15 YRS AGO LIVECASTS: Cornette-Mark Madden rivalry, Bruce Prichard's history, TNA's lack of heel/face dynamic, Jersey Shore-TNA, Matt Hardy

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 2 (01:06):
Now, PW Torch and Spreaker bring you the Wade Keller
Pro Wrestling Podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:16):
On Today's Way Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast On Saturday October eighteenth,
twenty twenty five. We're jumping back fifteen years to the
October fourteenth and fifteenth, twenty ten episodes of the PW
Torch Live Cast. First up, i wad Keller was joined
by Progressing Torch columnist Pat McNeil to take live calls
for an hour plus. Topics included the Jim Cornette Mark
Madden rivalry, Bruce Pritchard's history, TNA's lack of strict face

(01:38):
heel definition, TNA's Jersey shorecross promotion, Gail Kim and Mickey James,
shocking angles, and more an eclectic mix of topics there
and then in the previously VP exclusive after show, we
talked about possible big changes WWE could initiate in the
decline of business. And then the October fifteenth, twenty ten
episode features James Caldwell hosting with Greg Parks, who will

(01:59):
be on as co host after aw wrestled Dream Tonight
with Brandon Mclair on the PW Towards Daily Cast, so
be sure you're checking that out, and they talked about
impact in depth, key segments and overall thoughts on the
latest episode, also impact viewership numbers that came in right
before they went live, Matt Hardy's release, and why WW
finally released him his future likely in TNA. One missing

(02:22):
element from Impact with a brief focus on Kurt Angle's retirement,
Jenny versus Charmel reference why the no wrestling beginning to
Impact wasn't a bad concept but just bad execution. Plus
John Cena versus Nexus and what WWB could do with
that Angle going forward, Plus more phone calls on a
variety of other topics. So loaded back to back shows

(02:43):
here and it is the Way Keller Prosing Podcast for Saturday,
October eighteenth, twenty twenty five. Here we go.

Speaker 3 (02:50):
Not welcome to hear them Peter and new Sorts live chats.

Speaker 1 (03:07):
This is PROG Wrestling Tords newsletter editor Wade Keller. And
I thought I was gonna be joined by Pat Neil today,
That's why I'm a minute or too late, but didn't
have wasn't able to get a hold of him or
meet up with him here on the show, so maybe
he'll be calling in. In fact, he's calling the other
line right now, so anyway, sorry for the technical issue.
Hopefully Pat, you can just call in on the on

(03:28):
the caller line since the show's already in progress. All right,
I want to take a lot of calls today We've
got a lot of things in the news that we
didn't really have time to explore in the last couple
episodes because we had packed phone lines and a lot
of things to talk about. So rather than since I'm
flying solo today, rather than start off with a commentary,
let's just go to phone calls and begin with Eric

(03:49):
code two eight one to wait one. Thanks for calling.
Please state your name and where you're from.

Speaker 4 (03:54):
Hey, Wade's jan and Houston.

Speaker 5 (03:55):
How are you doing today?

Speaker 6 (03:56):
Good?

Speaker 1 (03:57):
Jay, Good, hear from you. What's going on?

Speaker 5 (03:59):
I have a question about a few year fellow columnists. Now,
I've heard the name Mark Madden in the industry within
the past year, and I recently found out that he
was a columnist.

Speaker 7 (04:14):
Under you, and I heard Jim Cornett talking about him
and just bashing the guy, and I was like, geez,
what's Cornet's problem? And then I heard this interview with
Mark Madden from last year when Cornett was still with
TNA and Madden was just ripping in the TNAX, but
he was saying very legitimate things, and I was on, like,
what's the heat between what one between Cornet and Madden

(04:36):
and Cornet and Bruce Because Cornet and Bruce. They seem
like they have such similar ideals and they get so
frustrated and they both entertained so much whenever.

Speaker 8 (04:47):
They go off from the industry.

Speaker 5 (04:49):
So can you explain the backstory behind that?

Speaker 1 (04:52):
Yeah, well, I mean the Cornet situation, the Bruce situation
or I'm sorry, the Madden Cornett relationship and the Mitchell
Matt Cornett re relationship are kind of different. The hostility
from Cornett aimed at Mitchell comes from the Torch in general,
and the articles that both Bruce and I wrote about

(05:12):
Smoky Mountain Wrestling seventeen years ago, and some of the
things that some of the promoting tactics that were used
that had some racial elements to it, the variety of
other things that we wrote there were critical of. And
Cornett had been kind of treated as a darling of
the sheets, the darling of the newsletters and the wrestling
media up until that point, but once he instead of
complaining about Jim Heard or Jim Crockett or Dusty Rose's booking,

(05:35):
once he became the boss and the scrutiny was aimed
at him as the guy making the decisions rather than
sympathy and him being kind of the person who was
speaking from inside what people on the outside were feeling
in terms of the dumb things Jim Herd was doing.
That kind of changed the dynamic, and Cornett reacted to

(05:55):
it in a way that was different than I think
a lot of us probably anticipated. And that grudge kind
of I mean, Cornett is a type of personality where
when there's a grudge there and he has negative personal
feelings about somebody, he carries it with them for you know,
pretty much forever, as far as I can tell. With Madden,
it's with Mark and Jim are very similar people in
that sense that you're either on there on the left

(06:17):
side of their ledger or the right side of the ledger,
and there's no there's not really a middle ground. And
so Madden did start writing for The Torch back in
the early nineties, and he was a columnist around the
same He joined after Bruce Mitchell did, but they were
both two of the top columnists at The Torch for
several years together, rotating on the cover page, and marketed

(06:38):
up going and working for ww after that doing their
nine hundred hotline, and then of course ended up co
host and Nitro, and then after that he's been. We
actually did a torch talk with him after w W
were out of business and are on good terms. He
helped He joined Bruce and me for the Bruce Mitchell
audio show several years back. So, I mean, and Bruce
and Mark are still friends and I think talk quite

(06:59):
right regularly. But Mark has, uh you know, has that
that I don't. I'm trying to find a nice neutral
way to put it. But if he has a grudge
against you, he holds it. So basically it's two stubborn,
strong willed people butting heads and Mark is an instigator
and Cornett is it reacts to instigation, So so that's

(07:20):
how that happens. So that that's that's kind of the
nutshell overview of it.

Speaker 9 (07:25):
Wow wow, Yeah.

Speaker 4 (07:27):
I was just very curious about that insight because I
read the review Mark the Jiam print you shoot.

Speaker 8 (07:32):
And I'm like, you went at gruth, but also wanted
to know what what was your opinion of the gym
punt rebooking the Invasion ud Now. I was thought he
had great.

Speaker 4 (07:43):
Ideas that the way he would have rebooked it garbage.
I'm sorry, I don't think you can take criticism, but
that was got awful I didn't.

Speaker 1 (07:53):
To be fair to Cornett, I didn't. I only heard
bullet points on it. I wasn't blown away by the
rebooking of it. I think there's the problem with rebooking
anything is it takes away some There's a level of
special knowledge that you have from being on the inside.
You know about people's contracts, You know about if somebody

(08:14):
has personal problems, drug problems, drinking problems, major attitude, have
trouble dealing with authority issues, if they have a reputation.
That just disturbs you when it comes to how they
treat women outside the ring, and you think that you
just you just kind of want to use them up
and and and when their contract expires, let them go

(08:34):
or yeah. I mean like there's so many intangibles, and
you know that's just that's just a small number of
them that we as fans on the outside might look
and go, Hey, I like that guy. I think he
deserves a push. Why aren't they pushing him? And sometimes
a booker promoter has many reasons. So from a pure
fantasy booking standpoint, Cornett knows firsthand more than anyone that
you can't create an ideal situation and expect everybody to

(08:55):
show up on time, with a clear head, stay injury free,
be willing to go along with what you say. So
it's so difficult to look back in time and say
this would have worked, and here's what we would have done.
That said, in a general sense, I very much disagree
with the the what seems convention, the conventional wisdom that

(09:16):
wcw on once the brand name and some scraps were acquired.

Speaker 10 (09:22):
By WWE, that WWE blew it and it was one
of the biggest blown opportunities ever. I just think the
invasion WW invading WWE, or you know, doing something with
that would have been efactive.

Speaker 1 (09:36):
Three or four years earlier. But let's be honest, if
we if we truly put ourselves back in the time
machine and remember what we thought at WW at that point,
and think about their market share, and think about the
talent that they had that destroyed that company. Did WWE,
which was still doing really good business, want to poison
the water and completely change what was a pretty good

(09:56):
thing they had going with an incredibly deep talent roster
by bringing in these lew people that destroy WSW pay
them the salaries that WW is paying them with limited dates.
So that they wouldn't have to go on the road
to house shows to earn that money like the core
top WWU guys were doing just for the sake of
the so called angle of you know, the biggest angle ever.

(10:18):
It's just the logistics of it were so complicated that
I can understand this man saying, you know, what we're
doing really well right now. Maybe this invasion angle would
help us do better, but there's at least an equal
chance that it would make us do much worse, that
it would completely disrupt the chemistry in the locker room.
And so I mean, I just don't I don't know
that when you do the mask and then you look

(10:41):
at the personalities involved, that it was a lost opportunity.
I'm not sure that McMahon wasn't wise, especially looking at
some of the people he acquired in the buyout and
how limited, shockingly limited they were in terms of their
aptitude compared to average WWE mid Carter. They just didn't
fit the ww MISS seem very well. So I can't
speak I don't want to speak real specifically Corne because

(11:03):
I have to actually experience his whole his whole layout
of what he would have done. But Jay real quick.
What is it that you didn't like about what he
did or what he.

Speaker 8 (11:11):
Proposed, making Terry Flunk the central point.

Speaker 1 (11:16):
Yeah, well Cornett certainly likes Funk.

Speaker 8 (11:20):
Yeah, and what you said, a lot of guys not
really being up speed shot out the buff bag oil.

Speaker 1 (11:27):
I know, I know, I mean I kind of I
went off on a little bit of a tangent just
in that you know, this, this this unchallenged notion that
it was a blown opportunity by McMahon and that it
was Dusty Roads screwing over the bill, you know, the
the UWF talent, the Mid South talent back when WW
acquired the UWF. It's just it's just isn't the same thing.
I mean, WW is a shell of its former self,

(11:48):
bloated contracts that Vince wouldn't want to take on, and
it was it was older talent that was very used
to showing up on Monday and phoning it in and
then not having to work until the next Monday, and
that's what their contracts had, and they just it would
have blown to smithereens his salary structure and the morale
of that locker room to bring people in who couldn't work.

(12:10):
You know who had tremendous limitations and we're going to
work on the road and make them the central focus
of television. It goes against everything we talk about. Don't
push people on TV if you're in the house show business,
who aren't going to be able to go to house shows?
Cool day, Thanks for the call, appreciate it. Let's move
on to the next call and go to air code

(12:30):
five O five. Please stay your name and where you're from? Hey?

Speaker 11 (12:33):
Wayne, how you doing this?

Speaker 12 (12:34):
Soun Junie from New Mexico?

Speaker 1 (12:36):
Hey, Benny, I'm doing good.

Speaker 13 (12:37):
Thanks for calling.

Speaker 1 (12:37):
What's on your mind?

Speaker 14 (12:38):
Hey?

Speaker 12 (12:39):
Just two questions. My first question, Tia Bruce Pritchard being
in TNA, Now, what do you see the pros and
cons of him being there? And what do you think
he can contribute that? And maybe if you can give
me some high bullet points that he did at WWE,
and what do you think he can do in TNA.

Speaker 15 (12:57):
And that's my first question.

Speaker 1 (12:59):
You know, I've heard mixed mixed opinions on this. Jason
Powell and the in his page two Buzz column that
he does for the Progressing Torture Newsletter wrote about this
too that there's some mixed feelings and some contradictory feelings
on Prichard. Pritchard and w w A was known as
as the ultimate yes man corporate kiss ass. You know,
I mean, you know, it was just it was it

(13:19):
was almost comical, you know that he was the guy
who felt like, just make vincoc Man feel like a
million dollars every second, no matter what he does, and
and protect your job that way. And and there were
people didn't trust him, and and people were leary of him.
But Bruce Pritchard and and I commented on this, I
believed last last week or several days ago at least
in a VP Keller hotline that one thing that bring

(13:43):
Bruce Richard brings the TNA is is experienced in the
trenches in w w A for a very long time.
And he wrote and formatted a lot of w W'S
TV shows in the nineties before the boom period and
the and he under stands and has experience with pacing.
He's been around Kevin Dunn and bisic Man and their

(14:05):
philosophy of how to focus on two or three key
things so that by the end of the program eighty
percent of the content that is remembered has to do
with two or three key storylines, because ultimately those are
what draw and making sure that the other twenty percent
is just kind of, you know, it's kind of scraps,
it's kind of you know, it's kind of filler. It
doesn't mean that you don't treat it serious people, but

(14:26):
you don't want to over just overburden people with too
much to think about. And that's one of the flaws
that Nampact has had. And so if if I look
at the optimistic side, if Pritchard comes in and looks
at these contracts, I'm sorry, looks at these scripts and says, hey,
you know what, I think we can actually get more
by doing less, and here's a suggestion that can work.

(14:47):
Bruce Pritchard is used to playing up to the boss
and kind of knowing his place and trying to trying
to have an influence while not rocking the boat too much.
You know, he's not a Jim Corre in that sense.
So maybe on the right side, maybe because of that experience,
he'll add something. I don't think he's a booker. He's
not like an idea person that I think was a

(15:09):
go to person for Vinsic Man, but he was somebody
who kind of did some of the dirty work and
formatting and paytent. You can support us on Patreon and
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(15:31):
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Speaker 12 (15:47):
Good good, well, thank you for that clarification. I just
try to get some information on him as far as
what exactly he did, and it was just real vague
on his description of an employee.

Speaker 11 (15:56):
Oor a ww. My second question is.

Speaker 12 (16:00):
It has to do with it with the day angle.
As I've listened to your hotlines and you kind of
shed some light on a little bit. Now I've been
hearing that they're trying to get more of the the
younger guys, the pre seven PNA town like a j
Staal Samoa Joe into the mix to kind of bring
them to the forefront and kind of make them his name.

(16:20):
But I guess my question here is that rehashing all
these old angles, do you think that with having Jeff
Hardy heel can bring something to the table a little
different from what they did back then, or do you
think it's going to be pretty much the same foundation
of that angle back in ninety six and bring it
to twenty ten.

Speaker 11 (16:39):
What are your thoughts on that.

Speaker 1 (16:41):
And the I don't I think when we talk about
TNA homegrown people or people who've been around a long
time and how to reframe them. I don't know if
this gets exactly your question, but when we look at
what they did last Sunday, it looks like another fact
action that's reshuffling a lot of the same people doing

(17:03):
a similar angle that was great, that was very successful
with the nWo, not as successful with the main event Mafia.
But there's this pattern here of going back to the
greatest hits and inserting different people into it. And you know, yesterday,
again getting off track from a question a little bit,
I'll try to wine back to it. Jim Ross mentioned
somebody asked him to compare AJ Styles and Shawn Michaels

(17:24):
as in ring workers or as you know, overall wrestlers,
and Jim Ross said, no flight to AJ Styles, But
Seawn Michaels was better at in his prime than AJ
is in his prime. And I agree with that because
I think Sean Michaels had more consistency to his character.
He knew who he was, and he was a more
marketable personality. And TNA has kind of screwed up AJ
by turning him and portraying him in so many different ways.

(17:46):
He's been portrayed, you know, with the Rick Flair junior thing.
I mean you just look at that and you just
go who thought that was a good idea? Who thought
Aj Styles wearing a Rick Flair robe would look like
anything but dress up day with a twelve year old
putting on dad's robe and pretending to be a wrestler.
It just it doesn't fit his personality when he you know,
when they were visiting him at home with the hillbilly
family and he was playing the dumb Jason Stackhouse type

(18:08):
character minus fifteen IQ points, that didn't work. You know,
when AJ Styles is an underdog, an underdog superman kind
of I kind of look at him as the in
the Spider Man movies. He kind of had that that
feeling of an unassuming guy who could blend in, but
once he stepped into the ring, he becomes a superhero.

(18:29):
And I always thought that was the best way to
portray him as a as a good hearted, average everyday
guy who people don't take real seriously, and then when
he gets in the ring, he shocks the hell out
of him with what he does. And you can add
a little bit of a of a trigger temper which
fits his real personality which he has, and the intensity
and the legit toughness, and I think really market him

(18:50):
that way. But there's there's only so many things you
can There's only so many times you can turn somebody
to make up for bad booking or a lack of
ability to recognize what an individual strengths are to the
point where you just watered them down overall, where nobody
takes them seriously as a good guy or a bad guy,
or part of a faction or part of a tag
team or something else. Let me let me go back

(19:12):
to you, Vinie and just ask you to reclarify your
question and based on what I just said, and then
I'll try to hone in on it all right, right.

Speaker 12 (19:18):
Well, basically my question is, and do you think that
the angle And it's hard because we haven't seen what's
going to transpiate tonight, but initially with them putting certain
players in place, do you think to distinguish the differentiation
between the heels and the faces are going to benefit

(19:39):
with this angle, because that's the one big thing TNA
has been kind of lacking is you don't know who's
a heel, you don't know who's the big price. So
I think if they have consistent pressure on that say hey,
you know, these guys are the bad guys, these guys
are the good guys, and really make that change, do
you think it would work for them?

Speaker 2 (19:55):
Well?

Speaker 1 (19:56):
I think it would work for them. I just don't
have faith that they understand how to do that, nor
do I believe they believe it's important to do that.
It would take a great philosophical change for them to
think going back to just the last few weeks in
the way that they've portrayed fortune, you know, I mean,
it's just there to their target demographic, having a bunch
of guys backstage doing drinking contests and laughing uproariously and

(20:19):
then having you know, Christy Hammy, who's supposed to be
this interviewer who gets offended at people who are offensive.
Is she's not a heel to have her smiling at
Rick Flair like Hillary Clint used to look at Joe Clinton,
I mean looking up at him and just smile like
I can't wait to rip your clothes off as soon
as the show is over. I mean, they don't know
how to portray heals or they're slowly turning them babyface.

(20:39):
And again we're going to start seeing some stuff the
next couple weeks on impact with fortune and how they
get in the mix. But I don't really think TNA
believes philosophically at the core. I don't think Jeff, Jared,
Dixie Carter, Vince Russo, you name them, believe in the
idea that you should have portray somebody in a way
that fans admire and portray somebody else in a way
where you can't wait to see them get their ass kicked.
I don't think they believe that. I think it's ridiculous

(21:01):
that they don't believe it. It's stuck in There was a
very special moment in time that was very much the
exception to all storytelling in the history of pro wrestling
and really all storytelling in general, and that was the
late nineties and the Steve Boston character. He acted very yelish,
but vincic Mann was even worse, and so it brought
in the attitude era where you could break the rules

(21:22):
and be anti authority, and it worked because Vince McMahon
was the authority figure. And it was only the reason
that worked is vincac Mann for decades had been on
television as this straight laced announcer and everybody knew he
was a head of the company, and after two decades
of kind of hiding it and being cloy about it,
he came all out and snapped, entered heel and was
a fantastic kill character. And then you contrasted that with

(21:45):
perhaps the greatest wrestling character of all times, Stone called
Steve Austin. That's an extraordinary circumstance that allows you to
break from the typical rules. Vince Russo still to this
day doesn't understand that that was a very special circumstance,
an exception to the rule, extraordinary exception to the rule,
and that to draw money you today, You've got to
take your characters and give them a constitution that drives

(22:07):
their actions. And you have to have a core set
of you know, just think about a baseball card or
or a three by five note card. You would write down,
here's what inspires them and drives them, and here's their
more values, and here's things they will or won't do
to win or you know, and and then have kind
of that that card in your head that drives how
you book the characters. And when you want to poperating,

(22:28):
which doesn't happen anymore anyway, but when you want to poperating,
you don't turn someone that's shortsighted. That's that's like cashing
in your irara, because you really want to go from
a forty two inch TV to a fifty inch TV.
You know, it's just stupid. And so you know that
that's why I don't have faith that they're that they're
going to do it. But let's see tonight's show, because
I mean, they can always have a change of heart

(22:49):
or somebody can always explain things in a way that
kind of clicks. And also in the booking team goes, hey, yeah,
I might as well try that, and so I'm open
minded to it. I just don't have face based on
my history that it'll happen.

Speaker 11 (22:59):
Yeah, I agree with you.

Speaker 12 (23:00):
Wait, I just think it's it's just time to kind
of just go back to the basics. As you said,
it doesn't seem too hard to differentiate it. And before
I go, have you had a chance to see the
RF video I guess a little trailer.

Speaker 11 (23:13):
Of Kevin Nash's shoot interview.

Speaker 15 (23:14):
Have you seen that?

Speaker 1 (23:15):
No? I haven't.

Speaker 11 (23:17):
Oh, okay, I'm gonna hopefully.

Speaker 12 (23:19):
Hear in about fifteen minutes. I'll try to pish an
email to it to the link. But very very interesting
on his comments about Paul Himan and RVD, kind of
shocking and kind of goes back to what you guys
had report a couple of weeks ago with the you know,
rvd's blog and what he was saying about the older
team And guess it was very very interesting. But thank
you for taking my call, and have a good day
and speak to you soon there.

Speaker 1 (23:40):
Appreciate it. Thanks, Benny. Little transition into a quick plug.
I just put up this afternoon the back issue from
two thousand and five to the Pros and Towrs that
features the continuation of my I think it was seven
hours six seven hour, eight hour interview with Kevin Nash
from five years ago, and we run it in about
twenty minute installments, transcribe word for word in the Torch

(24:02):
Newsletter back issues, and so those are getting republished right now,
first time ever available in PDF format online, and so
I encourage you, if you're a VFPME ever check that out.
And if you're not a v TAM member and you
want to read our it's still talked about today as
one of the best torchtoks ever and one of the
best wrestling interviews ever. Nash really had never done a
long form interview before. All his stories were fresh, and

(24:22):
he addressed a lot of the things that that people
are critical of to this day regarding Kevin Nash and
the way that he conducted himself in WW. And I
challenged him with a lot of different situations that occurred
in WW, and he for the first time went on
record giving his defense or in some cases apologizing and saying, yeah,
I was an asshole, and that was a different time

(24:42):
and I was a different person. So that interview is
currently running right now. We're putting up a new installment
of and every Wednesday or Thursday midweek as a back
issue PDF. If you're not a VIP member you want
to and you're interested in it, the place to go
to get details on all the benefits that come with
the membership and the pricing is PW torch dot com
flash Go v I P Let's now go to area

(25:04):
code eight oh four. Our special co host for the show,
Pat McNeil. Pat, Sorry about that miscommunication.

Speaker 16 (25:10):
Glad to have you on the show now, Yes, thanks,
I'm sorry. Also, I had a I had an argument
with the conference call interface, so that probably wasn't there
when he went to grab me about twenty five minutes ago. Okay,
so I listened to the first part of the show,
waves wrong about the w CW invasion angle for all
of you at home, and uh we're and uh well

(25:30):
we'll take calls.

Speaker 1 (25:32):
Pat. No, Pat, make you make your case because.

Speaker 16 (25:36):
Okay, this this was the This was the biggest angle, yeah,
that that you were going to get. It was bigger
even than the Crockett and UWF angles typically because you know,
this was the these were the two last big promotions
and one is gobbling up the other. So they they
did need to do an angle about that, you know,
locker room chemistry. Well that's you know, that's nice, But

(25:57):
I've never known in mcman's to throw away one hundreds
of millions of the locker room chemistry, you know, Ibby, there
were some problems. I I just thought, instead of doing
it the way that they ended up doing it, which is,
you know, the one they created a brand split so
they could try to create their own own version of
the WWF w CW war. I just thought it would
have been a They had the opening to launch w

(26:19):
CW and they they decided not to take it because
they weren't patient on us.

Speaker 1 (26:26):
And specifically speaking, I see, I'm not as willing to
discount locker room chemistry as you are. It seems you're
doing that rather flippantly. And and I think a company
that's making the type of money WW is making with
the type of stars that they had in the system
in place that had been that had been successful and
won and part of the reason they won the battle
over WW was the fact that they kept their superstars

(26:49):
in their top stars in a position where they had
incentives to earn their money. And WW had a lot
of huge bloated contracts and it would have been a
huge slap in the face and disrupted something that was
working very well for them to say, yeah, come on in,
you know, and you can list the top stars who
weren't part of the buyout because their contracts were ridiculous

(27:10):
and they weren't they weren't gonna workhouse shows. So you're saying, yeah,
come on in for two point five million dollars for
the next two years, or come in for three million
dollars for the next two years, but work one third the dates,
and you actually don't know how to work. And you
used to showing up on Mondays and phoning it in,
and then to build to disrupt everything that they were doing,
to build around a stripped down, damaged brand that had

(27:32):
had become a laughing stock. And I think physic Man
could rebuild that. I mean, I'm not saying he did
a good job with what he tried to do. I'm
just saying I don't think he left hundreds of millions
of dollars on the table. And I haven't yet to
hear a case made specifically that doesn't just sound like
fantasy dream booking that that is unrealistic and doesn't take
into account the realities of that locker room chemistry that
you kind of blew off.

Speaker 16 (27:53):
Well, okay, the locker room chemistry. They would have had
to rebuild WSW to a certain degree, yes, because the
was nothing by the time it was there. The only
good news they had is nobody was watching the WSW
that was put on for the last couple of years,
so that so they could immediately forget that. I mean,
and second of all, the w CW shows would have

(28:14):
been ww shows taking place on their own with a
different locker room. I mean, they would have they would
have had to create a second brand.

Speaker 1 (28:23):
But the amount of money and you know, and you
know what.

Speaker 16 (28:26):
If I heard the stories about guys like Bob Holly
and and and John Layfield and a few and you
know a few of the other bigger ww wrestlers complaining
that you know that we were loyal and we and
we did all this work, and you're bringing in the
w CW guys and treating like bigger stars. Well generally,
you know, they were bigger stars. It's kind of like

(28:47):
TNA that they weren't bigger stars right at that moment,
but they had the potential to be bigger stars. And secondly,
you know, vinzick Man was pretty much the only employer
in professional wrestling in two thousand and one, and he
could have done whatever he wanted to and made it
sick if he was serious about establishing a second brand.
And that was the that was the opportunity to do
what they wanted. That was the opportunity to have a

(29:10):
WWS and have a WCW and get to God help us,
twenty pay per views a year, which was the original plan.
So they I mean, and and the fact that they
were and they screwed it up for a number of reasons.
They screwed it up because they were errant. They screwed
it up because they forgot that they had an exclusive
contract with Viacom and went shopping around the w CW
name that they just bought without remembering that they couldn't

(29:30):
do that, among their other problems, and they had and
they didn't keep the best brefflers. And they put buff
bage on Booker t on a broad Maine event, and
we're surprised when people crapt on it.

Speaker 1 (29:43):
Yeah, yeah, Well, Pat, I'm not going to say wrong
because it's subjective, just as I don't think Bruce should
have said at the beginning of the b at the
Hotline on Sunday that we were wrong in giving a
mile thumps up to the pay per view, But I
will say I still disagree with you, Okay.

Speaker 16 (29:55):
And I still disagree with you. I think I don't
think you're wrong. I think you're mistaken.

Speaker 1 (30:00):
Fair enough, fair enough.

Speaker 17 (30:03):
Need an extra dose of positivity in your wrestling podcasts.
Will come join me Alan frel Over in the Progress
Paradise at Peterboo Torch VIP as we mask on the
bright side of wrestling and focus on some of the
great matches and shows from around the world, be it
the US, Japan, Europe or Mexico. There's always a place

(30:24):
for wrestlings past in the Paradise too, and we've done
fun historical shows such as the We Love Liger series
celebrating the glorious career of Jusian Thunderliger and our eye
was there when shows where our guests will join me
to talk about a classic bout that they were in
attendance for. We love variety and you can expect lots
of it at the Progress Paradise. Detailed pwof Torch VIP

(30:46):
subscription information and a list of all the VIP benefits
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the paradise.

Speaker 1 (31:09):
Let's let's keep going through phone calls here and go
to Eric go four one five, four on five things
for colling, we stay to your name and where you're from.

Speaker 4 (31:16):
What's going on?

Speaker 8 (31:17):
Guys?

Speaker 18 (31:18):
John Sis from San Francisco?

Speaker 1 (31:21):
For me, what's up?

Speaker 18 (31:22):
I just want to go on ahead and ask you
guys a quick question and what is to deal with
Vince McMahon like pretty much hand picking the wrestlers who
get to go on radio shows and like certain radio
shows like if like he usually has his performers, you know,
do interviews like on Between the Ropes or you know,

(31:45):
like kind of stations that are you know, pretty.

Speaker 19 (31:49):
Much out there. But then he doesn't allow you know,
like somebody to go on you guys show if you
guys wanted to interview or PWR or something like that.
Just wondering like what is the great like does he
have a personal vendebt against you guys? And Dave Molsa
or is it just that's just how it's always been.

Speaker 1 (32:08):
I haven't been turned down for a WWE interview in years,
because I any interview I've asked for I've gotten. But
this show is in an interview format, so so we
don't do it. But that said, I'm not part of
the reason. Besides wanting to do a topical Carmon show
with analysts and in order to do what we do,

(32:28):
I think it's realistic to think that some of our
commentary would rub WW the wrong way. And whatever honeymoon
period there was where they were supplying us so to
speak with talent to help help our show and to
help publicize their product, I don't think it would last
very long. I just you know, you know vinsic Man
is when I've got a tour of Titan Tower shortly

(32:49):
after it opened, way back when he gave a speech
to me and several other wrestling reporters at the time saying,
you know, you know, so one hand washes the other.
You know, we can scratch you others back. You exist
because we'd thrive and when we thrive, you do better.
And he was trying to give us a speech of
you know, kind of we're we're going to co opt ourselves,
you know a little bit. And it's just not something

(33:10):
I've ever been interested in. I'd rather go do something
else in life then be a kind of a pipe
organ in disguise for the wrestling promotions. I cover it.
It's just not me. So so I don't ask, so
that in all likelihood I don't have to hear no.
But that's not to say they would say no. But
I think if we were, if this show was dependent

(33:30):
on its success, if it's the number one wrestling show
on iTunes, it's in the top seventy five of all shows,
and that if you strip away the sixty ESPN shows
were like, you know, top fifteen or top twenty in
the entire world on sports podcasts doing what we do
without guests, and I like that. I take pride in that.
And it's because we've got I think, good analysts and
in good callers, and we're a news driven show. So

(33:52):
I think our show wouldn't be as good if we
felt like, oh, if I say that about that wrestler,
maybe ww we won't let us have that wrestler on
next week. And and so I think we kind of
have just an understanding in a sense as for other shows,
if you're on satellite or radio, it's kind of old
school thinking. But if you're on if you're on actual
radio and not just the internet, WWE tends to favor you.

(34:14):
If you have a connection to a corporate media entity,
WWE tends to favor you. If you if you're FanHouse
and you're connected to AOL, you're legit and you're big
enough in their eyes to to supply interviews for And
then of course he's gonna pick and choose media sources
that he think thinks are either relatively friendly or can
help him. It's just it's just the way that business works,

(34:35):
and it's probably worse than it's ever been in certain
ways in that regard. I think, not just in wrestling,
but I think just across all all sports and politics.
So I've had your thoughts on that.

Speaker 16 (34:47):
No, I understand what you're saying, And yeah, I mean
it would be nice to be able to to talk
to ww wrestlers and yeah, maybe maybe do a short
interview with them and put them on the shelve people
talking to him. But you know, Vince McMahon has this
opinion that every dollar made in the wrestling business should

(35:07):
belong to him. So he sees sites like the torch
As as competition, which is why for a while would
they had a news section on ww dot com to
attempts to compete with us. So, I mean, what plus
when plus when you have Let's say that John Cena
was on the live cast and you know, we did
and we did our normal show and Wade said the
things about WWE, you know, about ww's business, it didn't

(35:30):
exactly match the party line. Then people would get the
impression that John Cena endorses what Wade Keller is saying
about WWE, and that would be all wrong as far
as mission McMahon listens to.

Speaker 1 (35:41):
So there you go, Yeah, yeah, any follow Jonathan Yeah.

Speaker 19 (35:46):
About GNA and Jeff Hardy, do you think he should
be given the manager being a heel because I mean,
Jeff Party can't speak for nothing unless he's unless he's
on shrooms or something and he's jugged out. You finally
got a better conversation with a name. But you know,
but he's really like his character is kind of jigging
towards the good for some strange reasons. With all the

(36:08):
makeup and stuff and the kids. But how is he
going to get over as a heel without a manager,
without somebody beats his mouthpiece and he could go out.

Speaker 18 (36:16):
There and you know, do do to Jeff Hardy moves,
which isn't going to get over because there's more his
move sets.

Speaker 19 (36:22):
Of her, you know, more family friendly.

Speaker 1 (36:25):
I guess, good good questions, Pat, what do you think?
I disagree with you?

Speaker 16 (36:31):
He already has two managers. He has one named Hulk
Hogan and another named Derek Bishof, And if they want
to go that way, he potentially has a third one
name Jeff Jarrick.

Speaker 1 (36:41):
Yeah, I mean yeah, I think I think the Hardy
We talked about this week, Hardy's move set. It's going
to be hard for fans to boot. I mean, I
you know, fans don't boo great athletes doing amazing things
in the ring. It's just tough. It's it's it's tough
to get people to boo you doing that unless there's
not even an Unless it just doesn't work, Pat, can
you think of a wrestler who succeeded as a heel

(37:03):
who was a level above other wrestlers when it came
to their their charisma and their and their dazzling athletic system.
I mean, you couldn't make Evanborney heel right now.

Speaker 16 (37:14):
Well, uh, well, since since you gave me the set
up line, let me take you back to I think
it was nineteen ninety five in ECW where Mick Foley
turned heel, and the way he made it stick was
he didn't do any of those moves. You know, he
became the biggest uh, he became the biggest coward, runaway whatever, whatever,

(37:34):
whatever you want to call it, and change his personality.
And I think if you really want the Jeff Hardy
thing to do, that's what you have to do. He
starts to go up to the top rope and says, nah,
you know he's done. Does something else he doesn't, you know,
he said, maybe doesn't paint his face anymore. I mean
he I mean, he doesn't dress that way anymore. That's
what you'd have to do, And that, of course would

(37:54):
be a lot of the purpose of turning Jeff Hardy
heel in the first place.

Speaker 1 (37:58):
That's the thing. I mean, you know, you take you
strip away Jeff Hardy's top assets in order to make
him a heel. Well, you know, then you're just going
on his name and reputation and saying, Jeff Hardy's a heel.
It's amazing. But everything you loved about him doesn't exist anymore,
you know, everything that made him interesting doesn't exist anymore.
Maybe he'll surprise I mean, you know again, I am
giving my opinion based on what I've seen in the past.

(38:20):
Let's see what happens. I'm very open minded to see
him handed a microphone, and he might have all kinds
of vile stored up inside of him. And maybe the
reason he's been a bad promo is he doesn't want
to give a babyface promo. But deep down inside void,
does he have things to say to the fans that
aren't that are negative, And maybe he'll blow us away.
And I'm open, I'm open to that. But I hope
management didn't just kind of wonder if he's good at

(38:42):
being a heel, but had a pretty good game plan
in mind, and they didn't just turn a heal for
the quote shock value of it, because after the shock
value wears off, you're stuck with this top Babyface merchandise
seller who now is cast in a way that the
fans are just gonna not buy into. So that's that's
the potential of the Jonathan anything else.

Speaker 19 (39:03):
Yeah, I think you know, I think RVD would have
been a better would have been the better heel because
he could cut a heel promo better than Jeff Hardy.
But I never heard Jeff Party actually cut a heel
cut a hell promo before. So well, we could just
see what happens. And anytime you could hit you know,
RVD in the face with a belt is okay.

Speaker 11 (39:22):
We'll be.

Speaker 1 (39:24):
Thanks Log for the call. Let's keep Rosa calls. We're
just past halfway mark of the show. If you want
to call in, and I think we've got three people
on hold, so you can be fourth in line. The
number is six four six seven to one nine A
two eight. I'm Wade Keller, editor and publisher of the
Progressing Torch newsletter and pw Torch dot Com. Joined today Thursday,
October fourteenth, twenty ten by Pat McNeil, also Pro Wrestling

(39:46):
Torch columnist. If you're listening to us live on Blogtalker
Radio dot com Slash Pro Dash Wrestling Dash Torch, don't
forget you can subscribe to this podcast or this live
cast in i Tunes and have it downloaded to your
computer in your iPod or your smartphone regularly on a
regular basis. Just go to iTunes and do a search

(40:07):
for PW Torch. And if you're listening to us through iTunes,
I know a lot of you find us in iTunes.
The place to listen to us live and participate either
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late today but it's open now. The place to are
either participating in the chatroom or by calling in live
to the show is logtok radio dot com Slash Pro
Dash Wrestling Dash Torch and we are on from five

(40:32):
thirty to six thirty Eastern Tuesday through Friday, and on
Mondays we're on in the hour preceding Raw. All right,
back to the phone lines. That's four one five, So
now we go to two one o two one oh.
Thanks for calling. Please state your name and where you're from.

Speaker 2 (40:47):
Hey guys, it's just Cameron from Austin, Texas.

Speaker 11 (40:51):
I'm sorry, Cameron.

Speaker 1 (40:53):
Cameron, Cameron Cool, Thanks Cameron. What's up?

Speaker 20 (40:56):
Okay?

Speaker 21 (40:57):
I just kind of wanted to talk about us one
on his here today with the shore angles that they.

Speaker 22 (41:02):
Got going on, you know, as far as Vince Russo goes, you.

Speaker 2 (41:07):
Know, whether he's good or bad at what he does.

Speaker 4 (41:10):
I think one thing you.

Speaker 22 (41:11):
Can't question is the guy is not cool, not cool
to the point where the angles that he comes up
with just hard things that can keep your interest. I
guess my biggest problem with the whole shore, even though
it's them trying to cash in on something they clearly
don't get, it comes on at the.

Speaker 21 (41:26):
Same time as their show does.

Speaker 2 (41:28):
It's the same time slot.

Speaker 23 (41:30):
The bild character off a show to where if you
give attention to that character, it's gonna make people more
interested in that show, not what you're doing with the character.

Speaker 14 (41:39):
It doesn't a lot.

Speaker 1 (41:40):
It's worse than when on the on the first trying
to figure out how this happen the SmackDown on Friday
on sci Fi The first ww smack on the Live
SmackDown commercials aired for the season premiere of Scare Tactics
Monday at ninety am on Time five. Like, you know,
but this is even worse because what what network is

(42:03):
Jersey Shorn.

Speaker 16 (42:05):
MTV?

Speaker 1 (42:06):
I think, Okay, so so it actually isn't worse at
least it's in the family because Fike TV isn't is
when MTV network isn't it yeah. So, so at least
they're co promoting a show that they actually have a
vested interest in. But it is kind of I mean,
there's a synergy there, but it'd be nice if they
weren't going head to head pat Yeah, are you.

Speaker 11 (42:24):
A short pad?

Speaker 15 (42:26):
No?

Speaker 16 (42:27):
I I think the last time I watched MTV they
were still putting wrestling shows on it.

Speaker 1 (42:31):
So yeah, I think I think from a Talian standpoint,
it might, it might be worth it. I'm not. I'm
not a Jersey Shore fan. I've probably seen a grand
total of six minutes of it, and it looks like
the same one minute looped over and over again to me.
But at the same time, I mean, it's a big
enough show it maybe that cross promotion can help, but

(42:54):
there is a luckily impact It's two hours and Jersey
Shores not so maybe even if they, you know, bring
people over, truly sure, if those fans know that, you know,
they're got a short gimmick, maybe they'll like Teenage.

Speaker 11 (43:05):
I'm not.

Speaker 1 (43:05):
I'm not saying it's an opening, shut dumb move on
their part. It certainly isn't an ideal circumstance because of
the time slot.

Speaker 21 (43:11):
Yeah, I mean, I I yeah, I guess the only
thing as far as the the guy goes the guy
Robbie he I know, he was an I SPW guy
and he was one of their big stars and they're
pushing in the expecitions.

Speaker 2 (43:24):
Do you guys know a lot about that guy as.

Speaker 22 (43:26):
Far as his his didn't ring ability?

Speaker 16 (43:29):
I I know, uh, I mean I saw Robbie Echoes
of Rob Echo's wrestle a few years ago, and he was,
you know, he did Uh. He's best known for his
tag team work over in E c w A, which
is Jim Kentner's promotion, and he was sort of the uh,
he was sort of the Ricky Morton of a baby
face tag team and then he became a heel and
you know, I mean he I mean, he was mostly

(43:50):
known for being a tag team wrestler. So I mean
this this book is not a is not a huge
stretch for him. He's actually a pretty good wrestler. It
just remains to be seen what they're gonna what they're
gonna do with them. And I sort of see the
whole Shore character thing as sort of a sort of
neutral I can't imagine that anybody who watches the Jersey
Show is going to go, oh, they have a guy
on TNA wrestling who's a fake Jersey show guy. Let

(44:13):
me tune in, and I can't imagine that people watching
t and A will go, oh, that's right, Jersey Shore
is on. I love that show. Let me go flip
over and watch it. I just think it's I.

Speaker 1 (44:23):
Just think it's no EmPATH. Yeah, Cameron, you said you
don't think TNA gets it. Since I haven't watched much
as Jersey Shore. What do you think about that they
haven't gotten with their short gimmick.

Speaker 22 (44:33):
Well, the biggest thing about that is even though NTV
is a network that's, you know, at this point going
directly towards tweens and teens and all that, there's a
certain element of partying and hanging out in six that
comes with the show that you're not gonna get on
that type of TV show without it being completely corny
or transity. It's just nothing natural about relationships in TNA

(44:56):
as you know, messed up as relationships can be on NTV.
But it's just there's no air being real at all,
so they just can't recreate the same thing.

Speaker 1 (45:05):
Yeah, it looks like a Saturday Night Live spoof more
than it looks like an extension of what makes Jersey
Short work.

Speaker 11 (45:12):
Which is already education in real life. So it's really far.

Speaker 1 (45:14):
Yeah, yeah, there you go, all right, cameraon, Thanks for recall,
appreciate it, Thank you. Quick note on ratings, The Ultimate
Fighter last night on Spike TV did a one point
three to two rating, which is really good, even stronger
in the male eighteen to thirty four demographic. It actually
beat Raw, you know, because Raw is strong in the

(45:36):
team in the male teens, and they're stronger in the
older demographic, but USC owns relatively speaking. They're just dominated
by the male eighteen to thirty four demo, which I'm
sure is no shock to anybody, but it did a
one point a two rating. In that male eighteen to
thirty four demo, Raw did a one point five to six.
So just a real strong night for Ultimate Fighter. Now

(45:57):
they didn't have to go against one day Night Football
or the you know, the whole Brett farv Randy Mosh
New York Market type thing that Raw did. So Raw
had a rough week and Tough had a good week.
But nevertheless, just kind of you know, interesting to compare
those numbers. Ultimate Fighter doing better ratings than than c
and a impact on average, but pretty close, you know

(46:20):
when it comes to Spike TV, although tough still is
a little stronger. In the mail demo, we're about to
go to a commercial break. Why listen to commercial breaks
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(46:40):
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If you want to give us a call here on
the live cast, down to us sixteen minutes in the

(47:01):
show the number six four six seven to one nine
A two eight. We'll also invite you to send us
email questions either during the show or if you're listening
to us on delay for a future show. Our email
address is PW torch Live cast at gmail dot com.
We'll also invite you to sign up on Facebook for
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Torch Live Cast, and you can also follow us on

(47:23):
Twitter at Twitter dot com Flash PW Torch Live Cast.
We're all over social media. Let's go to the next
caller and go to Herrea, Go three four seven. Please
staate your name and where you're from.

Speaker 20 (47:34):
Hello, my name is Chris from Brooklyn, New York. Hey, Chris, Yes,
I have a question regarding TNA. I've read in some
websites stick the Donald for Gloria ten minutes was like
three thousand, five hundred and that was heavily paid for paper.
My question is, doesn't show a sign to Dixie Carter
that whatever she's doing it it's wrong because the fact

(47:55):
that Hogan and Jeff Harvey and everybody else can't draw
can't draw tenants numbers, doesn't that tell her that the
fact that outside of w those people are not really pretty?
More like, doesn't that really show the fact that Vincamanism
who made those famous five Yeah.

Speaker 1 (48:14):
Although WWE doesn't exactly have breaking right this month either,
No pun intendance their show on October third in Dallas
for the pay review did seventy five hundred, So you
know that that's a terrible figure for a pay per
view in that market, and TNA threw a terrible, terrible
attendance for a pay review in general, with the stars
that they had, I would say, with the machinery and

(48:35):
the name brand that WWE has, seventy five hundred is
more alarming it then drawing thirty five hundred as the
Ocean Center. But I also think you know T and
A doesn't. They don't do many pay reviews, they don't
leave the impact zone very often. They don't have that
machinery in place to draw it doesn't. It's not an
excuse because they should do a better job than they do.

(48:56):
I don't know, I've had what how how do you
react to a thirty five hundred ten's figure.

Speaker 16 (49:01):
Well, I mean it's it's not good and they've done
better in the past, and this is their biggest show
of the year quote unquote, so you'll figure they would
have spent a few months into the promoting it and
try to get people in there. But i'd answer to
your question, Chris, now that's going to matter because the
PNA officers are where logic and common sense go to die?

Speaker 1 (49:19):
Anything else that Chris Oh, I have.

Speaker 20 (49:21):
Actually this was that question is regarding to Mickey James.
Someone said that that w D may try to, let's say,
use Gail Kin to beat her to that triple crown.
But don't you think that w D would not even
react to that? Like their philosophy is I asked James
about this one time. He said, the philosophy.

Speaker 9 (49:38):
Is we have let's say a j Lee, We can.

Speaker 20 (49:41):
Take her and throw her on the roster and replace Nicky.
So what do you think they would do if in
regard to that? Would you do you think they would
actually try to give the title to Gail Kids just
to show up T and A or just they would
ignore Mickey James.

Speaker 1 (49:55):
I think they don't care at all about the triple crown.
I bet that's the discussion that hasn't taken place in WWE.
It's pricing place outside of w w E. But I mean,
I can't even put to words. Maybe you can help
at how far Austen McMahon's radar the TNA Knockouts title
is from his day to day decision making process.

Speaker 16 (50:17):
Yeah, he I mean when when when you hear that
Vin McMahon doesn't watch TNA. That's just that's not just
something that they say in the in the offices to reporters.
He really doesn't watch DNA, and he really doesn't care
much about the women's division of WWE, so he would
care even less about the women's division in TNA. And

(50:38):
you know that's that's the end of that.

Speaker 1 (50:41):
Yep, all right, think thanks for the call, Chris. Our
number here is six four six seven eight. Only one
person in line, so you're this is a good time
to call up if you want to be part of
the show. Let's now go to aera code eight six five.
Please state your name and where you're from.

Speaker 20 (50:56):
It's going on.

Speaker 11 (50:58):
I say it's ephen An Fellers.

Speaker 2 (51:03):
I gotta probably one quod question of stup had to
die time.

Speaker 14 (51:06):
I'm asking right now, do you think now, at this
day and age, with the Internet and all that stuff,
I'm like, you gotta do it. As far as in
debt success coverage the wrestling goes, do you think it's
kind of hard for wrestling to have like any more
quote unquote surprises anymore like Maw's people to be shocked,
you know, like back in ninety six, when Hope can turned.

Speaker 15 (51:23):
You.

Speaker 14 (51:24):
You know, I was a little kid, so I didn't
keep up with it as much, but you know, histor
ails turn was a shocker, you know, and then like nowadays,
you couldn't do that because it'd be on the you know, newswires.
And then about a month and a half before it
happened that it has an apparent.

Speaker 1 (51:37):
Well, I would say, we'll go, yeah, go ahead, pat Yeah.

Speaker 16 (51:41):
I wouldn't say that it's impossible to surprise people anymore,
because what was the last year or the year before that?
We have John Cena coming out coming back early at
the Royal Rumble and nobody knew about it in the vance.
I mean, I think you can surprise people, but you
have to keep the number of people who know about
your surprise down to maybe maybe two or three uhh,

(52:02):
I mean ww bringing back Paul Barrow wasn't surprise. But
until they did it at the tapings, there was no
there was no hint of it beforehand. They snuck them
into the building that sort of thing. Yeah, it's possible.

Speaker 1 (52:12):
I think it's possible to surprise people. And and frankly,
I don't think the Hogan turn was that big of
a surprise. What the circumstances of that weren't a lot
different than some of the circumstances today. I mean, I
don't think that was a big surprise, and that everyone said, well,
it's you're gonna be Hogan or staying and it's gonna
be tonight. And then Bobby Heenan kind of spilled the
beans on commentary for I think some people. You know,

(52:33):
when when a lifetime babyface walks to the ring to
make the save, it's not very often color commentators go,
it's not too often color commentators say is he gonna
who side is he on? Who side is he on?
And so you know that that that spoiled it a
little bit. So if you're paying attention to the commentary,
be like, why did Bobby say that is Hogan gonna turn?
But here what my other point would be, let's not

(52:56):
make it. We have to keep in perspective that surprises
aren't that big of a deal in terms of the
money you make. You know, it goes back to what
we talked about earlier, having strong heels and strong baby
faces and characters that fans care about and wanting to
see them fight, and having the matches matter when they
get in the ring and they fight, having fans care
about the matches, and then having titles that mean something,

(53:18):
and then when the outcome, when there's actually a decision
in the match and an outcome, then you have then
you react. That's the kind of stuff. It's not as fun,
it's not as sexy, it's not as as as you know,
exciting if you're a booker, because you love to see
the shot on fans' faces. But in reality, what counts
is do you draw thirty five hundred people or fifteen
thousand people? And I don't think the prizes necessarily draw

(53:39):
doesn't mean they're not a nice component. It's a nice
bonus I think in a well booked product, But I
don't know that you know, and it's nice in the
sense that if you can consistently surprise people maybe three
times per year on pay per view with something they
didn't expect, or a surprise main showing up on TV,
it makes it gives you a little adrenaline rush when
you hear the intro music or you order the pay
per view that maybe this will be one of those weeks.

(53:59):
There's a support, right, So I'm not saying it's not
a good thing. But I'm not saying that if surprises
stopped happening, that is really the death knell for growing
money in wrestling I've had. Do you kind of agree
with that that sometimes surprises are a little overrated?

Speaker 16 (54:15):
Yeah? Well, yeah, I mean surprises, you know, if you're
gonna do them, they should lead to something. You shouldn't
surprise that your audience just for the fake surprising your audience, right.

Speaker 1 (54:24):
Yeah, yeah, anything else?

Speaker 14 (54:27):
Steven, Yeah, you guys wanting to get your opinions on that?
I guess, well, click that that's kind of puffed in
my head. How bad do you think the raw rain
you're gonna have to get obviously dropped down a little
bit this week? How bad do you think the rating
you're gonna have to get before Mintic Man is gonna
be forced to, as you did with the Ads in Error,
be forced to change his philosophy on wrestling.

Speaker 1 (54:51):
Good question. I mean, I think there's already change in
progress behind the scenes. I think that the the more
ideas are being listened to right now, more ideas are
being considered for what to do after the election of
Linda McMann. And I don't whether she wins or loses
I think there's obviously they don't want to start just

(55:12):
doing crazy things on TV with the media scrutiny that's
occurring right now. In fact, just today they put up
in articles outing all the nice things President Obama said
about WWE, and different people in different high level politicians
have said, you know when they've recorded little snippets for
ww television over the years. They're very much in pr
mot right now because WWE has become part of the
election process. So they're not going to do anything in

(55:34):
the next several weeks. But they wouldn't. They probably wun't anyway,
they'd be too fast. But I think when the ratings
are below three point zero three out of four weeks,
no matter what circumstances, no matter what the circumstances, if
you have all of your top stars available, it's not
like John Cena got hurt, you know, it's not like
three wrestlers were hurting a Carconer and can't rest. I mean,
they got pretty much full access to their roster and

(55:55):
how they want to use it on RAW three out
of four weeks below three point zero. That I think
opens up a lot of ideas that would not be
considered to be considered now, you know, I think they
would have. I think vincip Man would have been much
more invested in AWW invasion angle. Look, business was suffering
to the degree that it is right now, I think
he would take more chances than he would have back
then when things were going pretty well. I think right

(56:17):
now the word is they are looking at some changes.
I don't know if that includes more of an attitude
era approach, dropping the PG thing. I think they should
stop talking about being PG. I think Edge needs to
stop mentioning, Oh, it's PG show, so I can't say that,
I mean, why draw attention to the fact that you
know that it's PG. But but but I it sounds
like they are looking at some changes, and I think
they're in that place now already. Steven, I don't think

(56:40):
it's going to take a lot more to shock to
kind of shake wwe by the shoulders and say, or
vincick Mann by the shoulder and say we need to
kind of shake things up a little bit. Pat, what
do you think?

Speaker 16 (56:50):
Yeah? I agree with you, Wade. I also think, and
I talked about this some with James yesterday, We're going
to see a bump on Monday, just because you know,
just because of a less interesting football game that they're
in competition with. But you know, I feel that the
that the competition from football and the PG rating there,
they're all crutches and excuses and they don't make up

(57:13):
with the fact that WW is not nearly as hot
as it was seven, eight or nine years ago.

Speaker 1 (57:18):
Yeah, yeah, Stephen, thanks for your call. Let's go to
our next call. We got one person on hold. We're
going to get some more than one phone call. So
if you want to call in and you've been frustrated
by not being able to get through before, now is
a good time. Six four six seven two one nine
eight two eight. That's six four six seven nine a
two eight. Let's go to Eric code ninety five four.
Thanks for calling. Please state your name and where you're from. Hey,

(57:38):
Mike from Farida?

Speaker 11 (57:39):
How you doing.

Speaker 1 (57:40):
I'm doing good. What's on your mind today?

Speaker 2 (57:42):
Uh?

Speaker 11 (57:43):
Just something quick?

Speaker 3 (57:44):
What do you know?

Speaker 24 (57:45):
Have you heard anything from anybody in TNA on what
the chances with the criticism towards Wwe have the independent
contract to status and how a TNA employee employees class
A wrestlers classified as and want to see what they
thought or you know, because this could be a time

(58:05):
when maybe t and a WWE would have to join
forces if they had disclosed to Congress or you know,
I want to get your takes on that, thank you,
bet Do you want.

Speaker 14 (58:15):
To start with that?

Speaker 16 (58:16):
Okay? Sure? I don't think that that TNA considers it
their issue. I mean, I don't think that they actually
take a critical look at what's going on with WW
in the media and think that, you know, this could
apply to us one day. That just doesn't seem like
the way they do business. I don't see TNA or
WW joining forces to fight off the regulation of independent

(58:38):
contractors because WW won't let TNA join forces with them,
because that would be admitting that there's a there's another
wrestling promotion in North America besides them, and and frankly,
they don't want TNA to help, given how well TNA
does it everything else. So yeah, I don't think they've
paid notice at all.

Speaker 1 (58:58):
Yeah, I don't think w's can yeah going to join
up with with TNA in anyway. TNA was at first,
well not at not at first, but a few years
ago Dixie Carter wanted to supply wrestlers with medical insurance,
and she wanted to kind of be the leader in
that way. I'm not sure how that worked out in
terms of how bare bones it was or how logistically

(59:21):
that worked out, but that's where checking into again and
kind of doing some follow up. I don't think TNA.
I mean, it's the gap is closing, not because TNA
is growing, but because ww A is dropping. You know,
if you look at a one point two or one
point three rating and then you look at WWE at
a two seven, two eight or two nine, it doesn't
seem like it's quite as big of a distance as
when WWE's in the mid threes. But overall, in terms

(59:44):
of international, international recognition, all the licensing deals, the history
of the company, the recognition of the brand, the network
that they're on, it's they're still just miles apart. And
and anything that happens with with WWE really is going
to be independent of anything TNA does. T and A
could say we're gonna make all our wrestlers employees, and
we're gonna do mandatory time off twice a year, we're

(01:00:07):
gonna give everybody a break, we're gonna do everything right.
I don't think that would affect WWE very much. I
think it would be brought up. I think maybe, you know,
maybe Richard Blumenthal a couple of nights ago in the
debate would have said, WWE's prime competition on Spike TV
classify their wrestlers as employees, and ww should follow their lead.
I mean that might be the extent of how that

(01:00:27):
would affect them, but it is. I mean, it is,
it has been. I'm glad that it's been on the spotlight.
I think it makes wrestlers who sometimes don't even think
that much about it because they're getting paid more than
they could get paid doing anything else in their mind,
and they don't want to rock the boat, and they
don't even know how tax law works and how you
know what the classification means or doesn't mean. They just

(01:00:48):
think this is the way it's always been and it
must be the way it's supposed to be. And unfortunately
wrestlers just don't look out for themselves in that way
collectively to try to say, hey, maybe we deserve something
different or better. Maybe the way it's always been done
isn't the way it should be done. I think this
kind of attention being being brought to it might make
some of the veteran wrestlers go yeah, or some of
the younger wrestlers for that matter, go hey, Maybe there

(01:01:10):
is something about this that we deserve better than we have.
Maybe we shouldn't have to be on the road fifty
one out of fifty two weeks out of the year.
Maybe a little time off would extend our careers in
our health. I don't know, you know, I WW doesn't
like this kind of scrutiny. It's one of the reasons
I was surprised Linda ran for office. I mean, because
it was going to put at risk a lot of
the things that WWE flies under the radar with i've had.

(01:01:32):
Have you been do you think that ww's got more
or less scrutiny than you expected compared to what you
thought where they thought they would be at this point
after hearing Linda was running.

Speaker 16 (01:01:40):
For office, actually less, I mean, I am, but I
shouldn't be surprised because they're focusing, as you know, cable
news sometimes does, on minution instead of the actual issues
that are being contested in this election. And just you know,
just to clarify something that you said earlier. WW doesn't

(01:02:00):
enjoy scrutiny of any sort. I mean, they would much
rather you print their press releases and move on.

Speaker 25 (01:02:12):
In twenty twelve, NXT transitioned into the developmental system and
ultimately the brand you see today. On the Torch Vip
podcast NXT Eight Years Back, we'll be taking a weekly
look at this page in NXT's early history.

Speaker 26 (01:02:27):
Join Kelly Wells and me Tom Stout from PWT Talks
NXT every Saturday as we go eight years back to
the day to track NXT's rising talents and why they
did or didn't work out Exclusively for PW Torch VIP members.

Speaker 1 (01:02:44):
WW dot com you've been published on their website this
afternoon quotes that President Obama, Senator Hillary Clinton, Senator John McCain,
Nancy Pelosi. They actually did an interview with Nanty Pelosi
and also some comments from Chris Newinsky talking about talking
about WWE, and their opening paragraph was listed those Obama, Clinton, McCain,

(01:03:06):
and George Bush and Pelosi and it says to say,
I've embraced and lotted WW in the past. Therefore, current
negative criticism concerning WW from some group would seem to
be inconsistent and hypocritical, including the recent ad paid for
it by the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee to that though.
I say the politicians are speaking out in favor of
SmackDown the.

Speaker 11 (01:03:26):
Vote or the charity that w splics does.

Speaker 1 (01:03:28):
But I don't think it's fair to say that that
those politicians knew the ww business inside and out and
endorsed everything that WWE has ever done or might ever do,
just because they were willing to go on the air
and apply WWE for trying to get the SmackDown the
Vote smacked down your Vote message to younger to younger fans. Anyway,

(01:03:49):
I Mike, anything else before I let you go? Well one,
we're losing your signal. Mike, try again. Okay, sorry about that, Mike,
We just couldn't your phone cell phone faded out anyway.
Thanks to all the callers. VIP member stay tuned because
Pat McNeil are gonna stay stay on here and record

(01:04:10):
several more minutes of discussion in the v I P
After Show. Don't forget keep visiting PW torch dot com
every day on your computer or your cell phone until
next time. Wait Keller signing on. All right, Pat, That

(01:04:35):
wraps up the live portion of the p W Torch
live cast. Now we're in the VIP after show portion
of the program. I found it interesting that jesse Ventura
has decided to speak out against the independent contractor classification
of pro wrestlers. He says, they get around paying Social Security.
Why does the government let them off the hook? As

(01:04:56):
somebody said in the comment area at pw torch dot
com and the VIP site, now it's time for WWB
to offer jesse Ventura a special referee slot with a
paycheck to get him to shut up about this again.

Speaker 11 (01:05:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 16 (01:05:08):
Well, I mean, the government doesn't care as long as
they get their Social Security money from somebody, and in
this case, it's the wrestlers. That's all independent contracting works.

Speaker 1 (01:05:16):
Yep, yep. And and but just you know, even setting
the specifics aside, just jesse vent Tura himself speaking out
against WWE once again. I still think back to that
Summer Slam ninety nine episode where he just changed his
opinions and and I mean I even asked him, you know, what,
what is it about the working conditions of wrestlers that
have changed that makes you willing to work with WWE

(01:05:39):
after earlier this year you were critical of him, and
he just said, you know, it's not it's it's up
to each wrestler to do to do what they wanted.
I'm not I'm not their parents. I'm not I'm not
their careteek or something. I mean, it was just like
he kind of blew off the question after he had
been outspoken on Larry King Live and in his book.
So it's just it's one of those things, you know,
sometimes Jesse makes a lot of sense, and then other
times you just realized he he just there's not a

(01:06:00):
real consistency. It's kind of like a TNA a TNA's
it's like he's booked by TNA.

Speaker 16 (01:06:06):
Well, yeah, he's a little better than that.

Speaker 1 (01:06:11):
Maybe, but I think the ramifications of his uh swinging
back and forth depending on who's paying him is a
little more offensive than then just yeah.

Speaker 16 (01:06:20):
It sounds like he's a former politician or something.

Speaker 1 (01:06:23):
Yes, yes, all right. A couple other things in the headlines,
an anti steroid group criticized Lina mc man for the
appearance at least of historically lacks steroid policy in WWE.
MSNBC kind of just laughed at or one of the
analysts just said, you know, linemic man cannot speak say

(01:06:44):
that even admit that steroids are a health danger because
of legal liability issues. You know, you say that it
hasn't taken on, that WWE hasn't had as much criticism
as you thought that they might have under these circumstances.
But it does seem to be picking up a little bit.
Even though the race is eleven points right now according
to the latest poll, it's still it's still on the radar,

(01:07:09):
I think because it is WWE, and I think even
Richard Blumenthal with the Vietnam comment made it kind of
come more to the limelight. But I do you think
anything good is going to come out of the increased
scrutiny that has occurred this month?

Speaker 16 (01:07:21):
Well? Define good? Uh yeah, I mean, I yeah. I
mean there's a possibility Connecticut could go over the h
the WWE wrestler contracts and conclude that there's you know,
there's no way that these people qualify them. The pendant
contractors or maybe the or maybe the I R s
will get involved and that w W will have to
change the way it does business. There's a chance that

(01:07:44):
the increased public scrutiny on ww will will leave them feeling,
you know, leave them feeling like they have to change
their ways. Although I would suspect with Benser Man at
the Helm. You know, his interest in what other people
think of him will end on election day.

Speaker 1 (01:07:57):
Yeah, yeah, I think I think Man's concern after election
day win or lose, And it looks likely it's going
to be a loss, but you never know is going
to be How do we get ratings back up to
three point five? I mean, I just I think raw
is his is his. That's how he gauges whether he's
successful or not, more than just about anything and and
and that's the instant gratification. Also on a weekly basis.
I'm interested in what they could do if WWE is

(01:08:20):
considering changes and and apparently they are. How far do
you think they would go? And do you think it
would even include trying to find a way around the
PG rating a little bit as important as that Metel
deal is for them.

Speaker 16 (01:08:33):
Well, when they're apparently talking and thinking a lot about
bringing Jim Ross back, you know they're kind of serious. Yeah,
because that's you know, because that's uh, that was the
one big no no that then some you know, Benson
kept them down. Have been trying to do is create
is you know, create a new play by pay play
but play by play Voice of w W e and

(01:08:54):
you know, frankly their upset that they sort of got
the high hat from Jim Ross and said, no, you
know that's okay. I don't need the travel schedule anymore.
I'm the coming from surgery, thanks him, Thank you very much.

Speaker 1 (01:09:03):
Yeah, well it was. It was my number one item
on my Keellers STA a couple of weeks ago. Bring
Jim Ross back. You know, it's one thing they can
do to spark rating. Just the voice of Jim Ross
is going to tell fans something different is happening here.
And you'd even take that away if you'd say, well,
even if you've never heard Jim Ross before, he just
brings an energy level and an ability to sell storylines
that nobody else does. And Michael Cole's turned into a

(01:09:23):
cornball goofball character and he's probably more entertaining doing that
than he was, but he's not really useful as a
lead announcer at this point given what they've done with
his character.

Speaker 16 (01:09:33):
Yeah yeah, I mean he should be the heel commentator
or the heel manager or something other than what are
you doing? Or maybe even the general manager.

Speaker 1 (01:09:40):
It was our headline in the back issue we just
put up to day from five years ago the October fifteenth,
two thousand and five issue of The Torch. The headline
was ross removed as host of Rock Fired on TV
by Linda. So yeah, kind of amazing here, and I
love that the five and a half years ago back
issue that we put up, one of the headlines was
Matt Hardy to enter too likely to go to TNA

(01:10:01):
to join his brother, which I found funny that here
we are five and a half years later and that's
kind of the could be the current headline.

Speaker 16 (01:10:10):
Yeah, yeah, or yeah, well no that's true. No, I mean,
or you can you know, or you can look back
fourteen years to the to the big you know, big
heel turn angle at Dayton of Beats on pay per view.
I mean people, yeah, people do like to Yeah, I
mean wrestling promoters think there's a certain value in reliving

(01:10:30):
the past, whether there is or not.

Speaker 1 (01:10:32):
Yeah. Yeah. What do you think of the potential of
Matt Hardy in TNA.

Speaker 16 (01:10:38):
Well, I would say he could be a useful I mean,
he could be a asset to do if they use him. Well,
but they don't use people well.

Speaker 1 (01:10:45):
So yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean I think.

Speaker 16 (01:10:50):
Yeah, I think I think the schedule will be better for.

Speaker 1 (01:10:53):
Him, right, although I yeah, although I don't know. He
might be at the point where the schedule isn't really
the problem. It may be beyond that he's doing that
he would be living the life he's living because of
the schedule. It might be beyond that. You'd have some
friends to go to the winghouse with, Yes, a different

(01:11:13):
set of friends.

Speaker 20 (01:11:15):
It was.

Speaker 1 (01:11:17):
Five and a half years ago two pat or I'm sorry,
five years ago that you wrote a column another month
another gimmick and you wrote about the evolution of gimmick
names for pay per views and you talked about the
different different hooks for how pay perviews operate. Do you
think one of the things that WWE would consider changing

(01:11:38):
going in the next year is a pretty radical change
in how they present pay per views? And one idea,
and Bruce Mitchell has pushed this is except for the
names that really matter. And and tell me if you
think I'm missing anything, but I'd say roll, Rumble, WrestleMania
in SummerSlam are probably the three that really are the
only must you don't change. But what if they changed

(01:11:58):
the name like and did what you have seen and
not put a number on it, but use the name
the name Sena Orton or you know, like headline with
the actual name of the wrestlers and build it around
that singular match and drop the gimmick attachment or just
the name itself.

Speaker 16 (01:12:13):
Well, yeah, they couldn't have done it last year because
then it would have been WWE's universals Orton, WWE's Universus
Orton two, ww C Universus Orton's three. Well, yeah, you
get the point. And I'm a bump Survivor Series in there.
I think that's maybe four names you could use especial.

Speaker 1 (01:12:30):
Yeah, although McMahon was willing to drop that, and I
wondered also if if he just doesn't like the idea
of the word survivor being used in a promotion that's
full of wrestlers when you look back who are dead.
I mean, I don't know if that was part of
the problem. It also just seems like it's a duplicate
pay per view with breaking rights where they kind of
have the uh, you know, the Robbers of SmackDown multi

(01:12:53):
Man take Team too. But you know, Survivor series definitely
has a long history, but I'm not as attached to it.
But I would think if you're going to have a
fourth one. That would be the fourth one.

Speaker 16 (01:13:01):
Yeah, I mean, I would definitely get away from the UH,
from the UH from the theme shows, you know, from
from naming a show Hell on a Cell and letting
everybody know a year in advance that there's gonna be
you know that the w B title is gonna be
fought in Helen to Sell no matter who the two
top guys.

Speaker 1 (01:13:17):
Are, Right? Is there anything else besides Jim Ross and
anything else you talk about? Is there something else that
you would recommend that they do or that you think
that they could do with the stock of some serious changes.

Speaker 16 (01:13:31):
I'm I'm going to pitch it again since I pitched
it a few months ago in a column. They should
go to They should go to a third brand, I mean,
and maybe not even the I'm already starting to do
that somewhat, but they should be there should be a
third touring group and basically every wrestler gets about two
thirds of the UH of the travel that they did before.

Speaker 1 (01:13:50):
Right, Yeah, yeah, so well, I.

Speaker 2 (01:13:53):
Mean, I mean third group.

Speaker 16 (01:13:55):
The third group wouldn't be very strong, and I'm guessing
they would probably have to borrow a lot of the
UH legends of wrestling someone who might actually enjoy going
out on tour and signing autographs and that sort of thing.

Speaker 1 (01:14:05):
And just explain the concept in a few extra more sentences,
just to clarify what that idea was.

Speaker 16 (01:14:09):
To remind us, Okay, my idea was to take the
two hours of useless television that they have nx T
and Superstars and turn it into a third brand which
would be built around, you know, which would be I mean,
it's not too different from ECW, but it would be
built around, you know, the older wrestlers who are used
more in a training role, the younger wrestlers who they're
trying to build up to the next level, and you know,

(01:14:32):
throwing a dose of the the legends, i e. The
guys who are Hall of Famers, the guys who are
semi or mostly retired, and then have them do appearances
and that sort of thing.

Speaker 1 (01:14:41):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, And what are the odds of them
doing that virtually?

Speaker 11 (01:14:46):
No?

Speaker 1 (01:14:47):
Yeah, I do. Do you think the uh, the brand split?
It might be near an end that that I do.

Speaker 16 (01:14:55):
Because I mean, I think at some point they're going
to say, well, what, well, what were we doing when
we were really successful? We had Ron SmackDown and there
was only one group in the roster, and Angles from
Raw would carry over to SmackDown in three nights, and
and you could plug SmackDown from Raw and Row from SmackDown,
and you know, and they be following a continuous story
like it used to be.

Speaker 1 (01:15:15):
And I think just having Cole float over to SmackDown
and not really making a big deal out of it
is kind of a sign that, you know, Vince, that
Vince's patience has run out on it, and the and
the really the reason for it to exist was excess talent,
the eventually wanting to have you want to have a
show on broadcast TV and one on on cable, which
they don't have anymore. That was one of the reasons
for SmackDown existing and having way too much made have

(01:15:36):
been talent to fit all on one show, and wanting
to expand to two pay per views per month using
the SmackDown brand since the uh, you know, the attempt
to revive the w W brand did work out, so
all those reasons really don't exist anymore. I mean, and
I've been I've been a proponent of keeping the brand split,
but I'm at a point now where I'm kind of
a proponent of contraction. Just cut everything down to just raw,

(01:15:58):
make smack Down a one hour show on side by
on Friday nights. Give us three hours of wrestling a week,
and and and and make it great, great stuff. And
limit the appearances of top top stars on your program
so that you maybe can draw pay per view again
because people aren't see John Cena wrestle every week.

Speaker 2 (01:16:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 16 (01:16:15):
Well, I mean, they could limit the appearances of top
top stars now, but they're just not going to do
it because they are so worried about ratings and ready,
you know, and and and the idea that they should
step back a bit and maybe develop some more people
and then spend more time developing talent and doing things
that will work out in the long term. Vincel Fans

(01:16:35):
is not interested in the long term, and he's made
that pretty clear.

Speaker 1 (01:16:38):
Yep, yep, Well, very good, Pat, thanks so much for
joining me today. Looks like we'll have you on the
live cast on Thursdays or Fridays for the.

Speaker 16 (01:16:46):
Well actually, well, I guess, I guess nope, you'll mind
if we talk about it. My work schedule changed and
then changed again, and basically if it's okay, I can
probably do the Wednesday live cast again. Oh okay, oh great,
and totally change and totally change everything around again.

Speaker 1 (01:17:04):
Sure sounds good. Well, we'll put it more more vaguely.
We're going to have you on probably once a week
on the lodcast again live, so that'll be good to
get back into that after a little break because of
your work schedule. Yes, all right on behalf well, go
ahead gone, sorry.

Speaker 16 (01:17:18):
Pet no on behalf of Wade Keller. This is Pat
McNeil signing off.

Speaker 1 (01:17:22):
Thank you. Anytime you're watching WWE Raw or SmackDown or
aw Dynamite in particular, send us an email if you've
got thoughts on the show or a topic you want
us to address or a question for us. Wade Keller
Podcast at pwtorch dot com. Wadkeller Podcast at pewtorch dot com.
If there's anything else going on in pro wrestling that

(01:17:43):
you want us to address on our main podcast during
our mailbank segments, that same email applies Wadekeller Podcast at
pwtorch dot com. We invite that interaction. Let us know
what you think of what we're saying, and let us
know what you want us to talk about and ask
us specific questions Wade Keller podcast at PW torch dot com.

Speaker 11 (01:18:07):
You're listening to the PW Torch Live cast. That is
PW Torch Assistant editor James Caldwell hosting Today on Friday,
October the fifteenth, twenty ten. Joined Today by Towards calling
this Craig Parks. Greig, how are you doing today?

Speaker 2 (01:18:21):
I'm doing wild? Thanks James?

Speaker 27 (01:18:23):
How are you doing good?

Speaker 11 (01:18:25):
Just your your average boring Friday afternoon. Right, Just nothing happening,
not a whole lot going on, no stories of merit,
nothing to talk about, Greg Gregory.

Speaker 2 (01:18:36):
See let you do end on the phone.

Speaker 11 (01:18:45):
No, we do not have a three way conference call.

Speaker 2 (01:18:47):
So two of its second.

Speaker 11 (01:18:52):
Yeah I did, Greg, So I was successful?

Speaker 27 (01:18:54):
Apparently uh you were.

Speaker 11 (01:18:56):
Anyways, we have a lot happening a want to discuss
on today's live cast. In no particular order. Matt Hardy
has gone from ww TNA impact last night, eliciting many
a strong response after viewing last night's show. We'll get
into that, of course, impact viewership. The initial number we

(01:19:19):
have is one point nine million viewers last night show.
Kind of expected they would get a pop in viewership,
don't have the numbers. Kind of break it down then
look at the ratings in the quarter hours and see
the trends from the show yet. But great, what's your
initial reaction to either last night's show first, or or

(01:19:40):
the one point nine million viewers and not being one
of their you know, turning out to be one of
their most watched shows last night.

Speaker 2 (01:19:47):
Yeah, I'll go with the with the rating first, That's
that's a pretty big rating. I expected a little bump tied,
and I expect to be that high. You know, maybe
I was just airing on the side of conservatism a bit,
But like I said, that was other shocking for me
that the number was that high. The question is always

(01:20:07):
how many will they retain? We've stayed just in the
feedback home from the tourist that's been posted on the
website throughout the day, excuse me that a lot of
the viewers were quite turned off by the show and
the lack of wrestling on the show.

Speaker 11 (01:20:23):
So you know, that's the thing with these.

Speaker 2 (01:20:27):
Big resets and the big changes and the shocking swerves,
the big angles that P and A likes, run out
a Papa big rating for a week, but can you
sustain the audience? P and A has not been able
to sustain the big audiences. Yet maybe this will change things,
but that remains to be seen.

Speaker 11 (01:20:45):
And to me, the thing about the Last Night Show
is that I don't in principle have a problem with
the show that doesn't feature a lot of wrestling. The
problem I have is that when you have a lot
of talking segments, they should be aimed at building toward
wrestling matches, to establishing the importance of a title chase,
or two characters who were feuding which will eventually lead

(01:21:07):
to a match. Nothing in those first forty five minutes
was about wrestling or a match, or a feud, a
championship quest. It was all just a lot of talk.
And that's you know, if those forty five minutes were
spent on re establishing the championship rankings, re establishing the
importance because save what was that.

Speaker 2 (01:21:30):
Banking, I don't talk about.

Speaker 11 (01:21:32):
Yeah, nothing just disappeared. But yeah, if you're gonna spend
forty five minutes of TV time and you're gonna talk
a lot, okay, well let's make it about a quest
or or building up toward a match. They even had
the main even of the show was a number contenter
match between Anderson and RVD at no point during the show.

(01:21:54):
It now we're in fifty five minutes of TV time
before they was that final commercial break before four reactions
started with the main event not at one point unless
I missed it. I did, I did kind of doze
off for a second, unless I missed it. There was
not a single mention of a number continder match between
two top stars on this show. And not to me
the problem and not so much that the forty five

(01:22:15):
minutes and we all sit here and and I even
made five in my blogage. I just thought it was
ridiculous the amount of canvas time giving a Dixie Carter
on last night's show. It's just, you know, just a
blatant example of keeping the money mark happy and keeping
her involved invested in the product. But you know, if
you gonna forty five minutes of TV talking time at
least focused on a match or two, my goodness, So

(01:22:37):
I mean greatful.

Speaker 2 (01:22:38):
Not only that, not only that, but the main event
bled so far over interreaction. I mean, we've seen the
last few weeks, in an effort to I assume pop
up the rating for reaction, we've had, we've had main
events kind of lead over interreaction. And you know, that's
not a terribly big deal to me because it has

(01:23:00):
an over on, So why not just treat this as
an over on even though it's going into reaction. But
when you don't even start the main event until you
know reaction starts because you have so much talking on
the show, I think that is where it gets a
little ridiculous.

Speaker 11 (01:23:17):
I agree with that. And then the to not even
have a finish. You know, that's two out of three
main events of Impact the last the last two or
three shows, there hasn't even been a finish, not even
an announcement. You know, it's like you know, I mean,
it's almost worse than when you know, w without these
when Nexus would be involved in interfer With matches, you

(01:23:37):
at least knew that, Okay, the match ended because of
a run in by Nexus, it's a no contest. Even
though it's annoying that they never officially announced the results,
and they did it so often this summer they just
became repetitively frustrating to watch. But these last two matches
Kurt Ango verus Abyss and ARBII versus Anderson, like it
just ended because there wasn't even like finished. There wasn't

(01:24:02):
even anything that symbol this is the end of the mask.
It just cuts the reaction time. You know, just how
do you invest in a wrestling matchmen, that's your finish,
your main event.

Speaker 2 (01:24:12):
Yeah, and you talk about, you know how rap Van
Dam versus mister Anderson was not built up throughout the show,
and I agree with you, but I think there was
something bigger that was missed, that was not built up
throughout the show that I think should have been, and
that was Kurt Angle not winning the title at Bound
for Glorie and by his own stipulations, being forced to retire, right,

(01:24:34):
And that was something that was not mentioned throughout the
show until he walked out unless time again, a lot
of time, it's something.

Speaker 12 (01:24:44):
I had.

Speaker 2 (01:24:45):
I had this show on the DVR, so you know,
there were a couple a couple of times where I
fast forward to you know today and the talking or
entrances or whatnot. It's trying to get to the meat
of the show before the live cast here today, but
that it sounds saying that I can't, Well, we have
somebody the level of Kurt Angle who his forced retirement,

(01:25:09):
his loss on Sunday was overshadowed understandably because they set
up the Angle the reveal of day and that was,
you know, at the time, a bigger deal than Kurt
Angle's retirement. You know, argue the merits of that if
you want, but it was set up that way, and okay,
I can understand that. But this is something that Angles
been talking about for months. He finally does lose in

(01:25:30):
a pay per view and comes out with a little
fan fair what was it an hour, an hour and
fifteen minutes, an hour and twenty minutes into the show. Yeah,
and nothing was said prior to that about the fate
of kurd Angle. That's that's I just don't get it.
I mean, yes, they is on the mind and should

(01:25:51):
be on the mind and should be a talking point
of everyone because of how it's been set up and
how important it's been portrayed on TV on the pay
per views. But for that to not even mention that
or not even plugged a Curt Angle was going to
have something to say later on about his retirement, that's
that's sketchy to me.

Speaker 11 (01:26:09):
And to me, at the end of that segment, I
don't know what the resolution was, you know, is he gone?
I mean, for the stipulation, and the way it played
out is is he gone or is there still something
with him? And Jerry?

Speaker 9 (01:26:21):
You know that they never played it.

Speaker 2 (01:26:24):
It certainly did seem like a way to write him off,
if not for good then then briefly. And you know,
we know that Angle is kind of a resigned as TNA,
so he's not going anywhere permanently, but the way they
wrote the segment certainly seemed like they were writing him
off at least for the.

Speaker 11 (01:26:40):
Short term, right and and he's definitely taking time off,
and we know that it's it's just one of those
things where they never really even attempt to answer a
question that everybody watching that segment want to know the
answer to. And it's not even one of those well
let's just play it out and and you know, have
Sting and Nash talk in vague terms and talking tongues.

(01:27:02):
It's just one of those things where it's just lazy
storytelling when you can't even answer a basic question on
arguably your most important wrestler in the history of this
company outside of maybe aj Styles or Samoa Joe, the
fate of his future in the company. For the storyline,
it's just you gotta at least answer that question. So
that's just yeah, you bring up that point, and that's

(01:27:23):
one of those glaring things from the show. It's kind
of been overlooked because DNA has handled the retirement storyline
so poorly over the last three months, in not the
last two or three months ever since Angle's kind of
top ten quest was eliminated and they went went for
that tournament, you know, put him in that tournament for
the title. So that's just kind of part for the

(01:27:45):
course that Angled. Gregor're gonna take a lot of phone
calls to say, you can tell already, we already have
five people on hold today. You want to jump on
the phone lines and get in line. If you're listening
to us Live, you're on blog talk radio. The number
to call it is six four, six seven to one,
nine eight eight. Let's go to our first phone call today.
I believe this is Ian out of Tennessee.

Speaker 9 (01:28:05):
Ian.

Speaker 11 (01:28:06):
How are you doing today?

Speaker 7 (01:28:08):
Good?

Speaker 11 (01:28:08):
How are you guys doing doing great? What do you
have for us? Well?

Speaker 28 (01:28:12):
I just got done watching The Impact a few minutes ago,
and I'm I guess I'm willing to give it another chance.
I was kind of intrigued by the show a little
disappointed that there wasn't hardly any wrestling on it. But
the one thing that bothered me is I really hope
that they don't build the whole show and the whole

(01:28:34):
promotion over these guys destroyed WCW, watch them destroy TNA.
That that kind of kind of like WWE having Edge
come out there and say that he's going to destroy
everything that's stupid indevidually. And when you've got people that are,

(01:28:57):
you know, icons that my parents grow up watching, like
Hogan and Flayer and Staying talk about money and power
instead of matches and built.

Speaker 11 (01:29:09):
I think at the end of the day, it's.

Speaker 28 (01:29:11):
It's gonna run people away. You might get people to
come in, and a pretty big number of the once
they find out that this is ault's gonna be about.

Speaker 2 (01:29:20):
I don't think you're gonna.

Speaker 11 (01:29:21):
Be able to get him to stay. I agree completely,
and yeah, I think you're right on Greg. What's your reaction.

Speaker 2 (01:29:28):
I will say this about last night's show, more so
than probably any impact show that I can remember, it
was a focused show. It was they knew, they knew
what they were doing, they knew what they wanted to
get over, and they got over it really showed how
important and how big this immortals flash fortune against whoever.

(01:29:51):
I guess Joe, Rob Van Dam and mister Anderson and
you know whoever's throwing together. It really showed how important
that feud is because of how focused it was. And
I don't really necessarily have a problem with that. There
was less segments. I didn't have a headache after watching it. Well,
I had a headache for.

Speaker 11 (01:30:08):
A different reason than usual.

Speaker 2 (01:30:10):
You know, they weren't trying to stuff eve a million
things on the show, and none of it sticks. I
remember distinctly a lot of the stuff that happened on
the show. You know, I just watched it, but I
could give you a not of the important stuff that happened.
And that's rare for a t and a show, for
an impact show. So I'll give them credit. They knew
what they wanted to get across, they knew the major

(01:30:31):
stories they were going with, and I think they got
them across. The problem was, you know, look at who
is involved sting Jeff Jarrett, Eric Bishof, PAULK. Cogan, and
these are guys that Pastor probably wasn't even beginning to
describe the shade that some of these that are in,

(01:30:52):
And will the fans be intrigued enough about Bishop and
Hogan as a heel group running TNA to keep tuning in?
Will they be intrigued enough about the Babyfaces, the Denaros,
the joe Is, the Van Dams, who are going to
be fighting on the side presumably of TNA, and fighting
on the side of the fans. Are they gonna be
that interested to keep tuning in? And how do the

(01:31:14):
Dominos falls from here on out? Because the way TNA books,
I feel like next week we're gonna have trouble between
Fortune and Immortals and they're already gonna start teasing a
break up there. You know, That's that's just the way
I feel based on TNA's history of booking big groups
or even the tag teams. So have they earned the
trust of the casual fan to get them to tune

(01:31:37):
in to get the you know, one point nine million
or however many they got last night based on early SMAs.
Can they get them to tune in again and again
and again, and can they keep this story intriguing?

Speaker 11 (01:31:51):
I you know, I don't know, but in Gregg, you
nailed the good aspect of last night's show, which is
that they were focused. They obviously knew what story they're
trying to get over. My problem is that I disagree
the story and what story they should be getting over.
To me, it's I mean, if you're gonna sustain viewership
and interest in your product, it's got If you're doing

(01:32:13):
a wrestling show and wrestling is part of the title.
Last time I checked, it's gonna be about getting those
stars over who can have a wrestling match, and you're
on a quest for something, and in the context of wrestling,
it's the title, it's championship, it's glory, it's opportunity to
be the face of a company by holding the title,
and that was missing from ninety five percent of last

(01:32:35):
night's show.

Speaker 6 (01:32:44):
Are you a fan of AW looking to sit back,
relax and listen to some like minded podcasters who share
your passion. Do you want to be topped off the
ledge after a segment that has you wondering what the
heck are they thinking? Do you want to join a
discussion on what AW is doing right and what they
could do to improve? Then join me Joel and me
Greg for the All of the Conversation Club every Friday

(01:33:05):
on the PW Torch Live cast. Feed, search pw torch
in your podcast app and subscribe to PW torch Daily
Cast our streamer shows directly from pw torch dot com.
Find full details on the PW torch Dailycast lineup at
pw torchdailycast dot com.

Speaker 2 (01:33:30):
And go ahead of the One of the things that
one of the questions coming out of the show is, Okay,
what is the purpose of this bishof Hogan regime? Like
you said, the purpose, you know, I should always be
the titles, and they the only thing that I can
call up with was taking money. Jevin Hogan want to

(01:33:52):
make money. And is that enough of an incentive for
them to be a group? Is that incentive enough for
fans to again attach themselves to this emotionally, to this
angle and to this storyline.

Speaker 16 (01:34:09):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:34:10):
That's that's kind of a flimsy reason. And the the
thing I loved about that first segment, I know, here
we go bashing TNA again, and you know, I was
trying to keep things positive with my last remarks, but
here we go. The first segment, that twenty two minute segment,
interview segment there explained everything by explaining nothing. Bischoff said,

(01:34:32):
you know, I'm gonna go step by step through this
and tell you how it happened. Well he didn't. He didn't.
He didn't reveal anything. He talks about abusin Hogan, how
they were best friends and then they were brutal through
your what I means and now their best friends again
to be brought them out. Well, you're going to step
by step and explaining that, but you're not explaining the

(01:34:53):
motives behind it. You're not explaining how that develops. You're
not explaining what the motivation was for Abist to do it.
We're not explained how they fooled the sands and you
know how they got together to do this. It was
like he said he was gonna explain everything away, step
by step, but by the end of the segment, I'm like, Okay,
let's take a look back at every each week's impact

(01:35:14):
and see if we can see the seeds being planted.
And did Bishoff explain any of those seeds. No, he didn't,
and it was he just used a lot of buzzwords
like hostile takeover and things like that that in the
the fans who don't think about it said, oh, yeah,
that makes sense. It was a hostile take over by
Bishop and Hogan off from the beginning, Well, you know,

(01:35:34):
when you look at the on a micro level, explain
what happened week by week and to see if that
made sense. And they didn't even do that.

Speaker 11 (01:35:44):
I'm gonna use Way's analogy that he uses of TNA
kind of knocking over the cones on the way toward
a destination and what this basically was in that opening segment,
because you're right right, I mean, they didn't really explain anything.
It was just a lot of talk. But what that
the segment was was them trying to look back at
all the cones they knocked over and trying to figure

(01:36:06):
out what exactly they knocked over. And they couldn't make
sense of it, you know, because they they had without
any skill or or sense of pacing. They just marched
through this and try to put something together on the
last night's show, Uh, that didn't really have any chance
of making sense. You know, you just kind of looking,
you know, you kind of looking at it visually. They're
turned around trying to look at all the cones and knocked over,

(01:36:29):
and they can't see what they knocked over because they're
on the ground by now. So it's just you know,
like you said, Greg, it was a it was a
lot of talk, and I don't know that they made
sense of any of it. You know that they tried
to do some of the miss test Maker where uh
they kind of halfway revealed that she had been tipping

(01:36:50):
off Nash to what was really going on because Nash
buddied up to her. So I mean that was that
was one thing they tried to do with that explanation
of last night's show. But and that makes a little
bit of sense, But that was one thing, and there's
so many other things you went back on and say, Okay,
that doesn't.

Speaker 1 (01:37:06):
Really make sense.

Speaker 11 (01:37:07):
It's almost what we're probably gonna run into with rod
GM when that's revealed, and it doesn't make any sense.
And there's no way to go back through every week
and say, Okay, that makes sense, that makes sense, that
makes sense. It's just not gonna happen. So it is
what it is. And any other question I follow.

Speaker 28 (01:37:23):
Up, Yeah, you were talking about the whole promo the
bishop did At first. I think they were almost counting
on people that were watching last night, hoping and praying
that they didn't watch. When all this started to get up.

Speaker 11 (01:37:40):
There is there no way that it would.

Speaker 28 (01:37:43):
Have made any sense that I had. One last question.
I thought Jeff Hardy was a lot better healed than
I thought.

Speaker 2 (01:37:51):
He was going to be.

Speaker 28 (01:37:52):
I just wanted to hear your guys taking from that.

Speaker 11 (01:37:54):
Yeah, great call Ian, Greg. What was your reaction to
Hardy's first night as a full plush shield.

Speaker 2 (01:38:01):
I've been hearing a lot of people say that he
did better on the mic at the heel than a
lot of people would have expected. I feel the same way,
although my expectations were so low because the guy seems
like a natural babyface and he just didn't have that
charisma on the mic as a baby face. So you're thinking, Okay, well,
how is he going to do as a heel when
he's worked so long as a baby face and his

(01:38:22):
mic work never improved, and now they're switching him completely
under navy degrees and now he's a heel. So it's
almost like you were thinking he was going to start
from scratch on the mic and start so low again.
But yeah, he did.

Speaker 11 (01:38:35):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:38:36):
I don't know what the long term proagnosis for him.
I'm willing to give it a shot. His backstage promo
I thought was interesting to counteract. I believe it was
Rob van Dam in the Ring. So I'm kind of
willing to see what the depth that they explore this
filled character and how he fits into the Hoving group,
because the character seems almost like, you know, he would

(01:39:00):
be the leader of some people groups, like a CM
punk type character, and yet he is part of Holgan
and Bischoff's group. So that's gonna be an interesting thing
to keep an eye on how he exactly fits into
that group.

Speaker 11 (01:39:12):
And I like that they're they're still kind of maintaining
the same character and they're just kind of going the
opposite way with it, unlike what we saw earlier this
year with aj Styles when he turned heel and you know,
we kept repeating storylines, uh, when he kind of joined
you know, kind of joined the Power, the Power group
being Rick Flair, uh, and they trained they change his

(01:39:32):
characters so much that they just became a Rick Flair knockoff.
And you know, he's kind of he's kind of worked
a little bit better with that now now that he's
not so much portrayed as as Flair Junior. But so
I was glad they didn't try to do something different
with Hardy that would be so different from you know,
kind of his bass as a character, so I thought
that helped as well. And he can kind of you know,

(01:39:53):
he's always that sort of that dark figure, and that's
kind of what made him attractive to uh, the females
and in the kids. He was kind of this a
dark little or character, so they're able to kind of
pivot off that and go the opposite direction. That's that's
I think that's one reason why that works so well
last night, and it not worked so well. I mean
it was it was one of the things where you're
coming in with all expectations and they were exceeded. So

(01:40:15):
it's the weeks to come that will probably be the
that will give us more of an indication of whether
this can work long term. So we'll see definitely. Ian
woul appreciate the call. Let's go to the nine to
one four area code nine one four. Welcome to the show,
Please station him where you're from?

Speaker 29 (01:40:32):
How's going?

Speaker 23 (01:40:32):
Is Jouney from New York?

Speaker 11 (01:40:34):
Hey, Johnny, what do you have for a set?

Speaker 23 (01:40:36):
I got a question, you know, about the Matt Hardy
release or whatnot. I'm not sure what his contract situation was,
but let's just say he does have the same as
everybody else, the ninety day complete.

Speaker 29 (01:40:44):
Cause two questions about that.

Speaker 23 (01:40:46):
Number one, what are the chances that he.

Speaker 2 (01:40:49):
You know, that he might just forget about that and
go to TNA.

Speaker 23 (01:40:52):
And if he does, let's just say he goes next week.

Speaker 11 (01:40:54):
I know that probably won't happen. But what the repercussions
if he does just start right away?

Speaker 14 (01:40:59):
Great?

Speaker 11 (01:40:59):
You want going to pick that first?

Speaker 2 (01:41:01):
If there is a ninety day non compty know any
asy as or lawyer you have, and most wrestlers do
have that when they look over contracts, who will tell you,
you know, don't go to the company. And I don't
know that. I don't know the rules for negotiating. I'm
sure he can because he's been released, he can negotiate
a contract with TNA. I'm not sure that they could

(01:41:25):
get him in that early based on his release date.
Otherwise it was kind of looked like tampering. But I
would think that WWE would would go to court to
get an injunction on him if he if he does
show up before the ninety days, and then you're gonna
get into a whole legal mess w W and TNA.

(01:41:45):
And that's something TNA really at the States does not
want so it would be in their best interest, in
really Matt Harry's best interest financially and for his future
in TNA if he did not show up until the
ninety day non compete was done. I know he's probably
hitting to show up and and you know, and do
what he can as early as possible, but PNA is

(01:42:07):
gonna tell him, you know, we got to play by
the rules here and you can't show up before you're
non copied them.

Speaker 11 (01:42:13):
I could imagine them perhaps airing some this being T
and A. I can imagine them airing maybe some mysterious
vignettes on on TV, you know, kind of aimed at
Jeff Hardy, like you know, Big Brothers watching you or
you know, something like that where you can kind of
tint for and maybe play this on TV, you know,

(01:42:35):
eight nine, ten weeks in a row. And then I
guess that the January pay per view, I mean that
would depending on when the January of pay per view is,
that probably within that probably be passed the ninety days,
depending on what day the pay per view is on January,
That's when Hardy could could debut in TNA if he
doesn't sign with the company, and there's a lot of
other health issues involved with Hardy that I mean, KNA

(01:42:57):
is taking on someone who you know, has you know,
whether he well, you know, he claims that he was
trying to get himself fired, but there are documented health issues.
I mean, just looking at his YouTube videos, that's documentation
right there. So assuming that he does go to TNA,
I mean I could see them kind of doing some
sort of video packages where they don't really they don't

(01:43:20):
show Hardy, they don't use his name or his lightness.
They just kind of air these vignettes aim at Jeff
and and the audience can kind of figured out what's
going on. So that's one way to kind of keep
him in and keep him visible. Because I agree with you, Greg,
I don't see him going and I don't see him
trying to break the ninety day clause, and it lets
stump to me just outright ways that which I highly

(01:43:42):
doubt they would do, you know, unless with some of
with Kurt Angle. I mean, Kurt Angles showed up on
TNA within a month of being released from WB different circumstances.
But we don't know the terms of Hardy's release, but
we assume that it was a ninety day no compete
clause in there, so you know, I can see some vignettes.
I don't see him a period in the flesh though.
I just I don't see that happening. And unless DNA

(01:44:04):
really wants legal trouble, and at this point I don't
think they do. So Johnny and the other.

Speaker 23 (01:44:09):
Question or follow Yeah, I was thinking the same thing.
I mean, if TNA they can really play this really smart,
they can have somebody like a Shannon Moore who came.

Speaker 11 (01:44:16):
In with uh.

Speaker 23 (01:44:17):
With Jeff Hardy, you know he's still a stage can
had him confront Jeff Hardy backstage and do I do
you know what are you doing? Your brother, you know,
is upset with you, and keep playing it up and
maybe have like Jeff Hardy, I mean Matt Hardy come
in with some of the OMEGA guys like you know,
like Greg Helms or whatnot. Do you think that when
he does get brought and do you think that he
would he would go against his brother or they would
probably like have another swerve and have Matt th Artie

(01:44:39):
join his brother or one Now, what would you do
with Matt Ardy's character?

Speaker 1 (01:44:42):
Uh?

Speaker 11 (01:44:43):
You never know. The TNA they might have it start
off or where Matt's confronting Jeff and then all of
a sudden they hug and middle of the ring and
then you know, fingerpoking, doom and all that sort of deal. Greg,
what's happened to the way that that Hardy does come
in at the beginning of the year. That's kind of
TNA is big twenty eleven acquisition, acquisition. How do you
see them incorporating Matt into the storylines?

Speaker 2 (01:45:05):
Well, my first instinct is to have them oppose his brother,
but we know how well that feud went over in WWE,
although at the time it was kind of a square
peg trying to fit into a round hole as far
as Matt Hardy kind of at the last minute being
a replacement for Christian in that storyline of you know,
who ran Jeff Hardy off the road and who is

(01:45:26):
who is the agitator and whatnot, and that feud didn't
have a lot of life to it because the fans
just didn't want to see the two brothers go at it.
Although now their roles are reversed. He's got Jeff Hardy
playing the heel, Matt playing the babysface, which he's better
at playing and from first blush Jeff is bad at
the heel, So this has potential to work better than

(01:45:47):
then the feud in WW between the brothers. And the
other thing to think about is the group that are
opposing the Hogan group. That's a group because because the
Hogan group has the player and the styles and the
Hogan and I mean it's got a lot of big names,
the Babyface side have to appear at least nearly as
strong to give fans hope that they that they will

(01:46:09):
take down the Hogan group. Otherwise you're gonna have an
nWo situation where they become the you know, they become
cheered more than the other group. And I think putting
Matt Hardy, perennial fan favorite in that group with the
Rod van Dam, with the mister Anderson, I think that
will help that group immensely more so than he would
be able to help the Heal group.

Speaker 11 (01:46:29):
Yeah, you bring up a good point, which is something
that stood out to me during that opening segment, which is,
you know, we're the tivvy faces to oppose this group.
It's you got Pope who you know, good babyface not
a top babyface yet. Don't know if he ever will
be he could you never know. Anderson injured concussion, you know,

(01:46:54):
there's that will play on next week's show. But is
he your lead babyface? You know, I may, I don't know,
not quite that.

Speaker 2 (01:47:02):
I don't see him as a lead baby face as
I don't.

Speaker 11 (01:47:06):
Yeah, yeah, it's it's one of those things where you know,
he's a I don't know if it needs to get older.
You know, some guys kind of look more like main
event top stars when they get older, maybe look change.
I don't know what it is. It's just it's not
that top guy hit factor yet for Anderson. And I know,

(01:47:26):
and I kind of agree with so on that Greg.
I could see it one day, but right now, no,
I mean him and Pope kind of about the same level.
Some up with Joe, you know, so much damage to
that character. Uh you know, like you said the top
of the show, Greg, it might turn into words his
fortune turning on the immortals and that's what are you know,

(01:47:47):
the big feuds. And I just don't know it works.
I mean, you kind of have those baby faces who
are ready to go, and Tiena did not do that
aspect of the storytelling, which was get strong babyfaces ready
to oppose this group. I mean Pope and Anderson and
Joe RVD, Harbady is just he just not a tough guy.
He's not a top face.

Speaker 2 (01:48:08):
I kind of think they're setting him up as the
top baby face of the group of posian Tha. I mean,
do you agree that? Is that where you think they're
at it?

Speaker 11 (01:48:16):
Yeah, But I don't see money in that, you know,
I don't see that being a strong enough program in RVD,
good worker, in capable of an exciting match. But he
just doesn't He doesn't have that sort of he doesn't
have one of those characteristics that you see in Encina
or Orton or or Austin of the Rock back in
the day or Angle back in the day.

Speaker 2 (01:48:39):
Yeah, unless they have Angel come back as the leader
of this group, who obviously a post crap carrot. I
think a ban Dam's their best back right now, which
is another of the guys there.

Speaker 11 (01:48:51):
Yeah, he probably is. I just you know that that
baby face promo that he had when he first came
back Teina just sticks to my money because it was
so bad sometimes just you know, sort of an off
night and it was poorly produced. But he just he
doesn't evoke that sort of like rallied behind the White
Flag of TNA kind of emotion. It's kind of like, Oh,

(01:49:13):
he's kind of cool and he does some cool stuff,
but I'm not really emotionally invested in the storylines. He's
just a lot of times it just seems too cool,
too cool for school, and I just, you know, maybe
the collective unit, you know, it's sort of the some
of the parts is greater than the individual parts. And
lead baby faces and you put Joe and Angle and

(01:49:34):
Angle when he comes back, and you put Joe and
Anderson and Pope and RBD together. I don't know, maybe
you have something, Greg, what about the machine guys? You
think they could be elevated through this, perhaps revisiting the
few with beer money and having that seem more relevant,
perhaps being part of a bigger picture of feud the
second time around.

Speaker 1 (01:50:01):
You don't have to wait for the way Keller Pro
Wrestling post show to find out what I thought of
Monday Night Raw and SmackDown. Each week, you can check
out my reports that are updated live throughout Raw and
SmackDown at pwtorch dot com. My written report will tell
you what's happening in detail. In case you missed the show,
and it will also analyze key segments and give my
random thoughts quips on what I am watching as it airs.

(01:50:23):
So check it out every Monday night and Tuesday night
at pewtorch dot com. That also applies to wwepayperviews. I
cover those live at pw torch dot com with a
detailed written report with star ratings, and of course you
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torch such as nxt roh, Impact Wrestling and more. Check
it out pwtorch dot com your first stop for TV

(01:50:46):
and pay per views written reports.

Speaker 2 (01:50:57):
I think as good as their feud with Beer moneylaws
you're risking now by going back to that again so early.
I think they'll be busy with Team three D for
a while because we know Team three D obviously is
not it's not going to be retiring. But I think
eventually down the line, depending on how long TNAH goes

(01:51:19):
at this angle, I think they could factor in somewhere.
I just don't see another team besides Beer Money that
they could take on and really and really feud with.

Speaker 7 (01:51:29):
There.

Speaker 2 (01:51:32):
You know this is this is I'm fearing main event
Mafia versus the problem here with this fut where it'll
degenerating too. Eventually the immortals unfortunate feuding amongst themselves rather
than feuding with the baby faith group that's supposed to
be opposing them, and eventually the seating them. And you
know that's what I'm afraid is going to happen. We'll

(01:51:53):
see if TNA has learned from their mistakes that they've
that they have done in the past.

Speaker 11 (01:52:00):
Well, let's mean choo the p tow Torch Live cast
the assist P to B Torch Assistant editor James Caldwell
Ostin today joined by Torch calmbus Greg Parks, And let's
go back to the phone lines. Let's go to the
seven eight six eerie code seven eight six. Welcome to
the show. Please stay Jame where you're from? Seven eight six.
You're on the air. All right, We'll try you again

(01:52:24):
later on. Let's go to the four one five eerie
code four one five. Welcome to the show, Please stay,
jam where you're from?

Speaker 15 (01:52:31):
What's going on?

Speaker 18 (01:52:31):
Guys with Jonathans and Jamsisco.

Speaker 30 (01:52:33):
Hey, Jonathan, what do you have first say? I'm just
h PNA last night good show for the most part,
because it was actually like you know, they was actually.

Speaker 11 (01:52:44):
Stayed on story topic, and but.

Speaker 19 (01:52:47):
I just didn't like like how Dixie Carter was kind
of portrayed because it's pretty much that's what everybody thinks
what really happens in TNA. You go to Dixie Carter,
that you get her to find something, and you know,
she gets played.

Speaker 1 (01:53:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 11 (01:53:01):
Yeah, that's something that's been an issue for me watching
the storyline play out. Jonathan. You bring him a good
point there. It's just sort of one of those things
where it's not really uncomfortable. I mean it can be
at times when when when her acting kind of dominates
the show, but it's just not a realistic portrayal of
someone who owns a company.

Speaker 19 (01:53:22):
You know.

Speaker 11 (01:53:22):
It's just that they present her as if she has
no credibility, no common sense, which you know some people
in that company might think. But when when you have
the ability to control the character the way to portray her,
I just think it's just not productive and I don't
think it's efficient. Greg. What's your take on on how
they present U Dixie in terms of, you know, the

(01:53:43):
credibility that she does not have as a character and
just the overall presentation of her as a character.

Speaker 2 (01:53:50):
I don't know if the fact that she doesn't have
much credibility the characters let sticks and fans of minds
as much as she's the person portrayed as, you know,
kind of doing everything for the effort and being there
for the wrestlers who can forget when Evy two, you know,
brought her into the ring and the thank you Dixie
chance and hoisting her above their shoulders as their fearless leader.

(01:54:12):
And I think that's that's more of the Dixie that
a lot of the fans think of when they think
of the Dixie Curd character, as opposed to the kind
of like a shrewdness she shows. As a business person.

Speaker 16 (01:54:28):
You know, Eric.

Speaker 2 (01:54:29):
Bischoff has been portrayed as this, you know, slimy kind
of guy who knows all the tricks in the books.
So him putting one over on Dixie as far as
signing something that she didn't think she was signing, while
in hindsight you think of, you know, how can someone
who runs a business just do that? But she was
under the grass Abyss abducted her, and it's not like
she was just asleep at the switch and was you know,

(01:54:50):
in her desking donuts and this came across her. That's
because she flippantly signed it without thinking about it.

Speaker 31 (01:54:56):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:54:56):
There was a reason why she signed the apparently signed
over the company unknowingly to Eric Bischoff, and that was
because she was so distraught over the situation, which was
dainful to watch in its own right.

Speaker 11 (01:55:09):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:55:09):
So, you know, I think there aren't times where she
she's shown as a bit clueless, but overall, I think
she's shown as someone who uh looks out for the
fans and does things for the fans first and foremost,
at least that's the lip service they give.

Speaker 11 (01:55:27):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree with you and that I
think one of the things that that that bothered me
about the reveal is how do you explain Old Cogan
kind of endorsing EV two? If if EV two was
endorsed by Dixie Carter, you know, how do you reconcile that?
And you know, they can't explain everything, or I'm sorry,

(01:55:49):
they can't try to explain everything in one show, but
that's something that has to be explained if EV two
is gonna stick around, which there was a.

Speaker 2 (01:55:57):
Part on last night's show where one of the guys
that remembers of Fortune or maybe was someone who came
to the ring said that they made Hogan say all
those nice things about They didn't directly reference Ead too,
but they mentioned that that bunch of wrestlers over the
Hill wrestlers or what ever come in and they had
Hogan kiss their part or something like that. So it

(01:56:20):
did make it sound like, you know, it was a
director from Dixie for Hogan to go out there and
kind of compliment them, or he was doing it against.

Speaker 16 (01:56:26):
His will or whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:56:27):
So that's that's the tone I took from that. That part.
It was just a brief mention, but they did kind
of sort of address.

Speaker 12 (01:56:36):
That a little.

Speaker 2 (01:56:37):
I think. Yeah.

Speaker 11 (01:56:39):
To me, the problem is that they're trying to put
it all under the umbrella of it was a master playing.
You know, everything was a swerve or everything was set
up to look a certain way when an actuality put
it out this way and then just you know, no
sophistication would happened the past. I mean, the biggest example
to me is that, you know, Abyss and Jeff Hardy
were having his blood Brawl and what feud order this

(01:57:01):
year and they were on house shows opposing each other,
So you know, how do you reconcile them trying to
kill each other in the context of a storyline, when
now they're lying together. You know, how do you explain it?

Speaker 2 (01:57:14):
I really, I really hate to defend DNA again, but
I will try and explain this one. I think Bischoff,
I think did say, and I only know that because
it's freshen my minds. They just left it. I did
say that it took a while to get Hardy to
come over there trying to convince them, you know, to
come to their side. So that may have been a
situation where they recruited him after this started talking about

(01:57:36):
day and they recruited him after that series of matches
in that feud where it was kind of that wasn't
in play from the beginning, but as they developed behind
the scenes, they were able to bring in Jeff party
and keep it quiet. I don't know, I'm trying here.

Speaker 11 (01:57:53):
Those are good points, and to me, with so much
they're trying to do a last side show with that
opening stone, I think a lot of those things, if
you know, if you can buy into that and you're
making points, Greg, all that was lost or kind of
washed over the audience because so much time was spent
just talking and talking and talking that there really wasn't

(01:58:14):
you know, this show had a central focus. You know,
obviously it was very focused on Day and the immortals
and fortune, but that segment itself did not have a
central focus. They're trying to you know, again, it goes
to the pacing. You know, this is something they could
have explained over a series of weeks if they really
wanted to have this be their central storyline for a
number of weeks, explain it over time and not just

(01:58:37):
trying to throw it all out there at the audience
where you just don't know how to how to make
sense of it. You don't know what the main takeaway is.
Even Jeff Hardy's you know, first yeal promo was kind
of you know, I don't number thirteen in the list
of things to get over. In that opening segment, he
just kind of came out there and he had a
quick segment and then they went back to talking about
domination and power and the master up playing and all that.

(01:58:59):
It goes to pace and Tenna does not have pacing,
and that's one of the issues of why that's kind
of just washed over the audience, and you know, you
make good points, Greg, and those are all plausle explanations.
I can buy that. It's just I don't think anyone
really took that away. And that's unfortunate because if they
have a good story, they got to know how to
tell it, and that they just don't and we see

(01:59:19):
that time after time. So, uh, John said, let's go
back to you. Did you have another question to follow up?

Speaker 2 (01:59:26):
Yeah?

Speaker 11 (01:59:27):
Just two quick ones. Uh say, Wow, why span.

Speaker 19 (01:59:29):
Ten thousand dollars for her to almost break Thanky Baylor's neck?
Because Thanky Baylor's neck was hanging off the apron kind
of like like in a really awkward way, and she
was like, you know, doing the whole earthly thing with
the swing and her head up and down. I was like,
why ain't no one stopping this, like ten thousand dollars
to break you know, this lady's neck?

Speaker 11 (01:59:48):
And then and then Matt Hardy.

Speaker 19 (01:59:50):
Uh, why didn't WW like get rid of Matt Hardy
a long time ago instead of waiting until you know Friday?

Speaker 11 (01:59:59):
Good question, Let's start with j. Well, so, but you
think for uh beat on the show that that was
kind of the stiffest. There was no restlan The last
side shows that was kind of the stiffest looking, uh
intering action a Last Night show with Jay Well slamming Uh,
you know Cookie, Becky Beyles's neck against the edge of

(02:00:21):
the apron over and over again. So Greg, which what
was your reaction her on the show.

Speaker 2 (02:00:26):
I'm not a Santa Jersey Shore by any stretch. Let's
just let's just leave it at that. So this, this
disappearance is nothing for me. Uh, this is what happens
when you get non wrestlers in a dominant position over wrestlers.
You run the risk of them not knowing how to
do a move or how to take a move, and

(02:00:48):
even something as simple as bouncing someone's head off the canvas.
And I don't think there's been any reports out there
of Cookie sustaining any serious injuries from this, which is
the design, but it's always a risky run when you
put non wrestlers in that position and haven't trained them
well enough on how to do things correctly, make it

(02:01:11):
look good without hurting somebody. If it's too light, you
end up with a Charmel versus Jenna match And.

Speaker 15 (02:01:21):
Oh yeah, I went there.

Speaker 1 (02:01:22):
I went there.

Speaker 2 (02:01:23):
But if you do it they're too stiff, you end
up playing.

Speaker 1 (02:01:26):
Something something like that.

Speaker 2 (02:01:27):
So you know, that's again, if you want the publicity,
the risk you run is getting someone hurt like that.
And again I haven't heard that she's been hurt, but
it certainly looked pretty brutal.

Speaker 11 (02:01:43):
I can't I don't know if I can move on
the show now. All the painful memories are coming back
from that match Matt Hardy.

Speaker 2 (02:01:52):
It was was that Okay, sorry, sorry, let's go to
Matt Hardy.

Speaker 11 (02:01:56):
No, it is an apical application. I mean, it is
an epical analogy. So I'll give you that, Greg, But
men Hardy. You know, I don't know what it is
with with why w W waited so long. I think
part of it maybe they wanted to kind of cool
them off by by you know, kind of taking him
off TV for a couple of weeks before they released him,
so he was in the middle of a hot angle.

Speaker 1 (02:02:18):
Uh, and it kind.

Speaker 11 (02:02:19):
Of allowed the audience to forget about him.

Speaker 2 (02:02:21):
Uh.

Speaker 11 (02:02:22):
That might be one reason. Another reason could be that
they wanted maybe they wanted a little bit more control
over so the messages that Hardy was putting out there
kind of a quiet weak from Hardy relatively, I guess
on YouTube and maybe they figured out, you know, Friday
afternoon kind of released dump and dumped that news out
there on a Friday when it's kind of been a

(02:02:44):
quiet week for Hardy. Those are my two, you know,
thoughts on why they might have waited so on to
release him. What's your take on it, Greg, Well, let's.

Speaker 2 (02:02:52):
Remember that WWE has been very busy lately pay per views,
live shows, and overseas shows back to back to back,
so they've been busy worried about the getting things all
set up for the pay per views and things like that.
So it could be a situation where they just didn't
have time to sit down, take a brack and look
at the Matt Hardy situation and really decide what to do. However,

(02:03:15):
when you weigh that again, how much leeway and Matt
has gotten? Is this for any other wrestler? I can't
help but think they would have been gone after the
first YouTube posting saying they wanted out in mentioning TNA.
So I think Matt did get quite a bit of
leeway here, and he did make a point that it
was very difficult to get released like WWE, and I
think that speaks to I would take that if I

(02:03:38):
was Matt as a compliment because he really did not
want to release him, I don't think, because you know,
even in the shape he was in lately, he's a
good hand in the rain of the veteran and to
work with the younger guys, and he's still getting them
the kind of house show pops that you want for
a babyface, even in the condition he's in, and even

(02:04:01):
in the shape he's in, and even at the level
on the card that he's in. So combine those factors
and I think WWE kind of wanted to hold out
as long as they could and see if anything could
be fixed in the relationship. And when it became obvious that,
you know, after YouTube posting, answer, YouTube posting, Twitter posting,
after Twitter posting, it became obvious that the relationship was

(02:04:22):
quite likely beyond repair for the time being, and they
figured it was best to get rid of them. And yes,
it was Friday afternoon again, just like it was I
think on the last the lot of big dump they had,
because I believe we were on the show when that happened,
or it was either that or Carlito's release. I think
I was on the show when both of those were happening.

(02:04:42):
So Friday afternons do seem to be the popular time
for releases by w w A. And it's weird because
it's not like this is the traditional media where you
usually dump things on Friday so they don't get reported
over the weekend. There is no big day of reporting,
are a big hour for reporting for pro wrestling, so

(02:05:05):
it's kind of odd that they wait till that time.

Speaker 11 (02:05:07):
To do it.

Speaker 2 (02:05:09):
But yeah, that sure is a something that we see
over and over again that the Friday afternoon seems to
be this popular time.

Speaker 32 (02:05:22):
I'm Kelly Wells, host of the Seven Star podcast, the
new ongoing Torch show covering the world of New Japan
pro wrestling. We'll drop new episodes as major shows and
noteworthy events dictate, and I'm Chris Lansdow join us as
we covered the ever changing landscape of New Japan as
they navigate an era with no lack of talent.

Speaker 19 (02:05:42):
But I really need to create some new stars. You
can stream the new Seven Stop podcasts now from Pro
Wrestling Torch.

Speaker 11 (02:05:58):
Yeah. Yeah. The one thing that also comes to mind
is perhaps they were kind of waiting to make sure
that if they released him, that his health was okay
to where he wouldn't go off and and get him
get himself into trouble. And then especially the liniment man
in the campaign season, Uh, you know, have some news

(02:06:19):
come out that you know, Hardy got into trouble or
something like that, and say, well, it wasn't this guy
just under your contract?

Speaker 2 (02:06:24):
And well the risk you run of course by keeping
him around if he does something under contract.

Speaker 11 (02:06:29):
Sure, yeah, I agree with that, and I perhaps there
was a way to keep tabs on him. You know,
if we keep him around, we can keep tabs on
him to make sure that he's all good. So if
we do release and then we kind of kind of
lose track of him, you know what I mean. And
by keeping him in in the tent under the umbrella,

(02:06:50):
we can still monitor what he's up to and help
ensure that nothing does happen. So maybe it's a good sign.
Maybe it's a good sign that they believe that Hardy's
health is okay for the time being, they thought they
could go ahead and release him. I don't know, man,
that's that could be one thing, and hopefully we'll find
out more about it. But no, you're right on your
point as well. Greg. Definitely let's go to seven two

(02:07:13):
four area code seven two four. Welcome to the show.
Please say you name where you're from.

Speaker 15 (02:07:18):
Hey James Saint Greg. This is Dave from Pittsburgh.

Speaker 11 (02:07:20):
Hey David.

Speaker 1 (02:07:21):
For a sent.

Speaker 15 (02:07:24):
I wanted to talk a little bit about the well,
two things actually, but the first thing I want to
talk about was don't see that an excess angle?

Speaker 11 (02:07:31):
Sure?

Speaker 15 (02:07:32):
I actually kind of liking this angle.

Speaker 1 (02:07:37):
You know.

Speaker 15 (02:07:37):
The only thing that I would I would change. I
think some people had talked about it earlier in the
week in the last cast was I think slowly, not
all at once, but maybe a little bit week by week.
Therett needs to make Seina wearing an excess shirt, maybe
change his appearance, make he needs to make, you know,

(02:08:00):
like start coming out to the Nexus music so where
it's like a total takeover Sena and but like the
key element is semen Seena can't turn heel. I think
that Sena has a great heel turn in them.

Speaker 11 (02:08:15):
But not right now.

Speaker 15 (02:08:17):
I think that they need to keep him like in
a heel faction but being a total baby face, like
against the struggle. And if they can you know, play
this out for a long time, maybe not, you know,
maybe till rural Rumble or something that area. I think
it could turn out to be a really good angle
that I'll actually make Seena's character character a lot fresher

(02:08:41):
and then also obviously elevate Barrett and hopefully maybe a
few other of the Nexus guys.

Speaker 11 (02:08:48):
Yeah, great points. I think they haven't done enough with
Sena as a heel yet, you know, I mean, I'm
sorrying not out of the heel, but as a member
of Nexus. They haven't done enough with that character that
opportunity yet. He is still kind of coming out through
his own sort of you know, colors and entrance music
and still opposing heels like them is the main event. Greg,
what's your quick take on that.

Speaker 2 (02:09:10):
Yeah, I think it's a bit surprising that that the
advocating of Sina to not turn heel right now. I
agree with that, But a lot of the fans are
just clambering for that heel turn that they've been waiting
for for for years, and I think it is best
probably to hold off a little while longer, and I
think you can milk it a little while longer. So
I agree with that, and I also agree that you know,

(02:09:33):
John Cena coming out in his gear to his music
with one small Nexus armband is just not doing it
for me, and I hope the plan is too. You
know that. You know, each week he gets mbarrassed, nerves
even more by doing little things to annoying him. And
each week Barrett its punishment forces him to become more
and more like like a member of Nexus, and I

(02:09:56):
hope that's where they're going with it. But you know,
WW obviously has money to make as far as merchandise
and seen as new purple and yellow colors that come
out relatively recently, and I'm sure they want to milk
that as well for as long as they can. And
by him not wearing it, the image of him and

(02:10:17):
that is, you know, fading from kids' memories and they
don't want to wear something that you know, their hero
isn't wearing. So that's something they also have to weigh.
And I'm sure that was one of the first things
that was discussed when they talked about having seen him
join Nexus is okay, how far do we go as
far as how far indoctrinated into Nexus do we allow

(02:10:40):
him to become.

Speaker 11 (02:10:43):
Exactly And we'll see how that plays out. I mean,
Barrett might get more aggressive as a character, forcing seen
him do things. Some of the JBL Seawn Michael's programming
eventually came down to where they remember they took away
his music or JBL took away Michael's music, so that
that might be where they're going, and they're slowly building
toward that. LC good call, appreciate that. Let's go to

(02:11:03):
the three four seven area code three four to seven.
Welcome to show, Please stay you name where you're from?

Speaker 29 (02:11:08):
My name is christin Goodlyn, New York.

Speaker 11 (02:11:10):
Hey, Chris, what are you at?

Speaker 29 (02:11:11):
First said, well, basically that's want to give my opinion
on Matt Hardy as far as him wanting on Abe,
my opinion is, I think the main reason he wants
out is because he doesn't want to adhere to a
drug polsey, just like Indulla. I mean, let's stay stacks
at both drug addicts. You know they don't want to
here to a drug policy. That's why they want to leave,

(02:11:32):
and that's what's that's what's happening.

Speaker 20 (02:11:34):
Basically, my opinion on thost two.

Speaker 11 (02:11:36):
Guys, I agree with you to a certain a certain respect,
but he you know, he has not fill to wellness
policy test, so you know that's not there even though
there are obvious signs.

Speaker 1 (02:11:48):
That there are issues.

Speaker 11 (02:11:51):
On those YouTube videos. For a long time there are issues,
he has not felt a wellness a wellness policy test,
so it's hard to say that it's because of that,
you know, based on YouTube videos. I would agree with
your point. We just don't have the proof or the
the wellness violation issue in places like Jeff forty. Did

(02:12:11):
I mean Jeff forty had two violations miss WrestleMania, Matt
does not, the best of my knowledge, Matt does not
have one. Sou drag. What's your take on this?

Speaker 2 (02:12:21):
I think more so than lying to avoid the wellness
policy because let's face say, he's adhered to it for
since its inception, because he's been there that long, I believe,
I think it's more that he's not happy with his
place on the roster. He's a guy who at this
stays in his career. I'm sure based on his push
years ago, felt that he was going to continue climbing
the ladder and eventually start main eventing. Well, his career

(02:12:44):
has kind of been stagnant for for a few years,
and he's seen guys younger than him. Maybe, in his opinion,
how his talented as him jump over him and reset
that main events datas whether it be a Drew McIntyre
or you know, a shamment Or or Cody Rhoads. I
think he's just got tired of it and says, you know,

(02:13:06):
I want to see if I can reach my potential
before my top earning years that are gone. And I
think more so than the wellness policy, I think that
is the reason that Matt really wanted out.

Speaker 11 (02:13:19):
You're listening to the PW Torch live cast. This is
p TOB torchs Assistant editor James Caldwell with Torch Calma's
Greg parks about five minutes left in the show, so
we're gonna get to rapid fire. Her phone calls the
lightning round of the live cast. Want to go ahead
and plug the Torch VIP membership if you want to
get access to a lot of audio updates in the
last twenty four hours plus audio updates this weekend the

(02:13:42):
way Keller hotline. As that streak is up to about
one hundred and fifty or sixty straight days of Torch
editor Wait Keller's hotline. You can go to p TOB
Torch dot com slash go vip if you're not a
Torch VIP member. Otherwise, be sure to check out all
the news, analysis and features throughout the day on p
tow torch dot com. Let's go to some more phone calls.

(02:14:03):
Let's go to the six' five to One Aery. Cook
there we, go six five. One welcome to the. Show
please station him where you're?

Speaker 33 (02:14:09):
From, hey, guys this Is mike From, Woodburn. Minnesota how
you doing?

Speaker 20 (02:14:13):
Today?

Speaker 4 (02:14:13):
Great?

Speaker 11 (02:14:13):
Mike what do you?

Speaker 1 (02:14:14):
Have first?

Speaker 33 (02:14:14):
Thing, well first of, all The Matt hardy situation is very,
complex AND i think there's a hundred different reasons on his.
Release but ONE i think about the timing is he's
the kind of build By Matt striker and it's kind
of gay momentum that he's the heart and soul Of.
SmackDown SO i think it helped FOR ww to Established
SmackDown scie fy for the last couple of weeks Without

(02:14:34):
Matt hardy to kind of set that in motion. TOO
i think that had a, small small deal to do with.
It oh that's my opinion, Anyways and they're good.

Speaker 11 (02:14:46):
To start the, Camp go, ahead.

Speaker 33 (02:14:48):
Good i'm also just gonna start the. Campaign today's several
Montharily haku for THE Wwe hall Of fame Hack, oo
it's a, time.

Speaker 11 (02:14:59):
All right coo on the live. Cast very, good very,
good old school. Reference greg you Tveror. SmackDown you'll be
Covering SmackDown tonight on pptorch dot. Com, uh what do
you think?

Speaker 34 (02:15:11):
About?

Speaker 35 (02:15:11):
What?

Speaker 11 (02:15:11):
What What mike you have to say? About do you
think perhaps it was just a way to kind of
Remove hardy's lightness and image from the show before they
released him.

Speaker 2 (02:15:22):
AGAIN i don't know that ww we Considered Matt hardy
that big of a start to feel the need to
establish sci Fi SmackDown sci fi without. Him he has
his name has been attached To SmackDown for. YEARS i,
mean he had that brief run On, raw on The
raw brand before moving back over To. SmackDown so of
all the wrestlers on on Uh, SmackDown he's Got raymisterioh's

(02:15:44):
got The undertaker That he's got a lot of guys
ads the big, show guys who are really associated with The.
SmackDown i Think Matt hardy is right in that, Conversation
BUT i don't know IF i, mean here's A Nick
carter we. LOST i don't know if he's that strong
of a draw to the show WHERE ww felt the need.
To you, Know i've stablished the Tron Sci fi without
him before releasing. Him i'm not sure if that was

(02:16:07):
a major factor in ww's.

Speaker 11 (02:16:08):
Decision let's go to another phone. Call let's go to
the five to NINE erei code five. Nine, Welcome please
stitch him where you're? From, Hey jared From? Washington are
you going to the to The World Tour house show this?
WEEKEND i assure. Him AND i was just At yakama
last week AND i was at raw Last, Monday so.

(02:16:28):
Awesome we'll look forward to your. Report what do you
have for?

Speaker 1 (02:16:31):
Us?

Speaker 11 (02:16:31):
Say, yeah real? Quick do you THINK wv just could
have avoid this besides the, help besides the drug issues
With Matt hardy just seriously gave him a shot with
the world title a couple of years back and, said
you know, what you didn't.

Speaker 31 (02:16:44):
Work second thought you would.

Speaker 11 (02:16:45):
Have and, sorry we gave you a. CHANCE i think
they should have gave him a.

Speaker 2 (02:16:48):
Chance they could have avoid this whole.

Speaker 11 (02:16:49):
Situation not saying he would have been a top. Star
i'm just SAYING i saw no harm with his popularity
at one point to give him a, push and w
wouldn't have lost anything if it, failed if it just to,
see it's just more money for everybody all. Around what
do you, Think, greg what's your?

Speaker 2 (02:17:03):
Jake you, Know i'm an advocate of throwing the world
title once around a great while every five years or
so on someone, Unexpected AND i Think Matt hardy would
have been a fine candidate for a short, rain just
kind of test the. Waters BUT i don't think that
that would have that's, necessary AND i don't think that

(02:17:24):
would have BEEN i don't know that would have been
a deciding factor or, not BECAUSE i don't know that
he would have still been in the main events right
now if he had that title, Range So i'm not
sure if that would have done a longed for him
to help.

Speaker 11 (02:17:35):
Him one. Thing everyone for listening to The live cap.
Today checked back again On monday for the next.

Speaker 1 (02:17:41):
Edition thanks for downloading today's. Show take it to the
next level with A vip, membership get shows like, This
The Way Killer Prossing, Podcast Weight, Keller Prosing Post, show
and THE Pw torch daily casts on OUR Pw TORCH
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vip exclusive shows THAT i host With Rich fan And Todd,

(02:18:03):
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Membership so GO vip here in twenty twenty two and
enjoy all the, benefits all the bonus, content and the
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Speaker 13 (02:18:19):
Vip all, right since we have so many people on,
hold hopefully all of our listeners can still hear us

(02:18:41):
who are on.

Speaker 11 (02:18:41):
Hold we'll try to get in as many phone calls
as possible in the after show with as long As
Block Talk radio will let us stay on the. Air
so let's go ahead and try to squeeze in some
more phone calls here in the after, show let's go
to the four oh four area. Code four oh. Four
welcome to the. Show please Teach tom where you're.

Speaker 34 (02:18:59):
From, hey, guys this Is elliott From.

Speaker 11 (02:19:02):
Atlanta, hey what do you have for a?

Speaker 34 (02:19:04):
Sing missed feelings about everything that TEN a did last,
Night BUT i like Seeing Jeff hardy as a. Heel
just wanted to get yours on.

Speaker 11 (02:19:15):
That, Yeah, GREG i mean we talked a little bit
About harty as a heel. Today long term. Prospect is
he someone that could kind of build around as one
of their featured stars long term or is it just
sort of a well we needed, something we needed someone
to be part of our. Swerve we Picked, hardy uh
because he was in the title. Match what's your take on?
That the long term prospects Of hardy as a, Heel.

Speaker 2 (02:19:39):
Well if we're talking About Jeff hardy overall as, anything
it's it's a bit difficult to plan long term with
him because of the incidents that have confidence. Passed, uh
it appears they're not going to go to the cool
heel direction with, him at least at. First we did
a good time and that could help get him over
as a heel because someone Like, hardy who has only
played a baby faith throughout his career and his best

(02:20:00):
every strong, babyface you, know the heel turns are sometimes,
difficult AND i think the best way to do it
is to go on full on heel and not work
the cool heel. Angle and that appears what they're doing.
Now they had the kind of cheap you, know him
yelling at the fans saying it's their. Fault that he turned,
heel which is you, know kind of those desperation type

(02:20:21):
thing where if you don't know how to turn a guy,
heal you just have him yelled the crowd of the
chief heat and that's kind of what he did. There
but you, Know i'm willing to see where this character
goes as far as the long term getting him. OVER
i don't know if WHAT tna has long term plans

(02:20:41):
for this angle or for that, character but you, KNOW
i Hear. ELLIOTT i thought he did a fine, job
better THAN i expected as the heel of the first.
Week So i'm willing to give it a.

Speaker 11 (02:20:51):
Shot good, Toll, elliott good good topics to bring up,
there and kind of talk more about that in terms
of a Long trump. Perspective let's, uh let's go to
another phone. Call this is from the five one Seven
eric code five one, Seven welcome the, Show please stay
jam and we were From.

Speaker 27 (02:21:09):
Oh my name Is eric From.

Speaker 11 (02:21:10):
Michigan Hey, eric will first, Thing OH i got two.

Speaker 27 (02:21:15):
Things did anybody happen to Catch Dixie carter saying slug
shit About eric dish off on?

Speaker 11 (02:21:21):
Reaction? Yeah is she even mentioned on Her twitter, today
which is she kind of Thanks SPIKE tv for letting
her say, that.

Speaker 2 (02:21:31):
So Clise Dixie carter would go On twitter and Thanks
SPIKE tv for letting her slare that that's The Dixie
carter thing to.

Speaker 11 (02:21:37):
Do Classic dixie sweet To. Day, yeah you let her
have her charmel match. Eventually oh, no don't say. That
and the next thing, Is I'm i'm a huge ring
upon her. Fan And Kevin steen happens to be my favorite.
Wrestler he's in.

Speaker 27 (02:21:55):
An angle right now where it's been going on for
god knows how. LONG i was wondering what's gonna happen
with this whole mask VERSUS R O h.

Speaker 11 (02:22:04):
CAREER i kind of already know what's gonna, happen SO
i was told the finish. Already SO i, MEAN i
don't know IF i want to kind of give it.
Away it's almost kind of it hasn't really ruined it for,
me but BECAUSE i meaneguy going on to its final,
Battle but Good, greg did you have?

Speaker 27 (02:22:24):
Though you do give it away because it's freaking me
out not knowing what's gonna happen with my favorite.

Speaker 11 (02:22:28):
Wrestler you said you do or you don't want me
to give it?

Speaker 27 (02:22:32):
AWAY i DO i definitely, do because it's freaking me
out not knowing what's gonna happen and.

Speaker 11 (02:22:37):
How i'm gonna watch him and all in the mask
because the mask Makes Generico. Generico, Yeah generica is not,
Losing i'll put it that. Way he's not losing the.
Match and you saw what happened With Austin ares this last.
Week he is now With Dragon gate and the hottest

(02:23:00):
free agent and that sort of. Thing About january of twenty,
eleven we'll probably seeing the same thing With Kevin, stein
let's put it that. Way, so, yeah that's what's What
i've been. Told and things could. Change you never, know
things could change between now and then there's two.

Speaker 1 (02:23:16):
Months but, uh.

Speaker 11 (02:23:17):
That's WHAT i was, told is that it's, uh, yeah
that's what it. Is is it true that he at
one point did turn down.

Speaker 27 (02:23:25):
A wwe, Contract like he's gone on record saying OR.

Speaker 11 (02:23:31):
I haven't heard, That, greg have you heard anything on
you're talking About steen right Or? Generica, yeah it's.

Speaker 27 (02:23:36):
On, uh he's got it on one of his YouTube
channels where he talks about it in depth about how
they wanted him to come at at one point in.
Time feud With silvan grandier as This french.

Speaker 11 (02:23:47):
Battle and, WOW i haven't heard that, Before, greg do
you remember.

Speaker 2 (02:23:52):
THAT i don't, know that's the First i've heard of.
It far be it for me to accuse wrestlers of
works in the. Fans but that is also a really
good way to get, heat either you, know positive or
negative from the fans here in the company with and
to get yourself over as a star is to say

(02:24:12):
that you turned down a contract FROM wwa OR t AND.
A so, yeah that could all well be very, true
but you, know you got to take it with a
grain of. Salt there's always, wrestlers especially the older wrestlers
who you, know do interviews now and they, say, oh,
yeah ww wanted me to come in a few months,
ago BUT i didn't really like the idea they asked,
me you, know trying to pump themselves up as more

(02:24:34):
than they. Are so wrestling as a business built on
those kinds of stories and those kinds of. Lives, so
while not Doubting steen and it sounds, plausible always take
stuff like that with a grain of.

Speaker 11 (02:24:45):
Salt, Eric, Yeah, eric you fell off. Us, NO i
think that'd be. It thank you very much for answering my.
Question all, right appreciate that.

Speaker 2 (02:24:56):
Call.

Speaker 11 (02:24:56):
Eric let's Blog tuck still giving us some more. Time
what's good to? Squeak have some more phone? CALLS uh
one one. ONE i believe this is an international or skype.
Call thanks for. Holding let us know your question or.

Speaker 31 (02:25:06):
COMMENT i am an international, man but Unfortunately i'm In North.

Speaker 1 (02:25:11):
Carolina this is CALLER. X how you doing CALOR?

Speaker 11 (02:25:14):
X glad to have you on the, Show but what
do you?

Speaker 12 (02:25:15):
Have?

Speaker 1 (02:25:15):
First then.

Speaker 11 (02:25:18):
Love the, Show love.

Speaker 31 (02:25:19):
The, show keep the torch, burning good. Stuff my only
comment would BE i wish you'd cover it more independent
and less like w W SS. TNA i realized that
the callers pretty much dictate you know what they're calling them.
Out but, whatever even whoever's, listening you, know give the
independence and. Love but, anyway reaction TO tna last, night

(02:25:41):
they had a great ratings on THE tv ratings last. Week,
great we'll see what they can. Do as far as
running with the, storyline my question to you, is AND
i keep hearing, this do you see any kind of
integration between this UPCOMING wwp AND. Tna have you heard?
ANYTHINGS i hear people saying it's gonna happening to. Happen
BUT i just from the coordination, STANDPOINT i just can't

(02:26:03):
see these two organizations working. Together what's your thoughts on.

Speaker 11 (02:26:06):
That you're saying w w AND tna working. Together, no
w W p this?

Speaker 1 (02:26:11):
Upcoming oh Oh.

Speaker 31 (02:26:15):
Will pond's backing.

Speaker 11 (02:26:16):
There, yeah you, KNOW i haven't heard much about W
wp in the last couple of. MONTHS i don't know
if it's, because you, know The saint Lawreent Kuai independent
working On. FLORIDA i don't know if it's because he
left and he was kind of the one who was
hyping it up and uh he was. Backstage he DID tna,
shows trying to recruit. Talents he was hanging around With
Scott hall And Kevin ash And Sean waltman there on

(02:26:38):
The Last call YouTube. Videos you, know sort. Of w
w W p has been in my mind just Because i'm,
wondering you, know what they're up to and if they're
ever going to. Materialize, greg have you heard anything about
this group and all of its. PROSPECTS i know you
had a pretty lengthy call up on in the newsletter

(02:26:59):
a couple weeks ago OR i guess months. Ago, now
have you heard anything new recently about?

Speaker 2 (02:27:04):
THAT i, haven't and that's never a good. SIGN i
just think, that you, KNOW i think contracts are supposed
to be executed around this time Or november or, maybe
AND i think that all got pushed back AFTER i
think it was Mister Saint laurent did end up. LEAVING
i think he was the one that ended up left
leaving the. Promotion so the sad that in this, case

(02:27:27):
no news is not good. News you, know you would
expect to hear something about some kind OF tv deal
or some kind of, promotion promotional backing from, them or
or sponsorship by a company from. Them the fact that
it's been pretty silent is. Deafening this is the First
i've heard of t AND a working with. THEM i

(02:27:49):
DON'T i don't know really where the interests would be
coming FROM tna to work with. Them the only thing
is if if they thought THAT wwt was going to
be a serious, threat and why headed off the pass
by you, know working with. Them but you, know the
fact that we haven't heard any news either MEANS i
guess that they're building up for a big announcement WITH.
Tna but if they, were we would certainly be hearing

(02:28:10):
about it On Dixie's twitter that there's gonna be announcement
that will change the world and that that would that
would be these two groups working. Together and since we
haven't heard that hinted, AT i think my my feelings
are that that's not going to happen at least in
the immediate.

Speaker 11 (02:28:26):
Future, Agreed, Yeah, no news is not good in this. Case,
YEAH i agreed on that did't have a. WEBSITE i
don't think they even have a website. YET i don't think. So.

Speaker 2 (02:28:37):
Uh and this is SOMETHING i, mean if you're a
new promotion like, that you want to be out, there you,
know AND i remember this is something that THE xfl
did when they were when they were building. Up but
you want to get news out there every every few
weeks and every few, months whether it's you, know a
wrestler signing or you, know you're signing some sort of
a deal with another promotion to partner with, them or

(02:28:57):
some kind of. Sponsorship you. Know on THE xsi it,
was you, know they were announcing the, cities and they're
announcing the head, coaches and then they're announcing the the team,
names and this was every few weeks you, know for
that here leading up to the first. Game they wanted
to keep the name and that brand in the minds
of the sports, fans but they, didn't you, know lose
track of. It AND i think that for a refering,

(02:29:17):
promotion it's the same way you want to be putting
out press. Releases you want to be talking up your,
promotion especially if this is supposed to get off the
ground in three or four.

Speaker 11 (02:29:25):
Months.

Speaker 2 (02:29:26):
Uh and the fact that they're not doing that tells
me that they've hit some kind of a. Snag, yeah it's.

Speaker 11 (02:29:33):
Probably, money you, KNOW i think that's That's, yeah, shockingly
that's probably the key issue is the dollar. Signs but you,
know we'll. SEE i you, know haven't had much confidence
in this promotion from WHEN i first heard about it
several months, ago and that's why we just haven't covered
it BECAUSE i don't know if they're worth the ink

(02:29:53):
until they actually put some intangible together and we have
not seen that. Yet so you, know we'll see h joint,
one whether this is A jay out Of, Houston, jay
how are you? Doing, Say i'm doing great and youth doing?

Speaker 16 (02:30:06):
Good what do you have?

Speaker 11 (02:30:07):
First?

Speaker 9 (02:30:07):
Say, okay gonna be addressing that harty. Situation long story,
Short matt screw. Man he had the biggest push in his,
life god eight years, ago and he blew it because
he followed his woman To. Raw ever since then down
here he came back with The edge singing five delivered

(02:30:29):
a terrible. PROMO i, mean he Blasted leader And edge
for so long and then in one Promo edge.

Speaker 11 (02:30:37):
Knocked him out the.

Speaker 9 (02:30:38):
Park Matt hardy just didn't have. It not everybody's meant
to be a world. Champion he should have just, said,
Look i'm getting good, money or he could have went
TO tna and oh, Five he always had that. Option
he didn't take that. Up now he's gonna come. In
he's gonna Be Dixie carter's next big, surprise major, acquisition
and THE teena Fans i'm marking down they're going to

(02:30:59):
turn on him because he's carried himself as such a
clip for the last five.

Speaker 29 (02:31:04):
Years what's your take on?

Speaker 11 (02:31:05):
It, Yeah, kurt what's your take on on you know
What jay brought up as well as how do you
THINK tna fans would Receive. MATT i MEAN i kind
of picture that that initial pop for oh my, goodness
we have another w wrestler coming in The impact zone
and depending on how he's, present how he presents. Himself
it could turn into words sort of grading the audiences

(02:31:28):
and you know doesn't accept.

Speaker 35 (02:31:29):
Him longing for some nostalgia or maybe you want to
learn some wrestling, history don't miss the Nineties pass cast
Every friday on THE Pw Torch Daly Cast. Feed alex
And patrick will transport you thirty years into the past
by taking you through The torch issue from that very.

(02:31:52):
Week follow news from THE wwf AND wcw and all
the happenings from across the wrestling industry in real time
as The Torch report thirty years. Ago that's the Nineties
pass cast Every friday for THE Pw Towards Daily cast.

Speaker 11 (02:32:05):
Feed but what what's your take on On hardy and
what they had to?

Speaker 2 (02:32:18):
SAY i do to tell you one thing is that
that the mic skills may have been the thing that
was holding him back from Becoming World champion because you,
know their return promo was not good and you, know
W w may have lost faith to him at that.
Point THE tna, fans they're very easy to play and
like you, said he's A wwe guy and in The

(02:32:40):
Impact zone and THROUGHOUT tna history ON tv W w
has been portrayed as a superior brand OF, tna even
by that, Company so of course they're going to cheer
a W w guy coming. Over that makes them feel
major league and makes them feel. Relevant SO i don't
really see them turning on, him you, KNOW i JUST

(02:33:01):
i just get TO i just go back to When
Jim ninheart Bought Jay lethal and the crowd was chancing
he still got. It, well you, know he's one hundred pounds,
overweight AND i, mean like it's gonna take a lot
to boost somebody who's supposed to be a. Babyface Uh,
SO i Think Matt hardy probably will not have much
trouble getting over at The Impact zone. Crowd you, know
they're smart, fans and a lot of the smart fans

(02:33:22):
it's tired Of matt's. Antics but it's a whole different
thing when you're in a group and when you're in
when you're there live and uh, YEAH i just DON'T
i just don't see them really turning on, Him, james
like you, said at least at, First.

Speaker 11 (02:33:37):
Yeah it kind, of you, know it depends on how
they present him and whether he kind of how he comes,
across if he takes himself too seriously after that initial
pop and then and then the crowds, Like i'm not
so excited, anymore you. Know, so, uh it depends on
who was shooting against it in how he's.

Speaker 2 (02:33:56):
POSITIONED i, mean, really this was a crowd that was,
cheering you, know not, strongly but they were cheering Rod
terry as a baby. Thing SO i, mean, man you're
gonna have to screw Up royal eight or bet books
terribly to draw the iro of THE tna, fans.

Speaker 11 (02:34:11):
The latter of which is a distinct. Possibility, yeah so,
YEAH i don't. Know, yeah that's something that we'll keep
an eye out in about three, months is assuming that
he does go TO, tna which is a fairly safe.
Assumption let's. Go we've got two more phone calls we'll
get to here in The The Bonus Blog talk radio after.

(02:34:33):
Show let's go to the first of two callers from
the seven seven three area. Code seven seven. Three welcome
to the. Show please say you sham where you're? From
seven seven.

Speaker 1 (02:34:44):
Three you're on the.

Speaker 11 (02:34:45):
Air all, right nothing. There let's try the other seven
seven three, callers seven seven, three you're on the. Air
no luck with seven seven, Three so we. Tried greg
will go ahead and in the blog talk radio portion
of the, show and then you AND i will stick

(02:35:06):
around for THE vip after. Show we don't thank everyone
for listening to today's live cast and you're for the live,
cast be sure to find us on iTunes and find
us in the top sports. Section we're currently in the
top one, HUNDRED i believe in terms of the live
cast in the live cast episode on a daily, Basis
so check us out on. iTunes if you're listening to

(02:35:28):
us on the blog talk radio portion and now via,
members stick around for THE vip after. Show thank you
for using blog talk.

Speaker 16 (02:35:37):
Radio, goodbye.

Speaker 11 (02:35:40):
All, Right, Greg we're now in THE vip after show
portion of the. Show covered a lot of items in the, NEWS,
Wwe Matt, hardy a little bit Of SmackDown, tonight as
well as of course to a last Night, Gregor i'll
get your thoughts on On SmackDown, tonight and you've got
the quote unquote return of The undertaker after a lengthy

(02:36:03):
one week, hiatus as well as The bragganwrights qualifying. Matches
what kind of jumps out of you about tonight's show
that you're gonna be looking out for when you cover
it on pptorch dot.

Speaker 2 (02:36:14):
COM i don't know anyone who's made more returns than The.
UNDERTAKER i gotta say it's amazing how he can keep that.
Up but, Yeah i'm looking, for you, know the continued
build Of Undertaker, caine and we've also got the big
show As Mattdown captain And Bragging, Rights and aside From Undertaker,
caine that's gonna be the biggest match From Bragging rights

(02:36:36):
coming out what two weeks lay now almost there's still
two and a half something like, That so you, know
that's definitely Something i'm gonna look out. For and you,
know the the hot main event from last week Was
Raymond SiO Versus alberto Del rio and we'll see if
that feud has any life lessons because ray won pretty,

(02:36:57):
handily not pretty, handily but cleanly over Or. Delrio so
we'll see how he reacts to his first.

Speaker 11 (02:37:03):
Loss, yeah good point, there and that's something that they
could really build a lot of the show. Around AND i,
think you, know obviously it's gonna be more About Bragging,
rights but and hopefully we'll get some commentary on that
while Del rio wrestles on tonight's. Show But, yeah that's
a big. Story it's gonna fall up on.

Speaker 6 (02:37:22):
That and.

Speaker 11 (02:37:24):
That's one of the things That royko was kind of disappointed, About,
like like you mentioned in the lid, Cast greg was
Kerr angle's storyline in his retirement stipulation and the lack
of fall up on that on a smaller scale in
terms of the person the, character the lack of a
lengthy history behind the character ON. Tv but Del rio

(02:37:45):
is almost in the same situation where he had his
first loss ON. Tv how does he, react what's the follow?
Up what's the story behind? That and you can do
a lot of different stuff with, That so good point
to bring up. OUT i hope they do emphasize that
on tonight's, show because that's a if you're trying to
make Del rio a big, deal WHICH i think they,
are you've got to have some pretty solid follow up

(02:38:06):
on his first. Loss and, so you, know we'll, see
we'll see what they do with. That bragging Rights, CREGG
i mean kind of you your early impression of how
that pay per view is shaping, up you kind of
your top matches, being you, Know Randy orton Versus Wade,
barrett Was John seed Involved Team, Robbers Team SmackDown uh

(02:38:28):
women's title match that has a little bit of hype behind,
it of.

Speaker 13 (02:38:31):
COURSE.

Speaker 11 (02:38:31):
Uh The Cane taker match has been advertised, LOCALLY uh In.
Minneapolis what do you make of the card and what
do you make of the? Uh the potential for this
to be a you, know a decent pay per view
is something that that might be worth considering a. BUYE.
Uh what's your take on the overall pay per view
as it stands right?

Speaker 2 (02:38:52):
Now card looks. WEAK i don't think it's gonna do. Well.
Uh you're coming off two paper views almost in a,
row and you've got another one here and then you've
got a big one In survivor. Series you've got a
pay per view and bragging rights that one of the
main matches IS Smc gun Versus raw, match, which while
you don't usually get to see those guys interact with each,

(02:39:14):
other there is no. Stakes there are no stakes in
this match because The cops that is mentioned twice a,
year once the week before and once the week after
the pay per. View there's no rivalry that makes fans
want to tune, in and it would be so easy
to just develop it throughout the year to make this
pay per view seem more. Important but with the influx

(02:39:36):
of pay per views and the number of pay per
views that they have to, run they're focusing solely on
the pay per views, ahead and they don't have time
to sit back and breathe and, say you know a,
lot let's you, know let's take today and write a
couple or write one segment every three weeks that mentions
the rivalry between these two brands and builds it up
so that way At Bragging, rights we're not sitting there

(02:39:58):
trying to build a rivalry out of and trying to
do smoking mirrors here to make fans think that there's
something at stake or some rivalry, here because it's just not.
Working Randy orton Versus Wade beard is A ww championship.
MATCH i don't think it's a strong is a strong.
CELL i don't know If Wayde beard is at that point.
YET i, mean he's played his character, perfectly he's done

(02:40:20):
a while on the. RING i think he's exceeded a
lot of expectations for a guy coming out of the
first season OF. NXT i just don't think he resonates
with fans enough that they have to buy a pay
per view where he's fighting for THE wwe title right.
Now if you Do kane Versus taker, again you know,
again that's a few that's been kind of run into the.
Ground and while it's been re energized a bit in

(02:40:42):
the last few months with the match last month at
the pay per, view our fan's gonna be willing to
show up money for another match between the, two given
how you, know up and down that match was last
month and then The Devas. CHAMPIONSHIP i, MEAN i don't
really THINK i need to add anything to.

Speaker 11 (02:40:58):
That, YEAH i agree with those. Points and the thing
to me about the title match build up is there's
so much emphasis on on the storyline on THE tv,
aspect which, is you, Know john skin is in jeopardy every,
week What's Wade barrett going to do to? Him to insult,
him patronize, him write him, down make him do things

(02:41:19):
he doesn't want to. Do every, week there is an emphasis,
on you, know going after the title and going AFTER i,
mean they didn't even Have Wade barrett And Randy. ORTON
i don't. THINK i don't even think they were ON
tv together On monday's. Show at the same. TIME i
could be wrong on, that BUT i don't believe they, Were,
uh there isn't that sense Of Wade barrett is trying

(02:41:42):
to CONTROL wwe by going for the title if they
emphasize they go To monday's show and they, say, uh you,
Know Wade barrett's on a quest for the for the
ultimate power in W b and that power is held
By Randy, orton And Randy ortons sort of are the
last man standing Between Wade barrett and ultimate control of the.
Title oh my, goodness you had to order the pay per?

(02:42:03):
View is next is finally gonna take over by virtue
of a match and a in a quest for power
by the Heel and they really haven't done, that really
haven't emphasized, that and that's sort of my, my my
big problem with with the way that wrestling is presented
ON tv now is that the titles just sort of
seemed to get in the way of the. Storylines and

(02:42:24):
that's why people aren't spending money to watch wrestling on
pay per, VIEW i believe because the value of the
title and the quest and the championship from both promotions
it's just non. Existent, uh it's just it's unfortunate when
that doesn't have to be the. Case So i'm interested
to see how they Hype monday this title, match whether

(02:42:45):
they remain focused on sort of The, johns you know
Way barrett, story or if they do kind of swing
it back around To barrett And orton and, UH i don't.
Know we'll see about.

Speaker 6 (02:42:55):
That so.

Speaker 11 (02:42:57):
Great getting the final thoughts before we wrap up and
grab some dinner before.

Speaker 2 (02:43:02):
SmackDown, yeah that's exactly What i'll be. Doing came home
from student teaching, today sat down For impact and Watched
impact for you, know an hour and a half, whatever
a little over an hour of the d V, r
and took a quick nap and then it was up
to do the live cast and now it'll be dinner and.
SmackDown so My friday is booked.

Speaker 20 (02:43:22):
Up there you.

Speaker 11 (02:43:24):
Go that's a that's a looking Good, friday the nap
part and uh the dinner. Part so, yeah that's.

Speaker 1 (02:43:30):
Expected i'll be.

Speaker 2 (02:43:31):
Good, yeah snipe down his hit or if it could
be a good, party it could be a bad. Part who.

Speaker 11 (02:43:35):
Knows, yeah all, Right, greg a great great discussion. Today
appreciate you joining me to in the live. Cast want
to think all The TORCH vip members for the support
of The TORCH vip audio section and The TORCH vip
section itself for Tort, Calmus Greig. Parks this Is torch
is just an. Editor James caldwell signing.

Speaker 1 (02:43:55):
Up invite you to email the show with feedback or
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(02:44:18):
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Speaker 36 (02:44:32):
Keller searching for more great pro wrestling, talk then join
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(02:44:52):
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Speaker 1 (02:45:04):
Com thanks for listening to our. Podcast did you. Know
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Speaker 17 (02:45:28):
Com need an extra dose of positivity in your wrestling,
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Progress paradise at Pterew TORCH vip as we mask on
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Speaker 25 (02:47:06):
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