December 20, 2024 • 35 mins
Hey, campers! Welcome back to the campfire for our latest episode. Before we wrap up 2024, Jess brings a case to discuss that showcases the downfalls of the system.
In August of 2021, an armed intruder would enter the home of Travis and Jamilyn Juetten. The couple was due to leave for a 2-week vacation to Hawaii which would never happen after the events in that early morning tragedy. Lives were lost and changed forever. But was it all preventable? The family says absolutely, it was and is now suing Marion County, Oregon to hold them accountable.
Join us as we take a look at this case and how it might have been prevented from happening. Share your thoughts with us on social media or by email.
Happy Holidays, campers! Many well wishes of peace and happiness from our family to yours
Information from this episode:
https://www.weddle-funeral.com/obituaries/travis-richard-juetten
https://justicefortravis.com/
https://www.gofundme.com/f/jamilyns-recovery-fund
https://www.kptv.com/2022/08/11/unsolved-marion-county-murder-family-victim-still-seeking-answers/
https://www.koin.com/news/koin-6-unsolved/reward-offered-in-unsolved-killing-of-travis-juetten-06282022/
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11466427/Cops-probe-link-Idaho-murders-similar-Oregon-stabbing-couple-beds-year.html
https://heavy.com/news/travis-juetten/
https://ourtownlive.com/ourtown/?p=16613
https://www.salemreporter.com/2024/12/10/family-of-victim-in-2021-stabbing-files-wrongful-death-lawsuit-against-marion-county/
In August of 2021, an armed intruder would enter the home of Travis and Jamilyn Juetten. The couple was due to leave for a 2-week vacation to Hawaii which would never happen after the events in that early morning tragedy. Lives were lost and changed forever. But was it all preventable? The family says absolutely, it was and is now suing Marion County, Oregon to hold them accountable.
Join us as we take a look at this case and how it might have been prevented from happening. Share your thoughts with us on social media or by email.
Happy Holidays, campers! Many well wishes of peace and happiness from our family to yours
Information from this episode:
https://www.weddle-funeral.com/obituaries/travis-richard-juetten
https://justicefortravis.com/
https://www.gofundme.com/f/jamilyns-recovery-fund
https://www.kptv.com/2022/08/11/unsolved-marion-county-murder-family-victim-still-seeking-answers/
https://www.koin.com/news/koin-6-unsolved/reward-offered-in-unsolved-killing-of-travis-juetten-06282022/
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11466427/Cops-probe-link-Idaho-murders-similar-Oregon-stabbing-couple-beds-year.html
https://heavy.com/news/travis-juetten/
https://ourtownlive.com/ourtown/?p=16613
https://www.salemreporter.com/2024/12/10/family-of-victim-in-2021-stabbing-files-wrongful-death-lawsuit-against-marion-county/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
What Happens in the Woods is a true crime podcast.
We discuss events that are often violent in nature. Listeners
discretion is advised. Welcome back for another new episode of
(00:34):
What Happens in the Woods. Thank you for joining us
around the campfire. Everybody's welcome, and we are glad that
you're here. We're getting busy getting ready for the holidays.
Of course they have price with me. Hello, Oh, I'm
feeling the crunch. Are you feeling the crunch?
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Yeah? Yeah, think everyone feels the crunch.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
Yeah. Yeah. I mean if you're like and you don't
have shit done, you're you're in good company because that's
us right now. I would say we're like fifty percent done.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Would you say, I think so.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Yeah, that's that's not bad. Yeah. And you know, every
year I say I'm going to do things early. I'm
going to be I'm going to be that person.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
I think we all do that. No.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
I think some people are just like, yeah, screw it,
and it happens how it happens. And then there are
those people who are truly able to get shit done
way ahead of time. They're thinking about it all year,
they're planning. Yeah, it's not me.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
That's not that's not us.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
No, do you have any updates?
Speaker 2 (01:45):
I do know?
Speaker 1 (01:46):
No, No, okay, all right. I did want to just
kind of mention I know people are having issues since
we switch to Spotify. It seems like things are not
available for like two three days afterwards, like people are
having a hard time finding the episodes, and I'm, I
(02:07):
We're sorry, Like it's I'm I'm obviously not the one
who knows what to do or how to deal with that,
but I can I can assure you that Bryce is
trying to figure it out.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
I think we had I had to refresh the RSS feed,
and I think we're good to go now. So if
you subscribe, thank you. You may you probably find it.
If not, we may have to send out reminders to resubscribe.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
So yeah, and I know it was your sister was
Elizabeth who said that she was able to like go
to the website and then be able to listen because
Spotify just was she couldn't find it. So if all
else fails, head to the website might be able to
(02:56):
to you know, like circumvent some some frustration there to
try to listen to it. So that's not really helpful
for anybody who can't find us to listen to us
say that. So I'm also going to kind of mention
it in the social media post just to head to
the website and hopefully it'll it'll just kind of directly
(03:19):
take you to where you need to go. So, yes,
we apologize. It's not intentional, I promise, and of course
it's just our luck. Yeah, but thank you for everybody
who's trying to find us and listen to us and
has been, you know, feeling the frustration of not being
(03:41):
able to get the episode. Like, I appreciate that you
are really trying to get our episodes and I want
you to listen, and I really really do we do,
so thank you.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
All Right, let's get into this case that I have
for you today. Are you ready?
Speaker 2 (03:59):
I'm ready.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
It's highly frustrating, Okay, And I would argue that this
murder could have been prevented. Really, yeah, I'm sure a
lot of people agree with me. Well, especially after hearing
some of the details. I'm I am sure that's going
to be the consensus. The events we will discuss take
(04:23):
place in a rural area of Marion County near Salem, Oregon.
We are discussing the crimes that occurred when a masked
intruder armed with a knife broke into the home of
Travis and Jamie Lynn Judyin in the early morning of
August thirteenth, twenty twenty one. So Travis and Jamie Lynn
(04:43):
met online and they just kind of instantly clicked. From
what I read, they were each other's first serious love,
like their first partners. Yeah, they'd only been married for
three years when our events play out, and it was
by a friend who was the best man at their wedding.
He was quoted as saying the two were so close
(05:06):
that he didn't even think of them as two separate people,
but as one. And I know that that just sounds
really cliche cliche, yes, but it truly seems to be
like this is the one genuine time when reading about them,
looking at them, I would believe that I would believe
(05:29):
that of them. After they married on February seventh, twenty eighteen,
they were able to move into the childhood home of
Travis's mom. So this was on a farm in Marion County, Oregon.
It's very isolated. It literally is at a four way
intersection and all you see is just fields, fields, farms.
(05:52):
You know, no residential and then there's their house that
they were living on in the corner, like on the
corner of the intersection, but everywhere going out in all
four points from that intersection was just farmland. Okay, So
(06:13):
they settled into married life. Jamie Lynn loved to create
pottery pieces, while Travis was considered a mastermind with like
strategy games, so board games, online games. The couple were
very into nature, hiking, traveling. They had been saving up
and were actually about to go on vacation. Travis was
(06:36):
really well traveled. He had been able to go to
countries and travel as a child with his family like
from a young age, so he had been to places
like the Caribbean, Belize, Hong Kong. But the one place
that he seemed to love the most that he had
traveled to was Hawaii, and in fact, they were preparing
(06:58):
to fly there for a two week vacation on the
day that everything changed for them. In the early morning
of August thirteenth, twenty twenty one. It was before at
three am, an intruder entered the home of Travis and
Jamie Lynn, armed with a knife. Wearing a mask to
cover their face. The intruder proceeded to their bedroom where
(07:22):
they were sleeping, and viciously attacked the couple. They of course,
were immediately awoken and Travis attempted to fight off the attacker,
trying to keep jamie Lyn safe. Jamie Lynn also tried
to help fight this attacker off. Unfortunately, Travis would be
so severely wounded after being stabbed multiple times that he
(07:43):
lost his life. Jamie Lynn probably would have suffered the
same fate had it not been for a friend who
was staying the night with them that was in the
next room. So after waking up hearing the screams and
the violence of the attack, they opened the bedroom door
and they said, like shouted out that they were calling
(08:05):
nine to one one, and so the attacker fled the
house and was you know, just gone in.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
The night, gone in the night. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Yeah. The friend had been staying with them to take
care of their cat for the two weeks that they
were going to be gone. It just happened to be.
It was just unusual. It would have just been them
at home normally, so on this night there just happened
to be another person there. So emergency services were called,
(08:38):
and of course we know that Travis was not a
survivor of this attack. He was declared deceased at the scene.
Jamie Lynn was taken to the hospital with life threatening
injuries and was stabilized. After surgery, it was discovered she
(08:59):
would need so more surgeries as well as like physical rehabilitation.
According to the GoFundMe that was started for her, quote,
she suffered nineteen stab wounds, a fractured skull, a fractured
shoulder blade, two fractured vertebrae, as well as nerve damage
to her face and her hand. Wow, it was intense.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Yeah, that sounds intense, like break a shoulder blade, two of.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
Them, Yeah, one shoulder blade too, fractured vertebrae.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
Oh wow, she got ragged all basically just manhandled them.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
Very violent, very violent. It was after this first surgery
and her being deemed stable that she was told of
the news of Travis not making it. She was able
to give very small detail of the attack to the investigators,
mainly the description of the man that she could only
(10:04):
quote say was extremely tall and bigger than average. It
happened so quickly and there was not really much time
to react or get a whole lot of you know,
remember a lot of the events they were fighting for
their lives. Yeah, but you know, the man was wearing
(10:25):
a mask, so they had no idea who this was.
The person that was staying with them, that was going
to be house sitting and cat sitting, not harmed in
any way. It's a little it's surprising. I guess she
(10:45):
would say that they had already murdered one person, they
had severely injured another and would have killed her. But
the second the door opened and the the friend that
was staying with them yelled that they were calling nine
to one one, he bounced. So it really confused investigators
(11:11):
why that happened.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
I don't know. Maybe he didn't whoever was attacking, maybe
scoped it out and just saw two, but then heard
a third voice and was like, oh.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
Oh, maybe it's quite possible. They really it wasn't anybody
that Jamie Lynn could say that they knew. It wasn't
anybody that the friend who was staying with them recognized.
And it sounds like they had a very tight, you know,
friend circle.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Yeah, so along with you know, not much of a description.
There was also it was found during the investigation nothing
was disturbed or taken. There was no sign of forced entry.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Yeah, and being on the.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Country I I don't see it mentioned anywhere, but I know,
you know, people just don't lock the doors, you know.
Investigators were able to single out some there was a
lot of blood flatter as you can imagine, and they
were able to single out some DNA from all of
the collection that was taken. They also were able to
(12:22):
get a couple of descriptions of a vehicle that was
seen driving on the country roads around the time of
this crime scene, like the crime happened, and around the
crime scene, so around the home. In the days and
months that followed, there seemed to be no answers. Jamie Lynn,
you know, went on and worked really hard on her recovery,
(12:45):
putting the pieces of her life back together as she could.
And Travis's family was just beside.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Themselves, yeah, because it wasn't that old.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
So he was twenty six at the time of his
murder and she was twenty four, very young. They were
just young people trying to find their way and you
live a good life, yea. Nearly a year after the
murder and the attack, the family of Travis advertised a
(13:19):
fifty thousand dollars reward for any information who might the
attacker be any leads regarding the crime. Local authorities were
very closed off about their investigation, even with the family.
Travis's mom was quoted in a media article that she
learned from the autopsy report that Travis had been stabbed
(13:41):
twenty nine times.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
Jesus.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
There was little else that was given to them due
to investigators wanting to keep a tight lip on the information,
and she, I believe even commented that there was information
that was redacted in the autopsy report that she got,
and they really just didn't seem to put any information out.
(14:07):
They were, you know, crime stoppers I believe, offered a
or twenty five hundred dollars reward for any information, but
they were very tight lipped on this investigation. And then
the University of Idaho murders occurred in November of twenty
twenty two, and the similarities to the crimes had investigators
(14:31):
and the media revisiting the murder of Travis Juden. And
when we come back from our break, we'll go over
why investigators link these crimes and ultimately what the outcome was.
In August of twenty twenty one, the murder of Travis
Juden and life threatening attack on his wife, Jamie Lynn
(14:51):
set the community on edge. The violence seemed random and
investigators had little to know leads at least that they'd divulge.
In an effort to garner any attention to the case,
a reward was offered for fifty thousand dollars in the
summer of twenty twenty two by the Juten family. There
was also a smaller reward offered by crime stoppers of
(15:12):
twenty five hundred. It was just a waiting game to
see what info, if any, would come in. And then
on November thirteenth, twenty twenty two, the nation was rocked
by the murder of four college students at the University
of Idaho. And this was everywhere. You couldn't go on
social media or news outlets without hearing or seeing information
(15:32):
about this for weeks, for months afterwards. I mean, it's
still very talked about the similarities of those murders, and
the attack on the Judens was widely discussed. It was
even considered plausible enough by investigators that they began to
look into the attacks. So some similarities between the cases.
(15:57):
There was a knife used, Noah, there was one attacker,
one loan attacker and male. There was an unknown motive.
At the time, they couldn't figure out why these attacks happened.
Nothing was missing, nothing was taken, there was no sexual assault. Seemingly,
there was no rhyme or reason to why these four
(16:20):
students were murdered. There was also other people in the
building at the time, so some people were left untouched,
and then it came out while investigators were kind of
piecing things, and of course, you know, the internet sluice
that there was a similar murder in twenty twenty where
(16:42):
the attacker also used a knife, was a lone male intruder,
and there didn't seem to be any rhyme or reason
to that crime either. Unfortunately, that crime is still unsolved.
The other thing that was is interesting now that you know,
(17:03):
looking back on it, it's just a wild coincidence. The
attack in twenty twenty was done. I believe that was
June thirteenth. Yeah, the attack on the Jutans was August thirteenth,
and the attack of the four students in University of
(17:26):
Iaho was November thirteenth.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
This did happened to be Fridays.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
I don't know that they happen to be Fridays, but
they were all the thirteenth. Yeah, huh, of course we
now know who the suspect is that was arrested and
has been charged with the murders of the four students.
That's Brian Coburger and he has since been charged with
four counts of first degree murder and first degree burglary.
(17:53):
He's facing trial in August of this upcoming year, so
twenty twenty five. Unfortunately for our he is not officially
linked to the murder of Travis Jutten or the attack
on Jamie Lynn. After reviewing, they found that he was
not connected. So who did this, who did this and why?
(18:16):
It wouldn't be until months later that the family learned
that there was a potential suspect on authorities radar, and
that the window of opportunity to investigate that person had closed.
The police encountered a man by the name of Cody M. Ray,
who had a history of mental health issues, drug use,
and criminal behavior, roughly a month after the murder of
(18:41):
Travis Juten. At the time of the attack, Cody Ray
was on probation for a crime he committed in February
of twenty twenty one, when he pointed a gun at
two people at a motel in Salem. He was charged
with menacing and the unlawful use of a weapon, and
he was sentenced to thirty jays in jail, one hundred
and twenty hours of community service, and three years of probation.
(19:06):
This was considered a lighter than normal sentence that would
allow Ray to undergo substance abuse treatment as well as
mental health help, and the conditions were that he abstained
from taking any drugs or alcohol while on probation. Something
to note about the probation was that it had a
condition of zero tolerance, which meant that they have any violation.
(19:28):
Any violation, whether it was a standard violation or you
know this specific one of abstaining away from drugs alcohol,
any violation would result in it being revoked immediately and
Ray would serve two years in prison. Oh aast forward
(19:49):
to the time of the murder, there were several instances
of violation of the terms of race probation, including driving
with the suspended license, use of alcohol, cocaine, as well
as methodphetamine and heroin. All of this was reported to
and noted by the parole officer that Ray had been
(20:09):
assigned to, and any or all of those reports should
have revoked the parole, but it did not really yeah.
It was documented that Ray asked for assistance from his
PO on August second, twenty twenty one, as he felt
he was in need of mental health help or medication.
(20:30):
On August sixth, just one week prior to the attack
on Travis and Jamie Lynn Juten, Cody Ray missed a
mental health evaluation that his PO had set up for him.
On August twenty eighth, authorities responded to a call at
Ray's family home regarding a domestic disturbance, so he asked
(20:53):
for help on the second He should have had an
evaluation on the sixth. Travis was murdered on the thirteenth
and on the twenty eighth. Ray reportedly at this time
had been missing for a couple of days and came
back to his home where his family lived, under the
influence of drugs and he was experiencing a mental health issue.
(21:18):
He seemed to be hallucinating, and he thought his father
was holding an ex girlfriend of his hostage, so he
forced his way into the room, taking the door completely
off its hinges, and busted into the room. Thankfully, the
authorities recalled relatively quickly. They responded he was taken into
(21:42):
custody at the time without incident. However, he was not
held really yeah, there was a scheduled court date to
rain Ray for October fifth, which he never attended. Sadly,
by that time he hit our already taken his life.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Oh oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
Now, Cody Ray would not be looked at as a
suspect until DNA results came back from blowed evidence taken
from the crime scene at the Jutans home. This was
late twenty twenty one to early twenty two, according to reports.
I couldn't get a definite date, but the family would
(22:25):
not learn about the possible connection until new investigators met
with them in April of twenty twenty two. Mind you,
at this point, he's already gone, He's killed himself. The
DA confirmed that due to the DNA evidence and the
fact that the vehicle description they received matched a car
that Ray had access to, as well as him being
(22:48):
a very tall and very heavy man sitting the description,
he would have been considered the main suspect of the
attack and charged with the crime. But yeah, yeah, and
it's I get here's where I get that the system
is been undated with these things, and it's unfortunate, and
(23:14):
I don't I don't have the answer. I mean, obviously
we all say, you know, a lot of different things
about police involvement or where do we put the money,
you know, But mental health doesn't, I feel, get the
attention that it deserves, and it does tend to lead
itself into addiction to things that help people cope with
(23:38):
the mental health crisis is that they're experiencing. And I
think that's his case. And he even asked for help,
and that does not exonerate him in any way, shape
or form of the crimes that he's committed. But he
was even asking for help, and it's unfortunate that he
couldn't get it. It's unfortunate that that that nobody put
(24:03):
it together. I don't know if he had gotten help,
would they have pinned him to this crime, you know,
this murderer. And the answer is that the family deserves
been out there, but also he would have been held
accountable for his crime but also received help. Oh yeah,
(24:24):
And that's where it's so frustrating. It's so frustrating.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
It is because I don't mean to be political, but
it's a lot of it's a huge topic out there,
like everyone talks about you know, we don't need this,
we need you know, mental health help. Yeah, it's talked
about often but never acted upon.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
Well, yeah, because they don't. I mean it's where do
you find the funding? Where's the Yeah, no, it is
and it is political, you know, unfortunately that that it's
a medical issue, that is a political issue, and as
I said, does not exonerate him from the crime that
he committed. That was horrible. What he did was horrible.
(25:07):
Taking a life and severely injuring another person not excusable.
You need to answer for that crime. And some would
say that he has. He's no longer with us, you know,
he ended his own life. And that's an opinion. But
it really just falls back to this family didn't get answers.
(25:29):
They didn't get timely answers, and they didn't The authorities
in this case really screwed the pooch, you know, not
to it's I say that jokingly, but it's not a joke.
You know, they really were left without answers, and the
people that they thought were trying to look for these answers,
(25:54):
that should have been the people that they could depend
upon to look at what was going on, failed Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
But these were during the dark times.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
I mean twenty twenty two.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
Twenty one, I'm sure there was a big backlog. Twenty two.
We're coming out of it and we're catching up with
a lot of things. Not to excuse it, I'm just
saying it may have been partial to all that.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
You're right, that's that's true. That is true, But it
could have been. Yeah, there's a lot going on during
that time.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
No, there was. I know the system was totally backed up.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
Yeah, yeah, And it's it. You know, we talk about
the system, we talk about what might have led up
to this and that and X, Y and Z. But
at the end of it, there's a person whose life
has been taken. Yeah, it was murdered. His wife is
you know, forever injured. You know, has worked hard to
(26:53):
get her life back, but missing her partner, and his
family is robbed of him. And you know, the ripple
effects of all of this is these are people, you know,
whether the system is broken or not, these are people.
(27:14):
So the Juden family has recently filed a lawsuit against
Marion County for three point four million, stating that authorities
fail to secure a potentially dangerous criminal and because of
their negligence. Travis Juten was murdered. Yeah, and that's that's
pretty fresh. That just happened at the beginning of December
(27:35):
of this year. So I'm sure that will play out
in the next few months and there'll be some some
news that's released on that. If there's any updates that
I come across, I'm sure we can update pretty interesting. Yeah.
(27:55):
I don't disagree with them though, No, all, I think
it's unfortunate that, you know, the conditions of parole were
were broken. You know, his parole condition was that he
abstained from any alcohol and drugs, he not be involved
(28:16):
in any other crime. He was pulled over in June
of twenty twenty one for driving on a suspended license.
That should have been it right there. Yeah, and then
he would have been in jail and this would have
not happened. So it's I think it's a logical train
of thought that there's some culpability there a little bit.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
Yeah. Yeah, it's just sad that he did ask for
help and got none.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
I don't know why you would. I guess that's the process,
and I can understand that's the process. And maybe it's
plowed to me if somebody came to me and said,
I'm experiencing a mental health crisis. Yeah, hallucinating. I did
just do some drugs. He did inform his parole officer
(29:06):
that he had used alcohol and drugs prior to this.
I maybe wouldn't have waited four days for an evaluation.
Then again, I don't know if this person that po's
hands were tied, you know, maybe that's the process. It
just seems it seems not the best option to take.
(29:31):
So I do want to request that there's a lot
of Reddit like subgroups that you can get on, of course,
and this is no exclusion to that. There is a
few postings in different places that I found, and it's
(29:53):
incredibly with not trying to sound and it's just shitty.
It's shitty the amount of people who are demanding information
from Jamie Lynn, who's a survivor, and from her family
(30:14):
and butting in and you know, playing out all these
scenarios of how it must have been somebody that she
knew that she was involved with, because they attacked him
first and killed him, and then it was a jealousy thing,
so she was attacked and all these just rampant rumors
(30:34):
and I can't speak to any of them. I don't know,
because the investigation has just been so closed. Yeah, there's
very little actual police information that's been released. It's that's
just not helpful, it's.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
Not But also that's what happens when people don't get
an answer, they make up, they come to their own conclusion. Yeah,
that's what happens.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
That just honestly, Yeah, I I you know, there's there's
a time and a place for opinions. But she's still
living this out.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
Oh yeah, it's not even closed.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
Yeah, it's it's not closed. And regardless of her relationship
with his family. There was a lot of discussion about that,
regardless of you know, his his parents, his family, you know,
their statements, and how she's not it doesn't matter, it
doesn't matter. She's a surviving victim of this horror story,
(31:33):
and nobody really deserves any more of that information. My
curiosity with this case was how somebody who was in
the system, who should have there should have been checks
and balances, how do they How does that not happen
and then they go on to do this. My fascination
(31:55):
was not with how she's living her life now and
what she's doing. It's none of my business. I wish
her well. I wish there the family well. I wish
all of them peace. I hope that they find some
you know, it's incredibly difficult to go into the holiday
season and and this is what you are reminded of.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
I was gonna say, it's reminding because they just had
that lawsuit, so now she had to relive it, right.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
Yeah, So we definitely wish them well. And and I
can't say that I blame them for the for the lawsuit,
for moving forward with that.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
Nope, I don't either. I don't know what I do.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
I don't know. I yeah, I don't think any of
us could say. I can only guess at how hard
it would be because you're not only recovering from the
loss of your your you know, your partner, your life made,
but you're recovering from your injuries yourself.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
Your TSD injuries or physical therapy or trauma.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
And and to know that there's no answer. So every
time it's you know, you you hope that there's an
answer or it's discussed somewhere you you know, it's just
it's just all right there, yea, without closure.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
Especially if you're in the same house.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
Oh yeah, yeah, So We're curious to know everybody's thoughts
on this one. It's it's definitely another case that makes
you think. You know, the the circumstances of how this
played out really make you think. And I am I
(33:48):
would love to know your thoughts, so let us know
on our social media. Email us, we would love to
hear it.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
Yeah, I just you.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
Know, want to close off. Thank you so much for
taking time of the busy holiday season to join us
for another case. It is less than a week until Christmas,
Kwanza and Hanukkah. When this episode drops tomorrow is the
start of Yule if you celebrate the winter solstice, and
(34:18):
we hope that no matter what you're celebrating, that you
are enjoying the season. We always are thankful for all
of the support that we get and we want to
send you wishes of peace and happiness. Yes so, and
to all of our listeners, thank you for all the support.
We just we are so thankful and we hope that
(34:40):
you guys have a great new year. And we are
going to resume episodes on January third, twenty twenty five,
so we will see you all in the new year.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
Yay.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
As always, you know the drill, be kind to one another,
and stay out of the damn woods. Bye guys, Bye
Speaker 2 (35:01):
Happy all days, Happy New Year,
What Happens in the Woods is a true crime podcast.
We discuss events that are often violent in nature. Listeners
discretion is advised. Welcome back for another new episode of
(00:34):
What Happens in the Woods. Thank you for joining us
around the campfire. Everybody's welcome, and we are glad that
you're here. We're getting busy getting ready for the holidays.
Of course they have price with me. Hello, Oh, I'm
feeling the crunch. Are you feeling the crunch?
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Yeah? Yeah, think everyone feels the crunch.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
Yeah. Yeah. I mean if you're like and you don't
have shit done, you're you're in good company because that's
us right now. I would say we're like fifty percent done.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Would you say, I think so.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Yeah, that's that's not bad. Yeah. And you know, every
year I say I'm going to do things early. I'm
going to be I'm going to be that person.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
I think we all do that. No.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
I think some people are just like, yeah, screw it,
and it happens how it happens. And then there are
those people who are truly able to get shit done
way ahead of time. They're thinking about it all year,
they're planning. Yeah, it's not me.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
That's not that's not us.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
No, do you have any updates?
Speaker 2 (01:45):
I do know?
Speaker 1 (01:46):
No, No, okay, all right. I did want to just
kind of mention I know people are having issues since
we switch to Spotify. It seems like things are not
available for like two three days afterwards, like people are
having a hard time finding the episodes, and I'm, I
(02:07):
We're sorry, Like it's I'm I'm obviously not the one
who knows what to do or how to deal with that,
but I can I can assure you that Bryce is
trying to figure it out.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
I think we had I had to refresh the RSS feed,
and I think we're good to go now. So if
you subscribe, thank you. You may you probably find it.
If not, we may have to send out reminders to resubscribe.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
So yeah, and I know it was your sister was
Elizabeth who said that she was able to like go
to the website and then be able to listen because
Spotify just was she couldn't find it. So if all
else fails, head to the website might be able to
(02:56):
to you know, like circumvent some some frustration there to
try to listen to it. So that's not really helpful
for anybody who can't find us to listen to us
say that. So I'm also going to kind of mention
it in the social media post just to head to
the website and hopefully it'll it'll just kind of directly
(03:19):
take you to where you need to go. So, yes,
we apologize. It's not intentional, I promise, and of course
it's just our luck. Yeah, but thank you for everybody
who's trying to find us and listen to us and
has been, you know, feeling the frustration of not being
(03:41):
able to get the episode. Like, I appreciate that you
are really trying to get our episodes and I want
you to listen, and I really really do we do,
so thank you.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
All Right, let's get into this case that I have
for you today. Are you ready?
Speaker 2 (03:59):
I'm ready.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
It's highly frustrating, Okay, And I would argue that this
murder could have been prevented. Really, yeah, I'm sure a
lot of people agree with me. Well, especially after hearing
some of the details. I'm I am sure that's going
to be the consensus. The events we will discuss take
(04:23):
place in a rural area of Marion County near Salem, Oregon.
We are discussing the crimes that occurred when a masked
intruder armed with a knife broke into the home of
Travis and Jamie Lynn Judyin in the early morning of
August thirteenth, twenty twenty one. So Travis and Jamie Lynn
(04:43):
met online and they just kind of instantly clicked. From
what I read, they were each other's first serious love,
like their first partners. Yeah, they'd only been married for
three years when our events play out, and it was
by a friend who was the best man at their wedding.
He was quoted as saying the two were so close
(05:06):
that he didn't even think of them as two separate people,
but as one. And I know that that just sounds
really cliche cliche, yes, but it truly seems to be
like this is the one genuine time when reading about them,
looking at them, I would believe that I would believe
(05:29):
that of them. After they married on February seventh, twenty eighteen,
they were able to move into the childhood home of
Travis's mom. So this was on a farm in Marion County, Oregon.
It's very isolated. It literally is at a four way
intersection and all you see is just fields, fields, farms.
(05:52):
You know, no residential and then there's their house that
they were living on in the corner, like on the
corner of the intersection, but everywhere going out in all
four points from that intersection was just farmland. Okay, So
(06:13):
they settled into married life. Jamie Lynn loved to create
pottery pieces, while Travis was considered a mastermind with like
strategy games, so board games, online games. The couple were
very into nature, hiking, traveling. They had been saving up
and were actually about to go on vacation. Travis was
(06:36):
really well traveled. He had been able to go to
countries and travel as a child with his family like
from a young age, so he had been to places
like the Caribbean, Belize, Hong Kong. But the one place
that he seemed to love the most that he had
traveled to was Hawaii, and in fact, they were preparing
(06:58):
to fly there for a two week vacation on the
day that everything changed for them. In the early morning
of August thirteenth, twenty twenty one. It was before at
three am, an intruder entered the home of Travis and
Jamie Lynn, armed with a knife. Wearing a mask to
cover their face. The intruder proceeded to their bedroom where
(07:22):
they were sleeping, and viciously attacked the couple. They of course,
were immediately awoken and Travis attempted to fight off the attacker,
trying to keep jamie Lyn safe. Jamie Lynn also tried
to help fight this attacker off. Unfortunately, Travis would be
so severely wounded after being stabbed multiple times that he
(07:43):
lost his life. Jamie Lynn probably would have suffered the
same fate had it not been for a friend who
was staying the night with them that was in the
next room. So after waking up hearing the screams and
the violence of the attack, they opened the bedroom door
and they said, like shouted out that they were calling
(08:05):
nine to one one, and so the attacker fled the
house and was you know, just gone in.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
The night, gone in the night. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Yeah. The friend had been staying with them to take
care of their cat for the two weeks that they
were going to be gone. It just happened to be.
It was just unusual. It would have just been them
at home normally, so on this night there just happened
to be another person there. So emergency services were called,
(08:38):
and of course we know that Travis was not a
survivor of this attack. He was declared deceased at the scene.
Jamie Lynn was taken to the hospital with life threatening
injuries and was stabilized. After surgery, it was discovered she
(08:59):
would need so more surgeries as well as like physical rehabilitation.
According to the GoFundMe that was started for her, quote,
she suffered nineteen stab wounds, a fractured skull, a fractured
shoulder blade, two fractured vertebrae, as well as nerve damage
to her face and her hand. Wow, it was intense.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Yeah, that sounds intense, like break a shoulder blade, two of.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
Them, Yeah, one shoulder blade too, fractured vertebrae.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
Oh wow, she got ragged all basically just manhandled them.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
Very violent, very violent. It was after this first surgery
and her being deemed stable that she was told of
the news of Travis not making it. She was able
to give very small detail of the attack to the investigators,
mainly the description of the man that she could only
(10:04):
quote say was extremely tall and bigger than average. It
happened so quickly and there was not really much time
to react or get a whole lot of you know,
remember a lot of the events they were fighting for
their lives. Yeah, but you know, the man was wearing
(10:25):
a mask, so they had no idea who this was.
The person that was staying with them, that was going
to be house sitting and cat sitting, not harmed in
any way. It's a little it's surprising. I guess she
(10:45):
would say that they had already murdered one person, they
had severely injured another and would have killed her. But
the second the door opened and the the friend that
was staying with them yelled that they were calling nine
to one one, he bounced. So it really confused investigators
(11:11):
why that happened.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
I don't know. Maybe he didn't whoever was attacking, maybe
scoped it out and just saw two, but then heard
a third voice and was like, oh.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
Oh, maybe it's quite possible. They really it wasn't anybody
that Jamie Lynn could say that they knew. It wasn't
anybody that the friend who was staying with them recognized.
And it sounds like they had a very tight, you know,
friend circle.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Yeah, so along with you know, not much of a description.
There was also it was found during the investigation nothing
was disturbed or taken. There was no sign of forced entry.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Yeah, and being on the.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Country I I don't see it mentioned anywhere, but I know,
you know, people just don't lock the doors, you know.
Investigators were able to single out some there was a
lot of blood flatter as you can imagine, and they
were able to single out some DNA from all of
the collection that was taken. They also were able to
(12:22):
get a couple of descriptions of a vehicle that was
seen driving on the country roads around the time of
this crime scene, like the crime happened, and around the
crime scene, so around the home. In the days and
months that followed, there seemed to be no answers. Jamie Lynn,
you know, went on and worked really hard on her recovery,
(12:45):
putting the pieces of her life back together as she could.
And Travis's family was just beside.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Themselves, yeah, because it wasn't that old.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
So he was twenty six at the time of his
murder and she was twenty four, very young. They were
just young people trying to find their way and you
live a good life, yea. Nearly a year after the
murder and the attack, the family of Travis advertised a
(13:19):
fifty thousand dollars reward for any information who might the
attacker be any leads regarding the crime. Local authorities were
very closed off about their investigation, even with the family.
Travis's mom was quoted in a media article that she
learned from the autopsy report that Travis had been stabbed
(13:41):
twenty nine times.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
Jesus.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
There was little else that was given to them due
to investigators wanting to keep a tight lip on the information,
and she, I believe even commented that there was information
that was redacted in the autopsy report that she got,
and they really just didn't seem to put any information out.
(14:07):
They were, you know, crime stoppers I believe, offered a
or twenty five hundred dollars reward for any information, but
they were very tight lipped on this investigation. And then
the University of Idaho murders occurred in November of twenty
twenty two, and the similarities to the crimes had investigators
(14:31):
and the media revisiting the murder of Travis Juden. And
when we come back from our break, we'll go over
why investigators link these crimes and ultimately what the outcome was.
In August of twenty twenty one, the murder of Travis
Juden and life threatening attack on his wife, Jamie Lynn
(14:51):
set the community on edge. The violence seemed random and
investigators had little to know leads at least that they'd divulge.
In an effort to garner any attention to the case,
a reward was offered for fifty thousand dollars in the
summer of twenty twenty two by the Juten family. There
was also a smaller reward offered by crime stoppers of
(15:12):
twenty five hundred. It was just a waiting game to
see what info, if any, would come in. And then
on November thirteenth, twenty twenty two, the nation was rocked
by the murder of four college students at the University
of Idaho. And this was everywhere. You couldn't go on
social media or news outlets without hearing or seeing information
(15:32):
about this for weeks, for months afterwards. I mean, it's
still very talked about the similarities of those murders, and
the attack on the Judens was widely discussed. It was
even considered plausible enough by investigators that they began to
look into the attacks. So some similarities between the cases.
(15:57):
There was a knife used, Noah, there was one attacker,
one loan attacker and male. There was an unknown motive.
At the time, they couldn't figure out why these attacks happened.
Nothing was missing, nothing was taken, there was no sexual assault. Seemingly,
there was no rhyme or reason to why these four
(16:20):
students were murdered. There was also other people in the
building at the time, so some people were left untouched,
and then it came out while investigators were kind of
piecing things, and of course, you know, the internet sluice
that there was a similar murder in twenty twenty where
(16:42):
the attacker also used a knife, was a lone male intruder,
and there didn't seem to be any rhyme or reason
to that crime either. Unfortunately, that crime is still unsolved.
The other thing that was is interesting now that you know,
(17:03):
looking back on it, it's just a wild coincidence. The
attack in twenty twenty was done. I believe that was
June thirteenth. Yeah, the attack on the Jutans was August thirteenth,
and the attack of the four students in University of
(17:26):
Iaho was November thirteenth.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
This did happened to be Fridays.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
I don't know that they happen to be Fridays, but
they were all the thirteenth. Yeah, huh, of course we
now know who the suspect is that was arrested and
has been charged with the murders of the four students.
That's Brian Coburger and he has since been charged with
four counts of first degree murder and first degree burglary.
(17:53):
He's facing trial in August of this upcoming year, so
twenty twenty five. Unfortunately for our he is not officially
linked to the murder of Travis Jutten or the attack
on Jamie Lynn. After reviewing, they found that he was
not connected. So who did this, who did this and why?
(18:16):
It wouldn't be until months later that the family learned
that there was a potential suspect on authorities radar, and
that the window of opportunity to investigate that person had closed.
The police encountered a man by the name of Cody M. Ray,
who had a history of mental health issues, drug use,
and criminal behavior, roughly a month after the murder of
(18:41):
Travis Juten. At the time of the attack, Cody Ray
was on probation for a crime he committed in February
of twenty twenty one, when he pointed a gun at
two people at a motel in Salem. He was charged
with menacing and the unlawful use of a weapon, and
he was sentenced to thirty jays in jail, one hundred
and twenty hours of community service, and three years of probation.
(19:06):
This was considered a lighter than normal sentence that would
allow Ray to undergo substance abuse treatment as well as
mental health help, and the conditions were that he abstained
from taking any drugs or alcohol while on probation. Something
to note about the probation was that it had a
condition of zero tolerance, which meant that they have any violation.
(19:28):
Any violation, whether it was a standard violation or you
know this specific one of abstaining away from drugs alcohol,
any violation would result in it being revoked immediately and
Ray would serve two years in prison. Oh aast forward
(19:49):
to the time of the murder, there were several instances
of violation of the terms of race probation, including driving
with the suspended license, use of alcohol, cocaine, as well
as methodphetamine and heroin. All of this was reported to
and noted by the parole officer that Ray had been
(20:09):
assigned to, and any or all of those reports should
have revoked the parole, but it did not really yeah.
It was documented that Ray asked for assistance from his
PO on August second, twenty twenty one, as he felt
he was in need of mental health help or medication.
(20:30):
On August sixth, just one week prior to the attack
on Travis and Jamie Lynn Juten, Cody Ray missed a
mental health evaluation that his PO had set up for him.
On August twenty eighth, authorities responded to a call at
Ray's family home regarding a domestic disturbance, so he asked
(20:53):
for help on the second He should have had an
evaluation on the sixth. Travis was murdered on the thirteenth
and on the twenty eighth. Ray reportedly at this time
had been missing for a couple of days and came
back to his home where his family lived, under the
influence of drugs and he was experiencing a mental health issue.
(21:18):
He seemed to be hallucinating, and he thought his father
was holding an ex girlfriend of his hostage, so he
forced his way into the room, taking the door completely
off its hinges, and busted into the room. Thankfully, the
authorities recalled relatively quickly. They responded he was taken into
(21:42):
custody at the time without incident. However, he was not
held really yeah, there was a scheduled court date to
rain Ray for October fifth, which he never attended. Sadly,
by that time he hit our already taken his life.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Oh oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
Now, Cody Ray would not be looked at as a
suspect until DNA results came back from blowed evidence taken
from the crime scene at the Jutans home. This was
late twenty twenty one to early twenty two, according to reports.
I couldn't get a definite date, but the family would
(22:25):
not learn about the possible connection until new investigators met
with them in April of twenty twenty two. Mind you,
at this point, he's already gone, He's killed himself. The
DA confirmed that due to the DNA evidence and the
fact that the vehicle description they received matched a car
that Ray had access to, as well as him being
(22:48):
a very tall and very heavy man sitting the description,
he would have been considered the main suspect of the
attack and charged with the crime. But yeah, yeah, and
it's I get here's where I get that the system
is been undated with these things, and it's unfortunate, and
(23:14):
I don't I don't have the answer. I mean, obviously
we all say, you know, a lot of different things
about police involvement or where do we put the money,
you know, But mental health doesn't, I feel, get the
attention that it deserves, and it does tend to lead
itself into addiction to things that help people cope with
(23:38):
the mental health crisis is that they're experiencing. And I
think that's his case. And he even asked for help,
and that does not exonerate him in any way, shape
or form of the crimes that he's committed. But he
was even asking for help, and it's unfortunate that he
couldn't get it. It's unfortunate that that that nobody put
(24:03):
it together. I don't know if he had gotten help,
would they have pinned him to this crime, you know,
this murderer. And the answer is that the family deserves
been out there, but also he would have been held
accountable for his crime but also received help. Oh yeah,
(24:24):
And that's where it's so frustrating. It's so frustrating.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
It is because I don't mean to be political, but
it's a lot of it's a huge topic out there,
like everyone talks about you know, we don't need this,
we need you know, mental health help. Yeah, it's talked
about often but never acted upon.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
Well, yeah, because they don't. I mean it's where do
you find the funding? Where's the Yeah, no, it is
and it is political, you know, unfortunately that that it's
a medical issue, that is a political issue, and as
I said, does not exonerate him from the crime that
he committed. That was horrible. What he did was horrible.
(25:07):
Taking a life and severely injuring another person not excusable.
You need to answer for that crime. And some would
say that he has. He's no longer with us, you know,
he ended his own life. And that's an opinion. But
it really just falls back to this family didn't get answers.
(25:29):
They didn't get timely answers, and they didn't The authorities
in this case really screwed the pooch, you know, not
to it's I say that jokingly, but it's not a joke.
You know, they really were left without answers, and the
people that they thought were trying to look for these answers,
(25:54):
that should have been the people that they could depend
upon to look at what was going on, failed Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
But these were during the dark times.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
I mean twenty twenty two.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
Twenty one, I'm sure there was a big backlog. Twenty two.
We're coming out of it and we're catching up with
a lot of things. Not to excuse it, I'm just
saying it may have been partial to all that.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
You're right, that's that's true. That is true, But it
could have been. Yeah, there's a lot going on during
that time.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
No, there was. I know the system was totally backed up.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
Yeah, yeah, And it's it. You know, we talk about
the system, we talk about what might have led up
to this and that and X, Y and Z. But
at the end of it, there's a person whose life
has been taken. Yeah, it was murdered. His wife is
you know, forever injured. You know, has worked hard to
(26:53):
get her life back, but missing her partner, and his
family is robbed of him. And you know, the ripple
effects of all of this is these are people, you know,
whether the system is broken or not, these are people.
(27:14):
So the Juden family has recently filed a lawsuit against
Marion County for three point four million, stating that authorities
fail to secure a potentially dangerous criminal and because of
their negligence. Travis Juten was murdered. Yeah, and that's that's
pretty fresh. That just happened at the beginning of December
(27:35):
of this year. So I'm sure that will play out
in the next few months and there'll be some some
news that's released on that. If there's any updates that
I come across, I'm sure we can update pretty interesting. Yeah.
(27:55):
I don't disagree with them though, No, all, I think
it's unfortunate that, you know, the conditions of parole were
were broken. You know, his parole condition was that he
abstained from any alcohol and drugs, he not be involved
(28:16):
in any other crime. He was pulled over in June
of twenty twenty one for driving on a suspended license.
That should have been it right there. Yeah, and then
he would have been in jail and this would have
not happened. So it's I think it's a logical train
of thought that there's some culpability there a little bit.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
Yeah. Yeah, it's just sad that he did ask for
help and got none.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
I don't know why you would. I guess that's the process,
and I can understand that's the process. And maybe it's
plowed to me if somebody came to me and said,
I'm experiencing a mental health crisis. Yeah, hallucinating. I did
just do some drugs. He did inform his parole officer
(29:06):
that he had used alcohol and drugs prior to this.
I maybe wouldn't have waited four days for an evaluation.
Then again, I don't know if this person that po's
hands were tied, you know, maybe that's the process. It
just seems it seems not the best option to take.
(29:31):
So I do want to request that there's a lot
of Reddit like subgroups that you can get on, of course,
and this is no exclusion to that. There is a
few postings in different places that I found, and it's
(29:53):
incredibly with not trying to sound and it's just shitty.
It's shitty the amount of people who are demanding information
from Jamie Lynn, who's a survivor, and from her family
(30:14):
and butting in and you know, playing out all these
scenarios of how it must have been somebody that she
knew that she was involved with, because they attacked him
first and killed him, and then it was a jealousy thing,
so she was attacked and all these just rampant rumors
(30:34):
and I can't speak to any of them. I don't know,
because the investigation has just been so closed. Yeah, there's
very little actual police information that's been released. It's that's
just not helpful, it's.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
Not But also that's what happens when people don't get
an answer, they make up, they come to their own conclusion. Yeah,
that's what happens.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
That just honestly, Yeah, I I you know, there's there's
a time and a place for opinions. But she's still
living this out.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
Oh yeah, it's not even closed.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
Yeah, it's it's not closed. And regardless of her relationship
with his family. There was a lot of discussion about that,
regardless of you know, his his parents, his family, you know,
their statements, and how she's not it doesn't matter, it
doesn't matter. She's a surviving victim of this horror story,
(31:33):
and nobody really deserves any more of that information. My
curiosity with this case was how somebody who was in
the system, who should have there should have been checks
and balances, how do they How does that not happen
and then they go on to do this. My fascination
(31:55):
was not with how she's living her life now and
what she's doing. It's none of my business. I wish
her well. I wish there the family well. I wish
all of them peace. I hope that they find some
you know, it's incredibly difficult to go into the holiday
season and and this is what you are reminded of.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
I was gonna say, it's reminding because they just had
that lawsuit, so now she had to relive it, right.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
Yeah, So we definitely wish them well. And and I
can't say that I blame them for the for the lawsuit,
for moving forward with that.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
Nope, I don't either. I don't know what I do.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
I don't know. I yeah, I don't think any of
us could say. I can only guess at how hard
it would be because you're not only recovering from the
loss of your your you know, your partner, your life made,
but you're recovering from your injuries yourself.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
Your TSD injuries or physical therapy or trauma.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
And and to know that there's no answer. So every
time it's you know, you you hope that there's an
answer or it's discussed somewhere you you know, it's just
it's just all right there, yea, without closure.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
Especially if you're in the same house.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
Oh yeah, yeah, So We're curious to know everybody's thoughts
on this one. It's it's definitely another case that makes
you think. You know, the the circumstances of how this
played out really make you think. And I am I
(33:48):
would love to know your thoughts, so let us know
on our social media. Email us, we would love to
hear it.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
Yeah, I just you.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
Know, want to close off. Thank you so much for
taking time of the busy holiday season to join us
for another case. It is less than a week until Christmas,
Kwanza and Hanukkah. When this episode drops tomorrow is the
start of Yule if you celebrate the winter solstice, and
(34:18):
we hope that no matter what you're celebrating, that you
are enjoying the season. We always are thankful for all
of the support that we get and we want to
send you wishes of peace and happiness. Yes so, and
to all of our listeners, thank you for all the support.
We just we are so thankful and we hope that
(34:40):
you guys have a great new year. And we are
going to resume episodes on January third, twenty twenty five,
so we will see you all in the new year.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
Yay.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
As always, you know the drill, be kind to one another,
and stay out of the damn woods. Bye guys, Bye
Speaker 2 (35:01):
Happy all days, Happy New Year,
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