INTERVIEW CLASSIC: Canadian wrestling historian Greg Oliver: Bret Hart's pettiness, historical art of being a heel, Benoit impact, more

Episode Transcript
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fifty to get fifty percent off.Now pw Torchen Spreaker bring you the Wade
Killer Pro Wrestling Podcast. It's timefor this week's Interview Classic, where Wade

(02:35):
Killer interviews one of pro wrestling's newsmakers. Ten years ago today, Canadian wrestling
historian and pro wrestling historian in generalGreg Oliver joined me to talk about Bredhart's
pettiness over the years, the historicalart of being heal. He wrote a
book on it, Recollections of interviewingmany wrestling greats, The Chris Benwa tragedy,

(02:58):
impact on the business, Canadian andwrestling over the years, The evolution
of wrestling media coverage. Greg Oliverand I were Penn pals when we were
teenagers and we both did pro wrestlingnewsletters. He went on to be a
book author and historian, while Iwent the direction of the Torch and newsletters
and websites and podcasting, and sowe reminisced about that in the similar starting
point and the different paths within thesame industry that we took. So it

(03:20):
was fun circling back with my longtimegood friend Greg Oliver ten years ago today
on the Wade Keller Pro Wrestling PodcastInterview Classic for Wednesday, August thirtieth,
twenty twenty three. So here wego. Let's get to my conversation,
my interview with Greg Oliver. Welcometo the t wtrch Livecast. I am

(03:40):
Wade Keller, editor and publisher ofthe Pro Wrestling Torch newsletter since nineteen eighty
seven and also pwtorch dot com sincenineteen ninety nine and now the pwtrche apps
available in every smart device store includingSampom, Smart TV's and Blue Ray players,
iPhones and rate phones, Windows phones, and Amazon Kindle fires and host
of the PW Torch Live Cast.The show was on five days a week

(04:03):
and on pay per view weeks sixdays a week and I host on Tuesdays
and Friday's most weeks. And itis Friday, August thirtieth, twenty thirteen,
and when it's Friday, that meansit's interview Friday. And today I
am pleased to be joined by GregOliver, Canadian wrestling historian, X wrestling

(04:23):
newsletter, editor of the Canadian WrestlingReport, and wrestling reporter at Slam Sports
and many where. Many hats Greg, you got a hockey book coming out
on Goom's Welcome to the show.Hey, thanks for having me on the
show. Wait, it's great tohave you on. Greg, and I
go way back. Greg, youedited and published newsletter as starting what probably

(04:44):
nineteen eighty eight or eighty nine.Do I have that? No? No,
no, I was before you wereeight, and I don't want to
talk about that. Okay, no, go ahead, I'm sorry. No,
no, It's just one of thosethings. You know, it just
start how you started. Probably youknow, you start goofing around with a
publishing program, and you know,you find there's a market for this stuff,
and boom, like I didn't knowthere are other newsletters out there,

(05:04):
so let alone other guys that wereroughly my age as you and I are
so. Yeah. Well, wefirst met at the Chicago Wrestlings Fans convention
that John Gallagher, speaking of newslettersof the Wrestling Form newsletter put together.
I was a few days away fromgoing off to college, and as I
gave you a hard time about atthe time, you know, you were
on your way that grade thirteen ofhigh school in Canada. But you told

(05:27):
me they since dropped that. Yeah, yeah, no, it's just one
of those quirks of the way theCanadian system in Ontario. In Ontario worked
at the time. Yeah, Ihad grade thirteen to look forward to,
and that's all right, I did, okay. Anyways, yeah you did.
So anyway, we had a lotof fun at that convention and kept
in touch as paypals. And thissounds so dated to you know, people

(05:47):
of the Facebook generation, but youknow, you actually hand wrote and typed
up letters and then I would youknow, reply to them by putting it
in an envelope and licking a stampand sending it. It was very It
just seems I can't believe we werealive that long ago. Well, and
you know the other thing, andyou mentioned the the website there, I
mean, and I think when wefirst started the Canoe website, we were

(06:09):
we were really early in the wholesystem, and I remember actually trying to
go get some content from you orsomething and it just never came about.
So, you know, I itseems like I feel like I did do
some content. Yeah, yeah,yeah, exactly. It's just something that
nobody really knew what they wanted todo on the Internet. And so we
actually had an established company in newspaperchain behind us, so we had a

(06:31):
big, you know, foot inthe door kind of thing compared to a
lot of people just starting up andtrying to get their own traffic. So
yeah, yeah, you know,I'd forgotten about that, and now I
do remember that. Yeah, itwas such a we sound so old and
I don't feel old, but talkingthat, I think part of it is
the technology just has changed so rapidlyin the last twenty five years. You
know, it'd be twenty six yearsfor me publishing the Torch coming up in

(06:56):
October, the beginning of October.But it's just I don't think there's been
a twenty five of your period froma technological standpoint that that certainly a media
technology standpoint that matches what we've gonethrough from from our high school years now
into you know middle age. Welljust I mean just going to journalism school,
we had like two computers I thinkin the one room and then the
rest are typewriters when I started,and by the time I finished, they'd

(07:17):
built a brand new building where everythingwas. We were doing pagination and all
that. So, yeah, technologychanged as well as the university. I
know, in high school there wasit wasn't I'm trying to think of the
name was a PageMaker, trying tothink of the original desktop pulishing program.
But I was so impressed when agirl in my class showed me, you
know, that she was designing theearbook and had this you know, desktop

(07:38):
publishing program, and that that was, you know, just awesome because I
was doing the torch at that pointon a typewriter. My Gramma's old typewriter
was sticky keys. And then incollege, yeah, I remember getting a
tour of the of the computer sciencelab and they were explaining this new thing
called electronic mail. They hadn't goneto email yet, just electronic mail and
explaining it, and I mean,I just, yeah, now we sound

(08:00):
like you know, when we're kids. People go, oh, my day,
we didn't have TVs and we barelyhad radios. Yeah yeah, yeah,
Well, first, a little backgroundof you because one of the reasons
I wanted to have you on theshow is you're part of the new ask
PW Torch All Star Panel that westarted this week. It is a app
exclusive. Our SPW Torch feature withthe Torch VIP and New Putters staff has
been so popular that we have donea spinoff that is really different and Greg,

(08:26):
as a author, a longtime wrestlingfan, longtime wrestling reporter and journalist
and historian, especially with a focuson Canada, I thought it was really
cool to bring that perspective. TwoTorch readers also on the All Star panel.
John Piermarini, a frequent guest ofthis show, an x WWE creative
team member in two thousand and nineand twenty ten. George Shire, wrestling

(08:50):
historian and book author of Minnesota wrestlingHistory. He's been on the Live past
a few times, including recently withBruce Mitchell and just a Clinic. I
just sat back and listened to thosetwo talk about the evolution of world championships
over the decades. He was alsomy co host on Pro Wrestling Focus which
was just went off the year twentyyears ago this week, and so he
is part of that. Also.Mick Harsh, longtime wrestling announcer. He's

(09:13):
been with every wrestling promotion, everynational promotion in the modern era other than
wwfw W and TNA, I meanevery group that's gone national, and he's
been part of and he still doesIndy Wrestling. And he was an original
Torch columnist going back into the earlyissues of The Torch, a longtime friend
and he, speaking of newsletters,predated what Greg and I did, and

(09:33):
did the Nick Bockwinkle fan club bulletin, and just going back and wrestling journalism
evolution, it really got its startwith fans in different territories creating fan club
bulletins that were really yes they wereabout a particular wrestler, but they would
include in it all the news fromthe territory, results, big angles,

(09:54):
you know, stars who were movingaround, and there was this whole network
of wrestling fans Greg who subscribed orexchanged fan club bulletins. I don't I
think that probably was a little beforeour time. Were you ever a subscriber
to a fan club bulletin? Thereare a couple I do have a couple
upstairs, but yeah, it do. They are neat treasure drills when you

(10:16):
do find some of the old ones. Yeah, and there they're interesting collections
and their times and places, andthe people were generally really in the know,
like they had to get the approvalof whoever was a fan club,
whether it was a Whipper Watson orRay Stevens or whoever it was Lassie Nick
Blackwinkle exactly, and so they gotaccess to these guys that most other people

(10:37):
didn't. So they're they're unique slicesof the history that I'm glad are out
there. Also part of the AllStar panel. Johnny Fairplay, he is
our our wild card. He isformerly a survivor the CBS reality show and
many other reality shows. Also hada stint as a on air talent for
TNA and we use talents and quotemarks just to give him a hard time,
and also has been a frequent guestof Pat McNeil on the PW Torch

(11:01):
Lidcaster. We referred to him asthe region what Regis Philbin is to David
Letterman, Johnny Fairplay is to PatMcNeil. I have no Greg and forgive
me because Minnesota people consider US Canadain the United States, like we have
accents, they think minnesotaccents are similarto Canadian accents. So in the United
States people just think we're basically Canada. Yet in Minnesota we don't really know

(11:24):
pop culture references, how many ofthem cross over and makes sense. So
don't be insulted by this. Butdo you know who Regis philbin Is?
Oh? Yeah, absolutely, weget everything you guys do. Why but
why would you pay attention to Regisphilbin If you could avoid Regis because you're
in Canada, that would be awonderful thing. Yeah, but he was.
He was a big wrestling fan.He used to have wrestlers on too.

(11:46):
No whatever, I mean, it'snot like I watched any of this,
but certainly we know who he is, all right. And so Brian
Fritz of Between the Ropes, heis with Yahoo's Sports podcasting and has long
done them Between the Ropes Wrestling popest. I've one on his show, He's
been on my show. They arethe all Stars. And then we have
our PW Torch website contributors also inthe mix, Micro Michael Pupac, Sean

(12:07):
Valentino, Michael Moore, John Mazzera, Brian Leey, Jimmy Eaton, and
Benjamin Tucker all will be sprinkling intheir analysis and answers to questions. So
that is the ask you to retorchAll Star panel that is only available on
the PW Torch app So it's freepe just enter PW Torch on your smartphone
and download it. And we debutedit yesterday morning and we had the second

(12:28):
edition today. I think you've beenin both, Greg, and I've got
Tomorrow's mostly ready for tomorrow morning,and I think you're in it also,
So I really appreciate you contributing toit, and I hope that we get
on today's show and in the futureand ask PW Torch questions related to Canada
and Canadian wrestling history, because that'sone of the areas of focus I want
to talk about with you today.Isn't it kind of ironic that I don't
even own a cell phone? Yeah? That is so that just died.

(12:52):
I don't need it in my life. Well, you know, I get
up in the morning, I walkmy son to school, I come home,
So where do I need cell phonethere? You know, honestly,
there are a lot of people withtechnology surrounding them like me and who who
are wish they could do? Who'sadd and go back to that, go
back to that time when you're morepresent and not hearing beets and whistles and

(13:13):
alerts all the time. Yeah,well you guys choose to go that way.
Yeah, exactly. Thank you forsubscribing to the Waight Keller Pro Wrestling
Podcast and Waight Keller Pro Wrestling postshows. Don't forget we got a whole
lineup of other shows called the PwtorchDaily Casts. It's free. Just search
PW torch in your podcast stapp adifferent show on a different topic throughout the
week, including shows dedicated to ae W n x T MMA Ring of

(13:37):
Honor and more. Just search PWTorch in your podcast stapp or check out
links to the latest shows at ourmain website, pwtorch dot com. So
I was gonna say one more thing, Oh, but you can gain access
to it greg on the VP website. So if anybody is a v member,

(14:00):
they gain access to both versions ofSPTU Torch on the website and on
our app. They're available only toVAP members on both platforms. So we'll
get your set up with that andshow you that if you're not already,
so you can read what the othersare saying. Cool. So let's open
up the phone lines and email ifyou've got a question about wrestling history in
general, because Greg has an impressivelist of books he has written. They're

(14:22):
not all Canadian focused, but certainlythat is an area of specialty, including
the progressing Hall of Fame the Canadians, which you wrote. If you have
a question about Canadian wrestling or Canadianwrestlers, give us a call six four
six seven two one nine eight twoeight. That's six four six seven two
one nine eight two eight, andalso email us a question at PW Torch

(14:43):
Live Cast at gmail dot com.That is PW Torch Live Cast at gmail
dot com. I want to bringin our co hosts for today's show,
Bruce Mitchell Torch senior columnist, Bruce. Welcome to the Welcome to the show.
Welcome I Spring Garden Street on abeautiful day on the campus of UNC
Greensboro. I should I'll be walkingfor a little bit and I'll be hanging

(15:07):
and not too long, so I'mon the show. We can do it
cool. We get hit by acar and that's what happens. Well,
please uh please pay attention to whereyou're walking and not not not your cell
phone. I've only once almost sprainedmy ankle reading my cell phone while walking
around a lake on a beautiful day, and I have decided that that was
a dumb thing to do. Youshouldn't put your cell phone away and enjoy

(15:28):
the weather. But you're on theshow, so you can't put your cell
phone. A Waivers exactly, exactlycool. I'm really excited to be on
this show because I think three ofthe best wrestling books I've ever had,
and like every summer I go backand reread them. And that's the Hall
of Fame I've ever read, HallFame, Tattoos, Hall of Fame,
Fields, Hall ten of course,heroes and Icons. I'm a big fan.

(15:52):
Enjoy these books. So it's cool. And Bruce has read every wrestling
book that is worth reading and somethat were not worth reading, and he
is a huge in He has saidthis before. We get questioned about this
Greg all the time. You know, what, what wrestling books do you
recommend? I'm overwhelmed. I don'tknow where to start, or I've read
these, but it seems like there'sbribe some goodhams I don't know about,

(16:12):
and Greg Oliver and Stephen Johnson's threebooks that Bruce just mentioned are often on
I had Bruce has mentioned often inthe past. So that's a it's not
just because you're on the show,Greg, let's a sincere and consistent compliment
from Bruce. So so Bruce's checkis in the mail, as you're saying,
right, yeah, well he coulddo. That's the least he could

(16:33):
do, right, right, Greg. At least somebody makes the money out
of these books. Yeah, Iwas. I was amazed when somebody started
in the book publishing industry started sendingme. And this is like ten years
ago when the book wrestling book thing, or maybe fifteen when mc foley's book
came out. It was a bigdeal. He started sending me the the
what it called book scan numbers,I think is what the term the numbers
of like how many books sell andlike I think just people assume if a

(16:56):
book goes on market that it sellslike a million copies, you know,
because you hear of you know,John Grisham and you know Hillary Quinton put
out a book or whatever. BillO'Reilly, It's like most books are you
know, sell in the in thehundreds or thousands, not the hundreds of
thousands. So they give you aperspective of Canada and you know we have
such a small population compared to theUS. A bestseller in Canada it's five

(17:18):
thousand copies. Wow, yep ye, So you know that, you know,
we we've sold over that. Butit wasn't all in Canada. I
mean obviously our big markets in theUS, and you know there's lots to
say about it, you know,being next door to the one of the
biggest markets in the world. That'sjust a Toronto. Yeah, Bruce,

(17:38):
One thing I want to ask you, and I'm gonna until you get back
off done with your walk. Iwon't lean on you too much, but
I want you to uh talk alittle bit. As part of the introduction
of Breig Oliver on our show here, what about the three Hall of Fame
books stood out to you? Tomake them books that you reread and like
so much and that that can helpus lead into a more in depth discussion

(17:59):
with Craig about the creating and writingthose books. Well, you know,
when you discom it if you say, this is a lot of profiles of
the top wrestlers in the world overthe history of wrestling, the major league
wrestlers. There's such a variety,there's such a flexible thing of all the
all these characters, and it's anoutlaw sport. I mean, it's an

(18:22):
outlaw genre that's unlike anything else inthe world. And I think I think
Greg and Steven Sicheler moving him saidof it, I think they have a
real good, a real understanding ofwhat it really is. It's like you
get these colorful stories that are asentertaining and as wild as I think you'll

(18:44):
ever hear anyway, But but there'sso well resoarched and they're so well put
into context. Get a much betterunderstanding of what this business is all about.
And it's so entertaining to read ittoo. I mean, it's just
that's you know, people that youhear might be in a territory and you
know you've heard the name, haven'tthought that much about them, and they

(19:06):
just have this It turns out theyhave this unique story. You know,
it's great at WWS and the modernera and the possession values and the revenue
streams and all those things that weare used to now, it's been great
it's been a great business for onehundred and twenty years, and I think
these books really reflect that. Uhgreat. One of the parts of those

(19:30):
books that I really appreciate and thinkif that people should be is just the
introduction to the Heels Book. AndI think I'm remembering it right because it's
been a lot to the read.But Jake, like Jake Roberts and his
quote about what it takes to behere and what to do and what not
to do, and there's a lotof other people quoted in there that that

(19:51):
in just an introduction, that thatset the table so well for a lost
art of being healed. And letlet's just talk about that aspect for one
minute, because I was I thinkthe question we also got for the All
Stars panel version of AU Tours thisweek that you answered talk about what when
you watch wrestling today, and youwatch some of it today peripherally, it's
not something you're just watching every minuteof every week, but you keep up

(20:14):
on things enough, what and inrecent years, what has changed about the
way heels are utilized to draw moneyin this business today versus all the entire
span of history that Bruce was talkingabout and you wrote about in your Hall
of Fame Heels book. Well,I mean the fundamental change isn't the heel.
It's the nature that they don't goto the same place as every week.

(20:37):
And so you used to have tohave a heel and a baby faith
that drew money in the sense thatpeople would go back week after week to
see the storyline and see what happenedto this guy, to see the bad
guy get to come up, andto see the good guy get the revenge.
And that meant you have to havecompelling figures that were there every week.
And that's gone. I mean,ww is like ice capades now or

(20:59):
the circus. They only come totown, you know, a couple of
times a year if that, andthat's what we're stuck with. And so
the other fundamental part is just themerchandise and just gone so far. I
mean, while Bill Kerry used tohave shirts, but now everybody has a
shirt. I mean within moments ofdebuting that, you know, the Wyatts
had their own shirt. You know, to me, that's just so insane

(21:22):
on so many levels. You're tryingto be hated and be this crazy faction,
but yet you know you're trying tomake money off it. So it's
so counterproductive that nobody believes anymore inthe sense that they're heels. They're just
here to entertain us, and theyremind us of that all the time,
that the sports entertainment. So it'sjust so fundamentally different. And I think
I appreciate what Bruce says about thebooks, and we are trying to capture

(21:44):
a part of the past that isn'taround anymore, that was never really documented
in the sense that you know,like the Saber guys are always writing about
baseball history, and so we knowthe stories of all these guys, most
of these wrestlers, there's not aton on and you're not documented that in
that sense. And Jake Robins wasa perfect example. I mean, to

(22:06):
sit down with him in it wasactually Halloween and he was in Toronto for
an event, and we just sortof sat in the back. I took
him off for pizza and then wesat in the back and he just explained
that the nature of how being agreat heel works. I mean, they're
they're great memories, but to getthe guys to open up and share it
is quite remarkable too. Well.Have there been any wrestlers in interviewing them

(22:27):
for your book who were reluctant toshare what they saw because they world timers,
as as trade secrets or things thatshould only be shared within a certain
circles. Did you run into thata lot when trying to research your book
and get quotes, Not that Ican think of. I mean, some
of these guys, I mean,especially by the time heroes and icons came
out, these guys knew who Iwas. Like, you know, Dusty

(22:48):
is a perfect example. I meanI wasn't really expecting to get a lot
about Dusty, but I mean hewas awesome, and he's you know,
call any time. I love whatyou're right. Those kind of things are
quite you know, redeeming, andit makes you really they feel great about
what we're doing, and you know, but then other guys they're they're just
so quiet anyway, like a paidroom. Morales was not a great storyteller,
but I got more out of themthan I thought it would and more

(23:11):
than anybody else seems to have evergotten. So you just never know how
things are going to come about.VP Sale Alert. We're running a sale
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(23:55):
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Pwtorch dot com slash go VIP thatwill include are all in post event VIP
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minute Keller Conversation VAP exclusive with SeanWaltman this week talking about Terry Funk,
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(24:59):
you think he's turning heal, orfriends if you think they stay friends.
That is I feel the same waywhen doing interviews. Is one of the
best things you can get is whenyou're done with an interview feeling like the
wrestler the prison interviewed gave you morecontent, talk to you, more revealed,
more shared more insights and stories thanthan others than any other interviews that

(25:25):
they did, because then you knowyou're adding to the pot you know,
of of of wrestling history when youdo that. Yeah, that's a good
point there. It is a collectivething, and certainly we couldn't have done
it without some of the podcasts thatare out there, or the guys that
run the fan fasts and bring theseguys all in together and all these things.
I mean, it makes this sodoable compared to the way life used
to be for us. Let mebring Bruce and Bruce you have a follow

(25:47):
up. I'm putting you out inhold most of the time just because we're
getting background noise because you are onyour walk. But do you have anything
to add before? I'm sorry itis you know, it's it's traffic and
I'm about a block away from home, so it's smarter. Yeah, I
mean, going back to the heels, what I really liked about the book
with something that I think a lotof fans don't realize and a lot of
wrestlers is lost that a heel isa good wrestler who is insecure, isn't

(26:12):
quite good enough and then has tocheat to win and everything. Every decision
that a good heel makes comes fromthat. And there's so many places you
can go and there's so much heatis that and just watching it, you
know, in this there or reallyother era, that's the most aspective thing.
It sounds simple and maybe even itsounds a results you're not you're not

(26:33):
thinking through, but it's it's wherethe greatest heels come from, out the
cowardly heels. Yeah, and that'sfilled out Greg in the introduction to your
book too. You know that thatin so many words what Bruce just said.
He said that your intro said thesame thing, and that the great
heels get their heel heat. Becauseanother way to put it is for whatever

(26:59):
reason, and it's not always it'snot laziness, or even it can be.
It can be laziness, it canbe wanting to take a shortcut,
it can be just a lack ofbeing as good as the top baby face
in the territory. But when somebodycheats in order to get ahead, that
is something that is universally recognized inany culture at any time in history.

(27:19):
There's a set a human sense inhumanity that people should get what they deserve
and if they cheat to get somethingthat they don't deserve, they're worthy of
ridicule. And I think that getslost sometimes and it's one of the reasons
that heels get cheered a lot isnot only that the heels aren't doing their
part, but wrestling announcers have lostthe art of shaming the heels and it's

(27:41):
something that I thought, actually,Michael Cole in the last couple of weeks
has made a concerted effort to bebetter at and he's actually been shaming copy
ofs like Alberto d Rio and RandyOrton for their tactics. And I think
you need to have that announcer aspart of the part of the music that
fans are hearing. That that storyand does this kind of match up,

(28:04):
Greg with your thoughts on on theevolution appeals to a degree. Yeah,
I mean, we we all liketo go back to the days of Bobby
Heenan when he was on the commentaryand was cheering the heels or Jester Ventura.
But the fact is that is avery nineteen eighties kind of thing.
That wasn't always the case in theseventies and the sixties. There was usually
a legitimate sportscaster or you know,maybe use the weather man or whatever it

(28:27):
was. But he had a realjob at the station and then he was
calling the matches, so you hadsome legitimacy there that nobody was a shill
for the company, and certainly thatdoesn't exist anymore because that's all these guys
do or our work for the company. Yeah, our email addresses PW Towrs
livecast at gmail dot com and ourphone number is six four six seven two

(28:51):
one nine eight two eight at sixfour six seven two one nine eight two
eight. I just hung up exspiked it in on I think seven one
four, So please call back ifif you can. Our first email question
comes from David from Memphis, aB Team member, and he says,
Greg, as a historian on tagteams, do you know of any tag
teams that hitted each other behind thescenes but shined together in the ring.

(29:14):
I'm a fan of Tyson Kid,although not his portrayal on Total Divas.
Why do you think the next generationof the Heart family d H Smith,
Teddy Hart, Natty and TJ havenot really caught on at a national level.
So two part question there you cantackle either one. First, Well,
tag teams off the top of myhead, I mean not off hand,
I mean they used to travel somuch together that you know they had

(29:37):
to get along, whereas today,I mean the guys could go their separate
ways and then it just rested inthe match and then leave again. But
I mean, there's so much timeon the road that if you didn't get
along with somebody, you had anotherchance to go to another territory and do
something else, which is again somethingthat doesn't exist anymore. Today's Heart Family.
I mean TJ on Total Divas,that's hilarious. Yeah. I got

(29:59):
an email them just the other day, just something about and I said,
I don't like you on Total Divasand I've known him for many years and
he said, yeah, we'll waitto see me next week. Yeah he
We all know it's it's reality TVbeing very much in quotes and not exactly
on the up and up, butit's still lots of fun to watch.
And and you know what, whycan't they do this every week on Raw?

(30:19):
Just I mean a sense that,you know, give us some actually
reason to care about characters again.And that's you know, I didn't care
about any of them before, butnow I watched them week after week and
I'm in trance. I want tosee what they do with Eva Marie.
I want to see what they're gonnado with Joejoe. These are things that
they seem to lost the art ofdoing on actual raw. Okay, but
that's sorry. That's an aside tothe Heart family. You know what,

(30:41):
Harry is one of the greatest wrestlersI think in the world, but whatever,
the chrisma vacuum just isn't quite there. He's such an awesome guy to
sit and have a beer with.He's personable, he's friendly, this nut,
but somehow it just doesn't translate intoit being a big star. I
mean he could be Curtis Axel andHayman being his spokesman and he would be

(31:03):
perfect. Yeah, Tyson needs somethingand maybe it's that rub from Punk that
he's going to get. I thinkwhen he gets back Natty, you know,
she's done about all she's really capableof doing in a diva's division.
I mean, it's just a flawof the division, not the flaw of
your talent. I mean, sheis one of the most talented to women
wrestlers in the world. You haveto mention Teddy Harton there, who shot

(31:25):
himself in the foot so many timestoo that I mean, again, a
great talent, but just is theperfect example of the flippity flops that don't
necessarily think about wrestling start to finishand telling a story as much as they
do about getting their spots in Yeahso's. It's been interesting watching them all
develop over the years. And there'sa couple of the hearts wrestling to Smith.

(31:47):
Hard has a couple of sons thatwrestle around southern Ontario and they're pretty
good, but again they don't havethe size. And then that's the one
thing Harry has gone for him hissize. He was, He's always been
a huge kid. Bruce that you'rewith us, Yes, I am very
good and you're not on your watch. So anything to add to that topic
or any follow up for Greg No, I mean, you know, I

(32:08):
think that most tag teams. Theonly one I could really think of Greg
that that really seemed to hate eachother and never never reconciled to the point
where when when Sandy died, theystill went together as the Scott Brothers out
of Canada, George and Sandy Scott. You know, great hero tag team
that that you know did well,It did really well across the country and

(32:30):
of course settled in the Carolinas,but they they traveled together and they just
didn't seem to get along and theywere they were, you know, blood
brothers. Yeah, no, that'sthat's a good point. I mean that
that stems up from actually it wastheir father's funeral where the follow it actually
happened, and they both told mea little bits of it. But I

(32:50):
mean that could happen in any family, not just wrestling related, So which
is again is partly different. Youcan you choose your friends, but you
can't choose your family's. I guessthe Moorrow that part of the story.
Yeah, So just trying very goodif you're just joining us. Greg Oliver
is our guest on Interview Friday toDay. He is a Canadian wrestling his
story based out of Toronto, Ontario, Canada. He is the publisher or

(33:15):
was the publisher in the late nineteeneighties of the Canadian Wrestling Report, which
was pre dates the beginning of theProgressing Torch newsletter, and also is author
of many wrestling books, including Hallof Fame Tag Team. Greg. If
people want to find your books,can they go any international national retailer online

(33:37):
to find them or is there aparticular website you recommend? No, I
mean Amazon will have them all Whata lot of people don't know is that
you can go to any bookstore andif you know the book you want,
they'll order it for you. Yeah, I mean, and the fact is
they might order two copies because somebodyelse has asked about it. So that
helps. That helps a guy likeme that you know, my book might

(33:57):
get to a store that might nothave gotten to otherwise. But I mean,
yeah, Amazon, you can't reallybeat that anymore. Yeah, but
yeah, any of the bookstores shouldhave it, especially the most recent one,
Heroes and Icons. They don't alwayscarry a lot of back back issues
and back you know, back bookswhat do you call the backstock, but
you can certainly get it from them, and they order it if you want.

(34:21):
But Heroes and Icons is the mostrecent one, and it's it's done
pretty well and we've been pretty pleasedwith it. And but what we have
found is that, you know,somebody might pick up Heroes and Icons in
the store and then they realize,oh, there's a Tag Teams, Oh
there's a Heels book. Oh there'sone on Canadians. Well that sounds interesting,
though. That's a much harder sellto you know, Americans who believe
they are the center of the universe. Yes, Yes, and guilty in

(34:45):
a general sense as as charged.Absolutely support us on Patreon starting at four
dollars in ninety nine cents get theseshows, add free and bonus VIP content.
That's four dollars and ninety nine centson Patreon. Patreon dot com slash
pwtorge vi i P. That's patreondot com slash Pwtorch vi IP. That

(35:06):
is the quickest, cheapest and easiestway to support us and enjoy these shows
with a streamlined listening experience. Theweight Keller post shows, podcasts, and
the Pwtorch Daily casts plus some randomVIP bonus content. All right, sick
fourth step seven two one nine eighttwo eight is the number. If you

(35:29):
got a question about Canadian wrestling orwrestling history in general, or take teams
or heroes and icon give us acall. Greg Oliver is our guest.
Bruce Mitchell, senior columnist for prosingTorch newsletter and pwtorch dot com. Is
my guests or is my co hostToday? I want to go back to
our email again. If you've gotan email question, can send it into
to PW torch livecast at gmail dotcom. Next question comes from Greg from

(35:53):
or not Greg from Matt from Wisconsinwho says, go pack go Can you
ask Greg Oliver? But when hereceived the Melby Award in Waterloo and Brett
Hart was there to when Duck stewinto the Hall of Fame, Brett took
it upon himself to burry Greg insteadof getting a speech about his father.
Has Greg ever talked to Brett aboutthat since? And have they buried the
hatchet? Uh? This always comesup, you know, the fact is

(36:20):
that Brett did what he did.He had had three or four previous occasions
to talk to me in person wherehe could have said something man to man
instead of taking the position he did. And whatever he did, that's that's
fine. It's his progative. Ifelt it made him look bad, but
that was his choice to do it. And uh, I mean beyond that,

(36:45):
No, I mean I don't needto reconcile with him. It's his
opinion. He's entitled to it.I don't really appreciate the fact that he's
since made it a point that ifone of my wrestlers is from or one
of my writers is as you know, slam wrestling writer and talks to Brett,
that he will shut them out ifhe knows are from slam. Wow.
But yet the stuff from the Sunsand the Calgary Sun, Toronto Sun,

(37:07):
whatever it is, we have accessto that. So, I mean,
it's not like we've been Brett hartless. But whatever. It's like
I said, it's his thing.I've never I've met just about every member
of the Hart family by now.I've been to the house. I've been
the Brett's house. I mean.So it's not like this is some guy
that couldn't have you know, ifhe had a problem with whatever he had
a problem with, he couldn't havebrought it up with me in person.

(37:29):
For those who don't know, whywhy did he bear you? What was
the gist? I mean it justseems there's there's there's two parts. Okay.
In the Canadian Book he was ranked. I don't have it right from
him. I think it was fourteenth. And he had a problem with that
because you know, in his mind, he's the greatest thing that ever Canadian
wrestler ever. And that's fine,that's his opinion. And you know,

(37:50):
I consulted a lot of historians anddid a lot of research and this net
and I might not have ranked themwhere I did. If I was writing
the book today, be lower,might be higher. I don't know.
There's I felt some guys they definitelygot short changed in the Canadians book.
But the other part that I heardthrough somebody who's very heavily involved in the
business and sought out Brett to findit out. You know, Apparently Brett

(38:14):
didn't like my review of his autobiography. But weird thing is it's it's a
completely positive review because it was anamazing autobiography, But the fact is he
didn't agree with the point that everybody, you know, it's only one side
of the story from Montreal, youknow, which I made note of that.
You know, there's still Brett's story, there's still you know, Vince's

(38:37):
story, there's still Shawn Michael's storyfrom Montreal and the screw job. So
this is just one side, whereasto him, his was the rule.
What happened is the truth. Sowhatever you can't you can't change people's minds.
And it's interesting that the the transcriptof it, you know, is
out rare in the web if youseek it down, and I know video

(38:59):
exists of it, but I've neverseen it. So do you did the
experience with Brett in his reaction toyou, do you think it would have
been different had you not been basedin Canada? Do you think that he
was especially sensitive because he felt thatyou should be the hometown guy making sure
that the hometown hero got treated well. And it doesn't make sense in the

(39:22):
Canadian book because you're writing about allCanadians. But still, do you think
he took it more sensitive than hewould if it was a guy from la
or New York. I don't thinkso. I mean part of his beef
is, of course, you know, the tried and true, which I'm
sure you've heard before. Oh,you've never taken a bump in the ring.
You don't know anything about this sportor what I do for a living,
So therefore anybody who covers anything istherefore ineligible to do it. I

(39:44):
you know, I'm just stupid.Peter King should not be writing about football
because you know he doesn't play professionalfootball. So it's just such a ludicrous
argument that you can't do anything butshrug. If somebody feels that way,
Yeah, yeah, I'll bruce anything. You want to add a follow up,
Yeah, it's always part of BrettHart. I think now is that

(40:05):
he does have physical effects from theconcussion and concussions in the stroke, and
part of that is emotionally, hecan be you know, he can be
pretty straightforward and then he can bevery moody, and I think it depends
on when it when something strikes him. And yet you know the fact that
he took himself so seriously as partof what made him a star and what

(40:28):
made him, you know, sogood in his heyday. But yeah,
I think that I think that thathim reacting so far out of proportion to
what the situation was maybe has somethingto do with that. And and also
a just might be being a jerk, you know, I mean, there's
there's there's always that. I thinkthere's more jerk than the excuse of the

(40:49):
stroke because he's had how long,great years to not be in a mood
and be a man and apologize orand and like you said, you're not
waking up every day waiting for it. It's not affecting your life. But
nevertheless, just speaking for breast perspectives, if we're going to make an excuse
for him that it was a badday, he's had a lot of days
since then, some of which Iassume we're good days where you could have
said, you know what, that'ssomething I should do with and the fact

(41:10):
that he's trying to blackball your entirepublication from you know, I mean,
that's just that that shows that it'sit's beyond a bad day bruise. Yeah,
no, no, I think that'sI mean, I think it's I
think that's an aggravating factor. Butyeah, I think that I think you're
right, and I think that it'sthere. I also think I've always felt
like this, if wrestlers did,if they did their craft and they did

(41:32):
their art and locked the gym dooror locked the arena door and didn't let
people in, or didn't charge peopleto come in, then they would have
something to say. Then you couldsay something about never taking a bump or
never been in the ring. Butthe fact is they're doing it. They're
doing it for an audience and theaudience. And since they're doing it for

(41:52):
an audience, the audience has youknow, the audience understands things too,
and you're charging you're charging money todo it, then it's a given type
between the audience and the performer.And so you know, from from our
side, those of us who arenot in the ring and not in you
know, and not taking a bump. Do you have a perspective too?
And that's Greg. I thought itwas interducing. I thought it's interesting.

(42:15):
Last week in the ESPN Grantline articlethat the interview with Triple H, he
said, uh, And I thoughtit was just remarkable because it takes away
one of his defenses for for youknow, it takes away the an argument
he might make about people on theoutside judging them because it's not as Greg,
you know, because you mentioned it'sit's not only Brett who has said

(42:36):
that, a lot of wrestlers havesaid that over the years. Triple H
said, you know, one thingthat Stephanie has been benefiting from is she's
off the road most of the time. She's watching the show, and she
doesn't know what plans change. Shedoesn't know what politics went into making the
decision. She doesn't know the audiblesor the alternate plans. All she sees
is a final product. And thenwhen she watches that, it gives her

(42:58):
a perspective that gives her more credibilityto comment on the show than if she
were in the trenches with us.And I thought, wow, that's a
quote I'm going to say next timeHunter says, oh, who are you
to judge? Because you know oranybody. It's even a Hunter had said
Stephanie gains from being out on theoutside looking in, because then you're watching
it, like you said, Bruce, as a fan, as opposed to

(43:20):
a participant. It's like nobody,like musicians are always hard on themselves.
Oh it was a bad, badnight. I was off, I was
off pitch, I missed this note, you know whatever. But if the
crowd love the concert and they're notsitting there looking for misnoes, that means
more because the performance was done forthe crowd, not for the band,
right, Yeah, yeah, it'sit's both way, you know, it's
both ways. There are certain thingsthat there's certain things that Russells are right.

(43:43):
And I think that if Greg hadwritten and are you know, Greg
written something critiquing how you know howBrett performs the moves that he did,
or gave him advice that you couldonly learn by being a performer in the
ring, that would be one thing, right, But if you're you know,
all the other all the other contextis there for is there for people
watching and particularly for people who who'velearned a lot about the history of the

(44:06):
business and all the different ways thatthat it fits together and all the different
ways than it works. Yeah,you know, it's it's something that that
I think also that it becomes somethingwhen you can't For wrestlers sometimes that are
mad about something, it becomes somethingthey can say because they don't have another
combat and it's sort of a tell. I always think that's kind of a
tell that you really don't have anythingto say about the argument. You really

(44:30):
can't come up with anything to sayabout the argument, so you say that,
and you know, it's it's fine. So yeah, you know,
I you know, but I dothink I do think he takes that Canadian
hero part very seriously to the pointwhere I think Greg Greg has a Greg
has a more holistic view of theCanadian wrestling the Canadian wrestling history. Thanks

(44:57):
for downloading today's show. Take itto the next level with the VIP membership,
get shows like this, the WaitKiller Prosing podcast, Wait Killer Prosing
Post Show, and the Pwtorch dailycasts on our Pwtorch VIP podcast feed with
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(45:21):
that you're missing out without a VIPmembership, So go vi ip here in
twenty twenty two and enjoy all thebenefits, all the bonus content and the
ad free listening experience. Pwtorch dotcom slash go vi IP. So I'm
gonna got good people three courts sevenand eight six two. But on hold

(45:42):
while I'll get to you real quick. But I do want to do a
follow up on on Brett Greg twoparts. How big of a celebrity is
Brett Hart in Canada relative to otherwrestlers, other sports athletes and other TV
stars, movie stars, politicians,whatever you know, whatever makes somebody a
celebrity. In part two, didBret Harts did seem this side of Brett

(46:04):
Heart and the fallout since then ofthe pettiness of trying to shut out your
reporters? Did that change your perspectiveat all? On the Montreal screw job
in ninety seven to the second part? No, I mean it was always
a work. We always knew itwas sort of not that the thing itself
was at work, but that wrestlingis a work and in the end,
it's the decision of the boss todo what he wants and that that will

(46:25):
never change. So and then asfor what do he means from Canada,
I don't know, because wrestling fansare so passionate. So when they had
the chance to do the greatest Canadianthing of all time that CBC did,
I mean, you know, whatwas well was like your wrestling fans are
gonna, you know, get theirpanties in and get out there and vote.

(46:45):
And so I think Brett skewed alot higher than he does in the
general public. If I went outand asked, you know, twenty different
people who Brett Hart was, Ibet they're going to be three or four
that would know who he was.What do you think that number would have
been in the in the late nineties. Oh, probably little higher when he
was on TV all the time.Yeah yeah, but he's not on TV
anymore. Bret's not like an institutionwhere he's popping up everywhere like Hulk Hogan

(47:07):
does in this country where he's stilldoing talk radio and commercials and all that.
He still does a lot. Imean to Bret's credit. He's always
done a lot of charity stuff,especially the March of Dimes and things like
that, so he's still out there. But uh yeah, it's it's it's
partly his personality too. He's notalways the warmest guy that they invite back
right away, and and you knowhe I don't know. I don't want

(47:29):
to get personal on some of thisstuff, but you know, I respect
what he's done in his career.He I was a Bret Hart fan club
member. We talked about fan clubsearlier, and it's just sort of ironic
the way it all came about.But whatever, you can't change the way
things happened. And I felt Ideserved the award. He felt I didn't.
That's fine. He used his chanceto talk about his father's career to

(47:52):
attack me, and find that's hisright as well. One of the most
memorable things is afterwards having guys theBaron von Rashki come up and say he
doesn't speak for all of us.Those are the nice memories you get out
of it. Absolutely all right,let's go to eight six two. If
you want to call Greg Oliver hereon the PW Torch live cast. The

(48:15):
number to call a six four six, seven two one nine, eight two
eight. As always, you canfind us at PW Torch livecast dot com.
That's where you can listen live Mondaythrough Friday and Sunday nights a half
dour after pay per views then andyou can also listen on demand to any
previous shows. Eight six two Thanksfor calling. Please state your name and
where you're from. Kiss from NorthNew Jersey, Kylan. What have you

(48:37):
got for us? Okay? Ihave three two. Question number one,
Greg, why do you feel thatRinch McMahon refers to Canada as bizarro World?

(48:58):
Well, that one's an easy one. I mean, they can't control
the audiences up here. I mean, for whatever reason, we haven't been
quite as spoon fed or you know, follow the storyline. So at some
point Jerry Lawler i think, referredto through the bizarre Land, and they've
just kept referring it to as that, which is unfair. Certainly, that
New Jersey audience after WrestleMania was veryrogue, but that's you know, that's

(49:20):
because there's so many international guys intown. But so what it's wrestling.
It's we're there to do what wewant. We're the fans. We're the
ones that paid to get in there. So I think it's just something they
need to get over and run withit. You know if it if it's
going crazy that night, then it'sgoing crazy that night. So what run
with it? What else? Youguys? I agree? Question number two,

(49:43):
Greg, do you see any possibilitiesof Duckies of Ye opening a Canadian
version of and and next development ormaybe a Canadian performance center specialize in international

(50:08):
talent. HM. That's that's areally good idea. The problem is it
wouldn't get to be as hands onas it is now. I mean,
the performance center they have is soeverything is so controlled. They know what
these guys are doing, they knowall that. If they start, you
know, running in a separate country, they gotta have somebody they trust and

(50:30):
all these things. It's a biggerissue. I think it could have happened,
you know, maybe ten years ago, but I don't think it'll happen
anymore. I think they're pretty happywith the way the performance center is there
in Florida and that everybody's all togetherand college. Your question for us,
okay, and the hard one who, in your opinion, Greg, is

(50:57):
the is the best Canadian wrestler ofthe last twenty five years. Twenty five
years, well again that it's different. It's apples oranges in some ways.
I always loved Chris Benoa. Hewas a tremendous performer. He just didn't
have that magic on the stick thatChris Jericho did Sittina Manilla. I mean,

(51:21):
he's not the greatest wrestler in theworld, but man, he's entertaining
the watch. But I think ingeneral, it's probably been Edges the one
that did more with less. Andthat's not to say he didn't have it,
but I mean, I don't thinkanybody expected him to end up with
the career he did after the wayhe started. I mean I used to
see him wrestle in Toronto bars andI have a notepad somewhere that says,

(51:42):
you know, could be good ifceiling was higher. So I think he's
probably the one that that far andaway did more than anybody thought he would.
And Jericho has kept really saying becausehe stepped away from the business so
much, and and Adams found thatperspective now that he's he's moved away from
the business too, which makes youvery happy for him that you know,

(52:04):
he's found his happiness and contentness eventhough if he's not in the business,
and Adam often that the day youget in the business, you should be
planning for the day you get out. Absolutely. And the other good thing
is, like you know, hisbuddy Jay Christian is is very similar to
Adam in so many ways that youknow, he's he's still a well grounded
guy that hasn't let all this famego to his head and he's still pretty

(52:28):
well the same guy I first met, however, many years ago. Very
cool, Kyle, appreciate the callas always, Yeah, very good.
Uh, Greg, the what isas far as Canadian wrestling goes in terms
of the ebbs and flows of itspopularity? Where does it stand now relative

(52:49):
to the last twenty years in termsof the intensity of the hardcore fans who
love the product and how much itpermeates into the mainstream. Hm, Well,
I don't think it permeates in themainstream much at all. Yeah.
Uh, just it's just one moreof a thousand different things on television now
and so it doesn't get the coverageit used to. Yeah, it seems

(53:12):
so quaint to look back on days, you know, when we had a
hundred channels, but now there's fivehundred channels, and there's all these web
broadcasts and there's all these things.So I mean there is still some interest
in it, and it still doesokay, you know, live with the
big stuff WW But the indie scenespretty well, I think, just like
anywhere else. You know, there'sguys who are really good on the indie

(53:35):
scene here who never got their breakand but that are great performers but aren't
going to go anywhere. And that'sthe reality. And I think that's what
makes going to indie shows fun andcompelling still, is that you know,
you see these guys and you're sortof rooting for them in a degree,
but they're never going to get itanywhere. But but other than that,
yeah, like I said, Ithink it's pretty well just like anywhere else.

(53:58):
Just you know, wrestling is sling. It's got its core audience and
it doesn't really go a ton beyondthat at the moment. That could change
once they find that one magic guy. Maybe it's standa Brian. I don't
know, Willie crossover and be somesort of celebrity. Crazier things are happened.
We got a follow up to ourconversation earlier by email, and I'll

(54:19):
take this and then we'll go toour next caller in area code five six
one, So hold on tight ifyou want to get in line on the
phone. Banks six four six,seven two one nine eight two eight is
another and our email is PW tortsLivecast at gmail dot com. Don't forget
Next Monday, our co host todayBruce Mitchell joined by Travis Bryant for the
Monday PW Torchs live cast that airslive in the hour leading up to Raw.

(54:40):
And then next Tuesday we're switching days. James Caldwell and Greg Parks hosting
on Tuesday. I hope Greg knowsthat covering with all the wrap up of
what happened the night before on Raw, and I'll rest and topics you want
to talk about, and the nextWednesday Pat McNeil with his guest, and
then Thursday I'll be hosting. OnThursday a rare or say appearances for me

(55:00):
on the live task and then ofcourse we'll be back here next Friday with
another interview. Back to the email, This comes in from Kofe. I
guess Kofi he wants to know whyis it bad for heels to get cheered.
If the audience likes what they see, then why try to get them
to boo oh? Greg? Iguarantee that this person is under age thirty

(55:22):
because if you if you were onlyexposed to the product the last fifteen years
post nWo, post ironic cheers,it does It is a natural question to
ask because I think fans who areyounger look at wrestling and go, I
just want to go and cheer whoI think is cool. And if I
think it heals cool, what's wrongwith cheering? I mean, it's an
honest, innocent question, but absolutelycompletely totally exemplifies a bad development in the

(55:50):
industry in my opinion, Yeah,is it a bad development? I don't
know. They've They've made lots ofmoney in the last number of years with
ww and that's fine, but yeah, it is. It is strange.
You're right if you put yourself intheir shoes and they go, well,
why, Well, the fact is, yeah, like wrestling used to be
about hating the bad guys. Itused to be about you wanted to go
see them get their come upance andsee the good guy emerged victorious. And

(56:14):
that didn't happen every week, butit happened, and you believed in those
heroes like Bruno Sammartino was a heroto an entire population of immigrants, and
Petter Morales worked to a lesser extent. I mean the white he Caldwell down
in you know, the Southern States. I mean, these guys were iconic
nic you know, he was biggerthan Brett Hart in Canada, I think

(56:38):
at his peak in the Aba Territory. Need an extra dose of positivity in
your wrestling podcasts, will come joinme Alan fell Over in the Progress Paradise
at Peanut Short VIP as we baskon the bright side of wrestling and focus
on some of the great matches andshows from around the world, be at

(56:58):
the US, Japan, Europe orMexico. There's always a place for wrestlings
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We Love Lger series celebrating the gloriouscareer of Juician thunder Lighter and our I
was there when shows where our guestswill join me to talk about a classic
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(57:20):
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(57:42):
VIP mobile site. See you inthe Paradise, Yeah yeah, Now again
we start talking about politics and itwas his promotion and this and that.
But you don't want you don't getto stay on top unless you have something
there, something magic. Uh.Whereas today the business has changed that there

(58:04):
are just so many guys that theyget their push and they just want to
sell the T shirts because that's wherethey make the extra money and they forget
about being hated. And we goback to Adam Edge there. I mean,
he's one of the last great trueheels that they had. And again
he probably made a lot of moneyoff merch but you know, he was
so slimy, he was so greatat that rated our superstar thing. Uh

(58:25):
that it was. It was itwas the throwback. Uh's the way things
used to be and you know whateverit was like, you know, they
tried to do that with right back. But somehow it just doesn't seem the
same. And if I knew allthe answers, they they probably would have
hired me by now, oh no, that's not true. If you know
the answers, that doesn't mean youget hired. There you go and they

(58:45):
changed the question. Yeah, orthey decided yeah that and have you are
you a wrestling fan? Okay,well now you're scratched off the list.
Let's go find a soap operator.Timing on that too, because I know
you have a lot to say aboutthat too. Well I kind of want
to take this in a different directiontoo, But yeah, I mean that's

(59:08):
you know, I just know Greg, you must. I know you've talked
to a ton of authentic characters andguys who you know who have to be
very garrulous and you know, andand just rack and teers. As far
as telling stories, I mean,can you reflect on some of the people
that h huh I said the StorisAlert Dictionary, Like, yeah, yes,

(59:32):
but can you a great storytellers?The people that you called for these
books that you just went damn,they could go on and they're fascinating.
Who are the best, Who arethe best storytellers from the history of rustling,
from from the major stars. Uhwell, I mean the guys I
missed, like Gene Kiniski. Imean, he was so awesome to talk
to. He was a guy whototally got the idea of the media that

(59:52):
without the media, you don't exist. And so whether it was a talk
show, whether it was talking toa guy like me, whatever was,
he always took the time and wasalways great to talk to him. They
finally meet him in person and justshoot the bull with him was one of
my favorite things. Ever, there'sother guys like you know, a Dusty
Rhodes has that charisma just on thephone. Even Hogan, you know when

(01:00:14):
I sat down with him. Theseguys have an it factor and it may
be all bull when when you heartheir stories and you don't have to necessarily
call them on it in person,but you and I know that this whole
wrestling business is it's about hyperbole andabout exaggeration and making yourself bigger than life,

(01:00:35):
which and I've said this. Wadementioned my hockey book. It's called
Don't Call Me Goon, and it'sinterviews much like we did with heroes and
icons and heels, where you justlet the guys tell their stories. But
the fact is that with the sportsguys I talked to, they don't have
to brag and make up stories becauseeverything's all documented. Right. We know

(01:00:55):
how many penalty minutes you had thatgame, we know what you did that
got you in the box. Weyou know, whereas a wrestler they think
they can put one over on youall the time. So wrestlers in general
become great storytellers, and some ofthem are just fabulous bs artists. Bobby
Jaggers. I mean, it wasone of the greatest liars of all time
and and but I mean I stilllove to call and talk to him.

(01:01:17):
Buck Robley, who just died.I mean, he was awesome to talk
to you, everybody he came intouch with. You know, he made
happen, and there's there's elements oftruth to it, but it's not the
whole truth. And that's part ofmy job at his historian. And that's
again we get back to what youknow Brett may have gone off on.
If there aren't historians trying to findthe middle line, then the propaganda rules

(01:01:42):
a day, and we don't wantthat. You got to have somebody who's
unbiased, who's trying to figure outwhat exactly happened? Bruce, you would
saying, yeah, No, Ijust think I think it's such a Your
books are so colorful, it's sucha colorful history that, yeah, you're
going to have these lodging, charismaticguys, and then you know some of
them like a Buck Robeli or aBobby Jaggers, who you know, in

(01:02:07):
the latter parts of their life didn'thave as much chance to use that that
rack and tour part part of theirpersonalities. Getting a chance to getting a
chance to tell tell it their wayto you know, to someone that's gonna
who's gonna record it and keep iton a book. I just thought was
I think it's one of the bestparts of the story. So I just
who disappointed you? Who'd you thinkwas going to be a good interview or

(01:02:30):
was gonna be gonna give some importantparts of the book, and then it
was hard to get get what you'vebeen looking for out of them? Disappointment.
That's kind of a It's a funnyword, isn't it. I Mean,
like I got more out of PeterMorales than I thought he would,
But yet it could have been soawesome to get more. So there's sort
of that aspect. There are guyswho capabe a little bit. Yeah,

(01:02:55):
I guess I'm a little bit stuckon that one, Bruce. I don't
know exactly who did well who tostay in there. Yeah, I'm not
looking for you to bear anybody,So I mean, that's not that's not
exactly where I'm looking together. Tobe honest with you, and and you
were talking about early on, wrestlershad to Wrestlers stayed in the same territory,
the same community, and they hadto be able to draw month to

(01:03:17):
month every two weeks. Okay,Bruce, Bruce, I'm gonna interrupt you
because I want you remember that thought. But I don't want to lose our
caller. We had a caller inholding. I didn't mean for you to
add a whole new subject to things, So save that question, I thought.
But I don't want five five sixone, if his time is limited
to drop off, I want togive him time to come in on the
We're down about three minutes fare timehere five six one. Please state your

(01:03:37):
name and where you're from. Thanksfor joining us. Hey it's Matt from
Marstahana. Hey. Wait Bruce,Hey, Matt, thanks for thanks for
Colin. What have you got forGreg today? Greg? I was just
wondering if if you could do abook on anybody that you're not familiar with,
who would it be? And someof your favorite current guys on the
wrestler and right now? And hem, okay, well, if there's

(01:03:59):
a rest playing book out there,I mean naturally, the one I want
to do is going to make methe most money, and i'd be probably
the Rocks. You know, you'dbe stupid not to do a real biography
in the Rock if that came up. I mean, putting money aside.
Who fascinates you the most that therehasn't been a book written about. I'd
love to see real books written abouta couple of guys. Dusties was not

(01:04:20):
what Dusties could have been. BlackJack Mulligan's was pretty atrocious, you know,
those kind of guys. For me, I'd still love to see a
proper Whip or Watson one. Butagain, it's, you know, is
it worth it for me to putin a year of work for you know,
something's going to sell three four thousandcopies? But it's the kind of

(01:04:40):
guy that should be documented. Hewas so important to the history of Canada,
not just Canadian wrestling, that itshould be should be documented. There's
other guys like that out there.I mean, why who McDaniels a fascinating
character that in easily a book couldbe done about. So I don't know.
I don't really have any commitments doingstuff like that. I've had lots

(01:05:02):
of talks with many guys, andI'm sure you guys have had wrestlers say
hey, will you write my book? And then you think about it and
go, well, the world doesn'treally need a peat Gas book, so
you know you just gotta put thatstuff aside. Sorry, what's their second
part of the question? Let meget Matt back on, Matt, did
you have a part two of yourquestions? Yeah? Who are some of

(01:05:24):
your favorite guys that are on?Now? That's right today's roster. I
definitely like where they're going with RayReliott. I always thought he had potential,
so it'd be interesting to see JoeHenning. I saw his first match,
so I can't wait to see whatthey do with Curtis Oxwell. So
those are intriguing guys. It maynot be my favorite ones to watch,
but I do want to see whatthey do with them. Very good,

(01:05:46):
Bruce, you you are introducing anotherquestion. Let's say that for the other
side of the music, because we'llwrap up the live cast portion here and
on the other side of our transitionmusic we will introduce your next topic.
Greg Oliver has been our guest hereon the live cast. Greg, you
have a few more minutes to staywith us for a couple other topics.
Sure, okay? Cool. GregOliver Canadian wrestling historian, author of many

(01:06:11):
wrestling books that come highly recommended fromthe Torch, including the Progressing Hall of
Fame, Heroes and Icons, ProgressingHall of Fame, The Heels, Progressing
Hall of Fame Tag Teams, anda new book, Don't Call Me Goon,
based on a sport of hockey thatsome Americans are familiar with and that
we'll talk about that in the aftershow a little bit too. Greg Oliver

(01:06:31):
of Slime Wrestling, Wrestling The Story, and formerly The Canadian Wrestling Report.
Greg, thanks for joining us hereon the livecast. Thanks for having me
on, and you can read Gregon our PW Torch app If you are
a PW Torch b I T member, you can read it on the website.
To download the p W Torch Freeapp, and you can get that
by doing a PW Torch search onyour phone and look for the all star

(01:06:53):
panel of which Greg is a partof it. The feature debut yesterday and
we've published it two mornings in ourown Tomorrow I'll be the third day and
we'll we'll go from there. Soevery morning good reason to check your phone
and to check the p W Torchapp. All right to if you're not
a VIP member, place to gois pwtorch dot com flash go v I
P. That is pwtorch dot comslash go vi i P and that will

(01:07:15):
give you all the information on whatit takes to become a Torch p W
or Pwtorch VIP member, including accessto over twenty five years worth of archives
growing all the time. Two hoursof the Bruce Mitchell's VIP audio show every
week where you talk about current eventsand history in depth, in more depth
than you're gonna find anywhere else,and many many other v I P p
ss I talk about on the showall the time. All right, on

(01:07:38):
the other side of music, we'regonna get a couple of other topics with
Greg. Thanks everybody, and untilnext time we tell her on behalf of
Bruce and Greg signing off the windowafter running here every day. When you
want to reach you don't have towait for the weight Keiller Pro Wrestling post

(01:08:06):
show to find out what I thoughtof Monday Night Raw SmackDown. Each week,
you can check out my reports thatare updated live throughout Raw and SmackDown
at pwtorch dot com. My writtenreport we'll tell you what's happening in detail
in case you missed the show,and it will also analyze key segments and
give my random thoughts end quips onwhat I'm watching as it airs. So

(01:08:28):
check it out every Monday night andTuesday night at pewtorch dot com. That
also applies to WWE pay perviews.I covered those live at pwtorch dot com
with a detailed written report with starratings, and of course you can find
other TV reports from other contributors topwtorchs such as n X, t ROAH,
Impact Wrestling and more. Check itout pwtorch dot com your first stop

(01:08:48):
for TV and pay per view writtenreports. All Right, Gregor and Allen
the VPP after show portion of theprogram, Bruce my apologies again for cutting
you off mid question, but Idid want to get to our less less

(01:09:09):
collar. They're not lose him.Go ahead, Bruce, and please restate
what you were saying. Yeah,back before you were talking about we were
talking about heels that heels and babbyfaces. Top stars had to come back
into an you know, come backto an arena week after week or every
two weeks or once a month andbe able to draw I'll be able to

(01:09:30):
come back to come back in.They weren't touring nationally like the Harlem Globe
chatter so w W or T andA does these days, and the world's
just different. I'm not saying one'sbetter, one's worse. But one of
the most one of the best partsI thought of your book was talking about
guys who like Whitey Caldwell or CowboyBob Kelly or Verangania that were so endemic

(01:09:50):
to their communities, that were sosputting that we wrote somebody that was just
so, you know, known character, known in the neighborhoods, known around
and because of that, you know, they had to play that character,
They had to be that person.Can you talk about that aspect of professional
wrestling, because I mean, allthrough your all through all three of those
books, there's a lot of examplesof that type of thing. Yeah,

(01:10:14):
well you mentioned play that character.Well, I mean some of them,
they actually are that character, andthat makes it either. I mean Sputnik
was Sputnick Like I met him onceand you know, he was just he
was just a whole different cat thanthan your normal person. Uh. And
Bob Kelly really is that nice aguy, and that's part of the reason
he really, you know, gotover with the fans. So yeah,

(01:10:34):
it's just it's not it's not anart that's lost. It's just it's a
part of life that's sort of lostin the sense that there wasn't a thousand
other things in the city to doeither. So those wrestlers were entertainment for
a lot more people than you know, they didn't have, you know,
five hundred channels on TV. Theyhad the chance to go out to wrestling
and yell and scream. And itcould be at the ballpark, it could

(01:10:57):
be at the armory, it couldbe anything. But I mean it was
a chance to get out. Uh. And these characters became known around town,
whether they you know, they wentto the local mall to do as
signing or you know, whatever itwas. They were a part of the
community and that's long gone in somany ways, and I think wrestling is
poorer for it, and I thinkour societies are poorer for it. But
it's not coming back. So I'mnot gonna cry for it too much.

(01:11:21):
Question, Yeah it does, ButI do think that that your book,
that your series of books like reallydoes bring some of that back or or
record it for posterity. And andyou know, something that's unique that's now
passed, that's now passed on isthere again. So I like that about
about those you know, Waddy Caldwell, uh, the Tennessee hero that died

(01:11:45):
in the car accident and then youknow, the whole community was just stunned
and his long time rival steps upRon Watt Ron right, And it's just
it's something that people talk about forfor decades. You know, if you
if you have the right wrestling fan, that's what they're gonna tell you about.
And you know too, the winnergoes with Spools in WWF WW one

(01:12:08):
the Wrestling War. And we livein a different media age, but you
know, the you know, thatfabric of professional wrestling I think is really
cool. I mean, all ofit is, and I think you guys
serve it well as far as thanksfor so, I appreciate that. But
the part that also that we can'treally talk about anymore that we used to

(01:12:29):
was the ethnicity. That the stuffthat mattered. You know, the Italians
were playing to the Italians. Therewas a Polish guy because he wanted to
get the Polish fans out. Imean, that's where Wholesovn got his name
is because you know, Vincent ManSenior thought well, we need an Irish
name, and that's it's it's almostpally incorrect to talk about that now,
but I mean in the sense thatyou know, we put Tiger cheat Sing
in the Heroes and Icons book becausehe was an iconic figure in the South

(01:12:54):
Asian community in Toronto at that time. They those people came out to worship
their hero, who is probably themost high profile person of Indian descent in
in probably North America. And thatis something that you know, again,
society has changed. We don't talkabout things in the same way. It
doesn't really matter where you're from howyou succeed, But it did back then.

(01:13:15):
And that's what I mean. Someof these guys who they were go
ahead through something. Yes, yeah, I mean I know I had had
a short conversation with your co authorauthor in Charlotte about this, Steve Johnson,
But you know, yeah, Imean that's a part of the history
and as part of it, andit and it, and it spreads across
more than just pro wrestling, thethe ethnic heroes, and he would you

(01:13:39):
know, I know, you know, he's working on a Jim Landes book
and researching that, and that JimLandes might have been the wrestler, might
have been the first ethnic sports hero, you know, in our country,
and that that history it works inthe culture too. There's more. There's
more to it than just professional wrestlingand what big shows they were in and

(01:13:59):
who their big rivals were. AndI think your book does a very good
job of not just looking at thestoryline aspect of it or the or more
the k fade. Here are thetitles that they want and all that,
but here's the real story of thatperson and then what happened to them after
after their territory faded or their glorydays went away or whatever. And that
that I always appreciate it because andI think slam Russell does a good job

(01:14:23):
of that too, because I'm fascinatedby what happens to celebrities, what happens
to people when when their lives changeand that's no longer part of their lives,
and how do they handle it.Some of them handle it very well
and some of them not so well. But that's definitely representative. What you
guys did. I appreciate. Andyou know what, that's something we tried
to do with the New Hockey Booktoo, is that you know, what
did these Schodons do afterwards? Imean, it's something I made my co

(01:14:45):
writer Richard Campson, go back anddo. In a couple of cases,
it's like, this is a greatstory. I really like it. But
once he do, now you know, and because you know, if he
if he's on TV still doing hockey, while he's still involving hockey, so
he's happy, and if he's outselling herbal life or something, well that's
interesting in a different way. Onequestion, what were some of the commonalities

(01:15:05):
that you found between because hockey guns, there's a real culture and an outlaw
thing about that. Between between doingthe book on the hockey games with the
differences and similarities with them and professionalwrestling characters. Right, You're right there
there are some similarities. I mean, for one, they're they're generally fans
of each other. I've certainly foundthat that a lot of athletes are fans

(01:15:27):
of professional wrestling because I think ingeneral, wrestlers get to do things that
they wish they could do, uh, you know, talk about their boss
or whatever. They recognize its storyline, but they still really get off on
that that. You know, theyget to be so much more creative than
you get to be, just inyour quote after the game kind of way.
But yeah, the Goons many theywere colorful characters as well. And

(01:15:50):
it doesn't mean there weren't other colorfulhockey players too, but the Goons they
sort of rode the bench a littlebit. They didn't get in every game.
They may have found ways to stayat home and you know, sharpen
their knuckles before they fought. Imean, they're they're just a neat part
of the game, and we justtried to get out of the way and
let them tell their story, whichis sort of what we did with the

(01:16:11):
other books, the hockey books andas sorry with the wrestling books. I
mean, these guys telegrate stories ontheir own. If they're not around any
more to tell it, then wefind other people that tell the story.
It leads a little bit into Iwant to talk about Chris ben Wah,
the impact that it had had inCanada. You were part of the ben
Wall wrestling with the horror that destroyeda family and crippled the sport was Steve
Johnson, and he's mccroner Mushnick.What first talk because I want to talk

(01:16:35):
about concussions, and that plays intohockey. Golts who was a famous Minnesota
or a popular Minnesota wild player,died of a drug addiction that was from
paintbells, which was stemm stem fromheadaches he received from concussions his whole career.
Chris ben Wah, how big ofa story was that in Canada.
I'm sure you had your pulse onhow big it was in the United space.

(01:16:56):
To a degree, didn't impact Canadamore or less than you imagine it
was. Well, I mean,in retrospect, I don't think it really
made a huge impact, but atthe time it was certainly a big story.
I mean, it was so colorful. The Canadian guy who was a
big star, and you have toremember, I'm partly colored in the sense
that I mean all my associations overthe years have been with the Sun newspapers,

(01:17:19):
which are tabloids, which are thereforealways going to try to play up
with the slightly more colorful stuff andthe crime and stuff like that. Anyway,
So like I knew it was theSun story from the moment. I
actually that was one of the paperviews. I remember I was at the
John Powell's house watching it and Icalled, you know, the Sun immediately

(01:17:40):
said you're not going to believe this, you know that kind of thing,
and then they ran from there.So yeah, I don't think it had
a huge impact in Canada in thelong run, but it was a neat
story and it sold a lot ofbooks in a short amount of time.
But I think more importantly did openthe discussion a lot more. It was
so high profile that it opened thediscussion concussions. Whether it was obvious that

(01:18:02):
the NFL started talking about it afterwardsor the NHL did, but it was
so high profile and so many peopleblame the concussions on TV that it was
impossible for any other sport that dealswith concussions to ignore it. So I
think that got us to where weare today where you know, Roger Goodell
just did that announcement where they basicallypaid off all the former players that are

(01:18:26):
complaining about concussions issues and not knowingwhat would happen to them. So there
was a good legacy that came outthe Chris benwas stuff. Unfortunately, there
was a lot of tragedy too.Every Sunday Night, catch Wrestling Night in
America on Pwtorch Dailycast dot Com,hosted by me Pwtorch columnist Greg Parks.

(01:18:49):
Each week, I'll welcome a cohost from the Torch family to discuss the
big shows in pro wrestling, takingyour calls and emails. You can listen
live most weeks beginning at eight pmEastern on Sunday Night. It's with a
WWE or Impact pay per view,we go on the air. At the
conclusion of that pay per view.You can listen live, but of course,
the full show is available for downloadon demand anytime shortly after it airs.

(01:19:10):
Visit pwtorch Dailycast dot com and clickthe live stream link to find the
next scheduled live show link. SearchPwtorch and Apple Podcasts or your podcast app
to subscribe. Wrestling Night in Americaevery Sunday, PWTRCH, Dailycast dot Com

(01:19:35):
connections between that and hockey and andhow I mean it's got. I mean,
hockey is so much bigger in Canadathan than it is in the United
States. It's bigger than it iseven in Minnesota, although it's you know,
we call ourselves a state of hockeyas a marketing get in the Minnesota
wild called the state of hockey iskind of a marketing thing. But it
is big here high school and collegeand in pro level it is very big.

(01:19:57):
And concussions are a big concern inat every level of hockey. It's
it's also obviously a big deal infootball and at affects baseball too. But
how much has that been an issuewhen you've been when you wrote your hockey
book in terms of maybe finding thatwith hockey players there were signs of concussions,
cumulative concussions leading to some issues asthey entered their forties, fifties,

(01:20:20):
sixties. Well, see, thatwas the thing I had to break out
of the concept that I have withwrestling that if a guy's in his eighties,
he doesn't have his marbles. Withhockey players, they could be in
their eighties and still have their marbles. They're still pharma cognizant and more aware
and all that kind of stuff becausethey always had medical care. They always

(01:20:40):
had a union, right or notalways, but you know what I mean,
for the most part, they gothelp. If they got hurt on
the ice, somebody took care ofthem. If a wrestler got hurt and
he was on the road, hegot back on the road because nobody looked
out for him, nobody else.He knew he had to make a buck.
If he wasn't out there, hewasn't making money for his family.
So that's on the mental difference rightthere. And I've since learned that.

(01:21:01):
Yeah, I mean, I cantalk to hockey players in the nineties that
are still around and they can stilltell great stories. They might be a
bit repetitive, I'm sure if Isaw them week in and week out,
they tell similar stories again and again, because a lot of guys fall back
to their favorite stories. And that'sthe same in life, not just in
hockey or wrestling or whatever it is. And so you didn't find that hockey

(01:21:23):
players even when it was I mean, I don't think they were. I
don't think there was nearly obviously,the type of attention on concussions. It's
like, you know, get outthere and play, get out there and
play. It was kind of theway things were done, not even that
long ago, and certainly many yearsago. So and you, fortunately for
you and the hockey players especially,you didn't find that to be something that
you saw as a major Well,there are some. I mean, one

(01:21:44):
of the ones I talked to KrisNowinski about is Reggie Fleming was a famous
goon from the Chicago black Hawks andplayed for the Bruins a bunch of other
teams. But I mean, hewas one of the first hockey players whose
brains they got when he died,and they could prove that there was the
CC whatever, it's the sent intruth moved blah blah, but they could
prove that it was there on ahockey player. And I talked to his

(01:22:05):
son and he said that really helpedexplain his dad's mood changes and how things
happened over the years. And thereare a lot of lessons to be learned
with that. With the wrestlers,and we talked a little bit about Brett
and the concussions. I mean,it's the same reason like you talked to
Roddy Piper. He does not thinkin a linear line like you and I

(01:22:26):
do because of all the bumps andand well and whatever else he ingested in
his body over the years. Andso you have to be a bit more
forgiving when you're or you learn tobe more forgiving when you cover this beat
as as a profession, Bruce,anything more you want to answer this discussion
or a new topics. Yeah,sometimes when I when I read your books,

(01:22:47):
I would kind of put myself inthe mode of you know, with
all the technology, there's a lotthere's a lot more of there's a lot
more matches that you can find oron YouTube or or preserved. And guy's
works are preserved if they're lucky enoughto have been had they had their careers
during a time when technology could dothat. And then but then I read

(01:23:08):
your books, I think, youknow, a hot time in wrestling,
it'd be really cool to seeing thisand there's no way to see it,
you know, and there's a lotof them. But I think of Johnny
Valentine and and Wahoo McDaniel. Isthere something when you were researching this,
is there is there a time inwrestling that you would have liked what you

(01:23:30):
go back on a time machine andsee or or something that sounded just you
know, the pique your imagination thatas you were doing this research. Well,
I mean it's not going to resonatereally with maybe your your listeners,
but I mean there's bear Man.Dave mckickney was a guy here in Ontario
who ran He died with Adrian Adonisout in Newfoundland and in eighty eight,

(01:23:51):
so twenty five years ago. ButI mean he was always a fascinating guy
to me, and I'm fortunate toyou know, I met the rest of
his family of the years, butI really wish I met him because so
many guys have stories about them andhanging out on the Bearman tours and stuff
like that. Like there's little thingslike that that I wish I could go
back and find a way to bein a time machine, just to be

(01:24:13):
on the road with these guys asthey traveled from town to town and had
their beers and uh, you knowI've been I mentioned beers, well,
Colonel the Beers has become a friendover the years and I've roomed with them
a number of times at the CollegeRally Club reunions, and I mean he
tells the most amazing, hilarious stories, almost all of which I could never
write because they've been incriminating on somany levels. But I mean they lived

(01:24:36):
these crazy lives that just can everexist again. I mean society has changed
so much. So yeah, Imean there's a part of me that wishes
I could be you know, theyoung rock and rolled are hanging out with
you know, led Zeppelin again andand living the days thro the Shark and
whatever. But that's that's just mebeing old and wanting to be young again.

(01:24:56):
I think partly too. Yeah.Yeah, you know when I think
about those things, I don't thinkabout I don't regret where I am or
what I did. But I alsoyeah, it's just a matter of wow,
that's something that must have been youknow, hell on wheels in its
day, and led Zepplin on tourwould have been meant too. So yeah,
I used to always hate my gymteacher, you know, because he
saw led Zepplin when they played Kitchener, Ontario, where I grew up.

(01:25:19):
You know, I play at theauditorium there, and it's like, oh,
that's awful. Don't tell us thesethings. Yeah, so yeah,
don't tell you about. Yeah,I mean your books due to me as
if you're a wrestling fan and witha with an open mind, how many
ways things succeed and how they failand all that it does a vote those

(01:25:40):
feelings. I mean, I don'tsee the cash I wish I could have.
I mean it got am less ofsomething for doing it. But as
like like, wow, that wasanother time and those you know, you
know, the assassins causing a riotsomewhere, I mean, that would have
been really as long as you didn'tget hurt, it would have been really
something to see and in a differentare a different you know, a different

(01:26:01):
era in North America. So well, a lot of times wishing I'd ask
the guys questions when I met them, Like hard World. Haggety must have
had a lot of question a lot, a lot more interesting stories than I
never got out of them. Imet him a number of times, but
I never really stopped down and interviewedthem. And that's, you know,
one of those you know regrets youhave at LA. Yeah, very good,

(01:26:24):
Bruce said anything else before we wrapup today? No, I'm good.
I'm good, Greg. It's niceto finally talk to you there.
Books. Yeah, I wish Icould get down cool guys well hopefully beyond
again down the road. Absolutely,we'd love to have you back. I
think there's a lot more to talkabout and we can be a little uh,

(01:26:45):
I mean kind of meander is isa negative connotation. We hit a
lot of subjects in a wide span, and it'd be fun to have you
on for something that's a topic specific. We could really go in depth on
it too. But I think wehit some really good, really good discussions,
and I you know, we doan interview every single week on Fridays,
and we have a wide range ofguests from a wide range of backgrounds,

(01:27:08):
and you are absolutely It's two yearsago we started doing interview Friday and
and having a historian and author onlike you is absolutely part of the mix
that I wanted when we started thisproject. And our goal is to entertain
our listeners and talk about current stuff, but also provide that big picture perspective
from people who know what they're talkingabout. And that applies for you,

(01:27:29):
Greg. You're You've got the bigpicture of perspective and you absolutely know what
you're talking about. So we reallyappreciate you taking time to talk to us
here on the show. Thanks youbet so, Greg, guy, do
you want to plug anything else beforewe go, like, Uh, it
certainly won't be a smartphone. Youare on Twitter, but you don't own
a smartphone. Yeah, exactly,so I don't know what that says,

(01:27:50):
but I don't really need it.Uh. Yeah, No, one's short.
We're looking forward. They're really promotingthis hockey book. Don't call me
goon ye trying to do something new. Uh. Wrestling continues to plug along
usually just tell people who go toslam dot CAA and click on the wrestling
there h's. It's a very uniquesite just in the sense that you know,
we're both the newspaper side of thingswith the Sun media chain as well

(01:28:13):
as uh, the stuff we do, and it's not all news and gossip.
I mean, we look at itas journalism first, not that you
guys don't, but just I mean, I think we come at things from
a little bit different perspective. We'renot trying to get every sort of rumor
that's out there and somebody picked hisnose. I better get a story up
about it. That a lot ofsites do. And uh, and I
think that's what's kept me saying overthe years because I don't have any interest

(01:28:34):
in all that stuff. So verycool. Yeah, it's called Don't Call
Me Goon. That is just justreleased when Greg well, we're actually having
the book launched in a couple ofweeks, so it's it's heading the bookstores
now, but certainly go to Amazonand order if you're a hockey fan and
order all the proosing Hall of Famebooks. And we did the Ben Wall
book, and we did a bookslam Wrestling where we collected the best the

(01:28:57):
best articles, which was a lotof fun to do but hasn't been quite
sold as well as some of theother one. Well, we appreciate all
that you've contributed and appreciate you beingon the show, and we definitely want
to have you back. And don'tforget VP members who we are listening to
this can see Greg respond to awide variety of topics throughout the week on
the f W TWR chapp and exclusivelyfor VPP members on the VP website.

(01:29:18):
Also on the All Star panel,Greg I said at six times the last
five minutes, but thank you verymuch for being with us and we hope
to have you back. And Bruce, thanks for adding to this conversation with
co host as usual, good deal, good deal, all right, thanks
see bat, thanks great good touchand Bates seekin after all these years.

(01:29:54):
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