15 YRS AGO: Paul Heyman's vision for TNA if he took it over, Nash's big interview, WWE Movies, more

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 2 (01:06):
Now.

Speaker 3 (01:06):
PW Torch and Spreaker bring you the Wade Keller Pro
Wrestling Podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:16):
Fifteen years ago. This week on the PW Torch Live cast,
James Buldwell guest hosted for me and was joined by
a current pwd Torch columnist, Greg Parks to talk with
live callers about Kevin Nash's interview, covering multiple WWE and
TNA topics. Also thoughts on TNA impact Paul Haman's vision
for TNA if he were to join the company. That
was a big buzz. There's a lot of buzz about

(01:36):
that at this time, also TNA's reaction with more explanation
of They in quotes Coball's booking on SmackDown, whether Doughby
could create marketable stars, to try to create comedic sides
to their stars, Japan versus US media coverage, Pro Wrestling,
TMZ marketing, Jay Wall versus Cookie, better than TNA would
book it, and much more. And then in the previously

(01:57):
VIP exclusive after show, they talk about who should first
in line to challenge Jeff Hardy for the TNA title
and what it says about teenage booking that they don't
have a strong baby face ready for Hardy breaking rights
overview and whether it's worth ordering. Predictions on the top
three matches, Thoughts on ww movies, including the Hollywood Reporter
Ripping Knucklehead, the Inevitable Stand Up for WWE campaign response,
telling the audience to stand up against elitist Hollywood movie reviewers,

(02:21):
and so much more so. Lots of fun topics here
in an hour and a half conversation from fifteen years
ago this week. In fact, this originally live streamed on
October twenty first, twenty ten, and it is today's Wade
Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast fifteen years ago flashback for Friday,
October twenty fourth, twenty twenty five.

Speaker 3 (02:39):
You're listening to the PW tors live cast. This is
PW Torch Assistant editor James Caldwell hosting today on Thursday,
October twenty first, and I'm joined by Sports calling this
Greg Parks. Greg, how are you doing today?

Speaker 2 (02:53):
I'm doing well, James, how are you doing?

Speaker 3 (02:56):
Just well? On a fine Thursday afternoon. It's kind of
a slower news day. A couple of stories here and there,
such as Kevin Nash with a pretty lengthy interview covering
a lot of different subjects TNA and WW related as
well as this is the latest full numbers of lin
Ma Man in their US Senate campaign that just came out.

(03:20):
Triple H advertised for the Fan Appreciation Day show conveniently
placed three days before election days got no kind of
minor stories than TNA Impact tonight with an ultimate X
main event. More follow up on ol Cohen and Ric
Flair and Mickey James entering DNA Impact debut. Correct. I mean,

(03:43):
does any kind of jump out to you as a
big story today or is there a bigger story this
week that you think kind of deserves more talk, Whether
it's the the Vince McMahon YouTube videos, the scene up
for ww campaign, Well, what's kind of been the biggest
story do you think today in this week?

Speaker 2 (04:01):
Well, if you're talking this week, it's definitely the stand
up for w W campaign. That's kind of I've been
discussed a lot. That's for today. I think the interview
that Kevin Nash did was was kind of big because
he's a guy who you know, lives down in Florida
and one would think that, you know, hearing that he

(04:23):
wasn't going to resign with TNA was kind of a
surprise because TNA liked the big names, and you know,
you would think that if TNA offered him a contract,
Nash wouldn't say no because it's not a lot of
work for a lot of money, and most people know
Nash's m a when it comes to that. So the
interview today that was supposed today, that that he did

(04:44):
last night with the Ringside Radio was was quite revealing,
and that you know, he didn't even get off a
contract by TNA. I think that surprised a lot of people,
given Dixie Carter's close relationship with Kevin Nash. So I
think that of all the things that have come out today,
I think that's probably the most newsworthy and probably maybe

(05:05):
one of the most five of the week.

Speaker 3 (05:06):
Even Yeah, it was fascinating to listen to that. I
listened to it twice because he did have a lot
of things to say. I want to make sure I
caught everything or listening to the interview, probably the one
thing that jumped out to me was, I mean, among
several things, but the way he kind of labeled TNA.
He said, you know, it's a small company, and he

(05:28):
was saying that in the context of they don't really
have management together. You know, they don't have they they
have a small talent relations department. He talked about, you
know last year that he I think he said, twenty
one days he went without a contract before they finally
offered him an extension. This year, they didn't even offer
him a formal offer, you know, I believe they do,

(05:49):
his views, offered something like a pay cut, which he
turned out. And this was even before they got to
the formal negotiation. So it was almost like, nashly, you
know what, I don't want to work for your company anymore.
And that was, you know, kind of the way he
said small company. Well, I mean, and we know teenage
a distant Number two is just on a smaller scale

(06:10):
compared to we But for him to come out and
say that, that was kind of an interesting comments. I thought,
and Greg, what do you think about what he said
about the youth movement? This was another one of his
big quotes during the interview, saying that he doesn't agree
with the youth movement. He thinks that the younger talent needs,
you know, years and years of ten time before they
were you know, accepted, and then people will spend money

(06:32):
to see them and see them in matches and you know,
to drop money with those top guys and house shows. Well,
what was kind of your reaction to what nashold to
say about the youth movement?

Speaker 2 (06:42):
I don't necessarily agree with it, although if anyone has
chillowed Nash's career over the years, it's not shocking that
he would come down on that side of things. As
far as the youth movement goes, I think that one
of the main issues, you know, the fans, we hear
it all the time online and even doing this the show.
And I'm sure you guys get emails. You when you

(07:02):
get emails about it at the Torch all the time,
is you know, not so much now, but a year ago,
two years ago, five years ago, WW needing to push
new talent when all they were pushing was Triple H
and the Undertaker of Shawn Michaels and that kind of
group there, and people wanted to see new stars get over.
People wanted to see guys like them Is get over,

(07:25):
and I think that people have been accepting of him
as a as a top heel challenger. I think it's
all about how you book them, if you take your
time and you know, do the way w W does,
where they don't push someone generally to the moon right away.
They usually push them, pull back, push them, pull back,
and then finally when they're ready or when they's a

(07:46):
spot opens up, finally push them. It might take the
five years that Nash was talking about, but I think
you can make a star relatively quicker than that if
you book it correctly. But then again, you know, I
have differ book the wrestling show before he Nash has,
So you know, I'm not gonna sit here and say
I know how to make stars quicker or better than

(08:07):
he does. But I don't know. I would have to.
I would have to hear more about his thoughts on
that more in depth before I would say whether I
agree or physagree with with his feelings on it exactly.

Speaker 3 (08:20):
And the one point that I definitely did agree with
was his comments on Seamus and how Shamus is booked
up as a killer heel uh. You know, for for
for months on e c W and then on Raw
he got that quick first title reign, I got a
second title reign, had the match with Triple H H
and in between their WrestleMania and then he and then
you know, he was in the storyline the cause of

(08:42):
Triple He's being written off TV. Uh. And then a
couple of months ago, you know, he, like Nash said,
he was on TV running away from Nexus and it
kind of went for a little bit of comedy with
Seamus UH and I thought that was the wrong note,
and I I agree with Nash on that point. Does
that mean that and it's the damaged goods? I wouldn't
say that much. But this week kind of on Raw,

(09:04):
we saw him in the Battle Royal and he looked
like another guy, you know, just kind of watching him
in that match. You know, he was one of the
final four in that match, but there were times where
he just looked another guy. And it's kind of standue
with Jack Swaggers. Swagger had that title run this year.
You cover that on SmackDown every Friday night, and then

(09:24):
now he's kind of shifted toward, you know, doing the
thing with the eagle mascot and it's a little bit
more of a comedy's Swagger character. I mean, are those
points now from Nash? What's your take on that?

Speaker 4 (09:36):
Definitely?

Speaker 2 (09:36):
And unfortunately, the thing I see with WWE is to
be more mainstream and to be more you know, accepted.
They're trying to mix the comedy and the drama, and
they're trying to make their performers able to participate in
all those facets of what they're putting on. That means

(09:57):
no one is completely curious all the time with few exceptions,
and you know, they they try to integrate that comedy
into different characters and Swaggers one of them. And I
don't know if I would call that comedy with with Shamus,
but although he did run away comedically from nexas right,
And I don't know if they're trying to, you know,
make these guys three dimensional and in doing so they're hurting.

(10:21):
What makes them over to the fans is that consistency
in that personality. And you know, long term is Shame
is going to be hurt by one three seconds, you know, uh,
image of him running away from Nexus. I don't know.
I find it hard to believe, especially nowadays, is anyone

(10:41):
even gonna remember that? I mean, is anyone watching a
Row every week and saying, Wow, that Shamus is the
tough guy again. And he you know, he just squashed
Evan Born again and he's in the title picture. But
that one time he ran away from Nexus, don't I
don't know if I see him. And maybe it's not
it's conscious as that, Maybe it's more subconsciously fan not
buying someone because of that, But I just find it

(11:03):
hard to believe that that one moment can ruin all
the weeks that build up before then and since then.
Was it a good move? I don't think it was.
I don't really. I think they were just trying to
put over Nextus at the time as a big deal
and a big threat. And you know, Seamus kind of
got caught in the crosshairs there, and you know they
had to sacrifice him doing something a little you know,

(11:27):
out of character for him to put over Nexus. But
you can't do that. You can't put over a guy
like that at the expense of other guy's credibility. And
you know, I hate to see that, but but I
think that's what WW is doing, is they're trying to
integrate all this, you know, making them an accepted part
of quote unquote entertainment television is integrating a comedy and

(11:51):
that drama and everything into all these characters and using
them with this and sometimes they just sometimes all the time,
mostly they don't do it the right way.

Speaker 1 (12:00):
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Speaker 3 (12:33):
It kind of reminds me of Danielbrian And that's what
comes to mind is Monday when they had him sort
of the Ladies Man. You know, he kind of starts
off with the self deprecation and then you know, he
stops on the little belllock, looks top on Ziggler and
then he dances with the divas and does the you know,
the pulled groin and I mean, you know, I'm not

(12:55):
really I'm not coming down one way or the other
on you know, that's a terrible that just kills a
character or well, that's a good way to make him,
you know, three dimensional and make him more relatable to
the audience. You know, I don't believe that, you know,
I'm not leaning towards that either. I'm kind of indifferent almost,
But what was your take well when you saw that
on Monday? And is that going to help him as

(13:16):
a w W character? Does that hurt him because it
takes the focus away from Daniel Bryant, mister butt kicker.
You know, a shorten air with the submission holds, you
know the darsenal submission holds. What how did you kind
of evaluate that presentations in my Monday?

Speaker 2 (13:32):
I just think in WWE's eyes, he's a guy who
they think they need to do whatever it takes to
give him a personality. And I think that despite all
of his advantages as an entering performer and as a
restaurant as a submission artist, I think unfortunately all WWE
season Miss Fancy is this tunnel vision of Okay, this

(13:52):
guy's popular. We don't know why he's popular, but in
order to have him on TV, we can't just send
him out there and have matches with no personnality. We
need to get a personality to get him over, to
get him even more over with the fans, so then
we can invest the more time in him. I think
it says something about him that ww is willing to,
you know, invest this time in him and try and
get some kind of personality over and not just put

(14:15):
him out there at squash room week after week, although
you know, every once in a while they seemed to
do that. But I just think, wwe see these guys
were truly really as sports entertainers, and they feel that
these guys had to entertain the audience and that doesn't
necessarily mean between the bell.

Speaker 3 (14:35):
Yeah, and I also I foresee potentially the greatest mixed
tag team ever with Brian and Gail Kim. I mean,
Brian can teach Gail how to throw a buck of
glitter and h maybe perhaps we'll get a couple of
matches on Superstars with them too, who knows.

Speaker 2 (14:51):
Yeah, that was that was awful. I had no idea
what that was the glitter. I'm like, how do you
not throw a buck? I don't know, if I don't know,
just like all that or accidentally maybe I don't know.
I think it.

Speaker 3 (15:03):
Yeah, I think I probably slipped. Maybe there's some grease
on it, maybe it was pre grease.

Speaker 2 (15:07):
I'd have to I had to. I'd had to decruit
her coment to see when her hands might go and
if there was an attempted prowler, if she had just
let go of it.

Speaker 5 (15:14):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (15:15):
Yeah, I had to go back three play, but yeah,
it was off. Before we get into to live phone calls,
of course, we want to take your calls on today's
live cast. The number to call, of course is six four, six,
seven to one nine eight. Gregs a little bit about
TNA tonight, Like we said the top of the show,

(15:36):
Ultimate X Mickey, James, More, Hogan and Flayer also a
reaction Part two of the Explanation where TNA takes an
extraordinary amount of TV time to explain the storyline that
did not make sense for six months. Uh with Eric
Bishoff hosting Reaction and going I got step by step
through all of the master playing. Even Dixie Carter has

(15:57):
been on Twitter today in character Kase Saban uh this
uh this reaction show tonight talked about er kishoffs so
low and slimy that he steals the company because he
can't build one himself. That's our relatest tweets on Twitter today, Gregor,
what's your take on on them? Devote another hour of
TV time to explaining this storyline and his plot and

(16:20):
the hostile takeover tonight, following the regular two hours of Impact.

Speaker 2 (16:26):
It's really adventures those dream come true, you know, last
week and this week it's it's explaining one of his
master plans in complete detail to kind of put over
what his genius he is for for coming up with this.
And you know, it's like somebody you know explaining to
you at a party, you know, all the good things
they've done and they say, oh wait, wait, I'm not done,

(16:46):
I've done more and here here it all is, or
you know, explaining how they found something out in excruciating
minutia of detail that in Tena's case probably won't end
up making that much sense anyway. And at least last
week they spend forty five minutes, like I said on
the Live Past, last week, explaining something without actually explaining it. Uh,

(17:07):
you know, they put all the characters in their place,
but they never really told us how they got there.
So that was a bit confusing. And I don't know
what they didn't to speak doing on reaction, if they're
going to clear any of that up or not. But
you know, forty five minutes to just talk last week
fifty fifty I mean fifteen minutes or just talked in
a match where somebody laid down for somebody else and

(17:27):
then another fifteen to twenty minutes before the match. I
mean this Christ is probably gonna frame that script for
this night episode of everything they.

Speaker 3 (17:36):
Believe in the Yeah, he wants that one leaked online
because that's his masterpiece.

Speaker 2 (17:41):
Yeah, yeah, we'll see.

Speaker 3 (17:44):
I mean, I imagine we'll get a little bit more wrestling
on tonight's show, and well it's hard to get a
last but yeah, they would have to try to deliver less.
But it's not even a matter of to me. It's
not a matter of how much you know content, how
much rust and content. It's quality of it to me.
And if you just throw matches out there, I don't
want to see that, you know, I don't want to

(18:04):
see matches whether there's no meaning and there's no hype
and there's no explanation of why this match is taking place.
I just can't get into that. It's not it's more
frustrating than joy able to watch. And I know some
people can just watch a match and you know, it
doesn't matter if there's any backstore and more power to you,
and I used to be there. But with so much
wrestling that that we've seen, it's just completely thrown away

(18:27):
and has no meeting from TNA. I need a backstory
otherwise I just can't invest in the action and TEENA
does not do a good job of that. They throw out.

Speaker 2 (18:36):
Even if there's no backstory, there's gotta be some kind
of consequences, Yeah, exactly, So, yeah, there's gotta be something,
even a finish I mean on.

Speaker 5 (18:45):
This flat that's true.

Speaker 3 (18:47):
Their TV.

Speaker 2 (18:51):
It is.

Speaker 3 (18:52):
It's just it's amazing. I don't know. So hopefully we're
gonna finish this week to their main event. I'm assuming
we will uh borrowing them just going reaction Michael, two
of the last three TV main events. So we'll see
and we'll give them a fair shot, see if they
can see what they have for us tonight, and we'll

(19:12):
break it down of course on tomorrow's live cast. But
we want to take your phone calls today talking WTNA subjects,
anything else on your mind from the world of wrestling today.
Get the number call of six four, six, seven, nine eight.

Speaker 6 (19:30):
Need an extra dose of positivity in your wrestling podcasts,
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Speaker 3 (20:35):
Hey, let's go to our first call. This is a
one one one, so I assume this is Skype or
International one one one. Welcome to the show. Please state
your name that we are from Kuiper International. You're on
the line. All right, let's uh, we'll go back to
that one a little bit later on. Let's go to
the four one five here code four one five, you're

(20:57):
on the here, let's.

Speaker 7 (20:59):
Go know James is jhon different stance LESCo, Hey Jonathan, what's.

Speaker 3 (21:02):
Going on today?

Speaker 2 (21:04):
Not much?

Speaker 3 (21:05):
I just want to get two quick questions.

Speaker 7 (21:07):
And where do you guys see the whole jaywall situation
going on? Because TMZ is kind of covering both sides
of the of the story and it looked like they
want to bring it back to TNA, which is that
means another fifteen thousand dollars to pretty much break somebody neck.
What do you guys think about that?

Speaker 3 (21:25):
Yeah, Greg, TNA is getting their fifteen k words for
all this publicity from TMZ. What's your take on this situation?

Speaker 2 (21:32):
Yeah, I don't know. It just seems like they're getting
all of their publicity from TMZ and nowhere else, And
you know, maybe that's all TNA is looking for. I
know tm I know TMZ does have a vast readership,
so I guess that's a good thing. But you know,
I guess you would be drawing the Jersey Shore fans

(21:53):
because they would be the ones that recognize Jaywaw and
actually care about her and yet they're on the exact
opposite time of Jersey Shore, So I don't know if
they're asking Jersey Short fans to choose, because I would
assume they would choose Jersey Shore, although to be fair,
Jersey Shore, I'm sure like most of them, MTV is
repeated about seventy eight times during the week, So if
they do tune in the Impact to see Jwow and Cookie,

(22:15):
then I guess they can probably find Jersey Shore that
episode some other time on MTV during the week. But
you know, I would say, based on what they've gotten
from TMZ and just be the talk in wrestling, I
would say I wouldn't be surprised if TNA didn't bring
her back. I don't know what capacity, you know, I

(22:37):
don't know that they could put her in the ring,
although they've done Stupider with unsentrained guests, so I wouldn't
surprise me.

Speaker 3 (22:47):
But I don't know, just say it.

Speaker 2 (22:50):
Yeah, No, I'm not gonna do it. I'm not gonna
I'm not gonna lower myself to that. So I mean,
I don't know what the end game would be. I
guess is what I guess the Cookie Cookie Jwyle match.
But is there anyone that for those intrigues as seeing
jaywiw Is there anyone that really is climoring for her
to be in a match? I don't know, I know.

Speaker 3 (23:12):
I don't know. I don't know either. I would imagine
that they'd actually put it on pay per view, as
as potentially horrible as that is. I mean, TMZ is
doing a just as good of a job as TNA
does at promoting matches. And if they had, uh, the
initial coverage they publicized, the first appearance, they had, you know,
the promo coming out of the fight from from Cookie,

(23:32):
they had the response from Jay Wild, you know, sort
of the daily Face comeback promo. I mean, they're promoting
this thing better than TNA would with a match, you know.
So I mean I imagine that, you know, I don't
know if they would sell pay per views. I mean,
maybe they have it at a you know, I don't know,
if Tina has an East Coast house show coming up
and they had Michigan's Weekend, perhaps they take it to

(23:54):
a house show and film it. I don't know. Maybe
TMZ covers it, foks it. I don't know, but I
have mentioned, you know, this build ups gonna lead to
her coming back on TV. You know, is it, you know,
worth the investment. I mean, if there's a windfall for
TNA where they get some extra exposure, that's gonna help.
But look at the quarter hour ratians for Thursday show.

(24:16):
You know, they start off the show at one point
five to three quarter hour number one, the end with
a one point two to three, which was for that
j Well cookie segment. And you know, I don't know
if that's just a matter of the audience tuned out
as the show went on and it had nothing to
do with what was in that final segment, or people
who were tuned in an impact got tired of waiting
around for that segment and just too now they're tired
of it. I don't know what it is, and I

(24:39):
don't know how much benefit that that she brings to TNA.
But you know, you have to publicity in places, you
might as well follow through with it. So we'll see,
you know, we'll see where that leads to him. Jonathan,
did you have a second question?

Speaker 7 (24:53):
Yeah, do you guys think that the ww raidings are
down because there's not a real emphasis on on that
actual product as a whole, like SmackDown and uh Raw
with you know, with the whole movie stuff going on,
and the Mattel deal that they got going on, and
the international deals and all this, it's like it seemed like,

(25:13):
you know, Hensmickmann and everybody else is more with the
Linda campaign. It just seems like there's so much going
on in the WWE right now that you know, Raw
Raw really only has one real good, uh you know,
segment on there, and that's Nexus and John Cena. And
it seemed like that whole that story line is carrying
Raw by itself and that that can't be good for

(25:35):
wrestling just as a whole.

Speaker 3 (25:38):
Yeah, good question, Greg, what's your reaction.

Speaker 2 (25:42):
I don't think it is you know, Vincent Man maybe
being pulled in all these directions with with the different
deals and stuff like that. On the TV deal, international deal.
You gonna remember, he's got underlings to handle a lot
of this. Uh, you know, his main focus, I'm sure
is still creative. And you know, even if it's not,
and even if he's distracted by all the stuff, the
linim is Manned stuff, the stand Up for WWE campaign,

(26:06):
you know, there is still a rather large contingent of
a creative team that that's sole responsibility is to churn
out hours and hours of w w E t V
each week, and despite all the deals, all the distractions
that that could take away time from some of the
higher ups in WWE, that shouldn't change their job of

(26:29):
putting out TV. So I don't think that's a reason
for the ratings decrease. I just think it's it's a
combination of a lot of things, and I don't see
w W w W recovering from it anytime soon unless
they have some sort of major philosophy switch. And I'm

(26:49):
talking mostly about the change from PG, and I don't
I don't really think that's going to happen anytime soon.
I don't think they're going to consistently lose viewers, but
I don't think they're going to add it mean by
going to PG as they've been doing. So you know,
it's a given take. You know, it's it could be
a slow build where they go down and then they
they've finally come back up after a few months. As

(27:11):
far as the ratings goes the PG format, you don't remember,
it hasn't been that long since they've been in PG
as far as you know in the wrestling business, So
it it's gonna take some time to get their footing
with that, and when they do, I think they'll be
a little better off.

Speaker 3 (27:28):
I think.

Speaker 2 (27:30):
I don't think that they're going to change back from
PG after Linda inevitably loses this campaign. I know there's
a lot of speculations that would happen, but I'll see it.
I think they're in the PG for the long haul
just because of you know, the licensing deals they get
from it and stuff like that. So it's gonna take
some time to build that audience and get them used
to PG and stuff like that. But uh no, I

(27:53):
don't think the outside distractions are really a factor in
the lower TV ratings.

Speaker 3 (27:59):
Yeah, he said, there's a combination of a lot of
different factors. I think. You know, at that top, at
the top of that list, it feels very safe, you know,
it's feel a safe, predictable product, you know, and predictable
doesn't mean bad.

Speaker 8 (28:13):
It just means that you kind of.

Speaker 3 (28:14):
Know what to expect, you know, how it's gonna play out.
Some weeks, just you know, it's pretty pretty good. Some
weeks it's not so good. You know, like this week
was okay, wasn't great. It definitely felt like this week's
show was the product to be a very distracted company
in a very preoccupied company, especially.

Speaker 2 (28:33):
Within you don't feel, like you said, it's very very stagnant.
You don't feel like you miss anything, Yeah, if you
don't tune in. And I think they're they're trying to
turn that around at this Job Scena next to Tangle,
almost like getting viewer to think, Okay, what is next?
Is gonna make Jobscenna do next? And is this week
he's gonna turn heel and dry next to for the
inside fans. And I think they're trying to cultivate that

(28:55):
sense of not unpredictability, but just simply you know, wondering
what's going to happen this league where too many times,
you know, life like this, Lely Raw, I can barely
remember anything that happens, you know usual. Yeah, Yeah, usually
I say that about Cana, but for differently mostly it's
two hundred miles an hour and I can't. It's not
to you know, take it all in, but to me

(29:17):
we leave. It seems like their their program is musty
and and that's the problem. Yeah, but there's not so
many other choices out there.

Speaker 3 (29:27):
No, Yeah, you're You're not other thing. It's a lot
of its habits being broken. You know, there's a lot
of other fall programming.

Speaker 2 (29:33):
There's football.

Speaker 3 (29:34):
Uh. There there's a lot of compelling TV that offers
bits and pieces of what raw uh used to offer,
you know, I mean it's kind of what they could
offer those sort of like you know, you know, just
compelling matchups. I think that's one of the big things
that's missing from Wrong. It's just building up towards compelling
matchups with a system anticipation that you know, this matchup

(29:57):
is gonna be a big deal. Uh, and you don't
get that since you get the sen said, w's throwing
out a lot of just kind of throwing up matches
to to sort of say to USA Network, Yeah, you know,
we're giving away big matchups and we have you know,
Randy Orton and Johnson as a tag team this week. Uh.
It's almost sort of it's more serving USA Network rather
than your pay per view buyers. Uh, just trying to

(30:18):
keep that rating up, and I think they get caught
up in the week the week of trying to keep
the rating up and in this case this fall recovering
from a ratings allies that they give away so much
and it kind of kills the uh the specialness, the
uniqueness of seeing two top stars the ring together, uh
mel Kine and and Randy Orton. Mean give away on

(30:40):
SmackDown this Friday with you know barely uh a commercial
doing raw. I mean it was barely even mentioned during
the show. Just giving away your your two top champions
and a TV match right before a pay per view.
I mean that's something you could really build up toward
it a you know, all over to WrestleMania and they're
giving away in five six days.

Speaker 2 (30:59):
Yeah, And as hard as this is to believe, is
this a man still running the company. It feels like
WWE just doesn't know what it wants to be. It
wants to be a PG product, but it's still a
wrestling company, but it's not. It's sports entertainment and we
do comedy and we do drama, and we are you know,
out there in the smack Down your vote and we

(31:22):
do this and we do that, and it's a company
that like, it's it's hard to say that they're they're
struggling to find an identity because it's WWE and it's
you know, the brand out there for pro wrestling. If
you ask any joe off the street what w W
w w F is, they're gonna associated with the wrestling.
And it's tough for me to say that they don't

(31:45):
have an identity, because that's their identity in the marketplace,
but it feels like they are still internally searching for
an identity of what they want to be and how
to balance that comedy and that wrestling and that drama
and that you know everything, And I just feel like
if they're off.

Speaker 1 (32:00):
Kildare, anytime you're watching ww E Raw or SmackDown or
AEW Dynamite in particular, send us an email if you've
got thoughts on the show or a topic you want
us to address or a question for us. Wade Keller
Podcast at pw toorch dot com, Wadkeller Podcast at pewtorch
dot com. If there's anything else going on in pro

(32:22):
wrestling that you want us to address on our main
podcast during our mailbank segments, that same email applies Wade
Keller Podcast at pw torch dot com. We invite that interaction.
Let us know what you think of what we're saying,
and let us know what you want us to talk
about and ask us specific questions. Wade Keller podcast at
pw torch dot com.

Speaker 3 (32:43):
Yeah, it's like they want to be Hollywood. They want
to be a TV show, you know, sort of a
scripted reality show. They want to be an action movie.
They want to you know, they want to offer all.
They want to be a comedy, they want to be drama.
They don't. Yeah, they don't have an identity and they
have an inferiority complex about being quote unquote wrestling. I
mean every single time that that w B does a

(33:04):
sort of corporate press cover or a presentation to investors
or at some of these you know small business conferences
where they tell, you know, random people who are there
at a conference, you know, what are what is w be?
And they say, well, you know, wrestling doesn't give us
the credibility that we deserve because we're movies and we're action,
and we're TV show and we're uh magazines and we're

(33:27):
a you know, we're on YouTube. Blah blah blah.

Speaker 2 (33:30):
They're the detective all trades and after if non.

Speaker 3 (33:33):
Wow, that is profound, Greg, great point, Thank you. I'm
gonna put that. I'm gonna put that in there in
the recap.

Speaker 2 (33:38):
So uh, I've made it to their recap.

Speaker 3 (33:42):
Yeah, I can't. I can't top that, but that that
nails it. It does gonna you know what Eric Bishop
always says, you know, neither fish nor foul and they
don't have an identity. So great point there. Uh, Jonathan,
thanks for that call. Great call. We appreciate that again.
At the top of the hollury where you're listening to
the P to B Torch live cast, that says P

(34:03):
t B Torch Assistant editor James Caldwell, hosting Today with Torch,
calling this Greg Parks. Let's go to our next phone
call from the nine to one oh area code.

Speaker 8 (34:12):
Here.

Speaker 3 (34:13):
This is Ian out of Tennessee, and how are you
doing today?

Speaker 7 (34:17):
Yeah?

Speaker 8 (34:17):
He you know, does handle book for five in North Carolina?

Speaker 3 (34:19):
Oh, I got y'all to uh area codes mixed up
and we'll go ahead with us.

Speaker 8 (34:24):
Okay, Yeah, I'm the first t I wanted to, you know,
ask the day right here. Okay, do y'all think that
can know that the ideas that Paul Haman had for
TNA forward as you know, you know, getting rid of
the old guys, you know, and I'll get some fresh
news faces or whatever. Do you think Dixie Carter had
the fame of mine that you know, did the same
thing that Scott the Moore was really his own or whatever,

(34:47):
and she felt like that was a failure and she
she didn't want to rid that chance of Paul Hayman,
which I.

Speaker 3 (34:52):
Think about da So hend of your question is kind
of what are our thoughts on what Haymon was? You know, well,
what he's kind of putting out there's what you wanted
to I guess change about the company? Is that kind
of your question?

Speaker 8 (35:06):
Well, you know, I think that she was comparing you know,
his direction with Scott, the more direction of pushing you know,
more of the younger generation whenever he was a booking
TNA and out with a failure, and she probably spaying
the same thing with Paul Hayman. What'd you think?

Speaker 3 (35:19):
Oh? Good question? Yeah, Greg, what's your reaction to that?

Speaker 2 (35:22):
You know, the landscape is a lot different now than
it was when Scotten Moore was booking h You know,
SKNA is certainly more visible there. You know, they've topped
some good ratings lately. So I don't know if that's it.
I think I think, more so than Paul Hayman's vision
was she didn't want to give up that control that
Paul Hayman wanted. Uh, And I think that was the

(35:44):
sticking point, you know. And she could be it could
be something where she sides with Nash and says, you know,
Hayman's got these ideas to turn the company over to
all the young guys, but you know, like Nash says,
it takes years and years too to tell us that,
and we might not have years and years and Spike
TV decides to pull out or if you know, Pandamity

(36:05):
decides to pull out, Uh, we got to kind of
go with the floor right now and kind of work
in the younger guys, but still has the veterans on top.
And that might be the way she thinks, kind of
similar to what Nat was saying is interviewed today, So
you know, that could have factored into her thinking on
Paul Hayman. But I think for the most part, it
was more that she does didn't want to go up
to control as far as hiring and firing to him

(36:27):
more so than his vision.

Speaker 3 (36:31):
And I think that Hayman probably would probably would have
come in with not just okay, let's just let's just
push AJ and let's push Joe and let's put them
in pay review main events with no real you know,
you know, no real juice behind him. I think he
would have come in and totally changed the way they
branded these stars.

Speaker 2 (36:52):
You know.

Speaker 3 (36:52):
I think that a lot of today's wrestling is the
formula is I guess stuck maybe his right word stuck
in the two thousands and the late nineteen nineties, the
Attitude era in the way that stars aren't presented and
the way matches are presented, and there hasn't been a
change to the way that wrestling is marketed and presented.

(37:14):
I think Hamian would have come in with a vastly
different approach to present the wrestlers. I think he would
have emphasized matches and matchups and anticipating matchups and kind
of showing those characters in real life settings where you
get to know who that character is and then you
want to follow, kind of what Nash said, you want
to follow their career. You want to you kind of

(37:36):
get attached to that person's career and you want to
see what they're going to do next. And I think Hayman,
kind of what he's been doing with the UFC stuff
for EA Sports, he's kind of shown that he would have.
I think he would have taken this marketing approach to
TNA and main these stars more marketable in year twenty ten,
not the year twenty or nineteen ninety nine, and it

(37:58):
just you got for wrestling to be successful and to
grow and for teenage to survive, you've got to change
the way you market these stars. And I think we
saw a little bit of that with Jay Lethal on
Reaction last week. They did a lengthy segment on him
kind of outside of the ring, made him more relatable. Unfortunately,

(38:19):
it was on Reaction and it was at the very
end of Reaction when nobody was watching. But these are
the type of things that you put a little you know,
put a little spice on it, add some variables and
make those characters come to life, and you've got something
there beyond the traditional method of introducing characters and matches
that nobody remembers because you don't hype it or build

(38:39):
a sense of anticipation to see that match. So I
think it's more than just how he would have booked.
I think it was a completely different philosophy of how
to market wrestling that he would have brought to TNA
and that's what they need, and they have a little
bit of that with Reaction. The problem is that, you know,
the reaction is talking about stuff that nobody understand. I mean,

(39:00):
they have a great tool, but the product is such
a mess that it doesn't really matter what they're talking about.
It doesn't it doesn't mean anything. So if you were
to combine Bishoff's reaction vision with Hayman's marketing vision, then
you would have had something and then they probably could
have taken off. So I think that's that's kind of
the missed opportunity that t and they had right there. Greg,

(39:24):
anything else add to.

Speaker 2 (39:24):
That, No, he just sounded up pretty well, James.

Speaker 3 (39:28):
All right, cool, A good call, Hannibal, great topic to
bring up, and uh, I definitely wanted to to kind
of mention that as well. Uh so good good to
bring up, Hayman. And uh let's go ahead and go
to our next phone call. I believe this one is
Ian out of Tennessee. Ian. How are you doing? Say?

Speaker 8 (39:45):
I did, How's it going?

Speaker 3 (39:47):
Very good? I jumped the gun on getting you on
the air. But you, you and hand him have the
same almost the same area code. That's why I confused
you too.

Speaker 9 (39:53):
Well, I recently wasn't a call and asked class now
was just looking or listening to.

Speaker 3 (39:59):
The show, but then you mentioned my name, I might
as well reverse psychology. I wanted to get you on
go ahead, Well, good because this is a nice talks
I've had my wizard Oh no fun, Yeah, but no.

Speaker 9 (40:15):
Well, I was listening to the East Coast cast, uh
from I believe it was yesterday, and the caller had
mentioned how w w E was going seemingly out of
their way to just destroy Cabal, and I wanted to
kind of relate it to what you were talking about
with Seamus and Daniel Bryan and and it just really

(40:37):
seems like they're they've killed off a really good prospect
for no real reason.

Speaker 3 (40:45):
Yeah, Greg, I mean you cover this on Fridays. You've
seen in you know, a couple of weeks of Cabal
on TV. What's your ticket? What they're doing with them?

Speaker 2 (40:53):
It is so much of what they did with Daniel Brian.
But we can always look back now and say, look
where Daniel Brian is now, you know, United Statesion. He
doesn't have a bad role on Raw. So because of that,
I'm kind of willing to see where this this copal
thing plays out. I mean, listen, I couldn't have been
any less happy than I was. I'm smacked down and

(41:14):
watching that and seeing and I'm sure you know, I
doubt WWE thinks enough of the Internet fans to pull
something like this directly geared toward them. But I can
imagine the uproar that went on when caval gets the
place on the Bragging Rights team. So we finally get
to see we get to see him on pay per view,
and then all of a sudden, the rug gets pulled

(41:35):
out from under us, and not only does he lose
his spot in the Bragging Rights team, he loses it
to Tyler rex who's making his triumph at return to
WWE after completely flaming out in ECW. And it just
boggles my mind that they saw I mean, this is

(41:56):
I don't I can't explain it. Why they would give
Tyler Rext this spot. It would be almost like bringing
Ricky Art's back and giving him this spot. I mean,
he he did just as bad, if not worse than
Ricky Ortiz on ECW, and now he's on the bragging
Rights team at Bragging Rights and I just cannot fad them.

(42:18):
What made them make that decision unless they needed their
version of Santino Morella, because I don't really know what
went into WW putting him on the team on or either,
so part of me thinks it's just a rile up
the internet fans or the you know, the indie fans
who like cabal and but part of it is also

(42:38):
I think playing into this losing streak gimmick or whatever
that he's got going on now, and I think down
the road he'll be in for a little better push,
but right now he's got to quote unquote pay his dues.
As per Pro Wrestling Gospel, Apparently.

Speaker 10 (42:57):
In twenty twelve, NXT transitioned into the developmental system and
ultimately the brand you see today. On the Torch Vip
podcast NXT Eight Years Back, we'll be taking a weekly
look at this page in.

Speaker 11 (43:10):
NXT's early history. Join Kelly Wells and me Tom Stout
from p WT Talks NXT every Saturday as we go
eight years back to the day to track NXT's rising
talents and why they did or didn't work out exclusively
for p W Torch Vip members.

Speaker 3 (43:28):
Yeah, I think it's one of those ego check type
deals and obviously you know, we could be seeing him
in match with Raymond Sterio and either you know, as
a tag team. Well you know, they could always turn
him here and have a few with ray which has
always been talked about. Yeah, I think it's just an
ego check stage, and it's unfortunate when you you know,
he's got that momentum coming off NXT season two and

(43:50):
they really haven't capitalized on it. But you know, he's
got I think he's got you know, pretty lengthy you know,
assuming everything. You know, he stays healthy and you know,
kind of keeps his nose clean in the locker room
and and adhere's all the quirky backstage politics and and
ways you're supposed to walk around and shake the right
people's hands, as long as he kind of keeps himself good.

(44:13):
You know, he's got about you know, five ten years
ahead of him in w W, i'd imagine. So you know,
it's just an ego check stage, I believe, and kind
of what everybody goes through, you know, especially if you're
quote unquordt internet darling, which WW has puts that label
on him. So you know, well, like you said, Greg Tyler, Rex,
really you know, I just I don't understand that. But uh,

(44:34):
I guess he's been sitting backstage for a year now
doing nothing except working dark matches, and they figured, well,
what what the heck, let's go ahead and put them
on TV. It's just the lack of planning that goes
into that is what's is what's bothers him to me,
And it's kind of reflective of Doughby's lack of long
term planning in general, and we see that almost on
a weekly basis. Now, Uh, he has good call. We

(44:56):
appreciate that. Let's go to the five five nine eerie
code five to nine. Welcome to the show. If we
steach name where you're from? Hey, this is Steve, California.
Hey Steve, what's going on today? Hey?

Speaker 2 (45:08):
Not much?

Speaker 3 (45:08):
I was just, uh, do you guys think that the
raw rating this coming week will go up even higher
just because nobody's gonna be watching the pay per view
and they're gonna want to know what happened? Very interesting, Greg,
what's your reaction.

Speaker 2 (45:23):
I've you know, never thought of it that way as
far as the ratings go, whether they've gone up in
the face of low virus, well, because the bier ATE's
coming so far, afterward and needed to go back and
look at the rating at the buyer it really flopped.
So that's kind of hard to do. But it is
something interesting to think about.

Speaker 11 (45:41):
You know.

Speaker 2 (45:41):
I think you'll we'll definitely see if a lot of
people tune in at the beginning, the first fifteen minutes,
the first thirty minutes, when most of the results are
given away, and then we see more than a gradual
tune out, I think we'll get our answer there. But
it is something interesting to think about. And I don't
know if there's you know, anyone's ever looked at those
statistics to see, if you know, after a big buyer

(46:04):
a dip, if the ratings have gone up the next
day based on interest because people aren't buying the pay
per view.

Speaker 3 (46:12):
I'll consider that a nudge for a project. I'm always
I'm always in a favorite projects. That's something I'll try
to look up and research at some point this year.
I can't commit time wise, but anyways, I think that,
you know, we kind of saw this after Hell in
the Cell, the raw ratings shot up with a lot
of interest to see kind of John Cena's first week

(46:32):
as part of Nexus, because there's a lot of buzz
coming out of Hell in the Cell after seeing a
loss that match to Barrett and what would be forced
to join Nexus. So that rating went up this Monday.
You know, it might depend on whether there's any buzz
coming out of out of Bracken Rights, and you know,
I don't know that there's really that that type of
matchup other than you know, let's say Wade Beard won

(46:53):
ww title and John Cena did a full out heel
turn at the pay per views now becoming the only
real buzz worthy I mean to that level of you know,
John Cena's first week is part of Nexus, that kind
of buzz worthy item coming into Raw and also raws
up against a really compelling Monday night football game with
the train Wreck Cowboys in the New York market team,

(47:16):
So that's going to you know, that's gonna make a
difference that that might kind of even out the you know,
people who did it order the pay per view and
then tuning in a month to find out what happened.
That might kind of even itself out and they might
just be at that three point zero level. It'll probably
depend on what happens on Sunday, if there's any buzz
that's major coming out of that pay per view. It's

(47:38):
just a how hum, you know? Another pay per view
on the calendar. Then I don't think it's gonna do
much to help roz rating on Monday. So yeah, that's
them we'll look out for, and maybe a project that
I'll work on too. So good call there, Steve, appreciate that.
Let's let's go to a couple more phone calls again.
Gonna jump on the phone lines and join us on

(47:59):
the live cast today. There listening to us live. The
number to call is six four six seven two one
nine eight two eight, and let's go to the eight
six five eery code eight sixty five. Welcome to the show.
Please stay to name where you're from.

Speaker 5 (48:15):
Hey, what's going on guys?

Speaker 3 (48:16):
Stephen Frost, Hey, Steven, what's going on today? Nothing much, man, I.

Speaker 5 (48:21):
Just uh wanted to get a quick call into his
an honest you guys, and asked this question.

Speaker 2 (48:27):
Sure.

Speaker 5 (48:27):
I started thinking the other day if uh, because I
talked to it under death Steve Williams before he passed,
like I had a hand to meet him. He did
a benefit over here in Tennessee. He talks about how
in Japan, you know, the sport is really respected, Like
he says, you know, the crowd is really really quiet
to they see a move that was really good or
took a lot of tiller deal, that's what they'll send
up in a pod and all that's happened to respect

(48:49):
the sport, I guess is the word to put it
as professional wrestling, whereas here as the whole of America,
people who kind of look down and wrestling as all that,
you know, it's fake, it's stakes fighting. They don't really
ever take a sport. So I kind of look at yet, didie.
What do you think the difference is. I mean, I
know the culture different, but what I think difference is
as far as like people are like in Japan and Europe,
where they looked at the respect that what in sport,

(49:09):
that is wrestling, where as ever hearing in America as
people look at that that cartoonist, cartoonist fake stuff.

Speaker 3 (49:15):
Yeah, I think that. You know, there's a couple of
main factors. One is that in Japan it's covered like
a sport. You know, it would be the same as
if you know, if you has to today were to
put uh, you know, last night's match results in the
sports section for all you know, it's covered like a
legitimate sport. It's not sort of covered as an entertainment show.

(49:38):
You know, you would see, you know, the equivalent of
last night's box score would be in the paper the
next night. So it's thinking more seriously in the way
it's covered. Also, you know, I think a lot of
it on the American side, it's it's all you know, wow.
When when they took a national it was so much
more about sort of the pageantry and the entertainment aspect
and the loud character than you know, Georgia animals, steel,

(50:02):
you know, kind of characters like that where they don't
look like athletes having a fight. You know, they look
more like kids, you know, bushwhackers, kids who sort of
I mean, I'm sorry, wrestlers are kind of appealed toward
kids that aren't really having a competition. You can kind
of see through it. It's kind of silly sometimes, you know.
That's kind of the roots of how the American culture

(50:23):
has taken it in general. Obviously, there was a boom
period in the attitude era when it was hip and cool.
When it's not hip and cool, then the general public
coup looks down on it because of the way it's
presented in the way it's covered. So I think those
are those are the two main factors that have always
kind of held through Greg. What's kind of your thought
reaction to that.

Speaker 2 (50:42):
Yeah. The other thing I would say as far as
the media covering is is I think WWE has come
out and it's been obvious the way that references and
books as well, that they have no qualms about saying
it's entertainment and not all sport. So for it to
be covered by the media as such, you know, it
would be impossible because you know, I don't know if

(51:04):
that's that. I don't think that's part for the course
in Japan, where they, you know, are willing to expose
that hey, yeah, what we do isn't real, and whereas
in America that you know, bend the rallying cry for
for ten years, especially during the Attitude era. So you know,
the coverage, the coverage in Japan allows fans to take
it more seriously. But it's just it can't be done

(51:25):
in America now. And also just look at the you know,
look at the way people act at sports teams, in
I rock concerts and stuff like that here in America,
and it's the part. For the course, that's the same
thing that they how they act at at the wrestling event.
So you know, it's not just wrestling or fans that
act like that. They act like fools and you know

(51:47):
generally go crazy at other supporting events and other arena
type events. So you know, it's not just pro wrestling
where that happens in America, but it's that kind of
experience that brings that out in fans in America, and
that's you know, that's something that that can't change either.
Again part of the culture.

Speaker 3 (52:07):
Yeah, and w B doesn't really you know, kind of
protect the the the integrity of the product. You know,
if it's I mean, if you watch on TV, you
can I mean even if you have no idea whether
I mean, let's say you're you're your a ten year
old kid and you have no idea if it's real
or fake. I mean there's I mean there's every single show,
on every single wrestling show, there's something that you kind

(52:29):
of go Okay, well that's obviously not real and and
I mean for us, we kind of suspend our disbelief
just to or.

Speaker 2 (52:35):
If you're watching n XT several times per show.

Speaker 3 (52:40):
Yeah, Yeah, the entire show pretty much. You're right, yeah,
I mean you can kind of see through that and
and we suspend our disbelief to uh to kind of
evaluate the show and how it's presented. And I can
remember how read about this, and I believe it was
in the Saint Louis book that Larry Madison road and
how we talked about the sports writers in Saint Louis

(53:02):
they covered it in the seventies and the sixties like
it was a legit sport, you know that they covered
like the Cardinals or the Blues or you know, whatever
the sport was in town. That they covered it like
it was a sport because much Nick you know, protected
that the product, and it was always presented as a
shoot and everything was protected like a sport. You know,
that was how I was presented. And obviously the Saint

(53:25):
Louis sports writers knew that it was it was you know,
it was fixed and the matches were not, you know,
a legitimate outcome and they were predetermined. But they covered
it like a sport because that's how the promoter promoted
it so that they didn't look stupid for saying, you know,
so and so beat so and so, oh well with
a dramatic match and then the dramatic you know, pulled

(53:46):
out for the victory from the jaws of the feet
type deal. You know, That's how I was presented. That's
how the audience understood it to be at that time.
So part of it is how you presented it. Is
if W were to say, if W were to change
the entire way they present their product, and the probably
when they don't do that is I don't think people
would buy into it because of how many years they've

(54:06):
said it's a show, it's entertainment, it's it's kind of
tug in cheek and we're just a live action movie,
you know, and they acknowledge they have writers, you know,
the cats out of the backs. I don't know how
many people would you know, take it seriously as a
sport if that's how they changed it to present to
be presented. So then just kind of the way it's presented.
It's a lot different here than in Japan. So good question, Steven,

(54:31):
A good topic to bring up.

Speaker 1 (54:38):
You don't have to wait for the way Keller Pro
Wrestling post show to find out what I thought of
Monday Night Raw and SmackDown each week. You can check
out my reports that are updated live throughout Raw and
SmackDown at pw torch dot com. My written report will
tell you what's happening in detail in case you missed
the show, and it will also analyze key segments and
give my random thoughts quips on what I am watching

(55:00):
as it airs. So check it out every Monday night
and Tuesday night at pewtorch dot com. That also applies
to WWE pay perviews. I cover those live at pw
torch dot com with a detailed written report with star ratings.
And of course you can find other TV reports from
other contributors to pw torch such as nxt roh, Impact
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(55:22):
your first stop four TV and pay per view written reports.

Speaker 3 (55:34):
Let's go to Let's go to another phone call. This
is from the seven o three area code. Seven oh three.
Welcome to the show. Please say your name where you're from.
Seven oh three. You're on the air. All right, We'll
try seven oh three again later on. Let's go to
the two one seven area code two one seven. Welcome

(55:57):
to the show. Please say your name where you're from. Hi, guys,
I'm Ryan from Chicago. Hey, Ryan, what do you first say?

Speaker 2 (56:05):
Good question.

Speaker 3 (56:06):
Bruce Prichard obviously just got in with TNA. Is there
any word on his involvement going forward? Vince Russo is
finally going to be picked aside somewhere, hopefully in Memphis. Uh.
You know, I haven't even asked around about this, but
I'm have to ask around about Greg. Have you heard
anything about specifically Pritchard's involvement through a couple of shows

(56:29):
now pay per view and two TV taping.

Speaker 2 (56:33):
I think he helped produce some backstage stuff. I don't
know if this is the pay per viewer at the
Impact tapings, and I believe he said it on the
agent's meeting. You know, this may be I think I
read this from Jason Powell. Maybe, But as far as
being heavily involved in creative as of right now, I
don't believe that's the case. And I don't believe he's

(56:53):
a candidate to take over for miss Russell as uh
as emphatic as Ryan seemed to be about why and
that change. I think you're gonna to wait a little
longer for someone to come in and take over for him.
I don't think that's why he's there. It thinks he's
way too loyal to events Russell for that kind of

(57:13):
drastic change that he made, But I wouldn't be surprised
if you know, he did freak him in slowly with
the with doing backstage pre tapes and stuff, and eventually
he worked his way onto uh, at least some part.

Speaker 3 (57:24):
Of the creative team. Yeah, and that's kind of what
Ed Ferraro was doing, was he was doing the backstage
because I can remember the specific sign up, but I
believe he did help produce the backstage promos or at
least wrote them. So that's probably what Pricher's taken over,
because you know, when Ferraro left, that was an added
workload onto the creative team, which was just Russo and

(57:46):
and Ed Conway. So Prichell's probably taken that over, some
of those duties over. Is he gonna replace Russo nine
times soon? I don't think. I mean, like you said, Greg,
Dixie is loyal to Evince for whatever reason, and you
know she has her reasons, I'm sure, but I don't
see him taking over unless he does some major power play.

(58:09):
It kind of gets gets a little bit more power
coming into TNA, So I don't see it happen immediately,
and lets russo just will only you know, volunteers to
step aside and step down. But I don't see that happening, Ryan, quick,
quickly back to you. Any other follow up for another question?
Just one more question now, I'll let you guys go
with the whole new faction of the Immortals and and

(58:30):
fortunate and everything going on right now with TNA. Do
you see any potential scenario where the show would rename itself,
you know, something along their lines. You know how the
nWo at one time almost took over w CW with
the sold out show and everything like that. Do you
think there's any way that they would storyline wise change
the name of ten A interesting thought? Maybe this is

(58:52):
how they get to they change the name of the company. Finally,
I don't know, but Greg, what what's your you know?
How far do they take this? It's kind of like
the same thing with Johnson, you know, you know, I
guess for a lesser extent, but you know, how far
do they take the nexus alignment with Sina? Do they
have them come out and standard next to where and
drop the scene of merchandise and then with this, how

(59:12):
far do they take the quote unquote hostile takeover by
the Immortals and fortune.

Speaker 2 (59:17):
Well, well, you have a non wrestler like Eric Bischoff
who is in charge of the entire company and is
on screen in storyline. I think it's inevitable that they're
going to try and garner as much power as possible,
and included in that is changing things, you know, skewing
them towards the Immortals, and you know, making a TNA

(59:40):
Impact edition, all of Mortals editions, so every match has
one or every stegment has a member of the Immortals,
and everything like that. An entire name change I just
don't find. I just don't find that the higher ups
the TNA are keen enough on it, on the idea
of a name change to do so. If I guess,

(01:00:01):
it would really show the power of Bishop in the
storyline if he wants to change the name of TNA,
and it would get some people to buy into it, certainly,
But I don't see it happening, just simply because while
it would be a good excuse and a good time
to change the name of the company, I think if
you have a heel change the name of the company,
you'll have a lot of fans resenting it and resenting

(01:00:23):
the new name, and it would be hard for them
to warm up to it. So I think that is
one reason why it may be a bad idea. And
I just don't think it's gonna happen because I just
don't think there's the support court within TNA as far
as management.

Speaker 3 (01:00:36):
Yeah, I mean, was it. I guess remember this year
when when Dixie did like some Q and A on
Teenage's website or I guess, I don't know where was that.
There was some quote where she talked about, well, we
put so much marketing behind the letters T and A,
and we like to name nowhere exactly you know, at
some point going to cut your losses. It's say, okay,

(01:00:58):
we've plotted with his name because connotations that it has,
we got to change in kind of losses.

Speaker 7 (01:01:03):
You know.

Speaker 3 (01:01:03):
That's you know, I don't care how much marketing you
put behind it. At some point, you're not going to
grow with that name. So yeah, the exactly right, right,
that's always That's kind of stood out to me this
year is one of the one of the quotes of
the year from the business savvy TEENA management. Good call, Ryan.
We appreciate that let's go to the seven O six
area code. Seven O six. Welcome to the show. Please

(01:01:25):
see your name where you're from anyway?

Speaker 8 (01:01:27):
This is from Georgia.

Speaker 3 (01:01:29):
I didn't catch your first name.

Speaker 2 (01:01:30):
What was it?

Speaker 12 (01:01:31):
Ron from Georgia?

Speaker 3 (01:01:33):
Hey, Ron, what's going on today?

Speaker 13 (01:01:35):
I had a t NA question. Sure, I know a
lot of their storylines are getting logistically worse.

Speaker 12 (01:01:41):
Do they do?

Speaker 3 (01:01:42):
You think they don't?

Speaker 12 (01:01:42):
They'll ever just pull the plug if.

Speaker 3 (01:01:43):
They get that bad, pull the plug, as in like
change the creative team or Spike TV comes in and
says we're taking you off the air, or.

Speaker 12 (01:01:52):
You know what what I like, some of the storylines
just get so bad and they just keep running the
ball with them. Well, they just I mean, just going
with the bable this. Maybe I don't mean necessarily a
creative change, but just like pull the point on the storyline.
They just realize that it's that bad, like the Vey
storyline with the logistics of Jeff Hardy joining or kind of.

Speaker 3 (01:02:12):
Like Samoa Joe being kidnapped and sending his little video
messages from a bunker and a warp, you know, in
a battlefield or something of that. Yeah, I mean, obviously
there's precedent for that. I mean, like, you know, Greg,
like we've talked about this throughout this year of how
Samoa Joe's character has been presented, and they finally just
dropped that.

Speaker 2 (01:02:28):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (01:02:29):
I don't even know how to describe it. But the
kidnapping and his his little messages and having a machete
and or not a machete but a knife and trying
to kill people. But you know, Greg, is there there
are a couple of storylines or one or two or
three specifically that do you think they'd just say, Okay,
we give up on this, let's just start over and
reset again.

Speaker 13 (01:02:50):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:02:51):
You know they've they've done that in the past. Uh,
you know, probably more so than then they'd want to admit.
I don't know if that's because they sense that it
wasn't going to do actually wanted and you know, just
kind of cut bait rather than continue on with it.
If so, I would have liked to have had some
explanation to tie it up. But you know, as far
as the day storyline goes, I think, you know, when

(01:03:14):
you put the pieces together, there are enough pieces there
that makes sense to you know, salvage it. I don't
think it's a terribly bright angle, and there's there are
certainly holes in it, but I think there is enough
to hold it up as a legiti angle to the
point where I don't think, you know, putting the plug

(01:03:34):
will is probably ever considered.

Speaker 3 (01:03:38):
Yeah, I think that they're trying to evolve that into
sort of the the Immortals Unfortunate group and trying to
get away from I think that's kind of why they
quickly renamed it. They kind of dropped these Day and
they went just let's just go and rename it immediately
and kind of get away from all the day connotations
and that and that storyline build up easy too. And

(01:04:00):
they're gonna be on tonight's show, but I imagine that
that might be scrapped soon enough, and perhaps they just
take a couple of individuals, whether it's Timmy Dreamer, Saboo,
Raven Rhino, Stevie Richards, whoever it is, and and it
just kind of create a I don't know, the spin off,
uh spinoff tag team or group, and it just kind

(01:04:21):
of get away from the ev to uh name and
the shore line and all that that contains. It just
kind of had its had its time. I mean, I
don't even think it really had its time, but it
did have its time in TNA, and it doesn't really
have that effect anymore. It doesn't really mean much more now,
So perhaps they drop that Eric Young and Oleno Jordan.

(01:04:42):
They can scrap that tomorrow will all be happy and uh,
you know that those kind of the some of the
things that come to mind to me. And they kind
of dropped the biker the biker chick thing with Tara.
That was because they revealed who she was. So those
are those are several that come to mind. But run
any other any other question follow up for quick?

Speaker 13 (01:05:03):
Yeah, just like just and just not really a knock
on a byss or anything like that. But Wimbally is
starting like maybe doing something else with him, Like I mean,
he starts to come off a lot of dead weight
now and just hit over and over again to no
reaction or anything like that anymore.

Speaker 3 (01:05:18):
Yeah, we're making a bits fits in TNA.

Speaker 2 (01:05:24):
I don't know. I think Ron is right in that,
you know, a lot of the pay per views I've
lost for he's been pressed into a main event action,
you know, as a babyface especially, I don't think he
was getting the reaction they wanted to, especially he got
that big run as you know, Hoping's second coming, and
I think that flopped immensely. You know, I think his
character is better off as a heel, as a serious heel,

(01:05:46):
rather than kind of the dumb, plucky baby face character.
So I think they can work with him as a
heel more so than.

Speaker 3 (01:05:52):
A baby face.

Speaker 2 (01:05:54):
I'm not a big fan of his entering work. I've
never seen somebody get whooped into the buckles slower than
he has, and that lay places back into the term buckle.
I mean, it's just little things like that, you noticed.
But yeah, he doesn't do much for me, but I
think they can still make money off ten seconds.

Speaker 3 (01:06:10):
I want to thank everyone for joining us on the
Lidcast today. Tune in again on a Friday where we
wrap up the week and talk about impacts.

Speaker 4 (01:06:20):
Are you a nostalgic wrestling fan? Do you want to
hear about shows you haven't seen in ten, twenty, maybe
even thirty years. Well, I have the show for you.
I'm pwtortch dot com contributor Frank petty Ani, and since
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Together with a rotating chair of co hosts, we go
back and review old shows from top to bottom, talk

(01:06:41):
about where the wrestlers were at the time, and compare
what's taking place now to what took place. Then you
can hear this so along with other shows as part
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Speaker 3 (01:07:20):
Thank you for using blog talk Radio. Goodbye, all right, Greg,
We're now in the VIP after show portion of today's show.
What did TNA talk today? I guess with TNA coming
up tonight, a lot of people kind of I mean,
do you give a sense that there's an anticipation for
you know, kind of week two of Immortals and Fortune

(01:07:41):
and the merger? Is it? Uh, just kind of a
curiosity and to kind of find out what happens next.
But what do you think the buzz level or the
interest level is for tonight's show.

Speaker 2 (01:07:51):
I don't know. I feel like we always get more
calls on TNA than WWE, So I guess I didn't
notice the terms today.

Speaker 3 (01:07:58):
Yeah, you know, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:08:00):
How many fans last week's show turned off. I think
the curiosity effector will bring some fans back. We're still
looking for an explanation. This might be the last straw
though for some of them. And certainly I think they
got a lot of buzz from the show, negative or
positive based on the lack of wrestling, So I think
they're I don't think they'll pull a rating as high
as last week's, but I don't see it dropping a

(01:08:23):
whole lot. And last week's rating, I'll say again, really
surprised me at how high I was. And you know
that that should buy CNA some more time. That should
buy Vince Trews for some more time. That should buy
a lot of people in Cana a lot more time.
And I think they should. You know, the ratings dropped
throughout the show and stuff like that, but the fact

(01:08:44):
they got that many eyeballs even on the show, I
think it is an accomplishment. Yeah, it was.

Speaker 3 (01:08:51):
I mean, I give him credit for an accomplishment last night.
They I mean last night last week, they were able
to create a lot of buzz for that show. It
was kind of you know, you know, the night after
Rustlemania always kind of has that same thing. And obviously
a teenage at a much smaller scale, So I don't
know how much of that was a credit to you know,

(01:09:11):
this is, you know, the night after our biggest or
the show after our biggest pay per view or buzz
over finding out what exactly happened to bring up Bring
Bring together, Hardy Bishoff, Hogan Vins and Jared's I mean
credit there for having something to hook viewers on, But
I don't know they hooked the viewers for anything this week.
They didn't really announce anything last week. There wasn't to

(01:09:33):
follow through to see how to see how this hostile
takeover to you know comes about. I mean, you know,
Dixie Carter can leave you the charge along with with Samoa,
Joe and the Pope, and I guess mister Anderson because
he hasn't really have anything else going on. I don't
know that there's a strong conting of babyfaces led by
Dixie Carter that's going to oppose this group to make

(01:09:58):
it interesting each week. I don't get the sense that
TNA pointing the legwork to build up some strong baby faces,
you know, like a Sting in nineteen ninety six when
Sting you know, started appeared to the rafters, and he
could have helped. He helped drive that wholew angle because
of the mystery behind him, and he was a strong character.
I don't get the sense there is that character in
twenty ten, you know, I don't.

Speaker 2 (01:10:19):
I mean, it feels like it feels like a miss
Master of baby Faces.

Speaker 3 (01:10:23):
Yeah, that's a great way of putting it. You know
that I'm even looking at you know, we put up
the question of the day today, which was who should
be the first baby face to challenge Jeff Hardy for
the title? Kind of who's that? Who's that first baby
phase in line to step up to the plate kind
of opposite the new group? And uh, you know, twenty
five percent for Joe, twenty three percent for RVD, twenty

(01:10:44):
percent for the Pope, thirteen percent for mister Anderson. There
isn't that clear? Gosh, I can't wait to see this
guy challenge for the title. Gosh, I can't wait for
this baby face to step up. That just isn't you know.
And they didn't put the legwork in to establish that.
So uh also that's to you, bro, who do you
think should be that first baby face to step up

(01:11:04):
and challenge Hardier or just going to challenge the group
in general.

Speaker 8 (01:11:09):
Well.

Speaker 2 (01:11:09):
In response to that, Paul TNA would respond by saying, well,
we're doing our job and keeping you guessing as to
who's going to be, you know, getting that title. We
don't want to be predictable. We don't want to set
some one person off to you know, do all the
work for the Baby Faith team. We want the Baby
Faith guys to be equally you know, looked at my
fans as possible challengers for the title, and I think

(01:11:31):
TNA would look at that as a good thing. And
I think intrinsically there are some good things there about that.
But I agree that you do need a leader, and
I think they're going to go with Rob van Dam
as that leader. Do I agree with it or not?

Speaker 3 (01:11:46):
I don't.

Speaker 2 (01:11:47):
I think he's the best of the bunch they have available,
but he just doesn't exude that strong that personality, and
that I mean his entire character. His entire career has
been it's laid back who just kind of goes out
there hit spots. And now you're asking him to stand up,
be a leader to the sport that's taking over TNA

(01:12:08):
and really get angry about it and angry enough to
do something or to lead this group against Holgan's Immortals
and that goes against the character that he's played all
these years, and I don't know if the fans would
have set him as the.

Speaker 3 (01:12:23):
Yeah, great point there. Definitely agree with that, definitely indeed. Yeah,
So we'll see what happens since tonight's show. Fascinating impact
is always this week with with week two of Fortune
and Immortals as a unit, greg two of the topics
that we'll hit on today before we wrap up brigen Wrights.
We talked a little bit about this last week on

(01:12:45):
the live cast and whether they had sold you on
that pay per view with with one more week of
TV the full team w E roster adding in Daniel
Bryant and and Baal Ziggler as a kind of a
bonus undercard match. Did they do anything else this week
to sell you on the pay per view or is
it sort of the same of it's kind of a skippable,

(01:13:05):
not really intriguing pay per view.

Speaker 2 (01:13:08):
I like the possibilities of Dolphin Nigler versus Daniel Bryant.
But in the last week, WWE has added these Ekiel
Jackson and Tyler Rex to the Bragging Rights team.

Speaker 5 (01:13:20):
Sorry, but that does not give me excited.

Speaker 2 (01:13:22):
About the pay per view.

Speaker 3 (01:13:25):
Yeah, I mean, Ezekol Jackson, he's fine. And obviously they
got him over that Battle Royal with having him eliminate
everyone to I guess try to make it seem more
intriguing that he was added to the team. But I mean,
there's no fan fear. They just kind of threw him
out there on stage during the player introductions.

Speaker 2 (01:13:44):
You know, it's like he wasn't even the last one
to come out, and they didn't even like to play
it up. And it's smart they didn't play it up
as a big moment because people would have crapped all
over because it's just as Zekiel Jackson. But you know,
because they didn't play it up as a big deal,
it didn't come off as a big deal, and it's
just like, oh, Jacksons on the team now, great.

Speaker 3 (01:14:02):
Yeah, exactly, And there wasn't that sense of anticipation to
find out, and like you said, perhaps they didn't want
that anticipation, but it kind of goes back to the
lack of planning. If they would have put on TV
a couple of vignettes, you know, you know, five weeks
worth of some some intriguing vignettes where you don't know
who they're talking about, and still maybe the audience would

(01:14:23):
have been disappointed of as Ezekiel. But there's a way
to pull it off where you build intrigue for this
this character's returning and you don't really show who it is,
but it seems really fascinating, and maybe you show them
in the shadows kind of uh, you know, doing power
stuff in the gym, you know what I mean, And
then he's revealed as a team member and you think, oh,

(01:14:44):
that's kind of intriguing because they build it up ahead
of time.

Speaker 2 (01:14:47):
Well, to be fair, it sounds like the plan was
to go with Mark Henry in that role, so yeah,
that sounded like a last minut swift, so that wouldn't
have given him the chance to do all this filled.

Speaker 1 (01:14:57):
Up obviously like the back, guys, thanks for downloading today's show.
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(01:15:18):
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Speaker 3 (01:15:40):
Yeah, and like I said, it kind of goes in
I grez on that point definitely, and it goes to me,
goes to the point of the lack of long term planning,
which is they didn't know who they wanted, or I mean,
they knew they wanted, but they're kind of forced to
change last second. And when you don't really plan ahead
of time, as w typically does not anymore unless it's
Russell Mainier SummerSlam season, you're kind of forced to change

(01:16:03):
in the fly and it doesn't really come across it
intriguing all the time because there is no anticipation for
who that seventh man is, so for things like that.
So yeah, I mean I guess that they handled it
as they could with that last second change, but I
don't know predictions for bragging rights, which we'll get the

(01:16:25):
top three matches very alive with Ward Heavyweight Champion Kane
versus the Undertaker. Does uh does the Undertaker lose this
match and get written off until WrestleMania.

Speaker 2 (01:16:37):
You know, it's so easy to say, yeah, that would
be the way to go. But just take her lose again? Uh,
you know right, And he didn't lose cleanly, you know,
to Caine, but it would make sense for tak her
to lose here and the OXI WrestleMania and you know,
who knows, maybe reprises to the Pain or WrestleMania again.

(01:16:59):
So that was one of the things I was talked about.
The other thing is he would lose here and continue
the feud with Kane. Although he looks extremely weak losing
three times in a row, He's gonna continue, you know.
I see if he wins here, I can see the feud.
It's strange as it sounds. Take her winning and winning
the bell. I can see the feud continuing more so
than if he lost, Whereas usually you know, once the

(01:17:21):
Babyspace reaches that pinnacle and reaches the title, of the
feud kind of goes away and he sets something up
with it with another opponent. So I don't know. I mean,
my first instinct is they take her wins, but I
don't know. I guess, James, I've have to see the
cop out, have to say. I'm gonna say, I gotta

(01:17:44):
make a decision here. It's just it's just taking a match.
I shouldn't be coming it hot on as much. I'm
gonna say take her, but you know I'm not. I'm
not confident at all in that. But I feel like
I need to make a pick.

Speaker 3 (01:17:54):
And if they take all right, so take her wins,
which means they have to have a match because came
win of the rematch. Did they give that away on
TV or do they go all the way to Survivors
series with.

Speaker 2 (01:18:05):
Yeah, that's a good point and another another reason, another
reason why I think it. You know, I take her wins,
the feud is more apt to continue. So yeah, I
feel a little better about that one. Not not as
you mentioned that, I completely regret about the infamous rematch clause.

Speaker 3 (01:18:21):
Yeah, I didn't even start. When did.

Speaker 2 (01:18:26):
The rematch clauses? I mean, it's it's almost accepted not
TNS even doing it, the rematch clause?

Speaker 3 (01:18:31):
And when did that?

Speaker 2 (01:18:32):
When did that all start as being an accepted thing
as part of these contracts the wrestlers quote unquote sign.

Speaker 3 (01:18:39):
I think probably back in the territory here is that.
I think it's been around for a long time as
far as I.

Speaker 2 (01:18:44):
Guess, like in the mid nineties and even even in
the early in the Attitude era, I don't remember the
rematch clause coming into play as much as it does today.

Speaker 3 (01:18:55):
I want to research that now. I have two research projects,
which when did when did the rematch clause? Coming to
the fact that that's because we just accepted as standard
now And yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:19:05):
Like I said, I it's it's always felt like to
me as something that's been more modern than than back
in the day. And I'm sure they did use it
back in the territory days. You know, it's smart move,
but I feel like it went away for a long
time in the earlier mid nineties, especially in WWE, and
I feel like it's back full force now that you know,

(01:19:27):
every time the title change, his answered that rematch clause
and you just didn't hear that, you know, ten to
fifteen years ago.

Speaker 3 (01:19:34):
Yeah, I think that during the edge here is always
that sort of that idea of well, I had it
written to the contract that if I lost the match,
I would have an automatic rematch, you know, that was
that was and now it's that is. Yeah, yeah, and
now it's just it's standard. Yeah, you're right, uh huh
yeah yeah. I'll have to look get up, We'll get

(01:19:54):
the correct research team on that and try to find
an answer for that. One good good question there, All right,
all right, two projects say, don't be Champion Rady Orton
versus Wade Bearer to the match that has hype been hyped.
I mean, I wouldn't say terribly, but they've barely been
on screen together during the hype of this that they've

(01:20:15):
more been hyping Wade Bear than John Cena. Uh. Orton,
I don't think has much momentum at all as champion
right now, just kind of a sense of Washington ra
all week by week. But who do you think wins
this match? And how does Johnsena get involved in the proceedings.

Speaker 2 (01:20:32):
I'm gonna say Ordon wins because they just changed the title.
You know, I could see them forcing Sena to help
Barrett win the title, but I think Sena does something
accidentally where he has enough plausible deniability where he he
costs a bear at to win, but he has enough

(01:20:54):
plausible deniability to not get fired. And I think that's
how it'll happen. I got off on the Tanta and
I didn't hear your your prediction for Cane versus under
pick yourself. Let me hear Kane Undertaker and Orton Barrett.

Speaker 3 (01:21:07):
Now I'm going with I've got to go with my gut.
My gut says Kane wins, Taker, gets bart alive, and
he comes back right before WrestleMania, or even a surprise
insur in the Rumble, and he wins the Rumble, and
and then you know Kine is still the champion. He
goes on to win the Rumble. They do the rematch

(01:21:27):
part four at WrestleMania. They put the streak versus the
career on the line and Kane's careers on the line,
and there is no rematch clause because if Kane loses,
then his career is done and he cannot get a rematch.
So there you go, Greg, that's my that's my prediction there.
And Orton Barrett, I totally agree with what you just said,

(01:21:49):
which is Orton wins, seeing it has plonsible deniability that
he tried to help Barrett win, but he you know,
he didn't do enough to really help him win. And
I don't believe there. I don't believe there's a no
DQ or no count out stipulation. Maybe it's just straight
up so I mean, if Sina gets involved, there's not
a DQ. I mean, Orton retains, so maybe that's how

(01:22:14):
they have or retained is seen and tries to get
involved and he gets in invertently gets Barrett d Q.
Or maybe there's a a rough knockdown and Barrett demands
scene it involved and the referee comes to and you've
seen involved.

Speaker 2 (01:22:27):
Yeah, that's hell pop up by rates a major world
title matches ending in this coffic cantions that pay per view.
That's that's that's really a heal thing.

Speaker 3 (01:22:35):
That's always been a winning formula. Yeah. Uh final final
big headline match is Team w B led by Ezekiel
Jackson or Santino. I'm sorry, Team Raw that's SummerSlam and
then probably Survivors Series again. But Team rawle led by
okay them is against Team SmackDown led by Big Show Keim.

(01:22:58):
SmackDown is stacked compared to Team Raw. Uh so that
I mean the kind of their second to deck In
in SmackDown's favor, which to me means that team Raw
wins this. I thought Monday's Raw was just a mess
in terms of who's likable and who you're supposed to cheer,
because you had uh SmackDown as the heels because they're invading,

(01:23:22):
but they're led by a baby faced Big Show and
Raymond Sterio. And then you had Raw presented as the
baby faces, but they were led by Heel miss and
so the whole thing was a mess to me. I
think at one point in the show, you know, it
was sort of the Raw vers SmackDown deal where Daniel
Bryan is opposite Biggler, and I think we actually got

(01:23:42):
like ten seconds of silence from Michael Cole because what
was he supposed to do. He's supposed to be propping
up Raw. But Daniel Brian's on the offensive, I mean,
and he represents Raw versus Tiggler, So what does he do?
So the whole thing's a mess to me. But uh,
what is your prediction for how this thing goes down?

Speaker 2 (01:24:00):
I say Raw wins mostly on the strains of what
happened on Raw, with SmackDown getting the better Raw in
the initial face off and then the Battle Royal as well.
And if I had the SmackDown one last year, of course,
you know we've still got to go Home show for SmackDown.
I haven't read the spoilers yet, so I don't know
if maybe Ron gets the upper hand there and then

(01:24:21):
you know, the kind of evens things out it's going
into the pay per view or what. But based on
what I've seen now, I would go with Raw.

Speaker 3 (01:24:30):
Yeah, I go with Raw too. And if you kind
of look at this as a series, SmackDown one last year,
Raw wins this year, they do it next year. Hopefully
they just end the brack and rights concept all together.
So I'm pretty sure Raw wins this. I don't I
don't know who leaves them. I don't know Morrison and
miss Maybe. I mean they don't have that strong babyface

(01:24:52):
character that's you know, really over is a strong babyface
on that team. I mean, Morrison is found as good
as they have and then they have shamous heel ms
heel Ezekiel. I guess you could build him up. They
want to do that. Santino's comedy Our Truth was came
to get into Canada being the go home show. Who

(01:25:14):
Am I missing that that's six or that seven.

Speaker 2 (01:25:18):
One time? Yeah, see Santino ar true with Morrison.

Speaker 3 (01:25:27):
At six, and man, I came might have to go
to W dot com to find this out.

Speaker 13 (01:25:35):
I'm gonna be you there.

Speaker 3 (01:25:37):
I go to I don't take the line up every
single week, and I can't remember the seventh person the
team W has. I have to get through all of
their stand up and celebrities and fan appreciated seem punk.
Of course that's ironically because.

Speaker 2 (01:25:56):
I associate him with backdown, So I didn't even think
of exactly.

Speaker 3 (01:26:01):
Yeah, and even when I put together the pay per
view lineup, that was the person I couldn't remember when
I was traveling the seventh person off the top of
my head. I had to go even want to put
together the paper VIW lineup after Monday show and how
to go to W's website to figure out what the
seventh person was. I did not guess Punk.

Speaker 2 (01:26:15):
And the weird thing is just kind of a side
note to this is especially on Raw. If you're you
know you said that Raw doesn't have a strong baby
face presence and you've got miss who at a great heel,
but he's really in danger of becoming that cool heel
and he's getting it. Seems to me, he's being more
and more cheers and by making the captain of Raw

(01:26:37):
and putting him in a position to lead, especially on
Raw this past week where Raw is you know, the
de facto babyface squad. You know, you're you're in danger
of encouraging more and more cheers for him, and that
might set him up for you know, a babyface against ww's.

Speaker 3 (01:26:54):
Will kind of, And they don't need that, I mean, miss,
they need to keep him heel for a while, and
then they've got to establish him as a heel character.
And that's why I was kind of down on the
way they presented this whole Robert SmackDown deal on Monday.
You just you don't need to be positioning him as
a babyface. Yeah, it's way too early. They need to

(01:27:16):
continue pushing him as a heel and get him over
that way for a year, two years, three years, like
Randy Orton was. It's just it'd be way too early
to start going for those two years. So again bragging
Wright's failure with the way it Miss is presented.

Speaker 14 (01:27:32):
So longing for some nostalgia or maybe you want to
learn some wrestling history, don't miss the Nineties Pass cast
every Friday on the PW Torch Daly Cast Feed. Alex
and Patrick will transport you thirty years into the past

(01:27:52):
by taking you through the Torch issue from that very week.
Follow news from the WWF and WCW and all the
happenings from across the wrestling industry in real time as
The Torch reported it thirty years ago. That's the Nineties
Pass cast every Friday on the PW Torch Daily Cast Feed.

Speaker 3 (01:28:19):
Greig's final topic before we had closed out today, knuckle ahead,
come out this weekend. I'm sure you're gonna be driving
to New York City to go watch the movie. Wait
you're not. Oh my goodness, can't believe this.

Speaker 2 (01:28:30):
Oh ya, all these years we spent doing audio and
you don't know me at all.

Speaker 3 (01:28:38):
I bring this up because as I was perusing my
email before the show, came across a review from the
Hollywood Reporter, the Esteemed Hollywood Insider publication. And I'm gonna
read the first two paragraphs of the review of said movie,
and I have the advanced screener. I've not watched it yet,

(01:28:58):
but I will be watching it this weekend. The pub
wish my review on a pbtorch dot com. But here
are the first two paragraphs of the Highwood Reporters review
of Knucklehead, coming out this weekend in approximately six theaters
as of the last count. Here's what they have to say.
Even the target audience of kids and rustling fans are

(01:29:19):
bound to be turned off by Knucklehead, the latest ill
fated attempt by WWE to parlay the appeal of one
of its resident stars onto the big screen. This lame
comedy about about a big dufis who enters the fight
game manages to take every cliche in the book and
render them even more cliched. The the fast talking hustler

(01:29:43):
who turns out to have a conscious after all, the
nun who can kick serious butt when necessary, the demure
female chaperone who suddenly strips down to bron panties during
a bar fight, and the four hundred pounds plus behemoth
who is just a kid at heart all year, and
more in this witless exercise. Greg, what's your reaction to

(01:30:06):
the review?

Speaker 2 (01:30:07):
My reaction is it was the exact same complaint about
Legendary is It's just written with cliches and there's nothing new.
There's nothing imaginative. It's just cliche piled upon cliche. And
that was what you know, the few reviews that were
out there for Legendary, we're saying about that movie. So
it's it's almost like w W is you know, not

(01:30:29):
really thinking too hard about putting these movies out and
not really bringing a lot of creativities on the table,
just wanting to get them out and get their their
sports entertainers into the liveline.

Speaker 11 (01:30:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:30:43):
I don't know where the're getting the scripts from, you know,
I don't know if it's just the chiefest script they
could find. And so I just put together a bunch
of cliches and said, here you go, WD, here here's
a movie. Obviously there are these are low budget films
or aimed with the PG devo spoil of cliches, and
the main objective is just to get the stars on

(01:31:05):
on on the big screen in six theaters.

Speaker 8 (01:31:10):
You know, I haven't seen this.

Speaker 3 (01:31:11):
I haven't seen the movie yet, so I you know,
I can't comment on the specific sement, but I imagine
that's how a lot of these movies are gonna be.
Is just cliched and and and so unimaginative. And even
the I'm trying to find the story that I even
covered the store today. On John Cena's fourth movie, The
Blood Brothers. I believe it's what it's called, and I

(01:31:32):
just looked at the synopsis. I thought, this sounds like
such an interchangeable movie that you can put anybody in
any of these roles, and it's the exact same movie
that we've seen over and over again. You know, I'll
kind of I'll pull it up here. So I wanted
to read it because it just made me laugh because
it just sounds so basic and dry and oh, we've

(01:31:54):
seen it before.

Speaker 12 (01:31:55):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (01:31:55):
It says in the film The Clearing Brothers that would
be John Cena and his two brothers take dysfunctional families
to a new level. Sam and Leto have grown up
hating each other and neither likes their juvenile, delinquent kid brother,
to whom they've only been recently introduced. The sons share
the same father, a womanizing drunk, but they all have
different mothers. A requirement of the will is that the

(01:32:16):
three estranged siblings go into business together. Their first job
is to bring a pro violator, a b who has
left Leo, a bail bondsman with a two hundred and
fifty thousand dead. Their search will take them to the
mountains of Mexico, where they encounterate drug lord and uncover
a kidnapping plot masterminded by an embittered entrepreneur that will

(01:32:38):
endanger them all. I mean to me, I've seen that movie.
You know, it's not it's not in Genuita, it's not new,
it's it's just it's it's a movie that I've seen before.
I mean, I mean, what do you how do you
react when you when you read a synopsis of that movie.

Speaker 2 (01:32:57):
Greg Well, I will see your synopsis for Blood Brothers
and raise you. Bending the Rules the Eedge movie was.
I was on WWE corporate website today, don't ask me why,
and I came across the Bending the Rules cast announcement,
which was put out August twenty seventh, and I was
just kind of going through it here, and I didn't

(01:33:18):
really reach the synopsis because I came to the character
that Edge Blades, and his name is Nick Blades. Yeah,
I mean really.

Speaker 1 (01:33:29):
Call it.

Speaker 8 (01:33:30):
That is the name.

Speaker 2 (01:33:31):
He plays a detective named Nick Blades. How am I
to take that seriously?

Speaker 3 (01:33:36):
I mean, really, NICKI B. NICKI B is with me
the nickname, I'm sure.

Speaker 2 (01:33:41):
And I know, you know, I was talking with my
rumored about this that you know, I know, Blades is
a legitimate last name because there's a linebacker in the
NFL h B Blades played for a couple of years
and maybe the Redskins and and whatnot. So you know,
it's a little that last name. Ohew, it's okay, Yeah,
so I know I recognize lasting. But to me, it's
just it's just ridiculous. You're just asking for eye rolls

(01:34:04):
and and you know it's nick Blade. Really, I couldn't
even read the rest. I couldn't even read this an
outs there. I'm like, okay, yeah, that's that.

Speaker 3 (01:34:13):
That just killed it for you right there, right I did.

Speaker 2 (01:34:16):
I mean, I don't know. I don't know. And they
want to be picking seriously in the genre, and I
just don't see if they keep on the piece they're
how they're gonna be take it seriously?

Speaker 3 (01:34:27):
What can they do realistically? I mean, they have these
low budget films, they have stars, they have they want to.

Speaker 2 (01:34:34):
They want to make they want to make money without
spending a lot of money. They're not gonna spend a
lot of the script They're not gonna spend a lot
on location shoots. I mean, they shoot most of them
in New Orleans. Uh, you know, and they're not gonna
they just want they don't want to quick turn around
from you know, in theaters so they can say it
with in theaters and then putting it right up DVD.
That's where they can make the money on it. And

(01:34:56):
you know, I'm it feels like they're not in being legitimate.
That feel like they just want to make a quick fuck.
But then again, that goes against everything ww has been
saying and you know, been acting like WWE always wants
that mainstream acceptance. Yeah, they don't seem to be doing
enough in this case to even come close to garnering it.

Speaker 3 (01:35:16):
Yeah, and the only mainstream attention they're getting right now
is negative. You know, these reviews coming out, Legendary was
ripped and Knucklehead doesn't appear to be on the right
track as far as reviews go.

Speaker 2 (01:35:28):
You know what I mean what needs to happen is
you and I and all these fans of WWE need
to stand up to these elitist movie reviewers who are
you know, putting down WWE because they don't get it.
And you know, we need to write to them, and
we need to stick up for WWE throughout their putdowns.

Speaker 3 (01:35:47):
I can't wait for Vince's latest YouTube video standing up
to Roger Ebert and the Hollywood Reporter. And there is
these elitist movie stobs who have the audacity needed to
give a terrible review to a great production name of Family.

Speaker 2 (01:36:00):
And that's the worst part. Any kind of valid criticism
that might be out there is just written off as, Oh,
they're just out to get us, And that's that's the
sad part. And I don't know if they ever take
that kind of criticism legitimately into heart and really think
about it without you know, being reactionary and knee jerk
and saying, oh, they're just criticizing us because you know
we're we're a quote unquote wrestling company.

Speaker 3 (01:36:23):
You'll get a yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:36:25):
So I don't know if they can ever really take
constructive criticism without feeling offended and reactionary.

Speaker 3 (01:36:33):
Like it's a personal attack. Exactly right, right, yep? All right, Greg, Well,
I think we have hit on what a lot of
subjects today got to use. Got the w movies in
there too, Any other final thoughts before we wrap up
today no.

Speaker 2 (01:36:50):
I think that was a perfect way to end.

Speaker 3 (01:36:53):
Stand up for w by writing your local newspaper when
they put out their review of Knuckle Ahead. I guess
that's probably That's probably the next call from McMahon and
the YouTube video is to write your local newspaper. There
you go, all right, Greg, great talking to you as always,
and we'll look forward to your review of SmackDown on

(01:37:16):
Friday night. The final height for bragging, right, So that's
coming up here on peptorch dot com. We're gonna thank
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