15 YRS AGO LIVECASTS: Nexus losing momentum, Lashley in Strikeforce, Starrcade '97 finish, venting about TNA, Randy Savage-HOF

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 2 (01:05):
Now, PW Torch and Spreaker bring you the Wade Keller
Pro Wrestling Podcast.

Speaker 3 (01:15):
Today.

Speaker 1 (01:16):
On the Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast. For Friday, August
twenty ninth to twenty twenty five, we jump back to
a doubleheader from fifteen years ago this week. First up
is the August twenty third episode, where James Caldwell guest
hosted for me with Greg Parks to discuss with live
callers a lot of things going on with Nexus that week,
including with Darren Young, Alberta del Rio's SmackDown debut that

(01:37):
was fifteen years ago, how long Randy Orton could have
a babyface run, a booking plan to stretch out Kine
Undertaker to wrestle in Hea twenty seven, much to Parks's chagrin,
a brief discussion of Strikeforce with Bobby Lashley at the end,
and more. Then, the August twenty four to twenty ten
episode features Jason Powell joining me and we took live
calls for most of the hour, including topics ranging from

(01:57):
Bobby Lashley's loss, Paul Hayman's talks, strike for Star Kad
ninety seven's finish, MS losing to John Cena, Zach Rider's
quick loss, and Serena's release, and of course, inventing about TNA.
In the previously VIP exclusive after show, we talked about
how TNA could clean up their business approach, plus Randy
Savage in the WWE Hall of Fame, So let's get

(02:18):
to it. The show's originally live streamed just over fifteen
years ago in August twenty third and twenty fourth, twenty ten,
and it is today's Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast fifteen
years ago flashback for Friday, August twenty ninth, twenty twenty five.

Speaker 2 (02:34):
You're listening too with B to B Torch Live Cast.
This is PW Torch Assistant editor James caldwell A hosting
today on Monday, August the twenty third, and I am
joined by P to B Torch's columnus Greg Parks, leading
right up until w W Raw tonight at nine o'clock Eastern,
eight o'clock Central, with all the good stuff on previ

(02:55):
you and Monday show tonight. Breg, how are you doing today?

Speaker 3 (02:58):
I'm good, James. Usually it's this play. I'm kind of
excited looking forward to another episode of Money in Iran,
But because this show has tasted, it's I'm a lot
less eager to get to this because as everyone know,
it's not really big ever has in that tape show,
So let's crutch through it.

Speaker 2 (03:14):
I guess yeah, and you know, kind of against the
lineup for tonight's show, it's not great. You know, it's okay.
They have a scene, a mismatch that I mean, that's
something that I mean, you can build the entire show
around that match with sort of missus journey from being
a scrub, you know, kind of nipping that scene his

(03:35):
heels last years. Now he's you know, recognized as one
of the one of the top stars in the Raw brand.
You can build the entire show around that, and yet
it just kind of feels like another match, Like you said,
that has a take feel to it. It's kind of
there's a little bit a letdown after the Nexus, uh,
you know the way that played out at SummerSlam and

(03:55):
last week's Raw, you know, mixed reactions, kind of a
flat feel. I mean, what are you kind of expecting
for tonight's show in terms of are they gonna rebuild
momentum or is it gonna be sort of this feels
like the exact same field we had after Summer Slam
last week.

Speaker 3 (04:12):
Well, I do kind of feel the same way as
after SummerSlam, where Nexus had so much promise and they
had so much to gain in that match and didn't
come away looking all that strong. They didn't look weak
by any means, but they didn't look great. They didn't
look as good as WWE because it made them love
and you know, you kind of get the feeling, the
same feeling after watching last Mondays for All, where yeah,

(04:34):
they got six wins and only one lot, but only
about two of those wins were clean and it just
didn't It was kind of a backhanded win and they
didn't come off as strong as they could have last week.
So coming off last week's straw, I kind of feel
the same way as coming off Summer Slam, and I
do hope this week they do do something to strengthen Nexus.

(04:59):
I mean, I don't know the battle goes from here.
We've seen Nexus against t WWE. I don't think they're
going to go that route again. Yet the Nexus is
stronger as a group than it is with an individuals
because basically the only way Barrett stands out to me,
So you kind of want to keep them together as
a group. But you know, I'm looking forward to what

(05:20):
they do this week. I haven't read any spoilers, you know, James,
I'm staunchly against spoilers of any kind, so I have
avoided them at all. Costs this week, and despite the
fact that it's a tape show and I know it's
not going to be as strong as as a live
show would be, or you know, I'm not looking forward
to it the way I look forward to live shows.
You know, I do kind of hope that something happens

(05:43):
to kind of turn Nexus's fortunes around.

Speaker 2 (05:47):
I hope so too. And I mean just kind of
looking the lineup and not I mean, I already forgot
the spoilers after kind of reading them last week, but
They've already slipped my mind and I've just gone over
the lineup.

Speaker 4 (06:01):
For the show.

Speaker 2 (06:02):
It's just I just don't get the sense that that
w B put is going to put in the effort
on this week's show to rebuild Nexus in terms of
making them seem like a threat. And perhaps you know,
there's something that we missed and the spoilers or maybe
something that's missing from that lineup of matches that tonight's
show where they will and it'll be a pleasant surprise

(06:24):
where Nexus will feel more like a threat, like they
do have some momentum going forward. I'm just roy concerned
after the end of that Summer Slam pay per view
main event and then exposing those guys as individuals on
Raw last week, and then you have Skip Sheffield going
down with what sounds like a major leg injury on

(06:44):
the Raw House Show in Hawaii on Wednesday. I don't
know where they go from here with Nexus, and we
kind of have a pull up on Peter b tours
dot Com on what do they do with Nexus with
a lot of these kind of circumstances changing, Greg, Should
they add some members of the next ten season two
to this group? Should they kind of waited out and
rebuild with who they have? Should they scrap the storyline?

(07:08):
Where do you think they go long term with Nexus
headed into the fall season.

Speaker 3 (07:14):
I guess it all depends on where ww wants to
go with the storyline, how long they want to draw
it out. If it's only going to be another two
weeks or something like that, there's no point in adding
another member from the season two NFT group to that.
I think it would be interesting to do that, you know,
but the NXC season isn't where it isn't two weeks

(07:37):
and you can kind of have the winner depending on
who it is join Nexus. But yeah, I don't know.
You kind of feel like they would have to add
another member because these guys are rookies, and because they
are rookies, the one way that they can be intimidating
is with a group, and they're not as intimidating solo

(07:58):
because they just haven't earned it in the fans' eyes
as singles wrestlers or as a smaller group. So you
one of kind that I would think if you were
WW and you wanted to continue this angle for some time,
you would want to add a few more members, and
it would make sense to do it off the NFT
season two season two roster because the complaints that Next

(08:22):
has had when they first invaded her off could be
applied to the season two guys and that you know,
they were forced to do stupid contests that had nothing
to do with with wrestling. That was one of way
Bear's complaints, I believe, and you know, the thing could
be said for the season two groups. So they could
still do that, but I'm not really sure you know

(08:46):
where WWE wants this to go and how long they
wanted to run, so I'm not completely still they're going
to do that.

Speaker 2 (08:53):
Yeah, and exactly what they added the contest, I mean
in the kissing contest made a lot of other kind
of joke contests. I remember even Husky Harris, you know,
starting in character, but he kind of mocked the kissing
contest on Twitter after it went down. I kind of
thought maybe that was planting seeds for him to join Nexus.

(09:14):
And you know, he was eliminated in the last week's show.
You know, we'll kind of see what they do with
the season finale next week. But I think Husky did
a great addition to Nexus. And he's already got.

Speaker 3 (09:26):
That stare down that uh yeah, he's got the stare
and that's that's half the balance right there.

Speaker 2 (09:32):
Yeah, he can kind of he gotta be their their
Skips Sheffield, you know, and be that that muscle, that
big dude who is intimidating. So I wanted to see
him in that group. I think he'd be a good
addition to add and you know, the sea the seeds
are planted. He's sort of an anti w W kind
of a guy in the Kobe rhodes Man, the Kody
Roads on n XT last week just went off on

(09:54):
everyone and in the building, I thought, I thought it
was a really fascinating I don't segment on an NXT.
I don't know how we got into an NXT discussion,
but Greg, well, what were your thoughts on that final
segment on last week's show with Cody and Husky Aerrs
and the brawl with Cabal Just for a random subject,

(10:15):
what were your thoughts on that?

Speaker 3 (10:17):
Well? I kind of addressed it in my round table
that we posted a few days after NXP air, and
it just it felt really weird. It felt very spur
of the moment, and it didn't feel planned, which is
nice to have every once in a while, certainly if
it's done correctly. I thought this was kind of a
weak brawl. I feel like most of the guys didn't

(10:38):
know what they were doing, like who they should be
fighting with. I thought some of the actual moves used
in the brawl were kind of weak because I had
a little tentative, maybe because they weren't sure what was
going on. So it certainly didn't have that air of
not being planned. But the downside of doing things like
that is that it comes across as a bit amateurish.

(10:58):
I thought that's how it came across on Tuesday.

Speaker 5 (11:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (11:03):
I mean, especially with the camera shots, I think the
it almost like a TNA brawl because the cameramen weren't
in the right place, the directors weren't catching the action.
I think there was one shot where, you know, somebody
was looking up well kind of looking up above their head,
and you said to say, what are they looking at?
And then there's a shot of Cavala coming down on
Husky airs, So they kind of missed that shot. So

(11:25):
you're right. The drawback of presenting what seemed to be
a realistic fight, or at least, you know, sort of
an unscripted brawl, is that you're gonna miss a lot
of that story.

Speaker 6 (11:37):
You know.

Speaker 2 (11:37):
At some points I thought that was, like you said,
it was kind of good in some respects because it
didn't feel manufactured. But again, the you know, kind of
missing the shots and guys you know, who to pick
a who to pick a fight with, and then you
have kind of MVP running down there in the street clothes.
It was I mean, I thought it was good overall,
but like you said, there were some drawbacks to that.

(11:58):
So it's just fast. It's just kind of a fascinating.
The whole show is just fascinating for so many different reasons,
most of them not really for good reasons, And that
was one of those just fascinating looks into a show
that you know it is what it is. It's just
it's just odd hour of television. So I don't know,

(12:21):
I just want to kind of bring that up, uh,
talking about ten minutes here on WWE. Of course, we'll
take your phone calls on TNA tonight as well. TNA
is currently taping this week's Impact episode in Orlando. I'll
be getting a lot of notes after the show, which
we put it up on p B torch dot com
from that taping. They also have a taping tomorrow and Greg,

(12:42):
they had a ratings to last week's show that came
in pretty poorly, uh, in terms of where they were
in the summer, and then kind of dropping down to
where they were in June when they were blow at
one point er rating.

Speaker 6 (12:53):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (12:54):
Greg, Before we jump in the phone call, it's just
your reaction to the TNA Impact ratings and it kind
of anything that jumped out at you from the numbers
that they drew on Thursday.

Speaker 3 (13:06):
The ratings for PNA just don't surprise me anymore. Whether
they're up a tick or down a tick, they just
seem to have that core audience that watches them every
week and then it fluctuates from there. So I mean
it's worth looking into the ratings certainly and following and
tracking it week by week, and if you're Dicky Carter,
a minute by minute. But you know, it's not something

(13:29):
that I mean, we're not going to have all of
a sudden, overnight, this big increase in ratings. And I
really don't think we're going to have that even over
a long period of time. I don't think we're going
to see it incrementally rise every week until I get
to a level where they would be comfortable going back
on Monday nights. I just think the ratings are what

(13:51):
they are and it's not going to change much.

Speaker 2 (13:56):
Yeah, you said right, hardcore. They have a hardcore fan
base that kind of tunes in every week and if
there's something else on TV, like a football game or
USA Network programming or anything else, you know, Jersey Shore,
that's gonna grab sort of those fringe viewers. They're you know,
they're not hooked in the product, just the trend. The

(14:16):
long term trend is that they'll sample it for a bit,
but they won't stick around. Perhaps it's because of the
TNA title change, you know, kind of stripping rvidee of
the title, whether it's you know that they tune in
for the ECW stuff and now they're that was cool
now or now it wasn't cool and I'm tuning out.
So they have their rd core fan base, they can't

(14:37):
build an audience. That's kind of the story of this company.
So we'll talk more about that if you want to
jump in the phone lines and give us a call
on TNA. Of course WWE and I was at the
Strike Force the MMA show on Saturday where Bobby lash
Bobby Lashley suffered his first MMA career loss, so I'll
be we'll probably talk about that later in the show
that wants you want to bring that up in a

(14:58):
phone call, m's the number to call it is six four,
six seven, two one nine eight two eight. You want
to jump on the phone lines and talk wrestling with
us up until raw tonight.

Speaker 1 (15:11):
You can support us on Patreon and get these shows
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(15:33):
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Speaker 2 (15:41):
Let's go and grab our first phone call today, and
this is from the four oh four area code. Four
oh four. Welcome to the show, Please station n me
where you're from.

Speaker 7 (15:50):
Hey guys, this is Elliott from Atlanta.

Speaker 8 (15:52):
How's we going?

Speaker 9 (15:53):
Good?

Speaker 2 (15:54):
Elliott? What do you have for us today?

Speaker 10 (15:56):
With Darrnam being kicked out on Nexus and him being
h c M Punk Rocky an excuse season one, do
you see him hopping over to SmackDown and building.

Speaker 7 (16:09):
Up se s since they had Serena finally have a
match and everything.

Speaker 2 (16:15):
Good question, Greg, what's your take?

Speaker 3 (16:18):
Yeah, that's an interesting thought. I hadn't thought about that,
and especially it makes sense now that CM Punk is
really bringing the hammer down on Joseph Mercury and uh
the gallows and he might.

Speaker 2 (16:32):
Want to anybody, says Joseph Mercury.

Speaker 3 (16:35):
Greg, Oh, it's from Striker. I don't know if he's
exactly going by that, or Jillie Mercury, but I like them,
Striker says it, so I'll carry on the tradition here.
So you know, it would be interesting for Punk to
kind of bring him in at the example that he
wants Gallows and Uh and Mercury to follow. But part

(16:55):
of me also thinks there should be some sort of
revenge factor on his mind for or Nexus. You know,
you've got Daniel Brian now and Darren Young were both
and kicked out of Nexus and they that would be
kind of an interesting tag team. You know, Daniel O'Brien
is already booked up with them, is probably true True
Riders Champion, So you know, you may want to hold

(17:18):
off until after that. Again, if Nexus is still around
after that, I don't know how long they'll be a
plant to keep them around, but that's certainly something to
look into as far as you know, maybe doing some
tag matches with a couple of Nexus, having Daniel Brian
and Darren Young. I think those you know, going to
SmackDown and being with a straight out of Society, or
you know, kind of teaming up with Daniel Brian and

(17:39):
if they both have something in common. Now, I think
both of those ideas certainly.

Speaker 2 (17:46):
Are worth looking into, and especially when you have the
nine hundreds episode of Row coming up the next live
show next Monday, and the SmackDown crew is going to
be on that show. So there's some potential to maybe
plant some sea or have you know, depending on you,
said Greg, depinion on how far this next to the
storyline is carried out with all these changes, you know,

(18:08):
there is potential to have Darren Young and see the
Punk kind of interact and that perhaps plant seeds for
something down the line if they go that rounde. I
thought they had some really good TV on SmackDown during
nixt season one. I mean, Greg, you covered that with
Punk and and Darren Young and STS and they they
were trying to get him to join the group. I
thought there was some good chemistry there and I thought
that helped elevate Darren Young uh in that program. So

(18:32):
I and Elie could bring up a really good point,
I'd be in favor of seeing of seeing that perhaps
down the road, and after they get through this phase
of whatever they want to do with Darren Young after
he was kicked out of the group, you know, does
he kind of turned babyface and hook up with Daniel
Bryan does he hohok cup with John Cena and form
the you know, the the new Generation Team three D.

(18:53):
You know what do they do? So, you know, it's
a really good point to bring up, elliotts, I'm glad
you brought that up. Neither a question or follow up. No,
you can just sleep on a little baby.

Speaker 4 (19:03):
Awesome.

Speaker 2 (19:04):
Sure, thanks for the colle Elliott, appreciate that. Let's continue
on to the four oh two area code four oh two.
Welcome to the show. Please state your name of where
you're from.

Speaker 11 (19:16):
Hey, it's real from Minkel, Nebraska.

Speaker 2 (19:18):
Oh real, it's Monday. I forgot your numbers. That's Terrapath.
That's all right.

Speaker 11 (19:24):
Can I just say first of all that if John
Tanna and Darren Young team up and they got buy
anything other than the New Age Team three D, I
will be really upset.

Speaker 4 (19:34):
That's awesome.

Speaker 2 (19:37):
Maybe, I mean there's a report out there that you know,
Team three D has worked their final dates for TNA.
I believe p tow Insider Dot Content or report on that.
So who knows, Maybe we'll get to see Team three
D against John Cena and Darren Young and it'll be
an old versus new who knows. I don't know anyhow,
I'll tell you what do you have first?

Speaker 11 (19:57):
Well, actually add a couple of questions for you guys.
One is, I think pretty straightforward. So when we hear
about the demographics like TNA and Raw viewers and all that,
how in depth does that they determine?

Speaker 3 (20:11):
You know, who is a male eighteen.

Speaker 11 (20:14):
Thirty two or what have you, and who is a
grandma watching Raw with their grandkings.

Speaker 2 (20:18):
Yeah, I mean it's a it's a scientific I mean
what Wade Keller can explain this in depth? And what
my understand is that you know, they have the Nielsen ratings,
have their their boxes, their diaries, they have all their
different metrics to measure who exactly is sitting in front
of the TV watching and they take a sample and
and that's how they generate their demographic rating is based

(20:39):
on their sample, uh in the data they collect and
they've they you know, they've collected this over a series
of decades to have a scientific, scientific rating of who
exactly is watching what programming. So I mean it's a
I mean, advertisers use it. It's a proven demographics system,
proven demographic ratings, a system of measuring demographics. So I mean,

(21:04):
it's an accurate you know, it's an accurate system that
they have and I couldn't sit here in detail the
exact specifics, but you know it's based on a sample
size that they believe is an accurate depiction of who's
Washington program.

Speaker 11 (21:18):
That kind of answer your question real yeah, yeah, absolutely, okay.
And my other question real quick is, uh, you know,
there's been a lot of talk lately about making new stars,
and you know, new stars it's a old stars and
guys over forty What would you guys say? And I'm
sure is different from person to person, but what would

(21:39):
you say it is a qualification for someone being a new.

Speaker 3 (21:42):
Star versus being established?

Speaker 11 (21:44):
I mean, do you look at someone like stam Punk
who's still relatively new to do to be but it
has been championed before. Is he an established star versus
Seamus who, even though this is a second title reign,
you know he's still something like Newark's still within his
first cup years. You know, how do you distinguish someone
new from someone established?

Speaker 2 (22:04):
Good question, Greg, do you want to go ahead and
take that first?

Speaker 4 (22:07):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (22:08):
I guess I would think of someone who is established
as someone who has had an extended orun in the
main events, not necessarily as champion, but you know that
tends to come if you're on top for any kind
of period of time. I would still consider Seamous a
new star. I don't think he has a longevity yet

(22:29):
to be called an established star. I you know, there's
no hard and fast rules certainly for it. It's almost
like a field if you get you know, if someone's headlines. Again,
there's no certain amount of pay per views, but you know,
and it's it's not really a bad thing if you

(22:49):
have established stars, if you were creating interesting storylines with them,
I think, and.

Speaker 8 (22:56):
You know, there's that.

Speaker 3 (22:58):
That push for new starts being pushed at the top
is when you get established stars at the top that
have kind of cycled through all the opponents they can
run with, and there just aren't any interesting stories coming
out of creative for them. That's when you see that
push for new stars. I think if you guys guys
on top who are relatively young, relatively new like Shamouth,

(23:20):
who haven't gone through the cycle of wrestlers who haven't
you know, don'el.

Speaker 8 (23:25):
Like Triple Ah has where.

Speaker 3 (23:26):
He's fought or several times he's feud. We've seen that
several times, and you know, it just cycles back to
the top at the end. I think if you have
quote unquote established stars at the top who are still
getting interesting stories that keep you captivated and keep you interested,
I don't think that pushed for quote unquote younger stars

(23:48):
or newer stars is going.

Speaker 12 (23:49):
To be as big as it is if you have.

Speaker 3 (23:52):
If you're in that rock where WWE was just a
year or two ago when they had Triple A Jordan Sia,
you know, in a three parts feud for simil months
of the year and you felt like the scene of
Afar and then you say, okay, let's put someone new
into that mix to fresh night up. And I think
it is all about really having a freshman a vaccine
and cycling guys in and out so you're not seeing

(24:13):
the same guys fight each other every month.

Speaker 2 (24:16):
Yeah, I mean, there's not an exact line to draw that.
I think, Greg, you made a great point on when
a guy is kind of cycled through all the available
main event level of talents and the audience is still
clamoring to see to see more, and they're they're paying
to see that guy in a program that's kind of
when you kind of get established star. And I mean

(24:40):
Seamus isn't there yet. I mean he's only gone through
what Triple H and a little bit of John Cena.
I mean even a little bit of Triple Ah. They
only had a two or three month program. I mean
there's a whole other chapter of that story. Seeing Punk.
You know, he had a he had a you know,
hit a couple of different programs where he was in
the main event picture, but you know, he hasn't really

(25:00):
been consistently featured in the main event. Same with Jack Swagger.
He had you know, three or four a month rain
as a main eventure and as a as a champion
on SmackDown, and he is not there yet. So it's
kind of you know, Triple Ah went through everybody, and
you know, obviously he's an established star from way back
in the Editude era. A lot of it, you know,
a lot of it in today's era is you're considered

(25:22):
an established star if you're on TV in the Attitude
era and you're still around because the audience still wants
to see whatever you can contribute. I mean, gold Dust
is and mean he's been around forever. Caine Kane is
obviously been established Stark because he's been around forever and
he's still in the main event scene and people are still,
you know, paying attention to what he's doing. So I

(25:44):
think a lot of it is longevity, and once you've
kind of gone through those cycle of opponents, people still
want to see what you have left to offer, and
that's kind of when you're established as Yeah, this guy's
a star. I mean John Cena. I mean, if you
look at who's who's become an established star in the
last five years, I'd say probably John Cena, Randy Orton.

(26:05):
Are you're really your only two new editions, Raymond Cirio, Yeah,
I mean y Raymond Cierro. I'd say it might be
up there too, and that that's the thing is that.

Speaker 3 (26:15):
Who who did you say, does Batista fit in there?
Or before that?

Speaker 2 (26:20):
Yeah, I would say I would say Batista would be
obviously he's not there anymore, but yeah, I would say yeah,
I would say so with with the the Fortune Horseman evolution,
there you go. If you go through the names of
the stables, uh, with that evolution association in the follow
through to be his own guy running through Triple Ah,

(26:41):
John Cena, Randy Orton and having one of his best
programs of his career on the on the way out. Yeah,
i'd say he adds He's added to that mix. So
it takes time. I mean, it's so much of its
longevity and can you stay on top. You know, Seamus
has been I mean he's been featured since December. I

(27:02):
mean when he won his first title against John Cena
at TLC in December. He's pretty much been on top
consistently throughout that, even when he was uh, you know,
working with Trump lateh at WrestleMania. That was a feature matchup.
So it's it's longevity, consistency. The start stop pushes don't help,
you know. I mean, Greg, you see that on SmackDown

(27:24):
over and over again, the start stop, start stop, hot cold.
So it's just it's longevity. It's it's can you cycle
through opponents and still have people want to see what
you're doing. So there's no real scientific explanation for it.
A lot of it is just kind of on a
case my case basis reality. So is that kind of
answer your question?

Speaker 4 (27:45):
Yeah, it does.

Speaker 2 (27:46):
I was just like a fit.

Speaker 11 (27:47):
I was kind of curious about that because you know,
you have guys like like JBL, Like when he got
his big push, you know against Eddie Guerrero, it was
kind of all of a sudden, And I would hardly
call him a new star because I though we've never
been seeing that main event level, you know, when he
got moved there all of a sudden. You know, the
guy has still been him at the company for how
long or even a guy like Nash has been around

(28:07):
since two thousand and four but has never been at
that level.

Speaker 2 (28:10):
You know, would he be.

Speaker 3 (28:11):
Considered a new star?

Speaker 11 (28:13):
I mean I still think he would, but I was
just kind of curious in terms of how the world
looks at it.

Speaker 2 (28:19):
Yeah, I think miss needs more time. I mean just look,
I mean we're kind of talking about this in the opening.
He was, you know, disnipping at seeing its heels this
time last year, and now he's he's established himself as
a star. But you know, he doesn't have that signature
match in his resume. He hasn't had a long main
event run. He's sort of been you know, he worked

(28:40):
with Our Truth for a while a couple of months ago.
That's not you know, that's not main event level stuff.
He wasn't even doing me event level promos. Until after that.

Speaker 4 (28:48):
So you know, Jim Good, Yeah, I.

Speaker 3 (28:51):
Think there's we need to differentiate here. But seen established stars,
which would have been to use reality example, which would
have JBL before his main event plush he was an
established star, and then we have established main inventors, which
he was not. So he was in that kind of
in between. So I think there's two different categories that
we're talking here, established stars, established main inventors. Uh, And

(29:14):
I think there is a distinction between the two.

Speaker 4 (29:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:17):
You can almost look at Eddie Guerrero when he I mean,
he was an established star in w E before he
had his first hed ter reign, but you know, other
circumstances were in play. He didn't really have anyone to
feud with, and that's why they they split off JBL
from the acolytes and turned them into the you know,
the JVL that we know today. But Eddie wasn't really

(29:37):
accepted as a main event star. You know, he was,
he was a star, and you know he drew okay
as as a champion, but he wasn't really accepted as
the main event level star. So yeah, you're right, Greg,
you have to make that distinction on how you define that.
You know that's not all Eddie's fault. That was lack
of stars on SmackDown, lack of heels to shoot with us,

(30:00):
and just an overall down. Ww's business was just down
at that time. They just lost brock Lester and there
was Eddie trying to take over. So yeah, I mean
it's a lot of you know, kind of like I said,
it's come a case by case with a lot of
different factors in play. Yeah, good point whereg kind of
differentiating that.

Speaker 13 (30:21):
Need an extra dose of positivity in your wrestling podcasts,
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(30:44):
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(31:06):
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Speaker 2 (31:27):
We know anything else for us or any other question? No, guys,
that's it.

Speaker 3 (31:31):
Off the show as always, and I always keep listening.

Speaker 2 (31:33):
To very good. We appreciate the call real again. You're
listening to the PW Torch livecast. This is PW Torch
Assistant editor James Caldwell joined by Torch's columnist Creig Parks,
and we want to go ahead and get in a
plug a new announcement that we posted on pdb torch
dot com today. Our p tow Torch app is now

(31:55):
available in the Android market. We launched on the iPhone
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we just launched in the Android market today, so you
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Wrestling Torch if you use the Android as your app

(32:15):
store on your mobile device, So definitely want to check
that out. I have the on my iPhone, of course,
I have the P two B Torch app and I
check it regularly as I post stories, as I always
fall along with Greg you cover SmackDown on Fridays, and
I fall along with your coverage on my phone if
I'm out to eat on Friday night. So we definitely appreciate,
definitely appreciate having that app available to read your covers.

(32:38):
So a subtle plug for your report there, Greg.

Speaker 3 (32:41):
Oh, thanks Jasa, I appreciate anyway people are able to
read my hearts.

Speaker 2 (32:47):
There you go illegal away, I should say, indeed, good good,
glad you slipped that in there. Yeah, So the Android
market now is Pro Wrestling Torch ready with the pdn
B Tour app available in the Android market. So we
want to go ahead announce that n have a big
deal for us today announcing that as you roll out
more uh, as you roll out the app and more market,

(33:09):
so be sure on the lookout for that and more
announcements on pbtorch dot com. Let's grab another phone call.
Let's go to the two one five Eric code two
one five. Welcome to the show for you. Say your
name and where you're from.

Speaker 6 (33:24):
Hey guys, Travis here ripped in Philly and the East
Coast Audio show.

Speaker 9 (33:28):
What's Up?

Speaker 2 (33:29):
Goes audio? What's going on? Man?

Speaker 8 (33:32):
Hey guys, d on What's up?

Speaker 2 (33:35):
A lot?

Speaker 9 (33:35):
What do you?

Speaker 14 (33:36):
Well?

Speaker 9 (33:37):
Well?

Speaker 6 (33:37):
Number one on the app. As soon as I saw
had come across, I was checking my phone Twitter or
Facebook or something and I saw it went got it.
I've got the greatest phone in the world, the HTC EVO, and.

Speaker 2 (33:49):
It's a personal a personal shot for real from Nebraska.

Speaker 6 (33:52):
He knows what I'm talking about. But all you all
you all you iPhone people, you know you you kind of.

Speaker 4 (34:01):
Jellous for your phone.

Speaker 3 (34:02):
There's there's a there's a there's a new there's a.

Speaker 6 (34:04):
New king in town, so to speak.

Speaker 3 (34:06):
Okay, they wasn't. Well, No, that app is great.

Speaker 6 (34:10):
I rated it, and I want to let everybody know
when you're download to get it rated and make it
legal comment that'll make you know. The people that don't
listen and stuff get it.

Speaker 4 (34:18):
So well.

Speaker 6 (34:20):
My question, well, my question is last week last week
on on Raw, Darren Young, and it seems like the show.

Speaker 2 (34:28):
Is very Darren Young focused.

Speaker 6 (34:30):
Uh. I think they have something. If he could learn
to work, he could he could he could be something.
But my question is last week when they when they
beat him down and kicked him out of the group
for standing up, showing leadership, challenging the top guy, and
actually having a relatively decent you know, match board something

(34:54):
I have seen. You know, he he took it to him.
You know, at least they discounted that that was didn't
that wasn't good enough as a flukey win over Edge
or Orton by count now or beating Truth and Morrison
in a tag match, those two with both with heel
tactics and cheating everything. I don't remember with his face

(35:15):
that Darren Young healing it up in his match was scene.
I could be wrong, but he just took it the
scene ahead maybe one or two can you know, not
really convincing, but one or two near falls I don't remember.
But but he took it to scene and they kicked
him out, and it just makes I think it makes
next to this look look kind of just really silly
and nobody I don't think has.

Speaker 2 (35:35):
Bought that up. So you bring up really good point
for Travis, And I don't know if w B is
even thinking along those lines, but if they are, it
will make it a very interesting storyline twist. If Wade
Barrett says, you know what, Darren Gun's loss looked a
lot better than you. Heath Slater will a count out win?
What was the other chief finish the Justin Gabriel over

(35:57):
Randy Orton by basically by a count out. So, Dravis,
you have a really good point that perhaps if they
would be as smart about this, Wade bart will kind
of go down the line and say, uh, you know,
Dy're young, you had a better showing than these other
guys who won, and that's not the kind of wins
that that's not the kind of performance that we're looking for.

Speaker 6 (36:14):
So actually, actually, yeah, before before Greg jumps in, let
me say I thought it would work the other way,
with him becoming seen his buddy and seeing the saying,
you know, cutting the promo on with young backstage or
something like you're the only guy you stood up. You
took on the toughest guy in the company, and you know,
I gave it all I had and I.

Speaker 2 (36:34):
Want you to you know, I want to groom you.

Speaker 6 (36:37):
You know, everybody already thinks you're you know, you're you're
the brown seen it, So let's make it official. And
you know you can have a stable of young dudes,
him and Evan Barne, and you know that he can
mentor ourselves. So that's the way I'm thinking.

Speaker 2 (36:48):
Yeah, No, that's a good that's definitely good too.

Speaker 4 (36:52):
Greg.

Speaker 2 (36:52):
What's your reaction.

Speaker 3 (36:54):
One of the things that we didn't really discuss when
we talked about duringham to speak a little earlier on
here is that eventually he could be brought back to Nexus.
I mean as soon as the next week, if they
if Wade Barr says, okay, yeah, we beat you down.
Now there's your punishment for not winning, but now you
can come back, you know, so that that could be
a possibility as well. The thing and and I had

(37:16):
thought about how, you know, young stood up. He was
he was the man of the group, and you know,
took it on his shoulder to challenge John Cena, uh,
the unbeatable John Cena. So there was some part of
me that was expecting Nexus to give him credit for
that and allow him to stay in and group. On
the other hand, next is it heal grew and the

(37:39):
heel thing to do is to kick him out for
not winning, no matter what the surrounding circumstances were for
the other six wins.

Speaker 6 (37:49):
Most of the game members or heels too, and if
they recognize one of their guys, you know they're.

Speaker 9 (37:55):
I don't.

Speaker 6 (37:57):
The baddest guys are stupid it. I mean, people are
going to recognize man, did you see how he stepped up?
He might have got his ass whoops. But you know, man,
I would to pick a guy on my on my side.

Speaker 3 (38:09):
You know, And I don't know that's that's all. Well,
that that is something that you know, we could look
forward to.

Speaker 2 (38:16):
We'd bear it.

Speaker 3 (38:17):
Addressing uh that's that's the possibility that he addressed it
tonight or next week or you know, explains why they
kicked uh hearing none out of the group. And it
could be something as simple as you know, he we
we made the rule that if you didn't win, that
you wouldn't stay in Nexus. And it wouldn't be gentlemanly

(38:41):
of me to go back on my word and accept,
you know, young no matter what the certain blah blah
blah whatever. But you know that is something that I
could see Bart addressing as early as this week. You
know why, despite his performance, despite him taking on that responsibility,
because I don't think they would have had him if

(39:01):
they didn't want that to come into play. I don't
think they would have made a big deal about him
challenging John Cena. And you know right, I think it
would have been just an oh, by the way, you
know John Cena is gonna face bearing noun. But because
they made a big deal of it and had an
entire backstage segment devoted to him stepping up and challenging
John Cena, I don't think we've seen the end of

(39:22):
you know Young's interaction with Nexus or you know, Wayfarer
addressing this situation. I think that is something that will
be still to come.

Speaker 6 (39:34):
And Elliott had a good point earlier, maybe going to
smack down that was actually piecing idea listening earlier.

Speaker 2 (39:41):
Yeah, yeah, that was all I had here.

Speaker 6 (39:45):
No, that was it, And again, great show and I'm
gonna keep listening and then talk to you guys later.

Speaker 2 (39:53):
Travis, do you want to slip in a quick plug
for the East Coast Audio Show before you take off?

Speaker 5 (39:58):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (39:58):
Sure, how about that?

Speaker 6 (39:59):
East Coast Audio Show recapping NXT recapping SmackDown Me and
dre on on Wednesday at usually Wednesday mornings. You get
that or by whatever, get.

Speaker 9 (40:10):
That an x T recap.

Speaker 6 (40:12):
I guess by Wednesday or Thursday morning, I think get
the SmackDown recap usually Saturday or Sunday afternoon. Me and
Troy Cummings aka t Daddy Smooth on the boards and listen.
We're a raunchy show, so uh, you know, be prepared
for some raunch and some with some uh shenanigans. Let's
say the East Coast Audio Show. Give us a listen

(40:34):
and hopefully there's something bigger on the horizon.

Speaker 2 (40:38):
There you go, Travis. That's available in the Torch vi
I P audio section. I said, if you wanted to become
a follower of the East Coast Audio Show, they do
like like Travis said, two or three updates a week
for Torch VIP members. Be sure to give them a
listen and give them a chance to uh and become
a fan. Become a fan of the East Coast Audio Show.
Come to the underground recap show in it towards VIP

(41:01):
audio section with a pretty strong following by VIP members,
So good out Travis on the show with a little
little sund here with the VP with the East Coast
Audio show. In the live cast, I'm going to have
him on. Greg, Let's go ahead and grab another phone call.
Let's go to the eight three to zero area code
eight three Oh, welcome to the show. Please stay to
name where you're from.

Speaker 3 (41:23):
Hey, this is Jack from Texas.

Speaker 2 (41:25):
Hey, Jack, what do you have first say? Hey?

Speaker 3 (41:29):
How long do you think Grandy Owton's baby face turn
is going to be?

Speaker 2 (41:34):
Good? Question? Greg? What's your take?

Speaker 3 (41:37):
While the sky's the linette? You know, he's not going
to surpass John Cena on the Davy face code un
pole in WWE, even if he may get stronger reactions
here and there. And I think WWE has kind of
hesitant to completely pull the trigger on a full baby
face turn. He's still got some deal tendencies in him,
which is probably smart given his history as a heels.

(41:59):
It was hard for you know, maybe not for the
fans to get behind him after always have him, but
for the announcers and for the other wrestlers, it would
be hard to book him as a straight up baby
face because of everything that has happened. So, you know,
I think it's all dependent on the health.

Speaker 2 (42:17):
Of the roster.

Speaker 3 (42:18):
We've seen or Andy Orden can be a very good
baby face and he can be a very good heel.
I think he's one of the few that can really
pull off both very well. So, you know, depending on
the tilt of the roster as far as the baby
face and heel side with injuries and you know, movement
between Ron SmackDown and whatnot, I think, you know, he'll

(42:41):
be baby faced for a while or kind of semi
babyface area on Raw until the heel side kind of
crumbles due to unforeseen circumstances. So you know, I think
I think we'll see him as this semi baby face
for a while, but I wouldn't be surprised for a

(43:02):
heel peering down the line again.

Speaker 15 (43:05):
You know.

Speaker 2 (43:06):
The good thing about Orton's character is they can kind
of pivot back and forth on sort of those heel tendencies,
and they can I mean, they could have what he
did on last week's show, just absolutely going crazy on
Seamus and Gosh, I don't remember who else it was,
but you're just kind of in the midst has been
sort of victim of Orton as well, and just kind

(43:28):
of going crazy on people, and the crowd is eating
that up right now. And that's sort of something that
would have been vood before because he was such a
good heel and now they can, you know, they can
pivot back and forth on how that's presented and marketed,
and especially on who he's actually doing it to him,
And if he was doing that to John Cena, you
might get a different reaction than if he's doing the Shamus.

(43:49):
I think Orton is positioned as I think he's going
to be positioned as the top maybe page four, probably
two and three or four years. I really think that
just so they give their audience a different type of
top baby face than John Cena. I mean, John Cena
appeals to the John Cena audience, and they have that

(44:10):
audience that's sort of the backbone of them of their
financial business. Is John Cena appealing to those kids and families.
They also need to appeal to sort of the the
older teenagers, the older male demographic, and that's where Org
comes in. He's credible in the ring. He brings a
different type of baby face persona that appeals to a

(44:32):
much different audience. It appeals to a little bit more
of a hip or audience. So they need they need Sina,
they need or they need both of those guys strong
as babyfaces on top. You know, before it was kind
of d X was slotted kind of an Orton's Orton's
role kind of opposite John Cena as the top baby

(44:53):
face to act. Uh, you know, d X kind of
more appealed toward kids. But there are some I guess
there's a little bit nostalgia with the older crowd. Orton's
kind of slipped into that demographic, uh or sorry, slipping
that slot appealing to that demographic. So I imagine they're
gonna keep him as a top baby face probably for
a couple of years unless somebody else comes along that's

(45:15):
you know, ready to challenge or for that slot. I
don't see anybody else, you know, ready to do that.
So Seena Orton are probably gonna be your your two
top baby faces for a couple more years. And so
perhaps more than turn Turns heal most likely Orton.

Speaker 3 (45:30):
Yeah, you really brought up a great point, uh, being
that Orton has something to offer as a baby faith
to older fans that Seena doesn't. And when it was
just Sena as that really syrapy baby face appealing to
the you know, twelve and undercrowd. It's okay for WW

(45:51):
to cater to a younger audience, but you know, you
still want to you still need something there for the
older people. And yeah, they can move scena and they
can have fun doing that and going against the grain
doing that. These that the older teenagers of twenty somethings,
but there wasn't It's not the same as cheering someone. Yeah,
and I think it was a smart move by w

(46:12):
WE to kind of turn orton baby base and give
those people a different kind of baby faith to cheer
for someone that they're not, you know, someone that'sound out.
They're stewing catchphrases and making you know, stupid comedy for
for something our age of our age group would take

(46:33):
a stupid comedy, but the younger age group would like. So,
you know, I think the scena as a baby base
as the only option made. W W may have thought
that was turning the older, older fans off and that
they needed to kind of counteract a baby base with
just another kind of baby faith offering. And I think

(46:53):
it was a smart idea to do.

Speaker 2 (46:54):
So, Yeah, definitely on that.

Speaker 1 (46:58):
We're about to go to a commercial Why listen to
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(47:19):
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Speaker 2 (47:31):
Jack any other questions or follow up?

Speaker 7 (47:34):
Oh yeah, one more question.

Speaker 3 (47:37):
If the Kaine and on Jacos, if that gets really hot?
You guys seen that going to WrestleMania and both of
them pointing their careers on the line, you know, for
a huge money match.

Speaker 2 (47:50):
Very very good question. I can see it happening. I
mean just just based on I mean, I thought King's promo.
I think kind of Wade capture this in his audio
up they do, you know, it's fit the context of
w B and sort of the ways you know, w
B has their own set of rules. So in that context,

(48:11):
I thought that was one of probably Kane's best career promos.
I just thought it was an epic promo that's fit
that that theme, and ww is sort of there were
set of rules. So I mean, Greg, do you see
that then be able to stretch a program out to
WrestleMania or how long do you see this thing going?

Speaker 3 (48:31):
I think if there were two new uh, I think
if there were two wrestlers who had been kept apart
for a while or who hadn't interacted at all in
the past, I think he could probably keep it going
towards WrestleMania. Wwly just doesn't book long term angles like
that anymore for this long. I'll let alone a few
that has played out as Kane and the Undertaker. I mean,

(48:53):
there is an advantage to having that kind of history
because you can play out that throughout, and that could
conceivably make the the feud longer because you have so
much more history to playoff of. But the fans are
gonna get restless because these two, you know, are not
physically in their prime and can't put on matches that
would I don't think keep people interested up until WrestleMania,

(49:16):
so you've got that working against you, and you've got
their history just playing of having fought against each other
so many times that I don't know that the interest
is there to have these two go that long, but it.

Speaker 12 (49:29):
Is something interesting to think about.

Speaker 3 (49:30):
It could be something where they do a really quick
few Now they ended after a night of Champions, which,
based on the way the feud has gone so far,
I wouldn't think that would be the deal because the
Angle has been treated so seriously up to this point,
and he would think the Undertaker would want to get
as much revenge on his brother as he could for

(49:50):
putting him in a quote unquote vegetative state. But I
think if they did a really quick short run here,
maybe two months or so, I think you could visit
that in a month or leading up to WrestleMania and
kind of restarted reignited there again. But but to continue
its full time through there, I just don't think. So
you've got you've got too many pay per views to
go through to carry out this feud, uh leading up

(50:12):
to that point, and you can't do one on one matches,
you know, every pay per view and expect people to
help pop a by rate to see these two white
at WrestleMania, even if there was a retirement step. So
it's interesting to think about. I don't think it.

Speaker 16 (50:26):
Would last that long.

Speaker 2 (50:28):
I well, I kind of have an idea of how
they could stretch it out, and like you said, Greg,
the biggest concern is there's so many pay per views
in between now and WrestleMania that it would be very
difficult to to kind of keep the momentum going from
August until you know, April sixth or seventh, whatever the

(50:49):
WrestleMania is next year. I mean, if they do pull
it off, they would kind of have to be that
third match you have. I would almost say skip n
Champions and find a way to not have that title
match the first one at Night of Champions and had
the first one at Hell in the Cell. But then again,
you kind of want to build toward to Hell in

(51:10):
the Cell match, So perhaps they do Night at Champions
and then perhaps they do the Hell in the Cell
for the rematch on October third, and then either they
kind of cool it off for a little bit or
they try to stretch it out with some tag matches
after that, and then at the Royal Rumble saying that
Kane is still your champion. The story of the Royal Rumble

(51:30):
is that Undertaker has to win the Rumble to get
another shot at Kane and get another shot at his brother,
and Undertaker wins Royal Rumble and that sets stuff to
blow off at WrestleMania, where you know, you can even
do a deal where Undertaker puts his streak on the
line and his career on the line, and Kane puts
his career on the line as well as the title.

(51:52):
So those are you know, that's one way to stretch it.
Can they do that? It's down to v you know,
and they have a lot of paper using through so
I don't know if they can if they can't get there,
but like you said, right, maybe they just do a
two month program right now and maybe kind of leave
it even and you know, either a DQ win for

(52:14):
Taker at Night Champions and then Kane retains and held
in the cell and Kane says that's it for you,
But then Undertaker kind of wins a World Rumble and
they set up the WrestleMania match. So you know, Amstrek booking,
what's your what's your reaction?

Speaker 4 (52:31):
Greg Well, First of.

Speaker 3 (52:32):
All, My reaction is, as someone who has to cover
smack Down on a weekly basis, for you to suggest
that Keene is Champion through a rumble kind of makes
me sick. I would hope that there's a better oction.
I understand giving him the title because of you know,
he's nearing the end and you know what he's meant
to the company, and his promos are still good and

(52:52):
probably better than they've ever been, and I think he
has a lot of good material to work with. That's
one of the reasons. But it still hasn't improved his
entering work, and I just shudder at having to sit
through his manes ten minute main event matches on SmackDown
that he'll be having it as likely as champion all
the way through January. So thank you for putting that

(53:13):
hot in my head. I really appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (53:14):
You're welcome. We could look forward to Kane and Antonio
del Rio or Alberto Oh my goodness, I said Antonio
Alberto del Rio were going for to those matchups in
the months come. I mean, Greg, let's talk about mister
del Rio a big splash on SmackDown. Before we get
to some more calls, Jack, we appreciate that call a

(53:36):
good question that we're an undertaker and Kane Greg Your
reaction to mister del Rio and his debut thumbs up
thumbs down? What stood out and what does he need
to improve?

Speaker 3 (53:47):
Well, I know I'm talking to you that you were
very high on his debut. I do think it was.
It was a solid debut. I thought the promo he
caught got a lot of heat for someone who that
was his first time. I and the televised WWE show, Uh,
you know, a lot of it could be that they
were he and Ray were kind of going back and

(54:07):
forth in Spanish and you know, you were you were
in an area with you know, I think Bakersfield they
were in, so I mean you have a decent sized
Spanish population there. I think, yeah, So you know that
that could be one of the reasons. But you know,
he held his own on the mic. I thought that
first segment was very good. I thought his match with
Ray Material was was good. You know, when you luck

(54:29):
out if your first televised match is against Ray Masterio,
because I mean, he's he's a guy that that you know,
you it's hard not to have a good match with
even at his agent with his injuries, so I was
I was impressed. Uh, I kind of got the you know,
with him driving out there, you get the JB L

(54:51):
rip off five and they have time to tweak that
a little. I liked him having his own ring announcer
that was that was a little unique. But uh and
the character does h I have that kind of JVL feeling,
So you know, I thought it was It was definitely
a thumbs up for his debut on Smack Thomas path Weet.

Speaker 4 (55:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (55:12):
I just like everything. I mean, the match is a
little bit slow, and you know, there's a little bit
of work to do in the ring, but I just
like the mannerisms. I liked the little hand gestures, the
eyebrow to things. It was.

Speaker 3 (55:26):
Yeah, it was kind of little yeah during during the
match and during the promo. I thought both both times.

Speaker 2 (55:32):
Yeah, and just in his ring insurance too, just like
he just kind of you know, walked to the ring
as if we were on his time and and and
you know, like he had bought twenty minutes of TV
time and he was intent on using all twenty minutes
of it, and we're gonna just sit there and sit
there all twenty minutes. I just I just liked it.
I liked everything, every subtle little thing and even the

(55:53):
little I mean he worked on Ray's shoulder throughout that match,
and then the camera zoomed in tight on his h
expression as he saw, here's my opportunity to lock in
my finisher, and just this this little look that he had,
which the camera really caught nicely before he slapped on
his finisher, the cross arm breaker. I just everything just
clicked for me at the end of that match and

(56:16):
just kind of combining out of the lake, like you
said direct the promo, U, the subtletees and annerisms, I
really like. I really like that debut. So uh, we'll
see where they go from here, but so definitely a
thumbs up for me on that. Down the last ten
minutes or so of the show, if you want to
jump on the phone lines, he gives us a call
right before raw. We have two people on hold, so

(56:38):
it's gonna be third in line. We'll try to get
three calls in at the end of the show today.
The number to call is six four, six, seven, nine eight.
Let's go to the four four area code four oh four.
Welcome to the show. Please stay tread and where you're from,
I can tell you again. Oh hey, hey, good dating

(56:58):
back on what do you have? Of course, Hey, I
just noticed something. KHQ just released the box.

Speaker 7 (57:04):
Art and the new ww uh SmackDown versus Rocking, And
on the cover I don't know if he getsn't seen
any but on the cover is uh John Cena the
Big Show and the Miz And I thought that.

Speaker 2 (57:15):
Was really interesting. Yeah, I mean if it's I mean
w B has really really really really really been pushing
the mis uh everywhere media. I mean, uh, Shane Mkimley,
who does our the Absurdity kind of the satire column
on p to B towrs dot com, uh, kind of
you know, kind of joked about that we're gonna see
miss on billboards and in urinals and bathroom sings, you know,

(57:38):
misses everywhere right now. You know, they're they're pushing him
as I mean, Michael Cole whatever CREDI willian Michael Cole
has as an announcer to the audience, has been endorsing
him and and that sort of deal. So they're really
trying to push him as a star. And I think
he's gonna live it up to it and he's he's

(57:58):
very ambitious. He wants to take dates, wants to go overseas,
promote the brand. You know, the miss is on the
rise and we're gonna see that on Tonight's show where
he faces John Tena. They're they're marketing tonight's show around
him and Sina out of the seven matches on the show,
so you know, it's it's uh, it's kind of fascinating

(58:19):
to see who they do put on the cover. It's
kind of like Maddens, who they put on the cover
each year, do to beg however they put on it's
kind of this is our guy. I mean, John Tena
has been on the cover so many times, but you
know they usually change up one or two guys. You know,
usually it's Undertaker or Triple HS. But adding the man
is you know, that's a big step for his career,
and that's you know, it's a small thing, but it's

(58:40):
pretty big, you know.

Speaker 4 (58:42):
I think, yeah, I think it's age.

Speaker 2 (58:44):
I think it really solidifies the fact.

Speaker 7 (58:46):
I mean, you know, it's time from everything else, the
money in the bank and the US title and all that.

Speaker 2 (58:50):
But if there's one thing.

Speaker 7 (58:52):
That to the non.

Speaker 2 (58:55):
You know, uh, obset them. You know, they look in
the store and they see that, Oh that's that must
be one of the top guys, even though they don't
know who it is. Yep, great point there, Elliott. Yeah,
anything else for us or just that observation, Yes, I
just noticed it's never play a vow back in cool.

(59:15):
Well I'm glad you did. Yeah, definitely adds on to
that miss uh the miss chocolate earlier. I mean, he's
bring up a really good point that, you know, to
a casual video gamer or to somebody who doesn't know
anything about WWE, they see this guy holding the mic
and looking kind of it's a shot of Miz on
the mic, which is probably the best way to show
him that this is his string, that that's show him

(59:37):
the ring. But yeah, showing him it looks it catches
your eye and you kind of want to know who
this guy is, and you know he's not Triple Ah,
he's not the Undertaker, he's not John Cena, who everybody
kind of already knows. He's a new different face to
put on that cover. Yeah, So a great point. It does,
you know, it should peak the interest of a lot
of different people kind of walking by that cover and

(01:00:00):
in the video game store. Good call. We appreciate you
call him back again, Greg, did you give me any
comments that on the mids coover He.

Speaker 3 (01:00:10):
Just wanted really quick, is that the team doesn't come
off for I think what October or November? This isn't
that why he's coming down? Yeah, so you understand why
w W would want to put an established star and
cover someone like John's. You know, our couple h someone
they know is going to be on top at that
time because they're playing months ahead when they make the cover.

(01:00:31):
So it is interesting that they're putting his on. Who
tells me they expect him to be a top star
at that time, So that's something else about that, a
different way to look at it.

Speaker 2 (01:00:40):
I guess that's a good point. I mean, at the
very beginning of the year, I kind of predicted that
we might see Hims as a champion w champion, you know,
become before the draft, so they could have been a
World aweight champion. But you know, kind of predicted that
he might be one of the top champions with the
end of the year, and I don't you know, there's

(01:01:01):
always that thought of all he'll be the first guy
to cash him one in the bank and not become champ.
I think it's gonna be champed by the end of
the year. And you know, I don't know if it's
gonna be a long rain, a short rain, nothing happening rain.
You know, he loses it in a week. But Greg,
I mean, do you see him becoming champion at you know,
this year? What do you think is could happen with
that briefcase? You know, I mean, what's your prediction on that.

Speaker 3 (01:01:26):
I was one of those who wouldn't have been surprised
if he was the first one to lose with the
briefcase coming off of WrestleMania, But he has put in
such strong performances since WrestleMania, and you can really see
that WWE is really behind him now. Whereas you know,
the last time he was pushed in that angle with Concina,
he was pushed back down soon after, so and that

(01:01:48):
doesn't look like it's the case now. So I kind
of changed my tune event and now I can definitely
see him wearing the or by the end of the year.

Speaker 2 (01:01:57):
Yeah, I really do, Like you said a great point,
add that that cover is usual an indication of who
they think is gonna be on top when that video
game comes out, and like you said, it's two or
three months, and I guess two months from now when
I'll be coming out. So it's a pretty good indication
that we're gonna be seeing a lot of minutes in
the main event seen at this time. I'm'm sorry at

(01:02:19):
the end of this year. It's a good point to
bring up there. Down the last couple of minutes or
so of the show, I wanted to sneak in a little
bit of Boby Lashley discussion being at the Strikeforce card,
and they also wrote a pretty lengthy call and that
will be in this week's Torch newsletter. Not quite mixed
Foley and forty four hundred words to Dixie Carter and himself,

(01:02:40):
but it was a pretty lazy discussion on what I
observed from that Strikeforce card being there in person, kind
of seeing a very different demographic that goes to an
MMA show compared to a WW show, and also just
the surreal nature of the reaction to Bobby Lashley's first
loss that went down out a very fascinating look at

(01:03:03):
uh being their lives, covering that the whole MMA experience
or Strikeforce and body Lash's first loss, Gregor what's kind
of in your reaction to last year's loss, and you
kind of see that he's got some work to do
in terms of getting back into uh in the competition.
And do you see him having a future in MMA

(01:03:23):
or what's kind of your reaction to this whole story
coming out of Saturday's a fight card.

Speaker 3 (01:03:30):
I think could have a future in m m A.

Speaker 4 (01:03:32):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (01:03:33):
You know, this loss certainly doesn't doesn't throw in too
far off track. I don't think it kind of you know,
with the bronck lessner, the stigma on pro wrestlers getting
into m m A isn't what it once was. But lastly,
he's certainly gonna have to work harder this time to
uh uh for a tech match. And you know, there's

(01:03:53):
part of him, I'm sure that wants to be taken
seriously coming from the pro wrestling background, So I think
that could be another motivating factor to get him off
where he needs to be.

Speaker 2 (01:04:02):
Yeah, definitely agree with that, And I think this next
week he'll probably take some time away and figure out
what he wants to do. And also that Matisa fight
and you know, Strikeford CEO Scott Cocher cit he thinks
it's likely and you know, does last. You want to
get back to the fight game that soon into the
Tatisa fight. That's the story that we're going to be
covering the next couple of weeks. Thanks Edmon for listening today.

(01:04:24):
Raw coverage coming up next.

Speaker 17 (01:04:34):
In twenty twelve, NXT transitioned into the developmental system and
ultimately the brand you see today. On the Torch VIP
podcast NXT Eight Years Back, we'll be taking a weekly
look at this page in NXT's early history.

Speaker 15 (01:04:49):
Join Kelly Wells and me Tom Stout from PWT Talks
NXT every Saturday as we go eight years back to
the day to track NXT's rising talents and why they
did or didn't work out exclusively for PW Torch vip members.

Speaker 2 (01:05:05):
Love Host Radio.

Speaker 4 (01:05:10):
Welcome to tw torts live cast. It is Tuesday, August
twenty fourth, two thousand and ten, and I am host.
Wade Keller, editor and publisher of the Pro Wrestling Towards
newsletter and PW toorts dot Com. Joined today as usual
on Tuesdays by Jason Powell of Pro Wrestling dot Net.

Speaker 9 (01:05:28):
How's it going, Jason, Good, Just trying to catch up
on everything after being away since last Wednesday. I just
got back to work yesterday and trying to catch up
on all that TV I missed.

Speaker 4 (01:05:37):
Yes, yes, I know the feeling. There's no uh, there's no.
There's no vacation that goes unpunished in our business.

Speaker 2 (01:05:43):
No.

Speaker 9 (01:05:43):
And I'm sitting I'm stuck. I'm watching Impact and I
had to hit pause to start the show, and now
I'm stuck looking at a image of Kevin Nash and
Sting Mike. Why couldn't it be the Beautiful People match
or something.

Speaker 4 (01:05:56):
Wait, wait till you get to the part if you
haven't yet. And last week's show where where Jeff Jared says,
I know what's what's upsetting you people? You're mad that
the focus has shifted to all the young guys, and
I just like froze the camera there and I'm like,
let's see Hogan Sting Nash, Bischoff, Jared earlier, Rick Flair
and every match that they had the older guy beat

(01:06:18):
the younger guy on that show, on and on. It
was all the whole show was built around older people.
It was like it was the reality of their show
doesn't match their narrative very well.

Speaker 9 (01:06:29):
No, it's I mean that from the start. As soon
as I saw on the seeds being planted for Nash
and sting As actually being the baby faces and them
worrying about the young guys and like great fifty year
old guys feuding with fifty year old guys about young
guys getting TV time.

Speaker 4 (01:06:42):
I know, yeah, I don't know if TNA management like,
I don't know Eric Bischoff and Jared and Dixie, like,
do they really believe Jay lethal is more over today
or the Pope is more over today than everybody thought
that they would be last December, before the whole Hogan
bishopling happened. You know, it's not just are they over
a little more than they were in January. Well, maybe

(01:07:03):
you could make that argument. I'm not here to debate that,
but I don't think anybody last November December thought they
wouldn't be further along than they are right now, because
this has been about I mean, just when we thought
we were done with Jarrett and Hogan, maybe being faced
down a little bit, got this whole angle with all
these guys that you've got a free framed on, plus
Tommy Dreamer and turning forty and you know, turning forty

(01:07:25):
later this year, Tommy Dreamer and turning forty soon, Rob
Van Dam and turning and already forty saboo. I mean,
it's just it's it's insane. It's the definition of insanity.
It's weird.

Speaker 9 (01:07:35):
Well, you know what I'm really getting worried about. I
was talking with Brian Fritz of Between the Ropes and
he threw out a scenario for Bound for Glory that
I really think is going to come to fruish and
this Kevin Nash and Sting thing. They really are going
to be the baby faces and Hogan and Bishoff are
going to do their big turn and Bound for Glory

(01:07:56):
because that's the site. Daytona Beach is the site of
where the Venturus showing big Hulkogan swerve shoot, whatever the
heck it was, moment occurred. And I'm not even doing
it justice. He laid it out perfectly, and I'm like,
oh my god, that's what they're going to do. They're
actually going to continue to live in the past and
stroll down memory lane for something that, yeah, some people

(01:08:17):
might remember it, but it's not like anyone's itching to
go back to that moment in time.

Speaker 4 (01:08:21):
That's the thing. I mean, you could you could lay
out a brilliant plan to relive the past. But you're
you're still reliving the past. You know, the TV writers
that that are making money today aren't thinking, I want
to write that great episode of Cheers. I've got a
great idea for Cheers. No, wait a second, it's twenty
five years ago. That show it'sn't on anymore, you know,

(01:08:41):
all the starts have moved on to other things. It's
just the idea that these people are trying to relive
their past and don't see what they're doing, and that
they're they've become one of those people, you know, one
of those exact same people that they didn't want to become.
You know, Mick Foley too. It's it's amazing. But anyway,
last night we had a pretaped Jason and we had

(01:09:02):
John Cena versus a miss. We had Wade Barrett getting
a title shot but then having it revealed that he
will be sharing that title shot with four other people.
The Fatal four Way lowesst pay per view by rate
of the year and lowest in a long time. Really
a failure, and so I guess they decide what they
was really missing from Fatal four Way were two other

(01:09:23):
challengers to money up the match even more.

Speaker 9 (01:09:25):
Yeah, I'm worried about that. I mean, I can see
where those six guys can have a really good match
and it can be entertaining. But if Fatal four Way
didn't sell, what makes him think this particular match is
going to sell? And I guess I'm even more concerned
that usually when WWE does this for the raw mats,
they'll do the same for the SmackDown match. So we're
gonna get two six pack challenges on Night of Champions,

(01:09:45):
and for me, the selling point of Night of Champions
it really should be every titles on the line in
a singles match.

Speaker 4 (01:09:53):
Yeah, I agree. I so am waiting for that first
paper view that where that they what what's advertised is
it's rare, it's novel, you've never seen it before. Seven
matches on this pay per view, one on one, no stipulations.
That is that to me, that is now breaking from

(01:10:14):
the norm. You know, four men or six men, or
this gimmick or that gimmick or this structure or that
cage or this briefcase or that contract or that thing
hanging from a pole or sticking on a pole or
hanging from the hanging from the ceiling. It's like, none
of that's novel anymore, it's just what's done. The most
interesting thing now would would beats have two wrestlers go
one on one, no stipulation, and they're fighting for the

(01:10:36):
thrill of victory and trying to avoid the agony of defeat.
I mean that that's the whole core of what sells.
Pro wrestling is so lost in this undisciplined let's top ourselves.
Oh last page TEENA is a little better about this
now than they were last year, but the whole whole
Jarrett dutch Man tell Russo Era when those three were
the main people running it every pay per view, Mike

(01:10:58):
Tinay had to like take this deep yes when he
read this explain the stipulations for these pay per view
matches are Don Westwood and it's like, oh, that pay
per view match will sell even better if the explanation
takes forty five seconds instead of just twenty to explain.
They're a little bitter about that now, but it's such
a crutch. It's such a crutch, and it's so the
creative team putting what they do ahead of what the

(01:11:21):
wrestlers do. And I do think one of the keys
needed is for somebody to run wrestling, run TNA, who
respects the idea that a really good wrestler can tell
the story in the ring that beats any gimmick that
you can throw on top of them.

Speaker 9 (01:11:34):
I couldn't agree more. Unfortunately, I just don't get the
feeling that there's going to be a major shake up
anytime soon. I get the feeling it's just business as
usual and the Paul Hayman thing. I mean, I guess
it could change, but right now, I mean, it just
doesn't look like that in the works.

Speaker 4 (01:11:50):
I'm really intrigued actually with the possibility that Paul Hayman
will work with Strikeforce. It's quite an analogy for those
who don't know about ma. UFC obviously the dominant brand,
and Strikeforce has a contract with with CBS and Showtime,
but they have a reputation for inferior talent and inferior

(01:12:10):
in many different ways. But sort of like T and A,
a few known UFC stars and then some intriguing young names,
you know, Robbie Lawler, Dan Henderson. I mean, there there's
some there's some decent names in Strikeforce, but it's not
the roster depth isn't nearly what what you'll see. So
Paul Haman considering both TNA and Strikeforce is interesting because

(01:12:31):
they're both similar in each in each sport or each genre.
I'm kind of intrigued with Paul Hayman would do because
there's a lot of different ways to present MMA, and
USC has evolved to present it a certain way. And
one thing I think Paul Hayman would do with Strikeforce
is say, let's let's market this completely differently than USC
markets it, or not not completely differently, like everything is
completely different, but distinctively. Let me put it that way.

(01:12:55):
We want to market Strikeforce in a distinct way that
would just have a real different vibe to it and
keeps the heart of what makes MM intriguing, but use
you know, jazz up the presentation a little bit or
quite a bit, because USC has never hasn't had to,
you know, it's not in their nature because they were
always fighting the idea that they might be fake or
that they're too violent. So USC always had to kind

(01:13:16):
of strip things down and be real bare bones, and
then they got so successful they barely market you know,
I mean, they're not very good on pay per view
around their TV shows of really getting personalities over because
they don't have to. The sports speaks for itself, but
Strikeforce needs more, a little bit more guidance, you know,
with the creative marketing hand. And so, Paul Hayman, if
you were to do something like that, I would be

(01:13:38):
really interested to watch, and I think even pro wrestling
fans would be interested to watch. Well.

Speaker 9 (01:13:42):
Yeah, and Strikeforce, any kind of marketing they do would
be an upgrade because you know, we hear about people
living in the wrestling bubble, and I'm convinced that the
people that run that company and live in the MMA
bubble because they don't advertise outside of the the MMA hardcorese.
I mean, I run a pro wrestling website. They have
Bobby Lashley. You know. Blame me for being a little
clueless and not looking this up, but I didn't even

(01:14:04):
realize Lashley was fighting on Saturday until someone mentioned it
late in the week, and that's you know, maybe that
says a lot about me, but I think it says
a lot more about them that they're just not even
getting the word out about these shows.

Speaker 4 (01:14:15):
Yeah. No, no, you're right there, They're not and you
know it. And one of the things to you know,
TNA said, Oh, we just needed to have more people
know about our product. And I would take it a
step further than what you're saying. And your criticis of
one hundred percent valid, but you don't want to lead
an audience to a product they're not going to like either.
And I think Paul Hayman would say, all right, we
need to get a higher awareness for this product, but

(01:14:37):
we need to change the product before we spend any
money letting people know that we exist, you know, because
I mean, you're right, they could have done better ratings
had they gotten worded out about Bbby Lashley. If they're
consident into their product and they want they want to
draw ratings, which is they definitely want to draw ratings,
they should have advertised lastly. But they need to change
how they present their product. They need to give people
and al it's like, you know, the whole Droid iPhone

(01:14:57):
war to be topical with with the blaunch of the
Droid applications this week. You know, Droid, there are fans
of Droid who who even though there's things about Droid
that aren't as good as iPhone, there's things that they
do that are better than iPhone. And you want to
have that debate because people like to kind of cling
to a brand and and have that loyalty. And I
think Strikeforce doesn't give anybody an MMA a reason to

(01:15:21):
say I like Strikeforce better. And here's why. There's nothing
they do that's different and better than USC. And I
think that's what Paul Hman understands is there has to
be something about the marketing of Strikeforce that that gives
people who are set with UFC or just like to
cheer for the underdog or look for something else in
their own a product, give them something to tell USC fans,

(01:15:41):
I wear a Strikeforce T shirt and here's why and all.
And I mean this, everything we're saying applies to TNA too,
you know. You you can you can say we put
a billboard in Times Square and the ratings went up.
Well yeah, but then people watch the product and they
went right back down, right and go ahead, Jason, Yeah,
that's when the problem all year, you know, every time
they bring new people to the to the to to
watch the show, the product just turns them right back away.

(01:16:02):
And look at what happened with EV two. You know,
ratings went down again last week.

Speaker 9 (01:16:06):
The one thing about Strikeforce and I think they have
an edge on UFC, and it's the one area is
Cyborg the female Fighters. Anal White has made it very
clear he doesn't want to go down that road. And
Gina Carano, which was the face of Women's MMA Cyborg
beat her and she's absolutely dominant, and I could really

(01:16:27):
see them getting behind her at some point. You'd think
they would have by now, but I just think they're
lost when it comes to marketing.

Speaker 4 (01:16:34):
I agree, Jason. Let's go to the phone lines. We
got about eight people on hold wanting to participate her. Actually, yeah,
eight people, So let's let's begin to take phone calls.
If you want to get in line, eight people on hold,
you might want to wait, or if you want a
best chance to get in the show late in the show,
dial it up now six four, six, seven, nine to
eight to eight.

Speaker 1 (01:16:55):
Anytime you're watching ww E, Rahwer SmackDown or aw Dynamite
in particular, send us an email if you've got thoughts
on the show, or a topic you want us to address,
or a question for us. Wade Keller podcast at pwtorch
dot com. Wadkeller Podcast at pewtorch dot com. If there's
anything else going on in pro wrestling that you want
us to address on our main podcast during our mailbank segments.

(01:17:17):
That same email applies Wadekeller podcast at pw toorch dot com.
We invite that interaction. Let us know what you think
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Speaker 4 (01:17:33):
Let's go to Erico nine five two. Please state your

Speaker 18 (01:17:37):
Yeah, this is Aaron from Shack.

Speaker 4 (01:17:38):
Top, Minnesota. Hey Aaron, what's up today? Yeah?

Speaker 18 (01:17:42):
I just want to get your thoughts on the travesty
that is during not getting fired from WWE.

Speaker 4 (01:17:47):
I'm sorry who not getting fired?

Speaker 9 (01:17:48):
Sherena getting fired, Serina.

Speaker 4 (01:17:49):
Getting oh getting fired. Yeah. I don't know enough details
now to know if it's an outrage. I think it's
in Jason, maybe you know more than I do on
this at this point, but I think the word that
we reported last night, James Caldwell had the story up
that that three Anda was fired for not leaving her gimmick.
I think some people are looking at that as saying
that they were expecting her to never drink alcohol at

(01:18:10):
a bar, and I think that might be a euphemism
for something more going on. I don't know, and so
I think we need more details. What have you heard, Jason, Yeah,
I mean.

Speaker 9 (01:18:19):
That's exactly how I see it, too. Is I think
there was some I mean partying that they did. They
weren't crazy, but I don't think James was trying to
say that exactly what you said, that they wanted to
live the straight edge lifestyle in public, like and Nexus
has to wear their armbands everywhere they got.

Speaker 4 (01:18:36):
I don't think we're like Bill Watts find like when
Bill Wats find a heel in a babyface for taking
a taxi together in the public. Thought, Wait a second,
you know they're not being old school in that way.

Speaker 9 (01:18:45):
No, I don't get that sense at all. And I
can't add a whole lot to the story, but I
am curious to know why the caller feels it's a
travesty without knowing all the more details, and if she
did something that's warranted, Am I missing something?

Speaker 4 (01:19:00):
Aaron?

Speaker 18 (01:19:00):
Well, I mean she was actually good in the ring,
and she's a good talker, at least better than most
of the women down there. But I guess I don't
know the details either, if they just get rid of
her just because they could or not.

Speaker 4 (01:19:10):
Yeah, I mean, I agree to you. I think Serena
was just fine as a character and had had a
real upside. I don't think she was fired because she
wasn't good. I mean Kurt Angle. Vince McMahon didn't send
Kurt Angle out of WWE because he didn't think Kurt
was one of the best wrestlers he had ever seen
and who could cut great promos. I mean he sent
him away because he was worried for him. And so
you can be super talented and it's and it's it's

(01:19:32):
a disappointment that she's not there in that respect, but
if there's a legitimate reason. I mean, this is a
very sensitive time for WDWE right now. You know, this
war of words with Chris Nowinsky that they have going on.
There was a subject of my progressing torture me with
ut her cover story this week is you know, this
is big time. I mean, Lenna McMahon has a chance

(01:19:53):
to become a senator, and they're I think they're going
to be real image conscious right now. They have other
motivations the health and welfare of the wrestlers. But but
add on top of what may be a genuine, genuine
uh attempt to keep their talent healthy and their roster clean,
there may be a case here where anything that could
could bite them. They want to they want to clear

(01:20:14):
clear their plate. Uff, Aaron, any follow it forth today
or is that it? Yeah?

Speaker 18 (01:20:20):
Just something on a lighter note. I've noticed seen his
new shirt is purple and like gold the Lakers colors
and no, those are the Viking colors.

Speaker 9 (01:20:27):
No, no, no, the Lakers can have seen it.

Speaker 4 (01:20:28):
That fine, I know, I know, go ahead.

Speaker 18 (01:20:33):
Do you think there's gonna be like a lot of
booing for him as in Boston? Since the Lakers like
big rivals.

Speaker 4 (01:20:41):
That's a heck of a point. It's kind of a
known situation Jason in Boston. I mean, he's either got
the Viking colors, not that New England Patriots and the
Vikings evel War. But if they're if people look at
him as Laker colors, yeah, that's a I mean, that's
that's bad. That's bad for the for the hometown crowd.

Speaker 9 (01:20:58):
Yeah, I guess I hadn't even saw about that, so yeah,
I guess it will be interesting to see how the
crowd reacts movie.

Speaker 19 (01:21:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (01:21:04):
I mean, it isn't like he's come out and and
endorsed at his Laker callers or anything like that. But
the fact that it debuted at Staples Center it makes
you wonder.

Speaker 4 (01:21:13):
It does. Yeah, thanks for call Aaron. Let's go to
the next call Erico nine three one, Please stay your

Speaker 3 (01:21:19):
Hey, it's Ian from Tennessee.

Speaker 4 (01:21:21):
Hey, Ian, what's up today?

Speaker 20 (01:21:24):
I have two real quick questions if you don't mind.

Speaker 4 (01:21:27):
Nope, you know, we only took one question on the show.
We never give callers a chance to say two things.

Speaker 20 (01:21:31):
Ah, well, I guess we don't. We don't have to
wait for Bruce to give a fifteen minute answers.

Speaker 4 (01:21:38):
Go ahead. I like how I like how you turned
my joke, my my, you know, joke such as it
was into a uh into a shot at Bruce. That's all.

Speaker 20 (01:21:48):
Well, I'm here, I'm here, Dale. Yes, I was noticing
on WWE dot com. I was looking at the roster
pages and evidently the tag team champions the Heart Dynasty
are just on the Raw brand, whereas they used to
have them listed as champions for both rowing.

Speaker 4 (01:22:07):
Ah. Yeah, that's a good observation.

Speaker 20 (01:22:10):
Yeah, my question. My first question is who do you
possibly think they could even move the smack Down to
beef up the show whenever they.

Speaker 2 (01:22:22):
Move to Sci.

Speaker 9 (01:22:22):
Fi jasbod do you think, Oh, there's several people. I
don't see Chris Jericho doing much right now. Obviously the
contract situation is an issue there. Edge is a guy
who I mean that they're using them in these multi
person matches and as you know, the Summer Slam seven
on seven. But it's not like either guy really has
a program right now. And I kind of wonder what

(01:22:42):
Jericho it might be by design if he really is
gonna leave, And with Edge, I kind of wonder if
it's by design, because they're thinking about just moving him
to SmackDown, So why get him in the middle of
this big program when you're gonna lose him to the
other brand anyway I've said Randy Orton, I think is
a possibility if they really want a face of that
brand and they feel like Mysterious gotta get Surgery one

(01:23:04):
of these days. Undertakers back, but he's not working the
full time schedule. So I think there's a number of
potential candidates out there. I think other than Sena and
gosh it, wait, is there anybody else that you would
consider untouchable for a move to smack down.

Speaker 4 (01:23:23):
Untouchable? Not Jericho could move, Vege could move. I mean no,
I mean everybody I'm thinking of has has already moved.
I mean, Seamus might be untouchable just because I still
think Vince looks at ra'z the A brand. And I
don't know that they want to. I don't know that
they want to lose the guy that they're the highest
on right now in terms of moving up the ranks.

(01:23:44):
But I wouldn't call Hi untouchable either, you know, I
just but he might be the only one that's even debatable.
I mean, yeah, I think Orton's a possibility if nothing else,
to get him away from Sena. But I think they
I think strategically, they look at Orton is going after
a different demo than Sina. You know, they think Sena
gets the younger male audience, the girls, and they want
you know, they they're thinking maybe Randy Orton can bring

(01:24:04):
in a little bit more of the stone cold you know,
the stone cold Steve Austin demographic that that that they've
they haven't lost him. I mean the average viewership abroad
still late thirties. You know, it's not like there's this
you know, just like there's this misperception that it's the
it's the year where every incumbent in politics. I have
to get my political reference in Jason with you, where

(01:24:26):
every every incumbent in politics is going to get ousted,
when in reality it's like about as lopsided in favor
of incumbents as ever. But the narrative keeps getting repeated.
I think the same thing, you know, the same thing's
going on here. But yeah, I don't see a lot
of I don't see a lot of people are untouchable.
I think you could really shuffle. I think you could
shuffle around the deck of just about anybody. But I

(01:24:46):
do think Vince McMahon wants to strengthen SmackDown so that
in the in the cable ratings race it looks like
he does have two strong brands. Where it was harder
to do the comparison with Smacked Down on My Network
or UPN or the CW it it wasn't really an
apples to apples comparison, and now it's closer to that.
So I think maybe some people who think SmackDown is

(01:25:08):
going to continue to be perceived treated as the B brand.
It might be a little surprised that at the type
of push that they do give it, especially now that
they're going to be on this under the same NBC
Universal family. There's going to be a lot more cross
promotion between the two brands now than when NBC Universals
Raw you know, was plugging SmackDown. They kind of had
to do it half heartedly because they weren't they were

(01:25:30):
promoting a show that wasn't under that the same programming umbrella.

Speaker 9 (01:25:34):
Let me sneak this into it. Take this for what
it's worth, but Miss is advertised for a SmackDown house
show after sometime in October. So I don't know if
there's anything to It might just be a one time thing,
or it could mean that he's heading over that way.
I hope not. I just there's something about Miz with
on live TV with a mic in his hand that
I still enjoy.

Speaker 4 (01:25:53):
I agree with that.

Speaker 20 (01:25:55):
Ian next, Well, my other question is that kind of
off the wall. I was wondering if there was any
what the deal was back in the day with the
Ultimate Warrior and his multiple colored title belts.

Speaker 4 (01:26:11):
I don't know that there's a lot to it. It
just I didn't like it because I like the idea
that there was one belt, you know, like there's one
Stanley cup. When he had you know, different snap on
belts or multiple different colored belts, it made it seem like,
you know, there was a prop department that just you know,
threw him in the xerox machine with a different colored
paper on it. I mean, I didn't like it, but
I think it was purely a move to make him

(01:26:32):
stand out a little bit more because obviously he was
really colorful with all the tassels and all the colorations.
I just, you know, it's like the spinning belt. It
was a chance to turn something that I think should
be treated somewhat sacred. I think it's a real strong asset,
and to try to turn it into a fashion statement. Jason,
do you remember there being anything more to that?

Speaker 9 (01:26:51):
No, not really. I mean, I guess, given his outspoken,
damn near hatred of homosexuals, maybe it was his way
of secret endorsing the rainbow colors. I don't know, there's
a joke in there somewhere that I'm swinging and missing
on all right, In anything.

Speaker 4 (01:27:06):
Else, No, that's it.

Speaker 20 (01:27:09):
Just lead me on, hope, have a good week.

Speaker 4 (01:27:11):
Sounds good. Thanks, love for Colin. All right, let's go
to call it number three Area CO two eight one.
Please stay your name and where you're from.

Speaker 19 (01:27:18):
Hello, guys, it's Jay out of Houston.

Speaker 14 (01:27:20):
Hey, yeah, okay, okay.

Speaker 19 (01:27:26):
Well you know that we have a Senior Citizens Club
with Jared Nash, Foley Dreamer, et cetera. And I think
these guys need to take a page out of the
Chris Jericho playbook, you know, put over the younger talent,
work with them. And my question is who.

Speaker 14 (01:27:43):
Would who would you all say as far as wrestlers,
would be Chris Jericho's two biggest supporters and it's too
biggest detractor. I've always been curiously like, and what do
the what do the younger guys think of Chris Jericho
as opposed.

Speaker 19 (01:27:57):
To the other main adventures?

Speaker 4 (01:28:00):
You want to start with that.

Speaker 9 (01:28:02):
I mean, I haven't heard any real knocks against Jericho
from people in the industry, at least in a long time.
I mean, I think they probably appreciate the fact that
he is willing to put them over. As far as
let me jump to what's your comment on TNA though,
who in TNA of these veterans, how many of them

(01:28:22):
are in a position where they mean enough that if
they did put over the younger talent, it would really
truly make the younger talent. I'm not saying it's it's
a bad idea to try, but I just don't feel
like those veteran names that are still hanging around there
are over enough that it matters. I'd almost in most
cases rather see them just go away.

Speaker 4 (01:28:44):
And also I agree with that first of all, on
the TNA side of things. And that's that's the trust
of my edit. My cover story editorial in this week's
Storts newsletter is is debunking Eric Bischoffs. You know, just
Swiss pull the Swiss. He's there's full of whole swisschiefs
argument that you know, well, since Batista undertaker Seawan Michaels

(01:29:04):
the Triple Ajor is so important at WWE, that justifies
us pushing our old guys. And so anyway, my whole
column is debunking that. This week, I'll say this about
Chris Jericho though I'm I'm a little suspicious. No, I
don't know suspicious a word, but it's it's creative framing
of what's going on. Jericho's getting jobbed out to a
certain degree. Clearly he's not in the top top main

(01:29:24):
event mix like to the degree that he was at
one point. There's there's been ongoing contract negotiations. There was
him with a with a game show that wasn't a
WWE project. WWE plays head games with people during contract
negotiations or when they do an outside project that they
don't benefit from, and all of a sudden, Jericho starts
doing jobs to younger guys. And then Jericho frames it as, Hey,

(01:29:46):
look at me, I'm putting over younger guys, and that's
the role that I'm in now. I I'm not sure
which came first to me. There's a little bit of possible.
There's a possibility here that Jericho's trying to save face
a little bit by patting himself on the back for
putting people over, to maskus frustration with his push being
reduced from maybe a top three player in that company
for the better part of two thousand and nine and

(01:30:08):
a little before and a little after that two thousand
and nine to now being you know, knocked down to
probably the twelve, you know, twelfth or thirteenth guy in
the roster, and and you know in those interviews too,
there's a lot of Jericho patting himself on, patting himself
on the back for a lot of things that I
think is a little bit of a side of of
of not quite being sure where where his future is
with WWE and trying to tout himself and market himself

(01:30:30):
a little bit through different means. So as far as
his reputational in the locker room goes, I can't I
can't point out two people who are as biggest boosters
and to who, uh who aren't I just I'm I'm
not sure on that answer specifically jennything else.

Speaker 19 (01:30:44):
Okay, yeah, yes, I actually totally agree with Toot about
the older guys, like totally means nothing. I wonder how
much Nash is getting paid because I was just staying
around all the microphone and brag about fifteen years ago
Darren the broac Obama could endorse him and he couldn't
fill up a classroom. Kurt Angle is an RVD and

(01:31:08):
Jeff Party are the older guys that can help make
some careers. But as you all know, you know, Angle
is jobbing out all the young guys great in execution,
but when everybody is tapping out for him and he's
forty years old, not exactly the best problem, and the
retirement stipulation done to death. I'll just give you all

(01:31:29):
think him from that storyline too before.

Speaker 4 (01:31:31):
I go, yeah, I don't. I am outspoken against having
a retirement match every week on TV. I mean, I
just it totally waters down the whole notion that a
wrestler the caliber of Kurd Angle's putting his career on
the line every week on TV. It sounds good on paper,
you know, you can imagine the presentation. Kurd Angle goes
to the book and says, hey, I want to put

(01:31:51):
my carena line every week on TV, and in his mind,
that's a ratings scatter. Every week Kurdan Angle's wrestling a
top ten contender, and every week if he loses his
Cruise of Sache. But what ends up happening is TNA
has one hundred and seventeen other things going on. Kurt
Angle's retirement stip isn't the new thing. It's something that's
been going on for a couple months or not excited
about it, and they just throw it out there. It
doesn't feel important, and it makes his whole career not

(01:32:14):
seem all that important because they're not really stressing it
very much. And I mean, I'm against the concept to
begin with. I think it's ridiculous to have every match
be I quit if I lose, because it gives away
the finish of every match. First of all, you know,
he's you know, you pretty much know he's not going
to lose, and it just repeats something that should be
done once every three years, not once a week for
twelve weeks.

Speaker 9 (01:32:34):
Jason, Yeah, I mean, I really can't even add anything
through that. It's just so cut and dry. Was one
of the worst booking decisions they've made lately. You know,
it wasn't not a complete money loss booking mistake, but
just makes for bad TV. It just spoiled what should
have been a pretty entertaining series of matches with Kurt

(01:32:55):
Angle by just giving away the finish. And I still say,
let's say the big payoff is that Angle loses in
the finals at Bound for Glory. Okay, well, no one
thinks he's going to lose, so no one ordered that
pay per view, so there you go. You know, it's
not like this is they're not getting people to tune
in because they believe that there's a chance Angle might lose,

(01:33:16):
and they're certainly not ordering pay per views because they
think it might be the last time they see Kurt
Angle wrestle.

Speaker 4 (01:33:22):
Yep, I totally agree.

Speaker 2 (01:33:31):
Are you a fan of AW looking to sit back,
relax and listen to some like minded podcasters who share
your passion?

Speaker 21 (01:33:38):
Do you want to be topped off the ledge after
a segment that has you wondering what the heck are
they thinking? Do you want to join a discussion on
what AW is doing right and what they could do
to improve?

Speaker 6 (01:33:48):
Then join me Joel and me Greg for the.

Speaker 21 (01:33:51):
All Elite Conversation Club every Friday on the PW torch
Live Cast. Fee search pw Torch in your podcast app
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Speaker 4 (01:34:18):
By the way, don't don't forget to join us in
the chatroom. If you're listening to our show live at
blog talk radio dot com slash Pro dash Wrestling dash Torch,
you can join the chatroom. We've got over fifty people
in there talking about what we're talking about, and some
other stuff too, something about Coslov and Undertakers, so we
haven't talked about that yet. So and Michelle McCool a

(01:34:38):
lot of conversation going on in there, so join them.
Quick plug time before we get back to the phone lines. Jason,
you and I both work with the same mobile app company,
and we both had our droid apps debut yesterday. I'll
give a quick plug for both of them because they're
both in the Android marketplace right now. You can do
a search for Wrestling and find the pw or Android

(01:35:00):
app and the Progressing dot Net Android apter, both free,
and I'm excited to be in the in the droids
the Android marketplace. Finally, we've been in the iTunes store
for almost two years and it's been great, and we
know we had a lot of people who I mentioned
it earlier are droid fans and have droid phones, and
it's a growing market. And so now you can get

(01:35:21):
all the updates from PW Torch and Jason obviously also
Progresting dot Net for free on your droid phone, so
be sure to check that out. And and if you
got an iPhone, I didn't know about it. We've got
free iPhone apps also, so be sure to check those out. Also,
if you're an MMA fan, the MMA Torch app is
also now available as of yesterday in the Android marketplace,

(01:35:46):
so download that for free. It's also a free iPhone apps.
You can search MMA Torch for that. And tonight is
the MMA Torch Live Cast. You can go to blog
talk radio dot com slash MMA Torch and get full
inform a on the UH on the time of the
ninety minutes Sho'll be in at eight o'clock tonight. The
special guest live will be Uriah Faber and he doesn't

(01:36:08):
do a ton of media interviews. Jamie Pennec hasim on
his UH MMA Torch Live cast for the second time,
and it'll be uh A good it's a it's a
good get and a good interview. So if you've got
if you've got interest in your I favor and MMA,
give him a or give that show a shot tonight.
If you can't listen to it live, you can also
subscribe in iTunes or listen to it on delay at

(01:36:28):
blog talk radio dot com slash MMA Torch Live Cast.
And uh, I was gonna say one other thing about that.
Oh yeah, and also they'll be ranting about Strikeforce and
also Bobby Lashley and his big loss, something that James
Caldwell talked about with Greg Parks yesterday on this PW
Torch Live cast. James Caldwell was in Houston as a
media member covering that event for the Torch, both PW

(01:36:50):
Torch and mm A Torch and an interesting, uh interesting
twist in Bobby Lashley's career. Jason, did you see that
fight live or did you just hear about it?

Speaker 9 (01:36:59):
No, was on vacation, so I just shorted about that.

Speaker 4 (01:37:01):
I thought, Yeah, pretty pretty big setback for Lashly. It
sounds like, you know, he's feeling a lot of pressure
at his age and you know, kind of trying to
learn the MMA, the MMA skill set a little bit
late in the game and not necessarily having the full
backing of the camp that he had been working with.
Some Nate Mark Court made some comments about him not,
you know, not really being as dedicated as they had hoped.

(01:37:23):
So definitely the stock on Bobby Lashley's MMA career has
dropped enough where it looks like there's a pretty darn
good chance of a Lashly Batista match. I mean this
last week, Lashley was saying, well, I don't want to
go into a Batista fight, you know five and oh
and waste my time when I'm moving towards the title shot.
And now it's kind of a position where to make
any kind of money, he needs to go into that,

(01:37:44):
into that Batista fight, and you know, he hopes win
so that he can, you know, basically get back into
the picture of somebody who's got an upside, but he
has a lot to prove.

Speaker 9 (01:37:52):
Now, is just the loser goes to TNA match It.

Speaker 4 (01:37:55):
Could be, well, I don't think Batista wants to. I
think Batista's well, depending on how I burned through money.
I think Patisa's pretty committed to either MMA or perhaps
going back to WWE, although he did not like WWE schedule.
I guess that's a good question. I mean, have you
heard anything that jasaid would make you think Batista would
actually go to TNA, especially given him complaining about the
WWW schedule.

Speaker 9 (01:38:16):
No, I haven't heard anything about him in TNA other
than you know, I mean, if they want to make
a ridiculous offer, people have said, yeah, I'd probably listen,
but you're not going to hit him to go to
some of the po dunk House show Towns is just
not in his makeup. And I really think right now
he is truly committed to this MMA thing, and he
knows the WWE's always there if he wants to go back,

(01:38:39):
and he annually complains about his dates and wants more money,
and he always signs a one year dealer at least
in the last several years he has. And I don't
think he's burned a bridge there. He went out the
right way, and people in WWE said, you know, he
has always had a good relationship with Vince and he'd
probably be welcome back with open arms.

Speaker 4 (01:38:56):
Although Batista is the right age for TNA, Yes, I mean,
he can fit right in.

Speaker 9 (01:39:03):
But doesn't. Yeah, the problem there is he really doesn't
have any history in w CW or e CW. So
would he talk about Yeah, I don't know what storyline
they could recreate with him. That's that's kind of skate
almost have to play like Lex Luger or Goldberg's rule.

Speaker 4 (01:39:16):
I was you took the words out of my mouth.
You're right, they literally would transpose them into something that
they're familiar with, because I mean, I don't think people
in TNA have any idea what he's done in his
career in WWE. You know, because the people running TNA,
they don't follow WW closely, you know, I don't. I
don't even know if they know he's a star.

Speaker 9 (01:39:32):
Well, Bishop probably hung out with him once or twice.

Speaker 4 (01:39:35):
Yeah, yeah, probably that's true. Although I don't think Bishop
actually watched Batista work. I don't think, But I bet,
I bet I would be. I'll put this way, I'll
be nice. I'd be surprised if anybody in a position
of power in TNA could tell you any kind of
detail about what Batista has done the last three four
years in WWE, Like say, what what are what are
a few examples of things that Batista did that you

(01:39:56):
thought were especially strong and fit his strengths, And what
are a couple of things that he did that you
think didn't didn't work well for him or exposed his weaknesses?
And I bet they couldn't give you an answer. But
people running a number two wrestling company should be so
well versed in their in their competitor that you know,
there shouldn't be hunting trips and trips to the bar
if you're serious about making money for Dixie Carter, who's
paying you? Well, you should be watching the other product

(01:40:17):
every single week, start to finish.

Speaker 9 (01:40:19):
Here's a question for you, like, and this is off topic,
but do you know what the hell Dixie Carter's big
surprise was? And what Jeff Jarrett's spotlight and island photos
and all these things he was teasing. But it's just
everyone kind of gave up and moved on. I think,
you know, I don't know if it was supposed to
be Hayman, if it was supposed.

Speaker 4 (01:40:39):
To be I think it was ev too. I mean,
I think Dixie, it's ev too. It's we're gonna bring
ECW back. I think she genuinely got snowed into believing
that there was a real large demand to see a
bunch of forty somethings come back out of shape and
hit each other with weapons and not sell them and
then hug afterwards. I mean, I think she bought into it.

(01:41:00):
I think, I mean, you know, we've been trying to
figure out Dixie Carter for years, and it took a
while for her to put herself out there as much
as she has lately. But I mean, I think we're
coming up with a conclusion that she's not real savvy
when it comes to to to wrestling. I just don't
think she's watched enough and studied enough. I mean when
I talk about how, you know, Eric Bischoff and Vince
Ruso and Jeff Cherr should be watching Ron SmackDown and

(01:41:21):
NXT every week, I mean they should that that five
hours should be part of their job, you know, and
and it's and it's crazy if they're not. I mean
it's it's it's a they're derelict in their duties. If
they're not. Dixie Carter should be reading every book on wrestling.
You know, this is her industry, this is her business.
I'd like to know what books has she read? You know,
what what books on wrestling? Did she read Bill Wats's

(01:41:43):
book and Terry Funk's book? And I mean has she
learned about the history of all the tricks that are
being played on her right now that she should know
better about. I don't know. I I mean, ultimately, I
think even though she denied that it was Paul Hayman,
you know quote Becoming Booker, I mean it was it.
The big surprise was EV two, and I think she
thought she could lure Paul Hayman in because she thought

(01:42:04):
he was as much of a mark and living in
the past as everybody she's surrounded with.

Speaker 9 (01:42:09):
Oh boy, I mean, okay, so if you actually believe that,
don't you go here's the big surprise I was talking
about instead of just letting it.

Speaker 4 (01:42:17):
Well, no, because I think I think what happened is
when people started thinking that was it. They I think
people went to her go this wasn't the surprise, was it?
And she probably just sheepishly went, uh no, no, of
course not. You know, I mean, I think she just was.
She got really excited at couldn't sleep all night after
talking to Tommy Dreamer, and Tommy Dreamer probably cried on
the phone, and she just thought, I'm gonna, I'm I'm

(01:42:37):
I'm gonna give this gift to wrestling fans that thin
sick man won't give them. And and you know, she
just thought ECW was as big in reality as Tommy
Dreamer makes it out to be and got excited and
tweeted and then ran with it.

Speaker 9 (01:42:49):
And I guess the rest is history.

Speaker 4 (01:42:51):
Yeah, well, yes, exactly. Well it's it's playing out, and
it's playing out as we speak. All right, Back to
the phone, lines. Let's go to area code eight sixty five.
You're you're on the life task. Please state your naming
where you're from.

Speaker 16 (01:43:06):
Hey, he's going off fellas of Stephen from Tennessee.

Speaker 4 (01:43:08):
Hey, Stephen, what's on your mind today?

Speaker 22 (01:43:11):
Uh?

Speaker 16 (01:43:11):
Nothing much, man, I just get a quick ring of
honor question to maybe one other one with ring of
honor artously that Tyler Black signing the we most likely
this will be his he'll lose the bell. I'll probably
be one of his last matches at the paper dude
coming up, but the station rockets strong. I just wondering,
maybe I heard it wrong, but is Ronnie going to
go to a tena in the future.

Speaker 4 (01:43:31):
He got a trial chasing, But I believe it or not?
They well, I couldn't they believe it or not. They
weren't overly impressed from what I heard.

Speaker 9 (01:43:38):
No, it's they felt like he was basically the same
wrestler that they had previously, and that they like his
ring work a lot. They just don't think that there's
much personality there, and there's been some talk of trying
to work around it. You know, I think he's another
guy that he's gotta be considered right now A candidate
for the RH title if he just decides to stay,

(01:43:58):
because they just don't have that many options. And I
don't know if that's something that would appeal to him
or not, but I haven't heard if they've made him
an official offer. I guess it wouldn't surprise me either way,
just because you know, I did hear different things from
people that some felt they could really find a way
to work around his Michael imitations, and others just kind
of felt like, you know, he doesn't have that much

(01:44:20):
to offer aside from what he can do in the ring,
and we've already got other guys who can deliver in
the ring but can't really talk. And I also heard
from people that hadn't seen him before that were really
you know, I'd seen him on TV, but had never
seen him in person, and we're really surprised at just
how small he was compared to what the mental image they.

Speaker 4 (01:44:39):
Had of him. Yeah. I mean, Roderk was somebody who
came on kind of kind of slowly in ROH where
there were some people after the promotion kind of got
stripped to the established names and there was thought, well,
this guy looks pretty good, you know, could this guy
actually be a centerpiece type of guy, and I think
RoHS to a degree by default, pushed him quite a bit,
and he has had some real good mone it's reshine,

(01:45:00):
but I don't know how much that translates into the
TNA formula right now. I think if t and A
had a very different formula and approached approach what they
do differently, I think we could be in a better
I think he'd be in a better position to be
taken advantage of. But as much as they pay lift
service and convince, and you know, all the people are
talking every Impact, all they're doing is talking to Dixie.
When you watch Impact, just realize everything you hear is

(01:45:22):
aimed at Dixie Carter, especially if it's stated by somebody
over thirty three years old. You know who's got reputation
for working people and playing people. Everything is playing Todi's Carter,
and so as much lift service as they play about oh,
this is a promotion for young guys, and it's opportunity
for Desmond Wolf and Jay Lethal and the Pope, it's not,

(01:45:43):
you know, and so I don't see where Strong is
a good fit for TNA at this point. I think
he'd be wasted. I think I mean, if he can
earn a good living, he should go for it if
that offer is there. But I don't think they know
how to utilize him. And I'm not even sure he's
a perfect fit for TNA, even if they change their
form a little bit. He's probably a better fit for
what Oroah does.

Speaker 9 (01:46:00):
He just strikes me as being a little too similar
into the show the role they have Douglas Williams playing
right now in the X division. Not that they're clones
by any means, but I just think Williams isn't a
great talker, but they've come up with the right gimmick
for him, and I mean he's kind of their Dean Malenko,
and I just have a feeling that's how they would

(01:46:21):
view Roderick Strong as well.

Speaker 4 (01:46:25):
Stephen, What's up? What else?

Speaker 6 (01:46:26):
Is?

Speaker 4 (01:46:26):
What's on your mind? Something like that?

Speaker 16 (01:46:28):
I ask to get a question that I've always kind
of wondered for a while. Way back in the night,
said the Stark when it was the big match between
singing Ogan, I know that the finished list seeling has
kind of boxes. Later on said that, you know, Brett
Hart said that the rest did.

Speaker 8 (01:46:44):
The fast count and they return of the match and.

Speaker 16 (01:46:46):
Everybody those kind of wonder was that was it ending
kind of box like someone messed up, or was that
just a very poor explanation of what they were trying.

Speaker 4 (01:46:54):
To don you remember that better than I do?

Speaker 9 (01:46:57):
You can you throw that one at me again? I
was just getting the wrong reading. I'm sorry.

Speaker 4 (01:47:03):
You want to know Finna can go ahead? See when
you can restate.

Speaker 16 (01:47:07):
Uh that's but it's simpler.

Speaker 6 (01:47:09):
Uh.

Speaker 16 (01:47:10):
Just the finish to the Stark ninety seven with the
Hogan staying match, they bren Hard apparently him, and he thought, uh,
now the referee who the referee was? It was Nickpatrick's
who claimed that Patrick did a fast count when Hogan
Cambridge staying, and Brett said like I'm no longer I
get screwed again or whatever it was. And then he
ended up because he's a referee for an earlier match,

(01:47:31):
he ended up starting the match and being ended up lating.
But you know that coping com planet wasn't a fast
counter bla blah blah blah, and so I was kind
of war with that finish, like boss or it is
kind of a piss poor explanation, my.

Speaker 9 (01:47:44):
Guess would be piss poor explanation, which is goes right
along with my piss poor memory.

Speaker 4 (01:47:50):
Yeah, I was while you were talking to trying to
look up the Torch from uh the Torch coverage of that,
because you can read if you're a VP member, just
go to the nineteen ninety seven back issue library and
you can read our coverage of it at the time.
I don't remember it being a big story, but it
wouldn't be. It wouldn't surprise me if it wasn't a
combination of both, given how huffscrew everything was in that

(01:48:12):
era of that was kind of the turning point for
things getting really screwy in that era for WCW. But
I can't give you a solid answer, but I can
I can research a little see if my memory gets jogged,
or look at the the chat room. Oh, here we go,
Bruce Mitchell. Here's what Bruce Mitchell says in the chat room.
There's an eighty percent chances he's being snarky and sarcastic.

(01:48:32):
Nick Patrick was put up to it by Hogan because
stink quote wasn't ready to carry the ball. Okay, Oh
that's finish.

Speaker 9 (01:48:37):
Yeah, now, okay, it was Nick the Yeah, I remember
there being a fast count with Nick Patrick and everyone
thought the Mighty Hulkster put him up to it, and
gosh did did he actually admit that in a radio interview.
Maybe somebody written in the chatroom can help me out
with that one.

Speaker 4 (01:48:53):
Well, we'll keep an eye on the story. Bruce says.
It was a real big story. So we're we're definitely
exposing our memories here, Stephen. Thanks for making us look bad.

Speaker 16 (01:49:04):
I'll just look at the back at him, my VIP
member myself, so I'll just look at the MAC and
I can read that RCO that first put up.

Speaker 4 (01:49:10):
All cool sounds good. Thanks a lot.

Speaker 1 (01:49:19):
You don't have to wait for the way Keller Prog
Wrestling post show to find out what I thought of
Monday Night Raw and SmackDown. Each week, you can check
out my reports that are updated live throughout Raw and
SmackDown at pw torch dot com. My written report will
tell you what's happening in detail in case you missed
the show, and it will also analyze key segments and
give my random thoughts quips on what I am watching

(01:49:41):
as it airs. So check it out every Monday night
and Tuesday night at pewtorch dot com. That also applies
to WWE pay perviews. I cover those live at pw
torch dot com with a detailed written report with star ratings,
and of course you can find other TV reports from
other contributors to pw torch such as nxt R, o H,
Impact Wrestling and more. Check it out pw torch dot

(01:50:02):
com your first stop for TV and pay per view
written reports.

Speaker 4 (01:50:15):
All right, let's go back to the phone lines. We
need some easy questions from the last ten years. Erico
two one five, Please stay your name and worry.

Speaker 6 (01:50:25):
This is Eric.

Speaker 4 (01:50:26):
Eric's what's on your mind today?

Speaker 3 (01:50:30):
Oh well, just have a quick question. What do you
think the purpose was of Zach Roderbrooking Day last night?

Speaker 9 (01:50:37):
Jathon, Well, you know, I just don't think they see
money in them.

Speaker 4 (01:50:41):
I do.

Speaker 9 (01:50:42):
I think it's a pretty modern character that he's playing.
I've said that before here on the show. I just
don't think they see more than WWE superstars leveled talent
there for whatever reason, and so they just you know,
that they needed somebody. I mean, there's not you don't
have a long list of NAI's around anymore. And I

(01:51:03):
mean I thought, as bad as Ryder looked last night,
I thought John Morrison and Ted DEBIOSSI looked just as
bad in their match with Randy Orton. They were just
there to make him look good and nothing else. Yeah.

Speaker 23 (01:51:15):
I don't understand why they're killing their new their their
young talent like that.

Speaker 4 (01:51:20):
I I don't. I honestly, I think they look at
Zach Ryder as a low, low card, gimmicky character and
the fact that he broke out a little bit and
fans look at him as something more than that, I
don't think WWE agreed with and I don't think they're
gonna go with it so anyway. Yeah, I think Zach
Ryder there's more money in him, but I think they

(01:51:42):
feel like they portrayed him as a joke for so
long that there's no way to portray him as anything
else other than that.

Speaker 9 (01:51:48):
See, all right, a.

Speaker 24 (01:51:49):
Little more question.

Speaker 23 (01:51:51):
I wanted to know what's your, uh, what was your
thoughts on the match last week with Jeff Hardy and
Rob Terry because I watched it again on a DV
are and like you can blatantly see Jeff Hart telling
him to do it again and he did that terrible
spinning kick that no big man over two thirty.

Speaker 4 (01:52:08):
Should be doing. Yeah, it was a really bad match.
I mean, there's there's so many reasons not to do
that match. Rob Terry can actually usually do a jump
spin wheel kick better than you think he should. Then
then it's like his other move, you know, besides the clothesline,
and so he keeps doing it because it's it's the
other move that I actually think he has pulled off

(01:52:30):
pretty well a lot of the time. But I think
Jeff Hardy is so and we have to kind of
understand Jeff Hardy's state of mind. He's a little flighty
who will put.

Speaker 16 (01:52:37):
It that way.

Speaker 4 (01:52:39):
I think Jeff probably, you know, probably just thought, well,
they'll edit this out. You know, this will just get edited.
It's so well having to do it again and someone
didn't catch it.

Speaker 9 (01:52:46):
And it's amazing of all the things they edit out
of that program, which we've talked about lately too, they
don't catch that, they leave that in, and god knows
what good material they actually cut out. I think they
finally have washed faith in Rob Terry. I don't you know,
he's been losing matches and now he's not even at
the Impact tapings this week. And granted that they are

(01:53:08):
having drug tests at the Impact tapings today, but as
far as I know, those are random style, so it's
not like he would, you know, necessarily be someone who's
tested anyway. So I just think that they finally have
realized this is a failed experiment, and not saying he
won't be back or anything like that, but I just

(01:53:30):
found it interesting that he's not there this week. He
Hernandez and some others aren't even at the tapings this week.

Speaker 4 (01:53:37):
Yeah, and have you been able to dig up anything
more on that well?

Speaker 9 (01:53:40):
With Hernandez, I don't think they've been exactly pleased with
him since his pay per view match with Morgan where
he failed to perform his border toss twice in the match.
And I know there are reports that Morgan was catching
the heat for it, but all TV signs pointed to
Hernandez being the guy getting the heat for it because
Morgan's getting somewhat of a push as part of this

(01:54:03):
Fortune group and Hernandez has just kind of been out
there and really hasn't been In fact, I don't even gosh,
when's the last time he's even appeared on television. I
don't think it's because of homicide leaving, because there was
talk of you not reuniting lax. But then I started
to hear buzz that, well, if they do put Hernandez

(01:54:23):
back in a tag team, he's got somebody else in mind,
and it's not even gonna be with homicide. So maybe
they'll actually do that somewhere down the road. But yeah,
those are two pretty big at least people within the
company that they perceived as their young stars that it
looks like they're kind of backing up on a little bit.

Speaker 4 (01:54:40):
I did just put up, by the way, regarding Stark
ninety seven in the Wade Keller zone of the vp
forum links to our coverage of that finish. It was
the Nick pat the oddity of Nick Patrick's accounts and
the way that was all followed up on is written
about actually a real long expanded cover story that I
just put a link up to in the Waye Teller
zones if you don't want to look the archives for

(01:55:00):
it and try to figure out what issue it's in.
I've got the cover story of the pay per View
report and our roundtable reviews of that show as a
thread in the way Keller zone in the VPP forum,
so you can check that out. And there was also
thought concerts as time because there were rumors of Hogan
going going back to WWE or back to WF at
that time, and so that was an interesting twist that
came out of that event too. And you can get

(01:55:22):
Bruce Mitchell's view in my view and and what else
was in the roundtable at that point hmmm.

Speaker 9 (01:55:29):
Or well, folks just keep watching Impact and I'm sure
they'll get to that finished.

Speaker 4 (01:55:32):
Event, absolutely absolutely. I'll uh, well, that's good.

Speaker 9 (01:55:38):
That's good.

Speaker 4 (01:55:38):
All right, Bruce Mitchell says, I told you, all right,
all right, up next, h Eric, do you have anything else?
I'm sorry, I want to make sure you got follow
if you had it.

Speaker 3 (01:55:51):
Oh no, that was it.

Speaker 23 (01:55:52):
I just it was amazing that they edited his pants
phoned the beginning in a fight scene and they didn't
edit that terrible kick.

Speaker 3 (01:55:59):
So I was just I wanted to know your thoughts.

Speaker 8 (01:56:00):
So that's pretty much it to me.

Speaker 4 (01:56:02):
Thank you great things. Are appreciate your sport and listening
to the show and calling in. Let's go back to
the full lines. Eric code seven eighty six. You're on
the show. Please state your name and where you're from.
Seven eighty six. All right, we'll move on. I've got
a lot of people on hold so we'll try to
check back with you seven eighty six in a moment. Well,
let's go to air code five or five things for holding.

(01:56:23):
Please state your name and where you're from. Hey, what's
up guys? This venue from New Mexico. Hey, Benny, good
dear for me again, what's up today?

Speaker 21 (01:56:31):
Hey?

Speaker 24 (01:56:31):
Hey, guys, doing just two things. One thing a little
a little word about the drug testing for the impacts
and you guys see first question, do you see maybe
this is a way to actually get rid of some
talent without saying, hey, you know, we got X y
Z coming in to rehul the company and then we're
gonna get rid of you that way, rather than you know,

(01:56:53):
and doing it this way. Do you think maybe this
is a way for them to cut.

Speaker 4 (01:56:57):
Some talent that's a rather cynical of bro. Do you
think they would do drug testing not to rid themselves
of talent that's on illegal drugs It could be bad
for their health, but instead because they're too cowardly to
fire people that they don't want around. No, I really
don't I think Yeah, Okay, Jason, I just don't.

Speaker 9 (01:57:14):
They've done drug testing in the past. It doesn't always
get reported. It's The problem is they really they say
they have a testing system in place, yet they don't
want to tell anyone what that system is, what the
punishments are, if they're suspensions, if there's terminations. I've yet
to hear of anyone not being used by TNA because

(01:57:35):
of a failed test or something like that. So I
mean that they're not a publicly traded company, they don't
have to, but it's kind of hard to take their
testing policy seriously when they don't even want to tell
you what it is.

Speaker 4 (01:57:47):
Yeah, there's no drug testing policy that's legit if it's
not transparent, you know. I mean, we don't know enough
about WWE's drug testing policy to consider it as legitimate
as I think it should be. In order to get
the type of praise that they think they're due, you know,
we need to know how many how many restles get tested.
They can erase the name, blackout the names, but let
us know how many restles get tested and when and

(01:58:07):
what the test results are. I mean, just be transparent
again and tell us where they are in the roster.
I want to know if the top third of the
roster gets tested as often as the bottom, and I
want to know if the operation of the roster has
more uh more prescription uh uh excuses or exceptions for
taking testosterum because at the bottom, I want to know
what that retio is so that we can all look

(01:58:29):
at it. All right, Dinny, we're getting feedback on your phone.
I'm gonna have to put you on hold because of that.
It was kind of loud, and we'll move on to
Erico nine one zero. Please state your name and where
you're from.

Speaker 12 (01:58:42):
Get it handibly.

Speaker 4 (01:58:42):
Yeah, I know, good, Hannibal, Great, hear from you. What's up?

Speaker 12 (01:58:47):
Okay, Yes, I'll say going back to you, I say
about you know, when when you know they hid the
title you know, involved before wrestle my yeah, four okay
was the originally plan for Hogan's the job of Brandy
Savage with you, you know, but he refused. But instead

(01:59:09):
of a little job, but he wanted him to just well, Dad,
it looked as a kind of being vacated for to
wrestle of four be a thing that might have happened.

Speaker 2 (01:59:19):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (01:59:22):
I don't know, Jason, I don't recall that being the case.
I mean, yeah, I'm trying to go back.

Speaker 9 (01:59:29):
Well, you know, it's just you know, it's a slow
time in wrestling, and we're getting all these questions about
WrestleMania four and and and past starcage and all this
stuff today.

Speaker 4 (01:59:37):
Yeah, Hannibal, you start, you stump me again. I'm gonna
have to go back and read. But I I don't
remember that. I don't remember that being what what Jason Well.

Speaker 9 (01:59:47):
I think he was responding to this question. Uncle Bruce
says no.

Speaker 4 (01:59:51):
Oh, okay, yeah, no, I don't. I don't think that.
I don't think the scenario brought up was the case.
I mean, I'm trying, I'm trying to think of that
ring of bell, and I just don't think so. I
don't think it's I don't think it's played out that way.
So I think that's why it's not ringing a bell.
Hand them on any other follow up from you.

Speaker 12 (02:00:06):
Okay, yes, you know, I don't know.

Speaker 6 (02:00:09):
I guess it's just killed me because the fact.

Speaker 12 (02:00:11):
That in the line you really just see the TV
titlely been defended seemed like just treated like the global
and religious title. To that, Chelsea, I.

Speaker 4 (02:00:19):
Agree with that. I think TNA has real issues with
how they portray their titles.

Speaker 9 (02:00:24):
I mean, I just but but come on, man, I mean,
they had to start their seventeenth tournament of the year
for the TNA title. So I mean you have to
have a j and that and he has to lose
non title matches to curd angle for no reason, and yeah,
it's it's a match.

Speaker 4 (02:00:38):
And we get We have a tournament with eight people,
which means there are you know, speaking of rest many
for which means there will be seven matches total. Seven matches.
That should be the total unless there's a double count
out or whatever it was at rest Many four where
somebody got to buy See now starting to come back
to me. But the problem, the problem is is they

(02:00:59):
had the They had four matches in one show the
first round. Now they've got three left, and it's gonna
take them seven weeks to get there. I mean, I
rand it about it last Friday, But it's the dumbest
thing in the world. Why do you go without a
champion for seven weeks? But if you're gonna have four
matches one week, you can have the semi finals this
week and the finals next week and then he got
a champion.

Speaker 9 (02:01:19):
Well, okay, you also got to remember that they're having
a pay per view on the Sunday of a Labor
Day weekend and they're expecting people to order this pay
per view to see semi final matches. Semi final matches.
Oh and you know, the wanna be four horsemen against
whoever they have left for me CW because apparently Sandman

(02:01:39):
won't be among those people either, and.

Speaker 4 (02:01:41):
Then no showing the TAY things and they're definitely coming
up short. Jerry Lynn with a back injury just incredible,
might get a callback.

Speaker 9 (02:01:48):
I mean PJ Yeah, PJ Palaco, the legendary PJ Pilaco, Yeah,
I guess he could. I mean, I don't know what
they're gonna do. They're they're running short ECW talent, and
you know, they there have been criticism in the locker
room that hey, some of these guys, not all of them,
but some of them are unreliable, and that they kind

(02:02:09):
of blew that off and decided to move forward with
this because they saw the ratings heading into Hardcore Justice,
and I've seen the ratings coming out of Hardcore Justice
and it's not pretty. I think sometimes nostalgia can be
fun for a little bit and then it's just time
to move on. And I don't think PNA sees it
that way, because I get the I get the idea
that it's going to continue at this this pay per

(02:02:30):
view and at Mound for Glory with EV two in fortune.

Speaker 4 (02:02:33):
I think one thing that we need to do is
make a suggestion to PJ on his new wrestl name,
because PJ Pilaco it can work. But this is a
nostalgia show. You got to have an old you gotta
have a name, So I think go with the same thing,
but he should change his name to Quentin Okay works
the same way, Quentin Credible.

Speaker 9 (02:02:51):
Quin Incredible. That works for me. Or he could just
file the protest paper since he has prior usage just incredible.
And I don't know why neither him nor TNA did
that leading into the pay per view, because it's not
WWE that owns the trademark, it's some indie promoter that's
mad at him because he no showed a free show.
In other words, he wasn't even supposed to be paid
for the show he no showed it, which is wrong.

(02:03:13):
But the guy decided to have his girlfriend buy the
rights to his name and is now trying to hold
him up for like two hundred and fifty dollars to
buy the rights to his name back what only has
to do is file a protest and the name is
revert to him.

Speaker 4 (02:03:26):
Or he can or Jason. Sorry to drag this out,
but he could just change his name to justin a mazing.
That'll work too, Yeah, No, that doesn't work. Not really.

Speaker 9 (02:03:35):
I'm just trying to humor you.

Speaker 4 (02:03:37):
Yeah, just amazing, just amazing. All right, Oh, this show's
going downhill. Let's go next collar before we really bring
it up. Eric Coke five seven three, please stay to

Speaker 9 (02:03:48):
Sabus five seven three. Hi, This is Hi.

Speaker 8 (02:03:51):
This is Chris from Rock Island, Illinois. How are you
guys doing good?

Speaker 4 (02:03:55):
You sounded unsure of where you're from for a second. There,
you know.

Speaker 8 (02:04:00):
I've been sitting here on hold and try to get
through this show. I've been a VIP number for quite
some time and this is the first time I've gotten true,
so I'm excited.

Speaker 4 (02:04:07):
Excellent, We'll go here for me, Chris.

Speaker 8 (02:04:11):
My question is I was watching Raw last night, and
being a taped show, they brought up Tiger Wood's divorce,
which was not a story a week ago, so it
kind of pointed out how post produced the Raw commentary is.
And then I started watching Michael Cole and Jerry Lawler,

(02:04:31):
and seeing that, do they do any live commentary or
is it all post produced?

Speaker 4 (02:04:37):
They usually do live commentary. I am trying to think of.
I mean, this pattern has changed over the years. They
used to just do a few matches live so that
they could show them calling the matches live, and then
they would just sit there on their hands in between
and do a lot of post production. They moved away
from that in recent years where most of their commentary,
even on pre tape shows, is done live at ringside.

(02:05:01):
But they wanted to. I think what they wanted to
do is probably made the reference to the divorce to
make it seem like the show was a lot to
make it seem more current, and they probably inserted that.
But I think the majority of the commentary when they
pre tape shows, the majority of it is done live
in the building. Jason, do you have anything the end
of that.

Speaker 9 (02:05:19):
Yeah, it's become pretty It's become pretty simple for them
to do over dubs now with modern technology, it's not
like they need those guys to come into the building
even in Stamford like they used to. They can do it.

Speaker 4 (02:05:32):
From their homes.

Speaker 9 (02:05:33):
So I don't know how much of last night's show
was you know, I'm sure they call it all live
there and then they'll go back and insert a few
over dubs. And I think the other one that jumped
out was the footage from China that they had from
over the weekend too, So yeah, I think it was
just a case of them wanting to freshen up the
show and I know, SmackDown it. I mean there were

(02:05:55):
times if Vince was just appalled by the commentating or something,
he would call all the announcers.

Speaker 3 (02:06:00):
In ninety seconds or have.

Speaker 9 (02:06:03):
Them just do you know a lot of overdubs and
things like that. But the goal generally is to get
as much as they can live to tape and so
they don't have to go back and do all those overdubs.

Speaker 4 (02:06:14):
Chris, any quick closing comment from you as we wrap
up get close to the end of the show here.

Speaker 8 (02:06:18):
I just brought it up. I don't know if you
guys still have that on your DVR or not, but
I started paying attention to them from ringside from there out,
and their their mouths, their actions didn't pay didn't match
what they were saying or the action going on in
the ring. They were just talking to each other and
weren't calling the match at all, So I just thought
it was kind of interesting.

Speaker 4 (02:06:38):
Yeah, they must have wanted to redoce some stuff because
normally they do. They do most of their commentary live
at ringside, even if the show air is un delay.
Let's try to squeeze in one more call here, real
quick Erico eight five to six. Please state your name
and where you're from.

Speaker 25 (02:06:50):
Chri's Chris from upstate New York.

Speaker 4 (02:06:52):
Hey, Chris, real quick? What's up today?

Speaker 9 (02:06:55):
Yeah?

Speaker 25 (02:06:56):
Okay, just to follow up with earlier in the show,
I just want to point out with Jericho that you know,
wrestling fans have, you know, short memories that are pretty sickle,
and I think that it's getting to the point now
where he's been jobs so many times that he's really
not putting over anybody. All he does is lose and
and then and it's lost. It's it's luster, I guess.

(02:07:16):
And the second thing, Real Quick is Ed.

Speaker 3 (02:07:18):
Should absolutely be moved to SmackDown. He's a great deal.
Second and frankly, he's just he's uninspiring right now.

Speaker 4 (02:07:25):
Thanks christ Rodondo all of time. Thanks every I'll be
if p you member stay tuned for the VP after show.
And join me and Pat tomorrow for another live cast.
Thanks Jason, and thanks to all the callers.

Speaker 5 (02:07:39):
Longing for some nostalgia or maybe you want to learn
some wrestling history, don't miss the nineties Pass cast Every
Friday on the PW Torch Daly Cast feed. Alex and
Patrick will transport you thirty years into the past by
taking you through the Torch issue from that very weak
follow news from the WWF and WCW, and all the

(02:08:00):
happenings from across the wrestling industry in real time as
the Torch reported it thirty years ago. That's the nineties
Pass cast every Friday for the PW Torch Daily Cast feed.

Speaker 4 (02:08:29):
Man that I'll weur flew by Jason, Yes you did.
We have some other suggestions here in the chat room.
One is uh justin delible, justin oh wait here it
keeps refreshing, just in time.

Speaker 9 (02:08:43):
Th h y m e.

Speaker 4 (02:08:45):
Justin furior. I doubt he would go with that one.
I had another suggestion to my mind was wandering here,
uh just amazing, oh God, because you know terror rized.
Oh no, just a rising, just the rising, just because
you know Terry Taylor's there and he like he came
up with a terrorizing name for Triple Ah.

Speaker 9 (02:09:06):
Here's some useless information I can say, because I don't
know when else I'd actually be able to use this, Okay,
that name, and maybe it's been out there before. The
just Incredible name actually was a rib because Paul Haman
hated when announcers would use the word incredible describe wrestling
as one of his pet peeves, because he felt like

(02:09:27):
it the word actually means something is not credible, and
so he would instruct Joey Styles to never use that word.
And I don't know if it was Haymon ribbing himself
or if somebody else came up with it, but that
was actually the story behind the just Incredible name.

Speaker 4 (02:09:41):
Oh gosh, that's funny. So there you go. All right,
Well we'll use that as our launchpad to not talk
about p J. Walker's name and just Incredible anymore. But
thanks to everybody in the chat room man, that show
just flew by. Ratings are in for any the show.
They did a three point two, a little below last

(02:10:03):
week's rating. Pre taped show kind of the in between
the nine hundredth episode and Summerslamm doldrums a little bit.
What did you think of the format of last night's
show with Seamus on the throne, you know, watching his
contenders and getting to pick at opponents, especially with a
mister GM still kind of playing some head games here
and keeping us on our toes as far as which
side he or she is on.

Speaker 9 (02:10:23):
Yeah, it wasn't a bad show. It was one of
those nights where I felt like, for me personally, knowing
what the spoilers were took away from it. I think
I would have been a little more intrigued by Great
Colley and Chris Jericho than I was, because that's that's
a match where can easily see Jericho losing instead of
actually going over because they like to protect their giants,
and so that finish probably would have surprised me a
little bit more. But Seamus sitting on the throne all night,

(02:10:48):
I liked it for him because he really has good
range and he's able to just show a variety of
emotions when he gets enough time out there, and last
night was no exception, because you know, at one point
he's he's arrogant is all get out, and then later
in the show he's intimidated by Nexus, then he's almost
disgusted by Randy Yorgan the guy had for a wrestler.

(02:11:11):
The guy has really nice range. And the problem I
had with the concept though, was it was basically, Okay,
we're gonna announce at the top of the show that
he's just gonna sit around and watch a bunch of
random matches and then make his announcement at the very
end of the show. So if you want to go
watch the football game and just check back in the
last fifteen minutes, you're good.

Speaker 4 (02:11:31):
Yeah, it's to me the last couple of weeks of Raw,
where let's come up with an idea that'll fill a
bunch of time, you know, that'll that'll get us through
two shows because we're kind of beating we're kind of
looking forward to a vacation.

Speaker 9 (02:11:45):
Yeah, yeah, that's Last week was just last week was
the one where they did all the nexus attempt to
put the heat back on him that failed miserably. I
enjoyed this show more than last week. It didn't have
me wanting to pull imaginary hair out of my head
or anything like that, but it really yeah, I mean
it just it does feel like they're kind of going

(02:12:07):
through the motions right now, and we've got one match
for Knight of champions, and I you know, I know
there's a little bit of a net uproar that Miss
isn't part of that match. Miss is the United States
Champion and it's all titles on the line at night,
a champion, so he's not his title.

Speaker 4 (02:12:23):
Good point, very good point. Yes, yeah. So uh but
mister gim where do you do you think people are
still intrigued by this or is it just kind of
part of the show now and the idea that I mean,
I think there's a lots of faith that they even
know where they're going with it.

Speaker 9 (02:12:41):
I think it's it's gotten to the point now where
people don't see light at the end of the tunnel
and they're not really going to be engaged fully until
WWE starts teasing that they have an endgame and you know,
it's it's people aren't buzzing about it like they were
even a month after it started. It really just kind
of see like it's an accepted part of the show.

(02:13:01):
I don't think people are completely turned off by it either,
but there's not that they're not doing a good job
of really keeping people guessing and the little the swerves
they've kind of put out there about you know with
one week using Steve Austin's catchphrase, I don't think anyone
buys into it. Almost just like, oh, we can cross
his name off the list of potential candidates. So they
stopped that. So yeah, I don't it's okay what they've done.

(02:13:26):
I do like that, Like last night it looks like
he's going to side with Seamus and then he kind
of turns against him at the end. Little stuff like
that is fun. But yeah, I'm with you. I don't
know that they know who is going to be at
I mean, my top two candidates remain Michael Collin, Triple H.

Speaker 4 (02:13:46):
I same here, yeah, and maybe Stephanie McMahon.

Speaker 9 (02:13:50):
Oh, oh, I know. I don't want to have no McMahon's. None.
I just okay, Linda would be a shocker just because
of the election, but other than that, he's no McMahon's.
If Vince comes back in this role and they try
to work, oh man, what a disaster that would be.
I can just hear the sound of millions of remote
controls turning off at the same time. If they actually

(02:14:11):
go that route.

Speaker 4 (02:14:12):
Oh, I know, and it doesn't it what makes I mean,
you would have to have Vince talking faking a conversation
to himself on the phone. So then what we have
a multi personality gimmick that Vince is doing at that point,
is that what we're supposed to believe that you know,
he's actually talking to it. He can do the Rick
Steiner gimmick. He's tucking to his hand.

Speaker 9 (02:14:29):
I don't know, even Shane, even though he hasn't been
on TV and so long, it would just be like,
oh great, another big storyline payoff with a McMahon family member.
It's just, you know, enough's enough. What I do like
what Michael Cole has been doing, though. I like the
annoying introduction he does every time, like you know, we
don't know the email chime means it's anonymous general manager.

(02:14:53):
He gets his glasses, he says, excuse me, you know,
the same thing each and every time. And I think
it's by design, and I think it's great. And someone
who just zones out those announcers more often than not,
not intentionally, but just because they really don't add anything
to the show. But now you have Michael Cole doing
that routine, you have them just openly rooting for the

(02:15:13):
mizz and cheering against Daniel Bryan it really makes for
fun TV.

Speaker 4 (02:15:18):
Mm hmm. Well, let's shift gears dramatically and talk about
Randy Savage in the Hall of Fame. You had a
story up at Pro Wrestling dot Net with an interview
with Right after Wrestling where his brother Lanny Poffo said
that without a doubt, Randy would accept an invite to
the Hall of Fame, but I think he would do
something else. He would barter to get my father Angelo
Pomfa in there. That would be a classy thing to

(02:15:38):
do with the WWE. Ask my brother, absolutely think he
would say, yes, he's in a different place now that
he has married Lynn. Randy Savage in the Hall of Fame.
I mean, we get asked this all the time. You know,
the grudge that Vince took Manhattan against Randy Savage. It's
a grudge that people don't speak about in specifics. I
don't even know if people know the specifics. But Randy
Savage obviously deserves to be in the Hall of Fame

(02:16:00):
on the criteria that WWE has used for any but
for their Hall of Fame in the past.

Speaker 9 (02:16:05):
Oh yeah, yeah, And I think there has to have
been a little bit of progress made if they actually
did the DVD set on him. They're doing something with
you know, Savage and mckel that one. You know, it
could be another sign, but I that could just as
well be mckel decided to do it. And WW is like, yeah,

(02:16:26):
what the hell. But the fact that they actually made
the DVD taels me the ice has been broken a
little bit. I don't know if it'll be this year.
I don't know if they're gonna keep this going, but yeah,
absolutely the guy belongs in the Hall of Fame.

Speaker 4 (02:16:40):
Eric Bischoff made his case in a blah I want
to talk abou a couple bucks there, made his case
last week for the over forty year old crowd. And
I love the logic. You know, it's like numbers or figures.
Lie and Liar's figure is the old saying. And Eric
Bischoff has pulled a few figures out, you know, Oh,
ros demographic among males eighteen to thirty four and eighteen
to forty nine for the lowest in seven weeks. And

(02:17:00):
that's when, in his mind, they started this push of
the young talent, not really realizing the push of the
young talent began a year and a half ago. And
then he cites Vince McMahon saying that the drop in
business in quarter number two of twenty ten, or quarter
three of guests quarter two had to do with a
lot of these big names not being part of the show.

(02:17:22):
I didn't even get I didn't even point this out
on my editorial in this week's newswatter, but I should have.
It's jumping out at me. Now. I was gonna go
a different direction with his question, but I love Eric Bischoff.
He says here that Vince McMahon even pointed to the
fact that Triple H Undertaker, Sean Michaels and Batista not
being in the mix has led to business being down. Okay,
but that was for April, May and June, because that's

(02:17:44):
the second quarter. That's what Vince was referring to. An April,
May and June our talent. We lost these four big names.
Then Eric Bischoff refers to how ratings were down compared
to the past seven weeks at the end here in
mid August, Well, the past seven weeks would incorporate all
of June and I'm sorry, all of July in part
of August. When he thinks it was the beginning of

(02:18:06):
the youth movement, now stick with me here. If their
business was down in April, May and June because the
big names were gone, but the demographics went down in
July compared to where they were beforehand, those two examples
wipe each other out. Am I explaining this well?

Speaker 9 (02:18:28):
Or no, No, I definitely get where you're coming from. Okay,
you know, I don't think it's I really believe what
Bischoff was responding to more than anything was Paul Haman
saying in that interview with AOL that if he got
the book, or if he got control of TNA, he
would chop the heads off of everyone over forty years old.

(02:18:49):
And I just think that Bischoff was maybe being pc
or too cowardly because he might actually have to work
with Paul Hayman at some point to just come right
out and respond to Paul Hayman directly, and instead he
took this route, and I don't think he did a
very good job with it at all. I think that
and the argument that got me more than anything was

(02:19:12):
him claiming that TNA has done this great job of
using the over forty talent to elevate the young talent
who has benefited from this. In his mind, I'm sure
as well. AJ Styles has come out of his shell
since we put him with Rick Flair. AJ Styles doesn't
mean anymore today than he did before the oregan. A
Bischoff got there at all. Jay Lethal barely means more,

(02:19:33):
and that's only because he was playing Randy Savage before
they got there. It's not over anytime they start to
give these young guys a push, like we saw with Lethal,
he beats Flair on pay per view, he comes back
the next night and loses. They just for here. I
was stunned that he actually tried to submit that claim.

(02:19:55):
Good luck finding somebody you know that they've really made
since they got there, you know, Thanks, John Cena. Abyss
is a turnoff. I'm convinced of people terans on and
it's just they've failed. And for him to pat him
sell Dixie Carter and Vince Russo on the back for that, Wow,
that just tells me either Eric Bischoff is really in

(02:20:15):
kiss as mode or he's absolutely clueless, and either one
scares the hell onto me.

Speaker 1 (02:20:22):
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Speaker 4 (02:21:01):
And if you look at their over forty wrestlers, I
mean he's talking about Batista, Sean Michael's Undertaker, and Triple H.
The over forty crew that TNA is giving TV time
too is Kurt Angle Sting, Jeff Jarrett, Mick Foley and Kevinash.
Those are the kind of the five over four years.
If you don't call Bischoff, and even if you STIP,
even if you give them RVD and Tommy Dreamer because

(02:21:21):
they turned forty later this year, they're both thirty nine
push and forty, you can even include them I would
take Batista Michael's undertaker and Triple H over any of them,
with the possible exceptions of Kurt Angle and RVD of course,
because RBD can still go and I mean there's something there,
but he's not over forty. So that's the technicality that
I'm giving Bishoff if I'm being generous in this, in

(02:21:44):
this little debate that I'm having with him, even though
he's not here. And Kurt Angle, you know, he's got
I mean, he's got so much mileage on that neck
and there's so many you know, issues with him. I
still I mean, it would be tempting to take any
of the others over over Kurt Angle for that reason too.
But if if you thinks Sting and Jarrett and Fully
and Nash are in the same category of Batista Michaels

(02:22:04):
undertaker Triple Ah, I mean, he really has lots of
touch with the skill level and the ability to actually
work a full fledged, full time program in the ring
with those guys.

Speaker 9 (02:22:16):
I just love to see him follow up on that
and explain who he thinks his benefited from this. I
just don't see anyone. And if he tries to claim
the MotorCity machine Guns well, they weren't elevated because of
veteran talent. They were elevated because they were putting a
program with beer money. And I'm still not convinced TNA
is going to see it through to the point where
they're going to mean more a year from now than

(02:22:38):
they do right now, because they'll start pointing to the
usual limitations that those guys have, which it's certainly true
they can't sell, but sometimes you got to work around
those things. But in TNA, it's just becomes something that
those guys will point toward as an excuse to not
do more with young talent. I remember it may have

(02:23:02):
even been Bishoff himself. Somebody was telling me one time
that it's tough in TNA when you have so many
people in creative to really get it. Let's say you've
got to if you're a member of the creative team
and you've got somebody who really feel strongly about when
you've got so many other people in there in power
positions that have their idea of who they want to

(02:23:25):
who they want to push. And I think it works
the same way too. It works just the other way
where it's easy for let's say Bishop is a big
fan in the machine guns, while who's to say Vince
Russo can't come up with that excuse to cut the
legs out from under him. It's just there's two. It's
so crowded. Everyone has their favorites. They don't necessarily gel
and I just think that they're just spinning their wheels

(02:23:48):
as a result of this, where if they had one vision,
I think they just be so much better off.

Speaker 4 (02:23:55):
Yeah, and I mean there's bad visions that will fail,
but I'd rather watch a bad vision fail than all
a lot of good visions get half assed treatment and
be poorly executed and we learn nothing from it. You know,
if if you've got seventeen different ideas or even three
or four different concepts, all competing for TV time and
the tone and the vibe that the show gives off,
none of them are going to catch on, and you're

(02:24:15):
not gonna know what is working and what isn't you know.
I mean, that's why I just say, you know, you know,
you can do any number of approaches to try to
test things out, but what t Anda should be is
constantly experimenting to figure out what works, not putting everything
that they think might work on a show that ends
up cluttered and failing, and you've learned nothing isolate a
few concepts, isolate some talent. If you're gonna put Nash

(02:24:36):
and Sting and Fully and Dreamer on TV, then do it.
But quit claiming you're pushing young guys and let the
ratings tell the story. And if the ratings go down
when you push the old guys for six straight weeks,
then try pushing the young guys for eight straight weeks
and really do it, and have the old guys clearly
in supporting roles are off the show, very limited and

(02:24:57):
see what happens. At least it's not a long enough
time to get a solid answer, and there's still so
many variables. Are they doing a good job pushing the
young guys that they do a poor job? Does it
really say young guys shouldn't be pushed? There's a lot
of quote, but at least you'd have a chance to
learn something. But this fake youth movement in TNA with
a bunch of old guys, you know, arguing with each
other about things and punch bowls and things that happened

(02:25:19):
in the nineties, it's just it's just a mess. And
then at the same time, You've got this classic series
with the machine guns and beer money that just gets
lost in the crowd, and then you got Kurt Angle
putting his career on the line every week, and it's
barely on the map of anybody, when that should be
what the show is entirely built around. It's so maddening
and it's so sad that that nobody in control in
TNA seems to see it for what it is. Jason,

(02:25:40):
do you think there are people in TNA in management
who truly believe they're getting that we're overly critical and
that we're biased, and that's the product isn't as bad
as we say, and they're just blind to it, that
they genuinely think they're putting out a decent product and
they pick out their isolated moments to justify it. Or
do you think everybody kind of knows if not, we're

(02:26:00):
all here just to try to milk Dixie and the
family out of the money.

Speaker 21 (02:26:03):
No.

Speaker 9 (02:26:04):
I think they believe it. I really think they feel
like they're on the right path and we are overly critical,
and you know, it's the net fans, and it's that
they don't represent the casual fans and all the usual
venom that they spew. I just don't think. I don't
think they have a clue. It's frightening if they want
to pack them. If they take the other approach, and

(02:26:25):
I'm wrong on the machine guns, and they try to
cout that as a success that they've done, well, you
know what, these Net fans you hate so much have
been clamoring for that match for what at least three
years and you finally got around to it. Now, way
to go. I mean it's they just try to dismiss
everything that's on the net unless it's pro T and

(02:26:47):
A and then it's a different story. And I've heard
this from so many people in that company that yeah,
they pay attention to just about everything you guys, right,
And the difference is if it's something that they like,
well then it means something. And if it's something that
they I don't like, well, oh that is just you know,
those guys don't know what they're talking about. They're just
stupid Net people. And I mean, I don't expect him

(02:27:07):
to build their company around everything we write, but at
some point you have to look at your ratings and
realize what you're doing isn't working. And more importantly, this
is good. It kind of goes against what I just said,
but stop overanalyzing your damn ratings. If you're trying to
truly build young talent, you can't just go, well, look,

(02:27:27):
this guy didn't get it. We just started pushing this
guy and he's not catching on. His rating this week
is one of the lowest done the shows, So we
need to abandon ship on that. No, do tell your story,
keep building this guy up, and hope that long term
it leads to a better rating. Quit worrying about next
week's rating.

Speaker 2 (02:27:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (02:27:45):
Imagine if an author writing a book submitted the every
five pages to some focus group or some message board
of people who are passionate about books and go, what
do you think of what I'm doing with this character?
What do you think about this introduction? What do you
think of that dialogue? You would completely drive the creative
process nuts. You would have so many people suggesting, oh,
you should have her dye your hair red, and then

(02:28:08):
her twin sister shows up and then they can fight,
and then this guy should be in a car accident
and lose a leg because it's like, it's just ridiculous.
You've got to pick a direction, have a plan, and
I just think, you know, one approach as many approaches
of work, but one approach woul work for TENA is
just do what a thirteen week storyline arc, you know,
pick a court every quarter, do something where you really

(02:28:29):
get behind somebody. It's like I said about the RVD
thing to you before, when you're kind of speculating what
should they do with RVD early in the year, and
I was like, don't. My whole thing was don't do
what they've done with him. That's what that was the
worst fear was do what they've done with him, which
is every third show, make it have Hogan pay lip
service that he's the centerpiece of the company and everything's
about him and he's a great leader and all this
lip service, and then for two weeks botch him and

(02:28:52):
just treat him as another cog in the mix and
not really build around him. I mean, my thing is,
if you want to see if for our VANDAM draws,
he is the whole. He is eighty five percent of
the reason that you would advertise and tout and make
anybody tune into your show. It's about Rob and dam
and his title and go with it and see if
you can get some money out of him, but the

(02:29:13):
way they pushed him, it's been so muddy and inconsistent,
and it's one of the better pushes this year they've
done for anybody, but it's still muddy and inconsistent, and
they haven't learned is he really a draw? Because the
show's not enough about him. You can make the same
argument about take Teim Wrestling, about the X Division, about
the women's division, about certain young talent, about Desmond Wolf.
Get behind two or three concepts for thirteen weeks and

(02:29:36):
don't clutter it, and don't let other people's ideas say, oh,
but I want this guy like you're saying, you know,
I want this guy push and I think this guy's
a chance. Your answer to anybody with that is talk
to me at the end of October, because that's when
that's when this season or this chapter ends, and then
we're going to consider who to push for the next
thirteen weeks. But until then, it's off the table.

Speaker 9 (02:29:54):
Yeah, And that's one of the reasons that I really
do endorse the idea of Hayman going there for the
right thing. I'm not saying just.

Speaker 4 (02:30:01):
Here's the keys to the commy.

Speaker 9 (02:30:03):
Yeah, but he's not thinking about even October. He's thinking
about sixteen and thirty two months down the road. And
I just haven't heard anyone in TNA come up with
a vision like that. And it's not like he's going
to lay out the booking that long. It's just he
knows that this is a long term problem. This is
something it's not something you can turn around overnight. And

(02:30:24):
even if you get the quick vix ratings boost, it
doesn't mean you're on the right track. Another thing way
that stands out to me. We don't agree with the
people that in many cases that the young guys they've
chosen to push, Rob Terry being one of them. There's
an example, But I would be much more encouraged if
it was just a case of man the booking. I

(02:30:46):
don't agree with who the who they chose to push
in Rob Terry, but I'll be damned if they didn't
do a really good job of it. And granted it
could have been better had they went with this guy,
there's never that that never comes up. Even with the
guys they select, the Eric Young's, the Rob terror and
the ham or the Hernandez, none of those guys are
in better positions than they were now they're all just

(02:31:07):
kind of stuck in that same limbo. And that's what
it just baffles me about TNA booking is they really
don't make any progress yet. There's Bishoff patting himself and
Dixie Carter and Vince Russo on the back for a
job well done.

Speaker 4 (02:31:22):
I know, I mean it. Do you think there's any viability?
I mean maybe this's a load of question that I
know the answer, any viability to splitting off EV two
into something else, into another show, you know where it's
kind of what the idea, what's to do with the
nw al back in the day.

Speaker 9 (02:31:38):
No, No, there's if I mean, TNA has a lot
of talent under contract, and if they wanted to separate
and start another show similar to Raw and smack Down.
I don't think it's the right move to make. But
I definitely don't think basing it around EV two is
the way to go. I mean, there's just not that

(02:32:00):
many guys there you can count on long term. Dreamer
has been very reliable, but he's also getting older. He's
also got a bat MCL he's working on that. He
probably should have surgery on you. Rob van Dam is
their champion, but they've already burned through his dates, and
you know, Frankly that you know they can probably I
think they've got him back for another year anyway. But
I just don't really see legs in this EB two thing.

(02:32:24):
According to people who were at the taping last night,
the Fortune group got a better reaction than EV two did.
I think this is going to blow up in their
face where people, because basically what you're seeing is Fortune
is the one being extreme. They're the ones that are
beating the hell out of these EB two guys.

Speaker 4 (02:32:43):
Yep.

Speaker 9 (02:32:44):
And that's what I think anyone who is still into
the ECW thing wants to see from the ECW guys,
and I'm sure they'll get their revenge at pay per
viewer or whatever. I also, I'm one area where I
have to defend Bischoff. Is you know, I hear people
say it's you know, Eric Bischanoff is trying to cut
the legs out from under these ECW guys because Tommy

(02:33:07):
Dreamer and others are a threat to his power. Eric
Bischoff is the one who came up with the EB
two idea. That was his baby that he pitched to
Paul Hayman months and months ago. Now, maybe the dynamic
has changed a little bit, but I don't think you
can leave that out.

Speaker 22 (02:33:26):
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Speaker 26 (02:33:34):
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Speaker 4 (02:34:01):
How can I like?

Speaker 22 (02:34:02):
The name says we cover the hottest independent promotions from
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Speaker 26 (02:34:10):
Actually, Chris, I think we stick pretty much to wrestling.

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No, I mean beyond wrestling out of Worcester, Oh right.
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Speaker 4 (02:34:39):
I agree. I think sometimes people look at incompetence within
TNA or or maybe just a better way, but is
the persistent politicking that is being played in the different
factions and the lack of leadership, and they look for
conspiracy theories where they don't exist. That doesn't mean they're
on conspiracy theories that do exist just because there's one
that doesn't. It's like the whole Christ and Winskey WWE thing. Okay,

(02:35:00):
you know your talent you works in two thousand and nine,
your average number of dates worked was one hundred and
thirty nine for talent. That doesn't mean the top guys
weren't working close to two hundred dates. But WWE can
use that to debunk anything no Winsky says, and some
people will listen to it and I'm really changing subjects
here for the example of it. And you can flip
it around and say, wwe got it wrong when they said,

(02:35:20):
I bet he hasn't even met Lance Kid, so how
can he speak for him when he was one of
his best friends in wrestling, you know, he teamed with
him for years, they went up in developmental together. So now,
wwe look completely foolish and as if they're just firing
first and naming later. So there's times where there's an
exception to every rule, and this is one where I
think the speculation on Bishoff clearly, as you said, easily debunked,

(02:35:43):
but it doesn't change the fact that that's so persistent
to TNA. That's the natural inclination for people who follow
it is to think, Okay, what game is being played,
or who's trying to sabotage an idea that isn't there
so that they don't look, so that they don't they
get credit for their idea working, and they can sabotage
somebody else. There is a sense that that goes on,
and part of it is because that's all they talk about,

(02:36:03):
you know, the old guys are out there. It's like
all these references Kevin Nash especially and Stinging and Bishop
and Hogan. It's like, I just where in their mind
do they think that there's an audience out there that's
still reliving the Torch cover story from nineteen ninety eight.

Speaker 9 (02:36:20):
And the one is the one that you and I
can't even remember. I mean, that's I know, Yeah, it's stunning.
And you know, this again is going off topic. But
since we're talking to and A, I was watching, Like
I said, I was watching an Impact before we started.
You're doing this tournament, and I mean, I can complain
all day about another title tournament in wrestling.

Speaker 7 (02:36:41):
But.

Speaker 9 (02:36:43):
If you're gonna do it, do it right. Show me graphics,
make me up feel special. Don't just make it seem
like you're opening round match is just another Impact match.
They failed there. I mean, why would I pay money
to see the semi finals or the finals when you
basically make it seemed like this is just another tournament,
no big deal.

Speaker 4 (02:37:03):
Well, I think they think that Bishop can walk out
there and say it's a big deal and therefore it is,
when in reality it Yeah, I mean, you just throw
formatses out there.

Speaker 9 (02:37:11):
You don't feel the brackets and there's show guys backstage
going this is my chance, this is my opportunity, or
why am I not in this tournament? And it's and
it's the same as the ranking system.

Speaker 4 (02:37:21):
That I know, which was, by the way, where were
the rankings?

Speaker 2 (02:37:25):
Yeah?

Speaker 9 (02:37:25):
Yeah, I think it's because the tournament's going on or something.
I don't know, but I I was so I love
the idea of a ranking system in wrestling. I know
it's something that you've championed for a long time. But
when you're gonna if you're gonna do that, you can't
just here's your rankings at the top of the show
and then nobody reacts to it whatsoever. Nobody's upset that
they weren't included, nobody's questioning their spot. It's just no,

(02:37:49):
that's my spot, and we'll have a match to decide
if I should move up or not. It's it's the
little things like that that they could be doing so
much more effectively to make these ideas actually pay off
for them.

Speaker 4 (02:38:01):
And I think I think the idea with the rankings too,
is it's I mean, I'm kind of being a little
sly with saying that I like the concept because part
of the reason I like the concept is. By definition,
it's supposed to define your booking a little bit better.
It's supposed to discipline you because you have to start
thinking about wins and losses. If you're obligated to reveal
your top ten rankings after every pay per view, you know,
because if they really are gonna they don't. I mean,

(02:38:23):
they do so many things, you know, one third or
two thirds of that. They've build so many bridges, you know,
two thirds of the way across the river, but they
rarely really finish these things. And to do the ratings right,
you've got to talk about them more. You've got to say,
after a match on a pay per view, this guy lost,
he was ranked number six, Taz, where do you think
he's going to end up because of this? And Taz

(02:38:44):
needs to eat, sleep, and breeze this. It's his job.
He gets paid good money. The booking should be good
enough where it's worth his time. And I know it's not,
but I'm saying an ideal scenario, and Taz should have
on the tip of his mind who four or five
or who three, four and five were I head of
number six And if number six wins a pay per view,
that Tad should say afterwards, well, number six won this

(02:39:05):
pay per view match, and you know what, in the
last two weeks on Impact, number five and number four
both lost. So therefore I think he's probably going to
move to number four if the Championship Committee is looking
at the same data that I am, and then Mike
Today can go yeah, But I think the win, or
I think the fact that number four held his own
with number two for so long even though he lost,
should mean more than number six's win over what we

(02:39:25):
would think was inferior competition. That's the kind of thing
that turns it into a sports like environment, and people
will get into that. You know, it is possible to
get people into fake fights, just as much as it's
possible to get them into fake arguments or fake mystery
gms or fake NXT vote offs. Just I mean, everything
about wrestling is fake. But it seems like bookers look

(02:39:46):
at the fact that the matches are fake and they
think that because the matches are fake, that's the only
thing they can't really take seriously, and everything else it's fake.
They take quote seriously. So the ratings need to be there,
But you got to go all the way with it,
and I think the reason they avoided talking about the
ratings last week after promising them the week before and
the whole even show is their bracketing made no sense
if you actually reveal what the ratings were, because other

(02:40:08):
certain people in the top eight weren't included, and you
would have to start explaining that. And I don't think
they like to think that hard, even about their own booking.

Speaker 9 (02:40:16):
No, I think you're right, and just looking at the
tournament itself and the remaining wrestlers, I'm pretty frightened by
what match we're going to get a Bound for Glory,
because I think the obvious one is that Jeff Hardy
and kurd Angle match that is a dream match for
some fans, and instead, my guess is that we get
mister Anderson against kurd Angle. And I like both guys,

(02:40:38):
but there's just nothing about them that really makes me
want to pay to see them wrestle against each other.
I don't know. Maybe they'll maybe the build will be
strong enough that they'll be able to change my opinion
on that, but it just doesn't jump out at me
as a, oh, yeah, there's your Bound for Glory main event.
It strikes me as more of a oh there's your
TV Maine event.

Speaker 4 (02:40:58):
Final question here, we're running kind of along in the
f show. But as far as RVD doing that really
bloody angle, yeah, at the end, and then the ratings
being down this week. I mean, you can always point
to a lot of things that might explain why ratings
are down. But I thought, with Bishoff announcing at the
beginning of the show, you know, Rob van Dam is out,
I wonder how many people didn't think, oh, Rob Vandam's gone.

(02:41:19):
You know, they stripped him to the title. He didn't
lose the belt, and there might be just frustration with
that in general, you know, oh another guy gets stripped
of the title, not a title, didnt change hands on
the ring once again. But I think some people might
have thought I was watching this because of RVD, and
now rvd's probably not even gonna be around, and so
I don't even want to watch it, and and so
you get that that's a negative. Plus they should have
had its dates planned out, and this eight week absence,

(02:41:41):
you know, while he's recovering from his injury, however long
it ends up lasting. I just think it's bad planning.

Speaker 2 (02:41:46):
You know.

Speaker 4 (02:41:46):
The whole thing with rbd's just been more of a
mess than than I really anticipated it would be.

Speaker 9 (02:41:52):
It has, and why not just you know, Bishoff dropped
in the line about how he went to see him
at the hospital and then he starts talking about how
he's welcomed back with Hope in arms anytime and blah
blah blah. How about delivering a mission statement that Van
Damn gave you at the hospital about how he feels
horrible that he that he can't be that he can't
go out there now, but you can you can be

(02:42:12):
sure that when he's healthy, he's going to be back
and he's revengeance.

Speaker 4 (02:42:16):
And now of those.

Speaker 9 (02:42:16):
RVD fans from Hope that okay, he's not here now,
and maybe have Jeff Harny interrupt that promo and say
he you know whoever, I just say Hardy because he's
been kind of tied to Ban Damn, But have him
interrupt that promo and say that he's going after Abyss
because of what he did to his buddy. And then
at least you give those RV defans something to watch

(02:42:37):
where yeah, I want to see Jeff Hardy get revenge
for Rob.

Speaker 4 (02:42:40):
And this isn't fantasy booking in the sense of saying, oh,
here's what I do. Wouldn't this be neat? It's not
like all like our specific examples that we give are
meant to mean, there aren't a hundred other specific examples
that could work. What you're illustrating is there's certain things
that have been done throughout the years in certain whoever
you want into it. But when you present the champion

(02:43:01):
is two injured to defend its title, there's good examples
and there's bad examples of how to do that. And
TNA takes all the bag of tricks from all these
decades and decades of successful promoting, and they didn't pay
attention to how they succeeded. They just remember that they did.
But they don't study their own industry enough to understand
or have a good enough memory. And you and I
aren't want to talk today about that. But you know,

(02:43:22):
if you're booking your own show, you go back and
you look up some of these things. Do you talk
to people and you take the time to figure out
how has this been done? What makes common sense, what's
just logical? How this would work if it were real? Well,
of course you'd get a comment from Rob van Damp
and then how has it been done in the past
in a way that worked, okay, and now here's our
idea and how to present it. What's a possible backlasher?

(02:43:42):
What's a hole in this well? You know TNA wants
to have a world champion, but they're in this unfortunate
situation they don't have one. It's certainly not rvd's fault.
We're gonna look bad for stripping a guy of a
title after he's injured without making it super clear he
can't defend within thirty days. What should have happened is
RVD have been a better explanation for why TNA chose
to strip somebody of the title who did nothing wrong,

(02:44:04):
And there should have been, like you said, more of
a follow up. We should have heard from RBD, and
you know, he might have even been one to say,
I'm gonna be out more than thirty days. I don't
want TENA to be without a championship during that time.
I'm reloquishing my title and have management say no, no, no,
you can't do that. That's not fair, and have RBDD
go no. Our fans deserve to have a world champion.
I don't know how long I'm going to be injured,
but The last thing I want when I get back
is story about defending my title. What I'm going to

(02:44:25):
be focused on when I get back, at least for
a little while, is getting revenge. And all of a
sudden boom, you've got your storyline set up for RBD.
You've got an excuse for stripping him of the title.
I mean, there's ways to talk this out, and to
come up with multiple ways that would work. The way
they did it is like just obviously not the way
to go. Yeah.

Speaker 9 (02:44:42):
I just think it's a case of you know, long
to wrap this up, Bischoff, he just isn't in touch
with wrestling anymore, not paying as much attention as he should.
And I just don't I've never since he's never.

Speaker 4 (02:44:54):
Been a micro book booking mind anyway. Even when he
was successful, it wasn't he wasn't micro managing the bookers.

Speaker 9 (02:45:00):
No, No, he wasn't. And I think he's a big
concept guy and with Vince Russo, I mean, it's just
the same old story. I don't think the guy has
what it takes to be an effective booker in this
day and age. No, I agree with you, and I
don't think Tommy Dreamers the answering, and he was sitting
in on meetings this week. You know, there was a
lot of people in those meetings, so it's hard to

(02:45:20):
say that he was you know, involved in the actual
creative meeting that's held the Wednesday after the tapings generally,
but he was in like the agent slash creative session
that took place on Monday afternoon.

Speaker 4 (02:45:34):
Yep, Jathon, thanks so much. As always, we always run
along when we get on a roll like this, but
appreciate it. Absolutely good show, welcome, welcome back to civilization.

Speaker 9 (02:45:45):
Yes, thank you so much.

Speaker 4 (02:45:46):
All right, thanks al ready for listening, all the dot
net members and p tow b torch members for joining
us here in the VIP after show. Until next time.
This is WAYE Teller and the Happy Jason Powell signing on.

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