The Hidden Gifts in Gratitude with Patrick Geary

Air Date - 28 November 2024

In this special Thanksgiving episode, Patrick Geary and Sandie explore the profound nature of gratitude, its transformative power, and how it can be a guiding force in navigating life’s challenges. Patrick shares his personal journey from a human rights lawyer to an intuitive astrologer and energy coach, emphasizing the role of gratitude in his transition. They discuss the importance of understanding family systems, managing anger, and finding compassion in leadership, especially during polarized times. The dialogue highlights how gratitude can shift perspectives, foster emotional well-being, and help us break free from the drama triangle of victimhood, perpetration, and rescue. In this conversation, Patrick explains:

• How gratitude shifts our energy from fighting against to flowing with.
• How we can apply the principles of gratitude to navigate the complexities of the current political and social climate in a constructive manner.
• How letting go of resistance through gratitude opens the door for positive change and transformation.
• How gratitude can help us move beyond the victim mentality.
• how gratitude can help move someone out of the “Drama Triangle” of victim, perpetrator, and rescuer roles.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:09):
Welcome to what is going on for New Thought from
the Edge of Arm. Each week on home Time's flagship
radio show, veteran broadcaster, author, and media consultant Sandy Sedgeber
conducts thought provoking interviews with inspirational authors, artists, musicians, scientists, speakers,
and filmmakers who are working at the point where spirituality

(00:32):
and science meet consciousness, at the very edge of Arm.
Here is your host, Sandy Sedgeber.

Speaker 2 (00:42):
Hello. As American families come together to celebrate one of
the most important days in their calendar. The words gratitude
and grateful will be heard many times, but true gratitude
is more than words. It's more than saying thank you
or I'm thankful for Gratitude is an action, a practice,
an emotion, and one of the most transformative and empowering

(01:05):
gifts we can give to others and to ourselves. One
person who really understands the meaning of gratitude and its
value as a daily, if not hourly practice, is Intuitive
astrologer and energy coach Patrick Geary, a former human rights
lawyer working for the United Nations. Patrick Geary's experience of

(01:26):
the transformative power of gratitude enabled him to change his
career to one that aligned with his primary purpose of
helping people find more joyful and fulfilling ways of life
in the universe that we call home. Patrick Geary, welcome, Oh,
thank you so much.

Speaker 3 (01:43):
And I don't think it's an understatement to say that
I'm very grateful to be here with you.

Speaker 2 (01:49):
So you made a radical and a very courageous change
in your career, pivoting from traveling the world as a
human rights lawyer to helping others find their truth and
teach and how we can all work with time and
space to create more joyful experiences of life. I want
to know what prompted that change, and how did glatitude

(02:10):
play into that.

Speaker 3 (02:13):
That's a wonderful question. And I think what prompted that
change for me was total systemic breakdown. It was this
realization that I just didn't feel happy with where I was,
and I wasn't happy with who I was and with

(02:36):
who I was being. So for me, it was thanks
to my body, which manifested all sorts of signs and symptoms,
from broken bones and headaches to dreams where I would
wake up choking or gastro intestinal discomfort in so many

(02:58):
ways that let me know that it was time to
make room for something new. And I had this period
of time back in twenty seventeen where I ended up
taking a summer out on medical eve from my job,

(03:19):
and that's what allowed for me to shift, taking the time,
taking the rest in being able to see that the
world wasn't working against me. I had sort of created
a system that felt like it was stopping me from
living the life I wanted to live. I had manifested

(03:41):
a boss who was totally absent, and then a bossip
of him who was engaging in a bullying relationship with me.
And as I took the time away to reflect, I
came to appreciate that these people weren't working against me,
that they were working looking for me, that they were

(04:03):
encouraging me to take ownership of my life, to stand
up for what I believed in, to move on to
something that did feel right. It really is, as you said,
It is that sense of gratitude, but being able to
go back into the system, which I did after that
summer off, but not with a perspective of I need

(04:26):
to fight this, I need to be different, or they
need to be different, just with a sense of listen,
we're all in it together. And so if this person
is behaving in this way towards me, it must somehow
be a gift, and let me give myself the distance
I need to see what that gift is.

Speaker 2 (04:51):
That's an incredibly courageous I think, you know, move to
have we can all have realization with a weak night
on them is another thing. And was it, you know,
was there one particular moment where there was like this
explode in our hall or was it just this you know,

(05:12):
slow understanding, you know, kind of blooming inside you.

Speaker 3 (05:17):
I'd say it was both. It was both, you know,
this overarching, slow growing understanding with several moments that just
felt like epiphanies that just allowed for me to suddenly
change my perspective and to see things differently and maybe
to start using some of the tools that I had
acquired and that I had learned over the past years

(05:41):
in my own life more actively. Thinking specifically about one
of my best friends who's an organizational psychologist who taught
me so much about group relations and systems, and one
of the premises of that work, as I understand it,
is that everything that happens in the group happens in
the interests of all and that people are nominated to

(06:02):
take specific roles and they step into that role and
then they behave in a certain way, and this is
in the interests of all of us. That it's sort
of the divine drama that's playing out around us. So
being able to go back into that environment with that
grounded sense of knowledge and I think it is peace
that allowed for me to really go back into that

(06:24):
space knowing that, Okay, this is happening for me and
everyone here is doing exactly what they're supposed to do.
That just changed it all. So that sense of rather
than this person is bullying me, what a jerk. I
don't want anything to do with them, to think that
person is doing such a good job being a bully,

(06:46):
and what I need right now is exactly that kind
of a bully. Thank you for choosing to play that role.
Thank you for agreeing to play that role, and especially
the role of a bully, because it's probably easy to
agree to play a role of a nurturing friend, you know,
that seems like something that any of us would love
to step into. But to have the courage to step

(07:07):
forward and play the role of the bully, just someone
being able to come into my environment and treat me
the way that I was treated. That's what helped me
stand up for myself.

Speaker 2 (07:18):
You know, it's interesting. I mean you're talking about, you know,
the whole family systems, which is what it is, you know, basically,
whether it's work or home or whatever. And to actually
understand that this is working for all of us. Some
people would say, Okay, I can see how it's working
for me, but I don't know how it's working for them,

(07:39):
and I resent the fact that they're not doing anything
about it. Well, how would you, you know, what do
you have to say about that?

Speaker 3 (07:48):
Well, I guess I'd say we're coming grateful. And the
reason I may say that is there's no room for
resentment when you're feeling great. There's no room for drama
when you're feeling grateful. You can't be in a state
of victimhood and feel like someone is doing something to

(08:09):
you or in any of those drama triangle roles the perpetrator,
the victim, the rescuer. None of those make sense when
we're grateful for all of the things that people are
doing around us. So if you're frustrated and resentful with
someone else, you're really just frustrated and resentful with yourself
or some part of you that you're judging and you're

(08:30):
not allowing to be expressed, and you're not appreciating it
for what it has to offer. And when you zoom
in on it and you focus on it, then it
comes closer to you and it becomes more present in
your environment, versus when you go into a state of gratitude,
you allow for it to move through.

Speaker 2 (08:52):
Gratitude, grateful, gratefulness. You know, these are words that have
lost a lot of meaning over the years. They're so
widely used they've almost become kind of tried. And the
way I see this coming back to gratitude for me,
the way I look at it is it's actually a
bit of a journey. You know, it's not going to

(09:15):
happen overnight. You've got to practice this, you know, it
is almost a spiritual journey that you're taking to really
dive into it, because you're going to get hit with
so many situations where you're not feeling very grateful when
it's hard to practice it, but it is a constant
working at Did you find it hard.

Speaker 3 (09:36):
At times? I? Did you know certainly I would have
emotional reactions or responses. You know, I might feel quashed
or disappointed or let down, or like something was horrifically
wrong and I needed to go out and fix it.
So it is really just like I guess I did

(09:57):
in a much grander sense with that summer, giving yourself
the reflective distance that you need to recognize that it's
all coming from you. And once you can appreciate that
it's all coming from you, and you're able to go
to that higher perspective and you're able to re emerge

(10:17):
into the world with gratitude. And I completely agree this
is it's maybe it's a lost start that we're rediscovering,
and it is something that takes time. It's a way
of being, It's a choice.

Speaker 2 (10:34):
Yeah, you have to unwind a number of perspectives and
perceptions in order to you know, take this as your perspective.
Right now in America and throughout the world, you know,
we're seeing that everything is increasingly polarized and with so
much anger, fear, and chaos and uncertainty. Instead of looking

(10:57):
at this as a negative, I know that you are
grateful for it, and I can imagine that you know,
there's a whole population that's very grateful for everything that's
going on, and another part of the population that isn't
tell us how you would speak to someone about gratitude

(11:17):
who is very angry about what has happened in the world.
What would you suggest to them.

Speaker 3 (11:25):
Well, my first thing would be to be grateful for
that person. I think anger comes from a sense of
things aren't right, and there's something here that's being suppressed
or repressed, and it needs to be expressed, and it
needs to be brought to the surface. And when I

(11:46):
see people who look at the world the same world
that I'm looking at are maybe actually a totally different world,
since we're all running parallel realities here, but in any case,
we are ostensibly looking at the same world. And they
see fear and they see things that they need to
fight against. I know that they're doing it with love

(12:08):
in their hearts. I know that the worry and the
concern and the anger is coming ultimately from a place
of love, and that everyone is doing the best that
they can. So the first thing for me, if I
were going to go into a conversation with somebody about that,
would be to bring myself into a state of gratitude.

(12:29):
And I do say, bring my stealth into a state
of gratitude. When I have experienced angry outbursts, it's not
always my first reaction. My first reaction might be to
pull myself away, or to feel wronged, or to want
to build an army to come back and defend me.
All of those things are okay. So for me, there's

(12:49):
the first step would be the choice to come into
gratitude and an appreciation for the anger and for the
fear and the concern and the worry that's present. And
for me, it's not so much a matter of suggesting
that there's another way that someone needs to be. It's
just allowing for myself to be the best version of

(13:13):
me that I can be in that moment, and allowing
for me to be grateful, and allowing for me to
feel free, and allowing for me to feel hope despite
what someone else may feel, and just showing that there
is another perspective and you can choose to or you

(13:34):
don't have to be And I'm not going to mirror
the anger.

Speaker 2 (13:40):
Yeah, you and I I had a conversation about gratitude
a week ago when we were talking about doing this show,
and you said some wonderful things that I've been thinking
about ever since. And you know, it's lovely to hear
somebody pointing the way to other points of view, because
we can get so locked entrenched in our own particular

(14:02):
thing that we can't see the wood for the trees.
One of the things that you talked about was the
fact that you're grateful for we're being able to see
now what people are thinking and feeling that was hidden before.
And once we know what people are feeling and thinking,

(14:22):
we can do something about it.

Speaker 3 (14:26):
That's exactly it. We're allowing for it to come into
our awareness, and once it's in our awareness and we
accept it, then we can make another choice. And I
know that it's confronting for people to hear that perspective sometimes,
that it can be confronting for someone to look at
me and you could make all sorts of assumptions about

(14:48):
my political alignments and who I voted for and what
my reaction would be to the election. You might even
be right. And nonetheless, for people to see me feeling
in a state of peace and gratitude for what's happening
when they feel like it's just so wrong, that can

(15:09):
be a deeply confronting experience. So I'm also aware that
as I show what I'm thinking and feeling, which I do,
truly feel that I have more permission to do. Now
I sort of feel like everything is out there, It's
all here. You know that we've all put our cards
on the table. You can see my cards now. You

(15:31):
might not like my cards, you might not like my perspective,
you might not like how I'm viewing things. And even
in that moment, much like when you talked about the
polarity that we experience, how can I be grateful for
the contrast? How can I be grateful for you giving
me a chance to connect more deeply with what my
values are, to more clearly appreciate what are the cards

(15:52):
that I'm holding, and to give me an invitation to
show them more proudly.

Speaker 2 (16:00):
Yeah, I mean you said that you have a number
of friends who felt a huge sense of relief and
freedom after the election because it enabled them to become
clearer about what was important to them, regardless of you know,
what they wanted, you know, the result to be. You know,

(16:20):
and we don't think about things like that. We kind
of knee jerk, don't we. And you know, my opinion,
my point of view, I have to kind of justify that,
hold on to it, defend it, and I have a
right to be angry. But it's interesting to think that
some people actually felt relief.

Speaker 3 (16:41):
It is I was so surprised as I shared my
own experience of this freedom and the sense of peace,
at how the vast majority of people who I talk to.
And it's interesting being an American abroad, since naturally people
were looking to me to express a certain tone around

(17:04):
what's happening with the country. I was really surprised by
how many people, truly the vast majority of people in
my immediate circle, which of course reflects me, shared that
same sentiment, that same feeling of all right, well let's
do it. And for me, if I think about the results,

(17:24):
you know, this is a vote for change, and this
is really a vote for you know, there's reason that
Shiva is a god Hindu mythology, the destroyer. They're ripping
things up, and I feel like the rule is now
that there are no rules. The rule is do whatever
you want and say whatever you want. And I'm actually

(17:46):
comfortable doing and saying whatever i want because I've done
a lot of work on myself and I really know,
I feel really emotional just talking about it, just how
much I love this place and I don't know all
that back anymore.

Speaker 2 (18:03):
Yeah, well you also, I mean, as an astrology, you know,
you have another kind of compass to look at I mean,
you've seen that this kind of upheaval, this change was predicted.
You know, it has been predicted, and so you can
look at it from a higher perspective than a lot

(18:23):
of people can. Yeah, godless, there's a lot of people
about that.

Speaker 3 (18:30):
It's definitely something that comes up, especially Pluto with its
transition into Aquarius this week and the Pluto return of
the United States, which just captures so much of what's happening,
the corruption and the decay within a system, the power
imbalance that's now all being turned on its head in

(18:51):
a very real way. And when I look at things
from this higher perspective, it also helps me feel really
grateful for the people who are playing their roles in
the system. And if I look at the man that
is Donald Trump, he doesn't look to me to be
someone who feels comfortable and happy and at peace and

(19:14):
at ease with himself. He looks to be someone who's
really taken on a very big role in a very
big burden and a very big responsibility in the collective.
What he's bringing to light, the anger that he's expressing
and running through his body, that has a real impact

(19:34):
on you. So I now feel like I look at
this person and I see somebody who deserves my compassion,
and someone who has given a voice to people who
didn't feel like they had a voice, someone who is
bringing things out into the open that were happening behind
closed doors for so many years, someone who is showing

(19:58):
all of the craw and the foundation of the American dream.
And I'm also aware no no matter what the election
results were, this was not someone who was going away.
This was someone who is hell bent on fulfilling his role.
So if I kind of imagine that I was in
central casting for who do we need to be world

(20:20):
leaders around this time? And we needed a world leader
who was going to rip apart the American dream that
doesn't work for anyone anymore in order for a new
dream to emerge. We have found the person to do this.
So I'm both grateful for the role that he's taken,
and also I just have so much compassion for him,

(20:41):
because my gosh, to live a day in his body
and his life it feels like the love is so
far away or so buried deep down under all of
the behaviors that we see it is.

Speaker 2 (20:57):
It is an interesting thult, I mean, and we have
to apply it to everything, really, and everyone that you
know here is a person just like me. It could
be me, you know, who maybe isn't qualified to do
a particular role, but there's a higher reason for them
being thrust into that situation. And you can attack me

(21:22):
from my personality and my characteristics that you don't like,
but that's not going to change the fact that I'm
here to do a job and the job has to
be done. I mean, when we look at it from
that point of view, it is easy, you know, to
have compassion. The challenge is getting people to look at
it from that point of view.

Speaker 3 (21:43):
Absolutely, and I think for me, it's a challenge that
exists when we decide we want to make another choice.
That initial discomfort of starting to look at things differently.
Once you've made the choice and you realize how much
more peaceful and loving it is to look at the
world that way, it's not hard anymore. It's actually much

(22:05):
harder to try to look at things the other way.
So it's just that initial change, that move out of
the drama triangle and that move into this higher perspective
and that greater appreciation. You know, the reward for that
is a feeling of well being. It feels so nice
to be in that state, and it feels good for you,

(22:28):
and you also notice the effects that it has on
other people, and you know that it's good for you,
so it's good for the world. So I think you're right.
It takes courage to make the change, and it's challenging,
and it is a practice. And also the rewards are
self evident. Much like any change you make to better
your well being, you're not going to want to go

(22:49):
back to the old way.

Speaker 2 (22:54):
And we're not I think, by nature, and we're certainly
not by culture, the kind you know, the kind of
people who have an awful lot of time to sit
and reflect and contemplate, you know, on looking at all
sides of a situation. You know, we tend to have
our own take on it, and we stick to that

(23:14):
and we don't look beyond it. And I think, you know,
with the way that technology is today and everything is
so fast and tension spans so short, it's hard for
people to find that time. But you know, right now,
I'm feeling grateful to you for giving me the opportunity
to think about this, really think about it, and you know,

(23:39):
modify some of my own thoughts and attitudes.

Speaker 3 (23:42):
Here well, I can only mirror your gratitude enjoin you
in it. As we are. We are connected, and truly
it is that sense of reflective distance that we take
sometimes from the world around it to remember our place
and our role. And I think this is what I found,

(24:04):
and a lot of the people I spoke with they'd
given themselves that distance. You know, this isn't the first
time that people have experienced an election season like this.
It's been going on for how long can I I
mean what twenty four years? I remember in two thousand
when George Bush was elected. I remember my response and

(24:26):
my reaction, and then the reelection. I was allowing myself
to be traumatized again and again and again by these elections,
and then here in the UK with Brexit, just one
after another. It was actually Brexit for me, that was
my own personal change point, my crisis point. I just
can't do this to myself anymore. My happiness is not

(24:46):
dependent on the results of an election, and what I
see in the world doesn't need to change just because
one candidate has one over the other. Both of those
energies are still very much there and present, and I
can be happy with either possibility. And I think that
maybe that is why gratitude allows for things to move forward,

(25:07):
because it's that knowing I can be happy with whatever
happens around me, and that means that things can continue
to happen versus when we go into that sort of
resistance and we say that things are wrong, then we
fight and we exhaust ourselves.

Speaker 2 (25:24):
Yeah, yeah, is that the Beatles song Let It Be?
You know, I am You talked earlier about this, this
drama triangle victim, perpetrator and rescuer, and you know we're
seeing this play play out all the time. We are
personally experienced in this. That's you know, various times throughout
our own lives. Do you have any personal examples of

(25:48):
how gratitude allowed you to shift out of those patterns?

Speaker 3 (25:54):
Hmmm, that is a fantastic question, and that when that
comes to my mind. Most was this long standing pattern
that I experienced many times of pushing myself out of
a job and creating a situation where I needed to

(26:15):
be the victim, and I needed to be the scapegoat,
and therefore I needed someone else to come in and
attack me and treat me poorly. And I did this
in so many different ways over the course of my career,
and there were so many people who stepped into that role.

(26:38):
And I think it wasn't just that moment of gratitude
I felt when I had that summer away and I
was able to see this pattern and able to see
the person who was in that role and what they
were doing for me. It was zooming out even a
level more and recognizing this isn't just this person. Why

(26:59):
is it that wherever I go, I seemed to create
a bully. I seemed to create somebody who doesn't respect
me and who's stepping on my toes. So it wasn't
just that one incident. It was that recognition of this
much deeper pattern, and then I got to be grateful
for the awareness that I was having. That then sort

(27:23):
of spread across time and space where I could now
see It's like that gratitude that took me out of
the drama triangle, not just in that one instance, but
across my whole life, both for the future because it
happened again, I went into another situation, this one I
recognized it much faster, I stopped it much sooner. I

(27:44):
came into a place of gratitude much earlier, thank you
to the practice that I had developed. But it wasn't
the end. So for me, it is that knowing that
it's always possible, that recognition that it's always me who's
creating it. And then once I know that, I can

(28:07):
move out of that space of something different needs to
be done here.

Speaker 2 (28:16):
And yeah, and it's still a challenge for many people
to even begin to contemplate that they could be the
cause of what is happening in their life. And you know,
we just don't like to look at ourselves very closely.
But I love you know you said at the beginning
about you know, gratitude. For me, it's something you said,

(28:39):
I can't recall the exact words, but we cannot be
angry when we're grateful or something like that. You know,
I've noticed that when we're in love, when we are excited,
when our energy is all you know, we are kind
of expanding with the joy of spring and being in
love and seeing ourselves through someone else's eyes et cetera,

(29:03):
et cetera. There is no time, no space for hatred
of any kind or any other emotion. It's all gratitude,
it's all joy, it's all excitement. And yet we fall
out of these spaces so easily.

Speaker 3 (29:21):
We sure do. And maybe gratitude is that pathway back
into that space, that recognition of Wait a second, I'm
not looking at my world with appreciation. I'm not looking
for the love. I'm looking away from the love. I'm

(29:45):
looking at all of the things that I think are
wrong and judging them. I think it's so funny how
we can look at our world, our world in the daytime,
and treat it that way. You know, I often compare
how we interpret our life to how we interpret our dreams.
And we know that our dreams, or we accept that
our dreams are just coming from us, right. No one

(30:07):
else is having the same dream as me. It's just
my dream. And then when you wake up and you
interpret your dream, you might talk about the emotions, you
might talk about what you saw, but you wouldn't say, hmm, well,
in that dream, I was going to Paris, and I
really should have been going to Milan, and I think
I left home too late. I should I should have

(30:27):
left that earlier. And why was I wearing that black
trench code in my dream instead of the brown trench code.
It just like we pick things apart. And it's so
strange to me that we do that in our lives
that rather than listening to them, rather than picking up
on them and seeing what the message is, we resist it.

(30:50):
We push it away, we say that it's wrong. We
enter into one of those rules either someone is attacking us,
or we are attacking them, or we need to save someone.
Because when you're in the drama triangle, you just continue
to change rules and perpetuity. So and that's that sense
that I often find, is that interpreting with a I

(31:15):
guess I could say a negative lens.

Speaker 2 (31:20):
Yeah, you know, I'm thinking that it would be wonderful.
There was there was a trend some time ago for
colored elastic bands that people would wear on their wrist
and if they had a crave in for a cigarette
or they were trying to remind themselves of something, they
would snap that band. I think they should be a
gratitude band on their wrists, so that every time we

(31:42):
are feeling poor me, pity me, I'm the victim or whatever.
We can see that and be reminded to have gratitude.

Speaker 3 (31:50):
In that moment.

Speaker 2 (31:51):
Absolutely, we could get very rich, very quick from that idea.

Speaker 3 (31:56):
I think so, I mean, it's so key.

Speaker 2 (32:01):
It is. It is. We're going to take a short
break now and think about that thought. You're listening to
what is going on? I'm Sandy Sedgbier and my guest
today is Intuitive astrology and energy coach Patrick Geary, and
we're discussing the meaning of true gratitude why it's the
way through all of our personal, political, and global drama triangles.

(32:22):
We'll be back with more from Patrick Geary in a
few moments. Stay tuned. Hello, I'm Sandy Sedgbier, host of
momm Times flagship radio show What is going On? And
as an author editor and Thirteen Times book judge who's
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(32:44):
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Speaker 2 (36:12):
Welcome back, Patrick Geary. You believe that gratitude is critical
in addressing social injustices. How do we navigate that?

Speaker 3 (36:24):
That is such a great question, and social injustice for
me was such a hot button topic for decades of
my life becoming a lawyer, becoming a human rights lawyer,
specifically looking at all of these things that happen in
the world and looking at them with anger, looking at

(36:50):
them at times with outrage, also looking at them with
pain and with hurt and with suffering, which can happen
when you bathe yourself and that knowledge and those experiences,
when you connect with people who have been through those things.

(37:13):
What really strikes me is that when we go through
times in our life that feel really, really difficult and
that feel so sticky and painful and just awful. And
I know that we've all had times in our lives

(37:35):
like that. We recognize later, I'd say, almost universally, how
meaningful and important that time in our life was. How
it introduced a change or a pivot that in some
way brought us closer to love, brought us closer to ourselves,

(37:58):
brought us closer to this wonderful place that we all share.
So when I look at things that are happening in
the world, rather than looking for the suffering or the pain,
or the anger or the fear, I look for the

(38:24):
way that these things bring us closer together. I look
for the way that these things bring us closer to ourselves.
Even with natural disasters, people after they've had these sorts
of experiences talk about how their neighbor, who maybe hated
them for decades, allowed them to move into their house

(38:48):
or invited them to move into their house after they
lost their own. They talk about the sense of being
alive that they feel when there's no running water and
when you're not sure where your next meal will come from.
How people show up and they bring you water, and
they bring you food, and they do what they can,
and there is that sudden remembering of how we really

(39:11):
are all in it together. And it's not that I
wish for wars or natural disasters to befall us. It's
just that I recognize that they're doing something, and maybe
when we all live in this state of love and
kindness and acceptance, those things won't be necessary anymore because

(39:35):
we won't need them to remind us.

Speaker 2 (39:40):
It's a good point. I mean, you know, we do
see this all the time, that humanity seems to be
at its best when it's the most threatened, when it's
in crisis. I mean, you know, we think about the
Blitz and you know how people were in England pulling together.
Same all over the world. You know, when things are
going wrong, people come together. I don't know why we

(40:03):
forget that so easily, and I can understand, you know
what you're saying about the change of perspective. Here, many
people when they see injustice, you know, they do get angry.
They want to fight, they want to change things. They
feel they have to do something. You know, you can't

(40:24):
just sit back and let it happen. But you suggest
that things like creating upheaval and marching you know, it
may not be the most effective approach. Some people would
argue with you about that and say, well, you know,
if you don't do something, then you're condoning, you're colluding.

Speaker 3 (40:48):
Yeah, And I would be grateful to those people. And
I'm grateful to people who go out in protest and
grateful to my former colleagues who are human rights and
who fight what they feel to be the good fight.
I understand it, and I appreciate it, and if it's happening,

(41:09):
then it has a role and it has a place
here for me. The question really is how do you
feel when you're doing that? And I know that for me,
I didn't feel well when I felt like I was
constantly fighting and that things would never be good enough

(41:30):
and no one would ever live up to these universal
standards that are human rights. They're beautiful, they're also there ideals.
They're not things that were ever perhaps meant to be
realized on a day to day basis across all of
our experiences. That is the ideal. And when I look
at is the ideal as a baseline and I'm constantly

(41:52):
fighting for that, then nothing is ever good enough. And
I know what that feels like. I know what it
felt like in my body. I know what it felt
like to be that. I've been around people who still
very much bring that energy forth. It's not nice to
feel angry, it's not nice to feel like things aren't
good enough. So it's not for me about don't go

(42:17):
and protest or don't go in march. It's just about
what are you bringing to the party? And if you're
going to go to a protest or you're going to
go to a march for a cause that you believe
in fantastic? Can you do it with love in your heart?
Can you do it from a place of peace? Can
you radiate that instead of radiating anger, instead of radiating

(42:38):
that something is wrong and that something isn't good enough?
Can you do it with acceptance? Can you do it
with gratitude?

Speaker 2 (42:50):
You've said that America's external measures of success such as
economic growth and power, do not align with internal will
be and that America needs to make a big change
to prioritize well being. You know we're talking about America,
but of course this supplies everywhere, every country, all of us.
You know, tell me more, what changes would you want

(43:13):
to say that prioritize will being? Apart from gratitude.

Speaker 3 (43:19):
Oh, I think that's such a brilliant question. And one
of the things, just maybe to give some background on
my perspective, is when I look at some of those
external metrics that we measure America by, whether it be
GDP that's the primary one that I think of, or

(43:39):
any of these economic metrics that we could consider, and
you look at America as enjoying tremendous success and prosperity,
and then the lived experience that I've had in America.
When I think about the government and the which I guess,
in some sense is a representation of the collective, it's

(44:03):
been paralyzed for twenty four years. It's been constant deadlock.
Very little has advanced through Congress or through presidential action.
Things that are done are undone. And yes, there have
been things that have moved, and I'm glad to recognize those,
But when I think about the system and the systems
allowing for a movement, the system has become more and

(44:26):
more rigid. Less and less movement has been allowed. Fewer
and fewer things have really been allowed to change, and
changes that have happened have then been picked away or
taken down. So the openness to change that I've seen
in America is very limited to what the whole message

(44:48):
of the country is, the message of the founding of
the country, which was all about being open to change,
about freedom, about doing something new. And granted, I want
to acknowledge this was not freedom for everyone was present.
It was largely freedom for privileged white men. And also
when we look at that vision and what does freedom

(45:10):
and openness mean now, it definitely doesn't look like where
the country has been for the past twenty four years.
It looks like it's just been in this state of polarization, deadlock,
battle fear, and excessive focus on the material. So it's

(45:35):
so disconnected, like the American dream as it was articulated,
is so disconnected from the real American dream of what
inspired the founding of this nation. So when I look
at that and I think about what do I wish
for America, I wish a return to this real sense

(45:56):
of freedom, you know, the symbols for America, the Statue
of liber you know, it is really a place. And
when you think about the context of Europe and what
was happening in Europe and what things were like in
Europe and how things were different in America, things were
really different. It was this pioneering, free, openness, exploratory culture,

(46:16):
and now it just feels like that's gone because people
are afraid and trying to hang on to everything that
they can. So when I think about it, it is
going back to openness and freedom and expanding it even more.
As you know, this dream was also built on top
of the land and built on top of the indigenous
communities who were also there, and that their dreams and

(46:39):
their wisdom and knowledge was forgotten, it was left behind,
it was unincorporated. So when I think about the things
that I wish, I think those would be the two
main things. Is that continuing spirit of openness and freedom
and that real kind of horse galloping off into the
sunset vibe that you can get. And then I also

(46:59):
think of out that deep reconnection with the roots about
the America that existed before the United States existed. Yes,
and that real profound sense of gratitude for the land
and for the peoples.

Speaker 2 (47:15):
Yes, you know, and as an astrologer you will appreciate this.
I remember that Linda Goodman, who was the astrologer of
the seventies and eighties, She once wrote that America was
conceived on a higher level. It was conceived as something
that would be a beacon for the world, you know,

(47:39):
a model of the way that we could all become,
all countries could become. And sadly, you know, it's moved
away from that. But let's move on to another topic.
Because after you and I spoke, you know, I kind
of created a bit of a summary of some of
the things that, you know, the really beautiful, wise things

(48:02):
that you had said, and the tips that you had
given about principles of gratitude, and I've got eight of
them and I'm going to recite them to you, and
I hope that you can remember what you said and
tell us again, because you know, this should be a charter.
It really should be a charter for gratitude. Number One,

(48:24):
let go of resistance. Say a few words about how
we can do that.

Speaker 3 (48:29):
Yeah, amen, I mean I think this is the I
guess the quantum truth that if you're arguing with your reality,
then there's no room to change it. If you're not
going to accept where you are, then how on earth
are you supposed to move forward? So for me, that
letting go of resistance it's relax.

Speaker 2 (48:54):
So Number two a doctor higher perspective.

Speaker 3 (49:00):
Yeah, so this is what we've been talking about with
astrology or another. One of the higher perspectives that I
love is imagining that you're going into the casting room
for your life and you are picking people to play
certain roles and those people are brilliantly performing their roles
exactly as you instructed them to in the world around you.

(49:23):
And I love that because it does immediately offer that
awareness of wait a second, this isn't happening to me.
I'm choosing this, So I accept where I am and
then I realize that I'm choosing it.

Speaker 2 (49:41):
Number three Cultivate empathy and compassion.

Speaker 3 (49:47):
Yeah, I think that really that's I love this list
and for me that that really deepens the connection that
we feel with other people. So that then go into
that role. For instance, so if we talk about Donald Trump, Okay,

(50:07):
he has agreed to play this role. I need him
to play this role. Thank you to him for playing
that role. What would it be like to play that role?
What is it like for him to play that role?
And how can I be supportive of his higher self?
How can I be supportive of his heart in ways
that help for him to fulfill the role he agreed

(50:31):
to play in the best way possible.

Speaker 2 (50:37):
Number four, focus on what you can control.

Speaker 3 (50:43):
Yeah, and that, I guess again brings us back to ourselves.
So if I use the Donald Trump example, so I
would feel comfortable sending Donald Trump a blessing. You know
what is the best outcome for America? The best outcome
for America for me is Donald Trump hits his head
and then suddenly his heart opens and he really feels

(51:05):
how the universe loves and supports him, and as a
result of that, he is able to be the best
version of himself. That would be just fantastic, better than
anything else I can imagine.

Speaker 2 (51:20):
Do you know? But prior to the twenty sixteen election,
my friend Alison Chester Lambert, another astrologer, had predicted that
Trump would get in and I said, oh deea, And
she said no, and she foresaw just what you said.
She said, he's going to step up. She said, this
is going to change him, she said, and he's going

(51:43):
to be the best version of himself. And it didn't happen,
so not that we're aware of. So it's interesting that
you have the same goal there and you.

Speaker 3 (51:56):
Know, yeah, well it hasn't happened.

Speaker 2 (51:58):
Yet it's interest the soul exactly.

Speaker 3 (52:02):
That's in his best interest and the best interests of
us all and again it's so possible. Anything is possible.
So once I find that compassion and I can send
him a blessing, then I can also know, all right, well,
I'm not Donald Trump, I'm not the president. I'm not
the one who is in this role. He is fulfilling

(52:22):
that role which I've asked him to do, and thank
you to him for doing it. And this is my role,
and my role is my life. It's the way that
I am. It's the way that I am all of
the time. So when I bring it back to me
and how I am, it's like that sense of if
I'm going to a protest, I can go to a
protest with peace in my heart or with love in

(52:45):
my heart instead of anger. I can't control whether other
people are angry. It's not up to me, and it's
if they're angry, it's important for them to be angry.
It's important for that anger to be expressed. And it
can then bring myself back to me of okay, well,
well how am I choosing to be? And I guess
there's also gratitude in that sense of how amazing is

(53:07):
it that we get to create our reality, that we
have the power to really choose how we want to be.
I mean, this is freedom, right, this is fantastic. Can
you imagine your life as somebody told you how you
had to feel? Oh that sounds terrible.

Speaker 2 (53:23):
Yeah, well number five seek common ground?

Speaker 3 (53:29):
Yeah, my gosh. I just love the way that these
are sort of bouncing back and forth too, that now
that we're sort of looking at ourselves, we're looking for
how can we meaningfully connect with other people? So where
the person who I am and who I choose to be?
Where do I intersect with you? And what do we share?

(53:50):
And what I notice is that things that we share
are essential parts of being human, like love. I remember
when we were talking before, you mentioned that sense of, well,
what would it be like if we just showed up
to a meeting and everyone brought pictures of their kids
or their nieces and their nephews. You suddenly see them

(54:12):
as human and I might see, you know, my boss
who I asked to bully me, If I see him
with his kids and I did, it changed my opinion,
Just that sense of oh, you really care about people,
and you really valued that, and there's a whole different
side to you that I'm not seeing, so that common

(54:36):
ground can really elevate us. I suppose there's also the
other choice. We can also commiserate. We can also see
common ground around complaints or around the anger that we
might share, and I understand how that can bring people together.
For me, as a conscious choice, I really want to
go with the love, and I really want to go

(54:57):
with what makes our hearts same. And it doesn't really
matter what your political allegiances are. I bet I can
tell you what makes your heart saying yeah.

Speaker 2 (55:09):
Yeah. We have three more in this list that was created,
and we only have got about five minutes left, so
we need to be a little bit quicker on how
we summarize them. Model the change you wish to see.

Speaker 3 (55:27):
Yeah, be the change. I think this is what we
talked about earlier, is that sense of just by embodying
my perspective and my way of being, then you can
see that you're also making a choice and that there
are other choices available to you.

Speaker 2 (55:47):
Number seven Protect your energy.

Speaker 3 (55:52):
Yeah, I think when it's necessary, this is that invitation
to take the reflective distance, like my body encourage me
to do, to take that time out to heal, to
look after myself, and to re establish my perspective, to
make room for the change before I bring it out
into the world. There are tender moments in that change

(56:15):
process and sometimes we need that safe space.

Speaker 2 (56:21):
Yeah. And number eight, trust the process.

Speaker 3 (56:26):
Absolutely, that knowing that it's all unfolding for your highest
good and for the highest good of everyone around you.
And in those moments where you feel despair or it
feels hopeless, just allowing yourself to surrender, just knowing that
even if you can't see it now, one day you will.

Speaker 2 (56:51):
Yeah. Yeah, And you say that great gratitude is an
incredible path to you know, gross to personal growth and expansion.

Speaker 3 (57:06):
It is, and it's a beautiful one and a gentle one.
That's something I really appreciate about gratitude.

Speaker 2 (57:14):
It's interesting because you know, people have always asked me
about the books that I love, and you know, I'm
very closely entangled with books with the shows that I do.
And I've always said that as I've aged, I've realized
that the ones the simplest are the most powerful and

(57:34):
the most transformative. You know, Don Miguel Ruiz is for
you know, for agreements things like that, and this little
list that I created from the things you said. It's
so simple that it's incredibly powerful. So I'm grateful to
you for that, forgivingness that.

Speaker 3 (57:56):
Well, I'm grateful for making rest on your.

Speaker 2 (57:58):
Website is your gratitude Creed.

Speaker 3 (58:03):
Oh, that's brilliant.

Speaker 2 (58:03):
It was so easy to take word, you know, and
minimize it.

Speaker 3 (58:08):
Well, I will absolutely take this list and I will
share it in my post next week, my Thanksgiving post.
So it's just such a pleasure. Yeah to you. Oh
oh my gosh, I'm just delighted. And yeah, I'm with you.
Gratitude is so simple. It's just such an easy choice

(58:30):
to make, and the more you make it, the more
you realize how nice it is.

Speaker 2 (58:37):
Yeah, Patrick Geary, thank you so much for joining us today.
This is really for me personally. It's been a wonderful
opportunity for me to really think about gratitude and appreciate
rather than just you know, it's just a word.

Speaker 3 (59:00):
Thank you amazing, Well, thank you, and answer, I'd say,
to feel it right.

Speaker 2 (59:04):
To feel it, yeah, to feel it absolutely, because you know,
your whole energy changes, doesn't it. Yeah, So I'm going
to leave everybody with one quote, a famous quote. I
cannot tell you who made the quote, but if you
want to find happiness, find gratitude, and I think that

(59:25):
sums it up. So thank you, Patrick, Thank you so
For more information about Patrick Geary's workshops, retreats, and his
private sessions, visit his website at truth takes time dot com.
And if you want to have a copy of this

(59:45):
gratitude creed that we've just created here, I'm sure you'll
find it on his website soon and you can also
follow him on some stack where he's going to post it.
So that's it for this week. I'm Sandy Saigbrier. I'll
be back at the same time next week with another
addition of what is going on to Then it's good
bye for me.