Shedeur Sanders First NFL Start, Sports Betting, and More - With Carl, Lisa, and Hollis

The conversation starts on the upcoming NFL start for Shedeur Sanders - The Browns will be the Browns, but will Sanders be any good? 

Plus, the conversation continues on sports betting and finding some way to seperate the players away from it. Can it be done?

Let's Talk! With Carl Lee, Lisa Otey, and Hollis Lewis.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Yeah, you gotta work.

Speaker 2 (00:10):
You gotta work, ry Shine. It's mine gotta show. Everybody
is my sign you gotta work, cry Shine. Another mind.

Speaker 1 (00:19):
I'm trying to die because day line don't tell you
gotta burk.

Speaker 3 (00:22):
Welcome to Let's Talk with carl Lee and frequent guest
hosts Hollis Lewis and Lisa Odie, where sports culture and
community intersect. Join the crew as they dive into engaging
conversations with guests from all walks of the sports life.
Let's Talk as proudly presented by Attorney Frank Walker, Real Talk,
Real Experience, Real Results, Frank Walker Law dot com and

(00:43):
by the all new historic Choyir Diner in downtown Charleston
one line at Choyerdner dot com. Let the conversation begin
on Let's Talk.

Speaker 2 (00:54):
Hello, ladies and gentlemen.

Speaker 1 (00:55):
This is Carl Lee with Let's Talk, and I have
my two hosts my cot in the building, Lisadi Hello,
and Hollis Lewis Hello. Hello, and Hollis, I think you're
gonna open this up.

Speaker 2 (01:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:10):
So I was at West Virginia State's EARL Lloyd Classic
basketball tournament this weekend and I ran into a fan,
you know, oftentimes when you were walking around and you know,
just maticulating through life. I'm sure you meet people who
were listen to the show, but this gentleman was very special.
So a shout out to you will. He's going through
some things so and he has to travel pretty frequently,

(01:32):
and he said a big part of passing the time
is he's going through what he's going through is listening
to the show. So it was something to touch my heart.
And hopefully we'll we're gonna have you on one day,
so you know, you continue to be safe, get well
and you know, and.

Speaker 2 (01:46):
We have and we totally totally totally appreciate it. That's
that's always good stuff, though, doesn't.

Speaker 4 (01:51):
It always like just I don't know about you guys,
but it just kind of like you're almost in shock
and awe when somebody says, oh, yeah, you're on that
you're on that podcast with Let's Talk with you know,
Carl Lee and and you're just like wow, you know,
because sometimes we forget when we're in the studio just
us and poor you know, mad in there trying to
control us. But you forget that people actually are out

(02:13):
there listening and they appreciate, you know, what we do
and shout out to you guys for doing that, for listening.

Speaker 1 (02:19):
Well and to that point, it is an amazing kind
of a thing like and and and for you too,
both of you all in your at least in your
past uh line of work, hollerus in your current uh work.
Like to me, when I see that, I don't think

(02:41):
that you guys can actually actually appreciate or maybe even
be totally aware of the positive sides of that of
the people who look at you and think like, oh man,
she's great, he's great, they're doing all these good things,
because I don't, because I think what happens is you
spend all of you or time on working on trying

(03:02):
to get those positive things for people to be appreciative of,
not saying that you're doing it just so they appreciate it.
But you're so tied into working with that kind of
stuff that.

Speaker 4 (03:15):
Your content, you're thinking about what we're going to discuss
and talk about it, and you forget that the audience really,
you know, there is an audience.

Speaker 1 (03:22):
Yeah, yeah, You've done something, and all of a sudden,
now I'm totally appreciative of it, and you don't know me,
you know, you know, And then all of a sudden,
I happened to walk up and see you, and now
it's like, oh, and you know, and I think that's
a hard kind of thing to kind of maybe get
used to, you know, and you know, sports is built
around that kind of thing. But when you do it

(03:43):
to me, I think when you do it outside of sports,
I think it's I think it's huge.

Speaker 2 (03:47):
I think it's right.

Speaker 1 (03:49):
It's just a it's way more special, I think because
you got everybody calling your name and all of that
kind of stuff during that. But in you all's line
of work, Yeah, it's it's different. It's like you've got
to do literally do something, and you're doing something and
you got a huge group of people that are like, man,

(04:10):
she's great. Oh man, he's great. Yeah, And I think
that's I think that itself is cool.

Speaker 4 (04:16):
Yeah, it's a reward in itself for sure. And to
hear something like that, that's just a heartwarming story about Will,
I mean, to know what he's going through, and it
makes us feel good because we feel like we're helping
somebody get through a difficult part of the part of
their lives just by putting out some content on sports
and it helps them forget for a while, and hopefully
that's our goal really is to help everybody escape reality

(04:39):
for a minute.

Speaker 1 (04:39):
And how many times have had somebody told you that
they're driving somewhere, Yeah, and they know that we're on,
and so they're listening to us to go drive as
they go wherever they're going, and they're driving, they they're
listening to us. And when you think about that, that's
like kind of cool, like you know, yeah, because like wow, Okay,

(05:04):
he knows we're on.

Speaker 2 (05:05):
She knows we're on.

Speaker 1 (05:06):
They're turning us on at that time to take that drive.
That's you know, shut you will shout out and all the.

Speaker 2 (05:14):
Listeners who who's listeners and listen to us? All right, Well, let's.

Speaker 4 (05:20):
Put some contre for them to listen to now for sure?

Speaker 2 (05:24):
All right.

Speaker 1 (05:24):
So I'm going to open this up with the I'm
gonna call it the Dion Sanders saga. All right, here
here is here is Here is my my take on it.

(05:50):
I feel really really bad about the health of Dion
and and in spite of his health, he's still trying
to to be the head coach. He's still trying to
be the dad that's that's supporting his son. Wanting the
best for his son. I think all of that is.

(06:11):
I think it's I think it's important, and it's great
shador I think.

Speaker 2 (06:18):
I think what he did not realize.

Speaker 1 (06:22):
And most players who are great in college, and I
use that word literally great in college, they don't really
know the transition to the next level of It's one
thing being in practice and being good and thinking like, oh,
this is easy. But then when it comes to the

(06:45):
real games, regular season games against teams.

Speaker 2 (06:51):
It ain't the same. Yeah, And and I don't know.

Speaker 1 (06:56):
I think that I personally think that your door can play.
I think that what's how do we know if he
can play? Well, well, well, here's here's my here's here's
here's and I'm gonna let you have all of this.

Speaker 2 (07:08):
Okay, here's what I think. I think he can play.

Speaker 1 (07:14):
But playing does not necessarily mean that you're going to
be a superstar or you're even gonna be starting. You
can play, if you can play in the pros, right,
you can play. But I don't really know yet if
he's under that he understood the difference in what his
greatness whatever, however he viewed his greatness in college to

(07:37):
think that that's going to carry over and that's just
gonna be okay, and you're on a team that's not
very good. Now, you can talk about the lines not
doing this, d D D D D all that kind of.

Speaker 2 (07:48):
Stuff, but do you are the guy well and you're
claiming to be it. I'm just what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (07:56):
I mean, I think maybe that's the thought, maybe initially,
but I think reality set in and the fact of
the matter is, I don't know if we know if
he can play because he just hasn't really had the opportunities.
From every report coming out, he hasn't got first team reps.
He's not getting a lot of practice time, and as
a quarterback, you have to build that muscle memory and
that happens in practice. And uh, just to pay the context,

(08:19):
he saw his first game action this week. It didn't
really go well, No, not at all. So so again
I don't you know, we don't know. I don't think
any I think anybody says he can't or he can't
you don't know.

Speaker 4 (08:30):
I think the circumstance that he was thrown into, I
just don't think he could win. I mean, first of all,
like you said, going back to your point, hollis he
really hasn't even had practice with that first first team offense,
so you know, you throw him into a situation where
you're you're you know, you're already losing to the to
the team that you're playing. His stats were not great,

(08:53):
of course, you know, I'm sure he was nervous. I'm
sure he struggled with the mental part of it of
just being taken off the bench and thrown out there
without warning. Really, you know, his passing completions he only
made four out of sixteen attempts, as completion percentage was
twenty five percent. Passing yards total of forty seven with
zero touchdowns obviously, So yeah, he struggled, and he admitted that.

(09:17):
He admitted that in the press conference. You know, he'd
made some comments and I'll paraphrase some things that he said,
but you know, he said, I don't think I played
good at all. At least he admitted that part. But
then later on in the you know, I kind of
skipped over some of the other things he said. He
still has his swagger because he said, I know I'm
made for it. I don't think there was doubt in
my mind that final drive we were going to go

(09:39):
down there and score things. Happened differently. So in his mind,
even when he was thrown into this situation, his confidence
was still there. It was just mentally and physically, I
don't think he was ready or prepared to do what
he needed to do.

Speaker 1 (09:53):
Yeah, and the game speeds up so as you move
from the level from one to the next. And like
I said, if you have had any any reps and
it's just it makes me just question like even the
Philip said Philadelphia, but Cleveland coaching staff, because it's like
if you draft two quarterbacks, you're down to two, you
have a backup, obviously he's your backup. Then you have

(10:15):
to get him some first team reps. You have to
get him in there and get some reps. So I
don't understand what they're doing on that, And it just
doesn't make sense. And it's just sort of indicative of
who the Cleveland Browns are and why they are constantly
in the position that they're in right to to the
to the Browns piece of that, I'm gonna give you.
I'm gonna give you some props on that, but I'm

(10:36):
gonna challenge I'm gonna challenge the and and and you know,
quarterback way better than I'm gonna know quarterback and I
and I do understand the challenges that come with playing quarterback,
all the things that you've got to know. But where
I have where I'm questioning, is, Okay, we all know

(11:00):
that you needed all of that, but you've been screaming
about getting in.

Speaker 2 (11:04):
You've been getting you've been wanting to play.

Speaker 1 (11:07):
So whether or not, whether or not you I mean
all you wanted to do, because all.

Speaker 4 (11:15):
You want to think it was calculated? Do you think
that they did that to maybe prove a point to
him that I got hurt Gabriel? Yeah, but I'm saying,
was it calculated to put him in in that in
that situation without I know?

Speaker 2 (11:29):
I think I don't think so.

Speaker 1 (11:30):
But I think when you get put into that situation
and now it's real and you've never touched it, Dad
can't help you now and your cockingness or your confidence,
whatever you want to call it, it won't work. It
but it can't work because you haven't had any reps

(11:51):
at it. And again, quarterback is not a is not
a quote unquote pure athletic position. So I can't just
go out there as an athlete and make something happen.
As an athlete. If I want to really progress and
move the ball maturated down field, I have to number one,
have a feel for the offense. I have to have
worked this thing, because again, different coverage is gonna dictate

(12:13):
different reads. I'm gonna have to you know, even even
if you have the same coverage, if I'm a specific
cornerback and lineback, I have to make slightly different throws
in adjust. I have to know I have a weakness
on this side of the line. I have a strength
on her here, So I know. And all that doesn't
come through you just by studying it. You have to
feel it. And there's no way you're going to be
successful with the NFL quarterback by that.

Speaker 2 (12:35):
You're not.

Speaker 1 (12:36):
But I'm not buying no reps. I'm not buying that's
what's coming out. No, that's what everybody says. That's what
the organization is saying. Everybody's saying that. Okay, So so
my thing is if he's having sex. Okay, so let's
say if he's having second team quarterback reps, right, he's

(13:00):
he's he's throwing the ball, he's handing it off, he's
faking it, he's doing all those kinds of things that
the quarterback has to do. Now he's reading some defense,
whether it's a scout team or what. Don't wait a minute,
Wait a minute, Wait a minute. I'm not saying that
it works him reading the scout team. That won't help
him if that, because that's not the team that he's playing.

Speaker 2 (13:22):
I understand that piece. I get that.

Speaker 1 (13:26):
But if every every quarterback, everybody who's playing has to
be ready, what's what got to be ready when it comes?
And and and you got to be ready when I
think you got to be you can't. That's that's a
blanket statement. You can't pit there. Again, if what we're
if the reports are true, and we're saying and we

(13:49):
believe that he's not getting any first team action in practice,
this is not a pure mental I believe if we
believe that, if that's true, which I think is true
because it's.

Speaker 4 (14:00):
It's coming from at one point he wasn't.

Speaker 1 (14:02):
Even getting snapped excuse me, scout team reps when they
were fully quarterback, when they had a full quarterback room.

Speaker 2 (14:08):
So it's just one of them positions.

Speaker 1 (14:10):
You are not going to do well if you're not
in getting reps, you're just not well.

Speaker 4 (14:17):
Correct me, if I'm wrong. I mean obviously that the
management wasn't too disappointed with this play because he's expected
to make his first start against the Raiders, right. I
don't know if they have a choice anybody else.

Speaker 1 (14:30):
Now, it's just them too. In Gabriel, he's in country proto,
so he's not going to be available.

Speaker 2 (14:35):
So it is what it is.

Speaker 1 (14:36):
So hopefully I think this week we'll see, we'll see
what it is. And again I'm enjoying this fight because
like what like I'm an old school enough to also realize,
like you know, the opportunity to to get into a game.

Speaker 2 (14:58):
You may not get.

Speaker 1 (14:59):
You know, if if you're if you're a backup, you
might not get those reps. But when you become from
back up to the starter, you got to be able
to you got to come out and play. You you
can say, you can say that I didn't get enough reps,
I didn't get enough of this, I didn't do this.

Speaker 2 (15:16):
Y'all didn't give me enough time.

Speaker 1 (15:18):
Brother, Sometimes you don't get you got to come out
and play like you just got still.

Speaker 4 (15:23):
Have to pretend like your quarterback is hurt, Like you
have to make sure that that second string quarterback is
ready to go. You is going to get You just
have to think that way, right.

Speaker 1 (15:36):
This is why the Browns suck the terrible because to
your point, you know that you ain't never play football
in your life. And the fact that matters that if
I'm an organization, I'm a coach, It's on me to
make sure that my backup quarterback has a package that
he can feel comfortable doing so if he has to insert,

(15:57):
if I have to insert him in the game, then
I have about ten to fifteen players that I know
this guy can do and he's comfortable doing it.

Speaker 2 (16:04):
He knows the reason against all defense.

Speaker 1 (16:06):
There's no way in modern football that if you're not
getting any reps. I just don't believe that at the
quarterback position. Not at the quarterback position. It's like asking
a goalie to go in and he's not. He doesn't
feel any shots in soccer or hot He just sits
in the stands, sits on the sidelines. It goes on

(16:27):
work that way, it doesn't work.

Speaker 2 (16:28):
And I buy that.

Speaker 1 (16:30):
I'm one hundred percent with you. I just don't buy.
I just don't. I just don't. I can't imagine, Okay,
I'll say it that way. I can't imagine you having
a quarterback and you've got two available and you're only
giving you're giving all the reps to one.

Speaker 4 (16:48):
That's what made me think there was another quarterback. I mean,
I mean, I mean when I heard that, I thought
there's gotta be somebody else.

Speaker 2 (16:54):
I think they have emergency guy. I want to say somebody,
but it's not.

Speaker 1 (16:57):
I think those are the two starting like shooting yes,
because they remember they were five one time.

Speaker 4 (17:01):
Right, yeah, I remember they had too many.

Speaker 1 (17:03):
I mean, I just don't I just don't see how
you get no reps. I just don't see how that is.
That is that you need to pull some strings and
get that coach on the show and we need to
ask him like, okay, that's we got five minutes. We

(17:25):
ask you one question. Is door getting reps?

Speaker 3 (17:27):
And is he not?

Speaker 2 (17:28):
Why?

Speaker 4 (17:28):
So I watched the guys, I watched all those sports
shows today. ESPN was just you know, every single one
of them. They were talking about this situation, and you know,
they talked about his play and you being a former quarterback, Hollis,
and you being a coach and defensive player. I'll throw
this out there, but they said they felt like he
struggled with processing, which would be speed right, and that

(17:49):
too often like bailed backward out of the pocket, or
he fell backward on his throes and he was off target.
So that's more of technique than it is. I mean,
is that because he hasn't had that.

Speaker 1 (18:01):
It's not technique, And I'll tell you why. That's a
good observation. It's not technique. It's it's more of eye
discipline because like I said, if I'm in the pocket
and I have reps, I'm used to the speed of
things going on, and I understand and know what I'm
looking at, because I mean, you're a professional athletes.

Speaker 2 (18:20):
Process, yeah, you guys prep. It's all related to process.

Speaker 1 (18:22):
So if I'm unsure what I'm looking at, then I'm
my fee get antsy, and I end up in my
mind trying to buy myself times waiting for guys to
get open because I'm not anticipating. Because good quarterbacks, you see,
they're throwing guys open, or they're throwing the ball before
the guy gets open, like right out the break and
they're throwing the ball. But if but if you don't
have that feel and if you don't have that repetition,

(18:43):
then you start doing stuff like that. So that's exactly
what this is, and it's indicative of somebody who is not.

Speaker 4 (18:51):
Just going to ask that's something that can be corrected.

Speaker 1 (18:53):
I meant, yeah, he's gonna he's gonna need reps. But
I want to ask this question, Hollis, sometimes when you
get put into that situation and you mentally remember what
that was now week two and you're gonna and you're
gonna start again in week two, even though let's say

(19:16):
they give you all of that information, all you can
remember because it's tough being in that pocket when you
got people coming. Is it possible that that's the that
that because of how he was handled, how it was
handled this past week, how poorly he played, because of

(19:37):
all the reasons, is he gonna like is that is
he gonna be.

Speaker 2 (19:42):
Nervous again coming in?

Speaker 1 (19:43):
He'll come fine, He'll be He'll be he's gonna be
so confident because he got that out, so he he
he actually got a feel now, So I mean it
probably is gonna work out pretty good because he actually
got some game even if he didn't get a whole
lot of reps prior to that, he got a game
time feel and then he'll get a whole week to
dissect that and then going into reps and give reps

(20:05):
and get all the reps in practice.

Speaker 2 (20:06):
So I think you'll be fine.

Speaker 4 (20:07):
So you're thinking this in your opinions now that he's
he's gotten that first game out of the way, and
he's going to get more practice, more reps, the things
he needs to get better. So now this coming week
when they, you know, play the Las Vegas Raiders, now
can we kind of make a judgment about whether he's
in NFL material.

Speaker 1 (20:26):
I mean that fair, one hundred percent fair. I mean
I think this will be the first This would be
the first test, and we'll see, like this would be
test number one, see, and I would be willing to
give him. I would be willing to give him another.

Speaker 4 (20:40):
Week even after this game.

Speaker 5 (20:41):
Even after this, because what what I would like to
do probably maybe what I would like to do is
like you could can you see getting better? It doesn't
he's not gonna be yeah, just improvement would be great.
Whether it's whether he completes eight balls this time, you
know that's oh okay. So started for down with eight

(21:03):
and he looked a little bit more comfortable, because when
when you get thrown into a game at that level,
and really at any level and you're all of a
sudden you are the guy or you're.

Speaker 2 (21:14):
Playing it's a lot. That's a lot.

Speaker 1 (21:16):
Yeah, I mean my, I guess my my barometer for
this week would just be like just hanging in the
pocket and being on time and just making good decisions. Again,
they might have some dropballs, maybe some off target, but
are you on time? Are you making the right decision,
are you making the right read are you are you
keeping up with speed? Are you figuring out okay I

(21:37):
need to you know, maybe I can run this for
this two or three yards? Are you just making the
good decisions? Are you calm?

Speaker 2 (21:44):
You know?

Speaker 1 (21:44):
Is your feet steady? So I'm looking for stuff like that.
You know, se what the one point that you made there?
Can they run the football? Because gosh yeah, because that
would wouldn't that be a great opportunity to be able
to play action do those kinds of things, Because when
when when you don't think if a team knows that
you can't know you can't run the football, man, they're coming.

Speaker 2 (22:07):
At you and it's the Cleveland Browns.

Speaker 1 (22:09):
Yeah I'm saying so it ain't about to win, it's
just you know, can you get a Can you get
ten fifteen percent better than what you was last week? Okay,
so so you're so your dad, what are you thinking now?
You you then saw your son in this in this scenario,
and you're Dion, What do you think?

Speaker 2 (22:30):
I think Dyon thinking the same thing. Just get a
little bit better.

Speaker 1 (22:33):
You gotta get some tape now, because ultimately I don't
think he's his future is in Cleveland.

Speaker 2 (22:38):
It just ain't.

Speaker 1 (22:39):
I don't think that's where he'll he'll be long term.
So right now, it's just about getting some tape. Can
you get a little bit better? Can to your point,
can you give everything every week that you play? Can
you get a little bit better?

Speaker 4 (22:50):
Can go ahead? Finish?

Speaker 2 (22:53):
You know what I'm saying? Then just figure it out
for the next couple of years.

Speaker 4 (22:55):
Yeah, just keep improving and figure out where you want
to be. Has Dion even come out and made like
an official statement about his his son's play. I haven't heard.
I don't think which.

Speaker 2 (23:04):
Yes, I would. I think he should. I think he
should say that because.

Speaker 4 (23:08):
There is his own problems in Colorado.

Speaker 1 (23:10):
Yeah, there isn't any There isn't any reason for him
to even speak on that.

Speaker 4 (23:15):
You know, and again, but sometimes it doesn't matter whether
he needs to speak on it or not. We know
Dion likes to speak on it, especially when it comes to.

Speaker 1 (23:23):
I think if Dion gets in it, I think it
gets muddy. And I think and I and I truly.

Speaker 4 (23:28):
Think he hasn't So.

Speaker 1 (23:31):
I think this would be I think they would end
up either trading or cutting. I think they're going to
trade on Prougust. And again, it's just you know, he
coached the son in whole life. It's time to let
the training wheels off, and you got to let him
go be a pronounce yeah, yeah, which I think he
did a good He's done a good job because he
hasn't said to me, I haven't heard anything of him

(23:53):
speaking out over it.

Speaker 2 (23:54):
Yeah, he may.

Speaker 4 (23:55):
He may be facing a hot seat in Colorado with
the record they have and what's going on in the
Big Twelve. I mean it's I know it's Dion, but
this year's been been tough on that on the Buffalo,
all right, So if they were next to last and
the Big Twelve, if we.

Speaker 1 (24:09):
Want to switch to Dad real quick, Okay.

Speaker 4 (24:11):
So I'm just saying he maybe he's got a lot
of things on his plate and like Hollis just said
his son needs to figure it out for himself. He's grown,
he's a great man now he's in the NFL, and
he needs to do this. And then Dion probably needs
to focus on his own health and his own issues
with football in Colorado in my opinion, but.

Speaker 2 (24:30):
I'm with you.

Speaker 1 (24:32):
I think his health is actually a thousand times more important,
or should be important everybody's health.

Speaker 2 (24:41):
Than him trying to stay at Colorado for what? For who?

Speaker 1 (24:45):
Why is why am I staying in this situation, trying
to turn this program around, make it something great? Why
am I doing that when my own individual health is
I'm having issues with my health.

Speaker 4 (25:02):
Do you think that this question is for both of you?
Do you ever think that Colorado would put pressure on
him to step down or do you think it's a
position that Dion will He can do what he pleases
as long as he as he pleases.

Speaker 1 (25:16):
I don't regardless, I don't think so he can. I
don't think that they're going to give him that. I
think he might he's used to having that right right,
but he's not, nor is he used to having what's
called what people might call failure. He doesn't know what
that feels like or he's never really been through it.

(25:37):
Everything that he has ever tried to do, he didn't
just do it, he did it great, and all of
a sudden, now he's in a situation where it's it's
not at this point, it's not even good.

Speaker 4 (25:47):
I mean he's had six I saw this on the
internet today. He's had sixteen surgeries since twenty twenty one. Yeah,
that's a lot.

Speaker 2 (25:54):
If I'm if I'm the school.

Speaker 4 (25:56):
I mean, I'm.

Speaker 1 (25:59):
Sitting him down and say, look, your health is more
important to us than you trying to you trying to
run our football program. You need to you need to
go take care of yourself for your family, get a
chance to do the things that you need to do, and.

Speaker 2 (26:20):
And we can and we move on.

Speaker 1 (26:22):
I think just because of his health, like number one,
you don't have the energy to recruit like you need
to and you don't have and I think you just
you can't be the draw like you were initially. So
I think him, Travis and his son Shador was like
there was a big draw. There was a lot of hype,
a lot of energy was the swag, the glasses, everything
around it.

Speaker 2 (26:41):
So that's kind of wane. And then the football is
just not great.

Speaker 1 (26:45):
So you know, it's like I said, Colorado is a
tough place to recruit, you know, from everywhere else and
it's in the Big twelve. So I think it's one
of the situations where it's probably gonna be another year
or two then we'll see him transition to something else.
You think you think he's gonna go two more, You
think there could be two more, yeay, one or too
many years. I think he wants to figure out if
he can win or not. But like again, I just
don't know if you have the energy to really do that.

(27:07):
And I think the hype is gone.

Speaker 2 (27:09):
I do too, I think I think the hype is gone.

Speaker 4 (27:11):
I don't know. People were pretty excited in Morgantown when
he was there. I mean people because I mean it's Dion.
I mean the hype for him to be somewhere is
still there. But oh yeah, I think as far as
the team goes.

Speaker 1 (27:23):
Yeah, I think I think Dion is always going to
be appreciated wherever he goes. You know, he comes, He's
coming to WU. Everybody's coming to that game because we
want to just get a glimpse.

Speaker 2 (27:34):
Of him, just get a picture. Yeah. But for him
on his own, on his individual.

Speaker 1 (27:41):
Side of it, he's got to look, he's got to
look at his his own individual health. And now again
he doesn't have anybody that to He has no loyalty
to Colorado at this point. Now now that now that
the boys are gone, you know, but I think he
he's just that competitive that he just don't you know,

(28:05):
he doesn't want to quote lose, and I don't know
if him not having a winning record there is losing.
I think the kids who he's touched, you know, I
think all of them, sure for the rest of their
life will be a Dion thing.

Speaker 4 (28:22):
Yeah, yeah, so, oh well, the numbers are, but the
numbers are not great. Like I think they're like three
and seven overall, and they're like one in six conference play,
which is yeah, big twelve. It's hard to hard to
support that. I don't know. I mean as far as
lay like we understand and as you know, people that

(28:45):
understand football, but for the layman fan, you know, they
want wins right period period.

Speaker 6 (28:51):
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Speaker 7 (29:21):
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(30:12):
at seven or Sunday nights at eight for Let's Talk
with Carl Lee. This is Let's Talk with Carl Lee.
Now back to the conversation.

Speaker 2 (30:21):
So this is a story.

Speaker 1 (30:22):
We touched on a subject I would say we touched
on a bunch of times as gambling and gambling around sports.
You know, we heard obviously what happened with the NBA
players and coaches and different things of that nature. But
two stories popped up where we have some basketball players
from the University of New Orleans got caught basically point shaving,

(30:46):
and then we had some baseball players from the Cleveland
Guardians who got caught I guess manipulating prop bets and
I think, you know, and just to talk on the
prop bets, you know, prop bests is like you can
bet on something specific, like you can bet on what's
going to be the first pitch, or or how what's
the average speed, or what's going to be the coin

(31:07):
toss and all those things. So when we talk about,
you know, this continued culture of gambling and how embedded
sports are, and we're gonna, in my opinion, we'll see
more and more of these sort of stories. Just because
we talked about Dionne and competitive. All these other athletes
are competitive as well, and it's and it's a culture
that a lot of these young men are growing up into,

(31:27):
so they'll start gambling really has pre teens, and it
persists even as they move and reticulate through professional ranks.
So I mean, what what what do we do as
a culture to address this, Like how do we figure
out you know, or are we just going to continue
to see story after story about this.

Speaker 4 (31:47):
I mean, I think once we had the NBA that
the big you know bust of what happened with the
coach down there, and are the coaches in the league
and you know, all of that coming down. I think
that the other stuff is going to start coming out too.
We talked about this. You know, once the dam breaks,
the water just comes rolling through, and so there's going
to be more and more of these stories coming out

(32:10):
from different angles in the sports world. I don't know,
how you fix it now. I think that it's just
so difficult when you turn on the TV in the commercial,
you know, on ESPN's DraftKings, and we've talked about this,
it's so easy to access. It's not like it used
to be. You pick up your phone, you can gamble.
You don't have to go to a casino. I don't know.

Speaker 1 (32:28):
I mean, I know one of the things they were
talking about doing was getting rid of a lot of
the prop bets, so all them like small little bets
you can make.

Speaker 2 (32:36):
Getting rid of that.

Speaker 1 (32:37):
Well, they do that, though I think they have to
to a certain degree it in. They have to rein
it in. But even to that point again, and it
goes back to money in sports where you have the
University of New Orleans basketball, which is a small I
don't know if maybe a one double A program or
FCS program, maybe even Division two, but those kids were
getting like five they were approached by, you know, a

(32:58):
big money guy. They're getting like, I have ten thousand
dollars a game to fix games. Because now and again,
that's what I want people to realize. It's not just
betting on the Alabama's or the or the NFL, the
NBA people. I read a story with this guy was
betting on like women's basketball in Iceland. They're betting on
like these like real like low soccer league. You don't

(33:19):
have the Premier League, you have the other leagues. They're
betting on soccer league. They bet on cricket, they're betting
on stuff across the water. They're betting on like darn near,
like amateur sports like minor excuse me, league. So it's
like it just it just seems like it's not stopping.
It's just getting worse and worse and worse worse. Okay,
And that's a valid, very valid point, and I'm gonna

(33:41):
I'm gonna go from there.

Speaker 2 (33:44):
So back in the day when I was playing.

Speaker 1 (33:48):
You didn't have you didn't have gambling commercials, you didn't
have all of this kind of stuff that that's out front.
So if you were gambling and you couldn't gamble on
on football, more than likely you probably wasn't gonna do it. Now,
did somebody do it? I'm sure somebody got away with it.
Somebody may have gotten caught and I don't even remember,

(34:09):
but in today's market, who Okay, So you're gonna tell
me not to gamble, But you're gonna have gambling as
a as a sponsor. You're like, you're you're putting these
things out there for what? Because you want to make
this money? So when you're promoting gambling, it's part of

(34:33):
every football commercial. You're promoting that.

Speaker 4 (34:39):
And ESPN has its own segment that you know, So
how are you.

Speaker 2 (34:46):
How are you gonna do that?

Speaker 1 (34:48):
Like, how are you gonna How am I gonna make
you I'm promoting something that's gambling and I'm telling you
that it's illegal.

Speaker 2 (34:56):
How does that work?

Speaker 4 (34:57):
Society's normalized it, like it's like you know, and I
believe that's not it's not tapio.

Speaker 2 (35:01):
Well, I mean, I think again.

Speaker 1 (35:03):
The problem is when we're again with these two stories
with the baseball players and the basketball players, it's not
that they were even gambling. They were involved in the
manipulation of it.

Speaker 2 (35:13):
You see what I'm.

Speaker 4 (35:13):
Saying, it's anticipating I help you.

Speaker 2 (35:15):
I'm gonna help you get that I'm gonna help you
get that money.

Speaker 1 (35:18):
I'm like, so, I gues We've seen this before, but
I'm just thinking, like how much are we? How much
have we? Is it already happened? I'm sure there's been.
It's been happening over the last year. These guys who
got caught, this wasn't their first time. It wasn't their
first time, and there's more people who are doing it.
So again, has you have these degenerate gamblers or just
people with deep pockets approaching you? And I'm playing basketball

(35:39):
and I probably don't have a shot at going into
the to the NBA. I may not be getting any
in any nil money. Heck, if you're gonna offer me
five ten thousand dollars a game to you know, throw
a game or fix a game, or make sure we
don't score any prisonsble, I wouldn't not do that because
we're because we're in a we're in a culture of
of you know, of tip for tap. We're in a
culture of like what you've done well, culture of just

(36:01):
give me some money. I'm find a way to get
some money. That's my ni l Yeah, that's yeah, Yeah,
I'm fixing games.

Speaker 2 (36:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (36:09):
And I remember we had this conversation before, Matt. You
were talking about how it's getting easier for these people
that do these types of gambling schemes to get in
contact with the players point because of the different events, schools,
are doing now for for fans to get a better experience,
and like, tell us about the one Matt Man in

(36:31):
social media for.

Speaker 1 (36:32):
Sure, so you could just DM somebody and say, hey.

Speaker 4 (36:34):
Yeah it was like but but it was something about
I think it was was it Ohio State?

Speaker 2 (36:40):
Man, it was Cavaliers?

Speaker 4 (36:42):
Okay, Cleveland, Sorry it was Pro Go ahead tell.

Speaker 2 (36:45):
Us a little bit. Yeah.

Speaker 8 (36:45):
They're just creating kind of like a almost sort of
like a private club where you have to pay five
figures to get in there, and it's going to give
you extra access to players.

Speaker 2 (36:54):
It's going to get you.

Speaker 8 (36:56):
It's kind of like the next level beyond if you're
like already a regular season suite holder. It's just kind
of like an exclusive group within.

Speaker 2 (37:05):
The exclusive career.

Speaker 4 (37:06):
Who's got the money to do that? The people that are,
you know, promoting these schemes that are getting to the
players and saying, hey, I've got something for you, and
then do something for me.

Speaker 2 (37:14):
Think about it.

Speaker 1 (37:15):
Think about if they can get to a professional basketball
player and they can make some sort of deal or
in the pockets, what do you think is going to
be for somebody that goes to State or Glenville or
you see, like because literally they're betting on those games. Yes,
those games are getting betted on. So it's not just
like I said, it's not big games, not just the
big games.

Speaker 2 (37:34):
So it's all sports now.

Speaker 4 (37:35):
And the fact that so did NIL open this door,
you think to a degree.

Speaker 1 (37:40):
I think gaming gambling in general, I think N I
l because it made it about the money money again.

Speaker 2 (37:47):
Because again, and.

Speaker 1 (37:48):
I want to preface this by saying that, you know,
not gambling gambling has been.

Speaker 2 (37:53):
Going on for a long time. Sports.

Speaker 1 (37:54):
We see the other sports shaving gamble, excuse me, scandals,
So we've seen this before. This is not necessarily new.
But I just think we're going to see it to
a level that we haven't seen it before. I think
because it's it's been showing up. I think it's showing
up in football because to your point, it's probably always

(38:16):
been there. Somebody was doing it, but nobody cared enough
to really go deep diving into it. But now when
you start looking at the other sports and you're finding
it constantly. But I think what happened is the prop
bets made it different because now it's not about it's
not about winning. I don't have to throw the game

(38:37):
if I'm I can. I can literally make a bet
that says, you know, the point guard to WVU, his
first shot is going to be a three point shot.
I can make that bet probably somewhere, and if he
makes it, then I can win. So it's not about
you don't have to like throw the game, but you
don't have to, like you know, your ethical or memorial
standard doesn't have to be compromised. You could just say, hey,

(38:58):
I'll take that first three and I'll collect whatever.

Speaker 2 (39:01):
You know, this guy's gonna pay me.

Speaker 1 (39:02):
So so I think it's just I think to your point,
that's what's opening up because you have such the variety
of bets and in ways than which you can bet.

Speaker 2 (39:11):
And do you think the guys who.

Speaker 1 (39:12):
Are are getting tied up in this type of betting,
do you think that they think, like, like, it's not
me really betting, because I'm not really betting. I'm not
going to really like necessarily gambling. It's just that they're
not saying I don't have to throw the game. I
don't have to. I don't have to risk throwing a game.

Speaker 4 (39:32):
They don't feel morally, yeah I can do that. Yeah,
it's not a big deal.

Speaker 1 (39:37):
I don't think of looking as like an ethical or
moral issue as it relates to playing or keeping the
sanctity of the game. I don't think they're looking at
it like that. It's just like it's one little thing
I can do it. So I think that's probably one
thing that's going to have to go.

Speaker 4 (39:51):
Okay, So who who, though, who decides the bets have
to go.

Speaker 1 (39:55):
I think it's going to have to be a combination
of the leagues in the in the gaming books and
seeing I don't think I don't think they have I
don't think they have a partnership. Well. I think what
happens is that I know I can't specifically remember which one,
but I know one of them limited, so you can
only bet up to like two hundred bucks. I think
it maybe want to parlay in some prop bets so
you can only there's a max of how much you

(40:15):
can bet, how many times you can bet it. So
I think in their mind, well, you're not gonna win
big money, so you can't bet like five hundred thousand
dollars on this prop bet anymore. So I think they're
trying to do things like that without necessarily like eliminating
them totality.

Speaker 2 (40:29):
But I think too. If it's available.

Speaker 1 (40:32):
To me, if I have access to it as a player,
that's really not your fault, you know, because you're not
really as the as the gambling organization. It's really not
your your responsibility for me to go. My rule is
I'm not supposed to be able to gamble, so I
should not go. Okay, I should not. I should not gamble.

(40:55):
So the moment that I come, nobody's in front of me.
I don't think I'm going to get come again. The
issues not gambling per se. The issue is fixing the game,
manipulating it. That's the issue. That's the issues Like Damon Jones,
But as far as related to him, I want to say,
Damon Jones, well, one of the NBA guys, his issue

(41:18):
wasn't gambling per se. His issue was given the inside information,
who's not playing, who's not playing?

Speaker 2 (41:23):
Who said now?

Speaker 1 (41:24):
Who injured contributes issue? So that's what Muddy's in toxic
the water.

Speaker 4 (41:29):
Because but he's placing money and it's betting on something,
and any type of betting is a form of gambling.

Speaker 1 (41:35):
I'm talking about No, no, no, I'm not talking you're you
guys are right on that, But that's not the issue.
The issue is them releasing inside information or I'm fixing
something to.

Speaker 4 (41:46):
Help this, helping the gambling, they're helping the games.

Speaker 2 (41:50):
They're manipulating the game because.

Speaker 1 (41:53):
And you're letting Lisa know that I'm not playing this,
you're not playing she can make a bet related to
that somehow. So that's that's the issue. And I'm saying
if it was just gambling, that's one thing. But when
we're actually you're manipulating the books, that's where you're gonna
have a problem.

Speaker 2 (42:09):
Man.

Speaker 1 (42:09):
And eventually it's gonna come to you know, somebody's gonna
throw a fix a game and it's gonna be a
big one.

Speaker 8 (42:14):
Let me ask you this, how far of separation do
you think it's gotta be. Let's say NBA player A
decides he wants to gamble nothing that involves him or
his team, but he wants to bet on something that
involves player B. Do you think that players should be
able to bet on other teams, other players in the
league or.

Speaker 2 (42:35):
That's crazy because and I know and I know what
it is now.

Speaker 1 (42:40):
I think if like, if I play in the NBA,
I can bet on the NFL, But I'm not supposed
to bet on the NBA again. I just think it
muddies the water because we know all these NBA guys,
they have relationships.

Speaker 2 (42:51):
So it's just if I'm.

Speaker 1 (42:52):
Gonna make that prop bet on my this guy that
I know, I play for the Laker, he plays for Dallas,
it's just the yeah, look right, because we don't know
how that can manipulate it. I just I think I
just think at some point the leagues are going to
have to fight a different revenue stream. I don't think
it's a league. I can be fully in this. I

(43:13):
can be fully vested in this. This could be a
sponsor of mine. I can have the star of my
league in Draft Lebron James is in Draft King commercial
I know, yes, Like like how like what are we doing?
And you're gonna and I'll make the case he may
not even drink. He might be that athlete that don't
that that doesn't drink, Yeah, that doesn't gamble, but he's
gonna be in it, yeah because it's Draft King.

Speaker 2 (43:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (43:36):
Well, but here's the other part of it. Guys, And
I know what you're saying about, like you shouldn't be
allowed to to bet in your you can, like if
you're an NFL player. You can bet on NBA, but
you can't bet on NFL stuff, right, But all of
these professional athletes kind of run in the same circles
and and so you know, they're they're all in the
same you know, income brackets, so to speak. So they're

(43:58):
going to the same parties, they know this same people.
You know that. There are all good points, you know.
So so really there's not a whole lot of differentiation
between betting one professional sport from another. Now, college is
a whole different animal, we're not we're not talking about that.
But at the professional level, these guys don't know each other.

Speaker 2 (44:15):
That's true. That's a good point, Listen, that's a good point.

Speaker 1 (44:17):
I just think, I think in order to maintain the
safety to the game, to to not corrupt it to
a point where people don't believe it, where it becomes WWE,
I think you.

Speaker 2 (44:27):
Just got to get rid of it.

Speaker 4 (44:28):
That's just the faith of fans.

Speaker 1 (44:30):
I think, lose the faith. I think you just got
it at some point. It's got to be a total
separation like it was before. And and because if you
if you, if you, if you just try to say
that if a player gets caught gambling at this level,
it's you're out. You can't do anything, Like you should

(44:51):
not be able to bet on any sport at all
because you're because you're in it, you know what I'm saying,
Like you like you're you're the basketball player, I'm the
football player.

Speaker 2 (45:01):
We're buddies.

Speaker 1 (45:02):
We went to the same college, Hollis. Won't you let
me know some information? You know it's such and such
playing you know, Okay, I'll let you know.

Speaker 2 (45:12):
Were easy to do this, that's.

Speaker 1 (45:14):
So easy to do, particularly now we could just do
somebody exactly. I just, like I said, I just think
I don't know, you gotta get rid of it. That's
just my opinion. And it's got to be a hard
line and it's got to be a wall in between
that so it doesn't cross.

Speaker 4 (45:28):
And I'm totally in agreement. But I don't know how
it happens with revenue. I mean, you know that they're
so neat, they're so deep into the money part of it,
the revenue that they're generating, being in bed with all
these gambling platforms. I don't see it happening anytime soon.

Speaker 9 (45:42):
I'm trying to figure out, like, like how how did
this all just start to develop, Like, you know, where's
the startup of making the connections with the NFL player,
the NBA player, Like who's making that is that?

Speaker 1 (46:01):
Are we making the case that that's somebody in the
mafia or because I got to be available for you?
I don't see if you're the mafia guy, if you're
the head guy, why am I even How do I
even know you? How do we know each other? How
do we get to this point? It's like, if you're
hanging around people at a certain tackle income bracket, it's
going to be guys in the underworld who make that

(46:23):
same level of money.

Speaker 2 (46:24):
So and if you're a.

Speaker 1 (46:25):
Person who likes to play cards or this or that,
then you know, one thing leads to another and then
you find yourself maybe owning a couple million or a
couple hundred thousand, which you can't pay right now. So
I think it's probably easier than what we think. And
like I said, if you're just in this environment where
it's gambling just is omnipresent, it's all around you, it's

(46:48):
stuff like it's going on.

Speaker 4 (46:49):
And I think that the root of all of it
is years ago when they legalized online gambling. I mean
it went from having to go to a casino to
place a bet and you know, do things in person,
to just all access for everybody. And when they started that,
it just the ball just started rolling and it just
kind of infiltrated sports and every other aspect in society.

Speaker 7 (47:11):
Well.

Speaker 8 (47:11):
And it was a it was a Supreme Court ruling
in twenty eighteen was the big one because it used
to be that every state had control over whether or
not they legalize it, and then that shot that down.
And so that's what opened up all these you know,
bet MGM, draft kings, that type of stuff, because now
it's nationwide.

Speaker 4 (47:30):
Yes, you're right, you're right, you're absolutely right.

Speaker 2 (47:33):
I don't. I can't.

Speaker 1 (47:35):
I can't honestly say I can ever remember like any
form of betting, gambling of any sort being a commercial.

Speaker 2 (47:48):
You know, even even being at the game. Yeah, you
know the video board is.

Speaker 1 (47:54):
Going to have you know, some something up there, whether
it's alcohol or gambling, there's gonna be something like that there. Yes,
And why would why would you? Why would the why
would the ownership? And this is a bad example, but
get in bed with all of these types of organizations

(48:19):
where yeah, I get it, it is I know, for fact,
it's money. But how men are you? How are you
correcting me? How can you correct me?

Speaker 2 (48:30):
How you're gonna tell me?

Speaker 1 (48:31):
I guess it's just like you can drink, but you
can't drink and drive, So it's limits to it, or
or or or the parent situation of like do as
I say, not as I do, because I think that
I mean, at the end of the day, I really
truly think that that's that's that's really where we are.
But I think we're gonna lose. I think we're gonna

(48:54):
lose a lot of a lot of the fan base.
Let one big scandal come out.

Speaker 2 (49:01):
Of a football team. Yeah, let's say a Super Bowl.

Speaker 4 (49:06):
People already complained, they said, oh, it's fixed.

Speaker 5 (49:08):
I mean, the time you're hearing that the NFL fixed,
every call.

Speaker 4 (49:13):
It's going to take is one, Like you said, one scandal,
and that's just gonna solidify the idea that it's all fixed.

Speaker 1 (49:20):
I'm done with, you know. Yeah, and you're gonna lose
your fan base.

Speaker 7 (49:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 8 (49:24):
Well, and like leagues like the NBA, I mean, they're
already like fifty percent viewership down. Then you add in
stuff like this, I don't think that's going to help
them at.

Speaker 1 (49:33):
All at all, and I and I really really really
think that it could sink, yeah, the NFL.

Speaker 4 (49:41):
Like I may sink the NBA. And to your point, Matt,
I mean there they were already on the edge of
some problems anyway financially, so this isn't good.

Speaker 2 (49:52):
All right.

Speaker 1 (49:52):
And to that point, let's say your team, you find
out that your team is running the scandal. So like
all of a sudden, I figure out like some some
people have been betting at the Viking or through the
Viking organization.

Speaker 2 (50:09):
How do you how do you react to that? Like,
is that like I'm no longer involved with them.

Speaker 4 (50:14):
But I think it would be even harder. I mean
not just for the person who watches them on TV
from week to week, but those season ticket holders, those
people who shell out the money, yeah, week to week,
you know, being a fan, going to the games when
they're at home, and you know all all the things
that come with that. I mean, the people that are
really investing their money, which is a lot of blue

(50:35):
collar people, you know, that's that's the NFL fan base.
And when they find out that, you know, there's been
some tinkering with their team, you know that that's gonna
they'll be disillusioned and a lot of them will pull
their money away from that. I would, I think I would.
I mean, if that's what happens, it.

Speaker 2 (50:50):
Would be hard It would be hard pressed for me to.

Speaker 1 (50:54):
To go to a Viking game under the under the
con concept of of knowing that someone has someone has
been or is in the process we're finding out that
they're gambling or whatever. I don't even know, like like

(51:17):
why would I even be involved quote in the team
aspect of that. Yeah, And I think that's the and
I think that's I think that's what the NFL doesn't
really or in the NBA and even baseball, like you
don't understand like how fragile the fan base former players

(51:40):
when you're already getting I'm looking at you and you're
a current player and you're making all this kind of money.
I made this little bit of money when I was playing,
and the next thing I find out is is you're
you're in a gambling scheme.

Speaker 2 (51:51):
Why am I?

Speaker 4 (51:52):
Like, that's a tough pill.

Speaker 1 (51:54):
Yeah, this is one of those deals like morals, ethic,
sanctity of the game versus capitalism. So how was it
so you went to Minnesota this week?

Speaker 2 (52:03):
How was it this weekend? It was?

Speaker 1 (52:06):
It was actually it was really good. It was cold, man,
it was cold. We we went we went maybe like
about five or six different places we go to like
little sports bars and stuff.

Speaker 2 (52:18):
Like that, and and.

Speaker 1 (52:19):
And sign and and and the best thing about it
is like a lot of these folks are probably never
They're never going to be have an opportunity to maybe
go to a game or meet a player. And so
so when you're going, are you going to Minneapolis? Are
you going to just traveling the state?

Speaker 2 (52:40):
We're out. Yeah, we're out.

Speaker 1 (52:41):
We're we're probably at We went about an hour and
a half, I think was the furthest trip outside of Minneapolis.
We took an hour and a half and we stayed.
We stayed to night and shoot, I can't even remember
the town. But and these are like towns that like
I didn't even know the names of them when I
was there.

Speaker 2 (52:59):
That's cool. But man, the fan base is so there.

Speaker 1 (53:05):
It's it's it makes you feel good because like they're
they're going crazy, like I mean, you know, they're and
the biggest guy, Tommy Kramer, who is is he's really
slow now you know he's you know, he doesn't drink anymore.
He may drink some non alcoholic beer, but he's like

(53:27):
everybody wants his signature.

Speaker 2 (53:30):
Everybody.

Speaker 1 (53:31):
If you're standing there and you've got one pitcher left
and Tommy's got a line of one hundred people, they're
gonna be the one hundred and one person.

Speaker 2 (53:40):
And and they just and they just they just love him,
and and I.

Speaker 1 (53:46):
Feel I feel like I feel bad because I don't
know if he even can he's he's even able to
appreciate it when you're out there like that.

Speaker 4 (53:56):
You know, do you guys end up at the game
on Sunday?

Speaker 2 (53:59):
We No, we didn't get to the game this.

Speaker 4 (54:01):
You didn't get to see the Bears beat the.

Speaker 1 (54:03):
Viking Sunday, So so this will Can we make sure
this is Lista's last show?

Speaker 4 (54:13):
Get my pink slip ready as usual? They have a
stock there, Carl. They just handed to me when I
walk out the door.

Speaker 2 (54:21):
This is this is your last show? For sure.

Speaker 1 (54:24):
It was that was a that was really like and
we didn't watch like we weren't like in depth into it,
but we got it down.

Speaker 2 (54:32):
When you get down to the end of the game.

Speaker 1 (54:33):
It's like, how do we how do you how do
you lose that, and then what and then what here's
the here's the benefit of being like a former player.
I'm sure, I'm one hundred percent sure we've lost games
like that, right, yeah, but I can't understand why they're
losing them like that. Now you know it's because the
exactly yeah, I mean.

Speaker 4 (54:55):
And and.

Speaker 1 (54:58):
Keith Mallard is a guy that you know, a lot
of people might not know his name, but he he
he comes, and he's a he's probably like about six
five and probably right now he's probably about to forty
or whatever. He was Defensive Player of the Year. I

(55:19):
think he was a runner up another year after in
between that, and he was one of the best pass
rushers that we had had that we had had, especially
as an inside guy.

Speaker 2 (55:35):
And the crazy thing about him is like he is.

Speaker 1 (55:37):
So if somebody hears this, they'll they'll they'll they'll they'll
think differently.

Speaker 2 (55:45):
But he's like.

Speaker 1 (55:46):
He's so cool and calm and collective. But he like
he has his temper.

Speaker 4 (55:51):
Is like short, short, like like doesn't take it.

Speaker 1 (55:56):
Doesn't take much. Like he like, man, let's just go,
let's why we got to still be here. But he
is like the like the really like the greatest dude
that that I think, like that maybe that I played
with And when it comes to like he's not coming
to Minnesota if guys that he likes are not coming,

(56:17):
regardless of what you're paying, he ain't coming. He ain't
getting on the plane. He's checking to see you know
who's here. Yeah, he has never And the crazy thing
about it, he's never lost that true quote teammate thing,
that loyalty to your teammate. I mean, that's that is

(56:38):
that's embedded in him today. Yeah, you know, and and
I wish I had that. But I love him, you know,
just because like you know, it's kind of that deal
like where you can see and appreciate somebody who loves you.

Speaker 2 (56:53):
He would, he would, he would do anything to protect you. Wow.

Speaker 4 (56:58):
You know, And maybe that's what the game needs right now,
you know, just overall, just a little bit of love.

Speaker 2 (57:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (57:05):
Again, and to your point, Lisa, I don't really know
if the league, if players build that relationship like old days.
You know they do, man, you think they do. I
would hope, you know what I'm saying. Again, we don't know,
but we've seen the good teams. You look at the
you know, the ravens, look at the Chief, look at

(57:26):
the Bill. They seem to have a synergy amongst them.
And when you have those guys who sort of step
out of line, they figure out a way to get
rid of these guys quick. So I hope that's still
the case because I think that, you know, we need,
we have to do whatever we can do to just
hold onto some semblance of you know, just that traditional
sporting thing like where these guys can capture a piece

(57:49):
of our imagination and we can just sort of live
vicariously through them as they you know, their career. And
to that, I think to show the younger general of
what teamwork looks like, what role models are supposed to be,
you know, all of those kinds of things. I think
it is really I think it's hard to do that now, man,

(58:11):
because you're just so overexposed about everything. Like I think
a part of like that role model part of that,
you know, if you look at Michael Jordan's that mystique,
right you see him on a commercial may seem in
a movie, but you're not seeing him like every day.

Speaker 2 (58:25):
You're not liked g all the time.

Speaker 1 (58:28):
And I think sometimes the more these guys talk, the
more you're just like, geez, you know that, stop talking?

Speaker 2 (58:37):
You know. Yeah, well.

Speaker 1 (58:41):
I'll say and I don't want to like to throw
throw mud on current players, but we were always kind
of taught, like even in an interview. So if I'm
having an interview after the game and I let's say
I get a game winning interception, DA, what's my conversation about.

Speaker 2 (59:00):
It's about the d lineman.

Speaker 1 (59:01):
You know, how they had been put put pressure on him,
you know, and that that forced that quarterback to not
it was never going to be about your yourself. And
I don't know if coaches coach that or teach that,
or players get that or understand that, because I think
it's I think it is really now a truly individualized

(59:22):
if I'm the star, if I think I'm the best
player on that team. Because I don't think you were
concerned about the personal brand of Carl Lee. No, I
don't think that was the fourth thought. I think for
some guys it was, but it was everything. I think
it happened to them. They understood like they like it.
It was put on them. A guy like Anthony Carter

(59:44):
a se you know, he his legacy was was was
given to him. He didn't want it, and he didn't.

Speaker 2 (59:50):
Live up to.

Speaker 1 (59:50):
What I'm saying is that even though got like a
guy now in the NFL, you don't have to be
a superstar in order to attract an audience. So like,
if I have the opportunity to have the mic and
I say something salacious or outrageous, then ask people want
to be checking my ig and protecting my social media.

Speaker 2 (01:00:07):
So yeah, so it's like I can build a.

Speaker 1 (01:00:08):
Personal brand and I don't have to be like the
biggest thing out or the nicest guy. I don't got
to be the nicest guy. I can build on. However,
I want to build it, and if I can get attention,
that's good enough for me.

Speaker 2 (01:00:17):
For some guys, bro anything else.

Speaker 1 (01:00:21):
Yeah. All right, well, ladies and gentlemen, we're gonna get
out of here and we will see you again next week.

Speaker 3 (01:00:26):
Let's Talk with Carl Lee as presented by Attorney Frank
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(01:00:47):
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