15 YRS AGO LIVECASTS: Ideas for a WWE off-season, Jericho's future, Bryan compared to Nigel, Cena vs. Barrett

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 2 (01:06):
Now, PW Torch and Spreaker bring you the Wade Keller
Pro Wrestling Podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:15):
On today's wad Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast, we jump back
fifteen years to two back to back shows on a
Friday and a Monday from September seventeenth, twenty ten and
September twentieth, twenty ten. First up, James Caldell interacts with
live callers about the build Too Bound for Glory, including
Kurt Angle and RVD. In the mix, the Hardy's Tommy
Drimmer's lengthy promo, Matt Hardy's latest tweets entering work to

(01:37):
shoot Territory and mirroring the two thousand and five issues
with edgeen Lida, also TEENA Management's views on Somemojo and
AJ styles. In the previously VP exclusive after show, he
talked about a potential off season for WWE for RAW.
Could NXT and a character driven reality show create a
three month gap where everyone can kind of recharge and
come back with a new season, So he gets into

(01:58):
details on the pros and cons of that, also the
writer's getting new ideas and also why Dada Bee might
be afraid of that idea. And then the September twentieth episode,
James was joined by Bruce Mitchell to talk about Knight
of Champions from the night before, Chris Jericho's future Miss
versus Brian at the pay per view, how long Randy
Orton would hold the w B title, comparisons with Daniel
Bryan and Dow b and Desmond Wolford, Nigel mcguinnis in

(02:19):
TNA rvd's Babyface promo and impact concussions in football versus
pro wrestling scenea versus Wade Barrett on Raw and more.
So let's get to it. These shows originally live stream
fifteen years ago this weekend. It is today's Way Keller
Pro Wrestling Podcast fifteen years ago flashback four Thursday September
twenty fifth, twenty twenty five.

Speaker 2 (02:43):
You're as listening too the PW Torch livecast. This is
PW Torch Assistant editor James Caldwell. I wast seen today
on Monday September twentieth, twenty ten, or twenty ten in
some circles, and I'm joined today by George Colmans, Bruce Mitchell. Bruce,
are you doing today?

Speaker 3 (03:00):
Wonderfully excited about yet another wrestling show and the last
time was a good show, so maybe it's not a
good say to this.

Speaker 2 (03:08):
Yeah, I agree with you. I rated this show at seven.
I thought it was I was kind of in line
with you listening to the roundtable that Wade wa Keller,
Patt m'neil and you did I have to pay for
view last night? I was in line with a lot
of your evaluations. I rated at seven in my roundtable
Brits is gonna Turnariz to the listeners who haven't listened
to the roundtable review and he towards v at the

(03:29):
audio section. What was your overall view of last night's
had a Champions.

Speaker 4 (03:34):
Pay per view?

Speaker 3 (03:36):
Well, I just thought it was one of those shows
where most of the matches delivered. Daniel Bryan had had
an excellent match with the News, and the News was
very good.

Speaker 2 (03:44):
In the match.

Speaker 3 (03:45):
And I'm not a fan of the multiple man title matches.

Speaker 4 (03:48):
I think I.

Speaker 3 (03:49):
Think it it splits the attention too much. But I
think that the six back Challenge turned out to be
a pret darn good match. That feature, you know, maybe
the cloud going happy because the future was popular ground
the show winning the world title that was right in
New York, so most of everything of the show. If
you're a fan of the direction of WW right now,

(04:09):
I think you would have gotten you'd have gone away
with this was a good time, happy hour, well ruffled,
good guys moving on the show.

Speaker 2 (04:19):
Yeah, exactly. I'm gonna look at a lot of the
reacts that we got on the site, people who weren't
as high as the pay per view were the ones
who aren't enamored with the products right now and the
ones who dn'tlight the pay per view like what WW
is doing right now. So your point on that is
reflecting the feedback that we got it and the mid

(04:40):
Is Brian match. I thought that was just a great
match with the backstory, you know, a match that had
I mean, what three four months of backstory for about
fourteen fifteen weeks. It had a reason for happening. It
had a guy that you like and Daniel Bryan and
the guy you don't like, and then it is and
they put together a pretty strong match. Bridg Are you

(05:00):
surprised that Miz did not cash in the briefcase that
that's something you see that's gonna happen soon or you're
gonna hold that off for a while.

Speaker 3 (05:09):
Even the foremost sometimes is that he don't loses a
secondary title in the middle of the show and then
catches in the briefcase and kind of gets elevated by
winning the world title. But you look at you can't
win it from Kane because I mean, why would you
win it from Kane. Kane won and was in a
dominant position, and he's a psychopath, so that that kind
of Weasley character who would take advantage of money in

(05:32):
the bank isn't going after monster heel Caine. And then
I just don't think that Randy Orton right now isn't
that place of being beaten down and being taken advantage
that way. So I think they wanted they wanted it
to be Randy Orton's night. And you can always pull
the trigger on, you know, you really can't always pull
the trigger on on the mis when the time is right,

(05:52):
but it has to be that someone's been you know,
had the crap kicked out of him and made a
great effort and won the title, and then you just
and you almost forget that he's got it, and then
you go, oh no, you know, the fans go, oh no,
what happened, And I don't know what happened? Was that
you know that he pulls the plug on that and
the right title So it just wasn't the right night,
It wasn't the right title matches for that to go over.

Speaker 2 (06:17):
I agree with that, And obviously the raw hype was
focus on Randy Orton, he was positioned as you know,
it's kind of the hot hand, Uh, kind of you know,
he's a hot running back. You feed him the ball,
you know, you gives me a goal line situation.

Speaker 5 (06:31):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (06:31):
You don't pass the ball, you feet, you keep feeding
into the hot hands.

Speaker 5 (06:34):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (06:35):
And that's what WW did on this pay per view.
He was he was built up as his favorite, the
hot star. And you you know, if you're if you're
gonna get behind him now at the time, with the momentum,
and you put behind him on TV? What do you
see them going? Hell in the cellth I mean my
assumption is him and Seamous and a rematch. They're currently
taping raw right now, so it's it's gonna be a

(06:56):
tate delayed show tonight. We already have Superstar spoilers on
p Hippy toward chat com.

Speaker 5 (07:02):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (07:02):
Probably won't get the raw results during the live cafe
if we did. I don't want to. I kind of
want to go in tonight's show not really knowing what's
gonna happen.

Speaker 6 (07:10):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (07:10):
So, Brice, where do you see them going with Horton
with a pay review two weeks away? Do they go
with the rematch of Shamus, they go a different direction. Uh,
what do you see is your top match and the
Rod brand and another thing for view in two weeks.

Speaker 3 (07:24):
Well, then were problem was given it right straight to
Randy Orton and give everybody that happy ning is what
do you do next? Because usually you want your hottest
guy on a quest to ring the world title from
a tough champion and to kind of go through some
obstacles to do that, because once he's won that world title,
the story is over. And in the six pack Challenge
you don't really have that quest. That's why usually the

(07:46):
way he wins one of these kind of these these
kind of matches. This time they didn't go with him.
But yeah, they can do the rematch of Seamus. They can.
You know that they've got it. They've got set it
up tonight between these two shows that type pick good
Night in two weeks is not a long time to
do it. So I would say just I was straight
up match and defending you get shameless and beating shame
us would be what will probably be the way to does.

Speaker 2 (08:09):
And you hit on a point that my concern with
the Night Champions payper behind is like you said, there
wasn't that quest. You know, it didn't seem like I mean,
Order was a favorite, and the Order was definitely built
up as the top guy going to that match, but
there wasn't that quest. You also did the Chris Jericho story.
You had John Cena and and Wade Barrett get Edge

(08:29):
in there, a lot of different, you know, mixed up stories,
not a true quest for the title. Chris Jericho eliminated,
you know, two minutes into that match last night. What's
your take on what's going on in Jericho? Is this
just a temporary right off? Is there more to it?
Is he? Is he done at least for now, if
not for good? Where where's Jericho right now? Do you think?

Speaker 3 (08:52):
Well? I mean don't. I don't know anymore anybody else does,
as opposed because except for his contracts up and he's
either about the son, he's about to re sign or
he's about to take some time off. And whether that
that time off it's one month, three months, or two years.

Speaker 2 (09:08):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (09:09):
I think that I think that he would be I
don't think he's going with the TNA. I think TNA
isn't too much disarray for him to trust them to
unless they offer him an awful lot of money that
it's worth him kind of going there and sinking. Uh,
I just don't see it. I don't see him doing that.
And he you know that he's he is taking time

(09:31):
off for Sue, his interest. He's taking time off for
Sue tape and and kind of see the lay of
the land and come back. And it worked out really
well for him the last time. So my guess is
that he takes some time off. So I thought that
was a pretty good way last night to write off
a Feld character for a while and then bring him back.

(09:51):
I mean, they you know, they if his I thought
his acting and that was very good.

Speaker 4 (09:56):
I mean I really, and I thought everybody.

Speaker 3 (09:57):
Else is acting made it seem you know, oh my gosh,
you lost the matches. I mean that he's out. I
mean he said that he would retire, he would quick
w w if he if he if he lost it,
he lost so quickly. I can't believe it. And everybody's
just acted that way, and it really just gave a
little different flavor to the six right challenge. I thought
it was a good deal. But yeah, my show, some
of it is. I could be wrong. I'm not watching

(10:19):
Swallers either, and we'll see, you know, we'll see in
the next two weeks and we'll see he's on the
on the paper view. But I suspect he's gonna be
gone for a little while.

Speaker 2 (10:29):
I think it's sounding to freshot the character. And he
had a really strong heel run and and lately it's
sort of been a in between guy or the little
position him as the baby faith at times, you know,
turning the audience kind of gotten away from that strong
heeled character and like you said, maybe it's you know,
time to just step back and refresh and and do
the fizz. And he's got a you know, a big

(10:49):
tour in October, he's another one in December and Australia
that he's out today. Refresh the character and come back,
and I don't see him going to TNA. It's one
of the things where he'd been other guy and he'd
be sucked into that black hole of you know, hey
we got another big star and then he just comes
another guy after a while. We're seen at rv D.

(11:09):
I mean, you talk about this in the Bristo Mitchell
audio show this weekend, where you know you kind of
labeled it one of the worst promos worst baby faced
promos ever with that RVD phone interview.

Speaker 3 (11:20):
Uh, honestly, the worst one I've seen in thirty one years.
And it's not like I've seen some god awful ones.
I mean I've seen some bad ones. And and but
that was I saw Angela Mosca Junior do do tromos
when he was around. I mean, it was awful. It
was just, you know, I saw the saw the worst
of the warrior. That was you know, you know, always

(11:41):
bring up Carry Van Eric, who's said there was only
one there's only one Carry Van Eric. There's only one
Leading Tower Pizza.

Speaker 4 (11:49):
So there's some really dumb ones and.

Speaker 3 (11:52):
And but that was just to have a guy covered
in his own golore who had been attacked by a
maniac from behind with the baseball bat, covered in nails
and portrayed as almost murdered and Hul Code and you know,
hul Cogan and tears, Dixie Carter and tears. They put
him in the ambulance. His family worried, everybody, you don't

(12:15):
know whether he can come back or not. And so
he makes his he makes his telephone, you know, his
telephone promo to come back, and they're showing him waying
there with blood all over him, and Mike today askings
how he's doing. Oh, you know, you know, it's a
challenge to come back from any injury. It's just like,
you know, as someone said on our message board, it

(12:36):
was like he blowed a hand and he's going to
be out for two games in the NFL. I mean,
it was just insulting and really awful. He didn't say
anything about his opponent. He said that Tina. He just
real casually just said, hey, you know, Tina has their business.
They took the title of the movie, and I have
my business. And what's the doctor saying about your return?
I know, doctor, you know how I wrestle because I'm

(12:57):
so he's such a wild guy, you know, and takes
some any chances that a doctor would never allow him
in the ring anyway. So it's just god awful. I mean,
I'm just it was insaulted to everybody. And you know,
I didn't like the angle. I thought it was too
over the top and I thought it has this big
hole in the middle of it of where's the police.
I mean, I've said that before. And when you go

(13:17):
that directly with that, you know, somebody attackting with homicidal
intentions and going to the hospital and all that, and
everybody knows it's a bunch of maloney because there's no
police involved. There's no there's a possible deniability or anything
like that. But I don't care. If I don't care
how much weed you smoke, or how much weed your
character smokes, you were going to be I'm getting revenge

(13:40):
on the son of a bitch that did this. I'm
gonna make him pay. I'm coming back for that. Yes,
my family put my family through through agony, and it's
been a very long, hard struggle. I didn't know what
I could come back, but I'm coming back for one thing,
and with one thing in mind, I'm gonna get abyss.
You know, he attacked me. He was a coward to
attack me behind with the baseball out with nails on it,

(14:00):
and I'm gonna make him pay. Just some version that
I'm just doing it off the top of my head,
some version of that, and that would you know, Dixie Carter.
Dixie Carter would know better. I don't buy all that
stuff about she's been wrestling long enough. But also, anybody
who's watched the movies, when the when the good guy
gets attacked at the beginning of the at the beginning
of the movie and has to make the comeback to

(14:22):
get and get his revenge. He doesn't sit there and
go you who's come to challenge he he He grips
his teeth and goes after and goes after the villain.
I mean, we're not you know, this is not the
hardest thing in the world. And Rob Van dam either
couldn't be bothered to do it or didn't know better
or for good.

Speaker 2 (14:41):
I don't care what it is. I mean, it's just
like it didn't matter.

Speaker 3 (14:44):
You know, it didn't matter to him, and it didn't
matter to him, and you know what they didn't you know,
from what I understand, I've heard them that it didn't
matter to some people. But they also there's such whipped
dogs there that they don't want to stand up too
much and they're basically told, let him do what he
wants through. And Rob van Damn as the type of
guy that knows everything and can't be told anything but

(15:05):
you when you do that, and so many of these
high dollar performers have sacrifice something to make you, to
set you up to come back for revenge, and you
can't bother that's when you sit the guy down, explain
to them how much money he's making and grave control
or whatever it is. He's gotten his contract that you're
gonna do, You're gonna do right by people, and you're

(15:27):
gonna do you can do better than this, or at
least I want to do that. I want to hear
his rational vation for what he did, and if it's
he he didn't like the angle that he's just spoken
up on the angle hit.

Speaker 1 (15:39):
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Speaker 2 (16:09):
Yeah, you know itf likes a management. You know, it's
I mean, it's.

Speaker 3 (16:15):
An it's a complete and it's a complete embassament, and
it's a digit carter that carries no respect, and the
people that work with there carrying no respect, and they
don't respect each other. All they're looking to do is
they've they've thrown up their hands. And I still blame
them because because it's cheating, cheating the people who put

(16:35):
their time in to watch the television.

Speaker 4 (16:37):
It's cheating.

Speaker 3 (16:38):
Whether it's seven thousand, thirteen, twenty thousand, four thousand, whatever
it is, it's cheating everybody. But the people who steal
the shows on those torn on those torch trains, well,
I mean it's a complete another, it's a complete another ripoff.
And you know, you never know what angle can take
off and you never know. But I mean it's just

(16:58):
I mean, I don't believe that one would, but it
certainly deserves it certainly deserves better than that. And you know,
the truth is, you can be in the business for
a long time. You can be a performer in wrestling.
I've seen it happen before. Who knows how to perform,
who knows how to work in the ring, Who doesn't
understand booking, who doesn't understand storytelling? And outside of telling

(17:19):
a story in a match where you're do and doing
what you're directed to do, and that certainly does happen.
Not everybody's a booker, but that was that was awful.

Speaker 2 (17:27):
That's just odd.

Speaker 3 (17:28):
And then it was just he blew it off. And
from what I understand, there three of these promos. That
first one that that for my money was the worst
and was the worst in my thirty one years of
watching pro wrestling. That was the best of.

Speaker 4 (17:44):
The three that he did.

Speaker 3 (17:45):
So we've got something look forward to the next next.

Speaker 4 (17:47):
Couple of shows to wow.

Speaker 3 (17:50):
There you go, So we'll see, we'll see.

Speaker 2 (17:53):
All right, let's go ahead and give up the number
and grab some phone calls if you want to join
us on the live cast live about forty five minutes
away from the top of the hour. Well, we will
be covering w RAW on p tw B Torch dot Com.
Number to call is six four six seven nine eight
two eight, and we're talking in the last night's pay
per view of course, w W subjects, TNA subjects in

(18:15):
the news. And let's go ahead and grab our first
phone call today. This is UH seven eight six erie
code seventy six. Welcome to the show. Please station and
know where you're.

Speaker 6 (18:22):
From and the going guys with Johnny Fromdallas, Texas.

Speaker 2 (18:26):
Hey, Johnny, let's going on today?

Speaker 7 (18:28):
Not much I wanted to say. I mean a long
time ago when when.

Speaker 8 (18:33):
Daniel Bryant first came and I've forgotten, I forgot what
for desmine of wolves every saying oh, you know, I
mean Daniel made the wrong choice.

Speaker 2 (18:41):
I mean, I gotta getting cready to look at them now.

Speaker 7 (18:43):
I mean then then definite wolf hasn't really done anything
for you know, he.

Speaker 3 (18:47):
Was the first couple of weeks of hype and.

Speaker 8 (18:49):
Now they know, they just put him in the back
of the back of the shelf.

Speaker 9 (18:52):
I mean, look at Brian now.

Speaker 8 (18:54):
I think we David gave him a hard time to Briana.

Speaker 2 (18:57):
Saying, oh you've done Ben in Kna and all that.
What do you guys think on that first.

Speaker 3 (19:01):
Go over that first I didn't think you'd do better
to you and I thought he had some limited choices
and he has gone forward. But watch what they say
about him.

Speaker 4 (19:10):
I mean they they laid off of it a little.

Speaker 3 (19:12):
Bit last night, but let's see a pay for you.
But you know, between you know, criticizing his I mean,
what difference does the make of e's a Vegan. What's
that got to do with anything in wrestling? And you know,
talking about the size and all that. Even though as
soon as he goes on to offense, people buy it
because he has because he can go, he can wrestle.
Last night, they gave him what it is and he

(19:33):
made it to you know, is he gonna make it
to a long run at the top of the mid
card or make it to the main event. I don't know.
He did something he should have impressed on people last night.
But we've seen also when a guy like that, when
an internet favorite does well, and you know what that means.
That means the internet's right. And the people who took

(19:54):
a look at him said he'll never make it that
are empowering. WW were wrong and so WW controls their.

Speaker 2 (20:00):
In the world.

Speaker 3 (20:00):
They can they can turn that around. So we'll see
if But right now he's certainly is doing he's certainly's
doing fine. I mean, you look at where Brian Kendrick is.
I mean, that's that's the guy that's kind of kind
of the same sort of act. Look at where Brian
Kendrick is and TNA look where look where Danna Brian
is and you know, you know, that's that's what it

(20:20):
would have been. That's what it would have been for
Daniel Broyan and TNA. So I never bought that one.
I thought he had a limited I thought because of
the way both companies are, he had some limited choices.
I still kind of think, So.

Speaker 2 (20:32):
What is Brian Kendrick's character, Bruce, can you put it
into a fins or to what is?

Speaker 4 (20:38):
Yes?

Speaker 6 (20:38):
I can.

Speaker 3 (20:38):
I know that, you know, I think that you know,
Brian Kendricks talks about you know, he's you know, this
kind of new age shaman tide and what do you mean?
You know, I don't think he knows what those words mean,
but it is true that that, you know, science defines
our reality, as you know in the end, a lot
of energy ways. I mean, that's that's kind of kind

(21:00):
of light waves and energy ways and everything is made up,
even matter is made up of that. And so there's
you know, there's some kind of halfway religious ideas about that,
but everything is connected, and of course that fits into
religion too. But it's sort of one of those I
said this, I said this on on the audio show
this weekend. But it's one of those religions where people

(21:22):
who want the fun of religion, but not the responsibility
that comes with it. They kind of put up with that,
but it completely doesn't. I mean again, you have to
you have to have a character he made. He made
up that character. Get to have a character that fits
into being a fighter. So if you just wanted positive
energy and negative energy, I'm sorry, and you're staying away

(21:45):
from negative energy. You're staying away from conflict. Conflict is
negative energy is when the two energy ways come together.
So why would he be fighting anybody? Why would he
be wanting a piece you know, why would he be
wanting a piece of fortune like he did? You know,
why would be wanting to want to fight Matt Morgan?
Wouldn't you want to just as he said, change his

(22:06):
energy ways and go somewhere else. So I just think
that kind of stuff. I think that the I think
that there's some people in TNA who think that, you know,
a modern gimmick is being a stoner and it doesn't.
You know, it's like you've never seen a guy. He's
never seen a guy on Heroin as a gimmick. Now,
we've had some people are on Heroin that rustled, but

(22:27):
there was you know, not exactly it doesn't exactly help
their career. But you've never seen that because it's a
passive way to be so it doesn't make you know,
it just doesn't make sense. So you're not gonna have
I mean, maybe you could have the pass of this.
I don't you know, James, you're two doing to remember this.
But David Krdy and then the Kung Fu the TV show,

(22:48):
I was much more of a Bruce Lee guy. But
David Cardy, you know, kung Fu, it was the pastest
until he waited around the entire show for forty five
minutes until someone ticked him off well enough so that
he would the butt and at the end of the show.
You kick somebody's butt every show. But I guess you
could do it that way where you know, but it
just doesn't fit. And Kendrick, I don't know. I think

(23:09):
Kendrick needs some fire because when you look at him.
I am a believer that you have to look credible
as a fighter.

Speaker 4 (23:17):
You know.

Speaker 3 (23:17):
I don't mean you have to be on steroids. I
don't mean that you have to be a bufflehead, but
you just have to look in some way like you can.
It's like, yeah, she could be somebody up, and I'm
not sure Brian Kendrick looks that way all the time.

Speaker 2 (23:31):
I think everybody and Kendrick's characters are kind of microcousins
of TNA where they get to the guy that's creative freedom.
But there's no vision, you know, there's no vision for
the product or the character or how the character fits
into a larger scheme of booking. I mean, there is
no scheme, there is no vision, there is no direction.
It's just you.

Speaker 3 (23:49):
Know, sometimes I think you just throw up your hands again,
let's keep everybody happy. I don't want to hear that complaining.
And if they're not complaining to the boss and not conplay,
I'll keep my job, which is the truth, you know.
So I mean that goes to the man's and that
goes I mean, if you're a manager, you have to
be well decide you're doing you're doing a good job.
If you're doing a good job and you're doing a
bad job, you have to be able to tell the
tell the difference, and you can't just you know, be

(24:10):
everybody's pile and everybody's party buddy. And that's that's the truth.

Speaker 4 (24:14):
So but the other side of.

Speaker 3 (24:16):
It is if you do that and your strong management
and everybody starts making more money, they're gonna watch you
a lot better anyway.

Speaker 2 (24:23):
But anyway, Johnie, did you have a follow up question
or or any other? Yeah, I'm just I'm just hoping.

Speaker 7 (24:33):
That without a hell of a head of a cell show,
I'm in data.

Speaker 3 (24:36):
So I'm gonna I.

Speaker 8 (24:37):
Was able to commit my girlfriend down a nine here
anniversary and ended on that date, and then you go
to the hell of the cells.

Speaker 7 (24:44):
I'm hoping they put on a show because I'm I'm
putting up a lot disgother. But another thing, if Church
they take characters, gonna take some time off, you think
you people, they think you need to take a few
months off for his story and think just to hold
them up and bring him in and just briding the
Royal rumble if you need a little time off.

Speaker 2 (25:01):
Interesting, Bruce, do you think they would hold him off
that long? And and having met the surprise the twenty
eleven surprise rumble entry wasn't.

Speaker 3 (25:08):
Give him the right contract. I mean, I bet they
could get him back there. It maybe he's speaking longer term,
but I think he'll leave on good terms. I mean,
it looks like he's gonna.

Speaker 4 (25:17):
Leave on these terms.

Speaker 3 (25:18):
So I mean there's certainly a possibility is also possibility
they could use them as use him as a kind
of a guest star for about one night and throw
him in and then throw them right out. So yeah,
you know, we'll see Johnny.

Speaker 2 (25:35):
Good call. We appreciate that. Let's let's continue on to
the eight six five eerie code eight six five. Welcome
to the show. If we stay, you know where you're from. Hey,
turn on, guys, Stephen Tennessee, Hey, Steven, let's going on today.

Speaker 10 (25:50):
Nothing much, man, I just got a one good question
here as thought over the weekend hot of you guys
watch on efty A and out on Fat Day. But
I was watching it and they had this segment about
the football players from Penn who committed suicide, and that
the thing they're talking about it was that he uh
was a thought He said that he had had trauma

(26:10):
from playing football. The thing is he never he never
got a concuss or anything like that, and his buddies
that talked about him said like his personality change and
all that stuff and what talking It was very similar
to those that said about you know, the last day
of Crispin Wall And so my question is now with
the more and more that interation comes out by head
trauma and the way impact is football and especially in
wrestling effects.

Speaker 3 (26:32):
You know, the brand and all that stuff.

Speaker 10 (26:33):
And then now with that dnity getting in destigated, that's
probably the independent contractors go, do you do you think
that we're gonna be They're gonna be forced at some
point two things for Rost Coffee.

Speaker 2 (26:43):
I did not hear that story. I think I'll watch
about twenty hours.

Speaker 3 (26:47):
Yeah, very much. Yeah, I heard that story. It was
it was definitely there. It's definitely connected to that. I mean,
had trauma is an issue in the NFL, it's an
issue in college football, and you know, there's a lot
of diagnosed concussions too. And that's one of the reasons
why Kristen Whiskey is looking to whenever wrestlers die, to

(27:08):
get their families to to contribute their their brains to
so that they can study and see what happened to
the brain. It's interesting that we haven't had There's been
some people that have died who have not done that,
and you wonder why, But yes, I mean, you know
who has more concussions and I'd say n if A

(27:29):
football and Pro wrestling and you have you know, it's
a it's a very big issue. And as we learned
that that there was more to you know, you know,
it was you know something too in professional wrestling, in football,
you know, shake it off, get up and go and
play if you can, and work if you can, and
and and we're seeing mood swings. We've seen you know,

(27:52):
people have a change, and it's happens in pro wrestling.
And it's not just Chris ben Waugh. It certainly isn't
just Chris Manlis. So it's an issue and how they
work in the big stunt spots and and the garbage
wrestling and whacking people over the head with chairs and
garbage cans and the rest of that stuff. And I

(28:13):
think that it's education and understand that this stuff costs.
You're always going to have that catalyst jerk. He says,
someone wants to kill themselves from my entertainment, I'll laugh
at them while I'm entertained. But those people, that's that's
a minority. I really do think that that's a pretty
small minority, and thankfully so. And then but you know,

(28:33):
it cuts right to the heart of what pro wrestling
is because we've seen the generations of the stars and
wrestling of the sixties and the seventies, and they have
suffered with dementia, they have suffered with these issues, and
there's just no you know, there's no they you think
about having having concussions, they had They didn't wrestle anywhere
near the heavy style that was wrestled in the nineties

(28:56):
and the and the new millennium. So it's gonna be
a long it's gonna be a long run. And you just,
you know, as we learned that, as we learned this,
the NFL and Pro Wrestling's gonna have to face and
and and MMA is gonna you know, UFC is gonna
have space after this, and however they do it, and
our society is gonna make some choices, I think, and

(29:17):
I think some of the choices aren't gonna be for
the health of the of the participants. I don't see
our society giving up National Football League in any circumstances.

Speaker 2 (29:25):
So I don't know about you, Brius, but I've seen
a lot more injuries a week two through two weeks
than that I can remember in any other season. I mean,
I've been watching football.

Speaker 3 (29:35):
The NFL's taking a one to eighty degree. They used
to deny the concussions and they said the research wasn't there.
Now they know now they know they can't deny it.
And so if someone's showing signs with concussions, they're Yankees
and they're keeping them out. And you hear more about that,
and you know that more from Panthers almost didn't play
this weekend, not that he played well, but almost didn't

(29:56):
play this weekend because he doesn't concussion in the first
in the first game, and and either starting you know,
what about the guys in high school? What about Yeah,
it goes again. It goes against the traditional epic of football,
which is suck it up, and the ethic of pro wrestling,
which is suck it up squared.

Speaker 4 (30:14):
So you know, we'll we'll see.

Speaker 3 (30:16):
That that that that story this weekend directly relates to
the lot of some professional wrestlers and the death of
some professional wrestlers, no doubt about it.

Speaker 11 (30:27):
Need an extra dose of positivity in your wrestling podcasts,
will come join me Alan furrel Over in the Progress
Paradise at peterwoo georch VIP as we mask on the
bright side of wrestling and focus on some of the
great matches and shows from around the world, be it US, Japan,
Europe or Mexico. There's always a place for wrestlings past

(30:48):
and the paradise too, and we've done fun historical shows
such as the We Love Liger series celebrating the glorious
career of Jusian thunder Linger. And I was there when
shows where our guests will join me to talk about
a classic bout that they were in attendance for. We
love variety and you can expect lots of it at
the Progress Paradise. Detailed pw Torch VIP subscription information on

(31:11):
the list of all the VIP benefits is available at
pwrew Torch vip info dot com. And yes, all VIP
podcasts are compatible with popular podcast apps on iPhone and
Android devices, or you can stream them directly from our
ad free VIP mobile site. See You in the Paradise.

Speaker 2 (31:33):
And WW You know they have the impact concussion testing.
I to me, they they don't disclose the application of it.
That's been my biggest problem with it is lack of transparence.
And that's my biggest problem with the entire wellness policy itself.
It is a lack of transparency. You know, every six
months or a year or so, announce you know, somebody's
been suspended thirty months, thirty days for violation, but they

(31:55):
don't disclose anything about the concussion testing. And that's what
my biggest problem is that you never know, uh, how
it's been applied and how you know whether wrestler has
been for You don't even have to name the wrestler,
you can black out the name, but there has to
be some disclosure so that people and especially shareholders know
that this policy is being adhered to and it's been applied,

(32:16):
and it's not just on the.

Speaker 3 (32:16):
Peace, not the shareholders, the people that people.

Speaker 4 (32:19):
That matters.

Speaker 6 (32:19):
Why.

Speaker 3 (32:20):
I mean, I think I think you can. I think
you say, this guy's out for concussion and there's no
and you pay them and you don't you don't penalize
them for it, and you don't penalize them for taking
themselves out because it's just too much at stake. Now
what we understand that the the risk involved and playing
as it were, with a concussion is just way too much.

(32:41):
The damage that he's done quickly that we did not
understand before that.

Speaker 4 (32:44):
And it's interesting that Chris Nwinski, who.

Speaker 3 (32:47):
Was a professional wrestler, came out of Harvard and had
you know in his and he's facing some of these
brain injury issues in his young age, at his young
age and had to retire from pro rustling. Is speriencing
a lot of this. I mean, you know, he's making
he's he's he's helping people with something that really has

(33:08):
hurt him. And I think I applauded him for that.

Speaker 2 (33:13):
Steven, any other question or follow.

Speaker 10 (33:17):
Well, I just kind of listening to atle to handle
a concussion in the match better, I mean, brus she
talked about how they yank that more. Uh, you know
former Tennessee Vall being from here, and I guess some
Winton got a major concussion and the Cowboys game yesterday
and the trainers yanked him and even though he complained
about want to get back to the field, they wouldn't
let him. And you know, I'm sure those trainers are
just afraid of you know, Jerry Jenones. As you know,
the referees are for Vince mc mann. But you know,

(33:38):
earlier this year, y'all mavers do it during the art
truth and tied to the Yostey match tag. You those
signs of a concussion, but they still wouldn't go into
the five minutes. Yeah, yeah, I think I think you
will see that not as much.

Speaker 3 (33:50):
I think you're gonna see that not as much because
as people know, they know these signs of the concussion
and see that, that's gonna put the that's gonna make
what whether it's the Dallas Cowboys in the NFL. Jerry
Jones may not like it, but I don't know what
he I don't I don't want to. I don't like
Jerry Jones, but I don't want to get off on that.
But I mean it's he may or may not like it,

(34:12):
but it's going to put him in legal risk if
if someone says, if someone says let him play, and
the trainers in their minds say this pu's concussion, and
you're putting that person in mind in risk for permanent
brain damage and it happens you, I mean, you're talking
major lawsuits.

Speaker 4 (34:29):
And the other thing is the.

Speaker 3 (34:30):
Class action suit in the in the NFL would cripple
the league and that and that's something that that that
I don't know anyone any of the players want to
take that. But if you look at if you look
at players and you look at dementia and and how
many how many of the legendary players suffer from that,
from from some type of damage from those concussions could

(34:52):
be then the same thing with you know W and
why would W care? I mean, if you're having a
match between Teddy Boski and Our Truth and ted d
he gets it, gets a concussion, what's the difference. Stop
the match, get him to get him the care that
he needs, and keep him out for the time that
he needs to keep coming. I don't think anyone in
the crowd is gonna go give me my money back.
One of these new card matches didn't go to a conclusion,

(35:14):
you know, I mean you can. It's not that it's
not that hard. So and even in the events, I
think that everybody and I think it's an understandable thing.
I think you need to limit the limit the bumps
when the concussions are gonna come. I mean, I think
you have to be very be more conservative, and that
that that means you have to learn how to russell
a style like Randy Yorton Russells where every movie makes

(35:38):
with his with his face, with his body, with how
he reacts to things, how he slows down and is timing.
That's that's a safer style. And guess what, that's the
style that's the most o. You can talk all you
want about strong style, you can talk all you want about,
but getting that personality over in the course of a
match and telling a story does not take and drawing

(36:02):
fans and making money does not take the risk that
we've seen in the last twenty years.

Speaker 2 (36:09):
Right, That's why I mean, I stress all the time
facial expressions and I write about that almost a nos.
And that's I mean, that's the safest way. If you
rely on the facial expressions and the cameras catch that,
and that's how you tell your story. That's the safest
way to continue this business. You know, it's not you know,
let's take eight bumps instead of two to get over,

(36:30):
or take eight chair shots to the head when none
is required, but you know one would satisfy if it's
done safely.

Speaker 4 (36:37):
Well, I'm not a believ that you do that.

Speaker 3 (36:40):
There is a way to do say chair shots safely.
You do, you do, you do you and you set
up the move where people see it coming.

Speaker 4 (36:51):
You do the move and then you get people a.

Speaker 3 (36:53):
Chance to react to it. About how the two wrestlers
react to it in the ring and then you move
to the next one. If you notice, that's Main Events style.
That's what WW does, and that's always been made the
style because you can go so fast that you leave
most of the crowd behind, some.

Speaker 4 (37:09):
Of the people that are educated to it, and.

Speaker 3 (37:11):
They're chanting this is awesome. And there's no doubt this
is awesome a lot some of the time it's it's
kind of been it's been inflated and you in the
last few years. But it also it also wears out
people's body faster, and they don't and they don't have
that person, you know, the average fan, that casual fan
doesn't feel that connection to him. But I look at

(37:32):
you know, I look at what happened last night with
Mis and with Mis and Daniel Bryan, where there was
a compromise between the between that, you know, the very
top four star style and the acting, and I, you know,
I thought that Danel Brian acts. I mean, he does
the faces, espression, he does all stuff. He celebrated winning great.

(37:52):
I mean, he had the charison people were behind him.
I mean, his offense look good. It's selling created simply
for and Mis really added a lot of the traditional
style to it and made it made for a meld
of a very you know, a very good mint card match.

Speaker 2 (38:10):
I agree. And they had that backstory they had, I mean,
miss had some great facial expressions that match, and Brian
played a great underdog baby face. So uh agreed.

Speaker 3 (38:18):
They had they built it. They didn't just they didn't
just do let's say T and A did with with
winning the winning the winning the the the Text Division
title without even announcing the match and just walking out
there and getting it and then in five minutes winning
it and having a celebration. And nobody was much in
the celebration because there's no bill for it, there's no anticipation,

(38:41):
there was no thing for it.

Speaker 4 (38:42):
But they did.

Speaker 3 (38:43):
Build this over the last you know, several months throughout
the time of MS being his coach and and and I.

Speaker 2 (38:52):
Agreed, Steven, any final thoughts or question.

Speaker 10 (38:57):
That can put me on hold, I appreciated, And you
guys have a good night.

Speaker 2 (39:00):
All right. We appreciate the call. Again. You're on the
you're listening to the PW Torch Live cast. That is
PW Torch Assistant editor James Caldwell hosting today with Torch
calling this first, Mitchell, If you want to join us
on the live cast the last twenty five minutes or
so before Raw tonight, the number to call is six
four six seven two one nine eight two eight. Let's

(39:21):
go to our next caller. This is from the seven
O three area code. Seven oh three. Welcome to the show.
Please say dreaming where you're from? Oh?

Speaker 12 (39:29):
Hey Larry from Atlanta.

Speaker 2 (39:31):
Hey Larry, get hear from you.

Speaker 12 (39:32):
Let's got to say, hey, Hey, doing good and thanks
for taking my call because I know I I accidentally
hung up while I was plugging in my girlfriend's laptop
and was like, no, I watched my spot, so you know,
I'm glad you took my call.

Speaker 2 (39:45):
James, Thanks, I saw you drop off.

Speaker 4 (39:47):
Bla your duel friend.

Speaker 3 (39:48):
That's good.

Speaker 4 (39:49):
Blame your girlfriend's I'm.

Speaker 12 (39:51):
Not blaming her. It was totally it was my fault.
But I'm so.

Speaker 3 (39:56):
Anyway, I'm okller tell you how we're going.

Speaker 2 (40:01):
She's to me.

Speaker 12 (40:02):
But anyway, Well, let me let me first say that
the Mitchell audio from this past weekend, Bruce, were you
ripped into that Rob Van Damn promo? Anybody on the
fence about going vi P just just go to BW
towards dot com sence, go vi P sign up now
and get that Mitchell audio because I must have listened

(40:24):
to that five times this weekend, because that was brilliant
and that promo was so brutal, and the whole angle
is just terrible, and I I just I thank you
for speaking truth to power and just saying how brutal
and awful and poorly written that whole was, because it's
an abomination.

Speaker 3 (40:44):
And you know, I want to figure Robin and damn,
but I figured a lot of other people pay for
allowing that to happen. Not fobbing that. I just why
I got. I got some things off my chest last week,
and that was for sure.

Speaker 12 (41:00):
Yeah, I can tell, and I get I guess sort
of like a little mini question related to that, and
and and you know, I know there are a billion
things wrong with this, but why would you even write
something like this where you know, RVD gets carved up
or whatever, and then he comes back in six weeks?
Why would anyone come back in six weeks when then

(41:21):
this is something where you know, I thought he ran
out of dates or whatever. I thought they were going
to bring him back like three or four months.

Speaker 3 (41:28):
Yeah, I mean why they started off, and they went
too far. They went too far, and they think that,
you know, because you can't get a reaction with just
attacking somebody backstage, because they do that all the time.
So you have to you know, you've got this love
diminishing returns or this. You know, people are so so callous.

Speaker 4 (41:47):
Did anything they do. So they went.

Speaker 3 (41:49):
Way overboard and showed a lot of blood and had
a big reaction and put him in the ambulance and
had you know, Dixie and and Hulk Cogan and Eric
Bischoff just going crazy and that and it's been friend
Jeff Hardy and all that stuff and and so I
think they went overboard with it. But then they just
didn't plan it out, and they didn't think they did

(42:09):
that tournament and you know that Goofy tournament. If you
if you could wait until it's ten ten bound for glory,
the guy's going to be back before they just pulled
the title back for So that made that made no sense.
But it goes with just a lack of poor planning.
But I don't blame and lord knows, I honestly bowed

(42:32):
to no one.

Speaker 4 (42:33):
And my.

Speaker 3 (42:36):
In my coverage of Vice Rus over the years. I
really I will bow to no one about that. But
I don't believe. I don't point a viruster for this one.
That that to me came out of the mouth of
Rob van Dam And I think that was that was
he was too cool for school and and was doing
his stone act and thought and thought it was making

(42:56):
him look cool, and that he done everything goes off
his back because he's a stoner, and then he just
goes in the.

Speaker 4 (43:03):
Ring and performs.

Speaker 3 (43:04):
I think that's the way.

Speaker 4 (43:05):
He sees it. And he couldn't be more wrong.

Speaker 3 (43:07):
He could not be more wrong. He could not be
less of a team player for the people that are
around him. He could not be more insulting to his
own fans than the fans that watch that shut But
you know, I just seems to be out of his character.

Speaker 12 (43:21):
I know that you guys don't necessarily, you know, give
out all the VIP audio. But if there was one
one VIP audio where I'm like, you know what, give
that out for free, just so that people can see
what kind of brilliant stuff is on there, I would
put that on there, or even like go so far
as to put it on YouTube and like splice it

(43:41):
up with the promo like show what it would show
you reacting, just all the terrible lines and just how
it's all the wrong ideas terrible. But let me ask
kind of a follow up, because I heard Desmond Wolfe's
name get brought up, and you know, and and how
he's not how he's not getting pushed. But it seems

(44:02):
like what he he had another sort of he has
to take another some more time off because of I
guess his past concussion problems. It seems like WW made
the right choice not to take him. And I know
when TNA was doing that that online poll, everyone was
really pushing up Desmond wolf I certainly went went and
voted for him to get some new blood up there.
But in retrospect that it seem like PNA was justified

(44:27):
and not in not pushing Desmond wolf because he was
injury prone or should they just not have hired him
in the first place.

Speaker 3 (44:33):
Well, I mean, well, you know, James, he can speak to,
can speak to why is out right now?

Speaker 2 (44:38):
And well I can, I can. I can say this
that the popular belief that it was concussion related that
I have to be really delicate on this. Uh, it's
not that that's all I'll say because I can't go
any any further detail, but Bruce going go ahead with
with why uh? Why you I mean is what's TNA

(45:04):
justified it and not pushing him? And then why do
you think that they are not at least they're not
featuring him right now? You know it's setting aside the
health issues. Well, you know, if he was perfectly healthy,
why do you think they wouldn't be pushing him right now?

Speaker 3 (45:16):
Well, here's the thing w passed on him because he
couldn't pass the physical and it was concussion related so TNA,
So that means that he's in danger in that ring
because of the stylity work and I made concussions to him,
and that means that TNA didn't care and took him anyway.
Now they've got there's another bigger name that is expected

(45:40):
to leave WWE. And then during this week who a
lot of people are concerned about and who is said
to be in denial about his own health problems.

Speaker 2 (45:48):
That's Matt Hardy.

Speaker 3 (45:49):
And that and that you know, the TNA does something
completely irresponsible and without conscience when they take damaged performers
with open arms without being responsible, without making them be
responsible for what whatever.

Speaker 4 (46:05):
Is, you know, whatever's.

Speaker 3 (46:06):
Going on, thinking that, hey, that's the way it is.
And then I mean, hul Cogan's like that, Aaron Bishoff's
like that. They were like that in w W, in
w c W when you look at the blood that
they have on their hands and you look at how
many w CW guys from from the from the heyday
aren't with us anymore because they took guys they didn't care,

(46:27):
they didn't ask whether they were what they were on
or anything else, as long as they could show up
for work. And that, you know that that's a very callous,
despicable thing to do. And and they're you know, T
and a t and a whatever the problem is. And
James James probably knows more about them than I do
with desmin Wolf. But that's you know, I mean, they

(46:51):
took him knowing that WWE passed on him because of
the physical condition. And they're going to take Matt Hardy
knowing that Matt Hardy had as a problem. After they
took after they took a guy who after they took
a guy from w from WW who's not in WV,
one of the big stars in w B because he

(47:11):
and one of the major reasons he's not there is
because he is under federal indictment and he continues to
be that during their time, and nobody thinks anything of that.
And it's you know, it's an uh you know for
federal drudge felity drug charges. I mean not when he's
under fellawy drugs drug charges and has been for months
and months now, and they very well go to jail

(47:34):
and nobody thinks of it. And the two and the
two of them together, both of them being enabled in
its way, they don't care either one, either one about
the parties, don't care either one about does wolf. And
it's despicable, but it's going to happen.

Speaker 2 (47:51):
It's horrible. And you know g and A's rationalization, and
this is what I've always heard, is the rationalizing is that, well,
we're getting them away from go to these schedule, so
the issue is gonna go away or or they figure
that being on that schedule they will at least be
able to manage their health issues better. It's same to
the kurd angle, that's gonna that's great, you know, that's great.

Speaker 3 (48:13):
Well, you know, that's one part of the puzzle, but it's.

Speaker 2 (48:16):
Not the whole puzzle.

Speaker 3 (48:17):
And you know what, they they gambled on kurd Angle,
and so far they've they've won that gamble. But all
those you know, but all those gambles you start losing.
You play the odds long enough, you start losing because
the odds of the odds and kern Angle, you know,
kerd Angle, we see, I mean.

Speaker 4 (48:37):
We see it with our own eyes. The things that.

Speaker 3 (48:40):
Kurd Angle will go through, the things that kurd Angle
will do to perform for TNA, and the damage and
the cumulative damage that he's that he has built up
in that time. And there's been times that they needn't
tell him. You know, there's there's more.

Speaker 4 (48:54):
Than once on pay per view.

Speaker 3 (48:55):
And I saw, you know, I saw how show the
night the night before where he could barely walk. The
next he's out there, he's out there ruffling, and you
know what it took to do that where where if
he says he can go, they're gonna let him go
because they don't care. And because they thought they think
they've won the gamble, they think they've had.

Speaker 4 (49:13):
It for several years.

Speaker 2 (49:14):
It's worked out.

Speaker 3 (49:15):
It's you know, it's it's the part of the difference
that really can be department.

Speaker 1 (49:23):
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(49:44):
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Speaker 2 (49:56):
Larry any other question or follow.

Speaker 12 (50:00):
Sure, James, Actually my my girlfriend who you guys are
making fun of you for blaby Earlier, she had a
quick question about Canaan Undertaker at Night of champions Sure, Hi, guys,
I really like your show.

Speaker 13 (50:12):
You keep me interested in wrestling, which is benefit to
Hilarry here. But my question was, really, did you think
they should have ended with Undertaker losing? I mean, I
know they have to end with the championship match, but
it kind of was a major downner and right before
the Championship match, and it seemed like, I mean, I
understand you got to keep it going and get Undertaker

(50:33):
to have this big, you know thing leading up to WrestleMania,
but it just seemed like such a let the way
that he got defeated, couldn't make.

Speaker 14 (50:40):
It back up to the stage.

Speaker 13 (50:41):
You know, I wonder what you thought about that?

Speaker 2 (50:43):
Good question. Yeah, Verset, what what's your take on the
booking of last night's World Tidle Match and where do
you think it's going?

Speaker 3 (50:51):
Well? I like it, but I think it is a
real gamble. I mean, Undertaker is undertake as a vulnerable
sense about him. He was a super eero and this
time he's not.

Speaker 2 (51:01):
He's not invulnerable.

Speaker 3 (51:03):
Kane has his number, King can beat and clean right
in the middle, knees and real threat to him, and
they take a chance of Wow, you can always count
on an Undertaker. I mean he may you know, he
may lose through some technicality or something might happen, but
he's going to you know, he's going to show that
he's physically dominant, and he did not do that in
that match, and so yeah, it's a downer. But if

(51:24):
it's if it's a chapter in a story, and that
he he you know, comes on a comeback. He goes
to he goes to a mystical you know, he goes
to an ancient one to teach him how to be
the Undertaker again, and he makes a comeback and keeps
back against his brother. I mean, it's a story that
can lay out all the way, but it's it's definitely
a gamble. But I don't think you're in the show

(51:45):
with that, because they clearly, except for that, wanted to
have the kids in the audience happy. They wanted to
send everybody home happy with that, and that that meant
Wendy Yrton, the most popular guy on the show, holding
up holding up the world tidle at the end of
the shot, and that's what that's what that was about.
But yeah, I can see, you know, you wonder whether

(52:06):
you know, wonder people are gonna stick with Undertaker with
a change like that. But the one thing he's done
is changed his character off from years to years, and
I think he trusts Kane. They you know, they've worked
the other fourteen years. And I liked it. I think
that I think that you build up Carne, you build
up training really really strong and then when Undertaker beats
and it's gonna mean a lot more than just your

(52:27):
average chain Undertaker.

Speaker 2 (52:28):
Match, right, And that's kind of why I like that.
I like the book. You I thought they really especially
the announcers, got Overcane as a dominant chance, you know,
kind of the he stole the Undertaker's power, and you
can you can kind of play around with that a
little bit and take it forward it's worth. But they're
building up Kane and they're they're also building toward Taker
making that big comeback that it's really gonna mean something

(52:51):
when it happened, And like you said, is at the gamble,
they've got to wrestle Ania twenty seven match, you know,
as Undertaker uh down the road. If this blows up
in their face, one of their big attraction matches the
wholeb under Taker faces, it could be watered down or
it could be strengthened, depending on how this plays out.
So I'm very interested to see how they've booked this.
Going to Hell in the Cell. I assume they'll have

(53:13):
a rematch at Helm the Seller, or maybe they'll involve
some other people to stretch out the next Kane Undertaker
singles match, Bruce. Where is he then going to Helen
to sell it? Did they do the rematch, they hold
it off, or do they put some other guys in
the mix.

Speaker 3 (53:28):
I think that's gonna tell the tale of whether they're
gonna stretch this out to that perhaps the Rustlemania, because
if it's just an Undertaker distant revenge, then it was
meant to be you know, three or four months and
not much more than that. So you know, we'll stay
there now. I do want to say to the call
and you do know that before you got on the
air that your boyfriend was really giving you a hard

(53:49):
time about your laptop and playing you for almost losing
the place on line. So I just want to you know,
interest a fairness. I don't want to get anybody in
trouble or anything.

Speaker 13 (53:57):
So no, no, no, listen, thanks for taking my call.

Speaker 12 (54:02):
You guys.

Speaker 13 (54:03):
I kind of have to agree though, with with you,
with you that.

Speaker 14 (54:07):
It's it's a risk, because I mean, I thought Undertaker.

Speaker 13 (54:10):
Looked kind of pathetic walking back. I didn't think he
looked like just beat, like, oh my god, Undertaker got beat.
I thought he looked kind of sad.

Speaker 3 (54:17):
So I guess yeah, I think he was going for
the big standing ovation and he didn't quite get it.
So yeah, he looked beat up, beat up and tire.

Speaker 2 (54:27):
Yeah yeah, yeah, great call. We appreciate that. Good, good
topic to bring up. Thanks again Larry for the call.
As always, you know in verse with that finish, it
did kind of deflate the crowd obviously, that's why they
didn't put in the main event slought, even though I
think that match kind of deserved the main event slot. Uh,
but obviously you can tell about.

Speaker 3 (54:49):
The time, you know what, the time that it had
it had a slot, they just wouldn't matched in the tween.
But that was a main I mean there are main events.
That was the main of Man, it was the way
it was, the way it was wrestled, how long it took,
the way they acted about it, how much time they
gave in the aftermath to call a broad off. I mean,
that's that's important.

Speaker 4 (55:08):
You know.

Speaker 3 (55:08):
That was like, so it was the main event. Just
you don't have to be the main event and be
in the last two matches. You can be somewhere else
in the show. That clearly was the main event, right, And.

Speaker 2 (55:19):
There was a little bit of that sort of sad
puppy dog feeling undertaker, you know, kind of like a
scalded dog and he's kind of limping back home and
it's almost gonna they're trying to get sympathy an undertaker,
and I don't.

Speaker 3 (55:32):
Know that they clearly are give sympathy on them, and
then watch them build himself back up and you know,
have simple form root for him and they give an
underdog for once, and and that you know, that's an
interesting psychology.

Speaker 4 (55:43):
We'll see whether it was.

Speaker 2 (55:45):
Yeah, they don't have rain of cereals. They got to
have a sympathetic babyface.

Speaker 4 (55:51):
I think take it's a new ray of stereo.

Speaker 3 (55:53):
What a world, huh.

Speaker 2 (55:55):
But I mean it's only they're trying to knock them
down a little bit to get sympathy on them.

Speaker 3 (56:00):
So but you can't you didn't build up I mean,
it's happened before you can build up baby faces. So
so they're they're so unbeatable that you lose any they
lose any sympathy. The people figure they're gonna win, and
they kind of stopped following them. That I've definitely seen
that where they were guys who have gotten just too
big and.

Speaker 4 (56:21):
You need to be you know, you need.

Speaker 3 (56:22):
To beat them Yeah, you need to beat them and
show that they're beatable and so people get that rooting interest.
By no one wants Texas to win the national championship
every year. I don't know, you're talking the wrong person
about that, Burrice. So I got to think I never
watched that Mac Brown.

Speaker 2 (56:40):
I never trust the money.

Speaker 3 (56:44):
Come on now, that's yeah, you.

Speaker 2 (56:49):
Didn't watch the behind the scenes of the ESPN and
he's feature on the ESPN dot com all last week
behind the scenes of the Texas programs.

Speaker 4 (56:56):
Yeah I read some of that.

Speaker 10 (56:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (56:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (57:00):
Anyways, nobody is on the phone lines right now, So
if you want to jump on the phone lines and
talk uh with James Caudwell, that'd be your host, Torch
assistant editor and Bruce Mitchell your co host, you can
jump on the phone lines in the last seven minutes
before the top of the hour when we will be
covering raw on pterbe towards dot com. And that number
again is six four, six seven to one nine eight eight. First,

(57:23):
I'll pose this question to you. We pose this question
of the readers on peterbeitwarch dot com. How long do
you think rand Jorton's current tyle rain is going to last?
Is it short term deal kind of a cinema I'm
happy at to night a champions type run. Is it
maybe to the end of the year, all the way
to WrestleMania where? How long do you think Orton's gonna

(57:43):
hold the title?

Speaker 3 (57:45):
You know what, I will say this, It just makes
me cringe when they go there's six guys from the
ring and they've held the world poddle seventy five todds
listens off. It's just awful. I mean, number one, there's
not two worlds. So while we have two world titles,
I mean, you know, I understand that when you've got
different companies and you're trying to claim it, but in
the same company, that's bad enough. I have one world champion.

(58:08):
But I don't know. I think they would I think
they would do themselves a favor by by having and
I would say he'll do this, but having a guy
hold on to the title for months and months and
months and months and months and in.

Speaker 4 (58:20):
The in the year and see.

Speaker 3 (58:21):
I mean, I guess people will have a hard tack.
But you know, instead of just trading it around like
this party favor. But no, I think he'll have a
long term, four month title and that'd be my guess
based on nothing, by.

Speaker 2 (58:34):
The way, right and then you know, we we we
could be proved wrong on tonight's show. We could be
proved wrong at the taping right now. Who knows. But
that's the and that's the thing. You know, w W
uses that that title of you know, w B champion
and I'm sorry, the w B championship and the won't
anyweight championship. To me, a championship is something that's won

(58:56):
in an annual basis. You know your NFL championship, you're
your World Series championship. And that's where every refuse to
acknowledge is from editorial standpoint. The label that WW is
trying to slap on this because it's not a championship,
you don't win it.

Speaker 3 (59:10):
Everything, well, I could not just agree with you more. Really,
at the season for restlers are tougher than football players
and hockey players and baseball players, and you have basketball players.
They don't take time off.

Speaker 4 (59:24):
There's no season.

Speaker 3 (59:26):
But boxing, boxing doesn't have Boxing doesn't doesn't work up
to one title fighter year. You have you know, in UFC,
either you have it, you have a championship, you defend it.
I mean that's it's just there's no season. It's just
the type of sport with combat sports usually do not
have a season. Now in the other combat sports, whether

(59:46):
it's whether it's worked or or shoot. On the other
combat sports, you know, the individual fighters can take time,
you know, the individual performers can take time off and
work their way back. But because they get paid, you know,
on the ones that right, But no, I disagree with
the World Championship is the world championship. And you know,
to me, it's sort of like what's the biggest you know,

(01:00:07):
are you are you drawing enough hands across a big
enough geographic area to be able to call yourself a
world World Championship. Nobody draws all the way across the world,
no one ever has. I mean, Luke does traveled much
as anybody, but he didn't go everywhere, and dew D
certainly doesn't. But they certainly do travel all that. I

(01:00:29):
think there's a big argument to make the T and
A is not a world tile and that if it's
because it's just it just doesn't go to enough places
and it isn't seen in enough places and drawing up money,
enough interest in enough places. Even though you know, if
they go to Europe, they've been to Australia, blah blah blah,
they've been to Japan, but they don't go there consistently,

(01:00:50):
and there's not.

Speaker 2 (01:00:51):
The interest statistically there either.

Speaker 4 (01:00:53):
Stre But that's just you know.

Speaker 3 (01:00:55):
I don't know you have to like a just to
the just in the modern era. But though I could,
I have to disagree with you their chains, I really do.

Speaker 2 (01:01:05):
And I disagree with you verse. I mean, to me,
a championship, how dare you something? Yeah, it's something to
me that's an an annual basis, and to me it's
a title. I mean, raaniort Holds, I mean, he's a champion,
is the ww champion. But to me, he's holding a title.
He's not holding a championship. And that's what that's where
I disagree with WV ON. I mean, I know they're
trying to market it and and bring it, you know,

(01:01:27):
bring it up to twenty ten and get away from
you know, NWA World's Heavyweight title and that sort of thing.
But to me, you know, it's something that to me,
the contestant at WrestleMania every year to call it a championship,
you know, and.

Speaker 3 (01:01:40):
Well you know it was also it's different than TA sports,
and it's then in combat sports, because combat sports, to
be the champion, you know, to be the man, you
had to beat the man. You know, if someone beats
you know, the first team that beats New Orleans, which
doesn't look like it's going to be the San Francisco,
but the first team to beat New Orleans is not
to come through World champions They started over at the

(01:02:02):
beginning of the year. And as much as I'm gonna
hate to ad lift this, the Blue Dells are not
the defending national champions. They're the national champions of two thousand,
you know, two thousand and two thousand and ten.

Speaker 4 (01:02:13):
And then you.

Speaker 3 (01:02:14):
Saw it all over when the best ball season thoughts,
yeah here that you hear those beautiful you know you
hear that that whisper across the college basketball world back
to back, so.

Speaker 2 (01:02:27):
Already throwing it out there. Nice, uh, just a a
font just this was fall I got you no a
good discussion of Bruce, let's go ahead and squeeze in
one more phone call. We had something hop on the
line as we were talking let's go ahead and go
actually own the person hopped off, So I guess our
our championship versus title discussion just sent them away. But first,

(01:02:47):
what are you looking forward to?

Speaker 15 (01:02:48):
You?

Speaker 2 (01:02:48):
On tonight's round, we have Wade Barrett versus John Cena,
which I thought they would save for Hell in the Cell.
Maybe they they'll still have the rematch of the TV
rematch whatever. Uh what was your take out on that
match up on tonight Show and anything else done Rock today?

Speaker 3 (01:03:04):
I I guess I'm probably interested in that anything just
because I want to see how they get way there
through a match with with John Cena. I mean, I
don't know that we've seen way Bear put on a
full scale name of that performance. And John Cena I.

Speaker 4 (01:03:21):
Think is good.

Speaker 3 (01:03:22):
I think he's underrated, but I don't know if he's
that good at carrying a guy with the level you know,
with the level of way there. Of course you have
the you have the option of running in, running next
to in and out. And I had this feeling and
I know this is not the nase, but but since
but since we're seeing you know, but since we're since

(01:03:44):
we saw there get a pin fall on John Cena.
God forbid that anybody lose interested in John Cena, the
merchandise and revenue driver that he is and so John
Cena's got to get his ten back on television in
front of news and more people than saw wait there,
get a pin on him. I hope that's not what

(01:04:05):
they're thinking.

Speaker 4 (01:04:05):
So we'll see.

Speaker 3 (01:04:06):
I'm I'm probably interested in Matt anything.

Speaker 2 (01:04:09):
Yeah, in Nexus and their longevity or what seems to
be a lack thereof to me. So what Yeah, I
definitely see about that first. Thanks for thanks for joining
on a live cast today. Down to the last ten
seconds or so, I want to go and plug PTERB
torts dot com live coverage or I guess real time
on your network covering the raw PTERB towrds dot com,

(01:04:29):
slash go vip to get the roundtable last night's pay
per view. Thanks for joining us on the live cast.

Speaker 16 (01:04:43):
I'm Chris Maitland and I'm Justin McClelland we host Wrestling
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Speaker 17 (01:04:52):
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Speaker 16 (01:05:00):
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Speaker 17 (01:05:07):
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Speaker 16 (01:05:13):
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Speaker 4 (01:05:19):
How can I like?

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Speaker 17 (01:05:28):
Actually, Chris, I think we stick pretty much to wrestling.

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No, I mean Beyond Wrestling out of Wooster, Oh right.
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Speaker 2 (01:06:00):
You're all listening to the PW Torch Live Cast. This
is PW Torch Assistant editor James Caldwell posting today on
Friday the September the seventeenth, twenty ten, and I'll be
going solo today on the Live cat today. So I
want to go ahead and give out the number right
away as we want plenty of callers. I know we've
had a lot of callers left on hold in the

(01:06:23):
last couple of weeks, so today we want to take
a ton of calls, and today is a great day
to go ahead and get on the phone lines and
join us on the live cast with a lot to
talk about today, a WW pay per view on Sunday,
TNA back on TV this week with their impact and
reaction shows last night already have ratings in from next
we'll discuss that Matt already obviously still in the news

(01:06:47):
with him on Twitter throughout the last twenty four hours
or so en teen at potentially his future is not
with WWE, so we can talk about that as well. So,
like I said, lots of talking about the number of
calls through a jump on the phone lines and get
right in line. Two people in hold already, you give
me number three in line right now, And that number

(01:07:09):
of calls a listening to us live is six four
six seven two one nine eight two eight And let's
just go ahead and start off on the phone lines
and let's go to the two eight one aery code.
And I believe this is Jay and out of Houston. Jay,
how are you doing today? Jay? Are you with us?

(01:07:30):
Let's let's see. Let's try. Uh, let's try to four
one five areas code four one five. You're on the air.
Welcome to the show. Please say tame where you're from?

Speaker 3 (01:07:38):
Going on as Jonathan presents.

Speaker 2 (01:07:40):
Let's go, Hey Johnathan, good to have you on the
show today. It's go on, let's go with uh. Last
night's T and A Tommy Dramer, what was that?

Speaker 6 (01:07:52):
Tommy?

Speaker 2 (01:07:53):
Dreamer just does not parcour And that was just horrible
And IT'SOK, twenty five minutes for that whole segment the end.
I was just sitting there like can this please stop?
And it was just way too long. Yeah, And I
think way Keller in his impact report kind of really
stummed it up, which is that he came across like Dreamer,

(01:08:16):
you know, Dreamer's character, Dreamer himself, the overall writing of
that storyline, like he came across like they assumed Dreamer
is bigger and a bigger deal than he actually is.
And that was for the first rate and ash to
that prom al and the back and forth. The entire
storyline is that, you know, it's presented as if this
is like Rick Clair and you know, in his prime

(01:08:38):
confronting uh, you know, a major act from uh, from
that era, from that same era. I mean, this is
Tommy Dreamer who's passed his prime, uh, acting like he
sei bigger is you know, do you want to say
his character is acting like it's a bigger deal than
he really is. And there's nobody there left from the
e CW angle he said to the angle is is

(01:08:58):
virtually not existing, and they're trying to present Kendrick as
the future leader of ECW or whatever or EV two
point oh. It just it comes across so out of touch,
you know, Jonathan, I mean, is that kindly the same
sense that you got, which is just it's just kind
of out of touch with the reality of where EV
two point oh, ECW, Tommy Dreamer, this whole angle is

(01:09:21):
right now in twenty ten. Yeah, that's pretty much just
like just seeing him from the ECW that I watched
and what I watched in the w W. It's like
and then this guy goes on and I can't what
he was doing, and.

Speaker 3 (01:09:35):
You know, putting over the young guys and everything.

Speaker 2 (01:09:37):
I'm all, I'm all for that, but just it was
just really just long and out drawn and it was
I gotta be like the lowest rated segment of that show.
I'm sorry. And do you have any details on what
happened between JBL and the ECW announcer of Jelly Styles
way back when? I guess, Uh, JBL will yeah, job

(01:10:03):
and I think the Uh. We don't have the quarter
our ratings for impact yet. We'll probably get those on Monday,
but we do have the initial impact ratings on pebe
towards dot com. UH viewership was about one point five
million viewers, which was up from one point four to
oh the last couple of weeks. UH, still lower than
where they were in July when they're doing about one

(01:10:23):
point five to one point six.

Speaker 5 (01:10:26):
UH.

Speaker 2 (01:10:26):
Demographic ratings remain the biggest concern.

Speaker 6 (01:10:29):
UH.

Speaker 2 (01:10:29):
Looking just looking at my chart, UH, in my spreadsheet here,
the demographic ratings are below a zero point seven UH.
And that's I mean, zero point seven is basically the
bottom probably the lowest acceptable point for PNA impact on
Thursday nights. If you go back to we put this
five years ago flashback up uh yesterday on the website

(01:10:52):
and the very very very first impact show on TV
on a Saturday night and a less than desire what timeslot?
Did he zero point seven in that Mail eighteen and
thirty four demography? This last night showed at a point
sixty seven in that same demographic. And granted it's a
little bit different TV environment, it's a lots different competition

(01:11:13):
on Thursday, I mean Thursday night competition on TV, especially
on cable TV.

Speaker 6 (01:11:17):
It's just brutal, but.

Speaker 2 (01:11:18):
It's still no excuse for where TNA is in that
demographic rating. Needs to look at the last five weeks.
It's point seven point sixty six point seven to two
point seven point sixty seven. Though it's the last five
weeks and that Mail eighteen and thirty four demographic that
is TNA's key demo, and obviously what they're doing is
not connecting with that demographic. It's not a desire, it's

(01:11:41):
not a destination program for Mail viewers on Thursday night,
whether it's Footballer, Jersey Shore, whatever other programming is on
TV and Thursday nights in primetime is grabbing that demographic
and that's that's a concerning factor, and that's something that
Spike's gonna be concerned about and something that TNA needs
to be concerned about. I don't know what that Cory
Robert did yet, Jonathan, and I'm very curious like you are,

(01:12:03):
to find out what that that segment did, uh during
the show. As far as JDL and Joey Styles, you know,
it was kind of it was easy on you, kind
of coming onto JBL's turf. Uh. That's how JBL and
a lot of those locker room guys like a hardcore Holly,
that's how they viewed the s W guys coming into
w W to can do their one eyed Stan pay

(01:12:25):
per view. I mean JBL hardcore Holly. They had a
reputation for being bullies backstage in the locker room. So
Joey Styles, you know, does the the the work Shoot
promo on the w roster, and you know it led
to them trying to make a I want to see
a legit BF. But they were trying to create the

(01:12:45):
illusion that there was a legit beef uh that was
carried out in the work shoot. So I mean to
me that I mean it's all water in the bridge now.
At the time though, it was, uh, it was fascinating
to look at, uh, you know, trying to separate the
the work from the shoot aspect of jblversus Joey styles.
And it certainly wasn't. It was all during that time

(01:13:07):
of the Matt Hardy and the lead on the Edge
Workshoot with w B taking that real life issue between
Hardy and Edge and taking it into on the TV
and greatness thrilling out event.

Speaker 18 (01:13:18):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:13:18):
And to me, that's almost what Matt Hardy is doing
right now on Twitter, is his new pr avenue is
going on Twitter, and you know he's he's been doing
this for most of the year, talking about you know,
management is holding him down. Drew mcintentror does not belong
in w B. Drew mcintarre's taking my spot. He's been
doing that workshoot angle on Twitter throughout the year and

(01:13:39):
now it's expanding to this week talking about TNA and
saying in his future is not in ww and it
very well well, it very well could be. We might
get a note on the website on w w's website
this weekend or next week indicating that Hardy is along
with the company. I say that with no source and

(01:14:00):
on that, but that's just my inclination and my my
educated guest on that. So kind of an interesting workshoot
environment that we're in about five years after those two
items that Jathan you mentioned, Joey Styles and JBL. Did
you have any other question or fall up on that. Yeah,
let's go back to t n A last night. And sure,

(01:14:22):
I like how they did the the Angle with Angle.

Speaker 3 (01:14:25):
And h and Jeff Party and they went into reaction
that way.

Speaker 2 (01:14:30):
But do you think that's gonna hurt them within the ratings?
Like you know, everybody usually turns off the TV once,
you know, TNA goes off their poor audience and then
it goes into reaction, which gets a lower rated you know,
get lower ratings. So do you think that's gonna help
reaction because I read on the website that actually helped

(01:14:52):
reaction get up to like nine hundred and something thousand people. Yeah, exactly,
And that's kind of what I I how I analyzed
the which is that it seemed like a I mean,
look at reaction in the previous weeks, not last week
they were preempted, but the week before they did let
me pull it up. They did six hundred and ninety

(01:15:12):
two thousand viewers, and that was about about thirty to
forty percent off of what that first premiere episode did
one point one million viewers. So I think there's a
I think that overrun was a way to artificially inflate
the rating and the viewership for Reaction and to potentially
keep it on the air TNA kind of. I believe

(01:15:33):
they committed to ten episodes of Reactions, so this is
a this is a fit episode PNA and Eric Fischoff
and Jason Hervey and Dixie Carter. They needed something from
that reaction show in the viewership in the o R
ratings to go to Spike TV and say, look, you know,
I know, obviously it's gonna be down for the premiere.
Obviously people are going to tune in for the premiere,

(01:15:56):
and some people are gonna like it and they're gonna
tune out. But look, look, look we're almost back to
the mere viewership. And they needed that, and I believe
that's why they did that overrun, so that they could
get that artificial boost and TV viewership and uh don't
have the quarter hours on Reaction to find out, you know,
was there a steep decline after the overrun with England

(01:16:16):
hardy was it kind of steady, wasn't it? You know,
a slight drop, you know, it's kind of what you
would expect for reaction. Don't have that yet, but I'll
be very fascinated to find out if there was a
major drop after that first quarter hour for the overrun.
And and that's so I'm viewing it as an opportunity
to artificially inflate reaction trying to sell that show despite

(01:16:38):
you need to get picked up because right now, like
I said, spike one committee in ten weeks. So that's
gonna help their case, even if even if it is
artificially inflated. But that was what helped their case. So
was it a good move for impact Johnson? You know,
if you were starts to tune out, tune out because
they're concerned about not getting that that finish of the

(01:17:02):
main event within that two hours, and you know, maybe
they dB hard or they just only have time for
two hours. They don't have time to sit down to
watch watch reaction. It has potential to turn away viewers,
but I don't think it'll make a significant difference. I
think that the biggest factor is the overall product and
the focus. And we saw this on Reaction last night,

(01:17:23):
just so much focused on power trips and office politics
and struggles and guys, you know, non wrestlers and wrestlers
who have nothing to do with championship chases or being
in the title picture. Just kidding, so much TV time
to talk about angles that don't matter. Yeah, I'm tired

(01:17:44):
of power struggles and almost from Aaron Bischoff talking about
who has the power, who's fighting for power. It's just
it's so old. It had its time when it was novel.
Now it's just old and a rehash of a rehash
of his zero time xerox. And I think when you
go to the Way they hid Jeff Forty versus Kardingle

(01:18:06):
and Johnson, he kind of talked about this a little
bit when you when you mentioned it and you brought
it up. The hype that match, I thought that was
pretty good. They had a really nice hype video. Obviously
there's a lot of logic holes the way that match
finished at the pay per view and no surrender the
way it finished on Reaction last night, kind of an
extension of Impact with two referees in the ring at

(01:18:26):
the same time, and a non finished when they're guarantee
to finish. I mean, that's just that crappy teena booking.
So that setting that aside the heights, that match was
pretty good and it was a compelling matches that people
want to see because they maybe they heard about it
or they watched on pay per view and they want
to see the rematch. They want to see the true
window who's the better man, And of course TNA failed

(01:18:49):
to actually you know, deliver that. But that's how you
hype the match with something on the line regarding the
championship chase, regarding a title picture, and that's what I
think what one of the strength of that show was
a hype for that match.

Speaker 1 (01:19:02):
So anytime you're watching ww E Raw or SmackDown or
AEW Dynamite in particular, send us an email if you've
got thoughts on the show or a topic you want
us to address or a question for us. Wadekeller Podcast
at pwtorch dot com, Wadkeller Podcast at pewtorch dot com.
If there's anything else going on in pro wrestling that

(01:19:23):
you want us to address on our main podcast during
our mailbank segments. That same email applies Wadekeller podcast at
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what you think of what we're saying, and let us
know what you want us to talk about and ask
us specific questions. Wadkeller podcast at PW torch dot com.

Speaker 2 (01:19:43):
I drove to any of our question or following. Yeah,
just you know, just the whole hype of the match.
I think that's what's wrestler's missing, is just overall hype.
It does like just two guys going into the ring
having a battle and just settle it like men or
is that don't like women? I think that's what that's

(01:20:04):
usually what sells wrestling. It's not gimmicks, it's not all
this other nonsense that's in wrestling with storylines and the
you know, T and A just pretty much took the
Vince McMahon, Stephanie and Shane's storyline and moved it over
to TNA. That's what we're seeing right now. They're just
this silly. This is overall silly. It's like, first of all,

(01:20:24):
if Dixie is the owner of the company, wouldn't she
just override everybody anyway? Yeah, well, that's how it works
in my company. It's like, you know, like the bas says,
what the ball says, the boss, you know, is what goes.
It's like it makes no it makes really no sense
when you really listed down. Yeah, no it's not. It's

(01:20:47):
like just because Hulk Cogan has a big name, he
could tell the boss what to do, or you know,
even Eric bischoff idea for the Three Way was perfect.
So you're telling me Dixie Carter has a better idea
than Eric Bischoff or better than Hulk Hogan's. It's like,
it's just mind bottle and it's like, why do I
watch this stuff?

Speaker 3 (01:21:08):
Like it Hardy Hardy and Tangos match was perfect, and.

Speaker 2 (01:21:13):
Then they throw in this nonsense with it exactly and
you get to the real the realism of it, which is, well,
like when you have a president of a company and
she is the ultimate authority on this show, that's the
way she's been presented. Everything should be she should be

(01:21:33):
able to veto everything, and there should not be a conflict.
It's just it's just realistic. If you're going to do
a power struggle storyline, at least make it realistic. And
they were okay with it a couple of months ago
when they kind of had that boardroom meeting and Hogan
and Bishoff were sitting around talking to Dixie and trying
to be in her ear, but everything kind of went
through Dixie and that you know that that's the fine

(01:21:56):
line you can walk with this. I'm not in favor
of doing it because, like you said, Jonathan, it should
be about two guys going into the ring and filling
an issue. It should be about the talent. It should
be about the wrestlers who are on your roster getting
the TV time and the focus the intention. But if
you're gonna do the power struggle, don't have the president
look weak, don't have to look unrealistic because she's being

(01:22:19):
vetoed h and she's not using her veto power and
she's kind of walking off saying no comment, it's not realistic.
And then he's throwing the Abyss deal where he's basically
halfway murdering people and nobody bad tonye.

Speaker 6 (01:22:35):
And we had a lot of readers kind.

Speaker 2 (01:22:36):
Of write about this in her reacts and on peb
towards dot com today, our question of the day was,
you know, what was your reaction last at Impact and
what was your reaction to what is your general reaction
to TNA sitting up the threeway match bound for Glory,
and two things that jumped out in the editing and
posting the reacts is people were upset with the last

(01:23:00):
attention to realism. If you're gonna have Abyss nearly murder
someone backstage, there has to be consequences. He nearly murdered RVD,
he got a pay per view match. He nearly murders
someone backstage, and nobody mentions it again, Nobody back to
an eye. It's not realistic. It's not paying attention to
details of viewers sitting at home saying Okay, I can

(01:23:23):
suspend my disbelief to a certain extent. I can even
extend my suspend my disbelief that DIXI Mrtter is allowing
Eric Bishop and whot covid it gotta run the company.
And maybe there's a little bit of power struggle. But
where it falls apart is that Dixie should have ultimate
veto power as a president and Abyss should have been

(01:23:43):
hold away to jail for what he did backstage. It's
just just watching that is so lacking on impact. And
I think that more than anything, those two things and
just in general, the lack of attention to detail with
the finishes, the matches, and when you're trying to do
these soap opera storylines and they become so unrealistic that

(01:24:05):
you just cannot suspend your disblief anymore. Those two things,
more than anything, I think, hurt teenage products and disallow
an opportunity to grow. And if they went back to
focusing on two guys in a feud, in a matchup
and seeing that matchup play out, I think eventually they
would grow their audience. Look at the Exhibition title match

(01:24:27):
last night. Jay Lean's are Doug Williams You're giving away
a title match on a free TV and principle I
don't agree with that, but you can still pull it
off if you hype that match and say, you know what,
we're gonna give away a title match. It's not given
a TV title, which is a whole nother topic, but
you're gonna give away the exhibition title match hype and
ahead of time. Why is Jaalus Living getting the title shot?

(01:24:49):
What is Doug Williams think about getting having to face
Shay Lethal. These things need to be a drafted instead,
we get the power struggle, we get the Hogan, the Bishop,
the Dixie Carter shoes. We're getting Kevin Nash and Sting
and Jeff Jard and Samo with Joe whatever that is
in John Vill you mentioned earlier. You get the long
promo with Tommy Dreamer and Fortune and Dreamer going on

(01:25:12):
and on. Those are three segments that you took. You
take two minutes away from that and hype that title
match and all that, all of a sudden that match
feels important and and P and A is just the
distribution of TV time is so it's just so off.
It's down in touch with twenty ten. That's just kind

(01:25:33):
of a fructrated element of last night's programming. H John's
a final question or common or any follow up? Yeah,
you see Saturday Morning Wrestlant coming back. You know how
they used to do in the old days, back in
the eighties where it would be superstars and Superstar Challengers
and stuff like that.

Speaker 3 (01:25:51):
Do you see any promotion, Well, I've see Chikara.

Speaker 2 (01:25:54):
They have the they have the talent to do it
because the majority of all their wrestlers are pretty gimmicks
and they can relate to children and stuff like that.
I see them doing it. But do you see WWE
or T and A or TWI or whatever other promotions
out there, seeing them get a Saturday morning spot back
to cater to you know, twelve in up. Yeah, I

(01:26:19):
mean I know Jerry Lawler tried that at Memphis, and
I mean that's it's not a national scale. It was
sort of a local Memphis TV. It didn't work out
for a lot of different reasons, mainly financial. I would
be in favor of it. I think with SmackDown leaving
my network, basically there's no more pro wrestling on network TV,
and there is still a very significant percentage of the

(01:26:42):
restling audience that does not have cable TV and just
watch a SmackDown. So, and this is not something I'm
gonna be studying. Is the unintended consequences of taking SmackDown
off my network TV and put it on Sci Fi
and whether those live event attendance numbers start to drop
and in a lot of markets where they drew up

(01:27:05):
pretty well. I mean I'm thinking of Houston where eying
him right now. A lot of SmackDown's ratings and a
lot of their audience is from Houston. It's an audience,
it's a if the town has a lot of people
that just watch basic just that basic TV. They just
have the analog box and they just watch SmackDown, uh,
and they don't watch Raw. And that's why SmackDown usually tours.

(01:27:27):
I'm sorry, that's why WNB usually brings SmackDown to Houston
because they draw I mean, they drawing twelve thousand people
on a Sunday night house show non tolevised here in
Houston before. So there's going to be a void in
in network TV broadcasting for wrestling. So I would be
in favor of w B, even if it's just a

(01:27:47):
h an action zone of Velocity, a live wire, you
name it, sort of weekend program, even making a new one.
They've got to have a network TV president. And wb
is kind of downplayed this because they want to hype
the sci fi move and they want to hype that
as a an important step for their SmackDown brand. Then
gotta find a way to stay on network TV. There

(01:28:09):
are still a number of people who watch just SmackDown, uh,
and they don't watch any of the cable TV programming.
So I'm gonna be interested to find out if the
live event intend's kind of drops long term after this
movement and whether w W does anything to correct that.

Speaker 8 (01:28:28):
TNA.

Speaker 2 (01:28:29):
I don't see them getting a network TV. I think
they're you know that they're working on US FIKE TV
and trying to get those numbers up. I don't see
them going to network TV. I don't see any other
early promotion getting a network TV time slaw. I just
I just don't see it happening. So we'll see, though,
I mean, you never know. You never know what's in

(01:28:49):
the python that we don't know about. But Jonathan, good call.
Glad to have you on the show today. Let's let's
try two one again. Move it to Jayatta Houston.

Speaker 4 (01:28:57):
Here you with us?

Speaker 2 (01:28:59):
Yes, I am man, I'm sorry I missed you all
doing that person minute. Turning out to my car. I
surprised you because usually when we get you on about
twenty minutes ten. I got you in about two minutes cent,
So yeah, go ahead. What do you first say?

Speaker 5 (01:29:12):
All right?

Speaker 19 (01:29:13):
I have a question about Samoa Jones NA if he's
still in the doghouse, because they're not doing anything with him,
and and I was wondering what do Bishop and Hope
and particularly think of Samoa Joe and what do they
think of aj styles because I think Joe has really
gotten the shaft, and I'm just wondering what upper management

(01:29:36):
honestly thinks of him. And you know, because that's the
determining fallator of whether or not they jump when their
contracts are up, because because even though they pretty much
built PNA, you know, you know, if if.

Speaker 9 (01:29:50):
You're feeling under appreciated, you know, you know, they're gonna say, hey,
well they'll do I may they have to be campion,
but at least I will get a lot of money hopefully.

Speaker 3 (01:29:58):
So what's your teen on that?

Speaker 2 (01:30:01):
You know, I've talked to people in TNA about how
people how people view Samoa Joe you sort of the
Bishoff Pokers, Tame and especially his involvement in this program
with UH with Nash and Staying and Jared. And there's
two different opinions. One is people view it as they
think highly of him because they're putting them in this

(01:30:22):
program and us as viewers and is trying to evaluate
what if this makes any business? Then we see this
as a field program. I think in TNA they view
it as well, we're getting TOMOI Joe on TV time
and exposure because we're investing a lot of time into
this program. So some people think, well, they view it
as Samoa Joe is a valuable asset that we're putting

(01:30:45):
into a program that's seen a lot of TV time
and attention, so maybe they view him highly. Another school
thought is that it's punishment put him in this program
because it's drags down The show drags down SAMO with Joe,
he's not benefiting as if you were watching this, I
don't feel like he's benefiting at all being involved in this,

(01:31:07):
despite the amount of TV time it's getting. So, you know,
how does management views Joe and Styles in general away
from these programs. I think they view them as guys
they can feature in a certain role, not in the
not in the permanent main event level, because they weren't

(01:31:28):
on They weren't on national TV during the Attitude era
or w CW, and that's just kind of mean. You
look at the booking and how they present look at
the booking of of Teenage Pods and how they present
their show and how they write it. It's so heavy
on w CW's themes, and it's so heavy on ww
talent and in former w W stars. So Joe and

(01:31:49):
Styles because they weren't on TV and because they had
the audacity to not uh, to not be featured during
the Attitude era or during w CW's time. It's like
it's the put it. It's like a mark against them.
Even though they are fresh new stars and fresh new
talent who can bring something different to the program, they're
kind of put in those those secondary.

Speaker 3 (01:32:09):
Roles, but never in a top spot.

Speaker 2 (01:32:12):
Uh. You know, they took the puddle off aj Styles
when he was in the middle of he was a
doctor's kind of take off his champion, I felt, and
they took the belt off him and they put an
RVD right when he joined the company. Samoa. Joe's been
kind of floating around doing nothing most of this year.
You know, they'll do something here and there, but they
haven't really found a way to feature him, and now

(01:32:33):
he's kind of stuck in this Jared Sting Nash program.
They view them as guys that can use and have
a good match and appeal to a certain demographic, appeal
to the younger male demo. But they they just you know,
based on the book, and they don't feel they are
guys to build the entire company around, the entire brand around.
Otherwise Styles would sim of the champions, and right now

(01:32:56):
we've probably seen the styles versus Simon Joe feud, and
it would it would help lose viewership and interest in
minds if it was properly hyph so Jay. I just
you know, they view them as as probably right below
the top tier, and I don't know if we'll see
them viewed any differently as long as this regime is

(01:33:16):
in powered.

Speaker 20 (01:33:23):
I'm Kelly Wells, host of the Seven Star podcast, the
new ongoing Torch show covering the world of New Japan
pro wrestling. We'll drop new episodes as major shows and
noteworthy events Dictate, and.

Speaker 21 (01:33:35):
I'm Chris Lansdell join us as we covered the ever
changing landscape of New Japan as they navigate an era
with no lack of talent, but I really need to.

Speaker 2 (01:33:43):
Create some new stars.

Speaker 3 (01:33:45):
You can stream the new seven Stop podcasts now from
Pro Wrestling Talk.

Speaker 2 (01:33:58):
So then it's coming answer to that. Did you have
another question or full up on that?

Speaker 15 (01:34:02):
Yeah?

Speaker 9 (01:34:02):
I had to follow up, had another quick question.

Speaker 7 (01:34:05):
Sure.

Speaker 3 (01:34:06):
My follow up is why.

Speaker 19 (01:34:07):
Didn't they just leave the belt on RVD or have
him if he's coming back to soon, why didn't they
just have him drop it to somebody.

Speaker 2 (01:34:14):
I personally thought that they if they were gonna go all.

Speaker 3 (01:34:16):
The way with RVD, they should have had them defend
the title.

Speaker 9 (01:34:18):
Against Angle Joe and then have him drop it to
Hearty Aboun for glory. That's what I would have done.
And I would have kept Kennedy Hill because he was
really on a roll and I think he's lost a
lot of momentum long term. Short term, this momentum is
looking pretty good, but I think long term the fans
will turn on him again like they did when he first.

Speaker 19 (01:34:41):
Came to TNA. And my follow up is where did
the company honestly view Jared?

Speaker 9 (01:34:48):
And that I love asking about those guys.

Speaker 2 (01:34:51):
Did you say, how does the company view Jared Nash?

Speaker 3 (01:34:54):
Yes?

Speaker 9 (01:34:55):
Yes, Howard Jered and Nash views?

Speaker 3 (01:34:56):
Are they viewed this top tier of talent?

Speaker 2 (01:35:01):
Yes, you know, from better or worse? It goes back
to the opposite of Joe and Styles, which is they
were on on national TV during the Attitude era or
the money in that Wars. It's so w CW. It's
it's featuring Nash and it's sort of a power struggle storyline,
same as w CW.

Speaker 6 (01:35:20):
The same with Jeff Jared.

Speaker 2 (01:35:22):
All the power struggles of Vince Russ so that everyone
loves the remembers from w CW, so they view of
them as valuable commodities, as big stars as you know,
kind of Eric Bischoff. Uh the term that he uses
the established talent that rate well with older adults, And
I don't agree. I mean, obviously that they bring star power,

(01:35:43):
but when you don't know how to use them, then
their value is non existent. They just they don't bring
anything to the show if you don't know how to
use the established stars. So latna use them highly. Otherwise
they would they would not be pretty, they would not
have put up with you know, look at Scott Hall.
Scott Hall was given so many chances earlier this year. Uh,
and they eventually just kind of cut time to him.

(01:36:05):
But he was given more chances than anybody all of
a sudden that roster probably would have because of the
star power and his name's ran value. And and TENA
has desired to field Major League because they have all
these former stars RvDs. I think that t and as
and obviously there's other reasons such as he ran out

(01:36:25):
of his dates and they felt the need to go
ahead and take the title off of him and and
set up a revenge match, you know with Abyss down
the road. You know, I believe it set down for glory.

Speaker 15 (01:36:36):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:36:36):
No explore there. You can pay attention to booking. Uh,
but uh, you know, it's one of those things where
I think TNA assumes their audience has the attention span
of a five year old child. And so rbody's held
a belt for you know what four months? Three months? Uh,
and then you know that they figure the audience is bored.
So what's what can we do? Well, let's just have

(01:36:58):
a major injury Angle and let's have a tournament. Let'
shake things up, not really recognizing that no fans want
to get behind somebody who's gonna come along and challenge RVD,
and you're gonna set up that big match where RVD
has held that belt for so long and he's kind
of gone through the available challengers and then he gets

(01:37:19):
to Kurt Angle. Hey, kerr Angle has gone to the
top ten. For wherever the top ten is value is worth.
They haven't even announced the top ten in two months now,
but Angle goes to the top ten. He obviously, you
know that means he's one nine matches in a row.
I guess at that point ten and he gets the champion.
So all of a sudden, you have RVD, who has

(01:37:42):
gone through every other challenger. Let's say he's won six
matches in a row, he's defended the title for six months.
Kerr Angle has gone through the top ten. Wow, that's
a big matchup. Those are two guys who have gone
through talent top talent in TNA. They've run the gauntlet. Man,
now we're getting the page that, we're getting the and
we're getting the colts. We're getting the fourteen to OH

(01:38:03):
team versus the fourteen to oh teams. Man, I cannot
wake to his matchups because these two guys on the roll.
That's basic for wrestling, and TNA just operates the exact
opposite mentality, which is that, oh, no, people are gonna
get bored. We gotta change it. Why all of do
we just have to It's it's such a it's such
an inefficient booking philosophy that you know, if they had

(01:38:28):
if they had RVD versus Uh, kerr Angle ready to
go bound for Glory twenty ten. RVD has been the
champion since against march Rafel Uh and Angles comes to
the top ten that's a money match. That's a big match.
Now you have hurt angle o verus Jeff Hardy versus
mister Anderson after two non finishes, two screwy finishes to

(01:38:49):
kurting overs Jeff Hardy, and you're interjecting mister Anderson, and
you know that's it's not a bad thing, but it's
not a one on one matchup. In the reaction that
we've got sort of the towards readers writing in about
that matchup, they're very down on that matchup. And we'll
put a pull up probably in this weekend or maybe
next week. We'll kind of get a hard number on

(01:39:13):
the audience. There are readers reaction to the three way match,
but my sense is that people are not excited about
the three way match, whether it's because there's a three
way and we've seen so many multiple man matches and
we're gonna another one on Sunday with WWE, or just
interjecting Anderson, who doesn't feel like a big enough star yet.
I mean, look at earlier this year, he lost a

(01:39:33):
lot of matches. Earlier this year, he wasn't in a
role He's lost a ton. He wasn't a pope in
his semi final matchup. You know, Pup's a mind card
w wrestler who's sort of an upper mid car Guyantna,
but it doesn't feel like a big deal that goes
to the Pope, no knock on him, just the way

(01:39:53):
he's sort of been booked, and he just doesn't have
that that momentum behind him, so he got to be Anderson.
It is not quite at Angle at Hardy's level. It
doesn't feel anywhere close to what and sort of a
Patriots versus Colts matchup of RBD versus kur angle would
feel like. And for the destination is it's just not

(01:40:16):
as compelling as it could have been. So I did
answer your question. I think it just got bored with
RBB a chance and started changing up by st any
other question of follow.

Speaker 22 (01:40:30):
You're totally right, Triple Threat, it seems like a It
totally seems like a mid card match. Anderson was not
ready to main event.

Speaker 2 (01:40:40):
They really could have spent time building.

Speaker 22 (01:40:42):
Up him in hope for next year, you know, you know,
just like hey, chief your eye on least two guys.

Speaker 4 (01:40:47):
So they did what you said was a.

Speaker 2 (01:40:49):
Fantastic idea built up RVD.

Speaker 22 (01:40:52):
A Angle or even joke every time defenses, every match.
If they would have let it happen on tipe of you,
I get supposed to. They don't go when he was
twenty five minutes like they left Hardy and I ain't
gonna go this past month. Everybody, not just those two,
but everybody stop with him in the TNA. You want
to come to the place and see the best professional

(01:41:12):
wrestlers on the planet, you gotta be here this whether
action's gotta be. Could you imagine tak calling that product
like he used to call SmackDown a long time ago.
You know, somebody needs to get in there and say, hey, look, look,
you got.

Speaker 2 (01:41:27):
Everything you need.

Speaker 7 (01:41:28):
Let's tweak it a little bit.

Speaker 22 (01:41:29):
And somebody's getting Dixes there and say it and that
politically correct.

Speaker 2 (01:41:35):
What doesn't step on toes?

Speaker 22 (01:41:38):
I got a whole color, Like, hey, listen, brother, you
got the best talent roster in the world. Brother, you
just gotta showcase him. You gotta make people pay for it.

Speaker 18 (01:41:46):
You know about that.

Speaker 2 (01:41:48):
That's what my opinion and the problem be is that
they go on TV and they talk about it for
ten minutes. Why have the best talent roster? Mean, while
you're sitting and walk, watching your walk, you're checking your watch,
Say okay for some wrestling. As Hogan and Bish shot
up and and the life just go on and on
about raising the bar and with the best count roster,
it's like, okay, we'll get out of the ring, let's

(01:42:09):
see some wrestling. And I you know, Paul Hayman's talking
a lot about UH interviews since kind of the the
story got out about him talking to DNA, and he
kind of put that out there and talked a lot
about what his side of it was and got that
story out. He said, you know, TN is not ready
for me. And my guess is that this is exactly
what you're talking about, Jay, which is they're not ready

(01:42:31):
to present a product that comes to the best entering
wrestling product, the invest entering stars competing for championships and
glory and prestige and and settling views in the ring,
not backstage with people getting bloodied, and it's unrealistic and
it looks like a horror flick got really really bad.

(01:42:54):
I don't think TNA is reading for that. I think
that's what Hayman was talking about. And we have quotes
from Eric bischhah Up on the website of pb torst
dot com right now. He did an interview with Brian
Fritz of FanHouse dot com and uh uh FanHouse dot
com and and talked about well, you know, I think
it was all hyperbole and and Hayman was just really
getting his name out there and talking himself up. And no,

(01:43:17):
I really do think that Hayman had a plan, And
it's just it didn't job with TNA because it would
mean that half of that management teams out of a job,
because there's you know, half a management's job is to
make sure Dixie's happy, make sure the creative force, the
creative train keeps more along spear hitded by Vince Rousso.
I mean, Dixie has loiled to Vince Russo.

Speaker 7 (01:43:39):
So what do you do?

Speaker 2 (01:43:40):
You make sure that Russo's propped up? And that made
that means that you keep a job because Dickie is happy. Uh,
And that's what I think Haymen was. Hayman said they
weren't ready for me because I am believed that, you know,
I don't know the specific don his vision, but from
what he was putting out there, it sounded like he
was gonna go back to the basics of one on
one match up, compelling feuds, compelling summer lines. Guys that

(01:44:03):
you want to see go out there and kick butt.
And let's come with Samoa. Joe is trying to be
in the in the reaction spots. Is that gonna rebel
without a call. He just wants to go out to
the ring and be a warrior, and that should be
what his character is all about, not dragging to this
mix with Jared in the national steaming stuff. You're listening
to the p B Torch podcast. This is p tow

(01:44:25):
Torch Assistant editor James Caldwell hosting Going Solo today, taking
live phone calls. I'll be on the air of the
next twenty minutes or so, so you can go in
and jump on the phone lines right now for listening
to us live and get on the phone lines, and
I'm gonna call is six four six, seven to two,
one nine, eight to eight. Let's go to our next color.

(01:44:45):
Let's go to the sixty four six injury code six
four six. Welcome to the show. Please stay you name
where you're from?

Speaker 6 (01:44:51):
Hey, what's going on? If Sosey from New York. I've
called in a few times before. I got two bows
to pick with you. Mister Cadwell, all right, what do
you have without that?

Speaker 2 (01:45:00):
All right?

Speaker 6 (01:45:00):
Bone Number one I gotta pick with you is I've
been waiting almost eight months now for this app update
coming that you guys have been talking about the new format.
Why are we finally gonna.

Speaker 2 (01:45:08):
Get the app update? It's uh right now. My understanding
is it's on Apple, and Apple is kind of uh.
They can. They have a lot of apps to process,
and I believe that we're kind of waiting for them
to process it, and and it's it's one of those
things where I want to say the update too. You know,
I'm waiting for the update, and I believe it's gonna

(01:45:29):
kick some butt when we get that that I believe
it's version three. We had an updated last year. This
should be a version three. It's gonna have some added features.
They're gonna make it a one of the best apps,
I believe anywhere on Apple iTunes. I'll make that bull proclamation. Honestly,
somebody who's not a wrestling stand would not agree, but
I me mean russing reporter, I believe it will be.

(01:45:52):
You know, that should be. That should be soon, and
I don't want to give it a week or a
month or anything like that, but it should be soon.
We're just gonna wait for Apple. I believe it.

Speaker 6 (01:46:00):
This is day and h another thing I want, Yeah,
uh well we'll go number two. I'll get to that
in a minute, because you actually answered it with that,
so it doesn't even I was gonna say one where
you're gonna finally start putting the actual physical links to
stuff in the apps.

Speaker 2 (01:46:13):
But uh yeah, you know that's gonna be included. And
the update yep, fantastic.

Speaker 6 (01:46:18):
Now the set. Now, the main thing I want to
talk about today is.

Speaker 2 (01:46:22):
Obviously, you know, the UFC, the Ultimate Fighter, complete rip
off of the old TV show Tough Enough. If it
wasn't for the TV show Tough Enough, which got such
great ratings and such a great format, UFCE, what it
never took off like how it has now? Sure?

Speaker 6 (01:46:36):
And uh, of course Stana White's been giving Vince a
run for his money for the past couple of years. Now.
My real question is why doesn't Vince just fight fire
with fire and go out there and let everybody know
that the UFC is all work.

Speaker 2 (01:46:54):
Vin.

Speaker 6 (01:46:55):
You know, I'm sorry as someone who's traded that I
have my black belt at Brazilian Jiu jitsu under so Gracie,
I can tell you for a fact it's a work.

Speaker 2 (01:47:04):
Is if you believe that it's a darn compelling work,
and it's really not because if you look at it,
I mean, when UFC first opened, who was in charge.

Speaker 6 (01:47:15):
It was the Gracy family who won the first three
UFC tournaments.

Speaker 2 (01:47:18):
The Gracy family, you.

Speaker 6 (01:47:21):
Know, Chuck Withdell was one of the biggest stars in
the UFC before Dana White owned the UFC. What did
he do for a living? He was the agent to Chuckledell.

Speaker 2 (01:47:30):
You know, you know, I mean, you can debate that
all day long, and you know I won't get into
that aspect, but I'll kind of answer your your question
on McMahon and why does that mcmon go out to
the UFC. I think two reasons. One is that ww
obviously there they believed in a different market. They believed

(01:47:51):
that they they do not want anything to do with UFC.
They do not want anything to do with brock Leicester
because USC to compete for them four dollars and they
don't want to draw any unnecessary attention to UFC. Even
if even if you if you buy that argument, and
they can go there and you know, expose or competition.

(01:48:12):
People are gonna say, you know what, I don't believe.
I don't believe a man. I don't believe them to
be I believe they're just there. There's sour grapes about
their pay per view business being down, and I believe,
you know, as a viewer gonna say, oh, I'm mean
sour grapes because USC is kicking butt and UFC took
them tough enough. They took the tough enough model and
turn it into a super compelling uh uh reality show.

(01:48:36):
Uh you know, Ultimate Fighter, and they turned the pay
per view business on a deer. They're doing killer pay
per view buys. Ohn b is just jealous and the
sour grapes because they're doing with what Ruffian used to do.
So I don't think that mcmhon wants to go that
route of a even acknowledging UFC and be not wanting

(01:48:57):
to see him like he's he's sort of a come
playing about the competition and prevent himself as as a
number two in anything. He doesn't want to be perceived
as number two and anything. You want to be perceived
as number one in everything. Uh So I think that's
kind of part of it. Also, I don't know that
McMahon have a lot of time to spend focusing on

(01:49:18):
on UFC and wanting to draw attention that, you know,
no throwing a few digs here and there. I think
there was a dig at rock Lessner on the Raw
number nine hundred, and that's about as far as you're
gonna get. You're not gonna get a direct mention or
dig at UFC. You're gonna get the back handed another backhanding,
but the sort of passive aggressive digs that at former

(01:49:43):
w wrestlers who are either you know, doing something else
in movies like with the Rock in USC, like rock
Lester or in TNA. But I don't think that May
would come out and actually say anything about that. It's
just I think he's more focused on his product right
now than anything else and trying to get over some
new stars.

Speaker 1 (01:50:00):
So thanks for downloading today's show. Take it to the
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(01:50:22):
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slash go vip.

Speaker 6 (01:50:42):
Here. I have another question for you, Yeah, I have
another question for you on that. Dan Severn, Chan Shamrock,
Kasuji Katsushi Sakuraba, Mark de Hammer, Coleman The Beast, Kevin Randallman,
Brock Lesnar, Bobby Lashley's They're Polkan Foss Routin and and

(01:51:04):
uh there was one more I forget. Oh yeah, Herndon
Tiger White. What do all these men have in common?

Speaker 2 (01:51:10):
Former pro wrestlers or at least dabbled in it.

Speaker 6 (01:51:13):
Yeah, dabbled in pro wrestling. Haven't been pro wrestlers pro
wrestlers before they were at MMA, and they were all
at the top.

Speaker 2 (01:51:19):
Of the game.

Speaker 6 (01:51:20):
I'm sorry if cheetah Ortiz was a huge mark for
the wrestling business, even cheetah ortezn't even even his real
name when he was a pro wrestling fan growing up.
He said he wants that to be his pro wrestling name.
He's admitted that in interviews. I'm sorry, I think the
parsees up. I mean, you got shel Son and there
was pretty much cutting Roddy Piper promos. Now if you
listen to them, it's all the work.

Speaker 2 (01:51:41):
I'm sorry you well, I don't. I don't agree with that,
but I believe what you're you know, So the larger
point that you can make is from what you're saying,
is that they understand how to market themselves. They understand
how to market their sport. Is if you want to
make the argument it's done as sport, I don't agree

(01:52:02):
with that, but, uh, the marketing is what they're they're doing.
What they're doing, they're taking the nineteen eighties pro wrestling,
the what Tito grew up on, what a lot of
wrestlers grew up on. What they saw, the promos they
saw Jerry Lawler promos, the hyper promos, the territory promos
that uh that that sold, the matches that sold, the

(01:52:24):
feuds that talked people into buying tickets. That they're cutting
ticket buying promos. Now when you see nw WTV and TNATV,
is nobody's cutting those money promos. They're cutting the You
look at Teddy be Teddy BIYANSTI is a perfect example
of somebody who I believe that's potential to make money
for WV. But what he's doing is mid card heel

(01:52:47):
stuff he's doing. He got heat on Monday's Raw because
he sang the song and it was bad and he's
a heel and the fans don't like him. Any noise
in the ten year olds in the audience, and that's
how he got heat. That's not gonna draw any money
for anybody at anytime. I't want anybody's universe. It's just

(01:53:07):
not And that's what de Beyonce he is. But if
he was doing a promo getting heat because he's talking
on the lead baby base and he's set up a match,
you know, he set up a match against John Zena
and is exposing Sena and talking about how you know
he can't match up with him in the ring, and
the audists say, no, I don't agree with that. I
don't believe that that's the potential money drawn heel promo.

(01:53:28):
What's the UFC fighters are doing is they're getting those
money promos that were the staple of the Territory era
and of the nineteen eighties. And then that's what UFC
is doing, is they're taking the Peroscian model. It doesn't
mean it's to work, they're just taking the marketing side
of it. Then they're applying it to how to promote
a fight. And it's so basic and simple, and I

(01:53:51):
don't get this, and why Resting the Strength so far
away from that into If you're WV, you're doing the
comedy routine. They're really campy bits with the heels who
looks silly and Luke Gallows doing the fake said fake,
you're just mocking MVPs, bawling Elboy drop on Impact, I'm
sorry on Superstars last night. Not gonna get him over

(01:54:14):
as a threat anytime soon. It's just kind of the
power for the course FORMB. Then you have TNA, which
is doing the power struggles and everything else, but focusing
on the talent and the rest in the matchups. But
when everything goes away from the matchups, then another promotion,
if it's MMA, if it's another resting company or like
Ring of honor. They come in and they focused on

(01:54:36):
the matchups, and guys have got promos on the matchup.
It feels fresh and unique and you want to pay
a money to see it, and UFC is just blown up.
They're cool. Don't end the cool factor of the UFC.
They are cool and they're hip, and they're happening and
they're now and they're taking a model that once was
old or or could be perceived as old from the

(01:54:57):
nineteen eighties and the territory era. They crushing it up.
They made it relevant and they made it new again.
And that's the part of the tickets to their success
is guys doing those money for amos and also the
quality of the fights, and they have good quality fights
on a consistent basis. That's gonna get people to want
to order the pay per view and watch the fight
nights and watch pumptonmon Fighter and see his next sojse.

(01:55:20):
You know, I don't agree with your assessments to work,
but you bring up some really good points about the
marketing that certainly does apply to what USC is doing.
So in that respect, a great caller bring up there.
Let's go ahead and grab another phone call. Let's go
to the eight sixty five area code eight sixty five.
Welcome to the show. Please six ten more year cross.

Speaker 14 (01:55:42):
And it's up many Stephen from Tennessee.

Speaker 2 (01:55:44):
Hey Stephen, what's up? What's going on today? I don't
definitely much.

Speaker 14 (01:55:48):
Ben's going off work, so it's been a good day
here right now, all right, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:55:53):
I'm trying to think of a goody.

Speaker 14 (01:55:54):
I have the greatest question, but I've just gonna when
you look at Ring of Honor, they'll take guys that
no one really knows because no one really knows and
Noe and everyone knows.

Speaker 3 (01:56:03):
I'm not gonna I'm not.

Speaker 2 (01:56:04):
Gonna win the match to the ring.

Speaker 3 (01:56:05):
Let's take it.

Speaker 14 (01:56:06):
You know, this past Monday, you had this team called
the Smash Brothers against the American Wolves. You knew the
American Wolves are gonna win, but they actually went out
there and let these other guys put on a pretty
earthly contests with him and kind of made him look
good in the sinks of bustle. You know, don't pip
a fering of honor.

Speaker 6 (01:56:23):
You have a guy and Kenny.

Speaker 14 (01:56:25):
Omega, who uh, you know, he's not gonna beat a
guy like who's a uram with chrispher Daniels, but he
goes up there and.

Speaker 18 (01:56:31):
Puts like, you know, good fifteen to twenty minute match
with him.

Speaker 14 (01:56:34):
So I kind of question is, even though like these
guys aren't really star of getting the push, can W
E or K a kind of take that formula and
use these guys can A losing tetfort.

Speaker 23 (01:56:42):
Kind of get fantasy and this guy can go in
and put a good match.

Speaker 14 (01:56:45):
You know, W you know W has done it before,
and like Sean Michaels at Wrest, so many attend where
you know he launchers her own.

Speaker 23 (01:56:52):
But because of that match you put, like, you know,
a four star effort, people start of looking at it
and thinking this guy is good, this.

Speaker 2 (01:56:57):
Guy's got something, you know what I mean exactly. And
I remember when you said that. I remember something that
we discussed a couple of weeks ago in the live cast,
which is that if you want to make new stars
and use the rest in formula to make new stars,
exactly what you said, you're taking Evan Bourne and you
and you build up for a couple of weeks that

(01:57:19):
Evan Bourne, if you got to announce, just kind of
inflate this little bit and use some creative license and say,
you know, Evan Bourne's been on a roll on the
non non televised events. He's been winning matches over Chris Jericho,
He's got victories over Edge this summer. He's gonna an
opportunity in Shamemans. We're filming them in the ring in
Shamans was a non title matchup. It's an opportunity for

(01:57:42):
him to see how he matches up with the top
level talent on TV on a big stage. We're gonna
see how he holds up. And then he goes out
there and he has a fifteen minute match. He gets
unbelievable near falls. The announcers put up put over that
that no one has really pushed Shamus to this level
before ever on TV, not even if they can say,

(01:58:04):
you know, John Tena hasn't done this, Raymy Orton hasn't
done this. Evan Borne is for real. He's pushing the
champion of the limits. Seaman eventually gets that win and
he's got to win that match. But the announcers get
over the point that, Wow, Evonbourne really pushed him. And
then you go to the next phase, which is that
Evan Bourne goes back and says, you know, what I
wanted a shot. I want another opportunity to earn a

(01:58:26):
title shot. I want another non title matchup. I believe
I can beat you this time. And then he goes
out there, and you know, they can go one or
two ways. You can have him win that match and
set up in title match, or you can have him
lose that match. But the announcers reinforced that it wasn't
a bluke. He really did push, and he pushed in
the twenty minutes this time. He really is a real deal.

(01:58:47):
And that's that you can make a star is getting
over the importance of that matchup, getting over the hype
and that story ahead of time, and a guy who
feels like he's been overlooked and now he's trying to
prove himself and he's gonna prove himself against the champions.
So that's one way to do that. Exactly what you said, Stevens.
So good point to bring up another another question or

(01:59:09):
fall up on that.

Speaker 10 (01:59:11):
Well, the quick follow up, that's this thing.

Speaker 2 (01:59:12):
It's kind of odd.

Speaker 14 (01:59:13):
That's one of their biggest stars and Sean and then
even in Austin with the Mattnis Brent where they turn
in Austin Boss and the crowd behind it, and I
think it'd be one of the things that they can see,
probably to see the biggest stars that formula.

Speaker 3 (01:59:22):
Work and it's done a why they don't go to
that well more often?

Speaker 2 (01:59:26):
I agree with you.

Speaker 3 (01:59:28):
I quick kind of question.

Speaker 14 (01:59:29):
I kind of caught the last bit of T and
A and what the devil was up with this abit
thing torturing some random deers and like what lul, I
went off.

Speaker 3 (01:59:39):
Of the thought the saw movies.

Speaker 2 (01:59:43):
You know, I think it's you know, TNA wants to
be a scripted action drama. Somebe does too, and there's
a little bit different, more a toward kids, more of
a you're seeing a mini movie every every week, every
Monday Night, you're gonna see a mini movie, sort of
a live action drama.

Speaker 24 (02:00:04):
You know.

Speaker 2 (02:00:04):
TNA is kind of the opposite, the same thing, but
the opposite, which is that you're gonna see a a
hardcore action flick and you're gonna see maybe some slasher
elements and some real dark stuff, and it's just so
out of the context for wrestling. It's not realistic, especially
there's no consequences. I was talked about this a lot
earlier there's no consequences, there's actions at all, right, nothing,

(02:00:27):
you know, It's just it's going realistic. It's just it's
done a good taste, you know, because they don't really
want to see that while on the wrestling show. I
think most people want to sit down and watch wrestling.
They want to see two guys I do have a fight.
They want to see an issue play out. They want
to know about the characters. They're gonna know who who
these guys are in the having the issue and throwing
it in the ring. They don't want to see there
and see just somebody just hacking up somebody. It's just

(02:00:50):
it's just not it's not compelling. It's not oh look
what TNA did, Look what they can do. They've done
it so many times. It just feels like trash and
go just schwalk and nobody wants to watch that. So
it's just it's teenage trying to be risky for the
sick of being risque and Triumph present this live action

(02:01:10):
horror at times of horror flick involving a bit. So
I just I just think it's just a distraction from
what from what he should be focusing on.

Speaker 14 (02:01:19):
It's taking that drawma too far if you you're not
keep saying, you know, it's like you make overence all
the time going the yield, which you really love.

Speaker 10 (02:01:26):
And that it was a good show as well. You
can I guess this.

Speaker 14 (02:01:30):
You think you could bob a five mile between acknowledging
the game. Everyone now now that wrestling is not as
fake as far as the hay consider and all that
stuff does. But you can still make the ground scene realistic.
I mean, you can always do the same lines.

Speaker 15 (02:01:43):
You know.

Speaker 14 (02:01:44):
It's like I watched the ryder Seva Dudd You know,
people can relate to you know, when Rix player explaimed
that Elizabeth was his before sager that came there. People
can relate to the lines of like the the guys
grow being stolen away from the bad guys. People can
relate to the best frant turning their back on each other.
It just can like they're trying to overdramaticize everything. It's
that the sting with a simple formula.

Speaker 2 (02:02:03):
That works exactly, and that's that's the problem with the booking.
The philosophy Vince Rouzzo's fray of approach, which is that
he wants to write a Hollywood TV show You you
wants to write a TV show that's accepted by Hollywood,
and and and people look at it like, oh, that's
so compelling and cutting edge, and reaction is reaction is

(02:02:23):
pretty cutting edge. But the product sucks. It does nothing.
It doesn't mean anything. Nobody's being advanced by this production.
It's just you know, you could put cats and dogs
dancing around and it would have the exact same value
as what he needs for gin reaction because it does
a mean anything. Nobody's talking about anything the means anything.
They're just talking in circles about nothing. And then you

(02:02:45):
have a bit splashing up to somebody. There's no consequences.
It means nothing. It's like Desmond Wolf when he ran
over Abyss and there were no consequences to that angle.
I mean, nobody even talks about it or remembers it
five months ago because there are no consequences. It doesn't anything.
So yeah, either any other question will follow, uh one

(02:03:07):
of them.

Speaker 14 (02:03:07):
I think guy today, I wants give a quick thanks
for finally putting the app.

Speaker 2 (02:03:11):
For a droid.

Speaker 14 (02:03:12):
I had a George barn so I appreciate it I
finally putting that out there. Other than that, many of
this thanks to making a call on how do dow weekend?

Speaker 2 (02:03:18):
Then all right you too, Steven thanks for the call.
Quick Bloods for pbtorch dot com. You know, like I
said at the top of the show, we have the
TEENA impact radiance. We had that first before anybody else
a couple of hours ago.

Speaker 5 (02:03:30):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (02:03:31):
The viewership number as well as the reaction numbers that
is on pbtorch dot com. Like Stevens said, we are
on iTunes in the in the iPhone store. I'm sorry,
We're on the iPhone iTunes store with the pdb torch app.
We will be having an updates soon. I can't give
it a date or a timeline on the app and
we're gonna have an update on that, so I recommend

(02:03:51):
downloading uh the app if you have an iPhone as
well as we're on Droid as of last month. So
that's a cool new feature that we have a new
way that are different and new ways access pdbtorch dot
com content. Also towards VPP membership VIP audio. This weekend,
we'll have a ton of audio this weekend with the

(02:04:12):
Rus Mitchell Audio Show with wad Keller currently being recorded
right now as I am talking and also the post
Night a Champions pay per View audio roundtable on Sunday night.
You can get instant access to that. Find out how
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slash go VIP to always entertaining, oftentimes more entertaining than

(02:04:33):
the pay per view itself roundtable discussion hosted by Wad
Keller that will be on Sunday night about an hour
hour and a half after the.

Speaker 24 (02:04:40):
Pay per view in So, are you a fan of
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(02:05:01):
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Speaker 2 (02:05:36):
Let's go in and grab two more phone calls in
the last five minutes of the show. Let's go over
to the seven oh three area code. Seven oh three.
Welcome to the show. Please take you fame where you're from?

Speaker 4 (02:05:47):
Oh?

Speaker 12 (02:05:47):
Hey, James Hilarry from Atlanta.

Speaker 2 (02:05:49):
Hey, Larry, good have you all? Let's go out today
another match.

Speaker 12 (02:05:54):
Just sort of wondering And this might be a question
that I ask them.

Speaker 2 (02:05:58):
Way later, but.

Speaker 12 (02:06:00):
I was wondering with with Triple A sort of being
out of the picture, which which I think has been great.
And I don't mean that as a flight against Triple Ah.

Speaker 2 (02:06:07):
I just think it's it's really.

Speaker 12 (02:06:09):
Freshened up raw. But do you think Triple A just
hit the point in his career where he's taking like
a lot of time off as a very tenured member
of the roster a lah, you know Shawn Michaels at
the time and the undertaker, Or is it just that
he got injured he's doing the movies, but really when
he can be, he's gonna be in a very very

(02:06:30):
very full time role.

Speaker 2 (02:06:31):
For the foreseeable future. Very good question. I imagine he
was banged up, then he's gonna do the movie, so
you know, I think he kind of decided, let's just
go in and do it all. At the same time,
I'll say the time off, I'll do the movie. And
I'm sure he enjoyed the rest. I mean, he's been
running hard off and off with a lot of different

(02:06:51):
injuries in time off for you know, about fifteen years
now in WW, so I'm sure he enjoyed the time off.
He looked at what Sean Michaels did on Michael's had
that time off after Russelomania last year, and then he
came back and had that one final run. I imagine
that he's kind of gearing up for. I don't know
what's a final run, because he might really hit his

(02:07:13):
stride and he come back strong, but I imagine it's
coming back for a pretty strong six month run and
we'll see from there whether that's a final run before
he kind of takes that executive position or if he
stays on TV for a longer period of time. But
you know, I think it's kind of saying, well, I'll
take the time off, I've enjoyed the time off, let
me get ready for a big run, and trying to

(02:07:35):
help boost especially raw Ronnie's the boost right now is
gonna be just dropped the ball with next is unfortunately,
so uh, let me good question. I'm gonna start to
squeze and one more phone calls. I appreciate your call today.
Let's go to the nine to one five three tode
nine one five. Welcome to the show. Please take you
name where you're from? Hey's breaking off, Patalment.

Speaker 23 (02:07:57):
Hey, great, I know, I just I was just listening
to the podcast of yesterday, and that was an excellent.

Speaker 18 (02:08:02):
Advance you had about the time off, which was right
out to Jeff Park. He was talking about Matt hardy Man.
That was such a move it Dan, it was great.

Speaker 2 (02:08:10):
Yeah, that was yeah. Wade Wade Keller had that discussion
yesterday's live cast with Greg Parks. I definitely recommend listening
to Wade and had a very good, uh, a lot
of very good points to make as part of our
one of our passions on the tour to is covering
the rest of our health issues. So I definitely recommend
listening yesterday.

Speaker 3 (02:08:25):
Real quick, did you have a quick question, Yeah, like
doing time off?

Speaker 18 (02:08:30):
Do you think they would hurt the product? Let's say
if they took off off the air.

Speaker 2 (02:08:34):
I'll take that in the in the VPP after the
show coming up next.

Speaker 5 (02:08:42):
All right, I wanna bring it back on the air.

Speaker 2 (02:08:53):
There, I had to cut you off to the end
the uh, the end of the show. But go ahead.
What was your your question about the time off?

Speaker 7 (02:09:00):
All right?

Speaker 18 (02:09:00):
That's saying if you didn't you know how the season
just ended. That saying if you took Law off the
air for about three or four.

Speaker 23 (02:09:05):
Weeks and then put in Next Tea on night.

Speaker 7 (02:09:08):
And kind of treat it.

Speaker 18 (02:09:09):
Like the Ultimate Fighters and then have better coaches, you
know what I mean? They couldn't that be even though
you'll have Sena and Ordon as a coach maybe and
they're on TV, but they're not resting wrestling, so really
their bodies can heal for three or four weeks.

Speaker 2 (02:09:25):
That's a very Yeah, it's a very interesting proposition. I
think that it's kind of why I think Delby does
not take sort of seasonal breaks is I think they're
afraid of losing their audience. Let's say that they're doing
a three point zero Let's just say they're doing three
point five un raw uh, and lets say they have
at the end of the season and they go off TV.

(02:09:47):
Let's say the Ruanda WrestleMania, and the WrestleMania is usually
kind of that's a that's a dead role period most
of the time, Rattermania. So let's say there they take off,
would say from April until uh, you know, maybe July fourth,
but let's say April April, did in March being in April,

(02:10:09):
they take off until you know, lester July fourth, and
they had and I think that they would be afraid
that if they came back on right at the beginning
of July I got of high summer standing and then
I get back in the summer slam mode, that they
would be down like a two point five, and that
their audience would forget their audience would uh kind of
get out of the habit of watching Raw every single

(02:10:31):
Monday night or from you know eleven from I'm sorry,
from nine to eleven PM Eastern every single Monday night.
It's fifty two weeks out of the year. I think
that is their greatest fear, is that they would lose
that audience if they had no programming or like you said,
I liked the idea of maybe having an NXTCS and
and having those coaches be the be the top stars.

(02:10:54):
You keep them on TV. They're still visible in the audience,
but they're not involved. And programs that are going to
water down the overall product. And you're you're establishing some
new stars. They're gonna be seen by a wider audience.
You're probably gonna drawing a two point zero. You might
even slip down below with two point Oh is that
a bad thing though, I don't think so. It's still
above anything that he has ever done, so that audiences

(02:11:17):
is still gonna see these tops, these top stars interacting
with new rookies. So I like that idea, and that's
pretty much cap go ahead.

Speaker 18 (02:11:26):
And I'm sorry I didn't know. Yeah, but it's not
like the Money Knights.

Speaker 3 (02:11:29):
They'll be blake.

Speaker 5 (02:11:30):
You would show in there and let's say.

Speaker 2 (02:11:32):
Mix it in with some behind the scenes stuff.

Speaker 18 (02:11:34):
Let's go to Boston with seeing them, Let's go to
Mark Carolina with the hardy you.

Speaker 23 (02:11:38):
Know what I mean, mix it that something like something
like that.

Speaker 18 (02:11:41):
You know people nowadays in the reality.

Speaker 2 (02:11:47):
You're exactly right. And I remember w dot com they
almost started something like that. I think last year they
were showing John Cena going around promoting Oh gosh, I
don't remember what he was promoting. It might have been
a movie. It might have been a movie, might have
been a project. So this might have been a wight.
It was either a light or nine. He was going

(02:12:07):
around doing various media and they had a camera follow him.
He was going to a premiere of the movie.

Speaker 6 (02:12:13):
That's what it was.

Speaker 2 (02:12:14):
There was somebody else's movie. It was a premiere that
he was guesting at. And then followed him around and
they showed him arriving in New York. They showed him
going to get his wardrobe, They showed him doing media,
They showed him arriving at the deal. You know, even
if you don't like seeing it, you can appreciate the concept,
which is showing the guys out of the ring, showing

(02:12:35):
it's almost gone. The confidential thing they used to do
on on weekends, so that those confidential features, and updating
it for w w dot you know w dot com.
They updated it there. You can bring it to TV
and like you said, have an hour. You can't even
do an hour of NXT and an hour of of

(02:12:56):
uh you know, like you said, like reality type features
kind of showing what the wrestlers are doing. You can
even show them training for the next season of of Raw.
It kind of stuff, sort of a mini championship fates
almost too, uh, shamans ins ins WrestleMania season as a champion.
They're gonna show John Cena working harder, uh, doing more lifts,

(02:13:18):
doing more of this than that training. He's ready for
a new season of Raw. He's ready to go chase
that title again. I think there's a lot of different
things you could do with that, And I really think
you have a really good idea there, which is have
that have a three months break and show NXT establish
the new stars, have those those top stars already on
the show as coaches or as pros, mentors rookies, and

(02:13:40):
then have those those one hour have an hour of
sort of a reaction type show documenting the top stars
and their in their personal lives and make them more
relatable to the audience. And yeah, really on this something there.

Speaker 23 (02:13:59):
Singing like at the entry and show her Jim the
stage of that nature.

Speaker 18 (02:14:04):
And I know about the Code Brady stuff might be
a problem, but if you you know, Dad would only
make people want to see Or if you had one
of the wrestlers.

Speaker 23 (02:14:12):
That say go to college, show him you know, going
across a graduating an off seasons, you know, stuff like that.

Speaker 2 (02:14:17):
You know you're right on, yeah, I mean, there's so
many fascinating stories.

Speaker 9 (02:14:22):
You could do.

Speaker 2 (02:14:22):
You could even you could even do sort of a
storyline driven thing where you so you show Sam Punk
going to like AA meetings and like the ratings people there,
you know what I mean, it's just right right. It
doesn't even have to be uh you know legit. You
know John Cen that what he's doing with his family
at home or big show at home. You can you

(02:14:42):
can have damn Plunk going to AA meetings and just
cutting promos on people and just to get you'll he
on him and you know you can stay within that
and you can kind of work the line between reality
and fiction and get over the characters. You know, they're
gonna be fascinating TV. Uh this show that just can
heat on him. So there's a lot. I mean, yeah,

(02:15:04):
you're so on a great point there. There's so many
different things they could be doing where I'm especially right
after WrestleMania where they always hit that low period and
it's such it's such a drag. Most to Tom, they
either bring back Vincent Man or Stephan McMahon or Shane
McMahon and have another power struggle storyline we've all seen before.

(02:15:24):
There'll be a chance with the writers to take three
months off and reevaluate what do we want to do
with our TV time, what's our big program, what's our
big storyline for the year, for the next nine months,
going to WrestleMania. You can do so many different things
to help refresh that product where you don't feel like
you're you know, you're on the end of your You're
at the end of your rope every single week because

(02:15:45):
you're just you're just burnt out as a talent, as
a writer, as management. You can allow yourself to go
watch some other TV shows. You can go watch DVDs,
you can watch shows that are on TV, you know,
first run shows during that break period, and you can
get ideas for the next season of Ron SmackDown and
depending whatever the future of NXT is. But if you

(02:16:06):
just put an XT in that raw slot for three months,
you can get a lot of ideas for that for
the next year. So yeah, great call, I mean great,
great idea. I really agree with that definitely.

Speaker 18 (02:16:16):
Hey, well thank you for taking my call, man. Like
I said, that was a hard film man, and that
was great, man. And I really, I really, you know,
I mean, I'm a big rest of the fan.

Speaker 1 (02:16:24):
I don't want to see.

Speaker 2 (02:16:25):
These guys get hurt.

Speaker 18 (02:16:26):
I mean, that's that's the thing. They breaks my heart
because I.

Speaker 2 (02:16:28):
Know it's hard. Yeah, there's gonna be changes. I mean,
it's just it's evident that there's there's so many broken
bodies and too many dead restors to that evidence is
mounting that there's got to be a change in the system,
the root issues of the system. Uh. And you have
a good idea for for a way to go about

(02:16:49):
giving that mandatory office off time and creating it in
a nine week season where everybody gets that time off,
everybody sees one to the end of the tunnel, and
I think helping the long term, especially the storytelling. You
come back strong for the next season of Wrong. But yeah,
great call, Rod, appreciate that. Yeah, Hey, thank you man.
I look forward to hearing you money. All right, Thanks,

(02:17:10):
thanks for calling in, Thanks everyone for listening. Today. Today
is Peter Bitorch livecast. We'll be back on Monday at
eight o'clock Eastern with the immediate fallout from the dynas
Champion's pay per view, as well as the first height
for the Hell of the Snow Paper view on wrong
on Monday, so everyone, thanks Gud for that on Monday.
Thanks again for listening today. This is Cork Assistant editor

(02:17:33):
James Caudlock sign it off.

Speaker 1 (02:17:52):
Invite you to email the show with feedback or questions
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Speaker 21 (02:18:15):
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