during the show us pretending like it's real.
And I'm just like, no, no, no, that's I just
that maybe there was a moment in time in the
mid to late nineties where that was true and you
could you could play off of the fact that for
the first time ever, we're winking to you and we're
saying you're one of us, and we're not trying to
put one over on you. But people want to be
sucked in and and and brought into that universe for

(02:16:28):
while they're watching, Just like in True Blood, you're not
sitting here wanting the vampires to wink at you going heah,
it's fake blood. And look at how the fans work.
You know we we are or you know, the uh
Walking Dead. It's like, we don't we want to be
in that world where it's apocalypse. It's zombies everywhere and
humanity's at risk. That give us that in wrestling, and
I stop apologizing for what you are and stop thinking

(02:16:50):
we want to be winked at during the show.

Speaker 11 (02:16:52):
Yeah, yeah, well said. And I think that is one
of the keys that you know, it's I guess when
Cole's on commentary, it's probably different than when he's cutting promos.
You know, we haven't seen that with him when he's
doing the anonymous general manager or anything like that. But
it just can I want consistency from him. And then
I do think this guy's the limit. You know, there's
a lot they can do and God of Arm was intentional,

(02:17:13):
but how much makeup does that guy need to wear?
Maybe that'll be part of the gimming one forward.

Speaker 1 (02:17:18):
Yeah really, I'm glad though that whatever he's done, it
doesn't seem anymore like his shoulders are swallowing his head.
Because there was a time when I think he was
trying to fit in with the wrestlers a lot, and
he was doing a lot of weightlifting and probably drinking
way too many protein shapes. And it's just it's seriously,
and Dana White has this too. It looks like his
shoulders are are about to swallow his head and it
actually seems like his shoulders are dropped and he's become

(02:17:39):
it fits his natural frame a little bit more so. Yes,
I'm critiquing Michael Cole's look, but when he started, he
was kind of a normal looking guy, or you could
kind of tell what he was supposed to look like.
And then he got on this whole thing. I'm gonna
I'm gonna have big arms and I'm gonna show him
off on these on these you know, little video packages
that they do for the DVDs and stuff, and it's like, oh, great,
you've got muscles. Now the wrestlers are going to totally

(02:18:00):
respect you. And it's like, at least I think he's
kind of gone back to being a normal, you know,
a normal announcer guy. Now yeah, yeah, I don't know,
all right, see them punk on commentary. I want to
talk about that, and then I want to weave it
back into the Terry Lawler Michael Cole performs a little bit,
but what'd you think of seampunk on commentary last night
and week two as start to finish color Guy solid.

Speaker 11 (02:18:20):
You know, like I said earlier, it just it was
better without Cole there, just because Punk was able to
stand out more. He didn't have to worry about agreeing
with Cole. There weren't two guys trying to say the
same thing. He's not making some of the rookie mistakes
that he was making the first couple episodes where he's
you know, talking while the graphic has shown about something
entirely different. He's doing a better job, and I think,

(02:18:43):
you know, he definitely does bring an edginess that you
listen for. Cole was doing that early on when he started,
you know, cheerot cheerleading the Miz. I found myself paying
a lot more attention to Cole and Lawler at that
time than I was before when they were just kind
of doing there. Both guys are neutral kind of thing,
or even babyface kind of thing, and I'm paying a

(02:19:04):
lot more attention now that Cole is or seeing Punk
is on the broadcast team. Spoke to someone in the
industry who you know. I wouldn't say they know for
sure or anything like that, but their gut tells him that.
You know, even when Punk's healthy, don't be surprised if
he sticks around in that role a lot longer than
people think.

Speaker 1 (02:19:23):
And what's interesting about that, And it's something too Jason
to ask around a little bit about. I talked to
somebody who talked to Punk who said Punk was not
happy about having to do announcing. Yeah, he wanted when
he was to sign that. Initially, he wanted to get
time off like everybody else when he was injured. He says,
what you know, his attitude was, why does everybody else
get to have time off when they're injured? And I

(02:19:44):
got a fly out to raw every week? And I
was as surprised as you just reacted to hearing that,
because it's kind of a natural thing for him. He
did some and ring of honor. Maybe maybe, and this
is the detail that I'm not sure on and I'd
have to check on it. Maybe it's when he was
just doing Superstars, And maybe what happened is is he thought, oh,
you know, I got to do Superstars. That's not really
you know, nobody watches it. No one's going to talk

(02:20:05):
about it. Maybe he did a good enough job and
they said, hey, let's have you do Raw. He might
be quite enthusiastic about the Raw promotion, so I think
it was more tied to doing Superstars and having to
travel out to do an hour of a show that
nobody's going to talk about. So the fact that this
wasn't something he pushed for during his injury is interesting.

(02:20:26):
But what you said doesn't surprise me. I could see
Punk still valuable in the ring, though, you know, so
it's hard to imagine him being an announcer and a wrestler.
He's good at color commentary. I don't think they're pushing
Jerry Lawler out the door. I don't agree with Bruce's
speculation that maybe that's what this is all about. I
still think Punk is just too valuable as a wrestler
to put him in this to move him away from

(02:20:48):
being in ring in ring action and to an announcer,
especially because it's not something that he at least initially
pushed for.

Speaker 11 (02:20:54):
Boy, if they're trying to push Jerry Lahler out the door,
it's in a backfire on him because he seems like
he's more popular these last two weeks and he's ever
been you know, in WWE anyway, And as far as
Punk goes, I just love the ex chair, you know,
the improv last night between he and John Cena. I
assume it was in yeah where you know, the the

(02:21:14):
don't spill my drink, my diet drink or whatever the
heck he said.

Speaker 1 (02:21:17):
And yep, my iPod, my iPhone, my iPhone.

Speaker 2 (02:21:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 11 (02:21:20):
Then you have seen the hand, you know, trying to
hand him a wristband and Punk swatting that way. That
was really fun and it kind of you know, I
don't think it's going to necessarily set up anything, but
if they want to, you know, that could be the
start of it. Is they slowly build toward Punk's return,
and maybe if you'd have seen if they want to
go that route.

Speaker 1 (02:21:36):
Yep, yep. We are running our second VIP sale of
the year. You want to take advantage of this. If
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to our order form and you can choose a one

(02:21:57):
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(02:22:18):
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(02:22:39):
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code n OV twenty five to take nine dollars off

(02:23:02):
a one month, three month or one year sub Lawler
continues to be amazing. Speaking of him, I mean, I
just it's I mean, it's I hate the term is
such a cliche because it is something that people spee
out when they use cliches as much. But Lawler has
put on a clinic. I mean, younger wrestlers can look

(02:23:24):
at Lawler's Lawler's a guy who's not winking at the camera.
And that's what I you know, going back to what
I said, I love with Lawler because as much as
he is, when when that when the end credits come on,
he clocks out. I mean, he's not the guy who's
sitting here going, oh, you know, let me let me
mark out and I'm gonna he He spends his afternoons
anytime he can, going to the nearest mall and walking
around and shaking hands and shopping for things and looking

(02:23:44):
for collectible and then he clocks in, doesn't do a
lot of pre production stuff, does his show, and then
he doesn't think about wrestling for six days and it
comes back to bite him sometimes and and and he's
been criticized to that because he doesn't it doesn't seem
like he's somebody who's really familiar with smack down in
that type of bank. That's said, when he is on,
he is on, and he is in that world one

(02:24:05):
hundred percent. And granted he's gifted charismatically and the way
he speaks, in the way tox and he's got tons
of experience, but there's something to be said for unabashedly
being completely in character when he does it. And I mean,
he's you can just tell how he If you haven't
seen Jerry Lawler in his prime in the eighties and
Memphis late seventies and eighties, he you're getting a glimpse

(02:24:27):
of how he sold out that mid Self Sports Coliseum
just he could talk people in the door. He's so good.
And I'm glad a whole new generation are getting a
chance to see that. And I hope the wrestlers are
paying attention because I know Jerry Lawler has felt kind
of bad in the past and now he's kind of
gotten pasted it and given up on it. That Vincent
Man didn't tap into him more for helping the young
guys and advising them on how to make their characters

(02:24:48):
more believable. Jerry has strong thoughts and opinions on wrestling
and has a lot to contribute, but because he hasn't
been asked so much, he withdrew and he showed up,
did what he did well for an hour or for
a couple hours on RAW, and then checks out and
it clocks out again. But I think this shows that
he would have a lot to add, a lot more
than a lot of the producers and agents to developing
some of the younger talent on the MIC.

Speaker 23 (02:25:09):
Oh.

Speaker 11 (02:25:10):
I agree, you know, he's one of the They've got
some agents who've had some success over the years, but
Lawler was the main event guy in that territory for
so long, and we joke about him checking out, and
not even joke, I mean, it's it's true that once
he's done with RAW, he goes home and he doesn't
think about WWE again, but he stays active. You know,
he still wrestles this guy. I don't know if it's

(02:25:30):
the love of the money, the love of the fame,
or the love of wrestling or a combination platter. We
know he doesn't need the money, but this guy keeps
very active independent schedule.

Speaker 1 (02:25:41):
Yep, yep. Anything else from Raw jump Out. We talked
about Seamus, We talked about the Lawler Cole Angele talked
about seampunkin commentary, and John Cena joked a little bit
about the Take Team division. Anything else from last night
show jump Out that we haven't covered.

Speaker 11 (02:25:56):
You know, I just think that opening segment was so
well done. I really that, And there's little things you
could pick apart, but just when I'm like, wow, they're
they're rooting Lawlert, they're putting him right back in the spot,
he holds onto Cole's hand and Randy Orton, and I
just thought, man, that was just so well done. I mean,
it's just the crowd erupted when Randy Yorton came out,

(02:26:18):
and I think that speaks Volumes two about will time
away does these guys good? It was a week for
Randy Orton, and even for me, who watches week in,
week out all the shows, he felt fresher just with
one week away. And boy, you know what what a
difference it may have made had they gone that route
with John Cena given this storyline and kept him off

(02:26:38):
television for a little bit. And I know they're so
concerned with well, if we don't have Seena, then you know,
there goes the kids and they may never come back.
But I think they'd find out that if seen him went,
had he gone away for even two weeks, when he
came back, he would have felt a lot fresher than
he does. You know, just he hasn't even you know,
he's been fired. He hasn't even missed a TV And

(02:26:59):
it's just that's that part of the storyline. It really
rubs me the wrong way. It's really hard. It's gonna
be tough going forward. What can you come up with?

Speaker 6 (02:27:07):
Now?

Speaker 11 (02:27:07):
What's his stake for John Cena that we can take
seriously if he's gonna loser, leaves WWE match or anything
like that. Ever, again, everyone's just gonna roll their eyes
and go, yeah, we've we've been down that road before.

Speaker 1 (02:27:17):
I'm not as downant as you are, and only what
you're saying is necessarily invalid. I'm just I I guess
the best way to phrase it is I have a
little more faith that they have a reason timeline wise
to move this quickly through it. I have the same
concerns you do. I do think. What I like about
what they've done is that there is a logic to

(02:27:38):
John Cena and Barrett and how this has played out.
It might seem to have gone fast, but I don't
think John Cena needed to spend four months under a
mask and then fight to take the mask off at
WrestleMania necessarily for this to be a good storyline. And
the thing that I think is the overriding positive about this,
even if it feels rushed and even if people might
not believe a stipulation later, is John Cena is the

(02:28:00):
smarter guy. The Babyface is out smarting the heel to
the letter of the law. He's actually following the letter
of the law and outsmarting the heel. Sting looked stupid,
he got how many times did he get turned on
by Rick Flair? Bruce Mitchell jokes about that all the time.
This is a case where the baby Face is outsmarting
the heel, and the heel is smart, but the baby
Face is one step ahead. And I like the way

(02:28:21):
that he played Nexus, especially David o'tunga knowing that they're
not one hundred percent behind way Barrett. There's some internal strip.
I like how Sena manipulated the situation smartly to get
the Nexus members to break from taking orders from Wade Barrett.
He found a way to use Wade Barrett's own stipulations
against him and really put Barrett in a corner. I

(02:28:42):
like that a lot. Did I expect this to be
happening three or six weeks from now? Not now? I did,
Like I said, in six to eight weeks, I'm gonna
look back and I might completely join you in being
critical of it. But I'm kind of wondering. They've impressed
me with some twists and turns so far more often
than I been disappointed. I'm actually looking forward to seeing
what they do next week with us and how they

(02:29:04):
get more out of it.

Speaker 2 (02:29:05):
Yeah, I am too.

Speaker 11 (02:29:06):
I guess it's some of the little things that have
bothered me, Like, you know, seeing him being there each
and every week is one, but also just what does
he have to wear the ring gear? You know, he
wears the same clothes every week. We never nothing felt different.
It's just like Johnsen is on the show like he
always has been. Maybe if you know, if you saw
him sitting in the that first week, if he had

(02:29:26):
sat in the crowd the entire show, right. You know,
that would have been interesting had he wear Warren even
street clothes and we got a break from the jean shorts,
would have been nice. Just little things like that that
I think could have enhanced this and made it feel
a little more, you know, it made it easier to
suspend your disbelief that, okay, there's something different about this,
rather than just I know, there's John Cena wearing what
John Cena wears every week and he's fired.

Speaker 1 (02:29:48):
But we all know he's not a lot of people
I'm a critical of what John Cena wore, And this
is sort of a side sidebar to what you said.
Somebody posted a comment recently, I think on I've been
away color dot com in response to johnsena clothing saying,
one of the reasons that and I never thought of it
this way that Sina and maybe everyone else has. One
of the reasons that Seena dresses like he does with
the oversized jeans and the oversized shirt is to look
like a big kid. Like One of the reasons kids

(02:30:11):
like him is he looks like just kind of a giant, muscular,
fantasy action figure version of a big kid. You know,
he kind of walks like a like a kid walks.
He doesn't have He's not super adult like in that.
Maybe he's stuck with that look for that reason. Again,
that's not a not a criticism or that's not a rebuttal.
What you're saying that, you know, stay in the crowd
and look a little different than notes just be Johnsena.
But there is kind of a signature look to what

(02:30:31):
he has, and it works against him. I've always focused
on how it works against him. It just doesn't look
very much like an athlete. And I think, as seen
A joked a couple of weeks ago, the men boom
for a reason, and one of them is he looks
like a big kid wearing oversize clothes. But I think
that works for him with one of the target demographics
that helped get them the MATEL deal.

Speaker 11 (02:30:50):
No, I definitely can see that. I just wish, you know,
at some point you've got to shake it up a
little bit.

Speaker 2 (02:30:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 11 (02:30:56):
I don't know that just swishing collars of the sheet
T shirt is going to be enough. I mean, it's
not like the crowd's turning on him right now or
anything like that. So I guess what he's doing is working.
But maybe maybe it's just a regular viewer thing too
that you know, because we do watch this show weekend
and week out. That look, it's a little more tired
to us than it does for the casual viewer.

Speaker 1 (02:31:16):
Well shift gears for the final topic, and that is
the TENA paper on Sunday night. You've talked about it
at length to your members and I have to mine,
but a little bit of back and forth on the
what we talked about earlier in the live cast, which
is the replacement match. Let's say Hardy just passed out
and was unable to go completely. They had what is

(02:31:37):
what would be your B plan that was better than
Jeff Jarrett, mister and mister Anderson against Matt Morgan for
basically the held up title.

Speaker 11 (02:31:45):
Well, yeah, I mean the promise. You don't have Rick
Flair Mack stage. I don't think kurd Angle was there
if I recall, So it's not like you could surprised
people with that. Gosh, maybe something with get Rob van
Dam out of that match with Rhino, uh, get Jessimoa
Joe out of that match, you know, do something to
set up a real title situation. Why in the world

(02:32:08):
other than a mortal I guess is you know leading
the charge. Would you put Jeff Jarrett in that match?
To me is just insane. The MMA gimmick is fun comedy.
It's not number two heel material, and that's a real
issue in TNA right now. I think one of the
reasons they're reluctant to take the title off Hardy is
because they've stacked the deck with so many babyface opponents

(02:32:28):
for him that if they put the title on the
babyface and Hardy disappears, who's it going to be? You'd
have to do a bunch of terms again, because yeah,
there's a heel faction in the Mortal but the major
players don't wrestle, and no one's going to. I don't
think anyone's going to pay at this point to see
Jeff Jarrett challenging for a title or Abyss challenging for
a title, and aj Stallsmy might be a great wrestler,

(02:32:49):
but I don't think anyone's gonna pay to see him
challenge for a title either.

Speaker 1 (02:32:52):
I know, you know one thing that strung me is
when I looked at the roster and I always, you know,
I go to TNA Wrestling dot Com and click on roster,
and I look at the options, and they didn't. It
was so last second they didn't have time to bring
other people in. But even when you think about the
people who weren't there, you know, the Dudley's, I don't
know if they were backstage. Probably well they're local. They
live locally, don't they they do, Yeah, yeah, so they

(02:33:13):
might have been there. They might have you know, maybe
they were a two hour drive away, but you know,
I don't know that put Debon and you know, like
Brother Ray and Devon. Let's say they're they're an hour away,
and they could have called them on short notice and said,
we're going to put you guys in a three way
with Matt Morgan for the title, and we're going to
cash in a little bit on your feud and rush
the story. You know, they may not like that because
they got weeks and weeks planned out. That would be

(02:33:34):
one option, but it's not a great option, Kurt Angle,
you're rushing something that you want to, you know, play
out the way you've got it planned out. There's not
a lot of options that you look at. You know,
Hernandez hasn't really that would seem like out of the blue.
They're just not a lot of great options. But maybe
if what they said is we're Jeff Hardy's been stripped,
and we're We've now deemed three of these matches contendership

(02:33:55):
matches or two matches on the undercard contentership matches, and
whoever wins the Rhino RVD match and the Jeff Jarrett's
mo Joe match, they would then advance into the three
way against Matt Morgan for the held up title. Give
some justification if it ended up being right, Jeff Jarrett
and somebody else have a reason for them being in
that match. Make it look like Jared did something to

(02:34:16):
get there. I wrote on my blog last night, Jared
being the guy I just no matter what attributes Jeff has,
and he's not the worst wrestler ever. He's a good,
solid ring general, usually clear headed. You know he's going
to show up for work. He's the founder all that stuff.
There's a lot of things I'm sure he can point
to that he would say, Hey, I'm the best guy
for the job. The problem is, however good you are

(02:34:37):
compared to the greenness and the unreliability or the lack
of experience whatever of other guys. Jeff Jarrett in a
pay per view made events in twenty ten for t
ANDA sets back even more, if possible, the image that
T and A is moving forward at all, and you
don't want to remind people of nineteen ninety nine and
two thousand WCW, and that would do it. And it's
fair or unfair to Jeff Jarrett. He isn't the next

(02:34:58):
big thing, and TNA needs to be not going safe
and not going with the familiar, and not going with
the guys who have a ten year and deserve it
because of this or that or that into they have
to when an opportunity like that arises, you've got to
take the You've got to take that opportunity to do
something different, not the same where everyone's gonna groan and
Jared just shouldn't have even been an option.

Speaker 24 (02:35:24):
Longing for some nostalgia or maybe you want to learn
some wrestling history, don't miss the nineties pass cast Every
Friday on the PW Torch Daily Cast Feed, Alex and
Patrick will transport you thirty years into the past by
taking you through the Torch issue from that very week.
Follow news from the WWF and WCW and all the

(02:35:44):
happenings from across the wrestling industry in real time as
The Torch reported it thirty years ago. That's the nineties
pass cast every Friday on the PW Torch Daily Cast feed.

Speaker 11 (02:36:04):
For the It's like, I say, a mid undercard comedy
act and it's been entertaining, but there's a place for it,
and second from the top unless it's a buffer match,
which that I don't think they viewed that as a
buffer match. I think they really looked at that as
like the semi main event. That's crazy, you know, he
just doesn't belong there.

Speaker 1 (02:36:25):
I agree. So for substitution, Jason, do we have a
what's the final? What's your final pick? If you're if
if Jeff Hardy can't go what what's your what's your
I would have done this.

Speaker 11 (02:36:38):
I probably go with and this off the top of
my head. Van Dam Morgan Van Dam never got his
oper you know, never got he was stripped of the
title without losing it. That's probably something they want to say,
but something they're doing a very good job of building
him up and keeping him relevant. He's feuding with his
E c W buddies and completely forgettable matches. But I

(02:37:00):
guess to fall back if you're if you don't want
to go with that match, and for whatever reason, they
didn't want to turn those into contenders matches. You sneak
a Battle Royal on there, and you just say, whoever
wins the Battle Royal is going to face Matt Morgan
and then you then you've got a little bit more,
a little more to work with if you want to
sneak somebody in that maybe hasn't been in the title
picture or something like that.

Speaker 1 (02:37:18):
Yep, good point. Yeah, give a reason for Let's say
Hernandez happened to be visiting backstage and he's like, hey,
I'm ready to go. Guy, you go, Hey, you know what,
Let's let's let this be the uh you know, not
an often three sixteen oh you know, but the happenstance
moment where we had to do something we want to
have done otherwise. Let's see if it catches fire a
little bit.

Speaker 11 (02:37:34):
Well, and here's I what's to do with Okay, mister
Anderson isn't going to wrestle again in December in TNA,
yet he works in indie show. I don't know how
much he did on an indie show. Yeah that it
may have just been a complete MS, but okay, we're
not going to have him wrestle, but we're in a pinch,
so you know what, we're going to have him wrestle
after all? How seriously are they taking this head tron issue?

Speaker 1 (02:37:54):
My hope is the reason Jeff Jarrett probably volunteered to
be in that spot was he's been in enough matches
where they could probably work something out where jareded Morgan
and Anderson would work a match where Anderson wouldn't really
be putting himself at much risk. I think a one
on one match with Anderson would have made me a
lot more concerned. The fact that they talked about it
being a three way makes me think maybe there was

(02:38:15):
a little bit of concern, you know, for whether they
were going to ask Anderson to do a lot and
they were going to try to work around it, but
they felt like Jared Morgan doesn't make sense Anderson fit
storyline wise. Let's get him in the match, but let's
not have him do much of anything.

Speaker 11 (02:38:29):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, and if that was the plan,
so be it.

Speaker 8 (02:38:32):
You know that.

Speaker 11 (02:38:33):
But I'm with you at Jared just had no place
being in that match whatsoever other than oh, you know,
it's immortal. But even that doesn't make sense because if
it's a mortal putting their guy in the match. Aren't
they going to stack the deck in his favor instead
of having him go in there with two babyfaces?

Speaker 1 (02:38:49):
Oh right, I know that's a tough one too. Final
topic forgo Matt Morgan just as a lead babyface right now.
Anderson knocked out for a while, they had to elevate
somebody didn't have a lot of choices. But Matt Morgan
has been the kind of the centerpiece baby face. Do
you think they're doing a decent job pushing him and
do you think he's taking what he's being given and
running with it?

Speaker 11 (02:39:07):
I do, yeah, I think both on both counts. I
think they've given him the spotlight. It was a tough
It's tough position because you know which, Jeff Hardy's just
getting the belt unless he shows up a complete mess
with the building and you have to take the title
off him, You're not going to book a title change
this soon. But he really has run with it. I
think he's I like the dynamic with the you know,

(02:39:31):
Eric Bischoff's son, the referee and Morgan kind of playing
the role of that Detroit Tiger who had the no
hit or taken away from m Galla Raga I think
is his name, and being the nice guy and you know,
miss accidents happen. That's a way that you can endear
yourself to the fans is if you're not sitting there
crying over spilt milk all the time. He's he's done
a much better job than I think I expected because

(02:39:54):
we've seen him play a good heel before. But I
didn't know what he would be like as a baby face.
And I just and flashbacks to that awful tag team
with Abish. You know, I can't even remember if they
maybe they were heels at the time. I don't even remember. No,
I think they were babyfaces. And you know, it just
it didn't never clicked. But you know that that never
stops DNA from shoving it down our throats.

Speaker 1 (02:40:15):
Right, Yeah, yeah, I like them too. I think you
know I taught to you much earlier this year about
Rob van Dam and I made the argument, if you're
gonna bring him in, go all the way, like, don't
don't have them mid card with Rhino in a first
And they did, they kind of. I mean they won
seventy percent of all the way. They built a bridge
seventy percent and then they forgot the last three. But
they were gonna make Rob van dam their their brand identity,

(02:40:39):
and Hogan gave the lift service to it. They spoke
and acted to a certain degree like they were doing it,
and then they kind of dropped the ball, you know,
and I think they didn't. They didn't. I don't even
think they quite know how to do that. They're scared,
They're always hedging and that type of thing. I think.
You know, when Aja wasn't the right guy to go
with his Rick Lair Junior wearing the robe, going with
it just was kind of it was like it was
like he rated rated as that close and it just

(02:41:00):
looked bad. Aj didn't fit that character. But Matt Morgan again,
I say the same thing. Don't go halfway with him
if you're gonna make him the champion. And I think
making Matt Morgan a champion is a very legitimate option
based on what he's showing. He's got leadership skills, he's
got a good look, he's got good size. He can
to the average fan flipping channels if they see that
the promotion's built around him and the opening montage and

(02:41:21):
is about him, and the people go okay, I'm gonna
give this guy a look, it's different. You're not going
to get that with Jeff Jarrett. You know, you're not
gonna even get that with Rob van Dam at this
point with what he's showing, go all the way like you.
I mean, that's where you give somebody. It's what I
wrote about Randy Orton. Maybe Morgan isn't the dream guy
to like, the ultimate first round draft pick guy that

(02:41:43):
you just you want to build a promotion around when
you're trying to get to the next level. But if
you book him kind of like Randy Orton, is it.
But if you book him the right way as the
guy who all of a sudden just has this hot streak.
He matured a little bit late. People don't need to
know how old he is. That he can be twenty
six or twenty seven, not thirty something. Give him that
winning streak, that streak of holding the title and plowing
through competition, you know, competitive matches, but winning clean. Make

(02:42:07):
the storyline. Can anybody stop at Morgan? And the way
to tell that story isn't in six weeks or eight weeks.
And this is where Vince Russo's head explodes. It's telling
that story over ten eighteen twenty two months, and I
just think TNA they did that, it would give Morgan
might be the right guy to go with. You give
him a wide variety of opponents and see what happens.

(02:42:27):
At some point you got to pick somebody somewhat new
and really get behind them. And I think Morgan's shown
me enough where given their options, I think Morgan's a
pretty legitimate candidate to try that approach, and I think
it would be pretty novel.

Speaker 11 (02:42:40):
Yeah, you know, I kind of wonder how much of
are they trying to build something with Rob van dam
for the eventual rematch with Jeff Hardy or is she
just you know, kind of in the doghouse because he
had that situation where they wanted him to work more
dates and the dates that he agreed to it expired
and that's the big reason they took the belt off

(02:43:00):
him in the first place. And ever since he's come back,
it's just been mid card city for him working with
the ev two guys. Maybe it's just, you know, it
might be a coincidence and just poor TNA booking, but
you have to wonder. And so if you take Van Damount,
you don't want to rush into that. They've already had
an angle kind of sidetracked anyway. I think the real options
were Anderson, who they were going to go with, but

(02:43:21):
something happened there and then it was Joe or Matt Morgan,
and I give him credit. Yeah, they kind of went
against the grain with that one. I don't think too
many people saw that coming, and it's turned out to
be I think I think it's made for pretty good television.
He doesn't seem out of place in that role.

Speaker 1 (02:43:36):
And I think Anderson, and you know, I don't think
you're taking something away from Edison if you don't. If
you say we're gonna make Matt Morgan the t ANDNA
World Champion and push him to the moon as the
unbeatable champion, defends the title on pay per view once
a month against you know, variety of opponents. He's our
you know, not not the Goldberg winning street thing. Do
it differently so it doesn't look like you're copying something
that was done before. But if you tell me, but

(02:43:56):
mister Edison might be more along the lines of the
Roddy Piper j Robert Guy. He doesn't need a world title,
he doesn't even need a TV or you know Intercontinental
US type title. Mister Anderson can just be the guy,
the agitator and the guy who rubs people the wrong way,
and as a baby face, he stands up to peels
who need to be need to need to be humbled,

(02:44:17):
and he can get in their face. He can be
a little bit of the gatekeeper for Matt Morgan. If
you make it through mister Anderson, you know that mansia
a real contender and he can talk his way right
back into another feud. I don't know that he's the
ideal guy to build the world title around. I think
Matt Morgan is a little bit better choice, and so
is Samo Joe than mister Aderson. I think Adison can
be kind of the righty piper type. He doesn't need

(02:44:39):
a title true.

Speaker 11 (02:44:41):
Yeah, you know, I have a feeling that that's what
they're going to build to next is Anderson Hardy. I
think there's only so many more matches you can have
with Morgan and Jeff Hardy when you're not going to
do a title change anyway, So it's probably the right
move to make. But yeah, I think and He would
be a good twinter. It's almost a shame that they
made it so one sided where you know he had

(02:45:02):
to be against Immortal and they couldn't keep that mystery
alive a little bit longer to you know who he's
really aligned with.

Speaker 1 (02:45:10):
Well, Jason, I think we set a record or came
closer for the VP after show. So we'll wrap up
on that note and sign off. Sign up for the
week of the Pleasure is.

Speaker 11 (02:45:18):
Always absolutely looking forward to next week.

Speaker 1 (02:45:21):
Sounds good. Thanks everybody for listening to us on behalf
of Jason Powell. This is Way Keller signing up if

(02:45:47):
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When you check out on our signup form pw Torch
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(02:46:30):
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Speaker 25 (02:46:41):
Searching for more great pro wrestling talk, then join me
Jason Powell host them the three weekly Pro Wrestling Boom Podcast.
Each week you'll hear the latest news and analysis from
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(02:47:03):
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