15 YRS AGO LIVECASTS: Top Five Stories of 2010, Cena-Punk, Vickie Guerrero treatment, Cena joining in on "fat jokes," Nexus's future, more

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 2 (01:05):
Now, PW Torch and Spreaker bring you the Wade Keller
Pro Wrestling Podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:15):
On today's way. Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast jumped back fifteen
years to a double header of shows, first up December
twenty first, twenty ten, I was joined by Jason Powell.
We talked about the previous night's episode of Raw, the
fallout from the WWETLC pay per view, and then we
took calls for most of the hour on a wide
range of topics, including Randy orton, John Cena, comparing WWE's

(01:38):
booking then to a year earlier, and more. And then
in the previously VP exclusive after show, we talked about
the dynamic between Raw and SmackDown heading into that night's
live SmackDown, plus Eric Bischoff, Desmond Wolf now, Nigel McGinnis
and more. Then on the December twenty second episode the
next night, James Caldwell was joined by Pat McNeil. They

(02:00):
discussed with live callers first week of build for the
cum Punk John Cena match and where it was leading
WWE's presentation of Vicky Guerrero, John Cena joining the fat
Jokes routine nice next to his future the TLC pap perview,
crowd responses, whether the Brian regal situation was a one
off or the start of a program. Edge and Kane
continued and more, and then in the previously VIP exclusive

(02:23):
after show, we talked about the top five stories of
twenty ten plus took listener questions on really bad Christmas
themed storylines. So let's get to it. This is the
way Keller Prossing Podcast fifteen years ago Flashback four Saturday,
December twenty seventh, twenty twenty five.

Speaker 3 (02:39):
Lot Oh Radio.

Speaker 4 (02:52):
Welcome to PW tors Live cast. It is Tuesday, December
twenty one, twenty ten. I am host Way Keller, editor
and sure of the Pro Wresting Torch newsletter and PW
Torch dot Com. Joined today as always on Tuesdays, by
Jason Powell of Pro Wrestling dot Net. Jason, how's it going?

Speaker 5 (03:11):
Oh, so far, so good? I think today the first
day of winter.

Speaker 4 (03:16):
Yeah, yeah, it is so up until now it's just
been it's just been fall.

Speaker 5 (03:20):
Yeah boy, I can't you know, with this two feet
of snow out on my patty, I can't wait to
see what real winter brings.

Speaker 4 (03:26):
Yeah. Well, it's always been a little bit off in
that regard, although we still get a full three months
of winner here in Minnesota. Jason, So you won't don't
don't feel like you're gonnaet cheated out of a full
winner even though I just turned into it. But yeah,
well you braised the Elements yesterday, unlike a lot of
Minnesotas who chose to stay home from these pivotal White
pivotal Vikings game last night on ESPN, I was pretty

(03:48):
oppressed that you, uh, you, you made it out to
the to the first outdoor NFL football game in Minnesota
since what nineteen eighty one?

Speaker 6 (03:56):
Is it?

Speaker 5 (03:56):
Yeah? And I think, you know, I've got to ask
my dad, but we I think we went to the
last Packer Viking game at met Stadium. I know I
went to one game out there, and so yeah, first
time since then that I've actually been able to see
an outdoor game in Minnesota. And it was just a blast,
you know what I mean. The game was terrible, but
I kind of expected that going in. You know, you
always hoped for a little something better from the home team,

(04:18):
but I didn't have high hopes, but just a really
fun atmosphere, a much younger crowd than you'd normally see
a Viking game. Yeah, boy, no one apparently no one
had any trouble sneaking booze in because as people are leaving,
you look under every seat almost and there was like
a bottle of some.

Speaker 4 (04:35):
Kind well, and there was one the one fan who
ran out of the field and started dancing around the
Chicago Bears players too. That was kind on television.

Speaker 5 (04:45):
Yeah, that was not me.

Speaker 4 (04:46):
For the record, well, when they set a fan run
on the field, Jason, I rewound the DVR to make
sure because I was on the look at the TV.
I'm like, oh my god, this would be hilarious if
it was Jason.

Speaker 5 (04:55):
I you know what, I only had one shot last night.
That was it. I grave the elements sober. I mean,
the main reason I went was because for well since
nineteen eighty one or nineteen eighty two, have complained about
the Dome and I would have felt like a hypocrite
to pass up on the opportunity to go to that camp.

Speaker 4 (05:11):
Well, you've seen you and I both went to NFL
games one one in Denver Viking Denver game one of
Chris Carter's greatest games ever at the Old at the
Old Mile High and it's last season. And then we
also went to Lambeau. So we've seen some all to
our NFL, so we kind of knew what it was
going to be like, but what was the how did
the atmosphere And then we'll get to wrestling. We don't
lot to talk about. But how did the atmosphere there
compared to to the other two experiences.

Speaker 5 (05:31):
I mean, it wasn't like I said, routed your crowd
because it was a younger crowd. I mean there were
some families, but not nearly as many as you'd see.
No corporate types unless they were up in their suites,
and so it's just a really fun crowd that I'd say,
until the third quarter was really in you know, until
late in the third quarter was really into it, and
that's when people started filing out. It was just a
party atmosphere, you know, people throwing snow and having a

(05:52):
good time. I didn't see any major issues. I know,
traffic was supposedly really bad in downtown Minneapolis, but I
avoided that by taking the shuttle. So it was just
it went. You know, for all the panic over hounds,
you know, how things were gonna work, got it turned
out to it looked like a pretty smooth operation.

Speaker 4 (06:09):
Well cool. Well, let's uh. I could talk to you
for another half hour on that, but we won't. We
won't make everyone indulgence raw. Last night the show right
after TLC, so it's a follow up on TLC. But
to me, one of the headlines, just in a big
macro sense, was I felt like I wasn't immediately being
told about about the next pay per view and how
I have to order it. It was nice. We got

(06:30):
six weeks and we actually just got to enjoy a
wrestling show. You know, there's good and bad in the show,
without feeling like, in two weeks there's going to be
this gimmick and we got to rush through storylines, and
to me that it's kind of the headline it felt.
It felt nice.

Speaker 5 (06:42):
Yeah, you know, it's almost like they went out of
their way not to mention the Royal Rumble at one
point when John Morrison, Yeah, we're talking about their match.
I don't think they ever said the words Royal rumble.
So yeah, I mean, it is nice to get that
breather once in a while, especially when you're coming off
those you know, October where it was just a mad
rush where there were pay per views every two weeks,
and now they get a little break. And it's good

(07:03):
timing too with the holidays, because I'm guessing viewership's probably
down a little bit, and it kind of felt, I
don't know, it felt like a filler show, but I
didn't mind it it overall, it was going to entertain
me for a couple of hours, and I didn't expect
a whole lot of major storyline developments, nor did we
really get any.

Speaker 4 (07:21):
I'm taking a little bit. He was talking to a
wrestler last night and he has given me a hard
time about the low star rating that I gave Daniel
Bryant against William Regal, and VIP member in the common
area also said I underrated it. James Caldwell gave it
two and a half star if I gave it one star,
although I'm kind of admitting I probably didn't put as
much thought into it and just kind.

Speaker 2 (07:40):
Of it was.

Speaker 4 (07:40):
It was a five minute match, and there was some
you know, there's some really good stuff, but I guess
I was kind of a little upset that they only
gave him five minutes. And I also thought William Regal
looked I was kind of a little bit sad because
William Regal looked like it put on a decent amount
of weight and it and its flowed him down. You know,
I thought that his offense didn't look as good, so
it felt a little exhibition like and less fight like,
and so I but I probably did underrate the match,

(08:01):
but I think two and a half for almost any
five star match. Other than well there's that's a whole
other subject. How you would manage to get above two
stars in only five minutes the way that I rate matches.
But for you, what did you think of the It's
hardly the headline of the show, but it's something I
was given a hard time for last night. What did
you think of the Daniel Brian William ringo match?

Speaker 5 (08:19):
I had noidy. You were given a hard time and
I gave it a miss today in my raw hit list.

Speaker 4 (08:22):
Oh okay, yep.

Speaker 5 (08:24):
That part of it was higher expectations for those two.
It just there was nothing special about it at all.
It just was felt that really felt like a filler match.
And I just had much higher hopes for those two
and expected much better from them.

Speaker 4 (08:38):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, And I mean it gave glimpses of
what they can do, but I don't know, you know,
And just Regal putting on weight again makes me kind of,
you know, kind of bummed out because when he really
gotten self in shape. You know, I've always been a
Regal fan. I loved him, I've really liked him on
promos and when he can, when he turns it up
in the ring, it doesn't just kind of do that
European meandering style you watch me I'm good, and does

(09:00):
really have that sense of urgency which I think Triple
h emulated for years, and I think through McIntyre's emulated
that a little bit too. I'm not crazy about that
pacing of things, but I'm in most ways, I'm really
big fans. So it's a little bummed out that, after
hearing about the Great House Show matches that they had
had on the European tour, that I thought we got
a lesser version of it, even though it had its moments.
So anyway, somebody in the chat room, Jason says, your

(09:22):
volume is inconsistent. I haven't noticed that since you've been talking,
but keep that in mind in case you were moving
the mouthpiece around or something. Okay, what's that.

Speaker 5 (09:30):
I should will do?

Speaker 4 (09:31):
Absolutely cool. The other thing that people are talking about,
and I've heard both sides of it, is John Cena's
in Rinsight in ring segment with dalsig Leer and Vicki.
It went on and on. Crowd heat made it. I
thought the crowd heat and the crowd really getting into
drowning out. Vicky. I thought was a moment. I thought
it was cool, and I think John Cena kind of
felt it was a moment and really got into it,

(09:52):
seemed to be having fun. Some people kind of looked
at it and have commented, Oh, it's kind of WWE
and it's doing you know, the PG stuff now and
if you're looking for something a little more edgy, it
wasn't very edgy. But I liked it because it elevated
Dolph and then he went on to have an even
Stephen Madge with John Cena before losing, and I thought
that elevated Dolph to a level he had previously been at.
And then Vicky, I just think she's sensational Sherry plus,

(10:17):
you know, plus not Bobby Heena, but you like, I
think she's got a real She's a really good character,
has a really good thing going where fans really enjoyed
drowning her out and giving her hard time. So what
do you think of that segment? Pro and cons.

Speaker 5 (10:30):
Yeah, I mean it did drag a bit, Vicky. I
think at times, I think now it's getting to the
point where the live crowd it's having a little bit
more fun than the people watching at home with Vicky great.
I mean, it's it's been a real treat to watch
her go from having no skills and at this whatsoever
and just being brought in for the reason she was

(10:50):
to really you know, making the most of this and
becoming just a great heal scena. You know, it was
fun loving John Cena, and I guess it was the
right night work, considering he ran off Nexus at least
for a night so good segment, don't you know, I didn't.
I don't think it's one I'm gonna look back on
as a real raw moment, though.

Speaker 4 (11:10):
I think I think it was an example of Vicky
succeeding out her character and the repeating drawning arout, drawning
he out where it seemed like John Cena broke character.
Anytime wrestler's break character, and it's it's like genuine, it
doesn't feel manufactured, and you kind of go with something
maybe a little bit off script that can be good,
you know. And and I think maybe that you know,
not not not great. And I'm still not sure about

(11:31):
all the all the weight jokes on Vicky. I don't
know how that plays with her audience. Maybe the fact
that she has lost weight actually makes it better that
they give her hard time about her weight now in
a weird reverse psychology way, it's like because it's less justified,
and she tries, you know, she does present herself a
little more glamorously. But I'm still not comfortable with just
one fat joke after another after another aimed at a
woman in a business full of people who you you

(11:54):
don't imagine that with a lot of these women, food
stays in them very long before they throw it up,
and you know, fair unfair. I mean they just look
they look like you could possibly eat and be that thin,
and Vicky is a normal woman. So I still I'm
still not crazy about that approach.

Speaker 5 (12:09):
No, I'm not either. It just seems unnecessary. I mean,
I think there is something that you said though about
it's a little more tolerable now that she's lost weight
and almost Yeah, it was always kind of absurd, and
now it just seems like, wow, they if they think
she's overweight, I mean, my god, it's it's almost ridiculous.
But what were you comfortable with? Just how happy go

(12:31):
lucky John Cena was last night? I mean they were
even That's been one of my criticisms lately ever since
Survivor series is how happy go lucky he's been. And
like I said, you know, it makes sense with the
next situation for last Night, But in general, Waite, is
that a John Cena you want to see on a
regular basis?

Speaker 4 (12:49):
I think and and and I'll revise this if in
retrospect I'm wrong. But I think they're setting him and
us are not us, him and the viewers who like
him a lot, the fans, ding them up so that
when things go wrong it feels like something was taken away.
I think it's it's it's the you know, not the
call before the storm, but the elation before the the

(13:11):
you know, the next big angle that tears them down again.
And I think to an extent, there's a deliberate thought
process that they want WWE to be feel good programming
around the holidays, and John Cena is the hero and
they don't want to put them in jeopardy. And I
think they've made a deliberate decision to wait until after
Christmas to do anything that would that would be a
downer because I think they really want to keep rating

(13:33):
strong through the end of the year. They don't have
a big angle or papero to promote, and they want
to give fans that sense of a reason to cheer
and be happy their home team won, their favorite guy won,
John Cena beat the Nexus. So I think that's where
they're going with it. But I think maybe that will
make when something goes wrong in the future, whether it's
the return of Nexus or whatever angle they run with Punk,
the next time around, it'll it'll mean more because they're

(13:55):
you're taking something away from the fans, which is this
happy time with John Cena.

Speaker 5 (14:00):
Yeah, I was really open. That was actually you know,
I had my doubts, but I was hopeful that it
was going to lead to Dolf beating Sena on a
night where it seems like everything's perfect in See this world.
And you could always play it up the old sports
cliche that it was kind of a letdown match for Seena.
He had the big match on Sunday and was obviously
a little distracted, and you know, I didn't expect it

(14:20):
to happen, but it would have played it really nicely
to tonight and building up a little more interest because
I don't know about you, but I'd have more interest
in seeing Sena try to avenge a loss, rather than
Seena now facing Dolf Zigler and Vicky Guerrero.

Speaker 4 (14:33):
I would I wonder if it's not if they don't
see it, and maybe right for Lisol, is a little
too soon for Sina to lose to Dolph unless they're
really ready to get behind Dolph big time. I think
when seen a little like I think if somebody beat,
if somebody lower on the card, be somebody higher on
the card. You do it when you're ready to go
all the way with it and make a really big
deal out of it. And maybe they're not ready to

(14:54):
go all the way with Dolph yet, And so do
you want to spend a scena loss so that maybe
it means less the next time you do it when
you really are trying to elevate somebody to main events.
So part of it, part of it is I'm just thinking,
maybe save the scene losses for when they really matter,
and then when it happens, I'm holding them to it
in my commentary, they better make it matter. I just
think when a top star loses, you really want to

(15:15):
make a big deal out of it. Maybe they weren't
quite ready to do that with with Dolph yet.

Speaker 1 (15:20):
You can support us on Patreon and get these shows
with ads and plugs, remove, the weight Keller Prosing Podcast,
Weight Keller Prossing post shows and the PW Torch daily
cast throughout the week with ads and plugs remove, plus
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out patreon dot com slash PW Torch vip. That's Patreon

(15:42):
dot com slash PW Torch vip and you can also
upgrade to other tiers and receive even more benefits through Patreon.

Speaker 5 (15:51):
Who do you see a higher a better future for
right now? The Dolph Zeguler, John Morrison after them? You know,
they're both seemingly getting decent pushes right now. I wouldn't
call either main event push, but they're getting something. They're
getting opportunities.

Speaker 4 (16:03):
Yeah, you know, they're both knocking on the door of
the top tier, but they both need to come through.
I think, you know, I was more impressed with Dolf
than Morrison last night as a character. I think that
Morrison doesn't there's still something about him that just seems
like he's kind of checking in for the promo and
then he checks out when he's done and goes back
to something else. He doesn't seem like this is his

(16:24):
life and that he wants that world Like I wanted
him to really want that world title and not just
walk in with that kind of weird smile and be like, yeah,
well you know, I trust blah blah blah Orton. Yeah,
there's just not that intensity that drive. He's the guy
who you know on the sports team who drives me
us because he's got so much talent. But he doesn't
seem all that broken up about a loss. And I
don't even sense that he's that excited about the potential

(16:45):
of winning a title. They didn't. You know, part of
it is booking. It's not just the guy, you know,
John Morrison's fault. Part of it is they're not booking
him in that way and giving him the material to
work with. Where Dolf, my problem with him has ben
It's been hard to take him seriously because of that voice.
You know, he just he doesn't have a voice that
matches his size and a top tier Maine event guy.
You know, it's just kind of high pitched and whiny

(17:06):
and all that. But I think with Vicky it works
well that the dynamics between him works well, and I
think Dolph did some good mic work and his good
body language and and there's something there. But if you
want to make money with him as a heel, they
have to figure out how to take kind of a whiny, sniveling,
high pitched voice with Vicky as a sidekick and make

(17:27):
it something other than Santino, you know, like a heel
version of Santino where he's just there for Lass. And
that's the part that I'm not sure on. And that's
where maybe Morrison is stronger because at least people respect
him as an athlete, where with Ziggler he's just one
more kind of mid card heel knocking on the door
of you know, trying to trying to be a main
eventor but he doesn't have it in him. So I
think I think it's a good comparison and a good

(17:48):
question to ask because it is a close call.

Speaker 5 (17:50):
Yeah, I guess I leaned toward Golf right now. He
really showed me something in that match, not that Morrison did,
but Morrison just he so wouldn't I know, you just
stiff on the Mica. I know they finally got him
to not go out there and tell a bunch at
cornball jokes and only he thinks it's funny. But the lines,
it just felt like he was reading lines where Dolf

(18:11):
still has to show me that there's something special about
him as a character. There's really no niche for him.
He's just a very generic heel character. There's nothing.

Speaker 7 (18:21):
You know.

Speaker 5 (18:21):
He kind of reminds you a little bit of Kurt
Heading and a little bit of this guy and a
little bit of that guy. But he needs something to
really help him stand out. And you know, Vicky's been
a an excellent part of the act, but I don't
know that that's necessarily main event yet. He still needs
to get there, But I do think that he Morrison
is probably going to get that opportunity before Dolf because

(18:42):
it's such a babyface driven company. But I do see
more in Dolf right now than I do Morrison.

Speaker 4 (18:48):
Yeah, yeah, well, Jason, we'll tackle more subjects in the
VIP after show following this. But we've got eight people
on hold, which means in about five seconds will only
have sick because too we'll hang up because they don't
want to wait. We've paid people on hold right now,
and hell, everyone stayed on. Good for you.

Speaker 2 (19:07):
Guys.

Speaker 4 (19:07):
All right, let's start banging your phone calls here. Let's
go do Eric code four to seven eight. Thanks of
calling you on the People Who Torch Live cast with
Jason Paula and Wade Keller. Please state your name and
where you're from. Oh, there we go, Chris.

Speaker 8 (19:20):
This would be Chris and Georgia also dot net member
eighth spe Chris.

Speaker 5 (19:24):
Hey, what's going on?

Speaker 9 (19:26):
Nonetheless time?

Speaker 3 (19:27):
Li h.

Speaker 8 (19:28):
Let's see being that you brought up Morrison Actually, me
and a cowork we're talking about this one day. Is
like he sounds like he's trying to make everything sound ethnic,
but it's really not.

Speaker 5 (19:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (19:39):
Yeah, that's a good way to put it.

Speaker 5 (19:41):
Yeah, last night I really came through. You know, we've
seen so much clowning around for Morrison. I think that's
a Yeah. I think he nailed it. I mean he's
really that line he had ordon about the trust and everything.
He was trying hard. But I just I don't know
that the guy's got it on the mic. And you know,
maybe I know, Wade, you've mentioned Edge, the guy who
was kind of in the same boat as Morrison where

(20:02):
he could do kind of the clowning around and stuff
like that. But then something finally snapped an Edge where
he was able to bring something out of himself. And
I don't know if Morrison's ever gonna have that moment,
but if he does, He's got the potential to become
a complete package for them.

Speaker 4 (20:17):
I just think Morrison needs to start exchanging suggestive text
messages and long late night phone calls with another wrestler's girlfriend.
I mean, that's what got That's what motivated Edge is
having Matt Hardy gets so obnoxious about the whole thing.
And I mean, I sympathize with Matt Hardy, but I
mean it was the early signs of Mets, the obnoxious
side of Matt that people make fun of every time

(20:37):
he post a YouTube video in the comments area. And
I think Edge finally got to the point where it's like, yeah,
I screwed up, Amy screwed up, but you're kind of
showing people why Amy reached out to me and why
this happened. And I think it all of a sudden,
it just it's something lit up inside of Edge and
he's just like, all right now, and now I got
some motivation to get serious because I'm not just kind

(20:58):
of meandering and you know, by way promos. So yeah,
maybe Morrison just needs something more serious that happened to
bring to kind of shake him out of this this
this funk that he seems to be in on promos and.

Speaker 5 (21:08):
My god, all you know, he's been with Molina on
and off and there's all sorts of stories there. You'd
think something would have come out of him by now.

Speaker 4 (21:14):
Yeah. Yeah, well thanks Jason, that was good.

Speaker 5 (21:17):
Yeah, no problem.

Speaker 4 (21:19):
Anything else, Chris, I'm not sure what you called about,
if that was about Marton or not.

Speaker 8 (21:24):
Let's see. Oh yeah, by the way, on what was it?
The Playfish network they now have We actually purchase episodes
of Raw and SmackDown on that network, So the only
place I know they do that, Like you know, because
I have been waiting for a very long time, we
actually purchased us so the Raw just you know, keep take.

Speaker 4 (21:38):
Memory stuff, which, uh, where where can you do that?

Speaker 8 (21:42):
The Playfistion network.

Speaker 4 (21:44):
I didn't even I still.

Speaker 5 (21:45):
Can't for PlayStation network.

Speaker 4 (21:48):
Oh PlayStation number Okay, I'm sorry, the full Mine just
didn't pick up what you're saying. Oh that's so you
can you purchase them to view or you purchase them
to own.

Speaker 8 (21:55):
Yep, Actually there's three packs. Actually there's one standard definition
that's one ninety nine high depth is two nine nine
and actually both together actual two nine nine. So it's
not bad deal in my opinion.

Speaker 4 (22:08):
But you know, yeah, and then is it all episodes
are just the most recent ones actually.

Speaker 8 (22:15):
Ones I saw Snack that has a few more, because
I think they start first. But on the Raw ones,
I believe they started with the old school Raw, so
you can pick that up.

Speaker 4 (22:25):
See what I need? What I need so I can
clean out my storage room and get rid of a
bunch of DHS tapes. Is I just want to know
that all the episodes of Raw are available at some
point if I want to go back and watch all
the old episodes, then I can kind of pick and
choose a few and get rid of like twenty boxes
of videotapes. But because you know, I want to save
a few of them, because I kind of like the
old commercials and you know, the top episodes I want
to be try. But I want there to be just

(22:48):
WW to release the complete set of Raw. I don't
want anyone editing stuff out. I want complete sets of
Raw for each year on DVD or on demand, so
that I know when I want to go back and relive,
you know, a six month period or something. I have it.
I have it, and right now I have to rely
on my old videotapes collecting dust taking up the space.
Uh well, anyway, Chris, anything else for us?

Speaker 8 (23:08):
Actually? And one more and more as the point actually
noticed when earlier when he was having problems, we actually
noticed the miss was actually getting more heat than him
back in the day, like you know, around risking in
twenty five. Yep, it was uh of vahe one. We
saw him doing an interview with UH with the mis
and like you know, they just talked to him. It
seemed like Morrison really didn't have anything to say. You
just kind of like parenting what the Mess was saying.

(23:30):
So we kind of noticed that problems back then.

Speaker 4 (23:32):
Yeah, yeah, well, hey Chris, thanks to the call. We're
gonna keep her all through calls. We got those tons
of people on hold, more people in nine now than before.
I can't even count that high. Let's go now to
Erico two one two thanks to Collins. Please state your
name and where you're from.

Speaker 3 (23:44):
Anyway, It's Ken from New York City.

Speaker 4 (23:46):
Hey Ken, good hear from you. What's in your righte today?

Speaker 3 (23:49):
That three things to say hopefully what we'll be clicking
on the other. But first off, is it unique you
think how Ren Jordan kind of went in the cheap
way to win that match last night, you know, kind
of a little heelish right there. Also kind of John Cena,
you know, the way he kind of trade away Barrett
a little heelish. I know, obviously they're in this huge feud,

(24:10):
but kind of that overaggression. You don't really usually see
that in the in the baby face, and especially with
the Randy Orton thing. He kind of did that twice
in that match to win. So I thought that was.

Speaker 4 (24:22):
Interesting specifically about what Orton did seemed maybe not basic.

Speaker 3 (24:27):
Well, the distraction of the rest. Then he came in
and and I thought the second thing that he did,
but he came in again and and did the r KO. Yeah,
two things that like usually I guess the heel would
be doing in a tag match, especially, it seemed.

Speaker 4 (24:42):
To me, and I'm trying to memory wise make sure
I'm not leaving something out, but I'm looking at the report,
but it seemed like it was kind of fighting fire
with fire in the sense that that other there were
other distractions going on with Riley, and he was just
kind of returning, returning the favor to an extent, Jason
didn't did that either of those jump out at you?

Speaker 5 (24:58):
No, not really, But at the same time, I can't
completely rule out something with Orton and Seena down the road.
They just the way they set them up with the
hug and everything else is being so happy. It almost
looked like, well, if we want to go back to this,
we can you know, we've got the seed planted now
and we can tell a nice breakup story if we
want to. And I hope that's not the plan because

(25:18):
I still think there's money in Orton is a heel,
and I don't think there's money in Orton versus Sceena
at WrestleMania.

Speaker 3 (25:25):
Yeah, I mean kind of looked like maybe see them
punk and Seena's coming into fruition.

Speaker 4 (25:31):
Yeah, Yeah, I'm interesting where that goes and how long
it goes. You know, we were talking about long ago,
Oh it's seen a Barrett gonna last to a WrestleMania
or is he not gonna wrestle Undertaker? Is that going
to be you know, maybe the last chance to have
that match at a WrestleMania And you know, are they
gonna do a scene of punk fewd but haven't been
short or could see a Punk actually be the next
big long feud for Sena, including a big WrestleMania pay

(25:54):
day for Punk. I mean, I see them Punk headlines
WrestleMania against John C you know, co headlines. Whether there's
a title involved or not. That's a that's depending on
by rate, but that's pretty close to a seven figure
one one night payday for for H for CM Punk.
I mean that five hundred thousand dollars plus is probably
that spot. Again depends on depends on the by rate.

(26:16):
That's a nice pay day for Punk compared to getting instead,
you know, one of the fifty or fifty or eighty
thousand dollars checks for being lower on the card.

Speaker 3 (26:23):
Well, if that's the case, I could see three other
matches without even putting championship. You know, you can have
a triple a shamous match Undertaker against whoever match and
then this match, you know, all non title matches at
Russell Maina. Then you don't even have the title matches
that can where we're word, we're concerned that could be
a decent WrestleMania so far.

Speaker 4 (26:45):
Yeah, and if that's the case too. If if if
Punk Scene is one of five main matches, three of
which are non title and two are, then the paydays
go down for everybody, you know, other than maybe see
but yeah if yeah, you're right, I mean if if
if there's two title matches plus three marquee non title
matches with Triple A Shamous one of them Undertaker, and
then and then punk Sina, Yeah, there's there's five top
matches for you and and yeah, then then the pay

(27:06):
gets kind of spread around a little bit more.

Speaker 5 (27:08):
And you know, I think the issue with that is that, Yeah,
they can put together a nice WrestleMania card that's going
to cater to their usual viewers, but you need more
than that. With WrestleMania, You're you're looking at the casual
fan and without celebrity help, I don't know that that
scenario is going to be enough to really sell this
to the masses.

Speaker 4 (27:27):
Yeah, we're waiting to see how this unfolds. They got
to have something to make it WrestleMania, and and I
still don't know what that is. That's not in focus.
I ken, what else have you got for us?

Speaker 3 (27:36):
Well, I'll make it quick, just because I know you
have a lot of callers. I actually went to my
first r o H show Saturday night. Yeah, yeah, I
was very impressed. I've been to Live the Events. Is
my first r o H show. The Skin Generical matches
Sun like I've never seen before, and I was wondering.
First of all, the first match Norm really talked about

(27:56):
it was the All Night Express versus Two No Names.
That was probably the second best match on the card.
That's a list the audience felt. My question is do
you see anyone in the future? I guess first off,
you guys could talk about talk about it for a
little bit, but I need one in the future kind
of making its way the next stars tomorrow.

Speaker 4 (28:17):
H Jason, have you been seeing too much of our
enough of ROH lately to pick out the H the
person who might be able to rise to the next level,
so to speak?

Speaker 5 (28:26):
You know, I haven't. It's one of my New Year's
resolutions to do more with ROH on the site. And
Chris Shore has already stepped up in that department and
is covering the show weekly and covered Final Battle, and
unfortunately I wanted to see that, but I also wanted
to go to a holiday party that night. Neither one
happened because I left the house around two something to
go Christmas shopping, and by the time we were finally done,

(28:46):
it was eleven thirty at night, and I still have
more to go.

Speaker 4 (28:50):
And you've got a Sunday night work schedule, a Monday
night work schedule, a Tuesday night work schedule, and you know,
probably a take it or leave it Wednesday. But yeah,
it's crazy, and I didn't see it yet either. But
I'm looking at the line I mean looking looking at
the lineup and what other people say about you know,
our James Caldell and Sean Radikin actually has stories in
the Torch newsletter this week on that pay per view
you know, Christopher Daniels and homicide there. We know what

(29:12):
they do. I mean, they're probably not gonna go to
w WE, but who knows. You know, I went to
tout seum Punk would be shooting with John Seen at
this point if you asked me two years ago, I
love the Briscoes. I shocked that TNA hasn't brought him
in yet to be a fresh tag team, and so
I like them. Claudio has had a chance at w
w E and and then uh ended up not staying there.

Speaker 5 (29:34):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (29:34):
Same with Colt Cabana, who I still think has you know,
especially with Punk gaining some influence and those those two
being good friends, still has a chance because of his
size and his genique personality. Two uh to stand out,
Davy Richards roder Strong. I mean, they're at the top
of our O. H. There's certainly possibilities to maybe be
brought into developmental you know, El Jenerico. I don't know

(29:54):
if he's the style of worker. I don't know if
Kevin Steen is body type wise, but maybe. But I
don't think there's like a huge buzz on like that
that one guy anymore. You know, Santi DUT's so small,
you know, and and and and I don't know, you know,
he's already been to TNA and done the X Division stuff.
So yeah, I don't know. I mean, I think it's
you know, it's a it's a nice lineup, and they
can put on a really good card of some good matches.

(30:17):
But I don't, you know, I don't know that there's
that that crew like we had five six, seven years
ago where you're just look and you go you you you, you,
you you and you and five years are going to
be in one of you know, are going to be
making you know, high six figures main eventing for ww E.
I don't. I don't think we kind of get that
feeling anymore.

Speaker 5 (30:32):
I don't either, but I say I gotta shire. It
seems like there's a bit of a resurgence going on
right now. I think part of it, though, is probably
attribute a little to the fact you do have guys
like Sheldon Benjamin, Christopher Daniels, Charlie has hamas side all
going back. You've got a little more stock than you
had before, so that's gonna help. But I do get,
you know, just from all the positive reaction we've been

(30:54):
getting since Chris started up the ROH coverage again, I
get the feeling that there's a lot of people that
are getting more excited about the company than they were
even last year at this time.

Speaker 10 (31:06):
Need an extra dose of positivity in your wrestling podcasts.
Will come join me Alan frel Over in the Progress
Paradise at Pterboo torch vip as we mask on the
bright side of wrestling and focus on some of the
great matches and shows from around the world, be it
the US, Japan, Europe, or Mexico. There's always a place

(31:26):
for wrestlings past in the Paradise too, and we've done
fun historical shows such as the We Love Liger series
celebrating the glorious career of Jusian Thunderliger and our eye
was there when shows where our guests will join me
to talk about a classic bout that they were in
attendance for. We love variety and you can expect lots
of it at the prorest Paradise. Detailed pwof Torch VIP

(31:49):
subscription information and a list of all the VIP benefits
is available at pterwrew Torch vip info dot com. And yes,
all VIP podcasts are compatible with popular podcast apps on
iPhone and Android devices, or you can stream them directly
from our ad free VIP mobile site. See you in
the Paradise.

Speaker 4 (32:12):
Yeah, and we're we're I mean, I know people know this,
and I should also update for those who did apply
to be contributors to PW Torch, which had been a
long time since we opened up up applications for that,
and we got near I got nearly two hundred fifty
applications and I'm it's taken me a while to go
through them, but I want by the you know, by
or within the next few weeks, I want to have
gotten back to a lot of people and set things up.
But we have some definitely have some people who are

(32:34):
going to help us amp up our our ro OH
and d g USA and evolve coverage in twenty eleven.
Sean Radikin does a great job with what he you know,
with the work that he does, but we want to
bring some other perspectives into it, and we'll be doing
more on the torch side of things with that, So
hopefully we can have a have have better conversations about
r O H and d g USA going into twenty eleven.
Because yeah, I like Jason, I like you. That's one
of my New Year's resolutions too.

Speaker 3 (32:56):
Yes, all I was gonna say before that I thought
Kings of Wrestling would be a perfect matchup for Beer
Money in uh in TNA. Like it's like their body
size is they like, I like saw the feud in
my head already, like while watching it. So if I
had to guess anyone that can move on to a
bigger promotion, that's who I would have saw. But I

(33:19):
guess this is kind of just like the reason why
I think rh is getting all this probably you know
in your in the newsletters, and is that people are
just tired of the you know, the t genius and
those five eight to fifty thirteen year old kids that
ares w W fans now are going to be the
future roh fans, you know, and then they're gonna be
complain unless W has this cyclical thing where they're gonna

(33:40):
you know, five years from no when they're gonna grow
up with the fans. So it'll be interesting to see.

Speaker 4 (33:45):
Yeah, I'm I think you might be honest with you king,
with the kings of wrestling, you know, Claudio and Hero,
I think have might have a good chemistry working with
beer money just size wise, look wise, Chrisma.

Speaker 2 (33:57):
Why.

Speaker 4 (33:57):
I just think they kind of fit. They don't. They
don't seem it's I don't It's not a compliment, not
an insult, but I just it's an observation. I think
Tenna would look at them and say, oh, you guys
are indie guys. I think they look at them and say, yeah,
we could probably make something work given the formula that
we use.

Speaker 5 (34:11):
Well, the one guy they had a chance to get that,
they really didn't express all that much interest in was
Roderick Strong, the r H champion, and I talked to
a couple of people in TNA about it, and you
know there was some interest, like yeah, we'd have to
find you know, it's the same Roderick we saw the
last time he was with the company, and he really
hasn't progressed. He's he always looks smaller in person than

(34:34):
he does on the r o H shows. It's just
the usual knocks against him. And I guess that's one
thing r H has going for them is a lot
of their crew right now have already either been there
and done that in TNA, or for whatever reason just don't.
They don't appeal to TNA, So I think they're going
to be able to keep a lot of their crew around.

(34:54):
You know, w W could always come calling, but that's
always a threat. But one thing I think to keep
an eye on going forward, As I mentioned, you know,
it's a lot of it is bringing in names from
the pass and just bigger names. I think they're going
they really are going to miss Gabe Sepalski because one
of his strengths is talent scouting. You know, he was
the guy who assembled that the great roster that they

(35:16):
had that, you know that when so many of them
have gone on to do bigger and better things. And
now that he's working for Dragon Gate, I don't know
that they have anyone in that company that's got that
eye for talent that Gay possesses.

Speaker 4 (35:27):
We've got to get Sean radikin on the show where
his schedule he's one of the Torch columnists and his
beat is the uh, you know, the indies or ro
oh and d g USA and stuff, and his schedule
that hasn't matched up with the live cast schedule, and
so we got to get him on as a on
it and announce it far enough ahead of time too
that we can get some some fans who definitely have
questions ready for Sean to join us thrown the live

(35:48):
cast because he can give his perspective and insight. Also,
let's we got through two calls in the first half hour.
Let's see if we can get through a few more
at a faster pace in the second half hour here,
and we'll start with Erico two to four. Thanks for joiningus,
p W George Lifecast. Please stay to name it where
you're from.

Speaker 11 (36:04):
Us from Steve from DC.

Speaker 4 (36:05):
Hey, Steve, thanks for calling what's on your mind.

Speaker 12 (36:09):
So I've been listening to a lot of the PW Torch,
Lavecaps and Abbia the last couple of days kind of
noticed the scheme that, you know, between Bruce and James
and you guys and the around people that you kind
of think that WWE creative has really been dropping the
ball recently. But I you know, looking back, like to

(36:30):
where WW was last year, where they had you know,
Jeff Huddy, Seawn, Michael, Triple H, the Undertaker, Chris, Jericho,
Batista all on board at that point. A year later,
I mean the fact that they're still even at the
level that they are as far as rating.

Speaker 11 (36:47):
Skill and virates.

Speaker 12 (36:48):
You know, I know that they've dropped, but it still
kind of seems like a mount of miracle.

Speaker 13 (36:52):
What do you guys think?

Speaker 4 (36:53):
Oh, I think I think in the big picture, WWE
stone quite a few things. Well, I think our disappointment
in recent shows. I mean, trust me, we've had weeks
where we've heaped praise on them for some of the
stuff that they've been doing. My disappointment was what they
did on Raw last week, you know, and the final
push for TLC. And I won't go into all all
my criticians of that, but my criticians are very specific

(37:15):
to the specific show or the specific latest chapter in
the storyline. In the big picture, Steve, I think you
make a good point. They've managed. You know, people say, oh,
they haven't developed stars and they don't have enough. You know,
they've been left without a lot of top stars. I
just think when you've got Sean Michaels and who you
got Jerichoho, you got Batista, it does kind of make
sense to push them if things are going reasonably well.

(37:36):
They lost all those guys, and so now I think
they've done a mostly very good job bringing new people
into the mix, you know, Wade Barrett, Dolf Zigler last night,
Daniel Bryant, you know, talk about a surprise there see
them Punk continuing to get elevated. They've got some fresh
faces who are in significant in the in the mix
on a significant level.

Speaker 5 (37:57):
Jason, your thoughts, Yeah, this was a year that had
to happen for WWE. Evince called it the perfect storm,
and he was actually talking about it as a negative
because it affected one of their quarterly numbers. We've been
begging for years now for WWE to freshen things up,
push some different wrestlers other than the usual, and they've
done a great job with it. I mean, who would

(38:18):
have guessed that those guys from NXT would become the
hottest faction that would carry business through the summer? Seamus
has stepped up. I mean, there are a lot of
guys that they have put in positions to shine, and
I don't know that they would have done it had
it not been for injuries and retirements and everything else.
But I'm just happy they have. So I agree with
the caller that it's been a good year from that standpoint,

(38:39):
But I also look back on some of the departures,
and they knew a lot of those departures were coming.
Did they bother to use any of those guys to
create new stars or elevate anyone?

Speaker 4 (38:50):
Steve any follow up from you?

Speaker 12 (38:53):
Yeah, I mean I think they're still kind of in
the midst of that. I mean John Michael's did in
elevant anyone, I guess Jennifer d obviously Jeff Party really
didn't accept on that account.

Speaker 8 (39:04):
Pop.

Speaker 12 (39:04):
But I really do think that you know, some of them,
that's them that they're building slowly in the ratings, you know,
aren't where they used to be. I think a year
from now, you know, ww's gonna be on the f play.
I just don't see anyway on.

Speaker 4 (39:16):
Cancy they had. I was distracted just for a minute
because we just got ratings in Ferrah here, so we
got breaking news. The last nights Rod did a three
point two seven rating, which is up from the three
hour rating of three point zero five last week, up
from the two hour rating of three point one three
two weeks ago. And it's oh, it's only one one hunter,

(39:38):
so basically tied with the November twenty second show. But
if you look at the last thirteen weeks, it's basically
tied for the highest rated show. So there was some
interest in WWE coming out of the TLC pay per
view and uh, probably a relatively week Monday night football game,
even with all the drama of the outdoor game in
Minnesota and Brett Farv and all that, you know, I

(39:58):
think that it probably helped a little bit. But I
think it is encouraging that that a main event, well,
you know, they have some stars in the main event.
It's not like they didn't. You know, Randy Orton's a
big star, but they got I think a decent amount.
I mean, the mis Alex Riley, Seamus, Jerry Lawler, John Morrison,
all in the main event, and and that's what the
show is built towards. And the show did the highest rating,

(40:19):
basically tied for the highst rating in the last thirteen weeks.
And I'm not looking at a chart with numbers beyond
the last thirteen. I'm sure James Caldwell will put up
a good historical perspective on where this falls for the year,
but that that's a good night. And also just among
men eighteen to thirty four, which is one of WWE
and USA Network's key demographics, it was the best the
best performance in the last thirteen weeks. They also did

(40:41):
really well with teenagers overall on cable, number four show
on cable, behind the NFL on ESPN, and very close
to number one among male teams. It almost beat out
the NFL. So anyway, good news for WWE. So you know,
it kind of backs up with you're saying, Steve that
you know this isn't they're not. They're not in terribly rush.

Speaker 12 (41:02):
Yeah, And last thing before I got I got a
lot of collars. I think the reason TNA is not
taking Robert Strong is because he looks steffed by jams Kamma.

Speaker 4 (41:12):
Thanks, thanks to appreciate your call. All right, let's go
to aera code sixty five one. Thanks for calling. Please
state your name and where you're from.

Speaker 14 (41:19):
Hey, guys, it's Mike from Woodbury. How you doing today?

Speaker 4 (41:22):
Doing good?

Speaker 2 (41:22):
Mike?

Speaker 4 (41:23):
Good, hear from you. Did you make it off to
the game?

Speaker 14 (41:25):
Be back on this No, No, I'm not gonna brave
that kind of weather for that team.

Speaker 4 (41:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 14 (41:33):
I'm strapped for time and you're strapped for time, so
you already touched a lot on the Dolph Tegler. And
I think last night was the begin beginning of the
super push for him because he's shown he can go
in the ring and he does need to improve a
bit on the stick, but he got some heat last
night and he's got Vicky by his side, and there
is history between Edge and Picky. Edge is now the

(41:54):
world champion, and I think you can roll the.

Speaker 4 (41:57):
Dice this year with the.

Speaker 14 (41:58):
SmackDown made event for Mania. That's going to be like
the fourth on fourth down on the car this April,
and you can take a chance. I really don't see
why he can't win an elimination chamber and put him
in that match. I don't see any reason why not.
And I also think that he's got a very bright

(42:21):
future him. He's really impressed me the last couple of
months with this US title runner at a kind of
title run.

Speaker 4 (42:27):
I do think go ahead and take that. I was
having a bump somebody from the chat room.

Speaker 5 (42:30):
Well, I don't know the golf against Edge is going
to sell any WrestleMania byes, but I don't know what
is on this SmackDown side, with the exception of Undertaker
and his streak, and so I agree that you can
roll the dice, and I think it goes beyond WrestleMania.
I want to see them get back to what SmackDown
used to be, where yeah, you're going to have your

(42:51):
established stars, but that's also where undercard and mid card
players want to be because they know there's room for
there's there's room to be elevated, and that just had
been happening on SmackDown lately. Alberto del Rio seems like
the exception. It's been all about the usual suspects of
Caine and Edge and his guys at a big show.
Guys have been around for a long time. Raymus Terio

(43:13):
and so you know, whether it's Dolph Zigler or caval
Is another guy like to see them roll the dice
on and Jack Swagger, any of those guys elevate someone KOFE.
Kingston that they've all been hanging in mid carent purgatory
too long and so yeah, what they're doing on SmackDown
now isn't working. So shake it up a little bit
and start using those guys. And I think Dolph after

(43:34):
that performance last night, is probably at the top of
that list.

Speaker 4 (43:38):
And just to let people know, because I've been so
busy with so much stuff. I even though I watched
her all last night, was in the date with plugs.
It was out of my routine and I kind of
forgot part of the Today that tonight's SmackDown Live, So
check out USA Network if you haven't DVRT it. I
don't know if it's gonna on TVO or d v arts,
if it's gonna automatically record if you normally have SmackDown
recording on Fridays, but should be an interesting show. I'm

(43:59):
I'm curious what the fee how SmackDown will feel different
tonight without or being alive, and you know they'll have
some raw, raw interaction. But I think hopefully they you know,
keep the SmackDown feel. Otherwise, you know, we don't. We
don't get to see smacked Down live and that that
kind of adrenaline of we're on right now, there's no net.
We're trying to pop a big rating for USA Network.

(44:19):
I'm curious to see how tonight show goes and just
what the feel of the show is. Mike, anything else
for us.

Speaker 14 (44:25):
Well, I just think, uh, roll the dice. I'm looking
forward to the royal rumble and the breathing room we
have between now and then I was on ww B
dot Comments Dream. It's just so refreshing to see only
on their pay per view schedule, just three pay per views.

Speaker 9 (44:39):
Between now and the beginning of April. I mean, what
a what a.

Speaker 4 (44:42):
Sigh of relief.

Speaker 9 (44:43):
So I have a great restress show.

Speaker 14 (44:45):
Guys, thanks for taking my thought.

Speaker 4 (44:46):
Great good here from me again, Mike, thanks for calling
again in a while. All right, let's go to the
next caller, Eric code nine to one three, Thanks for calling.
Please state your name and where you're from.

Speaker 13 (44:55):
And Brad and Nobland Park that net member, where's O?

Speaker 4 (45:00):
Where's Overland Park?

Speaker 13 (45:02):
Kansas City?

Speaker 4 (45:03):
Cool? Yep, go ahead, right, And a question.

Speaker 13 (45:08):
Jason, he's been particularly down on Cody. I mean, Cody
Rhoads's dashing character same as getting stale and stuff. What
do you think is the next what he should be
doing or looking towards, maybe even elevate or.

Speaker 15 (45:24):
Go to the next higher standard.

Speaker 5 (45:26):
I just think that the dashing Cody Rhodes character is
mid card at best. Maybe maybe you can plug him
in for a title match on SmackDown or something. But
I guess I have higher hopes for Cody Rhads than that.
I think he does have some talent. I just don't
know what else they can really get out of this
dashing bit. And I would start by putting knee pads
on the guy. I know it's seems petty, but my

(45:49):
gott it drives me nuts. And you know, just eventually
break away from the dashing characters. Not something needs to
happen overnight. It's fine for right now. But you know, Mike,
most WWE heels he needs some have been ring credibility.
These guys don't win without cheating, or at least ninety
nine percent of them. And you know, I think that's
been a real problem in WWE, that that's catching up

(46:12):
with them, and that's why you continue to see the
big matches of Mania tend to be Babyface versus Babyface
because they don't build their heels up in a way
that it feels like a big showdown match.

Speaker 1 (46:23):
We're about to go to a commercial break. Whyles's sen
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(46:43):
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Speaker 4 (46:56):
I think you know they clearly made a deliberate choice
to flow Cody down, put him in the Rick the
Model Martelle level. He's young enough. I mean, when Rick
became Rick the Model, he was, or title Santanna became
El Matat or I mean it was late in their careers.
You know, they had already done strike for US eight.
Rick had already been a WA World he baby champion
for a number of years title, Centen had already been
Icy champ. But Cody's kind of slotted in that kind

(47:18):
of weird, kind of mid car, mid car WWE gimmicky role.
I think there's still very much potential for an upside.
I thought it was interesting when when they no longer
teamed up, When Ted and Cody didn't team up, that
word kind of got out that they didn't necessarily always
get along great when they were with Orton, and that
they're you know that they were kind of relieved to

(47:39):
be on different a part in doing their own thing.
I don't think either of them have come out of
the group with Orton, the faction with Orton, with any
kind of scheme that I thought maybe they that they
could have had they not been sidetracked with you know,
some probably less than main event gimmicks. Cody does his
gimmick well, I mean it's kind of a riff a
little bit on who he really is or you know,
his looks and that type of thing. But yeah, it's

(48:01):
it's far from the fast track. And I think how
they handle things differently with him, both he and Dibiassi
based on just rub and shoulders. With Orton could have
been stronger on SmackDown, but to a degree. I mean,
I think we've seen in the Ring some of the
reasons why they weren't pushed. DEBIASI hasn't been really colorful,
and Cody Rhodes, like you said, Jason doesn't really wrestle

(48:21):
like he's got a ton of credibility. He's a little
bit soft. So you know, I just think it'll come
in time. But I don't think. I think physic man
just thought this wasn't this wasn't their time.

Speaker 5 (48:30):
And you know, sadly, I see history repeating itself with Nexus.
It's Wade Barrett and everybody else, just like Legacy was
Randy Orton, those other two guys.

Speaker 4 (48:40):
Yeah, you know, and Evolution was a little bit better
as far as that went, because he had the elder
guy and Flair the current main eventor in Triple H
and then two clearly you know, future top level guys
in Orton and Batista or working you know, we're were
elevated within the group. I think Legacy was treated differently
in that in that faction. They Cody and Ted were

(49:01):
treated more so as his lackeys, and and so a
little bit more like you said, like nexus. But you know,
maybe at that point in their career and with the
depth in WWE, they felt it was it was the
right thing to do, you know, and maybe they've proven
it's proven to be true to a certain extent in
terms of what Cody's delivered. You know, there were some
questions about what Cody you know, Cody's dedication or what
he was the intensity he was bringing on a on

(49:23):
a day to day and week to week basis and
DEBIASI had some good matches, but personality wise, I don't
think he's quite figured out who he's going to be.
There's a little bit of a dryness there. So, you know,
I think they're kind of mid cards, so that they
vinceus in a way, protecting them by by trying to
fill in their weakness and give them time to grow
as characters. Brad anything else for us, well have you seen?

Speaker 13 (49:41):
That's also part of the problem is that ww's hasn't
really produced any kind of good long term mid mid
card feuds. I mean, take out Generico and Steam Steam Fude,
I mean that was well over a year. It started
on the mid card and even development all the way
to the to the top of the cards. And you know,
I'll tell you what that's that's few that's gotten needs

(50:02):
to buy two uh r oh DVDs.

Speaker 4 (50:06):
Well, I think with WWE, the structure is going to
be a little different than ROH and that there's a
stronger hierarchy, and there is it's almost military like in
the sense that you kind of earn your rank and
you're not going to get a lot of TV time,
and you're in the mid card for a reason. And
that reason isn't it exists and isn't going to go
away just because they want to elevate a mid card

(50:28):
act for some reason. Your your mid card because they
see you as mid carters. They don't really put you
in a position as a mid card act to take off. Now,
Daniel Bryant kind of did. I think they he took
off more than they expected. And that was a lot
of things kind of coming together and and and having
the right friends, and having the right reputation and carrying
himself the right way and being a foil for coal
that they had fun with. But in general, you know,

(50:49):
You're not going to see a mid card act emerge
unless it's man is ready to turn someone from a
mid carter into a main of better. You know, we're roh.
They're looking for anyone to catch fire. You know, anything
that gets hot, they're going to move it up because
there isn't that set hierarchy anyway, Brad, thanks very much
for your call. I haven't given the phone numbers out yet,
so I might as well do that at least once.
The number is six four, six seven to one nine
A two eight. That's six or six seven nine two eight.

(51:12):
We have a few more people on hold, but there's
a possibility we will get to you if you call
us right now. I'm actually looking at the pole lines.
We've only got three people on hold, so if you
want to be a fourth in line, give us a
call right now. We should get to you. Let's go
to UH aeric code eight one seven. Thanks for calling.
Please state your name and where you're from.

Speaker 16 (51:29):
Just Jimmy from Portland. Say you guys too.

Speaker 4 (51:32):
Good, Jimmy. If I gotta ask you to speak up,
you're you're pretty soft compared to us.

Speaker 16 (51:34):
I think is that better?

Speaker 4 (51:36):
Oh? Much better?

Speaker 8 (51:38):
Okay?

Speaker 16 (51:39):
Uh just just a couple of real quick things. One
because if we'd be looking at possibly them making the
titles important again by letting Zena go chase after the
Icy title and start kind of another crand slam run.
And secondly, can we see Triple H come for royal

(52:00):
Rumbles win and then let him headline WrestleMania was shamous
after he wins elimination and Elimination Chamber. And then three,
I know y'all were talking about Seena Barrett was rushed,
but really and truly win has a program lasted more
than six months. It's been six months, so it seems
kind of natural for it to be over at this point.

(52:22):
So kill put me on hold.

Speaker 8 (52:23):
I appreciate it absolutely.

Speaker 4 (52:24):
Thanks thanks for the question. I think, Sina Barrett, it
felt rushed in the sense that there was a major
happening when Sena got fired, and so it wasn't that
the program overall was rushed, because you can say, well, yeah,
time wise, it was average or above average. I mean,
Edge John Cena seemed to feud for eighteen months back
in the day, but I mean there had been fews
that have lasted longer. But I think the problem was

(52:45):
when Scena got fired, it felt like they could have
gotten a lot more out of him being gone. Like Jason,
you talked about actually take him off TV for a
few weeks, have the guts to do that and live
with the consequences because of the payoffs that would come later.
So I think that's probably where we're getting, is is it?
It sort of felt like, let's actually the last couple
of weeks, it was just six weeks worth of material
thrown into two weeks.

Speaker 5 (53:04):
Yeah, I agree with Dad. And as far as John
Cena and the Intercontinental title, I mean, the title wasn't
even on the line and there's been no mention of that,
so I just don't see it happening.

Speaker 4 (53:13):
Yeah, And it's tough to imagine, Seena. You know, I
get what you're saying in terms of Jimmy, in terms
of you know, it would elevate the ICY title, but
it might also at the same time bring Sena down.
I just don't know I've seen a such a big
star that, you know, within this era of WWE. It's
like imagining Rick Flair when he was going to be

(53:34):
a champion, deciding to go after the US title or
the World TV title or Hulk Hogan going after the
Intercontinental title, or Steve Austin, you know, going after the
ICY title after he had had world title reigns. It's
just not something that's done with starts at his level,
and I don't know that would necessarily elevate the title,
and I don't know that that would help the ICY
title as much as it might you might think at
first glance, because the ICY title should be a place

(53:57):
that is reserved for people trying to build their way
up the main event level. You know, some people visited
the main event but didn't stay there for very long,
and the IC title is a way to try to
get back. In other ways, it's the highest anybody will
ever go, but they're there as kind of a gatekeeper
to knock people down, to keep them from getting that belt.
I think that should be the IC title. I think
when John Cena comes in and holds it, it almost
stucks the oxygen out of the whole IC Division because

(54:19):
it's hard to imagine other people in the IC Division
being treated as his equal. So yeah, I love the
spirit of what you're saying, because I'm all for titles
being important, but I don't know what's Seena that that
would necessarily pay off the way that you might think
at first glance.

Speaker 5 (54:33):
And I think we're in a pretty good place right
now with the US and Intercontinental title, better than we
have been in the past, at least where you know
that they don't just not include them on favor for views,
and they don't just forget about them for weeks at
a time on television. You're seeing those titles defended consistently.

Speaker 4 (54:48):
Yep, yep, I agree with you there. All right, let's
go to Eric code five to six to one. Thanks
for calling, Thanks or holding Please states to name and
where you're from. Hey, you doing doing great man? Thanks
for calling. What's on your mind today?

Speaker 15 (55:00):
I kind of had a business question for you. I
know that I guess. Let me think about a phrase it.
How have you dealt with the struggle of like, let's
say you want to put out a criticism on somebody
who maybe like a good contact or friend in the
wrestling business, Like, do you ever struggle with you know,
I want to put this out there and be honest,

(55:21):
but this person's going to be a lot of good
info over the years. And I'll by the same token,
have you ever put out any criticism on somebody and
then had them come back and been like, oh, everything's cool,
there's no problem. When you thought that maybe you know
burnham Bridge or something.

Speaker 4 (55:37):
Yes, for sure. The second thing you said, I I
mean the people that I've talked to over the years
have that had a wide range of reactions to criticism. Some,
you know, to me the best friends I've had. And
then are the ones who you criticize them and they
respect your opinion enough that they call you up and say, yeah,
you're right, I screwed up there, or that wasn't my

(55:59):
best problem, or boy that this angle sucks and boy
did you hit it the nail on the head, or
they call you up and disagree and say, you know,
I think you're wrong on this and here's why, and
and have a discussion with you on it. There's other
people who who have not taken all the criticism. You know,
I'm not going to name names, but there's definitely wrestlers
who I had a you know what I thought was
a pretty good rapport with and and had talked to

(56:20):
over a span of time, and then when things went
a direction I didn't like and I got critical. You know,
the calls weren't returned the way that they were in
the past, or you know, in the case of a
Jim Cornett, you know, he starts, you know, issuing death
threats over the telephone to me and saying just like vile,
nasty things about my mother, who he never met, you know.
So so that stuff has happened too, you know, it's

(56:41):
it's been the whole range as for holding back what
I say because somebody is a source. You know, this
sounds so you know, idealistic and you know and happy
and all that, but I really try to treat everybody
that I write about as if they are my source,
as if they are a source in the sense that
I think if I don't want to say something about

(57:01):
somebody without thinking that there's someone that I might want
to talk to on the phone tomorrow and defend what
I have to say and the way that I say it.
You know, when some people just put themselves out there
as just such you know, jokes or losers or pricks
where it's like, you know, gloves are off. I mean,
they just you know, they bring it up because they're
just you know, saying disgusting things or acting so cruel

(57:21):
or doing such overt damage to the to the wrestling
promotion that they're part of. But otherwise, you know, I
just I don't try. I try to treat everybody like
they're a friend who has told me, hey, be honest.
It's your job to be honest. Jason, do you want
to answer that?

Speaker 5 (57:36):
Yeah, I mean we're always right first, and I guess
if there's you never feel like you need to worry
about something, worry later. I mean, you have to be
honest and you have to give your real take on things,
and if you hurt some feelings along the way, life
goes on. I've also had the sources that I've written
something about negative that, and I've had the same experiences

(57:58):
way where you lose some people because so that they
can't take criticism. But I also some people that initially
were surprised, like you know, I thought we were boys
that kind of thing. But then once you explain yourself
to them and let them know that no, this changes nothing,
you'll gain their respect because of that. They like that
you're actually willing to continue to, you know, critique them

(58:20):
in a fair manner.

Speaker 6 (58:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (58:22):
I think it's it's reassuring to people who who we
talk to that we if we say something positive about
their work. It actually still means something even though we're friends,
because they learn we would say something negative if if
there was something negative going on too, and and you know,
I mean there's no doubt I would have more inside
information if I was willing to trade you know, praise

(58:42):
or hold back this criticism or you know, do that
or or him and ah or ride the fence or
you know, weird things really carefully and all that. And
that's just not my nature. I can't. I couldn't do
my job and do that. I don't, you know. It's
it's like people say, tell the truth. You don't have
to juggle your lies and try to remember your lies.
And I don't like to negotiate my opinions based on
that kind of thing. And so it's cost me. You know,

(59:04):
there's stories that other people have broken and I haven't.
And I can trace it back to me saying something
when that person was in the news and other people not,
you know, And I gotta live with that, but I can.
I feel pretty good about it. Man.

Speaker 15 (59:19):
Anyways, That's something I've always been of interested in.

Speaker 4 (59:21):
Yeah, no, it's a cool question. I mean I've gotten
that at you know, different times. In different formats over
the year. It is. You know, it's an interesting part
of my job. I don't know how interesting are other people,
but I'm glad.

Speaker 15 (59:30):
Yes, can I run one more thing by?

Speaker 6 (59:33):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (59:33):
Sure?

Speaker 15 (59:36):
Like probably eight nine months ago, I called up and
I was just praising them. Is I think that guy's
been awesome ever since. Like, I think his improvements have
been so big every year, And I think that guy's
just taking off. Like I think in another six years,
he's just gonna be bigger every year. He just he
improves so much, just exponentially every single year. Where do

(59:56):
you think he'll be in six years? And how do
you stand on them? I haven't been able to read
everything lately, but just kind of your thoughts on the
mis of now and in the future and exquipment hold
that appreciate it?

Speaker 6 (01:00:06):
Sure?

Speaker 8 (01:00:06):
Yep.

Speaker 4 (01:00:06):
Yeah. We always put people on hold. It's up to
all the colors whether they want to hang up or
stand hold. So I like to remind people of that.

Speaker 5 (01:00:12):
Now.

Speaker 4 (01:00:12):
Then good question, Matt Jason. What do you think? I mean,
where where's miss in six years? What's his upside?

Speaker 13 (01:00:16):
You know?

Speaker 5 (01:00:17):
I mean, that's it's a really tough question to answer,
just because We don't know what mis has planned for
the rest of his career. If he's in this for life,
is this his peak? You know, you don't know. He
still has a long way to go in the ring.
We saw that, you know, a couple of sloppy spots
in the match with Raymisterio, for example, He's not being
pushed as a true main event heel. It's more as

(01:00:42):
kind of the chicken crap kind of heel. And you know,
if he's going to be a long term main event
heel for them and has to be more than just
this guy's gonna cheat to win or he's not going
to win.

Speaker 17 (01:00:59):
In two thousand, NXT transitioned into the developmental system and
ultimately the brand you see today. On the Torch VIP
podcast NXT Eight years Back, we'll be taking a weekly
look at this page in NXT's early history.

Speaker 18 (01:01:14):
Joined Kelly Wells and me Tom Stout from PWT talks
NXT every Saturday as we go eight years back to
the day to track NXT's rising talents and why they
did or didn't work out exclusively for PW Torch VIP members.

Speaker 4 (01:01:30):
I think with with Miz, there's a lot that we're
going to learn in the next few months, and we're
gonna learn two things. Is Mis up for the job
and is wwe serious about giving him every break possible
to get there? Triple h You got every break possible
to get there for a variety of reasons. He had
some setbacks, paid his dues for a while, but he
got there and and but it took some you know,

(01:01:53):
there was some definite setbacks with miss. Same thing. The
wrestler that I was talking to you last night was
just talking about how how much Mis was disliked at first,
and how much he brought it on himself at times,
and how much of it did have to do with
him taking a non traditional route to get the wrestling
and people resenting.

Speaker 8 (01:02:09):
Him for it.

Speaker 4 (01:02:10):
He's paid dues in a way where I think he
does genuinely have the respect of the Shawn Michaels and
Brett Hart types because they look at him as, yeah, Okay,
you've paid your dues, you've handled it well enough, and
you've grown up before our very eyes, and we're proud
of you and where you are. He's now got to
not let that go to his head and then understand
the weight on his shoulders and get better in the
ring and do what it takes. He's got a lot

(01:02:31):
of natural ability. I don't know that in six years
he's going to be the centerpiece, perennial headliner. Who's you know,
a breakout star that we compare to the best champion
heels or babyfaces ever. But I won't rule that out.
I think that there's a real high upside with him,
but I think it's just yeah, Jason, I think it's
too early to say for sure. Are we're down to
the final couple of minutes. I do want to get

(01:02:52):
to a couple of calls, so please that the two
or three of you who are on hold, we haven't
gotten too yet. Please stand hold. But Jason, before we go,
I do want to give you a chance to make
out of your website and your app, and also throw
out a plug for the membership side.

Speaker 5 (01:03:04):
Absolutely real quick, because I know we're short on time. Tonight,
dot net members can look forward to audio reviews from
Chris Shore and Mark Hermanstein regarding WWE SmackDown Live.

Speaker 6 (01:03:15):
Show, Christian ninety second, more.

Speaker 5 (01:03:18):
Audio recap of the Ring of Honor final battleshow So,
a ton of audio head over to Pro wrestling dot net.
Look for the sign up area right in the middle
of the page, and for as little as five five
dollars and fifty cents a month you can gain access
to all those features.

Speaker 4 (01:03:31):
And I'll just give a quick plug. Pw torch dot
com is our website. Check it out for news every day.
Wadkeller dot com is my blog. I've been putting up one,
two or three articles almost every day since we launched
it a couple of weeks ago. As I joke, it's
ninety eight point five percent. Weigkeller's just me blogging and
putting up with articles. I hope if you haven't yet,
that you'll check it out book market and visit it
every day wadkeller dot com if you're interested. We do

(01:03:53):
have a VIP membership too, and the place to go
is PW torch dot com slash go vip. You can
get fulled you health on pricing and benefits. It's a
great way to show support for what we do here,
and I think we give you a lot of bang
for your back. All right, let's go to our next
caller and one of our final callers of the day.
As long as I can get my computer to on freeze.
There we go. All right, let's go to Eric. Code

(01:04:15):
four four one could be an international complase. State youre
naming where you're from Highway.

Speaker 19 (01:04:21):
Hi, Jason, it's Paul calling from Glasgow, Scotland.

Speaker 4 (01:04:24):
Hey Paul, thanks for colin. What's on your mind today?
And be sort of quick. We're down to a minute,
have you maybe?

Speaker 19 (01:04:28):
Yeah, I'm gonna give you a few quick questions.

Speaker 8 (01:04:31):
For the after show.

Speaker 4 (01:04:32):
Oh great.

Speaker 19 (01:04:33):
Firstly your comments and opinions on Eric Bushow the podcast
and Friday Night and giving the hosts some abuse. And
second lin, can you shed any light on the mysterious
medical condition keeping Desmond Wolf off of PNA for the
past few months?

Speaker 4 (01:04:49):
Yep? And you did? You have a third question?

Speaker 19 (01:04:51):
And basically, if Jim Cornete worked in any other industry
other than pro wrestling, he would have been in jail
by now.

Speaker 5 (01:04:58):
That's all.

Speaker 2 (01:04:59):
Thanks.

Speaker 4 (01:05:00):
Thanks. I didn't get the last part. If you're still there, Paul,
tell us the third part again.

Speaker 19 (01:05:04):
Oh sorry, I'm saying if Jim Cole may happened to
work in any other industry beside pro wrest when it
would probably have spent time in jail over the years.

Speaker 5 (01:05:13):
I do believe.

Speaker 4 (01:05:14):
All right, thanks, we literally are out of time. Sorry
to the other callers on hold. I seriously thought we
had another minute left and it just blew right past me.
So thanks everybody for listening in the archive. If you
listen to us live, we already got cut off, so
sorry for not saying goodbye formally. We will sign off
on the live free portion of PW Torch live cast,
and VP members listening to us, please stick around for

(01:05:35):
the VP after show.

Speaker 2 (01:05:37):
Thank you for using blog talk radio.

Speaker 4 (01:05:39):
Goodbye, all right, Jason, I want to get to two
more calls, and we got and get some cool questions
in and I just mismanaged time there, So my apologies
on that. Poor Paul. I didn't even get the third
part of his question because when I asked him to
repeat it then I also realized we weren't on the
air live anymore, and I totally zoned out. And I
know you're not good with that English accents we pick up.

Speaker 5 (01:06:00):
I think I got that last one that says awesome good.
I don't think it was a question. I think it
was more of a statement about Jim Cornett and if
he worked in any other industries than wrestling, he'd promotes,
he'd end up doing jail time for just you know,
some of his behavior. At least I hope that's what
he said, because otherwise I'm really hearing something that maybe
I wanted to.

Speaker 4 (01:06:17):
I don't know, Yeah, I don't Yeah, I think, you know,
there's probably something to that he took a baseball back
to Casey O'Connor's car back in the Smoking mount wrestling days,
if I if I remember right, there were a lot
of people with tempers doing crazy things in Smoking Mountain,
but I think I think Cornet had the baseball bat
and then ward as a badge of honor for a
while afterwards. Yeah, I mean, Cornett's got a temper, and

(01:06:39):
you know, people enable him, and because he's a witty
guy and in a lot of ways a good guy,
you know, but also flawed and holds grudges like crazy
and doesn't control his temper. And you know, it's certainly
done some things that that you know, ended a chance
of me considering a friendship with him, And I think
it's mutual and fair enough for adults, and you don't
have to be best friends with everybody in the world.

(01:07:01):
So yeah, yeah, but I don't know. I mean, I
think I think it was Jimmy Delray who tried to
run me over in his car once, but or no, no,
he chased after me in my car with a with
a with an empty beer bottle. That's what it was.

Speaker 5 (01:07:13):
I was there.

Speaker 4 (01:07:15):
And I was like, you know, Jimmy Delray looks kind
of drunk and doesn't have a lot to lose. I
think I'm just gonna get out of this situation. So
I'm like, all right, I see her, and I was
about to leave anyway or whatever, and all of a sudden,
there he is in the hotel lobby looking for me,
and he sees me in my car and he's just
like he's got the empty beer bottle, And yeah, that
was That was funny.

Speaker 5 (01:07:31):
And I sat down on a bench next to him
and just reminded him that, you know, I could own
everything that he does.

Speaker 6 (01:07:38):
Well.

Speaker 4 (01:07:38):
I think Donnie was one of our friend Donnie had
the most fun with that situation. I can't my memory
is not not filling at all the details, but I
remember he was like upset about it was. I don't
know if he's going to call the hotel or call
the police, or or maybe he was against me. I
can't remember it was Donnie, never quite know, Hi, don't
all right? His other questions Desmond Wolf in his medical condition.

(01:08:02):
I've pressed on that a couple of times, within you know,
within reason, you know, because I kind of sensed maybe
if it was if he wanted it out, he would
have gotten it out. And if it's a medical reason,
it's probably the last thing he wants is to have
somebody ask him about it again, especially a meddling reporter.
And all I found out through in intermediary is it's personal,

(01:08:22):
and that was his answer. He's choosing not to share
it because he just believes, you know, people's medical situations
are private, and I respect that, and he chose not
to go into it. So, Jason, do you have anything
more on that?

Speaker 5 (01:08:32):
Yeah? I mean I've been told what it is, but
it is a medical deal, and so it's all I
can tell people. It's not related to the head trauma issue,
which everyone assumed is what kept him out of w WA.

Speaker 4 (01:08:43):
Yep. Yeah, And you know, and beyond that, it's it's yeah,
it's it's between him and his doctor and his wrestling promotion.
And but he's coming back, right Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:08:52):
In fact, they've already said there, they're starting to dishy.
Carter has been teasing that he'll be back with Brutus
Magnuss like lending brawling.

Speaker 4 (01:09:02):
Excellent, excellent. Yeah, And I like that take team and
I like those two wrestlers.

Speaker 5 (01:09:06):
Yeah, I think I think it's kind of a step back,
I think from what a lot of people would like
to see Desmond Wolf doing right now. But I think
it's good for Brutus Magnus. He still has a ways
to go in the ring, but he has uh he's
so young and he's so charismatic that there's there's money
in that guy. And so I think Desmond can handle
the wrestling end of things, and together they're both good
talkers and they can come up with some fun material.

Speaker 4 (01:09:30):
And I just like that in TNA, when somebody's inn
take team, you don't automatically think, oh, they're getting buried,
you know, like you know Coslob and Santino or the
Jabb Report, the Jabber Wing of Nexus. You know, that's
what ww's Taking division is. And I'm glad that in
TNA we can say, oh, Desmond Wolf and Brutus Magnets, Hey,
I look forward to their matches against the machine guns
or against beer moneyor against thinking or against the generation me.

(01:09:52):
It's like, I like that it doesn't feel as much
like a burial and Desmond Wolf is you know, if
his concussion issue in its health issues are worked out,
you know, and don't turn into a major issue in
the long run, and he can you know, and he
can actually move on to singles made events. TNA's got
somebody who's gonna give some people some really good matches

(01:10:12):
and surprise some people. I mean the match he had
that I saw in person shooting photo of the ringside
with Brian Danielson was just just amazing, you know, and
with the shaved head, I barely recognize him as the
same person. The total side topic. But he to me
looks so different without here than with hair, like more
than most people.

Speaker 5 (01:10:29):
Yeah, he really does. I mean, he had unique hair before.
I think the one thing that held him back in
TNA before the health issue surfaced, he developed a reputation
for just taking too much of the match and not
really working with the baby faces that he was working with.
You know, it's one thing you're in there with angle
and he's gonna do what he wants to do, whether
you like it or not. Yeah, but you know, the

(01:10:51):
feeling with Desmond was that he was kind of eating
some of the young baby faces a lot.

Speaker 4 (01:10:55):
Yep. Yeah, and that's the stuff that you know that
doesn't damage you know behind you know, you'll go wall
the guys, what's great matches? Why aren't they pushing him?
And you know that's where sometimes over time, even as
a critic it, it really is good to to have
the places you can go to ask those questions and
go is there something that you know, is there's a
reason this guy's not getting to push that because it
seems like he's got more upside and more potential and

(01:11:16):
it's nice to find that stuff out. So it's not
just yeah, it's bad politics, or they just don't like
him because of something.

Speaker 5 (01:11:22):
Stupid orstein and they don't recognize what they have, which
has been an issue.

Speaker 4 (01:11:27):
With yeah, yeah, or or it'll you know, eat up
Jarrett's leverage in the company, or you know whatever. Yes,
Eric Bischoff, I didn't listen to the interview. I mean
I've heard about it. He called up podcast and you
know just you know, kind of berated the host and
and you know, pulled the old card of I have

(01:11:48):
the numbers in front of me, and you don't, so
I must be right and you must believe me type
type argument. I don't know. I, like I said, I
didn't hear the interview, so I can't speak too much
about it. He hasn't called called called our show and
and and done the same thing.

Speaker 9 (01:12:00):
You know.

Speaker 4 (01:12:01):
I don't think the host that he called up wasn't
necessarily as prepared as he needed to be. But I
also don't think that Bishop's approach nor his arguments swayed
me much in terms of my opinions on things. I
don't know if you had a chance to listen to
the interview in question. I can't even think of the
name of the show. I apologize to that.

Speaker 5 (01:12:15):
Yeah, I haven't, and I wasn't familiar with the show either.
But in talking to just somebody today from tn A
and Wing, why in the hell would he do that?
But why waste your time with something like that? And
this person, uh was just dumbfounded, Like what is he thinking?
Why was you call into a show? It's one thing
to you know, if you're calling into you know, if

(01:12:36):
you're if you're a mainstream person, a celebrity or something,
and there's like a well known show Howard S. Turner
or something that.

Speaker 4 (01:12:43):
The rest or Larry King gets that, you.

Speaker 5 (01:12:45):
Know, something like that. But this was this is just
surprise people in TNA even and I mean it's Eric
Bischoff and controversy careers cash as he friends with the
host who God only knows. I don't know why he
did that, but uh, yeah, I guess I just haven't
given it as much attention as I probably should have.

Speaker 4 (01:13:02):
Yeah, I guess, you know, I mean, if if from
what I from what I've heard about the interchange, it
doesn't sound like a friend helping somebody out by creating controversy,
because it was, you know, it was a pretty demeaning
dressing down. It was you know, I think Eric at
Eric at his you know, Eric at the side of
Eric that those of us who at times like him
and find him engaging and and and want to, you know,

(01:13:25):
want to want to give him the benefit of doubt
certain situations, and there's times where it's just he kind
of undoes it with But you know, I can't preface
I can't preface my commentary by saying I didn't listen
to it and then give a lot of judgment on it.
So I just know that it that the people who
did listen to the show, including James Caldwell, felt that
it did not It was not flattering for Eric, and
I think that gels with what you're hearing from people

(01:13:45):
in TNA. Yeah, exactly, Yeah, yeah, And that's you know,
it's disappointing.

Speaker 3 (01:13:49):
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:13:49):
I mean, he's probably sent around and just was in
a mood. You know, Obama passed something that Bishoff didn't
want passed, and he decided to take it out on
Barton or something like that. All right, I think news
can do that to a person. Let's see, Well, let's
talk a little bit more about RAW in the respect
of promoting tonight's SmackDown Jason, did they do enough to

(01:14:14):
make tonight I you know, I'm going to remember smackdowns
on and I need to see the show, and this
is a special occasion. I'd give them like a c
It wasn't a total disaster, but I mean the fact
is that I almost forgot about it, and you know,
I don't know, what do you think?

Speaker 5 (01:14:29):
Well, I guess the problem I had with it is
that they didn't do anything for the SmackDown wrestlers. It
was tuned into SmackDown to see the Miz Randy Orton
and John Cena and yeah, Vicky and Dolph too, But
they're just complete failure and lack of attempt even to
create some synergy between these brands. It is just I'm stunned.

(01:14:52):
I can't believe that they're both you know, they're both
on universal and networks, and they can't do more to
create synergy to get people that are watching Raw to
tune to SmackDown. You know, they hyped it a few
times last night, but it just it doesn't. It should
mean more. Just as a matter of fact, Edge winning
the World Heavyweight championship that should be a talking point
on Raw. You don't have to have the Edge on

(01:15:13):
I'm in the show, but the announcer should be talking
about it like it's a major deal.

Speaker 4 (01:15:17):
Well, yeah, he was on their show last week promoting
the match. You're promoting SmackDown. The announcers are crossing over.
Now you had Dulfziger crossing over as the Icy champion.
I mean, yeah, I think you can as an announcer.

Speaker 2 (01:15:29):
Go.

Speaker 4 (01:15:29):
I mean, it doesn't make sense to me that the
brand split applies like in odd numbered minutes, but not
even numbered minutes. That's about as arbitrary as it seems.
Why if you're gonna say smackdowns on him, row Night
and DLP Zigglers and Vicky are gonna take on Sena,
why can't the announcers just throw in and we'll see
the fallout from that memorable, standout, historiccasion where Edge became

(01:15:50):
a ten time world champion in that ladder match. He's gonna,
you know, he's gonna be on camera in person talking
they don't treat Edge like a star, you know, having
Raw talk about Edge like a star helps make Edge
a star. Having Rat ignore Edge winning the title and
ignore Edge period the week after he's on the show
promoting that very match, I think it makes the title
not seem all that important. And I think they need

(01:16:11):
to really sit down and completely reevaluate how they approach
the brand differentiation and come up with something that makes
the semblance of sense.

Speaker 5 (01:16:21):
I agree, there's just no reason they can't do more
for SmackDown on Raw. I mean, I know there's writer,
creative team politics and whatnot, but Vince McMahon's the head
of the company, He's part of this, and there's I
just don't know why he refuses it. SmackDown is positioned
as that show that's on Friday night that if you
watch it great, if you don't know, a big deal,

(01:16:42):
check in for Raw next week.

Speaker 4 (01:16:43):
Yep, yep. It's a good way to put it. And
you know they want it. They want obviously wanted the
show to do well tonight, and I don't think they
I think there's so tunnel visioned on just putting out
the best raw that they can that SmackDown, even when
it's on USA Network, even live and with all the
added expensit being live, it still felt more like, you know,

(01:17:03):
I hate to say the stepchild term because it just
sounds so dated, and but it just seems like the
the you know, the I don't know, the it's just
it's an afterthought, I mean, something.

Speaker 5 (01:17:14):
To get me excited to attribute to the truth.

Speaker 6 (01:17:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:17:17):
Yeah, they didn't do that either. You know, you would
think they'd be wanting to deliver for USA Network. If
you're going to bother to.

Speaker 1 (01:17:24):
Anytime you're watching WWE Raw or SmackDown or AW Dynamite
in particular, send us an email if you've got thoughts
on the show or a topic you want us to address,
or a question for us Wade Keller Podcast at pwtorch
dot com. Wadkeller Podcast at pewtorch dot com. If there's
anything else going on in pro wrestling that you want
us to address on our main podcast during our mailbank segments,

(01:17:46):
that same email applies Wade Keller Podcast at PW torch
dot com. We invite that interaction. Let us know what
you think of what we're saying, and let us know
what you want us to talk about and ask us
specific questions. Wade Keller Podcast at PW towards dot com.

Speaker 4 (01:18:02):
I did like though, that Raw's overrun. It was only
three minutes. I mean, we've had three out of five
weeks leading into this Raw was over three hours, and
this week we have a three hour pay per view.

Speaker 6 (01:18:13):
Look at it.

Speaker 4 (01:18:13):
We have two hour SmackDown. Oh keep going backwards. We
got a one hour Superstars, a two hour SmackDown, a
one hour Tribute to the Troops, a three hour pay
per view, a two hour plus Raw, a two hour
and maybe plus SmackDown, and then two more hours a
tribute to the Troops. That's a stretch straight across the
board of six straight days of programming, only one of
which is a pay per view. I mean there's burnout

(01:18:34):
as there's a very potential, very big potential for burnout
for me. Also, I may not even be able to
speak by the time tomorrow Tomorrow night is over with
with yes, if you watch online, I mean it's every.

Speaker 5 (01:18:48):
Day then, yeah, it's on tonight that they bumped it
beat right now, So it'll lead from SmackDown into that.
It will see maybe they'll do a better job of
hyping that, you know, especially when they have that lead in.
That kind of makes me think we won't see an
overrun unless they're oh, you're right again, you know, because
they are saying it's a live edition of NXT. They've
they've been kind of fib with that once in a while.

Speaker 4 (01:19:08):
But well, there could be a simulcast, like they could
do an overrun, but it just it starts online, you know,
kind of like TNA does with Reaction.

Speaker 5 (01:19:16):
Yeah, I'm just kind of curious to see how they
handle that because they usually try to make NXT look
a little bit different than SmackDown. So are they gonna
cut to some videos to start the show or how
how that's gonna work. Oh, just little things. It's kind
of fun to keep an eye.

Speaker 4 (01:19:28):
On yep, yep, I agree. I'm looking at the RAW
lineup and trying to see if there's anything else I
mean it was. It wasn't a show that had a
lot of density to it. There wasn't a ton that
they threw at at us content wise. But as a
as they follow up the TLC, do they do a
decent job stressing what they needed to from the Raw
brand standpoint?

Speaker 5 (01:19:48):
No, no, they didn't. I was gonna let down in
terms of what they just you know, they didn't make
TLC feel nearly as good or as important as it
played out, and that turned out to be one of
their better shows of the year. And I guess the
problem is they get so can up in hyping every
show is the greatest show of the year that maybe
it just doesn't ring true even when it. You know,

(01:20:10):
they think that they don't need to go the extra
mile because the show speaks for itself and they can
do so much more with that that they should make
you as if you're a viewer who didn't order a
pay per view when Raw is over, you should regret
not ordering that show, no matter whether it was good
or bad, But especially in cases like this where they

(01:20:31):
did come through with what I thought was a pretty
entertaining show on Sunday night.

Speaker 4 (01:20:36):
And in that spirit, I just have to say, people
who did not listen to the post TLC pay per
View roundtable, you should regret it. Good stuff from us exactly, yes, no, no,
totally agree with you. The regret factor is one of
the biggest selling points for the next pay per view.
I think TNA does a poor job building that up,

(01:20:56):
you know, or doing the follow up. I think there's
a sense Okay, if you ordered it right, thanks, now
we're moving on, and there's not that that that reinforcement
of purchase, you know, and and those of you who
are at Christmas shopping when you go to a good
store where you get that kind of one on one
service at the mall, you know, at either a specialty
store or the department store. I'm not talking about being
in line at Walmart, but where you know they they
walk around the counter and hand you your bank clothes

(01:21:18):
or your your new toaster rubon that you bought or whatever.
They're just like and you kind of feel patronized. But
they'll be like, oh, this is a good toaster. I
love this brand, or I love this feature, like they're
trained to reinforce something or this sweater looks good on you,
like they're they're told to do that. Well, you've already
given them their credit card, your credit card, you've already paid,

(01:21:38):
they've handed to the receipt, it's in the bag, and
they're handing it to you. But good businesses know that
you're more likely to come back sooner and buy more
if you walked out with a good feeling that you
made a good purchase and don't regret it while you're
walking away. And and I don't think I mean, I
think progressing promoters need to go to retail school for
just basic, basic lessons like that, because I think Ross

(01:22:01):
should have had involved in it a tremendous video package
that said, if you didn't see TLC, here is just
a sampling of what you missed, and have a good
contemporary state of the art production, not trying to forward
a storyline. I'm not talking about oh scene of this
and the dramatic music and all I mean make it's
about TLC the pay per view, those who ordered it.

(01:22:22):
And I would like, I mean, if I'm t and
A or WWE, I incorporated into that fans leaving the
building and they're walking out of the building and they
are hooping and hollering and oh my god, that was
the best show ever. Well, I mean, you don't necessarily
want to go that far for every single pay per view,
because then it you might get numb to it. But
some version of that and occasionally including the fan at
the fan interviews right afterwards as they're leaving the building

(01:22:43):
make it seem like a big deal, not just at
wrestle any the time pay per views are struggling, they
need to do some extra things that they kind of
got used to not doing over the years.

Speaker 5 (01:22:51):
Yeah, and they did that with the Wrestlemandia on sale.
I thought they did such a good job interviewing people
that were there at the location that apparently didn't realize
they could just order them online. But you know, I mean,
they're all excited. It made WrestleMania feel special. It doesn't
take that much work. But they're just in such a
routine with things that they don't stray from it. It's

(01:23:11):
really strange, all.

Speaker 4 (01:23:14):
Right, Jason, Well, we got a long night in front
of us, and I'm going to grab dinner and try
to get the this week's newsletter put online. And then
get ready for SmackDown. So instead of going another a
full thirty minutes, I think I'll end it there and
try to grab dinner before settling in for yet another
night of live wrestling, which is kind of cool. We
haven't had a Tuesday night live live wrestling experience since,

(01:23:35):
you know, since the XT tear you see You're live,
and this feels kind of like a bigger deal because
it's kind of special and a two hour show and
a SmackDown brand, So I know, I'm looking forward to it,
even though it's gonna feel strange, But I you know
what I'm going to like at the most when it's over. No,
well no, I mean that's the easy answer, but no, no,
because I might be sad one's over. It's a good show.
I'm going to really be happy Friday night. Oh yeah, yeah,

(01:23:57):
I mean to not think I got to wake up,
you know, worry about it Friday night, or think about
it Saturday or Sunday. Oh I've got smacked down. But
it's a holiday and I gotta go watch you know,
I gotta go watch it. You know, it's just like
in the middle of the holiday, you don't want that
stuff getting on you. So for the sake of our job,
it's kind of nice to be able to get SmackDown
watch now when it feels relevant and it's not getting
in the way of all the holiday stuff.

Speaker 5 (01:24:16):
If I had my way, t and A Impact would
be on after NXT tonight and would get it all
done in one shot.

Speaker 4 (01:24:21):
And then have a nice, you know, four day weekend
of or you know, three days in between instead of Yeah,
because Wednesday night's like my only night off some weeks.

Speaker 5 (01:24:28):
Yeah, yeah, exactly, an unfortunate home and what tribute even
though Tribute to the Troops is going, I just figure that's,
you know, kind of one that isn't really the storyline
relevant more often than not. So I'm going to be
spending my Wednesday night Christmas shopping. I've got a little
bit more to go.

Speaker 4 (01:24:43):
Oh I do too, I do too. Well. Somebody from
TNA emailed me and says, I think you'll like Thursday show.
There's an inn ring that had the entire crew and
talent speechless, so look forward to on Thursday.

Speaker 5 (01:24:58):
Well that's something to look for it. I just hope
it doesn't involved like Eric Young and Orlando Jordan and
it's speechless for the wrong reason. But you know one
thing before we repisode, Yeah, absolutely, And I really liked
the way they opened raw last night. It kind of
had a little more of an old school pre Internet
feel where they don't just they didn't just assume everyone
already knew the results of the show. He had justin

(01:25:19):
Roberts opening it up and talking about the World Championship
match and then you know, teasing a little bit and
then and still World Champion in the mid That was
a nice little touch. It could kind of throw back moment.

Speaker 4 (01:25:31):
Yeah, no, that that's true. I like that too, and
I still I think it's the side top it. But
I love how they continue to save money on Pyro
by finding creative ways to not do the Pirate At
the start of the show.

Speaker 5 (01:25:42):
Yeah, you know what they had it at TLC. I was,
I was surprised to see it there.

Speaker 4 (01:25:46):
Yeah. Well, I mean, if you're gonna do it, you
should do it for monthly pay per views, and you know,
maybe on occasion for us. I still have of them
of the belief and I know they're they're way too
honest the company to do this, but I just think
they should go back in the archives and find you know,
one of the old Pyro shows, and just I mean,
who's gonna know you focus on the stage, the pyro
Blast is pre taped, and then you cut to the
announcers and nobody knows it was pre taped.

Speaker 5 (01:26:07):
Yeah, TNA's done that. You know what though, if I'm
T and A, I just don't do Pyro at all
because you can't do it as well as WWE does.
And you know, I don't think anyone's sitting there ascre
of knowing who man that TNA piro display. I'm happy
I ordered this show and it just don't do it all.
Come up with something different.

Speaker 4 (01:26:24):
I feel that way about TNA production values in general.
You know, they can't you can't compete. Like Nitel competed
with Raw, they won up them and Raw had to
meet them, you know, match them. But T and A
it just it kind of looks like, you know, nice try,
but you came up short of the rim. And you
know it does I think you go for a completely
different look that the USC show. Back in two thousand
and one, Dana White watched that watch the Pyro Sparklers

(01:26:46):
and the Tito letters spelled out for the Tito Orte's
main event. And they had the entrance stage and he
looked at that and afterwards he's like, we're not doing
that again. Ww is way better than us. We got
to just do something totally different.

Speaker 5 (01:26:57):
And the funny thing is, I thought it was better
than I've seen anything from WWE that they did this
Tito entrance. It was it was the Tito fight before
we went to Vegas to see that show where I
seriously thought like there were people on fire in the building.
They had such a passive Piro display it was amazing.
But yeah, I mean, I'd like that they just decided

(01:27:19):
to do it their way, you know, stand out, be different.
But I will say, in TNA's defense, they had a
they had a much more impressive pyro display than the
Vikings did last night. They had their dome pyroe. It
would have been nice if they would have stocked up
a little bit for the outdoor occasion.

Speaker 4 (01:27:35):
But fiftieth anniversary, Yeah, you know, it was nice.

Speaker 5 (01:27:40):
If you're a dome, you're like, yeah, I understand they
can't go all out, but when you're outdoors, you know,
come on, say you spend a few bucks and get
a real pirate display going if you go or just
don't do it at all.

Speaker 4 (01:27:48):
I've like seven more questions for you on the Viking game.

Speaker 5 (01:27:51):
But I gotta you like how I always manage it,
just tie it back into the Viking somehow.

Speaker 4 (01:27:56):
Yeah. Well, I haven't even watched the end of the
game yet. I last night I wound down with with
the Timbers game, which wasn't any better. But but Kevin
loves just a monster right now, so it's kind of
fun to watch that team develop. So but yeah, it
was too depressing watching the Bikes just go into the
same funk that they were in before Brett Farv arrived,
where I'm just like kind of ampathetic at the end
of the season, and the outdoor scene was fun at

(01:28:18):
the beginning.

Speaker 2 (01:28:19):
But yeah, you know, yeah, I.

Speaker 5 (01:28:20):
Think Vikings fans will be among the only fans that
next year when there's a lock out, we're not going. Man,
I really miss football.

Speaker 4 (01:28:25):
I mean yeah, well, hopefully it gives us a year
to build a stadium.

Speaker 5 (01:28:29):
That'd be nice. Yes, as far as I'm concerned. Just
tear the dome down now it's you know, it's it's
already partially there. I move the Vikings to TCF for
a year or two whatever. It takes and just get
this new stadium built, but we got a lot of
political hurdles to get over first. I'm sure.

Speaker 4 (01:28:45):
Well, okay, this is one of the questions that I
wanted to ask, and that is from your experience at TCF.
Is that an NFL ready stadium as a stop gap
for a year or two?

Speaker 5 (01:28:55):
Yes, yeah, I mean it's they're they're gonna have seating issues.
I mean, the Dome holds sixty some thousand and TCF
holds forty some thousand.

Speaker 4 (01:29:03):
But I mean, can it be configured for more?

Speaker 3 (01:29:05):
Though?

Speaker 5 (01:29:07):
You know they said they were talking about bringing in
temporary seating and things like that. You know, the obvious
issue is that you're going to need to have a
heating system put underneath the field, right, yeah, which I
for the life I mean, okay, well, we only play
until November, so we didn't think we needed we get
snow in November. And I really think all that was
was when we know the Vikings will probably be moving

(01:29:28):
here in a couple of years, so let's save a
few bucks and we'll.

Speaker 4 (01:29:30):
Wait for them. They didn't pay for it, I mean.

Speaker 5 (01:29:33):
Because it does snow here in November.

Speaker 4 (01:29:36):
That was although I do think the ground has more
time to freeze. I mean I literally went out by
grinding in shorts in here, and so, you know, we
had some warm days and we are six eight weeks
or you know, six seven weeks more into being really cold,
and I think over time the ground probably does get harder.
So I think if College generally played later in December,

(01:29:57):
I bet they would have done it. I think weatherwise,
it probably was a more player friendly field in November.

Speaker 5 (01:30:03):
Oh sure, yeah, I mean I get that, but you're
right me.

Speaker 4 (01:30:06):
You might be right on the little strategy there though.

Speaker 5 (01:30:08):
Yeah. I kind of like when they didn't put air
conditioning in the metronomer and off the bat, it was
like you didn't know that it might get hot in
the summer. And while it's a Viking stadium, while they
do play preseason games in August and it's been known
to be a little warm there then too, and you
had the twins moving in. I could complain about this
all day.

Speaker 4 (01:30:24):
But yeah, all right, cool, Well, Jason, thanks, pleasure was
always I will wish you and all you remembers the
merry Christmas.

Speaker 5 (01:30:35):
Yeah, absolutely, Merry Christmas to you and and everybody listening
out there. And I guess next year. Next week we'll
be talking about New Year's.

Speaker 4 (01:30:43):
Yes, and maybe talking about some of your end your
inn awards and that type of thing.

Speaker 5 (01:30:48):
Just didn't even get me thinking about that yet.

Speaker 4 (01:30:49):
I know, I know, I got a stack of ballots
for you. Oh no, all right, thanks everybody, until next time.
WAD tell her and be happy. Jason signing off.

Speaker 20 (01:31:05):
Are you a fan of AW looking to sit back,
relax and listen to some like minded podcasters who share
your passion?

Speaker 18 (01:31:12):
Do you want to be topped off the ledge after
a segment that has you wondering what the heck are
they thinking?

Speaker 20 (01:31:17):
Do you want to join a discussion on what AW
is doing right and what they could do to improve?
Then join me Joel and.

Speaker 7 (01:31:24):
Me Greg for the All Elee Conversation Club every Friday
on the pw torch Live Cast. Fee search pw Torch
in your podcast app and subscribe to pw Torchdaily Cast
or stream our shows directly from pw torch dot com.
Find full details on the PW Torchdailycast lineup at pwtorchdailycast
dot com.

Speaker 2 (01:32:06):
You're listening to the pw torch Live Cast. This is
PW torch Assistant editors. James Caldwell hosting Today for Wednesday,
December twenty second, twenty ten. Today's a Wednesday, so that
can mean only one thing. Pat McNeil, how are you today?

Speaker 6 (01:32:21):
I am doing fine, James, Hello you people.

Speaker 2 (01:32:24):
Ah, there we go.

Speaker 21 (01:32:25):
It's a traditional Wednesday.

Speaker 2 (01:32:27):
Here on the live cast, to be joined by Torch Calm.
It's Pat McNeil.

Speaker 3 (01:32:31):
Pat.

Speaker 2 (01:32:32):
A very busy stretch of TV this week. I counted
up before I went on the air, twenty hours of
TV and pay per view combined Thursday. Okay for stars impact? Yeah,
I mean, Pat, what's kind of in the standout? Either
few either on pay per view from w B or

(01:32:54):
Ring of Honor from TV from w B Ringham Honor
or TNA. But what's your big story of the week.

Speaker 6 (01:33:00):
Well, there's there's a couple. First of all, you know,
obviously Ring of Honor had a very successful show. I
didn't watch it live. I'm probably going to wait until
the DVD comes out, which is what I you know,
just what I've been doing based on what I've heard
from Sean and others about the the high quality of
the uh of the internet. Pay for view they did well.

(01:33:22):
W W Lee did a show that you know it
wasn't a bad show, but nobody I don't. I don't
think anybody watched it. I mean I I think it's
gonna turn in a low buy rate. I think they did,
you know not. I mean Wave already went through in
detail how they failed to set up the event properly.
And the TLC pay per view is just a bad idea.
I mean that's the I mean, you know, what's the

(01:33:43):
next We're gonna have a pay per view of all
scaffold matches? Is that the next great idea? Yeah? Me too,
I mean, yes, maybe a pay for view of all
Lumberjack matches. I think. I think the other thing you
know that that may or may not be good is
I I know they're gauging the reaction to UH again
and the ratings for what happened last night when they

(01:34:05):
put SmackDown on Live on Tuesday. I wouldn't be surprised
if it does better there than it than it doesn't.
It's Friday night spot on on sci Fi, which is,
you know, a lesser networking, and you know, people don't
people don't usually watch wrestling on Friday or Saturday nights.
I mean that's you know, that that would surprise people
because that would be you know, that's traditionally been a

(01:34:25):
spot for you know, for either doing live shows or
or you know, I mean there was wrestling for many
years on on TVs on Saturday night. That's six oh five.
But you know that's the death spot. I mean you
look at the uh look at a tribute for the
Troops that was on NBC and it drew about the
you know, it's it's an hour that was heavily promoted,

(01:34:46):
did about the same as your average episode of w
B Superstars.

Speaker 8 (01:34:49):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 6 (01:34:50):
It was just it was in the death spot. It
was in the death slot.

Speaker 2 (01:34:54):
Yeah. Yeah. My only concern was the SmackDown range last night.
You know, it's not a destination weekly show, it and
I guess E sense that so much of I guess
so many of these viewers.

Speaker 21 (01:35:07):
Are just habitual at this point.

Speaker 2 (01:35:08):
You know, they watch on Monday, they you know, watch
frequently sometimes on Fridays. Yeah, no one wants to you know,
it's mainly Monday.

Speaker 6 (01:35:18):
So I'm very curious. I'm very curious about how this
does because you know, I mean, again it's it's on
a different night but on the same time. At the
same token they promoted. They pushed it very heavily on
Raw and they said the magic word. They said, Johnson
is going to wrestle on SmackDown, you know, live on
Tuesday night and Live Tomorrow night, and Randy Orton's gonna
wrestle live on smack on Tomorrow night, and the miss

(01:35:40):
is going to be there to like you know, I mean,
so you would think there'd be a you know there,
you think there'd be some interest from your average Raw
the ord.

Speaker 2 (01:35:47):
Yeah, I agree with you on that. Yeah, And I
don't know, they've created great synergy between the two brands.
And I know Waye and Jason talked about this guest
yesterday on the live cast. But like you said that
y're all on Monday, they said, John Tina, Miss Rainy
or find them on SmackDown tomorrow night, that that that

(01:36:08):
is the magic word with John Cena. So I think
that that might work in their favorite with last night's rating.

Speaker 6 (01:36:13):
Yeah, and the word is out that we're going to
get a lot more crossing over than usual and in
the months leading up to WrestleMania, I mean, you can
you can expect to see you know, Sena and Orton
on SmackDown a good bit and then I don't know
if there's anybody from SmackDown that Rawney very Mysterio will
be on Raw a couple of times, and I'm sure
Edge will and you know that sort of thing.

Speaker 2 (01:36:34):
Is that a sign of them in the brand foot
or we need star power on SmackDown?

Speaker 6 (01:36:39):
They I don't think it's a sign of them ending
the brands, but I think that they're I know, they're
disappointed in the SmackDown ratings and they want to try
and build that up a little bit. And suddenly they were,
you know, they don't like where the Raw ratings are,
even though Monday night show did pretty well.

Speaker 2 (01:36:55):
Yep. The other big item I think this week is
I guess it could be it could turn out to
be a guy, don't is John yet? What do you
make of the first two days of them starting a program.
Is it something that's gonna lead to wrestle media or
you know, this is just a short term program and

(01:37:15):
to reintroduce Plunk on a TV.

Speaker 6 (01:37:18):
Well, I mean part of it is about reintroducing punk.
And he will be uh, he'll be back. He'll be
He's cleared to wrestle. He can, he can wrestle on
rod this becoming Monday Night, if that's what they want
to do. I mean, I don't know how long the
fute's gonna go, because realistically, they start it now. They
don't have to have a singles match at the Royal
Rumble because they're both being the Rumble. They don't have

(01:37:40):
to have a singles match with the elimination Chamber because
odds are both of them might be in the elimination chamber.
They don't have to have the first singles match between
these two and sold WrestleMania, if that's what they want
to do.

Speaker 2 (01:37:51):
Uh.

Speaker 6 (01:37:51):
Most people think that they're gonna, you know, think that
they're heading for the News versus John Cena, But maybe not.
Maybe they maybe they have some idea for somebody who
can step up and challenge the mis between now and then.

Speaker 2 (01:38:04):
John Morrison. Uh, do you think that match is going
to happen for the Rumble or even if it's going
to happen on raw? You know, between Morrison and miss
Is that happen on a raw you know, kind of
right before the Royal Rumble?

Speaker 6 (01:38:16):
Well, you never know what Vincent Man is gonna do.
He can change things around. It should happen at the
Rumble because because obviously, because of the Rumble match being
the main event, you can you can maybe have your
champion defend against somebody who's not exactly a top level guy.

Speaker 3 (01:38:30):
Uh.

Speaker 6 (01:38:31):
The best example that would be several years ago when
Brack Lesnar defended the w w A title against hardcore
hardcore Holly at the Royal Rumble.

Speaker 2 (01:38:40):
That's always a good example. Yes, there was actually some
some juice behind hardcore.

Speaker 6 (01:38:47):
Oh yeah, I mean there was, you know, I mean,
I think there was more interest in the locker room
as to how that match would turn out than you know,
than obviously among the fans, because of uh, because of
Holly trying to you know, Holly trying to up rock
Lesner on their first match together, and Lesner reacting by,
you know, by dropping the guy and breaking his neck. So,
M yeah, I guess there was you know, I think

(01:39:09):
they were convinced that even in the rematch, nothing was
gonna happen to Lesler.

Speaker 2 (01:39:14):
Yeah. I think they took a safe bet on that one.

Speaker 6 (01:39:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 21 (01:39:18):
Let's want to give us.

Speaker 2 (01:39:18):
The phone number for to join us here live on
the live cast. If you're listening to us on blog
talk radio the number is six four six, seven two
one nine eight eight, and we already have two people
and holds. If you want to be third in line.

Speaker 21 (01:39:32):
You'd give us a call and we'll take your phone
call here in the.

Speaker 2 (01:39:35):
Next fifty minutes of these live cast. Uh that will
also be hearing from you with Elive e Vincenter later
on the show. So we always supported that on Wednesdays.

Speaker 6 (01:39:45):
Yeah, it's not it's not what it used to be.

Speaker 2 (01:39:49):
We don't have a whole lot of shows coming up
other than other than these tour, uh, the annual Christmas
the New Year's Tour kind of light. But uh, well
you're well you're from Padle. What's coming up, especially on
TNN tomorrow night, right, and let's go to go to
our first phone call to say from the seven to
four area code seven two four, welcome to the show.
Please stake your name where you're from.

Speaker 9 (01:40:11):
Hey, James K. Patt, Dave and Pittsburgh.

Speaker 21 (01:40:14):
Hey, I'm not too bad.

Speaker 9 (01:40:18):
I wanted to talk a little bit about Sena and
CM punk. First thing I wanted to say was I
don't know if I'm in the minority or not. But
I was like, I was like absolutely appalled. Monday night
was seen as from in the interchange with Vicky Guerrero
and became I don't I don't know if appauled is.

Speaker 2 (01:40:38):
The correct word, but it was just it was.

Speaker 9 (01:40:40):
Typical scenam and the Scena that I can't stand and uh,
it's just forced down our throats. And I mean the
best part about it was when CM Punk came out
and hit him with a chair and I think that, uh,
they could have a great few because CM Punk is like,
uh anti everything that you know stands for. But what

(01:41:03):
I worry about is not so much being rushed or anything.
It's just at the end, you know, Scena is just
going to squash them and that's gonna be it.

Speaker 6 (01:41:16):
Well yeah, well, I mean you get Dave's right about that,
because you know Punk is not going to uh is
not going to end up winning the feud against Sena.
It could be, it could be fun for a little while.
You have to remember that John Cena's real target audience
is between the ages of ten and twelve years old,
and you know, we we don't get into that. I mean,

(01:41:37):
I think John Cena is, you know, is a very
talented wrestler. He could cut you know, he could cut
good promos if they gave him better material the promo
Monday night. I know, h Wade and Jason spent a
lot of time, you know, yesterday talking about that. I
just think it at the in the end, it reflects
that it just ends up reflecting badly on WWE. I mean,

(01:41:58):
here you have a woman, Vicky Guerrero, who's forty two
years old and has two kids, and you know, shockingly, shockingly,
she's not the target of a lot of attention from
the uh, from the male wrestlers who are in their twenties.
That's fine, but you don't have to pretend, you know,
she's the you don't have to pretend she's the ugliest
woman alive. You know, I think it's a little bit ridiculous.

(01:42:19):
You know, she's not fat. They keep calling her fat,
you know, I mean just because you know, just because
they like stripp you know, people girls will look like strippers.
You know, most people don't. Most of their fans, you know,
don't really think the same way they do. And uh,
and I think it ends up hurting them and and

(01:42:39):
and will continue to end up hurting them. You know,
it's and they want to target women, and you know
they're not gonna get the female audience that they want
with you know, if they keep doing that, and you know.

Speaker 2 (01:42:54):
The concerned day that you expressed, which is that Okay,
Damn Funk gets a program with Sina to conquers him
and and you know this this Punk benefit, I mean,
it's just to me, it's it's almost the same thing
with Dolls Niggler, which is well, it.

Speaker 21 (01:43:09):
Depends on how they book it.

Speaker 2 (01:43:10):
But the thing was, you know, Dollas Pickler had two
good matches as John Cena. I think his profile is
elevated these two weeks. Now is that what is that?
What's gonna happen with I don't know, you know, yeah,
totally destroyed Punk and WrestleMania. That's I don't think it's
gonna happen.

Speaker 21 (01:43:26):
But will will Punk benefit?

Speaker 2 (01:43:28):
I don't know.

Speaker 6 (01:43:29):
Well, yeah, yeah, CM Punk is gonna be casting some
nice checks if he's feuding with John Cena, because John
Cena is the main guy, and you know, and and
if they and if they book him so he doesn't
look like a total chump, which you know, which even
if they tried, I think I think Punk can sort
of panel himself and and get his heat back then
this is this is good to see him punk. You know,

(01:43:50):
in most most every most, every heel in that company
wants to have a have a feud with John Cena.

Speaker 2 (01:43:56):
Yeah, I mean you're right Pack from that respect, which
is that you're guaranteeing me event Wade Barrett and John
Tina barred guy, what four main events of.

Speaker 6 (01:44:05):
That feud something like that. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:44:08):
Yeah, that's a pretty nice little start to your career.
Speaking of that, I mean, Dave, I'll get back to
your fall up in a second, but I wanted to
get to, uh, sort of a side category the future
of Nexus. Where where's this group going? Are they going
to smack down? What do you think they do with
the reset of the Nexus group after the feud with Sina?

Speaker 6 (01:44:28):
Well, they they need a new target, and I don't
think it's going to be you know, I think having
them focus on battling Santino and Vladimir Kaslof that's that's
not going to do it. There be you know, there's
a there are a few actions for what to do
with them, or they could just start breaking them up
and having you know and having the tongue of version
of Nexus, which actually having a tongue in charge of

(01:44:50):
anything would be horrible. But you know, having two sides
on Nexus feuding with each other, especially when there are characters,
you know, hanging around in that company like Darren Young
and U and uh, let's Michael Tarboro and I'm sure, uh, well,
who's the other guy? Skip Sheffield will be back eventually,
they could. You know, there are a lot of possibilities
with Nexus. I can't guarantee they're going to pick the

(01:45:11):
best one, but you know there's there's some opportunity there. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:45:16):
Uh, gay back, did you have another fault? Another questions?

Speaker 9 (01:45:20):
Well, I guess I wanted to maybe say a little
bit more about Tina. I don't know, uh, like when
Hogan was in his prime, uh, with his big face
running the WWF. I mean I was little, you know,
like five years old or so.

Speaker 2 (01:45:35):
And and you know that was cool back then.

Speaker 9 (01:45:38):
But like even Hogan was was you know cool.

Speaker 2 (01:45:41):
He was like larger than.

Speaker 6 (01:45:42):
Like Tina is so and cheesy.

Speaker 9 (01:45:46):
And I mean, I just it's just so annoying whenever
he's on TV, and you know, it's not somebody you
can get behind, because when he tried to be serious,
it doesn't even seem realistic. Mm.

Speaker 6 (01:45:58):
Hmm, well, I mean you're here's the thing. You know,
who is writing, who's writing roth raw is you know,
everything is signed off on by vincick Man, who is
sixty five, a grandfather, you know, who is just just
out of his mind crazy in certain respects and you know,
really not a good touchstone for what's cool out there.

(01:46:18):
And it goes to something that you know, I was
talking about with people this weekend. Pretty much everybody in
a major position in creative has been there for a
decade or more. You know that there's no way that
would have happened in one of the old territories. They
have to switch up, they have to switch up who's
writing these shows, and Vince McMahon has to give up
some control over over what's happening in order to bring

(01:46:39):
somebody in who can you know, maybe create characters that
relate to the audiences here in twenty eleven.

Speaker 3 (01:46:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:46:47):
I mean the other part of it too, is that
they're writing for a younger demographics. And I mean, Dave,
it sounds like, you know, obviously you don't fit the
demographic of the younger.

Speaker 21 (01:46:57):
You know, teenagers and young kids.

Speaker 2 (01:47:00):
I mean, that's that's that's who they write that character
for I mean, how do they talent that of Johnston
being their top star appealing to that smaller kids, uh
sort of teenager demographic, will also not completely turning away
their older demographics.

Speaker 6 (01:47:18):
They have to they have to work on him some
more and maybe, you know, maybe give John Cena a
little more of a voice in his own character, because
I suspect he probably has more going on in his
life than than w W makes him out to be.
I mean, even you know, even from that commercial for
the for the scene of DVD set, you can see
that you know, he's a He's a more interesting character

(01:47:38):
than somebody who bounces you should be bouncing around there
like a purple you know, like a purple shirt wearing Barney.

Speaker 2 (01:47:46):
That's great visual pat but very appropriate on a number
of different levels of them. Uh day, back to your
final thoughts or another questions.

Speaker 9 (01:47:55):
Well, the only thing I guess, no more questions. But
the only thing I wanted to say is, like I
think a two guys who were somewhat corning in the past,
I don't know, ten to fifteen years on WWE TV,
and that's Kurt Angle and uh Nick Foley, but they
both had attributes that you know, even if they were corning,

(01:48:16):
Like Kurt Angle was just like so intense and you
could get into every match you had because he just
his matches were so intense. And then Foley, like you know,
he gave it. You know, he always gave it at all,
with blood, sweat and tears all the time with him.
And you know he could make funny jokes with the
rocks and stuff and get cheap pops all pops all
the time. But you know those guys were could be corny,

(01:48:40):
yet you had something to work with with seeing him.
I mean, you know, kids and girls like him and
and he's really cheesy and it's so annoying, and uh,
I just I don't know. I hope hope it ain't soon,
but I'm.

Speaker 6 (01:48:57):
Yeah, I understand, I understand what you're Go watch some
Ring of Honor, Go watch Dragon get USA, Go order
some pro wrestling gorilla stuff or some shimmer because you
know you're you're probably gonna end up getting war out
of that stuff than you are by watching WWE. And
that's that's not a criticism. Ww makes a lot of money.
They'll be selling a lot of John Cena merchandise and

(01:49:19):
they'll be doing fine.

Speaker 1 (01:49:27):
You don't have to wait for the way Keller Pro
Wrestling post show to find out what I thought of
Monday Night Raw and SmackDown. Each week, you can check
out my reports that are updated live throughout Raw and
SmackDown at pwtorch dot com. My written report will tell
you what's happening in detail in case you missed the show,
and it will also analyze key segments and give my
random thoughts quips on what I am watching as it airs.

(01:49:49):
So check it out every Monday night and Tuesday night
at pewtorch dot com. That also applies to WWE pay
per views. I cover those live at pw torch dot
com with a detailed written rep sport with star ratings,
and of course you can find other TV reports from
other contributors to pw torch such as nxt ROA, to
Impact Wrestling and more. Check it out pw torch dot

(01:50:10):
com your first stop for TV and pay per view
written reports.

Speaker 2 (01:50:23):
Yeah, and I mean this has been an issue for
Sina's character and how W presents him for five years,
and you know we're gonna enter our sixth year of
what do you do with Sina? How do you make
him appeal to two very separate demographics with two separate pertases.
At times they've been okay. At times they have been bad,

(01:50:44):
like being a dancing unraw that's that's bad. So it's
just little things like this that they have to find
a way to make him appeal to the kids, because
that's who's you know, snapping up the merchandise and watching
the TV and encouraging families to.

Speaker 21 (01:50:59):
Take them to the arena.

Speaker 2 (01:51:01):
You know, the parents will also not turn away that
older democratic and who's supposed to order the pay per views.

Speaker 6 (01:51:07):
And they're not well and you know, and there's another thing.
James w. W is final with this arrangement. As long
as the young males or the adult males are so
angry with John Cena that they're willing to show up
at the building that you're Seum punk or or Randy
Orton or Wade Baard or whoever's fighting Scena that week,
I don't know how long that's gonna happen.

Speaker 2 (01:51:27):
Though, Yeah, I'm trying to think, you know, this whole
Next Week program, I don't know that they're you know,
it's sort of like the past. You know, there's that
Chris Jericho character who was the anti Sena. There was
a Randy Yorts character who was the anti Sena and
kind of gave that male audience someone a rally rally
behind against Sina. And I don't know that Nexus really

(01:51:50):
fulfilled that role, but perhaps so if you said that,
maybe maybe Punk will be that guy, and that's how
they'll try to draw in that younger I'm sure he's
the older al demographic to be against Sina and and
that might be one of the reasons why they're doing
this program.

Speaker 6 (01:52:06):
Yeah, well, I think they're doing this program with Sina
versus Punk because they probably because they figure, Hey, this
is gonna be fun and m Yeah, I certainly expect
something fun out of it.

Speaker 2 (01:52:17):
Well, let's hope so, especially if it goes to WrestleMania,
that's you know, three three four months of TVs look
forward too. Otherwise, who knows what we're gonna get with Sina. So, Dave,
good to hear from you, and thanks for calling in,
but look fort to hear from you again. Let's go
to our next phone call from the eight six five
area code. Eight six five. Welcome to the show. Please

(01:52:39):
say your name where you're from.

Speaker 22 (01:52:41):
Hey, it's going on Gays to Stephen from Tennessee.

Speaker 6 (01:52:45):
H nothing much, man, I just had a quick question
about Renan Vonner.

Speaker 22 (01:52:51):
I got the pay per view and with the title
mass besteen, DNS Strong and David Richards obvious say, you know,
it's trying to sell the along with Richard having a
concussion and all that. Right now, that's the storyline storyline
that he has a great new concussion and everything. And
I just curiated with, uh, with your view of what

(01:53:16):
you view With the more and more we can find
out about concussions and everything and how the damage in
they are with the brain, what do you y'all views
of concussions being using storyline line?

Speaker 6 (01:53:27):
You know, I'm not one hundred percent sure of a storyline.
I mean there's you know, I mean there are a
couple of spots apparently where it looked like, you know,
Richard's Richards legitimately got his bell wrung. I think, you know,
if somebody has a story has a concussion and they
hold him out of shows, which is by the way,
what P and A did with with Ken Anderson some

(01:53:48):
weeks back, and yeah, then it's definitely then it definitely
could be used as part of the storyline, and it
also gets a cross. Hey, concussions are dangerous, and professional
wrestling is dangerous because people get hurt. And now I'm
not advocating that you put yourself in positions where your
wrestlers are are are almost certain to get concussions, but

(01:54:08):
you know it happens. I mean, rufflers get injured even
doing normal stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:54:13):
My only concern with the way Ring up understanding this
aspect of it is that they went ahead and quote unquote,
you know, declared inners fit for the next set of shows.
And to me, that's not.

Speaker 10 (01:54:26):
How you treat a concussion.

Speaker 2 (01:54:27):
You've got to get I mean, if it we're treating
this as a shoot, then you've got to wait a
couple of weeks before you say, okay, he's clear to
come back. If you say it's a great two concussion.
So to me, if you're going to do the concussion angle,
then do it right, you know, not just say oh,
well he's injured and and try to bridge the gap
to the next shows by saying, oh, you know, David's
gonna cut it out and he'll be at the next

(01:54:48):
two shows.

Speaker 21 (01:54:50):
I think if you're gonna do the concussion, then then
do it. As if it's legit.

Speaker 2 (01:54:54):
And have you know, have the time where you say, Okay,
we're gonna have him evaluated to speak by medical the staff,
and we'll be able to determine next week if he's
able to compete. And I'm just shut the way they
handled it this week where they came in said okay,
he's clear to go. Next he's clear to go in
January fourteen. I just hold on a second. You know,
if you're going to do this, do it right otherwise

(01:55:16):
I think it makes a bit of a fart of concussion.

Speaker 6 (01:55:20):
All right, I did. I didn't know they had done that.
That that then that makes us a storyline. So yeah, yeah, yeah,
I guess he is wrestling Chris Zero on the fifteenth,
So yeah, not crazy about not crazy about that storyline.

Speaker 2 (01:55:36):
Yeah, I mean I understand why they're doing it.

Speaker 21 (01:55:39):
I mean it's topical.

Speaker 2 (01:55:40):
And it makes it seem like, you know, I don't know,
if it's sort of like there is a news you know,
the concussions are on the news. The Ring of Minor
wants to take something, you know, rip from the headlines
and apply that to a storyline and make the storyline
seem relevant. But if you're going to do it, then
do it right. And that's kind of why I wrote

(01:56:01):
my analysis yesterday or the day before that it seems
somewhat sloppy and and like they're almost making a farce
of it, and I just don't like that. I don't
like Ic Bishoff and Rick Flair doing the Oh man,
it's just a boo boo. It's not it's concussion, and
you know, promotions are handling it.

Speaker 6 (01:56:23):
But no, I mean, I mean, that's that's a little different.
And the Bishop and Flair are obviously or obviously the
heels and they're you know, they're they're sort of constanting,
you know, Ken Anderson. That's a that's a little different.
I Yeah, I don't know about playing around with something
like this. It's it's you know, remember when when Vince
mcman blew himself up in the limousine and then you know,

(01:56:45):
and there there's a fake death, and then uh, you know,
uh a week or so later there were there were
very real deaths, and and suddenly that made the you know,
the fake death look even worse than it already was.

Speaker 4 (01:56:58):
Yep.

Speaker 21 (01:56:59):
Yeah, they're a really good point that yep.

Speaker 2 (01:57:02):
Uh she even back to you fall up on that
or another question.

Speaker 22 (01:57:07):
I guess kind of the follow up.

Speaker 4 (01:57:08):
This is the top book.

Speaker 22 (01:57:09):
I was listening to the Bruce Mitchell audio show and
he and Hay got the discussion of blood and wrestling
and all that and talked about how a risk player
wrestling you ate cut him purposely did the blading and
all that stuff, and he got h stuff in a
bit of trouble because of doing that that time period.
And I remember Roddy Piper Red Heart had a match
in that same card and Piper I got caught him
with a shot and that cut that kept Bread open

(01:57:32):
and at least so I can see, I didn't see
a chance for Brett could have bladed himself. I'm just
kind of curious of do you think there could be
a happy neat middle ground here as far as leading
in wrestling, where you know, wrestlers aren't doing the unhealthy
thing of blaming themselves or everybody. If someone gets you know,
hittes a shot the right way, he gets a little
cut above themselves as long as they're not you know,
coring blood out like a usc fight.

Speaker 11 (01:57:54):
You know, instead of.

Speaker 22 (01:57:55):
Stopping the matches, let him keep going on.

Speaker 6 (01:57:57):
Yeah, go ahead, Yeah, that's you know, it's a problem
the way w W is doing it because I mean,
you if you saw the pay per view Sunday, you know,
you know Jack Swagger, you know, hit his hit his
wrist or something, and immediately they had to tape him up,
and I guess stop whatever cut was going on. And
then in the then in the then in the championship match,

(01:58:18):
Kane gets cut open near the end of the match,
and I'm thinking, wow, this will be great. They'll stop
the match because of Kane's bleeding and then take him
back to the back, which of course did not happen.
But yeah, I mean, I I don't necessarily, I don't
have a problem with with the with the blood. Of course,
I don't have small children, you know. I mean I

(01:58:38):
think that I think that maybe kids see enough. You know,
if a kid is watching were Aw, he might be
watching some of the other shows that are on around
that time slot, and and you know he, I mean,
he might see he might see some blood, especially uh,
I mean I mean a lot of this, you know.
I mean, he'll see he might be blood on other
action shows or dramas or in the movies. I don't

(01:59:00):
think it's I don't think it's the worst thing in
the world. As long as you're not you know, as
long as you're not TNA you have the three blood
matches going on the same car during a pay per view.
I think I think you say it for for a
for special occase.

Speaker 2 (01:59:15):
Yeah, I think there is a happy medium, Steve. And
I think you know, like Pat said, so much of
their audience is getting oriented, So you don't want to
scare them away or scare away the parents to hold
the money, will hold the wallets that you know you're
trying to pry open to get into the arenas or
perhaps order a pay per view every once in a while. Uh,
So you don't want to scare off the kids and appearance.

(01:59:35):
But I think it at the same time, you can
incorporate them blood in a in a safe way and
also in moderation. So it's not you know, it's not
like T and A or ABYSS or RBD is just
cushing buckets or rick player on National TV. You know,
but you're using a very special occasion when you roy
are trying to sell something, whether it's a pay per view,

(01:59:56):
whether it's a hot angle. You know, if if John
Cenna starts is just bleeding profusely on the raw before
WrestleMania because see them Punk opened them up. That probably
gonna increase the binds because you haven't had that, you
haven't seen that moment that only benisputed these more than
anything I've seen the last two years on w W

(02:00:17):
t V.

Speaker 21 (02:00:18):
I've gotta see. I got to order the pay per
view of you.

Speaker 2 (02:00:21):
So it's using a moderation and use it the right time.
And yeah, I think some of thing can be used effectively.
It's just I think that would be this boy concern
about sponsors and Mattel and their in their kids audience
that I think they're very hesitant to do that. What's
good reason at some point?

Speaker 6 (02:00:38):
Well yeah, but you also can use it towards the hey, kids,
don't try this at home. You know this, You know
some of this stuff can can really hurt you. You
don't want to, you want you don't want to drop
your you don't want to drop your little sister on
the on the head with a pile driver. And you
don't want to you know you know what.

Speaker 2 (02:00:52):
I'm saying, Yeah, please don't.

Speaker 6 (02:00:55):
Yeah, yeah, I don't try this at home.

Speaker 2 (02:00:58):
Yeah, those things are so cheap though, because what they
do is they mix the the storyline injuries with the
legit injuries, you know, like John Tena going through the
ten thousand a lot light bulb or what was its
spotlight or searchlight?

Speaker 5 (02:01:12):
What with the chiefs though?

Speaker 2 (02:01:13):
Was up this year? Last year?

Speaker 6 (02:01:15):
That was last year?

Speaker 5 (02:01:16):
Yeah?

Speaker 21 (02:01:17):
Yeah, yeah, so that was last year.

Speaker 2 (02:01:19):
But they incorporate that with t H getting is blown
out of plot. Just focus on the legit injuries. Don't
incorporate the storyline injury. I just think that waters down
the message. Even if the kids don't know the difference,
the adults I think do so. Uh but good point
in that seven. Back to you.

Speaker 21 (02:01:39):
Any fall up for another questions?

Speaker 6 (02:01:42):
Uh?

Speaker 2 (02:01:43):
None?

Speaker 6 (02:01:43):
I did I get for the night?

Speaker 12 (02:01:44):
Guys, you haven't get mad and appreciate.

Speaker 2 (02:01:45):
You taking my golf all right, Steven? Could hear from you?
As always, you're listening to the PW Torch Live Past
assist PW Torch Assistant Editor James Caldwell. Youant today buying
Torch corumpas Pat and the meal and we'll be here
for the next half hours taking your phone from on
the live cast for Wednesday, December twenty second.

Speaker 21 (02:02:04):
If you're going to join us live in the live cast.

Speaker 2 (02:02:06):
You give be first in line right now, as we
have all of our phone banks open for your call.
The number is six four six seven eight.

Speaker 8 (02:02:15):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (02:02:16):
Pat, We'll wait for people to go ahead and call in.
Let's go ahead and go to the Light Event Center
and take a look at the next week of TV
Rustling and the light events and all the good Russian
stuff going on in the next week. Or stove, don't
take us to the light Events for the next week.

Speaker 6 (02:02:32):
Okay, good evening, mister and Missus Caldwell and all the
ships at sea. It's time for your live event center
for this week. Tonight the special Director's cut edition of
Tribute for the Troops on USA Network. If you miss
it on Saturday night and it looks like oh over
ninety nine percent if you did.

Speaker 3 (02:02:49):
Uh.

Speaker 6 (02:02:49):
Your featured met bouts are Big Show in Kobe Kingston
versus Dolph Zigler and Jack Slagger, plus the Big six
Man Tag with Brandy Orton, John Cena and Raymisterio taking
on Richard del Rio, Wade Barrett and the Miz. Plus
live musical performances by a bunch of people I could
give a rats ass about WW Superstars on WG in
America Tomorrow night. I know that's one of your favorite shows, James,

(02:03:12):
and what a main event they have for us. It
will be best Phoenix and Kelly, Kelly taking on Layla
and Michelle McCool and tag team action also on the
Also on the show Prevo Cologne, the USO Brothers, David
hart Smith and much more on WW Superstars. Then tomorrow night,
Thursday Night TNA Impact on Spike TV, a couple of

(02:03:33):
big title matches. An iron Man Match for the TV
title between Champion Doug Williams and AJ Styles. A rematch
for the for the TV title. I'm not sure here
in TNA context whether Ironman match means fifteen minutes, twenty minutes, or.

Speaker 2 (02:03:48):
What have you.

Speaker 6 (02:03:50):
Also a four way battle, a fatal four way indeed
for the TNA Tag team titles, as the Champions of
the MotorCity Machine Guns defend against Beer Money and Rob
Van Dam and Matt Morgan and the Immortal Team of
Jeff Hardy and Abyss. Sounds like a train wreck, okay.
WW SmackDown will be replayed this Friday night on sci Fi,

(02:04:13):
just this time for Christmas Eve. In fact, you'll see
if you missed it last night. You get to see
the Miss versus Randy Orton in a non title bout,
plus John Cena taking on Dolph Ziggler and Vicky Guerrero
in a handicap match. Then, as James alluded to, the
house show loop begins this Sunday night with a raw
house show at Madison Square Garden, where your main events

(02:04:34):
are a four way cage match as the MIWS defends
a WWE title against John Cena, Randy Orton and Wade Barrett.
Hey there's a way Barrett siding, plus a New York
City street fight between John Morrison and the w w
canthering seamous Sunday afternoon, SmackDown is doing a loaded house
show in Chicago. They also have a four way make

(02:04:56):
cage match with Edge defending against Big Show Kane and
CM Punk. Yes, CM Punk will make his return on
SmackDown in his hometown of Chicago, Ring of Honor on
hd Net this Monday night. It is their best of
twenty ten episodes, so it's probably a good way to
get caught up on the stuff you missed by not
having HD Net like most of us do. Ww Raw

(02:05:19):
will be on USA Network this Monday from Albany, New York.
We'll get the latest on Johnson, the Speed with CM
Punk and the question that's on the minds of everybody
in our audience. Will Jerry the King Lawler get another
shot at the ww title? After all? He Timm is
just this past Monday.

Speaker 23 (02:05:41):
Longing for some nostalgia, or maybe you want to learn
some wrestling history, don't miss the Nineties Pass cast every
Friday on the PW Torch Daily Cast Feed. Alex and
Patrick will transport you thirty years into the past by
taking you through the Torch issue from that very week.
Follow news from the WWWCW and all the happenings from

(02:06:02):
across the wrestling industry in real time as The Torch
reported it thirty years ago. That's the Nineties Pass cast
every Friday on the PW Torch Daily.

Speaker 9 (02:06:11):
Cast Feed.

Speaker 6 (02:06:21):
GCW GCW. Great Canadian Wrestling will be in Oshawa, Ontario,
Monday Night, a huge main event for you showtime, Eric
Young takes on former WWE superstar Sean Spears, plus a
cage match James between Sebastian Swab and Boris Bresnev and
of course ww NXT coming up on Tuesday, six days

(02:06:43):
from now we'll find out if Derek Bateman can keep
his immunity momentum going, and will Connor O'Brien do something
to keep himself from getting cut in two weeks when
they do their first round of cuts, because he's shown
me pretty much nothing new Japan. Will It's Russell Kingdom
Show January fourth in Tokyo and TNA has invited along

(02:07:04):
for the ride. You're featured bout Sotshi Kojum defending the
iw GC title against Hershi Tanahashi and Jeff Hardy defends
the TNA title in Tokyo against Tetsu and Ato. Plus
Rob van Dam will be there and so will Beer Money.
And that's your live event center for this week. James,
very good.

Speaker 2 (02:07:23):
That's good to hear from uh from Japan there with
TENA being rod presented, the Russell is the Rustle Kingdom
fourth at the end of the year or the new.

Speaker 6 (02:07:33):
Berl I don't know what number it is, Ruffle Kingdom
twenty eleven, let's call it that.

Speaker 2 (02:07:39):
That'll work.

Speaker 21 (02:07:40):
That'll work just fine. I wonder if that's going to become.

Speaker 2 (02:07:46):
A global Impact special in January or February.

Speaker 3 (02:07:50):
Uh?

Speaker 8 (02:07:50):
Was it was it?

Speaker 21 (02:07:51):
Kurd Angle Russell Nagata.

Speaker 2 (02:07:53):
A couple of years ago.

Speaker 6 (02:07:54):
Yeah, that's true, though, I mean, they certainly could do that.
They're going to have We're gonna have three matches with
TNA people in it, but I'm not sure how many
of the TNA rustlers will be winning their matches, although
I suspect Jeff Hardy will so.

Speaker 2 (02:08:09):
Yeah, yeah, good vid. You hear from all that. Pat,
Let's go ahead and go back to the phone lines.
Let's go to the seven eight six area code seventy six.
Welcome to the show. Please stay your game where you're from, James,
Johnny Dallas, Hey Johnny.

Speaker 6 (02:08:26):
Hi Johnny.

Speaker 9 (02:08:27):
I'm good.

Speaker 2 (02:08:28):
I was gonna ask you you think, uh, you think
they could uh they could go with seeing Punk and
Tina and see him keeps attacking Tina.

Speaker 9 (02:08:35):
And then he goes on, you can't you can'na.

Speaker 22 (02:08:36):
You can't attack me because I'm I'm injured.

Speaker 9 (02:08:38):
I'm sitting the injured Listen.

Speaker 22 (02:08:39):
That's the way you could drag it out when I
was gonna being able to uh get ahold of punks.

Speaker 6 (02:08:45):
Yeah, well they could do it that way. However, they
were so short on men event guys that they need
Punk back right away. For some star power, so that's
not gonna be how they do it.

Speaker 2 (02:08:59):
So do you think what was mapping out on this
Mondane Rock had does seen a challenge Punk to a
match and Punk high behind I'm an announcer, or how
do you map it out either to the rumble with
them not having that matchup and then perhaps the long
term or way to WrestleMania.

Speaker 21 (02:09:15):
How do you map this thing out?

Speaker 6 (02:09:17):
Well, that's a problem because you know, I mean, based
on what we saw last week and this week. You know,
Punk obviously is acting like he wants a piece of sena,
which makes him, you know, not so much the cowardly
heel unless see I mean, I mean they could have
him refuse to wrestle scenea. I guess for a while.
I my suspicion is just because of how things are,

(02:09:40):
that they will that they will end up having your
typical w w S feud where they face off, you know,
about a dozen times in various tag matches and handicapped
matches or what have you.

Speaker 2 (02:09:50):
Yeah, I mean, I imagine what they have sixteen weeks
between now in WrestleMania. So I find it if possible
that we won't see them in the ring at least
once or twice if they go that far, and having
that matchup to Wrestlelingium and they held off with Undertaker Michaels. Uh,
but that's Undertaker Michaeley and they're not full time players,

(02:10:12):
so I don't see how they hold off one not
having them in the ring together at some point, which
went Now, I mean if that is ultimate destination, So uh,
drop that back, Sorry, Johnny, back to you any fall
up another question or from it?

Speaker 22 (02:10:28):
What do you think about Daniel Brian And Uh, we
didn't really think that was just a just again, we
didn't were either to be able to find him once
or you think that's gonna be like a something tore
going for.

Speaker 21 (02:10:37):
Yeah, that's that's really interesting to me.

Speaker 2 (02:10:39):
Pat. What did you make of Brian and Regal having
that match on Raw?

Speaker 6 (02:10:43):
Yeah, I mean I wouldn't mind seeing them if you
but boy, it's sure luck look like they were going
to do it once. They never you know, I mean,
first of all, Daniel Brian won, you know, pretty much
in a short match cleanly, and they they never touted
Regal as a former US champion or a potential challenger
for the United States titles. So yeah, Plus Regal has
made noises about he's gonna retire since so maybe this

(02:11:05):
was just you know, getting that one last match in
on TV with the guy he tied.

Speaker 2 (02:11:11):
Yeah, it was sort of interesting because you know, Regal
came out there smiling. That could have been part of
the story, but it also seemed like he broke Olympic character,
sort of like, oh my goodness, not like an all
much finness type feeling, but just you know, this is
a good thing to have this TV match with Daniel
Bryan and be able to work with him on TV
and have that match in an after match kind of applause.

(02:11:33):
Brian and the announcers were so basically talking to themselves
they didn't really acknowledge that, but I think that was
part of the story as well, with Regal applauding the
work of Daniel Bryan before Brian and the Bellows to
their thing. So to me, it was presented as the
one time deal. I wouldn't be surprised if they do
another match and make it the officials and off for Egal,

(02:11:55):
but I don't see that investing that much. At the
same time, I don't see him investing.

Speaker 21 (02:11:59):
That much TV.

Speaker 2 (02:12:00):
I means to William Regal, especially not in a let's
send let's give him a sendoff type of of of
TV Spotlight. So right now I'm gonna do the impression
was one off, but I have to say that I
wouldn't be surprised if they do another match. So Johnny
another thought on that, any other questions? No, the next

(02:12:21):
My next question was, edgu lady's been name dropping Christian
a lot. Do you see any chance on him with
him and and and.

Speaker 21 (02:12:29):
Christian for the wrestling.

Speaker 22 (02:12:31):
He's been name dropping him a lot in the recent
weeks already, like he's been goping like three times already.

Speaker 2 (02:12:37):
Yes, what do you think?

Speaker 6 (02:12:40):
I mean, it's possible, I you know, unless something has changed. Uh.
Ben Sickmann does not see Christian as the main inventor
and probably and so if he did have a match
with Edge, it probably wouldn't be for the title of WrestleMania.

Speaker 3 (02:12:53):
I mean.

Speaker 6 (02:12:53):
Plus, well, the other thing is, I don't know when
Christians scheduled to come back, So you know, if we
knew that, that would make things a little more clear
at what's going on.

Speaker 2 (02:13:02):
Yeah, I think that Christian, I mean I don't see
him in a main event with I don't see him
to May even in WrestleMania for the you know, for
the first point, do I see him with maybe having
a match with Edge in a you know, let's the
Edge drops it, not out between now in WrestleMania. I

(02:13:23):
could see that being a sort of in an attraction
match in the under card for for WrestleMania, but I
don't see it title being involved in that. And I
don't see them. I don't see a recent man having
confidence in or believing that Christian is a guy that
he wants to put in the SmackDown main event, even
if it is a SmackDown main event at WrestleMania.

Speaker 21 (02:13:43):
Where does Christian fit in?

Speaker 2 (02:13:44):
I see him as being, you know, just put him
in the money in the bank match in WrestleMania. Uh,
that's sort of the swath that w B puts him
in most most typically, and I don't see it being
any different. So, you know, could they do something leading
up to the rum Well, it does depend on whether
Christian comes back before the Rumbull and maybe they have

(02:14:05):
a friendly rivalry, but you also Christian who'll probably defend
the world title against Kane at the Rumble, So I
don't know. I don't know if it's just sort of
Edge just name dropping Christian to keep his name on TV,
and the not really leading to anything between them two
in the first you know, the first four months of
the year. I don't see that happen.

Speaker 5 (02:14:27):
But I don't know.

Speaker 2 (02:14:29):
I mean, kind are we looking at Edgie and Christian
if you didn't to get each other as a tag team,
what do you think is the most likely thing that
we would see between them two?

Speaker 6 (02:14:38):
Well, I mean we've we've seen how WW treats tag
teams and how important they are in the general scheme
of things, So I get Plus. The only problem is
we've seen Edge and Christian feud before. I mean maybe
you haven't, but it was they did Field nine years
ago when their matches were you know, they weren't awful,
but they were considered kind of disappointing because generally you
think people who know each other that well are going

(02:14:58):
to put together or are going to make it easy
and put together something, you know, something better than your
normal match.

Speaker 21 (02:15:05):
Yeah, I remember that.

Speaker 2 (02:15:06):
It wasn't good. It's kind of like Matt and Jeff
they had their first big matchup and it's stunk, you know,
it was it wasn't very interesting, and it's just one
of those things where you'd rather see them together than
against each other. I think similar styles, kind of similar
way they work. And unless you had the audience with

(02:15:27):
a strong connection and if there's a strong program and
you have a strong connection to one or the other,
not just oh, these are the two guys that we
remember and now they're having a match against each other.
I don't think that works too well. There's gotta be
a strong issue and a strong reason it's here for
one or the other, I think, and I don't think
there was that. And the two examples of egin Christian

(02:15:48):
and Matt and Jeff So Johnny good here from you
today and thanks for falling in.

Speaker 21 (02:15:55):
Let's go to our next.

Speaker 2 (02:15:56):
Phone call here in the live cast from the three
four seven four seven. Welcome to the show, and we've
pitched you name of where you're from.

Speaker 11 (02:16:05):
My name is Christian, New York. A. First bit, my
question is, depending on how the ratings do for Smackdowns,
do you ever receive Snackdown being moved off Friday nights
onto another night in terms of that's more to something
well to ratings growth, so to speak.

Speaker 21 (02:16:24):
Good question, Chris, that's take.

Speaker 6 (02:16:26):
I'm kind of surprised they haven't done it already because
they used to get better ratings on Thursday night, and
you know, I think, I mean, I think they might
look at it again, depending on how many people watch
Snackdown last night on USA Network.

Speaker 2 (02:16:40):
Yeah, and we don't have ratings and yet on that,
but hopefully we'll get some ratings information and find out
how they did. To me, I almost look to that
that Tuesday night Live special as almost kind of keeping
at war for Tough Enough.

Speaker 21 (02:16:53):
I mean, they haven't announced any.

Speaker 2 (02:16:55):
Details officially on when Stuffing Up will air and whether
it'll be a week show or special, or if it
will be part of Raw or SmackDown, because that live
special on Tuesday have been a sort of a test
run for Tough Enough on Tuesday nights.

Speaker 6 (02:17:11):
Well, I mean, yeah, that's possible. My guess though, is
that they're going to do tough Enough. At least their
idea for Tough Enough is to put it on Monday
nights at eight, right before Raw and then get the
three hour wrestling block, which which USA Network you know,
has sort of been pushing them for for the past
year or so. But yeah, yeah, they could do it
on Tuesday.

Speaker 2 (02:17:32):
Yeah, that was something I thought about when they first
launched Tough Enough, is that might be a way they
finally get their three hours of programming on Monday nights
that I think they did three hours of raw would
be the end of that that show. Over a period
of time, they prove it they do not have the
ability to write a three hours show on a regular basis.

(02:17:53):
You know, they had three three hours shows that were
five week period and it was terrible.

Speaker 6 (02:17:58):
Well my last actually names they just prove that they
can't do it very well.

Speaker 21 (02:18:03):
Yeah, that's true.

Speaker 2 (02:18:05):
That's true. You put it that way. Yeah, it just
becomes superfluous where they don't need an extra hour of TV.
There isn't a demand for it, and they don't have
the star power forward. There's neither demand nor supply, and
that's when you don't do another hour. But like you said,
they can't do it well and uh so, yeah, your
point is definitely voute on that.

Speaker 6 (02:18:25):
On that pet.

Speaker 21 (02:18:28):
But let's go back to you, Chris, did you have
another fault for another question?

Speaker 11 (02:18:32):
Well, I felt with regards to Paul Cogan, with all
of the back issues and the major surgeries, can you
finally say that he will not wrestle anymore because it's
too it's too dangerous.

Speaker 6 (02:18:42):
For his health. I can't say that because it's because A,
you know, Hogan has sort of has sort of faked
being injured worse than he is before. And and B,
I mean I think if there's another buck to be
wrung out of it, Hogan will, Hogan will drag himself
into the ring, and so he will keep doing it
until he is literally physically not capable of doing it.

Speaker 2 (02:19:05):
And even then, I'm sure they find a way too,
you know, did you I mean, can we see Rick
Flair and old Cogan have a match ten years from now?

Speaker 6 (02:19:15):
It's like, uh, don't ask me that. I mean it's possible.
I think it would be a bad idea.

Speaker 2 (02:19:23):
Well, of course it would be a bad idea, But
I mean, could you put those two guys out there?
I mean, it's even it's even terrible thinking about it now,
for those two guys out there again in a one
on one match in twenty ten.

Speaker 6 (02:19:38):
I mean, you know what game If t A is
still around in twenty twenty, and if the same people
are still in charge, they will put Hull Cogan versus
Rick Flair out on the first hour of impact with
no build up.

Speaker 2 (02:19:55):
Oh man, I look at I don't look at the
Christmas Eve edition where nobody's watching too.

Speaker 6 (02:20:00):
It's kind of like that.

Speaker 21 (02:20:03):
Yeah, Hulko get back in the ring. Yeah, until he.

Speaker 2 (02:20:08):
Either cannot physically get into a wheelchair and cannot physically
get into the ring. I would not route the possibility
it didn't have another match, especially because wrestling matches in
T and A until a lesser extending w B. It's
not so much about any athletic competition anymore. It's just

(02:20:29):
you know, getting.

Speaker 21 (02:20:30):
Entertaining for five minutes.

Speaker 6 (02:20:31):
All right, yeah, all right, I'll give you I'll give
you a better example. Didn't we just see didn't we
just see May Young wrestle a month ago?

Speaker 2 (02:20:40):
Then there you go, perfect Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:20:43):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (02:20:43):
If they can find a way to get a body
into a ring and do something bell to bell, they
will do it. Yeah, and that falls with that. Hulkogan
falls through that category. Good example, fat great. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:21:01):
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Speaker 2 (02:21:34):
Thank you so much, Chris.

Speaker 6 (02:21:38):
Let's go to your.

Speaker 2 (02:21:39):
Final Dotter comment.

Speaker 11 (02:21:43):
I don't have anything else. Thank you very much.

Speaker 2 (02:21:45):
Great God hear from me Chris. As always appreciate your call.
And again you're listening to the B to B tors
Live dat and this is to assistant editor James Caldwell,
host today alongside Towards Calm its Pat Me Neil. You'll
be here for the next twelve minutes here on the
live cast and if you want to jump on the
phone lines to give us a live listen or a
live fall, number to call is six four six nine

(02:22:09):
eight eight. Currently we don't have anyone else on the
in the phone banks. You can be first in line
right now to get your to get your question or
comment on the live cast today. Uh Pat, we just
had the T to B Torch newsletter posted online last night.
Wait Keller got the Torch editor got that online last night.
So as available to Torch v IP members you're not

(02:22:31):
at towrts VFP members, you can access all the information
on how to subscribe and subscription rates at PW Torch
dot com slash go vip. All that good info is
available there, including access to last night's Torch newsletter posted online.
Uh Pat, I believe you have your your roundtable review
of the TLC pay per view in this week's Torch newsletter.

(02:22:54):
What did you rate the TLC pay per view view?

Speaker 6 (02:22:57):
I think I gave it a five point five because
you have there were two very good matches on there,
and you and you thought, James, you know what I'm
talking about. But first of all, you know there there
wasn't the urgency that there was a musty show. Secondly,
when you put three ladder matches on the same show,
it's sort of diminished. It's sort of a it's diminishing returns,
you know. But I mean, but you know, by the

(02:23:17):
end of the show. You didn't really want to see
any more tables or ladders. It's here for a while.

Speaker 21 (02:23:23):
Yeah, I agree with that by either of that show.

Speaker 2 (02:23:26):
Uh, then I of the building, I did not want
to see another giving match for a long time. There
certainly had our had my still of it being there
in the building. I think the audience was actually released.
Do you see a main events where there was not
a table or a ladder involved? So I think the
audience did not find there being Way Bear versus John

(02:23:47):
Skina in the main events that I know that you
and then and Waye Keller and Bruce Mitchell talked about
the match order at CLC and the audio round table
afterwards kind of shore your thoughts on the way they
int it with you know, Edge and his world title
with victory being the stem on main event. That could
have been your you know field good moment in the

(02:24:07):
pay per view, but there was a John Cena.

Speaker 21 (02:24:10):
Field good moment?

Speaker 2 (02:24:11):
Was that the right call?

Speaker 3 (02:24:12):
Was that?

Speaker 21 (02:24:12):
Okay?

Speaker 2 (02:24:13):
Was it a bad thing? What was your opinion of
how they kind of put the match order together for
the pay per view?

Speaker 6 (02:24:19):
Well, you know, normally you think you want to put
your championship match on last because your championship matches is
more important. However, you know, based on the crowd reaction,
I mean Edge got got you know, a very low
reaction from the people in Houston and you were there,
and you compare that to the noises, you know, compare
that to how into John Cena those fans where you
gotta figure they made the correct call.

Speaker 2 (02:24:42):
Yeah, Edge for his I'm just going based off ring introductions.
I think Edge was number four or five Baby Faith
there was, John Cena was number one, Rainyant was number two. Uh,
I think Ray was number three. Kofy and Edge were
about to same level. Actually, if I think about this,
and that might be because you know, Coke was you know,

(02:25:05):
in the opening match and the crowd was still warming
up to this show. I think Edge cult were about
the same level was reaction. Yeah. I think at the
end of that match when Edge one, I think the
crowd was so exhausted that there wasn't that much a
reaction to him pointing. It was sort of a yay,
but it wasn't like a John Kenny yact. You know,

(02:25:26):
it wasn't excited yet.

Speaker 6 (02:25:29):
It was yeah, this show is over or almost yeah.
Well yeah, well, I mean people. Yeah, people were happy
to see Edge wind that clearly wasn't the most important
thing on this show. And then, you know, I think
smarter part of that is the way that they that
they treat SmackDown, which you know, maybe maybe putting it
on Tuesday nights is gonna and him. Maybe they'll do

(02:25:49):
that and they'll end up being the right thing.

Speaker 22 (02:25:51):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (02:25:52):
And you also have the Edge Kane Paul Bear Storylineline
and how that did that just damnite character was it
just's just Edged being part of another stilly angle.

Speaker 6 (02:26:05):
I thought it did damage to pretty much everybody watching
the show, and in terms of you know, it made
them not want to watch the show anymore.

Speaker 2 (02:26:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (02:26:14):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (02:26:14):
Then they were also faced on last night SmackDown. It
appears we're going to get more vegetine with them continuing
that and setting up what we presume to be a
rematch with the Rumble, which means five more weeks of TV.
Why uh, how do they stretch it out bad? I mean,
what do you do with why we TV going to

(02:26:35):
the Rumbles?

Speaker 6 (02:26:37):
I don't know. Maybe maybe they wrestle before the Rumble,
which is what you talked about, or maybe they you know,
maybe they're they're figuring that they never actually did an
edge cane match with a you know, with a with
a real finish to it, so they do they have
an excuse to get that out of the way, and
and maybe they just figure, you know, the rumble is
gonna draw anyway, no matter no matter what the SmackDown
title matches, which is probably closer to the truth. Uh I,

(02:27:01):
I don't know how they're gonna get six more weeks
out of it. But you know when you figure that
the New Year's Eve show already has uh they already
announced Edge and Ray versus Alberto Del Rio and Kane
for that show. Yeah, they they have some ideas on
how to stretch it out.

Speaker 2 (02:27:15):
And you know on SmackDown this on Tuesday, they also
put Kobe Kingston and Jack Swagger into you know, into
a match with with Ray and Del Rio. I believe
it was. Do you think that kofee and Swagger or
are in line for a push or is it just
let's make them look a little bit more important going

(02:27:36):
into the rumbolts where oh maybe they have a chance
to win. Let me you know, especially with Kofe, I'm
gonna think there's someone mentionin kofe right now, maybe to
entice a buy uh from I guess the most ardent
of Kobe Kingston's fans. But or is it just sort
of a let's just selectively build up a couple of
guys a little bit more stronger than the usual heading

(02:27:58):
into the royal ruffles.

Speaker 6 (02:27:59):
Well, also, be nobody's gonna watch this show over the
next couple of weeks because of the holiday, So yeah,
let's let's not do anything important until after the holiday
when people are watching again.

Speaker 2 (02:28:09):
Yeah, yeah, that's true, especially with the you know, they
have a New Year's Eve show uh next Friday, So
you know, if you if you look at it, it'll
be about two weeks until they have another important show
with the replay of this Friday and then the New
Year's Eve special next Friday. So it's going to be
a while before there's another important show relatively speaking for

(02:28:30):
spectdown on you know, January sixth seventh, something like that.
So I think, like you said, Pat, it's a way
to remind people of who the characters are. I hope
they'll remember them in a couple of weeks and make
them seem a little bit more important going to the holidays.

Speaker 6 (02:28:45):
Yeah, yeah, please call in everybody.

Speaker 2 (02:28:50):
Uh again, we have a we have five.

Speaker 21 (02:28:52):
Minutes to open the ball lines.

Speaker 2 (02:28:53):
We've got uh six four six nine eight two eight,
and to join us here on the live cast and
us from talking about more SmackDown, Pat, you and I
in the after show, we'll talk a little bit about
some year end items, uh some some of the items
about you know, maybe who's been a uh maybe the
biggest story of the year so far in twenty ten

(02:29:13):
and some ritey stars.

Speaker 21 (02:29:15):
We'll talk about it as we kind of look ahead.

Speaker 2 (02:29:16):
At the year end award that we do every year
here at the TB Torch dot com. Pat, Well, let's
go in and shook a little bit to the rock side.
And you've got to like we're talking about the miss
and John Morrison, you know John Tena, Sam Punks, Uh,
Vicky Carrero and in the treatment of her on raw
And we'll talk a little bit about this over in

(02:29:38):
the show, about the way that the writers script for
Vicky and and the way they present her and uh,
it just it just seems callous. How do you evaluate
this going forward in that why did they do it?
What are they trying to accomplish? And will it benefits
to be in any regard the way to present her character.

Speaker 6 (02:30:00):
I don't know why they do it. I think that
they are just that tone deaf to how you know,
how people interact in twenty ten or twenty eleven. I mean,
I mean, you know, Doug, there's there's a woman who
doesn't have breast implants and you know, and looks like
a real woman. So it's makes fun of her, you know.
And and and Vicky's not the first person they've done

(02:30:20):
this to.

Speaker 2 (02:30:23):
Yeah, and she won't people ask one either, probably not. Yeah,
it's uh, I mean it is.

Speaker 6 (02:30:32):
I mean, this may be the reasons. This may be
the reason Stephanie his hand hasn't been on television for
a while because you a little bit, Uh she looks
like yeah, because she's had three children, yeah, or they
or they.

Speaker 21 (02:30:45):
Just showed her.

Speaker 2 (02:30:45):
The only time they showed her was the the the
neck up when they were in the the Evincing Man
and uh what was the Koma skitch.

Speaker 21 (02:30:54):
Yeah, when they just showed her from.

Speaker 2 (02:30:55):
The neck up, So they didn't reveal how she looks now, which,
oh my goodness, she looks horrible on TV. You know,
based on their mindset whereas.

Speaker 6 (02:31:06):
Yeah, yeah, that's sort of that's that's sort of the
way they look at things, and I think it's self defeating.

Speaker 9 (02:31:12):
I mean, yeah, okay.

Speaker 6 (02:31:14):
I mean there's an article which I which I put
in the in the VIP formed I linked to. It's
from the I think it was from the Wall Street Journal.
What's talked about? You know, the number one show in
American television is American Football. But the the the interesting
part of it is it's also very popular among women,
which you wouldn't figure that. I mean, there is a
market there for this sort of thing. You just can't

(02:31:35):
you just can't blow it off and say, oh, women
will never watch professional wrestling. Maybe they will if you're
treat them with some respect. And you know, I mean, yeah,
WUG is bad enough with how they do it. Tn
A is usually worse, you know. I mean I can't
imagine any any woman I know sitting through two hours
of that.

Speaker 2 (02:31:55):
Yeah, or or they'll watch to a certain extent and
they'll turn the channels and they won't come back. You know,
it's just you know how much you take.

Speaker 6 (02:32:01):
It to your.

Speaker 2 (02:32:04):
We have one more phone always someone that just jumps
on the phone line. So let's go ahead and go
to our next phone call from the seven to oh
Aria Coat seven duo. Welcome to the show. Please stay
your name of where you're from.

Speaker 24 (02:32:15):
Hi, this is Katie from Boulder.

Speaker 21 (02:32:18):
Hey Katie, hear from you.

Speaker 24 (02:32:20):
Yeah, for said, well, actually I came and I actually
jumped on the show a little late because I didn't
know if you had talked about Dickie yet. And then
perfect we already were right now, Yeah, perfect timing.

Speaker 3 (02:32:33):
I'd like to see that.

Speaker 6 (02:32:36):
You know, she was courtsying out there. She was like
about to last half the time.

Speaker 14 (02:32:40):
Yeah, But the problem is nineteen, I'm not sure whether.

Speaker 24 (02:32:47):
Their female audience really would appreciate this if I was,
you know, if I was a mom that was having
my kids there or you know, watching the show with
my children, and I thought somebody who maybe maybe a
little over a little over late, but you know about
my age, maybe looks like me and the main baby

(02:33:10):
face just laying into her and how ugly that she
is or whatever, that would just I don't know, that
would turn me off and maybe questioning whether I should
let me child here and watch it.

Speaker 2 (02:33:25):
I don't agree. John c jumping in and joining Jerry
Lawler in the back and forth joke time. I just
thought that was so dishonorable for John Zena as a character,
and especially the way he's supposed to appeal to that
demographic of kids and with some parents. I just I
thought that was the worst one. I mean, worse than
him dancing or any other changing things he does. I

(02:33:47):
just think it's tone death and it's not funny. It's
and I don't think it's a good example. And then
I don't think an audience is gonna, you know, continue
to watch the programming if that, if that, if that
keeps up. So Katie, uh, everyone listen to the live
cast todaything we have give members stick around for the

(02:34:08):
after show.

Speaker 25 (02:34:15):
I'm Kelly Wells, host of p w T Talks NXT,
the longest running NXT podcast Anywhere. Join me along with
Nate Lindberg, Bruce Lee, Hazelwood and special guests live every
Tuesday night, just minutes after NXT, where we cover the good,
the bad, and the ugly on the way to becoming
a star in w w E. Check us out live
on YouTube or stream later wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 6 (02:35:00):
Thank you for using blog talk radio.

Speaker 2 (02:35:02):
Goodbye, all right, The after fortune of the show. Did
you have any false thoughts on what what Katie had
to say about you know, sort of the the reactions
from the kids and the parents, the parents, you know,
bringing their kids to the show and seeing that type
of uh there's the hero ultimate babyface and the reaction

(02:35:23):
that that he had Terry Lawler's jokes and joining in. Uh,
you know, do you have full thoughts on that topic?

Speaker 6 (02:35:29):
Well, I mean, we we've we've already I mean, she
pretty much was in line with with what I was saying,
what you were saying. We've already talked about it twice,
and and you know, I I think, uh, I think
we've pretty much covered it. I mean, this is you know,
it's a bad idea for WW to do this there.
You know, Vicky Guerrero is a heel character. There is
plenty for her to uh you know, there's plenty to

(02:35:52):
uh make fun of her with. If you're a baby
basic and accuse her of being a a some sort
of a sexual predator or or you know, or just
a mean you know, or just a mean person or
what have you. You don't need to you don't need
to go there.

Speaker 21 (02:36:07):
Yep, I'll really agree. Let's look at let's look at.

Speaker 10 (02:36:12):
Some year end items.

Speaker 2 (02:36:13):
I think it's kind of interesting to go ahead and
and start talking about that ahead of the year in
the wards coming up here in December and January. The
biggest story of the year, Pat, and we can kind of,
you know, break this down. And I think if you
bring it down by TNA, we all know what the
biggest story of the year is, which is just the
failed regime with folk O Vishoff. But yeah, if you're

(02:36:34):
gonna break down your top five stories is the year, Pat,
what do you think they are right now?

Speaker 6 (02:36:39):
I think, you know, I think your number one story
in terms of following the industry, it comes down to
w w E loses a bunch of main inventors and
there and their buy rates start plumbing. And it's a
trend that's been going on sort of for the past
eight years. But there's there's definitely a correlation. You don't
have undertaker, you know, well, you haven't an undertaker most

(02:37:00):
much of the year, and now he's injured and may
never wrestle again. John Michael's retired, Dave Batista left and
has indicated he's not coming back. Chris Jericho is on
what I guess you'd call it extended leave of absence.
There's probably a triple eights has been injured most of
the year. There's probably a couple more than have missed.

Speaker 21 (02:37:18):
Yeah's injured.

Speaker 6 (02:37:20):
Yeah, yeah, Punk was injured. Brain, mystereo has been injured.
He's on and off. Yeah, you know, yeah, I mean
that's I mean, that's yeah. And w W is you know,
w WE, you know, likes to produce new stars at
the rate of one or two a year, and uh,
you know that's not gonna that's not gonna cut it
right now. They need to I mean, they need to
get moving.

Speaker 2 (02:37:41):
Where does Brett Hart returning to w W fall in
the year in ring because they kind of you know,
they took care of that by Wrestlemanius. So that was
the first quarter of the year, and we really haven't
other than that sort of car crash angles, right, Hart,
We haven't seen much from Heart this year in the
second half. Uh, where does that phone in the top five?

(02:38:02):
Is that even?

Speaker 21 (02:38:03):
Is that even up through that by the end of
the year, probably why not.

Speaker 6 (02:38:07):
You know, they wrapped up what they were doing with
Bett Hart at summerslamm and that was a good, happy ending.
And before that You've had another sort of happy ending
at WrestleMania. So I mean it turned out to be,
you know, less of a big deal, but it would
have benefit had happened ten years ago a lot less.

Speaker 2 (02:38:23):
Yeah, most definitely, it's sort of like probably the most
surreal story of the year. But I don't know that
it necessarily turned out to be the biggest story of
the year, because I mean it was part of a
big period for wrestling that you know, January fourth, you know,
with T and A and w Raw going ahead to
have and played Hartvel Pogan, Sean Michael's all that. But

(02:38:46):
in terms of having to lack the impact on the business,
I don't think it really did. It was just sort
of a moment in time, and I don't know that
makes it a top five story of the year. So
it's kind of interesting how it kind of happened in
the twelve years of you know, waiting to see if
Bright Hart would ever come back, it happened, and then

(02:39:07):
we kind of move on, and yeah.

Speaker 6 (02:39:10):
I think that's fair, and I you know, I can't
really we're having a tough time figuring out exactly what
the top five stories would be and what order, But
you're the news guy, So I'll let you lead somewhat.

Speaker 11 (02:39:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:39:24):
Next, uh, does that make it as a top five
story of collecting seven guys who had never been on
national TV other than Dania Bryan if he can kind
of you know, take him out of the picture, who
had never been on national TV before, and all of
a sudden they're in a Summer Flam main event.

Speaker 21 (02:39:42):
I mean, where does this duck just.

Speaker 2 (02:39:43):
Fall in that top five?

Speaker 6 (02:39:46):
Dude? Okay, well, let's think about this. I meay, number
one is the whole w W you know, WW loses
it's you know, loses a bunch of stars and the
business goes down. Number two is probably the false the
the sort of Monday Night or number three is TNA
losing a bunch of money with hul Coogan. Let's say, yeah,
it's kind of hard, you know. Maybe number four is

(02:40:09):
you know, wrestling becomes more receptive to the idea that
concussions are a bad thing and they should cut them out.
And then I think number five might be the the
rise of the online pay per view, which is going
to you know, which is helping you know, Ring of
Honor and probably Dragon get us a stay in business.

Speaker 2 (02:40:27):
Yeah, yeah, I think you're right about that, and I
believe Ring of Honor drew uh that pay per views
so you know fifty.

Speaker 6 (02:40:38):
Yeah, I mean I've seen reported they made something along
the line to ten thousand dollars you know, prop it
off of that pay per view, which for Ring of Honor,
that's that's kind of important. They you know, they have
been living hands them out for a while.

Speaker 2 (02:40:52):
Yeah, I mean, shoot up a DVD. I mean, how
much would Ring of Honor make off of a high end,
buzzworthy DVD?

Speaker 6 (02:41:00):
Uh That I don't know, And they've always been, you know,
they've always uh been keeping that to themselves. I think
DVD sales in the wrestling business are down as a
whole this year. And yeah, maybe another story that gets
into the top five is, you know, is between piracy
and torrents and what have you. You know, it's people
are finding ways of getting the product. And it's not

(02:41:22):
just wrestling. There's other there's other shows and movies that
are dealing with this. People are finding a way to
get products without paying for them.

Speaker 2 (02:41:29):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 21 (02:41:30):
Yeah, and that's definitely a factor.

Speaker 2 (02:41:32):
I mean, Drian get usas have to deal with that,
and yeah, I mean it's top maybe maybe a top
ten story is how piracy and touring is affect uh,
not only the consumption of wrestling, but also you know,
the business is trying to stay in business promoting wrestling,
So I mean, you know, and.

Speaker 6 (02:41:49):
And again it's it's it's something that you know, it's
really effected the music industry and and uh and the
movie industry and you know in books.

Speaker 2 (02:41:58):
For you know, even hiracy of books that.

Speaker 6 (02:42:03):
If you can read the book online without paying for it, then.

Speaker 2 (02:42:06):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think there's so many different things
that people feel the need to consume, and so you
have to almost rationalize yourself, well, I need to consume
not and I need to I want to. I want
to consume this, but I don't think it's worth but
the price tag or my perception of the price tag,

(02:42:26):
so I will find a way to go around it.
And eventually that model will crash because the people producing
the content or are not going to be paid and
they're not going to make money and they're not going
to going to pay people who are trying to help
them produce the content. Yeah, so it's just like, yeah,
I think another story I guess gonna putting off of

(02:42:50):
the idea of Internet pay for you is that is
this a new way to market sort of independent wrestlers,
and it's you know, not every promotion has a national
TV outlet. Then another promotion is producing DVDs that people
are buying and watching. Is the Internet pay per vi
form to introduce new stars?

Speaker 6 (02:43:08):
Well, the Internet has sort of been for several years.
I think maybe it replaces. I think maybe the online
pay per view is good. Is replacing the DVD as
a way to move things because you know, because if
you've got it online, it's stored, you know, like data
in your hard drive or on a flash drive, and
you know, you don't need to have the huge tape
in DVD collection that people like myself and Wade Keller

(02:43:31):
are trying to find ways to get down into something smaller.

Speaker 2 (02:43:35):
Yeah, I think more on demand features. I think Ring
of Honor Or hg net has an on demand future
of the offer Ring of Honor Or. I think they're
going to roll that out maybe in twenty eleven of
it that might be what it is it is, but yeah,
more of that. I think more on demand features from
Ring of Honor, Drinking USDA and if in the emotions,

(02:43:57):
you know, p tw BG, you know, Jersey All for
All whatever from I think like Waited Yesterday having complete
collections of law episodes or Nitro or W. I mean
they put it on the on demand video on demand
service on W that W offers. So why not just
offer a video library and you can actually access and

(02:44:21):
you know, digitally flipped through and be able to find
an episode you want to watch.

Speaker 6 (02:44:24):
I think, and this is something that we couldn't have
you know, we couldn't have comprehended twenty years ago when
we had our you know, when we had our VHS
tapes and and we're and we're trying to try and
to record an episode of you know, of WW Primetime
Wrestling or something. Yeah. Right, you know you never thought
that there would be that that sort of market where
you know, where somebody would would have the entire library

(02:44:48):
of any promotion and you'd be able to pull something
out of it. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:44:53):
Yeah, that TB network offering you know, right, I have.

Speaker 6 (02:44:57):
Email questions if if you're interested, James, great.

Speaker 2 (02:45:00):
Yeah, split my mind. But yeah, let's go and go
to the McNeil mailbag. Of course, it's available in the
Pat McNeil zone. The p tw B Torch form VIP members,
you can drop a question in the Pat McNeil listener
the listeners uh listener thread.

Speaker 6 (02:45:15):
Is that the official title if the listener mail thread,
it's one on the Pat McNeil zone. It's right there
at the top.

Speaker 8 (02:45:22):
And there you go.

Speaker 1 (02:45:25):
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Speaker 2 (02:46:01):
Go vi IP. There you go.

Speaker 6 (02:46:07):
Okay. First question is from Ed from Norfolk, who is
on the board as notorious nine to ten. One of
the questions, I'm not going to ask you, James, because
specifically for Wade. But yeah, I don't know why they
do that, okay, Ed writs, one of the reasons I
heard Vincent Mann was not a fan of maintenvant tag
team wrestling is that he does not see the need
to pay for wrestlers for a match. With that said,

(02:46:27):
there have been single four ways, six pack challenges, ten
man tags, and Battle Royals headlining pay per views and television.
Do you know if this is still a reason Vince
uses or is he oblivious to the irony. It's still
a reason Vince uses. Although I don't know if you've
ever read the torch talk that Wade did some years
back with the late Road Warrior. Hawk Hawk explained that

(02:46:48):
Vincent Maan solved the problem by by taking what he
would pay a top singles wrestler and splitting it in
half and giving it to a tag team. So yeah, yeah,
maybe money, yeah, but I mean that's yeah. I mean,
I've I've heard independent promoters talking about well when you know,
talking about, well, we need to get rid of our
tag ting division, so enough to pay as many wrestlers
you know at the back end. Yeah, I mean it's

(02:47:11):
a concern it comes up. However, you know, one of
the advantages that WWE has over the TNA and Ring
of Honor and people like that is they can bust
out a match like the like the Royal Rumboldt for example,
coming up in January, which has thirty you know, top
to mid card wrestlers in it, and it's something that
that nobody else can provide. So so I mean that

(02:47:33):
when you have more wrestlers than anybody else, you can
use that as an advantage. But you know, in my opinion,
they should have a bigger roster than they have already.
What would what would everything that WWE does and and
and they don't and you know they I mean they
do things. I'm the cheap for a company that says so, yeah,
Vince the years of that reason and he he wouldn't

(02:47:53):
see it as irony.

Speaker 2 (02:47:56):
I think also that you know, it's it's it's the
travel expensive and in two people who constitute one act,
and that's the reason you already have the You already
have the main event guys who are going to be
at the show. So if you put them in a
four way, then you can split that payoff, uh four
ways into the two ways. Yeah, and so I think

(02:48:17):
it's kind of two different things in that. Uh. You
either if you have a four way match and you
don't have to say, okay, well you're the main draw,
you can you can almost do it in a way
where you say all four of you are the main
draw because we created this great concept of a four
way match engine. We all know that's not reality, but
that's how they would tell the talent. So you can
split that payoff four ways. But if you have a

(02:48:38):
tag game in a man event match, then you've got
to pay two guys a main event pay and w
B doesn't want to do that.

Speaker 6 (02:48:46):
Okay, very good. The next question is what promotion from
the territory days would you have liked to attend in
person that you never had the opportunity to. I guess
for me it would be World Class Championship Presley. It
was all going on in Dallas in the eighties and
I wasn't anywhere near Dallas. You know, it would have
been nice to attend a couple of those shows.

Speaker 2 (02:49:06):
James, Yeah, that was the first day I came to mind,
was Bord Class and the Sportatorium, and I, uh, probably
one of my regrets in life is not being born
and to be able to go to the Sportatorium show
when it was hot.

Speaker 21 (02:49:19):
I was born a few tears, I guess two years.

Speaker 2 (02:49:22):
Too late of their Yeah, if I had to go
back in time, that would be where I would go.

Speaker 6 (02:49:27):
Yeah, I think so that's I think that's kind of
the obvious answer. All right, Uh up, Next is Matthew
w Thanatik.

Speaker 15 (02:49:33):
Who is you know?

Speaker 6 (02:49:34):
We He's answer asked questions before Matthew writes. First question,
what's the what's the name of what's the website of
Wade's blog? Again, that'll be Wade Keller dot com and
take a drink. Next question, one of the best and
worst Christmas themed angles in wrestling history? And how does
the TNA Christmas Cage rate?

Speaker 9 (02:49:55):
Oh?

Speaker 6 (02:49:56):
My, you know, I don't know. I don't remember that.
What was the Christmas t did a Christmas Things episode
and I know they had a I'll have to look
it up, but they actually had a barbed wire Christmas
Tree match on Impact Christmas Tree.

Speaker 2 (02:50:10):
I remember this.

Speaker 6 (02:50:11):
Oh goodness, this was two or three years ago. Not
let me let me look it up for you. Yeah,
they had a let's see, I don't I don't remember
the Christmas cage. No, I think if I remember correctly
the Christmas case, they had a cage match and they
strung Christmas lights around the around the wires of the cage.

Speaker 3 (02:50:27):
I'm not.

Speaker 6 (02:50:30):
I'm not making this up, James.

Speaker 2 (02:50:32):
I would remember that. I would think I would remember that.

Speaker 6 (02:50:36):
But okay, yeah we do. Uh, okay, yeah, that's okay.
Here it is Christmas chaos match. Let me uh, let
me pull this up for you. This would be yep,
December twentieth, two thousand and seven, there was a steel
cage with Christmas lights, a Christmas chaos match on impact.

Speaker 9 (02:51:00):
It was.

Speaker 6 (02:51:02):
Let's see it was who is this? It was Beer
Money teaming with Lance Hoyt and Jimmy Rave against Booker T,
Scott Steiner, Homicide, and Hernandez. That happened.

Speaker 2 (02:51:13):
Yeah, yeah. The rating for that show is the are
you ready for it? Pat?

Speaker 6 (02:51:20):
What do you think?

Speaker 2 (02:51:20):
What do you think the rating was for that show?

Speaker 6 (02:51:22):
One point one?

Speaker 18 (02:51:26):
That was.

Speaker 2 (02:51:28):
Uh the preview show did the one? That show did
me one point one and the next show did the one.

Speaker 6 (02:51:35):
Okay, let me find uh, let me see, I can
pull up the barbier Christmas stream that might have been
on the same show. Hold, I don't know, I know
that's that's hard to fathom, but.

Speaker 2 (02:51:46):
No way would on the same show Christmas.

Speaker 6 (02:51:50):
Cast in the cage double North Pole match.

Speaker 2 (02:51:54):
I think you remember that one more than the cage match.

Speaker 9 (02:51:56):
Uh.

Speaker 6 (02:51:56):
The Santo's Workshop knockout Street Sight was character Yes, yes,
in fact, that black ring was in this match. Uh
it was. It was actually called a Silent Night, Bloody
Night match. There was a barbed wire Christmas tree in
the ring. It was a it was a fore way.
It was Abyss versus Black Rain versus Shark Boy versus Relic, which,

(02:52:21):
by the way, is keller spelled backwards. Yes, and and
they and uh and and they ended it with the
loser wears a reindeer suit match. Yes, yes, AJ didn't
have to wear the reindeer suit.

Speaker 2 (02:52:36):
There you go.

Speaker 21 (02:52:38):
It's all coming back to me now.

Speaker 2 (02:52:39):
For some reason, the Christmas King did not ring any
bells everything else.

Speaker 6 (02:52:44):
You know, I went through hypnosis to block memories like this.
But yeah, I think that I think that's the I
think that's pretty bad. I think Xanta clause was worse.
It was an that was balls and mahoney who uh
yeah it was Yeah, it was bald mahoney, that was
the guy who played San Xanta Clause. I'm pretty sure.

Speaker 2 (02:53:05):
Yeah, I'm trying to like the midnies stuff.

Speaker 6 (02:53:11):
Yeah, well he also had he also had Steve Austin
stunning Santa Claus.

Speaker 8 (02:53:15):
That's true.

Speaker 6 (02:53:16):
Yeah, but that got over, so I'm not really gonna Yeah,
I guess I can't really complain too much about that. Yeah, DNA, Yeah,
DNA is the winner for that sort of thing.

Speaker 4 (02:53:28):
Uh.

Speaker 6 (02:53:28):
I think Xanta Claus comes in second. Trying to think,
were there any other great Christmas storylines?

Speaker 2 (02:53:38):
Was there something with like Tory Wilson Don Marie, Oh,
they might have done something.

Speaker 6 (02:53:43):
Hold on a moment.

Speaker 21 (02:53:44):
Yeah, let's see, there might have been something relates like that.

Speaker 6 (02:53:49):
Okay, yeah, I I think you. I think you might
be right. Hold on a moment. Somebody has something up here.
Apparently there was a big Christmas match in nineteen seventy nine.
But uh, this doesn't sound like anything. That doesn't sound
like anything that will win a Ruffle Crap award, So
we'll move on here. Okay, let me Yeah, I'm gonna

(02:54:11):
have to use Google on this side, which is what
I do now that I'm getting older. Yeah, I can't.

Speaker 18 (02:54:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (02:54:16):
People people, uh, people think I have this wonderful photographic
memory and you know, I hate, I hate to ruin
it for them, but I'm just better at I might
just be better at using Google. Okay, here we go
and we'll they did the let's see, Yeah, they did
something at tribute for the troops I think with yeah, yeah, okay, yeah,

(02:54:38):
they're all dressed in Santa out that's yes. It was
a Santa's Little Helper match and they were all wearing
their Christmas bikinis. Yeah, well yeah, I think that's yeah,
Tory Wilson's Santa Sable and don Marie. Okay, there you go.

(02:55:01):
That that's up.

Speaker 2 (02:55:02):
There's also Sena jbl or jbl Is Santa.

Speaker 6 (02:55:06):
Oh yeah, jb LA Santa.

Speaker 2 (02:55:07):
Yeah, you know, I mean not terrible.

Speaker 6 (02:55:10):
Yeah, it was that. The Impact stuff was worse. I
mean there's definitely Yeah, but if you want to look
that up, the December twenty, two thousand and seven episode
of Impact, that is uh yeah, that is quite the
quite the show. Yes, yes, maybe maybe maybe Wave and
Bruce reviewed it, which would be which would be fantastic

(02:55:31):
if you could find that.

Speaker 2 (02:55:32):
Yeah, I'm gonna try to look it up. And then
maybe we'll get a flashback up on the site tomorrow
for impact.

Speaker 6 (02:55:38):
Okay, good times, Well, thank you very much, James.

Speaker 2 (02:55:42):
Was that all we had a mailbag?

Speaker 6 (02:55:44):
That's all we have in the mailbag.

Speaker 2 (02:55:46):
Very good?

Speaker 21 (02:55:47):
All right, Pat, Well, we talked a lot about.

Speaker 2 (02:55:49):
Vicky and uh punk and Sina and uh. I think
we cover pretty much everything that was important for the
TV last a couple of days. It's kind of felt
like a just kind of a couple of shit oh
before the before the new year.

Speaker 6 (02:56:02):
Here, So okay, we covered yep YEA per wrestling just
gives them gives.

Speaker 2 (02:56:08):
Twenty hours over seven seven day stretch or tb A
pay per views, So I think you're accurate in that, Pat, Okay,
all right, Saturday's always thanks for wating me in a
live cast. They have a great Christmas on Saturday, Yeah, James, Yeah, Yeah,
we'll hear from you again next Wednesday. So for Torch

(02:56:29):
commis pat video. This torch has just entered. James Cadwell
not and off.

Speaker 1 (02:56:50):
Invite you to email the show with feedback or questions
or comments. That email address is Wade Keller Podcast at
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You can follow us on Twitter at pw torch and
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