5 YRS AGO FLAGSHIP: Keller & Powell talk Reigns-Uso, Takeover, Drew-Orton, WWE Women’s Division, Upcoming Draft, ROH, Impact

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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(01:05):
Now PW Torch and Spreaker bring you the Wade Keller
Pro Wrestling Podcast ten years ago. This week on the Flagship,
I was joined by Jason Hotwell from Pro Wrestling dot
Net and the Pro Wrestling Boom podcast. We discussed the
Roman Range against jay Uso and where they go from there.
A preview of NXT Takeover, the future of Drew McIntyre

(01:27):
and Randy Orton's feud, the WWE Women's Division post draft,
other potential key talent moves, the Rohpure tournament t and
Ampak's use of new stars, the Christ Jericho MJF feud,
Kenny Omega's character, COVID outbreaks, and more. So let's get
to it. This originally live streamed on September twenty eighth,

(01:48):
twenty fifteen, and it is today's wad Keller Pro Wrestling
Podcast ten years ago Flagship Flashback for Sunday, September twenty eighth,
twenty twenty five. Jason, we just had Lash Champions and
all of a sudden, now we have Takeover to talk
about tomorrow night, NXT. You will kind of drive home
their key storylines first things first, and we'll get to

(02:09):
Kyler Riley challenging for the title, because I want to
talk about that and how they told that story last Wednesday.
But I like when Takeover is on Sunday, a week
apart from a WWE pay per view, I get that
they don't do that on big weekends when they're selling
tickets in the same city. So you know, you make
extra money, you create a weekend event of it. You
sort of keep someone else, like Ring of Honor whoever,
from having a Saturday night to themselves on a big

(02:30):
summer Slam WrestleMania Rumble weekend. I get that we don't
have live ticket sales. It's not one of those big
weekends where people travel. I like Takeover having a weekend
to itself. We get to spend this week on the
Weight Color Prosing podcast talking about it, you know, it
to be a topic of conversation instead of getting drowned out.
I think that's better for them. Do you agree?

Speaker 2 (02:50):
I do selfishly. I just wish it was on a
Saturday instead of a Sunday. I don't know why they
choose to compete with the NFL like they do. But
aside from that, yeah, I mean I do enjoy the
big loaded weekends too, but this one it's not even
so much to it. Like, how rushed is this show?
They should have just kept the gold Rush slogan and

(03:11):
just knocked off the gold and called a takeover rush.
I mean, it's they're just throwing this thing together.

Speaker 1 (03:17):
Well, it's a it's very much a B level takeover lineup.
I think Dodi's just trying to have a sense of
purpose to the NXT TV shows a blowoffs and you know,
or culmination is probably better way to put it, and
also just to give people value for their for their
network subscription, you know, which is fine. I mean, I
but shifting to the actual match, I I really didn't

(03:38):
know going in who would win the the five person
elimination gauntlet. I think that that I didn't think there
was anybody real obvious because Finn Balory even has been
sort of you know, he can face a face or
a heel, you know what I mean. It's like it's
what I couldn't rule out a baby face or a
heel winning because Balor's been sort of contextual in how

(04:01):
he's been portrayed, and I like that. I thought the
match last onnes Day was really dramatic, really well done,
just sort of quintessential NXT. You know, five really good
workers having a really good match and then O'Reilly wins.
And I thought it was a cool choice because I've
been people listen to me, I've been like a huge
Kyler Riley fan forever. I just he's one of my

(04:22):
favorite workers to watch in the ring, and I get
a kick out of his personality as sort of a
sidekicked Adam Cole. But this was a moment for him
I thought worth addressing. He's headlining a live wit Me
Network special on Sunday in a singles match for a
world title that hasn't happened since he came to WWE
in anyway, and I like the style matchup with win Valor.

(04:43):
I think it has a chance to be a great match.
And it was also interesting that Grimes was yelling at
O'Reilly at the end of the match, saying you are nothing.
You're nothing like Adam. He's the man of the group. Now,
that just could be he'll improvised trash talking. Beth Phoenix
totally screwed up and said, oh, he's saying bad things

(05:04):
about Adam Cole, and I was like, no, no, he wasn't.
She misheard him. I don't know if I should read
into that or not. But then Adam Cole came out
and Bobby Fish came out and they're like, hey, congratulations,
and they were all smiles. Did you pick up any
sense of jealousy or tension or do you think this
is sort of a one off or O'Reilly and then
they just move on and Adam Cole's a singles babyface

(05:25):
leader or is this leading to something else between those
two in particular.

Speaker 2 (05:30):
I think it's leading to something between them. I mean,
we've seen O'Reilly come out and saves a baby face.
I don't even remember the circumstances, so I mean everything
points to Kyle turning babyface with Cole. I mean, he
did have the match with McAfee, but then he kind
of seemed like he went back into heal mode. So
I thought maybe the group itself was going to turn babyface.

(05:52):
But the more this has gone on, I don't think
that's the plan. I mean, the rest of them still
seem to kind of be doing their heelish things, and
so I do wonder if this is kind of the
split and you know, they're playing nice right now, but
ultimately Cole's not going to be pleased with O'Reilly being
in this position. I just I mean, I'm all for
the match. I'm also a big fan of O'Reilly's work.

(06:13):
I just feel like this is so rushed there. I
mean that that five way match they had the Gauntlin Eliminator.
Please give me some storyline logic for any of those
people being in that match.

Speaker 1 (06:24):
Was there anyone missing that you think belonged or who?

Speaker 2 (06:28):
I mean, you know, the usual suspects them.

Speaker 1 (06:30):
As Champa, Damian Priest.

Speaker 2 (06:33):
Johnny Gargano. Yeah, I mean, and hey, they've all had
their chances. I think it just needed to be framed differently.
Just tell us that. I mean, I seriously would have
just said come out, and we decided to we're doing
the luck of the draw. Yeah, it's randomly selected five
names and these are the people who ended up in
this match. It would have been better than just, hey,
here's the five contenders for this and no explanation as

(06:56):
to why these people that in some cases failed to
win American Championship. We're given this opportunity. And then O'Reilly
who has been a tag team wrestler, and I mean
as when he does work singles, he loses more often
than not. So I'm all for Kyler Urry. I just
think they could have done a much better job of storytelling.
And I'm really it's there usually the promotion that just

(07:17):
makes those sense.

Speaker 1 (07:18):
No, that's a good point. And there's no question this
takeover feels like wow. I mean, I know sometimes when
there's an event in the following month, I just think, oh,
it's a long ways away when I'm in the middle
of the previous month, and then suddenly it's next Sunday,
you know, like because everything comes out of so fast now,
you know, in terms in our jobs and in life,
and and so it's like, oh, wow, Clash is over,
and oh that October Takeover is next Sunday, And it

(07:42):
felt like it needed some extra time to come into formation.
And they'll have to fill out the undercard on tomorrow
night show. So we've got Iosheri against Cantisal. Ray Candis
earns the women's title shot in a battle Royal to
have a verbal exchange backstage, and then Damian Priest runs
in and knocks out Johnny Gargando when things got intense.

(08:05):
So they're gonna have a mixed tag match tomorrow night.
So that helps build up. Did two other supporting matches
on this show? What else are they going to do
to fill out this show?

Speaker 2 (08:16):
Jason, Well, let me ask you, what did Johnny do
to earn that North American Championship match?

Speaker 1 (08:22):
Mouth off to Io Sharai obnoxiously.

Speaker 2 (08:25):
Yeah, and then give the Battle Royal that filled. I mean,
so this this show is just thrown together. This is
not n XT style. It just isn't. They do have
Kushita announced as facing velveteen Dream. I thought there was the.

Speaker 1 (08:41):
Dream interfered in the elimination match, so they at least
had they set that up. There's been a rivalry there
and they had an angle where Kushido would want to revenge.

Speaker 2 (08:48):
Yep, And I did you know it was as far
as looking at those five who were in the Gartland eliminator,
I thought it would be a Riley or Kushita because
they just haven't really that. Koushita wins more than he loses,
but he never gets meaningful wins. I don't really put
him in anything. So I thought it might have been
his time to get that title shot, but instead he's
facing velveteen the rest of it. I mean, gosh, I

(09:10):
would think they'd want to get Bronson Reid on this
show somehow, but I don't really have Maybe it'll be
something that develops on this episode. Beyond that, I mean,
Timothy Thatcher can lose again. I don't know why they
keep having him lose as often as they do. Yeah,
it's I guess you could do something with the NXT
tag titles, but it's just that division is just so

(09:32):
depleted right now. Yeah, I wouldn't feel any sense of
urgency to scramble to get a tag title match on
that show, So I get but I would. I'm guessing
we get Santos Escobar defending the Cruiserweight title against Swerve Scott.

Speaker 1 (09:45):
Yeah, and that's been He's been a good champion. Uh,
Swerve's getting getting more more attention and more development than
I think he's had so far in NXT, and I'm
fine with that being on the show. I would care
about that in your I mean, it could just be
a TA title match and a Cruiserweight title match, and
that you know, they takeover shows aren't deep. They don't
usually run super long, and I certainly doubt this one.
Well probably you know, clock in around two twenty would

(10:06):
be my guess. But it's a really good main event
and Baler and O'Reilly and I'm looking forward to that.
Any chance, just going back to that for a second,
Jason of a title change, like, I mean, I don't
expect it, but you know, Finn Balor's been I think
is a credible legacy star who I have no problem

(10:27):
holding the title for a very long time and having
a bunch of other people scramble around. Is that exciting
enough to generate interest? Is Finn Balor a big enough name?
And is NXT sending you signals knowing how they work
that yeah, we're we're building up Finn Balor is one
of the reasons you should tune into the show? Or
does this feel sort of half hearted? We gave it
to a legend, we had an injury, our plans are

(10:48):
throwing off, We're not we're doing yet, And because of that,
there's actually you could talk yourself into thinking O'Reilly wins.
And then that's where we find out that maybe Adam
Cole isn't okay with o'riios suddenly being the alpha of
the group.

Speaker 2 (11:03):
Possible. I mean, I do lean toward Balor retaining, but
I like that storyline. I think it would be pretty fun,
But I mean it would just again feel so rushed
to go from Kylo Riiley tag wrestler into Kylo Riley
NXT champion and now Adam Coles ticked off, And I mean,
I can't say they're not doing it, but I think

(11:23):
once carry On Cross got hurt, the transition to Balor
seemed like the right move. And I mean he's versatile.
You mentioned heel baby face doesn't seem to matter who
he works with, and I think that's part of the
reason they put him in that position, along with the
star power. I mean, they are on a Wednesday night
ratings battle and he is a guy that I think
does have star power, even though they didn't use him

(11:45):
properly on the main roster. And I do you know,
there's I don't know how much to lean into this,
but Cross and Balor have similar stories when it comes
to winning world championships and then having to forfeit due
to suffering an injury in the match, and wish they
won those titles, you know, their respective titles. So I
do wonder if long term, if they'll kind of they
want to get back to telling a story with that somehow.

Speaker 1 (12:09):
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Is there anything nxt could have done to compete better
with a W or to just get an overall better

(12:53):
grade from you? Like, what's the thing that jumps out
the most with nxt? That is the ingredient they're missing
to things to the next level. And that's that's not
even a value judge. I'm not judging whether they've had
a good or bad year. I'm just saying they're behind
in the ratings. They're not generating a ton of buzz.
I don't think so. I guess there's some value judgment

(13:14):
in that. But it's still a good show, a good promotion,
And so like, what's the missing ingredient that would at
least move them up from wherever you think they are
to that next level.

Speaker 2 (13:24):
That's the hard thing is just pinpointing what that is.
Because it's a good logically based promotion. I mean it's
I think it's easy to say a better venue, better
atmosphere would help, but I don't think it's you know,
the the b all here. I just think that AEW
is doing things right in their own way and playing

(13:46):
to a younger audience that does want their own wrestling promotion,
which oddly, you know, I think would have been NXT
if there was no such thing as AEW. I think
you would have seen you Who knows if they ever
would have moved to USA Network had it not been
for ADW. But if they had, I think a lot
of those the people watching AW now would have been
big NXT fans. So it's not so much that they're

(14:06):
doing things wrong. I mean, this show does feel rushed,
that this is unconventional for them. I do worry a
little bit because we did have that creative shakeup there,
and you know, it may just be a sign of well,
they'd a takeover sooner than they expected. I'm not sure,
or it could be well get used to this, but
I don't think so, because as much as they're going
to misbelieve with Joe Bill Kaster who left, things still

(14:29):
run through Paul Levec and Rode Dog and Shawn Michaels
and and so it's not like he was doing everything.
I never got that sense. So it's not that I
can sit here in point to hey, they're screwing up
here and here like Ron SmackDown, you often can with NXT.
It's a logically based promotion. And maybe they could take

(14:50):
a few more chances. And I'm not saying O'Reilly as champion?
Is that right chance to take necessarily, but just something
to kind of, I guess, a little bit to shake
things up, but just something to feel fresh and different,
rather than just maybe so logically booked. As awkward as

(15:10):
that sounds to criticize good logical booking, I do wonder
if it is just well, you know, if you give
people kind of the logic, the basic logic, they can
figure it out all the time, and there's just nothing
that feels truly exciting and unique.

Speaker 1 (15:25):
Yeah, you summarized my thoughts too, Because I don't have
a clear cut answer. I think the number one thing
for them would be to be in a takeover style
arenas with crowds, And because NXT is a place where
you create stars and it's hard to they don't inherit
establish stars generally speaking, I mean, yes, for indie fans,

(15:47):
roh fans, they have stars. For fans, that's Japanese wrestling.
The people come in or TNA going back to Robert
rud or Nakamura or Kyler Raley for that matter, Adam Cole,
those are stars. But on a national ratings difference making level.
You know, Finnbal showing up is NXT inheriting a star.
They don't get that much. And so to me, to
create a new star, to create the perception of having

(16:08):
the red hot thing, you need to have what happened
in AW with Adam Cole, I excuse me with Adam
Page and almost said Adam Pierce, and then I just
switched Adam Cole. I'm like, I'm just getting this all wrong.
With Hangman Page, I should have just done that. Hangman
Page got those big star reactions. Cody got the big
star reactions, Orange Cassidy got the big star reactions. Chris
Jericho already a star, but he got big star reactions.

(16:31):
That's what made AW seem like the hotter product. Besides
the fact that it was it, it validated it. With NXT,
they don't get that validating scene except the takeover specials
and takeover specials. The atmosphere is awesome. I mean when
NXT was on w network one hour shows, but you'd

(16:51):
get a takeover special on a Wrestumatia weekend or or
separated from it, split off from it. You're like, this
is this is crazy. The vibe here is front these fans.
There's so much more into it than WWE rres smacked
down typically. And if NHD had that every week at arenas,
even a medium size arena, that would that would make

(17:12):
a big difference, you know, because aw has that when
they're in the medium to large sports arenas, So to me,
that's kind of one of the biggest things. But also,
and you know, they've dabbled in comedy with the Robbie
what's his name, Robert Stone, Robert Stone, thank you, Yes,
with Robert Stone. They've dabbled in some comedy stuff. But

(17:32):
what they haven't done and it's hard to do it
when you're the third brand and you're a developmental territory.
Still you're branded as such and in a way you are,
as we see with Keith Lee and eventually Damian Priest
and on and on Dominic Djakovic for that matter, it's
hard to then sell the public beyond your kind of
core base of eight hundred thousand and two million people,
that this is the company that you need to watch

(17:54):
because because it's a star driven industry, and so that's
a challenge. I think they just continue to face and
I almost feel like there's, as you know, that they
just want to run, like you said, a nicely run
company with good workers, not a lot of giants. But
they can incorporate a Keith Lee or a Damian priest
in who are larger than some of the others, and

(18:15):
they just tell good stories and have good matches. And
you know, there's some quick quals with some of the
booking choices I make here and there, but overall it's
a reliable product without a lot of ups and downs.
Compared to say, aw where I think it it veers
more wildly from excellent to what was that? And there's
to me, it almost feels like there's a bit of
a resignation that this is what we're going to be

(18:36):
and it you know, the question is is that at
a level that that USA network likes enough to pay
them to keep the show, or do they even shop
it around to a non NBC Universal channel at some point.

Speaker 2 (18:47):
Well, and for that matter, it is Vin's going to
get serious about this, because it sure seems like he's
content losing this viewership battle. Early on, they were sending
some talent down to try to spike numbers and it works.

Speaker 1 (19:00):
And we'll see November two. I'll throw that out there
because Survivor series we might see that. That's when they
got their spike last year.

Speaker 2 (19:05):
Sure, yeah, I mean, maybe we'll get it again, but
we just haven't seen anything since then, and I just
want I mean, I think Vince is very content with
this being a promotion that just stunts Aw's growth, and
that has to be really disheartening if you work on
the NXT crew, not necessarily as a wrestler, but behind
the scenes, especially you know wrestler, you're probably aiming in

(19:27):
most cases to get to the main roster, but for
Triplation his crew, it has to be a little frustrating
that you want to compete and you have a lot
of the tools, but it's not like WWE the main brand,
or Vince McMahon is really doing everything in his power
to make this a competition, right down to the fact
that they're still excuse me, at Full Sale University rather

(19:52):
than being in Thunderdom. That's kind of a strange call,
especially you think for a Takeover special they could at
least move over there for the night or something. But
they're not doing any of that. It's just here, we
are at full sale and there's still spectator wrestlers, and
I mean WWE as a whole at this point, I
don't know why they're not trying to get out of
those venues and play to you know, in an amphitheater

(20:12):
type setting, or just in a minor league ballpark or
something now that you can have some fans present. I mean, heck,
they're having thirteen thousand fans. I'm not condoning it, but
they're having thirteen thousand fans at the Vikings game on
Sunday in Houston at a stadium. So I mean, you
could easily have a decent number of fans in attendance

(20:33):
like AW is doing, probably even more because they're in
Florida if you choose to. But it just doesn't seem
like they're budging.

Speaker 3 (20:41):
Need an extra dose of positivity in your wrestling podcasts,
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(21:02):
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Speaker 1 (21:42):
See you in the Paradise. All right, let's pause and
introduce ourselves. We've got a lot more to talk about here.
This is the Wade Keller Progrestling Podcast, a Tuesday Flightship edition.
On September twenty ninth, two I'm Lead Keller, hosts of
the program, founder and editor of the Pro Wrestling Torch

(22:04):
weekly newsletter, editor of PW Torch dot com, host of
the Way Keller post shows and podcasts, and also the
Weight Keller hotlines and post pay per view shows and
more on the VIP side of things. I'm joined by
Jason Powell from Pro Wrestling dot Net. He joins me
every three weeks here on the flagship. Jason, Welcome back.
Great to be here, Great to have you. Also he
as the host of the Pro Wrestling Boom podcast. We'll

(22:25):
talk about that momentarily. Let's actually so we don't forget though,
mention Twitter accounts here. You can follow our brand at
PW Torch. You can follow my personal Twitter account at
the Wade Keller Jason.

Speaker 2 (22:37):
How about you at Pro Wrestling Net. Leave the dot
out of that one at pro Wrestling Net.

Speaker 1 (22:43):
Sounds good? All right, Let's pivot to the announcement that
there's a draft coming up with WWE. We had early activity,
as Tom Phillips oddly called it, with Mandy Rose and
Dana Brook. You know it comes every year, I hope,
and you know, I know you feel this way. You
know when you're in fantasy football, there has to be

(23:04):
structure for it to work. If there's not structure and
it's arbitrary, you don't really take pride in winning and
you don't take seriously competing to win if things just
look like they're being made up as you go. And
that's the case with this draft. You know, I tried
to make sense of last year's draft by lining up
you know, player movements, so to speak, and go, well,
this could have been the trade. This could have been
the trade and it worked out pretty well. But they

(23:26):
didn't say that, and they could have. They could have said, yeah,
these two were traded for these three, this one is
traded for that one. I don't know if they do
it because they they don't do it because they want
to avoid hurt feelings, or they just think it doesn't matter,
or they think it matters, but Vince doesn't want to
put the time and discipline in to do it. I
don't know why. But this could be such a fun
time a year, and I think people are sort of like, well, okay,

(23:49):
we'll get fresh matches, but the excitement isn't there because
you don't have that drama that they tried at one
point to build in with Shane versus Stephanie brand rivalry
and that kind of thing there, or Fox versus USA
Network last year was the big thing. I just this
is so much more potential, and instead it just you
end up kind of looking and going, well, they didn't

(24:11):
take this all that seriously. But at least starting next week,
I have fresh matchups, And like I said, that's good,
We'll have fresh matchups. They need it, but it could
be a much more exciting time in these two weeks
leading up to it.

Speaker 2 (24:22):
It should be, and it's you know, everything he just said.
Viacebmakman's not a sports fan. He doesn't. He's never wrapped
his mind around what people are looking for from a
concept like this, and it's unfortunate. It should be a
big deal this time. It's like, yeah, they need fresh matchups,
especially on this Smackman or I'm sorry, on the raw side,
or they just keep giving us the same things over

(24:42):
and over again on television, but they don't have faith
in that. It's not like they don't have the roster
right now to go with different matchups they choose to,
and so what are they going to just all right,
we have new talent to work with. Let's just run
the same fuge in the same new fuge into the ground.
It's I mean, yes, you can move some people over,

(25:05):
line up different challengers for McIntyre and Rains, but it's
not like I'm just sitting there pining this time, going, man,
they need to get someone so over to this brand.
I think we've had too many of these drafts now
where it used to be you'd get excited, say, Andrade's
been this guy. Man, I can't wait till he gets
he gets moved to the brand because they're not doing
anything with him, and then he moves and the other

(25:25):
brand doesn't do anything with me either. It's they've they've
kind of created this sense of no hope where it's
like you don't even care, Like if a wrestler that
they haven't done a great job with creatively gets moved,
you don't have any reason to think it's going to
get better when they switch to a different brand.

Speaker 1 (25:40):
No, And that's why it is all about. It's just
about fresh matchups. I mean, that's what's needed, and that's
what's going to come out of this. I do not
believe or anticipate that it's going to lead to wrestlers
who have been overlooked suddenly not being overlooked, because it's
not separate. Writing to you, Tames, it's not. There's just

(26:02):
nothing structurally built in that would make us think that
a wrestler who's being overlooked, well, I mean not that
it won't happen, because it could happen. It's just you
shouldn't get your hopes up, and it's not baked into
the system as something that is necessarily or even light
that's likely or necessarily going to happen. With the majority
of people who move around. That said, there's some people
who could use a fresh set of circumstances, and one

(26:22):
of them at the top of my list is Bronze Stroman.
And I think that his appearance on Raw Underground, And
by the way, is shame mc man going to be
on milk Cartons? What happened to rawondergrad.

Speaker 2 (26:32):
Jason, Yeah, that's a good question. I think we all
have our suspicions.

Speaker 1 (26:38):
What's your suspicion?

Speaker 2 (26:40):
A certain thing that they don't like to mention.

Speaker 1 (26:43):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It felt like Roderground might have
been a petri dish for that, A little bit of
a peatrid. Hey, let's all cluster in a room and
yell at each other side by side.

Speaker 2 (26:55):
Yeah, that'll be great.

Speaker 1 (26:56):
Yeah. So Bronz Stroman moving to Raw, perhaps being a
heel opponent for Drew McIntyre, if Drew stays on, Rawn
remains champion, Perhaps being a baby face opponent for Randy Orton,
if Randy Orton was telling a cell and Broad as
a baby face. I mean, I don't know. I mean
it's to me that's wide open. He's somebody could use
a new situation. Matt Riddle also seems a little bit

(27:19):
lost right now. She's Last Friday losing to Baron Corbyn.
W has this weird thing of jobbing people out before
they move them to another brand, as if it's the
old territory days where you know your fan base wouldn't
see them anymore. You know, when John Studd was leaving
the a W A Baron von Rashkey beat him in
a loser Least Town match and Big John Studd cried
after the match, walked right past me bawling, and I

(27:41):
was like, Wrestling's real. It's got to be real because
those are real emotions. I remember that as a kid,
thinking that because right up clos there's John Studd bawling
because he lost to Baron and had to leave.

Speaker 2 (27:48):
Well, what you feel bad for him at that age?

Speaker 1 (27:54):
No, it was hard to feel bad. John so was
such an effective heel. I didn't feel bad for him.
I was pretty pretty elated actually.

Speaker 4 (28:01):
So.

Speaker 1 (28:02):
But you know that's what you do when wrestle left
the territory. But it wasn't like then John stud showed
up on a different version of the A W A Show,
you know, like he was gone. It's just to me,
it's ridiculous. But that said, as ridiculous as it is,
that loss does make me think they're moving him too
Raw and Baron Corpen staying on SmackDown, and they wanted
Baron Corpen to be strong on SmackDown and the same

(28:22):
set of writers on Raw. Now inherit somebody who who
is damaged but could could use some rebuilding and med
rental against w B Champrand Orton would be good. You know,
if they go that route and have Drew lose the
belt and I have no idea really, I mean you
have a sense of or a leaning towards where they're
going with Orton and Drew. If they have the hell
in a cell match for the title. Do you think

(28:43):
they give Orton the title and move, say Drew to
SmackDown already to be an opponent for Rains, or you know,
kind of be on a parallel track, or do you
think they're committed to keeping Drew and Rains on separate
brands as long term champions, because that really does affect
who I think moves to which brand.

Speaker 2 (28:58):
I've given up and trying to put my in the
mind of Vince McMahon, but I will say, if it
were me, I keep them separate. I think that they
are the stars of those respective brands. I want them
on a long term collision course tape eventually meet at WrestleMania,
and it's too soon to put them together and make
that feel special. So I would keep Drew. I mean,
you can have Randy when the title, but I wouldn't

(29:21):
have it be a case of Drew is then moving
to SmackDown to go after Roman right away. It's just you're, yes,
you can pop some numbers with that, but I think
it's a it would It would be foolish because it's
just not going to mean as much now as it could, say,
a year and a half from now at WrestleMania.

Speaker 1 (29:39):
And no, I agree. Thanks for downloading today's show. Take
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(30:00):
hear the VIP exclusive shows that I host with Rich
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dot com slash go VIP. I'm an advocate and I

(30:23):
talked about it last night. Wait a year and a half,
have them both be champions at whole time and suddenly,
not suddenly, that's the wrong word. Deliberately and patiently. You
have created a true WrestleMania dream match. If you make
Drew look really strong and dominant as a babyface champ.
I hope by then we have live crowds. I hope
by twenty twenty two we have vaccine and enough people

(30:44):
have taken it and there's a lack of misinformation or
facts went out over over conspiracy theories, and people take
the vaccine and we move forward and get healthy and
as a society again, or as healthy as we can be.
It's going to take some work. And if that's the case, hey,
Drew and Roman crossing paths would seem like a really
big deal and it'd be really cool. I mean, you

(31:04):
know what that was like in the in the eighties
with Rick Flair and Hulkokein you know, I mean they
the idea of the I'm wrestling each other was so insane.
I flew to Oakland, California to see their first advertised
one on one match. Just seeing those two in the
ring was so like mind blowing. And you know, the
promotions trying to compete with b F and Jim Crockett promotions.
They would, you know, like Memphis and Dallas and the

(31:26):
a WA. They know, oh we're gonna have super Clash
year Lawler against Carry von Eric. They'd try to recreate
the idea of whoever thought we'd have this dream matchup.
Do to By just doesn't get much of that anymore,
and it's weird, but AEW could end up being a
feeder system for future WWF dream matches or vice versa. Yeah,
and because that, you really will have wrestlers like Dean Ambrose,

(31:47):
Chris Jericho, Kenney Omega, Cody Orange, Cassidy, whomever, you know,
completely in a separate universe for years at a time
before they end up crossing paths with somebody else who
has been featured and protected on on B or NXT.
You know Adam Cole, for instance. You know, if he
ever jumps to a w that will feel like a
huge deal because Cole was such a long term champion

(32:08):
in NXT. If he steps into the ring against Moxley
or Kenny or whomever. And so do to B just
has to create that themselves, you know, and they've been
terrible about it. They had that was seen in Batista
once and then on like zero notice they just gave
away the match against w b F versus World Champ
or w B excuse me versus World Champ, and it
was like, are you kidding me? You know, you've you

(32:28):
had the discipline for a long time to keep these
two apart. Now you just hotshot them. So I don't
have faith in vincik Man's patience to do it. But
that's my choice too. I don't think Randy is champion.
I can't make a case for why that makes sense.
It's not awful, but it just makes more sense to
have Drew keep that title and keep feeding a heel
opponents to him, especially since Rains is the heel champ
on Smackduns. You just feed baby face opponents to.

Speaker 2 (32:50):
Him, right, Yeah, I would assume we're going to get
some fresh challengers moved over from smacked in. I just
don't really know who they are that are going to
beat difference makers. That's kind of the issue, is you know,
you mentioned maybe they keep King Korman where he is.
I just wish somebody could draft the King gimmick just
to throw it away. Yes, oh my god, and this already,

(33:10):
but I mean, what are you gonna shamush aj can
move around again? Oh god? I mean that's just like,
what is there to really look forward to?

Speaker 1 (33:20):
I know, I know, well, And that's what is disappointing
about finswook Man's longster planning, is I don't I mean
there's things where I think he looks ahead, but it's
so few where I think he's really doing something and
planning ahead. And then I also think he just ends
up looking at the lay of the land, going oh crap.
This is supposed to be where I reshuffle things and

(33:42):
end up with a world of fresh matchups, and there's
not a lot there. Drew doesn't need five great opponents,
you know, he needs, you know, two to carry in
between now WrestleMania. But who are those two?

Speaker 2 (33:53):
You know?

Speaker 1 (33:53):
They could turn Keith Lee heel after the orn FEU's
over and have Keith Lee against Drew because Drew cotin
some matches and Lee overreacts. They can try to build
up Alister Black at the expense of Kevin Owens and
maybe one other semi top babyface and then try to
get Alistair Black there. But I think they've defined him
down enough where that's that's going to be a difficult feat.

(34:16):
I don't know. In terms of call ups, you know,
I think Domini da Jakovic is damaged from retribution already,
Damian Priest Ken and probably will be called up, but
I don't know how quickly. So you know, you can
look outside of of SmackDown. But when you look at SmackDown,
I mean, I don't think the Fiend. I guess they
could do the Fiend as a heel against Drew. Otherwise, Yeah, you're.

Speaker 2 (34:39):
Looking at the shape out of everyone.

Speaker 1 (34:42):
Yes, it's crazy. Yeah, and then you got Seamus King
Corbin or Shinske or Cizarro or a heel big ee.
I mean, like you really have to scrape unlikely scenarios
to come up with, you know, a solid two or
three heel opponents for Drew, unless again they pull from

(35:03):
NXT or turn somebody. And even then it's not super compelling.
So it's it's unfortunate and tough. I mean, I think
there's options there, but it's not plentiful. And I think
they have to they have a small margin for air
in terms of who they do try to elevate against
Drew Becau. Drew needs good opponents, you know, he needs
to strengthen his title reign. He needs to have decisive wins.
And Orton has been a good one, you know that,

(35:25):
And who follows Orton is going to be a challenge.

Speaker 2 (35:28):
I do think Braun will be one of them. I
think that makes sense. He's there's just nothing left for
him to do. He's ice cold as a baby face.
He needs to turn heels. There's no reason to do
that on SmackDown, So he would be one that I
think they'll move over. I do worry that they're going
to rush into Range and McIntyre at the next WrestleMania

(35:49):
because I don't know what else you go with. I mean,
as much as I'm sure they'd love to get Dwayn
Johnson back, I don't know that Dwayn Johnson wants to
come work in a super spreader environment. Even if like
State of Florida, who says they're going to have a
full stadium for the Super Bowl, where to sign off
on doing the same thing at Raymond James for WrestleMania.
I don't know that Dwayne Johnson's gonna want the bad

(36:09):
publicity if we don't have a vaccine by then of
saying yeah, come to come to Raymond James to watch
me wrestle and catch COVID while you're at it. So
I just think he's too sady to want to do that.
So if you can't get Rock and Roman for this year,
what is it that you're going to do at WrestleMania
that's going to excite people.

Speaker 1 (36:26):
I guess brock Lessner is a baby face against Roman
rains as a heel. Sure, you know, I mean I
can open the checkbook and do that. Does you know
Lesnard just wants money. He doesn't care about whether it's
a crowd or not. Like rock doesn't want to be
at a super spreader event. I also don't think he
wants to be at a spread out fan event where
you know, there's you know, one seat out of every
twelve seats filled in a stadium. So you know, I

(36:48):
think Rockets would be like, well, I'm going to do this,
you know. And then by the way, he needs to
hit the gym. You see his video endorsing Biden and
Kamala Harris, it was like, my god, Like it's just
it looks like an act shouldn't like an action figure
blown up into a human. It's just he is not
missing any gym time. But but yeah, I think you know,

(37:10):
you wait till you can have a crowd and make
it magical when you do that, So I know, I
mean that's but this is why we watch, you know,
And I just I hope Vince has has some things planned,
you know, raw this week was sort of catch your breath,
relaxed a little bit, let's not do anything crazy. Last
Monday was a debacle. And and so you know, there's
ups and downs with Vince, and there are weeks where

(37:31):
you just go, he just needs to step aside. There's
so much potential here and he's ruining it. But there
are other weeks where there's a rebound and you're like, God,
you know, I'm into this. I like what I like
what I'm seeing, and heck, now I look back and
I kind of see why he did something three weeks
ago that I wasn't quite sure why he did. And
so you know, I'm on board for this, so you know, maybe.

Speaker 2 (37:49):
And that way was smacked down. I'm a little more
optimistic right now, having been watching that show on on
a weekly basis. It was pretty dreadful there for a while,
and it's rare that you see a show actually developed
more than two weeks of momentum, but it has. It's
actually been a pretty good show. And Raw, on the
other hand, is the one where you're really seeing that
you know, Vince had his up and down worst where

(38:12):
you might get that one week where it's decent, you
get a little glimmer of hope and then you just
get a debacle like last week.

Speaker 1 (38:17):
Oh I know, and it's you know, it is so
up and down. Nick Barbadi, who does SmackDown hits and
missus for us just you know, super high and last
Friday show and super excited to be to be covering
it for pw torch dot com and and you know,
there and there are there's people who and I'm among them,
who I watched Mackdown and there's weeks where it's like, Okay,
this is kind of uninspired. But when it hits it,

(38:39):
it hits well. And there's things that not everybody likes
about SmackDown that I like, and they're you know that
I that I tolerate or even like a little bit too,
and that adds to it. It's it's weird, like do
you think do get a sense of if Vince is
playing favorites, because part of the draft is does Vince
feel like he has more of an obligation to serve

(39:00):
Fox on Friday versus USA Network on Mondays Monday Night.
Raw is sort of his firstborn, you know, kind of
like Stephanie, and so he favors he favors Raw wait
a second, change like doing the math, and so, I mean,
do you have a sense of it. Does it seem
like he's played pretty even? Like if you're a USA
exec or Fox's exec, should either of them feel short

(39:22):
changed in terms of the effort they've gotten from him
in terms of talent and booking.

Speaker 2 (39:26):
I think it's been fairly even because they did initially
it looked like your typical events where they he intends
to load up the Friday Night brand and he really didn't,
you know, like Raw looked like the better roster. I
believe coming out of the draft it just Smacked Down
had a little more star power, but that was balanced
out quickly when they moved brock Lesner right back over

(39:48):
to the Raw side of things. We all thought Becky
Lynch was gonna end up on SmackDown because she was
featured in all the ads. That didn't happen. So I
think it actually was pretty even, and I'm guessing it
will be again. I just you know, it was kind
of clever the way they did it last year. I'm
not looking forward to a bunch of people pretending to
be network executives staring at computers in a room again.

(40:09):
They need to come up with something better than ho
Fox and USA Network are drafting their own brand, their
own wrestler. It's just stupid.

Speaker 1 (40:17):
Yes, yeah, Hi Jason plug time tell people how they
can hear more from you and read more from you
and support what you do on a ongoing basis.

Speaker 2 (40:25):
Check out Pro Wrestling dot Net if you need a
news fix, if you want to have live coverage of
a major television show or pay per view event, and
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you can get the ad free version of Pro Wrestling
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Membership dot Net is the place to go. For that.
You get ad free access to the website and hours

(40:46):
of audio content every week, all the major television shows
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(41:08):
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you just for whatever reason, don't want to sign up
for the membership, but you're still looking for some audio
from dot net, very simple, check out Pro Wrestling Boom.
Just do a search on Apple Podcasts or wherever you
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Oftentimes I will have a guest on from the wrestling world.

(41:30):
Recently I've had Kenny King, Rich Boukiney. I'm trying to
think there's been a lot of people here, and I
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list at dot net. Over the years, I've had Jim Ross,
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within the wrestling world. It's an interview style show and
we have had some really good conversations on there. Joe Koff,

(41:51):
the head of Ring of Honor, has been on a
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(42:14):
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(42:34):
dot com.

Speaker 1 (42:41):
All right, a few ways ago, let's take a break
from w B just briefly and talk about Impact. The
Access TV announced Impact Week coming up, so they're a
little bit in the news this week more than usual.
I am curious. They hit two hundred thousand viewers last Tuesday,
which is one of the highest they've had on Access TV.
Also were as low as one hundred thousand, just barely

(43:01):
over one hundred thousand a couple weeks earlier, up against
nxt T Super Tuesday. This week tonight they're up against
Biden Trump, which is just you know, it's going to
be maybe the most watched presidential debate ever, and I'm
I'm assuming they take a big hit. But if you're
looking for a reprieve from politics, if you made up
your mind. You don't want to, you know, even pay attention.

(43:24):
You know, the Impact Wrestling will have those people to
themselves to a degree. So yeah, your your thoughts on
on Impact now that we're a few weeks past Islammiversary
and the influx of new talent, and and how you
judge and evaluate how they're utilizing Eric Yong, how they're
doing a slow build with EC three, Anderson and Gallows

(43:45):
for instance, came out, you know, swinging as a hot
new acquisition. How how have they capitalized on that group.

Speaker 2 (43:52):
I think they've done pretty well. Heath would be the
guy that I've been really disappointed by. It's just, hey,
let's recreate his WWE storyline an Impact. I can't believe
they did that. But he also had a pretty funny
video last week, so there was that. But I think
Eric Young, if you're not watching Impact, you're like, oh
my god, Eric Young's they're champion. He's done a great job.

(44:13):
He is reinvented himself as a heel and he's doing
fine work. If you're watching the show, I think he
works in that role, and they've done a good job
of setting up their Pound for Glory main event with
him and Rick Swan with a young being responsible for
the career ending injury that we knew wasn't really career

(44:34):
ending injury and it's not of Swan, so Swan will
be back for that. The Good Brothers are kind of there,
but I think they're kind of moving them into the
title picture now. They've taken care of them. It's not
like they're losing, but they just haven't really been involved
in very many meaningful things. Easy three, it's like he's
there in video form, but he doesn't wrestle. I don't
think he wants to sign a long term contract with

(44:55):
anybody and for whatever reason, and there was even some
thought people within the business like is he going to
be revealed as one of the Retribution members? Is that way?
He's not signing long term with anybody, And I don't
think that's it. But I think that's why we're seeing
so little of him as far as you know, we
haven't really seen him do anything in the ring as
far as have an actual match yet. I assume he

(45:16):
and Moose will at Bound for Glory, So it's been
kind of tough to really for them to do a
ton with EC three because he's just sending in videos
it appears and then I'm trying to like the machine
guns They've done a really nice job with. Yeah, it's
and the show is back to feeling logical, and it's
rare that I can say that because they always seem

(45:37):
to have some pet project like Wressell House or the
Undead Realm. I mean, they are building to a demon wedding,
so we make it. We make it. Some silliness there,
but you know, for the most part, it's just been
a good logical show and I do enjoy impact more
often than not. They have too many women's tag teams

(45:58):
and no women's tag titles, but I think they're going
to address that eventually and introduce women's tag titles. But
you know, good deep knockouts division and the show with
the influx of talent it it definitely is. It's really
helped because for a while there you just looked at
the heavyweight title picture and it's like, ooh, this is
pretty this is pretty rough, And now you know, you

(46:19):
can they filled out their roster nicely and it's a
pretty good show from week to week.

Speaker 1 (46:24):
Yeah, and I think that two hundre thousand viewership number
last week is encouraging. I mean they've been I got
one fifty to one seventy. I'm not looking at my charts,
so I might be remembering slightly wrong, but you know,
typically so that's good. I think that would be that
would booy them in terms of their enthusiasm. They're doing
something right. I think you have to scratch off this
week with the debate, even though they've got Anderson and

(46:45):
Gallows headlining, you know it's not I mean they're there
are a lot of people like them, and if they
hear their wrestling, you know that that can help, you know,
last week's audience to it in this week. But you know,
there's only so much you can do. But how about
count opposite of that, or not opposite but alongside that
ro Oh with their return to First Run Wrestling with
a pure tournament, doing personality profiles at the beginning to

(47:08):
set up the matches and then having you know, we
talk about structure and logic that you know, are there
are oh Is striving to achieve that. I think they're
achieving that. Jason, what have you thought of how all
in they have gone on this and the prudence of well,
if we can't have a live crowd reacting to high
spots and interference and in craziness, let's let's have wrestle.

(47:33):
Let's bring back a style of wrestling and a structure
of matches that actually matches the fact that we are
stuck without a large crowd to feed energy into the
building and react.

Speaker 2 (47:44):
You know, they were going to bring back the Pure
title before the pandemic hit.

Speaker 1 (47:48):
But yeah, that's a that's actually a good point. This
wasn't in reaction because of that.

Speaker 2 (47:52):
But it certainly worked out nicely, you know. I mean,
there's other things they could have done, and so it's
still even though they were going to bring it back,
it may have been very much by design that, hey,
we don't have crowds. This is a perfect format, and
it is. You know, everybody out there claims they want
to be an alternative to WWE or now AW, so
few are right now. Ring of Honor is it's offering

(48:13):
something different. It's a straightforward wrestling tournament. Those MMA like
features where they sit down with the talent, most are
pretty good, and it's just you know, you're getting two
matches per week, and I look forward to that show
for the first time since probably Cody and the Bucks
and Company left it was a pretty rough year after

(48:33):
they ended up leaving, and now I find myself looking
forward to watching the show on Saturday mornings because they're
just doing a really good job with this tournament. My
only concern is I think they may have foreshadowed on
episode one too heavily by reminding us of the possibility
of Jonathan Gresham meeting Jayleathal and I have no idea
who ends up going to the finals, but it seemed

(48:55):
like they took a page out of the WWE playbook
by going overboard and foreshadowing that saying that's the tournament finals.
But hopefully it's a swerve. Hopefully they know what they're
doing and they didn't just give it away on episode one.
But yeah, if if anybody out there's not watching that show,
go back and start at the beginning of the tournament.
I think you'll be impressed. It's something different, and you know, hey,
if it's not for you, so be it, because this

(49:16):
kind of thing isn't going to be for everyone. But
I think that r WAIT is finally feeling like an
alternative again rather than just a bad wrestling product.

Speaker 1 (49:27):
How can people watch rowaits?

Speaker 2 (49:29):
Like?

Speaker 1 (49:29):
What are the various ways people can watch first run
shows or catch up.

Speaker 2 (49:33):
So yeah, so Fight TV on their free side of things,
I think you can catch every episode there. I don't
know how far it goes back. The show runs in
syndication on sin Clair Broadcast Group's affiliates and some of
the other there's some other affiliates in there too, so
as we're checking your local listings, and then if you
have like a regional Fox Sports network, they run I

(49:56):
believe midnight Central is when they run on all the
regional sports networks, unless you know, they may get bumped
in some West Coast markets for baseball or something like
that if there's a late night game, so it's there too.
And then I don't know what they do with YouTube,
but I think they've been running replays on Monday nights
on YouTube. But that might be the Fight TV that

(50:17):
I'm seeing that they're they just see their talent reacting
to something right before raw and so they're kind of
doing a watch along. It might be the Fight TV airing,
but it's worth checking their YouTube page to see if
it's on there. But certainly Fight TV and it's free
on there, so definitely we're checking that out on their app.

Speaker 1 (50:33):
Among those who are left in the tournament. What's an
alternative path to Gresham Lethal that intrigues you?

Speaker 2 (50:40):
Ooh gosh, now you're catching me a little off guard.

Speaker 1 (50:43):
With this, Like Matt Sidell, PJ Black? Yeah, who would
you like? Who seems like a worthwhile person who can
get a boost out of a victory here.

Speaker 2 (50:53):
I want to give them credit because it only took
me one click once I get to their site, aha racket,
and that is not common for a which he used
to be a pain in the asked to find anything
on their site, and so they've made this very easy.
So yeah, I mean, I don't like Jay Lethal's meeting
David Finlay in round two. I don't think Finlay is
going to advance. I think Lethal will and so. But

(51:16):
if it's not Lethal, I'm here looking at Tracy Williams.
They've given fred Y a high win. I don't think
he's gonna go too far in this. Josh Woods's head
to win. I guess Sidell would be the guy I'm
personally am h.

Speaker 1 (51:31):
He's losing on aw dark, isn't he? I mean that'd
be a tough that's just it have an alternate universe
going on, It's sort of like Eric Young, except at
the same time Eric jobbing on on WTV while becoming
Impact Champion. It's like it's separate universes at different times.
It'd be tough to to you know, if Roh is like,
let's go all in with Matt Sidell. You know, he's
he's a veteran, he's got a distinct personality. Let's make

(51:54):
him one of our top six guys we build around
in the heavy and you know from the main title
by having him win the peer title. I mean, I
mean you can make that argument, but not at the
same time that he's being to fined down by AW.

Speaker 2 (52:04):
True. Yeah, and I just you can. You just don't
know whim damn company. They knew he was going to
be working for AW when they filmed this tournament. I mean,
everything's already in the can, so it's possible they went there.
But I mean, I really do just looking at it again,
it looks like it's going to be Lethland Grasham.

Speaker 1 (52:20):
I don't that's a thing, Yeah, because if you don't
have Sidel as a as a as an exclusive locked in,
and it would be bad if sidel on the tournament
and then went to a w and for pay Day
started jobbing, I'd be from Rohuld be like, come on,
tip us off here. Uh so yeah, so I mean
but yeah two, I mean it's I think it'll be
a fun journey anyway, you know, as the tournament continues.

(52:41):
And yeah, so, anytime you're watching ww E Raw or
SmackDown or aw Dynamite in particular, send us an email
if you've got thoughts on the show or a topic
you want us to address or a question for us.
Wade Keller Podcast at pw torch dot com. Wadekeller Podcast
at petewtorch dot com. If there's anything else going on

(53:03):
in pro wrestling that you want us to address on
our main podcast during our mailbank segments, that same email
applies Wade Keller podcast at PW toorch dot com. We
invite that interaction. Let us know what you think of
what we're saying, and let us know what you want
us to talk about and ask us specific questions. Wade
Keller Podcast at PW torch dot com. Let's go ahead

(53:28):
and look at Class of Champions a little bit through
the lens. First of all, of what's going on with
Roman Arraigns and Paul Hayman, because that's the top story
in progrestling the last month, with all due respect to
the early results of g One Here and whatever's going
on elsewhere that you might make the case Roman Arrangs
is a big story and I'm just enjoying the hell

(53:48):
out of this and Sunday Night, the match with Jus
wasn't a classic match in the traditional sense of a
classic match, but they told a real story and there
was drama. I think Rains came out of it better
to find I think Jay came out of it, you know,
more of a star. I don't know if it's the
type of performance where I think, wow, you know, breakout star.

(54:09):
He can be, you know, like an Edge Christian, you know,
like an Edge moment or Jeff Hardy moment where someone
who's in a take team forever suddenly you think, wow,
they can be a centerpiece babyface. I don't think that
with Jay that. I don't know if other people are,
but I'm not. But still I thought it was some
of the he did a really good job in the
role that he was in, and just the family drama
and Jimmy coming out and what was said back and

(54:32):
forth and Paul Hayman's role. I just this is super compelling.
We talked earlier about you know, the excitement over SmackDown
right now, and it's you know, what's going on with
Rains and Hayman and that family is the dominant reason
your assessment of Sunday's match in particular, and then more
broadly the Rains Hayman push.

Speaker 2 (54:49):
Yeah, it was outstanding. I really like the storytelling there.
It was one of those where I was seeing some
grumbling from people about it being predictable, and it's like,
but it's OK, hey, because it's about the story. You know,
you can everyone's going to watch their own way, and
if you can't get over there, if you're looking for
unpredictability in a title match, I can kind of understand.

(55:10):
But I didn't. I knew what they were going for
and I looked forward to seeing it play out, So
the lack of predictability didn't bother me a bit. I
just think they did a great job. And the thing
that I'm looking forward to now, So you've established that
Roman's the head of the table, he's the tribal chief.

(55:30):
Do the USOS once Jimmy gets back, do they fall
in line? And join him because yeah, they fought, but
they're also family and you could you know, you just
because they had a match and Roman was dominant doesn't
mean they can't get back on the same page now
that the USOS recognized Romans as their leader.

Speaker 1 (55:48):
Yes, so where where do you think this goes? And
do you have any fear right now about what they
might do that would disappoint you because so far, I'm
I just think it's in good hands.

Speaker 2 (55:59):
It clearly, I mean, just listening to what Rains was saying,
I'm like, this is like Paul Haymond verbiage. Here. They're
leaning heavily on pa He may not be the creative
director anymore of the Raw brand, but clearly he's heavily
involved in laying out what they're doing with Roman Reigns
and it's working. So I'm excited about it. It's everything

(56:19):
we thought it could be. You know that for years,
all of us, just so many people are turning this guy,
what are you waiting for? And they finally did, and
it's just I think they're I wondered, events is kicking himself, No,
why didn't I do this sooner? But yeah, it's like
what the story with with Jimmy or I'm sorry with
Jay us so very well done. Looking forward to seeing

(56:40):
where they go with that next, because I don't know
if they Jimmy was the one who Okay, you're you know,
you're the you're the tribal chief, you're you're the head
of the table. I don't know that we ever heard
that from Jay. So if they want to milk this
out for one more, they certainly can. If they don't,
I guess that's when you get worried, because I think

(57:01):
we might be moving back into the Fiend and it
may be a baby face Fiend with Alexa Bliss with him,
but we still haven't seen any sign that anyone who
works with the Fiend comes down of it better than
they were going into it.

Speaker 1 (57:14):
Yeah, the look Alexa Bliss gave Rains leaving as he
was arriving is the type of thing that either plants
the seed for something a little ways down the road,
or it's possible but an outlier that it was just
sort of a cool moment they wanted to have and
it won't lead anywhere, or it could mean we're imminently
moving towards Rains and Hayman against Fiend and Alexa. I mean,

(57:38):
just as an observer of big stars in big booking situations,
I'd be intrigued with what they try to pull off
with it. But having the Fiend be a babyface against
Rains this early, and Rains is run with Hayman, it
just feels early. It feels premature. That seems like something,
you know, we talk about, what do they have for
WrestleMania to me, make me want to see that match

(57:59):
before you go into the feud and I'm not there yet,
And you know, map out a course where the Fiend
is someone you clearly have decided that you've You've laid
it out where the fan base is behind the Fiend.
In Alexa, they're weird, they're creepy, they've got a spotty passed.
Alexa was mean to Nikki, the Fiend was awful to Broad.
But if Brown goes to Raw and goes heel and

(58:20):
Fiend and Alexa are quirky but likable. I mean, I
think you can get to a point where people want
to see the Fiend take out Hayman and Rains, and
in Hayman I trust in terms of this, if he
has say so in it, I don't think they're going
to just rush because a Fiend is such a huge
character for SmackDown, for WWE, They've invested so much in them.

(58:42):
I just don't think they move flippantly into a quick
turnaround hell in a cell match between Rains and Fiend
when they have more story they can tell with Jay
and I don't think they even they don't want to
do something on a December pay per view. I don't
think they want Rains and Fiend as the undercart on
the rumble. So to me, I'm leaning towards slow build.
But we're looking at Rains Fiend for Mania because that's

(59:03):
a match they could if they needed to, depending on
where we are. They can do a cinematic match with
that also if need be. And I don't know if
they're you know, Vince's thinking that far ahead on.

Speaker 2 (59:12):
This, boy Gosh, I hope not. But I'm just I'm
over the cinematic thing. But I think i'd actually like
to see the Fiend in Alexa move to Raw and
stay heal. I just have more faith in that working
than I do this clicking as babyfaces. Hey, I guess
you know, maybe once I see it'll be like, oh
now I get it. And this this will be fine,

(59:33):
but it's just it's kind of hard to envision. Even
though bray White is witty, especially in that persona that
he has as the you know, on the Firefly phone
House set and all that, it's still gonna be weird
once he gets in the ring as the fiend and
being this unstoppable monster and all of that. Uh, it's
a heel. It's a horror movie villain. And so now
you're going to turn that horror movie villain baby face

(59:56):
to feud with the Roman Reigns. I mean, I want
the realism that we got from the Roman and jay
Uso match. That's what I'm looking for, more of that
from Roman rans not he slides into a feud with
a guy straight out of a B level horror movie,
and I think I don't want to see it at Mania.
I don't want to see it now, I guess I
just don't want to see it.

Speaker 1 (01:00:16):
Yeah, And that's why I'm like, if they're going to
do it, it's big names and they've invested heavily in them.
Let me see what they come up with. And I
look forward to observing them try to make it work.
I do not if they rush it so to me,
if I'm out all giving a guarded endorsement of it,
it's like tell a long story arc and really know
what you're doing. Otherwise, Yeah, let's keep fiend Heel, move
him against Drew, and you know have have Braun. You

(01:00:41):
know who knows. Whatever they do with Braun, he can
be another opponent for Droon Rah or whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:00:45):
And I don't want to see I don't mean to
see Rains in a Helena Sell match, Like if they like,
I could live with another Jay and Rains match. I could,
but it would be pretty repetitive. I don't know what
you would do differently. I mean you can still, you're
still getting to the point I guess where Jay has
to acknowledge that he's the tribal chief, and you can

(01:01:07):
do that within Helen to Sell. But I just I
don't know that they need to have another match right now,
and I don't know that it needs to be Helena
cell because I don't know what you can do differently
other than just Roman beats him up. Even more so,
I think you can get by with if they want to.
I don't know if they're going to go right to
Sasha and Bailey, and if they do are they going

(01:01:27):
to go right to Helena Cell? I mean, it seems
like it should be the blowoff match, not the first
match between the two. Mcintyren Orton is certainly ready for it.
I know they love to have multiple Helena Cell matches.
I just don't I don't think we need it.

Speaker 1 (01:01:39):
Yeah, I think Bailey Sasha they might do that, and
you know it's been brewing for long enough. It doesn't
feel like, you know, it's only in Vega suddenly a
challenger and now she loses twice. You know, it's like
it would feel rushed if they want to Sasha, Bailey
and Helena Cell in that respect, because they've been We've
been waiting for this for so long. There's so much backstory.
But yeah, absolutely, you absolutely can wait to do it
and maybe get more out of it if they have

(01:02:01):
a one on one match first. So I think you
can make a case either way put it off or
either do a hell in a Cell or do a
one on one, or don't even have them wrestle each
other right away. I think you can make a decent
case for all of them. And I don't know what
you know for sure what Vince has in mind, but
I would be for one Hell in a Cell match
on Hell and a Cell pay per views. I think
it's a disadvantage with big gimmick matches to have two

(01:02:23):
of them on one show. I feel the way about
ladder matches, and I mean, pick your gimmick match one.
You know, one per pay per view is enough keep
them special. I think there's diminishing returns if you do
two in a row. That's hard. If you open up
or have one early in the show and then one later,
I think it defines down the concept a bit. To
have it early in the show. There's no way to do.

(01:02:44):
I mean, you can try and give it a good,
good effort, but it's hard to not have seeing the
Hell in a Cell for the second time feel less special.
So I just put Orton and Drew in there and
have any other match that you do on that show,
have other stipulations or no stipulations works for me. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:03:08):
Longing for some nostalgia or maybe you want to learn
some wrestling history, don't miss the nineties Past Cast Every
Friday on the PW Torch Daily Cast Feed. Alex and
Patrick will transport you thirty years into the past by
taking you through the Torch issue from that very week,
follow news from the WWF and WCW and all the

(01:03:28):
happenings from across the wrestling industry in real time, as
The Torch reported it thirty years ago. That's the nineties
past cast every Friday on the PW Torch Daily Cast feed.

Speaker 1 (01:03:52):
It's Jay. I thought on SmackDown on Friday, had had
some highs and blows in terms of his performance. I thought,
I don't know if he was nervous, or he's just
not a super good promo, or it's just the way
he speaks, but everything felt sort of disjointed and incomplete.
I didn't feel emotional resonance in his solo promo. It
just felt like he was kind of jumping around, like

(01:04:13):
the channels were turning in his brain and he couldn't
complete a thought and it was kind of, frankly driving
me nuts. By the end of the show, I thought
he did much better, and then Sunday I thought he
was really good in that role. And I'm not even
saying he got better as much as I think he
has some strengths and weaknesses, and he's better performing in
the ring than he is on the mic. And I
think that showed on Sunday. And that's why I say,
I don't think Jimmy's like this big star coming out

(01:04:35):
of this. I think this is still a story about
Roman Reigns and Paul Hayman. Do you doubt that at all?
Do you think that Jimmy's more than just a player
in the Roman Reigns story and that once this is over,
that the USO's or Jay in particular, can be Can
j be a star and break out the way you

(01:04:56):
know Edge and Jeff Hardy and pick your tag wrestler
who has broken out from a long from tag team?
Are you seeing signs of that with Jay? I'm I'm
just I'm not. I'm not ruling it out, but I'm
not seeing that. I don't think suddenly this is a
sign that, oh, yeah, let's let's give Jay a singles
push at a you know, like a sustained icy title level.

Speaker 2 (01:05:15):
Yeah, he hasn't. In fairness, he hasn't really had an
opportunity to do a lot to show off, you know,
what his promo ability is, because I think he my design,
has been the guy happy, go lucky and a little bit.
Oh I'm kind of seeing what my cousin's doing it
was wasn't until that last promo on SmackDown where he

(01:05:37):
got a chance to play up the you know why
not me? And I thought he did a good job
with that. The rest of it is just kind of happy,
go lucky USO brother that you would see with the
two of them together and cutting the usual penitentiary line
and all data promos and that. So I would need
to see more. I can't rule it out either, but no,
I still think long term this leads to Roman As

(01:06:00):
you know, he's established himself as the High Chief or
that I guess not the High Chief but the because
that was Peter Mayavilla. But whatever they're calling and the
tribal chief, and these two are going to fall in line.
I really think you're going to see some sort of
a Simoan dynasty or the bloodline as they've been called before.
I think you're going to see them as a faction,

(01:06:21):
and you're going to see the USO's going after the
tag titles and also running interference in Romans matches, and
I look forward to it. I think it can be.
It's something that long before they finally pulled off the
Roman heel turned that I think a lot of us
have been kind of saying if they ever did, this
would be a lot of fun.

Speaker 1 (01:06:35):
I agree with you. I think that's the best course
to take, because I don't once Jay is done with
Rains as a babyface, if he gets defeated and doesn't
submit to Rains and he splits off, it just feels like, well, okay,
I mean the peak of his career was feuding with
Roman and nothing. He's not strong enough on his own
feuding with you know, aj Styles or Sammy Zain where
I think, I mean, it would be fine, but I
don't think it's This isn't a starmaking feud if he

(01:06:57):
loses to Rain's given what I've seen from himself far.
But Jimmy and Jay submitting to Roman and being his
henchmen as you know, kind of a Santana or teez
in Er circle type thing for Jericho, you know, pick
your pick your or O'Reilly and Fish helping out Adam Cole.
You know that that dynamic and creating a faction works.
And I mean Hayman's done that before with the SST

(01:07:19):
and WCW. He's like, it's just there's a history there,
and I'm I'm wondering I wonder if w B would
even like touch on that at any point, Orf Hayman
would even vote for it to talk about you know
that Hayman going back, you know, thirty years had managed
the SST. It seems like they wouldn't go there because
it's not their storyline. And I don't think they would
think there's a big thing. There's a lot to be

(01:07:40):
gained from it, but it is kind of a I
could see w B dot com doing a story on it.

Speaker 2 (01:07:44):
They haven't sure, yeah, or Paul working an into a
promo and taking his chances and seeing if anyone can. Yeah. Yeah,
they have a really good thing going right now. That's
just the range heel turn really breathed from life in
the SmackDown, And and I'm even if they didn't have
because he's newly healed, even if there wasn't a draft,

(01:08:07):
I mean, you could still look ahead and see some
interesting opponents for him. Jeff Hardy comes to mind as
one for sure. Matt Riddle I think is just damaged
through his own doing, and I think it's playing out
in the book and that I don't think they have
much faith in him.

Speaker 1 (01:08:22):
Right now, and I don't blame them and elaborate on
that beyond beyond his personal situation.

Speaker 2 (01:08:27):
What's going on, Well, that's just it. It's the personal situation,
you know, the the well what should be a personal
situation that he's continued to make public through his lawyer.
I mean, you know, he the allegations we were put
out there, and he's responded to them, and I understand
you're going to respond, but it's the way they've done

(01:08:47):
this where they just they look bad, you know, they
just like and quite fely. I think. So there was
a stretch there where she he was denying that they
were that they were ever together, and then she released
photos to prove that they actually were together, and fairly recently,

(01:09:08):
you know, within the last year. I think it was
something like that. My timeline might be off. And to me,
it made both parties look bad because number one, okay,
you know, Matt Riddle is clearly lying if he's claiming
that they weren't together, and then since then they've you know,
he's acknowledged they had an affair. But it also makes
her look bad that Okay, you're you're crying foul about

(01:09:31):
the allegation in the van, but you were willing to
be with him, and would you still be with him
if it was if he was willing to leave his wife.
You know, I just don't know that anybody look good there.
But I think they keep the attorney and Riddle just
keep making themselves look terrible with just some of the
way that just the statements the attorney has put out

(01:09:52):
in things, and it's I'm surprised WWE hasn't stepped in
and said, hey, let us guide you through this, because
I just I think he's looking really bad.

Speaker 1 (01:10:01):
Even the announcing. You know, they're talking about Riddle, you know,
being controversial in some of his public comments and how
he conducts himself behind the scenes. It's like, I don't
know what the motivation is for saying that, if they
think it's building up his personality, or if they're trying
to send him a message, or they're trying to send
like fans a message, you know, if he's going to
lose this match to Corbin. You know, we're kind of

(01:10:22):
throwing out there and commentary there might be a reason
why we're not willing to get one hundred percent behind him,
And you know, I think sometimes we underestimate watching the
product from the outside. If that there are things that
we're privy to, but there's things we sometimes aren't privy
to that dictate management's faith and going with somebody, you know,
and whether you agree or disagree, they had their reasons
not wanting to go all in with Sea on Punk.
You know, they found his personality prickly and he he

(01:10:44):
was he's very individualistic at a time when Dobey was
really trying to get everybody on board to be team
players and sort of play the game wink and nod.
You know, there's egos around here that needs stroking. Just
do it so that we know you're not going to
be trouble if we really get behind you. And Punk
just won't play that game. And so you know, when
when it's a coin flip, you know, whether to do

(01:11:05):
something with someone or push somebody harder, you know they're
going to go to somebody that they think plays a
game more and Riddle, I think is going to be
on the losing side of that. And I think that happens,
not not a ton, but probably more often than we
know when we get a little baffle that why someone's
push stops or why someone isn't getting a big book. Heck,
even Keith Lee and NXT. You know, his reputation was
he walked around like you own the place, and people

(01:11:27):
are like, dude, just you know, come on, I mean,
be a little more humble behind the scenes. You don't
have to be in character all the time. It makes
us think, you know, you're taking yourself too seriously and
you're going to be a head case if we really
give you a push. And you know, they go through
this kind of long, not humbling process. But you know,
let's let's test him a little bit. Let's let's make
sure he pays some dues and understands we're in control,

(01:11:47):
and that stuff happens all the time.

Speaker 2 (01:11:49):
I wouldn't Speaking of Lee, I wonder if he's a
candidate to move.

Speaker 1 (01:11:53):
And then be a baby face opponent for Rains. Well, yeah,
I just yeah, yeah, I could totally see that, and
I could see all bonding to well, you know, he
would see Lea as this you know, kind of ball
a clay for him to form in his vision of
a lead babyface. I could see him and you know,
with his knowledge of wrestling history, pulling from other successful
acts that Lee reminds him of.

Speaker 2 (01:12:12):
And I'm just not seeing them do anything on WRAW
right now. I mean, we're not even talking about Keith Lee,
and we should be, you know. I mean that had
they done their jobs, he would be in this conversation
for what you know, what's good on WRAW and what's
good on SmackDown. He's not part of it because they'd
just been kind of up and down with the push
and then they just need to turn him loose in
a match and let him do his thing, and they're not.

(01:12:34):
I really thought Monday was a great opportunity with him
being in there with Andrade, just to know. I think
they think, well, but we featured him in a squash.
But the thing they're not thinking, no one's remembering that
match at the end of the night. It just okay,
that happened and you move on. It didn't feel like
anything special for Keith Lee. Where if you can let

(01:12:56):
him go out there and do what he did to
get himself over in the first place, by having these
memorable matches, with these memorable moments, that's when I think
he's really going to start to click. Not because well
he squashed androtte like everybody else does in three minutes
unfortunately anyway, And I would think that going back to
what you said earlier about how they like to have

(01:13:16):
people lose matches on the way out of the brand.
I wouldn't be surprised if that's what's happening with Andrade,
because I don't know why you'd break up in Angelina anyway,
And I mean I used to as much as it
would it'd be a head scratcher. He's like, well, it
is two different writing teams. I don't know why Vince
allows it to happen, but I guess they're they're treating
it like the old territories now with the same writing,

(01:13:38):
Like what purpose does this serve?

Speaker 1 (01:13:42):
That's the thing. When you said Lee was going to
smack on my first thought was, well, he would have
lost on Raw Monday based on our joke, our semi
joking earlier that they job people out before they switch.
But I think you're right. I mean, Androtte losing could
be that I have. I do not know what's going
on with Selena Androtte and Garza. I mean, it's like
it it doesn't make any sense to me. I don't
have faith that it's going to work out. But I'm

(01:14:02):
not ruling out that they have something in mind. But
I think wherever they land, We're going to look back
and go they didn't week to week they were changing
their mind. They didn't know. You know, Zelena Vega going
from a heel manager to heal opponent, an undersized heal
opponent of a champion, and losing twice in thirty hours,
everything was just compacted. Should that should have been you know,

(01:14:26):
whether you say four months or fourteen months, I mean
that should have been a journey she was on, she
earned the title shot, the remat should have been spread out.
It just feels like they've they spent that part of
her super quickly. And she's super talented in the ring,
but she's so undersized to be heal. She's super talented
on the microphone, but she's with a tag team that
was vickering in a bad storyline and they may or

(01:14:47):
may not be split off. So I mean, Androtti losing
the lee, you send Androde to SmackDown to what feud
with Jeff Hardy's was Selenavegga managing him because they reunited?

Speaker 2 (01:15:00):
Boyfriend, Let's be real, I mean, sadly, that's what it's
become for him. Yeah, and it shouldn't be. He's a
talented guy. But it just seems like that's how they
book him, Like, oh, yeah we have Anderrada. He's around
because of Charlotte, so yeah, we'll put him in a
tag team.

Speaker 1 (01:15:12):
With cars Yeah and Gars. I mean, since he ran
away from Retribution, it's just hard for me to take
him seriously. I hated that they booked him in that spot.

Speaker 2 (01:15:20):
It made me laugh. I got it.

Speaker 1 (01:15:21):
Mean, well, yeah, if you're if you have but you
feel like stock, if you had stock in his future,
you would not be laughing. You would be like, well,
they just they lowered his uh. I mean you can
mark you o's for a listen. No one will remember,
but I just think characterized that that made him go
from kind of a badass womanizer to a comedy figure.
Chicken shit.

Speaker 2 (01:15:39):
So well, has anyone checked on Demi Burnette? I mean,
last week saw him being chased down by this heel horse,
this faction and then just disappeared.

Speaker 1 (01:15:48):
Well maybe she's, you know, hanging out with the rounderground
folks and half the women's division that good people. I
don't know. You don't have to wait for the way
Keller Pro Wrestling post show to find out what I
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can check out my reports that are updated live throughout

(01:16:09):
Raw and SmackDown at pwtorch dot com. My written report
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(01:16:32):
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first stop for TV and pay per view written reports.

(01:17:01):
Speaking of the women's division, where do you anticipate things
going in terms of Oscar and what's next for her?
Does she stay champion for a while and they line
up your opponents? I can't. I don't know what to
make of Mandy and Dana coming in, and then you
have Lana and Natalia, who are just a joke the
way they've been portrayed. Then you have rad squad. You

(01:17:23):
suddenly have it like this sort of semi deep take
team division on both Ron SmackDown, but you don't have
obvious opponents who are healthy and available for OSCA. What's
your depth chart post draft for Oscar's opponents and do
you see her losing her or keeping the title in
defending against a variety of heels.

Speaker 2 (01:17:43):
I think she's going to keep it, But yeah, I
just think they're going to move over the damaged women
from SmackDown and try to make them her next contenders.
You mentioned they burn through Zelena Vega. Look what they
did with Mickey James. She just gets one win and
then all of a sudden she's in line for a
title shot, and you're thinking, okay, so they'll do that

(01:18:04):
at the pay per view. I wish they would have
spent a little more time building her up. No, they
blow that off on TV to get to the rush
to Lena Vega match. I didn't understand that even a
little bit. Then you look at the rest of the
depth there the only match that really intrigues me. Of
the current people that are on the raw side for OSCA,
I guess two of them I still think they've really

(01:18:26):
made a mistake with Shanna Basler. She should be the
champion and people like Osca and Bianca bell Air should
be chasing her at some point, and bell Air, I think,
could be the person who eventually beat her. But I
think they're building up Bianca. It sure seems to be
in a baby face way. So I don't know where
that leaves her. As far as you know, a potential

(01:18:47):
program with Osca, there's just nothing there. They've plowed through
everyone they've I mean, this is self created. They've wasted.
They spent too much time focusing on Osca, Sasha Banks,
and Bailey. That's all they've cared about. And it's I'm
I'm bored by Oscar and I quite frankly, I have

(01:19:09):
been for a long time. Uh the whole promo, She's
gonna come out and laugh and yell in Japanese and
then close with the usual line. I'm just over it.
And she has been very good in the ring, so
that's been, you know, making up for some of the
issues with the character. But now she's out of fresh opponents,
and I don't know where they go. I mean, if
it's me, I get those tag titles off of Basler

(01:19:30):
and Nia Jackson.

Speaker 1 (01:19:30):
Immediately and what just so they can be singles.

Speaker 2 (01:19:34):
So yeah, so they can keep contenders. Yep. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:19:37):
I think it's just super wide open what they do.
And you know, Bianca Beller, I don't know what we're
supposed to like her or dislike her because she's a
great athlete great that doesn't always translate to being a
great wrestler. But they're you know, giving her TV time
and that that sends a message to viewers that you know, hey,
we think she's a star because we're giving her this
vignette time. Yet her celebrating after it's just to me,

(01:20:01):
I find it obnoxious. I know other people find it
endearing or you know, awesome, but she just rubs me
the wrong way in terms of her body language and
how she goes about shoving in people's faces. How good
she is, I just don't. I mean, some people are
going to rally behind that, but I think they're miscalculating
if they think people are gonna on a wide scale
embrace that level of cockiness and the way she goes

(01:20:23):
about it. So I don't know. I mean, it's not
all about me. I mean, if it works, it works.
But it's not endearing to me. Where do you think
they go with her? And what is her upside?

Speaker 2 (01:20:32):
Maybe you know, maybe I'm looking at it wrong. Maybe
I'm just seeing her through the usual lens of being
a baby face, in part because you know, when she's
been on wrong and a limited just on a limited basis,
she's been it's the wife of montes Ford, and she's
doing babyface things with the street profits, and I guess
in her matches she's been a baby face. But yeah,
maybe this will be this is their attempt to reposition

(01:20:54):
her as a heel. I guess I didn't see it
that way in the in the latest venue, but maybe
I just need to kind of watch it with that
in mind and I'll see it differently. It would make
sense if they're going to keep her in Oscar on
the same brand and they're committed to and they should
be committed to Oscar as a baby face. She turned
not that long ago, I mean had been that long

(01:21:15):
since she was with you know, part of the Kabooki
Warriors as heels, So I wouldn't go back to heel
Oscar right away. I think bill Air has real upside
as a babyface, but she could be certainly have a
run as a heel and do okay, so that would work.
I like Bionca a lot. I just think that she
does have a bit of an it factor to her
and just that confidence in charisma that we saw on NXT.

(01:21:39):
And it's just taken them a while for whatever they
call her up and clearly had no plan and now
it looks like they're finally getting to it.

Speaker 1 (01:21:47):
Yeah, And part of it is contextual, you know, when
she's just shoven in the face of these poor people
who just decided to run a sprint race for her,
that's one thing, versus you know, doing it in the
face of an obnoxious heel who you want to see
brought down. That then you know her her, the context
of her, of her cockiness and kind of over the
top in your face celebrating of her, of her estnis

(01:22:10):
can can be looked at differently. All right, would you
do you forecast at Sasha Banks ever gets a chance
to be a lead centerpiece, top top act on one
of the shows or do you get the sense that
they're just biding their time till Charlotte maybe Becky someday

(01:22:31):
or like is is Sasha or if someone from NXT
is to complete. My sense, is Sasha in line for
that moment or is she going to be frustrated that
she really never got the chance to just win the
title decisively and be the person who heals line up
to try to take down and she fend them off.

Speaker 2 (01:22:48):
I think if she stays healthy, this is the time.
I think she'll beat Bailey and become that person. I mean,
we need to see how the the roster shape up
after the draft that that may be telling. And you
know they're never ending fondness for Charlotte Flair could be
a factor, but I think this is the time because
it has I mean, it's it's absurd and she's never
successfully defended that title and it's any women's singles championship

(01:23:12):
that she gets. It's pretty ridiculous. So I do think, yeah,
there with that in mind, they're going to do it
right this time. I hope I do too.

Speaker 1 (01:23:21):
I think she has a chance with live crowds for
people to really get behind her, and it can really
help business. You know, it can help ratings. I think
people would would. I think people are clamoring for her
to get her opportunity. I think she has a bond
with fans that a lot of wrestlers just never achieve.
So well, well we'll see. I just I think the

(01:23:44):
women's division is just such, it's so up in the air,
and you know Charlotte's X factor, you know Ria Ripley,
Bianca Bella. I mean, you can just make a case
for a variety of people who might knock Sasha out
of that spot. Is Bailey impressing you or do you
think she's leveled off? And where is she leveled off
in your eyes? As a heel champion.

Speaker 2 (01:24:06):
I'm finally enjoying her. It's taken a long time. Yeah,
just get that stench of the terrible booking off of her.
But I'm finally now that I think so much of
it is there finally to the feud that we all
knew was coming, and it just made all of her
title matches feel highly predictable. It just wasn't a fun

(01:24:26):
title reign, or it hasn't been until now because every
paper it's like, well they got Sasha waiting in the wings,
are not going to change the title here, and so
I think that was damaging. But I think she's doing
a really nice job. I think she's getting good heat
with Sasha. The attack on Sasha was well done. So
I'm finally there, and you know, it's probably time for

(01:24:47):
her title, and unfortunately, I mean, if they may take
their time with it, but I think we all just
kind of assume that she's going to drop that title
to Sasha, and then I guess the tough part is
where does she go from there? You know, once she
I mean three hundred and you know, forty some day
title ring, whatever it's up to. Once she loses that,
where do you go when she You know, it's not

(01:25:09):
like she hasn't held every other title already, I.

Speaker 1 (01:25:12):
Know, I mean she has, She's developed a personality and
credibility with a long title rain enough that they teamed
her up with somebody and told a story of them
being someone else and they were dominant take champs for
a while, and then that person split off against her
and turned babyface on her. And you can buy yourself,
you know, eight months of Bailey just being in a
tag team and then feud with her partner who finally

(01:25:33):
gets sick of her. I mean, there's things you can
do with her, but you can't if she loses a title.
You have to have something important for her to do
right away, or it'll feel like, you know, she's just
been discarded and there's a new flavor of the year
that they're going to just lean on, and she's just
lost and she had you know, twenty twenty is her
year or whatever. So yeah, I think there's a ton
up in the air in the women's division, and the

(01:25:55):
Superstar shakeup is you know, until it happens, until the draft,
I guess I should call it. It's it's not you know,
we shouldn't go down too many roads too far, because
there's gonna be a whole different alignment of wrestlers. And
you know, one second you think Peyton Royce getting pushed,
the next you think, oh, they're going with Mandy because
she switched brands, and then you know, oh, you know, what,
what are they doing with Shana? And it's just like
and Lacey Evans start and stop, and Mickey James coming

(01:26:17):
back and getting jobbed out. It's just so haphazard. You
just I don't I have I don't feel confident in
any predictions.

Speaker 2 (01:26:25):
Yeah, one thing I'm hoping will happen is that in time,
if Sasha becomes champion, they're gonna give up on the
feud with Mandy Rose and bring Sonya to bille Back
to SmackDown to feud with Sasha. I like to her
and Mandy's fine, but I think there's money in Sonya
and I just think she's ready to be moved up

(01:26:46):
the food shain into a real contender spot. I would
enjoy that feud quite a bit.

Speaker 6 (01:26:57):
I'm Kelly Wells, host of The Seven Star Post, the
new ongoing Torch show covering the world of New Japan
pro wrestling. We'll drop new episodes as major shows and
noteworthy events dictate, and I'm Chris Lansdowe join us as
we covered the ever changing landscape of New Japan as
they navigate an era with no lack of talent but a.

Speaker 2 (01:27:17):
Real need to create some news stars. You can stream
the new seven Stop podcast now from Pro Wrestling Talk.

Speaker 1 (01:27:37):
Hi, Jason, we haven't got to aw yet. Let's talk
a little bit about what's coming up tomorrow night and
just kind of assess the product. Chris Jericho on his
Making New Stars tour, Uh for a w are trying
to lava eight people facing Isaiah Cassidy. What do you
think of where Jericho is right now? It seems like
with the MJF stuff, he's on a path to being

(01:27:59):
the face opponents of a heel MJF. But I don't
know if they end up teaming together in the same
faction first. But up for up first is Isaiah Cassidy.
Your thoughts on on Jericho's twenty twenty.

Speaker 2 (01:28:13):
You know, I think it makes a lot of sense
the way they're doing this. If he is going to
be a baby face at some point, let him give
those credibility building moments. You know, I don't know how
many people were actually going to beat him, but you know,
give a little something to Mark Quinn. I personally, I
thought it was going to end up being I'm sorry, Cassidy.

(01:28:34):
I thought it was going to be Quinn that they
were going to go with. I was kind of surprised
that they ended up going with Cassidy in that role instead.
But I look forward to the match and maybe we'll
still get a Quinn match coming out of this. I think, Yeah,
So if you're going to turn him at some point,
he's kind of I mean, he's already kind of had
his go with Moxley. You could still do something with
him and Cody, but Cody's tied up with Brody Lee

(01:28:54):
right now, so I think it makes sense for him
to try to elevate some people and then you know,
move into that feud with MJF whenever that starts. And
I wonder it's interesting MJF talked about maybe he needs
to be part of a faction, and I think we,
many of us just kind of assumed, Oh, they're going
to go that Horseman style faction that's been so heavily

(01:29:16):
rumored that really hasn't happened yet. What if he takes
over Inner Circle from Jericho and that's how they get to.

Speaker 1 (01:29:22):
That, I know, you know, I mean I Jericho and
MGF so far has been way more hit than myths
in terms of their interactions. I like the I like
the dynamic between them. They're just similar body types. There's
similar personalities, but also different enough that it doesn't feel
like mgf's copying Jericho, but instead, you know, just they're
they're mirror They're they're playing out the idea that they're

(01:29:44):
sort of mirror images of themselves. But there's you know,
Jericho's twice mgf's age, and so in Jericho, you know,
with the fancying along to his entrance song. I mean,
if there's somebody who can turn and who can turn
Jericho's baby face and give Jericho a just a rocket
launch opponent for a baby face turn, I mean MGF

(01:30:06):
more than anybody I think is that is that fit
and the promost between them would be fun. So I'm
looking forward to that. But you know, first and foremost,
I just I really do like seeing Jericho as a
heel still, and I want to enjoy this while I can,
and having a private party and in this case, I say,
a cassidy from that team get a chance to you know,
be the young a little in over his head, but enthusiastic.

(01:30:29):
Maybe I can do it, maybe I can't. I want
to try against somebody of Jericho's stature. I think that's
a compelling TV match, and I like it for tomorrow night,
I do too.

Speaker 2 (01:30:37):
I'm looking forward to that. And I think in time,
you know, when we talk about this, when they'll get
to Jericho and MJF. I mean, if it's just slow
developing as everything else they do, this might be two
years down the road. You might have two more years.
Ifris Jericho is a heel, they really like to drag things.

Speaker 1 (01:30:53):
Out, Yes, although drag things out sounds judgy and I'm
not even sure. I mean, I'm in some ways somethings
have gone on too long, but it's not. Yeah, it
really is case by case. I mean it can, it
can build up and mean more. I just want them
to do it for the right reason. John Moxley takes
on an opponent of Eddie Kingston's choosing any candidates there.

Speaker 2 (01:31:16):
Oh, I'm guessing it'll be one of Kingston's guys. I
guess I'm trying to think of. I think pent In
Phoenix were both there. I mean they kind of had
They've had their own outbreak issues as well in aw
so I don't remember who was all on last week's show,
but if Penten Phoenix were there, I'd love to see
one of them do it. But that's something I would

(01:31:36):
I would announce in advance. I think they they're kind
of missing the boat on Pentin Phoenix, and somebody kind
of said yesterday they're wondering, is it because the relationship
with Triple A is non existent and those guys could
be pulled at any time and I don't know, you know,
I don't know their contractual details there, but it does
feel like they should be doing more with them. And
if nothing else, well, you know, get a good singles

(01:31:58):
match out of either pentagon On or Phoenix against Moxley.
I think that could be really good.

Speaker 1 (01:32:04):
Yeah, I get I get the pros of announcing it.
I also just think anytime you give wrestling viewers a mystery,
there seems to be some equity in that. And it
also gives Moxy something to talk about if you know,
you know, yeah, or the anouncer can say, mox he
didn't have any chance to prepare for this. He didn't
know he's facing, so gives a little bit of an
edge to the heels that feels unfair, and that's not
a bad bad thing going into a storyline either. And

(01:32:26):
then Darby Allen and Ricky Starks. Ricky has been I think,
really good so far in aw as an obnoxious, just
agitating heel. It was, you know, fun on Color commentary
last week. I think it was aw Dark. Yeah, it
was aw Dark, not Late Night Dynamite. And and then
Darby's just Darby, you know, just He's already a legend

(01:32:47):
in the eyes of fans who watched Dynamite.

Speaker 2 (01:32:50):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:32:50):
Demographically, I just think there's people who look at him
as you know, one of the top three reasons they
watch AW. I just think Aw's done a great job
protecting his mystique and presenting him as someone who is
his own guy, who's going to be a certain segment
of the audience's favorite wrestler, even if another segment doesn't
get him at all. And Starks against Arby is I
think a really fun matchup. I think they can headline

(01:33:12):
Dynamite with that and get away with it. They probably
will do Moxley, but not necessarily.

Speaker 2 (01:33:17):
I'm kind of surprised they didn't save this for the
pay per view, as you know, speak of slow builds
that the way that it's, Yeah, it's a match that
they've they've given some creative love to know, there's been
a build up for it, but I just kind of
thought it would poke along until the pay per view.
So it does feel like, in a way, a middle
of the pay per view, maybe upper third of the

(01:33:37):
pay per view style of match that they're they're putting
on TV, and I'm looking forward to it. I've been
Stark's like in the NWA basically saw we saw him
be that pretty boy, heel baby, whatever he was. He
just was kind of an arrogant guy, and like I
knew he could play that, but some of the promos,
there was one in particular where he kind of showed

(01:33:59):
that means streak and I'm like, oh good, he has
there's more to him. You know, He's not just that
most heels can cut the heat, you know, the cocky
heel promo, and it was nice to see, like, there's
more to this guy. He's got He's got a little
more arranged than he's been able to show. So I'm
high on both of those guys and I look forward
to that match. I just hope we don't get any
you know, skateboards with them taxing them.

Speaker 1 (01:34:20):
No or yeah, being thrown at a black bag and
tossed over the top row. Jeez, we're about to go
to a commercial break. Why listened to commercial breaks? When
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(01:34:43):
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(01:35:05):
Then we also have FTR with the Brush with Greatness Tour,
debuting or kicking off with against scud. Did you understand
the rules? Have you been able to clarify the rules
of how this works and who gets a win if
it goes to the time limit.

Speaker 2 (01:35:22):
So I think the idea is if it goes to
the twenty minute time limit, which seems too long because
most dyne My matches don't go that long. Anyway, I
would have win with fifteen. Then that's like champions retain
and they just move on. I don't.

Speaker 1 (01:35:38):
But they said they actually got a win in the
in the in the standings if it goes twenty.

Speaker 2 (01:35:43):
Yeah, that's right they have. They're trying to last twenty
minutes with them, aren't that so?

Speaker 1 (01:35:46):
But that was what was confusing the way they said it.
It was like, well, we'll give these people an opportunity,
but if they don't beat us in twenty it counts
as a win. And you can interpret that either way,
which is, you know, I remember my first wrestling show,
So is Adrian to Donnas against this young upstart Kurt Henning,
And if Kurt lasted ten minutes with Adrian, then that

(01:36:06):
meant Larry the ax Heading got to enter the ring
and get his hands on Adrian as a reward because
a Larry a chance to beat him up. And Adria's like, oh,
I can beat Kurt in ten minutes, and of course
he did int and then Larry got to beat up Adrian.
So they're playing off of that. I think is heel somehow,
but it was You could look at it either way
either FTR saying if we give these guys an opportunity,
if they don't beat us in twenty then we it
counts as a win for us. Or we're so sure

(01:36:29):
we can beat people within twenty that if they just
last twenty minutes with us, it counts for a win
for them. And I haven't like researched if they've clarified
this somehow, But what was your understanding because I just
made I don't think it was just me, but maybe
it was. Did it seem really clear to you what
the rules were.

Speaker 2 (01:36:45):
No, No, it didn't. And I'm still now that you've
gone through that, I'm even less certain. I don't know
that's what I'm here for you, And I don't know
why they're doing this. I think it's you have a
really good tag division. You want to have a non
title matches and put somebody over that we just do it.
I guess I don't need this weird series. Just give

(01:37:06):
me some tag title matches and some non title matches
and it's fine. And I don't know that I need
twenty minute time limits and whatever it is they're trying
to get out of there. Maybe it'll make more sense
as it goes. O, well, it has to. Yeah, find
this somehow.

Speaker 1 (01:37:21):
I think it will be clarified tomorrow night. I mean,
it's just they need to do a better job if
they want to kick off a concept well by actually
explaining it. Well.

Speaker 2 (01:37:29):
Yeah, and even once we get the explanation of what happens,
if they go to twenty minutes, I'm still going to
be left going, why are they doing this?

Speaker 1 (01:37:37):
Oh? I know, yep, I agree. A funnel topic. Kenny
Omega on Color Commentary, Leaning Heel breaking away from the
elite wanting to do singles? Are we and I told
are we in I told you so territory. Ah, they're
very patient, playing long ball with Kenny, and they've established
all these other stars, and now a year in, it's

(01:37:58):
time for Kenny to really assert himself or has enough
damage been done by Kenny just sort of lingering and
being part of it? I know, the COVID stuff, you know,
threw off booking, cadence and pacing and all that. But
are we at a point where Kenny's been to find
out and he actually has to kind of earn his
way back into seeming like the star that a year
ago today everyone was anticipating he'd be instantly.

Speaker 2 (01:38:20):
Boy, So I do think that it's going to be
I told you so, it's going to be framed that way.
I don't know. I mean, there're gonna be people that
claim this was all by design. I don't. I have
a hard time believing that you take a guy that
felt like he was your biggest star and define him
down the way they have and think that that's a
good move. But it's too There's still an audience out

(01:38:45):
there that lives on what he did in Japan and
to the you know, everything has been great so far,
they still view him as a megastar, and they know
they're just kind of waiting for him to be put
back into the singles picture. The bigger issue, it's not
those fans, and it's not even the fans who saw
him in Japan and know what he's capable of. It's

(01:39:08):
those fans that tuned in for aw and maybe they
heard about him MAGA, but they didn't watch New Japan.
You have to win them over. So it's yeah, I'm
not really answering your question definitively, but I think those
are the people you're gonna have to win over, and
I still think he is more than good enough to
be able to do that. It's just, you know, he's
I'm looking forward to seeing him turn it on. It's

(01:39:31):
been too long.

Speaker 1 (01:39:32):
Do you think from what you've seen he has the
personality and charisma to be a top heel and eventually
a top babyface on a nationally televised weekly TV series
or is there something about him that works really well
in New Japan and that isn't just might not ever
translate to being a breakout top act in a two

(01:39:55):
hour weekly national cable shop.

Speaker 2 (01:39:58):
I think this is if this isn't by design, including
the attire, the hair, all of it, I think it's
you know, that's where Tony Khan needs to step in
and you know, kind of produce him in a way
and get the best out of him, get him to
you know, stop wearing the jam shorts and the T

(01:40:18):
shirts and start looking the part. It's going to start
pre taping his promos. There's easy solutions to some of
the issues with Kenny Omega right now. And I think
that if that's going to be kind of a test
for Tony Khan to see if he's willing to do
that or if it's just going to kind of sit
back and let the guys do what they want.

Speaker 1 (01:40:36):
I mean, maybe let Kenny be Kenny will eventually work,
and maybe you give him some breathing space to make
it work. And maybe being maybe, you know, maybe an unconventional,
quirky Kenny who play you know, wears a white, blank
T shirt as opposed to the wrestler's tea shirt he's
trying to sell, and having the most awful hair in
the history professional wrestling, and seeming to be not all

(01:40:58):
that engaged or motivated and to be full of inside
jokes that only his video game, you know, aficionados get,
and you know, then a smaller percentage are even willing
to have it explained to them. We don't get it.
Maybe that all collectively just does connect with a big
part of the demographic Aw's chasing. And I framed it
in a snarky way, and it actually just kind of
there's a confluence of this is what this is why

(01:41:21):
you never can predict too the next big wrestling star
is going to because it's so it can be unconventional.
But Kenny's not this cool, twenty five year old, quirky,
darby allent type guy. He's a guy in his late
thirties who, you know, I don't know if there's time
to see if that works as opposed to taking a
more definitive, deliberate, traditional approach to looking at what his
strengths are and market him as a star framed as such.

Speaker 2 (01:41:45):
Yeah. So much of what he did in in Japan
was the matches, and he would cut the post show
promos when he was champion, you know, the end of
the night type promos, and they were a little quirky,
but not to the level we're seeing him. He wasn't
asked to go out there liver promos and sit in
on commentary the way he is now, And so I
think some of it's inexperienced, some of its personality. But again,

(01:42:09):
there's easy ways around it. There's easy fixes if they
choose to actually do it, and I hope they do
because I just remember how damn good he was and
it did seem like, Wow, this is you know, they
got the guy they needed to be the face of
this thing, and he just hasn't been that and maybe
he never will, but he's still capable of giving them
more than what we've seen so far.

Speaker 1 (01:42:31):
Yep, it's a it's a big story to watch as
we enter you know, fall and winter here and aw
enters year number two. We'll see what they have to
work with for their anniversary show, the COVID Outbreak. Jason,
I guess my actual final topic, do you blame anyone
for this? Is this just the reality of how it's

(01:42:52):
affecting different segments of society. And I mean, and I'll
load the question by saying, I just think both companies
need to have a better education process for wrestlers. I
feel like wrestlers left to their own devices, are gonna
see misinformation on Facebook. You know, that's speaking of super spreaders.
Facebook is a super spreader of of you know, false

(01:43:12):
information and conspiracy theories with no foundation. And yet, and
then and then some people, and I've talked to wrestlers
who are like this and message wrestlers who are like this,
were like, oh, I don't really know what to believe.
Nobody really knows. And it's like no, no, actually people
really do. Not like there's actually a real there's a
real way you can know, you know. I mean there's
a variance like, you know, we don't know exactly what
mask work. We don't know early on. Do we have

(01:43:34):
to worry about touching groceries that are delivered to our house.
I mean, there's things we're learning along the way, but
there's things that are settled. And I didn't I didn't
sense that a lot of wrestlers understood that. And and
I think that there ended up being a sort of
a feeling among and I think this is across society.
I've sacrificed long enough. Now it's time to go out
there and take chances. And and I think wrestlers sort of,

(01:43:55):
you know, cross cross some lines of taking reasonable safety
precautions to a level of unreasonable lack of safety precautions,
and now everybody's paying a price for it, and it's
cross contaminating both companies and it's affecting both. So I
can blame wrestlers, but I also and staff and all that,
But I really just it goes to the top vinsick Man,

(01:44:16):
Triple H and Tony Kahn. I just think they needed
to be more firm and more deliberate and more declarative
about what they expected of their talent and what's at
stake if somebody slips up because they just can't stand
in Netflix night and they just need to go out
and party.

Speaker 2 (01:44:29):
Right, No, for sure. And I think especially on the
WWE side, and they weren't even doing the COVID testing
for how long, I just think it's sent such a
horrible message where AW has been doing the COVID testing.
But where they lost me was when Jericho played Sturgis
and was allowed to go ahead and wrestle just a
few days later. Even if you're somebody who thinks, well,

(01:44:49):
he's probably going to be fine, you just don't take
the chance. And I think it to me it was
a sign that hey, You've done a great job, but
you're letting your guard down, and so I can't sit here.
I'm not going to boo. I mean, if you attended
the party in question, oh shame on you. I guess
you know you do blame people for that part of it.

(01:45:11):
But with the companies, I don't think WWE has been
as good with this as they should have been. I mean,
it's horrifying to hear Renee Jung say they didn't even
bother to reach out to her after she had the virus,
and it was fairly early on. Still did not even
to check in on her. It's just ludicrous. But I mean, hey,

(01:45:32):
at least I will say both companies are doing the
actual COVID testing now, A Ring of Honor is doing
superb testing. It's amazing. They're just adhering to what the
Maryland Athletic Commission wants them to do. But you know,
as I've said, I mean, I don't know if Sinclair
told them you have to run your shows in Maryland
and that's why they're doing it. But you would think

(01:45:52):
they could have just gone to another state that wouldn't
have been so tough about it, But they haven't. They've
stayed there and they have very strict policy and I've
really I applaud them because when you don't have anything
to hide, you can pat yourself on the back publicly
and look good for doing. And that's what they've done
and they should. They deserve too.

Speaker 7 (01:46:14):
Are you a nostalgic wrestling fan? Do you want to
hear about shows you haven't seen in ten, twenty, maybe
even thirty years.

Speaker 2 (01:46:21):
Well, I have the show for you.

Speaker 7 (01:46:22):
I'm pwtorch dot com contributor Frank Pettyanni and since December
of twenty twenty, I've hosted Pro Wrestling Then and Now.

Speaker 2 (01:46:29):
Together with a rotating chair of co hosts.

Speaker 7 (01:46:32):
We go back and review old shows from top to bottom,
talk about where the wrestlers were at the time, and
compare what's taking place now to what took place. Then
you can hear this along with other shows as part
of your PW Torch VIP membership with exclusive podcasts just
for members compatible with the Apple Podcasts app. Visit pwtorch
dot com slash go vip for details and sign up form.

Speaker 1 (01:47:04):
Yeah, I just I just want every week a speech
from someone who's a trusted leader of every brand, every company, saying,
I know, guys, it's tough. You want, you know, you
want to be social and all that, but you can't,
you know, we just you can't take the chance. You
got to wear your mask and you got to isolate
because we're trying to stay in business, we're trying to

(01:47:25):
entertain America in the world, and you are doing more
traveling and and more, you know, than just about anybody
else in the world right now, you know, I mean
other than maybe some sports teams who are traveling to
different states. And you've got to be responsible, not just
six out of seven days or twenty nine out of
thirty days a month. You have to be one hundred
percent responsible and treat this like a deadly killer. And

(01:47:48):
part of it is you, guys are young and healthy,
and you're not going to show symptoms even if you
have it. In some cases, you can have it and
spread it and not have symptoms because you're so damn
healthy otherwise, and that can lead to you giving it
to a bunch of people not knowing because you didn't
know you were sick, who then go and give it
to vulnerable people who are going to be really sick,
have side effects or rest or life or die, And

(01:48:10):
I just don't think that message. I think that message
needed to be repeated authoritatively every single time that they gathered.
And I just don't get the sense that wrestlers felt
that there was leadership in terms of the education, and
I think there was misinformation and therefore eventually a cavalierness
compared to where they were in April and May when
it was just ghost towns. You know, the difference in
precautions in August and September compared to where they were

(01:48:33):
in April and May on a w had. I give
w to be more credit in one respect because they
had way reduced staff. Everyone was social distancing, people were
in mass backstage, They're changing microphone covers left and right.
And I think they got cavalier because they said, while
we're testing people, so therefore nothing can go wrong and
obviously that's not a fool proof system and you need
to do both and they didn't.

Speaker 2 (01:48:53):
Nope, very well. Said they should have been doing more
in WWE. You're right, you've kind of seen it with
Bow just letting the guard down slowly. I remember there
was an aw show where all of a sudden they
started letting people dive into the crowd of spectator wrestlers
and like, what are you thinking? And now it's just
kind of become common where you're the like the spectator

(01:49:15):
wrestlers at the WWE shows were it took them forever
to get masks on them, and then once they did,
they kind of started mingling a little closer. They started
letting some friends and family into the venue and just
different thing. You could just see the guard coming down,
especially you know, hey, we're tested, so everything's fine, and
it's like, guys, it's it's you know, it's it's not
a fool proof system. It's great that you're tested, but

(01:49:38):
you know you need to treat this as if you're
not tested, and you know clearly they just haven't. And
I mean, I'm just kind of hearing some rumblings that
because of the party situation, there's people in aw kind
of pointing the finger at you know, the WWE talents
for this, and it's like it doesn't matter where it
came from, you know what. You know, it's still happened

(01:49:59):
to you, and you need to do more as far
as like you're saying educational, you know, learn from this,
and you at a company and at the crew.

Speaker 1 (01:50:08):
And don't mingle because you don't know where anyone else
has been. So if it's on a double if I mean, yes,
you've got to wrestle somebody, but you know there's there's
plexiglass between broadcasters, or there's six feet distance between broadcasters.
We don't see that in a W. There's no reason
anybody has to be holding a microphone up to a
wrestler that who isn't wearing a mask and really or

(01:50:28):
face a face shield, And I well, that's that's not comforting.
It's like we're not nothing's comforting right now. It shouldn't be.
That's what's people being comforted by dropping their guard literally
and figuratively is what is making this go on indefinitely.
So just you know, we say, you know, we can
praise a W in a lot of respects deservedly so,
but they still have announcers who are of age of

(01:50:50):
great risk, who they are taking more comfort than they
should in the fact that they're just tested as if
tests are a hundred percent accurate, and they're not. There
should be plexiglass or spacing between them. There shouldn't be
any interviewers holding up microphones for wrestlers. There shouldn't be
wrestlers getting within six feet of anyone who they don't
necessarily need to be within six feet up. There shouldn't
be battle royals. You know, there's still things that should
be being done to just reduce the odds of a breakout.

(01:51:14):
And they got I just think they got cavalier in
terms of the execution of what they were doing, and
they're at risk of it happening. Again, it's anybody can
show up, pass a test and still have it that
is possible. Tests are not one hundred percent accurate. It's
it And again it's not you can do everything right
and still have something and still have somebody get it
and spread it to a couple of people. And I'm

(01:51:35):
allotting for that, Like that's not like, you know, doomsday,
Oh my god, you know everyone's gonna die, that that
might happen. But what you want to make sure is
everyone's educated and actually sacrificing to get through this, to
minimize it as much as you reasonably can while still
having a good wrestling show. And I just feel that
started to slip away a little bit.

Speaker 2 (01:51:56):
Why are they not I don't understand why both companies
aren't just doing bigger tapings. We're get together for a
couple of days and do marathon style tapings just to
limit the travel, limit the exposure instead of you know,
WWE is going live every week. Like it makes a
damn bit of difference. I mean, it's not like the
spoilers were getting out before, so you know, what's what

(01:52:17):
purpose is there?

Speaker 1 (01:52:18):
Yeah, although I mean that's true, and it would minimize
some travel, but if you're apart for three weeks and
or four weeks and wrestlers are going to a party
or a nightclub, there still can bring it in.

Speaker 2 (01:52:32):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:52:32):
It's like it's so if you give them I don't know.
I mean I think if you do every if you
get together every two weeks and everyone's just self isolating
and not mingling up close unless they have to while
on set or offset, I just think the odds of
some of it having a super spreader taping event goes
way way down. And as don't. I just think they've

(01:52:54):
they've let their guard down just enough that you know,
whoever they're pointing fingers at, you know, someone with one
and make a mistake. It shouldn't be a domino effect
that a bunch of other people end up with it,
and frankly, I I this is what I would do
if I'm Tony Kahn. I ask everybody who went to
is a building, are you an anti masker? And if
they say yes, I don't believe in mass, say you
we will call you when we need you go home.

(01:53:15):
I mean, seriously, like you said, it should just be
an oral oral exam if you're if you're saying, or
safe enough to be worth putting on the premises, because
if you have people are anti maskers showing up, who
knows what they're doing before they show up, and they
are a high risk person to not have symptoms and
maybe even pass a test because they're not one hundred
percent and then spread it. So just do an oral

(01:53:36):
exam before people arrive and weed out the people who
are you know, listening to the wrong people.

Speaker 2 (01:53:41):
Do you think if they did that in WWA venge
would high five the person if they should?

Speaker 1 (01:53:45):
Yes, well that's a whole other issue and yes, yeah,
all right, Jason, it's been fun. Thank you again. You
can follow follow him at pro Wrestling Net on Twitter,
search pro wrestling Boom on your podcast app to get
this podcast, and check out pro Wrestling dot Net for
a free website and his membership information, and you can

(01:54:06):
follow us at PW Torch and of course visit pwtorch
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again in three weeks. Yes, we will invite you to

(01:54:33):
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That's Wadekeller Podcast at PW torch dot com. Also welcome
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Speaker 2 (01:54:55):
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(01:55:16):
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