INTERVIEW CLASSIC (10 YRS AGO): Scott Hall and Justin Credible: Hall talks getting clean and Jake Roberts movie, Justin talks state of WWE

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 2 (01:05):
Now PW Torch and Spreaker bring you the Wade Keller
Pro Wrestling Podcast. It's time for this week's Interview Classic,
where Wade Keller interviews one of Pro Wrestling's newsmakers.

Speaker 1 (01:20):
Ten years ago. This week on the way Keller Pro
Wrestling Podcast, I interviewed Scott Hall and just Incredible. First up,
Scott Hall talked about his latest strides, fighting addiction and
also being part of Jake Roberts movie, and then Justin
Credible talked about the state of WWE, the need to
tiptoe around management, rolling with Brock Lesner, and more with

(01:40):
live callers for over an hour, So let's get to it.
This originally live stream on September tenth, twenty fifteen, and
it is today's wead Keller Progressing Podcast, The Interview Classic
four Saturday, September thirteenth, twenty twenty five. Loot Ho Rabia,

(02:03):
Welcome to thep W Torch Live cast. I am way Keller,
editor and publisher of the Pro Wrestling Torch weekly newsletter
since nineteen eighty seven, and also PW Torch dot com,
MMA Torch dot Com, and the corresponding free apps available
in the Android and iPhone app stores. It is Thursday,
September tenth, two thousand and fifteen, and it is Interview Thursday,

(02:29):
and I'm going to get right to it. I don't
want to waste any time with today's guests. We are
doing a doubleheader of Scott Hall. Also Noah Once says
Razor Ramone still known as that in many circles, and
also PJ. Palaco justin credible a frequent guest on this program.
Recently Scott Holly multi time guest. Mostly Scott is joining

(02:51):
us today to talk about a movie that I know
he's put a lot into and been a part of
seeing happen in. That is the trailer ford is available
at Jakethsnakemovie dot com. The Resurrection of Jake the Snake
Roberts getting great reviews from independent movie sites already, and
you can find out about local screenings in your area

(03:13):
at Jakethsnakemovie dot com. Let me bring Scott into the conversation.
Scott Hall, are you there?

Speaker 3 (03:22):
I'm here.

Speaker 1 (03:23):
Here you go, hey, Yo, thanks for taking time out
to join us today, Scott. I want to begin and
we'll bring h. PJ. Walker just incredible in conversation in
a couple of minutes.

Speaker 4 (03:32):
Here.

Speaker 1 (03:33):
The movie The Resurrection of Jake the Snake Roberts is
something that you got to kind of see in real time.
I can't remember when DDP was on the show a
couple of weeks ago, if he had said you were
really involved in the final product very much or giving
your input. Did you have a chance to see the
movie being made and have some input in that process?

Speaker 3 (03:53):
Well, I was, I was in front of cameras. I
didn't have any input on you know, the edit or
anything like that. You know, it's it's really organic. It's
not real slickly produced or anything. It's kind of like
a home movie. You know. They were documenting the journey
that Jake was going through. And then Dallas and Jake
reached out to me a couple of years ago, and

(04:15):
you know, I moved here to Atlanta and joined them,
and things have been going really great for Jake and
myself since then. And you know, I just wanted to
take the opportunity to I think that a lot of
people out there either have it in their family or
know somebody who suffers from some kind of mental illness
or you know, some kind of addiction, some self dispuse,

(04:37):
and I think that there's a message and just hope,
you know, never give up.

Speaker 1 (04:43):
You talked to Jim Ross. I think it was recently
for Fox Sports, pretty candidly, more so maybe than I've
heard you talk before about the post traumatic stress disorder,
And I thought it was kind of moving and touching
that that you said that other people shouldn't not travel
the same path that you did, And you also talked

(05:03):
about being focused now and looking forward in short term goals.
Hearing you talk about that with all that you've been through,
I think has and given who you are, has some
authority and I think can make a difference. Would you
mind talking a little bit more about that and what
you mean about people not traveling down the same path?
What kind of advice are you giving out based on

(05:23):
your life experience and especially what you've been through the
last two three years and kind of finding a different
way of a different outlook.

Speaker 3 (05:30):
Well, when I was a lot younger guy, you know,
I was involved in a really traumatic incident of shooting
in a nightclub parking lot, and you know, I just
instead of seeking like some kind of counseling or something,
then I just went through this whole kind of massa
think like now I'm cool, I'm okay, you know, I'm fine,
I'm fine. Just kind of held everything in for so

(05:51):
many years that along the way, I developed a lot
of bad coping skills. You know, I started suppressing my
feelings with bruze and bills, and it got to the
point where I was full, and you know, I tried
multiple rehabs and you know, nothing was really sticking for me,
because you know it was. It was actually when the

(06:15):
w W Wellness program kicked in and they recommended that,
you know, because I had been attending and participating and
in all the programs that I've been into prior to
that time, and they said, well, let's start trying to
treat the root problem instead of the symptoms. The symptoms
were this bad behavior, bad choice making, you know, you know,

(06:36):
substance abuse. But the root problem was, you know, something
that I needed to deal with it with psychiatric and
psychological help and not just somebody saying, hey, don't drink,
go to meetings. You know, that wasn't sticking for me.
So once I went down that path, you know, it worked,
and I think, I know there was a lot of
stigma with stuff like that, seeing strength and things like

(06:57):
had just but you know, I wish I'd done a
lot sooner. So I'm just my message is to anybody
out there who's suffering from some kind of stuff, you know,
don't hold it in, ask for help. If people offer
you help. This is why I struggle. People were offering
me help, but I wasn't accepting it because you know,
it was like, no, no, I'm cool, I'm cool When
I wasn't cool. I was early struggling. And uh, A

(07:19):
lot of that stuff comes out in the movies, like
you opened with, Uh, I just encourage people to, you know,
give it a look. You know, it's not some sil
Hollywood thing. It's kind of a home movie. But uh,
it's a shoot, you know, so that's kind of cool.
And I don't know. That's that's really all I got
to say. And thanks for having me, and I understand

(07:43):
PJ is coming on, so I wish him the best
and thanks for having me.

Speaker 1 (07:47):
Hey, Scott if if you don't, if you got a
second here, let me bring PJ in just to say
hello to you before you got to Oh, I guess
Scott dropped tops already. PJ. All right, Uh, Pjo, just incredible,
Welcome to the program.

Speaker 4 (07:59):
Hey, how you doing what?

Speaker 1 (08:01):
Bro not too much? Good to have you on the show.
I know you and Scott Hall are way back and
you've seen him through his ups and downs, and it's
one of the reasons that I was hoping to get
you on the program today too, especially with Scott's busy schedule.
He's just he's been pulled in so many different directions
promoting this movie and with other stuff going on with him.
But DDP worked hard to get him to pop on

(08:22):
the show here and talk a little bit about the movie.
But you've seen him go through ups and downs. How
much you were you were around him recently, weren't you?
Was it just last month?

Speaker 4 (08:33):
Yeah? Yeah, I mean, you know, Scott's always been a
big brother, to be almost like a father figure.

Speaker 5 (08:40):
And you know, we.

Speaker 4 (08:41):
We've shared, we've shared ups and downs, we've shared happy times,
we've sad sad times, we've cried, we've laughed, you know,
and and and you know it's very true. And he said,
you know, traumatic experiences in our lives sometimes cause these things,
and we don't even know sometimes what the root causes.

(09:02):
I think what a lot of people don't or do underestimate,
is how much sometimes mental health issues do cause you know,
alcohol abuse, drug abuse, and depression, you know, And I
think we just sometimes do those things to mask our

(09:22):
emotions because we we were either too embarrassed or too
macho to to go and seek for help, especially back then,
maybe not necessarily now, but back then in the wrestling culture.
So I totally understand. I was in the same boat.
I certainly never had anything as traumatic has happened with Scott,

(09:43):
you know, I you know, but it's still it's we
all have our own, our own issues, and I think
that's a that's a huge part of the healing process
and understanding why we do what we do. And you know,
a lot of people take the easy route and blame
it on wrestling, but it's not just about wrestling. I'm

(10:04):
not saying wrestling is one hundred and twenty percent.

Speaker 3 (10:08):
You know, not, yes it is.

Speaker 4 (10:10):
You know, everybody has some culpability, but a lot of
it has to do with who we are on the inside.
So I think it's a great documentary. Just before I
got on, I saw the the preview to the movie,
the trailer, and it's so compelling. And I know Jake,
I know Jake Dallas and Scott very well. Scott, I

(10:31):
know the mess and I mean I can't you know,
it's it's all true, it's all amazing, and it's all
very raw and very real.

Speaker 3 (10:39):
You know.

Speaker 1 (10:42):
You can support us on Patreon and get these shows
with ads and plugs, remove the Weaight Keller Prosing podcast,
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(11:03):
That's Patreon dot com slash p W Torch vi IP
and you can also upgrade to other tiers and receive
even more benefits through Patreon. Well yeah, and I mean
you could tell when Scott's talking about it just in
a couple of minutes here, you know, talking about it
not being really slickly produced. You know, I I just
knowing Scott as you do.

Speaker 6 (11:23):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (11:23):
And I haven't seen the final version of the movie yet,
But how do you think that he's going to feel
about people seeing that much of him? Because, I mean,
you know what he said to Jim Ross of that
interview about post traumatic stress and seeking psy psychiatric and
psychological help, you know, getting professional help for that. That's
a big thing for him, you know. I mean friends
of his will say he doesn't want to be the

(11:45):
poster boy for this kind of thing. But you know
he's come, you know, he comes on the show, and
he wasn't on very long. He wasn't able to be
on very long today. But but he's telling people and
giving advice, saying, you know, don't don't go through the
years that I did, resisting finding out what kind of
help you need to kind of get past some things.
And for as well as you know, Scott, and I

(12:06):
wish he could have stayed on to be with you
for a few minutes here.

Speaker 3 (12:08):
Now.

Speaker 1 (12:10):
When you hear Scott talk like that, does that surprise
you given how much you've you've you've been around him
through those ups and downs over the years, that that
he talks like he does now about his post traumatic
express indur.

Speaker 4 (12:22):
No, it doesn't surprise me because it's the truth, I think,
you know, and I hope he doesn't get mad at
me saying this, but it's all true. I mean there's
been times where I mean, he's hell, I've held him
in my arms, you know, and he's he's cried out
to me and vice versa. I mean, it's a very uh,

(12:44):
you know, I hate to say it's nothing like and
please don't don't misquote me on this. It's not like
our troops going overseas. But still we go through very
traumatic situations that are life changing, and it doesn't mean
that we don't deserve some kind of of health, some
kind of of of of somebody to lean on. And

(13:08):
I know WW is doing a great job now catching
up with it, but back then it was it was
nothing like this before. So I'm just glad they're doing,
you know, they're on the right path to to getting
where they they got to get. But yeah, dude, I
totally agree with what he's saying. You know, it's it's
it's not an easy world, man, No, ipecially for especially

(13:31):
especially for young men and women.

Speaker 1 (13:34):
Oh absolutely. And you know he taught, you know, he talked.
I mean I've I think I've probably done more time
interviewing Scott Hall than anybody. I mean we did six
seven hours about I don't know, ten years ago for
a really long form interview, and I mean we really
hit it off, and I mean just went in two
I think we did like two different three and a
half hour sessions and and I transcribed that for the

(13:55):
newsletter and he really got into things long you know,
in detail. And he's done the live cast a few
times and stayed with us like an hour and a
half or two hours, you know, a couple times and
took calls and really had a good time. He doesn't
seem now as open to It's weird like now that
he's kind of at a better place, he doesn't seem
to want to talk as much about the past. And

(14:16):
I'm not I'm not trying to do you know, amateur
psychology or the could you know, because I know his
schedule is so tight right now. But I wonder if
there's an aspect of him now. And I saw this
in the Jim Ross interview where he said he doesn't
want to look backwards. He wants to have he wants
to look forward now and have term goals. And I'm
you know again, I'm just kind of guessing in terms of,
you know, the idea of him not wanting to sit
down and do long reflective interviews right now, if that's

(14:38):
part of it. I know he's scheduled to do an
interview with Steve Austin. I think soon it'll be interesting,
you know, where that goes, because I think the the
places Steve has gone in his career are different than Scott's,
but as colleagues who travel the road, I'm really interested
to hear that too, you know what Scott is willing
to discuss with Steve about that and how it comes across,

(14:59):
because like I SAI that Scott at times has just been,
you know, willing to just spend so much time looking backwards.
And I kind of do wonder if he's at a
point now where he really just wants to look forward
and live in the moment and not look backwards.

Speaker 6 (15:12):
Wow.

Speaker 4 (15:13):
Yeah, absolutely, And we were all guilty of that. I'm
guilty of it to this day. I mean, sometimes we'll
get together in a room and we'll talk about the
good old days about you know, ninety six in Madison
Square Garden or ninety five and Boston, Massachusetts. You know,

(15:33):
we always seem to or you know me, you know,
when me and him worked at E. C. W and
Poughkeepsie at two thousand, you always seem to look at
the you know, the good old days, the days where
we were on top, the days where we were the
best in the world. And you know, and it's very
hard psychologically for an athlete to get by those things too.

(15:55):
It's almost like that midlife crisis thing where you know
you're not going to be that guy anymore, at least
on a full time basis, and it hurts. You know,
there's a lot of what people don't realize is there's
a lot of psychology that goes on with with not
just pro wrestlers, but all athletes, NFL guys, And just
watch a show of Hard Knocks and you see some

(16:17):
of those guys get cut and not knowing where their
lives are going to go and not being able to
follow their passion. It's it's just a very cruel bottom
line world. And then you know it's not for everybody.
And you know, you get your one shot to one
or two shots, some guys get more, and you know,

(16:38):
it's just not an easy thing to deal with on
top of what else, whatever else happens in life. It's
just you know, believe me, I still haven't recovered from it.
I'm forty one years old, you know, and I'm still
not ready to give it up, even though deep down
in my mind I know I have no shot with
any of the major organizations in this country. And it

(17:00):
kills me because my body, my body can still go. Yeah,
you know, I could still perform at a high level.
So it hurts. It hurts, you know, but it's just
the way it is. And you know, it's it's it's
it's it's not easy.

Speaker 3 (17:15):
You know.

Speaker 1 (17:17):
Oh no, no, it's not. And I mean you you
have been an open book about it at times. Scott
has been to an extent, although I think less comfortable
talking about it than you. And Sean Waltman too. Sean
has has been on the show and and done torch
talks with me, and it's just so forthcoming about what
he went through, and you know, almost kind of it
seems therapeutic to kind of just you know, speak really

(17:39):
openly about the challenges that come along with it. It
it does seem like there's less of that today than
there was back in the nineties. And oh, you know,
you know, And we've talked about this, Peach, and I
don't want to do a whole show on this. I
want to move on to some current events and other
stuff too. We're going to open up the phone lines
for everybody. I started, I was going to try to
get some calls in with Scott. I mean, he was
really a blunt and forthcoming and saying he just didn't

(18:02):
know how much time he'd have to be on the
show today. I just got the sense he's getting pulled
in a few directions at once this afternoon, But he
really DDP really wanted him to be on this week.
We're gonna likely have Jake the Snake on for the
full hour or longer next week, and we're gonna talk
a lot about the movie next week with Jake. But
DDP really wanted to try to get Scott to do
the show today, even with his busy schedule, to talk

(18:23):
a little bit about it. So thanks to DDP for
getting him out, even for the few minutes he was on.
But what is it about today that does seem different?
Because Peach, I wouldn't say the in ring style is
any easier, and I wouldn't say say life on the
road probably is in certain ways and maybe not in others.

(18:43):
What talk about the difference is today and being a
full time wrestler as best you can from not being there,
you know, this year on the road full time compared
to your day and what do you think, as kind
of part two of that question is contributing to their
being seemingly fewer guys you're hearing about with pain, pill a,
diction issues and that kind of thing, even you know,
alcohol problems and that kind of thing.

Speaker 4 (19:05):
Well, life was harder back then from a travel standpoint.
I mean, we were on the road sometimes twenty plus days.
I me mean, I've told you this before in certain
live casts. We've been on the road for thirty days
in Germany straight, every single day, different town on a bus,

(19:25):
thirty days straight with no breaks. And the style certainly
wasn't as hard hitting today. The kids are wrestling less,
you know, three four times a week. But I also
noticed that their style is a little stiffer. You know.
I've never seen more guys hard weight and potatoed and

(19:46):
you know, stuff that didn't happen in our day and age,
quite frankly, because we were trying to preserve ourselves for
the next show and the next show and the next
show and the next show. So I think it's just
a little changed. It changed a little bit in that way,
but I don't think necessarily it makes it any better.

(20:06):
I think, quite frankly, a lot of the guys, you know,
and I think a lot of it has to do
with the producers out there, the agents that are encouraging
guys to go out there and be a little rougher
and a little harder on one another. And you know,
back then it was just it wasn't it wasn't a sprint.

Speaker 3 (20:23):
It was a.

Speaker 4 (20:24):
Marathon, you know, in our day. And today they're just
trying to go out there. And you know, but that's
why you have more injury today too. I mean there's
always guys that are out with serious injuries. And I
think there's a lot guys there are guys with less experience,
being more careless, not taking their time, you know. And

(20:45):
back in the day, a quick example, if I wasn't
ready to perform a move, or you know, the balance
wasn't right, or something wasn't right, you'd wait that half
a second until I was right. These days they'll just
jack you up, throw you on your head if they
have to, just to make good timing right.

Speaker 3 (21:03):
You know.

Speaker 4 (21:04):
Yeah, there's just there's less there's less concern for the
opponent's body then there was maybe ten to fifteen years ago.
And that's not how.

Speaker 1 (21:12):
We were taking Yes, yes, well, uh peach, let's we
got some people on the phone lines and some we're
at it even since uh Scott dropped off. So I
want to give out the phone numbers and encourage people
to join us for a conversation here. People who are
regular listeners of the PW Torch Love Cast, No Justin,
just justin Credibles, our guest PJ plock ohe uh peg

(21:33):
still follow wrestling closely, have a lot of thoughts on
what's going on today, so we can certainly open up
the discussion about today's wrestling scene and the specifics, especially
what's going on in WWE big picture items too. So
if you want to talk to just Incredible in me
on today's show, give give us a call right now
six four six seven to one nine eight two eight.

(21:54):
That's six four six seven to one nine eight two eight.
You can also email a question to pe W Torch
Live Cast at gmail dot com. I also want to
note that the live cast yesterday with Pat McNeil hosting,
included Disco Inferno as his guest for the full show,
and Disco talked about the twentieth anniversary of the Model

(22:15):
Nitro this month and he from what I mean, Disco
had a lot to say about it, a lot of
memories and definitely encourage people to check out. The show
was a good one. A lot of people are talking
again understandably so about the Monday Night Wars with the
twentieth anniversary in Nitros. So if anybody wants to call
up and reminisce a little bit about that too, the

(22:37):
Monday Night War and Row versus Nitro, we're certainly open
to reminiscent and talk about that too. I do want
to note that the PW Torch Live cast is available
five days a week.

Speaker 7 (22:52):
In twenty twelve, NXT transitioned into the developmental system and
ultimately the brand you see today. On the Torch v
PEA podcast NXT Eight years Back, we'll be taking a
weekly look at this page in NXT's early history.

Speaker 8 (23:07):
Join Kelly Wells and me Tom Stout from PWT Talks
NXT every Saturday as we go eight years back to
the day to track NXT's rising talents and why they
did or didn't work out, exclusively for PW Torch VIP members.

Speaker 1 (23:23):
All right again, our phone number here is six four
six eight. The phone lines are starting to fill up.
Let's go ahead and begin with four seven eight, and
then after that seven three to two with a block
number and eight six five on deck. After that, all right,
four seven eight. Thanks so much for calling. Please state
your name in the city or calling from the real

(23:43):
from Georgia. Hey, Derel, what have you got for PJ
me today?

Speaker 9 (23:47):
Okay, my first question is just to ask PJ. Do
you think it's easier to get over to get over
back then than it is today? Coming off how it
seems like it's not for me, the people who's really
over how to fast try to take over so much?
That's my first question.

Speaker 1 (24:08):
Okay, Pete, you want to talk about that? Oh, hold on,
I put Pege on hold when I was doing plugs,
so let I gotta bring turn his mic back on.
Go ahead, Pete, I'm yep, now you're on.

Speaker 4 (24:20):
No. I think it was a lot easier to get
beck or beck over get over back then, just more opportunity.
You had more chance on TV Wrestling, Superstars Wrestling Challenge.
You just had more chance to showcase your moves, your personality.
You had more opportunity for the commentators like Gorilla and

(24:41):
Bobby Heenan to uh, you know, put you over and
and explain what you're about. And nowadays it's just two
three minute matches where the sole purpose is to kill
the times and get whoever's got to get over as
quick as possible.

Speaker 1 (24:58):
Yeah, the return of squad matches, where an announcer can
just talk focus, the announced team can focus on just
one wrestler and talk about them. It's such an underrated
aspect that's missing, I think from today's wrestling scene because
so much of today it's all about throw two wrestlers
in the ring and at the announcers talk about other

(25:19):
things other than that match, and I think having a
match where the sole focus and again it's not that
you do twelve minutes. You just go out there and
wrestled for ninety seconds or you know, two and a
half minutes, but the sole focus is on you and
it builds that anticipation for you again somebody else later.
You know, when WWE's looking at these little ratings, I
don't want to talk to you about that page too.

(25:41):
You know, the alarming drop in ratings over the past
week of SmackDown and Raw at basically twenty year lows
in terms of ratings. You know, I think they got
to start looking at blowing up the formula and trying
some new things. But yeah, let let's table that for
a little bit later in the show and let me
go back to Durell and look for a followup question
from him.

Speaker 9 (26:02):
Okay, my follow up question was just about to be
about the ratings, since the ratings were so low this Monday.
And this is a two part question. I know I
called into the Live so a few times to ask
about Dave Bryant, but did you miss a secondary start
of his caliber to help with the ratings? And the

(26:26):
second part to this question with how they put seth
Rawlins out there so much? Do you think this overexposure
is messing up somebody who could potentially be a big
time babyface are here eventually.

Speaker 4 (26:42):
Huge, huge, of course, yeah, way too much. I mean,
he's good at what he does, but just too much,
too much of anything there is too much. You know,
he has all the talent in the world, but you know,
when you see him out there for twenty minutes straight,
you know, and you're gonna get circk of him no
matter what he says. And it's not even no matter

(27:04):
what he says, it's it's what he's saying. It's coming
straight out of w w's creative mouths, so it's really
not even being authentic. He's just saying what they want
him to say, and it's just, uh, it just becomes
very mundane and very you know, he can get very
sick of that very quickly.

Speaker 3 (27:24):
You know.

Speaker 4 (27:24):
And and it's killing him. It's killing it's I feel
bad for the kids, it's killing him.

Speaker 1 (27:34):
D do you have any anything else? Did you? As
both said, you had a two part question.

Speaker 9 (27:40):
Okay, the second part is about, like I said, do
you think they're missing a guy like Daiel Brian, who
was I think other than somebody seeing a Parker June seeing,
he was like truly over because you can break him
back at any time that he said it a pop.
Do you think they missing something like that? And how

(28:01):
do they go about trying to replace a genuinely beal
a guy like that. Can they do that with a
model that they're putting out today.

Speaker 4 (28:11):
It'll be hard because that happened so generically. It was
just one of those things where fans just caught onto it.
They felt for him. You know, it was like me
was certain things. It was the right place at the
right time, and you know, that's that's what it was,

(28:34):
you know. And I think it's going to take a
long time before fans find a character that they're going
to feel that way about you know, so who knows.
I just think right now, the WWE is so formulatic,
it's just all about formula, and they're going to keep

(28:54):
getting the same results. They're never going to go out
of business. They're always going to keep putting on strong
numbers or decent numbers. But it's never gonna We're not
going to see a stone cold rock holgan era for
a long long time.

Speaker 1 (29:09):
Yeah, it's one of those things you just you can't
predict or force a boom period, but you can whatever
the farming terms are for rotating crops, preparing the field,
making sure the soil is healthy, planting the seeds the
right way, and then you just hope, you know, all
you can do is put all the right piece in place.

(29:29):
But I think the argument today is that they're not
you know, that there's too many rules that are limiting
who they're giving an opportunity to break out, that they
have too narrow of a vision, and they put all
their eggs in the Roman reigns basket this year earlier
this year, and I mean in retrospect, I mean, well,
now you look, they don't trust them with a microphone,
they don't really trust him in singles matches, and I

(29:52):
mean I think they've really lost faith in him. I
mean they're still pushing him to a certain extent, but
clearly they're not where they were in March now in
September on him, but he looked the part. He had
that size and that look and that pedigree, but it
just wasn't there. But meanwhile, they've gone through you know,
seam Punk got really frustrated and wanted a different type
of push. He left in great part because that frustration

(30:15):
and not getting accommodated to just get his mental and
physical health in order. And then he also had Daniel
Bryan who was mega over and granted, now he's had
some injuries that have kind of changed the narrative, but
with Daniel Bryan, I mean, they just resisted it and
beat him down and beat him down, and he kept
popping up and the fans kept cheering for him, and

(30:36):
he had that moment at WrestleMania, and had he stayed healthy,
it could have been something different, and it wasn't. But
boy did they resist. And then even had Kevin Owens
and Cizarro, you know, guys who maybe could have been
better than they are right now in terms of drawing
cards and as soon as I mean, they're two different
stories because Owens came on hot and Cesarrow's kind of
been up and down, up and down, but never pushed

(30:58):
to the degree that Kevin Owens was against Sena, and
I bet now they wish that they had a stronger
version of Kevin Owens to work with Peach. At house
shows on Labor Day weekend, the lineups were just so thin,
you know, I mean, just so razor thin. Once you
got past there's like one legit main event, two mid
card matches, and you know, four matches three four matches
that were just people who don't even make it under raw.

(31:19):
It was a stunt within the lineups where Kevin Owens
to me, looks like one of those big missed opportunities. Already.
They've defined him down and they have him scripted to
talk about how he's a fat guy. But it doesn't matter.
Like just I shake my head every time every time
I see him talk about that on the air. I
just don't think it's productive for him to just be

(31:39):
defensively talking about something that I don't think wrestling fans
are particularly preoccupied with. Thanks for downloading Today's show. Take
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(32:02):
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Speaker 4 (32:25):
Yeah, I completely agree until the until the WWE comes
up with something that is completely outside of the box
and innovative. I hate to say it, and I know
the majority of the fans that go to the arenas
and they wanted shows are children. But until we get

(32:49):
into a tad more bit, adun't orient show. I don't
mean creepy stuff. I don't mean dead bodies. I don't
mean just like you and I have always said or
Jason Powell, and I've always said, just real wrestling, a
real competition, you know, old school NWA almost where there's

(33:12):
like real emotion where people are in jeopardy of losing
titles and lose you know, losing eye. You know, maybe
they're going to break his arm, you know, and it
just it just needs more seriousness. It all seems just
so campy that I cannot buy into it. Undertaker and
brock Lessner they worked the hell of a match at SummerSlam,

(33:37):
quite frankly innovative because they were very almost u f
C esque, you know, ground and pound, stiff shots, working,
you know, working snug, you know, working hard. That's cool,
but they need to just find something else that's going
to bring in the adult male and and that. Yeah,

(34:01):
they're just not doing it. They're just not doing it
right now. They're just appeasing to the kids.

Speaker 1 (34:06):
I am worried. Worried is not the word, but I
mean I am looking at tonight NFL season premiere on
network television.

Speaker 3 (34:17):
Oh yeah, and I'm dying.

Speaker 4 (34:18):
I'm actually I'm actually working right now on my dish
net work. My wife's busting their butt trying to get
a you know, because we stop subscribing the dish, and
I'm trying to get this Patriots Steelers game right now
so bad before it starts.

Speaker 1 (34:32):
Yeah, well, you know you can watch SmackDown by default, Peach,
that's on tonight, you know. I think that's my point
is SmackDown last week a record low rating for that
program a non holiday. Granted it went up against college football,
but I mean SmackDown for decades, I had tough competition.

(34:56):
But Monday's rating under two point five. I'm hearing a
lot of back from this page. Let me put you
on hold again.

Speaker 4 (35:03):
Yeah, I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 (35:04):
Yeah, the competition is not gonna get easier. It's gonna
get tougher, starting tonight with NFL and then Monday with
Monday Night Football, a double header. I just, I mean,
maybe this is a low point. You know, it was
coming in and out of Labor Day weekend, and that
can play into it, but it was the drop off

(35:24):
was so much more steep this year than last year
for Labor Day raw and the rating overall was so
much lower than any Labor Day for twenty years. It's
it's really more than twenty years. It's just I am
I am not quite sure where they're going to land
as a low point, but I wouldn't be surprised if
we don't see some consistent ratings under two point five page.

(35:46):
And I just don't know how instrict Man's going to
react to that. And Kevin Dunn, do you think knowing
WWB management as you have over the decades and how
they work, and by the way, we're gonna get calls
to because we've got a whole long we got a
long list people on hold, So I probably dres not
getting more call quicker here, But I want to get
one more thought on peage. How do you think that
man is reacting to these ratings? Do you think he's
making excuses and or looking for scapegoats or introspectively reassessing

(36:11):
the way that he's doing things and try to look
for some creative solutions.

Speaker 4 (36:18):
I think he's not too worried, but I think he
kind of starting to realize that this isn't working. It
hasn't been working for a long time. He trusts Kevin
Done with all his heart. But Kevin done, and I
have no person. I mean I've said hi by barely
a word to him. This just it's not working. He's

(36:40):
a dinosaur in this business and we need somebody fresh
and really innovative to really take over. You know, the
executive producer Slash, whatever he does, you know, it's just
too much. He does a great job with a goals

(37:01):
and you know, doing the taking and doing the shots,
and you know, they do great television, but he's antiquated.
He's antiquated, and the stuff he's doing right now on television,
quite frankly, is egregious. It's egregious. It's egregious. It's not
what the ww needs, the top professional wrestling company, sports

(37:26):
entertainment company whatever in the world to be pulling off
this bologna. He needs, he needs more to go forward,
to bring it to a next level. And that's just
me and I have no personal no personal vendet. I'm
just saying, dude, you're doing eighty you're doing eighty five,
eighty six, eighty seven, eighty eight all over again. And

(37:47):
it's twenty fifteen going on sixteen.

Speaker 1 (37:50):
You know, all right, Well, let's go to a full
nine speage and see what our callers want to bring
up to us here on today's program. This is PW
Torch Live cast. If you join the show in progress,
be sure to go back on demand and listen. At
the beginning, we were privileged to have Scott Hall with
us for the first five or ten minutes of the
program to give a few words of promotion to the
new Jake the Resurrection of Jake the Snake Roberts movie

(38:13):
that is coming out. You can hear details or see
the trailer on that that I watched and our guest
here just incredible. PJ Blocko watched before the show too.
You can see a trailer on it, a really compelling
trailer that gives you a glimpse into the production values
of this. Scott All talked about that that this is
a really raw movie, almost like home video esque, but

(38:35):
a real raw look at what was going on at
the DDP Crib when Scott Hall and Jake Roberts were
part of it. For we're living there for a long time,
trying to just find a new direction in life. So
that next Sunday, or excuse me, next Thursday, Jake the
Snake Roberts is virtually locked in to be on the
show for the full hour next Thursday. Well, I'll be

(38:57):
confirming that it always working out on his schedule that
he'll be able to join us for the full hour
next week, but we'll be talking about it more. And
if you're intrigued by this, Diamond Ellis Page was my
guest a couple of weeks ago on the live cast
and you can scroll through the archives at PW torchlivecast
dot com and listen to that show. DDP is on
for about ninety minutes and a lot of it was
talking about the making of this movie. The trailer again

(39:19):
available at jakethsnakemovie dot com. And if you really dig
into the archives, and it's a lot easier for your
VIPP members can just choose the PW Torch Live Cast
interview section on the right sidebar. But we interviewed both.
I interviewed both Jake the Snake Roberts and Scott Hall
at length. I mean, I can't remember exactly. I think
Scott might have been like two and a half hours,

(39:40):
its two plus hours a couple times. Well, he was
living with DDP at the Crib and so those interviews,
those long form interviews with Scott talking about that experience
are available in the archives. The full versions are available
for VIP members. So there's gonna be a lot of
talk about Scott Hall and Jake Roberts this month because
of that movie coming out, and again from everything I hear,

(40:02):
it's a compelling movie. And the reviews from those who
have seen the movie ahead of time or by by
now are really positive. So I mean, just it just
it sounds like a mussy movie. So I definitely encourage
people to, uh to check that out. All right, Well,
let's let's go ahead and go back to the full nights,
and I want to prioritize here a couple VIP callers

(40:23):
who are on the VIP Express Lane, and I'll begin
with Scott. Excuse me, yeah, Scott from my New Jersey. Scott,
thanks for holding and thanks for being a VIP member.
Go ahead and uh tell us what's on your mind today?

Speaker 6 (40:37):
Well, first, Wade DJ, how are you guys? And just
want to start Wade VIP member the best money I
spend every month. And I'm really impressed with the new
blog and the video blog. Wade, really cool, the new
stuff you're doing.

Speaker 1 (40:49):
Cool Wadekeller dot com. Everybody check it out. I haven't
plugged that yet. Go ahead, Scott, Well it's cool.

Speaker 6 (40:53):
Well I was very cool, guys. Two things you know. First,
I want to just go back to what you're saying
about Kevin dot who is the heaven done in n XT?
Who plays that role? Because a lot of the things
we're talking about it seems like we see it in
the XT. I know it's only an hour and there's
so much less conference are putting out each week, But
with the squash match is just with as you said, TJ,

(41:16):
just the way wrestling was more wrestling with those NWA
hurting people and a lot more interesting things like that
more old school to me? Who is in that role
the Kevin dunrole? X?

Speaker 10 (41:36):
Are you a fan of AW looking to sit back,
relax and listen to some like minded podcasters who share
your passion. Do you want to be topped off the
ledge after a segment that has you wondering what the
heck are they thinking?

Speaker 8 (41:47):
Do you want to join a discussion on what AW
is doing right and what they could do to improve?

Speaker 10 (41:53):
Then join me Joel and me Greg for the All
of the Conversation Club every Friday on the pw torch
Live Cast feed. Search pw torch in your podcast app
and subscribe to pw torch Daily Cast or stream our
shows directly from pw torch dot com. Find full details
on the PW Torch Dailycast lineup at PW torchdailycast dot com.

Speaker 1 (42:23):
I reported his name probably earlier this year or last
year when I talked about the whole team there. I'm
drawing a blank right now on his name, but he
is somebody who Triple H really believes it, and it's
it's more than just one person, but there is kind
of a primary person there at NXT. And I apologize
Scott for not being able to pull his name up

(42:43):
right now in my head, but there is somebody there,
and basically, you know, I've said, I think that the
day that Triple H gains power over being able to
change personnel on the rawsmackdown side of things, I think
is the day that Kevin is no longer in the company.
And I think it would be mutual. I think Kevin
would be ready to retire at that point, and I

(43:05):
think Triple H wants to bring his people in and
make his own mark. Vince McMahon is very very loyal
to very loyal to Kevin Donne, and there's some good
reasons for it. But yeah, it's the NXT team do
a great job. It is just one hour a week
it's sort of an unfair comparison. I'd be interested in
what I'd be interested in what Kevin Dunne would do

(43:29):
with one hour of NXT for one month, and if
it would change the way that he does raw, if
then he came back, because I just don't know how
much of that product he watch watches Pege. Obviously, Triple
H has his own vision for what wrestling should be.
It's not an Apple Staples comparison. An NXT show that
doesn't need to draw money, doesn't need to sell house
show tickets. They're doing more of that now, but it's

(43:50):
not a must for the company's bottom line, and not
part of a five hour weekly production, you know, with
three hours around tours a SmackDown. It's a different circumstance,
and I get that. But still there's things about that
NXT show, and we talked about squash matches earlier that
that are that you and I PJ from talking to
you about wrestling so much over the years, really like
and appreciate, and it is good. I think that we

(44:12):
see that in NXT for people who are looking for
change and wondering if Triple Hill bring good change. I
think I put Peach on hold again because of the
background noise. Let me bring term Peach's mic back on.
Sorry about that, Peach, go ahead, No, I'm here, you
hear me. Yeah, sure, Ken, I just had you muted
while I was talking, just again because oh, no, idea.

Speaker 4 (44:34):
I think that the NXT format would be quite frankly,
a great way to go with a form of a
WWE or Matt obviously not during Raw and what have you.
But they have so many they have so many avenues
with the network, with other you know, syndications and all

(44:58):
those other stuff that they have. Really could you know,
with the guys like Zach right Er, I mean, they
could almost do like a television division, like a TV
title division just on like a Superstars or a challenge,
you know, just really just have those guys compete specifically
on that show. There's just so many I mean, that's

(45:20):
just a small example right off the top of my head.
They could do so much more and then slowly integrate
it into Raw once in a while, make a special attraction.
Just so many ways they like they've done with an
X Team. They really brought n XT up to be
a big deal on the main show of Raw and

(45:40):
even on SmackDown. So I think they have a plethora
of opportunity. They just really got to start thinking outside
the box. I mean, there's so much ways you could
that They've got to remember this. There's always going to
be the casual fan, the mom and dad taking their

(46:01):
eight nine year old to the shows. And then there's
always going to be guys like us, you know, the
real hardcore fan, you know, the nineteen to however many
year old fan who truly loves pro wrestling, not sports entertainment.
And they could really capture all of it in one bubble,

(46:22):
and I think they're just so stubborn sometimes in trying
to do it. I think they have an unlimited opportunity,
with a network behind it, to really just give everybody
a little bit of a taste and make everyone happy.
They could run this entire game, and I just think

(46:43):
a lot of times it's the ego, a lot of
times it's politics. But I really think that they could
do so much more than they are doing now to
satisfy all of us, the Ring of Honor fans, you know,
the japan fans, all the fans. There's just so much
out there, and it wouldn't cost them an extra time.

(47:04):
It's just a matter of being creative and you know,
just allowing yourselves to do these things, not being stubborn.
You know, PJ.

Speaker 6 (47:14):
I couldn't agree, PJ. Wade, I couldn't agree more with
that and what you just said. You know, I don't
know if they're gonna be going over two five anytime soon.
As the with the ratings, and especially with football my
man in football, and being against Thursday night Football with
SmackDown the ratings, it has to make Vince think its
time for a change. And just like you said, it's
the mixture. How many things do we need to shoo?

(47:36):
How much do we need to see? Shame of this
first Randy ort I'd rather see Wade, just like you said,
all those guys who have been left off or off
instead of see even Stephen back and forth where the
guy Randy Orton gets to pin this week, three weeks later,
Seamus gets the pin back and forth. Protect your guys,
build your guys, and you know, in a mixture, and

(47:58):
you know, and Wade, you always said, I enjoy that.
Lately they'd be talking about matches that are coming up
later on the show. But I remember doing the attitude era.
Maybe talking about a match next week that just got fined.

Speaker 4 (48:11):
How worked out?

Speaker 6 (48:12):
That's not hard to do.

Speaker 4 (48:16):
In another thing I'd love to do. And maybe it's
because I'm forty one years old, but look at what
they're doing with the Dudleys. They're both older than I am.
Bubba's almost forty four, Devon's forty three, Rhyano's been in
NXT for a short while. Give a Nostalgia Acts a shot.

(48:37):
Maybe I'm not the big show. I'm not saying putting
on Raw or SmackDown, but give them a shout. On
Superstars Unchallenged, John, I know I don't, they don't have challenge,
but on NXT, on some of their smaller shows, there's
just ways to do it, and fans would be excited
because right now there are no other places to get

(48:59):
real to out from surprise towns. You know, you can
cause a buzz through guys who are still in shade
to come out and make a surprise none. Don't sign
them to a contract, but give them a three four
shot deal and then that's it, just to just to
spice things up.

Speaker 6 (49:20):
Great'sja, That's a great point. And also let that age
bracket also give the rubs they always talk for the
network team. We heard all about laps, fans laps, fans
laps fans, guys, good night. After SummerSlam, the crowd popped
for the Dunleys, just like you said, that crowd popped
and I know it was New York.

Speaker 9 (49:39):
I know it was.

Speaker 6 (49:39):
Brooklyn, but that crowd popped and you don't hear And
I know what else? Wait, I think you mentioned this week.
I don't know where I heard you mentioned it this week.
Maybe it was with Austin wherever it was you were saying.
Also without Kurt Angle, Kurt Angle, you know down the line,
you know, maybe come in just to do interviews, whatever,
but you can parlay it show some of their best

(50:00):
matches on the network.

Speaker 11 (50:02):
People.

Speaker 6 (50:03):
They can find so much great work you did in
the in the just like you said inside that library
that they own all your matches. To put an hour
a week of someone who really was, you know, someone
from the attitude there and someone from the eighties spotlight them,
you know, Lad, I've called a lot with suggestions on
how is to improve the network, you know, and after
hearing your interview with JR a few weeks back, Waid,

(50:26):
I would love them to put Jr. In control because
he had some great ideas. But there's so much they
could do. It's untapped potential.

Speaker 1 (50:34):
All right, and you know, but no, Scott, I I
we have a lot of people on hold. I do
want to give some other people a chance. So just
kind of make it.

Speaker 6 (50:41):
One last joint, one last question, total way off topic,
but it deals with someone PJ worked with Waite. I
know you have a good relationship with him too. Is
next year? I know it's early to talk about it, guys,
Is next year the chance we see Sean walt and
go into the Hall of Fame. They've the click ending
the Hall of Fame the last year I know trimple
a slice to take care of his boys. Could we

(51:04):
finally get Shawl Waltman in the Hall of Fame next year?
I know you guys pulled some relationships with him. That's
my last point. I'll be listening, guys. Thanksgot the great
work and wait CP for wife. Everyone who has it.
If you don't have, if you're a true wrestling fan,
you should be VIP. I have a great one, guy.

Speaker 1 (51:20):
Thanks Scot. Pw Torch dot com slash go vip to
sign up to what Scott's talking about h PG. Yeah,
Shan Waltman, I mean, yeah, it's twentieth anniversary and Nitro.
I'll just preface before I throw to you, PAG. Sean
Waltman was pivotal in the Monday and I wars. He
was the workhorse on the team of Scott Hall and
Kevin Nash. I did you know six seven hours of

(51:42):
a torch talk with Kevin Nash, six seven hours of
a torch talk shortly there after with Scott Hall. They
both said Sean Waltman was not just because he's a
good friend of theirs still to this day, but he
was integral in that the outsiders are working because he
could work. And Sean when he jumped to when he
jumped from w W to the WWF, it was a

(52:04):
turning point. Now, granted, a lot of other things were
going on at the time, and it had to do
with somehow in some ways, with how Hall and Nash
reacted to the way Bischoff fired Waltman and how he
reacted to it. Shawn's talked about it. I was on
the phone with Sean Waltman when the FedEx guy showed
up and Sean opened the envelope where he got fired
while I was on the phone with him. It changed everything,

(52:27):
and part of that was when Shawn went and joined
d X. It brought some of that w C W
outsider nWo credibility to DX that it didn't have previously
when it was kind of a different vibe with China
and Shawn Michaels and there were a lot of things
going on. But that is the turning point of the
Monday Night War. That it could have been somebody else

(52:48):
and might have made a big difference too, But Shawn's
contributions to wrestling from the one two three Kid raised
a remote angle and match to the Monday Night Wars.
I mean he is absolutely checks enough boxes to be
a Hall of Famer Peache Huge.

Speaker 4 (53:03):
Yes. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (53:06):
The question is, well, do you think it'll be this
coming year or do you think that it's just who
knows so it's too hard to predict.

Speaker 4 (53:15):
I don't think it'll be this coming year, but I
think eventually it will.

Speaker 1 (53:18):
And do you think it matters to Sean that he's
not in there? Do you think he wants to be
in Do you think he thinks he should be?

Speaker 4 (53:23):
Absolutely? Yeah, absolutely absolutely. I love him. He's one of
my dearest friends in this business. I love him like
a brother, and yes, I think he should and I
think he will.

Speaker 1 (53:43):
You don't have to wait for the way Keller Pro
Wrestling post show to find out what I thought of
Monday Night Raw and SmackDown. Each week, you can check
out my reports that are updated live throughout Raw and
SmackDown at pw torch dot com. My written report will
tell you what's happening in detail in case you missed
the show, and we'll also analyze key segments and give
my random thoughts enquips on what I am watching as

(54:05):
it airs. So check it out every Monday night and
Tuesday night at pwtorch dot com. That also applies to wwepayperviews.
I cover those live at pw torch dot com with
a detailed written report with star ratings. And of course
you can find other TV reports from other contributors to
PW torch such as nxt roh, Impact Wrestling and more.
Check it out pw torch dot com your first stop

(54:28):
for TV and pay per views written reports. All right,
let's let's go ahead and take some more calls. Here,
we'll go to another VIP Express caller, this Brian from Minneapolis. Brian,
thanks for holding please confirm this as you and what

(54:48):
have you got for us today?

Speaker 12 (54:51):
Just one question and it is indeed me way to ask.
All right, yeah, go for My question is in regards
to last week's Total divas a Page was in her
mind reprimanded for not teaching the new students at NXT
the new Girl or I think it was Cameron if
I remember right, some new techniques at the NXG facility
in Florida, and when she was back on the road

(55:14):
the next week, some of her show she was brought
to the venue but not actually to perform, And when
she brought that up to Brian Armstrong, he kind of
accused her of being the one in the wrong by saying,
why do you think we would punish you like that?
And to infer that makes me kind of mad at you.
Can you guys talk about that. It's almost double talking

(55:35):
job in a way where I mean, it's happened in
the past, and for her to think of that it
isn't out of the realm of possibilities considering the past
actions of wwe have they done that to you? Justin
and Wade, what kind of stories have you heard of
that kind of action from agents to wrestlers.

Speaker 4 (55:51):
Okay, they've never done that to me, but I could
see that happening to her.

Speaker 3 (55:59):
You know.

Speaker 4 (56:00):
Fortunately, I always, even though I wasn't officially part of
the click, Sean Michaels, Scott cav Kid Hunter, they were
all very close to me. We were all friends, and
it was always someone protected as long as I didn't
screw up. I was protected politically so, but somebody probably

(56:22):
bottom line headed in for her, and you know, that
was it. I mean, it's very I'll tell you, man,
it's walking on eggshells over there.

Speaker 5 (56:31):
I said it millions of times.

Speaker 4 (56:32):
Yeah, it's a very uncomfortable situation over there because there's
so little spots and there's still little room for error
that you really have to be careful over there. And
I don't even know the situation very well. But no,
that that never did happen to me.

Speaker 1 (56:48):
Brian, I've got that sitting on DVR. I just haven't
kept up on watching full episodes of Total Divas. I
watched all of the Tough enoughs this year. Todd Martin
on the Fix of Todd Martin on the VIP side,
we talked a lot about tough Enough as the season aired,
but it just total devas hasn't been something that I've
spent a lot of time analyzing. So I'm intrigued by that.
I want to go go watch it and come up

(57:09):
with an opinion on it after that. But let me
go watch it and kind of see the context and
maybe even ask around a little bit about it, and
maybe I'll bring it up on a future show or
the Wade Keller Hotline, the VFP exclusive Way Keller Hotline.
By the way, we had a color earlier mentioned it.
Weadkeller dot com is up and running. I've been doing
one or two blog entries per day breaking down my
thoughts on breaking news stories. I wrote editorials on a

(57:30):
few editorials since I relaunched the blog last week. There's
also a video blog up where I talk for six
eight ten minutes about three hot topics in the news
that day. Whatever I have something, whatever I want to
talk about, whatever the big stories are, I talk about it.
You can see me on camera for the first time
on a regular basis, speaking and giving my opinions and analysis. Again,

(57:54):
you can find that at Wadekeller dot com, and I
encourage you to check that out every day. So far,
I've updated it every day once too, you know, one, two,
three times a day and plan to continue doing so.
And it is a place to find uh what I
am thinking about wrestling and so yeah, check it out
both video format and text articles at Wade Keller dot com.

(58:15):
Back to the phone lines, we go, and we have
a lot of people on hold. So I just asked
people to kind of, you know, get to your point
a little quicker, because I want to get through a
few more calls in our remaining minutes, especially those of
you have been on hold a while. We have a
blocked caller showing up as one one one, but you've
been on hold since the start. Go ahead, if you
heard a beat right there, and state your name and
where you're calling from.

Speaker 13 (58:36):
Hello, it's Mike from Ottawa, Canada.

Speaker 1 (58:38):
Hey Mike, thanks for calling. Yeah, it's your numbers not
showing up aery code wise, so I didn't know where
you're calling from. But yeah, what have you got for me?
And PJ?

Speaker 13 (58:45):
Okay, yeah, it never shows up when I'm on my
cell phone anyways, Okay, I have two quick questions.

Speaker 4 (58:50):
Sure.

Speaker 13 (58:51):
My first question is just a general question that I
want to ask talent that's been around him. I just
wanted to get your thoughts on brock Lesner and his
career since two thousand and two for you, Justin. And
my second question is do you think that now that
the talent and everyone, like you say backstage, they walk
on eggshells and everyone's kind of scared to do anything

(59:14):
that can kind of cost them or put them back
in the show, that when something happens wrong out in
the ring and the crowds are brewing them like the
divas the other day, that they just turn all their
hatred towards the fans and then don't really say anything
that's wrong with creative because they're worried they might get
in trouble by management.

Speaker 4 (59:35):
No, you know a was brought in two thousand and
two when Brad first came to the company. I got
the well those privilege, but I got the opportunity to
spar in the ring with them, just like you know
Greco Roman, just like messing around. And he didn't hurt
me or anything.

Speaker 1 (59:57):
But Peach, was he intimidated by you? That's question?

Speaker 4 (01:00:02):
What does that mean?

Speaker 1 (01:00:03):
Was was he scared to be to kind of you
know wrest Oh?

Speaker 4 (01:00:06):
Yeah, oh he was? Yeah, yeah, yeah, he's petrified. Right,
oh yeah, a guy like me.

Speaker 1 (01:00:12):
Absolutely, heweight champion coming in, Yeah, I mean, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:00:18):
Of course he's petrified. No, but he was just such
a beast. Yeah, I mean, you know, he was so
he was just so fast and so good and you know,
just such a he's a machine. He really is a machine.
I mean, his forehead like the size of your of
your of your like, but you know, it's you know,

(01:00:43):
I mean, it's just a monster. It was just such
an intimidating sight. He's not a bad guy. He's just like,
you know, he's just a regular dude. He's you know,
he likes to make jokes like a he's a prankster. Yeah,
but uh, you know, we messed around for like fifteen minutes, and.

Speaker 3 (01:00:59):
Boy was he strong.

Speaker 4 (01:01:01):
Was he just strong? And we ran some spots and
you know, got to right, you know, you know, taught
him some punches and stuff. But man, if you really
wanted to hurt you, we didn't. You know, we were
going slight. We were going light, you know, but if
you really wanted to get you and God, God, God
rest your soul. You know, he was just a very

(01:01:24):
intimidating guy and that whole uh walking on eggshells thing
is just it's not even about in the ring. It's
just about if you politically, uh, you know, give somebody
a little snoopy look, talk, a little uh, a little snack,
a little snotty comment, a little uh. You know, you

(01:01:47):
don't say hi to a certain important person, you're disrespectful,
you bop when you should weave. It's just, you know,
it's it's kind of intense, man. So that's the best I.

Speaker 1 (01:02:00):
Think wrestlers would If the fans are upset with the
way the diva's revolution is going and they're beinget, perhaps
disrespectful in the eyes of the wrestlers in the ring,
the way they're reacting to the presentation of the match,
do you think the wrestlers, because they can't take it
out on management, might end up venting at the fans

(01:02:21):
when they're more displacing their own frustration with the way
management is portraying them, but kind of take it out
on the fans for seeming to blame them rather than management.
It's kind of a complex question, but I think you
get it.

Speaker 4 (01:02:34):
Possibly, but it's mostly the management, because the management lets
them get away with everything as if their top guys.
Management lets them get away with everything. Yeah, it's it's
what have you done for me lately? Yeah, part of
the thing.

Speaker 1 (01:02:49):
Let's squeze in a few more calls here with our
maining minutes, we'll go next to eight, one to three, eight,
one to three. Thanks so much for one. Please state
your name in the city you're calling from.

Speaker 14 (01:02:58):
Hey, God, this is Ja from Tampa.

Speaker 6 (01:02:59):
How you doing good?

Speaker 3 (01:03:00):
Jay?

Speaker 10 (01:03:00):
Good?

Speaker 1 (01:03:01):
Hear for men? What have you got for jams?

Speaker 4 (01:03:03):
Yeah?

Speaker 14 (01:03:03):
First of all, to the story, I guess that I
Enjeorgia were just incredible. I myself definitely wish I could
have seen more. But I know how that can be sometimes,
that kind of frustrate when it seems like it, you know,
you seem established and then you can't. You know, the
push is not necessarily right somewhere else. But my two

(01:03:28):
questions are one question in the comment. My question is
about going touching back real quick about the ratings. What
is it so much now?

Speaker 9 (01:03:38):
Is it just the product?

Speaker 14 (01:03:39):
Or how is it possible that fifteen twenty years ago
we could have been pulling fours and five each and
it was still football seasons and things like that going on.
But I would expect that maybe if anything like the network.

(01:04:01):
A lot of times when I'm watching the network, I'm
watching simultaneously.

Speaker 4 (01:04:04):
I have a tablet or smartphone.

Speaker 14 (01:04:07):
I can actually watch the network and whatever else is
going on on television live, and I do it that way,
So I would think you have more of an opportunity. Again,
I understand if it's on television at that time start
flipping back and forth versus something on the network, So
it seems like they will still be able to get
those ratings. Secondly, do you with talking about the network?

(01:04:31):
I think I'm just half settled or become content with
knowing that NXT is NXT and the product on Raw
and SmackDown.

Speaker 12 (01:04:41):
Is just that.

Speaker 14 (01:04:42):
I'm even scary scared to see some talent go over,
and some of the people that we've seen go over,
like Bo Dallas and Ascension and things like that.

Speaker 4 (01:04:53):
I feel bad for those guys.

Speaker 14 (01:04:54):
Maybe it takes a while longer, but when I see
someone really hot, like right now, SCA airports some more
adyotical over at this point.

Speaker 4 (01:05:03):
No, it didn't. You know what it is, man, It
was like an ECW just incredible. I mean, I main evented,
she's I don't even remember seven eight main events for
ECW pay per views at least. But it was a

(01:05:23):
small building between three two, three four or five thousand
at the most. Sometimes small events don't translate to twenty
thousand arena ceed arenas, you know. Sometimes it just doesn't.
Sometimes it's just not the same. And I get it.

(01:05:46):
I was. I was one of those guys that I
could rock at twenty five hundred seater, three thousand seedter.
But you put me in front of a twenty thousand seater,
not being able to what I do with a certain
construin rings, you know, not being able to do my
finishing moves that I was known for, not being able

(01:06:07):
to being told by the office, I can't dress like this,
act like this, pretend you know. It's it's hard. So
some some some acts just place better smaller arenas, you know.
And I guess that's just the bottom line of it,
you know. And I and I'm content with that. I'm

(01:06:29):
content with being who I was. Hey put it this way,
I became more. I never thought, you know, I know,
wrestling state, but I never thought I'd be a world
heavyweight champion, you know. And I was. I went from
Aldo Montoya to main eventing pay per Views heavyweight champion Paul.

Speaker 1 (01:06:50):
Hayman choose you, given how respected Paul for his eye
for talent and and not you know, he doesn't. He's
not going to put anybody to to anybody in that position.
I think that it becomes even more of an honor too,
that it was Paul who invested in you the way
that he did. And I know how I talked about
you to me, you know, back when he was giving
you that push, and I mean he was he was

(01:07:12):
proud of what he was doing with you and.

Speaker 3 (01:07:14):
What I worked.

Speaker 4 (01:07:15):
I worked. I worked my ass off to the bone.
But you know there were also guys like John Cena
and Undertaker and Brock Lesner that I cannot compete with.
I mean, you know, so I understand my place in
the business, and I am just I'm grateful for everything

(01:07:35):
I had. Yeah, you know, I'm grateful.

Speaker 15 (01:07:43):
Longing for some nostalgia or maybe you want to learn
some wrestling history, don't miss the nineties Past cast. Every
Friday on the PW Torch Daly Cast feed, Alex and
Patrick will transport you thirty years into the past by
taking you through the Torch issue from that very week.
Follow news from the WWF and WCW and all the

(01:08:04):
happenings from across the wrestling industry in real time as
The Torch reported it thirty years ago. That's the nineties
past cast every Friday on the PW Torch Daily Cast.

Speaker 4 (01:08:13):
Feed J.

Speaker 1 (01:08:23):
Do you have any quick J? Do you have any
quick follow up? Before we go to other callers here?

Speaker 4 (01:08:28):
No, I'm good. Thank you for you guys, great, Thank you, brother,
Thank you sir.

Speaker 1 (01:08:33):
All right, let's go to three four seven, next, three
four seven, Thanks for holding. Please state to name in
the city you're calling from.

Speaker 16 (01:08:40):
Hello, is this Christian New York? And ask you questions?

Speaker 1 (01:08:42):
Yeah, Chris Oh.

Speaker 16 (01:08:45):
The first question about the ratings, even though the ratings
on Raw and Knocked Out US down, my question is,
isn't it start to note that Raw did finish number
two behind Football and given the variety of table channels,
is there to compare the ratings from nineteen ninety eight today?
And the second question about Snackdout, given the fact that

(01:09:07):
snackdouts on Thursdays and they're gonna be taking a lump
teams during football seasons, you can USA Network in w
B can just put the show on Wednesdays in January
because then they can take the show up to the
days so they can avoid football at least once a week.

Speaker 1 (01:09:22):
I I, Chris, I think it's a great point. First
of all, yeah, you can't. You can't compare ratings in
twenty fifteen exactly the same way you did in twenty
or I'm sorry, nineteen ninety five or nineteen ninety nine.
There are differences, no doubt. That said that said, you
can look at last year and look at what a

(01:09:42):
big dropp there is this year compared to last year
on Labor Day, and what a big drop has been
just in the past few months compared to where they were.
So I just think, you know, there's a little bit
of it as subjective. Some of it is objective when
you look at the relative ratings, but there's just no
way to spin a two point four as good in

(01:10:04):
the historical context of what WWE usually draws now. Granted,
their audience right now is about what Jimmy Fallon draws
on The Tonight Show on average, and he just got
an extended contract through twenty twenty in a big race.
So you know, it is all relative and Raw is
still a ratings juggernaut. But USA Network is paying for

(01:10:24):
three point zero, they're not paying for two point four,
And so as the rating goes down, it does mean
in all likelihood their TV rights fees go down the
next time their contract comes to So it does matter, Chris.
But you're right, it's not fair with all the cable
channels and DVR viewing and all the distractions. To say
it's apples to apples, peach, What do you have to

(01:10:45):
say to that?

Speaker 4 (01:10:48):
I totally agree.

Speaker 5 (01:10:49):
I mean, you can't I can't even begin to compare,
only because just the total combined number of wrestling that
was out there back in the day. You know, it's
just a whole different ballgame, and you know things are
going to change.

Speaker 1 (01:11:05):
How about moving moving Raw to Tuesdays and moving SmackDown
to either Wednesdays or Friday so that they're not going
ahead to head with the NFL any.

Speaker 3 (01:11:16):
I don't see it.

Speaker 4 (01:11:17):
I see Raw as an institution. I think it's only
sixteen weeks and I think they could handle you know
what I mean, in my opinion, I think it could.
It could work itself out.

Speaker 1 (01:11:28):
During this well no, no, I mean I I during
the Nitros ascension in the ratings, when they started to
beat Raw handily. I talked to Vince McMahon about the
ratings in a phone call and he called for some
other reason, but we got talking about that, and he
I asked him point blank, I said, would you move

(01:11:49):
RAW to Tuesdays if Nitro keeps beating in the ratings
and the gap grows? And he said he would not
be too proud to be the first to blink that
he would be willing to move RAW to Tuesdays. Now,
that was twenty, you know, less than twenty almost twenty
years ago, you know, eighteen nineteen years ago. But you know,
I think there might there could be a sit down
where they say, you know what, let's not be too

(01:12:11):
proud to admit that we can't compete with ESPN on
Monday Night football. Let's move RAW to Tuesdays during football season,
maybe twenty weeks out of the year, you know, September
through January, wait for college football to end and move
into Tuesdays. And the move of SmackDown to Thursdays hasn't
worked out well. If so, they can move smack down
to Wednesdays or back to Fridays and not compete with

(01:12:34):
the NFL, and they might be better off. I just think,
when you start getting ratings this low, I think some
things that you would just never think could happen now
at least are part of the conversation. So I'm going
to be interested and intrigued to see what happens there.
All right, let's let's go ahead and go to seven
seven three, next, seven seven three. Thanks rolling, Please state

(01:12:54):
your name and where you're calling from. Go ahead, seven
seven three, seven seven three, going once, going twice from Chicago. Hey, Boris,
can you hear me? Yeah? Now we can. Hey, Yeah,
what have you got for PJ?

Speaker 11 (01:13:14):
Yesterday I was mentioned by non caller about my comparison
of New Japan to w W, and we'll see. I
guess they were saying that, you know, it's no comparison,
but I want you guys take on it, because you know,
I was watching a match between Tanahashee and AJ and
to me, that was what I want from w W,

(01:13:35):
which is it was consisted of a.

Speaker 17 (01:13:38):
Ref bump and a double low blow, but the finish
was complete.

Speaker 9 (01:13:44):
It wasn't you know? It was complete?

Speaker 17 (01:13:46):
In all I was saying when I compared w W
to New Japan, I want, you know, I want those
good matches too, but from beginning a few like if
you follow aj Tanahashi or Kada from when Nakada was
in Tema coming back and Aj and Tanna Ho Shee
threw from Resu King of Nine where I started from

(01:14:09):
to now they have.

Speaker 9 (01:14:10):
A complete story. What do you guys think? This is
what I was meaning?

Speaker 1 (01:14:15):
Yeah, no, I understand you Boris, Yeah, pech I this
this gets to what I think stood out And I
talked to Steve Austin about this on the Steve Austin
show that dropped on Tuesday this week a couple of
days ago, when we were reviewing the Sasha Banks Bailey
match from the NXT Takeover Brooklyn Special. I am a
real fan of and I think this is something that

(01:14:38):
NXT does really well. And I don't think it's by accident.
I think Ryan Ward, head of creative at NXT, and heck,
I think Adam Pierce deserves some credit for this, and god,
I mean there's so many people. Sarah del Rey, for sure,
when you talk about women's wrestling, deserves some credit for
this too. They pick the right wrestlers and they position

(01:15:01):
them to succeed, and then they get out of their way.
And if I were to summarize what it is that
I think makes New Japan work or stand out for fans.
It's not only the talent that they have, but the
booking staying out of the way of the amazing stories
that really talented wrestlers. If you've picked the right guys,

(01:15:23):
If the booking stays out of the way and you
let the wrestlers go inside those ropes and tell a
story for fifteen or twenty or twenty five minutes, that's
what wrestling fans, I think want, and I think that's
when wrestling thrives more so than when you have Summer
Ray crying and Russev forgiving her and Dolf coming out
and talking about what Lana told him about Russev the

(01:15:43):
night before in bed, Like I just the further you
get away from things being actually about what's going on
in the ring. And I know it's counter it feels
old school or small minded to the Vince McMann and
Kevin Dunn types in WWE, But I really think when
you get excited about the wrestlers telling a story in
the ring, fighting for championships, that's when wrestling fans get

(01:16:06):
the most excited, and I think you start losing more
wrestling fans, then you gain non wrestling fans when you
start making your WWB program about things other than what
wrestlers do inside the ring. So let me go back
to PJ and get his thoughts on that topic.

Speaker 3 (01:16:21):
Go ahead, PG, go ahead one that.

Speaker 4 (01:16:25):
I'm sorry, I couldn't hear you, PG.

Speaker 1 (01:16:27):
I just was saying that the when booker's booking gets
out of the way and lets wrestlers do their thing
in the ring, which I think NXT does and I
think New Japan does it, that you get more wrestling
fans enthusiastic about the product. And I don't think there's
a lot of non wrestling fans to gain. I think
WWE is so often chasing people who aren't wrestling fans,

(01:16:49):
and I don't think they realize the damage it does
to the wrestling fan base, which is substantial, when it
seems like they're just trying to chase down the non fans.
We're about to go to a commercial break, whieless of
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(01:17:10):
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Speaker 4 (01:17:31):
Yeah. Look, I always believe that what we do is
not that difficult, and uh, and I hope I'm on
the right track with the question that you've aked. But
the bottom line to me is realism. What is what
works in a worked environment, of course, and sometimes the

(01:17:56):
organic stuff happens in the rain that you can in
that script and if you could just go with it,
and you know, it's hard to explain. I've been in
so many situations on smaller independent or not smaller but
you know, Jesus size independent cards where you know something

(01:18:21):
is not supposed to happen, but it happens. And then
I try to act like I'm shoot hot, you know,
and then they try to act like they're shoot hot,
and we try to keep it, you know, we we
we're obviously working. We give each other the you know,
the iggy that it's not real, but we're trying to

(01:18:41):
work it and it looks so legitimate that even the
promoter himself gets nervous because he thinks we're really upset
with one another. And I think that's something that's the times. Well,
we try too much to predetermine these things, like it's
the movie get like we're playing a Scorsese role. Sometimes

(01:19:04):
things just happen by accident and you have to just
embrace it. And that is the lost art and real
emotional wrestling. And I know for a company in law,
it's very difficult because they don't want to go out
on a limb. But I tell you, some of the
best successes have been you know, a guy stiffs to me,

(01:19:28):
you know, kicks me as hard as you can in
the face. I get shoot hot, you know, and I
go after them. But then I'm like, you know, dude,
let's just chill. It's just worthless thing. Pretend we're hot
at each other's let's work a pull apartner and it
becomes so passionate and it's you know, obviously it's still
a work, but you know, I don't know if I'm

(01:19:51):
going off context of what I'm saying, but what I'm
trying to say is sometimes we overthink, well, the beauty
of what the old school pro wrestling was, the stuff
with the bruiser, Brody Doulah, the butchers. We just you know,
we too We're too Hollywood. Now we've become too Hollywood.

(01:20:13):
That's my biggest problem.

Speaker 1 (01:20:15):
I said this a lot. I said this a lot
when Vince Russo was in power Peage, that you have
to have people in charge who are producing it, who
are excited about stepping away. When two wrestlers who you picked,
who you made good choice to pick, to be in
this match and be in an important match, and you
gave them the right setting to hype their match with

(01:20:36):
Mike time, interview time, I want bookers and writers who
are genuinely excited to step back and hand over the
reins to the wrestlers and let them figure out how
to tell this climax of the story that they set up.
And I just think too often now there is overthinking
and there's too many cooks in the kitchen. There's too
many things like that, and yeah, sometimes you just step

(01:20:56):
away and let the wrestlers practice their craft and tell
the story that way. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:21:01):
Wait, I'll never forget this. We were in Minneapolis, I
believe it is, at a university. I was a champion
and I was working with Raven and we had to
brawl out into the stands and we didn't do it
on purpose, but we fought next to you guys, and
then Raven gave me a semi It was a little

(01:21:24):
snug kick to the head and I looked at him like,
you son of them, chug Darius, and then you know,
and then we started going at it, you know, not
stiffing each other, but just.

Speaker 3 (01:21:35):
Go blah blah blah blah.

Speaker 4 (01:21:37):
And and then Jay called me later. I was like,
oh my god, was that a shoot? You guys really mad?
And I was like, no, we weren't. But that's sometimes
what the business needs to get, that that we know
it's sake, but that part might have been real.

Speaker 1 (01:21:57):
Yep, you know, and I.

Speaker 4 (01:21:59):
Think that's what's in the business.

Speaker 1 (01:22:01):
Well, didn't Raven. That didn't Raven kind of do that
for us since he knew we were there.

Speaker 4 (01:22:07):
No, I did it. It was on me.

Speaker 1 (01:22:08):
Oh I got the hell, Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:22:10):
He kicked he kicked me right in my head, and
I got, I got a little emotional, and then I realized.
But then I got I realized, well, we got an
opportunity here to make it look legitimate. Do you understand
what's that abs? So I tried to take it to
that other level where you know, hey, this might be real,

(01:22:33):
this might not be real. But that's the beauty of it.
You always keep you always want to keep the fans guessing.

Speaker 1 (01:22:40):
That's when you can, that is when you can the
goal the goal now. And we saw this on tough
enough to just keep pulling the curtain further and further back.
I think it is done to the detriment to the
narrative that wrestling fans really like, which is not being
left guessing. When I watch reality TV, I don't want
there to be a red light that tells me when

(01:23:00):
something is real, and a green or a green a
red light that's also mean something is fake, and a
green light when something is real. I want to watch
a reality show, not not like Survivor, but I mean,
you know, the more heavily produced ones. If I'm watching
one of those, I don't want to know what's real
and what's not. I mean, of course, I'm curious about
it if I'm watching it, But I like that it's
well produced enough that you're not quite sure when something

(01:23:22):
is orchestrated for the sake of the drama, or there's
an argument that's genuine. I don't want them to tell
me all the stuff that is fake, because that would
take me out of the moment of getting just wrapped up.
So yeah, and.

Speaker 4 (01:23:33):
Then and then we went back through the curtain and
we hugged each other and we're like, oh man, that
was awesome, great, And then we had people at least
for the moment. Small It might have been a small moment,
but a small moment. Oh wow, that might have been
legit or might not have been. Who knows. You know,
it's it's that other it's that other part of it,

(01:23:56):
that other piece of the puzzle. You know, you never know.

Speaker 1 (01:23:59):
Well, I bring TV because I think people in pro
wrestling think that it's the you know, Triple H even
used the term, although he said it, I know, he
just sort of said it slipped out. It wasn't in
the script. He didn't want it to be known as that,
and they've certainly moved away from him, but he once
called it the reality era of wrestling, and there are
people behind the scenes and writers and other people and
other positions who think, well, we have to be more

(01:24:19):
like reality TV, and I think they're actually not enough
like reality TV, in that reality TV actually is more
pays more attention to k fabe than WB does these days.

Speaker 4 (01:24:33):
Exactly, exactly, exactly, Peach, thank you so.

Speaker 1 (01:24:37):
Much for your generous time and being here. I know
Scott warned me all afternoon and DDP did too. He
just didn't all much time he's gonna have And I
told you the same thing. We're hoping to have some
crossover with you and Scott together at the same time.
It didn't work out, but it is always a great
conversation about wrestling. And you've been so many places and
done so much and still follow the product today, so

(01:24:58):
it's it's a real treat as always to have your insights.
So thank you for your generous time.

Speaker 4 (01:25:02):
Once again, Wait, it's always a pleasure to be part
of you and part of PW George dot com. Thank you, sir.

Speaker 1 (01:25:10):
I should have gotten this to this earlier in the show,
and my apologize for my apologies for it. But anything
that you want to plug Twitter, any projects any dates
anything like that.

Speaker 4 (01:25:19):
Oh sure, just follow me at PW or at PJ
Plato on Twitter and my new website for my t
shirts www dot Pro wrestlingts dot com, backslash justin incredible, awesome.

Speaker 1 (01:25:38):
Thank you, Peach. We'll talk to you soon.

Speaker 4 (01:25:40):
Okay, yes, sir Wade, thank you so much, my friend you.

Speaker 1 (01:25:43):
Bet thank you or excuse me. Thanks PW Torch livecast
listeners for joining us today and especially VIP members. Don't
forget check out my blog right now Wadkeller dot com.
Weadkeller dot com. You can find my thoughts on what's
going on in wrestling every day in written format and
also on camera. And my adorable kitten occasionally is a

(01:26:04):
camera hog and photo bombs me in the background, and
it's worth checking out the videos just to see one
of my two kittens actually photo bomb me and distract
me while I'm trying to talk about serious issues. So
check that Outweighteteller dot com. My new blog up and
running for the past week after being dormant for over
three years, it is back. Check it out. I have

(01:26:26):
a lot of fun writing about wrestling, and it's cool
to have a the blog up again and to have
a kind of feedback that I have from it so far,
so that is at of course, our main website, pw
torch dot com our sister brand mma toorch dot com.
Both are available as apps in the iPhone App Store
or the Google Android play Store, so download it for
free and check that out. And tomorrow Bruce Mitchell and

(01:26:49):
Travis Bryant are together for the pawdew Torch Live cast
starting at seven Eastern. We welcome you're listening live or
calling and calling a lot, or listening on demand later.
Whichever works for you is good for us. But certainly
the more participation we have on the live show like today,
the more the better. Thank you everybody for continue supporting

(01:27:11):
towards VIP. Don't forget to support us by shopping Amazon
by going to PW torch dot com slash Amazon. And
if you didn't yet, check out my appearances on the
Steve Austin Show. I was on three times in a
row and the show that dropped Tuesday available at iTunes
and on podcast one. Just google Steve Austin Show if
you're looking for different ways to listen to a show.

(01:27:33):
This third show in a row that I did with
him after we talked about NXT for a while. He
gave me the host interview microphone and I interviewed him
and we've had really good feedback to this. He just
wanted kind of a wide array of a collective questions,
but we didn't talk about him ahead of time. These
were questions thrown at him with no opportunity to plan
his thoughts or plan think about it ahead of time,

(01:27:54):
and the conversation went a lot of interesting places. So
I definitely encourage you to check that out the Steve
Austin Show, and thank you for your support here at
PW torch livecast dot com until next time. Wade Keller
thanking again, Scott Hall and PJ Aloto just incredible for
being on the show today and Ford now signing up.

(01:28:22):
Invite you to email the show with feedback or questions
or comments. That email address is Wade Keller Podcast at
ptwtorch dot com. That's Wadekeller Podcast at PW torch dot com.
Also welcome your feedback on Twitter. Even follow us on
Twitter at PW Torch and follow me at the Wade
Keller That's at PW Torch and at the Wade Keller.

Speaker 18 (01:28:45):
Searching for more great pro wrestling talk, then join me
Jason Powell host them the three weekly Pro Wrestling Boom Podcast.
Each week you'll hear the latest news and analysis for
me and my team at Pro Wrestling dot need along
with other pro wrestling media members. Plus, the Pro Wrestling
Boom Podcast features long form interviews with notable names in
the pro wrestling industry. Subscribe and iTunes, Stitcher, Downcast, and

(01:29:06):
all your favorite secondary apps, or visit us directly at
PW boom dot com. Once again, that's PW boom dot com.

Speaker 1 (01:29:16):
Thanks for listening to our podcast. Did you know we
also have a website pwtorch dot com Daily news updates, editorials,
and my live TV coverage covering Raw, Dynamite and SmackDown
and my live pay per view coverage for WWE and AEW.
Create a tab or bookmark make it a daily stop.
Visit us throughout the day every day to keep up
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Speaker 19 (01:29:39):
Meet an extra dose of positivity in your wrestling podcasts,
will come join me alanforel Over in the Progress Paradise
at pterewtorch VIP as we mask on the bright side
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(01:30:01):
in the Paradise too, and we've done fun historical shows
such as the We Love Liger series celebrating the glorious
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shows where our guests will join me to talk about
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(01:30:24):
a list of all the VIP benefits is available at
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Speaker 1 (01:30:43):
One way that you can help us sustain our schedule
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to Apple Podcasts and look for our Weightkeller Pressing podcast
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(01:31:04):
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Thank you so much.

Speaker 7 (01:31:20):
In twenty twelve, NXT transitioned into the developmental system and
ultimately the brand you see today. On the Torch VIP
podcast NXT Eight Years Back, we'll be taking a weekly
look at this page in NXT's early history.

Speaker 8 (01:31:35):
Join Kelly Wells and me Tom Stout from PWT Talks
NXT every Saturday as we go eight years back to
the day to track NXT's rising talents and why they
did or didn't work out exclusively for PW Torch Vip members.

Speaker 1 (01:31:49):
PW Torch Vip membership doesn't just give you ad free
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(01:32:12):
top newsmakers in the nineties, and also our podcast library
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no larger, longer spanning pro wrestling podcast library than that
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(01:32:35):
and special format podcasts that we've done throughout the years.
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