15 YRS AGO LIVECASTS: Summerslam, Edge & Christian, Goldberg, ECW-themed TNA PPV, Mystery G.M., Heyman

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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 2 (01:06):
Now.

Speaker 3 (01:06):
PW Torch and Speaker bring you the Wade Killer Pro
Wrestling Podcast. Fifteen years ago, on the PW Toorch Daily Cast,
James Pauldell hosted back to back nights, first the July
twenty first episode with PW Torch columnist Pat McNeil as
his co host, and then on July twenty second, he

(01:27):
had PW Torch nostalgia specialist Brian Hoops.

Speaker 1 (01:30):
As his co host. Their topics included TNA's ECW theme
to pay per view, the latest on Paul Hyman's interest
in working for TNA, WWE SummerSlam plans, a spoiler discussion
of SmackDown Summer SLIGMN plans, where Outdertaker fits in the picture,
how long WWE could stretch the Nexus angle, whether WWE
should add or subtract from Nexus NXT season two, a

(01:51):
top ten for who to start a promotion with interesting discussion.
There also complete look at that weekend's live events, and more.
The second show with Brian Hoops includes Shawn Michaels back
in the news, WWE's mixed signals on him, TNAM PAC
similarities and differences between TNA and WCW. Would TNA use
wwb's ECW footage, history of Saturday Night's main event, with

(02:13):
ww announcing a new NBC special Bob Beckland compared to
other territory champions, the NWA's relevance in twenty ten, the
possibility of an Edge and Christian reunion. The more things change,
the more they stay the same, potential opponents for Goldberg
if he were to have a final match, and more so,
let's get to it. This is the wayde Keller Pro
Wrestling Podcast fifteen years ago, Live cast flashback four Friday,

(02:36):
August first, twenty twenty five.

Speaker 4 (02:38):
Here we go, not.

Speaker 2 (02:49):
All listening to the PW Towards live cast. This is
P to B Tors Assistant Editor James Caldwell bosting today
on Wednesday, July twenty first, and I'm joined by P
to B seorch Palm Pat McNeil on of course, Pat
mc neil, Wednesday, How are you doing today?

Speaker 5 (03:05):
I'm doing fine?

Speaker 6 (03:05):
Hello are you people?

Speaker 2 (03:09):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (03:09):
We get we've got a We've got a fun filled
out coming out.

Speaker 2 (03:12):
We do. There's a lot going on w W T
and A related Uh Pat, what's the pay per view
coming up next month for T and A?

Speaker 5 (03:22):
I believe that would be Hard Justice, although I think
they're thinking of changing the name to Hardcore Justice, which
you know, even newly is funny. For some reason, I.

Speaker 2 (03:33):
Think I see how many more weeks we have for
that pay per view? Probably three three bow Wednesdays will
get you to.

Speaker 5 (03:39):
And you know, you know, James, the time you want
to change the name of your pay per view is
after all the advertising already goes out for it and
the you know, to.

Speaker 2 (03:48):
The cable companies exactly exactly. It's sort of like w B.
You know, I've seen a few ads for SummerSlam and
they don't exactly have Triple as prominent. But I mean,
he it's I mean, that was sort of the guy
they're gonna build the entire Summer stand around when they
expect him to come back from injury, and now it
sounds like he's gonna be out until later this year,

(04:10):
just with that that arm injury that he has, the
arm surgery he recently had, and then he had the Undertaker,
who you know, I guess we'll go ahead and throw
the spoiler disclosure and spoiler. Uh, he's not gonna be
part of Summer stand least in terms of the main event,
uh for the World title match after what happened to
Smackgun taping. So well, what's your take on two big

(04:32):
names not being part of at least I didn't take
at least isn't part of the World Title match? At
summer steming go. He could be added to the car
later on, but what should take on those two items?

Speaker 5 (04:42):
Well, with Undertaker, I think that they you know, they
had to change stuff around due to injury, that they
they were willing to let this whole Ray Mysterio Versus
came things play out, So I wouldn't be surprised if
that match happens and then we see Undertaker's appearance now
after that and if it is King who is the

(05:03):
villain in this, you know, Kin gets very very nervous,
So I mean that makes sense. As for as for
Triple H, you know, we might not sim until the survivortriies,
but but but uh, I mean it's still there where
he would want. You know, in theory, you would want
revenge against Seamless, and I don't unless Shameless gets injured,
he's not going anywhere, So you know, you're perfectly safe. Plus, if,

(05:26):
as we've been pointed out, if if Triple H is
supposed to be behind Nexus, that means you can drag
out this this whole mystery General man Or is supposed
to be the mystery general manager, you can drag this
thing out another couple of months.

Speaker 2 (05:39):
Do you any if they can drag this thing, this
thing out, let's say it's a will the fall the
end of the year. I mean, does this have enough
life to it or does it kind of depend on
you know what, do they find some of these NXT
guys they can actually break out and be legit singles
wrestlers and have legit singles matches order to kind of
depend on you know, what happens at SummerSlam.

Speaker 5 (05:59):
Well, I think I'm with Wade and Jason on this.
I don't think there needs to be a Mystery Nexus leader.
I think maybe, you know, maybe it's way Barrett and
the Mystery General Manager is just using the Nexus guys
for whatever the Mystery General Manager's game is. I mean
probably know, probably know the Mystery General Manager Stephanie mcmam.

Speaker 2 (06:18):
Yeah, that's always a possibility. That seemed to be logical
when they first started it, because there was someone that
Vince McMahon and his character would get complete control of
the show too. And they kind of toned it down
on Monday. They really had one you know, quote unquote
appearance by the Mystery gm odd Raw, which I thought

(06:39):
was a definitely a good move to kind of tone
that down. It helps with the overall flow of the show.
Do you think they're going to they're really tone that down?
You think they're gonna keep trying to drop hints. I
mean that they kind of drop those, and that's a
bottom like this so Uncle said, so did the Roddy
Piper hint? They really toned it down on Monday. Do
you think that's a trend that's gonna continue?

Speaker 7 (06:59):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (06:59):
I think that there is enough intrigue with with John
Cena and UH and the Scena kids fighting UH fighting
Nexus at SummerSlam, because you know, I mean, how much
more do you really need to throw behind him? I mean,
there's no need to there's no need to strump the
whole general manager thing.

Speaker 2 (07:16):
In the right. It seems like something that they could
kind of push to the back burner a little bit.
You know, obviously it's got to be there for continuity,
but just push it to the side until Summer Slam
and let those those top two matches and then the
SmackDown side they're a big match be the focal point.
Randy Horton sham that, you know, what do you think

(07:37):
of Warton Shamans as your headline match for Summer Slam?
I mean, it's not a it's not a it doesn't
grab you like a major headline pay per view match,
But I think it's a good matchup. Uh what do
you make of that as the headline match for their
second biggest pay review of the year.

Speaker 5 (07:52):
Oh, I mean they've already did it. They did it
at the World Rumble. I think they were at a
point where they they had to get away from Scena
versus Shamas again. So when when you have to do
that and Sina's got something else to do, then then
that's what you That's when you tossing your number two guy,
and Orton right now is the number two guy. And
if I think you know, I'm finding it's it's it's

(08:12):
a match of people I think are gonna want to see.

Speaker 2 (08:16):
I think so too. I think Orton has a lot
of momentum behind him. He's got he's got Twitter behind
him now with trending on on Twitter. That's a ton
twister earlier this week. So I mean, I feel like
now is good time to strike, and I don't think
they'll put the title on him. I went to see
a nice chase and then Summer sent to kind of

(08:36):
be the I guess the setup for a lengthy chase
perhaps with Orton and shamans Uh to lead into the fall,
while with NXT being your backdrop storyline with with Sina.
So I think raws in a good position for the fall.
It's spending on how much more juice they have in
the in the next angle, Uh, you know kind of
you have your Yeah, your eye has to be a

(08:57):
Monday night football. What are you gonna do to a
post football on Monday nights? You know they can make
this next to thingle really you know, a strong part
of the show and keep it fresh on a weekly basis.
I think they have a good foundation for the fall
months in the fall season, so we'll see very very
interesting right now.

Speaker 5 (09:16):
Yeah, well, what do you have to do to post
Monday Nights football? Well, all the same thing you did
back in nineteen ninety nine, in two thousand, which is
put on you in nineteen ninety eight, which is put
on interesting shows exactly.

Speaker 2 (09:27):
Yep, we have quite a few people and holds. Everybody
wants to talk to you Pat today, so it's going on.
They want to talk to you too, James.

Speaker 5 (09:35):
They haven't been on the live cast in a while.

Speaker 2 (09:38):
Yeah, it's just a Funday, So that's not too bad.
But well, of course we have TNA to talk about too,
a lot of stuff with TNA and the New Boy,
so I'm sure that will come up. Pat, we'll talk
about that for you and.

Speaker 5 (09:49):
I Yeah, for those of you who missed, I think
if you listened to yesterday with Jason Powell, he explained
a lot of what was going what's going on and
on his website too, so.

Speaker 2 (09:59):
Right and also a Jason on proosting dot net had
a lot of insight uh and and center info and
the TNA plans for the pay per view, the Hard
Justice ECW pay per view next month. Also the prost
torchs nudelitter that was just posted yesterday. Jason had a
lot of scoops on that, so you can read that
if you torch VIP member, if you're not a toward

(10:20):
VIP member, you're crazy. And if you want to find
more information on how to become a Torch v IP member,
go to PW torch dot com slash go vip for
all the insight and all the info this week going
on in wrestling. So well, now we'll plug out of
the way. Let's go in and plug the phone I'm If
you're going to join us on the live cast today,
the number to call is six four six seven two

(10:42):
one nine A two eight, and I advise going ahead
and calling that number to get in line for the
show today. Let's go and take our first call today.
Let's go to the ninety three to one area code
nine three one. Welcome to the show. Please stay tram
handing where you're from. Hey, it's the Interest Tennessee. Hey,
and you're like a traditional first caller. It's great.

Speaker 8 (11:02):
I am, Yeah, I get I guess I have to
get ready for work about this time.

Speaker 2 (11:06):
Some might as well call him up late. But my
question was I.

Speaker 9 (11:11):
Wanted to get you guys opinion on had they've more
or less.

Speaker 10 (11:14):
Given Jack Swagger Kurt Angle's moves hit?

Speaker 7 (11:18):
Now?

Speaker 2 (11:18):
What's your take on that? Yeah?

Speaker 5 (11:20):
I think well they gave him the move set because
I think they're you know, I think the writers have
taken out all the old Kurt Angle scripts and they
are and they're reusing him for for Jack Swagger, and
I mean it's a similar and it's sort of he
he can't do that sort of sense of humor and
that I think Swagger will be better off. You know,
sticking to more serious stuff, especially if he's going to

(11:40):
be a main inventor for a while. Yeah, that that's
exactly what they're doing.

Speaker 2 (11:44):
What was just fly with me? I think, you know what,
it's so interesting now. I think a lot of that audience,
one of the w audience says kind of forgotten about
Kurt Angle, I mean, just based on him going to
TNA where there's just not as much awareness of tna
IS products. Then you have Angle's just not really featured
on He's not reference on w TV, He's not featured

(12:06):
in any of their sort of classics on demand recaps
that they throw on TV. So I think, you know,
DEVI is well with then. I think it's fine that
they're trying to make I mean, I don't want to
say they're trying to make Jack Swagger their Kurd Angle.
I think they're just trying to use a lot of
elements from Kurt Angle, so kind of build up Swagger

(12:27):
as it, you know, kind of using the amateur background,
the moves, the look, the singlet. I think it's fine.
I think it helps get over what Slagger's strengths are,
which is his move set is big, tough look in
his amageur wrestling background, so I can kind of do
without the comedy bits and him on the phone with
his mom or you know, bringing in his dad. We
don't really need that. But overall, I think it's fine

(12:49):
what they're doing with him.

Speaker 5 (12:50):
No, I mean, James, I actually think that they're too
lazy to write new material and they're just using the
old stuff.

Speaker 2 (12:58):
It's true, but for a whole generation of fans as
they have, I don't think a lot of them know
who Kringle is, just to at least contribute to you know,
so so a lot of the audience, it doesn't seem
like a rewrite. It seems fresh. Yeah, he does. Giving
any other question to follow?

Speaker 10 (13:15):
Uh, now that's it.

Speaker 2 (13:17):
I completely agree.

Speaker 6 (13:18):
I think it's a lot better than anything they were
doing with him last year, very early this year.

Speaker 2 (13:23):
But that's it. If you can leave me on Hope,
I'll pey.

Speaker 4 (13:25):
I'll have a good day.

Speaker 2 (13:26):
Sure, thanks, Sam, appreciate it all. Let's let's keep go.
Let's go to the nine to five area code nine
two five. Welcome to the show. Please stay taming. Where
you're from.

Speaker 11 (13:38):
Hey, there's Dante from Walma Creek, California.

Speaker 2 (13:40):
Hey, good, how are you doing.

Speaker 5 (13:42):
Hi, Dante doing pretty good?

Speaker 2 (13:44):
How are you guys great?

Speaker 11 (13:48):
I just wanted to say I've been a long time listener,
first time call her.

Speaker 2 (13:51):
Love for you guys the show.

Speaker 11 (13:53):
I'm hoping to be getting into the VIP as soon
as possible.

Speaker 2 (13:58):
I do have.

Speaker 11 (14:01):
Two questions about a little bit less than a month ago,
somebody mentioned the Rock is a possible mystery GM, and
I've been kind of leaning towards that a little bit,
just because he seems to be the kind of person
would just based on his personality, would not necessarily emulate
other legends but.

Speaker 2 (14:22):
Sort of tease them for his own kind of a
bit of a boost.

Speaker 11 (14:28):
And I know that he has been talking about getting
back into w in a bigger.

Speaker 12 (14:33):
Sense than just like a guest host, right, And I know.

Speaker 2 (14:38):
That his movie.

Speaker 11 (14:40):
Contract is up, So I was thinking, you know, if
you guys thought if he was revealed to be the
mystery GM, how do you think they could go about that?

Speaker 2 (14:48):
I mean, would they have to turn him heal or
would would that?

Speaker 13 (14:54):
You know, would he possibly be in.

Speaker 6 (14:55):
For a match or two?

Speaker 12 (14:58):
What are you guys stamp on them?

Speaker 5 (15:02):
I think it's highly unlikely he's coming back, I mean,
and for them, you know, for them to just have
him be the GM and that's it, because he would
only do the one appearance. I can't imagine him signing
on for you for a month, just based on how
busy he is and how and the ungodly amount of
money he can make doing movies as opposed to working

(15:22):
for WWE. I mean, it would be fun to have him,
you know, at the end of this, be the general manager,
but then you've had all this build up for nothing.
And yeah, I mean I thought before that they could
do something like this, but I think the Rock is
very careful about how he has booked and and I
know he you know, in the past he has not

(15:43):
wanted to just be a John Cena and go along
with whatever this writer's script for him. He'll want some
input on it, so you know, I wouldn't expect to
see it.

Speaker 1 (15:53):
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Speaker 14 (16:32):
Uh you know, okay, sort of.

Speaker 2 (16:34):
The Rockets toss around as an idea pretty much once.
I mean they've had those angled off for about four
weeks now. It seems like every week there's an idea
for the Rocket And you though, to me, obviously what
he's talking about earlier this year about wanting to come
back and kind of you know, blow up the script
and be part of WV for more than a guesst
hostien gig, it makes sense for him to be the GM,
but I don't know how they pull it off. And

(16:56):
like Pat said, I don't know if he'd want to
just do an anonymous g roll and be part of
an angle for you know, the summer or for the fall.
I mean, obviously he's got movies promotes that gives him
a platform to promote his movies, and then that would
seem sort of I don't know, it wouldn't It wouldn't
sort of fit with him trying to promote a movie
while also trying to be part of a major angle

(17:16):
on Raw, so and I to find a way to
balance that. I mean, Rockhill is a possibility. And and Pat,
you and I have talked about this before. I'm not
even sure if everybody knows who they haven't Yaan Foorda's
GM role. So yeah, they could you know, sort of
retro fit the Rock into that role. Uh, you know,
two two months from now, three months from now, a
couple of weeks from now. But I agree with that.

(17:38):
I don't see it happening. It wouldn't be interesting. Uh,
and it would certainly lead to interest, and I don't
know if it will lead to long term interest, but uh,
depending on what they'd do with him if he was
in that role. But I don't see it happening.

Speaker 5 (17:49):
So now now he told me, he told me Dante that, uh,
you know, the Rock and cut a deal where you
know where he's gonna wrestle Johnson at WrestleMania and he'll
he'll do a couple of tape promos and he'll come
in for a week or two before that to build
up the pay per view. I could see that more
along the lines of something he'd want to.

Speaker 2 (18:07):
Do right right.

Speaker 11 (18:10):
That was kind of what I was assuming might happen.
My second question just kind of following that with with
SummerSlam on the way and with you know, the big
stories and storylines and rivalries that they have for WrestleMania,
they really do push the envelope for especially these two

(18:31):
pay per views. My question is, with all the abysmal
raw shows and in my opinion, really horrible gimmick pay
per views, what's stopping them from really going the next
level just in a regular pay per view or weekly
nights on Ron SmackDown. I mean, is just it is

(18:55):
just creative and competence or.

Speaker 5 (18:58):
Okay, well, I picked can you restate the question please?
I mean, I mean, why are you saying, well, are
you saying why don't the show is good on the
weekly basis?

Speaker 11 (19:08):
In a sense, I mean, it just seems like they
really they go the extra mile for leading up to
Summer Slam in WrestleMania and then just kind of seem
to slack off the rest of the year.

Speaker 5 (19:21):
Well, I mean that's you know, the problem is everything
that happens on TV pretty much has to be run
through bensic Man or at the very least Stephanie McMahon
and I mean, you know, I mean these are the shows.
You know, what does VNSA band get excited for, Well, events,
gets excited for WrestleMania and maybe the occasional pay for
view at the Garden and yuh Stephanie and and Triple

(19:41):
H and Brian Gowurtz. You know, they're excited about SummerSlam
because in LA and you know, the writers get to
make contacts with people in Hollywood and they get to
line up hopefully some more great guest hosts and celebrities,
and you know, they get they get to show off
with their peers. How great w W is and and
usually Summerslam's ww at their best were close to it,
I mean to I mean, it's money reasons. Those are

(20:04):
the two big shows of the year, and those are
the show they put the most.

Speaker 2 (20:06):
Attention in company, right, And I think what they've also
done is they've sold themselves in the idea that these
concept pay per views they can go in there and
just kind of throw together, you know, here's a pay
per view with the DLC match, Here's a pay per
view with Money in the Bank match, Here's a pay
per view with Elimination Chamber. Here's a seven on seven
tag match for quote unquote bragging rights. They're under the impression,

(20:29):
or at least they've sold themselves in the idea that
they can just sell these pay per views on these
concepts and they really don't have to focus too much
on let's create this hot view that's gonna culminate in
September of this random pay per view or in October
of this pay per view that's kind of in between
two bigger pay per views. They've sold themselves in the
idea that we can just sort a concept then also

(20:49):
the pay per view, and we can spend four weeks
of TV and just sort of reinforcing this concept. You know.
That's sort of what they convinced themselves on for the
other twelve the other ten months of the year when
they're not going to WrestleMania in SummerSlam. So I think
that the byproduct is that sometimes the TV does seem
either uh, you know, like it's filler or a lot

(21:11):
of the contents filler or you know obviously this before
or just other elements that that Raw is often criticized for.
But like Pat said, it's like this is the time
of the year and tries to put their best foot forward.
Uh and the rest of the time of the year.
You know, it's just there's a little bit of a letdown.
It's just kind of natural in the way do Be's
businesses run. Plus just the way that the shows, the

(21:32):
the off brand pay per views are mapped out. It's
just it's inevitable that there will be a letdown. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (21:38):
Hey, you know another another reason for this, which uh,
I'm sure James would have gotten to given enough time,
is that uh. I mean, you know, WWE has not
you know, they they've gotten away from uh they putting
attention on the writers, which is why they clamped down
after Russom for our left. They got away from focusing
attention on individual bevas, which is you know what, this
is why they have don't don't we pushed individual ones

(22:01):
after you know, China Unstable and and Lada and Trish
Gatis are gone, and you know they are getting away
from you know, they don't want the focus to be
too much on individual wrestlers. They want to keep the
salaries low, and they want people excited about w w
E and the WWE you pay per view concept, and
not so much about John Cena or the Undertaker or

(22:22):
Jack Slager or Seamus because you know that that's a
good way too, you know, because one of those guys
comes to them to renegotiate their salary, they can say,
well we can you know, we can do this wrong again.

Speaker 14 (22:32):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 2 (22:33):
Right, it's it's reinforced the brand first, the wrestlers second,
everybody else third. Yeah, that's yeah. I pad hit it
right there. Donte any other question to follow up now
you pretty much hit it. It's just keeping on old WI. Great. Great,
We appreciate the cards for calling it. You're listening to

(22:54):
the PW TOWRDS live cast. This is PW Torchs Assistant
editor James Caldwell osting today Peter B. Torch's columns Pat
McNeil on Pat McNeil Wednesday. Of course, let's uh, Pat,
before we jump in live, Vincent, let's get another call
in in the first twenty minutes of the show. Let's
go to the sixty five to one area code six
five to one. Welcome the show, please stachan and where

(23:15):
you're from? Here goes this is conference and fall. Hey Tom,
what's going on? Hi?

Speaker 6 (23:21):
Tom?

Speaker 15 (23:22):
Not much?

Speaker 16 (23:24):
He Well, a couple of quick questions for you guys. One,
you know you guys touched on it earlier. Rim Stereo
is facing Caana SummerSlam and not the Undertaker coming back.
But could they start doing something I know they did
it with Kane a while back, and then they did
it with Frandy Orton again where you know, like after
the match, you just hear his bells and you know

(23:47):
it's like he's coming back, but you know it's just
kind of the foreshadowing of it and getting Cane, you know,
if she's the one doing it, just wigging out like
they've done with before with it.

Speaker 2 (23:59):
So there's that they would they would use Undertaker on
the on Summer Slam just sort of you know, or
promoted his return and not actually using him in a match.
Is that kind of what your idea is.

Speaker 16 (24:13):
Exactly after you know, Kane beats Mysterio, just the arena
goes dark and you hear the bells and you know
you hear you know, the Undertakers kind of signature song
coming on and then let's go on, and Kane's got
this really worried, like, oh God, what's about to happen?
Look on his face and get that going for a

(24:33):
little while.

Speaker 2 (24:34):
Yeah, what's your take?

Speaker 5 (24:36):
They could do that, Tom, I'm I just have a
feeling that if they're gonna give the Undertaker the uh,
the you know, the big half million dollars special effect
field entrance, they're gonna do it on Summer Slam rather
than I'm on the SmackDown and Bakersfield or wherever, you know,
two days after Summer Slam.

Speaker 2 (24:56):
Yeah, I'm really interested to see if they perhaps turn
that match into a three and reintroduce an Undertaker. Just
I mean, the advertising for Summer Slam on the Money
during the Money in the Bank pay per view and
obviously Kane winning the world titles seemed to set up
Kane and tak Her they obviously win a different direction
and yes to a TV taping. So I mean they have,

(25:16):
you know, three or four weeks to add the Undertaker
into that mix somehow. It'd be very interesting to see
what what they do with him if they do add
him into that match, if they sort of just advertise it, yes,
he will be on the show in some form. Uh,
and they don't actually tell you what he actually is
gonna be doing.

Speaker 7 (25:33):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (25:34):
I mean, now, do you think they're gonna make it
into a three way match to the g Undertaker on
that pay per view in a title match?

Speaker 14 (25:40):
They could?

Speaker 5 (25:41):
I think it depends on how, you know, how how
much they want to push this pay per view, how
much they think it will help the buy rates. I
mean they you know, they already apparently have plans to
do an Undertaker versus Kane feud after Summer Slam. It's
just a matter of it's just a matter of how
far into this. I mean, they could do that, and
it would probably be you know, it would probably make

(26:04):
it a little easier on Ray, Misterio who's banged up,
an Undertaker who's probably not one hundred percent, and Kane
who's getting older. So yeah, I think I'm talking myself
one way.

Speaker 2 (26:12):
It's the bells and whistles match exactly. I mean, Kane,
I mean, this is pretty much Kane's last run. Undertaker
isn't banged up and on for play five years now.
Ray always banged up, So yeah, I think I think
we've talked ourselves into a three way just to I
just for I mean, you look at Kane and Ray.
I mean they can do a lot of stuff from

(26:33):
that big man little man thing with what they do
with Swagger and Ray. But you know, Kane doesn't have
the mobility as Swagger and Swagger. I think Swagger is
really developing in the ring. Kane and Ray was the
scene before as well. We saw that on SmackDown before
the matchup doesn't sound that great from a a Wow,
it's gonna be a great match standpoint, It sounds like
something that could be intriguing storyline wise, but I think

(26:55):
they need to add that third or you know, perhaps
even four. You know, Heaven forbid person into a match.
So I'm liking the three way possibility with Taker, Ray
and Kane once they actually get to that point.

Speaker 5 (27:06):
So well, I mean, you know it, Uh, normally you'd
like to have a one on one match, but I've
just seen so many I've seen Mysterio versus Kane, and yeah,
it doesn't strike me as something you need to, you know,
you need to do. The other possibility is you could
have h you could have you know, the announced you
know whatever. The backstage interview person is on smack Down.

(27:28):
I don't watch it that often. You know, you just say, hey,
well you know, kay, we're hearing the Undertaker will be
back at summer slamping, and Kane just going no, I know,
I know the Undertaker is in a vegetated state that
will never happen. Blah blah blah, and keep it that way.

Speaker 2 (27:43):
Yeah, yeah, and then they can insert the mysterious video appearances.
You know, maybe Taker a show up on a mirror
backstage as Kane backstage.

Speaker 5 (27:52):
You know that that's for stuff they please please not
with the mirror.

Speaker 2 (27:57):
Come on, you know what's gonna happen. It's an EpiTable
the Kiddie Show. Yeah yeah, all right, don Ton, did
you have any other question to follow up?

Speaker 16 (28:07):
I just had another question kind of it's not really
really to anything topical, but I was just wondering, you know,
if you guys started your own company, you know, Wrestling
Company today, and could poach anyone off you know, either
KNA or w W roster, who would you make as
you know, your world heavyweight champion, you're kind of second pier,

(28:28):
you know, you know icy title, you guys title champion,
and who would you make a tag teams champions and.

Speaker 8 (28:36):
You guys can put me on hold and all listen.

Speaker 2 (28:38):
Great were perished to call Tom bad? Do you want
to stick that first? Well?

Speaker 5 (28:43):
Yeah, first of all, if you if you want to
see how we run a company, well, join the Torch
b I p U join the Torch b Ip section
and be a part of our So we need people
there you go, and I also have one part of
an independent company. Sole just pick the people we'd start,
just do it ports draft as it were.

Speaker 2 (29:01):
Is that what he's saying?

Speaker 17 (29:02):
Much?

Speaker 2 (29:02):
Yeah, let's just let's just you know, let's just say
who's your top ten? If you were to say these
are my top five? Way, my top five?

Speaker 5 (29:09):
Miss hard okay, but I want somebody to transcribe it.
So when Wade ask for a draft column this year,
I can just forward that to him and say here,
you know, turn this.

Speaker 2 (29:17):
All right, Well yeah we'll put them on it. Yeah,
go ahead.

Speaker 5 (29:22):
I think you know, John Cena has to be your
number one just for and I know some people don't
like John Cena, but you can always change his character
if you want to make him less of a you know,
if you want to be less a kid family and
more adult friendly and be he's he's pretty darn good
as a wrestler, and see, everybody knows who.

Speaker 6 (29:39):
The hell are you?

Speaker 5 (29:39):
So you get that's one. Let's see Brandy Orton probably
probably is two. I would love to have let's say,
you know other other guys I'd love to have. You know,
this is this, This is not as easy as you think,
by the way you Davey Richards. I mean, I assuming
I could talk him out of retirement, that would be three. Yeah,

(30:01):
you know, I'm I don't even worry. I don't worry
too much about tag teams, but I would probably want
Robert rud and James Storm from TNA. Plus, you almost
feel obligated to take somebody from TNA. You know, Joe's
got to blow. I mean Joe, Joe has to get
closer to one hundred percent physically than he is because,

(30:22):
I mean, this is not the same Samoa Joe we
all enjoyed seven years ago. He is he has put
his body through a lot. Uh, somebody's asking if if
one of the guys i've Chicky Singer who's my biggest
fan on the chat room, is asking if Jake Machine
Davis would be in my top five. I I you
know Jake the Machine Davis, former CPW champion. I'd i'd

(30:45):
hire him. Yeah, a good guy. He's a good guy.
He's just the He probably won't Johnny Is probably won't
be calling him. Let's just let's just go with that.
So that's that's fine to start with. That's not that's
my too awful. I I might want uh, I might
want Jack Snyder. I'm thinking about this.

Speaker 2 (31:07):
Yeah, you've got to be in your top ten, no doubt.

Speaker 5 (31:09):
Yeah, I think I think so. I might even watch
Seamus Yeah, I got that balance, Okay, and and Sam
Puncast I take him.

Speaker 2 (31:20):
Yeah that's eight right field. Yeah yeah.

Speaker 18 (31:25):
Need an extra dose of positivity in your wrestling podcasts.
Will come join me Alan fourrel Over in the Progress
Paradise at Peter Torch v I p as we ask
on the bright side of wrestling and focus on some
of the great matches and shows from around the world,
be it the US, Japan, Europe or Mexico. There's always
a place for wrestlings past in the Paradise too, and

(31:48):
we've done fun historical shows such as the We Love
Liger series celebrating the glorious career of Juice and thunder
Lighter and I was there when shows where our guests
will join me to talk about a classic bout that
they were in attendance for. We love variety and you
can expect lots of it at the Progress Paradise. Detailed
p twreof Torch VIP subscription. Information on a list of

(32:10):
all the VIP benefits is available at pterbrew torch vip
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with popular podcast apps on iPhone and Android devices, or
you can stream them directly from our ad free VIP
mobile site. See you in the Paradise.

Speaker 5 (32:32):
Kobe Kingston, I'd like to have him interesting. Yeah, yeah,
and you know, since too many seven foot tall or
five hundred pound giants around, I'll probably take the big
show and it can be our special attraction.

Speaker 2 (32:44):
There you go, get out the social attraction, the big show,
a battle royal. It depends on whether it's an independent
promotion or a national promotion. But either way, you gotta
have a big show or an equivalent big man. Okay,
I guess to run through my quick top ten, say
Sino Whorton, I agree with that. I want Jack Swagger.
I need somebody who's relatively young. Otherwise I would have

(33:07):
gone the kurd Angle, But I don't see much I don't.
I mean, Krangle has been on the tail end of
his career for probably five years now, but he still
seems to be able to put out great matches.

Speaker 5 (33:17):
But he also, I know what you're saying about kurd Angle,
So I got the impression if they had an actual
non quack doctor look over kurd Angle, there's no way
that he gets cleared to wrestle.

Speaker 2 (33:27):
Yeah, He's kind of gonna say is that he always
seems to be one match away from this is it?
You know? So I take Swagger as my angle to
kind of bring this full circle from the top of
the show, and then I take the machine Guns and
Beer Money as a tag team. That'd be my tag
I'd be the basis for my tag team division. I

(33:48):
like Kofin and I also like Cody Rhoades. I like
what they're done with what I don't like everything that
Cody's been doing since he returned the Smackdowns. He's even
made the dashing gimmick work, which is amazing. That a
is a puff one great, yeah, yeah, yeah, And you
know what I'm gonna take I'm gonna take Alex Riley.
I me know a lot of people aren't as high
on him as as I've been, but I really see

(34:11):
something in him. I just there's just something he has
that I that I would want on my roster. Even
though he's not that experience in the ring. He hasn't
a national TV but seven weeks. But he's someone I
think could be built around about four or five years
from now as one of your top heels. So, uh,
that's my long term investment and long yeah, I'll pull
him defic too.

Speaker 5 (34:30):
Alex Roley is the prime of Fairfax, Virginia former Robinson Ram.

Speaker 2 (34:35):
It sounds like every time, because of promo, he tries
to tell himself, don't do the accident, don't do the accent.
It's like he's trying to stifle his, uh, his Virginia
accent every time he talks.

Speaker 5 (34:45):
I noticed that those Fairfax accents. Yes, for those of
you who aren't being on it, Alex Riley is actually
Kevin Kylee Junior, the son of Well, I guess he's
still broadcasts football and basketball occasionally have son of Kevin
Kylie the announcer.

Speaker 2 (35:01):
There you go back in the day that was the
East Coast Report bringing us UH bringing that great insight.
Yeah what at the top of the hour. So what
I figured we'll do is we'll hit We'll hit some
live calls and the rustle of the show after you
do the Light Event Center. Got a ton of shows

(35:23):
this weekend with it also on TV as well, w
B T and A Ring and Water Dragon Gate USA evolved,
on and on down the list, he goes, So we'll
go ahead and hit the Light Event Center, break it
down for us, and then we'll we will take straight
calls off the last twenty five minutes or so of
the show. So pack go ahead with the Light Event
Center on the road.

Speaker 5 (35:44):
Okay, James, go ahead and grab a snickers. I think
we got this for a while, all right, WW Superstars
Tomorrow night on WG and America. Your main event James
with a rematch, a rematch from Running in the Bank
the Heart Dantasy defending the w W Tag Team titles
against the USO Brothers. Then on Thursday nights it is
TNA Impact.

Speaker 2 (36:06):
In addition to the.

Speaker 5 (36:08):
Big Part two of the UH of the Extreme, follow
up matches will be well include Jeff Hardy versus Samoo,
Joe for the first time ever on free TV and
match number two of the best of five series over
the TNA World Take Team titles. It will be a
street fight between the MotorCity Machine Guns and Beer Money,
and if it's as good as match number one, then

(36:28):
I think you should definitely, uh definitely settle down in
front of the TV and and check that out. TNA
House shows this weekend. They will be in Bloomington, Illinois
and Laporte, Indiana. Lineups both nights and our Samoa Joe
versus aj Styles, plus the main event Monsters Ball between
Jeff Hardy and the Best ww SmackDown on My network

(36:50):
this Friday night, and again another big set of matches.
It will be a big show taking on the mass
straighted society member. I know a lot of you or
philled about that, plus the two out of three falls
main events Raymisterio versus Jack Splagger, as alluded to earlier
in this program. W W House Shows this weekend, RAW

(37:10):
is on tour through Texas and Louisiana, including a staff
in James one of James's favorite places, Houston, Texas.

Speaker 2 (37:16):
With Yes good plug at the show.

Speaker 5 (37:21):
I believe the main events are Shamus versus Johnson and
a lumberjack match and Randy Orton versus Edge and a
fill in the name of the town street type match.
So that'll be good.

Speaker 2 (37:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (37:33):
Uh yes, ren of Honor, big weekend for them. That
kicks off on Odin Night, which is Tomorrow night in Louisville,
Kentucky at the Davis at the obew Arena, the Danney
Davis Arena, whatever you want to call up there, the
r O H Bluegrass Brawl, the Kentucky Debut.

Speaker 2 (37:49):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (37:49):
The main name matches are the Bisco Brothers versus the
American Wolves and a non title match as r A Champion,
Tyler Black takes on one half of the tag team champions,
Claudio Castignol Evolved the Gapes of Polski and Stalhamalley Promotion.
We'll be doing Evolved four on Friday night in Union City,

(38:11):
New Jersey at the Ace Arena with an eight pm
Bell Prime Evolved four. His title Danielson versus Fish. No,
Brian Nielson will not be taking on Abe Pagoda. He
will actually be fighting Bobby Fish, who has wrestled under
different names before and I can't keep track of witches Witch,
but he's he's worked for Ring of Honor Before that
is your main event. The semi nain event is a

(38:32):
battle of two guys who are undefeated and evolved, Jimmy
Jacobs and Chuck Taylor. Ring of Honor of Friday night
in Collinsville, Illinois, a suburb of Saint Louis. Main matches
feature a mixed six tag team match with The Kings
of Wrestling Tema with Sarah Delray against the Brisco Brothers
and Awesome Kong or Amazing Kong or whatever they're calling here.

(38:52):
Plus the main event, it will be Generation Me versus
the American Wolves. Generation Me formerly the Young Bucks Our
Lags in Frontier Field US on Saturday night in Chicago Ridge, Illinois.
Your main bouts include The American Worlds versus Cult Cabana
and El Jenerico. Another special attraction match, the Kings of
Wrestling take on Generation May and for the rh title.

(39:14):
Tyler Black depends against Kevin Stein in what might generously
be called a clash of Styles. Drag Usa will be
taping it's Enter the Dragon two pay per view at
The Arena in Philadelphia on Saturday night, the twenty fourth.
A Dragon Kid will not make the show. Gave Sepolskian
outset this afternoon today pat plenty of Japanese guys that

(39:36):
they've flown in there. The main matches are the match
the elimination match between Kamikazi USA and the Chicago team
plus Dragon Gate World Champion Masado Yoshino. That's an eight
man tag. Also bb Halk defends the Freedom Gate AKA
American title against Mustaki Motuzuki. And the tay per View

(39:59):
Dark Match, which means it's gonna be on the DVD,
but do to certain arrangements with w W, will not
be on the pay per view. Brian Danielson taking on
Shingo and that should be good. I think I'll enjoy
that one.

Speaker 17 (40:10):
So there you have it.

Speaker 2 (40:12):
There.

Speaker 5 (40:12):
He is your live events center for the upcoming three
or four days.

Speaker 2 (40:17):
Stacked stacked across the board, so uh yes, and I
mean there's shows in Texas and Midwest. He's coach all
over the place. If you do intend, if you're listening
to us, either this weekend or live right now, be
sure to send us a report to p tw B
Torch at gmail dot com if you attend one of
this weekends big shows throughout the country. So God the

(40:40):
why you didn't send her in. Let's go ahead and
run through calls for the rest of the show. We
got a lot of people in holds. Let's wait no further.
Let's go to the eight to sixty five area code
eight six five. Welcome to the show. Please say sure
I know where you're from. Hey, what's going on? Guys?

Speaker 9 (40:54):
To Stephen from Tennessee.

Speaker 2 (40:55):
How y'all doing good? Steven?

Speaker 5 (40:57):
Thanks Steven.

Speaker 9 (41:00):
Guys that think week ben't able to call you? Guys,
they have been ask town doing stuff. My first quick
question is but the nextus? Do you guys think that
they're just gonna stay with this seven or you think
at some point they may start bringing in like newer
members like I say, like guys that while he was
in the company, guys like a Jamie Noble that had extreme,

(41:20):
extremely good talent, but just we're never really used as
far as like story lines got or anything like that.
So you think that they would could do that the
other features.

Speaker 2 (41:28):
Do you think they're gonna expand the group or do
you think they're gonna keep it? Uh, sort of in
this the seven number unit as it is right now?

Speaker 5 (41:35):
Well seven and then maybe if Brian Danilson comes back
it will be eight. I mean, I you know, I
mean you gotta remember the problem with the m w
O is how many people they uh, they dragged him
there and then it just it just became you know,
it became ridiculous after a little while. I keep I
keep the words.

Speaker 2 (41:52):
Yeah, I would keep the word is you know, maybe
they want to add one more than to round it
up to eight. H. I don't know who that would be.
It could be someone from n x T season two.
It could be a guy who's not being utilized by
W on the main roster.

Speaker 19 (42:05):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (42:06):
You know, I would say one at most, and otherwise
I would say, don't at anyone and kind of allow
those guys to kind of do their thing, and then
also perhaps you know, weed off some of them and
they could trim it down to six or five or four. H.
You know, I think someone like Darren Young, he is
not really standing out right now. David o'tongue has really
faded in the background, so you know, they're I think

(42:29):
they might trim it down more than they might expand it,
So that that would be my answer to that. Steven,
did you have another question or follow up.

Speaker 9 (42:38):
That's kind of a quick one that came in my head.
They think that they they're going to try to get
and then coegition to with Michael Cole as far as
like as announcing on roll it's kind of unbiased at
the times, and then he has put like a heal
guy on annextace. Did you ever think they're gonna try
to like coincid it too with them or just gonna
keep it separate that.

Speaker 2 (42:57):
What do you think?

Speaker 5 (42:57):
I guess I'm gonna keep it separate. I don't think
Michael Cole is the long term voice of WWE. They
have not really tried at all to protect his credibility.
I mean, you know, I mean, I don't know what
they're planning. They might even be planning to take Matt
Striker and tournamental play by play guy for all I know.
Oh no, uh well, they.

Speaker 2 (43:19):
Don't have any of the I mean, it's not gonna
go with Ross and yeah, you're right, that might. You know,
they're not high on Grisham. Grisham's just sort of a
placeholder on SmackDown. I mean, unless they've brought by Fyron Saxton,
who wasn't that great on E c W before anything.

Speaker 5 (43:34):
And they had and Josh Matthews was on NXT last
night and he just at times sounded like a deer
cotton headlights and Cole called him on it and it
was not pretty.

Speaker 2 (43:44):
He seems he seems really uninterested right now. I mean
just he seems sort of like he's caught up in
this role of trying to be the voice of the
Internet sometimes and he just doesn't have anything to say,
or he's not interested, or he's trying to sell this
interest and it comes across like he is he's not interested,
he's not doing he's not doing very good work right now.
You on NXT, so uh, I didn't They had Jim

(44:06):
Ross but they don't want to use him, so.

Speaker 5 (44:08):
Well, yeah, I mean that that's part of that. But
part of it is also Jim Ross. He's you know,
he's told him flat out he doesn't want to be
on the road sixty two weeks a year, and you know,
Vincer Hansfields and I think miss correct on this that, well,
if you don't want to be on the if you're
not gonna come to the arenas every week, you can't
really be here. You know, you shouldn't be announcing one
of our shows. I mean, and I think, you know,

(44:30):
maybe Ross can do sit down interviews that they are
on TV, of course without showing his face, of course,
because that would just be awful. And uh and you
know maybe in video packages and that sort of thing.
But uh, yeah, I don't think he's a player that
play guy anymore.

Speaker 2 (44:45):
Yep, Steven, we appreciate that call. We're gonna go ahead
and go to the next caller from the nine to one.
Oh aery code nine on one. Oh, welcome to the show.
Please stay training where you're from, Hannible for a Hey,
how ya doing? It's good? And well how are you, Hannibal.

Speaker 14 (45:01):
Yeah, everything's going okay, everything going okay, okay, yes, okay,
I got.

Speaker 2 (45:06):
A question to ash out to. You know, I know
it's kind of classical a little bit or whatever, but uh,
I was kind of.

Speaker 14 (45:13):
It seemed like the L O D was like the
L E team that basically man that really that he
pushed that really with his creation, okay, and the band.

Speaker 5 (45:23):
He didn't really push them all that hard. He didn't
really push them all that hard, Hannibal. I mean, they
won the tight titles and that was it, you know,
they uh, the last the only last couple of years
Vince did not want to pay them, you know, the
big money that he wanted to. He thought the l
o D should basically be making together what they made
of an action make and the l o D thoughts

(45:46):
things should be making, you know, their own they he
should be getting rich and of course Hawk had uh,
Hawk had drug problems and yeah, he's they they sort
of made an effort with l o D, but they
were led was never going the uh as the whole
Cogan level.

Speaker 20 (46:04):
Oh, I knew that already, I.

Speaker 2 (46:06):
Mean the defeated streak you know, in the early days too.

Speaker 14 (46:09):
You know, but I wonder I did figure out you
know that I want to figure out it lost the
tag bills, you know, I never you know, I'm not
for disasters.

Speaker 5 (46:16):
Well they uh, they lost the tag well they never
heard the match where they lost the tag belt because builts,
because you know, they that was the l o D
s last night in the company and they weren't expecting that.
So they had to create another babyface team. Having it
explained that the natural disasters cost the l o D
the titles would make it kind of awkward to them,

(46:38):
you know, introduced the l O T as the new
good guys, I mean, the natural disasters are the new good.

Speaker 2 (46:42):
Guys, right. Yeah, it's so funny to me that the
n XC last night, I didn't know at least three
natural disasters references during that show. I mean, that's just
a random thought that came to mind. But I mean
they seen the the turning husky Arias into this guy
and then next where they you know, to draw attention
that he doesn't have the typical body and at sometimes

(47:04):
at some points in the show, and it seems like
they present that as a string. Other times it present
as a weakness. I just don't I don't know if
they know what to do with us skiers right now.
I mean, I don't know if they know what to
do with half that ANXT cast.

Speaker 1 (47:18):
You can support us on Patreon and get these shows
with ads and plugs removed, the Weight Killer Prossing podcast,
Weight Keller Prosing post shows, and the PW Torch daily
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(47:39):
that's Patreon, dot Com, slash PW, torch VI i P,
and you can also upgrade to other tiers and receive
even more benefits through Patreon.

Speaker 5 (47:49):
But that's just a point that Yeah, I think you're right.
I think uh. I mean, you know, you go down,
you go down the roster there there's almost not not
enough stakes put these guys and watch they fire.

Speaker 2 (48:01):
Some people right right, And that's gonna be coming. I
mean this this NXC season isn't already halfway through. Uh.
They have a lot of guys who are just kind
of sitting there on on Superstars on a weekly basis,
or aren't doing anything on SmackDown. So you know, then
there's gonna come a time. I mean, we'll get at
this current this current roster on NXT season two, I

(48:24):
seen maybe two or three guys who could really be
standout performers on the main roster. I think a lot
of this. I mean, Lucky Cannon doesn't stand out, Eli Cottwood,
I think he might be cut next week. You know,
Loki is good or Cabal, he's gonna be He's gonna
stick around after that. It's sort of like you know
this Percy Watson is he kinda be good. Is he

(48:45):
gonna be that Santino guy on SmackDown? Just sort of
a comedy act for the kids, you know, so there
might not be as many coats as they might need, uh,
if they might have needed after season one. But I
just won't see this. This crew just kinda see any
out in season two. So may we appreciate that call.
We're going to continue on with another phone call. Let's

(49:06):
go to the seven two four area code. Seven two four.
Welcome to the show. Please stay today where you're from? Oh,
this is day from Pittsburgh. Hey Dave, what's going on?
I don't know too much. Thanks for taking my call.

Speaker 8 (49:20):
I have three questions for you guys, all right, I'll
try to make them quick. The first one has to
do with PNA, and I'll be honest with you. I
don't even watch TNA, but I attempted to watch it
whenever they had the Monday Night special in January and
then again in March, and it's just not something I
can watch. But I know they're doing the ECW Invasion Angle,

(49:44):
and I mean, that's like probably one of the dumbest
things I've ever I've ever seen a wrestling company, do
I mean? I just I can't understand why they would
want to bring back all these guys who were never
really that famous. I mean, they weren't like an Austin
or a Rock or a Hogan. I mean, look at Hogan.

(50:04):
That's a failed experiment as it is, and they have
these guys in there, and I mean it's I don't
even think it would increase their pay per view rates
as it is, you know, let alone if they brought
payment in. I mean, it's just a terrible idea. I mean,
let's say this, if if the WWE somehow and this
would ever happen, but if the WW somehow brought Austin

(50:26):
and Rock back to have one match, it well maybe
not Wrestlemingia, but let's just say to have one match.
I mean, how much interest would that really spike? I mean,
because it's the WW, it would, but it wouldn't. Going
back ten years, rewinding fifteen years whatever is not going
to move any company forward. I mean they're going to
They're going to be out of business within two years

(50:48):
if they keep continuing to do stuff like this. And
I don't want to see that because competition drives business
and well, you know, having a WW having competition would
be a really good thing.

Speaker 2 (50:59):
But doing stuff like this.

Speaker 8 (51:00):
I mean, I don't I don't understand who the logic
behind it.

Speaker 5 (51:04):
Yeah, may I tell this story?

Speaker 14 (51:10):
Yuh.

Speaker 5 (51:10):
As Jeff Jarrett has pointed out, TNA has done focus groups.
The most recent focus group several months ago. You know,
they they asked them what they liked for professional wrestling,
and a lot of them said that they liked DCW.
The problem is the focus group survey was taken in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.

Speaker 2 (51:30):
Yeah. Yeah, it's just when when I read that, I
just I just thought to myself, I mean, why why
would they put why would they do their entire focus
group in one city where you know, basically that's where
ECW was was headquartered, and that was where the their
main fan base was. And it's just you have to
get a broad perspective on your promotion.

Speaker 20 (51:51):
Why.

Speaker 2 (51:51):
I mean, it would be like, yeah, you know, WW
sending out of survey to fans in Pittsburgh saying you
want to see Bruno San Martino back on our TV show. Well,
you know, if you're if you're gonna survey a crowd
of and then you you'd be surveying a crowd of
you know, fifty year old people are above you know,
and ask that question, well, of course you're gonna get
an answer. Hey, we need to get BRANDI back on TV.

(52:11):
Does that mean they should know? That's just when I
read that, soap bizarre. Why would they do that? Why
would they think that that's gonna justify Oh it's temn
he said, we theme paper because we asked one one
fan base where East seventy was prominent, you know, ten
fifteen years ago. It just that was mind boggling when
I read that.

Speaker 5 (52:30):
So okay, but I'll just I'll just make this simple.
Everybody involved in upper management in TNA is either a
really dumb be really lazy, or see doing a lot
of drugs. See and not why I can't get suit
because I never technically said who's doing what?

Speaker 2 (52:46):
H boy? I just I don't know what to make
of that, of why they would think that. I mean,
and I have a feature calumn this week's Sorts newsletter
about sort of the experience being there at TNA's Victory
Road weekend. And you know, the company is run by
good people. That's just that's just what always in there.
That's always in my impression of TNA.

Speaker 14 (53:06):
But yeah, people.

Speaker 5 (53:10):
Do you know the Detroit Lions were running by good people?

Speaker 2 (53:14):
What?

Speaker 5 (53:14):
What's that The Detroit Lions were run by good people?

Speaker 2 (53:18):
Yeah, and that's whether you know they don't have the
business ends. They don't exactly. Uh. It's so frustrating when
you see they have the pieces there and nobody knows
how to put it together. It's like they're putting Uh.
There's so many analogies you can come up with. But hey,
let's go back to you. Did you Uh? I think
you said you had a couple of other questions? Well,
what else did you have for today? Well, I'll say

(53:40):
one thing.

Speaker 8 (53:40):
If I wanted to.

Speaker 15 (53:41):
Watch ec W, I'll just bust out my DVDs and
VHS tapes on that I have and I can watch
the real good stuff that I mean, I don't I
don't get replayed ten years later.

Speaker 8 (53:51):
But anyway, I'll skip the one question I had because
it was kind of second there.

Speaker 2 (53:55):
But I had a question about the VI I p uh,
it's I have an iPhone, okay, and I listened. I
usually listen to the live cast, like I'd.

Speaker 8 (54:03):
Listened to it tomorrow morning. Could I just download it now?

Speaker 21 (54:07):
Uh?

Speaker 8 (54:08):
Like all the audio you guys have is that downloadable
in iTunes or is it just can you just listen
to it on like a regular computer?

Speaker 2 (54:17):
You much anyway? Thinking about it?

Speaker 14 (54:20):
Yeah you can.

Speaker 5 (54:20):
You can listen to it on a regular computer. Yeah yeah,
wait it happened sent me the iPhone to test, so
I couldn't tell you about how it works on an iPhone.

Speaker 8 (54:32):
Uh yeah, yeah, I'm saying, And I thought anything, Did
I just download it through iTunes and and listen to it?

Speaker 6 (54:39):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (54:40):
Well he even works on a Zoom Okay, because I've
just downloaded to my Zoom and played it there.

Speaker 2 (54:46):
Yeah, they've they've I'll give you this info the pretty
much all the audio is. I know. We have an
RSS feed that I upload that pretty much right after
every audio update is upload and you can put that
in any any U, any our sets feed or any
program that plays the audio, and you can get the
entire list of all the audio updates. For VIP members.
You can download it to your computer. We have a

(55:07):
direct link on the VIP side. You can. It's also
available on iTunes as well, so you can put that
r set feed iTunes. Exactly, Yeah, very very exactly. Let
make it. Let me make it very consumer friendly. So yeah, okay,
I just I like the audio. I like to hear
a discussion and stuff. So that's cool, very good. You
can listen. You can listen to Pat and the VIP

(55:28):
roundtable for Mard in the Bank with Wake Keller and
Bruce Mitchell, so you can get that. You can get
that audio update for towards VAP members as well. So
good call, Dave. We appreciate that. Let's let's grab a
couple more phone calls the last ten minutes or still
in the show. Let's go to the Where do I
want to go to? I want to go to the
A oh two area code eight oh two. Welcome to
the show. Please stay your name and where you're from.

Speaker 17 (55:50):
My name is Richard calling from Vermont.

Speaker 2 (55:53):
Hey, Richard's on.

Speaker 6 (55:54):
Hi Richard.

Speaker 17 (55:55):
I'd like to I'd like to go to a topic
that didn't talked about that much, the screen wreck of
a campaign in the Senate race in Connecticut.

Speaker 5 (56:05):
Well, you know you know what I mean. I was
reading today that Linda McMahon is actually up to forty
percent in the polls, which which startles me, makes me
worried about how.

Speaker 2 (56:15):
You looking at it.

Speaker 17 (56:17):
That's funny because that's the only poll that i've I've
heard that's got it within nineteen percent right now. The
reason I called is that Rob Simmons is back in
the race again.

Speaker 2 (56:27):
Yeah yeah, I saw the headline right before well in
the air that Simmons is fairly back in after and
it kind of makes anything of his strategy all along
was you know, I'll kind of I'll fade away after
the private the what was it, the convention where the
primary is coming up next month? Fade away after the convention,
let the man get a little bit more heat on her.
I then, oh man, the big baby face come back

(56:49):
and say the party. That seems to be the strategy
all along. You know, he's back in the race. Perhaps
he sees it more support for him than he originally
thought or as part of the strategy. But it is fascinating.
I mean, the Wall Street Journal had a story on
McMahon I think Monday or Tuesday. It knew it was
nothing in there. It was just pretty much that of
the's TV product has been controversial over the years, and

(57:12):
it it missed the it missed the whole issue in
the rest of our health issue, I thought, but uh, now,
what's your Yeah, go ahead, with your more of your
thoughts on where McMahon is standing right now in this Senate.

Speaker 5 (57:24):
Race, Like that's that's pretty much it. She is trailing,
you know, generously, she's trailing by by thirteen points. Uh,
I did think. I mean, it's a little difficult for
her to catch up. And I'm pretty sure this whole
Senate campaign was cooked up so that uh, Vince could
get his wife out of town on the perm of
the papers, like uh, like Bill Clinton did with Hillary.

Speaker 17 (57:45):
Right right, Yeah, in terms of the campaign. Uh, what
the Simmons deal means basically is that mainstream Republicans in
Connecticut are rising up over the nonsense, you know, and
basically are just saying, I don't have an excuse for
voting for Bloomenthal, you know, to not talk about it

(58:08):
but go in and just silently pull the lever.

Speaker 5 (58:14):
Yeah, I'd like it if nobody talked about it and
just went on unpulled the leather.

Speaker 2 (58:21):
It's fascinating. I mean, I've we've been covering this for
nine months or so, and this whole race is it's
just so fascinating that McMahon says that she has this
dirt on women thal She's don't exposed a real Bloomenthal
when it comes time for you know, sort of the
build up to November and that race. I mean, there's
just so much on McMahon that when it comes down

(58:44):
to the actual race, when it's just Womenthal and when
it's just mcmon, there's just so much out there just
to cast a negative light on McMahon for you know,
for rightful reasons too. She hasn't she has not owned
up to pass issues health wise, programming wise, just tons
of wrestler health issues that she has not owned up to. Uh.

(59:07):
It calls into any question or character and you know,
Bluemithal is probably gonna hit on a lot of those
points and more. I'm sure some more stories are gonna
come out. They're gonna paint her in a negative in
a negative light, which you know, it's part of sort
of the the you know, do you want to vote
for this person? Process? So, Richard, did you have any
other thought or comment.

Speaker 17 (59:26):
On just one more that you had discussed before a
few weeks ago. So that's the the Democrat, Uh, the
Democrats up in Connecticut. Now it's the Democratic Moms over
the treatment of women in in in the w w
E I mean by raising that issue and Lynna McMahon
has absolutely nothing to answer on it. Yeah, what can

(59:46):
you answer? It's abysmal.

Speaker 2 (59:48):
Yeah, I mean that's why, that's why the issue as
a campaign manager to sort of discredit, you know, discredit
to people who are bringing the accusations and and that
in politics oftentimes they are wor and that's kind of
her only strategy right now. Yeah, we're sure we appreciate
that call. Thanks for calling in, good political discussion. Let's
go on and squeeze in a couple more.

Speaker 5 (01:00:11):
I don't really appreciate that call. I never want to
talk about Lenna McMahon aghan as possible.

Speaker 2 (01:00:17):
It's gonna come up that I mean, it's gonna come up,
come out, it's gonna come up.

Speaker 5 (01:00:22):
But what I what I've said is pretty much what
I'm gonna say each time.

Speaker 2 (01:00:25):
So moving wrong, Let's uh, let's go to the seven
eighty six airing code Sevenday six. Welcome to the show.
Please stay shure you know where you're from. We'll have
a superstar caller and who is this? Where are you from?

Speaker 14 (01:00:43):
Hello?

Speaker 5 (01:00:46):
Patrick?

Speaker 2 (01:00:47):
Hey?

Speaker 21 (01:00:48):
Pat him?

Speaker 2 (01:00:55):
Sorry, we're gonna go and skip in. Let's go to
the two of you here it go to or too
welcome to show. Please stay trame where you're from.

Speaker 4 (01:01:05):
Uh, this is Chris calls from GC. Hey Christmas, not much,
nothing much. I had a I had a question to
ship my mind when I heard you guys say that
that TNA focus group was done in Philadelphia, which I
thought had couldn't have been true. But once I heard that,
it made me wonder, who's the roundtable that all the

(01:01:26):
decisions go through. It seems like it's not Dixie. She
obviously has somebody in her ear telling her bringing GGW
guys in wearing Holge big Vishoffen and I want what
I would like to know is why doesn't she realize
that it's not working? I mean, the ratings are still
where they are the most half the group when they.

Speaker 2 (01:01:46):
Went the Monday.

Speaker 4 (01:01:46):
They haven't gotten them back. What is it gonna take
for her to uh wake up?

Speaker 2 (01:01:51):
Basically?

Speaker 5 (01:01:53):
Uh, bank transplants.

Speaker 2 (01:01:59):
Go on through the to the poem. I know they
came about with this what what's the Oh my god,
you know it's he'd been following this, this whole uh,
this whole Haymon to TNA story.

Speaker 5 (01:02:11):
It just gets you know, the more It's one of
those things where the more you learn about it, the
more just just absolutely unjustifiable and awful. The whole thing is,
I don't know if you you may not have known this.
The Paul Hayman on the UFC Weekend did a lengthy
interview with with Dave Alter, the Wrestling Observer and and
talking about, you know, how how he was being contacted

(01:02:32):
by TNA and what he wanted in return for P
and A and then in return to going to P
and A and UH and talking about and basically he
said that the TNA product sucks. So three days later
he goes down to Nashville I think it is, and
meets with Dixie Carter and you know, basically tells her
most of the same things that that we heard on

(01:02:56):
the interview. So Dixie the next day finds out, you know,
find out that Hayman gave an interview and already talked
about all this on the internet and including the part
about TNA sucking, and she was not very surprised and
very upset.

Speaker 22 (01:03:13):
In twenty twelve, NXT transitioned into the developmental system and
ultimately the brand you see today on the Torch VIP podcast,
NXT eight years back. We'll be taking a weekly look
at this page in NXT's early history.

Speaker 19 (01:03:29):
Joined Kelly Wells and me Tom Stout from PWT talks
NXT every Saturday as we go eight years back to
the day to track NXT's rising talents and why they
did or didn't work out exclusively for PW Torch VIP members.

Speaker 2 (01:03:46):
Bet she didn't know that she had done this interview
ahead of time before he.

Speaker 5 (01:03:49):
Went according it with Jason Powell. No, and it's telling
that nobody in her company said, Hey, there's this interview
with this Paul Hayman guy that you're talking to in
a few days. You know, I want to check out
what he says about TNA because the people I guess
in TNA don't want her to know that. You know
that if there are people out there who don't think

(01:04:09):
the company is very good, you know, like the ninety
nine percent that's not watching it.

Speaker 2 (01:04:14):
Amazing there there's there's TNA. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:04:18):
Well no, Well, the other great part is somehow in
this week's Wrestling Observer there's a recap of the meeting.
There's a recap of the meeting between Dixie and Paul
Hayman including you know, it oftentimes, you know, oftentimes a
word for word recap of what was said. So I'm
sitting here thinking room gee, I wonder how Dave Milter

(01:04:38):
got that. But apparently it was a close source close
to the situation. Who you know who who? Uh yeah,
have all the material, but that pretty much buried Dixie.

Speaker 2 (01:04:50):
So just so there you go. There you go, take
it for what it is. Yes, Chris did in your
question and he follow up real quay.

Speaker 4 (01:04:59):
Yeah, just one last thought having heard all of that,
if Paul Hayman does not join, he's pretty much their
last effort since JR. Resigned with w W. They're not
making any money with their pay per views. How long
did you give this guy?

Speaker 2 (01:05:15):
How long did you.

Speaker 4 (01:05:15):
Guys give this company business before they actually go out
of business?

Speaker 2 (01:05:20):
All right, well, Matt, you and I will take down
the after show. Thanks for having the one and tune
in tomorrow.

Speaker 7 (01:05:35):
Thank you for using blog talk radio. Goodbye.

Speaker 2 (01:05:39):
All right, Pat, we're now in the VIP after show
a portion of the show or towards v I T members.
We can go ahead and finish up on that question
on T and A. You know, if they don't bring
in Hayman, was that sort of their last effort to
turn this company around, or do you think it's you know,
there's they're fine, just kind of holding status quoth the
next however, long Pan of Energy is happy with this company,

(01:06:02):
or at least happy having this company on their books.

Speaker 5 (01:06:05):
Well, I think for that answer, you know, James, I
I have done journalism before, and I'm reluctant to tell
you how you how you do your job, but I
think you should call Panda Energy in the morning, try
to get hold of Bob Carter and say, hey, Bob,
how long are you planning to shovel money down this hole?
And you know, see see what his response is.

Speaker 2 (01:06:25):
He'll get me a corporate answer. No, hey, were referring
to his PR department, and they'll get in.

Speaker 5 (01:06:29):
Okay, well, yeah, you'll probably right about that. But because
because that's it, I mean, that's it. I mean, that's
the only you know, that's the only way you're gonna
find out if Bob is honest with you.

Speaker 2 (01:06:40):
Yeah, and you know that's what the thing that this
company can go on for five, ten, fifteen years just
doing the exact same things, shooting themselves in the foot.
You know, as long as Bob gets the Key Dixie
away from Pan Energy, and we've talked about that before
that it pretty much seems like the main reason why
he funds DNA so that Dixie has a job that

(01:07:02):
doesn't include her working directly for Panda.

Speaker 5 (01:07:06):
Yeah. Check check pie Pat McNeil v I p column
archives for UH for for the well for insulting TNA
for the past several years. I think I think that'll
be included in there. But yeah, that's that's that seems
to be it. Well, here's the here's the I don't
know if you call a scary thing, but DNA was actually,
you know, profitable or at least not losing a lot

(01:07:27):
of money up until they made the big Porson brought
in Hogan and Bischoff and Flair and r v D
and Jeff Hardy and all those salaries just sort of
put it without the return, put everything out of black.
So if if TNA brings in somebody who cuts all
the salaries of the people who just aren't cutting it anymore,
and I think Hayman has intimated in so many words

(01:07:50):
that he would do that, then it wouldn't you know,
then it wouldn't take much to put the company back
on the black.

Speaker 2 (01:07:56):
Yeah, I mean they have I mean, look at their strengths.
They have a right roster that is properly booked and promoted,
and if you create awareness for who they have on
this roster, it's a strong roster to build a company around.
I mean, you know, Ring of Water would kill to
have that roster, and then they could do a lot
with it. I mean obviously them not exposure to do

(01:08:17):
anything with that.

Speaker 5 (01:08:18):
I mean Ring miters paying good money this weekend to
have you know, the young boxer generation me, who are
two guys who are at the very bottom of the
TNA totem pole deadlineing their shows for a weekend And
you would think that that would be a hit somebody,
but it's not.

Speaker 2 (01:08:35):
Right and and it's just it's amazing. I mean just
sort of being there last weekend and taking in the
whole experience is just well, especially I kind of rose
about this in my call. But the biggest eye opening
thing was that the way they shoot their TV and
the way it's presented presented on TV, it's so different,

(01:08:56):
and it's so what's what we're looking for? It's yeah,
they just don't take advantage of what they shoot on TV.
It's like they butcher what they have, what they shoot
in the impact zone. It's just it's not a compelling
TV show. They don't know how to shoot her, they
don't have the right production staff, they don't obviously don't
have the right creative and they won't make any changes
and won't.

Speaker 5 (01:09:16):
Because because Dixie is too nice and doesn't want to
fire anybody. And for those who ye mean, and I
know I've talked about her connection with Vin Russo, but
Vince Russo has in the past wanted to fire people
who were his you know, who he didn't like, or
who were his enemies, or people whoven want him an oscar,
and Dixie wouldn't let him do that either. Dixie is
controlling the hiring and firing, right Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:09:38):
And also, you know, Russo kind of needs he needs
those those fall guys too. I mean, he's got to
have those guys around. So I'm sure there's there's people
he wants to keep around. It's heead of creative and
obviously Dixie's put off her trust in him is creative
as of creative, and those guys he needs a fall
guys as well. You know, when certain things don't go
right on TV, he has somebody to blame.

Speaker 5 (01:10:00):
Yeah, that's actually a good twice. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:10:02):
So, I mean you have those two things in play.
You have Dixie doesn't want to fire anyone russo who
needs fall guys around, And you have a company that's
that's Status Flow, that's what they are.

Speaker 5 (01:10:13):
And for her already fell they you know, yeah, they
didn't renew his deal. So yeah, and they have h
and Tommy Dreamer is going to be writing the e
c W pay per view, which means you know, I
call that, but which means if that slops, then then
they already have somebody lined up to blame.

Speaker 2 (01:10:29):
Part exactly exactly going to the fall guys thing. You know,
Russell said, I didn't book this, you know this why
didn't work? Well, it wasn't my fault. I didn't book
it Dreamer did you know. So it's it's Russell winding
up this political uh, his political fall guys in the
event that something doesn't work out.

Speaker 5 (01:10:46):
So well, yeah, for those of you who are listening,
for those of you who are listening yesterday, and for
those of you who uh who are subscribed by Pro
Wrestling dot net. Uh, Jason Pale explained that they cut
a lot of stuff from the from the Invasion angle
at the end of the Thursday's show because they thought
of made TNA look too weak to have everybody champion

(01:11:07):
ecu W, which would be fine if you know you
were you weren't trying to promote an ECW pay per
view in two and.

Speaker 2 (01:11:14):
A half weeks.

Speaker 5 (01:11:14):
I guess, uh yeah, wow, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:11:18):
I mean if I noticed that when when I was
at the actual live taping, I mean, first of all,
it was a mess. I mean you had really no
I didn't really know who to root for or who
who was likable, who was on who the side. But
it did make the entire ten roster look weak when
they shot the entire deal, I mean only only bits
and pieces aired on TV, but I mean they ran
to that entire roster, uh like there were nothing. I mean,

(01:11:40):
obviously it wasn't the entire roster, but it was most
of the roster. So when you got Raven, who can
barely move, he's got double knee braces on, and he's
said he's kind of going through your entire roster, then yeah,
it did kind of make TNA's roster look weak. You know,
that's probably not the right way to go. But the
way they shot it, I mean, I'm sorry, the way
they presented on Thursday, I mean, they made the TNA guys,

(01:12:02):
I'm sorry the other guys. It just it didn't feel
like there's anything special. It's just here's a bunch of
guys doing run in. So they went, you know, they
went the opposite direction and that didn't work. They could
have gone the opposite direction, that wouldn't work, So they're
left with just at other angle. That's kind of how
it came across.

Speaker 5 (01:12:22):
Yeah, my other question is, Okay, let's let's say that
you wanted to do this city, you decided, you know,
even even planning for this. You can't get Paul Hamman,
but you still want to do this ECW's teams pay
for view. Is there any honest to goodness reason why
you can't push that off until September so you have
the time to set it up properly, make sure the
cable companies have all the advertising, you know, you know,

(01:12:44):
let lay it out a little better. I mean that
you know, that sort of thing, because I'm pretty sure,
you know, I'm pretty sure the same circumstances will be
in play in September.

Speaker 2 (01:12:53):
Yeah, you would think so. I mean, that's I don't
know what. I don't really answer that either, unless they
wanted to have an additional months to set up Bound
for Glory in October. Oh, culture, you know, that might
be the main reason they would have go ahead and
do this now. I don't know. Maybe the hard Justice,
you know, like you said at the top, they could

(01:13:14):
turned into hardcore Justice, and that would be they couldn't
do that in September with whatever the September pay per views.
I don't know.

Speaker 5 (01:13:22):
Yeah, okay, Yeah, it's just an interesting thing you want.
Do you have anything else?

Speaker 2 (01:13:28):
Yeah? I was gonna say that. What's your take on
this with Jason reported the newsletter this week in on
dott Net RVD and Jerry Lynn as your proposed main
event for the pay per view in August, What's I mean?
Obviously trying to recreate one of the better matches in
ECW what's fifteen years ago? What's your take on that

(01:13:49):
match in twenty ten as a pay per view main
event with no backstory on Wynn.

Speaker 5 (01:13:53):
To the audience, Well, I think again, it's it's telling
here you go. You've said up Robbandam versus Abyss. Abyss
is arguably the guy that you've been shoving down people's
throats the most of the past and six or seven months.
But then you decide, you know what, ROBMANDAM versus ABYSS

(01:14:14):
might not draw, So we're going to bring in Jerry
Lynn to be the main event.

Speaker 2 (01:14:18):
Keeping in mind that.

Speaker 5 (01:14:19):
Jerry Lynn a works for Ring of Honor and b
he works for Ring of Honor because your company decided
five years ago that Jerry Lynn wasn't a big enough
drawer or a good enough calend or whatever to keep
on your roster.

Speaker 2 (01:14:33):
YEP.

Speaker 1 (01:14:35):
Anytime you're watching ww E Raw or SmackDown or AEW
Dynamite in particular, send us an email if you've got
thoughts on the show or a topic you want us
to address, or a question for us. Wade Keller Podcast
at pwtorch dot com, Wadekeller Podcast at peakw torch dot com.
If there's anything else going on in pro wrestling that
you want us to address on our main podcast during

(01:14:56):
our mailbank segments, that same email applies Wade Keller pop
Cast at PW torch dot com. We invite that interaction.
Let us know what you think of what we're saying,
and let us know what you want us to talk
about and ask us specific questions. Wadekellor Podcast at PW
Torch dot com.

Speaker 5 (01:15:14):
It's just okay, yeah, And I mean, I mean the
Big Round Band and versus Garylyn match that everybody everybody
thinks about is nineteen ninety eight. That was twelve years ago,
and I mean it reminds me back in two thousand
and this is one of the rare things in WW
that was not been Thrusso's fault. So I just want
that on that understood. Kevin Sullivan was in charge and

(01:15:37):
he put together a match at Super Bowl two thousand
which was Rick Flair and Terry Funk doing a rematch
of their I Quit match from eleven years earlier, nineteen
eighty nine. And there was nothing really wrong with seeing
Rick Flair and Terry Funk do their match, but shockingly,
all it did was remind people that they had a

(01:15:58):
much better match in nineteen eighty nine. And I think
they were both eleven years younger in nineteen eighty nine,
which I think, here's what's going to end up happening here.

Speaker 2 (01:16:08):
Yes, yeah, And you know the promotion of it, you
could say, oh, you know, here's Judy Lynn a Pioneer
Dex Division and they have reference with on TV recently.
I think I think that then he Slammiversary paper View,
they did reference him on the air. They said, thanks
to all these fine people who have been part of
TEENA from the beginning. But it's just it's so dated,

(01:16:33):
it's it's not gonna sell. I mean, what other ECW
matches are out there that, I mean, even beyond Philadelphia
would interest people to actually paying money to see it.
Is there even a matchout that haven't been done and
done and done you know via wweeh that they could

(01:16:54):
someone that could bring in and it would be halfway
intriguing to get somebody interested.

Speaker 5 (01:16:59):
If it's not just that they did. You know, it's
not so much that you already have pretty much the
entire ECW library that with a little bit of effort
you can go out and find and own whatever you
want from the original ec W. It's it's and it's
not so much that they brought back ec W and
then did One night Stand. It's that, you know, in
addition to that, you've had everybody and I mean that

(01:17:22):
Shane Douglas, Jeremy borash Tna, I mean, you know, the
various people all promoting their e c W reunion shows
on the indie scene, and you know, outside of a
couple of shows that ran at the Arena in Philadelphia,
it didn't you know, it didn't go off and they
didn't sell a lot of DVDs. So yep, And you know,

(01:17:44):
I mean, Frank, when you go back, when you go
back to the old ECW stuff, I mean, it's fun
if you remember it, but you know, a lot of
it just doesn't stack up today.

Speaker 2 (01:17:54):
It doesn't. You know, it's uh, it's dated. It's very dated. Yeah,
you know, I mean we're kind I wasna say. The
word detour gets thrown out, thrown out a lot about
you know, this paper view sort of detour and they
can kind of go back to what they were doing, well,
what they were doing before this whole east W team,
can it not wasn't not great to begin with. So

(01:18:16):
if they're back to restarting the restart, you know, uh,
it's just it's another it's another prolonging, prolonging of the
issues that they have yet to address. It's you know,
they got they have boun for Glory in October, which
bothfully will be a legitimate reset of this promotion and

(01:18:38):
they can do something you know, in two months. But
you know, unless you change the players, then the game
is gonna be the same. It's the same game. So Pat,
do we have anything else? Do we have any even
know bad this week?

Speaker 5 (01:18:52):
Or yes we do, James, we do, so I think
and I think you can help answer me. Just starting
to Defense host eight, who is writing from Columbus, Ohio.
He says, here's a question for you. If WW was
to turn sena heel, would be the most effective.

Speaker 6 (01:19:07):
Way to do that.

Speaker 5 (01:19:09):
The younger fans don't have a guy they care about
more than Seena, so he couldn't cheap out someone that
would make him heal with the younger fans. So what
do you think of WD turn do to turn Seen
a heel?

Speaker 14 (01:19:17):
If they do?

Speaker 5 (01:19:19):
I mean, I think he's gotta I mean, the short
answer is, I think he's got to turn on the
kids and the teenage girls. You know, and I have
preteen girls that are that are.

Speaker 2 (01:19:27):
Behind them the hardest.

Speaker 5 (01:19:28):
And he's done sort of a I mean he's he's
done a heel character, and a heel character whild have
had more teeth to it so they could do it.
They'd be they'd be really dumb to do it now, though,
I think.

Speaker 2 (01:19:42):
Really, I mean, the only way they could do that
is if they had another very hot young babyface who
appeal to the sandemography and can do a story where
you know, it's kind of like, uh, I'll just use
an example, because I have I have, I have my
years to the ground slightly in pop culture, but it

(01:20:02):
seems like the uh, the pre teen teener audience is
kind of turning on the Jonas Brothers a little bit.
So it would be sort of that thing is, let's
say another band came along and that was hotter than
Jonas Brothers and kind of kids, and then the young
girls were gravitating more toward that band, and you know
there's Jonas brothers kind of sitting there say no, what
about us?

Speaker 23 (01:20:22):
You know?

Speaker 2 (01:20:22):
And they could do that with Sina where he said
what what about me? You know, I've done this, I've
done this, I've done this, I've been low to all
of you people. And it would require a very hot
young babyface to come along, and they just don't have
that person.

Speaker 5 (01:20:35):
Oh, I mean, they could they could have, you know,
they can have they can have them turned on Ray
Mysterio and I think that's about it, you know, right now?

Speaker 2 (01:20:42):
Yeah? Yeah, but I mean, you know, Ray, I mean,
how much longer does they have, you know, three years?
I mean, they could have a really hot program for
you know, just kind of finish off race career. That's
you know, that's an option. So it would have to
be they'd have to have another very strong, you say,
some along that would he be able to replace Sena

(01:21:03):
and be be hotter than Sena and have seen it
turned heel on that guy.

Speaker 5 (01:21:07):
So yeah, I mean, I'm sure Sena would have fun
being a heel, but I don't think it's it's in
their plans, all right. So moving along, Notorious nine to
ten checks in from Norfolk, Virginia. Question number one, is
there a match that you've seen on pay per view
or tape that you wish you could have witnessed in person?

Speaker 6 (01:21:27):
Oh?

Speaker 5 (01:21:28):
Yeah. The short answer is, I think I would have
liked to be there at WrestleMania thirteen to see to
see Brett Hart and Steve Austin and Austin turning babyface.
But I don't think I would have liked to have
been there for any of the other matches on that shows.
Constructing the constructing the question narrowly. That's that's the one

(01:21:48):
I came up with. Well, James, do you have one?

Speaker 2 (01:21:52):
Yeah, I would say Austin Rock and Wrestlingia seven seen
the Astrodom. I was listening California at the time. Didn't
come back here to Houston for that, So that would
be the one that I wish I was there for that.
But at least I was there in Houston for Michaels
and Takers. So I figured in my mind I've made
up for to some degree. I think they have.

Speaker 5 (01:22:13):
And you know, I mean, this wasn't the question. But
you know, when I was in law school, James, I
was at you know, I was at the University of
South Carolina. And this was back when w CW used
to come to the to the Township Auditorium which is
the UH which is the small auditorium there in Columbia.
They you know, and so I mean, ye know that
that was a fun place to watch wrestling, even though
it was w CW wrestling during the nineties. So if

(01:22:34):
I went and looked up the history of w W
east Side, and you know, I think maybe if we
were gonna go see a show in Columbia, I'd take
the January fourth, nineteen eighty three show, which featured Tommy
Gilbert versus Gene Anderson, Disney Hogan versus Mike Davis, and
I think you know you know who Disney Hogan is.

Speaker 2 (01:22:53):
I was gonna say, uh, well, the will of Hogan's
nephew Boulder.

Speaker 5 (01:22:59):
Was that, Well, you know, it's night can any thing
Disney Hogan would be brutus beefcake.

Speaker 2 (01:23:05):
I was gonna say you that. I was gonna say
it was like the nephew of Bullet or the nephew
of Hogan, like his dad or something like that. That
was what I was gonna say, was that, But I
was just playing with it.

Speaker 5 (01:23:16):
Also on the show Bruiser Brodie versus Cowboy Bob Morton,
Nice Joe la Duke versus that Duel the Butcher, and
the main event of Ricky Steamboat and Jay young Blood
versus Sergeant Snott Slutter and Don Kernodle. So that's a
that yeah, that's I mean for yeah, the nineteen eighty

(01:23:36):
three that's you know, it doesn't get a lot better
than that, all right. The second question, if you could
book any match with any wrestlers, what would it be, wrestlers,
stipulation's location and why, Well, if I'm booking the match,
I would figure it would be for my promotion, so
I'd be trying to make money off of it.

Speaker 13 (01:23:53):
Does that sound James?

Speaker 2 (01:23:55):
That would be the That would be the the Lagow answer.
But obviously we're not looking for a logical answer because
it's Russ No.

Speaker 5 (01:24:03):
So well, I'm gonna give him a logical answer. I
think it would be John Cena versus the Undertaker, and
I would do it in the rich Richmond Coliseum here
in Richmond, so they wouldn't have to drive very far.

Speaker 2 (01:24:15):
I would take two thousand and five too with Joe
and match him up with Uh, let's see, what was
one of the Undertaker's best years?

Speaker 5 (01:24:27):
Ah, jeez, well probably you know, actually for most of
the nineties he was doing he was he wasn't you know.
He was concentering to be a character, not so much
a wrestler. So right, yeah, that makes a tough bumb
I mean, might even be nineteen ninety eight, or nineteen
ninety for that matter, before it became the Undertaker.

Speaker 2 (01:24:45):
Right, Well, let's say let's say ninety eight Taker versus
Oh four Joe or oh four Joe against U ninety
seven Austin.

Speaker 5 (01:24:56):
Yeah, that would have been good. Both of them would
have been good.

Speaker 2 (01:25:00):
Uh So those are my that's if I were to
take from different areas, if I if I had to
stick in this era, uh, then I would say, gosh,
there are a major there's not only a major breakout
star out there right now. Gosh, I don't know. I
don't know who I would sort of fantasy matchup in

(01:25:21):
this era. I'm just gonna stick with oh four oh
four O four O five Joe and in nineties taker Austin.
So there you go.

Speaker 5 (01:25:28):
Okay, I don't work all we had that. Then that's
that for this week.

Speaker 2 (01:25:33):
There you go.

Speaker 5 (01:25:34):
Good, uh As always send send your questions. I'll put
your questions in the Pat McNeil zone and the uh
the listener mail thread and we'll pick them up again
next week.

Speaker 2 (01:25:45):
Very good. Be sure to drop that in very torts.
Obviously you listen to this if you're a torch vat man.
If you're listening to this, you're not a torch v
I T member, then I don't know what what syth
pirate did it? Please let us know. But yeah, great
discussion today, Pat and uh White events, got it a
lot coming up this weekend, so think for recapping that,
and I guess we're from you next week next Wednesday

(01:26:07):
in the life.

Speaker 5 (01:26:08):
Yeah, well, well I would waves down and do another
WrestleMania's roundtable, so hopefully we'll get that done this weekend.

Speaker 2 (01:26:13):
There you go, we're almost wrestling at thirteen, so you'll
you're almost gonna discuss everything plus Austin and Hart.

Speaker 5 (01:26:21):
Well you know, we're we were up to WrestleMania eleven.
I actually sat down a couple of weeks ago and
started watching WrestleMania eleven. Yeah it's yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:26:30):
It's not pretty, it's rough. Yeah, I mean, would you
said it's probably the worst one of all the WrestleManias?

Speaker 5 (01:26:37):
Are there over some Well thirteen was pretty bad, and
WrestleMania nine was pretty bad, and that's true. WrestleMania two
wasn't that good. But yeah, I mean, yeah, it's uh,
it's it's lackluster. I mean, if it if it hadn't
been for Lawrence Taylor and for Shawn Michaels, that would
be it would be one of the worst.

Speaker 2 (01:26:55):
Yeah, all right, Pat, good discussion. As always, everyone, check
out next week live cast and also the I mean
we just we just redid the s Toorks VIP section
for the Wrestlmania round tables that is available and organized
in a nice clean cut page. You can download all
those audio updates with Wade Keller, Bruce Mitchell and Pat.

(01:27:16):
So Thanksga Pat for joining me today. For patman Neil,
this is Coorts assistant editor James Caldwell signing off.

Speaker 24 (01:27:28):
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Oh right.

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Speaker 2 (01:28:47):
You are listening to the PW Torch Live Cast. This
is PW Torch Assistant editor James Caldwell posting today on
Thursday July twenty second twenty seconds? Is that right?

Speaker 6 (01:29:00):
What do you tink you bet? Twenty second today?

Speaker 2 (01:29:02):
All right, there you go, and I'm joined by tors Nostalagic.
Colmis Bryant? Who is Brian? How are you doing today?

Speaker 20 (01:29:08):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (01:29:08):
Doing good?

Speaker 5 (01:29:09):
Glad?

Speaker 6 (01:29:09):
We got our technical problems solved there and you're getting
together and talk today.

Speaker 2 (01:29:15):
Yeah, definitely a lot of stuff going on the news,
even in the last about the last hour or so,
uh with Sewn Michaels. It's sort of an interesting topic.
They came up today. The Rustling's Ever reported yesterday that
you know, Michaels was sort of a guy that wn
B didn't want a feature on on their program neither
for whatever reasons for mat Manon being upset with him

(01:29:38):
retiring and being upset with the Brian Dangelson situation. And
then uh W announces that they're gonna have the rustle
mainga twenty six special in nbc U featuring Michaels his
retirement match against the Undertaker from Rustlemania this year, and
then they created an alumni page for Michaels. They mentioned
Michaels on their their Twitter page in the last hour

(01:29:59):
or so. So, so a lot of really interesting mixed
signals regarding Sean Michael if he continues to see a
story even though he's trying to distance himself from from wrestling. Uh,
why what's your take on this situation? And the enhouncement
of another Bussalmania special in NBC believe sometime in August.
The first week of August before I guess the second

(01:30:20):
weekend in August before SummerSlam. What's your take in that situation.

Speaker 6 (01:30:25):
Yeah, I think the date is August the seventh Saturday Night.
And when I first read it, my first reaction was,
you know, kind of a sad nostalgia feeling for you know,
Saturday Nights NBC specials used to meet the old Saturday
night main event program on NBC, and you know, fans
of the eighties will remember that as you know that

(01:30:45):
that was a night where you could look forward to
big name stars or wrestling big name stars, because back
in that timeframe you didn't see that on the Superstars
show or the Primetime show that very often. You saw
more of the low or mid card wrestlers or slat
squash matches. So it was kind of a treat to
sea those Erry Night made event cards. And that was
my first thought was, you know, learning back, yearning back

(01:31:08):
to those days of the nostalgic period. But I certainly
think there's some strange things going on with the with
the Shawn Michaels and everything that you described. There's there's
probably more to this than what we really understand. You know,
a lot of times there they'll feature a wrestler, news
will come out about him later on. But it tells
me that they're they're either trying to lure him back,

(01:31:30):
uh and trying to entice him with this and giving
him a nice sendoff or something something's going on here.
I think as far as with Shawn Michaels and in
WW planning for some sort of return for him, right.

Speaker 2 (01:31:43):
Even if it's just to be part of an angle,
and even if it's you know, so Brett Hartrett Hart's
been off and on the last you know, since Russell
Manni has been off and on of the last three
or four months. He's only been featured in a couple episodes.
He had a big send off in Toronto, he came
back on Monday. He's got the Brain, a US title program.
So in the raw, GM did the last a couple

(01:32:04):
of weeks. So, I mean, there's always that precedent that
you know, someone can be could return to TV and
in a minor role where you know, Michaels wouldn't have
to be on the road, uh for an extended period
of time. But I mean, every indication that I've heard
is that he doesn't want anything to do with w
toe or returning to rustling at all. He doesn't want
to dip his toe back in the water, so to speak.
So it's very fascinating to see Michael is suddenly a

(01:32:26):
big part of the news today. Uh you know, there's
the old you know, where there's smoke, there's fire. But
it's so odd because it seems like he legitimately is
gone from wrestling, and Praps is just w B trying
to hype uh, you know, the WrestleMania special NBC in
hopes of perhaps getting more NBC specials down the line.

(01:32:46):
They haven't had a Sunday Night special and probably you know,
other than they had the Rustleman and replay last year
in the Tribute to the Troops, they really haven't had
a Saturday Night's main event in a couple of years.

Speaker 6 (01:32:57):
Another one I think, I think they've had a contrack
with the NBC to do two specials per year over
the last couple of years, and obviously one of those
has been Tribute to the Troops, like you mentioned, and
they did a Saturday Night's main event a couple of
years ago that was kind of a bomb. And as
far as reading wise, and I think they've gone away
from that and more towards these WrestleMania specials that would

(01:33:19):
hopefully do a little bit better in the ratings, right,
And I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:33:23):
I mean, i'd have to look at my chart of
whether they have succeeded. But I think the thing about
those Saturday night specials is that they're really just not necessary.

Speaker 20 (01:33:31):
You already have so.

Speaker 2 (01:33:32):
Much programming that you give away on Raw and SmackDown
previously ECW when they did it special. So and then
obviously you have the pay per views, which are an
extension of what's you're already kind of given away on TV.
So it just didn't make sense to add that Saturday
night special. And there were some there are a couple
of really bad ones in there. I think there was
the one with Finley and Horne Swaggle during that time

(01:33:54):
when there was a whole you know, there was one
Swuaggle's daddy storyline. So the quality of the programs has
been good, the ratings haven't been good for those, and
you know, it's a way for WW to have those
Saturday night specials in prime time with not really eat
you know, you know, they're not really given away much
programming and there's not a whole lot of pressure to
deliver those new content in the ratings, the sort of

(01:34:16):
well people want to see a taste of Rustlemania, and
that's fine, here's an offering, but there's not a whole
lot of pressure to do well in the ratings. So
it's just very fascinating with Michael's in the news this week,
so we'll see, you know, it's the story to continue
to follow. And obviously it's his birthday, so that's gonna
be another reason why he might be in the news today. Yeah,

(01:34:36):
it's very fascinating. So that's we already have a couple
of emails on that from listeners, uh wanting to talk
about Michael. So if you want to jump in on
the phone lines and ask us more about Michaels to
talk about and give your theories, the number to call
is six four six seven two one nine eight two eight,
And of course we'll talk about TNA impact tonight on

(01:34:58):
Spike TV. If you follow up to the ECW invasion
angle on last week show, Superstars Tonight, SmackDown tomorrow with
the two got a three falls number one contender match,
and of course Summerslant that's a big topic of the news.
We'll get to that later today, or if you want
to talk about that on the phone mines again, you
can give us a call. Let's go ahead and jump
to our first phone call today. Let's go to the

(01:35:19):
four one five area code. Four one five. Welcome to
the show. Please stay to day where you're from. Yeah,
this is this Johnson Substances. Hey, Johnathan, what's going on? John?

Speaker 20 (01:35:30):
Oh?

Speaker 6 (01:35:30):
Much?

Speaker 2 (01:35:30):
That much?

Speaker 5 (01:35:31):
What's going on with you guys?

Speaker 7 (01:35:33):
Oh?

Speaker 6 (01:35:33):
No, a lot.

Speaker 10 (01:35:35):
But like last week on Friday, I asked you guys
about the whole NWA and why uh it wasn't like,
you know, it wasn't vestling out of you know, big
arena who was third back in the seventies and eighties.
Now I was wondering why nwh isn't relevant today. I
know they was a part of t and A launching

(01:35:56):
and stuff. But every time they get a part of
like a or organization or something like that, they tend
to like, you know, s advertise and the NWA goes
back to, you know, to the bingo halls and too
high school gyms and stuff like that.

Speaker 2 (01:36:09):
White.

Speaker 10 (01:36:10):
So my question is why isn't NWA, you know, so,
why aren't they relevant like the.

Speaker 2 (01:36:17):
Rest of the games. Yeah, but you want to think
that first.

Speaker 6 (01:36:20):
Yeah, you know, back in the day when the NWA
was relevant, they it was really a creation and started
nineteen forty eight of promoters about the twenty five or
thirty different promoters who ran the different territories to compete
exactly against what Vince mcman ended up doing in nineteen
eighty three, eighty four and eighty five, and that was
a national expansion where someone would come into the territory.

(01:36:43):
So you know, the NWA was created as kind of
a defense mechanism where one guy had control of a
territory or region. If if he was attacked or another
territory came in to compete, talent would be sent over
and you know, to put the other person out of business.
And by mid to early eighties it was a real
splinter group. They had really lost power and that was

(01:37:06):
because of you know, Rick Flair at that time was
the national touring champion. It was so hard to get
dates on Rick Flair because it was so busy traveling
that a lot of these promotions had their own champion
and would you know, book him on top rather than
wait for once or twice a year when Rick Flair
would come in so that they could draw bigger houses
and have that prestige. And you saw that in World

(01:37:29):
Class where eventually World Class elevated their own champion, who
ended up being Rick Rude, the first one ahead of
the NWA when they pulled out of the NWA And
since that time, the NWA has really been a splinter group.
And back in the early nineties when WCW was using
the name of NWA and then they ended up just

(01:37:49):
using their own name so that they didn't have to
give dates on their champion Rick Flair at the time
to other promoters, because under NWA rules, if you had
a touring champion like the NWA champion, all promoters had
equal access to an in world championship. Resident at the
time did not want to do that, so they just
went with their own name and disbanded the nw A name.

(01:38:12):
T and A basically used the TNA the nw A
name as a way to give themselves a little bit
of credibility when they started. And then after they felt
they had established the TNA name uh and and really
the nw A name became less of importance. They went
away from that as well. And you know, today NWA

(01:38:34):
promotion is still trying to be relevant. There's still some
splinter groups. You know, in the area where I live,
there's a promotion and in most states there's at least
one promotion that has that state, you know, that's Missouri
and Missouri NWA Champion. And so it's a very small group,
very fragile yet and just doesn't have a lot of

(01:38:55):
relevance because there isn't a you know, a territorial system
person say anymore. There isn't a touring champion like there
was in the past. And you know, unfortunately, we're just
more of a national wrestling companies in TNA and WWE,
and you know, there's just really not a business model

(01:39:16):
for the NWA to succeed in this day and age.

Speaker 2 (01:39:19):
Yeah, I think the you know, for the current era
we're in in twenty ten, it's all about that national
TV thing. It's they don't have a national TV presence.
They have you know, various and their syndicated TV on
small channels around the country, and there's the it's just
you know, it's a question of very small promotions. So

(01:39:40):
you know, they don't like to use the word independent promotions,
but there's small promotions around the country and they just
they don't add up to a strong national promotion. They
don't have a national TV time slot. You know that
they tour, they are historically, I guess in the last
five years, they've toured some larger venues and I've covered
some of their shows where they drawn four or five
thousand people. But it just doesn't have that notoriety. It's

(01:40:02):
caught that national TV exposure do to b and TNA
pretty much dominate the marketplace. Ring of Honor has more
of a grass roots following, if you will, on the internet.
WA it's just sort of viewed as you know, it's
an older group of promotions and they kind of run
an older style of wrestling that doesn't seem cutting edge.
I still think there's a place for it, it just

(01:40:24):
doesn't have the exposure. So I don't know if i'd
say it's irrelevant because they run in so many different
areas of the country and they kind of touch almost
like you said, Brian, they touch almost every state in
the country. So you're gonna run into that WA name
if you're looking for wrestling on a smaller level, but
just nationally age. It just doesn't have that exposure, so
they don't have that spot where they can say, this

(01:40:46):
is our flagship show, this is what we're all about.
And they just don't have as many stars. I mean,
they don't have the star power. I mean, Adam Pierce
is a good champion to have, kind of an old
school guy. They have Brian Danielson facing Pierce to the
WA Legends Fan Best next month, but they just don't
have those recognizable stars other than really Pierced and maybe
a Trevor Murdoch and you know, Sean Waltman will tour

(01:41:08):
with them, but they just don't They don't have the stars,
they don't have the national recognition. I mean, that's just
sort of where they are right now, and I guess
it feeling like that. I think they's kind of like
just touring on a smaller scale, not being a TNA
or WW and I think they're fine with that at
least that's how it's presented to me. So, Jonathan, you
ever another question or follow up?

Speaker 10 (01:41:31):
Yeah, how much can a NDE star actually make on
the just touring and just doing from here to Japan
and all the.

Speaker 2 (01:41:40):
And all that type of stuff.

Speaker 10 (01:41:41):
Because I heard that they'll like you could literally make
sweet bucks, like and you travel like fifty miles too,
you know, and that's not even enough to pay your
gas money and stuff like that. So if you guys
can play that.

Speaker 2 (01:41:53):
Up, sure, I mean, Brian, there's it's it really comes
down to how much experience you have, how much notoriety
you have, or how much are you willing to do
in terms of paying your way to a show. Talk
a little bit about what Jonath was asking about how
much money realistically, let's just say a mid level to
upper level independent wrestler can make in a year.

Speaker 6 (01:42:15):
It really varies depending on your name, your notoriety. You know,
a guy like Brian Danielson coming off of WWTV, he
had a pretty hot name, and for the next couple
of years he should be able to command pretty good
money on an indie circuit. You know, of course you're
paying for your own travel transportation, but you know, you
could look thousand dollars a night in some cases, and

(01:42:37):
in some places maybe more. Japan used to be a
great place for independent wrestlers to go. You know, back
in the eighties, Bruiser, Brody, Stan Hands and made great money,
much more than they were making the United States. Working
in Japan and they'd run you know, eight to sixteen
week type travel schedules and then come back home for
a while and wrestle here in the United States. But

(01:42:59):
most of them he was made overseas.

Speaker 2 (01:43:01):
You know.

Speaker 6 (01:43:02):
Now, you know, if you work, if you have a
big name, you know, maybe one thousand, maybe two thousand
for for select guys. You know, I've heard some promoters
have told me some of the TNA guys are getting
anywhere from two hundred up to six hundred plus transportation
paid when they want to come to their show. So
you know, those would be a bigger name on some

(01:43:23):
independence shows if you are in TNA. But again, you
have that TV and that visibility, and then you have
some of the lower independents that aren't on TV, don't
have a big name, and they're wrestling, you know, for experience,
for gas, money, and and just for the love of
the business.

Speaker 1 (01:43:39):
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Speaker 2 (01:44:12):
Right and you know, it's a good gig if you
can get something like you know, Chris Hero and Claudio Cascunoli,
who are feature ads the Ring of Honor. They get
a lot of independent bookings in the US, and they
also have a really good deal in Japan. They're always
on tour in Japan. David Richards is in tour in
Japan quite often. So if you get that combination of
some some good exposure on the independence to where, well,

(01:44:35):
you know, let's say a local promoter in some state
wants to bring in a Hero or a Claudia or
a David Richards, they're gonna be able to command a
pretty good a pretty good uh you know, an asking price.
Plus they have the Japan booking, so you know, and
you're kind of allowed to sort of call your own
shots more so than if you're working for w W ORTNA.
So there's that, you know, you're kind of trading off

(01:44:55):
the bigger bugs for more independence, true independent contractor status.
So you know, if you're in that, if you're in
that level of a Hero or Claudio or David Richards,
you're making decent money. I mean, you're making pretty good money.
And it's not the level of a w W top
star anywhere close to that, but it's good money. So
it's kind of a trade off of what's what's important

(01:45:17):
to you. So although yeah, you're you're you're bombing gas
and you're getting paid fifty bucks a shot, if you're
just kind of starting off and that's just the nature
of how it starts off.

Speaker 6 (01:45:27):
You know, some of the wrestlers that are on TV
also are able to sell some of their gimmicks, their
photos or or different memorabilia items at these shows and
actually make more money doing that than what they get
paid for wrestling. Uh and you know, so some guys
will do it just for that. You know, they can
get their their gas money paid and break even. Then

(01:45:48):
if they can sell a few things on merchandise T
shirts or photos or whatever. Those are high markup items
for those guys, and that's you know, so if you,
if you do go out try and support them even
by doing that.

Speaker 2 (01:46:00):
Yeah, No, that's you bring up that that's a good
supplement to their income. It's I mean, you see any
independent show they got a merchandise table for a reason.
Good cal Johnson. We appreciate that you are listening to
the PW Torch Live cast. This is pn B Torch
Assistant editor James Caldwell joined by Torch Nostalgia columnist Brian Hoops.
Let's continue on and grab another phone call to the

(01:46:22):
two one five area code two one five. Welcome to
the show. Please stay traming where you're from.

Speaker 4 (01:46:28):
Kay, It's Eric in Philadelphia.

Speaker 2 (01:46:30):
Hey, Eric, let's go on.

Speaker 4 (01:46:32):
Not much.

Speaker 13 (01:46:34):
I actually had like two questions for you. The funk
tern was do you know everything that's in in detail
with the WW developmental contract?

Speaker 2 (01:46:44):
I don't. I haven't seen one in a long time,
so I'm not sure if they've changed. Brian, do you
know for the ins and outs of a of a
WW developmental contract?

Speaker 15 (01:46:53):
You know?

Speaker 6 (01:46:54):
I don't, probably, I know, probably listen you to change.
I've seen them before, but it's been a while. I
know they get a fairly minimal amount of money that
they're gonna make. I mean, I've heard some guys it's
less than you can make working at the Independence, since
we were just talking about that. But they're going there
for the experience and for the chance that they're gonna

(01:47:15):
be seen and they hopefully called up to the main
roster and that's where they hope to make their money.
But it's you know, it's really a minor league type
of salary. They're not making very much money. You know,
they're very restricted on what they can and can't do.

Speaker 2 (01:47:30):
Yeah, it's restrictive is a good word. It's sort of
it gives w control. I mean in the contracts are
written to give w W a lot of control. And
basically they're selling the talent on is you have an opportunity,
and the opportunity is you get great scouting opportunities in FCW,
you get your stuff videotape. I mean, Jim Ross is
there this week. You have Jim Ross coming down and

(01:47:52):
evaluates you, critique you. Dussi Rhodes is there, Norman Smiley,
so and then you get a chance for rats get
called up to the big leagues where you have an
opportunity more money. So it's I mean it's wade in
w's favor big time. I Mean, their contracts are just
that's just the way they're structured. Even uh it's for
the main roster guys. So it's it's minimal money, but

(01:48:14):
it's an opportunity. That's what they're selling you on, is
an opportunity. I mean, we saw in the news today
just this morning that Austin Creed former t and a
Rustler consequences, Creeds signed a developmental deal. I hope that
he succeeds. I think he's got a good look. I
think he has potentially's young hide like him, you know,
sort of work through developmental and get on TV. I

(01:48:34):
think he could contribute to ww's programming. So good question, Erica.
I think it's just sort of it structured more toward
in favor of WWE, and they're selling them on an
opportunity that's sort of the sales pitch. So did you
ever have a question or follow up?

Speaker 4 (01:48:51):
Yeah, just one more question.

Speaker 13 (01:48:52):
See how TNA like obviously doesn't care with complatantly ripping
off of their one night stand. What do you think
the chances are of them using the old ECW footage anyway,
because you know, just to draw reaction like even risk
being see, what do you think the chances are because
I can't imagine I'm just saying, all right, well, here

(01:49:13):
are these guys from back in you know, that time
for that place. But I can't imagine them doing that.
So what do you think the chances are of them
just totally disregarding the copyright?

Speaker 2 (01:49:24):
I mean, Brian, I don't I don't see them doing that.
I think it would already. I mean it's already has
already positioned. They look sort of copycatish, already doing an
ECW one night Stand Part three, if you want to
call it that. I don't see them using footage. And
what's your take on that?

Speaker 6 (01:49:40):
Yeah, I don't see it either. In fact, you and
I talked last Friday, James on the Light Cast about
kind of this issue. How how far would they be
willing to cross the line. I think this is stepping
over that line that they will not be willing to
go across. Especially you know when Shane Douglass, I think
it was in two thousand and five, he kind of
put together the same group of guys and did sort
of a hardcore homecoming I think he called it. You know,

(01:50:03):
if they I could see them working out a deal
with Douglas where they bring him in as well, and
in exchange for using some of his footage from that event,
and you know, you'll you'll get just as much effect
out of that video footage as what you would out
of anything owned by Vince McMahon, which you know is
probably gonna be fairly minimal. I don't think they're going
to take the chance, because you know that that just

(01:50:24):
be clearly a blatant use of illegal property. And uh,
you know, and I don't think they'll go I don't
I just don't think they'll go that far and trying
to skirt around this issue, right, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:50:37):
I think they already walk in that fine line. I
wouldn't anticipate them just you know, let's grab some YouTube
footage or someone who's got a VHS tape and there
in the library to bring the TV and they pop
it on, you know, they pop it on the show.
I don't, I don't see that happening. I think they
already pushing the battery real close, and it just it
just would of me. I mean, I just think it

(01:50:58):
would look cheap. It'll looks sort of like we're starting
to be rebellious when it comes across Petty. I mean,
w own's a copyright for Better or Worse, and they
had the east W brand for Better or Worse, so
you know they're already good enough sort of tapping into
that ECW marketing. I don't think they would go to
the video library. You know, that's just that' be my
answer to that. So Eric, good call, We appreciate that.

(01:51:21):
Let's go to another phone call. Let's go to the
five nine area code five O nine. Welcome to the show.
Please stay traming. Where're from? Hey, it's Jared and Kenel Washington.
Hey Jared, did it hear from you?

Speaker 19 (01:51:34):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:51:34):
Yeah. I kind of got two part questions. I think
they kind of relate to each other regarding Goldberg. Okay,
so if you all remember his last match or brock
Lessner and how the crowd was very much against both
men right match, And so I guess my two questions are,
how do you guys think crowd reactions can make or

(01:51:55):
break a match from it into toysroom dynamic? And I
guess part two regarding Goldberg is do you think if
he could have one more match with Tsumania. Who would
the opponent because I think he needs to win that
match and who could he face against that he could
go over, but still like not, I don't know, make
that opponent look bad. Chris Jericho comes to mind. Just
off the top of my head, Brian, I'll throw it

(01:52:16):
to you. I'll have some more thoughts later on. What
are your thoughts on Goldberg and that last match they
did have and who would be a good opponent for
him if you were to come back.

Speaker 6 (01:52:25):
Oh, you know, if I had to pick an ideal
upon it, I think it might be kind of fun
to have him against a guy like a Chris Jericho
because there was some history between those guys and you
could maybe beat in Jerichos. He's definitely young enough where
he could carry Goldberg here and need somebody to do
something like that. So, off the top of my head,
I think that would be one that would come back.

(01:52:48):
You're in a situation where it's tough. You know, McMahon
doesn't want these guys that are making a comeback for
one shot to go over any of the young up
and coming talent or stars. And you know, when we
had the Ricky Steamboat coming back at WrestleMania. He put
over Jericho, and you just don't see any of these
guys that are going to be around for one night

(01:53:10):
going over at Stars. And that's exactly the right philosophy
you have to have. So he can't have, you know,
had Goldbert going over Way Barrett or or somebody else
like that. So it's either going to have to be
an established star that he's not real happy with anyway
or doesn't seem much more upside, or a guy like
a Jericho where a loss isn't really gonna hurt him

(01:53:32):
because he's already established enough. So you know, your options
was somewhat limited unless you put him in some sort
of a tag match, which would make more sense anyway,
given this fact.

Speaker 2 (01:53:41):
That he's going to be in rainy shape by any means. Yeah,
I agree with that. And Jared, to answer your question
the first part of your question, you know, can a
crowd reaction make or break a match? Yeah, I mean
obviously the New York crowd I at wrestle Ah twenty
for Goldberg and in Lessner, it's they sort of became
the story of that match, and that match was I mean,

(01:54:03):
if you look at it, brock Letter or Bill Goldberg.
That should be an epic matchup of two big heavyweights.
You know, Goldberg with the history in a Western which
is just that sudden rise to start them. You know
Goldberg's history going back to WCW. But you know it
was more about the crowd. So yeah, the crowd can
a match like that. We see him in in Toronto.

(01:54:23):
It's where that they developed that bizarro I guess reputation
in the mid two thousands when they would you know,
cheer the heels and do the baby faces most of
the time. So and also of course legendary UCW crowds,
and then of course there's the crowds that just sit
quietly during matches, you know. I mean there was you
can go back to the Jeff Hardy and Matt Hardy match,

(01:54:44):
so pretty much the first time they had that big
singles match, breaking up the Hardy's and you know, the
way it was booked wasn't that strong. I can't remember
what year this was, but it sticks out of my
mind because that crowd was quiet, and there's a pay
per view match, a big singles match for the Hardies
and the crowd which is quiet for the whole match.
So yeah, a crowd can make or break or tell

(01:55:05):
a different story than the promoters trying to tell. Brian,
can you think of any other specific examples of a
crowd for being the defining story of a match, either
in that moment or just historically in how the match
is remembered.

Speaker 6 (01:55:19):
One of the biggest matches that jumps out to me,
James is in Toronto. Was it wrestling at seventeen Hulk? Yeah,
Logan and the Rock and what a crowd that was
just incredible the way they reacted to everything, and it
wasn't the planned reaction, but you know, both of those

(01:55:39):
guys have so much chrismo. They played it up to
the hill. So that's one that really stands out in
my mind as far as proud reactions. Another one need
to go back a little bit further. Summer Slam ninety
two Wimbley Stadium, great reactions for Brett Hart and for
Davy Boys Smith, especially when Smith won the Icy title
in the main event of maybe thousand people in his homeland.

Speaker 2 (01:56:02):
Yeah, those are two great examples as well. Definitely, Jared,
did you have another question or followed just fuck? Yeah?
The Hogan Rock one is the one that always comes
to my mind. That sure that made that match just
something epic. But another one I watched back recently that
I didn't expect was that Mickey James versus Trish Travis
when Mickey James won her first women's title, and that

(01:56:23):
crowd was just so into that women's match. I've never
seen it, and they were into the heel Mickey James.
I don't if you remember that one. I kind of
remember that one a little bit. I remember more of
the the Tris Lita match in Toronto, you know, sort
of Trisch's retirement match when they put the sharpshooter on
and now that crowd just exploded for that finish. That
that's sort of comes to my mind more. Brian, do

(01:56:45):
you remember that that Mickey Trisch match that that Jared
was talking about.

Speaker 6 (01:56:50):
I don't remember it that well. You know, Yeah, I'm sure,
I'm sure you're right that there was a hot crowd,
but I just cancelized on me think of that that
match that closely right now.

Speaker 2 (01:57:00):
Yeah, there's been too many, too many bad Devas matches
since then for a watch that way, you know, I'll
be honest, with too many, you know, two minutes and
three minute matches and run ins and and Santino involved
and that sort of thing, and we went to the
whole Santina era and that, Yeah, we don't need to
go there, but uh yeah, I wish I remember that, Jared,

(01:57:20):
but I don't. To be honest, though, well don't don't
go watch it if you want to have the devas
matches run completely for you now, because I thinks a
lot guys, thanks, yep.

Speaker 23 (01:57:41):
Are you a fan of AW looking to sit back,
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(01:58:03):
the PW torch Live Cast feed. Search pw torch in
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Speaker 2 (01:58:27):
If we've hit the top of the hours. You want
to give up the phone numbers going to join us
on the live cast. If you're listening to us live,
the number call is six four six, seven, two one, nine,
eight two eight. You can be fourth in line right
now for the last half hour of the show. And
let's go ahead and let's just grab you on the
phone call. Let's just keep going through and the number
that we're going to go to next is seven eighty six,

(01:58:48):
seven eighty six. Welcome to the show. Please stay, shamble
on your phone. Seven eighty six. You're on the air. Okay,
seven eighty six just wants to listen today. So let's
go to another call. Let's go to the three three
six area code. Three three six. Welcome to the show,
please stay. Can I know where you're from.

Speaker 26 (01:59:08):
Hi, my name is John from Greensboro, North Carolina.

Speaker 2 (01:59:11):
I'm sorry, I think that my name is John Good
good for us.

Speaker 5 (01:59:17):
Well, I've got a question.

Speaker 26 (01:59:18):
I grew up in Connecticut in the seventies and eighties,
so I was a big fan of Bob Ackland, and
I'm curious as to how you guys would compare him
to the other champions at that time. Harley raised Nick
Bob winkled, how does he compare with his work rate?
How did you compare in terms of drawing money?

Speaker 2 (01:59:36):
Sure, bye, go ahead with that, Oh good question.

Speaker 6 (01:59:41):
You know he compared him to those other two name
that you mentioned. His style was definitely built more on
amateur wrestling, you know, not that Harley racedon' or Nick
Brockley's will have good backgrounds, but you know, no one
was a good or as Backland as far as an
amateur wrestling champion. He added a little bit more amateur style.

(02:00:02):
A lot of people probably considered it a little bit boring,
but he was pretty good at making the comebacks. Now,
he worked a different style because Blackwinkle was a major
heel at the time. Race kind of worked both, but
it was perceived more as a heel as a touring
NDWA champion, you know. So so back when was working
more of a babyface style where he would be fed

(02:00:23):
some of the bigger and bigger guys in that Northeast
territory that would come through and and end up, you know,
putting Backland over. So they worked a little bit different style.
Hard to really say as far as drawing ability. You
know which guy was was better or more over, Uh,
you know, you look at I look at Blackwinkle from

(02:00:45):
the standpoint that during the seventies he really opened up
the e w A to more of a national type
territory instead of just the Upper Midwest. He he worked
a lot in in Saint Louis and Houston, and in
the South in Atlanta and a lot of other areas.
As AWA champion, given a lot of credibility. Of course,
Holly Race was the NWA Touring champion all across the nation,

(02:01:06):
and Backland really didn't get out of the Northeast that much.
He wrestled mainly the TRIE WF territories and so he
probably from that respect didn't have as much national recognition
as the other two. That would fall more to Backland
and Harley Race. But you know, or to Backwinkle and
Holly Race. But you know the I think if you

(02:01:28):
look back now twenty five years later, he's not widely
as well known or recognized as what Race and Backwinkle are.
He's kind of fallen out of the face of the
wrestling public, and part of that is due to his
own willingness. He's been offered numerous years to be inducted
into Waterloo Hall of Fame, he'd be a natural fit

(02:01:49):
for it, and he's declined every year. So he, by
his own his own admission and by his own instance,
he just does not want anything to do with the
professional in twenty five years after he's been a world champion, John,
did you have.

Speaker 2 (02:02:06):
A question or follow up?

Speaker 26 (02:02:07):
Well, yeah, I wanted to say that I think in
terms of promos that Backland wasn't have the conference that's
the other two and that may have a little bit
to do with how he's not as well remembered because
you can't even just see a short clip on YouTube
of him talking and having the same reaction as you
get from Backwinkle or Ray. So, but my follow up
question is, and then you can put me on hold,
is do you think Backlin could have worked in the

(02:02:29):
other territories? Could could he have adjusted his his style
such to be successful in the NWA or the AWA?

Speaker 2 (02:02:36):
And thank you for everything, great, great question, Brian, go ahead.

Speaker 6 (02:02:40):
He worked in Saint Louis quite a bit in the end,
that's an NWA territory, so you know he had a
lot of backing of.

Speaker 2 (02:02:49):
The NWA promoters.

Speaker 6 (02:02:50):
In fact, it with Sam Muschnake and Eddie Graham two
of his biggest backers, and those are certainly big n
w A type promoters in Florida and Saint Louis, so.

Speaker 2 (02:03:00):
They liked his work.

Speaker 6 (02:03:01):
You're absolutely right about his promos. He was not a
good promo guy and that that would have held him back,
especially in any WA where it was a very promo
heavy territory. NWA you had because you were touring to
different cities throughout the country, you had to cut really
good promos to build yourself up for when you arrived
in that city. You know, if you were coming to

(02:03:21):
San Francisco in two weeks, you had to cut a
promo that would air on San Francisco television three four
weeks before your arrival, building up you know, your match
when you got there, and that was definitely would have
been Backland's weak points and would have held him back
as nw A type touring champion. Same thing goes for
e w A. You know, nobody was probably better on

(02:03:42):
the mic than that time from than Backwinkle and and
Rick Flair, you know, did the same thing as Blackwinkle
did as far as building up matches ahead of his arrival,
So it would have definitely made back when less of
effective touring champion I think is as Race or quinkl was,
but wrestling whys he was right up there and definitely

(02:04:03):
had his supporters. As I mentioned, with much making Andy Graham.

Speaker 2 (02:04:09):
Good discussion here, Let's continue on to the sixty five
to one area code. Brian great and elpis on that
I appreciate that. Let's go sixty five to one. Welcome
to the show. Please stay shingle where you're from.

Speaker 12 (02:04:21):
Hey, James, this is Mike from Wobury, Minnesota. How you
doing today?

Speaker 2 (02:04:25):
Good Mike, how you doing good? Hear it from you?

Speaker 20 (02:04:27):
Great?

Speaker 12 (02:04:28):
So glad they'll ask. Colley talked about Bob Bavan because
whatever I think of him, I think of what a
big deal they made out of how he made a
comeback to the WWF at the age of forty two
and was a champion at the age of forty two,
and how ancient that was in the mid nineties and
now some of like triple ages that age.

Speaker 2 (02:04:47):
You know, it doesn't see insulation today.

Speaker 12 (02:04:49):
Yeah, yeah, unbelievable and in a fifteen year difference. It's
just kind of funny. But anyways, I mean, taking a
little bit more more about the Summer Slam card and
everything looking pretty good. But I can't help but think
that they kind of waited this opportunity and and if

(02:05:13):
they really wanted to make a big reveal on seated
Mystery team, and and Ben was a huge reveal, and
he's I think in a good position this match. But
if they really wanted to make a big reveal, if
they were going to bring back Daniel Bryant, why wouldn't
this have been the night to bring him back. I mean,
if he would have came out and surprised the crowd,

(02:05:34):
I mean, talk about a star of making moment for him.
It just seems if they were going to ever bring
him back, this would have been that you're.

Speaker 4 (02:05:43):
Going to do it?

Speaker 2 (02:05:44):
Yeah, you know, Mike, Well, it's good. I'm glad you
brought that up. It's you know, when they had the
setup there on Raw and you know, seeing them brought
in everybody else except for the last guy. The two guys,
the two names that came through my mind were Triple
Ah Brian Danielson as the big reveal for the last participant.
To me, I don't think they will with Danielson either,

(02:06:05):
you know, because they're not going to bring him back now,
or you know, perhaps they will down the line, or
they just didn't feel like that was a big enough
reveal that would have sort of said, Okay, this is
a big deal now and now we brought back Brian Danielson.
I think they would have been a really big deal
on the Internet and with a lot of you know,
a lot of this hardcore followers. But for that casual audience,

(02:06:26):
I'm not sure that would have really been as big
of the deal as here's you know, Brett Hart's music
hits and now comes Brett Hart in the flesh. So
I think that was perhaps why they chose to go
with Heart instead of drops going with Danielson in that slot. Brian,
what's your take on whether Danielson should have been in
that slot? And do you think he will be reinvolved

(02:06:47):
in this in the storyline, either before Summer Slam or
after Summer Slam.

Speaker 6 (02:06:53):
You know, it's possible. I think he could also be
involved as the general manager, you know, as as an
outside shot. It at that that that's the possibility. I
think too that we don't want to forget that fromhow
he gains control of Raw and is the anonymous GM
revealed later on. I don't think they know who's they're
going with at this point. That that's you know, so

(02:07:14):
that's just speculation. You know, at some point, I think
the time will be right to bring Danielson back.

Speaker 5 (02:07:19):
They may want to let things.

Speaker 6 (02:07:21):
Quiet down a little bit, or even wait until after
the election if that's still a major pressing concern, because
you know, there are some wn the McMahon's opponents are
coming out and talking about her pro wrestling guys, they
may want to.

Speaker 2 (02:07:34):
Just keep the distance from that. So really, I think it.

Speaker 6 (02:07:38):
Depends on some of those outside influences, the influence on
the campaign for one of them, and where they decide
to go with that raw General manager.

Speaker 2 (02:07:49):
Mike, did you have another question to follow up?

Speaker 12 (02:07:53):
Yeah, I don't disagree with you about the pop that
he would get compared to a Brett Hartt. But other
than that show, they very much set up, and rightfully so,
Debasi and Morrison and and miss in our Truth for
matches at SummerSlam. Now, we might get TV fewed out
of it the next few weeks, and I'm all four
of that, but they did set up that, so I'm

(02:08:16):
not so sure that that Seena's team is worse off
if they have Seena Collie, Brett Hart, the Heart Dynasty
or Brian Danielson, Agan Jeried Color or no Collie or
no Heart Time security out that way and still didn't
need Morrison Er Truth on the team.

Speaker 6 (02:08:36):
I don't know.

Speaker 12 (02:08:37):
I think you could have if the pop stake could
have built slowly from Dan Jericho to Brian Daniel, Daniel
Bryant whatever to to Brett Hart, but I mean it's
splitting his I think that the team see has got
is fine. I think that's gonna draw, especially with the
Kitty audience. But it just seemed to me they built

(02:08:59):
up very solid undercos matches for Summers Time earlier in
the show, but more than at dBase and and mas
it Our Truth, and now I don't know where they
go from there. I don't know why Our Truth would
have just came out and stop men from cashing it
in like that without getting a knight all out of it,
or why Dbac and Mulletson would scuffle, But I don't know.

(02:09:20):
Maybe he'll still have something to do as the match
and yeah, Mundane'll maybe I'll be back in the company.
I just thinking out loud on maybe it could have
been a wasted opportunity. But that's why I got for
you guys today and be getting on hold hold. I
would appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (02:09:33):
Sure, we appreciate the call, Mike, And yeah, I would
have gone for the double reveal of Danielson and Hart
instead of Colle So I would have taken that, uh
for sure, rather than that. I just don't understand why
is Colley in that team unless it's part of once
They're gonna amazingly logically tie together two storelines of reng
and seeing one in Collee to be a more aggressive

(02:09:55):
wrestler and not some comedy wrestler. And that's why because
he you know this has been arranging his team for
a while and this is part of it. I meant,
perhaps are so logical threat in there somewhere, But yeah,
I would have gone with the double pop Danielson and
then Heart and that sort of plat in there, having
Danielson and plays colleague. Right, why do you think they

(02:10:16):
went with? I mean, Mike brings up some good points
on those other card matches they seem to be setting
up with Mizz and our truth, uh and then also
Morrison Debians and those are sort of out the window
now with our Truth and Morrison part of Team Sina.
Now it kind of leaves Miss without a match for
Summer Slam, depending on how that money in the bank
situation plays out the next couple of weeks. And also

(02:10:38):
Debiancey doesn't have a match now, So, uh, why do
you think they went to that route? And what do
you think they're gonna do with those two guys.

Speaker 6 (02:10:45):
Well, you know, they can always go back and change
their minds and and and rebook things here to figure
things up. They may, you know, instead of a seven
on seven, they may drop it to six on six
and free up you know Morrison too, uh to feud
with with deep Yasi or someone else that may just
end up taking him out of the match. And and
because seven and seven to a lot of guys to

(02:11:05):
be involved in the ring if you're gonna try and
get them all in there anyway during Summer slams, So
I could see where they do a little bit of
a swerve booking or rebooking of some guys in their
in their positions. Otherwise I think you'll, you'll definitely you
got to keep the momentum going here for Miss. He
needs a match, especially at SummerSlam. He's got some ties
to Hollywood through his reality showed that he was on

(02:11:27):
and so he definitely got to keep his momentum going.
He needs to win at the Summer Slam on a
pretty big stage.

Speaker 2 (02:11:37):
Before before we move on to another color. Brian, I
wanted the produce a question from a listener who emailed
a question kind of ties in with the Bob Backman question,
but in a sort of very random way. Uh. You
wanted to ask, why do you think that there are
so many wrestlers who have the BB initials? And he
listed Verdus Bescape, there's a road you've Brooklyn Brawler, Big

(02:12:01):
boss Man, Bubba Brazil, British Full Dog, ban Bam, Bigelow,
bunk House, buck head back on this. What do you
think that is?

Speaker 6 (02:12:09):
I had no idea, never noticed before. I never thought
of it.

Speaker 2 (02:12:14):
Yeah, he said that he's he's a listener from Poland
and his English is not his native language. So you
want to know if it's a cultural thing or coincidence,
and I don't know. To me, you know, it's sort
of an alliteration is I mean a lot of wrestlers
had that sort of alliteration to where it kind of
rolls off the tongue and it's marketing. It's more marketable
than you know, John Smith, So they come up with

(02:12:35):
something that's more marketable. That would be my answer. I
don't have any other explanation, but it's sort of interesting
questions since we talked about back then today.

Speaker 6 (02:12:43):
Yeah, that's interesting. I don't have it. I don't have
a better explanation what you gave.

Speaker 2 (02:12:48):
Yeah, we're just talking up the coincidence a literation of marketing.
So there you go. Uh, let's continue on. Let's grab
anut of a phone call from the nine to five
to two area code, too. Welcome to the show, Please
stay draining. Where you're from? Hey, isn't he robbed from Egan, Minnesota?

Speaker 4 (02:13:06):
How you doing good?

Speaker 14 (02:13:07):
Rod?

Speaker 2 (02:13:07):
How are you doing good? Man? Thank you.

Speaker 20 (02:13:11):
I had a question about Christian Now. I got excited
when he got transferred over to SmackDown after the draft
because it's the wrestling show and he's a whizz in
the ring, and he's consistently putting on good matches, and
I had delusions. I was hoping he was going to
get put into the title picture, not necessarily win the title,
but at least be in the picture. And he just

(02:13:32):
keeps losing in mid card matches. Do you guys think
that he's ever going to get that chance or do
you think that he's just kind of doomed to be
in the mid card there for a while.

Speaker 1 (02:13:47):
You don't have to wait for the weight Keller Pro
Wrestling post show to find out what I thought of
Monday Night Raw and SmackDown. Each week, you can check
out my reports that are updated live throughout Raw and
SmackDown at pwtorch dot com. Written report will tell you
what's happening in detail in case you missed the show,
and it will also analyze key segments and give my
random thoughts quips on what I am watching as it airs.

(02:14:10):
So check it out every Monday night and Tuesday night
at pewtorch dot com. That also applies to WWE pay perviews.
I cover those live at pw torch dot com with
a detailed written report with star ratings, and of course
you can find other TV reports from other contributors to
pw torch such as nxt roh, Impact Wrestling, and more.
Check it out pw torch dot com your first stop

(02:14:32):
for TV and pay per view written reports.

Speaker 6 (02:14:44):
N witter go ahead, right, you know, I think that's
how nickmahon sees him at this point. Is just kind
of a mid card level guy. He doesn't have the
look of a main event guy. Even though majority of
people think he has the talent, speaking ability, ring ability
to be a main event guy. He's never really been
given the chance to run with it, and until McMahon

(02:15:05):
sees him differently, he's always gonna be in that slot.
Right now, it looks like his role is to, you know,
have some decent matches, but mostly work with younger guys
who are who they're trying to groom it and developed
worked at some of the house shows, some of the
TV matches and put those guys over.

Speaker 2 (02:15:23):
And I also see, you know, and Rob, I'm gonna
throw this theory out there that perhaps they're gonna set
up a heel turn for Christian and that you know,
you know, sort of the deal they're going Matt Hardy
right now and perhaps turn Christian heel. They've planted seeds
for that where he can do a couple of promos saying,
you know, I've always been looked over and passed over,
and and the fans sort of liked Hardy more than

(02:15:44):
I did like all these other people more than I did.
I've done everything I've been asked to do and it's
not enough, et cetera, et cetera. So there's potential for
that to be a potential away from the breakout and
to be involved in some some upper tier matchups and
not be you know, tag teaming with with m VP
or sort of having debates with Matt Harvey and sort

(02:16:05):
of being stuck in that mid card. So I had
just been heel turned, I wouldn't say soon.

Speaker 20 (02:16:12):
But I would say they've been planting that seed.

Speaker 2 (02:16:14):
Yeah, yeah, no, go ahead, And did general looks like
that ahead?

Speaker 20 (02:16:20):
Okay, yeah, it totally looks like they've been going that
way in the past few weeks. You know, you can
see those subtle heel tendencies going in him, like when
he walked out of the match like that, And uh,
I would I like, I prefer Christian as a heel,
so I would like for him to go heel.

Speaker 2 (02:16:33):
That would be great.

Speaker 20 (02:16:35):
I guess my second part of the question would be,
you think they'll ever give us the chance to completely
mark out and put edging Christian together or is that
something that's just going to be lingering in us in
our minds, and Evince is just never going to give
us that.

Speaker 2 (02:16:50):
Uh, you know, I see it lingering for a while,
and it might come down to, you know, what, what
did Edge want to do in the last couple of
years of his career, and he's talked about he wants
to be around maybe two or three more years, and
does he want to have perhaps one last edgend Christian reunion,
you know, let's say two years from now, and then
they'd been suddenly hinting at it since Christian came back

(02:17:13):
to w B from TNA. They haven't really gone all
out with anything Edgend Christian related. But let's say Christian
does turn heel and he becomes a pretty hot heel
on SmackDown. I wouldn't be surprised to see perhaps the
final year of Edge's career being a He'll run with
Edgend Christian and they kind of started off his heels
and it would take it full circle and perhaps they

(02:17:34):
can find a way to make it more fresh and they're,
you know, a decade later in the later stages of
their career. Bryan, what are the of the prospects of
an edgend Christian reunion either soon or eventually down the line.

Speaker 7 (02:17:47):
You know.

Speaker 6 (02:17:47):
I think that's one thing that everybody would love to
see is a heel formation of edging Christian again, you know, reuniting.
And I could certainly see it happening at some point
down the road. They're probably a little bit short on
the on the babyface side of things on smack dumb
right now. So when they, you know, get some guys
that are healed up, I could see them, you know,

(02:18:07):
bring in those two guys on the same brand and
at some point, uh, you know, reuniting informing that TAY team.
And I think that's, like I said, everybody would love
to see that happen.

Speaker 2 (02:18:19):
We've to give a little question or follow up.

Speaker 6 (02:18:22):
No, that's all I got.

Speaker 8 (02:18:23):
Thank you very much, and I appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (02:18:26):
Sure, great, great call. We appreciate that contribution. We want
to go out and give out some plugs as we
wait for some more callers to call in. If you
want to jump in, no one is on hold, so
you can get in the last ten minutes or so
in the show at six, four, six, nine, eight to eight.
If you're not a Torch v IP member. We have
a ton of audio content this week going back to

(02:18:48):
this past week and we had eight audio updates this
past weekend. We've got about eight more since this week,
including the post Money in the Bank audio roundtable. Brian,
you have your nostalgia audio uh with George Shire this week,
and of course the Torch Newsletter is available. We had
the exclusive from Jason Pals on the main event for
the TNA Hard Justice or whatever it is going to

(02:19:10):
be called pay per view next month or TNA or
ECW's Team pay per view. So that exclusive information plus
a lot more exclusives on the pay per view are
available for towards VIP members in the VIP section this week.
If you're not a Torch VIP member, you can find
out more info at PW torchs dot com slash go
vip by what's going plut a little bit of your

(02:19:33):
podcast this week and some of the news and notes
you have in this week's Torch Newsletter.

Speaker 6 (02:19:39):
Oh, George and I talked a lot about different interview styles.
We talked about John Cena and we went back and
talked about how important interviews used to be in the
territorial system, why they were important. So did some of
the better interviews you know, and what made those interviews successful,
and then you know, it's just such a change from

(02:19:59):
what we see nowadays to why we had the territories
and what importance those interviews were. Like I talked about
when we were talking about Bob, back when it was
so important for the NWA Touring Champions to be able
to cut a good promo in a good interview, to
get fans to sell those tickets to come to the
matches to see him wrestle against their local champion.

Speaker 2 (02:20:21):
Of their local hero.

Speaker 6 (02:20:22):
And you know, we had a good talk about that.
We also revisited nineteen sixty one and the last three
months of the year, talked about some title changes and
some happenings going on in the Minneapolis territory. George had
written a really good book about the Minneapolis area and
the territory up there, and we're reliving that year by

(02:20:44):
year and month by monch and match by match of
each individual match that happened in nineteen sixty one. So
a lot of fun to look back and talk about that.

Speaker 2 (02:20:54):
Yeah, you guys have got a great series to go
all of that, and that's something that towards BF members
can jump in and kind of start with the beginning
of your series and continue to fall along with it
and grab those those pasts nostalgia podcasts and catch up
to the newer ones and a really great series. So
I'd definitely recommend that if you're towards the VIP member,

(02:21:14):
and if you're not, it'sign enough to get access to
that very fascinating and walk through a very historical era
in pro wrestling. So check that out. Let's go back
to the phone lines. Let's try the seven eight to
sixth number again. Seven and six. You're on the air.
Let us know what your name is and where you're from.
Hey James, Robert from miamis Hey Robert, what's going on?

Speaker 6 (02:21:36):
Everything's cool?

Speaker 12 (02:21:38):
The question is Brian can probably something on this one too.

Speaker 2 (02:21:41):
Sure.

Speaker 21 (02:21:42):
Have you ever seen which federation with what porty run
at the end? Or or is TNA and WCW WCW
at the end and TNA right now?

Speaker 5 (02:21:54):
Brian?

Speaker 2 (02:21:55):
Yeah, Brian, I mean, I mean DNA is sort of
in that position to where I mean they've been getting
comparison to ww throughout their company history. Right now, they've
they've burned through a lot of talents and added a
lot of budget to their to their salary without really
yielding a return on that investment. Compare kind of compare

(02:22:16):
where ww was at the end of their run before
the company out of business, and where T and A
is right now and all their similarity.

Speaker 6 (02:22:24):
Yeah, you know, the biggest similarity between the two companies
is the same guys that were running WCW at the
end and booking the company are running TNA and booking
the company now. So I mean that's scary in and
of itself. One of the biggest differences is, you know,
TNA is bleeding money right now, and the fact that
they've signed some of these high priced, older talent is

(02:22:46):
very telling what happened in WCW near the end of
its existence. Although WCW had more than two hundred and
fifty guys under contract and lost sixty dollars in one year,
TNA is not approaching anywhere of those levels. But there's
certainly some similarities on a smaller scale. You know, TNA
has sixty wrestlers approximately under contract right now. If you

(02:23:09):
go back and look at some of these territories, they
would have anywhere from sixteen to twenty five wrestlers under
contract or under their booking offices. Contract at any one time,
and really that's the TNA. What they need to be
doing is getting those numbers down more twenty five to
thirty and limiting their numbers because they're not using the

(02:23:31):
guys they have effectively. And that's similar to what WCW
was doing at the end, is they had too many
guys under contract. The booking just made absolutely no sense
in most cases. Of course, television ratings were much higher
in WCW. Even at the end, they were still doing
around the two point zero rating, anywhere from one point

(02:23:52):
eight up into the mid twoes. And you know, CNA
at this point is in anywhere even close to those
type of ratings. So a lot of sim but I
think there certainly on a smaller scale, TNA is following
along the exact same path, which is why it's so
frustrating to people in the business that look at these
numbers and and can't figure out. I can't figure out anyway,

(02:24:12):
why Vince Russol still has a job, Why they're still
following the same path and choosing the same direction for
their product. Is what happened to w CW when they
went out of business. Why won't they take a chance
on going in a different direction, following a different business
model that at least was profitible at one time.

Speaker 2 (02:24:30):
Yeah, and TNA isn't on much smaller scales. That's that's
worth considering as well. And also TNA has the backing
of a corporation that I mean, they've proven that they
want to keep TNA around. They want to keep funding TNA.
You know, perhaps it's because they want to keep Dixie
Carter running a wrestling company and not part of you know,
actual pin and energy business. That's you know, sort of

(02:24:52):
the theory out there. You know, it will it won't
throw a time water pretty much. They didn't want w
c W. They didn't want that those laws on their books.
I think Pan of Energy is fine with continuing to
fund TNA. They've proven that they will fund this company
through some really bad times with some really bad decisions historically.
And you know, part of it is that I think

(02:25:14):
and to a certain extent, believes that TNA has potential
to become well, it's not a profitable company, but to
break even and continuing to give Dixie Carter a job
to do away from Pan of Energy, and that that
sort of seems to be the theme over the last
seven years this company has been around, so there's some similarity,
is there some major differences, especially the scale. The scale

(02:25:37):
is a big difference as well. That TNA doesn't have
that built in audience from you know, twenty fifty twenty
twenty five years of a historical time slot on TVs,
so they don't have that to have a built an audience.
That's a big difference.

Speaker 18 (02:25:52):
There.

Speaker 27 (02:25:58):
Longing for some astouni or maybe you want to learn
some wrestling history, don't miss the Nineties Past cast every
Friday on the PW Torch Daily Cast Feed. Alex and
Patrick will transport you thirty years into the past by
taking you through the Torch issue from that very week.
Follow news from the WWF and WCW and all the

(02:26:18):
happenings from across the wrestling industry in real time as
The Torch reported it thirty years ago. That's the nineties
Pass cast every Friday on the PW Torch Daily Cast Feed.

Speaker 6 (02:26:39):
A lot of people James would would say, you know,
Turn was comfortable with the losses. WCW was putting nothing
in the nineties, and he was because of the value
that they had on television. So he was willing to
ride with the losses and a big supporter. And he
always said, well he was in control. WCW or NWA
would be on TBS and it was for a long

(02:27:00):
time until the buyout. And you'll always have to wonder
if something will happen at Panda Energy or Bob Carter
decides to will the plug, how committed he'll be and uh,
you know, without their backing, without the Spike TV contract,
TNA is in real at financial trouble, right.

Speaker 2 (02:27:18):
Or if somebody like you said, somebody else comes into
Power and pand it and they take a look at
the books and they see, you know, this TNA project
gone here and it's you know, it's you know, do
we really want to keep funding this? Do we want
to keep this around? And if somebody else comes into
power who has a different mindset than Bob Carter continuing
to fund it, then there could be a yes, it's

(02:27:40):
a it's a story to keep watching out for. Uh
as far as TNA's financial backing is concerned, Robert, did
you have any other question or follow up?

Speaker 21 (02:27:48):
Yeah, isn't a Spike funding some of those high price
contracts like for Hovan and the other ones that have
come in recently.

Speaker 2 (02:27:56):
Yeah, there's a there's sort of the joint contract and
there's also and I believe they have some interest in
some of the contracts. Yeah, it's not all it's not
all on TNA with a lot of these contracts. That's
six second, you know, Brian, can you shed some more
light on sort of I guess Spike TV's where where
their hand is and sort of these big contracts that

(02:28:17):
then brought on, especially in the last two years or so.

Speaker 6 (02:28:20):
You know, I think that's another similarity going back to
the WCW question, is a lot of those contracts were
owned by Turner at the time. You know Stings was,
I think Rick Flair was as well, and that was
one of the things when they ended up buying out
the contracts, a lot of those guys didn't go because
they weren't owned by w CW contracts. They were owned
by a different conglomerate, whether it Beats TNT or Turner Broadcasting.

(02:28:45):
So you know, that's another thing is is Spike is
probably funding some of these guys, especially like the Hult Cogan,
Eric Bischoff come to mind. And you know, if we're
not producing the ratings and those guys aren't, aren't doing
what they're supposed to do and how long will we'll
SPIKEE continue to do that right.

Speaker 2 (02:29:03):
Towards v if a member of stick around for the
after show.

Speaker 7 (02:29:05):
Thanks for listening today, Thank you for using blog talk radio. Goodbye.

Speaker 2 (02:29:22):
All right, Brian, we're now in the VID after show
portion of today's live cast. Thanks for joining me on
the live cast today. What the did you have any
other funel thoughts on that teenage topic before we move
on to some other items in the news.

Speaker 6 (02:29:35):
You know, it's an interesting topic and I think it's
it's one that we should pursue a little bit more.
Maybe I'll do that in a in a column. But Neil,
certainly people who don't remember the history will be tend
to repeat itself. And that's exactly what's happening. Or I'm
fearing that's happening in DNA, a big big back or
we need to we need a second organization. But you know, Kyle,

(02:29:57):
they just keep making the same mistakes as what they
CWT made when they went out of business. You really
fear that eventually someone's gonna come in and pull the
plug in that organization.

Speaker 2 (02:30:07):
And it's too bad.

Speaker 6 (02:30:09):
They really need to move in a different direction and
find some different guys to run the company. You you
don't see skilling at who ran m run into the ground.
He doesn't have a job right now with General Motors
or anyone else, and so he just mind boggling that
bishopped and Russell ten twelve years later would be back

(02:30:31):
in power of another organization.

Speaker 2 (02:30:33):
And the problem is too, is that I think there's
just a limited number of sort of wrestling minds or
minds who have experienced in the wrestling business or on
the TV side, who are willing to be part of
the wrestling business. So it's almost like your pool of
executives or consultants is very small and very constricted basically

(02:30:54):
down to who has national TV experience, because the bigger
promotions just haven't had a willingness to look to like
like a Gabe Sapolski or somebody else who perhaps developed
in the ability to contribute to a wrestling organization not
through a national TV outlet, and and sort of on
on on a smaller scale, and just there isn't that
pool of resources there. You know. One of the things

(02:31:16):
about the Money Night War's era is that it's sort
of the those same guys who were involved in wrestling
then are pretty much looked on or pretty much given
more favorable opportunities to contribute to wrestling today. I mean Vincerusso,
Eric Bischoff, Paul Cogan, pretty much half of the TNA roster,
or guys who were in one of the big two

(02:31:36):
promotions during the Money Night War's era. Just wrestling hasn't
moved past that era. I mean, w has had more
success trying to create stars like John Tina and Randy
Orton and try to you know, push Raymiterio more than
he was in w CW. It's just, you know, it's
just sort of wrestling that still remains stuck to a

(02:31:59):
certain degree and nineties. We're seeing it with his with
his TNA pay per view next month, where it's an
easy w pay.

Speaker 6 (02:32:05):
Per view, you know, and so you know, and what
amazes me about it is, you know, one time they
had a guy who ran an organization who well eventually
went out of business that he ended up paying all
of his debtors back, and that was Jim Cornette. You know,
you look at at his track record. He ran a

(02:32:27):
regional territory, he worked for w CW, booked for WWE.
So he's done it all.

Speaker 5 (02:32:32):
It would have been a far better.

Speaker 6 (02:32:33):
Choice than than Russo. And essentially they chose russoll over
Cornett and and I just can't understand why they would
make that decision.

Speaker 2 (02:32:43):
Well, that goes for a lot of stuff in to
toa yeah, but let's talk about the Summer Sland car
to kind of shift gears a little bit. We'll go
ahead and talk about the spoiler for this Friday, which
is that Rain the Cereal will win the this sorry,
the two out of three falls with the old School
there match against Jack Swagger. It'll be Ray and Kane

(02:33:07):
for the world title at Summer Slam. Of course they
could add they could add Swagger, they could add Undertaker
to that mixed perps before Summer Slam. What's your take
on them not involvement Undertaker in that match right off
the bat? And where do you see him being involved
in Summer Slam if at all?

Speaker 6 (02:33:25):
Well, you wonder if he's going to be physically ready.
That's the first thing that came to my mind, if
maybe he was still injured and it didn't expect him that.
But I think they could go a couple different ways.
Either involve him just a week or two ahead of
Summer Slam, and when they're confident that he will be
coming back, put him then again in the main advertising

(02:33:46):
and start building up his return as part of the
three way. Or he makes a surprise appearance at the
Summer Slam event itself and in you know, attacks came
afterwards to build towards their match at September one. I
understand they do have a match built already for Kane
and Undertaker in September, but it you know, it's certainly

(02:34:06):
possible that they could do a three way before that,
and so there's a couple of different routes. I think
they could go, all dependent upon his health mainly.

Speaker 2 (02:34:16):
Yeah, I mean, it seemed like Undertaker Kine is a
match that they would want to put it SummerSlam, but
with only four weeks of you know, they only have
four weeks of TV time in between Running the Bank
and Summer Slam, so perhaps they didn't feel like they
could get as much They couldn't get as much juice
out of Undertaker Kine. When I mean they would have

(02:34:36):
to explain the storyline. It'll probably take a couple of
weeks to explain a storyline that would reveal that Kane
put Taker in a vegetative state, and by that time,
it's sort of like, Okay, well here's wrestling. I mean,
here's Summer Slam. We kind of need a match already.
So I kind of understand that, you know, the press
for time they want to go with Kine and Ray.
It's a matchup they could promote. It's sort of the

(02:34:58):
big Man little Man and sort of of plant seeds
for Kine as the heel, and then have Undertaker can
come back and set up a big match for the
September pay per view. It just it wouldn't feel the
same as if they did it at Summer Slam. But
from a logistics standpoint, from only having a couple of
weeks of TV time, it's understandable that they would go
ahead and delay that match. Like you said, Bryan, it

(02:35:19):
could be a health issue. It could be that Taker
is just simply not ready, at least at full health
for Summer Slam. They don't want to rush him back
and have him get reinjured and then have him not
be available for the rest of the year. And they
already have Trip late. He's not it sounds like he's
not available until at the end of the year, so
he kind of, you know, they can kind of save
something for him later on. So it's sort of fascinating

(02:35:43):
to see how the Summer Slam card is taking taking
shape with your two title matches with Orton Seamus and
your seven on seven tag match Orton Seamus. What do
you make of that matchup? Do you think that's a
strong match to headline Summer Slam. Would you have like
to have Senior Edge Jericho that slot from Raw or
is that a good Is that the best of the

(02:36:04):
three potential options?

Speaker 6 (02:36:06):
You know, I think they mean the best of what
they had to work with here. My understanding was Triple
H was supposed to have that slot against Seamus, but
he's still out with the injury, and so your next
over Babyfaces is Randy Orton. So I think they did
what they needed to do and went out with with
this guy. I think that's just that's the right choice
at this point. So I'm not you know, I don't

(02:36:28):
think it's not a world setting the World on fire
type main event to close up the show. In fact,
I don't think it will close out the show. I
think they'll probably go with something else, and this would
be one of the semi main events. So I don't
you know, I don't think it's a terrible a terrible
match by any means. Maybe not the strongest one they
could present it, but given the circumstances of injuries, I

(02:36:49):
think that's what, you know, what they have to do.

Speaker 2 (02:36:53):
Yeah, I mean that's sort of that. That's where govern
is as the company is. A lot of injuries are
dictating what they do. It's dictating, yes, we need to
push new stars, and they've done that with an XT.
You know, they get two or three legitimate stars out
of that, and I think that's a good thing.

Speaker 1 (02:37:11):
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Speaker 2 (02:37:51):
What's interesting to me is that the advertisement for Madison
Square Garden in WW has a house show there in September.
Right Heart turning there for the first time in thirteen years.
Is that sort of their their marketing behind that. Also,
NXT is advertised for that six man tag opposite the Hearts,
so perhaps they will maybe split off some of that

(02:38:13):
group and have them on SmackDown. That's sort of been
one of the one of the big questions is why
NXC or Nexus hasn't been involved in SmackDown during the
invasion Angles, So that's sort of interesting if perhaps they
they split them off and have one group on Raw
and one group on smack And I think I'd be
in favor of that. I like that idea, uh, to
utilize that entire roster after how much TV time they've invested.

(02:38:36):
But Ryan, what do you think of right Hart returning
to the ring in MSG and what kind of memories
is that that sort of bring up from his lengthy
career of being one of the top headliners in WWF
during the during the nineteen nineties when they had a
lot of those MSG shows a lot more frequently than they.

Speaker 17 (02:38:54):
Have right now.

Speaker 6 (02:38:56):
Yeah now, you know, and he was kind of at
the tail end of that era where headlining Madison Square
Garden really meant something. And we talked about Backland earlier,
and you know, he obviously headlined several several times to
run monthly shows from Madison Square Garden where back when
would be the champion and he'd be on top. So
it was a different era. It meant so much more

(02:39:18):
than what it does now. But I still think Vince
mc mahon has an appreciation that when he comes home
back to their home base, that he wants to have
a strong show. Brett Hart has been a part of
that over the years in the nineties when that was
still kind of a monthly type stop for WWE. Now
they don't get there quite that often, but you know,
it's kind of a nostalgia thing, I think for Hart

(02:39:43):
as well as for McMahon to headline Brett hardback at MSG.

Speaker 2 (02:39:49):
Very good there, right. I don't want to wrap up
with some nostalgia discussion. You have a lot of nostalgia
news and notes in this week's newsletter talking about the
Parokan Hall of Fame. Some more thoughts on that, I'm
sure wrestlers involved in wrestling historically. Also some news and
notes on Tony Adams, Steve Mongo McMichael inducted in the
College Football Hall of Fame. I wish I could say

(02:40:12):
that one the University of texcause I'm missing Eve. Been
historically a huge UT fan entire live. I just never
went to UT because I was in California and during college.
That's on another story. But good to see Longhord inducted
into the College Football Hall of Fame. Talk about some
of the news and notes you have in this week's
Nostalgian newsletter and then then the of course newsletter.

Speaker 6 (02:40:32):
Yeah, you kind of covered a lot of that already,
and and I did kind of cover what George and
I talked about on the podcast about different interview styles
and how at the Hall of Fame Baron's On Rashki
was in his Baron voice instead of Jim Rashki. He
was talking like the baron and he basically cut several
off the cuff type promos, turning the during the roundtable

(02:40:53):
discussion because he was Barren, and that's what he learned
and grew up with. Especially in a very heavy interview
territory like the AWA, he had to learn how to
talk in front of a microphone in front of a camera,
and he did that very very well, and that's something
he learned throughout his career, so he can still do
it even today.

Speaker 16 (02:41:10):
Whereas if you had.

Speaker 6 (02:41:12):
One of the WWE guys of anybody, especially Sena right now,
unless their promos are scripted, you know they're they're in
big trouble, and especially when they have terrible scripted interviews
as Seena has had recently. It was kind of interesting
to go around and look at some of the amateur
wrestlers at the Hall of Fame who had such major

(02:41:37):
backgrounds in amateur wrestling, be it either college or Olympics.
And I talked with Danny Hodge and Bob Rup and
Baron von Rashki and Mad Doug Mahan, all at the
Hall of Fame who all had Olympic backgrounds and wrestling
and then translated that into professional wrestling careers. Of course,
you have other guys who've been great amateur wrestlers. You know,

(02:41:58):
brock Lesner was an amateur wrestler, National champion, Kurt Angle,
Bob Beckman, who we talked about earlier, Brad Ringins all
come to mind when you talk about major names in
the amateur ranks. But then you look at where those
guys are going now, the amateur guys that are not
in professional wrestling anymore. Except for you know, a couple

(02:42:18):
guys like the Jack Swager who wrestled at Oklahoma, adult
Ziegler who wrestled at Kent State, there isn't too many
guys who wrestled in college anymore. They those guys are
going into MMA, and you know, you look back even
eight ten years ago, guys like Brock Lesner, guys like
Randy Couture and Mark Coleman and John Madsen who's in

(02:42:41):
the heavyweight class. Those are all guys who jump out
at me, who won national titles or were widely respected
as an amateur wrestler and now have made the transition
to MMA. And there's so many guys that are going
from college wrestling into MMA. Josh Kotchek was another guy
who who was highly accredited amateur wrestler, never would have

(02:43:04):
had a chance because of his size in pro wrestling,
making that transition into MMA, and you really wonder what
would you know, what would have happened thirty forty years
ago if there was an MMA, Where would our pro
wrestlers have come from. Obviously they came from the amateur ranks,
not only in wrestling, but also football. And now you
got you have some of the best athletes, amateur wrestlers

(02:43:27):
are avoiding pro wrestling and going into something else, whether
it be football or of course MMA.

Speaker 2 (02:43:34):
And I think that you know that perhaps is one
of the reasons why ww is kind of shifting jam
Offs to a scouting position and trying to recruit from
the NFL is a lot. Perhaps they're never going to
admit it that they see MNA kind of taking some
of the younger stars that previously would have been shifted

(02:43:54):
to OBW like a brock Lessner or something Benjamin and
would have got that training and then eventually made it
the main roster. They're never gonna admit that. They fear
that perhaps with a lot of those guys, you're gonna
start going MMA. And like you said, to other sports
or the NFL, but Jim Ross being shifted to that
scouting role, I think there's a way to counteract that

(02:44:15):
and and try to get some of those coasica Jack Swagger,
who's coming out of the Amashur ranks. And it's not
like Swagger was going to go into the business world
and do financial or do do finances work in the
financial world. And then kind of Jim's kind of stuck
in there and got him into Instart Pro Wrestling. And
I think You're gonna develop into one of the top
stars and this company of the next probably the next

(02:44:37):
ten years or so. I think that's probably why Ross
is in that position to find some of those talents
to restock developmental. I think a lot of developmental is
sort of sort of guys who looked apart but maybe
don't know how to be the part. And and you know,
Ross's kind of hinted that a little bit and some
of the comments he made on Twitter and how he's

(02:45:00):
he's trying to find the guys who are dedicated to
the sport and know what, you know, what is required
of them, because he was, you know, he was down
there scouting this week. So I I mean, Brian, what
do you what do you make of where the next
group of wrestling stars going to come from? Is it
from uh, you know, just from the independent scene, is
it from the amateur rings. Is it guys who maybe

(02:45:21):
fizzle out in NMA and decide, well, I'm going to
make some money in pro wrestling or where is that
next prop or wave of talent going to come from?

Speaker 6 (02:45:28):
Do you think, Well, most of the guys that are
entering into the developmental system seem like they have a
connection to pro wrestling already, whether it be second or
third generation wrestlers. He's got, you know, Very Wyndham, his nephew's,
Mike Rotenda's sons in developmental Teddy Bassis sons are both
down there, Rick Flair, Ricky Steamboat, their sons are wrestling.

(02:45:50):
That's where a lot of these talents are coming from.
Guys who grew up as kids in the business following
their father's footsteps, and and you know that they can
make great wrestlers too, But you're gonna have to have
some sort of mix, and so I think it's very
important that Jim Ross handles this role of scouting wrestlers
and trying to get some of the best wrestlers from

(02:46:11):
amateur ranks to come into professional wrestling. Not everybody can
go into MMA, So you know, there's still guys that
maybe they're not going to have the national champion heavyweight
wrestler every year go into pro wrestling, but maybe they
can get some All Americans like Jack Schlagger was or
Scott Steiner was, some of those type of credited guys
that can still be great professional wrestlers. But I think

(02:46:33):
it's you know, it's a good role for Jim Ross,
good role for Jerry Bristol to handle, and they're seemingly
doing it together. It's a great role. And if they
can do some scouting, do some recruiting, hopefully they'll build
up the independence and the you know, the feeder system
of the Florida Championship Wrestling Territory into a more of
a developmental organization than that it has been so far.

Speaker 2 (02:46:58):
Yep, yep, good discussion, Brian. I think we've pretty much
hit on the big topics. They want to thank you
for joining me. Any any final us out before we
signed off tonight.

Speaker 6 (02:47:09):
No, well, I think we hit it pretty good tonight.
We've got impact and should be a follow up, I
guess to the invasion angle. You've you've already seen all
of it, so I'm sure you could tell us if
it's a good episode or not.

Speaker 2 (02:47:21):
I actually didn't see the Tuesday taping on for tonight's show,
so I'm I mean, I heard about it from a
lot of people who are there, but I haven't. I
haven't seen it, so I'm kind of curious to see
what the follow up is after what I saw the
day before from the TV taping. So it's gonna be
fascinating for a lot of different reasons. Maybe not all

(02:47:42):
good reasons, but it will be fascinating to see. Yeah,
I kind of wish I was there just to see
the follow up to that angle, but yeah, we'll see.
We'll see other places on TV. Yeah, all right, Brian,
thanks for thanks for joining me tonight and members. If
you're listening to this before Impact, be sure to check
out our live coverage of Impact at nine o'clock Eastern tonight,

(02:48:06):
and if you listen to us after a little, stay
tuned for podcast on Friday. As I'm sure Wade and
Bruce Well please need to discuss from tonight's Impact. Thanks again,
Brian for Churches College and columnist Brian, who is Torch
assistant editor James Caldwell starting.

Speaker 1 (02:48:20):
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(02:48:43):
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