NEW FLAGSHIP: Keller & Powell discuss AJ Lee's big impact on her return, Jey-Knight-Jimmy, Wardlow injury, Danielson on commentary

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Give yourself a reason to look forward to. Go into
the mailbox each week with a PW Torch newsletter paper copy.
Subscription details at PW torch dot com slash paper Copy.
It's twelve pages every week packed with my TV reports,
along with exclusive features such as my cover story on
the top story of the week, our pay per view
roundtable reviews from the Torch staff, exclusive feature length columns

(00:21):
from Greg Parks, Rich Fan, Sean Radikin, Alan Coonahan and
Zach Hadorn, Torch Talk transcripts, the latest news and more.
PW torch dot com slash paper Copy. Take a break
from screen time and settle in every week with the
megadosup wrestling news and analysis. With a Pro Wrestling Torch
Newsletter paper copy edition. In the year twenty twenty two,

(00:43):
you can get a full year of home delivery for
just ninety nine dollars, or try us for an eight
week trial subscription. PW torch dot com Slash paper Copy.

Speaker 2 (01:06):
Now PW Torch and Spreaker bring you the Wade Killer
Pro Wrestling Podcast. It's time for the weekly flagship talking
current events in pro wrestling.

Speaker 1 (01:21):
Jason, did you know that the biggest female professional wrestler
of the past twenty five years was a jay Lee
because I didn't until this last week.

Speaker 3 (01:30):
No, no, I never saw it that way. I always
liked Ajle, but I didn't. I didn't see it that way.

Speaker 1 (01:35):
Yeah no, And I'm you know, I'm I don't know,
facetious as a word, but like you would think from
the crowd reaction of course at Chicago, se Umpunk territory,
big return opposing obnoxious, Heal, Becking Lynch. All the pieces
were in place, you know, like punk Gon for so long.
People like to be part of a big return in history.
And I was there when but Monday, you know, carried over.
At first, it's a little worried. It didn't seem like
you got a big pop skipping out and then it

(01:56):
picked up, so you know, sometimes crowd miking or whatever
is the But yea, she held court and did her thing.
You mentioned, like, you know, kind of have joking like no, oh,
show wasn't that big of a deal. But that was
kind of my people like, oh, it's Agle coming back,
and I'm like, I don't know if it's going to
be that big avideal. I mean, she was around from
like what twenty eleven to twenty fifteen to six months
off was a GM for a while, wasn't really part

(02:19):
of the boom period of women's wrestling, just sort of
a you know, in influential and transitionary player. Not great
in the ring, you know, but fine. And so I
was like, like what it just felt like she's being overhyped.
And again, no dis on it, no disrespect to her.
But some people were just like, this would be the
biggest thing ever. And I'm watching this and I'm like,

(02:39):
this is one of the biggest things ever right now, like,
way bigger than Nicki Balach coming back, and Nicki was
pushed longer and more prominently in ad reality shows. What
is going on with aj Lee? And do you have
any anything to add or augment or push back on
regarding kind of my framing of her, And is your
kind of attitude towards people anticipating a return similar to mine?

Speaker 4 (02:58):
It is.

Speaker 3 (02:59):
Yeah, I can't really push back on anything you said
there because the level of interest surprises me. I mean, like,
you say, you're there, it's cool, You're part of history,
I guess, But the I guess that the part that
gets me is just that so many younger people are
well aware. I mean, it's been ten years, and I
get like, if it's part of your childhood, if you're

(03:19):
of a certain age, but even younger. So I don't
know if it's people that are just like, yeah, I
don't know who she is, but everyone else seems to know,
so I'm gonna cheer too, or if they've actually put
in the work and gone back and watched.

Speaker 4 (03:31):
I'm not I have no idea. You know, the fans
are really passionate for it.

Speaker 1 (03:35):
She she's thirty eight, but she just looks like she
looked so she comes out and she just has a
bit of an aura, a bit of a confidence. Yeah,
she gets away with things that could totally flop with
other wrestlers, like the skipping to the ring being kind
of cute see striking poses, and but she makes it
work because there's a self awareness that it's not a

(03:58):
parody but it is. There's a some awareness of the
of kind of how she's acting. And it's to send him,
It's to send a message to the world and the public.
This is my attitude. I'm a little a little bit alternative,
but also strong will. Yeah, there's just there's this weird
magic formula and I opened up the raw post show

(04:20):
last night on our stream live on YouTube and then
of course distributed on The Way Keller Post Show, and
I was like, she was feels like she was dropped
into the air she belongs in right now.

Speaker 4 (04:30):
Yeah, I like that.

Speaker 3 (04:33):
It's I think I always liked about the character is
the unpredictability, because I think she works either way as
a baby face or a heel. The crazy is she
puts it. If she does something out of the blue,
it fits with the character, like oh didn't see that coming.
If she attacks somebody you weren't expecting. So there's different

(04:55):
ways that can go about it, kind of like we've
always said with with Cody and Brandy, when the time comes,
he's a hell of a heel run.

Speaker 4 (05:02):
Same thing here. I mean, no time soon, but with
these two with punk and that's gonna be fun.

Speaker 1 (05:09):
Yeah, you know, I hadn't really been thinking about that,
but once, yeah, once this run plays out, those two,
I mean, because you don't want to be copycat Becky
and Seth. So it's got to be a long way
down the line. But you know, if a year from now,
a year and a half from now, they really and

(05:30):
I think some people want Punk to turn sooner. But
I think Aja actually is breathing some life into Punk's act.
Not that he was ice cold or anything like that,
but you know, the scene of promo I think hurt him.
It hurt him less than I thought, you know, just
like but you know a lot of a lot of
times things come out about somebody and you think that's
the end of them, and it's not, and we just
move on and this short attention span world. But I
think Punk's brand was heard a bit. I think he

(05:52):
looked kind of dour about things for a couple of
weeks and then and then you know, picked it up
and seemed a little inspired again. Maybe aj Lee Deale
was part of it, having her around and the paycheck
and the support. But it's been fun in the just
a small sample we've had seeing them play off each other.
It kind of sometimes you know, you know someone and

(06:12):
then you meet their spouse, they're like, oh, oh, now
they make even more sense to me, you know, like
and and I think with with Punk and a j
there's there's something there. You know, they've been together long enough,
so yeah, I can't put my finger on it. Just
so far, it seems like it's it's working and AJ,
you know, talking about mental health and she's been through
a lot. She seems like a grown up and and

(06:34):
I love that message.

Speaker 4 (06:35):
That's really cool. I like that she was able to
get that in.

Speaker 1 (06:38):
Yeah for sure. And and you know, crowd chatting therapy
like yeah, I just know, I know a little worried
that that's going to be a thing like yes, chance,
and I don't want that to be a gimmick. I
think it was good, a good message this week. It landed.
It was fun, But I'm worried WB is going to
be like Rondo something, let's market t shirts therapy, therapy
and it and they kind of turned something that's very

(06:59):
serious and can be life changing or life saving into
some sort of like trite marketing gimmick that where it
loses some of its it's punch. But we'll see. So yeah,
So storyline wise, so a punk in AJ feuding with
Becky and Seth. I think I said it's good for
Punk to be around AJ, And I think it's good

(07:19):
for AJ to be on Punk because he's a big name.
But what about Seth and Becky and you know, what's
the synergy so far between them?

Speaker 4 (07:28):
Do you think well, I want to back up really
quick for two quick things.

Speaker 3 (07:31):
Number One, if we're going to get therapy T shirts,
that better lead to the return of doctor Shelby in
some factor.

Speaker 4 (07:37):
The other thing, and on a more.

Speaker 3 (07:39):
Serious note, Okay, it's great right now for Punk and
AJ could be together. What happens when this program is gone?
Do they stay together? Does that get tired in a hurry?
We saw that happen with Becky and Seth as babyfaces,
where it's just like people didn't want that. So right
now they have great foils and I don't think there's

(07:59):
getting any problem, but it is.

Speaker 4 (08:01):
You know, it's only gonna last for so long. And
then I am curious to see just how they play this.
If it's a he kind of goes and does her
thing in the women's division and he does his, and
they cross over a little bit here and there, or Yeah,
there's different ways that could go. As far as Becky
and Seth. This is definitely helping Becky. Becky has been
doing great work with babyfaces that are not that over.

(08:24):
She finally has somebody where she doesn't have to set
them up with everything, and then the baby face reaction
is going to be strong.

Speaker 3 (08:31):
So she's I just thought she was out there in
a lot of ways carrying the segment a j was
really good. But I thought Becky Lynch just being as
over the top and frantic as she was and upset
about her title belt being taken and all of that.
I just thought she did a hell of a job.

Speaker 1 (08:46):
It was a good just the introductory shot of her
in Seth and she's like, get this camera out of
my face, like you just she's cartoonish, but not to
a point where she crosses a line into like self parody. Yeah,
it's just it's just kind of I know, I was
just talking to you off there, like Eric Young see
him at the TENA Tapans last week, Like Eric Young
is like super cartoonish, but I thought in a way

(09:08):
that was really effective with a live crowd and getting heat,
you know, over over the top, but within acceptable parameters
in pro wrestling.

Speaker 3 (09:16):
Yeah, yeah, definitely. And as far as Seth, I mean,
I think kind of more of the same, But I
like he and Becky being together as heels. I think
that's fun. And I think Seth with her kind of
being the one that is uh snapping right now and

(09:39):
him kind of trying to play the calm husband. There's
some heat in that too, were just like you know, he's, uh,
he's trying to play the nice guy with her because
he's worried about Yeah, there's definitely some heat there. Yeah,
this is uh. I was really struggling to think, can
you think of a better or a bigger I should
say mixed tag match?

Speaker 1 (09:57):
Oh, gorgeous Tommy Garvin and Precious against Sunshine and Chris Adams.

Speaker 3 (10:06):
Now, I do remember that that was big and the
only one that like Ronda Rousey? Was it Hunter and
Staff against Rondon?

Speaker 4 (10:15):
Was it? Was it? Kurt?

Speaker 1 (10:18):
I think it was, But now I need to know
Stephanie and Hunter versus Ronda and yeah, Kurt Angle, Yeah, okay,
good call yep.

Speaker 3 (10:30):
And that was wrestling, Mandy, I believe, and that was big.
But there's something about this that it really popped right now.

Speaker 1 (10:36):
Yeah, No, I'm I'm with you in terms of what
happens later. And I think I think I like the
idea of Punk and aj going off on their own
and doing their own thing after this feud is over,
and then eventually like coming back around where you do
Becky and aj Lee and Seth and Punk and singles
matches on a bigger stage.

Speaker 3 (10:56):
Yeah, do we know have you heard anything as far
as like what her contractual status is. I know it
was reported by an outlet that I'm just not familiar
with that that she has a fairly long term deal
for full time kind of a deal.

Speaker 4 (11:09):
But like I said, I just wasn't familiar with the.

Speaker 1 (11:11):
Outmet that's my understanding. But it is through secondhand, widespread
secondhand reporting and the clip that you know was up
with her signing with Hunter and then reporting that it's
more than a short term deal.

Speaker 4 (11:23):
Okay, that's uh.

Speaker 3 (11:24):
That one surprised me a little bit because she does
have that very successful writing career. But I mean maybe
just with the schedule they work now, she can bounce
both well.

Speaker 1 (11:33):
I think they like what they see and if she's
having fun, she looks like she's in great shape, they
can make it work.

Speaker 4 (11:38):
Yeah. Yep.

Speaker 1 (11:39):
Yeah, So Seth and Punk have been feuding. Are we
on three or four years now?

Speaker 4 (11:48):
Boys?

Speaker 1 (11:48):
Or what does it feel like? Is this? Does this
freshen it up enough? But is it time after Russe
of Palusa to move on or do you think they're
gonna be like, let's just get more out of this
because we've injected even more energy into it.

Speaker 3 (12:03):
Right now, I feel like they can go back to
a big singles match showdown when this is over. But
by the time the mixed stuff is over, I might
feel differently. It might be like we need to get
these people away from each other, but right now I
think they can.

Speaker 1 (12:19):
Yeah, it does seem like it is just lasting forever
as a few it's it's insane, and yeah, this does
just sort of go settle in because there's going to
be more. YEP, you can support us on Patreon and
get these shows with ads and plugs remove, the Weight
Killer Prosing podcast, Weight Keller Prosing post shows, and the
PW Torch daily cast throughout the week with ads and

(12:40):
plugs remove, plus a few bonus VIP shows throughout the
month for just four dollars and ninety nine cents a month.
Check it out patreon dot com slash PW Torch VIP.
That's patreon dot com slash PW Torch vip and you
can also upgrade to other tiers and receive even more
benefits through Patreon from a seth Rollin Stampoint, we talked

(13:02):
about Becky being really good in this talk talk more
about how this can benefit Seth, or if Seth's gonna
not fit in because he's still going for cheers with
a song when everyone else is kind of playing their
parts more in alignment.

Speaker 3 (13:13):
I'm hoping that Seth will start dressing normal and let
Becky be the one that pass outlanding That just wishful thinking. Probably,
I'm just now I'm still over that version of Seth
and with this new faction, I think somebody of us
wanted him just to shake it up and do something different,
and it looked initially like he was going to and
then he came out dressed all wild again. But I

(13:34):
think that just again being with Becky playing that there's
just different ways to play the husband role where he.

Speaker 4 (13:42):
Can be subservient, you know whatever.

Speaker 3 (13:44):
There's just different ways he can play it that I
think will be good for Heat and I'm curious to
see which way he does. Yeah, I think this is
good for Seth for the time being.

Speaker 1 (13:54):
What about the vision because we've had Bronson, Reid and
brown Breaker doing their own thing without Paul Hayman, who
got Seth and Becky split off, and I get it
circumstantially it makes sense because they're in separate things right now,
computing completely different people. But do they have a segment
where they're all in the ring together or is Becky
not really officially part of the vision and she's just

(14:16):
with Seth and she's making reference to the vision, but
she's gonna go do her own thing like that's not established,
And I mean it might be very deliberate, but I
wonder if it's also like they acknowledged, you know what,
vision wasn't great. You know, the Seth was sort of
stealing the scene, didn't have any didn't have any chemistry
with Breaker and Brawn, and if everything sort of felt

(14:36):
forced and performative, Haman wasn't really shining in a new
way as a performer, didn't feel like, oh this is
an exciting new chapter with Hayman and Seth's just sort
of dominating. Maybe they wanted to get I mean, maybe
it's a happy coincidence or strategic they wanted to get
Seth away from Read and Breaker, or even more so,
get Read and Breaker to establish themselves on their own.

(14:56):
So to talk about that where you think.

Speaker 4 (14:58):
It's going, I would like to see Becky be with
that group on a regular basis. If Hayman was able
to you know, in part Hayman come up with all
that material for the various Bloodline members. I would think
that he come up with some really good material for
Becky Lynch and that, you know, just being part of
that act in the ring with them too. I don't

(15:18):
think it's gone all that well with Seth leading this faction.
I think Breaker and Reed of developed chemistry, but Seth
didn't want to change. Seth still comes out to the
same infant music and where's the Wild Clothes and wants
to be that Seth rollins, and I don't think that
really meshes with those guys. They're pretty straightforward, serious type

(15:39):
of characters, and for Seth to come out there being
all flamboyant, you just kind of roll your eyes at
it at this point, like, yeah, I worked for a while, Seth,
but it's time to change.

Speaker 1 (15:49):
Or don't change and just don't be part of a
faction where you show no interest in developing chemistry and rapport.

Speaker 3 (15:55):
I would still say it's time for a change. I
just yeah, you know, I'm just kind of over that character.

Speaker 1 (16:01):
But if he is insistent I'm not changing, right, then
get away from Breaker and read Yes, Now, I thought
it's it's been interesting seeing Breaker and Read Like. One
of the things I'd love most part person and say
this all the time, is the journey that we see
wrestlers go on trying to find a lane, latch on
to something that connects with an audience. And of course
you need to have some probability and ring ability a

(16:23):
look chrismas you know, something that that and in an
open spot in the roster for that type of person.
Sometimes there are just too many of one kind of
wrestler and you kind of get lost. So with Read
and Breaker, it's interesting seeing them play off each other.
I'm remain unsold, but not I remain unsold on bron

(16:43):
Breaker being this inevitable WrestleMania centerpiece, ara defining star. But
that's a super high bar. But I only bring that
up because that's the bar they talk about constantly on commentary.
So I'm going to evaluate him on unfair standards that
most people don't face because they do and I still
don't really know who he is. Is he this book smart,

(17:04):
college educated smart guy who defies people's expectations because he
looks like this physical, tightly wound hothead or is he
a physically tightly wound hothead who says every syllable like
he's punching someone in the face. And beyond that, we
don't know a lot about him, who does a spear
and Anna is a good wrestler. But I like so,

(17:26):
I think he's still on a journey, just like he
was in nxt. You know, they're gonna they're not gonna
be all over the place like inn nxt T. They're
gonna be a little more focused. But read I think
has started to step up, Like I don't think he
wants to be subservient and the third or fourth guy
in a group and it's coming across now he's the
guy calming breaker. He sounds intelligent. Of course, Americans are
suckers for any kind of accent, you know, really any

(17:49):
kind of accent, but especially European, Australian, New Zealand that
kind of thing. It's just, you know, you gain like
twenty eight que points in our minds no matter what
drivele you're saying. But in case, he sounds smart in
alpha he's like a leader and it and but it
also works with him delighting in being a shoe thief
and also being like this, you know, Tsunami Tsunami Delivering Monster.

(18:16):
I think it's all working together. So like, I think
he's the kind of the success story. He's on the
verge of becoming more of a success story, which everybody
wanted it to because everyone was so high on him,
but they couldn't quite find the role and he's not
there yet. But there's like, yeah, you kind of verbally
nodded along to that to tell me your thoughts.

Speaker 3 (18:36):
I feel like, well, last time I was on I know,
I said that they need to add a new member
to this group simply because they need somebody to be
the fall guy, because it shouldn't be Bronze and Read,
and I stand by that, and I didn't like seeing
him play that role essentially for Roman. Now they both

(18:57):
beat the hell out Roman after the match and all,
but it was okay, Roman beats Bronson, albeit after really
a strong matchman all that from Bronton, but it was
still to establish that, Okay, Roman can get by Bronson, but.

Speaker 4 (19:11):
Kenny get by Braun and it's fine to do it now.

Speaker 3 (19:15):
Long term though, they need to be planning ahead for
whenever that time comes with Breaker Bronson, Reid's going to
be a hell of a showdown opponent for him if
they play this right. So don't establish him as the
setup guy right now, get out of that mode and
start making him feel damn, you're equal. And because I
just think there's money there, And with Bronson, I'm sorry.

(19:39):
With Broun, Breaker, I do feel like WRESTLEMANNI main event,
the potential is certainly there.

Speaker 4 (19:46):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (19:46):
I mean, Paul Hayman may have even been embellishing I
would hope when he talked about him headlining like five
Wrestlemanians in a row or something. But that's the other
part of it, Like there's issues there with Breaker right
now that we don't know. I don't know if he's
really figured out how to play this either. He knows
who his character is, but he does have the crutch
of Paul Hamon and hopefully that's going to become something

(20:07):
that really helps him in the short term. But also
working with him and behind the scenes is going to
get him to where he needs to be as a
character so that he doesn't always need Haymen. And again,
I think I talked with this last time too, that
with Breaker right now, the character is obviously helish, but

(20:27):
he does possess the ability to play a solid babyface,
a likable, down to earth baby face. It didn't really
take off in NXT. The guy who hung on on
the fishing boat and was down to earth. I loved it,
but a lot of people really didn't care for it.
And I just wonder if there's a different way to
establish that, if it would work on the main roster

(20:48):
at some point, not now, but somewhere down the road.
But I do think that.

Speaker 4 (20:52):
That's the guy that they look at and see like
this is the future until somebody else establishes now I'm
in the future.

Speaker 1 (20:59):
I would love to know what Paul Hayman thinks of
the vision and it's execution so far, how much agency
he has, and if he would agree with my premise
and your belief that the chemistry's not there and Seth
should have changed and a pulse frustrated and not maybe
sandbagging the gimmick a little bit or going yeah, Seth,
you go do your thing. I'll just stand here in
the background and then I'll make my case once this

(21:21):
doesn't work, to get out of it, you know, like
M Jeff and the Hurt Syndicate, whatever happened there, it
kind of dissolved quicker than most people seem to anticipate
for political reasons behind the scenes. And that's you know,
pure conjecture. It's just one scenario. It's also possible he
just thinks it's going well, you know, oh yeah, it's good.
It's whatever I do. But I don't. I mean, it's

(21:43):
not a disaster. It's just, you know, you get excited
for what the next thing is going to be after
the bloodline, and it's that, you know, it's like your
favorite you know, writers or showrunners or director puts out
a great movie, your TV series, like, oh, what's their
next project, and you're like, eh, I can't really get
through the first episode. It's not that bad, but it
is just it's not what you hoped. So yeah, I'm
kind of curious how the vision goes full circle. I mean,

(22:03):
they took forever to come up with the name. Now
Hayman's gone. Now they're split off in separate things. Is
it worth bringing it back together again when they do well,
they add that person for the reasons you said, will
Becky be part of it or not? A lot of
questions about it, but I mean it hasn't been part
of a boom period for de Toobee. You know, I
mean it's it's been you know, the vision is not
a spark that's helped I think significantly. Aj Lee helped

(22:24):
viewership a lot for SmackDown. You know, it was interesting
that aj Lee, not only I mean obviously SmackDown two
fridays ago, did that one point one million number is terrible,
but it was, you know, going into memorally weekend in
the United States, but she got up to one point
five eight five million. This pass rush sheet, I should say,
this showed it for one point five eight five million,
but two weeks ago it did one point two five

(22:45):
eight Before that one point four to three to zero.
You have to go back to August eighth and August
first to get other shows above one point five, but
they were so it's not like this big outlier, but
it was. She did bring it back a little bit
above where it had been on average in July and August.
There was a big bump on July twenty fifth for
the whole Cogan tribute show, but otherwise this was the

(23:09):
biggest rating and actually demo wise, she did a better number. Uh.
She SmackDown featuring her did azero point five to one
in the demo versus a Hogan memorial show, which did
a point four to eight.

Speaker 3 (23:19):
So the most impressive part of this is, yeah, what
it went against an NFL game. It was there was
a free NFL game on YouTube that I have no
idea what they're if they're being legit with their numbers,
but they're claiming seventeen million.

Speaker 1 (23:34):
Yeah, yep, so that is it is impressive. So she
she's made a difference. Now, yeah, that can be. It
just dissipates afterwards, you know, well, we'll see. But I
but I think her promo on Monday was good. Dude,
you from U do you agree with me that she
held court well, it felt real, didn't cross the line

(23:55):
into hey, let me sit here and just talk forever
about myself, which a lot of people who talk that long,
and not that it was super long, but like, oh,
I went through therapy and I did this, and you
guys think this about me, and I like, she just
did kind of like, you know, talk a lot about herself.
But I thought the fans were on the edge of
their seat for it.

Speaker 3 (24:12):
I did too, and she was self deprecating with you know,
the genie shorts that are too small, that kind of stuff,
And so yeah, I thought she looked at home. She
didn't look like somebody that was gone for ten years
and hasn't done a lot of public speaking since.

Speaker 4 (24:28):
I mean, I don't know she has.

Speaker 3 (24:29):
Maybe she has done some stuff with the writing career,
if she's making rounds for that, But no, she she
really did a nice job and I'm guessing it's only
going to get better from here.

Speaker 1 (24:41):
Yeah, yep. All right, Well, let's pause and introduce ourselves
briefly here and then get on with other topics.

Speaker 5 (24:51):
Need an extra dose of positivity in your wrestling podcasts,
will come join me Alan four l Over in the
Progress Paradise at Pterodtorch vip as we mask on the
bright side of wrestling and focus on some of the
great matches and shows from around the world, be it
the US, Japan, Europe or Mexico. There's always a place

(25:11):
for wrestlings past in the Paradise too, and we've done
fun historical shows such as the We Love Liger series
celebrating the glorious career of Jusian Thunderliger and our Eye
was there when shows where our guests will join me
to talk about a classic bout that they were in
attendance for. We love variety and you can expect lots
of it at the Pro Wrest Paradise. Detailed PW Torch

(25:33):
VIP subscription information and a list of all the VIP
benefits is available at pterwrew Torch vipinfo dot com. And yes,
all VIP podcasts are compatible with popular podcast apps on
iPhone and Android devices, or you can stream them directly
from our ad free VIP mobile site. See you in
the Paradise.

Speaker 1 (25:56):
This is a way Teller Pro Wrestling podcast The leg
Ship edition on Tuesday, September ninth, twenty twenty five, and
yes it is Jason Powell a week early. Kelly Wells
was originally scheduled for this week and Jason next week.
We flipped them due to some scheduling issues with Kelly,
and so we're gonna look forward to Kelly Wells coming
back to the flake Ship next Tuesday. But we got

(26:18):
Jason here a week early. And if we seem like
we're in a good mood, better than usual despite everything
else going on, the Vikings big comeback in the last
quarter and a half last night, or I guess mostly
the last quarter twenty one unanswered points beat the Bears

(26:38):
in Chicago after everything looked like our season was middle
third quarter, It's like season's over, Jason. We got people
are posting their hot takes. Our quarterbacks sucks, and the
defense is overrated. And if the Bears beat them, they
ever beat Detroit or their Green Bay And then JJ McCarthy. Basically,
I'm gonna say he's the broun breaker of the NFL

(27:00):
now like as of today, he is the future centerpiece,
make a crossover star. Anthony Edwards on the Timberos has
a challenger for potentially the biggest star, you know, the
biggest breakout national star in this market in pro sports.
I know we talked off air, Jason, but yeah, how
high are you?

Speaker 4 (27:21):
I'm excited?

Speaker 3 (27:22):
I mean for the first probably well whatever the until
they finally kicked it into gear there sometime late in
the third I was watching and getting worried, like the
offense was so simplistic. Everything was like Dink and donk
passes and it didn't seem like it was designed to
go downfield, Like, wow is this They look and see
like this guy can't do it, and they're just simplifying

(27:44):
the offense and they they're hoping they can just get
it done on the ground. I was seriously starting to
worry that, like, did we just draft the next Zach Wilson,
the kid from the Jets that turned out.

Speaker 4 (27:54):
To be a huge bust, and no that I knew.

Speaker 3 (27:58):
I was like, Okay, there's a lot of football left
in this guy's career, but based on my first impression,
this isn't looking so good.

Speaker 4 (28:04):
And then he came to life.

Speaker 3 (28:06):
And that's what we were hearing about from the training
camp reports and a little bit we saw of him
in preseason, especially that one game last year that he
got hurt in.

Speaker 4 (28:15):
It was fun.

Speaker 3 (28:16):
It was really cool to see him just rooked the
first game, essentially a rookie I know technically is not,
but he might as well be first first start, and he,
at twenty two years old, leads the team from eleven
points down And yeah, I mean it's it's one week
and there's still a lot for him to prove.

Speaker 4 (28:36):
But it was really exciting.

Speaker 1 (28:38):
Yeah, yeah, so we you and I could talk longer.
I got a lot to say. We talked off already,
so I got it out of my system. We don't
want to bore people who don't care about the NFL.
But JJ McCarthy, I mean, no, if you're an NFL
fan or not, you might be hearing about him based
on one quarter of play that we really liked. But yeah,
there's a lot more to it. I mean the way
he showed such leadership skills and one over his teammates,

(29:01):
and yeah, it's it's it's exciting. It's fun to have
not a washed up veteran quarterback for a year or
two who's been on a rehab project. I mean, we've
been the home of Brett Favre, Warren Moon, Randall Cunningham,
and I mean some of these had good years George, Jeff, George.

Speaker 4 (29:18):
And then there was Donovan McNabb who did not have
a good year.

Speaker 1 (29:21):
I was just bringing him up. Yep. Oh, we've had
We've had like so many quarterbacks who are doing you
know what Pittsburgh is going through now with Aaron Rodgers, Like, Okay,
you know, another mother good year or two in him.
But it's the end, and it'd be nice to have
another Frand Tarkington.

Speaker 3 (29:38):
Yeah, I would settle for another Dante Culpepper. At this point,
I don't even remember Fran Tarkington outside of when he
was on that incredible So it's before my time.

Speaker 1 (29:48):
Or Tony Robbins infomercials.

Speaker 3 (29:50):
Yes, I mean Tommy Kramer and Wade Wilson we were kids,
were fun. But yeah, it's this court. This this team
is as great as they've been at like draft, being
wide receivers. For some reason, they just have not been
good when it comes to quarterbacks, and it was scary this.
They kind of had to take what was given to him.
It was basically JJ or bon Nicks based on the

(30:12):
way the draft unfolded, and I think it so far
it looks like it's gonna work out for both teams.
I think Knicks is actually a good fit in Denver's offense, which,
by the way, I'm no longer Broncos WI because Sean
Payton can kiss my ass. I no, I cannot cheer
for a team that is coached by that smug prick.
So yes, I would like to say like I'm having
fun with the bon Nick stuff, but I'm not at all.

(30:34):
So yeah, I think JJ. I mean, I just O connall.
We trust, you know, this guy just knows what he's
doing with quarterbacks. It's really fun to watch, and I
think Chicago has that too with their coach it but
we just don't know if he can coach yet. It's
we know he can put together a really impressive offense

(30:57):
and be a great offensive coordinator, but there's a lot
more that goes into being a great head coach.

Speaker 4 (31:01):
And we'll see. But I mean, I like what I
see of him so far. Mostly I think he's a
little smug himself, but we'll see.

Speaker 1 (31:09):
Yeah, I'm a little worried though. Joshua Dobbs looked like
he was going to be a pro bowler?

Speaker 4 (31:13):
Right?

Speaker 1 (31:13):
Is that was that his name?

Speaker 4 (31:15):
I'm sorry who.

Speaker 1 (31:16):
Dobbs was a josh Thas? Yeah, yeah, it's like, oh,
he's going to be a pro bowler and uh and
then at all? Who was that? Is that what I'm
thinking of? Is there somebody else who had like a
good run.

Speaker 3 (31:28):
Uh Dobbs? Now Dobbs came in and everybody got excited
about the past or not and all that, and then uh,
once he had to start learning the offense, no, it
was not good.

Speaker 1 (31:40):
Yeah, so hopefully that's not JJ McCarthy where in six
weeks were comparing him to the one game, the one
quarter wonder, right right, all right, let's uh let's shift
to some of the conversation here. I do want to
cover one other item from Rob for sure, and that
is the show closing incident with Jay us So and
Allen Knight with Jimmy use so kind of in the middle.

(32:01):
What what's your take on what they're doing there? And
do you like it?

Speaker 4 (32:04):
I don't know yet. I'm intrigued.

Speaker 3 (32:07):
I didn't see this coming at all. It just seemed, Okay,
you've got Jimmy and Jay back together. That's enough, that's fine.

Speaker 4 (32:13):
I kind of liked that they're doing something, but I
reserved it right to go, Wow, that was stupid. It
may be great.

Speaker 3 (32:19):
I don't know, but yeah, I didn't see like this
attitude with Jay. This is him like reaching this boiling
point for some reason. I mean, they've kind of been
showing that he's a little frustrated.

Speaker 4 (32:31):
I didn't.

Speaker 3 (32:32):
I don't without knowing where it's going, I can't tell
if they played it right or wrong by having Jay
retaliate on night for something that Knight has pretty strong
plausible deniability for that, right, I mean it was he
just got out of the way. I mean, who wouldn't.
And Jay's matt about that the corner splash from from
Bronson Reid. So I don't know if they like did

(32:54):
that intentionally, like that's what they want us to be thinking,
is oh, yeah, wow, Jay's kind of going off about
nothing here, or if it's so they thought that was
going to be enough and people would understand that, you know,
Jay was just getting a little measure of revenge. We'll
see how, you know, if it's not a big deal.
It's one thing, so they can always course correct if
they didn't intend that, But if they did, I'm really

(33:14):
intrigued to see why.

Speaker 1 (33:16):
Yeah, and I think they would say, well, the details
are good, it's okay if you remember them, but it's
not the most important thing. What's the most important is
Jay Is has this sort of insecurity kind of a
variation of Sammy z Ain's constant insecurity and identity crisis
and being a follower who wants to be a leader
or wants to be part of something and l a

(33:37):
Knight is cost him in his mind, you know, world
title or he's getting it his way. He's not forgiving
him for something that wasn't a mistake, and he's just
like I want some respect, you know, and the way
to get respect isn't to shake hands and playcate this stubborn,
prideful La Knight. It's to bash him in the back

(33:59):
and show him that I'm the Elphae. And you believe
Jay would do that because Jay is sort of driven
by emotion, not reason. That's his whole that's his appeal
as a babyface. And you know, Jimmy going, You're starting
to sound a lot like Roman and the Crown.

Speaker 4 (34:10):
What ooh.

Speaker 1 (34:11):
And it's not that Roman is a bad thing. It's
people know that's not Jay's natural place to be that
kind of alpha, but he's trying to be. And so
it's Jimmy going, you're trying to be something you're not,
and you're it's something that isn't endearing. And so I'm
curious if he snaps out of it. I don't see
this as a heel turn. I think that'd be crazy.

(34:33):
But at the same time, people care enough about Jay
that anything they do that varies from yeat and all
that people are going to be invested in because this
has been a good year for him.

Speaker 3 (34:43):
Yeah, it had. That was kind of my takeaway from it. Was,
especially when you had that line about maybe sounding like
me isn't enough or not isn't working? Whatever that line was,
I was like, you won the World heavyweight Championship being
you Like, why is this all of a sudden the thing?

Speaker 4 (35:00):
So I don't feel like they set the table for it.

Speaker 3 (35:03):
Well, it just kind of felt like, Wow, this went
from one to five quickly. But I'm still very intrigued
by and and I'm giving it a chance to see,
like where does this go? Because it's weird to me
that you would start this dynamic heading into the field. Good, Hey,
we're back together. The usso's rock kind of a thing

(35:25):
that they have knowing.

Speaker 1 (35:27):
I'm not saying I have faith that this will play
out and make sense, but I'm along for the ride.
And I do think Jay acting this way fits. I
always like Jay riding high on the rumble and riding
high on being world champion and the yeat fest through
the crowd. But I don't I never got the sense
that the Jay us of character was just secure, content

(35:49):
and happy. It felt it felt tenuous, It felt fleeting
that if something got taken away, he'd kind of meltdown
or freak out or or do something hasty. I like,
I buy into that with him. I know, well, we'll see.
Hopefully they've got it mapped out in a good way. Hey, Jason,
take a moment to tell people how they can support
what you do and hear more of your work and

(36:09):
read your work. Ad free.

Speaker 4 (36:11):
Pro Wrestling dot Net is the place to go if
you're looking for a news update, a live review of
a television show. If you're an indie wrestling fan, Chris
Fetter's got a million different reviews of Hindi shows. Man
that I don't know when he sleeps, I call him
the machine, and so yes, all sorts of I get
news fixes and the TV reviews and everything else going

(36:31):
on on the main page at pro Wrestling dot net.
If you want to take the progresling dott and experience
to the next level, you can become a member of
our ad free website, which also includes our ad free
exclusive podcasts that are available again only to the members.
And it is very simple. Visit pw Membership dot net

(36:52):
and you can sign up there for every again, everything
becomes ad free, even the website special website just for
the members. And if you just like you know, I
don't really care so much about the website, but gosh,
I do like an ad free podcast. You might be
able to save yourself a little bit of money by
going to patreon dot com slash pro Wrestling, dootnat spill
that one out. And the nice thing about the Patreon

(37:14):
option too for audio is it is available on Spotify,
so that is a nice perk for some folks. And
let's see you can also check out my free weekly podcast,
which is the Pro Wrestling Boom Podcast. Do a search
on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts, and
you can follow me on either of the major social
media platforms there's Blue Sky and the other one at

(37:36):
Pro Wrestling Net.

Speaker 1 (37:40):
Thanks for downloading today's show. Take it to the next
level with a VIP membership. Get shows like this the
Way Tiller Prosing Podcast, Weight Tiller Prosing Post Show, and
the PW Torch daily casts on our PW Torch VIP
podcast feed with ads and plugs removed from the shows
for a streamlined listening experience. And also hear the VIP
exclusive shows that I host with Rich Fan and Todd Martin,

(38:00):
Everything with Rich Fan and The Fix with Todd Martin's
signature VIP series that you're missing out without a VIP membership,
so go vip here in twenty twenty two and enjoy
all the benefits, all the bonus content and the ad
free listening experience, pw toorts dot com, slash go vip okay.

(38:20):
A couple other things. Well, actually, you listened to Triple
Eat earlier today. Talk about kind of about three key
talking points coming out of that.

Speaker 3 (38:29):
Yeah, he was on paton McAfee show, and I just
kind of half listen. I was basically kind of trying
to do some other things. But one of the things
he mentioned it was kind of comical. He says that
he just did Tony Hingecliff's Killed Tony podcast, and which
is the big comedy thing.

Speaker 4 (38:48):
You know, They've got a version of it on Netflix
now even and then he catches himself and goes, oh,
I wasn't supposed to say that until next Monday, any
men did so any WWE wrestler or writer, any if
you guys slip up and let a storyline out there,
save that clip and show it to your uncle Paul.
The other thing he said was, h Cody will be

(39:10):
back for the wrestl BLUESA show. He just said spoiler
on this one. So there you go.

Speaker 3 (39:17):
He's the guy who complains about spoilers, and he's giving
him away, and now he's even giving away his own spoiler.

Speaker 1 (39:22):
And who's going to wrestle If he's there, what's lined up?

Speaker 4 (39:25):
It would assume Drew.

Speaker 3 (39:27):
Yeah, I mean, he doesn't have anything else going on now.

Speaker 4 (39:31):
To be fair, he did say he'll be back in
time for Indianapolis.

Speaker 3 (39:35):
I took that mean that he'll be working Wressell Palooza.

Speaker 4 (39:39):
But I think they're also doing smack Down there. Maybe not,
I'm not sure.

Speaker 1 (39:42):
Maybe a fan fest to meet and greet. Yes, it
is weird how much in the wrestling this a lot
of times they talk about the city, like that's how
they identify the show, like like, oh, yeah, Chicago, roh yeah,
in Indianapolis, roh yeah, in Tampa. Like they don't go
by the show title, like they had identify the event
based on being in that city, because you know, they

(40:03):
experienced the city. They're at the airport, they're you know,
taking pub anoop or whatever the building or you know,
and then they're in the building and they're like they
identify shows with the vibe of the city more than
we do just watching on TV, where that kind of
dissipates right.

Speaker 4 (40:17):
Right, and no, there is no SmackDown in Indianapolis. So
Paluza one O their thing.

Speaker 3 (40:23):
He and Nick kN need to sit down and get
on the same page because Nick is famous for you know,
if I call it two in the morning, I expect
people to answer, and I hate out of the office
replies by email. Well, Levac was talking about how he
and Steph took the kids, I want to say, to
grease and those photos came out of them on yacht
or something like that. People were well, people were people

(40:46):
about it, and he just ended up saying like, you know,
when you are at work, you work. When you're on vacation,
be on vacation, when you're at home, be there, be home.
And I'm just thinking, Wow, you and Nick con could
not be more opposite. I wonder if that ever becomes
an issue. I'm guessing it doesn't.

Speaker 4 (41:05):
I tend to believe that it sounds nice for Levec
and I'm not saying like he doesn't like spend some
quality time or anything like that, but just given the
nature of the job, I'll bet there's a lot of
times where when he's at home he's still working.

Speaker 1 (41:19):
Yeah, yeah, but I mean it is, it is nice
to have those words if you're if you're a wrestler
wants to go on a vacation or slips up on
an interview, and uh yeah you can go. Well, I
just living living by your advice, LEVC. I really really
respect you. Let's let's shift to some a W topics
here wardlow out with a torn pectora muscle. I had

(41:40):
some exclusive details on that yesterday on PW torch dot
com that.

Speaker 4 (41:44):
I've been locked out of my account, so I'm not
aware of those way. I think we've got it resolved.
I just haven't do it yet.

Speaker 1 (41:51):
The free sight was there too, and uh yeah so
the tor or the interry current close ligning Prince Non.
That's what the belief at least is in AW. I
think it's probably probably know it.

Speaker 4 (42:03):
But and there he was winning prints Nana yeah yeah,
wow yeah, fluky wow.

Speaker 1 (42:11):
Yeah. And he's expected to need surgery, that's been reported.
But also that you know, not that I kind of
assume things were going that way, but got confirmed that Yeah,
hangman page was on the agenda for him one on
one big match, that they had really big things planned
for him. And he's really bummed out, you know, because
this is going to be the biggest push of his career,

(42:32):
and this could sell him back five to eight months
if it's on the higher end of severity, you know,
maybe shorter. So well, you know, aw is not great
uh with getting because you know they're like, oh, we
can't report details on you know, wrestler's medical situations. Well
you can if you ask them. Do you mind if
we say public? I mean you shouldn't report on you know,
personal details, but so.

Speaker 3 (42:51):
You should ask Tony and maybe I Wilson ever get
I ever get that response, like, well then why can
you do it with the Jaguars?

Speaker 1 (42:56):
Yeah, yep, yeah, could we have a similar policy? Let
us know it is there's a focus secrecy when it
comes to eight and.

Speaker 4 (43:05):
He's famously on one of his back in the NXT days,
I think Dave Meltzer asked him about a Raymisterio he
was out with an injury, and he's like that he
cited hippo laws not giving him an update. It was
just ridiculous.

Speaker 1 (43:17):
Yeah, they don't. I don't think they really fully understand
how that how there is a work around on that which, yes,
you get permission from the athletes each time and they
usually often will not care and be like, yes, of
course communicate. Injuries happen and it's natural to report them
at sports and their sports, doesn't that's.

Speaker 3 (43:35):
Harrison Smith, I know, yes, But those who don't know
he's a Vikings player and he's been sidelined for weeks now,
and all they will say is it's a personal thing.
It's it's an illness and it's not that serious and
he keeps missing time.

Speaker 1 (43:51):
Well on the Viking pre show on the Flightship, they said, uh,
mysterious illness. Wow, so he added mysterious to it. Yeah,
so yeah, So it's a bummer, you know. I mean
the don Kellis family, you know, to have a plan
laid out and you know it's a it's a big mix.
But they had different things for different people in the family.

(44:11):
Obviously got O Cotton to catch it with their tension.
You got Fletcher doing doing his thing, trying to become
the greatest T and T champion ever. And you know,
the coast is clear for Wardlow to have this like
be a heel with a new manager and a new
setup and and yeah, now it's it's I mean, big
super muscular guys get these injuries a lot and I
think they you know, they just you know, the human

(44:33):
body isn't meant to be that muscular, and then doing
things like throwing clothes lines and yeah, it's the big
batista Paula Beck. You know that those are the physiques
when they're at their peak that tend to be most
vulnerable to this. So yeah, I mean, I'm you know,
teach their own. But you know, when you decide that
you're going to be that big and live in the

(44:54):
gym and and you know, do what it takes to
put on that kind of muscle mass, you might have setbacks.
And it sucks that you don't. We should have put anyone.
But I don't think it's you know, a wild theory.
Even though I'm not trained as an expert, you know,
observing this, there's a pattern of it happening more with
when you have that kind of muscle mass.

Speaker 4 (45:12):
And it's not just wrestling. During the baseball home run era,
the steroids are if you will, there were seemed all
of a sudden be a lot of bicep and his
price up. Tears yep.

Speaker 1 (45:22):
So yeah, I'm curiously for though decides to come back,
and not with the mindset that how I'm going to
get over is by packing on eight more pounds of
muscle or twenty more pounds of muscle and comeback more,
you know, more sleek. He's still going to stand out
in aw even if he decides to be more athletically
muscular instead of visually bodybuilder muscular.

Speaker 4 (45:44):
I'm surprised that's where they were knowing with that. I mean,
of all the people in the Cow's family, the top people,
I guess I didn't think it would be Wardlow was
the guy they were going to set up as being
like the number one challenge for Hangman Pat. I'm not
saying it would have been bad. It just surprised me.

Speaker 1 (46:05):
I can't roll out. He went to bend like a
setup guy or the first in a long line. I
just think the idea is Fletcher's got his thing, oh
cotton to catch out their thing, and that's it. You're
not gonna do Lance Archer, Bran Katee, oh Bran Cage,
he's out and uh, you know, Rocky Romero and whatever.
So I think the idea was, well, we're bringing him
in because we want Callous to manage somebody going against

(46:27):
our baby's top babyface world champion. Wordless but out a
while this will makes sense. It gets gives a fresh
matchup for Hangman. I think obviously Hangman is going to
win the win the match, and win the feud and
retain the title. But by then maybe they'd be ready
to go to Acat or Fletcher.

Speaker 4 (46:41):
Yeah, so it was going to be Wardlow right away.

Speaker 1 (46:44):
I didn't get it. I didn't get a timeline. I
I got it down to seeming like it would have
been this year.

Speaker 3 (46:51):
Okay, So yeah, it's that the Fletcher number one contender
thin or just out of the blue, he's getting a
title match. Thing surprises me, just because you do want
to establish him as a strong P and T champion
and instead, like I assume they're just gonna feed him
to Hangman Page and boy, I mean, there's no shame
in that, but it's not gonna help Fletcher unless they

(47:15):
just have an amazing match, and that's what people remember,
which I can't rule out.

Speaker 4 (47:21):
Because they're they're both very good.

Speaker 1 (47:22):
Yeah. Well, let's talk about Dynamite Torow Knight, because you've
got to Hangman Page against Josh Alexander. So that's kind
of the beginning. It's called a grudge match. What if
you thought of how maybe we talked about a coupleks ago,
but what have you thought about how they've utilized Josh.
Actually was Darren Lily I talked to about it. But
how do you feel about how Josh has been portrayed
compared to what TNA was able to get out of him?

Speaker 4 (47:44):
Oh, it's really disappointing. I mean it's it's they're just.

Speaker 3 (47:49):
So many more people in aw, so many more main
event players where Josh and TNA was a main event player.
He was a world champion, and when he wasn't a
world champion, he was around the World championship still and
he did a great job there. He comes to a
w and it's kind of what I fear. Just he
goes from being the big fish in a smaller pond
too now kind of being in that bigger pond, and

(48:12):
he feels like the ultimate setup guy. I'd love to
think like this is the start of something for him,
but I think they're just going to feed him to
page as well. And I mean, he's not like the
world's greatest promo, but he can hang. He's got callous
for that. Yeah, I just I felt like there was
more to do with him than just being the fall guy,

(48:34):
and that's quickly what he's become. He he and it's
kind of just seeing him and Mike Bailey both. I'm
happy they're both paid, but it's been frustrating as somebody
who saw what they're capable of in TNA Bainlely at least,
you know, with the tag team. I think it's been
a little bit better for him lately, but at both guys, it's, uh,
here we go again. They bring in new people, they're

(48:56):
all excited, and within a month they've just defined them.

Speaker 1 (48:58):
Down and I con't can't roll out either. That Warlow
would have been hanging Out's opponent even as soon as
all out, you know, had he been available right after
the Angle in his return, sure, yeah, yeah yeah, and
that you know, Alexander would have been a set up guy,
and you know something would go on with Wardlow afterwards.
And the Fletcher thing is not a master plan. He

(49:18):
wasn't the setup guy for Wardlow. It's just, oh, we
need somebody, and unfortunately we got to go to this before.
It's right before it feels like that's chance to build.
Because it does feel unfortunate, you know, it feels unfortunate
that they're going to it that soon, as opposed to
saving it as sort of an unfulfilled, unexecuted dream match,

(49:38):
you know, you where you leave people wanting to see it,
but they are on separate paths long enough that by
the time it happens, it feels bigger.

Speaker 4 (49:44):
Yeah, yeah, all right.

Speaker 1 (49:46):
Also on after his dynamite uh tony storm against sky
Blue not not a big deal Philly street fight.

Speaker 4 (49:52):
And why is it a Philly street fight?

Speaker 1 (49:54):
Yeah, because they're in Philadelphia and a little something extra. Yeah, well, I.

Speaker 4 (49:59):
Mean every company does, but I always prefer when there's
actually a reason.

Speaker 1 (50:04):
Oh, I know, totally. I mean I there, Yeah, I
mean there's a generation of wrestlers and even bookers who
have forgotten or conveniently disregard the notion that gimmick matches
should not be to add a little something extra to
a match to make up for the shortcoming of building
it up in more traditional ways. But that, yeah, there
should be some reason, and if you look back in time,

(50:27):
there was a reason. There's a genesis for some of
these gimmick matches happening, you know, and a lumberjack matches
because he kept running away and lumberjacks around the ring
that you don't just do it, so there's chaos at ringside.
So yeah, a lot a lot of stuff has been.

Speaker 4 (50:38):
Long, and cage matches weren't so wrestlers could jump off
the top of the cage.

Speaker 1 (50:42):
Right exactly. Yeah, I mean, I don't know if that
genie can be put back in the bottle. But you're
one hundred percent right.

Speaker 4 (50:48):
All right?

Speaker 1 (50:48):
Shelton Benjamin and Ricochet? What is going on? Are we
supposed to like Hurtz because they saw through MGF even
though they willingly let him cheat on their behalf and
were delighted in him helping them cheat even though they
claim they sell through him right away and they haven't
changed anything about what they're doing, or is Ricochet supposed

(51:08):
to be? I mean, like, I genuinely don't know what
an average viewer would think watching these two groups do
their promos.

Speaker 4 (51:14):
Well, I know, in the mind of their hurts indicate members,
we were always supposed to like them because they never
worked like heels, so I don't know why they would
think any different.

Speaker 1 (51:23):
And I noted in my report whenever it was that
MGF cheated on behalf of Lashly in a match, and
last year was like, yes, high five in celebrating whatever.
I'm like that you cannot go back and claim they
never liked him and didn't want him helping like that
was that in my mind, if we're to believe the
canon of lashly being happy with MGF cheating on their behalf,

(51:45):
that took away that line that they might be leaning on.

Speaker 3 (51:49):
Yeah, yeah, interesting. I just this isn't a match I
worry about so much. It's the one at the pay
per view where it's the trios. If they're not going
to sell.

Speaker 4 (52:04):
For Gates of Baggerty, they're not going to sell for
anybody just based on the way their gimmicks are.

Speaker 3 (52:09):
And that's a good young team that just keeps getting better.
There's a lot alike with those guys, and if they
just small them, then Tony Kanye used to just look
at this and go time to cut bait and and
move on because that should not be happening. But yeah,
I not a clue who's who's the baby face and
who's the heel in this this program?

Speaker 1 (52:29):
And maybe we know who's intended to be sort of,
But my my thinking is even more, what would an
average you were watching thing?

Speaker 4 (52:36):
Right?

Speaker 1 (52:36):
You know, we were on you all the time MGFF
and if you're astutely paying attention, like well, your hands
aren't clean on this one Ricochet, or your hands are
clean on the shelton and so, but then Ricochet's obnoxious.
But actually promo we cut less Wenesday, I thought was
more baby face than than what MVP did. But I
just see MVP as a smug heel no matter what
he does, So, you know, whatever the intent, I mean,

(53:00):
he only has one delivery tone and it's you know
it goloes back to his originally Neil MVP. I'm a
big I'm a big deal sports athlete, and he never
varies from that. There's no variation whatever role he's playing,
he just does cuts the exact same promo. So I was,
I just always see it as as no matter what
he's doing, it's pretty much a hell promo.

Speaker 4 (53:21):
I agree.

Speaker 1 (53:22):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 6 (53:29):
I'm Kelly Wells, host of p WT Talks NXT, the
longest running NXT podcast Anywhere. Join me along with Nate Lindberg,
Bruce Lee, Hazelwood, and special guests live every Tuesday night,
just minutes after NXT, where we cover the good, the bad,
and the ugly on the way to becoming a star
in WWE. Check us out live on YouTube or stream

(53:49):
later wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 1 (53:59):
Okay, and then also scheduled for Dynamite Mercedes Money and
Emmy Soccer versus Alex Windsor and Rijo follow up on
the Angle last week on Dynamite where Rio made a return.
Any thoughts on that, Jason my.

Speaker 3 (54:11):
Good Mercedes brought in Rito's trainer. Wow, that people just
unfortunately Emmy's talented, but it doesn't matter in a w Yeah,
so it's something I can we just get to where
we're going with Chris Statlander when it comes to the
whole thing with the death Riders and also with this

(54:32):
never ending friction she has with Willow. Yeah, these look
I like long term storytelling.

Speaker 4 (54:40):
I do. That's great.

Speaker 3 (54:41):
But when it's just the same thing week in and
week out that you're not that's not storytelling. That just
dragging things out for no good reason, and.

Speaker 1 (54:49):
In a way where there you don't sense people even
if it's repetitive, but if people care, you go, well,
people care, but it's repetitive, So it's not great. But
it's something people just don't care because I don't. I mean,
if you've wat every moment of collision and dynamite, probably
going back to rampage. You might have like an idea,
you know, this whole backstory, but Tony Count's never gonna
invest time in catching you up on the stuff that
you mister forgot about or didn't care about. And yet

(55:12):
they keep featuring it as if people are on their
edge of the seat wondering how that's going to resolve itself,
like Jimmy Jay and Kevin Knight. Yeah, sorry, Kevin Ella Knight.

Speaker 3 (55:21):
Right, So when I see something like that, I want
to feel like there's an end date that they know,
and so they're stretching it out a little bit. Okay,
they're trying to get it to this point. They got
a pay per view in three weeks, and so they're
going to have to stretch it out a little bit.

Speaker 4 (55:34):
That's fine. This has been going on for months, and
I still don't know if Tony even knows where this
is going. He may know where it's going, but I
don't know if he has any idea when he's actually
gonna get there.

Speaker 1 (55:44):
Yeah, well, viewership number, you know, sometimes you be can
critique booking and then look at numbers and go okay,
I mean it's working, but also and rightfully soca's history.
You know this happens in historically. You you can be
living off the momentum of prior good decisions and not

(56:05):
paying a price yet from a recent bad decisions, and
that happens a lot too. Whatever's going on with AW
is not good in terms of viewership four hundred and
seventy two thousand last week a point one to one
demo down from so four to seventy two thousand. That
was down from five eighty five, five sixty four, six
ninety and seven eleven in the prior four weeks. So
they're down two hundred thirty nine thousand I my map

(56:30):
something like that over the course of a month. That
that's that's huge. Like what number do I say, they're
down two hundred forty thousand. I can remember humbers, roughly
two undred forty thousand. That's a big drop off, and
again it can be a one off flip. The ten
week average is six forty. They did four to seventy two,

(56:52):
So you know that's still a big drop off when
you take a bigger number, if you do the average
for the whole year so far, are it's six hundred
twenty seven thousand, So four seventy two is a big
drop off no matter what sample you look at the
last few weeks, ten weeks of the whole year to date.
What happened, Jason. I mean, by Thursday, we'll get the

(57:12):
numbers and maybe they'll be back to the high five
hundreds and it'll be out one of those outliers. But
do you look at that if your Tony Kana go
oh yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (57:21):
Yeah, I look at it, and I'm questioning why And
none of the usual excuses work here. And hey, you
know when I say excuses, not that some of them
aren't valid at times, they just don't apply here usually
as well. You know, Okay, the the number was down,
but they were still the number one or two show

(57:41):
on cable. I think they were in the twenties for
this episode. They did not make the top ten at
the very least. I know that in the demo. And yeah,
just I'm looking at Programming Insider now, just to kind
of get a feel for what was on TV that night.
Are that are there that many? Is there that much
of a crossover between a viewers and the men's and
Women's US Open Tennis? I don't think so.

Speaker 1 (58:06):
So yeah, I mean the male eighteen to thirty four
demo was down to point zero eight compared to point
one one in point one three the prior two weeks.
I don't know what demo US opened tennis draws, but
they were down in a young male demo. If you
think that's not the strength of the tennis, then they're
down in their key demo if that makes sense.

Speaker 4 (58:27):
Sure. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (58:29):
The other stuff is well, the MAX numbers, I'm sorry,
there's no way that it was down like ninety thousand
Ballpark viewers. They didn't just magically get ninety thousand viewers
to flip over to Max that week out of the
Blue or HBO Max.

Speaker 1 (58:42):
Now.

Speaker 4 (58:43):
So, I do think that, depending on who's telling the story,
there's a lot of nonsense regarding Max and the streaming numbers.
If you're an AW apologist, you think that that's the
explanation for all of the decline while they're all watching
on HBO Max. Now all the people they've lost.

Speaker 3 (59:02):
And if you are an anti AW person, you think
there's three people watching on HBO Max. It's somewhere in
the middle, folks, you know it's I mean, I don't
know how HBO Max's Top ten works. But I never
see AW in it, and that's a little concent I

(59:23):
mean raw on Netflix, it's the day after, it's always
number one, may not stay there for long, but it's
stays in the top ten for the majority.

Speaker 4 (59:30):
Of the week.

Speaker 3 (59:32):
And for AW to never show up there again, is
there if I'm Tony Kahan and I know, like yeah,
because they're not including us for any reason, like if
we're just not eligible for their top ten. I get
that out there and the fact that he hasn't tells
me that they are and they're still not there, so
that I think that says a lot about just how

(59:52):
many people are watching via HBO Max and maybe that
will improve with the push now for the pay per view.
If you subscribe to Match, you can get ten dollars off.

Speaker 4 (01:00:03):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:00:03):
I don't know how many people that's going to move
to Max that aren't there HBO Max, that aren't there already,
but it's yeah. I think the big thing I saw
going into this show was the lack of interesting advertised matches,
and I think he came back this week with four matches.
Think well, I better announce some matches that it didn't
work last week to have an all star eight man

(01:00:25):
tag for the fiftieth time, and what was it Mercedes
defending the TBS title against Alex Winza. Okay, those are
very missible to people just because like you're gonna get
great action in the eight man tag. Of course you're
going to, but ultimately doesn't matter who wins. No, did
anyone really think that Alex winsor was going to beat Mercedes. No,

(01:00:46):
So those are two matches that just didn't grab people.
And frankly, turning around this week and advertising the four
matches they did, I don't think those matches are grabbing
people either. I mean, I can't rule out that it
is an aberration. I was waiting last week, like, okay,
they're gonna update and there's going to be a higher number.

Speaker 4 (01:01:02):
There's something wrong.

Speaker 1 (01:01:03):
With their I checked with my source. Yeah, yeah, I
really was.

Speaker 3 (01:01:06):
Waiting for that, And so, I mean I can't rule
out they just go right back to the five. But
the bottom line is the five hundreds are not impressive either.

Speaker 1 (01:01:13):
Yeah, and I think when it comes to Max two
like it there, we have a big sample size now,
and you'd have to believe that when they debuted on Max.
For some reason, people with access to TBS are just
choosing to watch on Max instead increasingly over time if
the numbers go down, and there's no logic to that. Now,
Max was in the news that week because of the

(01:01:36):
Paper v Deal, and maybe that reminded some people, Oh,
I can see it, and maybe some people got confused
and thought, oh, I can only watch Dynamite on Max now,
so they all turn into MAX. Well, if that's the case,
then the number will rebound this week. But the first
six months of the year they average six hundred twenty
two thousand, and the last ten weeks they averaged six

(01:01:57):
hundred twenty five thousand. The numbers have been on average steady,
So when something is different, it it jumps out, you
know what I mean, Because like there is a sort
of constant to aw's audience for better or for worse.
First three months of the year they averaged six hundred
eighteen thousand, and and then then the second quarter they

(01:02:20):
average six hundred and twenty six sous and that's within
the margin of era. They just sort of have their audience.
That's why this drop off kind of jumped out to
people like, ooh, we need to advertise matches or the
lack of will Osprey and Swart of strickland Is crossings,
which yeah, I mean like they might be underestimating that
and overestimating how much Derby means as a replacement for

(01:02:41):
losing those two top baby faces that they for now
that they put so much in Like.

Speaker 3 (01:02:44):
This version of Derby, he just shows up and does
weird stunts. Now, No, I like the Derby character, not
this dark Derby.

Speaker 1 (01:02:53):
Yeah, I'm with you, and I don't like just doing
stuff because it's sort like with gimmick matches. I'm gonna
put them in a body bag and just drag them
away and then we we'll mention it again.

Speaker 4 (01:03:02):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:03:02):
It's like that should be a big deal in way.

Speaker 4 (01:03:05):
That's where aw struggles. Ww E goes overboard with moments.

Speaker 3 (01:03:09):
But it's better to go overboard than not that than
than not to be able to book any Well.

Speaker 1 (01:03:14):
In my thinking here is that's a crime. It's dangerous,
it's deadly. If you're going to do it, follow up
on it. He else should be like we're we're we're Darby,
you know, did something pretty heinous, not just chuckleworthy, Like
if you want us to believe that's a big deal
and it's not just haha, yucket up stunt and it's
all fake anyway, even though couldn't be fake because we

(01:03:35):
saw Hm zip them up, drive him away, like they're
so inaborth this idea of like I'm willing to really
drag a real body, but it's like visually interesting. It's
like spring somebody with milk or beer out of a
bearer truck. It's like, well, it's visually fun, but you
have to have Oh it's humiliating, but it's not deadly.
But the beer's not.

Speaker 4 (01:03:53):
Even that the beer milk truck. That was a moment.
People remember that fondly.

Speaker 7 (01:03:57):
This.

Speaker 4 (01:03:57):
No one's going to be talking about this. I mean,
I'm surprised we are.

Speaker 1 (01:04:01):
Well I'm talking about it, well, yes, and I'm talking
about it because we're thinking about Darby's character. Oh yeah,
and is doing things. And again I use I say
this laugh. It's like some of Aw's booking feels like
a fourth grader said, want to be cool if we
did this, and then the booking idea just gets cleared
without any adult going, well, wait a second, let's talk
about this. We don't want someone suffocating somebody else plastic bag,

(01:04:21):
or injecting them with a needle, or putting someone in
a body bag and driving off in a pickup truck
with them dangling behind it, Because how do we follow
up on that within our universe? How do we welcome
them back to work? How do we welcome a guy
who tried to literally kill someone or burn down a
house or invade a home and we like you, They
want to get all the positives out of it, or
they won't do it, but they also don't want to
own the reality of how it doesn't work in their

(01:04:43):
universe without consequences, and so they ultimately kind of I
think subconsciously know that, and so therefore they don't follow
up on it because there's no way to follow up
on it without it drawing attention how ridiculous it is.
So they just sort of ignore it after it happens,
or make a passing reference to it to remind people,
but don't really own it, So just don't do it

(01:05:03):
in the first place, find other things, or have a
follow up, have it be part of something like with
the milk truck was fun because someone got humiliated and
then someone got him out of mop. Yeah, but but
I want to emphasize this point. Someone got humiliated and
wet and they had to change clothes and mop it up.
Darby dragged Gabe Kid in a body bag by a
pickup truck and we don't know what happened because they

(01:05:25):
just cut away, like that's not humiliation, that's deadly, or
like that's dangerous, Like we don't know what happened. Where
did he go? And for the next hour and forty
fifty five minutes nobody asked that question. Just move it on.
That was a fun visual, So.

Speaker 3 (01:05:43):
I will add to it also by saying that if
you're gonna do a stunt like that, don't have the
baby face be the one dragging the heel.

Speaker 1 (01:05:50):
That's all that. Yeah, well, yeah, Gabe Kid didn't do enough.
I mean well, and.

Speaker 3 (01:05:54):
Don't make it gonna don't make a Gabe Kid who
the average AW fan, if they're not watching nu Japan,
doesn't have a reason to care about her because the
exactly I like him in Nujapan.

Speaker 4 (01:06:04):
What I've seen in AW, He's just there. You know.

Speaker 3 (01:06:08):
Sometimes he gets to talk and that's his strength, and
most of the time he does and he just feels
like a henegrin for Moxley that hasn't even been given
a chance to catch on. So why would I care
that he's being dragged in a body bag behind a truck.
Which if you can't answer that question, then you don't
have someone dragging a body bag behind a truck.

Speaker 1 (01:06:25):
It is has been the problem from the first week
of Dynamite, Eric and you know when it became a
national weekly TV series and not playing to a niche
audience on pay per view once they were on national cable.
I mean you look, you listen to our early post shows.
It was like they are assuming too much knowledge with
a larger audience than these wrestlers have ever had. Yeah,
and even even aj Lee, like on Raw last night,

(01:06:47):
they ard of Vignette. Here's who she is, Here's what
Michael Cole said about her during her first run. Here's
highlights of what she did, and it led into what
happened on Friday, But they showed her background. They don't
expect people to go read the Wikipedia page or read
all articles on her, or watch YouTube video recapping. They
don't expect people to do their own research. And and
they're like even somebody like a j Lee who's megofriend,
did all these billions and billions of social media views.

(01:07:11):
We're gonna still put a thing yet on to kind
of like let people know what she's about if they
forgot or didn't run around for it, so they can
see highlights and also just emphasize and enhance people's memories
of her with concrete highlights. And it's just a smart
thing to do. And it just isn't how Tony Kain's
creative brain works.

Speaker 3 (01:07:29):
No, and he I mean he still needs help. Yes,
things have improved, and that's why I feel bad about
the numbers dropping the way they are because.

Speaker 4 (01:07:37):
The shows have been better. It's just there's still mistakes
being made, and there's still that inability to create those
memorable moments that are gonna get people buzzing. He's so
into social.

Speaker 3 (01:07:49):
Media that you would think he would recognize the need
for that and figure out how to do that more often. Again,
I don't need him to be wwe where.

Speaker 4 (01:07:58):
It's just like, okay, let's we'll sacrifice some booking logic
because we want to have a moment.

Speaker 3 (01:08:03):
I don't want that, but you should have more than
you do. It can't just be He just called collision
like this. It was like the greatest show or something
along those lines for this Saturday perfect from top to bottom. Wait,
it was better, but I'm sorry. If that's your idea
of perfection, then you're just gonna keep going down in

(01:08:26):
the viewership and in the rings.

Speaker 1 (01:08:30):
Anytime you're watching WWE Raw or SmackDown or aw Dynamite
in particular, send us an email if you've got thoughts
on the show or a topic you want us to
address or a question for us. Wadkeller Podcast at pw
torch dot com. Weadkeller Podcast at pew torch dot com.
If there's anything else going on in pro wrestling that
you want us to address on our main podcast during

(01:08:51):
our mailbank segments, that same email applies Wadkeller Podcast at
pw torch dot com. We invite that interaction. Let us
know what you think of what we're saying, and let
us know what you want us to talk about and
ask us specific questions. Wade Keller Podcast at pw toorch
dot com. What about the twenty three hundred arn A
setting chatting with somebody in AW who who thought? Maybe

(01:09:15):
that's an issue because when you talk about you put
on a good show that Tony kNN thinks is perfect.
But if your wrestlers don't seem like stars, they're just
good wrestlers who are being put on television. There's a
limited audience for that. You can put on a really
fundamentally sound or really athletically exciting, big stunt angles, compelling care,

(01:09:35):
but if they don't come across as stars, it doesn't
mean restlin fans won't watch. But there's a slice of
more casual the ardent fans will watch if they like
what you're delivering, but you're not going to reach that
large mainstream audience. There's too many things drawing your attention
for people to watch something that feel small time and
the wrestlers in that setting, as cool as it is
for people who have a soft spot and cool memories

(01:09:57):
of that building and know it's historically significant, it Darby
doesn't feel like a star Max, he doesn't feel like
a star hanging Maus feel like start coming out in
front of nine hundred people in that venue. So and
that is a that was always the concern going to
smaller venues is you have the downside of being in
a big venue and it's super dark and echoey and

(01:10:17):
it's embarrassing. But when you go to smaller venues, it
looks cool and you're you might please your that misophbi
bet might be better for this very steady six hundred
twenty thousand people they're drawing on average this year live
on TBS plus whatever's on HBO max R Yeah, on
HBO Max. But what about the Are there people peeling
off because they're just like Dody's so big time all

(01:10:38):
these stadium shows. It's ESPN, They're in Paris and there
and here and there. It's like it's so big and
you tune in to a w It's like I don't
feel like I'm watching something historically significant when they're in
this building. Is that a contributor the second weekend UH
to their viewership going down? Or is that something you
generally agree with But you don't think this rating is
really attributable to that significantly.

Speaker 3 (01:10:59):
I don't think it helps the first I think when
you do when you're gonna go to a building like
that that has the history, you do it once. If
you want to do it for collision, I guess fine,
you don't do a residency there. And that was my thing,
like coming out of the first Dynamite, like Wow, twenty
three hundred arenas never looked better because it has an
on TV. I think it looked great, but I just

(01:11:22):
kind of like that, are we gonna feel it this way?
You know, six shows from now and no, it still
looks great, but it's just it loses its appeal and
then you do start to the crowd becomes a little
tamer and it's just not the same. Yeah, And I mean,
really what they've done, I think it's cool they go
to unique, small venues.

Speaker 4 (01:11:42):
I like that kind of stuff. I mean, ideally they'd
be in an NBA sized venue and be selling it out.
But if you're not, this was the right move to make.
But again, don't do residencies and really tiny buildings. And also,
I mean, you're basically putting yourself in the same category.
Now you're not number two, you don't look any different.

(01:12:05):
Maybe it's a little glossier maybe than P and A
running the Armory in Minneapolis and NXT running their normal
venue and going back to full sale and now MLW
and CZW. I believe all these different promotions run twenty
three hundred arena. So if you're number two, but it
looks like what everybody else is doing, not that the

(01:12:26):
majority of the fans are watching some of those shows,
but the MLW's and the czws, what have you. But yeah,
you're you're just kind of defining yourself down in a
sense too that yeah, we're closer to these groups that
you consider inferior than we are to the big dog. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:12:43):
I think they should find a way to fit their
stadium shows in Texas and London on, Like in their
opening they should find excuses to include footage from video packages.
I mean, like remind people visual, this is a company
that has drawn big crowds in recent years. They are

(01:13:04):
not a small time company, and that can fight that
a little bit. But again, Tony's not visual. I mean
you want, like, you watch the NFL this weekend and
it's like they're showing the outside of the stadiums, not
just aeroshots, although they do that, but it's like, here's
the fans arriving. It's festivities, it's excitement, it's adrenaline. You're
part of something. And you see people dressed, you know

(01:13:25):
when they're in the dressed up in the jersey or
you know, wearing the jerseys and face paint whatever. It's
just like in activities where they had the Lambeau Leap
going on at one of the at for the Green
Bay I think it was at the Green Bay game.
Was it in Green Bay?

Speaker 4 (01:13:40):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (01:13:41):
Yeah, yeah, So the fans are doing like the Lambeau
Leap before the game outside and I think that's what
I saw it. But whatever, aw he's ever done that.
And they had this rabbid, enthusiastic fan base when they're
going to these big arenas and they just pointed the
camera at the ring. It hurt the sense that this
is a big time company that's taken on WWE and

(01:14:01):
they've lost that and I don't know that they could
get it back. I mean, it just it's it just
it just is the truth. Now Dodeby might be on
the verge a scale back too, because they're got a
little big for their bridges in certain ways. I don't
think I've said that phrase in like forty years or ever,
but they do. They just they're high on their own supply.
Oh YESPN, aren't we great? You know, it's like you
want to hype it, but you don't want to act

(01:14:22):
like you're giddy over the girls saying yes to go
on a date. And they're like, oh, I got a
DSPN and we're so excited. But when it gets down
to it, you know, Netflix numbers are mediocre. SmackDown had
a down week and then it popped because of aj Lee.
But you know, we'll see what's sustaining attendance. Anecdotally, you
see it. You know, they were down in Milwaukee compared
to the last time they're in that building by a
few thousand, and that's happening often. So who knows, maybe

(01:14:45):
they'll they'll you know, they'll hit a cold streak and
a will well, you know, strike something that catches fire.
I mean, it's not over, but right now, it's the
gap has never been bigger perception wise, and part of
that is that twenty three headed arena. In the residencies,
it is.

Speaker 3 (01:15:00):
Yeah, again, when you go there, make it count, make
it feel special. You know, you may sell that to
the audience that you know you're there one night only
ideally and just play up the history of the building.
Make it seem like there's a reason that you drop
down from your usual small venues even to an even
smaller one. But yeah, when you do that for.

Speaker 4 (01:15:20):
Residency, it's just it is too much. It's just I
get it.

Speaker 3 (01:15:26):
Saves them money, but I think it probably cost them
money in the long run by just creating that poor
perception of the overall company. I mean, I don't know
that this was a huge factor in that rating, but
I just even if it wasn't, I still think it
sends a poor message.

Speaker 1 (01:15:42):
And I mean it's just chipping away, you know, I
mean it's just chipping away over time. You know, they're
running these smaller venues. And I'm not even against running
the smaller venues, but you need to be like aware
that there could be a negative aspect and work hard
to fight it. More stadium footage when you go to
these buildings, embraced them, like celebrate them, instead of making

(01:16:03):
it seem like, oh, we don't want to draw attention
to it. What is twenty three hundred arena? Like they're
not even telling. It's just that assumed knowledge, constant assume
knowledge that people and want that they're Tony Conn's booking
is through the lens, is marketed to somebody who has
had the exact same fan experience for the exact same
time period that Tony con has. Yes, and that was

(01:16:23):
great six years ago. It was great, you know, at
different times, not just at the beginning, like it lasted
a while COVID sort of this weird you know interlude,
but it's it's starting. It's starting to pay a price
for that.

Speaker 3 (01:16:38):
I can't emphasize enough these eight person tag matches enough you,
I mean, every you're going to do them occasionally. I
get that, you know, we just had one on an
XTA last week, and it's going to happen, and they
can be entertaining in the moment. The crowds are always
going to pop because they're getting flip knives and everything else.

(01:16:59):
And you know they see this in person probably once,
maybe twice a year if you're lucky, and so they're
always going to react to it.

Speaker 4 (01:17:05):
The problem is when you're watching at home, you quickly
figure out that, okay, you know, we're gonna get the
rapid fire spot.

Speaker 3 (01:17:11):
So they all go back and forth. This guy's gonna
hit his move, the other guy, we're gonna get that.
To their credit, they finally didn't do that last week.
I was happy in the Dynamite version, but you just know,
like this is ultimately meaningless, that there's nothing at stake.
It's just randomness and great, there's a bunch of moves
and they might tell you a story if they decide

(01:17:33):
to add something to it, but they're just way too
content many times just to give you a finish and
move on, and there's nothing satisfying about it. It's really
a problem. And another thing, guys, you have a million
title belts. Quit making it so damn hard for your
talents to see it. Just you make it seem like
it's tough for them to get a title shot, which
may sound weird for me to say, because I do

(01:17:55):
think more often than not, there should be explanations. You know,
there should be reason somebody's getting a title shot, But
this is wrestling, and you can build those reasons in.
You could have a cocky heel champion decide that he's
going to defend his title against somebody tonight, that maybe
that person is not deserting but making a damn title match.
These proving ground matches, the eliminator matches. This week we

(01:18:18):
get a grudge match. It's it's empty and I don't
think you're going to convince the masses that there's going
to be a title change or anything, but at least
there's that possibility. It seems like a little thing, but
I would quit with all of that stuff. I mean,
occasionally have a non title match, but you do again,
and you have enough titles that you should be okay

(01:18:38):
with having some title matches on TV more often than
you do.

Speaker 1 (01:18:42):
Yeah, yes, well I want to shift anything else on
AW I should ask?

Speaker 4 (01:18:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:18:49):
I mean I feel bad again because I have like
the show. It's more of a presentation, the venue, the
formulaic approach of oh, you know, we're we don't It
just feels and I don't know this, but it does
feel like, all right, Tony doesn't know what to do.
Let's have an eight man tag, let's have an eight

(01:19:11):
woman tag, let's get more people on the show.

Speaker 4 (01:19:12):
And it doesn't ask a lot from him as a booker. Uh.
And it is a very busy time of year, I
assume for Tony, with you know, the multiple responsibilities with
the sports teams, which we don't know exactly what he does.
But still and yeah, and then.

Speaker 3 (01:19:29):
The addition of Brian Danielson didn't seem to mean anything
to the commentary team. I don't feel like they have
spotlighted that nearly enough. If you're gonna do it, you know,
make a big fuss over it. And I would introduce
him all of that and they have him make an
entrance and yeah, it's uh, they're trying things.

Speaker 4 (01:19:49):
Well, we'll see how that goes with Danielson.

Speaker 3 (01:19:52):
I like the idea of adding him to the team
and hopefully they will spotlight him to start.

Speaker 4 (01:19:57):
You know, you don't have to do it every week.
And I'm curious to see what the team is going to.

Speaker 3 (01:20:00):
Be A wait, is it as simple as Danielson, TAZ
and ex Caliber?

Speaker 4 (01:20:05):
Most likely?

Speaker 1 (01:20:06):
I'm curious to see what happens. I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:20:10):
Yeah, I would think that's it because Shimalani's already doing
collision with Nigel and so yeah, and then I mean
you've always got Rick Obonni doesn't want to work the
Saturdays on a weekly basis, so he's going to be
in the building for Dynamite when.

Speaker 4 (01:20:25):
There's our way. She do have him as a fallback.
But yeah, I mean you should be like, why is that.

Speaker 3 (01:20:31):
A big deal Tony, that that Brian Danielson is doing
this rather than just putting out the quick message on Twitter,
sell us on this and get us excited about it.
And even that, I don't know if that's enough to
like it seemed like it in part design because well
man ratings are down.

Speaker 4 (01:20:46):
This this might help.

Speaker 3 (01:20:47):
I don't know if that's it or not, but I
don't know that it's ultimately going to really matter. It's
it'll make the broadcast I hope, more enjoyable, but I
don't know that it's gonna be a ratings mover.

Speaker 1 (01:21:01):
I don't think Danilson's bad, but I don't think he's
great either.

Speaker 4 (01:21:05):
Yeah, I mean, and you know he'll get a chance
to get better.

Speaker 1 (01:21:09):
Yeah, well that's good.

Speaker 4 (01:21:10):
I think he's good.

Speaker 1 (01:21:11):
Yeah, I think he's good. Yeah, I mean I'm I
mean that, like, I think he's good, but like I
don't think, oh what a gat like he's going to
bring such personality and and he like I don't. I
just I don't think he's top level for the national

(01:21:33):
weekly cable show booking mind. I just I think you
read his book, you know his history. I just don't
think the lens through which he looks at wrestling is
is the this is I don't solution is a is
a big word to use, but a solution to get
aw back on track in terms of how to tell stories.
But maybe that'll change. If he's just a weekly fixture,
you know and and he kind of immerses himself in it.

(01:21:55):
I think he can give some good advice, but I mean,
I don't know. I don't see him on commentary being
this alpha voice who knows how to just guide the
product like I think. I think like Corey Grays feels
like as spotty as he is and or kind of
sometimes all over the place as a character. He's pro
heeled and anti heal tactics and that kind of thing,

(01:22:16):
and there's people in his headsets like he feels like
he's an advocate for a specific idea of what should
be how to amplify what's being done in a way
that puts it in the best light possible, Like I
think he thinks about it that way. Wade Barrett certainly does,
and I haven't seen as much that with Danis and

(01:22:36):
Danison kind of feels more like Brett Hart when you
be on commentary sort of in a meta observer putting
over some wrestling holds, but you know, a little more
casual and not taking it super seriously, like his pay
dependent upon him getting things over. So I'm curious it's
been up relatively small sample sides with him, So I'm
curious if it becomes his gig. If he goes okay,

(01:22:58):
I'm going to really take this as seriously as I
did being a great wrestler.

Speaker 3 (01:23:02):
I hope he does, and I hope he brings a
more sports like feel to the broadcast. And I think
if I'm curious, like, if it is Taz working with him,
what's the dynamic there, it just has become more of
the heel or do you know. I just I'm not
sure how that's gonna go. But I do think that
Taz lifestate'd be kind of chummy. As he's talked about,

(01:23:24):
he wants to be like the guy in the room
that you're watching wrestling with. But I'm hoping with Danielson
there that maybe that will the two of them will
just kind of bring out the let's present this as
a sport more than we tend to get. Like Tony
Shavani's a cheerleader and that's fine. So I think Danielson
just is already an upgrade over Tony is the third man.
I like Tony on Collision. I think he's fine as

(01:23:46):
the lead voice, but on Dynamite, it's just, oh, isn't
aw wonderful? I mean, it's just non stop, and so
I think Danielson's instantly an upgrade there. And but you know,
I also can't rule out that Taz is going to
Saturdays and it's going to be Cheval with Danielson and
an ex caliber, And then ex caliber is just I'll
use the word the kids use, He's just mid.

Speaker 7 (01:24:13):
I'm Chris Maitland and I'm Justin McClelland we host Wrestling
Coast to Coast, where we scour the wrestling scene to
find the best wrestling from the smallest places.

Speaker 8 (01:24:21):
There are thousands of matches happening every week, so Wrestling
Coast to Coast is here to discover the men and
women who could be big time stars in.

Speaker 4 (01:24:28):
A few years.

Speaker 7 (01:24:29):
There are plenty of podcasts to voters, to w W
and AW, but what's happening in the armories and gymnasium's
local wrestling hotspots around the country.

Speaker 8 (01:24:37):
We can't wait to help you find the true hidden
gems of the wrestling world. Plus, you can hear Chris
complain about bad referees.

Speaker 7 (01:24:43):
And justin bemoaning dog poal fins.

Speaker 8 (01:24:45):
Don't forget my feudal search to see a blue Thunderbomb
win a match.

Speaker 7 (01:24:48):
How can I like the name says we cover the
hottest independent promotions from around the country, such as Prestige Action,
West Coast Pro, Revolver, and Beyond Wrestling.

Speaker 8 (01:24:58):
Actually, Chris, I think we stick pretty much to wrestling.

Speaker 4 (01:25:00):
No, I mean Beyond Wrestling out of Wooster.

Speaker 7 (01:25:02):
Our show is part of the PW torch Daily Cast
lineup and typically drops on Thursdays. Search PW Torch in
your podcast app and subscribed to the PW Torch Daily
Cast or stream our shows directly from PW touch dot com.
Find full details on the PW Torch Dailycast lineup at
PW Torchdailycast dot com.

Speaker 1 (01:25:27):
Yeah, yep, no, he is. Uh. He serves some good purposes,
but he is also part of a problem of the
cool factor making the show more accessible, explaining things outside
of the core audience that likes what AW is doing,
and then making it feel you know, more more welcoming

(01:25:49):
and inviting and and just helping, yeah, helping bring new
people in. It's just not he's not wired for that.
And then vocally the inflections are still just so annoying,
like he thinks about exclamation marks at the end of
words instead of a natural way just due there's again,
he's not He's not the worst announcer in the world.
He's just an average announcer. But there are some flaws

(01:26:12):
that I think cost a E W and uh. But man,
I would produce him to change his inflections from sounding
phony and performative and more natural.

Speaker 3 (01:26:25):
Have you noticed you catch the podcast team a lot
more than I do. Have you noticed like areas of
improvement or is my perception interest He's the same guy
who was when he started.

Speaker 1 (01:26:34):
He's largely the same guy. Yeah, yeah, so yeah. When
when Tony conn was talking on the Battleround podcast about
the change, he's like, he thinks people will want to
tune in to listen to Brian Daniels and talk about
the product. And you know he said he's he's a star,
but he's intelligent, has insightful things to say when he
does talk. So yeah, I just we'll see how he
is putting over storylines and and you know, framing new characters,

(01:26:57):
and he might end up being really good. You know,
on bit in Door it was fine, but it's it's
blowoff matches. You know, it's its main event. Let's just
call a match, And there's more too enhancing a product
than that, and I don't think he got specific about
you know who we'd be replacing. So yeah, I'm I'm
curious curious about that.

Speaker 4 (01:27:16):
If nothing else, at some point, doesn't that to be
right away? I need a Bear. I need Daniel Brian Danielson.

Speaker 3 (01:27:23):
To be doing commentary about bears again, because that was
one of the all time highlights of WWE commentary.

Speaker 4 (01:27:29):
It shouldn't happen weekly, but it should happen once.

Speaker 1 (01:27:32):
You speaking of Daniels and by the way, you said
you want to see Doctor Shelby back, I feel like
I broke some people's hearts last night on the On
the Rock, the Weak Color Post show covering Raw when
I was like, I don't want Doctor Shelby to come
back for a j Lee. I don't want Doctor Shelby
stuff on wrestling. I know people have.

Speaker 4 (01:27:47):
Like, no, I've been able to listen to the show.

Speaker 1 (01:27:50):
Yeah, I know people have fond memories ooh yucking it
up with some comedy, and I know the writers are
delighted when they can do sketch comedy and people love
all that. But it's like it's it's not as bad
as a Bailey stuff because the Bailey stuff is being
presented in a more serious way and and the but
when you have like a fake doctor in a fake
office doing a fake sketch comedy routine, it has this,

(01:28:12):
you know, like it's fun. I'm not saying it's not entertaining,
and I'm not saying people should hate watch it or
resent watching it, like enjoy what you enjoy. But I'm
just stepping back and going, I think when you get
that corny, it it it it dulls the the It

(01:28:33):
dolls the knife that used to carve out storylines and
people are invested in because you're just saying this is
all a joke. Sure, and and I just I don't
think on balance, even if in and of itself it
has a positive I think the Bailey storyline is positive
for Bailey, but I think it's bad for for the
for the the integrity of of of the narrative world
they create that they're that they're doing this. And I

(01:28:57):
felt that way about Doctor Shelby too.

Speaker 4 (01:29:01):
Yeah, I mean that's fair. I was like mostly joke.

Speaker 1 (01:29:04):
Oh no, no, I didn't really mean either way. I
just wanted to bring that up here, like Danielson has
been part of some stuff. Well, you said, I wanted
more sports like feel, and I'm like, well, you brought it.
Danielson loved doing that. It seemed like I don't. Sometimes
it feels like Danielson just thinks he takes his matches seriously,
but isn't really think through philosophically, like how do you

(01:29:25):
what goes beyond just having a match of the year,
you know, like, oh, I want to leave. I have
these dream matches. And he'll like submit a casual audience
to something that he cares about, but it doesn't have
widespread appeal, and he won't do the work to make
it have widespread appeal. And it feels sort of selfish
to be I want to wrestle. This guy put it
on TV, but not a pay per view right and

(01:29:46):
and it's it's it's fine. I mean, it's one of
the reasons he left out of me is that that
was a creative freedom he'd be given. It didn't do damage,
But it's revealing to me that it doesn't like seem
to be a priority for him to go. Let's let's
make this bigger, and let's have a integrity to the
narrative structure so that we can have titles that mean
something and characters that are believable and not just decide

(01:30:08):
that we're going to just go off and do some sidebar,
yuck it up comedy routine that undercuts any sense of
seriousness on the rest of the show. I don't mean
to be take away people's fun. I'm not saying it's
not fun to watch it as a fan. Please enjoy
and embrace it. But I think on balance, when you
stray into that territory that's like going to be fun.
If we did this, it would be, but at what price?

(01:30:29):
And like the Bloodline was serious, you know what I mean,
Like that drew money. Cody was serious as a champion,
and that journey was serious. That drew money. I just
don't think things that are yuck it up entertaining actually
help business. I think they're just fond memories for people
who happen to be watching for other reasons. But it
undercuts everything. It can't be proven, but I don't think

(01:30:49):
it's absurd to posit that.

Speaker 4 (01:30:52):
Yeah, I get what you're saying.

Speaker 1 (01:30:54):
Yeah, all right. I went to a couple of TENA
shows last week, Jason and back to back in Minneapolis
at the former home of the Lakers, where they won
NBA titles. They played it within the Forum, the Mine
the Minneapolis Armory, which, by the way, I think spend
decades as a parking garage before they refurbished it. I

(01:31:15):
think I remember walking by there and it was just
like park here all day for twenty dollars. It is
a gorgeous facility with what they've done with it. First class,
Like there's no nicer public bathrooms in any venue. I
shouldn't say that. I don't haven't been every Vedee, but
like really high end everything. The two sides of the
whole venue are like the longest bars you'll ever see

(01:31:36):
on both sides. And I've been joking, like the bartender
to fan ratio was about ten to one, Like there
was one bartender for every ten fans in that building.
And I'm telling you one, two, three, four, us fifteen thirty.
They're thirty bartenders nine hundred people in the building, so
literally there was one bartender for every thirty people. Nice
and they weren't busy. They're just standing around talking to

(01:31:56):
each other. Watching It was kind of fun sometimes just
watching them react to the matches because they're not fan,
but they're reacting to promos and stuff, so super cool atmosphere.
But it was a time capsule wrestling, like it's just
a but it's not. There weren't like New Japan g
one wrestlers, you know, like there weren't Match of the

(01:32:17):
Year candidate wrestlers on that shows. It's a bunch of
you know, journeymen and you know, sort of up and
comers who just happened to not Land and out of
beer or aw and it was fun like there wasn't
a single this is awesome chant for any wrestling move
or match just when the Dudleys and the Hardys were
in the ring. But the crowd is just into the characters.
They were reacting to it in an immersive way, delighting

(01:32:41):
and seeing the heels get their asses kicked. And you know,
Eric Young was effective in that way, Kaz was affected
effective that way. The heels were being timeless, traditional effective
heels and for a i'd say little budget show, but
I mean it was it was slick. I mean, they
know what they're doing, you know, really good ring entrances

(01:33:02):
and great venue speakers, big screen, good ring. I mean
everything was just you know, classy and professional. But the
the shows that I watched, you could lift it and
You could airlift it into nineteen ninety five and drop
it in and you wouldn't be like, WHOA, this is
different than what we're seeing in nineteen ninety five. You
could pretty much drop into eighty five, throw it on

(01:33:24):
ESPN in the afternoons and it would work. Like a
lot of that stuff is just the territory booking approach,
and it's on of necessity. I don't think philosophy. I
just don't think they have the talent to have great matches.
You know, the Rascals can go out there and do
nice high spots, but they don't. But it's just yeah,

(01:33:44):
it was just simple basic storytelling. So that's what I took.
And I don't watch nearly as much TNA in my
schedule as you do, Jason. But how does my take
seeing it in person, watching the crowd reactions and mercy
myself for a couple of nights for you know, three
four hours each night in it, How does that match
up with your viewing of it on television. That Yeah,

(01:34:07):
there's lance later in the Rascals, but mostly it's journeymen
sort of ground based wrestlers doing time capsule wrestling.

Speaker 3 (01:34:15):
It's become that you know, losing well, Josh Alexander kind
of fit that scription anyway, Yeah, losing Mike Bailey, he
certainly had that style, and there have been others, but
it's been that for a while, even through multiple creative changes.
Now it's just kind of their style, and I like it.

(01:34:36):
I don't know if it's just a conscious thing to
carry it over or if it's just this is the
preferred style of the people who end up in charge
of that company, but I do appreciate it. I like
the straightforward babyface heel approach. It's pretty rare in TNA

(01:34:58):
that you'll see the fans like turning.

Speaker 4 (01:35:00):
On a babyface.

Speaker 3 (01:35:01):
You know, they may not be local, they don't care
for the baby face, but they don't really turn on
them if they're not given a Q two and and
they blew.

Speaker 4 (01:35:10):
The heels by and large. Yeah, it is a it's
kind of wild that it's like that that they That's
kind of the thing that I've appreciated about this t
and A resurgence is that it is just more basic
wrestling with without some of the it's just easy to follow.

(01:35:31):
It's yeah, yeah, it's just a simp a simple, well
booked for the most part, product.

Speaker 1 (01:35:37):
Yeah, like people hanging out, you know, being a journalists
over eavesdropping on fans leaving the building, and like the
comments I heard were consistent when people were talking about
the show, which is that was really fun, That was
that was that was exciting. I'm glad we came. It
was a good deal. Like people are talking about the
ticket price, the value they got for their money and
just sort of like like not I wouldn't say they're surprised,

(01:35:58):
but like these are people who either watched T and
A or don't. The comments were you know, a mix
restings in time, let go see it versus I'm you know,
a huge TNA fan. But you know, people reacted to
Joe Henry of course, but and you know they reacted
to some of the homegrown stars, but they also just
reacted organically to something where you could drop a fan
who had never been there and they just know, I'm
supposed to be Eric Young Kaz is full of himself

(01:36:22):
and and I want to see him get get bumped,
you know. And uh uh Santana is a cool dude,
and he's a leader and he seems like a nice guy.
Like you just everybody had these kind of turn key
personas that weren't one dimensional. But they didn't take two

(01:36:43):
months of watching nuanced promost to understand either. And yeah,
it was just you know it. It tapped into you know,
the championships mattered, personal grudges mattered, baby faces and heels
were clear, and it just people reacted organically and escaped
into that world. And that's what I'm an avo good for.
And I was like, yeah, this is this is you

(01:37:04):
know they've again, I think it's out of necessity, not philosophy,
more so, you know, who do we have and how
do we make the best of them? But I think
it's some creative people behind the scenes too. I mean,
you know, Tommy Dreamer isn't a traditionalist. You know, he'll
do things just because it'll get a reaction, like that's
his reputation. Like oh, but I don't get a crowd reaction,
Like I don't think he's like a super deep thinker

(01:37:26):
in that way where I'm going to attribute this to
some you know, great visionary but I think there's enough
people with you know, voices that are steering it in
a direction that takes advantage of talent they have in
a timeless way that's easy to understand, but also not
just so dumb down that it's not it's not interesting.

(01:37:47):
So yeah, that was It was a fun experience. We're
about to go to a commercial break. Why lessen of
commercial breaks when you can go v ip and experience
our shows with the ads and plugs removed. Pw torch
dot com slash go vi i P that's pw torch
dot com slash go VIP for full details, or go
to Patreon Patreon dot com slash pw Torch. VIP rate

(01:38:08):
start as low as four dollars in ninety nine cents
to remove the ads and plugs. For Patreon, full VIP
membership starts at nine dollars in ninety nine cents. Treat
yourself to a streamlined, ad and plug free listening experience
with a VIP or Patreon membership.

Speaker 3 (01:38:24):
And you're not going to get this from the attending
the taping. But the broadcast team is they fit right
in with everything you're describing. It's yep, you know, they
they call the action in a believable way. It's they
treat it like it's a sport. Even you know, there's
some silly stuff they'll.

Speaker 4 (01:38:41):
You know, they'll acknowledge it, but they don't go to.

Speaker 3 (01:38:43):
You know, they don't go overboard and like acting like
it's the most hilarious thing in the world. So yeah,
I mean, I don't know why WWE let Tom Hanifan go.
I'd heard there was some political stuff there, which is
just looking back, like, wow, you guys blew that, considering
who you kept instead. But they also getting Matt Reewalds

(01:39:05):
I think has really been a nice addition. He's not
a guy that people remember all that well for the
inn ring career. I mean it was a vaud villain,
you know, and and you know, I think people may
remember him, but it's not like you know, you think.

Speaker 1 (01:39:19):
Of Aiden English for those who don't, yes, exactly.

Speaker 3 (01:39:22):
Yeah, and you know, and he comes in, it's like, Okay,
we got a vaude villain doing color commentary.

Speaker 4 (01:39:28):
How is this going to go? He's been really really good.
Those two together are amongst my favorite broadcast teams easily.
I'm trying to think of who I enjoy I mean,
right there, I would say with Tessitorn Barrett as my
preferred broadcast. I do like Cole and Graves together as well,

(01:39:48):
but we don't get that pairing as often as.

Speaker 1 (01:39:50):
I would like one of the highlights. And I don't
think they were a plan who goes on the road
as they picked a couple of fans out. This is
during commercial breaks and during the live show, I think,
or between tapings whatever it was, and they had a
uh picked up fans who who could I don't win
the T shirt or something camember what it was, but
imitate Jeff Hardy's ring entrance. And there was this guy
and it was just basically like, uh, you know what,

(01:40:14):
ud chubby dude, not you know, not a traditional stud
or jock. And I think they picked him up because
they thought this would be funny and embarrassing for him.
And he did the Jeff Hart thing and he was great,
cool down, perfect and the crowd was popping for it.

(01:40:35):
So you know, they had some you know, had some
fun stuff too. I mean they had the star power.
You know, it was the Hearty's and and Team three D,
the Dudley's. You know, depending on you know what you're
watching and who you think are are the biggest stars.
You know, it's kind of you know, pick your spot.
Mister Anderson uh came back and and did the main
event match one night that I.

Speaker 4 (01:40:56):
Was gonna ask was that darker? Was that actually for
the show?

Speaker 1 (01:40:58):
You know, you know, I was assuming it was, and
but I think it was actually for the show when
I get because everything was running production wise. Oh good, Yeah,
so yeah, I think they're going to feature that on TV.

Speaker 4 (01:41:08):
Wait. I looked it up. The last time I was
in the Minneapolis Auditorium.

Speaker 1 (01:41:11):
Yeah, I was.

Speaker 3 (01:41:13):
Fourteen years old April nineteenth, nineteen eighty seven. It was
Easter Sunday Awa Tag team tournament when Kurt had a
turd deal.

Speaker 1 (01:41:21):
You know what, though, you're confusing two buildings.

Speaker 4 (01:41:24):
No, I looked it up even on uh the but.

Speaker 1 (01:41:27):
The Minneapolis Armory and Minneaplisaudatorium are separate. The minipis right,
that was the right name on me. Yep, mind storm
was raised and it's now where the you know, semi
new convention center is.

Speaker 3 (01:41:38):
Oh so that's where the okay, because convention centers where
Jerry Lynd's retirement was, right, Yes, yeah, okay, Yeah, I'm.

Speaker 4 (01:41:44):
Happy you called me on that. Well, i'd yep completely
off on that.

Speaker 1 (01:41:47):
Yep. So minnaf's armories on the north side of Minneapo
is it, I guess it's north side by the River
and the convention sider of the miniapsodatorum Is is on
the south side by thirty five.

Speaker 4 (01:41:55):
Well, now, I wonder if I've ever even been there.

Speaker 1 (01:41:57):
I had not been until the Yep, it was that.
It was a parking rep. It was a parking garage
forever before that. It was before that it was tough
for military people to do training. It's an armory. I
don't training, but like, yeah, so you know and then
or you know that it's built to be like a
bunker if you need it. But yeah, it was. The
Lakers played in that in the in the whatever, late

(01:42:17):
fifties into the sixties. It was their initial home.

Speaker 4 (01:42:20):
And is the Auditoreium gone then? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:42:23):
Yeah, they tore that down to build a convention center. Gotcha,
But the Lakers played in the armory I think maybe
before I think they also played in the Minneapolis Auditorium.
Where did the Minneapolis Lakers play? Let's see if no
AI did not give us, uh, yeah, I was a

(01:42:48):
home from forty seven to fifty nine as a hard
time home and then the primary home for home in
fifty nine and sixties, So I'm assuming part time meant
they were playing both the Armory and the auditorium during
those years.

Speaker 3 (01:43:02):
Okay, George Micah, Yes, that's and said Hartman owned part
of the team. That's as much as they can tell
you about the Minneapolis.

Speaker 1 (01:43:10):
Like while doing journalism, which is always good.

Speaker 3 (01:43:12):
Yes it would, I mean hasn't been going that long,
but yeah, with the modern quote unquote journalism right in.

Speaker 1 (01:43:21):
Oh Wikipedia, NBA's Minneapolis Lakers played in the Minnaipis Auditorium
from forty seven until they moved to the Armory in
fifty nine, So they did some games in the armory
but mostly in the auditorium until fifty nine. And so
that's weird because there's no way the armory hold held

(01:43:41):
ten thousand people. The auditorium held ten thousand people, but
the armory where the taping was for TNA and NXT
had the plither that that maxes out, you know, run
three thousand for concerts and a lot less when there's
actual chairs set down. So anyway people can do their
own research that they want more details on too, Arenas
than even you. We're very we're at the end of
the show here with a very micro audience. We're off

(01:44:04):
on a going down a rabbit hole here, So yeah,
I don't know. I don't know. Ye know, I did
a talked on the Way Color Hotline for VIP members
about my t and a experience with some more anecdotes
and stuff, So people can't listen to that, all right,
So we're going to wrap up the main part of
the show there pw toorch VIP members and dot net
members stay tuned because we're going to roll right into

(01:44:27):
a forty minute VIP exclusive after show in which we
cover some topics mostly coming from emails. By the way,
speaking of which, if you ever send us an email
to the flagship and you're not a VIP member or
dot net member, you can specify please include in the
free portion of the show, because we don't want you
to miss out on getting your email answer. Just sometimes
we don't get to them until we get to the

(01:44:49):
end of the kind of window for the free show,
and then we just make that the VIP after show.
So topics in the VIP after show are come from
email regarding Stephanie va Kerr. Could Gabe Kid take over
for John Oxley take over the Death Rider Sir John Moxley,
which would free up Moxley to add some depth to
the thin out death Rider faction, also the vision as

(01:45:10):
a name. Is it good? Should they have been the Visionaries?
Also seth Rollins faking knee injury and also trying to
work his colleagues. Our thoughts on that, and then we
get into some stuff on John Cena that wasn't part
of the mailbag, including the mattress sammus Ain and an
improvement on his interview content stepping away from the metastuff,
and why I liked quite a bit the Friday promo

(01:45:31):
that Sena did after ranting about the previous one he
did on days earlier. So anyway, those are some of
the topics in the VIP after show. If you're not
a VIP member, PW Torch dot com, slash go VIP.
If you're not a dot net member, encourage you to
support Jason and what he does that just go to
PW Membership dot net PW membership dot net for full

(01:45:54):
details on becoming a dot net member. All right, so
here go with the VP after show for those of
you who are members. Otherwise, guys, thank you everybody for
listening and we'll talk to.

Speaker 4 (01:46:02):
You next time.

Speaker 1 (01:46:20):
Invite you to email the show with feedback or questions.
Or comments. That email address is Wade Keller Podcast at
pewtorch dot com. That's Wadekeller Podcast at PW torch dot com.
Also welcome your feedback on Twitter. You can follow us
on Twitter at pw torch and follow me at the
Wade Keller That's at PW torch and at the Wade Keller.

Speaker 4 (01:46:42):
Searching for more great pro wrestling talk, then join me.
Jason Powell host them the three weekly Pro Wrestling Boom Podcast.
Each week, he'll hear the latest news and analysis from
me and my team at Pro Wrestling dot need along
with other pro wrestling media members. Plus, the Pro Wrestling
Boom Podcast features long form interviews with notable names in
the pro wrestling industry. Subscribe and iTunes nit your downcast

(01:47:04):
and all your favorite secondary apps, or visit us directly
at PW boom dot com. Once again, that's PW boom
dot com.

Speaker 1 (01:47:13):
Thanks for listening to our podcast. Did you know we
also have a website pw toorch dot com. Daily news updates, editorials,
and my live TV coverage covering Raw, Dynamite and SmackDown
and my live pay per view coverage for WWE and AEW.
Create a tab or bookmark. Make it a daily stop.
Visit us throughout the day every day to keep up
on breaking news and more. That's pw torch dot com.

Speaker 5 (01:47:37):
Meet an extra dose of positivity in your wrestling podcasts.
Will come join me alanforel Over in the Progress Paradise
at pterew Torch VIP as we mask on the bright
side of wrestling and focus on some of the great
matches and shows from around the world, be it US, Japan,
Europe or Mexico. There's always a place for wrestlings past

(01:47:58):
and the paradise too, and we've done fun historical shows
such as the We Love Liger series celebrating the glorious
career of Jusian thunder Lighter and our I Was There
When shows where our guests will join me to talk
about a classic bout that they were in attendance for.
We love variety and you can expect lots of it
at the Progress Paradise. Detailed PW tors VIP subscription information

(01:48:21):
and a list of all the VIP benefits is available
at pww torch vipinfo dot com. And yes, all VIP
podcasts are compatible with popular podcast apps on iPhone and
Android devices. Or you can stream them directly from our
ad free VIP mobile site, see you in the Paradise.

Speaker 1 (01:48:41):
One way that you can help us sustain our schedule
of putting out podcasts throughout the week is by giving
us a five star rating on Apple Podcasts. Just go
to Apple Podcasts and look for our Weight Taller Pressing
podcast and Weightkeller Prossing Post show and give us a
five star rating. We hope you think we've earned that
score with our fast turnaround times and our quantity and
quality of wrestling analysis throughout the week. So take a

(01:49:02):
moment out for us and do us favor and give
us a five star rating and Apple podcast that helps
us on search returns and helps us grow. And if
you want, you can add a few comments about what
you like about the programs in the comments section. Thank
you so much.

Speaker 9 (01:49:18):
In twenty twelve, NXT transitioned into the developmental system and
ultimately the brand you see today. On the Torch VIP
podcast NXT eight years Back, we'll be taking a weekly
look at this page in NXT's early history.

Speaker 10 (01:49:33):
Join Kelly Wells and me Tom Stout from PWT Talks
NXT every Saturday as we go eight years back to
the day to track NXT's rising talents and why they
did or didn't work out exclusively for pw Torch VIP members.

Speaker 1 (01:49:47):
A pw Torch VIP membership doesn't just give you add
free access to these shows and a ton of other
VIP exclusive podcasts throughout the week, but you also gain
access to our unmatched vast library of wrestling history, our
contemporaneous week to week coverage through our p wrestling Torch
weekly newsletters dating back to the late nineteen eighties, along
with streaming and download access to hundreds of retro radio
shows from the nineteen nineties, including some of my interviews

(01:50:09):
with wrestling's top newsmakers in the nineties, and also our
podcast library dating back to the year two thousand and three.
There's no larger, longer spanning pro wrestling podcast library than
that that comes with a PW Torch VIP membership. Now
approaching twenty years of podcasting, go VIP and dive into
our post pay per view roundtables are covered with some
of your favorite eras of wrestling, top name long form interviews,

(01:50:33):
and special format podcasts that we've done throughout the years.
Pw torch dot com slash go VIP. We have a
streamline sign up for me and you can pay with
PayPal or directly with your credit card or debit card.
In one or two minutes from right now, you can
be a VIP member and diving into our library. PW
torch dot com, slash go vip

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist

Crime Junkie

Stuff You Should Know

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}NEW FLAGSHIP: Keller & Powell discuss AJ Lee's big impact on her return, Jey-Knight-Jimmy, Wardlow injury, Danielson on commentary

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist

Crime Junkie

Stuff You Should Know

All Episodes

NEW FLAGSHIP: Keller & Powell discuss AJ Lee's big impact on her return, Jey-Knight-Jimmy, Wardlow injury, Danielson on commentary

CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist