15 YRS AGO LIVECASTS: WWE PPV buyrate drops, TNA wrestlers upset with ECW emphasis, Samoa Joe, Goldust, Raven, Jim Ross, HOF

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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(01:06):
PW Torch and Speaker bring you the Wade Keller Pro
Wrestling podcast Today on the Way Keller Progressing podcast will
jump back fifteen years to two episodes from August early
August twenty ten. First up is the August fourth, twenty
ten episode, James Caldwell hosting with Pat McNeil to talk

(01:26):
with live callers about an awful nnxt angle the previous night,
this mojo situation in TNA, a hardcore justice TNA pay
per view, what to expect at the ECW themed pay
per view, and whether some wrestlers are disgruntled with ECW
emphasis Randy Savage and Bob Beckland as potential WWB Hall
of Fame candidates, Goldust versus Raven at this stage of
their careers, where Jim Ross fits into w and more.

(01:48):
In the previously VP exclusive after show, James and Patt
talked about t ANDNA eliminations and who was on the
cut list, and the McNeil mailbag with listener questions on
WWB cuts, the earnings report, young wrestler started to be
pushed in WWE and how that might affect TNA wrestlers
and more. Then the August fifth episode, I am joined
by Greg Parks. Then we talked about WWE's pay per

(02:10):
view financials, including a particular focus on the drop in
paper view by rates. We had some ideas on how
we might respond to those numbers. Launch throwing network. I
don't think we said that. Also Tena Production Values, NXT's
kissing content, Daniel Bryant possibly joining Team Sena, Hardcore justice thoughts,
and more. Some of that in the previously VIP exclusive
after show. So let's get to it again. These originally

(02:32):
live streamed on August fourth and fifth, twenty ten. Edit
is Today's Wade Keller Progressing Podcast fifteen years ago flashback
for Monday, August eleventh, twenty twenty five.

Speaker 2 (02:43):
You're listening to the PW George live cast. This is
pweorch Assistant editor James Caldwell posting today on Wednesday, August fourth.
That means it's Wednesday, and that means it's Pat McNeil
George columnists. Pat, how are you doing today?

Speaker 1 (02:57):
I'm fine?

Speaker 3 (02:58):
How are you people?

Speaker 1 (02:59):
Let's now James.

Speaker 3 (03:01):
James is on the road this week.

Speaker 2 (03:03):
Yes, it's another another road trip live cast. Actually now
and if you've been following the Twitter on Twitter dot com,
so p to me. Torche posted a few notes on
on the Twitter about being in Memphis this week, and
I haven't gone by Mid Soul Coliseum yet. I'm hoping
to get there while we're here in Memphis. But pretty

(03:23):
historic town. I recommend it for a quick vacation. Drove
up yesterday. Just got back from the Elvis Museum. Her
guy gets flann uh. Just got back from that before
the show. Fascinating, fascinating time here in Memphis.

Speaker 3 (03:37):
Pat, Well, I'm sure all your twits are there in
the chat room, having followed your your trip here from
all the way to Memphis. This this will be great.
I guess there's wrestling news today, although I haven't really
seen much of any.

Speaker 2 (03:52):
Yeah, it's kind of a flower news, they said. I've
been following all the news and posting what's come up.
I think kind of the news. The bigger news from
yesterday there was the story that you know, Samoa Joe
being sent home, suspended, whatever you want to call it. Well,
what's your reaction to that time? I mean, I mean
the story goes when I was told with what's also
out there that confirms a lot of the details that

(04:15):
after that match with Jeff Party a couple of weeks ago,
he stormed into the production truck and yelled at them
for doing the countdown, and I believe he specifically said
he did not want a countdown to give away the
finished that match with hardy. So what's your reaction to
what Joe did and what TNA deaned? Was I guess

(04:37):
a referringmand the punishment that we you want to call.
What's the reaction of the situation with Joe?

Speaker 3 (04:42):
I you know, I don't know who's the fault. Normally
you would think the wrestlers upset about something that happened
in the match or the countdown s going place. He
goes back, complains to the agents, and the agent, you know,
tries to get to the bottom of it. Evidently Joe
decided he needs to go out to the production truck
and talk. I don't know who's out there, uh Keith Mitchell,

(05:03):
is David Sahati still there, you know, and and chew
them up. I don't I mean, I don't know what
was said. I don't know how insubordinate it was, but
I would, you know, I don't understand. Uh, they seem
to be going to a lot of trouble to upset
certain people who have been with TNA for a while lately.

(05:24):
So I you know, I don't know that I would
have suspended Somemojo, but uh, you know, I mean, if uh,
you know, if Joe wants to leave there. There are
definitely people out there who are.

Speaker 2 (05:34):
Interested in having him, definitely, and I think it's you know,
I don't think it's an isolated incident. I mean, obviously,
I don't think Joe's ever done anything to this extent,
but he's expressed frustration with ways and books and and
promoted by TNA in the past, and that's been well documented.
And Christopher Daniels, I mean AJ styles the interview this

(05:54):
week with four big points of emphasis, noting t A
uh so, I mean, I'll there's a sense of frustration.
Especially this is the other The other aspect of it
is that ECW and it's getting a lot of emphasis
on TV right now that and a lot of the
TNA guys are sort of being pushed in beside. And
you know, TNA's explanation is, well, it's a short term thing.

(06:16):
It's not you know, it's not gonna last be on
a month or two months. But if you're a teena
russeller and you're sitting there saying, well, my segment doesn't
mean anything because of the way that the ecw angles
take it over, I'm not gonna be too happy. So
what do you make of the situation on where these
TEENA rustlers are in terms of we've been here for
a while, we tried to help build this company, and

(06:37):
yet it seems like every time something else comes along,
we'll push back to the back. What's your take on that, Pet, Well,
I mean.

Speaker 3 (06:44):
It's it's starting to sound like, you know, if Samoa
Joe had instead of going to the truck and yelling,
had had given an interview to you or Jason Powell
or Wade Keller and said pretty much exactly the same thing,
you would have been Okay. Yeah, That's that's one thing
that I'm taking out of it. I you know, I
don't think the ECW thing is is as temporary as

(07:07):
as everybody's making out to me. Of course, this thing
could you know, of course the ratings could flop this week,
and and the paper you could flop and uh, and
they could start ditching ECW people. But uh, I mean,
I'm curious as to why you would bring a faction
like this in and and not do and have them,
you know, sort of invade the way that started and

(07:28):
not do a bunch of TNA versus ECW matches out
of it. I mean assume, assuming you've already brought them
in in the first place, and you've gotten passed the
debate over whether you should or not.

Speaker 2 (07:38):
But yeah, I mean, I agree with that point that
if you're going to bring these guys in and then
have them interacting to TNA wrestlers, and if you're going
to be focusing on the ECW wrestlers, then you should
be focusing on the TNA guys as well and all
the emphasis to that brands and shine your own brand
as well. Why are you why are you gonna draw
attention to another brand and pretty much just show of

(08:00):
your own roster in the background that that doesn't I
don't get the logic behind that. You're trying to create this.
Oh it's a realistic okay, Okay, tell me, you gotta
make it realistic. It's gotta be real. According Dixie Carter, well,
no one's buying it because he and a is endorseeing
this pay per view. It's going to look I mean,
unless they completely revant the impact Zone and try to

(08:23):
make it into a replica of the the ECW Arena
or the Angersty Ballroom, and it's it's gonna look like
they just sort of shove e WU into the Impact Zone.
That's not gonna be real or whatever Dixie Carter's using
to advertising.

Speaker 3 (08:38):
Well, the thing that cracks me up is, you know
they came up with this idea and they sort of
threw together the idea of the Hardcore Justice pay per view.
Eric Bischoff says have been planning this since March, but
I don't believe him. You know, why why did you
need to do the Hardcore pay per view in August
when you know you had you a lot on this

(09:01):
and push back the actual issue to have you pay
review to this to September? You could have not only
got gotten all of these fews that you have been
pushing on TV per months, you know, you could have
finished them up at the after hard Justice pay per view.
You then, you know, if you if you book this
show in September, you could get the Hammerstein Hammerstein Ballroom
and and and do the pay review from there and

(09:23):
have an authentic extreme atmosphere and you know, and maybe
take a few weeks to build up some actual issues
between the East and w guys or something like that.

Speaker 2 (09:33):
And I would allow you to add two two solid
months to build up to Bound for Glory and not
have it be I mean, you have that sort of
that that pay per view break in September after your
Your Your Heart Justice pay per view, and then you
can have two months to build up your t Anda
storylines to Bound for Glory, and that would create a
more compelling pay per view. Instead, it's well, we're gonna

(09:55):
hit the reset button after this, after this, this ecw angle,
whether it's long term or short term thing, regardless, they
happened to reset button because of how little emphasis they
placed on their own Robster in the last month. And
it's amazing, really, you.

Speaker 3 (10:10):
Know, it's it's it's not amazing if you've just followed
these guys for a while, I mean you, I mean,
it's just hard to get surprised by what they do anymore.
But uh yeah, I mean for for a company that
keeps saying things, yeah, like well Vance Russo has a
has a six month has the next four to six
months planned out? It's sure, yeah, And they've always said

(10:31):
for for years, well we have you, we have the
next several months of this planned out. It sure seems
like their plans aren't important enough that they can't drop
everything if a better idea comes along or what they
there seem to be a better idea.

Speaker 2 (10:44):
Yeah, yeah, I mean whenever Christoff said, I always have
this plan for you know, since March or so. If
you go back with the TV, there's nothing there that
points to any reunion pay per views.

Speaker 3 (10:58):
You know, you can tell you that. But in March, Gee,
I thought their plan was to run every you know,
to run Impact every Monday night for the next ten months.

Speaker 2 (11:06):
You know that's true. There's no.

Speaker 3 (11:11):
Yeah, all right, and then we should maybe we should
take some college James.

Speaker 4 (11:14):
It's gonna coming up.

Speaker 2 (11:16):
Yeah, we've got a good batch of callers already and old.
We're gonna go ahead and give out the number if
you want to join the Life Gas today six four, six, seven,
two one nine eight two eight. We talked a little
bit ta to start the show. Of course, we'll talk
raw n XT last night with I haven't seen an
XT last night until it didn't have.

Speaker 3 (11:34):
You didn't miss you didn't miss a whole lot exactly.
But no, actually, actually, you know what, I'm gonna take
that back. You missed, Uh I missed something you missed
you missed the kissing contest.

Speaker 2 (11:45):
Yes, that's gonna count for something, right, yeah.

Speaker 3 (11:49):
Yeah, you know you know when when T and A
does something goofy. You can always rationalize it by saying, well,
they they don't understand. But when WWE does something this stupid,
you just you just because I'm wondering who the target
audience was for that crap. It wasn't me, and I'm.

Speaker 2 (12:06):
A businessman as an audience one.

Speaker 3 (12:09):
Really dun sick man wanted to see all the wrestlers kiss.
Uh yeah, kiss some short dumpy one. Okay, yep, sure.

Speaker 2 (12:17):
That's that's like conclusion. So well, it was definitely you know,
he likes to get in his weird. He has that weird,
very weird since the amer and apparently this was his
way of getting his kicks backstage. But great, that's very
well done.

Speaker 5 (12:34):
That.

Speaker 2 (12:35):
Yes, uh so we'll talk at NXC last night and
summersin coming up and also a big tag match. I're all,
I'm going to bring those subjects up during the live gas.
Like I said, TNA as well, let's go ahead and
grab our first phone caller today. Let's go to the
ninety three one area code nine three one. Welcome to
the show. Please think you know where you're from.

Speaker 4 (12:55):
Hey, guys, see him from Tennessee.

Speaker 2 (12:57):
I mean you're staying He and glad, here's what I am.
You you are you're about.

Speaker 4 (13:01):
Four hours a lay from me. I haven't called it
a while. I had two real quick questions sure. The
first was, where do you see the seven on seven
tag match for SummerSlam going? Now that they're advertising seven
on five? Who do you think would fill in the
extra spots?

Speaker 6 (13:20):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (13:21):
What's your take on what they do with the with
that match on next Week's all?

Speaker 3 (13:26):
Well, I'm guessing that they're just paying attention to detail
and that something will happen next week during that tag
match where where the next US attacks everybody and edgend
Jericho went back in. That's just a guess. So I
think that they're just that they're sort of you know,
I think that they are just actually, you know, paying
attention to what they're doing week to week, which is

(13:47):
just so they did a storyline where Edgend Jericho quit
and now you know, and now this coming Monday, the
last thing for the paper beer they will have, they'll
have the WWE team get back together, or they'll presumably
find two other guys to fill in. But I'm thinking
I'm thinking something that happens during the tag match where
the guys all banned together.

Speaker 2 (14:08):
Yeah, and that's gonna center around Brett Hart. You know
that that tag match was seen in Hartigan's Edge and Jericho.
I think that's agree it happened. You know, that's the
direction they're going with, And last couple of weeks have
been but we've got to make it seem like next is,
you know, with their lack of experience if you look
at on a paper, were talking about this before. Their
lack of experience, no championship matches, no pay per view matches,

(14:30):
no pay review appearances other than run ins. You've got
to make it seem like this is an intriguing matchup,
and I think the last two weeks have been very
strong in that regard on making this seem like a
matchup that's not just a lopside and sort of the
All Stars are gonna crush the rookies and there's no
there's no intrigue. So the last two weeks have been
about building that intrigue and maybe on that last show,

(14:51):
you want to kind of rally those troops together and
you want to make it seem like, Okay, now they're
ready to go kick some butted SummerSlam and then that's
gonna rally that audience. So I you know, I agree
with Pat. I think the answer is that they find
a way to reincorporate Edge and Jericho into that team,
and that'll and they'll set it up with a seven
on seven.

Speaker 1 (15:12):
You can support us on Patreon and get these shows
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(15:34):
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Speaker 2 (15:43):
Pat If they don't go that route, who are two
guys you see filling in for that team? Or do
you think they they stick with the seven on five
matchup at Summerslams.

Speaker 3 (15:54):
I suppose they could put the the Heart Dynasty in there,
even though they they didn't have to donors to get
beaten up by Nexus already, But you know there's a
motive there you know, I don't know what you'd do
with edgend Jericho unless you do do something where they
end up fighting each other on the pay per view.
But I you know, I don't think you need much
of an undercard to at this point because you've built

(16:15):
how you built the three main matches. Maybe they'd take
a couple of guys from SmackDown, although you know Smackdowns
are not exactly looking like the most lively place these days.

Speaker 2 (16:27):
No, it's not. It's it's fine on the radar, but
SmackDown's probably gonna fill that undercard. Uh. You know, like
you said that edge in Jericho. If they're not in
that match, where do they do? You know, you're really
want to give away them in a singles match with
you know there's there's without even announcing it until the
week before the pay per view. I would be against that.

(16:49):
I'll say against leaving them all go ahead lest they.

Speaker 3 (16:52):
Tried giving them away in a singles match at WrestleMania
and you know, it works so well that everybody completely
forgot about it until I just said it.

Speaker 2 (16:59):
So that's that's true. It was the expectation going back.

Speaker 3 (17:04):
To Ian, what was your second question.

Speaker 2 (17:06):
Yeah, go for you.

Speaker 4 (17:08):
Well, my my second question was, you know, apparently Dicky
Carter won't listen to criticism from fans, and with all
these risks of speaking out against how bad the product
is in the direction they're hitting it, at what point
do you think she's gonna listen to any criticism that bom.

Speaker 3 (17:29):
I think she would listen to criticism from her father
because her father controls the money and about and literally
that's about it.

Speaker 2 (17:38):
Yeah, that's and that's an honest answer.

Speaker 3 (17:41):
Or you know, or you know what, or if Spike
TV tells her you need to make some changes or
we're gonna cut off your uh or we're gonna drop
your show and cut off your money supply, I think
she's listening to them. That's about it.

Speaker 2 (17:51):
Yeah, yeah, it's it's who the people control the money.
Because she's shown that she'll listen to critics to a
certain degree if it fits her, if it fits what
she's already planned, if it doesn't fit what she's already planned,
it doesn't fit I mean, if it doesn't fit Vince
Risso is head of creative and I'm not gonna listen
to anything else. It's you know, it's whoever controls the

(18:15):
money is who she's gonna listen to. And with those
demographic numbers on impact the last you know, eight or
nine months I'm sorry, eight or nine weeks where they're
at a point seventy five since return to Thursday Night,
that's a that's well below what they what they should
be doing. They should be at a one point zero
in that Keys Mail eighteen to forty nine demographic. They're
one point seventy five. Spike's not gonna put up with that.

(18:38):
I mean, Spike's struggling right now. They're trying to find
new programming besides UFC, and TNA is not delivering after
the money in that experiment. So TNA has got to
find a way to shift up or you know, how
much more room or time to Spike gives TNA. That
that remains to be seen. I mean, there's no indications
of them doing anything to cut TNA, but that performance

(19:00):
is certainly not just being ignored by Spike TV. That
performance is dragging down. You know, Spikes male demographic rating,
that's how they sell their network, that's how they sell
advertising to advertisers. Is appealing to that male demographic and
TNA is not hitting their targets right now, So this
Spike comes to Dixie and says, we need changes. You

(19:21):
got to find something. Then that might be when she
makes a change of any kind. Until then, though that
it's gonna say the way it is. That's just the
way the pattern of this company's had in any other
question or comments.

Speaker 4 (19:35):
Now, that's that's pretty much it. I kind of quit
watching T and A when I started doing this whole
ECW invation angle. It just bores me uninteresting. But if
you could lead me on, Hold, have you guys had
a good week?

Speaker 1 (19:49):
Sure? Right?

Speaker 2 (19:50):
Well, yeah, k what is your overell impression of sort
of reincorporating the ECW guys into TNA in terms of
who it's appealing to? Is it appealing to the right people?
Is it appeal to anyone? Is there a large contingency
of ECW fans out there we're gonna order this pay
per view?

Speaker 1 (20:10):
Or have they.

Speaker 2 (20:10):
Created enough interest amongst you know, people who weren't around
during ECW to get them to order the pay per view?
Is there an audience out there?

Speaker 1 (20:18):
Do you think that?

Speaker 2 (20:20):
Well?

Speaker 3 (20:21):
There was a whole big discussion that Wade and Jason
had yesterday on Live cast about it. When where Jason
pointed out that their ratings game this past week came
from adding more twelve to seventeen.

Speaker 1 (20:31):
Year olds watching.

Speaker 3 (20:32):
So I mean, I if that's if that's the uh,
that's your increase, then you're definitely talking about people who
probably didn't watch the old ECW unless it's on tape
or or class it's on demand or what or DVD
or what have you. So yeah, I guess that's what
they're coming on. But then again, they presented this show
as you know, well, there's this pay review on Sunday

(20:54):
with all the ex s Fummer and Extreme guys, and
then you come back next Thursday and we'll give you
a free pay per view quality lineup and uh and
and I have the East guys show up there too,
So you know, I mean they're not you know, they
seem more interested in getting people to tune into Impact
over the next two weeks than they do in selling

(21:15):
this reunion pay per view. And I guess them figuring, well,
if the increase is great, if not, you know, while
we tried.

Speaker 2 (21:22):
Something, and I think the problem is that they don't
have that video. They don't have access to the video
to sell, uh, you know, sort of newer fans on
the the e CW experience the Original East. I mean
when they're trotting out Foley and Dreamer and Raven and
Rhino and Richards and have them all standing in the

(21:42):
ring and you're trying to tell the audience, hey, you
got to order this pay per view, this is you're
gonna see, and the guys who're just kind of standing
there in the ring. I mean, if you're a newer
fan who's never seen much or maybe heard a little
without ECW, you're gonna say, why am I gonna a
pay review for this?

Speaker 7 (21:56):
You know?

Speaker 3 (21:58):
I mean, yeah, the amazing thing is James. I think
it was Shane Douglas and Jeremy Borash and a few
other people who put together that hardcore homecoming series. And
you know that does contain more recent footage of all
these guys, you know, shot pretty professionally in the in
the old ECW arena, and I'm just amazed that they
haven't tried that out yet. And I can't imagine that

(22:21):
that you know that that whoever owns that footage is
holding them up for a ton of money.

Speaker 2 (22:26):
I think it's win. It's a big vision project. So
I wonder Well, Okay, the Big Vision didn't look up
for that. I believe that's crong.

Speaker 3 (22:36):
No Big the Big Vision distributed it. But uh, I don't,
I don't know that's it's it's yeah, Big Vision. Last
I heard was hurting for money. So again I can't
figure out, you know, yeah anyway.

Speaker 2 (22:50):
Yeah, yeah, And that's they needed that footage and without that,
it's hard to sell the new audience on that. And
I just don't know that there's this large contingency of origin,
know ECW fans so out there, they aren't gonna just
kind of roll their eyes at TNA's attempted to redo this.

Speaker 3 (23:06):
So oh well, you know, you know what a couple
of years ago, actually four or five years ago, herb
when Hermie Salva was doing the TNA house shows, they
did a couple of the old ecwrn and they had
the Dudleys and you know and whatever whatever ECW guys
were in that that week. So I mean, you could
use some of that. I mean, they have they have
footage that just they just seem to be doing a

(23:26):
lousy job of incorporating it. They have footage of standman
in TNA, I mean from back in the Thursday Night
Days and Raven and Saboo and all of them. I've
guarantee you were looked a lot better than they do now.

Speaker 2 (23:39):
Mm hmm, that is true. Yeah, the Asian process had
set in for a lot of these guys. But well,
let's hope down there, I mean, for TNA's sake, let's
hope down on Thursday they roll out some footage that
they've got to have something. Uh, you give this audience
and you know Tommy Dreamer and Abyss and a hardcore
garbage match. No, that's like an cut it So.

Speaker 3 (24:02):
Let's uh yeah, can we go to another call and
get away from House stupid too?

Speaker 2 (24:05):
And as I was just gonna give out the number
again if you want to join us on the live
cast six four, six seven nine eight two eight. Let's
go in and grab our next phone caller. This is
from the two seven area code. Two seven. Oh, welcome
to the show. Please stay. I know where you're from.

Speaker 8 (24:24):
Hey, this is David from Kentucky and Hey, David put
forth Thy David. That's pretty good coincidence. Hey, how you doing.
It's a good coincidence that you're down in Memphis. This
is actually a question about Memphis wrestling. So if you
don't know the answer, Pat and I can chat while
you go personally research it.

Speaker 9 (24:45):
But h no, I I growing up.

Speaker 8 (24:48):
I grew up in the mid to late eighties in
in Mensister, the wrestling scene there and a lot of
good memories and guys. I've purchased a lot of DVD's
from different companies in the area, and I stand the
lights whose tape libraries, and they're kind of complicated that
I was wondering if if you guys had hurt any

(25:09):
plans by w w E to maybe repackaged with the DVD,
could they get the right similar to maybe the A
W A or the word classes if they've recently released it.

Speaker 3 (25:23):
Well, no, no, I haven't, Frankly, and you know it's
a complicated issue. But I think that if they're interested
me Bencentman obviously knows how to get in touch with
Jerry Lawler and Jerry Jarrett, and I've done it from them.
I'd have to think of who else would would have
rights to the footage after I mean Jenny, I mean
Jimmy hard is still on friendly terms and he did

(25:44):
a lot with UH, did a lot with with the
old Memphis crew. So I mean, I guess it depends
on what's out there and what they can sort of
put together. But I'm like you, I've seen lots of
old yeah takes and DVDs that's never been clear as
to who owns the rights to what, and and that
whole issue of of when Lawlor sold the us w
A and they and they the people who bought up

(26:07):
suit them for fraud. I think that also complicated the
issue of who owns what.

Speaker 2 (26:13):
Yeah, that's the biggest issue with the Memphis tapes has
always been who owns what tapes? The quality of those tapes.
I mean, there's there's some really bad, poor quality tapes
out there that people have tried to sell on DVDs,
So that that's it's it's such a it's such a
confuciing issue, like Pat said, on who owns that and

(26:34):
who owns that material? And perhaps one day, probably when
when WW gets down to the twenty four to seven network,
they might take a closer look at trying to figure
out how to acquire at least some of that library
and be able to put that on TV. But yeah,
it's a complicated matter, David, It's it's really is. But

(26:54):
did you have any other question or follow up.

Speaker 8 (26:57):
Well, that's kind of yeah, that's kind of what A
found in my research trying to figure out who owns
the rights what and what can be what kind of
just look forward to having having put out there released.
But there's there was also a television show on a
local station that that aired weekly that that went along
with some of the old fights at the coliseum. Of
course they videokay called of the flights at the Coliseum

(27:19):
and it's you know, actually it's pretty complicated that. Yeah,
I heard you mentioned you hadn't had a chance to
go to the coliseum yet that you want to do.

Speaker 2 (27:28):
Yeah, I was. I've actually walked by FedEx Forum and
walked by the minor league baseball team. I haven't been
Miss South yet, but I hit Elvis, so I have
to go hit Miss Miss South.

Speaker 8 (27:40):
Yeah, yeah, I guess that's kind of a musk. But uh,
I do recommend go down to and get some barbecue
from Rondez.

Speaker 2 (27:50):
Actually I went down went down Gill Street yesterday and
got some got some barbecue there. So turn me into
like a tourist a tourist podcast. It's I mean, Memphis
is fascinating for wrestling history, and all kinds of different history.
So I went down Belle Street last night check that out.
I went to Sun Records as well, so not to

(28:11):
bore everyone with the Memphis Tourist Guide, but it's fascinating
and I've never been to Memphis before. We came up
here to see Elvis stuff, so I recommend him. It's
just an amazing city.

Speaker 3 (28:21):
So, Okay, anybody who's in the Memphis area, all right, Pat,
go ahead, what we're gonna say. Okay, anybody who was
listening to anybody who's in the thank you guys. Anybody
who is listening in the Memphis area and has ahold
Continental footage, please give James Caldwell a call. Maybe we
can get this all this subtle here tonight.

Speaker 2 (28:43):
There you go, or drop me an email one way
or the other. I'm here in town. If we want
to have a we want to hash it out and
you need a third party here.

Speaker 3 (28:51):
I am so.

Speaker 10 (28:55):
Need an extra dose of positivity in your wrestling podcasts.
Will come join me. I'll over in the Progress Paradise
at Pterbo Torch VIP as we mask on the bright
side of wrestling and focus on some of the great
matches and shows from around the world, be it the US, Japan,
Europe or Mexico. There's always a place for wrestlings past

(29:16):
in the Paradise too, and we've done fun historical shows
such as the We Love Liger series celebrating the glorious
career of Jusian Thunderliger and our eye was there when
shows where our guests will join me to talk about
a classic bout that they were in attendance for. We
love variety and you can expect lots of it at
the Progress Paradise. Detailed PWO Torch VIP subscription information and

(29:39):
a list of all the VIP benefits is available at
pterwrew torch vip info dot com. And yes, all VIP
podcasts are compatible with popular podcast apps on iPhone and
Android devices, or you can stream them directly from our
ad free VIP mobile site. See you in the Paradise.

Speaker 2 (30:00):
They've been anything else for today.

Speaker 8 (30:03):
But you guys just want to pool your money and
buy the rents ourselves?

Speaker 11 (30:07):
Yeah, might as well.

Speaker 2 (30:09):
I don't I don't know, I don't know the asking
price is, but uh, we'll look. Maybe we'd yeah, exactly
buy it and sell Torch v IP membership, which we've
been right into a blog Pat for the Torch BIPs.

Speaker 3 (30:20):
Good we have these.

Speaker 2 (30:22):
The newsletter, The Torch Newsletter was just published last night.
Wake Keller posted that online with a ton of content
ww T and a columns A new promotional startup company.
Greg Parks wrote on that, you know, it's kind of
segued right into like three different things here, but Pats
this new startup company, uh, sort of the will Pond

(30:44):
family that owns the Mets, they're they're sort of involved
in this. What's your take on this? Because I've been
asking around, especially in TEENA, it is a topic of
this cushion in TNA. Some people think it's, you know,
one of those lot of talk no actions. Some people
think in some to be taken seriously. What's your impaction
of what's out there on this new group?

Speaker 3 (31:05):
Well, the more I hear about it, the more I
get flashbacks to Joe Pedestino and Global Wrestling and the
Nigerian connection. I you know, I don't know if there's
any actual money behind this, and and I don't know
if there's much of any thought that's gone into this
other than you know, well, let's sign a bunch of
wrestlers and and and and get ready for it. You know,

(31:26):
I get like like wake Killer I said, and like
you said, I get concerned when I hear things that
these guys are putting out false information, you know, to
to to stop their competitors. What competitors, but there aren't
you know, that's that's just uh, if you're worried about
other groups on the Florida indyc you know, you might
want to come up with something else to worry about.

(31:48):
And uh, I mean I haven't heard anything about the
you know, the first show, or or what sort of
TV they're planning, or whether they're planning TV, or or
even who the investors are. So you know, until until
you see some thing, probably best just to assume that
they probably best not to worry that right then.

Speaker 2 (32:07):
That's you know, until there's actually something tangible. I mean,
I just the impression that I that I have is
that there's not there's not much to it yet. And
perhaps that's by designs and to make some sort of
big splash and you know a couple of months or
or next year or something. But I mean, these these

(32:29):
pop up so often. I mean, you know this just
as well as anyone about companies that historically just kind
of pop up and then they talk big and they
run a show and twenty people show up and the
promoter skips down. I mean, I'm not saying that's what
this promotion is gonna come down to. If there is
big money and then that's not gonna be an issue.
But a lot of times you get here with a

(32:50):
lot of talk, the promoters that show up and they disappear,
they're just a flame out. But so you know, it's
one of those things where there's just not enough information
out there to decide this is a reasonable promotion that
can take away some of the t any talent or
to utilize some of the underutilized intended talent to form
a strong promotion. I just I just don't get an

(33:12):
indication that's where they are right now.

Speaker 3 (33:14):
However, I would like to point out that if you
do have fifty million dollars to invest in, and you
do want to create a national wrestling promotion, all you
have to do is make a phone call there six
four six seven to one nine eight, and uh, Jase
James and I will take all your information and we'll
be happy to give you advice on how to spend
your gobs and gobs of mind.

Speaker 2 (33:34):
Well along, that was a great plug along. Let's go
it in out. Let's grab another phone call and I
fat I'm gonna get you to the Live event center.
We'll get the events coming up the next week or so.
Let's go where we wanna go. I'm gonna go to
the two one nine area code two one nine. Welcome
to the show. Please say to name it where you're from.

Speaker 12 (33:54):
Hi, that's a shame from Indiana.

Speaker 2 (33:56):
Hey, Shane, what do you have for a se question?

Speaker 3 (34:00):
Question?

Speaker 13 (34:00):
Hi?

Speaker 1 (34:00):
Question for you?

Speaker 14 (34:01):
Bet you have a legal background, right, yeah, But what's
your whole take?

Speaker 12 (34:07):
Okay, what's your whole take on this whole U T
and a E. C.

Speaker 5 (34:11):
W angle.

Speaker 12 (34:11):
Do you think the WWE has a case against them
and that they do? Do you think they would take action?

Speaker 3 (34:17):
I think that they They probably do at this point,
just because of several things that have happened. But I
think that the wb front office is too busy laughing
themselves silly about this idea to worry about it. Oliver,
I've not only got the possibility that that, you know,
maybe on Friday afternoon at four point thirty, they go
in and file a suit against these guys, or they

(34:38):
or after the paper views over them, they then they
file a suit, you know, or something like that. I mean,
they they can, they can cause TNA a lot of trouble.
But you know, the question is why would you bother?

Speaker 2 (34:50):
Yeah, And I think that their their best method for
addressing it was unwrong. When they show the ECW footage
they rode for Chainus and gold Nets having their program
back in ECW. You know, they're reminded, you know, for
fans that are thinking, oh wwe must be you know,
for fans, let's say, fans who aren't informed, sort of
casual viewers of both WW and TNA, they might be thinking,

(35:12):
oh w, A must be endorsing this, this ECW pay
per view that TNA is putting on.

Speaker 1 (35:18):
And I think.

Speaker 2 (35:19):
Ww's answer was sort of, well, let's remind viewers that
we own need CW or what you know, sort of
the W brand. And just you know, I can very
well see, like past said, I can see them sort
of making some sort of gesture legally on Friday or
on Tomorrow or Saturday or Sunday, it's you know, seven
to fifty nine PM. But I'm obviously court woodn't be open.

(35:41):
But the point isn't in Probably not. Yeah, that's OK.
But I don't see W making many ways with this.
I just I think one of the big themes this
year is that WW does not see TNA on the radar.
They didn't sell that much for TNA on Monday Nights. Historically,
they never really acknowledged TNA even exists, so I don't

(36:05):
know why they would start now, Hey, did give me
there any other question or follow up?

Speaker 12 (36:12):
Yeah, well that's kind of how it wasn't the eighties?

Speaker 1 (36:14):
It wasn't it.

Speaker 12 (36:14):
They didn't acknowledge.

Speaker 8 (36:16):
The w c W or n w A until you know,
the Monday.

Speaker 15 (36:20):
Night was.

Speaker 2 (36:26):
Yeah, did did you have a do? Is there a
question on now? Or you're just just bringing that up?

Speaker 8 (36:31):
No, I was just bringing that up.

Speaker 2 (36:33):
Yeah, I have one more question.

Speaker 5 (36:38):
Did they have a video?

Speaker 12 (36:40):
I think was on WW dot com the Macho Man.
He signed some kind of a deal with a toy company.

Speaker 2 (36:46):
Yeah, this is the first step.

Speaker 16 (36:51):
Between I think it could be.

Speaker 3 (36:54):
But it just for a w W A sanctioned action figure,
so that you know, so that the Mantra Man can
make a little money and that we can.

Speaker 2 (37:00):
Make a little money.

Speaker 3 (37:02):
I'm sure I know that they have it in the
back of their mind that you know, they have a
WrestleMania coming up and they don't have what they consider
to be a big star yet that they can induct,
and I mean Savage. I mean Savage. Although he's below
Ultimate Warrior on the list for some reason, I mean,
he's still a possibility.

Speaker 2 (37:22):
Yeah, And that's what we've talked about this before, on
the lack of sort of main event level Hall of
Famers that that de B can bring in. So you know,
to me, it's sort of let's start with the merchandising
deal and sort of re establish a relationship with Savage
via Mattel, and it will see where it carries on
and see where it plays out. It could be this

(37:43):
year's Hall of Fame, with the next year depends on
whether Savage and w W kind of come together and
whatever hatchet needs to be buried, whatever hatchet exists, then
you know, we very well can see Savage in the
Hall of Fame this year next year.

Speaker 3 (37:58):
Although you know the fact that he's below Ultimate Warrior
on the list of people they want to deal with,
that's uh, that's a sign that maybe not everything's forgiven.

Speaker 2 (38:08):
That's true, But I mean w b has worked with
sort of quote unquote unforgivable as before. It's even something
like you know, well right hard approached WD. But you
know there's that there's that five it's like a five
person list of people that w W will never work
with again. And Savage and Warrior always seemed to be

(38:29):
on that list, but doesn't He kind of extended invite
to Warrior last year he turned that down, So you know,
draft Savage gets scratched in the list with this Mattel
thing being the first side of that. And and I
could I could see Savage being involved in the Hall
of Fame coming up, maybe not this year, but perhaps
next year.

Speaker 6 (38:50):
Anything else.

Speaker 12 (38:51):
Fortunately, he certainly, he certainly belongs in the Hall of
Fame after his his career. Yeah, he does one more
questions and then I'll let you go. Bob Beckland, he
was a champion for what six years and he's never.

Speaker 8 (39:07):
Been in the Hall of Fame.

Speaker 12 (39:08):
Is there some kind of an issue between Backlan and
the w W.

Speaker 3 (39:12):
I don't you know, good Zuckman has never been a
Bob Backland fan. I mean they made him a champion
back in nineteen ninety four. I think that maybe in
a few years when they and of course back when
is completely out of his mind. But I think in
a few years, when the memory of Bob Backlan and
TNA has has died down, and and you know, maybe
they get the right medicaid, get get back on the

(39:34):
right medications, that they'll do it.

Speaker 2 (39:37):
And and Brian Hoops kind of brought this up in
last weeks on live cast we last Friday these before
on back when turns regularly has turned down. Hall of
Fame invites not just Doug to v but the pro
Rusting Hall of Fame and other resting related Hall of Fames,
amateur Rustling Hall of Fame. So he's, uh, like he said,

(39:57):
he's sort of out there and he kind of makes
decisions that are consistent with a lot of other people
in that same position. But I'm sure, yeah, yeah, I mean,
you know he's bound to get into the Hall of
Fame when you know it's at some point it's gonna happen.
Just it's a matter of said that maybe it is

(40:19):
perhaps the right medication the right day.

Speaker 3 (40:22):
Maybe maybe they'll maybe they will, maybe they're willing to
wait until he dies and abduct him posthumously, like they're
gonna do.

Speaker 2 (40:27):
With Yeah, that's kind of what popped in my head
as well. Yeah, thanks for the call, Shane. A good
discussion is a good question. Let's go ahead and get
you to the y event Center. What do we have
coming up for u ww tn A and Ring Wan
and Dragon Gade and any other independent promotions out there?

Speaker 3 (40:47):
All right, Deep breath time Tomorrow night WWE Superstars on
WGG in America. Obviously a huge show planned. Your main
event is Evan Bourne ticking on Zack Ryder, which I
think many people are on it you might enjoy. And
the non title contest between Layla and Tiffany the the

(41:07):
SmackDown Divas. Then of course we go right to tena
Impact on Spike TV main event Rob Van Dam and
Tommy Dreamer versus Abyss and Raven. Of course this is
happening on Free television and also on the show. The
machine Guns and the Most of the machine Guns and
Beer Money continue their best of five over the tag
team titles. Beer Money ahead two matches to one. Match

(41:29):
Number four though is an ultimate X match, so we'll
have to see how that goes. Friday Night SmackDown on
My network Television. Well, Kope Kingson will be defending the
Intercontinental title against Dolph Ziggler and a main event it
will be a Raymastereo taking on Drew McIntyre. Yeah, all right,
ww House shows Tomorrow night. SmackDown is an Auckland, New Jersey.

(41:54):
I think the no Auckland, New Zealand. Excuse me, there's
the New Jersey whatever, But I wrote this down wrong.

Speaker 15 (42:04):
I'm sorry.

Speaker 3 (42:05):
With all of all of your with all of your
favorite SmackDown superstars. Raw is in California this weekend on Saturday.
They will be in San Diego on Sunday at Sandberg.
You know, the main event for both shows is Shamous
versus Randy Orton. TNA on Sunday Night presents Hardcore Justice
on pay per view. The two matches, no matches has

(42:27):
actually been announced, by the way, We've only heard rumors
of them that the two matches that were pretty sure
are gonna happen. Rob Van Dam will take on Jerry
Lynn in a non title match. Remember Jerry Lynn fired
some years ago by TNA because he wasn't interesting enough
to be on their TV show. Is now Haveline a.

Speaker 7 (42:45):
Pay per view.

Speaker 3 (42:46):
Also, Tommy Drimmer versus Raven with special guest jefferee Nick
Foley in the year twenty ten. Really ye okay? Then
on Monday night, ww RAW comes to us live from
secondment of California. Your schedule main event John Cena and
Brett Hart taking on Edge and Christ Jericho. Then the
following night w w NXT from San Jose. Yes, somebody

(43:08):
will be eliminated. Will just be the last stand of
Percy Watson or Lucky Cannon or well, whoever the hell
else is on the show. We'll find out on Tuesday night. Then,
of course, a week from tomorrow TNA's whole an impact
two hour pay per view quality show with lots of
commercials and shorter matches. Your main event is Rab van

(43:31):
Dam versus a Biff in a nail filled board on
a pole match with special referee Eric Bischoff if necessary.
The machine guns, Mercy, machine guns and beer money will
go to a fifth and final match with some stipulation.
I think maybe their stipulation should be they have an
actual normal match, but we'll see mad of course. Now

(43:52):
I guess, okay, how about a two ou of three
falls match.

Speaker 2 (43:56):
There you go, We'll make it a make it a
best of seven or the no.

Speaker 15 (44:00):
No, No, No they won't do that.

Speaker 3 (44:01):
That makes too much sense. I guess we'll put them
on a scaffold or something. Anyway. Curd Inger versus aj
Styles will also be on this show, plus many others.
May Lander's doing television tape things August twentieth and August
twenty first in Philadelphia with all of their major players
on the show. The main event for the Richmond, Virginia
show on August twenty seventh has been announced Tyler Black
versus d He Edwards and a champion versus champion non

(44:24):
title match. Evolved five will take place on Saturday, September
open Pewter Whole Ralway, New Jersey. The main event will
be Brian Damison taking on MILLINOI Sawa in a in
what should be a very interesting match, and the on
the seven an event it will be Mercedes Martinez against
Awesome Khn or Amazing Kong or whatever the hell you

(44:45):
want to call it, and that will pretty much do
it for the Live Event Center.

Speaker 2 (44:50):
Very good, Pat good, some good shows coming up, including
some very interesting shows from T and A. As Pat
identified there You're let's stand and George assistant at James
Caldwell and George called us Pat McNeil and the Peter
by Torch Live cast. You want to jump on the
phones in the last twenty minutes or so of the show,
i'mber to call it six four six, seven, two one

(45:12):
nine eight too eight. Let's go ahead and grab our
next caller. Let's go to the two one five Aeron
Cook two one five. Welcome to the show. Please stay
your em where you're from. Hey, this is Eric until up. Dude,
Hey Eric, what do you say?

Speaker 16 (45:25):
Eric?

Speaker 2 (45:26):
Hey? How you going?

Speaker 9 (45:28):
I'll question today is a character and I wanted to
know what the Goldens had to do at this point
to at least try and like, you know, match his
brother on the car. And two I wanted to know
what the Braven have to do because me ran out
last week. I reported tear in my eye watching one
into the ring all like balding and it just it.

Speaker 2 (45:49):
It was a bad side.

Speaker 9 (45:50):
So I just wanted to know.

Speaker 1 (45:51):
What's your opinion was on that.

Speaker 3 (45:53):
Go ahead? Okay, Uh, gold Dust is unless something really
bad hoping happens to Cody Rhoades. Gold is not going
to be an equal spot on the card with him.
He is a veteran. He is being used to help,
you know, to work with the young wrestlers and help
them put together better matches. And and because his character
is at least, you know, qusite interesting, but they have

(46:15):
no serious plans to get gold Dust back.

Speaker 4 (46:18):
In the touture.

Speaker 3 (46:19):
Goldust is not gonna be feuding with shame, Sir John Cena,
at least I don't think so. Your other question was Raven, Well,
I know you know Raven as you know I went
through you know, he had to take he did a
lot of he had a lot of wellness problems earlier

(46:40):
in his career. And from what I understand, and somebody
can correct me if I'm wrong, a lot of that
triggered a thyroid problem which he which he had to
work with and take medication on. And the thyroid problem
has helped cause him to gain weight and losing his hair. Well,
I can attest that's something that happens when you grow older,
so in additional to gaining weight sometimes, So I mean,

(47:06):
you know Raybe is going to look like that. It's
it's uh, but I you know, it's kind of hard.
I guess to do a to do a T and
a you know, a ECW reunion pay for view without
them because you know, so many guys who are part
of ECW are no longer with us.

Speaker 1 (47:23):
Right, we're about to go to a commercial break. Why
listen to commercial breaks when you can go vi ip
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(47:45):
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Speaker 2 (47:59):
Know, it's a motivate factor as well. I mean, I'm
glad Eric brought up gold Dust and Raven in the
same conversation. Gold Dust, I mean his weight ballooned in
TNA and he went to w B and he cut
his weight. Is put on some of the better matches
of his career in the last two years, especially when
he was on ECW. I mean not his career, but
in the last ten years when he was on ECW,

(48:22):
and Raven says, well, I'm gonna get paid no matter
how I show up for this East where you need
to pay for you because TNA is gonna pay me.
So why should I go through the effort of trying
to get into shape? And you know, you look at
the ring when Hulkogan was in the ring with those
ECW guys on Thursday show, they're all, you know, bulging
through their shirts. No one's motivated to get into shape.

(48:43):
It's just it's an easy payday. You're gonna get paid
no matter what. So you know, in part of that, too,
is the aging process. The metallicalism slows down. Well, and
it's like I said, Pat catches up to you. You know,
it's it is what it is. This is what this
is what TNA is throwing out there because it's five
years after after the One night stand, and it's you know,

(49:05):
ten years after he shut down. It's about twelve or
thirteen years since he was in its prime.

Speaker 3 (49:11):
I'm also I'm also told that Raven's not the only
former ECW guy you're gonna have difficulty recognizing on Sunday.
I'll just leave it at that.

Speaker 2 (49:21):
Let's see what's comeing of here? The talent with Pat
don't get you a yay or nay on each one.

Speaker 3 (49:25):
I thought, I'm not gonna no no, but you know
you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (49:31):
Yeah, I know what you're saying, pet Eric, Pet No.

Speaker 3 (49:36):
I mean I just think that neither you James nor
you Eric looked the same that you did as you
did fifteen years ago.

Speaker 2 (49:43):
Let's see, I would have been uh, I said, I
have been twelve years old, but yeah, yeah, I definitely
wouldn't have looked the same. But I know what you're saying.

Speaker 11 (49:53):
I do have one more I do have one more question.

Speaker 2 (49:55):
It's been like about three weeks with the last.

Speaker 11 (49:56):
Time I called, and have you noticed going NXT? Like
I hate to say this, but like you know, the
similarities of how Michael Cole favored the mid is like
similar to how Jr. Favored Stone Cold Back and added
to are you thinking maybe that's like setting up to
the a couple of years the terms eighth in him
to be like, well, not often, but you know, in

(50:18):
that same light, what do you think?

Speaker 17 (50:22):
You know what I was?

Speaker 3 (50:23):
I was unfortunately watching some of this again last night,
and uh, the only thing that occurs to me, and
I might be completely off base about this, is that
the reason they have Cole sucking up shamelessly to the
Miz is because miss is gonna be the mystery general
manager and will find out that Cole was in on
it all along. Uh, but of course that makes too

(50:43):
much sense.

Speaker 8 (50:44):
It might not happen.

Speaker 2 (50:45):
Now, how was the reason that Miz was has mis been?
Unless you could have an automated email system, but of
course that would they would just kind of ignore sort
of storyline wholes with that, and just I.

Speaker 3 (51:00):
Mean to me, it seems like, well, that's what I'll
say that that's that's why Cale would have to be
in on it. See, I mean yeah, maybe he would
already know him him.

Speaker 2 (51:08):
Yeah, yeah, okay, yeah, they can probably explain that and
that I'm sure whenever they announce that they'll try to
do some in a logical fashion. But at this point
that I don't know if you could go back through
every single week of this GM storyline, it makes sense
of it all like, Okay, that's that's logical, that's logical,
that's logical. That's it's just not gonna happen. It's been
too inconsistent. So as long as we get a reasonable

(51:31):
explanation from w B on this, I think that will
be acceptable to most of the audience. Eric and Cale,
we appreciate that. Let's go and grab some more phone calls.

Speaker 1 (51:39):
Let's go to the.

Speaker 2 (51:40):
Seven two four area code seven two four. Welcome to
the show. Please stay where you're from. Dave from Pittsburgh.

Speaker 3 (51:48):
Hey Dave, what do you have for a Hey?

Speaker 7 (51:51):
How's it going?

Speaker 2 (51:51):
Guys?

Speaker 7 (51:53):
Basically all I wanted to talk about today was Jim Ross.

Speaker 2 (51:57):
Sure, it seemed.

Speaker 7 (52:00):
Man, it seems as of late he's become like more
front the center, sort of like like like the Ross
reports back on WWE dot com. He's doing all the
FCW tryouts and whatnot. I mean, he's always blogged and
stuff since he's been taken off the air. But I
mean the WWE is wasting one of the I guess,

(52:24):
one of the biggest talents.

Speaker 2 (52:25):
That they have.

Speaker 7 (52:26):
I mean, he's able to get people over just through
his voice, and he's broadcasting, and I mean they're just
wasting away. I mean, Jim Ross could probably announced, but
like another I don't know, ten fifteen years, he's relatively young,
and and I think I don't know, I think that
they need him to pick switch and get him back
on TV every week, because it's all it's pretty obvious

(52:47):
that he'd be willing to do that, I mean, just
based on the stuff he write them his blogs and
the question the answers on his website and whatnot. I mean,
it's it just seems very obvious to me that he
had no problem going back on the Red, no matter
how he beats around the bush and says he he
doesn't want to that.

Speaker 3 (53:06):
What's your take, Well, I mean, I can only go
but you know, I can only go by what I
know and what I've heard. So when Jim Ross said,
as he did before the negotiation started, I don't want
to be traveling every week, which basically is there's basically
some saying I'm not going to be an announcer for
Raw or SmackDown or nx TU what have you, because
that's what's replied to the announcers, then you know, then

(53:28):
I don't think Then I think Vin sick Man decided
and Kevin Dunn decided, Well, this guy doesn't need to
be on the air if he's not going to be
well to be regular voices of WWE. I mean, I mean,
you could put him on the monthly paper and use
him twelve.

Speaker 2 (53:41):
Times a week.

Speaker 3 (53:42):
But that would that would you'd essentially be showing up
Michael Cole and and what's it an Todd Grisham And
you know not that they would probably, I mean that
would that would look bad? That would that would be
you admitting my irregular announcers stuck and I need Jim Ross.

Speaker 2 (53:58):
Jim Ross doesn't want to work.

Speaker 3 (53:59):
Full time.

Speaker 2 (54:01):
Right right it? You know, what do you make of
him for becoming more visible, especially on w w's website,
bringing back the Ross Report, more frequent blogs and commentary
and he and the SCW stuff. Is there something to
read into there? Or is that just a coincidence.

Speaker 3 (54:18):
No, it's not a coincidence. That's my understanding. Is that's
what he was, you know, that's why they've kept him around.
I mean, he's he can do most of his work
from home.

Speaker 5 (54:26):
Uh, he was.

Speaker 3 (54:27):
He was supposed to be helping with with talent relations
and and and doing things like you know, scouting guys
and reporting back to Johnny as. So I mean, I
I think, you know, I think that Bross, if if
I believe what he says, has found a way to
keep his hand in WWE, even if he doesn't get
to announce every week and he no longer has to
worry about, you know, missing an important Oklahoma football game

(54:48):
because because somebody has decided he can't take a week
off from RAW. And I think he's also you know,
he's at the age where he's had health concerns and
he's probably worried that being back out on the road
every week and eating road food and and you know,
and and traveling as much as he had as is
going to UH is going to hurt him physically. So

(55:08):
I mean, I think that I think.

Speaker 9 (55:10):
An accommodation was reached.

Speaker 2 (55:11):
W W Binzer fan didn't want him going.

Speaker 3 (55:13):
To TNA and announcing on impact or or whatever else
TNA is doing, or or more specifically, didn't want him
going into TNA and maybe taking charge of UH, maybe
taking charge of some areas and management, which would give
TNA a clue as to how business is done. So
and you know, I think I think that Jim Rows
and Vinci man I have reached an accommodation that for

(55:34):
the moment, works very well for both of them.

Speaker 2 (55:36):
Yeah, that's a good perspective on that, and it he
keep keep Ross close, you know, keep him in the
house and try to find ways to ebilize him. It
helps boost revenue for your website with the Ross Report
and have some of those barbecue features on w w's
website instead of him getting all the you know, all
the all the traffic generated to his own site. So

(55:58):
that's another perspective on that. But yeah, I got good
points around, Pat David, appreciate that call. Let's go and
grab another phone call. Let's go to the nine one
two area code nine one two. Welcome to show. Please
stay training. Where you're from.

Speaker 13 (56:12):
Market from Savana?

Speaker 7 (56:14):
Hey, Marcus, when you have first set about.

Speaker 13 (56:17):
Yeah going on? Yeah, I just got a quick concerning
how the sports media covers pro wrestling in the United States.
Sure I know this when on the score in TESVN
in Canada, they take a more serious approach so pro wrestling,
but then the United States, it seems like like when

(56:40):
instance ESPN and Fox, the only time they say something
about pro wrestling is when it's the niggative side like
the steroids or the depths, or they take a comedic
approach to it. When I say an athlete that Dennis
Riding and Kennon Green is competing in the sport. I
was just wondering what you thought about that.

Speaker 3 (57:01):
Go ahead, Well, professional wrestling is not a sport. It's uh,
it's a simulation of a sport.

Speaker 4 (57:09):
That's one.

Speaker 1 (57:10):
Number Two.

Speaker 3 (57:10):
You'll notice that when you talk about say ESPN or Fox,
those are two major major networks who don't have any
pro wrestling shows. And I mean, I don't know if
you follow ESPN, but they tend to not speak well
of sports and leagues that they don't have the deals
with in one form or another. And yeah, I guess
Fox Sports there as.

Speaker 18 (57:31):
A mini ESPN would would be kind of the same way.

Speaker 3 (57:34):
So I mean that's you know, and and I mean frankly, yeah, frankly,
pro wrestling hasn't had a good reputation really in the
media is for for a while. And I think part
of that, you know, part of that started when when
Vincent Mahn took over and decided to announce it's fake
and it's not a sport. And a lot of sports
writers are like, oh, boy, I don't have to pretend.

(57:56):
I don't have to you know, I don't have to
pretend anymore, and newspapers like, well, we don't have to
have this little section detailing the results from Monday night
at the Mid South Coliseum. And and you know, yeah,
I mean, and I don't think some of the older
sports I think the younger sports casters, the younger sports
trinders are more willing to cover for what it is,

(58:16):
but the older ones are don't understand it and are
not interested.

Speaker 2 (58:22):
It's yeah, exactly what you said that two main points
of ESPN doesn't have any invested interest in wrestling or
success and which is you know, probably one of the
main reasons why it took flung for them to get
on board the UFC. They have invested interest in success
or failure of USC in n A. You know, it
wasn't until hey, this is a big deal. They started

(58:45):
covering it when it just became a matter of necessity.
And the other part is just wrestling isn't viewed as
a it's just you know, it just it has that
negative connotation. It has sort of that that you get
kind of chuckles, you get laughter when you bring it up.
Sometimes in some circles or people come as like, what
you mean, the fake stuff? You know, so you kind

(59:06):
of get that and ESPN's not gonna cover that. But
you know, in Canada, it's taken much more seriously thanks
to you know, the long tradition of rustling in Canada,
as well as you know TSN previously now the Score
Aaron Raw as well as the Heart family. So that's
kind of your main difference, is there, Farcus. We appreciate

(59:26):
the call, we're and try to grab some more callers
before the end of the show. Let's go to the
seven eight to six area code seven eighty six. Welcome
the show, please station and know where you're from. You
know they're calling me Johnny from Dallas. Hey, Johnny, what
do you go there so much?

Speaker 1 (59:41):
I've been catching up.

Speaker 18 (59:42):
On my one night stance shows from two thousand and
five and Pound of six. I mean, I don't think
this show is this week's gonna hold a canvas to
those two shows. I mean, those shoulder are pretty awesome.
I mean I already hadn't hadn't seen him in a while,
like refreshed my memory, and I don't even I don't.

Speaker 2 (59:57):
I don't think they're gonna match him. You guys, You
guys think they're gonna do bet at.

Speaker 3 (01:00:01):
Or I would thinks I think in terms of match quality,
the vast majority the majority of the matches are gonna suck.
I mean, that's that's that's the nicest way I can
put it. I mean, you know, I mean the Congress
Show hardcore justice, because calling it a bunch of middle
aged guys hit each other with stuff would be too long.

Speaker 2 (01:00:25):
You know. It kind of gets back to where it's
at the top of the show, which is how TNA
presents it. If they can, if they can surround this
this show with those and whistled and try to create
a different atmosphere that sort of sort of covers for
the lack of quality wrestling that's gonna be on display,
isn't it. Draft's gonna be received better. But if it

(01:00:47):
looks and feels like the Impact Zone, it just feels
like a bunch of older wrestlers doing sort of that
Abyss garbage style of wrestling match that Abyss sort of
beaten to the ground and TNA for so long on
pay per view, it's gonna be a disaster. So it's
a matter of can Tommy Dreamer and his gang of

(01:01:08):
men come up with enough fellows and whistles to make
this seem like a compelling reality event. And I mean,
they don't have a card. They have two matches, Like
Pat said, well earlier on the show, so what else
are you gonna do?

Speaker 7 (01:01:22):
So I mean, yeah, you can to do that.

Speaker 2 (01:01:26):
I mean what kind of matchups do they have in
their available bank of matchups?

Speaker 7 (01:01:31):
Uh?

Speaker 2 (01:01:32):
Like, at least you know, Phill twenty minutes a time.

Speaker 3 (01:01:35):
Honestly, I think that. Uh, I think it's done. Not
one hundred percent sure what they're gonna put out there yet,
I've heard that they want to do. You know, the
dudleis versus Axel Rotten and bals mahoney. But I mean
I think what what's seriously gonna happen is these guys
are gonna come in this weekend and you know, Tommy
Dreamer and and Demo Brown and uh and Vince Russ
are gonna look these guys over and from there sort

(01:01:57):
of figure out, okay, this guy can, okay, maybe this
guy should haven't matched this guy pushed in the background,
and sort of work off of that and frankly, you
want to see you and frankly you want to see
who shows up. It was too lit up to work.

Speaker 2 (01:02:12):
And it's for me to announce the talent roster. It's
another thing that shows up and who shows up?

Speaker 3 (01:02:18):
I mean, I will. I don't want to give I
don't I don't want to alarm anybody. But I was
told by a reputable source that one of the east
former recent of you guys on the list should be
on the list in the PW towards VIP board Deadpool contest.

Speaker 2 (01:02:37):
Members. What does that?

Speaker 3 (01:02:38):
Pat?

Speaker 15 (01:02:39):
What's that?

Speaker 2 (01:02:42):
VIP members? What is it?

Speaker 3 (01:02:43):
Okay? The Deadpool is a contest and there was a
clinicoand movie about it some twenty years ago. Uh where
where you gain points by trying to determine who's gonna
which sleman' is gonna die in any given calendar year?

Speaker 2 (01:02:55):
So oh, yes, there you go, uh place for bets?
Go ahead, you're remember? Yeah, let's go and get one
more phone call in. Let's go to the five five
nights by fine night. Welcome to the show. Please set
you know all your phone?

Speaker 8 (01:03:14):
Jay, This is Steve from California.

Speaker 3 (01:03:16):
Hey Steve, what do you suckers?

Speaker 1 (01:03:19):
Uh?

Speaker 11 (01:03:21):
With the birth still thing?

Speaker 4 (01:03:23):
They and they not be in the e c W guys,
any ideas who they are?

Speaker 2 (01:03:28):
Mystery time? Who's they?

Speaker 3 (01:03:31):
I'm going to say that they is whoever? Eric Bischoff
is going to turn on uh is going to turn
on Hogan and leave with at.

Speaker 15 (01:03:38):
The end of the show sixty seconds.

Speaker 2 (01:03:40):
So it's Bishoff being the the the wolf in sheep's clothing?
Is that that your theory?

Speaker 3 (01:03:47):
Why else would he be the special referee? I mean,
who wants to see him?

Speaker 2 (01:03:52):
Well, I guess I gotta find a role for him.
It drafts, Pat, know you know, No, that's it's a
big conclusion. It's the storyline for Mark, the big storyline
arc that's been in play since March. That's finally gonna
play off here right here, this month or next month.
This is it, Pat, isn't it?

Speaker 6 (01:04:08):
No?

Speaker 3 (01:04:09):
I'm sure maybe?

Speaker 2 (01:04:12):
Uh oh, Now that makes about as much sense Pat.
I'll take that explanation at a bishop because I don't
know who else they could be or that. I don't
know if they.

Speaker 3 (01:04:22):
Come up maybe maybe maybe they are the Maybe they
are the next Awa guys who are gonna come in
and day.

Speaker 2 (01:04:31):
Into the show. Thanks ver Un for listening. George Vaci
Membris the graphic the after show coming out of next.

Speaker 19 (01:04:39):
Searching for more great pro wrestling talk, then join me
Jason Powell, host of the three weekly Pro Wrestling Boom podcast.
Each week you'll hear the latest news and analysis for
me and my team at Pro Wrestling God Need, along
with other pro wrestling media members. Plus, the Pro Wrestling
Boom podcast features long form interviews with notable names in
the pro wrestling industry. Subscribing iTunes, your downcast, and all

(01:05:01):
your favorite secondary apps, or visit us directly at PW
boom dot com. Once again, that's PW boom dot com.

Speaker 17 (01:05:26):
Thank you for using blog talk radio.

Speaker 1 (01:05:28):
Goodbye.

Speaker 2 (01:05:30):
All right, that was the after show. A portion of
the show. Now, why doesn't anybody do an Awa invasion?
And why hadn't that ever happened? Oh?

Speaker 3 (01:05:39):
I mean, I think it could happen this weekend. I
think we could see uh, you know, uh Bischoff as
a socking horse and outcome Greg Ganya and Bobby the
Brain Heenan and uh, I guess Nick Backlick is still
alive and Wayne the train Bloom you know, all the
majors and Baron von Rescue all the majors.

Speaker 2 (01:05:57):
Yeah, there you go through. We're gonna have uh the
TNA Roster, the e W Reunion, a w A, and
the w W cast off all on one pay per
view events this Sunday.

Speaker 15 (01:06:08):
There you go, that sounds that sounds great, good times.

Speaker 2 (01:06:12):
Uh, I won't sorry about n XT. You kind of
brought this up on who might be eliminated next week
probably you know, like you said, the two main guys
who are on the cut list are Lucky Cannon and
Percy Watson. Percy stocks dropped. Uh no, thanks, imparting to
John seen A ripping him on Twitter last week. But well,

(01:06:32):
who's your uh, who's your pick to be cut on
the next Tuesday show?

Speaker 3 (01:06:38):
I think, uh, I'm trying to figure out who the
guy who has really stood out the least. Okay, so
let me figure there's what six guys left. Okay, see
if Alex Ryan Lake who stays, Cabal who I should stay,
Husky Harris, who I figure is probably gonna stay, Joe
Hannah ga K, Michael mcgillacatty. I'm pretty sure they're also
not getting rid of up. So I think you're down, Yeah,

(01:06:58):
think yeah, You're down to Lucky Canon and should watch him,
and I think the two Lucky Cannon really stands out
the least, so he would be my guess as to
who is who is not.

Speaker 2 (01:07:07):
Sticking around and this sort of job I mean on
NXC it seems like everyone sort of think of all
of them jobbed out on n XT, but he's still
you know, he stands out personality wise and in the
ring likey Cannon gets joed out and he doesn't stand
that at all. So he's pretty much double screwed. So
I agree with you on that he's gone. I thought

(01:07:28):
he would be gone last the last elimination, but Eli
was first on. That's on that list. I just you know,
some of these guys just aren't fit for TV. Perstie
Watson's a one note gimmick, and Husky Harris is still
trying to find himself in the ring. You know, Alex
Riley and Cavall and Joe Hanny, they're definitely ready for TV,

(01:07:49):
ready to be on you know, on roller SmackDown. Yeah,
as wrestlers personality, why is still developing? Where do you
see those those top three guys in front? Frat Pusky
here if you if you throw him in the nick.
Where do those four guys end up after NXC or
are they part of Nexus? Are you kind of leaning
for they split them off and just incorporate them in

(01:08:12):
the standalone programs or storylines.

Speaker 3 (01:08:15):
I'd love to see them send those guys to SmackDown,
because that's sort of what SmackDown should be for, is
to is to take these guys and bring them along
until they're ready to be on raw. Or they could
if they decide to ditch, you know, say Michael Tarver
and David Atungua out of Nexus, they could take two
of the uh two of the two of those four
three or four NXT guys and plug them in there.

Speaker 7 (01:08:36):
I mean that's a possibility.

Speaker 3 (01:08:39):
Yeah, I would want I would want to put them
on SmackDown. As a matter of fact, James is this
is the heck of the segue. You're segueing right into
this week's listen your mail segment.

Speaker 2 (01:08:48):
Uh, you beat me right too. I'm gonna ask you
what we had in the mailbox today, so go right.

Speaker 3 (01:08:52):
All right? Well, well we had one that I did
not get to last week. And yeah, so we'll start
with that t LB one three nine look at least
from Pennsylvania somewhere right. With WW releasing their financial report
next week, which I guess is now this week, do
you think they will make any talent cuns.

Speaker 5 (01:09:09):
With them?

Speaker 3 (01:09:10):
With them releasing their financial report coming up, do you
think WB will make any talent cuts with them adding
nexus to the roster and season two of nxtning fairly soon.
That's a lot of guys to add to them. It's
a lot of guys to add to the main roster.
If you were in charge of talent relations, who would
be on your shirt list to cut? Actually? I think
I'm just you know, James, if it's all the same

(01:09:32):
to you, are you there? Yeah? Okay, I think I
think maybe I don't want to get into who should
be cut, but I think maybe we could do a
list of guys who who are on the bubble right now?
Is that okay?

Speaker 2 (01:09:46):
Yeah, let's go for it. How about what's five guys?

Speaker 3 (01:09:50):
Okay?

Speaker 2 (01:09:51):
Bottom five?

Speaker 3 (01:09:53):
One would be one would be Hornswag although they could
solve that, they could they could come up with another
midget and maybe make him, uh maybe make him a
a mass Mexican many. Maybe they can bring back super
Porky and have the Evil Midget team with Shabo against
Twin Swaggle and whoever whoever he's gonna be teaming with.

Speaker 8 (01:10:11):
I think that can fall.

Speaker 3 (01:10:12):
But Bunce Waggle should well could be Bunce Swoggle maybe
would be number one. Number two would be Shad gas
Bard because Shad shadd had that match in extreme rules
and pretty much has been sent back down to Florida
and we haven't.

Speaker 2 (01:10:26):
Heard from him since.

Speaker 3 (01:10:27):
So that's that's number two. Tyler Rex. I'm pretty sure
he's still on the roster, and I'm pretty sure he
hasn't I haven't seen him, and I'm pretty sure he's
not injured. So I mean, really, really, when you're looking
at the short list, you're looking at the guys who
just aren't being used for whatever reason. Ezekiel Jackson has
taken a long time to heal and and you know,

(01:10:48):
I don't know. I mean, he's not a big guy
that they might just they might just take a chance
and leave him in there. But he's gotta he's got
to be somebody you consider. And I'm trying to think
of who a fifth one would be that uh you know, yeah,
I think, uh, I think I think that's oh uh
potential fifth ones would be uh Brion Nicky Bella because

(01:11:10):
their whole thing is they were being used to sort
of escort the uh the weekly Celebrity guest host and
now they're cutting back in the Weekly Celebrity Guest Host
and it's pretty clear that they aren't interested in using
them too often as wrestlers.

Speaker 15 (01:11:24):
So so there you go.

Speaker 3 (01:11:26):
There's a short.

Speaker 2 (01:11:27):
List because he because he comes to mine in the
short list. Well, I mean, uh do you think he could?

Speaker 3 (01:11:35):
I mean, he's on Superstars every week, he has the
he has the sort of build that generally Vincerlan and
Johnny Ace like, I could see them. I could see
them maybe cutting him unless they Yeah, but they could
also try repackaging him. It's not like he has distinguished
himself so much as Chris Masters that he couldn't do
something else with.

Speaker 2 (01:11:55):
Him, right, Uh, I think Primo maybe just.

Speaker 3 (01:12:02):
That's that's true. But Prima has a good attitude. And
they also have another plane brother for they who is
in de delopon Metals, who I think that they're essentially
planning to bring up and have them tagged with Premium
so they it depends.

Speaker 2 (01:12:13):
That could work.

Speaker 3 (01:12:13):
It depends, yeah, and.

Speaker 2 (01:12:15):
They haven't they haven't reemphasized in the tag division. The
USSO has kind of disappeared after uh, what was the
last pay per view? Was it was the money in
the bank?

Speaker 3 (01:12:24):
Yes, it was you?

Speaker 2 (01:12:26):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:12:26):
They they they I think they're out of ideas as
to what to do with them right now, which is uh.
I mean you could solve that by, you know, sending
them over to SmackDown or something and giving them someone
and giving them somebody the few lives, right.

Speaker 2 (01:12:39):
And I think that the timing usually, yeah, when WV
is gonna report earnings, you didn't, they'll cut them right
before there they report earnings. Sometimes they'll cut them right after.

Speaker 3 (01:12:51):
Uh yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:12:52):
And I'm trying to think that the pattern of whether, Okay,
if it's a bad quarter, then they cut people before
or after I can't remember which which one it is.
I'm trying to predict they gonna report tomorrow.

Speaker 3 (01:13:02):
Well, I'm not an accountant, but I don't think a
couple of undercard wrestlers one way or the other are
going to make a huge difference to the bottom line
of w W A.

Speaker 2 (01:13:09):
Yeah, it's true. And you know it's a matter. You know,
it's a it's a cost of doing business, is changing
up to talent and who you have in development on
who you have on the main roster, and if you
kind of run out of ideas, then you cut them.

Speaker 3 (01:13:23):
And I think I think it's a bigger deal that
Sean Michaels is off the roster and you don't have
to pay him the sort of money they were paying him.

Speaker 2 (01:13:31):
And it's kind of like the Astros unloading Lance Burtman Royals.
Well it does to pay part of their money, which
is ridiculous to me, but yeah, it's sort of unloading
them and it freezes up cap space to get some
other talent, to get you know, four players the same
amount of money you're playing. You're you're paying that one
big name. So that's true, Pat, I mean having Michael's
off the books, that was and that's a big financial

(01:13:54):
investment in him because he's been there for so long.
So then that's a good point. And perhaps there won't
be any cuts or there won't be any So what
else do we have that would think we kind of
discuss falling pretty good.

Speaker 3 (01:14:07):
Let's see one more emailer who has two questions. Well,
Dave Portivo from London rights Pat and James. Maybe last
year or more, it seems WW is getting smaller or
different shaped guys a chance they might not be pushed
the moon but Cabal, Evan Bourne, Brian Daniels and Justin
Gabriel Husky, Harris Rey Mysterio and Chris Jericho are evidence

(01:14:28):
of this. So if you were AJ Styles, Samoa Joe,
or anyone else in TNA, would you begin to start
fancying your chances in the WWE over TNA. Let's see,
I you know, if AJ Styles or Samoa Joe gets
upset enough, then yeah, they'd consider going to WWE. I
have not heard that WWE is so excited about the
prospect of AJ Styles or Samoa Joe that they were

(01:14:51):
interested in making a run at them, although I think
that they would probably find roster space for either of them.

Speaker 2 (01:14:56):
What do you think, James, I think aj would have
a better chance and Joe. AJ's you know, sort of
that that baby face when he's booked properly as a
baby face, someone that they could present like a Tenga
Raymond Cio or an von Bourne, sort of that underdog
baby face matched up to gets a larger heel. Joe,
you know, he's got he's got a different body style.

(01:15:17):
He has a lot of miles on his body at
this point in his career. Plus I don't think he's
ever really had a willingness to work that that ww
B schedule. And you know he's got a family and uh,
sort of AJ and sort of you know, you're on
that TNA schedule for so long and all of a
sudden you have to double your day too and double
your travel and you know, I don't know if they'd

(01:15:39):
be willing to do that, and I could be wrong
on that, but you know, kind of going from the
TNA schedule to WWE, that's a big leap, especially for
the guy who might not be utilized right off the bat.
I mean some other Joe might be on Superstars with
with William Regal, you know that that might be where
he spotted, but I'd say AJ has a better shot

(01:16:00):
and Joe would at this point.

Speaker 3 (01:16:02):
Well that's that's a good point. Okay. Second question, w
W has shown a commitment to treating new talent seriously.
Do you think this will or has fuel descent in
the TNA locker room?

Speaker 2 (01:16:11):
Uh?

Speaker 3 (01:16:11):
Well, my response would be, Dave, I don't know what
you're talking about. TNA is definitely uh treating new talent seriously.
Look at the big pushes they gave Hulk Hogan and
Rick Flair and Bob Van Dam and Jeff Hardy and
mister Anderson and those guys are all new talent.

Speaker 1 (01:16:27):
Uh. We serious.

Speaker 3 (01:16:29):
The The serious answer would be, there are so many
different reasons why why different roster members of TNA are
upset with management right now that you know, I mean
that that whatever WW is doing is just is just
one one more drop in the bucket.

Speaker 2 (01:16:47):
I think that. I mean a lot of guys really
aren't on w's radar. I mean you look at something
like conta Smith's creed released by TNA, and he gets
the developmental contract WW, so good for him. But if
you're at least from TNA, you know, nine times out
of ten, you're not even on w's radar unless somebody

(01:17:08):
in that company says, hey, look at this guy. This
guy's available, he's done this and this. Let's at least
bring him in for a look, or give him a
dark match, or send them to developmental or do something
with him because he could be utilized. That's maybe one
out of ten guys who have that opportunity in TNA.
So I think maybe perhaps the other factor is that

(01:17:29):
potential startup with the Willpond family and whether that has
any merits or not, at least it's a topic of
discussion in TNA, and I think of enough guys kind
of pass around the word that, yeah, maybe this thing
is legit and there's actually something tangible that proves it
is legit, then you might start to see a lot
of more serious discussion in the teeny locker room. Right now,

(01:17:52):
it's sort of, you know, it's sort of this cautious
what are you hearing? What do you know? Type discussion,
and that's kind of where they are. I don't think
a lot of guys saying, hell, but I can go
to ww right now, they're offering me this and this.
I don't think that's realistic in TNA locker room right now.

Speaker 3 (01:18:08):
I think I think the point of the question was,
since wwly apparently knows how to take young talent and
push them, does that make the young talent and TNA
sit around and go, you know, and gnash their teeth
as they watched, as they prepare to watch Tommy Dreamer
headline impact as suits.

Speaker 2 (01:18:26):
You mean, yeah, perhaps perhaps especially Evan Born and Evant
Born was you know, he was on the MTV show.
He's been a ring of honor for a while. He's
on the independent scene for a while, and all of
a sudden he shoots the top of a VCW and
that that you know, sort of third tier Brandon and

(01:18:47):
he's featured Jones, Tina and Rawl a couple of months later.
So a lot of interest, opportunity and time in the
right time, the right opportunity. But you know, I mean,
cot Schliff is creating. The best thing that might have
happened new Is career was being released from by TNA
and signing the developmental contract w B. He can be
on TV and you know, six months from now he

(01:19:08):
could be in a season three there is one. Yeah,
I'm sure there's some nashing sort of that. Well, I
could you know, I could be featured in Evanborne swat
if you're in TNA in the miles you've thrown your
body in the effort you put in to help build
this company, and you're not being utilized. And yeah, uh
look at the X the X Division. EX Division is
just not even on the radar right now. It's it's

(01:19:30):
not even being featured. So I'm sure Brian Kendrick, he
was just in WW you know what two years ago,
and I'm sure he could say sit there and say, well,
I mean I could have been in Evanborne slot eventually,
but they didn't know how to utilize me. But perhaps
now they would and perhaps something's changed or they find
something in that guy like an Evanborne or Evanbourne does
the right things or says the right things, and they

(01:19:51):
gets an opportunity. So yeah, I'm sure there is a
little bit of that in T and A right now.

Speaker 3 (01:19:57):
I'm pretty sure the reason that Brian Kendrick is not
in w W has not changed. But anyway, Yeah, yeah,
I know that there's a lot of dissension in the
p and A locker room over over Tommy Dreamer coming
in and getting a spun and creative and Andy and
the former ECW guys pretty much off the street getting

(01:20:19):
their own coming in and getting their own pay per view.

Speaker 2 (01:20:21):
Yep, I think that.

Speaker 3 (01:20:23):
Has caused more dissension than anything WWE has time.

Speaker 2 (01:20:27):
No, I agree with that, definitely.

Speaker 3 (01:20:30):
All right, James, you have any more questions for me
before you go back up and uh and then find
the missus.

Speaker 2 (01:20:37):
Yeah, I think we've I think we've just covered everything
that's uh what I had on my list, and TA
tomorrow and I should be interesting for a variety of reasons.
And then of course that will hearing you on the round.
I'm sure you're eagerly anticipating the roundtable after the hardcore Wait,
what's the end of the paper view on Sunny Pat
Hardcore Justice?

Speaker 16 (01:20:58):
Yeah, there it is.

Speaker 2 (01:21:00):
The roundtable for said pay per view on Sunday should
be one of the the more entertaining roundtables one way
or the other on Sunday with with Wade and and
Bruce and you Pat so uh towards VIP members can
look out for that roundtable on Sunday breaking down the
Hardcore Justice pay per view. But yeah, I think we've

(01:21:20):
about covered everything today, so Pat, Andy, I don't work
before we sign off.

Speaker 3 (01:21:26):
Well, a lot of RP members will not be a
tribute to the the most interesting part of the weekend,
which is the escalating excuses that Bruce Mitchell and I
give for trying to get out of watching the pay.

Speaker 5 (01:21:35):
Per view.

Speaker 2 (01:21:38):
Un have line line up for Helena cell I got
the one year anniversaries. That's about that one one year
anniversary one?

Speaker 3 (01:21:47):
No Pet, Well, yeah, I'd rather watch Helma Sell than
than this, though you know that's true. Well, well, although
we are hearing rumors about an Undertaker versus Kane helms
All match, which you know, yeah, what without data.

Speaker 2 (01:22:01):
That would have been our cover third two thousand. Oh,
I'm sorry our cover third twenty ten. That's the Nate,
that's the Data Undertaker match. Yeah there all right, Pat,
good discussion, Egg. Glad to have you on livecast. I'm
gonna go uh goo Final Life and uh go go
get some dinner on Bale Street and check on Memphis.
So Torch on miss Pat Neale. This is Torch Assistant

(01:22:23):
editor James Caldwell, sign it off.

Speaker 1 (01:22:32):
You don't have to wait for the way Keller Pro
Wrestling post show to find out what I thought of
Monday Night Raw and SmackDown. Each week, you can check
out my reports that are updated live throughout Raw and
SmackDown at pwtorch dot com. My written report will tell
you what's happening in detail in case you missed the show,
and it'll also analyze key segments and give my random
thoughts quips on what I am watching as it airs.

(01:22:54):
So check it out every Monday night and Tuesday night
at petwtorch dot com. That also apply to WWE pay
per views. I cover those live at PW torch dot
com with a detailed written report with star ratings, and
of course you can find other TV reports from other
contributors to PW Torch, such as nxt roh, Impact Wrestling,
and more. Check it out PW torch dot com, your

(01:23:15):
first stop for TV and pay per views written reports.
Welcome PW porch Live pads. I am Pro Wrestling Court
newsletter editor and PW torch dot Com editor Wade Keller

(01:23:37):
joined today by Torch columnist Greg Parks. Greg has been
awhile since I've been hosting with you as a co host.

Speaker 15 (01:23:44):
Yeah, I uh missed a week there, I think two
weeks ago, and I was with Jeeves last week, so
it ever been a while.

Speaker 1 (01:23:49):
Yeah, this is the way the scheduled out. Well, good
to have you on and decent amount to talk about today.
Obviously we're approaching two big pay per views, TNA on
the radar more than usual because they've broken from their
usual format and WWE obviously with their you know, one
of their top three pay reviews of the year, along
with Roy rumblind Mania SummerSlam. Coming up with that in
mind to me the word of the day, the number

(01:24:12):
of the day is one hundred and forty eight if
I remember it right, that is one hundred and forty
eight thousand. I should say that is the number of
people who bought the fatal four way pay per view. Yeah,
or one hundred and forty three. It's even worse. One
hundred and forty three thousand is the number of the
day that's down from the pay per view it replaced
last year's same month, the Bash, which did one hundred

(01:24:35):
and seventy eight thousand buys. Dipping under two hundred thousand
is is not good. The last three pay per views
are the three pay reviews after WrestleMania, all did less
than two hundred thousand buys. But to do under one
hundred fifty thousand buys really is a big story. Something
is happening and it's not good. Vincentmann called it the
perfect storm in his media conference call the day when
talking about a really lousy second quarter for WWE. He

(01:24:58):
had a number of reasons the next nations. But to me,
I think that one hundred and fifty being the low
one hundred fifty thousand means there's gonna have to be
some real discussions about talent, format, hype, schedule and what
I talked about when they announced their price rays over
six eight months ago. The price rays, you know, at
some point are these cabables starting to hit people hard

(01:25:19):
during a still a full pledge recession.

Speaker 15 (01:25:21):
What do you think, right Well, like you said, they're
gonna look at all of those and it's good that
this man did acknowledge that, you know, it was not
a good quarter for them. He's not certainly hiding from
the fact that that it was a poor quarter for
WWE not trying to really sugar close tendency. Had the
excuse with the perfect storm and everything like that. But

(01:25:42):
I think one of the degrees is the same, the
four way concept. I just don't think it's that big
of a draw. And it's certainly whether it was that
or whether it was the perfect storm as Vince talked about,
that really brought down the buys for that pay per view.
It really was, like you said, disappointing one hundred and
forty three thousand buys. I mean, that's that's a really

(01:26:04):
bad number. And there could be a lot of reasons
reasons for that, but I think one of the big
ones is WWE has begun instituting these pay per views,
you know, with the stipulation focused pay per views, and
I just don't think fatle four way when you're thinking
of giving up your money for TLC pay per view
or giving up your money for a pay per view

(01:26:27):
with maybe stronger, stronger stipulations going into it. Satle four
Way is just kind of, you know, almost another pay
per view there. So when viewers are thinking about spending
their money on, you know which pay per view, which
kind of not the Big four, but which which other
pay per views that they watch, I think SADLE four

(01:26:48):
way kind of will get the short end of the
stick if you're looking at the other pay per views there.

Speaker 1 (01:26:52):
And I think too it might be the evidence we've
been looking for that the three way and four way
matches have been overdone to the point that they have
no merit left. They have no value left in terms of, oh,
the novel team more than two guys in the ring
fighting each other. I got to see what happens in
this crazy chaos. We've seen it so much. I think
we're and I've been pushing for this for a while.

(01:27:13):
I really think the next big concept in pay per
view is to promote one wrestler against another wrestler and
make it, you know, because when you have a fatal
four way, it's hard, it's hard to get excited about
John Cena being in a match in which he may
not be involved in the finish. You know what's at stake.
It's so you've got to think of all the different

(01:27:34):
combinations and when when you've got four fatal four way
matches on the show. One of the one was women,
but you've got two, one from each brand, two male
heavyweight title matches at stake, it's just too much to
keep track of. And I made fun of the fact
that they kept saying, you know, John Cena said anything
could happen. That's what's gonna sell this is anything can happen.
It's like, well, no, not really, anything can happen. You know,

(01:27:56):
one thing won't happen. We're not going to see a
classic one on one match between two people that we
remember prefer ages. That's one thing that can happen when
you have a fatal four way. And I think there's
a lot a lot of people look at that as
as a concept that, like you said, Greg didn't really
intrigue them enough to order it. I think that's one
thing they need to take a look at. Let me
get the phone numbers out. We'll talk more about the
financial for WWE, which is a big deal as the

(01:28:17):
show progresses. We also want you to set the agenda
for the show with your phone calls. The number is
six four six seven one nine A two eight six
four six seven nine two eight. We have only two
people on hold who want to talk right now, so
you can get in line now and uh and we'll
get to you in just a matter of a few minutes.
We'll talk about any subjects in current events, and as always,
it's it's open lines. If you want to send us

(01:28:39):
an email question, either during the live cast or if
you're listening to us on delay by through blogtok, radio, iTunes,
or our VIP site or any other means, you can
email us a question also for a future show. That
email is PW Torchlive Cast at gmail dot com. PW
Torch Livecast at gmail dot com. Let's let's go to

(01:29:00):
the phone lines and we'll hit on a few of
the subjects too. Between calls Greg and begin with Eric
code four one five four five around there. Please stay tune,
name it where you're from?

Speaker 17 (01:29:09):
Going on guys, JOHNA conference, San Francisco.

Speaker 1 (01:29:12):
Hey, Jonathan, what's up today?

Speaker 2 (01:29:15):
I just want to talk wi W business. Yeah, good, Uh,
I guess we're gonna start off like the whole four
of the fatal four away concept, and why it was
like just horrible. It's kind of because you know, it's
more predictable. You already know John Cena's not gonna, like,
you know, get beat. You already know what's gonna happen

(01:29:35):
is always gonna be like it took three guys to
beat Johnsena, or it's you know, John Cena got thrown
out the ring and someone gets the quick count. Yeah,
Like so why even bother ordering the pay per view
if you're already gonna you know, at least in a
one on one match. It's not you know, as predictable as.

Speaker 1 (01:29:53):
You know that's a three way or four way Jonathan's
as weird as they sold. The fatal four way concept
is being unpredictable. But you're kind of saying in what
I was saying too earlier, there is a level of
predictability in the sense that I think most fans think
the top stars aren't actually gonna lose, and and part
of the selling of a pay per view is seeing
does which of these two top stars loses? But when
you put four people in the ring, you do start

(01:30:15):
to get a sense whether you're right or wrong, you
at least think ahead of time. You know, the lower
end guys are going to lose. And you know what, Jonathan,
sorry about that, go ahead, Greg a few minutes ago.

Speaker 15 (01:30:27):
Is that with the Fingle four AID concept, you know,
fans want to see you know, stars made and guys
guys lose, and guys win, and guys move up and
down the ladder. But with a fiddle four AID concept,
you're almost guaranteed that there isn't going to be a
clean win. Like Jonathan said, somebody could sneak in and
get the pin. Well, yeah, they're put over, but they're
not over strong to the point.

Speaker 2 (01:30:49):
Where they're getting built up.

Speaker 15 (01:30:50):
And fans want to see, you know, wrestlers rise from
the top of the card or from the bottom of
the car to the top. They want to see that
advancement and the storylines focusing on that. Yet in a
fiddle four A concept, there's just so much of fluke
wins and fluke losses that you don't lose a lot
by losing and you don't win a lot by winning,

(01:31:10):
and there's not much of that kind of movement, and
I think fans want to see that. And with the
Citel foury concept generally that just isn't there.

Speaker 1 (01:31:18):
And we had the big nexus run in at the
Fatal four Way pay per view leading to the finish.
We're seeing it was the guy who got ten, but
it wasn't one of the people in the match, which
you know, in a way kind of makes micro the match. Jonathan,
back to you, you had something.

Speaker 17 (01:31:28):
That then, like who is supposed to exceed vincemick Man
when whenever Visti Man dies, Because don't I don't see
Vicky Man ever retiring because he does, you know, he
loves that company like it's his own child. But who,
I don't think it's gonna be triple H because he

(01:31:48):
doesn't seem like somebody that's gonna go into a board
meeting and do what Vince mcmon does. Well, I think
that's like completely out the question.

Speaker 1 (01:31:57):
It's a hell of a question, Jonathan. We're getting that
more often now as vincac Man gets deeper into his sixties.
It's a legitimate question because I mean, the the WWE
is more vincient Mann than the Cowboys are. Are Jerry
Jones or the Yankees are George Steinbrenner or I mean,
I guess he's about his taking vinscic Mann out of

(01:32:17):
WWE is kind of like taking Oprah off of The
Oprah Show in a way, I mean, it's closer to that.
It is hard to imagine, not just on camera, but
even predating him being an on air character. He's so
if you know what goes on, if you know what
goes into the product, you know how big of a
role vincick Man has, and he's such a big, towering

(01:32:37):
figure over the industry, it's hard to imagine. I think
Stephanie McMahon is a top candidate to be the person
in the person in charge. I think if Vince runs
WWE long enough and her kids get to junior high
in high school age before it becomes necessary, she'll more
easily break away from being a stay at home mom

(01:32:58):
in essence, which she likes to do a lot of
the time now, and maybe be able to go take
over the reins. And she does have that personality. I mean,
Jerry Jared told this story to me in a torch
talk back in the early nineties or the mid nineties,
that you know, he was at the dinner table with
McMahon's and somebody says something about Shane, you know, someday
you'll take over for your for your father.

Speaker 2 (01:33:16):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:33:16):
They had other guests. It was like a dinner party,
and Stephanie just jumped in and said it may not
be the son, it might be the daughter. And she
was younger than Shane and clearly showed that initiative from
a real young age. So I don't think we should
call up Stephanie because she's a girl, or that she's
younger than Shane. Shane's not part of the company anymore.
She's been in a power position before, and the fact

(01:33:36):
that she's married to Triple A, she means they can
be the power couple and they can kind of delegate
in a way that fits their personality and their traits.
So that that's my short answer. Other than that, it
is a really tough question, Greg, what do you what
do you think about that? Well, my first.

Speaker 15 (01:33:52):
Initial reaction was, yeah, Stephanie, it almost had to be.
You know, she's I guess still head of a creative
right now, overseeing all of creative, and you got to
wonder if she would keep that position if she does
go to the more of the business side that Vince
runs now with Linda out of the picture, or would
you put someone else in charge of that and just
kind of handle the business, or would you try and
do both. The other thing is is Vince doesn't seem

(01:34:14):
a successor before he dies. What happens, who's the one
who gets to name the successor to him?

Speaker 1 (01:34:20):
I mean, is it just the McMahon's have always tried
to retain that that majority voting power in terms of
the number of stocks and the types of stocks on
our own. I think ultimately they would they would have.
It's actually a good question for me to look more into.
But I think if McMahon left his shares to a
family member, then that that power would revert to In

(01:34:41):
this case, probably Stephanie. Now Stephanie and Hunter. You know,
I bet he's readjusted things with Shane leaving the company
whatever that was going to be before. But it is
the fact that it's a publicly held company and not
a family owned one hundred percent family owned company does
complicate it. And it could end up being Jack Swagger,
It could end up being Evan Born. I mean, you know,
if Vince mc mann hangs out for another twenty five years.
Jack Swagger's a smart guy, college educated, has a natural

(01:35:04):
listening for the business. I mean, I'm just saying, you know,
we may not know who that person is. It may
be so off the chart, and he could be a
non wrestling person and they decide, you know, could be
a Dixtie Carter type. It just comes in, gets elected
by the board for their business prowess, succeeding in some
you know, smartphone company, and they come in and don't
know anything about wrestling and destroy the company in the
process because they think, you know, they can run it.

(01:35:26):
It's an interesting question. And obviously, you know, those of
us who are quite a bit younger than musick Man
will probably live to see that day, just statistically speaking,
and it'll be a fascinating story. Not to be too morbid,
but you know, it's a fact. All right. We got
a ton of people on hold now, Greg, so why
don't we keep keep going through college? Jonathan, thanks for
the good question. We're up to seven people on hold

(01:35:46):
right now, So if if you're not eager to be
on hold for a while, don't call in quite yet.
We'll let you know when we get the number of
callers knocked down a few Eric code a six fide
you're next in line. Please state your name and where
you're from.

Speaker 9 (01:35:58):
Hey, what's going on, guys in Tennessee?

Speaker 1 (01:36:00):
A good Stephen? What's up?

Speaker 5 (01:36:04):
Not much?

Speaker 15 (01:36:04):
I kindly got a quick question. I want to ask,
do you think obviously now with the UH for.

Speaker 16 (01:36:09):
The numbers to this quarter for Vince.

Speaker 15 (01:36:11):
That his numbers were down and he said that, you know,
I need Blaine or Lacker like the fight that people
were retiring and then injuries and all that stuff. But
do you think a big chunk of it was, especially
they're being in WrestleMania that like it's missing, like the
big match feel.

Speaker 2 (01:36:23):
You know what I mean?

Speaker 15 (01:36:24):
Like you look at like you have see they did
a great round promoting it, like their magazine promotes the
fighter gonna happen on next month, and you I think
it's something that the WD can do at least, you know,
at least for Mania. At least is st making a
magazine more focused on Hey, he's the matches that are happening.

Speaker 1 (01:36:38):
Yeah, I mean I think it. I think it comes
down to having compelling matches and then mark marketing those matches.
I don't think there's any doubt about that. I think
when you look at the concept, it's I still just
think they're learning a lesson here. It's I think the
cable bill came in for WrestleMania, and the cable bill
came in for the Row Rumble, and a lot of
people just said, wow, that that's a lot of and
a lot of people, you know, us on auto pay

(01:36:58):
and they don't think about it. That's what they wants
you to do. But when you raise the price like that,
and then they seem, you know, when the biggest stuff
is happening on raw, the concept, the concept pay per
views I think are the major key, and it does
come down having big matches. Visc Mann would say Batista retired,
We didn't, we didn't really didn't see that happening. Shawn
Michaels retired. Undertaker's been out with an unforeseen, you know,

(01:37:19):
an unpredictable injury. Although at his age you should assume
he's going to be injured a lot of the time.
And Ford Blach had the movie and and then an injury.
You know, at his age, he's you also have the
factor in he might be injured. And Randy Orton just
didn't catch fire. I don't think Vince gave himself enough
credit for building stars the past year or so. I
think it could be a lot worse right now then.

(01:37:39):
I think it could be a lot worse right now
than it would have been had they not been putting
Jack Swagger in a position to emerge as a growing star,
and had they not done what they've done with Seamus.
I mean, they could be in much bigger trouble right now. Greg,
any any comments or follow up on that.

Speaker 15 (01:37:55):
Yeah, we always kind of talk about w W mentioned
the boat capitalizing on the success with these guys like
an Evan Porn who hits a big pusher of two
weeks and then just pulled back, or a Kolfie Kingstonner
he was a guy like Dolph Zigler, and then we
see when these injuries occur, when their retirements occur, and
someone is needed to get pulled up to that main event,
that main events seen while they've got these guys waiting

(01:38:17):
in the wings who they can really write a compelling
story about to get them back into the main events
because they've been there before, and you know, it's just
a matter of finding the right time and an injury
opening up. And I think that's a lot of the
reason why they do test these guys out in the
main events, maybe with no with no real idea to
use them right off the bat, maybe just keeping them

(01:38:39):
in wait for a situation to occur where they're going
to need them. Yeah, but they know that they can
perform at that.

Speaker 16 (01:38:44):
Level if they do need it.

Speaker 1 (01:38:45):
Yeah. And I think Kofi is one of those guys
that I bet they wish they didn't pull back on
when they did, because I think he got that mst
raw where he had that big girl with Randy Orton,
has had to capitalize on that and not pulled back.
He could have been somebody ready to step up in
a bigger way than he has. I think there's aired.
I think they know that they need to start pushing
younger stars, that the talent they've leaned on is aging
out and his injury prone. Even the ones who are

(01:39:07):
still around our injury prone. You know. McMahon said it's
gonna in the conference, colle he said it's gonna take
a while. I would suggest there's no quick turnaround. You
can't wave a magic wand and receive the benefit of
new stars overnight. And that's true, but you can plan
three years ahead, you know, and do exactly what you said, Greg.
Maybe we're not going to push you in main events,
but we're going to treat you like a main eventor
in case we need you to be in the main events.

(01:39:28):
And they just haven't been good at that. And I
think it's part of the culture of the status quote,
you know, protecting the stars who are on top and
not trying to complicate things. But you know, they got
caught with their pantst one, so to speak, this summer
with as vincik Man said, a perfect storm. You can
use that story about a perfect storm of stockholders once
every five years, you know, or every four years. But
that's about it.

Speaker 20 (01:39:53):
I'm Kelly Wells, host of the seven Star podcast, the
new Ongoing Torch show covering the world of New Japan
pro wrest We'll drop new episodes as major shows and
noteworthy events dictate and.

Speaker 21 (01:40:05):
I'm Chris Lansdowe join us as we covered the ever
changing landscape of New Japan as they navigate an era
with no lack of talent. But I really need to
create some news staves. You can stream then your seven
Stop podcast now from Pro Wrestling Talk, Stephen anything else.

Speaker 3 (01:40:32):
Yeah, that's real quick.

Speaker 8 (01:40:33):
Obviously TEENA is only like promoted talked about one.

Speaker 15 (01:40:36):
Back happening, and that's been like the Barbade and Jerry
Lynn match and now Tolle Jerman Raven. Do you think,
like tonight that is going to end that that same
that's again it is coming on. Here's four more matches
that are gonna.

Speaker 1 (01:40:46):
Happen, say to night. You know, I've I've avoided too much.
I haven't looked at it spoilers in real detail on
what they did on tonight's show. If I can avoid it,
I like to. You know, I can't always do that,
So I'm not sure what they're gonna do. So that's
just something we're gonna, you know, probably talk about tomorrow.
I don't know that they should. I've talked about this
on my VIP updates when I've been previewing these pay
per views. I'm not sure it helps them to actually

(01:41:07):
announce the matches. And I know there's the downside, which
fans go, well, what am I paying for? But I
think you'd rather leave them wondering or fantasizing about who
might show up and what surprises might appear, than confirm
that the lineup is one of their worst is one
of the worst case scenarios. You know why why not
let you might get more advis out of people.

Speaker 7 (01:41:25):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:41:25):
It's what they said about Colin Powell back Colan Powell
back in the day as a presidential candidate. Until he
starts talking, everybody projects what they think he would what
is what they think his point of view would be,
and they would of course vote for him. And then
as soon as he opens his mouth, people go, what, Oh,
I don't like this guy as much as I thought.
That's how I feel about It's kind of a data
reference now, but that's how I feel about this ECW
pay per view. It's not going to be a very

(01:41:45):
good lineup. I mean, it just isn't you know. They
don't have a lot of a lot of the top
top ECW stars and the ones that they are getting
are you know, there's just not time to create a
feud that would would I think, get people really driven
to order the pay per views, so they have to
sell it. I think on a general more of a
general hey celebrate with us, a cool old brand with
a bunch of the guys getting back together again. And

(01:42:07):
I'm not sure it's the rung approach. What do you think, Greg?
Are they better off? And out saying of at least
a few more matches, or should they just stick to
maybe two or three and leave the rest of people's imaginations.

Speaker 15 (01:42:16):
Yeah, two or three is good. I mean, this pay
per view is going to be based around surprises, and
they're gonna ask fansa students for surprises and in general,
I mean it kind of worked for the one nine
stand pay per views. And the other thing is I mean,
like you said, the last week especially, I was kind
of surprised at the little amount of height that went

(01:42:39):
into the pay per view and how it was more
business as usual as far as putting TNA over and
getting the TNA storylines continuing to advance them and not
really aside from Dreamer and events in the main event
and the opening promo, there wasn't a whole lot said
about the EV two pay per view, And I think.

Speaker 2 (01:42:59):
That's the best way to go, because, like you said, you.

Speaker 15 (01:43:01):
Can't spend a lot of TV time hyping these matches
and getting fans to care about the matches and fused
because this is gonna this might be just a one
and done deal and you're gonna need to continue to
build the TNA brand even while you're trying to sell
this pay per view though it certainly it's almost a
balancing ants as they kind of have to do. But
they've got an air on the side of TNA and

(01:43:22):
leave the surprises for the EV two pay per view.

Speaker 1 (01:43:25):
I think let's go to the next phone call area
code sixty five one. Thanks for calling. Please state your
name and where you're from.

Speaker 14 (01:43:33):
Hey, wait, thanks for taking my calls.

Speaker 1 (01:43:34):
Mike from what Barry? Hey, Mike? How you doing?

Speaker 16 (01:43:37):
How you doing?

Speaker 1 (01:43:38):
You follow the teams today? Was that crazy or what?

Speaker 14 (01:43:41):
That was a roller coaster ride?

Speaker 16 (01:43:42):
In a half?

Speaker 2 (01:43:43):
Oh?

Speaker 5 (01:43:43):
Man?

Speaker 1 (01:43:44):
They were down six. For people who don't care, I'll
fill you in in ten seconds. The Twins renowns are
up six to nothing going into a they take out
the starter and long story short, they enter the night
tie six to six, including a grand slam that tied it,
and then the Twins had a couple of runners on
base and they ended up going ahead and ultimately winning

(01:44:05):
when there was a pop up infield fly that hit
speakers and catwalk on the roof of the dome in Tampa,
and the infield is an outfielder's last track of the ball.
It was sweet revenge. It's called the Twins used to
win in the Dome, you know, because they knew their field.
Well well that's that's not a perfect analogy. But but
in the Twins won on a total fluke. But it was,
it was it was very dramatic. That was a fun game.

Speaker 15 (01:44:24):
I'll just say I have Kevin Slowly on my fantasy
team and wasn't pleased that I wasn't able to from him.

Speaker 1 (01:44:30):
Yeah, that is, he had a great game and and
to go it's six to nothing with an out with
one I don't know if it was one or two
outs in the eighth or whatever it was, but he
gave up a home run and maybe a walk or something.
So I mean it was there were signs he was
slowing down, but the poor guy had to think that
was a great bet to get a win. So anyway,
go ahead, Mike.

Speaker 14 (01:44:48):
Oh well, I think today is a good day. I
think it's a real wake up call for for U
W TOWV in a pay per view business.

Speaker 1 (01:44:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 14 (01:44:57):
I mean, I don't think any of their surprised by
some of those numbers for a million different reasons. I mean,
obviously that's the price and the gimmicks and everything. It's
just too much. But personally, they were really pushing that
anything can happen, stuff hard, and we haven't heard that
the last couple of months. I mean that we were
hearing at daily in interviews, but the lettsses, I'd say

(01:45:19):
maybe not, but definitely the last six weeks or so,
we haven't heard that set as much. And I think
that's a sign. And you know, I really don't like
that that heart thought they were giving about the four
way matches being you know, the champion doesn't even have
to get ten to lose his title. I don't think
that's a good thing.

Speaker 1 (01:45:38):
Healers, don't bring me back. Don't bring me back to
June or when I was ranting about that every day
on the show.

Speaker 2 (01:45:44):
I hate it.

Speaker 1 (01:45:44):
I agree, you know, oh, I know, I know. I agree.
You're bringing back bad memories though, because you're totally right now. Yeah,
it means the concept up see here I go. It
means the concept of the title. If the champion can
lose it without actually being involved in the finish. You
can't do that and expect the title to mean anything
going forward. It ships away at the credibility of one
of your top assets, an asset that never goes away.

(01:46:05):
It never retires, it never becomes a movie star, it
never gets injured. That title is one of your top
assets at all times and you need to protect that.
And the fatal four way concept chips away at its
credibility in the entire concept that the winner, that the
champion is somebody who earned it by beating the person
who used to hold the title. So, okay, there's my
spent a couple of months. Go ahead, Well, I'll.

Speaker 14 (01:46:26):
Just say it in a sentence. You know, John Cena
doesn't gain anything by losing a title, and I can
tend and a heel at Jack Swiger doesn't gain anything
by winning a title. That way, no win, no win situation.
But in the last call it kind of touched on it,
but I want to reiterate. I was very disappointed to

(01:46:49):
read McMahon's comments making some very decent excuses about Batista
Michael's not being there, But just where was the you know, yeah,
US guys like Triple H, Shawn Michaels, Batista come up,
but we have great rising stars like Seane, that's dam Punk,

(01:47:10):
et cetera. He mentioned Nexus, but that's a group he
didn't say way Barrett Ye and in Gabriel and you know,
I was just really disappointed because they've done a good
chat with that and to completely ignore it kind of
shows a sign to me that they're still not quite
ready to go all the way about their father than
they've ever been about pushing that new generation. But it's

(01:47:33):
still that was just really disappointed that they didn't take
the opportunity to say, but we got Kolfie Kingston and
Dalves Ziegler and Jack Swagger and Drew McIntyre on the
Blue brand. You know, that was a very waste.

Speaker 1 (01:47:46):
Opportunity in mind. Well, I'll say this, first of all,
I didn't hear the conference call. I'm going based on
James Caldwell and what he transcribed. Did you hear the
whole thing?

Speaker 4 (01:47:56):
I didn't.

Speaker 14 (01:47:56):
I was reading what James brow.

Speaker 1 (01:47:58):
Yeah, So I'm just just to be just so I
don't come too down too hard on him. He may
have had some phrases that maybe when in the direction
you're asking, and it just it was Jameston choose to
include it in the story. So I haven't listened to
it yet, So I'm as a preamble I'm saying that,
or as a disclaimer.

Speaker 2 (01:48:12):
That said.

Speaker 16 (01:48:15):
There.

Speaker 1 (01:48:15):
I think sometimes when business is down. You do want
to give stockholders, and this is what you're getting. I'm
like to say a reason to think there's hope. And
he did say the quote, we do know what we're doing,
and we know how to fix this problem. What I
think we're both looking for here is we know what
we're doing, and we've already taken steps to fix this problem.
And those steps are Shamus, Jack Swagger, the Miz cm Punk.

(01:48:39):
We are excited about this next generation of talent, and
we feel like we are in a better position now
than at any time in the last five ten years
when we look ahead six months or eighteen months in
terms of the type of core talent that we built.
And then you just say, I wish we would have
started on this maybe a year earlier, but we had
such a great core of wrestlers, our mind just wasn't there.

(01:49:00):
We've learned a lesson, but you know what, we really
are in good shape. It's just we got to get
through this summer and maybe this this this fall. You know,
that's not a perfect quote, maybe you could pick it apart,
but something along those lines that we're excited about what
we've done. It just hasn't quite you know, Uh, hasn't
quite what's the word bared fruit yet? Is that the word?
Is that the phrase?

Speaker 5 (01:49:20):
Sure?

Speaker 2 (01:49:20):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:49:21):
So so you know, yeah, I think I mean, I'm
not overly critical with WWE in terms of where I
think there'll be a year from now. I mean, Greg,
what do you what do you think of the emerging
talent in terms of Okay, what if all we have
to work with is who we have right now. Let's
say Undertaker on Triple HR are totally part timers because
they're just injury prone. You know, Jericho just said in
an interview a few days ago he thinks he's got

(01:49:43):
three four five years left in him. If Jericho, you know,
when he's a smart worker, he doesn't need to be
as athletic as he once was. He can be a
main event guy and you can have fresh matchups with
with him and mis and and and uh go to
drum Mackinsaw adult Sigler eventually, but Shamous against Jericho's There's
a lot of different magics with Jericho with heal her face.
So he's a veteran who they can lean on along

(01:50:04):
with Sena and Randy Orton, who who can lead the
promotion and be there for feuds with Jack Swager in
this new generation that ww tink of.

Speaker 15 (01:50:13):
The nice thing about TV lately has been triple h
the abs, triple as, the as the entertainer giving other
guys a chance to shine. There's almost kind of breath
of fresh air.

Speaker 5 (01:50:25):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:50:26):
You know.

Speaker 15 (01:50:26):
As for Vince's man and him handling this conference called.
Knowing what I do about Vince and having seen his
past interviews and I haven't heard a conference call, you know,
I've read the clothes like you have, I don't think
Vince is entirely comfortable handling the conference calls. Yeah, I
feel like maybe he's feels like he has to walk

(01:50:47):
on eggshells. And there's certain things because we've seen the
blustering Vincent man on interviews before, and we've heard him
on interviews before. You know, there's a man who likes
to pick his chest out and you know, to say
what he wants to say and no one to hold
him accountable in this atmosphere, I think he does a
lot to try and watch what he has to say,
and I don't think he particularly likes having to do that.

(01:51:07):
And I think that could be a reason why, you know,
he we can criticize him and look at what he
didn't say or something like that. I think he's so
focused on just you know, trying to not to see
the Elstern McMain character on these things that you know,
sometimes he may forget to mention something like this, and
you know, like you said, it's not something that we

(01:51:28):
should vilify him for or anything, but it would have
been nice if he would have would have acknowledged that
the new guys they have.

Speaker 1 (01:51:33):
Coming up, and it would be a morale boost too.
I mean imagine if Jack Swagger and the Miz.

Speaker 15 (01:51:37):
Yeah, but that's that's just again, that doesn't seem like
something Vince would do. I mean, he's a morale boose guy.

Speaker 1 (01:51:44):
Yeah, yeah, no, he's not. I mean he had even,
in fact, in a rare moment of introspection, vinsk Man
has said over the years, yeah, maybe he ought to
give you know, more pats on the back and left
kicks in the butt when it comes to his leadership style.
And and that's an example of it. But I mean
the fact is that if he did do it, I
think that that would motivate the guys to go, you know,
like Jim Ross today. You know, he put or not today,
but Tuesday night, I guess he put over the miss

(01:52:06):
and said he thinks he'll be in the main event
mix at WrestleMania next year. That's the type of thing
that is going to make miss you know, go even
harder and faster and work because he has his feeling
that if I work hard and keep on the course
I'm on, it's going to pay off. And you know,
missus life can change, not overnight, because this hasn't been
an overnight success. But there's a big difference between earning
between being a three four hundred thousand dollars a year
guy with a lot of road expenses and a short career.

(01:52:28):
You know when people say, oh, wrestlers make three hundred
thousand dollars, man, I'd be set for life if I
did that. Well, try you know, paying for hotels and
eating out every day and buying rental cars and having
gym memberships or paying to go to gym's all over
the place, and then having a career that's really short.
That is also, as you progress, usually full of injuries.
It's it's not a get rich quick scheme. There's a

(01:52:48):
big difference between if you're really you know, if you
really save your money. You're earning a good living, but
not set for life type living and making it to
a Wrestlemingia main event level. And miss is one of
those guys who's on that course where he can end
up with one of those single day paydays that's two, three, four,
five hundred thousand dollars for a few years in a row.
If he becomes one of those guys at kind of
a Jericho level and and be part of the seven

(01:53:11):
figure club. And that's what I mean, that's clearly what
motivates people to put aside that extra fishing trip or
hunting trip or trip to Europe or whatever that wrestlers
try to squeeze in on their rare off times and
just continue to focus on their career one hundred percent.
All right, let's go back to the phone lines. Ery
code four to one four. You're on the show. Please
state your name and where you're from.

Speaker 2 (01:53:29):
Heylvell. So I'm gonna walk you wis constant he level?

Speaker 1 (01:53:32):
What's up?

Speaker 16 (01:53:33):
Yeah, all of this day of what you guys said,
like you said, flips over the stars and you know,
putting them from the bottom of the ladder to the
top of the mountain.

Speaker 2 (01:53:41):
You know, he goes.

Speaker 16 (01:53:42):
That's one thing I can remember the life remember the
Stone call brit Art thing when he had him in
a strup shooter and he wouldn't tap out. Yep, that
was that was my prettiest a signing motile stone Hos career.

Speaker 1 (01:53:53):
I love I love those moments. I mean, that's it's
a good subject and I think part of what finsk
Man should be looking for are those career making moments.
You can't do them all the time, or they get
watered down and you can't force them when the fans
aren't ready, but when that circumstance presents itself and you
can have that moment, you know, and Brett Austen that
double term, I mean, that was an amazing moment and

(01:54:13):
certainly at top shelf moment. But yeah, that's something that
they should look for to bring those people to that
next level. Anytime you're watching WWE Raw or SmackDown or
AEW Dynamite in particular, send us an email if you've
got thoughts on the show or a topic you want
us to address or a question for us. Wade Keller
Podcast at Pwtorch dot com. Wadkeller Podcast at pewtorch dot com.

(01:54:39):
If there's anything else going on in pro wrestling that
you want us to address on our main podcast during
our mailbank segments, that same email applies Wade Keller podcast
at pwtorch dot com. We invite that interaction. Let us
know what you think of what we're saying, and let
us know what you want us to talk about and
ask us specific questions. Wade Keller Podcast at pw torch
dot com.

Speaker 2 (01:55:01):
Yeah, you know, I'm.

Speaker 16 (01:55:02):
Also Yeah, I had a question, Uh, why do you
think that's gonna play out? With his kine say, do
you think I'm mom few? Do you think it's gonna
be more or less where he ended up being the
villains against the Undertaker where he could undertake her out
because that was his brother and he got jealous him
looks up the right way taking Kate like that?

Speaker 1 (01:55:20):
Greg, what do you where do you think that's going?
And also what's the timing of where it's going. How
do you think that's gonna play out?

Speaker 2 (01:55:27):
Uh?

Speaker 15 (01:55:28):
My initial reaction is yeah, it's probably gonna be Kane
leads to uh Keen versus Undertaker when Undertaer comes back. Uh,
you know the initial proagnosis had Taker coming back at
SummerSlam and having Kane defend the title against him the
Summer Slam, But now that doesn't look as likely as
we've got Raymondsterio versus Kane at at SummerSlam, and we've

(01:55:50):
got to remember that Kine, I believe, especially Go Snackdown
has promised to show evidence that ray Missterio is the
one who took out Uh the Undertaker, or at least
mentioned that in his promo this past week on SmackDown. So,
I mean, who knows what that could lead to or
whether it's just keys delusions creeping up on him again.

(01:56:10):
But right now, I would have to say, I'll probably
put money on Teams being the one behind it. They
could always come.

Speaker 2 (01:56:16):
Up with the swervers.

Speaker 15 (01:56:16):
I think that's too predictable, but you know that would
seem to be the one that would make sense right
now to me from a storytelling perspective.

Speaker 1 (01:56:26):
You are listening to the PW Torch Live cast. I'm
Progressing Torch editor Way Keller, joined today by co host
Greg Parks, columnist for the Progressing Torch newsletter. If you
were interested in a PW Torch VIP membership, the praise
starts for a limited audio subscription at just five dollars
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at ten dollars a month. You can upgrade to a

(01:56:46):
print newsletter subscription. Also, full details are at PW torch
dot com slash go VIP. We've got hundreds of back
issues in PDF format and text format, a new Progressing
Torch newsletter every week featuring fine columnists such as Greg Parks,
who wrote this week great talk about your callum this week.

Speaker 15 (01:57:04):
Yeah, there's a new wrestling promotion, a lot of rumors
behind it, not much as known right now. It's out
of Florida, signing some big names to contracts that are
supposed to be kept secret, but a couple of names
that come out, including booker t Vader, Vader's Sun Jesse White,
and they are rubored to have interest in some Piana guys,

(01:57:26):
some r oh guys. Yeah. The offering better deals better uh,
not only money wise and contracts, but benefits. Yeah, something
that TNA w W even doesn't really really offer. So
that's something to keep an eye on. You know, we've
seen upstart promotions like this before that haven't gotten very far,
but this one is definitely worth keeping your eye on

(01:57:48):
in the coming months, especially into the fall.

Speaker 1 (01:57:50):
There's some real top shelf writing and reporting in the
progressing Torch Newsletterary week. You can uh with a subscription
get our easy in format, which is a rise in
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fits perfectly on your laptop, computer screen or iPad so
that you don't have to scroll when you read it.
It's a cool new thing that we just started a
couple of months ago, and we also have over seventy

(01:58:12):
five audio shows that are VIP exclusive every month, plus
my new daily weight Keller VIP blog that I've been doing.
Just started doing that every day, and I'm not sure
I'll do it every single day, but so far we've
done it every day for about ten twelve days now
and that is an exclusive. And then also after every
blog entry, VIP members respond and then I respond to them,

(01:58:32):
so we have a good back and forth dialogue going
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Future's had a number of people sign up for VP subscriptions.
Marking thatdown is one of the main reasons they became members,
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(01:58:53):
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that's the place to go is PW torch dot com,
slash go vtip. All right, Oh quick plug, Big UFC

(01:59:18):
show on Saturday night, Chill sn and challenging Anderson Silva.
I am looking forward to that one. Chill Son and
a possible future pro wrestler, by the way, he's thought
about it before. He's got great amateur credentials and he
is he would be promo with the year if if
he was in the right structure, if the promotion let
him go. He is an incredible, incredible talker, and so

(01:59:41):
we'll be covering that live at our sister site, MMA
Torch dot com on Saturday night, I'll be doing a
live blog during the pay per view. Jamie Pennock will
be doing a great comprehensive live report with analysis, ramifications,
putting everything in perspective whether you're an expert fan or
a novice, so'll be sure to check out MMA torch
dot com on Saturday night for the full live report,
and also here at blog Talk Radio. Jamie Penick and

(02:00:03):
Matt Telke host a Tuesday night MMA Torch Live Cats
just like this one. It's ninety minutes once a week
at nine o'clock Eastern, eight o'clock Central. It's a new
time slot this week. It used to be on Sunday
afternoons and they just started it in part and anticipation
of football season, where our audience level might have dropped
off if we were going head up against NFL games.
So now it's a Tuesday night show just started this week.

(02:00:24):
You can go into the archives and listen to it.
They'll be talking about Sunday nights USC on Versus Show
with John Jones in the main event, and of course
previewing this Saturday's USC pay per view, running down the
whole lineup with a particular focus on the top matches.
Just do a search in blogcock Radio for MMA Torch
or just go directly to it. It is blog talk
radio dot com slash MMA Torch. It's pretty easy. And

(02:00:47):
of course our sister website has articles up right now
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So we hope you will lot Shilton support for MMA
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(02:01:07):
PW torch dot com, it is customized for virtually all smartphones.
Just log on to PW torch dot com or MMA
toorch dot com on your phone's browser to visit a
custom mobile friendly site. Back to the phone lines. Lots
of lots of subjects so far and a lot more
to come. Let's go to aera code four oh five
and see what's next. Please state your name and what
and where you're from. Four oh I want to form five.

(02:01:31):
Sorry about that, Jonathan, I just had you on hold
let's go to air code five to nine instead five
on nine. Thanks for calling. What's your name?

Speaker 2 (02:01:40):
Hey, it's Jared and Kimmelin Washington.

Speaker 1 (02:01:42):
Hey, Jared, good here for me.

Speaker 8 (02:01:43):
What's up?

Speaker 1 (02:01:44):
I had two topics here. We're know we've talked about
the pay per views a lot.

Speaker 2 (02:01:47):
Today, So I'll just say, I know you say it's
not right WDT necessarily cater to like their more hard
quartered internet fans with these pay per views numbers sliding.
I mean, don't think it'll realize that a lot of
their hardcore fate based such as myself, doesn't get into
these gimmicky style pay per views.

Speaker 1 (02:02:04):
You know, that's a good point. You know, at what point,
I mean, it's a catch twenty two? Do you start
catering to the smaller number of hardcore fans just to
retain them at the in your own mind, at least
as a promoter, at the expense of getting up to
three four hundred thousand buys again for some of these
off rand pay per views they settle for two fifty
or two eighty at this point, or do you say, no,

(02:02:24):
let's just protect what we have and not let it
get any worse. If you think that's going to turn people.
It's a tough question, Greg, what do you think what
is the bottom line change that you think ww should
make based on these numbers?

Speaker 2 (02:02:36):
Is there?

Speaker 1 (02:02:37):
Should they be thinking more about hardcore fans and kind
of assume the mainstream fans, the more casual fans would
would come along for the ride if they want that direction.

Speaker 15 (02:02:45):
I feel like w W has the attitude of to
grow their business and to keep growing, they've got to
help the casual fans. They have the feeling that the
hardcore fans will buy anything they put out there, so
why cater to them? And I think that's fall pyece
to a certain extent, because even hardcore fans can turn
their back and say, you know what, I've had enough
of this this is you know, especially the PG direction
with a lot of complaints from hardcore fans, you know,

(02:03:08):
I think that has turned off a lot of fans.
But they are also trying to grow their business by
getting these fans who wouldn't normally watch wrestling or who
are new to the sport, and perhaps they feel that
they need to work in these gimmicks to to really
hook them as a fan. Because the old stand by

(02:03:29):
Raffle and one on one matches. You know that's that's
not interesting enough to hook the casual fan, because if
it was, they need stand already. So I think there
is a feeling, and I think there's a pressure within
WWE to come up with a new and exciting concept
that's really going to continue to grow their business. And
I think hardcore fans are left by the wayside with

(02:03:51):
the attitude that you know they're hardcore fans, they'll watch
no matter what was put out.

Speaker 1 (02:03:56):
I think I've got my my VIP blogged subject for
the day, Jared. I think I'm going to write about
my checklist of things if i'm WWE that I would
consider to do to reverse this trend. And I'm not
even sure what my answer to you is going to
be in full, although I think it won't hurt Thatt
to go back to focusing as we talked about on singles.

(02:04:16):
Matches for world titles really stress the value the world title,
and I always think there's value in tag teams, in
take team wrestling, and upping the perceived value of the
depth of the cards. I think ultimately you're going to
sell the events on the main event, but I think
when people buy a show and they enjoy start to
finish Because every match or more the matches seem important,
They're more likely to have that intangible feeling of satisfaction

(02:04:39):
for their purchase and come back for more. And I
think part of that is having take team titles that
mean something and take team feuds and take teams that
you care about, you want to see win or lose.
And part of it is just I grew up in
a watching the AWA where take team wrestling was a
very integral part of the promotion, and I know that
drew me to the arena. I knew that made me
bag harder to get to go to the event when

(02:04:59):
I was eleven, twelve, thirteen years old. And I also
watched the NWA with the Rock and Roll Express and
the Midnight Express and even in the early nineties with
a Midnight Express and the Southern Boys. And obviously I
saw the emergence first hand of the Road Warriors in
the AWA pick up where Holkogan left off after he left,
and they were the headline act for a while and
that worked. And I think that's one area where WWE

(02:05:20):
could look and say, well, how do we It's a
shock absorber in a sense when somebody when your top
stars go down like Undertaker Triple Ah. If you have
a vigrant strong tradition of promoting tag teams, you can
at least have the card on paper look like it's
got two or three top matches that are worth buying,
and one of them is the tag team title match,
because you've created a sense of importance in history and

(02:05:42):
legacy to those belts and have a relatively deep roster
of maybe five to six teams that have a history
and you care to see where their career goes carried
back to you. Any follow up, Yeah, I got another topel.

Speaker 2 (02:05:55):
I was just gonna say, I think that kind of
simple booking can a fill to a hardcore fan and
the casual. It's pretty I guess my pop because it's
still having actually to do with the cash audience on
their foot. I think one of teenag's major problems. I
don't know how they could ever overcome this is simply
put back in the day with WW and WWE both
being pretty relatively similar in terms of popularity of their

(02:06:19):
production value, just the way they looked was relatively the same.
I mean, I know a lot of casual fans who
tena made book well, they may have great athletes, but
the fact that you look at the difference just on
a television standpoint between WWE and TENA, and there's a
stark difference, and they say, well, this looks small and
dingy compared to WE. I'm gonna flip over here, as
a French casual fan with I think I've seen that firsthand.

Speaker 1 (02:06:41):
Yeah, I mean, WW filth these big buildings and they've
got the huge pyro and it's just it is hard
to compete. And I'm as someone who runs my own
business and I look at what I've done with the
website for the ten ten years plus that it's been around.
You know, I can't compete with ESPN dot com when
it comes to their resources, you know, or the top

(02:07:02):
top top news sites. You know, I've done my best
over the years, and I think I've kept up pretty well.
But I synthesize having been in that position in that standpoint,
or look back in the nineties with my newsletter and
trying to compete with you know what Time magazine has
with all the glossy pages. But TNA is the underdot
They don't have those resources. So I kind of have
a soft spot for that and maybe I'm too sympathetic
to the fact that I think on a limited budget

(02:07:22):
they've done a really good job, having good lighting, good
camera work, sometimes bad directing and lazy directing, and I
think they've improved this year. I think Eric Bischoff brought
some good ideas in different camera angles and different perspectives,
and that little building, that impact zone, they make it
look a lot bigger than it is. I think, you know,
by moving almost to all the fans to one side
of the building so the stands go up higher, is

(02:07:43):
a huge improvement over what it used to be before
they did that. So that said, I'm sympathetic to that.
It's somewhat on a professional level. It doesn't change, so
I'm sympathetic to that, but it does unchange the fact
that there's still a huge gap. And you're totally right here.
The average fan instantly looks at Kurt Angler Hokoke and
walk into the ring at the impact zone, and it

(02:08:04):
doesn't look nearly like as big of a deal as WWE.
But I don't know that going to a bigger arena
is the answer, because it's going to be two thirds
or three fourths or ninety percent empty. They're not gonna
be able to compete with WWE on that level. My
answer has always been completely changed the look to the
impact zone and don't look like a miniature version of
a WWE arena, but go with a totally different approach.

(02:08:25):
Don't have the big stage, have the wrestlers come in
maybe like USC fighters do, have a spotlight on them
and say walk to the ring, change the change it
so it doesn't look like you're a lesser version of WWE.
But you've made the conscious choice to go a completely
different direction. Why compete on a level with WWE where
you can't win, you can only look respectable yet inferior.
Why not try a completely different approach? And I don't

(02:08:47):
even know that that's crossed their minded to today or
that they've seriously given it at any thought, but I
think that would eliminate that because it would take them
out of being compared to WWE.

Speaker 6 (02:08:55):
Great.

Speaker 1 (02:08:56):
How big of a factor have you do you think
personally and from your experience with your friends, is the
look of TNA and their production values.

Speaker 15 (02:09:02):
Well, the most annoying thing to me is the obvious
edits and cuts. And you know, just as much as
TEENA jams onto their show. You kind of wonder how
much of that is avoidable because they're always you know,
cutting from one thing to the other, and there's so
much going on as there there almost needs to be
those kinds of edits. And I think another thing is,
if you really need that many edits, I mean, tighten

(02:09:24):
up your show when you tape it. I mean, you know,
you know how much time you have to air, you know,
don't let these guys meander and go off topic and
try and keep mind a fighter leash or something like that.
But if production values, I'm not really big on harping
against TNA's production values. I think in the long run,
that's one of the least of their problems. But if

(02:09:45):
you look at it and people are complaining about it,
I mean, they've got David Sahati who works for years
in WWE. They've got Keith Mitchell who worked for years
in WTW.

Speaker 1 (02:09:53):
They kind of upset each other. Greg working in production yea,
and Mitchell is one of the problems, and they kind
of like, well.

Speaker 15 (02:10:01):
You think you think of how ww made their show
looks different from WWE, and how good WWE is a production.
And it's the point where you don't even think about it,
and they have these two guys working in TNA and Productions,
and to have it have their production values at a
level where it is being brought up here and elsewhere
as something of a problem for their shows, it just

(02:10:22):
is kind of surprising. I guess well.

Speaker 1 (02:10:24):
In my five hour interview with Eric Fishoff, one of
the things we went in depth on is teenage production values,
and this was done late last year, before he was
affiliated with TNA or even anticipated that there was a
good chance he would be. And he said he thought,
having watched TNA off and on not consistently, that he
thought they did a nice job with the budget that
they had and the structure that they had, because he
had been in that studio setting. He was the one

(02:10:45):
who innovated it. He started it by moving WW to
the Disney studio setup back in the day, and it's
way way better than it was back then, and I
think he brought more to it than even more to
it this year. I think he and Jason Hervey have
done some nice things so you can make it look good,
But Jared, I think you're still right. In the end,
they're still trying to make themselves look as much like

(02:11:07):
WWE or the old WW as they can, and they
don't have Turner money, they don't have Time Warner money
behind them, or the history of WW to draw on
some of these buildings.

Speaker 22 (02:11:22):
I'm Kelly Wells, host of PWT Talks NXT, the longest
running NXT podcast Anywhere. Join me along with Nate Lindberg,
Bruce Lee, Hazelwood and special guests live every Tuesday night,
just minutes after NXT, where we cover the good, the bad,
and the ugly on the way to becoming a star
in WWE. Check us out live on YouTube or stream

(02:11:42):
later wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 1 (02:11:52):
Jared, any closing class from you, No, I was gonna say,
I'll just leave this and you can keep that hold.

Speaker 2 (02:11:58):
The ironic part of our same person who made a
comment about it looking my friends who made it looking
looking back, comparisons of it to be I took into
a live t and A event. It's the best wrestling
the team live ever.

Speaker 1 (02:12:09):
So yeah, that means we hear that all the time.
People go to people who don't even like TNA, they
just like pro wrestling and they want to see these,
you know, these wrestlers. Whether they're going to see AJ styles,
or they're going to see Kurt Angle or whatever. I mean.
They want to see the stars in person. They know
they're going to get up, you know, closer look at them,
and they love the show. And that's one of the
things to keep an eye on. And it's it's not
as on the radar right now. We'll talk about a

(02:12:30):
lot more next week. Is this Thursday that The Impact
coming up a week from tonight, the whole f and
show version of it, that's kind of a pay per
view on Spike. That's going to be interesting in a
lot of ways. Esthetically, how does it turn out, what
are the reviews, what's the Internet reaction, and in a
big way, what what does it do ratings? Lise? Does
it build? Does the audience build throughout the show? Because

(02:12:52):
that's going to be closer to a house show on
television which gets good reviews than what you know, Russo
and Gang usually put together on TV. A very different
lost me an interesting test. All right, let's move on
to the next phone call, Eric code five to five nine.
Thanks for calling. Please state you name and where you're from.

Speaker 7 (02:13:08):
Hey guys, this is a Steve from California.

Speaker 1 (02:13:10):
Hey Steve, how you doing? Oh? I'm not still got
pretty good what's up?

Speaker 16 (02:13:13):
That's right?

Speaker 1 (02:13:14):
Go ahead?

Speaker 6 (02:13:15):
Going back to you, Uh, just real quick, something you
said about the roster and it takes three years to
make stars. I was looking at the WrestleMania lineups, you know,
the rosters from ninety two to ninety five. If you
just want to research it and look it up, they
there's basically.

Speaker 15 (02:13:31):
A huge changing of the guard.

Speaker 6 (02:13:33):
And you know WDE has been in this predicament before
and they have overcame it now onto what I called
in for I going back to NXC this last week,
I didn't really dig the fact that the miss no
sell a lot of Michael mcgillicutty's moves. I mean, he's

(02:13:53):
a bigger guy and he's just no sell no sold
him like the whole time, and that makes Michael McGillicutty
look week. I mean, I know miss is getting a
big push right now that you don't have to make
somebody look completely weak to do it.

Speaker 1 (02:14:07):
Greg, what'd you think of that?

Speaker 3 (02:14:09):
Well?

Speaker 15 (02:14:09):
First of all, I I hate to even go back
and think about this past week n next see, because
every time I do, I just figure out that opening
segment that I had to sit through and cover for
the torch, and I was like, oh, it was it
was torture having to sit through that. So, uh, that's
what I think I'm wanted to hear.

Speaker 1 (02:14:26):
This past week, Greg, Greg, I hate to trup, but
we have a policy here that we try not to
associate our brand name with the word torture too. I'm sorry.

Speaker 15 (02:14:35):
I figured that was just too good a pun to
sass up.

Speaker 1 (02:14:37):
So I'm just kidding.

Speaker 9 (02:14:40):
I I didn't notice it actually that much.

Speaker 15 (02:14:43):
And I watched that match fights once live and once
when my roommate came back and watched it on DVR
the next day, and I didn't really notice it that
all that much. I did think that, you know, the
miss we never remember what the mis doubt was in
his early in WWE, and I don't know that he's
the kind of guy to do this, but there may be.

(02:15:04):
For some guys in the wrestling business, there's a sense
of Okay, this is the kind of stuff I had
to go through when I was a rookie and just learning.
So this is the stuff now that I'm a star,
and now that I'm pretty much on the brink of
a world championship. This is what you guys are gonna
have to go through to you know, to earn your stripe,
so to speak. So I don't know if there's a
bit of that mentality coming from the MI in a

(02:15:25):
situation like that, or if you know, he was directed
by the agents or whoever to you know, to kind
of shake off and not sell whole lot of his stuff.
I don't know, you know what the purpose behind that
would be because it wasn't really mentioned by the announcers
or hit home by anyone, So I guess I didn't
notice it. But it's interesting that you do bring that up,
and then that you did notice that that's something to

(02:15:47):
keep an eye on for his future interactions between these rookies.

Speaker 6 (02:15:51):
Steve, any other follow up, Yeah, I mean, storyline wise, mcgillicad,
he had a perfect record and he was undefeated and
he didn't even have a near fall. That was believable
in that matches helped boost that in any way. And
then to one more thing, is it too soon for
the w W to bring back Daniel Bryan for the
to fill in one of the open spots left by Chris.

Speaker 2 (02:16:11):
Jericho or Edge.

Speaker 1 (02:16:14):
Good question, No, I mean they can bring him back
whenever they want. I mean, obviously, you know, for the
right price, he'll come back. I haven't heard. I haven't
heard anything conflicting with that. He got enough singles pretty
early on with his release that if not everybody was
in favor of this, it's they felt like they were
forced to do it. They weren't happy with them. I mean,
he was warned not to say certain things on the mic,

(02:16:34):
and it wasn't like the first the first Straw that
he that that he did what he did, and and
you know, so it's not like he's totally not not
to blame for what happened, but he he would be
really an interesting insert into this match. And I'm glad
that Raw's live on Monday. And obviously Brett Hard I

(02:16:55):
think is going to be a big part of the
next chapter in the final push to Summer SLIGN. What
is Brett Hard say to Rally the troops? Does he
bring somebody else into the team, I mean, bringing Tyson
Kidd and David R. Smith ont of the team to
fill the spots. If that's what they do, obviously it's
gonna get nobody excited about it. Daniel Bryan people would
obviously pop for so I think it's an interesting idea.
His non compete isn't up yet, so WW doesn't have

(02:17:16):
that sense of urgency that he's going to go sign
with with, you know, some new group out Afford or
TNA or anything like that. But yeah, I don't know, Greg,
what do you think of the possibility of that happening
and the odds of it happening as soon as Monday?

Speaker 15 (02:17:28):
Well, for me, soon enough to bring him back would
have been like the week after because I was you know,
obviously I wanted to see him rest and see him
get that exposure and really perform on WWE. So you know,
I was the one who you know, understood where WWE
is coming from, but hoped he came back as soon
as possible. So to me, you know, anytime they want

(02:17:50):
to bring him back is welcome for me. From WWE's
point of view, they certainly want to keep him off
TV and off contract law long enough to head off
any future things that might happen with the wrestlers who
go off scripts or you know, to kind of reinforce
the idea that hey, we are PG and there will

(02:18:11):
be punishment for it. So you know that WW has
to weigh that with the fact that you know, bringing
him back in this situation would be near perfect, I mean,
a perfect fit for so many reasons. With the storyline
the way it is and how.

Speaker 16 (02:18:25):
He was quote unquote kicked out of Nexus.

Speaker 15 (02:18:28):
By Wade Barrett.

Speaker 16 (02:18:30):
He would just sit right in with twwe.

Speaker 15 (02:18:33):
But you know, whether they feel that they need to
keep him off TV longer than that or not, and
that's something that only they can answer.

Speaker 1 (02:18:40):
Well, our Hits and Misses columnist John Mazera at PW
torch dot com. You know he does. Here's the good,
here's the bat, here's the hits, here's the missus. For
each of the w W shows during the week, NXT
had two misses, the kissing contest and the wrestling, and
the hits were none. He said, there wasn't anything to
like enough on NXT to give it a hit. So,
you know, it's just one of those shows that's that.

(02:19:02):
You know, the cliche is it's hit or miss, Well,
it's usually miss. It's really been a disappointing execution of
the concept. As far as Dan Brian Daniel coming back
or Daniel Bryan excuse me, Michael Cole's reaction to that
would be fun, you know, it'd be fun to see
with Michael cole Go. No, no, if if if Brett
brought him back, Steve any closing comments for you, No,

(02:19:22):
that'll do it great. Thanks for your call. I appreciate it.
By the way, I'm putting everybody on hold after your call,
so if if you're listening on the phone and want
to say, you don't have to request that, because that's
just kind of my policy and I think James does
the same thing.

Speaker 16 (02:19:34):
So uh.

Speaker 1 (02:19:35):
Anyway, we are down to the final five minutes. We've
got two people on holding. You might get to a
third call if you want to call the number six
four six seven two way. Don't forget. We're on iTunes.
You can subscribe by just doing a search in iTunes
for PW Torch and subscribe to the live cast. While
you're at it. You can subscribe to the MMA Torch
Live cast if you're into MMA, and you can also
follow us on Twitter at that Twitter dot com slash

(02:19:57):
MMA excuse me, Twitter dot com slash PW Livecast, and
we're also on Facebook, Facebook dot com slash tw Torch
Live Cast. I am Wade Keller, joined today by torchs
columnist Greg Parks, and we are in the home stretch
of the live show. We'll be sticking around for a
few minutes afterwards to do the VIP after show, So
for those of you listening to us on delay in
the PW Torch VIP section, please stay tuned and hold

(02:20:19):
on for that. All right, aery code nine one zero,
Thanks for holding. Please state your name and where you're from.

Speaker 2 (02:20:26):
Nine one oh.

Speaker 1 (02:20:29):
If somebody fell it sleep, they're on hold so long.
All right, now we're down a one collar, so if
you want to get on hold, you can certainly do that.
And uh, let's go to aery code nine one two.
Please state your name and where you're from.

Speaker 13 (02:20:42):
Marcus from.

Speaker 1 (02:20:44):
Do you say? What's your name? I'm sorry and catch it, hey, Marcus, Yeah,
speak up a little bit if you can. Your connection
is a little tough.

Speaker 2 (02:20:53):
Get.

Speaker 13 (02:20:54):
I got a as a Christian regarding the AWL.

Speaker 16 (02:20:58):
I know this.

Speaker 2 (02:20:59):
I've seen a classic Layers and Disco had.

Speaker 16 (02:21:02):
A ninja bodyguard with him.

Speaker 13 (02:21:04):
I was just trying to find out the name of him.

Speaker 1 (02:21:06):
And who was under the mask he started. Originally it
was Wayouma Go from Japan, and then it became Steve
Bo Steve ol Sanowski, a long time kind of jobber
to the stars in the A w A. And they
threw him in that outfit because well he was local
and so was Larry, so it was a way to
do that. But it started off as as an actual

(02:21:28):
Japanese wrestler, Ryumacgough, who was wasn't a real remarkable star
in Japan, but it was actually him, and that's where
the name Ninja Go came from. Anything else, Marcus, I
got one, sure, go ahead?

Speaker 13 (02:21:40):
Who owns who owns the A W A? The years
on ESPs, because I'm assuming the w W does this.

Speaker 1 (02:21:49):
Gosh, that's a heck of a question. I'm not Yeah,
you know, I should know that if this is a
actually Brian Hoops is going to be on the show
tomorrow with James Collins, Well it's probably gonna know the
answer to this.

Speaker 2 (02:22:02):
Brian.

Speaker 1 (02:22:03):
We expect you tomorrow to have this definitive answer, because
I should know that. I mean, obviously WWE o's a
ton of vintage ABA footage, but let's stuff bearing on classics.
I wonder if that's co owned or there's a break there,
you know.

Speaker 15 (02:22:14):
I feel like I read something like this in the
vip forum on w first dot com and I'm I'm
on there now trying to figure out what section was
in because I feel like somebody out to ask that question?
Uh that how can ESPN? You know air a w
A shows at w W owns a w A s
library and I I'm looking for it now but I

(02:22:36):
can't remember what's going was close?

Speaker 1 (02:22:39):
Well, jump in, jump in if you do find it.
And Bryan Hoops, who's the eight longtime ABA fan like me,
he'll be on tomorrow and he'd love to talk a
w A as I usually do too. Marcus, thanks for
your question. Nine one oh is hopefully awake and back
nine one oh? How you doing?

Speaker 2 (02:22:55):
Oh yeah, listen, why y'all doing good? Well?

Speaker 1 (02:22:57):
What's going on?

Speaker 2 (02:22:59):
Okay?

Speaker 3 (02:23:00):
Yeah, Well I've got a question.

Speaker 2 (02:23:01):
Okay, Well, Kurt handed couldn't have become.

Speaker 3 (02:23:04):
A champion and the WWM back in the day because
it's because he was a world shipping a big wave
back in the day.

Speaker 1 (02:23:10):
Is that your only question? If you want to throw
them both, if you got another one throw at Adison's
for the final minutes here, that's a question. That's it, Okay,
Kurt Henning And we get this question a lot. I
think I just answered it last week too, Hannibal.

Speaker 2 (02:23:22):
But he.

Speaker 1 (02:23:24):
He was just part of an era where he was
they had the lead babyface uh champion, and it just
wasn't living This is what I said last week. Living
through that era, there was never a point where we
said Kurt should be the champion. Now you look back
and you say, he was so good and everybody gets
the title rain Now anybody who's at his level second.

(02:23:46):
That's how it is now. It wasn't like that back then.
You know, a lot of guys who were really good
didn't ever get a world title reign. It wasn't like
handed out like Candy so and then and then he
ended up having some issues with you know, he drank
a lot, and obviously there were drug issues in his life.
And then he ended up getting hurt with a back
injury that derailed things. He became a manager and a
color commentator, which obviously threw off the timeline. I think

(02:24:07):
had Kurt stayed healthy, lived a clean life, stayed healthy,
really brought it to work every day and dedicated himself
to his job. Like a lot of the guys who
got a heap in, he would have ended up with
the world title reign sometime. You know, in that Brett
Hart era, when he was in the Sean Michaels era
before the emergence of Steve Austin and the Rock, and
Kurt was so super talented. It would have been really

(02:24:29):
cool to see Kurt Handing around as a top heel
and have a chance to bet with a Rock and
Steve Bustin. I mean, that's something that as a wrestling
fan who grew up seeing Kurt Handing emerge as a
great star in the eighties and to have been cheated
out of that those matches, I mean, it's too bad
that it worked out the way he did with his
back injury and the way that his career went. And
you know, by the time he got to WW I mean,

(02:24:50):
he was just like a lot of the guys, just
cashing in on a very very busy roster full of
way too many stars. Greg Parks, thanks for joining me again.
Thanks to all the callers VIP members, Stay tuned. Greg
and I are going to stick around and talk about
a few other subject until tomorrow. Wait Keller, i'd we
have a great park signing off. Thanks for downloading today's show.

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Speaker 3 (02:26:05):
Thank you for using blog talk radios.

Speaker 1 (02:26:07):
Goodbye, rig How about that Kurt Hanning question. Do you
have anything to add to that since I know I
kind of had answered it twice now in the last
week or so.

Speaker 15 (02:26:16):
Yeah, I mean you pretty much hit on it. You know,
you were around for his a w A run, whereas
I only got to see a secondhand via DVD's and such. So,
I mean, you know when he was in the WWF.
You know, just based on his entering work, he could
make a case for him being champion but like you said,
injuries issues, personal issues kind of got in the way.

(02:26:38):
And looking back on it, he's one of the guys,
along with Teddy Basis, who you kind of wish had
to run as the championterest to see how they would
do with it, and you know, I mean both of them,
I'm sure would have some great interviews to go along
with it too as well, some good interering works. So
you know, it's kind of disappointing, but it was a
time when, you know, not everyone and their brother got
the championship and that's and that's another issue today that

(02:27:02):
we have and you kind of mentioned it as far
as the pay per view is making them more important,
it's making the title more important and certainly have passed
around over the loss of these days would be nice.
I mean, there are some ways when you you can't
even tell when johnsonor has the title of in one
he doesn't based on his interview because he cuts the
same interview whether he does have it or he doesn't.
He doesn't seem to mind not having it, but you

(02:27:22):
know it's also it's just just some kind of thing
that he has to carry around when he does have it,
So you know, it would be nice as things return
to that way. But you know, and in twenty years
down the roader, we could say, wow, who is twenty ten?
You know, who on the roster should have had a
world pedler run that never really had the opportunity.

Speaker 1 (02:27:41):
What do you think about Jim Ross's comment about Miss
being in the main event mixed mark it down for
WrestleMania twenty seven. Do you see with what Miss is
doing lately that he's gonna be maybe in one of
those top three or four matches. It's not even a
world title match.

Speaker 15 (02:27:57):
Yeah, I could see it. You know, it's so much
can happen between now and then, it's kind of hard
to decide. I mean, in a title national maybe not.
But I certainly think as far as being near the
top of the card, I think he certainly could. His

(02:28:19):
entering work is getting there. It's not quite there yet
to really have a three and a half four star match,
but you know, with the right opponent he could and
his character. He's obviously very comfortable with his character because
it's just an extension of himself, and that's you know
what a lot of us say is the best character

(02:28:41):
for these guys to play is someone who is just
you know themselves with the volume turned up, and you'll
even see hear rustlers say that too. So the character
part he has down, and he's gotten a lot more series,
which to me is a huge indicator of him being
more of a main event player in WW directing him
to do so because they have plans that start in
the main event. So it's certainly a good sign for

(02:29:04):
management that he's taken a new tone with him as well.

Speaker 1 (02:29:08):
Shifting gears to Sunday's pay per view TNA Hardcore Justice.
What is there a star a wrestler out there that
could make a difference in terms of this by rate
who used to be on the ECW roster that hasn't
been an integral part of the storyline so far that
NA should have worked harder to get into the mix.
I mean, a lot of the guys either unavailable or

(02:29:29):
aren't alive or aren't able to wrestle anymore. But is
there anybody who jumps out on the lineup who should
have been a bigger part.

Speaker 7 (02:29:34):
Of this.

Speaker 15 (02:29:36):
For me personally, No, you know, we've been to this
ECW revival in WWE, and I feel like I certainly
got all that ECW nostalgia out of my system then,
So I think you're going to see a lot of
people tune in just for the curiosity packer. This isn't
going to be a pay per view where people are

(02:29:57):
going to be tuning in to see or a star class.
Can you know, work right out the wazoo so to speak.
You know, Jerry Lynn RVD could probably still be a
pretty good match. They can you know, work unrestrained. But
other than that, I don't see anyone who would come
in and just you know, blow me away with either

(02:30:18):
you know, the shape they're in or a match or
an interview or anything like that. It's just not out there,
and partly because of how long it's been since ECW
was at his peak. And you guys, no matter how
long of a run they have or bound to wear down.
And that's what happened if they weren't worn down at
the time they were in ECW, which is why they
were in ECW and not int WW or WCW.

Speaker 2 (02:30:41):
So it's it's tough really to say.

Speaker 15 (02:30:43):
There's nobody that I would say, for me, would need
to be on that show to really make it.

Speaker 1 (02:30:51):
If you were to read book from scratch, and give
them maybe a couple extra weeks too to make this work.
Is there anything TNA could learn from what they've done
with Nexus? Because Nexus has been matched as an invading
group against established WWE stars John Cena, you know, Jericho
and Edge to a certain extent obviously in and out

(02:31:13):
of that mix. But would would there have been a
way to take ECW and instead of making it yet
another revival nostalgia band is Back Together type show, would
there have been a way to do this and have ECW,
either as babyfaces or heels, come in as a group,
but be matched now on a TNA pay per view
hardcore justice against TNA wrestlers. Because one thing that I

(02:31:36):
think one opportunity they might have missed out on, and
I'm not saying it's a better approach, but it's another
approach is TNA has a lot of hardcore wrestlers who
have done hardcore style matches. They could have done something
where it's old school ECW against new school TNA and
in some hardcore style matches to see who's you know,
can the ECW originals battle you know, the abyss types

(02:31:59):
and and then there would be the question mark up
which side would team three D be on uh Team
three D b on. Oh that sounds weird. I get
amused by weird things sometimes, so as you know with
the blogtok oh yeah sure. So anyway, the the the
it just seems like there's just something missing from that.

Speaker 3 (02:32:17):
They're there.

Speaker 1 (02:32:17):
I mean, clearly, it's it's a it's it's a legitimate
approach to take if you're going to do this at all,
which is, don't announce a lot of matches and just
hope ECW fans tune in to see what happens. Because
one night's fan was so good. Maybe they can, you know,
make that happen again. But would it have been better
to go with a different approach and integrate ECW as
a faction fighting either a group of ten A baby
faces or heels and sometimes be the hard corpuss hardcore thing.

Speaker 15 (02:32:38):
I said, Well, it certainly was odd the first show
that came that they made their presence known physically in
the ring, where Jasey Carter said that she invited them
because everybody was expecting them to come as in an
invading faction and be the day that a bish was
talking about, uh. The trouble with that, and I think

(02:32:58):
that would have been a way to go the new,
the extreme guys against TNA. It's not for no other
reason than to get some TNA guys on the pay
per view. But the problem with that is this sounds
like it's become a really short term angle. And you know,
if they plan it's the short term with and I'm

(02:33:20):
talking just the pay per view and maybe instead of
tapings or two afterwards, it would have been hard to
build a feud between the two fashions that people would
get interested about, knowing that it would only last maybe
four weeks the most. They could use them, you know,

(02:33:41):
to build out the pay per view and whatnot. But
then you run the risk of exposing the ECW guys
as old and worn down against you know, TNA guys
like Matt Morgan or Hernandez were in relatively great shape
compared to the ECW guys, And you sit there looking
at them across the r from each other and saying,
why is this a battle? You know, CNA?

Speaker 18 (02:34:01):
What the four of these guys?

Speaker 16 (02:34:02):
So maybe having an ECW guys.

Speaker 15 (02:34:05):
Sort of on their own, doing their own thing is
the best way to do it, especially if they are
doing it for a short term. Pop in ratings or
buy rate or what have you that CNA is thinking of.
So I think the way they've got it right now,
as many issues as there are with it, is probably
better for the short terms and working have excuse well.

Speaker 1 (02:34:28):
And that is the thing.

Speaker 7 (02:34:29):
I mean.

Speaker 1 (02:34:29):
We're talking about Tommy Dreamer, Rhino, Raven, Stevie Richards, Mick Foley.
I mean, when you start taking away the whole aura
of ECW and you break it down into its parts,
it's pretty sad, you know. I mean because first of all,
other than Dreamer, they've all been part of TNA for
such a long time. And I think, you know, a

(02:34:50):
really good point was made by Bruce, which is by
having these guys just instantly flip over to ECW, it
says that really a lot of what they've done in
TNA doesn't matter. That the years that Raven spent in TNA,
and he was a big part of TNA, especially in
the formative you know, pay per view only years he had,
he was a centerpiece of that promotion for longer. Probably

(02:35:11):
time wise, I'd have looked at the calendar, but I've
bet I bet Raven was headlined more TNA shows than
he headlined ECW shows on a pay per view level
for sure.

Speaker 15 (02:35:20):
And what's the other thing is the other thing is
you've got you know, Stevie Richards, who we last saw
a few months ago at Doctor Ceede and Rhino coming
in and has on commentary saying, you know, d doesn't
even work the TNA, and I'm like, this is when
you know, these guys were just on TV two months
ago and TNA went and when did this happened that
they don't work for them now? It's it was kind

(02:35:40):
of amusing to me to think of, you know, and
dis playing some of them, like Rhino, you almost do
things them more as TNA wrestlers than ECW wrestlers. So
you know, it's you mentioned the aura of ECW, and
with every show that they do like this, the aura
is kind of uh cracked away a little bit because

(02:36:02):
you do see these guys who in ECW or you know,
they did have that aura of stars and that rebel
kind of attitude, and with every reunion show it kind
of wears away at that memory.

Speaker 23 (02:36:18):
I think, are you a nostalgic wrestling fan? Do you
want to hear about shows you haven't seen in ten
twenty maybe even thirty years. Well, I have the show
for you. I'm pwtorts dot com contributor Frank petty Ani,
and since December of twenty twenty, I've hosted Pro Wrestling
Then and Now. Together with a rotating chair of co hosts.

(02:36:40):
We go back and review old shows from top to bottom,
talk about where the wrestlers were at the time, and
compare what's taking place now to what took place. Then
you can hear this along with other shows as part
of your PW sorts VIP membership with exclusive podcasts just
for members compatible with the Apple podcast app vi is
it PW tour dot com slash gil v ip for

(02:37:01):
details and sign up for.

Speaker 1 (02:37:09):
No no doubt about it. And we can't. I mean,
the clock ticks. You know, these guys are older, and
it's just there's so many Yeah, there's just so many
things that are imperfect about this. And you know, maybe
maybe T and A knew that going they do it,
you know, I mean, but they just when you look
at what they had to lose, it wasn't much, you know,
I mean, it's not like they're interrupting a thriving pay
per view business. But that that leads to maybe to
my next subject for you, Greg, which is what does

(02:37:30):
TNA do after this? I mean, everybody's coming up, you know,
it's a it's it's a it's a. One of the
top hobbies in wrestling is what would you do to
change TNA for the better? But this is a chance,
a unique chance where they kind of took a breather.
A lot of the focus, a lot of the focus,
not the entire focus has been on the the ev
to the return of ECW guys. But what do they
do to hit the reset button starting next with next

(02:37:52):
Thursday show? And where where should their focus be going
forward taking into accounts the lessons that they've learned hopefully
lay there to be learned from what they've done since
January fifth.

Speaker 16 (02:38:06):
Yeah, it's tough to say.

Speaker 15 (02:38:07):
I mean, there's a lot of things they could do.
The pay per view business. I mean, we talked about
ww's pay per view business being in the toilet for
them with their last quarter, of course, so one can
only imagine how badly TNA's pay per views is done.
Even worse than usual, one would suspect that WWE is
being down so bad now. The pa per view business

(02:38:30):
is high on the list of things TNA needs correct now.
How they do that. They have a ton of options,
and I think I even wrote a column about it
a few weeks ago, you know, as far as cutting
back the number of pay per views, making them seem
more important, et cetera, et cetera. But it pay per
views are such a good way to make money for

(02:38:50):
a company that is struggling like TNA is getting their
most most of their financial backing from Panda Energy, hand
from Spike TV, a company that really probably can't sustain
on their own without those two revenue streams, well, not
revenue streams, but money getting pumped into the company. To
see them not taking advantage of pay per views and

(02:39:13):
not and having them not look at it as a
way to garner more money, it's just mind boggling that
they don't see it that way. That they're so focused
on ratings and television ratings that it doesn't seem like
they care too much about pay per view buys when
I feel like they could get just as much money

(02:39:33):
off that, you know, well, let me five thousand more buys,
I mean, how how much more money is that?

Speaker 2 (02:39:38):
I mean?

Speaker 1 (02:39:39):
And I think they look at it backwards too, because
I think if they made pay per views, if they
put more their focus on pay per views and book
backwards from there, it creates a sense that the TV
shows are building up to something that's truly important and
historical and relevant. And by instead booking the TV shows
as self contained entities in a lot of ways, and
pay per views as oftentimes an afterthought because well nobody's

(02:39:59):
seen this, why bother, they make the TV shows less
important because one of the things that makes ROS seem
important isn't just that it's a self contained show. It's
that it's the setup for these really important events where
the top stars fight each other for titles and it's
three hours and there's no commercials and people pay to
see it and they've got traditions behind it. TNA doesn't
do that well enough, and it's this self fulfilling prophecy.

(02:40:22):
Then that even their TV shows, or it's kind of
it backfires. The TV shows mean less because they don't
actually make their pay per V seem important. When people
know the TV shows are subservient to pay per views,
so I pay perview don't seem important. It does wear
off on TV. I mean, there's so many things that
TNA could be doing better if the people in charge
had higher IQs it either wrestling wise or overall. And

(02:40:46):
not to be too mean about it, but I just
think there's people in there who are very complacent, who
are there to protect their jobs, and when it gets
right down to it, you need somebody with a high
wrestling IQ who commands respect. And that's one of the
things in my vip blowed yesterday that I wrote about.
I just don't think Dixie Carter has the respect of
the roster. She wrestling's a business and Eric Fischoff learned

(02:41:06):
this a hard way, and Vince McMahon is a strong
personality who is the exception that proves the rule. You've
got to be smarter than the wrestlers who are working
for you and really command their respect. Rob Van Dam
could show up and not be watching the TV show,
not really know what he's doing, not really be plugged
into his program, because well, why bother, I'm here to
collect a paycheck. Management doesn't know what they're doing. But

(02:41:27):
when management shows they know what they're doing, and they've
got a vision and they and they command respect, everybody's
game gets raised up. And TNA does seem to be
the place where people where top stars go and not
in all cases, there's exceptions. I mean, I think a
couple of the guys who worked hard. I think Christian
worked hard on his promos and was engaged. I think
Kurt Angle certainly has been engaged, even though he's not
as smart as he thinks he is when it comes

(02:41:48):
to the wrestling business booking wise and how to present
himself and book himself much less others. But I think
a lot of the guys go there and they're just like,
the culture is such where it undercuts teenage chances of
succeeding because they don't have that strong leader, whether it's
Dixie or the person Dixie hires to run the show.
And ultimately that that is one of the biggest things

(02:42:10):
that's missing. And that's something obviously that a Paul Hayman
or a Jim Ross would solve. And frankly Tommy Dreamer
is not.

Speaker 15 (02:42:15):
And you want to look at someone who's gone complacence
and doesn't look like they're really giving it, they're all
on CNA. I mean, let's no further than Jeff Hardy.
I mean, he looks like he's get a lot of weight,
although not so much in recent he's Bear number a
few weeks ago or I mean, his face just looks huge,
and it's like, you know, if who's in WWE, would
he be in the same kind of shape. I hardly

(02:42:36):
doubt it.

Speaker 1 (02:42:37):
No, they won't put up with it, you know, And
that's what it is. It's a perfect example, you know.
I mean, you can tell when Rob Van Dam's just
phoning it in, and you can tell when Rob Van
Dam is really engaged. And it's been rare that he's
been really engaged, and and you know, part of it
is his personality, and that's part of the reason that
that's what held him back in WWE, because they don't
push people like that who show up with that kind
of nonchalance, you know. And maybe RVD has life in

(02:42:58):
perspective better than some wrestler who just are you know,
John C and I live and breathe TNA. I'm sorry WWE.
Maybe Robin a big picture is smarter, Maybe he's better,
he's saving his money, he thinks about it, you know,
he's thinking about life outside of wrestling and life after wrestling.
But that doesn't make him the best person if you're
trying to turn your company around to invest in or
just to build a company like WWE was trying to

(02:43:20):
do in the two thousands, trying to you know, get
out of the the empty hole that Austin and Rock
and that whole attitude Era left behind. They you know,
a lot of fans wanted RVD to be the guy,
but sometimes you see why, you know why he wasn't
the guy when he gets in the different environment than
it's given the ball. And I was all for giving RVD,
you know, just building around RBD. And I think TNA

(02:43:41):
only went twenty thirty percent of the way that they
needed to in doing that because there are a few
weeks where they did it and then they kind of
lost their focus. So it's not like RVD has been
a failure because I think even if he showed up
half hearted, if everybody else is promoting him really hard,
I think you can convince the fans that he's the guy,
even if rvd's not as engaged as you want him
to be. But that Jeff Hardy is another good example,

(02:44:02):
and obviously Booker t was was that example.

Speaker 15 (02:44:04):
And you know, and you know, you know, ways these
are all guys who came to TNA because the schedule
was lighter and they didn't want to be on their
road as much as they were in WWE, and I
think along with that came that kind of complacency where
you know, I'm only working a couple of days a months.
You know, I want to be involved in the wrestling business,
but I don't want to see the grind that it
was in WWE. So I'm just gonna kind of relax
and kind of enjoy myself. And whether I'm in a

(02:44:28):
company that you know, doesn't necessarily care if you're in
either top shape or you know, phoning it in or not.
I want to be associated with the wrestling. I want
to be out there wrestling, but I'm not gonna you know,
I'm not going to give one hundred and ten percent
and do everything that I would maybe in WWE.

Speaker 1 (02:44:45):
Yeah, that's gouttle for eighty percent. We don't need one
hundred and ten. Just give us eighty instead of forty.
That would make a big difference too. Uh, you know,
too many people are showing up, and uh.

Speaker 15 (02:44:57):
That's what I see, Like, I mean, it seems like
it's associated with these guys wanting a lighter schedule, and
with that, it's almost seeming like going hand in hand.
Is that effort not being there that we've seen that
with that we've seen these guys give in WW, these
booker Ke's and these Jeff parties who gave that effort
in w W, just doesn't seem like it's coming across
in CNA.

Speaker 1 (02:45:16):
I agree, Greg, Thanks so much, great to be back
on the show with you. Thanks to all the VP
members for joining us. Just a reminder that the VP
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(02:45:54):
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