April 20, 2025 • 40 mins
In the icy waters of Twofold Bay, a strange alliance once thrived between man and whale. At the heart of it was Old Tom, a killer whale unlike any other—who, along with his pod, helped human whalers hunt baleen whales in exchange for first dibs on the spoils.
This wasn’t legend. It was a documented partnership that spanned generations, built on eerie trust and uncanny understanding. But like many good things, it didn’t last. When Old Tom's body washed ashore in 1930, the bond between species died with him.
Join Holly & Matthew as they explore the extraordinary story of Old Tom and the Killers of Twofold Bay.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/weird-crap-in-australia--2968350/support.
This wasn’t legend. It was a documented partnership that spanned generations, built on eerie trust and uncanny understanding. But like many good things, it didn’t last. When Old Tom's body washed ashore in 1930, the bond between species died with him.
Join Holly & Matthew as they explore the extraordinary story of Old Tom and the Killers of Twofold Bay.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/weird-crap-in-australia--2968350/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
A strange, spiraling white light was spotted in the early
morning sky over Sydney, with even skeptical witnesses wondering if
it was a UFO. They were last seen on the
beach with a tall man and that's the best description
police have ever.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Had of it. More than seventeen years after Harold Holt
disappeared into raging surf at Chevy a Beach, his widow
has finally revealed his last romantic words docky, terrifying, mesmerizing.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
That's the way a number of Australians have described the
alleged encounter with the Yowi. It's time for the Weird
Crap in Australia podcast. Welcome to the week Crap in
(00:45):
Australia Podcast, Amy host Matthew Soul Hope everyone is doing
well out there. How are you doing, Holly the Researcher extraordinaire?
Speaker 2 (00:53):
All right, how are you?
Speaker 1 (00:55):
I am good? Before we jump into the episode, just
a couple of quick points or erased us by another fan,
So I just want to do a couple of quick
corrections in regards to my comments about the RSL club.
This comes to us via our mate Frank. I do
want to correct you on a couple of things around
(01:16):
RSL and RSL clubs. When it was first established post
World War One, it was called the Returns Serviceman's League,
was exclusively for those who had deployed to war and
we're lucky or unlucky enough to return to Australia. This
train continued until post Vietnam War. By that stage it
was the veterans of World War II and Korea running
the RSL, and as you stated, they made it difficult
(01:36):
for Vietnam veterans to joint with claims that it wasn't
a real war. Between the end of the Vietnam War
and nineteen ninety nine when we went to East t
or now Team or Leased, there was a period of peace.
During that time Australia sent soldiers on a number of
peacekeeping operations, generally in African countries. During this time, the
RSL went through a name change to become the Returned
(01:57):
in Serviceman's League and allowed those sold just sailors and
airman who had served but not deployed to war to
join the league. The next thing you need to realize
is that the RSL and RSL clubs are run as
separate entities. This was saying, I didn't know, Holly, you
could almost like a license franchise. Yeah. RSL clubs are
(02:17):
run as separate entities. While many of the clubs are
run by a sub branch, not all sub branches run clubs,
with many smaller ones relying on fundraising activities such as
raffles and badge sales nearing Anzac Day and Remembrance Day.
There are also a number of RSL clubs that are
not associated with RSL sub branches but have permission to
use the name. In regards to not having to be
to war recently, we did spend twenty years post nine
(02:40):
to eleven in a war on terror in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Australia lost forty one soldiers in Afghanistan, including an explosive
detection dog handler Sappa spr Darren Smith, who was one
of my soldiers before becoming a handler, and he sent
us through a picture which I obviously can't show you,
but thank you very much for reaching us to us, Frank.
We especially like to hear from our service people and
(03:01):
of course raise some very very good points there, especially
when I said, as Frank pointed out that in relative
peace time, which we have experienced that we haven't had well,
of course we have, you know, in those much smaller conflicts.
Sometimes what happens with me as I get caught up
in the bigger sides of history and I very much
(03:21):
forget about those smaller instances, and we always appreciate those corrections.
So Frank, thank you very much for sending through that email.
We very much appreciate it. All Right, time to completely
move on to something different and not any more Gangland shit,
because I've had a fuck enough of it.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
We're even leaving Victoria, that's how much we've fucking had
enough of it.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
We'd like to say thank you to everyone. Of course,
I'm sure that there will be plenty of you who
are like, hey, you missed this, So you could have
done that, and we could have, but that would have
turned a seven episode, eight episode series, seven seven episode
series into a podcast in and of itself, so at
a certain point we did have to call it quit. However,
we are definitely open to read visiting the Gangland Wars
(04:01):
in the future. Today, as is often our want, we
have put together a little episode to bridge our gap
between two series. We will funnily enough be jumping into
World War One territory next week in time for Inzac Day,
saying that people have wanted for quite some time. But
before we get there, let's tell you all a feel
(04:22):
good story about the Australian version of free Willye Holy,
take it away. This is episode three hundred and fifty nine.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
The whaling industry in Australia has been dead for a
very long time, officially since the burning of whaling in
nineteen seventy eight, but realistically since the integration of plastics
and more manufactured methods of lighting and lubrication. In Australian society.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Whale oil was used for all manners of things as
well yeap, soap, lamps, lube for machinery, just burning lamps.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
The bones were used in clothing and to reinforce things
like tents and stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Yeah, jewelry, the ivory scrimshaw trade.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Whales were a big part of industry right up until
they were replaced.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
One of the key whaling areas in New South Wales
was the area around Eden. This small town, which sits
atop a hill overlooking Twofold Bay, was home to one
of the more successful whaling operations in the nineteenth and
twentieth century. But this is not only because of the
hard work of the humans who did the whaling themselves. No,
the people of Twofold Bay had a secret weapon, one
(05:29):
which would deploy itself when a whale was sighted. This
is a story of Old Tom, the orca and the
relationship of his pod to the humans who lived and
worked on the boats. But what's an orca? Well, for
those of you who don't know, they're the fun little
black and white killing machines that are best known from Seawell,
such as Tillicum, the Serial Killer and from the movie
(05:49):
Free Willie.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
Yeah. So, if anyone has watched the documentary Blackfish, it
concerns predominantly a orca named Tillicum, who ended up being
associated with the deaths of about six people. I believe
there are a couple of trainers. There was a drunk
guy who got into the enclosure, and there's been a
lot of debate, especially from animal behavioralists, whether this is
(06:15):
purposeful aggressive behavior or a SeaWorld likes to say that
Tillicomb is actually killing just because he's doing it by
accident and frequently so.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
There have been four deaths to humans in interactions with
captive orcas. Three of them were Tillico Policom.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Yeah, one of the trainers he caught, he absolutely pummeled
her to death, drowned her, and then scalped her. And
again SeaWorld likes to say that, well, you know, he
was just playing like he didn't realize his own strength, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.
But orcas have a very impressive development in the emotional
(06:56):
parts of their brain. So if you take an animal
that is used to being, if you know, having strong
social bonds and being kept with family, and you put
them into a situation where other aggressive whales who also
are suffering through the same sort of conditions, are constantly
beating the shit out of him, and then you move
(07:16):
him from small location a small location, a small location.
Eventually that animal is going to get pissed and act out.
And that's exactly what he did.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
So Tillicum scalped the second trainer that he killed, and
was quite first one he just drowned.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
So that's the reality of orcas in captivity, which we
will say emphatically, we do not believe in keeping those
sort of animals in captivity. Number one, we don't have
the space for them so that they don't, you know,
they develop a series of health problems, especially pneumonia. It's
what a lot of orcas in captivity die of. We
also don't believe in keeping those sort of emotionally intelligent
(07:53):
animals locked away because it's not good for them in
any way, shape or form. Me personally, I would like
to see it that we pretty much empty zoos. The
reason that we can't do that and shouldn't do that
at the moment is because zoos work a lot to
help in conservation. But in that perfect world, all these
animals would be able to live in their own habitats
(08:14):
without human interaction.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
There's also a lot of issues with releasing captive born
creatures into.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
The wild, absolutely, and it's a problem. Interestingly enough, Holy
you mentioned Free Willy there now, that was another captive
orca who was used for that movie. Eventually they did
release him. The problem is that orca pods generally developed
their own language, and so they know how to communicate
with each other. So you can't take an orca that's
been essentially in captivity for a long time that shows
(08:43):
a lot of less wearing us towards humans and expect
him to integrate with the Scandinavian pod halfway across the world.
And that's unfortunately what they attempted to do with that
particular orca, and it sadly didn't take. He was just
too he liked hanging out with humans because he was
conditioned too. So yeah, but orcas generally in the wild
(09:05):
are not like that whatsoever.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Orcus scientific name or Sinus Orca along Australia's East Coast
represent a powerful and culturally significant population. I bet most
people didn't actually realize that there were orcas in Australian waters.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
I definitely I did it until we went to this
museum to learn about this story. No, no, I had
no idea.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
I thought it was all late North Atlantic kind of stuff.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Yeah, need too.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Though part of the global species, these orcas exhibit distinct
behaviors and patterns that set them apart from their counterparts
in other regions. Biologically, they are apex predators, reaching up
to nine meters in length and weighing over five tons,
with striking black and white coloration, chronical teeth, and large,
highly developed brains. They're intelligence survivals that of primates, allowing
(09:49):
for complex social structures, problem solving and coordinated hunting techniques.
These are all good things to have when you're a
torpedo of mussel in a very big puddle of water.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
And this is one of those things where people like, well,
you know, if orcers were so intelligent, why aren't they
building rocket ships? Well, it's you know, intelligence in animals,
and humans are an animal. Don't forget that. I did
see a debate on there were people saying debating whether
humans fall into the category of animal.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
We're a mammal. We're an animal.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
We're a mammal. We're not a distinct species.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
We're a family.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Yeah, we're not a distinct family. We're part of the
primate species. Anyway, that that being put to the side,
people will often get confused, you know when you say,
look that an animal is very intelligent, and they go, well,
not as intelligent and as us. Well, orcas have the
same breadth of emotions as humans have. They have a
(10:46):
very developed is it frontal lobe or amgnala, Yeah, it's
highly developed. So they feel emotion just like we do.
Their pods and their regions determine their language. So one
orca singing it does not necessarily mean they'll be able
to communicate with another pot of orcers, so they do
form strong familiar bonds, and they do have their own
(11:10):
individualistic languages and regional dialects. That in itself is about
as intelligent as humans are.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Try getting a Scottish orca to talk to us South
Africa Orca. That'll be fun.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
They would have a lot of difficulty communicating. So you know,
that's what we're talking about when we're talking about intelligent animals.
They're problem solvers. And I think that probably a lot
of human arrogance goes into suggesting that we're the only
species on this planet that is intelligent. You can teach
a guerrilla sign language, orangutens use tools, and orcas build
(11:47):
their communities and have their own language.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
I would argue that those animals are smarter so simply
because of the fact that they don't destroy their.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
Own environment generally not know. Elephants have an incredible memory
that rivals humans and are also problem solvers.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Workers follow a matrilineal social hierarchy, living in stable family
groups led by elder females. These pods typically number between
six and twelve animals, though temporary superpods can form in
times of plentiful prey or during seasonal migrations, such as
that which takes place down the Australian East Coast. Within
these groups, roles and relationships are strongly defined. Knowledge such
(12:26):
as hunting strategies, migratory roots, and vocal dialects are passed
down through generations, indicating a form of cultural transmission rarely
seen outside of humans. Workers are highly adaptable predators. They've
been observed preying on fish, squids, seals, and even whales,
using cooperative techniques like herding, flanking, and creating waves to
(12:46):
dislodge prey. Their movements often mirror seasonal changes in prey populations,
particularly the migrations of baileeen whales along the coast. Vocalizations
essential to orca society in different pods exhibit unique core patterns,
suggesting dis languages within the population. Their reliance on acoustic
communication for coordination and cohesion underlies the importance of social
(13:07):
bonds in their daily lives. Although less studied than other
orca populations such as those off Western Australia, which apparently
has a really big study pool, the East Coast ucers
display all the hallmarks of socially complex, culturally rich marine
predator making their historical interactions with humans all the more astounding.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
Eventually, using artificial intelligence, we will be able to start
to map and be able to program translators so that
we can actually have form of I want to talk
like you kid, Yeah, junglewalk when it comes. And when
(13:47):
I say artificial intelligence, ladies and gentlemen, I'm not talking
about the hollow deck doctor from Star Trek. I'm talking
about essentially algorithms that are able to find patterns within data.
It's not as exciting as it sounds. We will be
able to use that technology to map and maybe at
one point be able to reproduce those vocalizations and actually
(14:08):
have some sort of understanding. That's an interesting philosophical idea,
isn't it.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Just make sure you get the regional dialector right, or
you might be telling someone to go sick. It's an ass.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
Why have you been pooping in our home? Why do
you send your poop out here?
Speaker 2 (14:22):
The local people of Twofold Bay were the Yuen people,
a group of about twelve local dialect groups who lived
along the southern coast from roughly the Shoalhaven River to
Cape Howe. They numbered roughly eleven thousand before the arrival
of Europeans and were decimated through smallpox epidemics of seventeen
eighty nine and eighteen thirty, Whaler's venereal diseases, and into
(14:43):
tribal battles. Their numbers dropped to as little as six
hundred in the mid nineteenth century, but remain as a
people today, with the local Thur people holding native title claims.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
Around Twofold Bay bungen bro was born eighteen twenty one,
also known as Toby, Toby the Kind, and Toby Blue.
He led Oswald Brierley and Benjamin Boyd Overland via traditional
pathways from Eden to Manero in nineteen forty two. Describing
him as a very remarkably intelligent fellow. Very noted that
(15:15):
we were first drunk by the clear manner in which
he answered our inquiries among the customs the Aborigines, and
hid in his quickness when we were retaining from him
the native manner of different objects. In giving these, he
would never be satisfied until we assented them properly, repeating
them over several times until we had caught the rights out,
and then going on to others. Bungenbrough and Brierly became
(15:38):
close friends the young Aboriginal men sharing information about the
land see Culture and Beliefs. Rarely, as manager of Boyd's
whaling operations, appointed bungen Brough as headsman of a boat
crewed wholly by Aboriginal men, Noting the expert way they
handled the boats. The Englishman highlighted that their science is
better when they see the fish sooner than the white men. G. A.
(16:00):
Robinson wrote in eighteen forty four that Turby has a
bird to himself, his name on it, called after his
wife quote from Indigenous Whalers of Twofold Bay, Eden's Killer
Whale Museum. And it's a very interesting moment in Australian
history because in this area, of course, the British colonialists
set up with the intention of whaling and fishing. The
(16:24):
first guy rocks up and he's like, hold my beer,
I've got this, finds that he can't do it and
basically shuns the indigenous population, whereas the second administrator comes
in holly and he is all for the help.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
He's like, what are you guys doing? It's working cool,
show me how to do that.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
Pretty much.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
The most famous of the Ewen are known as the
whalers of Twofold Bay. They worked in a symbiotic relationship
with a local pot of orcers who would assist them
in their hunting for wales. Why would the orcers do this, well,
Family helps family.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
The traditional owners of Twofold Bay, the Ewen people, believe
that the killer whales were the reincarnation of their ancestors.
They would often perform a ritual of leaping between fires
on the beach and pretending to be lame in order
to call the orcas to drive whales to shore and
provide them with food. Now, of course we're not going
to take away the spiritual beliefs of people, but let's
(17:20):
take an approach from an animal behavioralist point of view.
Quite simply, the orcas realized very very quickly that the
squishy little people on boats could actually help them to
get what they wanted, and what they wanted were parts
of the whales to eat. Orcas are very interested in
(17:42):
specific parts of their prey animals. Right now, the great
white shark population is being under threat not by humans
for a change, but for whales. Who are the orcas
the killer whales especially, and we should probably point this
out as well, whales are not whales. They're actually dolphins. Yeah,
(18:03):
they're part of the dolphin family.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
They're all the same family. But it's like us and primates.
Late there's a difference.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
There's a difference between Matthew and an orangutank. Not much
difference because they're smarter than me, but there is some difference.
So the orcas, from their perspective, they want those nice, soft,
fleshy inner parts, right, and it's quite you know, it's
risky for them to take on these larger animals.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Not to mention energy use.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
But suddenly there are these little guys on boats who
are cruising around, throwing spears and assisting them in killing.
So they get what they want and then the little
people get to take it away. And then the killer
whales are very happy with this arrangement, and the humans
are happy with this arrangement because they're coordinating their attacks. Now.
It may not surprise you when you start looking at
(18:55):
this from a evolutionary standpoint, to learn that a lot
of the genetics of our dolphins and whales and other
and orcas, when you start to look at their genetics
and trace it back, it appears that they were once
wolf like animals. They were pack animals and what did
(19:19):
we see in terrestrial wolves that worked with people. We
form this symbiotic relationship, and that's effectively what is happening here.
That's not to talk that, that's not to degenerate somebody's
religious beliefs. I'm not trying to do that. I'm just
trying to also come up with a more scientific minded explanation.
(19:40):
And the reason that I do that is because I
don't have a belief system. I don't have spiritual beliefs,
and so from my perspective, this is how it works.
But if you are a true believer, then that's how
that works from your perspective. And we're allowed to have
two perspectives. Obviously, this is one way conversation. Zigons say
(20:00):
that whatever the fuck I like, you all agree with me? Excellent?
Moving on.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
I don't hear what you just said.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Anyone have any objections? No, moving on.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
The Yorkers would surround the whale and nip at it,
driving it deeper into the bay and eventually to shore.
There the Thuer would be waiting.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
For generations. The Thwer people worked with killer whales to
hunt large whales in the water of Twofold Bay on
the southern coast New South Wales, killer whales commonly known
as orcas would herd their giant prey into shallow or
waters where hunters could spear them. Humans would get the meat,
but the killer whales wanted a delicacy, specifically the tongue
quote from the Conversation dot com.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
This relationship continued on for a very long time, right
up until the Europeans walked to Twofold Bay and realized
that there was good whale hunting in the area. Unlike
the Ewen people, who hunted the whales for food and
oils in a respectful and sustainable fashion, the Europeans who
arrived hunted the local humpback whale population as best they
could from the early eighteen hundreds.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
From the time commercial whaling began in Twofold Bay, local
indigenous peoples were an essential part of the workforce. Their
rowing ability, consistent aim with the harpoon and lands, and
sharper eyesight made them far superior to their European counterparts.
They brought their own traditions and skills to the occupation,
and also proved considerably less likely to abandon the station
(21:23):
mid season. Both the Imlay brothers and Benjamin Boyd relied
on Aboriginals to man their boats. They were a vital
part of the Davidson operation until the very end. In fact,
during the first two decades of the twentieth century, indigenous
whalers formed nearly the entire crew whenever George Davidson put
his boats in the water. That the curries employed in
the whaling industry at Twofold Bay were paid a wage
(21:45):
equal to their white counterparts illustrated their importance. Ote from
Kuri whalers the Teachers of Tradition Eating Killer Whale Museum.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
When the Europeans of Eden arrived, they took the hunting
whales from shore base methods, which were slow in an
inefficient compared to getting in the water with the whales. Initially,
small rowboats were deployed from shore to chase and harpoon
the whales. Once they were speared, the boat would have
to fight the whale and drag it back close enough
to shore for it to be pulled up and have
airborne gravity crushed them to death. This could take hours, days,
(22:17):
even a week until the whale would staff drown or
tire enough to be taken back to shore. It was
dangerous for the humans. It was inhumane for the whales
and it was very hard to make a living. But
not only would they have to fight off the whale,
but the local orcopods would get in on the action,
trying and grab a slice of whale meat. This meant
more teeth, more tails, and more destabilizing waves for the
(22:38):
humans to fight against.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
Whaling n and Eden took off in eighteen twenty eight,
but it wasn't until eighteen forty four that stories of
the peculiar behavior started to emerge. Eyewitnesss talked of orcas
prowling the entrance of Twofold baf migrating humpback, blue, Southern
rhine and mink whales, wrote from the Australian Geographic dot
com au.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
Like the humans, the orcas sought the use of geography
of Twofold Bay to hunt the whales that they ate,
But they only ate the most delicate pieces of the whales,
the lips and tongue, which meant that there was more
of the whale to go around, but the humans hadn't
yet realized the tool they had at their disposal. It
wasn't until the eighteen forties that the European whalers began
to recognize the value of their unexpected allies. The orcas
(23:24):
of Twofold Bay were not just scavengers taking advantage of
a fresh kill. They were strategic, cooperative hunters, and in
time the whalers learned to work with them, just as
the two people had done for generations.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
Zu Wallas. Gist doctor Danielle cold says the relationship was
probably mutual exploitation. Obviously, the killer whales seemed to have
evolved a particular style of hunting that suited the geography
of Eden, whereby they drove the bailing whales into the
bay and used the shallow water to capture them. She says,
the whalers added a new dimension to that and could
kill the bailing whales much quicker quote from Australian Geographic
(24:00):
dot com dot au.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
The system that developed became known as the lore of
the Tongue. It was an unspoken but well understood agreement
between the whalers and the orcas. The killer whales would
help in the hunt and in return there would be
given first pick of the carcass, the lips and the tongue.
The orcas would herd the whales into the bay, harass
and exhaust them and alert the whalers with splashing and breaching.
(24:24):
At times, an orca would even grasp a harpoon line
in its mouth and pull, helping to tire the whale
out faster.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
From around eighteen forty four, commercial whalers work with employed
funer and killer whales to hunt these giants. The pods
of killer whales would find a prize baling whale, purt
it closer to shore and signal the whalers who lived
in the town of Eden. The partnership has no parallel
anywhere in the world. The top predator of the oceans
working with the top predator on the land. Quote from
(24:52):
the Conversation dot com. And this is one of those
things where obviously we don't hunt whales anymore for good
fucking reason, and we shouldn't have been doing it in
the first place.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Most people don't hunt them.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
Most people don't hunt them. Japanese have still been accused
of hunting whales, though even in the I think in
the last ten or so years that trend has definitely
been on the downward spiral. Ye, it doesn't seem to
be happening quite as frequently as it used to. And
then of course you have some Scandinavian countries who still
hunt whales because of the grand old tradition of well,
(25:25):
we've always done it. When you see what happened in
Eden and the effects that sort of flow out of Eden,
you see a cooperation between the environment, the indigenous people
and the settlers. And when you look at that little township,
you can see the signs of integration are still there
(25:47):
because for generations everyone was treated equally. Now one would
be fair to turn around and say they're only treated
well because they offered a service, and they wouldn't be
wrong in saying that. That is one hundred percent correct
to say that. But isn't it always interesting when we
work with things, we work with other people, we always
seem to be able to achieve more and quicker than
(26:09):
when we're divided. Something to keep in mind, everyone is
a potential ally, everyone has a potential friend, and we
can learn a lot from each other. If we stop
being so fucking tribal all the time and stop looking
for ways to hurt each other, you end up with
much better results. Believe it or not.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
One Orca in particular, became legendary Old Tom. Old Tom
was the most famous of the Eden orcas, easily recognizable
by his distinctive ball dorsal fin and his unusual behavior
around humans. He would actively seek out the whalers, sometimes
even nudging their boats to encourage them to follow him
out to sea. If a whale was sighted, Old Tom
(26:50):
and his pod would begin their work, driving the massive
creature into shallower waters. Once the whale was harpooned, the
orcers would seize hold of the ropes and drag it further,
keeping the strain on the animal until it was too
exhausted to fight back.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
Many Twofold Bay Killers were named because of the local
thuler law that they were the reborn spirits of ancestors
gone before. Young artists and local whaling station manager Oswald
Brearley recorded the custom in nineteen forty three, and the
tradition was adopted and carried on by some European whalers,
most notably the Davidson family. Among the names of those
(27:22):
recorded were Cooper, Charlie, Fishner, Jackson, Big Ben, Little Ben
or Young Ben, Charlie, Adjuri, Brearley, Albert Walker, Big Jack,
Little Jack, Skinner, Montague, as well as the large male
known as Old Tom. So familiar were the whales were
the killers that they recognized them by the unique physical
characteristics of their dorsal fins and saddle markings, a practice
(27:45):
now standard for identifying orcas in the wild. Quote from
Known by name Eden Killer Whale Museum.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
One of the most famous stories of Old Tom's intelligence
and cooperation involved a young whaler named George Davidson. His
family was heavily involved in Eden's whaling industry. According to legend,
during one hunt, George fell into the water and was
in danger of drowning. Old Tom swam to his side,
allowing him to grab onto his dorsal fin and pulling
him back to his boat. This cemented Old Tom's reputation
(28:16):
not just as a hunting partner, but as a true
friend of the whaler's.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
In February eighteen ninety one, two whale boats from the
vessel Star of the East were dispatched after a huge
sperm whale. After being harpooned, the whale dived eight hundred
feet before the line slackened and the whale rose up
under one boat, smashing it to pieces before sounding again.
The dying whale resurfaced about sunset and was winched to
(28:40):
the vessel for immediate processing. After the huge liver and
stomach were hoisted on board, rhythmic movements like something trying
to Breathe came from the great paunch, so the whalers
cut it open. Out came a boot on a trousered leg,
and there was James Bartley, one of the missing crewmen,
doubled up, unconscious but still living after fifteen hours in
(29:01):
the belly of a whale. Its digestive juices had permanently
bleached his skin at deathly white. He lost his hair,
was nearly blind for two weeks, he was delirious, and
a month before he could tell how he'd fallen into
the whale's mouth, felt the huge teeth grate over him
as he slid down into its throat, then stomach, in
which live fish were flapping. This modern Jonah lived eighteen
(29:24):
more years, dying at the ripe old age of thirty nine,
from the official records of British Admiralty. Before diving, sperm
whales inhaled deeply and rapidly, storing oxygen and muscle fibers, tissues,
and blood, thus enabling them to remain under water for
over an hour. For they frequently dive more than a
mile deep searching the ocean floor for giant squid? Could
(29:45):
it possibly be that James Bartley survived through the storing
up of such oxygen? On a small sign attached to
the board fake news question mark. The story of James
Bartley was first published in English newspaper in June eighteen
ninety one. The story reappeared in newspapers including Australia between
nineteen twenty eight and nineteen eighty five. The wife of
(30:06):
the captain of the whaler Star of the East wrote
publicly that the event did not occur, and historians have
failed to find any confirmation of this story, including one
James Bartley. Although an intriguing story, this remains an early
example of fake news. Quote from a tale of a
whale in a modern jonah eat a killer whale? You
seem yes. Sometimes, ladies and gentlemen, when we think something
(30:28):
is true or it sounds too good to be true,
quite often it is too good to be true, which
is exactly what happened in this case. You cannot live
inside the belly of a whale for fifteen hours. It's
just not going to happen.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
No, Because the thing that happens is your stomach gets
crushed as you're digesting, so even if you survive, it
will not be fun and it will not be long.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
And just as a reminder before people point to us
about the story of Jonah and the whale, it was
his faith in God that protected him from being consumed
by the whale, not a natural occurring event in the world.
Just to help out our theologians out there.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
The relationship between the orcas and the whalers lasted for decades,
but it was always a fragile balance. By the earlier
twentieth century, the Eden whaling industry was in decline. Steam
powered ships and explosive harpoons had revolutionized commercial whaling elsewhere
in the world, making Eden's traditional shore based operations outdated.
Were still the Orcas were being seen as competitors now
(31:32):
rather than allies. In nineteen twenty three, tragedy struck a
group of visiting whalers, unfamiliar with the law of the
tongue that any whale the Orcas assisted in would be
given the tongue and lips for themselves as a reward,
and who didn't know of the symbiotic relationship between whalers
and orcas killed Old Tom's pod mates elsewhere along the coast.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
Soon after his death, Old Tom's pods stopped appearing in
two Fold Bay. Perhaps it was related to his death,
but another theory is that the remainder of the pod
was hunted down in Jervis Bay, about three hundred kilometers
up the coast, by oblivious Norwegian whalers. Either way, this
is why we can't have nice things. Quote from Scientific
America dot com.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
Killer whales become less common in Twofold Bay of a
stranded whale on Astling Beach in nineteen oh one, far
from the thirty strong pod that originally traveled the waters.
Only seven members returned in nineteen oh two, and after
that only a few lone males, including Hooky and Old Tom, returned.
After nineteen oh three. When Old Tom returned to the bay,
he was alone. He continued his usual routine, trying to
(32:37):
alert the whalers and drag harpoon lines, but without his pod,
the hunts became more difficult. Some accounts suggests he grew
more erratic and his health declined. In nineteen thirty, Old
Tom was found dead into Fold Bay, his body washing
ashore near the whaling station. His skeleton was cleaned and
preserved and is now on display at the Eden Killer
Whale Museum, a testament to the remarkable bond between humans
(32:59):
and this particular pod.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
Acers We extracted and sequenced DNA from Old Tom using
ancient DNA techniques. Genomic sequences were then compared with a
global data set of mitochondrial and nuclear genomes. Old Tom
shared a most recent common ancestor with killer whales from Australasia,
the North Atlantic and the North Pacific, having the highest
genetic similarity with contemporary New Zealand killer whales. However, much
(33:23):
of the variation found in Old Tom's genome was not
shared with these widespread populations, suggesting ancestral rather than ongoing
gene flow. Our genetic comparisons also failed to find any
clear descendants of Tom, raising the possibility of the local
extinction of this group. Quote from ancestry testing of Old Tom,
a killer whale central to mutualistic interactions with human whales
(33:44):
from academic dot AUP dot com.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
With Old Tom's death, the Golden Age of cooperative whaling ended.
The whaling industry in Eden limped on for a few
more decades, but it was never the same. By the
mid twentieth century, international attitude used towards whaling was shifting.
In nineteen seventy eight, Australia officially banned whaling. Today Eden
is no longer a town of whalers. It is a
town of whale watchers. The same waters that once ran
(34:11):
red with the blood of hartbooned whales are now a
sanctuary where humpbacks, southern rights and even the occasional orca
can be seen migrating along the coast.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
Over the years, balen whale numbers plummeted, and by the
time when Eden's whaling operations shut down in nineteen twenty nine,
orcers were rarely seen. More than eighty years on, it
is difficult to know whether the hunting partnership was real.
Accounts from the time suggest it was by witnesses describe
killer whale's tail flopping and breaching to attract the whaler's.
Others claim the predators towed the whale boats to the
(34:40):
flaling whales by tonguing ropes with their teeth quote from
Australian Geographic dot com dot au.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
But Old Tom's story lives on his bones, carefully displayed
in the museum, still bear this tailtale. Signs of his
partnership with the whalers, deep grooves worn into his teeth
from years of pulling on hartburned ropes He's actually got.
If you look at his face, you can actually see
one side is completely worn down. Some say that on
misty mornings, when the whales are breaching in Twofold Bay,
(35:08):
you can still hear the echoes of Old Tom's call,
searching for a hunt that ended long ago.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
As detailed in the updated edition of Danielle's book Killers
in Eden, published in twenty eleven by Museum Victoria, similar
hunting behavior working in groups, taking on rolls, biting fins,
flinging themselves over the blowhole has been observed in modern
day pods of orcas attacking migrating gray whales in the
North Pacific Ocean. The killer whales themselves may have disappeared
(35:35):
from Eden, but the behavior of their relatives in other
oceans gives us an insight into how and why the
seemingly remarkable association between human and whale developed, she said,
quote from Australian Geographic dot com dot au.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
And for those who are interested in whale watching, there's
good news. The orcas are slowly returning to Eden.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
Killer whales don't hunt alongside humans in Eden anymore, but
pods are now seeing chasing humpbacks off the new South
Wales coast. Danielle says she's glad they're coming back. We
talk about the Eden killer whales disappearing, but I suspect
they didn't disappear or die. They just moved offshore and
new generations of the particular family or pod are still
patrolling the East coast just the way they did in
(36:19):
those early days. From Australian Geographic dot com dot au
And that is our episode, Ladies and gentlemen. But before
we go, just a big shout out, of course to
the Eden and Killer Whale Museum. Without that museum, we
would not know that this story even existed. And much
of the information that came from today's episode came from
(36:40):
Holly taking photographs of the plaques while we were walking
through the museum.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
Every time I saw the exhibit, I'm like, oh, take
a photo that.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
So in that respect we're able to put this episode together.
Without the Eating Killer Whale Museum, we would have had
no hope in hell of putting together this story from
the other sources that we use today. Not to say
that the Eating Killer Whale Museum endorses us in any way,
shape or form, nor have we asked, because we're quite rude.
(37:11):
I don't know if Academia is ready for two rude
dudes rocking up in their business, but we would like
to say a big, big thank you, of course, because
their historical efforts preserve this story for many generations to come.
They do a fantastic job there, so I'd highly recommend
if you happen to be along the New South Wales
coast and you're doing that nice little drive between Bateman's
(37:33):
Bay all the way down to Eden and beyond, you
would do yourself a little favor and stop in for
an hour or so to go and have a look
at their very interesting Killer Whale Museum and of course
speak to some of their lovely people at the front
who know everything about their museum, which is also lovely.
(37:53):
And their little documentary that they put together, in my opinion,
was quite professionally done as well, So go check that out,
give them a few of your dollars and help out
little communities like Eden when they do their whale watching season,
which you could probably start thinking about booking now for
around I think it's October is when the whales really
(38:14):
come out there. Well that's it from us today. But
before I let you go, don't forget. You can reach
out to us, just like Frank did with his corrections,
via our email We crap in Australia at gmail dot com.
You can also find us on the social media, whether
it is Facebook or any other social media that you
use aside from X, we don't use X. If we
aren't on a social media that you use and enjoy,
(38:35):
please reach out to us again at We crap in
Australia at gmail dot com. You can set up that
social media account just for you. You can also help
out We crap in Australia by shooting us a little
bit of money that you wouldn't miss via our Patreon
friendly five dollars USD a month. We do put together
bonus minisodes as well as releasing these episodes uncut, ad
free and early. You can also check out our book
(38:58):
series over with our great mates at Impactcomics dot com
dot au. Melanie's team have the books and they post
all the way out to it all over Australia. If
you would like the book internationally, you can pick it
up from Lulu dot Com. That's our print on demand
service and if you're a digital sort of person, you
can grab it from the Amazon Kindle shop. If you
(39:19):
like to grab yourself a Weird Crap in Australia T shirt,
don't forget, you can pick one up from the Red
Bubble nt public Weird Crap stores. Just type in weird
Crap in Australia into the search engine see all of
our wonderful designs, and as is our custom, we give
Holly the final words.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
Well, watching Eden is in May and around Halloween, so
when they go north and then when they're coming south.
So you've got May in October, October, early November. Yeah,
October early November and May. Yeah cool.
Speaker 1 (39:48):
Make sure you get your tickets in go and see
some of those beautiful Wales. I haven't done it myself,
so maybe we'll actually tick that off the bucket list
this year. We'll see how we go. Otherwise, ladies and gentlemen,
please be safe and of course be kind. We will
see you all next week for more Weird Crap in Australia.
Till then bye for now, nay. The Weird Crap in
(40:20):
Australia podcast is produced by Holly and Matthew Soul for
the Modern Meltdown. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please rate
and review on your favorite podcatching app.
A strange, spiraling white light was spotted in the early
morning sky over Sydney, with even skeptical witnesses wondering if
it was a UFO. They were last seen on the
beach with a tall man and that's the best description
police have ever.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Had of it. More than seventeen years after Harold Holt
disappeared into raging surf at Chevy a Beach, his widow
has finally revealed his last romantic words docky, terrifying, mesmerizing.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
That's the way a number of Australians have described the
alleged encounter with the Yowi. It's time for the Weird
Crap in Australia podcast. Welcome to the week Crap in
(00:45):
Australia Podcast, Amy host Matthew Soul Hope everyone is doing
well out there. How are you doing, Holly the Researcher extraordinaire?
Speaker 2 (00:53):
All right, how are you?
Speaker 1 (00:55):
I am good? Before we jump into the episode, just
a couple of quick points or erased us by another fan,
So I just want to do a couple of quick
corrections in regards to my comments about the RSL club.
This comes to us via our mate Frank. I do
want to correct you on a couple of things around
(01:16):
RSL and RSL clubs. When it was first established post
World War One, it was called the Returns Serviceman's League,
was exclusively for those who had deployed to war and
we're lucky or unlucky enough to return to Australia. This
train continued until post Vietnam War. By that stage it
was the veterans of World War II and Korea running
the RSL, and as you stated, they made it difficult
(01:36):
for Vietnam veterans to joint with claims that it wasn't
a real war. Between the end of the Vietnam War
and nineteen ninety nine when we went to East t
or now Team or Leased, there was a period of peace.
During that time Australia sent soldiers on a number of
peacekeeping operations, generally in African countries. During this time, the
RSL went through a name change to become the Returned
(01:57):
in Serviceman's League and allowed those sold just sailors and
airman who had served but not deployed to war to
join the league. The next thing you need to realize
is that the RSL and RSL clubs are run as
separate entities. This was saying, I didn't know, Holly, you
could almost like a license franchise. Yeah. RSL clubs are
(02:17):
run as separate entities. While many of the clubs are
run by a sub branch, not all sub branches run clubs,
with many smaller ones relying on fundraising activities such as
raffles and badge sales nearing Anzac Day and Remembrance Day.
There are also a number of RSL clubs that are
not associated with RSL sub branches but have permission to
use the name. In regards to not having to be
to war recently, we did spend twenty years post nine
(02:40):
to eleven in a war on terror in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Australia lost forty one soldiers in Afghanistan, including an explosive
detection dog handler Sappa spr Darren Smith, who was one
of my soldiers before becoming a handler, and he sent
us through a picture which I obviously can't show you,
but thank you very much for reaching us to us, Frank.
We especially like to hear from our service people and
(03:01):
of course raise some very very good points there, especially
when I said, as Frank pointed out that in relative
peace time, which we have experienced that we haven't had well,
of course we have, you know, in those much smaller conflicts.
Sometimes what happens with me as I get caught up
in the bigger sides of history and I very much
(03:21):
forget about those smaller instances, and we always appreciate those corrections.
So Frank, thank you very much for sending through that email.
We very much appreciate it. All Right, time to completely
move on to something different and not any more Gangland shit,
because I've had a fuck enough of it.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
We're even leaving Victoria, that's how much we've fucking had
enough of it.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
We'd like to say thank you to everyone. Of course,
I'm sure that there will be plenty of you who
are like, hey, you missed this, So you could have
done that, and we could have, but that would have
turned a seven episode, eight episode series, seven seven episode
series into a podcast in and of itself, so at
a certain point we did have to call it quit. However,
we are definitely open to read visiting the Gangland Wars
(04:01):
in the future. Today, as is often our want, we
have put together a little episode to bridge our gap
between two series. We will funnily enough be jumping into
World War One territory next week in time for Inzac Day,
saying that people have wanted for quite some time. But
before we get there, let's tell you all a feel
(04:22):
good story about the Australian version of free Willye Holy,
take it away. This is episode three hundred and fifty nine.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
The whaling industry in Australia has been dead for a
very long time, officially since the burning of whaling in
nineteen seventy eight, but realistically since the integration of plastics
and more manufactured methods of lighting and lubrication. In Australian society.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Whale oil was used for all manners of things as
well yeap, soap, lamps, lube for machinery, just burning lamps.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
The bones were used in clothing and to reinforce things
like tents and stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Yeah, jewelry, the ivory scrimshaw trade.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Whales were a big part of industry right up until
they were replaced.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
One of the key whaling areas in New South Wales
was the area around Eden. This small town, which sits
atop a hill overlooking Twofold Bay, was home to one
of the more successful whaling operations in the nineteenth and
twentieth century. But this is not only because of the
hard work of the humans who did the whaling themselves. No,
the people of Twofold Bay had a secret weapon, one
(05:29):
which would deploy itself when a whale was sighted. This
is a story of Old Tom, the orca and the
relationship of his pod to the humans who lived and
worked on the boats. But what's an orca? Well, for
those of you who don't know, they're the fun little
black and white killing machines that are best known from Seawell,
such as Tillicum, the Serial Killer and from the movie
(05:49):
Free Willie.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
Yeah. So, if anyone has watched the documentary Blackfish, it
concerns predominantly a orca named Tillicum, who ended up being
associated with the deaths of about six people. I believe
there are a couple of trainers. There was a drunk
guy who got into the enclosure, and there's been a
lot of debate, especially from animal behavioralists, whether this is
(06:15):
purposeful aggressive behavior or a SeaWorld likes to say that
Tillicomb is actually killing just because he's doing it by
accident and frequently so.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
There have been four deaths to humans in interactions with
captive orcas. Three of them were Tillico Policom.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Yeah, one of the trainers he caught, he absolutely pummeled
her to death, drowned her, and then scalped her. And
again SeaWorld likes to say that, well, you know, he
was just playing like he didn't realize his own strength, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.
But orcas have a very impressive development in the emotional
(06:56):
parts of their brain. So if you take an animal
that is used to being, if you know, having strong
social bonds and being kept with family, and you put
them into a situation where other aggressive whales who also
are suffering through the same sort of conditions, are constantly
beating the shit out of him, and then you move
(07:16):
him from small location a small location, a small location.
Eventually that animal is going to get pissed and act out.
And that's exactly what he did.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
So Tillicum scalped the second trainer that he killed, and
was quite first one he just drowned.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
So that's the reality of orcas in captivity, which we
will say emphatically, we do not believe in keeping those
sort of animals in captivity. Number one, we don't have
the space for them so that they don't, you know,
they develop a series of health problems, especially pneumonia. It's
what a lot of orcas in captivity die of. We
also don't believe in keeping those sort of emotionally intelligent
(07:53):
animals locked away because it's not good for them in
any way, shape or form. Me personally, I would like
to see it that we pretty much empty zoos. The
reason that we can't do that and shouldn't do that
at the moment is because zoos work a lot to
help in conservation. But in that perfect world, all these
animals would be able to live in their own habitats
(08:14):
without human interaction.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
There's also a lot of issues with releasing captive born
creatures into.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
The wild, absolutely, and it's a problem. Interestingly enough, Holy
you mentioned Free Willy there now, that was another captive
orca who was used for that movie. Eventually they did
release him. The problem is that orca pods generally developed
their own language, and so they know how to communicate
with each other. So you can't take an orca that's
been essentially in captivity for a long time that shows
(08:43):
a lot of less wearing us towards humans and expect
him to integrate with the Scandinavian pod halfway across the world.
And that's unfortunately what they attempted to do with that
particular orca, and it sadly didn't take. He was just
too he liked hanging out with humans because he was
conditioned too. So yeah, but orcas generally in the wild
(09:05):
are not like that whatsoever.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Orcus scientific name or Sinus Orca along Australia's East Coast
represent a powerful and culturally significant population. I bet most
people didn't actually realize that there were orcas in Australian waters.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
I definitely I did it until we went to this
museum to learn about this story. No, no, I had
no idea.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
I thought it was all late North Atlantic kind of stuff.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Yeah, need too.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Though part of the global species, these orcas exhibit distinct
behaviors and patterns that set them apart from their counterparts
in other regions. Biologically, they are apex predators, reaching up
to nine meters in length and weighing over five tons,
with striking black and white coloration, chronical teeth, and large,
highly developed brains. They're intelligence survivals that of primates, allowing
(09:49):
for complex social structures, problem solving and coordinated hunting techniques.
These are all good things to have when you're a
torpedo of mussel in a very big puddle of water.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
And this is one of those things where people like, well,
you know, if orcers were so intelligent, why aren't they
building rocket ships? Well, it's you know, intelligence in animals,
and humans are an animal. Don't forget that. I did
see a debate on there were people saying debating whether
humans fall into the category of animal.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
We're a mammal. We're an animal.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
We're a mammal. We're not a distinct species.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
We're a family.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Yeah, we're not a distinct family. We're part of the
primate species. Anyway, that that being put to the side,
people will often get confused, you know when you say,
look that an animal is very intelligent, and they go, well,
not as intelligent and as us. Well, orcas have the
same breadth of emotions as humans have. They have a
(10:46):
very developed is it frontal lobe or amgnala, Yeah, it's
highly developed. So they feel emotion just like we do.
Their pods and their regions determine their language. So one
orca singing it does not necessarily mean they'll be able
to communicate with another pot of orcers, so they do
form strong familiar bonds, and they do have their own
(11:10):
individualistic languages and regional dialects. That in itself is about
as intelligent as humans are.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Try getting a Scottish orca to talk to us South
Africa Orca. That'll be fun.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
They would have a lot of difficulty communicating. So you know,
that's what we're talking about when we're talking about intelligent animals.
They're problem solvers. And I think that probably a lot
of human arrogance goes into suggesting that we're the only
species on this planet that is intelligent. You can teach
a guerrilla sign language, orangutens use tools, and orcas build
(11:47):
their communities and have their own language.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
I would argue that those animals are smarter so simply
because of the fact that they don't destroy their.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
Own environment generally not know. Elephants have an incredible memory
that rivals humans and are also problem solvers.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Workers follow a matrilineal social hierarchy, living in stable family
groups led by elder females. These pods typically number between
six and twelve animals, though temporary superpods can form in
times of plentiful prey or during seasonal migrations, such as
that which takes place down the Australian East Coast. Within
these groups, roles and relationships are strongly defined. Knowledge such
(12:26):
as hunting strategies, migratory roots, and vocal dialects are passed
down through generations, indicating a form of cultural transmission rarely
seen outside of humans. Workers are highly adaptable predators. They've
been observed preying on fish, squids, seals, and even whales,
using cooperative techniques like herding, flanking, and creating waves to
(12:46):
dislodge prey. Their movements often mirror seasonal changes in prey populations,
particularly the migrations of baileeen whales along the coast. Vocalizations
essential to orca society in different pods exhibit unique core patterns,
suggesting dis languages within the population. Their reliance on acoustic
communication for coordination and cohesion underlies the importance of social
(13:07):
bonds in their daily lives. Although less studied than other
orca populations such as those off Western Australia, which apparently
has a really big study pool, the East Coast ucers
display all the hallmarks of socially complex, culturally rich marine
predator making their historical interactions with humans all the more astounding.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
Eventually, using artificial intelligence, we will be able to start
to map and be able to program translators so that
we can actually have form of I want to talk
like you kid, Yeah, junglewalk when it comes. And when
(13:47):
I say artificial intelligence, ladies and gentlemen, I'm not talking
about the hollow deck doctor from Star Trek. I'm talking
about essentially algorithms that are able to find patterns within data.
It's not as exciting as it sounds. We will be
able to use that technology to map and maybe at
one point be able to reproduce those vocalizations and actually
(14:08):
have some sort of understanding. That's an interesting philosophical idea,
isn't it.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Just make sure you get the regional dialector right, or
you might be telling someone to go sick. It's an ass.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
Why have you been pooping in our home? Why do
you send your poop out here?
Speaker 2 (14:22):
The local people of Twofold Bay were the Yuen people,
a group of about twelve local dialect groups who lived
along the southern coast from roughly the Shoalhaven River to
Cape Howe. They numbered roughly eleven thousand before the arrival
of Europeans and were decimated through smallpox epidemics of seventeen
eighty nine and eighteen thirty, Whaler's venereal diseases, and into
(14:43):
tribal battles. Their numbers dropped to as little as six
hundred in the mid nineteenth century, but remain as a
people today, with the local Thur people holding native title claims.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
Around Twofold Bay bungen bro was born eighteen twenty one,
also known as Toby, Toby the Kind, and Toby Blue.
He led Oswald Brierley and Benjamin Boyd Overland via traditional
pathways from Eden to Manero in nineteen forty two. Describing
him as a very remarkably intelligent fellow. Very noted that
(15:15):
we were first drunk by the clear manner in which
he answered our inquiries among the customs the Aborigines, and
hid in his quickness when we were retaining from him
the native manner of different objects. In giving these, he
would never be satisfied until we assented them properly, repeating
them over several times until we had caught the rights out,
and then going on to others. Bungenbrough and Brierly became
(15:38):
close friends the young Aboriginal men sharing information about the
land see Culture and Beliefs. Rarely, as manager of Boyd's
whaling operations, appointed bungen Brough as headsman of a boat
crewed wholly by Aboriginal men, Noting the expert way they
handled the boats. The Englishman highlighted that their science is
better when they see the fish sooner than the white men. G. A.
(16:00):
Robinson wrote in eighteen forty four that Turby has a
bird to himself, his name on it, called after his
wife quote from Indigenous Whalers of Twofold Bay, Eden's Killer
Whale Museum. And it's a very interesting moment in Australian
history because in this area, of course, the British colonialists
set up with the intention of whaling and fishing. The
(16:24):
first guy rocks up and he's like, hold my beer,
I've got this, finds that he can't do it and
basically shuns the indigenous population, whereas the second administrator comes
in holly and he is all for the help.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
He's like, what are you guys doing? It's working cool,
show me how to do that.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
Pretty much.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
The most famous of the Ewen are known as the
whalers of Twofold Bay. They worked in a symbiotic relationship
with a local pot of orcers who would assist them
in their hunting for wales. Why would the orcers do this, well,
Family helps family.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
The traditional owners of Twofold Bay, the Ewen people, believe
that the killer whales were the reincarnation of their ancestors.
They would often perform a ritual of leaping between fires
on the beach and pretending to be lame in order
to call the orcas to drive whales to shore and
provide them with food. Now, of course we're not going
to take away the spiritual beliefs of people, but let's
(17:20):
take an approach from an animal behavioralist point of view.
Quite simply, the orcas realized very very quickly that the
squishy little people on boats could actually help them to
get what they wanted, and what they wanted were parts
of the whales to eat. Orcas are very interested in
(17:42):
specific parts of their prey animals. Right now, the great
white shark population is being under threat not by humans
for a change, but for whales. Who are the orcas
the killer whales especially, and we should probably point this
out as well, whales are not whales. They're actually dolphins. Yeah,
(18:03):
they're part of the dolphin family.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
They're all the same family. But it's like us and primates.
Late there's a difference.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
There's a difference between Matthew and an orangutank. Not much
difference because they're smarter than me, but there is some difference.
So the orcas, from their perspective, they want those nice, soft,
fleshy inner parts, right, and it's quite you know, it's
risky for them to take on these larger animals.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Not to mention energy use.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
But suddenly there are these little guys on boats who
are cruising around, throwing spears and assisting them in killing.
So they get what they want and then the little
people get to take it away. And then the killer
whales are very happy with this arrangement, and the humans
are happy with this arrangement because they're coordinating their attacks. Now.
It may not surprise you when you start looking at
(18:55):
this from a evolutionary standpoint, to learn that a lot
of the genetics of our dolphins and whales and other
and orcas, when you start to look at their genetics
and trace it back, it appears that they were once
wolf like animals. They were pack animals and what did
(19:19):
we see in terrestrial wolves that worked with people. We
form this symbiotic relationship, and that's effectively what is happening here.
That's not to talk that, that's not to degenerate somebody's
religious beliefs. I'm not trying to do that. I'm just
trying to also come up with a more scientific minded explanation.
(19:40):
And the reason that I do that is because I
don't have a belief system. I don't have spiritual beliefs,
and so from my perspective, this is how it works.
But if you are a true believer, then that's how
that works from your perspective. And we're allowed to have
two perspectives. Obviously, this is one way conversation. Zigons say
(20:00):
that whatever the fuck I like, you all agree with me? Excellent?
Moving on.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
I don't hear what you just said.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Anyone have any objections? No, moving on.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
The Yorkers would surround the whale and nip at it,
driving it deeper into the bay and eventually to shore.
There the Thuer would be waiting.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
For generations. The Thwer people worked with killer whales to
hunt large whales in the water of Twofold Bay on
the southern coast New South Wales, killer whales commonly known
as orcas would herd their giant prey into shallow or
waters where hunters could spear them. Humans would get the meat,
but the killer whales wanted a delicacy, specifically the tongue
quote from the Conversation dot com.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
This relationship continued on for a very long time, right
up until the Europeans walked to Twofold Bay and realized
that there was good whale hunting in the area. Unlike
the Ewen people, who hunted the whales for food and
oils in a respectful and sustainable fashion, the Europeans who
arrived hunted the local humpback whale population as best they
could from the early eighteen hundreds.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
From the time commercial whaling began in Twofold Bay, local
indigenous peoples were an essential part of the workforce. Their
rowing ability, consistent aim with the harpoon and lands, and
sharper eyesight made them far superior to their European counterparts.
They brought their own traditions and skills to the occupation,
and also proved considerably less likely to abandon the station
(21:23):
mid season. Both the Imlay brothers and Benjamin Boyd relied
on Aboriginals to man their boats. They were a vital
part of the Davidson operation until the very end. In fact,
during the first two decades of the twentieth century, indigenous
whalers formed nearly the entire crew whenever George Davidson put
his boats in the water. That the curries employed in
the whaling industry at Twofold Bay were paid a wage
(21:45):
equal to their white counterparts illustrated their importance. Ote from
Kuri whalers the Teachers of Tradition Eating Killer Whale Museum.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
When the Europeans of Eden arrived, they took the hunting
whales from shore base methods, which were slow in an
inefficient compared to getting in the water with the whales. Initially,
small rowboats were deployed from shore to chase and harpoon
the whales. Once they were speared, the boat would have
to fight the whale and drag it back close enough
to shore for it to be pulled up and have
airborne gravity crushed them to death. This could take hours, days,
(22:17):
even a week until the whale would staff drown or
tire enough to be taken back to shore. It was
dangerous for the humans. It was inhumane for the whales
and it was very hard to make a living. But
not only would they have to fight off the whale,
but the local orcopods would get in on the action,
trying and grab a slice of whale meat. This meant
more teeth, more tails, and more destabilizing waves for the
(22:38):
humans to fight against.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
Whaling n and Eden took off in eighteen twenty eight,
but it wasn't until eighteen forty four that stories of
the peculiar behavior started to emerge. Eyewitnesss talked of orcas
prowling the entrance of Twofold baf migrating humpback, blue, Southern
rhine and mink whales, wrote from the Australian Geographic dot
com au.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
Like the humans, the orcas sought the use of geography
of Twofold Bay to hunt the whales that they ate,
But they only ate the most delicate pieces of the whales,
the lips and tongue, which meant that there was more
of the whale to go around, but the humans hadn't
yet realized the tool they had at their disposal. It
wasn't until the eighteen forties that the European whalers began
to recognize the value of their unexpected allies. The orcas
(23:24):
of Twofold Bay were not just scavengers taking advantage of
a fresh kill. They were strategic, cooperative hunters, and in
time the whalers learned to work with them, just as
the two people had done for generations.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
Zu Wallas. Gist doctor Danielle cold says the relationship was
probably mutual exploitation. Obviously, the killer whales seemed to have
evolved a particular style of hunting that suited the geography
of Eden, whereby they drove the bailing whales into the
bay and used the shallow water to capture them. She says,
the whalers added a new dimension to that and could
kill the bailing whales much quicker quote from Australian Geographic
(24:00):
dot com dot au.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
The system that developed became known as the lore of
the Tongue. It was an unspoken but well understood agreement
between the whalers and the orcas. The killer whales would
help in the hunt and in return there would be
given first pick of the carcass, the lips and the tongue.
The orcas would herd the whales into the bay, harass
and exhaust them and alert the whalers with splashing and breaching.
(24:24):
At times, an orca would even grasp a harpoon line
in its mouth and pull, helping to tire the whale
out faster.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
From around eighteen forty four, commercial whalers work with employed
funer and killer whales to hunt these giants. The pods
of killer whales would find a prize baling whale, purt
it closer to shore and signal the whalers who lived
in the town of Eden. The partnership has no parallel
anywhere in the world. The top predator of the oceans
working with the top predator on the land. Quote from
(24:52):
the Conversation dot com. And this is one of those
things where obviously we don't hunt whales anymore for good
fucking reason, and we shouldn't have been doing it in
the first place.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Most people don't hunt them.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
Most people don't hunt them. Japanese have still been accused
of hunting whales, though even in the I think in
the last ten or so years that trend has definitely
been on the downward spiral. Ye, it doesn't seem to
be happening quite as frequently as it used to. And
then of course you have some Scandinavian countries who still
hunt whales because of the grand old tradition of well,
(25:25):
we've always done it. When you see what happened in
Eden and the effects that sort of flow out of Eden,
you see a cooperation between the environment, the indigenous people
and the settlers. And when you look at that little township,
you can see the signs of integration are still there
(25:47):
because for generations everyone was treated equally. Now one would
be fair to turn around and say they're only treated
well because they offered a service, and they wouldn't be
wrong in saying that. That is one hundred percent correct
to say that. But isn't it always interesting when we
work with things, we work with other people, we always
seem to be able to achieve more and quicker than
(26:09):
when we're divided. Something to keep in mind, everyone is
a potential ally, everyone has a potential friend, and we
can learn a lot from each other. If we stop
being so fucking tribal all the time and stop looking
for ways to hurt each other, you end up with
much better results. Believe it or not.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
One Orca in particular, became legendary Old Tom. Old Tom
was the most famous of the Eden orcas, easily recognizable
by his distinctive ball dorsal fin and his unusual behavior
around humans. He would actively seek out the whalers, sometimes
even nudging their boats to encourage them to follow him
out to sea. If a whale was sighted, Old Tom
(26:50):
and his pod would begin their work, driving the massive
creature into shallower waters. Once the whale was harpooned, the
orcers would seize hold of the ropes and drag it further,
keeping the strain on the animal until it was too
exhausted to fight back.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
Many Twofold Bay Killers were named because of the local
thuler law that they were the reborn spirits of ancestors
gone before. Young artists and local whaling station manager Oswald
Brearley recorded the custom in nineteen forty three, and the
tradition was adopted and carried on by some European whalers,
most notably the Davidson family. Among the names of those
(27:22):
recorded were Cooper, Charlie, Fishner, Jackson, Big Ben, Little Ben
or Young Ben, Charlie, Adjuri, Brearley, Albert Walker, Big Jack,
Little Jack, Skinner, Montague, as well as the large male
known as Old Tom. So familiar were the whales were
the killers that they recognized them by the unique physical
characteristics of their dorsal fins and saddle markings, a practice
(27:45):
now standard for identifying orcas in the wild. Quote from
Known by name Eden Killer Whale Museum.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
One of the most famous stories of Old Tom's intelligence
and cooperation involved a young whaler named George Davidson. His
family was heavily involved in Eden's whaling industry. According to legend,
during one hunt, George fell into the water and was
in danger of drowning. Old Tom swam to his side,
allowing him to grab onto his dorsal fin and pulling
him back to his boat. This cemented Old Tom's reputation
(28:16):
not just as a hunting partner, but as a true
friend of the whaler's.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
In February eighteen ninety one, two whale boats from the
vessel Star of the East were dispatched after a huge
sperm whale. After being harpooned, the whale dived eight hundred
feet before the line slackened and the whale rose up
under one boat, smashing it to pieces before sounding again.
The dying whale resurfaced about sunset and was winched to
(28:40):
the vessel for immediate processing. After the huge liver and
stomach were hoisted on board, rhythmic movements like something trying
to Breathe came from the great paunch, so the whalers
cut it open. Out came a boot on a trousered leg,
and there was James Bartley, one of the missing crewmen,
doubled up, unconscious but still living after fifteen hours in
(29:01):
the belly of a whale. Its digestive juices had permanently
bleached his skin at deathly white. He lost his hair,
was nearly blind for two weeks, he was delirious, and
a month before he could tell how he'd fallen into
the whale's mouth, felt the huge teeth grate over him
as he slid down into its throat, then stomach, in
which live fish were flapping. This modern Jonah lived eighteen
(29:24):
more years, dying at the ripe old age of thirty nine,
from the official records of British Admiralty. Before diving, sperm
whales inhaled deeply and rapidly, storing oxygen and muscle fibers, tissues,
and blood, thus enabling them to remain under water for
over an hour. For they frequently dive more than a
mile deep searching the ocean floor for giant squid? Could
(29:45):
it possibly be that James Bartley survived through the storing
up of such oxygen? On a small sign attached to
the board fake news question mark. The story of James
Bartley was first published in English newspaper in June eighteen
ninety one. The story reappeared in newspapers including Australia between
nineteen twenty eight and nineteen eighty five. The wife of
(30:06):
the captain of the whaler Star of the East wrote
publicly that the event did not occur, and historians have
failed to find any confirmation of this story, including one
James Bartley. Although an intriguing story, this remains an early
example of fake news. Quote from a tale of a
whale in a modern jonah eat a killer whale? You
seem yes. Sometimes, ladies and gentlemen, when we think something
(30:28):
is true or it sounds too good to be true,
quite often it is too good to be true, which
is exactly what happened in this case. You cannot live
inside the belly of a whale for fifteen hours. It's
just not going to happen.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
No, Because the thing that happens is your stomach gets
crushed as you're digesting, so even if you survive, it
will not be fun and it will not be long.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
And just as a reminder before people point to us
about the story of Jonah and the whale, it was
his faith in God that protected him from being consumed
by the whale, not a natural occurring event in the world.
Just to help out our theologians out there.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
The relationship between the orcas and the whalers lasted for decades,
but it was always a fragile balance. By the earlier
twentieth century, the Eden whaling industry was in decline. Steam
powered ships and explosive harpoons had revolutionized commercial whaling elsewhere
in the world, making Eden's traditional shore based operations outdated.
Were still the Orcas were being seen as competitors now
(31:32):
rather than allies. In nineteen twenty three, tragedy struck a
group of visiting whalers, unfamiliar with the law of the
tongue that any whale the Orcas assisted in would be
given the tongue and lips for themselves as a reward,
and who didn't know of the symbiotic relationship between whalers
and orcas killed Old Tom's pod mates elsewhere along the coast.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
Soon after his death, Old Tom's pods stopped appearing in
two Fold Bay. Perhaps it was related to his death,
but another theory is that the remainder of the pod
was hunted down in Jervis Bay, about three hundred kilometers
up the coast, by oblivious Norwegian whalers. Either way, this
is why we can't have nice things. Quote from Scientific
America dot com.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
Killer whales become less common in Twofold Bay of a
stranded whale on Astling Beach in nineteen oh one, far
from the thirty strong pod that originally traveled the waters.
Only seven members returned in nineteen oh two, and after
that only a few lone males, including Hooky and Old Tom, returned.
After nineteen oh three. When Old Tom returned to the bay,
he was alone. He continued his usual routine, trying to
(32:37):
alert the whalers and drag harpoon lines, but without his pod,
the hunts became more difficult. Some accounts suggests he grew
more erratic and his health declined. In nineteen thirty, Old
Tom was found dead into Fold Bay, his body washing
ashore near the whaling station. His skeleton was cleaned and
preserved and is now on display at the Eden Killer
Whale Museum, a testament to the remarkable bond between humans
(32:59):
and this particular pod.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
Acers We extracted and sequenced DNA from Old Tom using
ancient DNA techniques. Genomic sequences were then compared with a
global data set of mitochondrial and nuclear genomes. Old Tom
shared a most recent common ancestor with killer whales from Australasia,
the North Atlantic and the North Pacific, having the highest
genetic similarity with contemporary New Zealand killer whales. However, much
(33:23):
of the variation found in Old Tom's genome was not
shared with these widespread populations, suggesting ancestral rather than ongoing
gene flow. Our genetic comparisons also failed to find any
clear descendants of Tom, raising the possibility of the local
extinction of this group. Quote from ancestry testing of Old Tom,
a killer whale central to mutualistic interactions with human whales
(33:44):
from academic dot AUP dot com.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
With Old Tom's death, the Golden Age of cooperative whaling ended.
The whaling industry in Eden limped on for a few
more decades, but it was never the same. By the
mid twentieth century, international attitude used towards whaling was shifting.
In nineteen seventy eight, Australia officially banned whaling. Today Eden
is no longer a town of whalers. It is a
town of whale watchers. The same waters that once ran
(34:11):
red with the blood of hartbooned whales are now a
sanctuary where humpbacks, southern rights and even the occasional orca
can be seen migrating along the coast.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
Over the years, balen whale numbers plummeted, and by the
time when Eden's whaling operations shut down in nineteen twenty nine,
orcers were rarely seen. More than eighty years on, it
is difficult to know whether the hunting partnership was real.
Accounts from the time suggest it was by witnesses describe
killer whale's tail flopping and breaching to attract the whaler's.
Others claim the predators towed the whale boats to the
(34:40):
flaling whales by tonguing ropes with their teeth quote from
Australian Geographic dot com dot au.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
But Old Tom's story lives on his bones, carefully displayed
in the museum, still bear this tailtale. Signs of his
partnership with the whalers, deep grooves worn into his teeth
from years of pulling on hartburned ropes He's actually got.
If you look at his face, you can actually see
one side is completely worn down. Some say that on
misty mornings, when the whales are breaching in Twofold Bay,
(35:08):
you can still hear the echoes of Old Tom's call,
searching for a hunt that ended long ago.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
As detailed in the updated edition of Danielle's book Killers
in Eden, published in twenty eleven by Museum Victoria, similar
hunting behavior working in groups, taking on rolls, biting fins,
flinging themselves over the blowhole has been observed in modern
day pods of orcas attacking migrating gray whales in the
North Pacific Ocean. The killer whales themselves may have disappeared
(35:35):
from Eden, but the behavior of their relatives in other
oceans gives us an insight into how and why the
seemingly remarkable association between human and whale developed, she said,
quote from Australian Geographic dot com dot au.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
And for those who are interested in whale watching, there's
good news. The orcas are slowly returning to Eden.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
Killer whales don't hunt alongside humans in Eden anymore, but
pods are now seeing chasing humpbacks off the new South
Wales coast. Danielle says she's glad they're coming back. We
talk about the Eden killer whales disappearing, but I suspect
they didn't disappear or die. They just moved offshore and
new generations of the particular family or pod are still
patrolling the East coast just the way they did in
(36:19):
those early days. From Australian Geographic dot com dot au
And that is our episode, Ladies and gentlemen. But before
we go, just a big shout out, of course to
the Eden and Killer Whale Museum. Without that museum, we
would not know that this story even existed. And much
of the information that came from today's episode came from
(36:40):
Holly taking photographs of the plaques while we were walking
through the museum.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
Every time I saw the exhibit, I'm like, oh, take
a photo that.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
So in that respect we're able to put this episode together.
Without the Eating Killer Whale Museum, we would have had
no hope in hell of putting together this story from
the other sources that we use today. Not to say
that the Eating Killer Whale Museum endorses us in any way,
shape or form, nor have we asked, because we're quite rude.
(37:11):
I don't know if Academia is ready for two rude
dudes rocking up in their business, but we would like
to say a big, big thank you, of course, because
their historical efforts preserve this story for many generations to come.
They do a fantastic job there, so I'd highly recommend
if you happen to be along the New South Wales
coast and you're doing that nice little drive between Bateman's
(37:33):
Bay all the way down to Eden and beyond, you
would do yourself a little favor and stop in for
an hour or so to go and have a look
at their very interesting Killer Whale Museum and of course
speak to some of their lovely people at the front
who know everything about their museum, which is also lovely.
(37:53):
And their little documentary that they put together, in my opinion,
was quite professionally done as well, So go check that out,
give them a few of your dollars and help out
little communities like Eden when they do their whale watching season,
which you could probably start thinking about booking now for
around I think it's October is when the whales really
(38:14):
come out there. Well that's it from us today. But
before I let you go, don't forget. You can reach
out to us, just like Frank did with his corrections,
via our email We crap in Australia at gmail dot com.
You can also find us on the social media, whether
it is Facebook or any other social media that you
use aside from X, we don't use X. If we
aren't on a social media that you use and enjoy,
(38:35):
please reach out to us again at We crap in
Australia at gmail dot com. You can set up that
social media account just for you. You can also help
out We crap in Australia by shooting us a little
bit of money that you wouldn't miss via our Patreon
friendly five dollars USD a month. We do put together
bonus minisodes as well as releasing these episodes uncut, ad
free and early. You can also check out our book
(38:58):
series over with our great mates at Impactcomics dot com
dot au. Melanie's team have the books and they post
all the way out to it all over Australia. If
you would like the book internationally, you can pick it
up from Lulu dot Com. That's our print on demand
service and if you're a digital sort of person, you
can grab it from the Amazon Kindle shop. If you
(39:19):
like to grab yourself a Weird Crap in Australia T shirt,
don't forget, you can pick one up from the Red
Bubble nt public Weird Crap stores. Just type in weird
Crap in Australia into the search engine see all of
our wonderful designs, and as is our custom, we give
Holly the final words.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
Well, watching Eden is in May and around Halloween, so
when they go north and then when they're coming south.
So you've got May in October, October, early November. Yeah,
October early November and May. Yeah cool.
Speaker 1 (39:48):
Make sure you get your tickets in go and see
some of those beautiful Wales. I haven't done it myself,
so maybe we'll actually tick that off the bucket list
this year. We'll see how we go. Otherwise, ladies and gentlemen,
please be safe and of course be kind. We will
see you all next week for more Weird Crap in Australia.
Till then bye for now, nay. The Weird Crap in
(40:20):
Australia podcast is produced by Holly and Matthew Soul for
the Modern Meltdown. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please rate
and review on your favorite podcatching app.
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