NEW FLAGSHIP: Keller & Parks talk TNA-AMC big TV deal, Punk vs. Breakker, Cena retirement, AEW Continental Classic, age of champs

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 2 (01:37):
Now PW Torch and Spreaker bring you the Wade Killer
Pro Wrestling Podcast. It's time for the weekly flagship talking
current events in pro wrestling.

Speaker 3 (01:52):
Craig.

Speaker 1 (01:52):
It's not often that we get to start the flagship
with TNA News and so I can't resist. TNA and
AMS announce a multi year, three year deal roughly estimated
to be thirty million over three years, about ten million
a year for rights fees to a Thursday night Impact series.
Impact moving to AMC, perhaps it's best channel to date.

(02:16):
I don't know how we'd compare that to say Spike
or Well, we can get into that, but a boon
to TNA's revenue, and a reward for some increased tendance
and buzz with the WWE relationship, which has some pros
and concerts we'll get into, but I'm kind of it's
kind of exciting because basically, now greg TNA moves into
the category of being able to be watched by nearly

(02:40):
as many people as AW there's sixty sixty to seventy
million who have access to AMC and around seventy million
or so who have access to TBS and TNT not
that far apart, so it could end up landing on
more people's radars. What is your top takeaway and then
we'll dub into some of those subtopics.

Speaker 4 (02:57):
I think doubling their potential audience really go from Access
TV to AMC is doubling the potential audience, and I
think that's really interesting and it's going to be interesting
to see how TNA handles that, like where.

Speaker 5 (03:11):
Do they go?

Speaker 4 (03:11):
Because I think it's great for the TNA wrestlers and
you know, people who are TNA fans who've been through
thick and thin, They've been all over the dial on
prominent stations and not so prominent stations, and they get
an opportunity again to be on a very prominent cable station,

(03:32):
although AMC not exactly known for professional wrestling, so it
may take fans a while to find them.

Speaker 1 (03:38):
On their Their heritage is the AMC sense for American
movie classics. What could be a better match for TNA wrestling.

Speaker 4 (03:46):
Yeah, and even like their signature series like Breaking Bad
and mad Men, not exactly movies, you know, so you know,
even there, even their really good series have not lived
up to the name of the network. But anyway, Yeah,
I think it's really interesting and TNA is in a
really interesting time because their roster and their creative fits

(04:11):
a very small audience that they had on Access TV.
It is not broad creative, It is not daring creative.
It is not pardon me, but very interesting creative at
this point in time.

Speaker 1 (04:24):
I mean I dubbed it time capsule wrestling.

Speaker 5 (04:27):
I mean it really is.

Speaker 4 (04:28):
And you know, they're coming off of a bound for
glory and a that was not exactly well received by
those who did watch it, the few who did watch it, uh,
and they are coming off a live TV taping where
Mike Santana, their most popular wrestler, lost the TNA title
that he had been working for for over a year
after holding it for a month, and that was a

(04:50):
decision that was pretty universally panned and even got the
attention of people who don't watch DNA, and it basically
was like, this is why I don't watch DNA. So
the fact that they're moving to to a more visible
network at this time in the company's history is going
to be interesting. That's why I say what they do
creatively and with the roster is going to be fascinating
because they really need to make some changes. They cannot

(05:13):
be successful on AMC with the creative they've been running
and really with the roster. The roster is pretty underwhelming
at this point. Now there is the potential for a
lot of turnover because a lot of contracts are expiring
in December and January. Very early in twenty twenty six.
They're debuting I think January fifteenth, somewhere in that neighborhood
on AMC, So the roster could look very different when

(05:37):
they debut or two months after they debut, versus where
it stands now. So you know, the partnership with XT
is going to help. It's going to kind of buttress
that roster. A little bit and give it a little
bit more depth. But TNA eventually kind of has to
stand out its own two feet and the roster that
they have now is just it's not very exciting. They've
got some talent like Leon Slater, guys like that. They've

(06:00):
got some legacy stars that can draw, like a Nick
Nemath and the hardy boys that people are going to
recognize from WWE. But in terms of like carrying the
brand two or three years into the future, I'm not
sure they really have that man or woman. I mean,
this is not exactly a banner time for the Knockouts division,
something that had carried TNA for parts of its existence

(06:25):
on Spike TV and elsewhere, and the Knackhouse division isn't
really anything to write home about right now either. So
this is definitely a time for transition and it's real
opportunity for TNA to improve those two pieces that are
going to be critical to their success on AMC.

Speaker 1 (06:43):
I look at the wwetal as you know, there's clearly
aspects of the association and the raising awareness of the
brand that has helped ticket sales for TNA. It might
be the key to them getting to deal with AMC.
But you also can get reliant upon somebody, like you know,
if if you're in a relationship and your partner is

(07:05):
responsible for paying all the bills and then suddenly they're
gone for whatever reason and you're like, I don't even
I don't even know the password to the like insurance
company website, Like you can get totally reliant or for
cooking and you know or whatever, you know what I mean.
Like there's there's things where in a partnership you kind
of get reliant on the other person and you lose
that skill over time, but it kind of works out.
You know. Well, if if t Anda has gotten addicted

(07:29):
to the boost that comes from WWE star power, like
the freshness of bringing someone in like a Trick Williams,
they could have spent that time instead developing their own
stars internally, or maybe searching high and low on the
indie scene for someone who they developed over this time
to be ready. But they haven't because they had sort
of the crutch of, oh, we'll just bring somebody in

(07:51):
from WWE to to give us a spark, or we'll
get a little boost from them talking about us on
their TV show in front of a larger audience, and
I'm curious. I mean, it's a you know, their agreement
with Adobe is a multi year thing, and I don't
know how formal and structured it is, but there's something
about this deal where you're like, it'd be good for
t Anda to kind of break away a little bit

(08:12):
and say, let's make sure anything that we get from
WWE is not something that we're reliant on or that's
changing our ability to be self sustaining without them, because
you know, people are talking about, oh, why don't they
just use crossover talent and trade talent more? And it's like,
because wrestling bookers like to be in charge of their
own destiny. They don't want to be at spending TV

(08:34):
time promoting somebody who they don't have better contract than,
they don't have control over. And they definitely don't like
giving their talent up to someone another booker to mess
around with, or perhaps they get injured in a match
and then you lose access to them. That these crossover
things have some negatives, but to me, one of the
one of the biggest negatives is you just get reliant
on them and you can get a little bit complacent

(08:55):
about the things you need to be doing to be
self sustaining. So I am curious if they kind of
kick that into your especially because they have a million
dollars a month extra roughly to play with in terms
of salary and production.

Speaker 4 (09:05):
Right, how much of that money that they're getting from AMC,
And I'm you know, thirty million dollars when you compare
it to what AW and WWE are getting is a.

Speaker 5 (09:14):
Drop in the bucket.

Speaker 4 (09:15):
But for TNA, I think that's impressive that they could
get that haul, And I'm interested to see how they
utilize it. Do they utilize it to upgrade production? Do
they utilize it to bring in a bigger name talent?
Are they going to be now in the in the
market the same way that ww ANDAWR.

Speaker 5 (09:35):
Are they going to be bidding.

Speaker 4 (09:36):
On some of those wrestlers that WWE andaw have been
exclusively bidding on for the last few years, So that
that part's going to be interesting too. In terms of
the relationship with XT ANDWWE, I think it could be
really beneficial in terms of getting an audience to AMC
right away, because, as I said, AMC is not exactly
known as a destination for professional wrestling. But if you've

(09:59):
got NXT on Tuesday nights telling their audience. Thursday, January fifteenth,
tune into AMC to watch TNA, you know, while Mike
Santana is on TV or whatever TNA talent is being
utilized at that time. I think that could be really
helpful to get an audience to sample TNA that might
not otherwise have had access to it because it was

(10:21):
available in so few homes. So at least right away,
that relationship could prove fruitful. Not necessarily because of the
talent exchange, although it wouldn't surprise me to see TNA
kind of load up on NXT talent there in the
first couple of weeks, but just by being able to
kind of advertise on NXTTV where their new home is
going to be.

Speaker 1 (10:47):
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(11:10):
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Check it out pw torch dot com your first stop

(11:32):
for TV and pay per view written reports. The name
TNA has a rich history and well it has a history,
complicated history, a complicated here, thank you, Yes, going back

(11:54):
more than twenty years. And I think if twenty years
ago you said they will be around in twenty twenty
five with a sometimes live primetime Thursday night time slot
on a major cable network with reach that's in the top,
you know, tier of cable networks. There's a lot of
people be like, come on, what happened? Like how did

(12:14):
this company last that long? They are the company And
this sounds negative in its tone. I don't mean it
that way. It's the company that won't die like it.
So many people have predicted their death and frankly they've
obviously they haven't. There's been periods of time they haven't
been sustained based on good decisions and fan support. They've
been sustained based on people funding it who were not

(12:40):
entirely dependent upon profitability and might have had other motivations
for funding it, you know, whether it was Pen Energy
and it was kind of a Dixie Carter side project,
you know, every kind of ownership. Groups have had different
motives for keeping it going or wanting it and and
more power to TNA for surviving. You know, they've they've
had you know, I mean, they've had obviously turnover in

(13:01):
management and creative where there's almost nothing left from the
original days other than Frankie Kazarian and Eric Young. But
they are survivors, and there is sort of like Greg,
is there an identifiable TNA fan who has stuck with them?
I mean, I know at times over the years we've faced,
you know, that sort of criticism of if you're a

(13:23):
pushback from a group of fans who are TNA fanatics,
or if you say something negative about them, you hear
from them. I don't feel that exists as much now
as it maybe did ten twelve years ago. But yeah,
what is the legacy of the TNA brand as in
terms of it having an identity where somebody today goes,
I'm a TNA fan, I have a t ANDNA Wrestling

(13:43):
T shirt. What is it that makes them choose TNA
over AE, W nxt RAW, SmackDown, New Japan, ROH all
the other options.

Speaker 4 (13:53):
Well, I think for a long time it was just
that they were the alternative WWE, and there were times
where t was a substantially better product than what WWE
was putting out, even if WWE was making more money
and drawing more fans. So I think just being that
challenger brand and being the kind of underdog to WWE

(14:13):
for a long time, and now they're the underdog to
I guess more so AW than WWE, both because AW
is its nearest competitor in WWE is a partnership in
some ways with them right now. So I think just
being that alternative brand, and there are people who are
always going to like the underdog. They are always going
to be people who like the alternative. They're the people

(14:34):
who cheer for the backup quarterbacks in football, right They
don't like the starter, no matter how good he is.
They want to see what the backup is doing. And
those I think are the people who support TNA and
just the people who've gotten in that habit of tuning in,
just like Monday Night Rack can be a habit. You
sit down on Mondays and you watch RAW. Whether you
like the product or not, it's part of what you

(14:56):
do every week as a person, and that habit gets
ingrained in you. And I think for some people that
habit of watching TNA, even if you had to kind
of chase them around the dial, that became a habit.
And so it's been pretty consistent on Thursday nights. It's
going to be on Thursday nights again on AMC. I
know there were some rumors that, you know, WWE may

(15:16):
try to nudge them to be on Wednesday nights to
take a chunk out of AEW's audience, But I think
Thursday nights is the right call. That's kind of their
legacy night for them. But beyond that, TNA I think
has kind of been a shape shifter in terms of
what it is. It's it's always tried to be the
alternative to whatever WW and AWR, and when WWE was

(15:39):
not putting on very good matches TNA was the place
you could go to get very good matches when WWE
wasn't offering fans something and TNA found saw that that
opportunity was available to them to offer that to fans.
I think they kind of morphed into that. So being
being the Challenger brand, part of that is just kind
of morphing your identity into whatever for the fans feel

(16:01):
like they're not getting from either the top brand or
the top two brands in today's case.

Speaker 1 (16:06):
In in a sense, yeah, it's good to be pliable
and flexible and not strident in what your vision for
pro wrestling because sometimes in AW might be running into
this a little bit. Is Tony Kahn's formula you know
in twenty nineteen was an alternative to that era in
the previous you know, three four, five years of WWF

(16:26):
or B excuse me out of vincient man. And it's
a different product. WWE's a different product now, for better
or for worse. It's just it's a different product under
Paula Beck and TK ownership and Cody Roads on top
and whatever. So is a w adjusting does Tony khn
have been in him to adjust his product to try
to counter what WWE is and that's a whole separate topic.

(16:47):
But when you add TNA to the mix, like you got,
what does TNA decide to do? Are they a company
with Utter Johnston and his vision and the support group
of Tommy Dreamer and how they want to do things
and what AMC is perhaps looking for content wise? Do
they have a kind of this time capsule wrestling formula
that they like and they're just going to do it

(17:11):
or are they going to adjust based on the landscape.
And sometimes you can watch wrestling promoter and go you
can tell they're not watching what the fans are watching
because they are not counter programming anymore. They're just stuck
in their ways. And I don't really know with nxt
ros SmackDown and Dynamite and Collision what I would even
recommend t and a Impact due to stand out. But

(17:32):
I and I don't say time capsule wrestling derisively. I
like it. I like the idea of just kind of
simplifying it, having a you know, a heel who throws
fits and a style of wrestling where it's not all
about just how many how many dives can we do?
Like they don't seem like there's you know, starvrating merchants
in TNA at the top of the car. They just
want to get crowd reactions for doing some basic, simple

(17:54):
stuff and then you know, you got some athleticism obviously
with Leon Slater and stuff. But I yeah, I just
my hunch is great, they're gonna just keep doing what
they've been doing. I don't think that there's gonna be
some sort of massive overall. I don't think they're gonna
go like super hardcore with like blad Got's matches compete
with aw and they can't build around having the biggest stars.
They're not even gonna pretend to do that because they

(18:17):
don't have the budget and it would it would seem
so fake. I think people be offended by it. So
just a comfortable two hours of time capsule wrestling where
you're trying to list a crowd responses more than this
is awesome Chance kind of feels like their niche and
I think they'll just keep it now. That's without them
doing interviews to explain anything in reaction to this. Yet,
what do you think?

Speaker 4 (18:36):
Yeah, I think that's a fair assessment of what they are.
But I want and I think that was fine for
Access TV, where you're drawing maybe one hundred thousand fans
maybe under that a week. But now you know, Access TV,
for those who don't know, is owned by Anthem Sports
and Entertainment, which owns TNA. So when you were talking

(18:57):
about ownership sometimes having a different reason for owning them
other than profitability. For Anthem, it was you know, this
is a product that we can put on our network
for two hours and not have to worry about finding content.
But now you're going to be beholding to a third party, AMC,
and they're gonna have certain expectations that come with this deal.

(19:18):
And can the wrestling that you put on every week
on Access TV, can you afford to have it be
the same product that you put on on AMC where
the expectations for drawing are going to be higher. I
don't know the answer to that. It'll be interesting to
see if they try. But you know the other thing
is I look at Tommy Dreamer and Delirious, who are

(19:39):
the bookers slash writers of Impact now And if TJA
wanted to make a splash creatively and change their creative philosophy,
movie Saar the World Champion moving in moving to AMC,
Like I just look at the landscape out there, and
back in the tear days, you could always bring in

(20:01):
a book or from another territory to kind of freshen
your territory up, to bring new ideas to that kind
of thing. There's nobody out there that is just begging
for an opportunity, I don't think, and correct me if
I'm wrong, but I don't see any potential top bookers
of a national cable television product that are just sitting

(20:22):
on the couch waiting to be called upon. So it's
not like, although it is I'm gonna regret saying this,
but it is interesting that Vince Russo is getting back
into booking at the same time that TNA is getting
back on nationally broadcast TV.

Speaker 5 (20:35):
And I'll just leave it at that.

Speaker 4 (20:37):
But there's nobody out there that I think TNA can
just pluck and replace this creative team with to bring
a new philosophy in a fresh coat of paint as
they're moving to AMC.

Speaker 1 (20:49):
Yeah. Yeah, it really would be a case of the
current team just going Okay, this worked and this fits
what AMC wants and hopefully they're watching enough other wrestling
to go. I think there's an opening, like for instance,
w B does a lot and we saw it last
night on Raw, a lot of finish, a lot of
non finishes to matches, run ends, DQ's double DQS, whatever,
and then a W is leaning on, you know, just

(21:13):
just heavy gore and violence and NonStop action. No pun
intend with TNA, but NonStop action without necessarily a ton
of logic, a lot of lung. So you know, maybe
TNA looks at the landscape and then they see NXT
and it just kind of feels like this college campus
of wrestler's gossiping about each other with bad acting and
and and and phony phony, phony, baloney skits that are

(21:36):
obviously just like you know, just high school, like middle
school play quality acting. Sometimes that's a very negative framing
of NXT. But I'm trying to say, you know, kind
of what defines what differentiates them from other things. It's
not the totality what they are, but what differentiates them. Well,
T and A can look at that and go, okay,
let's do clean finishes, Let's not do corny backstage skits,

(21:56):
Let's not do gore and violence, and let's not build
around having a ton of titles that maybe it's too
late for that. With their international titles. So but let's
let's do kind of some of what AW said in
their first press release. Let's be a sports league with logic,
clean finishes, and but also go for old school, traditional

(22:17):
heel face matchups, which neither AW or w B are
really focused on. There's a lot of you know, I
think I'd say Paula beck specialty is ambiguity leads to
ambivalence when it comes to crowd responses. He loves ambiguity,
he loves not having a firm line between heal and face.
But then you just get crowd reactions like Solo and
Gunthro was a really good match, and I'm not against
that happening, but like and then the tag match to
baby face teams against each other, but the fans, it

(22:38):
takes some while to kind of figure out how do
I feel about this emotionally, So I guess you know,
my guidance for TNA would be, look at what other
companies are doing, and then what can we do with
what we have budget wise, talent wise to differentiate ourselves.
And then let's execute that plan in a steadfast, consistent,

(22:59):
committed way and do it competently and give it six
to nine months and kind of find a way to
drop little hints to people, not telling them how to feel,
but kind of let them know we're kind of going
for this. We hope you notice. And that's kind of
where I think a niche is. I don't think the
expectations are super high by AMC. They're not paying rights

(23:19):
fees that frankly show super high expectations. But if TNA
over three years, has a plan and a niche and
differentiates themselves, I think they could get better rights fees
in two years when they negotiate a new deal, and
obviously that should be their goal.

Speaker 4 (23:35):
Yeah, I look at their roster now and I think
there are some guys and some women. I think the
philosophy should be to maximize the talent that you have.
It's not the greatest roster, it's not the most talented roster,
but there are some folks on there who you want
to maximize and get everything out of it that you can.

(23:55):
But I look at that roster today and I'm like,
who is on that roster who is being booked better
than they are, who is standing out as they're booking,
is making them look like a bigger star than they are.
There's really nobody. And there's also nobody who is rising
above their booking either, like who is a talent? Who

(24:18):
is you know, kind of in the Daniel Bryan mold
of creative doesn't seem to be behind him, but he's
really shining and really showing above and beyond the level
that he's being booked at. And I don't see anybody
like that fits in there either. So that's why I said,
from the very outset, like the roster is middling, the
creative is middling, and it will be interesting to see

(24:40):
how much that changes once they get onto AMC. Does
TNA feel like this is a roster that they can
go to bat with on AMC with different expectations that
they've had airing on Access TV. Do they think this
creative is the kind of creative that can win over
viewers on a a network where you are you have

(25:01):
double the eyes available to you. And I think that's
going to be what I'm looking for over the next
few months is how does the roster take shape? How
does the creative You know they're going to have some downtime.
I think in December with the holidays and stuff. Usually
TNA kind of they don't go dark but they put
on some recap shows and things like that, so not

(25:22):
a lot of first run programming during that time.

Speaker 5 (25:24):
We may not be.

Speaker 4 (25:25):
Able to get a signal of creatively where they intend
to be come January fifteenth. But those are the things
I'm going to be kind of looking for, you know,
from a philosophy standpoint of how that changes, if at all,
from how TNA operates now in those areas versus how
they operate once they get on a bigger network.

Speaker 1 (25:46):
Let's pause and formally introduce ourselves in the show, and
then we'll do a little bit more on TNA as
it relates to AWNW and then hoop out of some
other topics, including the Netflix one year anniversarymatch. We see
them Punk defending against bron Breaker. I'm fascinated and intrigued
by this, this announcement. I want to talk to you
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December second, twenty twenty five. I'm Way Keller, host so
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(26:50):
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Parks is the longtime face of the Wrestling Night in

(27:56):
America brand. Pat McNeil and Gregg started and now it's
been not Brandon mclair and Greg. Greg. You are also,
as you know, I'm not telling you anything, a long
time progressing towards newsletter columnist and wow.

Speaker 5 (28:07):
I'm shocked to find that out.

Speaker 1 (28:09):
Yes, aporch dot com columnist, you've got columns once a
week on the website that are free and then longer
future length columns in the newsletter which are VIP exclusive.
And today you wrote about TNA and the AMC deal,
so if people can check out what you plucked from
that news to write about in your h in your
column on the website. So Greg, great to have you

(28:30):
on the flag ship here as always, always treat to
have you on.

Speaker 4 (28:33):
Yeah, definitely fun to be here, and it's it's great
to you know, I love talking about AW and WWE,
and occasionally when I'm on the flagship we'll spend maybe
five minutes on TNA, so it is good to be
able to talk a little bit more about it. I
watch it every week, so I do stay up to
date on it. And fortuitous timing, I guess that I'm
here to talk about TNA today.

Speaker 1 (28:55):
Yeah, this is this is perfect. It's sometimes just it
works out that way. There'll be something like inn NXT
New Japan that's really big news, and that'll be the
week like Kelly Wallas is co hosting. That's like, all right, yes,
we get to you know, talk talk NXT. Because a
bunch of nxt ruts are showed up on a raid
the night before so yeah, we're so well that you've
kept up on it all right. So yeah, by the way,
if you have questions for the flagship, the email address

(29:16):
is Wade Keller Podcast at gmail dot com. Wade Keller
Podcast at gmail dot com. Send your questions anytime, but
especially Sunday, Monday, and early Tuesday, because that's when we
look for your emails, you know, based on the late stappenings,
and we can include them on the show in our
our email section. Wadekelor Podcast at gmail dot com. Okay, great,

(29:42):
how does this deal affect a e W If you're
Tony con do you look at this and go, yeah, shoulders,
kind of shoulder struggling, whatever, you know, it's there. They
have such a different style of wrestling. They're clearly the
fifth brand of the week. Maybe they'll be I mean,
I guess the competition w and they outdraw Collision, like
that'll be the competition because they're not going to be

(30:03):
Dynamite except maybe on the first week if there's a
bunch of cross promotion with WB and some special stars.
After that, I mean, it's unlikely an AMC they're gonna
be Dynamite, although it'd be interesting to watch they probably
won't be an NXT. They certainly aren't gonna bet Rare SmackDown.
I don't even think that's like on their radar of
something that they should even look forward to as because
it just feels to me unrealistic. That's said, it's a

(30:25):
saturated market and wrestling fans only have so much time.
So if you get a little disenchanted with what AW
is doing and you're an AW viewer, you not choost
being rassmack Down on an NXT. But let's say, just
there's something about those brands that, Yeah, I don't know,
it's the shows are too long, you don't like TKO's
ownership policies, NXT, it's developmental, and I don't want to

(30:48):
feel like I'm just watching someone who's gonna be a
future star. I want to see a company where that
people are treated like stars. A and T and A
can I think provide an outlet for people who just
want to kind of It's like being a fan of
a team that isn't likely to make the playoffs in
a sports league, but you kind of pick them for
their uniforms or a couple of players you like, or

(31:08):
you just want to see a team grow and say
I was there from the beginning. T and A obviously
the legacy brand in wrestling. They're not like the new
upstart kid, but they are on the national scene on
a major network. So if I'm Tony con and I
look at this, I go, Okay, I gotta keep an
eye on this. I'm not gonna panic. But it is
a couple hours of wrestling that's available to a big

(31:29):
chunk of his audience that wasn't available before. And it's
not a WWE brand. Even with the affiliation, it's gonna
feel different. How do you think Tony khnn is feeling
and should feel and might react to this news.

Speaker 4 (31:45):
I think it's very similar to what you said, where
it's like, Okay, you know, I'll keep an eye on it,
But I don't feel like he should feel threatened. I
don't feel like he should hot shot book or anything
like that. I think the first week's ratings, as they
usually are, are going to be the top line, and
then everything after that's probably going to be a little
bit lower. Now, if TNA gets even close to let's say,

(32:10):
even Dynamites ratings on AMC that first Thursday, you might
see WWE smell blood in the water and they say, Okay,
let's see if we can load up our talent on
TNA so that they can beat aid it just for
because that's how they work, you know. It's it's nothing
more than poking the bear or whatever you want to say,

(32:33):
like trying to get under Tony khanskin trying to agitate
AEW because you know, WWE is in that business for
better or worse. And so if I don't, like I said,
I don't expect them to beat Dynamite, but if they
get close, you could see a situation where all of
a sudden, NXT is plugging TNAS show more often just

(32:55):
so that WWE can kind of get it to creep
close to AWE and make Tony Khan a little bit uncomfortable.
I think that would be a win for WWE or
NXT in this relationship. But for Tony Khan, like I
don't I know you mentioned earlier, is Tony kan going
to change the way he operates, is or anything like that.
I think Tony Khan has a very I think Tony

(33:17):
Khan is very confident in his product and the way
he offers it. We've seen that fans and people have
cried from the mountaintops about certain aspects of aw programming,
whether it's the constant reliance on blood and gore, whether
it's the length of the pay per view shows, and
Tony Khan's response has kind of been a shoulder shrug, like,

(33:39):
this is how I present wrestling. That's his view of
how he wants wrestling to be presented. If he was
a fan, that's how he would take in wrestling. And
I don't think TNA getting on AMC is going to
change the way Tony Khan presents wrestling in any way.

Speaker 1 (33:57):
I think that's a really good point. And I have
I think Tony Kahan books for fourteen to twenty eight
year old Tony Kahan, roughly speaking, whatever he loved about wrestling,
and he was a teenager and loved about wrestling into
his twenties. That's the entirety, that's what we're saying. That's
virtually the entirety of his motivation in terms of what

(34:18):
he presents. He is booking for people who he thinks
relate to what he loved about wrestling during his years
on RSPW and writing letters to the Torch that got
published to the newsletter and being a super fan and
that influences him and that's great. I mean that it
has worked well and he brought a lot more to
the table than Dixie Carter did or Jarrett and Jeff

(34:41):
Jarrett did in terms of an idea that was good
for the times and worked. But can he adjust over
time under pressure or does he just lean into what
he knows and what he loves and he's not gonna
it won't feel authentic as a product if he books
something different. I also don't know if he even crosses
his mind to do anything different. I mean, he's laser focused,

(35:01):
hyper focused on the product that he believes in, and I,
like you said, it's sort of a shoulder strug sometimes
when he gets challenged about you know, why did you
do that or when? And it it almost feels like, well,
I don't really need to worry about it. I'm just
gonna do what I love to do. I'm going to
do it passionately and competently, and I'll be good enough
and I hope I do great. I don't think I think.

Speaker 4 (35:25):
I think Tony Kahn would rather draw five hundred thousand
years to dynamite booking shows that he likes as opposed
to drawing seven hundred and fifty thousand viewers, booking a
show that he can't relate to or that that doesn't
appeal to him.

Speaker 1 (35:39):
Yeah, he's not a book author going to the publisher going,
what what is a trending topic for a book? A
genre and a topic history or philosophy, or or gossip
or biography, Like what book do you think I could
write that would sell? That's not him. He's going to
the book publisher going, I know a lot about out lizards,

(36:03):
and I want to write about lizards. Like he's got.
He knows what he wants to promote. He's not in
search of a prosing formula. He has a formula and
he's just looking for an outlet yourix to do it.
So that doesn't mean that there won't be a time
when TNA can offer an undercard AW wrestler more money
than they could in the past to bring them over.
Let's say Ethan Page was still in AW and he

(36:27):
wasn't really getting utilized and he was frustrated by it,
but he had burned a bridge without to be for
some reason. Well, TNA could go, hey, what's aw' is
probably paying you to work. You know, most of these
TV tapings. What you know, two hundred and fifty thousand year.
I'm just throw a number out there. We can get
you three eighty and a push, or we can get
you three hundred and a push, and he might go,

(36:49):
I'm all over it. I don't know if AW has
a lot of those people right now. Maybe five years
ago they did. But that's just something to keep in mind,
like how does it affect AW. Maybe somebody who's disgruntled
on the mid card sees that as a chance to
really show what they can do. It's like a backup
point card in the NBA who says, I'm not a backup.
I think I can thrive as a starter, but I'm

(37:11):
behind a star player and I'm never going to get
those minutes. So now there's another group that has a
salary cap that allows them to go after an AW
mid carter who feels underutilized, pay them a little bit
more to break away and then shine and get more
TV time. And that I think is what And that
doesn't really hurt Aw's business all that much because if
they were being underutilized, they probably weren't going to be utilized.

(37:32):
It's not something we see a lot in aw which
is someone who's middling underneath suddenly got a big push.

Speaker 4 (37:39):
And that's another piece of this that I think is
worth mentioning, is this is good for the wrestlers. I mean,
when you have another company that's getting millions of dollars
in rights fees. Again, it's not aw money, it's not
WWE money, but it is a pretty significant chunk for
TNA given how they operate. You know, they're not out
there running house shows five nights a week. They're not

(38:02):
renting out huge arenas that cost a lot of money.
They don't have a lot of major stars that are
making millions of dollars a year. So they can really
put that thirty million dollars to good use in building
a pretty decent roster. And wrestlers from aw or even
WWE could decide, hey, TNA is now back on the

(38:22):
national radar. Let me see if I can be more
successful there, and then if they are successful there, that
ups their value to aw and WWE. Now these wrestlers
have been on a national platform, whether they came from
AWWW or not. I mean that that stands for the
current t ANDA roster as well. I mean, you are

(38:44):
are Mike Santana and maybe you're looking to get into NXT. Well,
now you're a top star on AMC where double the
amount of viewers have an opportunity to see. That's that's
going to up your value to these companies as well.
So it's not just TNA can all of a sudden
pay more for wrestlers. It's that TNA wrestlers now are

(39:06):
are more visible and that's going to do them well
when it comes time to negotiating their next contract.

Speaker 1 (39:11):
That's a great point. Yeah, you build your value in
front of roughly twice the audience and frankly, even if
it's twice the clearances. AMC is just a bigger network
that can help in theory and practically speaking, can help
uh at TNA grow more because they just are a
name brand channel.

Speaker 5 (39:29):
They're like, it's a prestige network.

Speaker 1 (39:31):
It is, yeah, exactly. Yeah. It was interesting like when
when w W want to or when a TNA went
to Pop TV when it's or Who's Who's on Pop TV?
That was TNA, right, yes, yeah, yeah, because uh because
when when w went to Spike and TNA went to
Pop and it was the old National Network and they

(39:51):
changed their name from the National Network, to the National Network,
to then Pop TV. They tried to fit the brand
of TNA into the other programming, like we are the
channel for this, and on Spike TV, we're edgy, We're
we're we're for guys. We're the channel for twenty something guys.
We're gonna a little more edgy and less conservative than
the USA Network. So I'm curious with TNA going AMC

(40:15):
if there is gonna be some input going we want
to actually have a veneer of highbrow to what we do.
You know, like, I don't even know.

Speaker 5 (40:26):
If you good luck with the TNA name, then I.

Speaker 1 (40:29):
Know, I know that's the thing I hate. I ragged
on them for the TNA name. I said it would
hold them back. You know, they they had a nostalgia
for it. They brought it back, their fan base liked it.
It's still rough, it's still it's still you know, like
your question the judgment of somebody who would who would

(40:49):
choose to brand themselves that? But so yeah, I guess
just from a feeding into the like you say, the
kind of the prestige network that AMC wants to be
seen as, and it you know, frankly, it's what cost
I mean, it's kind of what cost WW their existence,
is the T and T people turning their nose up
at WW and kind of looking for an excuse to

(41:09):
get rid of I mean, that was a contributing factor
to the show being canceled, as they were just looking
for a reason to canceled that stam embarrassment on their
network because they wanted to be the high pro drama network.
But they also, you know, wanted the viewership that TBS
had because there was sort of an inner culture inter
inner corporate culture rivalry. So they both wanted the viewership,
but once they could get rid of it, they were

(41:30):
happy to do so once the ratings went down enough
that it was more trouble than it was worth. So
with aMCI, we'll see, and we've got another month and
a half to speculate and talk and learn more about
they what they have in mind.

Speaker 6 (41:47):
I'm Kelly Wells, host of PWT Talks NXT, the longest
running NXT podcast Anywhere. Join me along with Nate Lindberg,
Bruce Lee, Hazelwood, and special guests live every Tuesday night,
just minutes after NXT, where we cover the good, the bad,
and the ugly on the way to becoming a star
in WWE.

Speaker 5 (42:05):
Check us out.

Speaker 6 (42:06):
Live on YouTube or stream later wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 1 (42:17):
He's Santana the right guy to build round Greg.

Speaker 4 (42:21):
I think he's the best choice now that Joe Hendry
is officially signed with n XT. I saw it just recently.
He popped up on the NXT roster page.

Speaker 5 (42:29):
I think Santana is.

Speaker 4 (42:33):
And you can say, well, that's due to not great
roster depth at the top of TNA, But I do
think he is a guy who is as well rounded
a character as anyone TNA has. They've spent a lot
of time on video packages in vignettes for him when
he was on his way up the card, and I
think that he is a relatable character and story to

(42:57):
the fans watching, And so I would of the people
if we're looking at solely TNA's roster as it stands today,
and we're not picking anyone from outside to come in
and represent TNA as it moves to AMC, I think
Santana is a really good guy to do that. I mean,
you know, Nick Nemath is there, he's not there. I

(43:17):
don't think he's there full time. He may have some
some limited dates.

Speaker 5 (43:21):
I don't.

Speaker 4 (43:22):
I don't recall what his contract is, but he's not
certainly on on TNA programming every week. You know, he
has the recognition from WWE that may appeal h and
has historically appealed to networks. They want wrestlers who have
been national stars before, and certainly Nick Nemath fits that.

(43:44):
Mike Santana doesn't. I mean, he's he's really breaking out
on his own. You know, he spent some time in
AEW before, He's been in TNA before, but never at
the level that he is now. And so that's I
think the best option they have right now.

Speaker 5 (44:00):
And I would go full throttle with.

Speaker 1 (44:02):
Him, Yeah, I would. I would take Santana over Joe
Henry also, even if Joe Henry was available, unless Joe
Henry really fit exactly like you felt, you could just
build your brand around his flavor. And I see him
as a side plate, that is is you tune in

(44:23):
to see. But if he's your world champion, especially with
what happened with Randy Orton, and I know he was like, oh,
this was great, It's like no, it's you can't really
can't take you seriously anymore. I mean you're like you're
you're you're thrilled to just be on WrestleMania. I don't
want that guy to be the centerpiece of my company.
Then you can say, well, that doesn't hang around much
like people just care are they entertain They don't think
about what happened in the past. You can say that
about Sea. I'm punkin seen a just eviscerating him over

(44:46):
Saudi Raby and the microphone and being a sellout and
mocking him, and then Punk's just fine. Maybe he's damaged,
we don't know, but he's still he's certainly just fine
in terms of crowd chance. That said, there's still something
about Henry where, even if he were available, I choose Santanna.
I think there's just a checklist of reasons that he
has earned that statue, which made it all the more

(45:07):
disappointing that they booked Kazarian to be the world champion.
Under those circumstances, It'd be like having Elton Prince cash
in on Cody, like right after he finished his journey.
I'm like, I'm a fan of what Kazarian has brought
in terms of energy and enjoy a performance, and he's
like the mayor of a small town when he's in TNA,
he's just there's a spring at his stay.

Speaker 4 (45:26):
He's been a great heel to be honest with you,
but he's not the guy that I don't know, like,
I just I really don't see him at this level,
at this time in his career to be the main
event guy. And obviously TNA management thinks with his performances
lately that you know, they think differently. I think his

(45:47):
performances have been really good for like upper mid card,
but certainly not the guy that should take down your
top babies. And you know, I think they did this
with Henry too. I think either he won the title
and lost it very quick or they just really stretched
out his title run. I can't remember which it was.
But it's almost like they're averse to giving the fans
what they want when it comes to top baby faces.

Speaker 1 (46:08):
And with with the Kazarian decisions, like sometimes it's it's
like a spark off the bench in the NBA or
an enforcer player in the NHL, Like he's not the
guy who's gonna get the most minutes, but you value
him and the crowd loves him. Oh here he's coming
and he's gonna shake things up. He's gonna change the
pace of the game, or he's gonna rough up that star,
that that that thug on the other team with a

(46:29):
hard check, and like, you want those role players, but
you don't want them on your first line or on
your starting lineup getting the majority of the minutes. And
that's that's I think the reaction to Kazarian. The mistake
that management made with that move is it extinguished the
momentum with Santana or or sent a meta message of
we're not really committed to him when people were just
waiting for that moment to go on a journey with

(46:51):
him as a centerpiece. So it's a it's a bit
of a red red flag in terms of that decision
even being made. And that's not a knock on Kazarian.
It just says that's that's not the role for him.
Because people who watched him in aw you shoul watch
him in TNA. I mean, he's delightful compared to who
he was in a w It's fun seeing someone have
that much fun. But he is the mayor of a
very small town who likes being a big vish in

(47:13):
a small pond, you know, doing whatever. You know. However,
you would do. I don't even know what you compare
his Do you have someoney you compare him to in
the past in terms of what kind of what kind
of role heel role he's playing.

Speaker 5 (47:28):
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (47:28):
I like, I find fascinating his his interplay with Tom
hannefan on commentary. He's very good at needling Tom. So
he's on commentary like every other week during a match.
It is because he just he's so entertaining in that
heel role of just kind of almost like a miz
like character.

Speaker 5 (47:45):
I guess it is maybe what I would say.

Speaker 4 (47:47):
And and so he's just very full of himself and
that sort of thing, and he's really entertaining on guest commentary.
But again, like it's it's Frankie Kazarian. We've kind of
seen what he has to offer. And you know, maybe
for the TNA fan base that is still watching, and
it's probably a long term TNA fan base, and they

(48:08):
have really great feelings about Frankiekazarian, and maybe it's just
kind of appealing to a very small base of fans
by doing this, But I just it makes me question,
certainly the booking decisions once they get to a wider audience,
and just you know, I think Santana will win the
belt back, but it doesn't, I don't know, It doesn't

(48:30):
make me feel good about creative heading into this really
big opportunity.

Speaker 1 (48:35):
Let's two other quick topics and we'll switch off of
this EX division. How big of a deal should TNA
make the X Division when they, you know, in theory
double or more than double their weekly viewership and are
trying to make a good first impression on people who
have access to them again after not having access to
them for years at least not easily. Is the X

(48:55):
Division part of their branding that they should really lean
in on.

Speaker 5 (48:59):
I think it's I had the talent for it. They should.

Speaker 4 (49:01):
I just don't, you know, a bit critical of the
depth on the Knockouts Division.

Speaker 5 (49:05):
I feel the same way about the X Division.

Speaker 4 (49:07):
You've got Leon Slater, who I think could be a
huge star, and if I was TNA, he would probably
be the number two guy I would build around after
Mike Santana. And he's getting a lot of love from
n XT too, which may which may make t AND
a hesitant to build too much around him because he
n x T might swoop in and take him at
some point. But he's got a great youthful exuberance about him.

(49:30):
I think he's twenty one years old, so he's someone
that they can build around. He's young, he is athletic,
he is really when you think of the X Division traditionally,
he is an embodiment of that of what the X
Division is. The problem is, there's not a lot of
other guys like him in TNA. You know, you could
take the Mustafa Ali's and guys like that. Who you know,

(49:52):
Ali's in TNA, but he's been not really part of
the X Division. He's kind of been above and beyond that.
But if you really wanted to build a on the
EX Division, maybe you take Ali and maybe you make
them a major player in that division. You know, there's
been some people in and out who have done well,
and el Cedric Alexander's been a part of it for
a while now, but he's one of whose contract is
up soon and there's rumblings that he might end up

(50:14):
going to AW as part of the Hurt syndicate. So
I think if you want to build the X Division,
you've got the money to do so now, and you
could take some young stars, athletic stars from the independence
and try to give them a name on national television
through the X division. But I just don't see what

(50:36):
they have right now being something you could build around
in terms of a division.

Speaker 1 (50:41):
And then you look, well, is there a thriving indie
scene with a few wrestlers who are being underutilized, who
would be hungry and come relatively cheap but would be
affordable on the new budget also to bring somebody in
for you know, flights and hotel who doesn't have any
name value. Now, like, is there a niche out there?
Do you do? You start networking to a bunch of
indie promoters and do what Jerry jarretton when you launched TNA,

(51:01):
which is you know, talked to Bill Barns and some
other people say, Hey, AJ Styles, this guy, he's going
to be a star. I remember talking to Jerry Jarrett
in the lead up to TNA launching. He's like, AJ Styles,
he's gonna be He's gonna be one of the guys
who build around. He also was going to buld around
David Young and that didn't work out well.

Speaker 4 (51:16):
But hey, when you're betting five hundred in the wrestling business,
that's not too bad.

Speaker 1 (51:21):
That's true. Yes, So do you call around to your
network of indie stars in the United States and Canada
and go, We got some money to spend on prospects
that we just didn't have before, you know, we needed.
We just didn't have a lot of depth. We didn't
have a budget for depth for unknowns. We want to
we want to roll the dice on some people, you know,

(51:41):
we want some late first round, second round picks that
we think can turn into something basically, or people who've
been off the radar. If I'm Tommy Dreamer, i am
networking like mad or whoever. You know, put someone in
charge of making a much of phone calls, get some footage,
and say let's make a splash in that on that
first show, because there should be something to grab people
on that first show and having a you know, they've

(52:05):
done Future Stars tournaments before, but like really put a
production team in charge of saying, here's eight indie stars
and just be open about it. We just like say,
we have a bigger budget. We spent the last six
weeks scouring the indie scene, and we want it's sort
of an American Idol type thing. We want to come
up with the next big X Division star and we
don't know what we're in for. We genuinely don't. We're

(52:27):
gonna watch and and of course don't go all metas
say we want to see who wins. We're going to
see who's good enough to come out on top in
this you know, four to six week tournament, and and
we'll you know, give contracts to the people who impress us,
the winner and anyone else who does really well. Like
you could do something like that and make the X
division about, hey, we're gonna you get to be at
the ground floor of seeing a new star made and

(52:48):
have crowd interaction, audience interaction, social media interaction to kind
of go, hey, here's what we'd like about this guy.
Just make it a promotion for the people where they
feel like they're involved and and that you're going to
see some fresh face on a new journey. TNA has
an opportunity like that to think outside the box a
little bit and not just keep pushing Eric Young doing
the same thing. And he's fun but like Instantino having

(53:09):
funny lines, and then we're gonna get time to the
Hardy's to do whatever their latest kooky idea is. That
that kind of gets a buzz you have a way
to kind of say we actually have the platform and
money now to create some new stars, and you're not
seeing a lot of that in aw to be frank
right now. I mean they're they got the same roster
they ever had.

Speaker 4 (53:23):
Yeah, and I've been critical of Tommy Dreamer and the
creative but I do think he is a guy who
is tuned into the independence to a certain degree. I
mean he you know, he was in developmental helping to
run OVW at one time for WWE, So I think
he has the contacts. He's certainly been in the business
long enough, He's been at indie shows before, and so

(53:46):
I think there are worse people to have doing that
scouring the country and trying to make those contacts. I
think Dreamer could be valuable in that role. So I
would agree there. I mean, you know, the trouble is
with the you know, it's not a thriving indie scene.
Plus you've got AWNWWE gobbling up all these wrestlers, whether
it's NXT, whether it's evolved now, whether it's the WWEID contracts.

(54:12):
There are just even if the indies were thriving, your
choices would be you know, your pool of candidates would
be smaller because of how WWE and AW operating. You
take into account now that the indies aren't exactly thriving
and WW and AW are hoarding some of the biggest
talents out there, that becomes more problematic.

Speaker 1 (54:33):
It means it's more work to find that diamond of
the rough, that gem out there who's falling off the radar.
I mean w's prioritizing big college athletes. They're prioritizing people
that they scout and built from the ground up. AW
is not really doing anything, you know, I mean to
bring in new up and coming talent. I mean they
might use some local guy and have a job out
or something, or security guy take a bump for somebody.

(54:55):
But you don't sense that there's any I don't sense
that there's like this feeling of, yeah, we need discover
any scenes. So they're no.

Speaker 4 (55:01):
But their roster is such that if AW didn't exist,
a lot of those people on their roster would be
available for TNA. I mean, they just have so many
people under contract, some that they're not even using. And
that takes away and like you said, it's not impossible,
it can be done. You can find those diamonds in
the rough. It just is a more difficult environment today
than it would have been fifteen years ago.

Speaker 1 (55:23):
My final TENA topic is just knockouts. You mentioned they're
kind of in a down period. It was known to
have a arguably the strongest women's division for a while.
What has happened and who still? Would you say to
somebody who goes, well, I didn't have access to TNA,
but I'm a little disgruntled with some of the shows
I've been watching. I'm gonna give this company a shot,

(55:45):
but I like women's wrestling. Who what is the best
hope for this division to capture my interest?

Speaker 2 (55:51):
Who?

Speaker 1 (55:51):
Who is the best hope? So who if they lost?
And then who do they have that you're that you
think would would be attracted to a fan of women's
wrestling is looking to kind of start fresh.

Speaker 4 (56:00):
Yeah, I mean the same thing that's happened to any
promotion since AW and WWE got big, and that's that
you know, they've lost wrestlers. I mean, Dianna Pirazzo is
a big part of really the last I won't call
it a renaissance, but the last time that the TNA
knockouts were in a real prominent position and she goes
to AW and she's hardly ever seen anymore. Jordan Grace

(56:22):
has been a top star in TNA for for years,
multiple time TNA Knockouts Champion. She's now on NXT. The
Knockouts Champion is Colonnie Jordan of NXT. So this is
where maybe NXT's relationship with TNA can help, because when
you have a division that's kind of in the dol
drums as the Knockouts are, you can got to mask
that a little bit by having n XT talent supplement that.

(56:48):
So you know, you've got Colonie Jordan, You've got Leeying Lee,
who I like she was a part of NXT, was
let go signed with TNA. She just I think got
an opportunity at a at the Tea and a Knockouts Championship,
just recently won a match for that. And then you've
got you know Cassie Lee, and you know her tag

(57:11):
team partner, which is Jesse McKay, the former Iconics. In
in TNA or in WWE, they were kind of entertaining
as a lower card tag team. In WWE, they're the
Knockouts World Tag Team Champions right now. Indy Hartwell was
an endearing personality in NXT, but she wasn't a great
in ring talent.

Speaker 5 (57:29):
She's there.

Speaker 4 (57:31):
I'm a huge fan of Killer Kelly, but she's her
contract is coming due, I believe, and she has not
really been the focus lately. Masha Slamovich has been embroiled
in some controversy. She's maybe Belle de Belle, the best
knockout they have outside of Tessa Blanchard, but the controversy
that's that's followed Masha Slamovich has meant that she's not
been booked much lately. Tessa Blanchard has her own controversy

(57:54):
that you know, has followed her everywhere, so people are
gonna be turned off by that. So there's some real
bag from even the wrestlers who are the best in
ring performers in that division. That's going to turn some
people off. And then you have some some lower card
people like Mara Sade who was in NXT as Jakara Jackson,

(58:14):
you know, lower card wrestler there being given more of
an opportunity in TNA, so that's nice to see. And
they've got some new wrestlers from the indies, Mila Grace,
Mila Moore, You've got m Y Elegance part of the
Elegance brand there and some others that they're just introducing now.
So there is an opportunity for upward mobility for some

(58:34):
of these newer wrestlers. But there's just it's not a
top heavy division in terms of stars at the top,
and the stars that are at the top have some
real baggage with them.

Speaker 1 (58:46):
If you missed it earlier, just a reminder, we're running
our second VIP sale of the year. We don't do
these often, take advantage of it now. It is a
limited time offer. Take nine dollars off a VIP subscription
a one month, three month, or one year sub It
brings the one month sub down to just three dollars
in nine cents. The coupon code is n o V
twenty twenty five as in November n o V twenty

(59:06):
twenty five, and that takes nine dollars off. When you
check out on our sign up form pw Torch dot
com slash Go v IP gives you full details on
membership benefits and links to our sign up form. All right,
very good. Let's pivot to the Netflix at when your
anniversary show coming up next month, and we have c

(59:28):
Himpunk defending against bron Breaker last night. Greg, My critique
of the bron Breaker promo was not that it wasn't
good or very good, but that they told us how
great it was. Bron Breaker thought it was a mic
drop moment, Aha, Lotti dah, I just gave you that promo, Punk,
you thought I should deliver. And I know he's a
heal and he's supposed to be breakingdocious, but it felt

(59:48):
kind of meta, like all you people who didn't think
bron could do this look, and then he had Logan
Paul with what felt like a very preordained orchestrated damn
throwing the mic in the air moment and Paul Hayman
nodding approvingly. I sort of felt like I was I
was ganged up on to to feel as a viewer
that I had just witnessed something I didn't, and it

(01:00:10):
made me a little bitter towards what would have been
a promo where I said, Wow, he's come a long way.
There's that's promise. But I was in I thought that
that they tried to treat that as his Austin three
sixteen moment, and it was like, no, it in my opinion,
It was not that good, but there's something there to
build on for sure. This match is high profile. I
noticed last week going into Surcrivor series ESPN's graphics during

(01:00:30):
NBA Games, it was bron Breaker, Bronson Read and Paul
Hayman on the graphics. I didn't see a largeness sample
to know if they were rotating, but that was one
of them, and that says they want to get bron
Breaker's face and name out there and and start giving
the impression he is a future face or a current
face of the brand. Seampunk's obviously a super well known name,

(01:00:53):
current world champion, wasn't necessarily the baked in plan, you know,
because of seth injury. But Greg, I'm curious what you
think about the promo last night on Raw in the
Path that they clearly are letting everybody. You know, they're
flagging this guy. He is our you know, mister future WrestleMania.
Do you expect him to shine and perhaps win the

(01:01:14):
title on that Big Money Arniversary show on Netflix?

Speaker 5 (01:01:17):
As for the promo, I thought it was good.

Speaker 4 (01:01:20):
I thought as you were watching it and as Breaker
was ratcheting up the emotion in it, you could tell
that this was going to be something that WWE was
going to want to build around. This promo was their
way of kind of introducing bron Breaker world title challenger

(01:01:40):
to the world. We've seen bron Breaker Upper mid Carter,
bron Breaker part of a faction, but this was bron
Breaker main eventor and.

Speaker 1 (01:01:50):
Very few high profile singles matches.

Speaker 5 (01:01:52):
Great, right, So the.

Speaker 4 (01:01:54):
Promo had some flaws, but I think overall, when you
cancel out of the noise of WWE and the announcers
trying to make it a big deal, when you take
it in a vacuum, I thought it was a pretty
effective promo.

Speaker 5 (01:02:07):
Overall. I absolutely think he.

Speaker 4 (01:02:10):
Can win the world title over Sampunk. I would not
say that that's out of the realm of possibility, not
only because of the evidence you mentioned that they are
very serious about making bron Breaker a big star, but
I think they do want to freshen things up a
little bit, and Breaker would be fresh as a top

(01:02:31):
star as a champion, and it would give some clout
to this group that without seth Rollins is a little
bit rudderless. I think Logan Paul doesn't exactly fill that
seth Rawlins void. In fact, Logan Paul feels kind of
like an outsider attached to this group because they need
another person more so than he feels like a natural

(01:02:54):
fit with bron Breaker and Bronson Reed and Paul Hayman.
So if WWE sees that and they see that this
main event level group is lacking something, you can see
the argument for making braun Breaker champion to give this
group a little bit extra oomph.

Speaker 1 (01:03:10):
If braun Breaker beats sea On Punk for the world title,
what does that? What does that tell you about the
direction that they're going with that world title with broun Breaker,
who ares potential challengers? What seems in line for WrestleMania,
Like do you just think, oh, that's when brock Lesner
gets sick of Paul Hayman and bron Breaker and turns babyface,

(01:03:35):
which would be very daring, Or no, that's when braun
Breaker says, wait, Paul, you're favoring brock Lesner. He plowed
through John Cena. I'm gonna plow through him. Like do
they just rush to that because Brock's time is limited?
And I think they I think they see Lesner as
the key moment that christens braun Breaker as the new guy.

(01:03:57):
Of course, there's a risk he becomes the Roman range
John Senior shoving him down throat. You know, we get it,
we like him, but not that much and not this soon.
Or do you just do a Seth rematch? You do
something with H with Seth and Breaker because of the
history there, and it was weird with Breaker and talked
about him in the promo last night on Raw too,
So yeah, what like, where do you think they go
from there? If Breaker does win, play that scenario out.

Speaker 4 (01:04:18):
I think this is one of the more intriguing aspects
of a potential bron Breaker win is just the timing
of it, because now you're in January with a bron
Breaker win and you are steamrolling toward WrestleMania.

Speaker 5 (01:04:30):
So do you.

Speaker 4 (01:04:31):
Really go into WrestleMania with bron Breaker, someone as unproven
as him, as a top star as one of your champions.
Now two nights of WrestleMania, you've got multiple championships. You
don't even have to main event WrestleMania with bron Breaker.
You can kind of get away with maybe doing a
women's title on one night and maybe doing you know,

(01:04:53):
the other championship on another night. But yeah, I mean
Breaker being champion in January heading toward a big event
like the Royal Rumble, heading toward a big event like
WrestleMania is interesting timing. And I think you're right that
Lesner ultimately is going to be kind of the final

(01:05:14):
boss that bron Breaker needs to be in order to
establish himself permanently as the guy or the champion, or
however you want to phrase it.

Speaker 5 (01:05:26):
I don't know when that happens.

Speaker 4 (01:05:27):
I don't know if that's a WrestleMania match that they
try to do before or after a bron Breaker Babyface turn.
I don't know if that's further down the line, but
certainly the timing of this match and the potential victory
for bron Breaker is really one of the most interesting
aspects of this. You know, if he had won, say

(01:05:47):
in June, okay, you know you've got some lesser pay
per views coming up where the champion you can get
away with having an untested champion for those pay per views,
but for the ones coming up in early twenty twenty six,
it's you know, that's that's a big load to carry

(01:06:08):
for Broun Breaker.

Speaker 1 (01:06:09):
Do you think bron Breaker a year and a half
from now is going to be a success story.

Speaker 5 (01:06:15):
Yes, yeah, yeah, I do. I do.

Speaker 4 (01:06:18):
I think. I know there were some questions with him,
you know, the longer he was in NXT. I think
there's a lot of excitement early on, but the longer
he was in XT, the more questions were raised about
his potential long term drawing power as a top guy
on the main roster. But I think he has really

(01:06:38):
proven even in some subtleties, like there's been some backstage
interactions that he's had with with Paul Hayman and Bronson
Reid that showed a level of subtlety in his acting
that I didn't really know was there, and that's going
to benefit him at the top of the card as well.
So I think his in ring, he's got his really
key moves down that are going to draw the fans,

(01:07:00):
you know, his his running tackle outside the ring and
things like that. He's got those signature moves down, and
that's really, unfortunately, what a lot of being a main
vendor is about in WWE. It's it's getting those signature
moves down, the ones that pop the live audience, and
he has that, and he's I think improved on the

(01:07:20):
main roster from where he was in NXT to where
I think he is a viable main eventor from an
inn ring standpoint as.

Speaker 1 (01:07:27):
Well, If CM Punk beats bron Breaker, what does that
say about where there was seampunk and what comes next
for him? Let's play that scenarreil great well.

Speaker 4 (01:07:37):
A lot of it depends on the how right, Like
does he beat bron Breaker in the middle of the
ring clean?

Speaker 1 (01:07:41):
One?

Speaker 5 (01:07:41):
Two three?

Speaker 4 (01:07:42):
We know that WWE Booking can throw us some curveballs
and would more than likely give bron Breaker an out.
I don't think they'll beat him clean in the middle
of the ring against Cmpunk could transition Breaker to a
new feud or transition Punk to a new feud. But
you know, Punk is the guy on the Raw brand

(01:08:04):
with Seth Rollins out, who WWE can really count on
heading into WrestleMania, heading into the Royal Rumble, heading into
all those major pay per views that they've got coming
up that are really important to the company. And I
think Punk is a guy that they can really trust.
You know, it's hard to believe that we're saying that
about CM Punk after some of the things that went

(01:08:24):
on in AEW but I think he's really gained the
trust of Triple H and the WWE roster, and I
think he's the safe choice at this point in terms
of the champion, who you know is going to draw
at a certain level. He's going to sell merchandise for you,
He's going to pack fans in. He's an interesting character.

(01:08:46):
His in ring has cycled down a little bit, but
given his age and injuries, I don't think that's a
big surprise. But yeah, I think he would be somebody
that WWE would be comfortable with going into Wrestleman's season
as champion.

Speaker 1 (01:09:05):
Where where do you see Cody Roads in the landscape
right now? Clearly there's energy with Paul Hayman's influence uh
and earned on camera and off to be pushing brown
Breaker as the next big thing, uh Logan Paul top
crossover star. They're obviously paying a lot of money and

(01:09:26):
believe they have a big time star power. With Roman
reigns in brock Lessner also earned, that's a lot and
then you got Siam Punk in the mix also as
the world champion. Is Cody just perpetually getting lost in
the mix or does he get elevated? Does he benefit
from Roman reigns across you know saying we're never gonna

(01:09:48):
team again, they team together, never gonna team again. Is
there a rub that that sort of legitimizes Cody in
a way that that maybe still needs to be done
for somebody who was kind of mid card for a
while and and did it, hasn't had the type of
sustained centerpiece solo star push that Steve Boston got for
a little while, scene it got for a long time,

(01:10:09):
and Rains got for a long time, like where Where's
where is Cody in this? In this busy landscape?

Speaker 4 (01:10:16):
I think at the at one time he was pretty
clearly the number one star babyface. I'm not sure I
can say that about him now, and I don't think
it has anything to do with his performance. I think
a big part of it is he hasn't had the
opponents that are lifting him up to that level. I think,

(01:10:36):
you know, when he was fighting Roman Reigns, obviously with
Rains's heel persona being part of the apex of the
Bloodline storyline that caused Cody Rose to rise as a
baby face, and all of a sudden he was the
Babyface Savior who was finally going to end Roman Reigns's
title reign after three years or whatever. It was, And
the problem is, once you're at the mountaintop and you

(01:10:57):
slay the dragon, every everybody else after that is going
to seem lesser. Like you know, it's Drew McIntyre is great,
but he's not Roman Reigns. Alistair Black was an interesting opponent.
I thought they could have gotten maybe a little bit
more out of that than just a one off SmackDown match,
And who knows, maybe they will, but I thought he

(01:11:18):
might be an interesting opponent for Cody rhoadse not someone
you're gonna mate it in a pay per view with,
but I think that would have creatively been something that
would be up Cody Rozally would be would open some
different doors for him. But you know, he's he's kind
of the constant in terms of a babyface. I think
he is as reliable as I talked about see him

(01:11:40):
punk being Cody Roads is even more so. I mean,
he is the ultimate company man. In some ways, he's
the new John Cena. He's willing to do all the media,
he's willing to make all the towns in the same
way that John Cena did, and he's going to do
it all with a smile on his face. And so
I think there is value in that, and his position
might ebb and flow. He might be the number one
babyface sometimes, he might be the number one a babyface sometimes,

(01:12:03):
but I certainly don't think he's any threat to fall
a lot further down the card than that.

Speaker 1 (01:12:12):
Anytime you're watching WWE Raw or SmackDown or aw Dynamite
in particular, send us an email if you've got thoughts
on the show or a topic you want us to
address or a question for us. Wadekeller Podcast at pwtorch
dot com. Wadkeller Podcast at pewtorch dot com. If there's
anything else going on in pro wrestling that you want
us to address on our main podcast during our mailbank segments,

(01:12:34):
that same email applies Wadekeller Podcast at pwtorch dot com.
We invite that interaction. Let us know what you think
of what we're saying, and let us know what you
want us to talk about and ask us specific questions.
Wadekeller Podcast at pw torch dot com. On the women's side,
coming out of Survivor series, we have Alexa Bliss in

(01:12:57):
a big role with Charlotte, and we have lived More
with a big role in the judgment day, we have
legacy stars like Becky and Charlotte in big time in
the mix, and now Bailey kind of getting involved. There's
so many moving parts, and then you have a year
ago top prospects Tiffany Stratton, Jade Cargill, even Bianca Blair.

(01:13:19):
I guess she goes back a little further than that,
who aren't centered, like aren't front center right now. And
then you got io Sky getting a push with her
with with her rivals with Oscar and Kyrie saying there's
a lot going on in the women's division right now,
but kind of like along the lines with Cody, I
kind of wish it felt like it was Rhea Ripley's
world and everyone lives on a like they're trying to

(01:13:41):
take her spot. Like I think there's something about having
somebody who you just designate as a top star and
everyone's trying to take their spot. And it's tough when
you have three women's divisions counting n XT but two
main roster ones and so many talented women who deserve
in our vying for TV time. The legacy star or
so you want to get everything you can out of
them before they retire, and the up and comers who

(01:14:04):
you don't want to get to find down, like the
Tippany Stratton types. Tell me what you what you think
of where they are, Especially with an eye on what
happened at Survivor Series and last night on Raw.

Speaker 4 (01:14:15):
It's interesting that the women's tag team division is more
vibrant than the men's right now. And that's not something
that I expected to be sitting here saying.

Speaker 5 (01:14:26):
You know, a year or so ago.

Speaker 4 (01:14:28):
But when you look at all the teams that gathered
at the end of Raw, certainly it's a stronger batch,
a deeper batch than I think what we have even
in the men's side right now. So that's something to
watch because you know, I think, I don't know if
they're doing that just to kind of break people up
and create rivalries in the singles division, or if there's

(01:14:49):
a real momentum toward doing something with as many women
as possible and by doing by strengthening the tag division,
you're doing that. I think there is value into what
you're talking about with Rhea Ripley and building around her
as the centerpiece of the division. But I also don't
fault them for wanting to build as many others up

(01:15:10):
as possible. I think there's value in that as well,
and give TV time to those who earned it, give
pushes to those who've earned it. And right now there
are a lot of women in the women's division, especially
on Raw as we're seeing that have earned that time.
You know, Oscar Bailey, Becky Lynch, Kyrie Saying Live, Morgan, Lyra, Valkyria.

(01:15:31):
You look at nat Italian Maxine Dupre. They're training video
that was shown on Raw last night. Nikki Bella is
a Hall of Famer, so she's going to get time
as long as she wants to be around Roquel Rodriguez.

Speaker 5 (01:15:42):
I'm just like literally.

Speaker 4 (01:15:44):
Going down the list of the women's division roster, and
every one of them is someone who has been getting
a lot of TV time and who's frankly been earning it.

Speaker 1 (01:15:53):
So Libra had her best night, I thought on the
mics playing off of Bailey last night.

Speaker 4 (01:15:57):
Yeah, so it's like, Okay, you know, I understand the
desire to make Ria Ripley the star, but I also think, man, like,
these women have all earned TV time and they're all
doing a great job, Like I feel like they should
be getting that TV time and in some ways being
seen at or near equal footing to Rhea Ripley.

Speaker 1 (01:16:19):
I would defend saying, I mean you built the case like, hey,
it just should be an unsomveled there's so much talent.
I think you can like eat your k can have
it too. I think you can have give TV time
to all those women and treat them as big deals,
but still have that person who just everybody acknowledges is
the class of the division at the moment. And because

(01:16:40):
then it becomes.

Speaker 4 (01:16:41):
That takes a little bit more nuanced in booking than
we've seen WW be able to pull off in the
recent months.

Speaker 1 (01:16:46):
Oh and you go back to the Netflix premiere and
I was like, okay, this show should be about Hey,
those of you who are tuning in, who having them
watching us for a while. Guess what we got Rhea Ripley.
And they should have just i mean, not made the
whole show around her, but made it more about her
and less about the Rock, condescending Cody or patronizing Cody, roads,
less about oh look, here's Triple h, here's celebrities. It
was just this, this celebrity fest, and it wasn't about

(01:17:11):
what pro wrestling fans care about. Thus the big first
rating and a big drop off afterwards, they'd find down
a bunch of people like Gunther and Rhea who they
could have given more of a rub to. Even Cody,
you know, I think got diminished even in how he's used.
So my thinking is stars draw and good wrestling is
an important ingredient in compelling storylines. To keep people's attention

(01:17:33):
for two to two and a half three hours is vital.
But it's having stars, and that's what Aw's trouble with
in these you know, smaller venues and what they're dealing with.
It's like people, I think people who watch every wrestling
and love wrestling, including Tony Kain type bookers, they lose
track of the fact that to grow you need to
attract people, not to pro wrestling. You need to attract
people to follow stars and their journeys. And Rio was

(01:17:57):
on one and I still think that's where where there's
you know, corve real value. But you want to have
that what you want to have depth and you want
to have people just like itching and scratching to go.
I want to see that wrestler against Rhea Ripley. I
think she can win. That'd be a great match to
being intriguing feud and intriguing promo battle like we feel
about bron and Punk. We got six weeks of promo

(01:18:18):
battles with them with Hayman in the mix. That's gonna
be fun. But it's a it's a it's a it's
a strong division. How do you what do you think
of how Live Morgan performed last night? In fact, let
me read an email because I don't want to forget
to bring up. This email came in from George from Chicago,
and he said, am I the only one who isn't
impressed by Live Morgan's return. I just don't see her

(01:18:40):
as a leader of a faction, nor do I want
her holding the Women's World Championship. The mid card titles
fit her far better. I also don't understand why the
Judgment Day wouldever coward to Live. She's clearly been one
of Triple A's long term pet projects, but for the
life of me, it doesn't add up. Meanwhile, generational talents
like Grea Ripley are being massively underused, yet the spotlight
keeps getting shoved on to Live. Honestly, she feels about

(01:19:02):
as mid as Survivor series did this year. There's so
many incredibly talented women on the roster, Rox and Perez included,
who outshines Live in pretty much every way, and epic
rod built around her ended up being anything but thank
you for reading everyone, go VIP and the Bears, he added,
sorry I had to do that, all right, Hey, I'll

(01:19:22):
take Bears deserve good season.

Speaker 5 (01:19:24):
Yeah, they've earned it this year.

Speaker 1 (01:19:26):
Yeah yeah, yes, yeah, I just have the Vikings beat them.
I think it was week one. We'll just hang our
hand on that the season, pretend nothing else happening, all right, Yeah,
So what do you think of that email?

Speaker 4 (01:19:36):
And in Live I am largely in agreement on Live
Morgan as.

Speaker 5 (01:19:41):
A as a character and wrestler.

Speaker 4 (01:19:44):
I think there are people within WWE, and quite frankly
fans especially online, who like Live Morgan and see a
lot more value in her than I do.

Speaker 5 (01:19:54):
I think she's good.

Speaker 4 (01:19:57):
I think she has I think she's at a level
above where I see her as far as the Judgment
Day and Live Morgan and Judgment Day kind of being
afraid of her in storyline. And I'm connecting some dots
here that WWE hasn't, so you know, the blame lies
at their feet probably for for this. But remember that

(01:20:19):
Live Morgan was the one who manipulated Dominic mysteria away
from Ria Ripley, and so that manipulation and that ability
to do that can be of value to you as
a as a person, as a character. So maybe that's
a part of why the Judgment Day is kind of

(01:20:40):
maybe subconsciously or unconsciously deferring to her because they saw
that play out. Ria Ripley was a part of Judgment Day,
and Live Morgan wedged her way in there, and so
either they respect what she did by doing that, or
they're afraid of her and what she could how she
could manipulate them. I think there's a case to be
made for that being the reason why they've kind of

(01:21:02):
deferred to her in this way.

Speaker 5 (01:21:04):
I was not a fan of.

Speaker 4 (01:21:08):
The slap to Dominic and then the hug to John
Cena and then the turn at Survivor series, you know,
and then she slaps Dominic and hugs him on raw
and I'm like, Okay, maybe that's their thing. I don't know,
you know whatever, I'm not here to judge, but I
thought that was a little overdone. We know that WWE
kind of likes to do the fake turn way too often,
especially when it makes really no sense to do it.

(01:21:29):
I guess they kind of made sense of it on
raw in terms.

Speaker 5 (01:21:33):
Of the slap.

Speaker 4 (01:21:33):
But yeah, I'm not a huge Live Morgan fan.

Speaker 5 (01:21:38):
But I also I credit her.

Speaker 4 (01:21:41):
I think she's done a good job in the role
that she's been given. Do I think there are other
women on the roster who are more deserving of the
push that she's getting.

Speaker 5 (01:21:53):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (01:21:53):
Probably, But I think she's making the effort and she's
putting in the work, And you know, I don't necessarily
fault her personally for where she stands on the card
and how wweviews her. I just don't see her at
the same level that WWE management apparently sees her. To
kind of sum things up, Are you.

Speaker 3 (01:22:14):
A nostalgic wrestling fan? Do you want to hear about
shows you haven't seen in ten, twenty, maybe even thirty years. Well,
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old shows from top to bottom, talk about where the

(01:22:35):
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Speaker 1 (01:23:00):
I think it's a fair characterization that like Paula Veck
really wants her to have TV time, Like she got
lots of chances to kind of figure out after a
lot of awkwardness, who she was gonna be. And I'm
fine with her. I think I think she I'm not
down on her in the way that George is, but

(01:23:20):
I also understand someone from like George looking at her
and going, wait, why with all this other talent so
on her own? I mean, I think live it's kind
of like people want to thought this diminutive Alexa Bliss
would be the one to shake Charlotte out of a rut.
But Alexa is has a type a leadership personality that

(01:23:43):
does come across but it's gentle, but it was effective
with Charlotte the character we saw on TV. She was
the friend Charlotte needed to let loose a little bit,
and with Live I do think. I mean, Finn Balor
is not as much as people want to think. At
one time he was sort of an alpha leader type,

(01:24:04):
you know, Bullet Club era. There's something about him that
sort of changed, and Dom isn't exactly a leader now.
He's really interesting. He's a really fun character. But it's
not like she's big footing somebody else like Raquel. Maybe
could be, but there's something that isn't. So Live just
shows up as a veteran and does her thing. I

(01:24:25):
don't like everything they've done with her in terms of
in some things you mentioned either I didn't love, but
I don't know. I thought last night she carried herself
with a confidence that made me believe that she's kind
of the vocal leader of that group, and everybody would
be kind of not hanging on every word, but cognizant
of her, of her approval and wanting it. So it's interesting,

(01:24:50):
you know, I'm curious how I feel about this in
three weeks if they keep pushing her to this degree.
And I'm also curious, like with the dynamic with Roxanne
present Lived, that different people have different reads on it.
You know, it's a call back to when Roxanne first
showed up, but then Live got injured, so everything got
kind of sidelined. But Roxanne, to me, was certainly worried
about Live and then seemed to relax more as the

(01:25:13):
interactions continued. What did you expect and what did you
make of that?

Speaker 5 (01:25:18):
Well, yeah, I think.

Speaker 4 (01:25:20):
Clearly we're coming to a head at some point. Like
I guess, I was surprised that they didn't do something
right away with those two, knowing that they've been pushing
Roxanne Perez and Dominic and you know, things like that.
Although lately it's been kind of like Roxanne has been

(01:25:40):
accepted as part of the Judgment Day, I think with
Live Morgan coming back, obviously that should you would think
Roxanne Prez's character should be a little wary of Live,
knowing how she has acted around Dominic and how she
has basically done the same thing that Live did to
Rhea Ripley to infiltrate Judgment Day. So I do think

(01:26:03):
that's going to come to a head at some point,
and I'm all for wwetsing it out and not jumping
right into it. And it could be just kind of
the psychology that Live Morgan is using on Roxanne Perez,
and it will be interesting to see their interplay over time,
because I do think, you know, live has I think
you're right that she has kind of owned the room

(01:26:25):
a little bit with this character. I mean, she does
feel like she is in charge, and I think that's
to her benefit and to the benefit of Judgment Day
and to the benefit of Dominic Mysterio. I think that
relationship and how we're seeing that play out on TV
has been really fun and really interesting. I just don't
think her entering really lives up yet to her character work.

(01:26:50):
So I do think she's improved as a character. I
do think her performances on the MIC and you know,
her backstage segments that she's done with Judgment Day and
Dominic Mysterio I have gotten better over time and she's
really owned the character that she's playing. But I just
feel like her entring is still lagging behind that a
little bit.

Speaker 1 (01:27:08):
Let's cover the John Cena retirement match and the news
last night confirmed that we have Gunther in the finals,
which are the final, which we kind of figured based
on rumors, reports, et cetera. But Ellie Knight against him.
I don't know if you had Lle Knight in the
final bracket on your sheet and your predictions, But what

(01:27:30):
do you think of that and what do you expect
of it? And play out the more likely scenario, which
is Gnther, but maybe an alternative, which is Paula Beck going.
You thought you had me figured out? Huh Now I
called an audible. We're going with l A Night or
I always was, and we threw Gunther in there as
a red herring and spread rumors. Is there any scenario
where you see La Knight being the opponent for Sina,

(01:27:51):
perhaps as part of a Heilton or otherwise.

Speaker 5 (01:27:54):
I just don't see it.

Speaker 4 (01:27:55):
And the only way I see it is if they
do a swerve because Gunther is so obvious, the choice
that has been reported on for a long time, and
they could say, you know this is a match that that.
But again, you know it's John Cen's retirement, and do
you really want to pull that card.

Speaker 5 (01:28:12):
With John Cena's retirement.

Speaker 4 (01:28:13):
Obviously you'd have to get his approval and he's probably
been expecting Gunther, So do you want to switch it
on him last minute in his last match. I don't
think that'll be fair to him, But I think Gunther
is absolutely one hundred percent the right choice. Even before
the tournament started, when rumors where Gunther was going to
be seen his final opponent, I said, ah, that does
make sense, you know. I think he really stands to

(01:28:36):
benefit from it in a way that La Knight wouldn't.
I don't think even if you turn to l A.
Knight heel, I just don't think he has that same
cash and he I don't think he is able to
cash in on it in the same way that Gunther
could cash in on him being the one to retire
John Cena, maybe even beat John Cena in his last match.

(01:28:57):
I think here's the thing. If you want John Cena
to win in his last match, fine, have him go
against l A.

Speaker 3 (01:29:03):
Knight.

Speaker 4 (01:29:04):
But if you want Sina to lose in his last match,
or Sina wants to lose in his last match, it's
got to be gun Through. I think that might be
the difference in my mind, because I think Guntherer can
do a lot with that win over John Sena, do
a lot of gloating and things like that that would
be advantageous to him and his character and really getting
him back on track after coming back. And I think

(01:29:24):
he's a guy who you definitely want to get on
track for a big run, because I think he should
be one of your big heel stars.

Speaker 1 (01:29:33):
At the stage where ut was Sina's retirement tour, is this,
I mean it's wrapping up. Do you give it a
thumbs up? A big thumbs up? You say it was
a bumpy Where do you want.

Speaker 4 (01:29:43):
Me to begin in terms of like the point in
time where I'm looking at because that's gonna that's gonna depend.

Speaker 1 (01:29:50):
Yeah, well that ends well maybe, yeah, I mean how
would you honestly, like, how would you characterize it in
a sense or two? Taking the totality of the year
into account.

Speaker 4 (01:29:57):
I think it's been a lot better lately than was
at the start. Yeah, you know, the heel Turn ultimately
was a creative disaster, even though I liked the turn itself,
and I liked the potential at the time of what
it could bring, but it was just it in practice,
It was not good by any stretch, and unfortunately it

(01:30:18):
wasted a lot of his precious time. But I think
large maybe save for the brock lesnar squash that they
never really capitalized on for whatever reason, I think everything
else has been really spot on. I think they've done
a really nice job.

Speaker 5 (01:30:32):
I think the.

Speaker 4 (01:30:33):
Feud with Dominic Mysterio was fun. Having him win the
IC title was a nice touch, the last real singles
title that he hadn't won, and then you know, doing
this tournament I think was the right way to get
his opponent and to really generate even more interest in
his retirement match by having somebody earn it in this way,
I think was really smart as opposed to just naming
a random opponent. So I think for the for the

(01:30:57):
last few months, it's been really good after a bumpy start.

Speaker 1 (01:31:02):
I think that is a fair characterization. Who is going
to have benefited the most. It's hard to say without
without December thirteenth having taken place, but I guess did
dom benefit the most? Did Gody benefit the most? Who?
Like when you think about, okay, John Cena, did the
fans benefit the most? Maybe that's yeah, yeah, that John.

Speaker 4 (01:31:22):
I think that's really what it is. I don't know
that it was about. You know, John Cena did not
go out to make a star on his way out, Like,
I don't think that was the case. I think dom
you could make the case. But you know, he was
already getting cheered by a large percentage of the audience.
They had already seen him as a star. He didn't
go out and pluck someone out of obscurity and try
to make them so I think really it was about

(01:31:45):
the fans, and I think if you asked John Cena,
much of his career has been about entertaining the fans
in this way, and that's the way he would want
to go out.

Speaker 1 (01:31:55):
We are running our second VIP sale of the year.
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(01:32:16):
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to take nine dollars off a one month, three month
or one year sub. All right, let's talk about the

(01:33:23):
Continental Classic. It's early. We have I think a more
compelling Gold League than Blue League, but a week in
with some early examples of of kind of booking. What
do you think so far? Obviously, Kyle Fletcher with another
I'd still call it an upset win over Ocada, although

(01:33:43):
for people who've only seen Okada AW, they're like, of
course Fletcher one, because it's Okada. He's a he says
bitch and he makes funny faces. But he's had like,
you know, three really good matches in otherwise it doesn't
take him so seriously. But Kevin Knight with a you know,
the underdog story. We'll see how far they take that.
And then Pac who I think is one of the
stories in AW right now, somebody who's earning a chance

(01:34:06):
to become like a top four heel, a top three
heel in the company going into the new year with
his new look at his performances. I kind of I'm
ready to see him get a chance, kind of like
we're all waiting maybe for j White to someday get
a chance after lingering and having setbacks and stuff. I
want to see poc have a good chapter. So, looking
at the Gold League so far, your thoughts on that

(01:34:27):
and anything else you're in particularly looking forward to Mike Bailey,
Darby Allen and only are in Speedball are the names?
Yeah that I didn't mention so far because I mentioned Poc, Knight, Okata,
and Fletcher, so the other two would be Bailey and Allen.

Speaker 5 (01:34:42):
A lot of times.

Speaker 4 (01:34:43):
The New Japan Climax Tournament, which is sort of what
this is built upon, starts out their events with some
big upsets at the beginning, and eventually, you know, the
people who are big stars who are way behind end
up clawing their way back into contention. So Kevin Knight
defeating Darby Allen was notable, but it, you know, very

(01:35:03):
similar to the g One Climax where you have those
upsets early on and then you could beat Kevin Knight
a couple times.

Speaker 5 (01:35:10):
And he's still got some points out there. What stands
up to me?

Speaker 4 (01:35:13):
In the Gold League and it kind of mirrors the
Blue League in some ways that we'll talk about in
a moment. But you have Kyle Fletcher in Kazusko Kata
both in the Gold League, and they are both part
of the Don Kallis family, and we saw Fletcher get
the victory. But you know, it is interesting that you
have two members of the same organization in the same
league facing off against each other in that way, and

(01:35:36):
then you have, you know, looking ahead to the finals,
you have Okata in the Gold League, and you've got
his arch nemesis, also member of the Kallus family. Canos
get to Kesha in the Blue League? And so if
I'm penciling in a finals today, that's very tempting. And
you could see in backstage segments, just as it did

(01:35:56):
this past week, the tension continuing to boil throughout this
and then have Okata and Takeusta face off in the finals.
That's kind of my projection. But yeah, I think this
is really an opportunity for for Bailey and Kevin Knight
to stand out.

Speaker 5 (01:36:12):
I agree. I think Pac.

Speaker 4 (01:36:14):
I don't know where Pac got all that muscle from,
but I mean he's just put on looks like a
ton of muscle over the last several months, maybe while
he was out injured, but I thought he's done some
really nice promo work since he's been back, and I
like his look and I think he's somebody that I would,
you know, definitely have in the top two or three

(01:36:34):
in this Gold League and see where how he can
use that as a boost after the tournament is over.

Speaker 1 (01:36:40):
I go pro, baby, I go pro.

Speaker 5 (01:36:44):
In the in the in.

Speaker 4 (01:36:45):
The bowels of the WWE warehouse, still some of that
powder left over.

Speaker 5 (01:36:49):
I guess right.

Speaker 1 (01:36:50):
I think that the downside of this tournament is the
Blue League and you look at Takeushta and Moxley and
then there's just a big drop off. Claudio is a
lackey to Mosley. I enjoy his matches, but you know,
I mean, he is what he is at this point.
I don't think he's gonna have a uh. I mean
I shouldn't. I shouldn't rule out entirely. Desperate times call

(01:37:11):
for desperate, desperate actions, and I could imagine a situation
where they just go, let's let's do a big angle
with Claudio and let's give him. And I'm really not
against a four to eight month run where you just go,
let's have Claudio tell the story that he's having this
this just career renaissance or resurgence, He's never been more successful,
and see what you can do with him, either as
a face or heel. I don't think that's a story
they're telling this month. Just put it out there. So

(01:37:32):
I think you look at who's gonna come out of
the Blue League, and it's like, how excited are people
going to be about Orange Cassidy or Roderick Strong. I mean,
Orange is a really nice utility guy. You want him
on your roster, but you know, it's more more long
lines of Kazarian in terms of how you use him.
I think anything more than that, you're over pushing where
kaz was compared to where kaz is now and Roder's strong,

(01:37:54):
You're always gonna get a good match. But come on,
so and then Derada. I mean, I guess he'd be
what third on the list of candidates to be in
the semi finals, but then lose because you know, the
top vote getter or the top point getter faces the
second place person in the other conference. You could imagine
Orange Cassidy to Rader, Castigli or Moxley in that second spot.

(01:38:17):
You would think to catch the likely lands in the
top spot. Just from a match intrigue standpoint, they'll be
good matches. But I personally just think Pac and Darby
and Bailey and Okada and Kevin Knight is a more
interesting batch because Fletcher obviously going to have, you know,
be really exciting to watch. He just delivers. That's a

(01:38:38):
more exciting depth to me, and in terms of the
mix and match of the talent than what the Blue
league has. Which Blue League feels kind of like the
Collision Special and Gold feels like the Dynamite Special.

Speaker 5 (01:38:50):
So the parallel here.

Speaker 4 (01:38:51):
In the Blue League is John Moxley and Coladio Castigoli
both being a part of the same group and they're
in the Blue League, just as Okata and Fletcher part
of the callis family and they're both in the Gold League.
I think the intrigue for me is where Moxley is
as a character right now. And you know, he got
his first three points beat Derata, which is you know,

(01:39:14):
not he's going to be on the lower end of
this the standings by the end of it, I'm sure,
but Moxley is is kind of at a career crossroads
in terms of his character and tapping out to Kyle
O'Reilly twice and trying to find himself and trying to find.

Speaker 5 (01:39:28):
His way back up.

Speaker 4 (01:39:29):
And there were people at the end of his match
against Kyle O'Reilly who read into some looks that Claudio
was giving John Moxley that kind of painted some doubt
into whether Claudio and perhaps others in the Death Riders
still believed in John Moxley as their leader. And it

(01:39:50):
just is it, you know, for the mox versus Claudio
singles match in the Blue League, that's going to be
interesting to watch. But it's also going to be interesting
if Claudio out points John Moxley. If we project Knowski
Tequestra to win this to go against Kazusko Okada, and
what happens if Claudio finishes ahead of Moxley. I mean,
does that create further tension in the Death Riders? Does

(01:40:11):
Claudio make a play for a leadership role beyond what
he already has?

Speaker 5 (01:40:15):
So yeah, it's in terms of.

Speaker 4 (01:40:18):
Star power, the Goald League has it over the Blue League.
But I think the intrigue over how this plays out
with Claudio and Moxley, if at all, is what I'm
going to be watching for as time goes on.

Speaker 1 (01:40:30):
I like that. Yeah, I mean there are absolutely intra
tournament storylines that they can tell here, and I think,
you know, I mean, if they get to Tequesta Olcata
in the finals, that is a story they've been telling.
They also could tell that story in the semifinals and
have one of the big things bet that actually isn't
the finals like that Ocata or Tequesta when when one

(01:40:53):
of them is the second point getter and they meet
in the semifinals. If that happens, do you have a
b plan for who then would be the most compelling finals?
Do you make it an all don Kealla's family type
situation where oh, yeah, so we got Fletcher in a
in a match against Takeshta after Takeshta beats Okada, Or
do you tell a story of Moxley after the death

(01:41:16):
writers give up on him. He comes through or he
doesn't and that's the turning point for him. I'm still
intrigued with uh Pak as somebody who's a surprise finalists,
Like I haven't been this. I mean, I'm not like
you don't build around it, but I'm kind of He's
a super talented guy with a lot of a lot
of good matches in his past, but just unfulfilled, unfulfilled

(01:41:40):
landings in terms of charisma, and so that's interesting to me.
I like Knight as an underdug story. If you if
Tony Kahn wanted to just roll the dice with somebody
and go, we're just gonna super push Knight as a
single star, everyone would be up for the next six years.
No one would be able to with any confidence predict
the Continental Classic anymore because like, hey, Tony might do
the Kevin Night thing again, and I think that's smart
for a booker to do now and than to shake
things up and try to create a new star. So

(01:42:02):
I don't know, I throw those out there. What's your
backup plan to the finals?

Speaker 7 (01:42:05):
Like?

Speaker 1 (01:42:05):
Who do you see as a couple options?

Speaker 4 (01:42:07):
Otherwise, there are a couple of real redemption stories in
this or a potential redemption stories. What are the miss
John Moxley who could use this to kind of get
back on track after losing a little bit.

Speaker 5 (01:42:18):
And the other is Kyle Fletcher.

Speaker 4 (01:42:19):
You know, he is obviously a star that that AW
is wanting to build around, but he lost at full
gear to Mark Briscoe. And so is this an opportunity
to kind of write the ship for Kyle Fletcher and
to get back to his winning ways because that was,
in some regards an upset I think to have Mark
Briscoe beat him at that point in time. And so

(01:42:39):
Fletcher and Moxley are two guys. Do you put them
in the finals.

Speaker 5 (01:42:42):
Against each other?

Speaker 4 (01:42:43):
Maybe not, but it is an interesting story to tell
where you're saying, hey, both of these guys are looking
for redemption and one of these guys is going to
walk away bitterly disappointed and basically on a big match
losing streak, And so I think, even though they're both heels,
that's a really interesting story to tell and could call
for a lot of aspiration in that last match.

Speaker 1 (01:43:03):
All right, Greg, let's close a two quick topics or
one's an email and one is just a Survivor series?
What did you make of Survivor Series Silver? At Jason
Paul's website Pro Wrestling dot Net.

Speaker 8 (01:43:15):
In his.

Speaker 1 (01:43:17):
Reader poll, the show got on average a mile thumbs up,
and it got a good sample size of of voters.
He almost ran fifty votes here. Twenty nine percent called
it average. The second best vote or the second vote
get count was a good show at twenty seven percent,
so mild thumbs up, and then twenty percent called it disappointing.

(01:43:40):
The thumbs down was thirty three percent. The thumbs up
is thirty nine percent, So all over the place in
terms of reaction to this one, and I'm not surprised.
I think that there was enough there where I'd get
people going, hey, I saw star power. I saw an
intriguing cliffhanger with a mystery mass man. The star part

(01:44:01):
in the men's match start part of the women's match
a satisfying fun John Cena DOM match, but I also
get some people going three and a half hours four matches.
As Tod Martin pointed out on the roundtable, I didn't
think the women worked that hard. I didn't think, you know,
seeing a DOM was kind of you know, bells and
whistles and smoking mirrors more than like a full fledged

(01:44:21):
wressing match, which makes sense for seeing at this stage,
and the women's match could have easily just been a
mid card TV match, So there just wasn't enough substance
or really good off the chart hard work and for
a stadium setting, it kind of raised your expectations and
want a little bit more than maybe they delivered. What's
your assessment and do you understand how it's across the board,

(01:44:42):
so many different people with different opinions on this show.

Speaker 4 (01:44:45):
Yeah, I was definitely thumbs in the middle on this.
I think my round table I don't want to spoil
my roundtable score for you.

Speaker 1 (01:44:50):
You can okay.

Speaker 5 (01:44:54):
Their loss.

Speaker 4 (01:44:56):
I gave it a five point five, so it was
probably on the lower end of bwe pay per views
of Late you know, from an entering standpoint, I didn't
think either Wargames match was really good, and I didn't
think the other singles matches were really good. So in
an era where match quality is sort of a given
and then you don't get it on a pay per view,

(01:45:17):
I think that takes it down a lot. I wrote
in my roundtable that the Wargames matches were more games
than or I mean, the women's match felt like it
was a match that just happened to be contained inside
a cage. I didn't think they utilized it all that much.
And then you know, you had Jay Usso dancing in
the middle of a war. I mean, it's called Wargames
war Games and he's dancing in the middle of the match.

(01:45:39):
I mean, I get that this is not your father's
war Games. I get that it's not the war Games
of Jim Crockett promotions and things like that, but it
should be still a match where heated rivalries are settled.
And it didn't feel like either of these matches contained
heated rivalries to the level of requiring a Wargames to

(01:46:02):
settle it. And then you had both Babyface teams. The
story going in is dissension. You know, Charlotte Flair and
Ria Ripley couldn't get along, the whole Babyface men's team
couldn't get along, and it's kind of repeated every year,
that same storyline, and it just gets tiring. And then
you had, you know, Sena and Dominic, which was overbooked
to the hilt by the end of it. And you

(01:46:23):
had Stephanie Vcaer and Nikki Bella, which I thought would
have fit as maybe a TV made event and would
have gotten a better reaction than if it was placed
on this spot on the card. So there wasn't anything
like super egregious to me, and there wasn't anything that
was outright bad. But you know, for the expectations of
wargames matches and as you said, Survivor series in a

(01:46:44):
stadium setting, I just think this fell pretty well short
of expectations.

Speaker 1 (01:46:50):
Give yourself a reason to look forward to going to
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(01:47:12):
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(01:47:34):
can get a full year of home delivery for just
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trial subscription PW torch dot Com slash paper copy. All right,
let's close with Derek Mitchell, who has an emailing goals.
I'll try to keep this brief. Somjoe at forty six
just one a second aw World Heavyweight title at full

(01:47:56):
gear beating Hangman page age thirty four. That makes all
current world champions over forty. Here's a breakdown, Cody Rhoads forty,
Samoa Joe forty six, Sampunk forty seven, Frankie Kazarian forty eight.
That's why TNA wanted him to win. They wanted to
have their oldest champion. This isn't a new thing in
wrestling as older wrestlers have won their last world titles

(01:48:16):
in their mid forties through fifties. Terry Funk was fifty
four in nineteen ninety seven, Burngania was fifty four in
nineteen eighty. Harley Race was forty three in nineteen eighty four,
Dusty Rhodes was forty two in nineteen eighty six, Hulk
Hogan was forty eight in two thousand and two, Rick
Claire's fifty one and year two thousand. Nick Bockwin goes
fifty two in nineteen eighty six, although Nick always looked

(01:48:39):
sixty five. In his defense, John.

Speaker 5 (01:48:41):
Well, I was gonna say that about Harley Race.

Speaker 4 (01:48:42):
I think Harley Race was forty three for probably twenty
years exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:48:46):
Yeah. John Cena was forty eight at WrestleMania forty one.
Oh my god, I don't see this continuing. WWE has
younger talent like gunther At thirty eight thirty eight is
now younger town at the age one. People go, I
can't believe this quarterback can still complete a pass is
now a young prospect in pro wrestling. Gun thro At

(01:49:06):
thirty eight, bron Breaker and Dominic twenty eight, Obafemi twenty seven,
Logan Paul thirty They could be champions in the next
few years. Aw's Hangman Page at thirty four, So Strickland
at thirty five, Well Last Pray at thirty two, MGF
twenty nine, Kyle Fletcher twenty six. They seem likely to
win the AW title two. So what are your thoughts
on Cody, Punk, Joe and Sarian as older world champions

(01:49:26):
and who do you see dethroning them great. I am
not against older wrestlers being world champion. I think every
situation is different. We do have a confluence right now
of a lot of older champions. I mean it's I
mean Cody Rhoads is the kid at age forty and
it is forty five, forty six, forty seven, I'm sorry,
forty six, forty seven, forty eight for the other three.

(01:49:47):
There is a history of that, but it also can
kind of feel like Ben, they're done that a little
bit with some of the some of the wrestlers, and
I think the boom periods generally come when some he
really fresh hits the scene, but that doesn't mean you
don't ride out really good talent. I'm not against Cody

(01:50:07):
being champion right now. I'm not against Punk being a
champion for a little while. I don't think you built
around him, and I'm not against them with Joe being
champion in theory, although I think he's been disappointing as
a hel cause Darin, yeah, I'm against him. So yeah,
what do you think? And I guess what Derek Curly
wants to knows. Who do you think will dethrone them?
I'm curious how young you think they'll go when these
champions get dethroned.

Speaker 4 (01:50:28):
Yeah, it's hard because, like you said, every one of
them is different, and it's wrestling tends to the wrestlers
tend to find their stride and mature at an older age, right,
And we've seen this. I don't know whether it's a

(01:50:48):
new phenomenon or not, but you see guys really hitting
their stride in there thirty you know, they're thirty five
years old. So whether it's because they've taken a long
time to be discovered, whether or not, it's just wrestling
organizations tend to push older talent more, you know, I
don't know, And it reminds me that I'm looking it

(01:51:09):
up and I can't find it. But there's a very
funny tweet about like, you know, a baseball announcer saying, here,
he is the oldest player in Major League Baseball. I
don't know how he can walk to the play. He's
thirty five years old or something like that. Just that,
you know, when you get to a certain age and
see everybody younger than you are aging out of sports,
it's kind of like, Wow, I'm getting old, and I

(01:51:32):
think we're you know, we're kind of seeing that in
wrestling with these these wrestlers who are younger than us,
but they're being treated or being talked about like they're
these relics, and it's you know, a little bit to
makes you think about your own mortality. But anyway, back
on topic, you know, the champions are going to be
the guys who have miles on them and the companies

(01:51:55):
trust and sometimes you know, like Freaky Kazarian is doing
the best work of his career, is it his fault
that he's forty eight years old doing it? Like? Maybe not,
But for some of these guys, it takes a while
to really find that character that works, to find that niche,
to find where you fit in, but also to clear
out the previous generation. We've seen that companies like WWE

(01:52:17):
historically tend to be hesitant about pushing young talent and
really wanting them to kind of earn their spot. And
that's a wrestling mentality of the locker room. You've got
to earn it. You've got to be on the road
three hundred days a year for ten years before we
give you that top spot. And I think as much
as wrestling has changed, and as much as the backstage

(01:52:38):
politics have changed and all that kind of stuff, I
think there's to a degree, as long as people like
Triple ah're in charge who grew up during that generation,
there's still a little bit of that left. And so
I think that's a part of it as well. There's
no one reason for it, as you know, Derek said,
and as you said, everybody's different. But it does feel

(01:52:58):
like maybe that's gonna go by the wayside with some
of the aw stars that he mentioned and and some
of the up and comers and w WE and and.

Speaker 5 (01:53:09):
Wrestlers like that.

Speaker 4 (01:53:10):
But I think there's always going to be a place
for the the Seth rollins Is and the Cody Rhodes
and and the big stars, even if they're kind of
aging out.

Speaker 1 (01:53:17):
Of it a little bit. So predictions for who unseats
these champions. I would say for Franki Kazarian, it's it's
Mike Santana form Punk, I mean, the best bet would
be Brunbreaker right now because he's the next scheduled challenger.
And for samo with Joe, I'd say swerves Strickland. And

(01:53:38):
for Cody it's a little tougher. Based on the interactions Fribsiers,
maybe Roman Reigns Paula Beck, I don't think we shy
away from that. Maybe Logan Paul Well, yeah, I'm maybe
Guther should be in the conversation for one or the other.
Where are you on them?

Speaker 4 (01:53:58):
I think with Kazarian has got to be Mike Santana.
Unless Santana gets scooped up by WWE before he has
an opportunity for a rematch, then it's really up for
grabs because I don't know that there's a lot of
other contenders. You could have someone in NXT again win
the TNA title, but you've already sort of told that
story with Trick Williams with with Samojo, yeah, sort of Stricklander,

(01:54:19):
Adam Page. I'm still not sure how that shakes out
and who gets the first crack at Samojo and whether
it's a triple threat match or something like that. But
those are the two really obvious contenders at this point
with CM Punk. You know, we already talked about bron
Breaker potentially being that guy outside of that. If it's
not bron Breaker in January, you know, I think it

(01:54:42):
it becomes.

Speaker 5 (01:54:44):
A wider field. You know, do you do brock Lesner,
Do you do Bronson Reid?

Speaker 9 (01:54:48):
Is it is it?

Speaker 2 (01:54:50):
You know?

Speaker 4 (01:54:50):
Do you wait till Seth Rollins comes back and have
him take the title off of Punk? Do you do
something with Drew McIntyre. I think McIntyre has got to
be in the conversation for Cody Rhodes too, simply because
as he is a top heel on that brand. But yeah,
I think Cody is right now the the the least
obvious one in terms of who is the one who

(01:55:11):
eventually stops up to take that title, And it might
not be for another three for six months, so the
the landscape could be vastly different by the time he
does lose the title, and there could be different contenders
that we're not even thinking about, that aren't even on
our radar.

Speaker 1 (01:55:26):
It could be dominant mysterio for either title two and
a half years from now.

Speaker 4 (01:55:31):
Yeah, that's interesting mysterio with it as a world champion. Boy,
I mean, who can you imagine that promo he cuts
and how many people he rubs it into that that
he's champion? I know.

Speaker 1 (01:55:43):
Oh my god.

Speaker 9 (01:55:44):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:55:45):
All right, Greg, what's what's up on your next news?
What's dog out the topic?

Speaker 4 (01:55:51):
Uh?

Speaker 5 (01:55:52):
Yes, I did.

Speaker 4 (01:55:55):
Oh, I think what I was going to write about
to put No, I have like my next two columns
I think lined up, but my next one is going
to be John Cena's retirement. And looking back, as I
had written a column when this whole last ride of
John Cena started looking at who could fill in those
dates who were going to be potential opponents for John Cena.

(01:56:16):
So I wanted to look back on that column and
see who I chose as who I thought should be
in line to face John Cena or who could be
in line to face John Cena. And just to compare
that to how it actually shook out.

Speaker 1 (01:56:29):
Well, your column this week, which you wrote a little
bit ago, is it mentions the Santana contract situation expiring
at the end of twenty twenty five and if there
hasn't been an update on that. That is that's intriguing.
You have a whole rundown of different people who might
be free agents coming up, So that's another thing for
people to look forward to.

Speaker 4 (01:56:46):
Yeah, and certainly the landscape has even changed since I
wrote that, with TNA getting this TV deal.

Speaker 5 (01:56:50):
You know, all those contracts that come up.

Speaker 4 (01:56:52):
You can look at them in a very different light
now now that they have these this thirty million dollar deal,
now that they're going to be on AMC.

Speaker 5 (01:56:59):
You know that changed.

Speaker 4 (01:57:00):
There's the equation a little bit on who they might
want to bring back or make a bigger run at
bringing back than they would have otherwise.

Speaker 1 (01:57:08):
Certainly, if you're if you're Santana and you haven't signed
a renewal, you're like, all right, I got my agent
and I whoever gonna ask for a little bit more?
And if you just signed it.

Speaker 4 (01:57:16):
In like two weeks, who say, oh shoot, yeah, it's
all about leverage baby.

Speaker 1 (01:57:20):
Yeah, Greg, thanks so much. Pledge to talk with.

Speaker 5 (01:57:23):
You absolutely, Thanks Wade.

Speaker 1 (01:57:25):
Yeah, thanks very for listening, and we'll talk you out
next time if you missed it earlier. Just a reminder,

(01:57:47):
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