15 YRS AGO LIVECASTS: Keller & McNeill on Miz's rise, WM27, what's next for Nexus, Mick Foley, Goldust, Bloopers, Bad Outfits

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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(01:06):
PW Torch and Spreaker bring you the Wade Keller Pro
Wrestling Podcast on today's Way Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast. For
jumping back fifteen years over fifteen years to a PABILITY
Torch Live cast that I hosted with Pat McNeil on
August twenty fifth, twenty ten. On this episode, approaching almost

(01:29):
an hour and a half, we took live calls for
the first hour, talked about what was next for NXT,
mcfoley's fall as a promo guy after being top shelf
for so long, Wrestlmingia twenty seven, Perspective, main Events, Missus
Path to Main Events, SmackDown's roster on sci Fi, and more.
And then in the previously VIP exclusive after show, we
talked about MMA's promoting tactics, We answered email questions on

(01:52):
gold Dust, wwbe's directing, and more. So let's get to
it again. This originally livestream do on August twenty fifth,
twenty ten, fifteen years ago. Here we go, loop host.

Speaker 2 (02:06):
Welcome to PW Torch Live Cast. I'm Wade Keller, editor
and publisher of Pro Wrestling Torch Weekly newsletter and PTW
torch dot Com. Joining me today on Wednesday, August twenty fifth,
twenty ten is the esteemed Pat McNeil, PW Torch columnist.
How you doing, Pat, I'm fine?

Speaker 3 (02:27):
Hello? Are you people?

Speaker 4 (02:28):
Fatway?

Speaker 3 (02:28):
In case you hadn't noticed, I'm only estemed on the
weeks they're sending the column I just I just thought
that was worth mentioning. Okay, well, or the chatrooms open.

Speaker 2 (02:37):
The chatroom is open. Join us in the chatroom for
a discussion as this show takes place. If you're listening
to us live on blog talk Radio, we got a
dozen users in there and counting. We are here Monday
through Friday every day with a one hour live show
Tuesday through Friday. It's on from five thirty to six
thirty pm at blog talk radio dot com Slash Pro

(02:58):
Dash Wrestling Torch, and we're also here on Monday nights
the hour leading up to Ross. So those of you
who can't call us live or listen from five thirty
to six thirt Eastern, we welcome you to join us
on Mondays. And we're taking your phone calls too. We're
going to try to get to a lot of calls today.
So the phone number to get in line on the
phone banks, we got three people on hold. You can
be number four. The number is six four to six, seven,

(03:22):
two one nine, eight to eight. Pat, you mentioned it already.
You wrote your column in this week's Progressing Torch newsletter
packed with columns this week by the way, that's good stuff.
And you wrote about McK foley and his blog where
mcfoley was upset with mister Dave Melt the Wrestling Observer.
His feelings were hurt that Dave seemed somewhat dismissive of

(03:44):
what mcfoley thought were some praiseworthy promos that he had given,
and also Tommy Dreamer's tearful promo. You did a full page.
You were very kind to kind of summarize where mcfuley was,
what mcfoley had to say, and I don't know, maybe
added a worder here and there.

Speaker 3 (04:02):
Some people just just can't make it through a forty
four hundred hundred word blog. I mean that is that
is in fact, Uh, that's that's pretty much longer than
I think any Torch column I've done in a while,
so or any or any Torch column in a while
for that mass.

Speaker 2 (04:18):
Yeah, it's like three three Torch newsletter pages. And that's
that's a lot.

Speaker 3 (04:22):
Yeah, that's plenty.

Speaker 5 (04:24):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (04:24):
You spoof Foley and his self centeredness and his uh,
you know, he's very absorbed in himself and his ego
I think has consumed his soul. As I put in
the VIP Forum discussion what where do you where do
you lie with Mick Foley in terms of the quality
of work he's done or what's missing now? Even if
his promos in his own mind are as good as
they once were, what what's missing that that leads him

(04:46):
to not be the darling of the internet like he
was in the in the mid nineties or the early nineties,
really through the early two thousands.

Speaker 3 (04:53):
I think what it boils down to is that, you know,
you know, Mick Foley is not particularly beloved by wrestling fans.
Cactus Jack is mankind is, but you know, not so much.
Mcfoley not doing bad and I yeah, and I think
that you know, every time mcfoley goes into the into
the og aw, shucks, isn't this fun mode? You know,

(05:16):
it starts doing ridiculous promos like like talking about you know,
like him and Jeremy Borash doing you know, doing buddy
cop scenes. I think it just sort of takes something
away from you know, what's what should be an entertaining
for a wrestling cop product, which has to do is
for a wrestling.

Speaker 2 (05:31):
Yeah, I think mcfoley people are starting to sense more
and more why they don't enjoy his work as much
as they did before. And I think one of the
keys is he just there's no no threat behind what
he says anymore. And what was interesting about his character
in the nineties is that he had this unique interview
style that that seemed likable, ironic, smart, There was a

(05:53):
sense of humor, but it had that dark side. It's
something that I think worked with the Public Enemy tag
team in the first ECW incarnation too. They were funny,
but they had some street cred. And when Mick Foley
became a muppet, when McK foley got terribly out of shape,
when mc foley's body broke down after the years of
excessive bumps that he took, and I say excessive meaning

(06:15):
he took more than he had to to accomplish the
exact same thing in a positive sense. You know, he
could have accomplished all the same positive things he did
with a lot fewer bumps and way fewer headshots chair
shots to the head. When that threat, when that edginess
was gone, the sense of humor wasn't as endearing because
it didn't seem as ironic, and I think that that's

(06:36):
one of the downsides. Plus I just don't think he's
giving the promos that he thinks he's giving that are
as good as they once were, because in some ways,
while the content in his mind is the same, we're
in a different era and some of the same jokes,
some of the same references, some of the same fly
insider comments. Well, Vince Russo, among others, has kind of
ruined that gimmick, you know, like he even in his

(06:58):
essay pat he said, oh, there one time I made
a reference to the words and it got really over,
you know, with everybody, and now if I make some
inside of references, I'm scolded on it. Well, yeah, Mick,
because in case you hadn't noticed in the last twelve
thirteen years, that gimmick is no longer original or ironic
or surprising. We're in a different world and I just
don't think his promos have advanced with the times. And

(07:18):
I think that's one of the things that makes his
promos not click.

Speaker 3 (07:21):
Well, yeah, I mean, you know, part of it is,
you know, the business has passed him by, which which
you can say about almost anybody over forty who was
working in TNA because for obvious reasons. I mean, but
it's very much what you said he can't go out
there and wrestle anymore. He's about to release a book
about a match he had with sing last year that

(07:42):
wasn't very good. And I'm being charitable when I when
I say that, and which I'll do, you know, on
the other and very few people saw or cared about.
I mean, you know, it really hurts somebody's credibility when
they're appearing on a pro wrestling show and they're talking tough,
when when it's obvious they're no longer able to back
it up. Whether you're talking about you know, Ted Dbosi

(08:03):
as manager of the Million Dollar Corporation, or whether you're
talking about general manager Stone Cold Steve Austin, or or
whether you're talking about Nick Foley in twenty oh nine,
twenty ten.

Speaker 2 (08:13):
Yep, very very true. Our number here is six four
six seven nine two eight quick plug. In case you
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Speaker 1 (09:40):
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Speaker 2 (10:10):
Let's go to the phone lines and go to area
code eight six five. Thanks for being the first collar.
Please state your name and where you're from. Stephen.

Speaker 6 (10:18):
Hey, it's come on, guy, Stephen.

Speaker 2 (10:20):
How did I know that? All? Right? Go ahead, hiks, stive.

Speaker 5 (10:23):
Them anyways, By the last one, I said, thanks for
putting that that issue up. For that, I said question
I asked yesterday and Dad mc can I answered my question.

Speaker 2 (10:31):
I appreciate that. Cool. Yeah, yeah, sorry, sorry, I think
both jays and I were little distracted when you first
read the question, and then afterwards we the specific of
you're talking about Nick Patrick, right, yes, yeah, and the
specific of whether Nick Patrick was it was intentionally intentioned,
because the idea was that it was supposed to be
a fast count and it wasn't and it screwed up
the whole angle. But the the suspicion, the conspiracy theory

(10:55):
was they that somebody behind the scenes putting Nick Patrick
up to it to try to get him to screw
up the angle. Pat, do you want to do a
little follow up on that, because that was such a
weird the attempt to capitalize on the Survivors series angle
or you know, the screw job, whatever you want to
call it, more than an angle with Bret Hart really failed.
And it was just a few days later that ww
thunder debuted, and I almost think that was kind of

(11:17):
the moment WW and I know those terms overused, but
there's not a better term. I think that's when maybe
the official moment when w W jumped the shark, when
when they started going in the direction of spoofing, you know,
that WW angle and try to be two insider.

Speaker 3 (11:32):
Well, yeah, that's that's the possibility. The way I remembered,
it was explained to me that, yeah, Nick Nickpatrick was
encouraged by the story. The room all was was Nick
Patrick was encouraged by Hogan to not do a really
fast count and because they were setting up something for
for the next line, which they did.

Speaker 2 (11:50):
They did.

Speaker 3 (11:50):
They basically had the rematch on the Nitro the following night,
and I'm trying to remember how that ended. I think
it's I'm gonna have to go back and look it up,
but I think their rematch ended with them going off
for the air while the match was still going on.

Speaker 2 (12:03):
Which, yeah, which was a way to hype Thunder, I believe, Yes,
that's just doing on Thursday. Uh huh yeah, yeah, great memories,
huh yeah. I mean, honestly, there were some good There's
a lot w W. It was on the brink of
of you know, driving the whole sting thing into the ground,
and you know, he needed to. They really dragged that

(12:24):
out a long time. But this was a moment when
they could have shifted into a new gear and and
and and started something new that would say we got more,
We've got we've been you know, last couple of years.
If you think we've been kind of going downhill a
little bit, resting on our laurels, rerunning some of the
same angles. We're not a one note promotion. We are
We've got something new in mind, and everything just derailed
at that point. But anyway, Stephen, you probably called about
something else.

Speaker 5 (12:46):
Actually, well, yeah, my question m WAA question was that time.
My question is with the Tyler Bride going into to
the Lean now and then several other Bria Varnes stars
being in there, you stack vari Naielsen and how like
and how Daryan Dyan having a lot of good magage
in our Ring of Honor? Do you think Will will
want to catalyze on that and maybe had some of

(13:08):
the gas Ring of Honor have.

Speaker 4 (13:10):
Like r O H.

Speaker 5 (13:11):
South have the matches and you have to kind of
help boost, uh boost the card.

Speaker 7 (13:16):
A little bit.

Speaker 2 (13:17):
Had What do you think about that anything?

Speaker 3 (13:20):
Well, since this isn't being being written by TNA, I
I don't really expect them to do a Ring of
Honor faction. If they do a Ring of Honor faction,
I don't expect it to be named anything. It would
obviously have a different name. I think if they do
something like that, it will be it will be years
down the road because they don't you know, they want
to see what uh what Tyler Black can do, and

(13:43):
what what Cabal can do, and and a couple of
the other uh former Ring of Honor guys would do.
So if I you know, right now Vince mcman is
still in charge, and uh, you know, the idea of
a bunch of the smaller wrestlers teaming up, well, but
you know that that doesn't work because them the smaller wrestlers,
or it's a smaller wrestler all together, they won't have
anybody to wrestle.

Speaker 2 (14:02):
And frankly, I think you know you've got the NXT
faction and you've got the EV two faction. I think
you pretty much have to go about eighteen more months
before you do anything with a big faction again, or
it just looks like you're you're driving an ID into
the ground. I mean, there's there's still for that matter
of the Nexus faction. Did I say NXT, I said

(14:22):
Nexus n EV two. Well, anyway, in the fact that
the next AS faction and the EV two faction are
both out there, I think you don't want to overdo
it with factions. You know, it's one of those things
that has rapidly diminishing returns. We saw that with the nWo,
we saw it in WWE with the DA and a
number of other factions. It's just when you go faction crazy,
it really breaks down the booking and basically waters it

(14:44):
down where I don't think any factions are effective in general, though,
I'm for T and A or WWE introducing on the
undercard great matches with smaller guys, and it doesn't have
to be super long matches like a ring, like a
Great Ring of Honor marathon main event, but but to
treat them with a level of respect and to give
them their space to do their thing I think is
valuable and it doesn't have to I mean, I'm for

(15:07):
main eventing with the guys in a completely restructured philosophical
booking approach, but in a more realistic sense. I think
Ultimate Dragan and Eddie Grow and Dean Malenko and Ray
Mysterio went on and on did incredible things for Nitro.
I think if you did market research and went back
and interviewed or today interviewed people and asked them what
was it about WW in the mid to late nineties

(15:28):
that got you into wrestling. What was it about Nitro?
I think one of the top five things the majority
of them would say is they had never seen in
ring wrestling like that before. And I think unfortunately the
leaders of our of the top two companies don't really
value great in ring wrestling, especially if it comes from
smaller guys who don't have established gimmicks or a huge
history on national TV or give great, great promos. Some

(15:50):
of them can, they just haven't been given a chance.
But again, I'd rather main event with them, but I'll
take them on my undercard giving me great matches, and
I think that's one of the reasons Nitro succeeded like it,
and it's one of the underrated reasons Steven, any follow
up or did we address your question adequately or do
you want to do it add anything to it?

Speaker 5 (16:09):
Well, well, I just want to say I agree, that's
kind of how hard. I did like to see them
use the d of the undercar guys and helps helps
at least set up a strong and on your head
and matches mod somewhat decent tonight. My other quick question
isn't an after word that you have to put me
on hold. I appreciate it is why would you two
to go to you know, Brandon's Tag Belts. They kind
of give the assumption that hey, we may start fred

(16:30):
than tag team division again, and then the next week
that tag camps.

Speaker 2 (16:33):
Are not even years Because Vincent Mann does has in
wwe have so much going on, and the tag team
titles just are if something else comes up, if something
else gets them excited, or if they have to take
two weeks of TV at once and they have concept
shows like they did the last couple of weeks that
fill the time, they don't. It just isn't on their
radar enough where they think it's a big deal to

(16:55):
put off featuring the tag teams for a few weeks.
It's just in Vincent Mann's mind. He's got a list
of priorities and it's not on the top ten. And
so I think that's one of the reasons it frustrates
fans to take team wrestling, and I'm one of them,
is one week it seems to have they've got some
space or an excuse or a reason to put them
on TV, and they may not think about it again
for three four five weeks.

Speaker 3 (17:13):
Pat and Well and the other reason, you know, I mean,
I I hate to bring this up. But I think
the reason I made new Belt is so they can
sell them on shop Zone, not so they could revitalize
the tag division.

Speaker 2 (17:24):
Yeah, you're well, sadly, you're probably that's probably a factor.
All right, let's go back to the phone lines. If
you want to get in line. We still just got
three people on hold, so you can. We can get
to your call relatively quickly. The number is six four, six,
seven to one, nine, eight to eight. Let's go to
aera code four to seven eight. Please state your name
and where you're from.

Speaker 3 (17:44):
Chris and Georgie.

Speaker 2 (17:45):
Hey, Chris, hear for me's up today?

Speaker 8 (17:49):
The sea thing is is I'm looking forward to the
whole Miss thing, like you know, the man just has it.
But the thing is, I'm wondering, uh as my first question,
like with Liz and Brian Danilson both together antiphonally, like
where do you see them going? Because like I read
one place that they said like miss is going They're
going all the way with them, and I think they should.

Speaker 2 (18:10):
So what do you guys think? Pat go ahead and
lead with that.

Speaker 3 (18:15):
I think the then we've talked about this before, I
expect him to be feuding with Brian Danielson for a
little while. I would like, uh, yeah, my guess is
that that they're gonna do. You know that the reason
they're they're not mentioning this whole thing with MS having
the money in the bank is when they when they
actually have him bring them out in four to six
weeks or something like that, everybody will be sort of

(18:37):
surprised by it and not expecting it. And and I guess,
you know, my guess as to what they'll do is,
you know, MS tries to cash and the money in
the bank briefcase, he goes to Penn Seamus or whoever,
and Daniel Brian comes in and knocks Miss out and
and yeah, and MS has to give up the briefcase.
And then a couple of months later MS comes back
and and wins the win the championships some other way.

(19:00):
I would expect this. I would expect the whole Brian,
Daniel Brian and MS a storyline to play out over
over the next few months, not over the next few weeks.

Speaker 2 (19:10):
Yeah, And I don't think it's any kind of emotion
for Miss to be sidelined with Daniels. I think Daniel Brian,
I think WWE is high on Miss and if he
ends up in a feud with Brian Daniel and even
if he loses or you know, goes back and forth
with Brian Daniel as a vote of confidence for Daniel
lout of vote against Miz. You don't give I mean,
you don't give Miss as long of a match as

(19:31):
he got on Monday Night against John Cena and have
the run in finish that they had, unless you're thinking
Mis is a guy who we want fans to perceive
as being unseen as level. There's a slow there's generally
a slow build with most talent, especially talent that's been
around a long time. Seamus kind of you know, stormed
onto the scene and got to make a push pretty early.
Wad Bear to a certain extent, has although it's not

(19:53):
like they threw him into one on one pay per
view main event world title matches already. But with Miss,
he's been around long enough. And at the time, you know,
was the reality guy, was that dreaded co host DJ
whatever thing of SmackDown that was ridiculous. Whoever's idea that
was it should go down an infamy. But but and
then tag teams with John Morrison, and and and and

(20:14):
so I just think with Mis they've got, they've got
to build up his credibility slowly so that most most
raw viewers, most WWE fans see that he earned his
way to the top. And I think it's good that
the people who are the most in favor of Miss,
his biggest fans, feel like WWE is going slightly slow
on pushing him to the top, because I think that
means that he's probably in step with building credibility with

(20:36):
the vast majority of fans who are who not not
that they're skeptical, amis, but they want to see him
earn his way to the top. Uh. So I think
when the time comes and they want to rotate him
into the top top spots, they will. But this Daniel
Bran Daniel feud is just perfect for Miss. I think
it's it's perfect for Daniels. So I'm looking forward to
it and I think it'll it'll give Miss a chance
also that have some good matches.

Speaker 9 (20:57):
Need an extra dose of positivity in your wrestling podcasts.
Will come join me Alan forel Over in the Progress
Paradise at Pterbo Torch VIP as we mask on the
bright side of wrestling and focus on some of the
great matches and shows from around the world, be it
the US, Japan, Europe or Mexico. There's always a place

(21:18):
for wrestlings past in the Paradise too, and we've done
fun historical shows such as the We Love Liger series
celebrating the glorious career of Jusian Thunderliger and our eye
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(21:40):
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Speaker 2 (21:59):
See You in the Paradise, Yeah, Chris, any follow up,
any any reaction to that?

Speaker 8 (22:08):
Actually, I think you're spot on. The thing is that
they Actually he reminds me a lot of Shawn Michaels.
I remember watching the Heartbreaking Gimph DVD and his thing
was at a point when he started, like you know,
when he got some money in the bank, he felt
a little stagnant, but like Sean said, by himself, he said,
I need something else and then tada, the briecase comes
up and he has like a fresh outlook on him.

(22:30):
Although I really don't think they're going too slow. I
know they have to like build credibility on him, so
you know you have to take out, you know, time
to do everything you need to do with him, like
I read of them do that and like you know,
hot shot him.

Speaker 2 (22:42):
Yep, I'm with you on that, Chris, thanks for recall.
Oh well, appreciate it. Call again the number six four eight.
You're listening to the PW Towrs Love Cast with Wade
Keller and columnist Pat McNeil. Let's go back to the
phone lines and uh, well let's see here. Dog talk
is refreshing and there we go.

Speaker 6 (23:03):
Ok.

Speaker 2 (23:04):
Uh you c r A p you're on G E
M E thirteen. I've no idea what this says. You're
on the Game thirteen. Yes, yep, you're on the show. Pip.
It's your name and where you're from.

Speaker 4 (23:16):
Hey, it's Jeff and Burbank. How are you doing all right?

Speaker 5 (23:20):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (23:21):
I'm one of these old school fans who kind of
really became interested in the WWE again with this Nexus
angle because it was one of the freshest things that
happened in like six years in my mind. And right now,
I don't see how they salvage this because they used
NXT to build these guys with personalities and then they

(23:42):
stuck them all on wrong. Now they're you know, it's
six guys in shirts pretty much, and if they if
they connect him with like the general manager or something
like that, that guy then gets all the heat and
all these guys are are generic thugs and then they
get jobbed out to the point where you have to
build them up all over again from scratch. I was

(24:04):
just wondering if if either of you have any ideas
on how this angle can be saved.

Speaker 2 (24:09):
Pat, I think we've always kind of wondered, what, you know,
what chapter two would be like. You know, the the
execution at the beginning was effective, and I don't think
Jeff is alone and being brought being being intrigued by
what they were doing with it. They made it seem
special and and not every week of Raw it runs
an angle like that. So when they do something like that,
it stands out, it has impact. But we've always kind

(24:29):
of wondered about chapter two because there's always that that
looming issue that it is just a bunch of guys
wearing matching T shirtsh nobody who don't have a lot
of experience on the micro in the ring, who were
portrayed as rookies. What do you where do you think
they're going from here? Based on what we've seen in
the last few weeks, I.

Speaker 3 (24:44):
Think that we're going to have I think, based on
what happened on Draw we're going to have Wade Barrett
and five guys in black shirts with m's on them.
I mean that's yeah, that's This whole thing is going
to be based around around Baron Bear getting a getting
his getting in on the U on the main event
of there not a championship. And I don't know that

(25:06):
they really have any any plans right now for the
other flat numbers, and it's not that they're doing And
that's not.

Speaker 2 (25:14):
To say the other five don't have that there aren't
some possible breakout stars among the other five wrestlers, but
one other thing they can do. I mean, you always
have this with a faction if you book it patiently.
Is once you establish the faction and the dynamic between them.
When somebody does lead, it can be Darren Young being
kicked out. It can be a wrestler breaking away on
his own, or the Daniel Bryant situation, which is kind

(25:35):
of you know, trust upon them and kind of weird,
but you have the chance to to have it. Look
at the work with Evolution Batista and UH with Batista
and Randy Orton, and you can have wrestlers actually viewed
with the leaders, so somebody, if somebody can emerge inn NXT,
they can break them off and then you can also
add new members. You've got this whole second season of

(25:57):
NXT where some of them Deloyd nexcess and expand the group,
so there's different things they can do. But it's been
an issue with WW and I think last week's Ross
shows that having all of them win by fluke instead
of showing that some of them are actually really good
and can win on their own, I think is an
issue and that is going to be an issue going forward.
Any other thoughts, Jeff.

Speaker 4 (26:19):
Yeah, this is where a tag division would really come
in handy for those guys, And just once I wanted
to see Darren Young come out and beat Nexus Bizarro
Sina with the whole entrance and everything. I thought that
would have been an awesome idea just once. But thanks lot, guys.
Get to other calls, appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (26:35):
Thanks Jeff. We will do just that and go to
Erico three four seven. Thanks for calling. Please state your
name and where you're from. Oh three four seven? Are
you there? We can barely hear you. If you might
want to adjuster phone, we'll come back to you in
a minute. See if you can come through stronger in

(26:55):
a minute, or you can call back on a better line.
Eric Cod nine to one zero, you're on the life.
Definitely state your name and where you're from. Why y'all
doing good? What's going on? Hannibal?

Speaker 10 (27:06):
Hannibal?

Speaker 11 (27:08):
Okay, okay, yeah, Actually you know what y'all think about?
You know, as far as the spoilers, you know last night, man,
you know I don't seen the same old mess you
know as the Poulaman and gave them a little suggestion
you know, just last week. You'll still I follow the
same old mess.

Speaker 3 (27:25):
Yeah, I's after reading the spoilers, I definitely agree it's
the same old mess.

Speaker 11 (27:32):
Ah there't more mess.

Speaker 2 (27:33):
You know, you go ahead, go Aheadal do you do
you have a question for us today besides that comment?

Speaker 11 (27:40):
Okay, yeah, you know, trying to really get this right here,
why didn't never push on Ronney Garvet into the main event,
you know, back in the day because they felt like
you had that much careersma in the w W.

Speaker 3 (27:53):
Oh w W A well, I mean they did push
in the name event in the n W A yeah,
I mean they know he was They thought it was
too old and not flashy enough and his finisher was
a punch for trying that lab So yeah, I mean
that's definitely I'm sure it has a lot of reasons.
I'm sure that has a lot to do with it.

Speaker 2 (28:11):
And let's keep in mind too, Ron Garvin was a
former n WA World Champion. But people were not happy
about Ron Garvin getting the NWA championship who were longtime
fans of the NWA. I mean, I was a fan
of Ron Garvin, but not at a world title level.
I'm a fan of surprises on occasion to keep people
on their toes, to make people not think they can

(28:32):
always guess to finish ahead of time. And and but
Ron Garvin i mean, politically speaking.

Speaker 11 (28:39):
It was.

Speaker 2 (28:40):
It was a move that was made that I think
a lot of people's second guest. He and Flair had
some good matches, but you know, you have to watch
how often you put the belt around somebody that fans
don't see at a world title level. Ron Garvin in
WWE was exactly where I think he should have been
as a as a veteran, grizzled role player. And I
got to see him first him some chop fests with

(29:01):
Greg Valentine that were pretty good WWF House show matches
to watch in person. They were worth going out of
your way to see.

Speaker 3 (29:07):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (29:07):
But you know, he was a role player and and
so I don't know that he deserved a bigger push
than he got. Sometimes somebody like Ron Garvin is going
to get a bigger push because he's he was a
reliable enough guy who had some credibility with fans. If
if your roster is thin, and then you go with
him somebody like him, and he's the type of guy
who you know, I'm trying to think that there's and

(29:28):
then now and maybe as a fit Finley type. You know,
when SmackDown's roster was kind of thin, Finley would get
a big push, but you know, nobody's Nott Finley with
someone to build around or a rating straw. He again
was just kind of a role player. Thanks for the question, Annibal.
We appreciate your call and your question. As always, Let's
now go back to the phone lines. Eric Gode four
aight zero. Please state your name and where you're from?

Speaker 12 (29:49):
Hey or anyway to that is.

Speaker 2 (29:53):
Efn good here from you?

Speaker 3 (29:55):
Good too?

Speaker 12 (29:56):
Yes, Crystal Ball seven months now WrestleMania would you like
in your main event?

Speaker 2 (30:03):
Very good question. Uh, we're getting to that season, Pat,
and he's I mean, I assume Triple H being away
as long as he has kind of hinting that the
end may be near. I'll believe it when I see it,
But I mean, I don't doubt it, but I'm just
saying I believe it when I see it.

Speaker 10 (30:17):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (30:17):
Where where do you think we're headed for WrestleMania under
you know, Undertaker is obviously the big question mark. Are
they're going to drag the feud with Kane out long
enough to do that? Or might we see Undertaker Sina
as a big main event? And where does Triple H
fit in that mix? And Randy Orton for that.

Speaker 3 (30:32):
Oh please please. I do not want to see Undertaker
and Kane dragged out.

Speaker 2 (30:36):
For under I don't mind the angle, but I don't
want to see it WrestleMania.

Speaker 3 (30:42):
Yeah. I mean, we've already seen him twice at WrestleMania,
and you know, and twice is enough. I think, probably
even more than enough.

Speaker 2 (30:48):
If I we get is twice of Michael versus Undertaker,
I think then there should be no more than two
Kane Undertakers.

Speaker 3 (30:55):
Yeah. I mean my guests, you know, with with nothing
else to go on, my guest right now would be
the music against seen in the main event, and maybe
on the undercard, you'd have you know, Triple H fighting uh,
Triple H fighting Kane or Jackswagger or somebody like that
for the SmackDown title. That's assuming that Triple H is
wanting to go to SmackDown.

Speaker 2 (31:13):
But where's the Undertaker?

Speaker 3 (31:17):
I don't know. I hadn't I hadn't H haven't thought
that far ahead.

Speaker 2 (31:21):
I'm making it up that gun. Yeah. Well that's that's good,
and I will uh, I will say that I would
be real surprised if Miz gets elevated to me at WrestleMania.

Speaker 3 (31:31):
Well, how about how about Undertaker versus Shamus.

Speaker 2 (31:34):
Yeah, yeah, that could work. That'd be a good I
think that'd be a good match, and it would legitimately
it would give legitimacy to Seamus in a kind of
a passing of the torch type of way, because if
Seamus has the career that certainly WWE is positioning him
to have, they uh have. If they don't do a
Seamous Undertaker match, people look back at that and and

(31:54):
wish they had seen it, and and Wrestlmingia would be
the place to do it. I'm still kind of leaning
towards Seenea versus Undertaker, because that was talked about a
year ago at this time before Michael's pushed for match
number two and talked about the retirement where it made
total sense. So I'd still lean towards Sena versus Undertaker.
But I don't want to see Orton against Seamus, against

(32:16):
Triple H against Orton Agains, Seamus against her play. I
don't want to see those three against each other. I'd
like to see a fresh opponent and so you know,
fresh opponents for them and making those seam WrestleMania Worthy's
going to be a challenge and Swagger certainly is somebody
that I hope they get back into the top main
event mix, and don't in that his push at the
very top wasn't temporary, because I think he he's as

(32:37):
ready as Mis to be one of those top guys
who gets a good slot at Mania. Again, I'm not
quite sure miss will be ready for Sena this WrestleMania.
I think it might be premature. I think a year,
a year and a half from now it makes maybe
for me, the timing makes a little more sense.

Speaker 1 (32:53):
We're about to go to a commercial break. Why listen
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(33:16):
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Speaker 3 (33:26):
Okay, somebody in the chat room right down that I
picked CNNMS for the main event of Wrestlemanian. We'll get
back for this in about five or six.

Speaker 2 (33:33):
Months, yep. And I'm not saying they won't do it,
although I even doubt that. I'm not saying it's ruled out.
I'm just saying I think if they do it, it
might seem too soon, but we'll see what happens with
MIDS over the next few months.

Speaker 3 (33:44):
With Bran Daniel, I mean, Sena versus Undertaker, under the
right circumstances, could work, could work very well.

Speaker 2 (33:50):
Yeah, it feels it feels like an epic match that
should happen around this point, so we shall see anything else. Efron,
I just.

Speaker 12 (34:01):
Love the same aura that that happened this past year
where you thought Undertaker might lose. I don't think you
get that with Sena. I think you might stand up
with Shanas, you might get it with Miz, but I
don't really know who else. That's all I'm hoping for
when it comes to Undertaker's patch, because I think everyone
will believe that he beats it up.

Speaker 3 (34:18):
I agree, that's all I got and love the droid
app is gonna plug it.

Speaker 12 (34:22):
So thank you guys as always.

Speaker 2 (34:24):
Great Thanks eyran Uh. We've got just a reminder that
we've got our droid app up, as Efron just mentioned,
So if you want, if you have a droid phone
and want to visit PW Torch on your droid phone,
the all the free site contents are available on our
droid app. Just search PW Torch and also while you're
at it, search MMA Torch if you're an mm A
FEN or you see fen and get our our MMA

(34:45):
app with Jamie Pennock and staff covering the wide world
and expanding world of mixed martial arts full time. Yesterday
last night, the MMA Torch Live Cast featured some good interviews,
including your Rayah Faber calling in live for an interview
on the show last night. Definitely we're checking out if
you subscribe to the iTunes feed of the MMA Torch

(35:07):
Live cast that now also includes all of the MMA
Torch podcasts, including the weekly Audio Choke and the Writers
and Fighters Show. So we encourage you to search MMA
Torch on your on iTunes and subscribe to the MMA
Torch live casts and podcast speed and join Jamie, Matt
and Rich on Tuesday nights at nine o'clock Eastern eight

(35:28):
o'clock Central for a ninety minute live discussion of the
week in MMA and UFC. Back to the phone lines,
let's go to Eric code. Actually, let me try three
four seven one more time. See if we got a
better connection. Three four seven? Are you there this time?
All right? I guess we'll give up by yeah.

Speaker 3 (35:46):
And if I can say something really quickly, I know
there are a lot of people in the chat room.
For the new people in the chat room, please do
not taunt the senior columnist.

Speaker 2 (35:54):
Okay, Bruce's last I saw out of the corner my eye.
Bruce was arguing about maybe Lex Luger being a worthy
headliner at some point or something or other. But yeah,
there's there's something to be said for not arguing with
Bruce about anything from the past thirty years in wrestling
unless you're really gonna bring it, un sous, you're really
gonna bring it, I would say that all right. By

(36:16):
the way, Bruce Mitchell scheduled to co host a live
cast tomorrow, I believe and I think Brian Hoops this
might be news to him, but I think we're gonna
try to slap Brian hoops for Friday. We might flip
those around, but usually Bruce and I record the VIP
Bruce Mitchell Audio Show on Friday afternoons, which sometimes overlapts
a live cast of it. So we'll figure it out.
But Bruce and Brian will be the co host the

(36:37):
next couple of days in all likelihood. All right, back
to the phone line to aera code nine one seven.
You're on the show. Please state your name and where
you're from.

Speaker 10 (36:46):
Hey, guys, Shoe from Coins, how you doing to that
good good Joe, good different girl? Yeah, thanks for taking
my call. I want to ask you guys about seek
Harder's character right now, and I'm when I mean Characs,
I'm talking about her on her show right now. What
do you think there's daughter that I don't like?

Speaker 2 (37:04):
Sorry, go ahead.

Speaker 3 (37:06):
There's really no difference between her on the show and
her real lives from what I've heard.

Speaker 2 (37:10):
Yeah, okay, it's a total worth.

Speaker 10 (37:12):
I mean, yeah, whatever the hell she's doing on the show,
do you guys think she's doing a good job as
far as being a character, Because I'm thinking back to
like days when like Vince mcmann's first debut and he
was so over the top, and he was great for
the wrestling business, and he helped Steve Austin as far
as you know, getting helping him get a part of
him getting over. And then even to a certain extent,
you can go to like the Eric Fischoff, even when

(37:34):
he was like in w CW and even when he
went to WWE, when he was like the GM, he
really struck a chord as far as being a compelling character.
And I'm seeing Dixie on TV, whether it's you know,
shooting or not, whatever the hell she's doing, and there's
just something there that I don't I don't understand what
her character is supposed to be on TV, Like is
she trying to put people over, which should be her

(37:55):
ultimate goal, not putting herself more or less over? And
I just want to know what you guys I think
of her as far as her post on TV goes.

Speaker 2 (38:04):
I will start this one. Dixie Carter's character is on
television because the people who are making money as wrestlers
or executives in I almost a WW in TNA right
now have figured out that if they get Dixie Carter
invested as a character and she has fun as a
character on television, and she gets cheers from the fans.

(38:28):
It'll be intoxicating, and she will be distracted from the
incredible increase in their talent budget this year and the
complete lack of any increase in the ratings that should
have accompanied the acquisition of the talent that they've received.
And so her character is there, and not that she's
bad on television because she's This isn't John Ayres to

(38:49):
take an old late eighties reference from the UWF. I mean,
she's she's a decent on her character here, but she's
on there because everything on DNA Impact is directed not
towards the fans, not towards the viewers. It's directed towards
keeping Dixie Carter happy. So the money keeps flowing. And
the people who have jobs who aren't delivering ratings and

(39:09):
aren't delivering by rates, and aren't delivering good the good
shows that they that they should be delivering at this point,
who are woefully out of touch in many areas, they
want to stay on her good side, and so they've
introduced her on TV. Now that's a cynical view, and
I think there is a lot to that, But I
will add to this too. Part of it is the
wrestling promote. She's a she's an alternate, She's an alternate face.

(39:30):
And I'm sure this is a sales pitch that she's
been given. She gives an alternate, smiling, positive, glowing face
that's fan friendly. That's a counter to WWE with Vince
hook Mann and they're rotating gms and that type of thing.
There's you know, it gives Tna the identity that that
Dixie Carter provides, which is we're a pro we're a
pro fan connection and and and or we're a pro

(39:56):
fan promotion and and she makes people feel good about
supporting t and A. It's kind of a raw, rochet
leader type thing too that she provides. And now, of
course you know the idea is she she and Tommy
had this dynamic where you know, she she heard that
Tommy wanted to come in, and she helped deliver ECW
to the old ECW fans. So it's kind of a
combination of all those things. Pat go ahead and disagree
or add to that, or do whatever you want with

(40:17):
that question.

Speaker 3 (40:18):
I have a hunch that if you got hold of
her and asked her what her character was on on
on Tianna Impact, she literally would not understand the question.
I mean, you know, I mean she is yeah, I
mean she's she's out there because they're talking all the people.
You know what, the people really reacted to you last time,
and we need to get you on TV more and

(40:39):
and wait, wait, doll, we see what happens on Impact
tomorrow night.

Speaker 2 (40:42):
By the way, yes, yes, well we'll Twylter void. We
will try to avoid the spoilers. Joe, does that answer
a question adequately? Do you want any follow up?

Speaker 4 (40:50):
Uh?

Speaker 10 (40:51):
That's perfect. I mean that's a good opinion. Real quick,
ifect just ask two questions, I to hang off the
really quick. I've been noticing that ESPN, like ESPN dot com,
has been doing a lot of wrestling stuff like today,
I don't know if you guys saw what they actually
did an interview with rig Flair like, which was a
video for some some sports center anchor I forgot his name,

(41:14):
but they've been doing that, and I know last week
the sports guy person was on with whatever his name is, Simmons.
He did that thing with Shawn Michaels. It was like
a fifty minute interview. And I'm just wanting to know,
have you guys heard anything like why is ESPN dot
Com all of a sudden becoming like a pro wrestling
website when you know, we always hear the stories from
like Jim Ross and everyone else. How like the main

(41:34):
sports just looks upon wrestling as being garbage. As want
to know, like what's your thoughts on that, or like,
why is it all of a sudden becoming a mainstay
thing with them? And I hang up and listen.

Speaker 2 (41:43):
All right, great, Thanks thanks for your question, Joe. Two
good questions, good topic. Pat. ESPN has not covered a
lot of wrestling over the a lot of pro wrestling
over the years. They see themselves as as a sports
as a pure sports brand, and they're sometimes even hesitant
to get too deep into fringe sports in terms of
diving right, and it took himout a while to get
on the MMA bandwagon. You know, you kind of have

(42:05):
to prove yourself for a while before you do that.
The ESPN interview with Rick Flair, which is by Robert Floores.
Flores it's just a blog on the Sports Center section
of ESPN dot com, So I'm not quite sure where
that falls in terms of, you know, an editorial decision

(42:28):
to make it a regular thing.

Speaker 13 (42:33):
Do you remember when Hulk Hogan shocked the world and
formed the New World Order, or when Stone Cold Steve
Austin passed down on the Sharpshooter to break the hit manhard.
I'm Torch contributor Frank Petty Anny and I review these
shows and many more for my exclusive VIP podcast, Pro
Wrestling Than and Now. Together with a rotating chair of
co hosts, we go back ten, twenty, even thirty years,

(42:57):
review pay per views from top to bottom, talk about
where the wrestlers were at the time, and compare what
took place then to what is taking place now. You
get exclusive access to these and other podcasts as part
of your PW Torch VIP membership, which is compatible with
the Apple Podcasts app. Visit pwtorch dot com slash go
vip for details and sign up.

Speaker 2 (43:18):
For anyway, go go ahead with that that. What do
you think is inspiring ACW to give a little bit
more coverage to do it than they have it?

Speaker 3 (43:31):
Okay? I think why ESPN is doing what it's doing
is you know, I mean, in the case of Flair
and Michael's they're retired or semi retired wrestlers and and
that's okay, they're also they're also probably more than a
few or more than a few wrestling fans who work
for ESPN, And you know, the people at ESPN like

(43:52):
a lot of like a lot of reporters are being
pressured to uh to add, to add more blog posts
and more podcasts, come up with, you know, come up
with ways to fill up a space because because you know,
the businesses is built around clicks and and views and
that sort of thing. So I think, yeah, so I

(44:15):
think that you know, if somebody comes up with an
idea for a story or or something that they put
on the website, they're less likely they shoot it down
than they have been.

Speaker 2 (44:24):
Yeah, and again, I don't think we should jump to
too many conclusions about a blog interview with Rick Flair
and then the long interview with Sean Michael Stay ESPN,
especially on on the Sports Guy's column, who's an open
wrestling fan. He's got pretty much the literary license to
do that kind of thing. Uh. I doubt they're going

(44:44):
to be adding a pro wrestling section and doing a
lot of breaking news reports, you know, and and and
doing more. It just doesn't seem to fit within the uh,
the culture. I mean, Bill Simmons that he makes He's
made wrestling references for years and years and years, so
that's not out of the ordinary. I probably need to
see a little bit more than just the Rick Flair
blog here to think something was changing in the in

(45:05):
the ESPN culture and their editorial stance, which you know,
I mean, I think it's a legit stance, not the
cover of pro wrestling. But at the same time, ESPN
Classics has shown a wa for years and pro wrestling
is sports ish, it's kind of sporty, it's it's athletic theater.
And if they wanted to do a whole prog wrestling section,
I bet they'd make a lot of money doing it.
You know that that would be an editorial change, though,

(45:26):
were they to do were they to do anything on
a regular basis. All right, back to the phone lines.
We have two people in line, so we're going through
a lot of phone calls. This is a data college.
If you want to ask a question, we'd love to
hear from first time callers or regulars. The number or
if there's a third category that'd be good too. I
don't know what that would be. Six four, six, seven, two,

(45:46):
one nine eight two eight, is the number six four, six,
seven one nine two eight. Let's go to area code
nine one two. Please stay to name and where you're from.

Speaker 6 (45:57):
Markets from Savannah Joseph.

Speaker 2 (46:01):
Sorry, hey, Marcus, I had to sneeze for a second there,
so I had to meet button push. What's your question
for us? Marcus?

Speaker 6 (46:08):
Yes, that was one. And do you think that maybe
because I just posted this comment in the chat room,
do you think that maybe would were every one by
Kevin to knee is Casey and on Kane with his
briefcase scenes became an taker really don't need a briefcase
to make their fewed important.

Speaker 3 (46:30):
I just yeah, go ahead, Yeah, I think that's a
I think that's a strong possibility. Especially it would give
uh yeah, it would give more of a meaning to
just smack down starting out, which you know, a boost
to them which they need going into a month or
tips from now. Yeah. I might have been rumors about
that that they're gonna movements to SmackDown somehow.

Speaker 2 (46:52):
I would miss be a good centerpiece babyface on a
SmackDown type ran. Do you think he's a destination personality
somebody who could? I mean, because the thing about them
is that I think ww he's finally caught onto when
he's paid his dues long enough so to speak, and
earned his keith and said the right things on interviews
and showing the right level of inspiration and dedication. He's
done all the right things, and I think he also

(47:15):
carries himself and especially all that he's got the uh
because vinsick Man said he had good legs as mis
joked once, which I thought was hilarious. He's now wearing
you know, traditional wrestling outfit and toning down the kind
of mid card I want a tension look, which I
think is a valid thing to have earlier in your
career and gotten to more of a main event look.
I'm still waiting for John Cena to go with that look. Also,

(47:36):
I've had enough of Geen shorts, by the way. But
I think Mishat carries himself as he's carrying himself more
and more like a legit wrestler who you could imagine
holding a world title. And he's not at that level
where he's had a series of four star matches where
you could imagine, you know, fans in their mind thinking
he has these epic pay per view caliber matches. But
part of that is that he hasn't been called upon

(47:57):
to do that yet, and I think when that time comes,
he still has to prove he can do it. But
I think he can. But I think that one of
the biggest things that he has that Batista had, Randy
Orton has, Seamus has, jbl had. It's one of the
reasons they went with him. John Cena has it is
that sense that if the whole promotion revolves around him,
he feels like he can carry that weight on his
shoulders and be the center of this crazy universe. And

(48:21):
not everybody has that quality, you know, just an obvious
person who didn't have it. Not to be mean, but
Charlie Hats. You didn't look at Charlie Hawss and say
I could see him as a centerpiece of a promotion.
But you look at Kurt Angle Steve Austin, you think
they can be the center. MS has that main event
X factor that I think would work, and I think
it would be a breath of fresh air for them. Again,
maybe it's rushing it, but it'd be a breath of

(48:41):
fresh air to have him perhaps be the centerpiece of
the sci fi showan SmackDown, to give that brand a
new identity because I mean, right now, when you think
of SmackDown, you think of Ray Mistereo Undertaker and Kine
right now, a little bit of jack swagger, but that
was kind of short term and then there's kind of
a drop off and it's a Dolph. It's true, and
you know they haven't gone all the way with KOFE.

(49:02):
So if they're looking to elevate somebody because there's kind
of a leadership gap on SmackDown, the timing might not
be bad for Mes.

Speaker 8 (49:09):
Okay, I.

Speaker 3 (49:11):
Disagree in that. I see Miss, at least for now,
as a main event heel on SmackDown, and maybe, you know, eventually,
I guess he'll become a man in that babyface.

Speaker 2 (49:20):
And I don't think anything I said was predicated on
him being a heeler of face. I think he could
work either way. I'm not for a premature babyface turn either,
So I didn't if if I gave the impression he
had to be a babyface on SmackDown, I guess I
didn't mean to, But I think Miss could go and
be a centerpiece heel on SmackDown. But of course then
you need to have some strong baby faces. But you know,

(49:41):
and I don't know who they are. The problem was
with WWE right now is if you put somebody like
Miz in that main event spot. Let's say he's a
heel champion of SmackDown, who are the babyfaces that you
could put against him where it wouldn't look like it
was an undercard, not an undercard but a mid card match.
You know, if you put Kofee against Miz as your
main event on SmackDown. Specially to the people not paying
attention full time every single week, we haven't seen the

(50:03):
rise of those characters. It doesn't feel it feels like
SmackDown's week on the established top top stars. So you
need to reshuffle the deck a little bit more to
make that work.

Speaker 3 (50:12):
Yeah, I'd expect to start them out with the Undertaker
and the Big Show, which which will create a different
set of problems.

Speaker 2 (50:17):
By the way, is it would only set of problems Marcus,
anything else for us?

Speaker 6 (50:24):
Yes? Do you think there would have been money to
be made if if Warner Brothers AOL instead of selling
the WCWNWA Saton Library to WWE just make a market
and just release a video their own video libraries and

(50:45):
night Store by Walmart and Target. Knight say based a
Goldbird DVD or Munch of Natural Season one DVD.

Speaker 3 (50:53):
Well, they don't own those rights anymore.

Speaker 2 (50:55):
But well, his question, they didn't sell out to WWE.
Could they have made money? That was a PREMI yeah,
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (51:02):
I don't know how much money they would have made,
and I don't know how interested they would would have
been and putting forth for the effort.

Speaker 2 (51:08):
I think part of I think part of what works
for for what the way WWE does it is they're
able to mix footage from a whole from a whole
stretch of different eras, of different promotions, and that I mean,
I think one of the great things. You know, I'm
not sitting here saying I'm just happy for to I'm
happy that wrestling fans are helping the McMahons by another
penth health condo that they almost never use, or or
that you know, they can spend more money out of

(51:29):
their own talking on political campaigns, I mean putting aside
where the money ends up from a pure product standpoint,
from from the standpoint of serving wrestling fans. I think
it's great that one entity like WWE has so much
acquired footage because it makes those documentaries and those those
best of compilation videos DVDs so much better, so much better.

(51:50):
And so I think if if if AOL at Time,
Warner Turner, whatever, had kept them, then you are you're
limited then to just their library. And also from a
marketing standpoint, if they don't have a wrestling show, they're
not promoting it. And so much of what gets people
excited about buying a DVD is the fact that it

(52:10):
comes out on Tuesday and we're telling you about it,
not Oh, I happen to bump been doing in the
store and it's been collecting dust on the shelf. So
I think from a marketing standpoint, they just wouldn't have
made a lot of money off of it. And I
don't know that anybody in that company would have had
enough interest in putting the time in to make a
good If there is such a thing a best of
Goldberg tape, and I'm being facetious, you could probably get

(52:30):
one DVD out of that, you know, I don't know
who would have the expertise or the interest in doing that.
I think they probably would have eventually sold their library
to WWE one way or the other. You agree with that, Pat, Yeah,
And you.

Speaker 3 (52:41):
Have to remember a lot. I don't know if you do,
but back in the late eighties and the nineties, you know,
Turner Home Entertainment or w CW Home Video or whatever
you want to call it, they were terrible. I mean,
I mean the w you know, the idea of if
the WWW videotapes were always just not good. They Yeah,
they cut matches out of their pay per view releases. Yeah,

(53:04):
I mean yeah, it was not a first class product.
So I don't know that they had the ability.

Speaker 2 (53:10):
Yeah, yep, good point.

Speaker 1 (53:13):
Anytime you're watching WWE Raw or SmackDown or aw Dynamite
in particular, send us an email if you've got thoughts
on the show or a topic you want us to
address or a question for us. Wadekeller Podcast at pwtorch
dot com. Wadkeller Podcast at pewtorch dot com. If there's
anything else going on in pro wrestling that you want
us to address on our main podcast during our Mailbank segments,

(53:36):
that same email applies Wadekeller Podcast at pwtorch dot com.
We invite that interaction. Let us know what you think
of what we're saying, and let us know what you
want us to talk about and ask us specific questions.
Wadkeller Podcast at pw torch dot com.

Speaker 2 (53:52):
Our number here is six four six seven two one
nine eight two eight. We've got twelve minutes left on
the show and we have two people on hold. You
can be number three, and we've got a very good
chance to get to at least three or four more
callers as we have a lot of phone calls that
we're getting to today. Let's go to Erico two one five.
Please state your name and where you're from.

Speaker 14 (54:11):
Hey, this is Eric from Philadelphia.

Speaker 4 (54:13):
Eric.

Speaker 2 (54:15):
What's up?

Speaker 11 (54:16):
Hi, y'all?

Speaker 14 (54:16):
Don I had a question on one of the other
podcasts I had heard that Serena was released from ww
Did you hear anything about that?

Speaker 12 (54:25):
Yes, she was.

Speaker 2 (54:26):
If you click on on the WWE news section at
pw torch dot com and scanned down probably you know
half a dozen or so stories you see that Monday
night we we had that story. James Caldwell Uh contacted
a source in WWE that broke the news that she
was released for not living her gimmick? What was the

(54:48):
word going around? And that's led a little bit of
confusion and debate as far as what that exactly means.
But yeah, Unfortunately she was a good act, but she
she was released by WWE. Has W Has w W
officially anounced it yet, because I guess it could be
a pending situation. If they haven't, it might be something
that gets reconciled.

Speaker 3 (55:06):
I don't know that. I don't know that they've announced it.
That she announced it on her Twitter.

Speaker 2 (55:12):
Yeah, well, I just I'm surprised WWE hasn't. You know,
it's usually they do. So that's kind of a curious
thing because they try to beat everyone to the punch
when it comes to that kind of news. It's it's
part of their twenty year plan to get rid of
independent media who say mean things about them, and that
plan's going so well, yeah, well you can't. It's it's
not a winnable plan. But uh, they try to do

(55:34):
their damage in the process and then and you know,
they like to control their information, which I understand a
corporation wanting to do. But anyway, Eric, any other follow up?

Speaker 14 (55:42):
Yeah, I have one more follow up, and and your
and your opinion, right, what would an independent promoter have
to do to get his company up to the level
where ECW was a right before they went to TNA?

Speaker 2 (55:57):
Question? Yeah, go ahead, it was a couple of million dollars. Well,
in fairness, I think what he's talking about is the
good the idea of being a player with a product
that's consistent enough and a roster taken seriously enough that
you could get in the door for a meeting with
a cable company and maybe even get time a time
slot as a number three group. And my short answer

(56:20):
to that is have an original product that stands out
from the existing two national TV promotions. And that's not
the slight roh. But I mean, I'm just I just
don't take HD Net. I don't consider the hd net
exposure something that really puts them on the map. They
would need a budget. I mean they would need more
of a budget even than ECW had the Turner. I'm sorry.

(56:40):
The landscape right now to get on a major cable
channel when there's so many cable channels out there, and
to make a splash, it's pretty rough and you need
to build up I think, a groundswell for a few
years and then at just the right moment, hit it.
And you know, pay per view is not an instant
cash call for a promotion either, so it's but really

(57:00):
you'd have to do something different and and and really
stand out in a way that's marketable not to a
boutique audience, but to a real mainstream audience. And I'm
not sure who that is. I mean, Lucha Libre USA is,
you know, struggling on a low end uh not low
low rent, but just a low exposure, low low rated
TV network MTV two, r O H is on a

(57:21):
week channel like uh, like ht net. But I mean
there's a couple out there, and they are offering different products.
But to get to the level of BCW, you'd really
have to have a hook and and and then you
would have to have a budget, and you'd have to
have a pretty good roster. I mean with DCW, it
was a perfect It was an imperfect storm, but it
was close enough to a perfect storm that enough things

(57:41):
came together, especially with the mind of Paul Hayman, the
Rabbit fans in the Northeast who really supported this product
that rebelled against the h the blandness and or the
uh kind of the the kitty fa wholesome family entertainment
approach to w w E and the the lost in
the Headlights WCW. IT it was a spark that made

(58:01):
people excited, so it's hard. It's hard to recreate that precisely,
especially at at this time.

Speaker 3 (58:08):
Eric Eric, I'm going to stick with my original answer.

Speaker 2 (58:12):
Eric An, you follow up on that.

Speaker 14 (58:14):
No, y'all are great, and I enjoyed the podcast.

Speaker 2 (58:17):
Keep it up, Thank you great, appreciate it very much.

Speaker 3 (58:20):
Yeah, Pat, let me know when you want to go
to the well. I guess we'll have to do it quickly.
Let me know when you want to go to the
weekend Events Center.

Speaker 4 (58:28):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (58:28):
I was going to transition into that. I want to
give a couple of quick plugs and then we're going
to go live ement Center, and then we're going to
get in the final calls. If you want to get
in the line, We've got two people on hold. We
with a good chance we'll get to three calls in
the last seven minutes. Here the number six four, six, seven,
nine to two eight. As always, if you want to
email a question to us, especially if you can't listen
live and call in or join us in the chat room,
you can email us at PW Torchlive Cast at gmail

(58:51):
dot com. You can also follow us on Twitter at
PW Torch live Cast, and also we're on Facebook Facebook
dot com splash PW Torch Live Cast, you can friend
us on Facebook and follow our updates through that source.
Of course, we encourage you, as always if you're listening
to the show, to visit PW torch dot com several

(59:11):
times a day to get the latest wrestling headlines. We
are updating the site twenty four to seven with breaking
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check us out as a free iPhone app and starting
this week, a free droid app. Just download it and
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(59:34):
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(59:56):
Torch Talk with Al Snow in the next few days here.
I've been transferring that from the old microcassette to MP
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and one hundreds of back issues dating back to the
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(01:00:17):
from twenty years ago. Back Issue Wednesday, as always, is
looked forward to by many VIP members, and you can
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or in most cases, read back issues from five years
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(01:00:40):
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(01:01:04):
seventy five cents more per week, so check out full
details there. Pat, it is time to go to your
live event center. Tell us what's coming up in the
next week.

Speaker 3 (01:01:11):
Oh boy, well I'd better do it quickly, all right.
Starting tomorrow night, WWE Superstars on WG in America. I
know all of you are excited about that, especially this
great main event, Wade gold Dust taking on William Regal.
I've done the t and a impact on Spike TV
Tomorrow night, a show with a lot going on. Another

(01:01:32):
classic match being given away on Free TV. It will
be Jeff Jarrett versus Kevin Nash. Also in the main event,
an eight man tag as the Fortune Team of aj Styles,
Frankie Cargarian, Douglas Williams and Matt Morgan take on Kurt Angle,
Jeff Hardy, the Pope and mister Ken Anderson. And one
of those eight is actually the X Division Champion, believe

(01:01:53):
it or not. On Friday, w W Smackdow will be
on my Network TV. Your main match is Dolph Ziggler
versus Kopie Kingston, a rematch of a rematch over the
Intercatmental title and the World Heavyweight Champion Kane taking on
Ray Masterio in a no disqualification match. Hey, another rematch
from SummerSlam. Lucha Libre Usa on MTV two has been moved.

(01:02:18):
The new time slot is Saturday at noon Eastern, so
be sure to check that out.

Speaker 2 (01:02:24):
No, seriously, I know it's weird, lot.

Speaker 3 (01:02:26):
Yeah. Lucha Libre USA will have a television taping this
Saturday night in Charlotte, North Carolina at the Bojangles Coliseum.
In addition to stars like Tiniblast Junior and Marco Corleone,
Red Flair and David Flair will make their Lucha Libre
Usa debuts. Also in the world of lucha, the Viva
La Lucha group will be holding one of the latest

(01:02:47):
pay per view we'll start airing on Friday night, August
twenty seventh. One of these featured bouts, believe it or not,
is the Young Bucks their Generation Me taking on Phoenix
Star and Zoe Gray in a match that I think
was taped a long time ago. Ring of Honor is
doing their Tag Wars twenty ten shows this weekend. Tomorrow night.
They'll be in Richmond at the Speedway, headlined by Tyler

(01:03:08):
Black versus Ady Edwards, Davey Richards versus Kevin Stein and
the Briscoes taking on the EMBc. Then this Saturday night
they will be in Charlotte at it some sum ExpoCenter
or something, Tyler Black versus Davey Richards, a rematch of
a Match of Year Canada. It will be a non
title match, plus the Ultimate Endurance four way tag team
elimination match, and Rodger Strong versus Kevin Stein. Deep Breath

(01:03:30):
ww HOUSE shows this weekend. Not only will there be
Raw shows and SmackDown shows, but this weekend is the
New England tenth Tour, which means WWC shows which are
headlined by three way matches between soft Sigler, Copy Casin
and Drew McIntyre over the intercontinental title. Of course, This
Monday is Raw on USA Network, the nine hundredth episode,

(01:03:52):
and at a special treat they'll have SmackDown guys on
the show too. WNXT Tuesday Night on sci Fi is
supposed to be the season finale. Apparently their season finale
is coming up. Their series finales coming up pretty soon too.
It will be Cabal, Alex Riley and No and Joe
Henna Gillicutti will be fighting for the title of mister rackst.

(01:04:14):
You've all five us on nine to eleven in Rahway,
New Jersey. Brian Danielson and Homicide will be there. Back
to your Way.

Speaker 15 (01:04:27):
I'm Kelly Wells, host of p WT Talks NXT, the
longest running NXT podcast anywhere. Join me along with Nate Lindberg,
Bruce Lee Hazelwood and special guests, live every Tuesday night,
just minutes after NXT, where we cover the good, the bad,
and the ugly on the way to becoming a star
in WWE. Check us out live on YouTube or stream

(01:04:47):
later wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 2 (01:04:56):
All right, let's go to a couple quick calls and
start in aera code five O five. Please state you name,
where you're from, and a quick comment or question.

Speaker 6 (01:05:05):
Hey guys, if I've been eating New Mexico.

Speaker 2 (01:05:07):
Two quick things there.

Speaker 6 (01:05:08):
First, Puma Scott Hall's WW sponsored REHA.

Speaker 8 (01:05:10):
You think that might be a way to get him
cleaned to maybe dust them in the Hall of fame?

Speaker 14 (01:05:14):
And second, are you guys going to post a two
thousand and six back issues of the.

Speaker 2 (01:05:19):
Newsletter two thousand and six? We'll start posting in twenty
eleven because we do a five years ago format, So
in just a few months now, we'll start at the
beginning of two thousand and six and marchway through the
whole year. As for Scott Hall, he could be. I
think he just needed it. I don't know that there's
any other motivation for the timing of it. And Pat

(01:05:39):
Roke short answered, do you think Scott's a Hall of
Fame candidate for WWE anytime soon?

Speaker 3 (01:05:45):
I mean if they want to get in on a
live sure. I think felt late until Nash is ready
to get in the Hall of Fame and throw them.

Speaker 2 (01:05:50):
Together, that makes sense. Final question or caller five five nine,
Please state your name, where you're from, and a very
quick question or comment. We're down to ten seconds. Steve
from California.

Speaker 3 (01:06:02):
Uh.

Speaker 8 (01:06:03):
I was we were talking about May and Paul Hayman
yesterday and in Strike Force about promoting the product.

Speaker 2 (01:06:09):
I was wondering, what do you guys think about UFC's promotions.
You will cover that in the Effort show. We gotta go.
Thanks everybody for listening. All right, Pat, we.

Speaker 16 (01:06:20):
Are in blog talk Radio.

Speaker 9 (01:06:22):
Goodbye.

Speaker 2 (01:06:24):
We are in the VP after show portion of the
program into Interesting. I'm kind of curious for your thoughts
on this, Pat, you're not a a staunch hardcore MMA follower.
But the last caller, Steve brought this up. Paul Hayman
UH in Strike Force and also us the idea of
USC and how they promote fights. I wish we had

(01:06:44):
more time for Steve, but such is the one hour
time limit that we have. From from what you've seen
about about USC, we haven't really kind of tapped you
on this, but what do you What do you think
about the job that USC does and is there something
that they could do differently that you think would bring
a different type of crowd into following the m m
A product. Is are there things they could learn for
pro wrestling or do you think they're they're good trying

(01:07:04):
to differentiate themselves from it.

Speaker 3 (01:07:07):
I think they're in fact, very happy with the crowd
that they have right now and and would not trade
it for a pro wrestling crowd. UH. And especially in
terms of when you're talking about pay perview by rates,
I don't know. I mean, the rumors about Paul Hayman
and Strikeforce, they're they're there, you know, outside of outside
of the very nice deal they have with Showtime and CBS,

(01:07:29):
UH and the fact that they are putting on women's
matches where UFC does not. I don't see that they have.
You know, they have a lot of assets. They're gonna
get some big name guys, and if they're smart, they
can put the big name guys into uh, you know,
and and create and create some good matches. But I mean,
you can't guarantee that those matches will actually deliver, which
was a problem with their last show on CBS. I mean,

(01:07:51):
the best match on the show happened was the post
stuff was the fight after the main event.

Speaker 2 (01:07:57):
Well, and I think I think one of the big
things with UFC, as you said, they're happy with the
crowd that they have. You don't want to you don't
want to mess with it by seeming like you're you're
hyping things too much. But I think there are there
is going to come a time where UFC is not
going to be as inherently popular or hot of a
product or the new thing, and they may need to
do a little bit better job. And it's not like
the NFL and the NBA don't promote their product and

(01:08:19):
their athletes. And I think USC has a little bit
of a of a casual uh you know, las a
fair approach to to promoting their fights sometimes and and
and I think they've gotten away with it so far.
But I think that there's they could do a better
job with some video features. I think they could hire
a h I think they'd it'd be great if they'd
hire a video editor. Uh datsa hotty type to go

(01:08:41):
in there and and make those UFC pay per views.
Uh see, when you're watching one UFC pay per view,
I think it would make sense to take the next
main event or the next top two or three matches
and during the during the pay per view, especially you
know if if it gets bumped and gets bumped, you know,
if you have every match goes to a draw. But
I think there's room for a ninety second or two
minute music video or highlight video that shows highlights and

(01:09:04):
puts in perspective in a real concise way who the
fighters are in the next card. And I don't think
they do a good enough job with that. I think
they assume all one million candidates to buy their pay
per views, one million plus all know everything about every fighter,
And I would like to see them do a better job,
like at the last pay per view or the last
special one versus give us a little bit more on
Frankie edgerrigainst Pjpen And I think they fall back on

(01:09:28):
just oh, we'll just interview the fighter at ringside if
they happen to be at the event, and we'll interview
Randyotour and James Tony and that's all we have to do.
And I think they could do more, and I think
that it would help them to do that, if not
a lot right now, somewhat right now, and a lot
when maybe they aren't as hot of a promotion as
they are now Strikeforce they're number two. You got to

(01:09:48):
be more creative. You've got to find a niche for
yourself and be different and really just market your reason
for even existing. And if your market for your reason
for existing, and this has been T and A's problem
is we're an alternative to the group that has the
better wrestlers, the better production values, more fans, and in
a better name brand. Well that that's not enough. You know,

(01:10:08):
you can't say we're in this business because we want
to compete with number one. You have to have something
more than we try harder, you know, like the old
old hurtz Avis thing. And then they don't do that
you know, Strikeforce doesn't have that reason for existence, and
K and A can't figure out what that reason is
other than collecting paychecks.

Speaker 3 (01:10:25):
Go ahead, Pat, Yeah, I think they have to harken
back to how it was done twenty five or thirty
years ago. They're gonna have to get you know, Strikeforce
is gonna have to get their top fighters and their
champions over as you know, as zvest in the world better.
You know guys that you can literally can believe can
take on the best UFC guys and either win or

(01:10:46):
at least give them a fight. And you know that's
they've had some problems with that. Let's just put it
that way.

Speaker 2 (01:10:52):
Yeah. Yeah, Have you got any questions in your McNeil
mail bag this week?

Speaker 11 (01:10:57):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (01:10:58):
Fortunately I do not toy nine to ten ed from
I think Norfolk. Anyway, he adds two questions this week,
and we'll bounce him off for you. He wants to
know the top five worst wrestler outfits of all time,
and he has pletely submitted a couple of examples won
the giant Gonzales hairy bodysuit from early nineties WWF yeah,

(01:11:21):
and the mid nineties double j Neon outfits and I
think we can probably find room for that was in
the discussion.

Speaker 2 (01:11:29):
The first thing that the first thing that I thought
of when you asked that question was was almost anything
Jeff Jarrett War from nineteen eighty five through two thousand
and eight. I think he's gotten a little bit better
last couple of years, not standing out as somebody woefully
color blind and out of touch with fashion and with
no sense of what would help is an enhance his
character versus heard it. So, yeah, a lot of things

(01:11:49):
Jeff yar at War. I mean, I've got a pretty
good photo collection of photos I've taken and also other
photographers that I've commissioned over the years. And I mean this,
when I go through the Jeff Jared file, it's just
a I mean it's atrocious. How his his lack of
style and and the weird colors, and it's just it
wasn't a It just it wasn't flattering. So a lot

(01:12:10):
of stuff that he wore jumps out at me. Uh,
what what are the candidate's pat Let me.

Speaker 3 (01:12:14):
Think, Well, one that springs to mind right away, and
it's gonna segue into the next question, is the shockmaster
that was uh, you know when a guy comes out
and he's got on a fake Star Wars Stormtrooper mask on,
you know, covered in glitter. That's that's that's a bad sign.
The Dingdongs and the short lived team from w c

(01:12:35):
W that uh. That springs to mind the Ultimate Warrior
when he uh, when he had the body suits and
the one body suit that looked like the slim good
body suit where you can see his internal organs, that
I thought was pretty bad.

Speaker 11 (01:12:50):
That could be.

Speaker 3 (01:12:53):
Let me think here, let's.

Speaker 2 (01:12:55):
Thought. I thought there was a time, and some people
might disagree with me on this, but I thought that
in d w E, the Legion of Doom had outfits
that looked too much like they bought them at Toys
r US and not enough like they would be worn
by you know, an exaggeration of tough guys on the street.
So I thought, you know, for hurting somebody, I thought
that was bad. I think AJ styles and a Rick
Flair robe who counts it should be on the list

(01:13:18):
for some of the for a pretty big mismatch in
terms of in terms of an outfit.

Speaker 3 (01:13:23):
Oh, I will go with the short lived WWF gimmick
for Mike Shaw of Friar Ferguson.

Speaker 2 (01:13:31):
I don't even remember that.

Speaker 3 (01:13:33):
Yeah, I think he was on for a couple of
weeks and then they took him off and repackaged him
as Bashing Burger, which also would be another example of
a of an unpleasant uh unpleasant wardrobe.

Speaker 2 (01:13:44):
There, we're getting into the territory of worst gimmicks. But
Firebreaker Chip for for many many reasons, it was a
bad outfit. Oh this is a good good category.

Speaker 3 (01:13:57):
Oh yeah, this is this is yeah, this is good stuff.
I know. Jeez, I'm trying to think. Yeah, I mean
there have been.

Speaker 2 (01:14:08):
It's a good VP forum thread.

Speaker 3 (01:14:10):
Oh, Mordecai might be a good one.

Speaker 2 (01:14:12):
Yeah, yes, all right, Well, we know we're missing some
obvious ones. We can start a thread in the Pat
McNeill zone with some people any other McNeil zone questions.

Speaker 3 (01:14:22):
Well, his second was the best candidate for wrestling blooper
reel and one that we you know, one that was
trotted out many times in the nineties at h at
that that McNeil gatherings was the Shockmaster Walking. Okay, I
might have to explain this for some of our younger viewers.
Back in nineteen ninety three when WW really really sucked.

(01:14:43):
They were setting up their annual war games and for
whatever reason they needed the uh Sting's team needed a
fourth member to go after I think it was Vader's team.
And you know, for for whatever reason, the the the
the main candidates weren't cutting it, so they so Dusty
Rohase was booking I know this will shock you, and
he decided to bring in Fred Opman aka Tugboat aka

(01:15:07):
I think Dusty's brother in law. Has that sound right, yeah?
And uh, and they put him. They put him in
a uh, in a weird looking uh but I don't
know what you'd call it, brown suit with a fake
Star Wars storm trooper mask on his head. And they
had Olie Anderson, you know, doing a voice, you know,
doing this weird, h distorted voice from from off camera.

(01:15:29):
You know, the same voice he used for the Black Scorpion,
by the way. And uh. They were doing an interview
on the Rick Flair Flair for the Gold set where
where they'd interview both teams and Sting would bring out
the new member, uh, the Shockmaster. Fred Oughtman was supposed
to crash through a fake wall and you know, burst
into the scene and make his impressive debut. What happened is,

(01:15:49):
you know that the flash, you know, the Flash of
the Pirate or whatever went off. Fred Fred Outman went
to go through the wall, got about halfway through it tripped,
fell down on his face, and the storm Trooper helmet
rolled off of his head, you know, and and sort
of rolled around on the ground, revealing, of course that
it was Fred otten. And we talk about because they

(01:16:11):
like the geniuses that they are decided to do this
one live. Yes, it was so bad that Jesse Ventura
spent the rest of the broadcast laughing about how bad
it was. And they pretty much dropped the whole Shockmaster
character almost immediately.

Speaker 2 (01:16:25):
And let's get in mind, had the Shockmaster not tripped
and fallen, it's still might have been horrible. It wasn't.
It wasn't one of the great gimmick ideas ever, No,
it was.

Speaker 3 (01:16:35):
It was not impressive.

Speaker 2 (01:16:37):
What I'm trying to think of out the other blooper ideas.
Didn't she didn't part of Sane Douglas's body fall out
of his wrestling trunks once on television. I think that
would count as a blooper. Yeah, I mean they you know,
but a few tor drobe malfunctions.

Speaker 3 (01:16:54):
Right, Yeah, there've been a couple of order of malfunctions.
I organize that. You know, you could, I mean, if
you were in a mean mood, you could. You could
pretty much pick apart any episode of Impact and find
a blooper there somewhere. But that's, you know, for live television.
The other great live television moment was that the Clash
of the Champions where I think it was Eddie Gerer
and Brian Pillman and Pilman decided to duck out of

(01:17:16):
the ring and hide behind Bobby Heman, who was announcing
it ringside and Bobby Bobby was not aware this was
going to happen, so when he feels Pilman behind him,
he turns around and says, what the s Yeah, yelp.

Speaker 2 (01:17:29):
And then there's the fake bloopers like me and Jeane
when the sign fell behind him and he went into
that holy yeah, you know whatever that was.

Speaker 3 (01:17:36):
I think I heard they'd have these Colosseum video videos
where they would do bloopers that they had obviously faked
and rehearsed in time and inserted in the tape, and
that was not in and of itself.

Speaker 14 (01:17:50):
Was awful.

Speaker 1 (01:17:51):
So yeah, yeah, thanks for downloading today's show. Take it
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(01:18:12):
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Speaker 2 (01:18:34):
Any other questions Pat from the mc vip Pat McNeil,
doone those?

Speaker 11 (01:18:39):
Are it?

Speaker 3 (01:18:40):
Unless unmust you have another?

Speaker 2 (01:18:41):
We have a we have a pw U a PWh
Torch live cast email question that was requested to be
answered on the VIP after show, so it makes what's that? No,
it wasn't Bruce Mitchell, It's Elliott, Okay. Elliott says, just
wondering if do you think bringing gold dust over to
SmackDown a feud with his now dashing brother has potential

(01:19:05):
as a good angle to get Cody over.

Speaker 3 (01:19:08):
Oh, they're gonna hate that, because they will. Yeah, I
don't think they'll want to do it. I don't think
that they. I think that they see gold Dust as somebody,
you know, who's a who's I guess a journeyman or
a role player, or somebody that you use to send
out on the road to work with, you know, to
work with young guys who need experience at the house shows.
And I think in their view, you know, Cody Roads

(01:19:29):
has already proven himself and therefore there's no real reason
to do any gold Dust versus Cody Roads. Dude. Yeah,
I mean, I mean other than the fact that other
than the fact that they are brothers. Yeah, I don't
think it's anything that they would think of as a
as a money maker, And for that reason, I think
they would avoid doing it at all.

Speaker 2 (01:19:49):
I think there's a possibility they'll do it, but I
don't know that if they do it, it's it's a
ringing endorsement of their faith in Cody Roads, because I
think they look at gold Dust kind of like I
look at William Regal and kind of in a different way,
but similar spot on the card. Zach Ryder, he's kind
of a Scotty, too hotty. He's just he's a veteran
who hangs out. He's a good hand, but they're not

(01:20:10):
quite sure what to do with him. I mean, the gimmick.
They don't even know what to do with a gimmick anymore.
But they keep him in the in the big outfit,
and it's just weird. He's somebody who I think is
in pretty good shape and they could do more with
But I do think they look at him as a
bit of a relic who's a veteran who's kind of
earned his job, and they he probably now has Valvenus
a spot if you were to kind of narrow it

(01:20:31):
down to what spot he has. But that said, you know,
they could there's a there is a built and storyline there.
It might be a way to occupy Cody if those
two did want to have a feud against each other,
if they wanted to have a series on national TV
and management was willing to do them a favor, I mean,
they could do a short TV program. I don't see
it making pay per view, even though I like gold

(01:20:52):
Dust I think he's got himself in shape and is
deserving of better than he has.

Speaker 3 (01:20:56):
Yeah, he's made quite a comeback his last round the
DNA that didn't got it well, So yeah, it's good
to see him taking an interest.

Speaker 2 (01:21:06):
Yes, this is an observation email but worth commenting on.
Todd Oblack says, I want to do bring up something
I might make for a good discussion. I know the
standard wrestling match is normally called in the ring by
the veteran or the heel, depending on the situation. The
referee has the ear piece to know when it's time
to go home go to the finish. I get that,
but how does the director of TV get the shots

(01:21:26):
they want? Well, I may have stumbled across an answer.
I was watching Tuesday's NXT on the DVR last night
and this question was submitted last Wednesday, and noticed something
that struck me as very odd. After the Kofee versus
Alex Riley match, well, Coffee was celebrating on the turnbuck
O'Riley was on his back selling, the referee was crouched
over him talking and then you can plainly see the
cameraman slap the ring hard four or five times, and

(01:21:47):
the referee moves out of the way and Alex goes
right back to selling while the shot moves to the
cameraman focused on Riley. If you want to see it
for yourself, go back and watch you again. It's plainly visible.
Not that this is really newsworthy, but it did surprise
me a bit. And I've never heard this mentioned before.
Is this something you've ever heard it before, or is
this something fairly new. I'll add one anecdote to that.
There was at the last Robins that I went to

(01:22:08):
several months back, Jack Swager made his ring entrance, and
this was before he did kind of got more serious
and he was still kind of lower mid card, and
he did kind of dance in the ring with his
arms extended when he entered the ring, with that kind
of big goofy grin, and he did that while his
music played, and then he stopped. Well, they weren't back
from the break yet, or they were still at a

(01:22:28):
video or something, and so the cameraman at ringside, if
I remember right, it was a cameraman signaled to Swagger
with his hands, go back to your little dance jump.
You know, you're jumping dance routine, And so Swager had
stopped doing it, then all of a sudden, he just
started doing it again out of the blue. It was
very awkward looking. I thought it wasn't worth the TV
shot to do it. I mean I thought I thought

(01:22:51):
it looked really bad in front of the fans. To
make it look like the wrestler was answering to a
cameraman at ringside. I think the rest I think the
camera in the image should be helped. It should be
steadfast that the cameraman cameramen are there to document what's happening,
not direct what's happening. And I think they could have
done without that shot on television. And and you know,

(01:23:11):
it kind of irritated me as a fan, and I'm
sure a lot of other fans saw that and thought
it was kind of goofy. I think it emasculates Slager
a little bit to go into awkwardly go back into
an answer team because the cameraman told them so that
kind of thing does happen. Pat anything to add to,
you know, the directing of wrestlers.

Speaker 3 (01:23:27):
I mean in WWE, they also do a run through
of you know, for major shows, so that you know,
so that everyone will have an idea. You know, we'll
have a basic idea of what they're supposed to be doing,
and you know, and preparing for particular stoffs. And I
think that helps out the video production crew a lot.
And and you know, most of you're talking about live shows,

(01:23:48):
because when you're doing a show that's being taped, unless
you're t and A, you can go back and find
you know, you have multiple cameras running and you can
all you can go back and find the right shot
that you want. Although WWE has a good director and
uh and good production crew and they're used to and
they've done it for a lot of years, and they're
used to doing things on the fly, they rarely go
back in and correct things.

Speaker 7 (01:24:09):
He U.

Speaker 2 (01:24:11):
The way WWE directs, I think shows a level of
just wisdom and experience being passed on year after year
after year. It's there's some turnover in terms of who's
actually at the butt, who's actually at the controls. But
the things that they do if you watch that show
on a just the subtle things that they do, and
I point these out sometimes in my report, especially on

(01:24:31):
a live raw or live pay per view where they
don't have the benefit of post production. There are some
things that they do that are so good and and
if you're a fan of if you're a student of
live event coverage, and you watch WWE, there's a lot
to marvel at. I mean, there's a lot of polish
to what they do. I mean, they've had many years.

Speaker 3 (01:24:51):
That is one of the things that Actually the last
time Bill Simmons Today Wrestling column, which was on Wrestling
at twenty six, he pointed out the how good WWE's
production team was, you know, especially when he stack it
against people like the CBS doing the college basketball tournament. Yeah,
and that they are, you know, I mean, they weren't

(01:25:12):
that way twenty five years ago, but they, you know,
over time have have learned and gotten better, and you know,
and that is one thing that they can point to
that really no other wrestling company in North America and
probably not in the world can do.

Speaker 2 (01:25:28):
Let's get in one more question here before I wrap up.
This comes from Lamar, who email the PW Torch live
cast email and says LPW Torch Crew, My question is,
with Randy Orton seemingly taking on more of a stone
cold like character, do you think he has had those
standout moments like Austin did, for example, not submitting to
Brett Hark. If not, what do you think that moment
or moments will be and what do you suggest?

Speaker 3 (01:25:49):
You know, it's it's not fair really because it's a
different are You know, Steve Austin could drive down to
the ring in a beer truck and spread everybody and
then attack them. And really, you know, Randy Orton is
is not that that sort of character. He's more I
guess he's he's more cold blooded the well, at least
that's what they're trying to get over. Yeah, I don't know,

(01:26:11):
I can't really think of I mean, you look, I mean,
that's that's the way w W is now. And we
talked about that a couple of weeks ago with John Cena.
You know, it's hard to point to the signature moments
in uh in Randy Orton's career. And that's you know,
that's that's one of the problems he faces. I I
see him.

Speaker 2 (01:26:29):
It's important. I would add this pad just to add
to what you're saying. Is is often had a moment
before he had been in forty seven pay per view
made events. You know that and and and Brett Hart
was kind of solidifying his move up a notch. Orton
is way past that stage in WWE, So I don't
know that there can be that that moment. I think
you would have to go back five years and go

(01:26:52):
at some point he probably had some sort of a moment,
uh But but I don't think you would be looking
I don't think WW looks at him the way they
looked at Boston, you know a few months before that
bront Heart match. I think they think he's beyond that
in a lot of ways, in terms of how many
times he's headlined and and the fan perception of him
as a headliner. I do think there's some stone cold

(01:27:12):
aspect to his character. They want him to be a
more edgy babyface, but I don't know that they can
force a moment on him. I think they just have
to book them in the best way that they think
they can, and in a way that that that will
bring in new fans and and not seem put on
or fake, because I don't think Orton when they turn
a baby face prematurely years ago, you know, the smile

(01:27:32):
and Randy Orton just didn't work. I mean people didn't
buy him in that role.

Speaker 3 (01:27:37):
I mean, yeah, it's been. Uh, I don't think that.
I don't think that they believe Randy has reached his
peak yet in terms of popularity. I mean, there's still
there's still a chance that he could, you know, be
the number one guy. I'm saying that maybe you know,
or I mean it sounds funny to say, because Orton
has made event to WrestleMania, it's wise at this point exactly. Yeah, yeah,

(01:27:58):
I mean he hasn't gone as uh, it's fun. You know,
there was a whole thing with where him with him
doing a series of soccer kicks on people, and they've
gotten away.

Speaker 12 (01:28:06):
From that, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:28:09):
And Uh, I mean I thought he was going to
have his moment, you know, I thought he was gonna
have his moment during the feud with the McMahon's after
after he laid out you know, Stephanie and uh and
Vince and I think Shane at one point. But you know,
they they never really pulled the trigger on that.

Speaker 2 (01:28:24):
All right, Pat, We'll end on that note. It's pleasures
always have you. As he co hosted the p W
towrs lodcast and a very good column this week on mcfoley,
anybody listening to this has not uh has not read
your column on Mick Foley yet. It's a it's a good, good,
good way to catch up.

Speaker 3 (01:28:41):
It's an abridged version of the mcfoley blog.

Speaker 2 (01:28:44):
You know, yes it is, and it's not not embellis
at all. It's just you just cut out a few
sentences here and there to trim it down.

Speaker 3 (01:28:49):
But I just moved a few I just moved a
few words around.

Speaker 2 (01:28:52):
And occasionally a few letters. But yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly,
very good, bad things. So much. Thanks to all the
VIP members for joining us today and until next time
on behalf of Pat McNeil. This is PW Torch editor Wadekeller,
thanking you for listening and for your support and signing up.

Speaker 1 (01:29:26):
Invite you to email the show with feedback or questions
or comments. That email address is Wade Keller Podcast at
pewtorch dot com. That's Wadekeller Podcast at PW torch dot com.
Also welcome your feedback on Twitter. You can follow us
on Twitter at PW Torch and follow me at the
Wade Keller That's at PW Torch and at the Wade Keller.

Speaker 16 (01:29:49):
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