The murders of Ed and Minnie Maurin

Hello, campers! The days may be getting shorter and the nights a little colder, but the campfire is still going strong here in the woods.
Thanks for stopping by for this week's episode! We have a special guest host and a brand-new case to share with you.

Olivia is with us to share the heartbreaking case of the deaths of Ed and Minnie Maurin. The case went unsolved for several decades due to a lack of evidence and witness statements. Thankfully, this one does have a conviction and the elderly couple and their remaining family can maybe be at peace.

Thanks, Olivia!

Thank you to all our supporters on Patreon If you are missing the WTF episodes, head over to our Patreon channel and subscribe to get in on the action!

We wish everyone a wonderful Thanksgiving holiday, filled with love and joy found with family and friends.

Information from this episode:

https://youtu.be/PjNDnpYUkSA?si=WDWaBTV0dKNcANbC

https://thecinemaholic.com/edward-and-minnie-maurin-murder-where-is-rick-riffe-now/

https://casetext.com/case/state-v-riffe-5

Cold Case Files, S1 Ep2 aired March 6, 2017, on Netflix

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
What Happens in the Woods is atrue crime podcast. We discuss events that
are often violent in nature. Listeners, discretion is advised. Hello and welcome.

(00:32):
You guys have made it back tothe campfire for a new episode,
and we have a special episode foryou today. It's an inaugural episode of
a sorts Hey, Bryce, Hello, what news do you have for us
today? What updates? Yes?Yeah, yes, so I this is

(00:56):
not true crime related, but youguys, I'm I am still devastated that
Matthew Perry has passed away. Iwant to watch Friends, but I don't
want to watch Friends. No,I can't even watch like the like.
Oh I haven't introduced you yet,No you haven't, So I don't know
why i'm speaking. I'm a badYeah. Everybody. Olivia is with us

(01:17):
for this episode. Hello, Hello, Sorry, it's fine. I didn't
know if I should stay stay quietor not. So, yeah, you
weren't. You weren't directed to talk. Sorry, my bad. It's fine.
We also have two podcast puppies withus. Now, now you all
you know who's in the room.Yeah, that's it. Yeah, that's
it. There there is nobody elsein this room, so let's hope.

(01:41):
Yeah, but yeah, I'm verysad. It's very, very hard.
I still have not told Hayley.Oh my god, I don't know how
to say it. I think youshould, I be honest, I can
honestly, she'd be devastated. Yeah, yeah, I thank god she's kind
of oblivious to things. She wouldn'tshe'd be like, I don't think so.

(02:02):
I just I am traumatized from whenshe watched the end of Titanic and
and Jack died and oh my god, well even when like Cameron Boyce passed
away. Yeah, that was reallythat was for her, really hard for
her. Yeah, for those whodon't know, Cameron Voice is a Disney

(02:24):
star, like he was a Disneykid. He was pretty popular, and
he he passed away a few yearsago, and that was like one of
Hailey's favorite actors. But that's whereit's. I just I don't want to
I don't want to be in aworld where there's like people are something I
like to watch, are are passingaway. When Betty White died, I

(02:47):
stopped. I mean it was thebeginning of the year just exactly like,
Yeah, I stopped living. Thatwas it. Yeah, I knew this
year was going to be absolute dogshit. Yeah. Yeah, we still
have Dolly Parton. No, wehave Dolly. Yeah. But even with
Selene Dion, she's got some healthproblems going on right now. Has she

(03:07):
not had like health problems for liketwenty years or something. She has been
like it's getting to the point whereshe's not even performing anymore. Like she's
had a cancer. Okay, shewas just in that movie. Did you
watch that movie on Netflix with NickJonas's wife. No, it's actually pretty
cute. You should watch it.Your dad's not interested, but it is

(03:29):
a cute movie. It's like arom com. It's a cute movie.
No, that was. Selene Dionwas one of the songs that played to
Break the Ice with Vanessa. Yes, we went on along road trip and
I was like, oh, playsome family music. No, I required

(03:49):
driving music. And so your dadchallenged me to sing songs. So he
played Selene Dion, He played WhitneyHouston, all the greats, all the
classes yes that you know were belting, belting, and I rose to the
occasion. I'm sorry, but we'rea really cultured fucking family. The fact

(04:12):
that my dad just said belting asa choir term, yeah, come on,
he knows all I'm saying is somesome dads, they don't know what
that means. Uncultured swine. Ihad two choir kids, I had done
lots of bingo. Nobody understands whatthe references. Oh, in California,

(04:36):
you could do bingo to pay forschool activities and so yeah, that was
a volunteer. You can volunteer andyou make some time, make money while
you're doing it. Yeah. Yeah, poor dad. Oh he loved it.
Your mom not so much. No, because they're rude. I like

(04:58):
playing bingo, Yeah, you likeplaying Yeah. Hey, I want a
lot of money, damn it.And I believe it or not, I
was a I was a bingo caller. Yeah. Well I think it's a
missed opportunity. Honey. I thinkyou had a calling in life that you've
ignored. Yeah. Yeah, no, I did it. You fully blossomed

(05:20):
that bingo call That's how my daughtergot to go to Ireland. Oh yes,
bingo paid for those trips for herchoir trips. Yeah. I need
to. I need to go backto Ireland, and I need to somehow
get Hosier to fall in love withme so he can write a song about
me, a whole album about youryour love and breakup. Yes, yeah,

(05:43):
goals, life goals. Yeah,that's how Mara got the Disney World.
Yeah yeah, I got to Ireland, she got Disney World. I
any any updates? Price still UKand the lead outside but still in the
United States. It's still very,very fascinating. Yeah what is that?

(06:10):
Let me say bring it back up. The number two in the United States.
Guesses Connecticut. Mmm, I don'tknow, Florida, Tahas. Who
Texas? Oh oh, oh,hello Texas. That's probably your sister.

(06:31):
Not no, no, unless she'sdownloading over two hundred times. Oh,
I don't know. I don't know. Okay, high Texas. It's not
in Dallas Fort Worth. Ohkay,it's all over. Well. Hello,
well, welcome to the Campfire,Texas. Hello, Hello, all right,

(06:56):
well this episode is coming right beforethey so we want to you know,
take the time to wish everybody happy, you know day with your family
and really try to kick off theholiday season with you know, remembering what's
important. So of course family isimportant, and I always encourage people to

(07:18):
help others when they're in need.And this year, you know, it's
hitting people harder than most, soI I just encourage everybody you know,
don't just keep walking past people whoare in need and you see and it's
a nuisance or you're annoyed or you'rescared or whatever. They're they're going through

(07:40):
shit. Everybody's going through shit.So not to be Debbie down or anything,
but I always feel like this isthe time of season when we should
kind of reflect on that, andI think talking about true crime really brings
that to maybe even another level.Like, you know, we talk about
people who have long loved ones andthe holidays aren't the same for them anymore,

(08:03):
you know, when your family isbroken like that. So I just
you know, be thankful for whatyou have, I guess is what I'm
trying to say. And do goodwhere you can do good, and hopefully,
you know, the holidays treat youwell. And we definitely are thankful
for each and every one of youguys, and thankful for the Patreon members

(08:28):
that we have. We have afew people who have joined, so thank
you for the support. We reallyappreciate it. And yeah, on the
piggyback of that, like I remembermy dad because he was an NCO and
my dad was in the Air Forcefor twenty three years, and of course
Veterans Day and then Thanksgiving. Mydad would always bring home airmen that were

(08:54):
new to the Air Force or newto the base and they would spend Thanksgiving
with us. Yeah, yeah,yeah, we I mean similar. It's
kind of thing because my grandfather wouldwe always had extra people at the table.
And that was one of the thingsthat I it never failed to shock

(09:15):
me, or I guess just Iwas in awe of him being able to
strike a strike up a conversation withsomebody on the street and see if they
had a place to go for theholidays, or did they have a place
to go for a hot meal.And and you know, there were many
times when we had homeless people thatmy grandfather just brought in from off the

(09:37):
street to come and have a mealwith us, and on any given day
could happen. So it's I thinkthat, you know, those are the
things that people are not willing todo anymore because you just don't know what
you're letting in your house. Butespecially yeah, yeah, and I'm not
saying we're the most skeptical. I'mnot saying that, But there are avenues

(10:01):
that you can, you know,get maybe if you're interested in that,
donate a Turkey. Yeah, somethinglike that. There there's just always good
things to do this. Yeah,like Jess said, the economy is hitting
harder for more people than you know. And if you have it, do
what you can, do what youcan. Yeah, yeah, I try.

(10:22):
And I have lost a couple ofumbrellas because I've handed them out to
like people who have had broken umbrellasstanding in the pouring rain here in Washington.
Yeah. Never rang, I'm donewith you, no, no,
but yeah, I've I've given awaya couple of blankets, a couple of

(10:43):
umbrellas, just just to help whenI can. Yeah, because winters are
getting colder and summers are getting hotter. Yeah, it's crazy, crazy times.
We live in a mad world,and we're about to talk about a
story that doesn't it's not going togive you the feels. I guess we

(11:07):
could say. Butsgiving. Yeah,Thanksgiving, guys. I don't know where
I was going with that. Thatwas that was we I wanted to say,
I appreciate everybody that's listening and youknow, spread spread the love.
So happy Thanksgiving and also kind ofto to speak. I was also going

(11:28):
to mention Happy Veterans Day, HappyVeterans thank you. Yeah, I think
why I thought of Honikah coming NoDecember seventh, I think, yeah,
I think it's that's early. Ithink so. I could be wrong.

(11:50):
I could be very wrong, butI think so. But yes, thank
you for everybody for your service.If you are a veteran, it is
it is not something I could everdo, so I definitely appreciate. I
think Thanksgiving is just or November isthe season of Thanksgiving, So thank you.
All right. So the reason Oliviais here no is she actually has

(12:15):
a case to share with us guys. So I'm gonna turn it over to
Olivia. I'm here for moral support. Honey, it's all right, You're
okay, you're doing great. Soyou're doing good, Sweatie, that's my
girl. Olivia's got a case totell us. That is going to be.

(12:37):
It's gonna be a long one,so buckle in, yes, get
your What is it that Beth andChristy always say from crimes and closets?
Hold on to your pants? Yeah, hold on to your pants. Hold
on you hold on to your pants, all right, take it away?
Okay. So first I'm gonna putout a little disclaimer because throughout I don't
really necessarily say which one I getthe information from. So I kind of

(13:03):
just want to put a disclaimer that, yes, for this case, there
is a Cold Case Files episode,but I am mostly going off like the
court documents and a couple of otherarticles that I found. I will do
my best to try and tell youwhat came from where, But just so
you guys have an idea. Butyeah, let's get into it. So

(13:24):
I'm gonna take you back to Christmastime of nineteen eighty five. Oh,
the holidays. Yes, And tobe exact, we're going to December nineteenth
of eighteen or nineteen eighty five.My bad, We're not going that far
old timy time. Yeah, we'regonna be going to a little town here

(13:46):
in Washington called sh hay List.That is a tongue twister for me.
Around this time, she ha Listwas mostly used for logging in railroads and
had a population of about six thousandpeople. Wow, that's really small.
Yeah. But today, specifically,we will be talking about the case of
Edward Murrin or ed and Wilahima MaryMurrin or Mini. Ed was eighty one

(14:13):
and Many was eighty three. Theywere both well known in the community of
Lewis County. If you asked around, they were commonly known as everyone's grandparents.
Essentially, they owned a one hundredand twenty acre Christmas tree farm,
helped people in their community who neededjobs, and were well established in their
church. So just six days beforeChristmas, Ed and Mini were hosting their

(14:37):
annual Christmas dinner pot look for thecouples of their church like they did every
year, and when people started toshow, they anxiously waited for the couple
to open the door. But aftera few minutes of waiting, they realized
both the couple and their car weregone, and a few people noticed that
it is unusual for the couple tonot be on the property when they had

(15:01):
events planned. So one of thechurch members knew Ed and Minnie's daughter in
law, Shirley. She called upShirley and told her what was happening,
and Shirley knew obviously how out ofthe ordinary this was, decided to drive
down and check it out. WhenShirley arrived, the door was locked,
guests were gone, and the couple'scar missing. Concerned, Shirley didn't call

(15:26):
police yet, but instead called familymembers or neighbors to see if anyone knew
what was going on, and whenshe couldn't get an answer, she decided
to unlock the door and enter thehouse. She noticed big statements scattered all
over the living room and bathroom,Minnie's pursed behind the couch with a newspaper
covering it, and Ed's watch onhis nightstand. Obviously, these things surely

(15:52):
knew were out of the ordinary,and then she decided to call Lewis County
Police and immediate family to come tothe farm. When police did their walkthrough,
they noticed there was no sign offorce entry or violence in the home,
just the scattered papers, a missingcar, and two missing people.

(16:14):
Police asked neighbors if they seen orheard anything to the episode. They didn't
really give out if neighbors said anything, but in the court documents they have
reported some said they heard unknown voicesand they saw unfamiliar men in or around
the property. A woman reported acar following her through the neighborhoods, but

(16:41):
suddenly the car disappeared and she didn'tsee the face. So what time in
the like, what time in theday were they supposed to have this pot
luck? Around five? Six pm? Oh so it was like an evening
mm hmmm, yeah, it wasnobody had seen them that day. No,
yeah, and everyone because they're verywell known in the community. Everyone

(17:07):
knows where everyone is, essentially,yeah, and so everyone was a little
worried. Another neighbor saw a weirdcar in the driveway but assumed everything was
fine because there was no He didn'thear anything of concern. But oddly enough,
a truck driver saw two men aroundeight or nine am walking near the

(17:32):
Murins with what looked like a rifle. But yes, but because it was
covered, they just told police itwas a three foot object because they couldn't
have been certain. But I thinkyou could be certain, I you would
think, so maybe is hard tomistake. I mean, I wouldn't be

(17:52):
able to name what kind of rifleit was. But no, yeah,
okay. With family also arriving onthe property, police were able to ask
questions right away. No one knewanything or heard from the couple, except
for Minnie's son Dennis Hadler and grandsonMike Hadler. When they were on their

(18:14):
way to Mike's job around five thirtyam. They were call seeing the Murrins
house lights and thinking it was odddue to the fact of how early it
was, but they went on asusual, and police didn't want to make
anyone worry too much, so theystarted it as a missing person slash kidnapping
case, but it was about totake a turn for the worst. The

(18:37):
next cold December morning, the policegot a call from two women who were
cutting through the Yardbird shopping mall sayingthey saw a man get out of what
looked like the Meurns car and runtowards the wood woods with an item covered
with a white cloth. They didn'tname the two detectives, but they arrived

(18:59):
on and they confirmed that it wasthe Murins Green nineteen sixty eight Chrysler,
and of all three sources, thiswas so important to everyone. But it
was so cold that there was stillice and fog on the car, and
for some reason a detective did notwant to put his handprints on there,

(19:23):
so he blew hot air on thecar to do what just to look through
in the car. I don't knowwhy that was so important. He couldn't
have put gloves on. I don'tknow. They didn't specify why, but
they just said all three documents thatI looked at, all three sources said
he blew hot air. Okay,I don't know, know that that would

(19:45):
be effective, especially with that ice. I don't know. It was very
early in the morning. It wasabout like seven eight am in the morning,
and so it was still pretty coldin a December Washington, and they
can get to the twenties if it'snot snowing. Yeah, I don't,
okay, especially in Sha Halis.Yeah, yeah, I did. I

(20:10):
don't quite understand that I would thinkthat an officer would have gloves that he
would be able to, you know, open a car or at least like
shove off some of the ice thatwas on the take a towel or something.
I don't know. It was justvery important that he blew the hot
air. Oh yeah, I mean, I guess if you're trying not to

(20:33):
disturb something because you don't know whatyou're looking at, I guess sure,
Yeah, I don't know. Sohe looked into the little hole that he
made with his hot breath, andhe he was on the passenger side.
He saw that the keys were stillin the ignition and the interior of the
car was covered in blood, alongwith blood dripping out the passenger side door.

(20:56):
Detectives also found a man's hat,a white shoe, cracks in the
speedometer on the driver's side. Theythought it was possibly from a shotgun.
They also found cigarette buds and ared blanket laid on top of the driver's
seat. After collecting all the evidencethey could find, there was no body,

(21:17):
no weapon, and no fingerprints.With little to no hard evidence,
police had nothing to go on,so as police were still trying to keep
it a missing person slash kidnapping.Even after finding their car, they started
putting together search parties and people weregiven sections of the town to search,
and nothing was found until sadly,four days later, a man was driving

(21:40):
down a logging road and when hesaw what looked like CPR dummies, he
stopped, But when he got closerhe realized it was worse than he ever
could imagine. There on the sideof the road was a female body,
and a little further up was amale body hidden in the brush. It's

(22:00):
never a CPR dummy. Never,it's never a mannequin, it's never no
people. I don't know. Idon't know, because when I read that,
I was like, why is thatyour first thought is a CPR dummy.
I just think on a logging roadpeople are optimistic. I guess I

(22:23):
yes, because you're right, You'reright. It's it's a it's your mind
trying to make a connection of whatyou know. Yeah, well, I
mean I don't think they want tofind a dead body, you know,
and they're like, oh, that'sthat can't be a dead no, And
you your brain tries to associate withwhat's familiar. So if I don't know

(22:44):
what this gentleman's job was, butif he has seen a lot of CPR
dummies, then that might be whathis first thought is. Because you're you're
familiar with that. Most people arenot familiar with finding bodies on the side
of a logging road. So Iguess I get that. But it always

(23:07):
it's not funny, but it's Idon't know how else to say that.
It's odd if people that that's theirfirst thing is oh, it's a mannequin,
or oh it's yeah, it's never, it's never. I don't know,
because even if it was like freezingor whenever, why how would a
body skin look like? Would itbe as cold and as white as they

(23:32):
make it seem? And like themovies, I think it depends. Yeah,
if if it's cold enough, Ithink so. But I do think
the like I think the post mortem. I was actually just listening to a
podcast with Paul Holes. There arecertain things that can happen if if it

(23:52):
is cold enough, it can preserve, and yes, if they're if the
blood drains a certain way, thenyes that area can look very white,
very pale. But then it alsodepends upon where the bodies were, if
they've always been out and cold,or if they were inside and then went

(24:14):
out into the cold. There's alot of like things that can happen post
war. Yeah, so I thinkit is it can't happen in certain factors,
and if they were outside this entiretime, then they probably would look
very, very cold, pale.Yeah. Yeah, that's what I was
trying to like connect, was whyhe thought it was a CPR dummy.

(24:37):
I was like, well, maybebecause it's been so cold. Yeah,
they were just completely whitened out.But obviously he immediately calls nine to one
to one as one does. Asone does. Then everyone's worst fear was
confirmed. Both the bodies were identifiedas Ed and Mini Marin. They were
officially pronounced deceased to the public,and it was also known that many died

(25:00):
from a shot to the left shoulderand neck area. And Ed died from
a shot quote unquote, almost squarein the back. Police also noticed it
looked like they were dragged to theirspots, so this made police think that
they were dead before they were placedin the ditch. Around the bodies,
they also found bullet casings, apair of glasses, a comb, frozen

(25:23):
blood, puddles and dentures. Acomb. Yeah, it was Ed's.
It's comb. The only evidence foundat the scene that was remotely useful was
a bank statement found in Ed's pocket. With that, they found out Ed
actually called the bank and went inthe same morning they went missing. Police

(25:48):
went to the bank to go questionthe bank teller that helped him that day.
She told police Ed came or calledaround ten am that morning to make
plans to withdraw five hundred dollars.I'm sorry, this is a small community.
Did does bank teller not recognize thatthese people were being looked for that?

(26:11):
There was like, no, notat the time. No, she
thought it was a normal thing.Well, I mean, but it gets
crazier. It gets crazier though,hold on, okay, sorry, So
after he made plans to withdraw eightyfive hundred dollars an hour later or so,

(26:32):
he came to pick it up.The teller said that Ed told him
he was buying a car, butwhen the family was questioned about it,
they had no idea what was happeningand why he needed that much money m
hm. So after their little catchup conversation, the teller then went on

(26:56):
to tell Ed that it would bea couple more minus to get all the
bills, and so Ed patiently wentout and waited in his car, and
when the money was ready, shewent out to the Mertons car to hand
him the money. But she gotmaybe ten feet close to the car and
he immediately runs right up to her, and she was not positive. But

(27:22):
she did say that she noticed ahuman shadow in their back seat along with
the form of Mini, but shewasn't sure, so she didn't say anything.
You will see that becomes a it'sa theme. It's a theme,
okay. And with that, hegrabbed the money and was on his way.

(27:48):
He went all through town. Everyonereported that they saw him and Minnie
and a random guy in the backseat going all through town. So when
did people come forward with that information? Not until a lot later. So
it's I can't believe that this isnot all over the news that you know,

(28:11):
like these elderly people who are prominentmembers of this community are missing.
As the police are saying, thefamily is probably devastated. It's right before
Christmas. This has to be allover the news, all over the community.
Nobody came forward in the four daysin between the incident of them not
being at home and then their bodiesbeing found and saying they saw them.

(28:37):
No one said with people anything thefuck is wrong with these people? Well,
okay, police at this point havea theory okay, either A they
were too afraid to say who itwas or B they truly did not know
who was in the back seat.Okay, but even just say I saw

(28:59):
Edge in their car with many hedid when police have asked them. Most
of them well yeah, but whenpolice asked. But I'm just saying people
didn't come forward. I'm just havingno. They did not come forward on
their own. They only came forwardwith some form of information when asked by

(29:21):
the police. Okay, very helpful. So with police being frustrated because no
one was identifying the man the mysteryman in the back seat, they had
no choice but to go back tothe two women who saw the mystery man
running away from the car in theYardbird parking lot. The women described him
as a man with dark, shaggyhair, dark eyes, small growth of

(29:44):
a beard, and a mustache.He was everybody. It's everybody, everybody.
He was wearing a stalking cap anda green army coat. Okay,
well that's something at least, butthere again, nuts everybody. I think
it was everybody at that point.Yeah, But with that description the women
gave, the police had to thepolice had a composite sketch drawn and printed

(30:08):
posted everywhere, took pictures of everyonewho matched that description and printed an eight
x ten copy and made a photolineup. But when witness were shown the
pictures, no one could identify theman, and the media never called with
any clues. With no evidence,lack of forensic evidence, no trace of

(30:30):
the murder weapon, and every leadbeing dismissed, the case went cold until
four years later. But then we'llget back to that later because now it's
break time. Okay, all right, welcome back from the break. We

(30:51):
are about to discuss four years later, in April of nineteen ninety. Okay,
so what did they find four yearslater, Well, actually a lot
more than they did four years earlier, I would hope. So. Yeah,
police actually got a call from thebrother of Scott Coulter. He tells
police he overheard his brother Scott braggingand laughing about committing the murders. Scott

(31:18):
was reported to have said, oh, yeah, I got that bitch.
I killed her grandparents and I gottheir savings too. End quote. Okay,
so how is he connected? Sohe was actually one of the granddaughter's
ex husband, so he was apart of the family at some point.
Oh, he also had a criminalhistory of violence, drug addiction, drug

(31:45):
dealing, and burglaries. Well hesounds like a real keeper. Yeah,
he's just loveless, extend up kindof guy. Yeah, just who i'd
loved for my grandchild to bring homeexactly. Yeah. But sadly, when
police got word of his involvement,they knew he wouldn't just talk to them,

(32:07):
so they had to plan what theycalled a mister big Sting operation.
Mister big Sting. Oh yeah,I know all about that from their Canadian
friends. Eh. So they madea meeting, and they met at the
Tacoma Narrows International Airport, where detectivespretended to be a part of the mob

(32:30):
looking to initiate Scott. The factthat people fall for this shit just I
don't know, stand okay, justrandomly to guys, are just like,
you want to be a part ofthe mob. Yeah, the mob doesn't
like what do they call that?Recruit? Well, they initiate, I'm

(32:51):
sure, but recruit or no,what's what's that called? Spearhead? No?
Head head hunt? Yeah, headhunt, spearhead, I don't know,
spearhead. I don't know. Thefucking mob's not gonna knock on your
door and be like, hey,use yeah, you want to join.

(33:14):
They don't fucking do that. That'snot how that works. No, but
they got him, okay, theytrapped him in a car. So as
they're trying to initiate him, thepolice lashed the mob. They need Scott
to confess something he had done thatwas so serious he wouldn't dare tell anyone.

(33:35):
So obviously Scott was a little hesitantand a little scared, so police
tried to egg him on, andScott he got a little shy, He
got a little scared. So policewere trying to egg him on, saying
we heard you were part of ajob in Shahla's area that killed two people

(34:00):
or you are man lo and behold, Scott starts talking about murdering an elderly
couple mm hmm, saying I gothim, took him to the car,
took him to the yardbird center andso lo and behold, Scott talks about

(34:22):
murdering an elderly couple, saying,I got him in the car, took
him to yardbirds center and I Sohe takes his hand, makes a fake
Yeah. And when they asked whatkind of gun did Scott use, he
said a twenty two m h Policeknew right then and there Scott didn't kill

(34:46):
the murins because what actually killed himwas a twelve gage shotgun. Yeah.
Why would he brag about that becausehe wants to get in with the mob.
He won't spread before. Yeah,he was bragging to somebody about it.

(35:07):
But I don't know why because hewasn't even the one who did it.
Like, there's no credibility there.Yeah, but he's trying to get
street cred. Yeah, I meanthink about all he's he's been doing crimes,
but smaller crimes. Yeah, sohe wanted in, Yeah, he

(35:31):
wanted some street cred. Well,you blew your shot, yeah, I
mean you did not Hamilton, thatshit so world to like. Word to
the wise, that's what I'm tryingto say. Word to the wise.
Don't claim to have committed crimes thatyou didn't actually do, because at some

(35:52):
point you might actually end up introuble for those crimes. I mean,
people are convicted for crimes that theydon't commit all the time. You really
don't want to go to jail forshit that you didn't do. Just so
like with with the people who actuallydo commit the crime, they want the
credibility, they want the street credso they'll come to you. They will

(36:15):
find you and do something about it. So that's why we just don't talk
about things that didn't happen to us. I mean, we don't gossip.
We shouldn't shouldn't have to say that, but I mean, no, but
whatever. But with that devastating turnof events, they had no choice but

(36:35):
to look at evidence again. Andwhen they started looking at what they found
with the bodies and the car,they saw cigarette butts and they realized the
couple didn't smoke. They didn't realizethis four years previous. I don't think
they were working very hard when theyfirst got the case. Was it the

(37:01):
state police or was it like thesheriff's department. Who was it? Was
it the sheriff's department. They mightnot have been equipped even I mean it
was eighty five. Yeah, thereare evidence, and forensic evidence probably was
not the best. No, Andthere just wasn't like a developmented, developmental

(37:22):
like training program for forensic science thingslike that in smaller communities, especially in
like the small town that we're talkingabout, like it was logging and railroads.
Yeah. Might they just might nothave had the training. Yeah,
you would think that that would comeup, like, oh, is this
the brand of cigarettes that your grandparentsor your parents used to smoke? I

(37:45):
don't know. I should have beena detective in the eighties. You should
have. I could have done it. I was five, but okay a
five year old detective. I wasseven years old. I could have doge.
How are that shit? Hell yeah. But when they finally realized that
the elderly couple did not smoke,they found out that Minnie's grandson, who

(38:10):
we have previously mentioned, Mike Cadler, did smoke, and he did also
have a pass of violence and drinkingand was getting back into the bar fight
scene because he was so devastated,but it wasn't enough to convict him.
So they had nothing again because hehe proved that they were not his brand,

(38:35):
They were not the ones that hesmoked. He proved it, and
they were like, ah shit,I mean, would he have like financially
gained in any way would have beenthe motive for him to kill his They
couldn't think of one. He didn'tneed eighty five hundred dollars for some reason,
because he had a pretty good job. Okay, what I don't mention

(38:57):
in here is one part of thefamily. They also have their own logging
company in which Mike Hadler did workat at the time, and so he
was making pretty good money. Hedidn't need to kill people for money,
not eighty five dollars. No.Yeah, so he was doing okay,
he was still getting into bar fights, but he was doing somewhat okay.

(39:21):
I mean, work out your emotionaltrauma. It's fine, how boys.
But so he didn't really, therewouldn't have been any motive. No,
no motive to killed his grandparents.No. I think the only reason why
they put two and two together wasbecause he smoked and he also saw the
house the same morning that they disappeared. He was It was him and his

(39:43):
dad were the ones that said theysaw the light but didn't think anything of
it. Okay. So, sadlyenough, another fourteen years passed and we're
in two thousand and four, andyou know, with fifteen plus years of
a case, policemen and detectives eitherretire or they just quit, or they

(40:07):
find a new profession, and sohe was given to a newly policeman,
Bruce Kimsey. Kimsey is the onlyname that came up when you talked about
like the policemen or the detectives ofthis case. The other ones they either
didn't provide their name or they didn'twant to be a part of the story.

(40:29):
So Kimsey is all that I have. But the hunt was back on,
and Kimsey was determined to look throughevery piece of evidence. And he
actually was pretty smart because even thoughI wouldn't have thought of this, after
going through the details slowly making surehe didn't miss anything, he realized something
very important to the case. Ifyou didn't realize the Marns grew up in

(40:52):
the early nineteen hundreds, meaning theygrew up and were young adults during the
Great Depression, during that time,it was very common to have more than
one bank account at more than onebank. And I even put a little
history lesson in here. During theGreat Depression, over nine thousand banks failed

(41:15):
and took seven million dollars with it, So people put various amounts in multiple
banks just in case the bank didn'tsurvive in the economy, or they quote
unquote hid their money in the walls. Oh yeah, furniture. I mean,
you hear about that kind of stuffall the time. Floorboards. Yeah,

(41:37):
they started it, they made itfamous because there was no trust.
Yeah, rightly, So there wasno trust in the banking system. And
I don't know when the FDIC stuffstarted. It was well after the Great
Depression. I couldn't give you ayear. But even after that happened,
they were there was no trust whatsoeverin the in the c So that's a

(42:01):
good call, though I don't knowthat I wouldn't have picked that up,
just like on my own. Imean, I think nowadays I would probably
think about that. But and thenmaybe two thousands, no, because credit
unions, maybe like in the latenineties, started to become a very popular

(42:22):
way of a better way of keepingyour money and a banking institution. Credit
unions weren't always a thing that everybodyhad access to. So I don't know
that I would think about that intwo thousand and four. Yeah, I
just know that me personally, Iwould not have thought about it. I

(42:44):
would think about it now because there'sonline banking. There's so many different I
mean I myself, like, there'smultiple banks. This Absolute Banking Act of
nineteen thirty three created the FDIC andwas signed by President Roosevelt in June sixteenth,
nineteen thirty three. So, Imean, I knew it was like

(43:05):
after the Great Depression, but it'spretty much a result of the Great Depression.
Yeah. Was that part of theNew Deal that he signed? Maybe,
But like that, Roosevelt's known forthe the New Deal. That doesn't
mention anything about the New Deal.Oh okay, it just says by almost

(43:28):
any measure, the FDIC has beensuccessful in maintaining public confidence in the banking
system. Yeah. Yeah, weall didn't know that. There's a little
history lesson for you if you didn'tpay attention, just like me. So
with this information, Kimsey wondered,why did ed only go to one bank
instead of the multiple he had?How many banks are in this small town.

(43:52):
Yeah, I don't know, becausethey didn't even give out like the
bank like the initial bank name.Oh so well, I have no idea
how many he had or who heoriginally went to. Interesting but didn't I
guess I'm confused again with the policework, were there not bank statements strewn

(44:15):
across the house there was? Myguess was they only found the most recent
one and they went with that likethe people who would have or did kidnap
them, they only found one?Okay, because then comes, well,

(44:37):
obviously it wasn't someone they were closewith who kidnapped them, because their closest
family would know how they operate andwhat they would do. So this took
off immediate family and close friends.So he started looking at people who worked
on the farm because these were theonly other people that Ed and Min would

(45:00):
be close too. Because they werebasically recluse and because they were about eighty
years old, they weren't moving much. Sure, but Kimsey was brought up
to another dead end. But hedid manage to go a little bit farther

(45:21):
and get the original photo lineup fromeighty five, and he noticed that they
were very hard to make out facialstructures because they were in black and white,
and they were copies of copies ofcopies, so you could not see
anything. No I yeah. Thetechnology, Yeah yeah, they described on

(45:44):
the actual episode of they took apolaroid and then they cut it out and
on they taped it to one blanksheet of paper and then put in like
ten people and then printed that multipletimes. Okay, So it was literally

(46:07):
copies of copies of copies. Sowith the two thousand and four you know,
new technology and all of that,he was able to basically restore the
original pictures from the polaroids. Okay. So we made up a secondary lineup

(46:28):
of the same people in different orderand in color this time. Okay.
He called all the same witnesses frombefore, hoped for new answers, but
there were still not saying anything new. Okay. Okay, this is where
it gets kind of crazy, sobear with me, kind of crazy,

(46:51):
kind of Okay, it's kind ofbeen a little bit of boring back and
forth. Police have a have aidea of where to go and end up
going nowhere. But this is whereit all starts getting a little spicy.
Okay, So if you don't haveyour pants held on toots. Okay,
Okay, are you ready for thetea? Yes, spill the tea.

(47:14):
Okay. Now I've mentioned Minnie obviously, I've mentioned her before. I've mentioned
Minnie's grandson, Mike Cadler a fewtimes. But now it's his time to
shine. Okay. So a littleover a year later, in November of
two thousand and five, Mike wason his way up to Oregon for a

(47:35):
hunting trip when he stopped for somegas in Vancouver, Washington, and then
he noticed an old buddy from highschool. Now, his name was not
one hundred percent. There were manydifferent names that he had in all the
sources. So we're just gonna callhim by his last name because that was
what was consistent. Okay, Sohis name is Shriver. Okay. So

(48:00):
Mike and Shrever were catching up,doing the whole conversation of Hey, I
haven't seen you in a while,how's your life, And that's when they
found themselves talking about the marine case. When all of a sudden, Shreiver
was yetting, nervous, sweating,and was needing to get something off his
chest. This is where it getscrazy. So he starts on the morning

(48:23):
of Ed and Minnie when they gomissing. On December nineteenth of nineteen eighty
five, Shreiver and his mom wereon Highway twelve when his car was merging
when this car when a random carwas merging onto the highway and ended up
in front of them. Both Shreiverand his mom recognized the car as the

(48:44):
Marines Green nineteen sixty eight Chrysler.It was going way under the speed limit,
so his mom just passed when Shreivergot a perfect look at who was
in the back seat. Is notone like everyone was saying, but two
people, Okay, And this iswhere we get the name Greg and Rick

(49:08):
Rife. And the only way heknows them is because they all worked at
Ed and Minnie's Christmas Tree farm.Okay, so he not only I positively
identified it them, but knows themfor sure. Mm hmm. And he
was living with this for twenty years. And why didn't he come forward with

(49:30):
this information because not only did hesee the Rife brothers, but they saw
him, oh shit, and theyrecognized him and you know, well,
it's how windows work. But yes, Shreiver saw it was a problem for
the brothers, and they made surehe was gonna stay quiet. So the

(49:50):
next day, one of the Rifebrothers went to Shreiver's house and threatened him,
saying, if you told anyone,it would be his family next and
they would be killed just like theMarins, one by one without him knowing.
Nobody knew they were dead yet,so he confessed also to murdering.
Huh, he had so much information. How old was this guy? Seventeen

(50:14):
at the time. He was seventeenand scared shitless, oh honey. And
he took that threat so seriously thatever since that day he's carried a gun
on him. Oh shit, mmhmm. And he made it very,
very like, he made everyone awarethat it was on him all the damn

(50:35):
time in the episode, because theyasked him like what would happen, like
did you have defense? And hewas like, yeah, I have a
gun in my drawer right now fivefeet away from him. Wow. Yeah,
he was not he was not havingit, okay, but he was
still scared. Yeah. But anyway, let's talk about the Rife Brothers.

(50:58):
Now, Okay, the Rife Brothers, they were known criminals in the town.
They were drug addicts, they wereviolent, they were robbers, child
abusers, rapists, and killers.Well, they sound great. They were
amazing, okay, And how dothey tie in? So everyone knew about

(51:21):
the Rife brothers. They knew whatthey looked like, what they did with
their lives, and how they choseto live. And the brothers made it
apparent for everyone to know them.And so now that police have had a
idea of who it was in nineteenninety two, it was made apparent that

(51:45):
after the brothers moved to Alaska ineighty seven, two years after the murders,
they were interviewed by Alaskan state troopers. How did they tie in to
the How were they from the community? They lived there? Okay, So
they lived in the community, sothey were well known. They were well
known. Everyone knew them, andthey knew everybody. So would add,

(52:08):
and many have known these two guys. Yes, okay, they worked on
the farm with them. Oh whydid they hire them? There was no
backstory as to why. But theywere known to give people who needed jobs.
They were known to give them jobs. Okay. They were very helpful

(52:29):
people, and they the brothers,took advantage of it. Yeah, sounds
like it. Okay. So ofcourse everyone knew they were dangerous and they
never dared to cross them. SoI was shocked to find out that they
actually police actually questioned them in nineteenninety two. In that year they also
found out that they moved to Alaskain eighty seven, two years after the

(52:54):
murder. Rick Rife was actually thefirst and only willing intervieweet. So with
a warrant and the help of theAlaskan State Troopers, they went out there
and they interviewed him. So whodid who the sheriff, one of the
old detectives that did not have aname, Okay, So in nineteen ninety

(53:17):
two and whoever was investigating at thattime went up there and like specifically to
interview them regarding this case. Howdid they get linked at that time to
the case? They started suspecting themfrom the start, but they never said
anything because they were so dangerous.So police suspected them, never gave it

(53:39):
out to the media or anything,and so they wanted to make somewhat sure
that they had enough evidence to questionthem. Okay, So in nineteen ninety
two, Rick was interviewed and therewas rumors that the brothers had a twelve
gage shotgun around the same time thatthe Muruns were murdered, which he does

(54:04):
confirm kind of okay, So hesays that him and his brother bought the
twelve gage the summer of eighty four, the year before the murders. He
also states that Greg, his brother, asked him to cut the barrel shorter,
so he had. He had thegun for a couple of weeks,
but when Greg got it back,he noticed that it was too short and

(54:28):
now illegal for use. Okay,I'm sure that little detail would not bother
people such as themselves, but sure, no, but he was very,
very fixated on it was illegal.We didn't use it, gotcha, Okay.
So somehow it got to their mother'shouse and their mother had thrown it
away in a lake. Okay,and that was the last of that.

(54:52):
Apparently the mother didn't even tell thebrothers that it was gone in a lake.
Uh huh, then how did theyfind out? Just hearsay? Hmm.
That's quite a story. It isquite a story because it's a famous
saying I lost all my guns ina boating accident. Is it is?
I have never heard that. Okay, a boating accident, and that's how

(55:15):
it ends up in the bottom ofthe lake. Yeah, yeah, makes
sense. So not only was therea speculation about a twelve gage. People
have seen Rick and Greg inn aarmy coat. Rick goes on to say,
I maybe have that. I don'tknow. I mean, it was

(55:37):
the eighties. Everybody had a fuckingarmy coat. He just said, quote
unquote, I'm not sure. Okay. So Rick was the only willing one,
and so he gave fingerprints, palmprints, and a hair sample.
Okay, no biggie with Greg,he was not so nice. So they

(55:59):
had to get warrants for his fingerprintsand his hair sample. One question.
He initially denied any involvement, butwhen asked again, he said, and
I quote, I don't know.I need time to think about it.
End quote. He this man startscrying in the interview, oh, and

(56:25):
immediately stops it and says, I'mnot answering any more questions. He started
crying. He started crying. Okay, that's an interesting turn of events,
especially when you're like, I needto think about it. He thought about
it and then started crying. Yeah, you know you're about to be somebody's

(56:45):
bitch in jail. That's why exactly. I just found it very amusing that
he started crying and then stopped theinterview Yeah, Okay, obviously it worked
though it was that was ninety twoand you're now in the two thousand,
So okay, now we're gonna haveto go back a little bit more,

(57:07):
just to the day of the murders. So do you remember when I talked
about a woman who said someone wasfollowing her through the neighborhoods and then suddenly
the car disappeared. Yeah, whenthere was word of them possibly getting arrested,
she later remembered that it was RickRife in the car following her exactly.

(57:34):
So people didn't want to talk becauseit was them, because it was
these That's what made this so difficult, because I wanted to say right from
the beginning. Yeah, And that'sunfortunate because I think that happens in a
lot of small communities where crimes likethis happens, because it's very easy for

(57:57):
people who are not afraid to beviolent to threaten a large number of people.
When it's a smaller group, it'sjust easier because they know that they're
so they basically have no one toprotect them, right. Yeah, And
especially because Rick and Greg were suchknown criminals in the community, everyone was

(58:22):
scared shitless of them. Wow,that's very sad. And so in twenty
twelve, that's when she finally waslike, okay, this is who it
was, and they they drove offand disappeared right before going to the direction

(58:43):
of Minnie's and eds. She justmiraculously she had a vision. She had
a vision, she had like aflashback, and was like, oh my
god, this is the person.Yeah, okay, and so now that
have a witness an eyewitness confirming thatit was Rick Rife. Kimsey in twenty

(59:07):
twelve tried to get arrest warrants forboth the brothers, but he found out
that earlier that year, Greg Rifedied of quote unquote old age. How
were they They were about twenty whenit was eighty five and now it's twenty

(59:27):
twelve, so they were probably aboutforty fifty forty something. Well, honestly,
they were drug addicts in their youngerlives. Yeah, I guess.
And I couldn't find much history aboutlike their childhood and like their their high
school years, and so I don'tknow if anything had happened then. Yeah,

(59:52):
but yes, he died until twelvebasically died of natural causes. Wow,
okay, but he was able togo get an arrest warrant for Rick
and bring him back to Washington.Okay, so when people found out more
people found out Rick was in custodyand being charged for the murders. Everyone

(01:00:19):
who gave a statement on the dayof the murder came out. It was
like, you got him. Itwas Rick and Greg. So now that
they had one of them in custody, everybody felt comfortable exactly saying oh,
yeah I had seen them. Yeah, like the bank teller. The bank
teller completely it was like, yeah, that was Rick Man. And then

(01:00:42):
some other people were like, yeah, that was Greg. Greg was in
the back. Were they were therephotos part of the lineup? Yes,
actually Greg was not not Rick,but Greg's was. And it's very import
Yes. They're known as the Rifebrothers, so they never they never did

(01:01:05):
things without the other. So everyonenow it was both of them. Wow.
Yeah, But was actually pretty coolwas one of his He had gone
to prison for a short amount oftime for other unrelated things, and an
excelmate actually came forward and was like, he admitted to me that he committed

(01:01:28):
this murder. He did it,but he never disclosed why he did it
or if he even had help fromhis brother. I mean chances are yes,
he never said that to anyone,not even the cellmate. He just
said, yeah, I murdered them. Never was remorseful or anything, never

(01:01:49):
explain himself. But he was arrestedand charged with and found guilty of first
degree murder count one and two,first degree kidnapping count three and four,
first degree robbery count five and six, and first degree burglary count seven.
Rick tried to argue that prosecutor committedmisconduct by solicitating false testimony due to the

(01:02:15):
excelmate testifying for a lesser drug chargeor a plea bargain, but he was
denied for the mistrial, and Rickwas sentenced to one thousand, two hundred
and thirty four months equaling to onehundred and two zero point nine years.
And that's not including the child abuseand rape charges he got charged with in

(01:02:39):
twenty fourteen. Oh wow, yeah, so November twenty thirteen was month and
year that he got arrested and hewas sentenced for the rest of his life.
Is there a possibility for parole?Nope? Oh okay, no,
no, Mercy, Well, Ican't say that I'm sad about that.

(01:03:02):
Yeah, I didn't even know untilyesterday that he had another charge on him
in twenty fourteen. I didn't readanything about it besides obviously the beginning of
it. Yeah, someone came outand was like, yeah, when he
got arrested, I came out.I was like, he abused me and
he raped me when I was tenyears old, when he was living with

(01:03:22):
me and my mom. Oh mygod. Yeah, and so I'm sure
he got a longer sentence, butoh my gosh. Other than that,
I couldn't find anything else on himever since. Before these murders, he
was nothing but a criminal in theair. Yeah, I hope all of
that made sense to your brains.Yes, that all made sense to me.

(01:03:45):
Okay, good, Yes, Yeah, that's it. So it took
them over twenty years. It tookthem approximately twenty or thirty two years,
thirty two years to find to yeah, to actually get at least find one
of Yeah, they were in theCold Case episode. They actually like were

(01:04:06):
talking about how they found him inAlaska in his house and it was nothing
but beer cans, cigarette smoke,and cigarette buds. He was actually hooked
up to a oxygen machine. Likeman was old and dying in his bed.
That was Rick or Rick. Ohyeah, okay, because by the

(01:04:31):
time they were questioning them in twentytwelve, Greg was already passed away.
Okay, So yeah, if youwant kind of like a visual of what
happened, definitely go watch the episode. But if you want more details,
I would look at the court document, okay, because there are some stuff

(01:04:54):
and you and I were talking aboutit earlier, where like if someone is
like, I don't want to bea part of this, I don't my
name to be a part of it, they kind of just leave it out
in a TV show. Yeah,that's kind of the problem. Not the
problem, because everybody has a rightto the anonymity. They have the right
to that for themselves. But withall of the true crime documentaries that come

(01:05:15):
out or you know, shows thatare coming out, things that are very
popular for people to watch now andthat are coming out, not everybody wants
to be on TV talking about acrime or a murder or you know,
kidnapping. That not everybody, youknow, that's their life goal. So

(01:05:36):
it but in having to omit thatstatement or whatever the case, maybe they
just kind of have to act likethe information is just not there at all,
And so it does make it difficultwhen you're kind of like researching.
Yeah, but I think that's thisis also a good thing to point out

(01:05:59):
to people who listen to true crimeor watch true crime. If the actual
court documents or legal documents are notavailable to get information from, it can
be very hard to give accurate information. So you cannot just trust what you
are hearing or reading or seeing onTV or in a news article. The

(01:06:21):
court documents are going to be themost legitimate source. That's that's the trouble
on Yeah, because I was thankfulthat I found the court document yeah,
and sometimes you can't. There havebeen a lot of cases where I cannot
find them or I can't get accessto them in time. And COVID really

(01:06:41):
screwed that up to because you usedto be able to walk in and make
a request and then it, youknow, was like all online and then
they started you have to pay forthem, to pay for them part of
the subscription thing, and it theydon't get things to you quickly. So
there have been there's actually been acouple of cases where I got the court
documents like well after and it didn'treally end up changing anything, and so

(01:07:05):
I didn't mention it, but it'shappened a couple of times now where it
was well after an episode was released, So the court documents are always I
think the best. Yeah, togo off of it if you can,
or first person account if you can, but yeah, it's not always available.
I kind of yeah, for me, I would kind of put like

(01:07:30):
an episode of something as the lastresort to go to because it is such
a short amount of time that you'regetting to watch one singular episode, so
they can only fit so much information, but it's still there's a lot of
holes in it. And I thinkthat's where I struggled the most when I
first started writing this episode was Ididn't know that there were court documents.

(01:07:55):
So I went strictly off a fewarticles and the episode and I was like,
none of this is making sense.Yeah, And it wasn't until I
got the court documents that I waslike, oh wait, I know what's
happening. Yeah, Well, thanks, Olivia, you're welcome. When's the
next one you did? Great?Thinks I'm sweating over here, It's all

(01:08:20):
right, I was telling Olivia thefirst time we recorded. We were re
recorded a couple of times our firstepisodes, and I took shots before we
recorded because I just the thought ofhaving to it's essentially speak to you.
It's it's essentially it's public speaking,and it is. Here's the Yeah,

(01:08:44):
it is. And this is themost of you guys have heard my voice.
And I promise I'm not a twelveyear old preteen. I am not.
You did good. Thanks. Itried really hard. It's not easy.
It's and the nature of what we'retalking about is not easy to discuss
either. So no, yeah,especially some I mean, this is somebody's

(01:09:09):
grandparents. These are people's Oh yeah, I love the family, my grandparents
as well. Now, it's justit's very hard because who knows what their
last moments were and over what eightyfive hundred dollars exactly. Yeah, it's
not worth it. No, Ido feel bad for their family because basically

(01:09:30):
that whole town because of how muchfear that they had over the brothers.
Yeah, and like how everyone wouldjust just describe them as grandparents like they
were everyone's grandparents. Yeah, andthat's what I mostly found about, like
people's opinions of the couple. Yeah, it's very I don't know it.

(01:09:53):
Christmas Tree form, which is likeyour dream job, Yes, all year
long, exactly, Mariah Carey.I need I need that Mariah Carey and
last Christmas by wam right, Ineed all of that. Yeah, all
year, all year. Your dadsays, no, well, he can

(01:10:16):
have Halloween and Thanksgiving all year.I will have my Christmas. You're not
the only one out there, butno, I can't do Christmas. And
I'm okay with that. Yeah,you know your people, Yes, you
know you're true. I'm alone aroundhere, but in the universe I am
not alone. No, no,all right, everybody, Well, we

(01:10:41):
want to thank you for tuning in. Please just make sure you have good
holidays. Whatever you guys got todo, have happy holidays, spend time
with your loved ones. We areso thankful for you and we appreciate you.
And remember you guys, stay outof the damn woods, even the
Christmas street farms. They're not safe. No, it's no good bye guys. Bye BM