15 YRS AGO: Miz vs. Jerry Lawler reaction, King of the Ring tournament, Impact Thanksgiving ratings, Jeff Jarrett's push, Punk on commentary

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 2 (01:36):
Now.

Speaker 1 (01:37):
PW Torch and Spreaker bring you the Wade Killer Pro
Wrestling Podcast fifteen years ago. This week on the flagship
Jason Powell before Wrestling dot Net joined me, we talked
about the rawmin event from the night before with Miz
versus Jerry Lawler plus the King of the Ring tournament
See Them Punk on commentary. We also talked about the

(01:58):
t and a Impact Thanksgivings, Jeff Jarrett's MMA spoof and
his latest push, and then in the previously VIP exclusive
after show, we talked about Rock's Faster movie which Jason
saw and WESA went more in depth on other subjects
coming out of raw from the night before. So let's
get to it. This is the Way Keller Pro Wrestling
Podcast fifteen years ago Flagship flashback from November thirtieth, twenty ten,

(02:22):
four Monday, December first, twenty twenty five. Here we go,
Love Oh, Welcome to the PW Torch Live cast. I
am Pro Wrestling Torch newsletter editor and PW Torch dot
Com editor. Wade Keller joined today. Bye Jason Powell of
Pro Wrestling dot Net. Jason, how is it going good?

Speaker 3 (02:44):
I think you forgotten one notes? You have a Wadkeller
dot Com all I always I do.

Speaker 1 (02:49):
James cald Will mentioned it briefly in yesterday's show, but
I was going to talk about that today a little bit.
We got the new blog site set up. Wait to
get to it. It's a nice quick shortcut, it's easy
to remember. And that's my new blog page. As I
kind of joke, it's ninety eight point five percent me writing,
So it's it's not going to be a real reader

(03:10):
based or guest writer based or anything. It's just a
place for me to kind of play around with blogging
on a daily or even several times a day basis.
Which is what I've done so far, and we've had
a really nice response so far, so it's been fun.
It's kind of a new toy, very cool.

Speaker 3 (03:24):
I just I saw it just warning for the first time,
and it's been kind of a crazy day, so I
haven't had a chance to look at it, but I
definitely plan on checking it out.

Speaker 1 (03:30):
Well, what you will enjoy is the six pictures of
me on the splash page.

Speaker 3 (03:34):
Oh I did see that.

Speaker 1 (03:35):
Yeah, I'm not kidding anymore. Well them none of them
are from the last twenty years, so it's not like
I'm just, you know, saying hey, Well I'm sort of saying, hey,
look at me, but I'm not saying, hey, look at
how handsome I am in my thirties. And I have
to say that while I can or look at the
cool pose I can strike. So it's just it's it's
I really wanted it to be a little bit more
informal and different, and I wanted to kind of set

(03:56):
the tone with the old pictures of me to wrestlers
and on my old radio show. It's just kind of
a thing that says, hey, this is somebody who's been
a fan for a really long time, and was a
fan before he did the torch. And not that I'm
not going to do serious analysis on the site, because
I know torp out In my blog just a few
minutes ago, earlier this afternoon, I tore apart TNA for

(04:16):
their quarter hour ratings. And you know what raising the
bar means when Hulk Cogan says it, because it usually
corresponds to things going poorly. So I'm going to do
serious stuff, but I really do want to be a
little less straight up journalism and a little more casual.
And so anyway, I got to make fun of myself
for that, but I think it's a pretty cool, pretty
cool little photocollage too, of a lot of different things.
So anyway, you.

Speaker 3 (04:36):
Let that out of the bag that those are not
current photos.

Speaker 1 (04:39):
I thought you were.

Speaker 3 (04:40):
What people think that, Oh yeah, I still looked the
same as we did when I was twenty.

Speaker 1 (04:43):
Well it's it's just a little facial hair. Otherwise I
look just as young.

Speaker 3 (04:47):
There's just true. But wait, I don't have to suck
I'll suck up to you anymore. No, it's not true.
Oh jeez, we're both older. That's why the photo you
see on my site will probably be there when I'm fifty,
because I'm gonna have to go with that and just
let people think I I'd look as young as I
did when I was thirty. Unfortunately, I looked like I
was fifty when I was thirty.

Speaker 1 (05:04):
It was I disagree with all that. And I don't
have to catch here that either. But you look at
Debenair as always. But Pat Royce, the columnists for the
Start Tribune, he like had this picture on the Star
Tribune for years. He's got sports top sports columnists in
this town and like many sports columnists, also a radio host.
And he had the same picture of him when he

(05:26):
had lost like one hundred and fifty pounds and looked good.
He had the same picture of him up for I
don't know how many years. It's seemed like fifteen years,
and you'd see him on TV and he'd be like, okay,
time to update the picture, Pat. And then Dan Barrero
lost all his hair back in like nineteen ninety three,
but he had the same picture of him with a
full head of hair, you know, well into the two thousands.

(05:46):
So yeah, it's not unprecedented to keep a to keep
a picture up. But Jason, speaking of hair, when I
went through the photo albums and dug him out of
storage when I was doing some deep cleaning this this month.
Guess what I found.

Speaker 3 (06:01):
I'm gonna go out on a lemon guest photos with
of me with hair?

Speaker 1 (06:04):
Yes, wow, there's a there's one. It's only one. I
wouldn't say it's plural, but there is one picture. I
think it's you with Heckshaw dug In and you are
you're probably fifteen years old there and you got a
full head of hair. Let me tell you can find it. Yep,
it's you and Hexauw Duggin and you're wearing a hot
Rod T shirt and you're fifteen or sixteen, but you
look about eight.

Speaker 3 (06:26):
Wow, as opposed to when I turned twenty one and
all of a sudden I looked like I was thirty.

Speaker 1 (06:31):
And you've got a mullet too.

Speaker 3 (06:32):
So I still remember calling into the old KFA and
show you were on and McK foley. I was probably
in my teen somewhere in there, and McK foley, I
think he thought I was like five years old. He
actually said, put some bass in your voice, which I
don't think anyone said to me in like twenty years now.

Speaker 1 (06:50):
No, no, no, not at all. Well, anyway, that's a
trip on my reline. So seriously, everybody please check out
Waykeler dot com. I'm I'm proud of what we've done
so far in for what I can't say we what
I've done. I normally talk about the team, but this
site it's all about me. It's all about way Keller.
So I'm proud of what I've done so far, and
I got a lot of cool ideas to go. There's

(07:11):
some other vintage pictures in me, by the way, on
one of the early posts with me as a teenager
posan with rick Steamboat and Ricky Choshue and a few
other or a couple others. So anyways, cool stuff and
I hope you'll check it out way Keller dot com.
All right, Jason, A lot to talk about. I know
that you saw Faster and theaters. I want to talk

(07:32):
about that on this show, but we'll start with a
little bit more current event headlines. Last night, two big
happenings on Raw in the final two matches, Seamus becomes
King of the Ring. I think that was quickly overshadowed
by a pretty interesting main event mis versus Jerry Lawler.
I wrote in my Raw Report. I'm pw Torch dot com.
Still writing for that, still writing the same stuff I've

(07:55):
always write for Peter Beetorch by the way, the TV
reports and such, and I wrote my Raw Report. Who
would have a year ago if you would have said
a guy named Seamus is going to be the King
of the Ring, Daniel Bryan, Brian Danielson will be the
US Champion, The Miz will be the w WE Heavyweight Champion.
Jerry Lawler will be wrestling his first ever WWE title match,

(08:18):
and it'll be the main event a rah, and it'll
be a DLC match, which I think is hilarious for Lawler,
not that he didn't do some brawling in his day,
but you know, tables, letters and chairs. You don't think
of heights when you think of him. And CM Punk
would be the lone voice calling the final minutes of
the show. I mean, it's just surreal what can change
in a year. It makes me we're we're not worry

(08:40):
wonder where are we going to be one year from now?

Speaker 3 (08:43):
Oh yeah, very true. It's definitely been a time of
change in WWE, and that's a good thing. You know,
we spent a lot of time complaining about the lack
of a youth movement. Now we're actually getting one, and
that's nice to see. Taking that one step further, go
back to when Miss was on the MTV Reaction Show,
and if somebody told you then, yeah, in twenty ten,

(09:03):
that guy is going to be the WWE Champion and
he's going to defend his title against Jerry Lawler, you
would have thought they were crazy.

Speaker 1 (09:10):
Yeah, that's that's just such a a generation clash, you know.
I mean to imagine Lawler. I mean, imagine if you
told Miz your first WWE title defense. I don't know
if he defended it this weekend or not. I think
he was in tag matches at house shows, and I
think that a light schedule. But it's either his first

(09:31):
televised defense or his first defense ever is going to
be against Jerry Lawler. I mean, first of all, you go,
I'm going to be w W champion, and then you go, Okay,
now I know you're lying when you say Jerry Lawler
is my first opponent. That's ludicrous.

Speaker 3 (09:43):
Yeah, definitely. And you know, if somebody told me ten
years ago that was going to be a match, out
of thought, Oh well Lawlor. Wow, he's still hanging around
that indy scene and miss Expert for money.

Speaker 1 (09:54):
Yeah yeah, and the Miz is just you know, his
reality his reality h career flamed out and so now
he's doing gimmicky matches at in armories or something like that.
Give yourself a reason to look forward to going into
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(10:16):
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(10:39):
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Speaker 3 (11:02):
Let me let me spend this a little bit too late.
If somebody told you that, you know, even three years ago,
that TNA would have Jeff Hardy, Robbandamn, Hal Coogan, Rick Flair,
The list goes on, would you believe that they're still
doing basically the same ratings they always do well.

Speaker 1 (11:18):
I just posted this at Wade Keller dot com. I'm
gonna be like Mick Foley and get obnoxious with this,
hopefully not anyway at way Color dot com my block.
I just did my analysis of the ratings. James could
Will put his up on PW Torch dot com a
little bit before that, and my analysis I looked at
the last four Thanksgivings and the ratings for that showing
it's like, in general they're worse off than they've ever

(11:39):
been or not ever. But in recent years certainly we've
seen a downtrend in ratings despite the increase in star power,
supposed star power and legacy star power will call it
and the budget, but the uh, the Thanksgiving rating went
from a one point one rating in seven and eight
to I think aero point eight something zero point eight

(12:01):
five last year or something like that and nowero point
seven something this year, so actually on Thanksgiving, just trying
to compare apples to apples, the rating has gone down.
I mean, it's just terrible and once again some of
the lowest paid talent in TNA. The Knockouts did the
best rating of the show in terms of increasing the
audience from the previous quarter hour, and just no evidence

(12:21):
that those names you mentioned had any positive effect on
the ratings throughout the show. I think you had an
interview summary with Jimmy Rave on Pro Wrestling dot Net
Pro Wrestling dot Net and Jimmy Rave said that, you know,
I don't know, can't remember his exact words. Basically looks
kind of pathetic. When you turn on TNA and they've
got the old stars of the future, they need to
just promote their own people. And I just think the

(12:43):
main event last night or on Thursday night on Impact
did a pretty decent rating. You know, the rating went
up in quarter number eight from quarter on number seven,
which has not been the trend lately, sadly. And that
was eight guys and I think only two of them
had ever been in WWE before, the Pope and Matt Morgan,
and certainly they're not identified as you know, payper remain eventors,
TNA kind of elevated them. So I don't know. I mean,

(13:05):
if you're one of those top paid veteran guys, there's
not a lot of evidence that TNA needs to keep
you on payroll.

Speaker 3 (13:11):
No, there's not. But you know, it's just another day
in TNA. Nothing changes. And I guess the one thing
I'll defend them on to some extent with the ratings
for Thanksgiving is that the Thursday night NFL game has
become more prominent over the last couple of years. You know,
this year there was the New York team in there
with the Jets, and I know, I mean, they've been
doing I can't even remember when they started the evening game.

(13:32):
It's only been three four years. But I think in
those early games there was still a lot of problem
with NFL network penetration where a lot of people didn't
have it on their Cabler satellite system yet.

Speaker 1 (13:42):
Yeah, yeah, no, that's true. That's true. As we're saying,
you know, Yad Hulkgan and Eric Bischoff and Rob van
Dam to the mix, you sort of think, well, that
should at least offset the added competition from NFL and.

Speaker 3 (13:54):
Certain you know, and let's face it, it's Thanksgiving. That
doesn't explain the other fifty one weeks.

Speaker 4 (13:59):
Of the year.

Speaker 1 (14:01):
No, No, we're just isolating last Thursday in that respect.
You know, it's not fair to compare Thanksgiving to, you know,
to the show a week or two before that. Ratings wise,
it's obviously a different set of circumstances. But man, not
good numbers. I really don't know that Taz talking about
swelled areolas is like a really good family entertainment moment
either or having Tommy dream or bleed all over Rhino.

(14:22):
You know, I see Thanksgiving. I think I wrote this
at Waykelor dot com also my blog that I think
Thanksgiving would have been an opportunity, or maybe I just
wrote my t and AM pet report that the Thanksgiving
I see as an opportunity for TEENA to bring in
new fans. And I think, like a lot of people,
you've got mixed company on Thursday nights, and obviously a
lot of people are going to want to watch NFL.
But I could see, you know, some people watching NFL

(14:44):
in the family room. Other people go in the living
room and saying, hey, there's this wrestling company you know,
you guys should watch it. It's pretty cool. I like it.
And so you bring in a couple of people to
watch that show. You want to have a show that
puts your best foot forward, because that's the time when
you're most likely to have people who watch the show
like it, introduce it to other family members, a cousin,
a brother who you don't see very often, you know,

(15:05):
a dad, whatever. And I just think teenage's with the
best of forward, and I think they need to do
it in a little bit more of a family type way.
I think if you're going to have a show that
doesn't go, hey, look at how we're still the attitude
area here and we're great at PG thirteen or are
I just think Thanksgivings the show you would pull back
a little bit on that stuff.

Speaker 3 (15:25):
Yeah, I don't want to see him go back to
the Turkey suit days or anything like that, but well,
you know, and why not make that show seem special?
Why not you know, you pull out the old Thanksgiving
spectacular saying for that show, the description, hype it the
week before at least, and god, if nothing else, let
people know your show is actually going to be on
the next week. There's nothing that they don't go out

(15:46):
of their way to make that show special anymore. And
even when they did, it was that hokey Thanksgiving turkey
suit deal. But yeah, you're right. I mean that is
a chance there's when people are together that you get
one person who likes wrestling and maybe they can turn
one two others onto it. And you know, it's just
it's positioned as a show that if you miss an episode,
life goes on right.

Speaker 1 (16:08):
Yep, all right, And really, even if you watch all episodes,
you'll still be lost the following week when you try
to keep up. Sometimes with everything that happened, sometimes you
watch every show and you still think you missed a show.
But anyway, quick thumbs up or thumbs down on in
a brief comment on Seeampunk on commentary last.

Speaker 3 (16:23):
Night, you know, I hate to be this guy, but
I'm somewhere in the middle. I gave him a hit.
I give him, I guess a slight thumbs up. There's
still areas where I think he hurts the product. I
didn't like him. Some people find it edgy, but if
I'm a WWE shareholder, I don't want him mentioning that
DUIs ensure job security in WWEE. I didn't like that

(16:44):
when Daniel Bryant goes flying through the ropes for a
suicide dive that he calls and and that happens every week,
and it's true it does, but you don't point that out,
especially when that move was what's set up the finish
of that match that I thought, you know, just a
couple little things like that were I think Vice McMahon's
probably getting a kick out of it, but I don't

(17:04):
think he should be. I think it hurts the product
more than enhances it.

Speaker 1 (17:08):
I think those are two good examples of where Punk
is is a little bit more into getting himself over
than getting the product over, and I think that's so dangerous.
You know, Punk is very confident in himself. He's very
sure that he's very smart and very funny and very
witty and very very rebellious, and I think there comes
a point where if you're going to be sitting in
that seat, you got to be a little bit more

(17:28):
of a company man and think things through. Obviously, it
was a bad thing, not devastating, but a bad thing
that he gave away, or you know, it was certainly
a strong hint to the discerning listener that he gave
away the main event when he said that the finals
would be Seamus and Morrison, and he didn't realize Seamus
was not fighting Morrison yet because he was still in
the semi finals and hadn't even gotten there yet, and

(17:48):
he kind of had to run a correction there. Yeah,
the Dui reference I didn't like. There are a couple
other things where I thought even vincc Mann might not
be happy with them. But you know, maybe Vinces wants
the little buzzenerated from somebody being controversial and he's green
lighted punk, you know, to make some mistakes along with
you know, he's basically said shoot the ball in NBA

(18:09):
or college basketball terms, don't pass to shoot it. Just
be aggressive out there, be offensive. If you screw up,
I'll tell you learn from it. Don't make the same mistake,
but don't be timid out there. And that's kind of
what he's doing it. That's new life to the show.
I mean, I'm not you know, overall, I give it
a thumbs up, but you know, for for adding some energy.
But yeah, he needs to make sure that he's promoting
the product and not just trying to get himself over.
That's the job one of a color commentator is get

(18:30):
the product over, not just yourself.

Speaker 3 (18:32):
Where do you think this? How do you think this
bodes for Jerry Lawler? I mean, obviously they gave him
a feel good moment last night on his birthday and everything,
and Punk's not going to be their long term I
assume he heads back to the ring as soon as
he's healthy. But could this be the thing that kind
of makes Vince think we need to get a little
younger and a little edgier on commentary.

Speaker 1 (18:51):
It could. I'm not sure yet where they're going with
all Er. I mean, it seems like there's going to
be more to the Michael Cold Jerry Lawler relationship developing now.
And I think Jerry Lawler is under utilized as an
occasional legendary wrestler who steps out from hand to the table.
I thought he did a really nice job in the
main event last night. That's That's an example of how
Jerry Lawler, with very limited athleticism, was very smart and

(19:14):
efficient in what he did. And now he wrestled and
kept things interesting even without doing a lot. He was
much more successful than say Larry's Obisco had that kind
of formula he was a lot more entertaining. It's facial expressions,
it's timing the way he you know, it's like Caine
under the mask got evokes so many he had so
many emotion was able to express so many emotions through
body language subtly and lawlor Is even you know, at

(19:36):
a different level when it comes to that he doesn't
have a mask, but just body language wise and timing wise,
he's so good. And I mean, if i'm miss I
learned a lot from that. And I just think he's underutilized.
And I know he's told people this that he feels
like a little disrespect that WWE hasn't gone to him
and asked him for more tutoring and mentoring of some
of the young wrestlers and on how to work. I

(19:58):
think that he'd be great, you know, as kind of
an agent producer type role. But yeah, I answer your question,
I don't know where they're going. I don't know if
this is good or bad for Jerry. It makes them
more of a character, maybe light the fire under him.
I don't think Seampunk is a permanent broadcast booth guy.
I don't know what they're doing with him, but I
hope this leads to him having his first Threstlemania match.

Speaker 3 (20:16):
Yeah, he deserves that. You know, he gets a little
whiny about it at times, and I think that kind
of plays into the same issue that Jim Ross has
had over the years, where if you maybe I guess
you got to get it after if you're lowlor, but
if you continue to whine about it, I think Vince
McMahon is not going to give in just to spite you.
And with you know, with Ross, he's been I think

(20:37):
his own worst enemy by reacting to some of the
things that WWE has done to him, because Vince thrives
on that reaction.

Speaker 1 (20:46):
If you missed it earlier, just a reminder, we're running
our second VIP sale of the year. We don't do
these often, take advantage of it now. It is a
limited time offer take nine dollars off a VIP subscription
a one month, three month or one year sub It
brings the one month sub down to just three dollars
ninety nine cents. The coupon code is n O V
twenty twenty five as in November Nov twenty twenty five,

(21:07):
and that takes nine dollars off when you check out
on our sign up form pw Torch dot com slash
Go v IP gives you full details on membership benefits
and links to our sign up form. A right, Jason,
we've got packed phone lines well, any subjects, including perhaps
the review of Faster. We'll save for the VIP after
show because I have a feeling with everything going on

(21:28):
and a ton of people listening to the show right now,
way more than average. Let's let's go to the phone lines.
And yes, by the way, the chat room is open,
a lot of people in there today. And yes, I'm
all for a new drinking game. As Knuckles suggested that
every time I plug my new blog Waykeller dot com,
you all do a shot, because I think by the
end of the show it could make our phone calls
really interesting, more interesting than that guy last last night

(21:52):
who called James and Bruce and started complaining about how
our site gave him a virus or something. Anyway, let's
go to the fall lines. Eric, code seven or two.
You the first caller today. Thanks for calling. Please state
your name and where you're from. Hey, this is Ben.

Speaker 5 (22:09):
I actually called yesterday.

Speaker 1 (22:10):
Hey Ben, hopefully haven't been on hold since yesterday? No, Yes,
I'd be very dedicated of you.

Speaker 5 (22:21):
Well, I do love this show and I thoroughly recommend
everybody actually listen to the live broadcast that actually.

Speaker 3 (22:29):
I do it.

Speaker 5 (22:30):
I just you know, dial the phone number anyway.

Speaker 2 (22:32):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (22:34):
Two questions One the current commentary team.

Speaker 4 (22:37):
I heard you guys talking about it.

Speaker 5 (22:40):
Do you think that it will be tracked from some
of the matches that could possibly be you know, those
memorable moments, because right now with Michael Cole, you know,
can completely pooping on the product. You can't really have
those defining moments with Michael Cole saying well, Daniel Brian.

Speaker 6 (23:01):
Is not that good.

Speaker 1 (23:02):
Yeah, no, no, it's a it's a good point. I'm
kind of hoping what we're going what we're seeing here
is Cole going so far now with you know, literally
changing the course of a match and you know, a
couple couple of times at the end of that match
and leaving his broadcast table and being so unprofessional in
that way. I'm almost thinking maybe he gets suspended because

(23:22):
I mean that was just so over the top, and
then he ends up kind of coming back as more
of a straight play by play announcer. And if he
has a soft spot for Miz that's fine, but I
don't think standing up and going who who who is
really something that it doesn't. It just doesn't have the
dignity that arresting the announcer actually needs to have. There
is a certain bar under which you shouldn't go, and

(23:44):
I think Cole is going there when it comes to,
like you say, Ben, trying to have a moment of
gravitas when it comes to something big happen. And I
think they've gone in such multiple crazy directions now with
Lawler and Punk and Cole. I don't know where this
is all going to settle. I'm interested, I'm a little scared,
kind of anticipating it in a good way too. We'll see,
But yeah, i'd like I mean, Michael Cole seems, other

(24:06):
than what he did at the end of the show
with Sampunk, to be doing a little bit more of
a straight man broadcast now because Punk is kind of
providing that smart at seal commentary. But if they could
find a way to force or jar or cajole Cole
back into being more of that straight host and pulling back,
even if he does it resentfully because he was suspended
and you know, slapped on the back of his hand

(24:27):
or suspended. Maybe you know, maybe that's where we're headed.
And I kind of hope so, because I think Cole
has more energy and seems to enjoy his job more.
But yeah, we need that straight man. Announcer, Jason, what
do you think?

Speaker 3 (24:37):
I think the caller made an excellent point. Yeah, he
is detracking from the matches and he's a distraction. And
that's kind of my issue with Punk. Although Punk a
couple of times now has really focused in on certain
matches and enhance them a bit, Cole's just not doing that.
And as far as the finish of that match last
night goes, if that's heal Mike Canay preventing Kaz from

(24:58):
winning the championship and he's climbing the ladder to get
the title, people are screaming, bloody murdered that Vince Russo
has outdone himself and should be fired. But for some reason,
you know, there's just not that negative stigma about WWE
with most people, but in this case I think there
should be. I hated that finish. I thought it was
ridiculous that Jerry Lawler couldn't shake his foot free from

(25:20):
Michael Cole. What has he been? Did he master the
art of the Baron von Ratshki's quar or something. It
was just ridiculous.

Speaker 1 (25:28):
Yeah, I think the only explanation, if you're able to
give yourself one to make you feel happy as a
viewer is Jerry Lawler was actually so stunned Michael Cole
would do what he did that it was the realization
that it was Michael Cole. And again it depends on
the timing of when he looked down and thought with Cole.
But if you want to kind of suspend your disbelief
and just go, Jerry Lawler was so overwhelmed that his
longtime broadcast partner Michael Cole did that to him that

(25:50):
it totally threw him off his game of trying to
get the world title. And he might have thought, you know,
he had missed down.

Speaker 2 (25:55):
It was I mean, I.

Speaker 1 (25:56):
Didn't dislike to finish as much as you because it
was I don't disagree with your criticism. It's just I
don't have it quite as amplified as negative as you
in the sense that I think it's going somewhere and
I don't think people well, actually shouldn't say that I
was among the people. And we've had some emails and
some message board posters say they started thinking maybe Lawler
was gonna win, you know, maybe Mims would have a

(26:18):
super short title reign and then get maybe get a
rematch next week and regain the title right away or
something like that, you know, kind of do a two
week rating stunt. But I don't know that if it
was Mike Today and Tas that we would judge at
the same way, because part of it has to do
with how the build up was leading up to it,
and the Miz and Alex Riley and the whole dynamic
of everything that's been going on with Cole. I mean,

(26:40):
we've been pretty critical here on the show of the
whole thing of Michael Cole being kind of a Healis
announcer and the negatives of it. So I don't know
that last night was anything more than just kind of
almost a continuation of what we've been seeing with the
Cole character.

Speaker 3 (26:53):
Yeah, fair enough. I just boy, and I've got the
same thing from people kind of defending it and saying
that you know, he was going after he was just
tracted by Cole because he was so surprised, and I
guess there's just you know, some people are going to
have an easier time to spending their disbelief over certain
things than others, you know, and then there might be
something next week where I'm able to suspend my disbelief
and you're going, you're crazy.

Speaker 1 (27:14):
Yeah, And if you know, I think for what they did,
even if you disagree with that, it was largely well done.
You know, Lawler was really good on that match. Miss
was good. Cole you know, took a was believable and
took a bump And I mean, it's just I don't know. I,
Like I said, I'm just hoping that this is kind
of the climax of where the coal thing was going
and it leads to some positive resolution. Anyway, if Ben
any follow up from you before I let you go.

Speaker 5 (27:37):
Now, I'll save my question for later.

Speaker 1 (27:39):
Okay, thanks, man, appreciate it. We've got a lot of
people on hold, eight people total right now if you
want to get in line on the phone bank, so
the number is six four six seven to one nine
A two eight. You're listening to me, Wade Keller and
Jason Powell on the PW Torch Live cast on Tuesday
November thirtieth, two thousand and ten, and we welcome you

(27:59):
to join in the chat room. If you're listening to
us live, we are on live Monday through Friday. On Mondays,
we're on in the hour directly preceding raw. Whatever time
ROS starts, we're starting an hour before then. And otherwise
Tuesday through Friday we're on five thirty to six thirty Eastern.
We had a special show on Thanksgiving right in about
ten minutes live, and then I went to an archive

(28:19):
of a radio show from nineteen years earlier, my Kfan
radio show here in Minnesota, talking about that weekend, that
Thanksgiving weekends happenings. If you subscribe in iTunes or want
to check it out at blogtalk Radio in the archive listening,
I encourage you to check it out. I know a
lot of you probably a busy weekend and maybe haven't
gotten around to the Thanksgiving afternoon evening show. But it

(28:41):
was a special edition, and I think you'll get a
kick out of hearing basically the same format but nineteen
years ago, a very different world, but live calls, some journalists,
round table guests, and some good stuff. They're very much
different than our usual format. So check that out. The
Thanksgiving edition from last Thursday's worth grabbing all right, let's
go in the full Line's got so many people on

(29:01):
hold here, I want to keep trying to keep the
pace up here. Eight one four. Thanks for calling. Please
state your name and where you're from.

Speaker 4 (29:07):
Hey, guys, it's Rich from Pittsburgh.

Speaker 1 (29:09):
Hi, Rick, Thanks for Collin.

Speaker 7 (29:11):
Hey, what's going on?

Speaker 8 (29:12):
Hey?

Speaker 6 (29:12):
Jason?

Speaker 7 (29:14):
A couple of them very good. I might a couple
of things I want to say about the Waller situation.
I had mentioned to James a couple of months ago
about maybe Michael colegett and way over his head and
maybe going way beyond what he's prepared to do, and
then the jam could fire him.

Speaker 4 (29:28):
What kind of scenario would you do?

Speaker 1 (29:30):
Then?

Speaker 7 (29:30):
Maybe get Cold out of there, And I know it's unlikely,
but maybe with the way things are, you somehow get
Ross back. I mean, I know it's far best, but
maybe they're playing seats for that and it would make
logical sense to do and would remove him and then
bring rosson, or even have a match with Colin Waller,
where if Waller one day comes back and then the
second thing, if you're booking Waller to rufflemy what it

(29:51):
makes this to me? From money in the bank, you
can tell a story about his last shot at something.
You put them on the card and you're not really
taking away from the matches, and it's believable, especially after
last night.

Speaker 4 (30:02):
He could play off of that.

Speaker 1 (30:03):
Maybe, Jason, what do you think on that, especially Lawler
versus Cole. If Lawler wins, he gets Jim Ross back,
you know, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (30:11):
If i'd save that for many. I think the story
rights itself now. If they want to bring back Ross,
maybe that's what they're doing, And I think you could
easily have Michael Cole. The GM decides that Cole has
taken it too far and they are going to remove
him from any show that the miss is a part of,
and thus he can only call you know an XT

(30:33):
and SmackDown, And so that creates the opening on the
Ross side of things. As far as Ross versus Lawler
versus Cole, it's just not a match I want to see.
I'd much rather see Cole find someone to do the
fighting for him at Wrestlemaney and then Lawler gets his
many appearance that way, and probably the happy ending where

(30:53):
he beats Cole's guide. And whether there's a stipulation in
Player or not, I don't know. That it's necessary, but
it be one way to get Lawler on the WrestleMania card.

Speaker 1 (31:02):
Yeah, and Lawler's never been on WrestleMania, and I think
this might be a year to do it. I think
if we want Jim Ross back on Raw, and I
think probably the majority of people, you know, no offense
to Michael Cole. If you know Michael, whether you like
his current character or just him at his best as
a as a commentator, He's not you know, he's not terrible.
He's just, you know, he's a little bit better than
an average commentator most of the time. Jim Ross is exceptional,

(31:24):
you know, he's he's he's an exceptional commentator and still is.
I think we, most of us would like to see
him back on Raw, and you know, find a spot
for Cole on SmackDown again, or make him a heal manager,
which I think would be great and would be great
in that role. But the best way to get Ross
back on commentary is to collectively pretend there's no chance
of it happening. Vincent maanh clearly wrote him off on
The Legend Show, The Old School Show, maybe clear he's

(31:46):
not coming back, so that because Vince would then love
to surprise the conventional wisdom by going by God. If
people think Ross isn't coming back, I'm going to bring
him back just to shock people. So so I guess
that's the best the best route I would take for
getting him back, because thing we want Ross back, probably
and doing a big campaign or anything probably isn't gonna

(32:06):
gonna help matters. And inasmuch as McMahons is tuned into
the uh to the voice of play of shows like
this and publications like this.

Speaker 9 (32:22):
Are you a fan of AW looking to sit back,
relax and listen to some like minded podcasters who share
your passion.

Speaker 10 (32:29):
Do you want to be topped off the ledge after
a segment that has you wondering what the heck are
they thinking?

Speaker 9 (32:34):
Do you want to join a discussion on what AW
is doing right and what they could do to improve?

Speaker 10 (32:40):
Then join me Joel and me Greg for the All
Elee Conversation Club every Friday on the pw Torch Live Cast.
Fee search pw Torch in your podcast app and subscribe
to pw torch Daily Cast or stream our shows directly
from pw torch dot com. Find full details on the
pw torch Daily Cast lineup.

Speaker 9 (32:58):
At PW Torch Daily Cast.

Speaker 3 (33:09):
Well, once you show you if Ross does come back,
will Vince then convince himself that he made the fans
want Ross back, just like he convinced himself that he
was the reason they were chanting ec w.

Speaker 1 (33:18):
Hey, whatever it takes to get Ross back, and yeah,
you might be right. Anything else, Rick.

Speaker 4 (33:24):
Quickly, I think you've missed the shot. What I said.

Speaker 7 (33:26):
I was talking about Walmer doing Waller Cole aing on
maybe as soon as TLC, and I was sallow, maybe
getting Waller on the car, maybe hiding money in the
bank where you could play out the story like Waller,
you know, coming to the end of his career, he's
gonna get one last shot at getting a title match,
and then you get him on the car and you
can also hide him a little bit in an.

Speaker 4 (33:42):
Eight person match.

Speaker 1 (33:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (33:43):
Well, so as far as he announcement, I think you
could play it up just like they did in two
thousand and one when Wawler came back from this hiatus.
You can ask Cole taking out like security Ross walks
down the aisle and be kind of fitting the pop Waller.

Speaker 4 (33:54):
Got for punching Cole last. It would probably be bigger
than that. So that's all I have. Thank you.

Speaker 1 (33:59):
I appreciate you call. Good call. Yeah, yeah, no, I
know you're kind of thinking maybe they would do the
Lawler call mat s soon. I think theyd almost have
to do that sooner than WrestleMania. I mean, sometimes WW
surprises me and how long they can string something out.
But it's hard to imagine the Cole Lawler feud culminating
at Mania. I think that's something that would be more
weeks away, not months away. So yeah, I kind of
agree with you there. Lawyer and money in the bank's
kind of intriguing, you know, a little wild card to

(34:20):
get thrown in there, especially if MS is still champions, say,
defending against John Cena at WrestleMania, people might think, well,
Lawler wins money in the bank, and if MS seeks Pastsena,
you know, Lawer wouldet a chance at revenge. Who knows.
All Right, next phone call, let's go to Eric code
ninety three one. Thanks for calling. Please state your name
and where you're from. Hey, it's Ian, some Tennessee. Hey

(34:42):
in good hear for me. What's on your mind today?

Speaker 11 (34:45):
Well, I'll keep it short. Did you have a lot
of people on hold that I couldn't help, but notice
that in Tonk's T shirt that he had. I guess
you would only it's all the very first part because
it kind of got covered up, But it made me
think to the whole situation to where Told Cabana got fired,

(35:08):
I guess the supposed prejudice towards his religion or whatever.
And it just made me wonder, how long has that
been going on in wrestling and why is it acceptable
at this point to somebody like Vince McMahon be in

(35:28):
such a high position openly prejudiced against a lot of things,
and nobody's really said that that's wrong.

Speaker 1 (35:39):
What you I mean? I know Cole Cabana has said
that he felt he was discriminated against. I don't know
that that becomes a foregone conclusion. I think there's clearly
a track record. Ravinsic Man has kind of had a
no rules approach when it came to that kind of thing,
whether it's you know, calling Mark Henry, you know a
silverbackerrilla which has you know, historical racist ties that you know,

(36:03):
imagery and classification that was used very specifically to justify
violence and discrimination against blacks, And you just have to
understand history and respect the fact that something in a
brand new world that might be acceptable aren't when you
know the context of him. But I don't know, well,
I mean, the Cocbana T shirt was punk, you know,
paying tribute to a friend. I assume he had permission.

(36:24):
If not, he's probably in a little bit of trouble
for that too. But you know, if something gets overt enough,
people are going to speak out against it, and he's
going to feel the pressure from USA network and advertisers.
So I don't know that he's gone over the line
enough where it just seems like insane that he's still
in a position of power. Ian, is there something that
jumps out that just that really concrete proof that you

(36:45):
just think that's kind of the disqualifying factor for Vince
being in a position of power, like you, Well, it's.

Speaker 11 (36:53):
I just so you know, from what I've heard about
his opinion on certain people of other ethnic origins and
and sexual persuasions and and i'll leading to certain people
not getting pushes or getting fired or whatever, and it
just doesn't seem like something that would hold up in

(37:13):
any other trench of business.

Speaker 1 (37:16):
Well, I sadly, I think it holds up in a
lot of places of business when it's done subtly. But
I think wrestling probably has at times quite often been
a little bit behind the progressive bar in this country.
But I think there's a lot a lot of stuff
that we see in a much more colorful fashion on
WWA shows up in real world in other ways too.

(37:37):
I mean, I'm not entirely disagree with you, and I
just I just don't know if there's anything that just
jumps out where you just go that is the you know,
that's that's the disqualifying factor that can undisputably be pointed
to as being the reason that that Ben should be
in the Buddies and Jason, any any thoughts on your
end on this subject.

Speaker 3 (37:54):
Sure, Yeah, I don't know the cults ever come out
and you know, pointed finger at Fitch picked man. I
think it's others within the company with Vince, you know,
I did a lot of asking around about Vinnis McMahon
on this regarding this subject when the whole Michael Hayes
and Mark Henry incident played out, and I was told
by a couple of people that Vince is the type that, yeah,
he likes a good joke, and and you know, it's

(38:15):
not the type that he's going to whisper behind somebody's back.
It's more of a fun, loving approach. But if anyone
ever implies that they're bothered by it, he will stop
doing it. And you know, it doesn't make it right.
I think with the Hayes situation, the hammer should have
come down harder, you know, the suspension I don't. I
don't think fine, I don't feel was enough. I think

(38:35):
he probably, given his history, should have lost his job
and in that situation, but he didn't. And so far
it sounds like, you know, we haven't heard any any
Hayes horror stories or anything, so hopefully a lesson was learned.
But I just you know, if if Cold Commando, if
Hayes is the person Colt was referring to, and I
don't know that he was, I don't remember the story
all that well, then you know, maybe that's a sign

(38:57):
that there is still an issue there. But you know,
bigotries existed in pro wrestling for many many years, and
bigotries existed in other areas of business for many many years.
So it's not to make it seem like it's a
non issue, because it certainly is. But I don't think
you can just sit here and point the finger necessarily

(39:18):
advance for being the ringleader of all this. Could he
have done more just to prevent this a long time ago. Yeah, yeah,
I think that's a fair statement.

Speaker 1 (39:27):
Yeah, I agree with you there all right. Next up
on the phone make Saderio three four seven. Thanks for calling.
Please state your name and where you're from.

Speaker 12 (39:35):
My name is Christian, New York. I have a comment
or I want to get your opinion on a Vett
Heart interview that he did basically over the years, even
though when Vett Heart was on my good terms and
like man, he's always praised him as a promoter and
actually was grateful for making him a start. But recently
he put the fact that Ted, I mean Eric Bischhoff
as Hogan's stay in TNA and maybe he does enjoy it,

(39:56):
because I'm sure McMahon enjoys it. But he pointed out
the fact that he thinks they're failing because they don't
have Ted Turner to carry them around like you get
in the nineties of this cable networks and everything.

Speaker 1 (40:07):
You agree with that assessment, Jason, What do you think
on that?

Speaker 3 (40:11):
It was kind of cutting out because you give me
the clip quick version of that question.

Speaker 1 (40:16):
Go ahead, go ahead, Christen, and kind of summarize it
into one line question for Jason.

Speaker 12 (40:19):
Okay, Basically, bern Hart was mocking Bishop of Hogan's failing
in TNA, and he said that the reason why they're
failing is because they don't have a Vincic Man type
leader and also the fact that they don't have Ted
Turner to carry them around anymore.

Speaker 1 (40:33):
Okay, So Jason, what do you think on that?

Speaker 3 (40:36):
Well, I mean there's something to that. I don't think
that Bishoff and Hogan have done a good job in
TNA and they can't take you know, they're not completely
to blame for it, but you know, there is a
big difference when you have Ted Turner's money behind you
that they don't have in TNA now.

Speaker 1 (40:53):
And but it helps cover up mistakes, it does.

Speaker 5 (40:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (40:56):
And sadly though, if they did have Turner behind them
right now and with the same circumstances, I just don't
know at this point in their lives that they could
be any more effective than they have been. It's not
like there's there's a talent shortage in TNA. So you know,
is Brett hipocritical when it comes to some of the
things he said about Vince in the past compared to now. Yeah, probably,

(41:18):
But with Hogan and Bischoff, I don't think he said
anything that out of line. I mean, I guess, you know,
maybe if you want to apply the old adage and
if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say
anything at all. But I don't think he's saying anything
that's untrue.

Speaker 1 (41:30):
I think I'll report to be very boring Jathan if
we if we prescribe to that philosophy, I agree. Anytime
you're watching ww E Raw or SmackDown or AEW Dynamite
in particular, send us an email if you've got thoughts
on the show or a topic you want us to address,
or a question for us. Wade Kellor Podcast at pw
torch dot com. Wadekellor Podcast at pewtorch dot com. If

(41:54):
there's anything else going on in pro wrestling that you
want us to address on our main podcast during our
mailbank segments, that's am email applies. Wade Keller Podcast at
pw torch dot com. We invite that interaction, let us
know what you think of what we're saying, and let
us know what you want us to talk about and
ask us specific questions. Wade Keller Podcast at PW Torch
dot com. Chris, did that answer question attic quickly? Or

(42:18):
do you have any follow up? No?

Speaker 12 (42:20):
I just agree with Brethheart's statement. I just wanted to
get your opinion on it.

Speaker 1 (42:24):
Yeah, No, I think I think to a degree. Yeah,
Brett's been inconsistent with his view on on Vin mcmahn
and he definitely sees Eric Bischoff as beneath Vince, both
personally and in terms of professional acumen. And so he's
going to take his wrath out on on both Hogan.
He's going to express his negative feelings towards Bishop and
Hogan without reservation where now because McMahon has been relatively

(42:45):
kind to him and professional to him. There, you know,
he's getting a little bit of a saft spot again
for the guy that he worked for for the vast
majority of his career and enjoyed those years better with
a couple exceptions, than he did working for WW where
he really, you know, felt the victim of politics, and
Bishoff gave his side of that story and extended an
extended version of his side of that story in the

(43:06):
Torch talk that I did with him last year, talking
about how he just thought Brett showed up and ww
a broken man could have been concussion syndrome combined with
just being completely thrown off by what mc man did
to him, and he just felt like it was hard
to work with Brett. And now Brett looks back on
that and doesn't see it that way and thinks, you know,
Bischoff just had it in for him and was unprofessional.
But yeah, I mean, there's no doubt Bishoff and Hogan

(43:27):
benefited from having you know, Ted Turner's money or tie
a well Time Warner money to help cover up their
mistakes and if nothing else, help them amplify their good
ideas to really really big, you know, to amplify their
big ideas to a level that made a real difference
and grab people's attention. You know, Monday Nightrol with one
third of the budget went to grab people's attention the way
Monday Nitrol with a great budget, being live every week

(43:49):
with good production values did. So there's a lot to that, Chris,
Thanks for your call. Next let's go to Erico two
to one two. Thanks for calling. Please state your name
and where you're from.

Speaker 2 (43:58):
Hey, wait it's Ken again.

Speaker 1 (43:59):
I do good Ken. Thanks for calling called.

Speaker 2 (44:02):
Look called last week. Second time calling.

Speaker 1 (44:04):
Now where are you?

Speaker 2 (44:04):
Probably well in New York. Now I'm not calling from work,
so cool.

Speaker 1 (44:09):
Okay, yep, so what's on your mind?

Speaker 2 (44:10):
Anyway?

Speaker 1 (44:10):
Thanks for calling again?

Speaker 2 (44:12):
No fun anyway. I guess my question tonight really had
to do with the less nights King of the Ring
a week after Spiro series. It kind of just seems
opposite of what's going on. You know, on the one hand,
you have fourteen pay per views and the other hand,
everything's happening on Funday night RAW. Yeah, so I was
wondering if maybe you thought that this was kind of

(44:34):
a transition year where you know, maybe next year we're
either gonna you know, they're gonna They're like they're kind
of using this year to like figure things out. Maybe
less pay per views, more things happening on RAW, especially
like you keep on saying every week, you know, thirty
million dollars a quarter or whatever it is coming in.
I just it just seems logical to do that. But

(44:56):
right now that's not what's happening. They're having more pay
per views and less action, and then the Monday nights
are getting the actions there just didn't really make sense.

Speaker 1 (45:06):
Pay per views still have a pretty good profit margin,
you know, relative to some of the other categories where
they take in a lot of revenue, you know, I mean,
they still like pay per view. I don't think we're
going to see them drop it down to six or
four anytime soon, even though I think there's an argument
to be made in favor of that, more so with CNA,
but I think especially with WWE, you know, they've got
a lot to think about the numbers. I mean, there's

(45:28):
so much news that happened since last Wednesday, you know,
since the holiday weekend, and one of the things was
they kind of dumped the news of the bad really
bad by rate for a couple of pay per views
here that were bunched up in the fall. I don't
think what they're doing though, it seems to me and
Jason you can let me know what you're saying, but
it doesn't seem to me that different than what they've
done in the past. They've had three hour shows before,

(45:49):
they've done Old School raw them's done The King of
the Ring in a couple of years. But you know,
it hasn't been a pay per view staple for a while.
The Slammys have been a regular thing, you know, the
three hour ras. I mean, as Eric Bischoff said in
the Torch talk with me last year, I one of
the last questions, I said, what's the number one reason,
what's the number one decision that you think hurt WCW

(46:09):
that you could take back if you if you could,
And he said Thunder the one word answered you know,
I think, and I think if he expanded on it, it
would have been expanding Nitro to three hours. It was
so tempting to take that advertising money when it was
sitting in front of him and a lot of you know,
number of critics prown and critics said that had been
crazy not to take the ad dollars. And I said
at the time, and I think history has proven it

(46:30):
right over time, that it over extended the booking team,
it over extended the wrestlers, and it really wore out
a water down the product of the point that fans
felt less passionately about two hours of nitro every week,
and obviously adding both Thunder and a three hour Nitro
to the mix took it from two to five hours
of wrestling a week, and it was just more than

(46:51):
fans wanted that had an appetite for, and they didn't
have the talent base, and the shows are differentiated enough,
so on a lesser level, I think having three hour
rows just to please USA Network, to give them a
little extra ad revenue, and more importantly, and more so
in the past than now, give them a little bit
of an edge in the ratings boot so they can
stay number one. USA likes to be number one, and
right now ESPN looks like they're on their way to

(47:13):
end USA network streak in that regard. So that's kind
of where the thriller ros are coming from. It's more
to please USA Network, which is a hugely valuable partner
to them, and I think they're willing to sacrifice a little.
I still don't think they have a huge problem having
a King of the Ring match or mis versus Lawler
on RAW. I think it keeps Raw interesting and I
am of the opinion that I don't think having Miz

(47:35):
catching his money in the bank on Raw rather than
on pay per view was a big negative. I think
they delivered what they needed to on the Survivors series.
Bruce Mitchell made that argument. I think in yesterday's show
also kind of taking my side on that. Anyway, Jason,
I'll throw to you on this. What do you think
they're kind of shifting more to Raw than they had
in the past.

Speaker 3 (47:52):
I don't think so. I disagree with you and Bruce
as you know on Survivor series, but there have been
other pay per views where I felt they didn't do
enough on pay per view and gave you too much
the next nine on Raw. Even back to the attitude there,
there were times I felt that, So I don't think
it shifted that much. As far as Kanan the Ring
being on Law, I'd love to see it go back

(48:12):
to being its own pay per view if WWE was
going to take it seriously, but they decided long ago
that they don't feel it's a viable pay per view,
and I was very disappointed when the list of twenty
eleven pay per views came out to see there were
still thirteen shows using the same themes as last year.
So I don't think that much has really changed.

Speaker 1 (48:31):
Yeah, can any quick follow up before we go?

Speaker 2 (48:35):
Yeah? Just I never really looked at Shamus the same
way I kind of looked at let's say, Daniel Bryan
Marson del Rio. I was wondering why didn't think, let's say,
God like Swagger or Ziggler, I think are more technical
wrestlers than let's say Seamus. I know, I thought to
tact that anyone and like what you know that he's

(48:55):
like the probably of top mid Carter, but you know
it kind of rebilling it almost as that like Nicol
Wrestling and King of the Ring. But then I don't
look at him that way. I don't wonder what you
thought about that.

Speaker 1 (49:05):
I don't look at Seamus. I mean, I don't think
there's a who'd you say.

Speaker 3 (49:09):
Besides Salt, Ziggler, Daniel Bryan, I know he's.

Speaker 1 (49:14):
Yeah, I mean, Swagger's got the amateursing background obviously, Daniel
Bryan is a great Matt technician. Ziggler, you know, he's
got some I don't know that Ziggler and Seamus. I
think it's being all that different other than I think
Seamus is a bigger guy. He's kind of deceptively bigger.
And I think Seamus kind of his gimmick is being
a little bit more of a power wrestler, not a
technical guy. So I don't think WW you should portray

(49:35):
Seamus is some sort of you know, scientific wrestler to
use the old term, he's you know using it.

Speaker 2 (49:41):
That's That's what I'm saying. Like it seemed like that
other than Seamus is kind of was that in the
King of the Ring. Yeah, it looks smaller guys, and
then he was just.

Speaker 1 (49:49):
Like one, Yeah. Well, I think he won because they
like him a lot, and I think they should. I
think Seamus is one of the you know, top prospects
to emerge in the last twelve to eighteen months as
somebody who's going to help carry WWE into the next generation.
I'm a big fan of Shamus, and I think the
match that he had last night with John Morrison and

(50:10):
the matches he's had with John Morrison recently had house
shows on TV show that he's a good worker and
he can keep up with somebody who's smaller and carry
his end of a match, not just when it's a
pro like a Randy Orton or John Cena. So I
like Seamus and I think he's worth pushing, and maybe
the King of the Ring gives him a little bit
of an extra boost after he got maybe a little stale.
I don't think he needed it. I think somebody on

(50:31):
SmackDown could have done more with it, but by having
it stay on Rod might make the King of the
Ring titled seem a little more relevant. There are a
lot of people I think the King of the Ring
would have worked for Jason. Do you like Seamus winning
King of the Ring and do you like Kenson? What's
your take on Ken's kind of analysis of what it means.

Speaker 3 (50:48):
Yeah, I mean I like the idea. It didn't make
for the most exciting tournament, but I think the obvious
thing it does is it sets up the King of
the Ring versus the King of Kings, if they want
to take that approach. Not that it was necessary. I think,
you know, Hunter coming back with the grudge against Seamus
kind of sells itself. But King Seamus had, you know,
a nice ring to it. If they feel like they
need to enhance his character and have him come out

(51:10):
in that crown for a while, and it adds a
little something, I'm with You don't know that was necessary,
but I think very highly of Seamus. He might he's
not at this point. He's not going to be the
guy that's going to go out there and give you
the four or five star match or anything like that.
But he's kind of a he's not big enough to
be a monster, but he kind of works that style

(51:30):
his offense. The finishing stuff, the high cross and the
bro kick look impressive.

Speaker 1 (51:35):
Yeah, and I disagree a little bit in that. I
think he can give you the four star match with
the right matchup.

Speaker 3 (51:40):
Yeah, that's possible, you know, four star, I guess is possible.
But you know he's not going to go out there.
I don't think and get the match of the year
just yet. I guess the better way of putting.

Speaker 1 (51:48):
Yeah, good, Yeah, I can't disagree with that. All right.
Up next is Color through the Internet. Please state your
name and where you're from.

Speaker 8 (51:55):
Hey, guys, it's Jeff from Los Angeles.

Speaker 1 (51:57):
Hey, Jeff, good hear from you. What's on your mind today?

Speaker 8 (52:01):
Uh? I have a different take on this whole main
event angle from last night.

Speaker 1 (52:06):
Uh.

Speaker 8 (52:07):
I thought it was a horrible idea, okay for for
for a few reasons. Number one, this is your new
schamp that you're bringing out to basically coorinate and to
build up to the next pay per view about and
you put him.

Speaker 3 (52:23):
In a match. I'll be it.

Speaker 8 (52:24):
I'll give it. It's a TLC match, but.

Speaker 4 (52:27):
With a guy who you're giving a favor.

Speaker 8 (52:29):
Too because it's his birthday and he's ten years past
his prime. Uh passed his prime from ten years ago.
And then, to top it all off, the guy who
gets the most heat from the match is your play
by play announcer. I just I don't understand what miss

(52:49):
gets out of this in terms of being the new
the new guy to carry the ball when you're when
you're basically building an angle around announcers.

Speaker 1 (52:57):
Uh, Jeff, everything you said is true. I can't deny it.
I can't say that I don't feel like maybe I'm
not underplaying all of your criticism. I think on a
point by point level, you're right. I think in the macro,
something about the sum of all of those parts added
up to something that I think felt like a moment
of the year. You know, it's one of those moments.

(53:17):
And Justine to talk about wrestlmingium moments, this was a
raw moment. And I think a lot of the things
you said makes sense. They really do. And I think
there are reasons to vote against, you know, there are
reasons to consider voting against doing what they did last night.
I don't know that it was just because it's Lawler's birthday.
That's typically not how WWE works. I think I think
this was using Miz to parlay them to something that

(53:39):
they want to do with Lawler, And if it doesn't
turn into anything more with Lawler, I think it'll be
kind of a weird choice then. But if it doesn't turn,
if there's not some forwarding of a storyline with O Collars,
then it was kind of weird. I think it is
going to be treated, for better or for worse, as
a type of champion who is entertaining and can talk
his way into selling tickets for a match on the microphone.

(54:00):
So I think, to me, now, some people and I
wrote about this at wade teller dot com. Everyone do
a shot on my blog. Somebody at somebody at emailed
and said, I think this is what happened on RAW
is a sign that things aren't going to go well
for missus champion. He's going to be transitional. And I
kind of looked at it as it was almost a
sign of confidence in miss that they didn't need to
baby him, that they could put him out there, have
him cut a good promo, go out there, do an

(54:22):
angle with Lawler, kind of a one off angle with
Lawler probably and not make him the center of attention.
It's like they're not desperate, they're not insecure. They know
Miz is going to be entertaining and he's going to
They want him to look beatable, and I think what
we saw is he's going to win. He's going to
retain his title by eking it out through a cheating
or happenstance, or somebody who doesn't even have a dog

(54:42):
in the fight with him interfering because they have something else.
If you missed it earlier, just a reminder, we're running
our second VIP sale of the year. We don't do
these often, take advantage of it now. It is a
limited time offer take nine dollars off a VIP subscription.
A one month, three month, or one year sub brings
the one month subdown to just three dollars in ninety
nine cents. The coupon code is n o V twenty

(55:05):
twenty five as in November n V twenty twenty five,
and that takes nine dollars off. When you check out
on our sign up form pw Torch dot com. Slash
Go v ip gives you full details on membership benefits
and links to our sign up form, Jason, your thoughts
on this, Yeah, I agree with the call or Brian Large.

Speaker 3 (55:25):
I didn't care for the decision, but I have to
I think you nailed it, Laighton in your commentary way
when you said that he looks beatable. He's a vulnerable champion.
I think anyone who's hoping that Miss is going to
be new Triple Hiel where he just dominates people and
gets pins is crazy. They're hoping that right now, at

(55:46):
least maybe things will change if he has a long
title ran. But for right now, they want you to
tune into Raw and they want you to order the
pay per views because you think there's a chance that
Miss is going to lose that title.

Speaker 1 (55:57):
Agreed, Agreed, Ken, Jeff, I'm sorry, thanks you call so much.
We're gonna keep roll through calls here. We got so
many people on hold in ten minutes left, the show
is just freezing. By Jason. I don't want to forget though,
when I get and have time run out on us.
Please give a plug to your website as always on Tuesdays,
and also your membership site and what comes with a membership.

Speaker 3 (56:14):
Absolutely, we probably won't get to it today here on
the live version, of the show. So if you want
to find out my take on the Dwayne Johnson movie Faster,
that's one of the things you can find in my
most recent blog that was published yesterday that's available to
everyone at Pro wrestling dot Net. Membership sign up starts
at just five fifty a month if you take the
annual option. You can hear the recent Court Bauer interview

(56:36):
ninety three minutes, and there was also a three hour
interview that I conducted with Court, who's a former WWE
SmackDown Creative Team member, former MLW promoter, and current MMA consultant.
And he has a very opinionated guy with a lot
of things to say about his time in WWE and
current take on the industry. And that's just one of
many interviews over there on the ad free version of

(56:58):
the site. And again it starts at five dollars and
fifty cents a month. Head over to pro wrestling dot Net.
You'll find the sign up area on the main page
and you can gain almost instant access if you choose
to sign up right now.

Speaker 1 (57:09):
Excellent, excellent, excellent. All right, we lost a few callers
who I think are losing some patience with us, but
we are going to try to get to all of you,
so hold tight. Definitely recommend that Pro Wrestling dot net
go check it out. Also, Jason, you've got an app
on the iPhone and the droid phone.

Speaker 3 (57:25):
Absolutely yep.

Speaker 1 (57:25):
All right, cool, All right, let's see who is next
in line? Who haven't gone to yet? Had everybody lined
up in a couple of people?

Speaker 2 (57:34):
Hung up?

Speaker 1 (57:34):
Okay, nine one four, you're up next in line. Thanks
for Colin, Thanks for holding Please state your name and
where you're from.

Speaker 4 (57:40):
Steve from Florida.

Speaker 1 (57:42):
Hey, Steve, thanks for calling. What's on your mind today?

Speaker 4 (57:45):
Well, basically, what do you guys see for the road
to wrestle Monia.

Speaker 1 (57:49):
Do you see anything.

Speaker 4 (57:52):
That maybe the ww has done to lead you to
believe they're heading in a certain direction or would you
like to comment on what direction you'd like?

Speaker 1 (58:01):
A good question, Jason, We're going to get this almost
every week between now and the Royal Rumble when things
start to take shape. My short answer is, I think
we're probably headed towards triple h against Seamus, John Cena
against Miz and I'm not sure for Randy Orton where
he'd be. That's kind of my very short answer in

(58:22):
terms at the top of the card. What do you think,
Jason No.

Speaker 3 (58:24):
I agree with you. I don't know what they're going
to do on the SmackDown side yet. I just can't
imagine the Kine's going to go to WrestleMania's World Heavyweight champion.
The alternative being an Edge right now doesn't excite me
all that much, but at least he can have better
matches than Kane is. So I don't know what they
do on the SmackDown side, but I think all signs
do point right now to John Cena and the Miz.
And going back to that line that I took his

(58:45):
foreshadowing before the Survivor series when miss said he was
going to win that championship and he wouldn't see scene
again until WrestleMania, I think that does play out. Undertaker's
going to factor in somewhere. Whether that's a match with
an MMA guy or someone on the card remains to
be seen. I don't think there's any realistic chance that
they get brock Lessner at this point, but you know,
Roy Nelson has expressed interest and it sounds like he

(59:07):
might be contractually able to do so. I don't know
if WWE wants to go down that road though, so
a lot of times. Still it's coming up quickly, yet
there's still a lot of time Province to change his
mind repeatedly about what is WrestleMania lineup is going to be.

Speaker 1 (59:20):
And I think maybe on the SmackDown side, if Edge
ended up with the title, and I mean, I don't
see a lot of better options. I don't think. I
don't think Edge is a great, great option, but looking
at SmackDown, I mean, it does seem like, you know,
one of the limited ones that I could see Edge
against Jack Swagger maybe, I mean, I know, I'm kinda yeah,
I don't know. I mean, I could see promos between
those two beings, so, you know, being entertaining. You know,

(59:41):
I think I think they'd meshed in terms of going
back and forth Undertaker if he's healthy and can go,
and if it's a one on one match and not
a tag match to protect him. Who's who's at the
top of the list, Jason, do you think to be
Takers opponent? I mean, is it the final blowoff with
Kine Boy?

Speaker 3 (59:57):
I hope not. I've just seen that match so many times,
but yeah, it's not going to be, you know, barring
something shocking happening happening where they somehow do get Lesnar,
which I just don't see happening. Taker's not going to
be that featured match like The Street has been in
the last couple of years because of Shawn Michaels. So
I think, yeah, you know, if they if Hunter comes
back sooner than we expect and they burn through that program,

(01:00:19):
they could do something with Shamus. But I also think
they've kind of planted the seas for something with Undertaker
and Nexus.

Speaker 1 (01:00:26):
That's a thing. You know, we haven't mentioned Wade Bart's
name yet, and I could see a possibility of Taker
versus Barrett, and you know it's not Yeah, you're not
going to get another Sean Michaels or Rick Flair type match.
I mean, if they brought in Goldberg or Sting or
Brock Lesner, okay, then you've got, you know something, or
Ray Nelson, you've got something that qualifies as kind of

(01:00:46):
a special attraction type match. They're not going to put
Ray Nelson in against Undertaker. There's just too much can
go wrong. Lesner obviously could handle it. Sting would be
an interesting, you know, kind of one time only match
at WrestleMania against the legendary Undertaker. That be a dream
match for people who have been fans for a long time.
WWE could do a good job at the video footage
they have turning Sting into a real star. Again, I

(01:01:08):
don't have any idea, you know what. It's not something
that I've heard talked about. It's just something I'm kind
of throwing out there. Otherwise, Wayde Barrett an Undertaker makes
some sense, you know. It's a chance to give. They
like way Barrett, Wade Barrett. They think is going to
draw money for them for years to come, and I
think they're right, and Undertaker doesn't have a lot of
time left, and I think Undertaker versus John Cena is
a match that they want to fit in at a WrestleMania,

(01:01:30):
if not next year, probably a year or two down
the line, you know, in one of the final Undertaker matches.
So if you want Barrett to have that moment, that
WrestleMania moment, I could see Undertaker versus Wayde Barrett being
a match at WrestleMania, and they could end up making
it mean something, especially with the way Nexus was involved
in the Burriy to Live finish. Then what do you

(01:01:51):
do with Randy Orton. I still I'd have to look
at the lineup of who's left over afterwards, but I
just think John Seene against miz makes sense, and I
think that triple its against Seamus seems like the most
logical way to go. So that's probably that would be
where I'd put my money right now, as far as
the lineup goes. All right, we're very short on time,
and we went on a little bit on that question.
Let's go now to Erico nine to one seven. Please

(01:02:12):
state your name and where you're from and a quick
question or comment.

Speaker 6 (01:02:15):
Hey guys, Joe from Queen, how you doing this?

Speaker 3 (01:02:17):
Very good?

Speaker 4 (01:02:17):
Joey, good good, Thanks guys.

Speaker 6 (01:02:20):
Two things, One, look out for the Bills on Sunday.
They have the best two and nineteen that you'll ever play.
So just letting you guys know about that.

Speaker 1 (01:02:28):
Well we are we are the best. What three and
eighteen or a four four and seven, four and seven,
we're the best. Foreign said, it's going to be a
battle between two playoff teams who aren't going to make
a plast.

Speaker 6 (01:02:39):
Yes, exactly, watch out though fits Patrick again magic anyway, anyway,
my question is I'll make it quick. Jeff Jarries why why?
Why does he always get pushes? It seems like I
thought they were going to be done with the guys
two years ago when they like kicked him on hiatus
to go do like promotional stuff. Then all of a sudden,
he's back. And I don't understand why they keep throwing
him into the mainstream as far as pushes. Oh, especially

(01:03:00):
since I've read where like Eric Fishoff bamm Off the
craft out of him and Colgan. You know, if you
remember back from the day, wasn't a big fan of him.
I just don't understand why he's getting pushed.

Speaker 1 (01:03:10):
And that's it, Jason, what do you like.

Speaker 3 (01:03:13):
I think it's because he's friends with Vince Russo. I
think it's because he still has some pull in that company.
And so if everybody that has some pulling that company
is in the dominating heel faction, then everybody's happy.

Speaker 1 (01:03:25):
Yeah. And you know, I mean, Jared's not in the
World World title mix. I don't have I mean again,
I would do. I would blow things up and start
over in TNA in a lot of ways, but given
the way that they promote right now, Jeff, Jared's not
like this horrible embarrassment. I get a little bit of
a kick out of these MMA skits. I think they're
kind of funny. I think, as long as it's you know,
him making fun of himself a little bit, which it

(01:03:47):
seems like it might be, I'm still still holding out judgment.
I mean, having him as long as he gets beat
up by samo Jo and loses in the end. I mean,
I think he's playing a role that I can tolerate.
He's not your pay per view Maine event draw, and
I think he's come to terms with that. But being
kind of a role player who's got, you know, obviously
an identity with TNA, I mean, I'm not terribly offended

(01:04:08):
by it. Jason Quick thilmbs up or down on the
whole MMA expert gimmick that he's kind of doing the spoof.

Speaker 3 (01:04:13):
You know, I have not seen the video yet. I'm
about forty five minutes into Impact, still catching up on
my Thanksgiving viewing. But the first time around it annoyed me.

Speaker 1 (01:04:23):
Ninety seconds.

Speaker 3 (01:04:24):
It seemed like it was supposed to be funny. But
that was the one thing that Taz and Tonay called
straight and acted like it was legitimate. And I could
spend an hour talking about how bad TNA commentating is,
but maybe another day.

Speaker 13 (01:04:42):
I'm Kelly Wells, host of PWT Talks NXT, the longest
running NXT podcast Anywhere. Join me along with Nate Lindberg,
Bruce Lee, Hazelwood and special guests live every Tuesday night,
just minutes after NXT, where we covered the good, the bad,
and the ugly on the way to becoming a star
WWE check us out live on YouTube or stream later

(01:05:03):
wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 1 (01:05:12):
All right, up next, Eric, Eric od nine one. Oh,
thanks for calling and for holding. Please state you name
and where you're from. A quick question or comment. Oh, yes,
this is all Hannibal yea, I gotta knowing great good
inform you Haible.

Speaker 7 (01:05:24):
Okay, you have got a question to Okay. When ww
was on Spike TV, they'll allow to get away with
vows you know, all women. But when CNA came to
Spike TV, they were allowed to have that.

Speaker 4 (01:05:35):
So what was the deal.

Speaker 1 (01:05:37):
Behind that good, good question, Jason.

Speaker 3 (01:05:40):
I don't think TNA was allowed. In fact, I know
Jim Mitchell. They wanted him to be Awesome Kong's manager,
and they ended up going with Rays because they couldn't
have Mitchell interfere with any kind of violent storted women.

Speaker 1 (01:05:53):
Yeah, so they have had a policy that kind of
kept that in check. Over time. All right, we had
two of the people on hold. Is going to try
to speaking one more quick question or comment that we
could at least take in the after show, but the
callers hung up. So thanks everybody, great participation today's show.
Lots of people in the chat room appreciate that. Jason
and I are going to be staying around here in

(01:06:13):
the VIP after show talking about things we didn't get
to on the air today, including his review of The
Rocks movie and or join us tomorrow for another show.
And don't forget Wadekeller dot com my new blog. Please
check it out Drink. Thank you for using blog talk radio.

Speaker 8 (01:06:43):
Goodbye, all right.

Speaker 1 (01:06:44):
Jason, We're now to the v IP after show portion
of the program. Thanks to those in the chatroom. Daniel
Scotland just said great show, Wade and Jason. Someone else
said good chat today in the chatroom, So those of
you who listen live, I appreciate you joining in the chatroom.
Tyrone just said good show and good chat. So anyway,

(01:07:04):
and Knuckles said this was fun. So some good reviews
for us. Jason, nice to see that instant feedback on
the show. There's so much to talk about, my gosh,
t and impact ratings came in. We talked a little
bit about that already. Smack down ratings came in, no surprise,
they were the lowest they've been since since on Sci Fi.
I don't think that's a real big story. King of
the Ring victory for Seamus was seamous your pick to win?

Speaker 3 (01:07:27):
Jason, He yeah, I mean the only thing that made
me think he wasn't going to win was and they
kept saying he was the favorite, and I wondered if
that was reverse psychology even.

Speaker 1 (01:07:36):
Then, you know, I worked double reverse psychology.

Speaker 3 (01:07:39):
Yeah, yeah, And I thought there was a chance that
maybe they would go with del Rio, or even if
they wanted to make another effort to get Drew McIntyre
over the King, gimmick would fit him well. But you know,
Shamus did seem like the obvious one, and I guess
that's kind of what made it just feel like a
pretty predictable tournament in retrospect. Not you know, you have

(01:08:01):
to get there if you're hell bent on Seamus being
the King, but it's just especially once they had that
double count out finish, it was like, Okay, it's either
going to be Shamus or John Morrison, and I assume
it's going to be Seamous because King John Morrison really
doesn't jump out at anyone.

Speaker 1 (01:08:19):
Yes, And I think Seamus is giving him that gimmick
as a sign that I think or that win is
a sign that they want to give him a little
something extra to think his character, to think his teeth
into as a character. He's been kind of lacking anything
just super obvious as a hook for his character lately,
and so you know it being able to do the
King gimmick. And also they really tried and I think

(01:08:40):
they were effective in doing this. They really tried to
make it seem like King of the Ring was a
way to crown future world champions, and they really stress that.
They talked about how many King of the Ring winners
have gone on to hold world titles and how many
titles they've gone on to hold. It was an obscene
number you.

Speaker 3 (01:08:56):
Talked about this was that it was sixty something.

Speaker 1 (01:08:58):
Yeah, sixty five or sixty eight, So I mean, yeah,
it was just I mean, there's shimply be that many
title world title victors in a thirty year period, much
less that many King of the Ring winners in twenty
years eight. But that aside, you know, you take the
history as history, and you got to you know, you're
better off acknowledging it the not in most cases. But
they talked about how Brett Hart won it, Triple H
won it, Steve Austin wont it. They really stressed brock

(01:09:19):
Lesner winning it, which I thought almost raised his expectations
that he's going to be part of WrestleMania somehow because
they talked about him so much. But by by naming
so many significant names who have won the tournament, I
think what they were trying to do is set you
up by looking at Seamus as the next big thing,
as the next Triple H, Austin, brock Lesner, going way

(01:09:40):
back to ninety one to ninety three, Brett Hart, and
so I think having Seamus win with the type of
acknowledgment of what this tends to indicate is sending the
signal defense, Hey, Seamous is going to be around for
a while and be a big star.

Speaker 3 (01:09:52):
Yeah, and there's something to you know, I don't I
just don't know that the message needed to be sent
granted he hasn't been you know, dominating people late Lee
Long recently to John Morrison and everything. But I guess
you know, if you felt like you had done him
a bit of a disservice in the booking lately and
you felt the need to strengthen him for the inevitable
showdown with Triple H, this was one way to do it.

(01:10:12):
But it just didn't make for a very exciting night
of television. I was let down by King of the
Ring you mentioned Lesner. I have to throw this out.
If if you're Dana White, and let's say Vince McMahon
comes to you and says, all right, I know you
don't want Brock to wrestle, and you're probably wondering, what's
in this for you? What if we make Brock Lesner

(01:10:34):
in the special referee of a match at WrestleMania, and
you know, if you can structure it so his fight
is sometime after WrestleMania, we'll let you. You know, we'll promote
the hell out of that pay per view for you
because it's it's taking place after our show. Would that
possibly entice you if you're Dana.

Speaker 1 (01:10:52):
White, Yeah, I think that would entice me. If I'm
Dana White. I don't know. I think Dana White doesn't
fear WWE. Yeah, I think if you're vincent, man, I'm
not sure you make that deal. I mean, unless you're
just worried about solvency, about being able to pay the
rent on your building or the least on your building.
I mean, I just don't know that you get. You

(01:11:13):
go so far as to basically for a one night
boost and buy rate promote the competition that's killing one
of your top two or three major major income sources
in pay per view. And I think you can argue
a lot of things. A factored into wwspirrates going down,
the economy, the departure of some longtime stars who pay

(01:11:34):
per view. Longtime pay per view buyers followed their careers,
and when their careers ended, they said, I don't need
to spend this money every month to do it. The
price raised to obscene levels fifty five dollars a month
now for people who order it an high death in
most cases, and forty five I think is in and
of itself, way out of line and too high. That's
a factor. Too many pay per views, too quickly, too
rapid fire, not enough time to build them up or

(01:11:55):
talk about them afterwards and make them seem important like
Musty wins. Overexposure of television. Sorry to go on this
longer list, but it just keeps going. So it's not
just UFC, the overexposure of wrestling on cable, you know,
the addition of ECW and eventually NXT and Superstars on
WGM featuring a lot of wrestling combined with SmackDown and
Raw sometimes three hours. That's factored in and other things too,

(01:12:19):
But UFC, you know, I think people look at if
they're going to spend money on pay per view, it's
going to be something they can't see on TV every week.
And I think that's where you and the callers have
had a point when it comes to miss winning the
title on Raw. Want I think if you're WWE, you
want ratings, and I think they're serving two masters and

(01:12:40):
they're conflicted and it's a challenge for them, and I
get that, but you want to send a message consistently
that if you don't see a pay per view, you're
not seeing history in the making. You're missing moments in
time and you need to see them and you need
to see them live before you read about them or
hear about them, and they're not stressing that enough and
delivering enough. And I think that's where people are coming
from their disappointment in the missing. So going back all

(01:13:04):
the way full circle, the Lesser, I don't know that
you draw that kind of attention to USC pay per
views and remind people how what a big starbrock Lessner
is and give them TV time and then basically send
your biggest pay per view audience of the year to
the Brock Lesner fight. And you know, you could argue, well,
those who like those who like USC like it already
and are going to order it, and they have more
to gain than lose. I don't know that that's a

(01:13:25):
risk I take. I think I in less Brock's wrestling,
and even then it's borderline. I mean, I get the pros,
I get the positives, and it's not an easy call,
but I just think that has to be because you're
really out of other ideas.

Speaker 3 (01:13:38):
Yeah, I agree. You know, if I'm daina white I
listen because you know that's roughly a million pay per
view viewers, and you know the buys and there's certainly
more viewers than people do get together for WrestleMania. That
you can promote your show to and I guess if
from Vince's perspective, maybe he's thinking, well, it's not all

(01:13:58):
that difference than we did with Voyd Mayweather. I think
the problem though, is that there's more of a crossover
and you're more likely to lose some WWE fans CUFC
than you are too boxing.

Speaker 1 (01:14:10):
True. True, we are running our second VIP sale of
the year. You want to take advantage of this. If
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(01:15:35):
off a one month, three month, or one year sub.
So we talked about kting. The ring talked a lot
of during the show about Lawler and Miz. I guess
I kind of want to revisit it briefly in terms
of Michael Cole. What are the options from here with
Michael Cole? I mean you talked about it. You know,
if Today did it the TAZ, it would be one thing.

(01:15:57):
You know, you could imagine where the storyline might go
with her. But with the Wave Vincent Man books and
what we've seen with Michael Cole and the Mister GM
and his relationship with Jerry Lawler and Jim Ross is
an X factor in here. And see I'm punk being
out of the broadcast team and all of that, and
Joey Styles tweeted, I don't know what I mean, what
are the possible directions that are at least plausible where
they're going here?

Speaker 3 (01:16:15):
Okay, Joey's Styles is still with the company. He's just
not a talent. He's an employee of the company. It say.
It's very similar to the situation with Jim Ross where
his talent contract finally expired. He's trying to create a
buzz for himself on Twitter and he's going to start
selling Joey Styles copy mugs and all sorts of other stuff.
But he's not leaving WWE. He's just not going to

(01:16:35):
be a talent and thats he won't be a commentator.
So as far as where you go with Michael Cole, gosh,
I mean If this doesn't lead to him being removed
from the Raw broadcast team, I don't know if anything
will from a storyline standpoint, it's something has to change.
I mean, I guess you can chalk it up to
the anonymous GM as a hero and isn't going to

(01:16:57):
take any action and you just have a lot of
tension between Lawler and Coal for a while. But you know,
I think, you know, the perfect scenario is the one
we've been talking about where he loses his spot on Raw.
Somehow they do finally take a stand and say enough
is enough and you went too far this time, and
they ban him from Raw or wherever misses wrestling and

(01:17:19):
Jim Ross gets his job back.

Speaker 1 (01:17:21):
Yeah, And the other good action would be Michael Cole
get suspended but comes back and is now disciplined. You know,
he's now for a company man, he's seen the light.
Or you know, they could do a story you know,
they could do some angle where he has a breakdown
and says, I can't believe what happened to me and
that wasn't me and I want to apologize. You know,
there's there's got to be some creative way to get

(01:17:41):
the old Michael Cole back he had fun. You know,
maybe they can say he had a drinking problem. They
can do They can do a Mike Adamley t think
with Cole and say we didn't even realize it, but
the guy was drinking before every edition of Raw, and
we sent him to treatment, and he's going to come
back and he's going to be sober and and and therefore,
you know, credible again or I don't know. I mean,
I'm just literally brains, you know, just thinking out loud.

(01:18:02):
There's a lot of directions they can go with this.
In the end, I think they need to rein in
wherever this is going. When the dust settles, you need
to have a straight color a straight and a straight
play by play guy, and a heel analyst. And if
you have Jerry Lawler there to add perspective to the mix,
that's fine. I oh, you don't need a heal commentator.
You can have a straight announcer and a babyface sympathizing

(01:18:23):
commentator and Jerry Lawler too. I'm fine with that. But
if you have a third man in the booth and
it's sampunk to do in the heel act, that's fine.
I don't even mind them rotating different people into that
third chair, you know, keep things kind of vibrant, add
a little energy to things. Ideal scenario Ross and Lawler.
Second scenario straight Michael Cole with Lawler and and an
equally good option is maybe have a rotating third guy

(01:18:45):
where you have somebody for you know, a couple months
at a time, especially an injured wrestler, or you know,
have arn Anderson come out for a month. Just have
ourn Anders a month, I don't know, to kind of
keep things a little fresh in that regard.

Speaker 3 (01:18:55):
You know, the caller Richmond have been onto something though
too when he mentioned either up the idea of whole
wrestling a match at some point. Keep in mind that,
you know, that was one of the things that they
had Mike Adeley getting ready for before he ended up
taking what appears to be as permanent hiatus from the company,
as they had him actually training and getting ready to
do some type of a match and it never happened.

(01:19:16):
But you know, maybe Vince is going to go back
to that plan and just insert Cole instead.

Speaker 1 (01:19:22):
Let's let's shift before we run out of time. Stuff
to go a little bit sooner than usual today in
the after show, faster the rock in theaters, not no,
almost no one in the theater, you.

Speaker 3 (01:19:32):
Wrote, Yeah, I was very surprised because going into this,
it's like the trailers slick and it's cool, and it's
got a good name, and Dwayne Johnson returning to the
to the you know, the action genre, and you also
have Billy Bob Thornton's in the movie. Not that he's
a major box office or anything, but it just seemed
like this was the potential for a breakup. There wasn't

(01:19:53):
anything that I can think of, major that was coming
out in theaters that was going to conflict with it
for the holiday weekend. And yeah, there was about twenty
people in that theater on opening night and granted, you know,
it was lousy weather here in Minnesota, but the actual
multiplex was filled with people who were going to see
other movies. And so not a good start at least

(01:20:13):
in my area for Dwayne Johnson's movie. And based on
the opening weekend box office numbers, it doesn't look like
it was very different across the country.

Speaker 1 (01:20:21):
Yeah, which movie wise thumbs up comes down a little,
you know, highs and lows.

Speaker 3 (01:20:28):
I would give it just a slight thumbs up, you know,
on a one to five scale, I'd probably give it, like,
you know, two and a half, so somewhere in the
middle the slight thumbs up. I guess it's the name
almost does it a disservice because when I think a
faster you know, I think of what you see in

(01:20:49):
the commercial, which is cool cars, rock and leather and
you know, all sorts of different things like that, and
it's not really a fast paced movie. It's it's more
of an old fashioned seventies revenge tale and it you know,
they keep it moving to some extent, but it's just
not what the title implies. And the character that Rock
played would have been perfectly played by Randy Orton. This

(01:21:11):
would have been his ideal role, not that he would
have had. You know, he probably would have had less
box office success than The Rock is. But the Rock
wasn't asked to do a whole lot as far as
dialogue goes. He had some dialogue, but a lot of
it was just the facial expressions that Randy Orton excels in,
and so I think he, you know, if he could

(01:21:33):
have actually gotten in this role this this would have
worked out nicely for Randy Orton, but for Dwayne Johnson.
I mean, he was fine, good overall cast and everything.
And I didn't leave the theater angry that I spent
my money or anything, but I didn't leave going Wow,
that was a lot of fun. I can't wait to
go tell people, you know, go check this movie. Yet
there's there's I won't spoil it, but there's just one

(01:21:55):
scene at the end that really leapt me with a
bad taste in my mouth. And those who don't plan
on seeing the movie already have if you want to
check out that spoilers, just you know, read my blog
on the website on pro Wrestling dot net and you
can find out what that is. But they just they
pushed something a little too far. It was it was
pretty They didn't go too far over the top during

(01:22:15):
most of the movie, so that scene really jumped on.
It was like, really, that that's what you're gonna do?
That that's pretty weak finish.

Speaker 1 (01:22:22):
Yeah, interesting, what do you think of the expendables?

Speaker 3 (01:22:26):
Kind of what I expected? The first half hour I
was sitting there, Wow, this is good. This is gonna
be better than I thought. And then it's just kind
of settled in two year typical saloon throw back action
kind of movie, and so I wasn't let down by it,
but starts off strong and and kind of gets, you know,
pretty predictable, I guess. And have you seen the movie?

Speaker 1 (01:22:46):
No, I haven't.

Speaker 3 (01:22:47):
Okay, there's there's one thing with Dolph's with Dolph Lundgren
aka Ivan Drago that was a little hokey at the
end too, But I mean it was fun. If I'm
Dwayne Johnson, unless I'm desperate to be part of a
box office hit, because you know, with all those action stars,
I'm sure it'll do well for the sequel that they're
talking about. I think he's approaching it right. If the

(01:23:08):
material is good, he'll he'll he's interested. I think that
was probably his nice way of saying, yeah, I don't
think so, because you're gonna get lost in the shuffle.
You know. Steve Austin was good. He was good in
his role as a henchman. They didn't ask him to
do a ton but he didn't se him on a
place at all. Randy co Tour kind of did. But
I think Dwayne Johnson playing second fiddle to Sylvester Stallone,

(01:23:29):
h I don't think i'd do it if I were him.

Speaker 1 (01:23:32):
Yeah, yep. A couple other things on raw before I
wrap up here John Cena. The way that they handled
to come back, I mean, it's crazy. It's buried here,
you know, an hour fifteen minutes into our conversation that
includes a lot of raw talk. But the follow up
on John Cena, he shows up in the crowd, has
a ticket, ads up, interfering, pairing apart the announced desk.

(01:23:54):
What do you think of the way that they handled
John Cena's returned, so to speak, after basically retiring last week.

Speaker 2 (01:23:59):
I hate it.

Speaker 3 (01:24:00):
I just it went from being a very emotional storyline
where you know, Seeing is leaving and worried about what
the decision and everything that he had to make, and
I thought he really did a nice job with that,
and then last week with the farewell address where he
kept it light but it was still emotional at the
same time, that was all very well done, and then
this week it's just back to happy go Lucky Johnson

(01:24:21):
and beating up on you know, those those horses from
Exus who handhanng on their own. I strongly, strongly disliked
the direction they took. I think there's a reason that
people aren't talking about it today because they took it
from being the hot angle on Raw and now it's
just kind of it's like, really that that's what you got,
And so a week follow up and I don't think
people are all that excited about it anymore.

Speaker 1 (01:24:49):
You don't have to wait for the way Keller Pro
Wrestling post show to find out what I thought of
Monday Night Raw and smackdowny Tweak. You can check out
my reports that are updated live throughout Raw and SmackDown
at p torch dot com. My written report will tell
you what's happening in detail in case you missed the show,
and it will also analyze key segments and give my
random thoughts quips on what I am watching as it airs.

(01:25:12):
So check it out every Monday night and Tuesday night
at pwtorch dot com. That also applies to WWE pay perviews.
I cover those live at pw torch dot com with
a detailed written report with star ratings, and of course
you can find other TV reports from other contributors to
pw torch such as nxt ROH, Impact Wrestling, and more.
Check it out pw torch dot com your first stop

(01:25:34):
for TV and pay per view written reports. I thought
what was most intriguing is that Wade Barrett kind of
laid out in his promo We're right, you thought the
storyline was gonna go. I mean it's we were like, yeah,

(01:25:55):
you're gonna make life miser for me and try to
get me to reinstate you. And he kind of showed
his hand. You know, maybe wwe wanted to send the
message to fans. Hey, ultimately, this is what's going to happen. Now,
just stay tuned to see it play out. John Sena
is going to get reinstated by Wade Barrett. He has
the power to do it. It's just a matter of
how does he make it happen.

Speaker 3 (01:26:14):
I think they might be paying a little bit too
much attention to people like us, these stays away, you know,
because of the all the draw the comments about Seamus
being the favorite to win King of the Ring is
usually code for that person's not going to win. And
then in this case, they took what everyone's been talking
about online and assuming that's how it was going to
play out, and we're quick to point out that's not it.
So you know, I'm maybe I'm reaching with that. I

(01:26:37):
don't know, but that part was nice. It did make
Wade Barrett look like, you know, he can't be easily
duped like a lot of some of the cartoonish heels
in the past have. But you know, ultimately, we know
Scene is going to get his job back, and so
I guess the key is to do it in a
way that Wade Barrett lives up to what he said
and doesn't get so frustrated that he gives in, and

(01:26:58):
also doesn't make him look like a dupe us for
doing it. David o'tungua has a plan. I think we're
supposed to be curious about what that is. But David
O'tungua's plan is always back player, so it's hard for
me to take that seriously.

Speaker 1 (01:27:10):
Yeah, yeah, well, I mean the whole David o'tungue thing is,
it's got a long way to go. Clearly, it's been
a game of planning seeds for something that they want
to do down the line. I'd like it as an undercurrent,
you know, It's it's not the center part of a show,
but it's something that when something does happen, at least
they'll be the foundation laid for it, that that has
been laid for a long time. But yeah, I mean, now,
I mean the fact that they did acknowledge as much,

(01:27:32):
you know, everything about where I thought things were going.
I'm a little more intrigue. I think the positive is
they've told fans Johnson is going to be around every week, probably,
But at some point, you know, you think the mystery
GM has to chime in and say, you know, hey,
seeing you're fired, you shouldn't be in the building. I
thought Seena had a good explanation for how we got backstage,
which is, you know, the guys who are supposed to

(01:27:52):
stop him or the guys that next us beat up,
and so they're gonna let them slip in the doors.
But you would think that the anonymous GM would have
something to say about that.

Speaker 3 (01:27:59):
Yeah, I think, and I guess you know, that is
one way of looking at it, too, is that the
casual fans now know Johnson is going to be there
every week, and for them that's that's positive. For me,
as someone who wanted to see this play out a
little bit, a little bit longer without Sena, you know,
it's a negative. So how they you know, they probably
did please the masses with that, and I guess that's more,

(01:28:21):
you know, that's the most important thing.

Speaker 1 (01:28:23):
Very good Jason, any any clothing thoughts or comments or
subjects we didn't cover before we wrap up here.

Speaker 3 (01:28:27):
Well, yeah, it's it's my godwid it's it's come on.
This is a huge day. This is NXT season three finale.
Oh gosh, we are down. You know, I thought they
were going to go with a j who was like
the undersized major w WE fan anytime they do these
contests where you had to like pick out, you know,

(01:28:48):
the distorted picture of the of the w w E
star their and truth music. I mean, she was all
over it. I mean, she's she's totally a fan, and
so I thought, well, maybe they'll give it to her.
She's got a nice personality and everything. And they eliminated
her last week, and so the only ones left are
trashy looking Caitlin That's just my take on it. And
she's the one who has been feuding with Vicky Guerrero

(01:29:11):
and Naomi, who showed a lot of athleticism early on
in the season. But I thank god this is over,
well at least season three. We're getting season four with
and I really hope that, you know, season four, I
don't see them experimenting a whole lot with the format
because we all know it's a dead show, and my
guess is that it's this is a lame duck season.

(01:29:35):
They're keeping it around. Maybe we get one more, who knows,
but I think that my guess is they're keeping this
around only because they have a contract with the Score
in Canada to air this show, and I'm guessing they'd
like to carry that over to Tough Enough. So when
Tough Enough starts and XT goes away, but it just
replaces it on the Score. It's total speculation, But you know,

(01:29:57):
I mean there's some talent in s W that you
know consequences. Creed is down there and Tyler Black and
they've got some Brett debiasis. They could make this a
fun season four as much as they can with it
with that format. But I guess we'll wait and see
tonight who that person or you know what that cast
consists of.

Speaker 1 (01:30:17):
H We'll put. You had a lot more to say
about it than I did, But I think I think
you're right and about wanting to keep that kind of
flow going and the international audience. I think there might
be some overseas markets too where it's sort of like
they watch they just you know, they want to see
that they wanted to see the women and then doing
doing their you know, being American women. I guess so
maybe they had some encouraging signs over there, but as

(01:30:39):
a format, it's it's just it's not my thing. It's
so hard to watch that be what wrestling is. So
I'm glad it's not being exposed on table anymore.

Speaker 3 (01:30:46):
Oh, it's terrible. I don't want to We've you probably
haven't seen a lot of it, but they've spent the
entire season three. It started with Michael Cole talking about
how god awful the show is, and now all you
know the other I think Josh Matthews, mox the show,
everyone on the show mocks the show, and yet they're
going to try to sell us on season four. It's

(01:31:08):
just stunning. I guess that's one interesting nugget if you're
looking for some reason to watch an XT tonight is well,
I guess this is the first time we'll we at
least scheduled to hear from Michael Cole since last night,
so we might get some follow up there.

Speaker 1 (01:31:23):
That's true that that is a good reason for me
to read James Caldoll's report or your report on prosing
Dot mat I'm I'm You've got me intrigued to read
the report on it.

Speaker 3 (01:31:34):
Ricardo Twilling. We'll be back tonight. We terminated the services
of Rich Twilling and his Mexican cousin who wears a mask,
Ricardo Twilling. We'll be filling in one more time on
commentary tonight for an XT excellent.

Speaker 1 (01:31:47):
Well, Jason, thanks so much. It's a pleasure. Is always
on Tuesdays to do the live show on the BF,
the after show.

Speaker 3 (01:31:52):
Yeah, next week week, I'm sure we'll be well, hopefully
we won't people. I'm guessing we'll be criticizing the TNA
pay per view so we have that to.

Speaker 1 (01:31:59):
Look forward to, and talking about how the Vikings have
renewed hopes for the playoffs after everybody after they won
and everyone else loses in the NFC.

Speaker 3 (01:32:06):
Yeah, I like the sounds of that. I'm not getting
my hopes up too high, but you know, hey, I'll
just take another point at this point.

Speaker 1 (01:32:13):
I agree with or without Adrian.

Speaker 3 (01:32:15):
With Adrian, I have a big fantasy game this weekend
with Adrian.

Speaker 1 (01:32:18):
Oh yeah, very good. All right, Thanks everybody for joining us,
both the dot net members and the people who towards
vat members as always until next time, Wait keller and behalf.
I was Jason Powell signing up if you missed it earlier,

(01:32:47):
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Speaker 14 (01:34:25):
Searching for more great pro wrestling talk. Then join me
Jason Powell, host of the three weekly Pro Wrestling Boom podcast.
Each week you'll hear the latest news and analysis from
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(01:34:47):
all your favorite secondary apps, or visit us directly at
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Speaker 1 (01:34:56):
Now you can subscribe to our VIP podcast lineup within
the Apple Podcast app using your Apple account. That's new
as of March twenty twenty two. Just search PW Torch
in your Apple podcast app and you'll see the PW
Torch Daily Cast logo show up. That's our free show
that's been around forever, and also the PW tors VIP
podcast logo. There is a free show every week, so

(01:35:17):
subscribe even if you don't plan to go VIP and
get a sample of our VIP tier programming. But if
you click subscribe, then you'll become a VIP member instantly
with a three day free trial, after which your Apple
account will be charged, so you don't need to take
out your credit card, debit card, or go anywhere else.
If you listen to our free shows on Apple Podcasts,
you are five seconds away from being a VIP member

(01:35:39):
with a three day free trial, so we invite you
to check it out. That includes dozens of VIP shows
throughout the week, including VIP versions of The Weightkeller, Progressing
post shows and podcasts and daily casts. All those episodes
are presented to VIP members with ads and plugs removed,
along with VIP exclusives like our post pay per view roundtables,
the Weight Teller Hotline, The Fix with toddam Wade, Everything
with Rich and Wade, and many other VIP exclusive shows.

(01:36:04):
Just search pw Torch within the Apple Podcasts app. Thanks
for listening to our podcast. Did you know we also
have a website pw torch dot com daily news updates, editorials,
and my live TV coverage covering Raw, Dynamite and SmackDown
and my live pay per view coverage for WWE and AEW.
Create a tab or bookmark make it a daily stop.

(01:36:24):
Visit us throughout the day every day to keep up
on breaking news and more. That's pw torch dot com.

Speaker 15 (01:36:32):
Need an extra dose of positivity in your wrestling podcasts?
Will come join me Alan fourrel Over in the Progress
Paradise at pterbew Torch VIP. As we mask on the
bright Side of wrestling and focus on some of the
great matches and shows from around the world, be it US, Japan,
Europe or Mexico. There's always a place for wrestlings past

(01:36:53):
in the Paradise too, and we've done fun historical shows
such as the We Love Liger series celebrating the glorious
career of Juice and thunder Lighter and our eye was
there when shows where our guests will join me to
talk about a classic bout that they were in attendance for.
We love variety and you can inspect lots of it
at the Progress Paradise. Detailed PWOW Torch VIP subscription information

(01:37:16):
on a list of all the VIP benefits is available
at pterbrew Torch vip info dot com. And yes, all
VIP podcasts are compatible with popular podcast apps on iPhone
and Android devices, or you can stream them directly from
our ad free VIP mobile site, See You in the Paradise.

Speaker 1 (01:37:36):
One benefit of VIP membership is access to our back
issue library, contemporaneous in depth insider reporting on pro wrestling
in real time over the past thirty plus years, and
throughout the year twenty twenty two, We're going to begin
our March through the year two thousand and two, with
back issues posted each week in PDF and all text formats.

(01:37:56):
You can read it in a PDF format with our
original magazine slash newsletter style layout on your screen and
flip through the pages, or you can read a straightforward
all text format on your phone or tablet or laptop.
The back issues early in two thousand and two covered
the arrival of Scott Hall, Kevin Nash, and Holkogan to
WWE and all the controversy that came with them, plus
my cover story that broke the news on the plan

(01:38:19):
to launch by Jerry and Jeff Jarrett of a promotion
called TNA. Also the early two thousand and two features
are two thousand and one Year in Review features, including
ranking Pro Wrestling's most influential power brokers and our Torch
year end awards, the Year in Quotes, and the top
fifty stories ranked in order from the year two thousand
and one. So go vip and dive into our back issues.

(01:38:42):
We have most of our back issues available as soon
as you sign up, with new back issues week by
week from the year two thousand and two, one at
a time. Throughout the year twenty twenty two, pw torch
dot com slash go VIP PW torch dot com slash
go VIP. That's PW torch dot com slash go vip
for full information and our sign up form. It's more

(01:39:03):
than podcasts. It's an unmatched library of wrestling history, spending
more than three decades as soon as you sign up,
with more issues added throughout the year.

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