15 YRS AGO LIVECASTS: History of hazing in WWE, ECW segment with Dixie Carter on Impact, McMahon seemingly disconnected from reality, more

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 2 (01:05):
Now, PW Torch and Speaker bring you the Wade Keller
Pro Wrestling Podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:15):
On today's Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast, we jump back
fifteen years to two of our PW Borch daily casts.
First Up is the July twenty third, twenty ten episode,
where I hosted with Bruce Mitchell and we took live
calls for an hour, mostly reacting to the previous night's
edition of T and A Impact and the ECW segment
with Dixie Carter. At the end of the show, we
also talked about RAW and other current events, and then
in the previously VP exclusive after show, we talked about

(01:37):
a few more items from Impact not covered during the
one hour live cast. Then on the July twenty six
to twenty ten episode, James Caldwell hosted PW Torchis as
an editor and Bruce was back. They discussed b's build
to SummerSlam, including the Nexus versus Team Sena and if
it looked like a lopsided matchup. Also Vincic Mahn's interview,
McMahon seemingly Disconnected from Reality, the history of McMahon put

(01:59):
into a corner to make changes, his comments on Chris
Benoit and more, Plus NXT Season two Rookies, Dolph Ziggler,
the history of hazing and WWE TNA topics on the
ECW theme pay per view, mckfuley, stock dropping, and the
latest on Paul Hayman again The shows aired fifteen years
ago on July twenty third and July twenty six, twenty ten,
and it is today's wayde Keller Progressing Podcast fifteen years

(02:20):
ago flashback for Monday, August fourth, twenty twenty five.

Speaker 3 (02:26):
Welcome to PW Torch lave Test. I am host Wade Keller,
editor and publisher of the Pro Wrestling Torch newsletter and
PW torch dot Com. I'm joined today Special Friday. It's
like old times. Bruce Bruce Mitchell, senior columnist with prog
Wrestling Torch. How you doing, Bruce?

Speaker 4 (02:40):
Doing good? Do good good.

Speaker 3 (02:42):
I'm lucky to be alive. I almost got run over
by a cop car on a on a pedestrian path
crossing a street. There was like the signage said stopped
for pedestrians, and there was a car in the right
lane that had stopped, and I started crossing and a
copcar zipped right past me in the left lane and
almost hit my front tires. When I'm done with today's report,
I'll be filing a report on the Minneapolis Police Department.

(03:04):
So anyway, so I'm lucky to be here. And I
was leading the way. There was a twelve year old
girl behind me with her family, and I mean it
was I'm still upset about it. So that's why I'm
a minute late here. I am just getting in the
door from that. So that's my adventure today.

Speaker 4 (03:19):
The Lee streets of Indianapolis.

Speaker 3 (03:21):
I know, I know, No, I was, I was. I
meane you would cop should be given out tickets to
people who zoom zoomed through bike pedestrian pathways, not not
almost killing people. All right, So last night's show is
what we're going to be talking about here. Thumbs up,
thumbs down on week two of the ECW Invasion Angleberuth.

Speaker 4 (03:41):
You know, I'm just religious in hearing what people have
to say about this, particularly people who liked it. What
was it that they liked? No, it's a it's a
major song style.

Speaker 3 (03:51):
Yeah, I'm with you.

Speaker 4 (03:52):
I'm not happy, you know. I'm just not a big
fan of watching television where the audience, where the people
that are performing foreman for people other than the audience,
and they're selfishly just hockey their time in mic front
time and not you know, the other thing's just not
telling the truth. I never thought i'd see a day
where I was actually sympathetic to the physic man by

(04:12):
the time that finished. Particularly in how Tommy Dreamer trust
to trade him, I just thought that was that.

Speaker 3 (04:19):
Was what you mean. Explain what you mean by Tommy
the Dreamer of be trade Vince.

Speaker 4 (04:23):
McMahon, Well, how he portrayed him, not although I guess
he did a little bit. I kind of thought he
stabbed it in the back room, because you know, Tommy
Dreamer worked for them for nine years, got an opportunity
to work in the office, got to wrestle for a
long time, was not treated you know, they weren't always
the biggest fans of his, but they they didn't treat
him with with with anything but respect. I mean they

(04:46):
let him wrestle, and he kept this job long after that,
and they made they let him kind of keep the
spirit of ECW with that. When it came time for
him to lead the promotion, he got a last match.
He got to wave by the fancy of the ash
Jata Rum as you see them be championed. Right. But
you know, something that was not of delivery was not
on his resume during the time of the the reals

(05:08):
w and so I mean made good money, you didn't
do that. And they sit there and say they shouldn't
betray everything that you know, that that his dream was
killed and they fired his friends, Well yeah, they didn't
fires friends with friends to it, and draw they couldn't
work to the level what it was because because some
of them were good enough, others of them that were

(05:29):
good enough bodies have been damaged so for so long
doing that style of that.

Speaker 3 (05:34):
That's part of I got two or three talking points
for me. And and let me give the phone number
up for people, because if you if you do, if
you did like this angle, I mean, genuinely tell us
why we're not gonna ridicule you and tell you how
ridiculous it is that you liked it. I mean, we
really do want to hear if you watch that show
and genuinely found it, nostalgic or enjoyed it. The number
is six four six seven two eight. That's six four

(05:56):
six seven eight. A couple of things that bothered me. One,
they're celebrating a promotion and talking about it in these
glowing terms when if you look back at who's if
you look at who's standing in the ring, you know,
Raven would probably say he's lucky to be alive. Maybe
he even did in the interviews that I did with

(06:17):
him over the years, with what he went through and
the drugs that he took in that in ECW, and
there's a lot of people who can't be there. And
to me, if you're gonna do an ECW tribute, the
tribute is the way to I don't even know tribute
to the right word. I'm trying to search for the
right words. But you have to acknowledge without this oblivious

(06:39):
smile that was on dicktie Carter's face for that whole period,
what ECW stands for when you look at the actual
price paid by the talent and the attitude that they're celebrating.
And that's not to say there wouldn't have been a
way to do ECW the way Paul Hayman did it
and not have the excess amount of violence and the
drug culture and the pain pills. And yeah, they were

(07:01):
misfits to begin with, and some of them may not
have ever gotten, you know, their life together, whether ECW
existed or not. But that doesn't change the fact that
there's a long list of people who can't who aren't there,
who weren't Stanning in that ring, and some of who
were part of ECW, and some of them are dead,
and so I just think that that needed to be
acknowledged and if it should have been natural to acknowledge that,

(07:24):
and if it wasn't, then why not? And if if not?
In that answer to that is, maybe we shouldn't be
celebrating this era and talking about such golling firms. Number two,
what are they talking about? I mean, I thought that
about Kevin Ashen Jeff heare, but think about it, they
want to do it again.

Speaker 5 (07:39):
Well.

Speaker 3 (07:40):
ECW was about Carry Funk feuding with Saboo or Shane Douglass.
It was about the public enemy feuding that these people
weren't out there like it's like they're getting a softball
team back together, and they were all on a team.
They kicked each other's asses day after day, weekend after weekend,
year after year. The point a pro wrestling to me,

(08:01):
that's all that. Like, we're gonna get together for a
banquet or a Hall of Fame dinner. What are they
gonna do at this pay per view? We love each
other so much, now we're gonna kick each other's That's
how is that extreme? That you completely demean the point
of extreme wrestling when you say we love each other
so much, and we love theirs. We're gonna go and
we're gonna bloody each other up. Is how is that
extreme when you take away the idea that we're fighting

(08:23):
over something and we really dislike each other, And so
that whole thing is there's no hook in this storyline
that makes any sense from a draw standpoint. It's just
a nostalgia show. And if you're gonna do an oestalgia
show with a bunch of people like this, have a banquet,
have a little ceremony, pay respect to your dead friends,
and then and then acknowledge that maybe part of the

(08:44):
problem was the excess of violence, needless violence, the lack
of long term selling, and the lifestyle that maybe shouldn't
be celebrated, especially in the year twenty ten when most
of the audience doesn't even know what you're talking about.
So those are a couple rant points for me.

Speaker 4 (08:59):
Yeah, I mean, just it was. It really was. If
you want to see something what we talked about from
time to time, you know, working the money mark, that's
what that that whole show was. I mean, it was
just And I don't feel bad for Disty called her
because I think she's sometimes you see victims of concert,
because you know, the victim is greedy for something. It's

(09:20):
greedy for attention, it's greedy for fame, it's greedy for
to be told how great she's doing. And she doesn't
come across as that comfortable on the air, and I'm
not sure that she wants to be on the air,
although she seems to like it a little more every time.
And that's how it worked. And that but the scene
that was the classic example of it, where the person

(09:43):
who is they're spoken of and that this reverence, that
their legendary character, even though nothing in there, either off
the air character or off the air character, would make
you make you seek they deserved any kind of respect
like that, and that they that what they say does
and everybody looks to them. You know, what's what's that saying?
And then you know, you know that the nineties was

(10:04):
the nineties was about ECW the way you know the
eighties was about HALTAG and I mean that kind of
the growing inducing it's not a probile.

Speaker 3 (10:13):
Oh god, I hate that. Oh oh, this isn't a promo,
this is real. Well gee, thanks Dixie. I'm glad that
I shouldn't have paid any attention to the fake stuff
that preceded in the previous hour forty five minutes. What
goes through people's head when they think that, within the
context of a wrestling show, you're supposed to acknowledge that
everything else is fake, but this is real. How do
you expect to draw when you do that? And it's

(10:35):
you know, and for Us said this in his torch
Tark with Me a few years ago, and it's it's
taken to an extreme in this way where Eason, well,
everybody knows it's fake now, so we can't insult their
intelligence by pretending it's real. And I'm like, no, you're
insulting our ability to enjoy a show when you acknowledge,
within the context of that show that it's not real.
And the analogy is, you know, you think of any
TV show or movie that you like that has a

(10:55):
sports connotation to it. You don't want them in the
middle of the show to break script and go, oh,
we just want to like, you know, we don't think
that you think this is real. Don't take me out
of the mood and do that. Of course, I know
it's not real, but it's your job to make it
seem as real as possible for the one or two
hour window that I watch you.

Speaker 4 (11:09):
Yeah. And then then there's the thing. I don't know
that she knows, she doesn't understand that she's lying. But
I really have a big problem with Dixie saying that
she does the stuff for the fans and that she
listens to the fans, because she does not listen to fans.
I don't care how many people twit her or tweet her,
I don't care how many Facebook friends she has.

Speaker 6 (11:29):
As she responsive is she looked.

Speaker 4 (11:32):
The biggest voice of the fans that that comes there
is is the pay per view numbers and the rings.
The rays have not grown, They've gone down a little
bit there at this as.

Speaker 3 (11:45):
The budget's gone up exponentially. The ratings have been flat.
I mean, in edit, you look back a.

Speaker 4 (11:49):
Couple of years, I mean, and that one is at
that one point two or whatever whatever whatever that is
that they've been stuck at as is an embarrasslingly number
throughout the years that they've had. And then the payperw
numbers are just horrible. That's fans speaking up. That's fans
saying I don't want to I'd sampled your product and

(12:11):
I don't want to spend my time watching it, or
I watch your product, but I am not going to
spend money on it because of this, that and the
other reason. So to sit there and make that steak,
it's really you know what it is is I appreciate.
I thank the fans who tell me I'm doing a
good job when I do what I want to do,
when I keep the people I want to keep employed employed,

(12:31):
and when I do these things, and I and and
stand around me and tell me how great I am,
and and that's a whole different thing. So no, I mean,
I just that I am really curious. I think we
kind of poisoned well a little bit here. But I
am really curious whether whether there's whether the people that
are nostalgic for I mean, I've seen a few kind

(12:51):
of surfing the net or you know that they're nostalgic
for the Glory Days and the ECW Arena. And there
was something special thing and that it didn't make it
all the way, but it did. It did have a
great influence on on the business. And it did you know,
it was it was something that had never been seen before,
and it had a real atmosphere to it and had

(13:12):
its best and you know, I wrote some of this
critical stuff I ever wrote on ECW, and deservedly so.
And I also wrote some things that were that were
not critical at all about the spirit of it all Heyday.
So I'm real curious are there people? Are there people
that are going or are there people that are going?
You know, I'm twenty five and I've heard about ACW

(13:32):
my whole life. I missed the Heyday, and I missed
or twenty and I missed the one night stand and
what happened there, And all I ever got to see
was this, And I've watched on the tape and now
we'll get a chance to really see these guys. Maybe
they're a little old, but I'm really gonna give this
a chance to see the old spirit of it. And
maybe that's an explanation, but how many people are.

Speaker 6 (13:52):
There out.

Speaker 3 (13:54):
Big zips in the chat room? Is the regular there
said during my rant that that I was only happy
enough to rate their matches on a one to five
star scale, kind of interaction to me saying, well, you know,
I'm so negative on it, but gee, Wade, you were
so happy to rate the matches at that time, and
without hearing from him to elaborate it. I mean, it's

(14:14):
sort of like when people say, oh, you're exploiting the
owen Hart death by selling the issue covering his death,
and it's just you know that kind of It's like,
we actually covered not just the parts of the business
that we like, and we don't just say because there's
a really bad aspect of something, we no longer will
cover it. I mean, it was a wrestling promotion, and
we covered any major wrestling promotion and have for a
twenty three year history, and so yeah, we ranked the matches,

(14:38):
but as you said, Bruce, some of our most critical
writing was about the way ECW conducted themselves business wise.
Paul Hayman went through stretches of time where his truth
telling was exposed on a public level like never before.
The way that we did not countless but we didn't
make several interviews, long interviews with ECW people, and confront

(14:59):
of them was pretty tough questions about some of the
stuff that went on in that promotion. There were great shows.
I mean at the beginning of the stews there was
especially I mean it was like, wow, we had never
seen this before. But at some point we were all
on a journey together learning about the consequences of not
having judicious use of weapons and violence and the price

(15:23):
that people were paying, and there came a point to
pull back on it, and then when it turned out
to be as tragic as it did. Let's not pretend
we don't even have to say, oh, I saw it
coming from a mile away, or even I knew what
was happening when it was happening. Let's just pretend we
all only have the benefit of twenty twenty hindsight, because
clearly we all have that if the only way we
knew that some of the things that happened in ECW

(15:44):
in retrospect were bad for the participants and bad for
the industry, and it wasn't entirely bad. There's some great
ideas and great executions and great performances and great things
to watch on videotape and retrospect. But with hindsight being
twenty twenty, it's so weird. It's so seems so callous
to walk out there and I know it's a performance,
although they were pretending it wasn't. And that makes it

(16:06):
even worse to not, you know, pay tribute to the
fact that a lot of people aren't around who are
part of that, and there's a reason for it anyway,
should we take calls us absolutely?

Speaker 1 (16:16):
All right, we're about to go to a commercial break.
Why listen to commercial breaks when you can go vip
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PW torch dot com slash go vip. That's PW torch
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(16:38):
to remove the ads and plugs through Patreon. Full VIP
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treat yourself to a streamlined, ad and plug free listening
experience with a VIP or Patreon membership. I've been out
this afternoon, but James Caldle has a blog up on
pterb torch dot com that people in the chatroom are

(16:59):
raving about, so I look forward to reading that and uh,
and I encourage everybody else to go to Peter B
Torch dot com and check out James Caldoll's blog responding
to this.

Speaker 3 (17:08):
All right, we've got six people on hold, and let's
go to uh aery code seven three too. Thanks for calling.
Please station your name and where you're from? Yeah?

Speaker 6 (17:17):
From Jersey?

Speaker 3 (17:18):
What's your name? I'm sorry I coudn't get it. Bill, Bill, Okay,
Bill from Jerseys?

Speaker 4 (17:22):
What's up? Yeah?

Speaker 6 (17:24):
I saw the T and A thing last night. I
really wasn't excited about it.

Speaker 7 (17:27):
I mean when all this time rhyos their melody he
does read when he's going.

Speaker 1 (17:31):
To us title Yeah, I mean other than that of business,
you can go away from me.

Speaker 3 (17:36):
He's been overused too much on.

Speaker 6 (17:39):
Their television and I've been watching Rolling.

Speaker 3 (17:41):
Their show has been kicking ass good. Yeah, I don't know. Well, Bruce,
do you want to ask him anything?

Speaker 4 (17:51):
Well, I mean you got the answers, not all not
all excited about it. You know, one thing, I'm glad
you brought up a this though, because of this the
story of this day or coming. They're here, they're they're
teleigly you make this and it makes this hardcore ECW
like weapon. And yet now the story is that the

(18:11):
beautiful and thoughtful Dixie Carter invited these guys in so
that they could ask for you know, Tommy Juma could
cry and ask for one last you know, show that
you know, they could build the bar and put on
the show one more time, and what's the business part
of that? What does does this have anything to do
with it? You know, who was they? So I'm you know,

(18:33):
I think that was another one where they just kind
of you know, classic to you today, well, and I
think we.

Speaker 3 (18:39):
Do and don't. Brings up a good point too, Bruce,
which is when the last time Rhinald did anything well,
I think you can kind of apply it to the
five people standing in the ring, including Nick Foley. You know,
at some point we kind of have to think, what what
are we look at who's standing in the ring? I
mean it and you know, you can only imagine what's
going through the mind of some of the smarter people
in that ring too, you know, with the with the

(19:01):
little trip that people are taking Dixie on, the little
markout trip trip that people are taking Dixie on. But
it's Raven and Stevie Richards and Rhino and Dreamer and Foley.
I mean, are we really supposed to get that excited
about this? I mean, in the end, we're supposed to
get excited to see a paper Who's Rhino who we've

(19:22):
seen in TNA for years Raven, who's essentially been treated
like a job or in a sideshow act, as has
Stevie Richards and Tommy Dreamer and so oh by the way,
Big Zip says that he takes back what he said
because Bruce was expressing concerned about ECW e than a
nineteen ninety eight and his meat Puppet's column July eleventh,
nineteen ninety eight. If you're a VIP member, check out

(19:43):
the Bruce Mitchell library and read me Puppets because it's
a very very good article that explains kind of where
I'm coming from on what I why. I was almost
offended by the the exclusion of the reality of what
ECW was. All Right, Bill, any any closing comments? We'll
keep her on through calls.

Speaker 6 (20:04):
If not, Yeah, I just want to switch shows real quick.

Speaker 7 (20:06):
Wrong's been pretty good heading into summer Slam?

Speaker 6 (20:09):
Would you take on the whole seven on seven?

Speaker 3 (20:11):
Think? I agree? I agree Raw has been good, and
I think that they're energized heading into summer Slam. Somebody,
I think it was on Yesterday show where day before
asked why called in when James was hosting and asked
why w W isn't that good all the time? And
and I you know, it's it's it's a tough question,
but you can't. You're not necessarily gonna have every idea

(20:31):
hit on all cylinders, and there are gonna be times.
I think it's natural where you where you are going
to you're going to excel because certain things hit a
crescendo that you that you built a foundation for. And
I think that's kind of what we're seeing. It could
have flopped, and it hasn't been perfect in every way
in execution, and I think even Hysic Mahn and his

(20:51):
team would agree. But I think that there's been some
some some better shows lately, and I I accept that
at case, you know, WWE kind of peaks around home
Polly SummerSlam and certainly the world rumbled and resume a season.
It's kind of natural for a year round fifty two
weeks of your show to have a few lulls where
they're kind of in cruise control, trying to regear and
figure out what they want to do next. Okay, let's

(21:13):
just keep going through calls and let's go to er
code nine one seven. Thanks for calling. Please state your
name and where you're from.

Speaker 8 (21:18):
Hey, I thanks for my taking my call.

Speaker 4 (21:20):
It's Joe from Queens.

Speaker 3 (21:21):
Hey, Joe from Queen's what's up?

Speaker 4 (21:23):
Hey? Not much man?

Speaker 8 (21:23):
Oh you know it's another day, another ramp against CNA and.

Speaker 4 (21:26):
How horrible they are even know what the funniest thing is,
like I watched.

Speaker 8 (21:30):
The show last night and I you know, you guys
can't believe me or not. I haven't a television background.

Speaker 3 (21:36):
Like I went to the school forward, I don't believe you.

Speaker 4 (21:38):
And for the record and the one thing okay cool
and for the one thing I was watching and now
you started last because.

Speaker 8 (21:44):
I'm like, you know, even if I didn't go to school,
I can figure this out. If you're promoting Simo Joe
against Jeff Hardy and he's like this classic, you know
match that you need really no build up once or
whatever or two, why on earth are you having Eric
Bischoff come on the phone and at the beginning of
the match to talk about where he's been when you
could have easy to like put him put his phone

(22:06):
call like during the knockouts match or something a little
bit you know less than or told them polls, you
know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (22:11):
It's just like little stupid things like that.

Speaker 8 (22:13):
That just make me just scread a handle. These people
like Kine have absolutely no idea you know, what is
going on, no attention to detail whatsoever.

Speaker 4 (22:23):
You know, it's just little stupid things like that.

Speaker 8 (22:25):
Like it just boggles my mind, like how they run
a wrestling company here and like not to go crazy
on a rank because I could probably talk for the
next power about it. You know, how who is the
brainchild behind.

Speaker 6 (22:37):
This ECW movie? Because I don't think he's saying is that.

Speaker 8 (22:41):
You know, we've been doing focus groups and we've been,
you know, doing research and marketing. Like who are they
researching and marketing to? Like do they go into their
tea at the Impact Center and they grab like fifty
random people and go, hey, listen.

Speaker 4 (22:53):
Come into this room.

Speaker 8 (22:53):
We're gonna ask you questions about what you really like
and and since half of them like ECW because you know,
I'm sorry, but I love DCW.

Speaker 4 (23:01):
I loved it when I was a kid. I thought
it was the greatest.

Speaker 8 (23:04):
You know, I could you put a list of five
things together of like the greatest moments in wrestling in
the nineties for me, I'll put an ECW up there,
like just like from watching it for the first time
and like it being so eye opening.

Speaker 4 (23:16):
But I do not want to see this again.

Speaker 2 (23:18):
It's done, It's over with, you know, w W E
did what they did when they redirected it, and it's
five years later and I do not have any I
don't want to see Tommy During or wressell Sadman or Samman.

Speaker 4 (23:28):
Come back for you know whatever.

Speaker 3 (23:30):
You know they can't work anymore.

Speaker 8 (23:31):
What are they gonna do. They're gonna like they're gonna
give like a board with knives or something and try
to do the most extreme stupid things to like put
an eye through like nails and everything that we're gonna
sit there and just go crazy. And I just wanted
to ask you guys, like who is the brainchild behind
her really focused groove there?

Speaker 4 (23:45):
And then how did let me number one? Who's who's
think about? Think about a survey? They give you a
survey and they said, what kind of wrestling.

Speaker 9 (23:54):
Would you like?

Speaker 4 (23:55):
Would you like so pathless, would you like fresh new character?
Would you like extreme action with a lot of violence? Well,
guess what people are gonna say. They want extreme action
with a lot of viols. That's what they're gonna put down.
But as far as like but as far as the
survey and all that. It's it's Tommy Dreamer. When Tommy
Dreamer got there, he started working on Dixie little by little,

(24:18):
and he played his cards right. It was sort of
it was sort of, I don't know if I really
want to do this. We get Paul in then we
could and he really just put he played the things.
You know, he's playing it. He's playing the reluctant you know,
the reluctant ride. You know, well, let's come on. And
then he got her. He got her to do it
Tommy Dreamer, you know. And and what it does, it'll

(24:39):
linked to Tommy Dreamer's career. It'll help cement them into
the power if it works. And I'm sure he believes
in all of his heart that they you know, that
that the smear of the E c W Sci Fi
show was terrible, and that he's gonna take advantage of
you know, he's gonna make this right. And and then

(25:00):
he's gonna move on to either get control of the
creative team or be a be a power on the
creat team. Because when they go to him and say
you have to work on Erry Bischoffen and and Just
throus So and Hulk Cogan he's gonna say, sure, I
worked with a lot of people, I can do this
because he's he's a terrible book. And you know, you
can you kind of see what happened last night. And

(25:22):
the only thing you figured out was, you know, get
my old friends back in and also and you get
your friends back in and give him a chance their loyalty,
and and then he you know, he made sure that
Dixie was the focus and the hero of the piece,
the one that he beseeched.

Speaker 3 (25:37):
And did that.

Speaker 4 (25:38):
But I have to say, I mean, clearly, you clearly
have your PhD in television that you were able to
pick up it. Maybe you don't have an interview with
an executive during the hottest match of the show. Maybe
that's not the time to do that. But I did
enjoy it was very much. You know, it was very
reminiscent Eric Bischhoff's performance there. It was very reminiscent of
you know, when they drag out one of those hostages

(25:59):
and they make them read a statement about how well
they really do love that love the terrorists you're about
to chop their head off a sud the exciting you know,
it's I mean, that was I mean, that was just
heartwarming to hear it with Eric, and you know, Eric's
the health and whatever foolish thing is that Chicarda wants
to do. Hal Coogan and I are here to to
paternalistically stand by no matter what because we both need

(26:21):
some money.

Speaker 3 (26:22):
It wasn't it's been commenting on the chat room and
I wrote this in my in my report last night,
which I did live during the show on PW torch
dot com, where it having Eric call in at the
beginning of that match. Just it again. It's it's there,
it's the tell. It's it's the thing that they do
that they don't know that they do that gives away
fundamentally at the foundation. What's wrong with the mindset that

(26:44):
goes into this show. You you've got the first ever
match with Samoa, Joe and Jeff Hardy and you just
throw it out there without a week's notice and the announcement. Mike,
Sane and pasnew it was a big deal. They did
their best. They did the best job that they could
conveying that it was a big deal in the amount
of time that they had to hype it. But it
would that's a match that you don't give away on

(27:05):
TV or if you do, you build it up for
three weeks and it's the centerpiece of the last half
hour of your show. Look at what SmackDown does. SmackDown
has a good four it's different, it's a different formula
than Raw, and it doesn't it's not the only way
to do it. But when they have a big main event,
generally speaking, the ring introductions begin with about twenty five
minutes left in the show, and then they go to
commercial and they come back and the match has time

(27:26):
to be to feel like a main event match. And okay,
this said a ten minute time limit and all that,
and they could have waited that if they really wanted
to make a big deal out of this match, but
the SmackDown makes it seem like a big deal when
there's a big match up between top tier wrestlers, and
they find a way to do that and an impact, doesn't.
They just keep loading the show so inefficiently with one
match after another after another. Nothing sinks in and in

(27:48):
the process one of many examples and Dixie is saying, oh,
this is real, not like the other stuff, which was oh,
just she just doesn't get it. But yeah, to have
the bishoff call to the beginning of a big match
just drove me nuts, and it really did give away
where they put wrestling. And I mean, imagine at the
beginning of an MMA fight, and the analogy holds. It's

(28:11):
not one's reel and one's not. It's that you're trying
to create drama and tell a story with two people
in combat in a rank. Whether scripted or reel doesn't matter.
The drama and the way the brain interprets it and
reacts to it is similar. Imagine at the very beginning
of a big fight cutting to an interview with some
executive who was on vacation. I mean, it just it
blows my mind that.

Speaker 5 (28:31):
They do that.

Speaker 3 (28:32):
You can do an interview with an executive during a match.
I would be against it in general, but there you
can maybe pull it off, but not at the very
beginning of a very big match. You you have to
pick your spot for that very carefully if you do
it at all.

Speaker 10 (28:45):
Need an extra dose of positivity in your wrestling podcasts,
will come join me Alan fourrel Over in the Progress,
Paradise at Peter georch VIP as we mask on the
bright side of wrestling and focus on some of the
great matches and shows from a the world, be it
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(29:05):
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(29:28):
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the Paradise.

Speaker 3 (29:51):
No, I totally agree.

Speaker 8 (29:52):
I mean it was just stupid and and real quick
and I'll hang up.

Speaker 6 (29:54):
Just two really quick follow ups.

Speaker 8 (29:56):
One, I'm why you know it's fine that this this
wouldn't normally have been like the lead as far as
why impacts is terrible Besides leads, the w thing and
the bishopping, But why do they constantly have to try
to work Jeff Jared into this team this this work shute.

Speaker 11 (30:12):
Angle like they always seem.

Speaker 4 (30:13):
To do every four months someone different, Like, oh you're
you're you're the power guy, Jeff.

Speaker 8 (30:18):
We know you're an ego maniac. But they have tried
that so many times. It's like they like the sitting
heels turn that never ever worked, and it's so annoying
when they try to do that with him, And I'm
just like, it's just I don't even know what they're
trying to accomplish and doing that.

Speaker 4 (30:31):
That's why I help you guys think the same thing.

Speaker 8 (30:32):
And also and I'll hang up right after this.

Speaker 6 (30:36):
I at least they've been.

Speaker 8 (30:37):
Really good, especially with rise of Blake, and I've noticed
over the last four months it's had been pushing really
great established you know, really young talent and whatnot. Do
you guys think that with you always hear the rumors
about how the Triple h and like Shawn Michaels used
to always like, you know, you hear that stuff, like
they kind of put their their thumb over people and
don't let them, you.

Speaker 4 (30:56):
Know, rise to the ranks.

Speaker 8 (30:58):
Have you guys thought about how and le or Mike
trivile H has been injured and he hasn't really been around,
and Sean Michael's.

Speaker 4 (31:04):
Has been in retirement, had yet.

Speaker 8 (31:05):
Noticed that, it seems do you think that has something
to do with the reason why Hall has been lightning
to the you know, to the top as far as
it goes with young and and I'll hang up and listen.

Speaker 3 (31:14):
Great, great, great call, Joe, thanks a lot three things.
He's got two questions, one on Jared and and the
second one on Hunters and Michaels. I want to bring
up one other thing. Somebody in our in the chat
room in our previous subjects said that interviewing Bishot during
matches like when ESPN interviews a manager during an actual
baseball game, and I'm not sure if he's endorsing it
or not.

Speaker 4 (31:33):
You know, no, it's not managers watching the game. The
manager is watching the game, and he has a vested
interests and who lives and loses the baseball game. Eric
Bischoff is out somewhere, doesn't follow them though he doesn't
even know there's a match on, and he has their
vested interests, and whether Hardy wins or not. No, it's
not the same thing.

Speaker 3 (31:53):
No, No, you're right, it's not exactly the same thing.
And like I said, I don't know if he was
saying if he's annoyed by that when it happened, or
if he thinks it's okay because it happens. But my
point is is a baseball game goes nine innings, first
of all, goes nine innings, and so if they break
away to interview somebody, sometimes you get an injured player
in the broadcast booth or an next player who comes

(32:15):
in to add analysis. What is he adding analysis up
the game? And do they bring in that guest in
the bottom of the ninth with the bases loaded, And
no they don't. They put him on in the third
or fourth inning when the game couldn't end at any second.
You don't have a guest retired hockey player come on
in overtime or in the final five minutes of a
playoff game that's scored it, that's tied or two to

(32:37):
one score. So there's a way to do it, but
you're rikers. The good point is they're interviewing the manager
who's watching the game. This was an interview with Bishoff
that had nothing to do with the match that was
going on the ring. He wasn't there to add to
the match. He was there to say, please don't turn
the channel. We know nobody likes this fake wrestling crap,
so we're going to try to keep the match short
and distract you with other things because we know it

(32:58):
would be crazy to expect you to watch the Samoa Joe,
Jeff Hardy or whoever is in the ring at the time.
Who would care about this? It just it. That's where
it leaks through people who don't respect what wrestlers do,
when the story they tell in the ring, and the
skills that they have, and the fact that in the end,
it's about a fight in the ring, simulated or real,
it's about a fight in the ring. If you don't
get that's what your job is all about. Is to

(33:20):
sell that and make it as dramatic and believable and
exciting and consequential as possible. Get out of this industry
because you're hurting it. You shouldn't be in it if
you don't get that, that, in the end, is what
this is all about. And nobody's been successful in any
other way, including vincers are trying over and over again
any other way, it should be about the wrestlers. Okay,
Jeff Jarrett, that promo last night was who were they?

(33:43):
What were they talking about? If I don't know, there's
nobody who knew what they were talking about. It was
it just for Dickie Carter's sake. I mean, that's what
it seems like, this whole show. It is just for Dixie.

Speaker 4 (33:54):
Yeah. Actually, there's this idea that they waffle back and
forth or we need to like we need to bring
new accent and you know, start a new or your
team will change forever. You know that phrase is sick
and tired of hearing and or you know, we've got
these guys with name recognition, let's use them because that'll
help the rags. Well, well that's that's that thing where

(34:15):
and again it's like a t it's a TV thing.
There's there's some name recognition and rating straws. Yeah, wrestling
Jevin nashis Russell transfer who Jeff jaredis? They don't, but
having them on the show is going to change your ratings.

Speaker 3 (34:31):
One I oh the other question, Michaels, Oh, i'd targee
if you don't, I didn't, No, go ahead, okay, okay,
Hunter and Michael's one thing. I think Michaels and the
Click get they just trust me. They deserve a lot
of heat and and Kevin ash and his pork talk
with me, which by the way, we're gonna repost that
sometime soon. And for the f T members, because some
of it's been taken offline, it's like a seven hour

(34:52):
interview with them. We're gonna create a page with just
each of the installments and all the introductions and all
the transcripts plus the audio. So be on the lookout
for that. VF members great, I mean, really entertaining, informative interviewing.
He called himself. He said, he said, flat out we
were jerks back in the day and he regretsed it.
So say, would you have what he's doing now and
participating with kind of angle and whether he gets what

(35:13):
needs to be done to fix wrestling or fixteen eight today.
That aside, the Click deserves a lot of criticism that
they received. But I will say this, if you look
at the track record of who they who, they used
their influence of vinsic Man to pass along word from
the road from their experience in the ring about who
they thought would make it and who who couldn't, who
could draw money, and who wouldn't. And if you look

(35:33):
at the people that they said weren't gonna draw money,
they never drew money. And in retrospect you don't really
look back at Brian Clark Adam Baum and think he
and and the Pirate and Van Man Bigelow could have
carried the promotion. There were some they they sometimes abused
their power, but they definitely at times were eyes and

(35:56):
ears for Vincent Man in a way because that that
helped the motion and that and that helped weed out
some people that maybe weren't showing the signs of being draws.
And and it's yes, it's dangers to have a wrestler
in a position to at that kind of power that
they did at that time, but they didn't always abuse it.
And I would say in retrospect there weren't a lot
of of complaint semistic man that were based purely on

(36:17):
personal differences, personality clashes that were recommendations they made that
were disingenuous to hurt business. So I'll say that now
judging Triple H, I think he learned the wrong lessons
from the Click and I think Triple H has done
a decent amount to hold others back who had up upside,
and I think he found in his mind he was

(36:38):
doing it for the same reasons. But I think he
got he lost control at times and really ended up saying, well,
because they're not perfect, because they're not as good as
me in this way or that way, they don't deserve
to be here. But give Triple H credit. He picked
a good guy in Seamus to give a push to
right now, I mean Triple H and Shamus started hanging out.
Triple H endorsed this push for him, and Seamus has

(36:59):
turned out to be a breakout start this year. So
in fairness, he had a good Uh, he made a
good call. There is that I think fair birth.

Speaker 4 (37:07):
Yeah, he definitely made a good call. Well, I don't
know about the words Brett Hart came to mind or
some of that click stuff.

Speaker 7 (37:13):
Yeah, yeah, and all that.

Speaker 3 (37:15):
But yeah, let me pause you and then I I
apologize because you let me talking about it. But but
with Brett, we have learned that it was a two
way street when it came to that. They each had
their own way of going about really getting under each
other's nerves. But you're right, that was very personal. But
it wasn't. Oh, Brett was perfect and the click was
totally mean. No, okay, it was. I didn't don't want

(37:36):
to add to your point, not disagree with you.

Speaker 4 (37:39):
So as far as you know, Sean, Sean Michaels was
a few years removed from from some of that in
the way he looked at things. He didn't Triple Edge
still plays that game, and I think the Triple Edge
Triple Edge, I'm sure just because he's injured and rehabbing
his injury is washing tevel Mosi and it has his
influence to give and listen to about to listen to

(38:00):
about that. The one thing to me that's different, I
don't know that people picked up on. But the one
thing to me that's really different is that they've done
a very good job with the Nexus people. Is that
they have not exposed them in the ring, and that
they built the anticipation for when they finally are gonna
have to fight for their lives in the ring. And
that's the one thing they did a good job of.

(38:22):
I thought Monday night that you know, it was a
very good show, but instead of making it is the
exact opposite what they've done for years and years was
just making sure that you saw, you know, every every
facet of the guy before he got he got there.
So a lot of people it's gonna be you know,
there's gonna be pressure on those guys to perform. But
on the other hand, there's gonna be a lot of
people paid their money and then and we'll see all

(38:44):
those guys will perform, but the money will be there,
you know. And that's how that's how you build anticipation
for something. You get people to want it and you
hold it back. They create a need for it, and
then you hold it back and then you say then
you say, okay, here's the time you have to pay
to see it, but you're really anxious to see it now.
And they've done that with you know, Nexcell Sources, John
Cenas see whatever.

Speaker 3 (39:07):
You you are listening to the PW Torch Live cast
time Wade Keller, editor and publisher of Progressing Torch newsletter
and PW torch dot Com, joined today by PW Torch
senior columnist Bruce Mitchell. After the show is over, Bruce
and I will be recording the vi P the VIP
Exclusive Bruce Mitchell Audio Show and going in depth on
more from Impact If if we can plug our nose

(39:29):
and do that and uh and see if there's any
bright spots in in last night's show and talk about
raw this week and Nexus and the news of the week,
and then also take VIP member questions. Every weekend we
spent about two hours, sometimes we go longer discussing current
events and also uh taking VIP member questions on the
history of the sport and so VIP members be on

(39:50):
the lookout for that. If you're interested in becoming a
VIP member. Got full details on what it entails and
the pricing structure for it, you can go to PW
torch dot com slash go VIP. That's PW torch dot
com slash go vip. Bruce I just put up yesterday
a one of the original Bruce Mitchell audio shows. We
didn't even call it a Bruce Mitchell audio show back then.

(40:11):
It was just called an audio supplement to the newsletter
at that point, back in July of two thousand and four,
which is around the time that the VIP site launched
and we started doing computer audio. And it's a seventy
minute discussion on Rick Flair's autobiography To Be the Man
and you had written a column on it, and we've
got a link on the VIP side. Up to that,
you wrote one of your long feature lengths columns reviewing

(40:32):
the book, and after reading the column, I just felt
you got a lot more to say about this book.
Let's do an audio And I think we've kind of
debated in recent weeks and months how did this whole
Bruce Mitchell Audio Show start. And I think that actually
was kind of how it started. That was the first
time that I think I called you up and said
let's spend an hour talking about something. So that was
back in ninety four, two thousand and four. So we've
got that up now for VIP members, along with a

(40:54):
new Bruce Mitchell Audio Show Spotlight section with three different
audio shows with Rick Flair themes. One is a review
of the Rick Flair book, as I said, Another is
a discussion on the all time Greatest Wrestlers, which focused
a lot on Rick Flair, and then another is four
Hours discussing the Four Horsemen DVD, reviewing it talking about

(41:17):
the history of all the incarnations of the Horsemen, So
what was true in the DVD, what wasn't great behind
the scenes stories. Bruce Mitchell, you lived through that era
in the mid Atlantic area. You saw every minute of
television probably leading up to and during the Four Horseman era.
So VIP members, we've pulled out some of these archives
and it's part of our new VIP directory where we're

(41:37):
taking just really rich back library of audio and text,
features and back issues and putting them up. And that's
one of the things that we've done in the last week.
And there's actually three other directories up, including a bunch
of other audio Torch Talk, So VFP members check that
out and you're interesting in a VFP membership. Besides, add
free access to Peteroreytorch dot com, the VIP after show
after most editions of this live cast, the new w

(42:00):
Torch newsletter every week, back issues from five years ago
and twenty years ago that we put up in PDF format,
new every week, and all the audio there's We've got
these great archives, so check it out. PW Torch dot com,
slash go VIP. If you haven't signed up yet, why not.
We'd love to have you as a member, and we
think we give you a lot of bang for your buck.

(42:22):
All right, let's get to the phone calls. Bruce for
the final twenty one minutes of the show and get
that feedback we're looking for and see if anybody actually
liked last night's program. Let's go to ericode three two one.
Thanks for holding. You've been on hold since the beginning.

Speaker 4 (42:33):
Of the show.

Speaker 3 (42:33):
What's your name and where are you from?

Speaker 6 (42:35):
Hey?

Speaker 3 (42:36):
Guys, Hey Adam Good here from you. What's up?

Speaker 11 (42:39):
Hey?

Speaker 4 (42:40):
I have two quick questions for you, guys.

Speaker 12 (42:41):
But I thought one comment while you're talking about the
Eric Vishov's talking to the match thing, isn't that just
one more thing that TNA does to like put the
spotlight on the fact that it's not a real competition,
because they're just pretty much telling you, we know when
this match is going to end, and it's not gonna
end while this guy's talking, so don't really worry about
what's going on in the ring.

Speaker 3 (42:58):
I think that the first I think, when wrestlers lock
up at the beginning of a match, you should be
talking about the match, you know. I mean, I don't
think that's this crazy concept and they want to right
at the beginning, and it is it's that tell. It's
that tell. It reveals that they don't respect what's going
on in the ring. Or they don't think the viewers care.
And there's a reason that might be a self fulfilling
prophecy at some point if you portray matches that's so

(43:21):
unimportant that when they start they do that. Their rationale
if I was to put myself in their head. Besides,
when no one wants to watch wrestling, so we need
to distract them with bells and whistles and juggling acts.
Is it's the beginning of the match. It was unlikely
to end right away, and they might make that their
defense for putting it on at the beginning rather than
at the end. And I mean, there could be an
argument for that, but like you're saying, yeah, it just
it highlights again this isn't going to end anytime soon

(43:43):
because we're talking about something else.

Speaker 12 (43:45):
Yeah, okay, great, Well I have two quick questions about TEENA.
They seem like little things, but again they're kind of
things that, like, you know, take people out of the experience.
The first one, maybe you've talked to that as before,
but I can always listen to the show. The titles
at the beginning of each episode. I mean, it just
seems so unnecessary. It just seems like they're just advertising
this back that.

Speaker 3 (44:03):
Yeah, this is all free.

Speaker 12 (44:04):
Determined, we know what's gonna happen. And here, I mean,
it seems more like a you know, here's our soap
bomb or here's our sitcom or whatever. I mean, it
just seems very out of place and around. I mean,
it just seems like they're trying to be a little
too clever or something. Do you guys have any opinion
on whether they shouldasey it was titled or not.

Speaker 3 (44:17):
I've ranted on them. I don't like them. I hate
when they say, you know something, you know, it's like
flares revenge. You know, they'll say something like that and
it turns out so there gets revenge on that show, Like,
you know, how do they how do they know that's
gonna happen? I mean, this isn't Simon and Simon. It's
not you know. I don't know if they still put
titles at the beginning of dramas anymore.

Speaker 1 (44:35):
Not.

Speaker 3 (44:36):
I don't think I see them very often anymore. If
I do, they I don't. But a lot of shows
used to have back in the day, back in the
seventies and eighties, you know, Quinn Martin production, you'd watch
three to san Francisco, I'm dating myself. But and they'd
have the name of the show, but it's a scripted
show and everybody knows it. So yeah, I'm against it.
And Bruce, you've granted on it for different reasons.

Speaker 8 (44:53):
Well, I don't like that.

Speaker 4 (44:54):
But you know, I'll go to the movies from Tom
to Tom, and I see your stuff on televisions. When
the title comes off, they are not quotations around the
title that I mean, it's just illiterate and that really
it's a detail from week to week. And I know
they've heard this complaint and they don't change it, and
it's just you know, I think you And it also

(45:15):
just goes back and also goes back to there's this
creative team and these people who think that they are
really smart and they shouldn't be working in this in
this pro wrestling ghetto that's beneath them. And so what
they're doing is they're telling you rewrite movies every week.
This is a movie. Yeah, it's a pro wrestling shows
for you. So you know it's yeah, it's it's it's

(45:36):
pretentious of and alliterate at the same time, it's in
the wrong place.

Speaker 1 (45:40):
Yeah, you don't have to wait for the weight keller
for wrestling post show to find out what I thought
of Monday Night Raw and SmackDown. Each week, you can
check out my reports that are updated live throughout Raw
and SmackDown at pw torch dot com. I written report.
We'll tell you what's happening in detail in case you

(46:02):
missed the show, and it'll also analyze key segments and
give my random thoughts end quips on what I am
watching as it airs. So check it out every Monday
night and Tuesday night at pewtorch dot com. That also
applies to WWE payperviews. I cover those live at pw
torch dot com with a detailed written report with star ratings,
and of course you can find other TV reports from

(46:23):
other contributors to pw torch such as nxt roh, Impact
Wrestling and more. Check it out pw torch dot com
your first stop for TV and pay per view written reports.

Speaker 3 (46:43):
Another question, Adam, Yeah, just.

Speaker 12 (46:46):
One most question by DNA. It seems like a small
thing again, but WF is guilty this Sometimes that I
know it's TNA. They'll have, you know, a big angle
and they'll have some guy run out to make this
save and it's a huge thing. And the guy's music
plays as he's coming out and impromptu save. I mean,
isn't that just the other thing. It's like, so this
guy's coming out to save his best friend from being harmed,

(47:06):
and then he has the time to stop to tell
the soundboard to play his music. I don't know if
you guys think that's a big thing. Does it sometimes too?
But he pretty much every single time there's a big save.
You guys, it seems like it'd be more realistic if
he just runs out there, you know.

Speaker 3 (47:18):
Like some script I agree with that. I wouldn't do it.
I mean, it's a trade off. You want to get
that pop you you want to get the music in
there all the time, and sometimes there are trade offs
when it comes to realism and any kind of scripted drama,
and you kind of, you know, sometimes you accept them.
It's not my number one pet peeve, but I wouldn't
do it. I mean, that would be something that I
would strike off off the sheet. I would have the

(47:40):
rest of the run of the ring without music. I
think there should be intra music when when it's when
that restless scheduled to come out for a ring entrance,
but having theme songs to having your theme song play
when you're running through the ring on an impromptu basis, Yeah,
I think I think it's kind of ridiculous, honestly, overs.

Speaker 4 (47:57):
It's it's not one that gets me too much, to
tell the truth. You look back at the glass breaking,
that was a real dramatic thing, and yeah, I'm it
would it would break when he would, It would break
when he would, when he would make an appearance coming
down you didn't know that he was coming, and then
it'd be.

Speaker 3 (48:16):
But the color is talking about a running like.

Speaker 4 (48:20):
It's a run in.

Speaker 3 (48:21):
Yeah, have to run in.

Speaker 4 (48:22):
You know, you're not scheduled to be there, so it's
a run it so so that in that sense it's
something I can look the other way. Other way, I
have a similar problem with Nexts walking right down the
middle of the ramp to attack everybody in their music playing.
I mean, I think that's kind there's something a little
strange about, you know, the rebels that aren't supposed to
be doing something and you know, either to the music

(48:43):
and let them do it. I think that there's a
certain amount of artistic license that goes with this, and
and it just I've seen times too when I would
kind of raise my eyes two stays.

Speaker 3 (48:54):
Yeah, like I said, it's on my number one complaint,
I'm kind of with you, but I still am. I
I'd like to have them work hard to not do
it when they felt they could get away with not
doing it, to make it seem a little less orchestrated,
and even even a little touch of detail is show
the soundboard guy, like somehow show the soundboard guy like

(49:14):
who's stage left and kind of just do a wide
shot and show that when a guy starts to running
the ring, he just hits the music, like that's just
kind of what's done. And that would kind of plan
to see that. Okay, it's it's not somebody's noticing somebody's
running to the ring and then they start their music.
Or even if he could be backstage and maybe you
don't have to go that far, but that would address
that aspect of it if you wanted to be really

(49:35):
detail oriented as far as that goes, Adam, and you
follow up before we move on.

Speaker 4 (49:39):
Now that's it.

Speaker 3 (49:40):
Things to take him a call, great, appreciate your call.
Please call again. The number four The Love Cast here
is six four, six seven, one nine eight two eight.
That's six four six seven nine two eight, real quick, Bruce. Yesterday,
I think on the show, somebody called and asked, would
TNA go so far? Since they're using the ECW words, uh,
the letters, would they be so brazen as to actually

(50:01):
use old ECW footage that they don't have rights to?
And James called on Brian Hoop said, oh, probably not.
And I email James when I was listening to the
show live and I just said, James, that's open shot. No,
they can't possibly be that dumb. It's pretty brazen they're
using the initials. But I don't think we have to
have in hand whether they're dumb enough to actually use
footage they don't own. You agree with me?

Speaker 4 (50:21):
And I talked they were asking for it last night
when you know the takes show the fans are champion
E c W. There's a fan right up front with
an ec F and W that's that's designed the same
way as the brand used to be designed. I don't know.
I mean, you know, do smart lawyers whether there's also
the question of do you want to underdog accompanied by

(50:43):
doing after that? You know, maybe the maybe is it
wor their calm in their effort, but.

Speaker 3 (50:48):
It's it's it's a hazy legal situation because wrestling does
have a history, and to what degree does an independent
contractor as w W classifies them, have any right to
acknowledge their history, including a history that existed before WWE
owned them. Before WWE owned that footage, those wrestlers independently

(51:10):
worked for a company named VCW, and that is part
of their history as independant contractors. And I think it's
it's it is it's a muddy legal area in terms
of whether TNA can acknowledge that Raven used to be
in the original ECW, a company that w W did
not own at the time, that it was big in
the nineties, and so I think it's bold that they're
doing this, and hopefully they have good lawyers, but using

(51:33):
using footage is like it's it's to me open and shut. No,
I mean that that would just be asking for it.

Speaker 4 (51:38):
You know, bold was not the word I yeah, to
describe what they're doing. But that's it's kind of cowardly.
I mean, it's it's not as backwards looking in a
whole lot of other things, but yeah, I mean that
push you know, it's like, let's see alcoholis you out?
I want, you know, I wonder, I mean, you have
to protect your intellectual property. And you know they've got
the time right there, they've got that. They have one

(52:00):
person in that group, if it wasn't that they said that,
you know, it's a hard core. Even had one person
in that group that never made an e W. But
when every single person is there and everything they do
is there to make you think this is ec w
re n im because this is ec w REI ning,
I don't know. I don't know.

Speaker 3 (52:16):
I'm but don't.

Speaker 4 (52:19):
I don't buy and I don't buy that that independent
contractor stuff helps them that much either. It hasn't helped
people in the past. I mean, of course have pretty
been pretty you know, and who had the more expensive lawyers,
They've been pretty. They've been pretty consistent with going with
that team. So yeah, but I think it takes a
lot of mirror. I'll say that. I mean, I think

(52:39):
it's I'm SUA said its w w on that one
want that name and they owned that name, and it's
not right, you know, it's not right to take somebody
in ellectial pop.

Speaker 3 (52:49):
Yeah, And I just it's because they they purchased the
copyright after all this stuff happened, and that stuff really
did happen to these people, and sling is different than
other forms of entertainment in the sense that the wrestlers
do travel, you know, but they I don't know. It's
just I think it's a little more hazy than you

(53:09):
have come down on shows that I haven't been part of,
like the live cast, when you've talked about this, I've
listened and thought, you know, I don't. I just don't
know that it's quite open and shut. I think they're
pushing it even for the even for what I think
maybe there's some wiggle room. I think they pushed beyond that.
But I'm my standard allows for a little bit of
wiggle room because Raven and Richards and Rhino and Dreamer
are identified with that, and they were identified with it

(53:30):
before ww WE owned it, And I don't think they
should be banned from assembling and talking about their history
as wrestlers, and they're using names that they have the
right to. So that's that's where I'm kind of not
as not as dry as you seem to be in
your comments on it. All. Right, back to the phone
lines versus Erico two one five thanks for holding for
so long. Please state your name and where you're from.
No problem.

Speaker 6 (53:51):
This is Eric in Philadelphia. Eric.

Speaker 3 (53:53):
Good to hear from me again. What's up?

Speaker 6 (53:55):
Oh, nothing much, just two things.

Speaker 4 (53:58):
I'm up some that some down on the ECW angle
last night.

Speaker 11 (54:02):
Yeah, because like I was into it at first until
I realized who was in the ring, and then when
Tommy started kying it just it just took me all
the way out.

Speaker 13 (54:10):
And you know, saying this is real and we're putting
it in your hands.

Speaker 4 (54:14):
It just it makes you realize as a fan like
it just it just it didn't work for.

Speaker 6 (54:20):
Me last night at all.

Speaker 3 (54:21):
It took me out of it. It kind of came
across patronizing I think by the end. Yeah, definitely, yeah,
almost like yeah it just yeah, I almost say.

Speaker 8 (54:32):
And also I was the caller, you say, I called
in and asked if they can use it.

Speaker 6 (54:36):
If they said they would use.

Speaker 3 (54:37):
The video, oh yeah yeah no no, I I mean
I think they had gotten a letter the next day
on that. If they haven't gotten a letter on all
this other stuff that would have gotten them a letter.
They just seemed really bold with it.

Speaker 4 (54:49):
Because I was watching last night.

Speaker 8 (54:50):
I don't know if you paid attention to it or not,
But they kept using former ECW started even Mike Sana
said it like it just kept.

Speaker 11 (54:57):
Over and over again.

Speaker 3 (54:58):
You think can there be any.

Speaker 4 (55:00):
Since towards them even mentioning their former ECW stars.

Speaker 3 (55:04):
I mean, Bruce, I think WW has a case. I mean,
I'm not saying that. I'm just I'm just not as
sure as it's just open and shut cutting right, just
because ECW pre existed in these wrestler infinic contris and
all that, but it is, I mean, the number of
times it was said last night, I mean you could say,
I mean, I would think a judge would look at
that as exploiting a brand that you don't know a

(55:25):
trademark to.

Speaker 4 (55:27):
Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (55:29):
The thing. Let's tell you about Tommy Drimer's history. He
started off in this promotion called, you know, work for
Joe Goodart. Then he worked for ECW, and then he
moved on to work for w Dow. Like you can
tell about a raven. He started off as Johnny Polo,
then he worked for each W.

Speaker 14 (55:42):
Like.

Speaker 3 (55:42):
That's historical facts, and I think you should all I
think you should always have the right to talk about
a wrestler's history. They're old names there, the brands they
worked for, the companies they work for. I think that's
fair use. But when you center a pay per view
and an angle around and this is where you're coming from, Bruce,
entirely around one chat, they're in their history, and you
reassemble them and you mention the letters over and over,

(56:03):
I mean, that's where I think they're pushing. They're more
than pushing it, you know. Like I say, they're beyond
the wiggle room that I would have given them, because
it is a whole angle built around a copyright and
a trademark and a brand that they do not own,
and they shouldn't be able to exploit in this way
anything else. Eric, No, that's it. And if you just
keep me on the line, yep, I'm doing that, Yep.

(56:24):
I'm doing that for everybody. Now I'm putt everybody on hold,
and then you can either hang up or stay on hold,
or hang up or or stay on the line. The
number is six four six.

Speaker 13 (56:33):
Eight.

Speaker 3 (56:34):
This is a PW Torch live cast on Friday July
twenty three, twenty ten. I'm Way Keller joined by Bruce Mitchell,
and we are now going back to the phone lines
as soon as here we go, as soon as live
blogtock refreshes there switchboard, which they do periodically. All right,
let's go to air cook five five nine. Please state
your name and where you're from.

Speaker 6 (56:52):
Hey, this is Steve from California.

Speaker 3 (56:54):
Hey, Steve, thanks, thanks for calling. What's on your mind?

Speaker 4 (56:57):
Hey?

Speaker 15 (56:58):
Is there any chance that business man has just watched
his hands thing? There's no value to these guys, There's
no value to the EPW name. I mean he even
shut it down and he's just saying, I mean, teenage
is going down hill and this is just another bad
idea for them to have and just hoping that this
will put them even farther under the gun and just

(57:18):
to get.

Speaker 6 (57:18):
Rid of them.

Speaker 3 (57:18):
Bet there, what do you think, Well, well.

Speaker 4 (57:21):
There's a couple of issues.

Speaker 6 (57:22):
There's one of those.

Speaker 4 (57:23):
You know, they could just go we don't have the
time and we're not gonna message this. So the other
thing is if you no matter what the value of
your intellectual property is, if you own intellectual property and
someone someone takes it and uses it and you don't object,
you can end up losing not only that property but
other profits. So you have to vigorously defend when people

(57:44):
are stealing your intellectrial property. So that's or well, whatever
it is they're doing here, copying it or whatever it is,
if they if they're so, you have to you have
to stand up for yourself and you have to say no.

Speaker 6 (57:53):
I could do that.

Speaker 4 (57:54):
WWE does do that. I mean that's small and large cases,
but it's very much the law that you can't just
sit back and go, Okay, you know they're doing this,
because somebody else can go, look, you let them do this.
Why don't you let us do this. It's only fair
that you let us take your property and do it.
This man.

Speaker 16 (58:15):
Searching for more great pro wrestling talk, then join me
Jason Powell, host of the free weekly Pro Wrestling Boom Podcast.
Each week, he'll hear the latest news and analysis from
me and my team at pro wrestling dot Net along
with other pro wrestling media members. Plus, the Pro Wrestling
Boom Podcast features long form interviews with notable names in
the pro wrestling industry. Subscribe an itunic, Stitcher, Downcast, and

(58:37):
all your favorite secondary apps, or visit us directly at
PW boom dot com. Once again, that's pw boom dot com.

Speaker 3 (58:48):
Anything else.

Speaker 15 (58:50):
Yeah, Honestly, before actually watching the show last night and
just reading about it, you know, I was kind of
looking forward to it, but just being the shape that
those guys are in and who else that they can
even bring in, I mean the fam man, he looked
horrible on the way out of the WV.

Speaker 6 (59:09):
I'm just I have no interest in walking this at all.

Speaker 3 (59:12):
Comes down, all right, Thanks, thanks for feedback, Steve appreciate it.
Let's go to Erico three one four. Thanks for calling.
Please stay your naming where you're from.

Speaker 13 (59:21):
Hey, thanks for taking my call. Guys, this stand from
Saint Louis.

Speaker 3 (59:24):
He did good here for me. What's on your mind? Oh,
not much.

Speaker 13 (59:27):
Just one of the things I want to mention about
T and I actually kind of two things. I'll get
some real quick, cause I know you haven't how much
time left here. One thing is with Nick Foley on
the promo that they did in the.

Speaker 3 (59:35):
E c W.

Speaker 13 (59:36):
You know, I was just really thought it was sad
to see that he says the line about now you're
cutting a wrestling promo to to Dixie Carter when she
was in the middle of that. It just completely takes
you out of the moment. Oh you know what I mean.
You know, it'd be like if you know there was
a love scene between you know, two guys, and parent
walks in and says, you know, oh, now you're doing
a love scene or something like that. It's just you know,
you can't you can't tell me. It's you know, you

(59:57):
can't immerse the first gat that going on. And the
other thing I guess I was gonna say is that
I was just really kind of pleasantly surprised to see
the Samoa Joe Jeff Hardy match go to a ten
minute drawn because I thought that, you know, Vince Russo
said that, you know, we sake wrestling's hands, don't like
to count the minute to our matches and all that stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:00:15):
Yeah yeah, and it's the way out of doing a
finished christ you got a problem with the time limits.
What do you have a problem with? Ten minute time limit?

Speaker 4 (01:00:24):
Ten minutes too short? Yeah, ten minutes, I mean ten
is too short to stop the match. Mean that's not enough,
Tom and any anything that to do. That's that we'd
be saying. And when you have and when you don't
do it consistently with its consistent finish and people get
used to it, you can do it in the territory
days because you didn't see many events on television and
it was a very special thing to see two big

(01:00:45):
rough you know, two big stars go to a twenty
minute tom Lem or go to a thirty minute tom Lander.
An hour Timelander, ten minute Tomlin is just too short.
And and I.

Speaker 3 (01:00:57):
At house shows, yeah, like they would go five minutes
elast fifteen minutes remain like that would be an altepile
the match.

Speaker 4 (01:01:05):
Yeah, you do that constantly through the show when you
do it all the time, But when you don't have matches,
and all of a sudden you said, well, this is
a tournament tom limits and they're going to do a draws.
You get through action that the people have left night,
which is what the hell?

Speaker 6 (01:01:16):
You know?

Speaker 4 (01:01:17):
They the people that didn't And.

Speaker 3 (01:01:19):
It's so rare that a match goes even five minutes
on impact that they probably all have that time limit.
It's just still rare that a match goes ten minutes.
And when it does, people are like, what, so, all right,
thank you called Dan. We're gonna squeeze a couple of
culture air codes seven O three. Thanks for Colin, Please
stay your name and where you're from?

Speaker 7 (01:01:37):
Oh hey, guys just layer from Atlanta. I did not
see impacts, so I do not have a question on that.
But I don't know if there's been any discussion on
consequences Creed getting signed to a development deal and what
your your what your outlook is for that?

Speaker 3 (01:01:53):
You guys, what do you think for how to accused of?

Speaker 4 (01:01:57):
God, he's gonna college just casually the athlete, he's a
guy that has some potential and get him away from
playing a polo craze from thirty years ago and see
what he could do somebody that I'm not surprised.

Speaker 3 (01:02:12):
Yeah, I think he's worth it. I think he's worth signing.
He seems to have a good attitude, smart guy, Uh,
good athlete. Yeah, I wasn't crazy about the gimmick and
yeah I think I mean, I don't know if he's
got what kind of huge upside he has, But I mean,
of the candidates out there, I definitely definitely rolled the
dice if I'm WWE and and take a good look
at him anything else?

Speaker 7 (01:02:30):
There are there any other guys sort of you know,
maybe like an R O H or anything like that
that you really see as prospects.

Speaker 3 (01:02:38):
Maybe if they ever do do.

Speaker 7 (01:02:39):
A ninety season three, or you know, just younger talent
that you think might get that that kind of call.

Speaker 3 (01:02:45):
All right, pretty soon, cool, thank Claire. I put you
on hold and throw the bruth on that. Anybody standing
out on the indie scene now DUSA ball Ring of
Honor who you think is a top candidate for NXT
or developmental deal.

Speaker 4 (01:02:58):
No, No, Jo's in North Carolina's really good. I don't
know that that's that's what they're looking for, and on
that I'd be the one person out side.

Speaker 3 (01:03:07):
There's nobody in Ring of Honor that you think is
a candidate side.

Speaker 8 (01:03:10):
I'm not not, you know, to tell you the truth,
I'm not.

Speaker 4 (01:03:13):
I'm not the first who should ask this.

Speaker 3 (01:03:14):
To Okay, fair enough, all right, let's let's go to
we're not a lesson a minute two one five. Please
state your name, where you're from, and a quick question
or comment for us two one five. Oh okay, Oh
I already went to two one five. That's my fault.
I apologize. I screwed up. Oh good. We've actually gotten

(01:03:35):
to everybody, so we don't have to actually cut the
show off in the middle of someone talking. All right, Bruce,
we'll be doing the Bruce Mitchell vi IP Audio show
after this live cast. Thanks everybody for joining us. Once again,
if you're interested in a VIP membership, lots of good
stuff being added. The place to go to get information
and sign up is pw Torch dot com, slash go
VIP and until Monday on behalf of Bruce Mitchell. This

(01:03:58):
is way keeler. Thank you for joining us. Everyone in
the chatroom and all the colors as always impact last night,
So that was kind of one of the themes of
the show. We're a few weeks out from the show
and we have no idea what's going to happen other

(01:04:21):
than Dixie Carter said, if your show, do what you
want with it are One thing that crossed my mind
is is there is there could there be some big
angle coming up where the ECW crew just goes hardcore
heel and turns on Dixie and that this sappy, over
the top patronizing Dixie, thank you so much, is actually
in some way going to lead to a real factional

(01:04:43):
war because and that was my conclusion at the end
in my report on Peter getorchron com last night on
the show, is is this really is this leading to
something that would justify what we just watched in the
sense that they were trying to be over the top.
They were trying to set up Dixie in a way
that was just almost nauseating because in reality fully bitter
about being fired and they cannot do anything about it.

(01:05:05):
Raven and Stevie are upset about how they've been used.
Rhino has a reason to be bitter about he's been used,
and Dreamers their ring leader and they've actually come to
take over, and that there's actually this big twist coming
either at the pay per view or right before it.

Speaker 4 (01:05:19):
That is so so nice to you way that you
have that part of your personality where you can find
the good and everything and every cloud has a silver lining,
you know, I do, or the US label. I mean,
it's just it really is. It's a very nice thing
to have. It's a very you know, nice part of
your personality, and particularly after all the rustling and all
the things that you've seen over the years, that you

(01:05:40):
can still hold out one little part of your soul
for that. However, I've lost mind. No, I don't think
that's and I would think that I really hope that's
not it either. I could see, you know, the thing
is if if you're thinking about power of Tommy Dreamer's thinking,
how do you know I want to keep this going?

(01:06:00):
I love the seat up and I love these guys.
You know, this is where we really come back and
we just is a good job of pay per view.
Oh let's do an invasioning. So maybe that, But I
don't know. I don't think this. I don't think this
is like lower the expectations. And I don't think NAT
is lower the expectations and then hit them and then
they won't see the punch. Someone will have this great

(01:06:21):
angle coming out of it. I don't think that was
the plan. I think they just kind of thought, you know,
we really have made these casts away chunce, let's turn this.

Speaker 11 (01:06:28):
Into an angle.

Speaker 4 (01:06:28):
But yeah, could you know, I think this is going
to be exactly what it is. And not only that,
I bet you that the people that are that are
going home to their wives, the rufflers that are going
home to their wives and their girlfriends and going, you know, honey,
how much money were gonna be able to how much
money we got coming in this month? And they go, well,

(01:06:49):
I'm missing a pay per view, I'm missing a pay
per view, pay pay out because they brought in all
these old guys, and I have lost my slot on
the shut. We're not under guaranteed, you know, we're not
on a game money. Let's say some mo Joe or somebody.
So I think that's you know, that's gonna be some
real They're gonna be some really mad people about that.
And and for Dixie to keep for locker room as

(01:07:12):
unhappy as you know, as unhappy as usual instead of
even more I'm happy. And from what I'm hearing, I
mean what I'm hearing that the thing about you don't
have to tighten up your work coming out the hardest
mouth just infuriated everybody to the point where it was
worse than in the in the dog days at WCW.

Speaker 3 (01:07:30):
Yeah. So so because they know who put up because
they know who put them up to it, and it's
somebody higher up who can't go anymore, who's planting who
It's just like, who is Dixie to tell wrestlers. At
first of all, she owns the company. But that's like
Jerry Jones walking at a halftime and telling his offensive
line to protect the quarterback better and to do that

(01:07:52):
they need to do this, and that it's like stay
the f out of it. You're the owner. You're not
there to tell the wrestler. It's just it was so
ill advised. She loses so much good will with wrestlers,
and she's in a position where they can't express that
to her, so she's not gonna know it. It's the
same reason Shane McMahon didn't know what an embarrassment he
was in the ring, because who's gonna tell him that?
The same reason anybody in that in the family, or
in that high position of power ends up getting intoxicated

(01:08:15):
with how great they are because nobody dares be a
conflicting voice in a posing voice. And yeah, that was
that was so bad of her, But I think it's serious.
I honestly think whoever planted the seed for her to
do that probably was devious.

Speaker 4 (01:08:32):
You know.

Speaker 3 (01:08:32):
They probably wanted her to lose some faith. They probably
wanted upset the wrestlers, and they also wanted her to think,
these guys, we're just not ready. The younger guys aren't
ready to take over yet. You know, we got to
stick with Jeff Jarrett, got to stick with you know,
the thirty five plus club or the forty plus club.

Speaker 4 (01:08:49):
Other think Tom is kicking down on them. I mean,
she's pretty clear to me.

Speaker 3 (01:08:53):
But yeah, and seriously, that that Jarrett nash promo, I
mean I asked get and I'm not asking it rhetorically
or facetiously. What was that about? I don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:09:07):
I don't know, except for it was about some huge
e guays and the guy and Kevin Nashby and not
clearly he's not happy with whatever the amount attention he's getting,
and that, you know, two guys that didn't keep up either,
and they're thinking we'll do a work shoot and pulled
back the curtain and and they didn't even bother to

(01:09:28):
make it coherent this time. So it's just, you know,
this is the kind of the same old thing. Who's
gonna take control of the company and and all that.
It's like they'll win your wrestling matches, So who's gonna
take control of what company?

Speaker 3 (01:09:39):
I know? And that's it's like, you know, I say,
there's a tell.

Speaker 6 (01:09:42):
It's like.

Speaker 3 (01:09:45):
It's the number of tells in here about what is
fundamentally at the court rung with TNA. It was just
a stonding on this one show. Yeah, it's just weird, weird, weird,
you know that?

Speaker 4 (01:09:59):
And that we didn't talked abo that age of meaning, oh,
go ahead, lets lay up the matches. You know, why
weren't you you know, why were you throwing cysts? And
they all like that you just don't understand. And she's like, well,
I'm gonna what I did. I did it for the company.
It's gonna be great, Okay, thanks for explaining God, And

(01:10:19):
then you know, I don't know, I really I didn't
like that. I didn't like the phony camera, you know,
getting caught. And then they closed the doors.

Speaker 6 (01:10:26):
They do that.

Speaker 4 (01:10:31):
Accepted this the owner of the thing, because the owners
are just gonna turn it off. We're not gonna have it.

Speaker 3 (01:10:36):
Yeah, you know, you know, so I don't that because
at least I think the spirit of what they're trying
to do makes sense, which is but they need to
explain it, and and they and I'm just I'm a
stickler for this kind of thing. I'm OCD when it
comes to this kind of thing. There should be an
explanation that's offered to viewers who this roaming reporter is,
who this roving camera is what? And and all you

(01:10:57):
have to do is say Mike to Nametag and say
Dixie Carter and Eric Fischoff have authorized a new rovering
reporter and his job is to go backstage and try
to get stories for us on this show to enhance,
you know, to enhance what or to convey to you
what's going on behind the scenes and enhance it. And
you can just you know, kind of hint around sometimes
ooh that that seemed a little like he was pushing

(01:11:20):
it a little better, or oh, you know, he get
or Dixie says, you know, we've authorized this guy. I
want I want all access to what goes on behind
the scenes, short of it, short of the showers. I
want access to what's going on behind the scenes, and
everybody knows it, and everybody needs to be on guard
all the time. And we think it'll make the show
better to get fans behind the scenes view. There's a
way to do that and tell that story to explain
why there's this guy secretly filming people all over the place.

(01:11:42):
I like the concept. I'm not with the execution one
hundred percent, but I think you do need to establish
it and explain who this guy is and that Dixie
authorized him, and you're writ verse he shouldn't be secretly
filming Dixie, but I think there's a lot of people
in that room who wanted to get a little camera time.

Speaker 14 (01:11:58):
Oh, I have no doubt that out.

Speaker 4 (01:12:00):
And you know, and the other thing is there's no
explaining what the hell they were doing. You know, those
are my brother you know, those are my brothers there
explaining about why that the A just went out and
lost controls that throwing punches and all that. You know,
she should have fired them. But I mean, I don't know,
didn't make any sense.

Speaker 3 (01:12:18):
All right, Bruce, Well we'll wrap up the VP after
show there, we'll come back. I have a few more
impact questions with Bruce minchelladios show kind of big picture
of things to talk about, and then uh and then
we'll go into the latest on WWE and current events.
And then we'll also in part two this weekend cover
listener questions. So thanks to all the VIP members for
joining us for this episode. Once again on behalf of

(01:12:38):
Bruce Mitchel. This is Wade Keller signing out.

Speaker 1 (01:12:42):
Anytime you're watching ww E Raw or SmackDown or AW
Dynamite in particular, send us an email if you've got
thoughts on the show or a topic you want us
to address, or a question for us Wade Keller Podcast
at PW torch dot com. Wade Keller Podcast at PETW
torch dot com. If there's anything else going on in
pro wrestling that you want us to address on our
main podcast during our mailbank segments, that same email applies

(01:13:06):
Wadekeller Podcast at PW torch dot com. We invite that interaction.
Let us know what you think of what we're saying,
and let us know what you want us to talk
about and ask us specific questions. Wadekeller Podcast at PW
torch dot com.

Speaker 6 (01:13:21):
No host, you are listening to the PW Torch Live cast.
I have p TOW Torch assistant editor James Caldwell hosting
today on Monday, July twenty sixth, joined by Torch senior
columnist Bruce Mitchell Brinson. I believe you have something to

(01:13:42):
say at the top of the show.

Speaker 4 (01:13:44):
Yeah, I'm thinking about these shows, and here's what I'm thinking.
Let's just go ahead and assume that everybody's doing okay today,
so we don't have to ask them how they're doing,
and they don't have to tell us how we're doing.
Because you're not doing okay. You can speak up and
if you do that, then I'll promise that I will
give any long winded answer just to take up all
the time, and James will promise that he's not gonna
repeat my answers. So that way I have more callers

(01:14:05):
then and have a smoother you know, and have a
smoother show. So I think we can all go for that.
What do you think, Jess?

Speaker 6 (01:14:11):
I think so it's just almost it's part of a
standard greeting on this show to ask and call her
how to do it. I kind of want to know
where they're coming from, if they had a good day
or a bad day, or if they're having.

Speaker 4 (01:14:25):
The show and I'm not on it. And you know,
some traditions are beautiful and then some traditions, you know,
there's there's time for change. So I'm just I'm thinking
that we could get a few more callers in and
you know, if someone's having a bad day on an
unusual day, then I think they should speak up. But
if not, we should just get right to it and
ask the questions and made the comments and and roll

(01:14:47):
through all our way to Monday night.

Speaker 6 (01:14:48):
Row there you go, uh Rod. Today, Brice, we've got
the follow up to teen Cena versus Team Nexus announced
for Summers playing last week, Orton shame his height for
Summer Slam. They haven't really announced anything for it tonight's show.
But what are kind of your expectations for Rockday.

Speaker 4 (01:15:08):
Well, you know, one thing, this is the law after
one of the best episodic episodes of RAW I can
ever be conceiting. I think that was the show last
Monday that really lived up to what they tried to do,
which is give you a little mini movie or give
you a little episode of TV that that gives you
ups and downs and keeps you interested and gets over
the characters and the stories, and then also drives you

(01:15:29):
to buy something, you know, to buy the main event
on pain of view, And I think for SummerSlam, and
I think I did a really good job of it
last week. So I don't think I started to live
up to and whether this was a one off anomaly
of whether this is a direction you know, they could
really sustain. I suspect we'll see John Cena have some
trouble to you think some of his teammates in Line

(01:15:49):
like Edge and Chris Jericho, you know, for two and
then there's always a challenge of what do you do
with Nexus. Besides, Wadevant makes a speech and guys, you know,
kick off somebody and beat them up. So can they
can they give us some development and the Mets's characters
that you know, it'll be interesting show, I sput.

Speaker 6 (01:16:11):
I'm interested to see it as well. I mean, I
suspect either this week or the following week or the
last week before summer splin, maybe they'll do what they
did the house show on Friday that I was at,
which was Sina against you know, insert opponent and a
lumberjag match with the Nexus ring side, And I thought
they actually did a lot of interesting stuff with that.
That main event on Friday at the house show is

(01:16:32):
that with Sina and Seamus and Nexus ring side. It
was it was just a very interesting story they told
during that match. And of course they have the tease
of Sina's going the ballots and Nexus runs in interferes
during the STF spot. So I imagine that that's one
way to use them without having to make it seem
like it's a repeat or its we don't have anything

(01:16:53):
to do for them, So, like you said, we're either
do a speech or do it attag. I like the
idea of te's intention that a good way to play
up towards SummerSlam. I don't know how they topped last
week's show. I mean, last week was a very hot show.
Like you said, BRUS is very strong on content. I
mean they haven't, like I said, they haven't anounced any matches.

(01:17:13):
I'm not sure what direction they're gonna go with in
terms of what they're gonna give away. That's an interesting
story to follow us to night, is what do they
do following up on last week's show. I mean, the
almost only last week's show was the lead in the SummerSlam.
There was just the hit that crescendo and you're ready
to order that pay per view and now it's sort
of well, you have three more weeks in TV. We're
not really sure exactly what the rest of the card

(01:17:35):
is gonna look like it's going to fill that in.
I mean, verus, what else can I do with the
rest of this card with seven other seven of their Oh,
I wouldn't say seven top stars. Get Callee in there.
Even teams, know, what do you do with this mid
card from Raw for SummerSlam?

Speaker 4 (01:17:52):
Well you still have you know, you have Randy Orton
versus seamless. That's a new matchup to put some peat
on one way or the other, and the seamous gets
to you know, gets to Randy Orton. Usually they do,
you know, usually do and fans know this. If the
baby Face gets beaten down, the bay Face is gonna
do well at the pay per view, so you know,
it's a little bit of a revenge.

Speaker 6 (01:18:13):
Fat to there.

Speaker 4 (01:18:13):
And then I think, you know, two hours of I
really do see two hours of Edge and Jericho cannot
be trusted and go to that and then usually the
last week before the big pay per views, before SummerSlam,
before will WrestleMania, that kind of thing for Oral Rumble
is something of a recap show where they just get
everybody and and get the points again. They don't have

(01:18:35):
any huge developments at the end, so this is this
is one where they can they can put a little
entry again and get through. I think they're all right.
I mean I think that I don't think it's a
bad I don't think that we'll see but I don't
think necessarily they peak too soon. I think they got
you know, they got the teams together. Now they can
play out some intrigue and then they can get everybody

(01:18:56):
on the same page for the big fight on a
Summer I will suspect next week's show is with a
seven on seven brawl. It's not that creative, but it's
definitely what Hammer hunts. The point of this is what
Summer Slam's money matches about. So I would see some
of the other matches getting a little time, some of
the other law matches, but those two matches of course

(01:19:16):
getting the most top.

Speaker 6 (01:19:18):
Right, and I imagine that, Yeah, we'll probably get Shamas
involving it somehow. That's allways, seems to be the The
idea before the Royal Rumble is that everybody brawling as
you go off the air on Raw. So I'm gonna
be surprised to see that and sort of backs up
what you said, Bruce, vote the money match. I know
you love our p tw B George Poles, Bruce, so
I'm gonna go ahead and introduce one from this weekend.

(01:19:40):
We asked which the three match.

Speaker 4 (01:19:41):
James, that's that's good, and so we posted a.

Speaker 6 (01:19:46):
Poll on which the three matches and now so far
do you consider the top match of SummerSlam, and seventy
percent voted Scena versus you know, Team Scena Verus Team
Xes and twenty three percent which went seamous for is
Raindy Organ and eight percent to Kanaan Ray because it's SmackDown.
So seventy percent of Towards readers in this poll voted
for Sen and Nexus as a top match.

Speaker 4 (01:20:08):
So I agree with you.

Speaker 6 (01:20:09):
Bruce said that should be the emphasis of this build
up the next couple of weeks and make it about
that matchup it's been. It'll be the culmination of you know,
eight weeks that you know, by that time, about twelve
weeks of TV and evolving Nexus. It only makes sense
to blow.

Speaker 3 (01:20:24):
It off at SummerSlam.

Speaker 6 (01:20:25):
But I mean, assuming that they do blow it off,
they could extend it even further, Uh, depending on some
you know, raw GM items and the Mystery GM and
other sorts of items that they could kind of and
incorporate into that storyline. So it's been kind of interesting
to see what they do on TV. We want to
go ahead and give out the number to call if
we're want to join us on the live cast today

(01:20:47):
Talk Raw Talk T and A. They're currently taping this
Thursday's episode of Impact right now in Orlando. We'll talk
about T and AH want to talk them. The number
to call is six four to six seven two one eight. Bruce,
let's go ahead and tick our first caller today. Let's
go to the five six to one area code five

(01:21:08):
six to one. Welcome the show. Please stay streaming while you're.

Speaker 4 (01:21:11):
From That says Matt from Florida as a going good night.

Speaker 6 (01:21:15):
What's going on? What do you have for us today?

Speaker 17 (01:21:18):
On last week's show, when they had John Teina's team
come out with saw his super World Heavyweight Championship WrestleMania
main event guys to take on the lowly rookies who
haven't even had.

Speaker 11 (01:21:30):
A single match.

Speaker 3 (01:21:32):
I kind of have a problem with that.

Speaker 6 (01:21:33):
What do you guys think about that? Bruce?

Speaker 4 (01:21:36):
Has it seemed? What's your problem with them?

Speaker 3 (01:21:41):
Uh? It's very one sided.

Speaker 18 (01:21:43):
I mean you have a bunch of like established main
eventors going up against a bunch of rookies who you know,
look really green in the rain. I mean it just
doesn't seem like a much of a fight when onm
you know, like the good guys don't really seem at risk.
They seem like they have more than the advantage in
the whole situation.

Speaker 4 (01:22:00):
Well, I mean think it built up that the nexus
guys work in a gang and beat people up, and
they've been a physical threat to everybody, including you know,
Vincent Man, including John Cna and all the way down
the line. I think it is very smart. One thing
we didn't kind of say, but I think they've done
something that no one's done in years and years in
which is in w W, which is protect new guys

(01:22:23):
and not show that they're green in the ring until
you paid your money in the main event. And that's
something you know, as a well informed consumer, you ought to,
you know, you got to keep in mind. But can
they set up a match to protect, you know, the
protect the integrity of the match, even with some guys
and there's some guys in the and in that Nexus
team that aren't very good wrestler yet, and that's a

(01:22:45):
real problem. As far as I don't think this, I
mean I think that they have kicked enough ass that
they should be taken serious, and they clearly are taken
serious as a point where you know, John Cena was
was believably poor assed into you know it would kind
of rationally giving up. So you know, I don't really
buy that it's a bunch of weak you know, they

(01:23:06):
kept next strong. So you know, I don't think it's
a bunch of weak things, but I think what your point.
You know, in real life, it's true that these are
these aren't guys that we can trust. And you know
we've seen and our known main events qualities. But WD
has always made in the last several years, has made
the mistake on the wrong on the other it's not
the wrong side on the other side, where they haven't

(01:23:27):
let guys into the main event until they've proven they
can really work that main event style and they've made
all the credits happy before they get there. And I
think this is this is what you do when you
want fresh matchups and you and some guys are gonna
sing and some guys are gonna swim, and we'll see
how it goes. That that Mark Henry Way Barrett match
was not was not a good good sign. I'll say

(01:23:50):
that because the way they need really Way Barrett to
shine and he did not shine in that match with
Mark Henry and.

Speaker 6 (01:23:57):
Magic kind of add to what Bruce I think went
away sort of combat that that thought of you know,
if you said them, you look at it. You have
guys who combined for about you know, forty world championships
versus Nexus, who have no titles to their name in
ww Ceah, it does team lobside it, but you have
that idea of while there's tension amongst the ranks, like
Bruce talked about at the top of the show, where

(01:24:18):
Edge and Jericho, for acting, Abe trusted Contina trust them.
I mean, it's been one of those things where they
can defeat themselves and that kind of sets up the
intrigue of the matchup sort of even besides, but I think,
like Bruce, w b has done a really good job
of making Nexus team like a threat, you know, not
really individually but collectively, and that's been the strength of
the storyline is making you believe that seven very green

(01:24:42):
rookies are a threat to your top star and that's
been one of the strengths of this that has sort
of covered for the idea. Like it said Matt that
if you look at it, it looks very lopsided. But
I think WWE's marketing has been I think it's been strong.
It's been close to very strong at times with how
they've made Nexus a threat. So, Maggie, any other a

(01:25:03):
question or follow up?

Speaker 18 (01:25:05):
Yeah, I agree that w he's done a good job
at like holding back Nexus and making people pay for
the matches building it up.

Speaker 6 (01:25:13):
But like the whole thing with Nexus electively.

Speaker 18 (01:25:16):
Being strong, I think that's where they that's what made
them scary.

Speaker 3 (01:25:19):
You get seven guys all being together taking.

Speaker 18 (01:25:20):
On one or two guys at once.

Speaker 3 (01:25:22):
But now that it's an even seven on seven, I
just think it's lopside.

Speaker 18 (01:25:25):
You have all these established, like you said, like world
title contenders, and I think Nexus this doesn't look like
they stand it and a chance.

Speaker 6 (01:25:33):
Against those guys.

Speaker 18 (01:25:34):
It's like thin give god Zilla versus you know, the Munchkins.

Speaker 3 (01:25:40):
Yeah, I see your point.

Speaker 6 (01:25:41):
Yeah, I definitely do. I think that's why you know,
w B has three weeks of TV coming up to
where they can they can sort of shift that balance
back to Okay, Nexus still looks like a threat and
they still look credible even if you sit there and
think about they really should have no chance based on
a lack of experience. But that's Dubby's job. Make you
forget about that, you know, uh, to make the consumer

(01:26:03):
forget about that and think that the sides are even.
That Sina is in jeopardy either buy Nexus or by
his own selection on the teammates. So I think that's
when that storytelling is strong and they can get away
with some things like this that don't look even on paper,
but still get people interested enough to spend money to
see that match. So I think they're doing an okay

(01:26:24):
job with that. First, everything else to Dad on.

Speaker 4 (01:26:28):
Just you seem on free TV, nexts Kicking ass, and
the ideas you'll pay to see the team Sina kicks there.
So that's that's a pretty basically pro rustling way of marketing.

Speaker 6 (01:26:43):
Yeah, exactly, Yeah, I guess I.

Speaker 18 (01:26:47):
Was just gonna say, I guess I just don't see
that the heroes are really in Jeopardy.

Speaker 3 (01:26:50):
It seems like Nexus is in Jeopardy now. It seems
like the tables have turned way too much.

Speaker 6 (01:26:54):
So I don't know, no kind of way back, I'm sure.
And they have been kind of hinted that the end
of braw on Monday was Terry Waller and rejected that line.
You know what's next is gonna do when they when
they regroup and retreat. So I imagine it'll swing more
toward the Baby Faces and Jeopardy probably this week, definitely,

(01:27:15):
and then we'll see how that plays out the next
couple of weeks, but I imagine they'll go back to
reinforcing nexus uh on the on tonight show.

Speaker 11 (01:27:28):
I'll let's you get to other calls.

Speaker 4 (01:27:29):
Have a good name, all right, we appreciate that call.

Speaker 6 (01:27:32):
Matt. You're listening to.

Speaker 4 (01:27:37):
James does not care care how well you're doing.

Speaker 6 (01:27:39):
So we're right to the question, I care about everyone, Bruce,
come on, yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:27:46):
Yeah, if you get right to the questions, if you
about everybody.

Speaker 6 (01:27:51):
I care about people's time.

Speaker 3 (01:27:52):
I get what you're saying.

Speaker 6 (01:27:53):
All right, there you go. You're listening to the PW
Torch Live Cast. This is p B Torch Assistant editor
James Caldwell honestly with Bruce Mitchell. You want to jump
in the phone lines and get in line. We have
two people on hold, so you can be third in
line for the next forty five minutes of the show.
Number to call A six four six.

Speaker 4 (01:28:15):
Eight.

Speaker 19 (01:28:21):
Longing for some nostalgia or maybe you want to learn
some wrestling history, don't miss the nineties Past cast Every
Friday on the PW Torch Daily Cast feed, Alex and
Patrick will transport you thirty years into the past by
taking you through the Torch issue from that very week
follow news from the WWF and WCW and all the

(01:28:41):
happenings from across the wrestling industry in real time, as
The Torch reported it thirty years ago. That's the nineties
Pass cast every Friday on the PW Torch Daily Cast Feed.

Speaker 6 (01:29:01):
Let's go to the four two four area code. Welcome
the show.

Speaker 11 (01:29:05):
Please stay.

Speaker 6 (01:29:05):
You na't know where you're from.

Speaker 11 (01:29:07):
This is Brian from California, Los Angeles.

Speaker 6 (01:29:09):
Hey Brian, what do you have for a say?

Speaker 11 (01:29:12):
You know, the Nexus ego? A lot of people say
that they built up Nexus as to be as this
real big hill group and oppose a thread. And I
know remember Arn Anderson making a thread, I mean making
that the promo about Nexus, and I just doesn't don't see.
I see them attacking Sena, but it doesn't seem like

(01:29:33):
they're really trying to take over because they're just going
out to scene it. They haven't. They come out of
wrestling here and they just really haven't put somebody out.

Speaker 6 (01:29:41):
I know, Ray Missterial, I know.

Speaker 11 (01:29:42):
Who's supposed to go out for as little as a
knee injury or something. Why didn't they have Nexus actually
put somebody out, put a huge superstar out to really
make it seem like going into the pay for you well,
you know they're doing damage because it just seems like
they're few with John Cena.

Speaker 4 (01:29:58):
Then they didn't go they didn't tack EDG.

Speaker 11 (01:30:00):
They ever really attacked or it just seemed like their feuding.
We've seen it, and I think that they're gonna bring
it to a close too early as Simbler flans, because
they really haven't done nothing to in my opinion, to
make it seem like they're really a real big heal
group like the nWo, and like the nWo came in
and just took over, but we didn't think on that.

Speaker 4 (01:30:22):
Well for one thing, you know, the single the nWo,
there are some different similarities, but there was a real
you know, talent war going on where there were where
WWE really couldn't afford to keep a lot of their
top stars, you know, in comparison to what w c
W the TAM was willing to pay them. So ww
knew that they could get more w G stars to

(01:30:44):
continue that storyline and really just before where they went
too far and they got too many. But you know,
you know they've got you know, Nexus can only go
so far. I mean they can't just keep adding and
adding to seven. You know, they're gonna have a lot
the hard time figuring out what to do with seven
of them. I think the last three or four that
they're not all that confident and they're gonna get their
butts kicked and kind of go back to you know,

(01:31:05):
go back to Florida before this is over with. Uh,
there's still time, you know, there's still time for nexts
to do that, to pick somebody, particularly someone I don't
think there's gonna be Ray, but but life, because Ray
works with injuries when he thinks it's gonna you know,
when it thinks it's gonna benefit his pocket. But but
there's still time for them to you know, pick somebody
out in the pack and beat them down before the
pay per view, and maybe even maybe even at the

(01:31:26):
pay per view will be a you know, some sort
of seven on six handicap match or or something, or
an intrigue of who's gonna take another person's place, and
that you know, perhaps I don't see, you know, Bret
Hart's not gonna do all that much in a match,
so maybe he gets his butt kicked in the next
couple of weeks.

Speaker 6 (01:31:41):
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:31:41):
But that that possibly of what the call is talking
about still definitely there, right.

Speaker 6 (01:31:46):
And they did take out Vincent man. I mean he's
the biggest star of them all, right, Bruce, So that's
gonna that doesn't account for something.

Speaker 11 (01:31:54):
I mean, they've taken up some people, So yeah, okay,
And I know one last question is there are they
ever gonna has let Doff Ziggler hold the inner kind
of the title?

Speaker 6 (01:32:04):
Are they?

Speaker 11 (01:32:04):
Are they ever gonna let him get close? Because it
seems he performs well in the ring. He has the look,
you know, he seems like he has the rest of
in ability. I don't know why won't they just pushed
him over because I think he could be a main
eventor I don't know how his talking skills are, but
he has that look. The sleeper hold is really he's
making a sneek sleeper hole look good. Why don't you

(01:32:27):
think they have to put.

Speaker 6 (01:32:28):
Him over again? Yeah, Bruce, which take sake.

Speaker 4 (01:32:31):
I think there's something, you know, I think there's something
Indolf the Ziggler, and you know, I agree with that,
and I think that they kind of he suffered from
that that thing of this A man sets the tone
for the locker room where one week you're in, one
week you're out. And if you look the wrong way,
say the wrong thing, and the in the back and
you fall asleep at the wrong time, or you know,
you do something backstage that doesn't doesn't hit hit the culture,

(01:32:55):
or you make a real mistake, then your push has changed.
And he is kind of yo yo back and forth
with that sort of thing. And I think that they
would do well with Dolph Ziggler and any of them
to do with they've them with Shamous to do what
they've done with Naxus, or even guys in the you know,
in the mid cart, which is if you're going to
push them, make the decision, stay on them so they
do the right thing, and remember that they're learning and

(01:33:17):
that they're you know, just because you ask a lot
of questions. Not dot Zigler heard this about. But the
guy is the guy that asked a lot of questions,
the guy in the doghouse, and he's he's pretty new.
Doesn't mean that they you know, he doesn't mean they
need to be punished. They need to be taught. And
that's what I said with Ziggler. But yeah, I mean
I think Sigger were talking a little bit. I think
they ought to really work on that with him. But
he's got a good look. He's he's a decent enough

(01:33:39):
wrestler that I could see them going on with him.
And yeah, it's kind of that thing back and forth.
You're waiting for him to get that Intercontinental title, and
they made you think he was going to get that
even as a heel, and then they pushed away from it.
So I don't know, it depends on what side of
the bed that's a man doesn't.

Speaker 6 (01:33:56):
Wake up on, doesn't wake up on.

Speaker 4 (01:33:59):
Yeah, uh, you know what, you know, he's he's a
lake not to you know, twenty one hours out of
the day, So that's true.

Speaker 6 (01:34:06):
Yeah, yeah, that doesn't makes a lot of sense. Yeah,
I mean with Dolph, it's it's, uh gosh, it seems
like it's been about a year where he's just been
on that cusp of I mean, he had that program
with John Morrison on SmackDown. It seemed like he was
in the Intercontinental title. They never put the trigger on it.
It just always seems like he's been there on on

(01:34:28):
the cusps from breaking through. It's just a matter of time,
you know, Like you said first, it's it's it's a
lot of different things that we don't see on TV
kind of falling in place. It's it's timing, it's the
right opponent. I mean, right now w D is behind
Koche Kingston as an intercontinental champion. You know they can

(01:34:48):
they I would like to see Dolph have the belt
and have Cofee chase him. I think there's money, and
I mean SmackDown in itself, I mean is not you know,
smack Down a SmackDown. There's not a big platform, you know,
gonna make a lot of money, especially selling a pay
per view. I mean, it just seems like SmackDown is
such a secondary show, even more so than I mean

(01:35:09):
probably in the last five years. It's become such a
secondary show that it's hard to make a lot of
money with that brand in terms of selling a pay
per view. But if you build a strong program around
Kofe chasing Dolf for that belt, kind of in the
same vein as Drew McIntyre and kofee and their program
with Teddy Long, you know, it could help boost some

(01:35:30):
interest in a pay per view. So I like to
see Dolf with a belt. I'd like to see Koche
chase him. I mean, it be a very very interesting story.
After we saw McIntyre and kofe go back and forth.
I'd like to see kofee and Drew go back and
forth on Smackdoones, so that that'd be an interesting story
to see you play out. First, you mentioned McMahon and
I've kind of wanted to bring this up. During say

(01:35:51):
live cast, The Connecticut Post had a very lengthy report
on Vincent Mannon today. He had a lot of quote
let's kind of talking about his future in WWE as
far as the head of the company, talked a lot
about some of the health and wellness issues that have
followed around w W for twenty five years. What was

(01:36:11):
your take on that interview and some of the quotes
that mcmaon had in that story.

Speaker 4 (01:36:17):
I gave that story I think about a c I mean,
it touched on a lot of the big topics and
the controversy surrounding them. But I think that when you
are talking about the wellness policy and you just put
everything down too well, they came back with a wellness
policy because one wrestler died, that's not tell them the
whole story. And there's been a lot of wrestlers and

(01:36:39):
a lot of the time you know, there's been a
lot of wrestlers that died. I mean, there's just you
know that that's where.

Speaker 6 (01:36:43):
The table is.

Speaker 4 (01:36:45):
Harku and WW A lot of people that worked there
were part of that, and this willandse up the time
for the entire business stuff. I think that as you
get touched on good good parts, and I think those
typical this man, you know, kind of playing sharks. I'm
a nice guy, but I'm that I'm willing to do
anything for the fans, and you know, it's just the

(01:37:06):
kind of exaggeration when I play on TV and people
kind of think that way. And I did like that
they they took his SHUC routine and contrasted with the
testimony that he gave in front of irrestional investigators, where
there's a lot more combative. So I think, you know,
I think you've got a fairly decent idea of what thing, man,

(01:37:27):
it's about. But I still see that thing where it's
just kind of like that's still to the thing of
the serious issues in professional wrestling don't count because professional
wrestlers are the ones who who come from that. And
you know, there was there wasn't a there wasn't any
you know, debity has a wellness policy. There's no comparing
it to other major league sports where it does not

(01:37:49):
hold up there. It doesn't compare very well to those stuff.
Like I said, I give, I give the story about
a sea, and Vince was, this is charming and this
does seem pretty charming in the in the article, which
is what.

Speaker 6 (01:38:02):
You can kind of get that sense to talking about
his his background and it's humble upbringing it. It was
sort of a from the lenin Ate Man playbooks to
the Senate Senate race, talking about you know, w W
win bankrupt and they rose to become a global phenomenon
and and sort of it's from that same playbook of
rags riches and you know, as you know, the article

(01:38:23):
to me, it was a lot of what we've seen before,
especially from McMahon and he's in denial boat. But it's
sort of it's a disarming thing where you almost sit
there and if you don't know the history, and if
you don't know the backstory, you kind of think, oh, okay,
that sounds okay. You know, that's I can accept that
because there's so many ways that he tries to word, uh,

(01:38:46):
were things that if you if you know the history.
You know that he is trying to be deceptive. And
that's what I took away from a lot of those quotes.
I mean, he had the quotes on you know, I
competing with with Ted Turner and w CW, on you
know Kristin Wall. He had what I thought was a
really alarming quote. There's no real alarmed. It's not the
right word. It's sort of a myth leading quote on well,

(01:39:07):
there's there's no way you could fault w E or
or pro wrestling for what happened with Ben Wall, And
there's there's so much research out there that it's completely
contradict anything a man said in that quote. And it
was I mean, what was your action when you saw
a lot of what the man said, kind of in
denial mode about the health issues in wrestling, especially in

(01:39:28):
w EE.

Speaker 4 (01:39:29):
Whatever he really thinks about that, You're not going to
get him saying that. And they did use Dave Milson,
The Wrestling Deserver to counter that and counter that m
up pretty effectively. That's about the best you're going to say,
you know, just a man's praising his own honesty and
talking about what a nice guy is. Those are not
two things that he's necessarily known for by everyone around him.
It's knowing to be in a tent of grandfather.

Speaker 13 (01:39:50):
I do know that, but.

Speaker 4 (01:39:53):
You know so, But yeah, I mean it's it comes
from you know, That's how politicians were too. They have there,
they have their points to get over, and they're going
to try to get out, particularly one who's the stage
managed and as and as not. It does not speak,
you know from the cop the way Linement Man is.

(01:40:14):
I mean, Lionardy Man is managed by her handlers, and
she's she says what they say and doesn't say anything
else because she's got a lot of you know, she's
got a lot of places where she could get into trouble.
But you know, I don't expect. I don't. I don't
think that I expected Vincent Man. That's what Vincent Man
really thinks. I think the visit man thought that Monday night.

(01:40:36):
I think he's thought that all along. I think I
think the celebration when they found out that, you know,
when they found out that it was testosterone, you know,
you know, sixty times the amount of testosterone and Kristunwst's
body and it wasn't a steroid. They consider that not
a steroid kind of tells you what they were coming from.
They're just wanting to be left off the post the
entire you know, the entire time, and visit man probably

(01:40:58):
does think it was just a mail man. They's had
nothing to do with him because he works twenty four
hours a day, said, you know, twenty three hours a day,
seven days a week, and it doesn't bother him and
he specs that out of his wrestles so or it
doesn't care. I mean this a man's not sitting around
thinking about the blood on his hands, and honestly he's not.
And that's he's thinking about how how he can make

(01:41:20):
more money for his company and he's not working. He's not.
You know, if Eddie Gare and Daiza would not have
been a wellness poss I mean, it might have been
because something was gonna happen if they continued along on
that path. But it's the changes have enforced on me
man enforced on that company. And that's that's how it is.

(01:41:41):
And you know, they're just they're dishonest, they're disidienuous when
they say that. You know, they're looking out for people
and they've evolved, they're involved. You know, they've just been
forced them some things that cost them some money and
they don't like it. But they play in the you know,
they play in a bigger field.

Speaker 6 (01:41:54):
Now.

Speaker 4 (01:41:55):
They want to be mainstream, and she wants to be
She wants to be the Senator from Connecticut. So the
stuff is coming up.

Speaker 6 (01:42:01):
Yeah, they talks around that word evolve. I mean, I'm
not even surely understand what that entails of their company.
I think Dave Melter had a really good quote in
there about this company is more reactive than proactive. I mean,
like I said, reason, it's more of a it was
a force change than something that just naturally happened.

Speaker 3 (01:42:22):
And you know, like you just hit, it was a thing.

Speaker 6 (01:42:25):
Where they anticipated that we need to change the business model.
If we're gonna be taken seriously, if we're gonna combat
this economy crashing, if we're going to find sponsors like
a seven eleven, like a Burger King, like a Manna
Tell a toy deal, that's gonna be I mean, that's
gonna be a big money maker for them with this
entire new toy line. So you know, it was sort
of a reactive change to the environment changing around them. So,

(01:42:49):
I mean, there's this whole you know, evolving and we're
looking out for the best interests of our talent. It
just seems so disingenuous with the history of this company.
So anyways, let's go back to the phone lines. Let's
go to the seven three area code. Seven oh three.
Welcome to show, Please stay s and where you're from.

Speaker 20 (01:43:09):
Oh hey JMJ.

Speaker 3 (01:43:10):
Bruce Larry from Atlanta as if you call to go.

Speaker 7 (01:43:15):
There was someone who was really expressing concern about how
Nexus would match up with these raw raw superstars seven
on seven and that it looks lopsided.

Speaker 20 (01:43:25):
But I mean there're, like, like Bruce mentioned, there's there's
lots of time to sort of create reasons for Nexus
to look dominant. And I mean, you know, everyone got
beat up, but you can easily just say, okay, everyone
got beat up by Nexus, but there's you know, they
still can't trust one another and you know, and all
that kind of thing, so you can you can stow
the seeds of discontent among that a big bunch of

(01:43:48):
egos on that team and then.

Speaker 7 (01:43:50):
Make it look like they can't cooperate or what have
you exactly.

Speaker 6 (01:43:54):
I imagine that'll be one one of the main stories
along with you know, sort of access, retreating and regrouping
if raps perraps trying to pick off you know, one
member at a time over the next couple of weeks.
So yeah, I mean that'll will probably be one of
those main stories on the next couple of weeks of TV.

Speaker 1 (01:44:14):
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Speaker 6 (01:44:53):
Did you have a question or in your comment?

Speaker 1 (01:44:57):
Yeah?

Speaker 20 (01:44:57):
Sure, well sort of a little that and I apologize
because I'm sure have asked this, maybe like several months
ago on the live cast. But you know, it seems
like WWE, more often than not right now is really
firing on all cylinders and obviously contrasted with TNA, they're
gonna look a lot better in terms of pushing young
talent and really putting new people into the mix.

Speaker 7 (01:45:17):
So like, who do you guys know.

Speaker 20 (01:45:19):
Who's more responsible sort of for for you know, getting
a lot more of these new names in the limelight
so far.

Speaker 6 (01:45:28):
What's your take?

Speaker 4 (01:45:28):
Yeah, Yeah, I think it's just a man. I mean,
I think it's I think it's the same team. But
I just think that you know, Shaw, Shawn, Michael's retired,
and you know all the guys that Tripley's about and
all the rest of those guys, And I think that
you could kind of see that one week a few
months ago, well this a man came out on television
and said, we're we're listening to the fans and we're
going to you know, they have to, and we're going

(01:45:51):
to start pushing new acts. About that time, Seamus came up,
and they didn't back off of Seamous and they haven't
really bad. They sort of back off on Drew mact
I take in fact, that they've really tried some some
different approaches and some different people because they basically had to.
And the one thing was that man is when he's
put in a corner and he has to do something
and he has to change or he has to he

(01:46:13):
has to bring in something he doesn't like, whether it's
you know, the left Post the side of Bret Hart
and Shawn Michaels to be its main eventors, or going
more to a more adult content and more Easton w
like content, UH to combat in the n w O.
Whatever it is that he has to do, he will
change and he will go for it. So, you know,

(01:46:34):
one of the frustrating things of watching this is that.
And I think also that that that Triple H liked
Shamus and life, his attitude and like the type of
russo that he is. I think I'm sure help you know,
helped like push them in particular. So I really I
don't think there's like one member of the writing team
or Michael Hayes or somebody that says, you know, we
got to do it and got in his ear. I

(01:46:55):
think that McMahon went about as far as he was
going to go with the with uh, you know, with
Randy Orton and Johnson and Triple H and hadn't went
farther than he should have, and then you know, it
really was forced him doing this and as that, but
at least has been you know, at least has been
doing it ever since, and it's made for that XTV.

(01:47:16):
But I think that, you know, I think also I
think they looked at that new cast of NFT rookies
and realized that the NXT show had had not set
them up to the starts, had made them into these
these corporate clowns that were good citizens in the locker room,
but no one was going to take seriously as and
and they kind of wrote that into the storyline. I

(01:47:36):
don't I don't think that. In fact, I'm sure that
wasn't the plan. I think that was for once realizing
they have done something right. You know, this man realized
that he's done something wrong and and tried to change
it and try to and took advantage of the momentum
that they had by having this having to come out
and do such a strong angle, and it worked, and
then they've been working off them ever since.

Speaker 20 (01:47:56):
Well, quick, quick, quick follow up on that, Bruce hand James.
You know, obviously nextus is sort of a unique idea.
You can't necessarily take the season two guys.

Speaker 21 (01:48:04):
And do that all over again to make them look strong.
So I guess my last question you can put me
on hold is, you know what one season two wraps up, however,
you know, however poorly they're gonna.

Speaker 20 (01:48:15):
You know, book all that.

Speaker 7 (01:48:17):
What what do you see them possibly doing with the rookies,
not necessarily as a group, but what do you possibly
see them doing with the rookies to sort of integrate
them into the main roster and and use them effectively.

Speaker 3 (01:48:28):
I guess once NXT is over and all that goofiness
is over.

Speaker 4 (01:48:33):
Well, there's two parts of that. One of them is
the first group of of the nexus that we see
right now. By the end of the second season of NXC,
are they gonna still be seven guys together? Are they
gonna be you know, are some of them gonna be
kicked out and beaten up and taking off the roster?
Because if if they do that, and there's two or
three that you know, are assimilated into the into the

(01:48:55):
mid card, or maybe maybe way there higher than that,
they might be room for a few more of the
NXC rookies from the second season.

Speaker 6 (01:49:04):
But yeah, they can't do the same thing.

Speaker 4 (01:49:06):
And I was really disappointed that they didn't change the
approach of the second season of NXT too, because you
had the first season, whether the rookies rebelled from being
treated like children and being you know, haze like there's
some fraternity. You know, these these guys supposed to be
larger than life kick cass characters, and then you know
that you have this second season. They're out there, you know,

(01:49:28):
giving promos by giving one word and doing the oscar
of course and doing some things kind of made them
look foolish too. You know, there was one week where
they wrote this into it, but they really haven't changed
them all that much. I don't know. I don't think
they've they've looked down the line at that, and I
think that's something they need to look at. I mean,
but one thing about it is, I don't think that's
gonna be an NXT show unless they sell this to
another network in the world. You know, there's no word

(01:49:50):
that they've done that, you know, to follow up on
the third season. So I don't think they have. I
don't think they have that all figured out. I don't
think that I would be surprised even looking that far
down the lawn, and they should be looking that far
down the line.

Speaker 6 (01:50:05):
I imagine that the NXC season two guys who are
left over, who aren't sent back to Florida are going
in Up just kind of sprinkled into Raw and SmackDown.
I don't see Alan Riley taking a guy, for example,
I don't see him sort of fitting into that Nexus mold.
He's got more of an now He's got he has

(01:50:26):
a different type of heel personality than than that Nexus groups.
I like to see him on SmackDown. I like to
see Cavala on SmackDown as one of their younger baby
faces to sort of build towards the future around Percy.
Watson's more of a you know, sort of a Santino
type character. They get put on Raw. The rest of them,
I mean, you know a couple of them, you know,

(01:50:48):
I think you go back to Florida. But someone like
Husky Harrison and Joe Inning, they might fit into that
Nexus group. They have more of a sort of that
that they have that heel persona that fits Nexus more so,
you know, their candidates possibly if you want to rotate in,
if you want to send two guys off of the
Nexus grew either back to Florida or Raw or SmackDown

(01:51:09):
and sort of different roles. Then those might be two
guys to put into that Nexus crew. But I don't
anticipate a redo of Nexus for NEXTUS Part two or
a major expansion to that group. I think they'll kind
of keep it at six, seven or eight members for
however along this this program plays out.

Speaker 4 (01:51:30):
You know, a lot of depends on whether they sewing
those corporate T shirts or not. If they if they.

Speaker 6 (01:51:39):
Done it, I'll tell you what, Bruce. It was interesting
to bring that up because they were selling them at
that Raw House show on Friday for I want to
say it was twenty five bucks, and I didn't see
anyone buying them. I saw everybody buying Seena shirts. I
didn't see the Nexus shirts flying off the shelves. But
they're going for twenty that.

Speaker 3 (01:51:59):
You know.

Speaker 4 (01:51:59):
I'm glad you said that, Jameson, because I'm kind of
believe in when you got that, that's a little that's
an effective way to survey what's going on. And that's
interesting that there's no rebels buying the next To shirts.
But unless I missed my guess that was a crowd
of kids, right.

Speaker 6 (01:52:13):
Yes, everywhere, kids, families, more kids, more families everywhere.

Speaker 4 (01:52:18):
Yeah, but you're not gonna see as many. You're not
gonna see rebellious teenagers buying you know, you know, the
stands up and tough, the stand up bad guy, tough guys.
That's not the crowd much you have.

Speaker 6 (01:52:30):
Like you've talked about in the last couple of weeks
of Bruce is that they've sort of corporate rised. I'm
not sure that's a word they've they've made corporate nexus
is that big n T shirt and their own sort
of theme music. It's kind of taken away that rebellious
nature to it, and they're just sort of part of
the show now. And I think those teenagers that perhaps

(01:52:50):
they're appealing to are gonna say, I'm gonna buy this shirt.
It's it's a corporate that would be shirt. It doesn't
fit with the theme of the Nexus groups. That So
perhaps the more evidence that I kind of slid on
on Friday as a house show, they're not buying the
corporate rebels that perhaps the audience are targeting with us. Yeah,
it was interesting on Friday. Did you have another question.

Speaker 9 (01:53:12):
Or follow up.

Speaker 7 (01:53:15):
No, I just wanted to say real quick, you know,
I appreciate what.

Speaker 22 (01:53:18):
Every everyone does with the Torch and got to put
it out there. Bruce and Bruce you were my favorite
member of the Torch and I love the Bruce Mitchell
audio shows and everything you're in and of course I
love everyone else, but Bruce, I gotta give you the
extra props there.

Speaker 4 (01:53:31):
You really appreciate that. I really appreciate.

Speaker 6 (01:53:34):
No, thank you, Rant, Carl, Larry. We appreciate that we
can go ahead and transition into plugging a Torch VIP membership.
You can listen to Bruce and wait, you're a probably
and Bruce you probably aren't for about about two hours
of audio this weekend with Torch Editar Wage Keller, the
weekly Bruce Mitchell audio show that is available for Torch

(01:53:54):
VIP members every weekend, talking about the news of the
week plus listener questions that Bruce and Wade go over
and discuss in depth. If you want information on how
to sign up for towards VIP membership and get that
audio delivered to whatever method of audio listening device you have,
the informations at Pwtorch dot com, slash go VIP with

(01:54:16):
all the info on the rates and subscription plans. You
can find out how to access the Bruce Mitchell Audio
Show every weekend. Let's continue on to another call. Let's
go to be four four area code four oh four.
Welcome to the show. Please stay to name where you're from.

Speaker 7 (01:54:33):
Hey guys, this is Elliott from Atlanta.

Speaker 6 (01:54:36):
Hey, Elliott, back to Alanto. Well, what do you have
for us?

Speaker 11 (01:54:39):
Say?

Speaker 4 (01:54:40):
Just two quick things.

Speaker 6 (01:54:42):
One, I wanted to transitioning from the VIP.

Speaker 3 (01:54:45):
Plug, I checked out the the Eric Bishoff torch Talk.

Speaker 6 (01:54:50):
Man.

Speaker 3 (01:54:50):
It is awesome.

Speaker 6 (01:54:51):
It's totally worth the entire price of the VIP subscription.

Speaker 4 (01:54:55):
So I just wanted to let anyone know.

Speaker 3 (01:54:57):
To check out those torch talk their incredible insight into
the industry.

Speaker 6 (01:55:03):
Yeah, I mean the Bishop wanted to give a quick aside.
It's very fascinating because it was done. Wade recorded the
interview with Bishop about ten about ten eleven months ago
before he joined TNA with Paul Cogan. A lot of
insight on where he was in terms of his knowledge
of the current wrestling product, a lot of his thoughts

(01:55:23):
on past wrestling news. So there's a lot of great
insight in that interview, So definitely a lot with check
it out the Bruce Mitchell Audio's show you can get
access to. I think we're up to about sixteen parts
of that Bischoff Torch talk, so there's a lot of
good insights there, and go ahead with your.

Speaker 3 (01:55:40):
Question or comment.

Speaker 14 (01:55:41):
Well, the other one's not too serious, but what do
you think the name of John Cena's new faction is
going to be.

Speaker 3 (01:55:46):
Head and Shoulders?

Speaker 6 (01:55:47):
How some blue.

Speaker 8 (01:55:52):
You have a pick or a personal preference, you know,
d Wayne name.

Speaker 4 (01:55:57):
I mean, I just thought that for me. Jesus, what
do you think about when you hear that there's enough
product identification with next to the shampoo, So I guess
that the shampoo that shouldn't be some sort of conditioner,
so it's really hot.

Speaker 6 (01:56:13):
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:56:15):
Yeah, that's that's that's an alum.

Speaker 6 (01:56:19):
We appreciate that. Call Elliott. Uh yeah, Bruce, I believe
seen how this past week was pulling his Twitter followers
on what's the name of the group. So I imagine
that tonight we might get a name. And I'm not
really anticipating something original or clever. It might be corporate
and corny wick.

Speaker 4 (01:56:38):
Come on, now, come on now, James. I mean, he's
got millions of followers, doesn't me on Twitter? And someone
will come up with something and you know, I just
I just think that he cares so much about the fans.
I think that's you know, it brings them in. It's
like the it's like w W universe. It's part of
the of the seeing the fashion. By the way, I
love the fashion because you know, if it's a fire

(01:57:00):
that's tagging your garbage cans, she's not all that annoyed
by it. But if it's a gang, you know, call
the police.

Speaker 6 (01:57:08):
Yes, that that makes a huge difference. Yeah, I still
get a kick out of this. I saw this song
on some San Antonio TV show this morning where the
miz was on doing the weather and he was also
talking about moneying the bank briefcase and the the the
uninformed hosts said, uh, tell me about your your US

(01:57:29):
title belt, and then miss does the line about all
you can get a belt that K Marder, you have
the story, it's a it's a US title, US championship,
and I just and then you have Eve who's on
there too, and she talks about instead of the U
instead of the independent circuit where a lot of the
the divas are found, are you know a small handful? Now,
she says, along the uh, the sports entertainment circuit. There

(01:57:52):
are a handful of divas that can be found. So
it's just that that that that corporate.

Speaker 4 (01:57:59):
Uh you know, you know, you know, I don't have
to tell you, James, and climbing a pole is a
sport too, So just have set all into the sports
entertainment circuit.

Speaker 6 (01:58:10):
That would be an interesting uh an interesting paper, right
is if you're you're a college student, the difference between
or does that line of work include? Does sports entertainment
include that line of work? So there you go, Rus,
you just gave it an assignment to our listeners.

Speaker 4 (01:58:28):
Yeah, so much from my other career takes a lot
of James.

Speaker 6 (01:58:33):
You're welcome. Well let's go on to another phone call.

Speaker 4 (01:58:38):
Let's go to the four O.

Speaker 6 (01:58:39):
Two area code. Four oh two. Welcome to the show.
Please stay to them where you're from?

Speaker 9 (01:58:45):
Hey, this is where all Fo'm like, Ambraska.

Speaker 6 (01:58:48):
Oh real, I can't believe I didn't remember your name,
your number?

Speaker 11 (01:58:50):
But what do you have for?

Speaker 3 (01:58:52):
You're never gonna remember anything? Cry Well, one thing?

Speaker 9 (01:58:58):
Speaking of the ecty numbers and all that, uh, I'm
a little bit behind on my torch audio, but I
did just started listening to the Mitchell Vintage audio that
came out this past weekend or maybe weekend before that,
and I just wanted to give you a lot of credit.

Speaker 11 (01:59:14):
Bruce.

Speaker 9 (01:59:15):
It sounds like you must have gotten a brand new
phone or something like that since because the audio quality
was terrible.

Speaker 3 (01:59:21):
On your end.

Speaker 4 (01:59:25):
Yeah. I used to go back and forth about that,
and I actually actually have changed times. But I'm not
the most technologically give the person you'll ever find, although
do Okay, I guess now exactly that's all. I could
you hear it? I mean, was it everything? Okay? I
mean you could you.

Speaker 6 (01:59:42):
Still hear there?

Speaker 1 (01:59:43):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:59:44):
No, I could still hear it.

Speaker 4 (01:59:44):
It just it kind of made me laugh.

Speaker 9 (01:59:46):
And you know, when I first heard your audio, just
I merely felt like, I think Bruce is doing this
from a tin cans.

Speaker 4 (01:59:53):
But but you know, it took a while making all
the way down here to Mayberry.

Speaker 6 (02:00:01):
So my real question, and I.

Speaker 9 (02:00:02):
Don't know if it has been brought up tonight or not,
but I was reading the vincig Mann interview, the notes
that you put up, James, and I was reading these
specifically the part about beIN WAH and about how there's
no it's unfair to link dow Too or wrestling in
general to what happened to Ben wants. You never know

(02:00:23):
what's going on in a person's head, and so I
know this is a line they've been giving for a
long time now, as far as been a while. And
my thought is, would it be so bad if they
were to say, hey, there were things that we could
have done that we didn't know we could have done,
and we're going that now to make sure that never happens,
or would that be emitting too much guills?

Speaker 23 (02:00:50):
I'm Kelly Wells, host of pw T Talks NXT, the
longest running NXT podcast Anywhere. Join me along with Nate Lindberg,
Bruce Lee, Hazelwood and special guests live every Tuesday night,
just minutes after NXT, where we cover the good, the bad,
and the ugly on the way to becoming a star
in WWE. Check us out live on YouTube or stream

(02:01:11):
later wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 6 (02:01:21):
First, that.

Speaker 4 (02:01:23):
You know, number one, I mean, it's not like a
lot of the issues that got brought up in that
trial between the steroids paintills, you know, the sect of
the eternal schedule on families, the bumps, the concussions, and
we know more about concussions now than we did before,
but still that all that hadn't been brought up and

(02:01:45):
kind of ignored. So I don't know that just saying hey,
we didn't know, you know, we didn't know and now
we know. That's enough. That's a better answer to what
he gives. But that's there's a lot of dishonesty in
that one too. I just you know, I think also
that McMahon is just always going to say that because
that's what he truly believes. He does. A disconnect, you know,

(02:02:06):
there's a disconnect there. And the one thing I'll say
about it is unless you are really a w W
loyalist and that those people really do exist and you know,
they came out during during the bendloss situation that summer.
But most people know better, I mean, I mean, I
mean people reading that, the people that don't watch wrestling
know better know that there was much more. You know,

(02:02:28):
know that there was there was some things connected to
wrestling that that adversely affected Christine lost no estate. There's
no you know, there's no data you can debate, you know,
The debate is how you know? Is it concussions?

Speaker 3 (02:02:41):
Is it?

Speaker 4 (02:02:42):
Is it? Is it steroid use to fosterone use? Is it,
you know, pain pills? Is it the damage that comes
from all that? Is it distress? Was there something that
made him more likely.

Speaker 3 (02:02:55):
In all that?

Speaker 13 (02:02:56):
You know?

Speaker 4 (02:02:57):
And I think I think it's everything. I think everything
there's synergy. I think you can't that is my personal opinion.
You can't just take out one thing. But I think
people see through this man on that one. So you know,
you can say, you can say it, but I don't
believe that just because he's listen, man, the king of wrestling.
You know that most people, most reasonable people are are

(02:03:18):
buying buying that as an explanation that just happened to happen,
because it doesn't just happen to happen real.

Speaker 6 (02:03:26):
Any other question or follow up on Ben Wall.

Speaker 9 (02:03:30):
So well, anoother question on Ben wat but just another
question in general, And again I don't know if this
came up or not today. Yeah, but I've been watching
DESPN and the whole fallout and all the talk about
des Brian Bryant and uh his refusal to get Haze
to put up with carrying bags. I know hazing and
you just a big part of wrestling and wrestling culture.

(02:03:53):
Has there been anyone who has flow said Nope, I'm
not going to do that. I'm not going to put
up and put over this stuff.

Speaker 3 (02:03:59):
And have they.

Speaker 6 (02:04:03):
I mean like recently or historically, I mean like sort
of and I mean gonna be had that culture with
hardcopy and J B L notorious for that. You real
do you want to know the sort of historically or
more W and E related.

Speaker 9 (02:04:20):
Historically? Really?

Speaker 6 (02:04:22):
Okay, Ruth, do you want to go ahead and take
that that azing question?

Speaker 5 (02:04:25):
Oh?

Speaker 4 (02:04:26):
Very nice.

Speaker 3 (02:04:32):
For you. I can't imagine.

Speaker 4 (02:04:34):
I can't imagine Bill Goldberg, who's got to push to
the top pretty much immediately, spent a lot of time.
I mean, he was trained to the power plant and
he probably you know, he did he did everything they
did a power plant. But he came in there, you know,
in the NFL shape. So I don't know that he
got and he was big, you know, a big guy.
I think that you know, he was the guys that
are on scholarship is what they call it sometimes that

(02:04:57):
you know, picked up to be special. I don't know that,
you know, I don't I don't know that there are
ones that do that done that. I know that the
one exactly I can give this doesn't exactly fit that.
But I can't speak to a whole lot of stories
of that. But it recently has been that that Reed Flair,

(02:05:17):
Ric Flair's son was not very good about pitching in
and doing the extra things that he needed to do
to be a part of you know, to be the
part of the team or the train of trainees. And
one of the council was in while Richie Steamboat, Rick
Steinboat's son was very good about that and listened and
and and all that. I know that story I was told,
but I can't really tell you about anybody and I

(02:05:40):
do it, you know, WWE. I mean, they can you know,
unless you really, you know, have you know, somebody's hand
on your shoulder, and you know, are a golden child.
Even if you're want of those legacies like Rotunda or
or headed, you're going to still be expected to do
that stuff. And there's really not a lot that you do.
But you're not. You didn't come from, you know, being

(02:06:02):
a big wrestling star. You didn't come from being a
big wrestling star and in the pro ranks like the
guy did with with the Cowboys, right, yeah, the Cowboys. Yeah,
the guy did with the Cowboys, and so you know,
he was a big college star, so he's got the
big head from that, and I'm sure he'll get broken down,
get broken down from it. But you know, and and
and it could be more, you know, the restless court.

(02:06:24):
It can be a lot more pressure brought on you
in the world of wrestling and w W A that
can be kept quiet and just then can the kind
of happen in and pro in the NFL. So if
someone's doing that, I think they probably get washed out
pretty quickly.

Speaker 6 (02:06:41):
You're the problem the other way. Yeah, you remember the
name of a referee who quit over Jamail's rimming backstage?
Do you remember?

Speaker 3 (02:06:50):
Uh?

Speaker 9 (02:06:51):
Do remember that?

Speaker 4 (02:06:52):
And that was more you know, I think you can
say that was more of just hazy to Finn, but
he already had the job, and that was That was
the theories that I heard. And I'm not I don't
wanna be suscipi because I don't remember them not well.
But the way I remember them is that they were
it was more than just hazing, you know, it was
something that in my opinion, was you know, abuseive So

(02:07:14):
you know, and he just quit. You know, he had
enough and he quit. And there's there's that kind of
locker room bully boy jock mentality that can go on that's,
you know, bad enough when you're seventeen or eighteen, is
not so great when the person is doing it too,
is in his thirties and you know he's huge and
you're just trying to do you know. So, I mean,
there's always two sides to those stories. And News is

(02:07:35):
a guy that has one respect because he went through
it all and came out on the other side and
persevered and stayed with it and was able to able
to gain some respect. But yeah, I mean that's a
good point. I'm trying to remember. You know, the referee
kind of did it. And there are some women that
were not happy at all with how they were treated.
And you know, you bring in not just bringing out

(02:07:56):
just hazing things, but men hazing women can really you know,
to breaze, and misogyny and special harassment issues sometimes stood
and that's not good.

Speaker 6 (02:08:08):
We always appreciate the goal. We're gonna go on to
another caller. Let's go to the nine to one seven
area code nine one seven. Welcome to the show. Please
stay to name where you're from.

Speaker 11 (02:08:18):
Hey, guys, Shoe from points.

Speaker 4 (02:08:20):
How are you doing today?

Speaker 6 (02:08:21):
Good Joe? What do you have for us today?

Speaker 4 (02:08:23):
Have just a couple of questions. First question, that's TNA
questions unfortunately.

Speaker 6 (02:08:29):
Well fun, go ahead, Okay.

Speaker 14 (02:08:31):
I wanted to ask, you know, we always talk about
I think we're all in agreement that TNA has been
just horrible since god knows how long. I don't really
know at this point, but the one thing thing that
they have and I just wanted to know if they've ever,
you know, have gone about going as like to get
feedback from dives backstage.

Speaker 4 (02:08:51):
Who have been who know how to you know, know
the art of.

Speaker 14 (02:08:55):
A promo or anything like that. I've had experience, Like
I'm two guys that come to minor like Mix and
Rick Flair.

Speaker 6 (02:09:00):
Here are two guys.

Speaker 4 (02:09:01):
They earned so.

Speaker 14 (02:09:02):
Much money over the years, they're great with cutting promos.
I'd like to think that they know a thing or
two about wrestling and angles and all that kind of stuff.
But you know, if you watch the program and it
just doesn't seem like you obviously it's the same stuff
that's been seen since like the early nineties, And I
just want to know if you guys have any sources
at all that you know this creative ever go to

(02:09:23):
like guys like Rick Flair, guys who even like Nik Pole,
you know, guys who I would definitely take over Vince
Russo as far as wrestling minds go, like, do you
ever do you guys ever get that.

Speaker 4 (02:09:34):
Sort of insight about that?

Speaker 6 (02:09:37):
Well, I mean, I know that kerr Angle will often
speak his mind. Kaas has kind of developed a reputation
for addressed. You know a lot of uh, I don't
know issues the right word, but sort of the creative decisions.
A lot of guys are just going to play the game.
They're there to show up and have fun and work
TV beyond TV and kind of go all along. Ruth,

(02:10:01):
what's your take on that question from Joe?

Speaker 4 (02:10:04):
Well, you know Rick Flayer for one, you know, he's
happy there. He's really happy there. And one of the
reasons why they're not micromanaging his promos, they're getting you
a couple of bullet points to go out there and
cut his promos, and he enjoys doing that. Even you
know they're silly or whatever they are. He's you can
come up with something, I mean, you can come up

(02:10:25):
with something and he's worked with Jay Lethal some he's what,
you know, he's that improvisation. He's trying to get between
with guys and he knows, you know, he's one of
the greatest ever was at it. I think if people
ask him, he's willing to talk to them about it.
And but as far as coaching, I don't know that
he's coaching anybody.

Speaker 6 (02:10:45):
Like the whole locker room, I do know.

Speaker 4 (02:10:47):
That they're looking for people to get out there. You know,
this is part of when Holkong came in. He wanted
to get away from the overscripted russo w W creative
type of thing and and did guys who can improvise
and live with their characters and react the way their
characters were would and get over the points that they're
given instead of just you know, reading this kinetic material.

(02:11:08):
The thing was that mc foley. So I mean, I
think if Flair isn't going to complain, he's gonna do
what he's asked to do, and then he appreciates the
fact that they leave him alone and give him more
freedom to do it, even if it's the craft that
sometimes they have him doing. And with McK foley, you've
got to remember mc foley liked them throughs and he
always wants to show that he has his other side,

(02:11:30):
and he's tried to do that other side too often.
Is the point where he's interested in showing that I'm
a nice guy, I'm a covely teddy bear, and I'm
a comedian and so you know, they play to that,
and he plays to it, and it's been atrocious. I mean,
he's really fun damage to his in my mind, to
his reputation and to his r as professional wrestler. I mean,

(02:11:50):
it was a low point. Seeing him out there with
us has been e c. W rustless because we die
was a real star and now he's out there with
that and it's just he just kind of it right in.
He has lost a lot of flaming. Some of this
is his own fault. I mean, he has helped in
some of those skifs that you've seen. He has contributed
in some of those things that he's done in the
last year year and a half that is that have

(02:12:12):
just been a truscous. It's the bad side of his
and it's the bad side. He wants to be all
things to all people, and you know he sees you know,
he sees himself as now as his comedian and he's
it doesn't fit in what he's doing in wrestling. It's just,
you know, this kind of half ass, you know, comedy crap,
and it's not very good.

Speaker 6 (02:12:33):
Joey appreciates the call. We're gonna try to squeeze in
one or two more callers before the top of the
hour with our raw coverage at EDB torch dot com.
Let's go to the nine to one o Arie code
nine one. Oh, welcome to the show. We see hing
where you're from.

Speaker 4 (02:12:47):
Oh, yes, this is Hannibal.

Speaker 6 (02:12:49):
How y'all going?

Speaker 2 (02:12:51):
Good?

Speaker 5 (02:12:51):
Handler?

Speaker 3 (02:12:51):
What do you have for us today?

Speaker 4 (02:12:54):
Okay? Yes, what's the latest time status home?

Speaker 3 (02:12:57):
How?

Speaker 19 (02:12:58):
Amen?

Speaker 3 (02:13:02):
Yeah?

Speaker 6 (02:13:02):
I know about Clio.

Speaker 4 (02:13:06):
Vidego, Comic Con and signed some sort of multimedia platform deal.
That's like what that stuff you do on Facebook bombing
and and Mapia war all that. Yeah, yeah, that that's
mopyl Wars. And so he's gonna do that with Jeff Katz,
who worked in w c W and was co author
on Booster Gold of Collic book for DC comments and

(02:13:27):
works in the conference industry a lot. So basically he's
just staring down dic Carter and calling. You know, they're
calling each other's bluff and see whether you know which
one will which one will blink first. That suspect that
Paul Hayman isn't going to blink at least I or not.
So that's where things are, Tommy, Tommy Dreamer is kind
of working his way with the U c W deal

(02:13:49):
into the creative team and you know, in in Paul
Haymen's play, because he's more than willing to work as
a team with whoever D C. Carter has because he's
bad of bookers there is here's still in the twenty
first century. So so that's kind of where that that stands.
We'll see how it goes.

Speaker 6 (02:14:08):
Annimal, we appreciate the call. We sure to call back
in later in the week. We're gonna try to squeeze
in one bar phone call in the last minute of
the show. Let's go to the three three seven. Welcome
to the show. Please seat your name while you're frum.

Speaker 4 (02:14:20):
Hey, James and Bruce, this is Mike from Louisiana. How's
it going good?

Speaker 6 (02:14:24):
Mike?

Speaker 4 (02:14:24):
What do you have for us?

Speaker 3 (02:14:25):
Real quick, real quick?

Speaker 4 (02:14:27):
I got a question In all the year that you
guys have been watching let playing. Is there a singles
wrestl a tag team that you guys thought should have
been pushed to the top. That wasn't.

Speaker 6 (02:14:38):
Christ you have a singles or a tag team up
the top of your head.

Speaker 4 (02:14:43):
You know, not really. I always think in terms of
guys that we're really good that kind of sabotage themselves.
Not guys that I think pretty much. I mean, I
think of a Buddy Lambell type who had all the
talent in the world, and when I look at old
tapes just go, wow, he really was good and it
all up that time. No, I really can't give you

(02:15:04):
anybody now.

Speaker 6 (02:15:06):
Joffer for us today, we're want to thank everyone for
listening to the livecast. Stay tune at pb torch dot
com so live coverage of RAW.

Speaker 1 (02:15:18):
Invite you to email the show with feedback or questions
or comments. That email address is Wade Keller Podcast at
petewtorch dot com. That's Wadekeller Podcast at PW torch dot com.
Also welcome your feedback on Twitter. You can follow us
on Twitter at PW torch and follow me at the
Wade Keller That's at PW torch and at the Wade Keller.

Speaker 16 (02:15:40):
Searching for more great pro wrestling talk. Then join me
Jason Powell, host of the three weekly Pro Wrestling Boom Podcast.
Each week you'll hear the latest news and analysis from
me and my team at Pro Wrestling dot need along
with other pro wrestling media members. Plus, the Pro Wrestling
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the pro wrestling industry. Subscribe and Itunestitcher, downcast, and all

(02:16:02):
your favorite secondary apps, or visit us directly at pw
boom dot com. Once again, that's pw boom dot com.

Speaker 1 (02:16:11):
Thanks for listening to our podcast. Did you know we
also have a website pwtorch dot com Daily news updates, editorials,
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Create a tab or bookmark make it a daily stop.
Visit us throughout the day every day to keep up
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Speaker 10 (02:16:35):
Meet an extra dose of positivity in your wrestling podcasts,
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(02:16:56):
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Speaker 1 (02:17:38):
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