August 18, 2023 • 41 mins
Hello, campers!
Your favorite podcast is celebrating its 100th episode on September 1st.
What better way to do this than to give the people what they want?!? We are assembling the gang and will broadcast a live WTF episode. Crazy, right? We know, we can hardly believe it either! Be on the lookout for more details to come on the socials. See you on September 1st, 6 pm PST!
In this episode, we're covering a well-known case in the PNW. While you may know of this crime, you may not know the prime person of interest nor the other crimes he committed.
One of the most well-known unsolved cases in Oregon history is the 1974 Cowden Family Murders. Almost 50 years ago, Richard and Belinda Cowden took their young children on a last-minute camping trip near Carberry Creek in Copper, OR. They were never seen alive again.
Join us to discuss this case, the main suspect, and other cases that are connected to him.
Information from this episode:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cowden_family_murders
https://www.strangeoutdoors.com/true-crime-in-the-outdoors/tag/serial+killer+Dwain+Lee+Little
https://kobi5.com/news/unsolved-so-oregon-mystery-in-the-woods-pt-2-135405/
https://murderpedia.org/male.L/l/little-dwaine.htm
https://mylifeofcrime.wordpress.com/2017/09/11/monsters-among-us-dwaine-lee-little-convicted-of-1-murder-person-of-interest-in-at-least-4-more/
https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=WaxVAAAAIBAJ&sjid=DOEDAAAAIBAJ&pg=5587%2C2135664
https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1310&dat=19650302&id=J5gRAAAAIBAJ&sjid=_uIDAAAAIBAJ&pg=5527,67454&hl=en
https://www.newspapers.com/article/statesman-journal-dwaine-little-suspect/44577179/
https://www.oddmurdersandmysteries.com/the-murder-of-orla-fay-fipps/
Your favorite podcast is celebrating its 100th episode on September 1st.
What better way to do this than to give the people what they want?!? We are assembling the gang and will broadcast a live WTF episode. Crazy, right? We know, we can hardly believe it either! Be on the lookout for more details to come on the socials. See you on September 1st, 6 pm PST!
In this episode, we're covering a well-known case in the PNW. While you may know of this crime, you may not know the prime person of interest nor the other crimes he committed.
One of the most well-known unsolved cases in Oregon history is the 1974 Cowden Family Murders. Almost 50 years ago, Richard and Belinda Cowden took their young children on a last-minute camping trip near Carberry Creek in Copper, OR. They were never seen alive again.
Join us to discuss this case, the main suspect, and other cases that are connected to him.
Information from this episode:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cowden_family_murders
https://www.strangeoutdoors.com/true-crime-in-the-outdoors/tag/serial+killer+Dwain+Lee+Little
https://kobi5.com/news/unsolved-so-oregon-mystery-in-the-woods-pt-2-135405/
https://murderpedia.org/male.L/l/little-dwaine.htm
https://mylifeofcrime.wordpress.com/2017/09/11/monsters-among-us-dwaine-lee-little-convicted-of-1-murder-person-of-interest-in-at-least-4-more/
https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=WaxVAAAAIBAJ&sjid=DOEDAAAAIBAJ&pg=5587%2C2135664
https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1310&dat=19650302&id=J5gRAAAAIBAJ&sjid=_uIDAAAAIBAJ&pg=5527,67454&hl=en
https://www.newspapers.com/article/statesman-journal-dwaine-little-suspect/44577179/
https://www.oddmurdersandmysteries.com/the-murder-of-orla-fay-fipps/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Suki's Past on Libois, Very Tappodcasts, so La Criminality, The Discute,
Devene Monk. What Happens in theWoods is a true crime podcast.
We discuss events that are often violentin nature. Listeners discretion is advised.
(00:41):
Hello, welcome back to the Woodsfor another new episode in our sixth season.
Hi bris, Hello, ho,what are your what are your thoughts?
What are your updates? My updatesso soon? Yeah? Uh,
(01:02):
let's see. I know I haven'tdiscussed it in a while, but Canada
is still in the lead. Okay, So for those who don't know,
that is our intro, our disclaimer, Yeah, our disclaimer. Once upon
a time, it was changing everyweek, so we had the disclaimer in
different languages. I promise you thereare different languages. Canada has been on
(01:26):
top for months now. Yeah.Yeah, that's awesome. What else you
got any other updates? Yeah?Okay. Tom Jones died. I know
that's not crime related in any waythough it's not, but it breaks my
heart. I don't think you care. Excuse me. Jess and I had
(01:49):
this huge debate. I wouldn't callan argument, but whose song the song
kiss better? Oh god? Yeah? I think you just want to disagree.
I honestly think you just disagreed itto be contrary. Oh okay,
(02:10):
I still in my heart. Ilove the way Tom Jones sings that song.
I don't know who the fuck youare sometimes I don't know. And
this wasn't recent you guys like thisis like early in our marriage. This
is twenty years ago probably, andI don't know. It confused me then
(02:38):
it confuses me now. But yougo ahead and be wrong. I leave
a comment if you guys, whodo you think, Prince or Tom Jones?
Who did it better? Tom Jones? M hm. I actually met
him, though I did too.When did you meet him? I met
(02:59):
him him in San Francisco when Iwas in high school. Oh, I
don't remember you telling me that itwas. It wasn't even like I shook
his hand for like a second.Yeah, he was just coming through.
He had two big bodyguards. Yeah, I think. Yeah, he was
in the Embarcadero. Yeah, it'sa legend. Yeah that's not good.
(03:25):
Another news. Yeah, Oh areyou done? Oh? I thought you
had other news you said in othernews? No that was Oh you're segue
to to handing it back over.Okay, Well, just a reminder we
(03:45):
do have our hundredth episode coming up, so September one, we are going
live. We're gonna go live onYouTube and Instagram. Bryce tells me it
can be done, so I'm gonnaassume that it can be it can be
done. Yeah, and thanks toa Killer b Beth for being the hundredth
(04:06):
person to subscribe on YouTube, sothat you made that happen. You made
that happen, Beth, You're thereal one. Speaking of them, they
have their serial Killer September coming up. Yeah, yeah, they hate it.
They absolutely hate it. I feellike that's all we do is serial
(04:28):
killers, and today might be anotherone of those, but they do not.
They don't focus on that at all, which is just goes to show
you Unfortunately, there's enough different crime. There are enough people in the world
who commit different crimes that are horrificthat are not serial killers. Yeah.
(04:55):
Yeah, they're they're coming up andthey started doing Survivor stories over on their
Patreon, So the month of Septemberis a Storio Killer September for their regular
feed and then Patreon, So definitelygo check them out. You know,
anybody who listens to us knows thatwe love them, and that's all I've
(05:15):
got we can get into the caseI have for us today. If you
are ready, I'm ready. Okay, Well, let's go. So our
episode is focused on an unsolved crimefrom Oregon. It's definitely been covered in
many different podcasts and news outlets,and there was one very strong suspect that
(05:41):
authorities kind of had their sights onfor this crime, and he was known
to the community. However, nothingwas definitively proven in the case. I
also wonder, and I'll be interestedto get your take on this. It
seems to be a case and Isay this just to play Devil's advocates,
(06:03):
it seemed to be a case wheremaybe they were hyper focused on one suspect
and I really can't see that theydid do diligence to look at any other
suspects. I don't even see anymention of any other suspects. And when
(06:27):
I get more into it, it'sit's a little alarming, to be honest,
because there was nothing. Obviously,it's unsolved, so whatever they had
that tied him or didn't tie himto the crime was not enough. So
I'll be curious to get everybody's takeon that if they think that maybe that
(06:53):
plays a part in this. Letme take you back to August thirtieth,
nineteen seventy four, when Richard andBelinda Cowden took their small family camping in
the Sisquiu Mountains near Copper, Oregon. It was a last minute trip and
Richard and Belinda their young son,David, who was five years old at
(07:13):
the time, and their young daughterMelissa, who was just five months old
at the time. They also hadtheir family dog who was He was a
Bassett Hound named Droopy super Cue.They made the quick trip from White City,
Oregon to go to a camping areawhere they had been before. Richard
(07:34):
worked for a locking company as atruck driver and had managed to get off
a few days around the holiday,and it was Labor Day weekend and they
had had plans to do some homeimprovement, but that fell through. So
this last minute decision, they decidedto go camping, and they were avid
campers, so they just quickly packedup gear and were on their way.
(07:58):
Belinda's mother lived not far from wherethey were camping, near Carberry Creek.
It was planned that on the nightof Sunday, September first, they were
going to have dinner at her homeand they didn't show, so her mom
got worried and headed out to thecampsite to make sure that everything was okay.
(08:20):
When she got there, she foundout that everything was not okay.
She describes the scene that clearly tellsinvestigators something went wrong. It was basically
like the family afford just left everythingand vanished. So the diaper bag was
still there with all of the thingsthat they would have needed for Melissa.
(08:43):
Then maybe there were many personal belongingssuch as Richard's wristwatch, his wallet that
had money in it, Belinda's pursealso all of her contents, money,
IDAs things, all of their clothingthat they had packed except for their swim
gear. There was even the keysto their truck that they drove up,
(09:05):
so it was a nineteen fifty sixFord truck that was all left. There
was no sign of the dog,so the family and the dog nowhere to
be found whatsoever. Belinda's mother waitedfor an hour at the campsite, you
know, kind of walking around tryingto see if she could find anything,
but nobody showed up. She decidedthat she needed to reach out to law
(09:31):
enforcement, so she contacted the sheriffsto report that she could not find the
family. At this point in theday, it was getting dark, so
there was only so much they coulddo. It's you know, out on
the wilderness, there's you can't reallyyou know, flashlights in the seventies were
not that great. But they didcome out to the campsite and they don't
(09:52):
find anything other than they're just notthere. It's odd, but they just
seemed to disappear. There's nothing atthe camp site that shows that there was
any violent you know, no struggle, no blood. It doesn't seem as
if anything bad has happened at thatsite at least right. So they actually
(10:18):
delayed doing like a huge search forabout a day because they didn't see any
reason of foul play. They didn'tsuspect anything of foul play. While they
didn't do a huge search, youknow, at first, authorities did question
workers at a store nearby, sothe Copper General Store, which was down
(10:39):
the road from where the camp sitewas, and it is believed that the
last known sighting of Richard and hisson David was at this store at around
nine am that morning on Sunday,the first, when the two walked up
to the store on foot to buymilk. So that gallon of milk was
actually found on a picnic table halfempty at the campsite when it was searched
(11:05):
on Monday, September two. Itquickly became apparent that whatever happened to the
family was not good. Their dogwas found outside the general store trying to
get in. The Cowdens, however, were nowhere near, so search and
rescue quickly began. This is stillconsidered one of the largest in Oregon history.
(11:28):
Hundreds of volunteers, along with familymembers, friends of Richard and Belinda,
the United States Forest Service, theOregon National Guard, and explorer scouts
all searched, covering a twenty fivemile radius. There were also planes and
helicopters that flew over the area evenwhen they could using infrared equipment to try
(11:52):
to pick up any signs of theCowden family. There was nothing. There
was nothing that was found, andthe search officially ended on September seventh.
When did it start the second fivedays. Friends and family were obviously distraught.
(12:15):
They could not leave it, sothey kept searching for answers. They
continued to search in the area.They would, you know, on the
weekends, they would take vacation dayscome and search in this area, and
you know, they were hoping tofind science that the family was out there
somewhere. But as it passed,you know, more time passes, your
(12:39):
hope of finding somebody alive also diminishes. There seemed to be, you know,
little reason for why the family wouldhave disappeared. Authorities were looking into
possible explanations to see, you know, what might have happened. They did
think that maybe there was an issuewhere maybe they went swimming and they all
(13:03):
drowned. That was one of thepossibilities. Were swimming triangle and there's a
creek, there's the Carberry Creek that'snearby. I think it. You know,
there's several rivers. This is likein Siscu Mountain Range, so it's
by Klamath. It's like there's severalwaterways that kind of go through this area.
(13:28):
Apparently they could have just been swimmingsomewhere nearby and you know, rapids
or can't always judge how bad they'regoing to be. I don't know,
maybe there was an undertow I don'tknow, like you know, current was
more than what they thought it wasgoing to be. It was just a
thought. They didn't find anything thatwould confirm that. But they're also just
(13:50):
didn't seem to be any any reasonwhy anybody would want them dead or would
have taken them. So they youknow, Belinda and Richard seemed to be
happy in their marriage. They wereyou know, they had their little family
that was growing. They were notin debt. They didn't seem to have
(14:11):
like an at risk lifestyle. Nodrug use, no you know, gambling
issues, no odd things. Itthey were just your everyday couple with two
point five kids. You know,it was nothing that anybody could think of.
Why would somebody want to come andharm this family or why would somebody
(14:33):
why where would they have gone,why would they have disappeared? They were
involved in anything? And there wasalso a question like what's the motive?
Right, there's no robbery. Everythingof value was left at the camp site,
even including a truck that was ingood working order, even if it
was twenty years old. There wasmoney left in the wallet and the purse
(14:56):
there was. The watch was youknow, a good quality watch they could
have somebody could have sold it.They had camping gear. So who leaves
this, you know, who doesn'ttake an opportunity to take any of these
things? Nobody really could figure itout. There were really no good answers.
(15:20):
It wouldn't be until April twelfth,nineteen seventy five, that two people
who were out searching, like miningfor gold near the creek discovered the body
of an adult male tied to atree. The body was in a state
of decomposition and had been out inthe elements for many months. Nearby there
(15:41):
was a small cave that was foundthat had been partially covered with rocks,
and inside that cave there were threebodies found. So there was that of
an adult female, a child,and an infant. Yeah, autopsies were
completed and it was confirmed that thefemale and the young child died from a
(16:02):
gunshot wound from a twenty two calibergun. The male's cause of death could
not be conclusively decided, although itwas determined that he died while he was
tied up to that tree, whichwas on the edge of kind of like
a steep hill. Sickeningly, thecause of death for the young infant was
(16:23):
ruled as severe head trauma. Allof these, of course, were then
ruled as homicide. Richard and Belindawere confirmed to be the adult bodies that
were found by using dental records,and so of course by assumption the two
young children were David Melissa. Sohaving you know the family know somewhat what
(16:48):
happened to Richard and Belinda and thekids, they it answers. You know,
of course they are gone, butit does not answer the question of
why and who did this. Authoritiesbegin to question, you know, more
people again that were around the areathat day. It was suspected that somebody
(17:10):
with knowledge of the area would havecommitted this crime. Due to the bodies
being found in this small cave,it wasn't very visible unless you were upon
it. They did get some informationfrom locals. One such man had volunteered
during the search of the party orthe search party for the family, and
stated that he hadn't he had lookedin that cave that day that they were
(17:32):
searching. So this would have beenon the second the first day that they
searched, it was September two.He was able to take authorities back to
that cave, so they know thatit was the same cave. He claims
that there was nobody in that cave. There were no bodies in that cave
the day that he came across it. Okay, so and just so you
(17:53):
know, he was cleared. Hewas never considered a suspect, which is
question considering that sometimes happens when peopleinsert themselves into investigations because they liked to
see what happens, you know,they liked to there's that thrill of everybody
(18:15):
is out here because of something,did you know? But he was considered
not a person of interest at all. There was also a lead from a
family that was visiting from Los Angeles, and this family stated that while they
were also out there camping, theywere on a walk that evening September first,
(18:36):
and they came across a pickup truckthat was parked in an area.
There was two men and a womanthat were acting very odd. They acted
like they were waiting for us toleave, and frankly, they made us
nervous, so we moved on.This is a quote from the father in
that family. They stated also thatthey took particular note is because it looked
(19:00):
like the female was crying. Sothat brings us to the main suspect in
the case, whose name is DuaneLee Little. And when we come back
from this break, we will gointo a little history on Duane and why
authorities looked at him so heavily.Duane Lee Little was born in December of
nineteen forty eight. I couldn't findmuch in regard to his upbringing or childhood,
(19:26):
but I did find mentioned that hesuffered a head injury as a child
that resulted in him having to weara helmet for a few months while he
was healing. Apparently he took abat to the head. Okay, was
this like or were there any detailsabout it? No? Other than having
to wear a helmet? No?Was it like family member or was it
(19:51):
no? No idea? The onlyother thing that was mentioned was that he
because of it, he suffered fromlearning disabilities and headaches. Someone had to
have hit him, like, really, a fucking hard. Yeah. He
was only twenty five at the timeof the Cowden murders, but by this
time he had already served two yearsin jail and eight years in prison.
Jesus, he had been paroled forthree months when the family disappeared from their
(20:15):
camp site. What was he injail for though, I'm getting to that.
Oh sorry, Okay. Little wasconvicted at the age of sixteen for
the rape and murder of a teenagegirl named Orla Faye Phipps. Little and
Orla had lived in the same neighborhoodin Springfield, Oregon, and is reported
(20:38):
that he was kind of somewhat likefriends on friendly terms with her brother,
her older brother. Orla was avery beautiful, young sixteen year old girl
who was described as very friendly andjust very kind. She was a member
of the four h club, herhigh school choir, and her local community
(21:00):
church, and she had a loveof horse riding, so she rode her
horse every day, and the paththat she rode took her right past the
home of Duane Lee Little. OnNovember two, nineteen sixty four, Orla
was out for her usual daily ride, but she did not return in time
(21:22):
for dinner that night, so herfamily obviously began to worry. The neighborhood
joined in the search to try tofind or laft When only her horse was
found in a wooded area, thefamily called the police and the search continued.
Unfortunately, not long after, inthe same area, her body was
found covered in thick underbrush to kindof cover her up. The scene was
(21:48):
very bloody. Her throat had beencut, she had been stabbed multiple times.
Her body showed that the attack hadbeen very violent. An autopsy showed
that there had been a fracture toher skull from blunt force trauma. There
was evidence that she tried to fightback, as there were several defensive wounds
(22:11):
found on her arms, and unfortunately, the autopsy also revealed that she was
sexually assaulted post mortem. Gross.Yeah. In an unusual move, investigators
began requesting that males in the areagive samples of blood, hair as well
as saliva so that they could testit against evidence it was found at the
(22:33):
crime scene and they took both hairon the head and hair in the pubic
area offer him off of everybody.They literally just made a plea to the
community to come, any males comeand give these samples. It's a very
odd request. It was done ona voluntary basis. They cannot demand this,
(23:00):
but it's it's really unusual for policeto just, you know, knock
on your door and say, hey, we need you to give any mails
in the house to give a sampleof your spit and your blood and your
pubic hair. It's I think nowadaysthat would be obviously a hell no,
(23:21):
yeah, come back with the warrant, motherfucker. Right, but back in
in the you know, this isin the sixties, it was still that
sense of oh, well, ifthe police are asking for it, they
must really need it, so we'regonna, you know, we're going to
give them what they need because Ididn't do anything. You don't have to
(23:42):
do anything. You don't need togive anybody anything. They need to prove
that they need it first. However, right or wrong, it probably got
them what they needed in this case. So when the request was made from
Duane's mother, when they knocked onthe door, she agreed because her son
(24:03):
was only fifteen at the time,so she said, yes, we'll give
you what you need. I'm notsure how all of this was tested.
I mean it's nineteen sixty four,so yeah, they can test bled.
I don't know what they would testthe saliva forore, what would be in
it. I couldn't really see whatthat testing would look like. And hair
(24:29):
would not have given any DNA.They didn't do that yet, so it
would have been like comparison, whichis very unreliable from a lot of the
things that I've read, well exactlybecause it's generally, I don't know pubic
(24:52):
care is generally it's it's pretty consistentfor a lot of the population. I
just I don't know what exactly theywere looking for. If maybe he has
a very specific color, I don'tknow. Maybe that's what the point was,
was that the hair sample or pubichair sample that was found was a
(25:18):
very specific color. But also theydid request blood, which they could blood
type, so I'm not exactly surewhat was tested. However, whatever was
tested conclusively came back that Little wasa match to all of this evidence that
was found on her body. Okay. Little was arrested on November eighteenth,
(25:42):
nineteen sixty four. He was indictedand held until his conviction of the charges
of rape and murder. So thiswas two years later, on February tenth,
that he was found guilty by ajury. So the two years spent
in jail was during this time.There had been some court proceedings to determine
(26:06):
if he would be tried as ajuvenile or as an adult. During you
know, these two years, whilehe was awaiting trial and then on trial
and then awaiting conviction and all ofthat, the outcome was that it would
go to the circuit court and thatwas an adult jurisdiction. So he was
sixteen years old when that decision wasmade. So on February eleventh, just
(26:32):
one day later after it was foundthat he was guilty by a jury,
Lane County Circuit Judge Roland Rodman gaveDuane Lee Little a life sentence with the
possibility of parole after ten years.For sixteen year old or now he's eighteen,
he's seventeen at this point. Hewas fifteen when he committed the crime.
(26:55):
He was at that time the youngestperson in or in to be in
prison for that crime, I shouldsay for the for the you know,
having a life sentence for that crime. There were of course appeals that made
it to the Subcreme Court in Oregon, arguing that Duane gave the collection of
(27:17):
samples that was done without his orhis parents expressed consent. However, the
Supreme Court found that this was notany legal search and seizure that you know,
it was given freely, and theappeal was dismissed. So Little served
eight years of his sentence and thenhe was found eligible for parole. He
(27:42):
was parole just three months before theCowden murders. It was determined that Little
and his parents were in the areathat weekend, and so investigators began to
take a hard look at Duane LeeLittle for the Cowden murders, and it
was confirmed that Little was seen inthe area buying gas that day. There
(28:03):
is also an account that Little andhis parents signed a like a visitor's book
at a cabin on the day inquestion, which was within the area where
the search was conducted, so withina twenty five mile area. I read
one account that it was like sevenmiles from where the campsite was. After
questioning his girlfriend, it was foundout that he had been in possession of
(28:29):
a firearm, which violated his parole. Little was brought in on a parole
violation in December of nineteen seventy four, but he refused to cooperate one question
regarding the count in murders. Investigatorsoffered to drop the possession of a firearm
issue if he would consent and thencould pass a polygraph. He declined,
(28:56):
so in January of nineteen seventy five, he was returned to prison on violating
Pearl. So the account from thecampers from Los Angeles claimed to have seen
the two men and the one womanin the truck that matched the description of
Dwayne. There wasn't much else thatcould tie him to these crimes. He
(29:21):
and his parents denied any connection andthey denied being in the area, and
it was determined that the firearm thatcaused his pearl to be revoked that he
apparently was in possession of from youknow, the girlfriend's account, was a
twenty two and it actually belonged tohis mother. However, when the police
(29:41):
did get a warrant, they showedup at his parents house to search for
the twenty two, it could notbe found. There was a record that
it was purchased and it belonged tohis mother, but that was as close
as they came to tying anything tohim. So unfortunately, this case went
coult. It is still to thisday unsolved. That's all they got on
(30:02):
them. That's it, and that'swhy if if they are holding on to
something that they're not releasing any otherevidence, they have not stated it and
it's been all this time, andthat's you know, could be rightfully So
I'm not I'm not saying that theyneed to release anything, but there is
(30:26):
nothing that strongly suggests that it's him. It's very circumstantial. Oh, he
was in the area, and hehas this violent past and a truck and
the description of the three people matchhim and his parents and their truck.
It's it doesn't mean that he hadanything to do with their murder. And
(30:49):
if if he did, then where'syour motive? Why would he have done
this? I can see where hisparents would probably lie for him. I
can see that. I you know, that's kind of a given, I
think, But what is his motivefor this? Just for ships and giggles.
(31:12):
It's not said that he assaulted Belindaand nothing was taken, so what
did he get out of it?He just felt like killing people and his
parents were along for the ride.That's where I questioned where they really hyper
focused on him and was there agood enough for reason to do that?
(31:36):
What was it that they may havefound that was good enough to name him
as they're basically they're one and onlyperson of interest. Yeah, that's weird.
Yeah, because I haven't released anyinformation on it. No, No,
it's I'll kind of give an updateat the end. But yeah,
(31:56):
so we're not done with Dwayne though. Just two years after he was sent
to prison on that parole violation,he was again released on parole and he
was released to the community and hedid not learn a damn thing apparently,
really, Yeah, In June ofnineteen eighty, a young pregnant woman named
Margie Hunt apparently came into contact withLittle after her car broke down near Portland,
(32:23):
Or Again, Little drove up,picked her up and offered her a
ride. Margie mistakenly thought that sherecognized him as somebody that she worked with,
and so she said, yeah,can you just drop me off at
the nearest phone booth so I canstart calling people to come and try to
help me, which he did.He dropped her off and drove away.
(32:46):
She started calling everybody she knew,but she ran out of change. So
she then kind of walked up theroad to a nearby gas station and she
tried calling a few more people,you know, a few more times.
She just kept repeatedly trying to callpeople. She had no luck. So,
of course, this is before answeringmachines, call waiting any of that
(33:07):
shit, yea, in nineteen eighty. So she decided to walk back to
where her car was and kind ofwaited out, and about twenty minutes later,
the same man Little again drove upand asked if she needed a ride.
This time, she decided to justhave him drop her off at home,
(33:29):
only he did not take her home. The twenty three year old was
lucky to survive after being beaten andsexually assaulted in a location off the road.
When Little tried to move her toa new location, Margie was able
to jump from the moving car.She rolled down like a highway embankment,
(33:50):
and thankfully there was a little otherdamage done from her trying to escape,
other than of course, she wasassaulted and beaten, but she was able
to get away, and she wasclearly able to identify Dwaine Lee Little as
the offender. As the attacker.This time he was convicted and it stuck,
so Little was convicted of attempted homicide. He was sentenced on November twenty,
(34:15):
nineteen eighty to three life sentences tobe served. Concurrently, all of
the appeals for parole so far havebeen denied and he is currently serving out
his terms in the Oregon State Penitentiary. So he's all his first life sentence.
He's got two more to go.Sweet. Yeah, there has still
(34:37):
been no movement in the Cowden familymurder case. It has been nearly fifty
years, so next year will befifty years since these horrible crimes took place,
and it is still being worked bylocal law enforcement. It's also being
worked by the FBI. So theyhave asked many times that if anybody remembers
(34:59):
any anything and that you know wasin the area that day, remembers anything
at all, it may be ofassistance to them, even if you don't
think it is, and they askfor people to reach out. But there
is nothing new that's been released indecades as far as information. All the
news articles replay this same information overand over and over again, so every
(35:24):
few years, you know, it'sremembering this crime that took place, and
you know, probably family members aretrying to get it back in the news
and have it discussed. It isa highly discussed case. There are a
lot of podcasts that have covered it. It's in the media a lot.
(35:45):
It's there's no shortage of discussion aboutit. There's nothing that I can see
that comes out that's new, Soit's it's just very stagnant and if the
police, the sheriff, the statepatrol, or the FBI have anything that
(36:07):
they're holding onto I there's never beenanybody else that's been closely tied to it
or named as a person of interestor discussed like little husband h he hasn't
confessed to it. So apparently oneof his salemates says that he did confess
(36:30):
to it, but of course theycan't. If anybody ever tries to talk
to him, he completely and adamantlydenies anything. And you know, sometimes
you have to be careful what inmateswill say about other inmates because they might
be looking for shortened terms on theirown sentences. And the whistleblower. Yeah,
(36:53):
so while there are people who youknow, in good faith do that,
and I don't know, that's Ithink a discussion for another podcast,
but that's not viable proof of anything, you know, that's hearsay. So
(37:15):
other than that, no, headamantly denies. He and his family were
not in the area. They don'tknow anything about. It wasn't them,
He wasn't there, no idea.Yeah, very unfortunate and it it I
can see why he would be lookedat even, you know, with just
(37:39):
the one crime that he committed thathe was convicted for. You know that
they say they have evidence that provedthat he did it of or La Fay,
But being sixteen and committing that violentof a crime, I wonder was
(37:59):
there other things that happened before thator he just went right to that.
It's a little unusual. But Ican't see what the violentness, you know,
how violent that crime was that hewould be heavily looked at with the
four murders. I just don't knowwhat they have that makes him such an
(38:20):
isolated suspect. So that's that's thequestion there. And it makes me wonder
did they focus on him and overlooksomething, overlook some other people that might
have been just as capable of thiscrime. Yeah, there's really no way
of knowing that, I guess,and police did look at Richard, but
(38:46):
I mean, he died tied upto a tree. You don't tie yourself
up to a tree. How himself, I don't know, and they don't.
They've not released how he was killed, just that he did die while
he was tied up to that tree. So he may have just been left
and could not get out of thebindings. And you know, there again
(39:10):
for what what for? So Idon't I don't know if something wasn't overlooked,
And that's what I worry about.Fifty years later, you're not going
to find it. Not at thispoint. You're yeah, it's whatever,
whatever possibility of anybody else that couldhave been a suspect. Is it's gone
(39:31):
you know crazy? Yeah, yeahit is. It's just one of those
ones we may never know. Andthe family, you know, has gone
on fifty years with no answers.But I'm curious to know everybody else's thoughts,
if if you have looked at thiscase, because like I said,
(39:55):
it's it's a pretty well known casein this area, like for Pacific Northwest,
and it gets talked about on I'vefound Reddit feeds, so there's there's
things that kind of get brought up. So let us know your thoughts.
If you think he's a good suspectand they were right to look at him,
(40:15):
or is he is he one ofa possibility and maybe they overlook something.
I don't know. Tell us whatyou think, all right, don't
forget. We've got our live showcoming up September first, which is a
Friday, so six pm Pacific Standardtime. We're gonna be on Instagram and
Facebook. We're doing a live Whatthe fuck, guys, It's gonna be
(40:38):
amazing YouTube. Yeah didn't I saythat? Did I say Facebook? Again?
I mean YouTube? I don't knowwhy I say that. Yeah,
forget that I said that all right, everybody, Well, thank you so
much for listening. We greatly appreciateall the support, and as we always
(40:59):
say, they kind of one anotherand stay out of down woods, especially
camping. I just can't do itanymore. I don't think. I think.
Yeah, all right, guys.Thanks
Suki's Past on Libois, Very Tappodcasts, so La Criminality, The Discute,
Devene Monk. What Happens in theWoods is a true crime podcast.
We discuss events that are often violentin nature. Listeners discretion is advised.
(00:41):
Hello, welcome back to the Woodsfor another new episode in our sixth season.
Hi bris, Hello, ho,what are your what are your thoughts?
What are your updates? My updatesso soon? Yeah? Uh,
(01:02):
let's see. I know I haven'tdiscussed it in a while, but Canada
is still in the lead. Okay, So for those who don't know,
that is our intro, our disclaimer, Yeah, our disclaimer. Once upon
a time, it was changing everyweek, so we had the disclaimer in
different languages. I promise you thereare different languages. Canada has been on
(01:26):
top for months now. Yeah.Yeah, that's awesome. What else you
got any other updates? Yeah?Okay. Tom Jones died. I know
that's not crime related in any waythough it's not, but it breaks my
heart. I don't think you care. Excuse me. Jess and I had
(01:49):
this huge debate. I wouldn't callan argument, but whose song the song
kiss better? Oh god? Yeah? I think you just want to disagree.
I honestly think you just disagreed itto be contrary. Oh okay,
(02:10):
I still in my heart. Ilove the way Tom Jones sings that song.
I don't know who the fuck youare sometimes I don't know. And
this wasn't recent you guys like thisis like early in our marriage. This
is twenty years ago probably, andI don't know. It confused me then
(02:38):
it confuses me now. But yougo ahead and be wrong. I leave
a comment if you guys, whodo you think, Prince or Tom Jones?
Who did it better? Tom Jones? M hm. I actually met
him, though I did too.When did you meet him? I met
(02:59):
him him in San Francisco when Iwas in high school. Oh, I
don't remember you telling me that itwas. It wasn't even like I shook
his hand for like a second.Yeah, he was just coming through.
He had two big bodyguards. Yeah, I think. Yeah, he was
in the Embarcadero. Yeah, it'sa legend. Yeah that's not good.
(03:25):
Another news. Yeah, Oh areyou done? Oh? I thought you
had other news you said in othernews? No that was Oh you're segue
to to handing it back over.Okay, Well, just a reminder we
(03:45):
do have our hundredth episode coming up, so September one, we are going
live. We're gonna go live onYouTube and Instagram. Bryce tells me it
can be done, so I'm gonnaassume that it can be it can be
done. Yeah, and thanks toa Killer b Beth for being the hundredth
(04:06):
person to subscribe on YouTube, sothat you made that happen. You made
that happen, Beth, You're thereal one. Speaking of them, they
have their serial Killer September coming up. Yeah, yeah, they hate it.
They absolutely hate it. I feellike that's all we do is serial
(04:28):
killers, and today might be anotherone of those, but they do not.
They don't focus on that at all, which is just goes to show
you Unfortunately, there's enough different crime. There are enough people in the world
who commit different crimes that are horrificthat are not serial killers. Yeah.
(04:55):
Yeah, they're they're coming up andthey started doing Survivor stories over on their
Patreon, So the month of Septemberis a Storio Killer September for their regular
feed and then Patreon, So definitelygo check them out. You know,
anybody who listens to us knows thatwe love them, and that's all I've
(05:15):
got we can get into the caseI have for us today. If you
are ready, I'm ready. Okay, Well, let's go. So our
episode is focused on an unsolved crimefrom Oregon. It's definitely been covered in
many different podcasts and news outlets,and there was one very strong suspect that
(05:41):
authorities kind of had their sights onfor this crime, and he was known
to the community. However, nothingwas definitively proven in the case. I
also wonder, and I'll be interestedto get your take on this. It
seems to be a case and Isay this just to play Devil's advocates,
(06:03):
it seemed to be a case wheremaybe they were hyper focused on one suspect
and I really can't see that theydid do diligence to look at any other
suspects. I don't even see anymention of any other suspects. And when
(06:27):
I get more into it, it'sit's a little alarming, to be honest,
because there was nothing. Obviously,it's unsolved, so whatever they had
that tied him or didn't tie himto the crime was not enough. So
I'll be curious to get everybody's takeon that if they think that maybe that
(06:53):
plays a part in this. Letme take you back to August thirtieth,
nineteen seventy four, when Richard andBelinda Cowden took their small family camping in
the Sisquiu Mountains near Copper, Oregon. It was a last minute trip and
Richard and Belinda their young son,David, who was five years old at
(07:13):
the time, and their young daughterMelissa, who was just five months old
at the time. They also hadtheir family dog who was He was a
Bassett Hound named Droopy super Cue.They made the quick trip from White City,
Oregon to go to a camping areawhere they had been before. Richard
(07:34):
worked for a locking company as atruck driver and had managed to get off
a few days around the holiday,and it was Labor Day weekend and they
had had plans to do some homeimprovement, but that fell through. So
this last minute decision, they decidedto go camping, and they were avid
campers, so they just quickly packedup gear and were on their way.
(07:58):
Belinda's mother lived not far from wherethey were camping, near Carberry Creek.
It was planned that on the nightof Sunday, September first, they were
going to have dinner at her homeand they didn't show, so her mom
got worried and headed out to thecampsite to make sure that everything was okay.
(08:20):
When she got there, she foundout that everything was not okay.
She describes the scene that clearly tellsinvestigators something went wrong. It was basically
like the family afford just left everythingand vanished. So the diaper bag was
still there with all of the thingsthat they would have needed for Melissa.
(08:43):
Then maybe there were many personal belongingssuch as Richard's wristwatch, his wallet that
had money in it, Belinda's pursealso all of her contents, money,
IDAs things, all of their clothingthat they had packed except for their swim
gear. There was even the keysto their truck that they drove up,
(09:05):
so it was a nineteen fifty sixFord truck that was all left. There
was no sign of the dog,so the family and the dog nowhere to
be found whatsoever. Belinda's mother waitedfor an hour at the campsite, you
know, kind of walking around tryingto see if she could find anything,
but nobody showed up. She decidedthat she needed to reach out to law
(09:31):
enforcement, so she contacted the sheriffsto report that she could not find the
family. At this point in theday, it was getting dark, so
there was only so much they coulddo. It's you know, out on
the wilderness, there's you can't reallyyou know, flashlights in the seventies were
not that great. But they didcome out to the campsite and they don't
(09:52):
find anything other than they're just notthere. It's odd, but they just
seemed to disappear. There's nothing atthe camp site that shows that there was
any violent you know, no struggle, no blood. It doesn't seem as
if anything bad has happened at thatsite at least right. So they actually
(10:18):
delayed doing like a huge search forabout a day because they didn't see any
reason of foul play. They didn'tsuspect anything of foul play. While they
didn't do a huge search, youknow, at first, authorities did question
workers at a store nearby, sothe Copper General Store, which was down
(10:39):
the road from where the camp sitewas, and it is believed that the
last known sighting of Richard and hisson David was at this store at around
nine am that morning on Sunday,the first, when the two walked up
to the store on foot to buymilk. So that gallon of milk was
actually found on a picnic table halfempty at the campsite when it was searched
(11:05):
on Monday, September two. Itquickly became apparent that whatever happened to the
family was not good. Their dogwas found outside the general store trying to
get in. The Cowdens, however, were nowhere near, so search and
rescue quickly began. This is stillconsidered one of the largest in Oregon history.
(11:28):
Hundreds of volunteers, along with familymembers, friends of Richard and Belinda,
the United States Forest Service, theOregon National Guard, and explorer scouts
all searched, covering a twenty fivemile radius. There were also planes and
helicopters that flew over the area evenwhen they could using infrared equipment to try
(11:52):
to pick up any signs of theCowden family. There was nothing. There
was nothing that was found, andthe search officially ended on September seventh.
When did it start the second fivedays. Friends and family were obviously distraught.
(12:15):
They could not leave it, sothey kept searching for answers. They
continued to search in the area.They would, you know, on the
weekends, they would take vacation dayscome and search in this area, and
you know, they were hoping tofind science that the family was out there
somewhere. But as it passed,you know, more time passes, your
(12:39):
hope of finding somebody alive also diminishes. There seemed to be, you know,
little reason for why the family wouldhave disappeared. Authorities were looking into
possible explanations to see, you know, what might have happened. They did
think that maybe there was an issuewhere maybe they went swimming and they all
(13:03):
drowned. That was one of thepossibilities. Were swimming triangle and there's a
creek, there's the Carberry Creek that'snearby. I think it. You know,
there's several rivers. This is likein Siscu Mountain Range, so it's
by Klamath. It's like there's severalwaterways that kind of go through this area.
(13:28):
Apparently they could have just been swimmingsomewhere nearby and you know, rapids
or can't always judge how bad they'regoing to be. I don't know,
maybe there was an undertow I don'tknow, like you know, current was
more than what they thought it wasgoing to be. It was just a
thought. They didn't find anything thatwould confirm that. But they're also just
(13:50):
didn't seem to be any any reasonwhy anybody would want them dead or would
have taken them. So they youknow, Belinda and Richard seemed to be
happy in their marriage. They wereyou know, they had their little family
that was growing. They were notin debt. They didn't seem to have
(14:11):
like an at risk lifestyle. Nodrug use, no you know, gambling
issues, no odd things. Itthey were just your everyday couple with two
point five kids. You know,it was nothing that anybody could think of.
Why would somebody want to come andharm this family or why would somebody
(14:33):
why where would they have gone,why would they have disappeared? They were
involved in anything? And there wasalso a question like what's the motive?
Right, there's no robbery. Everythingof value was left at the camp site,
even including a truck that was ingood working order, even if it
was twenty years old. There wasmoney left in the wallet and the purse
(14:56):
there was. The watch was youknow, a good quality watch they could
have somebody could have sold it.They had camping gear. So who leaves
this, you know, who doesn'ttake an opportunity to take any of these
things? Nobody really could figure itout. There were really no good answers.
(15:20):
It wouldn't be until April twelfth,nineteen seventy five, that two people
who were out searching, like miningfor gold near the creek discovered the body
of an adult male tied to atree. The body was in a state
of decomposition and had been out inthe elements for many months. Nearby there
(15:41):
was a small cave that was foundthat had been partially covered with rocks,
and inside that cave there were threebodies found. So there was that of
an adult female, a child,and an infant. Yeah, autopsies were
completed and it was confirmed that thefemale and the young child died from a
(16:02):
gunshot wound from a twenty two calibergun. The male's cause of death could
not be conclusively decided, although itwas determined that he died while he was
tied up to that tree, whichwas on the edge of kind of like
a steep hill. Sickeningly, thecause of death for the young infant was
(16:23):
ruled as severe head trauma. Allof these, of course, were then
ruled as homicide. Richard and Belindawere confirmed to be the adult bodies that
were found by using dental records,and so of course by assumption the two
young children were David Melissa. Sohaving you know the family know somewhat what
(16:48):
happened to Richard and Belinda and thekids, they it answers. You know,
of course they are gone, butit does not answer the question of
why and who did this. Authoritiesbegin to question, you know, more
people again that were around the areathat day. It was suspected that somebody
(17:10):
with knowledge of the area would havecommitted this crime. Due to the bodies
being found in this small cave,it wasn't very visible unless you were upon
it. They did get some informationfrom locals. One such man had volunteered
during the search of the party orthe search party for the family, and
stated that he hadn't he had lookedin that cave that day that they were
(17:32):
searching. So this would have beenon the second the first day that they
searched, it was September two.He was able to take authorities back to
that cave, so they know thatit was the same cave. He claims
that there was nobody in that cave. There were no bodies in that cave
the day that he came across it. Okay, so and just so you
(17:53):
know, he was cleared. Hewas never considered a suspect, which is
question considering that sometimes happens when peopleinsert themselves into investigations because they liked to
see what happens, you know,they liked to there's that thrill of everybody
(18:15):
is out here because of something,did you know? But he was considered
not a person of interest at all. There was also a lead from a
family that was visiting from Los Angeles, and this family stated that while they
were also out there camping, theywere on a walk that evening September first,
(18:36):
and they came across a pickup truckthat was parked in an area.
There was two men and a womanthat were acting very odd. They acted
like they were waiting for us toleave, and frankly, they made us
nervous, so we moved on.This is a quote from the father in
that family. They stated also thatthey took particular note is because it looked
(19:00):
like the female was crying. Sothat brings us to the main suspect in
the case, whose name is DuaneLee Little. And when we come back
from this break, we will gointo a little history on Duane and why
authorities looked at him so heavily.Duane Lee Little was born in December of
nineteen forty eight. I couldn't findmuch in regard to his upbringing or childhood,
(19:26):
but I did find mentioned that hesuffered a head injury as a child
that resulted in him having to weara helmet for a few months while he
was healing. Apparently he took abat to the head. Okay, was
this like or were there any detailsabout it? No? Other than having
to wear a helmet? No?Was it like family member or was it
(19:51):
no? No idea? The onlyother thing that was mentioned was that he
because of it, he suffered fromlearning disabilities and headaches. Someone had to
have hit him, like, really, a fucking hard. Yeah. He
was only twenty five at the timeof the Cowden murders, but by this
time he had already served two yearsin jail and eight years in prison.
Jesus, he had been paroled forthree months when the family disappeared from their
(20:15):
camp site. What was he injail for though, I'm getting to that.
Oh sorry, Okay. Little wasconvicted at the age of sixteen for
the rape and murder of a teenagegirl named Orla Faye Phipps. Little and
Orla had lived in the same neighborhoodin Springfield, Oregon, and is reported
(20:38):
that he was kind of somewhat likefriends on friendly terms with her brother,
her older brother. Orla was avery beautiful, young sixteen year old girl
who was described as very friendly andjust very kind. She was a member
of the four h club, herhigh school choir, and her local community
(21:00):
church, and she had a loveof horse riding, so she rode her
horse every day, and the paththat she rode took her right past the
home of Duane Lee Little. OnNovember two, nineteen sixty four, Orla
was out for her usual daily ride, but she did not return in time
(21:22):
for dinner that night, so herfamily obviously began to worry. The neighborhood
joined in the search to try tofind or laft When only her horse was
found in a wooded area, thefamily called the police and the search continued.
Unfortunately, not long after, inthe same area, her body was
found covered in thick underbrush to kindof cover her up. The scene was
(21:48):
very bloody. Her throat had beencut, she had been stabbed multiple times.
Her body showed that the attack hadbeen very violent. An autopsy showed
that there had been a fracture toher skull from blunt force trauma. There
was evidence that she tried to fightback, as there were several defensive wounds
(22:11):
found on her arms, and unfortunately, the autopsy also revealed that she was
sexually assaulted post mortem. Gross.Yeah. In an unusual move, investigators
began requesting that males in the areagive samples of blood, hair as well
as saliva so that they could testit against evidence it was found at the
(22:33):
crime scene and they took both hairon the head and hair in the pubic
area offer him off of everybody.They literally just made a plea to the
community to come, any males comeand give these samples. It's a very
odd request. It was done ona voluntary basis. They cannot demand this,
(23:00):
but it's it's really unusual for policeto just, you know, knock
on your door and say, hey, we need you to give any mails
in the house to give a sampleof your spit and your blood and your
pubic hair. It's I think nowadaysthat would be obviously a hell no,
(23:21):
yeah, come back with the warrant, motherfucker. Right, but back in
in the you know, this isin the sixties, it was still that
sense of oh, well, ifthe police are asking for it, they
must really need it, so we'regonna, you know, we're going to
give them what they need because Ididn't do anything. You don't have to
(23:42):
do anything. You don't need togive anybody anything. They need to prove
that they need it first. However, right or wrong, it probably got
them what they needed in this case. So when the request was made from
Duane's mother, when they knocked onthe door, she agreed because her son
(24:03):
was only fifteen at the time,so she said, yes, we'll give
you what you need. I'm notsure how all of this was tested.
I mean it's nineteen sixty four,so yeah, they can test bled.
I don't know what they would testthe saliva forore, what would be in
it. I couldn't really see whatthat testing would look like. And hair
(24:29):
would not have given any DNA.They didn't do that yet, so it
would have been like comparison, whichis very unreliable from a lot of the
things that I've read, well exactlybecause it's generally, I don't know pubic
(24:52):
care is generally it's it's pretty consistentfor a lot of the population. I
just I don't know what exactly theywere looking for. If maybe he has
a very specific color, I don'tknow. Maybe that's what the point was,
was that the hair sample or pubichair sample that was found was a
(25:18):
very specific color. But also theydid request blood, which they could blood
type, so I'm not exactly surewhat was tested. However, whatever was
tested conclusively came back that Little wasa match to all of this evidence that
was found on her body. Okay. Little was arrested on November eighteenth,
(25:42):
nineteen sixty four. He was indictedand held until his conviction of the charges
of rape and murder. So thiswas two years later, on February tenth,
that he was found guilty by ajury. So the two years spent
in jail was during this time.There had been some court proceedings to determine
(26:06):
if he would be tried as ajuvenile or as an adult. During you
know, these two years, whilehe was awaiting trial and then on trial
and then awaiting conviction and all ofthat, the outcome was that it would
go to the circuit court and thatwas an adult jurisdiction. So he was
sixteen years old when that decision wasmade. So on February eleventh, just
(26:32):
one day later after it was foundthat he was guilty by a jury,
Lane County Circuit Judge Roland Rodman gaveDuane Lee Little a life sentence with the
possibility of parole after ten years.For sixteen year old or now he's eighteen,
he's seventeen at this point. Hewas fifteen when he committed the crime.
(26:55):
He was at that time the youngestperson in or in to be in
prison for that crime, I shouldsay for the for the you know,
having a life sentence for that crime. There were of course appeals that made
it to the Subcreme Court in Oregon, arguing that Duane gave the collection of
(27:17):
samples that was done without his orhis parents expressed consent. However, the
Supreme Court found that this was notany legal search and seizure that you know,
it was given freely, and theappeal was dismissed. So Little served
eight years of his sentence and thenhe was found eligible for parole. He
(27:42):
was parole just three months before theCowden murders. It was determined that Little
and his parents were in the areathat weekend, and so investigators began to
take a hard look at Duane LeeLittle for the Cowden murders, and it
was confirmed that Little was seen inthe area buying gas that day. There
(28:03):
is also an account that Little andhis parents signed a like a visitor's book
at a cabin on the day inquestion, which was within the area where
the search was conducted, so withina twenty five mile area. I read
one account that it was like sevenmiles from where the campsite was. After
questioning his girlfriend, it was foundout that he had been in possession of
(28:29):
a firearm, which violated his parole. Little was brought in on a parole
violation in December of nineteen seventy four, but he refused to cooperate one question
regarding the count in murders. Investigatorsoffered to drop the possession of a firearm
issue if he would consent and thencould pass a polygraph. He declined,
(28:56):
so in January of nineteen seventy five, he was returned to prison on violating
Pearl. So the account from thecampers from Los Angeles claimed to have seen
the two men and the one womanin the truck that matched the description of
Dwayne. There wasn't much else thatcould tie him to these crimes. He
(29:21):
and his parents denied any connection andthey denied being in the area, and
it was determined that the firearm thatcaused his pearl to be revoked that he
apparently was in possession of from youknow, the girlfriend's account, was a
twenty two and it actually belonged tohis mother. However, when the police
(29:41):
did get a warrant, they showedup at his parents house to search for
the twenty two, it could notbe found. There was a record that
it was purchased and it belonged tohis mother, but that was as close
as they came to tying anything tohim. So unfortunately, this case went
coult. It is still to thisday unsolved. That's all they got on
(30:02):
them. That's it, and that'swhy if if they are holding on to
something that they're not releasing any otherevidence, they have not stated it and
it's been all this time, andthat's you know, could be rightfully So
I'm not I'm not saying that theyneed to release anything, but there is
(30:26):
nothing that strongly suggests that it's him. It's very circumstantial. Oh, he
was in the area, and hehas this violent past and a truck and
the description of the three people matchhim and his parents and their truck.
It's it doesn't mean that he hadanything to do with their murder. And
(30:49):
if if he did, then where'syour motive? Why would he have done
this? I can see where hisparents would probably lie for him. I
can see that. I you know, that's kind of a given, I
think, But what is his motivefor this? Just for ships and giggles.
(31:12):
It's not said that he assaulted Belindaand nothing was taken, so what
did he get out of it?He just felt like killing people and his
parents were along for the ride.That's where I questioned where they really hyper
focused on him and was there agood enough for reason to do that?
(31:36):
What was it that they may havefound that was good enough to name him
as they're basically they're one and onlyperson of interest. Yeah, that's weird.
Yeah, because I haven't released anyinformation on it. No, No,
it's I'll kind of give an updateat the end. But yeah,
(31:56):
so we're not done with Dwayne though. Just two years after he was sent
to prison on that parole violation,he was again released on parole and he
was released to the community and hedid not learn a damn thing apparently,
really, Yeah, In June ofnineteen eighty, a young pregnant woman named
Margie Hunt apparently came into contact withLittle after her car broke down near Portland,
(32:23):
Or Again, Little drove up,picked her up and offered her a
ride. Margie mistakenly thought that sherecognized him as somebody that she worked with,
and so she said, yeah,can you just drop me off at
the nearest phone booth so I canstart calling people to come and try to
help me, which he did.He dropped her off and drove away.
(32:46):
She started calling everybody she knew,but she ran out of change. So
she then kind of walked up theroad to a nearby gas station and she
tried calling a few more people,you know, a few more times.
She just kept repeatedly trying to callpeople. She had no luck. So,
of course, this is before answeringmachines, call waiting any of that
(33:07):
shit, yea, in nineteen eighty. So she decided to walk back to
where her car was and kind ofwaited out, and about twenty minutes later,
the same man Little again drove upand asked if she needed a ride.
This time, she decided to justhave him drop her off at home,
(33:29):
only he did not take her home. The twenty three year old was
lucky to survive after being beaten andsexually assaulted in a location off the road.
When Little tried to move her toa new location, Margie was able
to jump from the moving car.She rolled down like a highway embankment,
(33:50):
and thankfully there was a little otherdamage done from her trying to escape,
other than of course, she wasassaulted and beaten, but she was able
to get away, and she wasclearly able to identify Dwaine Lee Little as
the offender. As the attacker.This time he was convicted and it stuck,
so Little was convicted of attempted homicide. He was sentenced on November twenty,
(34:15):
nineteen eighty to three life sentences tobe served. Concurrently, all of
the appeals for parole so far havebeen denied and he is currently serving out
his terms in the Oregon State Penitentiary. So he's all his first life sentence.
He's got two more to go.Sweet. Yeah, there has still
(34:37):
been no movement in the Cowden familymurder case. It has been nearly fifty
years, so next year will befifty years since these horrible crimes took place,
and it is still being worked bylocal law enforcement. It's also being
worked by the FBI. So theyhave asked many times that if anybody remembers
(34:59):
any anything and that you know wasin the area that day, remembers anything
at all, it may be ofassistance to them, even if you don't
think it is, and they askfor people to reach out. But there
is nothing new that's been released indecades as far as information. All the
news articles replay this same information overand over and over again, so every
(35:24):
few years, you know, it'sremembering this crime that took place, and
you know, probably family members aretrying to get it back in the news
and have it discussed. It isa highly discussed case. There are a
lot of podcasts that have covered it. It's in the media a lot.
(35:45):
It's there's no shortage of discussion aboutit. There's nothing that I can see
that comes out that's new, Soit's it's just very stagnant and if the
police, the sheriff, the statepatrol, or the FBI have anything that
(36:07):
they're holding onto I there's never beenanybody else that's been closely tied to it
or named as a person of interestor discussed like little husband h he hasn't
confessed to it. So apparently oneof his salemates says that he did confess
(36:30):
to it, but of course theycan't. If anybody ever tries to talk
to him, he completely and adamantlydenies anything. And you know, sometimes
you have to be careful what inmateswill say about other inmates because they might
be looking for shortened terms on theirown sentences. And the whistleblower. Yeah,
(36:53):
so while there are people who youknow, in good faith do that,
and I don't know, that's Ithink a discussion for another podcast,
but that's not viable proof of anything, you know, that's hearsay. So
(37:15):
other than that, no, headamantly denies. He and his family were
not in the area. They don'tknow anything about. It wasn't them,
He wasn't there, no idea.Yeah, very unfortunate and it it I
can see why he would be lookedat even, you know, with just
(37:39):
the one crime that he committed thathe was convicted for. You know that
they say they have evidence that provedthat he did it of or La Fay,
But being sixteen and committing that violentof a crime, I wonder was
(37:59):
there other things that happened before thator he just went right to that.
It's a little unusual. But Ican't see what the violentness, you know,
how violent that crime was that hewould be heavily looked at with the
four murders. I just don't knowwhat they have that makes him such an
(38:20):
isolated suspect. So that's that's thequestion there. And it makes me wonder
did they focus on him and overlooksomething, overlook some other people that might
have been just as capable of thiscrime. Yeah, there's really no way
of knowing that, I guess,and police did look at Richard, but
(38:46):
I mean, he died tied upto a tree. You don't tie yourself
up to a tree. How himself, I don't know, and they don't.
They've not released how he was killed, just that he did die while
he was tied up to that tree. So he may have just been left
and could not get out of thebindings. And you know, there again
(39:10):
for what what for? So Idon't I don't know if something wasn't overlooked,
And that's what I worry about.Fifty years later, you're not going
to find it. Not at thispoint. You're yeah, it's whatever,
whatever possibility of anybody else that couldhave been a suspect. Is it's gone
(39:31):
you know crazy? Yeah, yeahit is. It's just one of those
ones we may never know. Andthe family, you know, has gone
on fifty years with no answers.But I'm curious to know everybody else's thoughts,
if if you have looked at thiscase, because like I said,
(39:55):
it's it's a pretty well known casein this area, like for Pacific Northwest,
and it gets talked about on I'vefound Reddit feeds, so there's there's
things that kind of get brought up. So let us know your thoughts.
If you think he's a good suspectand they were right to look at him,
(40:15):
or is he is he one ofa possibility and maybe they overlook something.
I don't know. Tell us whatyou think, all right, don't
forget. We've got our live showcoming up September first, which is a
Friday, so six pm Pacific Standardtime. We're gonna be on Instagram and
Facebook. We're doing a live Whatthe fuck, guys, It's gonna be
(40:38):
amazing YouTube. Yeah didn't I saythat? Did I say Facebook? Again?
I mean YouTube? I don't knowwhy I say that. Yeah,
forget that I said that all right, everybody, Well, thank you so
much for listening. We greatly appreciateall the support, and as we always
(40:59):
say, they kind of one anotherand stay out of down woods, especially
camping. I just can't do itanymore. I don't think. I think.
Yeah, all right, guys.Thanks
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