15 YRS AGO LIVECASTS: Miz as WWE Champ so far, Juan Cena, Robert Roode's flat six years, Bryan's WWE future, 1995 look-back

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
We are running our second VIP sale of the year.
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Speaker 2 (01:36):
Now.

Speaker 3 (01:37):
PW Torch and Spreaker bring you the Wade Keller Pro
Wrestling Podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:46):
On today's Weekkelor Pro Wrestling Podcast which jumped back fifteen
years to a doubleheader of shows hosted on the holiday
weekend by James Caldwell, PW Torch Assistant editor. First Up,
the November twenty six, twenty ten episode features Brian Hoops
as Jane as co hosts. They talked about impact from
the night before, the product being stale and irrelevant. The
next Young WWE start a hold a major title, Randy

(02:08):
Orton turning heel, Daniel Bryant's standing in w B, and
also a prediction on where it is headed going forward,
the Misses WWE title run and whether it was the
right move, Robert rud staying flat over a six year period,
how to use veterans in TNA, and more. And then
in the previously VIP exclusive after show portion, they talked
about Alberta De Rio and John Morrison, Bobby Heenan nostalgia

(02:30):
news and notes, and a look back at the Pursing
Towards newsletter from twenty years ago, breaking down a poor
time for wrestling in the nineteen nineties and the big
news of that week. Then the November twenty ninth, twenty
ten episode features Bruce Mitchell joining James Calvill with live
callers talk about that night's three hour Raw prediction for
who would win the King of the Ring. WWE's business

(02:51):
taking another hit with the October pay per view by
Rate announced TNA impact in the over world State of TNA,
missus first night as w champ on Raw, the one
scenic gimmick whether Owen Hart and or Eric Bischoff would
be inducted into the w Hall of Fame, Leslie Nielsen,
and much more so. Lots of cool topics here in
our fifteen years ago doubleheader flashback for Friday, November twenty eighth,

(03:11):
twenty twenty five.

Speaker 3 (03:14):
Hero listening to the PW Torch live cast. This is
p to B Torch Assistant editor James Caldwell hosting today
on the day act of Thanksgiving, which would be November
twenty six, twenty ten. Should be joined by Bryan Hoops,
our nostalgia columnist during the broadcast, and I will get
him on the show today. It's kind of you know,

(03:35):
it's obviously the slow newsweek with I guess colla slow
newsweek and his one WW title, but sort of a
slower last couple of days of Thanksgiving and tnay impact
episode last night that was a TNA impact episode. It
was I mean, it was TNA. It was Bischoff and
Hogan and Dixie and a lot of emphasis on a

(03:58):
Thanksgiving skit with people who are not wrestlers. So not
much in the way of anything new to discuss from
TNA last night. But obviously we'll take your phone calls
on TNA the Miz. We'll talk about the mis obviously
still a big hot topic. Also, we have a question
of the Day today on which young star in WW

(04:19):
is On p tob torch dot com which young star
in ww you think will be next to hold the
WV or the Word to Wait title for the first time.
Obviously miss won his first major title in WV. We've
got a lot of replies for John Morrison, obviously, Berto
del Rio with the big push that he's received. Brian

(04:39):
Danielson has received some some votes as well. We just
posted a poll on this on pbtorch dot com, just
kind of taken our question of theday into poll form.
In the earlier results that Delrio leading, Wade Barrett number two,
John Morrison number three, Danielson number four as most likely
to as one of the younger stars in w B

(05:01):
most likely to hold a major title in w W next,
so del Rio is leading that. Just posted that poll,
so you can go ahead and jump on that. We'll
also take feedback on the question today if you want
to submit a written response on that. We do that
every day on pbtorch dot com. A question today, something
in the news, something on TVs, something newsworthy, trying to

(05:23):
let me just get some feedback and get your thoughts
on hot topic every day, and on SAT Tomorrow's question
today we'll have who's your pick to win the King
of the Ring Tournament on Monday's Raw that will be
posted tomorrow morning after Tonight's SmackDown, which we'll have the
four final qualifying matches for the King of Ring Tournament
on Monday's three hour All so obviously also that show

(05:48):
will have these fallout from the mis and his first
major championship victory in w B and all that drama
leading to the TLC pay per view in December. So
of course, taking calls on w B TNA, Hey, you're
watching some football, go ahead and give us a call
and talk from wrestling with us. Take a break from
football and let's talk from wrestling Impact as well. Don't

(06:08):
know if we'll get the ratings today, with it being
a holiday yesterday, we'll probably won't get ratings until tomorrow
for teeny Impact. I imagine they won't be that great.
It was a holiday, people out, probably a lot of
DVR reviews, and the previous week's show was down pretty
down about fifteen percent and viewership, so you know we'll

(06:30):
get there. Verse the Train were added in DVR viewership.
Of course, they're also up against football yesterday. So but
if you watch The Impact, do you want to talk
about it. We'll take your calls on that. Otherwise, WNW
topics in the news, bring them honor and out several
big matches. Whatever's on your mind rustling related, we will
take your phone calls looking ahead to what's to come
of the next week or so as we end November

(06:53):
and head into December. Let's go to our first phone
call today. This is from the four to one five
eerie code four one five. Welcome to the Please state
your name and where you're from.

Speaker 4 (07:03):
Going on, James, is that Jonathan from San Francisco?

Speaker 5 (07:06):
Hey, John, let's go out today, and I'm just want
to wish you a happy Thanksgiving to you as well.

Speaker 3 (07:12):
Thanks for having Thank you, thank you.

Speaker 4 (07:14):
I got three like quick questions, sure, and one of
them and uh with the like with the whole who
the who's the next young superstar.

Speaker 3 (07:26):
To come up and be heavyweight champion?

Speaker 4 (07:28):
Uh? Like, what is it do do the he'll make
more money or the company make more money? At the
heel with the champion and the baby face is chasing.

Speaker 3 (07:38):
It is done correctly then, yeah? I think so. The
traditional the traditional model in rustling is that you have
that baby face on the quest and and that baby
face chases down the yield, whether it's for the title,
whether it's you know, just to you know, drop a few,
you know, and there's sort of a quest to give

(07:58):
the heel that come up in that. That's always traditionally
drawing money the babyface. When when a babyface draws as
a champion, it's when you know, there's a certain there's
there's a lot of different factors that come into play.
You've gotta have that quest. And I think that one
of the reasons why looking at Brandy Horton in his

(08:19):
two months go to be title reigned, whytt I mean
I called a fail here, and I don't think it's Orton.
I think it's the booking. But you know, he went
on uh you know, he went on the house shows
without seeing it for two weekends and did not draw
at all. He went to California, he went to I
came in with I don't remember as Anaheim or Los Angeles,
but he went to a major market and drew three

(08:41):
thousand people in headline X. So he didn't draw very well.
But I put that on wn B not having that
quest for him as a baby face coming in as
a champion. So I think that was disappointing, you know,
but probably did. Are you Are you on the line
with us, Brian now James hearing, Yeah, Brian, good to

(09:02):
have you on the show. This is kind of a
little bit of an estabish question. Uh, we've got a
question from Johnson. This is Brian Hoops, so nostylegic calmust
give you a formal intro. He was asking if john
was asking about sort of the uh sort of the
you know, just heels draw or I guess do heels
draw money more when there's a baby, say, chasing after them? Uh,

(09:25):
you know sort of you know, baby facing over come
up bands or trying to go after the title. What's
your what's your chase on on? You know, how do
you draw with the traditional model of you know, sort
of the baby face chasing after a hot heel.

Speaker 6 (09:37):
Well, you know that's been the historical uh president that
that residents modeled, especially in the seventy eight in the eighties,
they had a heel champion that would kind of shot
from town to town and the local baby fates would
be the one that would be chasing the title. And
that's how they you know, build their drawing cards. And
we get that at the end Wula. You know Terry Funkle,
Kapri Heel Nick Player of course, Charlie Ray. Of these

(10:01):
guys were all major heels that went in the territories,
went from town to town and say the city and
looking for a crowd and the baby face opponents to
draw with. And typically, like I said, that is one
of the big lights that they drew money drew at
the house shows. And you know, there's there's been a
lot of cases where you could point to where the

(10:22):
heels came into a big event as champion with the
storyline that the baby face was trying to take the
title away from that heel, and you know that was
where your ultimate victory ended up taking place. You could
you look back at some of the wrestle meia is
the early one Pogan came in a champion, but to
take back to the WrestleMania five with Savage, he came

(10:43):
in as a heel after a one year of reign
and with Pogan coming into regained the title from him
at nineteen or nineteen ninety.

Speaker 3 (10:53):
Yeah, yeah, those are good examples. Definitely, Sean the back,
did you did you fault on that question or did
you have the other two Quart joined.

Speaker 4 (11:00):
As, Yeah, about the whole African American experience in wrestling.
Who was the very first African American to debut in
the wrestling ring? What year was it and what was
the star power? Is it Journey Lad that was the
first African American to jaw big or was it just
because sometimes he comes across as like the very first

(11:22):
African American to debut in the wrestling rings. I just
want to see if there was anybody else, whether it's Japan,
United States, or Canada wherever.

Speaker 3 (11:31):
Yeah, I'm bron you can take this one as well.
There were obviously there were wrestlers that came before Ernie Ladd,
But was he the first big one, you know, the
first African American wrestling star or were there others before him?

Speaker 5 (11:45):
He was he was one of the biggest.

Speaker 6 (11:46):
Fooling you really his credibility came from the NFL, where
he's an NFL All of Famer when he played the
Chargers in the Chiefs back in the early sixties and
he was doing Canada you play the football, but also
doing the rest flum on the side. He's probably as
the first or the earliest African American champion or biggest

(12:07):
draw Faircraft right is probably one of the biggest ones,
and he was w w A and was recognized as
a world title Los Angeles. He was one of the
bigger drawing champions in that region of that territory. He
would work with programs like John Polos and Freddie Blasty
and then Eduan Girl Paprier back in the late fifties

(12:28):
and early sixties, so he would have preceeded Ernie Last
as far as the African American drawing champion. And then
you know, there were some other guys that would come
into in the towns of Bobo Brazil, Tyles Colombe, you know, early,
very early type of African Americans that threw in the
late fifties, early sixties. Those are the guys that come,

(12:50):
you know to half of my mind anyway.

Speaker 3 (12:54):
Well, where does Suitor Bull Patterson fit into there in
terms of a draw and how does he just back
up against you thirty lad and guys at that level.

Speaker 6 (13:05):
You know, I don't think Cunderbolt Patterson really is on
the same level as a Ernie Landstar as a grinding
card Centerbolt was not a great worker inside the ring.
He didn't have a unique charisma outside the ring, that's eable.

Speaker 1 (13:24):
Give yourself a reason to look forward to going to
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Speaker 3 (14:20):
You still are you still there? Brian? Seeole who lost
you for a sec? We'll get Brian back to the line. Well,
let's go back to Johnson jimp Off on.

Speaker 4 (14:27):
That or what was your third question, Yeah, that was
pretty much because I heard that, you know, Ernie Ladd
was you know, pretty much the first. I think that's
who everybody remembers as the very first African American person
to step in the ring. But always had figured that,
you know, probably in the fifties and you know, thirties
and forties, that there will probably be people that was,

(14:48):
you know, just discriminated begins and stuff like that, that
who who they had their own federations and stuff like
that or whatever, just all black and stuff. And just
one more final question about TNA was horrible by the way,
I was watching reaction and I guess that's that's when
Dixie Carter came in during the whole the Holey stuff.

(15:09):
Uh huh, can't somebody explain to me why? Uh why?
First of all, why teenage don't they need to copy
the w w U s and the w c W days.
Uh just you know, I'm tired of seeing all these
Thanksgiving you know, parties backstage and stuff. And what the
hell was that with? Uh Dixie Carter when she walked
in and she said, you know, just gave them this
paper and it was all about the board, the board,

(15:31):
the rights and they stripped Ho coking up his powers
and stuff. And not only that, they kind of aliterated that, uh,
Dixie Carter had no power, but then they on the
graphic it says she's still the president of the company.

Speaker 3 (15:47):
What's going on? If I mean it's ten a, I mean,
it's it's what that's what they know. How that's what
that's what they know. What's right? You know, all they
know what the right is what they did and inn
w c W, what they did in WWE. They know
one type of show and that's it. And it's just
so frustrating to watch it because it's a xerox of

(16:08):
the copy of the xerox and you know, like came
on the show and I just said I had nothing
to say about the show. It's, uh, you know, I
haven't watched reaction yet, so I haven't seen I haven't
seen you know, the the you know, the main point reaction.
But I've seen enough of impact in that broadcast and
know what happened and U without having done a report yet.

(16:28):
But I mean, it's just the same thing. It's the
same power struggles amongst non wrestlers. It's it's just business
as usual and until old TNA gets a creative change.
You know, it's there's not much to say. It's just
it's a company that's not relevant, that's moving in an
irrelevant direction, and no one is making an effort to
make a change. Brian, from what you know about last

(16:51):
night's show and just the overall TNA direction and the
products and creative doesn't surprise you that they would have
a show like last night where it's just pretty much
the power struggle with Dixie and Bishop and Ogan.

Speaker 6 (17:04):
No, you know, that's that's kind of the format they've
been going with so over the last year, and they're
just kind of continuing that storyline. Dickie is now trying
to come back in through the company poll of power play,
and it's not a fresh storyline in.

Speaker 7 (17:18):
My opinion anyway.

Speaker 6 (17:19):
They've been doing the same type of storyline with different
players since Hogan and Bishop rise, you know in December
game he said, right of a year ago, or it's
still in the same you know, kind of like anything
else the team, they were kind of stuck at the
same level with the same people doing the same angles
and just kind of repeating everything. And one of the
biggest things that he and a have a problem with

(17:42):
is there's no system of checks and balances to look
at some of this stuff.

Speaker 5 (17:45):
You know, when you've got an angle that continues to
be rehached and redone without any threat involvement of new
players or characters, or you have things that can flip
through the cracks because they're doing so many angles, like
the TNA continues to do.

Speaker 3 (18:00):
Yeah, checks and balances. That's a really great way of
putting it there. There is no I mean, obviously Dixie
Carter does not has not shown that she is savvy
to the wrestling business despite being in it for seven years.
I mean, really, no one should be running the company
unless they have at least ten years of non non
running a company experience just to understand wrestling. She does

(18:20):
not understand wrestling. Otherwise she would have fired Vince Russo
five years ago. She would have she would not have
brought in She would not have kept Hogan and Bishop
after they proved that they don't have any ideas on
what to do with the wrestling company. This whole is
getting real crap. I mean, it's just garbage. You know,
it's just tell us the story and you don't have
to tell us this is real. This is getting real.

(18:41):
Oh now we're shooting, brother, It's just just stop. You know,
it's not productive. So there is no checks and balances.
There is no one who will stand up and say,
you know what this is, This needs to change, We
need a different direction because everyone just wants to keep
a job. It's just it's survival mode. It's job security mode.
And that's why it's just you know, it's DNA. There

(19:03):
is there are no changes. Nothing will change until people
are removed from the situation, and that doesn't appear to
be happening anytime soon. So again, you're listening to the
pit to be Torch a lot. Oh, Brian, go ahead, Brian.

Speaker 6 (19:17):
I'm sorry getting I'm just gonna point out that, you know,
when when Jim Cortnett was with the company, he was
their system of checking ballance because he would be the
one that would stand up to lose. So in some
of these ideas and say how things didn't make sense
of why.

Speaker 3 (19:32):
Oh, but love loves Brian. Then we'll get Brian back
on the line. I was gonna I was gonna go
and reset and see you're listening to the to B
Torch live cast. If you want to join us, live
with a phone call. If you're listening to us live
on Blocktalk Radio, you can give us a call at
six four six seven one nine eight two eight. You're
sitting down watching football and you want to talk from wrestling,

(19:53):
or if you're just out shopping. Uh I did not
even venture out to any any type of shopping today.
Just I haven't done that probably ever since I worked
at JC Fenny ten years ago. I said I would
never be involved in post Thanksgiving shopping in my entire
life ever. Again, uh so I haven't gone out. But
if you're out shopping, if you want to join us

(20:14):
live and talks in wrestling while you're out in a bout,
while you're watching TV hanging out on a Friday after Thanksgiving,
give us a call six four, six, seven to one nine,
eight to eight. We'll get Brian back on the line.
And John did appreciate your call. A lot of good
topics you brought up there. Let's go to our next
phone call today. This is from the from the two
to one nine EREI code two one nine. Welcome to

(20:36):
the show. Please hit your name and where you're from.

Speaker 8 (20:39):
Hi, This is Shane from Indiana.

Speaker 3 (20:41):
Hey Shane, what's going on to Okay, I have a
not much.

Speaker 8 (20:44):
I got a question about it. Seemed like back in
the day, wrestling was big on Thanksgiving night. You know,
there's a Survivor series. There's an article on the Torch website,
you know, Thanksgiving eighty seven and they had the Survivor series.
World Class had a show and the UA had us.
Oh I think it was dark ape.

Speaker 3 (21:01):
Yeah, what happened?

Speaker 8 (21:03):
I mean, now we're stuck with p and A Impact
and thinks Night and Superstar.

Speaker 3 (21:07):
Don't forget about superstit noough, you know, is there a.

Speaker 8 (21:12):
Reason why the w w E move a Survivor series
from was it rating?

Speaker 9 (21:17):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (21:17):
I mean I think rating. I don't think it was
bad raised. I think it was a matter of they
wanted to have all their pay per views on Sundays.

Speaker 9 (21:24):
You know.

Speaker 3 (21:24):
And when we'll get Brian back in the line, we'll
kind of talk about this change a little bit more
in depth, because that was one of the things I
definitely want to talk about with Brian today. Was you know,
like like you said, we had that article on pebitwords
dot com. You know in nineteen eighty seven. This was
twenty three years ago. I mean Thanksgiving and even before
that sixties, seventies, eighties, it was a huge deal. I
think part of it is a you know, a shift

(21:45):
from the territories to you know, national TV. It's it's
a weekly thing. It's it's you know, it's a weekly
TV broadcast. It's uh, it's you know, it's Monday night,
it's Tuesday night, it's Thursday night, it's Friday night. They're
all aren't those big supercards anymore? You don't really have that.
And pay per views are locked in on Sunday nights
for wrestling, you know, Sunday night is wrestling pay per

(22:07):
view night. It's you know, it's the cable company operators.
They have those con WT and A had those contracts,
the cable pay per view operators. Sunday night is your
pay per view night.

Speaker 5 (22:17):
You know.

Speaker 3 (22:18):
So I think, you know, there's a big shift away
from sort of those the you know, the big card
on Thursday. Even look at up to me, they they
don't have shows on Christmas night. They have a whole tour,
you know, the four or five days right after Christmas,
they have their their post Christmas tour. Sort of that
that week when the kids are off for school and
then you go to a show, you know, on a

(22:39):
Wednesday night and it's not on school night, so they
have that and uh, Brian, aren't you back in the
line with us?

Speaker 6 (22:46):
I'm back on the line.

Speaker 3 (22:47):
You're em sorry about that. That's okaya, sha are our
caller here, But a really great question I was actually
gonna ask you about and talking we add the article
on Peter B Torch dot com talking about the nineteen
eighty seven Thanksgiving cards with WWF Survivor series, the NWA
Jim Crockett promotion STARCA eating seventh World Class of the Card. Right,

(23:08):
what's your take on why there's been such a shift
away from those big, you know, holiday cards and the
world Class and their Christmas and Thanksgiving cards. Survivor series
used to be on Thanksgiving. Why the shift away from
having those big holiday cards in the modern era.

Speaker 6 (23:27):
That's a good question. In fact, George Shire and myself
talked about that on our Nostalgia program this week.

Speaker 10 (23:32):
We talked about the old old.

Speaker 6 (23:34):
School mentality of having not only Thanksgiving cards but also
Christmas cards, and we've gone away from doing both of those.
Those more the two gifts and the the two biggest
drawing nights of the entire year, and we don't let
anything anymore on Thanksgiving, her Christmas. A lot of it
has to do with knit sick Man's in his idea

(23:54):
to go national, and when you went to more of
a national promotion, it took away the local drawing pool
in the drawing and the couple of small companies that
could draw locally. You used to have the big Startkade
event on the Thanksgiving night. Aw I used to run
big shows, world class, these sun shows like you mentioned,
all the major promotions, even from the small ones. Their

(24:15):
biggest shows of the year were built towards that Thanksgiving
each show. And when when Vinclac National, a lot of
these smaller companies just went away or or died out
the idea of doing a local Thanksgiving night program where
you get the family together and go out on Thanksgiving
Night to the big matches win by the wayside as well.

(24:38):
And you know something that's probably never going to come back.
You've got so much competing talent. Now, You've got college
major college football games on on Thursday nights, you get
an NFL game on Thursday nights. There's probably some basketball
games on Thursday nights. There's just so much competition that
you're you're not going to see that type of a
renewal revival come back into play again.

Speaker 3 (24:59):
Yeah. I think it's the corporation the I guess that's
the word, sort of the corporate wrestling environment that we're
in now. You know, it's uh, like I was talking about,
you know, the wrestlings on Monday night, Tuesday night, Thursday night,
at Friday night, it's you know, it's slotted on national
television each night of the week, seemingly. And there's also
the pay per views. The pay per view companies have

(25:20):
their deal with ww and TNA you will run your
pay per views on this, you know, on Sunday nights,
you know that sort of the cable pay per view deal.
So I would you know, I attributed to, like you said,
going national, sort of the corporate structure of wrestling. It's
unfortunate because I think those things could draw if you
did a you know, if I then I would say

(25:41):
that w V should drop a one of their monthly
pay per views and have one of those cards on uh,
you know, Thanksgiving, you know, drop drop bragging rights and
put a big card on on Thanksgiving on USA network,
you know, kind of give that you know, here's what
a pay per view looks like. Kind of give a
sample of what a paid review looks like to the
audience for free and have that maybe be an enticement

(26:04):
for someone to order the next paper because they say,
oh man, well that's kind of a step above in
a normal episode. Orrow, maybe I'll order the you know,
the next pay per views. So do you I mean,
do you think that would help it? All is is
to drop, uh, you know, to drop one of those
pay per views that are just absolutely killing business right
now and uh and maybe put a holiday special on
either Thanksgiving or Christmas. Bran, I think it would.

Speaker 5 (26:28):
Be a neat feature if they would do that, you know,
on teams already running every Thursday night saying with Thanksgiving
the ball their year. So if you you know, fans
want to fix of wrestling on Thanksgiving, nikers free program
to watch on TNA. And really, from that standpoint, TEAMA
would be in the best position to run a major

(26:48):
show or run some sort of special Thanksgiving special to
just a reagular program where they're promote Nagles that they're
running a major uh wrestling program that made it, you know,
that had a special feel to it and unfortunately that
taking advantage of it.

Speaker 3 (27:02):
Yeah, I mean that show last night was I mean,
it's just it's just a waste of time. I mean,
it's just it's not taking a product anywhere. No one
is interested in the latest Bishop Hogan Dixie Power struggles.
So Shane, back to you, did you have any other
fault on that Thanksgiving question or another question you want
to ask?

Speaker 8 (27:20):
Well, yeah, what happened to they remember when they used
to have the Field Survivor series reports, mean, Jane would
would get on the air and he talked about every
match and they the wrestlers involved would have their interviews.

Speaker 3 (27:32):
Whatever.

Speaker 8 (27:32):
Whatever happened to those reports? Why why do they stop
doing those?

Speaker 3 (27:36):
Brian go ahead with that.

Speaker 6 (27:40):
I don't I don't know why they could do it
that set of promotion. I think it's one of the
reasons why the the House Shols and the pay per
view specialtiests have really went downhill. As far as by
race and UH and as far as the focal point
of the program, it's just not it's something that they're
pushing anymore, I think, especially TNA, but maybe to a

(28:02):
small extent, WWE C the paper Your business is kind
of deflining. Of course the revenues are and they just
have decided not to push that that there's other things
that they want to push more and and really there
it shouldn't be I mean, they should be pushing that
more and more, that that is a focal points of
their programs each and every episode.

Speaker 3 (28:24):
Yeah, it's unfortunately it's not so uh shame any final
thoughtswer question, it.

Speaker 8 (28:32):
Seems like they're revolving their product around their TV shows
now and the pay per views. They're just kind of
taking a back seat, you know, to the TV shows.

Speaker 3 (28:40):
I don't know that's a good or bad thing.

Speaker 8 (28:44):
Yeah, I mean they probably, I mean they don't you know,
they don't bring in as much revenue on the TV
shows as do they because they did on the pay
per views.

Speaker 3 (28:52):
Well, I mean it used to be where they made
more revenue on the pay per views and the TV shows,
but I mean nothing's flipped. I mean, to look into
last quarter, I think they made thirty million off of
off TV rights or must have been been like thirty
five million off TV rights, and the paper business was
down to about eighteen million. So I mean there's a

(29:14):
shift away from the pay per views to the TV
and you know, you know, maintaining the USA Network deal
and keeping that strong and doing the three hour specials.
And I mean that's why you're seeing so many three
hour specials this quarter, you know, three and this this fall,
this fault period, you're gonna see three three hour specials.

(29:34):
They've got to keep USA Network, They've got to keep
that thing going, you know. So it's it's kind of
the shift in the nature of wrestling from w's perspective,
and the pay per views I think are suffering. And
I mean, to me, they either need to restructure their
pay per views to where they actually can maximize revenues

(29:56):
from that business segment, or you know, drop eight of them,
you know, and do the and focus more on TV.
I mean, that's their that's their bread and butter right now.
So either, I mean, they're trying to serve two masters.
They're not doing it very effectively, I don't believe. So
it's got the nature of the beast right now.

Speaker 8 (30:14):
Yeah, I mean, you would think they would have they
would have had the mis win the title on the
pay per view if they e the you know, the
pay per views more than the TV shows, But they don't.
I don't know anyone.

Speaker 3 (30:24):
Yeah, it doesn't seem that way. Yeah, well, great shame.
We appreciate having you on the on the show today.
Good call there, good.

Speaker 1 (30:33):
Questions if you missed it earlier. Just a reminder, we're
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(30:54):
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When you check out on our sign up form pw
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details on membership benefits and links to our sign up form.

Speaker 3 (31:08):
Brian, you your thoughts in the miss and and the
title of victory. I'm really sort of I haven't even
really waited on this yet in an audio or a
written form kind of. I kind of want to feel
out where they're going with this, especially on this Monday's
Raw with a three hour show. How much of that
is a focus versus how much of the King of

(31:29):
the Ring is a focus. What is your take, Brian
On on the Missess title of victory and do you
have a problem with it? Do you think it's a
good move? Where do you think they're going with it?

Speaker 6 (31:41):
I think it's a great move. I think, well that's
the factors. Is something you and I talked about, you know,
several months ago, is that you know the Randy Orton
era was not working. They Bran went with him a
couple of different times, and it really hasn't worked it.

Speaker 5 (31:54):
He's not a true baby face. He needs much better
as a heal and they needed to give the Mez
or someone else a chance to run with it here
and see the things impress enough. And I think that's
a great move on their part. And he is certainly
I think ready he's improved in the ring enough to
make it a main event level match. He's certainly improved
on the microphone and good enough to carry things and

(32:16):
a path level program. So I think it's a great
move that they're doing. They needed something fresh, they needed
a new idea for a main event for wrestle me
and if you want to have the storyline that seen
and chases Miss for the belt culminate at wrestle me.
I have absolutely no.

Speaker 6 (32:32):
Problems with that. So the type of storyline just keep
his fresh, keep them apart, and I think that would
be a great storyline in the new records wrestle Menia business.
But it could at least way of foundations to build
upon there if you can create Mis into a new start.
So I think it's something they definitely needed to do
to turn business around. It's become stagnant, and you know,

(32:56):
I think they got to run with him here for
at least the three to six months stretch.

Speaker 3 (33:00):
Do you think that they would do that though? Do
you think they would actually keep the belt on Miss
to WrestleMania and or does it kind of depend on
how radiance come in over you know, the rest of
this year going as royal rubble? I mean, do they
have to just upple loss Brian? We'll get Brian back
in the line here, but Shane appreciate the call and
we'll keep talking about the miss. That's amount. It's a

(33:21):
hot topic. And my my physician is that I want
to see where they's going with this. I don't want
to see a Jack Swagger situation where he loses on
TV and they set him up as a vulnerable champion
and O'Mally takes him seriously. I just I don't think
that's going to work. That belt is not over. They've
got to get that belt over otherwise this is gonna

(33:43):
mean nothing for business and be back to square one
trying to find the next you know one month Rainy
or in title rain that that doesn't mean anything. So
they've got to get the belt back over. If you
can do that with the miss and go to all
the WrestleMania, then I will be shocked in the in
the positive way and I'll be surprised. But we'll see

(34:03):
and we'll see where there going started on this Monday.
I'm kind of I'm hedging by I'm kind of hedging
a little bit on on evaluating the mis and and
where he goes as a champion. But Brian, we'll get
you back on here. So is your is your prediction
mis and Orton at Wrestlemanians? You think they can hold
off all the way to that uh to that matchup
or do you think we might see that a couple

(34:23):
of times before Wrestlemanian.

Speaker 6 (34:26):
I guess I'm looking for Miss and Sena at wrestling.
I don't think they'll be back with Orton. I think,
you know, they could do something with Orton here as
who's trying to regain the belt, but I would much
rather see him go with a Sina and Miss class.
You know, they do have a little bit of a history, uh,
and I think they can play off bad enough to
carry this to a WrestleMania level event. I think what

(34:47):
you're asking me. Earlier, before we got disconnected, there was
the you know, putting the title win on TV. You know,
there's there's some good and some bad with that. The
good part was it was seen by five million people
versus two hundred thousands that would have seen it on
pay per view. And I think the negative part of it,
or the bad part was you those people that bought

(35:08):
the pay per view didn't get to see, you know,
the title change and didn't get to see something special. Instead,
it was on free TV, and so you know, it
kind of ends the negative message that you know, if
you bought the pay per view, you were fool to
do it. You should have just waited another day and
you could have got to see the title change for
free at the next night.

Speaker 3 (35:24):
I'm wrong. Yeah, and that's my problem with that. And
and you know, the the ideas that well, we gave
you John C's victory laugh and you got to see
the big moments of whether Gina would.

Speaker 4 (35:37):
Or what not.

Speaker 3 (35:38):
You know, see that's their you know, that's their way
to say, well, we're still gave the fans that. But
I mean that show on on wrong. You got two
title matches. You know, you got the WW title rematch
from the pay per view, then you got the miscash
the money in the bank. I mean to me, I mean,
if you order Survivor series, that's I'm feel like an idiot.

(36:01):
You know, if I were a Survivor series and tune
into ROW the next time I waste, I would feel
like I weighed forty five dollars. You know, obviously we
watch every pay per view, so I mean it's to me,
I'm used to it, and it's a tax righted off,
so it's not a you know, it's not a huge
loss as a as a reporter, you know, covering the

(36:21):
pay per views every single month. But I mean, if
I'm just a regular fan, I mean, my goodness, I
would I would have felt ripped off on Monday show.
But uh, you know, and I think that that has
a residual effect later on, you know, the next time,
don't have these advertising a title match or will he
won't eat type deal. I'm not gonna want to pay
for review because I want to find out what happened
next time a row. I'll probably get a better deal

(36:42):
the next night. Anyways, So I just seen they're doing
a lot of damage to pay per views.

Speaker 6 (36:47):
Good right, Bryan, Right, that's the wrong that's to send
to your to you buying customers. You know that that's
not the message at USC sends. And that's something they
really need to learn from is you don't want to
be your fans to feel like they made a mistake
of they're foolish or or were cheated by spending money
on your product. And that's the methods on WW saying

(37:08):
by putting that title change the next night on Row.

Speaker 3 (37:11):
Yeah, yep, you're listening to the P to B tors
Live Cast assist pter B Torch Assistant Editor James Caldwell
hosting today alongside Torch Nostalgia calmist Brian Hoops and Brian
let's go ahead and take another phone call here again.
If you want to join us on the live live
cast today talking w TNA. Anything else on your mind today?

(37:33):
The number to call is six four six seven one,
nine eight two eight. Let's go to the nine to
five six area code nine five six. Welcome to the show.
Please hit your name and where you're from.

Speaker 11 (37:46):
Hey guys, it's a medicine Jersey.

Speaker 3 (37:48):
Hey man, what's going on today again?

Speaker 12 (37:51):
I've been meaning to call for it the longest time,
and I'm really happy to finally be able to do that.

Speaker 3 (37:56):
So first time caller, Yeah, cool, glad to have you on.
Go ahead.

Speaker 12 (38:04):
Yeah, I just wanted to, uh mention you guys just
touched upon Randy Oron's last title reign. It was pretty lackluster. Yeah,
really getting over I myself noticed a week after week
it His reaction, his crowd reaction was you know, less

(38:26):
and less, and so I wanted to I wanted to ask, basically,
do you think I mean, we've all kind of thought this,
but now, like the end of twos and ten back,
w cannot rely on these guys anymore.

Speaker 3 (38:41):
I mean, you know, I'll answer your question to go
back to you real quick, but I think that I
think you're a lion Orton. But I think the booking
and Brian, you and I talked about this before they
switched the title to him. The booking was so short
term for for his title chase, you know, for his
his question for the championship, it was such a short
term deal. You know, there was just no there was

(39:03):
nothing behind it. There's no juice behind it. I mean, Brian,
I mean, I don't want to say Orton's damage Goods.
I think they actually booked him probably the best he's
looked in two months in the title match, because I've
got sympathy on him as a champ and and sort
of the way he was sort of screwed out of
the title, they got sympathy on him, and I think

(39:24):
that was the most over he's been in two months.
But Brian, what's your take on on Orton? And how
do you book him going forward? And I mean, is
he damaged Goods or what's your take on? And then
his role in that championship run and how much of
it was him I want to say failing, but is
not succeeding as champions.

Speaker 6 (39:43):
You know, I think he would make a better heel
champion than as a baby face. He's got a lot
more natural Christmas can work a match much better as
a heel versus a baby face, And I think that's
where you know, they can't have booked him in a
tough spot because he's supposed to be the babyface champion
and never really embrace that role completely. So he's certainly
not Damni sCOD He's got a ton of talent, a

(40:06):
lot of charisma, a very talented guy and performer, just
really almost miscast in what his role was as champion.

Speaker 3 (40:14):
Here.

Speaker 6 (40:15):
You know, they can turn him back heel and you know,
take another run or set him up as as a
number one heel over the next three to six months.

Speaker 7 (40:23):
He could have a.

Speaker 6 (40:24):
Challenger for whoever comes out of Mania as a champion,
and he could, you know, certainly fill that slot. It's
number one heel or number two heels on the robber end.

Speaker 3 (40:35):
Yeah, I mean, Bry, do you think he will be
giving up too early on him as a as a babyface?
Did they turn him heel or what? Do you think
there's still some room to sort of have him rebound
and rebuild that character as a babyface.

Speaker 6 (40:51):
Yeah, I don't think he have to completely give up
on it. You know, right now, his his demeanor is
the way he carries the wrestling match away, calls the
spots the more built towards the heels, so that it's
maybe something that he needs to learn and develop over time.
So I don't think you can completely give up on
him as as a baby face at this point. But

(41:11):
his natural charisma, his natural ten mannerisms and tendencies, his
uh work great, everything points towards him being a heel
at this point, and he's just gonna have to you know,
learn and grow and develop into that baby face type
role and you know, implements more of those moves that
a babyface does into his matches.

Speaker 3 (41:33):
Yeah, those are great points. He does sort of steal
wrestle like a heel, and yeah, that's a great point.
Add on to that, Brian, I'm on back to you.
Did you have another fall for or question on on Orton? Uh,
that's the one's on thing.

Speaker 12 (41:47):
But I just wanted to ask about Keg of Bryan's push. Sure,
he's been getting way at the way to win and
you know stream and everything, but so have two questions. One,
why is this happening into how far did you see
him going?

Speaker 2 (42:04):
You know, because of his size.

Speaker 3 (42:05):
And everything, you know what with Brian's push, I think
that he really handled himself well after he was released,
and I think he proved himself to WV as being
the type of guy they can really put some uh
put some some juice behind and really get behind him
as a good, a good solid individual to have on

(42:28):
the roster. And I think that the issue that he's
going to run into is that right now he's almost
slotted as sort of that that opening match guy. You know,
he's the guy that's gonna come out have that great
opening match, gonna set the tone for the rest of
the pay per view. Unfortunately, the times it's been the
high point of pay per views recently, especially Survivors series,

(42:48):
that pay per view peaked early with that Brian, that
Brian Debasty match, almost that they almost could have put
that match later on the show so that the pay
per view did not peak early. But he but Brian
because he is such a good worker, but because he's undersized,
he's almost slotted himself as the opening match guy, having
a great match to start the pay per view. So

(43:09):
I mean, so, Brian, to you on this, why do
you see the w has got behind Daniel Bryant, Brian
Daniels and Daniel Bryant, And what's your take on how
much upside he has in WW.

Speaker 6 (43:23):
You know, I think he could have if they would
seeing their mentality a little bit, I think he could
have tremendous upside to the main event level status. He
like you said, he is the guy that's carrying the
pay per views right now, but he's putty being put
on the first or second matches on the card, and
traditionally the first match in the card is really the
second most important behind the main event. That's the one
that really needs to get the crowd started and kicked off.

(43:45):
The problem is his matches have been too good. That's
when the crowd is really peaked for the event, and
you know he's gonna He's the guy that I think
could could main events and could carry a lot of
rest for sure to some good matches. The problem is
he's going to be a little bit undersized, and if
they would be willing to change their mentality that you

(44:08):
know that we don't have to push some big monster
guys all the time. We could push smaller guys like
Evan Bourne, caval and you guys with Seawn Michael size
and pushed them to the top and not always have
to rely on the big monster guys. You could easily
have Brian Danielson, Daniel Bryan in the main events and
you know, you're it would really raise the caliber of

(44:30):
your pay per view events and UFC is doing that.
And another thing that w W could learn from us is,
you know, guys like George Saint Pierre and Josh Kotchik
can main event and carry a pay per view by
themselves even though they're a little bit undersized.

Speaker 3 (44:43):
Yeah, it's about, you know, president the personality in making
that a wrestler and this game. Daniel Brian seem like
he's on the level, you know, it seems like he's
a main event star just and not discredit him just
because they're undersized. He doesn't fifty the triple AH body
size or body type, and he doesn't have a you know,

(45:03):
ten years of being you know, a national television But
you can take a time like Daniel Bryant and market
him as a tough fighter and people paying money to
see and have a match. You know, it's I know,
it goes against the grain of everything seems to believe
in nowadays about the entertainment value and Michael Cole heals
on Daniel Bryant because he's nerdy and doesn't understand who

(45:27):
he is, and and that sort of I think, you know,
obviously that's that's play there for TV, and that's a
sort of you know, embellished by Cole to kind of
play off his heeled character. But I don't think that
that's a far stretch from the mentality in WW, especially
backsta Asia at Inner Circles, so they can really get
behind him and make some money with him. I think

(45:48):
people would pay money to see him have some really
compelling fights, and I just I wonder when that time
will come, and it will be interesting to see if
in two or three years we're you know, he's at
Chris bin Wacke character who's may even in pay per views,
and he never really thought he would ever may have
be in a pay per view. I mean, been wat
had a great run I thought in two thousand and

(46:09):
four when he became champion and what is SummerSlam against
Randy Orton. They had a really good matchup in a
really good feud building towards that. So, you know, could
he be the next bin Law? I mean, I think so,
and I think He's a safer bet in that area
and I'd be interesting to see how his career progresses.
But I think there behind him and just be a

(46:29):
matter of whether they get behind him as a main ventor,
and that will be interesting. That's gonna be an interesting
story to follow and in the next year or so,
I'm I would a great to have you on the show.
Thanks for calling in his first time caller.

Speaker 13 (46:42):
Me an extra dose of positivity in your wrestling podcasts.
Will come join me Alan fourrel over in the Progress
Paradise at Peter George vip As. We mask on the
bright side of wrestling and focus on some of the
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(47:02):
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(47:25):
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Speaker 3 (47:47):
And now let's go to another phone call. Let's go
to the nine to one oh eerie code nine one oh.
Welcome to the show. Please say your name and where
you're from.

Speaker 10 (47:56):
Hey, yeah, this is an Hannibal from my FAVMKW.

Speaker 3 (47:59):
Y'all doing good, Hannibal? How's your Thanksgiving? Yeah?

Speaker 10 (48:03):
Yelled whim pretty good?

Speaker 3 (48:04):
How much owls? I was good?

Speaker 9 (48:06):
Brian?

Speaker 3 (48:06):
Now how did you just go? I've got talked to you
about it.

Speaker 6 (48:08):
I was Yeah, mine was good as well. And see
facts still having something right now?

Speaker 3 (48:14):
But there you got there? You got nice, Hannibal. You
what do you have first? Say?

Speaker 10 (48:20):
Okay, yes you know that dude they had between what
jebjer and Kurt Angle, I'm gonna tell you would have
fit better instead of Vola kurd Angle. I think they
could have really elevated while Robber Root in place of
the few NFT and you know, at the next criple
of HS, which I'll take on that right there.

Speaker 3 (48:35):
Yeah, you know, it's so amazing to be amazing to
me about Robert Rude because I remember in the Fox
Sports Net era this is O four I was writing
about this guy is the next the next big heavyweight
star in TNA, and it seems like he's been stuck
at the same level. I mean, I think he's been

(48:56):
a little bit more elevated. I mean it's old with
TNA because t and A their platform is small. They're
not really relevant on a big scale, so how much
upper mobility can't really have in TNA. But that says
I think that route has kind of been stuck a
little bit at the same level throughout his career in TNA.
He just has not been given an opportunity to have

(49:18):
that breakout singles run or just a singles program, you know,
just just a program where he can shine as an individual.
He's been involved beer money and AMW forever. It seems
like Brian when you look at Robert Rooney, even Torch
readers were getting behind him as a singles wrestler. When
did uh, you know, who's your top five heavyweights or

(49:39):
just top five stars to build around In TNA, Robert
Rude was up there pretty good as one of the
top singles guys get behind. So, Brian's you on this?
What's your take on Robert Rude? And uh, you know
when and if do you think he'll get his big
singles bush.

Speaker 6 (49:56):
I think he certainly do, certainly deserving of a bush.
And you know, your your analogy is very accurate. He's
been in the same slot at the top of the
taking title rankings for six to eight years now, just
with different partners, different teams. I really enjoy his team
with Jane Storm in the fact, I think Storm has
as much or maybe even more upside potential than what

(50:19):
Root does. At this point, if you've gone to a
house show that that Storm has worked on, he's usually
given some night time. He does a great job talking
in front of fans, but you know, fans of the
product on TV or pay per view rarely ever get
to hear him talk or speak, you know. And so
those are two guys that they could really either be
building taketing division around or the singles division around. If

(50:42):
you wouldn't you know, get out of the mentality that
if you have to be a former WWE star w
CW star to main event pay per views for t NA,
these are these are guys. Machine Guns are two more
guys that could be pushed to at the top and
that it would give DNA. It's certainly a fresh feel
compared to WWE.

Speaker 3 (51:01):
And I think that, you know, if you're looking for
ways to utilize veterans, whether it's Rick Flair, Kevin Nash, whoever,
I think that the way to utilize him in an
effective way would be to have Flair be involved with
Robert Rude. Not in a I'm gonna cut every promo
for you, I'm gonna come down a ring side and
all eyes on Ric Flair, but it's sort of a

(51:23):
you know, the way Rodnie Piper was used to elevate
a the title and be the Survivors series and see
the the John Cena, Raanny Orton, Wade Barrett issue. When
you bring in a Piper and you have him involved
with some of your your younger stars, it makes him
seem more on the level, more relevant, more of a
big deal, you know. So I think if you brought

(51:45):
in Ric Flair to be involved with Robert Rud in
that way to make Rude seem relevant, but not to
take attention away from Rude, not to have Rudy. You know,
Rick Flair Junior, which they did with AJ Styles. I
think that's slily hurt him this year. I think he's
recovered from that, but I think that hurt him Earler
this year. When you can use the veterans to stay
to endorse, you know, to give that endorsement, but not
to overshadow, That's I think what Robert Route needs. And

(52:08):
when when when Rick Flair is overshadowing an entire group.
You know, Kaz who I don't think is over, James Storm,
who could be a really big deal for TNA, Robert
Rud who could have some really great singles, matches AJ Styles,
Who's I mean that's AJ Styles. I think Flair overshadows
a lot of those guys. It's not like JJ Dillon
hanging around with with a totally and arn and Flair

(52:29):
and the Andersons. You know, it's it's it's Rick Flair.
He's more over that entire group. So I'm just seeing
it's such backwards, it's a backwards mentality.

Speaker 10 (52:39):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (52:39):
But I think that Robert Rud's gonna find a way
to stand out. I think that. I think they did
that with Matt Morgan when they had him split off
and he's been his own guy on on TNA TV,
and they're using Flair to endorse him because Flair is
now feeling against him, but Morgan is still allowed to
stand out. And I did not to help Morgan as
an individual. I thought it was a mistake for the

(53:00):
beginning to put him with Fortune. Uh So I'm glad
that they've they've got away from that. But Brian, what's
your take on rude As in terms of, you know,
could he be a champion for TNA? I mean, what's
kind of his his ceiling and doesn't depend on how
to utilize him as a singles wrestler.

Speaker 6 (53:20):
I think he could be a champion. He could be
definitely championship material. He you know, his he may not
be a long term main event type player like a
Shawn Michaels was, but he certainly could be a guy
like a Curt Henning type of character where he was
at the top of the title picture or held the
secondary title belt and it was pushed in a main

(53:42):
event level status. And he's a guy that they could
really get behind it. He's very good on promost, has
a ton of working ability, just a guy that's, you know,
another homegrown talent that feels fresh because he hasn't appeared
on ww TV, And that's I think why Torch fans
Torch raiders are getting behind him. He's a guy that
you know, hasn't been pushed to the main event level

(54:02):
status before, and they're in we're dying to see somebody
fresh and somebody knew take a shot or give a
shot to to run with the belt in the main
you know, in the main event and in that type
of level program. And tn A is one of the
biggest critics criticisms I have with them is they've done
absolutely nothing as far as promoting or elevating some of
their guys, especially the younger homegrown type talent like the

(54:26):
like the Storms and the Ruts and some of those
guys to a level above them, beyond what they were
four five years ago.

Speaker 3 (54:32):
Yep, yep, yeah, I mean Ruts. I think Rud's on
the same level. I mean, obviously he's drown as t
and A has grown, however much they have grown on
a on a small scale, but I think he's about
on the same level he was in k and A itself. So, uh, Hannibal,
back to you, ay fell thoughts on rude or another question?

Speaker 10 (54:51):
Okay, yeah, all the next question too, right here, this
right here? Okay, why is it they rather want to
keep you know, Orlando Jordan round? I know where they
can get, you know, Shelton Mincheament, sheltonvisimal was the biggest
thought in Atlanta Jordan w W.

Speaker 3 (55:04):
Lee. Well, Vince Russo doesn't know who Shelton Benjamin is.
So there's a problem on a on a serious I
think that Bishop and and Hogan they they they see
something in in Orlando Jordan more than they do and
perhaps showing Benjamin they I mean, Orlando Jordan was brought
in beginning of the year along with a lot of
other Uh. I mean, I don't think Jordan's a retread,

(55:27):
but I think that he was brought in with a
lot of retreads, and so he's kind of lumped into
that category from the first of the year. Nasty as
Valvenis guys like that. He was on that that Australian
tour with Bischoff and Hogan, so he's got that in
Shelton Benjamin more of a fringe guy. He was kind
of he came along at the end of the the
attitude era, and maybe they don't see a lot of

(55:47):
personality or character. They don't see much marketability with him.
They don't see him as a guy they could really
draw with, rightfully or wrongfully.

Speaker 9 (55:56):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (55:56):
But Brian, if you could have a choice between Orlando
Jordan or Shelton Benjamin on your ross or who.

Speaker 9 (56:00):
Would you have.

Speaker 6 (56:02):
No doubt Shelton Benjamin. I think he's much more talented athletically,
much better ring performer, you know, more gifted on the mic.
But he's the problem is, like you nailed it on
the head, James, he's not in the favor of the
guys that are in the key decision making programs right now.
And when you've got Orlando Jordan's he's kind of filling
a niche for TNA right now in the role that

(56:25):
they have designed for him. And certainly Shelton Benjamin I
don't think would be as good in that role. But
if you're looking at just a real strong performer guy
that could give you a good matches in and now
do itself, Benjamin's much much more talented than what Orlando
Jordan will be.

Speaker 3 (56:42):
Yeah, him, We'll appreciate the call. Good hear from you,
have to be Thanksgiving to you. Let's go to our
final phone call today. This is from the seven to
seven eight area code. Seven seven eight. Welcome to the show.
Please say your name and where you're from. Let's go.
Let's try it. There we go, seven seven eight. You're
on the line.

Speaker 7 (57:01):
Hey Jason for Vancouver.

Speaker 3 (57:03):
Hey Jason, it's a Friday. That means we get to
hear from you today. How are you doing?

Speaker 10 (57:07):
Yeah?

Speaker 14 (57:08):
Good?

Speaker 3 (57:08):
Good?

Speaker 7 (57:08):
How was the guy Thanksgiving?

Speaker 3 (57:10):
H You know, it was good other than football, but
I think Bryan, you had a pretty good You're still
in luncheon on the Thanksgiving dinners. That's good and that
was good. Yeah again with Jason. What do you have
first on here non Thanksgiving week for you in Canada? Yeah?

Speaker 7 (57:27):
Well, first, I didn't get to watch Impact yet. I
have it on my TV. I'm gonna watch it when
I got off book tonight.

Speaker 3 (57:33):
But I want to talk.

Speaker 7 (57:34):
I don't know if you have you guys watched explosion
at all?

Speaker 3 (57:38):
No, I mean we don't get it here in the US.
I mean, and I don't know where it airs. I should,
but I mean I'm pretty sure it airs on syndication
in Florida, and if it still does, I mean, I
know it's international, but no, I haven't watched Explosion other
and you know bits and pieces of what they put
online in the last six months or so.

Speaker 7 (57:59):
Yeah, well, I think it comes on every Thursday or Friday.
They put it online. And I ended up watching the
match last night with Serta and Taylor Wilde, and it
was a really good match. Like the match went about
ten minutes. They gave the girl time to rustle. You
saw moves that you usually don't see on a regular
women's match, and I'm just wondering. I know, when Taylor

(58:19):
came in, they gave her a great push, and I
always liked as a rustler, But ever.

Speaker 3 (58:24):
Since Hogan and Ripoff came in, it's like.

Speaker 7 (58:27):
You barely see her on TV. She barely ruffled or anything.
And I'm just wondering, what's the deal with that.

Speaker 3 (58:32):
The simple answer is that they don't fit the beautiful
people model. You know, they Hogan and Bischoff have had
and Russo have pushed the models the divas on TV.
I mean, there's been a little bit of shift toward
a little bit of a shift lately. It was sort
of that nicky terror thing. But that's more, Well, we
got for more would be stars on our show. You

(58:53):
know that that mentality that's sort of pervasive and TNA.
But Brian, what's your take on why we don't get
to see more of those those quality women's wrestling matches
on GNA Impact.

Speaker 6 (59:05):
But well, they've want some of the quality women's wrestlers
for one thing. You know, you don't have the nickey
eat their you know Cam anymore. You don't have her
on there. You've lost on some kung and in your right, James,
they've gone to more of that models type formula that
WWE has. Just that mentality is it is permeated over

(59:25):
to TNA. They want to basically want to copy what
ww is doing and instead of offering some fresh alternative
that they used to offer, you know, two three years ago,
you know, they're back into this mindset that you have
to look a certain way to get on TV. And
that's that's the only people that they're pushing.

Speaker 3 (59:43):
Yeah, and that's unfortunate because they that was one of
their strengths was that when's a vision. It helped to
separate them from w B.

Speaker 5 (59:51):
It was nice. Second, it was.

Speaker 3 (59:53):
A nice marketing. It was a nice marketable. Uh, you know,
it's just sort of a niche marke Kill Bowl division
they had, you know, there was a really strong division.
They they low balled Gail Kim and it's been They
got rid of Dutch Mantel, who have helped start the
Knockout Division and it's been downhill ever since. And uh,
you know McKeon terror had a pretty good brawl at

(01:00:15):
the last pay per view. But I think that they
were given that spotlight just because their former w B
runs stars they were on TV in w B, but
Taylor Wilde and Serena. They put them in sort of
uh I guess, uh, sort of background roles, and uh,
they're not being featured like they were, you know, just uh,

(01:00:37):
you know last year this time so well, they weren't
really feature that much last year. But coming to the
beginning of eight, I'm sorry, the beginning of nine and
the n of eight and uh, it's just it's been
a it's been enough feel bad for that division, and
I think that's hurt. I think that's one reason of
many why ratings have been down this year is the
way they presented that that former ratings drawing women's a vision.

(01:01:00):
So Jason, we're on the last twenty seconds so don't
have time to get to you for follow up, and
appreciate you joining us today and thanks everyone for listening
to the live cast today. Brian, you and I will
stick around for some second stalary discussion. Are awesome twenty
years ago flashback. Everyone tuned in again on Monday at
seven o'clock Eastern. Until then, this is Torch Assistant editor

(01:01:21):
James Cadwell sign it off.

Speaker 1 (01:01:24):
If you missed it earlier. Just a reminder we're running
our second VIP sale of the year. We don't do
these often, take advantage of it now. It is a
limited time offer. Take nine dollars off a VIP subscription
a one month, three month or one year sub It
brings the one month sub down to just three dollars
in ninety nine cents. The coupon code is n o
V twenty twenty five as in November n V twenty

(01:01:44):
twenty five, and that takes nine dollars off. When you
check out on our sign up form pw Torch dot
com slash go vi Ip gives you full details on
membership benefits and links to our sign up form.

Speaker 3 (01:02:12):
Thank you for using blog Talk Radio. Goodbye, all right, Brian.
We're now in the v IP after so portion of
today's show and glad to have you on the show today,
Brian after Thanksgiving. Thanks for joining me today and uh
uh before we get in the stalis, it's just a
couple other things we'll touch on kind of Kerne e
Vince before we jump into some morning for a sort

(01:02:34):
of our twenty years ago flashback discussion. I don't believe
we're talking about this from the live cast, Brian, But
who do you think is the next sort of young
star to hold to kind of get that first major
title victory? Who we kind of we saw the maz
on Monday. We have a pull up on pebetorch dot
com with some choice like choices like del Rio and Morrison.

(01:02:55):
Who do you think is that the next you know,
sort of young star hasn't had kind of pay per
b yet type star who will hold a major championship
for the first time in w.

Speaker 6 (01:03:07):
I think it's gonna come off the SmackDown brand. You know,
they they've got Cane holding the belt and you know
he's doing the best that he can. He's just I
think he's forty three now and passed his prime, pass
his drawing teak, and fans really aren't getting into that character.
I think it's gonna be on that brand, and there
probably could be somebody like del Rio who carries himself

(01:03:29):
like a star and has that type of main event
level type charisma. I think he would be a good choice.
He hasn't headline in the US before, he'd be a
fresh act. There really isn't anybody that I can see
on that roster that would be as good as choice
as him to carry the belt. And you know, let's
unless you're going to qualify the US or intercatinent titles

(01:03:51):
as major belt that would look for the world title
to eventually go to del Rio's.

Speaker 3 (01:03:57):
Yeah, right now, he's still leading that pole.

Speaker 15 (01:04:00):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (01:04:00):
He is leaving that poll uh that we put up today,
and he was one of the top choices from right
in U feedback that we got into question to day
him along with John Morrison. Morrison was gonna surprise to
me how many people uh put him in that category
of being a future world champion in Dov dev I
don't see it yet, Ryan, do you see it? As
you know in the on the next six months, a year,

(01:04:23):
two years. Does Morrison have world title adobebe title? Uh capability?
Right now? Do you see them putting a major championship
on him?

Speaker 9 (01:04:35):
Uh?

Speaker 6 (01:04:35):
Not a major one?

Speaker 3 (01:04:36):
You know.

Speaker 6 (01:04:37):
I think he's got a lot of he's got a
great look, he's got unique athletic ability. He just doesn't
have that hit factor that they're looking for in their
campions And I think it's eventually he made you'velot that
or be able to train it, because he's he's a
heck of an athlete. Uh and and you know good
inside the ring, but he's you know, you look at

(01:04:58):
him and the mizlhere when they were the tank team,
I think most people would have said Morrison would have
been the guy that would have came out of that
as the big star. And it's actually been the miss
because he's been much better on the MIC. He's much
better at selling the pay per views and selling himself
as a major star and becoming a star. And that's
where Morrison is lacking is he's just not had that
the ability to sell himself as a major star like

(01:05:21):
the Min's house.

Speaker 3 (01:05:22):
Yep. I yeah, there's something missing, and I know that,
you know, based on this recent TV kind of started
with with the Christ Jericho program, continued to the Shameless deal.
They're they're trying to make him a tougher act, you know,
kind of give a little bit of an edge to him,
make him seem more physical and more just sort of
a grittier babyface. Kind of the different camera angles that

(01:05:44):
they've shown and the different ways they presented him, it
seems like they tried to give him a little bit
more of an edge, you know, using that's going to
eventually lead to a higher place in the car. Do
you think maybe we'll see him in a in a
position to fill in for on Seen It perhaps while
Gina's kind of selling this this fire storyline, I mean,

(01:06:05):
does Morrison does he Has he shown enough in the
last couple of months where you think they'll have confidence
in him to maybe, you know, have a TV made
event here and there.

Speaker 6 (01:06:15):
I would have confidence saying to put him in a
main event slot on TV, uh, because he certainly can
carry himself well enough inside the ring. My biggest problem
with Morrison is his inability to get himself over. As
a start. He's got the look of a star, no
doubt about it. He's got the moves of a start.
He just doesn't have that charisma or the way he

(01:06:36):
presents himself as that main event level start and that's
the thing that's really holding him back at this point.
Otherwise he's got, you know, two out of the three intangibles.
They need maybe need to give him some more MC
time and you know, ability and time for him to
get himself over and and really that's the thing he's
lacking right now.

Speaker 3 (01:06:55):
Yeah, yeah, and I don't know, you know, some of
it's just one of those things where you need more time.
You know, it's gonna take more time, and uh, a
lot of guys you just you just don't need to
push him that hard. You know, You've got to give
him little bit of time to uh the sort of mature,
it's a mature into being a top star. So you know,

(01:07:16):
we'll see, you know, we'll see it. Might it might
you know, two years from now we might be talking about, uh,
you know, we might be talking about Morrison as a
perennial MAINI ventures. So we'll see. You know, he's one
of the things. You've got to give him time. You
have to give him time, especially in Morrisons, such a
delicate character. Because he's not really that over has a
tough act. He's sort of a prety boy baby Face,

(01:07:39):
doesn't really have their hard edge. He doesn't have that
Brian Danielson offense. He's got kind of finesse offense, and
they're trying to make him it seems less finesse and
more hard edge. So we'll see all that takes for
that to kind of settle in. But right, let's go
ahead and talk about, uh, what's talking of the ring
real quick before before we get to some nostalgia and
twenty years go flaspect King of the Ring this this

(01:08:03):
Monday in a three hour show. You already have four
qualifiers from raw will find out the next four qualifiers
on SmackDown tonight. Who is your favorite from the ross
side to win that King Ring tournament? And what's your
overall take on them bringing back one of their you know,
nineteen nineties concepts that KNA lost a little bit of
steam in the two thousands, became a TV special in

(01:08:24):
the mid two thousands, and now kind of being brought
back almost in it almost nostalgic wise, because it has
been about a year and a half and has been
on pay per view in a couple of years. What's
you're taking them bringing back King of the Ring.

Speaker 6 (01:08:38):
You know, from a historical standpoint, it was a vehicle
that we've used to elevate a guy from one level
to another, you know, basically from Nick Cart's status to
main event level status. Nineteen ninety three, Brett Hart wins it,
and he had already been world champion, but I think
it elevated himself into another level that he deserves to
be at, that main event status. And that's hope. What

(01:09:00):
they're going to be able to do with somebody here
on Monday night is traditionally tournaments have drawn very well
on TV. Maybe not just a one night tournament, but
if they presented over a series of three to four
nights or three to four weeks in this case, that's
a way to get television rings pop. And I think
they may be missing the boat a little bit by
not having that type of a tournament. But if you

(01:09:22):
look at the guys that are in it, you know,
if you wanted a guy to be pushed to another level,
not only does he have to win this tournament, he
has to be continued afterwards to be pushed.

Speaker 9 (01:09:33):
At that main event level.

Speaker 6 (01:09:34):
That so fans don't consider it to be a fluke,
and I you know, I'd like a guy like Brian
Danielson to have a chance to do that because he's
got he's got all the tools. In fact, I think
he's been a big surprise on the microphone and his charisma.
That was one knock that he had on the indie scene.
And it looks to me like he's he can carry
the ball with just about anybody.

Speaker 3 (01:09:55):
Yeah, yeah, what's going to move in nostalgia? And uh,
the news today about Bobby Heenan, uh sort of a
I guess you know, in the last hour or so,
come across some new information that perhaps he's not not
hospitalized and he's recovering but earlder. Today there was some

(01:10:16):
news that came from from Lenny Popo who said that
it seemed like Heenia might have on his last legs.
But your your take on heena and sort of the
sort of the sad news about his health and it
seems like it's such an up and down thing from
week to week. It seems like, what's your take on
on Heenan and his situation?

Speaker 6 (01:10:37):
You know, he's battled to so much adversity with all
the cancer that he's had and the radiation treatments, and
you know that he lost his voice because of it.
He can't speak. They had to do the restructuring and
the surgery on his job because of all the radiation
that destroyed his job.

Speaker 3 (01:10:52):
Bone.

Speaker 6 (01:10:53):
He's you know, you know, it's so hard to see
such a guy who was such a great talker, such
a very funny man, and uh really has to come
to these health problems. But you know, he's gonna he's
battling this and he's gotten better in a lot of accounts,
but he's still certainly not out of the woods. And
you know, our hope is that he's gonna make some

(01:11:13):
sort of recovery and and get back to normal health.

Speaker 3 (01:11:17):
Yeah. I hope so too. You know, I hope that
is the case. And UH, we'll see, you know, we'll
we'll see. But obviously, you know, up and down, up
and down will continue to monitor and and uh and
see how that turns out. So best wooses to heenan
on that front. Uh, Brian is some news and notes
in your nostalgia column in this week's Storge newsletter. UH

(01:11:39):
Nashville Fairgrounds, UH Speender Brothers and Rick Flair coming to Canada. Uh,
the Waterloo Hall of Fame with that announcement coming last week,
I had, you know, a lot, a lot of great
notes in the Waterloo Hall of Fame as well as
Blizzard Brawl six, which is I guess coming up in
December with Matt Hardy back on the independent scene. Uh,

(01:11:59):
take a bit about some of the news and notes
you had this week, and especially the Waterloo Hall of
Fame and whether that was that coming up in July.
Is that right up in July this year or next year?

Speaker 6 (01:12:10):
Yeah, the Waterloo. They've changed actually the date of July
twenty second and twenty third, so it's a Friday Saturday
affair and they've revamped the Saturday line up a little bit.
On Friday, they'll continue to have the wrestling program that
night in last year Austin Ares wrestled on it. In
previous years at Kurtenning's Sun wrestled on Joe Henning, who's

(01:12:33):
down in WW so I think gets some pretty good
guys there at the event on Saturday. They changed before man.
As I mentioned, they're going to have the roundtable discussion
in the afternoon, which I hosted last year and will
host again this year, they're also going to have a
fan fest type meet and greet where you can interact
with a lot of the guys who are being inducted

(01:12:54):
in some of the names or Jim Ross will be
there this year, Jim Dugan, Joy Funks Jr. Will be there.
Ril Monson is being inducted as well. Obviously won't be there.
Uh So a lot of the big names from from
Rustling of today will be in attendance. That's one of
the requirements of the Hall of Fame. If you're going
to be inducted, you have to be there to accept

(01:13:14):
your own induction. Uh And that is, like I said,
that's one of their requirements. There'll be all kinds of
other stars on hand who live in the area that
will be driving in. You know, guys like Baron von
Rescue and Matt Dog Mishan always come in, a lot,
a lot of guys that from that area that will
be making a trip on that night. So we'll be
a banquet which will serve as the induction ceremony itself.

(01:13:37):
So it's a little bit of a change. And they've
had the induction during the day, the banquet that night,
and they're going to combine it into one event, so
it'll have much more of a special feel to that
I think by by doing it that way, and some
of the other things that you mentioned. Rick Flair is
doing some sort of a question and answer session in
Winnipeg at you Attendent Wrestling's coming back into into Wisconsin

(01:14:03):
area December sixth. Matt Hardy is wrestling on that card
against mister Anderson. So you know, quite a few things
happening as far as independent wrestling as well.

Speaker 1 (01:14:14):
Anytime you're watching WWE Raw or SmackDown or aw Dynamite
in particular, send us an email if you've got thoughts
on the show or a topic you want us to
address or a question for us. Wadekeller Podcast at pwtorch
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us to address on our main podcast during our mailbank segments,

(01:14:37):
that same email applies Wade Keller Podcast at pw torch
dot com. We invite that interaction. Let us know what
you think of what we're saying, and let us know
what you want us to talk about and ask us
specific questions. Wadekeller podcast at pw Torch dot com.

Speaker 3 (01:14:53):
Yeah, and I'll be very interested to see how hard
you look, Sir, kind of hear about how he looks
return to independence. He hasn't been on TV for do
ee and oh what a month and a half, almost
two months now, so it will be really interesting to
see how he looks and how he wrestles. Is hard
into it, is he collecting the paycheck? Is he revitalized

(01:15:16):
and looking to the talents back and prove people wrong.
So it'll be very interested in seeing. I guess that's
next weekend, so be interested to see what those reports
are coming out of a Matt Hargin's return to to wrestling.
So Rian, let's go ahead and talk about our twenty
years ago flashback and then this one has packed. This
has a lot of good stuff in it, including our

(01:15:38):
good friend Ray Brams and with the latest with Old
Herb and this is from November twenty ninth, nineteen ninety
Clash the Champions recap Onie Anderson involved in the news.
I also have some news on Kurt Henting Mister Perfect
taking the inter Continental title from Kerry von Eric because
WWF was not happy with Von Eric who was wrestling

(01:15:59):
in his Texas Tornado. You also have some wake. Kiler
actually had an editorial on OLDIERR. B Abrams, so herb
was giving a lot of ink in this issue and
noticed some of the more ridiculous things that he had
done as a booker for UWF. And also there was
some live event reports from WF. Brian, what kind of
jumps out at you from this issue? Newswise or live

(01:16:23):
events or Babrahms, what kind of jumps out are you
from this issue? Well?

Speaker 6 (01:16:27):
I think the biggest thing there, James, from the long
term repercussions of the industry is Owie Anderson being replaced
his booker of WCW, because that would open up the
era for Dusty Rhodes to come in. And of course
he went ahead and pushed his son Dustin in nineteen
ninety one as we you know, kind of flashed forward ahead.
That was a major change. I think for WCW. They

(01:16:49):
brought in, like I said, Dusky, who had a great
mind for the business. Biggest knox was he pushed himself
and ended up pushing his son Dustin, who you know
definitely had some talents but probably benefited more than a
lot of guys would have from having their father as
a booker. That's probably the biggest thing that jumps out
at me as far as long term rathmistications of difference.

(01:17:10):
Of course, you know, anything herb Abram's done is interesting
to talk about, but doesn't have a lot of significance
towards the business either. Yeah, you know, you have a
recap of the class and champions, all these I think
fun to go back and read the analysis of what
went on and why and of course who won into

(01:17:30):
the lost.

Speaker 3 (01:17:32):
Yeah, well, let's go and break that down. And also
one other note in here was a Sportatorium and it
ran its last show here in Dallas. Let's talk about
that after we run down the clash the champions card.
But you open it up with the free Birds because
this was let's go to recap the background Tuesday, November
November twentieth from Jacksonville as the Veterans and more of

(01:17:53):
Coliseum and they've been running shows there for a while.
They had a SmackDown tape in there this week. So
that's twenty yeah, twenty years later, the Free Birds be
the Southern Boys in a five minute match. Sting had
an interview with Tony Shiavanni, Brian Pellman beat Buddy Landell.
Let's go and scroll down the page and where do it? Well,

(01:18:15):
hold on a second, Let's go ahead and find let's
find where it went on the newsletter. Here, here we go,
Big Cat Curris Hughes had a show in here beat
Brad Armstrong. In the third match, Tom zinc z Man
over Brian Lee and v K wall Street a Microtunda
over the star Blazer Brian Who is the star Blazer?

Speaker 6 (01:18:40):
I can't remember who it was. I have no idea.

Speaker 3 (01:18:43):
I thought, maybe, uh, maybe you do. I've never seen
that name before. Wow, And this is the fifth match
in the card. He beat it the Starblazer on We'll
look that up and find out who that was. Matt
six was Ray Apollo and Ted Petty defeating Halua and
the Beast, which was Larry Hamilton and Bill tab Names

(01:19:04):
and nobody has never really heard of since then Lux
Lueger over the Motor City mad Man and uh Bryant
who was a MotorCity Madman? Do you do you remember?

Speaker 6 (01:19:15):
I remember the match, but I couldn't tell you who
the guy's name was. He never caught on with the
with the organization. Again, I don't think in a meaningful way.

Speaker 3 (01:19:23):
Yeah, this was way Wade ready to the dud so
uh that might have been called the end of his career.
Boy Sam Muchnik actually had an appearance on this right
before Luger and MotorCity Madman. Uh. Sam Muchuk asked everyone
to join him in St. Louis for Starcase, so uh
Muchnik was on this.

Speaker 16 (01:19:44):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (01:19:44):
Then you had the Nasty Boys over the Renegade Warriors.
Uh renegade Warriors? Who are who?

Speaker 6 (01:19:50):
Who is that of young buds? Were were the warriors?
They were marked? And uh my nip was Mark and
Jay who wrestled as uh Warrior brothers.

Speaker 3 (01:20:01):
Okay, yeah, I wonder when they went by the Renegade Warriors?
Would you do you remember the backstory on that name change?

Speaker 6 (01:20:08):
You know, I don't know why they were called that.
I guess I didn't.

Speaker 3 (01:20:11):
I don't.

Speaker 6 (01:20:11):
I don't remember the backstory of it. I think it
was kind of an insignificant story though.

Speaker 3 (01:20:15):
Yeah. Well, this card is uh, this card is lined
up to be a royal real bad one because we
have our main event, Sid Vicious spend the night Stalker, Brian,
do you remember who the next Stalker was Yeah, it.

Speaker 6 (01:20:33):
Was Brian Clark who was wrestled in Smoking Mountain Wrestling
and some independence as the night Stalker. You know, he
was giving the next gimmick and before he went to
WWE in ninety three as Adam Bomb.

Speaker 3 (01:20:51):
Okay, yeah, and uh yeah. This match was rated negative
three stars by Wade, So yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:20:58):
I think there's the overall car could have been rated
negative card length of film and Landelle match was really
the only good match with the probably easily the best
match on the entire card.

Speaker 3 (01:21:09):
This was well, let's go ahead and look at the scorecard.
The Torch staff average score was a four, with scores
ranging from a three to a five and a half.
Average readers score was a four and a half, ranging
from two to seven. Was the uh what was I read?
One great sign sound bite? Bill Kunkle said it was

(01:21:30):
the single most chaotic, most dumbfounding collection of Evince that
I've ever seen on a wrestling show. And Wade said,
as one insider said, this was an example of Oie
Anderson taking his money and running. You better run fast
because a lot of fans are not happy with the show.
W CW better hope for poor radios whe they can
write off the next month of house shows in Starkad

(01:21:52):
the beginning to show to hope. But certainly their talents
or lackterof has certainly caught up with w CW. So
that's was Yeah, that was Clash the Champions nineteen ninety.
This was twenty years ago. That's this car just done
a terrible Brian. Would you kind of agree with that analysis.

Speaker 6 (01:22:11):
Yeah, a terrible card. You know, this is the reason
why OI was removed his booker is he just had
no direction for what.

Speaker 5 (01:22:18):
He was going in.

Speaker 6 (01:22:19):
Suddenly, WW or WCW at this time did not have
the talent depth to be putting on a card of
this magnitude. They really needed to go with fewer matches
but longer matches and developed some of their guys in
the stars instead of putting some of these guys on
there on a Class of Champions type show.

Speaker 3 (01:22:36):
That they have.

Speaker 6 (01:22:36):
But it again, it really went back to Ollie Anderson
and his booking, and that's why one of the reasons
why it was removed.

Speaker 3 (01:22:45):
And also two days later November twenty second to nineteen
ninety Survivor series. I guess this would have been the
fourth Survivor series so the first one was an eighty seven.
This one appears to be slightly better. First was The
Ultimate Warrior and the Lesion at Doom and Texas Tornado
beat Team Demulation and Mints Are Perfect. This was given

(01:23:06):
three and a quarter stars, went over about twenty minutes,
and of course plot meant Warrior was the Ultimate Survivor.
The second match did Bassi and the Undertaker against in
Hockey Talk Mannamed Rag Valentine beat Heart Foundation, dust Rose
and Coocoby Ware. This was the Undertaker's debut and this
was significat. I believe actually we put yeah, we did.
We put up a flashback to this earlier of the

(01:23:29):
week and when we're kind of doing the Survivor series
hype kind of, I believe I did post this this flashback.
So we had this available in text form on pibytorch
dot com in the VIP section. Also Visionaries Rick Martel,
Power and Glory, the Warlord, b Jake Roberts, The Rockers
and Jimmy Snuka. Those are your first three matches. And

(01:23:49):
you had Hult Cogan and Tugboat and the Big boss
Man and Hacksaw Duggan and defeated Earthquake and Diino, Bravo
and the Barbarian and Hakuh. Then you had Team Santino
Tito Santana and the Bushwhackers and Volkov beating Slaughter and
the Oregan Express and Boris Zukov, and then main event
you had the Latim Warrior, Holkogan, Tito Santino Santana beating

(01:24:11):
the Warlord, Roma, Vircules, Hernandez and Martel and dBase, with
of course Ulkogan and Ultimate Warrior being your Ultimate Survivors.
Brian and also Waite. Keller said, the matches went downhill
from the start, so maybe not the better card, but
it seemed like it was a little bit better than

(01:24:31):
w CW's was in terms of star power. Maybe the
matches weren't as great, but Brian, your thoughts on this
Survivor Series number four card, Well.

Speaker 6 (01:24:43):
Here's the thought on wrestling overall in nineteen ninety was,
you know, there's periods in wrestling where we'll have really
great matches, where great workers come about and have terrific
fears and matches, and nineteen ninety is not one of them.
It was one of the really of the lowest periods
in wrestling as far as work great and match quality.
That I can remember. You know, there's few and far

(01:25:03):
between matches that in nineteen ninety that you remember were
being really good or really outstanding matches. You know, when
you consider Stinging and victory over Rick Flair, which wasn't
that grade of a match to be one of the
best matches in the entire year of nineteen ninety at
the Great American Bass nineteen ninety's, that tells you something
about the quality and work rate of that time period

(01:25:25):
or that era. You look at the card that you
just mentioned, the Survivor Series card and the Classy Champions
that we talked about earlier, there's some real duds matches
on there. There's some guys who really don't need or
didn't deserve to be on these cards. But their mentality
at the time was, we're going to run a show
with eleven or twelve matches on it, and the quality

(01:25:48):
is not what we're looking for. We're going to push
having as many matches and wrestlers on the show as
possible with short matches, and none of the matches ended
up being very good. And it was as long after
that that they went back to the formula of seven
or eight matches on a pay per view, and that's
kind of the formula that following today is about six
or seven eight matches on most normal shows because of

(01:26:11):
the fact that if you have too many matches, you're
gonna have matches all be very short and nothing gets ober.

Speaker 3 (01:26:17):
Yeah. You look at that first Survivor Series card in
eighty seven, there were just four matches. There was, you know,
four Survivor Series matches and you called it a night.
So that's obviously that was that's a stark difference from
from nineteen ninety and today and all that changed there.
So yeah, good points in that, Brian. Anything else from
the flashback, Brian, or anything else that we need to

(01:26:39):
talk about before we call it a week, Well, I think.

Speaker 6 (01:26:44):
Here, yeah, I guess not not that much really happening
nostalgia news wise, is that we already haven't covered it,
test James, so we got to knocked out there, you go.

Speaker 3 (01:26:54):
Yeah, we don't have an old school raw that to
talk about. That was kind of fun a little while
ago with Piper, And you know, Piper's gonna be back
at MSG on on the day after Christmas and we'll
get some reports on that and see what he does
with Piper's pid and the kind of a special segment
that they've come up with for their next MSG House show,

(01:27:14):
So that should be pretty interesting and and uh, I
guess we'll hear about that. And we always watched dNaM
pact and get our Nostalagia their so that's uh, that's
always up for grabs. So anyways, DNA. All right, Brian,
glad I you on the show. Have a great weekend,
and we'll talk to you next week.

Speaker 6 (01:27:35):
All right, So I'm good, James, we'll talk again next week.
Thanks guy.

Speaker 3 (01:27:39):
All Right, Brian, that is a Torch Nostalgic Colmas Brian
Hoops Again. You can check out his Nostalagia podcast and
the VP section of the of the Torch v IP section.
Check it out in the audio section, and also his
nostalgia newsletter Calumn and each week's Torch newsletter. So forth
towards Nostalgic Thomas Brian Hoops. This is Torch Assistant editor
James Caldwell. Sign it off.

Speaker 1 (01:28:02):
If you missed it earlier. Just a reminder we're running
limited time offer. Take nine dollars off a VIP subscription
a one month, three month or one year sub It
brings the one month sub down to just three dollars
in ninety nine cents. The coupon code is n o
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(01:28:22):
twenty five, and that takes nine dollars off. When you
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com slash go vi ip gives you full details on
membership benefits and links to our sign up form.

Speaker 3 (01:28:41):
You're listening to the PW Torch Lidcast. This is PW
Torch Assistant editor James Caldwell hosting today on Monday November
twenty nine, twenty ten. Joined today by Torch calembs Bruce Mitchell. Bruce,
how are you today?

Speaker 5 (01:28:55):
I'm just on on Twitter with a sigement? Did you
know there's a three hour raw tonight James and I'm
going and the King.

Speaker 10 (01:29:02):
Of the Ring?

Speaker 5 (01:29:03):
Who will be the King of the Ring.

Speaker 3 (01:29:06):
I'm just I'm fired up.

Speaker 5 (01:29:08):
I mean their house shows are in the toilet and
no one went to Survivor series and no one went
to the SmackDown and raw tapings after that. But so
what they're gonna get a new king, a new king.

Speaker 3 (01:29:19):
You're not excited on one, Fina on the House.

Speaker 5 (01:29:22):
Shows, Bruce, Oh yeah, yeah, well, I mean I told
the story over. I remember twenty five years ago going
to see The Midnight Rider Dusty Rhoads. He went Dusty Roads,
all dressed up like the Midnight Rider, and he just
threw in the towel and didn't do it anymore. And
then he just said, oh, he's not said it anymore.
I remember going to the remember going to the TV

(01:29:44):
taping where they were taping all this, and he walked
out and they brewed the daylightside of him. So something
went forward to for wan Sea or maybe not. Maybe
this will go over, Maybe this will go over big,
Who knows?

Speaker 3 (01:29:55):
Do you think they actually gonna put that on TV
or anything. It's just gonna be a house show thing.

Speaker 5 (01:30:00):
No, he put it on too, of course, but he's
gonna be wan seen under the luchador mask, and Dade
Bear's gonna complain and everybody, and everybody's gonna weak and go, well,
you don't know for sure, and until he knows for sure,
can't do anything about it. So he's so next is
gonna chase him all around like the coyote chase chase
the road runner, and he's never gonna catch him until
finally they're gonna have a match and Watson is gonna

(01:30:21):
win the right for his cousin John Cena to come back. Boy,
it's gonna make a great Saturday Morning cartoon. I'm not
so sure about a grown up wrestling show PG or
not PG.

Speaker 3 (01:30:32):
Uh.

Speaker 9 (01:30:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:30:35):
I don't want to say I grew up on Jimmy
vany because I was growing by the time Jimmy Van
came around. But Charles Brown from out of town, I've
seen this before.

Speaker 3 (01:30:43):
He got was the Mister America with Paul Cogan. A
more recent edition.

Speaker 5 (01:30:49):
Got Red River Jack and Bruis of Brody.

Speaker 3 (01:30:52):
Yeah. Yeah, all the classic all the classic gemmigslong these lines.

Speaker 5 (01:30:57):
So he got the with Bob Armstro I don't know
classics the word, but yeah, this was. This is how
I'm an old Tom con no doubt about it. We'll
see how it work.

Speaker 3 (01:31:04):
Yeah. Also the Miz his first night as w B
champion on tonight's show. Uh, Bruce, how do you think
they're gonna play up with Miz? And uh? Is the
Bubble with Randy Orton. We assume it's gonna lead to
I mean, I'm assuming it's gon lead to a rematch
of the TLC pay per view. What's your your thoughts
on the miss his first night and we're gonna go
with this.

Speaker 5 (01:31:25):
I think you're very perceptive. I think that it will
end up with Randy Orton chasing the Miss. I don't
think we'll get a first time out, but I think
you know, Randy Orton the thirst the title if the
news doesn't, and that's how we're gonna play it. So
this will be running from Randy Ortons.

Speaker 3 (01:31:39):
There you go, yeah, yeah. Do you see them adding
Wade Barracks to the first match that perhaps to create
a three winning match, or do they keep him out
of the picture and have him kind of chase around
with John Cena for a little bit.

Speaker 5 (01:31:52):
I think he chases around Johnson. I would think, I
honestly would be surprised if they threw them into that mix.
I mean, I guess was a way to a way
to make it less of a less attractive pay per
view so that they can keep drawing me these one
hundred and fifty thousand by pay per view shows. But
I just don't know. I think I think why Beardon
Nexus will be fuming at Johnson and that's where their

(01:32:14):
story we'll got a full of off.

Speaker 3 (01:32:16):
Yeah, the ring of the pay per view buys because
be very quietly released their latest monthly figures. I believe
they released someone like either Tuesday night or Wednesday night,
and I was just just gonna have one of those
those thoughts that pop in your head, like let's check
or see if they dropped some business figures before Thanksgiving.
Sure enough, they did, and they released the number for

(01:32:38):
the hell to sell pay per view, which was, you know,
is okay two hundred thousand abouts. You know, we'll see
the exact total when they were report fourth quarter earnings.
But then the bragging rights pay per view below one
hundred and fifty thousand, one of their all time lowest
right there in that easy to come to the what
was that December to December or whatever that pay per
view was in December of five or six whenever that

(01:33:01):
was in that same for.

Speaker 5 (01:33:04):
That ECW off rand whatever it was.

Speaker 3 (01:33:07):
Yeah, yeah, I mean very well, I mean, I'm not
surprised with this number, but then it's your reaction to
that preliminary number coming in below one hundred fifty thousand
buys total.

Speaker 5 (01:33:18):
The biggest story of the year. This is the biggest
story of the year. W's business dropping the way it
house for the entire year, the trend that it's gone
and the way it's gone and starting to show up
at the house shows now start to show up at
television takings. And it's something that they didn't get themselves
into overnight. Who's gonna take as an effort to dig

(01:33:38):
out of it. That's gonna take more than evernight to
dig out of it.

Speaker 3 (01:33:42):
Yeah, yeah, I mean it's been I mean they claim,
you know, we have the center retirement, Sean Michaels and
Natisa left and trip That's all true. It's all true.
But they should have had these contingency plans in place.
You know, it's been a it's been a need for
five years. I've been writing about it till their first
joint staff. You know, it's and you know, they finally

(01:34:04):
came to the realization of, oh my goodness, we don't
have anybody to draw money, but we have John Cena.
Seeing it can't work, we have nobody else. They tried
orton and that hasn't worked. In the House shows. So, uh,
Raymond Cereal.

Speaker 5 (01:34:16):
You know, it's not only that they spent a lot
of time, they spent an awful lot of time denying
what they are, which is a wrestling promotion company, and
trying to and trying to be entertainment, you know, trying
to claim their entertainment, which is what they were all along,
trying to claim this and that and acting like they're
shaying to be a wrestling company, be a wrestling company
and doing all these other things and being entertaining and

(01:34:37):
writing this this bad comedy they're not good at doing,
and and they turned into this, They turned into this
TV show, and they did it years ago. Instead of
being a wrestling company in a wrestling promotion, they turned
into a TV show. Well, guess a lot of TV
shows have a shelf life, and their starters have a
shelf life. And they, you know, they've really not paid

(01:34:57):
attention to their core business in a lot of ways.
Even they work at twenty four to seven, they haven't
looked long term and yeah, I mean this is something
that's this is something that's improving for over a decade.
And they were really helped, you know, they were really
helped by two major well one major company in one
medium company that had a lot of new talent going
out of business that they were able to cherry pick

(01:35:18):
talent out of And now there's no talent in charity pick.
They have to build their own. And they've done a
you know, they've done a real good job of training
their own audience what to accept, what they want them
to accept. And it's you know, it's tough. They don't
have other places to go, they don't have anything, and
you know, and also it's just it's just you know,
going for the rating and going for you know, going

(01:35:40):
for that hot shot, to that hot shot angle all
the time, going for I mean, they look good compared
to the compared to today at a Thanksgiving Turkey dinners,
but only in that sense. And now everything is really
flat and at a time where they've got real competition,
at a time where they've got serious competition. And what
I mean by serious as people take competition fearfully and

(01:36:01):
they don't take WWE seriously. And that's that's not where
you want to be. If you're selling fifty five dollars
a shot pay per views. Yeah, and you want people
to make wear your t shirts. Yeah, you're right, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:36:14):
I mean you mentioned the TNA Thanksgiving Board meeting Deally
bop thingy with Dixie and Hogan and Bishop, and I
just got a kick out of the whole the last
segments where Dixie shows up and for his ens Hogan
with the injunction and Hogan's just as dry as possible,
and Hogan goes, Dixie, we're raising the bar over here,

(01:36:35):
you know, Like it wasn't even like his usual saying.
It was like he's using the sense of he's actually
physically raising a bar, like that's how he delivered. And
I just thought it was the most hilarious. I don't
know if he was intentionally trying to make fun of himself,
but that's why it came across, and that just epitomized
this entire teena of product. I just it was unintentional comedy,
and it's it's not money drawing comedy. Bruce. I mean,

(01:36:57):
you see that show on Thursday. I mean, well, you
know Bryan Hoops and I came on the Life cast
on on Friday. I just had nothing to say about
the show. It's it's just a directionalist product right now
with you say, brus No, I don't know what it is.

Speaker 5 (01:37:11):
I mean, it's a TV this very strange TV show. Yeah,
he's a very strange TV show. That's not all I
could say. And you know, and you gotta love you
gotta love the woman who's beating out the men because
who's got the bigger injunction, who's got who's got the lawyers?
I remember, you know, just to menu it's like I
just remember one that used to be this thought over

(01:37:33):
issues in pro wrestling, and now it's you know, I
don't know. I mean, they don't know what they're doing,
and they they're I mean, I just you know, Doug
Williams is out there given this comedy, these comedy lines
like he's like he's at the improv. I mean, you know,
but you don't. I don't expect I don't expect anymore
out of them. They are what they are. But but
ww this is a real this is not a good

(01:37:55):
time for them, and I don't know what they're going
you know, I don't know what they're going to do,
and I just don't the.

Speaker 3 (01:38:01):
You know, yeah, I mean it's you know TNA. I mean,
my goodness, looking at this last year, you know, we're
gonna we're coming up on the year end and kind
of we're funct in the last year, I mean in TNA,
I would say, in the worst position than they were
this time last year. They were in lock lame duck
period last year, this time waiting for Hogan and Bishop,
and I think they're in a worstyle spot that would be,

(01:38:23):
like you said, it was their business, it's taking a
hit with departures and injuries and just an overall lack
of I guess lack of good business. You know, Michael
Cole being sort of the the the on TV face
of their bad business decisions lately, uh, with the sort
of the direction that behind that character in this year.

(01:38:44):
So yes, it's it's an interesting time. And we're gonna
see this King of the Ring on tonight's show where
they have eight sort of I mean unestablished stars in
the sense that they're not no one's paying money to
see them. But obviously that would be a trying to
get them in a position that's a little bit higher
than they are with these eight guys. And they released

(01:39:04):
the bracket. Bruce, I want to get your thoughts on
who do you think is gonna win this Kay of
the Ring tournament and doesn't matter I'll get your thoughts
on that and when you kind of announce the bracket
a w W announced a couple hours ago. If you're
listening to us live on the live cast, give us
a call, give us your thoughts on the bracket, your predictions,
and also of course your comments questions on w W

(01:39:25):
and TNA will take those as well. But Bruce your
bracket here. First round matchups John Morrison versus Cody Rhoads,
Daniel Brian versus Alberto del Rio. So that's bracket number one.
Bracket number two Ezekiel Jackson versus Drew McIntyre, and Seamus
versus Kobe Kingston. I have Seamus winning this whole thing.

(01:39:47):
That's my prediction for who wins this, how they get there.
I think we might get a Shamus versus John Morrison's final. First,
what's your prediction for who wins this? And I mean
siming this bracket doesn't really jump out at me. It
feels sort of okay. Those are okay matchups, but nothing
really grabs me. Uh, your thoughts in the bracket and

(01:40:07):
who wins this?

Speaker 5 (01:40:07):
Bruce, let me have to a question. Let's let's go
back a little bit first, then, sure you know, a
few months ago we had a we had a big
larger bracket I believe it was sixty four Entrance Center
and throughout the whole Torch universe. To steal a phrase,
who won that? Who won that bracket picking contest?

Speaker 3 (01:40:26):
Is this a way Jerus Duke in the Life Guests.

Speaker 5 (01:40:30):
Who won that bracket winning contest?

Speaker 3 (01:40:32):
I believe it was.

Speaker 5 (01:40:33):
I believe it was myself. I'm just this is just
a statement of fact. After all the people that put
up in the brackets, and I wasn't winning in the beginning,
and then the road cleared and there I was. So
I just want to point that out right here. So anyway,
now I sort of I don't know, I kind of
like I kind of like Alberta de Rio versus an
injured Kochi and Alberta de Dorio to win because I

(01:40:56):
think the King gimmick, Yeah, the King, the King gimmick
kind fits him of the fat head with it with
the you know, with the crown hunt. So you know that,
I don't know. I mean, it's pretty funny because when
you look at this, the King of the Ring tournament
is not one of their greater achievements. I mean, there's
been exactly my my estimation. I got all the way

(01:41:17):
back to Don Morocco winning and winning a non televised
ones they used to do in the Northeast and many
many years ago, I don't know, twenty five years ago.
The only person I ever saw that got anything out
of this was with Steve Austin, and that was the
promo he did after he beat after he beat Jake Rogers.
So yeah, he knows the famous three sixteen prime. Everybody

(01:41:39):
else just kind of sacked there, you know, when Jim
Douggans winning your you know, when you're King of the Ring,
it's kind of you know, it's it's King of the
mid Park. So and you know, and there was also
something they revived just to just to give a past
this prom Harley Ray something to do that made fun
of him and how seriously he took himself when he
was the w A Touring World Champion.

Speaker 3 (01:42:00):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, you'll get I mean Owen Hart.
They got a little bit of stretch out of that
with Brett Hark, you know, and the in the mid nineties,
but reallyant I mean, we put up a couple of
flashbacks this weekend. I put up the one from Uh,
we was two thousand and that had I mean just
one of the worst series of matches I've ever I mean,

(01:42:20):
I remember, I remember watching that tournament. I had kind
of put it out of my mind until I did
this flashback, but I mean, just reading about it again,
I mean, it was seven terrible matches, I mean, nothing
above me start and a half. So that concept died
out without a bunch fans fear with Kurt Angle and
an Edge and Triple H went in a couple of those.
Brock Lester win one of the last ones before it

(01:42:41):
became a TV special, So you know, I don't know
what they start from tonight's show. It become interesting to
see how much is on the miz, how much is
on this tournament, how much is on silliness to filling
out an extra hour of TV? They really need an
extra hour to the ever really need an extra hour?
I don't think so, But we'll see what they do
to film hour of TVA tonight on Raw Again. You're

(01:43:03):
listening to the p Tow Torch Live cast with torchs
Assistant editor James Caldwell and Torts Calmus Bruce Mitchell. If
you're listening to us live on blog talk Radio. You
can give us a call at six four, six, seven, nine,
eight two eight talking Key of the Ring to BT
and a anything else on your mind tonight?

Speaker 14 (01:43:25):
Are you a nostalgic wrestling fan? Do you want to
hear about shows you haven't seen in ten, twenty, maybe
even thirty years? Well, I have the show for you.
I'm pwtorch dot com contributor Frank petty Ani, and since
December of twenty twenty, I've hosted Pro Wrestling Then and Now.
Together with a rotating chair of co hosts, we go
back and review old shows from top to bottom, talk

(01:43:46):
about where the wrestlers were at the time, and compare
what's taking place now to what took place. Then you
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PW tortch dot com slash go vi ip for details
and sign up for him.

Speaker 3 (01:44:10):
Let's go to our first college today from the ninety
three to one. Eric gosup. This is Ian out of
Tennessee Ian. How are you today?

Speaker 9 (01:44:18):
Good?

Speaker 3 (01:44:18):
That's going doing great? What are you first?

Speaker 9 (01:44:22):
Well?

Speaker 16 (01:44:22):
I don't think anybody could be any worse with the
King of the Rings than Billy Gunn, which I thought
that they they conveniently left out at their video packages
along with owen Hart, which was understandable, but it would
be nice to see Daniel Brian win it. But I
just have a feeling it's going to be Drew McIntyre.

Speaker 5 (01:44:39):
Really you have, you know, they really should have They
really shouldn't have left owing Hard out of their video package.
There's no reason to do that, you know, I mean,
he was there something that was a career accomplished or
for him, and they should He's he died and you
know it was a bad time for them and it should

(01:44:59):
have been a time for them. They still you know,
they should be they should have put that in there.
That's you know, I know the may I don't know,
but anyway that that's bad.

Speaker 3 (01:45:11):
Do you think there was fear a lawsuit by uh
by Martha Like I I don't mean to sincetiously, but
I mean that, you know, promoting the TV show and
there's a boost in ratings, that that she would claim
that they used Owenhart's likeness to boost their ratings, And
you think that's why they would.

Speaker 5 (01:45:28):
Yeah, but they don't know. I mean, I guess, I
guess that's a factor. I mean, maybe that was. I
can't imagine not being a huge factor.

Speaker 3 (01:45:34):
You know, I don't know.

Speaker 5 (01:45:36):
They still they still you know, they still could put
the stuff out. And I haven't heard any kind of
settlement and any kind of decision about that, which I
thought was which I thought on her her part of that,
her part of that suit was a stretch.

Speaker 3 (01:45:50):
Yeah, either or anything either. I've been trying to keep
track of that, but there hasn't been as far as
I don't ever been any developments. But in fact, you said,
Drew McIntyre, what's your going to give to sell us
on Droom and anything else?

Speaker 2 (01:46:03):
You have?

Speaker 16 (01:46:03):
Force thought was, Oh, no, I don't really want to
tell anybody on Drew as he needs I'm.

Speaker 3 (01:46:11):
Strong, he comes strong, and it sucks.

Speaker 16 (01:46:14):
I'm sorry. I just don't see anything at all about
him that's any good. He's married Gland in the ring
and off on the microphone, and I think that they're
using his accident to get heat, which is stupid, but.

Speaker 3 (01:46:29):
You know it's wee w e Yeah, Well it's like
edging kine and uh, they got heat on Kane because
they wouldn't say please on SmackDown our Friday. I just, oh,
my goodness, is up? Where are we? Are we in Kendergaren?
I mean, what's going on with the show? You know?
I know it's pug products and they're they get heat
on the heels if they look silly instead of you know,

(01:46:51):
threatening and menacing. But my goodness, that was I thought
that was.

Speaker 5 (01:46:54):
A little you know, you might have something there with
Drew threw back and tire women because looking into the
chat room, Daniel Scotland says, it makes sense for du
to wynd and night as midnight. You asked time just
now in Scotland's time, just now, it's Saint Andrew's day,
and Drew is short for Andrew. So they could be
you know, they could they could be doing a cross
promotion with the Catholic Church, and you know that that's

(01:47:17):
a very big church, so they could really be you know,
something good there.

Speaker 3 (01:47:22):
You go, yeah, yeah, well.

Speaker 16 (01:47:29):
I really hope not. But I have a two real
quick questions. Do you think that it's at all plausible
to see Owen Hart ever in the Hall of Fame?
And my other question is was Matt hardy the reason
that they had the ban on the settlements when they did.

Speaker 3 (01:47:49):
Chris going to.

Speaker 5 (01:47:50):
Take those two questions, well, the band of Soma's, I mean,
I know that they recognize. I think that the LIA
build issues they're starting to really crop up as the
light shines on special wrestling business. And and I think
that also they just it was there's a lot of
pressure on them. Couldn't say is thrown their hat into
the political ring with Lenna McMahon, and she's going to

(01:48:13):
continue to, you know, to clean up some things they
couldn't afford. The death that happened during that campaign were
bad enough, and they don't clean up the pill situation,
they were going to continue. And so that was I
think they did the right thing. I think that they
kind of looked at it and said, we've got to
do the right thing for whatever reason.

Speaker 10 (01:48:31):
That it was.

Speaker 5 (01:48:32):
And I think the campaign was the empathus for what
was the other question.

Speaker 3 (01:48:36):
About whether do you see Owen Hart ever being inducted
into the Hall of Fame.

Speaker 5 (01:48:41):
I think that's possible. I think that Brett Hart stays
in the fold and the Heart Godness continue with the
Heart Dynasty actually picks up and does anything they're going
to need. You know, I talked about this before they
booked the Hall of Fame shows like a wrestling showed
their main events, there's opening guys that get in and
then there's mid call there. So no one Heart would
be a mid carter that they could slot into something.

(01:49:02):
He was you know, he was a popular guy. I'm thinking,
you know, as we talked about here, some of it
depends on where the heat is with his with his WI.
But besides from that, I could definitely I could definitely
sip Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:49:16):
I mean, it might be a thing where they I mean,
I mean, I know Vancouver is trying to get WrestleMania
in a couple of years, so perhaps they wait until
if they ever have WrestleMania in Canada again, and it
was the last one in Toronto. A company was that
eight years ago in Toronto. You know, it might be

(01:49:37):
the thing where they wait until they were back in
Canada for WrestleMania. That might be when they do it.
So but if said versus, I mean, it kind of
depends that Martha and and how that works out. And
they kind of did a didn't they do an informal
kind of heart The entire Heart family was too hard
this year, so maybe that's uh, they didn't really mention
Owen Heart, but maybe that was if they never do

(01:49:59):
and duct own, that's what they might point to and say, well,
we did the whole Heart family this year was two arts,
so does that count? That might be either thinking of that.
But I would hope that eventually down the lot and
to have an individual one for him, we'll see. That's
that's that's that's an interesting thing to look out for.
So he and good question. Appreciate your call today, and

(01:50:19):
let's go on to our next phone call from the
seven oh three area code. Seven oh three. Welcome to
the sheriff. Please shit your naming where you're from?

Speaker 15 (01:50:27):
Hey, guys, it's later from Atlanta.

Speaker 3 (01:50:29):
Hey, Larry, what's going on today?

Speaker 15 (01:50:32):
Hey, it's going good, guys. I'm you know, I am
looking forward to the King of the Ring tournament. I'm
not sure it's going to be great. The two thousand
and eight one that regal one didn't do anything for
him and it wasn't a good tournament.

Speaker 3 (01:50:46):
So yeah, that one, I mean that was that was
a disaster in that bracket. But yeah, go ahead lay.

Speaker 15 (01:50:54):
Oh yeah, no, I mean, you guys, can even reflect
on that if you can remember the matchups. My my
only short of more memories, just you know, the TV
matches weren't spectacular. Although I know it's been brought up
a couple times before in the Love Cast, but I
feel I feel awful for Regal, who really was on
the cusp of some sort of main event push and
it just had an insane heat and uh, you know,

(01:51:17):
and and ended up losing it. But I guess my
question is, you know, I heard Billy Gunn brought up
and all that kind of deal, and I was wondering
looking at the eight competitors, just kind of joking a
little bit, but who do you think would be able
to sort of run run with it? And who do
you think would Billy Gunn the distinction of being King
of the Ring out of all all the eight participants,

(01:51:37):
let's say won.

Speaker 3 (01:51:39):
That's a good question, Bruce, who is your looking at
this list of eight, who is your potential? H who's
your potential Billy Gunn? Out of John Morris and Kobe Rhodes, Daniel,
Bryan del Rio, Jackson, Drew Back Entire, Seamus and Kopie Kingston.

Speaker 5 (01:51:55):
I don't know what anybody's quite got that he can't miss,
except he always does to them. It's too soon to
say if I Drew McIntyre, some of those guys have
you know, some potential to be you know, strong mid
card guys. So I mean that's I don't know, that's
what I would say, you know, I don't think it's really.

Speaker 3 (01:52:14):
Yeah, yeah, he doesn't. Just anybody in this bracket has
been on TV for you know, six or seven years,
and they're still kind of hanging around and he's sort
of mid card, uh you know, you know a fuse
or in like this in this case is a mid
card tournament. I mean, these are guys who Morrison really
hasn't just he hasn't really got there yet. He hasn't
been to that. He hasn't been evolved in roll, you know,

(01:52:36):
may even programs. Kobe Road is still young. Daniel Bryant's
just been on TV this year. Del Rio just came on.
Jackson's been off and on McIntyre. You know, they're not
done with him yet. He's not been on TV for
a couple of years. Jamis you know, Seamus is Seamus,
and Kofe's Kofe. So there isn't really that that that
Billy Gunn guy in his bracket. It's just to me,

(01:52:56):
it's a collection, I mean, guys who just aren't quite over,
and I think would try to find a way to.
I mean, I think Dani Bryant could be over if
they changed the way that presented him. My commentary with
Michael Cole. But Bruce kind of going back, you know,
like Larry the the other pearl, Larry's question, Uh, the
the two thousand and eight bracket. In the two thousand
and eight tournament, William Ringo won that and then I

(01:53:18):
believe he had the wellness violation and that kind of
killed his entire run, and they really haven't had any
confidence in him since then. But this tournament's had Chris
Jerikover's MVP, Sam Punk versus Matt Hardy Finley versus great colleague,
and William Rego versus Horn Swaggle. That was your tournament
in April of two thousand and eight. The second half

(01:53:40):
of that is nowhere near this year's version. But Bruce, overall,
how do you compare the last one in two thousand
and eight with Jericho m VTD. You hate me?

Speaker 5 (01:53:53):
You just say these things up to trive me crazy,
you hate me? How do I compare? How do I
compare that crappy tournament from two thousand and eight to
the night's three hour space filler ship? You know, different
count It's yeah, it's fabulous. I don't know, come on,

(01:54:15):
it's a mid car. It's it's it's not exactly that.
You know, they've got three hour shows to kill. They're
probably not that happy about it because their products over exposed.
But Bonnie Hammer's got kicked up the ladder. She likes them,
and I don't know it gives even though the thing
about it is that one hour those reruns that n
CIS do do better than that one hour does from

(01:54:38):
eight to nine. So you know, I don't know if
you know compare contrast those two I could do. You know,
I'll do a double bubble map for you and see
what I come up with. But different wrestlers, same mediocre,
same mediocre lineup, same hum mediocre stuff. And I would assume,
like I said, I sorted think got little of the reo,
but it.

Speaker 3 (01:54:57):
Wouldn't fall.

Speaker 7 (01:55:01):
That wouldn't fall out or.

Speaker 5 (01:55:02):
Fall in in for it. So, but James's you dropped
me crazy. I have a question for you Why did you?
Why did you? Why did you ignore this? Big is
a ghost houn or a ghost Trek story with these
three celebrities from wrestling that are on this on this
new TV show? You got something? Have you got Something's
Colt Cabana? I mean, is that?

Speaker 3 (01:55:22):
What is that?

Speaker 5 (01:55:23):
What the story is?

Speaker 3 (01:55:24):
Well?

Speaker 5 (01:55:24):
Too wrestling personalities nor I want to see.

Speaker 3 (01:55:29):
That something's gonna come of this, you know, I mean,
this is.

Speaker 5 (01:55:32):
A release, so it has to be. I mean, just
got it was the pilot. Are you saying here you're
waiting for the pilot to get sold or something?

Speaker 3 (01:55:41):
Or yeah, That's what I'm waiting for because I've seen
so many of these come across my desk, and you know,
the two plus years have been a full time assistant editor,
I've seen I mean, I know it's you know, I
know it's involving Johnny fair Play and Colt Cabana and
the illustrious UH Disco Inferno. But I've seen so many's
come across. Say, okay, let me see something tangible before.

Speaker 5 (01:56:02):
I got track excuse me? Ghost track?

Speaker 3 (01:56:06):
Yeah, if that was if it was something else, if
what was another title that would be fun it was
on track.

Speaker 5 (01:56:12):
It's like star Trek comes to gather with ghost Hunter.

Speaker 3 (01:56:16):
That Hunter. That's what I was trying to think of. Yeah, yeah,
what you said. You might have wanted that, but I.

Speaker 5 (01:56:21):
Might have said that. Okay, ghost Track, Okay, we got it. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:56:25):
A comic core series pilot based on a paranormal reality
TV show, Guess Trak Poality paranormal underworld detective Society hudds
as they investigate hunts across the US and abroad between
tenny beds, babes, bodybuilding, and long hits, all while risking
life and land confronting the undead.

Speaker 5 (01:56:43):
You watch Tell the Truth. If you had a if
you had a day off, you know, if you ever
had a if they'd ever gave you a day off,
would you wouldn't you watch that show? Wouldn't you in
the midst of sitting down and watch that shot?

Speaker 3 (01:56:56):
Probably not, But if it was interesting enough for some
comedic value, I might. I might. Well, it's a.

Speaker 5 (01:57:02):
Ghost, you know, I'm a big ghost Hamma. I never
missed Ghost Hana all the I was out on the side, yes,
on the Sci Fi Network. So so if you're doing
a parody of a show that's as good as Ghost Hana,
I mean, I don't see how it can miss. And
you've got you've got three wrestling big wrestling personalities, and

(01:57:23):
well you do two and a half.

Speaker 3 (01:57:24):
You've got but what what what made me laugh? In
the press releases they listened to cast and they have
Scott Colton who that's called Cabana and uh it lists
dumb E, T N A and R O I. So
apparently there's an investment firm.

Speaker 2 (01:57:43):
Awesome.

Speaker 5 (01:57:45):
Well, I have set the show long enough tom Us music,
so you can take it right now.

Speaker 3 (01:57:51):
Yeah, but that's uh, that's a Johnny fair Play Cabana GILBERTI.
And it's been a like I said, I saw it
last night, got the email. I can sit her posting it,
but I want to see the pilot before. I want
to see something actually happened from this before give it
some posts.

Speaker 5 (01:58:06):
Well you know what that means, you've now committed to
watching the pilot. I have I think so called Well,
I think I think that you have committed to watching
the pilots. I think we can make those arrangements because
I know that I know that you know Johnny paraplay.

Speaker 3 (01:58:19):
I'm sure, I'm sure he's running. Yeah, man, in the WrestleMania.
I told this story about before, about meeting him in
WrestleMania twenty three in Detroit at the r H Show
when he got slapped by Nigel Bee. There was oh
you were there?

Speaker 5 (01:58:33):
Why for that?

Speaker 3 (01:58:35):
Yeah, they even filmed the each one was there and
he was filmed a bent with with fair play and
I and never it didn't make hard.

Speaker 5 (01:58:43):
That's one of my sets I have. I believe I
have that still in my It's still in my player
right now. I played over once a while. I'm feeling low,
we're down. I watched Mondem going to slap the crap
out of Johnny Parapoy and somehow the world seems with
butterflies there you goga.

Speaker 1 (01:59:03):
We are running our second VIP sale of the year.
You want to take advantage of this. If you've thought
of going vip or let your sublaps had to step
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Pw toorch dot com slash Go Vip tells you about
VIP membership. There is a link to our order form
and you can choose a one month or three month
subscription and you can take nine dollars off any of

(01:59:24):
those three options. The coupon code is Nov. Twenty twenty
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(02:00:09):
terms of podcast length, and it is a new feature.
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or one year sub.

Speaker 3 (02:00:30):
Let's go back to Larry, Larry, if you have any
other question or follow up.

Speaker 15 (02:00:34):
You know, I had no idea that this show or
where whatever that deally is is coming out. I can't
wait until they add buff Bagwell to the cast. Is
sundicated sports talk show hosts a minute?

Speaker 5 (02:00:48):
Are you riding sharing these three, these three wealth in personalities.
That's not right.

Speaker 15 (02:00:54):
It only see I would never dream of doing that
because I mean.

Speaker 3 (02:00:58):
It only had your national It's only Nashville for Buffalo
on the show. That's what I'm saying, Hilary, good, good
point here, anything else for us? Yeah?

Speaker 15 (02:01:10):
Sure, I just wanted to throw in. I wasn't sure, Bruce,
if you were saying that you were sort of envisioning
Alberto del Rio as the potential winner. I guess you know,
if other colleers, you're gonna end up putting it out
there during the live cast. But uh, you know, with
that whole like oh, you know, royal bloodline and and
that kind of deal, I could see del Rio getting

(02:01:31):
it so going that route.

Speaker 5 (02:01:34):
But yeah, I mean I can see that. I mean,
he's all you know, he's already real pretend, he's real pretentious.
He's you know, he's rich, better than everybody else, and
so you know, you look at you look at the
gimmicks that could hold that, and that would be the
obvious choice. I think in this case, a three hour
show building him, you know, building him as as you know,

(02:01:55):
as a kind of a dangerous heel is it isn't
a bad idea out of all the people that they drew.
McIntire is not quite ready for. Kasey doesn't say it,
and I don't know. To me, he's he's probably the
best of a pretty middle of the road lock there.

Speaker 3 (02:02:10):
First, do you see Gay O'Brien advancing to the finals
having any shot of winning this?

Speaker 5 (02:02:16):
I hope he doesn't win it because to me, if
they give it, if he won, that it would be
the ridicule of him. Yeah, having had him look uncomfortable
in a rogue, look uncomfortable with with the with the
crown on, and you know, and maybe much like twenty
years ago Harley Race, you know, he takes himself so seriously,
so we're gonna put this on him. He's the king

(02:02:36):
of wrestling, ha ha ha. And I really, I really
hope not so hopefully we get you know, one or
two good matches with them mat and then maybe a
loss and he goes on, goes on his US champion
and infuse with Ted d Bassi, and you know that
that's what I would and I kind of expect that.
I don't think they're going to go that far with
him because because what they would end up doing is
having a three hour show the Spotlight of Daniel Bryant,

(02:02:58):
and I don't know they want to do that it.

Speaker 3 (02:03:01):
Yeah, and they had Daniel Bryant against Del Rio in
the first round matchup, so that makes me think that
Brian's down in the Yeah, A good point here.

Speaker 5 (02:03:10):
If if my other thing said then he'd have to
know he'd have to go out in the first round stuff.

Speaker 3 (02:03:15):
Yeah, exactly, I see. I like your idea for his son.
I don't like it, but I think that's what's gonna
happen is Debias Interfears and they continue that US title
a few that way, so you know del Rio and
Debios former Lion who Knows Money inc. Part two.

Speaker 5 (02:03:30):
It's kind of time for strike back, so he said
twas so yeah, I can hear it.

Speaker 3 (02:03:37):
Yeah, let me appreciate the call. Could hear from me today?
Let's go on and grabbing their phone call. Let's go
to the seven oh two area code. Seven oh two.
Welcome to the show. Please say your name and where
you're from. Hey, this is Ben Pennsylvania. Hey Ben, what
do you have for a say? I actually called it
about t N A sure. Uh.

Speaker 11 (02:03:59):
Do you think that it's possible that being a will
ever get out of this rut? Because it seems like
every time they do something good, either people ignore it
or if they go way too far with it until
the point where it's not good anymore.

Speaker 3 (02:04:15):
I mean, Brice, you wrote your your long form calm
on this. It's not just a matter of you know,
a couple of good weeks of TV or you know
some you know, mister Anderson catches fire before he's put
on the back burner again. It's a complete overall that's needed.
I mean, versus, what's your reaction to what Ben said
and how how it's possible for them to quote unquote

(02:04:39):
get good again? Ben?

Speaker 5 (02:04:42):
What what was it that you thought that they've done
lightly or what's the last thing that they did that
was good in your eyes? And you thought maybe God ignored.

Speaker 4 (02:04:52):
Uh.

Speaker 11 (02:04:52):
Personally, I think that they're handling the Jeff Hardy he'll
turn a lot better than you know, people even imagined
he he's actually taking it quite well. I thought that
he you know, his baby face promos obviously weren't up
to the best of the best quality. And he's taken

(02:05:13):
his heel turn very well. And he's actually cut some
decent promos which he couldn't do as a baby face.
And I thought they did that when people thought they couldn't.

Speaker 5 (02:05:25):
Well, you know, I mean I think he had you know,
I will say this, I think he's done. He's taken
more seriously, done a better job as a heel than
I thought he would. As far as the thought behind
his promos, I agree with that. My problem with it
is he should never have turned heel that under. There's
nothing that he's going to do on the net or
there's no position that they could put him in that's

(02:05:46):
gonna make him more valuable as a heel than he
is with a baby than he is as a baby face.
That he can sell the T shirts, he can bring
fans in, and has already shown both ways that that
their house show attendance has gone down. The pay per views.
You know, they're not stowing any pay per views and
their merchant, they're not sewing as many Jeff Hardy T shirts.
So that that's kind of my problem is when you

(02:06:08):
have somebody that the fans have ticked that they like
for whatever reason they like, there's a special chemistry, and
he has that special chemistry. You know, particularly today's rustling world,
was so hard to get acts that are over by themselves.
It's just, I mean, it's just pointless to do it. So,
I mean, I think he's done a good job. I
also think that that you put him in the context

(02:06:30):
of fortune, and you put him in the context of
the of immortal and he seems like a stone there too,
that character does. So yeah, yeah, I think you're right.
I mean, I'll say that he's done a better job
than I expected him to do. I'm just I just
think it's it's as effective as I expected to do,
which is not effective at all. So how that's that's

(02:06:51):
interesting though, I mean I was curious. That's a good point.

Speaker 11 (02:06:55):
Yeah, Ben, I definitely agreed that they shouldn't have turned
him heel as I'm a from a business standpoint. In fact,
I think you should stop turning people. I mean, you
get you're lucky if you get WWE to turn people
twice a year and they're doing it twice at night,
and it's just oversaturated, a saturation. I definitely agree with that,

(02:07:16):
But I think there is some definite gems in DNA
that doesn't it's not necessarily machine gun versus Generation ME
or whatever. Uh, there is some gems that we can
pick up from the storylines, but they just seem to
be glossing over at that and filling it with a
bunch of a bunch of stuff that doesn't need to

(02:07:38):
be there.

Speaker 5 (02:07:39):
Yeah, I mean it's sort of the problem. The problem
is this foundation is so shaky that when they come
up with something, when they come up with something, when
there's a good skit or good promo, when those things
do happen or a good match, it doesn't resonate for
longer than it takes for the for the skip to
be on the air, because it doesn't mean anything when

(02:08:01):
they have those fights for power. You know, was watching
Rhyino and Tommy Dreaming the other night and Tommy Dreamer
explaining the Rhino about you know, we're trying to hold
on no one ever loves those fights for power. No
one ever loses them because it doesn't matter, you know,
it's it's it doesn't matter if you win or lose.
Nothing on TV matters as to what happens. So they

(02:08:21):
kind of come and go, and you know they might,
you know, they might have a match out all of
a sudden, we're raving. If Labor for some reason is
you know, is losingly talent, he's out. But nothing. You know,
they've taught their fans that nothing counts because they don't
have anything count And so you just have a lot
of talking and a lot of back and forth, and

(02:08:43):
you can have things that turn up that are that
are pretty good. Sometimes everyone saw something is very good.
But if it's not put in the right if it's
not manipulated in the right place, it doesn't mean anything.
And when you've done eight years of that, when you've
hot shot it for eight years, no one's gonna take
any and you do seriously. And that's what that's what
the problem is. No one takes anything they do seriously.

(02:09:05):
And to change that that takes a major overhaul, patience
and time and an attention to detail. And I don't
see where TNA has any of those things you're gonna
get or going to get any of those things anytime.

Speaker 3 (02:09:17):
In the future.

Speaker 5 (02:09:18):
So it's you know, it's a frustrating product, and you
can I think you can do what you're doing, which
is look for some positives and take out some things
that you like. But if you've got expectations for this,
you know you're going to be disappointed.

Speaker 3 (02:09:33):
Yeah, we'll put Bruce Been back to you and any
other thoughts on TNA or another another question?

Speaker 11 (02:09:40):
Uh well, just one last comment.

Speaker 3 (02:09:42):
I guess I actually started watching.

Speaker 11 (02:09:45):
Wrestling in two thousand and seven, so I wasn't actually
cursed with watching the Attitude era and having all these
great expectations. But going back and actually watching the Rods
from that era, watching the Night Rose, I can see
why so many people are dissatisfied with this product.

Speaker 5 (02:10:06):
Let me ask yourself, as Ben, what drew you in
in two thousand and seven, what got you interested in wrestle?

Speaker 11 (02:10:13):
Well, my friend just started talking about it, so I decided.

Speaker 3 (02:10:17):
To check it out.

Speaker 11 (02:10:18):
But you know, I actually started watching wrestling I think
the week after the Ben Watch review, So it wasn't
that great of a time in effect.

Speaker 6 (02:10:30):
No, But what I mean personalities, or was there any
story or anything where it kind of hooked you in,
or besides, how in the world what happened with Chris
ben Long.

Speaker 11 (02:10:43):
Actually I didn't know about Chris ben Moot at that time,
but I think the thing that drew me in was
I didn't know what was going on. You know, like
as the first time viewer, you hear things like pay
per view, you hear things like the three counts, you know,
and you know what those mean, but you don't know

(02:11:04):
what the context is for that.

Speaker 3 (02:11:05):
So I was just interested in.

Speaker 11 (02:11:06):
Finding out more and more. And then then I got
into the behind the scenes, you know, I became a
smart I guess you could say.

Speaker 5 (02:11:15):
And yeah, you know what, you know what, I'm gonna
tell you something. Then don't call yourself that Smart's fine
if you if you're you're educating yourself about the business
or the student of wrestling or those things are fine.
But smart comes from the word mark and mark you're
a victim of a con And I don't think anybody
wants to be a victim of a con. So I mean,

(02:11:36):
that's that's the correct use of the word mark. So
I'm real sensitive about about that. I don't know that
if you're getting if you're getting value for what you're paying,
if you're if you're if you're enjoying it and learn
something from it, you're not You're not as smart, you know.
And the other thing is, you know that idea that
if you're not if you're not in the business, you

(02:11:57):
can never really understand it.

Speaker 3 (02:12:01):
That's just not true.

Speaker 5 (02:12:02):
So that, you know, don't don't let that's kind of
a con to because there are people that are in
the business that understand understand it really well and people
in the business that don't understand it very well at all,
and that can kind of be there. So so I'm sorry,
I'm you know, I'm a I'm a school teacher by trade,
so sometimes, as James can tell you, I'll start lettering
so you can kind of well, don't ignore.

Speaker 3 (02:12:23):
I take that consider.

Speaker 11 (02:12:25):
I just I couldn't find the right word. But yeah, yeah,
you know, so I just got I.

Speaker 5 (02:12:34):
Like student of the business. I've always thought I was
that kind of had that because there's always something.

Speaker 9 (02:12:39):
More to learn.

Speaker 3 (02:12:40):
Yeah, yeah there is. But yeah, then your final thoughts
or anything else you want to share, so.

Speaker 11 (02:12:48):
Uh it just say, you know, because I didn't watch
the attitude.

Speaker 3 (02:12:52):
I guess you.

Speaker 11 (02:12:53):
Know, I appreciate today's wrestling more because I don't have
anything to compare it to.

Speaker 3 (02:12:58):
Yeah, you haven't through Vince Russo's booking for as long
as we have going back to the nineties, and the
same exact booking that they they Russo is trying to
pass off in w CW.

Speaker 5 (02:13:11):
But I don't want to interrupt you too, I'm sorry.
But the one thing to remember is there's a lot
of fans like them. There's a lot of new fans
that have been fans for just a few years. And
some of those things that get repeated, some of the
things that get repeated we've seen many times and it
does and believe me, because I've been been a long
time and it's like, you know, you may be tired
of it, but to me, if it's effectively used, if

(02:13:34):
it's repeated at the right time and done in the
right way, and there's an excitement about it, particularly fueled
by new fans, that's a fun thing to watch. It's
just when it's not done in the correct way, or
it's we're not done in a way that's affected from
the time effected for today's time, then you just kind
of hold your hands down, and there's you know, when
they do it a new way that's not as good

(02:13:55):
as the old way that can do that could be
pretty frustrating. And you know, there's you know it is
when you when you live through that time when something
really catches on and you see the excitement and the
crowd grows and the matches are that much more exciting
and the guys work hard, but everything they do is
that much more effective.

Speaker 3 (02:14:16):
It's you see what.

Speaker 5 (02:14:17):
The attraction is a pro wrestling. So I'd say, you know,
the stuff, it's in a downtime right now, and I
don't know what's going I don't believe in cycles, but
it's in a downtime right now. But it could be
that the people that are in charge work their way
out of this. And if they do that, then you've
got something to look forward to, because it can be
it can be as much fun to watch as anything else.

(02:14:38):
As anything else out there.

Speaker 3 (02:14:40):
Yeah, I mean, it's like being far of a rebuilding
team and you kind of look forward to when that
team is competitive again and they're you know and in
a playoff chase and you can stay all that's part
of it. You know, when they were really struggling when
they're trying to, you know, to find the next new
first basement or the next new quarterback or whatever.

Speaker 5 (02:14:56):
So like James is doing right now with Nke Brown
and the law. Yeah, yeah, he's paying his news this year.

Speaker 3 (02:15:04):
So yeah, I went to five games where they lost
this year. I I don't think I've been to five
games where they lost my entire life before this year.
But I'm taking prod. I didn't send the sidelines like
a lot of my fellow fell fans. I still went,
still support it, still watched.

Speaker 9 (02:15:23):
So yeah, there you go.

Speaker 3 (02:15:25):
Good analogy, Brice.

Speaker 5 (02:15:27):
I do you'd appreciate that?

Speaker 3 (02:15:29):
Yeah? I have something to draw from it for this year,
terrible year. Ben. Appreciate the call and be sure to
call back again. Sim We appreciate your thoughts on that.

Speaker 1 (02:15:44):
You don't have to wait for the Waight Keller Progrestling
post show to find out what I thought of Monday
Night Raw and SmackDown. Each week, you can check out
my reports that are updated live throughout Raw and SmackDown
at PW torch dot com. I written report will tell
you what's happening in detail in case you missed the show,
and it will also analyze key segments and give my
random thoughts quips on what I am watching as it airs.

(02:16:06):
So check it out every Monday night and Tuesday night
at pwtorch dot com. That also applies to WWE pay perviews.
I cover those live at pw torch dot com with
a detailed written report with star ratings, and of course
you can find other TV reports from other contributors to
PW torch such as nxt roh Impact Wrestling, and more.
Check it out pw torch dot com your first stop

(02:16:28):
for TV and pay per view written reports.

Speaker 3 (02:16:40):
Let's go ahead and go to some more phone calls.
Let's go to the three four seven area code three
four seven. Welcome to the show. Please sit your name
and where you're from.

Speaker 2 (02:16:49):
Hello, this is Chris.

Speaker 4 (02:16:50):
From New York.

Speaker 2 (02:16:51):
I have a very interesting question that wants to make
a comment. Do you ever see putting Eric Kishoff in
the Hall of Fame? I mean, personally, I don't see
it happening, because, first of all, this guy tried to
put Deby out of business with Ted Turner, and basically
Denby just hired this guy back in the two thousand
just to humble him. I mean, I'm like Man's DVD.
He said he hired him just to just to be

(02:17:13):
able to say that this guy worked for me, and
to make to humiliate him by throw him in the
garbage truck at the end, so to speak, so the
ob see it happening. Or would Bishop never accepted?

Speaker 5 (02:17:24):
Bruce, what's your take if there's a check in at
Eric bishoff with rightfully accepted because he knows the score.
I mean, the score at this point is WCW is
over if there's a money making opportunity out there. He
was very professional during his time. During his time in WW,
he did what they asked him to do and they
got a lot of use out of him. He lost

(02:17:44):
it a lot longer than people thought he would, both
in and out of the company, because they realized that
he is a good on their descent Man realized he
was a good on air performer that he could make
use of. And yes, the story did end up with
him getting thrown in the in the garbage truck, which
you know, which is where the story was going to
end up. The fact that he's in TNA, you know,
I would say preclusive of going in for for several

(02:18:06):
years until he leaves TNA. But they might come a
day where they're looking for someone to put They've got
a DVD with some sort of w c try to
try to use the w CWT library or I don't
think they're gonna do their dish off story. But you
know there's you know they're are they you know they're
in some town. You know they're in some town and
they need somebody. As I kind of talked about, who's

(02:18:27):
not that important to them, who's not a major act,
But they can put with four or five other people
in the Hall of Fame mid cards of that year,
and they could put him in and he would, like
I said, he would accept it. So I think the
odds are against it right now, you know, for the
foreseeable future. But who knows down the road.

Speaker 3 (02:18:46):
Yeah, I think if the you know, if the money
lines up on both sides, you know, I think that
could happen ninety times soon. Like you said, Ros kind
of you have to get that, you have to get
that stench off you a little bit. If you're coming
to WWE. You know he's been associated with with I mean,
he also has the thing where he and uh Hulk
Cogan went in an MSG. Did that big announcement that

(02:19:07):
didn't sit well with WW. So, I mean, there's there's
a little bit of a process that would have to
take place before he would go back or he before
he would be accepted, and he would, you know, willingly
go back to w B for a Hall of Fame induction.
But that's that's probably three or four years down the road,
maybe even longer, Uh, depends on the circumstances of both companies.
However long you know, have a long Bishop and Hogan

(02:19:29):
stay with TNA. Uh, you know, whatever position WW is
in three or four, five, six years from now. So
a lot of things can change between now and then.
But I would say, I would say a fair chance
that he would go eventually down the road. So uh,
not anytime soon, but long term. Yes, Chris kud Cale
appreciate that we're gonna keep marching through phone calls last
ten minutes of the show before our coverage of the

(02:19:51):
three hour w W raw on tw towrs dot com
also want to plug the launch of wadkeller dot Com
towards editor Wade Keller's new daily blog with blog Thoughts
and now the News Today, different features from Wade's coverage
of par Us over the last twenty three twenty four
years through the pro Usting Towards newsletter that just launched

(02:20:13):
this weekend and it's available at Wade Keller dot com.
You can also access that through pb torch dot com.
So excited to announce that. And let's go ahead and
grab some more phone calls. Let's go to these three
one three area co Let's try to three one three.
Welcome to the show. Please say your name? Man, where
you're from?

Speaker 9 (02:20:34):
Hey, this is Winning from Detroit. How are you?

Speaker 3 (02:20:36):
Guys? What was your first name? Didn't catch it? My
name is Wayne? Oh hey, waynew are you doing?

Speaker 9 (02:20:43):
I'm doing? Okay?

Speaker 3 (02:20:44):
Great? What do you have first?

Speaker 9 (02:20:45):
I want to first, I wanted to say, doesn't Want
seem to have a striking resemblance to the Patriot. I
thought that was fun.

Speaker 3 (02:20:54):
I haven't seen the pictures yet, but the Patriot Dell
wil certainly comes to mind with email John C under
a mask. That's that's a good comparison. Yeah, go ahead, Okay.

Speaker 9 (02:21:06):
I want to start by saying I'm happy that the
mis won the title. I'm for anyone new you know,
holding the title and getting it off of the regular guys.
But I wanted to make a comment about his title
run and the whole money in the bank and a
whole I think that the whole concept of money in

(02:21:27):
the bank actually hurts whoever wins the titles, you know,
from getting that opportunity.

Speaker 3 (02:21:35):
If you look at the history.

Speaker 9 (02:21:36):
Of money in the bank, money in the bank really
has never helped anyone, and it seems to be a
program that only helps heals. So it kind of makes
it kind of makes it really predictable as far as
who may win. I mean, like the miss you know,
he finally got his shot, but you know it came

(02:21:59):
with Randy Orton, you know, when he was hurt. So
if you really wanted to give him a real title run,
I would think that you will want to make him
look strong. But money in the bank only makes whoever wins.

Speaker 3 (02:22:12):
It look weak.

Speaker 9 (02:22:14):
So I really have a problem with the whole money
in the bank, you know, a program or whatnot. I
want to get your opinion.

Speaker 3 (02:22:22):
Yeah, good thoughts, Wayne brist I'll go to you first
on this. What are your thoughts on the money in
the bank and the way you know in this case
them is won the belt on Monday's wrong?

Speaker 5 (02:22:32):
Well, I mean there's a couple of things about it.
You can also you can do the baby tase thing
of instead of going out there and taking advantage of
somebody when they're heart or beat down, just say I've
got this money in the bank and now i want
my opportunity fair and square against you know, the miss.
Say the miss keeps it for a year ha ha
ha against the mis at WrestleMania. And I'm calling when

(02:22:57):
I want to tie, I when I want my shot,
and they have to give it to you. So the
babyface can call it in a fair way, you know,
can say I want it, you know. And Rob Van
Dam did that against John Cena. I believe it was
the second ECW pay per view, so that that's the
way to do it in the baby face way. And
there was also I forget who it was. Someone did
it to Edge where they use the money in the

(02:23:18):
bank against Edge. Edge had used it like twice to
win the title, but get somebody out of you know,
seeing punks and seeing Punky used to be gainst Edge.
It was kind of like the heel got. The heel
got what he'd been giving everybody else for such a
long time, and he didn't say anything. So that so
that's it. But I really do think that next year
they ought to have or to pursue, you know, or

(02:23:44):
soon that that that they have a baby face take
it and say you know, take it and say I'm
gonna use it. And I want to win, like a man,
I want to win fair and square, face to face
against my opponent. And I want to win, you know,
on the biggest stage. I want to win in the
summers lamb or you know, make it a big you know,
make it a big, a big thing then and that

(02:24:04):
would kind of take you know.

Speaker 3 (02:24:06):
That's the problem with it.

Speaker 5 (02:24:06):
They've really institutionalized the fact that you have to earn
this chance to cheat somebody, and that's that's kind of backwards.
But you know, that's a lot of rustle, and they've
kind of forgotten. You do need you do need that
fate moral framework to work around so people can that
people can root for some root for somebody that does things,

(02:24:27):
you know that that that's got some you know, for
someone that's got got some guts, and and root against
somebody who doesn't have enough guts to to win straight up.

Speaker 3 (02:24:36):
And the other issue is that the belt's not over.
You know, if you're going to do the undeserving heel
champion in this case the miz you know, to really
get heat on him as the undeserving champion, that belt
has to be over and that belt is not over.
So that's star do they handle that situation?

Speaker 5 (02:24:57):
You know, that's well, that's another part of it. One
of them is one of them is you know, Roddy
Piper's out there two weeks ago talking about Kurt Hell.
You never won the world title. Roddy Piper never won
the world title. And there's a slew of big time
greg wrestlers that never won the world title until the
last twenty years ago, when the world title is just
something that you pass around that if you make it

(02:25:18):
to the top of the mid card, you make it
as far as Kobe k Easton, you know, Kobe s Kaston,
you make it a little bit better than Kvie Kingston.
You're gonna win the time you get your turn. I mean,
there's them, you know, you know, there's seeing Punk last
week going low. I have won the title and you're
just like you just started your career, you know, you
just started your career as a main eventor so, I mean,
I'm with Ray Kellery. That would take and take a
real sea change in attitude, which is find a heal

(02:25:42):
or find a baby face. And you know two parts
about it. There's not in the in the immortal words
of the late carry Van Eric, they are not two worlds.
There's only one world. So there should only be one
world title. They should the w W time. I don't
want to hear one w W and one of them.

Speaker 3 (02:26:03):
Is the world title.

Speaker 5 (02:26:04):
You know, they should take those two and spend a
year building up to you know, title versus title at
WrestleMania and then keep and then keep one one world
World Champions. Who goes back and forth, It goes back
and forth to you know, you know, between the two brands,

(02:26:25):
and isn't you know it doesn't defend it every single league?
So I mean that could you know that could that
could do it? But you know, I mean that's that's
how you do it. And it takes you know, it
takes patience, and I don't know they have patience for that.
It's one thing that a man hasn't gotten more patient

(02:26:45):
in his old in his old days.

Speaker 3 (02:26:49):
And more I think antsy, you know, it's I don't
know what, I don't know why, but maybe the pressures
a TV and all that sort of factors in there
as well. You know, uh ufnwork needs a hot show,
they need a title change, they need a three hour show,
they need something. We're paying you thirty million dollars a quarter.
Give us something, you know, give us a title match,

(02:27:10):
you know, and it it presses their hand and they're
forced and then they don't have the talent, they don't
have the depth. They're forced to do these sorts of things.
So there you go, Wayne, good call. Appreciate appreciate you
calling in. Let's get in two more phone calls on
the live cast. Let's go to the seven to five
seven area code seven five to seven. Welcome to the show.
Please say turname and where you're from. Hey, yeah, my

(02:27:32):
name is Roger and this is Wayne correct, this is
actually James cold Well, it's just an editor. But you're
on the right show. Yeah, what do you have for us?
All right?

Speaker 7 (02:27:43):
I'm with your internet service provider, and it seems that
you have managed to kind of the virus on to
the company.

Speaker 3 (02:27:51):
Wow, that was random. Let's go ahead and go to
our next phone call. Let's code to the nine one
four eree code nine one four. Welcome to the show.
Please that your name where you're from? Hey, It's County
from New York. Hey, Johny. What do you have? First? Say?

Speaker 5 (02:28:05):
A quick question from Bruce you know in tribute to
him Leslie Nielsen, I was reading about the whole undertaking
versus undertaking thing a quick recap.

Speaker 15 (02:28:13):
How did I exactly go down?

Speaker 5 (02:28:14):
And why did this tail so bad?

Speaker 3 (02:28:17):
Bruce Summerli ninety four. Leslie Nielsen's involvement, I mean, I
mean everybody, if everybody who watched it that time remembers
the build up to that with Debs and money Ink
and the horrible match they had Brian Lee and Colway
at Summerston ninety four. How did Leslie Nielsen get involved
in that angle?

Speaker 5 (02:28:35):
Bruce Well, I mean they used to do more than one,
so they would do a whole bunch of celebrities that
Russell Mayne whoever was kind of hot in the cultural
world at that point, and Leslie Nielsen was a pretty
big deal. You couldn't be you had to be a
pretty big deal. You couldn't be a big deal. And

(02:28:55):
and so if he was just kind of thrown in there,
I wouldn't say it was any you know, it wasn't
it was just he was throwing in there kind of
as an after talk. Now, Brian Lee was a guy
who a lot of people thought big, rangy, blonde haired,
decent worker, not a ton of charisma and some charisma,
and you know that you know that was I mean,

(02:29:17):
that was kind of part of it. So so you know,
he would get a chance, and he was friends with
Mark Collaway, and so they were looking for somebody to
do this with and they had Paul Baer established. They
thought everyone would really be shot that there was this
you know that there was this undertaker who was not
the real one, and instead of people going out it's

(02:29:38):
it's so shocking and controversial. It sort of was like
it was a guy doing an undertaker who wasn't quite
as good at it and it just didn't work. And
then Brian Lee wasn't always the most dependable guy in
the world. I put it like that. He had his
he had he had some problems and you can kind
of figure out what they were, you know, over the years,

(02:29:59):
and so they were they were a little tired of
him by the time Russell Nadia came around. So it
basically was that Mark Callaway undertaker just just you know,
walked right over Underfaker and that was the end of it.

Speaker 3 (02:30:15):
Underfaker. There you go ahead, Okay. When I was doing
the flashpag, I was trying to think, wasn't there a
nickname that there was? Actually there was actually a nickname
beyond like fake Undertaker. Yeah, Underfaker, that's what it was.
So good memory that Bruce, I mean, and I kind
of wanted to even bring this up during the lifecast
stave the Bruce. What is your your favorite Leslian Nielsen

(02:30:37):
comedy movie?

Speaker 5 (02:30:40):
I always liked Leslie Nielsen Quinn Marshaws when he was
actually a serious guy, he would do stuff, but no,
I mean, it was kind of amazing to see him
turn around. Airplane was the best one. The Airplane was
the first time you've been used to seeing him for
years onto all these kind of you know, not so
great TV shows, playing either the bad guy or the

(02:31:02):
respectable good guy. And then the key to them was
he said the silliest things with the straightest face. And
that's what made him so good. You know, he played
it completely straight no matter what situation than he was
and you get the more, you know, the more addiculous situation,
the funnier was because he never recognized with it with
a ridiculous situation.

Speaker 3 (02:31:22):
And that was the beauty of it. That was I mean,
you know, I wasn't even born when Airplane came out,
but I've watched that, you know, probably twenty five times.
He's just something new every time you watched seconds. All right, brins,
we're going to last ten seconds when I think everyone
for listening and join us from wife. Coverage of Raw
and peeby Towards dot com starting now.

Speaker 1 (02:31:48):
If you missed it earlier, just a reminder, we're running
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Speaker 17 (02:32:43):
Searching for more great pro wrestling talk, then join me
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Thanks for listening to our podcast. Did you know we
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In twenty twelve, NXT transitioned into the developmental system and
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