September 11, 2025 • 38 mins
Host Dale Cooper and Harvey or Tom from the Peyton Law Firm discuss legal issues from listeners and matters affecting local politics.
More info: www.PeytonLawFirm.com
(304) 755-5556
2801 1st Ave, Nitro, WV 25143
The Peyton Law Firm was founded more than 30 years ago by Harvey Peyton, who was joined by his son, Tom Peyton. For more than 50 years, the Peyton team has successfully represented clients in courtrooms throughout WV and southeastern Ohio. The firm is known for its active community involvement and straightforward advice.
More info: www.PeytonLawFirm.com
(304) 755-5556
2801 1st Ave, Nitro, WV 25143
The Peyton Law Firm was founded more than 30 years ago by Harvey Peyton, who was joined by his son, Tom Peyton. For more than 50 years, the Peyton team has successfully represented clients in courtrooms throughout WV and southeastern Ohio. The firm is known for its active community involvement and straightforward advice.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
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the realtor makes real estate dreams a reality, whether it's
residential or commercial. We've got Charleston to Huntington covered. Your
key to exceptional real estate experience is start here Meeks
Realty Group. Contact us at Meeks dot us.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
The views and opinions expressed on this program do not
necessarily reflect the views and opinions of five eight wchs
it's employees or WVRC media.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
Of courts, Oh Creator differ equal.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Were nass come here in a cape ray can rocks
cops alone.
Speaker 4 (00:47):
Well, you can put the law on your side. This morning.
It's time to talk to the Payton Law Firm. Tom
Payton is in studio with us this morning, and you
can give us a call. Three zero four three four
five fifty eight fifty eight is a number. Three zero
four three four five fifty eight fifty eight. You can
tach threes are A four nine three five five zers
are eight Payton Law Firm dot Com. Tom, Good morning,
How you doing this morning?
Speaker 5 (01:04):
I'm doing okay. How you doing? Dale Man?
Speaker 4 (01:06):
I have no complaints. I was just talking to Dave
Weekly yesterday and looking back a week and looking forward
a week as much as I can. As far as
the weather goes, this is one of the best two
week stretches of weather that I can remember, basically ever.
I mean we're talking like right around like the seventy nine,
eighty degree not a lot of rain, nice mild evenings.
I mean, it's been a it's such, it's pretty nice.
(01:27):
It's pretty nice.
Speaker 6 (01:29):
You don't have to worry about rain if you got
an activity outside. I'm gonna probably do some mountain biking
myself up on the Meeks Trails on the evening and
no worries about thunderstorms and being rained out. And just
when you do outdoor strenuous activities, you do notice just
going down from eighty five degrees to seventy five and
the lower humidity exercises a lot easier and a lot
(01:51):
more fun.
Speaker 4 (01:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (01:53):
Great time of year. Yeah, except for football season isn't
going the way I thought.
Speaker 5 (01:57):
I don't know.
Speaker 6 (01:57):
I would like to invert my prediction on the mounts
if I could. I was a little too optimistic with
my nine and three and maybe looking more like a
three to nine.
Speaker 5 (02:05):
But I don't know, we'll see.
Speaker 6 (02:07):
I was at the Ohio game last week, and it
was just one of those weird games you just I
don't know for sure, but it had to be at
least sixty percent Mountaineer fans there, probably, but it's a
really small stadium. They only hold twenty four thousand, but
they had some standing room only. I think they get
up to twenty six plus. And that was the largest
(02:28):
crowd ever to watch a game at Peedon Stadium. It
overwhelmed the facilities a little bit, and they certainly could
use an upgrade there. Yeah, sure at Peedon Stadium. But
just one of those weird games where you know, just
kind of waiting for the Mountaineers to get a break
and they never did and the ball bounced the right way.
But Ohio, give them credit because they mean they looked
(02:49):
looked good. They were. We didn't look overwhelmingly stronger or
faster than them, which you think the Mountaineers would be.
And of course they caught us at a you know,
a time when we got the coach turned over and
all new players, so they got us at the right
time to be playing down there. And you know, of
course I went to think all but one of the
(03:11):
games when Marshall and w actually played in football, and
it was other than ninety seven when Randy Moss was
there in Pittington and they traveled to Morgantown. That was
a great game. Remember the Mountaineers were up twenty eight three,
Marshall came back to the lead. That was a heck
of a game. Then we had some good games in
the series in the two thousands, but it just happened
to hit. I mean any game that was good during
(03:32):
that series. What just happened. Marshall got lucky because they
that was some of their underperforming years and it just
happened to hit on W's really good years, Genie Smith
and those whole cast of characters. So it just didn't
I wish they would play again, Chris. It makes you
(03:52):
beg the question. If it's two and one and W's
won to Ohio, why can't they come to Huntington and
do it too, and the.
Speaker 5 (04:00):
Three and one like we did before.
Speaker 4 (04:01):
There's I don't understand. There's a lot of stuffeople try
to explain it to me before. I don't real understand everything.
Speaker 6 (04:06):
Yeah, it may break down into money or something, but uh,
but we'll see what happens this weekend. I'm I'm heading
the Baton Rouge to watch the l s U Tagers
take on, uh, the Florida Gators, and we'll see.
Speaker 4 (04:20):
Florida might be right for a for a knockoff week.
Speaker 5 (04:24):
So to South Florida, I got upset. Unfortunately.
Speaker 6 (04:26):
I was hoping they would still be undefeated coming in.
But but I'll be watching the Mountaineers from Baton Rouge
and rotting them on. And you know, I don't you
never know.
Speaker 5 (04:33):
It's pit game.
Speaker 6 (04:34):
You just kind of throw everything out the window here.
I'm not I don't even know what the spread is.
I didn't check. I'm sure the Mountaineers I think, yeah,
But you know it's gonna be a Rockus crowd. I
mean I was able to unload my tickets and blue
lot pass pretty easily. And uh, I'm sure it's it's
label to sell out. I'm sure it will be packed.
So I don't know. I might still hang in there
and predict a Mountaineer win for that when anything, anything
(04:56):
can happen in that game. I think going the rest
of the seas and I think we're going to have
we get into the Big twelve, We're gonna have some real.
Speaker 4 (05:03):
The question is going to be you you would assume
that a team with with the new coach, new coaching staff,
and so many new players, they'll get progressively better as
the season. The end product should be much better than
the than the start products. So the question is going
to be as it starts to cross over, how many
games can they win before they before they get efficient.
Because you start off the season with Kansas, Utah, b
y U, and U c F and then TCU. I mean,
(05:24):
I'm not sure where B y U and U c
F is going to be, but Utah is pretty good.
Kansas has some players that's that's trouble, and TCUs look
pretty good. Yeah, they're not real easy start to the season.
None of them are walkovers.
Speaker 6 (05:33):
And in the Big Twelve, though, I'll be looking for
a win because it's going to be a I think
every is fairly comparable in the league.
Speaker 5 (05:40):
So we'll see how it progresses.
Speaker 6 (05:43):
You know, Rich Rogg's gonna be there for the long haul,
I think, and hopefully he can he can turn it
around and give him a year or two to get
his style players in there, and we'll we'll see how
it goes. But lots of things going on in the
national level today, and of course we have, but it's
just a murder assassination. Yesterday. If Charlie Kirk I didn't
(06:05):
know who he was, I think I've seen him around
somewhere on the news or something, and it's just obviously
extremely sad when somebody just gets I an innocent person
getting killed like that.
Speaker 5 (06:16):
I really hope.
Speaker 6 (06:17):
I guess I had two different suspects in custody yesterday,
neither of which I mean, I guess they obviously.
Speaker 4 (06:24):
Were not involved, because they were really first, I was
like a local homeless guy, based.
Speaker 5 (06:28):
Fairly short interrogations and cut him loose. And you know, a.
Speaker 6 (06:32):
Lot of the politicians jump right on it, and which
I think is kind of important to, you know, spend
it in a way to politicize that we don't know
anything about the motive of the shooter.
Speaker 4 (06:47):
I don't.
Speaker 6 (06:49):
Know enough about firearms and marksmanship to determine whether that distance,
that type of one shot lethal shot from that distance
if you have to be particularly skilled, or if it
wasn't that far away and just kind of your average
skilled hunter could make that shot. So it'll be really
(07:12):
you know, I really hope they of course find the
person and punish them. But I also really hope they
find them and can capture them alive so we can
maybe get true information about the motive, because this is
just speculation at this point. I mean we're assuming it's
political because he was a kind of a political pundits.
I mean they've been comparing him to Rush Limball or
(07:33):
something like that, which Russia Limball is an entertainer. But
I really hope they find the murderer alive and so
we can get some information and figure out what really
happened here, because there's a lot of dynamics in this
day and age, and really it's just rank speculation to
say what the motive was. But sort of awful situation.
(07:56):
We had another I think a school shooting in Colorado
today and it's just not good Somber day and is
not eleven as well.
Speaker 5 (08:05):
Just oh hum.
Speaker 6 (08:07):
But we've had some interesting I guess here locally. Uh,
not to keep bringing everybody down, but we had the
uh it was actually we had the Cayden Martin was
his name, the young man that was killed at the
vape shop innocent clerk was maybe last year, and it
(08:28):
was two teenagers that were involved, and it appeared mister
Martin was complicit in their request. It was a robbery
attempt to get vapes or some kind of marijuana paraphernalia
or something. And and even though he complied, one of
the boys shot him, killed him. Uh, the one who
(08:50):
pulled the trigger entered it was found guilty. I think
he ended up play agreement and he ended up. But
the other person, the other boy that was involved, I
don't think he went into the vape shop, but he
was standing out front, and I think they had a
surveillance video of him maybe pulling open the door and
peeking in with some kind of communication. He did not interruptlate.
(09:11):
So they had to trial last week and the jury
came back this week. And even though he didn't there
wasn't evidence he had a gun, there wasn't evidence that
he actually did the shooting. He was still found guilty
of first degree murder. So how can that happen when
(09:31):
he didn't actually he did not kill anyone. So there's
a couple kind of legal principles there that apply which
gave this defendant some defense. Obviously it didn't didn't work
or resonate with the jurors, but first principles fell any murder,
so and I think it's probably the law in all states.
(09:54):
It's a state law. It could be different in other states,
but certainly in West Virginia. If a a felony is
being committed and during the commission of that crime, someone dies,
the perpetrators of that crime can be charged with first
degree murder. And the kind of weird example or outside
the box example is a person goes to commit a
(10:17):
robber let's and a robbery versus a burglary or larcenae,
which is stealing. Robbery involves a threat of violence or
physical harm to steal something from another person. So go
in and say, somebody has a knife and goes into
a local convenience store or give me all your lottery
(10:39):
tickets and cigarettes or something. And I've seen that, just
ridiculous stuff. And the clerk goes down to get the
cigarettes and they hey, they pull out a gun and
the guy with a knife threatens him again, and so
they shoot at the robber with the knife.
Speaker 5 (10:57):
Well they don't that person.
Speaker 6 (11:00):
Let's say it was even supposed to be a warning
shot to run them off. Well, there's a customer in
the back of the home. Customer gets shot, hit in
the head, killed. That person with a knife can then
be charged with first degree murder because during the commission
of the crime, someone was killed as a result, even
though that person never even attempted to kill another person.
(11:27):
And so you have that principle at play here, and
you say, well, he wasn't even in the store. But
then in West Virginia, you can also be convicted as
if you were the actual perpetrator if you're what's called
a principle in the second degree, meaning if you have
active involvement in the execution of the crime a lookout
(11:52):
for example, and there's some evidence that you had intent
along with the primary perpetrator to commit this felony, then
you can be convicted of the felony and then felony murders.
So the prosecutor was able to successfully kind of connect
those dots. It's a little complicated law, but the jury
would have been instructed on all of that. And then
(12:13):
they ended up finding this young man guilty. And there
was evidence that it just callous and did steal some very.
Speaker 5 (12:23):
Low value items.
Speaker 6 (12:25):
There was some evidence that they even got like some
kind of ice cream bars or something. And then of
course after and it was some other evidence entered about
other bad acts that happened. You know, they apparently these two,
according to the evidence, had participated in some other I
think it was attempted carjacking or something using the gun
(12:45):
and something else. So they'd been on a little crime spree.
But so that's you know, that person is off the
streets at least. I think when they're a juvenile moved
to adult status, they will have an opportunity for per
sometime in the long time, in the future, quite a
number of years. But that was the local news this week.
Speaker 5 (13:06):
And then.
Speaker 6 (13:09):
Some interesting US Supreme Court rulings, and I find this
one be interesting to see what the listeners think about it.
But you know, in these ice raids or stops, and
this one arose out of California and the Los Angeles area,
a trial court federal judge had ruled that you can't
(13:34):
detain people in America for the purpose of investigating their
immigration status if that stop is based solely on various
factors race, maybe language, where they work. And so the
(14:02):
judge ordered, you know, you're prohibited going forward from using
these what would without data and background information would be
just innocuous things like well, you work at a at
a farm, or you work at a particular type of
factory or car wash was an examples.
Speaker 5 (14:23):
And you.
Speaker 6 (14:26):
Are Hispanic and you don't speak English, so therefore we
can stop you and basically interrogate you or detain you
for a period of time to determine whether you are
here legally or not. And the trial court said no, preliminarily,
until we decide this case, you can't stop folks based
(14:48):
on those factors alone. And then that one shot up
to the US Supreme Court and then was ruled on
I think late last week, and Justice Kavanaugh wrote, wrote
the onion, it's fairly short. It's four or five pages.
I didn't there's a dissenting opinion. That's rather lengthy. But
(15:12):
Justice Kavanaugh rule overturned dipluminary injunction and said no, no,
a couple of reasons you can't. First, he found that, well,
I'm not sure this person even has standing to bring
this case because this has already happened in the past,
and there's no real prospect that this is going to
happen again to this person in the future, and so
(15:33):
there's not any current controversy going on, which I don't
know that I agree with that that reasoning.
Speaker 4 (15:41):
But then he went on.
Speaker 6 (15:42):
And so the standard is under the immigration Statute is
if you have if the government has reasonable suspicion to
believe that a person is not here legally in the country,
then they can make a stop to investigate whether that
person is here legally or not. And essentially what Justice
Kavanaugh did was re cited statistics. His his data indicated
(16:13):
that in the Los Angeles area there might be as
much as ten percent of the population that's very illegally
and then he went on to say, well, you know
a lot of these folks work in industries that don't
necessarily require the proper paperwork, like if you go, I
don't know if we see it. I think it's mandated
and we don't see it. Maybe with every employer mustream,
(16:34):
but you fell on an I nine as an prospect
of employee, and that's your citizenship declaration when you get
a job. And he was saying these particular industries, they're
significant data indicating that folks that are here unlawfully in
the country get these jobs because they don't generally require paperwork.
(16:57):
They're liberal in their paperwork, and so we see a
lot of folks that are here legally in those particular industries.
Many of them are from South America, south of the border,
so you know, statistically it's more likely that somebody who
doesn't speak English well or is a particular color of
(17:20):
their skin, it makes it more likely that they could
be legal immigrants. And what he said was that you
have to use the totality of the circumstances. He ruled
that you can't use race alone, but you can use
all of the factors that the district court said you
couldn't use, as long as that those factors are part
(17:44):
of the totality of the circumstances, which I found interesting
that he relied on statistics and other information, but at
the same time, we have a case that says you
can't really rely upon that when you're doing analysis of
whether somebody qualifies to be admitted to a college or university.
Speaker 5 (18:07):
That was the ruling there.
Speaker 6 (18:08):
Kind of interesting, it's interesting, yeah, I mean, it's it's
kind of a it's not apples to apples necessarily, but
you know, we'll we'll see how that plays out.
Speaker 5 (18:18):
And his other reasoning was, well, this is a short stop.
Speaker 6 (18:21):
It's just it's a very it's not an arrest, it's
a it's a it's a reasonable suspicion stop. So it's brief,
it's just long enough to determine, you know, if that
person can.
Speaker 5 (18:33):
Yeah, that's what.
Speaker 6 (18:34):
I don't know how you prove on the spot that
you're a here lawfully. I guess if you have your
papers on you all the time then that would be
one way to do it. And and of course, uh,
we've seen a lot of arrests that are ultimately of
folks who are here legally or allowed to be in the
(18:54):
country after the after the stop, So we'll see how
that plays out. It's just, you know, it's an interesting dynamic.
I mean, what he said kind of makes sense. At
the same time, as a general matter, under the law,
you can't racially profile and use other otherwise lawful activities
(19:18):
as a reason for the government to detain somebody. And
you know, if I was Hispanic and a citizen, and
I lived in Los Angeles and it's happened to work
in one of these jobs, I would disagree with the ruling.
I mean, knowing that every day I go to work,
(19:38):
I could be detained. And if I get an ICE
agent who doesn't believe me when I tell him I'm
a citizen, I could then be detained even further and
go through some bogged down process where we don't have
enough judges and government officials to make a neutral determination
whether you're here legally or not. I mean that's concerning,
that would be concerning to me. It's not gonna affect
(19:59):
me personally here, but we'll see. But he Coavin Hall
pretty well said, you know, that's the merits of the case,
and I would rule that way when it gets Actually
this was only about a preliminary injunction, but ultimately the
the final conclusion will end up most likely at the u. S.
Supreme Court, and he pretty much as long as these
(20:21):
same justices are there, that's going to be the ruling.
Speaker 5 (20:24):
So that.
Speaker 6 (20:26):
Vice officers can now use race language where a person
works as factors to detain somebody. That's a little bit
different than what we've seen in the past. There's totality
of the circumstances type standard. That's language that's used in
a lot of cases and reasonable suspicion is in the
(20:50):
Statute on that applies to immigration and status citizenship status.
But it's all so language. It's used a lot in
the law. And for example, if you are getting if
an officer wants to pull over your vehicle, they have
to have some reasonable, articulable suspicion that they've seen driving
(21:15):
left of center or a license plate that has a
bad registration. I can't just pull you over, you know,
and you take what just as Kavanaugh said, well, okay, so.
Speaker 4 (21:25):
If you.
Speaker 6 (21:28):
If you have a person who's African American driving and
a part of town that aren't a lot of African
Americans in and to beat up car and see some
kind of weird sticker on it, maybe asparage as the
police or something, is that Well, there's a lot of
I mean, an officer reasonable that compared with everything I
(21:51):
know about people that commit crimes. I'm going to stop
that vehicle now, and I think that's generally prohibited because
it's just not objective evidence of any crime. So we'll
see how Justice Kavanaugh is ruling and the ultimate ruling
gets parlayed into other aspects of our lives.
Speaker 4 (22:12):
Does that allow for We've talked before on this program
about how sometimes using vague language allows for an exercise
of bad faith arguments? Is that a little bit of
a concern, like the delusion of reasonable? You know what
means reasonable and how you interpret that into pulling someone
over and every reason. I'm not sure of the initial
circumstances behind it, but I have one anecdotal situation of
(22:33):
something not super close to me, but somebody I know
relatively well. When I lived in Michigan, she worked as
a border for me. A lady who was originally from
Chile who immigrated the United States, became a citizen, and
her life goal basically was bringing over her family and
also making them into citizens. Completely above board. She really
dislikes illegal immigrants, you know. She's a very patriotic American,
(22:55):
came over here and very strong end to that. However,
when all this first started happying, she somehow got caught
up in something. She got pulled over. The local news
did like a little story on it. She wasn't guilty
of anything. She never even got She was detained on
this side of the street for a little while, but
the news caught window early on. It got on the news,
her face got all over everything. She worked three jobs.
(23:16):
One is a porter for the company I used to
work for, One is a school lady lunch lady, and
one is a house cleaner where she had her own
business where she went around cleaning houses. She lost almost
all of her business from house cleaning because people thought
that they were employing an illegal immigrant at that point.
Speaker 6 (23:30):
So yeah, a lot of it's the politicalization of it,
because when you have high ranking government officials holding guns
with photo shoots in front of everybody that's been detained,
and then your pictures in the news, and it's problematic.
Now back to your question about using broad terms like
a reasonable suspicion, I don't have any problem with that.
You have to do that because you can't. I mean,
(23:51):
you have to have broad terms because there's so many
different factual scenarios that it has to be applied to,
and you can certainly have differing opinions even by different
I mean, different judges could rule different ways on the
same set of facts, and that's why you have appeals.
It's interesting because you still have the Fourth Amendment protection
(24:12):
for all persons who are in the United States, and
we've talked about.
Speaker 5 (24:16):
The exclusionary rule before.
Speaker 6 (24:18):
So if I am detained and arrested and it turns
out that I committed a crime, but the only reason
they were able to got enough evidence that I committed
the crime was because of what they got from that
stop of me. They stopped me and then they did
a search and I had some contraband in my shoes,
(24:40):
sold my shoe or something, or then I confessed to
something for regular, real criminal activity. Then the remedy is, well,
Tom was stopped illegally, so you shouldn't even have had
him stopped, or once he explained the situation, that should
(25:03):
have dispelled your suspicions objectively, so he was. Then it
was an unreasonable seizure of mister Peyton. So what happens
then on regular crimes is you evidence. It's called the
fruit of the poisonous tree doctrine, meaning everything gathered as
a result of that illegal stop, the contraband found and
(25:26):
that I had hidden in the sole of my shoe,
or the statements I made, is all thrown out of court.
And so oftentimes when that happens, it'll result in insufficient
evidence to convict, and whatever crime I committed was done
so case could be dismissed against me. And even though
I committed a crime, I'm free person. That's the law
(25:49):
of that case, and I can't be recharged by that
same government entity because there's not enough evidence. Now, when
you take that same scenario and say, well, how does
this exclusionary rule apply to somebody who is in the
country illegally. I mean, that's kind of like they're still
here illegally. Even if you say, all right, well they
(26:11):
were they were detained unlawfully against the United States Code
or the US Constitution, so we've got to let them go.
But they're still committing that continue. I mean, they're still
here in violation of the law. So it makes you
kind of wonder even if I think that's why the
district court judge made a very broad ruling saying you
(26:32):
can't use these factors in the future because there isn't
really I didn't see another remedy that would fix the
situation because once that person, let's say they used race
illegally as the only factor to stop somebody, and and
the and the person that's here illegally can prove that, okay,
(26:52):
well that that detention is dismissed, but you're still here illegally.
So I assume they could just be picked up again
based upon what information is now known.
Speaker 5 (27:06):
And so it's not like a.
Speaker 6 (27:09):
Criminal act in the example I gave, that's kind of
one and done. I mean, you you're still still committed
a crime, but you're not continuing to commit illegal activity.
Speaker 5 (27:19):
It's in the past. So you di exclusionary rule works.
Speaker 6 (27:22):
Doesn't really work for folks that are here illegally, and
so you know how that I've never seen it play
out in West Virginia and I've never been involved in
that as a lawyer, so I don't know how that
works for sure. But you know, to say, all right,
well you got to let this person go because you
use these illegal factors to.
Speaker 5 (27:40):
Pick them up.
Speaker 6 (27:41):
Well, then another ICE agent could just pick them up
the next day because they know.
Speaker 4 (27:45):
They're here, because then they have the actual information.
Speaker 6 (27:47):
Yeah, then we have I'm not using race now now
we know that they're here illegally because we ran their
information and confirmed that they don't have legal status in
the US.
Speaker 5 (27:56):
And so that's that's kind.
Speaker 6 (27:58):
Of a I think that's why, because you don't get
rulings on an unlawful certain Caesar just says, you know,
very broadly, you can't stop based on these particular factors
in the future like that that covers the entire country.
I mean, you have to kind of analyze every case individually.
(28:18):
But there isn't really a remedy for it for somebody
who's here illegally because they're still here illegally even after
it happens. And so that's I think that was the reasoning.
But we'll see how that one plays out. That was
an interesting ruling by Judge of Kavanaugh. Justice Kavanaugh, and
he bade, but he pretty much said I or we
(28:38):
the majority will rule this way if it ever gets
to us. So I don't know if it'll just be
resolved now once it gets back down because the district
court judge's got to abide by the US Supreme Court's ruling,
or if it'll get up to the US Supreme Court
again and then we'll have a longer opinion with probably
the same reasoning.
Speaker 4 (28:57):
Very interesting. If you have any questions about the law
anything that we're talking about today, or you want to
put the power paytent on your side, you and give
us a call this morning. Three es are A four
three four five fifty to fifty eight is our number.
Three zero four three four five fifty to fifteen. You
can text over questions if you'd like. Three zero four
nine three five five zero zero eight. We'll take a
break and be back right after this. You're listening to
ask the lawyer with the Payton Law Firm. Tom Payton
is here. More information online Paton Law Firm dot com
(29:18):
and Nitro West Virginia will take a break and be
Backwright after this. You're listening to a five adwc H's
voice to Charleston.
Speaker 7 (29:23):
According to Feeding America, over seven million seniors nationwide where
food insecure in twenty twenty two. West Virginia is no different. Hi,
I'm Jason, President and CEO of Union Mission Ministries. For
one hundred and thirteen years, Union Mission has focused on
helping people in need. Right now, our senior citizens need
our help. That is why Union Mission is partnering with
(29:44):
local senior living facilities to get food delivered directly to
those in need. Will you help us reach more seniors?
Visit Union Mission dot com to learn more.
Speaker 8 (29:53):
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Quilt's shop in Barbersville. There this week's fifty to fifty Friday.
They're your local quilting destination, offering beautiful fabrics, patterns, notions
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Speaker 4 (30:35):
It's about eight minutes until the top of the hour.
You're more than welcome to give us a call this morning.
Tom Payton is here from the Payton Law Firm or
information Online, Payton Lawfirm dot com, Payton Lawfirm dot com,
p E Y t O N, Payton Lawfirroom dot com
and Nitro West Virginia. Give us all this morning. Three
zero four three four five fifty fifty eight three four
five fifty to fifty. That version of Country Roads always
makes me makes me want to talk a little slower
and bring things in a little nicer. It's Tomsing's my
(30:56):
brother in law.
Speaker 5 (30:57):
Yeah, that's how he's excellent guitar player.
Speaker 4 (31:00):
That's good stuff.
Speaker 6 (31:00):
Yeah, we love that when that's our hold music at
the office. And yeah, I've been kind of a somber
morning here. But if you want to see a nice
office with well maintained building, with a nice lawn and
uh good furniture, nice artwork by our office Tornado one
(31:21):
First Avenue, night, Trev. And of course we talk about
what's on the news here this morning.
Speaker 5 (31:28):
But if you have a question you can. Oh, we
have a call.
Speaker 4 (31:33):
I think so. I think we have a phone call
that came in before we go off the air. You
got into auto que here a caller. What's your first name?
It's Mike, Hey, Michael. What's your watch for Tom this morning?
Speaker 9 (31:43):
Hey Coop, Hey Tom. I just wanted to thank Tom.
I had a question a couple of weeks ago about
a deed that had a incorrect name on it in
Kenall County Court, and I emailed Peyton Law firm and
probably within two hours, Tom had responded and helped me
out with that situation. And I just wanted to thank
you for your promp response.
Speaker 8 (32:03):
Tom.
Speaker 9 (32:04):
I appreciate it.
Speaker 6 (32:04):
Yeah, I appreciate that. Thanks for the call too, Thanks
for listening much. Yeah, if you have a question, like
Mike ken, I think I remember that when you know
now that Canaw County is online at the record room.
A lot of times when I get a message from
the staff, I can just spend a minute and look
(32:26):
at what he was referencing. You know, used to be
at way you go, bring your deed in, let me
see you because it's really hard to comment on deeds
and legal documents without reading them myself, and so now
we can see them and answer a lot of those
basic questions. So it's really great they've got got it online.
It helps helps us help people, and that's what we
like to do. And of course, as Mike reference, we
(32:46):
do basic real estate, a state planning, uh, social care, disability,
but are kind of.
Speaker 5 (32:51):
Bread and butter.
Speaker 6 (32:51):
And what we really like to do is civil litigation,
so like trying cases going before jury's and we've had
a lot of success at it over the years. So
if you've been in a autobill accident or you have
a dispute with your insurance company, again we're we've got
multiple cases pending now about problems with folks heal damage
claims from the April hailstorms. And got another call.
Speaker 4 (33:16):
Yeah, I think we have another call. I slide that
in there. What's your name? Caller? You're on with Tom?
Just a couple of minutes left.
Speaker 3 (33:22):
Okay, I'm sorry I waited. I was outside working. I
have a real quick question. Sure, all these commercials about
deeds stealing our house, stealing pay us, and we'll make
sure no one steals your house because all this information,
as you just said, is online. I'll take your answer
(33:42):
off the air. Thank you.
Speaker 4 (33:43):
Make sure. Yeah.
Speaker 6 (33:44):
And I've had people ask me that I haven't seen
that in West Virginia. I mean I've seen fraudulent deeds before.
We had one at a state trooper come to my
office probably ten years ago and show us a deed.
I thought, well, let me look in a file. Well,
somebody had taken a deed from the courthouse and scanned
(34:08):
it somehow and superimposed a notary that worked at our
office the notary stamp. And then they won't record copies
at the record room of deeds. It has to be
an original signature. But they were able to you know,
your notary stamp these days is not in West Virginia,
is just ink. There's no raised seal on it. And
so they were able to superimpose that and basically record
(34:29):
a fraudulent deed transferring property to them. I haven't seen
that happened in West Virginia. I'll tell you there's a
new law and any lawyers out there doing real estate
may already know, but keep in mind if they've so.
Normally only the grand tour signs the deed. The person
who is conveying the property, like whoever's receiving it, doesn't
(34:50):
have to sign it. Similar to a car title. I
don't think the purchaser signs the back of a car title,
only the seller, but they've The legislature passed a law,
and I didn't realize so after it was passed. I'm
not one hundred percent sure on the reasoning. But now
if there's a deed that involves no consideration and it's
not a grandparent to parents or grandparent of grandchild parent
(35:13):
a child, then all parties have to sign off on
the deed, not just one side of the equation.
Speaker 5 (35:19):
And I think it was.
Speaker 6 (35:19):
To try and help with some unscrupulous activity of transferring
property to this person. Then maybe another person without you
wouldn't even know it came in your name and then
goes out of your name. But I haven't seen that
in West Virginia. I don't know about these companies that
market that product to monitor. I believe in Canall County
(35:43):
and most of the counties. If you really have concern
about that. I haven't seen it, so I don't have
concern about it myself. I haven't seen it here in
West Virginia. There is a way to track like you,
I could enter Tom Payton and say, you know, alert
me if anything happens under my name, and it will
(36:04):
track that subject matter and I can get an email
alert because I have an account if something's recorded that
matches my name in the record room, and of course,
anytime a deed's recorded, the clerk looks at the deed
and all parties to the deed, whether they're the sellers,
the buyers, if they're named in that deed, you get
(36:24):
a life of state. It's all indexed by the clerk.
So that's how you are able to look deeds up.
You got to type the name, and that's why you
have mistakes sometimes because everybody's human. You get a name
that's misspelled. You might not find the document if you
go and look for it. But I haven't seen that.
I've had clients ask about that. I haven't seen that
(36:45):
as a problem in West Virginia. I think it's maybe
some other states have different methods of recording. You can
you can do electronic recording in West Virginia. But you
have to use authorized third parties that have validation requirements,
meaning you don't have to bring the original to the
(37:05):
clerk to record. I could send it to this third
party who will then electronically file it through the record room.
Speaker 5 (37:12):
But they have.
Speaker 6 (37:15):
Lots of safeguards to make sure that that's not done fraudulently.
And of course it can all be it can all
be straightened out if it was a fraudulent transfer, and
and and but I haven't seen scammers doing that on
the on the regular I haven't had any call other
than the call we like we just got on the
(37:36):
radio where it's actually happened to someone where there's some
somebody has gone in and somehow gotten titled to their property.
And then you have other issues I know, a lot
out of time. None you have some time, and you
have some issues in other states where you have like
squatters' rights and and really difficult to get trespassers out
(37:57):
of property once they're in there. It's not the same
in West Virginia. So I think that's it's a concern,
but I haven't seen it yet, So I don't think
listeners really need to take any action out of out
of listening to those ads on the radio or television
about hi RS to protect you from having your property stolen.
Speaker 4 (38:16):
Yeah, there's probably other ways that you can monitor that
or check it yourself. You don't have to like pay
somebody to do it. On a constant pasis.
Speaker 6 (38:22):
That's right, and it's just not something I do so
much of that work. I haven't seen one instance of
it happening, and so if I do, I'll be certainly
do a PSA here on the radio.
Speaker 5 (38:32):
And seven one.
Speaker 4 (38:34):
Seven five five fifty five eighty six seven five five
fifty five fifty six. Payton Law Firm dot com. Payton
Lawfirm dot com. Tom see you next week.
Speaker 2 (38:40):
Beat Pitt w c hs A W two four three
d r f M Charles stand W two eight three
HU Coross Lanes a WVRC media station.
Speaker 4 (38:53):
We're proud to live here too,
Unlock your dream property with Meeks Realty Group, where Rich
the realtor makes real estate dreams a reality, whether it's
residential or commercial. We've got Charleston to Huntington covered. Your
key to exceptional real estate experience is start here Meeks
Realty Group. Contact us at Meeks dot us.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
The views and opinions expressed on this program do not
necessarily reflect the views and opinions of five eight wchs
it's employees or WVRC media.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
Of courts, Oh Creator differ equal.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Were nass come here in a cape ray can rocks
cops alone.
Speaker 4 (00:47):
Well, you can put the law on your side. This morning.
It's time to talk to the Payton Law Firm. Tom
Payton is in studio with us this morning, and you
can give us a call. Three zero four three four
five fifty eight fifty eight is a number. Three zero
four three four five fifty eight fifty eight. You can
tach threes are A four nine three five five zers
are eight Payton Law Firm dot Com. Tom, Good morning,
How you doing this morning?
Speaker 5 (01:04):
I'm doing okay. How you doing? Dale Man?
Speaker 4 (01:06):
I have no complaints. I was just talking to Dave
Weekly yesterday and looking back a week and looking forward
a week as much as I can. As far as
the weather goes, this is one of the best two
week stretches of weather that I can remember, basically ever.
I mean we're talking like right around like the seventy nine,
eighty degree not a lot of rain, nice mild evenings.
I mean, it's been a it's such, it's pretty nice.
(01:27):
It's pretty nice.
Speaker 6 (01:29):
You don't have to worry about rain if you got
an activity outside. I'm gonna probably do some mountain biking
myself up on the Meeks Trails on the evening and
no worries about thunderstorms and being rained out. And just
when you do outdoor strenuous activities, you do notice just
going down from eighty five degrees to seventy five and
the lower humidity exercises a lot easier and a lot
(01:51):
more fun.
Speaker 4 (01:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (01:53):
Great time of year. Yeah, except for football season isn't
going the way I thought.
Speaker 5 (01:57):
I don't know.
Speaker 6 (01:57):
I would like to invert my prediction on the mounts
if I could. I was a little too optimistic with
my nine and three and maybe looking more like a
three to nine.
Speaker 5 (02:05):
But I don't know, we'll see.
Speaker 6 (02:07):
I was at the Ohio game last week, and it
was just one of those weird games you just I
don't know for sure, but it had to be at
least sixty percent Mountaineer fans there, probably, but it's a
really small stadium. They only hold twenty four thousand, but
they had some standing room only. I think they get
up to twenty six plus. And that was the largest
(02:28):
crowd ever to watch a game at Peedon Stadium. It
overwhelmed the facilities a little bit, and they certainly could
use an upgrade there. Yeah, sure at Peedon Stadium. But
just one of those weird games where you know, just
kind of waiting for the Mountaineers to get a break
and they never did and the ball bounced the right way.
But Ohio, give them credit because they mean they looked
(02:49):
looked good. They were. We didn't look overwhelmingly stronger or
faster than them, which you think the Mountaineers would be.
And of course they caught us at a you know,
a time when we got the coach turned over and
all new players, so they got us at the right
time to be playing down there. And you know, of
course I went to think all but one of the
(03:11):
games when Marshall and w actually played in football, and
it was other than ninety seven when Randy Moss was
there in Pittington and they traveled to Morgantown. That was
a great game. Remember the Mountaineers were up twenty eight three,
Marshall came back to the lead. That was a heck
of a game. Then we had some good games in
the series in the two thousands, but it just happened
to hit. I mean any game that was good during
(03:32):
that series. What just happened. Marshall got lucky because they
that was some of their underperforming years and it just
happened to hit on W's really good years, Genie Smith
and those whole cast of characters. So it just didn't
I wish they would play again, Chris. It makes you
(03:52):
beg the question. If it's two and one and W's
won to Ohio, why can't they come to Huntington and
do it too, and the.
Speaker 5 (04:00):
Three and one like we did before.
Speaker 4 (04:01):
There's I don't understand. There's a lot of stuffeople try
to explain it to me before. I don't real understand everything.
Speaker 6 (04:06):
Yeah, it may break down into money or something, but uh,
but we'll see what happens this weekend. I'm I'm heading
the Baton Rouge to watch the l s U Tagers
take on, uh, the Florida Gators, and we'll see.
Speaker 4 (04:20):
Florida might be right for a for a knockoff week.
Speaker 5 (04:24):
So to South Florida, I got upset. Unfortunately.
Speaker 6 (04:26):
I was hoping they would still be undefeated coming in.
But but I'll be watching the Mountaineers from Baton Rouge
and rotting them on. And you know, I don't you
never know.
Speaker 5 (04:33):
It's pit game.
Speaker 6 (04:34):
You just kind of throw everything out the window here.
I'm not I don't even know what the spread is.
I didn't check. I'm sure the Mountaineers I think, yeah,
But you know it's gonna be a Rockus crowd. I
mean I was able to unload my tickets and blue
lot pass pretty easily. And uh, I'm sure it's it's
label to sell out. I'm sure it will be packed.
So I don't know. I might still hang in there
and predict a Mountaineer win for that when anything, anything
(04:56):
can happen in that game. I think going the rest
of the seas and I think we're going to have
we get into the Big twelve, We're gonna have some real.
Speaker 4 (05:03):
The question is going to be you you would assume
that a team with with the new coach, new coaching staff,
and so many new players, they'll get progressively better as
the season. The end product should be much better than
the than the start products. So the question is going
to be as it starts to cross over, how many
games can they win before they before they get efficient.
Because you start off the season with Kansas, Utah, b
y U, and U c F and then TCU. I mean,
(05:24):
I'm not sure where B y U and U c
F is going to be, but Utah is pretty good.
Kansas has some players that's that's trouble, and TCUs look
pretty good. Yeah, they're not real easy start to the season.
None of them are walkovers.
Speaker 6 (05:33):
And in the Big Twelve, though, I'll be looking for
a win because it's going to be a I think
every is fairly comparable in the league.
Speaker 5 (05:40):
So we'll see how it progresses.
Speaker 6 (05:43):
You know, Rich Rogg's gonna be there for the long haul,
I think, and hopefully he can he can turn it
around and give him a year or two to get
his style players in there, and we'll we'll see how
it goes. But lots of things going on in the
national level today, and of course we have, but it's
just a murder assassination. Yesterday. If Charlie Kirk I didn't
(06:05):
know who he was, I think I've seen him around
somewhere on the news or something, and it's just obviously
extremely sad when somebody just gets I an innocent person
getting killed like that.
Speaker 5 (06:16):
I really hope.
Speaker 6 (06:17):
I guess I had two different suspects in custody yesterday,
neither of which I mean, I guess they obviously.
Speaker 4 (06:24):
Were not involved, because they were really first, I was
like a local homeless guy, based.
Speaker 5 (06:28):
Fairly short interrogations and cut him loose. And you know, a.
Speaker 6 (06:32):
Lot of the politicians jump right on it, and which
I think is kind of important to, you know, spend
it in a way to politicize that we don't know
anything about the motive of the shooter.
Speaker 4 (06:47):
I don't.
Speaker 6 (06:49):
Know enough about firearms and marksmanship to determine whether that distance,
that type of one shot lethal shot from that distance
if you have to be particularly skilled, or if it
wasn't that far away and just kind of your average
skilled hunter could make that shot. So it'll be really
(07:12):
you know, I really hope they of course find the
person and punish them. But I also really hope they
find them and can capture them alive so we can
maybe get true information about the motive, because this is
just speculation at this point. I mean we're assuming it's
political because he was a kind of a political pundits.
I mean they've been comparing him to Rush Limball or
(07:33):
something like that, which Russia Limball is an entertainer. But
I really hope they find the murderer alive and so
we can get some information and figure out what really
happened here, because there's a lot of dynamics in this
day and age, and really it's just rank speculation to
say what the motive was. But sort of awful situation.
(07:56):
We had another I think a school shooting in Colorado
today and it's just not good Somber day and is
not eleven as well.
Speaker 5 (08:05):
Just oh hum.
Speaker 6 (08:07):
But we've had some interesting I guess here locally. Uh,
not to keep bringing everybody down, but we had the
uh it was actually we had the Cayden Martin was
his name, the young man that was killed at the
vape shop innocent clerk was maybe last year, and it
(08:28):
was two teenagers that were involved, and it appeared mister
Martin was complicit in their request. It was a robbery
attempt to get vapes or some kind of marijuana paraphernalia
or something. And and even though he complied, one of
the boys shot him, killed him. Uh, the one who
(08:50):
pulled the trigger entered it was found guilty. I think
he ended up play agreement and he ended up. But
the other person, the other boy that was involved, I
don't think he went into the vape shop, but he
was standing out front, and I think they had a
surveillance video of him maybe pulling open the door and
peeking in with some kind of communication. He did not interruptlate.
(09:11):
So they had to trial last week and the jury
came back this week. And even though he didn't there
wasn't evidence he had a gun, there wasn't evidence that
he actually did the shooting. He was still found guilty
of first degree murder. So how can that happen when
(09:31):
he didn't actually he did not kill anyone. So there's
a couple kind of legal principles there that apply which
gave this defendant some defense. Obviously it didn't didn't work
or resonate with the jurors, but first principles fell any murder,
so and I think it's probably the law in all states.
(09:54):
It's a state law. It could be different in other states,
but certainly in West Virginia. If a a felony is
being committed and during the commission of that crime, someone dies,
the perpetrators of that crime can be charged with first
degree murder. And the kind of weird example or outside
the box example is a person goes to commit a
(10:17):
robber let's and a robbery versus a burglary or larcenae,
which is stealing. Robbery involves a threat of violence or
physical harm to steal something from another person. So go
in and say, somebody has a knife and goes into
a local convenience store or give me all your lottery
(10:39):
tickets and cigarettes or something. And I've seen that, just
ridiculous stuff. And the clerk goes down to get the
cigarettes and they hey, they pull out a gun and
the guy with a knife threatens him again, and so
they shoot at the robber with the knife.
Speaker 5 (10:57):
Well they don't that person.
Speaker 6 (11:00):
Let's say it was even supposed to be a warning
shot to run them off. Well, there's a customer in
the back of the home. Customer gets shot, hit in
the head, killed. That person with a knife can then
be charged with first degree murder because during the commission
of the crime, someone was killed as a result, even
though that person never even attempted to kill another person.
(11:27):
And so you have that principle at play here, and
you say, well, he wasn't even in the store. But
then in West Virginia, you can also be convicted as
if you were the actual perpetrator if you're what's called
a principle in the second degree, meaning if you have
active involvement in the execution of the crime a lookout
(11:52):
for example, and there's some evidence that you had intent
along with the primary perpetrator to commit this felony, then
you can be convicted of the felony and then felony murders.
So the prosecutor was able to successfully kind of connect
those dots. It's a little complicated law, but the jury
would have been instructed on all of that. And then
(12:13):
they ended up finding this young man guilty. And there
was evidence that it just callous and did steal some very.
Speaker 5 (12:23):
Low value items.
Speaker 6 (12:25):
There was some evidence that they even got like some
kind of ice cream bars or something. And then of
course after and it was some other evidence entered about
other bad acts that happened. You know, they apparently these two,
according to the evidence, had participated in some other I
think it was attempted carjacking or something using the gun
(12:45):
and something else. So they'd been on a little crime spree.
But so that's you know, that person is off the
streets at least. I think when they're a juvenile moved
to adult status, they will have an opportunity for per
sometime in the long time, in the future, quite a
number of years. But that was the local news this week.
Speaker 5 (13:06):
And then.
Speaker 6 (13:09):
Some interesting US Supreme Court rulings, and I find this
one be interesting to see what the listeners think about it.
But you know, in these ice raids or stops, and
this one arose out of California and the Los Angeles area,
a trial court federal judge had ruled that you can't
(13:34):
detain people in America for the purpose of investigating their
immigration status if that stop is based solely on various
factors race, maybe language, where they work. And so the
(14:02):
judge ordered, you know, you're prohibited going forward from using
these what would without data and background information would be
just innocuous things like well, you work at a at
a farm, or you work at a particular type of
factory or car wash was an examples.
Speaker 5 (14:23):
And you.
Speaker 6 (14:26):
Are Hispanic and you don't speak English, so therefore we
can stop you and basically interrogate you or detain you
for a period of time to determine whether you are
here legally or not. And the trial court said no, preliminarily,
until we decide this case, you can't stop folks based
(14:48):
on those factors alone. And then that one shot up
to the US Supreme Court and then was ruled on
I think late last week, and Justice Kavanaugh wrote, wrote
the onion, it's fairly short. It's four or five pages.
I didn't there's a dissenting opinion. That's rather lengthy. But
(15:12):
Justice Kavanaugh rule overturned dipluminary injunction and said no, no,
a couple of reasons you can't. First, he found that, well,
I'm not sure this person even has standing to bring
this case because this has already happened in the past,
and there's no real prospect that this is going to
happen again to this person in the future, and so
(15:33):
there's not any current controversy going on, which I don't
know that I agree with that that reasoning.
Speaker 4 (15:41):
But then he went on.
Speaker 6 (15:42):
And so the standard is under the immigration Statute is
if you have if the government has reasonable suspicion to
believe that a person is not here legally in the country,
then they can make a stop to investigate whether that
person is here legally or not. And essentially what Justice
Kavanaugh did was re cited statistics. His his data indicated
(16:13):
that in the Los Angeles area there might be as
much as ten percent of the population that's very illegally
and then he went on to say, well, you know
a lot of these folks work in industries that don't
necessarily require the proper paperwork, like if you go, I
don't know if we see it. I think it's mandated
and we don't see it. Maybe with every employer mustream,
(16:34):
but you fell on an I nine as an prospect
of employee, and that's your citizenship declaration when you get
a job. And he was saying these particular industries, they're
significant data indicating that folks that are here unlawfully in
the country get these jobs because they don't generally require paperwork.
(16:57):
They're liberal in their paperwork, and so we see a
lot of folks that are here legally in those particular industries.
Many of them are from South America, south of the border,
so you know, statistically it's more likely that somebody who
doesn't speak English well or is a particular color of
(17:20):
their skin, it makes it more likely that they could
be legal immigrants. And what he said was that you
have to use the totality of the circumstances. He ruled
that you can't use race alone, but you can use
all of the factors that the district court said you
couldn't use, as long as that those factors are part
(17:44):
of the totality of the circumstances, which I found interesting
that he relied on statistics and other information, but at
the same time, we have a case that says you
can't really rely upon that when you're doing analysis of
whether somebody qualifies to be admitted to a college or university.
Speaker 5 (18:07):
That was the ruling there.
Speaker 6 (18:08):
Kind of interesting, it's interesting, yeah, I mean, it's it's
kind of a it's not apples to apples necessarily, but
you know, we'll we'll see how that plays out.
Speaker 5 (18:18):
And his other reasoning was, well, this is a short stop.
Speaker 6 (18:21):
It's just it's a very it's not an arrest, it's
a it's a it's a reasonable suspicion stop. So it's brief,
it's just long enough to determine, you know, if that
person can.
Speaker 5 (18:33):
Yeah, that's what.
Speaker 6 (18:34):
I don't know how you prove on the spot that
you're a here lawfully. I guess if you have your
papers on you all the time then that would be
one way to do it. And and of course, uh,
we've seen a lot of arrests that are ultimately of
folks who are here legally or allowed to be in the
(18:54):
country after the after the stop, So we'll see how
that plays out. It's just, you know, it's an interesting dynamic.
I mean, what he said kind of makes sense. At
the same time, as a general matter, under the law,
you can't racially profile and use other otherwise lawful activities
(19:18):
as a reason for the government to detain somebody. And
you know, if I was Hispanic and a citizen, and
I lived in Los Angeles and it's happened to work
in one of these jobs, I would disagree with the ruling.
I mean, knowing that every day I go to work,
(19:38):
I could be detained. And if I get an ICE
agent who doesn't believe me when I tell him I'm
a citizen, I could then be detained even further and
go through some bogged down process where we don't have
enough judges and government officials to make a neutral determination
whether you're here legally or not. I mean that's concerning,
that would be concerning to me. It's not gonna affect
(19:59):
me personally here, but we'll see. But he Coavin Hall
pretty well said, you know, that's the merits of the case,
and I would rule that way when it gets Actually
this was only about a preliminary injunction, but ultimately the
the final conclusion will end up most likely at the u. S.
Supreme Court, and he pretty much as long as these
(20:21):
same justices are there, that's going to be the ruling.
Speaker 5 (20:24):
So that.
Speaker 6 (20:26):
Vice officers can now use race language where a person
works as factors to detain somebody. That's a little bit
different than what we've seen in the past. There's totality
of the circumstances type standard. That's language that's used in
a lot of cases and reasonable suspicion is in the
(20:50):
Statute on that applies to immigration and status citizenship status.
But it's all so language. It's used a lot in
the law. And for example, if you are getting if
an officer wants to pull over your vehicle, they have
to have some reasonable, articulable suspicion that they've seen driving
(21:15):
left of center or a license plate that has a
bad registration. I can't just pull you over, you know,
and you take what just as Kavanaugh said, well, okay, so.
Speaker 4 (21:25):
If you.
Speaker 6 (21:28):
If you have a person who's African American driving and
a part of town that aren't a lot of African
Americans in and to beat up car and see some
kind of weird sticker on it, maybe asparage as the
police or something, is that Well, there's a lot of
I mean, an officer reasonable that compared with everything I
(21:51):
know about people that commit crimes. I'm going to stop
that vehicle now, and I think that's generally prohibited because
it's just not objective evidence of any crime. So we'll
see how Justice Kavanaugh is ruling and the ultimate ruling
gets parlayed into other aspects of our lives.
Speaker 4 (22:12):
Does that allow for We've talked before on this program
about how sometimes using vague language allows for an exercise
of bad faith arguments? Is that a little bit of
a concern, like the delusion of reasonable? You know what
means reasonable and how you interpret that into pulling someone
over and every reason. I'm not sure of the initial
circumstances behind it, but I have one anecdotal situation of
(22:33):
something not super close to me, but somebody I know
relatively well. When I lived in Michigan, she worked as
a border for me. A lady who was originally from
Chile who immigrated the United States, became a citizen, and
her life goal basically was bringing over her family and
also making them into citizens. Completely above board. She really
dislikes illegal immigrants, you know. She's a very patriotic American,
(22:55):
came over here and very strong end to that. However,
when all this first started happying, she somehow got caught
up in something. She got pulled over. The local news
did like a little story on it. She wasn't guilty
of anything. She never even got She was detained on
this side of the street for a little while, but
the news caught window early on. It got on the news,
her face got all over everything. She worked three jobs.
(23:16):
One is a porter for the company I used to
work for, One is a school lady lunch lady, and
one is a house cleaner where she had her own
business where she went around cleaning houses. She lost almost
all of her business from house cleaning because people thought
that they were employing an illegal immigrant at that point.
Speaker 6 (23:30):
So yeah, a lot of it's the politicalization of it,
because when you have high ranking government officials holding guns
with photo shoots in front of everybody that's been detained,
and then your pictures in the news, and it's problematic.
Now back to your question about using broad terms like
a reasonable suspicion, I don't have any problem with that.
You have to do that because you can't. I mean,
(23:51):
you have to have broad terms because there's so many
different factual scenarios that it has to be applied to,
and you can certainly have differing opinions even by different
I mean, different judges could rule different ways on the
same set of facts, and that's why you have appeals.
It's interesting because you still have the Fourth Amendment protection
(24:12):
for all persons who are in the United States, and
we've talked about.
Speaker 5 (24:16):
The exclusionary rule before.
Speaker 6 (24:18):
So if I am detained and arrested and it turns
out that I committed a crime, but the only reason
they were able to got enough evidence that I committed
the crime was because of what they got from that
stop of me. They stopped me and then they did
a search and I had some contraband in my shoes,
(24:40):
sold my shoe or something, or then I confessed to
something for regular, real criminal activity. Then the remedy is, well,
Tom was stopped illegally, so you shouldn't even have had
him stopped, or once he explained the situation, that should
(25:03):
have dispelled your suspicions objectively, so he was. Then it
was an unreasonable seizure of mister Peyton. So what happens
then on regular crimes is you evidence. It's called the
fruit of the poisonous tree doctrine, meaning everything gathered as
a result of that illegal stop, the contraband found and
(25:26):
that I had hidden in the sole of my shoe,
or the statements I made, is all thrown out of court.
And so oftentimes when that happens, it'll result in insufficient
evidence to convict, and whatever crime I committed was done
so case could be dismissed against me. And even though
I committed a crime, I'm free person. That's the law
(25:49):
of that case, and I can't be recharged by that
same government entity because there's not enough evidence. Now, when
you take that same scenario and say, well, how does
this exclusionary rule apply to somebody who is in the
country illegally. I mean, that's kind of like they're still
here illegally. Even if you say, all right, well they
(26:11):
were they were detained unlawfully against the United States Code
or the US Constitution, so we've got to let them go.
But they're still committing that continue. I mean, they're still
here in violation of the law. So it makes you
kind of wonder even if I think that's why the
district court judge made a very broad ruling saying you
(26:32):
can't use these factors in the future because there isn't
really I didn't see another remedy that would fix the
situation because once that person, let's say they used race
illegally as the only factor to stop somebody, and and
the and the person that's here illegally can prove that, okay,
(26:52):
well that that detention is dismissed, but you're still here illegally.
So I assume they could just be picked up again
based upon what information is now known.
Speaker 5 (27:06):
And so it's not like a.
Speaker 6 (27:09):
Criminal act in the example I gave, that's kind of
one and done. I mean, you you're still still committed
a crime, but you're not continuing to commit illegal activity.
Speaker 5 (27:19):
It's in the past. So you di exclusionary rule works.
Speaker 6 (27:22):
Doesn't really work for folks that are here illegally, and
so you know how that I've never seen it play
out in West Virginia and I've never been involved in
that as a lawyer, so I don't know how that
works for sure. But you know, to say, all right,
well you got to let this person go because you
use these illegal factors to.
Speaker 5 (27:40):
Pick them up.
Speaker 6 (27:41):
Well, then another ICE agent could just pick them up
the next day because they know.
Speaker 4 (27:45):
They're here, because then they have the actual information.
Speaker 6 (27:47):
Yeah, then we have I'm not using race now now
we know that they're here illegally because we ran their
information and confirmed that they don't have legal status in
the US.
Speaker 5 (27:56):
And so that's that's kind.
Speaker 6 (27:58):
Of a I think that's why, because you don't get
rulings on an unlawful certain Caesar just says, you know,
very broadly, you can't stop based on these particular factors
in the future like that that covers the entire country.
I mean, you have to kind of analyze every case individually.
(28:18):
But there isn't really a remedy for it for somebody
who's here illegally because they're still here illegally even after
it happens. And so that's I think that was the reasoning.
But we'll see how that one plays out. That was
an interesting ruling by Judge of Kavanaugh. Justice Kavanaugh, and
he bade, but he pretty much said I or we
(28:38):
the majority will rule this way if it ever gets
to us. So I don't know if it'll just be
resolved now once it gets back down because the district
court judge's got to abide by the US Supreme Court's ruling,
or if it'll get up to the US Supreme Court
again and then we'll have a longer opinion with probably
the same reasoning.
Speaker 4 (28:57):
Very interesting. If you have any questions about the law
anything that we're talking about today, or you want to
put the power paytent on your side, you and give
us a call this morning. Three es are A four
three four five fifty to fifty eight is our number.
Three zero four three four five fifty to fifteen. You
can text over questions if you'd like. Three zero four
nine three five five zero zero eight. We'll take a
break and be back right after this. You're listening to
ask the lawyer with the Payton Law Firm. Tom Payton
is here. More information online Paton Law Firm dot com
(29:18):
and Nitro West Virginia will take a break and be
Backwright after this. You're listening to a five adwc H's
voice to Charleston.
Speaker 7 (29:23):
According to Feeding America, over seven million seniors nationwide where
food insecure in twenty twenty two. West Virginia is no different. Hi,
I'm Jason, President and CEO of Union Mission Ministries. For
one hundred and thirteen years, Union Mission has focused on
helping people in need. Right now, our senior citizens need
our help. That is why Union Mission is partnering with
(29:44):
local senior living facilities to get food delivered directly to
those in need. Will you help us reach more seniors?
Visit Union Mission dot com to learn more.
Speaker 8 (29:53):
Looking for fabric inspiration and friendly service, discover West Virginia
Quilt's shop in Barbersville. There this week's fifty to fifty Friday.
They're your local quilting destination, offering beautiful fabrics, patterns, notions
and supplies for every project. Explore their white selection or
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(30:14):
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Virginia quilt Shop Curtsey have the WCCHS family of networks.
Speaker 4 (30:35):
It's about eight minutes until the top of the hour.
You're more than welcome to give us a call this morning.
Tom Payton is here from the Payton Law Firm or
information Online, Payton Lawfirm dot com, Payton Lawfirm dot com,
p E Y t O N, Payton Lawfirroom dot com
and Nitro West Virginia. Give us all this morning. Three
zero four three four five fifty fifty eight three four
five fifty to fifty. That version of Country Roads always
makes me makes me want to talk a little slower
and bring things in a little nicer. It's Tomsing's my
(30:56):
brother in law.
Speaker 5 (30:57):
Yeah, that's how he's excellent guitar player.
Speaker 4 (31:00):
That's good stuff.
Speaker 6 (31:00):
Yeah, we love that when that's our hold music at
the office. And yeah, I've been kind of a somber
morning here. But if you want to see a nice
office with well maintained building, with a nice lawn and
uh good furniture, nice artwork by our office Tornado one
(31:21):
First Avenue, night, Trev. And of course we talk about
what's on the news here this morning.
Speaker 5 (31:28):
But if you have a question you can. Oh, we
have a call.
Speaker 4 (31:33):
I think so. I think we have a phone call
that came in before we go off the air. You
got into auto que here a caller. What's your first name?
It's Mike, Hey, Michael. What's your watch for Tom this morning?
Speaker 9 (31:43):
Hey Coop, Hey Tom. I just wanted to thank Tom.
I had a question a couple of weeks ago about
a deed that had a incorrect name on it in
Kenall County Court, and I emailed Peyton Law firm and
probably within two hours, Tom had responded and helped me
out with that situation. And I just wanted to thank
you for your promp response.
Speaker 8 (32:03):
Tom.
Speaker 9 (32:04):
I appreciate it.
Speaker 6 (32:04):
Yeah, I appreciate that. Thanks for the call too, Thanks
for listening much. Yeah, if you have a question, like
Mike ken, I think I remember that when you know
now that Canaw County is online at the record room.
A lot of times when I get a message from
the staff, I can just spend a minute and look
(32:26):
at what he was referencing. You know, used to be
at way you go, bring your deed in, let me
see you because it's really hard to comment on deeds
and legal documents without reading them myself, and so now
we can see them and answer a lot of those
basic questions. So it's really great they've got got it online.
It helps helps us help people, and that's what we
like to do. And of course, as Mike reference, we
(32:46):
do basic real estate, a state planning, uh, social care, disability,
but are kind of.
Speaker 5 (32:51):
Bread and butter.
Speaker 6 (32:51):
And what we really like to do is civil litigation,
so like trying cases going before jury's and we've had
a lot of success at it over the years. So
if you've been in a autobill accident or you have
a dispute with your insurance company, again we're we've got
multiple cases pending now about problems with folks heal damage
claims from the April hailstorms. And got another call.
Speaker 4 (33:16):
Yeah, I think we have another call. I slide that
in there. What's your name? Caller? You're on with Tom?
Just a couple of minutes left.
Speaker 3 (33:22):
Okay, I'm sorry I waited. I was outside working. I
have a real quick question. Sure, all these commercials about
deeds stealing our house, stealing pay us, and we'll make
sure no one steals your house because all this information,
as you just said, is online. I'll take your answer
(33:42):
off the air. Thank you.
Speaker 4 (33:43):
Make sure. Yeah.
Speaker 6 (33:44):
And I've had people ask me that I haven't seen
that in West Virginia. I mean I've seen fraudulent deeds before.
We had one at a state trooper come to my
office probably ten years ago and show us a deed.
I thought, well, let me look in a file. Well,
somebody had taken a deed from the courthouse and scanned
(34:08):
it somehow and superimposed a notary that worked at our
office the notary stamp. And then they won't record copies
at the record room of deeds. It has to be
an original signature. But they were able to you know,
your notary stamp these days is not in West Virginia,
is just ink. There's no raised seal on it. And
so they were able to superimpose that and basically record
(34:29):
a fraudulent deed transferring property to them. I haven't seen
that happened in West Virginia. I'll tell you there's a
new law and any lawyers out there doing real estate
may already know, but keep in mind if they've so.
Normally only the grand tour signs the deed. The person
who is conveying the property, like whoever's receiving it, doesn't
(34:50):
have to sign it. Similar to a car title. I
don't think the purchaser signs the back of a car title,
only the seller, but they've The legislature passed a law,
and I didn't realize so after it was passed. I'm
not one hundred percent sure on the reasoning. But now
if there's a deed that involves no consideration and it's
not a grandparent to parents or grandparent of grandchild parent
(35:13):
a child, then all parties have to sign off on
the deed, not just one side of the equation.
Speaker 5 (35:19):
And I think it was.
Speaker 6 (35:19):
To try and help with some unscrupulous activity of transferring
property to this person. Then maybe another person without you
wouldn't even know it came in your name and then
goes out of your name. But I haven't seen that
in West Virginia. I don't know about these companies that
market that product to monitor. I believe in Canall County
(35:43):
and most of the counties. If you really have concern
about that. I haven't seen it, so I don't have
concern about it myself. I haven't seen it here in
West Virginia. There is a way to track like you,
I could enter Tom Payton and say, you know, alert
me if anything happens under my name, and it will
(36:04):
track that subject matter and I can get an email
alert because I have an account if something's recorded that
matches my name in the record room, and of course,
anytime a deed's recorded, the clerk looks at the deed
and all parties to the deed, whether they're the sellers,
the buyers, if they're named in that deed, you get
(36:24):
a life of state. It's all indexed by the clerk.
So that's how you are able to look deeds up.
You got to type the name, and that's why you
have mistakes sometimes because everybody's human. You get a name
that's misspelled. You might not find the document if you
go and look for it. But I haven't seen that.
I've had clients ask about that. I haven't seen that
(36:45):
as a problem in West Virginia. I think it's maybe
some other states have different methods of recording. You can
you can do electronic recording in West Virginia. But you
have to use authorized third parties that have validation requirements,
meaning you don't have to bring the original to the
(37:05):
clerk to record. I could send it to this third
party who will then electronically file it through the record room.
Speaker 5 (37:12):
But they have.
Speaker 6 (37:15):
Lots of safeguards to make sure that that's not done fraudulently.
And of course it can all be it can all
be straightened out if it was a fraudulent transfer, and
and and but I haven't seen scammers doing that on
the on the regular I haven't had any call other
than the call we like we just got on the
(37:36):
radio where it's actually happened to someone where there's some
somebody has gone in and somehow gotten titled to their property.
And then you have other issues I know, a lot
out of time. None you have some time, and you
have some issues in other states where you have like
squatters' rights and and really difficult to get trespassers out
(37:57):
of property once they're in there. It's not the same
in West Virginia. So I think that's it's a concern,
but I haven't seen it yet, So I don't think
listeners really need to take any action out of out
of listening to those ads on the radio or television
about hi RS to protect you from having your property stolen.
Speaker 4 (38:16):
Yeah, there's probably other ways that you can monitor that
or check it yourself. You don't have to like pay
somebody to do it. On a constant pasis.
Speaker 6 (38:22):
That's right, and it's just not something I do so
much of that work. I haven't seen one instance of
it happening, and so if I do, I'll be certainly
do a PSA here on the radio.
Speaker 5 (38:32):
And seven one.
Speaker 4 (38:34):
Seven five five fifty five eighty six seven five five
fifty five fifty six. Payton Law Firm dot com. Payton
Lawfirm dot com. Tom see you next week.
Speaker 2 (38:40):
Beat Pitt w c hs A W two four three
d r f M Charles stand W two eight three
HU Coross Lanes a WVRC media station.
Speaker 4 (38:53):
We're proud to live here too,
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