15 YRS AGO LIVECASTS: Survivor Series 1991 Roundtable, Juan Cena, promo styles in WWE compared to TNA, Edge not being PG, more

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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 3 (01:36):
Now.

Speaker 2 (01:37):
PW Torch and Spreaker bring you the Wade Keller Pro
Wrestling Podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:46):
On today's Way Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast, We've got a
double header for you here, two episodes backed back from
November twenty second, twenty ten and November twenty fifth, twenty ten.
First up is James Caldwell hosting with Greg Parks and
they discussed with live callers the WWE Survivor Series event
with follow up from John Cena's firing, how to book,

(02:08):
the follow up on Raw, the swerve of Randy orton
retaining the WWE title, thoughts on when ms could cash
in money on the bank, WWE's made event style Edge
not being a PG character and is PG to blame
Forwe's business woes. Plus Randy Orton as doo B Champion
with Vincent Mann return to TV and more. And then
on the November twenty fifth, twenty ten episode, I took
live calls for a while on a holiday, including a

(02:30):
headline News of the day with one Zena, plus other
topics and Missus title reign promo styles and w B
versus TNA and other subjects. And then the last portion
of the show is the Thanksgiving special vintage Audio Torch
Roundtable from nineteen ninety one discussing the Survivor series pay
per view that year. So lots of fun stuff on
this doubleheader. Here on the way Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast

(02:50):
for Thursday November twenty seventh, twenty twenty five.

Speaker 4 (03:09):
You're listening to the PW Torch Live cast. This is
PW Torch Assistant editor James Caldwell hosting today on Monday
October November twenty second, twenty ten. Joined today by Towards
Columbus Greig Parks. Greg. How are you today?

Speaker 5 (03:24):
I'm doing a well James, thank you?

Speaker 4 (03:26):
How are you doing good? Just had dinner, so I'm
ready for the live cast today. And we did the
show on Friday, so we're back at it on Monday.
Booketting the Survivors series coverage. Obviously, last night's pay per
view the big topic in the news today with John
Cena fired an the storyline and how that will be
resolved starting on tonight's show. Great overall for the pay

(03:50):
per view last night, I gave it a five. I
was just right in the middle. Just I wasn't moved one.
I just wasn't moved by last night's pay per view.
It didn't really it just felt like a three hour
episode of raw to me. That That's kind of how
I summed it up in my mind. What was your
evaluation in the show last night? And are you higher

(04:10):
or lower than I am on evaluating that pay per view?
I'm a bit higher.

Speaker 5 (04:14):
I g even a six.

Speaker 6 (04:15):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (04:15):
I'm just based on the strength of the undercard. Really
the main and I wrote in my around stability, the
main events are really disappointing, and that's really become kind of, uh,
kind of something that's been going on for months now
that the undercard has been has been good at any
main events. Of course, when you got Understager keen in

(04:36):
multiple main events, they only have a high certain ceiling
that they're going to reach as far as match quality goes.
You've got Waimaret and Randy Orton who don't really I
think you're really too similar in their ring and don't
match well at all, uh you know, fighting, and you
know John Sena and Randy Orton have become kind of
uh stale and the ring together, so you know that
combination is really hurting the main event match quality. But

(04:58):
then again, you know, the undercar it was pretty good.
I think it could have been better. But you know,
we had about three matches in a row last night
that were two and a half or three stars, which
for an undercard is really good. So you know, just
based on the strength of the undercard, and it looked
like Astrona under good going in. But based on that strength,
I just gave it a stick.

Speaker 4 (05:20):
Yeah. I like the undercard a lot. I mean, those are,
like you said, three good matches to start the show.
The problem for me was the lack of build up.
I mean, they formally announced uh the intercal Tonnel match
on Friday, and they formally announced the US Total match
on Saturday. You know, to me, that's just not enough
time to build up to where that those matches seem
like they mean something. That was my issue with that.

(05:40):
But yeah, the match quality is great. The two title
matches I thought were I don't want these were terrible,
but they just they weren't good. Like you said, you know,
Orton and Barrett I too similar. That's a that's a
great way of putting it. They try to add John
team to the mix. I think, you know, is just
more of a distraction. I mean, I don't a distraction

(06:01):
versus a bad match. I guess so it's kind of
a trade off of, you know, Orton versus Barrier, one
on one straight for twenty minutes. I don't know how
interesting that would have been. John Tena in there. WI
created a distraction, but it also meant that no one
really cared about the match. No one was really you know,
buying the near falls. The audience was kind of waiting
for the twist with the swerve, the running and the
rough bump or something to happen. It didn't happen, and

(06:23):
you know, the finish was really the only time there
was ever any tease of something swervish happening, and that
was you know, Barrett shoved Sena. Sena does the long
look away and then he kind of lightly shoves Bard
back Rko and Orton hige camp still and Scena's fired
or as match strikers said, he's free. So one of

(06:43):
those great moments and would be announcing history watching the
finish for that match. But I'm obviously, Greg, the big
story coming out is Sena. I mean, the whole pay
per view was Buch round Sena, which again hurt the
title match and hurt the prestige of the championship match itself.
So Greg, what are they gonna do a scene it?
Do you think? Obviously Orton retaining was not high in

(07:05):
the list of likely probable outcomes of that match in
and of itself. That was kind of a swerve. So
how do you see this plane out with seen and
now quote unquote fired. How are they getting back? How
long do you think it will take before they kind
of play the sacond where he is back? How do
you see it plane out? I don't know.

Speaker 5 (07:22):
You think they'd have to at least keep him off.

Speaker 4 (07:24):
TV for a few weeks.

Speaker 5 (07:27):
The thing is, it felt like last night's finish was
as anti climactic as they could do. You know, with
all the fan for and all adult level, what.

Speaker 4 (07:36):
Was gonna happen?

Speaker 5 (07:36):
You almost expected a PNA level made event, finished spas
type deal and everything happening that made the match outcome
irrelevant when it came to the post match happenings and
the focus being on scenea rather than you know, the
champion retaining or Barrett winning the title, and it wasn't

(07:57):
like that. It was, you know, seeing to call it
down the middle of the entire mask.

Speaker 4 (08:02):
There are very two problems.

Speaker 5 (08:05):
It's just I don't know, I think I was expecting
more going in. And another problem is, you know that
they're booking and now we're gonna have to find out
what happened to him tonight on Raw. You know, that's
another problem with it, is you have they give They
gave the good bye, and they gave you know, him
time to soak things in and kind of have not

(08:28):
put the crowd a little in his people, so it
didn't at least they didn't cut it off right then
and we had to wait for his reaction tonight on
Raw or whatever. But they're booking the pay per views
based on okay, you're you're paying for this, but you
have to tune in to RAW for the rest of it.
And you know, as someone who's a paying customers saying
forty five dollars or something like that, you know, you

(08:51):
don't come away with a great feeling when you know
they're booking to RAW instead of booking to the pay
per views.

Speaker 4 (08:56):
Yeah, exactly right, I mean that that's what I put
in my round table. My first paragraph was it you know,
it felt like, you know, a three hour show that
didn't resolve much of an And Jim Ross said in
his blog today he said the main event left what
more questions and answers, you know for a big I
mean I could almost excuse that if it was you know,

(09:17):
Bragging Rights or Fatal four way and the price was
thirty dollars instead of forty five, and they're using this
a spreme board to TV and perhaps to a bigger
pay per view match the next pay per view. But
when it's a big four pay per view and you're
asking me, what's spend forty five dollars and you don't
really resolve anything, You're just booking toward the next TV show.

(09:38):
And that's an issue, you know, then it's been an
issue for a while. It's the way that w has
booked their TV leading. You know, the pay per views
are just sort of a glorified TV show now and
they still want people to spend more money than they
ever have on these events. So, I mean, we've seen
it this year with pay per view business being down.
I don't see it get any better next year. I mean,

(09:59):
the lesser is like a major change in business. But
you know last night's last night's pay per view had
a chance to be I thought something special, you know
if they went I you know, I don't see them
ever doing the scene and heel turn and so he
just he loses team as a as a cash cow,
as a merchandise seller and a TV draw and kind

(10:20):
of gets to the whole Cooga nineteen ninety six stage
where it wouldn't be shocking if he turned heel and
they wouldn't be losing that much money on the on
the revenue side. So they're not there yet. But you know,
if they wanted to kind of spice up their business
and create a wave for their business, you know, Sena
doing something different with Sena could have been that that
Ansel last night instead They went a very conservative, very safe,

(10:42):
very PG friendly routes, kind of setting up John Cena,
you know, as as a hero, which is fine. So,
I mean, I understand why they did it. It's fine
the way they did, but they had an opportunity to
do something different. It really spice things up. But you know,
they're they're in a they're in a holding pattern. They're
in sort of uh, you know, we're not being challenged

(11:02):
with anyone. TNA isn't challenging us. There's no other competition
in the market. Why should we try to do something different?
Why should we try to make a major change. So
that's kind of where they are. And I understand why
they went the route they did. I just it left
me with a flat feeling last night, So greag for
tonight's show and kind of going forward the I mean,
the the obvious conclusions. This has something to with Vincent

(11:24):
mann you know he comes back to tv ere in
State Sina. There's some sort of penalty for the GM
and or Barrett. Do you see that happening? Do you
see mcmannon getting involved in this either tonight or in
the week, should come or is he is? He does
he remain on the sidelines. You know, how does mcmanon
get involved or not involved.

Speaker 5 (11:41):
I really think they need to keep his man on
the sidelines. You know, he's not gonna add anything unless
he just comes back as the ultimate authority figure and Alextaragm.
I think we've talked about this on a Friday that
the only way I could see them getting away with
bringing Scena back early is if they coupled that with
some something shocking kind of just track fans from that
fact that. I think revealing the row GM could be.

(12:03):
That could be that thing that would not make fans
feel okay the scene that's coming back so early, but
at least they're getting something in return, that being the
identity of the raw GM. I don't know if WW
is ready to do that. I don't know where they
want that storyline to go, but you know there's got

(12:24):
to be something that that that's going to.

Speaker 7 (12:26):
Bring him back.

Speaker 5 (12:26):
You know, he said he can't go to SmackDown.

Speaker 6 (12:28):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (12:29):
He's released, you know, in general from WWE. So it'll
be interesting to see how they work that. I think
they may keep him off TV for a few weeks,
although that's gonna be tough because that's I mean that's
where ratings draw that they're they're keeping off TV for
for a while. But you have to balance that with
the fact that you know they've done so many and

(12:51):
KNA has done so many of these retirement stipulations or
lose at least talent stipulations, and they just haven't followed through,
and nobody expects them to follow through with this one.

Speaker 7 (13:00):
You know, No, that's just not realistic.

Speaker 5 (13:02):
But you have to have a creative way for him
to come back or at least leave him on a
sidelines for several weeks, if not months. But of course
we know the months isn't gonna happen. But you know,
you've got to do something to make it seem like
a big deal when he comes back.

Speaker 4 (13:20):
Yeah, yeah, I mean otherwise, I mean, I agree with you.
They've got to keep him off TV. I don't care
if they have an explanation to bring him back. He's
got to be off TV for an extended period of time,
you know, and they can, hopefully they know how to
determine what an acceptable period of time is for him
to be off TV. They've got to sell this storyline.

(13:41):
They built an entire pay per view around this stipulation,
and they does an entire angle for you know what,
June's November. You know, they've built an entire four or
five months of TV building toward John Cena in the
door dye situation. So you can't just have a come
back on TV. To me, that would ruin the entire angle.

(14:02):
No one's gonna trust him again on this angle. I mean,
I know that a lot of Russianians are very short memories.
In WW oftentimes banks on their audience not having any
memory at all, but I mean, especially to send off,
you know, the way they kind of I would say,
kind of toward with the emotions of their audience. Obviously,
kids will probably forgive and forget it to see if
it comes back and he's stronger than ever. But i

(14:24):
mean just kind of the way they tour with that that.
You know, you picture ten year olds who order, who
convinced their parents who order the paper for them, and
there's a hero, you know, leaving w B. You know,
I'm sure theres a rough people, a lot of kids
around the US at school today. I mean, we sit
her and a laugh about it, but I'm sure that happened.
So they've got to be careful with how they do this,

(14:45):
how they bring him back in the and the way
they bring him back, I imagine he'll be at ACT
within a month. That's kind of my my prediction for that,
but we'll find out more. The night's a wrong he's.

Speaker 5 (14:55):
Been based on the send out that they got last night,
he is going to be on TV for a while.
I mean, that's not a sendoff you give if you're
planning on bringing him back in a few weeks.

Speaker 8 (15:05):
Does that?

Speaker 5 (15:05):
I mean that that felt like they were planning on
already lost for a little while at least with that center.

Speaker 4 (15:11):
Yeah, And that's why it's so hard to really get
a firm idea of how long they're gonna keep him
off because ww B does this so often where it
seems like they're going to keep somebody off TV for
a while, then the person's right back. I mean the
demo Christ Jericho. How many times did he do this
type of deal where if you lost this match, he
was done in WV and then and then he came
back the next week? Is uh, you know, doing the

(15:33):
protest deal a big show? I mean the show w
does not have a good track record of actually following
through on these types of things, Sean Michaels is the
only one, you know, the only recent one, and that
was legit.

Speaker 1 (15:46):
Anytime you're watching ww E Raw or SmackDown or AEW
Dynamite in particular, send us an email if you've got
thoughts on the show or a topic you want us
to address or a question for us. Wade Keller Podcast
at PW torch dot Wade Keller Podcast at petew torch
dot com. If there's anything else going on in pro
wrestling that you want us to address on our main

(16:07):
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Keller Podcast at PW torch dot com. We invite that interaction.
Let us know what you think of what we're saying,
and let us know what you want us to talk
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Speaker 5 (16:25):
The other thing they could do is go the office route,
where when Dwight got fired, these cameras still followed him
around at his new job. Soumably, they can have the
camera WWE cameras following him around you and while he's
sitting at home in Boston or whatever, and you know,
so he's still technically on TV, even though he's not
quote unquote a part of Monday.

Speaker 9 (16:43):
Night Raw or whatever.

Speaker 4 (16:45):
So though I follow him around and where's living Tampa?
I guess, so they'll fall him to the gym and
there's maybe old sewn Michael's bit, you know Sean and
was swipping burgers and then Triple H found him and
dragged him back to TV. I little l Yeah that
was great. Yeah, maybe our truth find seeing in Tampa

(17:06):
and convince us him to come back and negotiate with
the GM and that's how he gets back. Who knows
or negotiating bar it or something.

Speaker 5 (17:12):
I mean, it's a way to keep my TV without
him technically now, without him being.

Speaker 4 (17:18):
I don't know the company under contract.

Speaker 5 (17:20):
I mean you could you could say, you know, he's
out out of your contract with WW.

Speaker 7 (17:24):
But we're gonna find anyway.

Speaker 4 (17:26):
You'll be on the front roll if buy take it,
sit in the front row and they can put a
camera in two hours. Yeah yeah, uh don't. I'll find
a way out of it. He'll find a way how
they get there. I'm interested to find out. You know, Barrett,
obviously he gave me the reason. He can say, you
know what, No, I need seeing him back. I need
to beat him. You know, he cost me the championship.

(17:48):
I don't know. We'll see but Greg, before get a
phone calls, I want to go on and give up
the phone number if you want to jump on the
phone lines. While Greg and I kind of finish up
our pre show discussion here six or four six eight
the phone number, join us on the live capt today
Greek before get to phone calls. The SmackDown title match

(18:09):
Edge versus Kane. I'm sure you're so excited about this one.
Last night you covered the build up to this. The
hostage situation that played out over a period of two
episodes led to a ratings drop worth noting. Greg, your
thoughts of edging Kine and are we getting a rematch?

Speaker 5 (18:26):
Do you think I almost literally have no thoughts about
Kane versus Edge. I mean that's how that's how nondescriptive
was last night. There just wasn't anything worth talking about.
The finish was kind of hokey, but acceptable as long
as they do don't do it very often. The build up,
you know, and I wrote this in last SmackDown report

(18:48):
on Friday night.

Speaker 4 (18:49):
It was awful.

Speaker 5 (18:50):
The build up was awful. You know, Paul Barre being abducted.

Speaker 4 (18:55):
By Edge and Edge like throwing.

Speaker 5 (18:57):
Pizza at him and whatever. That that does make me
want to see Edge versus Uh Kane anymore. It was
just bizarre that they I don't know if it was
like they took a different turn with that just character
again and they can't find any consistency with that character.
It's just it was it was confusing. It was I
didn't think it was very consistent.

Speaker 4 (19:20):
It was just it was really poor.

Speaker 5 (19:22):
It's really poor build up. I thought to that match.

Speaker 4 (19:24):
Yeah, yeah, it's good way to sum it up. And
I think we're probably gonna get another match, you know,
just based on that finish. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah,
I mean I don't know if they kind of wait
for Undertaker, but I mean that's a long time to
wait for him because that's you know, he's hit or
mentally for WRESTLEMANI at this point. So you know, do
they go, I mean who else they have, you know,
Raymond Cereal again with Kine or I mean del Rio?

(19:48):
Did they do a heal heel? I don't want to
see that, but yeah, no, I just don't out there.
I'm not endorsing it.

Speaker 5 (19:58):
I'm just saying possibility.

Speaker 4 (20:00):
I meant they did it for two weeks in Europe,
and I think you got progressively worse. You know. It's
like you kind of want that match to get better
as the tour goes along. But I think based on
the reports that got from the beginning to the end
of that tour, it got worse, you know, So no,
no show. I'd almost take another kidnapping. And I would

(20:20):
almost take four weeks of more kidnapping with Edge, because
at least Edge is halfway interesting, even if he's in
a crappy storyline.

Speaker 5 (20:27):
So that is a great either or question. I don't
know which from I would take.

Speaker 4 (20:32):
Do blog, Greg, you now you have two blog assignments.

Speaker 9 (20:37):
I'll analyze that.

Speaker 4 (20:39):
There you go. Either all right, let's go ahead and
get to the phone line seeing let's go to uh listen,
you know, Tennessee, and thanks for holding and welcome to
the show. What do you have for a sing?

Speaker 10 (20:49):
Hey, guys, I.

Speaker 11 (20:51):
Was just noticing something going back a few years with
the w w E nine inventors. It seems like, you know,
it was that they implemented this new main event style
of wrestling that a lot of the main event guys
when they get into the ring, there's nothing that distinguishes
any of them from the other ones. I think, you know,

(21:13):
the only exception was Sean Michael and Jeff Hardy, And.

Speaker 4 (21:19):
You know, you mean in the sense of the way
they look or the way they work, the way.

Speaker 10 (21:25):
They work, the way they work really because I don't
really have that big of a problem with John Cena
and Randy Orton's matches. They're just boring, and Wade Barrett
is more the same. I mean, nothing to take away
from either of the three of them, but you know,
Edge is my favorite wrestler, and you know, ever since

(21:48):
he's been a main eventor and a champion, he's just
had that uniqueness taken away from him. Do you think
that maybe would be something to kind of help turn
around businesses they get inject some movement into their maze
at all.

Speaker 4 (22:04):
Yeah, Greg, what's your take on this?

Speaker 5 (22:07):
You know, the problem is the way they run developmental
I mean, that's how far this problem goes. Is that
they train their wrestlers to wrestle the kind of match
they want in that main event scene. And you do
get that uniformity in match, not match quality, but how
these guys work, and it's basically the same. You know,

(22:28):
each guy has a few moves that set them apart,
you know, so they can throw them into the snack
don versus or our video game or whatever, and you
got to signature moves. These guy has about three or four.
Then they got their finishing moves. And not only that,
but it seems like every match is built the exact
dame why too. You know, it's almost like you don't
need agents at this point because every wrestler should know
exactly how a match goes. I mean, how many times

(22:51):
every tag team match ends the exact same way? Now
you know where they're the smiles in the ring, and
then you know, everybody somehow gets to eliminate the outside
and it comes down the two legal people. Again, it's
just the way it is.

Speaker 4 (23:03):
It's the way matches are building.

Speaker 5 (23:04):
Is the way guys wrestle. Now, I think loosening up
on that and fucking guys from all over the United
States and not bringing them to developmental to break them
down and build them back up in you know, the
way you want them to wrestle main events is the
way to go. I think the uniqueness could only help,
but you know, WW doesn't want that for whatever reason.

(23:25):
And the result is these guys are so interchangeable, and
maybe that's the point that they want them to be interchangeable,
not to lose a step, and but but they lose
that uniqueness and they lose drawing more fans in because
these guys are way too.

Speaker 4 (23:40):
Much the same.

Speaker 5 (23:40):
And also the look, I mean, when you don't hire
anybody over sixty to fifty, you know, that's chiseled the
uniqueness in the look, the uniqueness and how.

Speaker 4 (23:49):
The matches are built.

Speaker 5 (23:50):
The uniqueness then moves that it's all out the window,
and these guys are interchangeable cocks, and you know, in
the w W machine, that's probably what they want.

Speaker 4 (24:01):
Yeah, there's a certain amount of uniformity to the way
they wrestle. And also they try to create that uniqueness
to the storylines, you know, unique as in, we have
a kidnapping angle this this month, as opposed to me,
what was the last month, the Bear Life deal with
Kane undertakers. So I mean it's like they try to
create the distinguishment between the matches based on the storyline

(24:23):
on TV, even if the storyline is so lame and
has absolutely nothing to do with A with a title match.
I mean, if Kane beat Edge last night, but let's
say he beat him clean, what does that solve. It
solves absolutely nothing on where Paul Behar is and why
Edge kinnapped him, you know, like it doesn't match up,

(24:45):
and you yet they continue to do this on especially
on SmackDown. It's just so frustrating because you've got you know,
Kine scream at Edge and the middle of the match, you know,
where's Paul Behar? Well, why would he tell you? You know,
it's the No A Championship match. I just these things
are driving me crazy. But I mean, even to your point,
it's just they try to create, you know, the the

(25:05):
uniqueness of the matchups to the storyline on TV, and
I just needed so backwards and like you said, we
get to where we get similar I mean even way Barrett.
I thought, way Barrett. He's looked so good on TV
in the last several weeks, and then in that pay
per view match, he looked I don't want to say
he looked lost, but he just didn't have that spark.
He didn't have that, he didn't have that Wade Barrett

(25:28):
to him, you know, he was like he was intimidated
by the big stage or something, and he just kind
of looked like a generic tall guy. It looks like
Grandy Orton almost because they have, you know, wrestled the
same way, and they had the same look almost and
same trunks and just it looked the same looks like
two guys wrestling in each other. So yeah, I mean
I definitely I definitely felt your your painting during those

(25:50):
two matches the Survivor series. That's kind of why I
rated it the overall paper yew of five because you
had standout performances. I mean, Dale Bryan. When you could
put Daniel Bryant in that main event scene, I mean, yeah,
they might try to make him wrestle that may event style,
but at least he'll look different, you know, he'll be
a different wrestler. It'll be a different character that made
events seem So when they can incorporate different wrestlers into

(26:11):
that picture, then I think there may have been style.
Would will you know, be more marketable right now? You
know they all look the same. So I agree with
you on Eddian.

Speaker 11 (26:20):
Any other thoughts or fall up on that, Yeah, I
guess it just seems like to me, you know, the
problems they had with China and Stable getting a big head.
Do you think that maybe they're trying to humble some
of these guys so they don't have any leverage and
they don't become head cases.

Speaker 4 (26:40):
I think Seamus is a great example of that. I
think Seamus has been kind of gone through the humbling
process with the Santino feud where it was kind of,
you know, having to look kind of silly at times,
and the loss of John Morrison last night as a
paper guy. I think Seamus is going through that sort
of the ego check. I think Jack's went through that

(27:00):
after he won the world title and they had that
awful three months title reign. You know, it's just basically
the a reason to you know, basal they're trying to
do is try to elevate him by putting the belt
on him. But if that belt doesn't mean anything, it
doesn't really mean much to Swagger's character if he's not
focused in credible champions. So that's said, they still view
that sort of an ego check, you know, after the

(27:22):
title reign, as even sure there was a lot of
people teddvosity, he was kind of knocked out a little
bit after you know this year after the WrestleMania match
with Orton and Kobe Rhoads, So he's gonna he's said
it comes through that process, Greg, any anybody else gonna
come to mind?

Speaker 5 (27:39):
No, I mean, you know, they hit Kobe Kanston, who
looked like he was gonna be a huge breakout star
in the feud with tarani Ard, and then they kind
of pulled back on him there. And I don't know
if it's the conscious humbling process, humbling process by w
w E, or if you know, we've talked about this before,
it you know, move these guys up to a main
event level for a few weeks to see if they
can run with the ball if we need him, pull
him back and say okay that we know you can

(28:00):
take it. If there's an injury or a spot opens up,
we're not afraid to put you in that position. So
I don't know if it's particularly a purposeful humble in process,
although I think they do do that to guys. I
think certainly that there's a lot of evidence that says
that the humble process they've done to people within the
company before, But in all these examples that we've listened tonight.

Speaker 4 (28:22):
I don't know if that's the case or if it's
just you know.

Speaker 5 (28:25):
Them preparing for trying to prepare these guys for maybe
push on the line if it's necessary.

Speaker 4 (28:31):
Yeah, yeah, good point there, Greg yep Ian. Appreciate the
call them, Thanks for thanks for calling in today again.
You're listening to the PW Torch Live guest. This is
p to B Torch assistant entered James Caldwell hosting today
alongside Torch. Call him is correct, Parks. We'll be here
for the next thirty five minutes before our live coverage
of w RAW tonight at nine o'clock Eastern on p

(28:53):
tw B torch dot com. A note that if you're
not a torch b if you remember, you're missing out
on the Post Survivor series audio roundtable with Wade Keller,
Bruce Mitchell Pat McNeil, recorded after last tight's pay per view,
A great sixty minute breakdown of the pay per view,
the ramifications, the booking, the what's going to happen going forward.
If you're not a toward VIP memory, you can find

(29:16):
out how to access all that great audio goodness, as
well as several other audio updates just in the last
five days, including the after show that Greg and I
recorded after Friday's live cast. And if you want to
find out all the information on that pep torch dot
com slash go vip for all the subscription and rate
information there. Let's go to our next phone call. Let's

(29:38):
go to the three four seven area code three four
to seven. Welcome to the show. Please stay you name
in where you're from?

Speaker 6 (29:44):
Uh?

Speaker 4 (29:44):
This is Christian, New York.

Speaker 12 (29:46):
I wanted to talk about the John Cena storyline situation. Personally,
I think they should. I think they should bring him
back as soon as they whenever they want to, because
quite honesty, you talk about the kids highlizes Sina. This
thing is the tenants stress the fact that it's a.

Speaker 13 (30:00):
Stake, it's entertainment.

Speaker 12 (30:01):
If they want to see Sina, they should bring him back.
And I think the bestman to bring him back Vincent Man.
Bring him back, and in the process that can reveal
the Triple Ah is a general manager, because it's about it.
This thing would only give autonomy to someone who trust.
He wouldn't give it to Jim Ross, who in storyline
belittle Tim. Triple Ah has McMahon's trust, and they revealed

(30:22):
that he's already the sun in law in storyline in
your life, and you can also have it that tiple
H wanted to get rid of Seena because he was
jealous of his position at the top past in the company,
and in the process he turned tiple a heel. And
you can also have a Sina tiple A feud.

Speaker 4 (30:40):
Which was Yeah, Chris, that's I mean, that's an interesting scenario.
I mean, obviously one of the big glingeren uh I
guess things hovered over w right now is when does
Triple Ah come back? Greg? Is that a likely unlikely
scenario for how Hunter comes back? Would you see him
more involved with Shamus when he does come back to TV?

Speaker 1 (31:03):
If you missed it earlier, Just a reminder, we're running
our second VIP sale of the year. We don't do
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limited time offer. Take nine dollars off a VIP subscription
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twenty twenty five, and that takes nine dollars off when

(31:25):
you check out on our sign up form pw torch
dot com slash go vi ip gives you full details
on membership benefits and links to our sign up form.

Speaker 5 (31:36):
I definitely see him being more involved than Shamantha. You know,
the hey, that storyline never finished, So for him to
come back and too to a Tina and kind of
ignore Shamoth, I think that would be a really odd
dynamic to be having with Shamouth on a lot at
the same time as Triple Ah. Yeah, not relate knowledge
and effect. And what makes it worse is they keep
bringing it up. Shamith Auth and Bryansy retired Triple Ation.

(31:58):
The announcers bring it up, so to have Triple A
return and not address that situation and immediately moving to
a few Withsina. I think that could have been done
if they didn't keep hyping the fact that Shamus is
the one that put Triple H on the shelf and
kind of retired him.

Speaker 4 (32:12):
So to speak.

Speaker 5 (32:13):
So I think it's more likely that he comes back
to through the Shamans at least off the bat, and
it could be just a one month few. You know,
Triple Ah destroys Shamuth or whatever. Not great for the
long term of business, but if you want an immediate
turnaround and having few with Sina, that's the way to go.

Speaker 7 (32:26):
I always say.

Speaker 5 (32:30):
Yeah. As for the kids all knowing that the wrestling
is fake because a pair of health, I don't know that,
like is a bit like Santa Claus, Like what at
what age did the parents tell that wrestling is wrestling
is fake? I don't know, you know, I don't know
how that goes anymore because I'm I'm haven't been a

(32:50):
kid in in so long, and I'm not sure when
that takes place. I'm sure it's different for everybody, but
I'm sure there aren't a lot of kids out there
that think it Israel uh. And you know, it's fits
a matter of I don't know, I think a lot.
I think there's still kids out there who will believe
Johnson has really fired. I just know, you know, you're

(33:12):
running at tiropa as how to portray that if you're
on TV, because most of the audience knows he's not.
But there's a select few that you're specifically the ones
that you're playing to you the demographic you're trying to draw,
which is the kids.

Speaker 4 (33:26):
Who believes he is.

Speaker 5 (33:27):
So that's the tyrope the WAW for WW coming up.

Speaker 4 (33:30):
Yeah, I think that the way to handle it is
to sort of drop the hint that you make it
a subtle hint. Don't make it so overt like oh,
John Cena will be coming back in three weeks, you know,
but do something to where you hit to the audience
so they understand that, yes, Sina will be coming back,
but you know, join us on the ride to find

(33:50):
out how it plays out. You know, it's sort of
a link to the audience. However, suddenly they can they
can accomplish that, and uh, you know, and Bruce a
way to impact time of discuss at the roundtable last
night is you know, just you know, play it out where.
And I kind of like what Bruce said in the
round table episode, which is do the tribute to seeing him,
make it about see it tonight. Uh, just sort of

(34:11):
a tribute. You know, you don't have a pain, You
don't have to go right to hype in the next
pay per view. Do the tribute. And also, you know,
kind of hint that seeing it we'll be coming back,
you know, we don't know how. And so as for
the journey to find out how he comes back, you know,
so there's a way to do it smartly. And suddenly
it's where the audience is not sitting there, you know, pouting,

(34:32):
you know, the kids aren't crying themselves to sleep because
he is gone forever. So there's no way to do that,
and so I'm very curious to see how they I guess, well,
I said, Greg, walk that tightrope of how do we
create the journey and also give the audience a sense
of relief that no, he's not gone forever. And so
let's see that plays out. Chris appreciate the call. We're

(34:54):
gonna keep running through calls in the last half hour
of the show to get to as many people on
hold right now. So let's go ahead and go to
the seven o eight area code. Seven O eight. Welcome
to the show. Plet you say your name and where.

Speaker 14 (35:04):
You're from and the jobs from Chicago.

Speaker 4 (35:07):
Hey John, what's going on today?

Speaker 15 (35:10):
Yeah?

Speaker 14 (35:11):
I was wondering what I'm having John Cena take. Like
the storyline where he's he lost is because he has
a movie come out, so like he can't be there
in some way he wants a film or something or
that's my question.

Speaker 4 (35:29):
Yeah, no, he doesn't. I mean, unless there's a super
secret movie being filmed that we don't know about him,
unless he got you know, that Superman role, and they're
gonna believe that's I mean, that's filming in next year.
But you know, Johnson has just filmed a movie for
w V Film one in October in New Mexico. So
I don't think it's that. I just think that. I mean, Greg,

(35:49):
do you do you talk about more to why they
did this? Because they wanted to do something different with Nexus,
They h they just wanted to create, you know, four
weeks of TV that's intriguing and they kind of go
a little bit different direction. Why do you think they
decided to go this route?

Speaker 5 (36:05):
I'm not sure. And that's the first thing that I
would have imagined was that there was, you know, a
movie that they're filming that that scene would be out
of commission for and I'll let him take some time
off by doing this gimmick where he's fired from WWE.

Speaker 4 (36:20):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (36:20):
They've done that kind of thing before, so it wouldn't
have been surprising. I think it's more surprising than the
fact they did it while he's not selling a movie.
So I'm not really sure, you know that may that's
what makes me think all the more that he's not
gonna be off TV for very long.

Speaker 4 (36:35):
Yeah, I agree with you on that. I lean I
look at this more. And that's kind of why it's
so a little bit slat with the audience. I think,
because it's like there was some story circulating that everybody
knew about, Oh if he has gonna go film a movie,
or oh scene is injured, or oh whatever, he's gonna
go do some special in in Hawaii. I'm drawing things.

(36:55):
I've had a professional why oh right, that's awesome. But
I just that's totally drove my puff. It's so awesome.
But uh, because that Elvis, specially in hy is like
one of the greatest television events ever.

Speaker 6 (37:15):
We're not gonna get.

Speaker 5 (37:16):
You kind of pulled that out of left field. I mean,
that was that was interesting.

Speaker 4 (37:19):
Yeah, it wasn't even where I was going with that.
But but yeah, so, I mean it's not like there's
some like rumor going around that seems to be off TV.
You know, it's just he's you know, he's still part
of WV and as far as we know, he's still
going to be part of the company. So I just
think it's something that they came to a point, a
fork in the road of this is where we are

(37:41):
the storyline, we've kind of booked ourselves at this point.
What do we do with it? And this is kind
of what they did, is they decided to go a
a almost kind of swerve of the audience because it
was not what was expected. You know, no one expected
Ordon to retain the time. Everyone was kind of anticipating
in the swerve, like we're talking about the top of
the shows. So, like you say, regular leaves me to

(38:02):
believe that he won't be off TV that long. You'll,
you know, they'll do the tribute prats, they'll do some
sort of wait it to you know, bring seene it
back after a couple of weeks. And that's kind of
where I'm leaning to that. So so so an answer
your question, Chris, I'm sorry, John, No, there's not really
a movie out there, unless it's a super secret movie.

(38:22):
But uh yeah, I think he'll be back on TV
pretty soon. Appreciate the call, John, And let's go ahead
and grab some more phone calls. Let's go to the
seven to five seven area code seven five to seven
welcome to the show. We did your name and where
you're from?

Speaker 7 (38:38):
Hey, then really showing him from Virginia.

Speaker 4 (38:41):
Hey, Sean, what do you have for? Say?

Speaker 8 (38:43):
Hey?

Speaker 7 (38:44):
A couple of points? One you gotta be talking about
it seem that thing. And I gotta tell you the
night that they keep them off the TV for at
least ninety days, almost to kind of make fun of
their own policy when people can't do anything for ninety
days after they release it.

Speaker 4 (38:57):
Not'd be kind of fun. I mean, they do poke
fun at themselves right now, you know you can, Yeah,
Matt strikes on the next paper, few kind of you know,
do a featured endeavor comment or something like that. But great,
I mean, do you think they would do that? Do
you think they would even keep them off TV for
ninety days? What do you think about that?

Speaker 5 (39:15):
Well, my initial reaction is no, I don't think they'll
keep them up ninety days, And even if they did,
I don't think enough of their core audience, you know,
gets that reference that the ninety days down comfy, cause
that it would be worth keeping them off the TV
for ninety days just for that. But and it really
would all depend on how you bring them back.

Speaker 9 (39:33):
Not so much the.

Speaker 5 (39:34):
Length of time you keep them off TV. But if
you're going into the ninety day territory, a three month
territory that he hasn't been on TV, uh, you got
to have a pretty good plan to bring him back.

Speaker 4 (39:43):
I think, yeah, yeah, so we'll go back to you
real quick. Did you ever the question to follow up?

Speaker 7 (39:50):
Actually it was more or less we kind of tied
into the other thing you guys were talking about with
Edgen Kane. I just I don't feel like line. They're
kind of glass and it's strong Edge because ever since
Edge has become a name of that, he's always been
kind of off the deep end of the character. He's
always been kind of crazy, and I mean you go
back to some of the stuff he's done. He's always

(40:12):
either been very violent or he had like the live
sex Show celebration on TV. And then as soon as
they really started pushing this PG thing, he's come across
as a goof essentially, and nobody's really taking him seriously.
I think that's why people have such a hard time
getting behind Edge is because he really needs a serious

(40:34):
time of character to get over. I mean, you can
be a little over the top, but he's always been
kind of off the deep end, a little crazy, you
know what I mean, not goofy.

Speaker 4 (40:42):
I will correct you on one think, Sean, it's now
a live celebration in the history books have been rewritten
on the Edge live celebration there, so that's a joke. Greg.
What's your reaction what Sean said about Edge's character and
how he's presented now in a future era.

Speaker 5 (41:01):
I think some of the times he's been crazy as
the main aventure, I don't know that when he was
with Vicky Guerrero he really was a crazy character. Although
I guess one could say that being with Vicky Guerrero
inherently makes you crazy, but his character was, and I
would know crazy as much as you guys been against Kane.
You know. The other thing is I feel like this

(41:22):
was a really last minute thing to plug him into
the main event with when the Undertaker got hurt and
ended up needing time off.

Speaker 4 (41:30):
For rotator cuff surgery.

Speaker 5 (41:31):
Is they had to kind.

Speaker 4 (41:33):
Of abandon his angle, his gimmick as.

Speaker 5 (41:36):
Being the guy who points out everything stupid on WWE programming.
You know, I felt like it was months ago when
he was doing that, but it was only a few
weeks ago, and they kind of had to pull him
off of that to put him in the main event
scene the feud with Caine because of Taker being on
the shelf. So when you're getting pulled in that many
different directions, of course, your character is not gonna be consistent,
which really hurts the presentation of the main event feud

(41:58):
because you were this one minute and now you're this
next minute, because ww we need you over here, and
we got to ignore what you were doing. And that's
one of the problems and one of the times they
could have used the KOFE Kingston, or could have used
somebody fresh in the main events scene where you're not
totally twisting and kind of fastardizing their character by totally
switching it at the last minute because you need a replacement.

Speaker 4 (42:21):
Yeah, and I can imagine in about a year when
when Edge recaps all the stupid stuff he's done on TV.
But we can add, oh, I know, Paul perrour hostage
for for two weeks and no one investigated it. You know,
no one care, Kaine, No one cares, you know. I mean,
it'd be one of those things to add to his
list of stupid things that he rattles off you know,

(42:41):
when whatever he's involved in and there's an opportunity for that,
it seems to get pops up like every two years
or hedges in a storyline where he can rattle off
all the dumb things he's done on TV as a character.
So we we're gonna add this one that list, and
that's how we'll remember this period of time on SmackDown
in the year twenty ten as exciting as it's been.
All Right, let's go to another phone call. Let's go

(43:02):
to the three three seven area code. Three three seven.
Welcome to the show. Please see your name in where
you're from. Yeah, guys, Mike from Louisiana. Hey, Mike, what's
going on today? What do you guys think that the
mis kind of fits into all this? You know, I
don't know. I mean, Greg, you and I kind of

(43:23):
talked about this last week, and I believe in our
chat as well, But I don't know where misfits in
right now. I mean, he was just kind of came
out through the pay per view and did a local
heel sports promo. And unless you's gonna cash in sometime
soon and I'm on the record scene, I don't think
you'll cash in this year, where does misfit in right now?

Speaker 5 (43:44):
Greg Well, with Taste out of the picture, they need
someone the feud with Wade bear un unless they're gonna
keep up the Barrett Orton feud, which really hasn't shown
too much fire in their ring on the problems, mostly
because it's been focused on down seeing him. So with
the Orton still champion, you could have missed you with

(44:05):
Orton here coming up unless you move someone else into
that slot. So I can see that. I think one
of the interesting things was, you know, hey, he's been
discussed internally in WWE and by US as what if
he's the first guy to not cash in the money
in the bank, like not win the match, and you know,

(44:27):
you could have him doing a match where uh Daniel
Brian finally guess his ultimate come up and kind of
interferes with the rest back in turns and costs uh
Miss his opportunity. You know, you're running the risk of
doing a screw job ending there on Miss, but I think,
you know the crowd he would be great for it
because this has been kind of building where Daniel Bryan
finally gets the ultimate revenge on the Miz and you

(44:50):
know the Miss could sell out with that price, will
flick on his face realizing that Daniel Bryan just cost
him his guaranteed.

Speaker 13 (44:56):
Shot at a w W championship.

Speaker 5 (44:59):
So I think they can do that with him, and
you know, but also don't put him back in the
mid card after that.

Speaker 4 (45:04):
You know.

Speaker 5 (45:05):
I think he's shown since he's gotten a briefcase and
even before that, that he can be a main evat
level star. So the key is to you know, keep him,
keep him in the main event spotlight, even if he's
on a periphery like he is now. I think fans
are really buying him for the most part in that
main event spot.

Speaker 4 (45:24):
Yeah. I think he's proven him that he belongs in
that spot, and uh, they just you know, they're just
kind of biding your time wait for for him to
have a program. It's it's been a while since the
Daniel Brian feud ended, and like you said, Greg, perhaps
they did the cash in and and Brian you know,
kicks him in the face and and whoever the champion
has been missed, So that would be one way really

(45:45):
set up a big time blowoff match to their feud,
which you know, they they really haven't had the blowoff yet,
and that'd be the one way to really set that up.
So I like that scenario. Maybe we'll see something on
Row tonight. Who knows.

Speaker 16 (45:57):
But I'm Chris Maitland and I'm Justin McClelland we host
Wrestling Coast to Coast, where we scour the wrestling scene
to find the best wrestling from the smallest places.

Speaker 17 (46:10):
There are thousands of matches happening every week, so Wrestling
Coast to Coast is here to discover the men and
women who could be big time stars in a few years.

Speaker 16 (46:18):
There are plenty of podcasts to voters to w W
and AW, but what's happening in the armories and gymnasiums
local wrestling hotspots around the country.

Speaker 17 (46:25):
We can't wait to help you find the true hidden
gems of the wrestling world. Plus you can hear Chris
complain about bad referees.

Speaker 16 (46:31):
And justin bemoaning dog pole fins.

Speaker 17 (46:33):
Don't forget my fetal search to see a blue thunderbomb
win a match?

Speaker 16 (46:37):
How can I like? The name says We cover the
hottest independent promotions from around the country, such as Prestige Action,
West Coast, Pro, Revolver, and Beyond Wrestling.

Speaker 17 (46:46):
Actually Chris, I think we sick pretty much to wrestling.

Speaker 2 (46:49):
No, I mean beyond wrestling out of Worcester.

Speaker 17 (46:51):
Oh right.

Speaker 16 (46:51):
Our show's part of the PW torch Daily Cast lineup
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Speaker 4 (47:15):
Mike appreciate the call. We're gonna keep going on through
phone calls in the last eighteen minutes of the show
and a rapid fire you thrill. Let's go to the
four two four eerie code four two four. Welcome to
the show. Please sit your name man, where you're from?

Speaker 6 (47:28):
Hi?

Speaker 13 (47:28):
This is Barron from California.

Speaker 4 (47:30):
Hey, Brian, were that first set?

Speaker 13 (47:32):
You know what, I really think I have too comments.
I really think it's the PG product that's killing the
ratings because you know, people can say whatever they say
about PG is not that bad. But me like sexual
content and fighting. That's what we like. You know, when
we flip the channel, if we see some if we
see fighting, we watch. If we see something sexually if listen,
not that not that like overly nuty, nudy type things.

(47:55):
But we watched and I think it's a product. It's
time to where the PG product is. The numbers don't lie.
It's killing the product. And in the pay per view box,
you're putting people you people, we're putting people against people
in the pay per views that they just don't match up.
Even you can put you can have a million storylines,
but there's no way you can make certain people look

(48:16):
even you know, in the paper view you can't make
and and that's where boxing and Emma are starting to
catch on because you're looking at something that looks like
two even fighters. But in WW they hold certain people
like Randy or Interpolations to a certain stature and other
people they go against to an old statue. So when
you watch them, even though a storyline, you try to
build an up. We know as fans, I'm talking about

(48:36):
the people that have like maybe sixteen seventeen year old
and older and thirties or whatever. You know what the
deal is with those wrestlers. And you can you can
fool the kids, you know, the five, six, seven, eight
year olds, but you know the older demographics are the
ones that's buying the pay per views. We're the one
that's buying the tickets at the box office and everything,
and I think they have to go a little bit
less PG, and it's hurting. I think it's hurting Randy

(48:57):
Orton's character because Randy Orton's character is not a PG
character like when Datista was there. He doesn't have a
PG character. And I think it's the commers's talk about
his character is not a PG character, and I think
it hurts.

Speaker 3 (49:09):
It hurts.

Speaker 13 (49:10):
It's hurting them a lot right now in this pgre Yeah.

Speaker 4 (49:14):
I mean those two points are order and edge. I
totally agree with you on that. The the issue to me,
though it's not necessarily PG. To me, it's the shift
from wrestling entertainments obviously, you know, has been sports entertainment forever.
You know, they pretty much invented sports entertainment. But there's
been such a shift away from the basic storyline, the

(49:37):
basic the basic wrestling marketing, uh, just the basics of
marketing and wrestling. I think that's the issue more than
PG PG Third teams. Yeah, they need to have they
need to go back to wrestling and what sells wrestling
as matchups, competition chases for titles, stars who go out
there and and look at they put it on a fight.

(49:57):
It's a simulated competition right now, it's too much emphasis
on on the Koby roads, you know, the dashing good looks,
and that's a good mid cart heel gimmick. But I
feel like that's just all across the board. It's just
too much of this pretty boy stuff. It's too much
of the the entertainment. And does Michael Cole, you know,
how does Michael Cole feel about you as a character

(50:19):
rather than can you go out there and kick butt?
I mean, it's so funny to me that this was
captured in that first match on the pay per view
last night, Daniel Bryan's out. I mean literally the moment
that Dane Bryant smashed Todybox in the face with what,
you know, what looks like a stiff shot. I'm obviously
it was a work shot, but the way he was presented,
it looks like a stiff shot. And Michael Cole goes, man,
I don't see what people seeing this guy?

Speaker 6 (50:42):
I do.

Speaker 3 (50:42):
He just kicked the guy in the face.

Speaker 4 (50:44):
You know, he's a legit fighter. That's why he's presented.
It's just too much of this entertainment just I mean, great,
people are quite more about this. To me, it's not
it's not the PG, it's the lack of emphasis on
basic wrestling marketing principles. So great. What's your reaction to

(51:04):
what Brian brought up?

Speaker 5 (51:07):
I think the PG product is not something you can
slowly blame the ratings and buy rates. I think the
economy is hurting the buyer raids still. I think, you know,
the competition for ratings on cable in general is so
much stronger than I ever was before, and I think
that's taking a track out of the ratings. So I

(51:28):
think it's you can't just blame one thing on the
fall in ratings and the fall of buy rates. You
can't just blame it on the PG product and say,
if WW goes back to you know, being edgy and
you know what they were in the late nineties, then
all of a sudden, everything's going to go back to
where it was. The numbers are going to go back up,

(51:50):
shoot right.

Speaker 4 (51:51):
Up for paper view buyas ratings.

Speaker 5 (51:52):
I think that's kind of a faulty argument because there's
so much there are so many different factors that go
into it, and I think everybody has their own reasons
for why they're not buying people watching RAW, and I
think if you have to hundred people, you come up
with for any different reasons. So I don't think you
can solely blame it on the PG direction. Is that
one of the issues right now? I think so.

Speaker 4 (52:15):
But PG hasn't done TG for that.

Speaker 5 (52:19):
Long in the grand scheme of professional wrestling. I think
it's only been you know, the year and a half,
two years, maybe a little longer than that. Even so,
you know, that's that's a short time in business sense
to see if something's working.

Speaker 18 (52:32):
You know.

Speaker 5 (52:33):
Obviously, w W probably not completely happy with their buyer
rates now, probably not terribly happy with their.

Speaker 18 (52:39):
Ratings though that.

Speaker 5 (52:40):
I don't feel like they're they're bottoming out or anything
like that. But I don't think. I don't think there's
a magic switch, you know, to turn and say, Okay,
if we stop the PG, you can go back to
what we used to be doing. That that's gonna solve everything.

Speaker 4 (52:56):
Yeah, I mean, they were this business downturn. I mean
there's still I mean, they're okay, they're healthy, but the
business downturn began well before PG. I mean it happened
the end of two thousands, started the beginning to two thousands.
It was noticeable in four and oh five, did a
slight rebound in about six seven, and then the downturn

(53:18):
really began in eight before they went pgs. So I
don't try to the PG specifically. Obviously, it's, like you said,
one of many factors that's influenced the overall product and
why people aren't buying it. But I don't think you
can just chuck to the PG only. But I think
there's certain there's something. You know, Brian's out of some
of the violence acts butt. I wouldn't say violence specifically

(53:39):
because P and A is doing that and the ratings
are terrible. I think it's just the lack of competition.
The lack of simulated wrestling action is a factor, and
I would say the lack of build up to see
matches on pay per view is part of that factor
as well. Brian, appreciate the call, Uh, appreciate the contribution there.
Let's go to the nine oh five years code Night

(54:01):
oh five. Welcome to the show. Appreciate your name and
where you're from.

Speaker 15 (54:04):
This is Dan in Hamilton, Ontario.

Speaker 4 (54:07):
Hey, Dan, what's going on today?

Speaker 15 (54:09):
I know, uch, I just I watched the pay per
view yesterday and I'm just really, this is my first
time calling.

Speaker 4 (54:15):
By the way, I love you guys, Showy appreciate it.
First time, no problem.

Speaker 15 (54:20):
Uh So I'm watching the pay per view and I
just I'm just so sick of his product and what
they do basically to the hometown fans. M VT was
the most over guy in the building and he's the
first guy out of the match. I mean, they did
the same thing to Daniel Brian in Seattle. I mean, why,
why did he do this? Why can't they just send
the fans will happy he could have. He's been the

(54:42):
last guy eliminated. They seem lost the match anyway.

Speaker 4 (54:45):
I just don't get it. But but Rayon Big Show won.
So weren't you happy that or didn't you have a
feel good feeling after that? I'm gonna come on, what
do you want? Yeah, I know, I know what you mean.
It's just sort of that. It's that, uh. I mean, Greg,
what do you chalking up to? I mean, Jim Ross,
anytime he's on TV in Oklahoma, it's not a good thing.

(55:06):
I think that Phoenix was on was on TV and
Buffalo a couple of times, and she like, I don't
remember what it's just something not something good, something good
didn't happen, or she was him on the show or
something like that. But Greg, what do you chalk it
up to with the would be sort of mind games they.

Speaker 5 (55:20):
Play well with Jim Ross, you can just blame it
on you know, Vince mcman's you know, being desire too
to be vestment manna to make fun of Jim Moss
and his on Hometown. I don't know that that extends
the entire roster, but uh, there's certainly our clues that,
you know, if you had them together, you can you
can make the argument that w W doesn't treat wrestlers

(55:42):
very nicely in the hometown. With m v P, it
could be that it could be the fact that, hey,
he's been kind of in and out of the doghouse
as of late.

Speaker 9 (55:50):
Uh, you know, he.

Speaker 5 (55:51):
Seems to be picking up a little more momentum on SmackDown.
He had a pretty big win this past week on SmackDown,
so it looked like he was kind of getting back
to the spot he was at the spot he's been
out where he's you know, a secondary title contender. But
this could have been just way too you know, this
could be completely unrelated to the fact that they're in Miami.

(56:13):
Sure it looks suspicious, but you know, he hasn't been
a very strong character as of late, so it's not
completely surprising if they did that in any town other
than Miami. I don't think people would even bad an
eye because you know, he's not at that level yet.
I mean, I guess the big thing is that Chris

(56:34):
Masters lasted longer in the match than MVP, and I
think that's what, you know, maybe a lot of people
have a problem with and I can understand that argument,
but I don't know if last time was so much
about being in Miami as it was that m VT
is just.

Speaker 4 (56:47):
Should try to be.

Speaker 5 (56:49):
Thankful to have a paper view match at this point,
and so.

Speaker 4 (56:55):
Yeah, I think it's one of those ego check ideals.
You know, that might be a maybe How does MVP
react backstage? You know, he's pretty outspoken. How is he
going to react to being the first one eliminated? I mean,
he was eliminated what five minutes in? I mean, but
at the same time, he did get over his finishing movie.
He was able to do the the ball and elbow drops.
That's how that would we would rationalize it. Well, you know,

(57:15):
he got over his finisher, so you know, now everybody
got their finisher in, although ex Swager got his over
pretty well in that match. So I don't know, I've
just seen it's one of those one of those sort
of things that they do that Ben flakes to do
the test people, and that's kind why I shocked that
up to a m VP. But we'll see. Who knows
that'd be old win the title on Tuesday at the taping.

(57:36):
Who knows? You never know. Appreciate the call, Dan, glad
you have on to have you on the show. Let's
go to the five to five nine eerie code five
five to nine. Welcome to the show. Please state your
name and where you're from.

Speaker 19 (57:48):
Yeah, this is Steven, California.

Speaker 4 (57:50):
Hey Steve, what's going on today?

Speaker 19 (57:53):
There's not much time, just kind of going back to
the first topic in this evening about wrestling styles. How
much trouble Spinny would like caval and Daniel O'Brien get
if they had a match together on pay per view
and they just totally.

Speaker 20 (58:05):
Win all Ring of Honor on each other for twenty minutes.

Speaker 4 (58:09):
Interesting question, Greg, what's your take?

Speaker 5 (58:12):
Well, it depends on a lot of things. It depends
on how they laid out the match with the agent and.

Speaker 10 (58:16):
Get the agent approved it, because if he did, then
he'd be the.

Speaker 5 (58:19):
One getting in trouble. I'm not Brian and caval I
don't see them getting twenty minutes. So I'm assuming that
they would be, you know, breaking the time limit that
they had on the match and going twenty minutes. Then
yesterday would be getting in deep trouble along WW a
lot of them ten minutes twenty minutes to go, which
would kind of shock me a little.

Speaker 10 (58:39):
But I've been stripped before.

Speaker 5 (58:40):
By WWE, so you know, I think that would be
something great. And I also think it would steal the
show away from the main inventors, which would upset them,
and I think that's probably why you're not going to
see something like that. Guys like Cavall and Brian, I
think they know their place in WWE right now, and
I don't think they want to upshit the balance by
doing something like that, going off screen so to speak,
and putting on that kind of mass. They're kind of

(59:02):
finding their time to see if the spot o because
up like like everybody is. I mean, everybody watched that
made the had spot and you know, these don't want
to do.

Speaker 7 (59:09):
Something, didn't jeopardize it.

Speaker 5 (59:11):
So I think the fact that uh, you know, we're
getting what we are at it in ten minutes pay
per view matches is where I'll be happy with right now.

Speaker 4 (59:22):
Yeah, it's kind of like what what Wake Keller said
in the roundtable yesterday is that it's almost surreal that
Daniel Bryan and Cabal, two guys you associated Ring of Honor,
we're on one of the big four pay per views
in title matches last night. You know, you know, November
two thousand and nine, you never would have thought that.
You know, here you are a year later and these

(59:43):
two guys are in a pay per view in title
matches that were obviously they weren't hyped very well, but
they were focused on they were It wasn't they were
given you know, three minutes and Neck just ran in
and interfered. You know, they both got about ten minutes
of pay per view times. So you know it's just
you know, like you said, right, I'm happy with where
they are right now. What they would like to see
them eventually have, you know, a semi main event match

(01:00:06):
with something on the line. Yeah, that'd be awesome. But
just that we get to see some different quality wrestling
on pay per view, I think it's a thumbs up
right now. It's kind of the it kind of fills
out slaughter the you know, the Chris Jericho Raymond serial
matches and you know what was it, Dolphin ray had
a couple of good matches and kind of fills that
slaughter of the good quality of wrestling, the undercard that

(01:00:27):
that w has now, and that's you know, that's a
good thing. I'm not going to complain about that. So yeah,
so good call, Steve. Appreciate that we keep trying to
get as many phone calls in last five minutes of
the show. Before live coverage of Raw tonight, let's go
to the nine to one O eere code nine one oh.
Welcome to the show. Please get your name in where
you're from? You knowing Bruth and Wave? Hey, Hannibal, it's

(01:00:51):
actually James and Greg. But we're good. What's what's going
on you?

Speaker 18 (01:00:55):
Okay?

Speaker 2 (01:00:56):
Yes, okay, okay, yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:00:57):
The question I want to ask though this right here?

Speaker 13 (01:00:59):
Okay, who was it the w W you know, how
ed you know Dragon Gaate us A, you know, current
president Gay w w E.

Speaker 4 (01:01:09):
You know, I think he's not a Hollywood writer, So
he's not a B or C level Hollywood writer. He
has that against him. He has that stigma of being
a sort of a what would you say, drag? What
kind old stigma do you think that he has. I mean,
first of all, that does he's.

Speaker 5 (01:01:26):
The stigma of being a wrestling guy and not a
TV writer. I mean, that's one of the problems.

Speaker 4 (01:01:30):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (01:01:31):
The other problem is, I don't know that Gay would
be interested in that kind of job right now. I
think he's kind of happy going against the grain and
professional wrestling and doing what he's doing and trying to
put on the best wrestling shows he can. And he's
not gonna be able.

Speaker 3 (01:01:44):
To do that in w W.

Speaker 4 (01:01:46):
Yeah, we know that. Do you think a w W
knows who he is? I mean, I mean people obviously,
people like Koping know who he is. But if really
gonna have the the the top inner circle, I'm talking
gonna make Man's Hunter, those those sets, to me, did
they know who he is? Or do you either familiar
at all with his work?

Speaker 5 (01:02:03):
I can think that I'll be familiar with him on
some level. I don't know what what level that would be, but.

Speaker 13 (01:02:10):
I have to believe that they're aware of who's out
there as far as power structures.

Speaker 5 (01:02:14):
And companies in pro wrestling, So I would be surprised
if they didn't at least know a little about him.

Speaker 4 (01:02:22):
Yeah, Yeah, Hannibal appreciates the call. Please call it back
again later on this week. We're just can't try to
get to two more phone calls. Last two minutes of
the show. Let's go to this six three one area
coache six three one, Well from the show. Please say
your name and where you're from.

Speaker 21 (01:02:36):
Hey, it was going on though? This is a Will
from New York.

Speaker 4 (01:02:39):
Hey, Will? What's going on today? I got like two quick.

Speaker 21 (01:02:43):
Comments and I have a question for you guys. First off, Greg,
how day you ruined Christmas for me for saying Santa
Claus is a real That's Number two?

Speaker 5 (01:02:50):
This time to grow up? This is this is a
blog talk radio show for growing up.

Speaker 4 (01:02:54):
Sorry, bud Man, that hurts my feelings.

Speaker 21 (01:02:56):
But do you see sena basically folloween to WW around
quote unquote buying a ticket and being a nuisance that way?
And number two, what's the odds of seeing since the
Hall of Fame is going to be in Atlanta and
people are kind of talking about a WW team Hall
of Fame, the odds of seeing like a New Age

(01:03:17):
Outlaws DX invasion during the Hall of Fame. That's about it.
I'll leave you guys to talk about that and I'll
talk to you guys later.

Speaker 4 (01:03:23):
All right, Well, we're appreciate the call.

Speaker 9 (01:03:25):
Greg.

Speaker 4 (01:03:25):
What's your take on w CW and John Cno Disease?
Do the ticket buying thing to be back on TV
like we talked about?

Speaker 5 (01:03:34):
I think they could. I mean, like I said, do
you almost have to find a way to get him
on TV without admitting that he's letting quote unquote back
on or a part of the WWE roster. So I
wouldn't be surprised if they went that direction with us.
I think the Hall of Fame is a bit of
a sacred cow or at the night off for angles gimmicks.
I don't think any kind of interference for anyone during

(01:03:55):
the ceremony.

Speaker 4 (01:03:56):
Yeah, maybe like raw beforehand, I can see maybe been
doing some of that, dude, you know, just creat more
interests or buzz around WrestleMania, or perhaps doing something at
WrestleMania involving the Hall of Famers. I don't think during
the actual Hall of Fame ceremony. I don't think they
would do anything like that.

Speaker 6 (01:04:12):
But you never know.

Speaker 4 (01:04:14):
You never know what they might try to do before WrestleMania,
or at WrestleMania or coming out of WrestleMania. Uh will
could hear from you? Let's go all today from the
seven eight six earing goes seven eight six. Welcome to
the show. Please say Trenamian where you're from? I Johnny
fro Dallas, Texas. Hey, Johnny, I was trying to listen
in today, but I got to pick the one woman

(01:04:35):
to take.

Speaker 13 (01:04:36):
But hey, I'm from Miami and I gotta say the leaves.

Speaker 5 (01:04:40):
Topping the ball with MVP because he's got that attitude
that everybody from AMMI has.

Speaker 4 (01:04:44):
With that song that he found that he has, that's
the same attitude everyone after that crowd pops so big
for him.

Speaker 13 (01:04:49):
I mean a shot that.

Speaker 4 (01:04:50):
Treated it that way. Yeah, I mean I I just
you know, Greg, like you said, that would be just
they don't. I don't think they see him as ANVA
player yet, I mean not even yet.

Speaker 6 (01:05:02):
I just at all can I Christian I me just
he's at that same.

Speaker 4 (01:05:06):
Level as Christian's at and for better or for worse,
but giant appreciate the call.

Speaker 6 (01:05:12):
We'll leep on that note.

Speaker 4 (01:05:13):
Thanks again for everyone. Join us in a live cat today.
Join Wade and Jason Palell on Tuesday talking about tonight's
Ronald live coverage. I'm p tobtorch dot com. Starting now.

Speaker 1 (01:05:23):
If you missed it earlier, just a reminder, we're running
limited time offer. Take nine dollars off a VIP subscription
V twenty twenty five as in November n V twenty

(01:05:43):
twenty five, and that takes nine dollars off. When you
check out on our sign up form pw torch dot
com slash go vi ip give you full details on
membership benefits and links to our sign up form.

Speaker 4 (01:06:14):
Welcome to the PW Torch Live cast.

Speaker 9 (01:06:16):
I'm Wade Keller and it is Thursday November twenty fifth,
twenty ten, It's Thanksgiving. Happy Thanksgiving to everybody. We are
live for a few minutes before we go to a
very special edition of the PW Torch Live cast, and
uh because I've got dinner waiting for me in a
few minutes. But if you want to call in for

(01:06:36):
the first five minutes or so here.

Speaker 4 (01:06:38):
We welcome you to do so.

Speaker 9 (01:06:39):
We'll take a couple of calls if we get them.
The number to call at six four six seven two
one nine eight two eight, and you can get back
to the uh well, if you're watching it. If you're
taking the NFL game, which I can't imagine you are,
but NFL spoiler alert. If you want to get back
to the seventeen to ucking blowout of the Saints and Cowboys, uh,
feel free to do that, but hopefully we'll keep you

(01:07:02):
entertained here on the live cast. I'll let you know
what we're going to air in place of the rest
of the live show as our kind of special Thanksgiving
edition of the live cast. And that is a flashback
to my radio show Pro Wrestling Focus back in nineteen
ninety one. This same weekend nineteen years ago, a discussion

(01:07:24):
about the Survivor series and the results of the show
and then multiple roundtape are multiple journalists on wrestling journalists
on to talk about the event. It includes Larry Katz
I believe, who did a radio prosing radio show down
in Baltimore, and also I believe Dave Malter and Alex
Marvez for more of roon Tablescusion, and I Thinkchrisavisa's on

(01:07:45):
there too. I looked at so many archives trying to
decide which one to put up. Today is kind of
a special flashback. By the way, those flashbacks are available
for VIP members if you do sign up for a
VIP membership. The just click on the or the VIP
Audio Archives link on the main page at the top
where all the VIP buttons are, and then there's a
listing called shows by category on the left menu, and

(01:08:07):
if you slide down to the category called Vintage Keller
Radio Shows. We've got a lot of these old radio
shows available. I'm not sure how many of them are here,
but quite a few. So that is a place to
go if you're a VAP member and you enjoy this.
If you enjoy the show and you're not a VPP
member but you want to hear more old editions of
the Progressing focused radio show. We had the show on

(01:08:28):
in the early nineties, did live calls, live guests, similar
formats of this show where we talked about current events
and analyze them with wrestling reporters from the Torch and elsewhere.
You're certainly welcome to become a VFP member and check
that out. Place to go for a VIP membership is
pw Torch dot com slash go VIP. I am looking
forward to hearing feedback from what you all think of

(01:08:50):
this nineteen years ago flyback. I think they'll enjoy the
heck out of it. It's my voice hosting the show
nineteen whole years ago talking about a lot of the
wrestling scene at that time. A couple headlines today before
we take a couple of calls and then go to
that archive, The Rock or I'm sorry. Dwayne Johnson's movie.
The returns are in for his live action movie which

(01:09:12):
debuted in theaters last night. The movie names are called Faster.

Speaker 4 (01:09:16):
It opened at number six.

Speaker 9 (01:09:18):
Among all movies on Wednesday. It was number four among
the four major movies that were released last night other
move and it opened to one point six million dollars,
which is a disappointment, no doubt about it. Other movies
that opened on Wednesday eleven point six million for Tangled,
two point eight million for Burlesque, and two point two
million for Love and Other Drugs. It also lost to Unstoppable,

(01:09:40):
which came out two weekends ago. Joanne Johnson appeared on
the Thanksgiving coverage of the Patriots Detroit Lions NFL game
earlier today to drum up interest in the movies. So
not a good start for the Rocks. Certainly disappointing. I
think disappointing. I would hope that they had higher expectations
for that, but I think after Rock had been in
some family movies for a while, you know, you go

(01:10:01):
on or you go on the USC pay per view
and plug it and you have the ads running on
raw and all that. I mean, they did some advertising,
but I just don't know that it's the type of
movie you're most likely to go out and see. I'm
not a movie expert, but it just seems like kind
of an odds fit for Wednesday night before Thanksgiving. So
in that realm, maybe it'll do better the rest of
the weekend and next week. One other news I don't

(01:10:22):
talk about the WWE has updated their lineup for their
next MSG show. This is a day after Christmas Monday,
number twenty sixth. Two significant changes the addition of a
piper's pit with Miz being interviewed. I'm sorry, I got
that wrong. The mis pipers pitt'll have an interview, but
also Miz has been inserted into the cage match main event.
It'll be a four way steel cage match. They're also advertising,

(01:10:45):
as we talked about yesterday, Juan Sena, the Mexican cousin
of John Cena, in the lineup. It now features the Miz,
Randy Orton, Juan Sena, and Wade Barrett in a four
way cage match. They've also said Michael Cole will be
in attendance give messages from the raw GM. I'm sure
Michael Cole loves having to get up the day after
Christmas to drive to New York. It's just a drive

(01:11:06):
for him. But or no, no, actually that's a fly
in from Texas. I think he lives in Texas now
and fly in the day after Christmas to go be
a GM at MSG.

Speaker 4 (01:11:14):
I don't know, maybe he likes it.

Speaker 9 (01:11:15):
Also, twelve Man Battle Royal Mark Henry Versus Shanas in
a street fight, Goldas versus Debase, Justin Gabriel when he's
Slater against Santino and koslow Ezek Gilligains, Zach Malina and
e versus Alicia and Maurice and a Senis Helper Divas
tag match. I don't know if it tells us a lot.
Obviously they liked Roddy Piper's performance and that's why they
brought him back in for MSG, and he's got a

(01:11:36):
history there and might help draw. So I think it's
great that they're giving Piper a pay day. I think
he earned a return to WWVTV in more ways after
that performance a week ago Monday. And as far as
Miz being inserted into the match, I mean, it kind
of indicates that this isn't going to be a one
week title reign for miss. Doesn't guarantee he'll have the
title then, but it means he's going to be in
that main event mix. I don't know that they would
have got into trouble to add him to the lineup

(01:11:57):
if they were going to have to lose the title
in a week or two in the meantime, maybe they
would have. But I think it's a positive sign from
me that they're not going to pull the rug out
from under him right away. All right, we got a
couple of people on hold. As I said, I'm going
to run upstairs and finish preparing helping prepare dinner. And
I've got to eat in about twenty five minutes with
the family, so I've got very limited time. But I

(01:12:18):
do want to take a couple of calls here on Thanksgiving,
and we'll begin with Eric Ode four to Ozho, thanks
for calling on the holiday. Please state your name and
where you're from.

Speaker 18 (01:12:25):
Hey, Thanksgiving away. It's a friend from Phoenix.

Speaker 4 (01:12:27):
How are you, hey, friends, how you doing?

Speaker 2 (01:12:29):
I'm good.

Speaker 18 (01:12:31):
I just cut off work myself, and I asked this
in the Bruce Mitchell Audio Show area. But I think
it's appropriate. When the Survivor series EGG was going around
from place to place, what did you guys think was
actually in it?

Speaker 3 (01:12:47):
Because I heard some rumor a long time ago, and
you know, I think I was thirteen years old that
there might be a new WWF title in there, because
you only had the world title in the Intercontinental title
and UCWWUS titles the television title, and I thought, Greggs,
they're going to elevate someone else and have a third
tier or something.

Speaker 20 (01:13:07):
That can seek more.

Speaker 3 (01:13:09):
And then this thing and then you know, Gobbly Joker
came out and I was like, soda freshed.

Speaker 18 (01:13:13):
But was there any talk of that? Did you ever
hear that rumor or anything that you might stop was
in it?

Speaker 4 (01:13:19):
You know?

Speaker 9 (01:13:19):
I think that was among a lot of rumors we
heard at the time, if I remember right. The longer
that the longer that people talked about that, and longer
it went on, the more that we caught ourselves going,
they can't have something serious in it. I mean, it's
an egg you know. It's like there's who would want
to debut how would you date? It'd be like the
worst way to debut something on a serious level would

(01:13:41):
be doing this kind of egg thing. So I think
we started bracing ourselves for it to be something comedy oriented.
I'd have to it was long enough ago. I'd have
to go back and look at my back issue to
see in the week leading up to the event, if
I had made a final pick on it. But I
remember that there was a general feeling that it was
going to be ridiculous or that WWDA know what's going
to be and they're going to have to figure it

(01:14:01):
out at the last second, but I think we were
all prepared for something slapstick oriented.

Speaker 18 (01:14:06):
Wow, well that's all I have today. And also, no,
I appreciate I appreciate all the entertainment you've given me
this year, and anyone going thinking about v IV I mean,
just you get incredible bang for your buck and thanks
for being very accessible.

Speaker 10 (01:14:21):
Appreciate it.

Speaker 9 (01:14:22):
I appreciate every friends very much. I appreciate your support
and your kind words really means a lot. Happy thanks,
thank you. All right up next, ery code was coming
up at as Erico two hundred could be an international call.
Go ahead and stay you name and where you're from?

Speaker 2 (01:14:36):
High waited, so I don't want to say it. Quing
from Israel, Hey, how you doing good here?

Speaker 4 (01:14:40):
For this is great and I am.

Speaker 22 (01:14:45):
I'm excited to see queen from Israel come. The Beast
is ready, Kuda, and I that see how disappoints I
am the choice to go with miss is the champions,
and I think that WR should have gone with a
waite Barat and back up by Nexus. So I think
that they're really missing an opportunity to to cast size

(01:15:05):
on like a unique booking situation, and I think they're
just games. I think it should have been saved for
for a bit longer news Wade Barret while he's still
read to be hot before eventually he gets his come upance.

Speaker 9 (01:15:19):
I I because of the phone connection, fitting in and
out just a little bit. I cut quite a bit
of what you said, but not everything. Restate what your
question is for me, and I think I can come.

Speaker 4 (01:15:28):
Up with.

Speaker 2 (01:15:31):
Can you hear better?

Speaker 18 (01:15:32):
Now?

Speaker 2 (01:15:33):
I could hear you?

Speaker 9 (01:15:34):
Find you actually just kind of came in and out
slightly during and I last a few key words. I
got a little left now.

Speaker 22 (01:15:41):
I'm just saying that I think that we should have
ut the title because of the fact that he's he's
got nexus behind him. It's never been seen in w
W before, and eventually next to eating because they're hills,
and I think they should have gone with that as
opposed to the mirrors and cashing money in the bang,
which has been done for the last five years.

Speaker 9 (01:16:01):
Very good, a very good point. I mean, I think
it was a legitimate approach to take, and I thought,
legitimately way Barrett might walk out with that belt on Sunday.
I think both with miss and Barrett, there's an argument
whoever you whichever or the two you went with, it
would be too soon, I wrote, and still think it
might be a little early for mis. I think a
lot of the criticism and doubt that we've seen from
Miz at this point indicates that maybe some people are thinking, Yeah,

(01:16:23):
I don't know if we're gonna sa if we're ready
to take him seriously. Yet I think ww we needed
to do more to make him look strong before winning
the title, even if they don't intend to make him
a strong champion. Like Jim Ross wrote, he's a type
of champion whoill eke out wins and then regain his
heat with a promo. I think way Barrett would would
have been taken strangely as a rookie on the main roster.
I think it would have been taken more seriously, and

(01:16:43):
I think it would have helped elevate and give next
to some extra legs to have him.

Speaker 4 (01:16:47):
With the title.

Speaker 9 (01:16:48):
That said, I think will the way to analyze this
is going to be in April, and it's not I'm
not punting on this one, or you know, I'm not
trying to avoid the question or drawing judgment, but we
kind of have to see what they have in mind
between now in Mania, because there could be a very
good reason they don't want Wade Bear to have that title,
which is they want Seeing It to beat them, and

(01:17:09):
they don't want seen It to win the title. Yet
you know, they might have a kind of a plan
in place for we want Seeing It to beat Barrett
in their feud, and then scene it goes on to
maybe Wrestlemanian face Miss Well, if that happens, they don't
want Seeing It to have the title going into Mania.
They want Mania to be Seen a chance to get
his title back. So I'm still I'm kind of open
on it, but I don't think just in a general

(01:17:30):
sense stripping away the circumstances. I like the idea of
wayd Barrett walking out holding the world title with the
taking champions standing next to them. I wouldn't even be
against one of the other members try to win the
US title, you know, winning US title from Daniel Bryan
and have them just be the whole new Horseman monopolizing
the belts.

Speaker 22 (01:17:49):
Hey yeah, yeah, no, No, that's on indiviesteds feoanalysis on that.
But my other question would be why do you see
this currently Sevely British wrestlers in act positions on faith
rostered like, I.

Speaker 7 (01:18:08):
Seen as many.

Speaker 9 (01:18:08):
British wrestlers and why are there so many?

Speaker 2 (01:18:13):
Yeah?

Speaker 22 (01:18:13):
Why do you think now just that this my men
poin like, well, do you think the coolses of it are?

Speaker 9 (01:18:17):
I think I think what happened is I think we've
had a generation of people grow up watching WWE wrestling
as kids who wanted to be wrestlers more than we
had in the past. I think that's one reason. You know,
I mean Drew McIntyre, I mean they grew up watching
wrestling seamous grew up watching ww'. I think the other
issue is WWE's had to scout more internationally to find talent,

(01:18:39):
and English speaking Europeans is a great place to go
to find future top talent and so WW because they
don't have the feeder systems that they did with the
territories and with even w CW grooming talent for him,
I think they've had to look outsewhere for it now
and so I think we might see more of it
over time. I mean, you know, was William regal fit Finley,
Billy Robinson, you know, there's been a few over the years,

(01:19:01):
but yeah, it's a little more plantiful right now, British Bulldogs.

Speaker 2 (01:19:05):
So yeah cool.

Speaker 9 (01:19:06):
Thanks for thanks for calling from Israel's great to hear
from you.

Speaker 1 (01:19:15):
You don't have to wait for the way Keller Pro
Wrestling post show to find out what I thought of
Monday Night Raw and SmackDown. Each week, you can check
out my reports that are updated live throughout Raw and
SmackDown at pwtorch dot com. My written report will tell
you what's happening in detail in case you missed the show,
and it will also analyze key segments and give my
random thoughts quips on what I am watching as it airs.

(01:19:37):
So check it out every Monday night and Tuesday night
at pwtorch dot com. That also applies to WWE pay perviews.
I cover those live at pw torch dot com with
a detailed written report with star ratings, and of course
you can find other TV reports from other contributors to
PW torch such as nxt ROH, Impact Wrestling and more.
Check it out pwtorch dot com your first stop for

(01:20:00):
TV and pay per view written records.

Speaker 9 (01:20:11):
Let's take one more quick call before I go upstairs
and enjoy dinner. It looks like international or Skype. Please
stay your name and where you're from.

Speaker 12 (01:20:20):
Yes, yes, yeah, this is Adam.

Speaker 5 (01:20:25):
I'm from Texas.

Speaker 9 (01:20:28):
Yes, Adam, what's your question for me today?

Speaker 6 (01:20:29):
Happy?

Speaker 23 (01:20:29):
Thank you?

Speaker 4 (01:20:31):
I think Russy's sake, Well.

Speaker 9 (01:20:34):
Thanks for your call on that brilliant note. I want
to thank Alex for his call and go ahead and
move into our special our special bonus here. I don't
know if it's a bonus, but our special edition flashback
going back to the last weekend of November nineteen ninety one.
This is my radio show from that covered the Survivor

(01:20:58):
series back in nineteen ninety one, So enjoy special One
note that you can listen to this live for the
next forty five minutes. The audio file is longer than
forty five minutes, and even though we're gonna go off
the air live within about ten minutes, the entire audio
file will be available in the archives at blog talk Radio,
So it's gonna cut off at exactly the bottom of
the hour in all likelihood, and if it does, feel

(01:21:21):
free to just download the archives to listen to the
rest of it. So possibility that if you're that it'll
carry over live to the wait blog Talk radio works,
but I don't think so. I think in forty five
minutes they'll cut our show off and we'll be off
the air. So go ahead and just download the archive
to hear the end of this radio show because I
think we got about an hour of material here. All right,
thanks so much for joining me again. Happy Thanksgiving everyone,
and until tomorrow when James caldwa will be hosting, same time,

(01:21:43):
same place. This is PW Torch editor Wade Keller signing up.

Speaker 20 (01:21:47):
Splits the chair into the ring and Undertaker picks up
Poe Hogan and pile drives him onto the chair with
the tombstone Pile Driver. Undertaker covers Hogan and three seconds
later is the new World Wrestling Federation Ayweight champions.

Speaker 2 (01:22:01):
Ol Cogan was.

Speaker 20 (01:22:01):
Defeated last Thursday at the Surviver Series at Joe Louiserena, Detroit. Well,
if all the details on that, all the details.

Speaker 2 (01:22:07):
On All the met which is a subscriver series, It's.

Speaker 20 (01:22:10):
Upcoming Tuesday pay per view, and a lot of journalists
roundtable discussion on today's edition of Pro Wrestling Focus. I'm
your host, Wade Tyler, and we're going to be here
from ten until eleven forty five today Talking Pro Wrestling,
and if you have any comments, or any questions or
any response to what is said on the program, you're
welcome to call. And for people who've never seen the

(01:22:30):
Torch before, we'll have a free four issue subscription to
my news letter Pro Wrestling Torch Weekly, a five dollars
value for anybody who's never.

Speaker 2 (01:22:37):
Received the Torch before.

Speaker 20 (01:22:38):
So give us a ring here at the fan phone
nine eight nine eleven thirty or one eight hundred four
four five four six nine five for those of you
outside of the six point two area code. So again,
we'll have free subscription three months worth of subscriptions for
everybody out there who's never seen the Torch. But of
course everybody out there is welcome to give us a
ring at the fan phone. We're gonna be here, as

(01:23:00):
I said, from ten until eleven forty five.

Speaker 2 (01:23:01):
Talking Pro Wrestling, Talking.

Speaker 20 (01:23:03):
Survivor Series, and we'll be talking a little bit.

Speaker 2 (01:23:06):
About your end awards.

Speaker 20 (01:23:07):
Who deserves such awards as Wrestler of the Year, Manager
of the Year, Tag Team of the Year, most Embarrassing
Wrestler of the Year. There's a bunch of categories we're
going to have on Dave Meltzer of the Wrestling Observer newsletter,
formerly columnists with the National Sports Daily and writer for
Sports Illustrated for at least one column and well with
him will be Bruce Mitchell, calumnist for Pro Wrestling Torch Weekly.

(01:23:30):
We''ll be discussing in the second hour for actually the
last forty five minutes.

Speaker 2 (01:23:33):
Of the program, the year end awards. In the first hour, however,
we will.

Speaker 20 (01:23:37):
Be discussing Survivor series, and again we'll be taking.

Speaker 2 (01:23:40):
Your calls and having a journalist around table.

Speaker 20 (01:23:42):
Discussion with Larry Katz, who is a radio show host
in Baltimore, has been for several years I believe now
he's on WCAO on Sunday evenings, and we'll talk to
him in.

Speaker 2 (01:23:53):
Just a moment.

Speaker 20 (01:23:53):
And we'll also have on Chrisavisa, who we had on
one other time on Pro Wrestling Focus, who is an
expert on Japanese wrestling, and he gets spoiled by all
those Japanese tastes to get sent because consistently the Japanese
progresting product tends to be pretty superior to Vincent Mass products.
So well, I'm sure we'll get a cynical view from Chris.

Speaker 2 (01:24:13):
One is Larry. What's that.

Speaker 20 (01:24:17):
DIM's confusing me now?

Speaker 2 (01:24:18):
My producer, But we'd.

Speaker 20 (01:24:20):
Like to thank him from doing that because I'm tired
today this morning, so we're doing at to hank you
on a Sunday morning. You realize that part of my job,
part of my job description here here on paper from
Mark Skins. Let's not get like tourry here with paper
in front of the microphone.

Speaker 4 (01:24:35):
All right.

Speaker 20 (01:24:35):
Well, before we get to any phone calls or talk
to our special guests, bring them on. Let's run down
the Survivor series results for those of you who did
not see the event or would like a refresher course.
In the opening match, saw Rick Lair and Teddy Diasti,
the Mounti and the Warlords take on Roddy Roddy Piper,
the hit Man, Brett Hart, British Bulldog, Davy boy Smith

(01:24:56):
and Virgil that are known to his relatives as Mike Jones.
And in the first he's in the first fall of
the match. Because these are eight man elimination tag team
matches in which if a member of the team gets pinned,
then they're at that disadvantage of fourig and three disadvantage.

Speaker 2 (01:25:13):
It could even be a.

Speaker 20 (01:25:14):
Foreign one disadvantage of three members when the same team
got pinned and the first disadvantage went to the good
guy team is for lack of better words, when Monty
and Flair came off the top rope with a frint
fist to the British Bulldog's head and Flair covered the
British bulldog baby blod Smith's for the pin at eleven
minutes and ten seconds of the first match. The second

(01:25:36):
fall even things out a little bit as Warlord was
thrown outside the ring, where Flaire chopped him against the
rail a few times. Warlord applies with Phil Nelson, then
on Virgil after a tay, but Hart came off the
top rope with a forearm to the back of Warlord's
head and Piper entered.

Speaker 2 (01:25:52):
The ring illegally and got an illegal but.

Speaker 20 (01:25:55):
Official pin on the Warlord. So actually that made it
two on excuse me, left the three on three. Then
in the next pinfall, after ten rams into the turn
buckle by Flair on Virgil, Flair came off the top
rope but Piper excuse me. Flaire climbed to the top rope,

(01:26:17):
but Piper then kicked Flair up.

Speaker 2 (01:26:19):
Off the top rope. And slammed him. Then Piper Flare
swaing into the corner, and as we've.

Speaker 20 (01:26:23):
Seen Flapper do so many times, Flair took that wild
slip over the turn buckle and landed outside the ring.
At twenty three minutes into the match, the referee decided
to disqualify everybody except Rix Flair because when Ric Flair
flipped outside the ring and basically landed, knocked himself out
and laid outside the ring, all other five members started
growing inside the ring, so they disqualified everybody with Rick Flair,

(01:26:46):
and Rick Flair was a sole survivor, representing his team
as the winners. So that was the first match of
the show, and from an editorial standpoint, the action was
very good for about the first twenty two minutes and
it was just about to get rolling with really four
top well it should say three top workers, Work Player,
Teddy Biassi and Brett Hart, and for some reason it

(01:27:10):
ended very quickly and very suddenly without the action that
we're hoping for, with a very strange double count out finish.
Excuse me, yeah, really a double disqualification. So that was
disappointing in that I was just getting ready to see
some good action as where a lot of people have
called the Torch phone line and they were disappointed too.
In the second match, the teams of Starged Slaughter, Hacksaw Dugan,

(01:27:34):
Texas Tornado, Carry Fin Eric and El Matt Tador Tito
Santana were the survivors against Kurni, Mustafa Skinner, Steve Kern,
the Berserker and Hercules. The first ball came at seven
minutes thirty five seconds when Hacksaw, Dugan and Mustafa were
exchanging blows that were about as bad looking as it
can get. Dugan tagged in Slaughter and Slaughter got a

(01:27:57):
quick three count on Mustafa second fall with the baby
Faces with the advantage San Santana to get tagged in
and nailed Hercules as a flying fifth to the face
at twelve minutes and Santana pin Hercules. Baby Faces wrepped
four men on two. Sam Skinner and Santana started exchanging
exchanging punches.

Speaker 2 (01:28:19):
And moves back and forth, but Santana's snuck.

Speaker 20 (01:28:21):
In a tag on Slaughter, who rolled up Skinner for
behind for.

Speaker 2 (01:28:23):
A pin at twelve fifty one, which left.

Speaker 20 (01:28:26):
It four on one. Berserker was a final.

Speaker 2 (01:28:30):
Man in the ring and did not last even a
minute longer.

Speaker 20 (01:28:32):
Before all three men were able to wear him down,
and Hacksaw Dugan after a clothes line, got a pin.

Speaker 2 (01:28:39):
On the Berserker, ending that match in a total.

Speaker 20 (01:28:41):
Of thirteen minutes thirty three seconds, going to a half
star of quality. Not a very very good match at all.
You're listening to Pro Wrestling Focus. We're talking Survivor Series action,
and now we're talking the main event of the evening,
which was the third match on the show, Hulk Hogan
against Undertaker. As I mentioned at the top of the

(01:29:05):
show that saw title change. The match lasted quite a while,
in fact, a little bit too long considering.

Speaker 2 (01:29:12):
The amount of action, just over ten minutes and the first.

Speaker 20 (01:29:16):
Uh five to actually about the first nine minutes. The
crowd was silent and it consisted of mainly chokers, as
Undertaker choking Hulk Hogan.

Speaker 2 (01:29:25):
Undertaker.

Speaker 20 (01:29:26):
However, tombstone tile drove Hogan at one point at about
nine minutes and ten seconds, and it looked like that
was going to be it because nobody, as the announcers
pointed out, has ever gotten up from the tombstone pile
driver of the Undertaker, but Holk Hogan popped up from
it immediately and started his typical superman comeback and at

(01:29:46):
eleven oh five sent Undertakers to his to one of
his knees for the first time Undertaker was taken off
both feet. That was at eleven oh five. However, Undertaker
made a comeback and attacked Hogan and Flair decided to
come to ringside nature broy Rix Blair, who's been fighting Ull.

Speaker 2 (01:30:04):
Coogan across the country as the Arenas and.

Speaker 20 (01:30:07):
Rix Blair stuck a chair into the ring and Undertaker
tombstone piles were of Hogan on the chair. Hogan walked
away groggily, was legitimately taken to a hospital afterwards for
a neck injury and is questionable. I shouldn't say question,
but she use a correct.

Speaker 2 (01:30:24):
Term almost for sure. For Tuesday evening's pay per view, so.

Speaker 20 (01:30:28):
We'll have more details and comments on that world.

Speaker 2 (01:30:31):
Title match, and we'll.

Speaker 20 (01:30:32):
Also have the next two matches, the final two matches
the evening, the details on that.

Speaker 2 (01:30:37):
When we come back, plus your phone calls at nine eight, nine,
eleven thirty or one eight four four.

Speaker 20 (01:30:43):
Five four six ninety five. This is Way Keller's so Wrestling.
Philkus were talking Survivor Series this hour. Welcome Back to

(01:31:07):
bro Wrestling Focus. I'm your host, Day Keller. We're talking
Tovagar Series Action WWS pay per view event from last
Wednesday evening, and we already gave the results that Hulkogan
lost the World Wrestling Federation title to the Undertaker on
Thursday on Wednesday, but there would be a rematch this Tuesday,
which we'll be talking about in detail in just a moment. First,
but first let's run the rundown the final two.

Speaker 2 (01:31:29):
Matches on the event. The fourth match, the second for the.

Speaker 20 (01:31:34):
Third of the eight man elimination tag team matches, saw
the Nasty Boys and the Beverly Brothers defeats the team
of the Rockers and the Bushwhackers. This match was the
longest match at the evening and also, according to many opinions,
was the best last of twenty two minutes twenty three seconds.
The first fall came when Luke of the Bushwhipers taped

(01:31:56):
in and was quickly penned at four to twenty four
with after being hit by a flying shoulder by Brian Knobs,
with the Nasty Boys and Sean Michaels tagged in and pinned.
Excuse me, Knobs pinned Luke Williams, then Bowl Blake of
the Beverly Brothers taked out two. Excuse me, Bo Beverly

(01:32:17):
of the Beverly Brothers, this is a tongue twister taked
out to Blake, but Shannetty Hot tagged Butch of the Bushwhackers,
who closed lined the Beverly Brothers and at nine twenty five, However,
the Beverly's came back, doubled on Butch and then tagged
in Bowl, who pinned Push of the Bushwhackers, which eliminated
both Bushwhackers, which actually left the Rockers at a distinct advantage.

Speaker 2 (01:32:39):
And the next mat or.

Speaker 20 (01:32:40):
In the next fall, Bake Beverly draped Sean Michaels over
the top rope and held his legs as both flew
over and landed on top of Michael's back.

Speaker 2 (01:32:50):
However, Michaels came back and hit Bowl with a quick
backslide at.

Speaker 20 (01:32:53):
Thirteen eight for the pin, so Sean absorbed some punishment
and hit Bol Beverly with the backslide and pinned him,
making it on two. In the next fall, the action
picked up Jeanetti picked up Nobbs for a body slam,
but as he as he turned Knob's feet hit Michaels
in the face with Knobbs's boot. Michaels was quickly rolled

(01:33:13):
up by Thanks.

Speaker 2 (01:33:14):
For a very near pin.

Speaker 20 (01:33:15):
Shawn Michaels, as he has been doing lately, leading to
and eventually an eventual split up of the Rockers, blew
his temper and Janety and Michaels exchanged a few words
in the ring until finally Michaels kind of gave in
and told Janetti to hit back into the ring and
win it.

Speaker 2 (01:33:31):
Win the match.

Speaker 20 (01:33:31):
However, Michaels returned to the locker room and he wasn't pinned,
so sort of left Shawn Michaels there for her to
be attacked by the three Heels, which he was, and
Jerry Thanks pin Mardy Jeanetti at twenty two minutes twenty
three seconds, ending that match and as I said, giving
the win to the Nasty Boys and the Beverly Brothers.
Only Bob Beverley was eliminated from that team. The final

(01:33:54):
match the evening was a three man take team match
because Jake Roberts was not allowed to rest the West
Survivor series because of the incidents in the ring where
he brought in a defentomized defanged Kobra, which bent Brandy
Savage on the arm. So not only was Randy Savage
not reinstated in time for Survivor Series, but in order

(01:34:15):
to eliminate the unfair advantage of a four and three match,
Jake Roberts was barred from Survivor Series, which, since the
dote BF sort of has control of that, maybe grounds
to call your cable company and ask for your money back,
only though, if you were really counting on Jake Roberts.
But as we'll mention in a few minutes, till like
your chance to Jake Roberts Againstrandy Savage.

Speaker 2 (01:34:34):
This two damn pay per view, which the DoD BF.

Speaker 20 (01:34:36):
Was not shy about telling us about during Survivor Series.
The final match then was a three on three tasting
match with a Legion of Doom. First is the natural
Disaster excuse me?

Speaker 2 (01:34:46):
The Legion of Doom and their partner Big boss.

Speaker 20 (01:34:49):
Man against the Natural Disasters and irf the first ball
game at three minutes forty six seconds when IRS in
the boss Man when the referee.

Speaker 2 (01:34:57):
Did not see that the natural.

Speaker 20 (01:34:58):
Disasters interfere on the bo us Man.

Speaker 2 (01:35:01):
IRS swing and suitcase at Hawk but hawk ducks and
Typhoon got hit and was pinned.

Speaker 20 (01:35:06):
At seven minutes ten seconds, evening the score, Earthquake.

Speaker 2 (01:35:09):
Looked at angrily at Irs, and then earthquake.

Speaker 20 (01:35:12):
Followed Typhoon out of the rain, left with Typhoon, leaving
Irs alone against the road warriors. And it did not
take long because at twelve minutes thirty six seconds, talking
animal dispose of Irs, hockpin animal and an anti climactic
end to an anti climactic evening.

Speaker 1 (01:35:29):
If you missed it earlier, just a reminder, we're running
limited time offer, take nine dollars off a VIP subscription
V twenty twenty five as in November n V twenty

(01:35:49):
twenty five, and that takes nine dollars off. When you
check out on our signup form pw Torch dot com.
Slash Go VIP gives you full details on membership benefits
and links to our SINU form.

Speaker 2 (01:36:02):
And that was a pay per view. Those are the results.
We'll get into analysis now. Let's first welcome Larry Katz
of the Baltimore Radio show. Larry, how are you doing, Larry?
We have you on now.

Speaker 20 (01:36:13):
How are you doing, Larry Fie?

Speaker 8 (01:36:15):
Can you hear me?

Speaker 20 (01:36:15):
We sure can?

Speaker 23 (01:36:16):
Okay, how are you doing right?

Speaker 2 (01:36:17):
Not too bad?

Speaker 6 (01:36:17):
Thanks for joining us all thanks to hear from you.
I was talking to some people in Minneapolis, and I
know you've got some bare weather out there. It's about
seventy in Baltimore day, but we've had a ton of
rain the last twenty four hours. I think we're getting
the remnants of its stormy. It's covered your city.

Speaker 20 (01:36:30):
Well, you're not getting it if you have seventy degree weather.
And we don't want to hear about seventy degree weather here, Okay.
I had to all of us here in the twenty
two have had to struggle through a couple of straight
holidays of record snowfall.

Speaker 8 (01:36:43):
So is that right?

Speaker 20 (01:36:44):
Yeah, it's been rough.

Speaker 6 (01:36:45):
Well, the last time we saw each other, it was
in the height of the summer, in the heat of
the summer, rather at Vince's headquarters.

Speaker 2 (01:36:50):
That's right.

Speaker 20 (01:36:50):
Yeah, we both were out there at the site headquarters
in Connecticut, listening to Vince mcmann's.

Speaker 2 (01:36:58):
Conversation, and that was that.

Speaker 20 (01:37:01):
Was certainly a fun tour and quite an experience. Larry,
why don't we first let's the listeners know a little
bit about how you got started doing the radio show
and how long you've been doing it. When when did
you originally get started doing pro wrestling radio?

Speaker 6 (01:37:13):
Okay, the name of the show is Pro Wrestling Talk, right,
and we began I began the show by myself in
July of nineteen eighty nine. I always have been a big,
big wrestling fan, and I always wanted to do broadcasting
and kind of dibbled and dabbled in that in my life,
and I bought the idea to a E give me
a radio station here in Baltimore, and we began at

(01:37:34):
two am in the morning, believe it or not, July first,
nineteen eighty nine. The show took off even more than
I anticipated it would, and they moved us back to midnight,
and then recently we switched stations and we now have
a ten pm slot on Sunday nights. That's the good
news of ages is you know that AM radio is

(01:37:55):
very fragile and very precariously safe, not only due to
the recession, just due to the dominance as that's the
radio and our station has gone to an all gospel
music format. So we're going to have to now hunt
around for a new station, and we may be going
back to our original station. But the show has been
a huge success. Wrestling fans Wade, as you know, are
the most loyal and the most faithful, and we've got
a lot of fun and we love we just love

(01:38:16):
doing the show.

Speaker 2 (01:38:17):
But also just being a monopoly.

Speaker 20 (01:38:19):
As far as the media cover joke, pro wrestling goes
as an inherent advantage and that not a lot of
sources would be it.

Speaker 2 (01:38:25):
Newspapers or radio cover pro wrestling.

Speaker 20 (01:38:28):
So anytime that pro wrestling does pop up on the air,
that radio station has an automatic success, no question about it.

Speaker 6 (01:38:33):
You know, very few major newspapers even begin to cover
professional wrestling in any way, shape or form. I think
maybe Alex Marvez and Miami, and there's a sell in
Detroit and maybe one fell in Washington, and that's about it.
So radio is really a great outlet for wrestling fans
to get their news.

Speaker 20 (01:38:50):
Yeah, there are quite a few columns in the two
three or four columns in the New York market, but
outside of that, yeah, you're right, it's about three in
the United States that actually have weekly columns to vote wrestling.

Speaker 6 (01:39:00):
And it's a shame because it would you know, it
would be you know, the radio shows are so successful,
and I think that the newspaper should consider putting more
articles in the paper because you know, the articles would
be poper they could make more ad revenue. But you know,
a lot of people have their head in the sands.

Speaker 20 (01:39:15):
Yes, we want to remind everybody we have I think
one open line because we just lost Howard from Painesville.

Speaker 2 (01:39:19):
Howard if you.

Speaker 20 (01:39:20):
Want to call back, if you're just connected accidentally, you're
welcome to callback.

Speaker 2 (01:39:23):
But we do have one open line at nine eight,
nine eleven thirty or.

Speaker 20 (01:39:26):
One eight hundred four to four or five or sixty
ninety five.

Speaker 2 (01:39:28):
Will be taking your calls in just a.

Speaker 20 (01:39:30):
Few minutes after the next commercial break. Before we get
to your comments, play your opinions on Survivor series. Let's
welcome Chris to visa Japanese columnist and Annaly, analyst for
Pro Wrestling Torch Weekly. How you doing, Chris, Well, wait,
I think I'm doing okay now that I've recovered from
the Titan Turkey on Wednesday night at Joe Louis, I
think just this.

Speaker 8 (01:39:50):
Morning, I'm beginning to kick back into gear.

Speaker 20 (01:39:52):
Well before before I get to your opinions, I just
want to mention briefly everybody of that Tuesday, we will
get to see more that would be a faction on
pay per view for half the price the Survivor series,
and it will be a better car than Survivor Series,
at least that's what vinsic Man has told people, mainly
because there won't be you know, a lot.

Speaker 2 (01:40:09):
Of promotion for another event.

Speaker 20 (01:40:11):
The main event will be Hulkogan's rematch against Undertaker, and
that's assuming that you know, Hogan makes it you know,
past his neck injury and this legitimate neck injury in
time to wrestle Undertaker. However, there's probably about a ninety
five percent chance that he will be in that match.
The secondary match, which may have the most interesting that
Jake Roberts against.

Speaker 2 (01:40:29):
Randy Savage, and also be Brent Hartk.

Speaker 20 (01:40:31):
Defending his Interact Ento title against the Mounty and Teddy
Vassi and Rico Man versus El Mattador and Virgil and
I'm sure they're putting together the rest of the matches
as we speak. That'll be Tuesday night. The pay per
view event is called This Tuesday in Texas. As innovative
as that, Son and.

Speaker 2 (01:40:49):
I don't know, guys, Larry, I know I talked to
you last night real briefly, and.

Speaker 20 (01:40:54):
Your impression of the show was not too bad. What
do you think of the show overall?

Speaker 6 (01:40:58):
Before we get into specifics, I just thought it was
reasonably entertaining. You know, first of all, I am really
not much of a fan of six man and eight
man tag matches in Battle Royals. I like single and
tag matches, So Survivor Series is probably one of the
big wrestling events that I look least forward to. But
I think all in all, it was a reasonably entertaining match.

(01:41:19):
You know, the the Hogan Undertaker match. I guess it
was a tip of a Hogan match. But I think
the significant point is this way. You know, I had
a chance to have a fairly long conversation with Hulkogan
U in the locker room at the Capitol Center this summer,
and you know, the man is just definitely tired. The
bulk of our conversation centered around his participation in motion pictures.

(01:41:41):
So I think the significant thing from the Survivor series
is we're gonna, you know, really start to see some
different w WF champions as time goes on. The w
w F has a history of having bad guy champions
left for very short periods of time. But I think
all in all, we're gonna see just different people holding
the strap for the w w I just think it's
kind of a significant efense, you know. In general, I

(01:42:03):
just thought the car was reasonably entertaining, you know, as
always the WCW wrestling, you know, is always better. As
a matter of fact, they had a w c W
A card in Baltimore that same night. I didn't go
because I watched the Survivor series, right, and general, I
just thought it was reasonably entertaining, easing.

Speaker 20 (01:42:20):
I think we are seeing both. I think you've got
a really two really good two good points there. One,
I think we're seeing a trend in that the ws
is going to be looking for a long term champion.
So Jill Hokogan shoes. I know Hogan has expressed the
friends that he's getting real frustrated with the business, and
that's very recently and the problem is is the movie
side of his career hasn't gone that.

Speaker 2 (01:42:41):
Well either, so he's.

Speaker 20 (01:42:43):
Hoping for obviously some break somewhere along the line where
he can get out of the wrestling business.

Speaker 2 (01:42:47):
And I don't blame him. He's put in a lot
of years.

Speaker 19 (01:42:50):
And the second point you.

Speaker 20 (01:42:51):
Made was was w CW's having superior wrestling in the
last two events compared to Survivor series have been from
a fan who enjoys the action as opposed to just
sort of a gimmick of seeing kind of the circus
atmosphere of the dot of Ye. Sure, the last clash
in Halloween Havoc. Did he better quality matches? Chris, what
is your impression of the Survivor series overall? I think

(01:43:11):
we kind of got it totally when you first came
on the air. Well, yeah, I want to explain that
I have not seen the tape of the event. I
was Presidential Lewis to see it live and it was
an abysmal show, and that's probably been very charitable. I
thought it was easily the worst big card I've ever attended.

Speaker 8 (01:43:33):
I think what turned me off instantly was when Gene
Okerland came out. He read the message from Jack Conny.

Speaker 20 (01:43:41):
Saying that Savage wouldn't be there. I think there were
over seventeen thousand people in the arena, and while no
one promised them anything, we certainly were.

Speaker 8 (01:43:49):
Led to believe that Randy Savage was going to be
there and restle that night.

Speaker 2 (01:43:52):
Right.

Speaker 20 (01:43:53):
People felt ripped.

Speaker 8 (01:43:54):
Off right at the start, and then we had that
terrible aboarded ending the first tag match, which I thought
was Vince McMahon's way of telling all a serious wrestling
fans that you may think you're gonna see wrestling here,
but I'm.

Speaker 20 (01:44:09):
Never gonna give it to you, and I wouldn't be propressed.

Speaker 8 (01:44:12):
And that point the whole show just went into the toilet.
I can't express the reaction in the arena enough. When
the Hogan lost the main event, people were definitely stunned.

Speaker 6 (01:44:25):
There was a large number.

Speaker 8 (01:44:26):
Of children in that arena, and probably the people that weren't.

Speaker 20 (01:44:29):
Children were parents of Sheldren and there was just a
noticeable call over the entire arena and it never the
show never recovered from that. Yeah, I could tell that
after the Hogan Undertaker match, then they went to inner mission,
and it wasn't that they had a lot to work
with following that either, you know, two ambiguous tag team matches,

(01:44:50):
especially when you don't have Jake Roberts Randy Savage in them.
It's real it's gonna be very tough to follow the
title change. And I thought, personally from that point on,
although Christ you have a better perspective.

Speaker 2 (01:44:59):
Being their live, I thought the crowd was dead and
it was really.

Speaker 20 (01:45:02):
Tough to get them into anything because they really felt
their evening was over and now they're just kind of
getting a poor version of dessert in a wait.

Speaker 6 (01:45:10):
I always think it's a very poor it's a tactical error.
At anytime that have the main event in the.

Speaker 20 (01:45:15):
Middle of the card, I think the one time that
they can justify that is when they're going.

Speaker 2 (01:45:21):
To come back with the rematch the following month, and
they want to announce that to the fans.

Speaker 20 (01:45:25):
So let's say controversy occurs in the World title match,
and then what they can do is come back and
during the after intermission and during the final match of
the evening, maybe that'll be an Intercontinental or a US
title match whatever federation is it is, or a taking
title match, and announced that there'll be a main event.
That way, there's enough time for it to.

Speaker 2 (01:45:44):
Theoretically be signed. This is Wade Keller.

Speaker 20 (01:45:46):
You're listening to Progressling Focus. We're going to come back
with your phone calls and more talk about Survivor Series.
This is Kavans Sports Radio eleven thirty. Welcome back to
Pro Wrestling Focus. I am your host, Day Keller.

Speaker 2 (01:46:03):
We're talking Survivor Series.

Speaker 20 (01:46:04):
We're talking World Wrestling Federation take review, including this Tuesday's
follow up pay review live from San Antonio, Texas. As
we mentioned earlier in the show. In case you're just
joining us, Holkogan lost the World Wrestling Federation title Wednesday
night in Joe Louis Arena in Detroit, Michigan, after Survivor Series,
and we're talking with Larry Cassis, w CEO Wrestle Talk

(01:46:25):
in Baltimore and Chris Evita, columnist for Pro Wrestling Torch Weekly.
Before we talk to them a little bit more, let's
move on to your phone calls and say hello to
Howard from Painesville. How you doing, Howard?

Speaker 23 (01:46:36):
Real good, Wade. I wanted to tell you that I'm
a big fan of your show, but I don't get to.

Speaker 6 (01:46:41):
Hear it that often except when I come.

Speaker 23 (01:46:44):
Home to Painesville because I'm normally way over in the
western part of the state and Morris, but when I
get to see it, I appreciate it.

Speaker 6 (01:46:50):
But one thing I wanted to tell you is, thanks
to you, I have a sports radio show over at.

Speaker 23 (01:46:58):
Our school over at the west part of the state,
at the University of.

Speaker 20 (01:47:01):
Minnesota, and thanks to your show, they've allowed.

Speaker 23 (01:47:05):
Us to at least put a little clip of wrestling airtime,
kind of a wrestling wrap up type of a thing
on our show. Whereas before I thought, oh, that's only
your entertainment, nothing we want to hear here, but people
found out there was.

Speaker 6 (01:47:18):
An entertainment value over there and there.

Speaker 23 (01:47:21):
Was an interest in hearing it. Thanks to you, we
can get it on over there.

Speaker 2 (01:47:24):
Well, I'm glad to hear it.

Speaker 20 (01:47:25):
I hope the chain raction continues.

Speaker 23 (01:47:27):
Yeah, one thing I wanted to ask you about, I
think Vince.

Speaker 9 (01:47:31):
McMahon has some serious.

Speaker 23 (01:47:32):
Guts to follow up with a pay per view less
than a week after the Survivors series and try to
soak the consumer of all the money they've got. I know,
sure it's a reduced rate, but that's just my feelings
on it, and I want to know what your opinion
is about the possibility that the Ultimate Warrior may show

(01:47:53):
up on Tuesday Night.

Speaker 2 (01:47:55):
Well, I appreciate your question.

Speaker 20 (01:47:56):
As far as the Ultimate Warriors showing up, I don't
think the chances that are very good right now. The
Ultimate Order status with Dotabus management is probably severed pretty completely.
As far as him ever returning wcw EVA, even at
this time appears doubtful. No serious talks, if any talks
have occurred, So I would say right now, if it happens,

(01:48:17):
it would be something.

Speaker 2 (01:48:18):
That happened because the promoters didn't know about it.

Speaker 20 (01:48:21):
As far as as far as them having a second
pay per view, I think it is GUTSI and vinsic
Man's part, and he's not holding a gun to anybody's head,
so more power to him if people want to buy
this event. The problem I had was last Thursday or
last Wednesday Night Survivor series, was that he promised a
wrestling event and a three hour wrestling event, and only
about two of it was wrestling. The other hour was

(01:48:41):
a commercial for next this coming Tuesday's two hour pay
per view event.

Speaker 2 (01:48:45):
So I have a problem.

Speaker 20 (01:48:46):
In a pay per view, you pay money to see
promotion with a pay review that should be the final payoff.
But other than that, I thought I think Vincent Matt's
being pretty innovative. Chris, what do you think about the
idea of vinsic Mann going to a second pay per
view and Howard, by the way, thanks yourself. Well, I
think Howard was very perceptively. Then I agree with your comment.
When you run quarterly pay per views, that should be

(01:49:08):
the absolute climax of what you've been doing.

Speaker 4 (01:49:10):
For three months.

Speaker 8 (01:49:11):
That should be the payoffs. Every fan and that arena
should see a conclusion to the various views and angles
that have built up to that point.

Speaker 20 (01:49:19):
The day after the pay per view, then you should
start doing your TV takings to lead up to the
three months built up for the next one. This was
just a total, complete consumer rip off with the fans.

Speaker 8 (01:49:32):
There is no excuse for it. Anybody that orders that
pay per view on Tuesday.

Speaker 20 (01:49:37):
Definitely gets what they deserve. I know, I was talking
to somebody and I kind of compared it.

Speaker 8 (01:49:43):
I said it would be like if you dated the town.

Speaker 20 (01:49:46):
Tramp on Friday night and she says, well.

Speaker 8 (01:49:50):
Back, come back on Tuesday and maybe I'll let you.

Speaker 20 (01:49:52):
Kiss kiss me on Tuesday. Well, if you dated her
on Friday and.

Speaker 8 (01:49:56):
Didn't even get a kiss.

Speaker 20 (01:49:57):
You're not going to come back on Tuesday, And that's what.

Speaker 8 (01:50:01):
I think happened here.

Speaker 20 (01:50:02):
We've seen a terrible, terrible event that didn't give us
what we paid for.

Speaker 23 (01:50:05):
Sorry.

Speaker 20 (01:50:06):
What's your impression of the idea of doing the second paper?
Do do you think it'll be successful?

Speaker 6 (01:50:10):
Well, first of I want to say a lot of Chris.
I don't think we had a chance to say hiy hi, Chris.
I think it's a bad idea. I think that you know,
to put two of these pay per view events back
to back like this is a really poor idea. I
don't think it'll be success. First of all, it's a
Tuesday night, which I don't think is a good night
for a pay per view. Even though it's you know,
it's an early start. I don't think it's gonna work.

(01:50:30):
I think it's just too much, too close together. And
you also have to think, you know, Royal Rumble is
late January. Yeah, and that's that's.

Speaker 20 (01:50:38):
That's coming up really, and Star Kate it's late December,
and Star Kate is late December.

Speaker 6 (01:50:43):
Also is late December. It's in my hometown this year
in Norfolk, Virginia, I think it's a bad idea to
have the said close together. I don't think they're gonna
have a good bye rate. I really don't.

Speaker 20 (01:50:50):
It's gonna be a really interesting experiment.

Speaker 24 (01:51:00):
Are you a fan of AW looking to sit back,
relax and listen to some like minded podcasters who share
your passion? Do you want to be topped off the
ledge after a segment that has you wondering what the
heck are they thinking? Do you want to join a
discussion on what AW is doing right and what they
could do to improve?

Speaker 5 (01:51:17):
Then join me, Joel and me Greg for the All.

Speaker 24 (01:51:19):
Of THEE Conversation Club every Friday on the pw torch
Live Cast. Fee search pw Torch in your podcast app
and subscribe to pw torch Daily Cast or stream our
shows directly from pw torch dot com. Find full details
on the pw torch Dailycast lineup at pw torchdailycast dot com.

Speaker 2 (01:51:46):
Let's go to Roberts from Bloomington.

Speaker 23 (01:51:47):
How pretty good?

Speaker 2 (01:51:49):
Way.

Speaker 8 (01:51:49):
I got a couple of questions for you. Who is
Doobily Cooucker you can show up to share?

Speaker 6 (01:51:55):
And is there anything new on that? Rick Flayer Belt
and I all understand the single.

Speaker 25 (01:52:01):
With having a whole cold and Undertaker building it up
and then having hold it loose because then it's sloading
it again for five days later, which doesn't look like
a good idea, and then I just have.

Speaker 8 (01:52:14):
One more talent.

Speaker 6 (01:52:16):
Would there be a.

Speaker 25 (01:52:16):
Chance the Ultimate Order going to Global Wrestling since he
was down there for a short.

Speaker 6 (01:52:20):
Step, it's a good question.

Speaker 20 (01:52:22):
As far as Ultimate We're going to Global, I would
say not global right now. We had Joe Petsino on
last week and he confirmed that their their financial state
right now is not where they're going to be able
to afford a top star like Ultimate Warrior.

Speaker 2 (01:52:34):
In fact, the talent that.

Speaker 20 (01:52:35):
They do have is not under guaranteed contract, so they're
going to be losing most of it, probably to ww
and WWL, which will hurt them. So I would said
the chances of that are as close to Darrow as
you can get Hogan Undertaker doing the rematch. It's thence
his way of efficiency. He doesn't have to promote two
main events for pay for two pay per views. You
can promote it once and hopefully get two buys out

(01:52:58):
of it for his hard customers. The latest on Flair's
title belt is that Ric Flair. Rick Flair's belt has
been has been digitized on all the television and program
and paper view programs because of the lawsuit he lost
with WCW. WCW actually has possession of the original gold belt.

(01:53:18):
WWF made up a second copy that was originally barred
from being used, so they made a third copy.

Speaker 2 (01:53:23):
The second copy last to hert might now be able
to be used, but.

Speaker 20 (01:53:26):
In the meantime they've made the excuse. Since the lawyers
have told the w BF they can't show the gold
belt because it's no longer there, so they can't use
it to promote it, they have to digitize it to
cover for themselves their saying.

Speaker 2 (01:53:37):
Jack Tunney ruled that since Rick.

Speaker 20 (01:53:38):
Flair is not a recognized champion, his belt can't be
shown on TV. The result will probably be in a
few weeks Jack Toney, Rix Flair pulling some strings and
having that you know over ruling Jack Tunney and Rick
Blair will start wearing the belt, that is, if he
isn't World Wresting Federation Champions soon, which I think he
will be.

Speaker 2 (01:53:55):
By Raa Rumbles.

Speaker 20 (01:53:56):
If if not by that time. Final question you had
was gobledygooker. He was at Throvivors series last year. That
was Hector Guerra last year. This year, there was a
lot of talks that Rick Flair was going to come
out as a gobledy booker and at the last second
stick the chair in the ring for undertaker to pile
drive Hogan on. But Rix Blair just came out in
his robe, so apparently they dropped the whole godledy grooker idea. Robert,

(01:54:18):
thanks for your call. Hey, keep listening. Let's move on
again to Logan from Eden Prairie.

Speaker 2 (01:54:24):
How you doing, Logan?

Speaker 6 (01:54:25):
Very well, Thanks Wade, to really enjoy your show. I'm
just kind of wondering what your theory is.

Speaker 4 (01:54:29):
What will happen Tuesday nights?

Speaker 20 (01:54:31):
What will happen Tuesday Night?

Speaker 2 (01:54:32):
All right?

Speaker 20 (01:54:33):
I think we can get if we can get both
christ and Lair's response on this too. I think Hogan
will regain the title Tuesday Night, but I think Ric
Flair we'll be sure to make his voice known. I
think that's only about a fifty percent shot, though, I'd
say that we have also a chance of some crazy
things happening. I've heard theories that Jack Toney is going to.

Speaker 2 (01:54:56):
Run into the ring when Hogan had about the fifteen
minute mark.

Speaker 20 (01:54:58):
When Hogan and Undertaker are both on the mat just exhausted,
and Jack Tunny is.

Speaker 2 (01:55:02):
Gonna run into the ring, count out both man and.

Speaker 20 (01:55:04):
Declaire himself World Wresting Federation champion. I've also heard that, oh,
you know, Jack Tunney's decisions like they haven't been making
all that much since. Also, there's a chance Hogan won't
make it to the pay per view, or he'll be
injured on the way to.

Speaker 2 (01:55:18):
The ring because Claire attacks him, and somebody.

Speaker 20 (01:55:20):
Like Brandy Savage Sargeant Batter will take his place and
win the title, and then Rick Flair will defeat that
person at Royal Rumble. A lot of possibility is but
I think the best chance of anything happening is Hogan
regaining the title, although I just I'm not really sure that, Chris,
what do you think?

Speaker 4 (01:55:37):
Wait?

Speaker 20 (01:55:38):
I don't think Hogan is going to regain the title.

Speaker 8 (01:55:40):
I think yesterday they dropped us a clue and Jack
Toney said he probably says he's gonna be there at ringside,
So I would expect some kind of dispute, it ending
with with Toney coming in and making one of one
of his comes from his judicial rulings that maybe the
title is held up. One very nasty rumor that I
heard that I tend to believe after viewing the last
month of this promotion, is that nobody's going to be

(01:56:01):
champed for the next two months, and in the Royal Rumble,
they will declare that the winner of the Royal Rubble
gets to be the new champion. Rick Flair will be
the last man in the ring and won't even touch anybody.
Two people will eliminate each other simultaneously, and Rick Flair
will be declared the champion, not having peaked anybody, which.

Speaker 20 (01:56:20):
Which seems to be the way they're promoting him, which
is as the guy who wins all his matches for
doing nothing that's right, and which which is pretty ironic
considering he's the best wrestling the World Wrestling Federation right now.
But it is also ironic when you consider that the
only way that a WrestleMania Hogan Flair match means anything
is that they build up Rick Flair to be truly
the greatest wrestler in the history of the world.

Speaker 8 (01:56:41):
Thus, when Hogan beats him clean in the middle of Indianapolis,
it will mean.

Speaker 20 (01:56:45):
Incredible amounts to haul Cogan and his press speech. To
take Rick Flair and totally devalue his talents in the
ring and present him as somebody who just lucks out
into meeting with victories and then have Hogan beat him.

Speaker 23 (01:56:59):
Is just that goodness?

Speaker 2 (01:57:01):
Yeah, I tend to agree with that, Logan, thanks for
your call.

Speaker 4 (01:57:04):
One more thing.

Speaker 6 (01:57:05):
You're just done seeing the blood in professional ripling?

Speaker 20 (01:57:08):
Are we done seeing blood? As far as WCW goes,
they have ruled no blood.

Speaker 2 (01:57:11):
The Dota Bief has.

Speaker 20 (01:57:13):
Not had blood in their matches except on an extreme.

Speaker 2 (01:57:17):
Exception, for a few years now. I wouldn't say in
general pro.

Speaker 20 (01:57:20):
Wrestling it'll be eliminated because the independent groups, especially the
Philadelphia based Tri State Wrestling Alliance runs by Joe Goodheart,
will probably be very heavy into blood as well.

Speaker 2 (01:57:31):
As Chris Abiasis says.

Speaker 20 (01:57:32):
To Susio Nita's promotion Frontier Martial Arts in Japan, I
think we won't see the total elimination of blood. I
think it will be as much more conservatively though. You know,
I think obviously the references in because of the aids,
the aide scare with Magic.

Speaker 6 (01:57:46):
Johnson's Yes, I'd like to also take a look at
your newsletter if I.

Speaker 2 (01:57:49):
Could, sure?

Speaker 20 (01:57:50):
Can we put him on hold and Tim will get
your address. Thanks for your call, Logan, Okay, let's bring
Larry back on.

Speaker 2 (01:57:58):
Larry, what is your impression of the uh what we're
just talking.

Speaker 20 (01:58:02):
About as far as your prediction for tunes.

Speaker 6 (01:58:04):
But I think that Hulkcan is not going to regain
the belt. I think the Undertaker will well will keep
the belt. I'm seeing the fact that you know said
vicious akaa sug justice being hurt. I think they're really
going to have to strengthen the Undertaker, you know. I
think the w's WS has been looking for a while,
as you excuse the expression for the killer heel, and

(01:58:24):
I think they want to make Undertaker that. I think
they're going to keep him a champion for a bit longer.
I think something will develop a royal rubble, But I
don't think that the Undertak will is the belt on
Tuesday night.

Speaker 20 (01:58:33):
Well, we obviously have a bunch of different perspectives here,
which proves.

Speaker 2 (01:58:37):
That we are very accurate prognosticators.

Speaker 20 (01:58:39):
And there's no question to what's going to happen Tuesday
because we each have come up with about seven different
scenarios that could occur.

Speaker 6 (01:58:45):
I just can't see jack tonnys ws ws WA champion
that way.

Speaker 20 (01:58:48):
You know I can't either, But just just the son
of seeing him and wrestling trust is enough to make
make me vote for it because I went mind seeing
somebody osteroids for.

Speaker 2 (01:58:58):
Once sold that WBS title. Right, Why don't we go
to a break.

Speaker 20 (01:59:01):
And come back and continue talking with Chris Devisa of
Pro Wrestling georch Weekly Larry Katz of Wrestle Talk of
WCO on Baltimore. The numbers are nine eight nine, eleven
thirty and one eight.

Speaker 2 (01:59:11):
Hundred four four five for six nine five. We have
one or two open lines.

Speaker 20 (01:59:14):
Call us here at Pro Wrestling Focus. Welcome back to
Pro Wrestling Focus. I'm your host way teller. We're talking
Survivor series this hour and we're gonna be here until
eleven forty five. But before we go on taking your
phone calls.

Speaker 2 (01:59:30):
And analyzing the past pay review and.

Speaker 20 (01:59:32):
Predictions for next Tuesday so would be a pay per view,
let me mention that next Saturday, we'll be on the
air from seven until nine pm. That's seven to nine
pm Saturday evening, December seventh. Welcome back to Pro Wrestling Focus.

Speaker 2 (01:59:49):
Our second hour.

Speaker 20 (01:59:50):
We're going to be here for the next probably thirty
five minutes until eleven forty five, and we've got packed
phone lines. We're talking Survivor's theory. We planned to talk
to Dave Meltzer, the wrestling Observe and Druce Mitchelle for
a wrestling.

Speaker 2 (02:00:01):
Torch during this hour about year end awards.

Speaker 20 (02:00:04):
But we may say that for another week if these
phone lines he picks keep to stay loaded, because we
want to give you an opportunity to ask your questions,
to make your comments about Survivor series.

Speaker 2 (02:00:13):
Or whatever it is you may want to talk about.

Speaker 20 (02:00:15):
So with that in mind, we have Chris Evista back
and we're gonna have Larry Tasso with us in just
a moment. I know Chris asked me a very good
question while we were on a break, and that is
what happened at Madison Square Garden. That's not great, Chris, right.

Speaker 8 (02:00:28):
I thought it might be an indication if if Hogan
Shall permitted him to show up there last night, if
he's going to wrestle Tuesday.

Speaker 20 (02:00:33):
And that's a very good question. I got a report
yesterday from a correspondent from website's show, and Hogan indeed
did wrestle, which was pretty much assures unless he aggravates
the injury between.

Speaker 2 (02:00:44):
Now and Tuesday, that he will be at the Tuesday
night events. So that's a real good point. The finish
of the match, mister perfect knockout Hilk Cogan with foreign object.

Speaker 20 (02:00:54):
And then Rick Blair got the pin on Hogan and
there are about fifteen thousand people at Madison Square Garden.
It was a fantastic crowd, the best they've had in
a long time, which is expected in New York market
for the first Blair versus Hogan match, and as a
result are as a result of Flair pinning him that
it looked like.

Speaker 2 (02:01:11):
It was world champion. The fans just like crazy.

Speaker 20 (02:01:13):
A lot of New York fans, of course, are going
to be fans of somebody with a style of Rick Flair.

Speaker 2 (02:01:18):
But the referee then.

Speaker 20 (02:01:19):
Noticed the foreign object that Flair had in his trust
and reverse the decision and the title stayed with Hogan.
But I shouldn't even say that, because here I'm talking
about a title that doesn't exist.

Speaker 2 (02:01:30):
The decision almost.

Speaker 20 (02:01:30):
Looks like it was Hogan, but of course the title
couldto because undertaker holds it, so I should correct myself there.

Speaker 2 (02:01:36):
I don't look like Blair Pinhogan. It went to Bend
for the title because of player's.

Speaker 20 (02:01:40):
Or because of hogan blast Wednesday night in Survivor series.
Pogan is no longer championed. So correct myself there. And
we got that result out of the way. So it
does look like Hogan will be there Tuesday, and let's
degorate the injury. Let's go to Bob from Bloomington.

Speaker 2 (02:01:54):
How you doing, Bob?

Speaker 18 (02:01:56):
How you doing?

Speaker 20 (02:01:56):
It's not too bad?

Speaker 2 (02:01:57):
Thanks for joining us here.

Speaker 4 (02:01:58):
I had a couple of questions for you, all right.

Speaker 26 (02:02:00):
First of all, now say something. What happened to Percy
Pringle within the next couple of weeks or something?

Speaker 8 (02:02:08):
Do you think but.

Speaker 20 (02:02:11):
We didn't see it last night at f ANDR was suspended.

Speaker 2 (02:02:13):
Yeah, I got that, yeah from TV.

Speaker 20 (02:02:14):
So he actually has, as a result or vice versa.

Speaker 2 (02:02:18):
Moved down to Florida and he's going to be.

Speaker 20 (02:02:20):
Doing some stuff with some Wrenstom promotions down in Florida.
I haven't know if there's about twenty seventy tenant promotions
in Florida promoting right all over the place to that
around those results every week in the Torch and they're
never ending, go ahead with your second question, Mom, I'm sorry, okay.

Speaker 26 (02:02:35):
I collect wrestling videotape sort of like as a way
of life, and I was wondering, since you seem to
know a lot about wrestling, where's a good place to
pick up like different kind of tapes of like say
the past pay per views, like different type of events
from different places.

Speaker 20 (02:02:50):
Well, on last week's program, we had Steve Gerber WITHZS.
He does the videotape reviews with The Torch, and we
talked about that, and really, I don't know if any
solid source that specializes in sports or wrestling videotapes. I
do know that just the bigger stores, you know, the
Bigelows and Blockbusters, do.

Speaker 2 (02:03:09):
Carry most of the WWS and sometimes.

Speaker 20 (02:03:12):
WCW pay per view events on tape. Another good way
to go about it is through the videotape trading market
or through the newsletters every issue of The Torch. We
always just people who you know, have some of their
favorite TV matches in the past, and there's quite a
market of trading that goes on in wrestling. So that's
another market I should mention a video store. Somebody wrote

(02:03:33):
me in regards to last week's program.

Speaker 2 (02:03:36):
A video store in.

Speaker 20 (02:03:36):
Mankato apparently carries the movie The Wrestler that came out
in nineteen seventy one with vern Gania, which is about
the only place that I've heard that carries that now.
So I can't remember who wrote me. I apologize to that,
but I want to thank them for pointing out that
somewhere in Mankato The Wrestler can be found, and for
some people that may be enough of a clue for
them to go searching one of these weekends.

Speaker 26 (02:03:55):
Okay, And when we're a quick little bit about the Survivor.

Speaker 6 (02:03:58):
Series, Sure what happened to the bully Nick music?

Speaker 2 (02:04:02):
Who with the promotion?

Speaker 20 (02:04:04):
Because he wasn't making enough money with all the expenses
on the road, so make it worth his while to
uh to be on the road so much so he'll
be heading back to the Global Wrestling Federation. Thanks for listening,
bob Let's move to Uh not sure who we have on?
Oh wait, now we can Rick from Opdale?

Speaker 2 (02:04:21):
How you doing? Rick?

Speaker 3 (02:04:22):
Oh?

Speaker 6 (02:04:22):
Pretty good?

Speaker 25 (02:04:23):
Woman?

Speaker 6 (02:04:23):
Has the I got three questions?

Speaker 2 (02:04:25):
Sure?

Speaker 6 (02:04:26):
Has the AWA programs ended on TV now?

Speaker 20 (02:04:29):
AWA shutdown officially?

Speaker 2 (02:04:32):
According to one report.

Speaker 20 (02:04:33):
That I saw about two weeks ago.

Speaker 2 (02:04:36):
I didn't.

Speaker 20 (02:04:36):
I didn't get confirmation, but it was it was a
good It was a reliable publication that said data BA
has officially shut down and their programmings has also ended.

Speaker 6 (02:04:44):
Okay, okay, Now, in my opinions, I'm forty five years
old and I've been watching wrestling and talent here for
quite a while. So is is a wrestling sport so
far gone that we can never expect to see a
wrestling group in which the champion is determined by their
real wrestling ability and not a pre programmed result.

Speaker 20 (02:05:06):
It's it's highly unlikely that we'll ever see pro wrestling
go back to where the best wrestler is the champion.
That not necessarily was ever the case. I mean, wrestle
has always been dictated by who's going to be the
biggest money draw because money talks. But there at least
there at least used to be a certain amount of
respect for the ability that a wrestler had. Nick Blockwinkle,

(02:05:28):
Harley Race, Jack Briscoe, Dorry Funk. These were the most
colorful people in the world. Although Nick Blackwinkle really had
an aura about him, but I mean, you look at it,
Jack Briscoe and or Dorris from junior especially, and they're
very planned people. They got the belts because of their
skill and not necessarily because they want it cleanly in
the ring, but because they work at wrestlers. The promoters
respected that. Will that come back, I hope so to

(02:05:49):
a certain degree. I mean like Sluger has a world
title because he can wrestle as opposed to somebody like
Fan Hamm or Warlord.

Speaker 2 (02:05:55):
But it doesn't mean that.

Speaker 20 (02:05:57):
If Bluger had all the same qualities except that he
wasn't a decent wrestler, that he wouldn't have the health either.
So I would like to see it come back to
those days.

Speaker 1 (02:06:05):
Sometimes we are running our second VIP sale of the year.
You want to take advantage of this. If you've thought
of going VIP or let your sublaps had to step
away for a while, it's a good time to come back.
Pw toorch dot com slash go Vip tells you about
VIP membership. There is a link to our order form
and you can choose a one month or three month

(02:06:26):
subscription and you can take nine dollars off any of
those three options. The coupon code is Nov twenty twenty five,
as in November Nov. Twenty twenty five to take nine
dollars off That brings a one month sub down to
three dollars and ninety nine cents. That is a full
VIP membership that means you unlock nearly four decades of archives,
one hundreds of retro radio shows from the nineties, two

(02:06:48):
decades and more of podcasts on demand, along with an
ad free website, ad free versions of our free podcasts,
and a bunch of VIP exclusive features, including podcasts that
are compatible with the Apple Podcast native app and many
other Android and iobs apps, and also the new wad
Keller news bulletins that come in three formats, a PDF
that's great on a tablet or a laptop screen, an

(02:07:09):
all text version which is great to read on your phone,
and a podcast version. These run about sixteen minutes in
terms of podcast length, and it is a new feature.
I'm running two three four times a week. I'm going
to try to increase that as my schedule adjusts to
this new feature, So check it out. Pw Torch dot
com slash Go VIP coupon code Nv Twenty twenty five
to take nine dollars off a one month, three month,

(02:07:31):
or one.

Speaker 2 (02:07:32):
Year sub.

Speaker 8 (02:07:35):
Okay.

Speaker 6 (02:07:35):
And the third question, what was the alliance between Bockwinkle
and Gunya that Hogan never became the AWAA champ because
I was there for those matches and they just pank
PA Civic Center with Hogan.

Speaker 2 (02:07:47):
On the cart. Vern didn't believe that Hogan was a lasting.

Speaker 6 (02:07:51):
Fad, I believe it or not.

Speaker 20 (02:07:54):
Vernnganny believed to Coogan from everything that I've heard in
every conversation I've had with he, He and Greg is
uh that that he just didn't think Hulk Hogan was
going to be.

Speaker 2 (02:08:04):
A long term champion and he also was going sort of.

Speaker 20 (02:08:07):
Followed the exact thing that you brought up in your
in the question before this one was that Hogan wasn't
a good wrestler at the time and Nick Flackwicker was
and that meant a lot more back then.

Speaker 2 (02:08:17):
And so those were two factors. But in that case,
you know, Vern might have made a mistake, And that's
a good point.

Speaker 20 (02:08:21):
To bring up.

Speaker 6 (02:08:21):
That's why I always said to my friends and says,
they should have made Hogan champion.

Speaker 2 (02:08:26):
Yeah, and if he, if he had, the whole history
of wrestling would have been changed because Vince mc matt
if he was unable to sign Hulk.

Speaker 20 (02:08:32):
Cogan was gonna go with Jimmy Snook as his main
champion when he expanded nationally, and it would have been
a real different game about Hogan and with Jimmy Snook
as your popped raw. Okay, well, thank you very much,
thank you for a conference.

Speaker 2 (02:08:44):
Keep listening.

Speaker 20 (02:08:45):
Let's say hello to Chris again and get.

Speaker 2 (02:08:48):
Your comments as.

Speaker 20 (02:08:49):
Far as that goes as far as champions with skill,
do you see that as as being u the case
in Japan still in that the champion is the guy
with skill or do you see that They so mainly
in Japan even go by who has the most charisma,
who's drawn the most money.

Speaker 8 (02:09:05):
So I think that's a good observation. Way to Japan,
they still do it the old fashioned way. You've got
to earn your titles by working your way up through
the ranks. In fact, you talked about vern as a
promoter a minute ago. Giant Baba in Japan also promotes
in that very conservative style where you're.

Speaker 20 (02:09:21):
Brought along very slowly. You have to earn every run
of the ladder and by the time you get to
be champion and you have definitely earned your strikes in.

Speaker 8 (02:09:30):
And out of that rank, and the champions in Japan
are definitely the best wrestlers who have earned it.

Speaker 20 (02:09:37):
And if you think that's a good trend or a
necessary trend that would help in the United States, or
do you think that at this point it's just sort
of unnecessary to even worry about whether you're a good
wrestler or not, simply because, especially in.

Speaker 2 (02:09:47):
The zhote b F casement, man just sort of has trained.

Speaker 20 (02:09:50):
His fans to be patlov and dogs and follow whoever
he puts in front.

Speaker 23 (02:09:53):
Of him, right, I think you're right about that.

Speaker 8 (02:09:55):
In the WWS, it doesn't matter because they're not selling wrestling,
they're selling cartoon heroes, Come and see the stars, kind
of saying if the WCW ever seriously decides they're going
to promote hardcore wrestling, yes, they're going to have to
make some of their better people the champions.

Speaker 20 (02:10:12):
I think with a hiring, I think you can look
at their list of champions right now and see that
a large variety of things have gone into the decision.

Speaker 2 (02:10:20):
Of who's champion. But you look at.

Speaker 20 (02:10:23):
Rick Steamboat and Dustin Rhodes, who Steamboat's a top two wrestler,
and Dustin Rose is top ten or fifteen right now
as far as the United States goes. And so that
was you know, dictated on skill, but also because Dustin's
the booker's son, so he's automatically going to get some
beneficial treatment as far as where he wrestles on the cards.
But stunning Steve Vasta is very talented but charismatic muscle

(02:10:46):
muscular guy. Recruit is a very talented but very charismatic
muscular Guylex s. Lueger is a is a moderately talented, muscular,
charismatic guy. So we see a trend developing a WCW,
but at least there is a certain amount of skill,
whereas like when Ultimate Warrior was made Champion of the WBS.
When he became champion, the skill level with Ultimate Warrior

(02:11:06):
I think was much below any of the three singles
champions in WCW. But's uh, he.

Speaker 8 (02:11:11):
Wasn't that much lower than the guy that preceded him.

Speaker 2 (02:11:13):
Though that's a good point.

Speaker 20 (02:11:15):
Hl Kogan wasn't exactly mister technician, Larry, I want to
apologize for the phone problems we've been having. Welcome you back.
What are your comments? We have to go back to
the phone lines and also take a break as soon
as as soon as you give your comments. But what
do you think about the idea of the champions and
should they be pushed on skill level or should they
be pushed.

Speaker 2 (02:11:33):
On solely on their charisma or drawing abilities.

Speaker 6 (02:11:37):
Well yeah, wait, that's a very tough question to answer.
For this reason, the attendance for the WCW Wednesday United
here in Baltimore was well under a thousand. I think,
you know, and you know, I know that you have
your differences with Vince mickmahon, but he seems to look
for both. He wants to try to find wrestling skills,
but you know, you also have to have a draw

(02:11:58):
to get people in the seats. And I think in
my experience having done the Wrestling Show for two and
a half years, Hulk Hogan brought in people who otherwise
had no idea what professional wrestling was. So I think
you've got to I think you've got to have a
good combination. But you know, you could have a great
wrestler to knows every move and his the most skilled
wrestler around. If he doesn't have the personality to draw

(02:12:20):
people to the arenas, I think his value is just
not there.

Speaker 20 (02:12:24):
As far as your comment about business man and I
having our differences, I've only spoken to him once.

Speaker 6 (02:12:28):
Yeah, and that was a lively conversation.

Speaker 2 (02:12:30):
It was a very lively conversation.

Speaker 20 (02:12:31):
But I took that as my role as the press
is to challenge him on a lot of ridiculous statements.

Speaker 2 (02:12:35):
He was making.

Speaker 20 (02:12:36):
But whether I disagree or agree with Vince on a
lot of points hopefully won't affect my objectivity. But it's
certainly my opinion of the dodo bs is my opinion
and has nothing to do with whether I think Vince
the nice guy or not. As far as your comment
of Hulk Cogan making a lot of I agree he's
brought a lot of new fans into the arenas. But
Thanksgiving Day.

Speaker 2 (02:12:54):
Of nineteen eighty two, before Hulk Cogan ever existed as a.

Speaker 20 (02:12:57):
Major star, Thanksgiving was the biggest night of the year,
and people like Rick Flair and Harley Race and people
in Florida like Dusty Rose, and people in Portland, Oregon
and Jerry Lawler and Memphis, Tennessee and Vernon Nick and
Ada w A in a BA in Minneapolis were selling
out buildings, not just close to sell us like Hogan
and Flair at Madison Square Garden, but they were selling

(02:13:17):
out buildings without national cable.

Speaker 2 (02:13:19):
That was before ntot.

Speaker 20 (02:13:21):
Mann and Hokogan came along, and that was mainly with
wrestlers with skill levels. So I think to kind of
it's real tough. I agreed to compare yesterday with today,
but I also think that it's totally a fallacy of
reasoning to say that Vincent Mann or ho Cogan had
made wrestling more popular. They've simply found new fans.

Speaker 2 (02:13:40):
Let's go to a break and come back. We're having a.

Speaker 20 (02:13:41):
Lively conversation here and we have packed pole mind, so
we'll come back and if the lines of a cleric
will give a phone number. You're listening to way Keller's
Pro Wrestling Focus and we'll get back in ninety seconds.
Welcome back to Pro Wrestling Focus. I'm your host Way Keller,
editor and publisher of Pro Wrestling Torch Weekly. We're going

(02:14:02):
to be here for twenty more minutes talking Survivor series, WWF,
anything you want to talk about. We've got Chris Visa,
proessing Torch Weekly, and Larry Cass of Wrestle Talks WCO
in Baltimore with us. We're going to them periodically for
comments and also taking your phone calls. The lines are
packed right now, so if you're going to try to
get through, wait till we take a couple more calls.

(02:14:22):
But first I want to, as our promise last dark
if the address one more time for the Torch. Anybody
who's interested in getting the results of the Madison Square
Garden card from last night the pay per view Tuesday
Global's Thanksgiving Spectacular with the main event of Scott Anthony
Scottie to Body Anthony against the Patriots for the global
title we have had from the Sportatorium with a record
crowd for this year, and also ww's Thanksgiving Night show.

(02:14:47):
So we'll have all the results, all the big cards
from this weekend.

Speaker 2 (02:14:50):
We'll have a big double issue this week.

Speaker 20 (02:14:51):
If you're interested in receiving that, just drop me a
line at tiobox two oh one A four to four Minneapolis,
Minnesota five five four to two Oho or as always,
you can just leave your address on the Torch phone
line or faxing your address. The number for that is
eight five four four to two seven four to five
yourself to constant staff by calling eight five four four

(02:15:11):
two seven four and clearly leading your name and address
on the answering machine or faxing it and we'll get
you out Stamplushi too.

Speaker 2 (02:15:19):
And again if you want to.

Speaker 20 (02:15:19):
Call on contributor today's program, my producer Tim will get
your address if you request it, and we'll send you
out poor free issues for contributing to the show. Before
we talk anymore, let's move on to Charles for Minneapolis.

Speaker 2 (02:15:31):
How you doing, Charles?

Speaker 6 (02:15:32):
How are you not too bad?

Speaker 2 (02:15:33):
We're rolling along here with pap line.

Speaker 6 (02:15:35):
When are you gonna have a good match in the
city round here?

Speaker 2 (02:15:38):
When are we gonna have a good match in the
city around here? That's a good question. I think.

Speaker 20 (02:15:42):
Got a couple of matches coming up in the Twin Cities.
One is Hoco gonna gainst Rick Clairdycenumber twenty eighth at
Target Center. And we also have one January tense with
the main event of Lex Luger versus Rick Steiner, which
some areas has been lackluster but certainly as a potential
to be explosive. To move on and say hi to
Mark from Bloydson. How are you going?

Speaker 2 (02:16:00):
Mark?

Speaker 6 (02:16:00):
Good?

Speaker 2 (02:16:01):
A good way? Thanks for Colin. What have you got
for at first off?

Speaker 6 (02:16:04):
Way to really enjoy your show, and I was wondering,
are they ever going to give you a set day
and a set time to do this thing?

Speaker 20 (02:16:09):
Yeah, they say they will, but with weekends at a
sports station, just simply because basketball games and football games
aren't at set times. It's one of those things where
I fill the gap. And you know, there's quite a
few shows here that do some national so local shows,
and that's kind of the way it's going to be
for a while. I don't know if when college football
season ends, if that means they'll get a regular slot.

(02:16:30):
That's been indicated to me, but with college basketball being
carried on the station, that may be postponed.

Speaker 2 (02:16:36):
I appreciate it, and I agree.

Speaker 20 (02:16:38):
I hope I get a regular.

Speaker 2 (02:16:39):
Slot because I think the call support would be like
this every week.

Speaker 23 (02:16:41):
I think so too. The match is going on between
Rick Flair and Hult Cogan right now.

Speaker 4 (02:16:46):
What kind of results are we getting from those?

Speaker 2 (02:16:48):
Mainly it's Rick Flair losing.

Speaker 20 (02:16:51):
By count out when Hogan makes it back to the
the ring just in time or the other way around,
or else we're seeing Rix Flair pin Hoe Cogan but
for four and out, but with a foreign ounce. The
referee sees it and reverses a decision. So for the
most part it's been non conclusive.

Speaker 6 (02:17:07):
What do you guys think about the Medusa thing in
the WCW.

Speaker 20 (02:17:10):
Okay, Well, I appreciate your call and I'll ask God
both Chris and Larry about that.

Speaker 6 (02:17:14):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (02:17:16):
Larry.

Speaker 20 (02:17:16):
Yeah, first of all, finish as a Pogan player.

Speaker 2 (02:17:19):
We covered that.

Speaker 20 (02:17:20):
Yes, about Medusa and w CW. What do you what
do you think overall? And that's just Medusa, but of
the way w W and WW have used women.

Speaker 2 (02:17:29):
You know, namely sensational sharing.

Speaker 20 (02:17:31):
Now Madusta, Lady Blossom, Missy Hide. What's what's your impression
of the role of women and how they're used in
American wrestling.

Speaker 6 (02:17:37):
I'm glad you asked that, Wade, because I think that
women are not used enough in pro wrestling. And the
thing that disappoints me is that women are not used
enough as wrestlers in pro wrestling. I was a ring
announcer for an LVW a television taping about a year
ago now nearby Pennsylvania, and I saw some of the
best wrestling that that i'd see anywhere. Up a couple

(02:18:00):
of guys you'd be familiar with where they're Nick Bockwinkle
was broadcasting, and I just can't remember the name of
the play by play announcer. Is it Wreskin or.

Speaker 18 (02:18:12):
There?

Speaker 6 (02:18:13):
So I think in general the both leagues lose out
by not using women more often.

Speaker 2 (02:18:20):
I agree.

Speaker 20 (02:18:21):
I think one of the problems, although it would probably
be solved through using women more often, is that.

Speaker 2 (02:18:27):
Compared to Japan, the women in this country tend not
to be of its high quality.

Speaker 20 (02:18:32):
Restless is in Japan, but the fans really don't have
anything to compare to, So, you know, I tend to.

Speaker 6 (02:18:37):
Take you know, I've seen some of these wrestlers as
lady wrestlers, and I know some of them very well,
people like Hattie Lee Morgan and Rusty Thomas, and these
women are just top notch. They're real good wrestlers. And
I just think that women's wrestling should have a much
bigger role in both leagues, and I miss it, I
really do.

Speaker 20 (02:18:55):
I love when Wendy Rictor was on top those those
listeners were interested in women's wrestling, namely, the LPWA Ladies Professional.

Speaker 2 (02:19:02):
Wrestling Association is very casts mentioned.

Speaker 20 (02:19:04):
It can be seen in the cable market here on
Prime Sports Network. I believe Monday or Tuesdays from three
to four in the afternoon. That's one of those things
that probably switches as often in time as this radio
show does due to sports scheduling. But if you are
interested in that, you can listen or watch Prime Sports
Network for the LPWA. Of course, well you're listening to

(02:19:25):
Sports Line with a Huffman every afternoon, so turn the
line down on your TV set, Chris. Women's role in
wrestling in the United States compared to Japan, how do
they differ.

Speaker 8 (02:19:35):
Well, the women's wrestling in Japan is probably even better
than the men's. It is faster, it is more intense,
it's incredibly stiff. You have women there, even the big
heavyweight women over two hundred pounds.

Speaker 6 (02:19:49):
You could do dives off the top stern buckle to
the arena.

Speaker 8 (02:19:51):
Floor, moves that even the men that size don't really attempt.

Speaker 20 (02:19:56):
Yeah, that's really incredible.

Speaker 8 (02:19:58):
Over here, you have a few good workers, is like Madusa,
Machelli and Ludovishad and a few people like that, but
they really don't get to destruct their stuff enough where
they can develop any consistency.

Speaker 20 (02:20:09):
Over here, I think you can't.

Speaker 8 (02:20:10):
The point is Medusa when she wrestled, wrestled in Japan
against the copy. So she was one of the best
wrestlers in the world. Now since she's returned, her skills
has seriously eroded, and now she's just one of the pasts.

Speaker 2 (02:20:24):
I think you can see that with anybody.

Speaker 20 (02:20:25):
I mean you look at her fans. So the timber
was Luke Longley and the long laugh between his college basketball,
his last year in college basketball, and now what the
timber was. Obviously, you don't want to risk injury as
a basketball player by by before you sign a big
money contract, and that's what Luke Longley did, and so
obviously he has that to get back in shape. I mean,
it's it's not like riding a bicycle, you know. Pro

(02:20:46):
wrestling isn't it.

Speaker 2 (02:20:47):
And most sports aren't. It takes, you know, continued practice
and endurance.

Speaker 1 (02:20:53):
Give yourself a reason to look forward to going to
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Subscription details at PW torch dot com slash paper Copy.
It's twelve pages every week, packed with my TV reports,
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(02:21:14):
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Speaker 20 (02:21:49):
Let's go to Kevin Fromroso. Thanks for joining us on
progressing focus.

Speaker 6 (02:21:52):
Kevin, Yeah, you guys were talking earlier about how McMahon
wouldn't let you work full time. Could you explain that
a little more.

Speaker 20 (02:21:58):
I'm a I'm sorry, can you be.

Speaker 2 (02:22:01):
Span on that a little bit? I'm not sure what
you're referring to.

Speaker 6 (02:22:04):
Yeah, one of your guests was saying that when you're
talking about World Warriors getting that oh sure contract and
how McMahon would not let you work full time when
he wouldn't do something to that effect.

Speaker 20 (02:22:14):
Yeah, well, I think what they were. When we're talking
about the Legion of Doom. McMahon will not allow wrestlers
to tour Japan or work for other federations or other groups.
Besides that, would it be a if you have to
work full time for the Evince unless he tells you
that for some reason you can work elsewhere. There's a
few people that he uses geer regularly on the East
Coast that he also allows to work independance. But he

(02:22:36):
doesn't want to.

Speaker 2 (02:22:37):
Promote the road Warriors of Legion to Doom.

Speaker 20 (02:22:39):
On It's TV when they're all going to get to
be there three out of four weeks. And so that's
been its policy. And because he's almost a monopoly when
it comes to the wrestling business, he's able people are.

Speaker 2 (02:22:48):
Able to uh h, he's able to get away with that.

Speaker 23 (02:22:51):
Okay, can you tell me where the heck you or
Mike Sharp.

Speaker 20 (02:22:53):
Is at iron?

Speaker 2 (02:22:54):
My Sharp just appeared on a on one of those independent.

Speaker 20 (02:22:58):
Just an independently promote the show.

Speaker 2 (02:23:01):
I think it was in New Yorker, New Jersey. But
for the most part, I think he's inactive.

Speaker 6 (02:23:05):
Okay, how about play by Buddy Rose?

Speaker 2 (02:23:07):
Play play Buddy Rose last was in the.

Speaker 20 (02:23:10):
WWS A year ago he was in that diet commerce
or that diet commercial on the Survivor series that spoofs
they did. Ever since then, he's been real low profile.
I know he appeared in Portland real briefly, but for
the most part he I haven't seen any results of
him wrestling regularly at all across the country.

Speaker 6 (02:23:29):
Okay, all right, well, thanks thanks.

Speaker 2 (02:23:30):
For your call, Kevin. Let's go to.

Speaker 20 (02:23:33):
Show from Brooklyn Park. Thanks for join us on portus
and focused show.

Speaker 8 (02:23:37):
Yeah, I was.

Speaker 4 (02:23:38):
Wondering why Rick Steamboats stints in the WWS for so
short and maybe how long you guys don't think he'll
be around in w CW.

Speaker 20 (02:23:45):
Sure, I appreciate your question. As far as Steamboat goes.
Distinton is up in the WWF for short because he
frankly became very.

Speaker 2 (02:23:52):
Frustrated with the way he was being portrayed.

Speaker 20 (02:23:55):
Rick is somebody who is from the old school, and
that he takes him hence pride in his skill and
immen's pride in his image and having good matches, and
because he really is when he's getting the chance to
wrestle decent opponents, one of the top two or three
workers in the business. He got very frustrated having to
fight Skinner every night and in openers, and really didn't

(02:24:16):
look like there was light at the end of the tunnel.
There may have been, but he didn't see it. So
he gave us notice, and he gave his three week notice.
In the meantime, just like Mann put him in some
matches such as three minute TV matches where he'd be
losing to Undertaker or other people like that, and he
just took more pride than than to be buried on
his way out after being after supposedly promises being broken

(02:24:38):
in the first place. So because he refused to participate
at the TV taping.

Speaker 2 (02:24:42):
He was fired, so he quit, but before his time
was up, he was fired. Zobew. I think will last.

Speaker 20 (02:24:50):
That's tough to say, especially with somebody like Rick Steamboat.
If Rick Steamboats had a reputation for having some short
stints in different groups. I know that there's no guarantees
that he'll even worked television after the first of the year. Chris,
what do you think, how long do you think you're
steam It will be around?

Speaker 2 (02:25:07):
WW Well, I.

Speaker 8 (02:25:08):
Hope he's around for a long long time.

Speaker 20 (02:25:09):
He's definitely one of the most talented people in this country.

Speaker 8 (02:25:13):
His ability is second to none. When he's on he
knows how to work a match, he gets good interviews,
he looks ten years younger than what he is, and
when you're on TV as much as that, it's definitely
a quality to have. I think he's getting to the
point now where I think he's got a couple of kids.
His Jim probably is not doing well in a recession,

(02:25:35):
so he's looking for some solid money, and Ted kurd
Of gives him the solid money and piece him there.

Speaker 20 (02:25:42):
Yeah, I think we may see that. Larry, what is
your impression of Rick Cambo? How long he might be around?

Speaker 6 (02:25:47):
Ww Wait before answered, I want to make some brief comments.
Number one, your show is great. He's doing a wonderful job.

Speaker 2 (02:25:51):
I appreciate it.

Speaker 6 (02:25:52):
Pro Wrestling George is a top, top notch newsletter. Just great.

Speaker 20 (02:25:56):
Thanks Ry, you should definitely subscribe.

Speaker 6 (02:25:59):
Number three, anybody who calls my program tonight at area
code three oh one four eight one nine two two six.
First caller who mentioned that they heard me on your
show will receive absolutely free a wrestling T shirt.

Speaker 2 (02:26:10):
Well great, we'll get some cross country calls going.

Speaker 6 (02:26:13):
Yeah, and also my travel agency that I'm affiliated with
Specializes in Wrestling Trips and their number is one eight
hundred eight market. I hope Ricky steembose days around at
the WCW for a while. I kind of think he'd
like to leave wrestling all together. I think he's started
at the traveling I think, like Chris was saying, if
the gym was going good, he may not be back there.

(02:26:33):
But as fate would have it, he is back in wrestling.
I think what Vincement Fama was doing to him with
the dragon get up, which is I'm not appropriate. I
think it was almost disgraceful, and I'm happy to see
him back at WCW rere's talents to really appreciate it.

Speaker 20 (02:26:46):
We'll be back after this break with the wrap up
for the show, taking your final calls and saying thanks
and goodbye to BISA. Larry Chris to join us in
ninety seconds for more of Pro Wrestling Focus. Welcome back
to the final segment of Pro Wrestling Focus. We've been
here since ten am talking professional wrestling, especially Survivors Series

(02:27:06):
and the follow up pay per viewers should be available
on most twin Cities cable systems for twelve ninety five Tuesday.

Speaker 2 (02:27:12):
Early evening.

Speaker 20 (02:27:13):
It's called This Tuesday in Texas as the main event
of Jake Roberts versus Randy Savage plus Un Kok and
trying to regain the World Wrestling Federation title which he
lost to undertake her last Wednesday. We've had Chris Obita
prosin Torch weekly with us and Larry casts of Wrestle
Talk in Baltimore, and we do have one open line.
But let's go to Henry from Minneapolis first and say.

Speaker 2 (02:27:32):
How to Henry and ask what you have to say today? Henry, Hi,
I want to.

Speaker 6 (02:27:36):
Go about any series about the Dangerous Alliance and whether
it's basically another full Horseman or any other ideas about.

Speaker 20 (02:27:44):
That, Okay, any other questions besides that, and.

Speaker 23 (02:27:47):
Also with the lady Blossom is still going to be
in the WCW or she gone?

Speaker 20 (02:27:52):
Okay, I can answer that one real quick. She has
been given her notice. It'll be Maylee Madusa and I
will be working with Steve Austin. Okay, well, I appreciate
your Kyle. We'll get to the Dangerous Alliance with both
of our guests to answer the questions. Larry, Yeah, what's
your impression of the Dangerous Alliance.

Speaker 6 (02:28:10):
Well, I think it's interesting to see something like that again,
but I haven't seen enough of it to really, you know,
make a clear comment that just you know, I'm not
really sure you know, where they're going to do, what
they're going to do with it. It is so new. Yeah,
I think it's a good idea on the one hand,
But on the other hand, sometimes these alliances and four
Horsemen and all after a while that they kind of
just they wear out there. Welcome.

Speaker 2 (02:28:32):
I agree. I think we saw that a little bit
with the Four Horsemen, and that it was reincarnated.

Speaker 6 (02:28:35):
So many times. Yes, indeed, I like to see the
wrestlers kind of independent of each other, you know, not
kind of aligned with each other.

Speaker 20 (02:28:42):
One of the comments that we're one of the things
that I think is the key about these Dangerous Alliance
that's an advantage over the Four Horsemen is that there's
five members plus poly Dangerously of course as the main
manager and Medusa as the secondary manager. Since there are
five members, it's going to be mainly a four horseman
type deal, with Bobby and arn Anderson as the tag team,
Larry's Abisco and sort of the enforcer.

Speaker 2 (02:29:04):
What are they calling him now?

Speaker 20 (02:29:05):
The the Crusher, the uh Cruncher. That's it because they
Crunchberry when the band of the car Door and Sonny
Steve Austin. I think they'll play the role of the
four horsemen, and then we'll see Rick Rud as a standout,
as sort of the leader of the group and not
part of the group. So I think, as you said, Larry,
it's kind of good to stand out, and I think
that that's what they're gonna do with Rick Ruth. I
think that we've seen a lot of groups in wrestling,

(02:29:26):
but one of the things that's is that they would
be have to stayed away from groups. You know, we'll
see the Bobby Heenan family, but rarely do they all
come together right and and and in a way, I
think that makes these events such as Survivor series less
effective because you don't get a close knit group together
against you know, forces of good or forces of evil,
whatever it happens to be. Let's go to UH Fine

(02:29:50):
one and say hello to Nate from Bloomtown.

Speaker 2 (02:29:52):
How I do it?

Speaker 18 (02:29:52):
Nate?

Speaker 6 (02:29:53):
Pretty good? Len Uh.

Speaker 25 (02:29:54):
I'd like to know who is Van Panzers.

Speaker 20 (02:29:56):
Van Panser is the son of the recently recently who
parted Gene Anderson, who.

Speaker 2 (02:30:04):
Died a few weeks ago.

Speaker 20 (02:30:06):
Brad Anderson has been wrestling Independence for JEZ a couple
of years now, and in order just because he sort
of thinks he'll have a future in wrestling as Bran Anderson.
He's now wrestling under a mask while he.

Speaker 2 (02:30:18):
You know, improves his skills on television.

Speaker 20 (02:30:21):
Gay Bet, thanks for listening. May we have open lines
here at the fan phone if you want to give
us a ring. We're down two minutes here. I'll let
you give us a call if you have a quick
question at nine eight, nine eleven thirty or one eight
hundred four four five four six ninety five.

Speaker 2 (02:30:38):
But before we do that, Larry, I want to thank
you for being on.

Speaker 20 (02:30:41):
We want Chris decided to Apparently something came up we
had to leave early, but I want to thank Chris
long Distance for being with us. Chris Evista Japanese progressing
calls for pros and Torch and Larry, I want to
thank you for being on the show today. We'll be
on again sometime. I don't schedule to be on your
show in a couple of weeks and for all, I
guess one quick question is how and can be brief

(02:31:04):
with this. Would you say that, What would you say
is the most rewarding thing about doing a pro wresting
radio show. I think we just have his volume turned up. Okay,
go ahead, Larry, Wait, yeah, yeah, we have your schedule
off for next week at ten o'clock. Okay, okay, great,
which is nine o'clock in the Central time zone.

Speaker 6 (02:31:20):
The most rewarding thing would be about being a radio
talk show host is that the fans just seem to
love the shows. Yeah, love wrestling. And whenever the fans
call like they have done to you this morning and
say how much they like the show, that's the reward.
There's not gonna be a ton of money in this thing.
It's just the fun and the pleasure of having a
good time with the fans and just sit down and
lasting and talking wrestler.

Speaker 20 (02:31:41):
I agree, and I think that's the fun we've had
for the last hour forty five minutes. And we'll say
hello to guess some other time.

Speaker 2 (02:31:46):
Larry.

Speaker 6 (02:31:46):
Okay, wait, thanks so much for having for having your owner.
I'll talk to you next Week's good.

Speaker 20 (02:31:49):
Let's forward to it, Larry's let's say hello to I
believe it's Kevin do we have you online?

Speaker 2 (02:31:53):
One?

Speaker 18 (02:31:54):
All right?

Speaker 6 (02:31:54):
All right, I'd like to know who's a rapping a
man in WCW bred Armstrong that Ar'm sorry it is?

Speaker 20 (02:31:59):
Yeah, right Armstrong who wrestled also at Fantasia or Bad Street.

Speaker 2 (02:32:05):
Yeah, so those are he's made his rounds under the mask.
You bet. Let's go. Let's just say hi to uh
wine too.

Speaker 20 (02:32:14):
Can we just go straight to line too and say hi, Hi?

Speaker 4 (02:32:18):
This was Tom Jungdow.

Speaker 2 (02:32:20):
Tom.

Speaker 12 (02:32:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (02:32:20):
Can you turn on your radio please?

Speaker 20 (02:32:23):
Okay, and let me just remind you that we're down
to uh once in a minute here, so we're gonna him. Yeah,
I'll be doing We got about a minute left. Okay, Well,
well we still got time.

Speaker 2 (02:32:33):
Prist out here.

Speaker 20 (02:32:34):
If you get back the phone, what's your question for us?

Speaker 6 (02:32:36):
I like to say one thing. I like to say,
you're doing a beautiful, beautiful job.

Speaker 2 (02:32:40):
Well thanks, I appreciate the compliment.

Speaker 6 (02:32:41):
And I was wondering, who do you think is gonna
win that Randy Savage match.

Speaker 20 (02:32:45):
Randy Savage match I think will be won by Randy Savage.
I think you're gonna se stants. I'm happy and I
hope he beats the heck out of that Yeah, I
think I think.

Speaker 2 (02:32:53):
It's gonna be a pretty good match. They've had a
few matches before, but I think this would be one
of the top ones. Thanks for a call. I want
to apologize to those of you holding because it's time
to wrap up, and I want to remind you tomorrow
we'll be.

Speaker 20 (02:33:02):
On next week Saturday from seven until nine pm. That's
an evening show next Saturday, and the following Saturday.

Speaker 2 (02:33:07):
Will be on Nude until one thirty. This is way
Keller and.

Speaker 20 (02:33:11):
I want to thank you for joining me here on
PROG Wrestling Focus and appreciate your foller support.

Speaker 2 (02:33:15):
Today we'll do the year.

Speaker 20 (02:33:16):
End a warn picks one of the upcoming weeks with
Dave Melterer ANDREWS Mitchell for scheduled to be with us
in these last forty five minutes. Enjoy college football coming
up next and stay tuned for them McCain in the.

Speaker 1 (02:33:26):
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(02:33:47):
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(02:34:28):
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Speaker 27 (02:34:35):
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Speaker 2 (02:34:49):
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Dateline NBC

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Stuff You Should Know