NEW FLAGSHIP: Keller & Powell preview Saturday Night's Main Event, Cena-Dom potential, Moxley post-WrestleDream, Rotunda

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 2 (01:06):
Now PW Torch and Spreaker bring you the Wade Killer
Pro Wrestling Podcast. It's time for the weekly flagship talking
current events in pro wrestling.

Speaker 1 (01:21):
All right, Jason, Let's start with Saturday's made event coming
up this Saturday, coincidentally on Peacock, Cody Roads, Drew McIntyre
Doughby Championship. I'm curious what they do Friday. I thought
they've done a nice job building it up, but it
doesn't feel I mean, it feels Saturday's made event worthy
at this point just sort of relegated to Peacock. The

(01:44):
term I used yesterday for Drew mctire and I think
others have brought up to is he's sort of always
the bridesmaid, never the bride. He's like that guy you
can imagine winning the world title, but that you don't
sense dought he's really gonna build around him, or that
he's gonna be the guy to unsee Cody. I'd like
that feeling to change. I think there's an enough there
with him. Where are you now on him? In his carriers,
Roman rains his age. He's not at the tail end

(02:06):
of his career, but he's deep into it. Do you
think they've just sort of decided he's going to be
what he is, which is a top tier guy, but
not really someone they believe in to be the top,
top guy who carries the belt for a while.

Speaker 3 (02:18):
You know, I think on that side of things. On
the SmackDown side, that's the role. But if he does
get moved raw, I think the World Heavyweight Championship might
be different.

Speaker 1 (02:29):
Yeah, but it's funny because that's even does apply them.
If he's only the world champion, then he's Jayson Sure,
you know, or he's Gunther you know. And I have
high hopes for Kunthro, but I don't think they I
don't think there's excited about gun Thro as the airprop
run breaker for instance.

Speaker 3 (02:44):
Yeah, it'd be interesting, like if Cody were to cool off,
I'm guessing Punk would probably be next in line. I'm
just trying to think of like top full well, and
Punk's not even full time. I'm trying to think of
like top full time baby faces. Drew's on that list.
I think he's pretty high. If they, you know, obviously
would have to turn. But if they're looking for somebody

(03:05):
to build around, I do think Drew would be someone
they would consider. I just think there's kind of a
roadblock because Cody's title reign has gone so well it is.

Speaker 1 (03:12):
Yeah, and that's the sort of bridesmaide bride thing. There's
always somebody else, Like you think back to the Survivor
series was it twenty twenty COVID where it's like, oh,
Roman against Drew. There both were like peaked peak world
champions in with you know, the two belts, which he
always diminishes their value if there's two of them. But
the universal title was more you know, more cherished and
featured and coveted and all that undisputed. Thank you, Yes

(03:35):
it is. It is is nobody's disputing it despite them
having two worldhouse and it was like.

Speaker 3 (03:40):
Right and undisputed whenever antioned.

Speaker 1 (03:42):
I think yes, And I went into that going Roman
can handle a lotus. Let Drew get a win. It's
non title that'll that'll give you two stars. But they
went with and I understand the argument. Obviously they went
with Roman. They just he was a draw. They really
really believed in him. But it does seem like Drew
is just perception wise. It's it's interesting to pick up

(04:03):
on how management feels about a wrestler and they don't.
It doesn't seem like they're seeking opportunities to have him
leap frog some of the names you just mentioned. You
know that something would have to go wrong, and is
that wrong? Like would you would you if if Cody.
I'm trying to think, let's let's say Cody got hurt.
I don't want to, Like I was trying to think,
is we're not the way to do this. But if

(04:24):
Cody got injured, rather than turned or cooled off where
they're just they're scrambling, Seth is out, Cody is out.
Like how you mentioned some other names, It's like, at
one point, would they just go, Drew's our guy. We're
going to build around him like he's our starter, our quarterback,
our starting quarterback, our top top guy. No more hedging,
and they went all in with him? What would limit him?

(04:45):
Is there something? Because he's so good at a number
of things? But is there something about him that isn't
great at anything other than looking like he'd be the
centerpiece of a prosing company? Is is there?

Speaker 3 (04:59):
Is that? It?

Speaker 4 (05:00):
Is?

Speaker 1 (05:00):
He just come ten to twenty percent or two percent
short of being great at that marketable hook to get
people to tune in? Is that what's happening? And I
asked genuinely because I'm trying to and not that I'm
rooting for against, I'm just trying to evaluate why does
he always just see that notch below there's always one
or two people prioritized above him.

Speaker 3 (05:18):
Well, I think it's timing. I do think that he
was their guy when he beat Lesner. It just was
unfortunate circumstances with the pandemic and everything happening at the
Performance Center. And then it was very strange though, when
they decided they're going to open WrestleMania with him at
the Raymond James Stadium in Tampa, and it's like, oh,

(05:40):
that's cool, he's going to face Lastly and he'll get
that moment at least, And then they had Lastly beat him.
They're like, huh, I didn't really understand that one. But
it wasn't too damaging. But yeah, I think like his
time was there. It just was awful timing as they'd
lean into in the storyline. And it will there be
another time. I don't know, because I could see a

(06:01):
scenario where, like you say, something happens with Cody and
they go with Drew. I think they're always going to
be looking for that next guy rather than thinking Drew
is our guy.

Speaker 1 (06:11):
Yeah, and I mean it's nice to have a really
good backup, but what you just described as a backup,
and he wasn't in that one window and it happened
to be COVID. So yeah, I mean it's it's timing,
you know, I mean a lot of it is timing.
Because his matches are good, his promos are good, he
has a good look, he's versatile as a face or
a heel. I just yeah, I'm I'm every every once

(06:34):
in a while, every couple months, the kind of revisit this.
But he since he's coming up on Saturday in what
Joe Tessitour on Raw, on a show built entirely around
the vacant world title, he called Cody Drew the big One.

Speaker 3 (06:47):
I heard you mention that on your I missed it live,
and I just like shook my head, like really, Joe.

Speaker 1 (06:51):
Yeah, I mean, I know Cody's your guy, but it's
a vacant world title and then it's an also ran
challenger and Drew. That feels a little patchy, kind of
like Simo, Joe did not like, this is our big
few that we believe in, just kind of like a
bridge to get somewhere else. So we could be wrong,
you know, they might have. It might be a trilogy
or something. So let's talk about the other guy in

(07:14):
the main event here, the Big One in the Big
One Cody.

Speaker 3 (07:16):
If I could really quickly, I think the damage they
did to Drew is having him lose that wrestled Palos
a clean I don't know why they did that other
than I think they marked out for being on ESPN.
I really do, and they felt like they had to
have this clean finish and the baby face goes over strong.
But it wasn't that time in the program. It just
was like early, you guys are doing this now, huh,
You're now what for Cody? Because once that happened, it

(07:39):
was like there must have somebody else in mind, and
here they are going back to Drew and expecting people
to see things. They think that things might go differently
for some reason. They they're just there hasn't been anything
in the storytelling that's made you think like it might.
I'm even waiting, like on Friday for there to potentially
be like an injury angle with Cody or something just

(07:59):
to could seem like there's some chance that Drew might win.

Speaker 1 (08:03):
Yeah, And that's why I led with you know, we
got to see what happened because I'm with you on this.
We got to see what they do Friday to heat
this up because it's just not quite there because you
know why, why is in your mind You're like, why
should we think Drew has a better chance to win.
I'm I don't think there was a cascade effect of
Seth's injury that changed who Cody would be facing here

(08:25):
because there's the brand issue. But I'm trying to think
if like there was some cascade effect where Drew was
sort of like I believe some o Joe was a
patch for Wardlow. I think Wardlow was, you know, total,
He's going to get a title shot this year. It
was penciled in, and it made sense that Joe felt
so out of nowhere that probably this would have been
Wardlow's month, and then that's where Joe kind of felt
like out of nowhere. I'm trying to think with Drew,

(08:45):
if it's out of nowhere or they maybe were gonna
skip Cody having a match and then they're like, no,
let's do it. We'll just do it a Drew rematch
to strengthen the card because of seths injury. So maybe
Cody's on the card just because Seth was injured. But
then that's so heavy raw and light on SmackDown in
terms of the lineup, and they want to balance that
out somewhat on these pls.

Speaker 3 (09:02):
Yeah, boy, but you would think they would have something
else going for Cody. But I guess that could have
been like a big SmackDown match. If they weren't gonna
have Cody on, that would be more acceptable right now.
I mean, I hope they can heat back and tire
up in a big way. I think he's great, but yeah,
damage was done with just having him lose, and it

(09:23):
was just like an after like okay, I grew lost
and there just was nothing to it. And then they
tried to heat it up again. And it's tough to
heat things up when you've already shown that the baby
face can beat the heel clean.

Speaker 1 (09:37):
Yeah, but when you look at the lineup, I mean
on the spack down side of things, if not Drew,
then it's what Alistair black Sola so CooA one of
his underlings. I mean, it's not as beding event on Peacock.
I mean, you could have put him against jac Matteo
and you know, done a quick angle. But otherwise what
the miz. I mean, there's no depth on the smack
down hillside. I mean that's it. You know, you could

(10:00):
break up a tag team. You could do Champa or
something against it. But I mean there's nobody other than
Drew for sentence for sense unless you do a baby
face matchup. And it would have been fine. I mean
if Ray Phoenix won some you know, gottlet eliminator or
something and like, oh, let's just let's just do it.
It'd be a fun change of pace for Cody, kind
of like you know, Sammy had a variety of opponents
in the US title up and challenge, but there's there's

(10:22):
just nobody. I could have brought Shinsky in as a
heel and have him do some you know, rushed angle
where Cody's like, I know I'm not schedul to side
top an event, but I want I want to get
him in the ring. And and you know, Nick All
this goes well, you know Peacock wants a title match.
You want going to put the title on the line.
I don't know, I'm just winging it here. You know,
they it's a kind of microwave something. But you know
they had different idea for Nakamura. So I I look

(10:43):
at this lineup and there's just nobody that makes sense
that they skipped over to go to Go with Drew,
but you would think they would have planned ahead enough
to know to not to not have Drew's look, you know,
look like he's beneath him. And then but then what
you do across brand, microwave, AGL or what. That's what
I'm trying to piece together. So it's it's it's weird.

Speaker 3 (11:04):
Yeah, I mean seriously, like looking at the lineup right
now and not including Room and because I don't they're
not going to go there with that match anytime soon.
That's a WrestleMania match SummerSlam at the very lowest on
the pecking order. I mean seriously, you can make a
case that the most believable heel behind Drew McIntyre is

(11:24):
a challenger for because Kevin Owens is out of the picture. Yeah,
it's Nick Oldys. I'm not even kidding. You could turn
Gamian priest and you'd have something there, but it yeah,
it is really wow. That's uh, it's thin on the
heel side.

Speaker 1 (11:39):
Well, I don't think they want to do Alister Black
quite yet because that that that went wrong for Cody
in AW. I don't know if Alison's in the same
I think the fan base is different and Cody's in
a different place. But okay, I'm gonna talk about Cody,
but let's pause and introduce ourselves here because we're at about
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with a VIP or Patreon membership. This is the Way
Keller prog Wrestling Podcast, the Tuesday flagship edition for October
twenty eighth, twenty twenty five. I'm Way Keller, host of
the show, the editor, publisher and founder of the Pro
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(12:44):
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(13:07):
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sample of some of our VIP exclusives. The other voice

(13:50):
you hear on today's show is Jason Powell from Pro
Wrestling dot Net and the Pro Wrestling Boom podcast. Jason,
we rushed one week, so now it's we skipped weeks,
so now we're back on schedule. I know you planned
the next two years ahead and when it got off,
it just screwed everything up. So after a three week
break in between, after a normally going three weeks, went

(14:12):
four weeks here, and it's good to be talking to again.

Speaker 3 (14:15):
It is good to be back. Yeah, it was. So
we almost went a month, but the week the time
before that, we went two weeks. So yes, we're we're
back on schedule now.

Speaker 1 (14:23):
Yes. And when I when I said, hey, can you
do it this week? I had my calendar on and
I was counting on you. He's like, yeah, but we're
gonna have to skip a week because I and then
you started listening like because I've got this plan and
that plan and that holiday, and I was like I'm exaggerating.

Speaker 3 (14:36):
Yeah, yeah, it was just Christmas week and I'm like, oh man,
I looked ahead and I've got that, like, yeah, I
got I gotta try to keep Christmas open.

Speaker 1 (14:43):
I oh, I totally totally get it. I'm just give
me a hard time.

Speaker 3 (14:47):
Although at the rate AW is going, like Tony, you'll
probably like book a show on Christmas Eve. I mean seriously,
Thanksgiving night and what was it New Year's Eve? Like
thanks Tony? That's great? All right? Is not going to
be covered live at dot net?

Speaker 1 (15:02):
Yeah, I know it's you know, you kind of want
a wrestling promoter who really enjoys holidays with the family. Yes,
that's the ideal wrestling promoter.

Speaker 3 (15:14):
For or just think you can't make money that night,
like Vince McMahon convinced himself for years and thank god
nobody told him otherwise. We got a break for a
long time there on holiday weekends.

Speaker 1 (15:24):
Yes, all right, So let's talk about Cody. How's he
doing right now? How do you where is he on
han his uh you know, scattered chart of cheers booze
popularity on popularity momentum stalled all that.

Speaker 3 (15:42):
I was worried about him after that wrestled pollution match
with Drew and now, looking back, I wonder if it
was just it was kind of a cold program and
which he's you know, it looks you look at this
uh happening agains like, I ain't sure you want to
go there. But again the lack of depth, they almost
have to So I think Cody is doing fine all
things considered. That was the one time that I looked

(16:05):
at I just saw the crowd like as flat as
it'd ever been coming out of Cody win on a
pl E or a major title defense, and but it
was one crowd. Ever since then, the reactions have been fine,
but I think, you know, they need the company needs
to start lining people up for him and put him
in some compelling programs. I don't know, just looking at

(16:25):
an xta weight, maybe it's time to call it Bethan Page.
He seems to have good matches with everyone and gets
heat with anywhere, you know, if anyone he works with.
That's just one guy that comes to mind.

Speaker 1 (16:36):
Yeah, I mean when they're when we're looking over the
roster and we're trying to figure out who there is
for Cody, I start going, Okay, we need a superstar shakeup,
we need a draft, we need to move some people around,
but you know, they want to time out. They want
to they don't want to rush into the really big matches,
and I like that. I want to keep certain top

(16:57):
wrestlers apart from each other for an extended period so
that I almost feel it's like an interpromotional match when
they face off, and I like that. But they could
have put Rusev as a potential opponent for Cody and
built him up. But they clearly see him as an
intercontinental level US Tunle level guy.

Speaker 3 (17:11):
Right now, and he doesn't have to be. That's the thing.
I don't understand that either. Just I don't remember what
the landscape was like when Russev rejoined the company to
know if like wow, it made sense at the time
that they're gonna if things work well, they were gonna
feed him with this guy or what have you. But now, yeah,
I don't see a reason why you wouldn't. You're not

(17:32):
doing anything. I mean, he's in a triple threat, but
for the secondary championship over him the rossiye. But he
does strike me as somebody that, yeah, you can build
him up and get a couple of months out of him,
and Cody for sure.

Speaker 1 (17:43):
Yeah, yeah, I mean you don't want to pull people
from NXT before they're ready because you quote haven't done
your job or there's an injury, Like I believe you
should do patchwork to get through a couple of months
if you're if you're in a bad spot, more than
you should rush somebody from NXT early before they're ripe
when they won't. Look at that said, you know you

(18:07):
mentioned Ethan Ethan page. I mean he is. He is
a turnkey plug and play You know that forty eighth
year old heel veteran who just can go out there,
cut a promo and sell a match and he'd be fresh.
Is he though, defined down a little too much to
be put into a world title program based on how
long he was underutilized and floundered in AW and how

(18:29):
he's used in NXT. Is not a transformative centerpiece act,
but someone who can kind of visit that area, but
isn't like so successful and so strong in that spot
that they're clearly just grooming him for a huge push
on the main roster. Like you look at him as
like he's a guy you can expend by calling up
because he's ready, but don't He's not going to be

(18:50):
a top four heel for you, he's going to be
number five.

Speaker 3 (18:52):
Probably there's nothing other than whatever preconceived notion is they
have stopping him from being a meaningful player on either
roster because he's he's killed it in NXT, and I
think that you can bring him. Maybe you can't just
bring him in and plug him right into a world
title match. I mean you can, but I think you're
better off building him up a little bit. And I

(19:12):
mean you can point out this guy's one every title
there was to win an NXT, as far as like
a screw Speed Championships, but that's another story. But yeah,
every meaningful major championship in NXT, and you can even
he probably did it in record time or close to it.
You know, there's a lot that even though if because yes,
a lot of people do see NXT, but there's also
an audience that doesn't. And I think you can really

(19:34):
build him up in their eyes, and then with the
audience that does see NXT, I think they'll take to it.
I think they'll accept it because he's been as good
as he had. Maybe they haven't pushed him consistently as
a main event player, but everything they give him he
makes work.

Speaker 1 (19:50):
Yeah, yep. I'm I'm glad you brought him up because
he's not always at the forefront of conversations like this.
But I agree. I mean, he's I'm probably slightly less
high in him than you. But I'm not just agreeing
with anything you said. I I just I'm yeah, but
I'm also being swayed a little bit because I sort
of have my preconception, like you said, if they push

(20:10):
him the right way and feature him the right way,
he will deliver. He has a confidence in his stride,
you know, so to speak literally and symbolically that you
can buy him as as a top level challenger. Who
is he most comparable to. Is it more mis or
more Kevin Owens or more someone else on the main
roster in recent years?

Speaker 3 (20:31):
Oh? Man, I hmmm, say Bobby Root in a way,
but he certainly is more dynamic, more charismatic.

Speaker 1 (20:42):
And body type similar.

Speaker 3 (20:44):
Yeah, yes, yeah, And I mean he's having really good
matches too. Not you know, he wouldn't go to AW
and steal the show with their style, but as far
as what they want in WWE, he's doing a great
job and.

Speaker 1 (20:58):
He's what AW should have more of.

Speaker 3 (20:59):
By the way, Yes, for sure, his I.

Speaker 1 (21:03):
Know, I'm sorry. I remember he should not have been
a guy that AW looked at and said, you're not
dynamic enough, so you know, we won't push you. He
is that baseline, efficient, believable guy kind of I you
know what, he's more like Cody than he has misser
Kevin Owens. Sure, you know, like he's a I mean,
I'm not saying he's that Cody's lot, but like sty wise,

(21:25):
he's just he's efficient, he's solid, he's reliable, but there's
enough that's dynamic that doesn't make him kind of what
held Robert rudback, Bobby redback. But AW should have pushed
him more and not said, well, he's not flashy enough
for our our fan base. And you know, like he
you want that? Do you want that mix? And I

(21:46):
I do think to this day he was, you know,
really under your lives ton AW and NXT. He's done
a much better job.

Speaker 3 (21:51):
With him, definitely, And for some reason they thought they
needed Dan Lambert to talk for him, and Lambert was
fine and you know, got heat whatever, but Ethan Page
is a great talker. Never really understood that one. It's like,
did you guys not watch him in TNA? Did a
heck of a job there too. Yep. And yeah, I
mean I didn't mind the tag team that they put
It was him and Scorpios, guy like okay, that had
some potential, but they didn't do anything with them.

Speaker 1 (22:13):
And the thing with aw is too often they do
something like sixty seventy percent for a little while and
then they kind of lose interest and like you just
have and I would say, like pick your stars, decide
who you're in the who who are you in the
business of? Are you in the Kenyomega business? Then make
it clear to everybody watching. Don't just have people kind
of hover and you know, just kind of do stuff.

(22:36):
Like with Ethan, they needed to decide this is eight
months of Ethan page. We're in the Ethan Page business,
and we're gonna make it clear if you watched three
or four of our shows, we're in Ethan page business.
And that never happened. And so he just sort of
becomes a guy who when he does move into a
match that you're supposed to care about, it's like, yeah,
but you haven't cared about him for the last year

(22:56):
and a half. You know. It goes weeks and months
at a time, not really being featured on TV. You
just to find someone down by that point in the
eyes of fans. So there's too much of that in
AAW and they're better now in terms of we know
who the top guys are, but there's occasionally a miss
and where you're like, that would have been a good
diverse addition to the top mix. And it doesn't mean
you have to commit to four years that being a

(23:17):
top start. You want to commit to Will Osprey as
a top guy. Darby Moxley, I get that hang man obviously,
but you can go with somebody for six eight months
and actually overpush them with the idea being there's an
endpoint in mind, but at least for six to eight months,
give or take. I'm not married to that exact number.
Fans go, this is a time where I tune in

(23:37):
to see this guy's journey, in this guy's story, and
then you can bring them down. They did that with
Damian Priest and daoba By, you know, like in the
Damien Prieste business. But we're not building around him. But
for six months, eighteen months, somewhere in that range, you're
gonna know it's more about him than it's ever been
and we'll see how it goes. And I want Tony
Con to do that more because that freshens things up
and it gives you that person who you can if
you build them up that hard, when you put them

(23:59):
against another top guy, you can actually go be competitive
and and have fans not know who's gonna win. But
if you don't make it clear you're in the ethan
page business, you fans won't buy him as a potential winner.
Or though I think it's it's it's lame if he
does win. So that's that's a weakness of aw's booking,
and they have some missed opportunities to bring to bring

(24:21):
people up temporarily to freshen up their top matchups.

Speaker 3 (24:24):
Yes, and as far as Cody and other potential challengers,
I mean, you can always play the brock Lessner card
Omas are just sitting out there. I don't know what
she can get out of it. Been maybe you can
try to do something there and then I would I
wouldn't rush him right into it. I just think he's
a guy that you can build for the long term
rather than rush him into a title mash. But Oba Fami,

(24:44):
I think he's probably man roster bound. We haven't seen
him on an XT TV since he dropped the title.
I don't know what's going on with Tony DiAngelo. He's
been m i a on n XT television lately. Even
though he was featured in the video for Halloween Havoc,
which was kind of str engine, they just never did
anything with him. So, you know, I think he's a
guy that needs kind of a character reboot. I just

(25:08):
I don't think you can. I wouldn't want to see
the mob family thing repeated on the main roster. I
didn't even care for it all that much in NXT.
But I do think that he's a guy with a
lot of charisma and a lot of talent, and if
you can find the right gimmick for him or just
the right character shift for him, he's somebody that, yeah,
maybe you're not going to make him world champion, but

(25:29):
you can certainly make him a credible challenger for a
couple of months. I mean, we grew up watching hul
Cogan and think of all the people at WWF at
the time, the VWWF would bring in at the time
to be his challenger for three months, and it goes back.
I mean, I'm sure they did the same thing with
Bruno and just you know, getting what you can out
of people. When you have a long running champion like that,

(25:51):
you're going to run out of people eventually. But the
key is trying to make everybody count as much as
you can, and they were very good at that and
I don't see any reason why you can't do that today.

Speaker 1 (26:03):
Yes, okay, do you I'll just go back to Cody
because I want to fish that's may event here any
chance through wins.

Speaker 3 (26:12):
I don't think so, though. I mean, is there a
chance store We're getting closer now to WrestleMania, and I would,
you know, if you're going to do a title change,
I have a feeling it's going to be a quick one.
I don't see Drew holding the WWA Championship going into
WrestleMania right unless you know, I mean, unless I feel

(26:36):
like there's money in Cody trying to get that title
back from him. And I'm skeptical just because of the
damage they've done to McIntyre, but I would. I wouldn't
completely reject it. I'd be open minded and you're like, well,
let's give us a chance. Maybe they can. You know,
he drew up again. He's a hell of a talent,
So yeah, I don't think he wins though. I mean,

(26:57):
if I had to put money on it, I would
not predict it. Drew Entire win on Saturday.

Speaker 5 (27:03):
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Speaker 1 (28:09):
No, No, I wouldn't put money on it. I'm just
as we talk about Cody's options, you know, like with
the frequency of pls, which is an adjustment for them.
They have these big money deals. They've got to deliver
big matches on ron SmackDown to their partners on occasion,
you know, semi regularly. Plus you got Center it's main event,
and then you have all these pls and then you
also have NXT where now that that's a revenue source
and Peacock's paying for it, the CW is paying for it.

(28:30):
You also don't want to call people up too fast
where you're depleted because so they're serving so many masters.
And when it's sort of like when you're really motivated
to eat right or exercise, it's like, yeah, you're motivated,
But what happens when stress comes in or you're not
feeling good, or there's you know, friends who are doing
things and now you're busier with them, like suddenly you're

(28:52):
not as motivated and focused, and then that drops off.
And I feel like with dood be when everything is clicking.
They take on too much. We're gonna, we're gonna, we're
gonna have all these events. We're gonna have all these
main events. But when they come more frequently, you don't
have that peak circumstance that you have right after the holidays,
when you've ate all this young food and you're so busy, Like,
all I want to do is just all these resolutions.

(29:14):
It's like that's why there's these resolutions. It's post holiday
or just away from all the travel and stress. I
want to get myself back in shape. That would be
like they're like, oh, we got this deep roster and
all these people wanting to give us money for more content,
let's do it. And then suddenly you start going, oh, crap,
we spent that match. That feud was was paid too
quickly that one. Now we're having to go to one
or two extra matches for rematches beyond the freshness date.

(29:38):
We're telling the same story in some slightly different way
to fill time. Like there is a lot and it
goes all the way back to WW going to three
hour nightro and two hours of thunder. It killed them,
you know, I mean, it's don't be wrong today if
they didn't do that. I just I there's more there's
more room to adjust and make things look really strong
during downtimes and they're in a position now or I mean,

(29:59):
I there's a lot of talent there, but I think
some of the fresh matchups people will they just do
that that's fresh. Well, they're saving that for us of
media next year or the year after, right, right, you
know they're not going to rush in October. No, thank
you for listening to us in October.

Speaker 3 (30:11):
Would be a fine challenger for Cody. But do you
want to rush trick in just to lose No exactly.

Speaker 1 (30:17):
Yeah, as like I'm saying, thank you for listening our
podcast in October, But this is not peak pro wrestling season?
You know this is right? I mean, and you want
to have peaks. There's nothing wrong with by definition, if
you have peaks, you're gonna have some aspect some seasons
that feel less like prime and historically significant. But when
you're when you're spread thin and they are with so
many pol's, then you end up with a situation like this.

(30:40):
But because Cody hasn't a lot of challenges, I'm like, well,
maybe they'll try to get now, just do hot potato.
I don't think they will. Sometimes I just not in
a way that's dishonest or insincere. But I like to
put out there a scenario that feels if it exists,
that gives a little bit of doubt going into a
big match, as long as it's put in proper context.

(31:02):
Sometimes it's just a given, But I always look for
that option, that situation where like when we watch can
we kind of pop from your Falls?

Speaker 3 (31:09):
By Drew? And sure?

Speaker 1 (31:10):
Yeah, I mean, you know, I'm very very close to
saying no. You know what I mean, Like, I'm very
close saying no, They're sticking with Cody, but it's Drue
and he's been there before, and there's not a lot
of there's not an obvious opponent waiting. So could they
do a hot potato title change and have that be
part of Cody's story? Sure, because sometimes losses are a
driver to give that wrestler who loses more of a push.

Speaker 3 (31:33):
Or could they do something too, like I'll play into
this that they have wargames coming up? Yeah, could there
be some sort of outside interference that leads to Cody
losing the title but also gives him a reason to
enter wargames? To get hi measure of revenge.

Speaker 1 (31:49):
Mm hmm, yeah, totally yep. And that's the thing you
have to look at the calendar to kind of see. Okay,
what makes sense? What is going on with Cody? By
the way, I don't want to make too much of it,
but I also don't want to naively not pay attention
to it. He's lashing out a little bit more and
acknowledging it afterwards. Oh, that was uncharacteristic of me, you know,
like so, so.

Speaker 3 (32:11):
In other words, I hope you were paying attention, but
just in case you weren't.

Speaker 1 (32:15):
Yeah, and so where is that? Just Drew brings out
the worst in me? And I apologize. It's just a
way to kind of say it's going to be intense
on Saturday. Or is this part of an arc that
they're either considering and laying the groundwork for potentially or
locked into that Cody does he is starting to the
dark side, is starting to come out a little bit.
There's a side of him that isn't the same as

(32:37):
what we've seen that maybe where he's losing some control
for some reason, and then he will be more susceptible
to the final Boss or something like that. What's your
take on the breadcrumbs are dropping for us here?

Speaker 3 (32:48):
Yeah, I'm intrigued. I do think there's a chance to
go heal with him, in part because of what we're
talking about. There's just not that many strong challengers and
it would really make things pretty interesting. It's such a
tough thing, though, to give up a baby face that
is going as well as he is. You want to
stay ahead of it. You know, there's good there's an
end to all these saying. You know, there was a
time when it looked like al Comania would run wild

(33:10):
forever and it didn't. Can give run out of scheme eventually,
And I don't think we're there with Cody yet, but
if they want to stay ahead of it, I think
potentially they could. Drew is a character that's always told
the truth in his own from his own perspective. If
you will, there's yeah, he's you could, in theory do

(33:31):
some sort of a double turn. I don't again, I
don't think they are, but just the idea of Cody
as a heel is certainly intriguing. But then the big
question is, well, then who's your top baby face? And
I don't know that they have one.

Speaker 1 (33:44):
Yep, Yeah, there you go. That's the other thing was
when you go, oh, this person could use a turn? Okay,
what are you left with if you do that? Do
you have enough depth otherwise? But tangentially related, But how
when we speak of that, where where's l A.

Speaker 3 (34:02):
Knight?

Speaker 1 (34:02):
You know, talking about Ethan Page being a call him up?
He's utility guy who, if you frame him the right way,
can pass and succeed as against top tier guys who
are well established. Ellie Knight has had a better year
than I expected. They sacrificed him, so to speak to
brun Breaker last night, I'm been impressed by him. It's

(34:23):
still an adventure watching him do moves. I don't know
if he almost killed brown Breaker last night or not.
I haven't reviewed that footage with the wrestler who can
tell me what they saw. But how you're feeling about
Ellen Knight these days in terms of where you were
a year ago with him and how you think that
would be perceived him today?

Speaker 3 (34:39):
Yeah, I think he's in a really good place. He's
had more staying power than I think even they anticipated,
especially with all the not so subtle This is how
we really think about you, and we're going to have
people say it for us that you're you're a flash
in the pan. They did that with him early on,
and I think even they have to be pleasantly surprised.
And I think he has a his game. You know,

(35:00):
he's never going to be the most polished guy in
the RAND. There's going to be some hiccups there. But
I do think he's improved. I think he looks more comfortable.
He looks very confident, even you know, he always does
to it to some degree, but I think he's really
found his groove in WWE for the first time, and
he's been doing some really good work. And I'm actually
surprised that it's not him in Punk instead of Jay

(35:23):
and Punk because they're the ones who had the actual
story going into this, and so yeah, I mean it
kind of makes me wonder, like, what's the reason there.
It probably has nothing to do with La Knight, and
it's just they have some story in mind involving Jay
and Punk. Obviously.

Speaker 1 (35:38):
I keep thinking with him, are they in the verge
of going a little further with him or not? And
I think against it would be if they need it.
I think they're willing to because I was like, people like, oh,
Ellie and I you get a shot with the world title,
and I'm like, no, you don't just get the you know,
golden watch, you know, just because you're you have a hot,
crowdsy spotting to you. But I did kind of waiver

(35:59):
on that in the last couple weeks, Like I'm I
would be okay with him having a title reign. That's
a bit of a bridge. I don't think you want
to go co headline WrestleMania with him. I'm not there
with him, but I don't feel like it would just
be like a gold watch. We gots good pops, and
so let's just do it, because I think world title
reign should be. It's better when there's one belt and
it's you know, you know how it was in the eighties, Jason.
It's like you could trace every world champion for ever

(36:21):
and they're all just clear top top guys with an
occasional Ron Garvin mistake, yes, or a dying company where
it's you know, I'm sure jam and Mitch Snow is
hoping a to beach perhap long enough for him to
come world champion on his resume. But with that only night,
I mean, I like, given the lay the way w
W proNTs. Now, you know, I could see him in
that spot. It can be a credibility booster, but it

(36:42):
can also be the dog catches a bumper. You know,
he got there, and then the company moves away from
him after three weeks, six weeks, twelve weeks, fourteen weeks,
and then the fans go, oh, okay, he got that
run and now he's just you know, upper mid card again,
and it's some of the magic has gone. If if
the chase is over, so you could actually do harm
to somebody if you give them that run too. If
people if his fan base still thinks he hasn't hit

(37:04):
a ceiling yet and instead he's a little underappreciated and
undther pushed, that can actually work in your favors. So
with L. A. Knight, you know, I don't know if
I want a short transitional rain where I just lose
clean to the next guy.

Speaker 3 (37:15):
Yeah, I mean, I think he'll be okay if they
do go in that direct, but I don't know if
they will. I mean, I think he's going to be
a guy that gets fed to whoever wins on Saturday,
not and just not in like squash fashion or something
like that. But I do think like he is going
to be one of the first challengers, if not the first,

(37:36):
and will not win the championship. But I do think
that he's a guy they can get you a couple
months out of as the challenger for the World Heavyweight Championship,
and yeah, I don't I was open to the possibility that, Okay,
they don't want Punk's first title reign to just be like, oh,
he beats somebody and you know it wasn't the champion,

(37:58):
and so maybe they'll go with Night, and especially if
they want bron Breaker to be the you know it's
they're looking for a transitional champion. Then that's when I
really thought, like, oh La Knight, get wins the championship,
hold it for a little bit, and break or beats him.
I totally was open to that possibility, and you know,
they didn't go in that direction, but it doesn't mean
they can't circle back tonight at some point.

Speaker 1 (38:19):
Yep, yep. All right, So weaving back to Saturday, It's
main event, we got the the j usso Cempunk match.
I would think a lot of fans would see this
as the most compelling match on the lineup, even more
so than Cody Drew. I'm I'm really interesting this Jaus.
The story they're telling Jason. I like the I like

(38:40):
how they're they are playing into his strengths as a character,
and what he's doing ultimately is different than they do
with most wrestlers because he doesn't do a ton of talking,
but he does a lot of body language. You know,
you can read his body language and his facial expressions,
and there's this whole backstory that they lean into on
him feeling about this match and the build.

Speaker 3 (39:03):
I'm intrigued for sure. There's a big part of me
wondering right now, like it's just a misdirect to like
throw people off the scent that they actually want to
turn punk and they've just been so heavy on Jay
and then you have punk with that. You know that
we wondered, like did he just going to did he
say the wrong thing on commentary? Wasn't going in a
business for himself, which is the wrong thing when he

(39:25):
defended Jay for eliminating Jimmy and then he backed it
up again this week and reinforced it there. You can
go either way with that one. You know it certainly
when you hear it, it's not like, oh, he's a heel,
but could it be used to justify something he does
to j And so I don't I mean, probably a

(39:46):
long shot that he would turn now, but you know,
I'm curious, and I think there's some intriguing storyline possibilities
here with with Punk and Jay.

Speaker 1 (39:57):
And looking ahead on that, I don't think they would.
They're not going to turn a very popular punk heel,
right if they don't have someone to take a spot
that they believe him. In that depth chart of baby faces,
see them, Punk is a guy who's getting chance during
Cody segments, during La Night segments, like it's a it's
irritating for other baby faces because his chants are everywhere.

(40:20):
They just show up, and I mean it's it's.

Speaker 3 (40:22):
Really irritating for the fancy champ Punk.

Speaker 1 (40:25):
I'm sure, Well, yes, for sure, But imagine me in
a baby face cutting your promo and then you're like,
all of a sudden, you had to wait out to
see them Punk chat, right, So it reminds me of
that that meme of the of the the guy looking
back at the girl who you know, the guy and
his girlfriend and he turns his head to look and
she gives him a dirty look like the guy. I'm like,
you know, Cody's like, hey, fans, come on, we're here together.
Let's not be looking back at at Punk longingly. But

(40:49):
if they turn him heel, I mean, does he necessarily
go with Hayman? Do you like that or is there
a redundancy there just because Punk and Hayman are so
good on the mic? Or do you want to see
them have you know, see if they can either recreate
magic or even be better as a pair, And does
that only come if bron breaker at the same time

(41:09):
or shortly they have to turns baby face and breaks away.
So this gets kind of deeper into stuff we saw
last night where Haymond saying, I'm listen to me, I'm
the Oracle. I don't they're still Are they still going
with oracle? Post yeah?

Speaker 3 (41:22):
Ago that he was referred to himself as the Endurable
Oracle when he was talking about that heat Lynch.

Speaker 1 (41:28):
Okay, so that's post Seth injury. They brought that up
because I'm just kind of like, what are they going
to reset? Do they want memories of that kind of
awkward faction and if they have to hit the reset
on some things, do they want to pull from that
or not, so neverless, you got the interesting Hayman Breaker,
I'm I'm a mentor. Listen to me, Breaker, I'm a
hot head. I know, Andy, listen to you, but god,
I just want to go on and beat everybody up.
And he was like, yeah, but here's the things that

(41:48):
can happen. You create an enemy and out of peers
and you do this. I mean, I love that segment
because it it just it's it's like, okay, yeah, you
get why Breaker needs advice. So I'm in Tree because
I think the goal is Breaker to eventually be a babyface,
and I think they have a pretty good plan of
how they want to get there, and I think it
includes a win over Brock Lesner at some point. And

(42:10):
I think that's why Listener destroyed Sena, so that breakers
whenever Lesner would feel like Lesner got rejuvenated, and they'd
create fear of Breaker being destroyed too. But if you
turn punk Keel, I'll just kind of circle back with
all that kind of as part of my contact setting.
Do you think it would necessarily be with him joining
Hayman or do you think they would keep him apart
because Hayman's better off talking for people who can't talk

(42:30):
as well as him or in that realm.

Speaker 3 (42:33):
It's I mean, that's the hard part of this is
that you would think like, okay, you've got Breaker and
Read as top heels kind of waiting for this whole
thing to play out. They just turned on Cody. You
can make an argument for Earth, you can tell the
story of Hayman deciding it's safer to go with Punk
rather than this hot head Breaker. But it's an awful

(42:56):
lot of turns. I see, you have Breaker turn on Seth.
Then you'd have Hayman basically and probably Bronson Reid and
turning on Broun Breaker as CM. Punk also turns heel breakers.
It's just it's a lot. And so that's where you know,
I threw out the idea that well, it could be
a mister reck and it's a Punk heel turn. But

(43:17):
it is an awful lot. It's more than they typically
ask of their fans to follow along with. So I yeah,
you could keep them apart and Punk could be his
own heel. But then you know what he I mean,
you could have him and aj Lee. I don't know
where she's been lately, but if they could start to

(43:38):
they could basically be their own act. But then how
do you explain Breaker and Read not coming after VM
punk when Breaker clearly wants the World Heavyweight Championship and
Haymond's been talking him up. Now, I say all that
I thought it was interesting at the I may have
just been misreading. I could to go back and watch
it again today. There was so after Hayman gave that speech,

(44:01):
Breaker kind of looked and he left the room. Breaker
looked in his direction, and it looked to me like
he made kind of a mean fish. And I thought
Reid did too. Watching it back, he did not. Reid didn't,
but Breaker it seemed like he did. But I mean,
for all I know is just he looked in that
direction and I'm misreading it. But yeah, I mean, is
it possible that this alliance is not going to last long?

(44:26):
I guess you never say never.

Speaker 1 (44:34):
You don't have to wait for the way Keller Pro
Wrestling post show to find out what I thought of
Monday Night Raw and SmackDown. Each week, you can check
out my reports that are updated live throughout Raw and
SmackDown at pw torch dot com. My written report will
tell you what's happening in detail. In case you missed
the show, and it'll also analyze key segments and give
my random thoughts quips on what I'm watching as it airs.

(44:57):
So check it out every Monday night and Tuesday night
at peak w torch dot com. That also applies to
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com with a detailed written report with star ratings, and
of course you can find other TV reports from other
contributors to pw torch such as nxt roh Impact Wrestling
and more. Check it out pw torch dot com your

(45:18):
first stop for TV and pay per views written reports.
It's a shame we don't know where the Seth led
vision was going to go in terms of the timeline.
Are we getting a condensed rush version of it or

(45:41):
would it have played out differently, especially the Breaker Hayman situation,
like do they feel another compromise having to rush on things?
And it's a shame that said, I don't mourn the
loss of the vision. I just didn't think there was
chemistry is Seth and Hayman. I think it might have
actually been by design so they could get to this
chapter two, but maybe they just didn't have a lot
of chemistry. Maybe Set's like I just wanted all the time,
you know, in so many words, and he's like, all right,

(46:02):
but I think we're in a better place. But I
don't know what this all means. I watch this going.
What we're seeing is not necessarily the master plan for
where we'd be in late October, because I think some
things might have been rushed. So now we kind of
have to look at it through the lens of not
a master plan, but perhaps an augmented, rushed plan or

(46:22):
something like that. But I am all that said as
a caveat. I'm you know, I'd say I'm intrigued with
Jaos someone what they're doing with him. I'm really intrigued
with the Hayman Breaker relationship, and I, like you, I'm
looking for those those hints, the body language, the dynamic
between Breaker and Read and Read and Hayman and Hayman
and Breaker. That's the stuff that I crave in the
don Kallis family, you know, in AW like, I want

(46:43):
to know the inter interpersonal dynamics. I wish we got
more of it in the creatively Abandoned Why It's six,
But they just are going to be spooky with no blayering.
And I guess we just have to accept that, you know,
and it is. It is a sort of a a
crew of just sort of misfits. They don't really believe in,
so I guess they just want to put that kind
of TV time into them. Clearly believe in Breaker, clearly
believe in read.

Speaker 3 (47:04):
So yeah, let me let me just for one thing
on here. I think you're right. But now that we
know Mike Rotundas and hospice care, you know, that might
explain why they've pulled back on Uncle Howdy especially.

Speaker 1 (47:16):
Good point yep, by the way, I wanted to talk
about that, and for people haven't heard, Yeah, former US
Express American Express tag partner with Barry Wyndham, really good
tag team, just a cup of coffee in the WF
but as excited for them as a team, and they
don't get talked about enough. Even if they didn't last
a long time in certain national stages, they're really good

(47:38):
tag team. And then of course micro Tundle, like a
lot of characters in that era who were pretty good
workers but not off the charts charisma, got given a timeless, distinct,
memorable cartoonish character in I R S. Well, you know what, Well,
we're just all over the place anyway, Sure talk about

(47:58):
talk about micro tun a little bit since you up,
because I don't want to forget if we and then
we'll get back to punk and j.

Speaker 3 (48:03):
You know what I think of Mike Ratunda, I think
of Captain Might Now I try to forget the Captain
Mike face of w c W, but he did have
the run as Michael wall Street. But yeah, certainly I
go back to the US Express and you know, the
first team that the first wrestlers had actually came out
to the real American theme song. It was for them,
and obviously when Wyndham left and then they ended up

(48:25):
moving it to Hogan. But Ratunda and Wyndham had real
chemistry and they were great and they were a big
part I think of the early WrestleMania run and they're
feud with Nikolai Volkoff and Iron Cheek isn't going to
win any Best match awards just because of where shek
and Volkoff were in their careers, but they were still exciting.
The fans really took to Windham and Rotunda, and it

(48:48):
wasn't the same when you know, Wyndham left and they
brought in Danny Spotty to play that role. It just
didn't work. And then Rotunda goes to w c W
at some point because Michael wall Street. It had potential.
It didn't really go anywhere. But yeah, I mean the
gimmick isn't for me, but the irs certainly had staying power.
I mean all those times they would do the the

(49:10):
homecoming shows or you know, just any kind of flashback show,
he was always a part of it and he always
got great reactions. And long time producer or agent, whatever
you want to say, or the company. And yeah, I
mean I was surprised. I had no idea he was
in poor health. And I don't think we know unless
something changed since we started here exactly what caused this.

(49:31):
But yeah, very sad.

Speaker 1 (49:34):
Yeah, and obviously with Rotunda there's Varsity Club two where
you know, we had I think he he fit in
well as a supporting player. He was you know, peop
always go to Martin Jenetty have a team. I think
if win him In or Tunna were around long enough,
like had a longer run or a prominent run, even
though they had definitely some some high high points, I

(49:55):
think people would go, well, he's there, that's the micro
ton to the take team.

Speaker 3 (49:59):
Sure, yeah, I could see that. Yeah, I mean, Barry
just had Rotunda was really good at what he did.
But I mean it was Barry that just had the
charisma and the charm. Yeah, I think again, we saw
that when Barry left and Danny Spotty tried to fill
that slot, it just wasn't the same. But yeah, I
did enjoy the Varsity Club. I did not enjoy the

(50:22):
captain like Rotunda. For those who don't know, he basically
wore a like a skipper's hat. Yeah I don't get it,
but yeah, he was like I'm looking right now, I
just did a search board and there's like then Mike
Rotunda and he's got some green jacket on with that
bad hat. You would remember what they were going for.

Speaker 1 (50:46):
Yes, yes, I mean and Fortonna's only sixty seven, so yeah,
I don't know if there's been any details out there
at all, but you know what he's going through that
puts him in hospice care. I think to the Jetty thing,
Barry Wynham would have needed to have Shawn Michael's like
career as a single star then too. Sure, Yeah, I know,
I know he's one of my I mean front row.

(51:07):
Rick Clair, Berry Windham still one of my favorite live
fan experiences. I mean not not number one, but prime,
you know, prime Ric Flair, Prime Bary Windom. There was
just something about those two chemistry wise in the ring.
When people talk about the great Rickclair opponents, I don't
think Barry gets mentioned enough. You know, he didn't really have.
It was, you know, more of the house show era
before pay per views were frequent enough to just have

(51:28):
one of those epic feuds that is locked in a
high production you know DVD collection.

Speaker 3 (51:37):
Yeah, the big draw on television. Yeah, they did that.
I think was it forty five minutes I believe, And yeah,
I mean definitely. And then obviously a member of the
Horseman Berry was but getting back and White, you know,
the father of Bray Wyatt and the father of Bo
Dallas and married Barry's sister. I believe it is so yeah,

(51:59):
I mean it's uh quite the family. And of course
you know Berries, the sun Well brother Kendall wrestled and
then but he's the Sahn and Blackshack Mulligan and say,
just an amazing wrestling family.

Speaker 1 (52:11):
Yeah, and it does explain We're like, why isn't Bo
Dallas around and it's like, well, you know he's been Yeah,
his dad and they've been through so much with Bray too. Tough,
tough period for that family. Okay, so Seampunk and JAYU,
So take me through like the two if you can,
like the two scenarios that you think are the top

(52:32):
ones to look out for in this match. I don't know,
if you know you said, oh, maybe Sampunk's justifying some
actions means a he'll turned. I don't think we're on
the cusp of that. I'm not ruling it out, but
it feels like they'll tell a longer story arc with that,
but not necessarily. I mean Jays so obviously it's the
one who they're teasing has its dark side, but he's
also you know, people know his his heart's in the
right place. He's just trying to be maybe something he

(52:54):
can't be, or Roman's trying to bring something out in
him that's that he's suppressed, that he is holding him back.
So there's sympathy for Jay and Punk turning on him.
I think fans would not go, oh, Jay had a coming.
I think they'd go, Punk, what are you doing?

Speaker 3 (53:08):
They would Yeah, I guess here's my fear is that
it is a mysterirect, but it's because Jimmy's going to
turn on Jay on. I think they're in a good
place now. I like what Jimmy's been doing, but Jimmy
on his own has really struggled. He's the one guy
in the Bloodline that just didn't completely click. He played

(53:31):
a part, but he was he always kind of felt
like the low man in that group, just as far
as what they were doing creatively. I guess, you know,
he had moments, but yeah, it was Jay that really
took off, and then obviously Roman and Sammy and Hayman
had his part, and then there was Jimmy and the
match with Jimmy and j at Wrestle Manny was a
big disappointment. I know they've expressed interest in wanting to

(53:54):
try to make up for that, and I guess you
could start on the path to that by having Jimmy
his brother the championship, but it just doesn't do much
for me. I don't know what's really changed with uh
with Jimmy is for you know, there's just he's a
likable personality, but there's just something missing there.

Speaker 1 (54:14):
With Yeah, yeah, I get that, I get that, So
so tell me you're you're kind of two key scenarios
that that you've put that you are putting money on.

Speaker 3 (54:25):
Well, I would say that it's, you know, a possibility
that Jimmy Boss j and then the other one. I
I don't think Jay just beats Punk clean. So I
do think that Punk. You know, it's either Jay wins
with some sort of help whether he wants it or not,
or Punk beats him clean, or I guess, I mean
you have the Jimmy scenario, or I guess Roman could

(54:46):
cost j two. But if there's a clean finish, I
think it's Punk going over. I do too.

Speaker 1 (54:53):
And then that is that a crisis of confidence for Jay?
Is that? And I told you so from me?

Speaker 3 (54:57):
Isn't everything? Yes?

Speaker 1 (55:00):
Is it a we got to get we got to
just do our our thing as a tag team from
now on? And Jay resigns himself to that. I don't
think they're just gonna do that because they're two, and
they're two in the middle of a story.

Speaker 3 (55:11):
I really don't give a damn about tag team wrestling.

Speaker 1 (55:14):
Unfortunately, No, no, So, I I mean, I'm I'll be
kind of edge of my seat Saturday. You know, I
think it's it is not a match that happened, you know,
by master plan, you know, Battle Royal, and it feels,
you know, like, okay, we're having to adjust. But sometimes
when you have to adjust, it gets you out of
something that might have been a little predictable. And predictable

(55:36):
isn't always bad, but now the bonus of something that
is now by definition unpredictable is you can watch and
not really know where things are going. And I think
that is intriguing going into uh Saturday Night.

Speaker 3 (55:49):
Agreed, Yeah, they I mean it was. They were especially
bad at this under events. They like to over force events,
which terrible like okay, beat us over the head with advance,
we we know what you're about to do, thank you,
But they still do some of that, and so yeah,
this kind of does just pull them out of like
the predictability mode, like because they do like to try
to let you look back and go, yeah, this story

(56:11):
makes sense, say, they kind of hinted it was coming here,
but they're not. I mean, they may be doing that
in the process of this Shay stuff. I'm not sure,
but it has just it does kind of it makes
things just feel less predictable and it's exciting and yeah,
it's fun. That's why I just don't have like a
clear cut this guy's winning. I just or here's how
they get there, and that's fine. I wish I had

(56:32):
more of experiences like that with wrestling these days.

Speaker 1 (56:36):
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 3 (56:37):
Now, you.

Speaker 1 (56:39):
Unpredictable can be bad if you have an undisciplined booker
who just books like a fourth grader going Woul'd be
cool if he did this, yeah, of course, But I
don't think that's what we have in WWE. I mean,
there's flaws that we observe that we think are flaws,
but I think unpredictability can. I think a Seth injury

(57:00):
can be seen as more of an opportunity to adjust
and do something fresh and unpredictable. But they're still going
to keep the structure and discipline in the decision making
that goes into it.

Speaker 3 (57:11):
Yeah, yeah, for sure, boy, I mean you mentioned the book.
I'm going to go off a little sideways here, but yeah,
we've had two title changes recently that you know, they
just had him. They did him on tv US title
and the tag title on Raw just out of nowhere.
And I know naturally with the the the Open Challenge,

(57:35):
you're probably going to get that more often than not.
But the raw tag team title, the World Tag team
title is just I mean they Finn Baler and Jada
mcdonnald defended those titles twice since they won them in June,
and they lost on the second defense. I mean, it's
it's absurd. And what did aj and Dragon Lee do
who earn a title? Nothing? They don't take you on

(57:56):
a ride, Elliot, Dragonoff is back. He wins the title
first night. Thanks? What happened to the storytelling here? It's
just moments. Here's your moment.

Speaker 1 (58:06):
I think dragon Off I'm so I philosop I like
from a booking philosophy, a wide array of circumstances when
titles change hands. Yes, like I like long title rains.
I like I didn't see that coming. Short title reign
where it leaves champ and it comes back to the champ,
you know kind of goo th J I see title.

(58:27):
Wasn't that a relatively short switch? Am I remembering? Right?
Which one Jay and gnther?

Speaker 3 (58:34):
Yeah? Fairly yeah? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (58:35):
So like, oh, I didn't think it was gonna lose it, okay,
and now now it gets it back. But it's like
it it takes it moves the story along. If the
w WF did that in the in the sixties and
seventies with Bruno, it would have meant less for to
beat Bruno if they were always doing hot potato title changes.
But on occasion there were circumstances with either you know,

(58:58):
Bruno or Backland where they could have done that and
maybe gotten a little boost, or they did and they
got a little boost. But I like long title rains
in general, but dragonoff coming back if they believe in
him and they're ready to tell a different story with
Sammy kind of liked the out of nowhere. I didn't
to me like a hot shot is businesses down, we're
doing it for the wrong reasons, or we need a

(59:19):
spark and you do something that is ill advised for
the short term sugar rush or making up for something
you did wrong, and he didn't plan ahead. I just
kind of saw that as let's make a star let's
transition this US title up and challenge someone who we
believe can fill TV time and have it beyond even
Sammy because he might not be up for this this schedule.
Having epic title defenses against a wide array of opponents

(59:42):
at this stage of his career, Dreghanof's hungry for that,
So to me, I look at that as this can
make dragonof if he does the US Title Open challenge.
And this goes on for a few months and every
two weeks, every week whatever. He's just having like these
epic TV matches, and then they get Sammy off into
another story that they feel is important for him, and
Sammy gets to be classy and losing kind of a

(01:00:02):
torch passing moment. This is an example of something I did, like.

Speaker 6 (01:00:10):
Are you a nostalgic wrestling fan? Do you want to
hear about shows you haven't seen in ten, twenty, maybe
even thirty years. Well, I have the show for you.
I'm pwtorch dot Com contributor Frank petty Any and since
December of twenty twenty, I've hosted Pro Wrestling Then and Now.
Together with a rotating chair of co hosts. We go
back and review old shows from top to bottom, talk

(01:00:31):
about where the wrestlers were at the time, and compare
what's taking place now to what took place. Then you
can hear this along with other shows as part of
your PW Toortch VIP membership with exclusive podcasts just for
members compatible with the Apple podcast app. Visit pwtorch dot com,
slash go vip for details and sign up form.

Speaker 3 (01:00:56):
I if it weren't, you know, if they didn't have
these two title changes close together, I don't know that
they'd be complaining about the off one. But then I
also look at the way they followed it up, and
he faces Alice You're Black, and he's happy that he
won because Damian Priest interfered.

Speaker 1 (01:01:16):
I get that. Not no, like you can conceptually like something,
but not not like, you know, the immediate follow up.
But yeah, but they did. They clearly set up with
him that there's going to be some tag team wrestlers
who are really good workers who are going to break
away and try to see if they can't stop, you know,

(01:01:36):
if they can answer us title up and challenge. And
I'm kind of looking forward to that, Like if if
we get you know, a dragonoff Champa match and dragging
off Gargano match and dragging off Alex Shelley match, I
mean that kind of stuff. I think if you're trying
to fill out some time on your weekly TV show,
that is a good a chunk of good wrestling, because
Dragon is going to give you that with a story
built in with this gimmick that's over the US title

(01:01:57):
up and challenge. And then again, you you're looking for
excus used just to have fresh matchups that you can
have a structure around her that people care about. As
filler on shows, you don't want the filler to feel
like filler. You want it to feel like this is
not the main event. But I'm interested in it, and
they've got me caring about it, and it's going to
be good. And I think that's what they have with
this Dragon off US title up and challenge. If they

(01:02:19):
go through it. That's the way that I think they've
hinted here, including facing some tag wreslers who normally don't
get single showcases anymore.

Speaker 3 (01:02:25):
I would like to see that. I mean, the Lord
knows they're not doing anything good with those tag games.

Speaker 1 (01:02:29):
Yeah, Nathan Fraser axiom like, let them have some showcase
singles matches instead of just tag matches that don't matter,
especially when it's like multiple teams.

Speaker 3 (01:02:38):
Yeah, well I would. I would actually really enjoy that.
I hope they do it.

Speaker 1 (01:02:41):
Yeah, let's talk Tiffany and Jade. We had a He'll
Turn by Jade Cargill. I wrote about that for VFP
members over the weekend, and I think it's a good move.
You know, Jade may not be ready to carry matches.
I wrote about that yesterday in a VIP article that
you know, maybe she's not ready to play that he'll
roll where you lead matches, but nobody can work around

(01:03:02):
that in the modern era. But I think it was
the right move when you look at the lay of
the land, and you know, like I said, I did
a VP way color hotline and right up on this
for VP members where I went in depth. So I
won't necessarily just hit all the bullet points on that.
I'm more interested in what you think of the timing

(01:03:23):
and the execution and the forecast for her in this role.
Would you have rather had her state baby face in
Tiffany turn heel or can you have both once they're
done with each other and Tiffany can go heal again?
I guess mostly I guess focus on Jad though.

Speaker 3 (01:03:36):
Yeah, both eventually. Yeah, but I think Jade needed to turn.
She just I mean, they've chosen, they chosen Tiffany as
the baby face, and she was just getting the better
of Jade in these matches. And so if you want
to do something to heat Jade up. It was like
put the title on her. She's really going to drift
down the card and I think this is their way

(01:03:58):
to get there. She just she hasn't connected as well
as I think they hoped she would as a babyface,
and so I think she was fine. But I do
think that this breathes some new life into that act
that just needed it really did. And I just but
I'm not sold on Tiffany Stratton as a baby face
long term. I've never really been a fan of it.

(01:04:20):
I just she's just tailor made to be a heel
and I don't know why they've resisted that. But yeah,
I mean, you have to get through this program and
somewhere down the road you can turn Tiffany. But yeah,
it's it's a big time for Jade. Can she just
have passable matches on a consistent basis now that she's

(01:04:41):
champion and probably gonna be working with a variety of opponents,
I'm very curious to see how she does.

Speaker 1 (01:04:47):
Yeah, I mean and passable without it's seeming like weeks
of planning went into it. Like sometimes her matches to
feel like, okay, that was passable, but it's like if
every phone conversation you had was something that you had
to get the questions submitted ahead time, think through what
your answers are going to be, type them out, have
someone read over them, edit them, and then you would

(01:05:08):
memorize them word for word, and then you're ready to
answer the telephone and talk like That's how Jade's matches feel.
It might be a good conversation because you put a
lot of thought into it, a lot of planning. Certainly
it's not off the cuff. You would have had other eyeballs. Look,
you know other people reading and going this is a
good thing. Maybe change that, But man, it was a
lot of work to get through in conversation. That's how Jade.
That's my analogy for Jade's matches. Sometimes I don't know

(01:05:31):
that I'm too far off on that. So, you know,
do they have is this a last ditch effort or
is this something they just always had in mind? Yeah,
she's big and powerful and kind of arrogant and full
of herself. If she's not going to be the role model, centerpiece,
you know, whole cocin to the women's division type, Oh,
put her on posters and some merchandise like crazy if

(01:05:52):
they've said no, that's not her thing. Let I think
it's you know, easier to cut Hell promos then Babyface
promos with her with her persona and look, so I
think I'm looking forward to it. I think I think
it's good and you know, I think we'll learn. We'll
learn some on Saturday. I mean, there's they had a
passable match, and I think they didn't have a lot
of time, but it was passable at Summerslams. So I'm yeah,

(01:06:13):
I think it's a good foe for Tiffany. I think
the idea is maybe this will be a few that
lasts that they revisit, you know, in three years and
six years. But I'm also ready for them to separate
from each other after after Saturday. But I'm curious what
they do for a finish here.

Speaker 3 (01:06:28):
I am too, Yeah, I would think it's Jade's title
to win. I mean, they said Tiffany with the knee injury,
so it probably plays into that. There may not be
a lot of chicanery there. It just maybe she really
targets that knee and does go over clean and then
coming out of it. I'm hoping eventually we get the

(01:06:50):
return of Bianca bel air, I say eventually, because if
she comes back right away, she's kind of put in
that position where you're probably losing coming right to the
champion right out of the gate. And so I don't
as much as I want to see beyoncre return, I
don't want to see her end up in that role.
I want to see them have that match when it counts,
and maybe you saved that, or wrestle ny if you can,

(01:07:12):
maybe Jay ducks her somehow, you take that approach to it.
But I do I can't believe it's taken Beyonca this long.
It I don't know what's going on there.

Speaker 1 (01:07:23):
I think somebody had commented because it's a hand injury,
right as far as I know, Yeah, And so I
mean there was like I think somebody had commented man Offs,
maybe just in the chatter in an email, that like,
you really don't want to reinjure those small bones and
you really need to let them fully heal. And if
a lot of a lot of times you just be
in a cast or you know, have it covered for
a long time, but that could stop her from wrestling safely.

(01:07:45):
So they just might be being really being a precautionary
kind of like a hamstring injury where you're just like,
we need to make sure this is fully healed because
we don't want to reinjury it. Or there could be
some permanent.

Speaker 3 (01:07:56):
Or a where you'll let a guy like go out
there in weird and I get being tremendous amounts of
pain rather than play the guy with the high ankle spring.

Speaker 1 (01:08:06):
Yep, yep uh. And we have we have a question
coming up on that Jason in the mail back, right.
We'll get to that imminently here. So, yeah, I don't
know if they're going to revisit the whole mystery uh
situation with the nail me out injured and coming back
and the storyline. I mean, they might just not reference
that because I think they're in such a different place now.

Speaker 3 (01:08:26):
Yeah yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:08:28):
All right. So the other match on side's main event
Dominic Mstero, Penta and Russev and a triple threat. You know,
I wrote again in my VIP article and wa Keiler
outline on the VIP side of things, I wrote about
John Johnsen his final opponent, you know, and then it
seems like it's you know, going through is the top
candidate being talked about right now? Dom is a favorite
to some people, and it's it'd be my pick based

(01:08:50):
on what I know, because I think gives a chance
for seeing it to get a clean, feel good win
against somebody who would be a delightful heel for him
to play up off of, and it would be a
cool moment for Dom if they believe he's gonna, you know,
be somebody that they're investing in long term in the future.
And it's just it's just a peacock event, you know,
it's not like we're Rumble Summer Summer s so Meania
where it's like, so I kind of made my case

(01:09:12):
for that, but you know, Gunther makes sense too. But
the downside, and this is kind of going back to
this match. It's seen him I get booed because Dom'm
so popular, and I could see Sina not wanting that
because it's like, well, God, I've finally got people cheered me,
and my last match is going to be getting booed
against a heel. I've been there. I don't want to
do that again. So it's interesting with with you know,
Penti is not that big of a deal. If Dom

(01:09:33):
gets booed like pent will be fine. He can just
wrestle his way into cheers. Russev is a heel. It's
it's intriguing becau. It's kind of like Dom and Gunther.
It's like, how are people going to react? They're probably
gonna boot Russeva and cheer Dom when those two are
facing off. So what is wwe up to with? Is
this just we got to do something with Russev and

(01:09:53):
they like to do singles turns into triple threat, you know,
and we saw that with U Dom's plan backfiring, and
so we kind of explains, oh, there was pentasce, now
it's pent and what do you think they're up to here?
And talk about Dom a little bit in that context.

Speaker 3 (01:10:10):
Well, first I have to say the way they got
to this match, it is infuriating, Like, yeah, every company
has to just stop this. We all know it. Home,
if we've been watching wrestling for more than three months,
because you guys do this this frequently, we get it.
If somebody interferes in a Number one Contenders match, it

(01:10:30):
doesn't mean the champion gets out of defending the title.
The only people who think that are the champion and
the dumbass announcers. Please stop every company out there. I
couldn't believe they.

Speaker 1 (01:10:40):
Did it again, so I'm not I'm not being a
contrary in here for the sake of the sport of it.
I thought that I'm totally with you in general almost always,
and I do believe the announcer should have shown that
they're smart to this. But I did think it was
delightful that Dom didn't know this and thought this would work,
because I was waiting for the moment when Adam Pierce goes,

(01:11:03):
come on, you seriously think that, No, you gotta face
both of them. That's how things work around here, Like
I was looking forward to Dom getting caught in this
plan that is so idiotic for the reasons you said
very artfully. I love the fact that Dom was oblivious
to that and thought because he just you know whatever,
So I was looking forward to him finding out. But

(01:11:24):
it would have been fun to actually have Finn Balor
go dumb. You know you're gonna have to face both
of them, like I would have liked Ballor to deliver
the news, not Pierce and and have done go what
and pala is like, that's what always works, Like I
want it to be a little more self referential than smart,
like you're you're looking for if they do it and
not have everybody play dumb. But I'm okay with Dom
being the butt of the of the kind of naives
you know, master plan that obviously is gonna backfire.

Speaker 3 (01:11:47):
See I'm not if it were a he was Jade Cargill. Okay,
she didn't grow up in the business. We know that
Dom has seen this five million times over the years.

Speaker 1 (01:12:00):
That is true. But Dom does seem like somebody because
he grew up with a famous father. He might think,
I am so I'm that this is how I'm gonna
have these friends. We're gonna attack these people, and someone's
gonna work because he's just convinced he can talk his
way into or out of anything, and then he runs
into an authority figure goes not so fast. I get

(01:12:21):
what you're saying. I was biased because I just I
like Dom's acting and I like when something doesn't work
and how he responds and just sort of that dismay
of you know, the exhale, like, oh god, that backfired
on me again. Because I'm okay with Dom being a
little dope.

Speaker 3 (01:12:36):
Yeah, I don't mind a little dope as part of
where they're going with him. I mean, I think they'll
probably do the scene of match in San Diego with
Survivor series, and it's not his final match. Being is
not gonna care if Dom gets cheered in his hometown.
And we've seen has been through it a million times.
So so and then I think you saved the heel,
the true heel for last probably going through. But it

(01:12:59):
was gonna Gunther and they don't want seeing it to
be booed in his final match. Bring him back soon.
You don't like, make oh, Gunter's here at the last minute,
because then people are going to be excited to see
him in cheer. So yeah, and this isn't in Boston,
we're seen as beloved. This is in DC, so it's
not like hometown. Of course, Seen is going to be cheered.

(01:13:21):
I think he will be, but you know, if they
play this right, But yeah, I don't. I think they
need to at least think this through. I'm sure they are,
But yeah, I think Dom is gonna eventually have a
babyface run. I hope it's not because the Americanos turned
on him. I couldn't give I just I don't care

(01:13:43):
about the Americanos. It's the same joke over and over again.
I know some people find the light in that. I'm
just over it. Like it was cute at first, and
it was cute when Ludwig Kaizer took over the act
for a week. And it's just the same. Oh they've
added two mark right, and it goes nowhere. It's just
it's the same joke over and over again. And what

(01:14:04):
gets me to like another announcer stupid? The announcers are stupid.
Moment they used to call that it was Chad Gabler.
At least the bag you know, the play by play
guy would and the heel would play stupid the heel
color commentator. Now they just like it doesn't register that
that's Ludwig Kaiser. They I mean, look at the neck.

Speaker 1 (01:14:23):
In the mannerisms.

Speaker 3 (01:14:24):
Yeah, yes, nothing they I know.

Speaker 1 (01:14:27):
I'm one hundred percent with you. The announcer should not
look like they're in on the con and they should
not seem like idiots. Yes, are you at pretty close?
One hundred percent? John Cena's because it's just two matches left, right.

Speaker 3 (01:14:40):
I believe so yeah, unlets me know, they could have
him work matches at those two raw shows one in
Boston x yep.

Speaker 1 (01:14:47):
And so if there's just two dom In kunthur Is
that is that like eighty percent chance. I think so yeah,
I did too, and with a Gunther thing, there isn't that.
I'm more for Don being the final match is then
Seena gets that feel good win for the final match,

(01:15:11):
because if he takes on Gunther, I don't want Seena
beating Gunther. But I don't think Gunther should beat Sena
in Sina's final match, sure, because I think it should
just be Sina. It's a feel good moment. I'm not
against Sena putting over Gunther, but I'd rather put him
over at Survivor Series and have him then beat Dom
on Center. It's made event regardless of the city.

Speaker 3 (01:15:29):
True would mean a lot more. If Gunthro is gonna
beat Shane his final match, I've seen it. Didn't just
lose to Brock.

Speaker 1 (01:15:35):
Yes, the caveat is I think, and I only think.
I don't know. They wanted to say Brock is a beast,
He's back, he pummeled seeing us to set up it
meaning something when Breaker beats him. I don't think they
feel like they need Gunther to be comparable to Bron
because Gunther is more surgical and Brock is more just

(01:15:55):
plow through people, and so I think you could believe
you don't look at Gunther as weak because he doesn't
destroy Sena. I think you can have Gunther beat Sena
in a goother way that gives Gunther a win over Sena,
and then you let that feel good match go last
with him beating Dom and not being in a crowd

(01:16:18):
that's gonna necessarily be overtly so for Dom, there's still
some fighting chance that Sin will get cheered, and they
have a way they Dom could be really obnoxious in
the few weeks leading up to that match in a
way where maybe maybe they can get people on sen
A side, but.

Speaker 3 (01:16:34):
It's maybe, yeah, pretty popular.

Speaker 1 (01:16:37):
I know, I know. Anytime you're watching WWE Raw or
SmackDown or aw Dynamite in particular, send us an email
if you've got thoughts on the show or a topic
you want us to address or a question for us.
Wade Keller Podcast at pwtorch dot com. Wade Keller Podcast
at petewtorch dot com. If there's anything else going on

(01:16:58):
in pro wrestling that you want us to add us
on our main podcast during our mailbank segments, that same
email applies Wade Keller Podcast at PW torch dot com.
We invite that interaction. Let us know what you think
of what we're saying, and let us know what you
want us to talk about and ask us specific questions.
Wad Keller podcast at PW torch dot com.

Speaker 3 (01:17:19):
Where where does I just I've just rebooked everything, So yeah, whatever,
domb faces Sina. The title is on the line, and
Sina wins, but it's not the intercontinental title. It's the
trile A Mega Championship. And then Sena's last match is
as one Scena, like five years from now. He brings

(01:17:41):
back the mask.

Speaker 1 (01:17:42):
Oh yes, cause Sina's like, I will do my best
not to wrestle again. My intention is not to wrestle again.
I don't want to be one of those people. There's
no I wouldn't even say there's hedging. I think he
also is believing what he's saying, but there is that
undercurrent of I'm talking myself into it because I know
everyone says this.

Speaker 3 (01:17:58):
Well, I mean he has to know Saudi Mania is
coming and there's going to be quite the offer there. Yeah,
it might even be like a smart move politically, just
like nope, I'm done. I mean, just make them want
something they can have.

Speaker 1 (01:18:14):
And then yeah, and then he gets out and take
the pick the big payday. He gets the first billion
dollar pay day.

Speaker 3 (01:18:20):
Yeah, something like that.

Speaker 1 (01:18:22):
Yeah, it's like the first hundred million dollar NBA contract.
I remember when Kirby Puckett got like a million dollar contract,
Like whoa, yes, yeah, so it's uh, it's increasing. Okay,
So so that's our our state's made event. Any quick
thoughts on on the state of Penta and recept just
since we are kind.

Speaker 3 (01:18:38):
Of I kind of glossed over that. So yeah, I
guess we're so focused on the way they got there.
But I Pinta to me, like, if you're not going
to get serious with this guy, if if this is
what he is, it is just okay. You can plug
him in and he can be in the Interconminental title picture,

(01:19:00):
but not win it. Really, you know, he's just he's
a guy. Then just put him with his brother and
do something with them. You I mean, I like the
idea that you said. You said, like early on, if
you want Penta to be a singles wrestler, you don't
start him as a tag guy you want you don't
want to kind of random that. But we're at the
point now where it's like do something with him or

(01:19:20):
just enough. You keep finding different partners for Ray Phoenix.
It's like I can think of one. He works Han
Raw and he's related to him. So just get there already.
If you're not going to enough you If you actually
have plans for Pentack, great, but I'm really skeptical that
they do. And so I mean, he could he win
the championship and have a cup of coffee with the
secondary title, sure, and really same with Russet, But I

(01:19:42):
do think Dom ends up coming out of as as champion,
and I hope that they protect Russev somehow. I know,
like he must be I suspect anyway, based on the
way he's been pushed in both companies. There's a reason
that he doesn't get pushed more aggressively, but I still
hope it happens at some.

Speaker 1 (01:20:01):
There is something about showing up to work hungry with ideas,
good listener, provide some feedback, as aspiring to succeed at
a higher level than you're at. I'm just not sure.
He strikes people in power who had that attitude in
their entire careers as having that kind of serious person

(01:20:24):
attitude towards his career and I think that that was
unchecked in AW and we had him, you know, do
you know, just doing the same type of cave promos,
selfie promo, you know, platitudes and stuff like that, and
he never seemed to like really mix with the talented.
It barely feels like he was in AW. You know,
you know how there would be like in the territory days,

(01:20:45):
there'd be the restler that the promoter is going to
bring in, but he wasn't at the TV tapings to
do promos with the interviewers, so they just send in
a tape, yes, like from another area. And that's what
this is is feeling like it's like he was never
actually ever on site in AW unless he a match,
you know, like it was always just sending in tapes
from like some dungeon that you know, some some studio
in his basement wherever, you know he was.

Speaker 3 (01:21:07):
So he spent most of it is like last year
or think in the company in Bulgaria.

Speaker 1 (01:21:12):
Yeah, yes, so I I believe he showed that without
that leadership, he wanted to be the video game guy
doing goofy stuff with Kip Saviian what I don't even know,
like what his peak moment was in aw but you
kept craving him to be like you want to see.

(01:21:32):
I mean, how did we not get a Mirro Kenny
O make a feud like that could have been great
based on Russa's peak peak work would have been fresh.
I could just list a bunch of other people like.

Speaker 3 (01:21:41):
The Temple is or Miro wasn't going to put over
Kenny Omega.

Speaker 1 (01:21:47):
Well, then then Tony Khan needs to like find the
power struck find find the power base to tell wrestlers
what to do or I don't.

Speaker 3 (01:21:56):
Know if that's if that is, but if that is
what it is, it should have been like, okay, then
you are going to be in breach of contract exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:22:05):
Yeah, don't pay the guy and have him get his
way in. And wrestlers started to feel they could take
advantage Tony if that were the case, and that was
you know, a rep with Alistair Malichai Black.

Speaker 3 (01:22:13):
You say it right now, by the way, Well, isn't
Chris Jericho putting people over if he's leaving? I mean
there's an eight issue there. Okay, if he's already exhausted
his dates, but if he's not, if that's not it,
you know, bring him in. I'm not even saying you
got it like job him out, but you can certainly
have him do some selective key jobs on the way out.

Speaker 1 (01:22:30):
So there hasn't been a tangent that presented to us.
We have not taken on the show so far, Jason,
we have used the structure of sentence made event to
talk about a wide array of things that are not
on it. So let's do it again here. And we've
got Mike Mike Rotunda, which was you know, a darker
or not a darks right word, but no, a somber
somber's word, A little bit of a somber topic. But
we reflect on his career. We've talked about John Cena's

(01:22:52):
final matches whatever, So let's talk about christ Jericho. I
talked earlier like I'm sure J're wish the contract situation
worked out where he could be seen a final opponent.
You know, he'd love to have that on her. Yeah, yeah,
even if it meant losing. I think he'd be like, oh,
I lose John c you know, just give me the
pay day and the I want to be the last
person to job to John Cena.

Speaker 2 (01:23:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:23:13):
I could see that, and.

Speaker 1 (01:23:14):
I don't think it would define down Jericho because I mean,
he's fifty six, I think, and he's not. He's not
going to be in WWE treated as a WrestleMania made
eventor I'm just sorry he's he's past that. So I
just I mean, do you think there is a.

Speaker 3 (01:23:34):
I don't think. I mean, he's fifty four. By the way,
he'll be fifty five in a week. Oh okay, so week.

Speaker 1 (01:23:41):
I knew his birthday is in October and I was thinking, yeah, yep,
so I was okay, Well, then changes everything. A fifty four,
fifty four year old can do anything, Jason that a forty.

Speaker 3 (01:23:51):
Four can do beat rock and often one more time.

Speaker 1 (01:23:57):
Yeah, I thought he had just turned and uh, just
turned fifty six, but he I thought he had just
turned the next year and I thought it was fifty.
But I guess he's fifty five, so stand corrected. Not
a big deal. But it really is everything until you're
fifty six and then it's nothing. It's not a big anyway,
back on track, here is he is he a candidate

(01:24:23):
to get one more serious run if he does go
to WWE, and if he doesn't with all this time
off in r Oh and away, if he's in shape,
and he stays in a w and again Jerich, which
just wants a lot of money. I think he'd prefer
for equal only to go to WWE, so we can
kind of have be on the big stage, given you
know that AW is not the big stage it was

(01:24:44):
when he that he hoped it would be when he
signed with them. Does he have another run a number?
Do we have to actually see him to tell, you know?
I mean, you got to see the shape he's in.

Speaker 3 (01:24:54):
I think we do. I mean, the last time we've
seen Jericho, he's been fine in the ring. You know,
he's not he's not not batting a thousand or anything
as far as his matches are concerned. But he also
hasn't embarrassed himself. And so yeah, I think he's been fine.
And I think in WWE, working that style, it's going
to be helpful, right, you know, And so I think

(01:25:18):
probably he's going to be fine, and I give him
a nice run. I don't headline WRESTLEMANI with him and
make him world champion necessarily, but if I also see
how the crowd takes to him in AW. There were
plenty of reasons that the fans turned on him, But
I don't think it's going to be like that in WWE.
And that's you know, I said, I think months ago

(01:25:40):
on this show. If I'm Tony Kahan, I let him go.
I don't care how big of a deal he can
be in WWE, because I don't think he can be
that big of a deal anymore in a w.

Speaker 1 (01:25:50):
Yeah, that's the thing. Fresh, a fresh environment would be
a real a real key yeah. Yeah, yeah, okay, Well
real quick though, yea, So how many like are you
just gonna have like every year there's going to be
a retirement tour because we're gonna get Aja next and
then probably Jericho after that. Yeah, I mean, I'm not

(01:26:11):
I'm okay with it if I mean, I don't think
we need a you know, Scorpio Sky retirement tour, hey now?
Or I mean I actually think Frankie Cazerin could have
a fun you know, he's he's having a blast. He's
having a time of his life in ten right now.
So if you want to talk, oh and just be
this vibrant personality. It's just like he's.

Speaker 3 (01:26:33):
He's found his voice. It took a long time, but
he really has over the last year.

Speaker 1 (01:26:37):
Or two yep, because I mean he he was cringey
in a w Yeah, I mean really his whole career
at time of like really in AW is just like
a jeez, you're trying too hard here. But yeah, he's
just I mean sometimes you just you know, your roam
from one dorm to the other until you find the
right party where your personality matches the mood of the room.
You know, that's kind he just he just looks like
a guy has been on a progressive you know, drinking

(01:27:01):
drinking around campus, checking out different parties in different different rooms. Yeah,
maybe Jericho of like eight years ago, I don't know,
maybe still that way. So anyway, let's see, I guess.
I mean, oh, I know I was gonna say in
three weeks we can talk more about Jericho because we

(01:27:21):
have you know, might have have more or maybe it'll
be in six weeks or whatever we'll have uh more
to say. But you know, it was fun having Tony
talk about Jericho. Like, I love Chris Jericho. He's a
huge part of AW. He's been here since the beginning,
and I think we'll see what happens here in the
coming months. He's been here since the beginning, and I
think we'll see what happens here in the coming months.
Is there more of a non answer than that?

Speaker 3 (01:27:42):
Like even worse way, he gives the same answer about
Britt Baker.

Speaker 1 (01:27:49):
Yeah, no, I I will, like I say, is there
more of a non answer? I'm I'm not saying that
full of judgment because I actually kind of am sympathetic
to the And it's very it's frustrating for us. I
get it, you know, like we want some insight. We
asked a quite why do the why do Q? And
as you're not going to answer anything? I get that.
But like, I don't think he wants to create news

(01:28:10):
sometimes with certain personalities because he's a smart guy. When
he feels he's being wronged or or or leveraged in
a way that makes him uncomfortable, or he feels the
here's disloyalty, or he's frustrated with somebody, he kind of doesn't.
I kind of admire the fact that he's not just
trying to make news by just blasting people indiscriminately, like
he's not Eric Bishop out the imagine Eric bit oh god,

(01:28:31):
you know, like, and I mean it's more fun for us.
So somebody just flies off the handle about stuff. But
it if you were asked, like, you know, tell me
the turning point to the American Revolution, and Tony Khan's
answer would be the American Revolution had to do with
America and there was a turning point in it that
led to a revolution. Like's you're not saying anything.

Speaker 3 (01:28:55):
We know he was.

Speaker 1 (01:28:56):
We know he was there from the beginning and we
by definition will see what happen.

Speaker 3 (01:29:00):
In the coming respon on pop quiz back in the
day totally.

Speaker 1 (01:29:05):
And then he goes he's always welcome, He's a big
part of a w would always want him here. So
you get a little bit at the end, which is
he's willing to say I don't hate his guts and
never want to see him again, like you don't say
that about somebody like that. So there's a little bit
of that, but most of it was just you know,
begging the question. You know, you can imagine, like the
key for Tony for these Q and a's is say
all the obvious things in your question so he can't

(01:29:27):
repeat them as if it's the answer. So my question
on Jericho wouldn't be how do you feel with Chris
Jericho's is he going to stay in a no? What
you go is Chris Jericho. Tony, as you know, has
been a huge part of AW. He was there from
the beginning, and certainly we're going to see what happens
in the coming months. And I suspect you think Chris
was always welcome because he's a founding roster member and
a big part of AW, and you'd always want to

(01:29:49):
have him there. But what are the odds of him
staying there? And do you and then get specific, because
then he'd feel hopefully foolish saying all the things he
actually said as a non answer, just restating the question.
So get all the stuff you think he's going to
say into your question and then see if that corners
him into actually addressing something very specific. And that is

(01:30:10):
from a journalist perspective. That is not me advising Tony
Kahan on how to get in trouble or make news
he doesn't want to make. That's for us trying to
make headlines.

Speaker 3 (01:30:18):
Yeah, and I'll defend Tony a little bit, at least
on a personal level, just because the last time, two
out of maybe the last three times, I can tell
like he's outright told me, like he's been honest about
trying to give an answer to that kind of thing. Yeah,
to my question, so I and I appreciate that, but yeah,

(01:30:38):
it across the board, and it is just it'll not
be a little more forthcoming. I don't I really don't
expect him to bury Jericho to Barry rick Baker. But
I think sometimes you can just say no comment.

Speaker 1 (01:30:50):
Letter to Barry Britt Baker. I'm okay with that. Baker
had a cup of coffee as a star in this business, Jericho,
It's like, yeah, you gotta kind of you don't look
like you're going to bury somebody with his with with
all he gave to your company, but would be fun. Yeah,
all right, let's uh. I mentioned we had an emailbou
jj McCarthy. Let's get that in here. It's Jermaine from Chicago,

(01:31:13):
and he says, I waited Jason.

Speaker 3 (01:31:16):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:31:17):
This is a rebuttal from a question that I asked
on Jason's Great dot Net Member Exclusive Q and a
audio show that he, as a man of the people,
does for his subscribers. Should NXT have world champions who
you can only see as mid car champions on the
main roster. If Carmelo Hayes, Ricky sayings ceiling isn't world Champion.
Shouldn't NXT have more Bronz Breaker Tiffany Stretton types as champs.

(01:31:40):
Shouldn't they get the time on top of NXT as
opposed to wasting people's time in getting and having them
en up disappointed.

Speaker 3 (01:31:47):
Sometimes you have to play the courage that you're dell.
You don't always have the right people there. And no,
I don't think Sean Michael should have to worry about walk.
How would they are they to book this person on
the main roster? I you know, if Paul levec like
gives him that in strot like, hey, you know, we

(01:32:07):
want to protect this person or this is the guy
that I think you should really be building around down here. Okay,
but if not, I don't think Sean and his crew
should give it a second thought as to what they're
going to do on the main roster they're booking for now.
And so yeah, and look at real sports, there's plenty
of highly touented prospects that you know, might be a

(01:32:29):
king crap in the Triple A and they get to
the big leagues and they don't have it, And so yeah,
I mean it's not like it's just I don't know
I to answer the question now, I don't think it
needs to be that way. Ideally, do you have some
people that you can point to that they had their success? Yeah,
but they do, you know. I mean broad Breaker was

(01:32:49):
the NXT champion, and so they have plenty of people
they can point to that had successful runs on the
main roster after being an XT champion. So yeah, but
I just wait, do you disagree that they I just
don't think they should worry about that if on the
NXT creative level.

Speaker 7 (01:33:12):
I'm Kelly Wells, host of PWT Talks NXT, the longest
running NXT podcast Anywhere. Join me along with Nate Lindberg,
Bruce Lee, Hazelwood, and special guests live every Tuesday night,
just minutes after NXT, where we cover the good, the bad,
and the ugly on the way to becoming a star
in WWE. Check us out live on YouTube or stream

(01:33:32):
later wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 1 (01:33:42):
I was my answer, or my response what you said
is everything you just said? Is my answer? I agree, No,
I do cross the board. You go with what you
have and I'd like the mix. And by the way,
I don't think, well, no, I'm not gonna go over
I just say, I don't think you should really Carmelo
Hayser Ricky Saints being a world champion in w B,

(01:34:02):
but it would only be the World Heavyweight Championship, not
the main Yeah, but I I think there's a just
enough there with Ricky Saints and a potential with Carmelo.
I am my odds are lower than fifty percent for
sure on both of them, but but I want to
roll it out, and so yeah, I think that's fine.
I mean, and you know, I don't know if you've

(01:34:23):
thought Ethan Page fit in there, but your goal is
to have entertaining an entertaining product that at the same
time is developing talent. And sometimes developing talent means you
have a champion who's a good hand in the ring
of good veteran, who is an obnoxious or likable depending
on the role of the up and come, who ultimately

(01:34:45):
loses to somebody who is that future top top act
on the main roster. But yeah, you don't you don't
always have the choice. You know, you don't always have
a choice. Just go with the next person who's going
to be a wrestlemenium and inventor as your NXT champion.
So you know, you can't vacate the title when you
don't have somebody like that, And I think it get
kind of boring and predictable if that's the only options

(01:35:05):
that you chose.

Speaker 3 (01:35:06):
Yeah, for sure. And you know, I'm very curious to
see what happens with Ricky Saints because it really jumped
out on Sunday that everybody was really over on that
show until he made his entrance and not that they
turned on him, and in fact, by the end of
the match, it seemed like he won maybe a quarter
to a half the crowd over that nobody rejected him,

(01:35:29):
but they weren't reacting like they were seeing a star
and it's one crowd going over think it, but it
was noticeable way. But yeah, they weren't like there to
see Ricky Saints.

Speaker 1 (01:35:41):
No, it didn't, it didn't. I thought Ricky's promo on
Tuesday was the best he's had that I've seen in
like he showed fire at the end. But it felt
like almost like I got to get in gear here,
like I got to step up. I'm the champion, people
assay see it coming. I need to now elevate it.
More of the blame, not not on that ring entrance,

(01:36:02):
but like, the match to me was fine, but it
when it was fifteen minutes over, I was like, I
only felt like I watched almost like maybe ten minutes
like it it It didn't feel like a drag, but
it also didn't feel like they had done enough to
justify that fifteen minutes I'd gone by, Like, I was like, really,
and I thought Trick Williams was underperformed in this one,

(01:36:25):
just in terms of like when you're looking at like
a future star, I did not. I saw more personality
and spark and and surefootedness in the ring with Ricky
than I did with Trick. I didn't think this was
if if Nick con is like, let me look at
this Trick Williams, guy, I've been paying attention, I think
it'd look watch that if he has an eye for
things and go. I don't think he's jumping off the
screen to me. What So I agree with you with Ricky,

(01:36:47):
there's it's not instant and I don't know why, and
that can be explored. But what do you think about
how Trick Williams looked in that match? Do you blame
Ricky Moore in the circumstances or is this kind of
par for the course from what you've seen with Tricky,
or do you disagree with my assessment that there was
he felt a bit off and kind of lacklesser a part.

Speaker 3 (01:37:06):
For the course With Trick, I'm not blown away by him.
As far as his ring work is concerned. It's certainly
improved over the years. He's come a long way. He
was very I mean he started I don't even remember
his background if you've done any wrestling before, but if
he had, he really came in green one way or another.
And yeah, he's like I said, he's improved. He's had

(01:37:29):
He's that guy that if you put him in there
with the right opponent, they can have a pretty good match.
If it's somebody that can't really carry him. It's good
what you saw on Saturday, I guess it was is
what you get. There's still that shortcoming there, but I
don't know. I mean, he's done everything there is to

(01:37:50):
do in x T. I think at some point you
have to just pull the trigger and hope that working
with more people on the main roster, more experienced people,
is going to help him rather than always kind of
working with just you know, whoever the best people are
in NXT and I guess a little bit in TNA
as well, because he so cares Mack. There's a lot

(01:38:11):
to love about Trick Williams. It's just can he continue
to improve in the ring? Or has he? Is this
what you get? You know? Is he just that guy
that is I mean they Sean Michaels really used to
sing his praises when he was doing the media calls
about this guy. He's a sponge. He wants to learn everything,
and that's great, but not everybody has it in the ring.

(01:38:32):
And I just don't know that that he's terrible. There's
certainly worse, but I don't know that he's just that's
going to be his calling card.

Speaker 1 (01:38:40):
And he was a guy standing used the heavy, standing
behind or next to Carmelo, and Carmelo was gonna be
the worker. And then it's like, wait, maybe there's something here,
and then you push and you're like, oh, maybe there's
less there than we thought. That's kind of where I am,
and I think that's where they are. That's why he's
shipped off the TNA and just you know, losing clean
the finish like came suddenly. Also, I don't know, I
was a time issue or or they just kind of

(01:39:01):
wanted to establish Hey, matches can end any time. But
I didn't know what to make of that, or if
that means he's getting called up because it's like the
last you know, the last clean job before you leave
the territory, so to speak.

Speaker 3 (01:39:11):
Yeah, I didn't really care for the way they did
the finish either, and they both kicked out of a
big move and then it was just kind of the
awkward and I think there was something at ringside and
then the the was it a tornado? D D T
if I remember right? You know, it's just was like, oh,
that's the finish huh. And I don't know if it's
because Ricky usually I don't think he is a road
sambau there. That's usually his finisher. And is it just

(01:39:34):
trick is too big for it? I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:39:38):
Yeah, well you've been talking about uh Ricky Saints here
is where do you think, based on what you've seen,
he would do on the main roster because some people
are just better on the main roster than an NXT
for some reason. I wish I had examples to back
up what I just said, but I think there are,
But it what do you wear? What have you learned

(01:40:01):
from him with the push and the care in the
infrastructure that NXT provides that's different than a W and
that what have you learned about him, good or bad
so far that that tells you something more about how
you think you'd do on rhar SmackDown.

Speaker 3 (01:40:17):
I don't know that I've learned a lot about Ricky
since he's come to NXT. I kind of feel like
he's the same guy doing the same thing in a
different promotion, and like he's he has his act down.
It's he's entertaining. They've tried to get him over on
a personal level by telling his story, you know, being
from New Orleans and the flood and everything, and I

(01:40:41):
don't know that it registered. For whatever reason, it just
didn't seem like that was something that just was a
curning point for him where all of a sudden fans
really embraced him. There's maybe I don't know. When I
see Ricky, I like a lot of what he does,
but I just and maybe it's just a met thing.

Speaker 8 (01:41:01):
You know.

Speaker 3 (01:41:02):
You let me know if you think I'm getting this wrong.
But I see a guy who's got a lot of swag.
But if you look in the eyes. I don't know
that he really believes in what he's that he has
as much that the swag is real. I just see
a lot of uncertainty there.

Speaker 1 (01:41:20):
And I think I think in real life that's true. Yeah,
you know there there feels there, feels like he's playing
a role that he thinks fits certain traits he has.
But I think fans see and look at that and
go what you're seeing there there, whether they are thinking
it consciously or not, and it works against him. There's
a little bit of the posing and the routine that

(01:41:43):
does feel practiced and performative.

Speaker 3 (01:41:46):
Yeah, I'm not a fan of the post. It was
fine to start with, and now I'm just like every
time I see like whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:41:51):
Because yeah, there's examples of that where rest would just
go to something too much and it just feels like
it was like Bobby Rud's on my mind. So it's like,
you know, it always it pays to be rude, and
it's like you're a baby face and that means nothing.
It's just a pun like it meant something the first
time you said it, and now and I kind of

(01:42:12):
feel a way about we want the smoke, I mean
it it like it's just you. You don't you're not
even thinking about what that means and what it It's
just it's sort of a general philosophy. But it's and
now it's even lost that it's it's not only is
it general and not specific, it's just a lazy thing
you end on now that feels like you're just sort
of coasting through your your weekly duties on TV.

Speaker 8 (01:42:31):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (01:42:32):
Yeah, and so I've been rolling in.

Speaker 3 (01:42:34):
Imagined that one for like a few years now. I
guess they still want to smoke, right.

Speaker 1 (01:42:39):
Yeah, Like that's not news, and it feels lazy and
repetitive and unimagined.

Speaker 3 (01:42:45):
Damn smoke already, so we can stop hearing about it.

Speaker 1 (01:42:47):
Yes, Sometimes when you say something that is that has
a sort of cleverness to the structure or its nature
you're implying, you think you're being clever, and and then
when you're not, because you just set it over and
over again mindlessly for years, I think people sort of
resent it or tune out because you're presenting something as

(01:43:08):
And that's why cliches lose their steam after a very
short period of time. It shouldn't be really used much
after that, because there's a there's a novelty to a cliche,
and then there comes a point where the novelty's gone.
It's not clever, and now you're just being lazy. Instead
of just using specific words, you're leaning on some multiple
So cliches are clean. You know what they say, Cliches

(01:43:30):
should be avoided, like the plague and that. Uh, that's
kind of we feel about the catchphrases. Yes, they have
a novelty at first. It helps get you over, it
gives you something, but at some point it just seems
like your target market is only eight to eleven year
olds when you do that. Yeah, yeah, thanks for downloading
today's show. Take it to the next level with a
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(01:43:53):
Weight Killer Prosing Post Show, and the PW Torch daily
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Speaker 3 (01:44:26):
You know one thing about Ricky jumped out to me
when he was in the one time I remember seeing like, Oh,
this guy. I mean, there's times where you can tell
it he's feeling it and he feels good about himself.
And I would say that the time that it stood
out most at where it was like, oh, this is
a change. He looks really confident. I believe he was
teaming with Samoa Joe.

Speaker 1 (01:44:45):
Interesting. Interesting. I don't recall that jumping out to me,
but I can't disagree with it either. I just don't recall.
I'm glad he's getting a chance in the NX structure
to do this. I do think they're going to be
aware of I think there's there's a little bit of
i'd say Aldo Montoya pjo in him. Sure where there's

(01:45:07):
sort of there's an insecurity. And I don't want to
say he's a follower, but I don't know. I don't
know how far that goes. But like he wasn't like
officially in the click, but he was a hanger on
and Ricky is more than that. But I think there
is a self doubt where you're trying to find your
footing and project true confidence that that Paul Hayman tried

(01:45:30):
to bring out in him as just incredible when he
was pushing it as a top guy in ACW, But
there was still something there where you're like, does he
believe this? Does he really believe he is what he's saying?
So anyway, all right, so onto JJ McCarthy, who might
fit the trick Williams. Some of the stuff you're sayinghout
trick Williams. How many great how many games before Max

(01:45:51):
Brosmer unseats JJ McCarthy as a starter of the Vikings
this year?

Speaker 3 (01:45:55):
Thanks Apparently they have no interest in going to Tim
Brosmer because they had every chance in the world. In
that last game when Carson wentz. I felt so bad
for him, like he just was in agony. You could
just see it.

Speaker 1 (01:46:10):
Yes, yes, the scorer is out of.

Speaker 3 (01:46:13):
Hand, just make the change. And they wouldn't, and I
mean the mercifully at the end, But my god, what
were you waiting for?

Speaker 1 (01:46:22):
They don't want Max to have a great game, to
create a quarterback controversy when they're going to JJ next week.
I mean, that could be it.

Speaker 3 (01:46:31):
It could be. And if it is, like shame on them.
I mean it's you can't coddle the kid like that.
But yeah, I mean, I we haven't seen enough from
j J to now. You know, you gotta remember when
he was playing number one. I seen it the first
games of his career, that the two games that he
was in, and he looked really good for like a
quarter and a half. You know, he won that game

(01:46:53):
over ger Man's Bears at the end and it looked
very good. And then the next game he had a
short week and a kid that week, his first child
is born, and the coach was saying, like, I missed
a practice, which this point in his development, I can
see where that's an issue. But then he also came
in like three hours of sleep, and its just that's

(01:47:14):
what happens. And so I think that the other thing
you have to look at with with JJ is who
he's playing with didn't have a good offensive line at all.
They've just been so beaten up and it hasn't gotten
dramatically better, but it is better lately, and so that
will help, and then it will you know, it wasn't

(01:47:34):
he didn't have Jordan Addison on the field either, so
it was everybody just cover Justin Jefferson and take him away.
And who was he gonna throw to? And and because
Hockinson the tight end should be it's usually that the
tight end is a young quarterbacks best friend. But Hockinson
has had to stay in and ship block and everything else,

(01:47:55):
and he just hasn't been the receiving weapon that they
want him to be. Because he can't, they need somebody
to help that offensive line. And so yeah, it's been
a mess for both of the quarterback so far. And
I guess we'll see what JJ has starting on Sunday.
And more than anything, like, dude, just stay healthy so
we can actually find out.

Speaker 1 (01:48:16):
I know, I know, and it could be great. I mean,
there's no doubt there's rights been some things they've seen
in him or they believe in him. But I think
you know, when when you're talking about Tony Kahan, you know,
at the press conference, I was trying to think who
you were talking about, but I felt like, you know,
the the oh no, no, it was Shawn Michael's talking

(01:48:36):
up to coins. That's what it was. And he really
talk him up, and it's like and now now it's like, oh,
he doesn't do that now because like and now you
wonder if we're going to see that with a Vikings coach,
like does does uh case? What's what's his nickname? KOs
kaoss Like it's not k c O KOs of course
Kevin o conn KAO c is is he's going to

(01:48:56):
stand up there And it's like, have you sensed he's
hedging it all from his bright eyed, bushytailed enthusiasm for
this this steal in the draft, like when he talks
about them or is it just if if there is
something less than that, it's that just angst over health
things are going in general.

Speaker 3 (01:49:10):
I gotta be honest, I've been so bitter with this
season that I haven't been watching the media calls or
the you know, the press conferences like I normally would.
I've just been flip it on after the game is over,
something like that, have it on in the background while
watching another game. But and some of it too, is
like we've been playing at weird times almost every week
of this season.

Speaker 1 (01:49:30):
Yes, I know, it's been so weird, and I think that.

Speaker 3 (01:49:34):
Is part of the issue. I really do I'm not
trying to make I mean, they've sucked, there's no way
around it. They've they've been bad, they've been underwhelming and disappointing,
all the things you could say. So it's not me
just saying like, oh, there's a reason for everything. But
I don't think playing this odd schedule has helped good
teams that when the Super Bowl gets stuck doing that,
you know, they're playing at three, they're playing in primetime,

(01:49:55):
all that stuff. But with us, it's you know, that
two week trip overseas, open up on a Monday night,
come back the next week on a Sunday night. Then
I think we had one noon game, went overseas for
two weeks to play at eight thirty in the morning
our time, and then come back and they have a
bye week, and then they start off on a what
was it a Thursday night? No, they played it Sunday

(01:50:16):
and then they play Thursday. Like, can we just get
a streak where we play it noon central for a while.
I mean, these guys are creatures of habit, and when
you take away that structure, I do think it has
an effect on them too too.

Speaker 1 (01:50:30):
And it wasn't enough to just not have to play
in Pittsburgh to justify saying yes.

Speaker 3 (01:50:33):
To it all that was silly say that again.

Speaker 1 (01:50:36):
It wasn't enough to say yes to this, the back
to back overseas if just to avoid playing in Pittsburgh,
which is sort of the story they kept.

Speaker 3 (01:50:42):
Saying, Oh, now, gosh, playing in Pittsburgh.

Speaker 1 (01:50:45):
We'd rather play neutral site overseas than play in Pittsburgh
where the Hot fans are so hostile, which is kind
of a weird thing.

Speaker 3 (01:50:52):
They really liked that overseas money, right, because they have
become a pretty popular team in teams like that said,
Hot's furs day him whatever it is in that area especially.

Speaker 1 (01:51:02):
Yep, yep, all right on the eew side of things.
The follow up to Moxley submitting to Darby last week,
what did you think of kind of the story they're
telling with Moxley where he's coping with and processing having
quit and not wanting to be put in that position again.

(01:51:22):
And yeah, I mean he's you know, we're talking about
Jay is on a journey. I mean, Moxley's on a journey.
And I like watching wrestling when we see wrestlers progressing
and reacting to things that happened in a compelling way
are we on that path with Waxy right now? We're not.

Speaker 3 (01:51:39):
Maybe. I mean it's it's one finish And I guess
I didn't even really think that much that heart about it.
It was just like, but it makes sense what you're saying.
I still I feel like I've unbroken record with this. Yeah,
didn't happen this time. Maybe after blood and Guts he
can go and take some time away and right right,

(01:52:00):
it's not being like a Moxley hater or whatever you
want to say, it's not at all. It's just he
needs to get off the TV for a little bit.
I think it would do wonders if he just took
like six weeks away it's not that long, and then
come back fresh. And maybe that's what they've been withing.
They've got this story arc where they're gonna hopefully put
an end to the Death Riders. I don't know if

(01:52:21):
they will, but they should. And as I've been pointing
out lately too, way like whenever that day comes where
they put an end to the Death Riders, there's not
a single John Moxley versus anyone that he's currently aligned
with match that I want to see, like a TV
match with Wheeler, yudas stor but like a pay per
view match, not a one.

Speaker 1 (01:52:41):
No is PUC gonna seize this potential opening in Moxley
showing weakness or a lack of certitude and I don't know,
angst over what's going on and try to take over
the Death Riders, like is that because some people have
suggested that that might be where things are heading. And
then you end up with maybe Moxley and Darby against

(01:53:03):
Pack and Wheeler or Claudio.

Speaker 3 (01:53:06):
If he's going to chink the look man, Well I.

Speaker 1 (01:53:11):
Knew you're going to say that.

Speaker 3 (01:53:11):
Yes, you know, for years, this guy like he didn't
he was like Randy Orton. You didn't see him anything
other than his front, like does he own pants? And
now that we do see him, it's like, oh, go back, man,
this this this baggy shirt thing that he's doing just
looks Bushley.

Speaker 1 (01:53:25):
I'm sorry, yeah, yeah, that said do you think they
might be heading that way based on the lay of
the land with how he's been acting and and you know,
to keep the Death Riders as a faction, but you know,
it's kind of picksides and and mox and Derby because
they're clearly telling a reconciliation, reunion story with those two
down the line, despite what they've tried to do to

(01:53:45):
each other. That that's certainly on the table. I'll put
it that way, should stay, it's it's it's a for
sure a destined at the landing place, but that that
certainly is a up. That feels like a story they're
telling and they could be heading that way.

Speaker 3 (01:53:57):
Yeah, and if if they think later, I'll put in
Claudio against those two. No, I'm sorry. It's just Claudia
is great in the ring. He is, but there's always
been something missing and maybe it creatively, people could have
done a better job along the way. I'm not even
blaming him completely. And you know, I mean I think

(01:54:17):
the right mouth piece was needed and he just never
had it. And Pack, I I've always liked Pack, but
him coming back and with the new look and everything,
I'm pretty sour on that. So I do think they're
gonna get to something with Darby and Moxley, thank you right,
And that might be what they have plan, but I
don't think it's money. I really don't. If that's what

(01:54:40):
they're that's the direction they're going in. Pack is a
guy that he promos are always kind of interesting, but
he's never really stood out as that true leader. And
but I think he's better off in that role than
Claudia would be.

Speaker 1 (01:54:55):
Yeah, I do too. Yeah, I think I think Pak
would be the leader over you to Die Garcia and Claudio.

Speaker 3 (01:55:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (01:55:06):
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Speaker 4 (01:55:09):
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Speaker 1 (01:56:19):
What is the best thing in aw right now?

Speaker 3 (01:56:23):
Hmmm, I guess the World title picture. You know, I'm
hangman Page. I think is doing a fine job as champion,
and I'm not even saying like that. It's been a
great situation with the World Championship because the challenger has
come out of nowhere now, you know, all of a sudden,
Kyle Fletcher's turned like huh okay. I like Kyle Fletcher,

(01:56:45):
but why now? And then the same thing with samo Joe,
just out of the blue, and like you said, really
it might have been you know, some of the Tony
was very adamant that Fletcher was the guy. It was
not because of wordliw he that was one. He just
was very seafelt strongly about that one. But like I said,
it might have been for Joe instead, that would make sense.
But yeah, I do think Page is in a pretty

(01:57:09):
good place. And the key now is for Tony to
start lining up the challengers and building them up in advance,
not just oh, let's just pull this one in because
that's what's happened these last two. And we'll see what
they do tomorrow. And then I kind of I suspect
some of Joe wins and gets his rematch, but yeah,
you do have lastly in there. I think that's a

(01:57:30):
money match at some point that they can go to
or a big TV match, But it's just diegana start
building people up and looking at the roster. That's kind
of the sad part is like, other than the usual
suspects on top, there's just for a company that has
so much young talent, they're not really being put in
position to just climb that ladder to the main event level.

(01:57:54):
I thought it would have happened in more cases than
it has by now.

Speaker 1 (01:57:58):
I talked a lot about this in the last week.
But the simojo promo, I'm just so down on it,
like yeah, oh, like, how after all this time does
that make air? Like are there actually people who think
that's what themojo should say? Given all the things you

(01:58:19):
could talk about, all the ways you can react to
a loss, all the ways you can establish a heel turn,
all the ways that you can you can shift a
baby face faction to a heal faction, and that's what
he delivered. I mean, it's it. I don't want to
say it's like a defining moment for him, but it
did make me think less of him.

Speaker 3 (01:58:38):
Was definitely jarring like that, yeah, uh okay insult insert
insult of hometown team here.

Speaker 1 (01:58:46):
Really Joe like, if Wardlow turned heel er, I am
always coming for you and I will be relentless like
what he like. Everything about it was so like Gene, like,
you know what I what I wrote and said in
my VIP side of things about this when I went
to depth on a few days go, is this looked

(01:59:07):
like a promo that somebody would write if they grew
up sort of watching wrestling, thought they knew more than
they really do. Watched aw for two weeks knew nothing
about samo Joe and said, oh, this guy turned heel.
Here's what he should say. Let's have him insult the
crowds at the crowd booze, and let's have him throw
platitudes out there that have no context that actually has
tied anything Joe's done in the past, uh, pulling from

(01:59:27):
the rich history of his career. And and be sure
we don't say anything about Hobbs and a shabata other
than a cheap joke about Hobbs liking fact checks. I mean,
it was honestly, just just so I was like, so sad,
that's what I was looking forward to, Like this is
going to be a showcase for him, And honestly, I

(01:59:49):
think it should be. I think you should be embarrassed
by the choices he made there. Delivery is fine, It's
just that's that's that's a third year heel who doesn't
have a lot of all the nuance thats Mojo has shown.
So my my being down on Joe so much is
because I think he's just he's shown he's so capable
of more. Yes, So it was it was just low
hanging fruit cliche, generic dribble and what this is in

(02:00:11):
a poor time for aw there. Their viewership is hitting
record lows or near record lows. Attendance isn't going you know,
isn't going up. It's going down most of the time.
It's you know, they're they're there. They lost Swerve and
and and Osprey. You know, you don't know what you're
gonna get with Omega. Danielson's just you know, doing hit
or misscolor commentary. There's a lot of things that just

(02:00:32):
aren't where they once were, and you need Joe to
step up, and he didn't, and.

Speaker 3 (02:00:38):
He had before that. That's I was just so surprised
by that. That's just not Joe. And yeah, I don't
know where that came from. There needs to be layers
to this whole ops thing. It can't just be about Joe.
We didn't get that there. I compared it to like
going to like a small independent show that's getting people

(02:01:01):
don't go to wrestling and they have the heel established.
He's a heel and so he insults the hometown sports camp.
That's how it came off to me.

Speaker 1 (02:01:09):
Spot On Yep, Yeah, I agree, well on that note,
Chase and anything else you want to say before we
sign off, any other topic, maybe something from TNA or not.
It's funny, you don't he and A.

Speaker 3 (02:01:20):
I mean, right now is a great time. We just
had our biggest show of the year. Let's do best
of content. I don't know what's going on there.

Speaker 1 (02:01:27):
That's Oh, I'm not a not a fan of of
the off season. This is we got our get our
off season example. Now, this is what.

Speaker 3 (02:01:34):
If you want to have an off season, like explain
that that's what you're doing, and maybe it'll actually make
Bound for Glory even more attractive.

Speaker 1 (02:01:43):
That's true.

Speaker 3 (02:01:43):
Yeah, and instead, yeah, I don't know what this is.
I mean, they come back with tapings on I think
the thirteenth of November, and so it's not like they're
just done for the year, but it's I mean, I'm
hoping it's like, well, they've got a TV deal in
the works and that's why. But they did something similar
last year. We're coming out of Bound for Glory. They
had a best of or you know, kind of a

(02:02:04):
Bound for Glory recap show. And I just keep looking
at going people defending this, like what would you say if,
like the night after wrestle Mania that's what they did
with Raw No, And I've talked to people he used
to work for the company, like, No, that was one
of our biggest annual ratings boosts was coming out of
Bound for Glory, And so they're baffled. They don't get

(02:02:26):
it either, and it's really it's a really strange call.
I hope it's a TV deal, but there hasn't been
a lot of buzz lately.

Speaker 1 (02:02:33):
No, All right, well then that'll be our TA topic.
But it's the pertinent one. Actually, yeah, you think about it. Yeah,
all right, for good Jason, tell people how they can
hear more from you, read more from you, and support
what you do.

Speaker 3 (02:02:48):
Yeah. Pro wrestling gott net is the website. I'm updating
that pretty much if I'm awake. There's live reviews of
all the major television shows, pay per views and pls,
and news fixes throughout the day, hit list and editorials
and all that good stuff. Again, it's pro wrestling dot Net.
We have the free Pro Wrestling Boom podcast. It is

(02:03:08):
a weekly podcast that I host oftentimes with the members
of the pro wrestling media, just discussing the current events
in wrestling. This week, the plan is for Jake Burnett
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I want to give people kind of a sample of
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a non POE, seems like a good opportunity to do

(02:03:30):
it without ticking off the members who pay for this stuff.
If you are interested in membership, everything becomes ad free,
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And then the flagship is the dot nea weekly audio
show that Jake Barnett and I co host on Fridays,
just looking back at all the news of the week.
Your interested membership, visit PEW membership dot net. That's PW
Membership dot net. I will back up. I don't think
I told you where to find the Boom Pretty simple,
do a search for Pro Wrestling Boom on Apple Podcasts

(02:04:12):
or wherever you get your podcast. Very simple there, and
jumping back on the membership side of thing, there is
a Patreon option too. Maybe you want to listen to
the shows the audio on Spotify that is available if
you want to look at the Patreon side of things,
and you will not get access to the website, but
you might be able to save yourself a little bit
of money depending on the tier you choose. It's Patreon

(02:04:33):
dot com, slash, pro wrestling dot net, spell out the
dot net for that one, d O T an EP
and if you have any questions, hit me up on
social media all the major platform that is at pro
wrestling Net.

Speaker 1 (02:04:45):
Awesome, Jason, thank you as always pleasure talking wrestler.

Speaker 8 (02:04:48):
Yeah, thank you.

Speaker 1 (02:05:07):
Invite you to email the show with feedback or questions
or comments. That email address is Wade Keller Podcast at
petwtorch dot com. That's Wadekeller Podcast at PW torch dot com.
Also welcome your feedback on Twitter. You can follow us
on Twitter at PW torch and follow me at the
Wadekeller That's at PW torch and at the Wade Keller.

Speaker 3 (02:05:29):
Searching for more great pro wrestling talk, then join me.
Jason Powell host them the three weekly Pro Wrestling Boom podcast.
Each week he'll hear the latest news and analysis from
me and my team at Pro Wrestling dot need, along
with other pro wrestling media members, plus The Pro Wrestling
Boom podcast features long form interviews with notable names in
the pro wrestling industry. Subscribe and Itunestitcher, downcast, and all

(02:05:51):
your favorite secondary apps, or visit us directly at PW
boom dot com. Once again, that's PW boom dot com.

Speaker 1 (02:06:00):
Thanks for listening to our podcast. Did you know we
also have a website pwtorch dot com. Daily news updates, editorials,
and my live TV coverage covering Raw, Dynamite and SmackDown
and my live pay per view coverage for WWE and AEW.
Create a tab or bookmark make it a daily stop.
Visit us throughout the day every day to keep up
on breaking news and more. That's pw torch dot com.

Speaker 5 (02:06:24):
Need an extra dose of positivity in your wrestling podcasts,
will come join me Alan forel Over in the Progress
Paradise at pterweow Torch VIP as we mask on the
bright side of wrestling and focus on some of the
great matches and shows from around the world, be it US, Japan,
Europe or Mexico.

Speaker 1 (02:06:43):
There's always a.

Speaker 5 (02:06:44):
Place for wrestlings past and the Paradise too, and we've
done fun historical shows such as the We Love Liger
series celebrating the glorious career of Jusian thunder Light and
our I was there when shows where our guests will
join me to talk about a classic bout that they
were in attend for. We love variety and you can
expect lots of it at the Progress Paradise. Detailed PW

(02:07:06):
tors VIP subscription information on a list of all the
VIP benefits is available at PW Torch vip info dot com.
And yes, all VIP podcasts are compatible with popular podcast
apps on iPhone and Android devices, or you can stream
them directly from our ad free VIP mobile site. See
you in the Paradise.

Speaker 1 (02:07:27):
One way that you can help us sustain our schedule
of putting out podcasts throughout the week is by giving
us a five star rating on Apple Podcasts. Just go
to Apple Podcasts and look for our Weight Keller Prosing
podcast and Weightkeller Prossing post show and give us a
five star rating. We hope you think we've earned that
score with our fast turnaround times and our quantity and
quality of wrestling analysis throughout the week. So take a

(02:07:49):
moment out for us and do us favor and give
us a five star rating at Apple Podcasts that helps
us on search returns and helps us grow, And if
you want, you can add a few comments about what
you like about the programs comments section. Thank you so much.

Speaker 10 (02:08:05):
In twenty twelve, NXT transitioned into the developmental system and
ultimately the brand you see today.

Speaker 3 (02:08:11):
On the Torch.

Speaker 10 (02:08:12):
VIP podcast NXT Eight Years Back, we'll be taking a
weekly look at this page in NXT's early history.

Speaker 11 (02:08:20):
Join Kelly Wells and me Tom Stout from PWT Talks
NXT every Saturday as we go eight years back to
the day to track NXT's rising talents and why they
did or didn't work out Exclusively for PW Torch VIP members.

Speaker 1 (02:08:34):
A PW Torch VIP membership doesn't just give you add
free access to these shows and a ton of other
VIP exclusive podcasts throughout the week, but you also gain
access to our unmatched vast library of wrestling history, our
contemporaneous week to week coverage through our progressing Torch weekly
newsletters dating back to the late nineteen eighties, along with
streaming and download access to hundreds of retro radio shows
from the nineteen nineties, including some of my interviews with

(02:08:56):
wrestling's top newsmakers in the nineties, and also our podcast
library dating back to the year two thousand and three.
There's no larger, longer spanning pro wrestling podcast library than
that that comes with a pw Torch VIP membership. Now'
approaching twenty years of podcasting, Go VIP and dive into
our post pay per view roundtables are covered with some
of your favorite eras of wrestling, top name long form interviews,

(02:09:20):
and special format podcasts that we've done throughout the years.
Pw torch dot com slash go VIP. We have a
streamline sign up for me and you can pay it
with PayPal or directly with your credit card or debit card.
In one or two minutes from right now, you can
be a VIP member and diving into our library. Pw
torch dot com slash Go vip

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