August 28, 2025 • 55 mins
Coach Pat Kirkland, Special Teams Coordinator and Defensive Assistant Coach for the West Virginia Mountaineers drops by to talk about coaching special teams and what it takes to be a good special teams player. Then, Dr. Jaclyn Swayne of the West Virginia Secondary Schools Activity Commission comes in studio to talk about her new role with the WVSSAC, plus what's new for the 2025-26 academic year. Let's Talk!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Yeah, you gotta work. You gotta work, Ruy Shine, it's
mine gotta show. Everybody is my sign you gotta work,
right Shine. Another mind trying to die today line don't tell.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
You gotta work.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Welcome to Let's Talk with Carl Lee and frequent guest
hosts Hollis Lewis and Lisa Odie, where sports culture and
community intersect. Join the crew as they dive into engaging
conversations with guests from all walks of the sports life.
Let's Talk as proudly presented by Attorney Frank Walker, Real Talk,
Real Experience, Real Results, Frank Walker Law dot com and
(00:43):
by the all new historic Choyer Diner in downtown Charleston,
one line at Choyerdner dot com. Let the conversation begin
on Let's Talk.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
All right, ladies and gentlemen.
Speaker 4 (00:55):
This is Carl Lee with Let's Talk, and we have
a I have my co host Hollis Lewis, Hello, Hello,
and my other co host Lisa Odi.
Speaker 5 (01:07):
Hello.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
And Lisa Odi.
Speaker 4 (01:09):
Has brought us a guest knowing and she's going to
introduce and we will Q and a M.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Yes.
Speaker 5 (01:14):
So we're excited about this guest tonight. Now that we're
only what four or five sleeps away from college football
kicking off. I like it right right, so our guest tonight.
He has quite an extensive resume. I'm going to give
you a little bit of background before I introduce him,
But he this year is the first year special teams
coordinator and defensive assistant coach to Rich Rod in Morgantown.
(01:36):
Just last year and in twenty twenty four, he was
the coordinator at Jacksonville State. I'm going to give you
some information about that that will kind of blow your mind.
But his special teams ranked number two in Conference USA
kickoff returns, kick return defense, net punting punt returns, and
punt return defense. Twenty twenty three, the game Cocks averaged
(01:59):
six Listen to this, sixty two point one yards per
kickoff with thirty nine touchbacks. Nice jack jack State's defense
led Conference USA and sacks I believe the same year
twenty twenty three, pack can I said his name, He
can correct me if I'm wrong. They racked up thirty
nine sacks in thirteen games, resulting in two hundred and
(02:19):
ninety one lost yards. His resume also includes ten years
of head coaching experience at the University of Charleston, where
in twenty fifteen his football team finished ten and one,
ranked number fifteen in the nation after earning a spot
in the NCAA Division Two playoffs. He's a native of Akron, Ohio,
and earned degrees from Muskingen University and played collegiate ball there.
(02:44):
So welcome our special guest tonight, Coach pack Kirkland.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Hey, Coachland, Good, how are you, coach?
Speaker 6 (02:52):
I'm doing great to hear from you, guys. How's everything going.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Oh, it's moving, We're keeping it moving.
Speaker 4 (03:00):
I want to My first question is, Okay, So when
I'm hearing all of this that that least is talking
about of your achievements, I go right straight to the
special teams thing, because one most folks don't understand the
relevance and how important special teams are.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
And I'm trying to figure out, like I'm.
Speaker 4 (03:22):
Listening to all these acculades that you have there, and
I'm trying to figure out, like, how do you what
is what is it that you're looking for when you
start looking for a guy who's going to run down
on kickoffs or any of that kind of stuff, Because
how do you what are you trying to do?
Speaker 2 (03:38):
What do you who are you, How are.
Speaker 4 (03:39):
You trying to put this group together that they can
do this and achieve these kinds of honors.
Speaker 6 (03:47):
Yeah, well, I think the first of ball is getting
those guys buying in on how big of the role
special teams plays in a game. So you know, when
you know, we looked at all of West Virginia University's
games last year and broke them down and you know,
counted the number of snaps and we found out really
special teams with anywhere nineteen to twenty two percent of
snaps or some form of a special team to play.
(04:08):
And when you start talking to two young people and
guys on the team about that and the role that
that plays, they understand the importance of it. And and
you know, then you start bringing up game tape and
seeing the difference and the opportunities that they had maybe
even last year to you know, do some things and
and and change the course of the game. And you know,
obviously now guys also want to create some value for themselves.
(04:31):
And you know, Carl, you know, playing at the next level,
if you're not out the quarterback or you know, an
offense or defensive lineman or that that first round draft,
you're on a special teams, right, and so they know
it's also the opportunity to create some value for themselves.
So you know, we're I'm blessed to work for a
head coach that that you know, we spend a lot
of time on it, and you know, we want to
(04:52):
make sure we put the guys that fit the role
that we're asking to play. From the from the special
team standpoint, there used.
Speaker 4 (05:01):
To be a kind of a stereotype of the type
of player who plays special teams. And I and I
was a I was a gunner on the punt team.
I was an R three on the kickoff team my
entire career in Minnesota. So I and I hated it.
But but but it was something that you know, you
(05:23):
couldn't you know, I couldn't say, well, I don't want
to I don't want to do this, you know, And
then you can't say, well, I'm not gonna do it
hard because because you're gonna get knocked out. And I
had those experiences of running down and trying to figure
out who's blocking me, and I got I got blindsided
a few times, and I was like, okay, so I
I understand too. The film work of trying to figure
(05:46):
out who's that guy that's going to be coming to
hit you?
Speaker 6 (05:50):
You know, so.
Speaker 4 (05:53):
You you you How do you hype the kids to
get them to say, like, okay, and I get it,
they're not playing off to not playing defense general special teams.
What is it that motivate What is it that you
use to kind of really truly motivate them to want
to be the best of anybody else's kickoff team or
kickoff return team or punt cover team. What what is
(06:14):
it that you use to get them How do you
sell them on that, because I think I think that's
a that's an amazing feat if you're able to do that.
Speaker 6 (06:23):
Yeah, and I'm with you. It definitely takes a you know,
a special person with mentality and the accountability to to
you know, we call them teamers here, guys that play
a big role on special teams and maybe not as
big of a role on offense or defense, but it's
guys that are bought into one. They love to compete,
and there's probably a mentality that is a little bit
(06:45):
different because like you said, I'm still you can scheme
up kickoff all you want it. Definitely, the personnel you've
got on that unit, and I am all in on
that finding the right guys that you know, like you
are fearless and want to come pete and play at
a high level and aren't afraid of contact. You know,
that's for sure, and and you know that's that takes
(07:07):
some time. That's probably one of our biggest challenges when
we came in in January and then got in the
spring ball was just you know, trying to evaluate talent,
not just you know, at position specific stuff on offense
or defense, but guys that fit the mentality and we
could plug and play in some of those roles on
special teams. But you know, I draw from a lot
of guys that have amazing NFL careers because of their
(07:31):
roles they play on special teams. And I said, hey,
we're all not going to be first round, second round
draft picks. But you know these are roles now that
that you know NFL, you know scouts and coaches are
looking for and this is what they want to see.
And not just that, but if you got the right guys,
they just want to go out there and compete. At
the end of the day, we're all working hard and
you want to get on the field, and you know,
(07:53):
you want those guys that, regardless of what it is,
any opportunity to see playing time, they're going to take
advantage of it.
Speaker 5 (08:00):
Yeah, So coach, I wanted to just kind of touch on.
I saw that you had an interview with MSN about
a week ago and you mentioned wanting competition at all
of your specialist positions. Have you finally settled on your
starting punter and field goal kicker for the season or
is it still something you're working through.
Speaker 6 (08:21):
We're closer, you know, right now. We got a returning
starter in Ali Straw who's from Melbourne, Australia. He was
a starter last year. He's doing some different things for
us this here as far as what they asked from
a year ago. He's someone that's got a very unique
skill set. He can do all the different unique style
(08:41):
kicks and punts that that teams are doing now. So
he's definitely as merged as a leader in that specialist room,
and you know, he's kind of taken over that, you know,
definitely the role as that starting punter. And we got
some other guys that are very capable, but you know,
Ali's a senior and he's a proven compet editor and
leader and done a great job. The other ones we're
(09:03):
still we're still working on. You know, I think we're
going to head right up into it with it. We
had a couple of guys that are very capable, and
you know, thank goodness, we still got a couple more
days to evaluate. And that's not because I don't think
any of them are worthy of It's just we're blessed
to have a couple of guys that we feel good about.
Speaker 7 (09:25):
Coaches is Hollis Now, I just want to get into
like the mindset of a special teams coordinator, because I
think the novice fan may not understand sort of the
duplicity that happens because you have to not only approach
it from a defensive standpoint, you need to approach it
from an offensive standpoint. And at the same time you
(09:46):
want to sort of, you know, squash mistakes, which is
glaring from the special team. So just managing those different
perspectives and the various teams, because.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
It's not just you're not just coaching office.
Speaker 7 (09:58):
You have to punt return, the punt team, the kickoff team,
you know, the field goals, so everything that you do count.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
So how do you how do you manage.
Speaker 6 (10:07):
All that well, we've we've got a lot of good
guys that that I work with here on special teams
and that are a big, big help with that. You know,
some of the stuff that people you know, they always
talk about the kicker, the punt returner, the kick returner,
you know, that's a piece of it. But finding the
guys that can block, protect, run down, cover kicks, do
(10:30):
all those things as a really big part of it,
because especially you know, you go into Big twelve play,
we're going to see some pretty dynamic you know, returners
on kickoff and punt return and equally, you know they're
going to have guys everybody's putting their best athletes now
to try to come after kicks and block kicks. So,
you know, our goal one is is to be diverse
(10:51):
enough in the kicking game that we're not predictable. And
you've got to be careful, especially early on in the season.
You don't want to have so much in that the
kids can't execute at a high level. And that's important.
But you know, really what we're we'll do early well,
we'll try to keep it somewhat simple, you know, early
and and keep building on that as the season goes on.
(11:14):
You know a lot of that's just doing a great
job of self scouting. You know what did you do
last week that teams may pick up on? And you
know what can we what rakles can we throw in
week to week to help us out nice.
Speaker 4 (11:25):
One of the other things that that I think about
when I when I think about special teams is the
the excitement that comes with let's say the kickoff, the
initial kickoff and the players who are those kind of
guys that are are your I guess you can almost
(11:46):
call them hype guys that you just can automatically count
on those kind of guys. Do you do you purposely
press them to do that or I know that they'll
do it on their own. But is there a place
where you want that you want to get in front
of that guy, talk to him and say, come on,
we gotta go.
Speaker 6 (12:06):
We got it?
Speaker 4 (12:06):
You know you you want to get him going so
that you know he's going to go crazy. Do you
have those types of guys that you that you kind
of push to get crazy and they'll do it for you?
Speaker 6 (12:20):
Like Carl, Absolutely No, he's spot on. You can tell
this guy that that that gets it, because those are
the guys you're looking for and you hope on your team.
You don't have to look too hard to find these guys,
you know, because one that they are a big personality
in your program. They have a passion for football and
(12:43):
you don't have to give them a pep talk to
get them ready to go. But you love doing it
because they get you fired up as well. And we've
got some guys that you know are ready for Saturday
and just to go down there and get after it.
You know, I'm hoping that you know, we got kickoff
off first, and we go down there and set the
tempo and and you know, get the crowd involved early
(13:03):
because you know, those guys they've they've worked hard, and
I think we've got a good unit, some guys that uh,
you know, really care about w football and and and
have a passion for it. But it does take a
different mentality. It's not for everyone, right, you know, we
got some really good football players on this team, and
I'm not saying names, but they wouldn't be good on
(13:24):
kickoff coverage. That's just not what their forte is. You know,
it takes a special kind of mentality and and and
and personality go down there and get that job done.
Speaker 4 (13:33):
And and one of the things that I can, and
I'm not going to eat up all the conversation, but
sure one of the one of the things that I can.
When I hear you say that, I'm I'm looking at
some players that I had played with who in my
mind to what you said, there's great, great, great football players,
you know, but never are they going to be able
(13:55):
to run down on the kickoff, like you know what
I'm saying, Like there's just no way they could make
the kickoff team. And that sounds crazy when you think
some of your best players cannot make the kickoff team
the punt return team.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
They just can't.
Speaker 4 (14:11):
Because for whatever the reason is that guy or those
guys who are not playing and they accept that role
like it it's their thing.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
They don't even there's no chance you can move them
out of there, no question. Yeah.
Speaker 6 (14:28):
And I tell those guys going down on kickoff listen, man,
you know we break this thing down to, you know,
the takeoff, the speed and red zone, the devoid zone,
the contact and finish own. I said, if you get
through that speed and red zone and you're not blocked,
get your head on the swivel. That's coming.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
I wish it. It told me that early.
Speaker 6 (14:50):
It's coming, so you better, you better find it because
you know they don't make mistakes, you know, and and
they're just not making it easy on you. But you know,
you're you're spot on, you know, finding those guys that
just love the game and play with a passion and
are selfless and very team oriented. Those are the types
of guys you know that I think we got on
those units. And I'm really fortunate to have a lot
(15:13):
of those guys that are excited for Saturday to get here.
Speaker 4 (15:16):
And it's bad that they don't get that. They don't
get the credit going forward because they do because it
is a big role. It's a huge role. It's huge.
It's huge in the game. And yet you know, unless
you're a returner or a kicker who's got some touchdowns,
kick some game winning shrevelle goals, put it in the
(15:37):
corner as if you're a punter, you're getting all that attention.
But man, there's some of those guys that are running
down that are that are putting their life on the line, basically.
Speaker 6 (15:48):
Our long snapper and short snapper. I said, listen, man,
I'm just canna be very upfront and honest with you
right now. Usually if they know your name, it's not
a good thing. You know, you have a bad stack.
He'll recognize you for the good one, bad one to
come out.
Speaker 5 (16:04):
Yeah, if you're anonymous, that that's a good thing in
this in that department.
Speaker 6 (16:08):
Yes, yeah, absolutely absolutely so.
Speaker 5 (16:11):
Coach I'm going to ask you a little bit about
your relationship with rich Rod. This is your your third
time with him. You you originally began coaching with him
in two thousand and seven at WU I Believe, and
then you you followed him to Jacksonville State. Uh, and
now you're back back home in Morgantown. What has consistently
drawn you back to Coach Rod and his style of play?
Speaker 6 (16:32):
You know what I got here the first time is
just his style of coaching. I was really impressed with.
You know, he just he has such a passion for
the game, loves to compete, and he doesn't flinch everybody.
You know, he treats all the players the same, and
he coaches with a passion and is aggressive with it
and and wants the best for these young men, but
(16:54):
also wants them to understand how to compete at a
high level. And you know, I thought it was going
to be easy to do. And then I got my
first head coaching opportunity, and you know, I learned this.
You know, coaching is kind of like teaching and stuff.
It's it's more of an extension of your personality.
Speaker 8 (17:12):
You know.
Speaker 6 (17:13):
I didn't say I really wanted to, you know, I
was trying to be like him, but there was a
lot of things that you know, I was always impressed
on just how how hard the players played for him
and their willingness to go out there and compete at
a high level and not flinch, and that's not easy
to do. And I was just I knew when he
(17:33):
got the job at Jacksonville it's something that I wanted
to be a part of and kind of get back,
you know, when that coaching family with him again. And
then obviously was blessed we had some success down there,
and you know, we were able to come back up
here to Morgantown.
Speaker 7 (17:48):
Now, now, prior to you know, going to Jacksonville, you
were actually the head coach here at the University of
Charleston and Charleston where we're based out. You know, I'm
a state guy, so I won't hold that.
Speaker 6 (17:59):
Against you, but I'm not gonna tell you my record.
Speaker 7 (18:04):
I don't even want to hear that, nor do I,
but you you've had you had tremendous success there as
far as you know, not only winning on the field.
You got I believe, forty plus guys in the NFL camp.
You had a couple of guys drafted, You had some
national rankings. You know, being at a Division two program
(18:25):
where you don't always have the resources and you certainly
always don't have the notoriety on you, what was sort
of the key to building.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
That program up?
Speaker 6 (18:35):
Well, one I had There's I worked with some really
good people and not just assistant coaches, but administrators and
you know Brent Stevens, doctor Stevens, the athletic director. There
is a phenomenal person to work for, and and and
and you know, both the presidents that I was there
with were great. They were committed to winning. And you know,
(18:56):
the thing about Charleston is it's it's an attractive place.
You know, the school one is, has got a great
academic reputation, but when you look at some of the
other schools maybe that you're competing with and recruiting, I mean,
you're in the state capitol. I mean you can have
some life and balance outside of football and school in
the city at Charleston, which you know was always attractive,
(19:18):
you know to young people that are going there. So
now now it's a little bit different time with the
poor I'm not sure I would have kept some of
those guys. Yeah, you know, success, but yeah, and you know,
I think some of the assistant coaches did a great
job of just evaluating some some guys out of high
school that maybe had the size and speed, but maybe
(19:39):
just weren't developed enough to get some of the bigger looks.
And you know, a lot of those guys that that
got drafted in the NFL or made its NFL camps,
a lot of them read shirt at Charleston, you know,
which you don't see anymore. But like I said, I
what a great experience I had there and the people
were tremendous.
Speaker 7 (19:56):
Yeah, and don't tell my state family, but I'm actually
an adjunct you see this year a little bit so yes,
And in less than a week you got guys got
your Mountaineers WV. And we're talking to Special Teams coordinator
WV you Pat Kirkley. We have you know, August thirty.
If you have your first game, Roberts Moore, So what
(20:18):
what are you looking for? What are what what are
the things you're looking for from uh far as in
that game? And what do you hope to accomplish?
Speaker 6 (20:26):
Yeah, you know, any any week one game and whatever
level you're at, you know, especially you know now with
with a number of new players that are going to
be playing here at w and you know, making the transition.
It's a it's a new scheme. In all three phases.
You want to go out and see see players execute
one at a high level. You know, try to eliminate
(20:46):
the mistakes, you know, the mental mistakes, but just watch them,
have them play fast and then really just compete and
and and you know, maybe the game plan doesn't need
to be huge. It just needs to be to the
point where those guys can go out there and you
never want to say, you know, not not not think
(21:07):
a whole lot, but because you got to that's football.
You've got to, you know, your heart in your head
got to meet halfway there.
Speaker 5 (21:13):
You can't just be all.
Speaker 6 (21:14):
Passion and no thought process. But just want to see
him go out there and play fast and if you
make a mistake, make it fast, and you know, live
you know, go play the next step.
Speaker 5 (21:23):
Yeah, so, coach, I have a question about your positions.
You're actually serving not just the position of special teams coordinator,
but it also lists you as a defensive assistant coach.
How difficult is that juggling those two positions at a
major school like WVU.
Speaker 6 (21:41):
Yeah, I mean it's I'm a defensive guy at Hart.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
You know, I was.
Speaker 6 (21:45):
I've been a coordinator for for a long time, and
you know, I'm not sure I was really good at it.
But you know, even as a player, I was a
corner and you know, that's kind of where my passion started.
So to still play a role on the defensive side,
especially now you know there's so many sub packages, not
just Nickolindine, but you know, some other stuff. So you know,
(22:07):
I've got a roll with that, which is exciting, but
it is a lot, you know, when you get into
some of these game weeks where you know, Monday, Tuesday,
Wednesday nights, they they become kind of early mornings for
the most part. And really fortunate that some of the
coaches here I work with with Special teams, Chris Herring
and Tucker Donatti are phenomenal, phenomenal, So we've got a
(22:30):
really good support staff and coaching staff, and but but
it's it's not easy a lot of it, especially when
you get later in the year and you're breaking down
a lot more games, a lot more plays that go
through it. It's a little more challenging.
Speaker 4 (22:44):
And an interesting thing that I guess I don't really
know how this and I should, but I don't know
how this necessarily works as a as a as a
dB coach, are you are you basically stuck on how
you're going to do your secondary based off of what
(23:05):
the decordinator is gonna tell you?
Speaker 2 (23:07):
Or can you know?
Speaker 4 (23:08):
Because I know when when in Minnesota when Floyd Peters
came in and Pete Carroll came in. They came in
and it was we're gonna blitz, We're gonna play man
the Man, and boom, that's it.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
You know, whether or not Pete.
Speaker 4 (23:22):
Had he I don't know if he had any control
in that or if they had conversation.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
But is there conversation.
Speaker 4 (23:29):
Of like how you want to play in the secondary,
how the backers are going to play, how the D
line's gonna play, Tell the folks how that really kind
of comes together.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
How do you develop that defense? Because it's it is
three different kind of parts of it.
Speaker 6 (23:42):
Absolutely. And I you know Zach Ally, you know who
I'd worked with for two years at Jacksonville State before
he went was the defensive coordinator at Oklahoma for a year.
You know, now we're back together here, you know at
West Virginia. He's he's got some ideas. But I think
the one thing that's great about him as he listens
and he understands we've all been doing this for quite
(24:03):
some time, and you know, he asked for the input. Now,
like you know this, there's certain defenses and calls that
you run that call for specific techniques, right. But at
the same time, the one thing you know, I'm really
passionate about on defenses, you don't want those players, especially
at corner, to be robots, you know, being a corner
(24:24):
and you're and whether you're playing pressman, off man or
zone coverage, you know, you know what you did the
prior to plays or three plays ago to set it
up when when you played pressman and you don't want
want to be handcuffed because of a call and say
I've got to do this specific technique, you know, because
that might not be your skill set or it might
not work against that, you know your opponent. You know,
(24:46):
it's like when you're a pass rusher. You don't want
someone to say, hey, every time you got to go
speed to power or you got to do a ghost rusher,
you know, club rip. You know, everybody's got a little
bit of different tools in their toolbox. So you want
the players to play fast and do what works for them.
But at the same time, you know, a squad corner
is a squad corner. He playing cover two, you know
what I mean. There's only so many things you can
(25:06):
do pre snap to disguise that. So, you know, I
think it's a little bit of just meeting halfway and
and he's he's tremendous at at you know, really suggesting
and saying, hey, we've got to do this in this situation.
But other than that, you know, couple the technique with
the down and distance and and you hope you educate
the players enough that they can do that on their own.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
All right, well, we're gonna let you go. I'll just
say this to the to the listeners.
Speaker 4 (25:33):
I hope that you can understand the complication, how complicated
all of this is. And and and I'm sure that
there's a whole lot of people who are listening and
have no idea what we said or what we talked about.
But that is the complication. That that is what football is.
It is at each level. It is just different. It's
just complicated. It can be difficult.
Speaker 5 (25:55):
And to serve two roles at a major university, that
that's that's a lot.
Speaker 7 (26:00):
Good luck, coach, Yes, best wishes to the Mountaineers this season.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
Thank you so much, coach.
Speaker 6 (26:05):
Thank you guys. I appreciate you, miss you and I
hope all as well. And thanks for having me on.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
Thanks for coming on.
Speaker 9 (26:10):
Can you have a good emaiing, Thanks you too.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
Take care all right, ladies and gentlemen, we shall be
right back and uh we'll be ready to go. All right,
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Now back to the conversation.
Speaker 4 (27:50):
All right, ladies and gentlemen, we are back and Hollis
Lewis will be introducing our next guests.
Speaker 7 (27:57):
All right, so we have another special guests on again.
Shout out to coach Pat Kirklin from WVUP. We have
now again. I might mess this up, doctor Swayin. So, yeah,
the assistant executive director for the WVSSAC AM I correct,
that is correct. Okay, So this is a I had
no chance that I'm glad you had. So this is
(28:20):
a new position. Previously, you were the principal at Saint
Albans High School. You're alma mater.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
So what attracted you to this position was very organic.
Speaker 10 (28:31):
It certainly wasn't on my radar or some vision board
or a trajectory of where I thought my professional career
would take me. But as I served in the capacity
of principal at St. Alban's High School last year from
twenty twenty four to twenty twenty five, I did have
the opportunity to serve on the wv ssac's Board of director. Yes,
I was very honored and privileged that our body of
(28:54):
principles in the member schools nominated me and I was
elected to that position. That position is one of several
principles each represented across the regions of our state where
we sit on the board of Directors to make decisions
even in the student appeal process. So I got to
see a lot of the backside and the inner workings
(29:14):
and meet some of the administrative staff at the Parkersburg
office understand those rules a little bit more. One who
is a mentor even through Kinnall County Schools with me
and my career is doctor Cindy Daniel, who previously served
as one of the assistant executive directors, and upon her retirement,
I began asking her questions about her position and what
(29:34):
it entailed, and when the opportunity presented itself, I thought, well,
let me see if maybe this is the next step
that is in God's plan for my life, and the
next step of serving our great state of West Virginia,
but also still being in the capacity of education and
serving young people and just truly what I've always been
passionate about, of encouraging young people to get involved in
(29:57):
school in something not just lots of activities, and we
do it. I mean, you see WVSSAC you think of
sports in our state tournaments, because that's what really you know,
gets a lot of the publicity as it should, but
we do. We sponsor robotics and band and we're looking
in the future to hopefully sanction and sponsor more activities
(30:20):
that fall into just co curricular and extracurricular even outside
the realm of sports.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
So what specifically would your position entail.
Speaker 10 (30:29):
I'm one of two assistant excuse me, three assistant executive directors.
Two of us, mister Chris Wells and I are new
to the staff. Mister Dan Comer had previously and still
serves as assistant executive director. We're each assigned certain sports
where we are in care of helping to facilitate and
run those state tournaments. We meet with coaching committees from
(30:53):
said sports. We're that liaison between that sport and the
clinicians of that sport to support not just coaches and
our principals at our member schools over those sports, but
also officials. So my assigned sports are cheer, volleyball, swim,
and tennis. Mister Wells is over basketball and football and
(31:16):
baseball also banned. Mister Dan Comer is over cross country soccer, wrestling,
and track. And mister Bankston, Jason Bankston. He is our
new director of compliance. It's a new position that was
added completely when mister Ryan assumed the position of executive director,
and he is going to be over golf and softball.
(31:38):
So we're spread out in that way.
Speaker 4 (31:40):
Have you found what is the challenging piece of your
particular role? Have you kind of already discovered what that
is and how that's going.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
To work for you?
Speaker 10 (31:52):
At this point in time, it's not so much challenging
as it is just exciting because I'm learning my role
and learning wow, what has been done perfectly that We're
just going to keep going and grow, what could be new,
what could be more efficient? So I'm just in this
learning phase and this exciting phase of just taking on
just the challenge of learning. You know, not necessarily anything
(32:15):
has I can't pinpoint one thing that's been challenging. Of course,
I did just serve five years as a building level
high school, so you.
Speaker 4 (32:24):
You kind of already have a background of it anyway,
a little bit of background from it anyway, Well.
Speaker 10 (32:29):
Certainly I'm blessed that I've had a lot of perspectives
that I do think is going to lend itself to
hopefully success in the position, you know, as a student
athlete myself. When I served as teacher a Capital high school,
when the eight years I was there, I was able
to coach the sports that i'd played in high school soccer, basketball, tennis.
(32:50):
Of course, married to a pretty good coach, y legendary.
And then of course being an assistant principal and a
building principle, you know, supervising and supporting coaches, supervising games
and all the athletics and extracurricular activities. And of course
I'm blessed to have three children of our own and
(33:12):
they are all involved in athletics and extra curricula.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
Y'all got it covered. So wear lots of hats, so
sports mom too. And that's and that's that's my question
right there.
Speaker 5 (33:23):
I mean, I'm amazed when I see all the things
that you're doing now now you are still actively principal.
Speaker 10 (33:28):
That is incorrect. This is a full time job again.
It will, I'm sure, get more challenging.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
Position for this one.
Speaker 8 (33:38):
It was.
Speaker 10 (33:38):
It was very bittersweet. I served Connall County Schools for
twenty one years in the multiple roles that led me
to this point. But it is a unique opportunity, and
again I felt, after much prayer and consideration, that it
was the next step in God's plan to continue to
be able to serve our great state and our students
and in our schools in a broader capacity. So, oh, yes,
(34:00):
I did have to resign from the principal. That's high
school that had to be tiped in order to take
on this position.
Speaker 5 (34:06):
Yeah, and you also, and I don't know if you've
mentioned this already, I may have missed it, were you
VP of the Mountain State Athletic Conference Board of Control?
What would what would that position that that that kind
of intrigued me when a board of control, it just
sounded really like strong, Like what was that about.
Speaker 10 (34:23):
The Mountain State Athletic Conference encompasses a lot of Kenaal
County schools, but also Cable County and Putnam County schools
predominantly three A four A schools, so your larger schools.
It's been a very competitive athletic conference historical in the
state of West Virginia. And they have a board of
control and it's very almost like a microcosm of the
(34:46):
wv s SAC. But it just provides that opportunity for
schools to have that interscholastic competition, provide m SAC tournaments,
provide officials for said sports through their board of organization
as a constitution and bylaws, you know, and it's just
another way to support again that microcosm of an athletic
(35:07):
conference within our state. And I was vice president before
again having to resigned from principalship moving on to the WVSSAC,
I couldn't continue still serving.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
I'm sure that leads me to my question.
Speaker 7 (35:22):
As far as I know, last year when they made
the four A divisions, particularly in football, there was a
lot of disagreements about the calculation and how they did
it and everything like that. But one of the questions
that I had is that I know last year, and
I believe this year too, in the MSAC they still
had far as a mix of Quad A and three
(35:45):
A schools. So in the future would that be worked
out where you're going to have just single conference, single
level conferences or would it continue.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
Just to be a mix.
Speaker 10 (35:57):
As I was leaving, of course, their last meeting was
July and to August that may have made some different decisions,
but what we were trying to do to uphold the conference,
maintain the conference so that it could maybe even grow
and include more three A and four A schools. In fact,
over the end of the last school year, Parkersburg South
(36:18):
Rejoin joined US, so that was another four A school
but they were going to continue to build the schedules
for predominantly three A schools playing three A four A
schools playing four A schools, but at least one crossover
game or two crossover games within the schedule. Prior to
even the change in classifications. They the MSAC did make
(36:40):
the decision to reduce the number of total conference games
since the membership had declined a little bit, but they're
trying to be very flexible to uphold the conference in
order to just protect just the wonderful things that it
can provide for those schools in that region, in that area.
Speaker 7 (36:59):
So you projected like that's gonna be something that's going
to be maintained, you think, even though there are different classifications.
Speaker 10 (37:05):
That was the discussion and that was the collaboration that
was really taking place among the principals and athletic directors
of those member schools in the MSAC to do what
they can to be flexible and keep it together moving forward.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
And so in the four A and three A, I
know that there's some crossover.
Speaker 4 (37:26):
Is there a way to sort of I'll say, protect
a three A school from a four A school that
they just you know, the four A is just really
a good team and maybe they just try to schedule
a game. Is there any way be cause I think
to me, I think safety in those situations? Do you
(37:49):
all play a role in trying to determine like should
this team be playing this team? Like could a four
A team play a two A team.
Speaker 10 (37:58):
We don't have any contraction I over in terms of
what a school, who a school wants to schedule as
far as four A versus three A in football, basketball, volleyball, softball,
whatever sportver they be. You know, we don't govern the
coaches and decisions of what other conference to maybe be
a part of. As you know, there's the MSAC conference,
(38:20):
there's the Cardinal Conference. You know, it is up to
the individual principal, athletic director and coach of whatever said
sport to determine their schedule and who they want to play.
One benefit of being part of the MSAC is working
together to schedule games that would be better aligned to
make sure you know, safety and success happens, you know,
(38:43):
with both the three A and four A schools that
are involved.
Speaker 7 (38:46):
Okay, yeah, and I just had a question to it
just because you got sports like volleyball, tennis, different sports
like a sports that are more that our girls are playing.
How do we do a better job of bringing more
light and publicity to girls sports, particularly in high school.
Speaker 10 (39:08):
Well, I think it's just making sure that you provide
those opportunities and even if a school has a sport.
Middle schools, I think is a important talking piece with this,
because not all the state level commissions that you know,
through our National Federation of High School Sports that's kind
of our governing body of all our state commissions. Even Kentucky,
(39:28):
for example, they don't govern their middle school sports. We
do in West Virginia. So that's a good starting point.
For example, if a volleyball team hasn't always been at
a middle school, how can you work with even elementary
schools youth leagues and say let's start a girl's volleyball league.
I know recently in St. Albans A girl's volleyball league
(39:49):
was started and that gained interest in that sport that is,
you know, more exclusive to just our females, but also
just just introducing girls to other sports. It's exciting. Our
golf invitational or girls golf Invitational cross just right around
the corner, and we have increased in participation. So just
maybe offering more invitationals with some of the sports we
(40:12):
Lacrosse is a sport that's up and coming on both
the girls and the boys side. You hear a lot
more about it, and what's great about that is the
opportunity it provides. When you choose to become you know,
sanctioned or to become a part of the WVS SAC.
You have to accept, you know, of course the rules.
And one thing that's unique about lacrosse right now because
(40:34):
of again just wanting girls to participate guys to participate
in the new sport, is the teams that are fielded
are from different areas schools, So you have to get
enough participation in enough individual schools to really sanction that sport.
Speaker 2 (40:50):
One of the things that and I'm curious about what
you think about this.
Speaker 4 (40:56):
The city of South Charleston, like, you know, we we
sponsor a lot of different teams in the youth sports.
Speaker 2 (41:04):
But one of the things that we I think that
we're looking at is.
Speaker 4 (41:10):
Certain sports football specifically, a lot of we're not getting
a lot of participation in that.
Speaker 2 (41:16):
So the more sports you have, the more you spread
out kids to to other to another sport.
Speaker 4 (41:25):
Is there any way that you all could see how
the how you would balance that at whether it be
at the high school level, middle school level, like to
make sure that we that you don't run out of
kids in a specific sport. And I don't know if
that's like saying hurt it, how to schedule it like
without hurting another sport?
Speaker 10 (41:46):
I guess I think just reflecting on when sports take
place in sports seasons, I mean, I think we all
can maybe remember here when girls and boys basketball were
not in the same season. Girls basketball was a sport,
boys BA was a winter sport, and then they moved
them together. And I think with volleyball then being in
the fall and being a main fall sport for females,
(42:08):
then sometimes then travel volleyball starts in the winter, and
maybe some of those girls instead of playing basketball or
playing volleyball. And that's not to say that that shouldn't happen.
But it just take you to look at when things happen,
when those opportunities are, you know, and if they are
spread out, then then girls. If that's what we're focused
on here in the conversation. For the point of the question,
don't have to choose between sports. I'll give you kind
(42:32):
of a unique example that you know certainly is exciting
flag football for females. Yeah, I think it has been
talked about and certainly when would you offer that? And
in a roundtable discussion at our conference, just as our
new hires, myself included, we were able to go at
(42:53):
the very end of June to Chicago to our NFHS
National Conference, and at one of the roundtable discussions, just
beating the minds of the different assistant executive directors representing
the other states all across the nation, we were talking
about flag football, and that was my question, when do
you offer that sport? You know, I would have absolutely
loved to pawn and you know, but would have had
(43:14):
to choose between soccer and flag football, or basketball and
flag football, or tennis and flag football, or maybe I
could balance both of those. They said they've had the
most success offering it in the spring, and surprisingly, but
maybe not so surprisingly in my opinion, a lot of
your cheerleaders and the especially those that are on the
sideline at those football games, since that is they're seeing
(43:37):
new athletes to this new sport because they have that
opportunity to do that in the spring, where a lot
of the girls that have maybe already taken to soccer
or volleyball or basketball maybe aren't as interested in trying
another sport in the spring. So what's been encouraging about
that moving forward is you're getting newer athletes, athletes that
(44:00):
haven't done another kind of predominant girls sports. So it
is adding and not detracting from the other sports opportunities
that are out there. So that's exciting.
Speaker 7 (44:09):
See, I would I would have thought you had the
girls flag football just during football season, so you play
like you play like the girls game. You can play
like the football game, you know.
Speaker 4 (44:18):
And and well and I think like for us in
you sports, I think we could, we could, we could
do that. But I to me, like, I think I
want them to have a season to where there's nothing
a parent that so the parent doesn't have to try
to split what game they're.
Speaker 2 (44:39):
Going to and I think with travel sports that that's
kind of probably travel sports is really an issue.
Speaker 7 (44:47):
And that's kind of the question that I had to
build on that is that being a sanctioned body. And
to your point, I've been in other states where again
middle school is not sanctioned, it's just high school.
Speaker 2 (44:58):
West Virginia is unique where we sank down to middle school.
Speaker 7 (45:01):
So with the peripheration of travel sports, what sort of
the future that you've guys kind of been discussing that
you can disclose to us around balancing that sanctioning within
the setting of the school, but also acknowledging that travel
sports are here.
Speaker 10 (45:18):
Well, we absolutely want to promote education based athletics. I mean,
that's what we stand for.
Speaker 6 (45:22):
I like that.
Speaker 2 (45:23):
I like that terminology.
Speaker 10 (45:24):
That is actually a campaign that is just being reaffirmed
by our national Federation and it's called Protect the Purpose
and we're going to do some more things with that
as we continue this year. And what's exciting too, just
to hit on that just a little bit, is we're
getting ready to celebrate one hundred years of being aligned
with our national Federation. The WVSSAC has been in cooperation
(45:47):
with NFHS for one hundred years this year, systems nineteen
twenty five. So protect The purpose is just reminding everybody
that you know, nationwide we have over eight million kids
involved in education based activities, predominantly sports, but also those
co curricular activities band, robotics, speech and debate in other places,
you know, show a choir, whatever it may be. But
(46:09):
seven percent do that in college and only two percent
get that scholarship. So it's really about, hey, we're working
with cooperation citizenship building our leaders of tomorrow that they
get that experience so that it can carry them into
whatever they choose to do. Get getting back to your question,
how we navigate that in conjunction with travel sports. We
(46:31):
certainly want students and student athletes in particular to develop,
and if travel sports is a part of that development,
that can be a great thing. So in order for
them to coexist, we want to still promote, hey, rep
your school be a part of education based Yeah. Yeah,
but at the same time make sure that you know
(46:53):
we again carefully place when seasons are and understand and
communicate clearly those rules about non participation sports. I guess
I'll use my daughter as an example because that's easy.
She's a freshman at night he high school. She participates
in multiple sports right now, her sport of choice in
her season which is her favorite soccer. She does have
(47:15):
a goal of playing that after high school at the
college level, and in communicating that to her father and I,
we chose to allow her to be participating in a
travel club club team WVFC, and it's been wonders for
her development. And it happened, of course, in the off
(47:35):
season of the school based soccer team, and so she's
still allowed to be a part of that team, but
she can't participate again in that team until the completion
of her established school season. And I think just per community,
which it does, it coincides with when travel soccer starts
back up as far as they're competitions in the spring.
(47:56):
But teaching and educating our coaches are our principles or
coaches or athletic directors, and so that they can then
share that communication and hopefully we can continue to share
more communication with parents in putting our information in more
easily accessible pockets of whether it be social media or website,
and just again continue to make that better so they
(48:18):
understand they can coexist and it does benefit your kids
to do both, and that they can do both, and
that's okay. You don't have to make that choice.
Speaker 7 (48:27):
So we are not going to let you leave without
asking one question about that transfer rule. So we have
an expert in the room. We got somebody, so we
even had a little discussion about it last week as
far as how many transfer because it seems to be
just a little bit of confusing left with it. So
how many transfers can you have? Can you transfer coming
(48:49):
from middle school to high school? And then are you
alloted another one or is it just one total?
Speaker 2 (48:55):
Now it is one total, So just to be clear,
so that transfer.
Speaker 7 (49:00):
Like if you were supposed to go to John as GW,
you go from John Abs the capitol, that counts as
a transfer, correct, okay.
Speaker 10 (49:06):
And even coming out of middle school, it used to
be that you could go to whatever high school you
wanted to go to used to be and then if
you were unhappy or you just said, hey, you know again,
I'll use my daughter Isabella. Let's say I'm still the
principal at Saint Albans High School. So she went to
comm school with mom. We live in Nitro, that's her
feeder area. She went to aj Middle School, she should
go to Nitro High School. She decided she wanted to
(49:30):
go to Saint Albans, that's fine. If she transfers back
to Nitro. This is as a ninth grader. If she
transfers back to Nitro High School, transfers to her home school,
she has to sit through sixty five because her one
transfer choice was eighth Green going into ninth grade. And
that's sometimes still the heart of the confusion and our
Rules Clinics Tour and our Regional Principal Tour because mister
(49:53):
Ryan and our assistant executive directors, we go out in
our clinicians and we do coaching clinics, and we do
informational meetings for principles all across the state.
Speaker 2 (50:03):
Are there any of those sort of clinics for parents?
Speaker 6 (50:06):
No?
Speaker 2 (50:07):
Okay, is that something that could possibly just down the
line in the future.
Speaker 10 (50:11):
I'm not gonna say it's impossible, certainly, you know, I'm
very grateful to mister Wayne Ryan, who again selected me
for this position, is doing a great job, and I
think has a great vision for continuing to keep its
strength and also move it forward. So I'm certainly not
going to speak on his behalf or say no but
our primary goal was to make sure that our principals
(50:33):
are educated as well as our coaches and athletic administrators,
so then they can be that liaison parents because ideally
they're more accessible to parents. Yes, sure, and it's their
school and their community, and they can deliver that message
to you know again who's right there in their backyard
where it's you know what happens sometimes in the summer
(50:55):
if the doors of the school aren't open and maybe
you can't have that conversation with that principle or that
the led director, then you don't know where to turn.
Speaker 7 (51:04):
Yeah, So just to be clear, so just you get
one transfersal with the trans So that's whether you're in
high school currently now you go somewhere else, or you're
in middle school and then you're going to your you're
out of district school. And where can people, parents, individuals
get more information about the wv S SAC rules, different
things of that nature.
Speaker 10 (51:24):
W v S SAC dot org or website. You can
just google the letters and it pops right up. We
are working actually even today we're having meetings about how
to improve the functionality and accessibility of our website and
the content that we put on our website so it
can be that hub not just for our principals and
coaches and officials and athletic administrators, but also parents. So
(51:48):
we do hope in the future. We've been working really
hard out of the office and you'll see these coming
out soon. For one pagers on those RULs such as
the transfer rule. There will be a one pager on ANIL,
There'll be a one pager on flex days. There will
be a one pager on what I talked about a
little bit with nonschool participation, your travel, your club, your
(52:10):
all star participation, and how that works with not against
your participants, summary education based athletics, repping, your team, being
a part of your school in your athletics or your
activities you know, band, robotics or otherwise. So we're working
to continue to get the message out so that it's
clear to all our stakeholders.
Speaker 4 (52:31):
I'm going to I'm going to say this as we
as we kind of close it up. We've had this
conversation before, and I'm just talking about football and particularly Okay,
because we've had I know people who do travel football,
and there was a conversation about wanting to play travel
(52:52):
football and also still play school ball, whether it be
high school or middle school. I think that that's something
that should never be able to happen as a as
a football player for life and knowing the issues that
come with it, like we're setting our kids. We're setting
(53:14):
kids up for a really bad future with all the contact.
So if I would say that just to get it
out and say, football is not the one you can
play on Thursday and then come back play it on
Saturday and play.
Speaker 2 (53:30):
Four games or three games on Saturday, travel football is
not in its true.
Speaker 4 (53:37):
Yes, And to me, I just think that in that conversation,
I think you have to realize you have to because
there's not a way to really look at youth or
even maybe high school.
Speaker 2 (53:48):
You have to look long term and then look what
all of that head trauma is coming with the athlete.
Speaker 10 (53:58):
And that can even speak in multiple sports, but certainly
football being as unique as it is in the physicality
of the sport and what it takes in the level
of competition that you have if it's played in its
true form as you noted, But what's specific to our
non school participation rule for team sports and even individual sports,
but especially our team sports, is you cannot play that
(54:19):
travel sport during the established sports season and still be
eligible to play for your travel team and or your
school team. So again, going back to my daughter as example,
while she is participating and practicing, she's at practice right now,
you know what, She's practicing and participating for Nitro High
School and representing her school as a part of that
(54:40):
that interscholastic team. She cannot practice, she cannot compete. She
cannot go on a weekend and play for that travel
soccer team during her school sports season, and that would
extend to whatever sport that is, including travel football. All right, thanks,
(55:00):
shame the opportunity, nice speaking with you.
Speaker 5 (55:03):
Thank you very much.
Speaker 4 (55:04):
All Right, ladies and gentlemen, we hope you enjoyed the
show and we will be back again next week.
Speaker 3 (55:09):
Let's Talk with Carl Lee as presented by Attorney Frank
Walker and the all new historic Choyr Diner. Come in
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(55:29):
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with Carl Lee
Yeah, you gotta work. You gotta work, Ruy Shine, it's
mine gotta show. Everybody is my sign you gotta work,
right Shine. Another mind trying to die today line don't tell.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
You gotta work.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Welcome to Let's Talk with Carl Lee and frequent guest
hosts Hollis Lewis and Lisa Odie, where sports culture and
community intersect. Join the crew as they dive into engaging
conversations with guests from all walks of the sports life.
Let's Talk as proudly presented by Attorney Frank Walker, Real Talk,
Real Experience, Real Results, Frank Walker Law dot com and
(00:43):
by the all new historic Choyer Diner in downtown Charleston,
one line at Choyerdner dot com. Let the conversation begin
on Let's Talk.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
All right, ladies and gentlemen.
Speaker 4 (00:55):
This is Carl Lee with Let's Talk, and we have
a I have my co host Hollis Lewis, Hello, Hello,
and my other co host Lisa Odi.
Speaker 5 (01:07):
Hello.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
And Lisa Odi.
Speaker 4 (01:09):
Has brought us a guest knowing and she's going to
introduce and we will Q and a M.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Yes.
Speaker 5 (01:14):
So we're excited about this guest tonight. Now that we're
only what four or five sleeps away from college football
kicking off. I like it right right, so our guest tonight.
He has quite an extensive resume. I'm going to give
you a little bit of background before I introduce him,
But he this year is the first year special teams
coordinator and defensive assistant coach to Rich Rod in Morgantown.
(01:36):
Just last year and in twenty twenty four, he was
the coordinator at Jacksonville State. I'm going to give you
some information about that that will kind of blow your mind.
But his special teams ranked number two in Conference USA
kickoff returns, kick return defense, net punting punt returns, and
punt return defense. Twenty twenty three, the game Cocks averaged
(01:59):
six Listen to this, sixty two point one yards per
kickoff with thirty nine touchbacks. Nice jack jack State's defense
led Conference USA and sacks I believe the same year
twenty twenty three, pack can I said his name, He
can correct me if I'm wrong. They racked up thirty
nine sacks in thirteen games, resulting in two hundred and
(02:19):
ninety one lost yards. His resume also includes ten years
of head coaching experience at the University of Charleston, where
in twenty fifteen his football team finished ten and one,
ranked number fifteen in the nation after earning a spot
in the NCAA Division Two playoffs. He's a native of Akron, Ohio,
and earned degrees from Muskingen University and played collegiate ball there.
(02:44):
So welcome our special guest tonight, Coach pack Kirkland.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Hey, Coachland, Good, how are you, coach?
Speaker 6 (02:52):
I'm doing great to hear from you, guys. How's everything going.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Oh, it's moving, We're keeping it moving.
Speaker 4 (03:00):
I want to My first question is, Okay, So when
I'm hearing all of this that that least is talking
about of your achievements, I go right straight to the
special teams thing, because one most folks don't understand the
relevance and how important special teams are.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
And I'm trying to figure out, like I'm.
Speaker 4 (03:22):
Listening to all these acculades that you have there, and
I'm trying to figure out, like, how do you what
is what is it that you're looking for when you
start looking for a guy who's going to run down
on kickoffs or any of that kind of stuff, Because
how do you what are you trying to do?
Speaker 2 (03:38):
What do you who are you, How are.
Speaker 4 (03:39):
You trying to put this group together that they can
do this and achieve these kinds of honors.
Speaker 6 (03:47):
Yeah, well, I think the first of ball is getting
those guys buying in on how big of the role
special teams plays in a game. So you know, when
you know, we looked at all of West Virginia University's
games last year and broke them down and you know,
counted the number of snaps and we found out really
special teams with anywhere nineteen to twenty two percent of
snaps or some form of a special team to play.
(04:08):
And when you start talking to two young people and
guys on the team about that and the role that
that plays, they understand the importance of it. And and
you know, then you start bringing up game tape and
seeing the difference and the opportunities that they had maybe
even last year to you know, do some things and
and and change the course of the game. And you know,
obviously now guys also want to create some value for themselves.
(04:31):
And you know, Carl, you know, playing at the next level,
if you're not out the quarterback or you know, an
offense or defensive lineman or that that first round draft,
you're on a special teams, right, and so they know
it's also the opportunity to create some value for themselves.
So you know, we're I'm blessed to work for a
head coach that that you know, we spend a lot
of time on it, and you know, we want to
(04:52):
make sure we put the guys that fit the role
that we're asking to play. From the from the special
team standpoint, there used.
Speaker 4 (05:01):
To be a kind of a stereotype of the type
of player who plays special teams. And I and I
was a I was a gunner on the punt team.
I was an R three on the kickoff team my
entire career in Minnesota. So I and I hated it.
But but but it was something that you know, you
(05:23):
couldn't you know, I couldn't say, well, I don't want
to I don't want to do this, you know, And
then you can't say, well, I'm not gonna do it
hard because because you're gonna get knocked out. And I
had those experiences of running down and trying to figure
out who's blocking me, and I got I got blindsided
a few times, and I was like, okay, so I
I understand too. The film work of trying to figure
(05:46):
out who's that guy that's going to be coming to
hit you?
Speaker 6 (05:50):
You know, so.
Speaker 4 (05:53):
You you you How do you hype the kids to
get them to say, like, okay, and I get it,
they're not playing off to not playing defense general special teams.
What is it that motivate What is it that you
use to kind of really truly motivate them to want
to be the best of anybody else's kickoff team or
kickoff return team or punt cover team. What what is
(06:14):
it that you use to get them How do you
sell them on that, because I think I think that's
a that's an amazing feat if you're able to do that.
Speaker 6 (06:23):
Yeah, and I'm with you. It definitely takes a you know,
a special person with mentality and the accountability to to
you know, we call them teamers here, guys that play
a big role on special teams and maybe not as
big of a role on offense or defense, but it's
guys that are bought into one. They love to compete,
and there's probably a mentality that is a little bit
(06:45):
different because like you said, I'm still you can scheme
up kickoff all you want it. Definitely, the personnel you've
got on that unit, and I am all in on
that finding the right guys that you know, like you
are fearless and want to come pete and play at
a high level and aren't afraid of contact. You know,
that's for sure, and and you know that's that takes
(07:07):
some time. That's probably one of our biggest challenges when
we came in in January and then got in the
spring ball was just you know, trying to evaluate talent,
not just you know, at position specific stuff on offense
or defense, but guys that fit the mentality and we
could plug and play in some of those roles on
special teams. But you know, I draw from a lot
of guys that have amazing NFL careers because of their
(07:31):
roles they play on special teams. And I said, hey,
we're all not going to be first round, second round
draft picks. But you know these are roles now that
that you know NFL, you know scouts and coaches are
looking for and this is what they want to see.
And not just that, but if you got the right guys,
they just want to go out there and compete. At
the end of the day, we're all working hard and
you want to get on the field, and you know,
(07:53):
you want those guys that, regardless of what it is,
any opportunity to see playing time, they're going to take
advantage of it.
Speaker 5 (08:00):
Yeah, So coach, I wanted to just kind of touch on.
I saw that you had an interview with MSN about
a week ago and you mentioned wanting competition at all
of your specialist positions. Have you finally settled on your
starting punter and field goal kicker for the season or
is it still something you're working through.
Speaker 6 (08:21):
We're closer, you know, right now. We got a returning
starter in Ali Straw who's from Melbourne, Australia. He was
a starter last year. He's doing some different things for
us this here as far as what they asked from
a year ago. He's someone that's got a very unique
skill set. He can do all the different unique style
(08:41):
kicks and punts that that teams are doing now. So
he's definitely as merged as a leader in that specialist room,
and you know, he's kind of taken over that, you know,
definitely the role as that starting punter. And we got
some other guys that are very capable, but you know,
Ali's a senior and he's a proven compet editor and
leader and done a great job. The other ones we're
(09:03):
still we're still working on. You know, I think we're
going to head right up into it with it. We
had a couple of guys that are very capable, and
you know, thank goodness, we still got a couple more
days to evaluate. And that's not because I don't think
any of them are worthy of It's just we're blessed
to have a couple of guys that we feel good about.
Speaker 7 (09:25):
Coaches is Hollis Now, I just want to get into
like the mindset of a special teams coordinator, because I
think the novice fan may not understand sort of the
duplicity that happens because you have to not only approach
it from a defensive standpoint, you need to approach it
from an offensive standpoint. And at the same time you
(09:46):
want to sort of, you know, squash mistakes, which is
glaring from the special team. So just managing those different
perspectives and the various teams, because.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
It's not just you're not just coaching office.
Speaker 7 (09:58):
You have to punt return, the punt team, the kickoff team,
you know, the field goals, so everything that you do count.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
So how do you how do you manage.
Speaker 6 (10:07):
All that well, we've we've got a lot of good
guys that that I work with here on special teams
and that are a big, big help with that. You know,
some of the stuff that people you know, they always
talk about the kicker, the punt returner, the kick returner,
you know, that's a piece of it. But finding the
guys that can block, protect, run down, cover kicks, do
(10:30):
all those things as a really big part of it,
because especially you know, you go into Big twelve play,
we're going to see some pretty dynamic you know, returners
on kickoff and punt return and equally, you know they're
going to have guys everybody's putting their best athletes now
to try to come after kicks and block kicks. So,
you know, our goal one is is to be diverse
(10:51):
enough in the kicking game that we're not predictable. And
you've got to be careful, especially early on in the season.
You don't want to have so much in that the
kids can't execute at a high level. And that's important.
But you know, really what we're we'll do early well,
we'll try to keep it somewhat simple, you know, early
and and keep building on that as the season goes on.
(11:14):
You know a lot of that's just doing a great
job of self scouting. You know what did you do
last week that teams may pick up on? And you
know what can we what rakles can we throw in
week to week to help us out nice.
Speaker 4 (11:25):
One of the other things that that I think about
when I when I think about special teams is the
the excitement that comes with let's say the kickoff, the
initial kickoff and the players who are those kind of
guys that are are your I guess you can almost
(11:46):
call them hype guys that you just can automatically count
on those kind of guys. Do you do you purposely
press them to do that or I know that they'll
do it on their own. But is there a place
where you want that you want to get in front
of that guy, talk to him and say, come on,
we gotta go.
Speaker 6 (12:06):
We got it?
Speaker 4 (12:06):
You know you you want to get him going so
that you know he's going to go crazy. Do you
have those types of guys that you that you kind
of push to get crazy and they'll do it for you?
Speaker 6 (12:20):
Like Carl, Absolutely No, he's spot on. You can tell
this guy that that that gets it, because those are
the guys you're looking for and you hope on your team.
You don't have to look too hard to find these guys,
you know, because one that they are a big personality
in your program. They have a passion for football and
(12:43):
you don't have to give them a pep talk to
get them ready to go. But you love doing it
because they get you fired up as well. And we've
got some guys that you know are ready for Saturday
and just to go down there and get after it.
You know, I'm hoping that you know, we got kickoff
off first, and we go down there and set the
tempo and and you know, get the crowd involved early
(13:03):
because you know, those guys they've they've worked hard, and
I think we've got a good unit, some guys that uh,
you know, really care about w football and and and
have a passion for it. But it does take a
different mentality. It's not for everyone, right, you know, we
got some really good football players on this team, and
I'm not saying names, but they wouldn't be good on
(13:24):
kickoff coverage. That's just not what their forte is. You know,
it takes a special kind of mentality and and and
and personality go down there and get that job done.
Speaker 4 (13:33):
And and one of the things that I can, and
I'm not going to eat up all the conversation, but
sure one of the one of the things that I can.
When I hear you say that, I'm I'm looking at
some players that I had played with who in my
mind to what you said, there's great, great, great football players,
you know, but never are they going to be able
(13:55):
to run down on the kickoff, like you know what
I'm saying, Like there's just no way they could make
the kickoff team. And that sounds crazy when you think
some of your best players cannot make the kickoff team
the punt return team.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
They just can't.
Speaker 4 (14:11):
Because for whatever the reason is that guy or those
guys who are not playing and they accept that role
like it it's their thing.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
They don't even there's no chance you can move them
out of there, no question. Yeah.
Speaker 6 (14:28):
And I tell those guys going down on kickoff listen, man,
you know we break this thing down to, you know,
the takeoff, the speed and red zone, the devoid zone,
the contact and finish own. I said, if you get
through that speed and red zone and you're not blocked,
get your head on the swivel. That's coming.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
I wish it. It told me that early.
Speaker 6 (14:50):
It's coming, so you better, you better find it because
you know they don't make mistakes, you know, and and
they're just not making it easy on you. But you know,
you're you're spot on, you know, finding those guys that
just love the game and play with a passion and
are selfless and very team oriented. Those are the types
of guys you know that I think we got on
those units. And I'm really fortunate to have a lot
(15:13):
of those guys that are excited for Saturday to get here.
Speaker 4 (15:16):
And it's bad that they don't get that. They don't
get the credit going forward because they do because it
is a big role. It's a huge role. It's huge.
It's huge in the game. And yet you know, unless
you're a returner or a kicker who's got some touchdowns,
kick some game winning shrevelle goals, put it in the
(15:37):
corner as if you're a punter, you're getting all that attention.
But man, there's some of those guys that are running
down that are that are putting their life on the line, basically.
Speaker 6 (15:48):
Our long snapper and short snapper. I said, listen, man,
I'm just canna be very upfront and honest with you
right now. Usually if they know your name, it's not
a good thing. You know, you have a bad stack.
He'll recognize you for the good one, bad one to
come out.
Speaker 5 (16:04):
Yeah, if you're anonymous, that that's a good thing in
this in that department.
Speaker 6 (16:08):
Yes, yeah, absolutely absolutely so.
Speaker 5 (16:11):
Coach I'm going to ask you a little bit about
your relationship with rich Rod. This is your your third
time with him. You you originally began coaching with him
in two thousand and seven at WU I Believe, and
then you you followed him to Jacksonville State. Uh, and
now you're back back home in Morgantown. What has consistently
drawn you back to Coach Rod and his style of play?
Speaker 6 (16:32):
You know what I got here the first time is
just his style of coaching. I was really impressed with.
You know, he just he has such a passion for
the game, loves to compete, and he doesn't flinch everybody.
You know, he treats all the players the same, and
he coaches with a passion and is aggressive with it
and and wants the best for these young men, but
(16:54):
also wants them to understand how to compete at a
high level. And you know, I thought it was going
to be easy to do. And then I got my
first head coaching opportunity, and you know, I learned this.
You know, coaching is kind of like teaching and stuff.
It's it's more of an extension of your personality.
Speaker 8 (17:12):
You know.
Speaker 6 (17:13):
I didn't say I really wanted to, you know, I
was trying to be like him, but there was a
lot of things that you know, I was always impressed
on just how how hard the players played for him
and their willingness to go out there and compete at
a high level and not flinch, and that's not easy
to do. And I was just I knew when he
(17:33):
got the job at Jacksonville it's something that I wanted
to be a part of and kind of get back,
you know, when that coaching family with him again. And
then obviously was blessed we had some success down there,
and you know, we were able to come back up
here to Morgantown.
Speaker 7 (17:48):
Now, now, prior to you know, going to Jacksonville, you
were actually the head coach here at the University of
Charleston and Charleston where we're based out. You know, I'm
a state guy, so I won't hold that.
Speaker 6 (17:59):
Against you, but I'm not gonna tell you my record.
Speaker 7 (18:04):
I don't even want to hear that, nor do I,
but you you've had you had tremendous success there as
far as you know, not only winning on the field.
You got I believe, forty plus guys in the NFL camp.
You had a couple of guys drafted, You had some
national rankings. You know, being at a Division two program
(18:25):
where you don't always have the resources and you certainly
always don't have the notoriety on you, what was sort
of the key to building.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
That program up?
Speaker 6 (18:35):
Well, one I had There's I worked with some really
good people and not just assistant coaches, but administrators and
you know Brent Stevens, doctor Stevens, the athletic director. There
is a phenomenal person to work for, and and and
and you know, both the presidents that I was there
with were great. They were committed to winning. And you know,
(18:56):
the thing about Charleston is it's it's an attractive place.
You know, the school one is, has got a great
academic reputation, but when you look at some of the
other schools maybe that you're competing with and recruiting, I mean,
you're in the state capitol. I mean you can have
some life and balance outside of football and school in
the city at Charleston, which you know was always attractive,
(19:18):
you know to young people that are going there. So
now now it's a little bit different time with the
poor I'm not sure I would have kept some of
those guys. Yeah, you know, success, but yeah, and you know,
I think some of the assistant coaches did a great
job of just evaluating some some guys out of high
school that maybe had the size and speed, but maybe
(19:39):
just weren't developed enough to get some of the bigger looks.
And you know, a lot of those guys that that
got drafted in the NFL or made its NFL camps,
a lot of them read shirt at Charleston, you know,
which you don't see anymore. But like I said, I
what a great experience I had there and the people
were tremendous.
Speaker 7 (19:56):
Yeah, and don't tell my state family, but I'm actually
an adjunct you see this year a little bit so yes,
And in less than a week you got guys got
your Mountaineers WV. And we're talking to Special Teams coordinator
WV you Pat Kirkley. We have you know, August thirty.
If you have your first game, Roberts Moore, So what
(20:18):
what are you looking for? What are what what are
the things you're looking for from uh far as in
that game? And what do you hope to accomplish?
Speaker 6 (20:26):
Yeah, you know, any any week one game and whatever
level you're at, you know, especially you know now with
with a number of new players that are going to
be playing here at w and you know, making the transition.
It's a it's a new scheme. In all three phases.
You want to go out and see see players execute
one at a high level. You know, try to eliminate
(20:46):
the mistakes, you know, the mental mistakes, but just watch them,
have them play fast and then really just compete and
and and you know, maybe the game plan doesn't need
to be huge. It just needs to be to the
point where those guys can go out there and you
never want to say, you know, not not not think
(21:07):
a whole lot, but because you got to that's football.
You've got to, you know, your heart in your head
got to meet halfway there.
Speaker 5 (21:13):
You can't just be all.
Speaker 6 (21:14):
Passion and no thought process. But just want to see
him go out there and play fast and if you
make a mistake, make it fast, and you know, live
you know, go play the next step.
Speaker 5 (21:23):
Yeah, so, coach, I have a question about your positions.
You're actually serving not just the position of special teams coordinator,
but it also lists you as a defensive assistant coach.
How difficult is that juggling those two positions at a
major school like WVU.
Speaker 6 (21:41):
Yeah, I mean it's I'm a defensive guy at Hart.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
You know, I was.
Speaker 6 (21:45):
I've been a coordinator for for a long time, and
you know, I'm not sure I was really good at it.
But you know, even as a player, I was a
corner and you know, that's kind of where my passion started.
So to still play a role on the defensive side,
especially now you know there's so many sub packages, not
just Nickolindine, but you know, some other stuff. So you know,
(22:07):
I've got a roll with that, which is exciting, but
it is a lot, you know, when you get into
some of these game weeks where you know, Monday, Tuesday,
Wednesday nights, they they become kind of early mornings for
the most part. And really fortunate that some of the
coaches here I work with with Special teams, Chris Herring
and Tucker Donatti are phenomenal, phenomenal, So we've got a
(22:30):
really good support staff and coaching staff, and but but
it's it's not easy a lot of it, especially when
you get later in the year and you're breaking down
a lot more games, a lot more plays that go
through it. It's a little more challenging.
Speaker 4 (22:44):
And an interesting thing that I guess I don't really
know how this and I should, but I don't know
how this necessarily works as a as a as a
dB coach, are you are you basically stuck on how
you're going to do your secondary based off of what
(23:05):
the decordinator is gonna tell you?
Speaker 2 (23:07):
Or can you know?
Speaker 4 (23:08):
Because I know when when in Minnesota when Floyd Peters
came in and Pete Carroll came in. They came in
and it was we're gonna blitz, We're gonna play man
the Man, and boom, that's it.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
You know, whether or not Pete.
Speaker 4 (23:22):
Had he I don't know if he had any control
in that or if they had conversation.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
But is there conversation.
Speaker 4 (23:29):
Of like how you want to play in the secondary,
how the backers are going to play, how the D
line's gonna play, Tell the folks how that really kind
of comes together.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
How do you develop that defense? Because it's it is
three different kind of parts of it.
Speaker 6 (23:42):
Absolutely. And I you know Zach Ally, you know who
I'd worked with for two years at Jacksonville State before
he went was the defensive coordinator at Oklahoma for a year.
You know, now we're back together here, you know at
West Virginia. He's he's got some ideas. But I think
the one thing that's great about him as he listens
and he understands we've all been doing this for quite
(24:03):
some time, and you know, he asked for the input. Now,
like you know this, there's certain defenses and calls that
you run that call for specific techniques, right. But at
the same time, the one thing you know, I'm really
passionate about on defenses, you don't want those players, especially
at corner, to be robots, you know, being a corner
(24:24):
and you're and whether you're playing pressman, off man or
zone coverage, you know, you know what you did the
prior to plays or three plays ago to set it
up when when you played pressman and you don't want
want to be handcuffed because of a call and say
I've got to do this specific technique, you know, because
that might not be your skill set or it might
not work against that, you know your opponent. You know,
(24:46):
it's like when you're a pass rusher. You don't want
someone to say, hey, every time you got to go
speed to power or you got to do a ghost rusher,
you know, club rip. You know, everybody's got a little
bit of different tools in their toolbox. So you want
the players to play fast and do what works for them.
But at the same time, you know, a squad corner
is a squad corner. He playing cover two, you know
what I mean. There's only so many things you can
(25:06):
do pre snap to disguise that. So, you know, I
think it's a little bit of just meeting halfway and
and he's he's tremendous at at you know, really suggesting
and saying, hey, we've got to do this in this situation.
But other than that, you know, couple the technique with
the down and distance and and you hope you educate
the players enough that they can do that on their own.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
All right, well, we're gonna let you go. I'll just
say this to the to the listeners.
Speaker 4 (25:33):
I hope that you can understand the complication, how complicated
all of this is. And and and I'm sure that
there's a whole lot of people who are listening and
have no idea what we said or what we talked about.
But that is the complication. That that is what football is.
It is at each level. It is just different. It's
just complicated. It can be difficult.
Speaker 5 (25:55):
And to serve two roles at a major university, that
that's that's a lot.
Speaker 7 (26:00):
Good luck, coach, Yes, best wishes to the Mountaineers this season.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
Thank you so much, coach.
Speaker 6 (26:05):
Thank you guys. I appreciate you, miss you and I
hope all as well. And thanks for having me on.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
Thanks for coming on.
Speaker 9 (26:10):
Can you have a good emaiing, Thanks you too.
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Now back to the conversation.
Speaker 4 (27:50):
All right, ladies and gentlemen, we are back and Hollis
Lewis will be introducing our next guests.
Speaker 7 (27:57):
All right, so we have another special guests on again.
Shout out to coach Pat Kirklin from WVUP. We have
now again. I might mess this up, doctor Swayin. So, yeah,
the assistant executive director for the WVSSAC AM I correct,
that is correct. Okay, So this is a I had
no chance that I'm glad you had. So this is
(28:20):
a new position. Previously, you were the principal at Saint
Albans High School. You're alma mater.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
So what attracted you to this position was very organic.
Speaker 10 (28:31):
It certainly wasn't on my radar or some vision board
or a trajectory of where I thought my professional career
would take me. But as I served in the capacity
of principal at St. Alban's High School last year from
twenty twenty four to twenty twenty five, I did have
the opportunity to serve on the wv ssac's Board of director. Yes,
I was very honored and privileged that our body of
(28:54):
principles in the member schools nominated me and I was
elected to that position. That position is one of several
principles each represented across the regions of our state where
we sit on the board of Directors to make decisions
even in the student appeal process. So I got to
see a lot of the backside and the inner workings
(29:14):
and meet some of the administrative staff at the Parkersburg
office understand those rules a little bit more. One who
is a mentor even through Kinnall County Schools with me
and my career is doctor Cindy Daniel, who previously served
as one of the assistant executive directors, and upon her retirement,
I began asking her questions about her position and what
(29:34):
it entailed, and when the opportunity presented itself, I thought, well,
let me see if maybe this is the next step
that is in God's plan for my life, and the
next step of serving our great state of West Virginia,
but also still being in the capacity of education and
serving young people and just truly what I've always been
passionate about, of encouraging young people to get involved in
(29:57):
school in something not just lots of activities, and we
do it. I mean, you see WVSSAC you think of
sports in our state tournaments, because that's what really you know,
gets a lot of the publicity as it should, but
we do. We sponsor robotics and band and we're looking
in the future to hopefully sanction and sponsor more activities
(30:20):
that fall into just co curricular and extracurricular even outside
the realm of sports.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
So what specifically would your position entail.
Speaker 10 (30:29):
I'm one of two assistant excuse me, three assistant executive directors.
Two of us, mister Chris Wells and I are new
to the staff. Mister Dan Comer had previously and still
serves as assistant executive director. We're each assigned certain sports
where we are in care of helping to facilitate and
run those state tournaments. We meet with coaching committees from
(30:53):
said sports. We're that liaison between that sport and the
clinicians of that sport to support not just coaches and
our principals at our member schools over those sports, but
also officials. So my assigned sports are cheer, volleyball, swim,
and tennis. Mister Wells is over basketball and football and
(31:16):
baseball also banned. Mister Dan Comer is over cross country soccer, wrestling,
and track. And mister Bankston, Jason Bankston. He is our
new director of compliance. It's a new position that was
added completely when mister Ryan assumed the position of executive director,
and he is going to be over golf and softball.
(31:38):
So we're spread out in that way.
Speaker 4 (31:40):
Have you found what is the challenging piece of your
particular role? Have you kind of already discovered what that
is and how that's going.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
To work for you?
Speaker 10 (31:52):
At this point in time, it's not so much challenging
as it is just exciting because I'm learning my role
and learning wow, what has been done perfectly that We're
just going to keep going and grow, what could be new,
what could be more efficient? So I'm just in this
learning phase and this exciting phase of just taking on
just the challenge of learning. You know, not necessarily anything
(32:15):
has I can't pinpoint one thing that's been challenging. Of course,
I did just serve five years as a building level
high school, so you.
Speaker 4 (32:24):
You kind of already have a background of it anyway,
a little bit of background from it anyway, Well.
Speaker 10 (32:29):
Certainly I'm blessed that I've had a lot of perspectives
that I do think is going to lend itself to
hopefully success in the position, you know, as a student
athlete myself. When I served as teacher a Capital high school,
when the eight years I was there, I was able
to coach the sports that i'd played in high school soccer, basketball, tennis.
(32:50):
Of course, married to a pretty good coach, y legendary.
And then of course being an assistant principal and a
building principle, you know, supervising and supporting coaches, supervising games
and all the athletics and extracurricular activities. And of course
I'm blessed to have three children of our own and
(33:12):
they are all involved in athletics and extra curricula.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
Y'all got it covered. So wear lots of hats, so
sports mom too. And that's and that's that's my question
right there.
Speaker 5 (33:23):
I mean, I'm amazed when I see all the things
that you're doing now now you are still actively principal.
Speaker 10 (33:28):
That is incorrect. This is a full time job again.
It will, I'm sure, get more challenging.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
Position for this one.
Speaker 8 (33:38):
It was.
Speaker 10 (33:38):
It was very bittersweet. I served Connall County Schools for
twenty one years in the multiple roles that led me
to this point. But it is a unique opportunity, and
again I felt, after much prayer and consideration, that it
was the next step in God's plan to continue to
be able to serve our great state and our students
and in our schools in a broader capacity. So, oh, yes,
(34:00):
I did have to resign from the principal. That's high
school that had to be tiped in order to take
on this position.
Speaker 5 (34:06):
Yeah, and you also, and I don't know if you've
mentioned this already, I may have missed it, were you
VP of the Mountain State Athletic Conference Board of Control?
What would what would that position that that that kind
of intrigued me when a board of control, it just
sounded really like strong, Like what was that about.
Speaker 10 (34:23):
The Mountain State Athletic Conference encompasses a lot of Kenaal
County schools, but also Cable County and Putnam County schools
predominantly three A four A schools, so your larger schools.
It's been a very competitive athletic conference historical in the
state of West Virginia. And they have a board of
control and it's very almost like a microcosm of the
(34:46):
wv s SAC. But it just provides that opportunity for
schools to have that interscholastic competition, provide m SAC tournaments,
provide officials for said sports through their board of organization
as a constitution and bylaws, you know, and it's just
another way to support again that microcosm of an athletic
(35:07):
conference within our state. And I was vice president before
again having to resigned from principalship moving on to the WVSSAC,
I couldn't continue still serving.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
I'm sure that leads me to my question.
Speaker 7 (35:22):
As far as I know, last year when they made
the four A divisions, particularly in football, there was a
lot of disagreements about the calculation and how they did
it and everything like that. But one of the questions
that I had is that I know last year, and
I believe this year too, in the MSAC they still
had far as a mix of Quad A and three
(35:45):
A schools. So in the future would that be worked
out where you're going to have just single conference, single
level conferences or would it continue.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
Just to be a mix.
Speaker 10 (35:57):
As I was leaving, of course, their last meeting was
July and to August that may have made some different decisions,
but what we were trying to do to uphold the conference,
maintain the conference so that it could maybe even grow
and include more three A and four A schools. In fact,
over the end of the last school year, Parkersburg South
(36:18):
Rejoin joined US, so that was another four A school
but they were going to continue to build the schedules
for predominantly three A schools playing three A four A
schools playing four A schools, but at least one crossover
game or two crossover games within the schedule. Prior to
even the change in classifications. They the MSAC did make
(36:40):
the decision to reduce the number of total conference games
since the membership had declined a little bit, but they're
trying to be very flexible to uphold the conference in
order to just protect just the wonderful things that it
can provide for those schools in that region, in that area.
Speaker 7 (36:59):
So you projected like that's gonna be something that's going
to be maintained, you think, even though there are different classifications.
Speaker 10 (37:05):
That was the discussion and that was the collaboration that
was really taking place among the principals and athletic directors
of those member schools in the MSAC to do what
they can to be flexible and keep it together moving forward.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
And so in the four A and three A, I
know that there's some crossover.
Speaker 4 (37:26):
Is there a way to sort of I'll say, protect
a three A school from a four A school that
they just you know, the four A is just really
a good team and maybe they just try to schedule
a game. Is there any way be cause I think
to me, I think safety in those situations? Do you
(37:49):
all play a role in trying to determine like should
this team be playing this team? Like could a four
A team play a two A team.
Speaker 10 (37:58):
We don't have any contraction I over in terms of
what a school, who a school wants to schedule as
far as four A versus three A in football, basketball, volleyball, softball,
whatever sportver they be. You know, we don't govern the
coaches and decisions of what other conference to maybe be
a part of. As you know, there's the MSAC conference,
(38:20):
there's the Cardinal Conference. You know, it is up to
the individual principal, athletic director and coach of whatever said
sport to determine their schedule and who they want to play.
One benefit of being part of the MSAC is working
together to schedule games that would be better aligned to
make sure you know, safety and success happens, you know,
(38:43):
with both the three A and four A schools that
are involved.
Speaker 7 (38:46):
Okay, yeah, and I just had a question to it
just because you got sports like volleyball, tennis, different sports
like a sports that are more that our girls are playing.
How do we do a better job of bringing more
light and publicity to girls sports, particularly in high school.
Speaker 10 (39:08):
Well, I think it's just making sure that you provide
those opportunities and even if a school has a sport.
Middle schools, I think is a important talking piece with this,
because not all the state level commissions that you know,
through our National Federation of High School Sports that's kind
of our governing body of all our state commissions. Even Kentucky,
(39:28):
for example, they don't govern their middle school sports. We
do in West Virginia. So that's a good starting point.
For example, if a volleyball team hasn't always been at
a middle school, how can you work with even elementary
schools youth leagues and say let's start a girl's volleyball league.
I know recently in St. Albans A girl's volleyball league
(39:49):
was started and that gained interest in that sport that is,
you know, more exclusive to just our females, but also
just just introducing girls to other sports. It's exciting. Our
golf invitational or girls golf Invitational cross just right around
the corner, and we have increased in participation. So just
maybe offering more invitationals with some of the sports we
(40:12):
Lacrosse is a sport that's up and coming on both
the girls and the boys side. You hear a lot
more about it, and what's great about that is the
opportunity it provides. When you choose to become you know,
sanctioned or to become a part of the WVS SAC.
You have to accept, you know, of course the rules.
And one thing that's unique about lacrosse right now because
(40:34):
of again just wanting girls to participate guys to participate
in the new sport, is the teams that are fielded
are from different areas schools, So you have to get
enough participation in enough individual schools to really sanction that sport.
Speaker 2 (40:50):
One of the things that and I'm curious about what
you think about this.
Speaker 4 (40:56):
The city of South Charleston, like, you know, we we
sponsor a lot of different teams in the youth sports.
Speaker 2 (41:04):
But one of the things that we I think that
we're looking at is.
Speaker 4 (41:10):
Certain sports football specifically, a lot of we're not getting
a lot of participation in that.
Speaker 2 (41:16):
So the more sports you have, the more you spread
out kids to to other to another sport.
Speaker 4 (41:25):
Is there any way that you all could see how
the how you would balance that at whether it be
at the high school level, middle school level, like to
make sure that we that you don't run out of
kids in a specific sport. And I don't know if
that's like saying hurt it, how to schedule it like
without hurting another sport?
Speaker 10 (41:46):
I guess I think just reflecting on when sports take
place in sports seasons, I mean, I think we all
can maybe remember here when girls and boys basketball were
not in the same season. Girls basketball was a sport,
boys BA was a winter sport, and then they moved
them together. And I think with volleyball then being in
the fall and being a main fall sport for females,
(42:08):
then sometimes then travel volleyball starts in the winter, and
maybe some of those girls instead of playing basketball or
playing volleyball. And that's not to say that that shouldn't happen.
But it just take you to look at when things happen,
when those opportunities are, you know, and if they are
spread out, then then girls. If that's what we're focused
on here in the conversation. For the point of the question,
don't have to choose between sports. I'll give you kind
(42:32):
of a unique example that you know certainly is exciting
flag football for females. Yeah, I think it has been
talked about and certainly when would you offer that? And
in a roundtable discussion at our conference, just as our
new hires, myself included, we were able to go at
(42:53):
the very end of June to Chicago to our NFHS
National Conference, and at one of the roundtable discussions, just
beating the minds of the different assistant executive directors representing
the other states all across the nation, we were talking
about flag football, and that was my question, when do
you offer that sport? You know, I would have absolutely
loved to pawn and you know, but would have had
(43:14):
to choose between soccer and flag football, or basketball and
flag football, or tennis and flag football, or maybe I
could balance both of those. They said they've had the
most success offering it in the spring, and surprisingly, but
maybe not so surprisingly in my opinion, a lot of
your cheerleaders and the especially those that are on the
sideline at those football games, since that is they're seeing
(43:37):
new athletes to this new sport because they have that
opportunity to do that in the spring, where a lot
of the girls that have maybe already taken to soccer
or volleyball or basketball maybe aren't as interested in trying
another sport in the spring. So what's been encouraging about
that moving forward is you're getting newer athletes, athletes that
(44:00):
haven't done another kind of predominant girls sports. So it
is adding and not detracting from the other sports opportunities
that are out there. So that's exciting.
Speaker 7 (44:09):
See, I would I would have thought you had the
girls flag football just during football season, so you play
like you play like the girls game. You can play
like the football game, you know.
Speaker 4 (44:18):
And and well and I think like for us in
you sports, I think we could, we could, we could
do that. But I to me, like, I think I
want them to have a season to where there's nothing
a parent that so the parent doesn't have to try
to split what game they're.
Speaker 2 (44:39):
Going to and I think with travel sports that that's
kind of probably travel sports is really an issue.
Speaker 7 (44:47):
And that's kind of the question that I had to
build on that is that being a sanctioned body. And
to your point, I've been in other states where again
middle school is not sanctioned, it's just high school.
Speaker 2 (44:58):
West Virginia is unique where we sank down to middle school.
Speaker 7 (45:01):
So with the peripheration of travel sports, what sort of
the future that you've guys kind of been discussing that
you can disclose to us around balancing that sanctioning within
the setting of the school, but also acknowledging that travel
sports are here.
Speaker 10 (45:18):
Well, we absolutely want to promote education based athletics. I mean,
that's what we stand for.
Speaker 6 (45:22):
I like that.
Speaker 2 (45:23):
I like that terminology.
Speaker 10 (45:24):
That is actually a campaign that is just being reaffirmed
by our national Federation and it's called Protect the Purpose
and we're going to do some more things with that
as we continue this year. And what's exciting too, just
to hit on that just a little bit, is we're
getting ready to celebrate one hundred years of being aligned
with our national Federation. The WVSSAC has been in cooperation
(45:47):
with NFHS for one hundred years this year, systems nineteen
twenty five. So protect The purpose is just reminding everybody
that you know, nationwide we have over eight million kids
involved in education based activities, predominantly sports, but also those
co curricular activities band, robotics, speech and debate in other places,
you know, show a choir, whatever it may be. But
(46:09):
seven percent do that in college and only two percent
get that scholarship. So it's really about, hey, we're working
with cooperation citizenship building our leaders of tomorrow that they
get that experience so that it can carry them into
whatever they choose to do. Get getting back to your question,
how we navigate that in conjunction with travel sports. We
(46:31):
certainly want students and student athletes in particular to develop,
and if travel sports is a part of that development,
that can be a great thing. So in order for
them to coexist, we want to still promote, hey, rep
your school be a part of education based Yeah. Yeah,
but at the same time make sure that you know
(46:53):
we again carefully place when seasons are and understand and
communicate clearly those rules about non participation sports. I guess
I'll use my daughter as an example because that's easy.
She's a freshman at night he high school. She participates
in multiple sports right now, her sport of choice in
her season which is her favorite soccer. She does have
(47:15):
a goal of playing that after high school at the
college level, and in communicating that to her father and I,
we chose to allow her to be participating in a
travel club club team WVFC, and it's been wonders for
her development. And it happened, of course, in the off
(47:35):
season of the school based soccer team, and so she's
still allowed to be a part of that team, but
she can't participate again in that team until the completion
of her established school season. And I think just per community,
which it does, it coincides with when travel soccer starts
back up as far as they're competitions in the spring.
(47:56):
But teaching and educating our coaches are our principles or
coaches or athletic directors, and so that they can then
share that communication and hopefully we can continue to share
more communication with parents in putting our information in more
easily accessible pockets of whether it be social media or website,
and just again continue to make that better so they
(48:18):
understand they can coexist and it does benefit your kids
to do both, and that they can do both, and
that's okay. You don't have to make that choice.
Speaker 7 (48:27):
So we are not going to let you leave without
asking one question about that transfer rule. So we have
an expert in the room. We got somebody, so we
even had a little discussion about it last week as
far as how many transfer because it seems to be
just a little bit of confusing left with it. So
how many transfers can you have? Can you transfer coming
(48:49):
from middle school to high school? And then are you
alloted another one or is it just one total?
Speaker 2 (48:55):
Now it is one total, So just to be clear,
so that transfer.
Speaker 7 (49:00):
Like if you were supposed to go to John as GW,
you go from John Abs the capitol, that counts as
a transfer, correct, okay.
Speaker 10 (49:06):
And even coming out of middle school, it used to
be that you could go to whatever high school you
wanted to go to used to be and then if
you were unhappy or you just said, hey, you know again,
I'll use my daughter Isabella. Let's say I'm still the
principal at Saint Albans High School. So she went to
comm school with mom. We live in Nitro, that's her
feeder area. She went to aj Middle School, she should
go to Nitro High School. She decided she wanted to
(49:30):
go to Saint Albans, that's fine. If she transfers back
to Nitro. This is as a ninth grader. If she
transfers back to Nitro High School, transfers to her home school,
she has to sit through sixty five because her one
transfer choice was eighth Green going into ninth grade. And
that's sometimes still the heart of the confusion and our
Rules Clinics Tour and our Regional Principal Tour because mister
(49:53):
Ryan and our assistant executive directors, we go out in
our clinicians and we do coaching clinics, and we do
informational meetings for principles all across the state.
Speaker 2 (50:03):
Are there any of those sort of clinics for parents?
Speaker 6 (50:06):
No?
Speaker 2 (50:07):
Okay, is that something that could possibly just down the
line in the future.
Speaker 10 (50:11):
I'm not gonna say it's impossible, certainly, you know, I'm
very grateful to mister Wayne Ryan, who again selected me
for this position, is doing a great job, and I
think has a great vision for continuing to keep its
strength and also move it forward. So I'm certainly not
going to speak on his behalf or say no but
our primary goal was to make sure that our principals
(50:33):
are educated as well as our coaches and athletic administrators,
so then they can be that liaison parents because ideally
they're more accessible to parents. Yes, sure, and it's their
school and their community, and they can deliver that message
to you know again who's right there in their backyard
where it's you know what happens sometimes in the summer
(50:55):
if the doors of the school aren't open and maybe
you can't have that conversation with that principle or that
the led director, then you don't know where to turn.
Speaker 7 (51:04):
Yeah, So just to be clear, so just you get
one transfersal with the trans So that's whether you're in
high school currently now you go somewhere else, or you're
in middle school and then you're going to your you're
out of district school. And where can people, parents, individuals
get more information about the wv S SAC rules, different
things of that nature.
Speaker 10 (51:24):
W v S SAC dot org or website. You can
just google the letters and it pops right up. We
are working actually even today we're having meetings about how
to improve the functionality and accessibility of our website and
the content that we put on our website so it
can be that hub not just for our principals and
coaches and officials and athletic administrators, but also parents. So
(51:48):
we do hope in the future. We've been working really
hard out of the office and you'll see these coming
out soon. For one pagers on those RULs such as
the transfer rule. There will be a one pager on ANIL,
There'll be a one pager on flex days. There will
be a one pager on what I talked about a
little bit with nonschool participation, your travel, your club, your
(52:10):
all star participation, and how that works with not against
your participants, summary education based athletics, repping, your team, being
a part of your school in your athletics or your
activities you know, band, robotics or otherwise. So we're working
to continue to get the message out so that it's
clear to all our stakeholders.
Speaker 4 (52:31):
I'm going to I'm going to say this as we
as we kind of close it up. We've had this
conversation before, and I'm just talking about football and particularly Okay,
because we've had I know people who do travel football,
and there was a conversation about wanting to play travel
(52:52):
football and also still play school ball, whether it be
high school or middle school. I think that that's something
that should never be able to happen as a as
a football player for life and knowing the issues that
come with it, like we're setting our kids. We're setting
(53:14):
kids up for a really bad future with all the contact.
So if I would say that just to get it
out and say, football is not the one you can
play on Thursday and then come back play it on
Saturday and play.
Speaker 2 (53:30):
Four games or three games on Saturday, travel football is
not in its true.
Speaker 4 (53:37):
Yes, And to me, I just think that in that conversation,
I think you have to realize you have to because
there's not a way to really look at youth or
even maybe high school.
Speaker 2 (53:48):
You have to look long term and then look what
all of that head trauma is coming with the athlete.
Speaker 10 (53:58):
And that can even speak in multiple sports, but certainly
football being as unique as it is in the physicality
of the sport and what it takes in the level
of competition that you have if it's played in its
true form as you noted, But what's specific to our
non school participation rule for team sports and even individual sports,
but especially our team sports, is you cannot play that
(54:19):
travel sport during the established sports season and still be
eligible to play for your travel team and or your
school team. So again, going back to my daughter as example,
while she is participating and practicing, she's at practice right now,
you know what, She's practicing and participating for Nitro High
School and representing her school as a part of that
(54:40):
that interscholastic team. She cannot practice, she cannot compete. She
cannot go on a weekend and play for that travel
soccer team during her school sports season, and that would
extend to whatever sport that is, including travel football. All right, thanks,
(55:00):
shame the opportunity, nice speaking with you.
Speaker 5 (55:03):
Thank you very much.
Speaker 4 (55:04):
All Right, ladies and gentlemen, we hope you enjoyed the
show and we will be back again next week.
Speaker 3 (55:09):
Let's Talk with Carl Lee as presented by Attorney Frank
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