15 YRS AGO LIVECASTS: Dave Lagana cohosts and talks Miz & Morrison origins, Triple H insight, ROH stars going to WWE & TNA, ROH changes

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 2 (01:05):
Now, PW Torch and Spreaker bring you the Wade Keller
Pro Wrestling Podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:15):
On today's Wadekeller Pro Wrestling Podcast. For jumping back fifteen
years to the September eighth and ninth episodes of the
PW Torch live cast. On the first one, I was
joined by James Caldwell and we talked about NXT season
three's premiere the night before, Chris Jericho's history in terms
of booking, as comments on needing to push the young
stars in WWE, Lynda mcmann's US Senate campaign, responsibility on

(01:38):
w's part for wrestler health, issues from the past, and more.
That livestream down September eighth, twenty ten, and in the
previously VIP exclusive after show, we talked about ww's lack
of wellness policy, transparency, media coverage in Connecticut, and more.
And then on the September nine, twenty ten episode, James
Caldwell was joined by special guest co host Dave legana
former w creative team member and at the time inn

(01:59):
ROH producer and writer, and he talked about Ring of
Honor's Saturday pay per view, the direction of the company,
ROH stars leaving for WWE and TNA, the origins of
mis and Morrison with Logana's insight on how that came about,
unique insight on Triple H and its strengths as a
WW executive t and A storylines, the TV Champions and
TNA versus rh NXT season three, thoughts y W was

(02:20):
giving away scene versus or Non Raw, the watering down
of pay perviews and more. And then in the previously
VP exclusive after show, Dave stuck around with James to
talk about Daniel Bryan against Cabal and WWE RHS booking
changes from Adam Pierce to delirious working with Jim Cornette
in ROH and more. So a loaded must listen, I say,

(02:41):
episode here of the Wade Keller Progressing Podcast fifteen years ago.
Flashback for Friday, September twelfth, twenty twenty five.

Speaker 3 (02:51):
Welcome to PW tors live cast. Hi am PW torch
dot Com editor Wake Keller, joined today by torchs assistant
editor James Caldwell.

Speaker 2 (02:59):
Were lated It's totally my fault. James, are you there?
I am here that it's all set up for for you.
Ready to go? Excellent? Excellent?

Speaker 3 (03:07):
I got caught up in traffic and uh self problem,
cell phone problems, all kinds of fun stuff, but we
are we are on board here, We're.

Speaker 2 (03:18):
To call here on the live cast. James, what's that number?
The number to call, of course is six four six
seven eight.

Speaker 3 (03:27):
I'm just a punny to myself. I thought I would
have had that memorized by now.

Speaker 4 (03:31):
Professor.

Speaker 3 (03:33):
Yeah, I was like, gready to rows, and I'm like, wait,
I don't actually know it. I know the call in number,
but that's the print of that. But part of that
is callers just always fill up.

Speaker 2 (03:42):
The phone lines for us. Well.

Speaker 3 (03:43):
Games a couple of interesting things in the news today. Obviously,
I want to talk about the lit big Man campaign briefly.
We haven't spend a lot of time on that in
recent weeks, but the Yale professor today, you've had stories
up on that and had a mention of that and
our great new uh uh news brief be Sure, which
I love. It was my idea You've been doing a
great job with it. So anyway, I'm complimenting myself in

(04:05):
you there. But the Yale professor spoke out and called
the anything Let's immoral and also was critical of the
uh of Landscape's death and the whole way that WW
set up with that death clause.

Speaker 2 (04:21):
In the contract.

Speaker 3 (04:22):
I just think this is one of the things that
I thought, going back to the beginning of Lenny McMahon
running for Senate, that I just I thought there were
so many things about the way WWE does business that
flew under the radar for so long that running for
Senate and getting now where she's a legit contender. She's,
you know, an underdog, but she's a legit contenter to

(04:43):
become one of one hundred lawmakers in this country, a
lot of stuff is the spot life's going to be
shine brighter, and is I think as the pull as
the gap in the pulling changes and she gets closer.
If that happens, I think the scrutiny level on her
is going to increase quite a bit. And and I agree.
I mean, I just think the whole independent contractor clause,
whatever business justification they have for that is always based

(05:06):
on serving not the wrestlers, the wrestlers, not the family
that they've spoken about for years, but serving stockholders. And
I get that when you're immersed in the wall streaming rivers,
that serving stockholders seems like just well, that's of course
what you do, that's what that's where everything is aimed.
That's where everything is aimed towards pleasing stockholders, making sure

(05:27):
that the next quarterly statements are full of good news.
And I think they lose sight of the fact that
there are wrestlers out there who are risking their bodies
and taking time away from their family. And it's not
always about how grotesquely profitable you can be as a company.
Sometimes it's about doing right by your employees, and if
you can't, then maybe your business shouldn't succeed. It's not

(05:48):
like WWE has some really tough competitor right now that
has set the bar really low for how to treat employees.
They are I'm sorry, contractors. They are in a position
where they can actually do right by their their their wrestlers,
and they haven't. And they're excuses they used in the
past regarding w W don't exist anymore.

Speaker 2 (06:06):
So I don't know what jump.

Speaker 5 (06:07):
Down to you with.

Speaker 3 (06:08):
With the Yale professor comments that maybe UH adds fuel to.

Speaker 2 (06:12):
To this controversy, I just think that the sheer fact
that it's reached a Yale law professor, you know, it's
kind of what I put in my analysis almost tongue
in chic, that this this issue has has come full circle,
or not full circle, but it's come to the forefront
to where a a Ivy League law professor is addressing

(06:35):
what what seems like such a ridiculous classification that w
has been able to get away with for so long.
I mean, I've written about this for probably five years.
I mean, whe one of my first columns when I
came on on the tours was about this was the
independent class independent contractor classification. How it's all slanted in
w B's favor. I mean, there there's no there's basically

(06:57):
no rights for the wrestler. I mean its because you're
you should be thankful that we even are giving you
a job, you know. So it's just amazing to me
that this has reached a Yale law professor, which I
think is it's a sign of good progress for this issue.
And it hurtyone. What's that?

Speaker 3 (07:16):
Oh, her opponent too, isn't bringing it up. That's the
other aspect of the sounding that's interesting is can you
notice that it's like Plumenthal has not made a real
big issue as it. Do you think they're waiting to
you know, they you know, it's post labor dight now,
so you know, kind of shift into campaign mode a
lot more people who weren't paying attention to start paying attention.
Do you think that Richard Blumenthal is going to move
in that direction? Now or do you think there's some

(07:37):
strategic reason from what you've read and thought about that
maybe he's decided.

Speaker 2 (07:42):
Not to go that direction.

Speaker 3 (07:44):
For me, it just seems like people qualifies a little
bit mean to run for said it because what she's
done as as a leader, being double the junior's various
titles over the years. I think he should be really
leading the way by saying needs to answer for the
good and she's gonna she think she's qualified to run
a run for Senate based on her experience. We need

(08:06):
to look at what she's done and the decisions that
she's made. And I just think a Democrat running history
Republican all they have to go on is look at
read it for workers and did chip but profit ahead
of well being? I would think that's an obvious thing
to do if you're the bluemin doll campaign. And it
kind of blows my mind that that hasn't unless he's
just waiting to strike at the right moment, that that

(08:28):
hasn't been more of an issue than you can.

Speaker 2 (08:30):
Yeah, I don't know, you know, it's so oddo. This
is one of the articles I covered today is you know,
the media and connecticuts just kind of sitting there going
is he gonna ever say anything? Is he ever going
to step up and address anything? Does he does he
have a a uh, you know, an ace in the
hole that he's going to play on, you know, in
the uh in the final build up the election. I

(08:53):
don't know, or the other My other thought is that
perhaps he just does not want to sort of go
this rowdy. The one is maybe perhaps Soil himself talking
about WW and you know, those wrestlers and then that
fake stuff and all that sort of jargon that we've
heard throughout this this campaign coverage. I don't know, if
he just has different political ambitions he doesn't want to

(09:14):
have anything to do with anything he played in WW
because he maybe has stuffing down the road, perhaps I
don't know, maybe running for president and he doesn't want
to be involved and in any type of discussion that
has to do with WW. It's just because it has
such a poor reputation amongst you know, your your general public.

Speaker 3 (09:32):
Well, that would be a big victory, and that'd be
a big victory for Linda if somehow, yeah, bringing WWE
up it was was a bad thing. If you're running
against her, I mean, wow, you know that so I mean,
that's just just something to keep an eye and I
you know, obviously the political stuff is what it is.

Speaker 2 (09:49):
You know, she's gonna she's you.

Speaker 6 (09:51):
Know, not likely to be elected, but there's a chance
and story. But I think the thing that's most most
interesting to me and you and our listeners is, you know,
what is what kind of awareness does it bring to
w w E And do the wrestlers in any kind
of power or leadership position, do they actually step up
now and and talk amongst themselves and try to figure

(10:12):
out a strategy to get better working conditions.

Speaker 2 (10:15):
I mean, this does.

Speaker 3 (10:16):
Tie into Lance Kine and Ruinava Sean and and and
just the whole culture of pro wrestlings. And you know
a lot of people say this, well, it's it's the
individual choice, you know, don't blame us, don't blame us
for what for what happens to Uh, I didn't realize

(10:38):
I loved sorry about the last by by by cry
by wailing for my cat who was.

Speaker 2 (10:47):
Locked in a room. All right up back to the.

Speaker 3 (10:50):
I think I think a lot of people say that, oh,
it's an individual choice, but this is, this is what
it comes down to for me, and I've said this,
people keep this brief. You have a choice when you're
leader of an industry. When you're the leader of an industry, you.

Speaker 2 (11:04):
Have the power to change your industry for the better.

Speaker 3 (11:07):
That should be the badge of honor that you wear
proudly every day when you wake up. More than what CNC,
more than more than what CNBC says about your profitability.
It should be what do people say about you five, ten,
fifteen years from now regarding how you treat your employees.

Speaker 2 (11:28):
You there, Dade, Yeah, yeah, I mean I'm not sure
who was doing that. Yeah, I don't think that was me.
That's a I'm just gonna echo your point. And I
see audise quotes from John Cena where he just, you know,
he'll talk about something like I read a quote today
about how, you know, entertainment actors or movie actors couldn't
couldn't hang in w where we you know, we do

(11:50):
two and there fifty days a year and they'd they'd
be worn out and they just can't hang. And to
me that I'm not going to be proud of. I
mean maybe in the past it was, you know, it
was the way that saying, you know, Russell are tough,
even if we're a quote unquote fake sport. But that's
not something to be proud of. And that's kind of
mentality that's so just troublesome. And Sina kind of talks
about this and almost every interview where it comes up,

(12:12):
and it's so concerning because he is a top guy.
He's a whole coagain, you know, of this generation of this,
this era of this locker room in WW.

Speaker 3 (12:22):
It's incredibly disappoint You're right, John seena Is is not
somebody who you who. From what we've heard so far
from John Cena there is no doubt he's not somebody
who's going to lead for change for the better in
this wrestling industry at this point for the wrestlers. He
might change it for the better for vincham Mann, but
he comes across very much as I'm getting my seven figures,
well into the seven figures and I and there's like

(12:44):
a sense of entitlement that you know, I deserve everything
that I've gotten here, so so everybody else they got
to work as hard as I did to get this opportunity,
not realizing that it takes somebody in his big good
fortune that he's had to step it up to ever
have an opportunity to make change for the patterns for

(13:04):
the industry on a whole. And I just hope sometimes
at some point, somebody in the position that John Cena
is in, that Keith Boston was in, that Rock was,
and that Hulk Cogan was in in Seaan Michaels and
and and her, I want one of them to step
up and self sacrifice.

Speaker 2 (13:19):
Of the whole industry.

Speaker 3 (13:22):
So anyway, next object, what were your thoughts on the
season three career X T L I Chess.

Speaker 7 (13:33):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (13:34):
I don't know if it's because I haven't I just
haven't processed what I watched and and if I need
to see more, just you know, to me, they have
a star in the making, and they owe me. I mean, obviously,
she was the one on that show that they were
trying to get over. She won the competition. She looked
the most credible in the ring. We saw, you know,
very very brief glimpses of the ladies in the ring.

(13:56):
She seemed to be the most competent. She seems to
be the one who's gonna be able to rise above
of the craft test, as I kind of called it
my report of that show. Yeah, it's just, you know,
part of that show felt like they recognize it's a
lame duck time slot. They're gonna be off sci Fi
on Tuesday nights, and in a couple of weeks, it
seems like they're gonna shift that to w dot Com,

(14:17):
where you know they can kind of there's no more
rating evaluation and there's no ratings that come in, and
sci Fi is gonna say, why don't want to draw
on at one point, Oh why do we only have
one point two million viewers for the show. So they
won't have that pressure from Sci Fi. They won't have
to answer to sci Fi. I'll have to answer for
to sci Fi for SmackDown. That's one other story. But
this show sound like a lame duck hour and just

(14:39):
a way to do this sort of variety show that
you know they get. If they get one star out
of this, then it'll be a success. And they have
the one star and it's Naomi. I think she'll be
a good addition to the women's division. But you know,
sit through twelve weeks of it and that I don't
know how anyone can sit through twelve weeks of of

(15:00):
the show. It's just it feels like it ran out
of all their ideas week one. It doesn't silly they
have anything else really going on beyond this, beyond this
initial concept which is that, Okay, we'll kind of introduce them,
we'll do something silly, We'll present a sort of mock
competition that what really mean that much, and we'll try

(15:21):
to maybe have a couple of wrestling matches that you know,
may or may not showcase one or two wrestlers. Then
also have gold Dust and Courlita, I'm Coledo and Premo
do their thing. And that's kind of what it feels like,
is just a show that that they just they just
don't have a grand idea. It feels like a show

(15:42):
that they're just kind of put together and they don't
really have an idea for how they want to use
that time slot in terms of building uh future stars
beyond Naomi, and it just it just feels like that's
the show designed to get her over, and no one
else really stands a benefit from being on that show.

Speaker 1 (16:00):
We're about to go to a commercial break. Why listened
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(16:21):
the ads and plugs through Patreon. Full VIP membership starts
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to a streamlined, AD and plug free listening experience with
a VIP or Patreon membership. I'm I like the idea
of having an all women's show at some point, but
I don't know that having it with a bunch of

(16:41):
unknown women with the NXT format is the right way
to go. I think the opportunity to do an all
women's show would have been had TNA. Had TNA been
building up the women's division and really hoarding talent, you know,
get keeping odb an Awesome Calm and Gail Kim and
then building up with a people and bringing in more

(17:01):
talent and Hamada and just really having that be their identity.
And then I think instead of Reaction, they could have
done an hour after Impact that was all knockouts, but
you could have I've always said this too when I've
brought up ideas of how to do an all women's show.
You can have the top male stars on the show
as part of the faction. They can be player coaches,

(17:21):
they can be in in factions with the women. They
can manage them or mentor them or whatever the situation is.
You can still do that sort of like ANXT does
with the pros and the rookies, but I don't know
that building. I'm real curious to see how it does
with all women. I mean, it's possible the ratings glow up,
and maybe that'll encourage WWE to really get behind the
women's division, because they just, for whatever reason throw them

(17:42):
out there for that one or two minute match on
Raw and it's a token match, but they don't really
ever get fully behind a women's brand. And I'm just
I'm fascinated to see how it would do if they
really had enough depth to do a full hour every
week of women's wrestling. And I know that they worry
about whether there's an good women wrestlers out there to
fill that time, but I'd still I'd still like to

(18:04):
see that happen in some former fashion. I still think
TNA was and probably still is the ideal place to
do it. But anyway, James, who got a bunch of
people on hold who want to join us on the
stage show, So why don't we start in on the
phone calls?

Speaker 2 (18:15):
Yeah, let's do it all right, go to Erico.

Speaker 1 (18:18):
Two eight one.

Speaker 2 (18:19):
You are first up.

Speaker 1 (18:20):
Please state your name and where you're from.

Speaker 8 (18:23):
Good afternoon, guys, is Chatty Houston.

Speaker 9 (18:25):
How you are doing to day?

Speaker 1 (18:26):
Doing good?

Speaker 2 (18:27):
Doing good?

Speaker 1 (18:28):
I wish I was not stuck in traffic like I was,
so we could have gotten off started on time. But
other than that, things are now good.

Speaker 5 (18:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 10 (18:35):
I was like a cuck right, what a little Laten's call?

Speaker 1 (18:39):
Hey, we did a show on the Labor day, so
we get a little flack for three minutes late, and
I know you're not giving us hard time to go ahead, Okay.

Speaker 10 (18:49):
I have a question about last year. This was when
Randy Orden had the Legacy Stable.

Speaker 11 (18:56):
And there was a handicap match on Raw and Trip.

Speaker 10 (19:00):
Lash was facing Cody Rhodes and Teddy Biassi and they
beat him. They both they finished it on them and
he completely no sold it and totally buried the guys.
And I was wondering did he get any punishment to that?
I mean, I mean I know that there was backstage
he you know, probably from the boys if I didn't

(19:21):
say anything, but I was wondering, how did how how
do you did you'll hear anything about how vince him
of that? And and if somebody did that to him,
you know, you know, how would he react to and
what would be the consequences?

Speaker 1 (19:35):
Are you asking if Triple H got punished for burying
Cody and Ted? Yes, short answer, No, I mean Triple
H's family, Triple H did what probably Vince Man wanted
him to do. The culture in w W E is
you you pay your dues and and and earn your keep.
And there were you know, Cody and Tebor rookies, and
Triple H's is a super make a superstar veteran. And

(19:57):
I think exactly what happened is exactly what management had happened.
Doesn't mean I think it was the right thing to do,
But no, no, there's I can't imagine Triple AHS being
scolded for being too hard on Cody and Ted at
that point in their careers last year. So that's why James,
you agree with that might take on that.

Speaker 2 (20:15):
Yeah, my thought was that they weren't on Hunter's level
at that point in terms of you know, character presentation
and longevity and tenure, in terms of the TV context
of the show. That they just they just weren't on
Hunters levels. So he gave him that, he gave him
that notch up, but then he just kind of bring
him right back down, you know, Hunters out at his
level just yet.

Speaker 1 (20:34):
Yeah, Hunters should have Hunter's attituded you should just be
you should be kissing my feet that I'm allowing you
to be in the ring with me, Like I think
that's I mean, in Hunter's mind, I think Ted and
Cody should have been apologizing to him for not being
for not being superstar enough and respecting his stature and
the dues that he paid even though they're you know,
their second third generation wrestlers. So no, no, Jay, I don't.

(20:56):
My short answer is no, nobody Tripleation didn't get punished
for that.

Speaker 9 (21:01):
My thing that just really chased my eyes. It wasn't
like this where he gets where he gets back up.
I mean, he kind of got on the mic and
he's buried them.

Speaker 7 (21:11):
He's like, oh oh that.

Speaker 3 (21:15):
Was how is like, oh yeah, well, remember Sina did
that to miss in his own way. I mean, that's
part of the culture. It's part of the Mainevan culture.
You know, that main of entors think that they're that
they're something so much they.

Speaker 1 (21:28):
Think there's something so much more special as human beings
at the core there there's they're like a higher level
of human being than the people who don't aren't born
with their who don't have the gift of timing, the
gift of talk, the great bodies, marrying the right person
at the right time, whatever it is, they don't. They
they think that they're simply at this such a higher

(21:50):
level that they get to treat people on their way
up in a way that that I think they in
retrospect think, well, I had it hard, so now I'm
gonna treat them. I'm going to treat them real hard
and and and give them a real hard time. And
and at some point, you know, it's like I say
about the whole the whole thing about leaders stepping up
when they have power. Why not break that pattern, you know,
why why not break that pattern at some point and

(22:11):
say let's let's make this a better company that isn't
like some you know, high school a bunch of immature
high schoolers. Uh, you know, beating up on beating up
on the underclassmen. Why can't we just make pro wrestling
more of a corporate corporate culture like Linda mcmannon is
running on and uh and and you know, not have
to answer to these things, but you know that is

(22:32):
it is the way it is. And there's people who
would disagree with me and say, Nope, Cody and Ted
needed to experience that as part of their career.

Speaker 2 (22:40):
Jay anything else.

Speaker 9 (22:42):
Yeah, I totally agree with you because I kind of
see it on smack now with mine a Taker and
well anybody he sees it.

Speaker 1 (22:48):
Hey, Undertaker did it's edgend Christian back in the early
two thousands, Jay Undertaker buried Egend Christian in two on
one matches. I mean, this isn't this isn't just triple
ation Sena. I mean, I don't mean to just isolate them.
They're they're part of the ongoing problem with Undertaker. I
thought it set edgend Christian back years the way that
he that he was booked to treat them. And again,
it's it's it's it's a mix of things of a
wrestler of Undertaker stature can say no, No, I'm not

(23:12):
gonna do that. Uh, that's that's not good for the company.
That's not good for the future. Triple Ah could say it,
Scenea could say it. So it's not like they're necessarily
initiating it. But even if they're not initiating it, I
think they should have the power to say to say no,
and they don't, so they do share a blame, whether
they initiated the idea or not. Go ahead, sorry, oh yeah.

Speaker 10 (23:28):
Yeah, under take it.

Speaker 9 (23:29):
He'd gives to Diamond, Dalla's Pace gets the seam, Punk
gets the turn.

Speaker 10 (23:32):
Hang over in two thousands, and how come none of
them are looking.

Speaker 9 (23:37):
To say, Jericho's in here, what ten eleven years and
instead of doing instead of doing that, he's said, hey,
what is the bon It makes them look good like
and stuff.

Speaker 2 (23:46):
You know.

Speaker 1 (23:47):
Yeah, I think it's also a little convenience that at
a time when Jericho has lost power and is being
booked to lose as it is, whether he likes it
or not, that you have to I'm a little cynical
that this is Jericho's stepping up to manage him, going, hey,
let me volunteer to put young guys over. I'm not
sure which came first, the chicken or the egg. In
that instance, he might have been booked to start putting

(24:07):
people over because of the contract talks, and then in
order to kind of soothe his ego a little bit.

Speaker 2 (24:11):
In these media.

Speaker 1 (24:12):
Interviews, he's saying, Oh, I'm at a point where I
love putting over younger guys, and I think the timing
is a little convenience. So I'm a little more skeptical
than I think most when it comes to that. James,
what do you say, what do you think of that?
Because you've you've read every media interview Chris Jericho has
done and listen to them. Well, what's your take on
Do you think I'm wrong on that? I mean, because
and if you do, tell me, But it seems to

(24:33):
me that Jericho's gotten really you know, if he's got
an injury, it's a shoulder injury from throwing out a shoulder,
patting himself on the back for how great he is
in the in the last couple of months, and even
people who normally love Jericho and think all he does,
all he touches turns to gold are starting to get
a little nauseous at how high on himself he is
in the midst of you know, being jobbed out on
TV as due to the contract thing.

Speaker 2 (24:52):
Yeah, I mean he was kind of first in line
to kind of support that idea of hey, hey, we
need to start developing these young guys. But there was
also a time where he said that it didn't make
sense to and this kind of gets to to where
your point is a lot of evidence behind the weight
is that there was that time where he did an interview.
It was basically that time when they're gonna either pair

(25:12):
him up with big show or you know, someone with
Dolf Ziglert and add that United Unified tag s geat
help us said the other one, but the unified tag
title run on the unfined tag Tighter run and it
was pretty much, you know, do you put him with
the established star? Do you put him with the younger guy?
And he kind of said, you know what, it made

(25:32):
sense to put me with the established star. It wouldn't
make a lot of sense put me with the younger guy.
And then you know that programmer in his course a
big show and then a couple of months later, all
of a sudden he's doing the yeah, we need to
start putting over the younger guys, and we need to
start focused on the future and that sort of thing.
And perhaps that's where you're talking about way, is that
maybe he did lose a little bit of power with

(25:53):
especially with a contract negotiation on the horizon, no sign
that he really wanted to you know, kind of commit
long term. And also he did start to do some jobs,
you know, slowly but surely, he started to work with
some of the younger stars. It wasn't really featured in
the event programs. Uh. He was kind of feature on SmackDown,

(26:13):
the program with Edge that was you know, really the
you know, leading through some leading through ustl Mania that
was the fourth out of those Big four matches and
kind of being on SmackDown not exactly the best place
to be to be featured. So perhaps it was a
little bit of an ego, you know, an ego check issue,
and and he kind of changes tune to the front

(26:34):
and line of putting over the younger stars and saying that, yeah,
we need to now is the time, It is a
crisis point. We need to we need to start focused
on the dolls, zigglers and the the dream macintires of
the world. So it could be like you said, I
mean I hadn't really thought of it that way, but
when you put together the evidence like that, it does
make some it does make some sense.

Speaker 1 (26:54):
Yeah, any closing comments to day.

Speaker 12 (26:56):
Before we move on, Well, aspartic, JERKEO, I'm not fitting
over a young guys things. I think he can think
back to the two thousand and four when he really
put over a shelt vision.

Speaker 9 (27:08):
To me, he's always been more on the mid card,
even after his underseted title runes than a main event,
So I really think and just when I see I
see him always working with younger guys. Remember he gets
the first veteran to put over John Seen and I'm
not turning about two thousand and five Vengeance two thousand
and two.

Speaker 4 (27:25):
He could over seen that scene.

Speaker 9 (27:26):
He's gleaners grass Jericho good a moment.

Speaker 1 (27:30):
Yeah, and let's I mean, it's just it's it's important
to keep in mind. And you're you're right, I mean,
what you're saying is factually correct. But Jericho doesn't book himself.
Jericho speaks after the fact and is able to describe
what happened and put a spin on it or or
or frame it how he wants. But Jericho, Jericho was
not in a position then or now to tell Vince

(27:52):
McMahon whether he's going to put somebody over definitively or
kick out at the three counts, to try to soften
the fact that he lost that type of thing. He Again,
I'm just saying I'm a little skeptical because he's not
in a position of power like Seenist Repelation Undertaker. He
just isn't at that level when it comes to his
power with asnsic man, and so I think he's all

(28:12):
these examples you're giving are things he was told to
do when he did. Now is he walking around backstage
saying to Vincent man, Hey, I want to put someone
over today. I want to do a job today. I
want to I want to work with this guy to
a certain extent. He might have made it clear years
ago that he's willing to do that and he doesn't
have an ego when he's not worried about it, but
that we don't know that, you know, we're only hearing
it now that he's in the.

Speaker 2 (28:32):
Midst of doing a bunch of jobs and kind of
being phased down.

Speaker 1 (28:35):
That the positive spin on it is, Hey, look I'm
giving back, and that's great.

Speaker 2 (28:39):
I mean, it's great.

Speaker 1 (28:40):
That it's happening and it probably is helping people, although
I would say he's getting to the point where he's
done so many jobs that and they aren't talking about
them after the fact on TV that to me, it
looks it's to me, it's being framed more by WWE
as Jerich was on a losing streak, not these wrestlers
who are beating him are on hot streaks. And because
they're they're framing as Jericho is losing something, not these

(29:02):
other wrestlers are gaining something, And that to me is
a little bit more of a giveaway too. This isn't
him putting somebody over as much as it's WWE knocking
him down a few notches. Jay, thanks for we call though,
great great subject in great series of questions. Let's go
to our second call today, area code five oh nine.
Please state your name and where you're from.

Speaker 2 (29:20):
Hey, it's a Jerichy Camck, Washington and Jered to do
for me again, what's on your mind today?

Speaker 13 (29:26):
First off, I gotta say it's kind of odd to
hear both you and James on the same time.

Speaker 1 (29:30):
To us, it's Pat's had a scheduling conflict on Wednesdays
for a while, so we're gonna try to figure that out.
So we're rearranging the schedule a little bit. Jane, have
you announced tomorrow's guests yet?

Speaker 2 (29:43):
Oh, well, that was a great setup. Way we have
a surprise. I believe it's our first sort of within
the industry guests. We will have Ring him On writer
Dave Logana on tomorrow's show. I'll be hosting with Lagana
and we'll talk about the Ring of on or pay
per view on Saturday, as well as talking about news
and THEVD and a Ring of Honor news or whatever's

(30:05):
going on on Thursday. So be sure to call in
again on Thursday and we'll have plenty of time. They've
talked to Dave about what's going on with the Ring
of Honor and other subjects in the news.

Speaker 1 (30:16):
And I'll also say two the format of the show,
I mean not to sound corny, but it's it's about
analysis of the news and then it's about callers. And
I like the format. I think there's we've proven over
the course of the last eight plus months that the
format works and I don't really want to necessarily get
off into having somebody on as a guest where we
interview them. I like this to be about news of

(30:38):
the day and the callers. So when we have guest
co hosts, and we may do this more often, the
people who come on are co hosts of the show.
They're not the guests, so to speak. And the idea
still is to just have them be along for the
ride and take calls. Obviously, he's gonna talk about Ring
of Honor and James the Old interview him about that,
but it doesn't mean we're going to exclude calls and
we'll get his take on the news of the day
outside of Ring of Honor.

Speaker 2 (30:59):
Yep.

Speaker 14 (30:59):
Exactly need an extra dose of positivity in your wrestling podcasts.
Will come join me Alan frel Over in the Progress
Paradise at Pterbo Torch VIP as we mask on the
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(31:22):
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Speaker 1 (32:08):
Anyway, you had uh, you had a question for us here?

Speaker 13 (32:12):
Yeah, just a couple of comments, actually really uh, just
some observations. I've noticed there's a there's another b.

Speaker 4 (32:18):
Live show coming to my town.

Speaker 13 (32:20):
And I've been to a few, you know, non televised
events over the years, but this one I don't think
i've ever been to. It's a mix they're doing.

Speaker 2 (32:26):
They're not doing a just raw and or SmackDown.

Speaker 1 (32:30):
They're they're doing a.

Speaker 13 (32:30):
Mix of raw and SmackDown, and in the same night
in another city somewhere across the country, they're doing the
same thing. They split the roster up and it's in
the middle of October. So I'm wondering if that has
to do with maybe trying to sell their new SmackDown
show and sci fi or something like that.

Speaker 4 (32:44):
Do you guys say anything about that?

Speaker 1 (32:45):
Jane speak to that, because I think it has to
do with when SmackDown is live, and so do you
are you able to answer that?

Speaker 2 (32:52):
Yeah, Jared, do you know the day that they're coming?
I don't tell them.

Speaker 13 (32:57):
Yeah, it's it's on a sayday. And then they're coming
in on Saturday night for an until I show in
my town, and like, except the same Saturday night that's
over in Colorado somewhere. And I looked at the lineups
for both punctors and it's a split between SmackDown Raw
and both shows.

Speaker 1 (33:13):
Okay, that's interesting. Yeah, so they're not running a super show.
They're doing half raw, half SmackDown on one town same night,
half row, half SmackDown on the other town.

Speaker 2 (33:23):
That's that's in Yeah. I haven't really don't. I haven't
really jumped into October events and looked at that yet,
but it certainly does it. I think part of it
is they don't want to hint at some potential roster changes.
The other possibility you know that if they're gonna move
you know, let's say at Jericho or you know, assuming

(33:43):
he stays around or an edge over to Raw, and
then maybe they don't want to reveal that ahead of time,
or they might be running some more frequent live Raw
I mean, I'm sorry, live smack smackdowns on Friday night.
So that's uh.

Speaker 1 (33:57):
Know what's looking into Yeah, yeah, well, uh, James and
I I'll try to get more information on that, try
to try to figure out what is going on, because
that's a that is interesting. I mean it it could
be uh the w W back in the eighties when
they ran A shows, B shows, and C shows. They
would run the top stars in the A market and
then they would run a smaller market with a B

(34:19):
show and then an even smaller markets sometimes you know,
like high school gyms with the C shows, which was
you know, their attempt to be predatory and knock out
the indie groups and and and make a little extra
money on.

Speaker 2 (34:28):
The side too.

Speaker 1 (34:30):
So what it's possible, although they haven't done this since
the brand split, that they're gonna experiment with loading up
a show in a large market and then having a
B show with a mix of talent with a mix
of talent, but not the entire strength of Undertaker and
Randy Orton and John Cena all on the same you know,
all on this. They'll put them all on the A

(34:50):
show and then on the medium sized market run a
smaller group of wrestlers and hope.

Speaker 2 (34:54):
They can draw.

Speaker 1 (34:55):
That's the strategy did in the eighties. Maybe they would
try that now. But I have to look at the
look at the two towns in the schedule to'd be
able to give it more educated answer.

Speaker 2 (35:02):
Yeah, just kind of reviewing the schedule in the middle
of October that right now they have a SmackDown taping
on right before that house show and Jared. But I
think waves point is probably more accurate, which is that
it's kind of a you know, smaller markets. Perhaps they
haven't drawn as well in the past with past you know,
single brand house shows. They want to make it more

(35:22):
of a this is a you know, you get both brands,
you get top stars from both brands, and perhaps a
way to I guess maybe spurred ticket sales and perhaps
make it more attractive than your standard raw or smacked
on house shows. That then that might be the more
accurate answer. Just kind of looking into the schedule in
front of.

Speaker 1 (35:40):
Me, Jared anything else.

Speaker 13 (35:43):
Yeah, I was gonna say, I'm not really sure because
to be honest, our Toun could be considered a small market.

Speaker 2 (35:48):
It's definitely growing, but they've only had two.

Speaker 13 (35:50):
WWE shows ever in our town and they were of
course for the last three years, and both those were sellouts,
complete sellouts, because we've never had them here in our account,
So I I don't think it's from past failure here
on account they've been highly successful.

Speaker 1 (36:04):
Well, maybe maybe you've sold out too easily and they're
going to cut back on the talent that they give you.

Speaker 2 (36:08):
I think the opposite.

Speaker 1 (36:09):
Yeah, my god, that's kind will sell out even if
we give them crap. So let's let's let's not let
us load over the show.

Speaker 2 (36:16):
Yeah, I guess I just have one more thing before
I go. I was just observation. I know you guys
always talk about how these taper view prices are.

Speaker 4 (36:24):
Way too high and then that they needed you something.

Speaker 13 (36:26):
I just went and reserved the new Smackcown video game
coming out of the game Stop and they give you
a twenty dollars off eight w pay.

Speaker 2 (36:32):
Per view when you do that, I don't know if
that's some for emotion they're starting.

Speaker 5 (36:35):
To go for.

Speaker 2 (36:36):
Maybe I like that. I think that's good.

Speaker 1 (36:38):
I mean I think they I think coupons are a
good idea. Season passes, they are a good ideas. I
think if they had total control of it, I think
they do more of it. But with the middleman being
the cable companies, you know, it's it's I know Vince
Vincma has been frustrated with them over the years, and
TNA is frustrated with them at times too. So do
you have anything else?

Speaker 2 (36:57):
No, you guys do a good job.

Speaker 1 (36:58):
Thanks what great, appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (37:00):
Thanks so much. All right, back to the phone lines.

Speaker 1 (37:02):
Let's go to air go three four to seven. You're
on the live test comame and where you're.

Speaker 7 (37:05):
From, Pablo Lennon's Christian Brooklyn, New York.

Speaker 1 (37:10):
Uh, we got a little bit about a back of
noise for you. But go ahead and ask your question.

Speaker 7 (37:14):
Well, I have a question to me. I personally think
it's unfair that d V has felt accounts selected death
that basically like the Lunova SHA. She hasn't worked there
for ten years and done has sent it to rehab.
Now that they've sent Jim nine hearts to rehab. To me,
the only death I think V should ever be accountable
is own apart because coming into that, in coming into

(37:37):
that tape of view, he was a healthy, thirty four
year old man and because of V's negligence.

Speaker 8 (37:43):
He lost his life.

Speaker 7 (37:44):
But the other people who have died had their own
personal issues. There should be a degree of personal responsibility
with these people who you know have bad habits, and
I agree should pay for their rehab and everything, but
they shouldn't be blamed just because someone passed. Wait ten
years after they worked for them.

Speaker 1 (38:02):
Sure, Christmas, let me, let me let me just for
the sake of discussion, let me ask you this. If
somebody works in a coal If somebody works in a
coal mine and they and then the elevator falls on
them and crushes them, that's like what happened to owen Hart.
No disputing it. It wasn't an issue of personal responsibility
as long as that person was following safety standards and
there was negligence on the part of the company when

(38:23):
it came to elevator maintenance. That's open and shut. And
I don't think anybody disputes that there was that there
was a culpability issue with WWE. What they asked of
the of the company, what they asked of Owen, and
the precautions that they took, and that's why they settled
four millions of dollars. When it comes to the other thing, though,
let's use the coal miner's analogy. If somebody is in

(38:43):
a coal mine and there is a there is an
air ventilation system that would protect their lungs, but the
coal company decides that that costs too much money and
they want to serve their stockholders in maximize profits, so
they don't put in that air ventilation, and that person
ends up with lung problems years later, and they die

(39:05):
fifteen years later. And after they developed lung problems, that
coal company bought them in Inhaler and actually paid for
Inhaler's for them, but they still died from it. Does
that cole And I'm not saying it's a perfect analogy,
but I'm using this for the sake of example to
at least eliminate the idea that if a death happens
ten or fifteen years later, there's no culpability that person
in that coal mine developed a lung problem due to

(39:28):
a lack of initiate a lack of of the coal
mine company installing the ideal air ventilation system. My argument
with WWE is that it's very similar. There are things
that they can do today to make life for wrestlers
safer so that they are not building into the system

(39:50):
this we can't argue with the results. The results are here.
There is an out of disproportionate number. There is a
disproportionate number of wrestlers to work for WWE over the
years who are dying of drug related problems. And I'm
not saying that there isn't a choice that is made.
And I've said this on the radio show before, Chris.

(40:12):
I've said there is a moment when a wrestler takes
more than four pills than the bottle tells them they should,
and that is a level of personal responsibility that they
have that day that they chose to choose to take
more than the prescription dose. I don't deny that every
wrestler makes that conscious decision to take more than the
prescribed dose at some point, so I am absolutely saying

(40:32):
it's a shared responsibility. My argument, Chris is that WWE
has the power to make enough changes and has had.
I've been writing about this for fifteen years, and they've
dragged their feet the entire way for fifteen years into
what they now brag about. And we've been writing for
fifteen or plus years, twenty years about things that they
should do, and had they done the things that they've
done sooner, I believe people there'd be wrestlers alive today.

(40:55):
But my argument isn't that the wrestlers aren't responsible to
a great degree for that choice that they make the
day they take more pills. My argument is clearly, clearly
there are wrestlers who will who are going to sacrifice
in them. We're going to sacrifice their health in order
to keep up with everybody. They're going to take those

(41:16):
extra pills to work through the injuries because they don't
have time off. They're going to take extra pills to
get to sleep at night so that they can get up,
and then they're going to take pills so they can
get up in the morning to make the flight and
make the next show. And my argument is that WWE
is making enough money that they can take more steps
to make sure that they don't put wrestlers young wrestlers

(41:37):
who are trying to just make it and they've made
it this far, and they have worked really hard to
get to WWE. They're not going to just say, oh,
now that I have to take four pills instead of
the maximum per day three, I'm going to quit my job.
That's asking a lot of a twenty three year old
or twenty four year old to make that decision give
up his career instead of taking one extra pill. My

(41:59):
argument ism in the Ivory Tower, the Ivory executive Tower
that they live in, should be able to look at
the track record of WWE, see what's happening to a
disproportionately large number of its wrestlers over the years, and
say we haven't done enough. We need to do more.
We need to stop putting young, impressionable wrestlers who are

(42:19):
just getting to the point where they're earning enough to
make it, and they're on television and they're infatuated with
this entire this goal that they've achieved. It's unfair for WWE.

Speaker 2 (42:29):
I would argue to.

Speaker 1 (42:30):
Say, it's all lance K's fault, it's all Lunavashan's fault,
because they got addicted to pills, working the schedule that
we decide that they work, and if they don't work it.
We'll find someone else who will do it. So, Chris,
that's my argument. That's where I think there is a
level of greater responsibility for WWE, because they can do more.
I think they should. That's my argument, Chris, Go ahead,

(42:51):
I tucked a lot there.

Speaker 2 (42:52):
Go ahead, I know.

Speaker 7 (42:53):
But my point exactly is that's why I think it
puts a wellness policy in place to make sure that
there isn't another Christian Eddie Guerrero death until rest under contract.
That's the main goal, is another rest of one.

Speaker 15 (43:05):
Right.

Speaker 1 (43:06):
But here's the true But Chris, you're saying it's not
their fault what happened to Luna or Landpaide. And I
was writing about this stuff fifteen and twenty years ago,
and I know they've read it because I've gotten responses
from them over the years from it. This is something
you can't like. I'll go back to the coal mine.
The coal mine can say yesterday we installed air ventilation
systems that are gonna save the current workers from having

(43:28):
the long problems that the people that worked for us
ten and fifteen years ago have so quit talking to
us about the fact that we dragged our feet for
fifteen years, stalling air installing, installing the correct air exchanges. No,
you don't get to do the right thing today and
have the slate wiped clean for what you should have
done ten or fifteen years ago. That's my argument, That's
what that's my point is is it wasn't a mystery.

(43:48):
They could have and should have done more. Their only
excuse for not doing wellness testing before Eddie Garrero died
was oh WCW wasn't so we could afford to well
WW is out of business for years and years and
years before they reinstituted it. So they've dragged their feet,
and if you look at the track record that's been
frustrating for me for twenty years. They do it when

(44:09):
there's outside pressure. They don't initiate on their own. That's
my interpretation of it, and I think the facts back
it up. So when we say, oh, don't blame them
for Luna, there was a system in place back then
that they have to answer for today because the ramifications
are still being felt. So go ahead, Chris.

Speaker 7 (44:26):
No, the right question is if that's the case, then
why aren't these sounds arrestlers filing lossits against the other
be I mean, if that's the case, do they have
a legal round to stand on if they don't tend.

Speaker 1 (44:38):
I have to, I must, I must tiptoe delicately around this.

Speaker 2 (44:42):
But there are.

Speaker 1 (44:46):
There are ways to not have a family go to
the travel of suing you. There are ways to keep
it out of the limelight for pr reasons.

Speaker 2 (45:01):
And the absence of evidence is not proof of something.

Speaker 1 (45:06):
But the absence of proof does not eliminate so anyway
you can. I'm just saying that the families have their
families are often have their own reasons and are given
reasons not to pursue those matters. But but to me,
that's even irrelevant. I mean, honestly, does more a mother

(45:27):
or father, or wife or husband who's mourning the death,
do they really want to try to come up with
enough money to sue Wwe the massive corporation with excellent
lawyers who's whose sole job are to be pitbulls and
defend their their client, which is how the legal system
works and is what they should do. I mean, it's
that's a Dave, that's a David and Golia situation. But

(45:49):
you know, I so I put putting the burden on
the families again. I just think, come on, how about
ww just does the right thing in the first place.

Speaker 7 (46:00):
Hopefully they hopefully they will in the future. But I
just think that to blame that your deaths from ten
years ago, it's like, you know, there should be a
personal responsibility.

Speaker 1 (46:09):
Chris hold On, Come on, that takes us back to
the beginning. What about I'm passionate about this, so I'm
not offpsentagivet so forgive me if my tone comes across
that way. I'm just passionate. What about the coal analogy
doesn't make sense to you because if there were people
industry watchdog publications writing about how air ventilation systems would
save lives, and those people aren't going to die until
ten or fifteen years from now, and the cold company

(46:30):
didn't do it, and then ten or fifteen years people
are dying. It's hard to sit here and listen to
someone say, quit blaming them for something that happened ten
or fifteen years ago, when you can go on on
my website right now in the VIP section and look
up my back issue editorials. When Luis Spiccoli died, I
wrote about the pill problem, and I said this was
back in ninety seven, ninety around ninety seven, and when

(46:51):
he died, I said this, it's not steroids that it's
going to be causing that's going to be the major issue.
And it was all about steroids in the early nineties,
and I said, it's going to be pills, and here's
things they can do to stop it from happening right now.
And they didn't, and they didn't take those steps, and
so I'm just telling you, Chris, it's frustrating to hear
someone say, well, forgive them for what they did ten
or fifteen years ago, or forgive them for what they

(47:12):
didn't do, when exactly what we were writing about was
going to happen is happening. And I just the statute
limitations hasn't run out on what I think was callousness
on their part back then to not be more proactive
and not do more than they thought they had the
absolute legal responsibility to do. It's not it's just they
could have done more and they didn't, and they had
the money to do more, and even if they didn't

(47:33):
have the money to do more, they should have cared
enough about the wrestlers to make sure they did more
than they thought was adequate. And I don't think that
they've done that until the media pressure or government pressure
has been shining a spotlight on them. Yes, you can
support us on Patreon and get these shows with ads
and plugs removed, the weight Keller Pressing Podcast, Weight Keller
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(47:55):
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through Patreon.

Speaker 7 (48:16):
Well, what about TNA on each Basically there's always the
X doctor of talent who doesn't want to be drug
test to jumping ship. I mean that's TNA does nothing
about drug test.

Speaker 2 (48:26):
It's a farce.

Speaker 7 (48:27):
They just they sign every big name a w let's go.

Speaker 1 (48:30):
So you know you're gonna you're gonna say that the
Bohemoths WWE doesn't shouldn't be held accountable because there's a
company that is doing an even crappier job than they
are caring for their wrestlers. I mean that just doesn't
hold that. That's just it's what TNA does is irrelevant
to me. If the industry can't survive a safe environment,

(48:51):
then we all need to find something new to do
to entertain ourselves on Monday and Friday nights. I mean,
either you either you step up and you do what
you can afford to do, and WWE can afford to
do it. There's a condo. There's a big cond of
minium that the mcmandel and Florida that could pay. That
could have paid for a lot of drug testing of
wrestlers before the wellness policy was instituted. There's a lot
of private jets that cost a lot of money that

(49:12):
could have been commercial jets, flights, and that money could
have gone to save lives of wrestlers. Don't tell, don't
I'm not going to listen to an argument that WWE
is too poor to do the right thing.

Speaker 2 (49:21):
They're not.

Speaker 1 (49:21):
They have no no. And so so if you're saying, well,
you're being unfair because you're not talking equally about TNA.
We talk about TNA, I write about CNA. They are
an issue. But WWE is the leader and they can
set the tone. And you know, what if WWE did
the right thing starting way back in the mid nineties,
or at least when they absorbed ww and no longer

(49:42):
had that top level competition to worry to quote worry about.
If they had done then they would be the ones
speaking out against TNA. They'd they and they'd have the
power to shame Spike TV into making DNA do the
right thing.

Speaker 7 (49:53):
Yes, I make that I understand your points completely. I
think it was no excuse for them not having any
kind of drug testing. So two thousand five.

Speaker 1 (50:05):
And christ thanks you a call. Call back again sometime
because we can continue engage in the discussion. It's a
little tough with the background noise with you too. I
fear for the listeners being distracted by that. But you know,
part of part of it isn't just drug testing. I mean,
it really is a lot of other things. And they've
done a lot. I mean, and let me be honest,
not that I was ever dishonest, me let me make

(50:26):
sure that I make this point. WWE has done a
lot of good things since Eddie Gurow died. They've done
a lot of good things. My argument is with saying
that anything that happened before Eddy Garrow doesn't count because
who could have possibly foreseen all this happening. And my
argument is I've been writing about it long enough and
talking to wrestlers about it long enough and seeing with
my own eyes the problems that were going on. And

(50:46):
it's not like wrestlers weren't going to rehab or in
need of rehab in the nineties.

Speaker 2 (50:50):
They were.

Speaker 1 (50:51):
The warning sides were there. There's nothing that says, there's
no constitution of the United States that requiresw you need
to run the schedule that they've run, and and and
you know, you can be you can say it's not
it will never work. But wwe could have a larger
roster of wrestlers, all of whom collectively make less money individually,

(51:11):
but the same talent, the same budget for talent, But
everybody makes a thirty percent less money, but they all
get thirty percent more time off. And Yeah, the wrestlers
who just want to grind it out on the road
because they can handle it and they don't need pills
because they're superman. They may say, no, don't punish me
because other people are weak and can't handle the schedule.
But that doesn't that just doesn't work with me. That
argument doesn't work with me. I think it's a job.

(51:32):
I don't think it's the job of the company. The
set the bar so high that only Superman, only people
who have these incredible amount of of of dexterity, can
handle it, and that all while a few people who
are weak are going to drop off and die off.

Speaker 2 (51:45):
You know that that's not that. It's just pro.

Speaker 1 (51:47):
Wrestling, it's not. This isn't the military, this isn't national defense.
It's entertainment. Let's set up a structure that protects their
wrestlers so that they can entertain us without a steady
stream year after year after year dying either because they're
currently on the roster or we're recently on the roster
like Lanscade, or weren't out haven't been on the roster
for a decade. There are changes that can be made

(52:07):
in the schedule that would make a difference, and there's
a lot of good things WWE has done that are
going to mean there's probably going to be fewer wrestlers
dying in fifteen years. And that's great and they absolutely
deserve they deserve credit for doing the right thing now,
but that doesn't wipe the slate clean. The statute of
limitations hasn't run out in my opinion, on them taking

(52:27):
as long as they did to do the things that
we've been writing about for ten, fifteen, twenty years. Anyway,
you can don't passion about it. Chris, Thanks for your call,
and please call again. I'll engage with you more. We've
got people who've been on a hold a while and
we're down to ten minutes, so in fairness to them
and people who've heard me rant on this enough, let's
get back to the phone lines. Let's go to Eric
code four to seven eight. Thanks for calling and thanks

(52:47):
for holding. Please state your name and where you're from.

Speaker 2 (52:51):
Christian Georgia.

Speaker 1 (52:52):
Hey, Chris, what's on your mind today?

Speaker 11 (52:55):
To see think let's just kind of pick it back
to the question that the actually jation got back Q
and A last Friday. I think I was somebody had
asked him like, who is he going further? Like Dame
Ryan or Caval and his question his answer was, he said,
was probably surprized people like Caval. I went with you guys,
thoughts with on that, James, what do you think?

Speaker 16 (53:15):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (53:16):
I haven't really thought about that, but I think Caval
has he has a little bit more of a marketability
factor in for WW than than Brian so far. I
think Brian now, I really like the promo change he
had with the Miz on Raw on Monday, but there's
just something that's just I don't know if it's a

(53:37):
little bit off for it's just a little bit different
than your typical w W marketable star, just just I
don't even know what it is. It's just he doesn't
quite have that it's factor yet for WW. Whereas Caval,
I think he was amazing on the n XT in
the ring, he developed that personality, uh, he got his
move stut over. I think he's he's got a little

(53:57):
bit more of a marketability in terms of what they
can do with them matching up with some bigger opponents.
Get that sympathy on on Caval, have him kind of
be that ring a serial character as a baby face,
assuming that he does say baby face for a while.
So I see Kaval having more upside than Brian, just
because I don't know if w W really knows how

(54:17):
to market Daniel Brian yet, and I don't know that
Daniel Brian knows how to market himself yet to a
WW audience, And and they're kind of finding their way
through that. We saw a little bit of that on
Monday with that long promo with the Miz. Right now,
I think I think Cabal is set up to be
a more marketable star, but that could definitely change when
WW and Brian kind of figure it out as it

(54:39):
kind of go along.

Speaker 1 (54:41):
What's your opinion, Chris, who do you think is.

Speaker 3 (54:44):
It's more more likely to Actually, let's put this way,
I think Brian should have a lot of fire with him.

Speaker 11 (54:52):
He's changed with Michael Cole. The thing looks like he
smiled a little bit too much medium Monday night. Fat.

Speaker 2 (54:58):
Yeah, that's kind of what I was getting there. Yeah,
you know he could.

Speaker 1 (55:03):
Oh well, let me let me throw Sorry, Chris, I
ask you a question that I interrupt, but let me
give my two cents on it real quick. I think
they're pretty much neck and neck, and I know it
sounds like a cop out answer. I think that Daniel
Brian probably would have a slight edge in my opinion,
but I don't feel real strongly about that. I think
they both have uphill battles because of their height, but

(55:25):
they both style wise, I think offer a lot. Obviously,
Daniel Brian is phenomenal in the ring. In cabal in
different ways, some similar but some different ways. It is
also phenomenal in the ring if they let him show
that that side of him off. I think they both
have real upward mobility. I don't know that their pay
per remain eventors. You know, I don't know that they'll
reach the level that Aida Gar and Chris Benwan did,

(55:47):
but but I do think that they can be mainstays
on the roster, and I think that they probably will
both have similar careers. And I would say just from
my uh from an income standpoint, they might They might
both make about the same amount of money over the
next five years if if they're you know, able to
hang on with you know, hang on with management and
stay in favor of management.

Speaker 2 (56:09):
Uh.

Speaker 11 (56:10):
My thing was like, you know, I feel they're kind
of about Nick and Nick but there you like, you know,
I'm just saying like, if Brian could catch the same
fire he had when he was topping micro Cole all
those times of XT, you'll be take me fine. I mean,
just us is a little bit. But you know, I
also had the idea, like, you know, if they're going
to unify the Icy title in the US, title. What
could happen is since Cavalos smack down, they both get

(56:34):
their hands on both belts and then they duke it
out for the unification of it, which would be a
nice match.

Speaker 2 (56:39):
You know, you think, Yeah, the big one it was
the uh I mean the.

Speaker 11 (56:45):
Whole program he say, I mean he said the whole
program is or whatnot? Like you know, it's been a
culmination of a couple of months, so it's pretty different him.
And the thing is that he uh basically, I mean
the belts couldn't kind of maybe forgives it Brian making cash.

Speaker 17 (57:01):
In later on.

Speaker 11 (57:02):
But uh, you know, I think I think they can
make it. It's just going to be more of an
up feel down for them because of side.

Speaker 2 (57:09):
Yeah, I'm with you.

Speaker 1 (57:10):
I mean, I I agree with your assessment of it.

Speaker 2 (57:12):
Uh, I don't. I don't, I don't.

Speaker 1 (57:13):
I'll put this way. I mean, I clearly don't have
a heavy favorite. I mean, I think they both have
an opportunity to make it. I you know, I like
I said, I give a little bit of an edge
to Daniel Brian. Daniel, but Daniel Bryan. But I can't
strong I can't say Jason's grazy for picking cabal either
because I've been a fan of Loki for a long time.
I mean, when we one of my top ten drastic

(57:34):
columns several years ago, UH picked, I decided to choose
all cruiser weights, so I thought that was the best
way to enter the marketplace and and UH and present
a product that would be different and I think captured
the attention to the younger male demographic who were into
the you know, the whole athletic X games and athleticism
and and all that. And I think it's an underrated
part of what made Nitro succeed and an underrated part
of what made raw overtake Nitro was the mid card

(57:56):
athleticism and and Loki was one of my it's not
my top pick, certainly on my high on my top
ten list at that point. I've been a fan for
a long time and see a real upside with him.

Speaker 18 (58:10):
In twenty twelve, NXT transitioned into the developmental system and
ultimately the brand you see today. On the Torch VIP
podcast NXT eight years back, we'll be taking a weekly
look at this page in.

Speaker 19 (58:23):
NXT's early history. Join Kelly Wells and me Tom Stout
from PWT Talks NXT every Saturday as we go eight
years back to the day to track NXT's rising talents
and why they did or didn't work out, exclusively for
PW Torch VIP members.

Speaker 1 (58:41):
All right, cool, Hey Chris, thanks to your call. Please
call again when we have a little bit more time.
Let's go back and forth. I want to get to
the callers who have been on hold for quite a
while and go to Erico two one five. Please state
your name and where you're from. Two one five, you're
on the show. All right, we will move to Eric
code seven oh three. Please state your name and where

(59:02):
you're from.

Speaker 20 (59:05):
Oh, hey, y'all, it's Larry from Atlanta.

Speaker 1 (59:07):
Hey, Larry, good here for me again. What's on your
mind today?

Speaker 2 (59:10):
Hey, nothing much.

Speaker 20 (59:12):
I just sort of called in and one on hold.
But I didn't like Chris's call. I really don't think
that guy's an honest broker, and he may have a
sort of an honest disagreement, but it just seems like
he's being dense on how much responsibility and influence WWE
had on all of those wrestlers' lifestyles.

Speaker 1 (59:32):
Yeah, I mean I sat in the courtroom in ninety
four when essic Man was on trial and for Farrah distribution,
which he was acquitted on. I'd like to point out
he's found not guilty and and the people who were
around in that atmosphere who were who were WWE fans.
There were people with buttons and and free Vince and

(59:54):
you couldn't have asked them. They couldn't give you one
answer on the facts of the case. They just wanted
Vince to be free because they were blind WWE fans.
I don't think Christopher Brooklyn was that kind, was that level.
I think he was making an honest argument that I
think is what comes up with most people they think,
or not most people, because I don't know if it's
most people.

Speaker 2 (01:00:10):
But a lot of people, and I hear this a lot.

Speaker 1 (01:00:12):
They think, well, the wrestler made the choice to put
the pills in their mouth, and ww doesn't require it
of them, and I think it does. I understand that
it takes that. It takes some examples and a little
bit more of talking it out to kind of understand
that it's not so much what did WWE have to
do legally, it's what could they have done that they
chose not to that could have made a difference, and

(01:00:34):
it really is asking them not to do It's so
hard to put the right word to it. It's just
we kind of saw that there was a chance this
was going to happen, and they could have taken more
steps to stop it, and they didn't, and it's frustrating.
And I don't think we can look back and just say, no,
you know, it was a wrestler's fault. It was all
the wrestler's fault. Anyway, go ahead, Larry.

Speaker 20 (01:00:55):
Yeah, sure, well let me the show's wrapping up, so
y'all can take this in VIPU and G. But I
really enjoyed you and Bruce talking about Raven's letter, particularly
on how absurd his points on chair shots to the
head were.

Speaker 2 (01:01:08):
And so I guess I'm wondering if you both can
follow up on what you think.

Speaker 20 (01:01:11):
It would take for wrestlers wrestlers themselves to come around
and realize that the kind of situations that they're being
set up to do that aren't good for their health
should be changed.

Speaker 1 (01:01:21):
Good question, Larry. Thanks, we'll address that in the after show.
Let's try to get in one more call here and
go to seven seventh three. Please state your name and
where you're from. With a quick question or comment seven
seven three? Did we lose you?

Speaker 2 (01:01:38):
All right?

Speaker 1 (01:01:38):
Let's six seven eight you've been on a hold a while?
A real quick question or comment from you?

Speaker 21 (01:01:43):
Hey, guys, Yeah, I'll make it really fast.

Speaker 2 (01:01:46):
One question.

Speaker 21 (01:01:47):
I had to argument with my friend the other day.
We were talking about steroids and WW you guys that
were still on it. My friend says that wellness policy works,
and he was saying he thinks John Seen is not
on gear, which I.

Speaker 2 (01:01:57):
Told him was. I mean, it's just physically a little
it's like an impossibility.

Speaker 21 (01:02:01):
I was in the gym for a long time by
out of high school.

Speaker 2 (01:02:04):
Ten seconds? What push fantage of guys in w W second? Great?

Speaker 1 (01:02:11):
Thanks your question. We'll take that in the VIP after show.
Sorry about that live callers who aren't VIP members, but
we'll uh, we'll try to have more time tomorrow. I
joined James tomorrow with a special guest co host on
BEHAF James called wad Keller signing off.

Speaker 22 (01:02:25):
All right, James, we're in the using blog talk radio.

Speaker 1 (01:02:28):
Goodbye. We're in the VIP after show portion of the program. James,
you're still there, Yeah, I'm here.

Speaker 3 (01:02:34):
Cool.

Speaker 1 (01:02:35):
We're just gonna be a little shorter than usual because
I've just been a crazy day and I've got places
to go already after this, because I wasn't necessarily anticipating
being as late as I was arriving today to the office.
So but anyway, a couple of good questions. The scare
ride thing. You know, let's be honest, we'd be totally speculating.

Speaker 2 (01:02:54):
But what the last you know, what exactly what you're
talking about.

Speaker 1 (01:03:00):
Is testosterone under the prescription of a doctor considered a
steroid or not. You know, if John Cena says I'm
not on steroids because in his mind anabolic steroids that
you inject for muscle building purposes, well I'm not doing that.
But is is John Cena or any other WWE wrestler
on heavy doses of testosterone that where there's a rationale

(01:03:22):
medically for it due to any number of reasons, which
also can be that that self fulfilling situation where if
you take it, your body stops making it, if you
take if you take synthetic testosterone, your body stops making
testosterone naturally. And when you and the stuff that I

(01:03:43):
what I've read on this is when when people who
have low t you hear the commercials now you got
low t They don't. They don't advise that those patients
are on it constantly, that they want them to get
on it, but then get off it on a regular
basis psycholone psychloss, so that the body continues to kick
in the natural production of it and it doesn't shut
down entirely. If you don't do that, then you might

(01:04:04):
need to be on it forever in order to not
just completely go super low on it. And so this
is what we don't have is the information. And this
is where if ww is proud of their policy and
they really think it's effective, then why not be more
transparent with it. And so my answer to that caller's
question is, we don't know. We would be guessing what

(01:04:25):
he said as someone who's been in a gym and knows,
you know, how you know, John Cena is a genetic
freak if that's if that's protein and weights, He's a
genetic freak if that's all it is is protein and
legal supplements and weightlifting. But those genetic freaks do exist
to a certain extent. But if we add a completely
transparent policy, we'd be better off. Tell us when they

(01:04:47):
tell us when you test and tell us what the
test results are. Don't attach the names to it, but
let us know how many people have doctor's prescription excuses
for testosterone. Just be forthright. If you've got nothing to hide,
then it's educate us on it. Have a page on
your website and say this, many wrestlers have have this
much testosterone raise levels in their system. But here's why

(01:05:08):
it's medically justified. And if they don't do that, then
we don't know and they leave it open for speculation.
We're not going to just take their word for it.
That's not how the world works. And so my take
on it is WW just needs to be more transparent
and then they won't have they won't have callers like
our caller and people on the street speculating, media, assuming
or guessing. Just be more transparent. James, your thoughts.

Speaker 2 (01:05:30):
Yeah, but that's what's been driven me crazy about this
wellness policy is they created it, they've added a few revisions,
they added an impact test for concussions, and there's still
there's no transparency that they don't And I don't know
if it's because the talent's independent contractors and they feel like, well, well,
we can't disclose. I don't know if it's an independent
contractor versus employee type deal or they can't disclose. Like

(01:05:53):
you said, don't put the names on it, just yeah
list And the same with concussions. I mean they they
have this whole pdf on their on their website on
how they test for concussions, yet there's never any disclosure
of how they apply it. There's no application out.

Speaker 1 (01:06:07):
Of their policy. Why hide it if you're proud of
this and they go, well, it's a privacy issue. It
is not a privacy issue to say, we tested seventeen
wrestlers on August twentieth, and six of them came up
positive for this and were given warnings, and two of
them had or twelve of them had raised distosterol levels.
All twelve had a doctor prescription and the testosterone level

(01:06:29):
was x what was what was the testosterone level? And
in each case they had a medical reason for it.
And if they did that, that would be going so
much further and not one person's privacy would be violated.
Not one person's privacy be violated because nobody would know
who individually it was who tested positive. But at least
we'd have a record on their corporate website that showed

(01:06:50):
us how often they're testing and what and how often
the tests and what kind of test results are coming in.
And it would, it would if they're proud of this policy,
that would be a way to exponentially increase the accountability
and that that sense that we really do know what
is going on in that policy. Otherwise we're taking their
word for it. They might not have a policy when
it comes to public accountability if they're not going to

(01:07:12):
disclose more about it.

Speaker 2 (01:07:14):
And that's what kind of drives me crazy about the
you know, the mainstream media or the Connecticut reporters may
get a chance to ask Lindon, she gives a standard response, Oh,
you know, go to the website, check the policy we
instituted in six or five. There's never that follow up quote.
I mean, there's so many different follow up questions you
could ask, but one of them is, Okay, well, I
went to the website and I see the policy, but

(01:07:36):
I seem to be missing some transparency on your end.
I don't see any disclosure of how you've applied this policy.
I just see some words on a piece of paper
and it seems kind of nice, and it sounds kind
of cool, and it seems like you're doing something for
the talent, but you're not disclosing how any of this
is being applied. I don't know if this is actually
being applied.

Speaker 19 (01:07:53):
ORF.

Speaker 2 (01:07:53):
It's just on your corporate website and you don't really
use it. And that's what you know. They haven't been
able to take the next step and say, you know,
first of all, you know, why didn't you have a
drug testing policy during this time period and especially after
your competition was gone. And if that's your excuse for
why you pulled in the first place in the middle
of the in the mid nineteen nineties, you know, if

(01:08:15):
that's your excuse, why wasn't that there. The other fault
question is where's the transparency, And there isn't and there
hasn't been, especially the concussion testing, and that's what's that's
what's really drawn my hire on the concussions is the
lack of transparent to lack of acknowledging that yes, we
did test x individual. This person was set in the
sidelines for thirty days and so they're medically clear too.

(01:08:37):
We don't get that information and that needs to be disclosed.
As a publicly traded company, supposedly with this great wellness policy,
and it's just it's frustrating, you.

Speaker 1 (01:08:47):
Know, and then leads us into the other question James
about Cherchat's too. You know, what would it take for
wrestlers to do it? Because that's what that's what for us,
And that's what I got into with Chris too. Is
asking a twenty four or twenty seven year old rest
or who's got that carrot dangling in front of them
that you might become You've worked this hard to get
where you are, and now because you're not willing to

(01:09:09):
take a couple extra pills, or you're not willing to
endure pain or work through headaches and concussion symptoms, you're
going to get passed by someone else who now, in
two or three or four years, is on the fast
track to earn eight hundred thousand or one point six
million or two point four million dollars. That is asking
a lot of somebody who's in a business where there's
a lot of people who want their spot, and I

(01:09:30):
think it's asking more than should be asked of that individual.
When you create that incentive for someone and you're the
entity dangling that carot in front of them, you have
a responsibility to or whatever word you want to use.
People have a knee jggrash or get tense up when
they hear the word responsibility. But whatever words suit to you,
that doesn't set off, you know, the red alarm, you know,

(01:09:52):
a duty or a moral obligation or whatever to say,
all right, are we is this carrot's getting such an
incentive that somebody's going to do something that that hurts them.
And when it comes to the chair shots, a lot
of guys don't want to be the one to stand
up and say no, I won't take a chair shot
to the head. There are some wrestlers who do, and
you know what, sometimes those wrestlers pay a price from

(01:10:13):
from a culture standpoint in that backer room for not
being willing to take the same sacrifices that other people
who paid the way for them did. Which is why
I hate the phrase paid the way, because to me,
that means whatever dumb things I did in the past,
you have to do it too to earn your keyth
that's inherent in that phrase sometimes and I.

Speaker 2 (01:10:29):
Can't really think of it abe example off the top
of my head, but the one that comes right to
mind is in TNA when Jesse Neil and Rob Terry
took those chair shots to the head and one of
the you know, first one or two or three pay
per view matches, you know from I believe it was
from Team three D or Team three D was involved
somehow and was this thing where it's like they had
to kind of go, like you said, go through what

(01:10:49):
team you know, the stupid stuff Team three D in
the East se you guys did back in the day,
you know, to belong, to be part of, you know,
to to be accepted. And I just I just shook
my head when that happened, and that they would do
that and they think that's the ticket to didn't respect
in the locker room or getting a higher spot in
the car, and I just think that's so ridiculous. And
that was just really frustrating. That kind of came in

(01:11:11):
mind when you said that. Yeah, yeah, all right, Jans,
I gotta run. So h yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:11:17):
The bottom line is that wrestlers need to step up,
and uh and and and and it needs to be
a locker room leader who's got the power.

Speaker 5 (01:11:25):
To do it.

Speaker 2 (01:11:26):
And you ww needs to step up as well. And
then you, like I said, they you know, they've they've
been very active for as long as they've been around.
And it's just I don't know, I mean, how many
times is the bill gonna come do on the these
rossers from the nineties or the eighties dying or like
we thought with Jim Ninehart, where uh, this family comes
out and says we don't want him to be another statistic. Yeah,

(01:11:48):
and they said that they they they didn't quite go
this far, but they said we fear for his life.
You know, they kind of use different wording, but hello,
you know, I mean that's I mean, he's a product
of that error when they did not have any sort
of testing. It's kind of a free willing deal. And
you know, the bill comes to and ww is still responsible.
It still says WW on the on the invoice or
the absolutely bill sale whatever analogy. But all right, cool,

(01:12:11):
Thanks James, I'll look forward to tomorrow show. Yep, thanks Milly.
All right, thanks all V team members. Until next time.

Speaker 1 (01:12:17):
Way Kellernbpagens called we'll signing off. Anytime you're watching ww
E Raw or SmackDown or AW Dynamite in particular, send
us an email if you've got thoughts on the show
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Podcast at pewtorch dot com. If there's anything else going

(01:12:39):
on in pro wrestling that you want us to address
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We invite that interaction. Let us know what you think
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Wadekeller Podcast at pw torch dot com.

Speaker 4 (01:13:02):
You're listening to the p.

Speaker 2 (01:13:03):
B Torch live cast. This is PW Torch Assistant editor
James Caldwell hosting Today on Thursday, September the ninth, twenty ten,
and I'm joined by a very special guest co host today,
Ring Them honor writer producer Jack of All Trades, Dave Loganta. Dave,
how are you doing today?

Speaker 16 (01:13:21):
I'm great and Jack is usually in front of something else,
usually asked, so I'm willing to be Jack of whatever
you'd like, So there you go.

Speaker 2 (01:13:30):
David, what exactly is it that you do with Ring
of Minor? Mean, you've seen us where a lot of
different hats. So the kid the listeners an idea of
what you do exactly, what is kind of your your
regular duties or line of business with Ring of Honor? Uh, yeah,
go ahead. What do I do?

Speaker 16 (01:13:49):
I jack of all trades. I kind of basically handle
everything that you see on the television show from soup
to nuts. A lot less, booking, a lot more just
making sure, uh, the playbook that is established by those
who who put out the plays. I make sure they're
executed properly for television. I handle the timing of the show.
I handle the execution of the interviews, the packages like

(01:14:14):
the uh the sit down package with Davy and Tyler
last time you know in their own words, which is
building up that were built up in their pay per
view match last time. I produced that anything you seen
the TV show. Basically I have a final cut on
the show. I'm the Kevin Dunn of ROH, which is
a much much smaller paycheck.

Speaker 2 (01:14:31):
So that's what that's true. Very good, And of course
we'll we'll want to talk about the Ring of Honor
of pay per view coming up on Saturday, A couple
of you know, some pretty big matchups, the debuts of Shelton,
Benjamin and Charlie Hats and Ring of Honor. If you
want to call in and talk to Dave specifically about
that pay per view or stuff going on in Ring
of Honor, the number to call and reach us on

(01:14:52):
the live cast today is six four, six, seven nine eight. Dave,
regarding that the Glory by on her ninth pay per
view on Saturday, it's kind of the big theme that
you guys have for this this month, and you know,
you guys are kind of doing a bi monthly pay
per view now, is it sort of the focus? Is

(01:15:13):
the focus more on that title match and potentially Title
Black's last Ring of Honor match? Or is it, you know,
kind of more of that that debut of Shelton and
Charlie Hants facing up against your tag team champs, the
Kings of Rustling. What's kind of the emphasis this month?

Speaker 16 (01:15:29):
I think a lot like last year's show had basically
the same thing. It's it's and I hate not using
the word comings and goings, but it's kind of like
I just wrote a blog that'll be up on Paul
Haman's website, The Hayman Hustle later today, questioning is this
the end of Ring of Honor, and basically this is
a just a chapter change for Ring of Honor, where

(01:15:50):
here was Tyler Black who arguably was the number one
star of the and then police put it especially the
TV show for the eighteen months that we've been on
the air with hd NET. You know, he's coming to
a close here in Ring of Honor, and you know,
right on his heels comes to new guys from the
WWE to make their debut in a high profile that show.
It's kind of a kind of a new chapter. One

(01:16:11):
chapter is closing, a new ones opening, and it's going
to be a gonna be show. I think a lot
of people are gonna be talking about and uh and
I bet you a lot more people are interested in
than other pay per views that took place in the
last five days.

Speaker 2 (01:16:24):
Yeah, I believe I'd be a reference to TNA No Surrender. Yeah,
because you know, kind of watching the hype on on
the TV show as well as kind of the video
wires and uh, the news and the news wires that
Ring of Minor puts out. To me, it seems like
the hype has been more on you know, Hawks and
Benjamin and not so much on uh, Tyler Black versus

(01:16:45):
Roderic Strong, and and to me you kind of speak
more of this is is Roderick Strong sort of a
centerpiece guy to build around for Ring of Honor? And
like you said, the next chapter, are you guys possibly
looking at some other guys? Uh maybe a annuals are
going back to Austin Ares or are there a couple
other maybe Chris Hero in a singles role and in
the singles made event push. Are there some other guys

(01:17:07):
you guys are looking at his potential head I mean,
I mean, as much as you can talk about this
headline acts you Steel, you can build that TV and
the overall product.

Speaker 16 (01:17:16):
Around right now, I think Roderick Strong will get a chance,
you know, if he is successful and beating Tyler Black
this weekend. And I'll disagree with you a little bit
as far as that. The story obviously shifted mid August
when you know it was announced that Tyler signed and
now it seems like he wants to. I mean, if
you've seen his last two promos he's done, the last

(01:17:37):
two video wires, especially the one that closes the one
this week, it's it's the promo of his life, and
it's all true it's he feels like people don't apprec
never appreciated his time here. Uh and you know this
match really to him is could be his big I
F you on the way out to everybody and wondering what,
you know, what his future will be and leaving a champion.

(01:18:00):
But as far as Roderick goes, Roderick is a maina
meant guy here and he's just he's got one thing
he has an accomplished in the Ring of Honor, and
that's becoming the r H champion. And I'm one to
bet if roder Strong becomes the r OH World Champion,
he's gonna have a lot of guys gunning for him.
But this is a guy that's waited. I think it's
been seven years that he's been here. And I've heard
the term bridesmaid a lot when it comes to Roddy
where he can't get the job done. You know, if

(01:18:23):
he can prove it this this this Saturday, almost said
this Sunday, this Saturday with a pay per view, you
know he's gonna have it's gonna be on his shoulders
to carry the company. And that's a big job and
it's one that I think he feels he's ready for
and he feels like maybe that's a great story because
he feels like he's been passed by and it's so
much interesting personality clashes here. There's there's so many layers

(01:18:44):
to the story that I think it's interesting and and
there's no fireballs, there's no boards with nails in it.
This is just a simple story about two people, two personalities,
and the two different directions of their career could be
going after Saturday.

Speaker 2 (01:18:58):
And that's kind of what I liked about the ring
of mount of product over the last several months and
kind of going back to last years these stories. You
kind of got that sense with Davy Richards the last
pay per view when he challenged Black for the Hardway title,
there was that journey in place where play Davy was
on the quest for that title. The other big story
you know that's been playing on pretty much the entire

(01:19:19):
year is the Kevin Steen and Carino versus Generical and
Command of feud, and that's played out, I mean since
the very first pay per view in December, the Internet
first Internet pay per view. Guys had talk a little
bit about that story in the background on how you
guys have hyped that match and what kind of your
expectations are for Well, it should be a pretty you know,

(01:19:41):
a pretty big brawl with a double chain match format
for their tag match on the pay per view on Saturday.

Speaker 16 (01:19:47):
Yeah, it should be pretty violent. If you know anything
that these matches and it's been it's been nice. I
mean it seems like now huge between people are only
personal for the four weeks between Paper Vie Use.

Speaker 17 (01:20:01):
This one's now raging nine months and you know, I mean.

Speaker 16 (01:20:04):
It's pretty It's a pretty simple story.

Speaker 17 (01:20:06):
Is Kevin Stein felt like.

Speaker 16 (01:20:08):
Elegenerica was holding them back, and their relationship prior to
that basically gave every signal to that. You know, it's
not like they were best. You know that they were
like you and see this coming, you know what I
mean anytime and I joined I joined Roh late as
far as this story, you know, I came on board
in about two thousand and nine. And he always saw
this dynamic of like the big brother who hated his
little brother, who drove him insane. That was the story

(01:20:29):
between Generico and Steam. So for them to be able to,
you know, for the story to splinter this way, and
Steve Corino, who came out of nowhere. I mean in
two thousand and nine, where was you know, Steve Carino
wasn't even on the map as far as national prominence,
and now here he is imagined Kevin Stein in this
In this program, he's really shown the world exactly how
good a talker and a performer and a worker and

(01:20:51):
a wrestler he is and everything that he'll tell everybody
how good he is. And Colt Cabana too, you know,
Colt kind of you know, came back to ROH and
was in the dreaded program at the Embassy, but now
is you know, taking up for El Generico. He's really
kind of found himself in this really heated rivalry and
and and the chain match. Literally they've been tied together
for a year almost in this program and literally they'll

(01:21:14):
be tied together with a chain on Saturday Night.

Speaker 2 (01:21:18):
Very basic visual and it's effective, I think, you know,
I thought the TV hype was pretty strong for that,
as well as the video wires and uh Steam's promos.
I mean, he's advanced. I've been steamed for years, going
back to PWG in the mid two thousands, and I've
seen his growth. I mean, he just has his natural
charisma in the ring, and you guys really tapped into

(01:21:38):
that with these kind of healish promos, so that it's
been fun to watch on this and reviewing it well.
Of course on the left cast say, we also talked
w W and TNA subjects. Dave tweets a lot during
TNA and w W shows ron n XT this week.
Uh so he will definitely be able to talk any
subject rus sooner lated if you want to call in

(01:21:59):
talk Wrestling, Takara Wan or TNA w W, but number
to call again is six four, six seven two one
nine eight two eight. Uh. And one thing that I
wanted to kind of bring up was the Mits and
Morrison and this is kind of uh something that you
were very much a part of in w W on
the East W brand a writing for them. We saw

(01:22:19):
a little bit of that on on Raw this Monday
when Missus had that long promo with Daniel Bryan kind
of mentioned his journey and his journey being part of
the East W brand with John Morrison, went a little
bit about the kind of the backstory and how that
came about, and and how you were involved in writing
them and putting that team together and and developing one

(01:22:40):
of the you know, one of the top tag teams
in the last two or three years.

Speaker 16 (01:22:43):
Yeah, I mean those those two, uh, you know, there
are two guys. I was very glad I got to
work with both. Actually came from tough Enough, you know,
john John Kamiginus, he was known before he was Johnny Nitrow,
you know one tough Enough. I don't remember what season,
but I was. I had the fortunate pleasure of producing
their first pre day of him and Matt Capitelli that

(01:23:04):
it was a Chicago raw where it was at right
after they won. They were initiated to WW by Tommy
Dreamer and I think was the only pro I one
of the only pro Tommy Dreamer moments on raw. I
think he beat the crap out of him with canes
way back. I think was he two thousand and three
or maybe it was two thousand and four, And you know,
Johnny then went to developmental and.

Speaker 17 (01:23:24):
At the same time mis came along.

Speaker 16 (01:23:27):
I don't remember exactly what, but he wasn't that tough
Enough that was on SmackDown and he.

Speaker 17 (01:23:31):
Really if everyone remembers that one, Daniel Peter.

Speaker 16 (01:23:35):
Was the far and away winner of that one from
the beginning. But what people didn't know about MS was
every week he was getting steam as far as votes.

Speaker 17 (01:23:42):
People were getting more and more into him.

Speaker 16 (01:23:44):
By the time they had that boxing match and he
basically lasted with Daniel Peter, who had gotten this reputation
as the guy that you know, had Kurt Angle locked
in that keylock. He went tod a toll in a
boxing match with Daniel Peter and showed he was actually
a lot tougher than people thought.

Speaker 17 (01:23:58):
So, you know when MS, he was so busy after
that with MTV.

Speaker 16 (01:24:02):
That you know, I was always asking about him, like,
this guy has it, you know what I mean? He
had it so once he kinally got in the developmental
process and everything and he was in Georgia, you know,
there became a shift on SmackDown and myself and Alice
Greenfield thought he'd make a great host, you know, off
his MTV stuff as a starting.

Speaker 17 (01:24:21):
Point, you know, and then let him be a heal.

Speaker 16 (01:24:23):
That was actually very funny to see that image of
him in the crowd.

Speaker 2 (01:24:26):
On that stuff.

Speaker 16 (01:24:26):
But for the years that they, you know, eminem was
very successful. That gimmick was all Johnny Nitro and Melina
and Joy Mercury's.

Speaker 17 (01:24:35):
Idea literally all we did was take what they.

Speaker 16 (01:24:37):
Were doing in OVW and put on television here, you know,
with the with the added differences of like production value
as far as the red carpet and all that stuff,
and those kids got over, you know what I mean.

Speaker 17 (01:24:48):
I think they were only a team for a year
and a half.

Speaker 16 (01:24:51):
On TV, and much like Charlie Hastens, Shelton Benjamin were
a team that were cut short, way too soon. So
when when Johnny Nitro had gone on to Raw and
kind of you know, he was Intercontinental champion but he
never had his chance, and MS was doing jobs on
Smack Dawn, there came a point for that draft, the
Chris ben Law Draft, I'll just call it the you know,
the year that ECW lost a lot of his stars

(01:25:13):
and in return we got MWS and Morrison because at
the time, neither one of the other shows knew what
to do with them and had kind of thrown their
hands up. So it was kind of a nice opportunity
for them to really shine. And you know, Morrison became
John Morrison, the King ECW Champion and really kind of
showed everybody that he could be a top guy at
that level. First and you know, since then, he's really

(01:25:35):
I think, had a chance to prove himself on a
larger level, and the same one miz We put him
in a program with Kelly Kelly and Balls Mahoney, which,
at least that year with the longest running storyline the
company had, isn't They went like nineteen weeks of Balls
and Kelly, and you know, he really showed that he
could do it.

Speaker 17 (01:25:52):
And then it came down to one night I.

Speaker 16 (01:25:55):
Think Matt Hardy and MVP somehow ended up his tight
Team Champions and they wanted to pick the titles off them,
and suggestions were thrown around of teams to.

Speaker 2 (01:26:03):
Take it off.

Speaker 16 (01:26:03):
And since don't really have a tank ting division, one
suggestion was a team up the Great Colleague and UH
Mark Henry and I hear I hear people, I hear
people UH running for the hills to see that one.
So I had suggested what about mis and Morrison because
at the time they were feuding with UH with CM

(01:26:24):
punk for the TCW title. I thought, well, they had
such great chemistry against each other, maybe if they bonded
together it would be good. And and in spar a
different related story, there was even talk back when Mercury
went away that miss was going to become the partner
for Morrison as a new member of Eminem, So it
was funny to bring them together. And here they were
supposed to be a makeshift team for two weeks to
be champions, and they had such great chemistry. They lasted

(01:26:47):
a year and a half, and I was very proud
of about them.

Speaker 2 (01:26:51):
Yeah, it's fascinating, you know what I mean, because MS
was I mean, he talked about this, He talked about
this a lot recently. He was on that cut line
really with that with nothing to do for a while,
and it seemed like Dodoby just did not know what
to do with them, and you guys kind of tapped
into what he could bring, like he said at the
very beginning, when you saw him tough enough, like you said,

(01:27:12):
he had that in factor, just they didn't know how
to exploit that and make a character that was marketable
out of that.

Speaker 16 (01:27:19):
And so yeah, that character's him, which is exactly what
all this stuff is. And that's why I think to
a point he's been a little bit more successful than Morrison,
because that's whom his is, you know what I mean,
Like that is his person. It's just him turned up
a little bit, and that's why I always liked him
about that.

Speaker 2 (01:27:36):
Yeah, you mentioned that, and you also mentioned it sort
of that Morrison. Perhaps Morrison isn't being himself or maybe
he's trying to be. Do you think they're kind of
forcing this baby face role for him and he's not
just it's just not a natural fit for him. Is
there something else they could do with them as a
baby facer or how do you view Morrison right now?

Speaker 17 (01:27:55):
And wrong?

Speaker 2 (01:27:55):
I think he just needs time.

Speaker 16 (01:27:57):
Like the thing he did with with Jericho this week
was really great, you know what I mean, that little
promo and you know, and I don't know.

Speaker 17 (01:28:04):
Where they're going, but it seems like.

Speaker 16 (01:28:05):
If Jericho is out of if Jericho's out of the
title matches at the pay per view, it'd be great
to have more with Morrison. Do the same stipulation of like,
well if I can't beat you, I gotta leave, and
you know, helped Morrison get over because remember it was
it was Jericho who turned Morrison baby face on on
a weird pre tape on a raw or a SmackDown
you know, way back when, and all that stuff when

(01:28:27):
they need baby faces.

Speaker 17 (01:28:28):
So I just think They're gonna.

Speaker 16 (01:28:29):
Give John his time and let him be himself, kind
of like he was the heel when he was getting
over it. Just it seems like he hasn't got a
lot of interview times since he's been on RAW.

Speaker 2 (01:28:38):
Yeah, and that backstage bit with with Jericho, I mean
I think he had about ten words or so, but
it was such an effective little promo that was pretty memorable,
and having that good match with Jericho. It's just sort
of a reversal where it felt like he was on
a slide, on the downward slide. So, like you said,
I hope they give him a little bit more to
kind of chew on going forward.

Speaker 23 (01:29:06):
Are you a fan of AW looking to sit back,
relax and listen to some like minded podcasters who share
your passion.

Speaker 24 (01:29:13):
Do you want to be topped off the ledge after
a segment that has you wondering what the heck are
they thinking?

Speaker 23 (01:29:18):
Do you want to join a discussion on what AW
is doing right and what they could do to improve?
Then join me, Joel and me Greg for.

Speaker 24 (01:29:25):
The All of THEE Conversation Club every Friday on the
PW Torch live cast feed, search PW Torch in your
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stream our shows directly from pw torch dot com. Find
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dot com.

Speaker 2 (01:29:52):
Good discussion. Then we're gonna go to and grab some
some phone calls. You're on the you'll be on the
live cast today with myself to editor James Caldwell and
Ring of Honor, Jack of All Trades, former w W
writer Dave Ocana. And let's go and jump to our
first phone call today. This is from the two eight one,
Eric Kotable. This is Jay and Houston. Jay, if you're

(01:30:13):
on the air, let us know what you have for us.

Speaker 4 (01:30:14):
Said, Yes, how you doing, James?

Speaker 8 (01:30:17):
Dave?

Speaker 2 (01:30:18):
Very good? What's up today?

Speaker 10 (01:30:21):
All right, I got a few questions today.

Speaker 8 (01:30:23):
No, I'm excited about this one ring Evanna.

Speaker 11 (01:30:27):
Okay, okay.

Speaker 10 (01:30:29):
My question to you, Dave is, how is if we
as ring a ban of fans.

Speaker 5 (01:30:34):
Really flocked to support you all.

Speaker 10 (01:30:35):
Can you first off, can you promise us that you
won't bring in Hogan, Nash Russo, Kevin any enemies of wrestling.

Speaker 16 (01:30:46):
I'll trust me they're far richer that they're far richer
than they would ever need to come here. But yeah,
but gee, Dave, if it's the right story, I'd love
anybody to come here. It's just it seems like a
lot of the older guys now just want to you know,
do their thing and not really help out and build,
you know, the next generation. You know what, where is

(01:31:07):
wrestling to be in twenty ten and beyond. It's kind
of where at least we're looking.

Speaker 2 (01:31:11):
For right now.

Speaker 10 (01:31:12):
So and I totally agree with that, And that brings
me to my next point.

Speaker 11 (01:31:19):
How can ring Ivana stop.

Speaker 8 (01:31:21):
TNA and WW from cherry picking that's hot talent and
jobbing them out to like undertake her and Helsley and
Sena And what can we do to help you all
well to the next level besides minding the paper views
and word of mouth, because I'm trying to get the
word out there because I really like what you're ever doing.
I really like Daviditches. I'm glad that Daniels is getting

(01:31:43):
his chance to shine, and I'm just excited, Thank you.

Speaker 16 (01:31:48):
We really appreciate that our president carry soaking really loves
hearing stuff like that, and he you know, he wants
to hear us feedback. And if you don't like something
we're doing, please tell us. You know what I mean, like,
we want to be the promotion that you know, as
small as we are, you know that that that was
trying to use a product that you can enjoy as

(01:32:08):
far as uh. You know, we now have contracts in
place that that run anywhere between six months in a
year with guys just like have you seen in the
last two weeks? Uh, you know that we've resigned the
Kings of Wrestling, Eddie Edwards. You know, we're trying to
lock up the guys that we think, you know, we
want to build this company around and and you know

(01:32:29):
it's a shame about Tyler, but but it came down
to Tyler wanted to go. Tyler's had a dream. I
remember I had a discussion with him at WrestleMania time
and he asked me, all right, what do I have
to do? How what do I be to be, you know,
a WrestleMania main inventor and you know, get in that system.
And so we talked about it and I had personally
told him, I said, you need another year, you know,
you need another year before you can go in there

(01:32:51):
and really show your than look at the strate he's
hitting right now. As far as his promos, you give
him another year of that and what his value would be.

Speaker 17 (01:32:56):
But he came down to he had an offer from
t and A and in reality didn't he knew and
everyone told him if he.

Speaker 16 (01:33:04):
Went to TNA, he probably would never go to w W,
because I mean, if you look at anybody who goes
to TENA first, it's really hard for them to be
accepted in WW. So Tyler wanted to go, and he
made this.

Speaker 17 (01:33:15):
Decision, and now here he holds the Ring of Honor.

Speaker 16 (01:33:18):
World title, and you know, and you're feeling exactly what's
going to happen to Tyler when he goes there. That's
out of our control, but we hope, you know that
his and the guys that have left here and gone on,
like Punk and Danielson and low Key and everybody that's
gone there, their talent really shines through. And we're preparing
the next generation of pro wrestling here right now, and
if they're with us, great, But this Ring of Honor

(01:33:39):
is a lot like the original ec W, where we're
creating stars that will hopefully have long lasting impact in
the business. So you can say, as a fan, you
know what I saw him first. It all started here
in Ring of Honor. I was a fan of this
guy first, and it gives you bragging right.

Speaker 2 (01:33:53):
As a fan. Yeah, great points there, Dave, Dave, did
you have any as a follow up another question?

Speaker 8 (01:34:00):
Well, I was just gonna say I totally agree with
him about the whole creating stars.

Speaker 5 (01:34:03):
I mean, what would you.

Speaker 11 (01:34:04):
All deal with and then we deal with?

Speaker 22 (01:34:08):
I want to know what's your honest opinion on what
they've done with Joe in their creative directions? And is
Milankelevonnor going to be a small intent of production for
the for the the next ten years or do you
y'all see yourself going beyond what TNA is because the
way things was, you don't have too.

Speaker 1 (01:34:26):
Far to go.

Speaker 17 (01:34:27):
Well, I mean what we try to do?

Speaker 16 (01:34:29):
And I'm wasn't sure which count you asked about? Which
towns did you ask about?

Speaker 2 (01:34:32):
Again?

Speaker 16 (01:34:32):
I believe Joe Joe Joe's I mean, I remember I
hadn't I hadn't seen r Oh, I've seen a couple
of his matches in our wage when he went to TNA.
I mean, was there any character that was hotter than
SMO with Joe for that first year and if they
would have capitalized beyond that. I think it comes down
to that program with Kurt Angle is where he kind
of got derailed and really never got a chance to

(01:34:53):
get back on track. But you know, as far as
where we're going in the next two years, it's it's
step by step, you know. I mean, we don't try
to take big leaps, you know, the expanding and be
inter national TV markets, and then I run the Facebook
and the Twitter for the company. Kind of just trying
to do everything I can to get the word out.
And I always hear, God, you guys are going you're
getting on TV in France, What about my What about

(01:35:14):
my area here in the United States. But we're also
working on different cable companies, you know, like Comcasts were
supposed to be rolling out in Philadelphia and Portland and
Seattle and San Francisco and one other market I can't
remember now the top of my head. But we're it's
a slow rollout in the company. The size, if we
tried to grow too big, we would collapse upon ourselves.

(01:35:34):
And that's the thing that you know, the company has
been very smart about to survive, and an economy like this,
you want to survive and put on the best shows
possible and give everyone a product they're proud of that you,
James can go to your friend, Hey, check this DVD out. Hey,
you know, come with me to this show. When we
were in Richmond last week, we had guys that we
had guys that brought friends and they had loved the show.

Speaker 2 (01:35:57):
So yeah, yeah, it kind of I mean, I don't
know how much insight you have specifically into this, but
the partnership with ov W that was announced yesterday, Obviously
Jim Cornett has a long history of OVW. He's sort
of another sort of jack of all trades with with
Ring of Honor. How is that that partnership with ov W,
How is that do you think going to help Ring

(01:36:18):
of Honor? Kind of all you said on its steady
growth pace, how is that going to help out? I
think that'll help.

Speaker 16 (01:36:24):
As far as looking another talent to look at, Like,
you know, who knows what wealth of talents in Louisville
is not getting looked at by guys, and it's just
it's just another place for guys to work. And that's
kind of what w W and TNA needs is different
territories to look at guys and see talents get their
their their chance to learn different styles. And I think
that's what's great about ov W. That's you know, Jem's

(01:36:45):
own territory. And once we start doing TV and stuff
there in December, you know, it'll just it'll open up
a whole buzz of things. It's another market that that's
good to wrestling and has always been good to wrestling.

Speaker 2 (01:36:56):
Yeah, very much, so good call, Jay. We appreciate the
question there. Let's go ahead and grab another phone call.
This is from the nine to one oh area code.
No no, no. Welcome to the show. Please say training
where you're from? Hey?

Speaker 25 (01:37:09):
How you doing this?

Speaker 2 (01:37:10):
Hannimal? Hey Annibal? What's going on today?

Speaker 5 (01:37:13):
Everything's going okay?

Speaker 25 (01:37:14):
Right now?

Speaker 5 (01:37:15):
Okay, you haven't got a question to ask you? What
is about whole Cogan's condition condition or whatever?

Speaker 2 (01:37:19):
Well, it's trying to get though. Wow.

Speaker 5 (01:37:21):
Let you know that Rick Flair, you know he's take
low buffs, but you know, but Hogan got well, you know,
back issues and you know, leg issues, and Flair do
it to win more bumps.

Speaker 2 (01:37:34):
Compare the Hogans. That's interesting, Davi, do you want to
do you want to address that? First of why do
you think Hogan's a little bit more, I guess broken
down and then Rick Flair despite a I guess a
five year age difference on on the player side.

Speaker 16 (01:37:46):
I think everyone's different. Rick Flair was never a big
bodybuilder guy. You know, Hogan's body was worked out differently
than Flair's. You know, I'd say that, but I mean,
who knows the genetics, who knows what his muscle tissues? Like?
You know, it all depends as far as what you know,
what you and I James do to our bodies as
far different than each other, you know what I mean.
Like it it all depends on you know, what the

(01:38:08):
human body can take.

Speaker 2 (01:38:09):
So yeah, very much. So it's kind of a case
by case thing. Also, I think, I mean Hogan was
I mean he carried a lot of weight throughout his career.
I mean he was up over three hundred pounds during
his his top drawing days and that has a lot
of stress taking that doing that, I mean, I mean
the knocking him as always. He doesn't he doesn't rest,

(01:38:29):
but doesn't have a lot of moves on the move said,
but he dropped that leg and all that pressure cup
crashing on that big frame, that big body over and
over again. Three hundred days a year back when they
were running almost every day. That I mean, that adds up.
I mean, you know, Flair did his his share. I
mean he was working three hundred, as you said, three
hundred and sixty six days a year, you know, but

(01:38:49):
he wasn't carrying around all that weight like Hogan was
during his top his top drawing days. So like you said,
it's a case by case thing, different bodies, bodies, and
also I can just get a lot more weight, you know,
and that's just kind of taking a toll on him now,
you know, twenty years after his big run, so at
at least the end of his his first bigger run.

(01:39:10):
So Hamill was the kind of answer your question or
did you fall up on that?

Speaker 5 (01:39:15):
Okay, yes, yeah, I'm just staying there too, right there.
But also to okay, what was that to do with
the TNA TV title? You know, if you know yall
was booking at TNA right now, you know, would out
scrap that whole title and create a new TV title?

Speaker 2 (01:39:30):
Or how was that doing the TV title?

Speaker 17 (01:39:34):
Dave?

Speaker 2 (01:39:34):
It's currently around AJ styles waste. It's sort of a
manufactured title, hasn't beendependent. About a month they don't really
emphasize it, whereas Ring of Honor has a I think
a pretty strong program with Eddie Eddie Edwards as the
TV champion Ring of Honor. How would you book TNA
TV title situation with styles and is there a way

(01:39:55):
to salvage that and make it something marketable for TNA.

Speaker 16 (01:39:58):
Well, I think the issue came in and I remember
when EG changed the name of it. I mean that
titles had more gimmick changes than Eric Young. But yeah,
but he said only defended every week on TV. He's
not granted, he's a heel saying it, but if he
hasn't defended it every week, I mean the old school
one that aren't Anderson and Dusty Rogers to carry was
dependent on TV every week because he didn't want to

(01:40:19):
defend the other ones.

Speaker 2 (01:40:21):
I don't know.

Speaker 16 (01:40:21):
I think they have too many titles, you know, for
a two hour show. I mean, the Extavsion title should
kind of be the TV that's the titles defended every
week on TV. But you know, I think that that
title just keeps changing names and it doesn't have importance.
And I mean, people, really it's it'd be like coming
up with a new NFL Championship every year, like, okay,
this this is the world champions but these guys are

(01:40:43):
the second. It just weakens everything. And I mean they
haven't even had a world champion for how many weeks,
so I'm not sure what you would do with it.

Speaker 2 (01:40:51):
So yeah, I mean there, the Timmy of tedtal situation
is pretty much a mess and it has been for
a while. And now, like you said that the strip
Harbadi of the title, he's gonna come back before they
even finish the tournament. I mean, that's just that's just
kind of captures the whole issue right there. But yeah,
I mean, like you said, his styles is going to

(01:41:11):
have that belt. It needs to be a centerpiece of
his act. And he's been a centerpiece of what he
does each week of TV. And it's not it's it's
the ev twobe versus Fortune feud. It's whatever Tommy Dreamer
is doing.

Speaker 17 (01:41:22):
Uh, he should be on somebody. It should be on
somebody young.

Speaker 16 (01:41:24):
But you know what I mean, that's making himself with
it as opposed to I mean, should be in the
world title tournament. There's no reason that a guy that
talented shouldn't be, you know, wrestling for the world title.

Speaker 2 (01:41:34):
Yeah, exactly right. Yeah. Uh. Kind of on that same
subject of the TV title ed Eddie Edwards you mentioned
him he resigned, uh with the company that was announced
this week. I really like the development that you guys
have have built around him and just the ten minute
Hunt program on TV almost every week now, and the
way he's kind of gotten over on his own set aside,

(01:41:56):
and you know, there's still a tag team with David Richards,
but kind of on his own, he's branched out. Talk
about the development of Eddie and what kind of you
see from him that has really made him a pretty
much a standout character almost every week on TV.

Speaker 16 (01:42:09):
Yeah, it actually all started last.

Speaker 2 (01:42:11):
Year with Eddie.

Speaker 16 (01:42:12):
I mean, you know him and Davy as a team,
but everyone always was talking about Davy well that he
was Gloria by honor last year where Eddie had hurt
his elbow the night before and probably shouldn't have worked,
but he wanted to prove how tough a guy he
was and really kind of speak to the style and
how hard working everyone was by you know, working that match.

(01:42:33):
If anyone's seen that ladder war, I mean he saw
his arm wrapped and everything on that point. So he
came to Craving a TV champion. He thought he's the guy.

Speaker 17 (01:42:43):
You know, David didn't quote unquote need.

Speaker 16 (01:42:44):
It, and Eddie's really kind of stood on his own
and it was it was Davie who wanted to work
with him in that tournament and that was that was
what worked out great for them. So it really just
taking it.

Speaker 2 (01:42:54):
He's taking it from He's taking.

Speaker 16 (01:42:55):
It from there, and really, you know, the timid Hunts
at least allowed him to, you know, get a chance
to talk met his personality cross and there's a night
shift that comes in the TV shows in the next
few weeks where you'll see even the more different side
of Eddie Edwards that he kind of him and him
and Davy really kind of solidify themselves for the rest
of twenty ten.

Speaker 2 (01:43:14):
And watching that that final lead in show to the
pay per view last Monday, I just I liked the
way it was presented. It wasn't this sort of, you know,
sort of a three minute squash match. It was a
it was a thirty you know, thirty one thirty two
second squash match. He got the promo time. You got
to see him with the towel round his his shoulders,
I like the look. He's kind of upgraded to look

(01:43:34):
a little bit. He got in there, he got a
squash victory, he had a promo.

Speaker 5 (01:43:38):
I just I like that.

Speaker 2 (01:43:39):
It's very simple presentation that I think it is missing
from mainstream TV. He's just kind of getting a guy
out there and just spotlighting him and featuring him and
getting him over, not trying to have a sort of
a four minute filler TV match on raw that that
you know, nobody benefits from. And and that's one of
the things that I like about the presentation. There's a

(01:44:00):
good balance of you get a high quality ten to
fifteen minute match, maybe even two, featuring some top guys
ring up modern and you also get a match's usually
almost every week going to just showcase the guy, showcase
the cole Cabana and El Jenerico and Eddie Edwards. And
I like that balance. Uh is that kind of is
that part of the philosophy or is that just kind
of what happens up on the way your TV tapings go?

Speaker 16 (01:44:24):
Well, yeah, and our TV's put together differently, where like
T and A, they have to they have to get
everybody on every TV show when the no one gets over,
so we try to pick the guys. Each show is different,
each show has a main event, each show has you
know to rotated, and it makes produce well one, it
makes producing the TV show easier because on a you
know as we shoot six or six or eight of
them at a time. It makes getting those shows produced easier.

(01:44:45):
By knowing what you guy's gonna be focused on, we
can allocate the time. So Eddie's really been on that
slow burn kind of this year, letting you get used
to him as this character as opposed to flip flopping
a title and all that stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:45:00):
Thanks for downloading today's show. Take it to the next
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(01:45:20):
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Speaker 2 (01:45:39):
Let's go ahea and go back to the phone lines
right about the top of the hour. And if you
want to jump on the phone lines in the last
half hour, you can give us a call at six
four six seven two one nine eight eight. Again, this
is Torch Assistant editor James Caldwell hosting today alongside my
co host Ring of Honor writer producer Jackaball and trade
Dave Logana. And let's go to go back to the

(01:46:01):
nine three one area code nine three one. Welcome to
the show, please station and know where you're from.

Speaker 26 (01:46:06):
Hey, guys, to Dylan from Clarksville.

Speaker 2 (01:46:09):
I think that's your first name. What was it, Dylan,
Hey Dylan, let's go on to say, uh, nothing much, guys.

Speaker 26 (01:46:16):
I just wondered with Dave, you know, about the last
few years and stuff with the Riguo Rodo has had
a great relationship with Peer Wrestling Noah out of Japan,
and I was wondering what to like to work with
some of those guys Kent you know, catch you WARSI
by Maafuji.

Speaker 16 (01:46:31):
But uh, well, I know Kenta had gotten hurt interviews
coming back. It just comes down to scheduling and Jesus
and and all that stuff.

Speaker 17 (01:46:41):
And you know, especially now that we're.

Speaker 16 (01:46:42):
Doing TVs, you know, a lot of the TV time
is devoted to the guys who were here full time,
and and and we want to meet kent to and
anybody we bring in some overseas is kind of a
special attraction, especially when it comes to all this stuff. So,
I mean the fact that the shows have been good,
you know, and drawing the same without them, So when
we bring them in and hopefully they'll they'll attract even
them a wider audience and and and be a big

(01:47:02):
deal as opposed to well they're here all the time,
then they're.

Speaker 2 (01:47:04):
Not that special. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Uh.

Speaker 26 (01:47:09):
I was just wondering because I heard somewhere that currieus
Filkins said that the reason they weren't brought in as
much is because, like they rig about it themselves, had
to pay to get them to fly out. So is
there any chance somebody still know it could be coming back.

Speaker 16 (01:47:23):
Any type food. I don't know the hear workings of
all of that, but that seems about right. I'm not
sure what the deal is, but obviously, especially of the
right occasion or the right situation came up, then obviously
that I think we would do it.

Speaker 2 (01:47:38):
Yep, doing any.

Speaker 26 (01:47:39):
Other question or follow up, just one more thing about
when you were a w W and stuff, Well, what
was it like? Did you have any interactions with a
Triple H?

Speaker 2 (01:47:50):
What was that like?

Speaker 16 (01:47:53):
You know, I think the writers had a different interaction
time with with Triple H as far as you know,
we we traveled with him a lot more so we
kind of got to know him on a different level
than some people. Like I know, I would you know,
when we weren't talking. A hundred really likes old time wrestling,
so that was something that him and I would talk about,
you know, NWA nineteen eighties, or we would even talk.

Speaker 2 (01:48:13):
About tech stuff because he liked you know, I.

Speaker 16 (01:48:15):
Would always get to new whatever and he would always
want it to or he'd have it first and I'd
tested out for him. So everyone's relationship was different then,
you know than anybody else. But he would he would
travel with us, and you know on the plane, I
have helping about respect for him, and I think, you know,
as good a worker as he is now I think
he'll be even a bigger asset in the front office,

(01:48:37):
because once he stops working, he's one of the better
minds that that company has.

Speaker 2 (01:48:43):
It's kind of fascinating because I covered a Summer Slam
interview is about It was right before a SummerSlam this year,
and it kind of a you know, he did an
interview where I felt like he was already moving into
that executive role. He was kind of talking from him
almost a more of a management than a talent perspective.
And you kind of brought this up. What do you
think is his biggest strength in in front office in

(01:49:05):
a management and executive role? And I mean, obviously he's
kind of in line as the heir apparent to kind
of run the company with Stephanie. Well, what is his
biggest strength do you think as a mind for how
to present and market and promote for us?

Speaker 16 (01:49:21):
I mean, you know, he's done it all in that
in that business and that company, so I think he'll
be able to help guys. I mean, look at what
you know Seames has become. And again I wasn't there
to see that that development, but as far as you know,
you know, he will have guys. I do for guys,
and I know he gets the bad reps for putting
his stunt down on guys. And you know, I think

(01:49:41):
he's an honest guy. And sometimes guys don't want to
hear honestly, you know, evaluations. They just want to hear
how great they are. So, I mean, I think everyone
has a different opinion on him, but mine's as far
as you know, working with him on stuff and you know,
producing things. He wants to make things good, and you know,
he has his disagreement with events like everybody does. You know,
if something was ridiculous, he'd tell Vince and didn't matter

(01:50:04):
if Vince wanted to.

Speaker 5 (01:50:04):
Do it or not.

Speaker 16 (01:50:05):
That's it's got done. So I think I think he'll
be very successful and he's he'll be a very huge
asset to there. Well, all is Dephanie strengths. As far
as business, he'll basically you know, if he's in charge
of the wrestling, it'll be very good for that company.

Speaker 2 (01:50:20):
Let's let's go on and grab another phone call, Dylan.
We appreciate your call. Let's go to the nine seven
three area code nine seven three. Welcome to the show.
Please state you vaming where you're from.

Speaker 27 (01:50:31):
Yeah, Hi, this is a day from New Jersey day
to day.

Speaker 2 (01:50:34):
What's going on today?

Speaker 27 (01:50:36):
And I'm doing all right and joining the show as.

Speaker 2 (01:50:39):
Always, We appreciate it. What do you have for us
or specifically for day today, well specifically for day I
wanted to ask.

Speaker 27 (01:50:47):
Him, and I apologize if he already mentioned this or
if you guys have covered this. What does r OH like?
What is Roh's position as far as you know, athletes
coming to r O H and getting you know, getting
as far as they can get in r H and
then moving on to bigger companies like w W A

(01:51:09):
because you've got you know, plenty of people like C. M. Paul,
you got Matt siddel a, k Evan Born.

Speaker 2 (01:51:15):
How do they how do they really feel about that?

Speaker 27 (01:51:17):
Do they want to have them stay and do like
an AJ style and quote unquote build the house or
do they encourage them to go, you know, move on
to other companies.

Speaker 16 (01:51:28):
I mean it comes down to a financial decision, and
it's a decision we all make every day with any
job we hold. I mean, Ring of Honor is not
a full time job like Teenam, w W's not. It
all depends some people will take the chance. Uh you
know on the company and you know a lot of
guys work other promotions and make it a full time job.
I know, it depends on how you control your finances.

(01:51:50):
So guys like that, uh, you know, staying around but work.
We're content business. You know, we have aj styles for
six weeks or six shows, then we're you know, we're
building our legacy through that.

Speaker 17 (01:52:03):
But like you know, we never I mean, Tyler wanted
to go.

Speaker 16 (01:52:06):
You know, we made an offer to Tyler. He decided
to go. It's just it's the nature of the business.

Speaker 2 (01:52:10):
Uh.

Speaker 16 (01:52:11):
And he can't force anyone to stay, you know what
I mean. People want to you know, get what they can.
But people are getting to develop here, which is I
think the important part where they're not right now. I mean,
Tina has no developmental process, so when they want a
new character, they have to look through the outside. But
our contracts protect us for us. You know the amount
of time that we have guys and we know you
know how long we have them for us. I mean,

(01:52:32):
I think Carrie and everyone is involved in the company
has an okay feeling about our place in the business.
Right now. As we grow, we're hoping to be able
to keep guys longer. You know, we'd love to have
kept Tyler for another two years, but he wanted he
wanted to take a shot at the quote unquote big
times and greener pastures, So he's going to do that.

Speaker 2 (01:52:52):
They did you have any other question or follow up? Yeah?
One more question? Sure, And this can go to both
of you guys, how but I guess I guess more
deep because he's had ww experience.

Speaker 27 (01:53:05):
How do you feel about the unification of the titles
that's you know that's pending. How do you think it's
gonna affect WWE? And will it or will not have
any effect on ro Oh.

Speaker 17 (01:53:17):
Uh, Well, James, why don't you go first?

Speaker 16 (01:53:19):
Let'm be curious what you have to say.

Speaker 2 (01:53:21):
Yeah. To me, it's a thing. It comes down to
the brand split, and I'm in favor of keeping that
brand split strong. But I imagine that if you unify,
if you okay, if you unify the top title, you
could have that champe and and kind of go back
and forth. If you start unifying your intercontinental and US title,

(01:53:41):
that kind of is going to start watering down that
brand split. And I really do think they need to
keep that brand spot. It allows you to artificially move
talent without you know, you don't have a territory system.
You don't have another another major national promotion other than
TNA for a guy to go work and kind of
be off TV and come back rush. So I think
you've got to keep that brand spot as artificial and

(01:54:04):
as little as WW has protected it over you know
a period of time, especially lately. I really that's the
thing that comes down to for me is can they
maintain the brand split and maintain it at a strong
level and unify you know, so of your secondary titles.
And I just don't know if they can pull that off.
And you know, I like the idea of having one

(01:54:24):
champion sort of that undisputed champion, that he's the top guy,
we recognize him as the top guy, and then praps
having you know, a raw champion and the SmackDown champion
using whatever title you use. But the deal breaker for
me is is whether they maintained that brand split, and
I just I that's what kind of comes down to
for me. So what are your thoughts on that, Dave?

Speaker 16 (01:54:46):
It was the original plan, I mean was to have
one champion and actually they're I think even a raw
title was created. I don't remember exactly what happened, but
you know, the whole brock Lesnar sprint split back in
two thousand and two with the Garden, and when he
walked out with the title, it just split. And you know,
originally it was supposed to because they were gonna run

(01:55:06):
separate branded pay per views, but ever since they've combined
the pay per views back together, and John senas on
fourteen pay per views a year as opposed to I
think the year before he was on nine. You know,
you burn through attractions and the UFC model works.

Speaker 2 (01:55:22):
I'll just say that.

Speaker 16 (01:55:23):
So you know, they have their separate titles that main event,
different shows and all that stuff. I think WWE gives
away too much on his pay per views, honestly. I
mean our pay per views weekend, there's no Dab Richards,
you know, and yet people still aren't interested in buying
and intrigued, you know what I mean. You have to
protect your attractions, and I think that that's kind of
where it's got burnt out, is you know, all right,

(01:55:45):
make this Night of Champions, you know, a special pay
per view if you're gonna unify it, or you know,
have one big attraction that you know, you look forward
to in the next month, have a different one and
spend the TV time instead of pidling around doing whatever
they're doing, and build attractions I mean people interested. Yeah,
I think one one champion, one champions better.

Speaker 2 (01:56:04):
Though, to answered the question, Yeah, and you nailed a
lot of points that that we've talked about the live cast,
which is that UFC modo for pay per view where
you know brought Lesser is not gonna be on you know,
eight straight pay per views. It's just it just waters
down the value of seeing that guy, Like you said,
the attraction value it wanted, waters down the title when
it's not you know, well, when you see the title

(01:56:25):
defendant on TV and then every month on pay per view,
and especially when you when you hot shot title changes,
it just it waters down the value of that championship,
that that title match that you're gonna see two top
stars competing for a title. You know, as a pay
per view consumer, you're sitting there saying, well, I can
see that exact same thing on TV and TNA's case,
you can probably see the exact same match the next

(01:56:46):
the next Thursday, which we're gonna see next Thursday. So
you know that that exactly what you said, that model
of of not overexposing your top stars. I mean the
John Cena versus Rainy Orton routine last year on pay
per view. They overdid that, and they overdid Seed in
the main events. They overdid Orton in the main events,
and I just think it waters down their value. So yeah,

(01:57:08):
I definitely agree with you on those points that you've
got to protect your investments and when you overexpose them,
I mean, the audience is gonna say, well why should I?
I mean, look at this Monday. This Monday they have
braind new organ Just I just mentioned this is Ni
versus Orton on free TV right before a pay per view,
and to a consumer, I'm gonna say, well, well, why
am I going to spend money to order your pay
per view when I could probably see a better or

(01:57:29):
if not, it's not an equal a better match on
free TV. So what's your take on them kind of
giving away whether you want to say given away, or
featuring that match on free TV as one week of
hype behind it as the lead match for their pay
per view they had a champion's pay per view. What's
what's kind of your take on why they're doing that match,

(01:57:49):
and and you know, do you agree with it or not.

Speaker 16 (01:57:53):
They're doing it because Monday Night Football come back, and
they're always very worried about you know the thing. I mean,
if so they have Chadow Josinko is gonna guest host
raw I guess is it this Monday?

Speaker 2 (01:58:05):
Yeah, yeah, I didn't think about that, but yeah, that's
up against the first Monday Night football week. So yeah.

Speaker 16 (01:58:10):
It was kind of like they got actually a lot
of press last year when what his name was on
Ben Roethlisberger. They should have Ben Roethlisberger on now you know,
well he's definitely not PG I mean at all. But
you know what I mean, like that they're trying anything
to get attention on this show. The only thing I

(01:58:30):
wish they would have done was, instead of making the
match in the last two minutes, you know, build up
the whole show around it. I mean, Darren Young coming in,
Darren Young being the reason we're having Wharton versus seen
It next week is shouldn't be a reason. It should
be the match you haven't seen any year. It's a
much different match to me now, I mean, if you've
seen Randy Orton, that's how in the last.

Speaker 20 (01:58:48):
Six weeks you have to match.

Speaker 16 (01:58:50):
I'm interested and that that could be a potential WrestleMania
unification match. You know, if they do it now, I'm
fine with it because as I understand, a lot of
their business is done on TV. You know, I mean
they make half a million dollars a week in license
fees from USA, so they got to keep the numbers up.
That's why, because you know, if their numbers drop, and
that that's why I think to a point, they do

(01:59:10):
a lot of hot shots up on TV.

Speaker 17 (01:59:13):
Again, the pay per view could be worth more, but
you know, you do the mat fifty two times, you know,
a half a million.

Speaker 16 (01:59:18):
You see what they're getting paid per year by USA.

Speaker 2 (01:59:21):
Yeah, no, that's a good point. There definitely a good
insight on that. Definitely. It's interesting to me that you know,
Losa Singo is gonna be on on Raw up against
the first week of Monday night football. I didn't even
thought about that, but I guess I haven't tricked my
fantacy a football team today either, So I mean that's
a good reminder.

Speaker 16 (01:59:37):
Better because the first games for that's why there's no tea,
there's no teen A tonight because they're definitely afraid of
being killed by football.

Speaker 2 (01:59:47):
Yeah, which you know, it's uh, it's something to be
worried about. But I mean, then again, they're gonna up
against college football every week too. I mean, obviously it's
not the same level as at Monday night. I was
the first week of the NFL season between the two
NFC champion you know, the two teams in the NFC
Championship game. But yeah, I just I don't know, I
don't know if that was the right strategy for teenager,

(02:00:08):
you know, bumping up an hour and have that bigger
lead into football, you know, and market it that way.

Speaker 10 (02:00:12):
Too.

Speaker 2 (02:00:14):
Good call, David. We appreciate that.

Speaker 15 (02:00:21):
Longing for some nostalgia, or maybe you want to learn
some wrestling history, don't miss the Nineties Past cast every
Friday on the PW Torch Daily Cast Feed. Alex and
Patrick will transport you thirty years into the past by
taking you through the Torch issue from that very week.
Follow news from the WWF and WCW, and all the

(02:00:41):
happenings from across the wrestling industry in real time as
The Torch reported it thirty years ago. That's the Nineties
Pass cast every Friday on the PW Torch Daily Cast feed.

Speaker 2 (02:01:01):
Let's go and grab another phone call. Let's go to
the seven seven eight area code seven seven eight. Welcome
to the show. Please say you name, know where you're from. Hey,
this is Jason from Vancouver. Hey Jason, what's going on today?

Speaker 17 (02:01:15):
Not much?

Speaker 11 (02:01:16):
I want her to talk from t and A.

Speaker 2 (02:01:18):
I wants the pay per view on Sunday and.

Speaker 4 (02:01:21):
I want to talk about the knockouts match with Madison Rain.
I think she's okay the heel, but watching a velvet ruffle.
Don't get me wrong, She's a beautiful girl, but man,
she's she's not.

Speaker 2 (02:01:33):
A good ruffler at all.

Speaker 4 (02:01:34):
She's like watching like he's one of the girls that
actually ruffled like a girl.

Speaker 11 (02:01:38):
You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (02:01:41):
Yeah, Yeah, that's when I sent my report too. Is
I don't know why they've picked her to be in
that match on the pay per view. It's just I
wouldn't have picked her. And this kind of gets my
problem with the storyline is they have switched them back
and forth, you know, the Madison Rain and Tara and
the beautiful people. They've switched them heal and face I
think three times this year, and they kind of randomly

(02:02:02):
switched them on reaction right before the pay per view
when they revealed Terror on Impacts. So, Dave, what's kind
of your take on that matchup specifically as well as
just the overall Knockouts division in TNA.

Speaker 16 (02:02:17):
The Knockouts have been gutted since January. They used to
be the best part of the show. They used to
be what me and my roommate would actually watch the
show for because they were so entertaining, and the diversity
of the division has kind of been stripped apart. Velvet's
not the most polished worker, but kind of like Layla,
which I'm sure they both would enjoy the comparison. They

(02:02:38):
both are great characters and work really well with their partners,
So having a one on one match with Velvet, you know,
maybe he isn't the best use of her as a resource,
but her and Angelina being back together at least as
a win for me for TEENA because they were such
a great part of what the original TEENA Act was
that at least it was a win.

Speaker 2 (02:02:58):
But yeah, I don't.

Speaker 16 (02:03:00):
Understand the Tarraf thing, you know, her explanation as to
why she's now with what's her name there? It with
Madison Rain makes no sense, But yeah, I think the
division kind of has been really harmed. It's been the
greatest change in the last eight months. It really has
hurt that product, you know, because people there was an
audience sigma in the audience and one to tune every
week and their numbers are always higher than everybody else's.

(02:03:22):
So I'm not sure why the d emphasis of that division.

Speaker 2 (02:03:26):
I mean, awesome Calman, you mentioned at the beginning of
the year it was gutted and an awesome Kong is gone.
She was there at the beginning of the year ODB
is gone. I mean, you know, former Teenage writer dutch
Man tell he was instrumental in building up that division
and building that Kong feud with Gail Kim, and that
was such a very it's a memorable one of the
more memorable feuds that Teena has ever put together, because

(02:03:48):
it was it was it worked, and it was built
up well and it told a good story and they
just kind of lost a vision for how to present that.
And now it's sort of it almost feels like a
a lighter a Diva's light division, you know, it feels
like who's left or just sort of the type of
Diva you'nw TV programming.

Speaker 16 (02:04:10):
Even the w wadvas have. I mean, I defy you
to name anything memorable that the w W A divas
have done in the last three years. Name one storyline
that that's besides the Tame the Games, but before that
was you know, at least your storyline with that. There
hasn't been anything the women's wrestling right now. It seems
very underutilized. Like it was funny when when Aloisa went away,

(02:04:34):
you know, I thought, well, why wouldn't they go after
an amazing Kong you know what I mean to be
like the sixth person really kind of be a stand
down instead of just another girl that's liked the other five, uh,
you know for NXT and at least it's a girl
that can work and that Daniel Bryan Roll who can
go out there and have a good match with all
of them and they get an attraction out of it,
which was the original you know, use of Aloisa whatever

(02:04:57):
her name was.

Speaker 2 (02:04:58):
So yeah, that's what I thought too, that would be
a good attraction for a very different type of show.
You know, it's an all a diva's past, and and
like you said that, they brought in just another just
kind of a six women's wrestler that looked a lot
like the others and Aloisa. You know, they got her
over on the season finale when Michael Cole and Josh
Matthews talked about her throughout the end of season two

(02:05:20):
with that final show, and she was gonna be that
attraction to kind of see what she's gonna do and
uh and hopefully beyond that first week of seeing the
attraction and see more of what she's gonna be in
a weekly basis. So yeah, I you know, I don't
know why they went that rut of replacing her. It
was it was a trade down, you know, kind of
going with another similar style, similar type of women's wrestlers. So, Jason,

(02:05:43):
did you have another question or follow up on that?

Speaker 4 (02:05:47):
Yeah, I got one more thing that's definitely a good
I like days and alysis there about Velvet and Leila.
They're both they're not really good singles, but they're definitely
better characters than good Tag Team. That's a good analysis.
And one more thing I wanted to ask about t
and A is uh, the Taz is commentating and just
how frustrating it.

Speaker 2 (02:06:03):
Is sometimes listening to him because you know, half the.

Speaker 4 (02:06:05):
Time he'll be sitting there talking about you know, the moves,
the footing on the arm bar, good technical commentating, and
he's talking about the moves and how it affects the
mass and its proytelling and he's doing a great job.

Speaker 5 (02:06:16):
And then two minutes later he's talking about letting the
pigeons loose and some stupid craft.

Speaker 2 (02:06:20):
It's just like, what are you doing?

Speaker 25 (02:06:21):
Man?

Speaker 4 (02:06:21):
You know you're doing the good commentating that you're talking
about something stupid.

Speaker 16 (02:06:25):
Uh, that's Taza's style.

Speaker 5 (02:06:27):
You know.

Speaker 16 (02:06:27):
I worked with Taz for five years, especially you know
in commentating sense. You know, I was always there every
Wednesday when we were fixing.

Speaker 1 (02:06:35):
That's just who Taz it is.

Speaker 16 (02:06:37):
I don't know how he's produced there. I mean, if
you had to explain some of those stories that they do,
it's it's it's probably hard, but that's just who he is.
It's that wasn't that's what he is, you know what
I mean? Like, uh, I think if I think you
wouldn't notice it if the stories were goading.

Speaker 2 (02:06:51):
To understand, right, And part of it is is trying
to find that balance and Mike today because today can
be h give me some dry calling the moves as well,
so if you have two guy that's just kind of
calling it straight, then it doesn't really make for very
entertaining broadcast, at least at least played a T and
A Presents where you have to have something silly or

(02:07:11):
something funny or something or an attempt it's funny or
something controversial in every single segment. And uh, I mean, uh,
you know, the Tasa has grown. I think he's better
than when he started, when he was trying to find
his way working with today and working with some of
those stories that just just make no sense and you
just you would your natural reactions laugh at it.

Speaker 17 (02:07:32):
Uh, you know.

Speaker 2 (02:07:33):
And so Tat's trying to find his way. I think
he's doing a good job as the voice of the fan.
He's kind of developed that as part of his repertoire,
kind of questioning what's going on and and trying to
frame it away where he's not questioning the booking or
the writing. Yeah, I mean that there there are times
are there's gonna be Taz and he's just gonna something's
gonna make him laugh, and he's gonna he's gonna call
it in the air and straight.

Speaker 16 (02:07:56):
That's that's Taza's thing, is he's not gonna he's not
gonna make himself look dumb, you know what I mean,
Like he's gonna he's gonna call it as a guy
that's sitting at home, and that's his gimmick.

Speaker 2 (02:08:04):
So yeah, exactly, that's a good way of putting it.
Good call, Jason. We appreciate that. Let's go and grab
another phone call. Let's go to the seven eight six
area code seven eighty six. Welcome to the show. Please
say shodn't know where you're from.

Speaker 5 (02:08:17):
Hey, this is Shane from Victor Rolf.

Speaker 25 (02:08:20):
I'm down in Miami, Florida.

Speaker 2 (02:08:21):
Hey, Shannon, what's going on today?

Speaker 25 (02:08:24):
I'm good question for you, mister Legata. You know, I
I enjoy watching Ring of Honor.

Speaker 1 (02:08:31):
When I can.

Speaker 25 (02:08:32):
I I usually watch it on Thursday on YouTube and everything.
My only complaint, and it's the complaint that a couple
people that I talk with have about the show itself,
is the amount of squash matches that we'll see, you know,
in the first half of the show.

Speaker 16 (02:08:49):
M hm.

Speaker 25 (02:08:50):
You know, I just wanted to get your thought of that.
I get I guess you know, it's used to build
up a few or whatever. But my that's my only
complaint against the show is that I kind of get
tired of seeing you know, two squad matches the first
twenty minutes of the show and then we'll have a
great main event.

Speaker 16 (02:09:09):
Well we I mean, we try to make every show
a little different as far as what we do with it,
but those does matches usually meant to enhance or tell
a story and leave enough time. So if you have
every segment the same amount of time, this kind of
happened with W every segment seven minutes, then no one
gets over in a seven minute match, you kind of
look as a piece of the pie.

Speaker 17 (02:09:29):
If you have a smaller piece of the pie.

Speaker 16 (02:09:31):
That means the main event will get more time. So,
you know, I think there's a segment of the audience
that would love to see the Ring of Honor DBD
just presented on you know HTA every week. Well I
don't think that would be the right business move if
we were to present the same style of matches that
we're looking for you guys to buy. I think that's
just the same way what pay per view should be.

(02:09:51):
A pay per view quality match should only be on
television every once in a while be considered special. So
it's all balancing act. You know, it's not like we
I don't think we've ever had a show where we've
had four squash matches and were trying to give something
different and trying to get characters over, let alone looking
at well, we had two squash matches this week. We
should only have one next week.

Speaker 2 (02:10:09):
So and I like the squash matches, so I mean,
I'll defend it. Like like I said in earlier, I
liked the Eddie Edwards ten minute hunt where he's kind
of working on just getting his personality over, and I
think that's it's a good way to balance it to
where you just kind of get you get a different
presentation from segment to segment. It's not the same. It's

(02:10:30):
not the same ten minute match every time. And like
you said, Raw is notorious for those those matches where
it just feels like a filler match because it's the
same as the one before, the same as one before that,
with the same finish, you know, usually the same finish
or relatively similar finish. So I like the squash matches.
I'm a fan of squash matches. I think it, you know,

(02:10:52):
and I understand what you're saying, Shannon, that that Prahfts
you believe there's a little bit too much of that,
But I lean a little bit more toward what Dave's
saying that it helps make It helps you over a
story with the character and in the context of that match,
that situation, and I just think it helps distinguish the product.
I think it helps encourage you to see more of

(02:11:13):
this character and perhaps that, you know, encourage you to
buy a paper of view to see that. In a
feature match, you know, you see a guy squashing, you know,
you see Eddie Edwards and he's he's he's run through
so many guys, and you're like, Okay, I want to
see another very strong character kind of come up and
and challenge him and see if Eddie Edwards is really
built up like he like they make him out to
be Steevie's legit. Okay, well we're gonna make you pay

(02:11:34):
to see that. And I think that's kind of that's
kind of what the art of selling wrestling is is
building up that competition, building up those matchups that kind
of predicated on building that story ahead of time. And
I think that's a good method for using that squash match. So,
but I mean, you raise a good point, Shannon, do
you have another fall or any other question on that.

Speaker 25 (02:11:57):
Note on that just one other question yet again, I'm
from Miami. Do you happen to know if ring A
wanna at all planning to head down this way?

Speaker 23 (02:12:08):
Uh?

Speaker 16 (02:12:09):
And then that that get this question a lot. We'd
love to run everywhere, but you know, we have to
make sure that Like we just opened up Richmond and
we had about four hundred and fifty people in Richmond,
which is which was great because it's so showed that
there was interest in that market. Gave us place to grow.
We can't open too many markets at once because you know,
if we go to a market and it doesn't work,
especially are we're not on TV down there.

Speaker 2 (02:12:31):
Uh.

Speaker 16 (02:12:31):
You know, if we're not especially at the TV show
is not on there, it's going to be harder than
our regular established markets. Like unlike TEENA, which just runs
random markets all around, we try to run the same
markets and kind of build our base like let's say Philly, Chicago,
New York, Boston, now Louisville, uh, and all those other
towns that we've run, trying and build the base from there.

(02:12:53):
I mean, I know they ran Orlando for WrestleMania. But
it all depends on you know, the TV and places
that we think we can not only running great show
but also be successful day.

Speaker 2 (02:13:04):
We're gonna last three minutes or sto the show before
we get to a couple more callers try to squeeze in. Uh,
give the listeners a final plug for Saturday's internet pay
per view available on Go Fight Live dot TV. Uh,
just kind of you know what, what's the big attraction
for this month's pay per view? What do you think
is a selling point?

Speaker 16 (02:13:22):
Uh?

Speaker 2 (02:13:23):
And just you know, give a listeners some color around
why do you think they should order this pay per view? Sure?

Speaker 16 (02:13:27):
Uh, you know we have the three the triple main events,
the idea of you know Tyler Black, who is now
you know signed to he signed a WWE. You know
will he will he lead with the title or will
Roderick Strong take it? And you know what's the next
chapter of that story You've got you know Has and
Benjamin who have quote unquote nothing to prove, but yet
they're walking into a new environment to take on the

(02:13:50):
the quote unquote world's greatest tag team right now on
the Kings of Wrestling and and a blood feud with
with Thebana engine Erico versus Steen Krino, And there's heet
to be one of our pay per views that has delivered.
You know, you pay X amount for the other pay
per views, and yet more people are looking forward to
our shows. And I think that's that's kind of our
our argummick right now. And if you want to tune

(02:14:11):
in and check it out, you won't be disappointed.

Speaker 2 (02:14:14):
Very good. Let's go and grab one final phone call today.
Let's go to the eight three to zero area code
eight three Oh, welcome to the show. Please say to
name and where you're from. This is that Jackson, Texas. Hey,
what do you have for us? Real quick? About thirty seconds?
When is Caval, Joe Hennon and all the other Season
two rookies going to debut on the main roster. That's

(02:14:37):
a very good question. I know Kaval will be on
on SmackDown this Friday. He'll be debate debuting on that show.
He'll be in a matchup. Believe again, Drew McIntyre if
I remember correctly, so, Dave Quick ten seconds, what do
you think they're gonna do with the Season two rookies.

Speaker 16 (02:14:53):
I just hope they don't come All's size will always
be his issue there, but I hope he gets a
chance to get over kind of like Ray did two
and two.

Speaker 2 (02:15:02):
We'll talk more about that on the after show. Thanks
everyone for listening today and join us on Friday.

Speaker 11 (02:15:08):
Thank you for using blog talk radio.

Speaker 5 (02:15:11):
Goodbye.

Speaker 1 (02:15:18):
You don't have to wait for the way Keller Pro
Wrestling post show to find out what I thought of
Monday Night Raw and SmackDown. Each week, you can check
out my reports that are updated live throughout Raw and
SmackDown at pwtorch dot com. My written report will tell
you what's happening in detail in case you missed the show,
and it will also analyze key segments and give my
random thoughts en quips on what I am watching as

(02:15:40):
it airs. So check it out every Monday night and
Tuesday night at pewtorch dot com. That also applies to
WWE pay perviews. I cover those live at pw torch
dot com with a detailed written report with star ratings,
and of course you can find other TV reports from
other contributors to pw torch such as nxt roh, Impact
Wrestling and more. Check out out pw torch dot com

(02:16:01):
your first stop for TV and pay per View written reports.

Speaker 2 (02:16:14):
All right, Dave, we're now in the VP after so
portion of this the show. I appreciate you coming on
today and talking to the Ring of Honor W and
T and a good discussion. We'll kind of talk a
little bit more about some of the subjects, kind of
expand on what you're talking about the end about Kaval
and what you think is gonna happen with the Season
two rookies, I wrote, I just don't have a theory.

(02:16:35):
I don't know what they're gonna do with those group
of guys, the Hennings, look at Cannons and the Percy Watson's.
What's kind of your thoughts on how they're gonna feature
Kaval and what do you think they're gonna do with
the Season two rookies.

Speaker 16 (02:16:49):
I mean, I don't think they have a lot of
plans for uh for all, because you know, they here
he got his butt kicked at the end of his
NXP thing. Then he just shows up on SmackDown and
it starts working matches and it's not like, you know,
it doesn't really help his character. If anything, they should
have brought, you know, a couple of those NXT guys
in put you know, kaval over them to show why

(02:17:11):
he did win, as opposed to presenting him as just
I think he I think he loses the Drew McIntyre
starting to give a spoiler, but you know what I mean, Like,
did you immediately all the people who voted for this
guy and liked him and his ground small support go, oh, well,
he's not gonna make WWE, which maybe is their issue.

Speaker 2 (02:17:26):
So, and this is something that we've talked about this
week in the live cast. Is Brian Danielson and Cabal
and where their position and which one you think has
I guess more potential to be a bigger star for
when those two guys both have gone throughing a minor
you know, both have been on WTV for a limited

(02:17:48):
amount of time. Which one do you think is positioned
better right now to be a long term star for WWE.

Speaker 16 (02:17:57):
I think Brian, but I don't know they think they're
kind of even because they both have different intangibles. Where
low key as a I think, a more definable look
and a different moves. Tip of Brian's skill is being
able to work with anybody. So I've never saw I've
never seen Brian, you know, I never seen Brian have
a bad match with anybody. So yeah, it's it's it's

(02:18:20):
two different it's super animals to hard to judge him
on the same in the same qualities.

Speaker 2 (02:18:25):
So yeah, A couple of other subjects will touch on
today before we wrap up, Uh, the Ring of on
our booking change, and I want to get your thoughts
on this with Adam Pierce out Delirious in Pierce was
there for about a year and a half and I've
seen him work for a while with the n w
A back in you know, when I was covering Rustling

(02:18:45):
in California. Uh, hung around the kind of the w
A scene for a while. Got got to know Pierce
a little bit from you know, just kind of watching
him interact backstage, Uh, sort of taking a leadership role.
He got that opportunity to Ring of Honor. Now he's
now just delirious says the head writer, sorry, the head
booker in that promotion. Well, what's your take on what
what Peers brought to the table Ring of Honor and

(02:19:07):
what are some of your thoughts on on the change
to Delirious.

Speaker 16 (02:19:12):
I think it was the decision that Carrie wanted to
make at the time. And you know, Adam Adam's oil
and water is true. He you know, didn't get along
with the two people, and it kind of you know,
led to carry being forced to make a decision. With
that being said, Hunter is great. He's got a lot
of great ideas. He takes it very passionately. He's he's
he's a totally different personality than Adam. And I think,

(02:19:33):
you know, change is good sometimes, you know, to help
take things to a different level. Is at a better level?
I'm not sure, but we're going to find out over
the next few months.

Speaker 2 (02:19:43):
You said they're kind of different personalities. Is that sort
of the way they approach booking or is it how
they approach kind of interacting with talent.

Speaker 16 (02:19:51):
Or interacting with directing with talent and office? I think
is kind of the way it is.

Speaker 2 (02:19:57):
You know.

Speaker 16 (02:19:57):
It's also it was better for the office for Hunter
to be, you know, in that position because he lives
in Philadelphia. Uh, you know what I mean, Adam lives
in San Diego. It's you know, communication is different on
the phone and an email and running a company. You know,
you want you want to feel like everyone's a team,
and you know, my job is TV is kind of
separate from the overall every day running in the company,

(02:20:18):
So like, I don't know a lot of stuff that
was on with the company, but it don't need to
because I just have to make sure the.

Speaker 17 (02:20:22):
TV is right.

Speaker 16 (02:20:23):
So it all depends, you know, And it came down
to Terry's decision and whatever. It's his money, you know
what I mean. I think it comes down to you know,
that's when everyone gives Vince a lot of crap, Well
why does he do this, Well, it's his check. Until
it's your paycheck and towards you, your money being spent,
it's really hard to criticize the person spending it.

Speaker 2 (02:20:38):
So yeah, and that's that's kind of you know, watching
NXT season three in that premiere, I just I thought, Wow,
I can't believe they're investing, you know, thirty minutes of
TV time into this. And I guess, you know, like
you said, it's Vince's check, and then I would spend
it a little bit differently, but you know, I guess
that's just that's how he feels like he wants to

(02:21:00):
use that TV time is to kind of have that
type of show, which I wouldn't I wouldn't do. What
are two other subjects on Ring of Honor working with
Jim Cornett, what what is that? What has that experience
been like and what do you think he brings to
Ring of Honor in terms of, you know, having a
mind for wrestling and a mind for television production. What's

(02:21:23):
it been like working with him so far?

Speaker 16 (02:21:26):
Jim's just a great resource, and I mean the amount
of logic that he adds to everything. I mean, you
can go back and look at I mean the nosedive
spiral of TENA from October, you know, has a lot
to do.

Speaker 17 (02:21:38):
When Jim left, Jim Jim would be.

Speaker 16 (02:21:40):
There to make stuff look as good as possible, and
I don't think they ever replaced that amount of logic.
You know, I don't know who is in charge of
putting much matches together there, but you know Jim, Jim
will say, well that doesn't make any sense that that
exposes this, exposes that. And that's where Jim kind of
really you know, helps helps the guys and also it
gives an amazing amount of confidence to them because Jim's

(02:22:02):
done it all. He started his own hearted two different
promotions and been successful on on a regional level. He's
worked for tn A and w w E. He's worked
in w CW. He's one of the most successful money
drawing managers has ever been. You know, how can you
not respect everything he does and want to be around
him and learn from him? You know what I mean?

(02:22:22):
Like I claim to be no genius. You know, I'll
ask Jim what about this? No, that's stupid. Okay, I'm
not gonna argue with him because he's He's right nine
times out of ten.

Speaker 2 (02:22:33):
That's something I'm sure he phrased a little bit differently too,
addressing that that's a fascinating look. And yeah, I mean,
like you said about TNA, I think the removal of
Dutch and Jared and lost the time. You know, Jared
had had his weaknesses as a booker, but when they
when they had Dutch and Jared's and in correthe I

(02:22:55):
never really got a sense. I never really have ever
had a sense that TNA has a vision Craper's in
a product. But at least with them in place, they
were able to kind of counteract a lot of Russo's
well maybe not just Russo specifically, but that whole te
and a creative team and kind of work with them
to kind of cover some of those logic holes where
the show would at least be somewhat bearable. So when

(02:23:17):
you bring Corded into a situation where you know, guys
want to put together some some some good matches, there's
an emphasis on wrestling. There's emphasis on you know, why
this match is occurring, why this character is this way,
what is this guy's personality. It creates a sense of
logic and a flow and something you can really buy into.

(02:23:38):
And I think that's gonna be kind of been the
strength of the product is just you know, there's a
sense that there's some there's a purpose, the direction of
vision for the product. And that was short and I
mean that's been the case from the beginning when I
first reviewed the shows, you know, first launch launched on
ht net, and there was that sort of progression of
each TV show, you know, kind of in a set

(02:23:59):
of sins was a progression almost who told like a
mini pay per view at the end of that next episode.
Is that still kind of part of your philosophy and
your mindset is a kind of you know, build toward
a bigger TV show that perhaps the week before or
is that you guys are looking for more of a
steady production. I'm sorry, A study of presentation of that product.

Speaker 16 (02:24:23):
I think each week is kind of a different chapter.
We try to tell different We never really tell the
same story back to back weeks unless it's unless it's
certain things, and and then we mentioned the format every week,
so like like for example, you know, the Delirious story
gets told over back to back weeks and then in
the next two TV shows, one because they necessitated finishing

(02:24:44):
the story and two because of you know, the antics
in one show immediately called for the need for a
second you know what I mean, Like it all depends,
but like like two weeks after that, it's the King's
of Wrestling story, two weeks after that as a Rodert
Strong story. And that's trying to we try to, like
the big main events, try and spotlight talents and stories
and we progress them there and then move them on

(02:25:06):
and then just kind of pepper in everybody else and
keep them you know, warm, hate them up and everything
like that.

Speaker 2 (02:25:12):
So gotcha, No, yeah, I appreciate that insight. Uh, Dave,
I really appreciate you coming on and joining me on
a live cast today and good to get your thoughts
on the Ring of Mind or pay per view on Saturday,
as well as some experiences in WWE's some unique insight
into Triple h Uh. That was a good story and
a good uh uh, some good points on Triple H's

(02:25:34):
strengths with that promotion to more of a formal official
executive role. So appreciate you bringing that perspective on the show.
Any any final thoughts on the ring, amount of product,
or anything else for the Saturday's pay per view before
we sign on.

Speaker 16 (02:25:48):
Yeah, I think, you know, I wanted to, you know,
talk to your audience because if you like, you know,
any anybody who's never tried the product should try it,
especially this weekend, you know what I mean with all
the different stories and you know, everything it's planned, and
every show has had something special on it and everything
that you know, people have talked about.

Speaker 17 (02:26:04):
You know, the last show had you know, what people called.

Speaker 16 (02:26:07):
The match of the Year with with Tyler and with
Tyler and Davy, and then before it was that, it
was this surprize of Christaniels showing up, and then the
first one was our first one, and you know, every
show has had something special on it, and this one,
I think it's got a lot of special stuff that
you're gonna want to see live and I think that's
kind of was always the hiccup in the DVD model,

(02:26:29):
and even when the company was doing regular pay per
views was God, I wish I could be there a
and see. I wish I could watch it live. I
don't even know what these so I skipped over big.
So it's just I think that's what the product is.
And you know, you get a chance to check it out,
you know, And and our margins are so low that
you know, we were able to do it like this,
and you know, we attract the audience we do, and

(02:26:50):
I think every show we've grown, and you know, we're
anticipating hopefully our our best yet and that's that's where
we're looking to go.

Speaker 17 (02:26:57):
You know, I know we'll be.

Speaker 16 (02:26:58):
Watching and everybody.

Speaker 2 (02:26:59):
Will be che checking. Yeah, definitely, we'll definitely have live
coverage on Saturday night with our reports covering that pay
per view. What is your rolegot? Are you going to
be producing the show?

Speaker 16 (02:27:11):
And I'm under Yeah, there's no truck. It's a table
with a laptop. It's very very unique set up. Yeah,
it works though, and it's you know, it's you know,
a truck cost fifty grand, a playing costs one hundred
grand you know what I mean, Like to get on
pay per view is very expensive. So you know, for
this company to find a very inexpensive way to get
through product out to a worldwide basis without having to

(02:27:34):
do the you know, the hurdles that regular pay per
view does, you know, gives them a little chance to
kind of get their feet wet in the market. But
I'll be directing it. The three camera shoots really easy,
so if the guys do their work and make sure
I don't miss anything, So say I everybody missing anything,
you can feel free to blame me.

Speaker 2 (02:27:50):
So I definitely think the production value has increased as
you guys have kind of worked with Go Fight Live
and figured out the live pay per view model. I mean,
the progress was definitely all evident on the third pay
per view was with Davey versus Tyler. Uh. I think
the production value is right up there.

Speaker 22 (02:28:10):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (02:28:10):
I think ideally on what you guys want to present
for what you're capable of. As far as production value goes,
the improvement is definitely there from that first pay per
view when you guys are just kind of struggling to
get you know, get the sound the sound right, you know,
So I think that third pay per view a couple
of months ago was really strong in production value, So
that that's I mean, that's that was my my worry

(02:28:32):
and my concern early on, but I think that's kind
of been eliminated by what I saw in that third
pay per view and two months ago.

Speaker 16 (02:28:39):
Yeah, and we're hoping, we're hoping this one's equal or better,
and you know, it's it's all there's there's no fireworks,
there's no there's no monkeys running at anything. It's just
as the wrestling show with an eating food ring, you know,
with guys who have personal issues that want to fight.
And I think that's kind of the process that we
grew up with, So why not why not use that
as what? You know, people tune in and it's fourteen

(02:29:02):
ninety five. I mean, it's literally the price of a
movie for one person nowadays. I remember movies for six bucks,
and you know it's it's it's actually cheaper to watch
it on television than the go you was, you know,
but you couldn't go because the tickets are sold out.
Although there's a limited amount of tickets, it'll be the
made available at the door. Uh, you know, as far
as general admission, but it'll be the can't miss show.

(02:29:25):
And you know, I just think, if we're gonna do
all this for now, what could possibly be in the
in store for Final Battle?

Speaker 5 (02:29:31):
And what do we have?

Speaker 16 (02:29:32):
What do we have in our sleeve that you don't
even know yet?

Speaker 2 (02:29:35):
So yeah, I'm looking forward a Final Battle. And you
guys kind of hinted of that with the ring of
minor video wire with Davey Richards opening that, and well
you kind of talked about, you know, you don't have
to baby on the pay per view, but you still
kind of drew attention to him with that video wire
and it kind of kept him in the conversation without
having a water come down at attraction for your pay

(02:29:57):
per view model. So yeah, I mean that David Richard's
story you talked a lot about story today and and
that that Davy story for Final Battle is gonna be
pretty compelling. Um hm, you know what are we not
in September a couple of three months from now, and
then you guys have a lot of time to kind
of marinate that story. So they're there.

Speaker 16 (02:30:15):
They are twisting turns with that story that are are
our germane and will make sense and you know, it's
it's it's you know, when he when he gave that interview,
that's how he felt. And you know what I mean,
like this, you can't you can't just you can't say, well,
don't do it. I mean, it's it's his decision. And
that's the difference, is you know what I mean a
lot of these stories come from the guys and and
they're real. And Davis Davy was at a point in

(02:30:37):
his life that you know, he had a he made
a decision, you know, and and as much as anyone
tried to talk him out of it, nobody in that office,
you know, can can talk him out of it. So
it's it's, you know it. It'll take a higher power
who knows, you know, to to to change them on.

Speaker 2 (02:30:51):
David Richards, Yep, there you go, David. Appreciate you joined
me on the wet Cast today. Very good, uh good
to have you on, and we'll certainly look forward to
covering the Ring of Hunter pay per view on Saturday
and again through Go Fight Live dot TV. So Dave
and we appreciate your time today.

Speaker 16 (02:31:11):
Thanks. Jason.

Speaker 2 (02:31:12):
All right, that is davelgonnerd Ring of Honor, Jack of
All Trades, and this is Torchs assistant editor James Caldwell
signing off for today.

Speaker 1 (02:31:37):
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Speaker 28 (02:32:00):
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(02:32:22):
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