INTERVIEW CLASSIC (10 YRS AGO): Stories from Triple H's roommate for 6 months, former ECW Champion Justin Credible, plus Kleinrock & Fishman

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 2 (01:36):
Now, PW Torch and Spreaker bring you the Wade Killer
Pro Wrestling Podcast. It's time for this week's Interview Classic
where Wade Killer Interview is one of pro Wrestling's newsmakers.

Speaker 1 (01:52):
Ten years ago. This week I interviewed Triple H Paulovx
former roommate. Well he's better known as Just Incredible, former
EW World Heavyweight Champion, but he spent six months on
the road with Triple Ah. He's got some stories from
the nineteen nineties of being Triple H's roommate for a
half a year. He also talks about his ascension, Triple
H's ascension in WWE. Also, he talked about his decision

(02:15):
to retire from pro wrestling and what it felt like wrestling,
what he believed would be his final match, and what
he planned to do with his life going forward, his
critique of the current wrestling scene, and more. We had
live callers contributing questions throughout the show. This originally live
streamed on December third, twenty fifteen. The new jump had
a few days to Pat McNeil's all star panel discussion
with Kevin Kleinrock from The Master Republic, Lucha Libre, and

(02:37):
wrestling interviewer Scott Fishman, breaking some news and talking about
the latest happenings with live callers and emails. This is
the Way Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast ten years Ago. Interview
Classic four, Saturday, December sixth, twenty twenty five.

Speaker 3 (02:50):
Not Radio.

Speaker 1 (03:01):
Welcome to the p W Torch Live Cast. I am
Wade Keller, editor and publisher of the Pro Wrestling Torch
weekly newsletter along with editor of PW torch dot com
since nineteen ninety nine, and host of this CEPW Torch
Livecast available for live streaming and on demand listening and
downloading later at PW torch livecast dot com It is Thursday,

(03:27):
December third, twenty fifteen, and because it is Thursday, that
means it is Interview Thursday. And we'll be joined momentarily
by Just Incredible, former ECW World Champion and one time
member or honorary member clarify that with him of the

(03:48):
Click and recently just retired as an active wrestler. I
think pretty emotional time for Just Incredible, and we're looking
forward to having him on the program and will be
bringing him out of the show in just a moment.
I want to first just remind people during this holiday hopping,
holiday hopping wait, holiday shopping. Holiday hopping is Easter holiday

(04:11):
shopping season if you are planning already to shop. A
team for doing a great job and continuing to help
this show grow year after year after year. All right,
we're going to take phone calls. This is very much
an open line episode of Interview Thursday. We want to
get reader listener comments on what is going on, especially

(04:33):
in WWE. What do you like about what they're doing
that you think isn't showing up in the ratings. What
do you think they need to correct badly before you're
going to show enthusiasm for the product and the brand again.
What do you think of Roman Reigns as chase of
the title, seamous as champion, the New Day getting a
push as both kind of a mid card comedy act
and main event heels at the same time, a little

(04:55):
bit of a contradiction perhaps, And also what they've done
with Charlotte and Becky Lynch and Sasha Banks and Nikki Bella,
everything going on the Wyatt family, feuding with the Dudleys,
anything going on in WWE. Just Incredible follows a product
closely and he's very, very willing to join in on
a conversation about current events and pro wrestling. You also

(05:16):
can call with question for Just Incredible, specifically about his
days in ECW, his time in WWF as Aldo Montoya
going way back, or his work on the ND scene,
anything having to do with his career. Uh, feel free
to give us a call. Also. The phone number is
six four six seven two one nine eight two Weight.
That's six four six seven nine eight two Wight Again,

(05:40):
I'm Wade Keller, and this is a PW Torch live
cast on December third, twenty fifteen. And our guest, my
guest that we're about to bring into the program, your
guest too, So our guest is just incredible. Uh, just incredible. PJ. Piloco,
Welcome to the program.

Speaker 4 (05:56):
Good evening, Wade. How are you guys today?

Speaker 1 (05:58):
Doing great? It's so good to have you back up
the show. You're one of the regulars. Every time we
have you on, we get comments on Twitter and email
the people really appreciating your point of view and enjoying
your appearances. And I hope you enjoy it too. It's
always a fun conversation.

Speaker 4 (06:11):
Oh always love coming on. And you know, you just
talk about you know what we talk about anyway, you
know what we love, which is business pro wrestling.

Speaker 1 (06:20):
I want to talk first before we take phone calls.
Oh by the way, when you call, if you want
to participate in the show, you need to push one
on your touched on phone. The pre recorded message used
to say that I'm not even sure if it still does,
but when you call up if you want to join
the program, push one that moves you into the caller
queue on our switchboard, as opposed to just laying back
in the weeds as a eavesdropping listener. Not yet sure.

(06:43):
A couple of you just pushed one, so I'm glad,
I said that, Pete. You know what I'm gonna do.
Since we have a bunch of callers on the line,
I want to talk to you about your retirement in
a little bit. I was going to lead with it,
but why don't we as a courtesy to our callers,
especially it looks like might be an overseas caller. Let's
get to those right away and see what's on their minds.

Speaker 4 (07:00):
All right, it was good.

Speaker 1 (07:00):
Cool. Let's go to six. One, four zero seven are
the first few numbers on this believe you're calling from overseas,
Please state trenamid where you're calling from highway.

Speaker 5 (07:10):
This is Jim all the way from Australia.

Speaker 1 (07:12):
Awesome. Good to hear from you. I picked up Australia.
I didn't hear your first name? Is you say Jim?

Speaker 4 (07:17):
It's Jim. That's right.

Speaker 1 (07:19):
Oh good, okay, I did hear you. What's on your mind?

Speaker 4 (07:20):
Jim?

Speaker 1 (07:20):
Thanks for calling from Australia.

Speaker 5 (07:22):
Yeah, no problem, it all Wait. I listened to you
every single week. For me, it's every single morning on
the way to work. So I download your podcast and
I listen to it every morning. P W Torch, thank you.
Just want to put my five sense? Yeah, I just
want to put my five cents worth just in regard
to the current WWE I guess roster and the climate there.

(07:44):
I've been watching wrestling for many, many years here in Australia.
We used to watch even going back to justin Credibles
e c W Days to w c W to w
W A and you tell me, and when I look
at the current roster of superstars at the to project
as being superstars going back many years, you know your
top four or five six wrestlers, I just don't get

(08:08):
that excitement of the current crop of wrestlers in the
way they're projecting them to us as the viewers when
I go back in even back in the w CW
or even you know in Just Incredibles time in the ECW,
you had your five six wrestlers that you knew when
they came out something was going to happen, so it

(08:30):
was it was must watch TV or the moment you
know they're just going like the new day from being
this real, you know, different type of groups and now
being like a joke coming out and just making a
mockery of making I just don't get that excitement anymore.

Speaker 4 (08:48):
It's really fragmented well, I mean, you know, I had
my personal opinion. If you don't want to take this
one firstly, definitely, you know, it's a combination of things.
I think one of the big things as of course,
the lack of excitement or you know, you know, the
fans aren't very happy from what I hear. You know,

(09:10):
they're you know, from what I read online, they're just
not very happy from the eye test. It's but to me,
it's very hard, not because I'm bitter, not because I
have avide interest just as a wrestling fan, and just
nothing you write, nothing excites me. I feel like a
lot of it has to do with the network over
exposure of the of the product. That three hour raw

(09:33):
is is very difficult, very difficult to keep guys fresh,
you know, I mean you see him for three your
banking on these guys for you know, every week for
three hours a week. You know to some degree, you know,
several segments, it's going to burn out your character, burn
out your feuds. I don't know, man, I think and

(09:53):
and right now, wrestling is not cool. There's nothing cool
about you know, pro wrestling. I won't call it sports entertainment,
but I think something needs to shake up in the
way both WWE and you know, Impact wrestling in and
ring Evana, the way everybody presents wrestling. I think things
that's are drastically changed for it to be accepted in
the mainstream. Because right now, with all the social media

(10:16):
and everything that is available to the local twenty year old,
eighteen year old whatever likes wrote would like wrestling, you're
you're very divided on where you could spend your time,
your money, et cetera. And we have to capture their
imaginations against you know, and it's not obviously this formula.

Speaker 1 (10:33):
Before I go back to Jim, I want to do
a followup with you pg PJ Walker justin Credible Archester.
If you're joining us live a few minutes out of
the program here, what is when you're watching the show
right now, we're saying a lot that is true that
the ratings are down and people are expressing discontent with
not feeling excited about some of the talent. And I

(10:54):
think one thing that that's coming to into focus for
me and point I think Jim started off the show
in a great way with this comment is there's always
been parts of wrestling shows at any time in any
era that I've been a viewer that I've liked what
I've that that. There's been wrestlers I've liked, and sec
and feuds I've liked, and other wrestlers I was kind

(11:15):
of bored with or thought were overexposed, or just was
sort of just didn't really have a strong opinion on.
But there were always a few where you're like, all right, cool,
this is why I invest in my time. I think
those people are at a real low point right now.
I think that. I mean, there's a lot of things
we talk about. There's a lot of things that I
rant about that I would change about the industry. But
sometimes it just comes down to having three to four cool, edgy, popular,

(11:39):
interesting characters, wrestlers who are on a journey and you're
on a journey with them. Daniel Bryan was that person
for some people. See im Punk was that person for
some people. Randy Orton was that person for a while.
You know, I mean, you can list them, and I
just don't think there's that feeling among viewers that there's
that person. They're sitting around investing thirty forty five minutes

(11:59):
into waiting for them to show up.

Speaker 4 (12:03):
Yeah, yeah, it's it's I mean, in my opinion, there's
no it's not the lack of talent that does. You know,
they have a lot of wonderful talent. They have a
stock roster. I just it's just it's been how many
decades you know we're going on, you know, since the
attitude there kind of like you start to show the

(12:23):
same way with those long winded promos. Really not you know,
I know it's hard to produce that much television, but
it also could challenge you to focus on, you know,
the I think the big reason that their top, their
main event guys don't matter is because the mid card
doesn't matter, you know it, and it has a lot
to do with it. I think, you know, if we

(12:46):
played this on a more sports like I know Vince
will never go forward. He wants entertainment. But if you
really make certain things matter and you show fans why
this guy, you know in logically book and try to
catch that lightning in a bottle with with a certain superstar.
But another problem I feel is they're so restricted. And

(13:06):
Steve Austin and you have talked about it. I've talked
about it with Steve on his podcast as well. I
think by choking the top guy's ability to expand and
possibly be more of themselves and make it more believable
and transparent to the fans and where it's you know,
the fans could feel it and make a you know,
try to you know, do something different where it's like wow,

(13:30):
you know, and get fans caring again, caring about the titles,
caring about the opening match, guys, you know, caring about
everybody you know. And that's what it's going to take
and makeing it cool. We got to find out how
to hit those hipsters and those people that used to
spend money back in the day when d X and
nWo was hot. We got to get those people to
somehow slowly bring them in. And I don't know what

(13:51):
that next cool thing would be, but I think it's
a new concept in the way we present it on
raw Ford three hours has to change slowly.

Speaker 1 (13:58):
I'll go back to Jim in just a second to
throw to you justin one more follow up. Though everybody
talks about physic man is seventy years old. He's not cool,
he doesn't know what's hip, he's out of touch with
pop culture. And but he thinks while I surround myself
with young riders, so you know, I should be okay,
but I also wonder is Triple H cool enough? Is
he young enough? He's in his mid forties. And when

(14:19):
he and Sean Michaels come out and do their zany
d X skits. I mean, it's sort of fun in
a cheesy nostalgia way, but it's also oh, Dad, stop
embarrassing me in front of my friends, you know, goofball
way like you would expect a modern family. So you know, what,
what do you think can be done within the structure
of ww ME management focused on that aspect of making

(14:42):
it cool and edgy again. It's something I talked about
with Todd Martin. I fixed yesterday with Vieta members that
Monday Night War Era page had that feeling of it
was cool, you were, you were okay to watch it,
and knowing you wanted to wear a teacher to tell people.

(15:03):
You don't have to wait for the way Keller Pro
Wrestling post show to find out what I thought of
Monday Night Raw and SmackDown. Each week, you can check
out my reports that are updated live throughout Raw and
SmackDown at pwtorch dot com. My written report will tell
you what's happening in detail in case you missed the show,
and it will also analyze key segments and give my
random thoughts quips on what I'm watching as it airs.

(15:25):
So check it out every Monday night and Tuesday night
at pewtorch dot com. That also applies to wwepayperviews. I
cover those live at pw torch dot com with a
detailed written report with star ratings, and of course you
can find other TV reports from other contributors to pw
torch such as nxt ROH, Impact Wrestling and more. Check
it out pwtorch dot com your first stop for TV

(15:48):
and pay per view written reports.

Speaker 4 (16:00):
Absolutely, you were absolutely right, and that's what I mean.
It was cool to You'd go down the Jersey Shore
where I'm from the northeast, You'd see nWo DX and
you know, gimmicks everywhere, guys wearing them, kids wearing it,
and it was cool. Stone Cold Austin three sixteens, you
know it was. It was hip, And I think you
know what way to go about it is almost in it,

(16:21):
you know, going to a UFC sort of fashion where
you know, like I watch a lot of ESPN and
the way they present superstars athletes, the Peyton Mannings, the
Lebron James, you know, whoever the top guys are. You know,
Cam Newton for example, they focus on their personalities, you know,

(16:42):
you know, you sometimes get more from what the football
guys do announcing when they're coming into the building with
their bag. You know, they give a little thirty sixty
second snippet of what Cam Newton has to do today
to win this football game. And if we started doing
more stuff like that, just show wrestlers for who they
are and take it into more of a like almost

(17:04):
like you know how you see the guys in in
their reality shows, because they have a lot of charismatic guys.
But Jim's like, once you get into the wrestling arena,
you got to talk all weird and act all weird
and over you know, like amp it up to ten.
I think fans have got to let guys be themselves

(17:25):
and be cool, be a little rebellious. Fans want that.
They're very much into it's about me right now, and
I think that's what they're The WWE has to just
try to stay young.

Speaker 1 (17:37):
Well, let me go back to Jim and get some
follow up comments and a follow up question from him.
Go ahead him.

Speaker 5 (17:42):
Yeah, thanks. By the one thing I was just going
to mention was the anton really this year that I felt, uh,
something fresh and agy what was happening was when Kevin Stay,
now Kevin Olwens came into the Pig Chop and you
saw that feud with John Say and you thought, wow,
here we go, fresh face, some bloke that's got a

(18:05):
number of years in the Indies where he can actually
bring it to a person like a John Cena. And
then they started tapping into your emotion where they started
talking about, you know, that clip of his son would
watch his dad wrestle against John Cena, and the things
that Kevin Owens was saying to John Cena in the

(18:25):
ring on microphone, was tapping into you know, his family.
His suddenly thought, oh, hang on, I'm starting to become
a little bit more emotionally tied to this, to this wrestler,
Kevin Owens. And then all of a sudden, after a
number of months, they've just gone cold on that, and
you're like, whow you were pushing this bloke, Kevin Owens.

(18:47):
He came out, first first match he had with John Cena,
he beat him, and you're thinking, all right, they're going
to push this bloke and now you're just left wondering,
saying shameless, where did he come from? He was basically
not even on the main card, on a number of
pay per views, and then you've got this like Kevin

(19:08):
Owen's which you pushed and he beat John Cener but
then he obviously he lost later on and you're left
of that emotional It was just broken and you're like, wow,
can't they see that that this guy was fresh and
it was edgy and there was a little bit more
energy towards this character where they had a Shamus where

(19:29):
he's a champion, like whoa, it's just night and day
and you just wonder can't they see that? Yeah, guys,
just just wanted to say, I won't take it too
much of your time. I'm massive high from from down
under here in Australia. Keep up the fantastic work their
weight and I'm listening to you every morning here in

(19:50):
Australia every night there in the US.

Speaker 1 (19:52):
That's fantastic. I'm glad you called him. Thank you so
much for participating today and adding to the show.

Speaker 5 (19:58):
No problem, I haven't that.

Speaker 1 (19:59):
N absolutely and thanks for being a VIP member. Of
course we'll talk about a one dollar sale. This would
be the last time I plug in on the live cast,
last sale of the year. I'll mention that in a
few minutes. But PJ, first, you your thoughts on that.
He brought up some very specific examples as a fan
of where he was let down. Go ahead and comment
on those.

Speaker 4 (20:19):
I mean, I think it's they're all very you know,
all fans like, you know, different stuff. But he has
a lot of points. I mean, uh, you know, Kevin
Owens has been a breath of fresh air. But at
the same time there, you know, we all know what
Vince wants as a superstar, and you know, I knew
they were going to put the brakes on him a
little bit. They'll use him and he'll have very very

(20:41):
successful career, you know over there. But you know, Vince
likes his guys to look like treble A, Trandy Horton,
John Cena, uh for their top spot, you know, for
those top few guys. Even Seamus he's a big, big boy,
you know, good shape. So I just think it's very
predictable to the fan. I mean, this wasn't predictable, but

(21:01):
not in a good way in my opinion, I think
they're hot shotting a lot of things. They don't know
where they're going, and I think they're panicking because they
really have to start figuring out how they're going to
sell all those seats to thirty two over there in Dallas,
and it really has to start now, you know.

Speaker 1 (21:18):
I mean, I'm willing, you know, I'm willing to give
WWE in one slice of criticism a little leeway, and
that is they've dealt with a lot of departures all
at once. Now there's a big caveat to this, which
I'll get to a second, but they are without unexpectedly

(21:39):
without some top names Seth Rollins, Cizarrow, Randy Orton, all
gone at once. They have built a lot around part timers,
which is in a way their own fault of course,
in Brock Lesner and before that Sting, of course, Paul
Hayman a very big presence on the show that ideally
he'd be managing somebody besides Lesner, so who could be
on every week, because I think he's one of those
guys people would to in to watch, you know, to

(22:02):
see what is he gonna say next to he could
help get a new guy over. But and then you
have John seen on Hiatis, you have big show on
not not on not in a prominent TV role in
on Hiatus. So there's a lot of missing parts that
they're used to. But so you'd go, well, okay, so
you have to judge them on the situation there and now,
for instance, with Seamus, is more of a bridge just
to get to January. It's a band aid. It's not

(22:23):
a master plan. That he that Vincent Mann thought this
is a best scenario. That said the default scenario who
was in Justin was pretty blah. You know, I mean,
I don't think. I think seth Rawlins was badly overexposed.
So I think when you have a bunch of injuries,
it's actually a chance, with your back against the wall,
to break some of your own habits, your own rules

(22:44):
that maybe other people disagree with, and push some new guys.
And that's kind of what happened with with the uh
uh in various The attitude or is one of those
examples where you know, he lost Brett Hard, he didn't
have a lot of established names, and he's like, heck,
let's you know, Steve Austin's getting pops. We got to
go with him, and you know next thing year, it's huge.
Mick Foley hired. There wasn't a lot of belief that

(23:04):
he would work out, and he did and he was
in main events against Undertaker and and Triple Ah. So
I think they get a bad grade for what they're
doing with all the injuries and the chance to push
new guys. But I'm not going to criticize the Shamus
push or the the League of Nations as something that
was Vincent's a plan because it wasn't sure.

Speaker 4 (23:27):
You know, I think fans right now, though, too are
just are so are so smart to the business. I mean,
you know, a lot of the real real fans, I mean,
I know you have a lot of families with with
you know, those seven and eight year olds that just
watch it for what it is. But the fans are
getting so smarter, so much smarter that I think, you know,

(23:48):
they need to really put it, put their you know,
their ear to the ground and here where the buzz is.
That's one thing that really you know, started to make
way in the way we changed wrestling in the nine
these two you know, we went to the cruiser weights
and you know, we just you know, it was just
a kind of almost like a natural development where we
were just going giving them things that they hadn't seen

(24:09):
before or in a long long time. Especially you know,
the hardcore wrestling has been around as well, maybe not
to that degree, but that was old Texas stuff we weren't,
you know. So I mean, I think we just have
to go back to to to just basic stuff, you know,
and give guys a little more, you know. I think
writers are you know, they're to Hollywood. I think Vince

(24:29):
and Vince and Kevin Dunn are a huge part of
the problem. Vince is a genius promoting and marketing his
product and his brand. But I think you know, what
Vince possibly thinks is cool, it is really not. And
I think that's a huge problem. And you know, and
sometimes you know, either I recall them, you know, they
just do stuff to make themselves laugh. You know that

(24:52):
you've heard those stories. And I think, you know, with
ratings at an all time low, and I think that
also has to deal with too. Is is the mediums
for you know, multimedia and all that stuff. Broadcasts are changing,
so it's not necessarily a lot of kids are sitting
in front of the TV like we were back then.
You know, you're watching tablets and pads and rogue Whu's

(25:13):
and you know, so I think that that's that might
have hopefully something to do with it, But I don't know.
I think Vince has a really big problem creatively and
with his overall brand, and I really find it hard
for them to sell out that, you know, that big
stadium in Texas wrestle I.

Speaker 1 (25:31):
Mean, what you hear is what you hear is Vince
thinks everything will be fine come January and WrestleMania season.
So we'll see what he's got up asleep. I'm gonna
be curious to see what happened, really, but.

Speaker 4 (25:40):
What's who's left though? That is gonna do you.

Speaker 1 (25:43):
Know what I mean, I left, I do not know
what he has.

Speaker 4 (25:49):
We're still gonna wear you know, uh, concentrate on, you know,
promoting the brock Lesseners and the Undertakers, you know at
his advanced age, and the triple Ages of course will work,
and that's fine. They always put on great performances. But
I'm saying, like, how many times are you going to
go to the same formula and expect enough excitement to
sell out a spectacle like that? You know, the business

(26:12):
is not hot at all. I mean it's ice cold,
And that was partly, you know, not to start twisting
and going in another direction. But that was part of
the reason I stopped working, was because it was just
not worth it from a fiscal standpoint, financial standpoint, because
if Vince is hot and the other companies are hot,
the indies are hot and everything is ice cold.

Speaker 1 (26:31):
You know, well you no, no, I'm with you on
what you're saying, and I mean the WrestleMania season. I
hope Vince makes it in part because I think he can.
He can run out of opportunities to do that's pretty
fast if the product gets colder. He needs to do
what's you know, see im Punk kind of complained wasn't
happening during his run on top, which is yes, mixing

(26:53):
the legends to boost up the WrestleMania season and make
it feel special, but it's time to start having those
legends act and put over the current guys who are
on the rise, not just Roman Reigns, but he's got
to pick two three other guys who during WrestleMania season
are not gonna seem like they're lost in the shuffle.

(27:13):
Oh don't worry, they'll be back in May. They'll be
back in mid April, but for now we're going to
concentrate on the really big names they need to elevate.
Whether I mean, if Sizar's ready by Mania it sounds doubtful,
but not impossible. If Kevin Owen stays healthy, he's there,
maybe pick a Finn balor maybe an Apollo Cruise somebody
from NXT, or get Sammy Zain back in the mix.
He's ready to come back at NXT and elevate somebody

(27:36):
against one of these supposed or not suppose it, but
the legendary bigger names. And I'm curious if they can.
I'm curious if that is on Vinces Raidar, because pretty
soon he's not gonna have the big names who can
even put anybody over, and he's the WrestleMania brand is
gonna be hurt if there's two or three mediocre WrestleManias
in a row, that cachet from just being a wrestleminga

(27:56):
made eventor goes away. It becomes a lot less valuable.
So he needs to look at this as a rebuilding
period and and and put talent.

Speaker 4 (28:06):
Yeah, absolutely, I mean it's time. If it's not time, now,
you're gonna miss on that window. You know, you've been
riding these guys too long, and you know hel you
know he's wishing that Steve Boston will come back for
another run. I doubt he will, but you know, you
know that's been a big buzz out there. He's he's
not admitted to anything going forward, but it's always possible,
especially where you know, in Dallas down there. I mean,

(28:28):
that'd be a big attraction. But I think unfortunately, you know,
even if we get Rock and all those names, look
at what we're counting on again, you know, but John
Johnsena is of the now generation. But you're counting on Taker,
You're counting on Steve, You're counting on Brocks, You're counting
on Rock and then the rest of the guys, and
they always look less than And then you're right when

(28:51):
these guys really can't do it anymore or fans don't
even care anymore, who is the next generation of those legends?
You know, what are you gonna bring on? DCW crew?
What you're doing right now? The Dudley's and Dreamer. I mean,
I'm glad everybody's working and they're talented cats. I've worked
onmmy in my last match, you know, and he still
can go. But it's like again, even in that situation,

(29:14):
you're going back to the yesteryear guys to bring some
kind of flavor, you know, because the young guys just
aren't are viewed upon the way the old school cats
are for some reason.

Speaker 1 (29:27):
I'm with you. We're gonna take a just a short
break and plug VIP and then when we come back,
we're gonna start taking more calls. Got a lot of
people on hold who want to talk to you, Justin
I guess Justin Credible if you joined us midstream here
on the Interview Thursday edition of the PWW podcast dot com.

(29:47):
All right, we're back live on the PW Torch live cast.
I'm Wade Keller, host of the program. This is Interview Thursday.
Just Incredible, former ECW World Everyweight Champion, recently retired from
professional wrestling, is on the program. Real name j Ploco.
So if you hear me calling them peage, that's why.
And we are taking your phone calls. I want to
get back to the phone lines. We've got a bunch
of people on hold, and I haven't done a good

(30:09):
job working quickly through the phone calls. So we'll go
next to nine oh one, and then after that four
seven eight, nine to one. Thanks for calling. Please state
your name and where you're calling from.

Speaker 6 (30:19):
This is Michael some Memphis. How you guys doing tonight?

Speaker 1 (30:21):
Doing good? Michael? Thanks for Colin. What have you got
for Justin Credible today? Amy?

Speaker 6 (30:25):
Well, I've done a few things to say. First of all, Justin,
when with your ECW action figure, which I'm holding right now,
they give you a trash can instead of a cane?

Speaker 4 (30:33):
What's up with that?

Speaker 6 (30:34):
Man?

Speaker 1 (30:35):
Oh? Hold on, I put Justin on hold while we
were doing the commercial breaks, so let me bring him
back peech. Sorry about that, go ahead, That's okay.

Speaker 4 (30:46):
I don't know, man, I just think it was they
were trying to give different you know, because Sandman was
still with the company, so he had the cane, So
they were probably at that time just trying to be
diverse and make it look cute. I guess I don't know.

Speaker 1 (30:58):
You're okay with it, You're not losing sing.

Speaker 7 (31:01):
All right?

Speaker 1 (31:01):
Good if you missed it earlier. Just a reminder, we're
running our second VIP sale of the year. We don't
do these often. Take advantage of it now. It is
a limited time offer. Take nine dollars off a VIP
subscription a one month, three month, or one year sub
It brings the one month sub down to just three
dollars in ninety nine cents. The coupon code is n
o V twenty twenty five as in November n V

(31:24):
twenty twenty five, and that takes nine dollars off. When
you check out on our sign up form pw torch
dot com slash go vi IP gives you full details
on membership benefits and links to our sign up form.

Speaker 6 (31:37):
Okay, And the last thing I have by tonight is
I listened to your ramp the other day and, like
I said on Twitter on tu, I've never heard you
go off like that before. I was actually thoroughly impressed
by you losing your tup a little bit. I think
that you're completely right that this bitman is on a touch,
I mean, and he's asking should we bring back celebrity guests?
So he really wants to see b Art the booking

(31:59):
of you know, Cage Match. Okay, it's just not gonna fly.
He needs to, in my opinion, come back to reality.
We developed the younger talents so you don't have another
mass exodus. I mean, if you looked back last ten years,
look at how many people are coment of walking out
of the company and never got beyond mid card because
he kept destroying them for keeping like Andy Orton and

(32:22):
John Seele and so and so forth. Your thoughts to him,
thank you.

Speaker 1 (32:25):
All right, thanks go ahead?

Speaker 4 (32:28):
You know, uh wow, you know, to me, it's uh,
I mean, I think Vince is going to have a
hard time letting go of the way he promotes his
his stuff. And uh it's not even so much of
the way he promotes and who he promotes and puts
on top. I think it's just what he believes. You know,

(32:48):
he likes sports entertainment, you know, and sometimes they do
sports entertainment beautifully with those videos, and you know, you
do watch wrestleman, it does feel very special and like
a big event, and it is prestigious. But uh, you know,
to fix what a lot of fans are saying is
going on, it's just going to take. I think fans
want something different from the norm. It doesn't mean that

(33:12):
they have to change their entire style of book and
but just you know, just you know, the sets, the
tron that'll never go away, But it's just something different
you know it needs to be. They're they're so smart.
Kevin Dunnan has done such a good job. Let's let's
let's let's see something that isn't from the nineties, you know,
and that's what I feel we're watching and that's why

(33:32):
it's not cool.

Speaker 1 (33:34):
Well said, all right, we've got a lot of colors,
so we'll just keep rolling through calls here for a
few more minutes, and then I've got some questions for
PJ too. Let's go to four seven eight, and then
on deck seven one eight, four seven eight. Thanks for holding.
Please state your name and where you're calling from.

Speaker 8 (33:47):
Story from Georgia.

Speaker 1 (33:48):
Hey, Dorel, go ahead with you're on with just incredible.

Speaker 8 (33:52):
Okay. I know both of you guys keep up all
with today's program, and I know we all probably have
problem with the three hour Row and the two hour SmackDown.
He says, they're kind of locked in into that. Do
you think it would be kind of refreshing to everybody
say they have a that it's a deep talent pool

(34:12):
that they have that they're not using to start putting
more maxes on Raw and SmackDown and allowing guys to
cut promos to build a bigger matches on the card,
and the guys that you don't use on Raw use
them to cut promos for a Maxes that he could
have on SmackDown. So you won't be using the same
fifty to fifty booking by having the same match on

(34:34):
Raw on SmackDown where you can put two different guys
in there and it's just film of refreshing. That's my
question for today.

Speaker 1 (34:42):
Okay, so let me clarify first, Drow, you're just saying,
put a wider array of wrestlers, but have some of
them more likely on SmackDown than Raw. So it's not
just fifty to fifty. Is that kind of fair or
am I not understanding?

Speaker 8 (34:57):
Sort of kind of instead of always like using the
same match on Monday and putting it all all smack
Down and they and fit tick the book and just
use your whole talent roster, so it won't be basically
what I'm asking. So when it seemed like be more
refreshing to use your whole talent roster and you want

(35:19):
water down your product by booking the same and guide
and doing the fifty fifty books.

Speaker 4 (35:24):
Yeah right, I hear what you're saying. I think I mean,
you know, I honestly think that they have the talent
to go very deep uh and give guys opportunities. And
that's what always to me is the problem is I
think they don't.

Speaker 9 (35:41):
Uh, they don't.

Speaker 4 (35:42):
You know, if you remember when in any territory where
or organization where Simes were really good, you know, they
had a very deep mid mid card, you know, and
anybody could step up uh and and and fill the
main events spot. So they had a lot of you know,
but that takes years of discip and booking. But I
think they have enough TV and enough talent, especially with

(36:03):
n XT, to start rotating guys all over the place.
And but you know, that takes a lot of hard work.
And unfortunately, you know, the writers are all wanting to
kiss Vince's butt and you know, write the stuff to
the top guys instead of worrying about you know, a
mid to lower car at that could be, you know,
a nice look that onto the show. Remember what the
Luchadors did in WCW. You know it was it was

(36:26):
it was something we'd never see even if you just
do something like that with some young young guys, you know.

Speaker 1 (36:32):
I agree, and I like the idea of not having
every wrestler on every show, you know, like or all
the same wrestlers. It's obviously there's weeks that go by
where you don't see a certain wrestler, but there's a
certain handful of the pushed wrestlers who are wrestling every week.
And I think there's something to be said for having
wrestlers wrestle every two or three weeks. And then what
Durella suggesting would work, which is it gives you a

(36:54):
chance to bring out some different talent and and have
those wrestlers get some TV time. And so maybe one
week the Dudley's or the Dudley's wrestle on Raw. The
next week they're not on Raw, they wrestle on SmackDown.
The next week they're not on TV at all, and
then the next week they're on SmackDown, and then after that
Raw like shake it up, so it feels kind of special,
and when they do appear, then you can make a
big deal out of it by going the Dudley's are

(37:15):
wrestling tonight because you don't see him every week. But
the only people you don't see every week are the
people who nobody wants to watch because they don't treat
them like a big deal when they do wrestle, so
a lot of it is kind of a self fulfilling
prophecy in that respect.

Speaker 4 (37:27):
Yeah, absolutely cool.

Speaker 1 (37:29):
Let's go to seven one eight, next, seven one eight.
Please state you name and where you're calling from?

Speaker 9 (37:35):
Mine from Brooklyn anyway, Hey, prej how.

Speaker 4 (37:37):
You guys doing good?

Speaker 9 (37:38):
Good?

Speaker 4 (37:39):
How you doing so?

Speaker 9 (37:41):
Two questions and I just listening, make you quick? Just
to add on to what you know what y'all was
saying about subarrating the brands, I mean, you know, sebarrating
different guys from the brand. Do I think it would
be more beneficial, you know, like once they moved to Ustate,
they had, you know, like the tool may car the titles,
you know, the US in the hot seat, sidled life

(38:01):
maybe be the focal point of Smackdance. That's my first question.
And the second question is, although we you know, we
don't know his track record yet, how do you think
do we fully folly were fair, you know as a lader,
will do you think they will use any of his ideas?

Speaker 4 (38:17):
That's a la m uh. What was the first part
of the question. It was about I'm sorry, what was
the first part of that question.

Speaker 1 (38:27):
Michael, the titles and oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Putting the
secondary titles on SmackDown to give them some more means man.

Speaker 4 (38:35):
I mean, there were other circumstances to the Wembley Stadium SummerSlam,
because Davy Boy coming home to you know, great Britain,
that was the biggest selling point. But still, you know
that that match closed the show, and it was the
icy title match, you know, and of course that you
know that that stuff, you know, you can't do it
to that level. Of course, it was also homecoming for
Davy Boy. That's what really sold the tickets. But the

(38:57):
Intercontinental title used to be very hot, you know. I
mean that was a hot title for a very long time,
and I think it's a shame how bad it's, uh,
you know, how bad it's gone down. The US title
really has always been sort of a joke in WWE,
nothing compared to what it was. But you know, I think,

(39:18):
you know, if you build it up, you could do
it and just heck, I would just defend the title,
the heavyweight title on the network and use the other
two titles, you know, as your main championships. I know
it'd be hard to you know, have the champion of
course show up, shoot angles and and do some stuff,
but don't have world title matches or maybe throwing a

(39:40):
non title match once in a while. I remember, back
in the syndicated days, Hulk Hogan did a match for Superstars.
It was a non title match against a squash guy,
but it was so special because, Wow, Hulk Hogan's finally
on the broadcast, you know what I mean? And that's
that that you know they have enough to do that.
I think they just they're lazy. Uh you know, I

(40:03):
don't think, and I hate to say it, I don't
think Foley's kid is going to get an opportunity to
really do more than contribute a little bit here and there,
because you know, from what I've heard, if you have
a good idea, you know that it just gets squashed
anyways or completely mangled. And you know a lot of
history goes back to him and struggles with with stuff

(40:25):
like that. But I think a committee of that size
of people that aren't from our business really hurts in
the long run in times like this. They're good. They
might be good in a Hollywood sense for funny TV
or good you know here and there, but we need bookers,
We need old school guys and know how to how
to put fans back, you know, in front of their

(40:46):
TVs and in the in the seats.

Speaker 1 (40:49):
Very good. One more phone call. Then I got to
talk to just about his retirement, and then we'll go
back to more calls. Our number is six four six
seven two way that six four six nine two eight.
Push one on your touched on phone once you call.
If you want to be in the caller Q, let's

(41:09):
go next to uh, let me check the banks here.
Let's go to UH three four seven x three four seven.
Please stay to name it where you're from. How are
you doing for New York, Jonathan, for New York? Yeah?
What what have you got for justin today?

Speaker 6 (41:25):
Okay?

Speaker 10 (41:26):
Well the question I want to ask this on on
on Monday and Tuesday, but I go to get a
chance to call. But uh, what I think that is
doing now is the reason why they wanted promote certain
stars is like I think they looking ahead of the future,
Like I don't think they want to go through the
same thing they're going through now that they always got

(41:48):
to go back to, like the legends to rely on
filling up the stadium WrestleMania. So I think that's what
that's the reason why they don't want to build up
new stars.

Speaker 4 (41:57):
So I want, I want, I want you guys on that.

Speaker 10 (42:00):
And also I would totally agree with what you said
on Tuesday.

Speaker 8 (42:04):
Wait about Roman that.

Speaker 10 (42:08):
You know, it feels more, It feels better when you
do when when you're like a wrestler and you do
it for the passion and you pay your dues like
everybody does.

Speaker 4 (42:19):
And you know when this guy going in an.

Speaker 10 (42:21):
Interview and says, oh, I just do what they tell me,
I hope they're rich like that, don't sing genuine you know,
I don't sing you don't have respect for a guy
like that. For Daniel Bryant, you got respect because we
see the videos so smacked that he used to be
American Dragon and he was trying to do it. Took
him fifteen years to get what he wanted. You know,

(42:42):
That's why I got to take that all right.

Speaker 1 (42:44):
Great, thank you, h P. Yeah. I mean your assessment
to what he said specifically and maybe just in general too,
Roman reigns well.

Speaker 4 (42:53):
I mean, you know one of the things is, you know,
even the let's go back to how Goldberg you know
got over uh, you know, it just it was a
slower burn and uh, you know, and they just booked
him and put him in the best situations to succeed
the way they wanted to promote him. I know, Roman
could work. He's a different kind of animal, you know,
he's you know, I think he's got all the the

(43:16):
tangibles to to go a long way and to be
a big main event, uh superstar in the business. I
just think, you know, it's like the TNA problem. It's
like you once you've you've screwed up, you know, and
they've screwed up for so many years. No, but even
if they're doing good stuff, is willing to give him
a chance. And I think now it's like you missed

(43:37):
the boat on making him kind of the people's sky.
And well, you know, we fans are smart. They're so
intelligent now that like, okay, you tried to shove them
down our throats, We didn't buy it. Now they're trying
to pull back, but they'll always have that caution uh,
that caution flag up because they know deep down that
Vince really wants.

Speaker 9 (43:54):
To go this guy.

Speaker 4 (43:56):
And it's almost like a spiteful thing that they don't
want to cheer for Vince. Guys in some ways, you know,
are the guys we are being told to cheer for,
so to speak. You know, they should really let guys
happen as much as possible. I mean, I know it's
easier said than tom. Sometimes it just doesn't connect that quickly,
but you know that that would be ideal, you know,

(44:16):
go slow.

Speaker 1 (44:18):
And there's this novel concept that Todd Martin on the
VIP Audio show to Fix said a few weeks back,
which is listen to the crowd and if they cheer someone,
push them. Yeah you know. I mean, you know, if
they're cheering somebody who's who's a comedy act, I mean understand, Okay,
you know they're cheering them out of you know, not
not irony, but you know, it's an affection for somebody

(44:40):
they don't expect to be a main eventor but if
it's a serious wrestler who maybe doesn't fit your definition
of the number one gutta push, but your customer base
is really excited about them, maybe don't make it more
complicated than it has to be. Just start pushing. Yeah,
you know, it's it does sometimes seem like they make
it harder. Vince makes it harder than it should be. Peter,

(45:01):
I want to talk to you about your retirement match,
and you said your decision to retire. You mentioned it, uh,
kind of announced it that it was coming up earlier
this year. You said it was coming up later this
year on this show. And how did you pick out
what your last match was going to be and and
talk about that night and the emotions of you know,
getting your gear on for the last time and wrestling

(45:24):
and saying goodbye to the fans.

Speaker 4 (45:27):
You know, I really didn't Uh, I don't know. It
wasn't you know, it wasn't as romantic because I wanted
to be The opportunity came about because it's a bigger
organization here in the Northeast called a pro wrestling syndicate.

Speaker 9 (45:40):
They do, uh they have you know, they pay.

Speaker 4 (45:42):
For their own little TV show on Saturday. So they
fell quite a quite good crowds and they offered me
the opportunity, and you know, I said sure because I
was going to finish up. You know, we'd either unceremoniously
or ceremonious, you know, in any way. So just you know,
just kind of happened. They chose Tommy Dreamer for me
to have my last match, and I was very nice.

(46:05):
You know, Ravens Scott Levy actually came out and said nice.
Speech would shock me because we don't know Raven. But
it was nice. And the fans were so generous, uh
they you know, they was sold out. The fans were
so generous. It was cool. It was very nice. But
I wasn't as emotional as I thought, unfortunately, And not

(46:25):
to pooh pooh on on anything that. You know, I've
been very blessed and fortunate, but I'm just wrestled out, man.
You know. My body starting to hurt, like my shoulders
really giving me a hard time. The business just isn't
maybe I you know, when you start talking like this
too much, maybe you are getting too old, you know.
You know I'm starting to you know, not that you know,

(46:48):
you always think that your ways is the best way,
and I might you know, maybe I'm behind the times,
you know, but anyway, it's just the business was just
I wasn't getting that thing out of it. I certainly
wasn't getting rich from it on the indie level. And
it's just time for me to go back to school
and do something different, you know, while I'm still young
enough forty two to be able to provide a somewhat successful,

(47:13):
you know, living for my family. You know, that's my
biggest concern.

Speaker 1 (47:16):
Oh, there's tons of people I know in their in
their mid or late thirties and their forties who change careers,
not because they have to or anything like that, but
sometimes because they just it's they wanted, they want another
chapter in their lives. And I mean the number of
adult students starting their careers later now is I think

(47:37):
at a probably an all time high. And I think
businesses like to hire people who have that real world experience.
I don't think that it's at all usually against people,
you know. I mean, obviously there's going to be some
age discrimination in certain areas, but I just I applaig
you for doing it, and I don't think that it's
as it's as rare as some people think it is

(47:57):
to to do what you're doing.

Speaker 11 (47:58):
Sure need an extra dose of positivity in your wrestling podcasts.
Will come join me Alan forel Over in the Progress
Paradise at Pterbo Torch vip as we mask on the
bright side of wrestling and focus on some of the
great matches and shows from around the world, be it
the US, Japan, Europe, or Mexico. There's always a place

(48:21):
for wrestlings past in the Paradise too, and we've done
fun historical shows such as the We Love Liger series
celebrating the glorious career of Jusian Thunderliger and our eye
was there when shows where our guests will join me
to talk about a classic bout that they were in
attendance for. We love variety and you can expect lots
of it at the Progress Paradise. Detailed PWO Torch VIP

(48:44):
subscription information and a list of all the VIP benefits
is available at pww torch vip info dot com. And yes,
all VIP podcasts are compatible with popular podcast apps on
iPhone and Android devices, or you can stream them directly
from our ad free VIP mobile site. See you in
the Paradise.

Speaker 4 (49:07):
Sure, And you know what too, I would have loved
to stay in wrestling. Uh you know, I've had conversations
with people from both promotions, you know, Impact Wrestling and uh,
you know w W. William some at the very top
of those promotions, and it just has not been any
kind of a bite, you know. So really my situation,

(49:28):
you know is just almost as I'm at a no
win where Look, it's time to stop playing wrestler. You're
obviously not making the money you need to and uh,
you know, maybe your time. And I want to be
one of those guys at sixty five having to make
the towns. You know, I want to have more more
of a you know, and I'll still be involved in
the business and make appearances and you know, do stuff

(49:48):
like that. But I just think right now, I just
want to focus on a different aspect of my life
other than al right, I got a you know, I
got homework or I'm trying to get this job, but
I got to make the towns right now. It's like
going to but wrestling out of my mind for a while,
and uh, you know, Stewart goes from there. Soon my
life takes me from here, you know, in a positive way.

Speaker 1 (50:06):
Well, you know how it works. As soon as you
get a good job a couple of years down the line,
you know, whenever you're you're yeah, that's when the phone
call will come in.

Speaker 4 (50:14):
You know, And that's when it happened. Yeah, it happened.
It happened to me in two thousand and six, when
i'd really written off, I'd done some stuff with P
and A and I had written off wrestling and I
started to look for work, and then Tommy Dreamer called
me about One Night's Stand and then they got the
contract for the UEC DU and I'd completely said I'm
done with it in my mind, and I was starting

(50:35):
to look elsewhere, you know, and then they just like
the Godfathers three, when I think I can get out,
they pulled me right back in.

Speaker 9 (50:43):
Oh so true.

Speaker 1 (50:44):
Yes, you know, yeah, well what do you what do you?
What do you think of T and A. I mean,
they've got their new deal on Pop TV coming up.
The top executive there sounds very excited about the prospects
of growing that brand, very impressed by Dixie Car's presentation.
It brings new life into the company. They've got the

(51:04):
special coming up the first Tuesday in January. They will
be a Tuesday night wrestling program. So those of you
who felt empty on the inside because there wasn't a
new wrestling show on Tuesday nights like there is Mondays, Wednesday,
Thursdays and Fridays, Well in twenty sixteen, you'll get your
wish rest fresh programming every night of the week. When

(51:25):
New Japan is on on Fridays, at least, and and
TNA's making that possible. What do you think about what
you've seen from them the last couple of years and
they're kind of their place in history, and how does
all the lessons WWE might be teaching the industry apply
to them?

Speaker 4 (51:42):
Man, you know, GNA has been you know, they've They've
tried so hard. And in the beginning, I would say,
I don't know from getting my years accurate, but from
the two thousand and four, two thousand and five, two
thousand and six times, they really started to make a
name for themselves with the kind of action and that

(52:03):
X division and you know, the emergence of AJ Styles
and some other very talented guys and some of the legends.
You know, they were doing okay, but then they they
you know, the hul COGANSA and look, I love Hulk,
but then they started going old. And I don't mean
bringing in the older guy because I'm old too. I

(52:25):
don't mind that. I'm just saying, you just can't make
it about, you know, giving all your money to Hulk
Sting Flair, you know, and Jeff Carett was still around
at the time, and you know, it just feels like
W CW Light, which you know, if the real w
CW couldn't beat O WWE, what makes you think that
this is going to even grasp with any of the fans.
They spent a ton of money. If you had just

(52:46):
given somebody a quarter of the buddy that they have
spent to do an old school and to you know,
maybe not be a national promotion, but be a successful
wrestling promotion, we could have probably made more money with
the money she's have. The money she spent, you know,
just running towns and having a TV show, then she
probably did trying a big shot and unfortunately too much

(53:08):
too soon. Now can it be fixed? It's hard because
even they got a lot of good talent, you know,
they they got a lot of good stuff going on
with the restructuring of the company. You know, I have
friends there that I've spoken to, and there's some frustrating
parts about what goes on over there because unfortunately, you know,
a lot of the decisions go in hands with people

(53:29):
that are non resting people, and which is amazing because
there's so many people out there, smart minds in this
business that aren't working. You know, you just I don't know.
I think they have a great opportunity. But they really
are going to have to be different, you know, they're
gonna have to be just really like I said, just
present it more like a sport. Try to really get

(53:53):
you know, all your characters over as best you can.
Don't have those screwy finishes, you know, just take it
a little and bad acting. If we want to watch
bad act acting, we'll watch Springer Wills's those you know,
Smory Covid. You know, let's watch some good quest going
because they've got some of the greatest athletes you know around,
you know, let's do it, you know, and show them

(54:14):
why you're different than w W. We don't try to copy.

Speaker 9 (54:17):
Them, you know.

Speaker 1 (54:20):
It is a It was a funny thing I mentioned
sometimes how pro wrestling, uh they talk about They don't anymore, thankfully,
but they called it the reality era for a while,
which I just felt was very ironic because it's never
been more real. Everything is so scripted and and the
enough it's the inauthentic's I think it's the inauthent inauthenticity era,
where it's this sterile, pre scripted, tightly controlled environment that

(54:45):
that makes them a w W management feel comfortable. But
I think it makes fans feel less enthusiastic about the product.
I was listening to talk radio and somebody brought up
and they're just a about bad reality shows, and they
said that the show on Bravo vander Pump Brules, I
think it's called, and they're like, yeah, those the complaint.
The woman said, they don't even pretend that what they're

(55:06):
doing is real and that the situations aren't just orchestrated.
And I thought it was funny, and I found that
poignant justin because I think what she was saying is
she wants to suspend her disbelief when she watches reality TV.
She knows stuff is pre orchestra or orchestrated ahead of time.
She knows that some of the characters are edited a
certain way and they play up certain things. But at
least when you watch a reality show, they give you

(55:28):
that story to believe in, and they're consistent, and they
try to make it seem somewhat impromptu, somewhat unscripted. And
her complaint was, I want a reality show that treats
me like a mark in a in a professional way,
like let me mark out for it, don't shove in
my face that it's not real. And I think, you
know what, That's what WWE doesn't seem to get, is

(55:51):
that just because people know, pro wrestling is as orchestrated
and manipulated as reality television. And I don't mean Survivor,
but I mean you know the ones you know, a
housewife shows or the you know whatever that that that
that ILK that's personality driven, not contest driven, and those
those shows are a better example of what pro wrestling

(56:14):
used to be, which is give viewers a story to
believe and let them immerse themselves in the universe. It
seems to w WE just doesn't get that that's okay
to do that. You're not insulting anyone's intelligence. You're not
trying to pull the roll over their eyes. You're just
trying to give them a better show, a better experience.
As if you have.

Speaker 4 (56:30):
I would almost, you know, if wrestling had had had
you know, the guts to really you know. And I
don't trust a lot of the people that they have
in their inner workings because I don't find that they
were that successful in WWE. You know, you know, I'm
talking about over there, TNA, one of the head guys.
They should almost take it from an almost like presented

(56:50):
like ESPN, you know, and really try to to you know,
just give it a more a more different. I mean,
you're really going to have to go different, you know,
because there's so much banter if you watch those shows
and stuff like that, that that becomes part of the
story and you're telling the story through the tale of
the tape or through interviews or analysis, and you know,

(57:10):
it's just you know, I know, at first it'll be
very weird and you don't have to go strictly away
from entertainment part. But then you know, when you have
a press conference and you have the two guys standing
there instead of those cheesy in ring contract signings you
know like they used to do in Japan and they
do in the UFC, it looks more professional, and then
you can do all your little storylines from there, and
you know it doesn't have to be that bad acting.

(57:32):
You could really just get pumped up, you know if
these UFC guys make it believable. I mean, you know
a lot of the stuff they do pre you know,
like to promote the shows or just hyped and promos.
You know, the stuff they do in there is a shoot,
I believe, but you know they still use a very
pro wrestling style way to sell the shows. And I
still think that that could still sell shows, you know, yeah,

(57:54):
I do know, instead of copying you know the Vince
you know.

Speaker 1 (57:58):
Yes, all right, well let's uh, let's go ahead take
other call here. Let's go to eight six two, next
day six two. Please state your name and where you're calling.

Speaker 7 (58:04):
From, Kid from New Jersey.

Speaker 1 (58:08):
Thanks for calling, Colin? What have you got for just
to today?

Speaker 12 (58:12):
Okay?

Speaker 7 (58:13):
My first question for you, c Jay is.

Speaker 13 (58:18):
Can can legendary wrestling names such as Jerry Jared or
Kevin Chulvan who are didn't back into the business today
survide in this relatively down trotten quids that we have?

Speaker 1 (58:46):
Go ahead, Peter, what was it?

Speaker 13 (58:50):
Is?

Speaker 9 (58:50):
The question?

Speaker 4 (58:51):
More like? How would your products here today?

Speaker 9 (58:53):
Or?

Speaker 1 (58:54):
Colin? Correct me if I'm wrong, But I think what
he's saying is would some of the smart names from
the past be helpful in correcting the course of today
some of the people in Yeah?

Speaker 4 (59:06):
I think, Look, I don't It doesn't necessarily have to
be those folks, you know, but I think that there
are enough minds, you know that that can certainly help.
You know, you know, this isn't you know, wrestling. Wrestling
is not like a movie. You know, you're not writing
like how you write for the Walking Dead for example,

(59:28):
you know, and that's how they try to kind of
do it leading to their seasons, you know, their their
pay per views or special events, et cetera. And I
think you just really need some old school, you know,
basics to add on to the maybe the more of
the Hollywood stuff, you know, but you just need some continuity.
And I think continuity bothers a lot of fans on

(59:49):
both in both organizations of the storylines.

Speaker 7 (59:52):
You know, go ahead, Colin, okay, question the two.

Speaker 12 (01:00:01):
And you know, more of the human being then then
the character per se t J question number two. Boy,
you how much control does Paul Levett, the man as

(01:00:23):
opposed to a troupolate the character really have over today's
current w W Reed.

Speaker 4 (01:00:33):
Yeah, well, they'll keep it really quick. I don't think,
you know, I think there's not much of a difference
anymore between the corporate PAULOVC and Triple Ah. I think
they're both very oddly spliced together. The Hunter, I know
and remember, was very much you know, funny guy, tell

(01:00:55):
jokes and stuff like that. But he's you know, there's
other sides to him that I wouldn't know about today,
So I think it's just a I don't know man.
I think they're more of the same person in reality
and in the ring kind of they smelled it into one.
And don't think he knows where one ends and one
or the other begins. Because of the full time nature
of what he does. It's a very surreal and weird

(01:01:16):
life just to be in that position, you know, twenty
four to seven, as they say they do it.

Speaker 1 (01:01:24):
Anytime you're watching WWE Raw or SmackDown or aw Dynamite
in particular, send us an email if you've got thoughts
on the show or a topic you want us to
address or a question for us. Wadekeller Podcast at pwtorch
dot com. Weadkeller Podcast at pewtorch dot com. If there's
anything else going on in pro wrestling that you want
us to address on our main podcast during our Mailbank segments,

(01:01:46):
that same email applies Wade Keller Podcast at pwtorch dot com.
We invite that interaction. Let us know what you think
of what we're saying, and let us know what you
want us to talk about and ask us specific questions
wad Keller podcast at ples Towards dot com. Your personal opinion,
because nobody would know for sure, But how how much
confident confidence would Vincent Man have had and how much

(01:02:09):
of a confidant which H have become had he not
married Stephanie McMahon. Obviously Triple H was a big star
before dating Stephanie. But would he was he the type
of person from what you knew, who would have been
able to uh and and been coveted by vincac Mann
to be in a powerful executive position.

Speaker 4 (01:02:30):
I think it would have happened to some degree. I
don't think it would have possibly gone on the trusting
level that it is today. I mean, you know, but
the opportunity of Stephanie, you know, dating Paul and bringing
him around is you know too, you get to know
the real you know, what what your daughter feels is
his real intentions, and maybe a little closer than Vince
would get to know him, and you know, and obviously

(01:02:51):
they have a lot of trust in him, and they should.
I think he's done. He's done great things with n XT.
And it's also believe it or not from what I
hear too, I mean, obviously he has a of power.
But the balance of power there is not as simple
as you know, you know, unless you're the old man,
you just not everybody could just sit there and override something.
From what I you know, I'm sure he could if
you really wanted to. You don't like to step on toes.

(01:03:13):
So I think even for him clearing stuff through events
not even knowing what is you know, I don't know
what is his what he feels about the business and
the direction it should be going in. But I don't know.
I mean, you know, I just think there's more things
that play there with committees and all these people, and
finally what stops at the top with Stephanie Hunter and

(01:03:34):
in Vince and Kevin Dunn. Was a huge name that
we don't speak of enough. I think he's a big
problem in the way that things are headed.

Speaker 1 (01:03:43):
UH. Your experience with Triple H when you were around him,
Describe what he was like then in terms of ambition,
in terms of how smart he seemed when it came
to the UH, the way the industry went, how much
of a student of the game he was. Was he
wrapped up and promoting himself. Was he someone who talked

(01:04:03):
a lot about other talent and seemed to have a
good eye for things. What was your impression of him
before he gained the power they had.

Speaker 4 (01:04:10):
He was always very very folid as far as you know,
got up, took care of his business, was a professional.
He was dressing up, you know, in a blazer and
a jack you know, and a suit tie sometimes to
the shows before other people were doing it, just because
Ada was his gimmick as the blue blood and he
wanted to you know, look professional, you know, in the

(01:04:32):
way he carried himself. Always at first, the very first
year he was there, we traveled just him and I
split rooms down the middle for a good you know,
six to ten months, I would say, you know, and
that's you know, depending on which tour you were on,
or go with Razor if Paul was on the other tour.
So you know, we always looked up regardless of who

(01:04:53):
was on our shows. But with Paul, he watched every match,
always was you know, picking Sean and and other agents
who had been there. Pat Patterson especially, everybody picked Pat
Patterson's brain. He's very you know, he was legendary at
what he did, you know, and very smart man. So
everybody always talked to him so I think he worked

(01:05:16):
real hard and he would uh, he's a big student
of the game. And of course some of it was
self promotion, but you got to you know, because then
it's all of what he says played, you know, played
the game. He played the game. You know, he played
the game. But to every to every degree, you know,
he also worked hard and acted like a pro too.

(01:05:36):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:05:37):
Did he seem like somebody who, if he gained power,
would be on the side of empowering the wrestlers and
the talent, or did he seem like somebody who was
just a boss waiting to happen, you know, you know,
if you know what I mean, that's.

Speaker 4 (01:05:50):
A good question. Man. He always saw him as one
of the boys. But you can only be one of
the boys or you know, the office. You can't be boked.
It's real hard to be both, you know, because just
in the nature of the struggle of you know, management,

(01:06:11):
you know, it's just it's hard. So do I think
he would do I think he tries to do what
he feels is right for the business. I still believe
he likes the pro wrestling aspect of our business, you know,
So I you know, but I just think they're also
very stuck in their ways of you know, now they've

(01:06:34):
isolated themselves and really, you know, they've done a better
job with gathering some talent from the indie scene recently
in the past couple of years, especially, you know, the
Samoa Joe's and Kevin Owens coming up to the main roster.
But I don't know if that's going to be enough
for this for for I don't know. I think there
needs to be something else to happen. You know, I

(01:06:57):
don't see anybody. I'll tell you what. I don't see
anybody that's there now doing anything for any any type
of big box office. I don't see him. He's not
in the main roster yet.

Speaker 6 (01:07:05):
Wow.

Speaker 4 (01:07:06):
Yeah, you know, in my opinion, I mean, I don't
know if you see it differently. I don't mean the
brock Lesners and the established guy, but the next big
guy to you know, like a rock or a you know,
a young stud I'm not seeing it.

Speaker 1 (01:07:19):
I don't think anybody who I think the problem is
anybody with that potential, if they had, it has been
defined down as something less than that. Because w WJ
hasn't other than Roman reigns, they haven't really in Seth Rowland.
I guess you could say everybody else been kind of
defined down as an even Stephen supporting cast role, and
it's hard when you're established as that or defined as

(01:07:41):
that to break past it. You know, Steve Austin was
a prelim guy for very long, if he was ever
a prelim guy, but you know he wasn't in the
main events instantly, I understand, and you know he rose
the top quickly, and I just this idea that you
got to wait. You know, Kevin ashes off and said, oh,
take six years to really fablish yourself and be recognized
as a big enough name to be a top draw.

(01:08:03):
And I just don't think that rule applies. And maybe
I'm oversimplifying as argument, but if that is his argument,
I would disagree with it. I think sometimes when you
arrive on the main roster, the time to strike is
within you know, three to six months. You need to
tell fans, which they could have done with Kevin Owens,
for instance, this guy's something special and he's beating people
that no one else can beat in the way that

(01:08:24):
he's beating him, and then it gets exciting. He's the rigedier,
He's the new sensation, and so I think they have
to look to NXT for those people if they're going
to take that approach. I want to go back to
Kylin and see if he does have a third topic force.
He's still on hold, Colin, do you have a third
topic force?

Speaker 7 (01:08:37):
Yeah? And my favent question is do you believe that
someone like Scott Hall or you would be a welcome
addition in terms of training or creative to day because

(01:08:59):
I'm aware that Scott is now being looked at for
some type of consulting role and Wade has express that
he's s over.

Speaker 12 (01:09:12):
So Scott would inject the sense of realness or.

Speaker 7 (01:09:20):
This needs the sick.

Speaker 1 (01:09:22):
Yeah. I think what you're getting at is I've said
I think Scott has won a good mind for the
business into a bluntness. He doesn't. He's not gonna kiss
ass and play that game, at least to Scott Hallerd
I've always heard about and.

Speaker 4 (01:09:34):
Knowing right, I agree. I mean, you know Scott has
see Scott is he got everything you know from those
old A W A days. He learned a lot of
there and when what he really really broke through was
with that Intercontinental series title series again, Shawn Michaels. I

(01:09:57):
mean back then the house shows were there were a
lot more of them, so they worked every single night
before you saw that big WrestleMania ten match, you know,
and they had all kinds of you know, stiles of
matches during that run and that's when they really Scott
really became great and you know, getting to work with
Kurt Handing as well. So I mean Scott is very

(01:10:19):
good at communicating. Uh, he's uh, he's he's more of
a guy that that'll get in there and he'll talk
to you, but he goes into great detail and he'll
tell you and he'll explain why. And he's very good
at teaching timing as well. Timing is very important in
our business. People never never really realize the importance of timing.

(01:10:40):
So yeah, I think he'd be great if you could, uh,
if you could keep the keep the you know, his
his heart in the into it and really you know,
push himself to doing a pastellar job.

Speaker 1 (01:10:51):
He would I think having Scott Hall around, if he
was fearless and not political because he just wanted to
PA would be so valuable to Vince McMahon right now
and whether it was you know, and he'd be valuable
to just be somebody to tell some guys what they
need to hear. And it doesn't mean Scott's always right.
But Scott can be blunt, he can be moody, he

(01:11:14):
can be rude and unforgiving. Yeah, but he's always smart.
And I think ultimately anything he said in that position
would be to try to make things better. And I
think his batting average would be high in terms of
being right. And when he was wrong, he'd be very
wrong because he went hedge. But I think you need

(01:11:34):
more people like that to correct course.

Speaker 4 (01:11:37):
Yeah, I think so. I think that, And that's the
problem that businesses is to such a way that it's
very hard during a living year. So guys are not
going to rock the boat, and the last thing they
want to do is tip any you know, say anything improper,
or go against something against the grain, you know. And yeah,
that would be, you know, something very useful if Scott
were to his stag roo himself, like you said, did

(01:11:58):
not you know, walk on.

Speaker 1 (01:11:59):
End over there, Peach. We're just about out of time here.
I've got a run out about a quarter after, so
we're right at that point. Is there anything that you've
seen on raw or other shows that's been kind of
innoway at you that in a negative way, or that
you want to kind of go out of your way
to say more of that. I like what I've seen
anything on TV recently that jumps out to you that

(01:12:21):
you want to bring up before we wrap up.

Speaker 4 (01:12:23):
In full disclosure, I haven't watched a full episode in
i'd say three or four weeks. A lot of it
doesn't have to do with just my disdain for the storylines,
but my wife had just recent surgery last week and
I've been full time kid taking care of everything around you.
But from what I have you know, but from what
I have seen, I just I'm not again, it's not excited.

(01:12:48):
I'm not excited when a certain storyline happens, or you know,
the title. When the tournament, I thought we might have
been promising, but at the end it didn't excite me.
And the cashing in you know where they go with it.
But obviously Seamus is nothing more than a transitional champion.
So I mean, it's just I'm just not excited about
the product, you know, And I can understand. I'm not

(01:13:08):
saying that there's nothing that they cannot fix. I mean,
you know, they could turn it around quickly, I'm sure
if they wanted to, but you know it's going to
take a while of somebody with a real direction, and
let's stay the course. You know. We unfortunately, we don't
give a lot of characters. You know, if they fail
on raw one or two times, we'll just keep putting
them out there, not changing the approach, but expecting a

(01:13:31):
different results. Like the fly trying to get out of
the window. They keep hitting their heads, you know, and
if it is they just you know, you put a
guy out there, he's not working with the way you're
presenting him. Maybe try to switch it a little bit.
I mean, just don't let them keep throwing these guys
out there until fans see him as Jabron's. Then they'll
never believe in you and you end up being a
fendango or guys like that, you know that really never

(01:13:53):
go anywhere, you know, because fans already labeled you what
you are.

Speaker 1 (01:13:57):
You know, Peche always great on the show. We'll do
it again soon down the line. Wailing, appreciate your time.
Send best wishes to your wife and your whole family,
and congratulations on embarking on a new career and in
a new education. And starting a new chapter. But we
hope you'll keep watching wrestling and uh and we can

(01:14:18):
have you back on to hopefully update some improvements as
we head towards wrestling.

Speaker 4 (01:14:22):
It absolutely man, I'm always there for you. Thank you
so much, waiting for you and everybody at PW torch
dot com.

Speaker 1 (01:14:28):
And I've got to say too, do you have anything
to plug? I always I would like to get tune
about any dates or Twitter anything.

Speaker 4 (01:14:37):
Sure? Sure, Uh kick out my Pro Wrestling one oh
one series on YouTube. Just go right up to the
search bar and type in pro Wrestling one oh one
and over fifty. You know, instructional style videos on a
lot of the stuff that Wade and Night we're talking about.
So check that out. Uh. Follow me at Twitter at
PJ Palaco, p O L A c O and UH

(01:14:59):
the Just Incredible dot com for the latest don merchandise
and stuff like that.

Speaker 1 (01:15:05):
Excellent. Thank you so much. Thanks all right, Thanks Peege.
We'll talk to you soon. And thanks to our callers
and of course to all of our listeners here at
PW torchlivecast dot com. You can subscribe in iTunes or
on any popular podcast app, and you can find links
to all our shows atwtorch dot com. Thanks everybody that

(01:15:26):
does it for me for today and until next time.
Next time I'll be on the show is next Tuesday
with Jason Powell from Progressling dot net. This is Wade
Keller signing off. If you missed it earlier, just a reminder,
we're running our second VIP sale of the year. We

(01:15:47):
don't do these often, take advantage of it now. It
is a limited to time offer. Take nine dollars off
a VIP subscription a one month, three month or one
year sub It brings the one month sub down to
just three dollars in ninety nine cents. The coupon code
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n V twenty twenty five, and that takes nine dollars
off When you check out on our sign up form

(01:16:08):
pw torch dot com slash go v IP give you
full details on membership benefits and links to our sign
up form.

Speaker 14 (01:16:18):
Hello you people, Today Wednesday, December to Night twenty fifteen,
I am your host, Pat mcfeil bringing you today's in
stamming up the longest running weekday episodic wrestling podcast in
the world. This is the PW towrch Live Cast and
Wednesday Wednesday intro song is support for Kings by Kids
on Bridges There. The official artist is the PW towrch

(01:16:40):
Live Cast and they're available on iTunes. Meanwhile, we are
coming at you with sixty plus minutes of wrestling and
fun and if you're not careful, you just might learn
something before we're done. We are taking your calls six four, six, seven, nine,
eight two eight here on blog Talk Radio. We are
taking your emails PW Torchlivecast at gmail dot com. Yes,
the chat room is open here at PW torchlivecast dot com,
and of course you can send in your Twitter messages

(01:17:03):
to us at real Pat McNeil. Thank you all for
joining us. By the way, if you tuned in a
day early, you may note that tomorrow Wade Keller is
scheduled to have on Hall of Fame announcer Jim Ross.
We're back on the program. That'll be tomorrow at five
pm Eastern, not today, but today we still have a
fine program for you. Let me see, I think we
have at least one of our scheduled guests online. So

(01:17:24):
hold on. Here we go, ladies and gentlemen, former television
producer and head honcho over at Mass Republic, putting together
helping to put together shows and sell Luca merchandise for
you do you want? And only? Kevin Kleinrock? How you doing,
Kevin Good?

Speaker 15 (01:17:40):
I think that was my first muppet to intro. I
like that nice?

Speaker 14 (01:17:44):
Oh you want to keep that one? Okay, yeah, okay, Well,
we are expecting to have Scott Fishman from the Miami Herald.
He should be let me see, he should be calling
in shortly. Unless I'm misunderstanding how this works. Okay, well,
I'll just keep an eye on him. It's six four
six seven two if he's listening. Okay, Now, Kevin, I
know that you are busy during this holiday season. I

(01:18:06):
would know that even if you haven't been messaging me
on Twitter with stuff about what is called what is
lucha loots? So why don't we just cover that briefly?

Speaker 8 (01:18:15):
Sure?

Speaker 16 (01:18:16):
You know so.

Speaker 15 (01:18:17):
One of the things that we've really been building from
Mass Republic over the last number of years is helping
Lucia Doors to exploit their own intellectual property and make
money themselves off of selling masks and T shirts and
you know, most the Lucha Libra merchandise out there is
pretty bootleg, and you know when you go to most
indie shows and you buy a Doctor Wagner mask, you

(01:18:38):
buy a you know, a random shirt. The Lucia Doors
are not seeing any money from that.

Speaker 4 (01:18:42):
So we've worked.

Speaker 15 (01:18:43):
Really hard to build lucashop dot com, which is, other
than buying from luch stores direct, probably the only way
to get official T shirts and masks and different things
from Luca Doors. And there's been such a great demand
for that that, you know, I've always wanted to if
I got ten years now, I wanted to do like
a mask the Month's Club where people could get a
new mask every month. And now with the blinds, you

(01:19:03):
get crazy. You know, you've got you've got loot create
and nerd create, and you've got your wrestling versions of that.
We decided to do an all lucaly Braces themed Luca
lout to create. So every month you get a new mask,
you get a T shirt, you get a copy of
our new English language Luca magazine called Rudo Can't Fail,
and you get a bunch of other things depending on

(01:19:25):
your level of membership. And to me, one of the
best parts about it is everything is one hundred percent
officially licensed, so lucadors are either seeing direct cash from
the sales or they're getting copies of the merchandise that
we're making for them so they can sell. It's pretty
cool and start at twenty bucks. We also have like
gift cards for it now, so if people aren't themselves

(01:19:46):
into Lucha Libraids, but they have a friend that's in
the Lucca Libraids, then they can either buy them a
gift subscription or a gift card and it's all at
Luta lout dot com. But your your pro wrestling torch
from Patriot Sean Radikin is actually giving one away. Yes,
he gave one away and he's gonna be giving another

(01:20:06):
one away through his Twitter. So if you don't follow
Sean already, which you should, make sure you follow him
so you have a chance of winning Luca Luke Cret.

Speaker 14 (01:20:16):
Yes, his Twitter account is Sean Radikin. It's a really
difficult one to uh. I think most of you can
find it, and yeah, I mean definitely, yeah, definitely. If
you have a chance to win free loot from UH
from Luca Lute and from the torch, you know, I
would definitely uh, I would definitely take that. Now you
also have you know, you also sort of have your
finger on the pulse of what's going on there, and

(01:20:37):
every so often you let us know about big Luca
events coming up. Is there anything on the horizon this
holiday season like that?

Speaker 4 (01:20:44):
Uh?

Speaker 15 (01:20:45):
You know it's uh if you're in Mexico, there's a
lot of shows going on around Christmas holiday. But you know,
in the US you have your Internationally, i'd say, you
have your your spattering events here there. One of the
things that's pretty cool is, I don't know if you
guys are so aware of it yet, but there's a
newer group that started out of Toronto, Canada called Lucia

(01:21:10):
Toronto absolutely absolutely titled, and they started running some really
great shows, mixing local UH Toronto talent with some of
the top indie guys in the US and bringing in
at least one or two kind of Mexican headliners every show.
They've got an event coming up in January that's actually
a fundraiser for a local.

Speaker 8 (01:21:31):
A local UH.

Speaker 15 (01:21:33):
Special Need Children charity, which is obviously for me very
close to my heart, being the father of two specially
needs kids. And they're bringing in La Park and Pantera
for the show. So people who don't know about Luca
Toronto yet she definitely check them out on on social
media and on uh you know, on Facebook and whatnot.

Speaker 14 (01:21:52):
I mean, I mean, I remember a decade ago where
Sammy's aim started out as in Montreal as a lucha door.
So you know there's a there's obviously you know, there's
actually president for this, and I know there's a lot
of good talent in the Toronto wrestling scene. In the meantime,
I believe we have our other guests here on Standby,
Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome from the Miami Herald, mister
Scott Fishman. Scott, how you doing.

Speaker 15 (01:22:15):
I'm good.

Speaker 3 (01:22:15):
Sorry, I'm a little late today. Okay, technical technology issues,
so you know how that goes.

Speaker 14 (01:22:22):
Yes, unfortunately I do, all right? So well, Scott, let
us know. I mean, you know, in fact, you got
introduced on the site today as wrestling interviewer Scott Fishman.
So I guess I should ask what's the what's the
next big interview that we can expect from you?

Speaker 3 (01:22:38):
Well, I don't know if it's the next big interview,
but I just posted an interview with Murphy nx EH
Channel guy. Yeah, channel Guide website. So he talks about
being the first Australian born wrestler to become a ww champ,
a w B champion champion, talks about working with Blake,
how Dusky Rhodes served as a tour to him, working

(01:23:01):
with Alexa Bliss, and you know, some different things he
talks about. So definitely worth a read. And that's on
the channel Guide blog website actually, which I've been writing.

Speaker 16 (01:23:09):
For lately now.

Speaker 14 (01:23:11):
Yeah, I've noticed that even though you know, even though
maybe WWE Raw and SmackDown aren't aren't as popular and
as don't have as many viewers as they much as
once they have, the nxt is still it's still a
hot property.

Speaker 3 (01:23:26):
Yeah, I mean, there's so many people that watch it now,
you like, even talks about it. You get recognized now
in the supermarket, I mean, the WWE network, a lot
of people watching how Destination programming Wednesday Night more than
Raw Tanson nowadays. A lot of times, if you you know,
you go by what you here on Twitter and social media.

Speaker 14 (01:23:43):
Of course I don't know about that, but you know,
people definitely seem a little more enthusiastic about watching nxt
is as they do, you know, watching rob. Some of
it might be because NXT, you know, raw's three hours
and fifteen minutes an NXT or NXT you get a nice,
tidy hour wrestling and you're you know, you're ready for more.
I guess, but I don't have to tell you that.

(01:24:06):
Let's see. So it's great having both of you on
six four six eight. We have let's say we have
I think listen email, let's see. Oh, Sammy okay, here
we go. We we I don't really have a breaking
news sound effect at the moment, but uh, the the
hot tip that we're getting is that tomorrow in Newcastle, uh,

(01:24:27):
Sammy z Aine will have his comeback and will be
uh wrestling Finn Balor. So uh that's that's that's pretty
big news. Good to good. It'll be good to have
Samy zein back. All Right, we're gonna we're gonna try
this out. We're going to go to the telephones. We're
we're very brave here six four six eight, we're going
to kick things off. We have the two four oh

(01:24:47):
area code two four oh hold on, let me get
this going. Shoot, I'm sorry, guys, speaking of technical problems.
I know I have this, Ammar okay, too far. Oh
please state your name in town. You're on the live
cast with Scott.

Speaker 17 (01:25:01):
This is Ryan from Crumblin, Maryland.

Speaker 14 (01:25:03):
Hello.

Speaker 17 (01:25:03):
Ryan, first question for you is about start up the TNA.
If you were to sign some new acquisitions as far
as wrestlers or commentators, managers, referees, who would you sign
for the relaunch.

Speaker 14 (01:25:19):
This Well, I mean my first concern would be where
I would get the money to sign anybody for a
relaunch since, you know, since in the past two years,
we've gone from TNA earning about thirteen million a year
from Spike TV for Impact to in twenty sixteen them
earning nothing from Pop TV. I mean, I mean, there

(01:25:40):
are people out there. I mean, it's just a question
of you know, finding Uh, it's just a question of
how much you're you're willing to spend. And TNA is
I know that they're trying to keep costs down. I
think they've been doing a decent job with that. Let's see, Kevin,
what any hot prospects that do you think that TNA
should be going after.

Speaker 15 (01:26:00):
Yeah, you know, I mean I think well, for first
the question really, you know, now they're on Pop TV
and what is that audience that's on pop TV going
to be looking for. And one thing I feel kind
of unfortunately for TNA, is that, just like in the past,
they would sign the big name former WW superstars like
Kevin Nashes and the you know, basically anyone that's coming

(01:26:21):
out of WW. I think that to get attention on
the on pop and to find audience that doesn't already
know of TNA, it might take doing some of those
things that are possibly progressive for the product itself but
might bring eyeballs in terms of like top independent talent
to sign. And like certain guys that I'm really big on,
I don't think it's you know, these are secrets, but

(01:26:42):
guys like Tommy En, who is probably honestly in the
evolved system now because you'll probably end up going to NAT,
going to W but you know, people people like that,
you know, a to anyone that's near the top or
middle of the evolved card. Those are guys that people
should be looking at.

Speaker 4 (01:27:02):
You know.

Speaker 15 (01:27:02):
It's it'll be interesting to see what they do because
I feel like as much as they have this amazing
test on factor and they have managed to stay alive
for so long, I'm constantly you know, questioning myself what
possibly could be done to to bring them either back
to where they were or to the next level. And

(01:27:23):
I don't know that any piece of talent or a
few pieces of talent is gonna is gonna make a
huge difference over there.

Speaker 14 (01:27:29):
Okay, Scott, you know what Florida is U is the
place to go if you're an indie wrestler looking to
you know, looking to crack a roster somewhere. Have you
seen any guys that you think would qualify, Well, we
have we have run.

Speaker 3 (01:27:44):
In Wrestling now, which is bringing some independent talent like
next month, agreeing check Taylor and Trent Burretta and but
I agree with you guys as far as like bringing
in a top name, I don't know if that will
have a long term impact. I mean, you want to
get people to watching the show, but I think they
need in order to really build an as, they really
just need to, you know, have these great have good
matches and compelling television. I think that was actually a

(01:28:05):
really good time for teenage to have sort of quote launcher,
have this like fresh take on things because of what's
going on with WWE, and maybe you know, people are
disenfranchised with that and not happy with the way things
are going, So this is an opportunity for them maybe
to be the alternative finally going back to the basics
of what rostins of the dance, and that was, you know,
their wrestling ability, mean, their talent roster was never the issue.

(01:28:29):
It was always you know, whatever kind of direction they
were going creatively or everything that was happening behind the
scenes and just get putting it like a bad taste
in people's mouth. It was like a drum clout over
their heads the last couple of months when you know,
they had all these months of television tapes and you
know everything, everybody already knew what was going on behind
the scenes, and that kind of hurts their product of

(01:28:49):
what you're saying on TV. I mean, lately they've been
you know, the focus is about on this World Final series,
and I mean I didn't really like how they went
into it, but I've actually enjoyed, i mean, you know,
ignoring what's been going on backstage, but ignoring that and
then watching the product for what it is and the wrestling,
you know, is very wrestling centric, which I enjoy. So
I think if they focus on that and people will

(01:29:11):
watch it if they get a nice little buzz going,
and then I think focusing on who they're going to
bring in, I think I don't know if they should
necessarily do that. You want to bring one or two
recognizable names, like I mean, I don't know if they
want to bring in more ww guys, but maybe like
a Simmy Allen even or Brad Maddocks even. These are
guys that you know, weren't getting that opportunity that they
have this platform now where they can bring in guys

(01:29:32):
and develop some sort of buzz. But I think the buzz,
real buzz, would be just having good matches and going
back to the basics and trying to be different than
what you're seeing on WWE's television these days.

Speaker 18 (01:29:48):
Longing for some nostalgia or maybe you want to learn
some wrestling history, don't miss the nineties pass cast Every
Friday on the PW Towards Daily Cast Feed. Alex and
Patrick will transport are you thirty years into the past
by taking you through the Torch issue from that very week.
Follow news from the WWF and WCW and all the

(01:30:08):
happenings from across the wrestling industry in real time as
The Torch reported it thirty years ago. That's the nineties
pass cast every Friday on the PW Torch Daily Cast Feed.

Speaker 14 (01:30:28):
Yeah, I mean I would, you know, if it were,
I mean, I would probably be focusing on guys who
are on you know, look look for guys who are
on Ring of Honor TV who are not under contract.
Look for guys who are in evolved that haven't really
you know, hit the ww radar, and and they're still
gonna be gonna be some wrestlers you know, who have
who have sort of left TNA, but they're not really

(01:30:49):
signed anywhere else that they'll probably cycle back through. And
you know, if you're using them for five or sixty
if you're using them for three or four episodes at
a time, that's fine. I mean, but I don't know
that there's the you know, I don't know if there's
that one hot piece of talent that's gonna that's gonna
rescue TNA. I mean, you know, Ricochet is pretty good.
I Combat Zone has some have some good wrestlers, but

(01:31:11):
you know, the anybody who's hot is going to is
probably going to end up getting a w W try
out before anything else. So you're looking, You're looking, You're
trying to look in places where nobody else is looking.

Speaker 8 (01:31:22):
I mean, a R.

Speaker 14 (01:31:22):
Fox is a name that you know, you could probably
he's not going to be on the radar, you can probably,
you know, you could probably bring him in and he
has a look and and he can do some unique moves.
Other than that, you know, other than that, I don't,
I don't know what to tell you. What's your next question?

Speaker 7 (01:31:38):
Right?

Speaker 17 (01:31:39):
The question is about the Wrestling Observer Hall of Fame.
Do you know anyone that's responsible for getting uh for that,
like for a certain wrestler getting in?

Speaker 14 (01:31:54):
Do you mean, do I know any of the voters
a raid.

Speaker 17 (01:31:58):
Your guests that he's some of these letters are It
seems like it might be a Mexican influence because a
lot of the Mexican wrestlers seem to get in. There's
like a good man of is to get in there.

Speaker 15 (01:32:11):
People who who vote for that, and they break it
down and you really only get to vote for the
categories that you kind of know about and are aware about.
For the most part, they try to limit it, and but.

Speaker 4 (01:32:26):
The pool is huge.

Speaker 15 (01:32:27):
I mean, I'm sure that it's at this point in
excess of you know, a few hundred people that are
casting votes.

Speaker 14 (01:32:34):
Yeah, I don't want to. I don't want to put
you off, really, but if you want to know about
the Wrestling Observer Hall of Fame balloting process, there's a
guy who hosts on Friday who does that every year.
His name is Bruce Mitchell, and he could probably answer
those questions a lot better than I could. What else?

Speaker 17 (01:32:49):
And my final question is what's the greatest phetograph you've
taken in wrestling? Like being a journalist for the newspaper.

Speaker 14 (01:32:59):
Okay, well, so that's for Scott. Scott. What's Scott, what's
your favorite wrestling photograph you've taken?

Speaker 3 (01:33:05):
I don't know, because you know, I'm not really known
for like my photographs on now like a George Napolotado
type or anything like that. But I mean, I just
recall different memories of one of the few times that
I did like kind of like shoot at as you
could say. It was the old MLW shows. I think
were great because they were just fun to see all
these guys even today like Sam punk and but back

(01:33:26):
then like Steve Carino and Harry Funk. And I'm sure
you cover photographing that and some autograph signings now looking
back now, I really appreciate my time, you know at
the Matra man Ready Savage running autographs of this. This
is support towards the end of his career though, so
he was promoting his rap album just to put a
time stamp on that. And then also I think it

(01:33:47):
was that was Eddie Guerrero did the signing down here
in South Florida, a local kmart, and so just seeing
him interact with the fans and just capturing those moments,
I think that was gave me a good appreciation for it.
But as far as like photos, I'm not really predominantly
known for that, but you know, I look back at
when I just cover you know, these local events, these
local autograph signings. That's what I take from it.

Speaker 14 (01:34:10):
Okay, yeah, Kevin, I know that you're also not primarily
a photographer. But is there anything that sticks out for you?

Speaker 9 (01:34:18):
Uh?

Speaker 15 (01:34:20):
Well, I mean I guess, I guess for us or
for me, it would be things that happened. Well, there's
two things. One is we had done you know a
number of XTW shows at the Grand Olympic Auditorium and
just seeing in that building and being able to you know,
produce and shoot in that building was such a fantastic place,

(01:34:40):
and so just the halls and the history in that building,
it was really nice to shoot stuff there. And then
anytime i've I've done things in either Tijuana or Mexico City. Uh,
just you know, it's such a contrast from all the
other shows and events that you know, I've either been
to or produce here in the US. That you know,

(01:35:02):
I think a lot of times when you've got unique
situations or you've got situations that you're not seeing every
everywhere else. Uh you know that that's that's for me,
It's been the most exciting kind of stuff.

Speaker 14 (01:35:15):
Okay, I probably need to go. I don't. I didn't really,
I don't really take a lot of pictures. I mean
I've got some around there, you know, from the various
shows I've done. I've been say I'm trying to think
of Let's see, I got some photos from my time
in the indie scene. I probably should put some of
those up, including including the night the afternoon I got

(01:35:35):
to manage the hockey talk man, which was a which
was probably a bigger thrill for me than it was
for him. Let's say, I got got some good photos
of got some good photos of when they Briscoes and
necro Butcher and man Bean Ponda were brawling in front
of me. That was fun. So yeah, yeah, I've got
a very nice photo of me with Alison Danger, which
was actually taken by Jigsaw, who was nice enough to

(01:35:57):
you know, it was nice enough to hold my camera
and do that for me. But you know, it's it's
I don't know, it's not not really a photography guy though,
So most of my pictures turn out, you know, kind
of crappy.

Speaker 17 (01:36:09):
Thanks Pat, Thanks Scott, Thanks.

Speaker 14 (01:36:11):
Kevin, no problem. All right, Well Ryan drops off and
that opens up a line for you at six four
six eight. Thank you. PNW torchlivecast at gmail dot com
is the other way to reach us, and the chat room,
of course is open. We also put up polls every Wednesday.
Today is today's live cast poll is We asked what
match you're most looking forward to this weekend, and we

(01:36:33):
put up several options to choose from, and of course
there's a chance to write in your own. I don't
think we included everything that. Let's see what we have here.
It's as of an hour or so ago, all right,
reading the way, fifty eight percent of you are voting
for this Sunday, Kevin Owens defending the Intercontinental title against

(01:36:54):
Dean Ambrose. Second place is a tie between the NXTAM
match tonight, which is Finvalor Apollow Cruise against Samoa Joe
and Baron Corbin, and the Big Wyatt Family versus Team
ECW Tables match also coming up on Sunday at TLC.
But we want your votes, so go ahead, PW twitch

(01:37:15):
dot com. Cast your ballots now, and we're back here
with Scott Fishman and Kevin Kleinrock guys. I mean, I
know that, I know that Kevin, this probably isn't your
first topic of choice. But as you might have heard,
there is somewhat of a crisis in WWE. The raw
ratings have been on the downswing for I don't know
fourteen or fifteen streat weeks. They have lost a quarter

(01:37:37):
of their viewers from this time last year, and Vince
McMann was apportably very upset by the fact that people
were walking out of the building during the during the
main event segment. Of course, the main event segment was
Roman Reigns cutting a promo and then shame Is coming out,
but still he felt hurt and insulted by this. I
don't know, Kevin, what do you think? I mean, you know,

(01:37:59):
you keep track of what's going on in other wrestling.
What do you think what do you think is hurting
WWE right now?

Speaker 9 (01:38:06):
Oh?

Speaker 15 (01:38:06):
I keep track here as well, you know, I mean
I follow WW closely, you know, I don't. I don't
think what I have to say is anything that other
people aren't sitting here screening. I think that first off,
the format's got to change. It's been the same format,
and you know, I think January first, or you know,

(01:38:26):
the first Monday in January is probably an excellent opportunity
for them to call it a season premiere, shake up
the format, and just break the formula. You know, they
have so much that they can do, that they're capable
of doing, that they're not doing. You know, everyone talks
about it. The great video package you see on NXT.

(01:38:47):
Why aren't those being produced for talent that are on
the main roster. You know, the network has so much
great content and you're trying to sell the network, why
can't you take five minutes a raw and say, this
week we're going to highlight some of the best Rick
Flair matches of all time and do a mini countdown

(01:39:07):
of those matches and don't show the full matches, but
run through the matches, give a clip or two of each,
and direct people to a playlist on the network. Why
can't we have more sit down interviews with you know,
Jim Ross or somebody where we can see some characters
development and we can get a taste of something that's
not this horrific in ring obviously scripted promo. I just

(01:39:31):
think that the first thing is just shaking up how
things are being presented because it is the same formula
week in and week out. It's predictable, you know. Number
two I think is going away from from these these
horrifically scripted promos. I mean, you know, everybody, not everybody,
I guess I should say, but a lot of people,

(01:39:53):
you know, took exception to the page in Charlotte incident,
you know, when he's mentioning a red flair And to me,
while that was done in bad taste, what bugged me
probably even more about the segment was Charlotte saying the
title doesn't matter, you know. Whatever else she said after that,

(01:40:14):
it was something like, you know the type of person
you are or how this or that, and I'm like
your champions in the ring saying the title doesn't matter.
Why should anybody in an audience give a crap then
about your champion and who the champions are and what
This week I caught during the the Broms Stroman Tommy
Dreamer match, you know, Michael Cole throws out the line,

(01:40:38):
you know, Bronze Strowman shows no remorse, and it immediately
jarred me because I'm sitting here going okay, Number one,
that's a trait that any heel should have, Every heel
on your roster should be showing you remorse. But more importantly,
what have you done through a match, through a vignette,
through a promo, through anything to actually show me this?

Speaker 4 (01:41:01):
Do you have?

Speaker 15 (01:41:01):
These announcers bring out all this hollow talk? And I
think that you know, whether it's Vince or the writers,
they sit there and they know the storylines that they're
trying to get over in their heads, but there's no
development that the audience gets to see other than trying
to believe what the announcers are telling you about a
character or this or that. And I just it's such

(01:41:21):
a toxic combination. I think of the format and and
everybody being written the same kind of cheesy dialogue, and
they just kind of need a whole you know there
I say reset button because you know, I'm not saying
to reset all of these storylines and titles and all that,
but they need a fresh approach. I think in that,

(01:41:42):
combined with a hot angle or two, that's going to
get people talking outside of the people that are watching
it today is really what they need.

Speaker 14 (01:41:51):
Scott, do you want to do your rent first where
I can go first and give you time? I mean, yeah,
I mean there's nothing that Kevin's Everything that Kevin said
is true. You know what what bothers me is, you know.
I mean the WWE has said, you know, they're they're
very up. They're obviously disappointed with the ratings they're putting out.
You know, they're sending out these surveys on social media.

(01:42:13):
They're putting them out on various social websites. I don't know,
I haven't seen anybody who you know, I haven't seen
any responses on social media on the web that say,
you know what I want to see. I want to
see a scripted twenty minute promo that goes nowhere. I
haven't seen any of that. I haven't seen, you know.
And but probably the thing that I think people are

(01:42:33):
taking for granted that it's such a turn off as
you know, we I mean, we've had the same heel
authority figure storyline for about eighteen years. But you know,
I mean we, you know, Jim Baali and I have
been getting you know, putting together our way back play
back of the nineteen ninety eight Survivor series. You know,
I don't think I don't think Steve Austin would have
worked out that well if you had Steve Austin, you know,

(01:42:55):
Gopher his big title shot at WrestleMania, and then suddenly
the under Taker cashes in his money in the bank
briefcase and beats and beats down Austin and pins him.
And then Austin keeps trying for several months and the
mc McMahon keeps out winning him. Then he wins the
title for twelve seconds, and then you know, the rock
cash is in another briefcase and pins them. I mean,

(01:43:16):
it's it's been the bad guys in control for the
vast majority of the last couple of years. And you know,
I you know, I know that in wrestling, a lot
of people believe, you know, the money is in the
chase for the title. But you know now that it's
pretty established that the stories are are what you know
or what the wrestling promoters come up with. Yeah, I mean,
WWA always met WWE, WWF always made their money, not

(01:43:39):
off of the chase, but off of you know, our
good guy who's the champion, he defends it, you know,
you know, takes on to bad guys and wins. And
we're not playing any of that.

Speaker 1 (01:43:51):
We are running our second v IP sale of the year.
You want to take advantage of this. If you've thought
of going VIP or let your sub lapse, had to
step away for a while, it's a good time to
come back. Pwtorch dot com slash go vip tells you
about VIP membership. There is a link to our order
form and you can choose a one month or three
month subscription and you can take nine dollars off any

(01:44:12):
of those three options. The coupon code is Nov. Twenty
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(01:44:57):
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Speaker 15 (01:45:18):
I think too though, there's a difference between a chase
where you're building and building and building then you were
accomplishing the goal, and what we've seen here with Roman Reign,
it's not about the Chase, it's Chase fail, Chase fail,
Chase fail, and I think even those you know, look,
you're building Roman Reigns to replace John Cena. And what

(01:45:40):
I mean by that is he's gonna appeal to the
women and the kids. He's not gonna appeal to the
same fan as booing John Cena. And if that's the case,
then you're really having to get him over with the kids.
And how many times is this potential hero is going
to have to fail in front of those kids before
the kids are like, you know what if he's just
not that cool, he's just.

Speaker 6 (01:46:00):
Not that good.

Speaker 15 (01:46:01):
And I think with the last loss to Seamus, I
mean that's what I saw, and then to see him
there in the ring, you know, almost in tears, and
it's just like, you're not but he should have come
in whenever it was and he should be destroying people.
And even you know, as much as I think that, uh,
you know, you can blame the writers and you can

(01:46:21):
blame whoever. There was a very particular moment watching the
end segment of Raw last week, and you know, they're they're, they're,
they're brawn all over the place, and then there's this
moment where they're they're at ringside, and they're going to
think they think they're heading towards kind of the tables
or whatever to set up the spot for the end.

(01:46:42):
And they're both walking. You are setting up a main
event for a pay per view. And Roman reigned, there's
no fire in him. He is not chasing after Shamus.
He is not showing no mercy. Austin would not be
walking around that ring.

Speaker 4 (01:46:57):
You know.

Speaker 15 (01:46:58):
It's kind of hoping he catches up to shame as
whenever he can. And I just think you don't see
the fire that that sells stories and sells promo. I mean,
the only to me when I watch I see that
kind of a fire in is Dean.

Speaker 6 (01:47:13):
Ambrose, and that's it.

Speaker 15 (01:47:15):
I don't see anybody else I don't see and and
I think, you know, it's no, it's no surprise. I
think that, you know, when I see Dean Ambrose, I
see flashbacks to you know, Terry Funk, and I see
flashbacks to other you know, the Piper, and and it's
not surprising. Those guys were the ones that sold you know,
stories and sold matches and sold the tickets. And that's

(01:47:37):
it's just missing. Not that everybody should be the same.
But between the fifty fifty booking, between everything, it's just
everybody's the same. Nobody has any fire and and if
the wrestlers aren't acting as if this fight, this match,
this title is the most important thing, why should we
at home think it is right?

Speaker 14 (01:47:58):
Well, I don't want to get the moments of Scott
from Miami and here hold on a moment, I think
I got it, got there.

Speaker 16 (01:48:08):
Yeah, sorry about that.

Speaker 14 (01:48:10):
No, I just wanted to give you the I mean,
we we we We've got Mona Rampson. I just wanted
to give you the opportunity to say, to talk about
what's missing.

Speaker 3 (01:48:19):
Well, I forgive me if I repeat everything you guys
have just said. But I totally agree about the format.
The format changing one of the main things. I think
it's like subtle changes that can.

Speaker 16 (01:48:28):
Make a world of difference.

Speaker 3 (01:48:29):
I don't think change is gonna happen overnight, but even
eliminating the opening promos every every Monday night, I think
that'll show people that you're trying to make an effort
to change things up.

Speaker 16 (01:48:39):
I think I don't you know, it's where I changing
the look of the show. I don't know if that'll help.

Speaker 3 (01:48:44):
Also, but just doing that, I think, and then you
mentioned about Roman Range, and you hit the nail on
the head. I don't know why they keep, you know,
incessantly trying to make him be someone. He's not trying
to be that Johnson the guy. He's not going to
be the guy in the mic.

Speaker 16 (01:48:57):
That kars at a guy.

Speaker 15 (01:48:59):
Or maybe he will.

Speaker 3 (01:49:00):
But if you give him the opportunity to himself and
not have him try to remember looking for line, everything's
gonna say. The guy's probably under so much pressure, and
you know he's only been around for a couple of
years when you think of his experience level and being
put in these situations and and I think as far
as if you you just you saw that the problems
were in that whole end of segment show. I mean

(01:49:21):
they just went on and on and on, and then
all of a sudden, the fans actually started to connect
with them when they started fighting. And I think that's
just shows you why, I mean, where they can go
with Roman Rings. They basically have did wrong with Roman
Rings ever since the Roy rumble with Daniel Bryant, and
they're putting him in these situations where he's not gonna get,
you know, be this clear, concise hero and I still

(01:49:41):
believe in clear cut having like villains.

Speaker 16 (01:49:44):
And heroes, and I think you need that.

Speaker 3 (01:49:47):
And I and perfect problem going on in the DVa's
division when you have Paige and Charlotte, I mean going
something back and forth and whether they're gonna whether whether.

Speaker 16 (01:49:56):
We should share them or boo them.

Speaker 3 (01:49:57):
I mean the whole team's division.

Speaker 15 (01:49:59):
There's no like.

Speaker 16 (01:49:59):
Clear correct character development.

Speaker 3 (01:50:01):
Yeah, they're getting more time in the ring, but they're
having meaningless matches though nothing really matters in that set.
So I think, I mean little changes they can make,
and it's things that we see. I don't understand why
they don't see it or they fail to want to
do anything about it, but I think they're really gonna
try to maybe try to do something. Maybe the ratings
don't matter as much of them as much as subscription
services as every to be network. So if there's still

(01:50:24):
the number three, you know, or the number one show
on cable TV, it's hard for them to see that
change needs to be done. But if they see numbers
dwindling up.

Speaker 16 (01:50:31):
The network, then maybe they'll try to change things.

Speaker 3 (01:50:35):
But looking forward to TLC, it's like, you know, it's
like what kind of.

Speaker 16 (01:50:39):
Development someone they're a cruse control.

Speaker 3 (01:50:41):
But I will say this though playing you know, Devil's Advocate,
they have been struck with the injury bug a lot,
so they've been kind of forced to try to muddle
or mutter around as far as creative is concerned. But
even having longer matches and having decisive finishes can make
a difference in what I'm seeing, So you don't have
to you know, it's not reinventing the wheel as far
as what you're gonna as far as they can things different,
making things better. I mean, it's obviously you know, if

(01:51:05):
we see O, why don't think see it early?

Speaker 15 (01:51:07):
Well, you know, honestly, I think the answer to that is,
and I could be wrong, but this is my take
on the answer to that question. I think that one
they you know, back in the day, the number was
always thrown around, Oh, the Internet audience is only ten
percent of our audience, and I think that they would
probably have to agree that's a bigger percent these days.
But I still feel like they think that the voices

(01:51:30):
that are out there, you know, the Pat McNeil, the
Scott Fishman, whoever else, that that is not representative of
their true core audience member. But the only way that
they're pulling or they're trying to figure out what their
true core audience member wants is in these surveys. It
don't make sense. You know, they're asking these questions like

(01:51:51):
what do you prefer interview segments or matches? Well, you know,
and I'm not the first person to say that that's
the survey. Is it a really good interview or is
it a really crappy match? Like there, they don't have
their pulse on their audience, and they're ways of trying
to figure out who their audience is and what that
pulse is. I don't think are the ways they're really

(01:52:13):
going to figure out how to fix this problem.

Speaker 4 (01:52:16):
Yeah, and it's such a thing.

Speaker 3 (01:52:17):
They survey. They get a certainvey every show with the
fans when they response and a lack of response like
perfection point is Monday Night Ira, which you can hear
a pin drop most of the segments, so that can
give them an idea of what's working and what's not working.

Speaker 16 (01:52:30):
You have a guy like Dan Ambros who.

Speaker 3 (01:52:32):
You consistently, you know, bring down and have him get
beat down at all, and fans still respond to him.
Shouldn't that set off a you know, maybe I should
push this guy or you know, it's the start and stop.
Like you mentioned, the consistency of everything. But when they
see people leaving the venue, that should kind of be like, Okay,
maybe we're not doing any thing we can to get
people to stay because they're cadd to be here.

Speaker 16 (01:52:52):
And they don't want to be here.

Speaker 3 (01:52:53):
They want to leave and make sure that they don't
get stuck in traffic. They'd rather you know, be in
their car on their way home than watch what we're
gonna see it at the end of the show. So
you know, there's a lot of issues there. But yeah,
these surveys are great, but the main survey is the
live audience, which they get every week, so that I
don't know why.

Speaker 15 (01:53:11):
Yeah, I think that they all I mean, and again,
speaking from the outside, it seems to me like there's
always a there's always a way for them to go.
But it was this, for example, that live audience was leaving.
Oh but we were in this town, or but the
TV audience, you know, that's different than the people that were.

Speaker 8 (01:53:31):
Here live or this or that or whatever.

Speaker 15 (01:53:33):
And it's always like there's that butt and it seems
like they're just not like you said, it doesn't have
to be a complete overhaul of everything on the TV show,
but change up a little bit, test other segments. It's
not test segments like this new Adam Rose thing and
how the hell that's making TV? And even when it

(01:53:56):
made it the first week, how the hell it made
it the second week?

Speaker 4 (01:53:59):
I have no.

Speaker 15 (01:53:59):
Why who is making the decisions that that is what
anybody in the audience, live or at home wants to see.

Speaker 3 (01:54:08):
Yes, and perfect example is with New Day when you
let the guys be themselves an experiment. Like you said,
the New Day has been given the ball and the
fans have been responding to them, and they've been successful
because they're showing their characters because they're very much like
that off camera and they're able to put that on camera.
So it's just something that clicks with the you know
what's going on television. So that's just the perfect example
of So you're letting guys, you're giving the ball and

(01:54:31):
giving them creative freedom in this sense, but then you're
you know, you're giving a guy like Real Murray, you're
not trusting him enough to be on your show. If
you didn't trust him enough to why from the show
in the first place, basically, but if you if you
believe in him, you know that he has potential.

Speaker 16 (01:54:44):
Then let him be himself and let him do what
he does best.

Speaker 3 (01:54:46):
I mean, you even look like a kind of like
Bill go Over. He was over, but not because of
his long insuring promos, because he destroyed guys and Roman
rains are when he was doing that, and now he's not.

Speaker 16 (01:54:58):
They kind of cut him.

Speaker 3 (01:54:58):
Off at the legs and kind of of them. And
what's trying to Paul Himan back in the day is
because he accentuated that the positives and kind of like
hit the negatives, and these guys are doing the complete
opposite of what's been going on the last couple of weeks,
last couple of months.

Speaker 14 (01:55:13):
Right, Okay, I do want to get I do want
to get a few audience questions in let's uh, let's
we have let's see what we have here. The adventure
continues as we go to the chat room. Uh chat room.
Question for Kevin, do you think the alien invasion storyline
Luca Underground has remembered to be doing is a good idea.

Speaker 15 (01:55:32):
One I think? Okay, So, first off, I don't think
that there's really an alien invasion storyline. Now, maybe I
could be wrong, but I believe that I believe the
show might have some more additional sci fi elements. I mean,
I encourage anybody to go and listen to any of
the podcasts or radio interviews that guys like Christy Joseph

(01:55:56):
have done. You know they Underground World is such a
unique world, and which I think is what makes that
show so awesome is that it's not like anything else
on television, and it is. There's a whole other level
of the willing suspension of disbelief when watching that, you know,
when they're telling me that drag those are real dragon
and when they're having people, you know, disappear in fireballs

(01:56:19):
or monsters like that's what makes that show what it
is and it should stay that way. I think that
the quote that got a little bit more twisted in
turn was was trying to reference the fact that I
think that there will will be more sci fi type elements,
but I don't. I don't think I could be totally
wrong because I have no insider knowledge over there, but

(01:56:41):
I don't think it's a it's really an alien division
and certain things that that Chris and Joseph ended up
tweeting after that kind of rumor got out. I think
we're just kind of playing, playing with the fans who
were believing into that, tweeting little pictures of aliens and
different things. I don't really think that there will be,
but I do believe that they should completely we stay
in their direction of this is a drama, this is

(01:57:03):
a fantasy that happens to center around a wrestling promotion,
and we have these full, awesome wrestling matches. But we
are not a wrestling We are not ww we are
not TEENA. We are not a wrestling show with you know,
instant replays and flashbacks and things like that.

Speaker 14 (01:57:20):
Yeah, I mean, you know, there's there's a place for that.
I mean obviously obviously you have Game of Thrones and
there's dragons there and magic and that sort of thing
and any anything to add their Scott.

Speaker 3 (01:57:33):
Yeah, I totally agree. That's what fans have, you know,
expected from Lucia. As long as they stay, you know,
they still have the great matches and still have that.
I'm okay with the over the top storytelling because that's
the venue and that's the place that it fits well with.
So I think it'll you know, It'll be interesting to
see what kind of stories they tell.

Speaker 16 (01:57:49):
This time around.

Speaker 3 (01:57:49):
But it's I think the production is amazing and just
the cinematic feel to it.

Speaker 16 (01:57:54):
I think I'm looking forward to seeing.

Speaker 3 (01:57:56):
What they do next now that they have kind of
like a built an audience and now they're trying to
grow as time goes on.

Speaker 16 (01:58:01):
So I'm excited for the what they're doing.

Speaker 3 (01:58:03):
But as long as they keep Bigfoot out of it,
I think we're good.

Speaker 14 (01:58:07):
Well they yeah, and I think you know, you have
all these wrestling fans are saying we want something different,
we want something different. If you if you watch season
one of Lucha Underground, it was different and not in
a bad way. I mean there, you know, I mean
there's probably some there might be some things you don't like,
but you know it's it's it is an entertaining show.
I mean, you know it's not it's not New Japan.

(01:58:28):
Let's see what other what other questions do we have
in the the chat room here? Okay, this is one
for Scott Fishman from our man Chicky singer Chicky wants
to know other than your other than your soul? Who
do you feel is the greatest pro wrestling reporter.

Speaker 3 (01:58:44):
I don't know, it's a subjective, but h I appreciate
Bill After. I always am grateful for Bill After and
and uh because he gave me an opportunity to actually
get published in my you know, first magazine and ends
up being like the cover story. I think it was
like Total Arrest, a magazine before it closed down. It
was actually the last issue with Eddie Guerrero on the cover.
So I was really grateful that he's always been really

(01:59:06):
cool to me, And just because of that, I think
I'll always I'll say Bill After and I read his
book recently and it's great.

Speaker 16 (01:59:13):
So and he's always, you know, he always.

Speaker 3 (01:59:15):
Finds the positive it, you know what. We're always like,
you know this, this sucks and this is bad. But
he always you know, he maintains his you know, he
always finds the vivin things. And I think I respect
that about him. And he's always you know, he doesn't
want to bridges at the same time, but you know,
there's a way of doing things, in a way of
reporting things, and I think, you know, he does a
good job of being balanced but also not trying to

(01:59:37):
blatantly bash or trash something because you know, all the
bad stuff like that, so I'll have to go with him.

Speaker 14 (01:59:43):
I guess okay, We're gonna go back to the phones
here in a second. Want to remind everybody that coming
up at the bottom of the l on most of
these blog talk radio stations, the East Coast Cast, Travis
Bryant Barbary Purnell will be uh, we'll be presenting the show.
Go to East Coastcast dot com and listen live. And
I'm like, this pro prinical discretion is advised. Let's see,

(02:00:03):
let's I can ask the same question of Kevin. Kevin,
other than me, who do you think the greatest pro
wrestling a portrait?

Speaker 15 (02:00:10):
You know, honestly, for me, it's about what I'm looking for.

Speaker 14 (02:00:14):
Uh.

Speaker 15 (02:00:14):
You know, I I one, I too loved Bill after
you know, I when I finally got to meet Bill, uh,
after growing up reading his magazines and you know, sending
in letters of magazines. Uh, it was really a great experience.
I have not read the book yet, but I definitely
plan on reading it. And I never really thought about it,
but I love what Scott just said about Bill's positivity.

(02:00:37):
You know, I think that that's obviously there. There's always
got to be somebody who can can let you know,
try to try to show the positive when everyone else
is kind of breaking down the negative. But you know, yeah,
for me, it's just really been different. You know. I
I grew up and really as I was developing my
career in this business, I read Fortune and I read Observer,
and so you know, when it came to for super

(02:01:00):
detailed business analysis, you know, I enjoyed reading Meltzer when
it came to give it to me in a more
simple way and but update me on everything and give
me the news. You know, I like reading you know,
Wade stuff, And so I think it really depends on
what specifically, you know, I was I was looking for,

(02:01:21):
you know, in a particular moment.

Speaker 14 (02:01:24):
Yeah, I think that I think that does have a
lot to do with it. And uh, you know, I
mean there's you know, it's it's kind of hard to do.
Just it's kind of hard to do a newsletter or
or a magazine like The Laughter did because everything, you know,
it's it's the Internet. Everything is very up to the minute.

Speaker 1 (02:01:39):
Now give yourself a reason to look forward to going
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(02:02:02):
length columns from Greg Parks, Rich Fan, Sean Radikin, Alan
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(02:02:24):
twenty two. You can get a full year of home
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Speaker 15 (02:02:37):
I do want to mention that we just launched the
first monthly English language loota libre magazine called Rudo Camp Sale,
and we were working with a number of great writers
and we're covering everything from TRIPAA and CML and Lucha
Underground to independents that are doing to lid break throughout
the world. We've got contributors. The first issue that is

(02:03:01):
almost sold out. But back in nineteen ninety four in
the Pro Wrestling Torch Yearbook, Wade did this incredible fifteen
page interview with Conan, and so Wade gave us permission
to reprint some of the article, some of the original
interview in our first issue, and then we did an
interview now with Conan talking about looking back at that.

(02:03:24):
You know certain things he said, then, you know how
he feels things has changed, how things has stayed the same.
And so I encourage anyone who wants to check that
out to go to lucashop dot com and pick up
Rudo Can't Fail or go to Rudaucantfail dot com and
you can actually hear the whole hour plus interview that
we did with Colan about that in nineteen ninety four

(02:03:45):
Torch Doc.

Speaker 14 (02:03:46):
Okay, that's definitely yeah, If yeah, definitely, If you haven't
read the original one, go definitely check out Rudo's Can't
Fail and it will be interesting to hear some of
what Conan has to say today. Let's see next question
from the chat room. Oh boy, this is going to
be good. Whose idea? Okay, here we go, Whose idea

(02:04:06):
was it for? Right back? To become a high flying
wrestler with dropkicks off the second rope and and to
pays and that sort of thing I'm gonna go with.
It wasn't my idea, but yeah, that that's a That's
another problem I think with with modern wrestling, as guys
feeling the need to, you know, feeling the need to
be in that cookie cutter mold where you can do
these offensive moves right back, right back. Shouldn't have to

(02:04:29):
right back, shouldn't have to be doing topeys. I mean,
if he wants to, if he wants to do one
for you know, if he wants to do one on
a pay per view just for shock value, that's fine,
but it should you know, this really shouldn't be part
of what this guy does on a regular basis.

Speaker 16 (02:04:41):
I think Scott totally agree with you.

Speaker 19 (02:04:44):
I mean, you're I mean, I get, I get you
want to try different moves and be different, but look
what happened when brock Lesner tried to do that at WrestleMania.
Things didn't go very well. So I think maybe sticking
to restraints would be good, and especially if you know
it's going to be dangerous, so that looks really scary
on Monday with what's going on. I mean, accidents happened,
but you know, yeah, I don't even know why he
would want to do that. And then that size, I
mean people that usually do those high flying moves because

(02:05:06):
you know, you're the smaller guy, so you're you know,
you have these athletic, you know, dise these abilities. I
guess you want to show off a little bit. I
don't know what the what happened that night, but I
don't know if he's going to do it again now
after that?

Speaker 14 (02:05:18):
Yeah, and you know, I mean, I I mean big
show was you know, Paul White was able to do
moon salts in nineteen ninety five when he first debuted
in WCW. They made the crazy decision not to have
him do them and to be a giant instead. I
I mean, I I think that, you know, I think
that having different styles and having you know, everybody not
be the same type of wrestler is it used to

(02:05:39):
be part of what made wrestling interesting and exciting. You know,
I'm done right.

Speaker 3 (02:05:43):
I mean, although it was because he could do those moves,
I guess Vader is the acception of the rule when
you look at I mean, but he's not doing like
summersaults and things like that. He did do sol and
things like that, but not anything like a pay off
the ropes or something like.

Speaker 14 (02:05:56):
Yeah. Also, Vader didn't win matches with that move. I
mean that was that was something. Yeah, yeah, it wasn't.
It wasn't really, I mean, it wasn't like it was
his finisher. I don't know. Yeah, I think that, you know,
I think I think different styles may make for better
wrestling sometimes. All right, let's let's see what else we

(02:06:17):
have here. Okay, six four, six seven eight is the
you know, is the other way to reach us? Let's see, Scott,
you talked briefly about uh, you talk briefly about you know,
some of the indie stuff that's going on there. Is
there any word of is TA going to be? Is
there any word is whether TNA is gonna end up
coming back to Orlando at some point or is that?

Speaker 19 (02:06:39):
I mean I haven't heard as so far as classes
what's going on with the pop you know, TV tapings,
But if they do come back, I hope it's you know,
I mean, I don't know how much you know, I
know it's expensive to tour, but I I mean it
would be good if they just if they kept going on,
you know, as far as doing different areas, because I
think that was one of the things that they became
complacent as far as the crowds reactions, and you know,

(02:07:00):
they were kind of like almost spoiled it almost like
almost like what the NXT crowd is going. I mean,
a lot of people aren't appreciating the nxt crowd because
they're quote trying to put themselves over before the show,
but you know, they're actually you know, they're excited about
the product and things like that, which is totally different
than you know, Teena during the and there was a
point where the fans were really invested in the TEENA
product in Orlando, but things started to go down, you

(02:07:21):
know hill, I guess at times, and then it became
like a touristy thing. So I mean, as much as
for myself, I would like it because it's only a
four hour drive for me. It's a Universal Studios, so
that's that's a fun venue to be at. I'm sure
they will be doing more tapings there, but I hope
it's not like predominantly there basically.

Speaker 16 (02:07:40):
But I haven't heard.

Speaker 19 (02:07:40):
Anything as far as anything past January.

Speaker 14 (02:07:45):
Okay, yeah, they got the tapings in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania. Kevin,
have you heard anything exciting about other than the alien invasion?
About what we're what we're going to see from Luke
Underground in January.

Speaker 15 (02:08:00):
Let's see, there is definitely new talent debuting. There is
some really good talent, talent that a lot of fans
who are aware of, uh, you know, Triple A and
and the potential of who might get called up, you know,
the people that that they've been saying they want to see.

(02:08:22):
And then also I think there's at least one indie
name that might not really be on the people's radar,
but I've certainly been singing his praises for a number
of years now, and looks like he's going to end
up there in a pretty pretty big role. I'm sorry
that I'm not giving more away right now, but uh,

(02:08:43):
I have been called by their lawyers before for a
tweet on a dark match, so we're going to uh
keep it at that, but definitely, uh, you know, keeping
keeping in line with you know, the great talent they
had last season. I think that there's just some really
good names coming in for for the new season, and
I expect the entering product to be just as good.

(02:09:04):
It's not better than the first season.

Speaker 14 (02:09:06):
All right, we're going we're going to try this again.
I don't know why. We're gonna go to the three
four seven area code. Three four seven, Please take your
name n Live cast Scott.

Speaker 10 (02:09:14):
And Kevin Jonathan for New York the jump start with that.
Jonathan Jonathan from New York. Yeah, okay, I'm sorry about before.
Is that I got terrible signal in my workplace?

Speaker 14 (02:09:29):
Okay, no problem. What are you quote? What's your question?

Speaker 10 (02:09:31):
Well, uh, well I got I got a question about
the current product, and uh, you know the storyline between
Roman and Shamans. So so let's say for some reason,
Shamus keeps the bell in tail. See, that's most likely
what's gonna happen. How so, it's going to be another
rematch of.

Speaker 12 (02:09:51):
The Round Book.

Speaker 10 (02:09:53):
But how do you think that that w W can
pull out a miracle between Royal Rombo and building a
WrestleMania pay per view around the belt Because I don't
see it. I don't see like I don't I got
to be honest, I don't see like a good paper
view going into WrestleMania with everybody hurt.

Speaker 14 (02:10:17):
Yeah, well, we'll see. That's the thing. They are going
to have brock Lesner back. I expect that Undertaker will
be back for the push to WrestleMania. John Cena should
be back for January. So I mean, I don't know that,
you know. I mean, I think they will put together
at least one marquee match that people want to see,
But I don't know that it's going to be the
title match, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah, because

(02:10:42):
I mean, I mean, all the people who are you know,
the rumors that they want to do John Cena versus
Undertaker this year. If they do that match, that's it's
going to overshadow whatever is going on with the belt.

Speaker 10 (02:10:54):
Yeah, because I've been having the book in that j R.
Wants to do. He wants to put the belt in
see and then see now compete against Undertake it. That
would be like a decent you know. But at the
end of the day, it's not gonna make sense because
if you bake Baking the Beat again, what are you
going to do another tournament? And we already saw the
match that they did yeah before.

Speaker 14 (02:11:15):
You know, Yeah, if they do that match, I don't
think it's going to be for the title. Let's see, well,
well I'm going to get another opinion. Okay, thank you.
Let me get some other opinions here. I mean, we're
coming up on the end of the hour and if
you're U and those of you listen live, be sure
to check out Jim Ross tomorrow. The rest of you.
All of this will be available for download after we're

(02:11:37):
done here. Scott, what do you think? What do you
think about for WrestleMania. I think I think he's got
a point that you know, a WrestleMania built around Seamus
and or Roman reigns wrestling for the title might not
be great, but there's you know, but I think there's
other there's other ways interesting.

Speaker 19 (02:11:52):
Yeah, I mean I think at this point, I think
they're gonna try to draw on a nostalgia level. I
don't know who they're going to ring in or you know,
you hear stories about rock knockings, mail around the Rousing
not being available, Seth Rall's being injured, but I don't know.
I don't see Seamus being a long term champion, and
I feel like between now and even at the row Rumbles,
something that will take place where I mean, they're gonna

(02:12:13):
build I don't know if it's Roman Range it's gonna
win the title or not, but definitely brock Lesner will
be put in the mix. As far as the championship match,
I believe moving forward, if they're gonna go the way
they are with Undertaker and uh John Cena, and then
I don't know where they're gonna put with Triple H
now because it was supposed to be you hear stories,
but if with Triple H, if he's going to be

(02:12:34):
facing who's going to face the Rock? And now that's
out the door? Is he gonna be facing Seth Wrongs?
Now that's at the door. I mean he's can face
Roman Reigns. I guess moving forward, they kind of hinted
at that a little bit leading into the push for
the Survivors Series and then as Rival Series, so that
I could see that being a good man a big
match for doing those two. I don't see Seamus holding
the title going into WrestleMania.

Speaker 15 (02:12:54):
That's one thing.

Speaker 19 (02:12:55):
I mean moving forward, I don't know who's gonna win it,
but the focus will definitely be on brock Less and
I guess they're gonna you know, of course, with Undertaker,
I don't know who they're going to put them with
I guess seen it would be the one choice a
match we haven't seen very much in a long time,
So they could build that to established names that fans
that don't watch the product all the time. Can you know,

(02:13:17):
it'll resonate with them, So that'll be a match that
would draw. So I don't know, but it's one hundred
thousands or one hundred thousand people, it's just, you know,
it's the worst time for them. They get caught with
the injury.

Speaker 4 (02:13:26):
Bug a though.

Speaker 14 (02:13:27):
Yeah, I guess I guess it is Kevin.

Speaker 15 (02:13:30):
Yeah, And I think I agree with everything that Scott said.
I mean, the one thing I keep caring over and
over is Vince wants Roman to have his WrestleMania moments.
He wants Roman to win at WrestleMania. And I just
don't see how there's a money drawing match it's going
to make that happen.

Speaker 9 (02:13:47):
You know, Are you going to.

Speaker 15 (02:13:49):
Put the belt on Brock at the Rumble and then
have him drop it to Roman a few months later?
I just don't That's not a good use of Brock.

Speaker 4 (02:13:55):
I don't.

Speaker 15 (02:13:55):
I don't think and Seamous and and and you know,
veins on top or even if the title match is
not very exciting. Though, my feeling is that the company
completely overestimates the public's you know, opinion of Shamous anyway.
And I understand the thought was put it on Shamous
and makes people hate him more than they hate Roman Reigns,

(02:14:17):
and I get that, but I, yeah.

Speaker 4 (02:14:19):
I don't.

Speaker 15 (02:14:20):
I don't know what the hell they're going to do.
I think it's gonna have to be this ensemble, you know,
ensemble card where it's not just about one match. It's
going to have to be bringing in a few, you know,
the big names and putting together a number of things
on top. I guess at this point, with the roster
being as low as the displaces, will wrestle, be it
against Rains or be it against somebody else. But I'm

(02:14:43):
thoroughly both from you know, as as someone who looks
at the business of pro wrestling and as a fan
of pro wrestling, I would not want to be sitting
where they are right now. And I am very intrigued
to see what what they actually do over the next
few months.

Speaker 14 (02:14:57):
Yeah, it is going to be interesting. We'll sort of
wrap up there, guys. I do want you to get
in let everybody know how they can keep track of
what you're doing via social media. Why don't we start
with you, Kevin?

Speaker 15 (02:15:08):
All right, so the best place for all the news
is at Masked Republic m A s K D Republic
on Twitter or on Instagram, or mass Republic on Facebook.
And then you know the two things I talked about
a little bit earlier, Lujalute, which you can go to
lujalute dot com or at Lucalute. And then also the

(02:15:29):
new magazine Rudo Can't Fail Rude O r e oh
Can't Fail at that website or on Twitter as well,
and check out all things Luca legal and in English
from mass Republic.

Speaker 14 (02:15:44):
Okay, Scott talking people keep track of you and everything
that had all of your writing and stories and interviews.

Speaker 19 (02:15:54):
Well basically on Twitter it's at s. M. Fishman, and
then also on Facebook you can look my name Scott Fishman,
and I have like a page as well where I'm
posting my links to the articles. Also Miami Herald dot com,
Backslash Sports, Backslash Fighting, and channel guide blog dot com.

Speaker 14 (02:16:13):
Okay, that's a lot, guys. I really appreciate you coming
by this week and getting us prep for the big
TLC weekend and all of the wrestling going on. Thank
you both and continued success to you as well, and
you next week on Yes next week on this program.
We're not sure exactly how we're going to do this,
but it looks as if NXT London is going to

(02:16:34):
be wrapping up at about the time this show starts,
so we'll probably be doing an NXT London postgame show
here that should be very interesting, and we thank all
of you for being part of the program. We hope
that you'll rejoin us next week, same PAT time, same
PAT channel, and we'll do it all again. Good nights.

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