5 YRS AGO FLAGSHIP: Keller & Martin talk NXT Halloween Havoc, AEW Dynamite, Smackdown, Raw, Impact Bound for Glory, UFC 254, more

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
One benefit of VIP membership is access to our back
issue library, contemporaneous in depth insider reporting on pro wrestling
in real time over the past thirty plus years and
throughout the year twenty twenty two. We're going to begin
our march through the year two thousand and two with
back issues posted each week in PDF and all text formats.

(00:20):
You can read it in a PDF format with our
original magazine slash newsletter style layout on your screen and
flip through the pages, or you can read a straightforward
all text format on your phone or tablet or laptop.
The back issues early in two thousand and two covered
the arrival of Scott Hall, Kevinash, and Holkogan to WWE
and all the controversy that came with them, plus my
cover story that broke the news on the planned launch

(00:43):
by Jerry and Jeff Jarrett of a promotion called TNA.
Also the early two thousand and two features are two
thousand and one Year in Review features, including ranking Pro
Wrestling's most influential powerbrokers and our Torch year end awards,
the year in Quotes, and the top fifth stories ranked
in order from the year two thousand and one. So

(01:04):
go VIP and dive into our back issues. We have
most of our back issues available as soon as you
sign up, with new back issues week by week from
the year two thousand and two, one at a time
throughout the year twenty twenty two. PW torch dot Com
slash go VIP. PW torch dot Com slash go VIP.
That's pwtorch dot Com. Slash go VIP for full information

(01:25):
and our sign up form. It's more than podcasts. It's
an unmatched library of wrestling history, spending more than three decades.
As soon as you sign up, with more issues added
throughout the year now, PW Torch and Speaker bring you

(01:51):
the Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast five years ago. This
week on the flag Ship, PW Torch VA pianist Todd
Martin joined me. We talked about tenampacted Wrestling's biggest annual
pay per view, Bound for Glory. Start to finish the
previous week's final hype for the Hell in a Cell
on SmackDown, the Helen of Self follow up on Raw,

(02:13):
the Big UFC pay per view the previous Saturday. Also
a review of aw Dynamite the awn NXT ratings comparison
a review of NXT's Halloween Hafeca USA Network and more
loaded show giving you a snapshot from five years ago
of what we were saying about all the happenings in wrestling.
And it is today's wait Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast Five
years Ago flag Ship Flashback for Wednesday, October twenty ninth,

(02:35):
twenty twenty five. This show originally dropped on October twenty ninth,
twenty twenty. Todd, my first question for you is how
was Bun for Gloria this year? Did it seem like
a major event for Impact and did you like the
booking choices I made in the match quality they delivered?

Speaker 2 (02:55):
Okay, no, and it was middle of the road. I
thought that it was a I thought it was kind
of a weird show, a little bit flat. I mean
part of the issue was, I think the match that
a lot of people were looking forward to on the
most on the show was the Gianna Prosso match with
Kylie Ray, and Kylie Ray wasn't there, so that I

(03:19):
don't think helped things. But overall, I mean that they
you know, it wasn't like it was a bad show,
but it did not feel like a promotion that has
a particular momentum right now.

Speaker 1 (03:30):
Yeah, well, let's let's just run through the show. They
it was tough, the atmosphere, I know, you know for
regular TV show. I sort of accepted with impact, but
it was weird with with a show the caliber abound
for Glory that nothing really extra was done to make
it pop as a as a as a big event,

(03:51):
so it felt kind of dry. But they opened with
the X Division title match TJP Chris Bay Trey micguil Wade.

Speaker 2 (03:58):
They did not open with the extuition.

Speaker 1 (04:00):
Was there a warm up mat?

Speaker 2 (04:01):
They opened with the Deaners and the Rascals. The Deaners
in the Rascals. Show some respect to the Deaners in
the Rascals.

Speaker 1 (04:09):
How was that?

Speaker 2 (04:10):
Ton It's okay. The Deaners one, which was a surprise
since the Rascals have been a pushed act and the
Deaners and more comedy figures. But yeah, it was just there.
The one one. Very very much positive though, and there's
there's a psychology here and in what they did, even
if they didn't intend it this way. They had Matt

(04:32):
Stryker on the pre show and I was like, oh God,
like you know, like, oh, this is going to be
a long, a long three hours, but then they removed
them from the main show, so so it was sort
of like, you know, like it was like found money.
It made me more optimistic once the show started.

Speaker 1 (04:48):
Audition by subtraction.

Speaker 2 (04:51):
Yes, although you when you tease you're gonna you're gonna
do something to people and then then you don't do it,
it's uh, it's always nice, you know, like, well, I want,
I want an analogy.

Speaker 1 (05:01):
I was I was thinking you might go somewhere that
might be bad, so I didn't have anything in mine.
I was just like bracing, all right. So then we
had the ex Division title match. Also in it Jordan
Grace and Willie Mack among those I also mentioned earlier.
Six Way Roger went on your your thoughts ton thirteen
minutes of high spots.

Speaker 2 (05:22):
Yeah, I mean, you'll never believe this way, But it
ended with Rahet Raju stealing the pen, so big surprise there.
Other the match is pretty good, although it did have
a good deal of a thing where like everybody sits
on the outside while a couple of people in the
ring due spots, so there's probab there's a little bit
more of that than I would have liked, but overall
I think the match was was was pretty good.

Speaker 1 (05:44):
Then how about the how about the call your Shot
Gauntlet match? Todd your thoughts on Rhino's victory here and
how that played out over nearly a half hour?

Speaker 2 (05:55):
Yeah, I mean it was. When you say it like that,
it doesn't show as it because for a half hour,
not a not a ton happened. It was more sort
of a series of entrances. But I mean it was Okay,
it wasn't It wasn't bad, but yeah, it uh, you know,
it's just a bunch of people coming out and they
didn't do terrible amount of note in the uh in

(06:18):
the ring. The three surprises of the match were Divari Hornswoggle,
and James Storm. I'm not sure if Storm was just
a one off deal, but he can be valuable if
they bring him in as a regular, so we'll see
if they have more planned for him. He's he's talented,
but he's sort of h He's made some mistakes behind
the scenes that have sort of I think stunted his growth,

(06:41):
both both in terms of hilm like maneuvering between companies
and uh also having sort of you know, wanting wanting
to have big plans and sometimes being frustrated with creative direction. Yeah,
I think that was. Oh yeah, I mean as far
as like what they did, and it was the idea
originally was that Heath was going to win the match
to earn the contracts for Heath and Rhino, But when

(07:03):
Heath got injured, it was kind of fortunate that they'd
set it up that either Heath or Rhino could win,
so they just switched to Rhino winning instead, which is
a pretty fortuitous, fortuitous turn of events for an injury
situation because oftentimes they you know, they don't have an
easy way to switch things up, and it leads to
someone working through an injury and bad stuff happening.

Speaker 1 (07:27):
So all right, then third match EC three and Moose
Moose the winner here. What do you think that?

Speaker 2 (07:37):
Yeah? That was? That was the fourth match, right, the
fourth match.

Speaker 1 (07:43):
This number of pre show matches with letters and main
card matches with numbers.

Speaker 2 (07:49):
Well, I still feel like if you can do that,
and it's still I think kind of hard to like
deny the existence of a match that existed.

Speaker 1 (07:56):
Like I'm just saying it didn't count as a number,
counted as a letter and number two, I don't want to.

Speaker 2 (08:01):
Say, be the eighth eighth match.

Speaker 1 (08:06):
I don't know what that means.

Speaker 2 (08:08):
The eighth match of the show, like the eighth Oh, I.

Speaker 1 (08:12):
See what that wasn't a joke?

Speaker 2 (08:13):
That was like, what would you call it at that point?

Speaker 1 (08:16):
Match a match, a pre show match, a pre show
match B, and then main show match one, Main show
match two, Main Show match three, or the third match
of the main show of the main show implied.

Speaker 2 (08:33):
Well, when you sound like that, you made it say
pretty easy.

Speaker 1 (08:35):
So I just know the matches are numbered starting with
the beginning of the pay portion, and if I have
to actually keep track of adding one to each of
these numbers, I just don't know how that's going to go.
Although it would be more efficient than you calling me
out every time, so I may have to adjust my
just my my stance here, you know.

Speaker 2 (08:55):
I actually it seems like a perfectly fine thing to
do in the context written report. But I mean usually
when we bring this up into the context of like
ignoring its existence right in this In this context, it's
more in uh, in terms of labeling verbally, which I
think is sort of a different deal than a written report.
But in any event, uh, yeah, I mean this was

(09:18):
we're done, Wade, there you go again. I thought, you know,
the idea here was that Moose wanted to this warehouse
with a bunch of people in EC three masks and attire,
and they had this fight where EAC three draws out
Moose's violence side, and at the end, Moose is going
to hit EAC three with the TNA belt and Easy

(09:40):
three is happy and encourages him because he wants Moose
to control his narrative because that's his catchphrase and UH.
And so Moose knocks out Easy three with a belt,
and the idea appears to be that like EC three
is like trying to bring out the best of of everyone,
and so this is going to be the catalyst for UH,

(10:03):
for Moose being a better version of of UH of Moose.
And we'll see how it turns out. I mean, I
think a lot of people for a while now have
been hoping for more from Moose than what you get
an impact, because he was you know, he's one of
their higher paid talents. You know, they signed him during
a time period when they UH, you know, they were

(10:24):
a stronger company and UH and Moose had more you know, well,
I don't know a bit more leverage, but he definitely
had than now, but he had he had leverage, and
so you know, it was expected to be like a
significant deal, but it hasn't really turned out to be.
So you know, I think the hope is maybe this
will be a way to elevate Moose and to you know,

(10:45):
to to signal the fans now he's going to be
a more prominent act on the show. And you know,
as I said, we'll see how that goes.

Speaker 1 (10:54):
Where would Moose fit in right now best among the
other most prominent options being New Japan A you n
X t or Ross Slash SmackDown to to be like,
where do you think he's the best fit for if
he does eventually move on.

Speaker 2 (11:09):
Well, there were issues with people in terms of, like,
you know, in terms of signing him. So I don't
know who would be for you know, for for stuff
that's unrelated to uh to to the wrestling, So I'm
not sure who would be interested in him from that standpoint.
But I mean, he seems more like a dead B
guy than than anywhere else. I mean, he's big, he's

(11:29):
got good size, he's got that NFL background. Those are
all things that to B likes and you know, he's
he's uh, he's got enough personality and athleticism that I think,
you know, I think he could he could do pretty
well there. So I mean I think that actually, you know,
taking into account that they don't tend to use people
as well as other companies, but if you just sort

(11:52):
of look at the U, you look at the raw package,
I think I think that would that that makes sense
in terms of what they like.

Speaker 1 (12:02):
Yeah, yeah, all right, Yeah, I think I you know,
I think AW would have a good would be a
good spot for him too, and I think it would
help them fill out part of their their diversity mission statement.
And you know, they could get behind somebody who has
some experience and some size in that athletic background, and

(12:22):
you know, you know, Jim rossould like to tout him too.
So anyway, Yeah, you can support us on Patreon and
get these shows with ads and plugs remove, the weight
Keller Prosing podcast, Weight Keller Prosing post shows, and the
PW Torch daily cast throughout the week with ads and
plugs remove, plus a few bonus VIP shows throughout the
month for just four dollars and ninety nine cents a month.

(12:45):
Check it out Patreon dot com slash pw torch vip.
That's patreon dot com slash pw torch vip and you
can also upgrade to other tiers and receive even more
benefits through Patreon. All right, Ken Schemrick, Eddy Edwards, Ken
Schemrick wins this one in twelvenutes your thoughts, Tom.

Speaker 2 (13:07):
This wasn't very good. Ken. Ken tried, Ken Ken always
tries at this stage, but and they did. One of
the things that was significant on the show was during
the pre show they had a Hall of Fame segment
for him where you know, they got a pretty you know,
solid group of people to you know, talk about him,
and they put him over, including the Rock, and it

(13:28):
was a nice little thing for him. So I'm sure
part of the decision to give him the win here
was attached to the fact they just put him in
the Hall of Fame. But yeah, the match wasn't wasn't
particularly good. And you, I'm sure you love the finish
because it h an a tribute to you. The lights
went out and Sammy Callahan distracted Eddie and and that

(13:49):
allowed Ken to hit the belly to belly and apply
the ankle lock. So the old, the Old Dark finish.

Speaker 1 (13:55):
Yeah, all right, MotorCity machine Guns, Anderson and I was
gonna say, Anderson and Cooper and that is nuts. Anderson
and Gallows.

Speaker 2 (14:06):
There's a marketing idea, yes.

Speaker 1 (14:10):
The North, And as Austin and bad Men folded, I
just froze and I was like, I know that's not right,
but what is it? Oh that's what it is. Oh
that's weird. And then I had a whole inner thought
dialogue going on. So anyway, the North wind this one
to become impact take Champs one about fifteen minutes. Your
thoughts on this match up.

Speaker 2 (14:25):
I thought it was pretty good, nothing special the North
or the Champions again. So the uh, the thing with
the Motor City machine Guns turned out to be a
short term thing, and I mean that's fine. I mean,
I don't know, I'm not sure why they put on
the Motor City machine guns in the first place. That
was a plan. But I think the North we're doing
well with the tag team titles, so I think having

(14:46):
them as the champions again is, you know, probably better
for the promotion than MotorCity machine Guns. And they can
presumably feud with Anderson and Cooper.

Speaker 1 (14:57):
All right, So then the women's match, you spoke of earlier,
so Young getting the victory in the title here in
fifteen minutes.

Speaker 2 (15:04):
Yeah, as mentioned, it was. You know, the match wasn't
very good, and I don't like the Sue Young gimmick.
I don't think it's a good fit for a match
with Parasso in particular, because Pross was just so different
in terms of what she's doing than Sue Young. But
and Parasa was doing while as champion as well, so
I disliked taking the title off her for Sue Young.

(15:26):
But you know, apparently Kylie Ray was in town and
just didn't didn't come to the event for personal reasons.
So Impact wasn't a tough spot as far as being
able to handle that. So it's you know, it's something
that I would fault them greatly for under other circumstances,
but you know, I'll give them something of a pass
for it given that.

Speaker 1 (15:48):
Yeah, all right, and then main event, Rich Swan becomes
new Impact World Champion. They went about twenty two minutes.
Your thoughts on on the match and the decision to
put the belt on Swan.

Speaker 2 (15:59):
Yeah, I thought it was good. I think other people
liked it better than I did, But it was a
it was a good match and you know, a little
a little bit slow towards the beginning, but it built well,
and uh yeah, we'll see how We'll see how what
Swan does. I mean, Swan is, Swan is talented. I
think what's working against him more than anything is just
the fact that he's been around for for quite a

(16:20):
while and has always been at a certain level. And
while I I think he, you know, he might be
capable of doing more, I'm not sure that fans really
sort of think of him in that light. And so,
you know, I think it's gonna be a you know,
a uh an effort to change those perceptions. And we'll
see how that how that goes?

Speaker 1 (16:42):
Yeah, yep, all right, So, uh anything else on on impact?

Speaker 2 (16:47):
Uh no, all right?

Speaker 1 (16:49):
How was he announcing that sing's fun?

Speaker 2 (16:52):
I don't think uh, I don't think Josh Matthews is great,
but he is. He's not a Matt striker, And uh
they bring it don Cows trying the during the pay
per views, and that helps because Doc Alis is very good.

Speaker 1 (17:06):
All right, let's pause and set the table. This is
the Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast for Thursday, October twenty ninth,
twoenty twenty. I'm wayde Keller, host of the program, joined
by PW Torch vipanalyst Martin. He would like to be
known as Martin from now on, formerly Todd Martin. I
don't agree with the decision. It was not an edict

(17:27):
that came down from me, but Todd would thinks it's
a trendy thing to do, so I'm sorry. Martin thinks
it's a trendy thing to do, so I don't think
I'll stick to it though, But anyway, thank you for
downloading the show, Thanks for streaming the show, Thanks for
joining us. As always here on the wayde Keller Pro
Wrestling Podcast. We have so much more to get to.
Just a quick note on social media. You can follow

(17:49):
our brand at PW Torch. You can follow me on
Twitter at the Wade Keller, and you can follow Todd
on Twitter at Todd Martin MMA. I'm sure he'll be
shortening that soon, so hope you follow us there, and
of course visit our website petew torch dot com for
the latest coverage of live TV shows, live pay per views,

(18:11):
breaking news, editorials, hits and missus, columns on all the
major TV shows, and so much more. That's pwtorch dot
com and of course you can search for our podcasts.
The Wadekeller post shows and podcasts are on two separate feeds.
Just search wad Keller and download or subscribe to the
Red brand and the Blue brand the post shows and podcasts.

(18:33):
This is the Blue Logo Show. Be sure your subscribing
to the Red Logo Show too, and also our pw
Torch Daily Cast line up a different show with different
hosts and a different theme every day of the week.
It's free. Just search Pete w Torch on your podcast
app and subscribe. All right, let's get back to more
conversation on Bound for Glory and then we'll get to

(18:55):
SmackDown Raw Dynamite, NXT's Halloween havoc, some UFC talk even
and more.

Speaker 3 (19:04):
Need an extra dose of positivity in your wrestling podcasts,
will come join me Alan frel Over in the Progress
Paradise at pterbo Torch VIP as we mask on the
bright side of wrestling and focus on some of the
great matches and shows from around the world, be it
the US, Japan, Europe, or Mexico. There's always a place

(19:24):
for wrestlings past in the Paradise too, and we've done
fun historical shows such as the We Love Liger series
celebrating the glorious career of Jusian Thunderliger and our eye
was there when shows where our guests will join me
to talk about a classic bout that they were in
attendance for. We love variety and you can expect lots
of it at the Prorest Paradise. Detailed pwof Torch VIP

(19:46):
subscription information and a list of all the VIP benefits
is available at pterwrew torch vipinfo dot com. And yes,
all VIP podcasts are compatible with popular podcast apps on
iPhone and Android devices, or you can stream them directly
from our ad free VIP mobile side. See you in
the Paradise.

Speaker 1 (20:13):
Let's let's shift to SmackDown from last Friday, the lead
up to Hell in a Cell Todd. They opened with
Kevin Owens and the KO Show. He talked about everybody
being in place, their contractual obligations over and now he's
on his new home. Just felt totally fresh and new.

(20:35):
So anyway, yeah, exciting, yes, yes, So anyway, we ended
up with Danny Bryan and his mission statement and and
Tick larn Rude and all that fun stuff. What do
you think?

Speaker 2 (20:47):
I didn't think it was very good. I hope the
script thing was pretty bad, and uh, these guys are
better than most. It's salvaging bad material. But I thought they,
you know, they weren't able to salvage as well as
they often do. As far as the Amaan tag, I
thought that was a good match to to start off
the wrestling component of the show.

Speaker 1 (21:08):
And then how about the opening match, Tod.

Speaker 2 (21:10):
No kidding, how about the open match?

Speaker 1 (21:13):
All right? So then it just had some storyline developments
leading to the the Otis court case. Let's let's let's
jump to that, Todd. What you what do you think
of the the courtroom scene with with JBL and Ron
Simmons and the cameos and the payoff at the end

(21:34):
of the outcome.

Speaker 2 (21:35):
I thought it was stupid in concept and stupid in execution.
And I think it was funny. I think it made sense. Honestly,
I was expecting even worse, giving W's sistory with skits
like this, But that doesn't make it good.

Speaker 1 (21:47):
Yeah, yeah, And do you think of it snows damaged
money in the bank or do you think fans just
compartmentalize and go, well, this is just a year they
decided to do this, and if they think even any
harder about it, they'd be like, well, rains came back,
they probably threw some things off, and hopefully they do
better next year, or does this kind of damage all
the time invested next time there's money the bank match,
and all the time you invest after there's a winner.

(22:07):
Because now I don't want to say precedent was said,
because it's not the only time, but they've they've done something,
They've they've messed around with a concept where it's not
a sure thing that the winner actually will cash in.

Speaker 2 (22:18):
I don't, I don't. I'm not concerned about like the
idea of somebody taking the money in the bank briefcase
along the way. I don't think that that investment is
the uh. The concern of the concern to me is
just that like it, you know, this is a very
sort of undercard feeling feud, and it's going from one
guy that wasn't particularly high on the card to another
guy who's even lower on the card, and it just

(22:40):
makes the the money in the bank briefcase feel like
a prelom deal. And I mean, I think interesting in
money in the bank is diminished in recent years anyway
because of the way it's been done, So I think
it's not in the greatest position right now, and I
don't think this is helping it any really. I mean,
I've i've I think I've said this before, but if

(23:02):
it were me, I'd be inclined to just abandon money
in the bank for a little while and then you know,
bring it back after you know, a two or three
year even longer hiatus, because it just feels like there
isn't a lot of juice in it right now, and
maybe if you removed it for a time period then
you could get some more juice in that. I feel
like that's the case of a number of their stipulations.

(23:22):
Like I you know, I think they'd be better off
and they're not going to do this, but if they
you know, if they dumped the hell in the cell
yearly pay per view, and they dumped the yearly TLC
pay per view, and they dumped the yearly money in
the bank pay per view and they just went back
to you know, pay per views that had some sort
of name but didn't have a theme, and then you

(23:42):
just sort of waited until there was a good chance,
you know, a good time to start bringing those things back,
and you could just sort of use that on a
you know, a judgment call sort of do it like
what TNA's doing, what TNA's doing, like what AW is
doing where they've you know, we talked about it the
other week where it sure fell like with Kingston and
Moxley that they that they just sort of were like, oh,

(24:05):
this seems to be working pretty well. Why don't we
just continue with this? And uh, it didn't. It didn't
seem it didn't seem like that was like a long
term plan. But they just sort of were reading the
tea leaves and you know, so they saved it a
little bit for uh, for later. So you could you
could do that where you sort of read how things
are going with certain feuds and say, hey, you know,

(24:27):
is this uh you know, does this fit Does this
fit helling to sell well? If some we do it?
If not, then no, does you know, does this person
does this character seem like someone that would work well
using uh, using the money in the bank idea? If so,
then maybe it's time to bring it back. And if
there it doesn't, if there's anyone that really fits particularly well,

(24:49):
then let's just holl it off so the next time
we use it, it'll be more impactful.

Speaker 1 (24:53):
Are there any past papery names that you miss that
you'd like them to bring back?

Speaker 4 (24:58):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (24:58):
I mean, I mean, I mean I miss all of them.
I have the one. The one that I missed the
most is, of course, roadblock, end of the road. If
that's lee was that? It was end of the line,
end of the line. Damn it? What what can you do?
I tried?

Speaker 1 (25:13):
How about cyber Sunday? I hear that's a trendy thing
right now, like letting fans be interactive.

Speaker 2 (25:19):
I mean interactivity is great, and I mean I think
the execution of of cyber Sunday was universally very strong.
So yeah, you know, I missed that myself.

Speaker 1 (25:30):
Are you four listeners of your podcasts getting to choose
the order of topics? Like should we have that level
of interactivity? Like they can choose what goes first, what
goes last?

Speaker 2 (25:40):
Way to the people, it's our podcast.

Speaker 1 (25:43):
Are you why do you feel about that for our podcast?
Like do you like that level of interactivity or do not?
Do you trust the fans to pike stipulations wrestling matches
but not the order of topics on your podcast, our podcast.

Speaker 2 (25:56):
I mean my answer to cyber Sunday may have been facetious.
I might not think that it's a great idea.

Speaker 1 (26:01):
Right, Okay, great balls of fire or insurrection? In a tournament?
Who advances.

Speaker 2 (26:07):
Great balls of Fire or insurrection? Geez, that's a tough one. Actually,
you know what, that's not a tough one. Insurrection is
a bad name, but great balls of Fire is even worse.
So yeah, insurrection wins by default.

Speaker 1 (26:21):
All right. Capital carnage or capital punishment.

Speaker 2 (26:25):
I think I think i'd I think i'd keep capital carnage.
Capital punishment sounds a little bit more cliche.

Speaker 1 (26:32):
And just like a little too real, too real. All right,
you did, We'll just do a couple more of these.
Over the edge or no.

Speaker 2 (26:40):
Way Out, No way out, We'll we'll keep We'll keep
no way out on account of over the edge having
the negative connotation.

Speaker 1 (26:48):
That was a that was a trick question. There was
a correct answer to that one, and you got it.
All right. Let's say it's a tough choice here, rock
Bottom or this two day in Texas.

Speaker 2 (27:03):
That's a good one. I like the idea of having
this Tuesday in Texas back and we just we just
run it on a Sunday exactly.

Speaker 1 (27:11):
You know, I could imagine XT doing that like with
you know, self aware irony, just like yep, this Tuesday
in Texas, this Wednesday night on USA Network.

Speaker 2 (27:19):
Yes, yes, this, no, no, no, just call it this Tuesday
and Texas and it'll take place in Florida from the
Performance Center on Wednesday. Yes. And what was the other one?

Speaker 1 (27:29):
The rock Bottom?

Speaker 2 (27:30):
Oh yeah, rock Bottom? That's even that's even better. Yeah,
just bring back the Rocks pay per view and uh no,
you don't bring back the rock just the pay per
view name. Yes, all right, rock Bottom? And uh you
know fans are like white, why do they do that?
If there is rock going to be there? And it's
like they never even mentioned it.

Speaker 1 (27:45):
Yeah, all right, that sidebar was fun. Back on track
here Bianca Bellair and Zealita Vega. Bel Air makes quick
work of Vega.

Speaker 2 (27:55):
Yes, that that happened.

Speaker 1 (27:58):
Are you fine with Vega in that role? You think
that is her role.

Speaker 2 (28:03):
About her being a manager, But I mean, if you're
going to have her in a match with Bianca bell A,
certainly her losing is better than be meaning Bianca bell Air.

Speaker 1 (28:10):
Yes, would you have liked there to be a distraction
finished to protect Vega. All Right, the freak against Shorty G.
I'm gonna call him Shorty G because it's relevant to
the progression this week of how things went. The Freak
destroys Shorty G, who, by the way, stepped up to
the challenge wanted to prove that he should have been drafted.

(28:32):
He said it was blatant disrespect, and he called out
the big man, and then he lost, and then he quit,
and then he cut a promo later explaining that he
was chad Gable or just Gable, chad Gable and he
cannot he does not want the lame gimmick. Shorty G.
What do you think of this? Too meta or a
good move or not worth the time?

Speaker 2 (28:54):
Where I on this, I didn't really think it was meta.
I mean, he just you know, I think if you're
just watching the show, you could understand that, you know,
the because I mean, he sold it like on the
idea of like not like they gave me this stupid
name and I'm done with the stupid name. Convincent man,
it was like, you know, I'm done trying to inspire
people that short people can survive, you know, I'm I'm

(29:15):
just out for myself now. So it was, you know,
it did fit into like the idea that this you know,
this guy actually did want to be called shorty G
and now he no longer wants to be called troty G.
Certainly I hated the name that they were calling him
there for a little while. I do, you know, given
that I do not expect them to do better with

(29:35):
him now that his name is changed, it does feel
like a little bit of a missed opportunity, and that
a missed opportunity that I've already like taken into account.
I as somebody that that thinks highly of Gable, I
would prefer them to dump the name as part of
a concerted effort to move him into a better position.

(29:57):
And given that I don't think that's going to happen here,
you know, it's you know it it feels less uh,
you know, less encouraging to uh to say, I'll.

Speaker 1 (30:08):
Push back a little on the meta thing, because he
did say he's done being a character who talks about
accepting who he is and who will and you'll be
just fine. He doesn't accept quote the shorty G crap,
He won't be the smiling punching bag, happy gol lucky
public service announcement anymore? Who are we kidding? I mean
it's it's it's in a gray zone. And that you
could make the case that's what he might say if

(30:30):
he just embraced the shorty g thing on his own
and volunteered for public service announcements and now he's done
with it. But I did feel like there was it
was meant to be a little not therapeutic. What's the
word I'm looking for? Uh?

Speaker 2 (30:44):
An idea?

Speaker 1 (30:46):
Well that's not helpful.

Speaker 2 (30:48):
Well, next time I'll just lie then.

Speaker 1 (30:50):
Well then i'd say what what what am I thinking of?
And you wouldn't come up with it? And then that
wouldn't work either. Oh, anyway, it'll come to me, like
in ten minutes. But I think it was it was
meant to soothe people who are upset with a gimmick
and and sort of be uh oh, there's one perfect word.
We now break into regularly scheduled programming to let you

(31:11):
know that word came to me later and that word
is cathartic. Now back to regularly scheduled programming anyway, uh,
and kind of get us acknowledge the mistake and help
move us past them admitting it was a mistake. Although,
like you said, if it's part of him just losing
into many I guess if you lose in two minutes

(31:31):
of Shorty G and then you go, this is enough
of this crap. I'm not Shorty G anymore. You are
giving people a reason to look at you with a
fresh set of eyes next time you're out there. The
key is is, you know, do they have an idea
for him to take advantage of.

Speaker 2 (31:44):
That's that's the expen point. Though, if you encourage people,
you only have so many times you can convince people
to view you a fresh set of eyes. You know,
it's like, you know, the the person with substance abuse
problems who says like, oh yeah, I've got that behind me,
and and they don't have it behind them, and you know,
then the next time, the next time, it's like the
boy of kriid Wolf, and you're less likely to get

(32:06):
people to believe you and support you.

Speaker 1 (32:10):
Yeah, let's see.

Speaker 2 (32:12):
And that's actually a good comparison with shortag Jay. It's
much like a substance of best problem.

Speaker 1 (32:18):
Thanks for downloading today's show. Take it to the next
level with a VIP membership get shows like this, the
weight Keller Prosing Podcast, Weightkeller Prosing Post Show, and the
pw Torch daily casts on our pw Torch VIP podcast
feed with ads and plugs removed from the shows for
a streamlined listening experience, and also hear the VIP exclusive
shows that I host with Rich Fan and Todd Martin,

(32:39):
Everything with Rich Fan and The Fix with Todd Martin
signature VIP series that you're missing out without a VIP membership,
So go vip here in twenty twenty two and enjoy
all the benefits, all the bonus content and the ad
free listening experience. Pw torch dot com slash go VIP

(33:01):
all right. So, uh, Sasha and Bailey their final angle
leading up to Hell in Ussel.

Speaker 2 (33:08):
I thought Sasha was unlikable again, which is a problem.
And you know, in all these TV segments she always
just seems like a jerk, which I don't think is
helpful for her babyface character.

Speaker 1 (33:18):
I thought it was a step in the right direction.
She was more assertive and aggressive as opposed to passive
and MOPy and like depressed that Bailey broke up with her.
But yeah, I mean, she's still not the person that
I imagined would be the obvious way to go with
her when she turned babyface.

Speaker 2 (33:35):
Yeah, and I didn't view the Mopinesses as much of
a problem as you did to begin with. So yeah, yeah, yeah,
all right.

Speaker 1 (33:43):
So Seth and Murphy one on one Rollins was this
one in seventeen minutes they put They gave this match
a lot of time.

Speaker 2 (33:49):
Your thoughts on it, Yeah, Yeah, I thought it was
a good match, and I thought the aftermath was was
compelling Grama with Ray and Dominic and all of them,
So yeah, I thought it was I thought it was effective.
I do think that, you know, if you want to
make Murphy an effective part of this whole thing, that

(34:09):
having him uh you know, loose out of the gate
against Rollins doesn't do him any favors. But it was
hard for me to imagine them putting over Murphy given
the way they use him. So it's hard to get
to worked up over that since it seemed like sort
of a foregone conclusion.

Speaker 1 (34:25):
One of the things that I don't like formatting wise
direction wise in a wrestling show is where I believe
the idea should be that the director is on the
side of the fans and the announcers are on the
side of the fans. They want to give you the
complete story. They're there to cover an event that's happening,
and they're going to do their best to cover everything
important that happens. And so when they cut away when
Aleah was checking on Murphy and ran Dominic riving heated

(34:47):
discussion and they just went backstage to a man knocking
on Roman Range's door for him and to talk. Like
to me, that felt manipulative. That was like, we are
part of a we are orchestrating the to leave a cliffhanger,
or we didn't have an exit plan or a conclusion
to how this was all going to play out, so
we're cutting away early, and that bothers me. I think

(35:08):
that you should write your way out of segments by
making sure that the camera and the directors stay on
it until there's nothing else happening. And so that was
what I think that happened like twice this last week
with WWB, and I just don't like that as a technique.
I don't know if other people are bothered by that,
but I just wanted to bring that up.

Speaker 2 (35:25):
Yeah, it's it's not at the top of my list
of w pet peeveskwing their their track record.

Speaker 1 (35:30):
Yeah, but it's like, I want to know what's going
on with lian And and Murphy. How you know? Is
are they gonna leave together? Is she gonna go back
to her family? Why are randominic arguing? And it's like
tune in next week for you know it. It's like
a soap opera where people, you know, accept soap operas
are meant to be cliffhangers. But wrestling promotion should stay
with the action and give you the stay with it
till the end.

Speaker 2 (35:49):
So what about if like, what about if somebody who
hates the cameraman is like goes to the side and
distracts the cameraman and that he isn't able to follow up?

Speaker 1 (35:59):
Don't give them ideas? Time mark for edit? All right?
So then we closed with Hayman and uh and Rains
and Jay. So your thoughts on the final hype for
the main the main the SmackDown made event at Helen So.

Speaker 2 (36:12):
I thought it was more really strong mic work from
Roman Reins. I mean, really, at this point it feels
like he doesn't even need Paul Haman, which is certainly
an encouraging development. Just a few weeks into this turn
and speaks to that's true, but I mean you can
tell he's uh he has a role behind the scenes

(36:34):
and making this thing good too, so he's not exactly superfluous.
But I mean, going into this thing, I mean, I
think a lot of people were thinking that having Hayman
talk for Roman Reigns would be a big component of
this thing. But you know, I think, well, either we
underestimated Roman Reigns based on the material they gave him

(36:55):
and his inability to uh take advantage of it in
the way that you would like, or he was just
much better suited as a heel promo than his babyface promo.
But either way, he's been He's been very effective in
this role, and I don't think he was terribly effective
speaking before. So that's a good thing. And adding Jimmy

(37:18):
to the next I thought was, you know, good for
the bill. Then it also, uh, you know anticipated what
was going to come on on Sunday as well.

Speaker 1 (37:28):
Is your understanding that Jay has to either submit to
Roman or he'll be ostracized and there's a cliffhanger of
what choice he makes because I didn't I don't know
if that if they meant for that to be a
commitment they made as a twist in the story that
will be paid off on tomorrow.

Speaker 2 (37:46):
Could you repeat that again.

Speaker 1 (37:47):
I got the impression on Friday that the the they
added a layer, Jay might win, or if Roman wins,
Jay has to either submit to Roman and admit he's
a tribal chief and then sort of do what Roman says,
or he will be ostracized from the family, and that
it's Jay's choice of what he does. Either he has

(38:09):
to accept his loss and submit to and admit and
verbalize you are the tribal chief, or he'll be ostracized
from the family. And I thought that was a good
added dimension, but it didn't come across on Talking Smack
with Hayman or at Helen a Cell with the way
the announcers talked about it as of talking a major
talking point. So I'm wondering if I read too much
into that, or they've changed their mind on it, or

(38:30):
if they just are going to pick that up on Friday.

Speaker 2 (38:33):
Gotcha, Yeah, I mean, I'm not sure in terms of
like what they're trying to do. But my reading, whether
this being whether this is what they were trying to
do or not, was that he has to acquiesce essentially,
or he's out.

Speaker 1 (38:47):
Yeah, so it is a choice of Jay, and we're
supposed to wonder if he will or won't.

Speaker 2 (38:52):
Well, I mean they didn't, they didn't make a big
drama of it, but yeah, I mean I think I
think that's going to be key to what happens next.

Speaker 1 (38:58):
Yeah. Yeah, I just think that's like a good cliffinger
for Friday. And I thought they would, like I thought,
you know, you would have the announcers on Sunday night going,
will Jay bow down to the tribal chief? Will he
admit and fall in line? Or will he be kicked
out of the family, because you know, Rain said very explicitly,
if you do not submit your lives, your children and
your children's children are all out. We will turn our

(39:20):
backs on you. Those are the consequences if he doesn't
fall in line and respect him for who he is.
So again, I don't know if it's meant to be
framed as Jay's choice or it's sort of a given
Jay will do it, but Roman's holding over his head.
You better do a good job with it or else.

Speaker 2 (39:34):
Yeah, I mean I think it's uh, yeah, we'll see.

Speaker 1 (39:37):
Yeah, yep, did you see Hamon get handed the note
on talking smack.

Speaker 2 (39:41):
By the way, did I see Hammy getting handed the note? No?

Speaker 1 (39:46):
What about because on talking smack? Because it was on
f S one and so they went right to talking smacks.
It might have it bigre oudends usual, although the leading
was awful compared to normal because they're on f S one.
But Hamon was the U uh, who's who's I have
Tayler Braxton? Is she the host of Talking Back? I
don't think it? Of asked Paul Hayman what he asked

(40:10):
him a question about Roman reigns and what's at steak
on Sunday for Roman? And Paul gave this, you know,
typical wordy Paul Haman answer where you're like, oh, he's
very lawyerly and and you know, full of bs or whatever.
And then all sudden Kaylat when Paul was done, look
panicked and was like stopped and paused and then said,
but really, what is at stake for Roman? And then

(40:32):
all of a sudden Hayman got handed a note on
a sheet of paper and he held it up and
Kayla was waiting for him, and you could the paper
was translucent, like you could see the writing and it
was and it said, per Vince explain explicitly what's at
stake for Roman. So mid show, Vince yelled at someone

(40:55):
to write a note to hand to Paul live on
the air while he's also yelling in Kayler Braxton's earpiece
to ask payment more explicitly to explain what's at stake
for Roman. And then Paul just went on and gave
like a three minute worthy answer that covered similar territory. Again,
it was very it was very weird, and they didn't
edit it off the network. They didn't seem to mind,
but they certainly Paul said, oh, that was a note

(41:15):
from Roman reigns telling me he doesn't like your questions, Kayla,
but you could tell Paul is like, oh crap, you know,
Vince's mad at me for something. What's this all about?
Don't sell it?

Speaker 2 (41:23):
So number one strange behavior. Yes, number two, congratulations to you,
because you've just motivated me to watch every programming more
than b has in quite some time.

Speaker 1 (41:34):
Yes, yep, so that about the don't twenty minute mark
of the show roughly, but anyway, Paul's out there for
quite a while, so yeah, yeah, it's it's worth watching.

Speaker 5 (41:49):
In twenty twelve, NXT transitioned into the developmental system and
ultimately the brand you see today. On the Torch VIP podcast,
NXT eight Years Back will be taking a weekly look
at this page in NXT's early history.

Speaker 4 (42:04):
Joined Kelly Wells and me Tom Stout from p WT
Talks NXT every Saturday as we go eight years back
to the day to track NXT's rising talents and why
they did or didn't work out exclusively for PW Torch
VIP members.

Speaker 1 (42:23):
So shifting to Shifting to Rob Time. The follow up
to Helen South, Drew mactar came out and addressed losing
the title to Randy Ortney. Seemed in pretty good spirits,
but he said, if you knew what was going on
in his head, you would understand that he's still very motivating.
The Miss and Morrison come out before things get too
far and irritate him, and that leads to him suggesting
a match with Miss and your thoughts on that time.

Speaker 2 (42:44):
I thought that Drew let Miss and Morrison talk for way, way,
way too long before beating them up. I mean, I
get the idea that.

Speaker 1 (42:52):
While listeners are they still feel that way. Sometimes here we.

Speaker 2 (42:55):
Go, Wait, people don't want me to beat you up.
The uh the wait, so.

Speaker 1 (43:04):
Are you just imagining this?

Speaker 2 (43:05):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (43:08):
If we could charge for that, that'd be like a
video pay per view of them, Alight.

Speaker 2 (43:13):
I thought it. I thought i'd uh get a reaction
from you because I thought the subtext of what you
were saying was the opposite. But that was what was
in near mind.

Speaker 1 (43:23):
He could have gone either way, and I was waiting
to see what you would say, and I was like,
we'll go with that. I mean, it's probably more true.
So I was like, I don't want to embarrass myself.

Speaker 2 (43:38):
Yeah, So I mean, I I you know, I get
the ideas mentioned that they that, well, he'll beat them
up in the end, so it's okay for him to
wait to beat them up. But I just just thought
that every secondary who stood there, allowing these annoying jackasses
to interrupt them right after he lost his title, just
made him look worse and worse, like, because I mean,
that's why I'm thinking watching this and like why are

(43:58):
you putting up with this? Like you know, you're you're speaking,
You're much higher than these people on the card. You know,
we're led to believe you would destroy them, and and
you're just standing there for nearly five minutes, just letting them,
you know, blather on in an annoying fashion. I thought
it did. Drew mcatire no favors in that regard. I

(44:22):
thought he should have just punted them in the face
immediately and they could have given that, you know that
five minutes of missing Morris into you know, to a
match or something.

Speaker 1 (44:32):
Yeah, all right. Agent Styles cut a promo about how
everyone on Raw must have missed him and he's two
and one Ross since his return, he's proven himself blah
blah blah, and talked about his new associate and then
took on Jeff Hardy in a uh because Survivor series
hype kicked in here, so a qualifying match to be
on on the Ross Survivor Series. Team Styles believes he

(44:52):
should just buy Default Beyond and be the captain. Steles
wins this one in ten minutes thanks to his new
quite tall bodyguard lost his name this week, distracting Jeff well,
not really distracting Jeff Hardy, but just sort of paralyzing
him with fear and awe, and Style's got the win.
Are your thoughts on this?

Speaker 2 (45:10):
I thought it was fine, all right.

Speaker 1 (45:13):
Uh, Tazawa dreg Lak against lu Jah Holl's Party.

Speaker 2 (45:16):
Any thoughts on that top, Yeah, I mean, this is
just a backdrop for your R truth comedy. Not my
favorite thing on the show.

Speaker 1 (45:25):
So how about the Firefly phone House?

Speaker 2 (45:27):
How about the Firefly on ass? I mean the Firefly
finances at this point, I mean, honestly, it just I
haven't liked those segments most of the time, but now
I'm just kind of bored with them. I feel like
I've you know, I've gotten what I'm going to get
from these segments, and you know, even I think they're
probably thinking, well, Alexa Bliss is there. That adds a
fresh coat of paint. But it just feels like these

(45:49):
things have run their course. I'm just kind of bored
of them at this point.

Speaker 1 (45:55):
Anytime you're watching ww E Raw or SmackDown or aw
Dynamite in particular, send us an email if you've got
thoughts on the show or a topic you want us
to address or a question for us. Wade Keller Podcast
at pwtorch dot com, Wadkeller Podcast at petewtorch dot com.
If there's anything else going on in pro wrestling that
you want us to address on our main podcast during

(46:16):
our mailbank segments. That same email applies Wadekeller podcast at
PW toorch dot com. We invite that interaction. Let us
know what you think of what we're saying, and let
us know what you want us to talk about and
ask us specific questions. Wadekeller podcast at pw torch dot com.

(46:37):
All right, up next, Charlie CRUs So. We asked Keith
Lee how he's bouncing back after last week. Any thoughts
on the presentation of Lee now on the main roster
with this added to to the evidence.

Speaker 2 (46:48):
I didn't think this was particularly notable one way or another,
but I thought him, you know, needing a distraction finished
to beat Elias was not great for Keith Lee or
a great sign of their view of Keith Leay at
this point in time.

Speaker 1 (47:05):
Yeah, although he is on the roster Vivor series team,
so you know it makes up for it a little bit.
It'd be bad if he's right now, but I agree
clean win would be good. All right, Let's see Cruz
who interviewed Orton and asked if he's concerned about Bliss
showing up or excuse me, the fiend showing up during
a moment of bliss in, Orton said he wasn't concerned

(47:25):
at all, and the only ones who should be concerned
are those who cross him. In terms of Orton winning
the championship to go to I know they had him
come out later, but to have the first time we
see him be in this context didn't like to me.
The person who wins the championship the first time you
see them with that belt, you sort of want to
celebrate it or make it seem like a big deal.

(47:46):
This felt a little anti climactic to talk to him
even before he came out to the ring for the
major interview. It's a small thing, but it just kind
of jumped out of me, like, wait a second, there's
really big news and they're asking about the fiend as
opposed to his thoughts on becoming champion.

Speaker 2 (47:58):
Again, I agree. Yeah, I didn't think of that when
I was watching it, but I very much agree with
the principal. I think it's it's a more important point
for somebody that hasn't held the title before I suppose
to somebody has held the title eighty thousand times. But
I think I think that's a you know, a general
principle that there really isn't any good justification to avoid

(48:20):
doing so, Yeah, I think I think as a universal rule,
you know, when the first time you see the guy
after winning the title, make a bigger deal of.

Speaker 1 (48:26):
It all right, then hurt business retribution eight man elimination
match goes fourteen minutes her business win BIDQ when Ali
hits that work with a chair when it was late
in the match and down to them. Yeah, are your
thoughts on this time?

Speaker 2 (48:40):
Just a waste of time pretending to be it? She
doesn't make a distraction finish thus awful and the DQ
at the end just emphasized your soccer for investing your
time in the whole thing. So yeah, just a big
shitty waste of time.

Speaker 1 (48:54):
Any thoughts on Angel Garza his presentation here on Raw
with Mandy and Dana and then and not Ni Jack's
and Shana Basler two in the dynamic between them the
whole segment here, your thoughts?

Speaker 2 (49:07):
It just seemed like more of the same, honestly.

Speaker 1 (49:09):
Yeah. Is Basler in a terrible position compared to what
you had hoped and imagine based on her NXT work?
Or is it salvageable or is she are you like
surprisingly pleased that she's showing this different side to where
herself effectively and it can work. Where are you on that?

Speaker 2 (49:28):
So this particular week, I didn't like the bickering with
Shana and I I thought they both came across like children.
But in general, so I mean, this is this is
the sort of I think this is a good example
of something I'll talk about from the time of the
time as a general rule, which is some people and
you used you using the word salvage it well sort

(49:52):
of triggered the point, which is that I think a
lot of people sort of think of the damn the
charity that does the characters in terms of, well, can
you make them sort of a semi effective character on
the show given what's happened, And I think with Shana,
can they make her like, you know, a you know,

(50:15):
a fairly significant character on the show? Sure, I don't.
I don't think that that is, uh is out of
the balance of what they can do. But it's like
that I don't think that's like a you know, like
a good measure of how they've done with her. Because
Shana Besa was somebody that had a lot of potentium
and you walked watched her in in NXT and she

(50:38):
was a really key part of that show in driving
your interest forward and getting you engaged in a week
to week level and what was going on with her,
and you know, the maximum ability to make her feel
like an important character, somebody that you want to tune
in to see, somebody that that's a difference maker. I
think that is you know, that's past and they do

(51:01):
that with a lot of characters where like you can,
you know, you can sort of savage them to the
point where like they're you know, the crowd you know,
you know recognizes them as like a you know, a
significant enough character on the show. But to me, like
when you've got somebody that is capable of much more,
you should, you know, critique how they're used on, you know,

(51:23):
by those standards rather than you know, than the standards
of what you sort of you know, what do you
get out of most start to be characters, which is,
you know, not a lot of impact. I mean, look
look at for example, like Roman Reigns. I mean Roman Reigns,
I mean they're doing a very good job with the
booking of him on like a lot of things on
the show. But a big part of why Roman reigns

(51:44):
feels more impactful, and why he can make a difference
with people and get people more engaged in what's going
on is they protected him from the very beginning, and
they treat him as a big deal from the very beginning,
and even when he wasn't doing that well, they still
acted like he was somebody that was important. And there's
there's no reason they can't do that with lots of
characters on the show, even if they're not all, you know,
perpetually the main event.

Speaker 1 (52:07):
All right, So then we had drums anything about the
payoff to that build up? No, yeah, all right, let's
see New Day come out with Oh yeah, this is
where they just established the whole kind of survisories lineup
with the street profits in then Oscar revealed she faced
Sasha Banks and also Ortn't against Rains and then lastly

(52:30):
against Sammy Zaye. So a lot of Champ versus Champ
matches at surviviceries. Any thoughts on the decision to go
all in with that, including or Rans in particular.

Speaker 2 (52:40):
I mean, they've been doing that for a few years.
I don't think it really matters with the tag champs
or some of the other lower level people as far
as Roman Reigns and Randy orn Go, I mean they can.
I mean they may very well just you know, work
their way out of that. I'm not really good you
finish have somebody interfere. But I mean that is one

(53:03):
that I think is you know, is easier than other ones.
I mean, I think you can just put Roman Reigns over.
I don't think that's a big deal. I mean, Orton
has built in credibility from you know, from years and years,
and I don't think there's anyone at this point that's thinking, well, like, oh,
the Raw champion lost to the SmackDown champion. That must
mean that that, you know, Raw is the secondary show.

(53:25):
So I'm gonna stop watching Raw. So I mean to me,
I just I think if if I'm doing the match,
and I don't think I would have made the match,
But if I am in the match, I just put
over Roman Rains.

Speaker 1 (53:38):
Did that match being announced changed the way you looked
at Orton beating Drew on Sunday? And has anything else
since our roundtable Sunday shape how you view going with
Orton is supposed to keeping the belt and Drew.

Speaker 2 (53:50):
Nothing's coming to mind as far as like things changing
my viewpoint. I mean, the you could argue the idea
that well, you know, it'll prevents you from doing Roman
reigns versus Drew McIntyre and saving that for later. But
I mean, look, they don't have to do that match, right.
You could have Drew McIntyre retain the title and then

(54:10):
just have Drew and Roman do separate things on the
show and not wrestle each other. There's no reason oughts
to do that.

Speaker 6 (54:21):
Searching for more great pro wrestling talk, then join me
Jason Powell, host of the three weekly Pro Wrestling Boom Podcast.
Each week you'll hear the latest news and analysis for
me and my team at pro wrestling dot Net along
with other pro wrestling media members. Plus, the Pro Wrestling
Boom Podcast features long form interviews with notable names in
the pro wrestling industry. Subscribeing iTunes, Ditcher, Downcast, and all

(54:43):
your favorite secondary apps, or visit us directly at PW
boom dot com. Once again, that's PW boom dot com,
all right.

Speaker 1 (54:57):
So, then the qualifying match lot of Paint Royce across
Lacy Evans Uh qualifier for the fatal four waighty term
of the final member. If team were on the women's
side of things. Any thoughts on on that, including Adam
Pearson Pat bucketting a stand center ring together to make
the announcement.

Speaker 2 (55:14):
Yeah, I mean it's you know, it was it was
sort of a drawing out of of the uh of
the announcement and then you know, sending up the lawna
thing which feels more like just sort of designed to
just continue the uh, the gag with Lana getting beat
up then and put through the table than anything else.

Speaker 1 (55:36):
Do you have an idea what the endgame is there?

Speaker 2 (55:39):
Amuse themselves?

Speaker 1 (55:40):
Yeah, so no win game? Then all right, Seamus and
Matt Riddle go at it for ten minutes. Your thoughts
on that, Riddle?

Speaker 2 (55:47):
Wade? Riddle? What say you said? Matt Riddle? Uh? Oh,
I have you not heard the news? I mean that
was my gag at the beginning.

Speaker 1 (55:55):
Yeah, yeah, okay, I just thought I called them the
wrong name.

Speaker 2 (55:58):
So gotcha. I mean this may shock you way, but
I'm not a big fan of putting Shamus over over Riddle,
although I mean who cares really, I mean, Riddle has
already been ruined, only took a few months, so I
mean it's you know, it's not worth getting too upset over.
But given how much more potential I think there is
in in Riddle than Seamus in twenty twenty, it does

(56:21):
feel does feel like awfully silly thing to.

Speaker 1 (56:24):
Do since it's brought up. What do you think of
just riddle in the dropping of the first name?

Speaker 2 (56:32):
I think it's very stupid, not that I mean like, well, yeah,
I think I think dropping somebody's first name randomly for uh,
you know, no apparent reason. And when you do this
like three times a year, it's just, you know, just
it's crazy behavior.

Speaker 1 (56:50):
It's yeah, I'm trying to think, like what the rationale is.

Speaker 2 (56:55):
Yeah, I mean, clearly, Vince himself and nobody else has
this weird thing about first names for certain people that
has only recently developed. And every once in a while
he got on a kick and decided that he doesn't
like somebody's first name, and uh will change it for
a little while and then oftentimes just go right back
to it later. It's uh, it's you know, it's just

(57:19):
strange behavior of a strange person.

Speaker 1 (57:21):
Yeah, that's that is good. All right. Then we had
the moment of bliss of Randy. Your thoughts on on
how this all played out, including Drew coming out to
beat him up afterwards right near the end.

Speaker 2 (57:31):
Yeah, I mean, it's just a laying out of this uh,
this three way feud. I thought the way that they
did it was fine, you know, the Fiend and Drew
and uh and Orton, and I mean, the the issue
is going to be how you book a finish to this,
because I mean, I look at this thing, and you know, Drew,
I don't think she should be losing to Orton again

(57:53):
or losing at this point. You want to protect him
after he lost the title, and he's the one that
you want to protect the most in general. And then
you know, the Fiend is like this supernatural evil character,
so they don't like to have him lose. And Orton
just won the title. I don't think they want to
take the title off him. So it's another it's another
few that they've set up where I don't I don't

(58:13):
know that they have any idea of how to how
to get out of it.

Speaker 1 (58:17):
Watching of the psychology of of Drew just sort of
charging the ring to attack Orton unprovoked when Drew's established
at the top of the show. Oh Randy, Yeah, he
won fair and Sperre's better man. That night, but I'm
determined to win the title back to just put it,
you know, summarize his his the vibe he gave off,
and then it's like sort of unprovoked, he just goes

(58:37):
out and attacks Orton. No, you can say it's not
unprovoked because Orton attacked all those legends and there should
still be a grudge there. It's not like all is
forgiven because Orton won a title in sl But the
tone of Drew's promo earlier wasn't I need to get
revenge for something? And he just sort of arbitrarily went
out there and attacked Orton. I didn't get it.

Speaker 2 (58:55):
Yeah, I mean there, I guess there is an inconsistency
that I wasn't really thinking about that. I mean, I
I mean maybe they thought that they didn't want to
telegraph it too much. I don't think it's like a
huge deal either way, But yeah, I mean I guess
that is an inconsistency, Like what do you.

Speaker 1 (59:15):
Think his his character's internal rationalization is for attacking Randy
after Randy beat him clean in a segment that doesn't
involve him and Randy didn't provoke him.

Speaker 2 (59:22):
Well, like you said, I mean, Orange's been doing all
sorts of nasty shit to all sorts of people for
for months, and he's tried to pull every you know,
everything under the book on Drew McIntyre. So I certainly
have no problem whatsoever with the idea that, uh, that
Drew McIntyre would want to attack Randy Orton at this stage,
but the you know, that's a separate deal. Then the

(59:44):
point you bring up, which is the seeming inconsistency between
what he said earlier and then his actions here.

Speaker 1 (59:51):
Yeah, yeah, all right, anything else from Raw? No, all right,
You don't have to wait for the way Keller Prog
Wrestling post show to find out what I thought of
Monday Night Raw and SmackDown. Each week, you can check
out my reports that are updated live throughout Raw and
SmackDown at pwtorch dot com. My written report will tell

(01:00:15):
you what's happening in detail in case you missed the show,
and it will also analyze key segments and give my
random thoughts quips on what I am watching as it airs.
So check it out every Monday night and Tuesday night
at pwtorch dot com. That also applies to wwepayperviews. I
cover those live at pw torch dot com with a
detailed written report with star ratings, and of course you

(01:00:37):
can find other TV reports from other contributors to pw
torch such as nxt roh Impact Wrestling, and more. Check
it out pwtorch dot com your first stop for TV
and pay per view written reports. Let's talk about USC

(01:01:02):
from last Saturday Night two fifty four Kabebe Gai Chee
Big main Event. Kabebe gets the win here in round two.
I don't do you want to hit the other card
first or talk about the main event?

Speaker 2 (01:01:14):
I mean Habib, I mean had another great performance in
the main event. I mean I thought Gaigee fought a
little bit too, shook of Habib's takedowns, and he was
more reactive than he usually is, which you know, when
you start to see that early in a fight, it's
like a real warning sign. I mean that that happens,
you know, I've seen that so many times over the

(01:01:34):
years where you have a you know, a fighter and
you're sort of thinking that they that they have a
good shot of winning the fight, and then they come
out and they're just not fighting like they usually do
and it's not like, you know, it's not like that's
you know, that's like that's an accident. I mean the
reason why they're often unable to do that is because

(01:01:54):
their opponent presents problems that other opponents that they were
able to implement that style against didn't pose. And you
know the issue here is Gates clearly was very concerned
about his takedowns, which we saw why when Abib bid
get the takedowns because he was, you know, uh able
to you know, really dominate on the ground and so

(01:02:15):
you know that that worked into the striking. He wasn't
you know, throwing the light kicks as often as he
as he often does. He wasn't walking Habib down like
he usually does his opponents, and uh, you know, it's
it reminded me of, you know, of how people would
often fight very differently against Anders and so and they
would against other fighters because they were just so uh

(01:02:37):
I don't know if intimidates the word, but so cautious
of the UH, of the strengths that Anderson brought to
the table, and Habib was able to take advantage of
that ended a lot of good strikes in the UH.
In the stand up because of the fact that Gechi
was uh was was tentative and and Habib got a
takedown late in the first but didn't have enough time

(01:02:59):
to lock and an arm bar attempt, and then the
second got taked down earlier. And from there, I mean
that was pretty much curtains. I mean, he very quickly
got the full mount and uh, you know, super select
getting them out. And then from there it was academic,
I mean, got the triangle from out, rolled over and
he actually tapped a bunch of times which the ref
somehow missed, and then ye and then went out pretty quickly,

(01:03:21):
which is impressive since the triangle can often be you know,
slower moving than other jokes, but on this case. And
then we got the emotional scene after the fight with
Abib and uh, you know, talking about retirement and announcing
his retirement truly thinking about his uh, his his father
so he uh yeah, he's uh twenty nine to zero

(01:03:41):
at thirty two, and talked about not wanting to fight
again with his without his father and giving his word
that he won't fight again. And I'm perpetually skeptical of
retirements and MMA and pro wrestling, just because pretty much
everybody eventually comes out of retirement and there are reasons
to think would be he might return his age, the

(01:04:03):
raw emotions he has right now, the fact he's been
fighting and competing his whole life, but just psychologically, he
seems about as strong a a candidate to stay retired
as anyone I can think of, because he has such
mental determination and such strong convictions, and I can at
leastly easily imagine him not fighting again. And if he doesn't,

(01:04:25):
I think it'll be like this legendary thing because of
the record, the circumstances of his retirement with his father's death,
and you know, he certainly has a great argument for
the best lightweight of all time with his level of dominance.
And we got some questions in the mail back about him,
you know, his claim to being overall best fighter of
all time, which has been a you know, discussion point

(01:04:47):
as well. But I mean, regardless, he's got a very impressive,
a very impressive resume. CO feature on the fight was
was Robert Whittaker and Jared Cannoneer, and Whittaker's hands were
the difference, as he you know, he was just getting
the you know, the first shot at and very consistently

(01:05:09):
throughout the uh throughout the fight. As far as his
boxing landing good jobs getting the uh the punches off
first and uh boxing got pretty good and rock Canny
in the third round of the head kick. But even
though I thought that Whittaker was getting the better of
the fight consistently, Cannoneer had something going forward throughout the

(01:05:32):
fight that I thought made things interesting and uh and
exciting because I thought it added drama to it, which
is that Kennyer was landing these big leg kicks the
entire time, just these thunning leg kicks, and you know Whittaker,
You know Whittaker, Uh, you know, at one point his
leg looked like you needed to get a test for
lime disease or something. I mean, it was in bad

(01:05:55):
shape with these these kicks at different levels. And so
I think depending on how you those, you could have
given can near potentially the first and second rounds. I didn't,
and it didn't sound like pretty much anybody did. It
was more potentially giving Canny a one round. But I
thought that added some drama to the fight that wouldn't
have been that dramatic otherwise if not for the kicks.

(01:06:17):
Alexander Volkov had a nice performance against Well Whittaker. He
was outstriking Harris throughout and hurt Harris with the body
shot and in the first and then he heard him
again with the body shown in the second and followed
that one up with a barrage of strikes and got
the stoppage. And Volkov's an underrated fighter. He's very good.

(01:06:39):
They were hyping the hell out of this guy, Phil
Hawes and his UFC debut after Dana White's Contender series,
and I mean he backed it up this night. I
mean he's swarm with these big punches, knocked out Jacob
mal Kohane Malcolm Malcolm pretty quick. I don't know how
much you can expect from a thirty one year old
prospect when the nine to two record against the lower
level opposition, but I mean he surely looked great on

(01:07:01):
Saturday and people were talking him up a lot. Lauren
Murphy she had won three frights in a row and
was looking for a title shot and she advanced her
cause here because got a you know, fourth straight win.
And uh Aliliya Chakarova was landing some good shots on
on Murphy in the first but second Murphy takes her down,
gets a real naked choke and submits her. So you know,

(01:07:24):
maybe Murphy will get the title shot next, although I
think a lot of people wouldn't consider that much of
a reward since Valentina chiv Chaniko I think would be
a massive, massive favor in that fight, like one of
the longer favorites you're ever going to see in a
UFC title fight. Magamed Uncle Leev and Joan J. Kuleba
fought the first time earlier this year, and in that

(01:07:45):
fight Uncle Aev was landing some good shots when the
referee stapped in stepped in. Kudalaiba was still totally with it.
So they did a rematch here and Kudababa got what
he wanted last time. This time, so unc Leayev drops
them with a straight punch. Kudalva was clearly done, but
the referee didn't stop it, and so Uncle Av just

(01:08:05):
kept landing more punches until Kuda was completely unconscious and
Uh after one more punch after that, the referee finally
stepped in, so got early stop, which last time late stoppage.
This time, Stephan Struve was in a clinch with tay
To Ivasa because of course Stephan Struf can't keep distance

(01:08:26):
and UH two of Vasa rock Struve in UH in
this clinch towards the end of the first round. He
just kept firing until Stuve went down and the fight
was stopped. So Tuivasa earned himself a spot back in
the UFC. Alice Kaboolaver decided to go for a takedown
on Chaft cut rock went off, He clinched, put him
in the cage, really worked on the legs, and then

(01:08:46):
right as he's about to get rockmanoff down, rockmanof grabs
a guillotine choke and forces Ela Air to tap. Wah wah.
I've been watching Miranda Maverick for years because I watched
the Invicta shows, and in fact, I've seen every one
of her fights because her whole career has been in Evicta.
And she made her UFC debut on Saturday, and she
did well. I mean, she was beating up Yanna Jorjiou

(01:09:09):
on the feet, cut her open with an elbow, and
after the first round the fight was stopped due to
cuts and the opener. Joel Olive Joel Alvarez went for
guillotine on Alexander Yakovlev didn't get it, so transition to
an arm bar and got the tap of that one.
So that was UFC this weekend. Habib may not have
been the only big retirement of the month because Anderi

(01:09:30):
Silva has said his fight this Saturday may be his
final fight too. He's thirteen years older than Habib, so
it's a lot easier to imagine. But the way he's
been talking about it has been kind of weird, so
I'm not even sure if he's retiring or not. But
he said he was, and then he's I mean, he
hasn't like totally walked it back, but it feels like
he's halfway walked it back, so we'll see.

Speaker 1 (01:09:52):
I think the announcers framed it after that. There was
a really good video on the pay per view, you know,
building up his fight, and they, if I remember, they
framed it with a little bit of a hedge, kind
of like you're saying, it seems like it's going to
be it, but they're not just guaranteeing, like it was
more like this could be your last chance to see
him or something like that, if I remember, right.

Speaker 2 (01:10:11):
Yeah, yeah, Because I mean I think they were thinking
it more explicitly earlier, but not so much now. He's
finding your eye Hall, who's I mean, the Ia Hall
has had a unique career and that he is an
elite fighter, but he gets to fight big name fighters
all the time, and he has this resume full of
star opponents that he usually loses. Show. It's actually more

(01:10:32):
like a Japanese thing, where like they sort of know
that he's like a popular name fighter and they put
him in fights where he's you know, it seems like
he's a little bit overmatched because you know, they he's
sort of a name at a certain level. He's he
is much younger and more powerful, and Silva does. We'll
see how Silva does. And uh CO feature is is

(01:10:54):
going to be thug nasty Bryce Mitchell against Andre Feely,
which is a fun matchup to wild fighters, Mitchell more
ground guy, feeling more of a striker. I definitely favorite
Mitchell on that one. And Kevin Holland is back for
a start fighting three months, which is pretty crazy pace.
He fights Makwood Morodov, Greg Hardy, the controversial former football

(01:11:14):
stars back against Maurice Screen and the always dangerous Bobby
Green is back as well against Thiago Moise. So good card.
I like the card this weekend.

Speaker 7 (01:11:29):
I'm Kelly Wells, host of the seven Star podcast. The
New ongoing Torch show covering the world of New Japan
pro wrestling. We'll drop new episodes as major shows and
noteworthy events.

Speaker 2 (01:11:39):
Dictate and I'm Chris Lansdell. Join us as we cover
the ever changing landscape of New Japan as they navigate
an era with no.

Speaker 8 (01:11:47):
Lack of talent.

Speaker 2 (01:11:48):
But I really need to create some news staves. You
can stream the new seven Stop podcast now from Pro
Wrestling Talk.

Speaker 1 (01:12:07):
What going back to the UFC main event, what's next
for Gatchee and is he compromised it all as being
at the top of the division losing to Kabibe or
or is COULDI a legend and he put up enough
of a fight that he.

Speaker 2 (01:12:23):
Can Hobib Hobby.

Speaker 1 (01:12:26):
I go back and forth, but they they go back
and forth too.

Speaker 2 (01:12:29):
So well was his name go back and forth?

Speaker 1 (01:12:33):
Well? This is like the Jose Jose thing where I
feel like, as soon as I think I get it
right by correcting it based on the announcers and play
by play people and ring announcer, whohould know better then I?
Then I have to revert again.

Speaker 2 (01:12:43):
So yeah, yeah, it's certainly not a consistency because Bruce
Bafer calls him kobebe but a man John Annak always
gets it right, hobib I will.

Speaker 1 (01:12:52):
Side with Anniky no offense, Bruce, but I definitely got
job for you, all right, he'llby it's probably somewhere in
between with a pronunciation of cage that we just aren't
used to, but probably closer to the silent k that
that's my story of saying to it. So anyway, what
does this do for Gaichee in terms of like because

(01:13:13):
he didn't seem all that like distraught over losing. He's
probably thinking of his payday and that he survived. But
I would think he liked sport well yeah, yeah, but
you could be a good sport, but also seemed personally
devastated that this was the fight of your life and
you didn't win, and now you want to ever have
a chance to prove you the best and no matter
what you do the rest of your career, you'll always

(01:13:34):
be the guy who was unable to meet him, but
maybe the best of the rest. But as John Morrison
Falter McIntyre thinking of it in that like, well I
was and he should have been, but like you're back,
like John Morrison told Drew, you know, second place He
doesn't have.

Speaker 2 (01:13:48):
The devastated look of it a loser usually does. Maybe
he didn't recognize he was quite the loser, that he
is that loser.

Speaker 1 (01:13:58):
Anyway. So I mean, okay, So if he's not thinking that,
I was thinking that. Are you thinking that that he's
a loser? No, Morrison said second place is good for
a lot of people, the best to do.

Speaker 2 (01:14:09):
No, I was not thinking that. I mean, just think
Gaechee is a competitor. I mean, he's that guy's not
a you know, I mean he if I don't, you know,
I don't draw that big of a conclusion from somebody
like not like reacting a certain way. I mean he
got beat. I mean he's uh, you know, he's only
been finished you know, in in fights. He's never you know,

(01:14:32):
he's never lost a decision. He's you know, you have
to get him out to uh to to beat him
and uh and got him out and he uh, you know,
he showed respect to the guy. So I don't, I don't.
I don't know as far as like where they're going though,
I mean things are are pretty wide open with uh.

(01:14:52):
If Habeb stays tired, and certainly I expect them to
be tired for a while, so I think things are
going to be open for a while. And you know,
obviously Connor is Uh is lingering, and they're talking about
Connor and Uh and Dustin Tooier. So if Connor fights
Dustin Poier on one side, then you've got another fight
on the other side to sort of set up a
bracket of sorts for the whole thing. And you know,

(01:15:15):
given that Gechee beat Tony Ferguson pretty darn decisively, people
are speculating about that as a fight, But I don't know.
I mean, I feel like you wouldn't want to go
back to that immediately. So maybe it'll be Tony Ferguson
against somebody else, and the winner of Tony fergus against
somebody else would meet the winner of Connor and and
Uh and Tooier, and you just you go from there.

Speaker 1 (01:15:38):
Yeah. Yeah, And I wasn't so, I mean, I was
not hung up on Gaigie's response as much as just
you know, I don't know, like when Stan Hanson just
left a w A and they handed Nick Bockwin to
the belt and he started defending, and I'm like, well, yeah,
but you didn't really win in this case, you know,
Geechee lost. So it does feel like for a little

(01:15:59):
a little while people are of fighting for the consolation prize.
When the champer tires with the belt, what can you
do about it? Nothing but gay Chee just saying, you know,
I'm ready to fight it and take a beating. Let's
you know, you seemed like he's ready to fight this weekend,
you know, if they would let him. So that's that's
my thing. It's just sort of the impact of having
it's clear, you know, the best guy isn't around, and
now everyone's kind of fighting for second place. At least

(01:16:20):
that's how I see it. Even if that's you know,
not what other people are thinking or dwelling, then.

Speaker 2 (01:16:26):
Oh no, I think that's certainly the case. And yeah,
I mean that's a that's an issue that's uh that's
always rising up. And I mean that's that's what's going
on at light heavyweight too, where John Jones left the
division and uh and you know the people that are
left around were you know, we we're left to uh
to fight amongst themselves for that top slot. So yeah,
I mean that's that's always a tricky position and uh,

(01:16:49):
you know, we'll see how long it takes to uh
to make people forget about about uh BB. But I
think it's probably gonna be easier in lightweight than some divisions,
just because there's so much talent and depth in the
division that even if people feel like the people on
top would lose to Habib, I think there's still a
recognition there are a lot of really good fighters there. Yeah,

(01:17:10):
and particularly if Connor is able to get going, because
I mean, Connor is the biggest star regardless of of
who the best fighter is. So I don't think that
there are going to be a lot of people that
are gonna pooh pooh Connor fights because well Connor is
as good as as Habib.

Speaker 1 (01:17:24):
Yeah, yeah, no, definitely. And you know the way to
eradicate that is somebody comes along who never lost to
Habib and they beat everybody else, and then you go,
what what if what if he were still around as
opposed to well, he clearly was defined as a notch
below him. Now you have the mystery of well maybe
he isn't And you know that's just a generational thing
or a new chapter in the division. But but you're right,

(01:17:46):
I mean there's definitely fights people want to see in
the meantime, regardless art anything else from the MMA world.

Speaker 2 (01:17:53):
No, well, I mean, I guess since you brought it
out there. Spell to our card tonight, Yeah with gay
Guard Musasi and uh Douglas Slimo, which is a good fight,
both very good fighters. So I'm looking forward to that one.
And and also you know what, uh, Jake Hager is
fighting too that that should be starting pretty soon, I
think because he's on the uh he's on the undercard
and uh, I'm not sure about the h the television portion,

(01:18:16):
whether it's at eight or ten pm. I would assume
eight pm. But if that's the case, then yeah, Hagar
would be uh, Hagar be fighting.

Speaker 1 (01:18:24):
In the next tower or so so and maybe in
Match A or Match B.

Speaker 2 (01:18:29):
No, no, it would be more like Match J or something.

Speaker 1 (01:18:33):
Yeah, give yourself a reason to look forward to going
to the mailbox each week with a PW Torch newsletter
paper copy. Subscription details at PW torch dot com slash
paper copy. It's twelve pages every week, packed with my
TV reports, along with exclusive features such as my cover
story on the top story of the week, our pay

(01:18:54):
per view roundtable reviews from the Torch staff, exclusive feature
length columns from Greg Parks, rich Fan, Sean Radikin, Alan Coonahan,
and Zach Haydorn. Torch Talk transcripts, the latest news and more.
PW Torch dot Com slash paper Copy. Take a break
from screen time and settle in every week with a
megadosa wrestling news and analysis with a Pro Wrestling Torch

(01:19:16):
newsletter paper copy edition. In the year twenty twenty two,
you can get a full year of home delivery for
just ninety nine dollars or try us four an eight
week trial subscription PW Torch dot Com slash paper Copy.
All right, let's shift to AW. So last night AW

(01:19:41):
presents the semi finals of the Okay the AEW Elimination
No The aw Eliminate AW Title Eliminator Tournament, and they
opened with a Hangman pay and Wardlow a little little
promo ahead of time to set up the match with

(01:20:03):
a little tension between MGF and Wardlow. MGF preposterously saying
he'll be champion if they'll becomes champion because he works
for him uh and he's his property. Warlow off camera,
made a face and then unconvincingly said yeah, you got
it to MGF when he looked at him. And then
we had Sammy Gavara coming up to MGF kind of
cutting basically a baby face promo, MGFF calling him a
little buddy and a big guys. A lot of moving

(01:20:25):
parts they are leading into the match, but ultimately, uh,
Page wins in eleven minutes to advance over Wardlow. Any
thoughts on all that time?

Speaker 2 (01:20:33):
That is a good match. I think that Wardlow's had
some better matches of vite, but that's uh, you know,
the certainly was you know, certainly was another good one.
So he's been on a roll. And as far as
the the MGF thing, I mean, it was just you know,
a little teased to tease a little bit of dissension
between MGFF and Ward though, which they do from time

(01:20:53):
to time. And uh, also to maybe try to give
a little bit of doubt as to what's going to
happen in the match, because I think people work expecting
hangman Page to win, which he was, and uh, yeah,
it's fine, all right.

Speaker 1 (01:21:07):
Then on mox Ley Vignette didn't take up a ton
of time, but still it was Moxley doing some great work.

Speaker 2 (01:21:13):
I thought, Yeah, I mean, another another good problem by Moxley.
I mean, I I don't I don't recall him doing
anything in the aw that I didn't like.

Speaker 1 (01:21:24):
Then Eddie Kingston does some mic work, Bunny Is reintroduced
a butcher in the blade after running up QT Marshall's
credit card, which is the way to do it, by
the way, everybody, and then Eddie Waite Eddie beat metside
l in seven minutes.

Speaker 2 (01:21:38):
Your thoughts on on all that ways just joking. People
don't let him be a bad influence on you. Yeah,
I mean I thought the match with Kingston and and
uh and uh. I wanted to say Evan Born Mett
Sidel was was fine. I mean, I think there's value
to getting Kingston a win given that he hasn't won
that much on the television show. So I think that

(01:22:00):
seemed to be the idea later on with with Spears too,
is that they've given him like eight billion wins in
a row on Dark. But given that nobody, you know,
I was gonna say nobody watches Dark, but that's clearly
not true, given the Dark is less viewed than Dynamite.
It's sort of having him get one on Dynamite sort

(01:22:21):
of enhances for the people. That enhances the perception for
people that just watch dynamite, that he's a fighter. That's
a fighter, a ar wrestler that's on the if not
on the rise, at least one with momentum art.

Speaker 1 (01:22:36):
Then your thoughts on ex Caliber splitscreen interview in person
with young Bucks and remotely with FTR and Tolly FTR
and totally walk out on the interview because they didn't
like Leslie Stoll's questions, and Matt explains to explains why
they've been super kicking innocent bystanders because they needed to
get their edge back. He doesn't like the way he feels,
but it is the way he feels, and now they
have their edge back. Your thoughts on all that.

Speaker 2 (01:22:56):
It took me way too long and I had to
figure out whether you met when you call Nix caliber
less stroll And it really wasn't. It wasn't like it
was that complex. It was pretty straightforward.

Speaker 1 (01:23:05):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:23:06):
It sure felt like the Bucks were babyfaces again, which
you know, it didn't really work because they've been so
unlikable for a while.

Speaker 1 (01:23:12):
Now, and unlikable in that segment, I mean, Nick looked
like the kid in the principal's office leaning back in
the sharegun whatever, and Matt's trying to justify super kicking
Tony Shavanni because he needed to get his edge back,
which like you, who are you a super kick Tony Schavanni?
To get your edge back? Find another way to get
your edge back other than kicking a sixty year old guy,
And they're trying to justify it a few weeks later.

(01:23:33):
It's stupid. I mean, it's it's ridiculous booking, it's ridiculous
character development.

Speaker 2 (01:23:37):
I will say this, I thought they were less unlikeable
in this segment they were in recent weeks.

Speaker 1 (01:23:43):
Oh thought they're in the same category. I thought there
is unlikable and act as we've had in wrestling since
like Gender mahaal oh No.

Speaker 2 (01:23:49):
I definitely can't adorse that. There have been so many
completely unlike walks and professional wrestling.

Speaker 1 (01:23:57):
Name two that come to mind. Between Gender and the
Bux who we're just genuinely more contemptible in the way
that they carried themselves and acted.

Speaker 2 (01:24:04):
Well. There's miss and John Morrison for for starters, But
I mean there are so many characters on There's nothing
with you whatsoever about Elias. He just comes out there
and is annoying every week and never has good matches.

Speaker 1 (01:24:16):
Mcaffee might give the Bucks a run for their money
right now of current acts.

Speaker 2 (01:24:19):
No, McAfee. McAfee's at least like an entertaining heel, Like
I mean, the Bucks, but they're no, they no, they're not.
The Bucks are just they're like grating, they're kind of
sad like they're they're I think, sort of pathetic characters,
which is part of the part of the problem there,
whereas mgaffine McAfee I think is just a good heel.

(01:24:41):
I wouldn't put him in the category of of you know,
miss and Morrison and Elias, and there's a bunch of
those people and there to be like, I mean, you
could probably think of which ones I think of that
in that light, because I mean, you know, I trash
their segments every week. There's a whole bunch of them.

Speaker 1 (01:24:55):
Well, right, And I guess I'm saying that the Bucks
are miscast as Babyface is trying to justify contemptible behavior,
and that the vibe they give off is as much
effective genuine heal act it should be, even though it's
not apparently as pat McAfee is. Like my my case

(01:25:15):
and I being a little facetious or trying to make
a point is pot McAfee's trying to be healed, and
he knows he's a heal and he's an effective heel.
And the Bucks, if we set aside the preposterous notion
that they're actually babyfaces and that's how they we're supposed
to look at them, are equally contemptible and pricks. But
somehow they think we're supposed to see them as baby face.
Is that sort of I guess that doesn't work with

(01:25:38):
with my gender thing. So I'm but the McAfee. That's
I'm explaining the McAfee thing, which is yeah, you.

Speaker 2 (01:25:43):
Got me, that makes sense, Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:25:47):
So anyway, I just I am not encouraged that the
master plan for the Bucks going into full gear was well,
we'll superkick a referee. Well, Elex my Vez, I get
that turned a baby face, but then they super kicked
Tony Shavanni and when they went heel again, and now
they're trying to explain it because they needed to get
their edge. I just think that's low end character development.

(01:26:08):
I'm not impressed by that at all.

Speaker 2 (01:26:10):
No, it's not been good, and I don't get any
sense that they've got a plan to get out of
this so that's a problem too.

Speaker 1 (01:26:18):
Yeah, all right, So town Hall Shavanni and Dasha at
a table and various rest are stepping up to the
mic like in a town hall Jericho MGFF responding with
other inner circle members reacting your thoughts on all this.

Speaker 2 (01:26:35):
I thought it was a shitty segment. I thought it
was a do to B sports entertainment segment where nobody
feels like a real person talking, and what's happened is
happening is just there to make you laugh, which completely
detaches you from emotional investment in the story. You're just
supposed to view it like a comedy sketch show, only
it's not a very good version of it. And you

(01:26:56):
know you're thinking about you know, the only way to
think about what's happening is from a meta standpoint, because
it's so obviously just happening to set up jokes as
opposed to actual characters interacting in a semi believable way.
And I mean, pro wrestling comedy to me should be extemporaneous.
I mean to what I talk about that w B
all the time, like characters playing off each other in
amusing ways, and when you have a saying with that

(01:27:19):
is clearly mapped out from point A to point B
to point C to point D to point E to
point F, point G to point H with the jokes.
It just I just don't think it's conducive to progressing
storytelling because it's always obvious and it feels fake aus
and you can't suspend your disbelief. And if you're not
suspending your disbelief, you inherently don't care about what happens

(01:27:40):
to the characters because you know they're just characters. There's
no way to watch that, so I'm going to not
just view them as just fake characters. So I thought
it was a shitty segment. As for the MGF Jericho stuff,
it sure feels like what they're you know, what they're
going to do is what I've been speculating for a while,
which is Hagar or Teez in Santana turn on Jericho
to join MJF. And then Sammy acts like he didn't

(01:28:02):
know it was coming, and then there's some drama about
whether he's going to stick with his buddy Jericho or
whether he's gonna end up turning on Jericho as well.
So that's what I'm expecting from this thing.

Speaker 1 (01:28:12):
On full gear so that was a lot quickly. Where
where do you think it does ultimately settle in terms
of Team Slash Faction MGF, Team Slash Faction, Babyface, Jericho,
including Warlow, and if he fits into that or just
splits off on his own.

Speaker 2 (01:28:30):
I think it's Jericho against all of them. I think
Sammy teases that he's going to side with with Jericho,
but then he joins the rest of them, So it's
Jericho against all of them, and he has to find
allies with with other baby Faces. Wardlow eventually obviously is
going to turn Babyface. But if it's part of this program,
I think it comes later in this program, as opposed

(01:28:51):
early in this program. But I didn't even thought about that.
I kind of I kind of like that dynamic of
like Wordlow becoming more sympathetic towards Jericho. Is this you know,
like group of heels comes in, and you know they
could play it up by having like word They'll make
it clear that he doesn't really like these other guys
around him, but he's sort of putting up with them,

(01:29:13):
and then eventually he turns on them. Because I so, yeah,
I mean, now that you bring it up, I hadn't
really thought about in the context of this feud, but
I kind of like in the late stages of Jericho
versus MJF breaking off word though on the other side.

Speaker 1 (01:29:31):
Yeah, yep, all right, So we move it out number
two with Cody versus Orange Cassidy, a T and T
tunnel match. Your thoughts on how this played out with
the You're worried about dark order interfering, so you put
them at Ringside as Lumberjackson, then they interfere. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:29:46):
I've largely defended AW when they've done non clean finishes
because they almost always seem to me like they're part
of a story, as opposed to b where most of
the time it just feels like they're choosing the cheapest
way they can out of providing a finish to a
match that they advertised but didn't want to deliver. And
this one sure felt like the DoD it be finish

(01:30:07):
where it just felt like, you know, it was they
set up the whole construction just to get out of
so they could advertise Orange Castide against Cody while not
giving anything resembling a decent finish to it. So this
was I thought pretty unsatisfying, you know. And and yes,

(01:30:30):
they're going to do a you know, a match with
Orange and Uh and uh Silver, but it you know,
it feels totally obvious that Orange will win, and it
just feels like that's just a little, you know, a
little sidebar to tie up this finish to get out of,
you know, a finish to to Orange castiy and uh.

Speaker 1 (01:30:50):
And Cody also was annoyed or confused, well confused and
therefore annoyed by Cody being cocky the push ups and
aren't scolding him, no, stay focused, don't do that, don't
show about, But then aren't interfering to help Cody win,
and they're playing it up as if Cody didn't know
what happened. And you know, the way the bucks are

(01:31:10):
being portrayed and some other things that aw has done
shakes my confidence that I should just have faith that
this is part of a master plan that really will
make sense, and that there are people putting putting spots
in matches just to get sort of this this superfluous
in the moment reaction that doesn't really fit in logically
by the time everything plays out. And I don't I
think that's incongruent. Tevarn't saying don't show about, stay focused

(01:31:33):
a babyface guy trying to get a Cody who's get
a little cocky back on track, But then aren't just
needlessly interferes in a match where you're not You haven't
established Orange would win unless aren't helped. So I don't
get it. Is there is there an explanation that I'm
missing that comes to mind.

Speaker 2 (01:31:52):
I mean, I think that they're you know, they're presently babyfaces,
but you can see characteristics of both of them that
are unlikable, and those aren't necessarily the same negative characteristics,
but you're seeing them leak out in different ways in
the path to eventually turning heel. So I didn't have
a problem with it from that standpoint. I agree that

(01:32:12):
like it's I can see being frustrated with it if
you want a more straight line in a change of
direction character wise in terms of a heel turn. But
to me, I'm fine with the you know, with a
messier heel turn as long as it's clear in the
big picture, and this one, you know, feels clear enough

(01:32:33):
in the big picture, where there's a lot of things
that we like about Cody and Arn, but there's also
these warning signs of the you know, of the arrogance
of the willingness to cheat that are going to manifest
themselves more over time. I'm I'm totally cool with that.
I also, in case you haven't noticed, tend to to

(01:32:55):
give Cody the benefit of the doubt on character work.

Speaker 1 (01:32:59):
Yeah, and I I think that's as good of an
explanation as there is. I don't know if, as you're
telling the story, sending what feels like to me contradictory
and congruent signals from two an act of Arn and
Cody within the same match is leading people in the
direction you want as efficiently and effectively as can be done,

(01:33:22):
even if in the end you can retroactively explain well
show voting and cheating are in two different categories, and
they're both meant to be hints of turning heel and
Arn was Arn was a babyface proponent for one, but
then a heel in the other. And then they're trying
to protect Cody from knowing interference happened while Arn interferes
instead of being okay with it. I mean, I get
you can justify it, you did a good job, but

(01:33:42):
I don't. I think I don't think it's the best
approach to take of all the options out there.

Speaker 2 (01:33:47):
Life isn't efficient and neat. I mean, life is a
messy and you know, people are are you know, are
mixed up with positive characteristics and negative characteristics. And I
think one thing that it's been true of B for
for a while that sometimes works to their benefit over
the years, and in fact sometimes it's worked greatly to

(01:34:08):
their benefit over the years, but I think it's working
against them now is the you know, the linear nature
of stories that they tell, where it's very clear on
certain things how they're going from point A to point B.
There isn't a lot of subtly to it, and they
make it very clear you understand exactly where you are
on this little path. And I think AW would benefit

(01:34:32):
and everyone would benefit given that that is what B
has been doing. And I think it, you know, it
can work against them and and people sort of have
become accustomed that in a negative way is telling stories
that there are are messier because even if everything doesn't
connect well, it has more of a real feel if

(01:34:53):
it doesn't feel like everything happens for the sake of
a clearly delineated story. You know, same thing with pro
even if things are a little bit confusing in a promo.
If it feels like people are actually talking and there's
a little bit of like messiness here and there, that
that is better because it has more of a real
feel and you know, to give like an example on

(01:35:14):
the other on the other end, if you do like
a story where two people are breaking up and you
start off one week and they get to an argument
for the first time, and then the next week you
make it a point in their match, they get to
an argument, and the next week they get in an
argument during their match, and the next week they get
an argument very match, and then the week after that
they break up. That is very linear. That's very easy.

(01:35:36):
There's nothing inconsistent or confusing about that. But it also
feels very forced, It feels very processed. It feels very neat.
Whereas if you tell a story and you know, I
recognize that what you're saying is is is pointing to
a higher level of turbulence in about what I'm about
to describe. But if you instead have a deal where

(01:35:56):
two people are breaking up and they have you know,
they have words, and the next week everything seems fine,
and the week after that they have some sort of issue,
and then the three weeks after that things seem fine,
and then they have words a week after that. That
isn't that isn't as neat, it isn't as ordered, And
you can say, like, why do they seem fine now
if they were arguing last week? But that's that feels more,

(01:36:20):
you know, in line with nature. You don't always see
like everything mapped down in things when people are having
issues or when a story is developing. And I think
I think having that, you know, that sense of turbulence
can be a good thing in storytelling when your competition
has everything so very orderly and micromanaged.

Speaker 1 (01:36:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (01:36:45):
Yeah, I'm Kelly Wells, host of PWT Talks NXT, the
longest running NXT podcast Anywhere. Join me along with Nate Lindberg,
Bruce Lee, Hazelwood, and special guests, live every Tuesday night,
just minutes after NXT, where we cover the good, the bad,

(01:37:07):
and the ugly on the way to becoming a star
in WWE. Check us out live on YouTube or stream
later wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 1 (01:37:25):
Alex Maravez approached best Friends for an interview and they
had a mirro and Kipt showed up with the gift
wrapped box and pretended they forgave them, and then they
attacked them and said, you're not forgiven. Any thoughts on
the continuation of this and an update on your thoughts
on how marro is being presented.

Speaker 2 (01:37:40):
I called that one way. I watched that and I said,
I don't think they're actually forgiving them when I was
right about.

Speaker 1 (01:37:45):
Wow, I thought the same thing Todd or two for two.

Speaker 2 (01:37:48):
Wow, we're both very perceptive.

Speaker 1 (01:37:52):
Yeah, it just basically yeah, all right, Serena Deep and
legit Laila hirsh Deep ones this one.

Speaker 2 (01:37:58):
I want to fold more special. Few didn't figure it
out and I did.

Speaker 1 (01:38:01):
Yes, Yeah, So, Deeven Hirshy, Your thoughts on the women's
match goes eight minutes.

Speaker 2 (01:38:08):
I thought it was fine. I mean Hersh's Hirsh is talented.
I'm glad that they're giving her a chance here. And
to me, I mean, I I you know, I probably
would have bought her in an even more uh, I
guess sort of a way that makes you know, put
her over at the beginning before having her lose matches.
And she's she's I think she's definitely capable of of

(01:38:30):
doing even better than she did last night.

Speaker 1 (01:38:32):
All right, then, Sean Spears wins squash with Tully. I like,
I like throwing in quick squash matches every once in
a while to give somebody a win on on TV
who might be part of an angle, and you want
to see them as winners and care about and get
over their finisher and get over the ring enters and
their personality. So I thought this was good use of
like ninety seconds of TV time. Yeah, yeah, all right,

(01:38:54):
And then it was main event time Kenny Omega versus
Penton Junior semi Finals. They told a story that I
thought was sort of sloppy, which is, well, Ray Phoenix
is injured, so he gave pent To the title shot.
And I'm like, yes, that how it works, Like you
get if you get injured, you get to choose to
replaces you in the tournament. I would have rather had

(01:39:16):
a w like, you know, be part of the process
and explain, you know. They proposed a to B management
management look at the other options, and because of Penta's
performance and the tournament and that he had qualified for it,
they gave him another chance and it Omega agreed something
to make it seem a little more sports.

Speaker 2 (01:39:29):
Like, yeah, I agree, particularly given like that's while it's undesirable.
That is what they often do, and tournaments, particularly like
in ma is if you know, if you have you know,
a tournament match and one person wins but is unable
to continue, then the the loser of the match advances
with you know, the idea being that they survived the

(01:39:50):
match and are able to continue in the person who
won is unable to continue. So you didn't really even
have to explain much at all, and I think it
would have been better than than what they did.

Speaker 1 (01:40:00):
Yep. All right, So for the match itself, Kenny wins.
This one goes seventeen minutes. Your thoughts on the match
and just the continuation of Kenny's persona revealing itself.

Speaker 2 (01:40:12):
Yeah, it was a great match, a nice close to
the show and you know, kind of interested developing, developing
into a more more straightforward he all the time.

Speaker 1 (01:40:22):
Do you see this as a successful heel top act
for Kenny that they're building towards. Do you do like
this as the use of him?

Speaker 2 (01:40:30):
So far, so good? I mean I think it'll I
think it'll work. I mean, they've it's much more of
a star presentation now and his matches have been really
good and I think once he goes full fledged, he
which he's not all the way there yet, I think
I think it'll be even better. So yeah, I'm I'm
you know, I certainly recognize being skeptical of it, given

(01:40:54):
that Omega stuff in AW is not very good to
this point. But yeah, I mean I think that I
think that the the turn that's going to go. Well.

Speaker 1 (01:41:01):
Yeah, I'm just ready for them to get there.

Speaker 4 (01:41:05):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:41:06):
It just feels like, you know, for over a year
we've been like, just wait, just what You're gonna love
Kenny when you finally see him and he really he
asserts himself, and I just I want to make sure
on Dynamite and full gear that that happens. I don't
want to be talking about this this sophisticated three D
chess slow build for three months from now with him.

Speaker 2 (01:41:24):
It's only in two weeks. I mean, I don't see
any reason not to expect that he'll h It'll be
even more clear after full gear. I mean that feels
like the you know, the turning point.

Speaker 1 (01:41:35):
Yeah, I just it feels like AW has not been
that they played long ball with some things where it
seemed like it would have been serviceable to just kind
of get to it after other pay per views and
certain things with Hangman Page is dragged, the buck situation,
a lot of mixed signals with Cody. It's like a
lot of that's going on with the top people, and

(01:41:56):
my favorite parts of Dynamite are when they just get
to it. You know, we know who Darby Allen is,
we know who Ricky Starks is, we know who Lance
Archer is. Obviously, we know who John Moxley is. There's
just things that are working. And it's not to say
I don't like doing what they're doing with Cody if
it's part of a plan. I just don't want long
stretches of are you decoding what we're doing because there's

(01:42:16):
a long, long plan here. Just let people reveal who
they are and get to it and don't overdo it
on you know, Oh, are we being ironic? Are we
self aware? Aren't we? Is this a red herring or not?
Here's contradictory signals because we're being sophisticated, and I just yeah,
I'm just I'm more skeptical because of the tracker could

(01:42:36):
have aw so far, but I'm not ruling out this
will be very satisfying next next Wednesday and next weekend.

Speaker 2 (01:42:43):
I prefer long term storytelling, so I think I think
having things develop over time is better than in most
instances and just going to them. But I can understand
your concern, particularly in the case of aw because with
a lot of sort of the longer storylines that they've told,

(01:43:05):
they've gotten lost along the way. So I mean that
that's that's a concern. But you know, like I said,
I mean, the the Omega thing, I don't feel like
it's been particularly slow building. I mean, they, you know,
they they have moved to him being a a you know,
a relatively straightforward, arrogant heel for a for two weeks

(01:43:28):
and it, you know, it seems like, you know it trure,
seems like the uh, you know, the thing will be
fully developed in in uh in the space of a month.
And that's I think a perfectly fine timeline, assuming that
they don't get sidetracked as they have in the past.

Speaker 1 (01:43:42):
Yeah, And that's my and that's my concern. And I've
just got a little baggage because of their history and
just spending a year getting there with Kenny two with him,
I think he could have been a more trust blade
trust had he been a better version of something for
the last year leading up to the last two weeks
of an apparent heel turn. Then I also would have

(01:44:04):
more faith and more patients. And I think we spent
a year ago, and when is this guy gonna seem
like he's invested other than when he's out there just
having a good match in trying to be something that
people can sort of grasp as opposed to just playing
to people who who are worshiping at his altar for
what he has done coming into aw already anything else
on Dynamite todd No, all right, we're about to go

(01:44:30):
to a commercial break. Why listen to commercial breaks when
you can go vip and experience our shows with the
ads and plugs removed. Pw torch dot com slash go vip.
That's PW torch dot com slash go vip for full details,
or go to Patreon Patreon dot com slash PW Torch
vip ratestart as low as four dollars in ninety nine
cents to remove the ads and plugs through Patreon. Full

(01:44:51):
VIP membership starts at nine dollars in ninety nine cents
to treat yourself to a streamlined ad and plug free
listening experience with a VIP or Patreon member. Let's jump
over to NXT Halloween Havoc, a good number for AW
excuse me, for NXT in the ratings had to head

(01:45:15):
eight hundred and seventy six thousand four NXT Halloween Havoc,
up two hundred thirty thousand over last week's number, and
a W also up from last week, but quite a
bit behind NXT, So just kind of a win win
for both shows. I think less competition on cable certainly
played into it. But a one hundred thousand viewership lead

(01:45:36):
roughly for NXT over a W which hasn't happened for
quite a while.

Speaker 2 (01:45:40):
Yeah, it makes sense. I mean they advertised Halloween Havoc well,
I thought that they pulled out a lot of stops
to give it a special feel and to make it
feel unique, and I thought they had one of their
best shows in quite some time. So I'm not surprised
that they that they did well for it and good
for the and you like you like to see quality

(01:46:03):
programming rewarded with UH, you know, with with viewership, and
I'm a big believer with that that over time, you know,
quality is going to UH is going to pay off,
and you know, I thought, uh, I thought a nixt
He did a good job with that show and rewarded
for it.

Speaker 1 (01:46:18):
So let's get to the matches. Damian Priest Johnny Gargano
open up after a little bit of Halloween havoc theme
uh stuff in the intro, and we have a North
American title change, Gargana winning this one in twenty four minutes.
Your thoughts on the match quality and the finish and
the decision to switch the belt.

Speaker 2 (01:46:36):
I thought the match quality was good. I thought the
finish was good. I thought the decision to change about
was was good. I mean, they used they used a
lot of their of gimmicks in the brawl, but it
didn't feel cheesy to me. I thought they were able
to maintain an intensity to the brawl even with Even
with that, and I'm happy to see the title back

(01:46:56):
on Gargano. I think he fits that role of of
champion better than Damian Priest. So yeah, a good start
to the show.

Speaker 1 (01:47:06):
All right. Then let's see they did a bit throughout
the show with William Regal and a stammering nervous Cameron
Grimes over his his gimmick. What what'd you think of Cameron.
Where are you on Cameron Grimes in the way that
he's been framed heading into Halloween havoc, in the way
that they ended up playing out his match.

Speaker 2 (01:47:27):
I feel like you asked, we have Cameron Grimes in
general E free week, I don't.

Speaker 1 (01:47:30):
I don't like two out of seven, but out of
seven no, no, definitely not that maybe during his first
five weeks in a row, but I've toned down. But
the reason I ask is this seems like a in
either an perhaps an amplification or a cartoonization to a
new level of him based on his interaction with Regal

(01:47:51):
and home mister Regal and being scared and stuff. So
I felt like this is a little bit, you know,
it's a relevant question to ask.

Speaker 2 (01:47:59):
Yeah, I think it's a relevant question to ask, and
there was there was I think more to speak of
it of it this week.

Speaker 1 (01:48:08):
I would draw my question ask it too often.

Speaker 2 (01:48:12):
The Haunted House of Tarror match. I think I probably
would have hated if not for Cameron Grimes, because I mean,
you can have general reservations, and I certainly do with
the Cameron Grimes portrayal turning him into an undercard geek

(01:48:32):
that you can't really take seriously. But I just thought
he was really funny and then Haunted House of Tarror Match,
I mean when he goes in there and you know,
the idiot is just like advertising like where he is
at every point, you know, like the you know, really
stupid character in the horror movie where he's like getting
scared and then acting like he isn't getting scared when

(01:48:55):
he's like, you know, like excited for the you know,
for the you know, for the zombie in the shower,
which is obviously like a bad idea. I just thought
he was really funny with his mannerisms and is talking
his way through this, so I thought it salvaged the
the segment for me, I mean the first part anyway.

(01:49:15):
I thought when they got back to the performance center
and uh, and they had to do they were doing
it in the ring then, like when you're mixing in
all that goofiness with the ring, it it felt cheesier
to me, and you didn't have as much of Camon
Grindt's talking. But yeah, I thought I thought he was
very amusing throughout this whole thing. I thought it was, Uh,

(01:49:37):
it was the strength of the segment, even if you
know you can have the reservations with what it does
for for his career.

Speaker 1 (01:49:45):
How about Dexter Loomis in this segment. Did you like
the way he played his role and was it a
good fit for this kind of man?

Speaker 2 (01:49:51):
I mean, he's just extra lunis. I mean there there'sn't
a lot of like, uh variation to it. He just
walks around with that you know, menacing stare and uh
and attacks, you know, attacks people from time to time.
I thought he was I thought he was fine at
being extra loanless.

Speaker 1 (01:50:07):
All right, good, all right, let's go back to Pat
McAfee and his promo and then the return of Pete
Dunn and the the return and turn of Pete done
your thoughts on that?

Speaker 2 (01:50:19):
Yeah? I thought it was a strong segment. I thought
really good mic work from McAfee. I didn't think he
spelled out the story in an entirely clear manner, but
his mannerisms were great, and he speaks with confidence, and
I thought he was an effective heel there. And then
I very much liked the angle there with Pete Dunn
returning and uh and then turning on O'Reilly. I thought
that was uh, that was cool and uh and surprising

(01:50:43):
and presumably sets up war games.

Speaker 1 (01:50:48):
How do you how do you feel in general about
the Internet wrestling, the Internet wrestling geeks, the Internet wrestling
community type talk. Where are you in general on that?
And then how do you think Pat McAfee pulled that off?
Because you don't hear that a lot with wrestling promos,
but when I do hear it, you know, I have

(01:51:11):
I have thoughts.

Speaker 2 (01:51:13):
Yeah, I thought that was fine. I mean, you don't
want to get into the stage where it feels like
you're talking out the business as as a work and
you're sort of acknowledging people who are viewing it as
a work. But the idea of just like not liking
people who are on the Internet talking about wrestling, I
don't think necessarily inherently has that subtext to it. So

(01:51:34):
I was fine with him referencing it the way that
he did. I can see the argument that he did
a little bit too much, you know, maybe, but yeah,
I mean I thought it was I thought it worked,
even if you can, uh, you might want to tinker
it with a little bit.

Speaker 1 (01:51:48):
Yeah, I think him coming from sort of like being
a media guy, a radio guy, the pre show guy,
where they sort of go into that zone a little
bit and cater to a subset of the broader audience
that it's sort of the his character comes from that world.
So it feels I'm more I'm more okay with it,
And I was kind of surprised because I was like, oh, God,

(01:52:10):
don't do this, and then I was like, it kind
of works with him. But I also think he's super
talented and effective at what he's doing, and I don't
think he should lean hard into that as sort of
his go to heal line because I think it's it
can sort of just become the new version of Hey,
fat guy, you know, you're just yelling at some of
the audiences are calling him fat and ugly. Oh so

(01:52:34):
you know you lean on that too much and you
have all this other Now he's got this, you know,
this cool faction and so yeah, I'm like it works.
He can go back to it, but don't lean on
it where it's like this really novel thing that starts
where it seems like he thinks it's more novel in
compelling and interesting than it is. Because I think he
has potential to be really effective long term, but he

(01:52:57):
could also end up getting people rolling their eyes at him. Going.
You know, really, you're still doing this. So I just
think it's it's a it's it's he's in territory. He's
got to be a little careful.

Speaker 2 (01:53:08):
Yeah, I understand what you're saying there. It's not it's
not as big of a concern for me, but I I,
you know, I can see the uh, the road you're describing.

Speaker 1 (01:53:18):
So does it look like on Disputed Air are just
sticking together or are you suspicious there's anything else going
on with them? Because that's certainly been speculated about. Because
they're just with the injuries and now Pete Dune back
and mcafeeback and Only and Only and Larkin Lorcan and
Birch getting a push, it seems like they might just

(01:53:39):
stay together. And they've got a faction to feud with now.

Speaker 2 (01:53:42):
Yeah, I think I think the idea was they were
going to break up and then uh and then uh
Ridge Holland got injured and they decided to keep them together. Yeah,
I think that's what happened. Yeah.

Speaker 8 (01:53:56):
I'm Chris Maitland and I'm justin McClelland we all coast
to coast.

Speaker 9 (01:54:00):
Where we scour the wrestling scene to find the best
wrestling from the smallest places.

Speaker 8 (01:54:04):
There are thousands of matches happening every week, so Wrestling
coast to coast is here to discover the men and
women who could be big time stars in a few years.

Speaker 9 (01:54:12):
There are plenty of podcasts de Voters, a WW and AW,
but what's happening in the armories and gymnasiums local wrestling
hotspots around the country.

Speaker 8 (01:54:20):
We can't wait to help you find the true hidden
gyms of the wrestling world. Plus, you can hear Chris
complain about bad referees.

Speaker 9 (01:54:26):
And justin bemoaning dogpole fins.

Speaker 8 (01:54:28):
Don't forget my feudal search to see a blue Thunderbomb
win a match.

Speaker 1 (01:54:31):
How can I like?

Speaker 9 (01:54:33):
The name says we cover the hottest independent promotions from
around the country, so it as Prestige Action, West Coast, Pro, Revolver,
and Beyond Wrestling.

Speaker 8 (01:54:41):
Actually, Chris, I think we stick pretty much to wrestling.

Speaker 9 (01:54:43):
No, I mean Beyond Wrestling out of Wooster, Oh right.
Our show's part of the PW Torch Daily Cast lineup
and typically drops on Thursdays. Search PW Torch in your
podcast app, as subscribed to the pw Torch Dailycast, or
stream our shows directly from PW touch dot com. Find
full details on the W Torch Daily Cast lineup at
PW torchdailycast dot com.

Speaker 1 (01:55:13):
All right, Jake Attlis Santos Escobar, your thoughts on quick
win for Escobar here relatively.

Speaker 2 (01:55:19):
Yeah, another super short match for Jake Atlas and uh
theref sure looked like a don't missing such obvious interference.

Speaker 8 (01:55:27):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:55:28):
Then, all right, so we already talked about the Loomis
Crimes Haunted Host of Terror match. So Ripley and Gonzales.
Ripley gets a decisive, pretty decisive win here in thirteen minutes.

Speaker 2 (01:55:41):
Yep. I thought it was a good match, you know,
probably the best of Gonzalez's career. I mean, they've they've
seemed high in her lately, and I thought the match
was probably a clue as to why they have been.
And uh, we'll see how much of that was was
about Ripley and Gonzalez's next few, uh next few matches.

Speaker 1 (01:55:57):
Then we had a bit backstage with Drake Averick dressing
up is Hollywood Hogan and Kenthy Mitchell has Me and
Gene and Killian Dane wearing the shock Master helmet and
doing a spoof on that was as funny and and
or did it not work?

Speaker 2 (01:56:13):
I liked it. I thought it was amusing little Holly
Halloween spoof and I think you can, you know, get
away with that doing that every once in a while,
and I think that's an occasion for And I like
the fact that they focused more on the giant Yetti
uh parody spot than the shock Master, because the Shockmaster's
kind of played out really and the giant yetty thing

(01:56:37):
was every every bit as ridiculous, if not more ridiculous. So,
you know, using that one I think was a good
h a good idea.

Speaker 1 (01:56:46):
Yeah, the Shockmaster wasn't as foreseeably bad as the Yetti was.
The Yedi yet he played out as expected and was awful,
And the Shotmaster sort of had a blooper that made
it that that tipped it into, you know, absurd territory.

Speaker 2 (01:56:58):
I don't know if I get what you're saying with that,
but I wasn't expecting the Yetti to try to like
sodomize Hogan, so that that that part of it was
was a surprise.

Speaker 1 (01:57:09):
But again, was that a blooper?

Speaker 2 (01:57:12):
What do you mean? Uh?

Speaker 1 (01:57:13):
Like the shong Master was a blooper?

Speaker 2 (01:57:16):
N y there it feels it feels hard for me
to believe that, Like, you know, Kevin Solivan backstage was like, Okay,
what we're doing is uh Yetti and Jihn. You guys
go out there and you're gonna form a kinky sandwich
with help Hogan. Like, I don't think that was the idea.
So that's that's why I sort of think of it as,
you know, sort of having gone awry, even if you know,

(01:57:37):
clear the idea was you were supposed to come out
there and attack Hogan and uh he kind of did.

Speaker 1 (01:57:42):
Yeah. Yeah, I guess one was it went as planned
with an unexpected result, and the other was unexpected something
unexpected happened that led to a different result than they hoped.
So there is a there's a difference in there, but
both you know, the Yeti things should have been for
seeing them if that I just I'm.

Speaker 2 (01:57:59):
Not sure how like whether the Yetty thing was entirely
expected to go that way like or like I because
I can imagine them being backstage and being like, you know,
like maybe like they hadn't really like worked out exactly
what they're going to do, and like Giant already had
like a bear hug and so yet he was like, oh,
we'll do like a double bear hug, and like they
didn't realize when they were doing it how it looked

(01:58:19):
to like the television viewer. It just it seems hard
for me to imagine that, like what happened there was
what it was supposed to look like.

Speaker 1 (01:58:27):
Yeah, yeah, all right, then tomasow Champ I caught a
promo before or the main event. Any thoughts on what
he had to say?

Speaker 2 (01:58:37):
I mean, he sure it feels like a baby face again,
which you know, makes you wonder why exactly they They
turned him heel for no reason a few weeks ago,
but hey, I mean he's he's better off his baby face,
so that's his role again. That's his role again.

Speaker 1 (01:58:51):
What babyface did they lose that opened up a spot
for him to turn face because they've had injuries. But like,
I'm trying to think what unexpected happened where you go, Oh,
they had to do that because of XYZ, But I
don't even see what happened that would have caused them

(01:59:11):
to go, oh, now we need him as a face.

Speaker 2 (01:59:14):
I don't know. Maybe they listened to the facts and
I was very persuasive and have turned him in the
first place, and I'm like, yeah, we shouldn't have turned
him in the first place. Let's let's just pretend we
didn't turn him.

Speaker 1 (01:59:23):
Yeah, because it's been heels going down, not faces, so
that's weird, like with awesome heel, So let's turn another
guy who was a heel face. But I like your answer.
We'll with that, all right, So you know, Shurey canisel
Ray shure I wins this one, so I get my
wish of garganaut the Gargano household being a one belt household,
and but it's in reverse. I was sort of hoping

(01:59:44):
Gargano would be the one moping on his phone while
Larray was celebrating her title victory, but now it might
be in reverse.

Speaker 2 (01:59:51):
Yeah, it certainly. I feel like your scenario works better
with Gargano in the in the moping role. But you know,
we'll see what they do. I thought the match was
very good. You know, EO and and Candice have consistently
delivered very well when they've matched up together, and this
was no exception. I thought they did a great job

(02:00:15):
and it was a good close to a very good show.

Speaker 1 (02:00:18):
Who was the better show this week, Dynamite or Halloween
efogate you for sure, Yeah, yeah, I agree, all right,
anything else in current events you want to talk about Todd? Nope,
all right, so we'll switch. We'll switch, or just move on,
We'll move, move on to the mailbank. The Mailbank segment
is VIP exclusive, So if you're not a VIP member

(02:00:39):
and you want to hear an hour and a half
of fun conversation and great emails on a diverse mix
of topics current events and history, and also a list
of potential WWE Hall of Famers who have not been
added to the Hall of Fame yet and if Todd
and I think they will make it in the Hall
of Fame, and if not, why not? But really a

(02:01:01):
lot of cool topis. You can find a whole list
of the topics at pw torch dot com. On the
post alerting people to the VIP edition of the Fixed
mail Bag. Go vip even better right now, just go
to PW torch dot com slash go vip that's PW
torch dot com slash go vip for nine dollars ninety
nine cents a month to get all the way Keller

(02:01:23):
podcasts and post shows and daily casts with the adds
and plugs removed access to an unmatched library of podcasts
for over fifteen years. We've been doing podcasts even before
podcasts were a word. They're all accessible on the PW
Torch VIP website and tons of other features, including the
Weekend Wade Keller Hotline Flashback, where we go back to
a week's worth of Weadkeller hotlines from ten and fifteen

(02:01:46):
years ago, with fascinating in depth coverage of the news
of the week ten years ago, this weekend, fifteen years ago,
this week. So many reasons to go VIP, So many
great shows and features. Also access to our library of
aresting Tourch weekly newsletters dating back to the late nineteen eighties,
over sixteen hundred back issues now so check it out.

(02:02:06):
Kick the tires give it a try. Nine dollars ninety
nine cents gets you thirty days of access, including access
to our VIP shows, either directly on our ad free
VIP website, or you can subscribe on popular podcast apps
on iPhone and Android. So again. Details at PW Torch
dot com slash go vip. Don't miss out on this

(02:02:27):
week's mail bag, The Weekly Fix with Todd Martin and
The Fixed mail Bag alone might be worth the price
of admission to become a VIP member. We appreciate your
support and we will talk to you tomorrow night after
SmackDown over on the Post Show, and be sure to
check in this weekend for some great best of shows
for both the Red and Blue logo shows.

Speaker 2 (02:02:46):
Here.

Speaker 1 (02:02:47):
Have a great weekend, and please, if you're eligible, go vote.
Vote on Tuesday or early vote if you still can,
don't mail those ballots in though they might not get there,
they might not be accepted. We are past that point,
but please vote. Exercise you're right and let's break some records.

(02:03:23):
Invite you to email the show with feedback or questions
or comments. That email address is Wade Keller Podcast at
pewtorch dot com. That's Wadekeller Podcast at pw torch dot com.
Also welcome your feedback on Twitter. Even follow us on
Twitter at PW torch and follow me at the Wade
Keller That's at PW Torch and at the Wade Keller.

Speaker 6 (02:03:46):
Searching for more great pro wrestling talk, then join me
Jason Powell host them the three weekly Pro Wrestling Boom podcast.
Each week you'll hear the latest news and analysis from
me and my team at Pro Wrestling dot need along
with other pro wrestling media members, Plus the Pro Wrestling
Boom podcast features long form interviews with notable names in
the pro wrestling industry. Subscribe and iTunes, Nitcher, Downcast, and

(02:04:07):
all your favorite secondary apps, or visit us directly at
PW boom dot com. Once again, that's PW boom dot com.

Speaker 1 (02:04:17):
Thanks for listening to our podcast. Did you know we
also have a website, pwtorch dot com. Daily news updates, editorials,
and my live TV coverage covering Raw, Dynamite and SmackDown
and my live pay per view coverage for WWE and AEW.
Create a tab or bookmark make it a daily stop.
Visit us throughout the day every day to keep up
on breaking news and more. That's pwtorch dot com.

Speaker 3 (02:04:40):
Meet an extra dose of positivity in your wrestling podcasts.
Will come join me alanforel Over in the Progress Paradise
at pterew torch VIP as we mask on the bright
side of wrestling and focus on some of the great
matches and shows from around the world, be it US, Japan, Europe,
or Mexico. There's always a place for restings past and

(02:05:02):
the Paradise too, and we've done fun historical shows such
as the We Love Liger series celebrating the glorious career
of Jusian thunder Lighter, and our I Was There When
shows where our guests will join me to talk about
a classic bout that they were in attendance for. We
love variety and you can expect lots of it at
the Progress Paradise. Detailed PW tors VIP subscription information and

(02:05:25):
a list of all the VIP benefits is available at
pww torch vipinfo dot com. And yes, all VIP podcasts
are compatible with popular podcast apps on iPhone and Android devices,
or you can stream them directly from our ad free
VIP mobile site, See You in the Paradise.

Speaker 1 (02:05:44):
One way that you can help us sustain our schedule
of putting out podcasts throughout the week is by giving
us a five star rating on Apple Podcasts. Just go
to Apple Podcasts and look for our weight Teller Pressing
Podcast and Weightkeller Processing Post show and give us a
five star rating. We hope you think we've earned that
score with our fast turnaround times and our quantity and
quality of wrestling analysis throughout the week. So take a

(02:06:05):
moment out for us and do us favor and give
us a five star rating and Apple Podcasts that helps
us on search returns and helps us grow. And if
you want, you can add a few comments about what
you like about the programs in the comments section. Thank
you so much.

Speaker 5 (02:06:21):
In twenty twelve, NXT transitioned into the developmental system and
ultimately the brand you see today. On the Torch VIP
podcast NXT Eight Years Back, we'll be taking a weekly
look at this page.

Speaker 4 (02:06:34):
In NXT's early history. Join Kelly Wells and me Tom
Stout from PWT Talks NXT every Saturday as we go
eight years back to the day to track NXT's rising
talents and why they did or didn't work out Exclusively
for PW Torch VIP members.

Speaker 1 (02:06:50):
A PW Torch VIP membership doesn't just give you add
free access to these shows and a ton of other
VIP exclusive podcasts throughout the week, but you also gain
access to our unmatched vast library of wrestling history, our
contemporaneous week to week coverage through our progressing Torch Weekly
newsletters dating back to the late nineteen eighties, along with
streaming and download access to hundreds of retro radio shows
from the nineteen nineties, including some of my interviews with

(02:07:13):
wrestling's top newsmakers in the nineties, and also our podcast
library dating back to the year two thousand and three.
There's no larger, longer spanning pro wrestling podcast library than
that that comes with a PW Torch VIP membership. Now
approaching twenty years of podcasting, Go VIP and dive into
our post pay per view roundtables are coverage of some
of your favorite eras of wrestling, top name long form interviews,

(02:07:36):
and special format podcasts that we've done throughout the years.
Pw torch dot com slash go VIP. We have a
streamline sign up for me and you can pay with
PayPal or directly with your credit card or debit card.
In one or two minutes from right now, you can
be a VIP member and diving into our library. Pw
torch dot com slash go vip

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

On Purpose with Jay Shetty

The Joe Rogan Experience

Stuff You Should Know

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}5 YRS AGO FLAGSHIP: Keller & Martin talk NXT Halloween Havoc, AEW Dynamite, Smackdown, Raw, Impact Bound for Glory, UFC 254, more

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}On Purpose with Jay Shetty

The Joe Rogan Experience

Stuff You Should Know

All Episodes

5 YRS AGO FLAGSHIP: Keller & Martin talk NXT Halloween Havoc, AEW Dynamite, Smackdown, Raw, Impact Bound for Glory, UFC 254, more

On Purpose with Jay Shetty