15 YRS AGO LIVECASTS: McMahon's YouTube video & WWE's response to "criticism," Bischoff-Bret, Tough Enough's return, Stand Up For WWE, more

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Give yourself a reason to look forward to go into
the mailbox each week with a PW Torch newsletter paper copy.
Subscription details at PW torch dot com slash paper Copy.
It's twelve pages every week packed with my TV reports,
along with exclusive features such as my cover story on
the top story of the week, our pay per view
roundtable reviews from the Torch staff, exclusive feature length columns

(00:21):
from Greg Parks, Rich Fan, Sean Radikin, Alan Coonahan and
Zach Hadorn, Torch Talk transcripts, the latest news and more.
PW torch dot com slash paper Copy. Take a break
from screen time and settle in every week with the
megadosup wrestling news and analysis with a Pro Wrestling Torch
Newsletter paper Copy edition. In the year twenty twenty two,

(00:43):
you can get a full year of home delivery for
just ninety nine dollars, or try us for an eight
week trial subscription. PW torch dot Com Slash Paper Copy.

Speaker 2 (01:05):
Now PW Torch and Speaker bring you the Wade Keller
Pro Wrestling Podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:16):
Today on the Way Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast. We got
a doubleheader from fifteen years ago. First up the October eighteenth,
twenty ten episode of the PW Torch Live Cast with
live callers featuring PW Torch Assistant editor James Caldwell and
PW Torch Senior columnist Bruce Mitchell, discussing with live callers
Vince McMahon's YouTube video and what it says about the
state of WWE, weather McMahon should be removed from Power

(01:39):
in WWE, A historical perspective on WWE quote rallying the troops.
Also thoughts on that night's raw, WWE's One Big Ace
in the Hole with John c And and Wade Barrett, the
lack of hype for the Randy Orton wadebar pay per
view match, TNA's booking of female TV characters, WWE and TNA,
struggling on house show tours without access to John Cena

(02:01):
and Jeff Hardy on the tour, and more. Then the
second episode from October nineteenth, twenty twenty, I was joined
by Jason powelloprog Wrestling dot Net for what would become
the flagship. We talked about rob from the night before,
final hype for Sunday's breaking.

Speaker 3 (02:13):
Right to pay perview.

Speaker 1 (02:14):
We also talked to callers about the previous week's impact
the dismal cord or ratings trends, whether W might check
up their approach to pay perviews, the Eric Bischoff Brettheart
War of Words, Linna mc man's future if she were
to lose her senate race, the whole we did not
guess that one right, the stand Up for w campaign,
and more. This includes the previously v IP exclusive after show.

(02:35):
So let's get to it. This is the Way Keller
Pro Wrestling Podcast fifteen years ago. Flashback for Monday, October twentieth,
twenty twenty five. Don't forget tomorrow we'll have a new
flightship for you, so check back for that.

Speaker 2 (02:51):
You're listening to the PW Torch Live. Yes, this is
PW Torch Assistant editor James Caldwell hosting today on Monday
October eighteenth in twenty ten. Joined today by Sports colmis
Bruce Mitchell. Bruce, how are you doing today?

Speaker 3 (03:06):
Doing on? Looking forward to the show tonight?

Speaker 2 (03:08):
Obviously I don want to talk about you know, you
can start with Rod tonight, you can start with Vince
McMann and ww's latest campaign sort of campaign against what
they call it negative criticism. Bruce, what what's your taker?
Off the bat on on what ww is doing, and

(03:29):
why do they are choosing now to kind of you know,
whether whether it's rallying the Islando or just rallying the company,
so whytching waiting, they're choosing to do this right now.

Speaker 3 (03:41):
Well, a lot of the choosing to do it right
now is because there's been a lot of media coverage
of w w A and Limit Man is going up
for elections to the Senate on November the second, you know,
And I support miss McMahon in this endeavor. I've just
spent the last twenty years of my life trying to
cool up this leading wrestling stories about w w A.
So I'm glad see that he he has garnered as

(04:02):
truths and w w Nation is going to join me
in that. And I can't help him with the negative
coverage that is in fact not misleading, because that's not
my that's not my thing. I'm just the misleading part.
I'll continue to help him with. I think that this
man doesn't like to get criticized, likes to do what
he wants to do, and he's and he's found he

(04:25):
can't control the media. Uh you know what I want
to hear which stories he thinks from this leading and
that should be an interesting thing. But rallying that. I mean,
over the years, I've met a lot of I've met
a lot of wrestling fans and spoke with my message
boards on the radio shows like this and the cinema shows,
and there is a minority of wrestling fans who don't

(04:47):
care that Russeller's guy who don't who don't care if
that they're on Soma's or you know, as long as
they get their entertainment and actively resent people when they
cruise US w W, even even in this you of
life and death, But they don't say, James, I think
you would you might agree with me about this is
if I wasn't man, I'm followed. Whoever did this.

Speaker 2 (05:07):
Make up for that?

Speaker 3 (05:08):
For that YouTube video? But YouTube video, I was just.

Speaker 2 (05:16):
He looked like he was, you know, eighty years old.
You know, he looked haggard and and like he had
it slept in a couple of days, which you know
it could be the case.

Speaker 3 (05:26):
Well you know, I mean, you know he's trying to
be a flitt but I mean, at least someone could
have waited some of that lipstick off. I mean, that
was just ridiculous. I mean, I've never seen him work
quite that way. He's usually you know, a handsome, wordless
looking filman. But but that was that was something.

Speaker 4 (05:44):
It was almost for the presentation, which was, you know,
look at all these things I've done to us.

Speaker 2 (05:48):
You know, I even I evinced a man the you know,
the most uh uh, the greatest star that I've ever created,
and the genetic Jackham looks like this has done to me.
I've been reduced to puffy eyes and sat in a
sad face. You know, it's a I don't know, I
don't that's part of marchin or like you said, it's

(06:09):
just a bad makeup crew. Yeah, that that video, Oh
my goodness, it's just uh in this kind of what
came to mind watching this thing and watching how w
W has tried, how the troops was, you know what
what you and Wade Keller have covered or what he
did cover the nineteen ninety four zeroid trial when you
had all the the w fans kind of line up

(06:32):
outside the courthouse where there was the pins and the
buttons supporting w W. Uh, you know what kind of
similarities do you see between this and that?

Speaker 3 (06:41):
Well, I mean there's just there are people in this
world there's the number one thing that's they're entertainment. There's
a lot of people like that in this world. There
there's people in this world. There's number one entertainment. What's
the most important to them? This w you know, professional rustling.
But I don't know that they're gonna have anything to
say that's gonna display anybody's away the voters unless there's
a lap of Lesley fans in Connecticut that weren't planning

(07:03):
on voting till now. Bu And it's worth a shot
for them. They're still not that far off. I don't
think Man's that far off of Richard Blomenthal. So it's
worth the shot.

Speaker 4 (07:16):
Yeah, I mean she's down. You know the latest poll
she was down.

Speaker 2 (07:20):
Eight points, she was within three, and then she was
down with to within eleven. You know, there's the other
theory and something that that er Muching wrote about his
blog today was that drafteds w B is saying, you
know what, the Liniman Mansonic campaign has brought to a
lot of these issues that we hear the Torch has
been covering for you know, two decades. A lot of

(07:42):
the rest were health issues, and all of a sudden,
Lenda's campaign has brought that to light kind of, you know,
and it hit us in a contractor investigation and other
health issues that are finally kind of coming from with
coming from below the surface to the forefront. Uh do
you think this is sort of a more about w
B than lendas can paint at this point?

Speaker 3 (08:02):
Well, I mean, I think that's part of it too.
And you know, they faced Wall Street Journal and I
want to say luminthhals. I don't think that's it, but anyway,
advantages of whatever it is they say, they say some
real criticism in the financial press, and then the doc
is over price and faces these troubles and uh, you
know this is the one where maybe may not some

(08:23):
of these strengths may stick and we'll see it for
November second. But that that's got to be part of it.
And I think, you know, it used to be that.
I mean for many decades, millionaires and billionaires couldn't pullish
something like this. They couldn't go on their own programming
and give political you know, give political views unless they

(08:44):
gave equal time. There's an equal time statute that was
out for many, many many years. They got pulled when
the regular administration came to power and they also, you know,
you also couldn't buy up, you couldn't buy our own network,
you couldn't buy several stations in the same market, and
that kind of thing. So what the idea was to keep,

(09:04):
to keep a level of fairness that someone could you know,
in other words, that someone went are on their on
their wrestling show and did that in the refee show
to turn around and give the opposing viewpoints to be fair.
So and that was supported by both the Republican and
Democrats back in the in those times. So that pot
that the Fearmans issue there too. But I think that

(09:25):
I think that we live in you need times. It's
not just this a man where working class people are
upset and up in arms at the at the lack
of rights of rich people to make more money. And
that's never happened before. So I don't know. I mean,
that's you know, it's real interesting. I always I'm always

(09:48):
like the once in my wrestling show, I don't want
to hear about should the people right now think of
this as we talk about this, I don't want to
hear about politics. I want to see the wrestle. So,
I mean, I wonder if there won't be a little
bit of a backlash to this, we will say.

Speaker 2 (10:03):
Yeah kind of you know, don't don't interfere my entertainment.

Speaker 3 (10:06):
With sort of your political view type deal show.

Speaker 2 (10:09):
And that's what we're gonna get from a man, you know,
is he you know, he's supposed to deliver whatever the
special message that I don't believe is the main character.
I believe he's going to be the They might just
replay a YouTube video, but it might be a different message.

Speaker 3 (10:23):
I mean, he'll be in the the wiser coming of
all the you know, the daddy a professional roughing character. Yeah, yeah,
character from the Mystery Man, you know, evil bombast character, right.

Speaker 4 (10:37):
Yeah, no, good point, good distinction there.

Speaker 2 (10:40):
Yeah, son, I'm gonna be very fascinated to see. Look
at the website. I mean it's all political, it's all
you know, uh, this little what's in the campaign you know,
support w W campaign, uh w w's relationship with politics, and
then away down there on their home pages.

Speaker 4 (10:57):
Oh yeah, this row to Night you know.

Speaker 3 (10:59):
So, I mean this will take.

Speaker 2 (10:59):
A uh a position ahead of promoting their top show,
and which in turn is taking a position ahead of
promoting their pay per view on Sunday. So I imagine
that the balance of the show tonight will be on
you know, raw and content and storyline advancement and pay
per view, not so much to make man's vantage. So

(11:20):
looking at that, Bruce, I mean tonight's show, you have
Orton and Sena in sort of the domain. I guess
the main event TV noshing, it's McGill and cutting Harris.
You know about the worry bragging Wright's final hype.

Speaker 3 (11:31):
What's going to be expectations for tonight's show? You know,
I just expect that Johnson will get that get very
very close to punching out way there, and then he
won't do it for whatever reason. I mean, I think
that's the stories. I don't be the Bestic store, and
I suspect they'll do a good job of getting you
some news and out to with her.

Speaker 2 (11:52):
Yeah, you know, that's you know, I think we're gonna
see a lot of that over the next several weeks
and perhaps months leadings or Survivors series and then TLC
on the rubble. Let me imagine this se' is gonna
last a while, so very fascines see how it plays
out tonight, of course, especially with the seventh member of
Teams Raw to be announced from the show tonight, So

(12:14):
we'll be following all that on pebtorch dot com.

Speaker 5 (12:18):
Jam.

Speaker 2 (12:18):
You're listening to the pn B Torch live cast. You'renna
join us on the air live taking your phone calls.
The number to call is six four six seven ninety eight.
What's our first phone call today? From the ninety three
to one area code? Because it says Ian have it Tennesseean.
How are you doing today?

Speaker 6 (12:35):
Good?

Speaker 3 (12:36):
How you guys doing doing good?

Speaker 2 (12:38):
What do you of course say?

Speaker 3 (12:40):
Well?

Speaker 7 (12:40):
I just wanted to comment about this whole image campaign
that they're trying to put out and I watched it
unfolded over the weekend and it just seems really pitiful
that they want.

Speaker 8 (12:52):
To spend this like, you know, woe is me.

Speaker 3 (12:55):
Look, we're good holds.

Speaker 7 (12:57):
In entertainment, but they want to kind of distract and
sugarcoat from the real questions that are being asked about,
you know, the desks and the drugs and and everything
like that. And you know, it just seems like this
just this big publicity campaign to just show that it's
not such a bad show.

Speaker 2 (13:18):
Pretty switch reaction.

Speaker 3 (13:21):
Uh, you know, this depends on millions of dollars on
his campaign, it looked like, you know, I mean, if
you're gonna bet right now, bet that that woman man
is going to lose. And not only are they gonna
lose them if she does, or it is not only
going to lose the money that they put off, but
the w W has got a lot of you know,
has got people, has got investators coming in and looking
at the independent contract status. They've got a lot of

(13:43):
eyes on them. And they've taken a beating in the press,
and I think a their beating, but a beating nonetheless.
And so you know, this man's this a man always
wants to fight back, and it's gonna be interested in
how he fights back. Is he stubborn, is he defied
or is the know or does he try to play
reasonable events which he's not very good at. So I

(14:04):
think the stakes are high, and I think that this
is more than just a pay per view that quite
frankly is going to take a vating this weekend. I mean,
it's up against Rock Lesner, It's it's up against football,
it's up you know, a styxy football game and the
Packers and the Vigas. I mean, it's up against a
lot of stuff. So it's going to have you know,
it's it's you know, they're bigger stakes for them than

(14:26):
you know, a few more you know, fifty thousand more
buys on pay per views.

Speaker 1 (14:31):
You can support us on Patreon and get these shows
with ads and plugs remove the weight Killer prosing podcast,
weight Killer Prossing post shows, and the PW Torch daily
cast throughout the week with ads and plugs remove, plus
a few bonus VIP shows throughout the month for just
four dollars and ninety nine cents a month. Check it
out patreon dot com slash PW torch vi ip. That's

(14:52):
patreon dot com slash PW Torch vip and you can
also upgrade to other tiers and receive even more benefits
through Patreon.

Speaker 2 (15:02):
First, do you think it's it's time for investors to
ask questions as well? Such as should another person be
the CEO of the company?

Speaker 4 (15:14):
Shouldn't that man's be out of power?

Speaker 3 (15:16):
To me? Watching that video that.

Speaker 2 (15:18):
Looks like a very First of all, you know, ma
man in that YouTube video looks like it's sort of
a dictator addressing the you know, the sort of the
followers who you know, there's questions, there's concerns about what
execut with this regime is doing, and he's sort of
trying to downplay that. To me, he looks like a
lost leader of a company. And you know, while Street

(15:38):
Journald kind of raised this question, uh, and they're article lastic,
which is that you know, perhaps they need to look
at maybe someone else running this company. I mean those
two things to me, I put those two together, the
failing business, w's business on a downturn, Ratings House shows,
pay per views, this YouTube video. If I'm an investor,
I mean I might be wondering, should is the time

(15:59):
for a change in terms of who's writing this company?

Speaker 3 (16:01):
What do you think, Chris, I don't think there's enough
of a I don't think there's enough of a ground
slow yet the Stop Sights is gonna have to take
a real dip for that to happen. And then you
think about who's an who are the candidates to to
take over and there aren't any And you know you
shouldn't overreact to this. Is that this video, this video,

(16:23):
this YouTube video is meant to rally the WWE universe troops,
the people that that whatever w E says, they believe
it because w says it, and that's their life. And
there's not a lot of those people, but there, but
there are some of those people. And I don't think,
you know, I don't think this is this is any
kind of you know, any kind of evidence of incompetency

(16:44):
or anything, because I just think I think it's the
natural is natural reaction. And it's worked for him sometimes.
I mean it worked. Rallying the troops worked against w CW.
Rallying the troops worked against the federal government. And that
for the people who liked this man, they saw him
as the underdog who fought against who was picked on
by the fellow government for no good reason and fall

(17:05):
back and one and that that kind of that helped
brand the company. And so he's he's talking to the converted.
He's not talking to he's not talking to the people
who buy a stop because they're trying to make money,
or he's not talking to the press. And you know,
if he's talking to the converts, trying to see if
they will you if they'll band together and and you know,

(17:25):
speak up, because if you have a particularly in this
political world, if you have a constituency that that's wowed,
they're gonna get they may get served, whether they have
anything useful to say or not.

Speaker 2 (17:38):
Yeah, a good point.

Speaker 3 (17:39):
You know what, I don't think. I don't think this
is any kind of thing where it's time. I mean,
I know that got written about a couple of weeks ago,
and I was kinds of profit because you gotta have
somebody who understands the wrestling business that could come in
and who's going to be able to fry you know,
the old Charlton Heston line, who's gonna fly ww e
from visus lifeless singers because that's what it's gonna pay

(18:00):
m you know. So I think that's you know, I
think that's that's the long range bests the worst. Yeah. Yeah,
it's just.

Speaker 2 (18:10):
It's interesting to me that it did even come up,
you know, that someone you know, had the audacity to
question that, even raise that question. And there's a Wall
Street's gonna report. So yeah, well we'll see. I mean,
obviously it's nowhere near that level at all, but more
so than ever before probably in you know, sentiment and
public companies. So Uhyahin any other question or follow.

Speaker 8 (18:32):
Up, well, I agree with both of you completely.

Speaker 7 (18:36):
I just it just felt like that videos the mens
Kid was very patronizing to anybody that's watched the show
for more than in two or three years.

Speaker 3 (18:45):
But yeah, you know, getting back to what Wade talks
about all the time. They don't want to.

Speaker 7 (18:55):
Be held accountable for their past actions. And you know,
those questions are always gonna get raised as long as
you keep changing the answers and the questions that are
being asked.

Speaker 3 (19:07):
So that's it.

Speaker 2 (19:10):
Good call, you know, we appreciate that. Good thoughts there.
Let's go. Let's go to another phone call. Let's go
to the seven O three area code. Seven O three.
Welcome to the show. Please tach your name where you're from.

Speaker 9 (19:21):
Hey, y'all, it's Larry from Atlanta.

Speaker 2 (19:24):
Hey, Larry, gonna hear from you today.

Speaker 3 (19:25):
What's up?

Speaker 9 (19:27):
Yeah, And I'm pretty sure you'all are gonna get a
lot more calls about it. But I saw that that
uh speak out for WWE thing or whatever the hell
it's called, and oh god, I'm just so repulsed by it.
I mean, I'm sorry, man, I like watching WWE. That
doesn't mean that I can done all of just the
ridiculous business practices that you know, have have had a

(19:51):
lot of these wrestlers die prematurely and and you know,
don't pay them the money that they deserve to earn.

Speaker 2 (19:58):
And I just can't believe it.

Speaker 9 (20:00):
I mean, and I hate to get political, but it
just seems like it's just more of that intellectually dishonest
stuff that that conservatives generally do, where they tell huge,
huge lies and portray the demonize the other side, when
really the other side would actually like to look out

(20:21):
for the best interests of other people. And I just
think it's a shame that they have to go, oh, well,
we want dumb, ignorant WWE fans to speak out on
these misleading things about WWE, when really that's just that's
absolutely not what's going on. They just want to confuse
the issue.

Speaker 2 (20:39):
Yeah, I think it's more of a mcman thing. You know,
this is something that he has done, I mean, brgus,
you know this more than he's done this twenty five
thirty years is try to kind of shift the focus
of the issue onto oh what was me ull these
people picking on me. I'm just trying to run it
on his business. You know, It's it's classic mc mannon

(21:01):
you know, it's just it's just class suit and man,
I mean, that's what it is more than anything else.
But brus Witch reaction.

Speaker 3 (21:10):
Well, I mean it, you know, it is. It's not
a bad move in certain ways. It just depends on
whether it works or not. But I don't I mean,
it has limitations, it really, I mean, it really has
limitations because you know, you're gonna have people that's saying,
I don't like this, you're messing with my wrestling. You're
not just say you know that, you know, there's the
wrestler should they have taken those drugs and nobody made them,

(21:30):
you know, and not addressing that that somebody enticed you know,
that's you know, somebody is very powerful in Tyson. So
that's you know, you're not gonna have anybody making cases
against a lot of what came out because the cases
are there and they look bad in it, and they
haven't addressed them either.

Speaker 8 (21:48):
They don't know how to, so.

Speaker 3 (21:52):
So that you know, that's how that's where it is.

Speaker 6 (21:56):
You know.

Speaker 3 (21:56):
So it's just it's it's what he does and we'll see.
I mean, it's you know, I think a lot of
irate you know, eight you know, irate eighteen year olds
and John SENA plus isn't gonna isn't gonna make that
much of the difference than less that I rate John
Cena fans eighteen years old from Connecticut, And they thought so, I.

Speaker 2 (22:15):
Don't know though, there's enough of them, man I I was,
I was pretty sure, go ahead.

Speaker 9 (22:21):
Oh yeah, no thanks, James. I would just I would
love to see somebody with a position of influence make
like a stand up two WWE video and try and
you know, disseminate the real information and uh. And like
you said, Bruce, like the way that you speak out
just sort of really clear up the real misinformation on
how things are going on. And you mentioned earlier how

(22:43):
they have WW likes to circle the wagons, and there
was no better example than that when when after the
tragedy with Chris Benjaan, the double murder suicide, and you
just kind of figure if they somehow managed to emerge
relatively un skate from that, I just can't see how
anything beyond that, if it's not at that level, what

(23:04):
would adversely affect WW in the big picture.

Speaker 2 (23:09):
Yeah, And that's why you know they they do these
sorts of things, is because this is how they, like
you said, it's the old uh, the old Chris Berman line.
The Buffalo Bills. Nobody circles the wagons like the Buffalo Bills,
and that's you know, w W.

Speaker 3 (23:23):
That's what they do.

Speaker 2 (23:24):
And anytime someone this comes up, this is what they do,
you know, you know, with position of influence. I mean,
I think that a lot of our coverage has caught on,
especially the Connecticut media, and you know, I wrote a
full newsletter column uh this afternoon kind of rebutting all
of w w's points. They listed a bunch of points

(23:48):
on their website kind of yeah, they didn't really even
address anything. And that's what kind of letter analyzed was
they don't have a defense for a lot of these
criticisms of the product or just their their operationational business practices.
They just don't, especially in the area of independent contractor.
They didn't even try to defend their position. They just said, oh, well,
no one's looked at us before, so we must not

(24:09):
have been doing anything wrong. Well, no, no one was
way paying attention, and so this came to light. So
I mean, to me, it's just it's just it's just
a matter of w W being WWE and uh, and
that's what we're here to analyze it and bring that
perspective on what they're doing, and like Bruce said, you know,
rallying the troops and trying to and as Larry said,

(24:31):
try to shoot the issue. And that's what they're doing. So, uh,
Bruce said, anything else to add on to that before
we move on?

Speaker 3 (24:38):
Let's move on? All right?

Speaker 2 (24:39):
Let's Larry, We appreciate that call. Is always good to
hear from you. Let's go to the five one eight
area code five one eight, Welcome the show. Please say
you name where you're from.

Speaker 3 (24:48):
Hey, it's a David from New York. Ho's we going?

Speaker 6 (24:50):
Good?

Speaker 4 (24:51):
David?

Speaker 3 (24:51):
What do you have for us?

Speaker 4 (24:52):
Say?

Speaker 5 (24:52):
Hey?

Speaker 6 (24:53):
Yeah?

Speaker 10 (24:53):
I was just wondering what Bruce thought about the Eric
Bischoff promo authors and I know I'm a path mocker.
I was pretty appalled by especially when he said the
commet here on he kind of kindness sends you your
you're uh, well, you're any good to be one of
the knockouts something like that, just to be one of
the raflee mm hmmm.

Speaker 2 (25:13):
Yeah, Bruce, what was your act too? Uh? Bischof's promo
and test Munker.

Speaker 3 (25:18):
Just another day. It's another day in c n A.
They don't like women, they don't like hot women. They
don't like women would look like they should be you know,
Colombina polls. They don't like women who are wrestling. They
don't like women who are young. They don't like women
who you know, who look mean, they don't They just
don't like women. And test Hunker is out there to
make Eric Bischoff to married Eric Bischoff, whatever age he's

(25:41):
at now, fifty six or whatever it is, looks like
he's a sexy, cool guy that he can dominate, and
that's that's what they're there for. And they don't make
that much money to do that. So I mean to
to that role. But you know, hey, just I get
the one where it's like hot women who want who
want to who or had to have sex with you
as a character. I kind of get that. I mean

(26:03):
that's a fantasy and all that. I don't particularly like
or get the the he woman hater's closet, But that's
part that's been part of a ruffling for I don't know,
the last twenty years or so, and took me part
of the Vin Russell and Edy Bischoff form of ruffling.

Speaker 2 (26:20):
It's just, you know, it's just it's turned away TV.
You know, I mean, it's like that medicine rain promo
at the uh the balle for Glory pay per view.

Speaker 4 (26:30):
It's just it's just why, I mean, who's script stuff
even thinks.

Speaker 2 (26:33):
About that, you know? And why is it necessary? I mean,
I don't know. It's just it's just I've been a
lost because they've done this for so long and no
one has stepped up and said, you know, why do
we do this? What is this really gonna Is this
really gonna make a difference and shocked value with these
sort of promos. It's just it's distasteful. It's more of

(26:54):
a turnoff than anything that's gonna hands your product now.
It's just it always runs me the wrong and they
keep doing it. So, David, any other follow up on
that or another question.

Speaker 3 (27:05):
No, I was just trying to get.

Speaker 10 (27:06):
Bruce Wilds up to get him to yell yell again
because like he did bast week. But uh, work, guys.

Speaker 2 (27:18):
I think Bruce is are gonna turn to be civil
today and uh and uh, we don't have any No.

Speaker 3 (27:25):
I haven't made any promise. It just depends on how
things go. If I'm appalled by yeah, well we'll see.

Speaker 2 (27:30):
If I don't, I didn't even know what topic could
come up that would instigate something, but we don't people.

Speaker 3 (27:37):
I do want to say for the record though, excuse
me for interrupting, POPO. Do want to take for the
record though, James, that another prominent porch rider confessed to me,
and you know, I would be to be betraying a
trust to say his named Patrick, Patrick m'neil, but confessed
to me that he too greats TNA on a scale.

(27:57):
I just hope that I hope that both of you
have reconsidered that. I suspect there's one more, but it's
gonna take a lot more filibustering for me to get.

Speaker 2 (28:04):
A confession out of him. Well versus that's your perspective, I'm.

Speaker 3 (28:08):
Great on a scale.

Speaker 2 (28:09):
I just evaluated as as I seek that. You know
otherwise this is zero pay per view, but we're not
gonna get into that.

Speaker 3 (28:16):
Uh well, I mean, if that's what you do, if
you if you if you great pay per views on
the same scale on each one, and you don't, you
don't give favor to one because because they'll never get
rid of the creative team and they're so awful that
you just have to give the rests more credit and
more credit on the scale. Then I'm for that. I
just I don't believe that's what you said last week,

(28:37):
But I am for that. That's what I'm trying to
get to.

Speaker 2 (28:40):
All right, let's drop ano phone call. It's just I'm
not gonna get into it againbers. Everybody can go listen
to the audio last week and detape themselves and kill
the class.

Speaker 11 (28:49):
On his update.

Speaker 2 (28:51):
Let's go. Let's go to the nine to one oh
erie code and then nine one oh Welcome to the show.
Please say your name where you're from.

Speaker 12 (28:58):
Yes, I'm just handible how you have to do a
handle on what's going on to that everything's going okay, Yeah,
I understand this.

Speaker 6 (29:04):
I'm gonna get to a w W question because I
know I've been placific TNA question. But I wonder why
did the w W E you know, push on you
know who the Dad Shelton Benjamin to.

Speaker 12 (29:18):
Be the e c W champion over you know, but
little last champion was in ec W.

Speaker 6 (29:27):
Yeah okay, I mean, but you know he got okay,
but which card got better mike skills and better wrestling
ability than Eazikiel Jackson.

Speaker 12 (29:35):
I understand why they're gonna make. You know, Shelter the
ec W champion then, well, I think.

Speaker 2 (29:40):
At that time they thought Ezekiel was gonna be a
big deal on SmackDown when they moved him over there
and then he got injured. That kind of ruined that
but opportunity that they were gonna.

Speaker 3 (29:50):
Have for him.

Speaker 2 (29:52):
Uh as far as Shelton goes Bruce, you know Shelton, Shelton,
he's a decent, pretty good what Russell doesn't have a
lot of personality that just jumps out off the page
at you. You know, what's kind of your take on
where the show it was at that time in ECW
earlier this year and why he just never really got

(30:12):
to that next level.

Speaker 3 (30:15):
Well, I mean, he was a guy they got frustrated
with because, as Jim Ross said, dozens of dozens up
dozens of times, he had a lot of athletic abilities,
but they felt like he never pushed himself for he
seemed like he was content to make the money that
in mid park Russell makes, and also that he may
have been turned off by the times that they pushed

(30:35):
him a little bit and then pulled it back and
then just figured I'll do it. I'll do that, you know,
I'll do enough to get paid and I won't let them,
you know, I won't let him screw up my head,
and I'll just keep going. And I think after years
of that, they decided to invest their time and their
energy and somebody else. He's a real talented guy, and
I think he was just put on ec W because

(30:55):
they didn't really have another place for him. And he
was good enough that he could work with rustles like
Ezekiel Jackson and help them to improve. You know, you
needed someone, as you can see on the NX City
with the women, you need you need somebody in there
that can work with the green talent and and help
help them come along. So I believe that's what happened. Actually,
they just got tired of wedding around for him to

(31:17):
be something and decided to confess their promotional push and
their money and their TV comm and somebody else.

Speaker 2 (31:25):
Yeah, and his Eekiel was that that next opportunity.

Speaker 3 (31:28):
A guy they were trying a groom on EACW with.

Speaker 2 (31:31):
William regal Uh probably was in line for a pretty
decent push on SmackDown, got injured and still injured working
dark matches again. Now getting back a couple of hours
shows tours here as well to get back into the flow.
So it's just coming thing. They just they had Ezekiel
that they had more, uh, they believed they had more

(31:51):
of an opportunity to get something out of him than Shelton,
And like I said, Buryshell was just kind of content,
it seemed at the time, just to just to be
Shelton and do his thing. So that's probably the main
reason why they're animal good call.

Speaker 3 (32:04):
Appreciate that.

Speaker 13 (32:07):
Need an extra dose of positivity in your wrestling podcasts.
Will come join me Alan frel Over in the Progress
Paradise at Peterboo Torch vip as we mask on the
bright side of wrestling and focus on some of the
great matches and shows from around the world, be it
the US, Japan, Europe or Mexico. There's always a place

(32:28):
for wrestlings past in the Paradise too, and we've done
fun historical shows such as the We Love Liger series
celebrating the glorious career of Jusian thunder Lighter and Our
Eye was There when shows where our guests will join
me to talk about a classic bout that they were
in attendance for. We Love Variety and you can expect
lots of it at the Pro Wrest Paradise. Detailed pw

(32:49):
Torch VIP subscription information and a list of all the
VIP benefits is available at pterwrew torch vip info dot com.
And yes, all VIP podcasts are pattible with popular podcast
apps on iPhone and Android devices, or you can stream
them directly from our ad free VIP mobile size. See
you in the paradise.

Speaker 2 (33:13):
Let's go on to another phone call. Let's go to
the seven eight six area code seven eight six. Welcome
to the show. Please stay you name where you're from?
Yea as the going is.

Speaker 10 (33:21):
Johnny Dallas, Texas.

Speaker 2 (33:23):
Hey Johnny, what's going on today?

Speaker 14 (33:25):
Tom much? I wanted to touch on something that Wait
Waite talked about about the long Champion, your rains and
all that.

Speaker 15 (33:32):
I mean, I got a thing that could work out
at the same time.

Speaker 2 (33:35):
But then it'll affects your money to bank.

Speaker 16 (33:37):
What do you do with all those guys in the
bluecates have them order for a year.

Speaker 2 (33:40):
I mean, it can take the way you prtarity for
those guys get titled too.

Speaker 3 (33:44):
You got Randy order Walker, what's just gonna do it?

Speaker 17 (33:47):
Rand?

Speaker 4 (33:47):
The owner kids the title for a year.

Speaker 18 (33:49):
I mean.

Speaker 2 (33:51):
Yeah, I mean, first of all, I think that the
money in the bank having its own pay per view,
I think that's a mistake. I don't think you need
another their money to thank pay per view along with
the money bank Nash WrestleMania. If you just have one
money the Bank winner every year, then you can kind
of avoid that issue. Brus, what's your reaction to if

(34:13):
let's say you have rain you want to hold that
belt for nine, ten, twelve months.

Speaker 4 (34:17):
More than a year.

Speaker 2 (34:18):
What do you do with the money in the bank, guys,
outside of just having them not win it, you know,
not cash in successfully. What's your take on that.

Speaker 3 (34:24):
Versus is what you do? That's what you do instead
of trading around the title, the trading around the title
for everybody to have a bit of it, and nobody
really gets elevated by having that title. You build that
title up, you make it very hard to get. You
build up that champion as somebody who's really tough to beat,
and then you build a program where someone finally beats
from the one that someone finally beats from, that title

(34:46):
will be much inferior. That title will be much more valuable.
To that person, there will be a much bigger deal
than just another guy. You know, everybody who wins money
in the bank wins the title, and so you sacrifice
a little bit of money in the bank to keep
it back. From theory, I don't see them doing that,
but I mean, I think they need some new approaches.
And I'm I'm whip leg Teller when he wrote about that,

(35:08):
and it'd be I don't know, Randy Orton may may
not be the right guy, but whoever it is, if
they decide to do that, they have to stick with
it and really really treat that championship as something very
very special and use it very sparingly so that when
so when it turns up, just the fact that it
turns up, it turns heads and people watch more.

Speaker 2 (35:29):
Brice, do you think is the guy?

Speaker 3 (35:31):
Uh?

Speaker 2 (35:32):
I mean, is it?

Speaker 12 (35:33):
Sina Is?

Speaker 2 (35:34):
Is the way there? I mean, who's the guy that
could put that belt on and and have a lengthy
run where somebody's chasing and there's some sort of quest
for that title?

Speaker 3 (35:43):
You know, I would say Randy Orton, But I think
Randy Orton and he's not a perfect candidate for it,
but I think Randy Orton plays heel. You know, it's
punctually a heel even now, and so you can defend
against both sides and still you know, be credible, you know,
be credible either way. You can play a little bit
of a heel when he's up against the baby face
and a little bit of a babyface when he's up

(36:03):
against the heel, and keep it in the middle. That
what he does is he defends his title and he's
the champion. So I think he's you know, he's not
the greatest, but but of the of the ones that
they have, he's he's one until they have somebody that's new,
that's really that's really really talented that you just stick
right up at the front of people, go who is
this guy? And I can't believe he's got it and

(36:25):
I can't believe he's keeping it. I think that Randy
Wrtton is the one to go with. I'm would again
I look later on that one.

Speaker 2 (36:32):
You're listening to the PW torchs Live cast. This is
PW Torch Assistant editor James Caldwell hosting today with Torch Colin.
It's Bruce Mitchell. We'll be here another twenty eight minutes
live on blogtok radio lead up to ww E.

Speaker 3 (36:46):
RAW and our live coverage of the show at p to.

Speaker 2 (36:48):
B towrs dot com. H Bruce, we'll get some more
phone calls in a second. I wanted to get your
thoughts on this. Both W and TNA ran pretty lengthy
house show tours this weekend.

Speaker 4 (37:00):
UH.

Speaker 2 (37:00):
TNA had four shows the Midwest Raw I'm sorry. W
had a raw house show on Friday and then a
couple of A and B shows on Saturday and Sunday.
And from what we got from reports, neither company.

Speaker 3 (37:13):
Really drew that well in the house shows.

Speaker 2 (37:15):
H W did not have John Tena on tour. They
were in some fairly large markets Denver and Salt Lake City,
UH obviously some some large basketball arenas in those cities.
TNA ran some smaller venues where they were doing about
eight hundred two one thousand right off their you know,
the biggest state review of the year. First, what's your
take on on those house shows situations those tours? Is

(37:38):
that is it an issue for one company and a
different issue for the other company. What do you think
is the issue for just drawing people to the venues
In the last you know, three or four months well, I'd.

Speaker 3 (37:51):
Be clear with you on WWUN, but people go to
house shows to see John sooner and that's where we
go to the city. I mean, he's the one that
draws the crowd, and then the brand pect part that
draws a crowd. So when John Cena's not on tour,
it doesn't do as well the other one that just
you know, as I understand why T and A held
Jeff Hardy off this this weekend's tour because he just

(38:13):
turned the heel and it would be embarrassing when he
went out there and everybody cheered him because they weren't
watching the TV or they didn't care and they just
like him. But I still gonna put him on the
tour because the truth of matter is you're gonna sell
more merchandised and you're gonna you're gonna you're gonna get
more cheers, and people will be more, people be happier,
and and that's what it's about. It's you know, if
you're creative is going against the grain of what fans want,

(38:34):
then that's that's not the fans falls, it's your fault.
So you know, so a few more one hundred bucks
worth a T shirts, that's that's you know, you know,
that's what they're that's what they're worried about because they're
not you know, four months from now that he's not
gonna assuming he's there, he's not gonna be cheered any less.
So being the cool you know, twenty ten version of

(38:56):
Raven isn't gonna get him. He isn't gonna get him
booted either.

Speaker 2 (39:00):
Yeah. I mean they especially with with Hardy and the
same thing with with Rick Flair. You know, it's just
people want to to Rick Flair. You know, they don't there.
I mean there's a classic TNA where people just don't
just not buying into it. You know, they they don't
buy into the feuds, they don't buy into the storylines.
They cheer their favorites. We see it every month on
pay per view. It's just, you know, it's it's it

(39:23):
ain't creative. And you have the uh you know the
TV rating situation. Yeah, good news, you get a one
point four rating. Uh, kind on the back for that,
but look at the quarter hour ratings down every single
quarter hour, you go from a one point five to
three Q one to a one point was a one
point two to three Q eight H at the end
of your show. That's the opposite of what you should

(39:44):
be doing. Uh, and that's that's an indictment and creative
in my view. And we'll see what they do this Thursday.
I'm not anticipating a strong follow up after they kind of,
you know, did the big explanation and the audience said, okay,
well that's cool, and then they do now. So yeah,
let's go to another phone call. Let's go to the
six oh eight area code. Six oh eight.

Speaker 3 (40:05):
Welcome to the show.

Speaker 2 (40:05):
Please stay your name where you're from. Hey, it's Matt
Fanatic from Wisconsin. Hey, Matt, would just jump on your
topic that you emailed me?

Speaker 17 (40:14):
So, yeah, I know.

Speaker 2 (40:15):
Yeah, you're at the CNA show on on Saturday. So
what was your Joe comment on that? Or another question? Well, yeah,
I have a question for Bruce on I was wondering
if he could guess what the main event.

Speaker 19 (40:26):
Was of that show this weekend.

Speaker 2 (40:30):
Yeah, seems to like I read some.

Speaker 8 (40:31):
Reports of that boy.

Speaker 2 (40:35):
Show Saturday. They did it.

Speaker 3 (40:38):
Yeah, I knew they did a ten second Jeff Jarrett
Samoa Joe deal and I know they did. I know you.
The one that wrote through the best match was Beer
Money and Eric young and you know what do Tommy,
I don't know who knows, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (40:54):
Yeah it was Tommy Dreamer and Abyss. That's your main event.

Speaker 3 (40:59):
Okay, yeah, do they load and cry.

Speaker 2 (41:03):
At the end of the match, he was tearing up
a little bit in his TNA ke shirt. I coudn't
get him to take it off.

Speaker 3 (41:11):
Wow, but uh, thank you all the back.

Speaker 2 (41:15):
No, he didn't have he had his TNA T shirt
and even though he got everybody to change e c w.

Speaker 3 (41:21):
Oh okay, it was quite the moment to be their love.

Speaker 2 (41:27):
Oh yeah, it was pretty great. But yeah, like you
guys are just talking about Jeff Hardy, and I mean
the most entertaining part of the show was probably Don
West for an hour beforehand, you know, trying to sell everything,
and he's.

Speaker 3 (41:40):
Going on about, you know, by.

Speaker 2 (41:42):
Your Jeff Hardy wrist bands and get your Jeff Party
T shirt and you'll have a Jeff Party Halloween costume,
and I mean they're going like he's a total baby face,
you know, even though he's not there. And then you
got the uh, you know, Samoa. Joe's probably the biggest
name on the that they brought for the show, and
he shows up and he's probably out there three minute.
I mean, you don't see ww running you know a

(42:04):
John Cena Seamus main event that you know, seen the
squashes on him in ten seconds and then doesn't come
up for the you know, the rest of the show.
And I don't know why TNA thinks that, you know,
they can do the opposite, and you know, Jeff Jerrett
can come out and play the heel and you know,
talk a lot and then get squashed. But I thought,
like I was expected, bunch of us are expecting, oh,

(42:24):
they're going to do a tag match later. But you know,
that was the end of it. And then you know,
Tommy Dreamers music hits and I wanted to run out
of the building, but I figured they paid my money.
I better stay and watch him tear.

Speaker 3 (42:36):
Up there you go.

Speaker 4 (42:40):
Uh, you know, yeah, usually we get.

Speaker 2 (42:41):
Pretty good reviews in house shows. But they didn't really
have a strong lineup this weekend, obviously having not having
mister Anderson and sort of his kind of region his
home region area if you will, that didn't help. He
had a concussion at last Tuesday TV taping, till traded
off and Anderson for Dreamers. You know that that might
work in a couple of cities in the Northeast, but

(43:04):
on a Midwest tour, you know, working with a biss,
you know, that's not exactly a strong main event, and
they don't have that. They didn't have that beer money
versus machine guns paying mash. They didn't. I mean, they
had what was a jay lethal and Doug Williams was
that the exhibsion match Matt Yep, Yep, that was it. Yeah,
that's an okay mash. But obviously that's not gonna set

(43:26):
the world on fire. So, I mean, it was obviously
an off weekend for for TNA as far as attendance
and the lineup, and you know, which isn't good coming
off your biggest, say review of the year. But yeah,
any other any other thoughts on that tour or that
show or any other thoughts in general. Nope, that's it.

(43:46):
You can just have Bruce Telicata picks tn A and
I'll hang up and up, Brus, do you have time
for that?

Speaker 3 (43:56):
We're gonna start screening these calls who were more carefully.

Speaker 2 (44:00):
Now you want to know how to which DNA Bruce
says his two part column for towards VIP members from
a couple of months ago. If you're not a Torch
VP member, p tow Torch dot com slash go VIP
to access the Mitchell Library to read up on Bruce's
columns five years in the making. On that so good

(44:21):
call Matt. We appreciate that. Let's go to the three
four seven area code. Three four seven.

Speaker 3 (44:26):
Welcome to the show.

Speaker 2 (44:26):
Please say jam where you're from?

Speaker 14 (44:29):
A hold on when him? Is Christ from Stanford, Connecticut?

Speaker 2 (44:33):
All right, Chris from Stanford? What's going on today?

Speaker 17 (44:36):
Uh?

Speaker 14 (44:36):
Well, basically I wanted to ask a question about SmackDown
the time splot on Fridays. I'm gonna question, do you
think the sci Fi want the show on Fridays or
is it a because you can't put it on Thursday?
Use the tense competition. I mean, the NBA on TST
is coming back and that's gonna be very popular with
the NAMI, heat makers, Celtics, et cetera. This is the

(44:59):
si I want the show on Fridays.

Speaker 3 (45:02):
Or is it a B decision?

Speaker 2 (45:05):
I think it's a matter of sci Fi wanted to
put their better programming during the week and Friday. You
know the value of SmackDown and the value of the
W brand in general is not as strong as where
it was when SmackDown was on Thursday nights, when they
commanded a lot more viewers. Now that brand is just
in general, it's just not as strong. So I think

(45:28):
w W was just happy to be on I want
to say, any night of the week.

Speaker 3 (45:32):
On Sci Fi.

Speaker 2 (45:33):
But I'm sure they were happy with you know, if
they released we're still in primetime, you know, on you know,
on a halfway decent cable network. But you know, it's
just one of the things where that that bargaining shift
they just don't have it.

Speaker 3 (45:44):
They don't have it anymore.

Speaker 2 (45:45):
And you know, sci Fi has other programming they wanted
to put on Tuesday nights and Thursday nights and uh,
you know they you know, Smackdowns on Fridays and that's
kind of where they're able to be slotted right now.
Bruce whatcher take on, you know, one of those of
Sci Fi have to be decisions or of a joint
decision on where to slot.

Speaker 3 (46:03):
That show during the league. Well, I mean they've been
on Friday night for years now, I mean they've been
up it's been a long time since they're on Thursday night.
So yeah, I imagine both parties wanted to keep the
momentum up for that and not you know, it's gonna
they're gonna lose. They might have often I think they
did a portion of their audience by switching network. So

(46:23):
you don't want to lose another portion of your audience
or or risk losing another portion of your audits by
switching days. It doesn't say a whole lot of the
intelligence and smackdowns viewers, but or some of the snapdowns years,
but I'm sure that was part of it. If you don't,
you don't want to move these shows around, particularly wrestling shows.
Wrestle wrestling shows are the benefit from being you know,

(46:44):
a habit. I think I think there's a lot of
people that watch for all and it's not so good
just because they always watch us yep. And when it
picks the back up they're happier, but they watch it anyway.

Speaker 2 (46:55):
Yeah, I mean, it's habitual viewing. I think we saw
a lot of people kind of dropped their habits this year.
It's not you know, for whatever reason, whether we're the
quality storylines or other stuff coming up this fall season.

Speaker 4 (47:07):
And then that's one of the one of the probably
one of the top.

Speaker 2 (47:10):
Ten stories this year is just the overall raw rating
being down this year, as well as people dropping their habits.
It's just it's not mandatory viewing on Monday nights is
other stuff they watch on the DVR or YouTube. It's just,
you know, it's not habitual as much as it used
to be for a lot of people. I think.

Speaker 1 (47:31):
Thanks for downloading today's show. Take it to the next
level with a VIP membership. Get shows like this The
Way Keller Prosing Podcast, Weight Keller Prosing Post Show, and
the pw Torch daily casts on our pw Torch VIP
podcast feed with ads and plugs removed from the shows
for a streamlined listening experience. And also hear the VIP
exclusive shows that I host with Rich Fan and Todd Martin,

(47:51):
Everything with Rich Fan and The Fix with Todd Martin's
signature VIP series. That you're missing out without a VIP membership,
So go VIP here in twenty twenty two and enjoy
all the benefits, all the bonus content and the ad
free listening experience. Pw torch dot com slash.

Speaker 3 (48:06):
Go v IP.

Speaker 4 (48:10):
Let's go on to the phone call.

Speaker 2 (48:11):
Let's go to the five to five to nine etery
code five five nine. Welcome to the showf we state
you name where you're from. Hey, guys, this is Steve
from California.

Speaker 4 (48:20):
Steve, what's glad to say?

Speaker 2 (48:22):
Hey? I'm not sure if I'm blind, deaf, or dumb,
but the last two Impact shows, I've been really trying
to watch for that major change and I can't figure
it out? And can can you reveal it to us?

Speaker 6 (48:32):
Now?

Speaker 3 (48:34):
I you know, I haven't asked.

Speaker 2 (48:36):
Around Bruce Jeff, I thought, what do you what do
you want?

Speaker 3 (48:40):
I mean, come on, the greatest thought in the history
of the business turned against the company and took it
over and stole it from Xy Carter. And not only that,
took the most popular wrestler in the world and convinced
him to hate the pants, and they took over the
entire company.

Speaker 16 (48:59):
And now they have the power.

Speaker 3 (49:01):
They beat up the Olympic go Ahead and Us and
threw them out to the big departs in the history
of the business, Sting and Kevin Nash, who is instrumental
in the nWo and the bit with the instrumental figure
in the wrestling move of the nineties. They quit some
more with Joe's the Internet fans' favorite got his butt kicked.

(49:22):
Not only that, but Harry Young is now funnier than
than whoever I'm trying to think of, said, and Orlando
George is the most controversial figure in all of Elvis.
What aren't you saying? You just want too much? You're
too greedy. I mean, you couldn't have had a bigger
hot shot show than that.

Speaker 16 (49:42):
And you want more?

Speaker 3 (49:44):
What possibly? What possibly could you want?

Speaker 2 (49:48):
Awesome? Bruce, I can probably James.

Speaker 3 (49:51):
When I do that to somebody else, you think it's
great when I do somebody else, And when I'm having
a discussion with you, all of a sudden, I'm in trouble.

Speaker 2 (49:57):
That's not right him brill Come, that's uh the big change.

Speaker 9 (50:06):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (50:07):
I don't know if they didn't really if they were
able to pull it off. I don't know. You know
something that that I've kind of been thinking about asking
around about, but I don't know the namebody really knows.
I mean Dix started tweeting, you know, stop tweeting about it.

Speaker 4 (50:23):
And it was kind of a that was it?

Speaker 2 (50:26):
That was it? No, No, it was something more production wise.
It's my understanding was that it was something more production
wise on how they're going to present the.

Speaker 3 (50:34):
Show, you know, and I have no idea what it
know what it is now, and I don't know that
does instead of shaking the cameras, start shaking the cameras
from right to left.

Speaker 2 (50:44):
Maybe they'll like up and down, yeah, or left right right?

Speaker 3 (50:48):
Uh?

Speaker 2 (50:49):
Maybe maybe they dropped the overhead camera that makes everyone
so dizzy. I don't know, you know, I was totally
very subtle. It wouldn't be that bad deal. I haven't
noticed anything different. I've watched both episodes front back, so
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (51:02):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (51:02):
I'm gonna I don't have an answer for you, Steve.
Hopefully i'll find out this week and ask around and
see what I can find out. But I mean, Dixie
hasn't tweeted on it and no one has said anything,
so we're trying to find out for you. But any
other thouther question, Yeah, I think everybody was holding it
was the green laser lights, but they're still there, so
no more of it. Are taking it away, but taking

(51:25):
it out, taking it rid of it? Yeah, yeah, yeah,
that's a whole over from the Fox Sports Net days.
That needs to go away.

Speaker 4 (51:32):
Gosh, that was who that was bad.

Speaker 2 (51:34):
Production back then.

Speaker 4 (51:37):
But uh well, about fifteen minutes up in the show.

Speaker 2 (51:39):
Two people want to hold right now. If you want
to jump in the phone lines and the third in
line right now, you can get on the phone line
at six four six excuse me seven two one nine
eight two eight. Reminder Rock coverage at p tw B
Torch dot com coming up in about fifteen minutes. Wall
to wall coverage up tonight's show, including Vince Nickman message

(52:01):
and whatever that entails out of there's YouTube video today
promoting their their little campaign. I came in the name
of it, but their their campaign trying to rally the
troops that we talked about at the top of the show.
Let's go ahead and grab some more phone calls. Let's
go to the four two four area code four two four.
Welcome to the show. We said your name where you're from?

Speaker 16 (52:22):
This is Brian from California.

Speaker 3 (52:24):
Do you say what your name is? Brian?

Speaker 16 (52:26):
Yes, from California.

Speaker 3 (52:28):
Hey, Brian, what's going on today?

Speaker 5 (52:30):
Hi?

Speaker 16 (52:30):
You know I noticed, you know, the dropping pay per
views and wrestling overall. I think it's just a straightaway
from just the brute of what men like, you know,
most men like brutal things. I'm not saying that you
have to be bleeding everywhere, but we'd like to see fights.
You see mma, you see football, there's a big sport.

Speaker 3 (52:47):
It's just the brute.

Speaker 16 (52:47):
And I think in the nineties it wasn't so much
more of storylines that that was a bull period. It
was with men like talking mess and fighting and even wrestling.
Maybe in the set he's an eighties who was wrestling,
but you you saw a fight. Now it's so much
on the storylines and so focused in on certain superstars.
I think as times that went on the baby face

(53:09):
and the he'll think it is just just overrated because
sometimes you see evincing. You see like Randy Orton was
getting kind of cheer for a while before they actually
turned the face, and I think they're gonna mess his
character up, but actually having him come out and smile,
And I think nowadays good is bad and bad is
good and people want to see that that hellish baby face.

(53:30):
So I just want to know your thoughts on the
boot of the sport and men like it more actually
fighting more than the storyline in Randy Orton's character.

Speaker 2 (53:39):
Sure, A good question, Bruce, what's your take.

Speaker 3 (53:42):
Us Russell. Fans have always liked that character, the life
of when it was So Cold Steve Boston, they liked it.
When it was the Crusher, they liked it, you know,
the Loss of One that was Stranger Lewis, they liked it.
The Life that was dirty Dirty Dan Mashane. I mean
they when it was the Duke, one of the riot squad,
boy grubbers, they like it. You know, there's always been

(54:03):
the guy who the guy who talks straight and kicked ass,
and the John Wayne character, and that's they've always liked that.
I think there's something to the fight part, and I
think I think you employe that. You know, the vulgar part.
You know, you can overplay that, but I think there's
something very much something to the fight part. I think
that both national companies did way too much of winking

(54:25):
at the audience and entertaining the audience and writing and
writing lines that are funny instead of writing things and
setting up situations that get real emotion that make you
want to see two guys fight, because there's no you know,
when there's a fight out on the street and people
walking down the street they immediately watch the same thing
on the playground, same thing. You know, same thing at
a sporting event when there's a fight. People don't watch

(54:48):
the game. People watch the fight.

Speaker 2 (54:50):
And that's just that's just the way it is.

Speaker 3 (54:51):
And if you can get if you can get a
resting performer to bring that out in their personality and
get another one to bring it out, then you can
see something. I mean, you know, if you want you
want proof of it. Look what's gonna happen on Saturday night?
Blackweester and became battle Fist, and then there's gonna be
People are gonna be up for that because they know
it's going to be a fight and a good one.

(55:14):
And that's that's what they've lost in this kind of
I wish I was writing movies. I wish I was
writing a sitcom. We should be acting. We're really actors.
Look we're not blah blah blah blah blah. They've kind
of lost that, they've kind of lost that thing. They've
got it right now. In one situation, people want to
see Johnson up punch way there, and they're gonna wait

(55:34):
to see it, and they're gonna, you know, and they
may even pay. They're set up like they may even
pay to speak. So that's I mean, that's what you're
looking for, and that that that probable emotion of Yeah,
in the back of my mind, I know this isn't that.
But when you know, when when Dirty Harry takes that
gun out and tells that, he tells that criminal and
this is going back away, I know that. You know that, God,

(55:56):
you feel lucky. You know it's actors, But boy, everybody
either sits right up. You know, there's even I don't
even know who would be that. There's not a real
good analogy for it modern right now, but I mean,
that's what that's that's what they should be going for,
and they're not. They're going for a lot of different
people for a lot of different reasons. Some of them
are valid. They're going for something else.

Speaker 2 (56:17):
From that, I would I would have to say the
modern day version of that is uh And I mean
rus I don't know if you watch this a Miami,
but I'd say a ratio ratio game. I mean that's like,
I mean, he's a he's that classic baby face who
also you know he holds that gun and and you're
threatened by Miami. He's not the biggest student in the fight,
but you know he's kind of awkward and he kind

(56:39):
of tilts his head and sod and wears some funny sunglasses.
But his character has the Constitution and you know exactly
what he stands.

Speaker 3 (56:45):
For and what he's gonna do. You know, I don't
know David cru in lot of TV Blue. I mean
I thought, you know, he's kind of blue. He's kind
of blew the act. But I mean he was tremendous
on the show. And I hate to say, there's a
lot of TV shows I don't watch regulars that or his,
but I'm sure he's great on that. I mean, you know,
that's what I'm meaning to say. That load talking, I'm
gonna get you. You know that thing where you're just

(57:07):
like here we go and you're not. I guarantee he
doesn't have But he's just the best line every show done.
Oh yes, yeah, that's a that's the character, baby, take
a kick ass character, babysace.

Speaker 4 (57:18):
That's the best character that.

Speaker 3 (57:20):
Exactly and you need yeah, yeah, you need that. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (57:25):
Uh you know, w W has that with Johnson Like
you said, bers, I mean Sina Barrett right now, I
mean that, like you said, that might be their their
money match to build toward is when when Sina is
finally allowed to whatever, whatever the stakes are, well, when
he's finally allowed to get his hands on Barret. And
I think Barrett had such an amazing promo in the
last six draw. I mean just the range of emotion

(57:47):
that he showed us to heel and I thought it
was just one of the better promos that has really
stood out of my mind recently. And what they have
to They've got something good there, and it's gotta lost
in the shuffle because you said.

Speaker 3 (58:00):
So much of it.

Speaker 2 (58:01):
It's just too much on this sort of we want
to be movie.

Speaker 4 (58:03):
Actors, we want to be Hollywood.

Speaker 2 (58:05):
You know, we're kind of stuck in between. We don't
want to be you know, It's like Chris Jericho said
an interview today, I don't I don't want to meet
Rustler guy.

Speaker 4 (58:11):
I want to be more than that, you know.

Speaker 2 (58:14):
And you know that's fine for in a certain extent,
but when it comes to wrestling, you're not gonna make
money that way. So yeah, Barrett seeing of them that
that could be the money match to be building to.
Who knows when you know, WrestleMania, who knows that they
stretched it out that long. But yeah, this is the
same thing with TNA. Their characters just don't have a constitution.
We don't know what they stand for. Samoa Joe is

(58:37):
trying to be that guy.

Speaker 4 (58:38):
He's trying to be that sort of.

Speaker 2 (58:39):
That warrior type figure. But his character's gone through so
many different changes and he's been through so many bad
TV angles that you know, I don't know that many
people really take him seriously as a character on that show.
They've had so much damage to that character. So Brian,
good call, really good topic to bring up. Appreciate that.

Speaker 4 (58:59):
Let's go to two more phone calls. Let's go to
sixty five to.

Speaker 2 (59:02):
One Erie code, sixty five to one. Welcome to the
show if we've teached him. Where you're from, Betty? This
is Mike from Woodburry, Minnesota. A you doing, James great? Mike,
how are you doing to wonderful?

Speaker 20 (59:12):
Glad to hear the show tonight.

Speaker 2 (59:14):
I'm so glad you just talked about that a little bit.

Speaker 20 (59:16):
I was just thinking I would kill I keep this
nexus scene if thing going for the next ten weeks
and then have it culminated by Scena eliminating Barrett in
the Rumbull Rumbles, and then have Nexus somehow get out
there in an eliminate scene.

Speaker 2 (59:31):
I think that's the logical how you could go to it.

Speaker 20 (59:34):
I mean, I think that would that would make them
so much money. But that's an opinion question opinion.

Speaker 12 (59:40):
But let me ask you a.

Speaker 20 (59:42):
Question, and then I have another comment. What do you
think the chances are types and kid getting you havn't
Born kind of flat or he's the underside high flyer.
I think that'd be nice, but they're already kind of
pushing Daniel Bryant, so there's only room for one guy
on the show.

Speaker 6 (59:56):
Like that.

Speaker 2 (59:58):
Good question, Bruce. You know Born kind of take him
out of that slot. Who do you think Phil then, well.

Speaker 3 (01:00:07):
I mean he I mean you can have just about
any young baby face still in that spot. He really didn't,
you know, he really wasn't that big a part of it.
So I mean it's just and then you know, I
think they missed the vote and having some babyfaces. Uh,
be sympathetic to John Cena and tell him we're gonna,
we're gonna work to get you out of this because
you're you're in the face of our company, and instead
they kind of have that hard truth, you know, our

(01:00:28):
truth just kind of mocked him and and you know
sorry for him or laugh at him during that skiff
they did last Monday nine.

Speaker 2 (01:00:37):
Yeah, exactly right. Yeah, I mean Tyson Kidd and d
h Men. I mean, who who knows from week to
week whether they're gonna be split up or back together. Uh,
you know we might get bright hard on tonight's show
and that you know, maybe he mends the the whatever
the rift is between the between the team. Who knows
how that's gonna end up. But I'd like to see

(01:00:57):
Tyson break down as the singles wrestler. He had a
pretty strong match with morson. You know, it was only
three minutes, but I was probably the standout match of
the show last Monday in Raw. I think kids ready
for something. Somebody could really think his teeth into more
than just being you know, kind of hanging around with Smith.
And to tell you so, MIKEE, did you got another

(01:01:18):
question for comments?

Speaker 3 (01:01:20):
Yeah?

Speaker 20 (01:01:20):
I We've talked about it before about bragging rights on
Sunday here in the Twin Cities and lesnis fighting Saturday
night in the Viking Packer Games Sunday night. So a
lot of local people here Money's gonna eat tap. But
I got the email today from the Target center talk
about all the great tickets available for this Sunday's Bragging
Rights show. Went online and checked it out and I

(01:01:41):
refreshed it five different times, and plenty of good seats available,
definitely some three hundred.

Speaker 21 (01:01:47):
Dollars floor seats that are unsold.

Speaker 20 (01:01:49):
And I think the worst out of the five different
times I looked, the worst seats were about the fifteenth row.

Speaker 19 (01:01:56):
On the camera side.

Speaker 20 (01:01:58):
So not only is that by rate on Sunday gonna
be pretty awful, I think, uh, I think that that
pendant is going to be spotted.

Speaker 11 (01:02:05):
So that'll be something to look for.

Speaker 20 (01:02:07):
And thanks a lot of guys for taking my call.

Speaker 2 (01:02:10):
Great Mike, we appreciate that. And yeah, the attendance on
Sunday show, that's gonna be a story in and of itself,
no relation to the actual content of pay per view.
So good report there, Mike, appreciate that on the ground level.
Let's go to our final phone call today from the
seven oh three area code. Seven oh three. Welcome to
the show. Please teach him where you're from.

Speaker 9 (01:02:31):
Hey, it's Larry calling again.

Speaker 2 (01:02:32):
Real quick.

Speaker 9 (01:02:33):
I forgot to mention this when I called at the
top of the hour. But I just want, I just
want to say about Bruce and the TNA pay per view,
With all due respect to you, James and Wade, Pat,
Bruce was totally right about calling that pay per view.
He shouldn't have gotten in any trouble on that because
when he's got a point to make, he's gonna keep

(01:02:53):
hitting the point until he here's what he wants to hear,
and that's the truth, and that he can't grade that
pay per view on a curve. Man, I'm sorry, I
thought on the curve.

Speaker 2 (01:03:03):
Well's value.

Speaker 3 (01:03:04):
You weren't.

Speaker 21 (01:03:05):
You weren't well, I mean, look you you weren't fully,
But I totally get when Bruce is saying.

Speaker 2 (01:03:10):
What Bruce is saying is that, you know, what they're.

Speaker 3 (01:03:12):
Creative is awful.

Speaker 21 (01:03:13):
And even though the Guns and Generation he had a
pretty solid match, probably too many high spots, but that's
just not a good It just wasn't a solid show
and it's not going to give him anywhere good.

Speaker 2 (01:03:25):
Yeah. No, I don't understand where Bruce is coming from too.
And and just to me, that show, in terms of
entering content has to be balanced against the horrible booking.
You know, that's just that's basically where I'm coming from
on that. You know, it's kind of it's a it's
a weighing, it's a balancing act, and uh yeah, to me,
that's what it is. So prucire kind of White's Hilary's

(01:03:47):
song calle die? You have a thought or are you
done talking about it?

Speaker 3 (01:03:51):
Did you think I was playing? Did you think I
was rod change?

Speaker 2 (01:03:55):
Do I think you're right?

Speaker 19 (01:03:56):
No?

Speaker 2 (01:03:56):
I thought we had a good back and forth. I
thought you twisted what I was trying to say. I
didn't think you're rude.

Speaker 3 (01:04:03):
I'd rather think I was ruder than I was twisting
what you were trying to say.

Speaker 2 (01:04:07):
I'm sorry about that.

Speaker 3 (01:04:11):
That was not my intent, but okay, I just want
to I just wanted to make sure. Did you think
I was obnoxious? Uh?

Speaker 2 (01:04:17):
No, no, I don't.

Speaker 3 (01:04:20):
Yeah, I'm an awfully long pause there, just you know,
just check it. So you didn't think I was anous?

Speaker 2 (01:04:27):
No, I didn't think so. I thought that. I thought
that you, Like I said, I thought you you were
missing what I was trying to get across. And that's
kind of added to the debate. But I didn't think
you're noxious. I could, you know, hold my own in
a debate. I took a couple of classes in college
on that stuff. But anyways, all right, Bruce, we're down
in five seconds when I think everyone for listening to us.

Speaker 4 (01:04:48):
On the show today, tune back in on Monday.

Speaker 11 (01:04:51):
I'm sorry.

Speaker 3 (01:04:51):
On Tuesday.

Speaker 18 (01:05:12):
Longing for some nostalgia or maybe you want to learn
some wrestling history, don't miss the Nineties Past Cast Every
Friday on the PW Torch Daily Cast Feed. Alex and
Patrick will transport you thirty years into the past by
taking you through the Torch issue from that very week.
Follow news from the WWF and WCW, and all the

(01:05:32):
happenings from across the wrestling industry in real time as
The Torch reported it thirty years ago. That's the Nineties
Past Cast, every Friday on the PW Torch Daily Cast Feed,
Love Hope Radio.

Speaker 11 (01:05:56):
Welcome to the PW Torch Live Cast. I am Pro
Wrestling Torch newsletter editor and PW Torch dot Com editor
Wade Keller. It's Tuesday, October nineteenth, twenty ten, and I'm
joined today as usual on Tuesdays, by Jason Powell of
Pro Wrestling dot Net. Jason, how's it going today?

Speaker 19 (01:06:14):
It's going, well, I am currently standing up not so
much for WWE, but I am standing up. Does that count?

Speaker 3 (01:06:21):
No?

Speaker 19 (01:06:22):
Oh?

Speaker 11 (01:06:22):
Okay, No, you must post on your Facebook page or
Twitter or put a political sign out for not a
political sign, a non political sign out front going I'm
proud to be a WWE fan. Screw the elitists.

Speaker 19 (01:06:35):
And if you're a longtime employee, then you do a
voluntary stand up for WWE campaign. And if what happens
if you don't volunteer, I wonder what.

Speaker 11 (01:06:45):
I'm not sure, but I'm a little scared. The whole
thing yesterday was weird Vincic Mahn posting a YouTube hostage
video where he explained while a gun was pointed at
his head after he had just been woken up after
four days of sleep deprivation. He was told to make
a statement that would try to inspire WWE fans to

(01:07:06):
speak up for WWE through social media, which I don't.
I mean, do you even know? Seriously, like watching that
video and watching WWE special video feature last.

Speaker 2 (01:07:15):
Night, what are we like?

Speaker 4 (01:07:17):
What?

Speaker 11 (01:07:18):
What are they calling on fans to actually do? Or
is this a thinly veiled attempt to just rally wwefans
and Connecticut to vote for Linda despite those nasty people
who talk about WWE's history.

Speaker 19 (01:07:29):
Well, I absolutely think it's the latter. But I think
you should open up the chatroom to give these people
a chance to stand up for WWE.

Speaker 11 (01:07:37):
And you know, I laid the chatroom, Jason, because I
wanted people have time to finish twittering and facebooking their
they're pro WWE thoughts.

Speaker 19 (01:07:46):
That's fair, Yeah, that is. I just you know, it's
so soon. I don't know what they really hope to
get out of this. I see this backfiring if they
take it too farm And I watched that video today
that they posted with those employees, and as I wrote
on the site, it reminded me of like this goofy
video that they played when I worked at McDonald's for

(01:08:07):
like a month back in my teen years to show us,
you know, how wonderful the world of McDonald's is. And
I'm not saying every employee of WWE is miserable or
anything like that. I'm just saying it. What do they
really think is it's like they're appealing to the lowest
common denominator or some just that fan who needs something
to go see. Look at I told you, WWE is

(01:08:28):
the greatest, and they already have those people. So I
don't know what they hope to get from this other
than they're garnering some publicity for it. But it's almost
mocking publicity from what I've seen.

Speaker 11 (01:08:39):
I think a lot of people look at this and
wonder how does WWE constantly see themselves as a victim it.
I mean, I understand that they're the long history of
wrestling fans in general being mocked, and Linna McMahon has
benefited from this as much as she's been hurt. If
this was any other industry other than pro wrestling with

(01:09:00):
a track record that WWE has when it comes to
addressing worker safety, when it comes to inconsistencies and how
they apply things that they break about that they're doing now,
and how long delayed it was to do it, I
think if it wasn't pro wrestling, it would be taken
more seriously. I just think there's so many mainstream media

(01:09:20):
members print media, TV talk show who just think I
can't investigate, you know, wrestling in my job that's beneath me,
or I don't understand that world, or isn't it fake?
You know, just isn't it fake is enough for a
lot of people to not even talk about it, and
so I don't I think as much as WWE says, oh,
we're the victim of these elitists. Nothing in that video,

(01:09:43):
drawing one hundred thousand people being popular in all these
countries and having John Cena break about how guaranteed no
off season doesn't exactly address the criticism of the company
or the time when Linda McMahon was ahead of it.
So them playing the victim card, I think a lot
of fans look at that and go, did linament Man
just spend you know, close to fifty million dollars on

(01:10:04):
your campaign? And we're supposed to feel bad because a
few media elites have said, you know, bad things about
progress and that. I mean, we've seen this before. I
mean I've seen it for the twenty three years i've
been doing the Torch. I've seen this over and over again,
and I just rolled my eyes. I think it's just
pathetic when people with as much power and money as
the McMahon's and the ability through there, through television and
all the media that they have power over to sit

(01:10:25):
here and play the victim card again, and it's like, oh,
it's also sorry for you and all the nasty things
that are said about you. When people are worried about
their being underwater on their mortgage, or not having a job,
or not having medical insurance, it's just it's just they're
so not in the real world.

Speaker 19 (01:10:40):
They're not and nobody plays the victim quite like Ben Shiman.
I just recall the WCW Nitro era where they were
at risk of losing the company or going under because
WCW had resources that they didn't. Was always to claim
and he was crying planeatory practices, and he just had
to think that all those territory promoters that he raided

(01:11:02):
and used the same exact practices as Ted Turner and
WCW did at the time, had it just been either
rolling their eyes or outright laughing at him for playing
the victim. Then it's what I mean, I again, wad
what really do they hope to get from this? They're
just they're going to be mocked and ridiculed for it.
You called it a hostage video. We have a tendency

(01:11:23):
to talk vikings at the top of this. It brought
back memories of Denny Green when he shot down those
sexual harassment charges in the Bunker.

Speaker 11 (01:11:30):
The bunker video. Yeah, yeah, he's like manly thing.

Speaker 19 (01:11:33):
Missing Missing was like some you know, strange country flag
or not even country, but some political groups flag that
I've never seen before hanging in the background. I mean,
it was totally a hostage video.

Speaker 11 (01:11:45):
What do you think, Jason about about WWE claiming today
that or I'm sorry the line mc man claiming today
that they had nothing to do with that video. I
think it's possible there's some people in the Linic campaign
who would not have approved of it and did not
approve of it. I could see that there was a
level of some of the you know, Republican machinery, people
who work in the Republican machinery who kind of moved
from campaign to campaign going no, don't have you know,

(01:12:07):
it was sort of like what Bill Clint was doing
the Hillary Clinton during the campaign, where Bill would say
things about, you know, how Obama won the same state
that while Jesse Jackson won, In other words, he won
because he's black, and everyone's like in the lid in
the Hillary campaigns like no, no rain him in, get
Bill to stop talking. And I wonder if if there
isn't some truth to that that maybe Vincent Mann just
decided to help with it. Whatever however this affects a campaign,

(01:12:29):
I don't care. I'm mad that all the good that
I've done in the world is being ignored because of
these media elites pointing out these these other things.

Speaker 19 (01:12:38):
Yeah, you know, I it's certainly possible. I mean, I
can't imagine that. I just don't believe Vincin Linder and
communicating call that much these days. I mean, I'm sure
there's some communication about the campaign and whatnot between ww
and the campaign, but uh, it's it's possible. And you know,
I just don't understand what what media coverage their so

(01:13:00):
vent out of shape over it. To me, Yeah, there
have been looks that the media covers I've seen, aside
from you know, some some editorials, but Charlie's gonna get that.
But if you're just looking at straight up news pieces,
they've looked at WWE's real history, and no, they haven't
stopped to point out that they do great charitable work
with Make a Wish Foundation and whatnot. But WWE should

(01:13:22):
know that that's just not how things work. I mean,
it's just they packed them. It's not like for there,
did you know segments they're gonna tell you all the
charitable work they do. They're not gonna stop and tell
you about the Chris ben Wat tragedy. And with the media,
they're not gonna sit there and dedicate page after page
and all the wonderful things WWE has done. Of course,
they're gonna look at some of the negative things. So
I just don't know what media piece, if there's one

(01:13:44):
in particular, or what it is that really spawned this.
And I saw that the page that they set up
where they're like quoting different things that essentially bothered them
and that they're trying to refute or dispute, and it's
it's just petty. It's so it's it really is. It
was just peddy garbage that of course people are going
to bring up the depths in pro wrestling, and of

(01:14:07):
course they're going to bring up the independent contractor status.
To me, it's just they don't really they should have
had better material to work with if they really wanted
to make a case for them, you know, being wronged
by someone in the media.

Speaker 11 (01:14:20):
Yeah, I agree with you hundred percent. I'm sure we'll
get some calls on this, or I suspective we will
want to hit a couple of their quick subjects before
we go to phone calls. Jason, if you are on hold,
we'll get to your calls soon. If you want to
get in line and participate in the show, the number
to call is six four six seven nine two Weight.
That's six four six seven ninety two Wight. Just a warning,
we got seven people on hold, so if you're short

(01:14:42):
on time, you might want to wait a little bit
later into the show before before calling. If you're not
gonna be patient or you've got other things going on, Jason,
your quick thoughts on Raw last night and the Breaking
Rights hype. I can't wait, by the way, to see
Wade Barrett take on John seen on Sunday. But Who's
Who's ready Oort's opponent?

Speaker 19 (01:15:00):
I know that was you know I gave in my
hit list today, I'm for wrestling dont and I gave
Scena and bar to hit. But I made that same point,
where does Randy Orton really fit in? It was like
he was involved in what they were doing, but they
kind of took away some of the intrigue by showing
that they were about to shake hands even before Wade
Barrett stopped them, and that was about the only stuff
on the show I really liked. I thought it was

(01:15:21):
a really disappointing show with just a half assed last
dish effort to create some sense of rivalry between Ron
SmackDown that doesn't exist the other three hundred and sixty
four days out of the year.

Speaker 11 (01:15:33):
Oh I know, I mean this idea that suddenly I
love the contradiction here. And there's many many things about
role they're irritating last night, and that that video that's
pat Us on the back victim card video is just annoyed.
If it wasn't for the context of why it was presented,
it wouldn't have been quite as annoying. But even if
it was just you know, WrestleMania season, Hey, we love

(01:15:54):
you know, WWE does great things, let's show it. Even then,
it's just his too self congratulatory and took people, including
in the building, really out of the mood. But other
things more just storyline wise irritating. They're telling us watch
SmackDown on Fridays, Watch SmackDown on Fridays. But by the way,
raw viewers boo the big show, the babyface and cheer

(01:16:14):
the annoying heel to miss because you're a pro Raw
and anti SmackDown. The contradiction there is astounding. I mean,
why would we support SmackDown, or even for that matter,
support WWE if we're so pro raw and anti SmackDown
because of this mythic coal brand loyalty that people supposedly have,

(01:16:34):
that WW trots up once or twice a year and
makes no sense doing it. If we're so pro raw
that we would cheer the miss and boo the Big Show,
why would we support quote WW the brand because WWE's
half Raw hal SmackDown. Why would we watch SmackDown? And
then you've got Michael Cole telling Teddy Long go back

(01:16:55):
to SmackDown where you belong. The guy who's been co
hosting freaking SmackDown the last couple of weeks. Michael Cole
is on SmackDown, he's sat next to It's like somebody
walking in your house and sitting down at your dinner
table uninvited. And then when you go and knock on
there there, they tell you get out of my house,
go back where you belong. That made no sense, So
anyway I could go on, but yeah, this whole thing

(01:17:16):
about the brand rivalry saying, I just they give us
no reason to like one brand over the other. It's
totally arbitrary. It makes no sense.

Speaker 19 (01:17:23):
Let me give you one more example of just booking stupidity,
which is wasn't it just a few weeks ago we
saw that the anonymous general manager has access to Michael
Coles BlackBerry, Yet when Teddy Long unplugs him, he's just
done for the night.

Speaker 11 (01:17:38):
Yeah, yep, No, that's a good attention to detail. Well,
another big thing Jason too about this, and to me
it's kind of the barried headline of the show is
they announced the biggest match in WWE history after ten
years of a brand split. Roughly, they were going to
have the World Champion against w W Champion and I
couldn't catch When is it this coming WrestleMania, Jason? Or

(01:18:00):
is it headline matches for Bribery series or are they
creating a whole new pay per view to feature the
Raw Champion versus the SmackDown paper Because I missed when
it's happening.

Speaker 19 (01:18:07):
That would be Friday night on SmackDown, that evil brand
that we're not supposed to watch.

Speaker 11 (01:18:12):
No, No, that's impossible because they would just throw a
couple mentions up of a champion versus Champion ro versus
SmackDown match and have it just five days later and
not really have the have Kine or Orton talk about it.
You must be mistaken. I think you saw wrong.

Speaker 19 (01:18:26):
No, you have to pay to see the Champion versus
Champion Intercontinental versus us Champion match on pay per view,
but if you tune in Friday to SmackDown, you actually
get to see the two world champions go head to
head and this monumental matchup that no one will be
talking about.

Speaker 1 (01:18:48):
You don't have to wait for the way Keller Pro
Wrestling post show to find out what I thought of
Monday Night Raw and SmackDown. Each tweek, you can check
out my reports that are updated live throughout Raw and
SmackDown at pw torch dot com. My written report will
tell you what's happening in detail in case you missed
the show, and it will also analyze key segments and
give my random thoughts quips on what I am watching

(01:19:10):
as it airs. So check it out every Monday night
and Tuesday night at pwtorch dot com. That also applies
to WWE pay perviews. I cover those live at pw
torch dot com with a detailed written report with star ratings,
and of course you can find other TV reports from
other contributors to PW Torch, such as nxt roh Impact Wrestling,
and more. Check it out pw torch dot com, your

(01:19:31):
first stop for TV and pay per view written reports.

Speaker 11 (01:19:44):
Yeah, I wrote in my raw report last night, I
just think it's one of the most impatient, ridiculous, jaw dropping,
inefficient hotshots you can imagine. I mean, PNA can just
relax this week because they won't have done the dumbest
thing this week. It's almost impossible. Now it is DNA,
so let's see what happened to Thursday. But it's almost

(01:20:06):
impossible that they'll do something so hot shot stupid as that.
Eric Bischoff, Now, when we criticize him for the Hogan
Goldberg match, which by the way, was maybe one of
the one of the dumbest things of the nineteen nineties,
in counting nineteen ninety eight nineteen ninety nine, that's taking
a lot into account. But announcing Goldberg versus Hogan for
the Georgia Dome when they had already sold tons of
tickets for that event, and they didn't even they announced

(01:20:28):
it on Thursday and the match was on Monday. That
was It's like, seriously, the biggest match you could imagine
at that point in pro wrestling. That was astounding. Now
Bischoff is good at. Bishoff could defend almost anything and
and win over a few people, because that's that's what
he's good at. That's the primary thing he's good at.
Label it whatever you would like, but this isn't that

(01:20:51):
far off.

Speaker 3 (01:20:52):
Now.

Speaker 11 (01:20:52):
I'm not saying Orton Kane alone is like this match
that has people go, WHOA, But that's a fault to WWE,
but the card to but to hold that card that
you can eventually play, which is headline WrestleMania or another
pay per view with the Raw champ against the SmackDown champ.
That is a card that you play, and it means
something only if you don't haven't done it before and

(01:21:13):
defined it down as just commonplace. And now they've done it.
So it's not so much about Orton and Kine. Obviously,
it's about giving away the title versus title things. So
now it's no longer you can no longer say and
I think they might have even done it once before
that I don't remember. Do you remember that they have
and I mean the fact that we don't remember. It's
kind of the point.

Speaker 19 (01:21:32):
Yeah, I speak volumes.

Speaker 3 (01:21:33):
I was just gonna say that.

Speaker 11 (01:21:34):
Yep, so I don't know anyway, we have so many calls, Jase,
I just wanted to get that out there. Let's, uh,
let's go to phone calls. I was gonna talk a
little bit about last weeks IMACT, but since we have
so many callers and we're fourteen minutes of the show already,
let's uh, let's go ahead and start taking calls. And
I'm sure I have a feeling Tea and AMPACT will
be brought up. Let's go to eric Co nine to
three one to begin the show. Things for calling, Polease

(01:21:54):
state your name and where you're from.

Speaker 3 (01:21:56):
Hey the instigency?

Speaker 11 (01:21:58):
Hey, gooday for you me again? What's time your mind?

Speaker 2 (01:22:01):
Well?

Speaker 8 (01:22:02):
I usually don't like to double ask a question back
to back days, but with a but with you on here,
I just wanted to.

Speaker 3 (01:22:12):
Ask.

Speaker 8 (01:22:12):
It seems like the way that RALL was booked last
night is similar to the way that they're kind of
going about this whole campaign that they're doing. They want
to present one thing and get away from something else.
I you know, it just really seems like they're counting

(01:22:35):
on people not remembering stuff. And you know where you
ask who's Wade Barrett's opponent or who's Randy Orton's opponent? Well,
I mean, what are we supposed to stand up for
WWE for if really all those videos are saying is

(01:22:55):
they're a great show and their kids friendly. That's really
all they're saying. So it really makes them look pretty
students for even bringing it up. Yeah, there's not any
real if there's not even any real questions they're bringing up,
and what are they saying?

Speaker 11 (01:23:12):
Well, I mean they don't want they don't want to
talk about the things that are that have inspired them
to promote this video and produce this video. I mean
that's that's the ironic part. They don't even want to
They don't want to defend the truly truly discuss the
pros and cons of any pendent contractor versus employee, Because
the question is why won't you classify them as employees?

(01:23:35):
What makes you classify them as any pendent contractors? Tell
us because if you list the reasons that someone would
be an independent contractor, they they it doesn't fit if
you list someone who's an employee it's not a great
fit either. Wrestlers are quite unique. But just be honest,
tell us why you don't classify them as employees, Like,
just address that, but they don't. That's not going to

(01:23:56):
come up. You know, address why for ten years you
didn't have a comprehensive drug policy.

Speaker 3 (01:24:04):
You don't.

Speaker 11 (01:24:04):
But they don't want address that because it was a
money saving move at a time when they were raking
in huge dividends tons of executives and investors, and the
mcmanon family themselves got rich during a time when they
decided they didn't have a budget for testing wrestlers, and
that was in the years preceding the deaths of Eddie
Garrow and Chris Benoi, among others. I mean that you
can't talk about specifics if you're WWE, so you have

(01:24:26):
to distract from the issue and play the victim card
and get wrestling fans worked up over the fact that
every time somebody says, hey, you know, what are your hobbies?
Or you know, or you wear a T shirt that
has a logo, or someone says, so what are you
doing this weekend? He say You're going to WWE show.
Every wrestling fan has had that moment where they go
to I really want to say this and get into
it because this person doesn't get it, and they're gonna

(01:24:48):
roll their eyes or they're gonna think, I think it's real,
and I'm going to go through that whole stupid stuff again.
They're drawing on that, and every wrestling fans dealt with
that at one time or another, and a lot of
the time, and so they drawn that, but it has
nothing to do that video, had nothing to do with
the criticism that's inspiring them to respond in the first place.
So it is just irollingly bad. I just think for WWE,
it's bad marketing because I think people look at that
and go, Okay, now what happened? Now what happened that

(01:25:11):
I didn't know about. You know, if you're if you're
flying a little under the political radar, I think the
fan is going to sit there and go, what what's
this about? And why why are you taking time away
from my wrestling show to pat yourself on the back. Jason,
any any thoughts for their thoughts on that?

Speaker 19 (01:25:25):
Well, it just seems to me like if anyone brings
up their past content, well they're PG. Now you know
that we've changed, We're PG. If you bring up the steroids, well,
we have a testing policy. Now they're not born again.
No one has absolved them of their sins. And that's
what it seems like they that's how they're approaching this,
like because they've made changes, we should what happened in

(01:25:47):
the past no longer matters. It's all water under the bridge,
and let's look at today and not yesterday.

Speaker 11 (01:25:51):
Yeah, yeah, well, in any any quick closing comments before
I move on.

Speaker 8 (01:25:57):
Oh yeah, appreciate you. You're asking it again. But you know,
for for as much as Vance wants to do this,
woe is me son, He's I mean, the whole WWE
and Linda is really lucky that this has blown.

Speaker 3 (01:26:10):
Up Biggers been it has.

Speaker 11 (01:26:14):
I I agree, I mean I I think it's kind
of like I said earlier in the show, and I
think that the fact that it is pro wrestling has
led some critics to not investigated as much. I've watched
you know, Hardball Chris Matthews and and some issues, some
very serious issues get brought up in the clips that
they show in the debate and they just snicker, you know,
and and they talk about about about the uh, you know,
the poll numbers, but they don't go. Is what Blumenthal said?

Speaker 3 (01:26:37):
True?

Speaker 11 (01:26:38):
You know, did that many wrestlers really die? Is that
a fair number? We got to get part of our
we you know, like I want to hear these talk
shows when they hear that clip, go tomorrow or next week.
We're gonna have some We're gonna do some investigating and
find out is what Blumenthal said? That outrageous number of
how many wrestlers have died? Is that true? And then
and then talk about it instead of just saying, well,
poll numbers are this and uh, Elna McMahon's kind of stuff,

(01:26:59):
you know, like let's do let's do some journalism here
and let's actually look at this. So anyway, Jason, some
breaking news here with the Raw ratings just coming in. Uh,
do do you have a guest? I went on record
yesterday in my vip Keller hotline after Raw predicting somewhere
somewhere in the three point zero to three point one
range that was kind of my guests based on a
couple of blowouts in the big sporting events and the

(01:27:22):
content of the show. How about you?

Speaker 19 (01:27:24):
Yeah, I agree, I would say three point one. They
did a two nine last week the Monday Night football
rating was down but kind of countered with the Yankees
game rating.

Speaker 3 (01:27:34):
I got it.

Speaker 19 (01:27:35):
I've got to be around a three one.

Speaker 11 (01:27:37):
Right, yeah it is. It's three to one. Did you
see that or did you?

Speaker 5 (01:27:41):
No?

Speaker 11 (01:27:41):
I swear, but good good, I trust you well, I
trust you enough to ask right anyway, Yeah, three point
oh nine is the average that I come to when
averaging the first and second hour rating three point oh
six first hour, three point one two second hour, about
four point five million viewers on average, very very much
in line with what I expect. Not great, but not bad.
They break their streets. They that stops another streak of

(01:28:03):
under three point oh ratings, which obviously is is what
they're looking for. So you know, I mean when they're
up against the tough Monday night football game, I think
they're at risk of consistently being under three point h
right now until until they until they figure out how
to move to that next chapter and get people little
bit more excited about the product.

Speaker 19 (01:28:26):
I apologize, I'm actually just trying to get that rating
and up right now on the side.

Speaker 11 (01:28:29):
Oh no, fair enough. So anyway, why don't we go
back to the phone lines. Now that we've got that
piece of news and see who's calling from the two
eight one area code. Please state your name and where
you're from.

Speaker 22 (01:28:41):
Hey, it's Jay out of Houston.

Speaker 5 (01:28:42):
What's up, Jason?

Speaker 12 (01:28:43):
What's up?

Speaker 6 (01:28:44):
Late?

Speaker 11 (01:28:45):
Not too bunch, Jay? Thanks for calling. What's in your mind?

Speaker 15 (01:28:48):
All right?

Speaker 14 (01:28:49):
First?

Speaker 22 (01:28:49):
I got a few comments as far as the or
the mcnance complaining about everyone coming down on them. You know,
they have a very Sean Michael Black attitude. You know, Hey,
I was a joke back then, but I'm born again,
So what on New Bridge?

Speaker 8 (01:29:05):
As far as I dump things.

Speaker 22 (01:29:07):
In the nineteen nineties, you forgot the singer poke of Doom,
you know, after Oberg and then he laid down.

Speaker 3 (01:29:14):
Oh that was terrible.

Speaker 11 (01:29:15):
Well, and it's not like we didn't get another one
of those on Impact on on Thursday. It's one of
the Vintrusso specialties. True, true, I you know what I
was worried. I was worried Jawall was going to end
Impact as a TNA world champion, not the knockouts champion,
but the world champion because you know, as we learned
from as we learned from David Arquette. If you can
get a little little new snippet in USA today that
justifies the death of your promotion.

Speaker 19 (01:29:37):
In furnish to Russo? Was a finger poke a Russo
booking or was that a Nash booking?

Speaker 11 (01:29:43):
Oh, you know what, you're right, thanks for correcting that.
It probably was Nash and Russo just got inspired by
it decided to repeat it. Yeah, good, good, good colle Jason,
I think that was on Nash's watch. I'm pretty sure. Okay, Well, anyway,
go ahead.

Speaker 22 (01:30:00):
I don't understand how Sena and Orton can handshake, could handshake,
because I would never shake the hand of the guy
that you know punted my dad and the skull side note,
why did I have the heels?

Speaker 12 (01:30:11):
Probably in the being of John Cena's dad.

Speaker 6 (01:30:13):
There was amportant that I was crazy about.

Speaker 3 (01:30:18):
No, it is.

Speaker 11 (01:30:19):
It's it's part of the of WWE's creative license to say,
you know, we remember what we want to remember, but
we'll change the details during our certain details if it
suits us. And you know, I mean, I've had people
email me and say, you know what, you know, you
gotta have a little latitude comic books to do that.
TV series occasionally do that. My thinking is, you know,
you want a reward of viewers who pay those attention

(01:30:40):
to what you do and and and I think the
more that what happened in the past is is remembered
and worked into what happens today and how people react,
I think it makes what happens today therefore seem more
important to the future. If if if something that happened,
you know, a year and a half or three years ago,
is just discarded or then what happens today you kind

(01:31:03):
of think, well, maybe this will be discarded and ignored.
Maybe this doesn't matter. You know. Imagine if baseball didn't
keep records, or if they just changed them indiscriminately, or
what if at the Oscars, for the sake of drama,
they made up some streak of how many years it's
been since a woman or a black woman had won
a Best Leading Actress sword and they just made up
the history because it added to the drama. People would

(01:31:25):
take the award show list serious. I mean, you comply
to sports entertainment whatever, you know. I mean, so I
think that you're better off rewarding your viewers for their
attention to detail than ignoring it. And you know, as
John Cena was sitting on our ringside, I wrote this
in my raw report. You know, that mouncers played it up,
that it was so hard for John Cena to sit
there and watch Randy Orton get beat up, And I'm
just thinking, really, I mean, I don't remember Randy Orton

(01:31:47):
repenting for his mistakes. I just remember him two three
weeks ago saying he'd stomp on someone's grandmother, hid stomp
on someone's grandmother for fun, and step over his grandmother
to get to the title. That's not exactly somebody who
is feeling bad for what he did to the McMahon family,
to Stephanie, to John Cena, to his dad, all those people.
I just don't sense. I think, you know, John Cena

(01:32:08):
is probably not his character wouldn't be real sad to
see Randy Orton get beat up. So yeah, it's just
and the announcers don't address that, and I think a
lot of viewers. I think they underestimate how many viewers
watch that and think the same thing that you and
I did, Jason.

Speaker 19 (01:32:24):
And I'd love to think that comes Sunday is Seene
is gonna turn on Barrett and rough him up. But
it's not going to be a full fledged heel turn.
He's gonna explain just that this is a guy who
attacked my father. You think I ever forgot that, But
I just don't have faith in WW to do something
like that.

Speaker 11 (01:32:40):
Yeah, I think so too. Any closing comics, Yeah yeah,
I just want to give.

Speaker 22 (01:32:46):
A good example on a bad example of of paying
a kick to the real detail.

Speaker 11 (01:32:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 22 (01:32:51):
Well, a bad example would be two years ago with
Sean Michael patad do a few with the Tista and
christ Jericho and Sean Batista had that blowoff match and
then they ended up teeing together a little while later.
But there was never any tension. I mean, Fatisa was
sharing them off. They never really had that closure like
a handshake. Nothing but a good example, and I'm allowed to.

Speaker 3 (01:33:13):
Put over Triple h oh the sky has fallen.

Speaker 22 (01:33:18):
They feuded with John Cena even after they stopped futing.
Whenever they team, he would always glare at him. You'd
always let him know like, hey, well I still got
issues that you you beat me, I'm gonna get you.

Speaker 3 (01:33:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 22 (01:33:31):
That was one thing I always and he's the only
person that he was to have enough foresight to okay
fans remember things like this, and that was one thing
he was very good at. And I think that's something
that they could do to help him through their shows.

Speaker 11 (01:33:46):
I'm with the hundred percent.

Speaker 23 (01:33:51):
In twenty twelve, NXT transitioned into the developmental system and
ultimately the brand you see today. On the Torch VIP
pod cast NXT eight years Back, we'll be taking a
weekly look at this page in NXT's early history.

Speaker 17 (01:34:07):
Join Kelly Wells and me Tom Stout from PWT Talks
NXT every Saturday as we go eight years back to
the day to track NXT's rising talents and why they
did or didn't work out exclusively for PW Torch VIP members.

Speaker 11 (01:34:23):
Thanks for the call. We're gonna try to move a
little quicker their call stages because we have so many,
and then if we run out of them, well we'll
let you know. So maybe you can get an if
you normally have trouble getting through our number six four, six, seven, one, nine,
A two eight, Let's go to Calle number three Erico
at eight six five. Thanks for calling. Please state your
name and where you're from.

Speaker 24 (01:34:39):
Hey guys, this is Richard from Tennessee.

Speaker 11 (01:34:41):
Hey Richard, thanks for calling. What's on your mind today?

Speaker 24 (01:34:45):
I was just wondering I read an article about tough
Enough has possibly come back to USA, and I was
a big fan of Tough Enough and disappointed by an
XT thinking it might be the same. But I wondered
back when the SO aired, they had like Al Snow
and he was like the good guy, and they had
Taz and he was like the bad guy. And I

(01:35:06):
think you Morris was like the trainer. And what three
stars would you put in those positions right now?

Speaker 11 (01:35:13):
A good, good question. Yeah, as far as who the
trainers would be, Jason, do you think we'll see some
people from Florida Championhip Wrestling be the stars of the show?

Speaker 19 (01:35:22):
Possibly? I mean that's something they could just grab someone
who's on the main roster and isn't being utilized, like
a William Regal for example. I think he'll be pretty
good in that role. It just depends if they want
to go developmental route with it or if they want
to make it like it was before, where it's just
people off the street.

Speaker 11 (01:35:36):
I think, who if we got down in Florida. Now
we got Tom Pritchard, Steve Kern.

Speaker 19 (01:35:41):
Billy Kidman is down there, Norman Smiley is down there,
and I'm forgetting someone I know.

Speaker 11 (01:35:47):
Yeah, I think so too.

Speaker 19 (01:35:48):
Dusty's down there, doing creative, but I don't think he's
going to be wanting.

Speaker 11 (01:35:52):
To get you know, I could see them putting dusty
on theres, like the guy sitting in the in the
chair who doesn't really do much but tells other trainers
what to do, or something I mean would work. Yeah,
there's some interesting there's some interesting personalities that could get
on there. As for bringing the show back, I mean,
you know, vincemick Mahn promised big things for NXT and

(01:36:12):
did not deliver. But I am curious what they might
do to put a different spin on the show. I mean,
now that it might come back, it is worth putting
some thought and putting some suggestions out there in terms
of how they might do the show differently. I mean,
would they go, would they go somewhat legit and actually
do what The Ultimate Fighter does and rent a house

(01:36:33):
and put everybody in it and film them and really
give us kind of that that inside look. Are they
going to stay away from some of the some of
the drills that were done before or are they going
to you know, like they are now they're putting them
in head gear for a lot of the bump taking
to try to preserve them from getting concussions. I don't know,
it would be an interesting thing. I think they're looking
for something that will draw rating but not be really

(01:36:56):
expensive and add a little bit of AD revenue to
their portfolio, and Tough Enough might be a good format
to do it in, especially with the success of The
Ultimate Fighter.

Speaker 19 (01:37:04):
I know from talking with people who are around for
the first Tough Enough and with the company not necessarily
involved in the production or anything like that, but it
can be expensive, you know, to rent that house and
do that twenty four hour shoot for something else. So
you know, a lot of people just look at reality
television as cheap programming, and I know it's it's very
expensive for UFC to produce The Ultimate Fighter. But if

(01:37:26):
it comes down to content, I say, wwe should go
back and watch season one because I really think they
were onto something there that was a really well done series.
I really enjoyed Tough Enough and NXT is just it's
been an abomination. I mean it's I don't personally get
into it. I get emails on a regular basis, who
do you think is going to win? You know, not
necessarily for this season, because I don't think anyone cares

(01:37:48):
about the DV season, but in the past, and I'm
always just like whoever they want to win, you know,
and that's always going to be in play. But this
is just a scripted reality show what we're seeing now,
and you'll the season. Even going back to Tough Enough
season one, there were certainly elements that were like any
reality show, they really went out of their way to
make Christnawinsky look like a major heel. And you know,

(01:38:10):
he wasn't that bad all the time, according to people
that were in the house and everything, and they just
really selected him. And I get that, but I want
to I really want something that feels as legitimate as
that season one of Tough Enough.

Speaker 2 (01:38:23):
Did I agree?

Speaker 11 (01:38:24):
I wonder if t and A will feel like they
missed out a little bit. And again, you make a
good point in terms of the production expense, especially filming
in a house twenty four seven can get expensive, and
just renting a house that's TV ready with lights and
you know, the good lighting and the you know whatever,
that all can work. But I do wonder if TNA,
having else No and Taz, speaking of those two, if

(01:38:45):
they might you know, if TNA might not think, well,
let's beat him to the punch and let's you know,
it'd be a good time with The Ultimate Fighter because
I don't think USC could object because UFC they didn't
steal the format, but they certainly seemed to be inspired
by it when they created The Ultimate Fighter. Maybe uh,
maybe that would be a better follow up impact than
Reaction has been if they wanted to add an hour

(01:39:05):
of programming, and and besides that, it'd be a good
way to subsidize, assuming that it made a little bit
of money and ad revenue overall, they'd be a good
way to subsidize trying to create some new talent.

Speaker 19 (01:39:15):
I'd like to see TNA try something like that, like
you said, they have else now. I heck, they could
even go out and get Bill DeMott and Hardcore Hawley,
who were also involved in there if if they really
wanted to. I don't necessarily want to see them make
it just a tough enough knockoff completely by using all
those same guys, but if they could brand it as
their own, I think the key is obviously is just
going to be getting Spike TV to sign off on

(01:39:37):
something like that. And I you know, Reaction has done
well for them, you know, compared to what the ratings
they were getting in that slot previously. But I don't
know that Spike TV, based on a couple of weeks
of you know, ratings being up but still sliding throughout
the show, is going to be in a big hurry
to sign off on another TNA produced project, Richard, any other.

Speaker 11 (01:40:01):
Thoughts, not really?

Speaker 24 (01:40:04):
Thanks for taking the calm.

Speaker 11 (01:40:05):
Great thanks, Richard, appreciate you.

Speaker 2 (01:40:06):
Colin.

Speaker 11 (01:40:07):
We're just past the midway point of the show. I
am wad Keller, editor of Progressing Torch and pwd torch
dot Com, joined today as usual on Tuesdays, by Jason
Powell of Pro Wrestling dot Net. Jason, why don't we
take a moment to have you plug your website and
also your membership.

Speaker 19 (01:40:22):
Ops Absolutely right now. There's a couple of news stories
up there with updates on Kevin nash Rhino status with
TNA as well. I've got a big story on what
happened with Paul Hayman and how close they actually came
to striking a deal with how close he came to
striking a deal with tow TNA, a couple of big

(01:40:42):
names that he wanted to add to his staff as well.
Those are all exclusives on the membership side. Right now,
and you can get access to the ad based version
of the site, get the first look at dot net news,
access to members form, and listening to all the dot
net audio that's up there every week, over four hours
of new audio weekly. And you can do so by
knowing over two pro wrestling dot Net. Look for the

(01:41:04):
sign up page. You can't really miss it. It's right
there on the main page and for as little as
five dollars and fifty cents, so you can access all
those features I just told you about, very cool Jason.

Speaker 11 (01:41:14):
One thick note before I go back to calls. Also,
TNA last week drew a big audience for TNA impact,
largest Thursday night audience since January. That was a good news,
and I was expecting a big rating. I mean, I
think everybody would have expected that they would draw bigger rating.
It was a culmination of months and months of storylines
in the first pay per view after Bound for Glory,

(01:41:35):
So it wasn't a surprise that the ratings were up.
But it also wasn't a surprise, unfortunately to me, that
the rating we got the number first total viewership, which
was good news. About an hour later we got the
bad news, which is almost every quarter hour the rating
went down. It started at a one point five to
three and it at a one point two three. They
lost three. They lost three tenths of a rating point

(01:41:57):
out of a one point five out of fifteen. That's
a big percentage dropped throughout the show. Once again, this
stubborn adherence to two different philosophies. One is is self
interest to the people who have Dixie's ear, which is
only stars from the nineties and the two thousands who
have name value can draw, it'll be too scary, you'll
lose your spike deal. If you take a chance on

(01:42:18):
young guys, it'll be a step back, and who knows
to be able to take another one forward. So it
was a focus very much dominated by older names, a
lot of gray hair out there, a lot of references
to how old we are and how long we've been
around in old storylines that I don't think the target demo.
You know, they were in diapers when some of this
stuff was happening literally, So that was one downside. And
the other thing is this idea.

Speaker 4 (01:42:37):
You know.

Speaker 11 (01:42:38):
Russo talked about it many years ago. His dream was
to produce the show where there was no wrestling ring
and basically they could have taken the ropes down on
that show. I mean, I don't think anybody even hit
the ropes for the first hour and fifty minutes of
the show because the couple matches they had were so
short and it took so long to get to them,
and I just think that much talking it was another
failed experiment. I think that was an opportunity to the

(01:43:00):
Thursday after your biggest show of the year, when all
these storylines culminate and you've got a major reset show.
I think that quarter rating is pretty definitive evidence that
they need to really re exam the philosophy that they've
clung to, which is wrestling fans won't watch wrestling, and
they that they want that people want to hear about
backstage drama for control of wrestling promotion, rather than wrestlers

(01:43:23):
who can wrestle talking about wrestling each other for titles
and then going out and fighting for it.

Speaker 19 (01:43:27):
Sadly, I think they're going to point to the fact that, well, look,
the ratings kept going down once the wrestling started, and
I just think they started scaring people away there. Wrestling
that they had on the show was lousy, and that's.

Speaker 11 (01:43:38):
Not true either. I mean, that's just I mean, you
could make a case, but it's the storage they stop them. Well, no, no,
you're right, but I just want to I just be
I mean, please remember your thought, but I want to
jump and say there was no the first wrestling match
was so short it doesn't count, you know what I mean.
So when you look at how long it took for them,
they had five minutes of wrestling total until they got
to the main event. So if I'm numbering right, so

(01:44:01):
I don't think you can look at any ratings drop
and think it would be one thing if they had
two fifteen minute matches or two twenty minute matches, but
they did. They had one super short match in a
five minute match through the bulk of the first hour
and a half or so of the show. So it's
just it's a total BS argument. If they even try to,
if they, even with a straight face, try to say that,
but go ahead. I'm sorry. I couldn't resist jumping out

(01:44:22):
on them, and I.

Speaker 19 (01:44:22):
Agree with you wholeheartedly. I just this is a company
that's filled with people that need to stop lying to themselves,
manipulating ratings numbers and everything else to the way they
want them to be and acknowledge the fact that what
they're doing isn't working, and they won't. They're just going
to point to this fact the overall rating was up
and that's what matters. They're going to ignore the fact

(01:44:43):
that the rating went down as the show went on.
They'll find an excuse for why that happened. They just
don't want to be honest with themselves.

Speaker 11 (01:44:49):
Wig yep.

Speaker 18 (01:44:51):
No.

Speaker 11 (01:44:51):
I'm looking at a report on the website from Daniel
Wilkinfeld last Thursday, just glancing through it. And they had
their first match late in the first hour, which was
about a minute, which was five seconds long, and it
wasn't a match, so you can't talk about that at all.
I mean, they literally didn't touch the ropes. It was
just a fake match. Then you had some Moojo and
Abyss in a two minute match that was I think
in the first hour, and then you had four minutes

(01:45:14):
of a five on one match, you know that or
the six on whatever. I think it was five on one,
the handicap match that lasted about four minutes. You had
about six minutes of wrestling leading up to the main event,
which didn't even begin until basically the two hours were up,
So there's no wrestling that you can point to to
say that it dropped the rating. I think the frequency
of commercial breaks probably had something to do with the

(01:45:35):
pace of the up and down movement, But overall, every
half hour they were turning off tens of thousands of people,
and there was a lot of star power and a
lot of storylines, and I just think it. I mean
I really and if it worked, then I would embrace it.
And I did not enjoy Thursday show from a viewership
standpoint because there's a lot of personalities that I've watched

(01:45:55):
for many, many years, and it was you know, there
was a payoff for a big storyline and it was
interesting to watch. But I'm watching this thinking to myself,
how many people that they're targeting the eighteen to thirty
four demo, how many of them really want to are
really invested in Dixie Carter being betrayed, or how many
of them really care about whatever Jeff Jared is referencing
regarding Kurt Angle that you know, maybe a decent number

(01:46:18):
of their current viewers know it, but you're not going
to grow your audience. You're not going to increase your
audience based on talking about something that you can't even
explain on TV or refusing to explain on TV, you know,
the whole care and Angle thing. So it's just watching
that show and then seeing the car Our ratings is
no surprise, and at some point there's got to be
I just there's got to be a lesson. And the
one thing we always talk about, how you know, Russou

(01:46:40):
and Bishoff and Hogan they need to think differently about
how they approach wrestling, and I just kind of think, well,
not really, because if they think differently, they become obsolete.
I think who has to change is Dixie. Dixie has
to start looking at the numbers and start opening her
mind up to something other than what the people who
have a self interest in pushing this philosophy, which is
the older wrestler who want more contracts, and the executives

(01:47:03):
and the bookers who want to keep putting themselves on
television and feeling like they're alive, and you know, because
they're on television. You know, if Eric Bischoff isn't a
TV character who's integral on, integral to to the week
to week storyline of impact, is he really worth the
money that she's paying him? So Eric of course, is
going to push a philosophy that you know, me Owen.
By the way, my buddy Houlk Cogan, who I don't

(01:47:23):
want to turn on me or knock me out of
a job, he's important too. And same with Sting and saying,
with Jared and saying. I mean, it's just on and
on and on. So it really is going to be
up TODICTI because everybody else, I think they might even
know better that they're just doing the best they can
to make themselves relevant so they can earn another year's
worth of paychecks.

Speaker 19 (01:47:38):
Oh there are a lot of that's the thing. There
are a lot of people in that company that know better.
They just aren't in a position to do anything about
about it, you know, And I really do you know,
I personally, I think Vince Rusho is clueless in a
lot of ways, or just stubborn in a lot of
ways and stuff to his old philosophies. I think Eric
Bischoff and maybe Hull Cogen know better for some of

(01:48:00):
the reasons you said, they're just not willing to make
those changes, and they're gonna try to spin this as
while wrestling. You know, we gave a lot of talk
and wrestling fans, the Internet fans out there, they're gonna
paint us all at the broad brought the usual broad
brush and say that, you know, we don't like talk,
we just want two hours of wrestling. I don't fall

(01:48:22):
into that category at all. I don't mind it a
very talk heavy show. Some of my favorite editions of
raw have been very talk heavy shows. But this wasn't
even good talk heavy. I thought they did a lousy
job of explaining why Jeff Hardy turned heel. They didn't
connect the dots. They tried to with some of the
obvious things, like you know, Hogan and Bischoff are heels

(01:48:43):
and been working on this all along. And I get
that Jeff Jarrett's Matt at Dixie, well that was obvious.
And Abyss was with Hogan and Bishop. I get that,
But a little about Jeff Party, why was he wrestling Abyss?
You know, you couldn't even come up with a try
to come up with an explanation for why they had
so many fights, why they kept brawling on television shows.
You don't even try. You don't even come up to

(01:49:04):
track claim that Jeff Hardy was a late addition to
this or something along those lines. I thought James Caldwell
wrote a very short and a very short blog that
was very good because it all the subject was what
we learned in the first I think hour and fifteen
minutes of the Impact, and it was so short because
we didn't learn anything during that time. We learned the obvious.

Speaker 11 (01:49:27):
YEP. I think part of the problem with the talk
heavy show. The problem isn't necessarily with the talk heavy
show and is it's what are they who's talking and
what are they talking about? Yeah, and we're talking about
Dixie Carr. I mean, this show is all about Dixie Carter.
It's all about the betrayal of Dixie Carter. It's about
it's about, you know, Jeff Jarrett want to get revenge
against Dixie Carter. It's about hokg and Eric Bischoff playing
Dixie Carter. It's about stings, disappointment, Dixie Carter and Kevin

(01:49:49):
Nash trying to tell Dixie you know, and she went listen.
It was all about Dixie. And there are not eighteen
to thirty four year old men out there who are
drawing ratings for Ultimate for Spike TV. That to shame
TNA's ratings, and that key demographic, which is what Spike
cares about. USC is about young young men fighting t
and A is about a woman well into her forties

(01:50:11):
being betrayed by people in their fifties and sixties. It's
just that's what it comes down to. It's a losing formula.
If you have a talk heavy show because you're talking
about world titles, you're talking about title aspirations, you're talking
about a grudge match that's coming up, you're talking about
two contenders who are battling to get noticed. Then you
can have a talk heavy show, but you got to

(01:50:32):
have more wrestling than this too. There's a balance between
the two of them.

Speaker 1 (01:50:34):
So anytime you're watching ww E Raw or SmackDown or
AEW Dynamite in particular, send us an email if you've
got thoughts on the show, or a topic you want
us to address or a question for us. Wade Keller
Podcast at pwtorch dot com, Wadekeller Podcast at peakwtorch dot com.
If there's anything else going on in pro wrestling that

(01:50:55):
you want us to address on our main podcast during
our mailbank segments, that same email applies. Wade Keller Podcast
at pw torch dot com. We invite that interaction. Let
us know what you think of what we're saying, and
let us know what you want us to talk about
and ask us specific questions. Wade Keller Podcast at PW
torch dot com.

Speaker 11 (01:51:15):
Anyway, Jason, we might be uh. We can expand on
this in the after show in about seventeen minutes, but
we should get back to the calls and go to
Eric code three four seven. Thanks for holding. Please state
to your name and where you're from.

Speaker 5 (01:51:27):
Oh.

Speaker 14 (01:51:27):
Hello, my name is Christian Brooklyn, New York.

Speaker 11 (01:51:30):
Hey, Chris good here for me. What's on your mind?

Speaker 14 (01:51:32):
Yes, my question is man Linda. Let's say Linda loses
her election. Do you see her going back to her
to as a CEO and take pressure off big McMahon
It terms of time to do both jobs.

Speaker 11 (01:51:46):
I don't think that Vince is doing both jobs. I mean,
WWE is bigger than the McMahons in certain ways now
from a corporate standpoint, because they answer to Wall Street
and shareholders. They're bringing in very legitimate, educated, experience people
to run the business side of that company. So it's
not like this is a family company and there's you know,
six people sitting around a dining room table, deciding all
aspects of business, and with Linda Gan, Vincent's had to

(01:52:06):
pick up the slack. They have very qualified, you know,
very qualified in the sense of resume and coming from
other industries and working their way up picking up where
Linda left off. So I don't necessarily think Linda will
return to that job. I think this. I would actually
be kind of surprised if she returned to a job,
because they'd have to fire the people who took her place.

Speaker 19 (01:52:26):
And I just don't see it happening because my guess
is that if she loses this and does well enough
that she's encouraged. I don't know their political aspirations end here,
and I don't think she's going to come back to
the job and then decide six months, you know, announce
six months later that she's running for a different office.
I think she stays out of the picture for out
of the WWE picture for a while if she plans
on moving forward with this.

Speaker 11 (01:52:47):
And there's a lot of politicians who go on into
national politics and end up being really frustrated by the
fact that they really don't make much of a difference.
So they're just a number and you vote with the
party if you want to get funding for your reelection,
and if you vote against the party, you won't get
funding for your reelection, and they'll get somebody else in there.
And so you're I mean, being a senator is more
about the title. If linomitt Man's genuinely and I would

(01:53:10):
say differently if she was part of a movement that
really was different than what any other politician in her
position would be saying. But she's just viewing party lines,
total talking point politician, no open press conferences, and well,
you know, one time she talped off the cuff. She
her wording left her position on minimum wage ambiguous. If
she really wants to make a difference, she's a lifelong
Connecticut resident. Run for something local, run for the local

(01:53:33):
city council of her town, run for the state Senate,
where maybe she can actually make a difference. If she's
truly not in this for the fame and the ego
of being a US senator, and she wants to make
a difference, well, you know, maybe learn how government works
by getting into the trenches and making a difference in
the community and which you raised, you know, in which
you raised your kids and your family and your grandkids

(01:53:54):
are living, so yeah, maybe she'll do that. And frankly,
she might have gotten a taste of the national politics
and said this is for me. I don't want to
be a robot sewing spewing forth talking points, which she,
by the way, had good practice in WWE doing. Maybe
she really will say, you know what, I want to
do it on a smaller level, lower profile, and I
just want to make a difference. You know, she doesn't
get talked about on national cable shows. If she does that,

(01:54:16):
she won't get invited to NBC's Meet the Press. But
maybe she'd make a difference. And if that's truly her
altruistic intent, and and she feels this experience running this
campaign and her higher profile can help her get a
smaller quote unquote you know a local win a local election,
then go for it.

Speaker 19 (01:54:31):
Yeah, and I'm sorry, but the Board of Education appointment
that was used as a stepping stone for the US
ended thing doesn't.

Speaker 11 (01:54:37):
No, it doesn't, all right, Chris anything else?

Speaker 14 (01:54:42):
Oh, basically, do you do you ever see Halt called
him attorneys at at any capacity or do you think
that at this point at his age, McMahon probably seems
no valuing him.

Speaker 11 (01:54:52):
Anymore interesting question, Jason, any chance in the next you know,
you know, whether teenage around or not. If he's leaves TNA,
do you think there'd be some circumstance where they would
bring him back for a special appearance or inducting somebody
into the Hall of Fame or that type of thing.

Speaker 19 (01:55:08):
I don't think it ever ends completely, but I think
the odds have probably dipped a little bit against Cogan returning,
if only because he's so broken down, and not not
that they were expecting to get more out of him
in the ring. But I don't know that they want
to trot out an old, broken down wrestler on their
television show. I mean, bred Hard is probably pushing it

(01:55:30):
in Vince McMahon's eyes, and hole Coogan went that back issue.
I mean, you know, hopefully everything works out for him,
but this could be a lifelong deal, and I don't
know that they want to showcase somebody that has those issues.
Am I reading too much into that way?

Speaker 6 (01:55:44):
No?

Speaker 11 (01:55:44):
I don't think so. I don't think so if Hogan,
If Hogan's really old, I mean, like if we're talking
fifteen years from now, I think people would accept, especially
if he was out of the spotlight for us. I
think they'd accept that he was a little broken down. Sure,
but right now, the way he looks, I think it
is it's kind of sad, you know. I mean, he's
sucking it up and he's doing what he can to

(01:56:05):
appear on a big show. I think if it wasn't
Bound for Glory and the culmination of that storyline, he
wouldn't have done what he did on Sunday and Monday
last week. So he toughs it out, but you know,
in the long run, I mean just kind of stepping
back big picture, viscik Man's forgiven, so to speak, forgiving
a lot of people, especially when it helps his business.
And I think if if there's something of value left

(01:56:27):
to Hogan, and I mean he's getting to the age
now where there isn't going to be that nostalgia factor
room among wrestling fans. The nostalgia is going to be
for John Cena in fifteen years, you know, and j
Cogan's going to be what Bruno sa Martino is now,
which is a very aged out audience that has a
recollection of who he was, and you know, but not

(01:56:48):
necessarily someone who's going to draw a rating.

Speaker 3 (01:56:50):
So you know.

Speaker 11 (01:56:51):
I mean, it's just at some point you just have
to accept the fame that you had, in the spotlight
that you had, and then just enjoyed life. And if
you need therapy to get over the idea that your
life is defined based on how many people are talking
about you or whether you're a trending topic on Twitter
or whether you know you're getting phone calls from TMZ.
If that's how you define yourself, go to therapy and
stay up my TV and stop ruining the wrestling industry.

Speaker 5 (01:57:12):
You know.

Speaker 11 (01:57:12):
And that's just not Hogan, that's just anybody who gets
addicted to the spotlight. There's a lot to get out
of this world that isn't that doesn't involve being part
of mainstream media, you know, part of the pop culture rate,
you know, part of a trending in pop culture. So
you know, there just comes a point for someone like
Cocokea and where it's just you know, right off unto
the sunset and do a few units, you know, maybe

(01:57:33):
do a couple of nostalgia conventions or something like that,
but find value in something else that you can do
in life. And you know, because it's fame is fleeting
and it does go away and trying trying to fight
that is just it's a hopeless cause, especially when your
fame is based on physically being you know, this this hulk,
you know, just someday that goes away. Accept it and
get therapy if if you need to to accept it

(01:57:54):
all right, next caller comes from one on one International
or Skype. Please state your name and where you're from. Hello,
can you hear us here on the show?

Speaker 19 (01:58:04):
I thought I heard a click?

Speaker 11 (01:58:05):
Yeah, okay, let's move on to the next call, Eric
code seven h three, Thanks for calling. Please state your
name and where you're from.

Speaker 3 (01:58:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (01:58:13):
Waye Jason and Larry from Atlanta.

Speaker 11 (01:58:15):
Hey, Larry, good hear from you guys. What's in your
mind today?

Speaker 6 (01:58:18):
Hey?

Speaker 9 (01:58:19):
So anyway, I'll just say real quick I mentioned with
with James and Bruce, but I was definitely appalled at
the stand Up for WWE campaign. I thought it was
ridiculous seeing how it kind of played out on raw.
Was even more absurd with what you guys talked about earlier,
which which is that it had nothing to do with
you know, painkiller use or you know, infending contractor status

(01:58:43):
or anything of any real controversy that would affect the wrestlers.
But the unrelated though, the question I want to ask was,
I was kind of thinking about sort of weak times
and in terms of creative and and sort of interest
in the business, because it seems like the wrestler can
go more than the matches are pretty good compared to say,
like eighty squash matches. But what are sometimes that both

(01:59:06):
of you can think of when it's just like if
you weren't doing what you were doing covering the industry,
you'd be like, I don't know if I'd continue watching
it anymore, because I think I had a period from
I think about late nineteen ninety five to maybe about
a month after the nWo started in ninety six where
I just couldn't stand it and actually stop watching.

Speaker 11 (01:59:28):
Jason, I'll start to I'll start with you on that one.
I get asked that semi frequently over the years.

Speaker 19 (01:59:32):
I always point to that what I call the Papa
Shango era, and I legitimately did stop watching way more
wrestling than I had been. It was just was such
a bad time, so cartoonish, and it was they were
going through a transitional period that wasn't very fun to
watch it all.

Speaker 11 (01:59:48):
Yeah, boy, it's so hard to put myself in that place.
I mean, there's so much of my life is invested
in watching this that I think I would keep a
peripheral eye on it almost no matter what. I don't
know that I would completely divorce myself from it. But
had it not been my job, there's a possibility that
I would have, like a lot of people, faded away
during those year stations, and you talk about gotten back

(02:00:09):
into it during the Monday Night War because everyone was
talking about it, you know, it was pretty cool. I
don't know if I would have watched five hours of
Monday Night wrestling every every Monday night, I'm sure I
would have been one of the channel flippers probably. But
then you know the early two thought, the Hide and
Reich era, the Kendl Suzuki era SmackDown that was pretty rough.
There was a down period after w W and out
of business that I think was pretty rough, and WWE

(02:00:31):
was trying to find their footing that that might have
tested my patience too. But you know, I mean, but
during that time, you know, if if you were kind
of plugged in enough to know about ECW or Smoking
Mount Wrestling, I might have gotten those tapes. I think
during lulls in current wrestling being exciting. I'd probably pull
out old AWA tapes and look at you know, look
at some Multipan tapes, and I think in the early
two thousands, you know, there there was kind of there

(02:00:54):
was the emergency ring of honor, and I think that
I probably would have gotten into that. And I think that,
you know, there's enough fault turnatives out there that maybe
during any era, even if WWE wasn't presenting me with
what I wanted to see, I probably would have gotten
my wrestling fix from something else, be it an alternative
product that's current or nostalgia or anything else.

Speaker 6 (02:01:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (02:01:15):
Sure, kind of a follow up question maybe starting around
that area, thinking of like Austin three sixteen. But you know,
we kind of a lot of callers, like Lament that
the product is a little bit stale, and you know,
they kind of wish that WW would kind of go
away from the safe formula where we get these kind

(02:01:36):
of really watered down type shows with celebs and all
that stuff. But what what are some examples that you
can really think of? And I think Austin three sixteen
was a good example of where he his catchphrase went
against sort of that that wholesome, cuddly entertainment value that
ww was going for and really lifted them to a
higher level. Where are some other good examples that y'all

(02:01:58):
can think of. There's somebody you know, maybe ad lived
or did someling off the cuffs and really went against
sort of the common creative thinking at the time and
really made some money with it.

Speaker 11 (02:02:11):
Hmm, good, good, big big picture question, Jason, anything come
to mind.

Speaker 19 (02:02:16):
Not really, I mean, I this isn't what he's asking for.
But maybe I think John Cena rapping on that tour
plus may have changed the course of wrestling to some extent,
but I know that's not what he's looking for.

Speaker 11 (02:02:27):
Yeah, I don't know if there's anything on air that
that changed the course of wrestling where it wasn't you know,
where somebody just kind of went into business for themselves
as they say, I mean Montreal.

Speaker 19 (02:02:36):
But you know that's a completely different story.

Speaker 11 (02:02:38):
Yeah, you know, that's the thing. There isn't anything quite
like Austin three sixty. And you know Austin might have
become a big star if it wasn't for that moment. Also,
you know that it was you know, it took a
little while after that to have the moment, and that
moment might have even been more so Brett Hard and
maybe maybe you know, maybe Brett regardless of the of
the Austin three sixteen initial promo at King of the Ring,
maybe you know, between Brett Hard and the survivorcy that

(02:03:00):
still all would have happened and Austin would have been
the guy kind of less standing, you know, ready to go.

Speaker 3 (02:03:04):
So who knows.

Speaker 11 (02:03:05):
I mean, you know, Paul Hayman introducing Extreme based on it,
you know, a limited number of options and that being
what kind of that that market in the Northeast wanted
and it kind of catching fire through a grassroots level
and then other people kind of picking up on it.
You know, there was some you know, I yeah, I
mean we're talking about it's we're talking about broader things
than that. That one thing that Larry's bringing up is

(02:03:25):
anybody in the chat room has ideas or if you
want to email us other things that you think might
be a good answer that Jason and I aren't coming
up with, feel free to email us. As always, you
can drop us an email at pw toorchlivecast at gmail
dot com. If you're listening to us on iTunes or
on delay at blog talk radio dot com. Thanks everybody. Also,
I don't say this enough, but thanks everybody for your
support and for spreading the word about the show. I

(02:03:47):
think we were up. Our latest episode is up to
number sixty one in iTunes listing of all audio sports podcasts,
and there's a lot of them out there, and of
the top sixty in front of us, I don't know
how many are ESPN, you know, powered podcast probably forty
forty five. I mean, so you know we're we're in
the top twenty give or take of non ESPN podcasts

(02:04:07):
in the entire world and iTunes. So thank you very
much for that and for you continue to support and
keep using social media to spread the word about our show.
Don't underestimate, you know we sitting here and talking about
bwe doing it for maybe the wrong reasons. Keep spreading
the word through social media. Let people know that we're
here and what we do, and if you like what
we do, tell him that through Facebook or Twitter and

(02:04:28):
that type of thing. Take a stand for PW Torch plodcast.
I guess that's what I'm trying to say. All right,
all right, maybe it's a bad week to do that.
A bad show to do that. Let's go to Eric
Cooche four. Oh, thanks for your immense patience. On hold,
please state your name and where you're from.

Speaker 15 (02:04:43):
Hey, take related from Phoenix.

Speaker 11 (02:04:45):
How are you doing good? Thanks? Evan? What's up?

Speaker 15 (02:04:49):
First comment is I'm looking forward to Eric Bischoff's response
to a Pledtheart's little nugget that he threw out there today,
because if he's pissed off at Uaight Keller, then I
don't know how he's gonna not be able to respond
to Red Heart.

Speaker 11 (02:05:03):
Yes, I know, I'll. Yeah, I'm not quite sure at
Eric's motivation for publicly bringing me up. I mean, I
can speculate when, but I haven't heard from HM since
the quarter our ratings came out.

Speaker 15 (02:05:15):
So yeah, I have two questions, and you know you
can answer a writer for your short on time. I
thought last night's Raw represented everything wrong with WWE tied
into a useless pay per view, basic fan's mind being
elsewhere with the campaign they really aside from the from

(02:05:36):
the die hard order of pay per views every month, guy,
they really don't expect me to pay fifty five dollars
for this pay per view?

Speaker 3 (02:05:43):
Do they?

Speaker 15 (02:05:44):
My question is when the year, when the fiscal year
ends or whatever, do they finally think about removing these
brand name parties? What gimmick pay per views? And number
two I read something on Jeff Hardy being great to
make a way guy before Pounds for Glory. My question
was when you have a heel turn or something like

(02:06:05):
this and you have future make a wish people like
lined up for the week, dude is like WWE or
someone canceled that in advance. That way, they don't all
r different.

Speaker 11 (02:06:15):
Thank thanks for question for ell short on time We're
gonna a dress those in the after show. For the
people who are on hold for so long, I just
want to at least give you a chance to ask
a question. Fourth, Ask a question fourth for the after
show two O nine, Please state your name and where
you're from, and a quick question or comment.

Speaker 5 (02:06:26):
Forth ninety seconds two nine Are you there?

Speaker 11 (02:06:33):
All right? Let's think well, let's go to aer code
nine two oh nine two o are you ei there?

Speaker 5 (02:06:39):
Ah?

Speaker 12 (02:06:39):
Yeah, this is David here.

Speaker 2 (02:06:41):
How are you guys doing?

Speaker 11 (02:06:42):
Doing good? Real quick with your question or comming? Sorry
to Russia?

Speaker 2 (02:06:45):
All right?

Speaker 10 (02:06:45):
Well, I was just wondering.

Speaker 25 (02:06:46):
I just think the wrestling industry is so low right now.
It reminds me of the middle of the nineties, before
the boom period and the Monday Night wars, and nothing
seems to just excite fans or make anybody happy. And
I was wondering if they SI still second four a
year instead of having one every other week with the
two companies, do you think more people are to order
the pay per views and out help K and A

(02:07:08):
andjees product one hundred percent?

Speaker 11 (02:07:11):
Yes, but I don't know if it would be enough
extra to justify losing out on the revenue. But I
think we are getting to that point where where it
could be considered. We'll talk more about that Jason in
the VPP after show, But the short answer to question
is yes, and I think they might consider cutting back
super quick. We've got somebody calling us, maybe by Skype.
Please state your name and where you're from.

Speaker 3 (02:07:30):
Hey, it's Jaff in Los Angeles.

Speaker 11 (02:07:32):
Hey, Jeff, literally ten seconds to ask us to a
question or comment for the after show.

Speaker 3 (02:07:37):
Uh Mcgillcutty and Harris.

Speaker 9 (02:07:38):
Was it mistake not to put them in Nexus?

Speaker 3 (02:07:40):
And does that mean it's the death of Nexus coming up?

Speaker 2 (02:07:43):
Cool?

Speaker 11 (02:07:43):
Thanks a lot, Sorry for rushing you, guys. We just
had so many calls and we got carried on with
other things. VFP members Jason Powell, thanks again, it's always
a blast year on the Lovecast, and thanks they're ready
for listening.

Speaker 26 (02:08:01):
I'm Kelly Wells, host of the seven Star podcast, the
new ongoing Torch show covering the world of New Japan
pro wrestling. We'll drop new episodes as major shows and
noteworthy events dictate.

Speaker 3 (02:08:13):
And I'm Chris Lansdowe.

Speaker 26 (02:08:14):
Join us as we cover the ever changing landscape of
New Japan as they navigate an era with no lack
of talent, but I really.

Speaker 2 (02:08:21):
Need to create some news stars.

Speaker 3 (02:08:23):
You can stream the new seven Stop podcasts now from
Pro Wrestling.

Speaker 5 (02:08:26):
Talk Amusing Blog Talk Radios.

Speaker 2 (02:08:52):
Goodbye.

Speaker 11 (02:08:52):
All right, we're in the VIP after portion of the program. Jason,
some good topics to touch on here. We'll just hit
him in reverse. Migil Cuddy and Harris Jeff from LA thought,
you know, they maybe should have been inducted or inducted
or added to nextus. How do you think WW we
handled that last night?

Speaker 19 (02:09:09):
I was not impressed. It was just such a basic match.
Husky Harris really jumps out at me. Michael McGillicutty impressed
me more last night than yes he has in the past.
He didn't seem out of place there, but it was
just such a stripped down, basic match. They didn't really
do anything to make those guys look good. But an
easy way that they can add those guys to Nexus
despite them losing is say that, well, Michael McGillicutty and

(02:09:34):
Husky Harris are not in Nexus. However, Joe Hennig and
Wyndham Bertunda are in Nexus if they want to finally
scrap those awful names.

Speaker 15 (02:09:43):
That they have.

Speaker 11 (02:09:44):
I agree, Mike Michael mcgilli cutty reminds me a little
bit of a of a larger Jamie Noble in the
way that he sold and worked in that match last night.
I think obviously there's some you know, you know, people
are going to compare compare him to Kurt Heading obviously
and Larry the X because of the lineage. But there's
something there. But every time I have to type his name,
I resented. I mean, it's part of my job. Every
time I have to type mcgilli cutting, I'm like, oh

(02:10:05):
my god, what I just I like, I cut it
and paste it in the in the little you know,
in the memory, so I can just hit, you know,
paste in his name so I don't have to keep
typing it. It just makes me sad every time I
type it. But yeah, I think Husky Harris is one
of those diverse body types that WWE would be wise
to push for so many reasons, and part of it
is just I think diversity of body type has always

(02:10:25):
been part of pro wrestling, and you should push people
based on the talent that they have and factors that
they have, and not just rule people out based on
the fact that they don't look like they're in that Shamus,
Drew McIntyre, Dolph Ziggler category or you know, name three others,
miss and Patista and John zena category. And it seems
like that's such a barrier to getting a push in WWE.

(02:10:46):
As for I mean, I think they'd be fine in Nexus,
but they might be fine, you know if they I
think they could have a place outside in Nexus, but
I don't know that way Barrett said they would never
get to join Nexus. They might be able to get
in in another way, whether they change their.

Speaker 2 (02:10:59):
Name or not.

Speaker 19 (02:11:00):
So yeah, and I just think at this point Next
just needs some numbers. They don't look all that impressive
when there's four guys standing around And by the way,
was it just me or did it look so hokey
when they're standing in the locker room and Barrett's standing
in the center and the other guys are just lined
up perfectly behind them and they're just waiting for John C.
And it's like, are we supposed to believe they just

(02:11:21):
stand around like that all the time? And it just
looked so made for TV?

Speaker 11 (02:11:25):
I agree, I mean, I think that's again it's a detail,
but it's an attention to detail that I don't think
is lost on as many viewers as WWE beliefs. You know,
I think people notice that stuff and it just looks, Yeah,
it looks manufactured. It doesn't look natural. Another question was
on wrestling being in a lull. I'm not quite sure.

(02:11:46):
I would say it's in the lull that it was
in the nineties. I mean, yeah, three point one isn't
a great rating for raw, and you know, SmackDown's desperately
trying to get to the two point oh mark, which
is why they're given away that ill advised World champis
this ww Champ match on Friday, which, by the way,
if they would have announced that for three weeks from
now and talked about it for two weeks, you know,
two episodes of SmackDown and two episodes of Raw, that
might have you know, it still would have been a

(02:12:06):
dumb move to make, but at least you would have
gotten something positive out of it. But to just announce
it on Raw half heartedly easily missed by the way,
and then feature it on Friday, I mean, it's just again,
I just I think Vince is so desperate for two
point zero rating and that just instant gratification that he
really mortgages what could have been a two point five

(02:12:26):
rating in three weeks had he really built up to it,
you know.

Speaker 19 (02:12:28):
And I think the fact that Canes in that match hurts.
I agree with everything you're saying there, but there's just yeah,
it's world champion versus world champion, but it's still Randy
Orton versus Kane, and I just don't think people can
really get excited about that matchup.

Speaker 11 (02:12:42):
I agree, and it's and a lot of it is
Caine and a little bit of it is Randy Orton.
Right now, you know, I'm not sure that Randy Orton
can take a strong stand against what Kine is doing
the Undertaker. You know, there's not a history between them
that they can draw from to kind of pull it
out and make it seem relevant suddenly. So yeah, do
you think were anywhere near consideration of cutting back the

(02:13:02):
frequency of the price of pay per views? So it's
almost a weekly theme with us on the show, But
you know, David brought it up, and I think at
some point, you know, they got to think what would
be cost efficient at least for a while to give ourselves,
you know, like you said, maybe at least six seven weeks,
eight weeks to build a pay per views instead of
you know, two three, four weeks.

Speaker 19 (02:13:23):
Well, I think TNA wants to you know, Dixie has
said that in interviews to it basically because you're contractually
obligated to deliver twelve pay per views and I can't
get a straight answer out of anyone in that company
as to how long that contract runs, how long it lasts.
Ww E, they're doing thirteen shows. I wouldn't be surprised
at all if next year they cut down to twelve.
I think they'd be wise to do that, especially when

(02:13:45):
they get to you know, it's they want to do
two pay per views in October and it's a it's
a horrible time to do it, especially with the NFL
season going on, the Baseball playoffs going on. Then you
factor in what UFC is doing, and even T and
A and their biggest show of the year as well.
I mean, it's just not a wise month to try

(02:14:06):
to do two pay per views. And I don't know
when you when a good time is because I don't
know that people want to spend that kind of money
sitting indoors in spring and in summer, and then you
get into winter and it's the holiday season. I just
don't know that there's ever unless business is just booming,
a really good time to try to pull that off.

Speaker 11 (02:14:23):
I think if you've got a hot product, you can succeed.
Anytime when you don't have a hot product, everything you
said can be a killer. I don't think I've ever seen,
and we're not we're not in the middle of summers
for at least not in most parts of the country.
There's some nice weather in some parts of the country still,
but I don't know that I've ever seen the deck
stacks so against a pay per view succeeding. As as
the Stundy's breaking rights. I mean, it's it's an off

(02:14:45):
brand pay per view poor, a poor main event in
the sense that they didn't even put that much heat
between Barrett and Orton's and that's your major selling point.
I mean, maybe SmackDown will will increase my optimism a
little bit. But you know, they're working with you know,
thirty five percent fewer viewers than Raw has. But you know,
maybe Buried Alive undertaker Caine will try in a certain
demographic that maybe is intrigued by that and into the storyline.

(02:15:06):
But you know, I mean Tyler Rex, Santino Morella, I mean, really,
what kind of breaking rights are at stake when it's
when it's the lineup is just a missmash mix of
talent with no rhyme or reason for how they were selected.
So not only as a lineup week, but it's against
Randy Moss and the Vikings against x Randy Moss or
I'm sorry, Green Green Bay Packers and Brett Farzol team.
Am I right on that? Jason? Oh yeah, yeah, I

(02:15:29):
figured you might know that.

Speaker 19 (02:15:31):
Yeah, I'm looking forward to that game just a little bit.

Speaker 11 (02:15:34):
Yeah, And and not only that, but it comes twenty
four hours after brock lesnar right and the you know, and.

Speaker 19 (02:15:40):
I haven't even looked to see what the schedule is,
but I assume there's going to be a baseball game
that night too, And you know, for all I know,
it's it's the Yankees, who you know, they didn't do.
I posted the numbers today that the NFL, the lousy
NFL Monday Night mashup, actually outdrew the Yankees and Texas
series last night. And the NFL or the baseball game

(02:16:01):
was actually a lot closer for the majority of their
game compared to the NFL game. But it's you know,
all those things add up, and I mean even locally
here in Minnesota, they're reaching out and trying to get
rid of these tickets by you know, holding a Target
Center birthday sale twenty dollars tickets because it's Target Center's birthday.

(02:16:22):
I guess it doesn't have anything to do with the
fact that, wow, we're not selling any tickets and we
have to somehow make this building look full because everyone
wants to stay home and watch the vikings that night.

Speaker 11 (02:16:31):
Would they announced breaker and I should know this, it's
you know, ten minutes from my house. But when they
announced breaking rights. Had the schedule come out yet for
the Vike's Packers.

Speaker 5 (02:16:38):
No.

Speaker 7 (02:16:39):
No.

Speaker 19 (02:16:39):
In fact, the day I remember when they announced bragging rights,
I pointed that out right away because I was curious
just to see what they'd be going against, and they
had some bad luck with their with their pay per
views going against really strong NFL games. I mean, this
one pretty much takes the cake where TNA bound for glory.
I don't remember the game, but it wasn't just a
lights out matchup, So I don't think. I don't think

(02:17:01):
there's too many people out there in the United States
or North America that want to see the NFL have
a lockout next season. A few people in WWP among those.

Speaker 11 (02:17:09):
Few that you know, we talk about what could bring
a resurgence back to raw. When's the last time WWE
got to be on Monday nights in the fall, when
people return to their TV sets and get into the
routine of what am I going to watch now that
I'm not out and about in the good weather and
school at school year starts. When was the last time
wweek got Monday nights? Was out competition for that key

(02:17:31):
mail demo? And if there's a lockout, that could be
a time. I mean, if it looks likely there's a lockout,
WWE should really build up to that that September, October
November stretch and really try to make that a really
special time. And this would be a big challenge for them,
but do something that really appears different to fans who
may have strayed from the product and attract people looking for,

(02:17:53):
you know, hard hitting action and larger than life personalities,
and present a product mainly for people who go, is
there something new going on here? That's what was so
exciting about Nitro is it made pro wrestling seem new again.
It was a new spin on things and you know,
maybe take some chances, and you know, it's not in
VisiC Man and Stephan McMahon and Kevin Dunns and Brian
Ewertz's nature to say let's really shake things up, but

(02:18:14):
I think it'd be a really intriguing time to do it.
And that's a long ways off, and a lot can
happen obviously between now and then. They may have to
make some major changes before next September, but that would
be a time where they could say, hey, it's an
all new season and an all new WWE. Check us out,
and I who knows what Raigs would be like in
September and October if they weren't against Monday Night football.

Speaker 19 (02:18:32):
I agree, And you know, I even think that every
year when they're going against football, why aren't you doing
more to try to hook your viewers before that first
Monday night football game? They almost just concede. Now, they
don't do any big storyline, you know, a big cliffhangar
or anything like that. It's just business as usual that
last week or Labor Day week and the last all
of August and then September rolls around and they might

(02:18:53):
advertise a few extra matches for that show, but they're
not going to give you clean finishes as we saw
this year. It's just, you know, they're throughout the big
names and act like they're trying, but it almost it
really does creatively feel like, well, it's it's football season.
We don't want to give away our best stuff, now,
I know.

Speaker 3 (02:19:10):
I know. Yep.

Speaker 11 (02:19:11):
Well, let me see if there's any other questions we
didn't touch on here. Eric Bischoff might respond to bred oh,
gimmick pay per views. Speaking of of Gimmick pay per
views or the pay perview schedule, what about WWE really
shaken up, not the frequency of pay per views, but
the whole idea of themes and names, and one of
the things that I've you know, Bruce Mitchelich, I think

(02:19:32):
started with this. And speaking of Bruck Lesner in UFC,
you know, UFC doesn't give names to pay per views,
I don't think anymore. Maybe they do, but I think
they've moved away from from top, you know, naming pay
per views with a clever little title, you know, Pride
on the Line or you know whatever, and now it's
it's Brock versus Kane. You know, it's Lessner versus of
Alaska's that's what they name it. After the match. It

(02:19:54):
would change the way WWE books. But if they tried
to book around a singular main event match while also
promising you, hopefully two and a half hours of pretty compelling,
meaningful matches and exciting matches leading up to it. In
a more generic sense, why not rename pay per views
WWE Sina versus Barrett and see if if that's that's
focused on two people facing off would draw better than

(02:20:17):
trying to sell a generic concept like elimination chamber or
breaking rights.

Speaker 19 (02:20:21):
You know what I think it is is that they
repeat main events so frequently. It's that I think they
would require them to change that. And I mean, there's
no reason that I couldn't. Well, there's no reason they
couldn't go see versus Barrett this month and Kane versus
Taker next month and try to rotate that a little bit.
But I just did they're so stuck in this patterns.

Speaker 11 (02:20:41):
What if what if they actually did Sena versus Orton too,
Sena versus Orton three, but they could add a subtitle
Sena versus Orton three The Final Battle or Cena versus
Orton to the the rematch and and actually as much
if they can with a straight space sell the idea
that it's a rematch in a positive way, then sell.
But if they figure, how do we sell this in

(02:21:01):
a positive way, maybe that's actually a good technique to
discipline them not to repeat matches, you know. And that's
where I think that That's why I kind of prefaced
it and I didn't expand on it. This would actually
change the way they book in the sense that if
they did name pay per views after their main event,
they might actually force themselves into looking two three months
ahead at what are we going to name that pay
per view and book towards a unique match that maybe

(02:21:23):
on its own would draw because they get pretty lazy
when it comes to how long they try to stretch
out these feuds between two guys.

Speaker 19 (02:21:29):
I'd love to see him do it, but I think
if there's any hint that they might actually take this approach,
we should right now. Copyright Scena versus Ordon seventeen. Not overkill,
just in kill.

Speaker 11 (02:21:42):
That would be awesome. It's just you know, kill us
with honesty. Yeah, Scena versus or overkiller. You know's what's
another Kane versus Undertaker not really buried alive? Right, Scena
versus Undertaker a gimmick for kids? I don't know. Well here, yeah,

(02:22:03):
we'd have fun with that. Actually, that would be a
fun internet thing. Rename their pay per.

Speaker 19 (02:22:06):
View, right, But you know, as far as abandoning the
gimmick pay per views, I still think we need to
see what some of these pay per views later in
the year too. I don't expect them to be strong,
but remember last year at this time they had a
pretty they had some success with Helena cell and with
some of those first run gimmick pay per views. I
don't think it's something that's going to work for him

(02:22:27):
over time, especially because they haven't done a good job
of protecting some of their gimmicks like helen a cell.
But they did get increases at this time last year,
as you know, shocking as that might seem this year
with the lack of interest in some of those events.

Speaker 11 (02:22:42):
Yeah, okay, yeah, fair enough. Final point for the after
show here. As far as color questions, make a wish,
would you imagine a charity canceling and appearance of a
wrestler based on He'll turn like with Jeff Hardy, I don't.

Speaker 19 (02:22:56):
Think so, because it's such a private thing that I
think someone like Jeff Hardy is going to be able
to sit down with that kid and you know, let
him know what the wink that he's still a good guy.
And I mean, maybe I can't see make a wish
doing it. Maybe wwe would throughout the idea that hey,
you know, we just did this, do you want to
go with somebody else? But I just again, I just

(02:23:18):
think it's such a private thing.

Speaker 3 (02:23:20):
It's not you know.

Speaker 19 (02:23:21):
I mean, they do bring cameras in there for their
commercials or video packages and whatever from time to time,
but more often than not it's just a one on
one event. Maybe the family's there and something like that.

Speaker 11 (02:23:31):
Yeah, yeah, I don't. It'd be tough to cancel a celebrity,
and I think people don't take wrestling seriously enough to
I mean maybe kids do, so, you know, maybe if
it would be hard to imagine the kid watching Jeff
Harty sit here, I say, screw you fans, and then
have Jeff Harty walking in the hospital and not imagine
that the kid might start crying, you know, so you
almost I could imagine a restler does a lot of
charity work having to consider that, and I think some

(02:23:52):
wrestlers over the years half you know, consider that. I
think Goldberg, I know, Goldberg talked a lot about that
when he was hesitant to turn heel and he just,
you know, oh me. He made a big deal out
of the fact that, no, I do too much charity work,
and those kids take me seriously in what I say,
and I'm a role model and I don't want to
mess with that.

Speaker 19 (02:24:08):
I would have had so much more respect for Brett
hart in the Home Montreal thing if that had been
his excuse rather than he's a hero in Canada.

Speaker 11 (02:24:16):
Yeah, yeah, really.

Speaker 1 (02:24:19):
We're about to go to a commercial break. Why listened
to commercial breaks when you can go VIP and experience
our shows with the ads and plugs removed. Pw torch
dot com slash go VIP. That's pw torch dot com
slash go vip for full details, or go to Patreon,
Patreon dot com slash pw Torch. VIP rate start as
low as four dollars in ninety nine cents to remove

(02:24:39):
the ads and plugs through Patreon. Full VIP membership starts
at nine dollars in ninety nine cents. Treat yourself to
a streamlined, ad and plug free listening experience with a
VIP or Patreon membership.

Speaker 11 (02:24:52):
Well, Jason, any anything else that you think we need
to cover here, otherwise we can wrap up the after
show well.

Speaker 19 (02:24:59):
As far as Shof and Brett hart go, I think
that I don't think you might see a subtle jab
at Brett on impact as a caller imply, but I
think it's more likely to be some sort of a
Facebook blog or some kind of cheap shot on Facebook
or Twitter at Brett.

Speaker 3 (02:25:14):
I got.

Speaker 19 (02:25:15):
You know, someone on Twitter today was sending me non
Scott messages, you know, just saying how petty it is
of Brett, And my response was simple, you know, tell him,
not me, don't shoot the messenger. But I mean it
is petty, but Brett is prone to that. Brett has
had some petty feuds. And the thing that this person
really took exception to is the fact that he's calling

(02:25:36):
Hogan a dinosaur and complaining about Hogan and Bischoff occupying
so much TNA television time and here Brett is on
WWE television, and it's that's not fair because Brett isn't
the dominant character on WWE television. Heck, if anything, I'm
frustrated that ww lee chose not to show his homecoming
in Calgary last night, because I think they deprived themselves

(02:25:57):
of a pretty good television moment. But you know, instead
they went the dark route with that, And I know
it doesn't play into bragging rights, but there was still
a way you could have captured that and you know,
and fit him into the show and made it mean something.
And you know, I threw out the idea maybe he
actually sits down and talks to John Cena after he
makes his appearance somehow in the ring. Whatever, you know,

(02:26:18):
they work him in backstage talking to Sena about the
situation with Nexus or something along those lines. Right, So,
I just think it's comparing apples to oranges. And I
hate to say it, but I'm guessing Vishaff will take
that same approach and go, what about you, Brett at
you know, fifty years of age, You're on WWE television
and Wressell Manny and Mash with Vince McMahon, and you
know it, it's again, it's just apples and oranges.

Speaker 11 (02:26:42):
Yeah, it's apples and oranges. But Brett, certainly, especially in
a Twitter environment or the sound bite environment, leaves himself
open to the nuances not being considered or somebody disregarding
the nuances and saying you know, I mean, Brett, you
came back to WWE because you wanted the spotlight. You
said you missed it, you missed the roar of the crowd,
and you wanted some money and you're having fun. Well,
Hogan missed the spotlight. You know, wants to be out

(02:27:04):
there in front of fans and and wants to make
some money. You know, where do you draw the line
on how much you do the biggest difference is Hogan
is pulling the strings he's the one who's kind of
pulling the strings. He's he's running things to a certain
extent behind the scenes. And yes, as soon as Brett
Hard appears on TV as much as as much as
Hulk Hogan has, you know, then Brett's gonna have look

(02:27:27):
worse than Brett would look worse if he was on
TV as much as Hogan, and he hasn't been, but
there are you know, it's somewhat nuanced in the sense
that you know, Brett came back for some reasons that
had to do with him missing the spotlight and wanting money.
And I don't know, I just think that's the kind
of comment that Brunoso Martino might be can can make
in a much more safer environment, even if it is
in many ways Apple's to oranges.

Speaker 19 (02:27:50):
What is some Vince pickt Man's obsession with dance numbers
on WWE. Wes saw it again with Daniel Bryant last night.
He seems like I see these once a month omas
which somebody just breaks of dancing for no damn reason.
It's just so silly.

Speaker 11 (02:28:03):
I wasn't sure what that was all about. I mean,
I think it has to do with when we see
when we see stuff like that. I sometimes just think
it has to be inspired by something that happened outside
of the ring, you know, and it's one of those
things we're kind of asking about, like somebody had to
come up with the idea to have Daniel Brian surrounded
by women, have Michael Cole talk about him being a virgin,
and you know, have Michael and Daniel Brian, you know,

(02:28:25):
scripted to say he's not much of a ladies man,
and then have him break out into this dance that
I just I mean, I don't know. I'm just trying
to imagine like George Saint Pierre doing that and if
if it would you know, ruin his reputation, or if
it's just kind of seen as Daniel Brian doesn't have
an ego when he's a happy, go lucky guy and
you know, maybe he's not as uptight as people say,

(02:28:45):
even though he's a vegan.

Speaker 19 (02:28:47):
I just think they're really learning to drop the ball
on Daniel Brian here by making him just another WWE
performer who go out there and dance. I mean, the
vision I would have for Daniel Brian is similar to
Simone a Shoe in that he's kind of a no
nonsense guy. Not the same I'm gonna rip your head
off kind of a guy, but in no nonsense character
that is Mma like and that he takes it seriously

(02:29:09):
and he saft spoken, goes out there and does this
thing and taps people out, and I mean that can
work more than Oh, we've got to put the Sports
Entertainment Seal will approval on him by having him do
a dance number with the divas. Yeah and Gail Kim Wow.
I mean her career has gone from she was able
to have great, you know, some of the best matches

(02:29:31):
on television on impact, and now she has one job
and that's to throw a bucket of confetti and Vicky Guerrero.

Speaker 2 (02:29:38):
She can't even do that.

Speaker 19 (02:29:38):
It slips out of her hands.

Speaker 11 (02:29:40):
That was really embarrassing. I mean, I was it Eve
who saved the day by picking up the bucket and
doing it again. I mean, how do you not know
to hold on to the bucket? I mean, has she
never seen a clown before? Has he never seen did
he not watch the slop matches with the Godwin brother
the Godwin family? I don't know one quick thing on

(02:30:01):
Daniel Brian Jason. Yeah, last night he said, if I
can be serious for a moment, Do you think that
was a little you know, uh tribute so to speak
to the great land Storm angle where they you know,
they played a joke on him because he was always
so serious and uptight that they had him say, let
me be serious for a moment.

Speaker 2 (02:30:18):
Oh.

Speaker 19 (02:30:18):
Absolutely, yeah, storm was actually backstage last night the show
was in Calgary. Yeah, that was definitely a landstorm.

Speaker 11 (02:30:24):
Yeah, a tribute to not it wasn't exactly an angle
that got land Storm over, but nevertheless attribute to him. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
but to just I want to remember.

Speaker 3 (02:30:33):
To say that.

Speaker 11 (02:30:34):
But yeah, the Gail Kim saying Eve gets ef should
get a bonus for saving that segment, and oh such
as it was saveable and and Gail Kim should frankly
never hear the end of that.

Speaker 19 (02:30:45):
Well and by the way, wwe why would Vicky run
in horror from being hit with consetti?

Speaker 2 (02:30:52):
Wow?

Speaker 19 (02:30:52):
How humiliating. I feel so bad for Vicky.

Speaker 11 (02:30:55):
I know, good point, good point. Maybe she ran in
horror because the segment was so bad and it was
live television.

Speaker 19 (02:31:01):
Oh, I wanted to turn my I wanted to turn
the channel so badly.

Speaker 11 (02:31:04):
At the well, speaking of turn in the channel. We'll uh,
we'll end our show on this channel for now.

Speaker 19 (02:31:11):
Okay.

Speaker 11 (02:31:11):
We started off it's very serious stuff and ended with
confetti and buckets.

Speaker 2 (02:31:15):
The slop.

Speaker 19 (02:31:16):
Well, the nice thing is Wade. No matter what happens
now in wrestling, it's it's packer biking week, so we
have something to look forward to.

Speaker 11 (02:31:22):
Absolutely, we got two of them to look forward to.
But this is this is a big one. I still
I'm still just amazed that Randy Moss is a Viking
and Brett farbsts passing to him. It's it's pretty crazy,
it is.

Speaker 19 (02:31:32):
Is it too early to get your prediction for Bronck
and Kane?

Speaker 5 (02:31:36):
Oh?

Speaker 11 (02:31:36):
I think, man, it's so. I think we're gonna learn
a lot about both fighters. I think, you know. My
initial thought, I really do want to do more reading
on it. Not that I haven't read a lot, but
I really want to. My unofficial prediction is I think
this could be the longest fight that Brocus had, and
it might even I don't.

Speaker 24 (02:31:55):
I can't.

Speaker 11 (02:31:55):
It's hard to imagine broncoing five rounds, but it's possible
that I don't know. No, I'm not ready to make
a prediction. I'm going back and forth. I think Lesner's
gonna win. Let me say this, I think Leslerd's gonna win,
but I'm not super confident in it, so I wouldn't
put a lot of money on it depending on the spread.
But I'm going back and forth in terms of how
it will happen, and we just don't have a huge

(02:32:17):
body of work with Lesner, and Kane is a smaller fighter,
and Lesner, as he said on Saturday night, he said,
you know, typically he's handled smaller fighters pretty well, and
that's why I think Lesner can win. But I just
don't know. With what Kane brings to the table and
the type of power that he's shown, I'm not sure
that he couldn't stun Lesner and at least slow him

(02:32:37):
down if Lesner controlled Kane on the ground because of
that size advantage, that's huge and that's what did en
Frank meher. So Yeah, and Lessner is getting so much
better so quickly too. I don't think that can be underestimated.
So I'm hesitanting to say that I could see Lesner
plowing through velaskas because when I've seen Kane fight, I've
just thought this is the guy who's who I think

(02:32:58):
could could stop Rock. So I don't know where are
your thoughts on that.

Speaker 19 (02:33:01):
Well, Kin is not going to be the guy who
pulls a car on. He's not going to gas himself out.
This guy has got incredible conditioning and if they do
go five rounds, he's ready for it. And the question
is if Brock is And you know, I think Brock
knows that based on the fact that he's showing up
as light as he is, I think he's preparing for
a long fight. Not that he doesn't think he can
put him away early and won't try, but I think

(02:33:23):
he knows there's a chance this one could go five
rounds for the first time, and we'll learn a lot
about Brock. Lesner. Eileen Lesner, I usually, you know, other
the one I was up in the airbout was that
first mirror fight ever since then, I picked Brock, and
so I'm gonna I'm gonna stick with Brock again this time.
But boy, other than you know, the car Win rematch
and if this, if this fight is good enough to

(02:33:43):
warrant to rematch, it's going to get a little shaky
for the heavyweight division after that, because I think Brock
just plows through Junior Dos Santos, And yeah, maybe they
get the big dream fight with fat or coming over
if they can get that. But otherwise, you know, let's
say I think this, we're looking at the next you know,
two or three possible great heavyweight matchups for Brocks. So

(02:34:05):
enjoy while last.

Speaker 11 (02:34:07):
The good part is is because they don't fight. Lesner
doesn't fight very often. It does give us a couple
of years for somebody to rise through the ranks and
do what Junior Del Santos did until his last fight,
which is look look like that intriguing fight where you know,
kind of what Dan Hardy was to GSP. Can somebody
come on strong. Maybe you can debate whether they deserve
the title shot, but they have done enough and haven't

(02:34:31):
done enough to show that maybe their upside is tremendous
and they are going to be that person and and so,
but you're right, I mean it's not There aren't a
lot of dream matchups left for Lesner, in part because
of how dominating he is. It makes me wonder if
how you know, how Dana White feels about whether he
wants Lesner to be this unstoppable monster or whether he

(02:34:51):
wants her to be a little more parody among the
top among the top contenders, you know, I mean Roy Nelson,
I mean I just I don't know if people are
gonna get excited for him and Nogera. I mean, I
don't think people think, you know, based on how he's
performed that that that Yeah, it's just it is. It
is pretty thin after that.

Speaker 4 (02:35:08):
You know.

Speaker 19 (02:35:08):
The nice thing though, is if bronc is Is turns
out to be dominant, I mean that sells. We saw
that with Mike Tyson for so far, and so you
can you can sell that, especially at the heavyweight division.
I think Anderson Silva is getting a little bit tough
to sell with his dominance against other you know, anyone
who's doesn't test positive for performance. Yeah, but you know,

(02:35:29):
I do think you can sell just Brock the beast
and fighting whoever, and you just never know, and you're
gonna get that Buster Douglas moment where maybe Brock gets
a little complacent at some point. And you know what
great drama that would set up is if he does
continue to win say three, four, five more fights, and
then all of a sudden he does get a little complacent.
It opens the door for somebody to step in there

(02:35:49):
and become an overnight sensation.

Speaker 11 (02:35:51):
I think when the way that UFC has promoted has
learned how to promote big fights, I think that they're
in a pretty good position to sell us between Dana
White and Joe Rogan and Brock Lesner, to sell us
even a mediocre fight as being you know, a puncher's
chance or you know, is create a storyline for Brock.

(02:36:12):
But the thing about brocketting complacent is he didn't start
out young. He started off after he failed as a
Minnesota Viking at the Minnesota Viking Trials, And he would
disagree with that term because it was a valiant, valiant
effort to at that late in the game become a
professional level player, and he was greatly praised, which is
technically speaking, he failed to make the team, And so
I don't think he takes that for granted. He already
went through the whole WWE thing. I think Brock knows

(02:36:34):
his time is limited to be perhaps seen as the
greatest heavyweight of all time twenty five years from now
when he's long retired. And I don't know that he's
not one dimensional enough as a person to not just
stay focused and he is an athlete at heart, and
I don't since he's faking it when he talks about
how much he enjoys learning and getting better at this

(02:36:55):
every step of the way. But there's got to be
some I mean, you almost if you're if you're a
you've got to be out there looking if you're USC
or one of the training camps out for somebody who's
a monster with great amateurst in credentials, who's younger than Brock,
and put them on a four year plan to try
to unseat the unefeated champion.

Speaker 19 (02:37:13):
No, and you're right about it, you know the age factor.
I think if this were the WWE version of Brock,
he'd be more susceptible to that Buster Douglas moment with
the big upset out of nowhere, because he you know,
he did give it. He's admitted he got caught up
in the partying and everything else. And you know, the
Brock we hear about now is go hunt and fishing
and hang out with Riena at home. I mean that, really,

(02:37:34):
I don't hear anything that contradicts that. I don't get
the sense that he's flying off to Vegas to partied
up for weeks at a time, like Tyson used to,
so a really good point there.

Speaker 11 (02:37:43):
Yeah all right, Jason, as always a pleasure. I always
enjoy a little Yust talk before brocks By. Of course,
thanks so much for joining me once again, and thanks
to all the dot n members for listening, for joining
us again, and of course the pet by Torch the
XNE members.

Speaker 1 (02:38:12):
Invite you to email the show with feedback or questions
or comments. That email address is Wade Keller Podcast at
petwtorch dot com. That's Wadekeller Podcast at PW torch dot com.
Also welcome your feedback on Twitter. Even follow us on
Twitter at PW Torch and follow me at the Wade Keller.
That's at PW Torch and at the Wade Keller.

Speaker 27 (02:38:35):
Searching for more great pro wrestling talk, then join me
Jason Powell, host of the three weekly Pro Wrestling Boom Podcast.
Each week you'll hear the latest news and analysis from
me and my team at pro Wrestling dot Net along
with other pro wrestling media members. Plus, the Pro Wrestling
Boom podcast features long form interviews with notable names in
the pro wrestling industry. Subscribe and itunestit your downcast and

(02:38:56):
all your favorite secondary apps, or visit us directly at
PW boom dot com. Once again, that's PW boom dot com.

Speaker 1 (02:39:06):
Thanks for listening to our podcast. Did you know we
also have a website pwtorch dot com daily news updates, editorials,
and my live TV coverage covering Raw, Dynamite and SmackDown
and my live pay per view coverage for WWE and AEW.
Create a tab or bookmark make it a daily stop.
Visit us throughout the day every day to keep up
on breaking news and more. That's pw torch dot com.

Speaker 13 (02:39:30):
Need an extra dose of positivity in your wrestling podcasts,
will come join me Alan fourrel Over in the Progress
Paradise at pterbew Torch vip as we mask on the
bright side of wrestling and focus on some of the
great matches and shows from around the world, be it US, Japan,
Europe or Mexico. There's always a place for wrestlings past

(02:39:51):
and the paradise too, and we've done fun historical shows
such as the We Love Liger series celebrating the glorious
career of Jusian Thunderliger and I was there when shows
where our guests will join me to talk about a
classic bout that they were in attendance for. We love
variety and you can expect lots of it at the
Progress Paradise. Detailed pw tors VIP subscription information on a

(02:40:14):
list of all the VIP benefits is available at pwrew
Torch vip info dot com. And yes, all VIP podcasts
are compatible with popular podcast apps on iPhone and Android devices,
or you can stream them directly from our ad free
VIP mobile site See you in the Paradise.

Speaker 1 (02:40:33):
One way that you can help us sustain our schedule
of putting out podcasts throughout the week is by giving
us a five star rating on Apple Podcasts. Just go
to Apple Podcasts and look for our Weightkeller Pressing Podcast
and Weight Keller Processing Post show and give us a
five star rating. We hope you think we've earned that
score with our fast turnaround times and our quantity and
quality of wrestling analysis throughout the week. So take a

(02:40:54):
moment out for us and do us favor and give
us a five star rating and Apple Podcasts. That helps
us on search returns and helps us grow. And if
you want, you can add a few comments about what
you like about the programs in the comments section, thank
you so much.

Speaker 23 (02:41:10):
In twenty twelve, NXT transitioned into the developmental system and
ultimately the brand you see today. On the Torch VIP
podcast NXT Eight Years Back, we'll be taking a weekly
look at this page in NXT's early history.

Speaker 17 (02:41:26):
Join Kelly Wells and me Tom Stout from PWT Talks
NXT every Saturday as we go eight years back to
the day to track NXT's rising talents and why they
did or didn't work out, exclusively for PW Torch VIP members.

Speaker 1 (02:41:39):
PW Torch VIP membership doesn't just give you add free
access to these shows and a ton of other VIP
exclusive podcasts throughout the week, but you also gain access
to our unmatched vast library of wrestling history, our contemporaneous
week to week coverage through our progressing Torch Weekly newsletters
dating back to the late nineteen eighties, along with streaming
and download access to hundreds of retro radio shows from
the nighteth nineties, including some of my interviews with wrestling's

(02:42:02):
top newsmakers in the nineties, and also our podcast library
dating back to the year two thousand and three. There's
no larger, longer spanning pro wrestling podcast library than that
that comes with a pw Torch VIP membership. Now we're
approaching twenty years of podcasting. Go VIP and dive into
our post pay per view roundtables are covered with some
of your favorite eras of wrestling, top name long form

(02:42:25):
interviews and special format podcasts that we've done throughout the years.
Pw torch dot com slash go VIP. We have a
streamline sign up for me and you can pay with
PayPal or directly with your credit card or debit card.
In one or two minutes from right now, you can
be a VIP member and diving into our library. Pw
torch dot com slash Go vip

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

On Purpose with Jay Shetty

The Joe Rogan Experience

Stuff You Should Know

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}15 YRS AGO LIVECASTS: McMahon's YouTube video & WWE's response to "criticism," Bischoff-Bret, Tough Enough's return, Stand Up For WWE, more

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}On Purpose with Jay Shetty

The Joe Rogan Experience

Stuff You Should Know

All Episodes

15 YRS AGO LIVECASTS: McMahon's YouTube video & WWE's response to "criticism," Bischoff-Bret, Tough Enough's return, Stand Up For WWE, more

On Purpose with Jay Shetty