5 YRS AGO FLAGSHIP: Keller & Powell talk Ripley's frustrating journey, Omega vs. Moxley, comparing Reigns and McIntyre, Orton-Field, more

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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(01:39):
bring you the Wade Killer Pro Wrestling podcast five years ago.
This week on the Plague Ship, Jason Powell from Pro
Wrestling dot Net joined me. We talked about the pros
and cons of various paths for the AW title. After
John Moxley against Kenny Omega. We compared to Roman Rains
and Drew McIntyre as top acts for WWE. A preview

(02:00):
of NXD Takeover, evaluating the strengths of Roh's weekly TV show,
the return of MLW, grating how Impact had used the
wrestlers who debuted months ago at the Slammiversary pay per
view NXTE versus AW ratings and predictions for that week.
Where Adam Pierce came from and why he's assented to
his current position, Retribution and Hurt Business, The shocking Jimmy
Rave Amputation's story, Rhea Ripley's frustrating journey, the Randy Orton

(02:25):
Fiend feud, and more. So Let's get to it. This
is the Way Keller Progressing podcast five years ago, Flake
Shaplash back for Wednesday, December third, twenty twenty five. Jason
Should Kenny Omega win the AW title tomorrow night? From
John Moxley? Is this the time to make that move?

(02:47):
Or do you think we should see more of Kenny
in his current role evolved before he wins the title,
or given the personality that he's showing, is an almost
kind of vital for him to win it to sort
of validate his supreme aura of arrogance that he's you know,
clearly going for in his journey here and to heal them.

Speaker 2 (03:10):
I'm gonna go wishy washy to start with, because I
think a good case can be made on either side.
I think that yes, it would validate him to win
that AW championship. There is an audience that I think
needs to see him in that role in order to
see him as a true top guy. There's obviously also
people that I think the last year has been great

(03:31):
and you know, he's been a megastar for them since
day one.

Speaker 3 (03:35):
But I also think like.

Speaker 2 (03:38):
John Moxley's doing a great job as champion, you know,
and you can circle back to this match at the
pay per view if you tell the story, and yeah,
I mean he may not be able to. I think
it's not till February, so there's a lot of time there,
but doesn't mean you can't come back to this and
do their big rematch there. So I'm not gonna be
no matter what happens with that match on Dynamite, I

(03:59):
don't think going to sit there and say you made
the right move or you made the wrong move.

Speaker 3 (04:03):
It's gonna be kind of a let's wait and see.

Speaker 1 (04:06):
So what's the positive of keeping the title on Moxley
for six more months? Like, how do you make a
case for what's your best case for just going hey,
this is working, or how do you feel about it?

Speaker 2 (04:19):
Yeah, I don't know that I go six months, but
because only because I think they're running out of good challengers,
there's yeah, I mean you can come up with a
list of people, but are they as compelling. You know,
they could somehow get Miro into a groove, then maybe him,
but you know, there's just there's He's beaten most of
the key players already.

Speaker 3 (04:40):
Cody won't challenge for that title.

Speaker 2 (04:42):
So unless they're going to walk that back, and I
don't think they are, that's not happening.

Speaker 3 (04:46):
So who are those challengers? I guess would be the
tough part.

Speaker 2 (04:50):
And it is too bad because I mean, he really
is a strong champion for them, but I think he's
also the kind of guy that you know, if you
if you ask me who which guy needs the title more?
I would say Kenny Mega at this point than John Moxley.
I think Moxley's gonna be just fine if he does
whenever he drops that title.

Speaker 1 (05:07):
Are we at a point where it is based down
the lay the line with aw it's just those two.
I mean, like there's if for instance, what I mean
is if if Moxy retained against Kenny and Kenny went
off in a different direction, do they have anybody else
ready or or or ready to get ready? Considering Moxley
as a Babyface and staying babyface.

Speaker 3 (05:25):
Ooh, could be like next Day in line for a
title shot.

Speaker 1 (05:29):
Yeah, Like if we look towards their February pay per view,
I mean, it just seems like it's almost one hundred
percent Kenny. I mean, I know they've you know, done
sidebar stuff, you know, with with with Eddie Kingston, but
I mean, cause it doesn't like I don't feel like
there's an undercurrent of someone who's the next person on
the rise, Like Cody seems very much occupied with something else.

(05:52):
Hangman Page just seems ice cold compared to where he was.
If people thought, oh maybe uh Pentagon could be built
up for a one off pay per view feud. He
is completely occupied and so I mean it's a good
thing all these other people are occupied. But you know,
I don't see a Lance Archer or a Miro or
Brody Lee wherever he is, you know, none of the

(06:14):
quote monster guys. So it have to be like somebody
new from the outside.

Speaker 2 (06:18):
I agree, Yeah, it's either try to heat up Miro,
but I just haven't seen anything there to make me
think that it would be a good idea to rush
into that anyway.

Speaker 3 (06:26):
So I think it would be.

Speaker 2 (06:30):
You could still get your way to February, though, I
think just with TV matches, I'm having Moncksley occasionally, you know,
maybe defend the title once a month or something. I
think you can come up with a couple of TV
challengers to get you there. But I do think whether
it's Wednesday night or at the pay per view, I
do think Omega walks away with that championship and it
probably plays into the bigger picture story they're telling long

(06:52):
term with Kenny Omegan Hangman Page as well.

Speaker 1 (06:56):
I think Kenny Omega as a heel aid of each
champion is is essential for Kenny in order to see
what he can do in that top spot. Is such
a turnaround from what we've seen from him in the
first year, so it's coming, you know, a year plus
later that I think a lot of people thought the

(07:17):
perception of him based on his accomplishments prior to aw
where this guy needs to be your top guy. Then
you signed Moxley and you signed Jericho and you're like, oh,
I don't know, so Kenny, you know, hanging out in
the background for a year, not cluttering up the very
top top singles guys and getting what you can out
of Jericho in his late forties. Now he's fifty and

(07:39):
getting establishing your brand with the hot signing of Moxley
fresh off of the shield and in a mega push
for five plus years in WWE. I don't disagree with
any of that. I mean not saying it's the only route,
but I totally get it. But I do think like
you kind of need to go with Kenny now before
he sort of gets defined down as a second tier guy,

(08:00):
guy who sort of flaked out on being able to
be a top guy in an American based weekly TV show,
structured company. And I also am intrigued by it. I'm
absolutely on board with seeing Kenny Omega, who, by the way,
he's not twenty nine, you know, he's in his late thirties.
Let's get a couple of years of him being a

(08:20):
top having being a what's the phrase he has so
many nicknames, but the best bout, the best bout machine.
Let's see it. Let's let aw's pay per view brand
be great. Kenny Omega matches as critical as I've been
while also expressing that I'm going to be patient and
see it through. But as critical as I have been
at different moments in time with Kenny in the way

(08:40):
he presents himself, in the way AW presents him. I
am more excited about seeing Kenny Omega title Defensi's headline
AW pay per views than I am John Moxley matches
because I think John Moxley's better second or third from
the top doing the style that he loves to engage in,
which is a little combat zone wrestling, and you know,
we see what we get with him. I'm more excited

(09:01):
about seeing Kenny, still in his prime, being able to
have a great run of matches. And I also think
his heel character could be a blast if it's on
the high end of the direction that's aiming.

Speaker 2 (09:10):
Yes, I think there's this misconception that people that feel
like his first year was disappointing are somehow rooting against him.

Speaker 3 (09:19):
Absolutely not.

Speaker 2 (09:20):
I loved what the guy did when I saw his
work in New Japan Pro Wrestling, and if he can
be that Kenny doesn't have to be the exact character,
but if he can be that guy that goes in
there and has those amazing matches, then it's going to
be awesome for AW to have that on top of
their cards, pay per view and television. And it does

(09:40):
open up a lot of different challengers. That I mean,
Moxleyell is the type of character who will face anyone
but byan Larchie's faced heels where now you put the
title on a heel. Omega, there's plenty of fresh faces,
both for pay per view they only have four to
fill out per year, and then also for television there's
some really it might not be something that would sell

(10:01):
on a paper, but there's plenty of really intriguing fun
matches that Omega can have with the variety of opponents
on television.

Speaker 1 (10:10):
You can support us on Patreon and get these shows
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(10:32):
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So tell me what you think of what Kenny's doing
as his heal character and who does he remind you of?
Or is he just Kenny? Like there's never been anyone

(10:53):
like him?

Speaker 2 (10:55):
Hmm, I guess I haven't really thought about who he
reminds me. I think he is just Kenny. I know
that his dad can beat up John Moxley's dad, but
beyond that, we haven't proven that. Yeah, I'm taking Kenny's
word for it. I have faith in Kenny with that one.
I thought that was a great line.

Speaker 3 (11:10):
I laughed.

Speaker 2 (11:13):
He I like that he's looking the part now because
for so long he just didn't and it was a
real grumble of mind. And I feel like a curmudgeon.
But it's just like man, you know, dressed up part.

Speaker 1 (11:23):
He was the neighbor who went out to the driveway
to get the morning paper. People will explain people in
Google what a morning paper is, but he's a neighborhood
walk out to get the morning paper on Sunday morning
and he hadn't brushed, he had it showered, and he
was still wearing pajama pants or had thrown on some
sweatpants like he looked like he didn't know he was
going to be on TV.

Speaker 3 (11:42):
Do you have a camera in my neighborhood.

Speaker 1 (11:44):
Yeah, you still get the I.

Speaker 3 (11:47):
Not get the morning paper, but I do have to
go out to get the mail.

Speaker 1 (11:49):
Yeah, I mean. And sometimes he was actually dressed up,
but in a way that wasn't start, that didn't exude
star power. Its just Kenny's fashion sense too. It wasn't
woken up on Sunday morning. It was just his weekend
where or go to the grocery store. But you know
that stuff counts, you know, So I think we're starting

(12:11):
to see more. I still have my concerns about talking
to the people who just like talking like people know
what the cleaner gimmick is, or talking to people the slice,
the slice of the AEW audience and target audience who
have even seen a Kenny Omegan New Japan match, And

(12:31):
it's not the majority, it's not close to the majority,
and AW should be aiming for more than that. And
so much of what they say about him are things
that aren't I don't think going to get them that
next layer of fans, and I think leave. And I
know from emails and phone calls at least people are
very very ardent wrestling fans thinking, wait, they're not even
talking to me. I still don't know who is I

(12:53):
don't if the pitches. He had great matches in New Japan.
I mean, that's not enough for me. I need to
know how. I want to be invested in him one
way or the other as a character, and I want
him to look like a star and act like a star.
And that doesn't have to be one thing, but it
should be something, and it just hasn't been, you know,

(13:13):
consistent with him.

Speaker 2 (13:14):
So yeah, I do think once, you know, if he
wins the championship, we start getting some occasional, big television
made events with him, it can become his calling card
again because it did work on so many people in
New Japan.

Speaker 3 (13:28):
And yeah, you get to.

Speaker 2 (13:28):
You know, you delivered the promos afterward and just kind
of the show closing somewhere better than others and we're
a little rambling, you know, some really were just meant
I always felt like more for the live crowd more
so than people watching on the streaming service. But I
just wonder what, like if there if people just didn't
see New Japan Pro Wrestling, like if it was still

(13:51):
tape traders not streaming and there's an even smaller audience,
what would people be saying right now about they're gonna
make Kenny Omega champion. I think it's and that there
is that audience out there that just didn't see him,
but they're at least aware of his reputation if they're
a big enough of a fan. It's got to be
strange though for people who just didn't and they just

(14:14):
keep waiting to be impressed.

Speaker 3 (14:15):
But I think they will be. I really do. I
think if he.

Speaker 2 (14:18):
Wins that championship and then let's say he has a
strong title defense against a Ray Phoenix or a Pentagon
or just insert a really good fellow, good worker, I
think that's really going to win some people over. But
I mean, you're absolutely right, it needs to be more
than that, and I hope they get that part of
things down, and it seems like it's improving, so let's
hope that continues.

Speaker 1 (14:40):
Anything else on on Moxley Omega in terms of what
you expect, actually, actually I do know what it's going
to ask. What do you anticipate in terms of what
the match is? Because Kenny throw out there, I want
to have a match, you know in the ropes. Let's
not do that, you know, garbage style that that Moxley
does Is that a throwaway line or do you think
that Moxley is going to live up to that. I
don't recall, maybe you do getting a reading on how

(15:02):
Moxley received that that offer or I don't offers the
right word the challenge. I guess to work a straight
up match. I hope that happens. I want to see Moxley,
and I believe Moxley should be more confident he can
do it, especially against somebody like Omega, to not have
to resort to reach it under the ring for stuff
or leaving the confine the ringside.

Speaker 2 (15:23):
I took it, Now, maybe I'm wrong. I just kind
of took it as, Okay, this is going to be
a wrestling match. You may still get the brawl, you
know at ringside whatever. And that's again he did say
between the ropes. So maybe I'm off on this, but
I basically just took it as we're not going to
go out there and do that big garbage match that
we did last time on pay per view. This is
going to be a straight up wrestling match. Let's let's

(15:44):
have a wrestling match rather than a lights out match
unsanctioned and just all the madness that came from that
all right?

Speaker 1 (15:51):
So now anything else on Kenny and Moxley and the
big match tomorrow night on Dotomite.

Speaker 2 (15:57):
Not much to say other than I'm really looking forward
to it. You know, the WWE beat them to the
punch a little bit with the mcintarren Orton title match
on Raw, and I really look forward to that. I
think I'm looking forward to this even more. And it's
it's pretty cool that they've built up to this moment.
And I do lean toward pretty strongly that they're going

(16:17):
to do a title change on this episode. But if
they don't, you know either, I guess I'm just curious
to see what they do. You know, what's where this leads.
If it's not a title change, what's next? But I
think they can thank the folks at Rocketpillar Plaza for
putting up their Christmas tree. They're gonna lose some viewers
to that, but it beat the alternative of that that

(16:39):
football game running directly opposite one of their biggest shows
of the year.

Speaker 1 (16:43):
Yes, Yes, and the show we're getting Toron and I.
Part of the reason it happens is because AW doesn't
run multi pay per views, so they get to build
up two big, big Evoun's kind of like, I mean,
impact does that. You know, TNA has done it for years.
Since they aren't doing multi pay per views, they build
up some of their titles to pick hills. Otherwise, they
didn't come up with like a theme name. I guess

(17:04):
Winter's Coming as sort of the theme.

Speaker 2 (17:06):
Yeah, they have gone, it doesn't It's a little strange
because they've been good with the branding of certain theme
shows and they pop a number and I think this
one will because of Moxley and Omega.

Speaker 3 (17:19):
Maybe they just feel like that's enough.

Speaker 2 (17:21):
But Winter Is Coming doesn't seem like this hot, you know,
like there's no nostalgia there. It's just something Yeah, you
know Game of Thrones series from HBO. I mean, it's fine,
but I don't know that it's going to add any
extra viewers. It's just kind of seems like something they

(17:41):
get a kick out of more than anything.

Speaker 1 (17:43):
And I'm fine with that. It makes for some cool
The graphics department gets to have fun with it, and
I think the aw graphics apartment does really good work.

Speaker 2 (17:49):
Yeah, and you know what, hey, if they deliver a
killer show tomorrow, then maybe next year. If you want
to do the same thing, well, then it'll mean something
you can develop that brand.

Speaker 1 (17:58):
Yeah, yep, if you missed it earlier, just a reminder,
we're running our second VIP sale of the year. We
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(18:21):
and that takes nine dollars off When you check out
on our signup form pw torch dot com, slash go
VIP give you full details on membership benefits and links
to our signup form. Well, let's pause and introduce ourselves here.
This is the Way Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast for Tuesday,

(18:43):
December first, twenty twenty and it is a special Tuesday
Flagship edition. Normally we do our flagship on Thursdays, sometimes
on Tuesdays when we flip days in order to do
a pay per view preview, which we'll be doing this Thursday,
but we didn't want to preview takeover coming up. It's
not really a pay per view, but it's a network special,
but it's Sunday night. Feels like a pay per view

(19:04):
when it's on Sunday nights. So longtime frequent guest on
the WAYE Keller Porsing Podcast, Matt McCarthy will join me
to preview takeover. We'll certainly talk about some other topics
too with Matt, including what's going on in WWE naw.
He is the former WWE Creative Team member. He is
a stand up comedian. He is in commercials that if

(19:25):
you watch commercial television you see him probably several times
a weekend. He also hosts the We Watch Wrestling podcast
and he'll join me on Thursday, and it'll be fun
to catch up with him, so be sure to hit
download on that today though on the flagship, my co host,
as is the case every three weeks, is Jason Powell
from Pro Wrestling dot Net and the Pro Wrestling Boom podcast. Jason,

(19:48):
the Vikings are in a much better position. We always
have a tradition for teenplus years doing a little Viking
talk during football season. They are in a much better
position today. Well, I don't know. Are they in a
much better position than certainly then six weeks ago, but
they're in a better position than three weeks ago. But man,
if they had pulled off the game last week, in
addition to everything else they've been doing, it would be

(20:10):
a different season.

Speaker 3 (20:11):
Oh.

Speaker 2 (20:12):
I mean, you can look at that Seattle game. They
had every chance to win that one. They were inches
away on that fourth and short play from actually winning
right there. There's so many things you could point to,
but I just think they're an average team, but with
really young cornerbacks. I mean, some of those guys going
into the season, I think two of the would be starters.

Speaker 3 (20:34):
I think one was hurt.

Speaker 2 (20:36):
We've played as many NFL games as they had, and
there was no preseason, and so you just kind of
knew it was going to be rough.

Speaker 3 (20:42):
Rogers just destroyed.

Speaker 2 (20:43):
Them in that first game, and you had to kind
of expect it. But that's Mike Zimmer's specialty, is coaching
up cornerbacks. I'm really excited to see what this team
can and I'll enjoy this season, but I can't wait
for next season.

Speaker 1 (20:55):
Yeah, but it's turned into at least a fun year
where's there's something to watch. I don't know what what
the percentages are of the Vikings making the playoffs this year,
and I think the odds are even lower they make
like this, you know, deep run into the playoffs, but the
fact that it's even on the table after the way
the season started was good.

Speaker 2 (21:11):
So yeah, yeah, Hey, I'd rather be in our position
than the Bears and we have the same record.

Speaker 1 (21:15):
Yeah, poor Bears. Sorry all the Bears fans.

Speaker 2 (21:18):
I'm not their fans are the absolute worst, not.

Speaker 3 (21:20):
All of them.

Speaker 4 (21:21):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (21:22):
I just say Zach ca Orn's name and the next
words out of your mouth are their fans are the
absolute worst.

Speaker 2 (21:26):
See Hayte ORNs never giving me a hard time on like,
you know Germaine from Chicago. Brian Fritz is a good
Bears fan. But yeah, I just there's something Packer fans.
I think they're just used to winning. I don't get grief,
Like even when they blew us out nothing and Bears fans,
oh my god, they win a game and they think
they're going to the super Bowl. Some of them are
just delusional.

Speaker 1 (21:46):
I think that the fans. I feel the worst for
Alliance fans. Yeah, I mean, they're in a vision. I
don't want them to do well. But at the same time,
if the Vikings don't do well. There is something about
that state deserving that city deserving something more than a
once every eight to twelve year teaser followed by heartbreak.

Speaker 2 (22:09):
I can go either way on this because I always thought,
you know, if if the Vikings aren't in there, I'm
going to root for the Lions over the Bears or
the Packers. But then the like one season when they
were good, they're fans unsolicited would just reach out and
give me all sorts of like you're a Lions fan.
You don't get to give people.

Speaker 1 (22:26):
Crap, right, Yeah, you got to earn that, all right,
enf NFL talk. There's some people overseas who are yelling
at us, and probably the one football Yes, yes, yeah,
there we go. Okay, we talked about Kenny and and Moxley.
A quick note on AW ratings. Last week, NXT pulled

(22:46):
out a surprise victory in total viewership seven hundred twelve
thousand to seven hundred and ten thousand NXT and the
actual rating beat them, you know, by ten percent point
five y three to point four. Not what happened there?
You know, AW had been winning. They won by over
two hundred thousand viewers the prior week and then they

(23:07):
lose by two thousand viewers the next week, so it's
basically a tie. I mean that's within the margin Bearra,
but that's a big swing, and I'm just surprised there's
that many people who will abandon AW on you know,
in that a bunch of them did go to NXT
for a show that I didn't think was, you know,
on paper, like a spectacular NXT line up.

Speaker 2 (23:28):
Either No, no, it wasn't. I thought ADW was the
better show last week too. But I wasn't surprised because
the year before the eve of things getting the same
thing happened. It was a little like this year with
you know, the lockdowns and just restrictions. I wasn't sure
if we'd see a similar pattern. But I think it

(23:49):
just goes to show that AW fans are completely irresponsible
people who should have stayed home and watched the supported
their favorite product, rather than going out to bars and
traveling and doing all sorts of things they're not supposed to.

Speaker 3 (24:01):
I'm half joking.

Speaker 1 (24:03):
Well, like the eighteen to thirty four audience, AW dropped
from point two eight to point two one in the
male eighteen to thirty four audience, and NXT stay pretty
steady points seven to point eight point zero seven to
point zero eight. That zero's vital, So it does seem
like a big drop off was you know the in
the younger demo. So yeah, yeah, I guess in that sense,

(24:25):
because it's on the eve of a holiday, it's an aberration,
but it says something about how different their viewership is.

Speaker 3 (24:30):
Yeah, again two years in a row.

Speaker 2 (24:32):
The same thing happened the year before, and I think
they actually had a fairly AW had kind of a
big show and then the DVR numbers came out and
that AW ended up having a huge night with the
DVR numbers.

Speaker 3 (24:44):
So we'll see if that if that sticks this time around.

Speaker 1 (24:46):
Yeah, And I tried this on the way Keller hotline
for VFP members in detail and we put it up
at Pwtorch dot com. The plus three and the plus
seven day ratings that we get access to, and you know,
AW is consistently no matter what they do on say
night viewership, they're in the nine hundred to one million
range and you know, in the nine to one thousand
to just over a million range consistently, and they do

(25:08):
tend to I haven't done a deep dive into the numbers,
but they do appear pretty consistently to have viewers who
if they miss it on one night, well we'll watch
it on DVR on delay. So I'm curious where we
are in a week or two when we get this.
It'll be two weeks when we get the full seventy

(25:29):
viewership number if people did end up just catching up
on the show that they missed.

Speaker 2 (25:37):
Do you what's your prediction for aew with this big
title match? Do they have any chance of reaching a
million viewers on Wednesday?

Speaker 1 (25:46):
The last let's see the peak. The peak viewership for
them was during a time when they didn't have opposition
during that mid August to mid September range, and they
did break a million the first week of September. Since then,
they haven't hit nine hundred thousand on same night viewership.
They got eight hundred ninety nine thousand on September sixteenth,

(26:08):
So I mean, essentially is that, but they haven't come
really close to that, since I'm looking at the chart,
and I mean for same for same night viewership, you
have to go back to basically pre pandemic to get
to nine hundred thirty eight thousand. The last time they
did nine hundred thousand on the actual you know, live
and same night viewership, and god, hitting a million, you

(26:32):
have to go back to October sixteenth last year, So
it would be a it would be a pretty big
news story if they're able to get to a million
coming off of a down week, at least in terms
of live viewership. We don't have the date on the
plus three and plus seven day total, so I guess
if I'm making a prediction based on the if we
look at the ten week average coming into this week,

(26:56):
because I think that's a pretty good sample size, and
that's after they that's the they've been back in their
normal time slot head to head with NXT for ten
weeks now. They've averaged eight hundred six thousand viewers. So
to me, a big victory is like getting nine hundred
and twenty to nine hundred and fifty thousand. I would
not hold I would not say it's a disappointment if
they don't get to a million. I just don't. I

(27:19):
just don't see enough flexibility in viewers of NXT to
think that they'll gain three hundred thousand viewers. I mean
that's like forty percent of people, the forty percent of
last week's viewership is an increase that would be equal
to forty percent last week's viewership just seems too much.

(27:41):
So to me, jumping up hundred twenty to one hundred
forty thousand seems like to me what popping a rating
would be. If I thought Keny Omega was a hotter
character right now, I might say, Oh, they might push
to a million. I just don't. I mean, as much
as I think it's a big match in AW has
done a good job and it feels big to AW viewers,
I don't know that it rises to a level where
people who don't watch Dynamite are like, I need to

(28:02):
see this in a large enough number to get them
to a million.

Speaker 2 (28:05):
Okay, So yeah, nine to twenty is kind of the
target for a good episode. You'll consider that a strong
showing for them.

Speaker 1 (28:12):
Yeah, because for a regularly scheduled show had to head
with NXT, you have to go back to August fifth
for the last time they were a little above nine
hundred thousand, and to find another nine on the chart
you have to go back to March fourth, March eighteenth,

(28:34):
as I mentioned before. So yeah, I mean they just
don't they don't go above nine hundred thousand like this
whole even pre pandemic, it wasn't a given. They bounced
up and down, and since the pandemic and they took
a hit, they haven't, so you know, they haven't very
often at all. So yeah, yeah, nine twenties is a
good a good number.

Speaker 3 (28:52):
Okay, that seems a tanable.

Speaker 2 (28:55):
I think the show prior to Thanksgiving Eve was eight
fifty if memory serves, is what they reached for the
same nine viewership, So if they yes, seventy thousand increase,
it seems attainable.

Speaker 1 (29:08):
Yep, yep. Theyd's in fact last year, since you brought
it up the week before Thanksgiving eight hundred ninety three thousand,
Thanksgiving Eve six hundred and sixty three thousand, Yeah, and
then they bounced back to eight hundred and fifty one thousand,
and then they went down by the way in December.
The December eleventh and December eighteenth tales last year dropped
to seven seventy eight and six eighty three. So, you know,

(29:31):
whatever the reason, you know they are strong in that
eighteen to thirty four mail demo. They they lose people
in the they lose people around the holiday. So my
hunch is eight. We's aware that, well, I know they're aware.
I should say, of course they're aware of it. Tony
studies and numbers, Tony condas I and Chris Harrington of
course is feeding him information too and interpreting the numbers.
I'm curious if after this match they try to pop

(29:53):
big ratings to close out the year, or if we
see they sort of take a deep breath, downshift a
little bit and just sort of accept that they're not
going to do big numbers and build to something in
January that's big to try to kind of kickstart viewership
again like happened last year Wwards. Once January hit, they
because their last viewership December eighteenth before taking Christmas off

(30:15):
six hundred and eighty three thousand, January first nine hundred
and sixty seven, nine hundred forty seven, nine hundred forty
out of the gate. In January it was three of
their better viewership numbers of the whole year.

Speaker 2 (30:25):
Interesting how much of that is the wrestle Mania season
trickle down? If you believe that, you know, January kind
of kicks off WrestleMania season with people becoming interested because
of the rumble.

Speaker 3 (30:35):
Do they benefit from.

Speaker 1 (30:36):
That, well, I'll throw this out there because NXT is
comparable even though their demographics are so different. Obviously we
see the ups and downs are different. NXT in the
three weeks the first the first three weeks of December
did eight hundred thousand on average, and the first three

(30:56):
weeks of January they did one hundred and fifty six thousand.
So NXT had the opposite happen.

Speaker 3 (31:05):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (31:06):
So again I would have to go back and look
at what the two shows are producing to come up
with that. But I would say it's non inevitable, but
it was. You know, we only have one year of
patterns of dynamite viewership, but that pattern suggests that AW
will go up and NXT will not. But it is
a small sample size of just one you know, one January.

Speaker 2 (31:24):
I do seem to remember them doing something big to
kick off the year, but my memory is so poor
I can't tell you what it is. But still that's yeah,
it will be interesting that the way Tony Kahan made
it seem when he was kind of called on making
it seem like the pack thing was this you know,
game changing moment for ADW is that there's more to
come over the next several weeks, so let's maybe he'll

(31:46):
make good on that, maybe he won't, but yeah, it'll
be I think it would make some sense actually to
really rep things up in January.

Speaker 5 (31:54):
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Speaker 1 (32:56):
See you in the Paradise, Jason. Before we go further,
tell people about your website, why they should visit it,
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(33:34):
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Speaker 1 (34:39):
Jason, all right, let's talk about TLC developments. On Raw.
Last night, AJ Stoules gets a match against Drew McIntyre.
This is a match that I know Drew has said
he wanted half that he really wanted to face AJ Styles.
Drew is a big wrestling fent. I mean, you grew

(34:59):
up being a wrestling fan. It's his character is somebody
who grow you know. He talks about it openly. It's genuine,
and he's got tons of respect for what AJ can
do in the ring. I mean, you know, Aj is is. However,
people feel about Aj in other ways. They love his
his dedication and athleticism and ring instinct and and ring
generalship and Drew McIntyre, I think, wants to go out

(35:23):
at TLC, setting aside the storyline for a moment and
have a statement match. We talk about what Kenny and
and Moxley might do tomorrow night. I'm really looking forward
to what this I think we're gonna see. And Aj
isn't where he was five years ago as an athlete,
but as a ring general, he gets smarter every year,
and that's been the pattern with a lot of people.
Chris Jericho, Sean Michaels, like the great workers who age

(35:46):
into their you know forties and are still having really
good matches, tend to make up for slowing down athletically
in the wear and tear in their body with really
smart matches. I think this has a chance to be
a surprise people and show people the high end of
what Drew McIntyre can do in the ring against a

(36:09):
smaller wrestler who creates a lot of movement. Drew is
in his physical prime at this moment. AJ's still enough
in his prime, although the tail end of it, so
just from a pure en ring standpoint, I'm not hearing
as much of a buzz about this because I don't
think Drew is seen as like, you know, a worker,
a world class worker, as much as a good guy
on top. And I think this is a chance for

(36:29):
him to kind of open some eyes.

Speaker 2 (36:31):
Yeah, I think so too. I think he could have
done the same with Keith Lee. I think a different
style match, but I think they if you give them
full length pay per view, I think they would have
killed it with styles. I'm just hoping they're not going
to be saddled with some needless TLC gimmick. I don't
need a tables match or a TLC match. Just let
them go out there and have a match and they'll
do fine. But they need to sell people on this

(36:53):
and having AJ styles do Cameron Grimes light as he's
being carried away by almost is going to do it
make people think there's a chance at AJ wins the
title book. AJ seriously, this comedic stuff that he does,
it's fun, he's good at it, but it's not main event.

Speaker 3 (37:11):
You know, that's the kind of thing.

Speaker 2 (37:12):
He can do when he's clowning around in the US
title picture. But now that he's like challenging for the
championship at the pay per view, I want serious AJ styles.
I want to feel like something's different, that we should
take him seriously again, because there hasn't really been a
reason to for.

Speaker 3 (37:27):
Some time now.

Speaker 1 (37:29):
Yeah, that's why when I was touting the potential match
quality and opening some eyes about you know, what your
McIntire can do in the ring, and he's got to
deliver by the way, you know, I mean, it hasn't
happened yet, and it could end up being disappointing. I
just know, given how much P and H are looking
forward to this match mutually, that it should be really good.

(37:53):
Like I think people should make, you know, anticipate the
possibility that it's a really special match. But I'm with
you on the stipulation aspect of it and by the way,
people can google it. Drew talked about months ago, you know,
about really wanting a match with AJ, and he hoped
that it would happen. And when wrestlers feel that way,
generally they put more into the match than you know, normally,
even if they're normally professional about it. Storyline wise, I'm

(38:16):
with you. I don't hate the Omas. I don't even
I know the inflection is weird on how they say
his no Amas, I don't like hate the gimmick of
him being paired up with him. It's sort of counterintuitive.
You've got a main inventor who's undersized, and now you're

(38:36):
accentuating it. But when the gimmick is that guy is
the tallest guy ever to walk the face of the earth,
it has less impact than if he's just treated as
a normal sized guy. You know, and AJ looks tiny
next to him, like Grandy Orton is seen as a
normal sized guy in wrestling, and Alexa Bliss looks tiny,
so you think Alex is tiny. But when the gimmick
of Amas is he's giant, well, Styles helps accentuate that,

(38:59):
but you don't think a lot differently about Styles and Styles.
This brand is already well established, So I'm okay with
Styles being with him, But I'm one hundred percent with
you that I think Styles is leaning a little too
hard into playing off of him in a comedic way,
and I'm enjoying it like I thought I got a
kicked out of him last week saying wait you talk.

(39:19):
I have so many questions for you. Like that's what
would happen if my dog started talking to me. I'd
be like, wait you actually you can talk? I got
so many questions for you. Why did you tell me
this all these years? Like that was it was. It
was a fun reaction. But I do need to I
shouldn't say need, but I hope and I think it
would behoove AJ styles and wwe t have AJ flipped

(39:41):
the switch to getting a little more serious and issue
sort of that mission statement about what it would mean
for him to end Drew McIntyre's reign and cut a
serious promo. You know, I want the three profits to
do this. I want New Day to do this. I
certainly want Biggie to do this. Wrestlers who are goof
and and I want Riddle to do it if he
ever gets a push beyond a mid card comedy act,

(40:02):
I will. I wish Vince McMahon more often allowed character
his characters who are who are characters to flip the
switch and get serious when the time is, when the
time in moment calls for it. Because there's a lot
to work with and if AJ got serious, I think
people would pay attention. And if he just said, hey Drew,
you know, Drew's uh generational talent. He has a chance

(40:25):
to be a John Cena Roman Reigns AJ Styles level guy.
But he isn't there yet. He has to beat me
to get there, and I want to be the guy
who stops him. I want people to look at at
this moment in history five years from now and say,
remember when Drew McIntyre had that great year and all
w B could do is talk about what a great
year he had. Remember when I when I cut that
short and he was never the same again. Like I

(40:49):
want a Jaden to make to make that case and
kind of have that sports like approach that goes beyond
the comedy and the goofing off. And I think this match,
even though it's you know, December, it's you know not
traditionally's peak period for big matches, It's a match I
wanted to see and it's a match that I think
they can make feel more important and I think more

(41:10):
people would be interested if they did.

Speaker 2 (41:12):
I agree, And I have no problem with him being
paired with almost I feel like his act needed something
because he has been that secondary champion or secondary championship
challenger for so long now that it's just like, Okay,
it's Aj. You know what he does, and you almost
take it for granted because he's so good, but you
see it all the time where this freshens things up.

(41:33):
But I do think it's the wrong time, even though
there is some humor in it, but I think it's
the wrong time to have almost start to develop a
personality too, Like, wait until after this match. I assume
McIntyre's going to retain. If that's the case, then you know,
whenever a j kind of moves back into something else,
then start to establish this guy's personality. If it's going
to be a little bit quirky and comedic right now,

(41:55):
it's not to make him as menacing as possible. Make
AJ serious as hell about taking that title. Sell people
on this match. It's not that difficult. But there their
first inclination seemed to be let's do the huh.

Speaker 1 (42:06):
Huh totally it totally is. I mentioned Matt Riddle in passing.
There is Mett Riddle salvageable to be a top guy.
When we look at what Matt Ridlel and Keighley are doing,
and they were the like, if I don't know six
months ago or a year ago, you just said, Okay,
we're entering twenty twenty one. Who are the acts and

(42:28):
nxt as of six', nine twelve months ago who could
come in and have the biggest impact and be difference
makers TO wwe that's struggling with viewership erosion and they
need some fresh. Stars two of the guys you would have,
said and probably Everybody riddle And keighley would have been
on ninety five percent Of People's top four, list you,
KNOW i, Mean Adam cole would be thrown in, whatever

(42:49):
but maybe velveteen dream back then would have been you,
know there would have, been but they'd have been on
like ninety five percent Of People's top four top five,
list and they brought them. In AND i mentioned this
on The on The way Color person post show last.
Night w makes the vast majority of wrestlers less marketable
and less valuable the MORE tv exposure they, get and

(43:11):
people with a really high upside Like riddle And lee get,
characters or In lee's, case not really any, character but
In riddle's, case a character that defines them down so
that you actually have to dig yourself out of a
hole to make them a big star. Again AND i
know internally there's a process for. That you, know we
got to know if you have the right attitude and
if you're, durable and if you're a student of the

(43:32):
game or you're more worried about you, know cigarette breaks
and video, games you, know or, whatever then you are you,
know investing in your character and figuring out how to
make yourself. Better AND i get, that you, know what
we see ON tv is only part of the picture
for why people do and don't get. Pushes but and you,
Know riddle And Keith lee have baggage that they brought with.
Him riddle it delayed his signing With Keith. Lee he

(43:55):
got you, know tested a little bit IN xt and
with starting stop. Pushes SO i know there's some other
things at. Play BUT i think there's a time to
be a little less picky, too and go with a
mega push and see if you can strike with somebody
as a difference, maker and then find other ways to
let to more overtly deal with maturity issues or professionalism

(44:18):
issues or process. Issues then sending hidden messages through mid
carding people who are upper card.

Speaker 2 (44:25):
People, yes, YEAH i agree with all of, that AND
i feel you asked me about Real can he be, Salvash,
yes but he needs to regain HIS iq in a.
HURRY i, MEAN i wrote The hitlers last, quek like
this guy goes to the main roster and he loses
his first name and TWENTY iq. Points it's embarrassing want

(44:46):
to be around.

Speaker 1 (44:47):
Him But, jason that's not a compliment to his PRE iq.
Level if he is at this level and he only
lost twenty and that's.

Speaker 2 (44:55):
FAIR i, mean, hey he was always kind of the
dope guy and there's there's some charm in. That but,
yeah what they're doing with him, now like he's. UNWATCHABLE
i cringe now when he's he's another ur. Truth it's
the last thing that they need ON wraw is another
our truth and that's what he's. Become you can't eat
LIKE i don't even feel sympathy for him when when

(45:16):
The heels beat him.

Speaker 1 (45:17):
Up, yes, no, NO i, know ALTHOUGH i do have
to disclose that WHEN mvp dissed His Shark tank, idea
as bad as the idea was and poorly, Written i'm
not saying that bit was, funny but his reaction of
aw WHEN mvp rejected his. Idea did crack me. UP
i actually thought that was. Funny and WHAT i worry

(45:40):
about is that's What vince, sees and he thinks it's
a winning. Segment you know that just because you, know
just because somebody can play the, fiddle doesn't mean they
ought to as part of their. Gimmick and just Because Matt,
RIDDLE i GUESS i rhymed subconsciously there didn't know he's doing.
It just Because riddle can do don't be humor doesn't
mean that actually is anywhere close to the best use

(46:02):
of him at a time when you need new. Stars
boom periods come when you create new, stars and eighteen
to thirty four year old male audiences grow when there's
somebody who can be their generational star that they can get.
Behind and as good As Randy orton has, been as
excellent as he has been at times this, year and

(46:22):
as much as this will be a signature year in
his long, career in a lot of, ways he and
The fiend and frankly aj styles and even NOW i
hate to say, It Daniel bryan And SEAMUS i mean
they're just they're not going to be difference makers there
they might sustain you and give you a little bit

(46:43):
of a boost or slow down viewership erosion if you're
doing good things with. Them but the ones who are
going to bring you to a new level and bring
new people in are going to be new stars like
A Keith lee Or riddle who you book to their maximum.
Potential and it's been it just hasn't been the. Case
it's been a real example Of vincent man over the
years having an internal set of rules or seeing something

(47:06):
in somebody and just exaggerating it so much that it
actually undercuts their.

Speaker 3 (47:10):
Upside i'm so frustrated With.

Speaker 2 (47:13):
LEE i, MEAN i was excited when they kind of
thrust him into big matches right out of the, gate
but it became apparent pretty, quickly, like, oh that's all
they thought. Of they don't have any other once these
big matches are, over they don't have anything in mind
for this. Guy they're just going to make it up
as they, go and he just doesn't mean what he.
Should and it's a shame because that was the guy

(47:35):
That vince was so excited about that he gave him
the big moments in The Survivor series match and.

Speaker 3 (47:39):
EVERYTHING i don't know how he can miss with that,
guy but they.

Speaker 1 (47:45):
ARE i, KNOW i know if you missed it. Earlier
just a, reminder we're running our SECOND vip sale of the.
Year we don't do these. Often take advantage of it.
Now it is a limited time. Offer take nine dollars
off A vip subscription in a one, month three, month
or one year Sub it brings the one month sub
down to just three dollars in ninety nine. Cents the
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(48:07):
In november N v twenty twenty, five and that takes
nine dollars off when you check out on our signup
form pw torch dot, com slash go V ip give
you full details on membership benefits and links to our signup.
Form all, right let's let's shift to a couple things

(48:32):
we can go. With, well let's just talk about The
fiend And randy or BECAUSE i really am curious for
your take on what they're going for here and if
it's completely unconventional and if, so if that's okay in
terms of kind of the face healed, dynamic is this
viewed a means to an ends for both? Characters WHAT
i just if somebody asks, like what's going, On i'd be, like,

(48:52):
WELL i think people are intrigued with the. SPECTACLE i
think people want to see the. MATCH i don't think
it's a match that people don't want to. See BUT
i don't know what w's endgame, is AND i don't
know how we're supposed to feel about the, characters And
i'm not CONFIDENT wwe does. Either how do you explain
what they're?

Speaker 3 (49:08):
DOING i.

Speaker 2 (49:09):
CAN i can tell you with confidence that there's many
of us that have no desire to See fiend matches
period with, anybody but.

Speaker 3 (49:17):
IT i don't. KNOW i don't know what they're going.

Speaker 2 (49:22):
For, yeah the segments themselves are, COMPELLING i, mean all
joking aside About fiend. Matches i'm into the. SEGMENTS i
can't say they're making me really want to see these guys.
Wrestle and maybe some of that is baggage from when
it Was Bray white Against Randy orton and they keep
feeling the need to remind me about him burning down
the stupid shed that you AND i were there at

(49:42):
that show. For AND i still to this, DAY i am
baffled by that live crowd cheering this on like you
paid good money to go to see a wrestling, show
and you're happy that the last ten minutes of the
show involves a guy burning down a shed on a big.
Screen i'm still bitter about, that almost as bitter AS
i was with The minneapolis crowd Forgiving undertaker the what
treatment and just poor moments In minnesota wrestling history, there.

(50:04):
Folks but, YEAH i don't know who's the baby. FACE
i don't know who's the, heel AND i don't want
to hear from anybody going it's twenty.

Speaker 3 (50:12):
Twenty there's no such, thing and stop.

Speaker 2 (50:15):
It it's. Stupid this is the easiest path is to
make this work with baby faces and, heels and you
can do babyface versus. Babyface you certainly can build up
to a big. Match you can occasionally have some fun
WITH mgf And Chris, jericho and maybe that's what this.
Is BUT i don't. Know they're not giving us any
clues to what they want us to. Feel there's people

(50:37):
who Think Pretty wyatt The fiend is a baby. Face,
well how do you Explain Alexa bliss and what she's
doing To Nikki? Cross THEN i don't get any of.

Speaker 1 (50:45):
This that's the THING i mean there's just so many.
Inconsistencies And i'm glad that you took the verbal tone
that you did about you, know we're you, know because
people say it like it's they're taking wrestling to a
level no one ever to take.

Speaker 3 (51:00):
It oh they're so. Enlightened, yeah they're so.

Speaker 1 (51:02):
Enlightened and it's, like, no it's just it hasn't been
done consistently by anybody because it doesn't work and it's
not a natural. Fit and you, know, yeah it's like you,
know someoney. Tried it's like just anybody who enters some. Genre,
uh and like somebody in the newspaper business, going you,
know we're gonna do. Now we're gonna put the biggest
story upside down on page. Five you, know we're gonna

(51:26):
that's no one's ever thought of. That why does the
biggest story have to be on the front? Page and
why does it have to be. Legible let's make the
biggest story something people have to. Decode we're gonna scramble
though it's. Good we're gonna combine though The we're gonna
combine the word find in the crossroad puzzle with the biggest.
Story that's gonna get people to turn the page or.
Advertising it's, like, no that's a dumb. Idea there's a
reason that we stick to the basics and put the

(51:48):
biggest story first in big font on the front. Page so,
yeah SO i now that. Set i'm just mocked. Out
you know people who say that that, Said i'm not
against exceptions, now and THEN i, MEAN i think that's totally, fine.
RIGHT i, MEAN i, remember you, know seeing the Whole
cogan And Ultimate warrior match and what a big deal that.
Was like it was just so it's so broke from
the norm and it was, like, WOW i didn't think

(52:09):
we'd ever see these two against each. Other and so
part of following structure and following convention and following rules
is it builds up the ability to really make a
big impact when you break from. IT i just don't
know that orton fiend feels like, it's you, know this
big break in. Part And i'll push back on on
more with What Todd martin was talking about on The

(52:29):
fixed yesterday with. Me part of it is the announcers
aren't really helping guide us and fill in some of
the gaps on the, storytelling and they're not reacting in
a natural way like what you AND i are saying
About orton And fiend could actually a lot of it
could be part of the. Commentary you know these you,
know like the announcers could be talking more naturally about

(52:50):
this is so, Strange like think about the horrible Things
Randy orton has done To Rick flair And christian and
bigtri and then think about what The fiend And Alexa
bliss have been doing and they're. Attacked who are we
supposed to even be rooting for here like? That JUST
i want the announcers to ask that. QUESTION i don't
Understand vince's philosophy of not having the announcers live in
the real world and, realize just like home team announcers

(53:12):
when you watch hockey or the, end if you WATCH
nhl OR nba, games or your college football, announcer if
you're listening on radio to YOUR nfl, team their raw
raw home, team and it's totally. Cool that's part of the,
presentation and local sports teams know. It that's why they
dictate who gets. Hired and the wrestling announcer should be
the raw raw home team announcer who is cheering for

(53:33):
the home, team i. E the Baby, Faces and when
you have a battle of two unlikable figures who have acted.
Despicably that should be part of the. Storyline it should
be part of the, narrative and you can engage your
viewers in a way That Raw talk does Or talking smack,
does or on a different, level what we're doing here
not part of the, company that, piece that component is,
missing AND i think it leaves behind an opportunity to

(53:57):
kind of help lead people and add a layer of
discussion for even more viewers and acknowledge the, obvious which
is who are we supposed to be rooting for? Here
and then they can also, say BUT i sure want
to see how this plays.

Speaker 3 (54:09):
Out seems, simple doesn't it to?

Speaker 6 (54:12):
Me?

Speaker 2 (54:12):
Yeah, yeah, Yeah, WELL i, mean these are the same
broadcast team members that have to sit there and play
dumb When Mea yim's mask falls off and it's bad
enough they can't recognize her with that little mask, on
but even when it falls, off they have to just
sit there and pretend like they've never seen this woman.

Speaker 1 (54:26):
Before anytime you're WATCHING Wwe raw Or SmackDown or Aw
dynamite in, particular send us an email if you've got
thoughts on the show or a topic you want us
to address or a question for. Us Wadekeller podcast at
pwtorch dot. Com Wadkeller podcast at pewtorch dot. Com if

(54:46):
there's anything else going on in pro wrestling that you
want us to address on our main podcast during our mailbank,
segments that same email Applies Wadekeller podcast at pwtorch dot.
Com we invite that. Interaction let us know what you
think of what we're, saying and let us know what
you want us to talk about and ask us specific.
Questions Wade Keller podcast at pw torch dot. Com all,

(55:12):
right it's your. Fault you brought it.

Speaker 4 (55:13):
Up?

Speaker 1 (55:14):
Retribution what the hell was all he self aware when
he was? Shouting you, know failure will not be accepted
in retribution when all they do is, fail you? Know
so WHAT i, mean Ra underground, Disappeared retribution is still.
AROUND i wasn't sure which would out last which it's

(55:35):
STILL i still feel like Roonder ground is just like
this fever dream and it didn't really, happen AND i you,
Know i'm mixing up reality with, dreamland but it. Is
why are they still ON? Tv and if they're committed
to having them still ON. Tv why did they promote
them the way that they did for so?

Speaker 3 (55:51):
LONG i don't.

Speaker 2 (55:54):
Know it's so bad, that you, know keep in mind
that Montes ford was poisoned that same night That Raw
Red tribution, started or, yeah The retribution, faction and then
Also Raw, underground AND i, wish you, know IF i
had to choose between the three as to which was still,
Alive i'd have Montese ford in a coma right, now
just to avoid Watching Raw underground and this nonsense that Is.

(56:17):
Retribution it's that, bad not really in a, coma but
just storyline. Wise i'm not that, twisted but it's they
just can't admit. Defeat this is one where you just, Say,
okay we swung and, missed let's move, on let's give
these people a real. Chance let's not do any more

(56:37):
damage to me, again or for that, matter must have Fall.
LEE i guess is how we're pronouncing that?

Speaker 3 (56:43):
NOW i. Can't i'm not even. Sure but.

Speaker 2 (56:46):
Because he's a very good, performer he deserves better than he's,
gotten and it sucks that he's the face of this.
Thing get him out of this before you do significant
damage to. HIM i think the others will be, okay
but me and m everyone knows it's. Her and, GRANTED i,
mean if you're enough of a wrestling, fan you know
who they all. Are but it's not like you, think

(57:07):
if you see is it T. BAR i don't know.
That like a casual fan who does watch NXT's, Going,
oh that's Definitely Dominic Niga.

Speaker 3 (57:15):
Covid there's.

Speaker 2 (57:15):
Enough he's covered up enough THAT i think he'll be
fine and be able to bounce back from. This he'll
get you, know smart ass fans making that comment for
years about T. Bar but, yeah those, two it's front and,
center and there's some real baggage that comes along with.
This they need to wrap this. Up just stop pretending
like this can Be selvash because it.

Speaker 1 (57:33):
Can't, YES i, agree her business another faction with great,
upside and they redeem them a little bit with a
win last night and giving a little More mike time
To shelton And. Cedric BUT i think they could be
a level higher if they had really gotten Behind cedric And.

(57:56):
Shelton and again this gets to my stance in my
pitch for announcers amplifying WHAT wwe is trying to, accomplish
and of course you need the storyline support it have
maximum effect, Too So i'm advocating for. Both and If
shelton And cedric were on a hot streak of winning
matches and W w doesn't have a lot of take,

(58:17):
teams but you, know they can bring in a job
or take team FROM. Nxt they can have them get
some big wins as a take team on ON Wb
maine event and make reference to, it and the announcers
could be. Talking And i've heard announcers do this over
the decades in different, territories you, know where they they
talk up an act that is improved over what you

(58:37):
previously saw because of, something you, know a new, chemistry new,
leadership a new. Manager AND i think fans are willing
to kind of hit the reset. Button cedric And shelton
should be in a higher place right now because her
business is such a cool act and lastly is in
a better. Place AND MVPs turned out to be the you,
know one of the surprises of the year as a
as A tv act, performer but they just haven't given

(59:03):
the enough evidence in terms of wins and. Victories in
fact the, opposite and then the announcers just haven't given
that endorsement to booy the. Act of, course announcers need
that more credibility than they. Do you, Know Michael hole
And Tom phillips especially have some baggage and there's been
damage in that. Way BUT i just think her business

(59:25):
should be in a better place In cedriic And shelton
are the ones who are kind of winging them down
by being mediocre in a shallow tag. Division last night
was a step in the right, direction but again they're
digging themselves out of a.

Speaker 2 (59:35):
HOLE i think they should have put the tag titles
on those guys the second you want to meet.

Speaker 3 (59:40):
Them the first, TIME i admit, IT i was. SURPRISED
i thought it was going to happen.

Speaker 2 (59:43):
THERE i thought they'd want out of The New Day
Street profits match and was pleasantly surprised that.

Speaker 3 (59:48):
They went ahead with.

Speaker 2 (59:49):
It and then when they had the, REMATCH i, Thought,
okay they must be putting the belts on these guys
because if they're big on her, business, YEAH i, mean
Lash lee's the. Powerhouse he's the belt, holder and the
singles belt, hold and THEN MVPs the talker and the other.

Speaker 3 (01:00:03):
Two this is a way to establish.

Speaker 2 (01:00:04):
That they're more than just along for the, ride and
they may still get, there BUT i don't think having
them lose a bunch of times before you put the
titles on them is doing them any.

Speaker 3 (01:00:14):
Good if you're going to put the.

Speaker 2 (01:00:16):
Titles on, them put the titles on them soon and
try to establish them that way and make it seem
they've already kind of damaged. It this should be, like,
wow you, Know New, day as many big matches they've,
won they haven't been able to beat these, Guys but
unfortunately they've already beaten them. Twice so even if they
do lose the tag, titles it's just not as much
of a mountain for them to climb to get those
titles back in the eyes of the.

Speaker 1 (01:00:37):
Fans AND i Think cedric And shelton way Down lashley's,
upside BECAUSE i Mean lashly is is he being utilized
as well as he did In Impact wrestling at his
peak or do you think They're BECAUSE i think this
is the best he's been utilized IN, wwe even counting
his first, run in terms of just seeming like the

(01:00:58):
things that are missing about them are important. Anymore and
he's being portrayed as a killer AND mvp is filling
in some of the weaknesses In lashley's overall skill set
And lashly's being portrayed as a. Monster he's not Just
lastly's not being thrown in the ring to just be
a guy in the, match like he's not there trading

(01:01:19):
fifty to fifty wins or losing by distraction. Finish he's
actually rarefied in a rarefied category of being one of
the protected top guys right. Now But CedarA can. Shaum
losing like they, DID i think actually pulls him down
because it makes hurt business less of the Four horsemen
of this era or THE nWo Or dix of this
era and more just, oh just another Fashion.

Speaker 2 (01:01:39):
Lashley so he's not as strong as he was in,
impact BUT i agree with everything you're.

Speaker 3 (01:01:45):
Saying it's just an.

Speaker 2 (01:01:45):
Impact he was the top, dog SO i think that
by definitely he was stronger, there but he's not far.
Off AND i totally agree this is the best they've
done with, him and that includes The trump and McMahon
thing where you know him and he JUST i think
he was it just him and, gosh what was what

(01:02:07):
was the damn? Match i'm struggling to even think of it.
Now was It? Lashlely. Umaga, yeah it just seems like
such a not matchup as a, heel and Obviously lashly
more often than not has been a.

Speaker 3 (01:02:18):
Heel but, YEAH i, mean they.

Speaker 2 (01:02:21):
Never got it right With lashley back in the, day
so this is the best they've done with, him AND
i do think he's going to be able to, EVENTUALLY
i think be a good strong contender for McIntire's. CHAMPIONSHIP
i don't know if THEY'LL i would do It wally
holds THE Us championship just just because why hav him

(01:02:42):
lose before? Then BUT i do think he's been built
up enough that he would seem like a credible. THREAT
i think there's a way to ferra him that has
a big showdown match at some.

Speaker 7 (01:02:49):
Point I'm Kelly, wells host of the Seven star, podcast
the New Ongoing torch show covering the world Of New
japan pro. Wrestling we'll drop new episodes as major shows
and noteworthy events, dictate And I'm Chris lansdowe join us

(01:03:10):
as we covered the ever changing landscape Of New japan
as they navigate an era with no lack of.

Speaker 2 (01:03:15):
Talent BUT i really need to create some news.

Speaker 3 (01:03:17):
Staves you can stream the new seven stop podcast now
From Pro Wrestling.

Speaker 1 (01:03:21):
Talk let's take a question here From brian From. Phoenix he,
Said Adam. PIERCE i haven't seen him. Wrestle the only

(01:03:45):
Reason i've heard of him is From sean radikin. Reports
my question is how Did Adam pierce get such a
high profile w job without ever wrestling for them ON?
Tv there are dozens of former wrestlers with W w
ties who would jump at producer and on air authority. Roles,
also can you give a short background on his wrestling
career like major few and Titles he's Held jason to
talk About Adam pierce because he's he's you, know better

(01:04:06):
Around Sam punk And cocabana on the indie. Scene he
had a long indie, career but he wasn't quite ever
for and you can speak to the reasons why a
guy that that was able to get that that, big you,
know major CABLE tv level. Contract why why was?

Speaker 3 (01:04:25):
THAT i think a lot of it was, timing just
being a different.

Speaker 2 (01:04:31):
Era you look At Adam, pearson you don't necessarily today
he would fit in with w W.

Speaker 3 (01:04:36):
Ee back when he was kind of in his in his, prime.

Speaker 2 (01:04:41):
They, weren't you, know they weren't looking for guys that
looked Like Adam pearce and worked like and worked like.
Him SO i go back to his early. DAYS i
saw a lot of him as the long haired pretty
boy babyface.

Speaker 3 (01:04:55):
WRESTLING i must have.

Speaker 1 (01:04:56):
Him confused with someone. ELSE i can't. Imagine, YEAH i remember.

Speaker 2 (01:04:59):
That, yeah, WELL i think he AND i Both in,
fact WHEN i saw him years, Later i'm, like he
stole my, haircut Thanks. Adam but he, so he was
a really good, babyface and this was at the indie,
level and then as time went on he definitely became
a strong heal multi TIME nwa. Champion granted it's you,

(01:05:23):
know it was a rough PERIOD i think for THE.
Nwa this was Pre Billy corgan buying the group and.
Everything but he was always a good champion and he
HAD i get to see one of the best of
seven matches that he had With Colt command and another
Steal domain show. Him in more recent, times he's been
a guy, that, like if you talk to his, peers
he is a good. Communicator he it's not so it's

(01:05:48):
gonna sound. Bad he knows how to play the, game
but it's not like he has this reputation for being ultra.
Political he just knows how to handle himself in backstage
situations and when you, know when the when you say
he the emailer, said you, know there's a lot of other
people that HAVE wwe.

Speaker 3 (01:06:03):
Experience who. Cares it's who's the right person for the.

Speaker 2 (01:06:06):
Job And i'm not even saying he, is But i'm just,
saying look at who they do have his. Producers there's
so many people in that company now that worked FOR
t AND a of all, places you, know so it's
not Just Adam pears.

Speaker 3 (01:06:20):
Who's coming in and taking one of those. JOBS i,
mean that's just who they're.

Speaker 2 (01:06:22):
Hiring BUT i think he as far as why he
didn't get, BIGGER i, mean with ww was the primary
game in. Town he did a little bit of work
With ring Of, honor but HE i JUST i think
had he like if he WERE i don't even know
how Old adam is right, now but let's say if
he were thirty years old and kind of in the

(01:06:43):
prime of his, Career i'm sure he'd be IN wwe
OR aw you know, somewhere or EVEN a these, days
maybe a higher profile role WITH.

Speaker 3 (01:06:51):
Roa she was a talented.

Speaker 2 (01:06:53):
Guy BUT i just can't believe they just ww Official
Adam pierce and they can't even bother to tell, you,
well who is? He why did he get this? Position
where does he rank in the? Hierarchy why should we
take him?

Speaker 3 (01:07:05):
Seriously?

Speaker 1 (01:07:06):
Nothing you, know he got the same amount of backstory
as Rare underground. Did it's just he's just. Here he's
just this is, it this is, here it IS i,
mean if he's good in his, role it doesn't disqualify
him for being an effective uh member of management in the,
fact is He you, know he kind of made these
cameos and became a familiar, face kind of like Like
Pat buck or you, Know Jamie. Noble you, know they

(01:07:27):
don't really talk about, Him oh Former ring mount Of
Champion jamie don't. Know they don't do, That and THEN
i DON'T i don't feel they need. To they barely
mention the names of their, Interviewers Sarah schreiber And Mackenzie
mitchell and. Such so you, know wrestler's referenced their first name,
sometimes but it's it's rare they get their name on the.
Screen so do would be just in, referees you, know
they went through the whole. Thing we're not gonna mention
referee names anymore, rightly because you know some of them

(01:07:48):
did podcasts and they had Name marc. Condition we don't
want to give them. Anybody we add names and recognition
to people who aren't helping us sell. Tickets adam p
here so for the reasons you, said he has this
common sense professionalism to the way he approaches. Business you,
KNOW i saw him be THE mc When Jim ross
couldn't make it to Ap Proasting hall Of fame, event

(01:08:09):
The Trego stays, event and just. Professional not remarkably, great
but you, know not remarkably charismatic or memorable in in
in what he. Did but you can tell he just
sort of, Like i'm gonna clock into work And i'm
gonna give you a good. Effort you, Know Leroy horde

(01:08:30):
the best quote. EVER i gotta do this like twice
a year or three times a. Year you, know if
you if you if you need a, yard there's A
viking back up running back if they're down running back.
Gos if you need a, Yard i'll get you. Three
if you need eight, Yards i'll get you three and
And and that's kind Of Adam, pierce like he's not
gonna jump off the. Page but for that, role that's

(01:08:53):
what you. Want you, KNOW i don't want SO i
don't Want. ENZO i don't Want enzo to be my
management making. DECISIONS i want a sober guy WHO i
imagine his ties are hung very symmetrically and organized at,
home you, know like That's Adam. Pierce so it. Works
but you, know he is one of those. GUYS i,
mean he he just he was like just brought on

(01:09:16):
to produce some do TO B tv when he wasn't
even under, Contract like he was just kind of a freelance,
guy and that was unusual for Dado by he earned
the spot he has by being professional and reliable and
in terms of the way he does his job really
good without a lot of bombast or star. Power and

(01:09:39):
that's just been kind of the story of his. Career
so you, know he's he's a success story in the
sense of somebody who brings professionalism and aptitude and communication
skills and level headed predictability to what he. Does that
now he's got a good gig and he's one of
my favorite authority. Figures like along with, Him Regal William
regel's more for personality Than Adam. Pierce BUT i Think

(01:10:01):
Adam pierce is what is one of two types of authority.
Figures you, know you can have The William regal type
or The Wally carbo type who are very much in.
Charge And wally was you know that he was an
a wa of co, promoter businessman WITH, rngani and he
was an iconic authority figure who threatened finds in. Suspensions

(01:10:21):
it's worth looking up on. YouTube but he was a,
fierce outspoken advocate for the rule of. Law there needs
to be. Order where there are, rules we need to
enforce them and if you break, them there will be.
Ramifications and That's William regal and but he was unabashedly
pro babyface in the sense that that stuff meant a
lot to. Him pierce is more the other guy who's

(01:10:43):
just trying to restore or keep order to make his
boss nsick man. Happy but he's kind of under distress
and he doesn't really have that strong. Personality And i'm
totally fine with that that the personality should be on the,
wrestlers not the authority. Figure SO i like him in
his role AND i think he's been good and he

(01:11:03):
is you, know it's kind of like this under the Radar.
Fiel good story for a guy who spent you, know
fifteen years in the indie scene and you, know had
a run And ring Of honor that was probably his most.
Prominent but now just is earning a steady paycheck AND
i think doing a good job behind the scenes and
now on.

Speaker 3 (01:11:20):
Camera, yeah very well respected.

Speaker 2 (01:11:22):
Too and and so some fans may not be aware
of his, history but he's done enough THAT i think
wrestlers who were students of the game respect him for
what he what he. Did it may not have, been you,
know under the bright lights OF, wwe but he did
have a successful, career involved in a lot of just
put in a lot of matches over the. Years and

(01:11:42):
so there's a respect factor there with him and the.
Talent and then he's managed to you, know just connect
With Vince micmahan to a point, obviously or he wouldn't
be in this. Position What i'd like to see them
do with him on the. Air call him a, commissioner you,
know go back to that. Title, yeah just to differentiate
and JUST i spend a minute running through the guy's.

(01:12:03):
HISTORY i don't care that it's with another company or.
Whatever just explain who he is come up with the
reason why he was put in this position and move
on and that. Way if anybody ever asks about, it well,
no they actually you, know they asked their, buddy, well
who is this? Guy, well here's what they told, us
and you could explain. It BECAUSE i came in to
THE awa long After Wally carbo had been fully established

(01:12:23):
as the authority. FIGURE i didn't need to know his.
HISTORY i just quickly figured, out, like, oh this guy's
the authority, figure AND i accept.

Speaker 3 (01:12:30):
That but WITH, wwe they've had so many over the.

Speaker 2 (01:12:32):
Years some are, heels some are fa all that it's
just been a mess, this you. KNOW i like the
idea of just having an old School Jack honey type
who just shows up and announces big matches or issues key.
Rulings AND i Think pierce that they're going to want
him to do a little bit more than. That BUT
i think less is more with that with that role these.

Speaker 1 (01:12:51):
Days if you missed it, earlier just a, reminder we're
running our SECOND vip sale of the. Year we don't
do these often take advantage of it. Now it is
a limit the time. Offer take nine dollars off A
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(01:13:12):
v twenty twenty, five and that takes nine dollars. Off
when you check out on our signup form pw torch dot,
com slash go vi ip give you full details on
membership benefits and links to our sign up. Form all,
RIGHT i Mentioned ring Of. Honor we're talking About Adam
Pierce jason talk about the presentation and formatting of THE

(01:13:36):
tv show With ring Of honor and what they have
done sort of in THE covid era and now to
create a distinct AND i don't want to say, successful
but acclaimed NICHE i, guess or presentation of the product
in the tone that they've. TAKEN i Mean ring Of
honor And Impact wrestling because of a win part AND

(01:13:58):
nxt Even priority aw are kind of scratching and. Klon you,
know for so long it Was dodwe's number, one and
then it Was impact Or dode's number, one and it's
maybe ro, oh Maybe. Impact in the in terms Of
United states based, companies running shows regularly and running pay per,
views and because OF, nxt that took some market share
and some talent away From ring Of honor and kind
of took their. Spot and NOW aw has come in

(01:14:21):
and it's just there's not a lot of oxygen in
the room Beyond Ross, SmackDown nxt AND Aw dynamite for
for much. Conversation so you have longtime brands Like Impact
wrestling And ring Of honor try to create a. Net
you also HAVE mlw back with original content and those
are the primary. Ones you, Know New japan is, there
but not you, know it's it's a it's a different

(01:14:43):
type of story with. Them and Yeh nwa was in
the mix and we'll see what they have up their,
sleep but focused on Just ring Of honor for for a.
Moment what do you like that you? SEE i mean,
it WHEN i watch, it it jumps out as like
this is a different. Presentation and Actually ricochet's promo last

(01:15:03):
night On raw reminded me a little bit about WHAT
i like About ring Of honor, promos where you, know
you see J lethal talk And Jay lethal is talking
like a regular human being about the reality that fans
see in the thoughts that are in their, mind and
then he enhances that as opposed to just like propaganda
and this really narrow lane that would be announcers and

(01:15:25):
wrestlers are allowed to. Drive and that fits, exactly you
know What vince wants. Communicated it feels more sports, like
feels more connected to reality it and AND i like,
that AND i do you? Agree like the Little ricochet
thing last night was a glimpse into how to better
Utilize ricochet on THE, mic because he's better in that
situation than he is in the other the backstage scripted

(01:15:46):
stuff that they have for.

Speaker 2 (01:15:47):
HIM i got to, say retribution and their grand plan
to take OVER wwe is Attacking. RICOCHET i mean this is, like,
yeah You're antifa and you want to take over the,
government and so you just go beat up one city
councilman and call it a. DAY i, mean it's just so.
Stupid but, Anyway ring Of. Honor ring Of Honor wrestling

(01:16:08):
is the most improved television show that pro wrestling has
to offer in twenty. Twenty this going into the pandemic,
break they were trying some new. Things at that, point
they had turned things over To Marty's girl from a creative.
Standpoint obviously that didn't work out because Of Marty's girl's
out of ring, issues and so we never really got

(01:16:30):
to see What Marty's girl had in. Mind they went
back To Hunter johnston Aka, delirious AND i think he
was able to recharge his batteries and he needed. It that,
show the weekly television, show was that it was a.
Mess it was oftentimes they just felt like they it
was this burden on. Them let's put out three. Matches
if we have time for a promo grade that's. It

(01:16:53):
where now the new format ever since they've come. Back
it started with The Pure Title. TOURNAMENT i was so
happy that it wasn't just or that. Tournament their new
approach is to do a couple of. Matches it seems each.
WEEK i think one episode may have had, three but
it seems by and large it's two episodes each, week
and they're giving before the matches take. Place those wrestlers

(01:17:14):
get sit down promos and talk about the, matches what
it means to, them maybe give a little bit of
history on, themselves and as you, said they're doing it
in a normal. Tone Shane taylor's a guy who will
pull lean into his character a little bit and it
works in this setting. Too Like leon San GIOVANNI. LSG
i have him on this Week's boom podcast AND i asked,

(01:17:36):
him you, know you've been around this company for a long.
Time the promo that you got to, deliver the sit
down promo before your match With Jay lethal, recently was
that more promo time in one segment than you ever
received combined on the ring of on a wrestling television.
Show and he said, Yes AND i assumed it would.
Be it's giving these people a chance to a stapablish their.

(01:18:00):
Characters it gives people a chance to establish what the
match is. About if you just turn if you just
turn On ring Of Honor. Cold let's say you're a
casual fan and you just dumble upon this, show you're
going to feel by the end of that, show you're
going to be into those two matches at air and
they're going to leave you wanted to come back for
more because you're learning about these. Characters everyone in the
wrestling industry should be watching, this AND i don't think

(01:18:23):
it's just this revolutionary. THING i think it's in a
lot of ways emulating WHAT ufc has, done WHAT mma has.
Done but everyone should be watching this show and learning
from it because there's just not enough good character development
in other companies and it was a real weakness of
a ring of honor until this. Started AND i can
just see the. Difference there's people That i'm starting to

(01:18:45):
care about as a viewer that it just didn't. Before
it's totally Worth it's an hour long, show totally worth.

Speaker 1 (01:18:51):
Watching how ABOUT mlw they're back after hiatus on new.
Programming where do they fit on a landscape and where
do you think they're heading in twenty twenty? One what
do you admire about what Cork bauer is trying to
do to keep that niche in that slice of the.

Speaker 2 (01:19:11):
Marketplace, YES i like that they've kind of overhauled the,
roster and some of it may have been.

Speaker 3 (01:19:19):
A.

Speaker 2 (01:19:20):
NECESSITY i don't know who all they had access, to
but they're coming back pretty strong after their pandemic, break
bringing In ach And Leo rush And i'm Forgetting so
there's several people they've brought. In they're doing The Opera cup,
tournament which is just an eight man singles tournament for
a Legit Opera cup that goes back To Stu Hart's

(01:19:41):
day's and was donated TO mlw and it's their second
time doing. It IT'S i haven't got as good of
a feel for that show As ring Of honor, yet
BECAUSE i think we're only two ins so.

Speaker 3 (01:19:52):
FAR i Think wednesday will be the third. Episode BUT
i like What i've seen so.

Speaker 2 (01:19:56):
Far they've done a good job Of they have that
low hum that just from the you, know the added
enhanced crowd. Noise they tried to explain it by claiming
there's people high rollers up in the, balcony but you
just you get that feel watching the show that there's moments,
like you, know High sponsor's not that big surge and,
rush but otherwise you do kind of forget that there's

(01:20:18):
not a crowd there while you're watching some of.

Speaker 3 (01:20:19):
This so they're doing a good job with.

Speaker 2 (01:20:21):
That as far as where they fit in the, LANDSCAPE
i think scratching and, clawing you, know like everybody other
THAN aw AND wwe right now trying to find their,
place trying to establish, themselves and they have some streaming.
Deals they have their deal with b In. Sports is
it going to be? ENOUGH i don't. KNOW i hope,
so BECAUSE i do think it's not like this totally unique,

(01:20:45):
vision but the. Vision whatever the vision, is it's an effective.
One they do a good job with things IN. MLW
i do enjoy that. Show IF i enjoyed almost Everything
i'm watching these, days there's it's it's not like a
Like ring Of honorius to be a show that they
just dreaded because it was so. Frustrating they have so
many talented, people but the show has just thrown together
and that's not the. Case and everybody seems to have

(01:21:06):
up their game here during the. Pandemics so it'll be
interesting to see what THE nwa has in.

Speaker 1 (01:21:10):
Mind, YES, nwa and Then Impact wrestling, too like when
people get frustrated With deo by AND i, UNDERSTAND i
mean the run in excuse. Me the distraction finishes right
now are JUST i, MEAN i don't even know how
to express The vince's overindulgence in these distraction. Finishes it's

(01:21:32):
like it's become an art form for him to come
up with creative ways to keep doing something that should
just be abandoned or you, know cut out ninety eight,
PERCENT i mean nineteen out of twenty these finishes should
be stop for. Us it's, like remember there's been eras
where like run ins where the thing or eras where

(01:21:55):
ref bumps were done too, much and then there's stretches
a time where low blow is the finished zure this
this distraction, thing it's like that, ALONE i, think is
going to be driving people. Away it's completely undercutting the
idea that you should pay attention to near falls and
invest in matches when the deciding factor is and how
good a wrestler, is how good their hold, is what

(01:22:15):
their strategy, is which are all things you can tell story.
Wise with a promoter who cares about that stuff and
producers who are given the latitude to put their efforts,
there all the effort is going into how do we
come up with a new spin on a wrestler being?
Distracted and then they think they justify it by having
distractions that actually lead to the wrestler who got distracted winning,
anyway and does not do. IT i, mean, yes it

(01:22:37):
makes it a little less. Predictable it's better than having the
distraction always lead to the person who gets distracted. Losing
but you're doubling down on something that needs to be gone.
Away SO i went off on a tangent on. That
so let's actually cover that briefly and Then i'll get
back to WHERE i was. Headed what the Hell jason
have you? Ever it doesn't seem as bad to you
as it does to me and others right? Now how

(01:22:57):
much they're leaning on, That.

Speaker 2 (01:22:59):
Yes IT'S i, mean they're always trying to protect, people and,
like at some point you have to stop and be
honest yourself and, say we can't protect. Everyone we're not
elevating the. Right you, know no one's benefiting when we
try to protect. Everyone and that's WHAT i see them.
Doing AND i.

Speaker 3 (01:23:15):
Mean.

Speaker 2 (01:23:18):
There's so many things about THE ww but you, know
smack dwn's been a pretty good, show but the raw
product is so bad right, now that's a show THAT
i dread. Watching, unfortunately there's moments you know pretty much
put you, know usually What drew mcintarre And Randy orton are,
doing and there's some other moments along.

Speaker 3 (01:23:33):
The, way but it's just a bad show.

Speaker 2 (01:23:35):
There how many times are they going to try to
sell me on watching The miz And John morrison in
the main event when those two mean absolutely.

Speaker 3 (01:23:42):
Nothing they've just destroyed.

Speaker 2 (01:23:44):
Them those are two guys they did nothing to, protect
but they at the same time want us to believe. That,
well because miss has the money in the bank contract
they belong to the main events. Loot, no they don't
that they've ruined those guys and it's too. Bad and
there's just so many people like who are the, Heels,
WELL i guess they're feuding with each. Other They're Randy
orton in The fiend and there's a j and then Who?
Braun maybe when he's. Around they. Don't they think they're protecting,

(01:24:10):
people but in reality they really. Don't it's just a,
bad bad product right.

Speaker 1 (01:24:16):
NOW i, Know i'm JUST i just am waiting for
the week When vince realizes they've over they've overdone, it
and they just just go cold, turkey you, KNOW i,
mean just we're not doing. It we're gonna come up
with all kinds of other ways to do. It like
he gets really into something like, when, oh we can't
do a commercial break while the match is in, progress
so we're gonna do the restart and reset or.

Speaker 3 (01:24:37):
Whatever that, Was oh, god the.

Speaker 1 (01:24:39):
Worst, yeah we're gonna change the match from this to,
this so there's a pause and whatever that. Was like
he gets he kind of just gets his fetish where
he wants to. Do he does something and it just
grows and, grows and it's the thing to. DO i
almost feel like it's a it's a, joke like it's
an inside joke and they're just seeing how long people
will still watch the program before you, know rebelling against
which is very bad business that you should never do.
It you should never be suspicious that a business is

(01:25:01):
trying to drive away customers as a secret plot to
see if they can drive away. Customers but that's how
this booking. Feels SO i say all that as in
the premise for it BEFORE i went off on the.
Rant is there are other options out. There give yourself
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(01:25:23):
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(01:25:47):
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(01:26:07):
pw torch dot com slash paper. Copy, so speaking of
other options right, now we don't know enough about THE,
nwa but we talked ABOUT mlw And ring Of. Honor
how Is impact doing because coming out of what was,

(01:26:30):
It slammerversary when they got all the new, NAMES i
always the names.

Speaker 3 (01:26:33):
Of, yeah, yeah it was.

Speaker 1 (01:26:35):
Yeah so how do you grade their use of the
acquired talent that Debuted anderson And gallows AND ec three
And heath's running Kway gell. Himself that shouldn't be that
hard and, on, like how do you grade their use of?
Them who who had they done a good job with
and not a good job with in these? Months BECAUSE

(01:26:55):
i felt like that was their chance to kind of
grab hold of some of wrestle fans attention who had
sort of, thought, well IF i have, TIME i have,
time AND i never have time AND i thought that
was their chance to grab some people and take themselves
kind of to the next level by adding some depth
and some. Intrigue how do you grade their performance on that?

Speaker 3 (01:27:13):
Level you almost have to go case by case with.

Speaker 2 (01:27:16):
It Like Eric, YOUNG i would give like a probably
AN a two just the fact that they made him
the world. Champion they weren't hesitant about what he did IN.
Wwe they just moved ahead and positioned him strongly and it.
WORKED i give them probably A B b plus For
gallows And. Anderson they've tried to make them feel like
a big deal every step of the.

Speaker 3 (01:27:36):
Way they get like A.

Speaker 2 (01:27:38):
C at best FOR ec, Three BUT i don't know
that HE i, mean he's doing more In ring Of honor,
now so may have just been a quick one and
done feud With moose that really wasn't all that. COMPELLING
i don't know what his future hole what the future
holds FOR ec three and.

Speaker 3 (01:27:52):
Impact i'm just not sure at.

Speaker 2 (01:27:53):
All and Then heath gets like AN f just because,
hey let's recreate WHAT i did IN wwe rather than re. Event,
no it's it's that hasn't been. Good let's see who
else has there? BEEN i know there have been others with.

Speaker 1 (01:28:07):
That's those are the only ones that came to, Mind.

Speaker 3 (01:28:10):
Davari they get AN f.

Speaker 2 (01:28:11):
Minus now he didn't show up At, slammiversary but he.
Did dave return last week On Impact, wrestling only to
have like a thirty second match and then be beaten
up along with his opponent BY i don't even remember.

Speaker 3 (01:28:25):
WHO i didn't get.

Speaker 2 (01:28:26):
That at, All like you could have had anyone in
that role.

Speaker 1 (01:28:29):
The city Of Machine, GUNS i, guess.

Speaker 3 (01:28:31):
Yeah they would get AN. A.

Speaker 2 (01:28:33):
Yeah they those guys are just so much better than
they were in The ring Of. Honor they were the
dullest men on earth the whole time they were In
ring Of, honor the most vanilla personalities and, oh we
just want to take everyone under our, wing like get
off MY tv where now they just they feel like
they once did and they've always been awesome in the
ring and they haven't lost a.

Speaker 3 (01:28:51):
Step they've been really. Good.

Speaker 1 (01:28:52):
Yeah the, uh the news On Jimmy rave is. Scary
update people on on that what happened, There AND i
mean it's we're talking a little bit about about, him you,
know we're talking About ring Of honor and, stuff and
he was And impact. WRESTLING i mean he Was he's
a guy who had a you, know pretty decent. CAREER

(01:29:14):
i thought he would have done. More but, anyway, yeah
talk about some people know what was going on with
his arm having to be.

Speaker 2 (01:29:19):
Amputated SO i only know what's on His instagram, page
which is essentially that he got he had an infection
in his arm and tried to kind of tough it.
OUT i don't know if he knew that it was
an infection and what it, was but he just tried
to tough it out through the, pain and by the
time he ended up going to the, doctor the infection
was bad enough that they had to. AMPUTATE i believe
from the elbow down it.

Speaker 1 (01:29:39):
Was AND i think he SAID i love the elbow.

Speaker 3 (01:29:41):
Down, yeah, YEAH i think you're.

Speaker 2 (01:29:43):
Right so, yeah just a horrible thing for, him, obviously
and he announced his retirement from wrestling as a result of.
That but, yeah just, WOW i, mean cuff, Blow i'll
listen to your body.

Speaker 1 (01:29:57):
Folks, yeah and you, KNOW i mean he. HIT i
at one point thought he was gonna have a, bigger
better career run than he, did And i'm not quite
sure what. HAPPENED i, mean he's kind of a.

Speaker 2 (01:30:11):
LOT i think he had some personal issues that he
alluded to at one.

Speaker 3 (01:30:14):
Point, yeah they have derailed some.

Speaker 1 (01:30:15):
Things and LIKE i saw him charisma, wise kind of
in the category of what you're saying On shelley And,
Saban and he was kind of that generation where he
had a good, look he had good, size but there
wasn't just that that personality that leaped. Out you're, like,
ah this is what we can do with. Him so
if you combine, that you, know some people overcome that
and get a push, anyway you, know but he didn't

(01:30:36):
quite overcome personal issues or reputational issues or or that
kind of. Thing but if you don't have that just
ABSOLUTE x factor like A Darby, allen there's AN x.
Factor enzo had AN x, factor or you just have,
size you need a chance after. Chance he just kind
of was in that zone where if he didn't do
everything right behind the, scenes his good ring work and good,

(01:30:59):
look but not jump off the. Page what's you know?
NOW i know what to do with his. Character, look
it just he didn't quite get get to that next.
Level and so, YEAH i mean it's just it's a,
bummer obviously more than a bummer for, him you, know
going through what he's going, through and to have it
just happened so, SUDDENLY i, mean what a what a free.
Thing but you know he's he's gonna move on to

(01:31:20):
the next, chapter you, know whatever that. Is but, YEAH
i felt it was worth worth noting that because he
did us some good matches and and and did some good.
Work i'm not even sure like what the peak period
of his career would be in terms of the. YEAR
i don't quite in my, mind haven't mapped, out BUT
i know there were times where it's, like ah, yeah
both In ring Of honor and, impact where he was
doing some good, stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:31:40):
He just never seem to get that sustained push or you,
know he really was never truly. Elevated he just kind
of kept waiting for it to, happen and it never
really did in either.

Speaker 1 (01:31:49):
COMPANY i know WHEN i interviewed, him he felt like
he was a bit of an introvert to in terms
of the just emoting that it felt a little forced
and he never quite got in a groove in terms
of having kind of that that, bombaster that confidence that's.
Needed and when you're kind of an, introverter you come
across asn't secure whatever your real personality. Is if you
come across that, way you know promoters will be, like,

(01:32:11):
well look elsewhere a little bit before looking at, You
and if someone else catches their, eye then they just
get that. Opportunity and it is, crazy how you, know
how you carry yourself is a big factor in.

Speaker 8 (01:32:21):
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Speaker 6 (01:32:29):
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Speaker 1 (01:33:33):
Com all, right let's jump back to uh or let's
actually jump TO nxt for a minute and talk about.
Working so they'll be doing a more in depth preview This.
Thursday But, jason how do you feel about the McAfee

(01:33:55):
and company Against Undisputed era as of you, know they've
got one more show to go tomorrow night to type,
this but are you are you feeling this as a
worthy WARGAMES i, mean IF i would have if you
would have told, me oh, Yeah wargames is going to
headline on A sunday Night Takeover special With Onny lork
And Danny birch And Pete dunn and some guy who

(01:34:17):
only has one. MATCH i would like what BUT i
think they've done a pretty good job they.

Speaker 3 (01:34:24):
Have it's really.

Speaker 2 (01:34:25):
Rushed you could see the moment that McAfee aligned With,
GOSH i don't even. REMEMBER i think it Was birch
And larcan, First, Like, okay that's whe they're. Going this
is being done for wargames because of course they have
to make wargames a calendar event rather than just, hey
let's save it for when we want to use.

Speaker 3 (01:34:42):
IT i, WISH i mean used to it on the main.

Speaker 2 (01:34:45):
ROSTER i can't believe Like Paul levec is like cool
with that and thinks that's the way to. GO i
shake my head at. It but, YEAH i mean it's
it is, rushed but it's weird BECAUSE i don't even
Like Undisputed, AIR i guess or baby faces, now but
they really haven't had. That, yeah they feel like their
baby face is because Of pat McAfee more than. Anything

(01:35:06):
the last, takeover we were wondering if On Dispeeded air
was going to stay together coming out of. IT i
think it was the last one If cole.

Speaker 3 (01:35:15):
Was going to turn on o'reiley and where that was.

Speaker 2 (01:35:17):
Going they, were you, know kind of dealt a tough
blow When Ridge holland suffered that. INJURY i think they
obviously wanted him to be the fourth man in this.
Faction but you, KNOW i, MEAN i feel bad For Ridge,
holland BUT i Think Pete dunn is a significant upgrade
as far as what he can do in the, ring
AND i think he is just a hell of a.
Performer SO i think on that side of, things, yeah

(01:35:40):
they've done a nice, job BUT i don't sense any
buzz when it comes to this takeover special and some of.
IT i, MEAN i think Aw is has done a
really good job of building Up wednesday show and that's getting.

Speaker 3 (01:35:54):
More buzzed With moxley And omega.

Speaker 2 (01:35:56):
And what is the Next he put out one match
for this go home show and that's, It, Like you're
you're not even gonna put up a fight against Aw
the winter is coming and is your go home?

Speaker 3 (01:36:08):
Show what are you?

Speaker 1 (01:36:08):
THINKING i, know it really feels like they're playing long
ball and not trying to win the, week AND i
mean there's something to be said for. THAT i feel
like the shows we see WITH nxt feel like the
shows would be seeing IF aw aired On tuesday. Nights you,
KNOW i JUST i feel like they have that they
think they are battling for their own, viewers and they're

(01:36:32):
going about their business the way that they do their,
business regardless of WHAT aw is doing in THE ebb
and flow and the timing of things and not, Counterprogramming
AND i mean there's something to be said for. That you,
know if you believe in your, system and you believe
in you your pace and your cadence and what you,
do then you, know go about your business and in
the long, run kind of hyperventilating over a quarter hour

(01:36:52):
or or one week, viewership you, know probably isn't gonna
make that much of a. Difference we know they care
because of you, know starting two weeks early in some
of the stuff they did early. On BUT i think
there comes a point of, resignation which, is, well we're
pretty close in the ratings in terms of the percentage
of homes tuned, in BUT aw is more people per
home WATCHING, us and so they, do and they have

(01:37:12):
they've captured the younger, viewers AND i don't think they
feel they can do a lot about that although you
can see them tweaking things in terms of incorporating more,
comedy more you, know more. Characters you know they're. THERE
i get the sense behind the scenes there's been edicts
or creative decisions to, experiment you, Know robert Stone, brand
we need to do more. Comedy, yeah you know where

(01:37:36):
where they're trying, there they're trying to incorporate other things
other than a straight laced sparks like wrestling, show and
and it's you, know some some things work better than, others,
obviously but BUT I i agree with you just announcing
the one women's qualifier match this week as a go
home show up AGAINST. AW i think it's sort of
asking for trouble because you're sort of telling your your

(01:37:57):
SAVVY nxt viewers who also will watch a double you
and are you know they're, up they're up. Forbid you,
know they're they're they're they're, Swayable and you're just basically, saying,
YEAH i go WATCH. Aw you know that's a big.
Show AND i Know tony conn and the media conference earlier,
Today Sean radkin's got a detailed report up on pw
torch dot. Com you know Said wednesday show is going
to feel real different than other, shows and people are

(01:38:19):
going to be wondering about the. Format there's going to
be a lot of talk about. IT i like. THAT
i like Hearing tony talk that. Way i'm more intrigued
to see the. Show he. Says it's going to be
presented kind of pay per view like with kind of
an order of matches in magnitude going up to the
main event With Max. Kenny so you, know both companies
kind of are. EXPERIENCE i like WHEN i like WHEN
aw And Tony conn experiment with, stuff and especially when

(01:38:39):
they have a reason to do. So but this does
feel like this has the possibility of being an absolute
blowout because of like you, SAID nxt as of now
is advertising one match and just sort of it's the
go home show For takeover and.

Speaker 2 (01:38:52):
Didn't even make it clear is this a ladder match?
Again BECAUSE i think last year both of the War
Games advantage singles matches were last, matches but they didn't
emphasize last week that it's a ladder matching QUICK i
don't think they NEED i think it feels a little,
overboard like really you need to have a ladder mash
to determine who gets the advantage in. Wargames why but you,

(01:39:14):
KNOW i, mean they couldn't even mother to tell you.
That so it wasn't like last week was a terrible.
Show BUT i do question sometimes if they've convinced themselves,
well advertising the day of and getting that late surge
from the internet is going to lead to. SOMETHING i
think you're better off directly advertising to the audience you,
have especially last week when their audience was.

Speaker 1 (01:39:34):
Help, yeah, yep we are running our SECOND vip sale
of the. Year you want to take advantage of. This
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(01:39:54):
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(01:40:38):
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(01:41:00):
dollars off a one, month three month or one year
Sub the future Of pat McAfee as an. Act do
you do you think we're talking about him in two
years or do you think this is sort of him
a lark in his, Career and have you got any

(01:41:23):
sense from anything he said or you've heard as far
as that.

Speaker 2 (01:41:25):
Goes, No i'm not. SURE i GUESS i wouldn't be
surprised if we are still talking about. HIM i, mean
he's been pretty committed to this for a long, time
training that he did and then just doing what he's
done as a broadcast team member IN, nxt doing pre
shows and. Things he obviously loves the, business AND i,

(01:41:45):
mean he's done well for himself and he has other.
Ventures BUT i don't know that you're going to see
him full. TIME i can't imagine he's gonna want to
go on the road WITH nxt full time or.

Speaker 3 (01:41:54):
Anything but could he be a.

Speaker 2 (01:41:57):
Guy that does what he's been doing and it pops
up for a month here and there to do a big.
MATCH i don't see any reason why he. Could and
he's very good at, it especially the promo.

Speaker 1 (01:42:07):
Part AND i don't want to LIKE i don't want
to like, him you, know like he's he's a kind
of like the kind of PERSONALITY i don't. WANT i
WISH i could be ripping on like he doesn't belong ON.
Tv and, no he's like really, good like he's good
at what he, does so you, KNOW i, mean that's
a good. Heel you know YOU i would boo, him
you know IF i went to a.

Speaker 2 (01:42:25):
Show and also everything that made him so unlikable as
a personality when he was just hosting the pre shows
makes him the perfect. HEEL I the thing THAT i
don't Understand wade is who are these people that like that?
Personality they don't see him as a heel and they
want to listen to his, podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:42:42):
The same people who watch a lot of reality television
shows with with bombastic male, figures like, yeah, yeah Real.
Ripley what's what's going on with? Her she's staying AT
nxt although hints were, there she. Wasn't how do you
feel about what they've done with? Her have? They have?
They her dignity as a character is. There Unlike, riddle

(01:43:03):
she's framed as a big, Deal Unlike Keith, lee who
it's you, know hit or, miss mostly miss in terms
of taking advantage of. Him but this was supposed to
be her year to sort of rise to be a top.
Star i've heard of no baggage or no reason that
she would that they'd be throttling, that and yet she's
turning into the rising star who can't win the Big
one and is now you, know staying IN, nxt And

(01:43:25):
TRIPLE h, said, oh see you, through see it. THROUGH
i don't know what the end date was when we're
supposed to. Go, ah, now it all makes, sense And
i'm not saying that isn't, There but how do you
feel about where she is in the story they're Telling.

Speaker 3 (01:43:36):
They dropped the? Ball, yeah big.

Speaker 2 (01:43:38):
Time They she was one of the most over people
IN nxt going Into, WrestleMania and long before she did
anything With, charlotte they damaged. Her and you, know, Yes
charlotte took time away AND i think it has been
going longer than anyone. Anticipated there was thought that she
was going to be back For SummerSlam even and that hasn't.

Speaker 3 (01:43:57):
Happened so she'd been away for a.

Speaker 2 (01:43:58):
While maybe they something playing With, charlotte BUT i just
wouldn't have messed with. It if you weren't going to
have her Beat charlotte At, WrestleMania then don't book the.
Match why why cool her off like? That and, YEAH i,
mean as you mentioned In, paulovac, oh it's going to make.
Sense we're still waiting and if this was you, MENTIONED

(01:44:18):
i hadn't really thought of. This if it, was, well
she's that character that can't win the big. One, well
that's something you can play. With you can build up
to that moment where she finally. Does but she's been
there and done. Already so part of me is like
happy that she's staying IN nxt and won't be subjected
to the awful main roster. Booking but this year's booking

(01:44:39):
off her really hasn't been any better than the main
roster would.

Speaker 1 (01:44:41):
Do, yeah, yeah AND i MEAN i still think she
can have a great, career but it just feels like
they're needlessly adding barriers to what could be real. Momentum
and it's not like the depth and the division it's.
GREAT i, mean what's up with Car? Mela like she
used to have you could describe who she, was and

(01:45:03):
now she's sort of LIKE i really liked What Mandy
rose And Dana brooke And lana And lacey were, doing
So i'm going to be an, interchangeable slightly different but
not significantly different version of.

Speaker 2 (01:45:15):
Them she's a Blonde David.

Speaker 3 (01:45:18):
MARIE i don't.

Speaker 1 (01:45:19):
Know, YEAH i MEAN i like.

Speaker 2 (01:45:22):
Them i'm willing to give this a chance because when
they first gave her the, title she clearly wasn't ready
for it in the. Ring but she was a really
good performer on the, mic and, they you, know clearly
placed the emphasis on. That but she wasn't ready for
it in the. Ring and she's come a long. WAY
i don't know that she's ever, gonna you, know win
The wrestler of The year award or anything like, that
but she has improved and she's, still you, know a good,

(01:45:45):
performer so hopefully.

Speaker 3 (01:45:46):
She can make this.

Speaker 2 (01:45:47):
Work, yeah, YEP i just. DON'T i don't want to
watch her moonlock ever. Again so there's.

Speaker 1 (01:45:51):
That, yeah, Small we'll take small victory sometimes when it
comes to. That Uh, okay back Back Tennis steve for a.
Minute The North american title. Situation what do you think
about what they've done With Leon ruff and has this
storyline helped or Hurt Damien? PRIEST i, Mean Johnny garganel's a.
Blast he's one of my favorite people to watch right now. Too,
Yes But Damian priest like the way he's plying off

(01:46:16):
Of Leon ruff and kind of patronizing, him and the
Way Leon ruff is kind of pushing, back you, KNOW i.
DON'T i feel like they're making fans choose between two characters,
who on separate paths would be being portrayed as really.
Likable but it's adding a dynamic to the match that
makes a triple threat sort of worth. Having even Though
i'm on principle against triple threat, matches this is a

(01:46:36):
case where you kind of understand, storyline why is why it's.

Speaker 3 (01:46:38):
HAPPENING i like what they've.

Speaker 2 (01:46:40):
Done that segment where rough one The championship was so much.
FUN i thought that was just a. Blast and With Damian, priest,
yeah it's a little awkward at the, moment BUT i
still think this is going to end with the two
of them being buddies and not long, term but enough to, like,
okay you, know, yeah they add some, friction but they're,
fine and it's okay to like pret again if you're

(01:47:00):
somebody siding With Leon. Ruff but early, ON i mean
he was helping. HIM i actually think it's been good
For priests just to show a little bit of a
lighter So i'd be able to kind of get under
the skin Of Johnny organo Through Leon.

Speaker 3 (01:47:13):
Ruff you, know he's been helping.

Speaker 2 (01:47:17):
The ultimate underdog kind of, character so, YEAH i think
when you know they before they had the friction, THERE
i thought it was good for him AND i think
it'll be fine coming out of.

Speaker 3 (01:47:25):
This, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:47:26):
Yep you don't have to wait for the Way Keller
Prog wrestling post show to find out WHAT i thought
Of Monday Night raw And. SmackDown each, week you can
check out my reports that are updated live Throughout raw
And SmackDown at pwtorch dot. Com my written report will
tell you what's happening in detail in case you missed the,

(01:47:48):
show and it'll also analyze key segments and give my
random thoughts quips on WHAT i am watching as it.
Airs so check it out Every monday night And tuesday
night at pete W. Torch that also applies TO wwe
pay per. VIEWS i cover those live at pw torch
dot com with a detailed written report with star, ratings
and of course you can find OTHER tv reports from

(01:48:10):
other contributors to pw torch such as NXT, r O,
H Impact wrestling and. More check it out pw torch
dot com your first stop FOR tv and pay per
views written. Reports all, right we Have we've gone this

(01:48:34):
far without talking About roman. Reigns which is kind of
crazy considering what he's. Doing and on the most watched wrestling, Show,
uh what do you where are you now compared to
the last time we Talked jason three weeks ago on
on on the character and the chapters that we've seen
with his, character the hypocrisy of Embracing jusso helping him,

(01:48:57):
win but then chewing him out five days for defying
his orders to get out of the. BUILDING i assume
that was. Intentional and although the announcers are not allowed
to react like regular human beings would to things that
all of viewers, see so they didn't really condemn or confirm.
It they just Said rains had an assist in his,
victory is neutral and non judgmental to term as you

(01:49:17):
can have for a low blow and outside and outside
interference in a major match between. Champions So i'm frustrated
by w b's utilization of announcers in storytelling to kind
of let us know what is, accidental what is, happenstance
and what is a point of emphasis that you're looking?
For where are you On rains and the points of
emphasis on the unveiling in the expansion of this new

(01:49:40):
Heel at, character.

Speaker 2 (01:49:42):
Thoroughly Enjoying Roman ranch and what he's done as a.
Heel it's not even WHEN i envisioned all those years
we spent love turn this man. Heel it's not WHAT i,
envisioned but it's really been. Effective he's playing it so.

Speaker 1 (01:49:56):
Well and what makes him good as a heel is
what made him mad as a, babyface which is why
we should have seen the.

Speaker 2 (01:50:00):
Coming, yeah, yeah He's paul him is, there but it
feels like he's along for the ride more often than.
Not and not that he's not aiding in, this BUT i,
mean this isn't all. Right roman just stands there While
paul does all the mic work like he did for Brock.
Lessner it's not that it's very, different And roman is
very much the. Kingpin AND i could kind of see

(01:50:21):
that whole manipulation Of jay coming as far As jay helped,
him but he did tell him to leave the. Building
SO i was wondering if it was if that's the
direction they were going, in or if that just would
be commniely, forgotten AND i was happy that they actually
brought that. Up it makes me, wonder Is jay eventually
going to snap and we're going to get another match
between those, TWO i can't say That i'm really looking forward.

(01:50:45):
To like the match itself would be, fine BUT i
like the long term idea Of rains and the USO's
together as a heel. Unit So i'm hoping at some
point Like jay is just going to be able to
settle in and it's not going to be able to
friction between the. Two But i'm enjoying the ride wherever
this is, going and He, Yeah roman's just doing a fantastic.

Speaker 1 (01:51:07):
Job what do you on the raw side of, Things
what do you think About drew McIntyre and the what
we're seeing as far as his personality. Goes it feels
like he's loosening up a little bit and, still in
his own, way on a journey to figure out how
he's going to portray himself as a. Babyface is he
going to be you, know super, formal bordering on. Uptight
i'm super intense And i'm serious AND i am the

(01:51:27):
Greatest Or is he going to joke around and let
his guard down a little. Bit it feels like he's
playing around with letting his guard down more than he
had in the. PAST i don't want to read too
much into. It BECAUSE i don't think it's like a
big broad brushstroke decision as much as circumstantial decisions in
the moment done how to portray. Him but maybe it

(01:51:47):
is part of a strategy to you, know show more
of who he. Is BECAUSE i, still as much As
i'm a fan Of drew McIntyre as champion and the
work he's, done it is kind of hard To it's
LIKE i, asked that's about Keny omega a few weeks,
ago like how would you describe to somebody not watching
wrestling who The kenyomega character? Is and this, was you,
know a few weeks back before we started seeing some

(01:52:09):
real definitive signs With drew. McIntyre it is kind of
hard to, explain like what his character. Is and it
doesn't mean it has to be, like, oh, riddle you,
know a dopey whatever you know at your you, know
beach bump pot, smoker, skateboarder personnelity Like, darby you, know
you can. Describe but With drew it's just, like, well

(01:52:31):
he's just a top, guy you, know but beyond, that
there wasn't a. Lot so how do you what are
the pros and cons of the strengths and weaknesses Of
drew's top character Because roman is so.

Speaker 2 (01:52:40):
Defined, Now, YEAH i think When drew has something to
sink his teeth, into and you, know there's a reason
for him to be edgy engaged as far as delivering
the strong promos about someone or regarding a match that
he's gonna have some with, someone he's really. Good he's,
okay hey with the playful, stuff you. Know HE i

(01:53:02):
felt Like monday was one of his weaker nights from
a mic works, standpoint a little too dorky with some
of the the whole you, see you see WHAT i
did there, Thing just, yeah it WAS i felt like
it was an off. Night BUT i don't worry about
it long term BECAUSE i still remember back to those
impact days where he could just walk that line really

(01:53:24):
really well when it came to being the face of
the company without being overbearing and obnoxious and just you,
know raw rock company.

Speaker 3 (01:53:32):
Man you, know there's a difference.

Speaker 2 (01:53:33):
There AND i think if he's if he's produced, well
BECAUSE i don't think that was all MACINT i think
he has good, instincts BUT i think he has Some
he had some smart people working with, him and as
long As vince doesn't get overbearing and start to try
to turn him into the Next John, cena and he's
going to be.

Speaker 1 (01:53:50):
Fine solids, Go, jason anything else urgent you want to
bring up or pertinent before we wrap?

Speaker 3 (01:53:56):
Up oh, boy let's.

Speaker 2 (01:53:58):
See, NO i think We've, gosh we've talked about just
about everybody. Today i'm sure we left out some group
and somebody's gonna be. Offended but you, KNOW.

Speaker 1 (01:54:05):
I mean there's more you can talk. About what's going
on With mysterio and And murphy AND i mean there's
there's pretty prominent. Things we didn't get, it but but
we don't have. To we don't have to hit everything
in the flagship going?

Speaker 3 (01:54:17):
On can they come.

Speaker 2 (01:54:18):
Up with a challenger For oscar SO i don't have
to watch This lana garbage?

Speaker 3 (01:54:22):
Anymore there you?

Speaker 1 (01:54:23):
Go, yeah, WELL i mean that's that's a good. REQUEST
i don't, know maybe there's somebody IN nxt they could bring,
up but, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:54:31):
Yeah rihea can come up and Beat oscar so we
can be done with all of. This, YEAH i, know
people actually feel fresh.

Speaker 1 (01:54:35):
Again yeah, yeah all, right well. Cool so check Out
jason On twitter At Pro Wrestling. Net check out check
out our brand at Pw torch and follow me On
twitter at The Wade Keller you, can you. Should you
ought to Visit Pro wrestling Dot Net jason's website every
day breaking, NEWS tv, coverage. Editorials what was the uh

(01:54:57):
what was the headline yesterday a on your? Site one
of the editorials, was, uh grab my attention.

Speaker 2 (01:55:09):
Only believe it Was Colin maguire writing about just the overabundance.

Speaker 1 (01:55:14):
Of wrestler series and, yeah YouTube.

Speaker 2 (01:55:18):
Shows and just all of, this AND i think it
was more venting than. Anything, yeah because IT i, mean
the response has been while they're making, money it's, like, okay,
yeah we get, that but, yeah they're they really have
gone over for with this some of. IT i, mean
you can't blame the talent for doing, it especially if
it's if it's making them a little extra, money but,

(01:55:41):
yeah it can be a little.

Speaker 3 (01:55:42):
Overwhelming.

Speaker 1 (01:55:43):
Yeah so, ANYWAY i bring that up as an example
of a variety of things on progressing dot net we're
checking out and of course check Out PETE. W torch dot.
COM i got the detailed report From Tony CONTs media
conference earlier today talking about The Omega moxley, match the
willingness OF tnt by the way to run long over
the normal two hour. Span so that's a way of,
saying don't think when there's two minutes left in the
hour the finish is coming. Up it could go. Over

(01:56:05):
so it's a NICE tnt is, playing or they're at
least SAYING t AND t is willing to go. Long
we'll see if it really. HAPPENS i suspect it it,
will but they might just be saying that's so the
finish doesn't seem as. Predictable but full details on that
AT pw torch dot. Com sean radickin participating in the
call and putting up a detailed, report and, yeah check
Out Prossing boom podcast With Jason. Powell and thank you

(01:56:26):
everybody for listening to The flagship this. Week So i'll
be by tomorrow night after a w With Jake barnett
From progressing Dot net to analyze The Moxley omega, match
and Then thursday right here on The Blue Bogo Show
Our Our Way Color prosing podcast instead Of Thursday, flagship
it will be a takeover. Preview we also anticipate having

(01:56:46):
The paula Bec TRIPLE H Hunter Hurst helmsley media call
on that. Podcast also as a kind of double header
preview For sunday's Takeover jason as, always thank. You we
got Our viking talk out of the way, already so
we don't need to do that, here SO i guess
we can just sign.

Speaker 3 (01:57:04):
Off please sounds. Good talk to you get in a few.

Speaker 4 (01:57:06):
Weeks aw three.

Speaker 1 (01:57:25):
If you missed it. Earlier just a reminder we're running
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(01:58:07):
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Speaker 2 (01:58:17):
Wadekeller searching for more great pro wrestling, talk then join
Me Jason powell host them the free Weekly Pro Wrestling Boom.
Podcast each, week you'll hear the latest news and analysis
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(01:58:38):
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Speaker 2 (01:58:46):
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Speaker 1 (01:58:49):
Com thanks for listening to our. Podcast did you know
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(01:59:10):
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