INTERVIEW CLASSIC (10 YRS AGO): Jim Ross on WWE's struggles, how fans can make a difference, what would help Roman Reigns, more

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 2 (01:36):
Now pw Torch and Spreaker bring you the Wade Keller
Pro Wrestling Podcast. It's time for this week's Interview Classic
where Wade Keller Interview is one of pro wrestling's newsmakers.

Speaker 1 (01:52):
Ten years ago this week, I had the privilege of
interviewing Jim Ross, the greatest wrestling announcer I think of
all time, certainly at his peak, he was the voice
of the professional wrestling industry. And for well over two hours,
we talked about a lot of topics, a wide range
of topics, but the big ones were what could help
Roman Arrange with his struggles winning over the fans and

(02:14):
what is going on with WWE struggles and how fans
could make a difference to make things better. We had
live callers and email questions we've throughout the conversation. I
always enjoy talking to Jim because we share so many
of the same points of view on at the core,
what pro wrestling should be, and then you can build
around that in modern ways, new ways, novel ways. But
at the core, what's the foundation that makes everything every

(02:37):
variety of pro wrestling work best? And we often get
into that on our long conversations, and this is a
good one, so check it out. This is the WAYD
Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast Interview Classic for Saturday, December thirteenth,
twenty twenty five. This interview originally live streamed on December tenth,
twenty fifteenth. Here we go, Welcome to the p W

(03:09):
Torch Live Cast. I am Wade Keller, editor and publisher
of the Pro Wrestling Torch weekly newsletter since nineteen eighty
seven and also editor of Pwtorch dot Com, the website
and host of this the PW Torch Live Cast, I
host on Tuesdays and Thursday's Tuesdays with Jason Powell from
Pro Wrestling Dot Net dissecting Raw and Thursdays is Interview

(03:31):
Thursday when we have special guests on the program, and
this week I am pleased to introduce Jim Ross as
our guest on today's program. Longtime host of Monday Night
Raw and if you're watching www Network, also the announcer
for Mid South Wrestling, a few episodes up on the
network A Jim Ross back in the day on Jim,

(03:52):
welcome back to the live cast.

Speaker 3 (03:54):
Well, thanks, good to be here.

Speaker 1 (03:55):
Great to have you, Jim. I'm glad to see you're
back on Twitter. That just seems like quite the headache
this week when you got hacked. And boy, I think
you're right about karma with whoever did that, given what
they put up on your Twitter page.

Speaker 3 (04:08):
Yeah, you know, it could have been worse. I guess
to declare that someone is dead is pretty defenditive.

Speaker 4 (04:17):
You know.

Speaker 3 (04:17):
It could have been some anti Semitic rant or homophobic
rant or anti American whatever. It could have been a
lot of anti whatever fill in the blank. That it
just happened to be, uh, my death. And so it
was a it was a very disturbing way to wake
up Sunday morning, to say the least.

Speaker 1 (04:37):
Oh, I mean, yeah, absolutely. I was skeptical from the
beginning because that just didn't seem like the way that
death would be announced. So I wasn't too worried. But
I assume you got a few phone calls or or
text or emails from people who were at least wanting
confirmation you were okay.

Speaker 3 (04:54):
Yeah, I got I got a lot of My cell
phone was in the living room, and of course I was.
I had worked. I was working on our autobiography, my
book and uh autobiography until about three o'clock in the morning,
so uh, I think my account was taken over around
five am. I think. I'm not sure, but I was.

(05:16):
I was set on to sleep. My phone was in
the living room, and I got a call from someone
that actually had my hardline number, and very few do
and so it rang once. I didn't answer it. I
thought it was, you know, a solicitor. Then finally I
answered it and it was my friend, and uh, you know,

(05:37):
he gave me the heads. So uh, Twitter had already
suspended my account. The boy I could have unsuspended getting
all over it address as a it's a major, uh
really major production, so I hope it doesn't have anybody
listening and I hope it doesn't happen to me again.

Speaker 1 (05:55):
Yeah, no, though that is no fun at all. We
will be taking live phone calls on today's program. We
can talk about Jim Ross's announcing career, the state of
professional wrestling content on WWE Network. All topics are open
and you guys can lead the way for a good
part of the program. Our phone number is six four
six seven two one nine eight two eight six four

(06:16):
six seven to two one nine eight two eight. When
you call, please push one on your touchtone phone to
indicate you want to be in the caller queue and
you're not just standing by to enter the conversation at
a later time. So it's important. After you a call
six four six seven nine A two eight you push
one on your touch tone phone. Let's uh, Jim, let's

(06:37):
go with a phone calls. I got a bunch of
things I want to talk to you about, but we've
got so many people on hold, I don't want to
leave them on hold for too long, and we'll let
them get us off to a hopefully a good start,
and we'll begin with aera code two one Ozero, and
then after that on deck will be four four three
two one to oh. Thanks for calling. Please state your
name in the city you're calling from.

Speaker 5 (06:54):
My name is Edgar and I'm calling from San Antonio.

Speaker 1 (06:57):
Heygar, thanks for calling. What have you got for Jim
Ross today?

Speaker 5 (07:00):
Yes, First of all, I am a huge fan of
your Workway Caller as well as Jim Ross the Hall
of Famer. Just wanted to go ahead and ask you
guys for your opinion on a mindset, because I know
everybody's pretty down on the state of business of wrestling
right now. But my question was, what do you guys

(07:21):
think of WWE letting go a lot of these writers
who did not grow up being wrestling fans or are
in wrestling. They're in it because of the paycheck. In
my opinion, what do you guys think of them hiring
a lot of ex wrestlers who would actually make a
big difference in producing and writing the show. Once again,

(07:43):
I just wanted to say how much of a fan
I am on both of you guys. Work Thank you.

Speaker 1 (07:47):
Great, Thank you.

Speaker 3 (07:50):
I I'm not ere for endorsing people lose their job, so,
you know, clean out the writing team and let's do
something very aggressive and you almost nature. I think that
the creative team needs to have.

Speaker 1 (08:10):
All right, what I'm going to do is cut to
a commercial break and we'll come back and get hopefully
Jim back on the line, and we'll continue on with
our conversation to taking more calls. Thanks, and here we go.
Word from our sponsors at the listener again, that's PW
Torch dot com slash Amazon. All right. I just got

(08:31):
a text from Jim saying that he is back on hold.
So let's go ahead and give this another try. Jim,
welcome back to the program.

Speaker 3 (08:37):
Okay, you're welcome.

Speaker 1 (08:38):
Thanks, Sorry about that.

Speaker 6 (08:41):
Good.

Speaker 1 (08:41):
Great question from Edgar asking about the writers. I want
to catch people up. I know you remember Jim, but
anyone joining us in process here? He asked about writing
or hiring writers who weren't wrestlers or don't have a
lot of background at entry level and wrestling otherwise, but
have a writing background on TV. And I think the
gist of AM and maybe interpret it differently, is would

(09:02):
it help the product to have more input, in fact,
even more writers or bookers who are ex wrestlers.

Speaker 3 (09:07):
Yeah, if you find the right personality, you've got to
have product knowledge in that room to some degree and
to varying levels. But then finding guys of the in
ring experience. That's what people are inferring that they some
people think that I guess that all wrestlers or most

(09:27):
wrestlers would do a better job than any of the
non wrestling types. That'd be like saying, well, way Keller
shouldn't be doing a wrestling being the wrestling business because
he's never been in the quote unquote being in the ring.
It's ridiculous to work the hours those guys work at
what they get paid. I don't know who you're going
to find, you know that's going to want to you know,

(09:51):
and live in the Northeast. You get to live near
the office, and it's a it's a challenging proposition. So
there's no automatic easy you flip the switch ficks for
any booking issue that never has been but you basically
go back to the root problems and find your base,
your foundation, and look at how many of the fundamental

(10:13):
rules are being broken in any promotion. So I'm not
a big proponent of that, Let's fire everybody a creative
and all the problems will go away, because some of
the guys you would hire might be a bigger pain
they asked to work with than the ones you're trying
to teach well.

Speaker 1 (10:30):
And I think too, we've had ex writers on this program.
You know, more than a half a dozen X writers
on this program who have worked with ensick Man, and
they all say the final product filters through Vince. Everything
you see on TV, I mean, probably a rare exception
is something Vince endorses. And I think with anything when
Rod's successful, Vince gets credit. When Rod is struggling, or

(10:51):
there's something on RAW you don't like, I mean, the
buck stops with Vincent. I don't think, Jim, he'd want
it any other way. The show we see on Mondays
and heck smacked on Thursdays, that's been smic Men's vision.
And the writers who stick around are the ones who
play who are able to facilitate Vince's vision or execute
Vince's vision in a way that that works within his

(11:14):
how he wants to function. So it's not like they
hired a bunch of writers, Jim, and they just hijacked
the show away from Vince's vision.

Speaker 3 (11:22):
Never I've never said that.

Speaker 1 (11:24):
Yeah, I wasn't saying you were. I'm saying that's a
per common perception that both you and I are trying
to dispel.

Speaker 3 (11:30):
Yeah, it's a I've been through that the process. It's
very challenging. Uh. And then today's were over. There's a
lot of information flow. The hardcore fans have more product
knowledge thanks to social media than they've had any generation.
So it's it's more challenging to be in that in

(11:53):
that role. So I still believe that the problems that
that the companies they have are very fixable, but you've
got to certain commitments and and and take put things
in place to to get the uh the brand had again,
whether it be w W or Ring of Honor, T
and A or anybody. I mean, there's a lot of

(12:14):
a lot of issues are There're a lot of common denominators.
So uh, but that's that's there's no there's no flip
the switch, creator sticks next next issue. You know, it's
just not that way.

Speaker 1 (12:26):
Yeah, we have a related email and I'll kind of
bounce back and forth between emails and phone calls. Adam
from Norwich in the UK. He calls it Page Country
says a quick question for Jim Ross. Can you see
w WE changing when or if it's McMahon retires or
is his philosophy of wrestling ingrained in his small inner
circle Stephanie, Triple H, Kevin Dunn, whomever, and he says,

(12:48):
I missed the real voice of w w E. Jim
Ross come back to the UK soon, great show.

Speaker 3 (12:53):
Well, thanks, uh. I always enjoy going to the UK,
and hopefully we'll be doing some dates there in twenty sixteen,
or just don't have them finalized. I got up to
a couple of projects that are up in the air
that I need to lock in some dates for some work,
and so we're definitely going to go back to the UK.

(13:15):
So that's one issue that will happen in twenty sixteen.
I think whoever's in charge, I assume it will be
Triple H when Vince is not there, Well, the product
will more resemble his vision. I don't think that's any
different than a new director taking over a TV show,

(13:36):
or a new coach and an NFL team or NHL team.
The product is going to reflect the philosophy of the
decision maker, the guy's in charge, who were the buck stops.
So I think Triple Ah product put his own spin
on things. What that will be in that grandest scale,
you know, everybody can expeculate, Oh, it'll be just like NXT,

(13:58):
He'll just do the same thing. We'll probably we'll do
the same thing, but there'll be some qualities out of
NFC that would be I think would be perpetuated and
move forward. But until you're there, it's hard to say
what you would actually do in that regard.

Speaker 1 (14:16):
You don't have to wait for the way Keller Pro
Wrestling post show to find out what I thought of
Monday Night Raw and SmackDown. Each week, you can check
out my reports that are updated live throughout Raw and
SmackDown at pwtorch dot com. My written report will tell
you what's happening in detail in case you missed the show,
and it will also analyze key segments and give my
random thoughts quips on what I am watching as it airs.

(14:39):
So check it out every Monday night and Tuesday night
at pewtorch dot com. That also applies to wwepayperviews. I
cover those live at pw torch dot com with a
detailed written report with star ratings, and of course you
can find other TV reports from other contributors to PW
torch such as NXT, ROH, Impact Wrestling and more. Check
it out pwtorch dot com your first stop four TV

(15:01):
and pay per views, written records. Earlier today, Triple H
on the conference call with Wrestling Media promoting NXT Takeover
London next Wednesday on ww ME Network three Eastern. By
the way, start time, that's gonna be kind of fun.
Corey Gray's on NXT last night was talking about how

(15:24):
people maybe can watch it at work on their phones
or tablets and be productive while also keeping up on Takeover.
Hunter was talking about the disadvantage and he's very upfront
about it that the main roster has producing five six
hours of first runt TV a week, where five or
six hours gets NXT through five or six weeks, and
that is a disadvantage. And I think Hunter knows deep down, Jim,

(15:47):
there's things he does that he would that he thinks
would work on the main roster. But no doubt some
of the things that make NXT appealing is that it's
going back in time to Mid South wrestling. Well, it
had you know, Power two or Power Pro, but you know,
one or two hours of wrestling a week to promote
your product and not overexposing and leaning so hard on

(16:08):
not just the wrestlers but the writers. And I think
that's a big problem. Eric Bischoff told me and I
did like a five to six hour torch talk with
him about five years ago, six years ago, and he said,
the biggest mistake he made was accepting the money from
TBS for Thunder, and it was so tempting, but it
watered down the talent and the writers and everybody. And
I think Hunter is acknowledging it earlier today. That is

(16:30):
a big challenge and it's difficult. And I think sometimes
people compare NXT to the main roster and they see
some things they like, But Jim, I don't think you
could just drop NXT into a three hour slot without
a bunch of problems coming up.

Speaker 3 (16:44):
Well, he is a three hour slot. Yeah, everybody can
look at them. Look at your goal to your local
movie theater, finding how many movies are playing right now
that are three hours or more. You'll find very few,
some of them not even two hours. But but the
average of a of a hit home is around two hours.
And yes, there are accessions to the rule. I get that,

(17:04):
But the vast majority of the big money spent on
major motion pictures through the market research they've done and
all the feedback that they get is about two hours?
Is today's intention spend to go to the movie? Certainly
is for me. I got to really be being thoroughly
entertained to get to get me deep into two hours.

(17:26):
Three hours, No way in hell. I'm not interested all
the way that comes out on our DVR or whatever.
But three hours is too long. They have a financial
model where they've made their broadcast partner very happy by
providing that third hour, and in the law hall they
will have to make a decision is the money that

(17:49):
they're getting for that third hour worth the challenge that
it brings with it to produce a programming So three
hours is never going to work. I don't care if
you bring everybody from NXT you on there. I don't
care if you do an NXC hour and then two
hours are raw. It doesn't matter. It's three hours of
programmed and it three hours is too much. But you know,

(18:10):
if you've made a financial commitment and as part of
your business model, you know that's one of those calculated
risk that Vince has been known to take. So we'll
see if they play that hand out and they maintain
three hours and they renegotiate or or not. You know, heck,
but three hours is never going to be an ideal
for them.

Speaker 1 (18:30):
It's funny you bring up movie theaters. I don't know
if you heard the conference call earlier, but triplate to
use the same analogy. He's like, I don't like going
to movies if it's over two hours, I'm checking my watch.
I can't sit still for any longer. So I think
there's an acknowledgment that three hours is a steep challenge
to keep people interested. And then but it worked for
a while, you know, I mean it was they sustain

(18:50):
that level of viewership. It's just this fall in winter
when we see more of a steep decline. Let's go
back to the phone lines. Jim Ross, the legendary wresting announcer,
best of all time, in my opinion, is my guest
on today's PW torch Live Cast. You can find our
shows on demand at PW torch livecast dot com, or
you can subscribe in iTunes, Stitcher, any popular podcast app.

(19:12):
Just center PW torch live Cast and we should pop
up or one of the perennial top ten top five
pro wrestling podcasts in iTunes, and we are talking to
the host of someone who manages to somehow stay ahead
of us. Jim, I don't know how you do it,
but you usually ahead of us in the rankings. Go
ahead and plug your podcast. I know you had an
interview with Kevin Sullomon Part two that dropped this week,

(19:35):
and I encourage people, and I don't know if anybody
on Hold is going to do it, but all week
I've been plugging this And if people heard the Sullivan
interview and they had follow up questions for you, I
encourage them to call up and follow up on that.
But please plug your podcast, one show, and anything else
you want. And by the way, please include your JR
the JR seasoning, because I told my mom that you

(19:58):
were going to be on the show today and she
was raving about JR seasoning. She loves it on her potatoes.
I love it on popcorn. I tweeted that and you
retweeted it. I'm a huge, huge fan and running low.
You know you handed us at the Hall of Fame
ceremony in Waterloo. You handed me and Bruce Mitchell I
think three of them, and Bruce gave him to I
shouldn't even say this. I think he told me he

(20:19):
gave him to me because he was traveling and he's like,
you'll probably use him. And he loves popcorn, and when
I told him it's my favorite popcorn topping, he got
really mad that he had given him to me because
he's a huge popcorn connoisseer. So anyway, I've worked my
way through him. I'll be ordering more. You've got me hooked.
The free sample, did it? And I gave my mom
one of them, and now she's hooked.

Speaker 3 (20:38):
Good deal. Well that's good stuff and it's tried and
true recipes. The guy that my business partner that makes
our beef Jerokey, used to be a work the barbecue
circuit back in the day before it got popular, before

(20:58):
food networkers in vine and all. And so he won
the grand championship and he's in these smoked Meat Hall
of Fame, believe it or not, And there really is
a fame. It's there, and his name is Stanbrooks. And
he created this rub and he gave me some of

(21:19):
it and I went nuts when I got home because
it was the best thing I've ever tasted. And I'm
very you know, I love the rub, I love the seasoning,
and we're like you, you know, you can open any
canned vegetable and that seasoning will make it better. You
can go on the grill and put any protein on
the grill or vegetables and use that seasoning and it
makes it better. So the season is good for ww

(21:40):
shop is shipping it online. We're in the Ingles grocery
store chain, about two hundred plus stores now in the
southeastern part of the United States. We've retained the services
of a food broker, so we expect to be in
more stores in twenty sixteen. We're growing our little business
as best we can. And then of course we have

(22:02):
a partner in Manchester, England at Americansoda dot co dot
UK at American Soda on Twitter and they deliver in
the UK and in Ireland and in Europe. So it's growing.
You know. It's a laborer love and it's growing. And
the podcast drops every Tuesday night. Podcast one would like

(22:25):
us to do more shows. I'm trying to work on
this book and do the one show and my other projects,
so I really we're not going to do a second
podcast right now, but we might consider doing one in
twenty sixteen once we get this book project put to bed.
And it's evolving very very well, so I'm busy. But

(22:47):
the barbecue stuff and the ketchup and the mustard mustard's
really clean, got one grammar sugar, and I got off
all the most all dairy, and I quit eating mayonnaise
and our miracle with and all that. So we created
our own mustard that was good. It's halipinia honey mustard,
just wonderful. So and the ketchup is sweetened in the

(23:08):
and uh uh it's kind of spicy, smoky. The Chipolti
ketchup really good. So we're it's growing. You know, it's
not it's not it's not changing our lifestyle, but it's
it's a little it's a phone project because basically it's
an old moos to my late mother because she used
to make all those project products but you know, in
the kitchen. So it's it's a way to thank her

(23:31):
a little bit for what she's roped to the table,
so literally rocked the table.

Speaker 1 (23:35):
Yeah, I've been off dairy for about eight maybe nine
years now, so I've got to try that, try that mustard.

Speaker 3 (23:41):
It's good stuff. And all of our products are are gluten.

Speaker 1 (23:46):
Free, excellent, excellent, And did you mention your website specifically
jars barbecue dot com.

Speaker 3 (23:54):
I did not. You know, it's the worst handle in
the world. I don't work with that market anymore. J
R s b A r b Q. I was just
on there a few minutes ago, and a lot of
people have emailed me questions. We do that's growing? Which
is nice getting helping our traffic. Uh it's uh we
do Q and A's on it all right. I think
I've written two or three blogs this week. Uh, but

(24:16):
I do that when i'm you know, I've got something
to say without just being an in commercial. So at
j R s b A r b Q dot com
is my website free, it's modivice friendly and didn't have
any ads on it to speak of. Nothing outside our window.
They're all our stuff, so nothing is going to interrupt

(24:38):
it and flash up. And you know, I'm not smart
enough to manage something like that, so really not. So
it's so it's good in our Twitter's back and going,
you know at j R s BBQ and uh so
the things are good and I sound like A. We're
doing a telethon here. We've got to I sting. I
guess the end result of all that oratory is that

(24:58):
I'm not retired are close to it or planning it,
and that I am planning on getting a little bit
busier in twenty sixteen. What's the new projects that we're
we're entertaining at this moment.

Speaker 1 (25:12):
Very good. If you were not a pw TOWRS VIP member,
I invite you to go vip in the place to
gow towards dot com get out and I think it's
really easy to use and really easy to sign up.
Let's go back to the phone lines and continue our
conversation with Jim Ross and we'll go to four four
three has promised on deck six one six four four three.
Please state your name and where you're calling from.

Speaker 7 (25:35):
Hey, this is Brandon from Westminster, Maryland.

Speaker 1 (25:37):
You said it's brand Brandon. Oh Brandon cool? Yep, go ahead.
What have you got for us? Yeah, no problem.

Speaker 7 (25:44):
Hey Jim and Hey Wade. Love you guys, Love what
you do. I just have a comment and then a question.
I really want to talk about the state of the dow.
You know, I'm not going to try to get on
here and rant, because that's obviously what I really want
to do, like any other fan, it seems like, but
you know, and I was a huge DM punk fan
before he left. And you know, I listened to that

(26:05):
podcast every once in a while he did with the
cole Obana, and it seems like a lot of his
things he disagreed with about the wwe are finally coming
into tuition and a lot of things are finally being realized.
And you know, one main thing he said to vincick
Man and a promo is that vincic Mann doesn't know
what a top star is, you know, And that was
in twenty eleven and its twenty fifteen now, you know.

(26:27):
And as far as Roman reigns, I just I don't
see it. I don't and I know I'm not in
the business, and you know, I'm just a fan, but
it's just he doesn't seem to me to be a
top guy, top baby face. And I don't know if
Vince still knows what it takes to what we know
what a top baby face is. So Jim and in way,

(26:47):
my question is do you think Vince, you know, is
he still capable of making a top baby face because
Roman Rains just doesn't appear right now that he's the guy.

Speaker 3 (26:58):
Go ahead, Jim, Well, I think WW is lucky that
they have so many fans that care First of all,
they've built a good base. So I think any time
you have a business and your customer base cares that
much to be that impassioned and let their feelings be
known in the variety of ways that they have, including this,

(27:20):
that's a good thing. The fact that the Roman Reigns
being the right guy or not is certainly subjective until
he evolves to be that person. If it's in the
cards and he's there a while, it's really none of
us can conclusively say what his future is. I think

(27:40):
that him being WWE champion and declaring that he's going
to be authority guy is not a bad idea. I
think my point being is that if they're going to
continue to produce him as heavily as they are, or
it restricts his natural personality degree, he'd be better off

(28:02):
being a heel and taking the rug from Hunter and
step and who do have and know how to to
to manipulate the television personas of villains. I think that
Roman Reigns has been I know that I like him.
I think he's a real good athlete, that he has
made a great commitment, he lost a lot of weight,
He's got himself in great shape, I'm sure he's as

(28:24):
confused as we are sometimes about what his role is.
But I don't know that he's the wrong guy. He
may be cast wrong, he may be in the wrong
because he may be put this way. I use a
lot of football metaphors. Here comes another one. He may
be playing defense and he should be playing offense. Maybe
he shouldn't be a linebacker, maybe he should be a tailback.
I don't know, but we're not going to know for

(28:47):
a while. But you can't. Here's what I do know.
I know that in today's world, whether it be wrestling,
fans or any other entity, with our independence and our
ability to be flexible and mobile, none of us are
going to respond to being force fed anything. So that's
my take on that. I think you can't do that

(29:09):
in wrestling nowadays. There's too much Again, fans are different.
You can't treat fans today like we did or like
they were treated in other generations. And it's certainly not
like they were treated when I got the business in
the mid seventies. They're a different, breedy cat. But you
still can't deviate from the fundamentals in the ring of
what a hero stands for and a villain stands for

(29:30):
because the seven Deadly Sins are still alive and well
in wrestling. I don't know how many people in creat
who could even answer the question, what are the seven
Deadly Sins? Well, you need to use some of those
components to construct the storyline, and the storyline needs to
be reality based and organic. So there's a lot of

(29:51):
things that are going on in the world wrestling. But
the good news I look at it as a glass
half full weight is that people care about the business
and the to chi them in. Is your business growing,
your resting side growing.

Speaker 1 (30:06):
Yeah. In fact, I just talked about it on Tuesday.
Our November numbers, we're up fifty percent from or just
short of fifty percent, about forty seven forty eight percent
from last November twenty fourteen, and we were up last
year about thirty eight percent from the year before. So
I mean we just were growing every month is above
where it was a year before. And as raw ratings
have gone down, our listenership is going up. And a

(30:27):
lot of factors play into that. But you're getting to
the heart of something, Jim. We are a place right
now where people hear like minded voices who are from
everyone Yeah, people want to vent together, they want answers,
and they want to express their frustration. And you hear this, Jim,
and I get frustrated by it. If you don't like it,
stop watching. And I don't know. I mean you can

(30:49):
use a football analogy. I didn't like how the Minnesota
Vikings played last Sunday, and I complained about it, But
I'm not going to stop watching them because they're my team.
You know, it's it's frivolous, it's fun, it's it's an ape.
And when they're down and out, you complain and you
have ideas for how they can be better, or you
wait it out and hope that smart people are making
some wise decisions to make the team better in the future.

(31:11):
But yeah, this show is doing really well in the
midst of this because what you said, Jim, there are
people who care so much about pro wrestling and they're
watching a product that isn't touch connecting with them in
a way that it did when you were at the
Helm during better periods of time. And I think they're
trying to figure out why. And part of what we

(31:32):
do here, our mission at the live cast is understand
why things work and why things don't you know. I mean,
that's a big part of our conversation here every day
on the show is trying to pinpoint what is it
that we love about it? And when it's clicking and working,
what is it? Identify it? And same thing when it's
not so Yeah, I mean, people say, well, way, do
you sound miserable, and it's like, no, I'm I've seen
higher highs and lower lows. You know, I've seen all

(31:54):
the ups and all the downs, and it's to me,
it's it's intellectually interesting fast to try to figure out
what's going wrong right now with ratings sinking. If you
missed it earlier, just a reminder, we're running our second
VIP sale of the year. We don't do these often,
take advantage of it now. It is a limited time
offer take nine dollars off a VIP subscription a one month,

(32:15):
three month or one year sub It brings the one
month sub down to just three dollars in ninety nine cents.
The coupon code is n O V twenty twenty five
as in November Nov twenty twenty five, and that takes
nine dollars off when you check out on our sign
up form PW torch dot com slash go vip gives
you full details on membership benefits and links to our

(32:35):
sign up form. Brandon a final comment from you, and
then I'll throw back to gym.

Speaker 7 (32:41):
He well, can I just I just want to add
on to that. It's like and I agree with everything
you say, but do you guys think that besides let's say,
Daniel Bryan and cmpump, what are there any other babyfaces
recently in the last decade or so that I've really
been quote unquote over? I mean, those two need are

(33:01):
the only ones that ring a bell in my head.
I mean, am I crazy?

Speaker 1 (33:04):
Or go ahead?

Speaker 3 (33:06):
I don't think I don't think you're crazy. I think
the uh one of the most challenging things right now
is to identify personalities and then decide based on today's
philosophical values and the changing way we think about a
lot of issues in our changing world that uh, you know,

(33:32):
I just I just don't. I don't know that John
Ceno is certainly over, certain still is over. But my
point is I find it probably more challenging to make
a baby face in today's marketplace because attitudinal taking shortcuts,
having a set of brass balls is a little bit

(33:54):
timely to the defiant male demographic in today's world. I'm
not I'm just saying that's what That's pretty much what
it is. So that's that's kind of where we are. Yeah,
you're right, there's Daniel Bryant and Punk got over organically
and then they got a little they got a notice
from WWE. Then they took it the rest away, and

(34:15):
it's been bad about Daniel Bryant his injury. And then Pump,
you know, had enough and he tapped out. So it's
but it's not easy to making babyfaces. But you're right,
those two guys were organically over, and Switch tells me
that if they got over organically, others can too. It's

(34:35):
given that opportunity.

Speaker 1 (34:37):
Let me tap you for some historical knowledge because Mid
South Wrestling is up on ww network. Not a lot
of shows, but some shows are up there, and and
it gives people a taste of a different air of wrestling,
and the pace and the production values of the show
are different. But there's something that strikes people when they
watch n WA World Champion Wresling TBS six or five
Mid South some of those eighty shows, most mostly those

(34:59):
two less to AWA because they were kind of fading
out at the time that Sean Michael's debuted. In that time,
there was there's a connection, and there's a connection that
the wrestlers had to the crowd as baby faces and
heels in the desired reaction you'd want from the crowd.
And there's an authenticity to the characters because they're not characters,
they're people. They're just eccentric people, brash people, and you know,

(35:26):
often loud and you want to watch them when they're
on camera, that kind of thing. But it's but they
felt like real people, not descripted characters. And I think
that's something that jumps out from the nineteen eighties that
that Punk and Daniel Brian exhibited and people connected with that.
Roman reigns right now as you say, perhaps being produced,
cast wrong or over produced isn't connecting, and I think

(35:47):
he's one week away from winning people over. It's just
a matter in Roman Rains's case of having the freedom
to do it and kind of genuinely feeling what he's
saying as opposed to showing up and being told what
to do and doing it. But my question of this
kind of long winded connection between or contrast between the
eighties and today is Bill Watts. When Bill Watts had

(36:07):
a lead babyface, did he ordain that and force it
and make it work? Did he listen to the crowd
and kind of choose among different wrestlers? How did Bill
Watson his time find babyfaces and portray them and succeed.

Speaker 3 (36:25):
By putting them into positions to sell tickets and putting
them in positive roles on television? Until the jury, which
is always the consumer, could make that call, then it
was a lot easier. You could declare success much easier,
and it was ninety eight percent of success, I'd say,
was how many tickets were you selling? Because that was

(36:47):
the majority of your income was derived from ticket sales.
You get a little bit of hey, we're doing we
must be doing something right because of the TV ratings obviously,
but that didn't make the major decision on how who
was going to be booked on top. He'd bring guys
in that had in a territory era that had a
track record at being stars and other territories. So it

(37:12):
didn't always work that way, but Dick Murdoch was a
star in other territories before he came to Mid South.
For example, just using one guy Carl Cox was a
star and other territories before he came to Mid South,
so they had a little track records, so that gave
wasse the ease to say, let's put them in the
spot so they can draw. I'll promise you if they

(37:33):
didn't get over after being booked very expertly and taken
care of on television, or they got momentum and you
understood who were the baby faces, who were the heels.
If they did not draw, they would be replaced. And
if they didn't like their role and are their income
level at that new semi main or middle of the card,
they would give their notice and somebody come in take

(37:54):
their spot. So it wasn't a very complicated situation basically
based on tickets say, and of course you know he
did the crowd react well? Did they get a good pop?
Did the heels get heat? Did the cops have to,
you know, intervene on a near riot, riot of situation
or whatever. A lot of organic things were looked at,

(38:15):
but Bill would make a commitment and then he would
ride that horse until he was more than clear that
it wasn't going to work. He was going to get
rid of the junkyard dog at one time, and Ernie
Ladd talked him out of it because Ernie saw something
and Dog and Bill gave it a chance to work.
And then all of a sudden and all of a sudden,

(38:36):
but eventually, by working with him and finding out what
the strengths and the weaknesses were, Junkyard Dog became the
biggest star in the history of mints out so and
people that saw him in WWF at the time never
really saw the real Junkyard Dog, same as Jim Duggan.
John Duggan was more of a comedy character. One man
Gang was one of the great big big men heels,

(38:57):
but he was recast with another company's huh, but that's
how Wats would do it. But he would always give
the guy enough time and he had good instincts, do
have really good instincts on talent, and he was gonna
draw it and didn't. So that's that's that's how it
worked for me.

Speaker 1 (39:14):
Is there a valid comparison or not in the Junkyard Dog,
the Butcher Reid and John Cena and Roman Reigns in that.
You know, Bill thought, maybe butch Reid can be a
big follow up to Junkyard Dog, and it just it.
He didn't end up getting to the position that Jyd
did well.

Speaker 3 (39:33):
I think what Bill was trying to come up with,
I was right there with him.

Speaker 8 (39:37):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (39:37):
You know. Bill's idea was that we needed to replace
Jyd with another African American and that nothing else would work,
which is why we went through so many uh black wrestlers.
You know. I think pork Chock Cask got a little
try out, Master g Brick, cast Brown, even edg Carr,

(39:58):
Bo Thomas, the restle of ou. I mean, we tried everything,
but the bottom line was is that the replacement was
right in our own roster. And the other thing that
we realized is that if you got a begy face over,
it didn't make any difference because a black man or
a white man or any other color, if you got

(40:19):
him over, he's over. And Jim Dugan got over, and
Jim dun got over with the African Americans just as
fervently as he was over with the Caucasians because he
Bill knew how to get him over. And the other
thing is is that our soundtrack on all this stuff
was sports oriented. We broadcasted like it was a shoot.

(40:42):
We were serious about it, but we talked about holes
and jeopardy and pain and agony and all these things,
and how critical it was to be the champion, how
the winners won made more money than the losers, the
incentive factor. Then it become personal issues. But the sound
track of the wrestlers make the music, and the announcers

(41:03):
provide the lyrics. It's very simple and that so my
my one of the first daling job, I said, is
there anything you want me to do specifically? He said, yes,
I want you to call it like it was a shoot.
I want you to call it like you would a
call game or anything else without insulting the audience. If
you see a guy whip and he misses on a punch,

(41:25):
don't give me that boy. That was a man. What
a right hand layout? Because back then you weren't going
back and doing that much editing. You couldn't afford it.
So what you got, what's what you got. So it
was a he had this great instincts. He had a system.
I think the system still works, but I think it
goes back to fundamental things. Uh. And you know, Roman

(41:47):
Reigns doesn't need to be for example, we're talking about him,
he doesn't need to be in long interview segments. He's
not ready for that yet. He just really isn't ready
for that yet, and he's probably more have to be
more over as being the strong, silent type. I did
an interview that a night for a future podcast, and
I asked Rook Adams, former mus test marker, if she

(42:09):
thought that Roman Reigns was sexy and uh, and she
said absolutely. And I got some people that I know
at the gym I go to, Some ladies say the
same thing. Of course, they're just flipped the channels right
Nowhayer of Watches. But uh, so you got to You
got a guy that man Mickey held a heel. His

(42:31):
positioned correctly, because but being a heel, you learn more
about the business a little faster than you do as
a baby face. And you have to be a better
entering psychologist to be a great heel than you do
to be a great baby face. In my opinion, that's
all just one guy's opinion.

Speaker 1 (42:47):
There was a sign that the director of Raw shined
on Uh on the uh. In the crowd, there was
a fan sign held up and it said, our wives
are here to see Roman Reigns. And I don't know
that the director saw, but there was fine print and
smaller print under it going and we have no idea why.
So you know, there's there's something to that where the

(43:08):
guys are kind of anti Roman and the women, who
are a minority of wwwe's audience obviously might be more
apt to like him. But there's a way to certainly
turn everybody against him if if they portray him the
right way. I'm with you on the short interviews. In fact,
Bruce Mitchell and his column in this week's Progressing Torch
newsletter wrote that you know he's writing a column on
you know here, what's a formula to try to get
out of a rut? And one of them is don't

(43:30):
have your top star in long promos, you know. I mean,
that's that's something that if someone can pull it off,
you do, but if they can't, you shouldn't force it
just because of the format of the show. So I
think a lot of people feel that's a disadvantage for Roman,
that he's being put in that position.

Speaker 9 (43:46):
Need an extra dose of positivity in your wrestling podcasts,
will come join me Alan fourrel Over in the Progress
Paradise at pedotorch VIP as we mask on the bright
side of wrestling and focus on some of the great
matches and shows from around the world, be it the US, Japan,
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(44:07):
in the Paradise too, and we've done fun historical shows
such as the We Love Liger series celebrating the glorious
career of Jusian Thunderliger and our eye was there when
shows where our guests will join me to talk about
a classic bout that they were in attendance for. We
love variety and you can expect lots of it at
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(44:30):
a list of all the VIP benefits is available at
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Speaker 3 (44:52):
He's overexposed and opening the show. You Austin used to
do that all the time. Uh, Austin never didn't open
too many raws or three hours long. So let's dispel
that rumor. The three hour raws different animal to have
a long opening segment and op and and and that

(45:13):
that was played forward and then to come back at
the end of the night for more oratory and a
little bit of physicality to lead into the the uh
event that TLC on Sunday. Uh, I didn't, it didn't,
It didn't move my I'm going to watch the show
and I'm going to talk about the show next week

(45:34):
with Vince Russo, which should be interesting on my piet
on the roster port. But uh, because he and I
don't have the same philosophical agreements or philosophies, but I
respect his opinion and I and hopefully he'll respect mine.
So it's that's simple. Civility is not a bad thing.
Uh So I think that you look at I don't

(46:00):
if I was running the show, not that I would
want to, but if I have had my own little
territory and I had a booker and I had a
three hour show to do, you'd have to explain to
me why one of our top stars is going to
be in front of the live audience multiple times. I
got to be sold on that one. So in other words,
you come out, you have a good piece of business,
and then you come back in two hours and you

(46:22):
got more of the same guy. It's got to be
specially written, it's got to be peased, it's got to
be manipulated. But force feeding ain't going to work. Overexposure
isn't going to work. And I read the spoilers for SmackDown,
I think on your site, and I found out that

(46:46):
the fifty to fifty booking is alive and well. And
I'm not going to spoil smack Down for anybody, but
you watch yourself. What is it that he lost on Monday? Right?
So there's no vertical booking, verticality one. That's what you
want to try to achieve, vertical booking, And right now
they're doing horizontal booking. And it's almost like they're in

(47:08):
a holding pattern until they're ready to hit the ignite
and uplift button that leads us to from early January
to the Royal Rumble to WrestleMania. Uh so at that
the day of there's grandiose plan and I hope they do.
I'm offer everybody being successful. The thing about it is
your business will go as and and Ring of Honors

(47:31):
business will go, and T and A's business will go,
and all the indie promotions will go as the WW goes.
If WW gets hot again and everybody starts loving wrestling
again and oh it's what it's back in the fact
the way I remembered it, and this is great. Uh,
then uh, the WW does well, everybody that's involved with it,

(47:51):
it will do well. That's my theory. So I'm I'm
I'm not kissing their butt and I'm not looking for
a job. I'm just saying that the reality of it
is I'm a fan and I want all the companies
to do well without being a sick a fan of
any of them. Wow, I just find the karma's bad.
I mentioned that karma about my Twitter getting hacked. Karma

(48:12):
is a bitch man, and I don't I don't tend to.
I don't want to play that game. So I just
I just think that there's a lot of things that
we can we look at. And again it comes back
to the same thing. There's a lot of fans that
love the product. They still love it. You can't run
them off, but they can sure take hiatuses. They could
take sabbaticals. And the greatest research you get as a

(48:34):
wrestling promoter is that when a chair in the in
the stands in the stadium, which is eighteen inches wide,
is empty, and ass every eighteen inches is great market research.
An empty seat every eighteen inches it is equally as
good of research, only in another form. So and that's

(48:55):
where I am on this. In that situation is the
thing that right now, ww's got a find what's going
to make the people, what's going to turn him on,
and what's going to turn him on, I think is
for somebody to get on an amazing role. And that
means that some of the established incumbents that have been
around a while, you to start putting some guys over.

(49:15):
I agree with that right place, right time, and make
it mean something. I used to get passued out when
that when they bring in, uh, the underneath guys, the jobbers,
I hate that word. It just sounds like just dirty.
But the enhancement guys, that preliminary guys. Uh. If I
didn't have something good to say about him on TV,

(49:36):
I would run foul the big cowboy because what good
is a rate new to bring a guy in and
he's nothing. So when our star beats him, he beats nobody.
That makes no sense. So that's why I put on
my word of blog, or I might have that might
have been on my on the podcast this week. I
don't think it's the wrong time to have the return

(49:58):
of the occasional enhancement match. There are so many good
independent wrestlers out there that want to want a shot.
We might be really surprised how well conditioned and the
good look that some of these young guys had that
are willing to come in and put somebody over for
pay day and they and let get a good look
at them and see how they are in they're building

(50:18):
and so and they and never know when you're going
to discover somebody that is a keeper. You don't never know.

Speaker 1 (50:24):
So Justin Cell and the Hardy started off as TV jobbers,
among others they.

Speaker 3 (50:31):
Did, and I hired them. They they made their own
they made their own ring attire. So I mean, they
really wanted to be the game and they were unique
and they and what you find is that a lot
of the veterans that they're putting over love working with
them because they listened, they're talented, they had good timing,

(50:51):
they had two left be so it was I just
don't think there's nothing wrong with that concept. But that's
the same thing we talked about before Wade about it, said,
you know, how can you have a sporting event that
has no time limit? It's it's it's irrational. Think about it.
There's no It seemed like the sense of urgency and

(51:12):
the announcers voices and the fans reaction is heightened when
there's a clock involved, because every sporting event that we
watch practically has clocks or measurements, innings, periods as so
we grew up with that. So how do we why
do we deviate from something that basic from our TV

(51:34):
wrestling show? Doesn't make any sense to me. Plus, you
eliminate a damn good finish because you don't have any
time limits, so therefore you can't have any draws, which
makes really no sense. In other words, that's this. That's like,
let's say you and I are going to wrestle on TV,
which will be a cip for sore eyes. Uh. And

(51:55):
before the we went on, there was a little bug
at the bottom screen wakehell or to Pach Jr. Six
minutes seventeen seconds with a sunset flip or whatever. Well,
that kind of kills a match to me. But that's
kind of what you're you know, that's just the information
flow is just amazing, and I just, you know, I

(52:17):
get frustrated talking about it the name as youngbody else
are frustrated now, But I'm not angrybody. I just wanted
to I want it to be better, to be good,
that's all. I've had my forty year round and it's
a great run and I'm not done with the wrestling,
but I just would like for it to be better,
that's all.

Speaker 1 (52:32):
For everybody, I'm with you, and I mean you brought it.
I'm a big advocate for bringing back the enhancement match,
the squash match, whatever you want to call it NXT.
I mean Corey Hollis and John Skyler last night lost
in two and a half minutes. Stenzo and Colin Cassidy
Oscar beat Deona Pirazzo in under three minutes on NXT,

(52:53):
and it was enhancement matches. It got it gave a
chance for stars who are wrestling next week in London
on Takeover to shoe off their stuff, be featured, and uh,
you know do it's basically like I do an NBA analogy.
It's like a slam dunk. It's it's it's it's giving.
It's when you're when you have a really good team
and they're playing a really bad team, some of your
star players athletically get to do some pretty spectacular passes

(53:16):
and dunks or put on a three point exhibition if
we're watching a Golden State team, and and that's fun.
You know, that's part of the mix, and that makes
you look forward to Golden State then taking on a
San Antonio or you know, another elite team later on
in the season because you got to see them do
their stuff unin with with less interference from a high

(53:37):
quality opponent. And that's also part of sports. So yeah,
that sports like feel is something NXT has, It's something
I like about roh. It's something that actually TNA has
had more of a vibe of recently there with some
exceptions to the narrative with the tournament, because it's brackets
and it's the it's not even Stephen fifty to fifty.
It's if you win, you go on, if you lose,
you go home, And so that I with you, Jim.

(54:00):
I like more of that, not less of that, and
I think it would help RAW. But philosophically it seems
like Vince McMahon feels sports entertainment to something other than that.
But I think the fans are speaking right now, and
I think it's important to listen to them and try
to figure out maybe some habits and beliefs need to
just maybe be softened a little bit and try some

(54:21):
different things. Anytime you're watching WWE Raw or SmackDown or
AEW Dynamite in particular, send us an email if you've
got thoughts on the show or a topic you want
us to address or a question for us. Wade Keller
Podcast at pwtorch dot com. Wadkeller Podcast at pewtorch dot com.
If there's anything else going on in pro wrestling that

(54:43):
you want us to address on our main podcast during
our mailbank segments, that same email applies Wadekeller Podcast at
pwtorch dot com. We invite that interaction. Let us know
what you think of what we're saying, and let us
know what you want us to talk about and ask
us specific questions. Wade Keller Podcast at PW towards dot com.

Speaker 3 (55:03):
Well, look, if you're going to selling tickets for any entity,
your most important asset are you are the ticket buyers
and uh if you're looking to earn more money by
your television ratings and the delivery of your television product
than the television ratings are right there. So obviously if
the readings are down and the live event business is

(55:27):
soft and there's a lot there's more empty seats in
our pill seats, uh, there's more half houses and sellouts. Well,
then obviously you're not providing the consumer with what he
or she wants to purchase from. You are are to,
you know, share their time with you. So you've got
to do things that are are different, whether it in

(55:49):
mind not your personal philosophy that you wish it was
a little bit different, but I think it's almost like
and some young fans hate to hear it, but you
know they're the old Some of the old school principal
are still very much alive and well if utilized, you
need to go retro. For everybody in bull tights and
short boots, you know, and flat top haircuts. Everybody has

(56:10):
looked like, you know, the bruiser or a crusher. You
have to change all that. But fundamentally, you know, the
selling not selling, and the using great finishes for high
spots and kicking out of this and kicking out of
that is it. It begins to erode the emotion. And
I find myself. I watch Raw every week on DVR.

(56:33):
I can't watch the three hours because I'm doing podcasts work.
If I were home, I would still watch Monday Night
Football and not DVR RAW more than likely. So, uh,
it's just I got I got to be more mostly
invested in the product and and that's just hard to
do for three hours. And that's you know, the three

(56:53):
hour thing isn't going away, So you've got to figure
out how to get to make it a more entertaining show.
And are there produced elements and some cool things off
the network that could be planted in that second hour somewhere?
I don't know why not. It's if, it's if, if
you could connect the dots with it, why not? In

(57:13):
other words, if you were doing a three hour Raw
and you're promoting this is this Sunday is TLC. And
then he had a magnificent TLC history package that started
at the beginning and brought you all the way forward
in TLC's And he saw that the matches, the matches
in that paper, you had a little bit of lineage
in history. It might make it be more motivated to

(57:35):
want to buy or go or watch this Sunday. I
don't know. But there's a lot of right ways to
fix the situation, and it's not it's not an unfixable problem.

Speaker 1 (57:44):
I could promise you absolutely no, I agree with you
on that. And you said it a having announcer street
it like a shoot and giving it that sports like
field is one of the easiest things that would change
the stuff. What did Triple H call it earlier on
his conference called the vibe? And I can't remote notes
The vin feel of a show changes when the announcers
are are truly invested in it as if it's a shoot,

(58:08):
and I just don't get that feeling often enough. I mean,
I think maybe r Oh does as good a job
as anybody right now in that regard with Kevin Kelly,
but and Steve Carnal, But I mean, yeah, it's it's
I miss it, you know, I miss you being on raw.
I mean it's that when we watch old clips and
there you are. It's like, Wow, that's a big ingredient
that's missing. But anyway, let's let's go back to the

(58:29):
phone lines. We've got tons of people on hold. I
don't know how many we'll have time to get to.
I don't how much time Jim has but let's go
to six one six and then up next is seven
to four, uh six one sixth. Please state your name
and where you're calling from.

Speaker 10 (58:40):
This is Air from Grand Rapids.

Speaker 1 (58:42):
Hey, Eric, thanks for Colin. What have you got for jam?

Speaker 10 (58:44):
Yeah, I had another I hadn't want to answer you
another question, but we started talking about and enhance their wrestling.
It's just it's as George South was just to find
that role in the eighties. Just he would he could.
He would job get the mall Keys, He'd get people
like the Mallkey's all over. And I remember a match
I think Jr. Called at Center Stage Atlanta. He got
a little Ricky Nelson over and just it just said

(59:07):
that I have a question.

Speaker 7 (59:08):
Then I have another.

Speaker 10 (59:09):
One more question is when how does WWE decide when
they come to a city that has two different arenas,
which areada they go to? Because every time they come
to Detroit they come to Joe Louis and I just
thought the Palace was a better is a much better venue.
And then if he has then if he has an
opinion on that, that's that's the thanks very much.

Speaker 3 (59:28):
I think the sometimes they have they have agreements for
the management groups, the arena management groups, or they have
a blanket deal. There's you know, there's a couple of
major UH arena management groups. So if they have a
if they have an agreement with that group and that

(59:49):
groups and there manages one of the two buildings like
the Detroit for example, they're going to go to that
to the venue that their manager group is managing. You know,
that's how that but uh, you know that's that's not
that's not a hard decision. I think somebody people ask
the same question about Chicago. There's the All State Arena

(01:00:10):
provides them where they better atmosphere as a rule than uh,
the United Center downtown and not noting the United Center,
I I did we we I think we might open
that building up or we're the second Venning or something
like that once upon a time, because I know I
did a radio WW radio broadcast of Guerrilla Monsoon on

(01:00:32):
a pay per view there and it might have been
it seemed like it was like a Luger versus Jokulazuna
or something like that back in that era. But uh,
it's generally just they're they're honoring their commitment to the
management groups of these of these.

Speaker 1 (01:00:45):
Arenas Yeah, like S M G, A, E G. Some
of them have Yeah, you know, they manage a bunch
of arenas and they just yeah, it that determines what
building you go to, and it does. It's not always
the ideal building, but if they're with that management group
and that's where the deal is, then they stick with that.

Speaker 3 (01:01:02):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:01:02):
Yeah, Oh very good. Jim. We're at the one hour mark.
Do you have some time to take some more calls
or you want to tight schedule?

Speaker 3 (01:01:10):
No, I'm good right now. I've got my I actually
got my workout in early today. And people, instead of what.

Speaker 1 (01:01:17):
You've got, you've made a lot of positive steps. We
talked about that in Iowa in July at the Promising
Hall of Fame ceremony too. You are you're taken seriously
your health and trying to manage all kinds of things
that are important to manage to stay healthy and continue
to do all the things that you do well.

Speaker 3 (01:01:36):
I I haven't had a cigarette in two years, and
that was a big deal. All the years I was
at WWE, I had sleep at in the end didn't
know what so I was never getting rim sleep and
sleeping you know, three four hours a night, literal really,
and there's no big embellishment.

Speaker 6 (01:01:55):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (01:01:56):
And we've moved to Oklahoma, and just in a conversation
with our GP, or general practitioner with my wife, they
found out that she thought I had had sleep at
me since the WCW days in the late eighties. So
I had a sleep test done and I stopped breathing

(01:02:16):
sixty six times in a minute, in an hour, sixty
six times I stopped breathing in an hour, and that's
very alarming. So I was on my way to a
heart attack death. And I kept having these memories and
these visions. I give my book away here, but I
always kept on this reoccurring dream that I was gonna
I was gonna be found dead in a Marriott. It's hideous,

(01:02:39):
I understand it, but that's what I so. I don't
know if it was somebody trying to tell me something,
but I got the sleep test I got. I had
chronic sleep at man, and now I treat it. I
have full mask and I sleep with that machine and
that's you know, that's what I do. And I also
was a ww. I didn't know I had all these
stomach aches, didn't know why. But I didn't realize that

(01:03:01):
part of that, my large intestine had perforated, and so
for a couple of years there I was having these
excruciating stomach aches, but I didn't take time off to
get it figured out. And you know the law of
the jungle, it's not the Vince McMahon law. Bill Wats
had it too. Would the strong survive in the week
get called from the herd. So I just I didn't

(01:03:25):
want to get called from the herd. I was like
a lot of people in resting business. You get parano
it about your job because there's only a few places
you can work to make a living. And I had
a great job and I was making a lot of money,
more than I ever dreamed. I was making my life.
So I just had I drank kept a busin Waw
like it was a you know, mountain dew or something
smart water. But it wasn't that. It was a perforation.

(01:03:48):
So that ended up with thirteen inches of my testin
being removed, which also resulted in doctor Heine's thing on
the raw that night. So I've had a little health issues.
I thought I got to fix this deal, and I
look at the guy in the mirror, So I'm working
out I got a higher trainer. I work out three
or four days a week with him, and I'm watching

(01:04:08):
what I eat, and I'm just doing better doing things
that are smarter. So I'm just I want to live
longer and the things I want to do, I'm not
through working yet. I got and I have more vitality
and more energy and more recall now, and I probably
I probably a better wrestling announcer today than I was
in the last ten years for my career, without without

(01:04:30):
a doubt, I see things more clearly. I'm not distracted
by pain. And I also had an issue where I
was taken to I got subscribed a prescribed ambient, which
is a sleep medication. We'll go to a WINVMD and
find out that ambient is a temporary diagnosis or a

(01:04:51):
solution to insomnia. So we found out what his cause
an insomnia sleep at me. But I got ten years
worth of ambien, a ten year ambient habit. So I started,
you know, having all kinds of issues with the ambient.
So you know, my doctors said, well, we'll wean you
off of it, and I was too hard headed and

(01:05:12):
I said, I wean my ass I'm done. It's like cigarettes,
that's it. I quit cold Turkey, and I quit the
ambient cold Turkey. But all the time, if I didn't
have ambien and a cocktail, there were a lot of
nights on a road and traveling in WV that I
wouldn't I wouldn't have got any sleep. I had payroll
to do, I had talent problems to deal with. I

(01:05:32):
had to be JR. The announcer. You know. I worked
very closely with advance, which is very demanding. It was
very rewarding, but boy it was. It was a tough run.
So all those things are coming back to me because
we're writing this book, and the book's going to be
pretty unique.

Speaker 1 (01:05:48):
I think that's uh, yeah, that's quite the story. I
think people are going to learn a lot about the grind,
not just of taking bumps in the ring, but just
keeping up with the schedule and like you just having
to be on for hours at a time. I'm on
air and then yeah, all those health issues. Man, it's uh,
it's a good thing you're here today. I think you
probably get pretty fun. Yeah, yeah, definitely, all right, figure out,

(01:06:11):
let's go, uh, let's go to our next call. If
you're just joining us midstream, I'm Way Keller, host of
the program, and I invite you to visit PW torch
dot com every day. That's p w torch dot com
updated with great news stories. James Calldoll does a great
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(01:06:31):
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sign up form MMA torch dot com. Back to the show,
we go seven two four, As promise you're up next,
and then eight one and three you'll be up next
to us seven to four. Thanks for holding please state
your name and where you're calling from.

Speaker 11 (01:07:14):
Hi.

Speaker 12 (01:07:14):
I'm a named is Anthony from Pittsburgh.

Speaker 1 (01:07:16):
Thanks for calling, Anthony.

Speaker 3 (01:07:17):
What do you got for Jim?

Speaker 12 (01:07:19):
Well, first of all, I'm gonna keep up with a
phone call etiquette and say it's a pleasure to talk
to both you gentlemen right now.

Speaker 1 (01:07:24):
You don't have to do that.

Speaker 12 (01:07:28):
I didn't want to get in trouble. I wanted to
ask about the women. With this year's WrestleMania coming up
and then well next year's Mania coming up, the women
has the Diva's Division things. The Revolution is kind of
winding down a little bit now and breaking off into
separate storylines with Charlotte and Page and the Becky and

(01:07:49):
Page thing kind of looming in the background, and Team
Bad and Team Bella kind of still going at it.
But I wanted to note to keep it rolling. Do
you think at WrestleMania they should have a singles match
for the title with a meaningful story behind it, or
another one of these big tag matches.

Speaker 13 (01:08:06):
It gets more people involved.

Speaker 3 (01:08:08):
Well, I can put the big tag match, lets everybody
not have a boot boo face and gives them a
reason and get all gussied up as they would say,
and their new outfits on the pre show. I think
that if you really want to get the title over
and you want to make it be taken seriously, that
you have a championship match and with the challenger having

(01:08:34):
a strong personal issue with the champion, and I need
to know who the antagonist is and who the protagonist is,
and I am very confused over the last couple of
weeks ask who's on, who has a home jersey and
who has an away jersey. So that's a problem for me.

(01:08:56):
And I am an advocate of the women having roles
in the business and obviously in the ring as well,
and I'm happy with what they've done, but I think
you've really got to get some personal issues rolling. I'm
not big on on on factions that seem to be
manufacturing factions and not organically you know, engineered. So my goal,

(01:09:23):
if I was booking it, it would be the great
match that you've been waiting to see, champion and the
number one contender. Probably my run to get it all
really interested is I would probably have some sort of
competition to determine the number one contender that would take me.
That would start after the Royal Rumble and with the
a few weeks of TV to determine the number one contender,

(01:09:45):
and then finally, now we know, then you have the
contract signing and et cetera, et cetera. Give it the
same love you would give it to the mails, and
maybe at the end of the day people will have
the same kind of feeling emotional investment in it. So
that's how I would look at that situation. I'm not
interested in another six man or six women or are

(01:10:06):
on the I want to see the title be defended,
just like you're going to see. I'm sure the WW title.
The W doesn't even make a massive mistake if they
have the WW title in anything but a one on
one match.

Speaker 1 (01:10:17):
In my opinion, with the women, no, I'm with you
on that, and I think you know we talk about
the burden of a three hour format when they announce
it through our format. One of the positives the potential
positives was more time for the US or IC title,
more time for the tag team division to develop the
tag division, uh, and more time for the women. And
it's taken a while, but now the women are getting

(01:10:38):
two segments per show plus maybe one or two backstage interviews,
more time to get Over. I think they're halfway to
where they should be as far as that goes, not
in terms of time, but in terms of like you're saying,
the treatment, featuring it and with a tone that this
is at that level. I mean, I thought it was
fantastic on the last NXT Takeover special. Then you had

(01:10:59):
the women's match headline. First of all, they deserved it,
they earned it, and before that and certainly that night
they earned that spot. But it elevated the belt by
being in that spot. And Triple H talked about that
today in the conference call too. That one thing he
thinks that has boiled over a little bit from NXT
and moved to the main roster is a better portrayal
of the women. Although I'm with you, Jim that segment

(01:11:22):
with Miz and Paige and Charlotte, I wasn't sure who
I was rooting for in that situation, and I just
think that's something you want to avoid if you can
help it. Every once in a while, you got to
have some heels cross paths, But in this case, I
think it just takes it takes away from Charlotte's turn,
if that's indeed what was happening when you're actually kind
of maybe rooting for her against mis or rooting for

(01:11:43):
her against Page. So I'd like to see like you
say that, and the home team in the away team jerseys.
I like the way you put it in as far
as that goes.

Speaker 3 (01:11:51):
Yeah, I don't care who's worring them. I just want
to know who they are so I get a better
feel because you should have talent. Said no, I haven't
matched with the nuances of they. They think of a
bavy face takes to think a bad drop on a
heel and a bad drop taken by a baby face
should be nuanced. They should have their own little idio secrecies. Uh.

(01:12:13):
And a lot of people get that, and some people
don't until you're overthinking it.

Speaker 6 (01:12:16):
You know.

Speaker 3 (01:12:17):
Really it's just being really good at what you do
in the ring as a great heel or a great
baby face. Uh. But I I think that because some
of them are still learning their way around, they're still green.
In other words, Uh, I think that you've got to
declare who's the heel of this heavy face. And I
don't know, I don't know what. I don't know if

(01:12:38):
Charlotte is Charlotte's very good uh. And but there's several
of them are very good, but I don't. I don't
for whatever reason. I'm not emotionally invested yet in some
in some of the ladies, and I want to be.
But the only way you're going to make me do
that is to get me. I got to know more
about them, and I got to know why they're why
they're why this issue with with the with the female

(01:13:00):
A and female B exists. And if I and if
I hear the announcers call it and they're not, their
heart's not in it. They're just having some fun with
it because they're women, uh, And it disconnects me. So
that goes back to that soundtrack. But you know, I'm
not knocking the announcers because they got jobs. They hey,

(01:13:20):
they got jobs. I don't. So that's what I'd say
at Hustin. Some as called an A j r. Or
why are you knocking all the announcing they got jobs
and you don't. Well, Uh, that's true on the surface,
But the issue is is that those guys are doing it,
are working like they're produced, they're doing as they're told,
and I think that you know, there's there's certainly room for,

(01:13:42):
uh for that game to be tweaked, no different than
they want to tweak their booking. It's like Gray Wyatt
comes out on Monday night, he comes out to confront uh,
the these heels, right the Shamus group. I haven't heard
of a murmur or or a little bit of a

(01:14:03):
change in the heartbeat when Bray White spoke because I
think people were waiting on him to turn babyface. I
think they wanted to be a baby Face. I said
it on my podcast many times, Bray whyite is could
be the next great character Babyface. He could the Dusty
Rhodes like Jake Roberts like character baby Face, not the

(01:14:24):
traditional but somebody there that you know is a is
a very intriguing character. But you know, and I think
the fans were wanting that, but that's not what they got.
But maybe they'll get it down the road. Who knows.
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:14:37):
And I had an issue with with part of what
you said there. Now I don't have an issue with
what you said, but the scenario that you're talking about
in that a week after the League of Nations forms,
they're in the ring opposite of another currently heeled faction.
I mean, you want you need to It's like same
with Charlotte turning heel apparently and then being in there

(01:14:58):
with Miz and Paige. You not being given a chance
to really invest yourself in them as the wearing the
away team jersey before you now are being forced to choose.
Oh do I dislike the White Family more than I
dislike the League of Nations? And so I you know, yes,
sixteen is a big number, and it's got Byron's xt
and very excited. But I think it's more important to

(01:15:19):
establish the League of Nations and maybe let them cut
a promo like the Four Horsemen did six oh five
TBS on WWW Network, those shows where they established the
role each of them had, why they what their united
purpose was, the roles that each of them had. They
seem to be a team. I've yet to even see
Alberto de Rio even look at Seamus, you know, since
they formed this group. I mean, they don't feel like

(01:15:41):
they're a team. They feel like they're four individuals forced together.
And having the White Family come out, I think undercut
any chance for them to do that, you know, at
a time when they should have still been establishing their character.
So it's stuff like that, Jim that we've seen the
opposite work, and now we're seeing this method and it's
not working. And it's one of you know, so probably
fifty things you could clean up about Monday show that

(01:16:03):
I just think are the opposite of what history shows works.
And I just don't know why you try to reinvent things.
I mean, the NFL doesn't try to reshape the football
field because it's twenty fifteen. You know, there's a football
and it looks the same. In a football field that
looks the same. You know, they might change the lines,
they might add some graphical enhancements to the TV product,
but football is still football. You don't mess with that.

(01:16:23):
And I think WWE's messed with some of the tried
intro formulas.

Speaker 3 (01:16:28):
I agree, I agree, but so is everybody is who
has a messed with formulas? I mean, who's not kicking
out of the dts, who's not going into a forgetting
that their armed ran into the ring post a minute
ago and now they're using it freely? What company's not
doing that? New Japan sells better than just about anybody.

(01:16:53):
They're more logical than just about anybody, and they make
it easy to watch their show now also their show
and Access TV on Friday Nights is an hour long
and there's therein lies another of our issues we've been discussing. Well,
I don't know that any promotion, you know, you get,

(01:17:14):
you got. They got to do a better job of
mentoring the young talents about selling and and and not
having glitches and interruptions and uh in the in their game.
Uh that are just illogical and that take you out
of the moment. You know. It's I said this before.
It's like, I'm a big John Wayne fan, but I
don't want to watch them. I don't want to see

(01:17:34):
the eye takes them, had taken three or four guys.
You get him on his horse kind of kills the image,
you know what I mean. Uh, So you don't see that,
you see they it's called entity. You don't see that,
you don't You don't show he's an older guy that's
got one lung and that is still being a cowboy actor.
They protect him and you put him in and that's

(01:17:55):
what they did. And so I don't. I don't. That's
that's not protecting. You're faction if you're indeed really gonna
go with them. I don't think they're gonna go with them,
But I don't I don't know what they're serious about it.
I really don't. And I think albert o'dal rio should
be a babyface if you want a Hispanic star. He
he seems to have more uh more get up and

(01:18:17):
go as a as a baby face. Now I see
he's gonna wrestle brock Lesser in LA, he'll definitely as
to get up and go in that one out of
yeah sing a grizzly. But but you know that's that's subjective,
that's just going guy's opinion. But that you wouldn't have
normal booking, would not have put your new heel faction
face to face with another heel faction, right unless it's

(01:18:40):
going somewhere, and maybe it is, we're not aware of it.
But all I know is not unlike three or four
years ago in the Massive Square Garden when Randy Yorton
was working with Kobe Kingston. On that night, Kokie Kingston
was ready for his rocket ship push because he got
over with the audience and garden that night. Anybody can
look back to that one. I said, the match on

(01:19:01):
row two, three four, where how long has it been?
That night was Kope's night and the next week they
dropped the ball yep. So you got to listen and
you got to your audience is telling you something and
you got to believe them until until the talent improves it.
Their audience is wrong, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:19:20):
So I'm with you.

Speaker 14 (01:19:28):
Are you a fan of AW looking to sit back,
relax and listen to some like minded podcasters who share
your passion?

Speaker 11 (01:19:35):
Do you want to be topped off the ledge after
a segment that has you wondering what the heck are
they thinking?

Speaker 14 (01:19:40):
Do you want to join a discussion on what AW
is doing right and what they could do to improve?

Speaker 11 (01:19:46):
Then join me Joel and me Greg for the All
of the Conversation Club every Friday on the PW Torch
Live Cast. Fee search PW Torch in your podcast app
and subscribe to PW torch Daily Cast our streamer shows
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Speaker 1 (01:20:15):
We just got results in from our correspondent in Newcastle
for the NXT show. They drew about three fourths full building,
which is similar to what the main roster draws. So
that's a testament to NXT doing something pretty well. Finn
Balor beat Sammy's Ain making his return in the main
event match. Enzo and cast were very over and yeah,

(01:20:36):
so we'll have full results of that up at PW
torch dot com. But they just came in now. I
think the show just concluded and Sammy's Ain back in action.
He's somebody, Jim who fits that bill of somebody that
fans just take a liking to, you know, they in
a Daniel Brian type way. There's that organic appeal and
I think I think Sammy has a big upside and
might be able to fill in a different way because

(01:20:56):
he's a different person, but a similar slot is Daniel Bryan,
and it is it's it's tough watching Daniel Bryan express
how emotionally difficult it is for him to deal with, uh,
you know, the concussion situation and saying, you know, his
WWE career might be over because WWE might not approve him,
but he wants to wrestle some more. It just might
not be in w W E. Uh, It's it's it's

(01:21:17):
a tough thing Jim to be dealing with that concussion
situation for Daniel Bryan. And I'm not a doctor, so
I don't know if w W is being overly harsh
and Daniel Brian's being reckless or or what. But I'm
not going to look at it Daniel Bryan match the
same way if I think he's risking his long term
health because he just can't give it up as tough
as it is, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:21:37):
If I don't know if this has to be either
of him being uh you know, flip it with his
hell or WWE being too stringed it. There's no there's
no agenda for WWE to withhold allowing Daniel Bryan to
get back in the ring because everybody knows that he'll
help them if he's healthy. Right, But you've got to

(01:21:59):
go with if you if Joe Maron is your is
head of your your medical you know you're outside medical
uh sources, and he's examining this young man and saying
he's not ready or he can't do it yet or whatever.
Is basically it's a no no wrestling right now? How

(01:22:20):
do you not listen to him? How do you not
listen to I mean, what happens if Maroon says no
and three other doctors say yes, and then somewhere down
the road this injury the worst case scenario happens, and
then you go to court and you say so your
own doctor said this man should not be wrestling. That's right,

(01:22:42):
your owner and you and you for it. You just
you ignore his instruction and got other doctors to give
you opinions. It almost seems like you've won around to
other doctors until you've found something that would agree with you. See,
there's there's an argument that he made. So if you're
gonna go on Maroon, which is not Hey, Joe Maroons

(01:23:04):
has got a lot of uh, you know, a lot
of accolades for being really good at what he does. Uh,
And I don't know. I can't. I said this on
the podcast and this is my talent relation days. As
much as I'd love to see Daniel Brian Brian Danielson
didn't buy any name back in the rain. If there's

(01:23:25):
the chance that he's gonna risk his health and his
ability to get out of a wheelchair or to reach
reach over and pick up his young son or daughter,
or to pet his daughter cat, I ain't for it.
I'm sorry now. If he wants to leave and they
get his release so he can go to ring a
Bonner or some of the place else and any and
those companies are aware that he has this situation and

(01:23:47):
they're gonna they're gonna go booking because they don't give
a damn. But his health not bring of honor in TNA.
But an Indy will least sell tickets for an Indy. Well,
hell yeah, he said, he's gonna tell you a lot
of tickets. You're gonna make a good pay that night,
mister promoter. But just remember you're also going up with
this guy in jeopardy because it's been stated he's not healthy.
So I don't know. It's a tough deal.

Speaker 6 (01:24:09):
Man.

Speaker 3 (01:24:09):
I feel so bad for him because he had worked
so hard to get where he was and I'm not
saying and who knows miss over or not, We don't
know that yet. If I can tell you this that
you can't get enough Daniel Bryant from your company, and
he would be very easy for WV to keep employed
in a variety of ways, even though he's not a
restaur any longer. He's got too much to offer, in

(01:24:31):
my opinion.

Speaker 1 (01:24:33):
Another sponsor of our program is audible ay dot Com.
Slash Pro Wrestling Torch. You brought up New Japan. Kyle
from Lakeville. If vi ipmember emailed and said, I wanted
to get your Ross's thoughts on the qualities New Japan
prog Wrestling has that WWB could adopt in the future
to make the main roster mean something again. NXT has
some of these factors, but New Japan is on a

(01:24:53):
bigger scale like WWE's main roster.

Speaker 3 (01:24:56):
Thanks Well, really, what New Japan does is very old school.
They got there, they're they're they'll have pyro and the
pannels have you know, up updated and modern uniforms and
outfits whatever. Uh. But the fundamentals are what they do.

(01:25:18):
Everything is always broken back down into the fundamental foundation
of pro wrestling, and you have a fan favorite and
a villain more often than not. If you don't, you
have a very clearly defined personal issue. Their titles all
mean more than uh, seemingly other companies titles mean. Uh.

(01:25:39):
So their guys sell well, uh, they work well, snug.
There's so much old school principles about New Japan that
they're not They're not doing anything novel. They're not reinventing,
they're not they're not inventing anything new. They're just doing
They do a great job of spotting talent and training
talent and bringing them through the dojo and all that

(01:25:59):
stuff and then the and and preparing them for their
their their spotlight. But when they get there, the fundamentals
are in place. They can block, they can tackle. They
you know, they're they're sound fundamentally, and uh so I
don't think they're doing I love what they do. I
think their product is. I got hoped when I was
preparing to do uh Russell Kingdom nine last year. I

(01:26:21):
watched so many hours to take YouTube and red and
red and red, and I had enlisted people to help
me prepare all kinds of data. So so I'd go there.
I wouldn't embarrass myself, for my partner or anybody else involved.
So and I'd love to be able to say I
want to do it again, But there's I don't think
they're going to do the pay per view and for

(01:26:42):
America this year, or Russell Kingdom ten, at least if
they are, I've not heard it. And if they are,
somebody else is going to do it. So but you
know they're not doing anything. You talk about Mid South
basic stuff, man, but the mental stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:26:58):
Promoters and bookers create a structure, a narrative, feel and
vibe and tone. As Triple H talked about, pick the
right wrestlers and then get out of the way, you know,
I mean, hold a microphone up, let them talk, set
up a ring, and let them wrestle. And if you
pick the right guys, I kind of believe the more
you stay out of it and you empower the wrestlers,
the better off you are. Obviously, there's going to be

(01:27:19):
some guys who are younger, they're gonna need help from
veteran wrestlers or some producers. But in general, I kind
of think Roman Reigns would be further along if he
had never been handed a script and he was told
talk to Steve Austin, talk to Triple H, talk to Rock. Obviously,
anybody who made money Chris Jericho in this business get

(01:27:40):
advice from them. Work your ass off and figure it out.
We're not going to tell you what to say, or
how to stand or even where to look. Figure it out.
You got athletic ability, you got a great look, you
come from great, great family. Just make it work, and
I think he would be more excited about showing up
for work. Jim, is that unrealistic given your history with wrestlers,
or so you kind of have to hand the wrestlers

(01:28:01):
a little bit more responsibility to find a way to
get themselves over for it to work. How has it worked,
especially because you recruited that last great class of incoming
talent from the attitude era that carried double into the
two thousands, Was there in some cases with some guys
kind of get out of their way?

Speaker 3 (01:28:20):
Yeah, absolutely, And you get out of the way and
let them make mistakes. You keep them off the off
Broadway as best you can. We might not, you know,
in other words, you might. You might even have them
on TV all the time, maybe sporadically, but you get
them in all the live events, so they're still they're

(01:28:40):
out there on the road working. You can't hide them
in it, you know, there's nowhere to hide them anymore.
Like you said to another territory before you bringing back.
But no, I think you mixed some very valid points
that you want talents to come to work feeling a
little bit of pressure to do well, but no different

(01:29:02):
than they would they're getting ready to pay a big
ball game, but ninety be better if they're in their
natural habitat. They're there, they're where they are most comfortable.
They're going to learn faster, they're going to retain the
information if you can loosen the screws a little bit.
And for somebody to have to go there and memorize
a script on the day that they're going to deliver

(01:29:26):
it live or live to tape isn't good television. It
isn't good production are producing. It's not a.

Speaker 6 (01:29:35):
System sixty seconds.

Speaker 3 (01:29:38):
It's a system built for control and to squeeze that
talent's creativity down. And like I said, I know that
I haven't seen Roman reigns. There's been a couple of
times where he's been seemingly a little bit more relaxed
on some of his promos, but again, he's not ready

(01:29:58):
to do He's not the rock. There may never be
another rock. You know, Austin. Give Austin three or four
bullet points, he'll give you some magic. But guys are
doing that in the A w A. The guys are
doing that in mid South. You think anybody think watch
every road of promo for anybody. He'd give them a line,
or he'd give them a he'd give them a mindset. Yeah,

(01:30:20):
you know, dog, this guy's coming to Baton Rouge to
take your money and if you lose your done, second job,
can't feed your baby, can't fetch your wife that they will,
Lincoln is gone. So I would think you'd be a
little bit pissed off and a little bit worried. This
what the eventuality could be. So you talk mindset and
now the guy would kind of go process that information. Now,

(01:30:43):
go give me a two minute promo. And so somebody
like me or somebody else'll say this Wednesday night in
Baton Rouge, junkyard dog loserly down against whomever dog. It's
all on the line type thing. You know, it's a
must win situation or whatever he's going to say. But
you got to him quickly, and it's mine was already
ready for that intro. He didn't have. I didn't tell

(01:31:04):
any words to say, nobody did, but he felt it. Yeah,
and again it's back to the seven deadly sins. You're
gonna you're gonna you're gonna be paranoia or fright or
whatever the case may be, is going to be in place.
So how would you react? And I just that's how
I see the business coming back around and letting these

(01:31:25):
guys be natural extensions of themselves, amplify them a little bit,
but they're gonna come to work and saying, man, I
can't wait to get them to get out there tonight
because they're gonna get to be themselves and now I
have to worry about being somebody else.

Speaker 1 (01:31:39):
Yeah, absolutely, all right. Up next is VP member Darryl
from Eric Code four seven eight. Oh. By the way,
I will be on the Stone Cold podcast next Tuesday,
reviewing TLC with Steve Austin. Speaking of Steve, So if
mark that down in your calendar, on your on your podcast,
on your list of podcasts everybody to listen to, I'll
be on the Steve Austin Show. Uh, next Tuesday up

(01:32:00):
TLC if you missed it earlier. Just a reminder, we're
running our second VIP sale of the year. We don't
do these often, take advantage of it now. It is
a limited time offer. Take nine dollars off a VIP
subscription a one month, three month, or one year sub
It brings the one month sub down to just three
dollars in ninety nine cents. The coupon code is n
o V twenty twenty five as in November n V

(01:32:22):
twenty twenty five, and that takes nine dollars off when
you check out on our signup form pw torch dot
com slash go VIP gives you full details on membership
benefits and links to our sign up form. All right,
Dodd VP, you remember Darryl. Thanks for holding so long.
Please state your name or confirm your name and where
you're calling from.

Speaker 13 (01:32:42):
Yes, this is Derail from Georgia.

Speaker 3 (01:32:44):
Can you hear me?

Speaker 1 (01:32:44):
I sure, Kendorrell, yep, go ahead?

Speaker 13 (01:32:47):
Okay. How you doing Jr? How you doing?

Speaker 12 (01:32:50):
Wade?

Speaker 13 (01:32:51):
I have two questions. My first question, I think of
WWE asked like tread like halfstyles, clothing stouts when it
comes to n ring working the way they produce it.
Do you think that the WWE is being so forward
thinking and trying to be trendsetting and what they do
that they're forgetting about the basics and like how clothing

(01:33:14):
or hairstyles was cool in the eighties, not in the
nineties and came back to being styling the two thousands.
Do you think that the WWE should go back and
look at the basics and emphasize on the basis because
that could be the new trend that help out with
the struggling ratings and stuff up today. And my second

(01:33:35):
question is I also think that we have become as
fans as in the WWE and maybe the stars, so
used to giving excuses for a lot of the different
things or what's wrong, like the fans are not taking
and not accepting. Ratings are down all over and just

(01:33:56):
too many excuses. My second question is when do who
we stopped looking at okay, giving the excuses and start
trying to find solutions and start saying, well, if it's
not working, let's try something new. When do they get
to that point, because they have been doing for fifteen years,

(01:34:18):
opening with the twenty minute promo, you should say, well
it work, then it's not working. Now let's try something new.
I understand that. Start say we get scripted promos that's
holding us back or other stuff holding us back. But
they've been doing that for a while. When do you
stop with the excuses and it'll be like, well, let
me make it happen. No matter what happened, hand it
in front of me, I'm gonna make it happen. And

(01:34:40):
if it doesn't happen, then I have to take it
as it didn't happen and I'm gonna try something new,
put some blame on myself and just go ahead and
try something new. Those are my two questions.

Speaker 3 (01:34:50):
Go ahead, Jim, Well, I think that they're gonna they're
apparently doing a lot of research and market research and
surveys and market you know, all that stuff. If you're
going to use that research, I mean you're going to
ask for you got to use some of it. With
that question, I don't know when they're gonna Apparently they're
at a spot now. I don't know what Wave farms

(01:35:12):
about the research project that they have going ongoing than
I do. Uh. You know, I don't have to do research.
I can look at it and uh, at least I
could take this out. I took that away the business.
I can still figure out what's wrong with the product.
I can still figure out how to get talent over.
But you've got to have everybody's going to be on

(01:35:34):
the same page. And that's why I've mentioned on Steve's podcast,
and Way's going to be on next week. I was
on a couple of weeks ago. I think, and you know,
I don't know that my style would work in WW
these days, because I'm not a I don't I'd like to.
I think they have to figure out a way that
when the bell rings, that they're going to do all
they can to focus on the what we're seeing in

(01:35:56):
the ring and figure out a better way to their uh,
their other ancillary mentions that are parative to do and
are committed to do it a lot of a lot
of times, but find a better way to present it.
So that bell to bell, we're keeping that that bell
to bell time because look, I don't know, you guys

(01:36:17):
do what everybody does. How many minutes of masch went
bell to bell? Because you could obviously, can you not
keep that much time clean and just get talent over?
Build de bell? That's that's one thing that that's how
I start, is to tell the announcers when the bell
rings until the match is over, you're gonna focus on
the match and you're gonna get talent over. And uh,

(01:36:40):
that's how we would That's how it would be. And
but that doesn't impair me. It's not how you know,
that's not how they're They got so many commitments they
got to fulfill, and that that would drive me nuts.
So I don't know when they're going to change way
you think you didn't need yes events, when Vince says
we're gonna do this now like we went to the
added era, we changed our attire. The announcers went in

(01:37:02):
suits and all that stuff. We were wearing denim jackets
and regular shirts and you know, uh, we changed the
whole deal. The way the look of the announcers that
are our our train of thought, our verbiage, you know,
were was a little bit more coarse, uh, you know,
and it was the storylines were largely reality based, so

(01:37:28):
we didn't see that coming. He didn't give everybody a
notice I gause here. It was just, hey, here's what
we're gonna start doing. We're going a different direction. Boom.
So he's like any other visionaries like Ted Turner's, like
Bill Washington, a lesser degree. When it hits them, they'll
pull the trigger. And one that's going to be is
only one person knows the guy that's got the trigger,

(01:37:48):
finger on his finger on the trigger. That's simple.

Speaker 1 (01:37:51):
And he had the people in place to make that work.
That's the question is would you know because w w
at there? You know, when they were bottomed bottoming out,
they you know, shut down, took a week off, came
back with a bad updated logo and a bad updated
new color scheme and a bad updated intro, and it
was drab and gray, and all the talent was the same,

(01:38:11):
and the booking was even worse and it didn't work.
So it's not change for the sake of change. It's
change with a vision, and with the wrestlers and the
announcers in place, and a director and a producer who
have a new vision on how to present the product.
That all comes together. And that's what I hope can happen.
I think people are sampling raw who are WWE fans

(01:38:33):
but not watching three hours every week, But if they
tune in, maybe they don't watch for three four weeks
in a row, but if they tune in and they
see a show that looks and feels different, and the
people that they were cheering who weren't getting pushed are
now getting pushed, and the people who weren't getting over
are being positioned and slotted differently, I think you can

(01:38:53):
have a very quick turnaround on ratings. I mean I
think within three four weeks and be back above two
point five, because I think people want it badly. I
mean it's like that that that NHL or NBA NBA
arena that's not drawing, and then they get a big
draft pick and it and and a coaching change, and
an attitude change, a cultural change, and the fans are

(01:39:15):
filling the building again because they're on board. They believe
in it again. I think WWE fans are just waiting
for that moment and and it's it's absolutely possible to
produce it with the talent that's out there and the
money and resources w W has. It is that vision
coming together with like you said, Jim wake Vince waking
up one day going damn it, let's change. Let's do it.

(01:39:36):
You know, I admit it it's not working or or
I'm you know, whatever Scapegoady has, whatever reason, Jim, just
change and and uh, don't look backwards. Let's look forwards.
Here's our new approach and go all in. But you
have to have everything in place to make it work.

Speaker 3 (01:39:50):
Yeah, you do. They have the look, there's no there's
no elements that they don't have that they need, you know,
they they they they have good people. Their renounced staff
can do exactly as we've discussed. What if what we've
discussed is accurate and they have the skills to do that,

(01:40:12):
that's the least of my concern. You just give them
a different direction and go here and do this. But
then you've got to commit to some talent. You got
to commit to your players and get them on a roll.
You have to stop the back and forth and back
and forth. And it's that horizontal booking that that gets you.
You know, it's like walking three steps forward and walking

(01:40:33):
three steps back. You'll never reach your destination with fifty
to fifty booking. It's just it's just how do you
do it? And I said this about teams. The people
can relate to winners. And even though you're a Vikings fan,
you sure has had a lot more fun when they're

(01:40:54):
in first place in their division. Uh, you know, it's
more fun on that the Vikings in that when the
Vikings lose, right yeah. Oh My point is people can
identify with people winning. Do you win every week? You
sitting in and be on TV every week in a man?

(01:41:14):
But but if you're going to be on TV and
you're gonna be in a match, mega has some significance.
Let the announcers focus on the bell to bell of
that match and get both the talents that are in
the match over. Really good workers can lose and still
keep some sizzle if they're getting it if the announcers
are spot on and their work is spot on while

(01:41:35):
going down in a blaze of glory. So it's just
that none of these issues are unfixable, and ww's got
more of the resources to fix them than any other
company because they they're the NFL and everybody else's. It's
just got a ball, you know. I'm not that I
thought you like a ring of armor. You knocked them.
I didn't knock anybody. But if you're gonna, you're gonna realistically,

(01:42:00):
uh try to compare w W and Ring of Honor
and t n A. There's one, there's there's one WWE,
and there's everybody else. And and if you're a wrestler,
no matter what, son will tell you that nine. I
don't know if you'd agree with this or not. If hey,
I would like to headline WrestleMania, I'm in, Well, you

(01:42:23):
got to go to NXT first. I'm in. You know,
you gotta through to us at your libel and and
you're you're, you're, you're getting better every week. I'm in
that WWE Wrusselemnia. Opportunity is too too much of a
mistress that you can't ignore. And so they have all

(01:42:44):
the resources. They just got to decide We're not gonna
run the wish phone anymore. We're gonna run We're gonna
have four whites, and I'm gonna have Adrian Peterson back
in the backfield with four white outs. So if you
spread out and take too many guys out of the box,
I'm gonna get the ball to a d If you
try to cram the box full, I'm want to throw
it to one of my receivers that you're forced to

(01:43:06):
single cover. We're changing our offensive philosophy. Multi million dollar,
billion dollar organizations do that every year. Look at all
the coaching changes. It happens every year. So being a booker,
which I don't really exists anymore to a large degree.
Sure it does in some places, but it's a modified

(01:43:28):
version of hybrid. That role has a short shelf life.
I've seen some of the smartest guys ever in the business,
and they were great bookers when they were hot, and
then their ideas they quit right and hit songs.

Speaker 1 (01:43:45):
Well, do youim imagine imagine if the NFL was year round,
how long would the great NFL coaches last before burning out?
I mean, if you had to do fifty two games
a year, fifty two weeks a year, year after year,
there's no way coaches would survive five or ten years
as coaches.

Speaker 3 (01:44:04):
Nope, that's that's right. Yeah, but you're gonna, you're gonna
state your case for the seasonal wrestling promotion.

Speaker 1 (01:44:11):
Oh, I'm not, and I'm gonna I'm not. I'm just
saying I'm for rotating book. I'm for just saying it's
not realistic to be able to go your round. But
I don't see a seasonal pro wresting formula working either.

Speaker 3 (01:44:22):
Good, I don't either. You can by planning ahead, you
know who you can leave off until you can Yep.
If you do long term creative planning, you've got certain talents.
You said, well, we could be let's take so and
so on the mix, and let's give him a month
off or two months off. I've been saying for the
last couple of weeks, either on my blogs or on

(01:44:44):
my podcast, and that if I were WW, I'd give
Dolph Ziggler a sabbatical. Yeah, and letting maybe sixty days,
ninety days. But when it comes back, we have a plan,
and we have we've got a new design on this,
on this h on this sports car, and we're going

(01:45:05):
to roll it out with a great deal of anticipation
and thought because we know that the car is shown
to go real fast and it can be really really
fun to drive. And so we're gonna we're going to
redo the marketing plan and let him go away. And
he comes back, and you introduce him back with the
you know, the with the teases and the vignettes and

(01:45:26):
the things, and and you give people a build that
don't build their anticipation to see him go. And then
when you're getting back, Uh, he starts winning, and he
starts and he keeps winning, and he wins and he
wins and he wins, and all of a sudden, he's somebody. Now,
I don't mind. This guy's a different different cat stuff.

(01:45:47):
He win one, lose one, we'll win one, lose two,
win one, lose three, win two, lose four or whatever.
So that's just it sounds so simplistic, and it is
in a large degree, but there's got to be a
long term plan in place. And the only way you
can have long term plan is for the primary decision
maker to say, I love that idea. We're going to

(01:46:09):
go with it exactly and then you go you then
you go execute it, and they they got the people
to execute it with that question. So but I just
I just think that again, the great thing about it
is that we all care, and we all want all
these companies to do well. I don't. I got friends
in every resting company that you know. I got friends

(01:46:32):
in New Japan, I got friends in Ring of Honor,
T and a WWE obviously, uh Lucia Underground. I got
no desire to see any of those people suffer or
do badly. There's plenty of room for everybody. But I
damn sure guarantee you i'd be I'd have my own niche.

(01:46:52):
I'd be booking things a little bit. I don't want.
I wouldn't want to be WW liked.

Speaker 1 (01:46:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:46:56):
Yeah. And some people can create of our sub down
lazy and unmotivated. They'll just well, we'll do WW light
and I there's only one NFL, there's only one WWE.
Let them do their thing. Everybody else can need to
find their own niche and their own style. I got
to hear a different lyric and a different beat in

(01:47:17):
my head when your show is on, then a watered
down WW beat. But you know, they're going to do
their thing, and we gotta do something different, and we
got to focus on different things. We got to sell
our product differently. And the one way you do that
is you have you have a one hour show Lapring
Bonner does and Lucia Undergrown does, or you have no

(01:47:38):
more than a two hour show, which Impact does. But
I don't know that's good for them, to be honest
with you.

Speaker 1 (01:47:44):
Yeah, where Bishall said when he came up with Nitro.
You know the idea for Nitro and how to approach it?
He told me in that Torch talk back in I
think two thousand and nine or two thousand and eight.
He took out a tablet, drew line down the middle, said,
here's what I think of when I think a WWE.
Here's the things they do and in every way possible
that was practical and reasonable. He said, how can I

(01:48:04):
do it differently with WCW And this Nitro was born.
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(01:48:26):
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(01:48:48):
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Speaker 3 (01:49:08):
Well, Eric's Eric, you know a contrary to what Eric
and are not enemies? Uh and a smart guy. Yeah,
but that's exactly the deal. You get this. You're all
you're all making you're making donuts here. Let's say, okay,
so what flavors of donuts does w W A and

(01:49:29):
what flavors can we make that are different? What process
can we incorporate that makes our donuts tastes a little better,
are a little bit easier to digest? Are our donuts
healthier than their donuts. Our donuts have much. Sure, there's
a lot of things you can do, but you got
to be different. You got to find your niche and
make it yours and stick with your damn plan.

Speaker 5 (01:49:49):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:49:49):
Anthony from Australia emailed and he says, knowing Vince McMahon
like you do, Jim, do you think he looks at
the product he's presenting today and use it as good
and promising or do you think he knows there's a
problem but is convinced he's on the right track to
not only thrive in the Rumblemania season but also for
the next couple of years.

Speaker 3 (01:50:09):
Well, that's really an impossible question to answer. I mean,
there's nothing wrong with the question, but I'd have to
get inside Vince's head to know that and be around him,
and you know that would be that would that would
be a one on one conversation. So I really don't know.
I think that the measurables indicate that there's an issue,

(01:50:31):
that they're problems. He's a very very bright man, obviously,
so I think that he's becoming if he's not been aware,
he's becoming more aware. If they're doing organized and spending
big money on research and all us getting all this
data they're accumulating all this data. They're not spending all

(01:50:51):
that money without his approval. And you can't get this
research done like they're doing with these focus groups and things,
the various things are doing. That stuff's not cheap. You
might find ten thousand wrestling fans that will do it
for nothing, but you still got to stage it and
do it and all that stuff. So there's a big
investment being made in the research. And if they're doing

(01:51:12):
the research, and we think they are so obviously, that
would just me indicate to me that he's aware. Now
how they change it. I don't have any idea, but
I think this is quite aware that what they're presenting
is not working.

Speaker 1 (01:51:26):
I think some of those questions that they're asking come
across as being created by people who have never heard
of Mid South Wrestling or Bill Watts or the Monday
Night Wars and Monday Night Trohen Eric Bischoff. They are
questions that my neighbors could come up with from never
having watched wrestling other than in preparation for this. You know,
what emotions do you feel when you watch raw? Are
they the emotions you want to feel. It's like, I

(01:51:47):
don't want to go to the dentist's office, and while
I'm filling out my insurance information, have a questionnaire on
the next page going which drill bits do you like
me to use? How long should the novacaine needle be?
It's like, you're the freaking dentist. You're the ones who
are supposed to be the experts. And it scares me
a little when the corporate environment goes all the way
to the answers, lie in a bunch of mostly bad,

(01:52:08):
irrelevant questions, and then an answer is spit out. The
ticket prints out and it tells you what you should do.
I don't that's not the Vince McMahon that I knew
in the nineties. He's like, yep, we're poll driven, we're
survey driven. It scares me a little bit that especially
the questions are asking Jim and I mean, they might
get some good information from it. But the big solution,
the big turnaround, I don't think is going to come

(01:52:30):
by asking questions and then plugging in the answers and
having some ticket print out that tells you what to
do next.

Speaker 3 (01:52:37):
Yeah. Oh no, it's there's so much. You gotta have
an instinct and a feel for it. You gotta trust,
you get trust in those around you, and trust the
research of what they're telling you. And the audience is
overwhelming about one you know, complaint. You gotta believe that

(01:52:58):
what they're telling you is accurate. That thing, that's how
they feel, that's that's that's them. They're they're expressing themselves.
But one way people express themselves is it's really easy. Well,
you don't watch, you don't go to events, and the
quickest way because you get minted by many ratings. You
don't watch t D. You don't watch the show that

(01:53:22):
tells any show, any television network or producer, your ratings
are down. And we got to reverse this trend. Uh,
what we're gonna do? So you know, we're gonna shot
how we're gonna shock the audience back into caring. And
I say, that's kind of time to reshuffle the deck
and go with that theory. It's trying to try some
new things and not trying for two or three weeks.

(01:53:45):
You know, Uh, if you pull the trigger now in
some matters, you can really have those those issues won't
be war out and dead. Uh. By wrestle Mania. And
then the other thing that gets me sometimes is fan said, well,
I don't want to see brock Lesser and Roman reigns.
That was last year WrestleMania. Really that mattered him? See,

(01:54:08):
I didn't know. So even though you saw a piece
of one match a year ago, was it the mess
that bad or you just think you need something new?
Did it? You know? I don't think it was that
bad all. But if you're just in the mindset of where, hey,
I'm intetuous, I have a short attentions, fan, I got
to have something new and a match happened a year

(01:54:29):
ago is not gonna work for me, then we then
we may have a bigger problem with the audience's perception
of the product because you can't make something big, something
new and big every few weeks. It's impossible, can not happen.

Speaker 1 (01:54:44):
It's up to Vincent maand to create a product where
that's not you know, the fans aren't dictating what happens
based on those those whims. You know. Vince said on
the Steve Austin podcast on the Network that you know
he's blaming the millennials. Oh, it's millennials, And I hope
he's not leaning on that crutch too much, because I
really think Vince Is has thrived and been most successful
when he's decided on a direction and leads the fans

(01:55:08):
in that direction, as opposed to licking his fingers, sticking
it in the air and saying, all right, you know what,
what what's the trendy thing that I'm going to try
to latch onto. How many pop culture references can we
fit into our show? What emotions are we going to
evoke in and what percentage per hour per thing? He's
got enough, he should have enough gut instinct to lead
the fans towards a Roman rains Brock rematch and make

(01:55:29):
them want it, as opposed to worrying about somebody being
nitpicky or having some arbitrary rule about no rematches. And
that's that's what you want to see. You want to
see them not asking you what do you want us
to do? But instead listen to the fans interpret it,
but then you know have an instinct for it. Pick
a direction and lead the fans in the direction that
you think they don't even know they want to go in,

(01:55:50):
but you're going to take them there. Jim, we're closing
it on two hours. You want to take one or
two more calls and wrap up? Or do you got
to do?

Speaker 3 (01:55:56):
You?

Speaker 5 (01:55:56):
Do?

Speaker 1 (01:55:56):
You want to wrap up now? Two more and call
it at Night's good. I've enjoyed this in time as
usual fly Spy when we're on together, so in your
thoughts are so in sync with mine. It's uh, it's
it's reassuring. Actually, all right, let's go to uh make
we're popular and making Georgia today, John and making Georgia
v IP member. Thanks for rolling so long, John, What
have you got for Jim Ross?

Speaker 6 (01:56:17):
How's it going?

Speaker 5 (01:56:18):
Wade?

Speaker 6 (01:56:18):
I want to say thank you mister Ross so much
for everything you have done for wrestling big part of
product that I have loved for a long time, and
Wade four years plus of VIP. So thank you both
for everything you guys do.

Speaker 1 (01:56:34):
Thank you very much.

Speaker 3 (01:56:35):
John, thanks for your waite, thank you for the money
you've been with you and I thank you, thank you
for the kind words.

Speaker 6 (01:56:43):
Well, well, I I just canceled. I just canceled my
ww member of network membership today before the interview, hopefully
just because I want them to know how did satisfied
I am with their products? I unfortunately didn't get that
wonderful survey that went out. I wish there was a

(01:57:06):
comment box I could fill in, but I just wanted
to get your take real quick on the idea that
Wade has brought up before about the difference in w
W between them presenting matches and promoting them. I mean,
I can think back. I came into wrestling around WrestleMania seven,

(01:57:28):
and I remember I still remember the hype for the
undercard Tito Santana and the MOUNTI and they made me
care about that match because they hyped it and they
talked about it and what it meant for those guys,
you know, the Rockers and Haku and the Barbarian I mean,
those matches meant something even though they were the opening

(01:57:51):
matches on a card. And today they're throwing out you know,
Tyler Breeze and Golfiggler, which should be a great match. Uh,
and it doesn't mean anything.

Speaker 13 (01:58:04):
They don't talk about it.

Speaker 6 (01:58:05):
They don't talk about what the ramifications are. What what
is the mindset that goes into We can't talk about
anything that might happen for fear that it is not
going to hold the audience or or are we crazy?
And uh and that's not crushing the product from within.

(01:58:27):
Thank you, guys, and I will listen to what you
have to say.

Speaker 1 (01:58:30):
Thanks Sean, appreciate it.

Speaker 3 (01:58:33):
You know, I I wish the guy. I enjoy the
WW network because they're starting to use some of the
older stuff and uh, you know, a lotless material that
I worked on I've never seen again. I didn't see it. Well,
I never saw it back because then, you know, there
are a lot of I didn't have I didn't have DVR,
I didn't I didn't have a I didn't have a

(01:58:56):
VHS third quarter, and hell if I did, it had
been flashed in midnight forever. So you know, I'm a
lot of stuff, man, I didn't I haven't seen so
and I was so critical of my own work that
I was always a little bit reluctant to want to
listen to to it back. So I'm kind of enjoying it.
It's kind of nostalgic and uh uh, you know, kind

(01:59:19):
of a renaissance era for me. I was younger, you know,
a little different lifestyle. All that's kind of cool. So
I'm I'm sorry the guys cancel is subscription, but I
understand it's a little bit of a hey, look this
is this? Is this a way that I can get
their attention? Well, obviously it is. It would be for anybody.

(01:59:40):
I'm not encouraging that. I mean, you know, there's got
to be different ways. I can't understand all this social
media way can how can How would you suggest somebody
communicate with WW let them know how you feel about
their product. You go on the do you set up
a Twitter, a tweet? You go on Facebook? Uh? What
do you? What do you do?

Speaker 1 (02:00:00):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (02:00:00):
And you can then say all the hell with it,
I'm not going to watch it. All the networks bad?
Well no, all the network's not bad. Some of those
there's there's the programs on there with my wife and
I are watching it last night. That the reality show.
Uh and I bring it around Yeah yeah, yeah, not bad.
I don't hate it.

Speaker 1 (02:00:21):
Here. Here's what I would say. If you're if you're
not going to watch the network, then don't pay for
the network. I mean, don't hand Vincent man money that
you don't if you don't value the product. But one thing,
they keep track because I was encouraged. I was encouraging
people to watch other content on the network. On on
Tuesday this week, on the live cast. And I think
one thing you can do is watch an XT, watch

(02:00:45):
the archives, even if you're not watching it, push play
because they track it. Let them know what you want
because they get hard numbers back on what is played,
what is played back on the network. And and if
you do like NXT, and you do like the the
NWA World Championship shows from the mid to late eighties,
watching them does send a message that helps. But you

(02:01:08):
know there's a fan services email. You can google it
and it pops up, you can email. I know Adam
and the whole team at the PR department their job
is to look over that and summarize it to vincick
Mann and higher ups. And they listen to those emails.
I mean, people think WWE doesn't listen, and I think
they just they listen. But I think sometimes they listen
to the wrong people, or they listen to the wrong messages,

(02:01:29):
or they interpret things wrong, or they get a little stubborn,
like all of us do sometimes. But an email will
is part of like you're saying, Jim, social media, Facebook, Twitter,
but emails to fan services can help. And watching the
shows that you like on the network actually does register
and can make a difference.

Speaker 3 (02:01:48):
And when you interact, interact with some degree of the
coral is somebody. When I get a Q and A
and somebody says, hey, bat bastard, you didn't answer my
last question. Well guess what. I'm not answering this one,
right delete. Uh. You know that's why there's a block,
But I don't use it. I don't block too many
people on Twitter at j R s VVQ, but I have,

(02:02:11):
but I don't like to, but I will. So my
point is, if you're going to interact with somebody, don't
be a caveman, don't be rude, don't be crude, don't
be don't be a sick e fan. Just tell the truth,
say what's on your mind as succinctly as possible. Give
them a bonafide SoundBite in your exchange that has that

(02:02:34):
is real. And uh and stay you know, stay classy,
san Diego exactly.

Speaker 1 (02:02:43):
We are running our second vi i P sale of
the year. You want to take advantage of this. If
you've thought of going vi P or let your sub lapse,
had to step away for a while, it's a good
time to come back. Pw torch dot com slash go
VIP tells you about VIP membership. There is a link
to our order for and you can choose a one
month or three month subscription and you can take nine

(02:03:03):
dollars off any of those three options. The coupon code
is Nov. Twenty twenty five as in November Nov. Twenty
twenty five to take nine dollars off. That brings a
one month sub down to three dollars and ninety nine cents.
That is a full VIP membership that means you unlock
nearly four decades of archives, one hundreds of retro radio
shows from the nineties, two decades and more of podcasts

(02:03:25):
on demand, along with an ad free website, ad free
versions of our free podcasts, and a bunch of VIP
exclusive features, including podcasts that are compatible with the Apple
podcast native app and many other Android and iobs apps,
and also the new Wadekeller News bulletins that come in
three formats, a PDF that's great on a tablet or
a laptop screen, an all tax version which is great
to read on your phone, and a podcast version. These

(02:03:48):
run about sixteen minutes in terms of podcast length, and
it is a new feature. I'm running two three, four
times a week. I'm going to try to increase that
as my schedule adjust to this new feature. So check
it out. Pw Torch dot com splash go VP coupon
code NLV twenty five to take nine dollars off a
one month, three month or one year sub. All right,

(02:04:09):
I think this is an international caller. If I've got
this right, go ahead. I think if you heard the beat,
state your name and where you're calling from.

Speaker 4 (02:04:18):
Well, Hi, Wade and Jr. It's Jason calling from Perth
and Australia.

Speaker 1 (02:04:21):
How are you doing great? Thank you for going so long, Jason,
appreciate it.

Speaker 4 (02:04:26):
You're welcome. Waite and Jr. Let me just say it's
an absolute pleasure to be able to speak with you.
You've provided wrestling fans so many memories over the years.
And if you ever get the chance to come down
to Australia, I know that you'll get a very good
reception and I'm sure that business will definitely pick up.
So hope you can make your way down Under soon.

Speaker 3 (02:04:44):
Like I like, I think there's some folks coming to
rustle Mania from Australia that got in contact with me.
They're coming to my one of my three shows in
Dallas at the House of Blues. We're doing one before
and then one right after the Hall of Fame ceremony.
It's an eight minute walk from the American Airline Center
to the House of Lows. Eight minutes, it's good for you.

(02:05:08):
And then we're doing a post Monday night raw show
at the House of Lows that will start at eleven
pm and go to about one or so. But that
should be a real fun experience. I'll have a different
guest at every show, and I know some our Australian
friends are coming. I'd like to bring my show to Australia.

(02:05:29):
I'd like to sell my products, my barbecue. Say, if
you know some entrepreneurial food distributors, they can build a
business like we've built in the UK and Ireland and Europe.
Australia is working on JR. Sauce. We just don't have
a partner over there yet. So nonetheless, I'm shilling and

(02:05:50):
I'm taking up your time. So what was your question
that problem?

Speaker 5 (02:05:54):
Jo?

Speaker 4 (02:05:55):
I think I work that statement is beautifully to a
plug for you. So I think we're working well already.
So I'll see what I can do as far as
distributionship is concerned. But anyway, as far as the question
is concerned, I thought yourself will way too. You brought
up a great points in relation to the squash matches
and the time limits. I mean, one of the immediate
positives to that is that you won't have matches that

(02:06:16):
go across two segments. One of the things that really
destroys my suspension of disbelief is that when a match
goes across two segments, and then I think to myself, well,
if a match could end at any time, who's to
say I couldn't enduring the commercial break automatically. With the
squash matches in the ten minute limits, you know it's
only going to last one segment. I'm more inclined to
stick with the program. The other thing about the squash

(02:06:38):
matches is that when I was watching, I watched Mid
South Wrestling, and I have to say, for the first
time on the network, I saw the Rock and Roll
Express defeat a tag team with a double drop kick,
and it made it seem like a very important move.
I'm watching raw Dolf Ziggler DDT, Kevin Owens on the
floor rolled him into the ring, and that wasn't good

(02:07:00):
enough for a pin nowless, unless skulls have just completely
gone through this massive evolution over the years. There's no
way Kevin Owen should be out for a year. I mean,
his career should be over. So you know, the great
thing is that they could get back to promoting simpler moves.
And in just one more point in relation to Roman Rains,

(02:07:21):
I'm a fan of Roman Range and I believe that
the storytelling in the booking is letting down, you know, JR.
When you go over the years and you look at
how Vince has booked babyface champions the first time they're
looking to win the title, from Hogan to Warrior to
Brett to Savage to Share to Austin fatis the scene up?
You know, the very first time that they went for

(02:07:42):
the championship as a babyface, they won. Roman Rains has
gone for the title numerous times as a baby face,
but he's lost. So not only is he this cast,
he actually comes across like a loser, and I feel
that's not his fault. I would love to see a
heel Roman Reigns against a baby He fights kick as
Kevin Owens. I mean, you take my money now, fought

(02:08:03):
always fought against royman Rains, against royman Rains, he's going
to say, you know, i'mminey gonna fight on my time.
That is money for at least three or four months.

Speaker 3 (02:08:12):
Well, I think that Roman Rains is the best suitor
to be a heel that. I think a lot of
us agree with you on that one. And I got
no issues about Kevin Owens being a babyface. And he's
a kind of a character baby face too. He's not
stereotypical pretty boy, uh you know so, but a lot
of that I'd recast a lot of things. I still think.

(02:08:33):
I think bray Watts is a character of baby face.
The bray Watt's you know, he's a hybrid of his
grandpa and Dusty Rhodes and Jake Roberts. But people like
that defiance and the toughness, and they lived by charishy
to those guys. And he brought up a point that
I made not too long ago on one of my podcasts.
I would not have any two segment matches. I would

(02:08:54):
not interrupt a match with a commercial break. And now
that may test some law that you could have come
back and do a reset, because you got to make up,
you got to have a break, and you got to
have a segment to get to the next break that
you're obligated to take. I think on Monday Night Raw
they have sixteen segments and fifteen commercial breaks. So if
you had a twenty minute match, you got to mix

(02:09:16):
on that time back. So you come back and do
a reset. Maybe you get a shot of the guy
going to his locker room, or a thirty second recap
from a backstage an announcer or something, but you got
to You'll be back without whatever after. You know, in
a in a moment, you got to. You can't rob
Petter not pay Paul. So but my point is, I

(02:09:38):
think people when you are announcing a wrestling match and
you start talking about things that I'm not seeing and
and I'm going into business for yourself that We've all done,
including me, on more than one occasion, you disconnect from
your audience. You take the cord and you cut the

(02:09:59):
chord that has them connected the motion to the product.
The same thing with the matches going through a break.
It takes you out of the mood, takes you out
of the moment. And you know that's like somebody could say, well,
it's like watching porn. Well, there's no commercials in porn.
By the way, that's I know rumor has it. So

(02:10:20):
that is is that at the minute, it's like in
the middle of the football game, they have commercials. They
have to get in. That's why they take commercial breaks.
Sometimes they come back from a kickoff, they have to
kick off, they go to break. They're making up commercial
time and the referees being told from the TV truck
and through his headset, we need a television time out. Well,

(02:10:43):
there's no reason that you can't do that wrestling, there's
no reason you can't have a good, solid, you know,
ten twelve to fifteen minute match, go to commercial, the
match is over. Come back, have a shorter segment that
is well thought out, that connects you to what you
just saw and where you're going. So that's the segue point.
So it's the intersection we're going to left and right

(02:11:05):
or straight ahead.

Speaker 1 (02:11:06):
Well, another way to put it, Jim is defined matches
as what happens in the ring is so important you
couldn't possibly cut away to a commercial. By cutting away
from two commercial breaks during the match, they're sending the
message to viewers this is less important than the things
we don't interrupt. I don't remember ever WWE interrupting a
twenty minute promo and going away for three minutes and

(02:11:28):
coming back and the guy still talking. But they do
it eight times perah or six times per raw. I mean,
what kind of message does that send about what ultimately
should be the most important thing on a show?

Speaker 3 (02:11:39):
Well's I don't agree with that that philosophy. It tells
you that obvious you answered your own question. It prioritizes
that talking is more important than wrestling and physicality. And
I still think that people tune in to a wrestling show.
And I know this may be old school, and you
can certainly tweet me at JRSBGQ that I'm a little stodgy,

(02:12:06):
crotchety old geek that you know that I believe that
people turned into a wrestling show to watch wrestling, and
that should be the entree. And now, can you have
appetizers and dessert? And you know, yeah, hell yeah, finger food,
No doubt, sure you can't. But the entree is what

(02:12:27):
happens in the ring, Bell de Belle. More often than not,
there's always the accession to the rule if it's good stuff.
But having a long talk, I don't think that people
want to hear long talk. I don't know that there's
anybody in wrestling that I want to go out here,
do it twenty minutes. Anybody that can bring in Well,
what about Rock? You couldn't say that about Stone Coal.

(02:12:50):
He's your buddy, Stone Cold. If I tell you he
did he could Could he eat Rock? Do twenty minute
from both? Yeah, if they had an issue. They're both
in the they can do twenty minutes easy. But you know,
I don't know how often that works anymore. I think
our tension span is shortened and the skill set of
the talents is not quite where it used to be,

(02:13:12):
and that in that regard across the board, and it's
not necessary to talk that long. So that's but I
would not have a match being interrupted by commercials, and yes,
that inherently changes the feel, the look, and the texture
of the show. I'm not so sure that my first
thing out of the box would be see I don't
know that you have to set the scene the segment

(02:13:34):
one for the night. I think he set the scene
last week for what's going to happen tonight, and that
happens now, then you can come back when that match
is over in the next segment and then set the
scene with your promo or what's going to happen tonight.
There's a lot of ways to look at it, but
it's system matter of you know, putting a new code
of paint on the car and turning up the engine,

(02:13:54):
and that the genre is still going to survive. And
I think we've shown on these two hours we talked
that there's a lot of people that still care, and
we all care, and if I were WW, I'd rejoice
in the fact that so many people care about their
product enough to invest this much time. Hey, well, I've
got to check from in a long time. I just

(02:14:16):
gave you two hours of my thoughts on you know,
addressing some of the issues with the brand, and all
my ideas may not work, probably not honestly, but you know,
to make any of them work, there's got to be
a commitment from the company that this is where we're going,

(02:14:36):
and you've got to get that nucleus of talent that
you're going to protect and build. And that is not
you know, being a five hundred hitters great in baseball
makes yourself a lot of money, a lot of money,
but that ain't they that's not wrestling, that's not what
we're going on here. So it's a. It's a it's

(02:14:59):
still a labor level from me, and I'm still passionate
about it. And I again it sounds, you know, a cliched,
but you know, when you're a fan, are you really
a fan? If you're a fan, you want things to
get better and you're going to try to figure out
solutions and how you communicate. Just like you said, I
wouldn't aware that that email address you missed earlier. I
didn't know they had that. I know Adam, I know

(02:15:19):
I know Adam Hopkins and he's a hard worker, a
good guy. But I didn't know they you know, they
he had a place where could send an email. I
don't know. We got Twitter, you got Facebook. But there
are ways to communicate with them that they are noted.
They're you know, they're they're they're putting down on paper.
So and hopefully some of those ideas will be good

(02:15:40):
ones and they'll uh stimulate change changes. Change is not
always a bad thing.

Speaker 15 (02:15:54):
I'm Kelly Wells, host of the Seven Star Podcasts, the
new Ongoing Torch show covering the world New Japan pro wrestling.
We'll drop new episodes as major shows and noteworthy events dictate,
and I'm Chris Lansdowe join us as we cover the
ever changing landscape of New Japan as they navigate an
era with no lack of talent, but.

Speaker 3 (02:16:14):
I really need to create some new styles.

Speaker 16 (02:16:16):
You can stream the new seven Stop podcast now from
Pro Wrestling Talk.

Speaker 1 (02:16:31):
Jim, I agree, and I think we're probably in store
for some change sooner than later, if things are going
to turn around. I sure hope so. And I, Jim,
appreciate your time two hours plus a great insight. I
think you speak with a level of authority mixed with
experience and passion that is always refreshing on this program.

(02:16:52):
And I'm I'm glad that I agree with you pretty
much item for item. Like I said, it's reaccurring.

Speaker 3 (02:17:00):
I appreciate that. But if you didn't agree with me,
there wouldn't be any argument. Hey, well, if I'm ever
going to disagree with somebody while you're doing your thing
with Stone Cold, when people go to podcast one and
listen to you on stone Clods podcasts, same place, you
can listen to mine with Vince Ruso, and that'll be
very interesting. Now, we're not enemies, but you know, part

(02:17:21):
of the charm of having them on my podcast are
the numbers that he brings and the fact that we
don't agree, but we agree to disagree. It's actually civil
conversation and debate because you and I have a different
philosophy on the restling business. And that certainly does not
mean he's wrong. It just means that, you know, hey,

(02:17:42):
he also likes the San Francisco Giants. I'm not a
fan of Giants. I'm not an anti Giants, but I mean,
I still, you know, I love the days of Mickey Mantel.
I'll come. I'm still comes with a k a Yankee
hanger on. So, but that doesn't mean anything. Then we
have we love we love the game, but we love

(02:18:03):
different teams. We love the game, but we love different
styles of the game. And so I think as long
as we can all communicate in a civil manner, we're
better off. And uh, you know, so I'm gonna I'm
going to leave the business whenever that is when that
when that that tweet is the accurate and JR. Is
no longer around, just like I came in as a fan.

(02:18:27):
And if I get to work in wrestling again at
any level, you'll hear exactly what I am addressing. I'm
going I can I want to. I would love to
do wrestling or my strengths of what I have learned
to do can be utilized. But do I want to
go back and road every week? No? Do I want

(02:18:48):
to pass? So I may want my cake and eat
it too, I think, And it may not be possible,
but I'd love to be able to call wrestling to
where you're you're calling the match and you're in. You're
respecting the talent by what they're doing, by keeping the
focus and not allowing your words to disconnect the audience
emostally from what they're seeing here. One thing see another

(02:19:10):
equals disconnect and people don't remember that will or fail.
So but I appreciate you having me on and let
me shamelessly plug all my shopping mid of everything, JR.
You think that the next thing is going to be
I'm gonna have a charity benefit for myself. I really
don't need one. I just like staying busy and podcasting

(02:19:34):
in the Twitter account and working on the book and
our website. As you got questions more questions, you can
always hit me at my site jrsvrbq dot com and
there's a little icon there. Email me. You take your
email and if your question is good, there's not a

(02:19:55):
soliloquy or you know the ten commandments, I'll probably answer it.
I answer more often than not, So have at it,
and you're welcome to try it, and we'll appreciate you
the traffic. So but thank you, rade, and keep up
the good work. And see it's good to hear. Even
when think about our nation when we went into the

(02:20:17):
Great Depression, there were some people during the Great Depression
that became very wealthy, right, right, yes, well, I mean
the course of nature, the course of business indicates certain
things and will give you certain opportunities. So like, if
you're a construction guy there's a depression, you might have

(02:20:40):
a great cause for not building mansions but building low
cost housing, right, and get wealthy.

Speaker 1 (02:20:46):
I've gotten a lot of emails, more than I can
remember in any short span of time, of people telling
me they're VIP members. They follow the wrestling industry through
my podcasts as VIP members peterdutorch dot Com, slash Go VIP,
and they don't watch wrestling, or they watch it very selectively,
but they are addicted to following it through podcasting because
they fit that into their schedules and they like the

(02:21:07):
way we cover it, and they're just waiting to hear
from us at the torch. When is a good time
to turn the TV on again? And you know, we
don't need uh, we don't need two million people subscribing
to to do well as a business. And so we
have a group of passionate fans who like our analysis
but don't aren't necessarily watching at the same pace that

(02:21:28):
they used to.

Speaker 3 (02:21:30):
I can understand that. So the bottom line is we've
established we all care, and I hope that I got
nothing but to support. I'm going to watch I'm watching
t LC very with a trained critical eye, and I
want to be entertained. I want to be excited. I
want a surprise or two. And I don't want to

(02:21:51):
roll my eyes, and I don't want to get up
and go make a sandwich during someone's long promo. I'd
like to you know, I'm going to watch it with
a purpose. Then I'm going to talk about it next
week on our podcast is like You are So, And
I'll listen to you and Steve if you listen to
Brusso and myself, and we'll see how close we are
in our opinions.

Speaker 1 (02:22:10):
It seems good that's a deal. That's a deal.

Speaker 3 (02:22:13):
Yeah, it's good for business. It's just to talk about it.
So anyway, thanks for having me on and I appreciate
everybody listening and calling in, and maybe we can do
this again sometime. And it's nice to be interacted with
the fans. I really enjoy that. That's why my q
and as are such a blast to do, because you're
there with them. And by the way, ticketmaster dot Com
has tickets for my three shows in Dallas, and even

(02:22:36):
though the VIP tickets sold out the first day, there
are still a lot of tickets remaining, so you're not
too late. And they started twenty bucks, so I think
that's fairly priced.

Speaker 1 (02:22:45):
I do too. That's one of the things that I
heard on the Mid South show I watched when they
were promoting the Jim Crockett I think it was a
Jim Crockett taking turin, but one of and they're talking
about you've got the tickets are priced so fairly. You
know that it's affordable for anybody to go, and I
think fans appreciate that too. You know, everybody wants to
be to be treated fairly if they have a passion
for something, and they want to attend that they're not.
They don't feel fleeced.

Speaker 3 (02:23:05):
So we all like value. We all like value, and
it's a it's a you know, we believe all of
our products have good value what their price for. But
that ticket's going to be uh, it's going to be
a very unique event there at the House of Losing Dallas.
And uh, you know, they serve alcohol, so the crowd
gets a little rowdy. That's not bad. They got a

(02:23:27):
kitchen so you can feed them. And we're right there
eight minutes from the side of the Hall of Fame
induction ceremony and the side of raw so we can't
make it any easier. And it's it's the nicest venue
downtown in Dallas. So it'll be fun and we'll see
a lot of the folks there, I hope, and it'll

(02:23:47):
be a be a good experience. Until then, everybody has
a very happy holiday. Uh and uh do nice things
for people, and don't take this wrestling conundrum to seriously.
I'm sure there are other things in your life that
probably need to be prioritized a little above you're feeling
on wrestling right now. But it's still good that you

(02:24:11):
still have the passion for it. Whether you watch or
you don't watch, you'd like to be able to watch again.
And I think those times or are going to come.
I think those things, those things will happen. I just
I'm fully positive believing that the rest sing will fix
its own self because at some point they'll listen very
closely to what the audience is saying and how they're responding,

(02:24:33):
and over of course the term time, it's always worked
out well.

Speaker 1 (02:24:36):
So the worst things I get, the worst things get,
the less promoters have to lose, and the more adventurous
and open minded they tend to become. You know, when
things are going okay, you get conservative, you squeeze harder
on the money you have, But when you have no money,
you take a lot of chances, and you're willing to
take chances in life. And I think that's the same
way with promoting. One of the lowest periods was the

(02:24:57):
three years right before Monday Night wore money Night Rover
some money and I wrot. You know that three year
period was a real down period. So yeah for.

Speaker 3 (02:25:05):
Us, yeah, I remember that, Uh getting my my lot,
I was getting cuts and pay It was very serious.
So you know, those of us that make a living.
I made a living at it. It was very it
was a really a sensitive matter, so you know, we
had to make changes and Thence decided, you know that

(02:25:27):
that's that Survivor series in Montreal, flip the switch under,
you know, tough terms, no doubt, but I think, uh,
what happened in Montreal was a big step in the
in the attitude error direction. Been my feeling, and I
may be wrong. That's it's like we started foraching things
differently at that point in time. But we could talk

(02:25:49):
about that one of these days. And until then, everybody
have happy holidays. Wait, thank you for the time, and
let me plug my stuff. Uh, and I've it's been.
It's been fun. I always talked top of the fans.
Always a great experience and talking to you not so
much kidding.

Speaker 1 (02:26:05):
Who was waiting for that, Jim? Thank you for your time.
I've got before people hang up or push stop the fan.
The email for w W since we talked about it
is fan Services at WWE Corp dot com. Fan Services
at WWE corp dot com. They do not want storyline ideas,
character development ideas, scripts, marketing or business it's or ideas

(02:26:25):
and proposals it's just a place to give them some
feedback about their programming or their superstars and divas. That's
how they put it so.

Speaker 3 (02:26:33):
And be plus say oh it's another crackpot, because then
your comments are become meaningless by your own writing, you
become you newter yourself. Don't don't do that, go detect
the high road, but express yourself honestly, but do it
in a professional manner. And then I'm going to say, well,

(02:26:54):
this guy's got this person's got some brains. I'm want
to I want to read the rest of their their
their situation, their their critique.

Speaker 1 (02:27:01):
We don't know, Jim. We have nothing to worry about. Our
All the live cast listeners are not crackpots. We don't
have it.

Speaker 3 (02:27:08):
Agree, I'm sure you do.

Speaker 1 (02:27:11):
Thanks Jim, We'll talk to you soon.

Speaker 3 (02:27:13):
Okay, take care your holidays.

Speaker 1 (02:27:15):
Thank you, Happy holidays to you. Thanks everybody for joining us.
It's been a fun show. We appreciate you sticking with
us on mega loong edition of the PW Torch Live
Cast and a good one. Always great to have Jim
Ross on the program. Thanks everybody. Tomorrow, Bruce Mitchell and
Travis Bryant talk about the weekend wrestling starting at seven
Eastern right here at PW torchlivecast dot com. If you

(02:27:43):
missed it earlier, just a reminder, we're running our second
VIP sale of the year. We don't do these often,
take advantage of it now. It is a limited time offer.
Take nine dollars off a VIP subscription a one month,
three month, or one year sub It brings the one
month sub down to just three dollars in ninety nine cents.
The coupon code is Nov twenty twenty five as in
November Nov twenty twenty five, and that takes nine dollars

(02:28:05):
off When you check out on our signup form PW
torch dot com slash go viip gives you full details
on membership benefits and links to our sign up form.
Invite you to email the show with feedback or questions
or comments. That email address is Wadekeller Podcast at pwtorch
dot com. That's Wadekeller Podcast at PW toorch dot com.

(02:28:25):
Also welcome your feedback on Twitter. Even follow us on
Twitter at PW torch and follow me at the Wadekeller
That's at PW Torch and at the Wadekeller.

Speaker 16 (02:28:37):
Searching for more great pro wrestling talk, then join me
Jason Powell host them the three weekly Pro Wrestling Boom Podcast.
Each week you'll hear the latest news and analysis from
me and my team at Pro Wrestling dot need along
with other pro wrestling media members. Plus, the Pro Wrestling
Boom Podcast features long form interviews with notable names in
the pro wrestling industry. Subscribe and itunestit your downcast and

(02:28:59):
all your favorite second Darry apps, or visit us directly
at PW boom dot com. Once again, that's pw boom
dot com.

Speaker 1 (02:29:08):
Thanks for listening to our podcast. Did you know we
also have a website pwtorch dot com. Daily news updates, editorials,
and my live TV coverage covering Raw, Dynamite and SmackDown
and my live pay per view coverage for WWE and AEW.
Create a tab or bookmark make it a daily stop.
Visit us throughout the day every day to keep up
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Speaker 9 (02:29:32):
Meet an extra dose of positivity in your wrestling podcasts,
will come join me Alan fourrel Over in the Progress
Paradise at pterew torch VIP. As we mask on the
bright side of wrestling and focus on some of the
great matches and shows from around the world, be it US, Japan,
Europe or Mexico. There's always a place for wrestlings past

(02:29:53):
and the Paradise too, and we've done fun historical shows
such as the We Love Liger series celebrating the glorious
career of Juician thunder Light and our I Was There
When shows where our guests will join me to talk
about a classic bout that they were in attendance for.
We love variety and you can expect lots of it
at the Progress Paradise. Detailed pw Torch VIP subscription information

(02:30:16):
on a list of all the VIP benefits is available
at pwrew Torch vip info dot com. And yes, all
VIP podcasts are compatible with popular podcast apps on iPhone
and Android devices, or you can stream them directly from
our ad free VIP mobile site See You in the Paradise.

Speaker 1 (02:30:35):
One way that you can help us sustain our schedule
of putting out podcasts throughout the week is by giving
us a five star rating on Apple Podcasts. Just go
to Apple Podcasts and look for our Weightkeller Pressing podcast
and weight Keller processing post show and give us a
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Speaker 17 (02:31:12):
In twenty twelve, NXT transitioned into the developmental system and
ultimately the brand you see today. On the Torch VIP
podcast NXT Eight Years Back, we'll be taking a weekly
look at this page in NXT's early history.

Speaker 8 (02:31:28):
Join Kelly Wells and me Tom Stout from PWT Talks
NXT every Saturday as we go eight years back to
the day to track NXT's rising talents and why they
did or didn't work out exclusively for PW Torch VIP members.

Speaker 1 (02:31:42):
PW Torch VIP membership doesn't just give you add free
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(02:32:05):
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(02:32:28):
and special format podcasts that we've done throughout the years.
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