October 9, 2025 • 37 mins
Host Dale Cooper and Harvey or Tom from the Peyton Law Firm discuss legal issues from listeners and matters affecting local politics.
More info: www.PeytonLawFirm.com
(304) 755-5556
2801 1st Ave, Nitro, WV 25143
The Peyton Law Firm was founded more than 30 years ago by Harvey Peyton, who was joined by his son, Tom Peyton. For more than 50 years, the Peyton team has successfully represented clients in courtrooms throughout WV and southeastern Ohio. The firm is known for its active community involvement and straightforward advice.
More info: www.PeytonLawFirm.com
(304) 755-5556
2801 1st Ave, Nitro, WV 25143
The Peyton Law Firm was founded more than 30 years ago by Harvey Peyton, who was joined by his son, Tom Peyton. For more than 50 years, the Peyton team has successfully represented clients in courtrooms throughout WV and southeastern Ohio. The firm is known for its active community involvement and straightforward advice.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 2 (00:15):
The views and opinions expressed on this program do not
necessarily reflect the views and opinions of five eight WCHS
it's employees or WVRC media.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
Of Courts Oh created different equote were mass.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Come here to Katon ray can robson Cops on.
Speaker 4 (00:46):
Its twenty one minutes past eight o'clock. You're listening to
five ADWCHS.
Speaker 5 (00:51):
It's Tom. You can put the law on your side,
as ask the lawyer. This morning. Tom Payton is in
studio with us.
Speaker 4 (00:56):
Three zero four three four five fifty eight three zero
four three four five fifty eight Tome.
Speaker 5 (01:00):
Good morning. How you doing this morning?
Speaker 2 (01:01):
I'm doing great deal.
Speaker 4 (01:02):
How are you? I am doing very well as well.
It's uh, things are changing, the seasons are changing. It
sure is a little cooler this morning than what we've
seen recently.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Yeah, I think it's gonna be a love forty on Saturday.
We're back to the a little rain there, back to
the nice sunny days for next week. So looking forward
to it.
Speaker 4 (01:18):
Almost putting on a jocket this morning. I didn't, but
I can close almost put on a jock.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
We heated my car.
Speaker 5 (01:23):
I thought about that too, just like good and.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Bad things about the Tesla. But you do have a
real convenient app on your phone where you can literally
set the climate control, you know, before you get into
the vehicle. The first time I've done it for this
in the morning this year. So but it's nice and convenient.
So maybe we'll get some calls ask the lawyer. So
if you have any questions and you're listening and you
can text in right or you can give us a
call because we have the I Fought the laws song
(01:46):
in our lead in, and you don't have to fight
the law. You can just call Peyton Law Firm Wolf
handle the law for you.
Speaker 5 (01:52):
With the along on your side.
Speaker 4 (01:53):
Lots of things going on, of course, if you have
any questions about anything in your life personally, things that
you have, some have issues you're trying to wind through
anything on the on the legal front of the Peyton
Law Froom can help you with. You know, a lot
of people I think sometimes have a hard time just
asking the first question, you know, getting on the right path,
and that's something that we can help you out with
this morning. You know, give us a call it three
zero four three four five fifty fifty eight, three four
(02:13):
five fifty fifty eight. You can text threes are four non,
three five five zero zero eight, three zero four non,
three five five zeros or eight. Any of those things
will work. You can also call the Peyton Law Firm
during their office hours. We'll give you a contact information
as we go along, so we don't overburden if you're
jotting down numbers right now. The primary number right now
threes are four three four five fifty eight fifty eight
three four five fifty eight fifty eight. As far as
broadly speaking in the law goes, there's a lot of
(02:34):
things going on in the state. The measure news is
covering things all the time, and there's just a lot
of activity right now.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
It seems well, we've had this running issue with the
mandatory vaccine law for kids that attend school, and we
have a kind of a battle between two different state entities,
the State Board of Education and the Governor's office, who
there's a statute that says you have to have certain
(03:00):
your children have to have certain vaccines onder to attend school,
and then that was addressed in the legislature. This past
session couldn't come to an agreement on a bill that
provided some exemptions to that mandate. There is already one
exemption in the specific Code regarding mandatory vaccination. It has
to do with medical exemption I think requires maybe some
(03:21):
kind of doctor's letter certificate that a vaccine isn't appropriate
for a child. But otherwise other exemptions were proposed in
the legislature and then ultimately didn't pass. So we're stuck
back with the law we've had for decades now. I
think maybe it was passed in the mid sixties if
I recall correctly. But a few years ago there was
(03:44):
a law passed. It was the Equal Protection of Religion Act,
and it's very broad, says no law shall this isn't
quoting verbatim, essentially infringe on someone's religious beliefs. So Governor
Morrissey being he wanted to bill to pass, I think
(04:07):
providing religious or philosophical exemptions to mandatory vaccination for schools,
and so he entered an executive order the spring, essentially
directing the State Board of Education to provide exemptions. Actually,
the announcement, I think an executive order says for religious
or philosophical reasons, and his legal justification for that was
(04:32):
this Equal Protection of Religion Act, which doesn't specifically reference
any particular law that can't infringe on someone's religion. But
he says, well, it applies to all laws, and so
it applies to the mandatory vaccine law. And then the
State Board of Education said, no, this previous law is
(04:54):
specific to vaccines, so we think we need to go
by that. And then few of civil actions have been
filed trying to basically by certainly the governmental entities are involved,
but there are parents as well, so you have two
different sides on the parents. You have the folks who
(05:14):
do not want their children to have vaccinations, and then
you have lawsuits filed by parents of children who might
be immunocompromised and don't want to be exposed to other
students who don't get the vaccinations. And so now we've
got cases at least three, maybe four cases in different
(05:36):
circuit courts of the state, which are the primary trial courts,
and we've got I think two or three circuit courts
in the northern part of the state have at least
preliminarily ruled that the the mandatory vaccine is valid, and
then we have really the case it's most active right
(05:58):
now is down in Raleigh County and that's where we've
had some testimony yesterday. I'm gonna have some more testimony
today Circuit Judge Frobell where he has entered up pluminary
injunction saying that they have to allow these exemptions to
the mandatory vaccine. So we've got conflicts, but I think
at this point the Supreme Court it's going to go
up to the West Virginia Supreme Court eventually. But they
(06:20):
didn't take swift action. I think some sort of appeal
was filed. I can't remember which entity filed it, but
they set kind of a conventional timeline where there won't
even be briefing and potentially until after the first of
the year. But Judge Froebell continues to subpoena and have
evidence your hearings to try and create a full record
(06:42):
on all aspects. And so I had some testimony in
September and now he's having some testimony pretty much all
day yesterday. I think the state health officer, doctor markin
McDaniel's scheduled to testify today and it is to be
the final witness. But interesting, I guess legal and kind
of philosophical issues in the case because the obviously the
(07:06):
Religious Protection Act uses the word religion, but then the
executive order about a governor says, well, you can get
an exemption for religion or philosophical beliefs, and then to
get the exemption, the governor's set up officers set up
a website, and really all you put in the website
if you do not want your child to be vaccinated,
(07:26):
is identification information, nothing about a particular religion or even
requesting a reason why. And so we have this debate about, well,
let's say somebody testifies was this is my philosophy that our
bodies are sacred and you know I don't want my
kids to have vaccines in their bodies. Well that's is
(07:49):
that a religion or is that philosophy or can you
even differentiate between those? So, you know, it's a practical issue.
It's kind of interesting to think about. But the Governor's
judge had everybody brief that particular issue, and I the
Governor's office took the takes the attitude that whether it's
a conscience of subjection, philosophical or religion, you really can't
(08:13):
differentiate between those religion. It puts philosophy and just a
conscience of subjection on the same level as religion, and
you can't differentiate. So they're therefore we don't need to
know why somebody wants the exemption. Once they request it,
we can't challenge it. That's essentially the governor's attitude. And
(08:36):
I think yesterday Brad maclainey has a good report and
there was even there were three significant findings at the
hearing yesterday. I won the judge and Roy Kind is
going to try and turn into a class action, which
means it could potentially apply across the state until the
Western Supreme Court rules on it. But he and it's
a you know, there's not been a written order yet.
(08:57):
But Brad had a quote from the judge. I think
the judge is going to generally go with the definition
proposed by the Governor's office and just say, well, you know,
you really can't differentiate between philosophical versus religious belief. Now
where Judge Trobell I think is going is the statute
(09:17):
has within it a definition of what religion is, and
it's got to be a sincerely held belief, which is
that type language has been applied in all different contexts
because you have all kinds of freedom religion cases out
there and not just basically antidiscriminatory laws on that. And
(09:42):
so then you've got to look at whether mandatory vaccines
and this is under the statute, is a narrowly tailored
act by the government to accomplish a compelling government interests
something like that in the statute. So fro Ball Thing
(10:05):
is going to go through those analysis and just see,
but there are it's difficult, and there are cases across
the country. It you know whether someone's belief is true
or not. Obviously, religion ultimately as you get to faith
and and so you know whether it's uh, the underlying
(10:28):
belief is true or not is not something you can
really analyze. Now, whether it's a sincere belief is something
in the cases I'm familiar with, it's it's it's fact finding.
I mean, if you if you just make up something
as your philosophy or your religion just to try and
get out of some particular tasks. For example, the cases
(10:49):
i've read that apply and you say equal protection to
protect your religious beliefs, they a lot of them say, well,
it's just individualized. You have to address each situation individually
because it involves the person's credibility. When you're addressing credibility,
it's really hard to do it, even just on paper,
because you've got to determine credibilities whether somebody's being truthful
(11:11):
or not. So, you know, Judge Froebel kind of said, well,
that's we're going to make it a class action because
it's just too inefficient to analyze all these on an
individual basis. I'm not sure that that will work in
the end. Based on the language of this statue. There
may be maybe they need to put out some rules that,
(11:32):
you know, have some basic factors just to screen out
those that are not asserting they have sincere religious or
philosophical beliefs. And so we'll see how that plays out.
This will be I think this is the end of
the testimony today. Really the most practical issue about whether
somebody has a sincere belief or not is I don't
(11:53):
think from when I got out of brad Report, I
don't know that Judge Frobil is going to really criticize
the governor's procedure for addressing these, but ultimately he did
the judge did reference this is a public health issue,
so it'll be interesting to see what he finds as
far as whether this is an mandatory school vaccines is
(12:16):
at a narrowly tailored way in which the government can
protect the public health, and that's the analysis I think
Judge Frobile is kind of concentrating on, and so hopefully
he's going to have the lawyers do more briefs and
so hopefully the next few weeks will get kind of
a ruling from Judge Frobel in this one, but ultimately
(12:38):
it's going to be up at the Western Supreme Court
of Appeals, and if he enters a final order that's
contrary to the other circuits. And I'm not really sure
how class action in this context would apply to other
circuit judges who are on equal footing with Judge Frobel,
who have made opposite decisions. When you have numerous conflicting
(12:58):
decisions by the lower courts like we might end up having,
and we have at least preliminarily, Now that's why you
have to go up to the those are the cases
in the federal level that get the US Supreme Court,
because you've got a federal court in West Venia it
says A, and a federal court in Alabama that says B.
And you know, one of them really have precedents to
over the other one. And that's what we're kind of
(13:18):
getting into here with our Circuit court. So Westernia Supreme
Court was going to need to address it. The problem
is we've got kid you know, we got this controversy
now and kids are in school right now, and so
everything's kind of up in the air, and it doesn't
sound like the Western Supreme Court is going to make
a ruling on it until the spring, although they could
take something up maybe preliminarily in the fall if something
(13:42):
changes and gets appealed, maybe if Judge Febile makes a
final ruling, a Supreme Court might move a little quicker
on it. But interesting, interesting scenario. A lot of you're
just looking on social media and things, there's a lot
of heartfelt thoughts on this both ways. So it goes
both directions for sure. And you know, you understand the
state school boards position because they've got a very specific
(14:04):
statute that says, it's been in place for decades. Then
you have this general statute about religious freedom and essence,
and it really wasn't passed in the context of the
mandatory vaccine law. And then you have if it if
it already applied while was the legislature even messing with
(14:25):
a debate this past spring about exemptions to the mandatory
vaccine law. So, I mean, the way I view it, it
kind of it's playing out definitely kind of than I thought.
But I thought it's really the the governor trying to
impose his personal preference and his will by finding a
law that nobody ever really thought applied to mandatory vaccines,
(14:49):
because I think the Equal Protection or Religious Religion Act
has been in place since maybe twenty twenty three. So
only when the legislature wouldn't do it, his administrator straation
wanted it to do. Then he enters an executive order
and relies upon this other statute that hasn't historically. I'll
(15:09):
be at a very short history a couple of years
been applied to mandatory vaccines. And what Paul Hardest do
you again, makes a lot of sense when he talks,
you know, read he had something earlier. This week, maybe
last week, he's the president of the state Board of Education.
You know, rather than just agree with the governor's interpretation,
(15:31):
they're seeking court guidance, which is appropriate. And I think
he said, whichever way the courts come down, obviously we're
going to end up following that law. But there's certainly
a conflict now, and it's it's kind of interesting to
watch it me and here through the courts, and and uh,
we'll see what Judge Frobel says. You know, our I
guess if you think of it in its basic form,
our mandatory vaccines before children attend school, which they're also
(15:56):
required to do. Uh, is that a appropriate way for
the government to address all these different diseases that can
occur if you don't have large scale vaccinations of the
population with very few exemptions. And is that a narrowly
tailored way to Obviously that's a compelling interest. I don't
(16:18):
think there's going to be a question there in my mind,
But is that is that method the narrowly tailored meaning
kind of minimally intrusive way to accomplish that compelling interest
of public safety?
Speaker 4 (16:35):
It's such an interesting you know, there's a lot of
emotions that are involved in as well, not to mention,
you know, potential life or death situations. So it's not
only an intellectual exercise. There's a lot of things that's
going on here. The thing that as a as a
purely lay observer, not an expert or in any of
these matters from the outside. The one thing that I've noticed,
and I've lived in multiple states that have passed some
versions of these religious freedom of some kind, it seems
(16:59):
like that they're and a lot of times they're like
alec proposed legislation, you know, they're kind of catch all
things that a that a national think tank comes up
with and they pass locally. And the thing that I've
noticed with a lot of these things, they seem to
be kind of catch alls, like they're developed for this reason.
The language seems to be so broad that you can
try to find ways to push a lot of things
into them to try to claim some sort of a
(17:20):
religious exemption. And sometimes it seems like a square peg
in a round hole. This is just from a from
an outsider looking in. It's it's you know, some of
these things have been going on forever. It seems kind
of weird that suddenly it's that it becomes a concentious issue.
And I was curious with what you said a minute
ago about there may be being like, you can't test
somebody's faith in their religion.
Speaker 5 (17:39):
I mean, there's just no way to do that there.
Speaker 4 (17:40):
I mean, supposedly the United States, all religions are equal
and you can't take a serious test on each of
those religions. But it could there be some sort of barrier,
like if somebody says my body is a temple, but
they obviously live like an absolute trash can and.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
When you dress. There's in the cases that I have
read just out of curiosity more than anything else regarding
this issue. That's the credibility assessment. So yeah, that's one
of the things they references, like, well, this person's behavior
in every other aspect of their life is inconsistent with
what they say their religious belief is when they don't
want to do this one particular task. But that's not
(18:17):
the end all be all of the analysis. That's one
assessment because at the same time, the very nature of
philosophical or religious beliefs is that they can person's mind
can change every time they learn something, or I mean
people convert all the time, and so you know that
(18:37):
those past behaviors are relevant but not absolute. And that's
where it becomes difficult when you get into credit. I
mean a lot of the cases I read on like
you get some employment cases. Let's say, and I won't
take a particular religion, but let's say that somebody there's
a religion that says, you know, you're not to work
on Saturdays, and your employer mandates that you have to
(19:00):
work on Saturdays, and you say, well, I want an
exemption from our religion, and so well, then can they
make you work on Saturdays or not? Or they need
to accommodate your schedule? Well, I could you know if
I don't want to work on Saturdays and I've never
practiced the religion that prohibits working on Saturdays and until
(19:22):
I get this job, I mean, certainly that would be suspect.
But maybe I just changed religions the month before I
got this particular job. So it's but those cases like that,
There are cases like that, and the ones I've read. Generally,
you have to have a fact founder, which the normal
(19:42):
fact founder when you have controversies about credibility are juries, which, obviously,
in the context we're talking about it here in West Virginia.
You can't have jury trials on whether I don't think
on whether every person that applies has a sincerely held
religious or philosophical belief. But you could have some administry
of determination or you know, it happens all the time.
(20:04):
You have administrative law judges who hear cases for things
like drivers' licenses, whether you meet the definitions of disability
for security and other things. So you I mean conceivably
there there could need to be a whole system set
up just to address these claims. And and of course
(20:26):
they're already one of the reasons Judge Froble certified this
or I think he's going to certify this as a
class of individuals similarly situated, because they already have hundreds
of folks that have submitted their online applications for their
children to be exempt from So you know, as this
filters through, if if they do need to make an
(20:47):
independent determination of whether somebody has a sincerely held religious
or philosophical belief, then they may have to set up
some procedure to make that analysis. It doesn't mean it's
going to result in jury trials or even lawsuits to
the court, but maybe some administrative process, a summary type proceeding.
There's a quick hearing to determine whether it's sincere or
(21:11):
not and then move on from there. Of course, you
can always appeal that to the to the Circuit court,
or then to the Supreme Court if you want, but
a lot of times those appeals are very limited. Don't
get a whole new bite at to apple when you
get a circuit court. It's just one of the procedural
judge made any clear legal errors and that kind of thing.
So we'll see how it plays out. But that that
(21:34):
might end up being necessary in order to apply the law.
Of course, that's not there is no there's no statute
that permits that right now under under the Equal Protection
for Religion Act. It just so right now, you end
up in circuit court if there's some challenge to sincerity
or uh, that kind of thing. So, and that's that's
(21:56):
where we are. Of course, this is the first time
we've gone through it in the first school year, so
it's uh, it's interesting to see how it will play out.
And I'm curious of what Judge Farible's ultimate ruling will
be on this. He grant he's the one judge I
think so far that granted the preliminary injunction that allows
kids to attend school without the mandatory immunization. So tend
(22:18):
to think he's leaning that direction because one of the
factors when you do a preliminary injunction is the likelihood
that which party is going to probably win in the end,
And so he seems to be an indicator that he
thinks most likely under the law, the parents who don't
with their children vaccinated are going to prevail. But uh,
it's not that simple because he's taken a lot of
(22:39):
testimony and and and he's even subpoened folks himself from
the court. Usually the lawyers or the parties are the
ones that request or subpoena is to require witnesses to
show up. But doctor McDaniel, it's coming this morning, was
actually subpoenaed by the judge, which is unusual, not not
unheard of, but unusual. So he Rayble's thinking about it,
(23:01):
and it'll be interesting to see where he comes down
on it. But ultimately decided by the Supreme Court, but
it won't be until yeah, so spring it best.
Speaker 4 (23:08):
So that's a great breakdown by Tom Payton from the
Payton Law Firm. We can thow things in a little
bit more locally for any issues that you're tackling that
has to do with the law. If you want to
put the power of Payton on your side this morning,
you can give us a call three zero four three
four five fifty fifty. We'll take a break here. It's
a perfect time to give us a call if you
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fifty eight fifty eight. Give us a call. We'll get
you on the air with a Payton law firm. You
can find out more information online Peyton Lawfirm dot com.
(23:30):
That's pey t you and Peyton Lawfirm dot com located
in Nitro, West Virginia. Thereforee numbers three are A four
seven five five fifty five fifty six. Threes are four
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(23:51):
HS The Voice of Charleston.
Speaker 6 (23:52):
Why do people trust Peyton Law Firm for personal injury
claims in West Virginia? Simple, Tom and Harvey are from here,
live here, and they're proud of it. If you've been
hurt and you want no nonsense representation that gets results,
you want the Peyton Law Firm. Don't let insurance companies
take advantage of you. Call three zero, four, seven, five,
(24:13):
five fifty five fifty six today for a free consultation.
Discover more at Peyton Lawfirm dot com.
Speaker 7 (24:21):
The West Virginia Book Festival returns to the Charleston Coliseum
and Convention Center on Saturday, October twenty fifth. Meet Pulitzer
Prize winner and West Virginia native Jane Ann Phillips, best
selling author Neil Schusterman, novelist and professor Rajiya Hasib, and
historical novelist Jeff Sharah. Check out the used book sale,
(24:44):
children's wordplay, and the festival marketplace. It's all free. More
details at WV Book Festival dot org.
Speaker 4 (25:05):
It's about thirteen minutes until the top of the hour,
still plenty of time to give us a call this morning.
Threes are four, three, four, five, fifty eight, fifteenth for
the power of Peyton on your side this morning. Threes
are four three, four, five, fifty eight fifteen. Anything that
you need to do to put the law on your side.
Of course, Peyton Law Firm is your hometown. Attorneys that
have been that are licensed in the state of West Virginia,
live in the state of West Virginia, lifelong residents just
in Nitro, West Virginia. So you can give us call
(25:26):
this morning if you have any questions. Threes are four three, four, five,
fifteen to fifteen.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
That's right, all our ads, if you hear one of
our lawyers, which is mere Dad talking, will be lawyers
actually licensed in the state of West Virginia. You've actually
worked here for decades and decades and decades, so and
I'm licensing o Hio too. Don't do anything but injury
work over no highs. I don't do any state planning
or family law and that kind of thing like we
(25:51):
do here in West Virginia. But if you have an
injury case, get a lot of cases from across the
river in Huntington Mason County over that direction, and so
we do those. And of course you know our bread
and butter as we say, you know civil litigation. We
do a lot of insurance disputes people that have been
injured and autobile accidents, trucking accidents, things like that. Of course,
(26:15):
you know, you don't know who that's going to be,
because nobody goes out in the morning expecting to get
rear into by a tractor trailer or fall in an
icy parking lot because the property entner didn't bother to
clean it up before inviting customers onto the premises. You
just don't, So you don't really know who you are
or your family. You don't know who those folks are
(26:36):
going to be until it happens, and you hope it
doesn't happen. But at the same time, we also do
that's because we like to help people. Really, we do
basic state planning, wills, deeds, things like that. So if
you have those type of concerns and there really isn't
any the old adage there isn't such thing as a
stupid question, but there really isn't when you're not a
(26:56):
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if you ask a question of us, even if we
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(27:16):
way up until we make some recovery for you. And
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(27:41):
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Lawfirm dot com, or you can give us a call
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you can answer them online or a quick phone call
(28:02):
and kind of get folks in the in the right direction.
So if you if you have a family member pass
away and you want to know, for example, what do
I need to go through the probate process. Well maybe,
but once you if you run to the courthouse and
then the courthouse tells you need to go through probate,
and once you open that estate and get appointed, for example,
(28:24):
if somebody's executor or administrator of their estate, you're pretty
much in it and you've got to go through the
entire process. And probably in the last six months, I've
had a dozen folks that have come to me after
they've been appointed so we can help them, you know,
the estate administration, and they really probably didn't even need
to go through probate if they would have just given
us a call beforehand. So, but your instinct is to
(28:48):
go to the courthouse. And now, of course there's just
humans in the courthouse and a lot a lot of
folks that work there. They do. I think most of
the staff, certainly in Putnam and Kinnaw County, who I
deal with most frequently, do a good job. But they
aren't ninety nine point nine percent aren't lawyers when you
go there, and they're really not. They're really prohibited from
giving legal advice, but they're trying to help folks, so
(29:09):
they give them information, but and it's it's they can't
give legal advice. So you know, if you have some
question in your mind about whether you need to do
this or that for in a state for example, or
uh maybe a ded issue how it relates to property tax,
you might want to just give us a quick call
(29:30):
or email and we can get it straightened out and
then if you need some work done, we certainly do
that do a lot of social scared disability cases too.
Those are also so scared disability. Is often overlooked, but
it is so important because you know, you hear about
well he's on disability, but he's out there mona his
lawn or something, people digging a ditch or whatever it is.
(29:51):
And there's certainly people on so scared disability that should
not be on so scared disability because they have the
ability to work full time. But I will tell you
that I try and screen those out of course when
we take cases. But most of my folks are hard
working people that have had you know, mortunately injuries or
illnesses that have just are now preventing them from working,
(30:14):
and then they develop mental health issues because people that
like us, that are used to working all the time,
you get depressed when you can't. You go out there
and work and they and they try and try, but ultimately,
when you apply for Social Security disability, you're usually not
working at all by that time. You can work a
little bit and still be considered disabled, but it's very
(30:35):
minimal income. It will be part time type work that's
that's basically sedentary. Then you might still be able to
get on disability. But when you apply, and why it's
so important, there's no you don't get a temporary payment
from the government. You get nothing until you win your case,
and the there is a bicklog at Social Security. It's
(30:56):
easy to file an application. They do them by phone.
You're basically just answering some questions. If you get better
during the SO Security process, you just go back to
work and drop your claim. There's no filing fee. But
generally from the time you file an application for social
care disability, and probably ninety eight percent of them are
(31:16):
not decided until you have a hearing, and you have
to jump through some other appeal hoops before you get there,
so you're playing on when from the time you apply
for SO security disability, you pretty well bank on a
couple of years before you'll get any benefit. So you've
got that two year period with no income, and so
what do you do? Well, it's it's real difficult. It's
(31:37):
everybody has a different scenario. If you're lucky enough to
have a spouse that can support you or family to
help you, then that's great. I've had clients that just
don't really have anybody. They're literally sometimes they get forced
into bankruptcy, sometimes they have to borrow money. Sometimes they're
bouncing around from friend's house to friend's house or even shelters.
And so that hearing that you end up getting is
(32:02):
with very few exceptions. You're one bite at to apple
to try and get approved for SO security disability. So
it's important, and don't we don't have thousands of those cases.
I handle them personally with my staff, so I know
what's going on. With every security disability case I have,
we have met and prepared you for a hearing and
made sure that all the information is there, so we
(32:23):
usually have a pretty good success rate. Can't win them
all if anybody says that they're lying to you. You
can also have non lawyers represent you in SO security
disability claims, which I strongly discourage.
Speaker 5 (32:35):
It seems dangerous.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
Well yeah, and it's it's the one realm where one
of the very few realms under the law where someone
who's not a lawyer can represent another person in what
is an essence in court. Otherwise that's prohibited, it would
be unauthorized practice of law, but they allowed in so security,
so you get some non lawyer advocates. But those cases
are also contingent, meaning if we accept the case, then
(33:00):
we don't get paid unless we win the claim. So
because there are so important, you really have folks who'll
try and go through it themselves and sometimes to say,
have a hearing and lose and there's not much we
can do after that to help them out. But you
can hire a lawyer if we're willing to take your case,
and then you don't have to pay any money up front.
(33:21):
It's all contingency fee and it doesn't come out of
your future monthly benefit. The lawyer gets a percentage of
the back pay and it's set by federal law and
it's capped, and then we front all the costs as well,
which don't have to be reimbursed to us unless we
win the claim. But I really that's another area or
a strong encourage folks to contact the competent attorney if
(33:42):
you apply for CIS Carey disability because you get past
that two year mark or whenever you have your hearing
and you lose, that's years and years of income you've lost,
because if you win, you get back paid. So they'll
go back and say, well, when was Tom Payton disabled?
All right, so for maybe each of those months leading
up to present, you know, we've got to pay that
lump sum back, and it can be oftentimes. I've had
(34:05):
more than one case where we've recovered back pay for
clients in the six figures because some technical issues that
cause their claim to drag in for years and years
and years. And certainly a lot of our cases were
getting you know, five figure back pay awards. And but
you go through that hearing with maybe a lawyer that
(34:27):
just mills these claims out and doesn't pay a lot
of attention to it, or a lawyer that you don't
even talk to until you actually get to the hearing.
That's your one shot at it. So you want to
be careful on who you select if you apply for
such carry disability, because it's you know, folks that aren't
disabled or have to go through that process don't realize
how critical that can be. Car wreck case, you get
(34:50):
whiplash or you know, maybe need some chiropractic treatment, physical
therapy better in a year, still working just to able
to work, and you still have some other income, and
we want to try and get a recovery for you
that you know satisfies the client. But you know you're
getting a so security disability claim. If you really can't work,
then no matter how your hearing turns out, if you lose,
(35:12):
you still can't work, so you still don't have income.
So they're just really important cases. And so I strongly
encourage folks out there. If you one, if you think
you've got an injury illness it's going to keep you
from working for at least twelve months, go ahead and
file your application. There's no trick to it. I tell
all my clients to file on their own, because there's
that one in a million chants that you might be
(35:35):
granted with your application depending on what your illness is.
Non You don't have to pay your lawyer and you
don't have to pay anything out of your back pay.
But once you're denied, then we can take over. And
that's when you kind of give us a call. But
you you basically want to get in line because it's
a line, and so that you want to get in early.
Soon as you think you might have a problem that's
going to keep you from working for twelve months, you
want to go ahead and make that call of security
(35:56):
and file your application.
Speaker 4 (35:57):
So you should expect the denial. You shouldn't be's. Yeah,
you shouldn't necessarily be like, well, that's it. I'll never
get benefits. Like if you get denied, immediately contact the
Payton Law firm. Christ, chances are, yeah, Chris.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
When I instruct folks to go ahead and apply on
their own, I don't always know the result, right, but
sometimes we do get some follow ups, and so I mean,
I gosh, I don't know what the rating is, but
it's probably one percent or less that get approved on
the initial application. Then you get a denial, usually sixty
to nine days out after your application. That's when we
can you call us. We look at the denial letter,
(36:27):
we'll do an analysis of whether it's a claim. We
think we have a decent chance of success, and if
we take it on, then you know, we do all
the work and and we generally have a pretty good
success rate. Can't win them all, that's not possible, but
all right out time, Yeah them left, Well, look forward
to coming back next week. And if you need a
lawyer for your reason, don't hesitate to give us a
(36:47):
call or send us an email or stop by the
office twenty oh one First Avenue in Night Trip.
Speaker 4 (36:52):
That's right, that's the Paytent Law Firm. Every Thursday right
here at eight twenty you can ask the lawyer with
the Payton Law Firm, either Tom or Harvey stops by
to take your questions or to talk about the law
as it might be happening.
Speaker 5 (37:01):
You can find more information online. It's Payton Lawfirm dot com.
Speaker 4 (37:04):
Paytonlawfirm dot com, located in Nitro, West Virginia three zero
four seven five five fifty five fifty six three zer
four seven five five fifty five fifty six. Also WCCHS
Network dot com slash ask the Lawyer. If you want
to listen to any past episodes, that'll do it for
us today. Coming up next will be Dave Allen on
five eighty Live. They'll be followed by Talklin with TJ
and Dave Wilson and then h Dave Allen and Amanda
(37:26):
Barron will be back this afternoon from midday, and I'll
be back with Dave weekly this afternoon at three or
six on hotline. Thanks so much for tuning in everyone.
This is five ADWCHS, the voice for Charleston.
Speaker 6 (37:38):
Five AWHSAM ninety six point five at Don Charleston one
oh four point five Cross Lanes, WVRC Media Station.
Speaker 2 (37:47):
We are proud to live here too,
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Speaker 2 (00:15):
The views and opinions expressed on this program do not
necessarily reflect the views and opinions of five eight WCHS
it's employees or WVRC media.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
Of Courts Oh created different equote were mass.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Come here to Katon ray can robson Cops on.
Speaker 4 (00:46):
Its twenty one minutes past eight o'clock. You're listening to
five ADWCHS.
Speaker 5 (00:51):
It's Tom. You can put the law on your side,
as ask the lawyer. This morning. Tom Payton is in
studio with us.
Speaker 4 (00:56):
Three zero four three four five fifty eight three zero
four three four five fifty eight Tome.
Speaker 5 (01:00):
Good morning. How you doing this morning?
Speaker 2 (01:01):
I'm doing great deal.
Speaker 4 (01:02):
How are you? I am doing very well as well.
It's uh, things are changing, the seasons are changing. It
sure is a little cooler this morning than what we've
seen recently.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Yeah, I think it's gonna be a love forty on Saturday.
We're back to the a little rain there, back to
the nice sunny days for next week. So looking forward
to it.
Speaker 4 (01:18):
Almost putting on a jocket this morning. I didn't, but
I can close almost put on a jock.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
We heated my car.
Speaker 5 (01:23):
I thought about that too, just like good and.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Bad things about the Tesla. But you do have a
real convenient app on your phone where you can literally
set the climate control, you know, before you get into
the vehicle. The first time I've done it for this
in the morning this year. So but it's nice and convenient.
So maybe we'll get some calls ask the lawyer. So
if you have any questions and you're listening and you
can text in right or you can give us a
call because we have the I Fought the laws song
(01:46):
in our lead in, and you don't have to fight
the law. You can just call Peyton Law Firm Wolf
handle the law for you.
Speaker 5 (01:52):
With the along on your side.
Speaker 4 (01:53):
Lots of things going on, of course, if you have
any questions about anything in your life personally, things that
you have, some have issues you're trying to wind through
anything on the on the legal front of the Peyton
Law Froom can help you with. You know, a lot
of people I think sometimes have a hard time just
asking the first question, you know, getting on the right path,
and that's something that we can help you out with
this morning. You know, give us a call it three
zero four three four five fifty fifty eight, three four
(02:13):
five fifty fifty eight. You can text threes are four non,
three five five zero zero eight, three zero four non,
three five five zeros or eight. Any of those things
will work. You can also call the Peyton Law Firm
during their office hours. We'll give you a contact information
as we go along, so we don't overburden if you're
jotting down numbers right now. The primary number right now
threes are four three four five fifty eight fifty eight
three four five fifty eight fifty eight. As far as
broadly speaking in the law goes, there's a lot of
(02:34):
things going on in the state. The measure news is
covering things all the time, and there's just a lot
of activity right now.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
It seems well, we've had this running issue with the
mandatory vaccine law for kids that attend school, and we
have a kind of a battle between two different state entities,
the State Board of Education and the Governor's office, who
there's a statute that says you have to have certain
(03:00):
your children have to have certain vaccines onder to attend school,
and then that was addressed in the legislature. This past
session couldn't come to an agreement on a bill that
provided some exemptions to that mandate. There is already one
exemption in the specific Code regarding mandatory vaccination. It has
to do with medical exemption I think requires maybe some
(03:21):
kind of doctor's letter certificate that a vaccine isn't appropriate
for a child. But otherwise other exemptions were proposed in
the legislature and then ultimately didn't pass. So we're stuck
back with the law we've had for decades now. I
think maybe it was passed in the mid sixties if
I recall correctly. But a few years ago there was
(03:44):
a law passed. It was the Equal Protection of Religion Act,
and it's very broad, says no law shall this isn't
quoting verbatim, essentially infringe on someone's religious beliefs. So Governor
Morrissey being he wanted to bill to pass, I think
(04:07):
providing religious or philosophical exemptions to mandatory vaccination for schools,
and so he entered an executive order the spring, essentially
directing the State Board of Education to provide exemptions. Actually,
the announcement, I think an executive order says for religious
or philosophical reasons, and his legal justification for that was
(04:32):
this Equal Protection of Religion Act, which doesn't specifically reference
any particular law that can't infringe on someone's religion. But
he says, well, it applies to all laws, and so
it applies to the mandatory vaccine law. And then the
State Board of Education said, no, this previous law is
(04:54):
specific to vaccines, so we think we need to go
by that. And then few of civil actions have been
filed trying to basically by certainly the governmental entities are involved,
but there are parents as well, so you have two
different sides on the parents. You have the folks who
(05:14):
do not want their children to have vaccinations, and then
you have lawsuits filed by parents of children who might
be immunocompromised and don't want to be exposed to other
students who don't get the vaccinations. And so now we've
got cases at least three, maybe four cases in different
(05:36):
circuit courts of the state, which are the primary trial courts,
and we've got I think two or three circuit courts
in the northern part of the state have at least
preliminarily ruled that the the mandatory vaccine is valid, and
then we have really the case it's most active right
(05:58):
now is down in Raleigh County and that's where we've
had some testimony yesterday. I'm gonna have some more testimony
today Circuit Judge Frobell where he has entered up pluminary
injunction saying that they have to allow these exemptions to
the mandatory vaccine. So we've got conflicts, but I think
at this point the Supreme Court it's going to go
up to the West Virginia Supreme Court eventually. But they
(06:20):
didn't take swift action. I think some sort of appeal
was filed. I can't remember which entity filed it, but
they set kind of a conventional timeline where there won't
even be briefing and potentially until after the first of
the year. But Judge Froebell continues to subpoena and have
evidence your hearings to try and create a full record
(06:42):
on all aspects. And so I had some testimony in
September and now he's having some testimony pretty much all
day yesterday. I think the state health officer, doctor markin
McDaniel's scheduled to testify today and it is to be
the final witness. But interesting, I guess legal and kind
of philosophical issues in the case because the obviously the
(07:06):
Religious Protection Act uses the word religion, but then the
executive order about a governor says, well, you can get
an exemption for religion or philosophical beliefs, and then to
get the exemption, the governor's set up officers set up
a website, and really all you put in the website
if you do not want your child to be vaccinated,
(07:26):
is identification information, nothing about a particular religion or even
requesting a reason why. And so we have this debate about, well,
let's say somebody testifies was this is my philosophy that our
bodies are sacred and you know I don't want my
kids to have vaccines in their bodies. Well that's is
(07:49):
that a religion or is that philosophy or can you
even differentiate between those? So, you know, it's a practical issue.
It's kind of interesting to think about. But the Governor's
judge had everybody brief that particular issue, and I the
Governor's office took the takes the attitude that whether it's
a conscience of subjection, philosophical or religion, you really can't
(08:13):
differentiate between those religion. It puts philosophy and just a
conscience of subjection on the same level as religion, and
you can't differentiate. So they're therefore we don't need to
know why somebody wants the exemption. Once they request it,
we can't challenge it. That's essentially the governor's attitude. And
(08:36):
I think yesterday Brad maclainey has a good report and
there was even there were three significant findings at the
hearing yesterday. I won the judge and Roy Kind is
going to try and turn into a class action, which
means it could potentially apply across the state until the
Western Supreme Court rules on it. But he and it's
a you know, there's not been a written order yet.
(08:57):
But Brad had a quote from the judge. I think
the judge is going to generally go with the definition
proposed by the Governor's office and just say, well, you know,
you really can't differentiate between philosophical versus religious belief. Now
where Judge Trobell I think is going is the statute
(09:17):
has within it a definition of what religion is, and
it's got to be a sincerely held belief, which is
that type language has been applied in all different contexts
because you have all kinds of freedom religion cases out
there and not just basically antidiscriminatory laws on that. And
(09:42):
so then you've got to look at whether mandatory vaccines
and this is under the statute, is a narrowly tailored
act by the government to accomplish a compelling government interests
something like that in the statute. So fro Ball Thing
(10:05):
is going to go through those analysis and just see,
but there are it's difficult, and there are cases across
the country. It you know whether someone's belief is true
or not. Obviously, religion ultimately as you get to faith
and and so you know whether it's uh, the underlying
(10:28):
belief is true or not is not something you can
really analyze. Now, whether it's a sincere belief is something
in the cases I'm familiar with, it's it's it's fact finding.
I mean, if you if you just make up something
as your philosophy or your religion just to try and
get out of some particular tasks. For example, the cases
(10:49):
i've read that apply and you say equal protection to
protect your religious beliefs, they a lot of them say, well,
it's just individualized. You have to address each situation individually
because it involves the person's credibility. When you're addressing credibility,
it's really hard to do it, even just on paper,
because you've got to determine credibilities whether somebody's being truthful
(11:11):
or not. So, you know, Judge Froebel kind of said, well,
that's we're going to make it a class action because
it's just too inefficient to analyze all these on an
individual basis. I'm not sure that that will work in
the end. Based on the language of this statue. There
may be maybe they need to put out some rules that,
(11:32):
you know, have some basic factors just to screen out
those that are not asserting they have sincere religious or
philosophical beliefs. And so we'll see how that plays out.
This will be I think this is the end of
the testimony today. Really the most practical issue about whether
somebody has a sincere belief or not is I don't
(11:53):
think from when I got out of brad Report, I
don't know that Judge Frobil is going to really criticize
the governor's procedure for addressing these, but ultimately he did
the judge did reference this is a public health issue,
so it'll be interesting to see what he finds as
far as whether this is an mandatory school vaccines is
(12:16):
at a narrowly tailored way in which the government can
protect the public health, and that's the analysis I think
Judge Frobile is kind of concentrating on, and so hopefully
he's going to have the lawyers do more briefs and
so hopefully the next few weeks will get kind of
a ruling from Judge Frobel in this one, but ultimately
(12:38):
it's going to be up at the Western Supreme Court
of Appeals, and if he enters a final order that's
contrary to the other circuits. And I'm not really sure
how class action in this context would apply to other
circuit judges who are on equal footing with Judge Frobel,
who have made opposite decisions. When you have numerous conflicting
(12:58):
decisions by the lower courts like we might end up having,
and we have at least preliminarily, Now that's why you
have to go up to the those are the cases
in the federal level that get the US Supreme Court,
because you've got a federal court in West Venia it
says A, and a federal court in Alabama that says B.
And you know, one of them really have precedents to
over the other one. And that's what we're kind of
(13:18):
getting into here with our Circuit court. So Westernia Supreme
Court was going to need to address it. The problem
is we've got kid you know, we got this controversy
now and kids are in school right now, and so
everything's kind of up in the air, and it doesn't
sound like the Western Supreme Court is going to make
a ruling on it until the spring, although they could
take something up maybe preliminarily in the fall if something
(13:42):
changes and gets appealed, maybe if Judge Febile makes a
final ruling, a Supreme Court might move a little quicker
on it. But interesting, interesting scenario. A lot of you're
just looking on social media and things, there's a lot
of heartfelt thoughts on this both ways. So it goes
both directions for sure. And you know, you understand the
state school boards position because they've got a very specific
(14:04):
statute that says, it's been in place for decades. Then
you have this general statute about religious freedom and essence,
and it really wasn't passed in the context of the
mandatory vaccine law. And then you have if it if
it already applied while was the legislature even messing with
(14:25):
a debate this past spring about exemptions to the mandatory
vaccine law. So, I mean, the way I view it, it
kind of it's playing out definitely kind of than I thought.
But I thought it's really the the governor trying to
impose his personal preference and his will by finding a
law that nobody ever really thought applied to mandatory vaccines,
(14:49):
because I think the Equal Protection or Religious Religion Act
has been in place since maybe twenty twenty three. So
only when the legislature wouldn't do it, his administrator straation
wanted it to do. Then he enters an executive order
and relies upon this other statute that hasn't historically. I'll
(15:09):
be at a very short history a couple of years
been applied to mandatory vaccines. And what Paul Hardest do
you again, makes a lot of sense when he talks,
you know, read he had something earlier. This week, maybe
last week, he's the president of the state Board of Education.
You know, rather than just agree with the governor's interpretation,
(15:31):
they're seeking court guidance, which is appropriate. And I think
he said, whichever way the courts come down, obviously we're
going to end up following that law. But there's certainly
a conflict now, and it's it's kind of interesting to
watch it me and here through the courts, and and uh,
we'll see what Judge Frobel says. You know, our I
guess if you think of it in its basic form,
our mandatory vaccines before children attend school, which they're also
(15:56):
required to do. Uh, is that a appropriate way for
the government to address all these different diseases that can
occur if you don't have large scale vaccinations of the
population with very few exemptions. And is that a narrowly
tailored way to Obviously that's a compelling interest. I don't
(16:18):
think there's going to be a question there in my mind,
But is that is that method the narrowly tailored meaning
kind of minimally intrusive way to accomplish that compelling interest
of public safety?
Speaker 4 (16:35):
It's such an interesting you know, there's a lot of
emotions that are involved in as well, not to mention,
you know, potential life or death situations. So it's not
only an intellectual exercise. There's a lot of things that's
going on here. The thing that as a as a
purely lay observer, not an expert or in any of
these matters from the outside. The one thing that I've noticed,
and I've lived in multiple states that have passed some
versions of these religious freedom of some kind, it seems
(16:59):
like that they're and a lot of times they're like
alec proposed legislation, you know, they're kind of catch all
things that a that a national think tank comes up
with and they pass locally. And the thing that I've
noticed with a lot of these things, they seem to
be kind of catch alls, like they're developed for this reason.
The language seems to be so broad that you can
try to find ways to push a lot of things
into them to try to claim some sort of a
(17:20):
religious exemption. And sometimes it seems like a square peg
in a round hole. This is just from a from
an outsider looking in. It's it's you know, some of
these things have been going on forever. It seems kind
of weird that suddenly it's that it becomes a concentious issue.
And I was curious with what you said a minute
ago about there may be being like, you can't test
somebody's faith in their religion.
Speaker 5 (17:39):
I mean, there's just no way to do that there.
Speaker 4 (17:40):
I mean, supposedly the United States, all religions are equal
and you can't take a serious test on each of
those religions. But it could there be some sort of barrier,
like if somebody says my body is a temple, but
they obviously live like an absolute trash can and.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
When you dress. There's in the cases that I have
read just out of curiosity more than anything else regarding
this issue. That's the credibility assessment. So yeah, that's one
of the things they references, like, well, this person's behavior
in every other aspect of their life is inconsistent with
what they say their religious belief is when they don't
want to do this one particular task. But that's not
(18:17):
the end all be all of the analysis. That's one
assessment because at the same time, the very nature of
philosophical or religious beliefs is that they can person's mind
can change every time they learn something, or I mean
people convert all the time, and so you know that
(18:37):
those past behaviors are relevant but not absolute. And that's
where it becomes difficult when you get into credit. I
mean a lot of the cases I read on like
you get some employment cases. Let's say, and I won't
take a particular religion, but let's say that somebody there's
a religion that says, you know, you're not to work
on Saturdays, and your employer mandates that you have to
(19:00):
work on Saturdays, and you say, well, I want an
exemption from our religion, and so well, then can they
make you work on Saturdays or not? Or they need
to accommodate your schedule? Well, I could you know if
I don't want to work on Saturdays and I've never
practiced the religion that prohibits working on Saturdays and until
(19:22):
I get this job, I mean, certainly that would be suspect.
But maybe I just changed religions the month before I
got this particular job. So it's but those cases like that,
There are cases like that, and the ones I've read. Generally,
you have to have a fact founder, which the normal
(19:42):
fact founder when you have controversies about credibility are juries, which, obviously,
in the context we're talking about it here in West Virginia.
You can't have jury trials on whether I don't think
on whether every person that applies has a sincerely held
religious or philosophical belief. But you could have some administry
of determination or you know, it happens all the time.
(20:04):
You have administrative law judges who hear cases for things
like drivers' licenses, whether you meet the definitions of disability
for security and other things. So you I mean conceivably
there there could need to be a whole system set
up just to address these claims. And and of course
(20:26):
they're already one of the reasons Judge Froble certified this
or I think he's going to certify this as a
class of individuals similarly situated, because they already have hundreds
of folks that have submitted their online applications for their
children to be exempt from So you know, as this
filters through, if if they do need to make an
(20:47):
independent determination of whether somebody has a sincerely held religious
or philosophical belief, then they may have to set up
some procedure to make that analysis. It doesn't mean it's
going to result in jury trials or even lawsuits to
the court, but maybe some administrative process, a summary type proceeding.
There's a quick hearing to determine whether it's sincere or
(21:11):
not and then move on from there. Of course, you
can always appeal that to the to the Circuit court,
or then to the Supreme Court if you want, but
a lot of times those appeals are very limited. Don't
get a whole new bite at to apple when you
get a circuit court. It's just one of the procedural
judge made any clear legal errors and that kind of thing.
So we'll see how it plays out. But that that
(21:34):
might end up being necessary in order to apply the law.
Of course, that's not there is no there's no statute
that permits that right now under under the Equal Protection
for Religion Act. It just so right now, you end
up in circuit court if there's some challenge to sincerity
or uh, that kind of thing. So, and that's that's
(21:56):
where we are. Of course, this is the first time
we've gone through it in the first school year, so
it's uh, it's interesting to see how it will play out.
And I'm curious of what Judge Farible's ultimate ruling will
be on this. He grant he's the one judge I
think so far that granted the preliminary injunction that allows
kids to attend school without the mandatory immunization. So tend
(22:18):
to think he's leaning that direction because one of the
factors when you do a preliminary injunction is the likelihood
that which party is going to probably win in the end,
And so he seems to be an indicator that he
thinks most likely under the law, the parents who don't
with their children vaccinated are going to prevail. But uh,
it's not that simple because he's taken a lot of
(22:39):
testimony and and and he's even subpoened folks himself from
the court. Usually the lawyers or the parties are the
ones that request or subpoena is to require witnesses to
show up. But doctor McDaniel, it's coming this morning, was
actually subpoenaed by the judge, which is unusual, not not
unheard of, but unusual. So he Rayble's thinking about it,
(23:01):
and it'll be interesting to see where he comes down
on it. But ultimately decided by the Supreme Court, but
it won't be until yeah, so spring it best.
Speaker 4 (23:08):
So that's a great breakdown by Tom Payton from the
Payton Law Firm. We can thow things in a little
bit more locally for any issues that you're tackling that
has to do with the law. If you want to
put the power of Payton on your side this morning,
you can give us a call three zero four three
four five fifty fifty. We'll take a break here. It's
a perfect time to give us a call if you
want to get ready. Threes are four three four five
fifty eight fifty eight. Give us a call. We'll get
you on the air with a Payton law firm. You
can find out more information online Peyton Lawfirm dot com.
(23:30):
That's pey t you and Peyton Lawfirm dot com located
in Nitro, West Virginia. Thereforee numbers three are A four
seven five five fifty five fifty six. Threes are four
seven five five fifty five fifty six. We'll take a
break and be back right after this, and then you
can give us a call. You can control the next
topic of conversation by give us a call at three
zero four three four five fifty eight fifty eight. We'll
be back right to this. You're asking, you're listening to
ask the law. You're on five at E W c
(23:51):
HS The Voice of Charleston.
Speaker 6 (23:52):
Why do people trust Peyton Law Firm for personal injury
claims in West Virginia? Simple, Tom and Harvey are from here,
live here, and they're proud of it. If you've been
hurt and you want no nonsense representation that gets results,
you want the Peyton Law Firm. Don't let insurance companies
take advantage of you. Call three zero, four, seven, five,
(24:13):
five fifty five fifty six today for a free consultation.
Discover more at Peyton Lawfirm dot com.
Speaker 7 (24:21):
The West Virginia Book Festival returns to the Charleston Coliseum
and Convention Center on Saturday, October twenty fifth. Meet Pulitzer
Prize winner and West Virginia native Jane Ann Phillips, best
selling author Neil Schusterman, novelist and professor Rajiya Hasib, and
historical novelist Jeff Sharah. Check out the used book sale,
(24:44):
children's wordplay, and the festival marketplace. It's all free. More
details at WV Book Festival dot org.
Speaker 4 (25:05):
It's about thirteen minutes until the top of the hour,
still plenty of time to give us a call this morning.
Threes are four, three, four, five, fifty eight, fifteenth for
the power of Peyton on your side this morning. Threes
are four three, four, five, fifty eight fifteen. Anything that
you need to do to put the law on your side.
Of course, Peyton Law Firm is your hometown. Attorneys that
have been that are licensed in the state of West Virginia,
live in the state of West Virginia, lifelong residents just
in Nitro, West Virginia. So you can give us call
(25:26):
this morning if you have any questions. Threes are four three, four, five,
fifteen to fifteen.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
That's right, all our ads, if you hear one of
our lawyers, which is mere Dad talking, will be lawyers
actually licensed in the state of West Virginia. You've actually
worked here for decades and decades and decades, so and
I'm licensing o Hio too. Don't do anything but injury
work over no highs. I don't do any state planning
or family law and that kind of thing like we
(25:51):
do here in West Virginia. But if you have an
injury case, get a lot of cases from across the
river in Huntington Mason County over that direction, and so
we do those. And of course you know our bread
and butter as we say, you know civil litigation. We
do a lot of insurance disputes people that have been
injured and autobile accidents, trucking accidents, things like that. Of course,
(26:15):
you know, you don't know who that's going to be,
because nobody goes out in the morning expecting to get
rear into by a tractor trailer or fall in an
icy parking lot because the property entner didn't bother to
clean it up before inviting customers onto the premises. You
just don't, So you don't really know who you are
or your family. You don't know who those folks are
(26:36):
going to be until it happens, and you hope it
doesn't happen. But at the same time, we also do
that's because we like to help people. Really, we do
basic state planning, wills, deeds, things like that. So if
you have those type of concerns and there really isn't
any the old adage there isn't such thing as a
stupid question, but there really isn't when you're not a
(26:56):
lawyer and you have some question about the law. So
if you ask a question of us, even if we
view it as a simple one, you're going to get
a good consciencence answer from our office and we don't
you know, all injury cases and insurance cases we handle
on contingency fees. So it's always it's free all the
(27:16):
way up until we make some recovery for you. And
if something goes bad in the case that we didn't
expect and you don't get a recovery, then you don't
know us for a time, and you don't know us
for costs we might have advanced for experts and filing
fees and things like that. So those are all you know,
basically free representation until the time comes we actually get
a successful result. But if you have a question about
(27:41):
you know, boundary dispute and a state administration issue, you
can send us an email through our website at Peyton
Lawfirm dot com, or you can give us a call
and we we answer those initial basic questions without those
are all free consultations too. I mean doesn't mean you
to come in the office and that's more difficult. Easily
you can answer them online or a quick phone call
(28:02):
and kind of get folks in the in the right direction.
So if you if you have a family member pass
away and you want to know, for example, what do
I need to go through the probate process. Well maybe,
but once you if you run to the courthouse and
then the courthouse tells you need to go through probate,
and once you open that estate and get appointed, for example,
(28:24):
if somebody's executor or administrator of their estate, you're pretty
much in it and you've got to go through the
entire process. And probably in the last six months, I've
had a dozen folks that have come to me after
they've been appointed so we can help them, you know,
the estate administration, and they really probably didn't even need
to go through probate if they would have just given
us a call beforehand. So, but your instinct is to
(28:48):
go to the courthouse. And now, of course there's just
humans in the courthouse and a lot a lot of
folks that work there. They do. I think most of
the staff, certainly in Putnam and Kinnaw County, who I
deal with most frequently, do a good job. But they
aren't ninety nine point nine percent aren't lawyers when you
go there, and they're really not. They're really prohibited from
giving legal advice, but they're trying to help folks, so
(29:09):
they give them information, but and it's it's they can't
give legal advice. So you know, if you have some
question in your mind about whether you need to do
this or that for in a state for example, or
uh maybe a ded issue how it relates to property tax,
you might want to just give us a quick call
(29:30):
or email and we can get it straightened out and
then if you need some work done, we certainly do
that do a lot of social scared disability cases too.
Those are also so scared disability. Is often overlooked, but
it is so important because you know, you hear about
well he's on disability, but he's out there mona his
lawn or something, people digging a ditch or whatever it is.
(29:51):
And there's certainly people on so scared disability that should
not be on so scared disability because they have the
ability to work full time. But I will tell you
that I try and screen those out of course when
we take cases. But most of my folks are hard
working people that have had you know, mortunately injuries or
illnesses that have just are now preventing them from working,
(30:14):
and then they develop mental health issues because people that
like us, that are used to working all the time,
you get depressed when you can't. You go out there
and work and they and they try and try, but ultimately,
when you apply for Social Security disability, you're usually not
working at all by that time. You can work a
little bit and still be considered disabled, but it's very
(30:35):
minimal income. It will be part time type work that's
that's basically sedentary. Then you might still be able to
get on disability. But when you apply, and why it's
so important, there's no you don't get a temporary payment
from the government. You get nothing until you win your case,
and the there is a bicklog at Social Security. It's
(30:56):
easy to file an application. They do them by phone.
You're basically just answering some questions. If you get better
during the SO Security process, you just go back to
work and drop your claim. There's no filing fee. But
generally from the time you file an application for social
care disability, and probably ninety eight percent of them are
(31:16):
not decided until you have a hearing, and you have
to jump through some other appeal hoops before you get there,
so you're playing on when from the time you apply
for SO security disability, you pretty well bank on a
couple of years before you'll get any benefit. So you've
got that two year period with no income, and so
what do you do? Well, it's it's real difficult. It's
(31:37):
everybody has a different scenario. If you're lucky enough to
have a spouse that can support you or family to
help you, then that's great. I've had clients that just
don't really have anybody. They're literally sometimes they get forced
into bankruptcy, sometimes they have to borrow money. Sometimes they're
bouncing around from friend's house to friend's house or even shelters.
And so that hearing that you end up getting is
(32:02):
with very few exceptions. You're one bite at to apple
to try and get approved for SO security disability. So
it's important, and don't we don't have thousands of those cases.
I handle them personally with my staff, so I know
what's going on. With every security disability case I have,
we have met and prepared you for a hearing and
made sure that all the information is there, so we
(32:23):
usually have a pretty good success rate. Can't win them
all if anybody says that they're lying to you. You
can also have non lawyers represent you in SO security
disability claims, which I strongly discourage.
Speaker 5 (32:35):
It seems dangerous.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
Well yeah, and it's it's the one realm where one
of the very few realms under the law where someone
who's not a lawyer can represent another person in what
is an essence in court. Otherwise that's prohibited, it would
be unauthorized practice of law, but they allowed in so security,
so you get some non lawyer advocates. But those cases
are also contingent, meaning if we accept the case, then
(33:00):
we don't get paid unless we win the claim. So
because there are so important, you really have folks who'll
try and go through it themselves and sometimes to say,
have a hearing and lose and there's not much we
can do after that to help them out. But you
can hire a lawyer if we're willing to take your case,
and then you don't have to pay any money up front.
(33:21):
It's all contingency fee and it doesn't come out of
your future monthly benefit. The lawyer gets a percentage of
the back pay and it's set by federal law and
it's capped, and then we front all the costs as well,
which don't have to be reimbursed to us unless we
win the claim. But I really that's another area or
a strong encourage folks to contact the competent attorney if
(33:42):
you apply for CIS Carey disability because you get past
that two year mark or whenever you have your hearing
and you lose, that's years and years of income you've lost,
because if you win, you get back paid. So they'll
go back and say, well, when was Tom Payton disabled?
All right, so for maybe each of those months leading
up to present, you know, we've got to pay that
lump sum back, and it can be oftentimes. I've had
(34:05):
more than one case where we've recovered back pay for
clients in the six figures because some technical issues that
cause their claim to drag in for years and years
and years. And certainly a lot of our cases were
getting you know, five figure back pay awards. And but
you go through that hearing with maybe a lawyer that
(34:27):
just mills these claims out and doesn't pay a lot
of attention to it, or a lawyer that you don't
even talk to until you actually get to the hearing.
That's your one shot at it. So you want to
be careful on who you select if you apply for
such carry disability, because it's you know, folks that aren't
disabled or have to go through that process don't realize
how critical that can be. Car wreck case, you get
(34:50):
whiplash or you know, maybe need some chiropractic treatment, physical
therapy better in a year, still working just to able
to work, and you still have some other income, and
we want to try and get a recovery for you
that you know satisfies the client. But you know you're
getting a so security disability claim. If you really can't work,
then no matter how your hearing turns out, if you lose,
(35:12):
you still can't work, so you still don't have income.
So they're just really important cases. And so I strongly
encourage folks out there. If you one, if you think
you've got an injury illness it's going to keep you
from working for at least twelve months, go ahead and
file your application. There's no trick to it. I tell
all my clients to file on their own, because there's
that one in a million chants that you might be
(35:35):
granted with your application depending on what your illness is.
Non You don't have to pay your lawyer and you
don't have to pay anything out of your back pay.
But once you're denied, then we can take over. And
that's when you kind of give us a call. But
you you basically want to get in line because it's
a line, and so that you want to get in early.
Soon as you think you might have a problem that's
going to keep you from working for twelve months, you
want to go ahead and make that call of security
(35:56):
and file your application.
Speaker 4 (35:57):
So you should expect the denial. You shouldn't be's. Yeah,
you shouldn't necessarily be like, well, that's it. I'll never
get benefits. Like if you get denied, immediately contact the
Payton Law firm. Christ, chances are, yeah, Chris.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
When I instruct folks to go ahead and apply on
their own, I don't always know the result, right, but
sometimes we do get some follow ups, and so I mean,
I gosh, I don't know what the rating is, but
it's probably one percent or less that get approved on
the initial application. Then you get a denial, usually sixty
to nine days out after your application. That's when we
can you call us. We look at the denial letter,
(36:27):
we'll do an analysis of whether it's a claim. We
think we have a decent chance of success, and if
we take it on, then you know, we do all
the work and and we generally have a pretty good
success rate. Can't win them all, that's not possible, but
all right out time, Yeah them left, Well, look forward
to coming back next week. And if you need a
lawyer for your reason, don't hesitate to give us a
(36:47):
call or send us an email or stop by the
office twenty oh one First Avenue in Night Trip.
Speaker 4 (36:52):
That's right, that's the Paytent Law Firm. Every Thursday right
here at eight twenty you can ask the lawyer with
the Payton Law Firm, either Tom or Harvey stops by
to take your questions or to talk about the law
as it might be happening.
Speaker 5 (37:01):
You can find more information online. It's Payton Lawfirm dot com.
Speaker 4 (37:04):
Paytonlawfirm dot com, located in Nitro, West Virginia three zero
four seven five five fifty five fifty six three zer
four seven five five fifty five fifty six. Also WCCHS
Network dot com slash ask the Lawyer. If you want
to listen to any past episodes, that'll do it for
us today. Coming up next will be Dave Allen on
five eighty Live. They'll be followed by Talklin with TJ
and Dave Wilson and then h Dave Allen and Amanda
(37:26):
Barron will be back this afternoon from midday, and I'll
be back with Dave weekly this afternoon at three or
six on hotline. Thanks so much for tuning in everyone.
This is five ADWCHS, the voice for Charleston.
Speaker 6 (37:38):
Five AWHSAM ninety six point five at Don Charleston one
oh four point five Cross Lanes, WVRC Media Station.
Speaker 2 (37:47):
We are proud to live here too,
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