NEW FLAGSHIP: Keller & Parks talk Austin Theory, Punk in AEW vs. WWE, Gorilla Monsoon book, Cena, Cody, 2026 projections, C2, AEW PPV

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 2 (01:06):
Now, PW Torch and Spreaker bring you the Wade Killer
Pro Wrestling Podcast. It's time for the weekly flagship talking
current events in pro wrestling.

Speaker 1 (01:21):
All right, Greg, the mainwe topic right now and we'll
just pick up with it right away?

Speaker 3 (01:26):
Is the Austin Theory project.

Speaker 1 (01:28):
Can he be recalibrated, recreated, rehabilitated, cover right Paul Hayman
into a believable top tier player. That's one question, and
it hinges to a degree on what they have in
mind in this story arc. Is he Is he a

(01:49):
secret agent sent by Seth Rollins that will play out
of the next few months and actually end up a
babyface And we're going to see some signs of that
along the way. Is he just going to be a
pledge and kind of almost a lack of sorts or
you know, I think the clues or the way he
portrayed himself last night on Raw, or the way he
was asked to portray himself, all that is. You know,
for now, he's going to be kind of a silent

(02:10):
assassin trying to up his game and be part of
a top heel group. And maybe it's going to be
straightforward and they accept him and he's another player, and
it'll be two years before there's any kind of big,
big switch. There might be a fourth option not not
bringing up, but yeah, talk about Austin theory and and
we'll explore this and more.

Speaker 3 (02:26):
I'm definitely gored to hear your thoughts.

Speaker 4 (02:30):
I'm not as high on Austin Theory as some others were,
and certainly as WWE has been at different times. I
know Vince McMahon returned to television to get Austin Theory
over at one point very early in Austin Theory's main
roster run. Lately, he's been you know, slumming it a
little bit before he got hurt and wasn't really treated

(02:52):
as a top tier player, and I think there were
some real questions about how Triple H and the booking
team viewed Austin Theory and of his long term ceiling.
I think the one advocate pun intended that he has
in his corner and creative is Paul Hayman. And I
know there's been rumors for a while of Hayman wanting
to do something with Austin Theory, and so he gets

(03:14):
put into a situation where I do think the Vision
needed a permanent third member. I know Logan Paul is
associated with them, I don't know that he's really considered
a permanent member of that group. And he's not going
to be someone who's going to be on TV every
week like Austin theory can be. So I do think

(03:34):
the group needed someone else in it, and so Austin
theory it is. And the announcers talked a lot on
Monday night about how he really came through in that
match and proved himself to this group, so clearly they
are pushing him very strongly to be maybe not on

(03:57):
par right now with Bronson, Reed and brown Breaker, but
certainly in there in the atmosphere where they are. Right
He's not someone who's going to be brought in, at
least it doesn't appear right now. Things could change over
the weeks, but it doesn't appear he's someone who's going
to be brought in to kind of lose to the
cm punks of the world before Punk gets a chance

(04:18):
to get bron Breaker or lose to an upcoming opponent
of Broston Reid before that person takes on Bronson. Read
the way that a lot of groups have been handled
in the past, or factions have been handled, where one
member of the group is to lose to the bigger
stars as kind of a stepping stone to get to
the others in the group. That doesn't appear that way

(04:39):
right now. I think the intriguing part is what you
brought up is Seth Rollins. You know, Austin Theory is
coming in. He's using Seth Rollins as finisher. Now is
that a hint that he is associated with Rollins as
some sort of double agent trying to take this group
down from the inside, or is it almost a slap

(05:00):
in the face of Seth Rollins. You know, he comes
in and says, I can do what you can do.
I'm younger, I'm more athletic than you are at this stage.
And I think that's to me the most interesting part
of watching this play out and Washington Austin Theory's involvement here.
I do like that he seems to be taking himself
more seriously, at least right off the bat. I think

(05:20):
that was really needed to get him over as a
main player the level of Bronson, Reid and brown Breaker.
But the Seth Rowlinds part. And we know from history
that Seth Rollins is kind of a three D chess
kind of player. You know, he's the one that faked
the injury in the LA Night Match or whatever like that,
and so it would not be outside of Seth Rollins's

(05:43):
character to use Austin theory to infiltrate the vision and
take them down from the inside with him being injured.

Speaker 1 (05:50):
Yeah, and clearly we are not geniuses by picking up
on the clues that perhaps often Theory is meant to
be seen as emulating aspects of of Seth rollins. They
want us to be talking about Seth in relation Austin theory,
is my point. So is it uh? Is it just

(06:15):
kind of letting us know, yeah, think about this. Maybe
he is a double agent? Do they want us thinking that?
And is that actually, like you say, maybe he's not
and he's just using the stop to get to Seth.
And the goal, the goal is for there to be
a Seth versus Austin theory feud, and and that Seth's
going to be angry you know that, or or ticked
off or whatever that he's using his move and they

(06:38):
just see it as kind of a battle of a
battle of the stomps between the mentor and the protege.
And and that could be it because it they're being
they're they're not being subtle where they're trying to like,
because my point is if they were going to have
Seth theory be a double agent to Seth. Why make
it quote this obvious this early by having him emulate him?

(06:59):
So I don't want to overthink it either because maybe
I'm not, you know, just they want they don't think
everyone's gonna think he's a double agent at this point.
They're just gonna think he doesn't stop. So I but
I like that. I mean, like, say, we can say
what we're gonna say about Austin theory and our odd
our thoughts on the odds of.

Speaker 3 (07:14):
Him making it. But I'm intrigued with this.

Speaker 1 (07:18):
This is a It's like you know when your favorite
sports team makes a trade and you're like, A, I
don't know if it's worth that draft pick or giving
up that veteran for this young star or get your
three young stars. You're giving up three young stars for
the veteran. You know, You're like, you're not sure, but
it shakes things up. It makes the games more interesting
to watch. That's how I feel about this right now.
Like part of the fun of pro wrestling isn't just

(07:38):
great matches and seeing who the next world change and
you know, seeing who's who's gonna win a world time match.
It's who's going to in that real life sense be
on almost a reality competition show to see if they
can connect with the audience enough to gain the confidence
of the promoter to become a true top tier guy.
And we are watching that in real time with Austin

(07:58):
Theory right now, a guy who we've gotten and everybody
has opinions on him. We get to watch in real
time Paul Hayman mentor him on air and off air
to try to mold him into more than I think
the average perception of his upside is. And that's really
fun going into twenty twenty six.

Speaker 4 (08:17):
And I do like how they added someone to this
group who is not another Seth Rollins, another star that's
going to outshine or be above Bronson, Reid and Bron
Breaker in the pecking order. They are letting Bronson, Reid
and Bronbreker be the stars of this group by bringing
Austin Theory in as someone who is almost subservient to them,

(08:38):
or at least lower on the totem pole than them,
And I think that was smart. I think Breaker and
Reed do have the ability to be top stars, and
I do think WWE needs fresh faces in the main
event scene, and if they had brought someone in, maybe
a heel turn for somebody or brought a bigger name.
I mean just throwing it out there, Gunther. If they

(08:59):
had brought him in to lead this group, it was like, Okay,
Read and Breaker are taking a back seat now again.
So I do like how they kept them in the
spotlight for this group and yet added to the group.
And I think that's going to be the interesting dynamic
now because we saw how Reid and Breaker played with

(09:22):
Seth Rollins as the very clear leader of the group
that Seth Rollins was, and now they have someone underneath them,
and how does that dynamic work. How does the Bronson
Read Brown Breaker dynamic work in terms of, you know,
does one of them step forward as the alpha of
the vision or is that Paul Hayman who now takes
a lot of the leadership role that Seth Rollins had.

(09:44):
So there's a void there that I'm still waiting to
see how it's filled because right now Read and Breaker
have been kind of equals at the top of the
vision and I'm wondering if that's going to stay that way.
Breaker maybe has a nose ahead just by virtue of
him being in the world title picture, getting a chance
to face the himpunk for the championship coming up. But

(10:04):
other than that, I mean he and Reid have both
been pretty equal in terms of ww's message to the
viewers about who is on top in the vision.

Speaker 1 (10:17):
I think it's interesting that you say Read and Breaker
are equals and and I don't disagree, But who would
have predicted that a few months ago? Yeah, you know,
I mean Bronson Reid was going to be the guy
with its arms crossed standing, you know, he was going
to be big bubb Rogers standing behind Jim Cornett, the net.

Speaker 3 (10:30):
Express, you know.

Speaker 1 (10:31):
I mean, like he's gonna be Diesel or initially standing
behind Sean Michaels like like I don't know, the boss
man think or the big bubbet thing works better.

Speaker 3 (10:42):
Going way back.

Speaker 1 (10:43):
He's just gonna be the muscle guy who takes who
does the jobs, and it's like he has He's the
guy who's controlling the impulses of the young upward trajectory
future main eventor of future Mister WrestleMania main eventor in
bron Breaker. That's how they're portraying him. But they're not
portraying him as a guy who who can who's being

(11:06):
manipulated by Hayman or is subservient to Breaker, like they
each have different roles. But I think you're right, there's
been a deliberate, maybe even shift compared to the original.
I can't help but say the original vision for the
vision to have a break up up to have Bronson Reid.

Speaker 3 (11:24):
Be more equal. And I like that he is. There's
always been.

Speaker 1 (11:29):
I mean, we're so focused on Austin theory. But like
Bronson Reid is one of the stories of twenty twenty five,
you know, maybe Osy therapy one stories of twenty twenty six.
But they liked him, like they liked him personally, like
he just you know, his colleagues like him, like La Knight.
You know, people are He's a little awkward socially, he's
his own worst enemy. Reid was his own best friend politically.
He just he showed up and he was smart. He

(11:50):
asked the right questions. He just wanted to make things work.
He showed ambition, He wasn't obnoxious and pushy about it
all that stuff. So he got a few chances, and
this is a validation of it. He has performed really
well in this role and he can be invaluable to
helping not just bron breaker but Austin theory, and we
talk about Hayman mentoring Bronson. Read has it in him

(12:14):
even though he hasn't been a top guy for a
long time, or you could argue it's not there even yet,
but he's in the top mix. There's there's because of
his age and his experience and his maturity, he can
actually be helpful in making this work. And this plays
into the larger dynamic and we see it with the
Judgment Day at more of a mid card level. But
since you know, five years ago when the blood Line
really started to evolve because I probably in great part

(12:38):
because of COVID, because they didn't have live audiences, they
had to be created behind the scenes with their with
their backstage interactions and skits to fill TV time. It
changed what a faction is and what it can be.
And I think now Paul Hayman is going all right,
I want it to be different, but I want at
the core some similarities, Like Paul's not manipulating Austin, He's

(13:01):
he is a Paul Hayman's character is now turning into
the guy who wants to scout and and and and
develop and and polish people with WrestleMania main event potential.

Speaker 3 (13:15):
Mhm.

Speaker 1 (13:16):
And that's who bron Breaker is. And now he's intrigued.
I got Austin theory and Hayman is a heel. He goes, well,
I want a hedge. What if Break doesn't work out?
What if Breaker gets sick of me.

Speaker 3 (13:26):
That I got Austin theory?

Speaker 4 (13:28):
You know?

Speaker 1 (13:28):
So like that the interpersonal dynamics of these people is
going to be really interesting and there aren't redundancies, and
like you said, they're not bringing somebody in who's just
so established like Guon through it'd be like, eh, That's
why I felt about Seth in the vision. I don't know,
like I didn't care with Hayman and Seth, and I
don't think there would be with Guntherro and Hayman either,
but there can be with Theory. So yeah, I'm it's

(13:50):
fun to see Hayman still excited to do this with
a whole new group of people, and then we'll see
how Logan Paul fits into the mix too. You know
that that still feels a little weird, but not in
a bad way way, just that I have to figure
out where they're going with this way.

Speaker 4 (14:03):
Yeah, absolutely, And uh, you know, this is you draw
comparisons a little bit to the Don Calls family where
he's collecting all of these people to I don't know
if do his bidding is the right term, but certainly
win as many championships as possible and get to the
main events and and of course take out Kenny Omega
when when they have the opportunity. You know, Hayman doesn't

(14:24):
have that kind of laser focus on one person or
anything like that. It is, as you said, more of
you know, I want to lead as many main eventors
as I can in WrestleMania made eventors specifically, and that's
that's kind of the story the announcers told. I thought
that Michael cole and and Corey graz did a really
good job on Monday Night during that main event really
lay the roadmap for the vision and for Austin theories

(14:47):
role in it, and even Paul Hayman's role in it,
and what what Hayman is there to do and what
he wants to accomplish as a character.

Speaker 3 (14:54):
Let's pause.

Speaker 1 (14:54):
I'm want to keep talk a little bit more about there,
but let's pause and introduce the show here and then
and then I want to talk to you about the
strengths and weaknesses of Boston theory, why you think people
are high in him, why they should temper that or
be whatever you know, Like, are there warning signs this
is not going to work? Or are there simply indications
that it's going to be a challenge to make it work?

Speaker 3 (15:12):
So we'll get into that next.

Speaker 1 (15:15):
You can support us on Patreon and get these shows
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(15:37):
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This is wad Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast flagship episode on Tuesday,
December twenty third, twenty twenty five, and I'm way Keller,
host of the show, editor, publisher, founder of Progressing Torch,
the newsletter of the website, and a bunch of podcasts.
Search Waight Keller and search PW Torch to subscribe to

(16:00):
all of them, and one of the shows that I
host is the Weight Color Post Show. We talked a
lot about Austin theory yesterday, so if you didn't hear
that yet, jump on in and join the conversation. Nick Barbattie,
a PW Torch VIP podcaster of the host of the
Nicky's Club, joined me. Had been a while and we
went in depth on a shorter version of raw than

(16:20):
usual and a full length version of analysis overaw with
a lot more Austin theory talk and interaction with the chat.

Speaker 3 (16:27):
So check that out. If you haven't again, just search
way Keller. That is free.

Speaker 1 (16:29):
You can also join us live on the PbD Torch
YouTube channel and watch us stream at live on Monday,
Wednesdays and Fridays. But today I'm here with Creig Parks,
long time Pro Wrestling Torch columnist and podcaster, and we're
going to cover some of the same topics and then
obviously because it's a flag ship story off and other topics,
got some emails to get to also.

Speaker 3 (16:49):
Greg.

Speaker 1 (16:49):
Great to have you here, Merry Christmas, and glad we
could make this work this week.

Speaker 4 (16:54):
Yeah, Merry Christmas, everybody out there listening. Happy to be.

Speaker 3 (16:58):
Here, Greg.

Speaker 1 (16:59):
Any any any exciting plans for Christmas? I know it's
an exciting time period for a parent.

Speaker 4 (17:06):
Yeah, and our daughter's first birthday is Christmas Eve, so
we are we are planning on of course, Christmas with
the family. My parents are coming down. We're having Lilah's
first birthday party on Saturday. So there is a whole
lot going on and sort of you know, we're sitting
here right now, I'm recording this a bit in the
eye of the storm, so I'm sure it'll all work out.

(17:29):
But it's just we got a lot on our plate
for the next few days.

Speaker 1 (17:32):
Well, it's it's it's a fun time to show off
your baby. Yes, at this age, the next eight years
are going to get like better and better for a
while in terms of the excitement of Christmas for your
kid because he'll be you know, she'll be more aware
of what's happening and much more excited about gifts and.

Speaker 3 (17:51):
Side and stuff. So yeah, all right, very good.

Speaker 4 (17:55):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (17:56):
Oh as always, you can email us anytime throughout the
week and I'll mark it as a flight question.

Speaker 3 (18:00):
If you have a question for our flagship. Usually we
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Speaker 1 (18:03):
On occasion, like we did last week, we get enough email,
we just do a separate show, a mail bank show.
Zach Cador joined me last Wednesday for a bonus episode
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rich Fan and I didn't get to any of the
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Keller Podcast at gmail dot com. Anytime I thought hits

(18:24):
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(19:07):
need and say PW Torch VIP membership for twenty twenty six.
All right, Greg, I said, I wanted to get your
thoughts on on Austin Theori or Steid. You're not as
high on him as some You're probably not as high
on him as the people in power in WWE. And
I don't know what level of reservations Paula Beck has
compared to Vincent Man. I think Vince was probably more

(19:27):
of a fan than Levac, But I don't know. Hayman
would not take this on.

Speaker 3 (19:32):
I don't think.

Speaker 1 (19:33):
I mean he's he's he's gonna he's gonna do what
is dis asked of him and make the best of it.
But I think he would have talked Levec out of
it if Levec pushed this on him and Hayman didn't
believe in it. And when you look at their roster,
they don't have a lot of people in their late
twenties who.

Speaker 3 (19:47):
Are options.

Speaker 1 (19:48):
And I think when we when we evaluate the TV
time and push Austin theory is going to get it
should be done through the lens of John Cena is retiring,
AJ Styles is retiring, raymys Stereo is on his in
his last stage of his career.

Speaker 3 (20:03):
On and on and on.

Speaker 1 (20:04):
There's a lot of people they've been leaning on and
the roster's going to get thin if they don't start
using somebody theories age to work against some of these
veterans who can pass along, give them the rubs, so
to speak, and interact with them, or simply be there
when when these other top stars step away. Who knows
how much time Randy Orton has left on and on.
It was, it's just crazy how many people John Sen

(20:25):
and wrestled who are thirty nine years in older. During
his retirement year, there was you know, one exception, and
you know, I mean and that's Dominic and I think
Dominic is a you know, huge asset and this has
been a great year for him also, but they need
more so through the lens of that, who better you know,
We'll say ken you know, Chris Kenyon, who better than

(20:47):
Ustin theory also has to be kind of one of
the questions we asked when to go, how do we
utilize TV time at this period?

Speaker 3 (20:52):
So what do you what do you.

Speaker 1 (20:54):
Think of gambling on Theory? Is there someone else you
would be gambling on? And why do you think you're
more down on him than than some others are?

Speaker 4 (21:02):
I mean, I think to me, Austin Theory in part
has been defined down. So it's gonna take a lot
more work for WWE to make him interesting again, because
not only has he been defined down, he just hasn't
been very interesting as a character. And so I think
that's where I am with him. I don't think there's
anything exceptional from an in ring standpoint. He's solid. But

(21:29):
you know, Bronson Reid has the big man ability, you know,
the splashes, the power game, bron Breaker has the speed
and the agility and things like that. There's no calling
card for Austin Theory, and there's nothing that separates him
from much of the rest of the roster. So those
are a couple of reservations I have about him. He's

(21:50):
not a standout promo. You know, he's not a standout
character in any way. He doesn't have any real standout traits.
I guess is the way I would say he's solid
in a lot of areas. But he's not somebody who
just kind of jumps off the TV at you. And
again I compare him to Bronson Reading bron Breaker. Those
are guys if you're flipping through the channels, and I

(22:11):
know nobody does that anymore, especially because it's on Netflix.
But you know, Bronson, Read and bron Breaker are characters
that jump off the screen at you. You know, they're
the kind of grab you by the throat when you're
watching and make you pay attention. Austin theory is not
that guy. And maybe Breaker and Reader the exception, not
the rule, And so maybe it's it's not necessarily a

(22:34):
bad thing or a negative as much as it's just
this is who he is. And maybe those are aspects
that he can work on, certainly the promos and defining
a character, and that's something where Paul Hayman will come
in handy. I think I think WWE probably likes his look.
He's a young guy, a good looking guy who is

(22:55):
athletic enough. Yeah, absolutely, he can be the face of
our company exactly. You know, when when you have that
conversation and I mean really like, you know, so much
of the conversation around Brian Danielson and WWE was can
you imagine this guy being the face of the company. Well,
you can imagine Austin Theory being the face of the
company literally, Like he has the face of a guy

(23:17):
who could go out and do the talk shows and
do the media that that WWE requires of its major
stars and it's champions. So I think they kind of
see that in him as well. But you know, there
are you talk about youth being on his side, there
are guys who are going to be nipted his heels
coming up from an XT. I mean, you look at
a guy like Javon Evans, You're talking about a lot

(23:39):
of TV time that's going to need to be filled
when guys like aj Styles and John Cena and Raymisterio
on whomever step aside, especially now that SmackDown is adding
another hour come January. And Javon Evans just kind of
as a personality as a as an athlete blows Austin
Theory out of the water and keeps producing guys like Evans.

(24:02):
They're gonna jump ahead of Austin Theory in the line
pretty quickly.

Speaker 1 (24:07):
Yeah, and beyond there's Olba Femi Jovon Evans, Trick Williams.
I think the depth they're all very different than you
know from one another. Like Oba Femi, you just imagine
what role he's going to be in, and Javon Evans
you can imagine a role that he's gonna be in.
And Austin theory is in a different category. I think
Austin theory for some of the reasons you said earlier,

(24:28):
is a better fit. Like Obafemi would feel like more
of a young gunther in that he's just you know,
he can work on his own. You know that he
can be unto himself, a solo act that's sort of
done it.

Speaker 3 (24:43):
But yeah, like he doesn't need to be part of
a group.

Speaker 1 (24:44):
Not that can't benefit someone obviously did Roman Reigns, But
with Austin theory, the idea is it can work with it.
Javon Evans just doesn't feel like somebody who would want
to have anything to do with Paul Hayman, and Paul
Hayman might find him like annoying maybe in five years,
but Javon has this the sort of infectious and husiasm
and innocence. It just won't make any It won't be
believable at this stage of his veltman to join that group.

Speaker 3 (25:06):
And that's where I kind of think, you know, who
other than Austin.

Speaker 1 (25:09):
I mean, I don't know, like use the TV time
and and what's the worst that can happen? You know,
Austin theory gets a push and then he goes down
the card and he just you know, occupies some space elsewhere.

Speaker 3 (25:19):
They're not going to cut him, you know.

Speaker 1 (25:21):
I mean, there's there's enough there, especially with this that
they're probably not going to cut him and let him
go to a w with the type of investment they're
putting in him. So I mean, he'll have a job.
The question is just is he gonna work as a
top top guy and will the story be compelling? Heck,
even seth Rawlins with his you know, we talk about
who's aging out. You know, Roman doesn't want to work
a lot work a lot more years. He's talked about that.
Seth Rollins has injuries and he's his style as such

(25:42):
where it is stacking up his bump card. There's a
lot of bumps on it, so on and on and on.
You know, you look and you go, I understand, you know,
even if you're not sold on Austin Theory.

Speaker 4 (25:53):
The one guy that I would say is kind of
in the same boat as Austin Theory, and I have
a lot of the same criticisms of him as I
do Austin Theory is Carmelo Hayes. I don't I don't
know that Carmelo would be as good a fit for
the vision as as Austin Theory is. But you know,
Carmelo Hayes is good in the ring, but there's no

(26:14):
real standout traits. He's, you know, okay as a character.
He has a good look. You can see why WWE
wants him around and wants him on the roster. And
he may be a guy who gets pushed a level
or two higher every once in a while, but he'll
regress to the mean after that. So I look at
these two guys and unfortunately, you know, this is much
of what WWE's Performance Center has been putting out on

(26:37):
the male side.

Speaker 5 (26:38):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (26:38):
And that's that's a problem, and that's a criticism that
you're hearing more and more of the performance center. The
women are are fantastic, and they're doing great stuff with
the women, but the men are just not keeping pace.
And there was even a comment made on WWE's unreal.
Their their show on Netflix where Triple H was caught saying,

(27:00):
you know, the women they're putting out women five to
one beating the men in terms of just like the
talent that they're putting out, and I'm surprised that made air.
Maybe that was to light a fire under somebody in NXT,
but it's just kind of like the Carmelo Hayes the
Austin theory blueprint is what's coming out of NXT, and
they're just they're good, but there's just no real defining

(27:23):
trait that they have that make that grabs you as
a viewer.

Speaker 6 (27:31):
In twenty twelve, NXT transitioned into the developmental system and
ultimately the brand you see today. On the Torch VIP
podcast NXT Eight Years Back, we'll be taking a weekly
look at this page in NXT's early history.

Speaker 7 (27:47):
Join Kelly Wells and me Tom Stout from PWT Talks
NXT every Saturday as we go eight years back to
the day to track NXT's rising talents and why they
did or didn't work out exclusively for PW Torch VIP members.

Speaker 3 (28:03):
Do you think they did a good job.

Speaker 1 (28:04):
Let's look at the micro here and we talked more
macrowth aus the theory. But was there anything in particular
that was promising or concerning about the way they told
the Ustin theory story. I liked his explanation. I wore masks.
I didn't want people to judge me based on my past.
I wanted them to see my actions before I revealed
who I am. It's like a famous book author wants

(28:24):
to write in a different genre and they use a
pen name because they don't want people to go, oh,
this is this famous author, let's review him with all
he with all that baggage or all that acclaim clouding it.
They want to be judged as if there's some new
author and then they you know, it ends up being
revealed later. That's kind of what theory is going. It's
like I want people to see I can be sinister
and vicious and effective and then realize it's me.

Speaker 3 (28:48):
I liked that they introduce that.

Speaker 1 (28:49):
I liked in general that they want they owned that
he you know, wasn't focused and wasn't disciplined or whatever.
You know, kind of the words they used were my criticism,
greg Is. It just started to feel like hanned talking
points by the end, when you know, and that's a
weakness of Coal is sometimes he hits the talking points
he's given, but they don't feel like an original thought.
It feels like a focused group backstage came out focus,

(29:12):
but a group of writers came up with what are
the precise words we want to use and they end
up being not quite specific enough and kind of generic,
and it's this broad brush stroke of how they.

Speaker 3 (29:21):
Want you to feel. And I didn't.

Speaker 1 (29:23):
It didn't feel specific enough for me. So that was
one of my good and bad aspects of it. And
then there's also just how Austin Theory did with it. So, yeah,
kind of tell me what stood out to you.

Speaker 4 (29:32):
Yeah, I think Austin Theory's explanation, and you know, his
interactions backstage with with the vision really set him up
as someone who, you know, he didn't come in here,
whether or not he is a a plant of seth
Rollins in this group. He didn't come here to take
a backseat. He didn't come here to be along for

(29:52):
the ride and ride the coattails of bron Breaker, Bronson
Reid and Paul Hayman. He came to contribute, and he
came and that was that's kind of hard when you're
telling the story of someone who's trying to get into
a group and sort of you use the word pledge earlier.
He's kind of pledging to be in the vision, and
it's hard not to see that person as someone who

(30:13):
is beneath the others, you know, and having to earn
their way into it. But Austin theory, yes, he was
doing that, but he wasn't doing it from a position
of weakness.

Speaker 3 (30:25):
I didn't think.

Speaker 4 (30:25):
I think he had the confidence needed to get people
to take him seriously as a potential member of this group.
So I really liked his interactions with them backstage. I
think he did need to turn up the dial on
the aggressiveness and the viciousness in the ring to match that,
because I'm I'm not sure that's ever been a strong

(30:46):
point of his in ring character, and I think he
did that pretty well on Monday night. And you know,
I think the general discussion on commentary, I'm willing to
give a PAS because it is really the first week,
and so it's all about setting the table, and I
think the specificity may come in time, and in a

(31:08):
bit deeper explanation may come in time. So I wasn't
as down on that on commentary as I think you were,
but I thought for the first week, and as someone
who is, you know, maybe more doubtful of Austin theory's
upward mobility than some, I thought it was pretty effective.

Speaker 3 (31:30):
Very good. Anything else you want to bring up on
us the theory.

Speaker 4 (31:33):
I think that's it for now. We may sort of
come back later on sounds good.

Speaker 1 (31:37):
Let's shift over to the Continental Classic in AW because
that's you know, the next couple episodes of AW or
pre taped. We are going to avoid spoiler, so nobody
has to panic right now if they want to sit
back and wonder what's going to happen, and so we
can talk about the standings before everyone's final matches, and

(32:00):
to talk about who has shined in some of the
key storylines here. Obviously, you know, everyone went his tournament going, oh,
it's about Ocata and Takeshta and that's some inevitable thing
that's gonna manifest late. We also have the story of
John Moxley and his struggles and he's basically a heel
leader of a hell group is cutting baby face promos.

(32:21):
At this point. You have a speedball who's just kind
of fun. You know, a couple underdog wins, a couple understandable,
or a couple of losses. A couple of wins one
is a big upset. Same thing with Kevin Knight. You
know he's got he's two and two going into his
final match, and a couple like big ups So we
talk about, you know, future stars in a w wondering
where the next crop is going to come from, as

(32:43):
a lot of that talent as part of the launch
ages out, whether it's Christopher Daniels and Kaz and Scorpio
Sky not having a role, and and Orange Cassidy, he's
he's deceptively old, surprisingly old, and and and has been
sidelined a little bit more often lately. And then the
obvious ones like Chris Jericho and they can't lean on
you know, Adam Colpland forever for instance, or some Moojoe

(33:04):
for that matter. You got to start creating some stars.
And Kevin Knight is getting a spotlight in this one.
And then you got Kyle Fletcher. He's a key part
of their future. And I'm interested in what if they're
utilizing him to tell other people's stories, or if they're
telling his story. I think they're more utilizing him to
tell other people's stories right now, and maybe they think

(33:25):
he can withstand that. I'm curious if you agree with that. Obviously,
Jack Perry's just a throw in. Rodert Strong's just start
to take take some losses and have some good matches.

Speaker 3 (33:35):
Same with Dorata.

Speaker 1 (33:36):
So I think I covered you know, Oh and then
Pack and I've been true with Pak. That's another guy
going in that I'm like, are they going to try
to establish him as having a surge? You know, we
talk about people kind of being defined in a certain role.
Will this tournament be a way where they break Pop
out of the role that he's been in and try
to make him ready to be the guy who's opposite

(33:56):
of Moxley and have people care and see it as
a main event program. And then you know, question is
is Claudio more of a priority than Pak? So those
are a lot of the talking points that I thought
might happen going in, and they are.

Speaker 3 (34:08):
Here as we head into the final stretch. What stands
out to you pick any of those two? Expand on?

Speaker 4 (34:14):
Yeah, I mean, when I'm looking at the standings right now,
it's it's the Gold League. You mentioned Kyle Fletcher, and
I don't think at this stage of the game, with
two nights left before the semi finals, I expected the
Gold League to be a five way tie.

Speaker 3 (34:28):
Y Yeah.

Speaker 1 (34:29):
Oh, Joshcherry's got three points with two matches left. By
the way, he could end up with six points too.
We could have, like I don't know the match order,
I don't have it that memorized, but everybody else has
is three, has two wins and two losses. He has
one win and two losses, so he could actually end
up also with six points, and you could end up

(34:51):
with a five way tie or six way tie going
the last last stretch, go ahead.

Speaker 4 (34:54):
Yeah, and Pak is in the driver's seat because he's
got six points, and of the people with six points,
he's the only one that has two matches left, right yep,
So you know it's it's kind of his to lose here.
But yeah, I did not expect that. I thought Kyle
Fletcher and Okada clearly would be the class of that league.
Bravo to Tony Kahan for booking more than a few upsets.

(35:17):
You know, we we're used to seeing a few upsets
in the Continental Classic, same with the g One, But
to have Mike Bailey and Kevin Knight at six points
along with guys like Okata and Kyle Fletcher, I think
is really interesting. Pak is another one who you know,
I've I've been impressed since he's come back from injury
to the point where you know, I would I would

(35:38):
absolutely have him in the conversation with Okada and Fletcher
as far as winning the Gold League. But for you know,
for Bailey and Night now now, the key is always
right when you have upsets the love that we've seen
from these two guys, the key is always the follow up.
Are they just gonna go back into their tag division
and kind of be a mid card tag team that
gets a title shot every once in a while, or
does AW use this as an opportunity to break them

(36:00):
out as singles wrestlers with something meaningful to do. Otherwise
it's just kind of a self contained storyline for the
Continental Classic. Maybe you can revisit it next year if
they're in the Continental Classic as perhaps more of a
threat next year than people thought they were going in
this year. So clearly, the five way tie at six
points is really intriguing in the Gold League, and then

(36:22):
you look at the Blue League and the story there
was Claudio Castiuoli and John Moxley. Moxley kind of came
in on a losing streak. Would Claudio outpoint him to
the point that there would be more than whispers in
storyline about who should really be the leader of the
Death Riders at this point? And right now, with one

(36:45):
match left each, Claudio has seven points, Moxley has six.
So there's a real possibility that Claudio does finish with
more points than John Moxley and what is the fallout
from that? And I also think it's interesting that Moxley
so Moxley.

Speaker 3 (37:01):
Claudio's last matches against Roderck Strong.

Speaker 4 (37:04):
And Roderk Strong has zero points, so you know, maybe
an upset there just to get Strong on the board.
Who knows, Uh, Claudio Moxley coming in on the streak
that he was on a bit of a losing streak. Uh,
you know that you could have gone a couple of
ways here. You could have him continue on the losing
streak and just like the bottom completely fall out for

(37:26):
him in this tournament. Or you could have used this
tournament to have him right the ship and he just
goes on a huge winning streak and just dominates the
Blue League they've not done either of those. They've really
played it down the middle. And I think that's more
intriguing because for a guy like John Moxley, I think
that sort of plays with his head a little bit
more than if it had been definitive one way or

(37:47):
the other.

Speaker 1 (37:48):
So win against Roderk Strong and and.

Speaker 4 (37:51):
He lost to Claudio, and so Claudio, even if Claudio
doesn't outpoint John Moxley, he has the win over Moxley
in this tournament as a bragging point if it were
to ever come to that in the Death Riders. And
then so you know, you've got Takeshta up there, and
you know, I've talked the last time we were on
about my expectation of it being to Qush to Nocada
in the finals. That is certainly still a possibility. You've

(38:14):
got roder K Strong that has zero points. If he
ends up with zero, you know, we've seen him sort
of comedically slough off the conglomeration and not wanting to
be a part of it, but just still showing up
in interviews and things like that. I mean, is this
is this the impetus for him to turn heel on them,
that the frustration of not being able to score any

(38:36):
points or not being able to do a better job
in this tournament. So when we're looking at the bottom
of the standings, I think that's something for Roderick Strong
to think about.

Speaker 1 (38:45):
Is the Contino Classic a winning concept for a w
and are they getting better at it? And how have
your feelings about it evolved? And I'll premise, mind I
wanted it to be the g one with all the
main eventters, with all these novel matches.

Speaker 3 (38:59):
Tony Kin clearly like, no, we're not gonna put everybody
in it.

Speaker 1 (39:01):
We're not even explained why some are in and some aren't,
and because we need some people to do jobs. And
so I initially resented that and was kind of hung
up on it, and now I'm just kind of enjoying
it for what it is.

Speaker 3 (39:15):
That's kind of worry. How about you?

Speaker 4 (39:17):
Yeah, absolutely, I think you know you've got your world
title story. I think to take all of those champions,
the top contenders and put them in this I think
would be kind of difficult, and you know, hit pause
on a lot of the stories they're telling and start
telling new ones within the Continental Classic. When you have
the amount of TV time that AW has to fill.
You know, you can get away with that in the

(39:38):
g One because it's there's not a weekly television program
that New Japan needs to fill with storylines and needs
to get ratings, and they can kind of get away
with that, and I think that's a little bit more
difficult in the position that AW is in. That being said,
the Continental Classic over the last few years has been
an opportunity for AW to really write the ship television wise,

(39:59):
because at least one, if not both, of the previous years,
AW had been kind of in a funk with their television,
and the Continental Classic was an opportunity for them to
like put on some really good shows with really good wrestling,
telling the stories that they're telling within the confines of
the tournament, and really write that ship. And I don't

(40:19):
think they were at that level this year where they
really needed the Continental Classic to come along to put
on better television. I think their TV had been pretty
good leading up to it. But that's kind of what
I think about the Continental Classic, as it kind of
maybe not resets things, but it's it focuses Tony Kahn

(40:40):
storytelling for at least these couple of weeks on Okay,
you've got your main event storyline, like we're seeing with
sort of Strickland and Adam Page and Samoa Joe. But
then everything else or almost everything else with the Men
is dedicated to the Continental Classic. And I think that's
a pretty good combination to have when you're filling three
to fo four hours of TV every week.

Speaker 1 (41:03):
Anytime you're watching WWE Raw or SmackDown or AW Dynamite
in particular, send us an email if you've got thoughts
on the show or a topic you want us to
address or a question for us. Wadekeller Podcast at pwtorch
dot com. Wadkeller Podcast at pewtorch dot com. If there's
anything else going on in pro wrestling that you want
us to address on our main podcast during our mailbank segments,

(41:26):
that same email applies Wadekeller Podcast at pwtorch dot com.
We invite that interaction. Let us know what you think
of what we're saying, and let us know what you
want us to talk about and ask us specific questions.
Wadekeller Podcast at pw toorch dot com. All right, let's
go to an email here from Andrew and ajx AW

(41:48):
related and it kind of shifts us to World's End
a little bit here. Hey, wading Greg with the World's
End paper this weekend. It's very possible we get a
surprise return or addition to the aw roster. Since we
haven't seen Adam Coleplandor and Christian, I believe since September
now is as good a time as any to bring
them back. So my question is how can Adam Copland
return and save face? We last saw him bemoaning the

(42:09):
attack on his wife at the hands of FTR going
to find a smile or something in k fabe. One
would think he would have enacted some sort of immediate revenge.
Has Copeland's badass image been tarnished? What story can provide
a suitable reason for his disappearance beyond I'm so angry
that I left, which is code for I want to
wait to film a movie. Also, if not Copland, is
there anyone else who could show up at the pay
per view? Because Tony Knin likes to surprise it's on

(42:31):
pay per views. Thanks for all the great content. Meryor Christmas.
Happy Holidays to all the Torch crew and all the listeners.
Should make their New Year's resolution to go vip Andrew
email of the Night, Email of the week. Thank you
so much, PW Torch dot com, slash Go Vip Seriously
sell those gift cards that are just going to get
lost in the in the couch or under your car
seat or something, and sell them to your relatives ninety

(42:54):
cents on the dollar even, and get your VIP membership
with cashing those out. Everybody, all right, that's my ploy
this season, right, So yeah, on a serious note, yeah,
I mean he's got a good point about, you know,
code for going to film a movie.

Speaker 3 (43:07):
Do you think one?

Speaker 1 (43:07):
Do you think it's important in this day and age
to explain it? Or can Copeland just show up and
be mad and people just be like, okay, all right,
I guess we're picking up or were left off. I
get where Andrew's coming from. I wish more bookers and
promoters and wrestlers were cognizant of and attentive to kind
of that level of detail. And I'm not ruling out
they won't, you know, have something to say. I mean
it might just be a throwaway line.

Speaker 2 (43:28):
You know.

Speaker 1 (43:28):
I went into a dark cave and ruminated about how
to what perfect way to get revenge?

Speaker 3 (43:34):
And now I have it.

Speaker 1 (43:34):
I don't know, you know, Copland is capable of doing
that that super serious, intense look promo.

Speaker 3 (43:40):
So yeah, your thoughts on Andrew's question.

Speaker 4 (43:42):
Yeah, I understand that, like you where he's coming from.
I think that if someone is going off to film
a movie for the length of time that Edam Copeland has,
I think you want to explain it somehow. And so
they did what they could, right. You know, he left
still in a beef with FTR, and it is worth
pointing out that at World's end, FTR is putting the

(44:05):
aw World Tag Team titles on the line against the
Bang Bang Gang in a Chicago street fight. So theoretically,
Adam Copland could get involved in that match legally to
help Juice Robinson and Austin Gunn win the tag titles
as a level of revenge against FTR. I'm sure the
revenge would not stop there, but that is something to

(44:26):
think about. I wonder if he comes back with Christian
at his side, because their partnership was a little tenuous
to begin with when they started it, and as time
has gone on and as they've both been off TV,
can you kind of put that back together either with

(44:46):
a stronger bond than they left, or can you put
them back together with the same level of maybe distrust
that they had when they left. I don't know. It's
hard to kind of skip ahead this many months and
just kind of pick up where you left off relationship
wise with another wrestler. So I wonder about that, you know,
in terms of surprises, Copeland, Christian Cage, you know, it's

(45:09):
the same for people who have been off TV for
a long time. Doctor Britt Baker is someone who could
show up. You know, we've got the women's world tag
team titles on the line, We've got the women's world
title on the line. If Chris Statlander beats Jamie Hayter,
you could see a scenario where Britt Baker comes back
and sets up a match with Statlander. There Chris Jericho,

(45:29):
we really don't know his contract status. That's kind of
up in the air. It seems like both AW and
WWE want him, so it's really his decision, and so
whenever that decision gets made and pen gets put to paper,
especially if he re signs with AW, I mean, he
could show up any time. Andrande is one who I
think he was able to recently. I think Fightful was

(45:51):
recently reporting that he negotiated his release from WWE, so
I would assume that he would be able to show
up again on a w t V whenever he's legally able,
and that could be world's end. So those are some
names that come to mind right away in terms of
folks that could make their returns on on a w

(46:13):
As far as debuts, I don't. I can't think of
any anybody who's who would really debut on this show.

Speaker 3 (46:20):
Javon Evans, he's a free agent.

Speaker 4 (46:23):
Well yeah, a w w A free agents.

Speaker 3 (46:28):
He's a free agent. He's auditioning for Adam Pearson. Nick all.

Speaker 4 (46:31):
This is the word free, the word free, doing a
lot of heavy lifting in that in that phrase. Right,
absolutely not quite.

Speaker 3 (46:37):
Free, Yeah, not exactly free to pick his brand, but
all right, very good.

Speaker 1 (46:45):
So from up from a broad perspective, to line up
for staying away from the spoilers for the Continental class,
because there's three matches semi finals and finals or semi
finals and final in the h on the paper, so
that feel three of the spots. But you have Smo
Josh for Glinn Hangman and mjf as also a.

Speaker 3 (47:05):
Main event here.

Speaker 1 (47:05):
Depending on how you look at the final of the
Continental Classic and Chris stant Leonard Jamie Hayter the women's title,
not not more quie wise at the level of the
other two, I would pose it, so focus first on broadly,
how you think this lineup looks. You mentioned the the
FTR title defense. He got Darbiellen and Gabe Kid, he
got Babes of brath and against Mercedes Bone and Athena
also on the under card. How does this lineup look

(47:27):
to grab people's attention and between Christmas and New Year's.

Speaker 4 (47:30):
Yeah, I will say I think a couple of those
matches were made at the tapings that haven't aired yet.
Hard to analyze that having seen how things are set up,
you know, in the in the final final days, but
you know the ones that we kind of knew going
in FTR and Bang Bang Gang, you know, Juice and
Austin coming back from injury and offering something a little

(47:54):
different for FTR and adding some depth to the tag division.
I don't think that's a bad thing. Crowds seemed to
really get behind the Bang Bang Gang at this point,
so I think they've certainly earned it from a fan
reaction perspective. Harley Cameron and Will and Nightingale have really
enjoyed their interplay as the babes of Wrath. So Mercedes
Manet and Athena Mercedes on a bit of her losing

(48:16):
streak herself. You know, she loses the I believe the
roh title, the Red Velvet, she lost the one of
the British titles that she had to Alex Windsor. So
she's really maybe not desperation mode, but I think she's
got something to prove here in storyline in this match
against Harley Cameron and Will and Nightingale, Statlander Jamie Hayter.

(48:42):
I think Jamie Hayter has there was a time, a
very short window where she was looking like she could
be the star of the women's division, and then she
got hurt and was off TV for a while, and
I don't think she came back at the same level
in ring or the fans. I think the has kind
of moved on to others. You know, I think Harley

(49:03):
Cameron and Will and Nightingale two of them. So this
doesn't have the same juice that I think it would
have had it happened at a different time in aw
and then the main event, you know, sort of MJF
we didn't talk about mj ass return, and I'm sure
we'll talk about that here in a moment.

Speaker 5 (49:18):
No.

Speaker 4 (49:19):
Yeah, so you know, him adding a lot of star
power to that main event. It's a four way. We
don't see a ton of multi person main event title
matches on AW pay per views, so this is intriguing
just from that perspective. But also you've got a lot
of strained relationships here, sort of strickling and Adam Paige.
Are they going to try to work together? What's their

(49:40):
relationship like in this four way? You know, they've put
set the table pretty well for how they all feel
about Samoa Joe and what's happened to Samoa Joe over
the last few months. And then MJF kind of waltzes
in and just knocks everybody down on promos on Wednesday
night and does does his usual mj afshtick. Not much
has changed since he was away except this error, I guess,

(50:01):
but you know it's MJF. Does you know? Add he
adds like a stick of dynamite to the match a
little bit, right, He's in there to kind of blow
things up in some ways. So that's it's that's intriguing
from that point of view as.

Speaker 1 (50:18):
Well, is is does Simojo being champion make more sense
now in light of if we look, if we assume
Tony Khan and that's pretty safe, has a lot planned
out right now, including this match in the angle last
Wednesday with MGFF, and we want Joe to be champion
and we want to four way, Like, does does everything

(50:41):
make a little bit more sense now? And and are
we uh heading towards MJFF eventually winning the world title
in twenty twenty six and then or or at world
I guess that's still twenty twenty five, but losing it
maybe to Will Osprey and that's kind of the crowning
moment this summer. Taylor Haley was writing about that in
his aw Top Promos of the Week and kind of

(51:03):
analyzing where this could be going.

Speaker 4 (51:06):
Yeah, I don't know if that makes Joe's win make
more sense. I mean, You've got a heel who's in
a four way, and usually that's a baby face position
where they have to fight from underneath because there the
odds are stacked against them. And here it is a
heel Simo Joe, where he's got the odds stacked against him,

(51:27):
you know, MGFF coming out to further stack the odds
as a heel against a heel. Although I don't know,
maybe MJFF was a babyface. I don't think he was,
but no, so that that was kind of strange as well.
I think it would have been a little bit more
powerful for MJF to come out and add himself to
a match where the baby face was champion, whether it's
sort of Strickland, whether it's Hangman Adam Page. So I

(51:51):
don't think it really makes any more sense for Joe
to have won the title, knowing where we are now.

Speaker 1 (51:58):
At my point, wuld be you don't want to make
Hangman a transition champion. If MGF win Saturday. You don't
want Hangman to look like he just was keeping about
warm for MGF. Foorth smow, Joe, you're not worried about.

Speaker 4 (52:07):
That, Yeah, I guess. But if Page had held the
title till December, how long would he have held the belt?
When did When did he win it the first time
or the most recent time? I guess? So let me check.
Let's see if I can find the lineage here. So
Joe won it in November. I know it was a

(52:29):
short rain for Page. He won it in July, so
you know, I don't look at July to December had
Joe not won the title as a transition period.

Speaker 1 (52:41):
I was thinking that the idea was Joe when Joe wanted,
he'd lose it right back to hang Man. But you're right,
but even that set, even with my clarification, I get
your point. It's like, Okay, you had a one month interruption,
big deal, You're a long term champion. It's not transitional.
But he might not have wanted Hangman to lose, to
be champion and lose. I guess that is that worse
than being a challenger and losing. So I don't know,

(53:03):
it's just the idea of some moo Joe holding the
title to the end of the year and losing it
in a four way. I'm trying to make more more
sense of why that decision was made, and it's still
you know, there is still a risk that this feels
like maybe Hangman comes out Saturday as champion, but it
comes across as a vote of no confidence in Hangman's
title reign or a vote of we have a better
idea even though you did just fine.

Speaker 3 (53:24):
And is Joe.

Speaker 1 (53:25):
I'm trying to kind of, you know, put the question
out there. Is there something about Joe's reign that that
takes away that that sense that that hangman is being
seen as someone he tried twice with and twice decided
not to not to stick with him.

Speaker 2 (53:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (53:41):
I don't know. I don't see it that way. I
guess I think that that, you know, circumstances are what
they are, and sometimes you get along title reign and
sometimes you don't. And do I think it would have
been more effective had, you know, Adam Page held the
title from July to right now, and maybe Somemojo was

(54:02):
still involved, and maybe there was some screwiness into the
finishes where Joe could kind of claim getting another opportunity
here in this four way and then MJF wins it,
and then Adam Page says, well, you know, does it
help Adam Page to have lost the title in a
four way to MJF versus having to lost it one
on one to Samoa Joe, someone who nobody really gave

(54:22):
gave a chance of being the man to beat Adam Paige.
I tend to think that's Adam Page would be in
a better position had he won the title in July,
lost it in December in a four way and had
the argument that he deserves a one on one rematch
and he only lost it because it was three other
guys in the match versus Adam Page holds it from

(54:43):
July to November, loses it to a guy nobody really
thought had not had a chance to beat Paige, and
then Page loses again in a four way. So I
don't know. I it is curious. I think the way
this has come about.

Speaker 8 (55:03):
I'm Kelly Wells, host of the seven Star Podcast, the
new Ongoing Torch show covering the world of New Japan
pro wrestling. We'll drop new episodes as major shows and
noteworthy events dictate.

Speaker 9 (55:16):
And I'm Chris Lansdell join us as we covered the
ever changing landscape of New Japan as they navigate an
era with no lack of talent but a real need
to create some news stars. You can stream the new
seven Stop podcast now from Pro Wrestling Talk.

Speaker 1 (55:39):
Let's go to another email question here, this from Derek
Mitchell Hope, also with you in the World of Pro Wrestling.
December eighth, mark Siampunk's seven hundred forty fourth day in
WWE since returning at Survivor series twenty twenty three in
his hometown of Chicago. Seems like a random stat but
it's not, because he officially surpassed his seven hundred and
forty three day stint in AW Now, how would you

(56:01):
compare each tenure with the companies focusing on his promos
and ring work and excluding his Infusis promo with Hangman
Page heading into Double or Nothing twenty twenty two brawl
In and Brawl Out, which has been most successful since
his return to wrestling, Well, first, I would say punk
stint and w B has been less volatile. I know
it's controversial stance here to take, but less volatile than

(56:23):
his his stint in ae W.

Speaker 4 (56:26):
Yeah, but that's also less entertaining to us.

Speaker 3 (56:28):
In certainly right, Punk has been better for business.

Speaker 1 (56:31):
Punk was better for business than AW there No, Honestly,
good for business is not just turmoil behind the scenes.
Good for businesses really compelling characters that fans are, really
compelling wrestling characters who fans are invested in, in good
feuds and good storylines. And I don't want to joke
that we're rooting for turmoil, but obviously it's it's I
enjoy covering that stuff. I like the inner personal interplay

(56:54):
behind the scenes. But I also really like analyzing and
watching storyline succeed and analyze what's clicking and what's not.
So in that sense, Punk's been Punk has been good
for us in two different ways during both of those
seven hundred forty three forty four day stretches.

Speaker 4 (57:09):
Well put well put ye, No, that's since here too. Yeah. Absolutely,
And if you have any like feelings for seem Punk
the human being Phil Brooks, like, you're happy that he's happy, right,
because there was so many times that he's been on
our television screens where he's been unhappy, whether it was

(57:31):
Latter Day WWE, the first time around, whether it was
parts of his aw run. And to see someone at
the stage of their career be happy, I think as
a human being, you you.

Speaker 1 (57:41):
Kind of are happy for them, you know, but a
lot of those lines unhappy Punk is a lot better
for business.

Speaker 4 (57:47):
But there you go. We circle back to it, right,
So if.

Speaker 1 (57:49):
We if we if we care about Punk the person, yes,
but I don't care about Punk for he's just another
random celebrity.

Speaker 3 (57:55):
I care about being.

Speaker 1 (57:57):
Having watching someone having angst and discontent manifest in immature
and over the top ways that causes tons of uproar,
both behind the scenes and on camera.

Speaker 3 (58:06):
No, I'm.

Speaker 4 (58:09):
Yeah, yeah, I mean it's he is very clearly not
the same wrestler he even was in AW and so
if you look at it from the lens of just
the inn ring standpoint, AW, I think was a much
more successful run for him. Now he has had some
really good matches in WWE. I think his storyline with
Drew McIntyre was I would put that against any storyline

(58:32):
he was in a AW and I know there were
some really good ones he was in in AW, but
I don't think they really touched what he did with
Drew McIntyre. So that was a high point for him
in terms of comparing these two. These two and you know,
I think there was a lot of promise in that

(58:52):
AW cmpunk relationship that ultimately never got fulfilled. I think
you saw you're seeing cm punk now in WW you
want to give back, right, He's maybe not so much lately,
but he was going to a lot of the NXT tapings.
There's rumblings that he wants to take over for Sean
Michaels and and lead NXT. And you kind of saw
that with AW, where he wanted to be a leader,

(59:12):
and he wanted he was like in charge of Collision
for a while, and you know, whatever responsibilities were given
to him for that, I you know, unclear on the
level of responsibility he had on Collision, but clearly he
had some. And so you know, he's somebody who is
really interested in that aspect of the business and being involved.

Speaker 3 (59:32):
The Punk's gonna coach NXT before John Cena does.

Speaker 4 (59:37):
Uh, yeah, I would. I would put that in the
probably pile for sure.

Speaker 1 (59:40):
But but but John Cena is an ambassador who loves
giving back to the young guys, and he well, there.

Speaker 4 (59:45):
Are different ways. There are different ways to give back,
you know.

Speaker 1 (59:48):
Not yeah, I'm being a little snarky, but more I'm
just sort of like differentiating their places and their Yes, absolutely,
public statements are both in support of NXT and development.

Speaker 4 (59:58):
Absolutely. So you know, Punk in WWE, I think has
been has been more successful than anybody or most people
gave it a chance to be. When he first returned
to WWE, it was going to be like, Okay, let's
start the countdown clock, right, But he's been, you know,

(01:00:19):
he's been, He's been an asset to WW. I mean,
you look at where WWE would be with Seth Ronalds
being injured and with Roman Reigns being off TV. It's
you know, goes back to what you were talking about earlier,
is aj Styles is retiring and Roman Reigns is being
seen on TV less and less. Somebody. The star power
of CM Punk, I think is more important in WWE
right now than he was even in AW. He was

(01:00:41):
he was important. He got AW on the map in
a lot of ways, and he got you know, he
was he was seen as kind of a lynchpin star
for them to help kind of raise up the mjfs
and the Adam Pages of the world who were seen
as stars within the AW ecosystem but maybe not pro
wrestling stars outside of that. Where interacting with CM punk,

(01:01:03):
I think the goal was to get them seen as
even bigger stars than just in the AE w uh
in the AW universe. And then you know, coming to
WWE and just being able to be a legacy star
at a time where WWE is losing a lot of
their legacy stars to retirement, to injury and things like that.

(01:01:24):
Uh So he's been a real boon for WWE as well.
All Right, what's your take on that way, I'd like
to hear your your comparison of cmpunk and w W
and aw.

Speaker 3 (01:01:37):
No, No, that's what I was. I was.

Speaker 1 (01:01:38):
I was kind of powdering and taking into account what
you were saying, and kind of glancing at Derek Derek's
email again too, just to kind of see if there's anything.
I I think there's such a cloud with with punk
and his aw ron because of the the injury at
a bad moment and that he was sort of just
warming up, like, oh, I want to he said. You know,

(01:02:00):
I coined the term happy punk when he showed up.
It's like, is happy punk gonna be interesting? It's like
I want to wrestle Derby And.

Speaker 4 (01:02:06):
That's what bron Breaker is talking about right now. He
doesn't want happy punk exactly.

Speaker 3 (01:02:10):
Yes, yes, exactly so.

Speaker 1 (01:02:13):
But you know, Cee, I'm punk and mgf C, I'm
punkin Eddy Kingston see I'm punk and Moxie and the
whole Black Poke Combat Club those I mean, that's a
nice body of work. And he was better he was younger,
but you know, there's I'm woulda say there's like a
tipping point where he's unwatchable. But I think you're right
and I've said it too. It's just it seems like

(01:02:34):
there's just something a little more, a little more brittle,
a little less flow. He was never the greatest, most
graceful athlete. There were other attributes he had that made
him great, so he can kind of survive that. But
it does sort of feel like when you watch him now,
it's like, oh, he's what did Paul Beck say he
was good at at imitating a man event wrestler. He
feels like Phil Brooks is imitating Seampunk in his prime
a little bit when you watch him work, and so

(01:02:57):
you know, maybe he's trying to not get injured or
just whatever. But I think this CM Punk in WWE,
and I mean this is based on just that great
promo last week too, I think he's able to focus
more on being the best version of who CM punk

(01:03:17):
can be at this age without all the drama. And
in AW it always felt like, Okay, I'm going to
take a break from how angry and frustrated I am
with AW to try to focus on a match in
a promo, and in WE, you just feel like he's
a top guy who's got experience and he's earned the
respect of his peers and management and creative and he
just gets to go out there and do his thing.

(01:03:39):
The John Cena promo just you know, just emasculated and
eviscerated Punk, and I thought he was going to be
damaged from that.

Speaker 3 (01:03:46):
I think it's a testament to the.

Speaker 1 (01:03:48):
Bond Punk has with fans, and maybe a testament to
what smartphones do to our attention span that people are
just like, Okay, that happened, but let's just chance see
him Punk again and cheer for him. But man, like
that promo Brown Breaker last week, Punk is stepping up,
and he's doing so in a way where it's a
heated rivalry minus drama behind the scenes, causing even mg

(01:04:11):
off is an embrace a person behind the scenes, you know,
Like I like, maybe embrace is not the word. He
might justs he'd probably embrace that, actually, but but you.

Speaker 3 (01:04:19):
Know, he people.

Speaker 1 (01:04:21):
He rubs people the wrong way, and sometimes it's because
he's this young, successful, brash guy who doesn't play politics
the way other people.

Speaker 3 (01:04:28):
Do it, you know. So anyway, not to get off
on m.

Speaker 1 (01:04:32):
Job, but I think CM Punk in w B is
we're getting the best version of what he can be.
And on the MIC, he's worked with people who have
brought who have inspired him. I don't think he came
through imitating John Cena. That was kind of embarrassing. It
was cringey, a little bit of the singing the one

(01:04:56):
of the kids in succession at that corporate thing.

Speaker 3 (01:05:00):
People will know what I'm talking about.

Speaker 1 (01:05:01):
So yeah, I would give Punk's run in WWE. I
think the only thing I'm hedging on I'll bring it
up is just Punk had such an impact on a
w viewership on that rampage and brought a lot of
fans in because he had been gone so long, and
in WWE, he had already been around in AW for while,
so that novelty factor wasn't there, and that is an
X factor that plays into like historically, the newsworthiness of

(01:05:25):
it is, My God, is he going to be a
difference maker to take.

Speaker 3 (01:05:27):
AW to the next level.

Speaker 1 (01:05:28):
It's just sucks that politics and injuries derailed some of that.
So I would still say, just in terms of where Punk,
what Punk wants on his best of DVD, so to speak,
as best of Blu Ray, I think he'd want what
he did in WWE to dominate the limited time on
his best of DVD, And.

Speaker 4 (01:05:46):
It's almost poetic that this level that seampunk is at
right now, and the creative freedom that he has is
what he's always thought he deserved, and you can displine
with it or whatever not, but it's coming at the
tail end of his career, right Yeah, And that's kind
of unfortunate if you're a cmpunk fan, because you know,
a lot of what he fought for in WWE the

(01:06:07):
first time around is what he's getting now he's in
the nat event of WrestleMania. He has the creative freedom
to offer his perspective and be heard by people like
Triple H who did not listen to him the first
time around, and certainly Vince McMahon did not really buy
into cmpunk, you know, as this level of a guy,

(01:06:28):
and now here he is. He's gotten everything he wants
and he thinks he's deserved for his entire career, and
it's only at the tail end of his career that
he gets it.

Speaker 1 (01:06:37):
We're about to go to a commercial break. Why let's
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(01:07:00):
membership starts at nine dollars and ninety nine cents. Treat
yourself to a streamlined, ad un plug free listening experience
with a VIP or Patreon membership. Let's let's shift here
to your column coming up in the next person for
news letter. It's available soon on the VIP website and
of course Greg Park's Out Loud the podcast. You read

(01:07:21):
your column, so people, depending on how they like to
consume VIP content, can either read you or listen to you,
or do both.

Speaker 3 (01:07:27):
Gorilla Monson talk about your column and talk a little
bit about.

Speaker 10 (01:07:33):
How it changed anything, including maybe some extras that aren't
going to be in your column for VIP members, anecdotes
or anything like that, because I remember that, you know,
I was a critic of Gorilla months soon, because I immersed
myself in what used to be called the smart fan realm.

Speaker 1 (01:07:49):
The people are smart to the inner workings of the
business through newsletters. When Gorilla was this villain to is
sort of like Dusty Roads is a villain, and then
he ended up being beloved. But there's always a generation
behind you who's looking at them differently than you are,
and then you bump heads when y'all grow up, you know,
when everybody goes up and compares notes. There's there's aspects

(01:08:11):
of Gorilla I look back on very fondly, and I
find fascinating when, like, you know, Oldheimer's or even Paul
Haym it's Paul Hyman and old Timer I don't know,
talk about Gorilla like behind the scenes and you know
what you know, there's the on air version of him,
but then there's the behind the scenes version of him,
and what a player he was and how influential he was.

Speaker 3 (01:08:29):
So having a book written on him is great, so great.

Speaker 1 (01:08:31):
I'll just kind of throw to you, give me, give
me some talking points on that without totally you know,
just replicating your column talk talk a bit about him,
and especially like what changed if your perception changed on him?

Speaker 4 (01:08:44):
Yeah, so he there's a new book by Brian R. Solomon,
one of the foremost pro wrestling biographers out there, on
Gorilla Monsoon. I think it was just recently released and
I had a chance to read that and I reviewed
it for my column. And you know, people of my
generation grew up on Gorilla Monsoon as an announcer, and
that was really And Brian Solomon makes this point. I mean,

(01:09:06):
he was Gorilla was the soundtrack to our childhood. He
was there every Saturday morning on Superstars or on Challenge.
And you know when you go back and watch pay
per views, as I've done in college and stuff like that,
and it's all all the ones that Gorilla called, you know,
the famous nineteen ninety two rumble where he and Bobby
Heen and just were at their best. And you you

(01:09:28):
grow up and you find out that people hated him
on commentary, It's like, what, how how is that possible?
But that's the kind of that's kind of what nostalgia
does to your brain, right you you kind of compartmentalize
that in that era of listening to him, and you
can't really look objectively on it. And I'm not saying,
you know, he was he was bad. I don't necessarily

(01:09:50):
agree with that, but I can see why people did
not like him on commentary. But I don't agree with that.
But you mentioned you know, a big player behind the scenes.
And I think we knew the very basics of Gorilla
having partnership in the very early WWF with Vincent J. McMahon,
and then Vince Junior buys the company and Gorilla is

(01:10:13):
kind of a made man and Vince Junior takes care
of him and he kind of runs things. Gorilla runs
things behind the scenes at certain shows. But that was
just all very surface level. We didn't really have any
detail about the real inner workings of what exactly is
it that Gorilla did and what exactly how much ownership

(01:10:35):
he had, what was the what was the tug of
war like when it was time to sell, you know,
things like that, And that's really where this book comes
in handy. You know, I was too young to know
Gorilla as a wrestler. Again, you know, surface level stuff.
You knew he had feuds with guys like Bruno, Sam
Martino and Muhammad Ali, but beyond that, you didn't really

(01:10:58):
know what a major player he was in the industry,
what he did in other territories outside of New York.
And you get that here. You know, he walked Brian
Solomon walks through Gorilla's entire in ring career as best
he can. So you learn a lot about Gorilla the
wrestler that you probably didn't know. You learn a lot
about Gorilla Monsoon, the powerbroker within the WWF that you

(01:11:21):
probably didn't know, especially if you just know him as
the announcer Girla Monsoon and WWF President Gorilla Monsoon. So
there's a lot I learned from from those perspectives in
the book. And I thought, as a huge fan of
Gorilla and maybe this book is very niche in terms
of you know, who's going to really be interested enough
to read four hundred and ninety pages about Gorilla Monson.

(01:11:42):
It's probably people from my generation who loved him as
an announcer. But yeah, I learned a lot about him,
and I thought it lived up. If you're afraid that
your image of Gorilla mons Soon will be tarnished by
this book, do not fear because as Brian Salomon talks

(01:12:03):
to a lot of people and there are very few,
if any, that have anything bad to say about Guerrilla
Monster in the person. And I think that is that
is really ultimately what came across on television when he
was announcer. He he he seemed like a really honest
and true guy, and I think that's kind of what
came through in his real life as well.

Speaker 1 (01:12:24):
Let's let's transition this to something sort of related in
terms of generational perceptions and how they'll be looked back,
how they will be looked upon, uh later on, and
that is John Cina, who just retired.

Speaker 3 (01:12:37):
You and I haven't talked since the retirement match? What
what how have you felt?

Speaker 1 (01:12:44):
Ww is handled really big picture the whole retirement year,
but more to kind of hone in on on this
being a Curnavus show what they've done since Sina's retirement,
and and you know, having goother gloat for instance, we
can get into gooon through in this too.

Speaker 3 (01:12:59):
But trying to frame who John scene is. You know,
there's still little stats about him, little facts about him.

Speaker 1 (01:13:04):
You know, they're announcing, oh he signed or he announced
like I've did a I signed an ambassador deal, I've
signed on for years to come. He did the whole
media tour, doing a lot of interviews you know, kind
of seem fit the tone of the podcaster, So he
ended up getting kind of different different topics and a
different vibe from John depending on who who is interviewing him,
So yeah, gets I mean, throw it to you kind

(01:13:25):
of in a general broad sense. What what are some
of your reflections on John scene over the last couple
of weeks.

Speaker 3 (01:13:31):
I know, if he's handled it.

Speaker 1 (01:13:32):
And the impact as now it's it's over of the
retirement tour.

Speaker 4 (01:13:37):
So I watched Saturday Nights Made event on Sunday night,
and then I wrote Monday Morning a Parks's take for
PW Torch dot Com, where I was very positive on
how wwe handled not just the John scenea retirement match,
but really the last couple of weeks leading up to it.

(01:13:59):
And I had not been on social media a lot
to see the reaction in the aftermath, and I was
surprised to see how many people were so negative on
Scena losing there, and it kind of ironic given for
much of John Cena's career. People despised that he won
so much and yet here he is going out and

(01:14:20):
people were a gas that he would lose and tap
out to Gunther. So I didn't agree with a lot
of that criticism. I was surprised it was to the
level that it was, but I thought I kind of
encapsulated this in my Parks's take that there were some
major issues. Obviously the heel turn, and the heel turn

(01:14:42):
was great, the follow up was was awful. And then
the loss to brock Lessonar at SummerSlam where he just
gets demolished and there's really no follow up to that.
Those were I thought the two weak points and his
week points go, they're really weak, Like those are major,
those are not just like bumps in the road. I
thought those were major disappointments of his retirement run. Once

(01:15:04):
you got past that Summer Slam match with Lesnar, I
think everything after that, leading up to and including his
final match were really handled very well. I think the
interaction with Dominic Mysterio was a lot of fun and
it was, you know, seen it kind of giving back
to the next generation in ways that he hadn't done
a lot of during his retirement run. And then you know,

(01:15:25):
same thing with Gunther, right, you know, he loses to Gunther,
puts gun through over clean middle of the ring, taps out.
That helps gun throughout a lot, although it does feel
a bit repetitive since Gunther also beat Goldberg in his
retirement match, and I think if they knew that Gunther
was gonna beat John Cena maybe they would have given
someone else that that rub against Goldberg, but I thought

(01:15:46):
a lot of it was handled well. I don't love
Gunther coming out and gloating the way he has. I
don't know that that fits with his character.

Speaker 1 (01:15:56):
I think WWE feel different. He's been very prim and
proper white feed. I'm gonna go about my business. Yeah,
and now it's like this sort of gleeful, rubb it
in your face version. It is a new dimension, and
I'm still coming to terms with it. I get why
they're doing it, and I'm not against him expanding. I
think maybe he might get a little boring on one
dimension if he doesn't expand. But if you want it
to seem like it's not such a sharp turn, it

(01:16:16):
doesn't ring true or it's not believable.

Speaker 3 (01:16:18):
So yeah, I get while you're bringing that up.

Speaker 4 (01:16:21):
And it does feel like WWE is just doing that
to take advantage of the heal heat he's getting. It
doesn't I think if it was a true character turn,
an added dimension, I would be on board with that,
because you know, like you said, you don't want anyone
to get stale. There should be twists and turns in
a character's lifespan. On television, so I would be all
for that, but it does kind of feel like it's

(01:16:43):
more of we know we can get awesome heat for
gun Through, so let's just keep doing it. And that's
the reason, more so than any interest in making gun
Through a more three dimension or well rounded character.

Speaker 5 (01:16:58):
On Chris Maitland, I'm justin McClellans. We host Wrestling Coast
to Coast, where we scour the wrestling scene to find
the best wrestling from the smallest places.

Speaker 11 (01:17:06):
There are thousands of matches happening every week, so Wrestling
Coast to Coast is here to discover the men and
women who could be big time stars in a few years.

Speaker 5 (01:17:14):
There are plenty of podcasts de voters at ww and AW,
but what's happening in the armories and gymnasiums local wrestling
hotspots around the country.

Speaker 11 (01:17:22):
We can't wait to help you find the true hidden
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Speaker 5 (01:17:28):
Justin bemoaning dog pole fins.

Speaker 11 (01:17:30):
Don't forget my feudal search to see a blue thunderbomb
win a match?

Speaker 5 (01:17:33):
How can I like? The name says we cover the
hottest independent promotions from around the country, so such as
Prestige Action, West Coast Pro, Revolver, and Beyond Wrestling.

Speaker 11 (01:17:43):
Actually, Chris, I think we stick pretty much to wrestling.

Speaker 3 (01:17:45):
No, I mean Beyond Wrestling out of Worcester, Oh right.

Speaker 5 (01:17:48):
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Speaker 3 (01:18:12):
Anything else on seen to stand out?

Speaker 1 (01:18:15):
I mean he's you know, he's done a lot, a
lot more talking last month than he has He's We
have a story up on POE Torch about him having
an epiphany about how to talk to young guys, which
I actually thought was a really good point.

Speaker 3 (01:18:25):
You know, I was joking about, you know, doesn't he want.

Speaker 1 (01:18:27):
To take over an next but he is thinking about
I think he is genuine and thinking about how to
give back or be be the sage like voice that
I think he is sort of feels he's destined to be.
Sometimes you can be a little a little bit of
an eye roll or cringe when he talks, you know,
and he has his little platitudes of advice that he
thinks are super super profound, and there's just sort of

(01:18:48):
like basic stuff that you know, everybody's seen on their feeds.

Speaker 4 (01:18:52):
But he he's mastered the art of talking without saying
anything yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:18:57):
Yeah, and acting like he's saying something very profound that
people talking about one hundred years from now. And so
it's like there's nothing he says that's wrong. It's just
he says it like I have been thinking on a
plane flight about something and you won't believe it. But
I'm about to blow your mind. Try try if you
if you fail, try try again. I'm gonna live by that,
and like you could be a sitcom character. It just

(01:19:18):
shows up with like this thing that everybody's heard, you know,
when they were twelve, and it was something they you know,
that inspired them when they were twelve. But he's like
forty eight and it's like, whoa, my mind just blowing.

Speaker 3 (01:19:29):
So any that aside, because I don't think he's a
bad guy.

Speaker 1 (01:19:34):
I think he's interesting in his in as I said,
in his simplicity in certain ways, as a person. But
but I really liked his comment that he's thinking, you know,
I could, I could sit down and tell John Evan
slowed down.

Speaker 3 (01:19:47):
You can't keep this up forever.

Speaker 1 (01:19:48):
And all he's gonna do is say, old man, you're
saying that because you can't keep up. Every generation said that.
Seth Rolin's just saying that nxcally, I always tell that story,
you know, says I gotta get my spots in, and like, no,
you don't. You gotta tell the story. No, I canna
get my spots and that's what I'm gonna get on
the mat just because you can't do those spots anymore.
Don't tell me not to do him that that's been
a thing, you know that that's been ongoing for every generation.
But Seina's like, I need to stop talking for forty

(01:20:10):
five minutes straight to give advice to somebody. All right,
not stop, But like that's not the best approach. The
best approach just to ask some questions and get to
know him, because if I tell him slow down now,
he's going to be to be defiant and stubborn and
keep doing it to prove me wrong.

Speaker 3 (01:20:24):
And it initially.

Speaker 1 (01:20:25):
Puts him on a defensive stance, and I do think
Sina moving away from because he's Seena has been very
seen eccentric and I'm I've interacted with a lot of
communicator with a lot of wrestlers about Sena and different
people in wrestling Hoover Christina during his retirement year here
trying to get trying to understand a little bit better
and get a vibe on how he is now compared
to before and how is it before And he's not

(01:20:45):
like beloved, I mean he he was he you know
how Triple Ahlways got criticized for being sort of the
teacher's pat to vincick Man and always dating Stephanie and
all that.

Speaker 3 (01:20:54):
Like Sena was like an extension of vincick Man.

Speaker 1 (01:20:56):
He was ultimate brand, loyalty company guy, and in that
sense it distanced himself from some of the wrestlers who
just felt like he was almost management but purported to
be one of the boys. And that was a that's
how some people sign And he was just super super
super super hyper focused on promoting merch and promoting John Cena.

(01:21:16):
But if he can take that energy now that that's
kind of part of the past in his new version
of promoting himself is I'm the mentor, I'm the maker
of stars. I'm the person people can go to and
I will give you time. And it's not superficial. It's
not just for the cameras. It's not just so that
I can have a clip of me introducing some n
XT wrestlers for SENTA.

Speaker 3 (01:21:35):
It's made event, but it's real, behind the scenes stuff.
He said.

Speaker 1 (01:21:38):
What he said about John Evans makes sense. I want
to get to know these people. I want to get
to know these young wrestlers and figure out how I
can really contribute and not and listen more than I talk,
at least at first, so that there's a rapport and
I understand where they're coming from.

Speaker 3 (01:21:53):
And I like that.

Speaker 1 (01:21:54):
Like I think if Seene is serious about that, there's
obviously things he can give back what he can can't do, though,
Greg is not everybody's going to be a muscular guy
with his talking ability. Who fits Vince McMahon, Who's the
son the Vince mc mann never had, Who's going to
go out there and catch on with this gimmick? And
Vince's gonna go I can make money with that. Let's
roll with it.

Speaker 3 (01:22:14):
Like his story is not.

Speaker 1 (01:22:17):
You can't xerox it like, you know, like there was
a very specific set of circumstances, and I don't want
him to mistake his success or something that people just
follow his pattern, they'll have similar success. He's got to
differentiate the things that were unique to him versus things
that apply to the young wrestlers. But I like that's
what I think he's starting to maybe realize or or
devise a strategy for which is I need to know

(01:22:37):
who these wrestlers are before I can give them advice,
because I need to tailor my advice to each person
specifically that I talk to.

Speaker 4 (01:22:45):
It's why the coach the best coaches and managers in
sports are the guys who rode the bench right or
with the backup quarterbacks, is because it didn't come naturally
for them, so they can help coach better than you know,
guys who that just came naturally in a lot of ways.
That was John Cena. I am interested to see what

(01:23:06):
Sina's path looks like in terms of that giving back
aspect to WWE. Is it showing up to NXTTV a
couple times a year to help out is it? You know,
I don't think he's not a guy who I envisioned
being on TV and giving the rub to someone, just because,
as John Cena, you're gonna overshadow everyone you share a

(01:23:27):
ring with. And I don't think that's the best way
for him to give back for WWE. Financially, it may
be the best way to utilize him, but if they
really want him to help the next generation, I do
wonder what that's going to look like because Sena is
not going to have a lot of free time. He's
a movie star now, bonafide, and so that's where his
concentration is going to be. And the further he gets

(01:23:50):
away from his ring career, how do you keep tethered
to the wrestling business? Right, So it's gonna be interesting,
And I know he's He's already done more than I
will expected. You know, he was at that training camp
that Bailey held and he was there all day giving
advice to wrestlers, and I thought that was really cool
and really a selfless thing for him to do. He
didn't have to do that. So what John Cena's giving

(01:24:15):
back looks like. I'm interested in following that story in
terms of the next phase of his I don't even
want to call it a wrestling career, but his association
with the pro wrestling business.

Speaker 3 (01:24:28):
Yeah, yeah, it's a story to watch.

Speaker 7 (01:24:30):
All right.

Speaker 1 (01:24:30):
Let's wrap up here with the semi rapid fire topics,
just a few things. What kind of year is Dominic
gonna have in twenty twenty six, so you're from now, Greg,
what's the range of possibilities of where he goes?

Speaker 4 (01:24:45):
I think he's going to be a babyface at some
point in twenty twenty six. I think that I don't
see an end in sight for the crowd reacting positively
to him the way they have, especially in TRIPLEA. The
more he's used there, the more he seems to be
cheered in those events. So I think a babyface turn

(01:25:06):
is probably in his future, and that could be huge.
I mean if if he keeps a lot of what
he has now and just like has a tinge of babyface,
not turning into like a John Cena Welcome to Monday
Night Raw, you know, happy to be here in Pittsburgh.
You know, if he still keeps like the outer layers
of the heel, I think he could be super popular

(01:25:29):
and super over. It's hard for me to see him
as a a main eventor in perpetuity. I think he's
a guy who could visit there every once in a while,
but as a as a guy who is main eventing
pay per views six months out of the year. I

(01:25:50):
don't know if I see that, but I could. I mean,
he's I never would have seen this Dominic Mysterio four
years ago, right, it just was not It was not
on my radar. So maybe he can surprise me again.
But I do think twenty twenty six has the potential
to be big. You know, we come back to that
same old story that we were talking about earlier of

(01:26:10):
there are some gonna be some top guys who, if
not step aside completely, then really step back from appearing
as much as they have in recent times, and that
TV time, and that those rungs atop the WWE latter
will need to be filled by others. And I think

(01:26:31):
Dominic Mysterio has made the argument just as much as
anyone else has that he deserves that opportunity.

Speaker 1 (01:26:37):
And he's just so different, you know he. I mean,
that's the issue with Austin Theory, is he just yeah?

Speaker 4 (01:26:42):
I mean when you when you compare him to a
guy like Austin Theory, you know, when I said Austin
doesn't really have those standout trace does and have a
standout personality or a standout mic work. I mean, those
are all boxes that Dominic Masterio checks.

Speaker 1 (01:26:54):
That said, we may see Babyface dominic theory in two
and a half years, three half years headlining a summer
Slimer resuming against Austin tererry as He you know, I mean,
like I we can't roll that out when we look
at their age, their late twenties, they're they're are getting
or in for a serious push. And if they gain
traction and can and go on a trajectory, that's one

(01:27:16):
of the better case, realistic, but better case scenarios. You know,
they absolutely can end up, you know, being kind of
that next generation along with Brian Breaker. Speaking of which,
same question about bron Breaker, and talk a little bit
about the match of seampunk of what you expect at
the Ryano versus the Netflix Center versary show, and and
what are we saying about bron Breaker or you're from now?

(01:27:37):
I said, and and Nick Barbetti kind of interrupted or
interjected in a helpful way like what do you mean
you're not sold on bron Breaker? I'm like, well, I
think he's going to be a main event guy. But
I'm not sold on him being the generational centerpiece, game changing,
non non controversial choice to be the centerpiece of the company. Like, well,

(01:28:01):
I shouldn't say nonversial. Everybody's controversial, you know when they
hurt the doc choice John Cena was Roman Rains wasn't Away.
I guess Steve, Steve Austin wasn't. He was just baked
in controversial. But you know what I mean, Like, I
don't know that he's going to be his generations Bruno, Hulk, Austin,
Sina Rains. I'm not there yet. He might be more
Batista or Brett, you know, like, yeah, he went there,

(01:28:24):
but he wasn't a Randy even so I'm not sure.
But it's part of what I really like about this
next year coming up is I think it is a
year where there's could be efforts made to define that
next generation. And so how are you feeling about what
Breaker's showing you on the microphone? Not how WW tells
you should feel about, but how you really feel about it.

Speaker 4 (01:28:44):
No, I think I think he's got at least hit
the minimum, if not clear that bar for Mike work
for a main inventor, So I'm not I'm not concerned
about that. Is he perfect? Does he nail it one
hundred percent every time out? No, Nor do I think
that necessary should be the standard for someone in his position,
as he's kind of working through, kind of being thrust

(01:29:06):
into this role unexpectedly at this point, with Seth Rollins's
injury and all of a sudden, has to do a
lot of the heavy lifting that maybe was not anticipated
by him or WWE at this point. So I like
what I've seen from him. I would not be surprised
if he beat cmpunk for the title on the on

(01:29:26):
the Netflix anniversary episode of Raw. That would not shock me.
I think that it would add a different dimension to
the vision and it would give a little bit more
juice to them. You know, we talk about how they
don't have the Seth Rollins there. They've got Brown Breaker
and Bronson Reid. They're both on the same level, which

(01:29:48):
has its pluses, but the fact that neither of them
is kind of the alpha over the other is a
little bit of a minus. So I think giving Breaker
the title, giving him that win in a high profile
situation over cmpunk, would lift to that alpha status within
the group, and I think that's important to have when
you have a faction, is to have a clear leader. Yes,

(01:30:09):
there are pluses to having Read and break her at
the same level, but there are also advantages to having
one person who is above and beyond the star of
the group. And that's what bron Breaker can be and
I think could be if he beats Cumpunk on that
episode of Raw.

Speaker 1 (01:30:32):
You don't have to wait for the way Keller Prog
Wrestling post show to find out what I thought of
Monday Night Raw and SmackDown. Each week, you can check
out my reports that are updated live throughout Raw and
SmackDown at pwtorch dot com. My written report will tell
you what's happening in detail in case you missed the show,
and it'll also analyze key segments and give my random
thoughts quips on what I am watching as it airs.

(01:30:54):
So check it out every Monday night and Tuesday night
at pewtorch dot com. That also apply to WWE pay perviews.
I cover those live at pw torch dot com with
a detailed written report with star ratings, and of course
you can find other TV reports from other contributors to
pw torch such as nxt roh Impact Wrestling, and more.
Check it out pw torch dot com, your first stop

(01:31:16):
for TV and pay per views written reports?

Speaker 3 (01:31:28):
Is bron Breaker.

Speaker 1 (01:31:31):
The the I'm trying to not make it impossible to
say yes this, but like, is he a near ideal
person to be age? His physical stability, his appearance, his athleticism,
his charisma for the moment in time, and as a
contrast too came before him. If you could like the thing,
if you could build the next main event star for

(01:31:54):
twenty twenty six, twenty seven, twenty eight, how does Breaker
fit that? But also how is he not that? And
how big of a deal is that? As Paul Hayman
storyline wise touts him the way Paul Hayman touted Steve
Austin to me, you know thirty five years ago when
he was a the Dangerous Alliance and was touting him
or almost when he was touting him as like he's
going to be the next star. And then of course

(01:32:15):
Eric Bischoff family, she said, nobody thought to he, you
boss would be the star he is. I'm like, oh,
I got a quote from Paul Hayman here, you know,
five years ago or five years before he broke out,
seve years were broke out saying he was so yeah,
how much he is Breaker the guy that you would
build from scratch, or how would you make that guy
different than bron Breaker? Maybe that's even a better question.

Speaker 4 (01:32:32):
I think bron Breaker is actually a really good and
I never thought of it this way a good contrast
to Cody Rhodes. If you're saying that Cody Rhoads is
kind of taking over and stepping into that void left
by Roman Reigns, and you're anticipating bron Breaker being the
guy who eventually takes over that role from Cody Rhodes,

(01:32:52):
you know, it's kind of I go back to the
manager and coach scenario, where usually if you have a
head coach that's an offensive head coach, he replaced him
with a defensive head coach who's diametrically opposite in a
lot of ways of that previous coach. You do that
extreme shift, and I don't think there's anything wrong with
that in replacing your top star. I think Cody Rhodes

(01:33:14):
is the prim and proper suit wearing champion works for
him because it feels authentic to who he is. And
then you've got this kind of rampaging bron Breaker, who
I can't imagine necessarily wearing a suit and tie every
week to raw and carrying a championship belt. And I
think that's good to have that change and have that
shift from one to the next, so it doesn't feel

(01:33:35):
like you just have this. And this is what a
complaint of vincement Mann was for a while. You have
this carbon copy when he had hul COVID. He tried
to find a carbon copy of Hull coked in The
Ultimate Warrior. You know, he tried to find those carbon
copies of what he knew would work. And the reality
is there's a very broad definition of who can be

(01:33:56):
a top star within a company, and we're seeing that.
So I think is a good thing that Breaker is
so different than Cody Roads. He's still rougher on the edges.
I think you want to get some of that stuff
polished up. From the entering point of view, we've seen
him a couple of times come really close to injury
just because of I don't know that it's recklessness, but
it's maybe him moving too fast and needing to slow
down a little bit and not slow down in the

(01:34:19):
way that old timers talk about wrestlers needing to slow
down and grab a hole.

Speaker 3 (01:34:22):
A bit, just like he has a lead foot on
the pedal.

Speaker 4 (01:34:24):
Sometimes he has a frantic pace, and that that is,
you know, worrisome for future injuries, and if you're gonna
be a top star, you've got to be careful about that. Promos,
as we've talked about, are not one hundred percent of
the way there yet. He's not. He doesn't operate with
the same smooth cadence that a lot of top stars do.

(01:34:46):
But I think in terms of presence, in terms of
meeting the minimum requirements of innering work and promos and
stuff like that, he certainly does that. Now it's more
about kind of standing down those rough edges to make
him e even better.

Speaker 1 (01:35:02):
What kind of year is Cody Road's going to have,
because he I think I'll frame it this way. I
think twenty twenty six is gonna define whether he was
the top star, the top top guy of this post
Roman Reigns bloodline era, or a transitional placeholder who got
peaked a little bit old, a little bit older than ideal,

(01:35:25):
and ended up in the crosshairs of an agenda of
Duayne Johnson and the sort of all consuming retirement tour
of John Cena and then a little fidgetiness by Paula
Beck to try to create the next big star, and
so Cody didn't really have that three four year stretch where.

Speaker 3 (01:35:46):
It was like, we're in the Cody Roads business.

Speaker 1 (01:35:48):
And I think twenty twenty six is a chance to
is going to be kind of the where we find
out where his place in history is going to be.
He's going to be seen as successful in whatever he did.
But was he a successful bridge to the next era
or was he an era unto itself?

Speaker 4 (01:36:05):
I think his WrestleMania went over Roman Reigns, and the
culmination of that year's long story made him an era
unto himself. Okay, I think that was kind of really
the moment where it solidified for him. And so has
he been the focus in the same way that Roman
Reigns was the focus for all those years, the same

(01:36:27):
way that John Cena was the focus for all these years. No,
But I also think the roster is a lot deeper
now than it was at a lot of points during
John Cena's reign, where they had no choice but to
focus on him and solely him as the star. Within
the company and to a certain extent, Roman Reigns during
his time on top it was either again the roster

(01:36:49):
was a little thinner, but also they were kind of
desperately trying to make him the top star, and so
they needed to focus on him a lot more because
they needed to get him old, and they needed to tinker,
and they tinkered a lot with him in terms of
presenting him as a as a palatable top star to
the general populace of WWE fans. Cody came in already

(01:37:14):
self assured. He came in already as kind of a
finished product, and he didn't need that tinkering the way
that Roman Reigns did to be presented as a top star.
So the roster much deeper now than it was, So
Cody Rhodes doesn't need to be the focus in the
way that John Cena needed to be the focus for

(01:37:34):
WWE to be successful, for them to draw fans to
the arenas, for them to get merchandise numbers. The wealth
has spread much more evenly in WWE now, and I
think that's a smart way of doing business, even if
it cost you someone who is seen necessarily as the
top star. The same way previous generations were.

Speaker 3 (01:37:54):
Along those lines.

Speaker 1 (01:37:55):
Is the well spread too thin or too evenly in
the women's division in WWE?

Speaker 3 (01:38:00):
Between Ron SmackDown?

Speaker 1 (01:38:01):
Should twenty twenty five have been the year of Rhea
Ripley or Tiffany Stratton or Jade Cargill or Bianca Bellaire,
Like we enter twenty twenty six, and I don't know
a year from now who if we're going to be
looking at just another ensemble, or if we're gonna look
back at twenty twenty five as sort of a holding
pattern before they just strapped a rocket to two or

(01:38:24):
three or four of them, because you have, you know,
Bailey being relevant in her own way, kind of taken
on that veteran mentor role storyline, and in reality, you
have Becky Lynch, you know, working also with some younger
talent now Maxine Duprix, and they're trying to turn her
into something valuable and steady on that roster. But you

(01:38:45):
also have Tiffany and Jade who are supposed to be
rising stars, and Rhea Ripley, who you could argue should
be just the centerpiece above and beyond all, but they're
not really doing that. They're not burying her or by
any means, but they're not signaling to people, Oh, this
is just her era. So what shakes out in twenty
twenty six with a really nice depth chart, but it's

(01:39:05):
not clear, you know, where Charlotte fits in relative to Tiffany,
relative to Jade, relative to Bianca, relative to Rhea, relative
to Eosky, who they're were really leaning on and on
and on.

Speaker 4 (01:39:17):
I think it's just philosophically and historically, WWE has always
had a top men star, whereas the women has always
been more of an ensemble. You know, even with Charlotte
Flair as someone who a lot of people pointed to
as the top star in the division, you still had
Becky Lynch who was strong. You had Sasha Banks, who
was strong and at times even more popular than Charlotte

(01:39:39):
Flair as a top star. So I think it's just
inherent in the way WWE sees the division is that
they don't need to create a top star with the
women in the same way that you kind of do
with the men. You want to tell your audience, Okay,
here's our top male star, and everything is kind of
built around that. And they've done that with Cody, although,

(01:40:00):
as I argued, it's a little bit more of an
ensemble than it has been in previous generations when top
stars have been curated. I don't know that they look
at the women's division the same way in terms of
needing to build someone who is above and beyond. And
I think that's a negative in some ways, because I
think you missed the boat with somebody like Rhea Ripley,
who you wonder if they're already that time is passed

(01:40:22):
of being able to capitalize on her as the top
stars the way I know you and I discussed at
the Netflix premiere in January of last year, and now
we're almost a year on from that, and she's still
getting really good reactions. But I can't say that she's
far in a way that the best booked women's wrestler.
Or if I was to tune in to RAW as

(01:40:46):
a new viewer, I wouldn't necessarily rank Rhea Ripley number
one in terms of the top star of the division
based on how I see TV play out each week.
So yeah, they could have missed the boat on that,
But I do think you know the depth Again, I
look at you know, Rhea Ripley and Eosky and Osca
and the focus that they're giving the tag team division

(01:41:08):
in the women's which is never it's always been an afterthought.
And they've done a good job even booking the secondary
titles with Chelsea Green over on SmackDown being super entertaining
in her role and WWE really is very clear that
they're enjoying, you know, putting together storylines and segments for
Chelsea Green. She gets a lot of them, even when
she rarely wrestles, and I think having that kind of

(01:41:32):
character to sort of break things up within the division
is smart and she's very good at it. So a
lot of talented women in a lot of different ways,
but you don't have that one top star. And it
almost seems by design.

Speaker 1 (01:41:45):
I know that that crossed my mind is like is
it by design? And if so, is it so nobody
has too much power? Or is it by design because
they just like interchangeable parts, keeping things fresh. And I mean,
one thing that's nice about this, if it is by design,
there is a great diversity in terms of the characters
and their background and their ages and their looks and

(01:42:06):
their personalities that there is somebody for everybody to really
latch onto them go that's who I'm rooting for Well,
you know, you might be into Chelsea Green or Ria
Ripley might be your hero, or you know, Ni Jackson
is this badass or Charlotte as the man wrestling for
her brother Reed and there's a SAFT spot yeah for
her And what you know? I mean I could have

(01:42:27):
literally picked five other people equal to that batch that
that are And.

Speaker 4 (01:42:31):
Now you've got last legend being introduced to the mix.
And she has grown by leafs and bounds for when
she first started appearing on NXT TV.

Speaker 3 (01:42:38):
That's right, yep.

Speaker 12 (01:42:45):
I'm Kelly Wells, host of pw T Talks NXT, the
longest running NXT podcast anywhere. Join me along with Nate Lindberg,
Bruce Lee, Hazelwood and special guests, live every Tuesday night,
just minutes after NXT where we cover the good, the bad,
and the ugly on the way to becoming a star
in WWE. Check us out live on YouTube or stream

(01:43:05):
later wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 1 (01:43:17):
How about aw's women's division? The same question ensemble should
Tony Storm be the centerpiece?

Speaker 4 (01:43:23):
Is?

Speaker 3 (01:43:23):
What are they doing with Mercedes Monee? She's losing her titles?

Speaker 1 (01:43:26):
Will she be a babyface by the end of twenty
twenty six, What do you think of their attempt to
try to solidify Chris Statlander as a bonafide top tier
person that you can kind of build storylines around. Like, Yeah,
it's just similar discussion on them.

Speaker 4 (01:43:43):
I think it's going to be an interesting year for
the women's division in AW because of Chris Statlander being
the champion. And it's very clear that Tony Kahan has
pushed all his chips in on Chris Statlander. She's gotten
some really big wins over Tony Storm and Mercedes Manet,
which are the top two stars of the division for
the last couple of years, and Statlander beats them both

(01:44:04):
in a very short amount of time. And so there's
really no hedging here on Tony Kahn's part. He is
all in on Chris Statlander, and I think the jury
is still out on her. I think she brings a
lot to the table, but again, it's sort of that
same conversation with bron Breaker, where there's some edges that
need to be smoothed out. And I think you could

(01:44:24):
make the argument that, given how often she's been on
TV over the last few years, she's not the same
as bron Breaker. Right, She's she's not been you know,
he's been a national TV presence for on the main
roster for a comparatively short amount of time. She's been
on TV for much of aw's existence. And so maybe
if those edges aren't smooth out, now, that's just who

(01:44:44):
she is and maybe she's a little bit awkward and
and maybe that's just we have to accept that, and
maybe that's part of the charm that a lot of
people see in her. So there's that, you know, what
happens with Britt Baker. You know, she's been off TV
for a while. There's Tony Kahan speaks highly of her
when he gets asked about her, But there's really it's

(01:45:05):
just kind of a mysterious situation.

Speaker 3 (01:45:06):
There doesn't seem to be anybody speak of everybody.

Speaker 1 (01:45:09):
He does he and you have to look for the
code language, and I think there's some code language to dissect,
okay interpret in the way he talks. And that's based
on me having some insight into what kind of led
to her being pulled from TV and how people felt
about that.

Speaker 3 (01:45:24):
So yeah, so I mean that, then.

Speaker 4 (01:45:27):
What happens in twenty twenty six to brid Baker? Does
she show back up in AW? Does she go to WWE?
Does she just not appear at all? And and that's
going to be interesting because I do think she has
a lot of cache a still, She's got a high
level of name value, especially amongst AW fans, and so
her not being there certainly hurts the depth. You know,

(01:45:51):
can Jamie Hayter kind of regain her her footing? What
happens that the tag team titles have just been established
with Will and Nightingale and and name is blanking me
right here, Harley Cameron, And so I'm wondering if there's
a the continued focus on the tag division, what does

(01:46:13):
that look like? How does AW balance the focus on
the women's singles division and the women's tag division. You know,
one of the criticisms that AW has faced during its
time is they don't give enough TV time to the women.
I haven't heard that criticism much lately, but it is
a different division now within the women's division that they're
going to have to find time for on television. So

(01:46:36):
just you know, those are some key questions and storylines
and what happens to Tony Storm. Does she evolve as
a character in twenty twenty six or does she continue
writing out the current iteration of who she is? I
think that's a big one because she is along with
Mercedes Manet, I think I don't think Chris Statlander has
reached their tier of stardom within the women's division. I

(01:46:58):
think people still look at Tony's and Mercedes Manet as
one to two in whatever order you want to put
them in. So I think people are gonna be looking
at Tony Storm and say, Okay, she evolved into this
great character, but can she evolve again once that character
has run its course? And I think twenty twenty six
might be the year that people start looking to her
and say, Okay, what else do you have? How does

(01:47:20):
this character change beyond who she is now? Because I
think we all looked at this character as having a
shelf life. You know, it's very gimmicky, and those gimmicky
characters tend to run out of steam sooner than the
characters that are more tethered to real life. So is
she able to pivot from that character? Maybe not a
wholesale character change, but is she able to change the

(01:47:43):
character enough to where it's going to feel compelling and
new again? And I think that might be of all
the storylines that I'm watching in the women's division of
twenty twenty six for AW, that might be the one
I'm watching the closest.

Speaker 1 (01:47:57):
And my final topic for WE is TNA. What are
you saying or from now about TNA as they moved
to AMC next month.

Speaker 4 (01:48:04):
Oh, they're the one that could change the most of
AW ANDWWE. I think AW and WWE are who they are,
They're on their stations, they're getting their money. TNA's moving
to AMC next month, and that is a big jump
for them, and so they have a lot to prove.
There should be a chip on their shoulder. They want
to really push AW as a number two, and for

(01:48:24):
the first time, they really have the means to do
it because they're going to be on a cable network
that is, if not equal to, then very close to
equal to the cable networks that AW runs on every week.
So this is their time to really buckle in, tighten
their bootstraps, and put their best foot forward. They haven't

(01:48:44):
had an opportunity like this in a long time, probably
since they were on Spike TV all those years ago,
so they may be out of practice a little bit there.
They may be flexing muscles they haven't used in a
while from a company standpoint, and I know that there's
not a lot left from this company that was around
in their Spike TV days to kind of draw an
inspiration from. But I am interested to see what the

(01:49:08):
product looks like in December of twenty twenty six, the
next time we get together a year from now, Wade,
we'll get together before then. But you know, when we
get together in December twenty twenty six and look back
on TNA's year, I think WWE will look the same
as a product. I think aw Wi look the same
as a product. I think TNA has the potential to

(01:49:29):
look very different now it do they that's the question?

Speaker 3 (01:49:33):
Well, Champion ring with kaz or.

Speaker 4 (01:49:38):
Something, but can they compete for more compelling talent than
they have now in ways that maybe financially they weren't
able to when they were running on Access TV And
that could change the makeup of their roster, which could
end up changing you know, the product whole cloth really
in a year or.

Speaker 1 (01:49:59):
Do they just or do they just stay exactly the same?
I mean, Dallas your talk, because I think there's validity
to all of that, But they also I mean, someone
brought us up this.

Speaker 4 (01:50:07):
I mean, it's probably more likely that they don't change
in any grand fashion for sure.

Speaker 3 (01:50:13):
Yeah, and someone in teenage said, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:50:15):
Maybe they don't change at all, they just lose less money,
Like this budget is just well, now we don't have
to lose so much money as opposed to now we
have all this money to spend. It's not so much
money from AMC that it's like game changing in that way,
so you know, I just you know, temper expectations. But
even that is, Hey, more people with whatever kind of
cable package they have have access to the show almost

(01:50:37):
double than roughly doubled and and did before. And that's
kind of cool, Like it's a it has it's an
up and down product. It's not at its apex right now,
but it's an alternative first run show that suddenly people
will have more, you know, more access to.

Speaker 3 (01:50:51):
Than they did.

Speaker 1 (01:50:52):
And and yeah, in that sense, I mean, I don't
know how that fits into you know, they could change
more than a wwwwe that would be us change. But
in terms of wrestling fans pattern of what they watch
and what they keep an eye on, I mean, it
is and it is a legit added option for you know,
a lot more hundreds of thousands of people. Yeah, for sure, potentially. Yeah,

(01:51:13):
out there pretty good. Way Keller Podcast at gmail dot com.
Keep sending emails in. Like I said, I forget enough.
We'll do some separate mail bag shows.

Speaker 3 (01:51:22):
Greg.

Speaker 1 (01:51:23):
Thank you so much pleasure running down all these topics
with you. Is there anything else that came to mind
while we were doing this that that you want to
sneak in before we do, you know, say goodbye here?

Speaker 4 (01:51:31):
No, I think that's I think that's about it.

Speaker 1 (01:51:33):
Yeah, good well, thanks so much, Merry Christmas, enjoy the
rest of your week, Happy New Year.

Speaker 3 (01:51:38):
Also, and saying to everybody listening.

Speaker 1 (01:51:58):
Invite you to email the show feedback or questions or comments.
That email address is Wadekeller Podcast at ptwtorch dot com.
That's Wadkeller Podcast at PW toorch dot com. Also welcome
your feedback on Twitter. Even follow us on Twitter at
PW Torch and follow me at the Wadekeller That's at
PW Torch and at the Wadekeller.

Speaker 13 (01:52:21):
Searching for more great pro wrestling talk, then join me
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(01:52:42):
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Speaker 1 (01:52:52):
Thanks for listening to our podcast. Did you know we
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Speaker 4 (01:54:17):
See You in the Paradise.

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Speaker 3 (01:54:52):
Thank you so much.

Speaker 6 (01:54:56):
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