5 YRS AGO FLAGSHIP: Keller & Powell: Keller & Powell talk Reigns-Heyman early dynamic, Balor-Cole, Dynamite rating, Omega-Page, Impact, more

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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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(01:51):
the Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast five years ago. This week,
on the Way Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast, Flagship Episode I,
was joined by Jason Powell from Progressing dot Net and
the Progressling Boom podcast to discuss the Roman Range, Paul Hayman, Dynamic,
Finn Balor beating Adam Cole for the NXT title, the

(02:11):
aw Dynamite Rating, Kenny Omega and Adam Page, Impact Wrestling, WWE, restricting,
wrestlers making money on the side, playing video games, and
more current events discussion. This originally dropped on September tenth,
twenty twenty and it is today's Way Keller Progressing podcast
five years ago Flakeship Flashback four September tenth, twenty twenty five.

(02:34):
All right, Jason, so far, so good for me on
the Roman arrangs he'll turn I was. I think with
safe thing it's a he'll turn now, and I'm cool
with Jaus was the first challenger. I think that just
elevating somebody who wasn't in the picture to be the
first opponent, to be the fall guy who has this
built in backstory with Roman rains works. I like the
dynamic of Paul Hayman sort of being subservient to Romans,

(02:57):
so Romans more the alpha. I think that suits him
as a heel act. All in all, I give them
an A grade for what they did on Friday, and
I'm just excited we don't have to wonder about Roman
going here like we'll forever have to wonder about John
Cena going here.

Speaker 2 (03:11):
No kidding, wasn't it nice just to have a good
episode of Smack. I can't even remember the last time
I thought, Hey, that was a good show, and I
actually did on Friday, and a lot of it was
what they did with Roman, and I like the j
Usso program. I always hope that if Roman turned, we'd
get the USO's aligned with him. But who's to say

(03:32):
we don't somewhere down the road. So yeah, they're off
to a really good start.

Speaker 1 (03:36):
Yeah, what did you in particular like about Roman's act?
Because it could have gone in a variety of directions.
I mean, there was no it could have been a
lot of things, and I thought this play just really
well into what I expected would be Roman's strengths, given
what it was about him that the average male fan

(04:00):
did not like that sense of I'm a phony, I'm
a core I'm just a corporate guy spewing outlines. But
in truth, I couldn't be bothered to care about you,
and it actually is impossible for me to even pretend
I care about you. But look at me, I'm a star.
I may invented WrestleManias, so therefore, since I made invented WrestleManias,

(04:21):
that justifies me main eventing WrestleManias. And really, I'm just
rich and I just care about my family. I don't
really care about you, like he gave off those vibes
to people. I'm not saying it was fair. I'm not
saying it's unfair. I just think that was sort of
the reason people boot him. I think what they did
with him on Friday tapped into it. It showed me
an acknowledgment of one probably the most natural character for

(04:43):
him to play, and two it tapped into amplifying what
it was for years that rubbed people the wrong way
about him.

Speaker 2 (04:50):
I want to hear it from him. I don't blame
the age. One week and I assumed we'd hear more
from him. In week one, we didn't hear much from Roman.
But I want to hear that promo from him that
we all know is inside of him, just waiting to
explode on fans who rejected him. I want to hear
some of those things you just said come out of

(05:11):
his mouth, or at least imply certain things that for
me is going to it's really appealing. And and again they
didn't have to do it all in one week, but
I hope we get that. I hope it's not just
ile Roman can't talk. What's that Paul do all the work?
Because they've never really given him a true chance to
prove whether he can be that guy that can carry
a good promo. They've just overly protected him time and

(05:33):
time again and overly scripted everything. It's those weeks where
he got to be himself. That's when he connected with people.
I think he's got it in him to be a
good heel promo. I Haymen, I get it's going to do.
You know, probably the majority of the talking, and that's okay.
I hear from Roman himself. I think that's really important
that they get there.

Speaker 1 (05:53):
In my report on peterldetorch dot com on Friday, I
said something similar. I said, I fear the ratio of
Haymond or Rains talking will be like this always, But
I'm hoping we get something closer to sixty forty with Rains.
I want him to develop his heal promo skills over time.
And yeah, I'm fine with sixty forty or sixty five
thirty five, but you know, Paul can talk two thirds,

(06:14):
but give me Roman Reigns flexing his his promo muscles too,
and building up strength over time. Yeah, I definitely want
to hear more from him, but if it's a slow reveal,
and you know, I'm okay with that too. You know,
if it's a slow rollout, I thought. I think a
lot with Rains is going to be body language and

(06:36):
demeanor and tone, and his body language demeanor in tone,
even going back to that NXT promo of looking at
his watch that I've pointed out as like the example
of why I think he'd be a great heal the
way he talked about Jay, like, oh, you know, I've
been texting you, calling you what's up? He goes been
busy like and it was it was the least he
could pop. It's the least he could have said to

(06:57):
his cousin, like the very least. He didn't act like
he was sorry. He didn't even act like it's worth
my time to pretend I'm sorry. He completely disregarded raise
how Jay would feel about him blowing him off. He
didn't care if Jay knew that he was blowing him off.
And I love that, Like, because I don't think you

(07:18):
should test Rains's acting in a way that you might
with others. I shouldn't say test, but push his acting
range to where he has to start being phony. I
like the idea that he can't even be bothered to
be phony because part of his what made I think
fans boo him was he couldn't even be bothered to
seem to care about the fact that he was being booed.

(07:38):
We know he did, you know, he said it. It's
not his favorite thing. It's kind of a little perplexed
by it. But it didn't seem to ultimately bother him
a ton, and he never showed it on air. So
the idea that he would continue that with Jay now
and be like, eh, you know, I don't care. You know,
I've been busy. You know, you're not worth my time
to even explain anything.

Speaker 2 (07:57):
Usually hew it handle Bruce Mitchel, Yes.

Speaker 1 (08:00):
Yes, So with with Rains and Jay, do you expect
I mean, we're you know, always out here. But is
this just Rains wins and they move on or do
you think this is the beginning of something more with
with USO's or J. Yeah, so go, yeah, you Jay's
just there to there to be the bodies for Rains

(08:21):
to showcase what his heel style is and get a win.

Speaker 2 (08:24):
I think yeah, And I think it makes sense at
this point. I mean, if they want to make it
a competitive to not bury J that'd be great. But
if this is sacrificial lamb, I like this a tag
team wrestler, guy who's most likely going to remain a
tag team wrestler once his brother comes back. I like
him being that guy, and it's you know, there's the

(08:44):
family connection there, which is great, and you know, again,
it's better because I mean the alternative is, well, Matt
Riddle is going to be the sacrificial lamb or because
I mean that's just what they do. They would waste
somebody in this spot that they shouldn't win. Or this
is one you can get away with. Again, if assuming
the long term plan is for the USOS to go

(09:06):
back to the tag division, you can maybe you can
stretch it out. I mean, maybe Roman goes crazy on
him and it just sets up the need, you know,
after the match, and it sets up the need for
Jay to try to get some revenge. You may be
able to do that, but my guess is just kind
of a one and done.

Speaker 1 (09:20):
And that works for me. I don't think putting him
against a top level competitor at this point or challenger
makes sense because a first opponent I think makes sense.
I think it makes sense to have the first opponent
be somebody he can just plow through who you have
this instant backstory with so. I actually I thought that
was really smart to take that approach. Again, this is

(09:42):
a September pay per view. This isn't Rustmania season, it's
not the Roald Rumble Match, it's not SummerSlam. So just
that alone, I mean, I thought that was really really
smart too.

Speaker 2 (09:53):
It's still one night of the year wait where every
championship must be defended.

Speaker 1 (09:56):
I'll have you no, yes, I want to talk about
the tag team situation in a second too. Since you
bring that up. All right, let's pause and set the table.
This is the Waight Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast, our Thursday flagship.
I'm Way Keller, host of the program, editor of the
Progressing Torch weekly newsletter pw Torch dot com, and host
of this show, The Way Keller Prossing Post shows a

(10:18):
variety of VP audio shows, and I welcome you to
the show today. Thanks for downloading or streaming the show.
The other voice you hear is the co host on
the Flagship every three weeks, Jason Powell from Pro Wrestling
dot Net and the Pro Wrestling Boom Podcast. We got
a lot more to talk about. We're going to talk
about last night's aw We're going to talk about NXT
from last night. We expect ratings to come in on

(10:41):
how AW did last night and without NXT as opposition.
We'll even talk some impact wrestling and WWE try to
stop wrestlers from doing making money on the side through
playing video games and people watching them, and they make
money from that. So we'll get into that and much more.
But first things first, Jason, tell people about your website

(11:04):
and your podcast and your social media and how they
can hear and read more from you between your appearances
here on the Way Keller Progressing Podcast.

Speaker 2 (11:11):
Yeah, you got it. Let's start with the Pro Wrestling
Boom podcast. My guest this week is PJ Black discussing
the Ring of Honor Pure Title Tournament and his Daredevil exploits.
Insightful interview is just kind of fun to talk with
PJ getting his mindset on these base jumping and I
think he said paragliding into some of the big things

(11:32):
that he all these big stunts that he does, it's
not the ant adrenaland kind of attitude that he takes
to this, so it was pretty interesting just to hear
the way he views it and why he does it.
So a good conversation there. We also talk about his
time with the NEXTUS Group in WWE, which may be timely,
not sure depending on what WWE does with retribution. But

(11:55):
the Boom is usually available on Wednesdays and it sometimes
will have review guests such as PJ Black or like
the week before Will Pruit joined me dot net staffer
and we talked nothing but aw for an hour. So
it just kind of depends on the week and the guest.
But you can find that show for free. Do a
search for Pro Wrestling Boom on Apple Podcasts or wherever

(12:16):
you get your podcasts, then subscribe. You'll never miss an episode.
The website, of course, is Pro Wrestling dot Net. I'm
updating it way too much these days because wrestling never
seems to slow down. But it's fun. So if you're
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reviews of most of the major television shows, gotcha covered?
Looking for live updates on pay per view events, definitely

(12:37):
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(13:01):
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Speaker 1 (13:18):
Excellent. Thanks Jason. You can support us on Patreon and
get these shows with ads and plugs remove, the weight
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(13:39):
Check it out patreon dot com slash PW Torch VIP.
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can also upgrade to other tiers and receive even more
benefits through Patreon. So with uh with Roman and Paul

(14:01):
Hayman the Dynamic. Do you agree with me that Hayman
was getting stale with Lesner. Like my anticipation for Hayman
promo a couple of years ago was like, you know,
ten out of ten, nine out of ten, and it
sort of got down to like three or four. I
was like, you know, he's gonna repeat the same catchphrases.
I'm gonna wish Lesner did more talking. He's going to
be in a situation. I don't know. I just wasn't

(14:23):
I didn't think. I didn't even think he felt all
that inspired. I felt like Paul seemed excited and well,
I don't know if it's true or not, but over
time we'll see if he if this is a different
if Hayman getting to play a slightly different role or
maybe a significantly different role excites him and gets his
creative juices following again, because the idea that he's kind

(14:44):
of hyper concerned about pleasing Roman as opposed to just
being almost the equal of Lesner, I think is really interesting.

Speaker 2 (14:52):
Yeah I do agree, And hey, I mean I'm bad
Paul Hayman promo is still a pretty good promo.

Speaker 1 (14:57):
Yeah, oh, no question. I was ranking my anticipation, not
so much grating it, like it was almost on a
personal level, Like, I know this would be good, but
I'm not really excited about it because I kind of
know what I'm gonna get. Because I don't mean to
say like he ever was below average, right.

Speaker 2 (15:10):
No, It's just there's only so many things you can
say about the same person doing, by and large, the
same thing over and over and over again. And he
made it work. But yeah, this is a new challenge.
This should be something that he can be excited about.
One thing that I don't know if they'll go in
this direction. It probably is all about making Roman the

(15:31):
ultimate villain. But if they want to kind of have
a different layer to this story, they did a position,
you know, they had Roman say this was Paul's doing
getting jay Uso the match and with him and being
the master manipulator. One approach could be that he he
did did set this up because he's you know, he
knows what the end result is going to be. If

(15:51):
jay wins, Roman is going to slaughter him, and that
is another step of Roman being in his clutches and
being isolated. It's, you know, he loses to family. If
they want to play it that way, I'm guessing they don't.
They usually don't go that deep with things. But but yeah,
I think this is going to be a really fun
phase for Ham and we're just not gonna have to

(16:12):
hear all those same catchphrases that Hener and I would assume,
unless Brock decides to go back to UFC or Tony
con decides to really open up that that that pocketbook.
I think sooner later we're gonna get baby face Brock
Lesner facing Roman Range.

Speaker 1 (16:28):
That's the thing I was anticipating a baby face brock
Lessner for in the latter stages of his run. So
if we get that, I think that can really work. Well,
what do you what do you think of Lesner's the
possibility of Lesner and what Lesner would give to a
w I if AW signed him. Like, I've talked about

(16:50):
this with a couple people already, but I'm curious your
take on is it a good fit or I mean,
because I don't think Moxley Lesner makes sense. I mean,
I know there's the whole well, you know, in real
life they didn't get along Son, and they can turn
that into something, But I think in real life they
don't get along, and I don't think there's going to
be a real lot of interest. I think Moxley is
now the big fish and isn't going to want to

(17:10):
compromise with Lesner, But Lesner is gonna think he's the
big fish. So I just don't see that as particularly compatible.

Speaker 2 (17:17):
No, I don't think it's a good fit. If I
were Tony Kahan, I don't think I would make that move.
There's you know, aw has it. Mostly there's some bigger
guys there, but mostly smaller roster. The big guys or
you know, the Lance Archers and Brody Lee types, and
they're the heels. And I mean, you know, Brock works
pretty well with smaller guys, but I just don't see

(17:40):
too many. Could they do Cody and Brock shure there's
some matches there, but I just don't know that it's
worth the money. And realistically, I don't know that Brock,
who has been pretty loyal to events, you know, aside
from that early I'm going to play football battle, he's
been very loyal to him, and it doesn't mean he
won't take a huge UFC money. But I don't know
that Brock is just make that jump unless it's just

(18:01):
something astronomical, and I don't know that he's worth it.
You know for the schedule that he wants to work,
it would be obviously a big, a big boost in
star power for AW. I don't know that I do
the trade off for just what it does to the
locker room, not the Brock. I mean, you know he can,

(18:21):
He's Brock Lesnar, but I just don't know that you
really want to just disrupt everything and start having people go, well, hey,
Brock got this deal. Maybe I'm not expecting the same
as Brock, but you know, why can't I get something
a little more with a few less dates and a
few more zeros. And it's just I don't know. I
just think it's more trouble than it's worth.

Speaker 1 (18:39):
That's the thing. I do think it's more trouble than
it's worth. Now, if Cody became AW champion as a
babyface and Brock came in as a heel, I think
there's money in that match. I think the politics of
Moxley and the style matchup doesn't work. If Kenny Omega
becomes a babyface AW champion, if he becomes a TO

(19:01):
champion in as a baby face, and that's in question,
then I think Kenny Lesner match would be big money
for the AW audience, and I think it would set
a record by rate. I don't think Lance Archer or
Brian Cage or Brody Lee are big enough names where
Lesnar facing them is. I think it would do exponentially
bigger business a match against Cody or Kenny Hangman Page

(19:28):
maybe I think the size different. I would need to
see Hangman Page get back on track and really get momentum,
and I could be talking, you know, I could be
talked into thinking that that alone might be worth you know,
working with you know, working with Lesner and doing what
it would take. I think that's number three on my list.
But all three have to be baby faces. Lesner coming
in has to be a heel in ae W as
the outsider coming in to basically represent the best of

(19:51):
WWE coming in to try to take out the best
that AW has. And so do you agree with me
like the Archer and Cage and Brody aren't enough and
it's it would take a baby face Cody, Kenny or
Adam Page heating up again to be the opponents that
would make it worth seriously considering what you just said,
otherwise would not be worth trouble.

Speaker 2 (20:12):
I do agree. The one guy I think of that group.
You meant, I think you could really build up to
some feel big. I don't know how it would be
an execution, but Archer and Lesner does kind of stand
it do if you play your cards right, But it's not.
It wouldn't be the immediate obvious match like you know
Cody or Henny and I agree with you on Hangman page.

(20:33):
I don't know. I think Moxley it would be. I
think Monxley would do business. I don't you know. I
don't know Brockle Rodger Bee cares if he's very better
you know who knows. But yeah, there's just I mean,
Lesner and Jericho looks nice on a marquee. I can't

(20:55):
say that I want to see the match though.

Speaker 1 (20:56):
No, no, I don't either.

Speaker 3 (21:01):
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Speaker 1 (22:10):
Hi Jason I mentioned the Taking Situation Class Champions coming
up later this month. Cizarro and shins Key Nakamura show
up on Raw and want to want to have a
Champion versus Champions match against Street Profits. I like that
because it's one less match on the clash and all
the belts have to be defended, so we've eliminated having

(22:32):
to either make two matches unnaturally short or demeaning the
tag titles by putting them on the on the kickoffs
show or making the show needlessly longer. So with that said,
I also like it because I think the floating women's
tag titles has worked pretty well. Yes, some people think
it's led to overexposure for Sauce and Bailey, but that
I think was more sort of pandemic related to a degree,

(22:53):
because Vince just thought they can create a lot of
a lot of noise and a lot of drama themselves
in you don't have crowds, and so there they were
in the they were in the group of people, the
cluster of people that he thought were really good at
creating their own energy without a crowd. So I don't
know that that over exposure would have to be the
case now in the thunder Dome era or won crowds
come back. I just like the idea floating Take champs

(23:15):
and you can still have take divisions in both both shows,
but the take titles get ignored for weeks at a
time anyway, So why not have unify the titles and
have one take title like with the women for the men.
Are you in favor of that? Do you see that
downside to that?

Speaker 2 (23:31):
I'm fine with it. They've they've just squandered their tag division,
So what's the difference at this point, Yeah, go ahead
and do it. The match takes place on Ross. You're
kind of expecting something to set up a rematch with
the titles actually being on the line for the PA
at the pay per view.

Speaker 1 (23:47):
Yeah, that's that's what I'm I'm aiming. I'm aiming for,
or I'm seeing that they're heading towards something like that,
because I don't think they would just do it just
to have a one off on TV. Like to me,
this seems like, I mean, that's's not Hopevin's works. I
think if he's going to invest in having them come
to Raw and you've got class of champions coming up
and you don't have obvious take contenders for either belts,

(24:10):
otherwise where it's like, well, they're not gonna they're not
gonna give up on that top tier feud on a
pay per view to have an inner brand match. So yeah,
it seems like that's where their headed Put the belts
on the line and merge.

Speaker 2 (24:20):
Them works for me. Yeah, I wish they treated their
tag division better, but they just don't. And this won't
really change anything. Well, I guess more than anything, the
thing I'm happiest about is it means I don't have
to watch the Street Profits based on Dorada and Garza again. Hey,
I was excited about that few when it started. Yep.

(24:41):
It's just so many matches and they almost all end
with the Street Profits winning. Why do they keep showing
me this?

Speaker 1 (24:48):
And on top of that, I don't know if I
can ever take Angel Garza seriously again after he ran
off on that reality star woman the way he did.
I mean, I just I know they thought, oh, this
will be if retribution shows up and he says, I'll
always be by your side, I'm here to protect you,
and then he ran away. But it's like that was
such a chicken shit thing to do that. I just

(25:09):
I look at him differently now as someone who's all
talk but actually just a comedy figure who runs away
from the first sign of trouble, even for a woman
he's courting. So I didn't think that was worth it.
And I mean, I don't think it ruins him, but
I think it damaged him.

Speaker 2 (25:24):
He courts a lot of women with so she's not
that special to him if you haven't noticed, I mean,
there's her Charlie Caruso, like any woman that appears on
screen other than Jelena Vegas seemingly So, yeah, I did
get a kick out of that. I gotta admit, I
know what you're saying, But I just wonder if that's
kind of the role they are transitioning him into. They

(25:45):
didn't seem to know what to do with him before.
They kind of lumped him in with Andrade as a
tag team, and it looks like they're splitting up, and
so maybe that's it. Is this little Thario who you know,
he can get it done occasionally, but he isn't you
know when push comes to shove, he's going to save
his own ass.

Speaker 1 (26:03):
Well, yeah, I just for him to be a top
tier guy. Having him run away practically squealing in fright
at these masked whimps and retribution showing up. I just
I don't know. I just don't. I'm just saying I
don't look at him the same way anymore. What do
you think? What do you this Friday we've got tomorrow,

(26:24):
we've got a new Friday Funhouse or Firefly fun House character.
What do you think they're going to do? I assume
it's Alexa Bliss related. Is it Alexa Bliss herself. Is
it a new puppet and just kind of overall, what
do you think of what they're doing with a fiend
and Alexa? And does Braun still fit in or do
you think they just split him off and do something
else and kind of divorce him from the Bray situation.

Speaker 2 (26:47):
I think if they told Braun, hey, why don't you
go home and kick a few months off, it would
be the best thing they could do for Bron Right now.
He's just so ice cold. It's too soon to turn
him heel and expect to. Really, it's something out of it,
especially when you just turned Roman. I know, he's kind
of been a tweener. He just needs to go away.
They've really damaged him with whyat if they think like

(27:11):
he's their number one babyface, they have a lot of
work to do. I don't know how that's gonna work.
But at the same time, I'm, you know, just I
find it compelling that the storyline with him and Alexa
curious to see where that goes still, So yeah, it's
just I don't see him as babyface number one in
the fight against Roman reigns because the characters just too

(27:33):
out there and the way they do it with just
making hocus pocus things, and they scale back a little
bit on that when it comes to the new character.
I don't know, Bo Dallas is still under contract. Maybe
they can find a funny outfit for him too.

Speaker 1 (27:46):
Wait he's still under contract. Yes, that's crazy. Wow, But yeah,
I'm I actually I'm a boat with Dallas fan. So
I mean, like just not you know, like as a
top tier guy. But I think he deserved more than desert,
a little bit better than he's been getting lately. So
if he becomes a character, that's fine too.

Speaker 2 (28:05):
I loved Nxtbo Dallas. He was like, yeah, obnoxious, justin Bieber.
Just get that high pitch, whiny voice and.

Speaker 1 (28:14):
Little ras beats, add a little little extra annoyance to it.

Speaker 2 (28:18):
Sure, I mean, and he it's funny. We were just
talking about Garza. Yeah there was a chicken shit side
of him, but he just had this this I'm trying
to think of the right word for, because he would
act like he was this wholesome, nice guy and then
you just see through. You just have those moments. I
really like that character, but obviously it's one of many

(28:40):
that Vince didn't get.

Speaker 1 (28:42):
Yeah, yeap, So I like Alexa Bliss though in linked
up with Bray. I think there's potential there. But does
Bray end up going babyface and do Bray in the
fingo baby face with Alexa or do they try to
have a sinister twist that leads to Alexa becoming evil

(29:05):
and fighting NICKI or or is it? Or do we
or do we have to go through both faces? You know,
evil and then babyface?

Speaker 2 (29:11):
I think they're I think they're gonna end up being babyfaces.
You just look at the babyface side of things. And
you know, Daniel Brian's on hiatus, but he's also said
I don't know if anything's changed that. His contract was
up shortly after he returned from leave, so we'll wait
and see what happens there. Then you know, Matt Riddle,
they don't seem all that invested. They don't. They're not

(29:32):
ruining him yet, not exactly trying to make him either.
He's just kind of there. So I mean, who is
the top babyface? I think that ship has sailed, at
least temporarily, if not long term. On Bronze Strowman, I
think they are going to try to make Bray Wyatt
the fiend into that and alexis part of making that happen.

(29:53):
I don't know where that leaves Nicky necessarily. I may
be reading it wrong, but that's that's kind of my
interpretation of where it is right now.

Speaker 1 (30:00):
Yeah, yep, we're about to go to a commercial break.
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(30:20):
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with a VIP or Patreon membership. Let's get to the
Matt Hardy situation and what happened on Saturday and then

(30:43):
how they handled it last night. I'm still, you know,
trying to fully process what they were trying to do
and whether it worked or not. Hardy coming out and
just thanking the fans for gushing about you know, or
showing so much care for him. The whole thing felt

(31:04):
pr and then I just I don't think. I think
it drew a lot of attention to something that could
have been taken care of in eight seconds by the
announcer's just going you know, you know, Hardy tweeted this,
He's taken some I don't know. I guess what do
you think of it, because like I said, I'm I'm
still trying to process it other than I think it
was a mistake in the moment to continue the match,

(31:26):
and I hope that they developed new protocol for those
situations going forward.

Speaker 2 (31:31):
Oh. Absolutely. When it comes to the segment itself, Hardy
appearing last on Dynamite, he I liked it because it
didn't feel like a promo, and maybe it totally was,
but it felt like this is a guy just going
out there acknowledging it. I think the pr move, and
it was a smart one, was getting ready just to
stand in the crowd because we know that she was

(31:52):
not happy. She let the world know she wasn't happy,
and good for her for doing that. The fact that
they were able to get her to be out there
to kind of okay she must have forgiven everybody because
she's there. From a pr standpoint, that's obviously good for them.
My big thing on that they was handled horribly and
they should be ashamed of themselves. I don't expect them realistically.

(32:14):
I mean, could they come out and say, hey, we
did a bad job. We'll do better next time. I
think we all would like that in this world of
never ending litigation. Is that the right move? Probably not.
A lawyer would probably tell you not to apologize for
anything and take the approach they did, so, I guess,

(32:35):
more than anything, no matter what they say publicly, I
hope we hear that internally they know they screwed up
and they are, as you said, you know, changing protocols
because it needs to happen. That can't happen.

Speaker 1 (32:46):
Again, No, no, it can't. And I just you know,
if Hardy can't make himself a worthwhile member of the
roster by wrestling within the ropes in the ring, Tony
Knscott to decide do I let him do thing like?
Because what I worry about his wrestlers feel like they
have to prove their worth by jumping off of high

(33:07):
places and taking crazy, wild bumps, And I think there's
diminishing returns. First of all, Samy Gabar doesn't need to
be doing any of that. That shouldn't be his brand.
It shouldn't be something he's risking. He's just too good
and hardy if he's just so broken down that he
can't you know, run the ropes and do the athletic moose,
so now it's about, you know, turning into some sort
of you know, stunt man. Then it's time to transition

(33:31):
him to something else. And he can do six man
tags with private party, pick his spots, you know, use
him in a limited way. But I just don't think
a mid card match like Hardy Gavara should have spots
like that. And I do fear that Tony Kahn's philosophy
isn't let's save the big stuff for when it's really

(33:52):
gonna count, but it's more, let's just jam as much
in as we can of this kind of thing to
make the pay per view feel special. And it feels
to me just kind of passe to be doing big
stunt bumps like this, not not to mention just dangerous,
but even if they could do it safely, it just
it feels passe to me. I want I'm not saying
everybody should be FTR in terms of their gimmick, but

(34:14):
Sammy Guvar, you know, and Darby Allen even in the
in the throwing him in a body bag with umbtacks.
The thumbtack stuff is bad enough, but you can't control
the bump you're taking when you're in a body bag.
It just that should not be green lighted. So it
just it put a dark cloud over the over the
whole event for me, and kind of aw A is
a promotion, and Tony Kahn's judgment that that's the kind
of thing he's green lighting, it's just and I don't

(34:37):
think that's Cody's vision either. I mean, I know Cody
likes to bleed, so you know that's sort of his
his indulgence. But I feel like there's not a vision.
There's just indulgences and Hardy that Hardy bump and then
the continuation of the match. We're a manifestation of what
I think is one of the flaws when it comes
to what AW tries to do on pay per view.

Speaker 2 (34:57):
Yeah, I think where that occurs is very telling. I mean,
I don't know how long they had given that match,
but it didn't seem to me like this is the climax,
whatever happens here, because they went to the actual finish
where they climbed the scaffold. So they were just doing
this big bump onto this, you know, these two tables
and then apparently we're just going to get up in

(35:19):
a few seconds and continue fighting. So was that really
worth the risk? I mean, a spot like that to
me just isn't any more period. But it wasn't even
like the big finish. This was just something that was
going to happen in the match and probably be forgotten
three seconds later.

Speaker 1 (35:35):
That's the thing, yep. I just that level of risk
for the placement on the card and the payoff just
wasn't worth it. And so yeah, anyway, all right, I'm
gonna shift to Kenny Omega Hangman page. We talked about
them in the context to Brock a little bit and
the young bucks, the elite. How do you grade the
story the way that they're telling the story, and can

(35:57):
you explain to me where they are as of today?

Speaker 2 (36:01):
I give them an S for slow I mean it's
and there's good and bad in that. I don't mind
a slow burn, but it's time, you know, I think
one of the things that needs to change with this
company when it comes to this, because they're very proud
of their their slow developing storylines, and that's cool. We
don't get that from the other company. But I think

(36:22):
it's okay to have a variety. So if you have
a really long storyline playing out, that's great, But not
every storyline needs to be that way. Not every storyline
needs to be foreshadowed, like, you know, if that's what
they're like, we're not getting m Chef and Jericho now,
but we're going to tease it for six months down
the road. Sometimes let's just have those things develop out

(36:45):
of nowhere and catch us off guard that way too.
And I don't know if that's what they were doing,
but it's just it does feel like they have multiple
very slow developing storylines, and I think you lose some
people along the way that are would you cut to
the chase already? I think it's I was really hoping
we see those developments at the pay per view or

(37:07):
on this episode of Dynamite coming out of the pay
per view, and we're still left waiting. I'm interested, but
I'm you know, I mean, I'm watching the show every week.
I just wonder how many people is this ever gonna
pay off? What is this? And can can we get
to it? And if not? And I'm gonna there's there's
other shows on. I'm gonna turn the.

Speaker 1 (37:26):
Channel how And at what point do we get permission
to either or really like or really not like somebody like?
And because I don't even know what they're trying to
do with the Bucks or Kenny or Page. Fully, if
the Bucks and Kenny are gonna be a heel threesome,
I guess they're doing a good job making me not

(37:46):
like them so far. But then you have Hayn Page,
who's this Who's the babyface who got suckered into believing
FTR And now he's moping around feeling sorry for himself,
and I guess the build is he's gonna eventually snap
out of it. And then you get hang Page against
the heel Kenny Omega or something like that. Where do
you think this is heading? And what's sort of the
landing place for all of us?

Speaker 2 (38:07):
I still wonder if that horseman like faction is in play.
And we see the jacket Tolly's wearing the revelation and
there's two horses on there, and do they add a
third and a fourth at some point and is at
the faction name.

Speaker 1 (38:18):
But then who's in it? Who's who's then? Who is
with Tolley an FTR? If that's the.

Speaker 2 (38:23):
Faction, my guess would be Omega is kind of the
face of that thing, because he does seem like he's
the one who's turning keel. I think Paige is going
to be the baby face as he should be. I
think that you know, Kenny's going to be cheered by
his fans either way, but I think you know, you
can he just he just hasn't clicked on AW the

(38:46):
way he did in Japan yet, and I think he's
going to be a better heel in a baby face.
And Page is the guy who is over a lot
of it's the beer drinking and all that, but hey,
it's worked. And then the box I think, because I
don't you know, the idea of like we're gonna turn
Kenny and the Bucks together? Are we ever going to
get the Bucks against FTR, which it seems like they've

(39:08):
been building too forever as well. So I think it's
there's an issue right now with the Bucks and Page.
Obviously in time they're going to have to get on
the same page to battle. Whether it's just Kenny and
the FDR duo or if there's more to that, if
there's another member of that faction coming, I guess we'll see,
but I think that's where this is going. Searching for

(39:33):
more great pro wrestling talk, then join me Jason Powell,
host of the three weekly Pro Wrestling Boom Podcast. Each
week you'll hear the latest news and analysis from me
and my team at pro wrestling dot Net along with
other pro wrestling media members. Plus, the Pro Wrestling Boom
Podcast features long form interviews with notable names in the
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(39:54):
your favorite secondary apps, or visit us directly at PW
boom dot com. Once again, and that's PW boom dot com.

Speaker 1 (40:09):
So what do you think about the Bucks? What are they? What?
What are they trying to portray? And where do they
land and how along do we have to wait for
them to land in terms of being defined and being
well defined characters?

Speaker 2 (40:22):
Hmmm, I don't know. I mean, it's I'm kind of
into the new edginess that they were wrong by Hangman
Page and is it going to take you know, they
didn't follow Omega like he wanted. Is it going to
take some beat down there to kind of snap them
out of it, or yeah, they still have the edge.

(40:44):
Maybe it is just we want to give these guys
more of an edge rather than have them be Maybe
there's there's because I mean, they certainly have their critics
for their style. You can't change them. Their style is
their style. But when it comes to the characters, yeah,
maybe this is just their way of trying to toughen
them up a little bit. I don't know, I'm not
sure where it's going.

Speaker 1 (41:05):
Is it toughening them up by having is it toughening
them up by having them go two on one super
kicking a non athlete interviewer. I mean, that's just stupid.

Speaker 2 (41:14):
It was Alex Marvest, Yes, yes it was. That was
the biggest baby face move in ADW Dynamite history.

Speaker 1 (41:21):
I get what you're saying, I mean, I know, I mean,
I get what you're saying in that respect it, but
but that belongs on being the elite, you know that,
Like if you're going to do you know, silly meta stuff. Well,
nobody likes this guy and he's annoying and whatever, but
as in terms of like straight up like how do
you judge pete guys who just it's to me that's
like that's comedy, that's not giving them an edge, that's

(41:44):
doing slapstick.

Speaker 2 (41:46):
No, and I am joking about yeah, all kidding, he
as fine as I don't have an issue with them.
It which the early commentary workers like this can't continue,
and thank god it didn't. But yeah, there's too many
characters that are kind of in that gray area right now,
which I think is what you're saying an MHL.

Speaker 1 (42:04):
I agree, yeah, or if they're they're in a great
there are all. Yeah, there's too many characters in a
gray area. But I also just I'm not sure that
I'm super inspired by even the course that they're on,
like Hangman Page just going babyface after moping around and
just being this you know, self loathing, you know, just
feeling feeling sorry for himself. I just don't know if

(42:25):
you can just flip the switch and suddenly you're back
to where you were early this year. Kenny Omega just
doesn't seem like he cares, and I don't know if
he's gonna I don't know that he's showing me signs
that he's gonna have this refined heel character that's gonna work.
I'm not ruling it out, but I'm not like confident
either yet. I just the promo last night didn't didn't.
It made me a little more worried than confident. But

(42:47):
you know, we'll see, because I if he's got something
in mind and it works and it flushes itself out
in land somewhere and all this is building to it,
I mean, I am open to it. I mean it'd
be unfair not to be. But I didn't think last
night's promo was type of thing that gets people invested
and inspired in what he says next. I mean the
idea of well lost belts who cares like I don't
think anybody should ever say that.

Speaker 2 (43:09):
No, I'm with you. I mean, I think he's a
singles guy, is what he's getting. But for me, I
really hope whether it was intentional, even if they want
to claim it was and it wasn't, I don't care.
Whenever Kenny hits that sweet spet, whatever we find out
what his character is the big moment from that point on,

(43:30):
Please dressed the part, get the haircut, and make it
seem like this was all by design. Everything we've seen
leading up to that this was all planned. I don't
think it was. But you might be able to sell
me on that if he just takes a different approach
once he turns, that'd be pretty cool.

Speaker 1 (43:45):
Is Tenny Omega's haircut the worst haircut in all of
human civilization in the year twenty twenty?

Speaker 2 (43:53):
Well, I mean a couple of leaders won in the
US and in England that I might put up against
Kenny Omega's here, But.

Speaker 1 (44:02):
I mean it is Is he serious?

Speaker 2 (44:04):
So he may be the Prime Minister of candidate the
rate we're going with government leaders in their haircuts?

Speaker 1 (44:09):
Is Kenny serious?

Speaker 2 (44:10):
Like?

Speaker 1 (44:11):
Does he does he think that's like a good star
look to have this kind of greasy, disheveled but went
to the trouble to bleach the tips. Look, it's just
I mean, I've never been a fan of his haircuts,
but last night was like just got awful. I mean,
it's just I don't know. I just think you want
to you want to come across at your star and

(44:33):
I think he thinks he has a signature look. But
and again it's you know, it's personal. Maybe I should
run a Twitter pole. But to me. It just doesn't
seem like a particular, refined, trademark haircut. It just looks
it kind of grows.

Speaker 2 (44:49):
It does like all of a sudden, you know, when
that day comes, if Alsney shows up looking completely different,
that'd be kind of fun.

Speaker 1 (44:56):
Yes, that's the thing. Yeah, we're rooting for this, like
big change for all these key characters where all these
signs that don't make sense, well it was all it
was all part of a plan. And it's like, well,
let's get to it then, because I'm it's taken a
long time. Yeah, but uh, Moxley has been great, you know,
and uh you know, uh, Lance Archer, I'm not by

(45:18):
the way, I wasn't gonna this wasn't what I was
going to just say, but I'm gonna say Jake Roberts
is kind of going downhill on promos for me.

Speaker 2 (45:25):
I want to want you can understand him. I can't.

Speaker 1 (45:28):
Yeah, well that's that's part of it. But like it
seems like he's trying to slip in crude things where
it's like, oh, I can't believe he said that that
I just think is kind of trashy. And he's starting
to yell more and I think some of that kind
of calm looking in the eye, psychology talks softly, and
you know, playing mind games. I just if I feel

(45:48):
like what was once there isn't and he could use
more guidance. And it's it's a bummer to say that
because I'm not like for scripting, you know, I don't
want everyone to get scripted, and Jake one of the
great promos, you know, in terms of that playing that
type of character. But I think again, aw is kind
of like, you know, let the artists be artists, give
the rest of us free rein. But it's just coming across.

(46:10):
It's tottery and trashy, and it feels like it'd be
it's starting to feel like something that TNA would have
thrown out there for shock value. And I don't know,
I don't know. I just it's a small sample size.
But I'm cringing a little bit when I listened to
Jake now in part because of you know, how raspy
everything is. But but I think there, you know, you
can still do good promos with that, and I just

(46:31):
think the content it's some kind of this derivative of
what was once pretty, you know, clever and compelling, and
now it just isn't working as well far, so I
don't know. I maybe, like I said, it's a small
sample sized Jason, but I wasn't. I didn't love last night.
I think Lan's Archer. It's weird, but I'd rather have
Jake talk lesson, let Lance Archer talk more now and
have Jake, you know, be a man of few words,

(46:52):
but you listen and then Archer takes over.

Speaker 2 (46:54):
Yeah, I want to when I see Jake, I want
to think hunting and manipulative, absolutely, and that's what we
are getting further away from that unfortunately. And I think
every time he raises his voice is when that rasp
really kicks in. So if he does stick wiet and
the funny thing that was the thing for years. He's
the guy we point to when Samoa Joe would start,
you know, screaming during promo, It's like, you don't have

(47:15):
to do that. Watch Jake Roberts promos from back to
the day totally. It's it's kind of sad to see that.
On the flip side, I'll say, I think Archer isn't
a bad talker, but I'd never like he started doing
it in New Japan. I was hoping it was going
to go away because of the pandemic, and people don't
seem to mind it. But the whole everybody dies, thing

(47:36):
like what does this even mean? Yeah, yeah, everyone does great?

Speaker 1 (47:41):
Thanks, Yeah exactly. It's a bit of a downer when you're,
you know, watching a wrestling show and then everyone must eat. Yeah, yeah,
I don't. I think that when you start, when you
have a trademark line and it feels like this kind
of empty platitude that you think sounds cool, but you
can't really explain it, or at least the people watching
can't explain it, it's time to either explain it or change.

Speaker 2 (48:03):
It, you know, change it up, everybody, pease.

Speaker 1 (48:08):
I like Jericho when Hagar as a team going at
the take titles. One of the positives last night in
terms of the post all out direction Jericho, you know,
moving away from Orange Cassidy that played itself out. You
utilize Hagar better, but you let also let Hagar do
the heavy lifting of the matches and have Jericho kind
of pick a spots so that you know you're not

(48:28):
over exposing Jericho at this point and making Jake work
for his money, which I'm in favor of, by the way,
so I like that. I like them as a team,
and I like that I like that as a way
to freshen up Jericho.

Speaker 2 (48:41):
Mixed feelings on this because I don't know where it goes.
Like you're moving them into the tag division, they want
to rack up wins so they can get a tag
title shot against FTR fellow heels. I'm guessing this is
just their way of getting to Jericho and Hager feuding
with Lucasaurus and jungle Boy J seems like he wants

(49:01):
to help elevate people like he did, you know, the
Orange Cassidy feud, so and I think it almost has
to stop there unless they have different champions by the
time you would get to that point. So yeah, I mean,
I'm okay with it. That's where they're going, I guess.

Speaker 1 (49:16):
But I think setting up Jericho and Hager playing long
ball here into twenty twenty one to take on a
babyface Young Bucks team, if the Bucks are going to
be babyfaces, that works for me. And you know, when
you form a team, I don't think you I think
you can take a journey through the tag division, and
I think there's multiple baby face teams that can face.
But if the Bucks are baby faces, and Jericho and

(49:37):
Hager establish themselves as a heel team, whether it's for
the belts or not. I think that can work.

Speaker 2 (49:41):
Part of me though, it is like you're the inner circle.
Shouldn't Santana and Orties be going after the tag titles?
Why are they just and maybe maybe that's part of
a storyline.

Speaker 1 (49:51):
I don't know, Yeah, yeah, I mean I guess that's
that's just a story you can tell in the long run,
as far as you know, building up that. They talk
about it all the time. How deep the tag division is,
so I think you can have two or three different
take feuds going on at once and then you're kind
of left guessing, you know.

Speaker 2 (50:09):
Keep telling us about this way. I need to see
it more. I'm a little flustered by I gues that's
an incredibly deep division. What are the what are these
great tag team views?

Speaker 1 (50:20):
I know, yeah, well, hopefully.

Speaker 2 (50:22):
It's Trent and he's feuding with Santana and Orchy's over
his mom's minivan.

Speaker 1 (50:28):
No, I know that's where a little star power from
Jericho and Hager can help the division too. And as
you say, you know, Jericha likes to elevate stars, so
maybe he can help, you know, elevate and solidify the
tag division. Maybe yeah, give yourself a reason to look
forward to. Go into the mailbox each week with a
PW Torch Newsletter paper copy. Subscription details at PW torch

(50:52):
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(51:12):
news and more. PW torch dot com slash paper Copy.
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twenty twenty two. You can get a full year of
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(51:33):
for an eight week trial subscription PW Torch dot com
slash paper Copy. What'd you think of the debut of
the former Russeph Miro.

Speaker 2 (51:48):
It worked only because it's mirror and people were excited
to see it you. I mean basically, the guy could
do almost anything, and there's an audience out there that
was going to be excited about it. But it doesn't
mean it was good. I don't understand the Kipsabian connection.
Maybe it will make sense in time. I mean it was.

(52:09):
I think we've all talked about it. It's every WWE
cast off signed with TNA promo that we've heard. It's
just and it's we don't get all. We don't get
a lot of those on Dynamite, So I think it
stands out to us because we had to live through
all of those. To a younger audience that they're trying

(52:29):
to play to, well, that might be something kind of fresh,
like oh, can't believe he said that? Where you know
you and I have kind of heard it all and
we're like, oh god, this again. So I guess I
think it worked, but I don't really. It's not because
of brilliant booking or anything like that. It just worked
because people like him.

Speaker 1 (52:51):
Where does he fit in great question?

Speaker 2 (52:55):
I don't know. He's like, he has all that charisma
and people genuinely like the guy. I don't know what
you do with it that As much as yeh, we'd
all grumble like, oh, Vince mcmah should be doing more
with Ruchev. I never had a good idea like this
is what they need to be doing. I never had
those thoughts. He's just kind of a quirky dude. I

(53:17):
always like love the heel foreign menace character, but once
it got into RUCEF Day, I didn't know what you know,
I wouldn't have had any great idea for them, and
I still don't. I hope they have something great in mind.

Speaker 1 (53:30):
That's how I feel. I don't. I don't know that
I trust AW to have that their creative team to
look at Rusev, look at Miro and be like, hmm, okay,
here's what we're going to do with this, and be
impressed with their idea. And he's a good test. Can
you take somebody who Vince McMahon wasn't sure what to
do with. There's something there, you know, it's clearly you

(53:52):
know a connection he has with the audience. But can
he be more than a mid cart Shawn Spears turned
out to be who he in WWE zach Ryder. I
had all these cs in my head. Zach Ryder might
turn out to be what WWE, you know at the
level w B portrayed him like at some point aw

(54:16):
needs to hire somebody and reinvent them, and you're like, ah,
this is what Vince didn't see that that shapes and
forms them into something that can be utilized higher on
the card and really click. And I think Miro is
a great opportunity for that. I don't have the answer,

(54:36):
it's not my job to have the answer. But walking
around smiling and making references to things that people see
on your social media is not a money character. It's
it's collecting a paycheck by floating around and just being
bliss like, Hey, this is fun. Look at me. I'm
in the ring and I play video games and you

(54:57):
people watch me and thank you, and it's like, wait
a second. Pro wrestling is about having aspirations to prove
you're the best of what you do and then getting
people to want to see you succeed or fail, and
do so in a way that has a character, that's
that's defined in a way where people can in a
few words or a few sentence it's explain who you
are and why they like you or don't like you.

(55:18):
And that's not where he is right now. And this
is a profession, not a hobby, So I want to
see him treat it like that, improve that there was
more there ifins Man gave him that chance. So this
was the Week one promo. I'm not encouraged by the
fact that he comes out with Kip Sabian, and I
think the joke is well, the last time he saw him,
he was involved in a wedding situation with Juana and Lashley.

(55:38):
And look now he's involved in a wedding situation in
aw Ah. Isn't that great? No, that's not enough for me.
I need to know what the connection is with Sabian,
and I need to know why a nice guy like
Mero's hanging out with a jerk like Sabian who just
insulted two other people who seem like nice enough guys.
So none of that makes any sense to me. And
I know you know that the stock answer is we'll

(56:00):
just give a time. Aw is playing long ball. It's like, yeah,
but at some point you got to show me something.

Speaker 2 (56:06):
Yeah. I hope it's more than the wedding, but I
don't know what else it would be. I don't know why.
I don't know of any connection between the two that
you know outside the industry that like super fans would
be aware of yep. I mean, if they're trying to
elevate Sabian through this amount, they've got an idea. Cool,

(56:26):
but he needs to improve his Mike. I don't know
who he is. He just a bit more impressed when
it comes to Mike work by Penelope Ford. I they
didn't even let speak in this segment. I don't. I mean,
I did throw it out. There's a total long shines.
I don't really think this were like, are they going
to have Rusev be the one to steal the girl?
This time in a fun way? And he ends up

(56:48):
with Penelope Ford even though in real life she's really
is getting married to Kip Sabian and they have some
fun with that until Lana shows up when her contract expires.
I don't know, but I can't say any you know
anything that I'm brains on me right now? Isn't that
appealing to me? No?

Speaker 1 (57:02):
And AW shouldn't be doing derivative revenge angles on WWE,
you know what I mean. That's again, that's just being
the elite sill you know, YouTube silliness that you do
with your friends on a weekend. Entertain yourselves. AW should
be in the business of attracting the next million fans,
and that means not taking a bad angle that people
hated in WWE and turning it into some sort of

(57:22):
sketch comedy on your own show.

Speaker 2 (57:25):
So yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (57:26):
Not encouraged or impressed at the moment with a lot
of things in AW coming out of All Out, and
I want to be so so over on.

Speaker 2 (57:37):
The end of a lot of people who saw it
with what's that they did have a lot of people
who saw that episode. Numbers just came out because you're
here chatting here what they drove one point one six million.

Speaker 1 (57:49):
Wow, that's huge as they finished.

Speaker 2 (57:52):
Seventh I believe in the eighteen to forty nine demographics.
So yeah, they were up Tuesdays. NXT did eight hundred
thirty eight thousand different night but Jill, you know, just
to compare the two. So yeah, they were up from
nine to twenty eight last week. So yeah, there was
some interest coming out of that pay per view. I
think the that's a big part of it. I see

(58:14):
somebody online trying to point to Miro. Now, it doesn't
work that way because no one knew he was going
to be there. But yeah, so I think they can
be very pleased by this, and it is kind of
a sign that when you're on actual pay per view
you might get that post pay per view surge. Unlike
WWE in the network, they really don't seem to get
that like they want to now that now that they're

(58:35):
off of well completely off of, but you know what
I'm saying, off the pay per view.

Speaker 4 (58:45):
I'm Kelly Wells, host of PWT Talks NXT, the longest
running NXT podcast Anywhere. Join me along with Nate Lindberg,
Bruce Lee, Hazelwood and special guests live every Tuesday night,
just minutes after NXT, where we cover the good and
the ugly on the way to becoming a star in WWE.
Check us out live on YouTube or stream later wherever

(59:06):
you get your podcasts.

Speaker 1 (59:15):
Next week there on are they on Thursday next week?
And he goes back on Wednesday?

Speaker 2 (59:22):
N XT is definitely on Wednesday, but they were very
confused last night. They had to repeat themselves, so I
don't know which one they didn't say. It comes down
to whether one of the NBA series goes I think
six games or not. So if the game does and
they didn't even I think it was probably because it's
even more confusing. If you look up on the on

(59:44):
screen god next Wednesday night late they have AEW late
night Dynamite listed, and then Thursday it's listed as being
like in its usual you know, the primetime slot. But
I think if they end up getting to run on Wednesday,
they'll just do away with the Thursday salot of course
and the late night dynamite. So we may get three

(01:00:06):
hours next week, we may get two. It may be
on Wednesday, it may be on Thursday. There will be
a quiz later.

Speaker 1 (01:00:11):
With well, I mean, that's not a momentum. That's not
a good way to follow up on a momentum. And
that's what I was getting at, is you draw this
million plus same night live viewership super encouraging. I mean,
WWE their lowest hour, the third hour did one point
six million, you know, I mean, aw's you know, close

(01:00:31):
it in on where you could imagine them being in
shouting to since I don't have the demos yet in
front of me for how AW did and the do
you see the man eighteen to forty nine or eighteen
to thirty four demo on your chart?

Speaker 2 (01:00:45):
Yeah, I can pull that up here, give me just
sick so men eighteen to thirty four. Now, actually I
don't see that. The overall eighteen to forty nine was
point thirty seven.

Speaker 1 (01:00:58):
That number compared to RAW rodded point four eight, So
point four eight to point three seven in all adults
eighteen to forty nine, that key demo. I mean, AW
is gonna be happy with that, because what USA is
paying for RAW is a lot more. There's a lot
bigger gap between that and then what a W than
what T and T is paying AW for that for
a demo number, that's you know, within twenty five percent,

(01:01:19):
So that I mean, I don't want overwhelm people's numbers
on audio, but that's a key number. If AW can
grow from there, that's good. And my my concern if
I'm AW is and AW tends to be pretty proud
of themselves. That's one of their traits, I think to
a fault. Maybe they're more self critical behind the scenes,
and you know what, when you're drawing a million plus people,
you know there they have reason to be confident that

(01:01:41):
what they're doing is working, even if we're critiquing aspects
of it that that we think would make them that
I would argue would make them grow faster. But I
wonder if last night's show was the right show to
get to get that viewership to come back and grow
or do they see a drop off. And unfortunately we
don't have that consistent Wednesday Wednesday Wednesday thing going, so

(01:02:03):
you can't really go well, if they're not on their
usual timeslot and they're not advertising it, it's tough to
then judge whether it was a timeslot move or they
peaked and people don't like what they saw and went away.
If they can keep around this number even without a
solid time slot, that's really encouraging. But I do have
to say, just for the sake of being an analyst
looking at the trend lines and trying to evaluate what's
working and what's not, I'm looking forward to October.

Speaker 2 (01:02:26):
Just getting things back to normal exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:02:28):
Yeah, because these are really interesting numbers. I mean XT
and AW are showing, you know, being on separate nights
might be good for both companies.

Speaker 2 (01:02:36):
Yeah, there's a lot, you know. My first reaction to
that was the idea of like NXT moving permanently to Tuesdays.
Vinch isn't gonna go for it. He wants to use
NXT to stunt the growth of AW and I think
that's probably what's going to happen. I don't know that
he's going to be in a hurry. I think obviously

(01:02:57):
moving nights would help NXT when you saw them last
week move into the top ten in the key demo
and they were down a little bit this week, I
think to fifteen or something like that. But you know,
I think the other side of it, there's a lot
of play here. USA Network might be like, you know,
do you can you sell them on? Well? Yeah, but

(01:03:18):
this hurts our competition. We don't want them to grow,
and it benefits you, right if we're the number one company.
If you're looking ahead, do you look at Paul Leveck
is being branded as a loser in this war against
the rivals, But he's the guy who, when something happens
to Vince is likely going to be taking over just
the face of the company, you know. I mean there's

(01:03:41):
I think there's good arguments back and forth on this,
and I don't know realistically if WWE will blink, if
that's something Vince wants to do. I just know selfishly,
wighed I did figure out over the last couple of weeks.
I like having it all in one night. I don't
like giving up an extra night off.

Speaker 1 (01:03:58):
Now that's interesting because to me it was sort of
I was I was, I get no, I totally get that.
But to me, it was more relaxing watching both NXT
and a W on back to back nights. Like when
I settled in to watch Dynamite, I was like, oh,
this is nice. I don't I'm not thinking about NXT
going on at the same time and what I'm missing
out on and what I have to watch next, Like
I get the night off thing. And I mean there's

(01:04:19):
pros and cons to both, because you know, everybody needs
time to recharge and all of that. But being able
to just have a night for n XT and have
a night for AW at least in the short run,
worked for me. But that said as selfishly as somebody
who's who's covering wrestling, the head to add battle is
really interesting and I and I would miss that if
we didn't get it. So yeah, I mean mixed feelings.

(01:04:43):
I mean, either way, it's it's four hours of wrestling
that I look forward to watching, and I think both
shows are largely good, even if I'm sound over. If
I sound especially critical of AW this week. It's because
I built up in my mind this week's show like
this was a show that was really going to move
things forward and and and resolve things and pull bring
things into focus. And I built this show up in
my mind as something that would be better than it

(01:05:04):
was and resolved more things. And I didn't get as
much of that. But in general, I really look forward
to that. It might really look for to an XT so
just being able to kind of have them each have
their own night, you know, it is something that that
was kind of nice this week. I guess I'll put
it that way.

Speaker 2 (01:05:17):
You must be hating Raw right now, where feuds just
don't change. Well, yeah, the entire like mid Card is
just the same matches week after week.

Speaker 1 (01:05:29):
Yeah yeah, I mean honestly, I don't. I don't dread
Raw Awn next year smack down right now. We'ven't SmackDown
when people have been ripping on it. It's been the
things that bother people about it. I get. I acknowledge
they just don't bother me as much. There's there's actually
things that I get more bothered by on shows that
I like more than the things that bother other people

(01:05:49):
on SmackDown on a show that I like less, and
I know that it's kind of hard to it's just,
you know, it's just on a personal level. You know,
there's just things that AW does that actually bug me
more than a lot of things that have been smacked
Down that bugeople on SmackDown more. But part of that
is to do is just what AW can be and
some of the nonsense that I think that that that
happens on that show that distracts from the things that
can really help it grow at a much faster speed.

Speaker 2 (01:06:12):
Yeah, so I think it's because of we're pressuring off
a good addition of SmackDown and they just turned reins.
I'm not dreading that show like I was for a while.
There Raw is the one right now. I mean, I
still enjoy McIntyre and Randy Orton in that program, and
there's there's things along the way. I think some of
it just my bitterness with that show. That show Monday

(01:06:33):
was just rough and two of the last three, the
one I think three episode was just brutally bad. It's
three hours, and I mean they're a big idea to
combat the ESPN Monday Night football doubleheader was to rush
into Oscar against Mickey James and give us a Champions
versus Champions tag team match. Yeah, you guys are on fire,

(01:06:54):
keep it up.

Speaker 1 (01:06:55):
Yeah, no, I know, I know. I don't know what
kind of hot shotting Raw should be doing up against
football either, you know, Like I just I mean, they
could have moved Rains to Raw.

Speaker 2 (01:07:09):
I think it's if you bothered advertise some matches until
like an hour before the show lately, but they're advertising
those matches for next week. I don't know what to
real like is do they think that's, oh, we're gonna
We're gonna show them, because I mean, seriously, you might
get one match advertised. I think they advertised Rollinson Mysterio

(01:07:30):
week out and they couldn't deliver because of a raised injury.
But other than that, this week was another case if
they didn't tell you anything until like an hour before
the show.

Speaker 1 (01:07:39):
Well, and that's and that's part of it. I mean,
is you have to come up with the stuff before
you advertise it, and I don't. I don't think that
they're thinking that far ahead. Most of the time.

Speaker 2 (01:07:47):
Well, I think the writers are. I just think they
get overruled at the last minute by a crazy elderly gentleman.

Speaker 1 (01:07:53):
Who might that be Jason?

Speaker 2 (01:07:56):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:07:57):
Yeah, we'll leave it to people people speculation. You don't
have to wait for the way Keller Pro Wrestling post
show to find out what I thought of Monday Night
Raw and SmackDown. Each week, you can check out my
reports that are updated live throughout Raw and SmackDown at

(01:08:18):
pwtorch dot com. My written report will tell you what's
happening in detail in case you missed the show, and
it will also analyze key segments and give my random
thoughts quips on what I am watching as it airs.
So check it out every Monday night and Tuesday night
at pwtorch dot com. That also applies to wwepayperviews. I
cover those live at pw torch dot com with a

(01:08:40):
detailed written report with star ratings. And of course you
can find other TV reports from other contributors to PW
torch such as nxt roh, Impact Wrestling and more. Check
it out pwtorch dot com your first stop for TV
and pay per view written reports.

Speaker 5 (01:09:00):
HM.

Speaker 1 (01:09:09):
So, speaking of of of Drew and Randy, how what
do you think of the true character? I mean, now,
we got rains as a clear cut, top chosen, chosen
top act on SmackDown, and you have Drew on Raw
and I think the comparisons are are there. There are
going to be there if they each remain champion for
a long time and then they're gonna, you know, eventually

(01:09:31):
cross paths. How is Drew doings as a lead babyface
with the handicap of not having that that true in person,
live crowd to play off of for that feedback.

Speaker 2 (01:09:42):
Best he can and I think he's doing a really
nice job they. I didn't like what Monday's Angle did
to Randy Orton, watching him take three Claymore kicks. I
know they were just trying to even the score up,
but I think it did send the message that they
are very serious about Drew mcint You don't see Randy Orton,
especially in the midst of this big heel run that

(01:10:04):
he's in, just take an ass kicking like that throughout
the course of a show. They are definitely in the
business of making Drew McIntyre look good. And even if
it came at the expense of Randy Orton for one week, cool,
because it's Randy Orton, He'll get his feedback. So I
was okay with it, but I think overall, yeah, McIntyre
can take when they give him a chance, he delivers

(01:10:25):
on the mic. He's been good in the ring that
there's really nothing to dislike there.

Speaker 1 (01:10:30):
Yeah, I thought I've been a fan of Drew McIntyre's act,
and I think playing off of somebody of Randy Orton's
legacy status and being treated as an equal as good.
Having Drew come back, define management and kick Randy Orton around.
I think that worked for me. I mean, I cause
there's going to be an EBB and flow to who

(01:10:50):
has the advantage and all that, and I'm interested to
see what Randy's pushback is on the mic and if
there's anything physically does and you know, I mean I
got a fill TV time and try to keep the
feud hot and so yeah, you know there's you can
you know, you can just do the formula of each week.
The rest are just talks. You know, we trust the
rest are just talk. But I get the challenge of

(01:11:12):
trying to figure out a way to get through on
TV and the real the just realistically needing to have
some interaction with Randy in some form or fashion to
create heat and an EBB and flow between. Who has
the advantage. So I was I was fine with with
what they did on Monday, and I look forward to
seeing what Randy how Randy responds, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:11:32):
I just wonder how many people actually see that. Where
are you at with that way, because normally we say, okay,
Monday night football, not just next week, but long term,
they're going to take a chunk out of the raw ratings.
But if we reach that point where this is just
the core wrestling audience, who's gonna watch, you know, no
matter what, almost they may lose a little, but it
may not be as much as most years.

Speaker 1 (01:11:53):
Well, I think with WWE, the the way to get
better ratings is to just have a better product overall,
you know, just have better booking, more appeal to the
core demographics in a better way. I mean, I got
my chart for the ratings since since you did and
the eighteen to thirty four mail demo AW did a

(01:12:15):
point twenty six. Raw did a point twenty nine. So
in that young male demo, aw ro still reaching more people,
by the way, but they have a massive advantage, you know,
I mean the idea that we're three tenths that it's
it's a ten percent difference between Ron's backdown right aw

(01:12:36):
right now for that eight for the Young Male Demo
is insane after less than a year, you know, so
that's you know, yes, RA is still drawing more, but
the inertia, the in the built in advantage that they
had in the budget and everything, it's just it's crazy
that it's that close. So RAW isn't gonna be able
to hot shot its way by putting on a supercard

(01:12:56):
on Monday. Now, they could do Draft night opposite of
Monday night football when a debut is you know, reshuffle
things in that way. And they could have done spin
the wheel, make it, you know, spin the wheel, pick
a gimmick. Iman, Yeah, I mean, they could do that stuff.
The fact that they're not, I think they're they're just
they've done this for so long. They've fought so many battles,

(01:13:17):
and the battle that counted the most was signing the
contract with Fox and NBC Universal, and once they did that,
I just think they're like, yeah, I mean they're just
sort of like, we got our money. There's going to
be a drop in rating when you go against football,
and that's just the way it's going to be. And
We're not going to pull our hair out trying to
prevent the inevitable from happening, and we're not going to
mess up our booking cadence trying to mitigate it when

(01:13:40):
it probably will have a negligible evact.

Speaker 2 (01:13:42):
Yeah, I mean, it's a long season. If they're assuming
they can play the full season, you start taking I
mean next week again, it is what a nine one
double header. It's the only time a year you face
a double header. There's all that excitement of it being
week one. But I do worry in a long term.
But like I said at the same time, I do
wonder if we reached that point where we're close to

(01:14:05):
this is just a hardcore wrestling number audience. They're they're
naturally going to lose a few people, but I don't
know that the cut is going to be as dramatic
because Raw still going against the NBA playoffs, the NHL playoffs,
and football is king. But still, I just I think
they've sunk so low that this is largely their core audience.

(01:14:28):
And yeah, I mean next week I do expect them
to take that big hit, but this season in general,
I just don't know the percentage is going to be
a steep Now.

Speaker 1 (01:14:36):
They threw two things out there on raw that were
meant to kind of freshen things up, broader ground and retribution.
Those are two concepts that they introduced to try to
add a little life to the show when the ratings
were on a slide on the retribution side of things.
Any any additional theories or conclusions on what this group

(01:14:57):
is going to end up revealing itself to be and
what where you know, where the endpoint is When we
talk about AW having an endpoint with the elite, well
that's been going on. You know, it feels like years,
but you know those storylines, but you know, for a
year roughly with Do to Be. It's only been a
few weeks with Retribution. But I think people are ready
to move on from flickering lights and taking over the

(01:15:18):
electronics and running it and hitting people and standing tall
and masks. So are we closer? Do you have an
idea where they're going with us?

Speaker 6 (01:15:26):
Not?

Speaker 2 (01:15:26):
I mean, I don't know what the explanation is going
to be. Obviously they're talking they're wronged by WWE somehow,
So it's led to a lot of speculation that this
is like people who were cut by the company at
one time or another. That does make me think that
what the cuts we just saw with AOP may not
be real, and I'll feel bad because I mean, it's
their employment. I don't like talking about that. If it's legit,

(01:15:49):
and you know, we'll find out. But the reason I
say that is because if you read their update, the
announcement of their release, I think almost every other time,
if not every other time, they've listed the real names
of the talent that they're really assuming. They didn't do
that here. They just didn't. They wished Akom and rais
are are the best in their future endeavors, and that
immediately grabbed my attention. Hmm, could this be storyline? And

(01:16:12):
it also I mean, yes, they've had a lot of injuries.
Why would Vince McMahon give up on two young jack dudes.
They're like twenty six and twenty seven years old. So
unless there's something that we don't know about from behind
the scenes, I know it's a pandemic and you got
to make some tough decisions. Those guys don't seem like
the type. So he's going to cut, especially with Awloman.

Speaker 5 (01:16:37):
I'm Chris Maitland and I'm justin McClelland we host Wrestling
Coast to Coast, where we scour the wrestling scene to
find the best wrestling from the smallest places.

Speaker 7 (01:16:45):
There are thousands of matches happening every week, so Wrestling
Coast to Coast is here to discover the men and
women who could be big time stars in a few years.

Speaker 5 (01:16:53):
There are plenty of podcasts to voters at w W
and AW, but what's happening in the armories and gymnasium's
local wrestling hotspots around the country.

Speaker 7 (01:17:00):
We can't wait to help you find the true hidden
gems of the wrestling world. Plus, you can hear Chris
complain about bad referees.

Speaker 5 (01:17:06):
And justin bemoaning dogpole fins.

Speaker 7 (01:17:08):
Don't forget my fetal search to see a blue thunderbomb
win a match.

Speaker 2 (01:17:12):
How can I like?

Speaker 5 (01:17:13):
The name says we cover the hottest independent promotions from
around the country, sou it as Prestige Action, West Coast,
Pro Revolver, and Beyond Wrestling.

Speaker 7 (01:17:21):
Actually, Chris, I think we stick pretty much to wrestling.

Speaker 2 (01:17:24):
No, I mean Beyond Wrestling out of Worcester, Oh right.

Speaker 5 (01:17:26):
Our show's part of the PW Torch Daily cast lineup
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Speaker 1 (01:17:54):
Well, we got an email from someone speculating on what
retribution might be. This is Opera from Brisbane, Australia. He goes,
I'm not suggesting for a minute that this is the case,
but could retribution consist of former WWE talent such as
Aaron Stevens. This could possibly be a reason for the miss,
the hint of miss having some sort of connection to

(01:18:16):
the group. I'm not sure what sort of character would
see Stevens perform as after seeing the promo and raw,
I grew some of your callers and emailers that Dominic
Dijakovic the second speaker at rear and Meam front left
or two of the members of the group. It also
makes sense for me to follow Keith Lee across to NNXT.
I love the show, thanks for all your content, so
I throw Aaron Stevens and me Am and Dijakovic out

(01:18:38):
there as possible connect as wrestlers among those who are
being speculated, Well, Aaron Stevens is a new one. But yeah,
how do you feel about the speculation you've heard Aaron
Stevens in particular and the other names in general.

Speaker 2 (01:18:50):
I don't really see where Stevens would fit in. Maybe
it's just because I'm so used to seeing him be
a really fun character of fun comedy heel in the
end of and then you think back, of course to Missdaw.
I really liked him in the NWA. Wasn't biger at
missed Ow, But a lot of people were can he
flip that switch? I just don't know that that's him.
I don't know that he's going to look the part.

(01:19:12):
So I can't tell you it's not that he's not involved,
but I can't say it excites me. There's I think
there's other things to do with him, add so mea
Yim lost that match you mentioned her, Chelsea Greens kind
of disappeared from NXT. There's a lot of speculations she
might be part of this. There's also speculation that Mercedes Martinez,

(01:19:35):
her loss to Ria Ripley in the cage match, may
have already been her NXT below off. She could be
part of this, and there's people who think that I
don't know, if I haven't looked closely enough that she
was the one delivering the female promo on Monday. I'm
not sure. So yeah, I mean there's and you know,
we don't know if all these people playing these parts
are actually going to be unmastered, if they're just stand ins.

(01:19:57):
But it's not like they're this wealth of talent out
there right now. I mean, with aw and just all
these other promotions, I don't I can't think of too
many people. I can't. I mean, the only one that
jumped out at me was Hey, Wade Barrett signed, Yeah,
they're gonna do something with like a new new next

(01:20:19):
you know bringing. I don't know that he wants to
wrestle though, but could he be the spokesperson for it?

Speaker 1 (01:20:24):
He's still good on color commentary. I don't want him
to be a leader of a faction when he's doing
such a good job on color commentary. But I mean
it wouldn't be bad. I mean, we got an advertised
match this week, so that's something. But and it sort
of takes place.

Speaker 2 (01:20:38):
That once before and didn't deliver. Don't get your hopes.

Speaker 1 (01:20:40):
Up, and most of it took place off camera. Like
I love how there's this intense fight. You got to
see this, it's going It's great, say shaneing Man. Oh,
they fall out of the ring. Art, we'll cut to
a break and they come back and they go to
a different match and they you know, ten minutes later
they go back to the ring. Is is it working
for you? What do you think?

Speaker 2 (01:21:00):
No? I don't. I keep waiting for something to happen
and nothing really happens. It's like I like Bobbitunde. I
think the Dabocato's what they call now when they were
showing our tour hu Us, I like him. I remember
him from the Evault pay per view, and it's like, Okay,
if you're going to introduce a couple of guys this
way rather than standard squash, you want to introduce them

(01:21:22):
this way, then do the standard squash thing with them. Fine,
But I don't really get dolfh Ziggler showing up and
having fights and the Viking Raiders having fights, and even
if like the Viking Raiders can work that style, okay,
Like why are they doing it? What's where is this going?
And I don't know if it's connected to retribution somehow.

(01:21:42):
I hope it is and there's an actual end date
to this, because it just seems like here's a thirty
second fight, yay, and here's another one and oh yeah,
the one time a fight goes along, they feel they
need to show us the handicap with Naya Jacks or
whatever or Shana Basler, whatever it was, instead of the

(01:22:04):
actual good fight. It just doesn't seem to be going anywhere.
I don't know that there's a real vision for this
other than tune in to watch them thirty second fights
in the third hour of Raw.

Speaker 1 (01:22:16):
Yeah, I'm not. I don't have more confidence that there's
some big story arc planned for this, and it really
is just a concept to shake things up because we
don't have live crowds, and I could see this just
fading away. I could see maybe a loose idea is
whoever the four standouts are, and they don't even have

(01:22:38):
it master planned out. But let's say the idea is,
ultimately we're gonna just pick four guys who have looked
the best. Shane's gonna have a rounder ground tournament of
champions and they're gonna have a semi finals in a final,
and that's it. And then it just maybe comes back
in the future, maybe doesn't. And to me, that's kind
of where I'm leaning. I think it's open ended. I
don't think they have a master plan. Maybe they want
to get one or two guys over, and that takes

(01:22:59):
place in sort of semi final when they're ready to
write out the right off the concept.

Speaker 2 (01:23:03):
Maybe I just don't know that it's all worth it.
I don't know. I don't feel it. Yeah, if you
want to introduce to Abocato this way, okay, But couldn't
you get the same effect out of just doing it
having him destroy people in thirty second squashes using that
same style?

Speaker 1 (01:23:19):
Yeah you could. Again, I think this is more like,
you know, Vince, go and give me some ideas. Rating
suck and this was, you know, pre pre a thunderdome.
So let's do something that shakes up the look of
the show. And I it just comes across like that
to me. It doesn't seem like this this concept that
has a higher aspiration than let's get through the next
month or two with something different. And they formulate this

(01:23:42):
and and you know, they know the minute. They can
look at the minute by minutes and decide if they
want to keep it around longer or shorter based on
whether it's holding interest. I don't know that it's doing
great damage. I mean it's it is a break in
the pace and format. I don't dread watching it, but
it feels like a band aid on on a larger
issue with with you know, WW and Raw then some

(01:24:03):
great concept that's going to stick around indefinitely.

Speaker 2 (01:24:07):
You know. My favorite part of Raw has become that
those like Better fifteen seconds they spend patting themselves on
the back over how great the underdome is and how
totally universe by storm yetill, I just like, who do
you think you're fooling with? We see it, we see
what it is. It's fine, but nobody's freaking out about it.

Speaker 1 (01:24:30):
I know, yeah, yeah it is. Uh. The superlatives that
get officially assigned to things are always are always fun
to watch.

Speaker 2 (01:24:38):
When Michael Cole can go the hell back to smack
kinda stay there. You can pick on Tom Phillips for
being a robot. He doesn't use those same three words
about Drew McIntyre over and over and over again. We'll
see if he gets forced to this week. If it
was a coal thing or a Vince McMahon thing. But
oh my god, was that annoying.

Speaker 1 (01:24:54):
Yeah, how do you think Vik Joseph's doing on NXT?

Speaker 2 (01:24:56):
By the way, he's got big shoes to fill you.
I guess I think Wade Bear is so good that
I haven't really keyed in on Vic yet. But I
liked Vick when he was on Raw. I thought he
was fine, and so I think he'll do a good
job here. It's just, you know, there's a noticeable difference
without Morrow, and for some people that's a good thing,

(01:25:16):
for others it's a bad thing. I tended to enjoy
Morrow's work. I thought he really became that voice of NXT.
But you know, I'm not going to hold that against
Vic Jos.

Speaker 1 (01:25:27):
Anytime you're watching ww E Raw or SmackDown or AEW
Dynamite in particular, send us an email if you've got
thoughts on the show, or a topic you want us
to address, or a question for us. Wade Keller Podcast
at pwtorch dot com, Wadkeller Podcast at pewtorch dot com.
If there's anything else going on in pro wrestling that
you want us to address on our main podcast during

(01:25:48):
our Mailbank segments. That same email applies. Wade Keller podcast
at pwtorch dot com. We invite that interaction. Let us
know what you think of what we're saying, and let
us know what you want us to talk about and
ask us specific questions. Wade Keller Podcast at PW torch
dot com. Finn Balor Adam Cole Tuesday Night. We haven't

(01:26:13):
delved into a big episode of NXT at I know
your reference to the cage match a moment ago, Finn
Balor winning the NXC title in twenty three minutes. I
was thinking Ballor was all along that Balor was a
good choice because I feared that if he didn't win,
it would sort of define him down as a guy
who couldn't cut out of the main roster. And now
he's just sort of a legacy guy gatekeeper putting people

(01:26:36):
over on NXT. But his career is winding down. This
I think establishes that he is relevant and he's at
the top of his game. And in a meta sense,
you still have room to convince your viewership, and it's substantial.
I mean a twenty eight fifty the last two weeks.
You know, that's that's nice viewership. That's half of what's

(01:26:58):
roster at hourdrew this past week, and I think they
can grow from there. But you're telling that audience NXT
is doing a better job than Vince did with Balor,
and I think part of n XT's brand has to
be that that guys that Vince doesn't know what to
do with, or lose his interest in, or utilize this poorly.
We can be the reclamation site for them. You can't
do that with a bunch of guys. But Baler is

(01:27:18):
a certainly a good candidate, and I think I think
it's working. So I liked that call, and I like
Adam Adam Cole pivoting to something else your thoughts.

Speaker 2 (01:27:28):
I do like it. Yeah, that was my guess when
they were doing the four way, just looking at the candidates, like, yeah,
you know, we've kind of we've obviously just been there
and done that. With Cole, it's more intriguing to me
to see what comes next for Cole after that long
title ran, rather than putting the belt ramp back on
him and Champa even and Gergano kind of same thing.
And so Balor gives them that face of the brand

(01:27:50):
as the champion. He's versatile in terms of he can
work for you know, he can work against baby faces
and heels and do whatever they want him to do.
And ye, this this does make him feel really relevant again.
So I thought that was the right move, and now
that I think of it, one other thing to add
to my AOP conspiracy theory. Even Events didn't want him,
look at the NXT Tag division. You can't tell me

(01:28:12):
Triple H wouldn't be like, can't We'll take him back?

Speaker 1 (01:28:16):
Yeah? Yeah. Match quality wise, I really liked what they
did with Balor and Colt, two babyfaces wrestling largely within
the ropes, telling a nicely paced story, you know, starting
off in first and second gear, then kicking it up.
I just I thought it was a smart, efficient, effective

(01:28:37):
match that didn't overdo it on finish your kickouts, but
had just enough to match I think a good twenty
twenty style.

Speaker 2 (01:28:43):
Your thoughts yet very good. That was Obviously, there's just
some matches like gosh, I wish there was a crowd here,
and that's one of them. But they did a great job.
I think the fun thing I'm looking forward to, it's
just a small detail, is so eventually think I mean,
if they don't do another title change, we're gonna get
Finn Balor defending against carry on Cross, and just how

(01:29:05):
much will they reference Finn being the guy who won
the title and had to forfeit it, albeit a different championship,
you know, when he won that Universal title and had
to forfeit the next day, which is exactly what Cross
had to do. I think that kind of sets up
a fun scenario there.

Speaker 1 (01:29:19):
Yeah, yep. Overall, how do you feel about just the
NXT brand? Are they in a good spot rebuilding? Like
where do you evaluate kind of the scheme of things
coming out of Takeover and now entering the fall season.

Speaker 2 (01:29:34):
Yeah, Tag division is definitely down. That's probably the weak
spot right now for NXT. Otherwise, I think they're in
a pretty good place. We don't know who's all going
up officially because of retribution, but you know they have
Champis back, and it sucks they lost Cross and losing
Keith Leaven Though it may not feel like a big

(01:29:55):
deal right now, I've seen what they're doing with them
on Raw, which, eh, it is a big loss. So
you lose your the two guys who just headlined your
Takeover show. But yet you know, it feels like there's
plenty going on and it doesn't feel like they're going
to skip a B so I think they're they may
be losing this ratings battle or viewership battle to AW

(01:30:16):
Dynamite on a regular basis, but it doesn't mean it's
a bad show. It's in a very entertaining show.

Speaker 1 (01:30:20):
Yeah yeah.

Speaker 8 (01:30:29):
Are you a fan of AW looking to sit back,
relax and listen to some like minded podcasters who share
your passion?

Speaker 6 (01:30:36):
Do you want to be topped off the ledge after
a segment that has you wondering what the heck are
they thinking?

Speaker 8 (01:30:41):
Do you want to join a discussion on what AW
is doing right and what they could do to improve,
Then join me Joel and me.

Speaker 6 (01:30:48):
Greg for the All Elite Conversation Club every Friday on
the pw torch Live Cast. Fee search pw torch in
your podcast app and subscribe to pw torch Daily Cast
or stream our shows directly from pw torch dot com.
Find full details on the pw torch Daily Cast lineup
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Speaker 1 (01:31:16):
You got to give some slack to a company that
loses arrest so that they were just ready to build around.
So I I, you know, I give them some some
wiggle room there, just like I did for a w
when they were dealing with a pandemic and limited roster
and doing the Georgia tapings and you know all of that.
I mean, so out of fairness you do that. But
NXT just it's it's the highs aren't as high, the
lows aren't as low. But I think it's a fundamentally

(01:31:42):
sound show that knows what it is and has a
certain certain parameters that it it that it that it
books within. When it comes to the wrestling matches, the
dinner with the Garganos and Robert Stone uh Brezongo that
those are things that go a little bit against I

(01:32:03):
think the perception and the history of what NXT is
or even should be. Yet at the same time, there
there's other things that they're doing that that can see
that that show they're not moving away from from what
they once were. Just just the way that they're pushing
Browns and rate like is just it's so NXT. You know,
to to establish a new guy and and to and

(01:32:26):
to do it in this kind of thoughtful, methodical way
getting a good win against Austin theory, but both guys
kind of win in the process based on how they're featured,
but so NXT is not losing its identity with me.
But I think they're trying to sprinkle in some other
things to see if they can't expand their viewership or
or or break up the idea that the show is

(01:32:46):
just for a certain type of fan and you can
try to be all things tall people and be nothing
nothing that anybody likes. But I get and and I'm
okay with them trying to inject some other things into
the product.

Speaker 2 (01:33:02):
And so.

Speaker 1 (01:33:04):
How do you feel about that? Do you think it's
that Dinner with the Gargado's and Robert Stone in particular
are turning people off? Or do you think that it's
fine or do you think it's even good to add
that stuff ted X team.

Speaker 2 (01:33:17):
It's turning me I just because I think they could
be doing more with Robert Stone as a real manager,
not the comedy figure manager. I think there's some talent there,
and it's just the same joke every week. It's how
do they get to it? How did this guy be
made a fool of weekend and week out? He plays
it well, but for me, it's like, well, if you

(01:33:37):
did that once every six months instead, it would mean something.
I don't think the gag is as cute as they
think it is, and I think they're squandering a talent there.
But as far as like the bigger picture of adding
some of that, I don't personally need it. But if
they feel like, hey, you know that we need to
sprinkle in a little Vince McMahon haha to keep him happy,

(01:33:59):
or they actually think that's it's a key ingredient, okay,
we'll see. I don't think it is. I don't think
it I don't think it matters. I just I think
there's an audience that would appreciate it pretty straightforward product,
and I just I don't always think that those things
are as beneficial as they do.

Speaker 1 (01:34:18):
So what do you think about what Impact Dressing has
done coming out of Slammiversary? They had an influx of
new names. Are you in favor of what they're doing
with Eric Young and how hard they're pushing them considering
how he was utilized by NXT and especially w MA
and Roster.

Speaker 2 (01:34:35):
I'm fine with Eric Young in this position because I
think Impact has accepted themselves for what they are now.
They're not competing with WWE directly in a realistic way,
and he is somebody that means something in their world.
I would have had an issue because somebody told me, like,
when didn't they just do it on night one? You know,
he came in just having win it Slamniversary. I would

(01:34:58):
have rejected that that was you know, it's like, oh,
this is your big surprise as Eric Young and he
wins the title. No, but you established who he was
quickly and effectively. He is now just this maniacal character.
I wish he'd stopped referring to himself as a world
class maniac because maniacle people don't say that about themselves,
but he does. But otherwise, you know, he comes in

(01:35:20):
and he throws the fit, He beats the holy hell
out of rich Swan. He takes the title, and they
do the Swan retirement angle, and obviously I would think
that's going to be yours Bound for Glory Maine event.
Is rich Swan returning to look for revenge and try
to take that title. It doesn't bother me that he
didn't work in WWE, because again, he means something there,
and I think most people are just gonna look at

(01:35:41):
it as they could have done more with him. I
don't think they needed to in ww could they have
done a little more sure? Was he going to be
a star for them to No, So I don't blame
WW in this case, but I also think, yeah, he's
a nice fit for Impact, and they shouldn't be leary
in his case going oh wwe wasted this guy and

(01:36:02):
made him look bad. We can't be doing more with him.
I wish they'd be doing more with Heath than recreating
his weird SmackDown storyline. Gall was and andersenter there. They
looked strong early and maybe it's just a week where
they really didn't have much to do. So that's why
I'm kind of lukewarm on it. But EAC three has

(01:36:23):
been compelling. Trying to think of who else.

Speaker 1 (01:36:26):
With what city machine guns are? You know?

Speaker 2 (01:36:29):
Yeah, yeah, I think dayle nice editions.

Speaker 1 (01:36:31):
Yeah yeah, Like I mean, I think they'd be a
good addition to AW if there's a roster room for
them or heck ww E in the take of it, I.

Speaker 2 (01:36:40):
Think Saban works behind the scenes and Impact because I
remember asking somebody about them for you know, another group,
and whether this was before he went to Impact and
was still like Saban only wants to work Impact. I mean,
doesn't mean if the money's there that things might be different.
But yeah, they've been a really nice addition, and I
know there's somebody else and I'm forgetting that came into

(01:37:02):
probably in the women's division, I mean definitely. Deanna Pozo
has been really strong, and then they're trying to make
it work again with Tonil Dashwood. I nobody's been able
to since the Emma days in NXT. Maybe this will
be the time. I don't know, but they're trying to
give her a boost. We'll see how that goes.

Speaker 1 (01:37:24):
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(01:38:07):
The controversy over WWE, wrestlers and third party social media.
I hope AW settles down on referencing it. You know,
have your fun, but then move on. But how do
you how do you feel about that? Ww put their
statement out they compare themselves what to Disney and and

(01:38:30):
Marvel or something like that. I can't remember exactly in
their release what companies they reference, but I mean, is
there something to that? Are they you know? I mean
Disney had this reputation for you know, if you were
a daycare center and you painted at Mickey Mouse on
the window, you know, within hours there'd be some guy
from Disney, some lawriyor from Disney knocking at your door,
go and take that down. You don't have rights to it.
But there's you know, there's something on the legal side

(01:38:50):
of things about there's a wrestling there's a perception of
wrestlers as independent contractors and where wrestling came from and
w and WWE sort of inheriting that as part of
their model. And then there's also if you were to
start a wrestling company from scratch and you were to say,
let's create the Fiend and let's hire someone to play

(01:39:13):
that role. It totally makes sense that WWW wouldn't want
that person to be going out and monetizing that independently
and separately of their oversight. And so is WWE ignoring
what wrestling is or are people on the wrestling side
of things not taking into account what WWE has, for
better or for worse, actually become, and that it is

(01:39:37):
different than sports entertainment. And then there's a side issue
of how they tried to script past regardless of what
our contracts say with our talent, which was, you know,
pretty pretty rich of them. But anyway, your thoughts Jason
on all this, So.

Speaker 2 (01:39:50):
If it is, then I don't think it's the hang
up is with Undertaker wants to take his Undertaker name
somewhere that or fill in you mentioned the Fiend. No,
I'm sorry, but those talents can't monetize that without WWE
being involved in getting their cut. The issue is we'll

(01:40:15):
just stick with the Fiend. If the Fiend wants to
put his real name out there Wyndham Rotunda and make
some money off it that way, should he be able
to It depends on what the contract reads, and it
depends on whether or not that can actually be enforced
regardless of what it reads. And I just don't know.
It'd certainly be we're talking to a lawyer about but

(01:40:37):
you it might be one of those things where you
talk to two lawyers and they tell you two different things.
I wouldn't like because I don't know that back in
the day, hul Cogan could have gotten away with well, yeah,
but Terry Balay is, like, you know, doing this commercial
under his real name, and things would have been fine.
I mean, it's been this way for years with their characters.

(01:40:59):
They create the character. Even if you create it within
the company, they still maintain the rights. It's something that
Impact tried doing force and legally they could have. My
issue with Impact wasn't so much that they were yes,
this happened the Matt Hardy character the Broken Universe. From
a legal standpoint, you may be in the right on this.

(01:41:22):
From a moral standpoint, you're not, and you're not going
to do anything with it. You're just trying to stop
him from using something that, let's face it, he buy
and large created. If it were WWE, they wouldn't have
backed down like Impact. I give Impact credit I think
for where they are in the world, it makes sense
to try to be a little more wrestler friendly rather

(01:41:42):
than just try to be you know, bully their way
into no, you're not taking your gimmick with you. So
they did the right thing. But with WWE, I'm never
surprised when they try to protect their character names. But
there again, I don't know enough from a legal stand
I wouldn't think you could stop Windham Rotunda from doing

(01:42:03):
something if he went under that name and there was
no reference to the Fiend and he didn't dress like
the Fiend.

Speaker 1 (01:42:09):
Yeah, yeah, I want to you know, see how this
plays out a little bit more of WWE loosens up
or or or pushes back harder on this, and I
you know, ultimately, how big of a deal is it
for wrestlers? You know, WWE said in their press release,
by having the type of control over how our characters

(01:42:33):
and being able to monetize our wrestlers when they work
for us, capitalizing on simply the fact that they work
for us is part of what allows us to pay
them well. And that can open up a can of
worms too with WWE, in terms of you know, wrestler's
going Okay, you've now bragged how you're paying us. Well,
that opens the door. How well are you paying us?
Let's see, you know what percentage is going to this

(01:42:55):
and that, and it's it's I don't know the legal
in and outs enough to know. And even Tony Kahan,
you know, when he was asked about it, hedged. I
don't know if hedges a word, but he was like,
you know, I want to be better than that. But
I also understand, you know, WWE's desired to not let
things get you know, out of hand in terms of
this this new this new landscape, this this new world

(01:43:18):
of how restlers can find a way to monetize themselves
separate from working for the company. So I don't know.
I I think it's it's it's if anyone sees this
as cut dry and real simple, I would like to
hear that argument, because to me, I think we're in
kind of new frontiers and it just it's something that
needs to kind of work itself out. And my knee

(01:43:39):
jerk reaction isn't I don't have any jerk reaction pro
or con, as much as I kind of want to
learn more and really try to be fair to both
sides and also, yeah, just to understand your.

Speaker 2 (01:43:54):
Okay, wait if they may yeah, if so, they cited Marvel.
I'm trying to think the Thor the guy who plays
Thor what's his name? Do you know if oh gosh,
I can't. I just can't think of it as one
of the brothers. I'll look it up here while we're talking.

(01:44:14):
But so Thor actor if he wants to go out
and shoot a commercial Chris Hemsworth. If Chris Hamsworth wants
to go out and shoot a commercial for McDonald's and
he does it as Chris Hemsworth and there's no Thor
hammer and there's no Thoror costume, well shut up, Marble,

(01:44:37):
there's nothing you can say about Yeah, yeah, you know that.
I think that's the key thing here where obviously if
he dresses up like Thor, then Marbles can be like,
wait a minute, we want to cut of this and
that I think that's what WW is trying to do
with these talents.

Speaker 1 (01:44:50):
So what what's an example of where you think WWE
has gone too far based on wrestler who works in quote,
someone who's who's an independent contractor according to the contract
that they signed, doing something that we're ww's overstepping their
bounds and saying don't do that anymore.

Speaker 2 (01:45:10):
Might be this might be cam if they're using their
real names, they you know, that would be an interesting
legal debate. If you you know, I'm assuming AJ Styles
is on there as Alan Jones. I don't know. I'm
not a Twitch guy. But if he, if he's on
on there is AJ Styles, well that's an issue. Then

(01:45:31):
you know, WWE can tell him to stop that. But
if he's on there using his real name, I don't
see why he wouldn't have the right to be able
to do that. Again, they're wording of their contract may
say otherwise, But well.

Speaker 1 (01:45:43):
And then what's he doing? What's what's he doing on Twitch?
Is it playing off of AJ Styles the character and
the rest?

Speaker 2 (01:45:50):
He's playing video games and answering fan questions?

Speaker 1 (01:45:53):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:45:54):
Just so, I mean, if Chris Hemsworth does a fan
convention and people ask him but thor he doesn't know
them anything.

Speaker 1 (01:46:00):
Yeah, no, And then that's that's where w W says, you
don't we're going to take advantage of the independent contractor
classification and not having to you know, pay medical insurance
and four one ks and vacations and everything that comes
with being classified as a full fledged employee. But you're
not going to be able to under your own name
play video games online and not do it in a

(01:46:22):
way that's trying to you know that that's playing off
of your your character. In other words, you know the
proverbial thor hammer isn't involved. I mean that does seem
like ww is overreaching, Yes, yeah, yeah, but if if
somebody is is going on social media and putting content

(01:46:45):
out where it's very WWE driven in terms of their character,
the questions are all about I don't know, but even then,
like the idea.

Speaker 2 (01:46:53):
That's where Zack Ryder ran into an issue.

Speaker 1 (01:46:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (01:47:02):
Longing for some nostalgia or maybe you want to learn
some wrestling history, don't miss the nineties Past Cast Every
Friday on the PW Torch Daily Cast feed. Alex and
Patrick will transport you thirty years into the past by
taking you through the Torch issue from that very week.
Follow news from the WWF and WCW and all the

(01:47:22):
happenings from across the wrestling industry in real time as
The Torch reported it thirty years ago. That's the nineties
Past Cast, Every Friday on the PW Torch, Daily Cast Feed.

Speaker 1 (01:47:42):
Well, because if you're doing Q and A about as
an independent contractor, actor, athlete and a sports entertainer, and
you want to do a Q and A about your
decision to work for w the character you play, and
you're out of character, I mean you should be able
to talk about your job with WWE on social media.

Speaker 2 (01:48:04):
I don't see why not.

Speaker 1 (01:48:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:48:06):
So I think obviously with WWE is trying to do
I believe, whether it's with Cameo or whether it's with
Twitch or a competitor of those services, they want to
get some big group thing. WWE has to deal with
this outlet, and they're going to exclaim all the wrestlers
are going to benefit from it. If they do. You know,

(01:48:27):
history says it'll probably be for pennies on the dollar
if they even see anything.

Speaker 1 (01:48:31):
Yeah, yep. And if that's the grander strategy, and that's
all there is. I don't blame do to B for saying, hey,
we want to make as much money as we can
with the talent that we want, But to say that
that would then exclude wrestlers who we benefit by classifying
as the independent contractors, and they slip that line in there
regardless of how we classify them. That's just a technicality.

(01:48:54):
If you stop them from actually being able to be
independent and engaging this stuff, I don't think that would
I mean, in that circumstance, I don't think it would
hold up. I just I think that it's the key
is is are they in some tangible or just anyone
would see it as such that they're playing the character
they play on WWE. But then you know this, this

(01:49:16):
then gets into you know, people who complain for years
why does w always change everybody's name and why do
they have to do that? And it's like, well, this
is why they do it, you know, because as a business,
they have people on the business side and the legal
side saying, if we're going to monetize these characters, we
need to make sure they're they're they're differentiated from anything
else anywhere, you know, from anything that they've been doing
anywhere else where. They already established themselves. You know, Christian

(01:49:36):
got to be Christian Cage in TNA because they didn't
change him enough. Although I don't think W. B. Carod
enough when they called him Christian when he first arrived.
I don't think they thought that would be a problem.

Speaker 2 (01:49:46):
But he used that game prior to w W.

Speaker 1 (01:49:48):
A that's my thing. And so when when he became
Christian in w B, W didn't go, well, you can't
be Christians do in Christian Cage. And someday that's going
to really, you know, come back to bite us when
you go to a competitor and use Christian Cage as
the name. Again my point, you know, so my point
is w's you know, doing their thing. Wrestlers are going
to push back. But if w B overreaches and push
and try to pull back on things that wrestlers are

(01:50:09):
doing that they just find fun, you know, and it's
it keeps them saying they're not working house shows. And
in a way, you know, they see it as as
helping build up a fan base that benefits WWE. It
is going to play into WWE not being a wrestler
friendly place to work. And I think that's the balance
Tony CON's trying to find, is you know, and sometimes
he might go too far the other way, and you

(01:50:29):
can see him trying to speak carefully because he doesn't
want to say something and then have to back down
from it, and he you know, does want to protect
the intellectual property of aw but also not come across
as as just control freaks trying to pinch every penny
out of out of talent and treating them like you
own every aspect of their of their lives, even when
it's not part of their official WWB job duties.

Speaker 2 (01:50:50):
Yeah, and just to be clear, this isn't the wrestlers
are just having fun in their downtime and there's nothing
in it for them. I mean, this is there's financial
motivations and you know for doing cameo, especially just and
it's not you know, if you want to sit there
on twition and play video game, you're getting money for it.
And so that's this has become kind of a side

(01:51:11):
income for especially you know, some of the lower end
talent that isn't being paid a lot of money by WWE.
They're the ones who I think they're going to take
the biggest hit AJ Styles. I'm sure is being very
well compensated and extra money's nice, but he can live
without it. It is those lower end talents that you
feel for that. You know, it's just the way the

(01:51:32):
history works with the company and the wrestling business. They're
going to not be able to they you know, somebody
may try to voice their opinion, but it usually comes
back to haunt them. If the higher the wrestlers who
are higher on the food chain were being paid more money,
as long as they're compensated, well, chances are they're not
going to squawk about something like this because it's not

(01:51:53):
a big source of revenue for them. They may put
up a little fuss initially, but as long as they're
told a, we're going to make it up to you,
that's great. But it's the lower end talent that has
to just sit there and take it, and that that part,
to me, is very unfortunate, but that's the wrestling business.

Speaker 1 (01:52:07):
And so on a on a scale of one to
five sympathizing with wrestlers one to five sympathizing with w
w E, and you could be five on both or
one on both in the sense of, hey, w B
has a right to fight for what they want, but
I get the wrestler's perspective too, or one w five wrestlers,
I'm totally synthetic. Wrestlers and w are just there, you know, overreaching,

(01:52:28):
and they're treating their their talent like they own them,
even though they don't want to pay them. Benefits, like
where are you on that five one to five for
wrestlers and one to five for for w W E.

Speaker 2 (01:52:38):
Okay, so two separate issues. When it comes to hey,
I want to I want to be the undertaker and
go on cameo and go on on Twitch. But I
don't want to give you a penny w W A
screw you well behind WWE. That's just not fair. That's
that is their name, it's you know, it's their creation.

(01:52:58):
When it's hey, I want to go is Mark Hallaway
and be on Twitch and be on cameo, and I
don't want to give you anything, I'm probably at like
a four because it is some of it is the notoriety.
I guess you know, if I'm WWE, I know these
talents are making extra money that in many cases they
could use. Come up with a fair compromise, not just

(01:53:22):
one that really benefits the company and adds extra work
to the plate of these talents who can kind of
pick and choose when they do it now and now
you're just going to add it to their regular schedule
and you've got to be on Twitch at this time. No,
make it worth their while and not just good for
the company. So it's good for you.

Speaker 1 (01:53:41):
Yeah, yep, fair enough, Jase. Anything else you want to bring.

Speaker 2 (01:53:45):
Up, Man, I think we've covered a lot of groundew
but there's that pay per view series that starts Tuesday
that they're not doing a good job of promoting at all. Yeah,
I mean I wish them well, but I didn't. I
keep waiting for them to do some form of advertising

(01:54:05):
or get some people out there for interviews, and so
far nothing's really happening. They're just hoping. You got the
initial press release that you had to go to their
Twitter page to find. It's it's really strange with.

Speaker 1 (01:54:15):
We were talking before we went on the air about
the NFL season kind of sneaking up on us without
the preseason games and all that, but looking forward to it.
Do you have an official pick for Viking Packers or
do you have not enough to base it on when
it comes to our kicking off the season with with
a I mean, I guess I'll ask it this way.
Would you rather they play each other Week one or

(01:54:36):
would you rather know a little bit more about both
teams before they play each other?

Speaker 2 (01:54:40):
Yeah? Normally I'd be like, hey, let's get it on.
This is great. They did that that year, I don't know.
I think it was cousins first year early in the
season at Lambeau and it was a lot of fun.
But this year i'd much rather and part of it's
the Viking personnel do this a little bit. You know,
give us week five, week six before the first one
because we have new cornerbacks going against Aaron Rodgers. There's

(01:55:04):
no preseason games, you know, there's I would like to
kind of ramp up to it. But also it is,
you know, on a personnel basis, let some of those
younger players kind of settle in. But you know, hey,
they're in the same spot with some of their players,
and I think we have we've had more turnover than them.
But I picked the Packers to win, and it's not
It could be because Rogers picks them apart, but I

(01:55:26):
think it's because the Vikings have a pretty noticeable hole
up the middle. I think teams are going to really
be able to run run up the gut on them.
They had that free agent addition that was just and
they because they let Linval Joseph go and then they
brought in I think it was Michael Pierce to play
defensive tackle and he opted out due to health issues
with with COVID. I think he is asthmatic or something,

(01:55:49):
you know, totally understandable that he would opt out, but
they haven't been able to replace him, and so I
don't I think there's good They're going to struggle to
just stop the basic on up the middle, and I
think that's going to be until they can shure that up.
You know, it could be a long season with teams
just getting very basic and running right up the cut
on us and that's not being able to do anything
about it.

Speaker 1 (01:56:09):
Well, now I'm like thirty percent less excited about Sunday. Jason.

Speaker 2 (01:56:12):
Thanks. Hey, the last time I was really down on
the Vikings was against the New Orleans Saints and the
playoffs and that worked out.

Speaker 1 (01:56:18):
Okay, all right, I'll take that. I'll take that.

Speaker 2 (01:56:21):
Yeah cool.

Speaker 1 (01:56:22):
Well, thanks Jason. We'll take a deep breath with no
major wrestling shows on pay per view this weekend for
the first time in a while, and we'll talk to
you down the line.

Speaker 2 (01:56:33):
Sounds great.

Speaker 1 (01:56:34):
Way invite you to email the show with feedback or

(01:56:56):
questions or comments. That email address is Wade Keller podst
at pewtorch dot com. That's Wadkeller Podcast at PW torch
dot com. Also welcome your feedback on Twitter. Even follow
us on Twitter at pw torch and follow me at
the Wadekeller. That's at PW Torch and at the Wadekeller.

Speaker 2 (01:57:17):
Searching for more great pro wrestling talk, then join me.
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