5 YRS AGO SPECIAL: Early Tony Khan Media Q&A plus Keller hosts All Out preview roundtable

Episode Transcript
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Now, PW Torch and Speaker bring you the Wade Keller
Pro Wrestling Podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:57):
On today's wad Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast. Years ago, Flashbacker
jumped back to the September third, twenty twenty episode featuring
an early Tony Kahn media Q and A including PW
Torch's own Sean Radikin participating. This was centered around previewing
all out, but hit a variety of topics that were
relevant at that time again, including during the pandemic era.

(02:17):
Here Before that, though, I hosted a roundtable discussion with
PW Torch contributor Eric Croll and PW Torch contributor Joshua Chambers.
We talked about the entire All Out lineup and made predictions.
Along with evaluating the hype, we talked broadly about whether
it was a strong lineup for a signature pay per
view event. So let's get to it. This again originally
dropped on September third, twenty twenty and it is today's

(02:40):
Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast five years ago Flashback four Thursday,
September fourth, twenty twenty five. All Right, guys, coming up
on Saturday night, ahw's Marque pay perview All Out, their
second edition, although in some ways the third tradition in
terms of this holiday weekend featuring a signature show from

(03:01):
this core group, and we've got a number match one
down the whole show here and preview it. I want
to begin just kind of with both of your thoughts
on if this feels big enough in terms of the
matches that they are presenting and the hype and the build,
if it feels worthy of sort of their WrestleMania, or
if they came up a little short in that regard,

(03:23):
and certainly they might have had a different show if
not for the pandemic, and I will throw first to
Progressing Torch former prosing Torch columnist Eric Kroll.

Speaker 2 (03:33):
Who, if you've been listening to us, has been doing.

Speaker 1 (03:35):
A variety of aw related podcasts with us this year. Eric,
good to have you back. I'll introduce you first and
throw to you first with that question.

Speaker 3 (03:42):
Hello, Hello, thanks for having me. So, I mean the
top of the card you know? To me, pay per
views are sort of sold on main events. Usually they
used to be in WWE, mostly because they paid so
little attention to the undercard. And it doesn't matter anymore
because in WWE, because everyone's on the network.

Speaker 4 (04:03):
But you know, if you sense that it doesn't feel
as big, it isn't there wrestle Mania.

Speaker 3 (04:10):
It's because MJF is headlining against Moxley for the title,
and I don't know that many people think they are
going to go to MJF this early, So that might
be where it doesn't feel like quite the big stakes
card that even say Revolution was Revolution had the.

Speaker 4 (04:31):
Dream matchup of the Bucks.

Speaker 3 (04:33):
If this is at the end of February, for twenty
has been a long year for everybody.

Speaker 4 (04:37):
End of February.

Speaker 3 (04:39):
You had Jericho Moxley on top for the title, and
the tag title match was a dream match.

Speaker 4 (04:45):
Everyone was looking forward to seeing it.

Speaker 3 (04:47):
Probably it's one of the best tag team matches ever
in the history of wrestling American wrestling anyway, And this
time Jerich goes against Orange Cassidy, who they're trying to elevate.
The tag titles are FTR versus Kenny and Page in
a somewhat muddled storyline, and if you are a casual fan,
you're like FTR or those job guys from WWE. So

(05:09):
it maybe doesn't have the top of the card star
power that the some of the previous ones have had.
But I think it's still gonna be a pretty good show.
I'm optimistic, all right in.

Speaker 1 (05:21):
The second person on the round table today is Joshua Chambers.
He contributes to pw torch dot com the aw Dynamite
primers getting you ready for the show with the lineup
and some shoulder content updates, and also his analysis of
what he's looking forward to and what he thinks of
the show. Joshua, Well, welcome to your podcast debut here
on the Wade Keller Processing Podcast.

Speaker 5 (05:43):
Thank you. I'm pumped to be here.

Speaker 6 (05:45):
Uh yeah, I think I mostly agree with Eric that
the it doesn't feel there's nothing on the card that
feels super special to me. I think, obviously you have
a massive star in John Moxley, and I think that
MJF is on his way to being that massive draw,
that excellent, you know, main event opponent, But I don't

(06:06):
know that they've quite gotten him there yet, And honestly,
I think part of that might be with the lack
of live crowds, you know, the feedback that that you're
able to see and used to sort of feel that
out is only online and wrestling internet people are notoriously
the worst, so I'm not sure that they've elevated him

(06:27):
just yet to get people excited. I do think that
the tag match is going to be excellent because I
think FTR are one of, if not the best tag
team in wrestling, and then you also have on the
other side Keny Omega, who may be the best wrestler alive.
And I think that's going to be an excellent, excellent match,
and I hope it's a chance for FDR to finally

(06:49):
break out of that jobbers at WWE Box that they
might be in for the For the casual fans, other
than that, though, I mean, I'm not excited. The battle
rayals I think are are are messy and mostly boring,
and you know, nothing else on the card really is
jumping out. Oh excuse me, I'm sorry. The most of
Mayhem Match I am legitimately excited for. I'm legitimately pumped

(07:10):
for that. I'm a huge George Ksity fan. I've been
a huge fan of his for a long time, and
I think that's going to be a lot of fun.
But I think for the casual fan watching that it
might be maybe a little too weird. But I am excited,
but it doesn't feel it doesn't feel special the way
I think it should feel special.

Speaker 1 (07:29):
Yeah, I think some of that's pandemic related, calendar related,
you know, not having access to PAK for instance, maybe
delaying storyline developments based on those Georgia tapings and kind
of waiting it out to see do we really want
to run some big angles and big matches without live
fans and attendance. And so I give them a you know,
largely a pass when it comes to the normal judgment

(07:51):
we would give to a marquee, you know, annual super show.
But this feels like a B show. Lineup for AUW
to me even and we'll get to the match by
the specific match by match more in depth analysis, but
even the women's title match, I think they came up
with something late in the game, pulled a rabbit out
of the hat with thot Arosa, but it's not the

(08:11):
culmination of something that feels like, oh, yeah, this is
something we've been looking forward to for a long time.
And then not having you know, as you said, Eric,
the muddled storyline with FTR and Omegan Page kind of
mid stream where everyone's just kind of not sure if
this is being booked well or not or where it's headed,
and it's not the culmination of anything. And then as

(08:33):
you said, MGF being a relatively weak co headline champion
so all of that or I mean a challenger to
the champion, so all that at play, and then yeah,
Jericho their top star and past pay per views in
a comedy match, not a bad comedy match, but when
you say it's a top three match and the other
two aren't particularly strong, all Out doesn't look on paper

(08:53):
like I think probably Tony, Kana and everybody would have
imagined this show would had things gone a little differently.
All right, So let's pause for a moment here, set
the table formally introduce ourselves. This is the Wade Keller
prog Wrestling Podcast, a special Thursday pay per view preview
edition of the program. We're focused, of course, on aw's
All Out pay per view coming up this Saturday night.
Former Pro Wrestling Torch columnist Eric Crow and current p

(09:18):
W Torch contributor Joshuba Chambers joins me for this roundtable discussion.
We're going to march through this entire show, the entire
lineup in a somewhat random order. We'll close with our
analysis of Moxley and mjf though, and then after that
we're going to bring you the Tony Kahn media conference
call that PW Torch columnist and co host of the

(09:39):
flagship with me this week, Sean Radikin was part of
asking a question of Tony Kahan during the media q
and a that runs just over an hour. So we
got a lot of content coming your way to get
you ready for Saturday night's pay per view. First, our
analysis of the show, our predictions and comments, and then
you can hear what Tony Cohn had to say to
media questions regarding All Out in aew at large, So

(10:01):
we'll get right back to that. I do want to
mention that there will be a live post show hosted
by Greg Parks, not on the usual page at the
usual Waight Keller post show site, but on the pw
torch Daily Cast page. There will be a link to
that live post show hosted by Greg Parks on the
PW torch Daily Cast feed. There'll be a link to
that on pw torch dot com in my aw all

(10:24):
out report on Saturday night. So if you can join
Greg Parks live Saturday night, you can call into the
show and contributor just listen in. Just look for that link.
I'll also post it at pw torch on Twitter. Could
be a late night show starting at seven, It could
go four hours, so it could be a late start,
but Greg Parks will be there either way, with that
instant feedback within five minutes give or take of the

(10:46):
pay per view actually concluding, and I assume almost everybody
knows it's listening to this, but we do have our
red feed the Waight Keller Progressing post show that I
just mentioned. If you don't subscribe to that whatever podcast
app you're using to hear this show, just search wad
Keller and look or the red logo. It looks just
like the blue logo for this show, but it's read
and it says post show instead of podcast on the logo.
And that will include a long two plus hour aw

(11:10):
Dynamite post show that I recorded last night with Zach Haydorn,
pw Torch columnist, and you can get a whole other
dose of AW analysis. And then that also includes our
raw post shows and SmackDown post shows. You're missing out
on a lot if you are not subscribing and downloading
that feed every week, So just search Wade Keller on
your podcast app and look for the red logo. In
addition to this the blue logo show that you're listening
to now, you can also find links to our free

(11:32):
podcasts on our website pewtorch dot com, on the right
sidebar on your desktop view, or in the podcast category
on our mobile site. All right, so let's get to it.
We'll get back to our conversation now. Thanks for downloading
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(11:54):
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(12:15):
all the bonus content and the ad free listening experience.
PW toors dot com slash go VIP. Let's move into
some of this match by match specifics here. I want

(12:38):
to begin with Matt Hardy and Sammy Govara.

Speaker 2 (12:43):
Joshua.

Speaker 1 (12:44):
They added a stipulation that if Hardy loses, he must
leave AW. It's being called a broken rules match. I
thought the video last night on AW Dynamite was tremendous.
I want to see AW put more elbow grease into
their into their show, you know, more pizaz, more post
production work to overwhelm the show with stuff. But a short,
to the point while produced video with music I think

(13:05):
shakes up the pace of the show and gives it
a kind of a sheene and a gloss, and I
thought just that was really good and it made me
more excited for the match. That said, adding that the
stipulation of Hearty must leave aw as sort of an
afterthought or something thrown in late without a real rationale
that I picked up on feels random. And I don't
think a stipulation that's somebody of Hardy's stature really anyone,

(13:29):
but especially Hardy stature. If he loses a match, he
has to leave the company. I don't think I should
be thrown out there as some sort of like, well,
we want to add a little something extra to give
it a little extra juice. So j Joshua, what's your
take on this match? The video I mentioned, and the stipulation.

Speaker 5 (13:45):
I totally agree with you about the video package.

Speaker 6 (13:47):
I think those have been steadily improving, and I think
it is exactly the sort of thing that they should
be focusing on while while we're in the pandemic and
the entering stuff isn't as exciting as for the stipulation,
and I hate it. I think that I hate I
always hate this sort of stuff because it either a
signals to us that there's no way Matt Hardy's gonna

(14:09):
lose because of course he's not gonna leave AEW, or
he does lose and he leaves AW. And we know
that that's not forever, right, Like, when was the last
time it's been forever that someone has done a loser
leave town situation, Like it's never it's never happened. And
I think the idea that someone like Matt Hardy would
put that on the line, and it's someone like Samy Cuovara,
and I think they have you know, they've built their

(14:30):
feud fine, and it's a good enough feud, but I mean,
how many wins in AEW does Samy Quoavara have, right?

Speaker 5 (14:37):
Like why would he?

Speaker 6 (14:39):
I just I hate the stipulation And I think sort
of along the lines of you, it feels random, it
feels it feels kind of kind of thrown together at
the last second.

Speaker 2 (14:48):
Eric over to you, same topic.

Speaker 3 (14:50):
So they booked themselves into a quarner here, because the
proper finish for this at this point in Matt Hardy's career,
the proper finish is absolutely to put sam Me over.

Speaker 4 (15:00):
But if that happens, as you point.

Speaker 3 (15:02):
Out, Hardy is gone and you end up with WWE
style going back on your steps and the steps mean
nothing type thing, and ae W has builled themselves as
the company who's not going to do that. I mean,
Cody lost his November pay per view challenge for the
title against.

Speaker 4 (15:21):
Jericho and MJF threw in the Townel. Seems like it
was six years ago, but it was only November.

Speaker 3 (15:27):
And and Cody has not gotten a title shot since.
And you know, if this was WWE, they probably would
have already gone back on the step Man Hardy going
over Sammy. Uh, that seems to be the finish.

Speaker 4 (15:43):
As I think you guys both indicated that as well.

Speaker 3 (15:46):
But man, that's a that's a that's stupid, that's shortsighted.
The build has been physically brutal.

Speaker 4 (15:52):
I mean, they.

Speaker 1 (15:53):
Maybe too much for a match of this caliber on
the car too, Like, I mean that's a philosophical thing,
but do you want to have that much blood and
table breaking and all that cool stuff in the video?
Do you spend that kind of Uh, you can't do
that for every match? Do you want to actually do
that for a match that involves Matt Hardy and a
guy who at this point is Chris Jericho's sidekick entertaining,
thoroughly entertaining, talented sidekick, but you know he's a sidekick character.

(16:16):
Shouldn't you save that for I think like the Maxley
mgf angle at the end of last night show has
more oomph if we didn't watch Matt Hardy and Sammy
Guvara at that have that level of brawling and bleeding
and you know, philosophically pacing that those kinds of angles
and applying them to money matches, to me, is is
smarter And it doesn't seem like aw necessarily thinks that
stuff through or agrees with what I just said.

Speaker 6 (16:38):
And if if Matt Hardy does go over Sammy, like,
how what do they have to do for you guys?

Speaker 5 (16:44):
Like what do they have to do to build.

Speaker 6 (16:46):
Sammy into a legitimate contender, legitimate threat to anyone? Because
they it feels like they've spent the last you know,
year and a half just jobbing him to just feeding
him too faces and just still being smug, still being
you know, the most punishable guy in wrestling. For sure,
he's great, great job with that, but like I don't know,
like how long it's gonna take for them if he
doesn't beat Matt Hardy to keep. How long can he

(17:07):
keep doing that? And what are they going to have
they do to rehabilitate sort of that that image that
I have in my head of him.

Speaker 2 (17:12):
Yeah, what do you think of that? Eric? Is damage
being done that takes years to undo?

Speaker 7 (17:16):
There?

Speaker 3 (17:18):
You could in the match itself, you could have Sammy
take ninety percent of the match and Matt win on
a fluke like Sammy jumps out of the table, Matt
gets out of the way and like cradles him or whatever.

Speaker 2 (17:29):
Like you know, the flute that's always satisfying flash pit.

Speaker 3 (17:32):
Yeah, maybe that's the WWE way of doing things is
we're gonna put you over, but we're not really gonna
put you over. You could what what what does Tony
Kahan do in his booking when he wants to rehabilitate someone,
He takes them off TV and puts them on Dark
for a few months or a few weeks and has
them win squash matches so they can pad their one
lost record. I don't know that anybody buys that, but

(17:56):
because most people don't, probably don't watch Dark, and I mean,
you would have to start giving him wins. If Matt
Hardy wins, what's the ceiling. You've got You've got Moxley
as a face champion. I guess if somehow they were
to switch the belts, he would be in line for.

Speaker 4 (18:12):
A title shot with MJF.

Speaker 3 (18:15):
But what he can challenge for the TV title or
the FTW title off of this win, I don't know.

Speaker 4 (18:24):
Kind of kind of lame.

Speaker 3 (18:25):
I think though the these AW pay per views have
tended to follow a formula.

Speaker 4 (18:30):
This is the fifth normal one.

Speaker 3 (18:32):
They had those two freeb's a year ago over the
summer before they got their weekly TV. This is the
garbage match in the AW pay per view formula. In
February it was Darby Allen and Sammy, which I think
Darby Allen won maybe, And this is filling that role

(18:52):
on you know, kind of early card, kind of high
spot phil garbage match.

Speaker 1 (18:58):
We'll see, Yeah, I mean, I'm looking forward to it,
but I you know, I like just placement of this
match on the card, and and is it worth burning
out so to speak, the crowd, so to speak, the
the audience on pay per view, burning them out with
just an all out stipulation match. I know, Sean Radikin

(19:19):
asked Tony Kahan earlier, and we're going to be playing
the media conference call after this discussion we're having so
everyone can hear Tony's answer to it. But Sean Radikin,
who joined me on the flag Ship this week on
this show, asked Tony about, you know, how many gimmick
matches are on this show, and you know, if you
have too many gimmick matches, it takes some of the
some of the novelty away once you get to the

(19:43):
matches where you want the most passion and emotion to be.

Speaker 2 (19:48):
And you know, Sean was.

Speaker 1 (19:49):
Wondering if that just because of the lack of crowd,
so you can hear Tony address that. But is there
with a Battle Royal the mosta mayhem match the loser
must leave the who you know, just battleles in general
are kind of is there too much of that? Or
do you look and say no, it's kind of balanced
out because you know, Maxi M. Jeff is pretty straightforward.

(20:10):
The tag match could just looks like it's gonna be
straightforward tag match, and even Jurassica Express Young Bucks is
straight forward. It is this a well balanced show as
far as that goes, And thus Hardy Sammy actually is
is kind of good to break up under card monotony.

Speaker 2 (20:25):
Eric ill Threty first on it.

Speaker 3 (20:28):
I mean, I think Tony Kahan has been booking for
what a little not not even a year and a half.
Yet I'm sure he has fantasy booking from for his
entire life.

Speaker 2 (20:38):
Yes, I can guarantee that, Yes, from.

Speaker 4 (20:41):
Back in the day. But he hasn't been booking that long.

Speaker 1 (20:43):
He was writing letters to the Pros and Torch newsletter, Eric,
when you were a columnist, well not quite, it was
a little he was.

Speaker 2 (20:49):
He came.

Speaker 1 (20:49):
He was a kid after your time as a columnist,
but he was. He actually had published letters in the
Pros and Torch newsletter with his ideas on wrestling. I mean,
he has been a passionate fan for a long time.

Speaker 3 (21:01):
And so so he also has There's a lot of
cooks in that kitchen, right, I mean, and a lot
of guys who are smart and who have definite thoughts
on how wrestling should be. And I mean, you know
he's there's somebody booking the women's division.

Speaker 4 (21:17):
I think it's Kenny and Brandy.

Speaker 3 (21:20):
I don't know, I don't know who specifically, but you know,
the supposedly the Bucks are booking the tag division and
Cody and Tony are booking the men's division, so there's
a lot of cooks in that kitchen.

Speaker 4 (21:34):
They've all got their points of view.

Speaker 3 (21:36):
I think, I guess if I were spinning this, I'm
curious to actually hear what Tony Kan had to say
about it.

Speaker 4 (21:43):
I would say it's kind of a Smorgas board of
variety show.

Speaker 3 (21:46):
If you don't like the straight up wrestling, you might
like the blood and guts part of it.

Speaker 4 (21:51):
If you don't.

Speaker 3 (21:53):
If you don't like the blood and guts part of it,
maybe you like the Battle Royal or the buy in match,
which is apparently is a cinematic pre taped, pre filmed
match with Britt Baker and Big Swall. Some women's title
match as well, that might be okay in the ring,
It's kind of a smorgas board something for everyone approach.

Speaker 6 (22:13):
Joshua, your thoughts, Yeah, I definitely agree with that. That
last part is it does feel very three ring circus
this time around, and I'm thinking back, I'm like, has
it always been this for for aw And I think
this this feels a little bit more that than usual.

Speaker 5 (22:29):
And I don't know.

Speaker 6 (22:30):
If it's because of the I don't I don't even
know how limited. I guess their their roster is right
now during the pandemic, but it does it does feel
like a little bit of something for everyone, but nothing
over there's no overall cohesion.

Speaker 1 (22:47):
That's kind of the criticism of t and A Joshua. So,
you know, we'll get a little bit everything. We got
the opening X Division match with a bunch of high
spots for people like that, and then we'll give you
a good old fashioned tag team match out of the
you know, glory years of the eighties and the territory,
and we're gonna give you a no rules ECW hardcore
style match, and then we'll do a three way. It
was like the idea of just giving a little bit

(23:08):
of something to everybody was actually a point of criticism
for TNA because it gave off a sense of it
didn't know who they were, They just were trying to
be a little something for everybody. And when you're a
little something for everybody, you end up being kind of
a blow average buffet instead of a really good meal
super serving a particular audience. I'm not sure that's right formula.
I'm not saying AW is that bad by any means,

(23:29):
but it is when you go that direction, you start
saying booking wise, we want to be a little something
for everyone. That tells me you don't really believe strongly
in anything, and you're just gonna kind of throw dart,
you know, a handful of darts all at once at
the dart board instead of having a certain vision and
a precision to your booking. And that worries me a
little bit. Not saying it can't work, but it worries me.
And I think it's harder to manage well.

Speaker 6 (23:51):
And I think it also is a little bit of
not being super comfortable with the strength of their storytelling either, because,
like I'm looking through this, I'm like, how many of
these stories have been going on for very long at all? Right,
Like Chris Yerk and Orange Cassidy? Is that the longest
running feud on this card?

Speaker 5 (24:11):
Is? Is there anything that it goes past? You know,
you know, five weeks, six weeks?

Speaker 1 (24:15):
Yeah, good point. I mean I look there is bake. Yeah, No,
you're right, I don't think.

Speaker 3 (24:20):
Well, the tag title saga has been playing out for
months and months, right, I'm surprised it's not a three
way with the Bucks and.

Speaker 1 (24:27):
Sure, sure, but with the Bucks not in it. I mean,
FTR feel relatively new. I mean, I bet, I'm not sure,
But does Cassidy Jericho pre date actually ftr's arrival. I
actually don't even have, and I had a clear calendar
on that.

Speaker 3 (24:41):
I mean, I think it's natural that you you've got
had they have their four pay per views a year,
and then they had that two week Fight for the
Fallen that they put on TV or fighter Fest. There
were those three weeks where they had the that sort
of supercards, and then you it's some of those few

(25:03):
you's naturally run their course and then you start new
ones to build.

Speaker 4 (25:06):
For the next pay per view.

Speaker 3 (25:07):
I think that's sort of to me, that's sort of
what wrestling has always been kind of.

Speaker 4 (25:11):
You go from big show to big show, and AW
doesn't do monthly pay per views, so you don't.

Speaker 3 (25:16):
Always get the sort of rematches right away that you
would might get other promotions who do monthly pay per views.

Speaker 2 (25:22):
Yeah, yeah, good point. I'll talk to go back to you.
I don't know if you've finished your thoughts when I think.

Speaker 5 (25:26):
I, oh no, yeah, that was that was about it
for me? Yeap on that?

Speaker 1 (25:29):
All right, Well, let's go to our next match. Oh
so I guess official predictions is it. It seems like
a safe vet Hardy wins. But I could also see,
and I'll throw this out there, Sammycavara winning and this
causes Matt Hardy to reinvent himself and come back as
something other than Matt Hardy and some other worldly character.

Speaker 2 (25:50):
Because they didn't put.

Speaker 1 (25:51):
A ton of hype into the stipulation, I don't feel
like it would be considered like this big ripoff to
do that, compared to if it was like a main
event match and it was really selling pay per buys
based on I can't believe someone's gonna lose and have
to leave. So I'll just throw that out there as
a way to maybe mitigate a little bit the obviousness that,
of course Matt's gonna win.

Speaker 2 (26:10):
Joshua your prediction.

Speaker 6 (26:12):
Uh, you know, I think I'm gonna go aheadn't consider
it until Eric brought it up. But they may go
with with a Hardy Fluke victory, and that, yeah, that
bums me out.

Speaker 2 (26:23):
Eric, your your official call.

Speaker 4 (26:26):
I mean, just assuming they don't put their finger on
the scale.

Speaker 3 (26:31):
And I think ae w because they had a lot
of people in their promotion, including Tony Khan who I
like them.

Speaker 4 (26:39):
I like AW, so I'm not going to call himself righteous,
but the sort.

Speaker 3 (26:43):
Of WWE fans go and live on the internet to
rip on AW people like New Japan is better than
everything would rip on AW. If Hardy loses and then
comes back as Matt Hardy gimmick number three hundred and
eighty two right then his backside. So I'm just gonna
good take to go with the obvious heart. He's not leaving,

(27:05):
He's under contract, so he will somehow win.

Speaker 2 (27:09):
Yeah, I think so too.

Speaker 1 (27:11):
Hardy wins, but I'm I'm you know, had that asterisk there,
he could lose and still not leave.

Speaker 8 (27:19):
Need an extra dose of positivity in your wrestling podcasts,
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Paradise at Peter botorch VIP as we mask on the
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(27:39):
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(28:01):
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Speaker 2 (28:20):
See you in the Paradise recal.

Speaker 1 (28:30):
Question for he Rick on Sammy cavaarr in three years,
where do you think he should and will be on
the card?

Speaker 4 (28:37):
I think Josh made some good points about how they're.

Speaker 3 (28:42):
If he's still in the same spot where he's just
being fed to get babyfaces over and their way to
main events and title matches, that's bad for him. I
don't know how old he is, but I don't mean
I don't think he's pushing thirty.

Speaker 1 (28:57):
No, no, I think it's twenty six. Is he twenty
six or is Darby twenty six? Let me let me
look it up. He might only be twenty three.

Speaker 4 (29:02):
Yeah, I mean it's oh.

Speaker 1 (29:05):
He's twenty He just turned twenty seven, so yeah, I
was I would have been right a month a month
and a half now, so yeah, just your twice so
so I mean it's kind of like you don't want
to wait too long.

Speaker 4 (29:14):
Yeah, I mean, you can only to the earlier point.

Speaker 3 (29:17):
You can only do so many job, high profile jobs,
before you get tainted with the can't win the big
one brush.

Speaker 4 (29:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (29:27):
I think Sammy has a ton of upside, assuming he
doesn't put his foot in his mouth again by seeing
something stupid and getting suspended for a month. And you
you know, you've seen a few years him in the top,
in the top mix, you know, seems to have a
high upside with his work rate, his ability to talk,
and natural ability for me to hate his guts because

(29:49):
he's such a smarmy little jerk.

Speaker 2 (29:53):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (29:53):
Officially moving on to the next match, Let's talk about
Hre Kushida defending against don A Rosa. Not a lot
of hype going into this other than the last couple
of weeks, but I think it was a good a
good last second, almost like a trade heading into the
playoffs or something, you know, to strengthen your team. This
has a chance to be the sleeper best match of

(30:14):
the night. I think we'll see. You know, it's hard
to know, obviously, hard to know for sure without a
lot of data between these two, but I'm happy this
is on the show.

Speaker 2 (30:24):
Again.

Speaker 1 (30:24):
Doesn't feel wrestleminga caliber because there's not a big backstory,
but having an EDIBA champion versus a w champion Eric
kind of feels like something Progressing Illustrated would have been
writing about back in the mid eighties when we were
reading wrestling magazines as fans and fantasizing about.

Speaker 2 (30:38):
So, Eric Thrity, first year, your thoughts.

Speaker 1 (30:39):
On on this match, what you think of the quality
and the build and all.

Speaker 3 (30:44):
That the the AEW women's division has, you know, is
an easy target.

Speaker 4 (30:52):
It's fishing a barrel to make fun of it at
this point due to.

Speaker 3 (30:56):
You know, the lack of quality experienced workers. Some of
the it's due to the pandemic, and nobody wants to
come to the United States given how many COVID cases
there have been relative to Japan.

Speaker 4 (31:09):
So you know, the match, I yeah, it's fine.

Speaker 3 (31:15):
At least they got thought that they got thunder Rose
a match last night or Wednesday night on Dynamite. Jim
Ross of course stepped in it by saying, boy is
the best women's match we've ever had, right, like a
couple of times he stepped at it, which was hilarious.
He was just, you know, providing fodder to all the
critics of the aid of women's division.

Speaker 4 (31:33):
Where is she to been?

Speaker 3 (31:36):
It feels like I haven't seen her on TV in
any kind of meaningful match for forever. I'm sure it's
like it's been a few weeks. Maybe it's been a month.

Speaker 4 (31:44):
She appeared on like that contract signing, but they didn't
shoot an angle there. At least the match will be
pretty good. Well, how do they get around the champion
versus champion thing?

Speaker 3 (31:56):
I would assume that Chidah goes over because it's you know,
it's her promotion. She's the women's champ. I don't know
if the end, I don't think it's a title unification match.

Speaker 1 (32:08):
Right, No, they haven't. It's just for the aw title.
So thunder Rolls could become a thunder two Belts, I guess.

Speaker 7 (32:15):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (32:16):
Yeah, if if William Corgan Billy Corgan, as I've known
him as Chicagoan for most of my life. But you knows,
William Corgan, I think he if he goes, if he
you know, I mean, I assume they worked out a
finish when they negotiated this match, because what you would
do back in the old days is do a double
count out or a cheap DQ ending and that is

(32:37):
not or.

Speaker 2 (32:38):
A sixteen minute draw, which I doubt we'll get here.

Speaker 1 (32:40):
But who knows, Yeah, or maybe maybe it has Honestly,
maybe it's a thirty minute time limit and go to
a draw.

Speaker 3 (32:46):
Oh no, that would be so bad, you know, Yeah,
So you know, I mean, I guess another way around
it is Sheida appears in the NWA whenever they get
their television back up.

Speaker 4 (32:59):
I feel like they have a weekly.

Speaker 3 (33:01):
Pay per views coming eye pay per views or something
in the coming weeks, and Chidah goes there and returns
the favor and does the job for thunder Rosa.

Speaker 4 (33:08):
But you know it'll be there.

Speaker 3 (33:11):
I'm not excited or overly excited about it, Joshua, your thoughts.

Speaker 6 (33:18):
I'm more excited I think about the about you know,
n w A people coming in than I am about
this match specifically. I think I think Sheida is is
I think easily the best women's wrestler on the roster
as far as entering ability goes. But that's not unfortunately
saying a ton.

Speaker 1 (33:41):
I doubt a lot of people shouted at you. How
could you say that? What about blank?

Speaker 2 (33:44):
You know it's not a lot of right.

Speaker 6 (33:45):
Yeah, I can feel the Twitter mentions already, But I
think I think, I don't know. It should be a
fine match. I think thunder Rosa did a lot of
fun stuff. I only knew her through n w A
Power or nothing else besides that, and I loved everything
they did. So yeah, I'm I mean the match should
be fine. But if they want to bring in more

(34:06):
n w A people, I would be all for it.
I used to love the inner promotion stuff, you know,
when I was younger. You know, it's like the Avengers
getting together. But yeah, it's on the card.

Speaker 1 (34:18):
I wish they had a few more weeks to tell
an actual story, maybe tell you know, have a little
fun with you know, the negotiations with Corgan or you
know it's it's it's you know, more than just she'da
saying you know, I beat everybody. It's an open challenge,
like go further than that have you know, uh, I
don't know, some you know, pomp and circumstance to the
announcement and say we got a big you know, if

(34:39):
this is a very big pay per view for us,
we have a very big announcement, you know, rather than
contender within. And this will ruffle some feathers among those
who are in this company, but we feel we've got
something really special for all out.

Speaker 2 (34:51):
It may become a tradition.

Speaker 1 (34:52):
We brought brought in another champion from another organization and
just you know, play it up more than they did.
The video was good, but it it just felt you know,
almost literally phoned in, you know, in terms of how
they did it. So but on the right side, it's
I think it's a sleeper to be the best match
of the night, I mean, and I don't see any
reason why they should restrain them in terms of time

(35:14):
or or the way the match is designed to come across.
Let them have the best match they can because the
women's division is a weak point in a w's reputation.
So if they can get a buzz going that they
just delivered a potential women's match of the year on
American soil, you.

Speaker 2 (35:30):
Know, that's that's a good a good thing, all right.

Speaker 1 (35:35):
So yeah, all right, we'll move on to the next match.
I just say official picks, but I think we kind
of know that's hard to hard to choose. I mean, Joshua,
do you have I guess I will? I mean, what's
your what's your official pick for how this ends up?

Speaker 7 (35:48):
Oh?

Speaker 5 (35:48):
I just I can't imagine Sheida losing here.

Speaker 1 (35:50):
Yeah, you can support us on Patreon and get these
shows with ads and plugs removed, the Weight Killer Pressing podcast,
Weight Keller post shows, and the PW Torch daily cast
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(36:11):
patreon dot com slash PW Torch vip. That's patreon dot
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to other tiers and receive even more benefits through Patreon. Okay,
So next, Jurassic Express, Jungaboy and Lucasaurus against the Young

(36:33):
Bucks met Nick Jackson. They won their FOURIGN four take
match last night, and therefore sort of a random thing
a ws are out there among a lot of random stiffs,
but the winning team has to face each other at
all out. I guess there's some ranking ramifications here. If
you win one match, then you win another against your partners,
then you move up in the ranking. So there's some

(36:55):
sort of sports like feel. As unconventional as it is
the Young Books, turning down a celebration which your escic
express afterwards is kind of blowing them off and leaving
the ring coming across a little heelish. It's been kind
of hard to read the books lately and where they're
going with them. Joshuare your thoughts on on this match
and the build up to it.

Speaker 6 (37:14):
I think the build up to it feels, you know,
a little hasty. You know, there's no real big build
to it. I think we're going to get a lot
of Jim Ross saying, you know, the Young Bucks are
considered to be the best in the world, and we'll
get some fun Luciasaurus stuff with Jungle Boy, which I love,
But I mean, I don't know, there's not much here
for me to get excited for.

Speaker 1 (37:37):
I think, how do you feel about just how the
Young Books are coming across lately? In reaction to Hangman
Page and their demeanor even at the end of last
night's match setting up this match.

Speaker 6 (37:48):
It doesn't quite follow logically for me. I think it
feels like they're overreacting a little bit to a thing
that has been slow, right, I mean it's uh, I
don't know. They're real upset and it just feels like
it came out of out of nowhere.

Speaker 2 (38:09):
Eric over to you, Well.

Speaker 3 (38:11):
The Bucks got screwed by Hangman Paige. I think they
have every reason to be to be mad after this match.
Who this is the well we had to get the
Bucks on the pay per view match? Yeah, and it
maybe it opens the show is kind of a high
spot fest, get the crowd all energetic.

Speaker 2 (38:34):
And I think it has a chance to be really good.

Speaker 1 (38:35):
I mean Jungle Boys great, Lucasaurus is ye can play
with the Bucks well and has the size advantage, but
can do the moves I mean, I can. I mean,
I I think if the Bucks aren't gonna be in
a take title match, Eric, doesn't this seem like a
good good opponents for them and they go over strong?

Speaker 9 (38:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (38:50):
I mean where I assume all of this is headed
is the FTR as I think I said it on
a previous preview podcasts, and nothing that has happen and
since has has proven this wrong.

Speaker 4 (39:02):
I think it's.

Speaker 3 (39:04):
FTR wins the Belts, and then we finally at the
November paper you get the Bucks FTR match that if
you are on Twitter or the internet wrestling community, you
know about and have been salivating for this dream match
for five years or whatever it is. And if you
are just a regular fan, you still are wondering why
are these the FTR were job guys in WWE, Why

(39:26):
are they why are they being pushed so hard? So yeah,
the Bucks go over. My worry is that it's not
a pre tape match in Lucasaurus since his injury, he's
sometimes he can there's some daylight in his work.

Speaker 4 (39:41):
It's not always as snug as you might want it
to be.

Speaker 3 (39:45):
I think Jungle Boy is fantastic and I'm I'm looking
forward to This match is kind of a high energy,
get me into the card type deal.

Speaker 4 (39:55):
So hopefully they'll put it on early, maybe first.

Speaker 2 (39:57):
Yeah, yeah, I see that's a big candidate to go
on on on first.

Speaker 1 (40:01):
Joshua, your your thoughts on what the finish, if there's
any chance of a different finish.

Speaker 6 (40:09):
Yeah, I think definitely. I'd completely agree. I think the
Bucks go over, and then I think we're building towards
Bucks versus FTR, and I think, uh yeah, I think
that'll be a really great match, and hopefully you know,
that'll spin off, you know, Omega versus Page. I'd love
to see that. Uh yeah, I think I think definitely, Yeah,
Bucks going over to face FTR at the next the

(40:31):
next pay per view.

Speaker 1 (40:32):
Yeah, it's like, get on with it, guys. I mean,
don't don't don't delay gratification forever to the point that
it gets a little ridiculous. Let's just get to it
and and and move on. Okay, let's let's talk about
the other the other big tag team match here that
that and speaking of FTR and transition into that, Kenny
Omega and Adam Page hanging man Adam Page defending the

(40:53):
a w TA titles against FTR, Cash Wheeler Dax Harwood
totally Blanchard of course in their corner.

Speaker 5 (40:58):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (41:00):
Joshua, your your thoughts on on the the storyline in
your reaction to just the Omega Page promo with FTR
and Tolly last night too. To build this up, I've
had a little trouble making sense of it or even
feeling confident and predicting what they're trying to do and
if they're doing it successfully and where it's headed. But

(41:20):
I'm open to it all falling into place, perhaps as
soon as Saturday night, with some resolution. I'm openly rooting
for some resolution here, with so much ambiguity amongst the
all these characters and their alliances. So kind of your
thoughts on the match and the build?

Speaker 5 (41:36):
Uh So the build weird? Was it?

Speaker 6 (41:39):
Omega with the line about smelling Tolly Blanchard's depends from
where something?

Speaker 2 (41:44):
I think they brought it to w writer who writes
miss and Morrison.

Speaker 5 (41:48):
Oh boy, Yeah it was. It was weird, and it's waiting.

Speaker 1 (41:51):
For a point to the screen and do a photoshop.
You know, here's a photoshop humor left over from Randy
Orton segment.

Speaker 6 (41:57):
Yeah, the build is weird. Honestly, I'm I think this
match is gonna be tremendous.

Speaker 5 (42:04):
I think that FTR, like I said.

Speaker 6 (42:07):
Before, is one of, if not the best tag teams
in the business, and I think Omegan Page are both
very talented, and I think it has all the ingredients
to be a really, really great match. And I'm excited
about that. I am excited. I really hope FTR goes over,
to be honest, because I the Omega page friction and

(42:31):
the page friction with the elite.

Speaker 5 (42:33):
I'm tired of it.

Speaker 6 (42:36):
I've been saying, let's let's let's get over, let's get
it over with, let's let's play this through for a
while now, and so hopefully you know that's the the
start of that storyline resolving itself.

Speaker 2 (42:48):
Eric over to you.

Speaker 3 (42:50):
Out of all the matches on the card, I have
the most thoughts about this one I got.

Speaker 4 (42:55):
Last night.

Speaker 3 (42:57):
The thing felt choppy, like people missed Q or they're
waiting for people to act, like like if you're It
was like if you were watching a high school play
and they're all kind of tentative and having you know,
you're line asshole up.

Speaker 7 (43:10):
Sorry.

Speaker 3 (43:11):
And when it is taped, they have the shows are
better and they can smooth everything out. And that's sort
of become my working theory on how AW works. They're
a lot better on tape than they are a live.
So to the match itself is that the FTR, Kenny Page,
the Bucks sort of triangle that they think this is

(43:32):
all way, way more over than it actually is.

Speaker 4 (43:35):
I'm sure they think they're doing a great job on this,
right and this is just.

Speaker 3 (43:39):
Brilliant six levels of chest that you pleabs can't understand it.

Speaker 4 (43:44):
But it's been confusing.

Speaker 3 (43:45):
I mean, we're we all follow the product product week
to week and we're a little confused. We're not finding
any But who are the faces in this situation? Who knows?

Speaker 1 (43:56):
You know?

Speaker 3 (43:59):
Paid? Last night we had like was painted, he have
like red eye makeup on. It was like zombie Hangman
page as opposed, which is you know, he's been broken
up emotionally. He hasn't slept in a week because of
the what he did to the Bucks, his betrayal.

Speaker 4 (44:16):
He's been thinking about it.

Speaker 3 (44:17):
And then of course you have zombie Kenny Omega, which
Wade you've been harping on for for months, maybe even
a year, that Kenny's kind of phoning it in in
a e W so far, so you have the zombies
versus FTR zombies for different reasons, you know, on.

Speaker 7 (44:36):
Being the elite.

Speaker 3 (44:37):
They keep doing the hinting that Kenny is going back
to the cleaner gimmick. I think this week's BTE show
ended with Kenny looking into he was in a car.

Speaker 4 (44:49):
And he was looking into the rear roew mirror and he.

Speaker 3 (44:50):
Put on his sunglasses, the old terminator Kenny Omega, Rise
of the Terminator sunglasses.

Speaker 4 (44:57):
And so that's where he seems to be head.

Speaker 1 (45:00):
We've explained what a cleaner gimmick would entail for Kenny
Omega for the uninitiated, different than what they've said.

Speaker 3 (45:07):
So, I mean, this is what he was in New Japan,
and it was before I started following New Japan religiously,
but I got the sense he was in Bulloo Club
and he was a heel, you know, the literal terminator.
It was kind of a the look was the leather
jacket and sunglasses like Arnold Schwarzenegger back in the movie
in the early eighties, and he was the yeah, the cleaner.

Speaker 4 (45:32):
He was, took care of business, clean things up.

Speaker 3 (45:34):
I'm sure I'm going to get roasted for those who
have longer knowledge of Kenny Omega the Nighthood.

Speaker 4 (45:39):
But you know, I mean, I think.

Speaker 1 (45:42):
Well that the place to my point too of aw
has to stop assuming prior knowledge of everything.

Speaker 7 (45:49):
You know.

Speaker 1 (45:50):
You know, he said, they probably think they're doing a
great job. Six levels of chest. It's like their numbers
were great last night, they did over nine hundred thousand
viewers live and same night viewers. They're doing well, but
there's a second million fans they should be chasing, and
I don't know if those second million fans are going
to be feel welcome with a product that feels like
you need a secret password to get in the club.
And then you got to catch up on Shoulder content

(46:10):
worth you know, five years of New Japan and being
the Elite Shoulder content. I mean, you want to tip
a hat to your longtime fans, but I think you
also want to start from scratch in terms of and
Cody's pushed this you know, No, you shouldn't have to
watch anything but Dynamite to know everything that you need
to know to be into our storylines and matches.

Speaker 4 (46:28):
Well, they're failing on that score for sure.

Speaker 3 (46:30):
I mean I only know some of the things I
know because I watched Dark and I watch Being the
Elite every week. Yeah, you know, my last thought would
be the what might tie this together? And I think
it's too late to save the whole thing, But is
a video package that just sort of explained all this stuff?

Speaker 7 (46:50):
Right?

Speaker 3 (46:50):
Yeah, they're really good at these video packages, and or
it's possible they're only good at the video packages that
Cody's involved with.

Speaker 4 (46:57):
I quite work that out yet.

Speaker 3 (47:02):
But you know, otherwise this is just a feud because
Kenny Omega likes to drink milk instead of beer. And
you know, I think it'll go be clarity going forward because.

Speaker 4 (47:14):
On Saturday, what's going to happen is.

Speaker 3 (47:18):
The FTR will win the belts, Kenny and Page will
break up as a team. I assume this will continue
Omega's cleaner or he'll turn if even if it's not
the cleaner gimmick, whatever it's going to be. You know,
he was mean to Marco's stunt all summer and you
know that kind of thing. And Page better hope there's

(47:42):
a vaccine pretty soon so he can get back to
live crowds where.

Speaker 4 (47:45):
He's doing his stone cold Austin like gimmick that was over.

Speaker 3 (47:49):
Huge, huge babyface popularity when there were crowds.

Speaker 2 (47:54):
And getting a vaccine a week before the election.

Speaker 4 (47:57):
Yeah, I'm sure there will be an announcement.

Speaker 2 (48:00):
They have they are, they're telling states to prepare, so.

Speaker 3 (48:03):
Yeah, yeah, and then and then we have a straightforward
one on one FTR versus Bucks and can they hold
that off till whatever the November pay per view is.

Speaker 4 (48:14):
I don't know, but it'll be a good match if
nothing else.

Speaker 10 (48:25):
In twenty twelve, NXT transitioned into the developmental system and
ultimately the brand you see today. On the Torch VIP
podcast NXT Eight Years Back, we'll be taking a weekly
look at this page in NXT's early history.

Speaker 11 (48:40):
Join Kelly Wells and me Tom Stout from PWT Talks
NXT every Saturday as we go eight years back to
the day to track NXT's rising talents and why they
did or didn't work out exclusively for PW Torch VIP members.

Speaker 1 (49:01):
Yeah, yeah, Joshua your thoughts.

Speaker 6 (49:05):
Yeah, totally agree. I thank you for the summing up
the being the elite stuff. I stopped trying to keep
up with that a while ago, and I think it's
it's hard. It's frustrating, right because as a person that
does really enjoy the product and I follow it and
what's going on and somewhat behind the scenes, I mean,
it feels like I should need that catch up, but

(49:29):
it is what it is. And yeah, I agree that
at the very least we'll get a very good match.
And I don't know that anything could happen to make
this storyline a satisfactory wrap up.

Speaker 3 (49:41):
You know, they they're so obsessed with the ratings war
in the minute by minute that they seem loath to
have a lot of video packages because people flip the
channel over to the other show.

Speaker 4 (49:52):
You there's no match going on, But.

Speaker 3 (49:54):
You can easily solve for that, right you can sum up, Hey,
you know they're walking to the rain and the ring entrance.
Here's what happened on DTE this week, or here's what
happened on Dark. If it's an angle that happened on
Dark to set up, and they just won't do it,
and as a result we get this sort of you
get what Wade was talking about.

Speaker 4 (50:12):
Can't get the second million viewers because.

Speaker 3 (50:14):
You need you need a guide to aid of its
quirks and inside jokes to keep.

Speaker 1 (50:22):
I also think there's value in okay, we run a
video package. You know who's leaving us the people who
love us, because they already know this backstory and they'll
be back. Aw Ran had moved around. You know, Lost
haven't been on Wednesday for weeks. They come back to Wednesday,
they do the biggest rating they've done, and I don't.

Speaker 2 (50:38):
Have any look to chart.

Speaker 1 (50:38):
And however, many months their fans who are their fans
are not going to suddenly not watch because there's a
video package. The video package is actually I think a
value because the people who are going to stick around
and watch it are the people who want that clarification,
They want the backstory, and you can win them over
and then convert them to be they become more invested
in the characters in the storylines because they understand them more.

(50:59):
And you have the power in a video package to
emphasize the points you want to clear up any muddled
storylines or chapters that maybe didn't hit like you expected
they would, and you get people more invested in your
buy rates go up, you know, for the pay per views.

Speaker 2 (51:10):
So I don't like.

Speaker 1 (51:13):
Play long ball, you know, don't don't worry about whether
the next pitch is a strike or a ball. Only
look at the totality of the game and the pitch
count and and whatever. I don't know how we can
extend the baseball analogy intelligently from there, but you know,
it's it's a game, it's not a pitch, and so
make everything makes sense. And I think you won't You
won't be feel so desperate that you'll lose someone for

(51:33):
two minutes while you run a video package to n XT.
Because the ratings matter, but they don't matter as much.
You do more harm than good when you when you're
micro obsessed about every week's minute by minute.

Speaker 3 (51:48):
This is a company where Chris Jericho has changed his
gimmick demo god and Tony Kahan, the owner and head booker,
is on Twitter some weeks debating with fans and other
people about the ratings and what they mean. Yeah, you know,
do we want total viewers? We won the demo that
only meant right, I mean, we're Tony seems like a

(52:11):
very sprite individual, and maybe he figures out at some
point if I want to get that second million viewers,
I like. I like the way you phrased it earlier.
That's what I gotta do. But yeah, they're not there yet.

Speaker 1 (52:22):
No, no they're not. But I I just I want
it all sorted out. I want a heel Kenny. I
want the old Hangman page who doesn't make me feel
sad and depressed. And I want FTR to be clearcut heels,
not the ones who I'm watching in a segment where
they're meant to be heels and I'm nodding along, going boy,
Kenny Omega was sure a prick towards Tully with that agism.

(52:43):
You know, joke wasn't witty and it just was like me,
it's it doesn't fit anything at all about Tully's He's
not old in decrepit, he doesn't come across.

Speaker 2 (52:52):
It's just like what. So I just want to like
who I'm.

Speaker 1 (52:54):
Supposed to like and make and I want them to
make me feel happy and optimistic about the world. And
and I want the Heels to be people I want
to see get punched, like Samy Gavar, and I want
FTR to be more along the lines to people I
want to see get punched, not people who I agree with,
because I think tag ropes should be held before there's
an official tag, and I think handslapping for a tag
should be required, not slapping someone on the back. But

(53:15):
that's a losing battle for me. But I'm old school
in that way. But yeah, I just like, let's get
the Heels in roles where I don't like them and
make the baby faces likable and do something, you know,
get Kenny engaged so that I feel like I should
invest in him because he's just felt, you know, disengaged,
and he just seemed like a flake who's cash and.

Speaker 2 (53:32):
Paychecks for a year.

Speaker 1 (53:34):
So I just I want to transition into I want
all these guys transition into better places.

Speaker 3 (53:39):
Yeah, I go, Joshua in Wade, maybe you should be
managing the FTR because you have these old school beliefs
on tag wrestling.

Speaker 1 (53:46):
I don't need to. I don't need to I share
their beliefs. I can sit back and enjoy it, enjoy
them preaching about the value of tag ropes. That's at
that battle has been won with them I and they'll
do a good job preaching it and totally totally can
totally's with them too, and that anyway, Joshua.

Speaker 6 (54:01):
Yeah, uh oh, I was just gonna add one totally
on board with the outlook that you have to have
rules that heels can break. I heard it described as
I think that's the perfect way to describe it. But
is Kenny Omega retired? Is that what's happening with him
being with aw Is this his Shinsky King talking about

(54:22):
how he just likes living in Orlando, Like, is that
what's happening here? Because like he coming into it was
as far as wrestling handswer concern was the hottest wrestler
on the planet by a mile. And I can't get
people who haven't watched any in New Japan stuff.

Speaker 5 (54:39):
I can't get them to believe me. And I don't
know what's happening.

Speaker 1 (54:42):
I mean, if you told people, oh, you gotta watch
Itynamite because Keny Omega's fantastic, Yeah, and they've watched everything
on Dynamy, you'd be like, well, yeah, I mean there's
a couple of cool spots and a couple of matches
that were pretty good, and you know, an he had
a couple showcase matches, you know, before and after Dynamite existed.
But this has been a dry stretch overall relative text spectations.
He should be at his age, especially, you can't wait

(55:05):
a centerpiece attraction that defines why you should watch Dynamite.
And it's felt like, yeah, the Shinsky Nakhimer a retirement
tour for Kenny Eric. I mean, not a good grade
for how they realize them.

Speaker 4 (55:16):
This hurts me so much. This just hurts me so much.

Speaker 3 (55:19):
It hurts because it's true, right, Yes, he was so
awesome in New Japan. I mean, he was in the best,
you know, the highest star rated match, one of my
favorite matches of all time, certainly modern matches, like when
he finally won the belt into out of three falls
against Okada.

Speaker 1 (55:37):
Eight stars eight stars maybe eight and a half.

Speaker 3 (55:42):
And you know, as a as a Kenny watcher, I've
noticed he must have some sensitivity to it, because it
seems like every couple months he's got this guy at
Sports Illustrated.

Speaker 4 (55:55):
I think it's Sports Illustrated who likes.

Speaker 3 (55:57):
To just write these over the top, glowing, you know,
story columns pieces, however you want to characterize them about Kenny,
in which he waxes poetically and then Kenny provides all
of these philosophical quotes about this higher level stuff that
he's doing and maybe he'll he'll be the best tag

(56:18):
team wrestler, and you know, and it's it's just Kenny,
the Kenny pr spin machine. And people tend to react
with eye rolls on it who are discerning readers because
it's so obviously a spin job designed to kind of
rehabilitate Kenny. So he must have some sensitivity to it.
But man, TikTok, TikTok, let's get to the dominating Kenny

(56:39):
Omega if it's going to happen in aw, which is
I'm sure Kenny Omega would say, Man, you guys, calm down.

Speaker 4 (56:46):
We haven't even been had a weekly TV show for
a year. We'll get there.

Speaker 3 (56:50):
But you know the problem is when you have the
weekly TV show and you burned through so many storylines
and matches, it it feels like it's longer than a year.

Speaker 1 (56:57):
Yeah, all right, so oh Fish predictions for all of
us FTR wins and Kenny and page breakup and we finally,
you know, kind.

Speaker 2 (57:04):
Of move on from this.

Speaker 5 (57:06):
Yes, yeah, absolutely, yeah.

Speaker 1 (57:11):
Anytime you're watching ww E Raw or SmackDown or AEW
Dynamite in particular, send us an email if you've got
thoughts on the show or a topic you want us
to address, or a question for us. Wade Keller Podcast
at pwtorch dot com, Wadkeller Podcast at pewtorch dot com.
If there's anything else going on in pro wrestling that
you want us to address on our main podcast during

(57:32):
our mailbank segments, that same email applies Wadekeller Podcast at
pw toorch dot com. We invite that interaction. Let us
know what you think of what we're saying and let
us know what you want us to talk about and
ask us specific questions. Wade Keller Podcast at PW Torch
dot com. Okay, so let's shift to another match here.

(57:55):
We'll go to Dark Order Brodie Lee Coltcabana, Evil Unostu
Grayson against Matt Cardona Scorpio Sky and the Natural Nightmare
is Dustin Roads and QT Marshall with Ali h Joshua.
Your your thoughts on this? Do we do we get
a Cody appearance? It's it's you know when you talk
about aw all out not feeling WrestleMania caliber. I mean

(58:16):
a big part of it is Cody is the biggest
star of the last year. You could argue, you know,
you can make the case for Moxley and and Jericho
absolutely also, but man, Cody's been the heart and.

Speaker 2 (58:27):
Soul T and T absolutely, you know, T and T. Yeah,
so it just feels empty with him not there.

Speaker 1 (58:33):
Uh so does this lead into uh, you know, Brody,
make Cody making appearance against Brody or or is this
just sort of a match and they get to the
other stuff on Dynamite afterwards?

Speaker 6 (58:44):
Well, yeah, let me talk about I guess Cody first,
I think this if he is going to make an appearance,
I think this is definitely the time, because I think
you're right. I think even going back to the first
to all in, you know, that moment when he won
the n w A Championship was the emotional core of that, right, Like,
it's just a real wonderful, beautiful moment. And then he's
been hands down the most over babyface you know, for

(59:08):
the entire run, So it is weird that he's not involved,
and I understand he's selling whatever.

Speaker 5 (59:15):
Overall in this match.

Speaker 6 (59:18):
I hate it because eight man tag team matches are
my second least favorite type of match. The first least
favorite type of match would definitely be a three way
tag match because they're always a cluster and there's too
many people and it's just devolves into nonsense. And even
here we have a ninth person in Ali, so so
I hate it. I love everyone involved in this everyone

(59:38):
in this match I love, but the eight man tag
match format I just absolutely hate. And with Dark Order,
there's probably gonna be thirty two others that come out,
and I just not a fan.

Speaker 1 (59:50):
Eric your thoughts on this one, and Cody's absence too,
is part of the conversation.

Speaker 3 (59:55):
Yeah, I don't have a ton.

Speaker 4 (59:56):
Of notes on this match.

Speaker 3 (59:58):
I think this is the Friends of Cody match. It's
the Dark Order versus Friends of Cody. It's the don't
forget about Cody as he's off acting. If that's what
he's doing, right, if he's filming the TV show with
Steven mml heels, I don't know if that's what he's doing,
if he's shooting a movie. I mean, the good news
would be a silver lining would be that if Cody

(01:00:19):
doesn't appear, we don't have to see that horrible neck tattoo.

Speaker 4 (01:00:24):
We got him right there.

Speaker 3 (01:00:26):
But I would think Cody isn't Cody a pretty important
part of the backstage and sitting in what used to
be called the gorilla gorilla position and kind of running
things and making sure the trains run on time, which
he seems to have a skill for. And my other
note on this match was meh.

Speaker 5 (01:00:42):
Yeah, yeah, I think.

Speaker 6 (01:00:45):
I think when I was watching the road to this week,
I thought Katy Marshall's promo, I don't know if you
all saw it was very weird. It was very intense,
but it was mostly like, oh people, you know, people
call me, you know, Cody's lackey or whatever, and like
that might be true, but you don't understand the pressure
that comes with that. And like it all centered around Cody,

(01:01:05):
who's not even involved in the matchup, and it just
so for him.

Speaker 5 (01:01:09):
To not appear I think would be real weird.

Speaker 6 (01:01:10):
But if he does appear, I think it would also
take away from everyone else in this situation.

Speaker 3 (01:01:15):
So regarding that promo, who was Cody's father again, it's
slipping my mind. He did the same thing in the eighties.
If yeah, Dusty Ruds wasn't on the screen yet. Are
you talking about Dusty Rhoads?

Speaker 2 (01:01:28):
Yeah, yep, yep.

Speaker 1 (01:01:30):
All right, So moving on here, we'll talk about the
twenty one man Casino Battle Royal. I'm not gonna list
everybody in this, but somebody's gonna win, presumably and get
a future aw World title match. I could also see
the brawl just going on forever and they just cut
away to something else like last night. So Eric, your

(01:01:52):
your thoughts on the hype last night for this some
you know, big name talkers and some big bohemoths and
Lance Archer and Brian Cage and teasing what they're going
to do there you got Jack Hager in the mix,
and then just some athletic guys like uh, the Lucha Bros.
And then some wild cards like Sean Spears, Uh, Darby

(01:02:14):
Allen your thoughts on on the hype last night for
this uh? And then who you think showed or ought
to win? And I'll complicate and compound my question, which
do you expect any surprise appearances by anyone? Because they
haven't announced a full twenty one men.

Speaker 4 (01:02:28):
Yeah, so.

Speaker 3 (01:02:30):
The the Battle I have nicknames for half the mattress
on the show.

Speaker 4 (01:02:33):
Actually this is the heel Battle Oil.

Speaker 2 (01:02:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:02:36):
Really, we got on TV last night. Besides like Derby
and maybe was with Scorpio. No, No, was s Cu
out there?

Speaker 2 (01:02:45):
I mean it was Trend and Schuck Taylor. I guess, okay,
yeah the best.

Speaker 6 (01:02:49):
Maybe maybe Austin Gunn. We don't really know what he's
up to.

Speaker 3 (01:02:54):
Yeah, and I would have to I have to go
back and look at the tape, but I swear to God.
At some point one of the announcers said, oh, there
goes Serpentaco, and I'm like, wait, the job guy from Dark.

Speaker 4 (01:03:07):
That's that's the level we're talking about here. Now.

Speaker 3 (01:03:10):
I loved that first the all out, all whatever the
what was the first pay per view all in a
couple of years ago in in suburban Chicago.

Speaker 4 (01:03:20):
I was there live they had that battle.

Speaker 2 (01:03:24):
You were you were there.

Speaker 4 (01:03:26):
It was fun.

Speaker 3 (01:03:27):
I couldn't remember which one, which one's all out and
which ones all in? It's all It's all of Miss
Van Rush that was I had. I thought that was
a lot of fun. It was a well thought out,
well booked Battle Royal. The hype for this one has
been kind of throwaway. They tried Wednesday, but it just
kind of sucked. I don't know if Eddie Kingston got
lost during the middle of his promo because it was

(01:03:48):
it Jake or Taz or both of them interrupted him,
and Jake with his unfortunate Jake Black with the accusing
him of.

Speaker 4 (01:03:55):
Being drunk thing and it's man.

Speaker 3 (01:04:02):
I would have preferred instead of all of this, Michigan
as the Starks versus Derby match on pay per view.

Speaker 4 (01:04:08):
I'd love to see that. You know, Start's trying to
get revenge.

Speaker 3 (01:04:11):
For taking a skateboard thumbtack skateboard to the back. Uh,
that would be great. I think this is just the
get everyone like at WrestleMania when these.

Speaker 4 (01:04:20):
Days Alata Royals. Just to get everyone on the card match.

Speaker 3 (01:04:24):
I will to answer your other questions, I will pick
a winner.

Speaker 4 (01:04:28):
I will actually go out on a limb here.

Speaker 3 (01:04:31):
Assuming that no, there are no big surprises and debuts,
and I think Tony Kahan, if I if I read
it correctly, he.

Speaker 4 (01:04:39):
Didn't wasn't specifically talking about the Battle Royal.

Speaker 3 (01:04:41):
But you know, there's lots of keep there's lots of surprises,
and we keep a small circle with that, and there's
more surprises ahead of you in the coming weeks.

Speaker 4 (01:04:49):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (01:04:49):
They tend to they tend to debut somebody right on
each pay per view, and it's you know, Brian Cage.

Speaker 4 (01:04:56):
I think in the.

Speaker 3 (01:04:58):
May one he debuted in that was a some kind
of ladder match to get a title shot that ended
up being in the Fight for the Fallen or Fight
or Fest whichever won that.

Speaker 4 (01:05:08):
Whichever won that aired down in July.

Speaker 3 (01:05:11):
Assuming that there's no huge person debuting, and I guess
if we were going to try and figure out who
at this point, go to the list of everybody the
WWE released.

Speaker 4 (01:05:20):
Back in the spring.

Speaker 3 (01:05:21):
Yeah, when they were cutting costs when they didn't need
to and putting people out of work in the middle
of a pandemic. You might remember that Lance Archer my
pick to win. He is high in the rankings. His
only loss has been to Cody for in the TV
TNT Tournament finals earlier this year, and he has been

(01:05:41):
protected and you know, seems to be he would be
a next maybe logical TV opponent midway between now and November.
From Moxley.

Speaker 12 (01:05:52):
So searching for more great pro wrestling talk, then join
me Jason Powell, host of the three weekly Pro Wrestling
Boom podcast. Each week he'll hear the latest news and
analysis for me and my team at Pro Wrestling Dot
need along with other pro wrestling media members. Plus, the
Pro Wrestling Boom podcast features long form interviews with notable

(01:06:14):
names in the pro wrestling industry. Subscribe and iTunes, Stitcher, Downcast,
and all your favorite secondary apps, or visit us directly
at PW boom dot com. Once again, that's PW boom
dot com.

Speaker 1 (01:06:32):
So joshro over to you your thought on on this
match and who went h.

Speaker 6 (01:06:38):
Yeah overall, it's you know whatever, I agree. I think
it's to just get everyone on screen.

Speaker 5 (01:06:44):
Match.

Speaker 6 (01:06:45):
I mean, there are I think what three spots still
open for surprises, so that that's fun.

Speaker 1 (01:06:52):
I think I think people are like people would put
money on Russav being one of the guys.

Speaker 6 (01:06:56):
Yeah, I think Russa would be one of my picks.
I would love to see Niko all this, but I
don't know how realistic that is. But like looking at
the list of people who are announced, I mean, most
of them have had most of them are either jobbers
or have had shots and lost right at a title,

(01:07:16):
and so that's not super exciting. And it's also this
also bugs me where I think this is a perfect
opportunity to make this the winner receives a TNT championship shot, right,
because if they tell us, you know, the ratings, the
rankings matter.

Speaker 5 (01:07:30):
The rankings are a thing we're doing. We're doing a
sports feel.

Speaker 6 (01:07:33):
But then, like every other week, there's a way to
circumvent being in the top five to get a top
title shot, right, and or there's a match that jumbles
up who the top five is and what the rankings are.
And this feels like another one of those. And I
don't know why you have a mid card title. Why
not have all of these mid card guys get a
shot at that so that that annoys me as far

(01:07:56):
as I don't know who will win, but I would
love to see the Pentagon Junior singles run.

Speaker 1 (01:08:03):
But that was that was my pick in last night's
post show talking about this, I like that as not
someone you're ready to like headline a pay per view with,
but you build up for something on TV without spending
a card that feels too big to spend in these
in this type of circumstance.

Speaker 6 (01:08:21):
Yeah, absolutely, And so yeah, overall not pumped, But I
mean I'm always I'm always excited for debuts and would
be thrilled to see to see russev And yeah, that's
That's where I'm at.

Speaker 2 (01:08:34):
Yeah, Eric, anything else on the betteral.

Speaker 3 (01:08:39):
I applaud Josh for knowing that there are eighteen people
already announced.

Speaker 4 (01:08:44):
Major there we go.

Speaker 1 (01:08:46):
Any any dark horse candidates for you, Eric, in terms
of surprises, right, dark horses word, you're just who would
you like to see or who would you throw out
there as possibility?

Speaker 7 (01:08:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:08:55):
I think Josh made a good point about a lot
of the people who might be favorites have uh Cage
Derby have lost, had sort of had their run up,
and they're in there they're sort of floundering or you know,
I'm that floundering, but they're you know, they're.

Speaker 4 (01:09:09):
Waiting for the next big thing. I would love. Pentagon
and Phoenix have been two.

Speaker 3 (01:09:16):
Of the most underutilized wrestlers in this entire company and
either one of you know, Pentas especially deserves you get
somebody to talk or you just translate, you know, just
put some titles when he's talking, and God, the guy
can work.

Speaker 4 (01:09:32):
He's great. Phoenix is amazing worker as well.

Speaker 3 (01:09:34):
They're bad, they're so great, and they just other than
that's first pay per view.

Speaker 4 (01:09:41):
A year ago, all out one, I guess, uh, they
just have not done enough of them.

Speaker 3 (01:09:47):
I know part of that is due to the pandemic,
but even before they were just they were just floundering.

Speaker 4 (01:09:52):
I thought we were going to get the start of
something with the is a.

Speaker 3 (01:09:55):
Death Triangle, the the trio they were going to be
in with Park and then the it's that's gone.

Speaker 4 (01:10:02):
So I yeah, I don't candidate would be whoever debut
is right? I guess right?

Speaker 5 (01:10:09):
And is Pop stuck overseas? Is that what's happening?

Speaker 2 (01:10:14):
Yeah? Yeah, I think you yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:10:16):
You I don't know that he could get back in
after being in uh COVID infested Florida.

Speaker 1 (01:10:22):
Yeah, and and I don't know what it says about
uh and Helico and Jack Evans that they're not even
in this, you know, and they're on you know, a
W Dark and they're just taking I mean, so when
we're talking about filling in spots, I mean a Kip
Saviian too. He's not listed for this, is he? Uh No,
Peter Avalon, Brandon Cutler. I mean there's there's some a

(01:10:44):
W Dark, you know, mainstays who you know, I just
want to lower expectations. You know, they could end up
being you know, one or two of the final three
spots that haven't been announced yet too.

Speaker 3 (01:10:56):
They edited dark there. I don't know if they're just
not airing one Monday, but they aired one. They're airing
one Friday. I don't know that any matches have been announced,
but maybe that's their solution to get some other dudes
on the card.

Speaker 2 (01:11:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:11:09):
Yeah, they can have like a mini battle World to
determine who gets the last the last open spot. I appreciow,
but I'm not suggesting that. I'm just saying they might
do that.

Speaker 3 (01:11:19):
Let me be clear, Well, Wade, you wouldn't know because
you're too busy to watch aw Dark, But finally Brandon
Cutler and Peter Avalon had their breakup and Peter Avalon.

Speaker 4 (01:11:28):
Attacked him after their latest tag team loss this week.

Speaker 3 (01:11:31):
So I'm looking forward to the singles match when one
of them will get.

Speaker 4 (01:11:35):
Off that night and get their first W.

Speaker 3 (01:11:37):
I actually amartimately, it's been going on for so long
it's a guilty pleasure, I guess.

Speaker 7 (01:11:42):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (01:11:44):
All right, great, let's move to brit Baker big SWALLZ
speaking of non paper. So I'm trying to do this
as random as possible, like if you haven't noticed in
terms of match order, because you know, just building biggest
the smallest or smallest and biggest whatever is a little
too form leg for me today at least. So Yeah,
Britt Baker, Big Swool with Riba Rebel with Britt Baker. Eric,

(01:12:07):
your thoughts on on what they did to build this up?
And all this time spent on Britt Baker on TV
and it's a tooth and nail pre show match.

Speaker 3 (01:12:16):
I believe I heard or read somewhere credible that it's
a cinematic match, possibly at Britt Baker's office, dental office.
And the reason for that is because Brit is still
not one hundred percent, So if that's true, I guess
that explains it.

Speaker 4 (01:12:33):
Yea good.

Speaker 3 (01:12:36):
The good news is they will get to tape this
match ahead of time. It edit out all of the
botch spots of I'm going to guess, of which there
would be many if it were a traditional match. I
hope it's better than the two on one match that
Swoll had a win to get here. I done Dynamite
last week. I don't see how it could be any worse.

Speaker 4 (01:12:55):
That was that was just a disaster the Rebel n
L before and versus Big Swell match.

Speaker 3 (01:13:04):
I never saw a fake pizza delivery used to attack
someone in wrestling.

Speaker 4 (01:13:08):
That was the setup angle, So I props on that.

Speaker 3 (01:13:12):
I assume brit wins by cheating, because even though you
would like to see Swall get her get her just desserts,
Britt Baker get her come up, and Britt is coming back,
and I presume they're going to push her to the
moon in the women's division because they just don't have
a lot going on there. Britt will be entertaining if

(01:13:33):
nothing else. She is a walking riot since she turned heel.

Speaker 4 (01:13:37):
I don't know what a.

Speaker 3 (01:13:38):
Tooth and nail match is does any maybe they've explained it,
and I just I just don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:13:45):
And then I don't.

Speaker 2 (01:13:46):
Even want to know.

Speaker 1 (01:13:48):
I mean, I get the or you know, the play
on words, but I don't know that I want to
know what the stipulations are.

Speaker 2 (01:13:52):
These are I don't want to mind.

Speaker 1 (01:13:54):
They're both torture, like you know, you torture someone through
you know, the nerves in your teeth. You know, like
it's going to be We're gonna throw your teeth without
without novacane, and then like, you know, shoving a file
up your fingernails. It's like it sounds like some sort
of weird torture match designed as some wordplay for a
fun gimmick match. So I'm a little worried about what
we're going to see in the cinematic battle are I guess?

Speaker 3 (01:14:14):
I guess the biggest question I have is why the
heck is this on the buy in? This is the
buying is always people rag on the buy in for
being bad, and I think they have been pretty bad
over the year, over the you know, the five pay
per views we have to go on, and this does
not make me want to buy the pay per view
right it's not getting me to hit the it's it's

(01:14:36):
a not insignificant decision to spend fifty bucks as opposed
to ten bucks, you know, on the network subscription.

Speaker 4 (01:14:43):
So how is this drawing people in and sealing the deal?

Speaker 3 (01:14:47):
I do not know for the life of me, why
this gimmick match is the thing you put on the
buy in show?

Speaker 2 (01:14:53):
Yeah, Josh, what your thoughts?

Speaker 5 (01:14:56):
That's my big takeaway.

Speaker 6 (01:14:58):
One is they have got to figure out what they're
doing with their pre shows, right because it's yeah, you
put this, you put this on, and I'm changing the
channel right like this is. I don't know as far
as far as the winner goes, I happen to think
I think Big Swool is gonna get her come up.

Speaker 5 (01:15:16):
And because I think this.

Speaker 6 (01:15:17):
Is the lowest possible stakes that a wrestling match could have,
and Brick take a win a loss here and it's
not gonna matter even a little bit.

Speaker 5 (01:15:27):
I think these are two.

Speaker 6 (01:15:31):
Women whose work is not the not the the cleanest.

Speaker 13 (01:15:36):
Uh.

Speaker 6 (01:15:36):
You know, BRIT's great carried by her character work, which
is which is wonderful.

Speaker 1 (01:15:42):
Uh.

Speaker 6 (01:15:42):
And Big Swool has a great look, but just the
entering work is it leaves a lot to be desired,
So if it is a pre taped cinematic match, that
will I agree, definitely boost the quality. But I don't
know why this would be on the buy in. Are
not thrown somewhere in the middle of the paper if

(01:16:03):
they're set on doing it.

Speaker 1 (01:16:04):
Yeah, we're about to go to a commercial break. Why
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Speaker 2 (01:16:43):
All right, let's.

Speaker 1 (01:16:45):
Move to two of the top matches here, two of
because maybe some would have the take title match bigger,
but Chris Jericho, Orange Cassidy Memosa Mayhem match, I think
it's genius to feud Chris Jericho with a Bubbly and
Orange Cassidy with his name and not end up with
a Mimosa gimmick match. Eric, did you chuckle? Did you

(01:17:06):
roll your eyes? What was your action to the stipulation?
The play on words and the actual idea of a
vat of orange juice and Bubbly at ringside is one
of the ways to end this match.

Speaker 3 (01:17:21):
Well, when I first they first did it, I'm like,
what the heck is this crap? This sounds stupid, And
then I started thinking about it, Well, what's the motivation here?
And in a normal match, this is the blowoff match,
the rubber match, the third one in the series. Was like, well,
if it's a normal wrestling match, Jericho's already jobbed.

Speaker 4 (01:17:39):
To one once. Even though it was kind of a
fluke fluke pin.

Speaker 3 (01:17:44):
This is a This is a perfect stipulation because it's
a great way for Jericho to lose the feud and
he doesn't have to do a job right here, he
did a job at Orange Cassidy once. He doesn't, you know,
he probably doesn't want to lay down for him again, and.

Speaker 4 (01:18:00):
It elevates Orange Cassidy because.

Speaker 3 (01:18:02):
He won the feud and Orange Cassidy needs to be
elevated if they are building him, and so that that
was my reaction to the step. The build itself has
been good, you know, we had that that again I
can't remember. I mean, this is this has been going
on for what six weeks? It's been a nice six week,
seven week however long it's been a program. We had

(01:18:24):
that carry segment or the they're in the ring and
Orange dumps the gallons of orange juice on him and
there were beat downs, you know, Orange Cassidy took.

Speaker 4 (01:18:35):
His lumps, the heels beat him down.

Speaker 3 (01:18:36):
There was a brawl to end the show, I believe
last week, and then they had the the you know,
another segment last night. I mean, at this point, you
as a fan, want to see Chris Jericho flailing in
that stupid vat of orange juice and and the bubbly
and it's gonna be a great visual and Jericho, presumably

(01:18:57):
will ham it up.

Speaker 4 (01:18:58):
It's the only finish that makes sense.

Speaker 3 (01:18:59):
No, but he wants to see Orange Cassidy thrown into
a bat what you know, he doesn't.

Speaker 4 (01:19:04):
He's not going to overreact to it. He's not gonna react.

Speaker 3 (01:19:06):
At all, because I give my kiss to just not
react anything, and uh, you know you want to pay
to see that? What do I want to pay to see?
I want to pay to see Max and m JF.
I want to pay to see Chris Jericho flailing in
this vat.

Speaker 4 (01:19:22):
I mean you know, I know, wait.

Speaker 3 (01:19:23):
For you, this fifty dollars pay per view will be
a tax right off for me. It's not fifty dollars
out of my pocket, and I am happy to pay.

Speaker 2 (01:19:31):
It, all right, Joshua, your your thoughts completely agree.

Speaker 6 (01:19:37):
I'm paying to see Mimosa Mayhem and Omega Page versus FTR.
Those are the two matches for me. I'm a huge fan.
I've been a huge fan of Chris Jericho forever and
a big fan of Orange. Cassidy is consistently the only,
uh the only wrestler that non wrestling fans bring up
to me when we're talking about like he is. He's

(01:20:00):
so over and so entertaining, and I think, if you're
listening and you haven't seen his match against Gentleman Jervis
from Wrestle Circlus, go check it out. He is the
peak of comedy wrestling. For me, I love him and
I think this.

Speaker 5 (01:20:14):
I totally agree that.

Speaker 6 (01:20:15):
As soon as I heard the stipulation for this one,
I said, that's genius, just the name of it. But
then also I had that visual of Chris Jericho in
the vat foiling around being Chris Jericho, and I'm pumped.
This is It's so fun to me, and wrestling is
not as fun as it should be, and this is
this is great.

Speaker 3 (01:20:34):
A personal note about Orange Cassidy, so AW has fortunately
for me, I live in the Chicago area, and AW
has made Chicago kind of a home base. A bunch
of their pay per views have been from Chicago. And
there was that was that Conrad Thompson convention. What was
it called super Cast was that the name of it?

(01:20:55):
At a hotel and there were a whole bunch of
meet and greets and I I'm not the type of
person who's going to post pictures of me with wrestlers
on social media.

Speaker 4 (01:21:04):
That is not my brand. But I did.

Speaker 3 (01:21:07):
I did pay ten dollars as I got a half
off thing to I wanted to ask Orange Cassidy a question.

Speaker 4 (01:21:15):
And I was happy to pay my ten dollars to
do it.

Speaker 3 (01:21:18):
And I said, look, man, you're super entertaining your gimmick
is super This postmodern thing is unique if you know
at the time, the concerns where you're going to be
on television weekly and it's going to.

Speaker 4 (01:21:31):
Get old real fast unless it evolves a little bit.
And he didn't give up.

Speaker 3 (01:21:35):
He didn't give up the ghost on the direction of
his character, but he said, yeah, the general gist of it,
not verbatim quotes, was yeah, I understand that we have
a plan.

Speaker 4 (01:21:47):
I'm really excited about it. I think it's going to
work out.

Speaker 1 (01:21:50):
And man if he wasn't right, yeah, yeah, and the
idea that he's more cat like than sloth like in
that he'll just lay around, but then out of nowhere,
he just darts across the room.

Speaker 2 (01:22:01):
You know, like if you've ever looked with a cat,
that's what they do. They just like, what just happened?
And why did you just do that?

Speaker 1 (01:22:07):
And you know, they see a spot on the wall
or a bug or they just have a thought in
their head.

Speaker 2 (01:22:12):
Who knows what it is?

Speaker 1 (01:22:13):
And yeah, they like the idea that they've added, Like
you know, remember the zombie movie where the zombies could
run really fast as a twist, like, yeah, so which
one was that they.

Speaker 5 (01:22:21):
Go two twenty four days later something like that.

Speaker 1 (01:22:26):
Yeah, absolutely, Yeah, so you know, it's a twist. I
don't know if that was kind of part of his
plan or just a necessary component of functioning as a
restaurant national TV, but things have worked out well for him.
And I mean, to go from the sidekick to a
mid card tag team to the mid card tag team
being your sidekick and you're essentially co headlining a major
pay per view against Chris Jericho, who is you know,

(01:22:49):
either their top paid star or you know, right there
and certainly name value and legacy and all that, and
the TV time and just that. I think if they
had live crowds, this would be over big. You know,
AW fans are discerning in certain ways, but they will
lap up certain things too that are on This is
on brand for what I think AW fans want in

(01:23:09):
the mix of their wrestling, which is good in their mind.
And I agree, good smart comedy and Jericho and Cassidy
have been a lot of fun playing off of each other.
I've enjoyed this and I'm looking forward to what they do,
you know, I mean it er Jerich was a little
off the hook. Happened to have you know, a five
star main event match or whatever. You know, the demands
that that have followed him around since heck is Smoking

(01:23:32):
Mountain days when he and Landstorm or such a good
tag team. You know, he gets to enter this other
phase of his career. But he's so talented, he's I
think he's gonna pull it off, and I think it's
going to be a lot of fun.

Speaker 2 (01:23:41):
Anything else, Eric on this match? Eric, are you muted?

Speaker 7 (01:23:44):
Now?

Speaker 2 (01:23:45):
You're muted? Now you're unmuted?

Speaker 4 (01:23:46):
No, sir, there you are nothing else.

Speaker 2 (01:23:48):
Okay, Joshua, anything else?

Speaker 6 (01:23:50):
Yeah, just real quick, I want to inoculate you against
some fan comments. Later with two quick corrections, it's twenty
eight days later on him on the movie and Conrad's
convenation is star cast.

Speaker 1 (01:24:04):
Oh good, okay, good from the Department of Corrections.

Speaker 2 (01:24:07):
Thank you of course. Yes.

Speaker 14 (01:24:16):
I'm Kelly Wells, host of PWT Talks NXT, the longest
running NXT podcast Anywhere. Join me along with Nate Lindberg,
Bruce Lee, Hazelwood, and special guests live every Tuesday night,
just minutes after NXT, where we cover the good, the bad,
and the ugly on the way to becoming a star
in WWE. Check us out live on YouTube or stream later.

Speaker 4 (01:24:37):
Wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 2 (01:24:50):
All right, so we'll wrap up.

Speaker 1 (01:24:51):
I think we covered everything with the main event and
John Moxley m JAFF. We tipped our hand a little
bit earlier about you know, the MJFF as a as
a heel challenger to John Moxley on a Marquee show
like All Out, I have contended and I think it's
played out the way that I expected that, and Jeff
it just seeming a not short of being ready to

(01:25:14):
be taken seriously as a threat to Moxley on a
storyline level, on a metal level, as a performer, even
super talented.

Speaker 2 (01:25:24):
I mean it was just two years ago.

Speaker 1 (01:25:26):
I went to an indie show the night before All
In and saw him perform, and he for the first time,
and he was great, and it's like wow, But I
don't know that I'm glad, you know, I think he's
a super valuable part of AW But it just doesn't
feel like even with the record he's had, they showed
us that he was vicious and we weren't quite sure.

(01:25:47):
Is he the sidekick to a badass who's a big
mouthpiece and annoying and sells or is he the bad
ass who has a bodyguard and he kicks ass and
and is a threat to the very best wrestlers in
the company. Joshua, where were you when this started? And
and where are you now? In terms of has this
helped to heart MGF? Has he has he earned his
way into the spot? Was it a late surge last night?

Speaker 7 (01:26:10):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:26:10):
Kind of talk about the aspect of him as the challenger.

Speaker 6 (01:26:15):
I am a huge believer in the upcoming trajectory of
MJF as a heel. I think he is so super talented.
I don't think he's there yet. You know, we talked
a little bit at the top of the show. I
don't think he's built up into a credible challenger for
uh for for Moxley, and I don't think that's completely

(01:26:38):
his full Any part of it is the sort of
the build and treatment that Moxley has been given. Is
he is superpowered, you know right now? But I do
think I agree with you know, everyone every commentator that
MGF is going to be an absolute superstar, and I
just don't think.

Speaker 5 (01:26:55):
I don't think it's there yet.

Speaker 2 (01:26:57):
Eric sand you.

Speaker 3 (01:27:00):
They protected MJF. You know, I don't think he's eating
a pin in aw yet certainly not the singles match.
He is old school through and through. He is an
eighties throwback. He clearly looks to the eighties for his
inspiration and his promos, and probably the nineties and two
thousands too.

Speaker 4 (01:27:20):
But.

Speaker 3 (01:27:22):
He's an eighties throwback guy. In the ring, there's nothing
he's He's a decent worker. I mean, I thought his
match with Jungle Boy was very enjoyable and very good.

Speaker 4 (01:27:32):
But he's not.

Speaker 3 (01:27:35):
He's not a consistent four or five star guy, right,
He's maybe a consistent three, three and a half four
start at the high end type of guy, depending on
who he's in there with, and so more punching and
kicking and sort of old school cocky heel, you know,
Roddy Piper esque, which it seems to be who he's
patterned after in a lot of ways. He'll I you know,

(01:28:00):
maybe it's because I deal with I've dealt with politicians
for most of my twenty six year journalism career, but
I kind of rolled my eyes at the whole campaign gimmick.

Speaker 4 (01:28:11):
That he was doing.

Speaker 3 (01:28:12):
It had its moments, but you know, it was those
people just existed as props to have MJF pick on them.
For various things, and it did build heat, but it
was kind of this abrupt shift out of nowhere. And
I wonder if the MJF who took on Cody and
didn't wasn't didn't have you know, in ward low, but
he didn't have all this other brass band type stuff

(01:28:36):
going on, and entourage would have been more effective in
this build people. You know, most your average person doesn't
really feel like dealing with politics, right, They're not huge
fans of politicians, so might have might have been off putting.
And then so let's get to you know, Moxley. He's

(01:28:56):
sort of in his promos, he's like, he's like Paul
him it was with brock Lesner.

Speaker 4 (01:29:01):
He doesn't quite.

Speaker 3 (01:29:02):
Say that's not a prediction, it's a spoiler, but he
says what he's gonna do, and then he goes out.

Speaker 2 (01:29:09):
And does it right.

Speaker 4 (01:29:11):
It's great.

Speaker 3 (01:29:12):
I mean, I guess maybe they can't use the paradigm shift,
so maybe that creates a little mystery.

Speaker 4 (01:29:17):
But then he gave us for prom He's.

Speaker 3 (01:29:19):
Like, ah no, I'm thinking about ways I want to
torture the heck out of you.

Speaker 1 (01:29:22):
And it's show self awareness too. Taking the paradigm shift away.
It's meant to sort of send a message of well,
there's an excuse, this is a meta thing. There's an
excuse if Moxley loses, and then he'll get a rematch
and he'll get to use a paradigm shift and win.
But I don't think that's enough, and I think it
also just sort of it could have backfired in the
sense that that stipulation made it seem like MGFF isn't

(01:29:43):
actually at Moxley's level and needed to finangle his way
into getting an unfair advantage, you know, to start, which
might have played into the perception of MJFF is not
at Moxley's level yet and actually reinforced it more than
it offset it.

Speaker 4 (01:29:57):
Yeah, that was the risk.

Speaker 3 (01:29:58):
I'm sure the intent that they had was to to
build heel heat on him. Right, he took away Moxley's
move because he.

Speaker 4 (01:30:04):
Out renev it or maneuver it to him or whatever.

Speaker 3 (01:30:07):
At the end of the day, though, this is the
pay per view main event, and it's it's one of
a couple matches, probably only matches that you're gonna hit
the button, hit that pay button and take fifty dollars
out of your iTunes credits or however it is you're
gonna watch it. You know, I liked that MJF finally
did the class you know, like this neck brace gamic
so many weeks with it and then he finally they

(01:30:29):
finally paid it off, right, did the beat down, savage
beat down with blood of of mox And now you
want to see mox get revenged? Do I, as a
fan want to see mj F get his butt kicked? Yes,
that I do. He busted him open and mox needs
to get his revenge, and man, I want to see
the heel get his get his come up. And uh,

(01:30:50):
that's very basic and basic works that you know.

Speaker 1 (01:30:56):
That's a sign of a having the right guy on
top and slotted right and confident. Is Moxley cutting a
straightforward promo. You're not trying to talk for twelve minutes
in the ring. You're not adding a bunch of extra stuff.
You're not having writers come up with a ton of
extra jokes or Facebook thing, you know, I'm sorry photoshopped
things for you. You're just going out there and just

(01:31:17):
I mean, what Moxley did works in any era. When
you're over, when you know who you are and the
fans like you, you just line up the heels, and
it's just what you said, Eric, line up a heel
who fans want to see the baby Face beat. And
even if you think the baby Face is going to win,
you still want to be there to see it because
you know, whether it's because you want to see Bobby
Heenan's reaction to whoever he's managing loose to Hogan, or
or if it's you think there's a threat to Hogan,

(01:31:38):
but you still want to see him win. It worked
for Hokog and it worked for Bruno, on and on.
I mean, so this is a winning formula and we'll
just line them up. And that gets to my next
question for both of you, which is beyond this, and
we'll wrap up with this point. Should Moxley not only
retain the title, but just keep the title, you know,
like and just line up the heels, and that should

(01:32:00):
be the focus of AW should be building up a
conveyor belt of heels for Moxley every one to three
months to knock down, and then you set the next
pin up and you build them up and then you
knock them down and keep it simple, because sometimes if
I feel like a tow's making things more complicated, six
layers of chest as you put it, three D tik.

Speaker 2 (01:32:19):
Tac toe whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:32:21):
Just keep it simple and let us like the wrestlers
you've hired and who are slotted well and are in
their prime, and if their baby face, let us cheer
them kicking the ass of the heel who we want
to see get punched in the face and humiliated.

Speaker 2 (01:32:33):
It is that simple when you do it well. So Josha,
what are you first?

Speaker 5 (01:32:37):
I yeah, I would absolutely be okay with that.

Speaker 6 (01:32:40):
I'm a big fan of long title reigns, and I
think that the constant changes all of the WWE does
nothing but damage not the championship and also my interest
in the championship matches. So if that's what they want
to do, they just want to do the conveyor belt
the heels that Moxley knocks down, that's that's okay with me.

Speaker 1 (01:33:02):
And Eric Long tid Rand from Oxy or do you
think they should freshen it up sooner with Cody or
Kenny or Hangman Page or someone else.

Speaker 3 (01:33:11):
I mean, so we're still in the pandemic, there aren't
big crowds, and it's a lot easier to go ahead
and to an upset or to reset and go in
a different direction. When you have you know, the aw's
sixth man, which is the crowds and the reaction and
the just the molten heat, you get weak to weak
or did pre pandemic who knows it, But it's when

(01:33:33):
it's going back to the other way. So why not
just stick with Moxley and ride it until ride.

Speaker 4 (01:33:40):
That study hand the thing that makes sense.

Speaker 3 (01:33:42):
They're the AW on top at least starting with Jericho
and and then transitioning at Moxley and at the end
of February. They're not swerving the smart marks like WWE.
They don't feel like they have to get one over
and swerve for the sake of swerving, and it's very
gratuitous and frustrating as a fan.

Speaker 4 (01:34:03):
So yeah, sure line up.

Speaker 3 (01:34:04):
Another heel is that is that you know they've done
that to great effect with Moxley already, do they? You know?
And and Cody and Lance Archer, Right, they bring in
a new big monster and Cody or Moxley has slayed
the dragon.

Speaker 4 (01:34:17):
They did it with Brian Cage. They could do it.

Speaker 3 (01:34:22):
You know, if Rusev debuts and wins the Battle Royal
they've got a that that six weeks from this pay
per view and six weeks before the next pay per
view in November, you've got that sort of mid term
big show popa rating opponent lined up or you know,
whoever wins, whoever wins the battle, Rold, I guess you
could do that with So yeah, I think that's the
way to go, as you suggested with.

Speaker 1 (01:34:43):
All right, so just overall prediction, we all agree Moxley's
beating on Jeff and that's what they should do.

Speaker 6 (01:34:49):
Josh Way, Yeah, absolutely absolutely, and Eric exact a mundown.

Speaker 2 (01:34:54):
Yeah, all right, cool. Anything else that you want to
bring up about the show that I didn't bring up? Eric?

Speaker 3 (01:34:58):
First, they seem to be building like a whole last night.
They had this complicated graphic that was hard to follow.
It like kind of like when they're doing the NCAA
tournament and there's all these different games at different stations
and they do graphics.

Speaker 4 (01:35:11):
He You're trying to figure out what that's going on.

Speaker 3 (01:35:13):
But they seem to have this whole series of there's
Dark on Friday, and then there's the something on TNT
to preview the show. Then there's two different red carpet ceremonies,
ones on YouTube and ones on tn T or.

Speaker 4 (01:35:26):
I think it was all.

Speaker 3 (01:35:28):
Confusing and hard to follow, but they seem to be
trying to, you know, create the idea that this is
a big event through that kind of thing. So I'm
interested to see how all that comes together and how
it all works. Their video packages are really great, and
I don't know if anyone's going to be tuning in
the TNT necessarily at four point thirty or whatever it

(01:35:48):
is five thirty on Eastern on a Saturday.

Speaker 4 (01:35:51):
To watch it, but.

Speaker 3 (01:35:53):
Maybe they'll get a few more last second bys. I
do wonder does will Tony Kin make a decision on
whether to stay with Moxley is Champion depending on what
the buy rate is?

Speaker 7 (01:36:05):
Right?

Speaker 4 (01:36:05):
Yeah, we're fully in the pandemic.

Speaker 3 (01:36:07):
Some people aren't gonna be able to afford the fifty
dollars and you can't, you you know. Although on the
other hand, I guess UFC saw a little bit of
a bump because people can't gather in groups as much as.

Speaker 4 (01:36:18):
They used to or so, I don't know, maybe he
gets a bump from that. But is Tony Khan that
kind of guy?

Speaker 3 (01:36:25):
Hey, Max, we're down to seventy five thousand buys we're
going to go? Is you know know that you're dropping
the title of the next show.

Speaker 1 (01:36:32):
Although that that's moron, MJF and Jericho and Cassidy and
a gimmick Matt, you can you can pick and choose
who you blame. You know, they would need some further
evidence that it was Moxley for that to be justified.
But if they're looking for an excuse, that would be.

Speaker 4 (01:36:46):
It, right, Yeah, you know, just throwing that out there, look.

Speaker 2 (01:36:49):
In the head yep, and I'll talk to any closing
words from you.

Speaker 6 (01:36:54):
Yeah, I think, you know, just talking with you guys
has gotten me more height for this show than I want. Yes,
specifically Eric bringing up, you know, the mgf's in ring style,
I think watching how that interacts with Moxley's much harder
hitting style, I think might elevate MGF in a way
that I wasn't anticipating. And I'm looking forward to that.

(01:37:17):
And I don't think that they changed the booking based
on the buyer rate. I would hope that they don't.
And yeah, I think I think this is gonna be
a real passable pay per view. I don't think I
will feel ripped off.

Speaker 1 (01:37:31):
All right, Thanks guys so much for the conversation. Cool
to introduce you, Joshua to the podcast audience.

Speaker 2 (01:37:39):
We'll have to do this again.

Speaker 5 (01:37:40):
Yeah, thanks, It is great being here, and.

Speaker 1 (01:37:42):
Eric, when I get over all the write off comments,
I'll invite you back to Thanks Wade, take care guys.
So now we're going to move to the media conference call.
As I noted in our introduction earlier, this is Tony
Kahin talking to wrestling media earlier today. PW Torch columnist
Sean Radikin who you heard on Tuesday's flight Ship show.
I hope we talked about a large swath of issues

(01:38:03):
in professional wrestling, WWEAWNXTAM, New Japan and otherwise. He was
with me on Tuesday. He also joined this conference call
and took part in it. So enjoy this freewheeling conversation
with wrestling media and Tony Kahn talking about aw all
out here we go. Give yourself a reason to look
forward to going into the mailbox each week with a

(01:38:23):
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dot com slash paper copy. It's twelve pages every week
packed with my TV reports along with exclusive features such
as my cover story on the top story of the week,
our pay per view roundtable reviews from the Torch staff,
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(01:38:45):
Alan Coonahan and Zach Hadorn, Torch Talk, transcripts, the latest
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Take a break from screen time and settle in every
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(01:39:06):
home delivery for just ninety nine dollars, or try us
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slash paper Copy.

Speaker 15 (01:39:20):
Thank you all for joining us. This Saturday night, AW
will broadcast the second edition of All Out from Daily's place,
Amphitheater in Jacksonville, Florida, and what's shaping out.

Speaker 4 (01:39:30):
To be one of the biggest shows of the year.

Speaker 15 (01:39:32):
We have three world championship titles on the line, a
twenty one man casino Battle Royale, as well as some
wildly entertaining matchups across the border.

Speaker 7 (01:39:41):
There's a lot to cover today. We have about forty
five minutes or.

Speaker 15 (01:39:44):
So, so let's dispense with their opening remarks and Tony
is ready to go. So if we're all ready to go,
let's go right away to the lines. And Robin, if
you'd open the line to Kenny McIntosh.

Speaker 4 (01:39:54):
From inside the rope, so we'll get start it.

Speaker 7 (01:39:59):
Hey, Tony, going very well. Kenny, great to hear from you.
Thank you thanks to the time.

Speaker 16 (01:40:04):
I really appreciate We're all body expected all at this Saturday.
I wanted to ask you maybe it's a controversial question.

Speaker 7 (01:40:10):
I hope not.

Speaker 16 (01:40:11):
And Chris Jericho had said, I think it was last weekend.
He didn't really think that the ft W bailt meant
that much at ADW so far. I just can once
to get your comments. And obviously there's three male singles titles,
and what we can maybe expect coming up with the
FTW title to give it more.

Speaker 17 (01:40:29):
The f TW title will be treated totally differently than
the other titles.

Speaker 7 (01:40:33):
I'm really glad you asked that, Kenny.

Speaker 2 (01:40:35):
Uh.

Speaker 7 (01:40:36):
I'm working on a pilot and.

Speaker 17 (01:40:38):
It's a different kind of a project than the way
you see in wrestling titles defended traditionally, and it's very
different from obviously how we use the World Heavyweight title
and the T and T title. So the AW World
title and the T and T title I think have
been treated as very very important titles and.

Speaker 7 (01:40:57):
I really really feel great about both those belts.

Speaker 17 (01:40:59):
And they're champions, and the FTW title and Brian Cage
I feel good about too, but we haven't totally established
it yet. And to be honest, our plans for the
FTW title there's a lot in store and I'm excited
about it.

Speaker 7 (01:41:11):
So I'm glad you asked. Thanks Kenny. All right, Thanks Kenny.

Speaker 15 (01:41:16):
Next up, I'm gonna call on Bill Pritchard from Wrestle Zone.

Speaker 7 (01:41:20):
Do you there, Hey, Tony? How are you? I'm well belt,
Thanks man, It's great to hear from you.

Speaker 18 (01:41:26):
So I wanted to get your opinion on the response
to the tooth and nail match so far. I know
some people online were less than thrilled that it's going
to be on the buy in, So do you have
any comment just to reassure fans or make them realize
that this is an opportunity for them and for more
people to see the all out pay per view And

(01:41:47):
it's not really his emotion.

Speaker 7 (01:41:49):
That's absolutely true.

Speaker 17 (01:41:51):
I've always felt that way, and we put from the
first pay per view we did double or nothing.

Speaker 7 (01:41:55):
We put some of our biggest.

Speaker 17 (01:41:56):
Stars, including Hangman and MJF on the in and the
idea of it.

Speaker 7 (01:42:02):
The reason it's called to buy in is because we
try and put exciting stuff on this first hour of the.

Speaker 17 (01:42:08):
Show so that people will pay to see the whole show.
I love wrestling fans, and I've often said that wrestling
is my favorite economy, and it is a strange and
elastic economy. Is the only place in the world where
you'll have people complaining about getting something for free that
they don't have to be fifty dollars for. And I

(01:42:29):
think that's great because like the prestige of the quarterly
pay per views, it shows how important I think we
made getting on the main card. But at the same time,
this is a great important match for us. I'm not
I think you'll see a lot more of Britain Big
School and.

Speaker 7 (01:42:45):
I'm excited about this.

Speaker 17 (01:42:46):
This isn't going to be a traditional wrestling match. The
pay per view is going to be very, very wrestling
heavy and not a story heavy. I'm sure we'll talk
more on this call about it, but philosophically.

Speaker 7 (01:42:59):
Like last Night, the second hour was more story.

Speaker 17 (01:43:03):
Based stuff to get you ready for the pay per view,
you know, similar to what we did for Revolution.

Speaker 7 (01:43:10):
We had a very wrestling heavy first hour.

Speaker 17 (01:43:12):
In Kansas City with Kenny Omega and Pack in the
Iron Man match, and the second hour was more story stuff.
And Chris Jericho and John Moxley did the way in
last night. He was great wrestling in the first hour
and good to wrestling the second hour too. I thought
particularly Thunderose and Serena Dee were excellent. But with Britain Swoll,

(01:43:34):
there's like gonna be a ton of great wrestling on
this card.

Speaker 7 (01:43:36):
Their match is going to be.

Speaker 17 (01:43:38):
Cinematic, frankly, and it's gonna be great. We're gonna have
a live crowd there, and we thought for the live crowd,
given the kind of match they're going to have in
this situation, this isn't the Britain Swoll can and will
have great wrestling matches. I think this will be a
little bit different, but it's also gonna be a lot
of fun, and it's gonna be free for everybody to

(01:44:00):
check out, and I think all the great wrestling everybody's
gonna get on the pay per view will be worth
the money.

Speaker 7 (01:44:07):
But it's a great question.

Speaker 17 (01:44:07):
I don't think it affects the status of the match.
It's more about the tone of the match, frankly, and
also the fact that it's good placement.

Speaker 7 (01:44:16):
It's a good advertisement for broad fans. Aw.

Speaker 17 (01:44:19):
We think it's gonna be a great match and it's
going to be going out to a big audience.

Speaker 15 (01:44:24):
All right, Thanks Bill, That's stuff I'd like to call
on Connor Casey from Common Book.

Speaker 7 (01:44:31):
Connor, are you there?

Speaker 19 (01:44:33):
Connor?

Speaker 7 (01:44:33):
You have to unmute your line, Hey, Connor.

Speaker 4 (01:44:39):
Are we good?

Speaker 7 (01:44:40):
Yeah?

Speaker 20 (01:44:40):
Man, awesome, Hey, Tony, thank you for doing this.

Speaker 4 (01:44:44):
Really appreciate it.

Speaker 7 (01:44:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 20 (01:44:47):
In the past few weeks, we have seen NWA power
footage on Dynamite, We've heard Billy Corgan's voice, and obviously
we've seen thunder Rosa more than a few times, and
she's got this big match on Sam. What is the
working relationship between ae W and NWA as it stands
right now, it's.

Speaker 17 (01:45:07):
The working relationship between us is the extent of a
good personal relationship between Billy Corgan and me. I've had
a good relationship with Billy for years, long before I
got into the wrestling business. Frankly, I'm good friends with
Chris Nowinsky. I really believe in Chris's work, and I think,
you know, the Concussion Legacy Foundation does great work. Chris

(01:45:30):
has come in at my request and spoken to all
of the aw talent, and we have a good relationship
with the Concussion Legacy Foundation. And Chris is my good friend,
and he introduced me to Billy years ago, and I
went to one of Billy's concerts. He's a very nice
guy and I have a lot of respect for Billy
as a musician. The NWA has got great history. They

(01:45:53):
aren't really operating right now. I think we're very very
different companies in a very different place. And I think
the NWA it sounds like they're to get back to running,
and I wish Billy the best of the stuff he's doing.
And I thought this would be a good opportunity for
them and for us because thunder Ro's is great and
I thought she would be a great challenger for Shida.

Speaker 7 (01:46:11):
So it's one of those situations.

Speaker 17 (01:46:13):
Where I thought it would make sense for both sides,
which is why I proposed it, and he agreed, and
that's why we're doing it.

Speaker 7 (01:46:21):
Thanks, But it's a good question that Connor. I'm sorry, Jim,
I didn't mean to.

Speaker 17 (01:46:27):
So that's it, Connor, And you know, I've asked Billy
about this. I'm not sure what the future would hold
for it, but obviously if thunder Rosa wins the title,
there could be a lot more and thunder Rosa and
Shidah is going to be one of the great matches
on the card. I think thunder Rosa, her first match
on Dynamite was a hit last night and I'm really

(01:46:51):
excited for the match, and so Billy and I have
got a good relationship. If thunder Rosa wins the title,
you could see obviously a lot more stuff between us.
But I don't have any plans to use anybody else
from the NWA, although some of our star wrestlers have
been there, you know, with Eddie.

Speaker 7 (01:47:09):
Kingston and Ricky Starks and Colet Cabana.

Speaker 17 (01:47:11):
So it's a good it's a good question, but besides
thunder Rosa, we're not really talking about using anybody else
from there. But again, thunder Ro's by you know the weekend,
could be our champion and it's.

Speaker 7 (01:47:22):
Quite possible, so I would stay tuned on that. Thanks Tony.

Speaker 15 (01:47:28):
And thanks Connor.

Speaker 7 (01:47:30):
We asked.

Speaker 15 (01:47:31):
We invited everyone to submit questions also online, and we
have a number of them. Tony like to read one
now to you from Darren Paltrowitz a freelancer, and his
question is unlike other wrestling companies, AW has managed to
keep people surprised, where most of the surprise appearances have
been kept secret even when pre taped. There's a lot

(01:47:52):
of work go into that. Or is it that people
don't get hired unless they really know, really show trustworthiness.

Speaker 17 (01:48:01):
I think it's a bit of both. We work really
hard at it. We keep a small circle. We're a
small company. It's a family business, a small company, and
we're startup and we've grown so quickly worldwide. But frankly,
even though we're the second biggest wrestling company in the world,
we're not the biggest machine.

Speaker 7 (01:48:22):
We're not the biggest. There's not so many people.

Speaker 17 (01:48:27):
That just spoiled surprise because I think the more people
that are in on it, the more likely it is.

Speaker 7 (01:48:32):
And we're really benefit that.

Speaker 17 (01:48:34):
We got a lot of great, trustworthy people in our
front office.

Speaker 7 (01:48:37):
And I keep things very close to the best.

Speaker 17 (01:48:40):
Frankly, but the people I do talk too, I really
trust and the people we bring in have been really trustworthy,
so I think it's been a really positive thing for us.
And we've tried to keep these surprises a surprise, and frankly,
we have a lot more surprises ahead for you in
the coming weeks, and I'm excited about things things that

(01:49:00):
are coming.

Speaker 7 (01:49:01):
So I really.

Speaker 17 (01:49:02):
Respect the job our team have done and the rare
times things have come out.

Speaker 7 (01:49:08):
I don't think they were from people in our core organization.
It's funny, Chris.

Speaker 17 (01:49:13):
I think at one point alluded Jericho alluded to somebody
he thought mentioned something off a tape show, and I
think he was right, and I don't think that was
a person that works here. But generally, when we've tried
to keep surprises, we've kept him in the family, and
we have a great family here.

Speaker 15 (01:49:31):
Fantastic Thanks thanks for that, Darren.

Speaker 21 (01:49:40):
Do you remember when Hulk Hogan shot the world and
formed the New World Order or when Stone Cold Steve
Austin passed down on the Sharpshooter to break the hit
man heard. I'm Torch contributor Frank petty Any and I've
reviewed these shows and many more for my exclusive VIP podcast,
Pro Wrestling Than and now, together with a rotat ding
CHAIRFF co hosts, we go back ten, twenty, even thirty years,

(01:50:04):
review pay per views from top to bottom, talk about
where the wrestlers were at the time, and compare what
took place then to what is taking place now. You
get exclusive access to these and other podcasts as part
of your PW Torch VIP membership, which is compatible with
the Apple Podcasts app. Visit pwtorch dot com slash go
vip for details and sign up.

Speaker 7 (01:50:25):
For We're now open.

Speaker 15 (01:50:37):
The lines back up and go to Nick Hausman from
Wrestling Nick, Nicky.

Speaker 22 (01:50:42):
I am here, Nick, Hi, Tony, thank you so much
for taking the time today, Urnick.

Speaker 7 (01:50:47):
How's the weather in Chicago?

Speaker 17 (01:50:49):
Sorry for asking that and wasting everyone's time. I'll add
that time back on the end like a football match.

Speaker 22 (01:50:55):
I went down to North Pond yesterday and it was
a beautiful eighty two degrees. I watched the hurtles and
the ducks and it was really it was beautiful. It
could have been there, buddy, it was wonderful.

Speaker 7 (01:51:04):
I it's been a while.

Speaker 17 (01:51:05):
I haven't been home up there in a long time,
since Revolution, since Revolution.

Speaker 22 (01:51:10):
Come on back, we'll go to a hair salon and
a bar.

Speaker 7 (01:51:12):
It'll be wonderful.

Speaker 22 (01:51:15):
What's up, Nick, So Tony, my question is pretty straightforward.
I know you love when you get asked about free agents.
It's like your favorite thing. But there's a big one
out there right now, Brock Lesnar. Have you talked to Brock?
Do you have interest in Brock? What do you say
to all the speculation that he could possibly find.

Speaker 17 (01:51:35):
His way into AW I can't comment on that at
the time, Nick, but I've enjoyed Brock's work for many years.

Speaker 7 (01:51:46):
He's a great fighter and a great wrestler.

Speaker 17 (01:51:50):
I don't think people talking up about what a great
worker Brock Lesner is and and is one of the
great working big men I've ever seen, one of the.

Speaker 7 (01:51:58):
Great athletes in the history of the wrestling business. And
I have so much respect for him. But yeah, I
couldn't comment on that, Nick, but I appreciate you asking.
Thanks Nick.

Speaker 15 (01:52:10):
Another question came in online, Tony for you from John
Corgan from the Wrestling Estate.

Speaker 7 (01:52:16):
With all the hides and loads of a w's.

Speaker 15 (01:52:18):
Tenures so far, what has been the biggest lesson you've
learned as the head of a pro wrestling company.

Speaker 7 (01:52:25):
It's a great question last night is a really good example.

Speaker 17 (01:52:28):
Honestly, there are times where the red light goes on
and it's seven fifty nine fifty nine, and at eight
o'clock the show clicks on, and you should have realized
something sooner, but literally it doesn't.

Speaker 7 (01:52:43):
Occur to you until you're there in the chair. And
that was me last night.

Speaker 17 (01:52:47):
And there's times where it's going to be like this,
And frankly, like I know, last night there was there
was a lot of great wrestling in the first hour,
and I put a lot of responsibility on thunder Rose
and Serena to have the strong wrestling match in the
second hour, and I thought they nailed it, and they
were put in a showcase position in the semi final

(01:53:08):
and they nailed it. But I kind of knew we
were putting a lot on them, and thankfully they hit
a home run for us. But in the first hour,
like I said, in Kansas City, in the first hour
last night, in the go home shows, my philosophy has
been put a lot of wrestling there, put a lot
of story stuff in the second half. Now in Kansas City,
some of the story stuff you got in the second

(01:53:29):
half the way and with Jericho and Moxley with you
know this big crowd in Kansas City, they loved it.
You've got the Orange Cassidys coming out and.

Speaker 7 (01:53:39):
Challenging pack in the show. Making that match is a
lot of fun stuff.

Speaker 17 (01:53:44):
Last night, Frankly, I understood that, like, if people want
to see a lot of wrestling in the show.

Speaker 7 (01:53:51):
Forty eight weeks a year, that's.

Speaker 17 (01:53:53):
All I think about is wrestling, wrestling, wrestling four times
a year. When we have these huge, huge pay per
view cards, day that week become the priority. The go
home shows. I treat them differently, the highs and lows
and the lessons I've learned.

Speaker 7 (01:54:06):
Every week I learned a new lesson.

Speaker 17 (01:54:08):
The pandemic has been lesson after lesson after lesson.

Speaker 7 (01:54:12):
I try to learn things and not do them again.

Speaker 17 (01:54:14):
And if I make a mistake twice, then I'm definitely
trying not to make it three times.

Speaker 7 (01:54:19):
The highs and.

Speaker 17 (01:54:20):
Lows, it's truly the same thing. It's just like learning
and trying to put together good shows. I have a
feeling that this weekend is going to be one of.

Speaker 7 (01:54:27):
The great highs.

Speaker 17 (01:54:28):
I look back at Revolution as probably a high point
for us, and then I just think, like that day
was a perfect day for me. I had met with
a lot of people. I'd been with Orange Cassidy and
Pack talking, you know, separately and very late, talking about
things that I wanted to see tomorrow. And I'd been

(01:54:49):
with John Moxley and christ Jericho very very late, separately
talking about things that were going to happen with them,
and I ended up getting very little sleep. We played
early in the morning Fulham one. When I say Weave,
I mean Fulham. Fulham had this match. I didn't get
a lot of sleep, and then went over straight to

(01:55:11):
the arena and we had Revolution and to me, it's
the best thing we've ever done.

Speaker 7 (01:55:15):
It was just the perfect day.

Speaker 17 (01:55:16):
I would call it the ultimate high, but it was
also the culmination of learning a lot of lessons Since then, the.

Speaker 7 (01:55:22):
Wrestling business has changed dramatically.

Speaker 17 (01:55:25):
Last year we were the number one company and attendance
per show in the world of wrestling, and this year
it's not really about trying to put fans into arenas.

Speaker 7 (01:55:35):
The philosophy the business has changed.

Speaker 17 (01:55:37):
Completely in the last six months, and I feel like
we've tried to roll with the punches.

Speaker 7 (01:55:42):
This weekend is going to be one of the highs
This weekend. I can't tell you how excited I am
for Saturday.

Speaker 17 (01:55:49):
I held back in the second hour last night too much,
maybe because I wanted you to really anticipate the wrestling
on this show, because the main card on Saturday, Bell
Dee Bell is going to be the best wrestling you've
seen since the pandemic. Furthermore, I hate that it's come

(01:56:11):
to this. I hate that this is what we have
to do. But I've used this analogy privately and publicly,
and I'm sorry to give such a long winded answer,
but highs and lows. There's a lot of answers to
highs and lows and a lot of things I can
talk about.

Speaker 7 (01:56:22):
And I'll say this, like the pandemic has been the
best example of this.

Speaker 17 (01:56:28):
There have been such highs and lows in this pandemic
trying to do great things. To come back and do
double or nothing and do that, I thought double or
nothing was like the bastion of ingenuity. To be able
to sit back and it's like, Okay, you know, with
what we have, how can we do a great pay
per view? I thought, And I'm sorry, I'll just be honest.
We were both operating during the pandemic. I tested everybody

(01:56:49):
coming in. This might be the pull out quote of
the press conference, but I'm going to say it. I
thought Double or Nothing kicked the crap out of WrestleMania.
It was a much better pay per view. We were
both operating under circumstances. I think ours we were fortunate
it was a little bit later in the pandemic and
we had implemented testing and we're doing testing at that time.
But when we did Double or Nothing, we were still

(01:57:11):
the only ones doing testing, So it wasn't.

Speaker 7 (01:57:13):
Like it, you know, we were we were a good.

Speaker 17 (01:57:16):
Testing plan at that point, Okay, And what we came
out with and did at that point, and to set
up a bubble and do that pay per view, I
was so proud of it. We've come a long way
since Double or Nothing. If you were just you know,
if if you want to see a show with wrestling
fans and a packed arena, I can't give that to
you right now.

Speaker 7 (01:57:36):
But what I can't give you, and I've talked a lot.

Speaker 17 (01:57:39):
About in the last week or two, has been a
drive in movie theater. I know everybody wants to go
back to the movies and go me at least I do.
I used to go to the movies all the time
since I was a kid, and and you know, it's
one of my releases, and I hadn't obviously been able
to go.

Speaker 7 (01:57:56):
To the cinema in a really long time.

Speaker 17 (01:57:58):
But the drive in movie is a way to go
with your friends and family and feel safe and do
the same thing you used to do before, which is
go see a new movie together and you know, in
a kind of a captive experience where everyone's not going
to be in their phones and paying attention to the
movie on the big screen.

Speaker 7 (01:58:18):
And I can't offer you this cinema, but I.

Speaker 17 (01:58:21):
Can't offer you the drive in movie. And that's how
I feel about what we're doing with the live events.
And it's one of the great highs for me, and
to see the live crowd. Chris Jericho described it as
one of the great highs of his thirty year storybook
career last week, having that crowd back.

Speaker 7 (01:58:37):
We're gonna go, We're gonna We're gonna go.

Speaker 17 (01:58:41):
We've got a lot of unallocated space we didn't use,
but we didn't want to stretch the security personnel, the people,
the staff at Daily's Place, and the aw team. They
have done such an amazing job on this, and we're
going to go a little bit closer to fifteen percent
for all Out.

Speaker 7 (01:58:58):
And again I compare it to the drive in movie theater.

Speaker 17 (01:59:00):
I think this is ninety nine over ninety nine percent
safer than the experience of packing people into an arena.
I think this is the only way to do Why
the event wrestling shows right now is outdoor, socially distanced
seating pods, fans and protective masks and having people around.

(01:59:23):
Not to be a jerk about it, but just to
remind people, hey, please don't get out of your pod
and go hang out with the people in the other pods,
and please keep your mask on when you're not sipping
your drink or eating your pretzel or you know, so
had We've had that and this weekend will be I
believe one of the all time highs in the company

(01:59:44):
when you look at the card, which you know, I
think now we can hopefully spend more time talking about
and rather than me giving you this long winded answer,
I just I'm really excited for it. I think Saturday
all Out it's gonna be a lot different than All
Out last year. But I wouldn't have it any other
way for the situation we're in the people I'm with. Please,

(02:00:07):
if you ever like an AW show, check out All
Out this weekend because I think it will be some
of our strongest work.

Speaker 7 (02:00:13):
Thanks for putting up with that. Sorry, all good.

Speaker 1 (02:00:26):
You don't have to wait for the way Keller Prog
Wrestling post show to find out what I thought of
Monday Night Raw and SmackDown. Each week, you can check
out my reports that are updated live throughout Raw and
SmackDown at pwtorch dot com.

Speaker 2 (02:00:38):
My written report.

Speaker 1 (02:00:39):
Will tell you what's happening in detail in case you
missed the show, and it will also analyze key segments
and give my random thoughts quips on what I am
watching as it airs. So check it out every Monday
night and Tuesday night at pewtorch dot com. That also
applies to WWE pay per views. I cover those live
at pw torch dot com with a detailed written report

(02:00:59):
with our ratings, and of course you can find other
TV reports from other contributors to pw torch such as
nxt roh, Impact Wrestling and more. Check it out pw
torch dot com your first stop for TV and pay
per view written reports.

Speaker 15 (02:01:27):
Let's go back to the livelines. John Auba from Spectrum Sports.
John here, are you there?

Speaker 23 (02:01:34):
Yes, I am Tony. Thank you for taking the call.
I appreciate your time. Piggybacking off of what you just
said about the COVID protocols, at what point did you
guys decide that you were going to let fans in
and what was the process like in determining what the
health protocols would look like.

Speaker 17 (02:01:52):
Came up with this idea of I wanted to do
anything I could to start looking at a saved way
eventually when we've got you know. First of all, first
and foremost was a testing plan. We shut the company
down in April until we could come up with a
way to make it safe to do shows.

Speaker 7 (02:02:10):
For the wrestlers again.

Speaker 17 (02:02:11):
So we did that, and my number one priority A
and b our wrestler health and safety and fan health
and safety. So we came in and it's like, first
to do a wrestling show, we need to make sure
we can do this and keep the wrestlers and the
crew and staff safe. So we implemented a testing plan
and we returned at the beginning of May with a

(02:02:32):
live show and have been doing this with you know,
testing and have had great results, which really shows that
the people have been doing the right things and social
distancing because we've had I think, you know, people have
come in and we've had very very few positive cases
and we do rigorous testing. Once we got that implemented,

(02:02:53):
I started to look at how we could utilize our
outdoor space to safely have some kind of live event experience.
And we've we've been putting tested people you know, fans
at ringside, but they weren't really fans, they were wrestlers
and crew and staff. But it added a sense of normalcy.
You've probably heard me say it by now that I
got this idea from watching the Tonight show and they

(02:03:14):
had the crew in the studio and I, you know,
going back during the first week of the pandemic, looking
at how shows were handling it. That was the most
creative thing I'd seen.

Speaker 7 (02:03:25):
And then how.

Speaker 17 (02:03:27):
Can I kind of take that and replicate it? How
can we do this well? Daily place has three levels
and is a really big outdoor space. Eventually we had
had you know, the staff kind of spaced out in
the bowl and I started to wonder about the top
two bowls. There's not a bad seat in the house.
As far as the stuff we've allocated, I mean we've

(02:03:48):
you know, there's great views and it's a.

Speaker 7 (02:03:52):
You know, my first thought was is it for egress?

Speaker 17 (02:03:56):
For getting people into the building, temperature testing, all the
things you need to do, The things I never thought
of that our marketing staff put together, like the pickup
of the you know, when people have ordered items online
for you know, shop aw they're able to pick them up,

(02:04:17):
which I never even thought of how we'd get through that,
or the concession lines and the creative thought and ingenuity
that our team put into it. We've spent the last
several months working on it, and then we did kind
of a soft open. We invited some staff and some
sponsors and local friends to come and sit up there
and you know.

Speaker 7 (02:04:38):
Did temperature tests. All the stuff we're.

Speaker 17 (02:04:40):
Doing now for them is kind of a soft open.
We slowly started to hire more security personnel than a
week before we went live with fans. We had done
again kind of a soft open. We brought in some
security and I think you saw some of those videos
maybe some of you guys had posted online of what
we were doing before we actually started selling tickets, just

(02:05:02):
to kind of get ready to train the security personnel
to remind people to stand their.

Speaker 7 (02:05:07):
Pods and.

Speaker 17 (02:05:08):
Keep their masks on or you know, not too many
people going into the bathrooms at once.

Speaker 7 (02:05:13):
And it's it's.

Speaker 17 (02:05:15):
It's been a process that, you know, it felt slow
because everyone was anxious to have the fans back, but
I think it was right to be cautious and and
now we got a process that has worked really well,
we think, and hopefully for all out it'll be it'll
pay off with this with this great crowd of you know,
seven hundred people, seven hundred and fifty people. However it

(02:05:38):
comes out exactly, it's going to be the hottest, biggest
crowd for wrestling in a long time, and the most
important thing is it'll be a safe crowd.

Speaker 7 (02:05:46):
Thanks for asking about it.

Speaker 15 (02:05:48):
Right, Thanks, Jean. I'd like to call on Jim Barcelona
from the Miami Miami Herald.

Speaker 13 (02:05:56):
Hey, Jim, okay, all I could hope, yeah, now you
can hear me. Great, Thank you so much. You know,
I'm curious because you mentioned thunder Rosa and Serena Deep.
I'm wondering about Serena Deep and and your women's division
in general, and might we be seeing more Serena on
the show and just yet a great women's Tag Team
Cup tournament that was just amazing. And what are your

(02:06:18):
thoughts of the division these days, and also about Serena
and thank you.

Speaker 17 (02:06:22):
Oh sure, thank you. What we've been bringing in more talent.
Some of our best wrestlers in the division, including our
first champion Rio, have been trapped outside the US because
of the pandemic. Yukatakazaki was also one of our top wrestlers,
and so not having them, we've been looking to bring

(02:06:42):
in more talent and Thunderosa challenging Shida for the championship
and now Thunderosa being positioned here with a chance to
be a top wrestler and maybe even the face of
our women's division. And then you've got serenadeb who many
of us are familiar with from her work in the
Straight Edge Society for WWE, and I hadn't seen Serena

(02:07:06):
work in a long time. I heard she had been
looking really good in the ring, and she came in
and I thought she was really impressive, and she got
frankly rave reviews and I'd love to have Serena back
and again thunder rows o Versushida were very excited about
on Saturday at All Out, and that's why we've been

(02:07:26):
looking to expand and bring more talent in the women's
tag Team Cup. We brought in more talent Tay Kanti
and Anna j. We're a good team and now the
Dark Order has been recruiting Ta Kanti and we think
that could be interesting to see where that goes. So yeah,
because of the pandemic, we thought we had some very

(02:07:47):
good women wrestlers that were a really important part of
the division, and with them not being here, hopefully they'll
be back soon. And that's why we've looked to bring
in some new talent who I think have really done well,
especially in recent weeks.

Speaker 15 (02:08:02):
Thanks for joining us, Jim.

Speaker 17 (02:08:04):
Next up is Amy, Jim if I can for both.

Speaker 7 (02:08:08):
Jim's just real quick, Jim, if it's okay. You know again,
I am really proud of them.

Speaker 17 (02:08:13):
I'm proud of thunder Rods and Serena because we put
them in a big position in the semi to be
the strongest wrestling match in the second hour and they
did it and they hit a home run.

Speaker 7 (02:08:22):
Where the other.

Speaker 17 (02:08:22):
Matches are more and you know, we're setting up stories
for all out because All Out, like I said, even
you know, four weeks the year I have these quarterly
pay per views will really, frankly, you know, beat the
audience over the head and over this, especially in the
second hour with all Out. But it's for a reason,
because I want you to know that this Saturday, we're
going to do something really really special. I mean, I'm

(02:08:44):
so excited about it. But I'm really proud of thunder
Rows in Serena because they hit a home run in
the second hour. So thanks for asking about that, because
I thought they were they were great.

Speaker 15 (02:08:53):
Okay, Amy made for me, call on you, Amy and
Emmy year Are you there?

Speaker 4 (02:08:59):
Yes? Hi, can you hear me?

Speaker 2 (02:09:01):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (02:09:02):
Solly.

Speaker 19 (02:09:03):
So this question is for Tony. What's it like being
a wrestling fan who's now in charge of one of
the biggest wrestling companies in the world. Are you still
a fan? Has it changed your relationship with wrestling at
all as you've worked through the last year and a half.

Speaker 17 (02:09:20):
Yes, it's changed my relationship with wrestling mentally.

Speaker 7 (02:09:24):
It's one of my favorite things in the world.

Speaker 17 (02:09:26):
I've learned so much on the job, and that's what
I was talking about last night. You sit down in
the chair, and you realize things sometimes that you'd pace
things differently or do things differently. I've been through some
of the most hectic situations of my life, but it's
one of my favorite things, and I am so happy
to be in it. I have surreal moments all the time,

(02:09:47):
Like anytime I do a podcast or anything with Tony Shavanni,
you know, I look over and I think it's ridiculous that,
you know, Tony Shavanni, who I've been listening to my
whole life, that i worked this closely with, you know,
whether it's producing him on the show or on this
podcast or in post production, Tony does all this great work.

(02:10:09):
It makes me so happy when I think back to
Tony Shavani telling the story. You know, I've listened to
his podcast before there was AW, before I knew I
was starting AW, and he would talk about how, you know,
he had regrets in the wrestling business, and one of
his great regrets was leaving the WWF and he had

(02:10:30):
this job that was a pretty good job, and he
left it to go back to WCW. He thought he
made a mistake, and there were parts of the job
he really liked. He really liked working at Coliseum video.
He liked being a producer and he liked doing the announcing,
but I don't think I think the most organized he'd
ever seen the operation in terms of production, in terms

(02:10:51):
of producing the announcers, and what they were looking for
was probably the WWF, and I don't think they had
as much structure in WCW.

Speaker 7 (02:10:58):
I hope in I.

Speaker 17 (02:11:00):
Had to be somewhere in between where we're not overproducing
the announcers.

Speaker 7 (02:11:04):
But I do feel.

Speaker 17 (02:11:05):
Like I've got a really good working beat with all
the announcers.

Speaker 7 (02:11:08):
And I bring Tony up specifically.

Speaker 17 (02:11:09):
Because throughout the year he's been with us, and even
through the you know, the darkest days of the pandemic,
through the shutdown when we ran a bunch of tape
shows in April and got it all together in a marathon.
Tony was such a workhorse in post production, and so
I bring him up, not exclusively. I have these experiences
all the time as I sit in Gorilla, you know,

(02:11:30):
with Dean Malenko and Jerry Lynn working through the matches.
But I also don't really have any time to think
about it because it's so hectic and crazy.

Speaker 7 (02:11:37):
But every day, you know, I share you know, an.

Speaker 17 (02:11:41):
Office in a meeting space with you know, Chris Jericho
or Matt Hardy.

Speaker 7 (02:11:46):
It's pretty surreal.

Speaker 17 (02:11:47):
And to think that Chris Jericho and Matt Hardy are
going to be in very very prominent matches on All
Out makes me really smile. But I also can't really
be or think of it that way, and so yeah,
it's it's it's crazy. I'm really really excited for this
weekend and and things like All Out and shows like

(02:12:09):
All Out are what get me going. I'm also really
excited for this this this whole week because I know
that the Dynamite after All.

Speaker 7 (02:12:17):
Out is going to be really really good.

Speaker 17 (02:12:19):
I can't tell you guys everything about it yet because
you're gonna have.

Speaker 7 (02:12:23):
To see the pay per view and see what.

Speaker 17 (02:12:25):
Happens on the pay per view and uh, and you
know there'll be some fun surprises.

Speaker 7 (02:12:30):
But this whole next week I'm really really excited about.
And uh as a.

Speaker 17 (02:12:34):
That's as a fan and also as what I do professionally,
that this is one of my great love is my
great love.

Speaker 7 (02:12:43):
Thanks for asking.

Speaker 13 (02:12:51):
I'm Chris Maitland and I'm Justin McClelland we host Wrestling Coast.

Speaker 24 (02:12:54):
To Coast where we scour the wrestling scene to find
the best wrestling from the smallest places.

Speaker 9 (02:12:59):
There are thousands of matches happening every week, so Wrestling
coast to coast is here to discover the men and
women who could be big time stars in a few years.

Speaker 24 (02:13:07):
There are plenty of podcasts to voters to w W
and AW, but what's happening in the armories and gymnasium's
local wrestling hotspots around the country.

Speaker 9 (02:13:14):
We can't wait to help you find the true hidden
gems of the wrestling world. Plus, you can hear Chris
complain about bad referees.

Speaker 24 (02:13:20):
And justin bemoaning dogpile fins.

Speaker 9 (02:13:22):
Don't forget my feudal search to see a blue Thunderbomb
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Speaker 7 (02:13:26):
How can I like?

Speaker 24 (02:13:27):
The name says we cover the hottest independent promotions from
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Speaker 9 (02:13:35):
Actually, Chris, I think we stick pretty much to wrestling.

Speaker 24 (02:13:38):
No, I mean Beyond Wrestling out of Wooster, Oh right.
Our show's part of the PW Torch Daily cast lineup
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dot com.

Speaker 15 (02:14:09):
Tony, I'm going to ask a question on behalf of
Alex McCarthy from Talk Sport, who wrote in Alex's question
is how is picking up new talent like FTR affected
the long term booking they've often or you've often spoken about.
Have you enjoyed the challenge of pivoting?

Speaker 7 (02:14:29):
I have. I have. It's been crazy. Like when as
we've added people, you do have to change plans. And
at the same time, there's some people that come in
and they make it very easy for you to change
your plans.

Speaker 17 (02:14:42):
And when you get top talent like FTR, who are
one of the best teams, if not the best tag
team in the world, they fit into your plans like
you know.

Speaker 7 (02:14:51):
It's like it's like a glove.

Speaker 17 (02:14:54):
When you want to have the best tag team division
in the world, you can't go wrong. When you sign
arguably the best tag team in the.

Speaker 7 (02:14:59):
World and pair, you know, pair them in.

Speaker 17 (02:15:01):
A division with a lot of the other candidates for
the best tag team in the world, including Kenny and Hangman,
including the Young Bucks. I thought Kenny and Hangman and
the Umbucks set the standard for American tag team wrestling
this year and pretty you know, going back pretty pretty
long time with their matchup Revolution and ft R versus

(02:15:24):
Kenny and Hangman.

Speaker 7 (02:15:25):
Now they have to try and.

Speaker 17 (02:15:27):
Set that reach that bar, and I'm excited to see
if they can live up to it.

Speaker 7 (02:15:31):
But I also think there's a great chance they can.

Speaker 17 (02:15:33):
And uh, as far as bringing other new people and pivoting,
I really appreciate you asking this because I.

Speaker 7 (02:15:40):
Never thought we'd be in this situation.

Speaker 17 (02:15:42):
It kind of a dream situation in terms of being
able to like hone your craft, being in Atlanta with
you know, less than thirty percent of your roster and
trying to put together shows and having them make sense
and not knowing whether you're doing.

Speaker 7 (02:16:00):
Four shows or five shows or six or.

Speaker 17 (02:16:02):
How long it's going to be. That you need to
stretch these tapes and all the things you need to
think of to get through that.

Speaker 7 (02:16:09):
That we got through the month of April is like,
you know.

Speaker 17 (02:16:12):
If ever you can pivot around and make it work
and piece together shows and then come out stronger and
do really well in May, and and I was so
worried about double or nothing and how we were going
to do double or nothing and make it a great show,
and we did so.

Speaker 7 (02:16:30):
If Ever, there have been you.

Speaker 17 (02:16:32):
Know, questions about how to get people in and pivot
your ideas when you sign new people and or people
or the flip side. Frankly, man, is it's that much
harder when people aren't there, you know, going to fight
for the fallen. When we had some changes to Fighter Fest,
it wasn't exactly as we were originally thinking of doing it,

(02:16:54):
but it worked out incredibly well, I thought, under the circumstances,
and all the shows did really good numbers.

Speaker 7 (02:17:02):
So yeah, it's it's fun. But it's a lot easier
when you have to.

Speaker 17 (02:17:06):
Pivot because you sign great new talent like SDR as
opposed to when you have to pivot because you know
people aren't available and in the pandemic. So I think
we've had unique experiences that have helped us helped us
do it. There's an expression I saw somebody use on Twitter.

Speaker 7 (02:17:26):
This is very anecdotal, and I hope, you know, I
hope it's it's okay. Somebody used the expression the COVID push.

Speaker 17 (02:17:34):
I was like, man, that is a harsh expression, but
it is frankly a thing that in the pandemic, when
based on availability, there are people that have really stepped
up and that that's what they got, and there are
people that have made the most of it, not just
in w not just in AW also in WWE and

(02:17:54):
any places that have been wrestling. Now New Japan's back
up and you push the people you got, and we're
seeing people trying to be creative and do the best
they can with what they got. I thought Double or
Nothing with a hand we were dealt and what we
had to build it up, and then coming back May sixth,
and then we'd already kind of put in the first
layer of the house, some foundation setting up Cody versus

(02:18:17):
Lance Archer and the TNT tournament, and then implementing other
stories and reintegrating some of the people you'd only seen
on video packages or promos for like the past five
or six weeks. That was a challenge going into Double
or Nothing.

Speaker 7 (02:18:33):
So anyway, for all out.

Speaker 17 (02:18:34):
Point being now that we have this great roster, I
thought Double Nothing was hard to get to this.

Speaker 7 (02:18:42):
Card.

Speaker 17 (02:18:42):
To me, when you look at the matches on this.
I think having live fans, this has a chance to
be a really really special pay per view and it
wasn't as daunting a task to get this card together
in a lot of ways.

Speaker 15 (02:18:59):
All Right, thanks Tony, I'm gonna go back to the
lines now. Colin Sean Radigan.

Speaker 4 (02:19:05):
From PW Torch there. Yeah, Hi, Tony.

Speaker 7 (02:19:09):
How are you. I'm really I'm great, Sean. It's great
to hear from you.

Speaker 4 (02:19:14):
It's good to talk to you.

Speaker 25 (02:19:16):
Had a quick question, what is your thought process behind
putting together the card for All Out this year? I
know earlier you talked a little bit about putting on
a cinematic experience for fans because of the pandemic and
what's going on for people watching at home, but a
lot of stipulation matches up and down the card. Did
the pandemic influence any of that thought process?

Speaker 7 (02:19:41):
You know there are stipulation is on the buy in.

Speaker 17 (02:19:43):
That's one of the reasons why I think having to
be cinematic, because there's not really the show is not
going to be cinematic. I think from the live event
experience this is going to be It's not going to
be a packed or arena full of fans but there's
fans here safely distance, and it's going to be a
live show with fans, and putting this cinematic match on
the pre show because that's the you know, there are

(02:20:05):
reasons we needed to do it, uh and it was
the tone and the situation. And Frankly, this is BRIT's
BRIT's leg injuries not like a worked injury. It's not
like Mjf's neck like. Britz had a broken leg and
a broken nose. Uh so with a fracture in her
leg and her nose injury, like, we gave her some
time off and this is the first time Brit come

(02:20:28):
back and done anything physical.

Speaker 7 (02:20:29):
Last night when she attacked school was.

Speaker 17 (02:20:31):
The first time BRIT's done a physical wrestling activity in
a long time. And I'm really excited for this match.
But there's a lot of reasons why. I think it's
it's the right reason to do it cinematic, frankly, and
and for the people asking, I think that's why.

Speaker 7 (02:20:46):
For the wrestling on the show, there are some stipulation matches,
but there's also just a.

Speaker 17 (02:20:50):
Lot of great wrestling, and I think when you look
at Bell Dee Bell, even though there's there's going to
be obviously Momosa Mayhem.

Speaker 7 (02:20:57):
I think will be a great match.

Speaker 17 (02:20:59):
And Chris and Orange Cat he have had a few
great straight wrestling matches on television now and really great
examples of chain wrestling and the art of the comeback.
This will be the most fans they've worked in front of,
and this is going to be a great match.

Speaker 7 (02:21:16):
Malady and Sammy.

Speaker 17 (02:21:17):
Is the broken Rules effectively, it's the last man standing
loser leaves town match that applies to Matt, and Matt
and Sammy have had this great feud. There's a great
story that Sammy wants Matt out of AW. Really, since
Matt's been in AW, he's mostly tormented Sammy and vice versa.

Speaker 7 (02:21:39):
So Sammy's an original.

Speaker 17 (02:21:41):
He is the originally wrestled in the first ever singles
match in AW. He wrestled the first ever match on Dynamite,
and you know he's wrestling now in our first last
man standing match. He was in our first tables match.
And this is going to be a lot of fun.
And if you look at the rest of the card,
you've got a casino battle Royale, which also is involving

(02:22:04):
a lot of people in the card. But I think
will be frankly a great example of how far the
rosters come since our first show, because I think this
Casino Battle Royale, now that we have this depth of
a roster, will see a lot more talent in it,
and you'll see.

Speaker 7 (02:22:19):
That the rosters come a long, long, long way. Who's
in this one.

Speaker 17 (02:22:22):
Versus where we were with the first Casino Battle Royale.
We had some great people in it with MJF and Hangman.
We established some new talent like Orange Cassidy in it,
but there were a lot of people in it who
probably were not at the level of wrestling that are
going to be in this one.

Speaker 7 (02:22:40):
And then I'd like to just go.

Speaker 17 (02:22:42):
Down in the rest of the card because I feel,
like Sean, there's so much good Bell de Bell wrestling
and for a person who just wants to see great
wrestling matches, when you look at Young Bucks versus drassk Express,
who are two of our top teams, and they're both
in the top five, and I think we really believe
in the tag team wrestling and it's like a title
element and UFC or boxing because they're both highly ranked

(02:23:04):
and the winner of the match will be better positioned
for a championship match with the winner of Hangman and
Kenny versus FTR. Another great wrestling match that we think
will have a chance to steal the show, Chieta versus
ponder Rosa. I'm very very excited for this as a
Bell de Bell wrestling match again. And then of course

(02:23:25):
Moxley versus MJF will be I think a really really
strong wrestling match on this card, and I think, you know,
when you look at that, that has a chance to
really be a great chance to establish whether it's going
to be John's run of dominance or whether it's going
to be that Max is the future of this company.

Speaker 7 (02:23:47):
And frankly, I think it's both.

Speaker 17 (02:23:50):
I think John did such a great run as a champion,
but I also think Max is arguably the future of
this company. And I'm really excited for everybody to see
what we're going to do here and how we're gonna
how this.

Speaker 7 (02:24:01):
Match is gonna go.

Speaker 17 (02:24:01):
I'm really excited for both of them because I think
as far as like a big fight feel, this has
it to me. I'm really excited for their match, and
I think I'm really excited to see, you know, how
people come out of this.

Speaker 7 (02:24:16):
With the show.

Speaker 17 (02:24:16):
There's also the eight man tag, and I'd be remiss
if I didn't say that. I thought how Brodie Lee
won the championship was a very very very strong moment
for us and got a big response and shocked a
lot of people the dark order again when it's like
like what I said with the Casino Battle Royale, I

(02:24:37):
think is an organization, is a group of heels. They've
come very far from where they were last year, and
Brodie Lee has a chance to be a great T
and T champion.

Speaker 7 (02:24:46):
I think the TNT Championship.

Speaker 17 (02:24:48):
Means more in our company than other titles outside of
the world title, in other wrestling companies, if that makes sense.
There's a reason there is a TNT champion. We have
this media relationship. It means so much to us. It's
our prime source of revenue, it's our prime source of
exposure other than these huge quarterly pay per views that
we build to like all out and Bodie Lee is

(02:25:10):
a great champ for us, and this, you know, this
match he's got with just a lot moving parts in
this situation that the Babyface group with Dustin and QT
it came out to support Cody uh and then a
couple of Cody's friends Scorpio Sky and Matt Cardona, who's
an outsider, you know, showing up. I think that has

(02:25:32):
a chance to be a great match too. And anytime
I can see Dustin Roods wrestling on pay.

Speaker 7 (02:25:37):
Per view, I'm always happy to see that.

Speaker 17 (02:25:40):
Since I was a small kid and Cole Cabana in
the Dark Order, it's been a great story. So I
think there's a lot of great wrestling on the show.
Nothing I'm more excited about than MJF versus Moxley for
the championship, But really all the championship matches and that
eight man Taga.

Speaker 7 (02:26:00):
Box versus Drastic Express, I.

Speaker 17 (02:26:01):
Think they're all strong wrestling matches without really the riots
on the stipulations you're talking about, Sean, although there are
a few matches on the card that have them.

Speaker 7 (02:26:12):
I think you'll see there's going to be a lot
of great wrestling.

Speaker 15 (02:26:14):
Man, all right, Thanks Tony, you get time for a
few more. I got tell.

Speaker 1 (02:26:22):
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Speaker 15 (02:27:06):
Next in the line here is Mike Johnson from p
W Insider.

Speaker 7 (02:27:11):
Mike Hey, Mike, Hey.

Speaker 4 (02:27:13):
How are you Tony? Good to talk to you, sir.

Speaker 26 (02:27:16):
You brought up, you brought up the relationship with TNT
and WarnerMedia. What's the status of the second ae W
series coming to tn T. Is it still going to
be envisioned as ae W Dark the way it was
mentioned a while back for Vin Riley And how has
the relationship between the two sides changed, if at all,
with all the shuffling within WarnerMedia.

Speaker 17 (02:27:37):
I tried to thanks thanks for asking, Mike. It's it's
great and I'm glad you asked. Uh, it's funny.

Speaker 7 (02:27:43):
Because I have I I speak to them a lot,
and and.

Speaker 17 (02:27:46):
Uh, they've actually had texts from from top executives at
Warner because we talked so much about promoting the show
and about ideas, they actually attected while I've been on
this call with you guys.

Speaker 7 (02:27:56):
Uh, And it's a great relationship.

Speaker 17 (02:27:59):
And like I said, it's the lifeblood of our company,
you know, our media partnership. And Kevin at the time
when he was saying Dark, that was not accurate. We
were not going to bring Dark as the third hour,
and and we had communicated that, but it was a miscommunication.

Speaker 7 (02:28:16):
I think Kevin misunderstood some of the materials.

Speaker 17 (02:28:19):
Dark was doing very very well, and I think is
doing very very well, and Dark has actually risen since
this conversation we had with Kevin, but that we would
do a totally different third hour and keep Dark on YouTube,
and that is still the plan, and that show will
be launched in the next year.

Speaker 7 (02:28:40):
I don't have an exact date.

Speaker 17 (02:28:41):
I can promise you it will be in the next year,
but I don't know exactly when. And there's a lot
of work that's going to go into it that still
needs to be done in terms of market testing. You know,
there's a lot a lot goes into launching a show,
and before it'll go on network television, we'll have to
do all that work. And I think, frankly, as far

(02:29:04):
as going in and doing that market research and putting
together a launch plan, the pandemic sidetractice on.

Speaker 7 (02:29:11):
That and it made it more difficult.

Speaker 17 (02:29:14):
And as far as people developing new shows and working
on them, a lot of shows.

Speaker 7 (02:29:19):
Have been slowed down.

Speaker 17 (02:29:20):
We've been really fortunate that aw Dynamite has been on
through the pandemic and done really really well and has
consistently been around the in and around the top ten shows.
And that was our goal and their goal for us.
And I don't know exactly when, but as things are
starting to hopefully get more and more normal, and as

(02:29:41):
hopefully as the country keeps trending in a better direction,
hopefully in terms of going back to work, we'll be
definitely watching the show soon. I don't know the exact
date though, man. And then as far as the relationship
to your question which you asked, Yeah, it's I'm very

(02:30:02):
fortunate that I had that I met Kevin, and I'm
glad you gave me a chance to say this and
that on the call, I can address it because without Kevin,
there would not be AW quite possibly. And uh I
And I'll say that because even when we got to
a point where we didn't have a deal and I
wasn't sure the show was going to be on TNT,

(02:30:23):
I had gotten far enough down the road where I
knew I was going to do this. It was a
crazy process. Sometimes I see people say and it's not
a bad thing, because it's like, it's a really important
part of our brand and it's a selling point for
what I'm doing this weekend. And this is fitting timing

(02:30:45):
that it's the two year anniversary of All In now,
but it's the one year anniversary of All Out.

Speaker 7 (02:30:50):
All In was a hugely important show for the wrestling business.

Speaker 17 (02:30:54):
I was going to start a wrestling company before All In.

Speaker 7 (02:30:58):
All If I've seen people say that there wouldn't be
a w without All In.

Speaker 17 (02:31:02):
There probably would be AW without All In, But I
don't know if it would have been the same success
it was or how it would have gone off. John
Moxley had one of the greatest quotes ever when he
described meeting me and how it went and how it
could have gone, and he was like, you know, I
didn't know him, and like, you.

Speaker 7 (02:31:21):
Know, uh, could he have totally screwed it up?

Speaker 17 (02:31:24):
Yes, And it was like that was like this, Uh,
it was like could have really gotten screwed up? But
it didn't, you know. For our relationship, Kevin was the
guy that for me, he opened a lot of doors.
When I went to all In, I wanted to see

(02:31:45):
how it went, but I knew we would be doing
a lot of our We'd be adding a lot and
doing a lot of things, and I knew the guys
had drawing power.

Speaker 7 (02:31:51):
And as far as the show, I wanted to see
a good show. But whether it was good or.

Speaker 17 (02:31:56):
Bad, there was gonna be aw And for Kevin, I
had gone to Kevin in April on effectively a whim,
like those moments like and it's just hopefully it inspires people,
because like the worst thing people can say to you
if you have a dream is no. And I know
I was in a unique position and the effectively like
born on third base really uh and uh.

Speaker 7 (02:32:20):
This was my cliche.

Speaker 27 (02:32:22):
I'm sorry if I it's a cliche being you know,
this expression, but it's how I feel. I'm very grateful
for the position I was in and then I was
able to, you know, effectively get home for us on
this by going to Kevin and making an aggressive move,
telling him I wanted to start a wrestling company and
that if he was going to be bidding on meteorites

(02:32:43):
for wrestling, he should talk to me.

Speaker 7 (02:32:45):
And I think.

Speaker 17 (02:32:46):
At first, even though he knew, you know, I had
credibility in the world of sports and we're friends, he
thought maybe this was completely crazy idea, but he humored it.

Speaker 7 (02:32:54):
But it wasn't like Kevin just then green Light did
the show.

Speaker 17 (02:32:57):
I spent that like almost a year, well actually over
a year by the time we really got there, but
almost the year before I even had any commitment from them.

Speaker 7 (02:33:07):
I mean, he put me in at the ground level
with all the marketing and.

Speaker 17 (02:33:10):
Media people, and then we got to a point where
I wasn't sure that the show was.

Speaker 7 (02:33:15):
Going to be on TNT.

Speaker 17 (02:33:17):
But I've gotten so far down the road before I
actually had to deal with them that I needed to
do this.

Speaker 7 (02:33:24):
I knew now that it was going to be a
viable business.

Speaker 17 (02:33:27):
By December, I had gotten so into the weeds on
this that there were a couple of different business models,
and I'd found people were interested in it. It wasn't
just you know, whether I signed with TNT or not.
I was going to have a chance to do this
and make it a viable business. And I'd already, you know,
talked to Chris and talk to people, and I knew

(02:33:47):
that I could do this. So, you know, for me,
going back all In is like a great, great achievement.
Wrestling it was great show, but to me like coming
in a year later with all Out to be in
the same building and to do to be where I
came to their show as their friend and as a fan,

(02:34:08):
and then to be there working together and putting the
show together under aw It felt really cool and it
felt like we'd come full circle. I was happy, and
I was proud of Cody and the young Bucks. And
also I just want to say, because Mike brought it.

Speaker 7 (02:34:25):
Up, I'm really grateful for Kevin.

Speaker 17 (02:34:27):
I don't think if Kevin, if I hadn't gone up
to Kevin, I never would have had.

Speaker 7 (02:34:32):
The guts to start this.

Speaker 17 (02:34:33):
Company, and the guys might have found another person to
work with and it could have been a totally different thing.
But I don't think anybody would have made the eighth figure,
you know, tens of millions of dollars commitment into starting
a business that we've made, and I don't know what
the returns would have been, but I think we've had

(02:34:54):
great returns. And I just don't think I'd be here
without Kevin Riley, and I don't think AW would be
here with that Kevin Ley or any of us. So
I'm really grateful to him. And you know, now I
think we've got this great relationship and we have a
chance to do something really really special. I never dreamed

(02:35:14):
of my wildest dreams, all the years that I wrote
Dynamite and notebooks and dreamed of starting a wrestling company,
that we would be on tn T Because in my
wildest dreams, I never we never, you know, it's the
wrestling would be.

Speaker 7 (02:35:29):
Back on TNT.

Speaker 17 (02:35:31):
It's like something out of a fantasy for me. And again,
like when I talked about how happy I am to
be at work with the people I work with, to
be on the channel I am, and to work with
these people, it's such an honor.

Speaker 7 (02:35:44):
Uh. And Warner Media is the dream partner for me.

Speaker 2 (02:35:47):
Uh.

Speaker 17 (02:35:47):
They've been a dream partnership and because of them, we
have a chance. You know, we did all out last
year and it was a big success. We have a
chance for this show to be a great success and
a bigger success because of the exposure they've given us
over the past year with Dynamite, and you know, to
our new new media bosses and the new team just

(02:36:08):
starting to get to know them, and they have a
vision and I really believe we fit into that vision.

Speaker 7 (02:36:15):
I believe that.

Speaker 17 (02:36:15):
Wrestling is some of the strongest streaming content in the world.
I believe there are a lot of people who consume wrestling,
and I believe that we are a really strong cable.

Speaker 7 (02:36:25):
Property and that's how we got That's how we got here.

Speaker 17 (02:36:28):
We've built Dynamite up into a top ten show consistently
on Wednesday nights.

Speaker 7 (02:36:35):
I am constantly.

Speaker 17 (02:36:36):
Thinking about it, retooling it, kicking myself, beating myself up
to try and make Dynamite better. And I really believe
that if we all put our heads together, that we
can make Dynamite the best wrestling show in the world.
If it's not already in your opinion, I think we're
working hard. But I do think that WarnerMedia. I can't

(02:36:57):
say enough about the relationship, and I hope that as
the company aw grows, and as we get more and
more established, we do more and more things together.

Speaker 7 (02:37:07):
You guys asked me about the FCW.

Speaker 17 (02:37:09):
Title earlier, and I said, there's things I want to
do differently with the FCW title, a different presentation. Thankfully,
nobody followed up and try to get me to elaborate
more details. But that's one example of different things we're
trying to do with WarnerMedia.

Speaker 7 (02:37:24):
And you'll see a lot more.

Speaker 17 (02:37:25):
Projects in addition to Dynamite, which our flagship show, and
you know Wednesday Night is our flagship product. You'll see
a lot more different kinds of shows in addition to
this third hour of wrestling, things that aren't necessarily your
classic wrestling show. But I also want Dynamite to feel
like your wrestling show.

Speaker 7 (02:37:46):
And if there's four times a year going into these pay.

Speaker 17 (02:37:48):
Per views where I don't put wrestling, wrestling, wrestling, wrestling on,
please know that the other forty eight weeks of a year,
it is the number one concern. And uh and and
then for frankly, I hear you guys on these go homes,
maybe maybe I should put more wrestling on the go
homes and and and not be so story driven in

(02:38:09):
the second hour. Uh, and and I the worst thing
I could do is not listen to what you guys
say and the fans say, because they're always right. That's
why over the over the holidays, I banged my head
and we all bang our heads against the walls so
much to come back so strong at the beginning of
the year to make sure twenty twenty was a great year.

Speaker 7 (02:38:28):
Uh. That's how I feel about every.

Speaker 17 (02:38:30):
Week now and UH with all out the car that's
in front of you, guys, I'm really proud of it.
I think from a bout a bell standpoint, you'll see
uh something that's going to make you guys smile this weekend.
I've been waiting for this for a long time. To
do dynamite in front of fans. The last couple of
weeks has been really special.

Speaker 7 (02:38:50):
Uh.

Speaker 17 (02:38:50):
And to open it up a little bit more and
have a few more fans, but be able to look
myself in the mirror and know that we're doing it
safely and we haven't uh risk anybody's safety, whether it's
the fans themselves or the crew and the wrestlers to
do it, to get that reaction, to get those pops
and the dramatic feel and.

Speaker 7 (02:39:12):
What we've all been missing.

Speaker 17 (02:39:14):
I'm just so excited for it, and I thank you
guys for sitting through this call.

Speaker 7 (02:39:19):
With me and Jim. Do we have any other ones?
It has been so great.

Speaker 28 (02:39:31):
I'm Kelly Wells, host of the seven Star podcast, the
new Ongoing Torch show covering the world of New Japan
pro wrestling. We'll drop new episodes as major shows and
noteworthy events dictate, and I'm Chris Lansdell.

Speaker 25 (02:39:44):
Join us as we cover the ever changing landscape of
New Japan as they navigate an era with no lack
of talent, but I really.

Speaker 4 (02:39:51):
Need to create some new styles. You can stream the
new seven Stop podcasts now from Pro Wrestling Talk.

Speaker 15 (02:40:11):
I was going to end with one more question.

Speaker 7 (02:40:13):
We are at the top of the hour.

Speaker 15 (02:40:14):
We are in a time limit, but per custom, we
normally spind the wheel and get one more call in
and one more question in, and we've done that, so
we have time for one more and the winner is
Lewis Gangor from Wrestle Talk.

Speaker 7 (02:40:30):
So Lewis, if you're there.

Speaker 15 (02:40:31):
We got time to jammy in here for a.

Speaker 4 (02:40:33):
Real quick one. Hi, Louis here from Wrestle Talk. Thank
you so much taking the time, Tony Hey, thank you.

Speaker 7 (02:40:44):
Obviously, you guys have done some great work with All
Out in the build.

Speaker 2 (02:40:49):
If you look at the card now, and we know.

Speaker 15 (02:40:51):
Obviously you guys planned quite far in advance, how much
has changed from what you guys planned or from what
you thought the All Out card would look like.

Speaker 7 (02:41:01):
A lot of it is the same. Uh.

Speaker 17 (02:41:04):
The biggest change I think, I honestly, it's mostly what
I expected.

Speaker 7 (02:41:10):
There have been a couple of changes.

Speaker 17 (02:41:12):
I originally had Brittain Swell on the main card and uh,
not being sure that britt hasn't wrestled a long time,
and I think their cinematic match is going to be great.
But uh, that was one thing that I changed. And
then also there you know, most of it really had

(02:41:34):
been the plan all summer. I think when you look
at uh that we wanted to do MJF challenging Moxley
for the championship, that we believed, Uh, you know, Kenny
and Hangman had this great run as champions and now
we've got arguably the toughest challenge we've ever put in
front of them, the number.

Speaker 7 (02:41:52):
One contenders being FTR.

Speaker 17 (02:41:54):
Uh that uh, you know, Matt and Sammy, the culmination
of their story and Chris versus Orange Cassidy. I think
that some challenges, some international challenges, change things up, and
thunder Rosa was some ingenuity. Kenny threw it out there

(02:42:15):
and like I said, I have a good relationship with Billy,
and when we were listing names and Kenny said thunder Rosa,
and I was like, I'll call Billy.

Speaker 7 (02:42:21):
It's a great idea.

Speaker 17 (02:42:22):
I'd love to do that, and so I booked it
and that was a change some of the names in
the Casino Battle Royale.

Speaker 7 (02:42:31):
There'd be some people if I.

Speaker 17 (02:42:34):
Had my ways that everybody could be here, that might
be a little different, but generally the vast majority of
those people are the people I would put in.

Speaker 7 (02:42:43):
And honestly, a lot of it's been good man.

Speaker 17 (02:42:45):
There's been people that have come in through the pandemic
like a great examples would be guys that have gotten
signed out of the Open Challenge, Ricky Starks and Eddie Kingston.
Ricky Starks came in. I didn't plan for this. Cody
had a list of names and that he suggested they
were good names. And at the Ricky Starts Week, Ricky

(02:43:08):
Starts was by far my favorite name on the list,
even though I'd never seen him in person and had
briefly met him once in Texas but never really spent
that much time with him or gotten to know him,
and had.

Speaker 7 (02:43:19):
Never seen him work in person.

Speaker 17 (02:43:22):
He blew me away in his match with Cody h
and I really wanted Ricky to be here.

Speaker 7 (02:43:27):
And not only that, but while Ricky was in the ring.

Speaker 17 (02:43:29):
With Cody, I knew what I wanted Ricky to do,
and I had already turned the gears in my head
about Ricky being with Taz and about Ricky working with
Darby and John Mosley, and before he had even gotten
back there, and I thought that was a home run
that he hit, and Cody hit with him in what
was kind of a tryout match. Uh, and Ricky hit

(02:43:52):
a home run. So that was something I hadn't planned
for for Ricky. And now Ricky is a huge part
of AW and a huge part of this because you
know Battle Royale, but I didn't like that necessarily months ago.
And also Eddie Kingston is another one. I've been a
fan of Eddie Kingston a long time and I really
enjoy Eddie. I think he's a great wrestler and a
great promo and I'd always thought maybe Eddie Kingston could

(02:44:13):
come in and sit in here, but it just hadn't.
I don't know, I'd never had that one idea click
where I was like, that's what we need to do
with Eddie Kingston. Cody had a list of guys again
Eddie Kingston. I was like, that's my favorite, that's what
I want and booked it and Eddie Kingston I thought
hit a home run. And again I had an idea
for Eddie Kingston.

Speaker 7 (02:44:33):
I thought, with.

Speaker 17 (02:44:35):
You know, Pack being gone, there was a great opportunity
for Eddie Kingston.

Speaker 7 (02:44:40):
We had done this eight.

Speaker 17 (02:44:40):
Man tag that was kind of a great match, I thought,
not kind of, it was a great match, I thought
with xgr and the Young Bucks at fighter Fest against
Phoenix Penta and Butcher in the Blade and we had
a fun story going there. And it's no secret we
really miss packed as a company. I really miss packed.
I think we all do. And you know, uh, last

(02:45:04):
year when Moxley was unavailable on All Out, Pack stepped
up for us, and uh, you know it's it's unfortunately
he's not here, but now we have all these other
guys on the crew to step up and so you know,
with with Eddie, I think he can be a mouthpiece
for the Luca brothers, but also we see a lot
of moving parts under his leadership, with Pana, Phoenix and

(02:45:26):
Butcher and Blade and Eddie coming in again. When Eddie
did the match and did a great job and nailed
the promo and and the reception to Eddie was so good,
I thought, Okay, well, I think Eddie.

Speaker 7 (02:45:36):
Would be great for this. So we pivoted some.

Speaker 17 (02:45:39):
Stuff and now all five of those guys are you know,
in this Casino Battle Royal and they're a big part
of the story. So some things have changed there. But
the main stuff on the card, a lot of it
was what we've always wanted to do. And Bucks versus
Jurassic Express, I think we felt like could be a
great match on the card again, two of the top
teams and both in the top five and set up

(02:46:00):
a great challenger whether you know either team would be
a great opponent for Kenny and Hangman or FTR after
the title match.

Speaker 7 (02:46:08):
So it's a great question.

Speaker 17 (02:46:10):
Man, and a lot of it's the same, but but
not all of it is what I would have said
months ago.

Speaker 7 (02:46:16):
But the.

Speaker 17 (02:46:20):
MJF and Moxley and Kenny and Hangman versus FTR.

Speaker 7 (02:46:24):
Certainly I would have told you a while ago.

Speaker 4 (02:46:26):
Uh.

Speaker 7 (02:46:26):
And and Chris versus Orange and Matt and Sammy. I
think if that makes sense, all.

Speaker 15 (02:46:33):
Right, Tony, well, everybody who has joined us, uh, thank
you very much. We're definitely at the end of our
time on behalf of everyone on, behalf of Tony and
everyone to all the lead wrest in one thousand. Thanks
for taking the time today join us and your continued
interests in AW. As we've said in the past, we
don't take your commitment to the wrestling industry for granted

(02:46:56):
and be assured it's appreciated, especially this year, very unusual
an event for a year. So we'll be distributing an
audio copy of the Child Conference show with Tony very shortly,
so we'll be looking for that. And again, thanks for
joining us, and we hope you enjoy all out on
Saturday night and the entire Holily weekend.

Speaker 4 (02:47:14):
Thanks very much.

Speaker 7 (02:47:17):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (02:47:39):
Invite you to email the show with feedback or questions
or comments. That email address is Wade Keller Podcast at
pewtorch dot com. That's Wadekeller podcast at pw torch dot com.
Also welcome your feedback on Twitter. Even follow us on
Twitter at pw torch and follow me at the Wade Keller.
That's at pw torch and at the Wade.

Speaker 12 (02:48:02):
Searching for more great pro wrestling talk, then join me.
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(02:48:24):
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Speaker 2 (02:50:33):
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Speaker 10 (02:50:37):
In twenty twelve, NXT transitioned into the developmental system and
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Speaker 11 (02:50:53):
Join Kelly Wells and me Tom Stout from PWT Talks
NXT every Saturday as we go eight years back to
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did or didn't work out Exclusively for PW Torch Vip.

Speaker 1 (02:51:05):
Members PW Torch VIP membership doesn't just give you add
free access to these shows and a ton of other
VIP exclusive podcasts throughout the week, but you also gain
access to our unmatched vast library of wrestling history, our
contemporaneous week to week coverage through our progressing Torch weekly
newsletters dating back to the late nineteen eighties, along with
streaming and download access to hundreds of retro radio shows

(02:51:26):
from the nineteen nineties, including some of my interviews with
wrestling's top newsmakers in the nineties, and also our podcast
library dating back to the year two thousand and three.
There's no larger, longer spanning pro wrestling podcast library than
that that comes with a PW Torch VIP membership. Now
approaching twenty years of podcasting, go vip and dive into

(02:51:46):
our post pay per view roundtables are covered with some
of your favorite eras of wrestling, top name long form interviews,
and special format podcasts that we've done throughout the years.
PW torch dot com slash go vip. You have a
streamline sign up for me and you can pay with
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In one or two minutes from right now, you can

(02:52:06):
be a VIP member and diving into our library pw
toorch dot com, slash go VIP

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