Where's My Sage?!! #104 Timothy Shaw

Join Mike and Kristie from Where's My Sage?!! A Taste of the Universe as they chat with the Rev. Tim Shaw. On this episode they will be chatting about the paranormal, bigfoot and the occult. Tim will be sharing some of he cleansing techniques. Listen in for some serious topics and some great laughs among friends.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Hey, hey guys. Um,so we've been talking for about the flash

(00:07):
five minutes and Mike just realized thatwe had gone live yet. So,
uh, this really has been theworst night of mine. I'm like,
where is everybody? Why haven't Ibeen picked on by anybody? What's going
on here? Is? How manypeople are on? And You're I'm like,

(00:27):
where's the number? Yeah, wellthat's exactly what I did. I'm
like, where's everybody? I'm ohmy god, I see Larson's here and
I hadn't been picked on yet,and I'm like, what's going on here?
Good evening tonight on where's my stage? A Taste of the Universe.
We are running late, and I'mprobably gonna have to do an intro intro

(00:49):
to the intro for Spotify, Speakerand iTunes. Good evening, mister Shaw,
and welcome to joining us this evening. You're my wonderful co host,
Christy Lendon. Now my others,what are you two psychic medium people with
your super gifts doing, because nowmy other computer monitors flashing it me stuff
is and working. It's all live, baby, It's what it is.

(01:14):
This is, this is this iswhat live is. Baby, It's all
live. Man, it doesn't getany better than that. You are the
expert when it comes to running thatcamera getting my bad so hey for my
good side. I don't know,they're both bad, you know. Oh
my god, we haven't seen acouple of weeks since we great do you
just go and you know, youknow this way it is. Come on

(01:36):
now, listen. You know whatwhen I when I was with there's nothing
worse than when I was with CBS. Guys, I was with CBS for
a few years, and we're goinglive in five hardcore markets, five hardcore
markets, right, we do twentyfive minutes with a guest Detroit that where

(01:59):
it was pipe through. The producerhad put on beautiful music. So we
had gone and we had done thisgreat interview, except nobody saw it.
So it's the way it is,you know. And I mean that's and
this guy, this guy was apro. This guy was a professional,
you know, you know, hewas a professional button pusher. So he

(02:22):
do it and you know, thesethings happened. But that's the fun of
being live, you know what Imean, I don't you know, And
I'm at that point now where youknow, leaven with my shows, I'm
like, oh, well, oh, well, you know the one time
we were I'm talking to the guestafter it and all of a sudden he
goes, hey, I think we'restill alive. So we must have talked
about five ten minutes. You know. Good thing I didn't. I didn't.

(02:43):
I didn't met bomb anybody. SoI mean it was pretty good,
you know, but but it washow are you? It's one of those
things, you know, live isfun and and it's all and you know
what, anybody, you know,everybody thinks this stuff is easy, and
you know it is up to apoint, but it falls down. It's

(03:04):
like just a rowan dominos, Iknow, and you know you just got
to go. They don't realize,you know, I mean like legit legitimately,
Mike. Well, I'm gonna justput this out here, literally the
issues we were having beforehand, youguys, Mike, legit had a hissy
fit desk. It's not if Iscreamed at it, because screaming always helps,

(03:30):
exactly, especially with electronics screaming.I think we were all muted.
Well, it's a good thing Ididn't get over to my bench that's to
my right that has all my knifestuff, because it probably would have been
a slut, you know, usingthe big big f h on the big
hammer on the listen. I've been, I've been. I've been known to
throw Mike once or twice. Iam not I mean hound on the desk,

(03:53):
but I am not freaking my becaseare killing me. I'm already like
you know, you know, partof it was I showed everybody in my
ears and we weren't even like,look at how right my ears are.
There's a lot of spirit activity tonightand I don't know why that, and
talking about like your I think thatwas a big thing before I see what
happened? Was it? What everybodymissed was was Christie was filling us in

(04:15):
about her her her holiday escapade andsome of the costumes and some of the
goings on that were happening. AndI have to say that when they when
Mike brought me on, all ofa sudden, I just heard something about
balloons and popping and people's backs andand at that point I was just like

(04:39):
la la, la, la lala. You know I didn't I didn't
want to, you know, Idon't you know, I didn't want to
get, you know, too deepinto you know, Christie's a Christie's a
pretty crazy lady, you know so, I mean, you know, I
wasn't quite sure what was going on, and I have this speaker for her.
You know, you're an ass.That was great, That is great.

(05:00):
I had the other back up didn'texist until the thirty seconds ago.
No, no, it's been golook it's at the bottom. That's not
always at the bottom. That's funny, right, this is not even Oh
oh, you know what I thought. I thought for a couple of minutes
there. I was gonna be like, you know, wait, what is

(05:20):
this? It is this like Mike'sonly fans. Wait a minute, hold
on, let me wait a minute, my oldest, let me scroll this
up a little bit more. Butthere's got to be something more on what's
going on here? No, everybody, listen. I went to a Halloween
party? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've heard. Is that? What

(05:43):
is that? What those you isthat what you crazy kids are calling that
stuff? Now? Halloween parties?Wow? Wow? I bet you guys
had some buking seeds too. Huh. I bet you guys did you will
suck lea me alone? Are you? They're picking at me? She's not
here, she's she's not in thehouse. I'm here left to my devices.

(06:10):
Oh god, no wonder, you'regonna kill me. All right,
so alright, let's let's start this. Welcome Now, where's my stage?
I tasted the universe, folks.I'm here with my co host, Christy
London and our wonderful guest, thewonderful Tim Shaw. Hi, everybody like

(06:32):
you share, subscribe, hit thebuttons, find us on your spot.
You know I got through? Okay, so that's done. We've had some
excitement lately and to night. Wehave a great guest. And there I
got serious for five minutes. Nowwe can turn the back on. So

(06:59):
oh no, he Carrie, Hey, comes coming back around here. Here
it's my other it's my other posse, all right out here? Um,

(07:19):
Nate, you have a request?Oh okay, Why why do I already
feel like it's gonna be about me? Why why can I just oh,
that's gonna request. That's a that'sa that's a quite the opening. I
just let you know. Okay,Tim, are you up for this?
It's a whole episode of picking onChristie. We were going to talk about

(07:42):
the occult why in London might bea good thing? Might good one?
Bring it? Just remember what Ican do, remember what I can do?
All right? I've seen you bothraise a table in the middle of
me get Michigan. These things happen. That's Kevin. Oh hey, hello,

(08:15):
Hello, somebody's to see you guysall on here. Thanks for joining
us. Everybody, as you say, we're just being ourselves and him of
fun. Of course Tim is oneof the best to egg on everything and
to join right in. So youguys have seen me serious, I can
bring too much candy to a set. Is that He's just That's what it

(08:35):
says. What's going on with that? So not just me. I'm not
going I'm not saying where I'm gonnabe nice. It's gonna be good.
All right, Enough about me,let's talk about you. Start nig It's

(08:56):
not me, it's you, allright, yeah, absolutely see it's never
Christy never never me. That's you, got that right and steal it?
Yes? Yes? So okay,So anytime film and anything, Oh you

(09:18):
just realized who that was? Yeahthat's our Tom. That's our Tom.
Yes, that's our buddy Tom.All rightbook message go take a look.
Not that I'm on Facebook anymore.I keep running from it. So whenever
we go to film well, Tim, you've been there, You've seen all
the crap we've rank there. Yougot so our page kids, all sour

(09:39):
candy, fun candy, whatever.So we're filming at one location not too
long ago. Oh and um,we're cleaning up after at the end of
the night, right, and there'sa ton of candy all over this table.
So Kat and I are just like, you know, trying to pack
stuff up. The guys are handlingthe equipment, and She's like, what
are we gonna do with this?I said, I didn't even really bring

(10:00):
most of it that night, SoI said, I have no idea.
I said, here, you knowwhat, this is all open, you
guys like that. I'll take thething that's not open. And it happened
to be like one of those biggerbags of the Chewy Spreeze. So like,
I'll just take this one thing.You guys get all the rest,
right. So what like a daylater, he's Tom asked in the group

(10:22):
chair, you know, hey,did anybody see the bag of Chewy Spreeze?
And I was like, well,yeah, I took, like you
can't everything else that was on thetable. He goes, are you kidding?
And I was like no, andI just happened to be eating them
at the sign said a picture.I was like, yeah, see,
don't put it off. He goes. Those are supposed to be for work.
They weren't even supposed to go intothe location to stay in the car.

(10:46):
Listen, listen, listen to throwon the catering table. It's it's
free, it's it's it's a freefor all. I don't care. I
was. I was finding the pilotdown and for you forget where the hell
I was. And so they hadall these reenactors and they had all these
people all dressed up, and theyhad a box. I mean, there's
big box of beef jerky. Itwas amazing, you know, this huge

(11:09):
box. And it was for someof the camera people and that because they'd
be working and they wouldn't take alunch because they'd be filming all over the
place, so they would take thisbeef jerky and that would be good enough
until supper. These guys ate everything. I am talking. It was gone.
One guy came back and there waslike a half a one laying on

(11:31):
the floor. That must somebody mustate half of it, and like missed
his pocket and dropped it on thefloor. He picked it up, and
I thought he was gonna cry becausethat was all that was left, you
know. And I was like,well, that's hey, it's a free
for all, baby. If itgoes on the catering table, it's you
know, it's it's open season season. In to my defense, we've had
those there for the group before,so I've heard that. Mike Christie,

(12:01):
oh boy, oh we got alot of stuff about Christy, but we
won't talk about that. Oh yeah, oh um, that goes both ways.
My friends. Oh there's Christie Christie. I'm an open book. These
people, these people, everybody knowsmy everybody knows my deep dark secrets.
There's there's there's there's like there's noveil between me and anybody else. So

(12:33):
actually, Kevin, Kevin says thethirty dollars, I think that was the
night. I think that was thenight I'm talking about. I think that
was yeah, because that we hadlike a huge, huge vagasar bitch,
like one of those big like youknow, and then we had one of
the family sizes. Yeah, ohyeah, it was. It was crazy.
Remind me not to bring any ofmy stuff when we're filming. No,

(12:56):
I have my own stuff. I'llstuff my own pockets. Don't worry
about what the hell. I wouldn'teven get a chip by the time I
get to a catering table, it'sgone, right. That's why I bring
extra gummy bears with me everywhere,because you know, I don't eat those,
the gummy. Yeah, you bringanything gummy, I won't touch it.
No, No, I am tryingto eat Hawaiian punch ones. They're

(13:20):
a little they're like the I don'teat it. I have to get as
I don't eat any of that.I really don't. I don't need anything
of that nature anymore. When acouple of years ago, Yeah, but
not anymore. Yeah, it's justyou know, I eat boring stuff.
I eat old man stuff, Granolabar, power bar, you know,

(13:41):
you know, maybe maybe some darkchocolate in my pocket, so long as
it doesn't melt, you know,because christ walked by. It gets hot,
you know, and it melts inmy pocket as she walks by.
So you know, that's that's that'swhat you know. I'm pretty good,
like I'm pretty well, you know, self contained when I when I hang
out and come out, you know, Yeah, but I can't jerky.
Yeah, I'll tell you what.Yeah, that yeah. You know,

(14:01):
it's just funny because you go andyou eat that some of that stuff and
then you get all sugared up,and then it's like you're bouncing off the
wall. And the problem with meis the more sugar I sugared up,
I am the quicker I talk.So it's like, you know, can
we do that? Take a littlebit slower shirt, So it's like show
down, you know, And that'sthat's the problem. It's like it's you

(14:26):
know, I can. I candrink like twelve cups of coffee. It
doesn't bother me. You have,I can a handful of those sour patches.
Or it's just like whoa, let'sgo baby, what's wrong with you?
Guys? Come back? Get thatcamera, Go and get the camera.
Pull that camera. What's wrong withyou? Can't you get that camera?
Pull that cable. There's only onehundred and twenty five feet of cable.
Come on, let's get it inand plug it in the truck.
Come on, let's go all that'sthat's what happened when we're on the road

(14:48):
and we're shooting, you know,Oh my gosh, come on, I
gotta get back to the hotel.I gotta sleep I gotta sleep. Yeah,
like I'm gonna sleep. You know, I'll be in the lobby,
walking, talking to myself for anhour. You know. Well, yeah,
with the kind of luck you havewith your flights, man, you're
either in a lobby or an airport. Yeah, that's and that's the truth.
That's the truth too. I stillgot one more to do this year,

(15:11):
and I'm I'm flying into into Detroit, So I'm not too worried about
it because I don't care about well. Yeah, I do have to care
about it because I have to makewell Detroit, but I have to make
at home because I'm filming on theday after. Oh, I've got to
I've gotta That's what I mean.That's what I was trying. I told
you before when I was pulling myhair out trying to fill out this contract

(15:33):
yes online. So it's like,you know, it's like I have to
be there for this one. Igot them choice, so I gotta I
gotta make sure that I'm there.I'd like to be there like the day
be you know, to be homethe day before so I can like comb
my hair and you know, getmyself almost presentable, you know. You
know, but it's like I gota feeling I felt the last, the

(15:56):
last, the last out of stateor for the year. I can almost
and I can almost assure myself thatI will be arriving at the gate at
to leave for like I would say, probably nine o'clock, and I know
that I won't get home till probablylike eight or nine o'clock at night.
The way they yeah, the waythey were overbooking the flights and everything.

(16:17):
So at least you guys are closeto a major airport. So yeah,
yeah, that's the one game anddrive in three hours. So the next
place you gotta go, Well,I've done that too. I've done that.
Rented where you had We've had torent a car and then we had
to drive four hours so that wecould get a connection out and around.

(16:40):
Yeah, that was a tough onebecause we got stuck. And what it
was was all the flight crew wasthe last flight of the night, and
the flight crew had already logged inso many hours. But we could catch
we could catch I think it waslike three o'clock in the morning. We
could catch a flight to Newark toget home. And so we actually we've

(17:00):
we drove actually to Newark so thatwe could catch that. Yeah, there
was a bunch of you that wasn'tthere. There was twelve of us for
that one. And the joke was, if if this plane goes down,
all the all the paranormal world wasgone. That's it. Everybody's gone.

(17:21):
Everybody's gone. No more TV shows, everybody's gone. Everybody. The producers
are stuck on there, you know, all these all these all these different
people from different shows, and we'reall just sitting there, gone, Oh
my god, what crazy they're They'reall like this, Hey, tim,
do you know how to drive agospel bus? Like? You know what

(17:42):
I mean. We rented a twelvepassenger. We had to rent a twelve
passenger and we loaded eighteen people onit with all the luggage and everything.
And that's what we had, peoplesitting on each other and and and the
luggage was all over and you say, my stories or whatever not going there.

(18:04):
All. I got to say,by the time we got there,
this group was very punchy. Ofcourse it didn't. It didn't hurt that
like there was some kind of libaciousliquid that was being passed around. Oh
see, and there's no she's justlittle you passed around mine, you know.
You know sometimes well, miss Christy, you know you don't need that

(18:26):
stuff. Well I never did becauseI'm not really drinker anyway, So you
know you're you're just like high onlife, right, Mike. I try
to be right, Mike. Yep. Yeah, it's it's an animal friendly
show around here. And hey,that's all right. You like the girls.
I know where's Winnie Winnie on LittleWinnie was just here. She was
just went upstairs, she goes onboard. Already we already, dude,

(18:55):
Wow, here comes Mike. Herecomes Mike trying to rescue the show.
Yes, okay, I'm not goingto rescue that. There's no rescue in
this show tonight. I see whowe have in the audience, you know,
you know, and please, likesir, subscribe, guys get out
there, like I always have todo that stuff. But you know,
between the big Foot crew and theair we have on this show, we

(19:18):
have the Ballbusters here. Listen,we got we got the Behind the Shadows
crew here. It doesn't we gotwe got you know, we got Joe,
we got Matt, you know,we got time, and we get
Meat, Kevin and absolutely a coupleother folks that are here. Oh he's
too late. Yeah, yeah,it really I I am having the worst.

(19:40):
Oh Carrie's here, you know whatI mean, it's just uh in
collect. I mean, she's comingin here in the middle of the night.
She's gonna have nightmares listening to ustonight. Um. Well, so
I think get into these shows.How long? How long was it that
you got into the show? Uh? Trying to think. First, the

(20:02):
first show I did was the firstnetwork show. It was probably eighties,
like eighty eight, eighty seven,something like that, and we, uh,
because we had gotten Uh. Iwas working with CBS and I was
working with the old Pair of Actshow. So we were doing some real
simulcasting the CBS show, and thenwe were I was doing another show and
I got picked up by an agentwho sold me to a to a production

(20:27):
company and uh we that's when wedid. I did my very first pilot
that didn't go anywhere, thank god, because it was really bad. But
it hooked me into, like,you know, the little bits that I
do on on the different shows,And I think, I can't remember the
first I'll be honest with you,I can't. I remember, like uh,

(20:48):
ghost Lab we did on the oldDiscovery that was that's going back a
ways but I had done a fewthings even before that, and I have
I'd have to look at what Iyou know, all what I do,
and you know, yeah, youknow, you know what when you get
to when you get to be myage, you're like, yeah, whatever,
what did I do last week?You know that carrots five minutes ago

(21:10):
before you kid? Yeah, youknow, I mean that's what that basically
ambitious. Believe me this this hasbeen an amazing week here. But uh,
I was lucky because I got wordof mouth and and that's basically you
know a lot of people. Ijust had this conversation with somebody today and
they wanted to be on TV,and they're going, how did you do
it? How did you get on? You get on all these shows?

(21:33):
You do this? You do that? Well, let's see, I heard
myself out for about oh fifteen years, And by that, I mean I
did all the cons and I didall the barn storming, and I did
all the little shows, the bigshows. Uh, you know, I
had um I was doing my podcastconstantly, you know, I was interviewing
everybody and I start That's that's howI started. I mean, and I

(21:57):
was doing location work for like ParanormalState, and I was doing all this
other stuff along the way, andit just you know, everybody is kind
of interconnected. It's kind of Ihave to tell you that the paranormal shows
is are a little bit incestuous inthe background because of the fact that everybody
knows everybody. And this recent onethat I'm work I will be working on

(22:18):
that I'll be interviewed for interviewed forthree hours for like all twelve point six
minutes if I'm walking maybe five.I was suggested because of the location number
one and number two. I hadworked with this producer who had known another

(22:41):
producer who gave me high marks fromPortals to Hell from the from the last
shows I did. And this producerhad worked with the production company with Portals
to Hell and then a couple otherlike regional things that I did, and
that's why that's how they brought mein. So that's how you do it.
I mean, it's a lot ofnetworking. It's a lot of uh,
you know, the days of likelet's put a team together and put

(23:03):
it on YouTube are kind of over. You know, what they're looking for
now is uh you know, they'rethey're looking for people that they know,
Uh, they don't have to goand they don't have to coach. They're
looking that's what they're looking for.They're looking for, uh people that season
they can yeah, they can relyon you know that season that just smells
season. Yeah, you know Ithere you go with. Christie's done.

(23:30):
Christie started laughing. She's done.Mike, Oh, yeah, she's not.
She's gonna have the giggles the restof the show. She's not gonna
you know that, Christy, Justtry to keep up, baby, come
on. Following following Italian, Ohno, I think I can. I

(23:51):
can. I can't mute her becauseshe has the other set of controls on
the other side. Oh my god, that's I'm going to see a snot
babble. I definitely think so.I think listen, I think there is.
I think it's supernatural. I'm good. If you close, if you
take a picture and take a closeup, I bet you it's got a

(24:12):
little face in that little snot babble. We could make that happen. Now
that's a close up, mister Demill. That was quite the close up.
Remember, revenge is a bitch,my friend. I mean, I can
scare everybody. I mean Halloween,we did the Halloween Show last week.

(24:33):
I mean, you can still scarepeople. We still have the ability to
scare people. Listen, new Troublemakerover there, Matthew, you just do
you just culm yourself down over there. Instigator Mom, you just didn't know

(24:55):
what your your your cast is doingaround here. And these mentors there's gonna
be listen, there's the there,there's no riving reason. I don't know
how you're going to rescue this one. This is a good que Oh no,
this is gonna be the best oneever. Um. Yeah, it's
like when we had Yeah, Iwas just kind of asking there for the

(25:17):
for you know, for the bigfoot folks that really, you know,
are kind of starting to follow alot of the paranormal stuff, and you
know it would see you on stuffwith you know, the mainstream stuff that
keeps popping up lately. And I'mjust dropping things everywhere today. Um,
I think that's you and not me. I thought the dogs are coming through
the wall or something. Um sowith her snot bubble kind of gets me

(25:41):
thinking. You know, you wewere going to talk about doing some of
the occult and some of that stuff. Have you sat through like some of
the uh, how do we sayextracisms or that kind of thing, and
and seeing those kind of snot bubblesor the peace suit stuff, is that
real or not? You know,that's there's such bullshit out there, you

(26:04):
know, and there's a lot ofpeople that claim a lot of stuff.
And I've i've assisted, I've workedwith, you know, and i've i've
i've i've you know, reviewed casesand stuff for different people. My friends
are exorcists, you know. Ido have some legitimate ones, unlike these
travelers. These some of these localpeople I won't even go into that just
kind of float around and you know, they have absolutely no training. These

(26:30):
are people that are that are churchtrained, either Vatican trained, dioces trained,
or whatever they're whatever their religious organizationis where they've actually taken this training.
And uh yeah, there's it's it'sit can be terrifying. I'm not
gonna lie. I mean, youcan get you get the crazy smells,
you get the voice, the voiceis crazy, but their eyes don't turn
black, you know, that's allthat's Hollywood. I have yet to have

(26:51):
anybody throw up on me. Youknow, I did have somebody I had,
I did have somebody push me off. I mean we're holding this person
down. There's two big guys onthis are all in cheap like fourteen or
fifteen that and just pushed us robustright into the wall. You know.
So that could be an adrenaline rusheror whatever, but it was. It's
still kind of shocking. So yeah, I've I've worked with you know.
I I've been lucky because years ago, many many many many years ago,

(27:15):
I ran into John's affas and uh, you know, and Johnny and I
have been friends ever since. AndI swear to God, once you get
the blessing of the Godfather the paranormal, I mean, you get some legitimacy
and people will work with you andthrough him because he's a demonologist. He

(27:36):
says he isn't, but he's probablyone of the leaders in the pack here.
Through him, I got a chanceto work with some really great people.
He introduced me to some really unbelievablepeople over the years, and uh,
you know, I I've taken I'vetaken that training pretty seriously. And
what these people have have have said, And of course, I mean this

(27:56):
is a guy that you know,I mean, he's he he knew Father
Malachi Martin, you know, andMalachi was a was an unbelievable He was
an exorcist, and he wrote Costageto the Devil. If anybody is even
remotely interested in exorcists, Uh,that's the book. That's the book to
get all the other ones pale incomparison. Uh. It's a long winded

(28:17):
book, but it goes into detail. And it's not his cases, it's
other cases. And you learn fromthat book what to expect the people that
they need to go and uh,you know how you have to act and
work. So yeah, it's Imean I've always I've been blessed with it.
And then of course, I meanwith me, you know, me
just being me, I get achance to really hang out with some pretty
cool people. I mean, uh, I was at you know, I

(28:41):
was hanging out at a Yule festival. Oh imagine that me at a Yule
festival, you know. Uh,and I ran into uh which doctor two
from from Canada, and uh,I mean he's big, you know,
I mean he's he's he learned underpreachless Miriam of the ram Street, New
Orleans Voodoo Shrine, and uh,you know, I mean he's he is

(29:04):
really well rounded. And through him, I got a chance to meet some
other people, and then I startedI met like different people that are sent
Uria, and so I've been really, you know, I've been, you
know, literally it feels like Ifell into like all these little slots where
I get a chance to work withpeople. But then again, I mean
I put a lot of time ineffort, and a lot of people don't
realize that I've I've been doing thissince I was a kid, Like in

(29:26):
nineteen seventy two is when I firstdid I see him, you know,
so you know that's our Sunday schooland that's you know, I probably did
my first seance when I was aboutnine or ten years old, and probably
did my first rescue circle, whichis like modern ghost hunting clensic, probably
about fourteen maybe fifteen years old.So I've been knocking around a long time
doing this. I've always had aninterest in it, and I'm not afraid

(29:48):
to go out there and find whatI need to grow with, what I
need to accomplish, what I needto whatever look for. And one of
those people that has to stop,and uh, you know, it's got
to be my attention span, becauseI have to stop, and I have
to if I see something that's likeshina have to stop and go and look

(30:08):
at it. And I'm not trainedunder Tom Brown Junior up at the Omega
Institute ran back New York, whichwas earth shattering. That's the only way
I can say that that whole thewhole course of study was earth shattering.
And through him I got a chanceto learn a lot of Native American different
techniques. But I got a chanceto really push myself further where I was

(30:29):
able to go and and really seeahead and do you know, and then
see behind and and do a lotof we're doing a lot of blind stuff,
you know. Where we were allyou know, we couldn't see.
And it was basically had to walkthe length of a football field, stop
and then go into a building untilthey stopped you inside the building. And
out of like one hundred sixty onehundred forty one hundred forty one hundred and

(30:52):
sixty people, uh, there wasonly like seven, it's like six seven
of us that actually made it insidethe building. And that was all projected
yourself forward, how to how togo and project yourself to look for sacred
items and sacred objects. So Imean I was I've got to I've always
had the interest in it, andit's pushed me in so many different directions
that I got a you know,I shouldn't say a well rounded education,

(31:15):
because if you talk to some ofmy spiritualist friends, they're like, you
are blasphemous, you know, Andbecause I don't believe in a lot of
the pablem that they that they teachme. You know, I'm not a
big you know, I'm a vibrationalguy because of everything that I've I've actually
experienced rather than what you know,the books are saying to you. And
some of these books are written inthe early nineteen hundreds and they're so outdated,

(31:38):
you know, and this is whatthey're They're they're pushing a dogma.
So I mean, I can bepretty here. I can be I can
be a handful when it comes tolike in a debate with people. But
uh, it's just the fact that, you know, it's if I wanted
to experience something, I made ithappen. I made it happen. Uh.
And there was never any excuse whyI couldn't do something. There was

(32:01):
never any excuse of why, youknow, something that would hold me back,
you know, And I think that'swhy, like when there are rituals.
When there's Hoodu rituals or even AppellachanHoodu rituals, I'm invited to them.
I'm an outsider. I'm not apart of anything. I know a
lot of people within the craft.I knew the late Ray Buckland personally.
When there was a circle cast orthere was a kind of ritual, I

(32:22):
was invited, even though I wasnot part of let's say a coven or.
I wasn't part of a group.You know, I was invited to
this stuff. They made sure theyinvited me. And I learned so much
through that, you know, andI you know, and I I practice,
you know, and you know,I gave up my Catholicism, but
many years ago, and but Inever gave up the you know, the

(32:45):
ethics, you know, some ofthe ethics of it. And I found
that the ethics cross all the boundariesof all religions. And you know,
if if everything else is just pablum, everything else is just um, it's
just wrapping paper. You know,That's the best way I can describe.
It's just wrapping paper. And ifyou break everything down, it all goes

(33:06):
down to the lowest common nominator,and it's very very common across the board.
Do one the others that's huge likeattracts like it's huge, you know,
manifesting working, you know, andand a lot of times, you
know, like you know, onereligion will say we don't use saints,
damn it, Well you use guides. What the hell do you think is
a difference. There's no difference,There's no difference. What's wrong with you?
You know, you know, AndI mean, it's it's all attracting

(33:29):
this intelligence from one source or whateversource. And you can have all these
thousands of deities and you know,you know, Arisha's and and all this
other stuff dancing around and it's allfocal points for energetic and you know,
uh, you know, to behonestly, I mean it's it's it's focused
intent. So it all breaks downto the exact same thing. And that's

(33:52):
something that I really have found isreally universal across the boards, is this
focused intent, because without it,all these religions are nothing more than lip
service. And you know, andand and I'll be honest with if you
start looking at at a lot ofthe religions and you break it down,

(34:15):
it's all the same thing. Theonly thing is is you have different people
who were who were ostracized in differentareas. Let's say the Roman Catholic Church.
Uh, they weren't they didn't fit, or the Christian some of the
Christian denominations, especially with your gayand lesbian and trans communities, they didn't
fit. So they were forced out. They were looking for something, they

(34:37):
were looking to fit somewhere and tofit there and there let their lifestyles be
accepted. And you start seeing itmore in the you know, growing up.
I mean, every congregation that Ieven was exposed to in the spiritual's
religion was huge amounts of these wonderfulpeople, you know, and to me,
I never saw any difference from Butin these other places they had all

(34:59):
these horrors stories, you know.So I mean you have to you know,
you have to find where you fit. And it doesn't matter in the
long run how you fit in orwhere. It just matters that you believe
in something. You have a spirituality, and that's it. That's it,
right, That's all there is tooit, there's nothing, there's nothing,
you know what Religion is made byman. Spirituality is your covenant with your

(35:22):
God or your deity. And thebottom line is if you have something,
your life is enhanced by it.Well, that's just it. And you
know it's the one thing that Iabsolutely teach anyone that mentors with me is
that anyone I will never tell themit's my way or no way exactly God

(35:45):
a certain you know certificate saying okay, you worked under me, and I
say you can do what you cando, fine, right, but I
will never And if anybody ever tellsyou, excuse me, that it has
to be their way, you're notcertifiable or whatever the case is, then
you know what, you can't dowhat you do. That's absolutely incorrect.

(36:05):
And it just drives me nuts.And it comes from my own experience when
I look at let's let's let's breakinto certification certifications, right, you know
what A certification is only good inthe in the organization that issues it.
Otherwise it's nothing. It's garbage,it's a it's a piece of scrap paper,
that's all it is. When Iteach my classes, when I teach
my advanced classes, I don't knowI got I got certifications up the ying

(36:29):
yang, you know, I youknow, every every every class I ever
took, I gotta I gotta searchfrom it, right, you know when
I do with it. I openedit up and I dump them on the
floor. I said, okay,there you go. You guys want to
see why certifications that's what they're goodfor. Now, impress me. You
want to do the work, youdo the work, you don't do it
for the certification. And again thesecertifications people don't realize. They think,

(36:51):
you know, you go to apsychic fair and these people all have I'm
a you know, you know reverendor are they you know what? I've
got three ordinations, you know oneone one is my favorite because it's like
the I think it's the like theChurch of the of the of the Flaming
Poodle or something. You know.Oh I am getting that. I am

(37:12):
getting. But I mean it's butyou know, seriously, when you start
looking at this. And it waskind of funny because when Christie sent me
the first first Manner, it hadReverend Tim Sean and I because a lot
of people look at that and theythink right away with me, they always
go they go to this Jude.I don't know why, but they go
to I could have this huge pinnacleon my chest and you know, my

(37:34):
shirt and like I could have likemy I could have my like devil earrings
in, and I can have allyou know, my all my skull rings
on, and they'll and they'll treatme and they'll talk to me as if
I was a Judeo Christian origin,and that's not right. So that's why
I decided to drop all titles andjust be me. And this way nobody,
nobody will go and like, uh, you know, I don't like

(37:59):
that. I don't I titled titlesare only good like, you know,
if if if I'm going to buryor marry somebody, you know, and
sometimes in that order, you know, with my friends. So uh,
you know, it's like but that'sthe way, that's the way I work,
you know, I mean you justthe highest compliment that anybody can give
me is you're just like a regularguy. You know, You're just like
somebody that walks along the street.And that's what it should be, because

(38:22):
uh, you know, what wedo, you know, is not supposed
to listen. I don't want Idon't want to be like these TV preachers
and like you know, have thismillion dollar house and all this other stuff.
I don't want that because the furtheryou are away from your congregation,
whether it's it's financially or educationally orwhatever. The further you are away from

(38:45):
being effective with that congregation, notlike scaring them into like belief, but
working with them if they have problemsor whatever, to work with them and
to be one of them. AndI found that if people feel that you're
one of them, they're they're open. They're much more open, and they're
much more receptive to your teaching orwhat you're doing. So that's why I
don't you know that whole the wholereverend thing. You know, I remember

(39:07):
when like nobody had it. Nowall of a sudden, like everybody.
Yeah, every time I passed gasthere, somebody comes up to me and
says, hey, do you knowI'm a reverend? I go wow.
And and I can tell you hadchili for lunch, you know what I
mean? That's you guys are gonnaget hate mail on that one. I

(39:29):
can tell you that right now,because I get hate mail on that one.
You know, I technically got abanner, you know, but about
you know, we you know,views of our gas blah blah blah.
Yeah, the viewser I guess arealways the views of where's my sea?
However, we need a mentor whodo we call you? Well? And

(39:53):
it's just that you know who.The whole point is, you know,
you learn. You should work withdifferent people and learn different things in different
ways because that is the most effectiveway to learn who you are and what
works for you. And that isall the modalities. People don't get exactly.
People get like locked into one thing, and that's wrong. You can't

(40:14):
be locked into one thing. Imean, I've I mean, I spent
I don't know, probably about sixsix five six years doing nothing for shamanism,
working with every shaman that I couldfind. I went all over the
place and you know, I meansweats and uh, I won't go into
some of the ceremonies. Guy,I don't want to go into that because

(40:37):
at the parties. No, it'sa lot I believe it has a lot
to do with it had a lotto do with psilocybin and stuff of that
nature. But but I just youknow, but I mean, you go
out there and you learn from thesepeople, and you constantly learn, and
you're doing it with the right reason, the right heart, and you're you're
searching. And then when you're satisfiedand you feel that you've had enough,

(40:59):
then you go and you start searchingagain, you start looking for something else.
I got into raiky healing, believeit or not, through ancient stone
stone tool making. Really through Yeah, that's the way I got. That's
the way I get into I don'tknow how Like, isn't that something that
you're into too? Like this?Yeah? That, I mean that one,

(41:20):
you know, my foot napping,my ash hands. I mean,
that's what I specialize in college.But but I can see doing that,
slamming your finger holding, yeah,you're you know, but yeah, I
worked really good. But no,I mean, I know that's yeah,
but you know, I mean,I think the problem I get is that,

(41:42):
Uh. I think I think thebiggest problem I have is people become
too myopic. They're they're too they'retoo shortsighted and stuff, and they're not
giving themselves the opportunity to get outthere and and really blossom and see what
else is out there. You know. I'll I I'm not a Buddhist by
any means, but I've been outthere and I've I've gone to the Himalayan

(42:05):
Institute. I've been a lot,you know, I've I've I've gone to
different lectures and and and I've goneto you know, study groups, and
I've done I've gone to meditations.I'm not a Buddhist, but I wanted
to experience it. Uh. I'vedone, you know, I mean,
I've done vision Quest, I've doneNative American, I've done vision Quest,
I've done the sweats. I've beenI've been a you know, I've been
the fire keepers. You know,that's the things of that nature. You

(42:30):
go and you learn this stuff,and it's fulfilling, and everything that you
learn kind of fits into whatever you'regonna learn next, and then it just
kind of just starts to snowball andyou know. Now, I mean I
was like, I was fascinated withvoodoo, and voodoo fascinated because of the
fact it was a lot of theold ways, a lot of the old

(42:50):
pagan ways that have been brought overhere from you know, from the Aisles.
And then voodoo, of course,is totally different from what we practice
up here. It's different from downin South America, which is a little
different from New Orleans, which isdifferent from the Dominican, which is different
from West Africa. You know,and you get a chance to really understand
that, you know, all ofa sudden now these these titles are gone,

(43:14):
you know, these monikers, voodooboom as you know as a blanket
name are gone because now you're startingto look at each individual tradition as as
something that is really stands by,It stands on its own. And then
when you start working with the practitioners, they stand on their own and they're
not just you know, listen,they're just not standing there with a cigar

(43:36):
and blowing smoke on you and thenholding a snake. Now there's so much
more to the what they're doing,and you're understanding it more, and I
think it enhances the entire experience becausethat's something that I found as a kid
going to Catholic school. It wasflat, you know, the experience of
what was going on. Of course, it was the way it was taught.

(43:57):
If it was taught properly, Iprobably would never have left cam because
they have they have an unbelievable traditionof mysteries. But that was not the
way it was taught, and itwas very flat. And that's what caused
me really to go and and kindof adhere to when I went to Lowie
Delavis my relatives in the summer anduh to really you know, being forced

(44:19):
into doing a Sunday school, thegig, but being able to go and
grasp it and really hold on toit, and those mysteries. And again,
I mean, you know, II don't, I don't. I
don't buy everything that the spiritualists tellme. I question everything about it.
I still question the whole Fox familyhold the whole thing. But on the

(44:39):
overall, on the overall, thingsmake more sense. And then when you
start looking at the Shakers, youhave mother ann Lee, who was who
who is a prophet? I mean, you know, she she she,
she was unbelievable. You have allthese profits from all these other religions.
Then you start seeing all the othersort of crazier religions out there, you

(45:00):
know, the United Community, theFree Love community down there, and uh,
you know the Miller writes that becameSeventh Day advidence, and you know,
I mean, you start seeing allof this, you start reading about
it, and you start studying it, and you see the evolution of how
everything starts to become different as itevolves, and by doing that you can
you can see your own evolution,your own life's evolution. And I know,

(45:23):
like I'm not the same person Iwas a year ago. Because of
the fact that I've gone and I'vemet so many more people out there,
you know that. And I've goneto some fun things and uh not as
not as many fun I didn't haveany balloons, I'm sorry, Christy,
you know, but nothing about pastieseither, you know. But well you

(45:45):
have snakes and smokes, so Idon't know. Listen, listen, I've
done naked Maypole, so you know, I'm just yea, you know,
things happened, you know, whenen roll you have to do with So
is that the contract you're doing becausethey are recruiting right now, because I
saw that on EJ's post the otherday. We're making afraid folks. But

(46:10):
yeah, I mean you know,but I mean a lot of people don't
realize that because a lot of peoplethink that, Okay, I'm gonna be
I'm I'm into I'm into this styleof witchcraft. Well there's a million different
styles of witchcraft out there. Youknow. Oh my god, you know
what it's saying, you got thevampireism. I've there there's you know,
I mean, I've hung with vampires, you know, I mean, I've

(46:31):
hung with bloodsuckers, and I've I'vehung with the energy, the energy vampires.
So I mean, these are theseare things that you know, you
got you should go out there andyou should experience for yourself. And people
don't do that because people are youknow what I've I've I hate to say
it, but a lot of peopleare afraid to do this stuff. A
lot of people are afraid to kindof push the boundaries, so you know,

(46:53):
and I've never been like that.I've been one of those people.
You know. Once, once Istarted going, I never stopped, and
you know, and oh yeah,and I didn't and and again, you
know, if I wanted to dosomething, I would go and do it.
I mean, if I wanted toexperience something, I would go and
experience it. U if I hadto go and get a part time job
so I could pay for this stuff, because I never took anything out of

(47:14):
household funds. If I had toget a part time job to pay for
all this stuff, I used togo and do that. And I would
would have this part time job justenough, just long enough so I could
pay so I know, I wouldhave gas, a hotel, and and
you know I could pay for mytuition. So I mean, this is
stuff that if I really wanted todo it. I made I made it
happen, and I'm so glad Idid because now it's kind of funny because

(47:37):
it's like, you know, whenpeople talk, I kind of sit there
and it's like, wow, youknow, don't be afraid to you know,
even in Western New York. Imean you can, you can go
out and experience stuff. And there'sso many different teachers here in Western New
York. All you gotta do isfind you know, it's growing up here.
I mean when we think about basicallyfrom Syracuse to Buffalo and how many

(48:01):
you know, we you know weI brought this up before I brought it
up with the big Foot guys andeverything else. How many major religions huge
right on twenty one, going fromthe Lake right down to the PA border.
You know you've got huge, major, major, yeah, you know,
and then where they all run to, they ran down to you know

(48:22):
that little areas to talk with it. We've done in last week, you
know with the Institute in the Daleand everything else like that. Yeah,
I mean, you got people don'trealize that because I mean that was all
called that was the burned over districtcoming on down right on down Theory Canal
from Albany, ind And I meanthat was that's how everything shot in every
direction, you know, and everybodywas that was that was like a free
for all trying to trying to getfootholds, religious footholds into that whole area.

(48:45):
And you know, we've got twomajor religions, seriously major Conspiritualism at
one time was a major religion thatfrom each other. We're talking, we're
talking maybe ten miles away from eachother, fifteen something like that. Where
you have the Church of the Latterday Saints. You know, you have
that in Palmyra. You have theSacred Grove, and you have the profit

(49:07):
you know, Joseph Smith's house,and you have everything that's there, you
know, and you know you haveHillkomoro where he received the golden tablets from
the angel Morane. And then downthe road there basically you have the beginning
of the Spiritualist religion in Hydesville.So these are two major religions that took
hold here in New York State andthat and there's also other ones. So

(49:30):
people don't realize that. And Ithink a lot of it has to do
with we had a debate about thisnot too long ago about the water and
about how the proximity, how closewe are to the water and the rushing
water, especially like Niagara and NiagaraFalls now, but Lake Ontario. Look
at all the UFOs activity. That'sthat's over Lake Ontario. People don't realize

(49:52):
it, you know, in NewYork State, they think, oh,
I'm going to go down to theHudson Highway, you know, you know,
to the UFO Highway. Everything runsaround up there. Man, all
you gotta do is go to Alcott, New York some night and sit there,
and you're gonna see something people peoplearen't. People aren't seeing that.
So there's something here. There's somethingmagical. I you know, I know
like authors and I know artists thatcome here to study and to work for

(50:17):
a period of time to develop hereand then go someplace. They'll go to
New York City or Los Angeles orSan Francisco or whatever, Florida sometimes Floridas
are Florida. Matt comes up hereall the time to go to Eastman to
do all the photography stuff. AndI will get to your questions in a
few minutes. But what I mean, but the big thing is is that

(50:38):
there's something up here that attracts it. And you know, a lot of
people don't realize that because a lotof people again, uh, they don't
know how, they don't know howto search for it, they don't know
where to search for it, theydon't even they don't even know the stuff
exists. And unless somebody goes outthere and like somebody will come to one
of my talks and they're like,Jesus, I didn't know that, and

(50:59):
it's like, well, you know, here, all you gotta do is
just look this up. Just lookthis up there there's you'll you'll find a
thousand and one thing like Okay,what's he doing on the side here?
But you know, it's just youknow, I mean, it's just simple
and people don't realize it and allit takes. But the other thing is
that people go, well, howcome you have how come you're such a

(51:19):
wealth of knowledge? But I onlystarted in nineteen seventy two with this stuff,
So you know, it's and I'venever I've never deviated a time,
you know, I've always been alwayshad that interest and Kodak, Yes,
Kodak attracts. I've taken classes there. So I'm not gonna listen. I'm
not gonna say anything. I likedit there. I'm wondering where you teach?

(51:40):
Where do I teach? No universities, Now, no universities would have
me. I wouldn't go to auniversity that would have me as an instructor.
I'll tell you that much. No. I teach all over the place.
I teach at the conferences, Iteach, little shops, big shops.
Does you know I teach all overthe place. I probably just about
over the east from my base.In all honesty, what's really amazing is

(52:00):
that my fan base reaches from SiouxSaint Marie, Michigan, and it goes
down through Appalachia and it goes intoFlorida, right in the northern Florida.
And that was always an amazing thingto me because I couldn't I couldn't understand
why I would be accepted in theBible Belt, you know, especially but
but but people, but again,you know, people also know. I

(52:22):
mean, I'm I'm fascinated by alot of the religious different sects they're out
there. And I'll be honest withmy favorite. My favorite thing is a
snake handlers. I think that they'rejust like they're an amazing group of people.
I believe that these people are onehundred percent there. They have that

(52:42):
that much intensive fervor and belief intheir religion that they can go and they
have no fear of grabbing grabbing apoisonous snake and dancing with it. And
I mean, I'm met a guythat had like all these like bites where
it got him and he goes,I haven't been to a hospital yet.
Wow, that's amazing. I mean, And when you meet people, but

(53:04):
this is the whole thing. Whenyou meet a person like this, it's
like, you know, you haveto you have they First of all,
nobody opens up if you're not genuineand if you don't have any if you
don't have like the like real interest, they know. And it's like when
you sit down there and you starttalking to them, and you start,
you know, and there, andyou know, I do I do have
a I can quote some things fromthe Bible and uh not that I've read

(53:25):
the whole thing like some of myother friends have. But I mean,
when you stay, you throw somethingout at them, and they take that
as a thank you because you've actuallymade an effort to reach with them and
to get to that common ground andpeople are so receptive to that, you
know, and you know, andand that's where I that's I guess that's

(53:45):
where I kind of excel when itcomes to my people's skills, and my
people's skills usually suck. Don't everstand behind me and all these or anything.
But I'm probably one of the worstcustomers are But you know, I
hate people. I hate people,but uh but you know, when it
but when it comes to go outthere and meet people, I've been able
to do that. And I've beenable to communicate and really and in different

(54:07):
levels with different people in different topics, and that's what I think. That's
a blessing. But that also isbecause I've always constantly had that interest.
And it's like bigfoot guys. Youknow, man, I'll tell you what
bigfoot is, like crazy and Ilove the whole concept of like the nuts
and bolts type dig foot and thenthe whole interdimensional type bigfoot, and I
love everything. I love everything aboutit, and I don't get a chance

(54:30):
to like get into it as muchas I'd like to. And you know,
but that's something else. Yes,have I ever gone on investigations,
Absolutely, and they're fascinating. They'refascinating. They're far more fascinating than most
paranormal investigations. I go on,why because I don't fall asleep in the
woods. But when I'm on aparanormal investigation, that's it. I'm done.

(54:52):
I'm done. I hit midnight,I go I fall asleep man at
Waverley, waver Waverley, Bertolos's Hospital. I fell asleep in the operating when
I stole my flashlights. The onlyway I could find my way out was
because I could see the exit signsthat were lit. That's the only way.
It's yeah, I mean, that'sthat's why I always carry three flashlights.

(55:13):
Two you can see in one.I don't think you want to look
for So, I mean, thisis this is okay, but really,
you know, I do have eightby ten drawings of it, but that's
another story. But I mean theseare but these are things. But people
love that and I love it,you know, And I think that's why
that's you know, guys like uhJohn Tenny. John Tenny is probably one

(55:37):
of the most rounded uh when itcomes to anything weird. That's what he
always says, all as weirdos,but anything that happens to be metaphysical or
whatever. He's so rounded in it, and I wish I could command a
quarter of the knowledge that that guyhas because he has worked with it so

(55:57):
much. He never borrow a flashlight, especially if it's a little sweaty.
Well. Arson actually has a question, what's the best tool, not necessarily
the most common in the paranormal worldof research, best tool outside of yourself.
We'll just go outside of yourself.It's because I like personal I'll be
honest with I'm at the point nowwhere I like personal experience is far more

(56:20):
than evidence, because evidence means Ihave to go home and work and try
to find it. Uh, youknow, uh, personal experiences. But
I'm I'm an audio guy, andI love audio. I love audio because
video is hit and miss. Wedon't know, and you know what I
mean. Let's face it. Everythinghas to go through computer chips. Now.
It's not like the old uh youknow, it's not like the old
negatives where we could just take apicture of it and then you get a

(56:44):
flat negative and figure out what's what'sone on it. Now everything is reinterpreted
through your camera. Of course.I mean most people use cell phones,
so you've got a plastic lens onit, so you never know how bad,
you know, how how good thatlens is. It Listen that that
that plastic lens is definitely not Germanis not German ground glass and all we
know that. So uh, youknow, you get a lot of misinterpretation

(57:05):
and that shit. I mean,I've seen some really compelling stuff, but
uh, I love audio because it'sjust it's And my favorite is when it
swears you drop an F bomber,you know, it drops an F bomber
or something, because you know thatis not FCC regulated, you know,
And uh, yeah, I meanI think I love that. I really,
I think it's something and yeah,sixteen mil, Yeah, that's I

(57:28):
love that. I love doing that. And I know a lot of people
that have gone back and they've dugout their old fujikas and nikons and that
stuff, and now they're all rediscovering the joy of having to work with
with film, and a lot ofthem have gone back to black and white,

(57:49):
which I always love, and theyhave their own little dark rooms and
stuff. So they're working with itnow and they've they're actually and you know
what the other thing is is thatthey're using instead of I R light,
they're using either a dark room redlight or UV light and those two,
yeah, those two seem to you'reable to catch more. You're able to
catch. IR is great if youYeah, if IR is great if you're

(58:12):
like want to if you're doing ashow or you're you know, you're recording
something, that's cool. But ifyou're looking for evidence the other stuff to
do. But I love the fact, you know, when you get a
look at this guy with that,don't don't get yourself in the eye with
that. That one's broken. ButI mean a lot of times because I
mean when you I'll be working withsomething and I do all my short burse
because I don't that the days ofme doing twelve hours of constant recording you're

(58:37):
are over. But I mean Ido all short burse and I mean all
of a sudden, you know,you get an f you or you get
like that, you know, orit answers a question, or it answers
who is this or something. Youget that and it's like, wow,
I think that's great. I'm not. I like the ITC stuff. I
love scanners because you know, I'ma nerd with that stuff. It's a

(58:58):
matter of fact. You see thatold well, the old radio over my
shoulder there. That's a that's actuallya stripped down model, that's actually a
spirit radio. So when I'm workinghere but i'm writing my books, I
turned that on. It's my inspirationbehind so so I you know, I
so we have that. You know, that's all set up in there,
so, I mean, that's nota little creepy to be writing. Sorry

(59:20):
to interrupt you on that and justhave somebody's voice kind of pop up and
just Mike, Mike, Mike,Mike. I was doing the laundry with
it with this stuff on, andone thing I'm in I'm at the old
house. I'm in, I'm working. I'm working in laundry right. Nancy's
upstairs working in her office and I'mfolding laundry and I have the thing on
and you know what I got,You will scream just like that in a
frequency that was lower than what itsounded like, you know what it was

(59:43):
going through. And I said,oh, yeah, I'm gonna scream.
Yeah, okay, yeah, right, So I grabbed my phone, man,
I hit the recorder through it onthere and said, who am I
talking to? Real time? Mikecame through, Uh, And I mean
I had about probably three good minutesof real time interaction. That was amazing.
That was amazing to me. Idon't believe it was coincidence because it
was just I mean, it wasjust that like whatever I asked, it

(01:00:07):
answered. But a lot of times, a lot of people are going,
oh, these that was my name, And I'm sitting there going, no,
it just went you know, yeah, that wasn't your name. That's
not your name. Are you ohis that your name? Or you a
caveman or you Neanders? You know, that's not your name. But a
lot of people they want to believeit's so much and they want this stuff

(01:00:28):
to happen to him, so they'rematrixing in audibly. So that's another thing.
I mean, you know, again, that's why I like to record
my my sessions. But again,you know, i TC is fascinating.
I mean, Frank Sumption was hewas crazy. He wanted to go and
talk to purple women from Venus orsomething. I believe that was the reason.
Yeah, he wanted to talk tohe wanted to talk to to aliens

(01:00:51):
through these skinners, these things,all the boxes, and you know,
I mean, and that's where itstarted to come in from there, and
and uh, you know, youstart. You know, I'm still one
of those guys that works with alittle bit of white noise. You know.
I like the white noise to tryto just give it something to work
with rather than just always working witha scanner box. But the scanner box

(01:01:15):
is the big thing. Now.I think I've got eight. I think
I've got eight scanners and the firstspirit boxes to filters. I think I
got six. Yeah, I thinkI got six. And I built you
know, I built them and Ibought them and you know, and you
know, and you know, stufflike this over here. I mean,
that's great. That was that Thatwas I went to Paranormal Lotterities one day

(01:01:37):
and I said that Joe, Ineed the parts. It was it was
like it was like a pumpkin.I stuck my hands in there and pull
everything out, you know, andand you know, and we put it
together. So that's I mean alot of it. That's what we do.
We put it. But it's it'sjust fun to work with. But
I love I love old record Ilove first of all, I like,

(01:01:59):
uh, I still like cassettes.Johnny's appas still uses a lot of cassettes.
I know a lot of people thatuse the mini cassettes. I've still
got one of my original UH cassetterecorders that I used when I was first
in the field, and I stilluse that to this day. I seem
to get actually better results on it, clearer results because there's no there's like

(01:02:24):
noise limitar on there, but that'sit. And I like a lot of
the cheap, the really cheap audiorecorders I have. I have a couple
that are really expensive. I havea couple of I paid almost five I
put one it's almost five hundred five. I don't want to say it loud
because my wife is around here,but she came back. I'm jack yet,

(01:02:51):
you know, But I mean Ipaid big money for these things,
and I'm gonna be totally honest withyou if I was, if I was
a musician, these things are perfectfor But the cheaper, the cheaper the
recording or the recorder is uh,the less filters around it. And like
I have a Sony that I probablybought. I don't even know it,
but it's over a decade. Istill use this digital that is, and

(01:03:13):
you can strip off like your noiselimitation and your hists and all that,
all this other stuff on it,and that's what I use. I bought
and I have these old Olympus recordersthat I bought for like six dollars a
piece on on on eBay. Youknow, ridiculous, now yeah, and
you know, I mean and youbut these things are like there's nothing on

(01:03:36):
them, so when you're recording,you you're more apt to be able to
pick something up. And that's that'swhat I love. So I love audio.
I like recorders a lot. Idon't like anything fancy, you know.
At one time, I mean,I I used to set up I
used to set up my my laptopwith uh oh my god, with a
soundboard, and like I would goand I would have two condenser mics and

(01:03:59):
one dynamic mic and I would Iwould go and set up a room and
I would record the room to haveeverything piped into into one program. And
you know, it was like,you know, at that point, I
knew, I knew that there wassomething wrong with me because I wasn't getting
anything, you know, there wasnothing that was really getting you know,

(01:04:23):
there was nothing. You know,what I was getting. I was getting
mice. I was getting mice inthe walls. That's what I was.
There was so sensitive. I wasgetting mice in the walls, but I
wasn't getting anything that was like spiritual, and so I stopped using that and
I went into you know, justthat my old Sony and I have two
of them. I have an olderan older one and one that's almost relatively
new, so that's a decade old, uh, And I get the most

(01:04:46):
out of those. And I workedwith them too. But the only the
other trick I will tell everybody rightnow is with your equipment, you have
to kind of attune to it.Like as as a as a spiritualist,
I'm a true believer that when you'reworking like with like spiritual seance tools,
let's say spiritual sentence tools, youshould have tuned yourself to them. So
that means that you should like putthem underneath your bed when you're sleeping,

(01:05:09):
keep them near you, that allthat thing. You know, if and
if and if you you're so disposedyou know, to put them in bed
with you, that's up to you. But I think you need a therapist
at that point. But what I'mjust saying to Y, you need to
have that. But yeah, youhave to. It has to you know,
it has to be you have tobe your energy has to mesh with

(01:05:30):
it. And I think that becausewe are the as a dowser, I
believe that we are the the antennaand everything comes through us and it attracts
into whatever you're using. And Ifirmly believe that. And I mean I've
used again, I've used those thesetwo recorders almost exclusively. I do have
a one shot recorder I bought fromShane Pittman from the Holterer Files that I'm

(01:05:53):
experimenting with. And I've actually gotsome really good responses on that because there's
no filters whatsoever on it. Butuh, but for general use, that's
what I love. I actually lovethat. Where do you find because that's
now I get them on that eBay, I get him on Amazon. You
can buy them. Yeah, ohyeah, that's right, you can buy
them. Yeah really yeah yeah.So I actually just so, we were

(01:06:16):
down, you know, in Whitehallthere for the event, and I had
we were down with Paul Bartholom andPaul ended up giving Eli a whole box
of cassettes and he's like, whatare these? And I went out to
my jeep and I grabbed the taperecorder that because of course you have it
in your jeep and handed it someeverybody. Come on, Christy, come

(01:06:41):
for Alex and Eli like what isthat? You know? I'm like,
this is a tape recorder. Ohmy gosh, tapes on back in the
day. What never mind, hereyou go, you know, and you
know, and they're like, wedon't know what to do. And when
I saw Steth two weeks ago,I said, look, I gave the
boys this because they're out in alot more locations across the country. Right,

(01:07:02):
take this and use it. You'retwenty bucks on Amazon to go grab
one. All those bad boys andwe have I mean seriously, I mean
they's talk with uh because well,you know what, you know what the
big bottoms guys, because they seestuff on TV. They see this all
this TV, all this stuff onTV. And don't get me wrong,

(01:07:23):
I've got the I've got the littleI've got the gadgets, I got the
little music box, and I've gotthe you know, I've got all the
you know, the Mel meet theram melmeter, which I absolutely love myself,
and the rempods and all that.But the bottom line is is that
people see this stuff on TV andthey think that this is going to help
them aid them in something and they'respending so much on it where you just

(01:07:48):
go back to basics, man,just go back to basics and you can
find you know, if you takea star from cup No One, rub
it on your arm and put itdown there, if something walks through,
it's going to take off. Andyou know, people don't realize that there's
the old school. Sometimes it's stillthe best methods, some of the older
stuff. And I mean, here'sthe difference. Here's and my buddy Frank

(01:08:10):
and I from Western Bloc, FrankKuka, we both talked about this.
When we go and we do apublic event, what do people want to
see? They want to see bellsand whistles, they want to see flashing
lights, they want to hear thingsbuzzing, and you know, you know,
with all this all this great stuff, but when you're on a one

(01:08:30):
on one when you aren't doing someserious work, you want to be able
to go and have you know,a site could come through and give them,
you know, bird dog for yougive them where you know the hotspots
might be and you know what they'regetting. And then you want to set
up just the basics and go inthere. And I mean I was I
mean, I know some teams thatgo out there, they have a hundred

(01:08:53):
pieces of equipment and it's all outand running at the same time, and
it's like this is this is insane, Whereas like, you know, how
many rampods do you need? Youknow, what do you? First of
all? If depending what kind ofspirit does it may not what the hell
this stuff is? You know,you got to think of it. You
know, you don't not to mentionyour build. You're building, you know,

(01:09:14):
your own generator of Basically, Ifeel all this luck as you know,
Oh yeah, you're producing all thisemf what do you expect? My
hair, eyes are blighting, Youreyes are blading. Turn the thing off.
Turn the thing off. You know. I remember we used to we
used to go. We used togo get all the the uh we used

(01:09:35):
to get to the Oh god,what the hell are they? Oh?
I can't go. They're they're fromthe old beer the beer signs we used
to make the Yeah, we dothe Jacob's ladder to charge the room up,
you know, And I can't think. I probably the wonder I gotta
brain damage you because we're exposing toourselves. So all this all this stuff,

(01:09:58):
you know, and I'm yeah,but I'm a firm believer that a
lot of the basic stuff. Youknow, if if if if you go
out and you get an old recorder, maybe a K two meter, you
know what else you in need?I mean, seriously, get get yourself
on. Yeah, I get yourselfa couple of flashlights. And I love

(01:10:21):
I love using the magnet. That'swhat is the mag light. I have
the best luck with get I getnothing on mag lights. Laugh they hate
you, they hate you. Yeah, it's nothing. She walks over,
puts them down, sits down,and don't you Yeah, yeah, I
know that. I yeah, shesucks something. When you do stuff like

(01:10:45):
that, I get nothing. Iget I don't get anything with that.
But I mean, on the otherhand, I mean when it comes to
uh uh but when it comes touh twin floors, you know, with
m pods and stuff, I meansome my stuff is like I mean I
can get all three of them togo off, you know, like three

(01:11:06):
mpods to go off at the sametime, and ask it to turn it
off and all three of them gooff at the same time. So I
mean, you know, but again, everybody is different, you know,
everybody is built different, and that'swhat and that's what we use, so
and and and but I mean,you know again, I'm a dowser.
So I mean I I have anold you know, I have a couple
sets of dowsing rods and a pendulum, and I mean we found family cemeteries

(01:11:29):
that way. You know that thethat the stones are underground. You know,
this is stuff that I you know, people just they think that they
have to buy all of this stuff. And don't get me wrong, it's
fun. But when you have togo and slep this stuff in boxes and
packs and everything else, and Imean DV, DV, DVR, you
know, recorders and all this otherstuff, you know, monitors there you

(01:11:55):
go games. Yeah, listen,I if I if I took you into
my storeroom over here, I havefour three shelves of cameras, and you
want to know a secret, Idon't use any of them anymore. Is
probably thrilled just to hear you saythat every time you say that. Probably
Well, I have I have whatwe use for the paranormal stuff. And

(01:12:18):
then I have my big football andI'm looking at six crates in front of
your any But that's but that's it. I mean, you know, I
mean it gets to the point whereyou have to have a massive team in
order to slup this stuff in andset it up and everything for I have
for that, Oh well, Idon't have listen, I don't have a
mic. So you know this,this is Mike and this is like so

(01:12:42):
I have to go. You gotFrank and Joe to do all that stuff
for it, and hey, ifyou're gonna buy stuff, you gotta go
to Paranormal Oudities. Go see Joe. We got it absolutely and if you're
buy it from he'll set it upfor you. Yeah. But but you
know, it's it's funny because it'slike I started the roller with a rubber
made roller to tote, you know. I mean that's that's the stuff I

(01:13:03):
had just for me. And itjust got to a point where it was
ridiculous. And I mean, now, because I'm cheap, I went to
Amphets and I bought a three dollarsNo, it's two dollars, a little
a little like camera case. There'sa little tiny camera case. That's all

(01:13:24):
I use. It's like it's likemy it's like it's my merse, you
know. It's it's like a manpurse. But I can put all everything
I need in there, and Idon't need anything extra. And I mean
it really makes a big difference becausefirst of all, it's in the dark.
Do you know how much stuff guys? You know what? My stuff
has walked on me, people havetaken it. I've left it behind.

(01:13:47):
It's dark, you're setting up,it's five o'clock in the morning, you
can hardly keep your eyes open.You're throwing stuff in the boxes. And
a couple of weeks left it downthe roof of the gee you know.
Oh, oh, I've done that. Yeah. My K two disappeared.
And I don't have all I havemy sls, I have a K two,
I have my flashlights. My Ktwo where it went? This is

(01:14:13):
what's so nice about Like I useso I either use that or I use
a belt. If you guys,I know Mike is familiar with it.
A shot it's it's a shotgun shellholder and it's just a pulch. It's
a night lot of pol that sitson your hands, off your belt.
Yeah, and you can. Iuse that every so often, just for
equipment, you know, if I'mjust but I don't use a lot of
stuff, and and uh, youknow, it's funny because I'll put up

(01:14:38):
like any of my evidence against anybodyelse's that gets it in the same location
that night. And the best partabout the whole thing is is I'm in
my car on my way home whilethey're still packing it up. And that
to me means all the difference inthe world, ease of movement, uh
being a total independent control. IfI'm going to take a camera, I

(01:14:58):
take me of my smalls. IfI want to go and I'm just doing
audio, I'll take maybe I'll maybeI'll take one of the zooms. You
know, I don't. But forthe most part, no, it depends
on where I'm going and what Iwant to accomplish. But for the most
part, I've I've got more thanenough that I can in that just a
little tiny bag. You know,everything I've gone to is pretty much on

(01:15:18):
a sling bag. Now, that'sthe best way I took. And it's
got some Moli gear so in magpouches, and I just dropped those nice
meg pouches. I running the recordersoff the back and I can live listen,
you know. That's the way.And if I need more than that,
I go with a tech vest whereI've got mago and I've got and

(01:15:39):
I've got the tech vests I've got. Yeah, I got a photographer's vest
that I use like a fishing vest. Right, you can just get a
fishing vest. You can get afishing vest, but I like the photography
vest is better because it's longer.You know. It's the other one is
it is sort of an like anice jacket. It goes to the waist.
These are a little bit longer.There's more there's more pockets and there's
more room in there. And whenI was when I was filming for different

(01:16:01):
plays for different places, uh,it was great because I would wear that
and I could have I'd have differentlenses, and I would have like enough
batteries to take, you know,to take on the world, and you
would have it because you're forever.You know. Batteries are like two hours.
But if you get if you geta battery drain, what are you

(01:16:23):
gonna do? Oh the ping pong, Well he's cutting that, yeah,
parabolic. Yeah, you have gotthe tactical Tuesday thing. That is awesome.
That's perfect. Yeah, Um Larson, was it h send you some
audio if possible. I know he'sgot some cool stuff down there. You'd

(01:16:45):
like to talk to Matt. He'sa he's he's another photojournalist, and yeah,
yeah, absolutely absolutely, that's fun. He's our Florida connection and he
knows I around a camera like youdo. And you know, listen,
nobody's like Tim though. No,I'm just saying the man behind the cam.

(01:17:11):
You know, I've got listen inmy storeroom, I have I have
a I will admit this. Ihave a rubber made container that has a
portable studio in it. It haseverything I can. I have a I
have a three camera system with thelights, the microphones, backdrops, several
backdrops. Uh you name it,it's there, and uh asked me the

(01:17:36):
last time I used it, Oh, probably four years ago, you know.
So yeah, yeah, that's fun. But yeah, but I mean
it's you know people, but peopleare tech heavy, people like the latest
tech people, and you know whatit's getting to be like, it's getting

(01:17:56):
to be like a fashion show.Because I was on I was this public
hunt, right and I won't saywhere because it was out of state,
and they're really nice people there,but this group that came in, it
was like they're pulling out all thisequipment, all brand new, latest stuff,
every single one of them. AndI can tell you it was hysterical

(01:18:18):
because they were just like lording itover all these other people you know that
you know, just like schlepts likeme, you know, my little bag.
To be honest with you, theyused not even an eighth of their
equipment and they slept it the wholenight. And it was six buildings that
they had to go through, tunnelsthey had to go, and I mean

(01:18:41):
it, and there's some there wassome hilacious places that you know, I
had to get on my hands andknees to get through the tunnel and and
uh, you know, and Imean they're schlepping this stuff. And I
mean they've got these they've got thesephotographs or these photographer backpacks just full.
I mean they're not even like they'renot like the small ones. These are
little big those big ones, right, And that's just a turn. I

(01:19:03):
mean to think of even even forme to pack a bag with just extra
batteries and all that heavy stuff forme, I'm like, yeah, I
mean, that's why that's why I'mso I think that's why I'm so careful
with my stuff because of what Itake and I and everything's everything's maximized.
It depends on where I'm going andwhat I'm going to do, and everything

(01:19:24):
is maximized for that. It's it'sall made for Uh. Oh, Michael
lock the that's the acorn from upAlaska. How are you, Michael,
Michael's my hero. Michael on theold Black Cat Lounge. Mike used to
go and we had he had theinspirational had a little inspirational segment on my

(01:19:44):
show and it was always great.We always had that and we you know,
I forget what it was called now, but Mike always every every week
he he had something. It wasso cool and he would talk about it
and that was all that was partof the show when we were doing it.
So Michael's all right, thanks forjo and Mike and I and Mike
and I first actually met face toface at the Waverley Tuberculosis Hospital. So

(01:20:05):
so so but but but it wasgreat because he he had scoped out the
place the day before and instead andhe knew the great the best places to
eat. The guy the buff theplace that we had buffalo steaks, remember
that, Mike. We had buffalosteaks at that restaurant across the street from
the hotel. And that was thatwas a that was a great it was
a good experience. That was agreat experience. As a matter of fact,

(01:20:27):
of Mike not always about the pizzahunt him, no, no,
no, pizza. Pizza is avery very integral part of my paranormal experience.
Yeah, Mike, you know,and Mike was and Mike is is
a riot because now Mike is,Uh, Mike is. Mike's a all

(01:20:49):
around guy man, He's a he'sa survival guy. And you would love
him, Mike, you love him. Uh. He's a surrive guy.
He built a small home, alittle house he lived in on on a
trailer. Uh. And he's backup in Alaska now and uh, I
love and he's a photographer. Thestuff that the stuff that I see from
him is amazing. So it's alwaysgood. Mike is one of my heroes.

(01:21:10):
Mike is. Seriously, he's oneof my heroes. And we go
back, we go back. Ohmy god, it's early early early pair
of X days. And that's hisname, that's his that's his nickname.
The acorn Um. Yeah, you'vejust you've just done so many different Um

(01:21:33):
I'm boring, give me a break. Listen. Some days I bore myself.
That's how I sleep at night.Yeah, you're so boring. This
is the perfect time to bring upMatt's other question. Anything with the photos
behind you, those are those areGrand Armies of the Republican Yeah, those

(01:21:55):
are Grandarment of the republic photos.They and those the Grand Army of the
public was the Veterans organization of Unionof the Union Soldiers after the Civil War
that took care of them. Theyhad they created hospitals and orphanages and old
folks homes and all that rendered aidde wittles and orphans. And these two
are identified unidentified, but they're wearingthe uniforms. They're wearing the badges at

(01:22:23):
they would have been uh leaders,uh, some kind of officers in a
post like the Veterans Post. Soyeah, I collect if if if you
could see, if you look behindme, you see that the little high
rise back there, that is allCivil War memorabilia, my relatives that fought

(01:22:45):
in all sorts of photographs and thiswhole this section of the collection room,
that this section is just American.Now, I got you on a public
venue. When does the museum open? Never? This man for you guys,
just you know, what boards.Well, you know what, you

(01:23:12):
know funny, Uh when we movedinto this house, I didn't want to
tell anybody what I did, youknow, so you know, yeah,
I mean you know what I mean. It's like, you know, so,
uh they my one neighbors that westarted speaking to because I don't talk
to a lot of people in myneighborhood. You know, I'm pretty quiet.
And uh, well they found outI was. They had a they

(01:23:34):
had a blurb in me, Ithink in one of the little local newspapers
and so on. You know.I brought the one, you know,
my one neighbor down there, andshe's just like, was like, holy
crap. You know, she's youknow, the the uh the unusual stuff
is kind of overwhelming a little bit. And uh so her I think it's

(01:23:55):
it's her brother in law. Herbrother in law. Last night Halloween.
Of course they're out Halloween trick ortreating and Nancy and are sitting in the
Yeah you can come something, ya, I'll bring you in here. Uh
So he you know, he,you know, we're sitting out there at
the garage giving out candy and hecomes over with his girlfriend. He goes,
hey, can we see that museum. Can we see what you got?

(01:24:15):
So I brought him down there,and I think he was a little
overwhelmed. Uh you know, Imean I have like eighty two Eigi boards,
but you know, I have liketwenty antiques on display, and then
uh I have I have my Africanpieces. I have you know, the
nail effigs, and I have piecesthat uh I have. I have one
that gave responses when we were filmingin a location, so I was able

(01:24:40):
to get that piece, you know. And I have asylum and sanitarium pieces.
I have quack medical devices I have. I have a I have a
postcard from the Wildwood Sanitarium with thesanitarium on the front, and the woman
who wrote the postcard actually xed outthe windows that her room was that well,
that was her room where she stayed. I have. I have a

(01:25:00):
postcard from Buffalo, New York,my hometown, with the Spanish American about
the Spanish American or a Spanish flu. Oh there was a cool article right
here there you go. That's it. Uh yeah, that's on the Villager.
And a look at will and Chautaquafrom last week. Yeah they had
and then the girls were down herefor the yeah, yeah, but I

(01:25:26):
mean you get you know, Ilove this stuff and I love everything the
quack medical devices because everything was batteryoperated, so they used to bring DC
power through you. And I havelike what they call a Boyd's pendant about
it's about the a big and it'sall looks like it looks like little uh
hearing aid batteries and you would wearthat, and you would you would absorb
the DC current. And I've gotand as a and as a matter of

(01:25:49):
fact, I just got from theBooth Brothers, the uh the film guys.
Uh they for they do all thecrazy docs and stuff. They they
sold me a small bone saw,a little it's a cranial bone saw and
uh so I got that through TSA. That was always interesting. But I
mean that was put in with theexorcism kit, you know, because I

(01:26:13):
taught, because I taught cleansing thisat this last one. But that but
I mean, I love that stuff. I think it's fascinating. But also
I mean I've got like stuff thatuh people have wanted to get rid of
out of the houses. You knowthat we're active. You know Father James
Long from he's an exorcist, he'sa bishop James Long down in Louisville,

(01:26:33):
Kentucky with the US Catholic Church.Uh. He gave me a real primitive
doll that was that was causing someproblems. I have a lot of small
children's toys that cause problems. Ihave. I have Peruvian mummy wrap that
were found in the in you know, the andes. Uh. I have

(01:26:57):
dolls that are made out of him. I have a beautiful and absolutely absolutely
beautiful voodoo doll from the nineteen fortiesmade out of a uh you know,
made out of some stuff, youknow, made out of stuff uh uh
hoo doo a a hoo doo uhuh doll, I mean a plus on
top of it with my Victorian morningcollection. Now I've got hair, jewelry,

(01:27:19):
I've got I just picked up ahandle from a reclaimed Victorian coffin that
was you know that they dug upand they got that. And photographs of
mourning and uh you know, andof course I have you know, you
know, I have photos with withLorraine Warren, who I've met, who
I had met and talked to severaltimes, and the late Raymond Buckling of

(01:27:42):
course, and you know, andand and places I've been you know,
so like little mementos and stuff,and you know, piles of piles of
antique tarot cards. Uh, youname it, it's over there, you
know, and some of the andand again on the and then my buddy
Dan Class who owns the Hinzel House, he was in England and he found

(01:28:04):
a guy actually sold him a witchspike. And yeah, and it's got
the you know, the the thecopy of the photo and you can see
the spike into the hip where youknow, if the witch had come back
alive, she would have moved inthe witch and the spike would have embedded
into her, into her pelvis.So, I mean, you know,
things of that nature. I thinkthat's fascinating, you know. Uh,

(01:28:28):
I mean I don't you know,it doesn't see, it doesn't bother Nancy
or Eye. It doesn't really doesn't. You know, nothing nothing down there
really bothers anything nobody. Every sooften things get a little content Chris,
a little a little iffy, butyou know, then you just do a
couple of things and everything settles downagain. But yeah, but I mean
it's like I just did a Ijust did a class. It's called h
Weigi Madness, and uh I broughtsome of my antique boards, and I

(01:28:54):
brought a bunch of other boards sopeople could use them, and I could
teach people how to use the weigiboards properly and safely, and how we
can work with it, and howwe can you know, people can actually
you know, demystify it and understandhow it works, and you know what
to do if you start getting allthis craziness. So I mean, wow,
I love that this is this isstuff that to me gives meaning to

(01:29:16):
life, you know, and andit's addition and plus, I mean,
I can you know, I've gotNative Americans. I've got I've got so
much stone tool authentic stone tool pieces. I can't even I don't have any
place to display them. You know. I have some beautiful pieces that you
know, that have come out ofdifferent pits and and different settlements. So

(01:29:38):
maybe one day I'll get a chanceto do that. But you know,
I do have a four I dohave a four foot long. We talked
about doing and reading this one daytoo, So yeah, that's excellent.
I have, you know, again, I've got all my reference books and
stuff that's and I and actually I'vepaired down I gave the library a bunch.
And then I gave Joe when hefirst opened up his shop, I

(01:29:59):
gave him a bunch when I calledout a lot of my stuff. And
if you got one of my books, that you put one of my that
I've got your tie gee for dummiesaround here or something that's hysterical told me
when you told me that I wasdying. But you know, you never
know when you find this stuff.And again, where do we come around
that big circle? And yeah,who do we know? And how does
that rules? It's all synchronicity,and people don't get that. People don't

(01:30:24):
understand that we're all you know,everything everything, Everything is a cycle,
Everything's a circle, and that's theway we work it. I won't be
in the same house with Luigi.Yes, you're not coming over it,
Pat, I guess you're not comingover for dinner. Although, Pat,
if you like to live, ifyou'd like to set out on the on
the deck and I will serve you. I would I would do that.

(01:30:46):
I would do that. The problemat all. So I've got a question.
You've been doing this for a longtime, Um, all these dolls,
Why do the dolls seem to bealways possessed? And why do those
damn Raggedy Ann and Amy dollars alwayssee it's Hollywood, Hollywood, guys,

(01:31:09):
just put I just put a postup there about that stuff. You know,
what, what is this stuff?We had a set as kids that
I could not stand, you know, and we didn't watch any of that
horror movie stuff when we were kids, you know, you know that was
that was pre you know, thatwas the early seventies. When we got

(01:31:30):
them from my grandparents. I madesure those damn things were stored as soon
as we could get them into thecrawl space. I hated those things.
My mom thin it should have beenburned somewhere, you know what I mean,
just clown dolls that we removed fromhouses or somebody you know, has
given it to me. And it'sfunny, uh there. I get more

(01:31:56):
reaction when people see those than Ido when they when they see all the
other crazy stuff. You know.Uh, it's you know, and and
here's here's my thing. Why arethese you know? And and I understand
why, well, why are allthese like haunted locations collecting these dolls and
putting them in like a dollar roomand stuff. And you know, it's
like, yeah, okay, andI understand major creep factor on it.

(01:32:18):
But uh, you know, Ido have like and I'll tell you one
thing, Mike. I do havethe small Teddy Bear with a compact and
it came from a family that thelittle girl died of cancer. It's just
a small little thing, and um, it was one of that doll and
that compact or two of the thingsthat she really loved. So when they
broke up a room, they keptthat and they did see her in the

(01:32:44):
room by the doll. Well,they were thrilled about it. They weren't
afraid, but they didn't want thekids, the other kids, the other
children to see it. They didn'twant them to be exposed to it.
They didn't know how they were goingto react and everything. So I have
something like that. That's that's totallydifferent. That's totally different. But I
mean I have stuff that if youwent to Okay, I'll just use as

(01:33:04):
an example. You ever went toJohn Zaphis's house. I've seen photos of
his collection. He has clown dolls. They're probably like six deep, oh
down a wall. Because I mean, because people freak at this stuff.
I have that. I have adoll from Virgin House. Oh hell no,
you keep that thing and burn thatthing, right, I do it.

(01:33:26):
I gotta, I gotta think forburg and a good thing. Joe's
gone already. I mean he getthat house freaked him out. There were
a big foot and we had youcan see him two episodes and we're talking
about that place. Well, youknow, I mean I was there years
ago, you know, you knowI was there. Yeah, and uh,
you know, I mean and andCathy said, do you want this
doll? I'm gonna get rid ofit because it's freaking out my granddaughter and

(01:33:48):
his whole thing. And I hadtalked to some people and they said they
got some really crazy EVPs, alot of swearing and thing wanted to be
called Sadie and uh, stuff likethat, you know. And and somebody
swears that the they have video ofthe arm. I'm still looking for that
person that has that. But youknow, I always remember that. And
I said, yeah, I'll takethat shows take the damn chair. So

(01:34:08):
it's got a little chair with it. So I was pretty cool. And
you know, it was so funnybecause that night we were there and I
always whenever I get something with this, I always go and I seat belted
in. So this night. Ihad a seat belted in the front seat.
Now Virgin House, as you know, it's all surrounded bipromodial swamp.

(01:34:28):
It's in the country. There's nolights, so I don't know. It's
two three o'clock in the morning andI'm driving and I must have put it
in a certain way, and theface was looking towards me. I looked
down and I said, listening,it's little son of a bitch. You
move or make a noise, You'regoing out that window. I'm telling you
right now, I'm going to grabyou and throw you right out that window,
you know. And it was funnybecause Kathy had asked, me,

(01:34:49):
well, you know it's not givingyou any problems. I definitely not.
And she goes, I can't imaginewhy. I don't understand why it's not
giving you any problems. I said, well, here's the thing. Pretty
much, wherever I go with Relics, it goes with me. It has
gone to more places than I've takenmy wife on vacation, so I think
it really enjoys it. And ifyou know, and I'll be like going,

(01:35:10):
I'll be going to Detroit, orI'll be heading up to up to
the up and I'll be shooting acrossgoing in through Canada. And as I'm
going into Canada, people are like, you know, the people at the
border, like, uh, youknow, you know, what are you
doing? So I'm telling them,oh, really, what you're bringing anything
in? I said, I've gotlike hundred objects in that trunk in the
back in that And what I'll alwaysdo is I put Sadie into my backpack

(01:35:32):
in the backpacks in the front seat, and then he's like this standing.
They're like, you know, hangingout of the backpack. They're like they
it freaks them out a little bit. I had listen, I had I
had a three foot you know whosent a Marte is, yeah, sent
the Morte is a folk saint fromCentral America and she's been really homogenized lately,

(01:35:53):
but before she was a hardcore folksaint of drug cartels and and you
know, under the underworld and stuff. And whenever the police used to raid
a place, they'd see a ashrine to her and they break it up
and she looks like the grim Reaper, you know, she's she's she's the
bone Goddess and she's got the scytheand that. So I have a.

(01:36:15):
I had a small effigy of herin my collection, and I was speaking
up at the Saint Catherine's Uh yeah, the Saint Catherine's Witchcraft and Voodoo Festival.
Why because I can't, And sothey made this like three foot one
for me. So I remember outsaying, better put that in the trunk

(01:36:38):
because you know, don't know whatit is at the border and stuff.
I said, wow, okay,And I'm now at the end of the
event. I'm walking out and I'mthinking, I'm just not like I just
don't know, you know, I'mnot thinking, you know, I put
her in my back seat. Iwant to put her in a trunk.
You know. They got an SUV. It's dirty back there's I put her
in there and I seat belt herin. So I'm rolling up to the
Peace Bridge. So I get throughthe Canadian you know, and I'm going

(01:37:00):
towards the of the US and Istopped. You know, you gotta wait
your turn, And I went,oh no oh. If I jump out
and put this in the trunk,i am like ticketed for I'm gonna be
pulled over. They're gonna be deflatingmy tires, They're gonna be looking for
drugs and everything. You know,awhere, you know what I'm gonna I'm
gonna bite the bullet. I'm gonnasee what happens. So I have my

(01:37:21):
I have my ID, and I'mdriving up and the guy says, well,
what you know, what were youdoing up in Canada? So I
spoke up at the Saint Catharine's Witchcraftand Voodoo Festival, and he got quiet
and he looked at me. AndI always rolled down both windows, you
know, just let them make sureyou know everything is open. You want

(01:37:41):
to look at anything, you'd goright ahead. He's set the day in
the back seats. He felt itin. He looks at me, looks
in the back, looks at me, looks in the back, looks at
me, and he says, areyou bringing anything with you? I go,
yeah, the door prize. Henever took my license, he never

(01:38:02):
took my ID. He should havea nice day. I'm telling you,
they get distracted as soon as youtell them what you're doing. I did
a private I have a couple ofclients in Ontario, and I did a
party years back at one of theirhouses, and coming back, it was
so, what were you doing inyou know, Canada? Oh, I

(01:38:23):
just I had you know, Iwas working today and he's like, oh,
and he's checking my stuff and he'slike, work, So what do
you do? And I said,oh, I just did a house party.
And he looked at me, goes, well, what kind of house
party? You probably thought it was, like, you know, not going
to be appropriate or something, andI looked at him. I said,

(01:38:44):
well, I'm a medium. Idid a reading party to night and he
went what. So, before youknow it, I'm at the border having
this conversation with the officer and hegoes really so fasty that he started telling
me about his childhood and how hehad experienced before I left. He wanted

(01:39:05):
my card, like, that's it. That's exactly I was. I was.
I was crossing over into Detroit andI had a guy and he was
an eager beaver. I could seehim. He was opening up everybody's trunks
and stuff. And I said,ah, you know, I don't care,
so I'm telling him what I'm doing, and he like stops. He
goes, wait a minute, isn'tthat the one that's it's in flint right,

(01:39:27):
You're gonna be going with that one? And I said yeah, And
I went and I gave him mycard and I said listen, I said,
if you want to come, I'llleave two tickets for you at the
door. I get comp tickets.I'll give you two tickets. He goes,
you would do that? I said, well yeah, I said,
I get him. I'm only me. I get I get you know,
X amount of tickets. He wasearly the next day with his wife,
so that was pretty that was reallycool. He goes, well, this

(01:39:48):
is really neat. This is great. You know. I had I had
a couple coming at that up thatcrossed over up at Su Saint Marie and
they came. They came to theconup there, and he looked at me
and he goes, who do youknow that's you know, on the US,
that's that's at the border. Isaid nobody. He goes, we're
crossing. And they asked us whatwe're doing. So we said, we're

(01:40:11):
going to this con and the wholething. The guy looked at him and
said, you know Tim Shaw cool, and he goes, uh, well
yeah, I kind of do youknow? I know? Oh yeah,
really I saw him on TV nottoo long and I don't know how he
remembered it or whether I don't evenknow how he pulled that name out,
but he they came in, theywere like, holy crap, we're gonna

(01:40:33):
use your name every time we getin trouble at the border. I said,
no, don't do that. You'rehanging out with the darkness there.
Please please. That's like, that'slike, that's right up there. Was
working with you know, my my, my buddy there, you know,
mister Osborne, and uh, youknow, I love his energy. I'm

(01:40:59):
gonna tell you what. He's thereal thing. He's a real reals and
stuff. And I loved working withhim. And I've known Katrina, you
know, Katrina Weedman for many years, but I actually got a chance to
meet him and uh, and weworked three times with them. Yeah,
and the best, the best wasthe last time. We're driving back to
the hotel. The PA says tome, Hey, you want to you
want to drive with Jack? SoI want to drive with Jack. What

(01:41:23):
do you think I've gotta drive withwith you? And I could drive with
Jack. I'm going with Jack,so you know, we're going back and
he goes, hey, Tim,he goes, you you live in the
snow belt. He goes, whatkind of a snowblower? We're talking about
snowblowers. I'm talking about I'm talkingwith Jack Osborne. He wants to know
kind of snowblower I own. It'slike, this is surreal, you know.
I want to talk about something crazyparents or something. Snowblowers. No

(01:41:45):
snowblowers. The CEO of his productioncompanies in the backseat. They're talking travel
channel politics, you know, andhow everything works. And it was it
was an education, but it washysterical because this but this is this is
how you kind of you don't getpeople. Yeah, and people don't realize
that, you know. But that'sthat's the fun of it. And you

(01:42:05):
know, and you get great stories. You know, the road stories are
the best. Well, look atlook at poor Mike. All of a
sudden, But let me tell youguys, Christie and Mike were up.
We're up in sue Saint Marie.I said, come on, Christy,
Christie throw through her purse and Mikeand I dragged poor Chrissie around, Christie
around, introduced me and knee ye, come on, let's go, and

(01:42:26):
limp and I got her, comeon, come on, let's go.
We talked to one person. Igrab her. That's it off. Come
on, let's go. He didheybody arm But it was awesome, Mike.
The best the best one was,Oh, this is what I get.
I wanted to take class, andit's so loud. I take it.

(01:42:49):
I went to Christie. Christie,don't worry about it. You know
what, I'll make arrangements. Youcan be my assistant. I have to.
And then and then Christie is there, and I said, guess he's
running the seance. Christie, shehad a little bit and then the table.

(01:43:12):
Yeah, but you know, II you know she did, Yeah,
she listened to what I have toldher and she did well. You
know, the table is the tabledid? That table had some vib that
was kind of crazy. Even Iwas shocked. I was kind of shocked
at that. I didn't think thatwas gonna happen. When you when you
do stuff like that, that's sofun of it. You gotta make it

(01:43:33):
fun, you know, because itgets to be work, you know,
and they don't want it to bework. I mean, I'm just I'm
coming off like three to four thingsa week, uh for like I think
four weeks, five weeks, andthe prep for this stuff is so for
me is intensive because I have I'mtaking my stuff with me, you know,

(01:43:57):
taking the seance stuff. I'm takingthe uh the Victorian stuff. I'm
taking haunted objects. We did aVictorian seance up at Paranormalodities that we catered.
We actually, you know, wehad we had food, and then
we we had the seance and thenwe broke up into uh uh we did
table tipping and stuff. Uh andwe just said, as a matter of

(01:44:19):
fact, one okay. But andthen just Saturday we did Yeah. I
don't want to even think about nextyear yet. I've I've already booked,
I already signed a couple of contracts. I'm already booked for a couple of
things. But I don't want tothink that far ahead. But uh,

(01:44:40):
we up at Dragonfly, uh Artand Soul, we just did them what
I call the modern seance. Soit's it's not as formal I mean the
other one. I mean I dressedup, I mean I had the you
know, the whole kid on.Everybody was wearing black Joe Joe Piari was
was serving people, you know,dinner, you know, and everything I
cooked, you know, all theroast pi roast beef and potatoes and vegetables

(01:45:01):
and baked ZD and you know,you know Nancy make cupcase for dessert and
stuff, so I mean we youknow, so we made it special and
that's what they were like. Andthis one was a lot more smooth,
you know, streamlined. You know, we weren't you know, nobody had
to dress up or anything, butI mean we did, we did.
We started it off with table tipping, and then we went into the seance.

(01:45:27):
No, we went table tipping,and then I showed we were doing
spoon bending, so we had done. And then I'd say almost everybody was
able to do it, and uh, mine kept snapping. They just kept
snapping on me. But other peoplethey were actually able to bend them to
get at least at least that initialbend in. And then we went into
the seance. So uh, youknow, I mean it's fun to do,

(01:45:51):
but it's labor intensive because you haveto make sure you get everything packed
and then you get a home andread and unpack it. And I have
extra tables with me at all times, you know, for these for these
things. And you know, allmy and the seance gear, I mean,
you know, trumpets and and uhand oh and I did something that
I love. I did the Idid the chalk, you know, the

(01:46:14):
the at the slates, the oldslates that they used to have. They
used to put two slates together,put the chalk in there, and then
but I I modernize it. Iused explain that I'm not familiar with that.
Well, you know, precipitated likewriting and painting and all that.
Uh what what what what you woulddo is you would take two slates and
put either chalk dust or chalk inthere, and then put them together either
time or the rubber band. Putthem in a black like a little black

(01:46:38):
sack, and you leave them onthe table. A lot of times they
put them under the medium's share,but I never like. I don't like
that because it's out of sight.Put them on the table, and then
what happens is uh usually uh ifit's strong and if it's strong enough,
there will be like a word orsomething in there, and uh you know
when you open it up. Butthere's a modern way that Steve Grinner showed

(01:46:59):
me. Uh he uses an etcha sketch. So what I do is
I took the etch a sketch andI put a little blanket on there,
and I put the etch a sketchon there to see if we could at
least get a line or something.So those are I mean, those are
fun things that you can do,you know, and I, oh,
it's just Sarah. I went wheredid I get it? Seven dollars on
eBay? You know, I boughta used one. And you know,

(01:47:23):
I'll be honest with Sometimes it works. You know, I've cow tipped.
Cow tipping is more fun. Hewas involved. Yeah, guys, get
out of in my younger days,let me tell you. But yeah,
I mean, but you know,so, I mean, Uh, what

(01:47:45):
I try to do every year isI try to develop two new talks or
classes and talk. My two thatI worked on was, uh was Victorian
Morning Rituals, which the reason Idid that is because I have an intensive
interest in it. But its alot of places won't book you if it's

(01:48:06):
just psychic or like Haunted Buffalo orwhatever. They don't they won't book you
because they don't want that type ofentertainment in their organization. They won't.
I've had I've had that happened.I've had people say to me, we'd
love to have you come in,but your subject matter isn't what we need

(01:48:26):
is not you know, meet ourcriteria or we don't want to we don't
want to take the chance of alienatingour members or whatever, you know.
And I understand that. So Idevelop that I and I do have a
I have a pretty I have apretty good collection. You guys see a
lot of it on Facebook when Iget it, and uh, you know,
so I packed that up and Ibring that out there and I have
a power point with it and wetalk about different things. And I did

(01:48:49):
about cleansing because I had this wassomething that happened, and some negative stuff
happened, and not to me,but these some people out and did some
things that I wake up on aSunday morning and get a book in my
messenger, my Facebook messenger about allthis stuff that you know, they would
go out and they would amp upstuff with amp up. And you guys

(01:49:10):
know that you know cleansing, andwhen you do a cleansing, three things
can happen. You can stay thesame, it can lesson, or it
can amp up. It's one ofthose three things, and both of them
amped up. So I decided thatI would go and kind of put out
a general cleansing class that went alittle bit more in depth, where you

(01:49:30):
know, because I use you know, you know, because all the modalities
I've studied I do. I useeverything from spraying ammonia in the rooms,
which is a Centauria thing, becauseit's all part of the wash. Washing
the floor, is washing the walls. You can use ammonia because ammonia dissipates
whatever is negative in there. Andthen you read, you know, then
of course you go and you eitheryou smudge it or you spray it down

(01:49:55):
with holy water or you spray itwith with Florida water or whatever. You
know. It's a little bit differentthan I work with graveyard dirt. Of
course, that's something that I'm knownfor. I work with. Explain now,
so what is what's the significance inthat a graveyard dirt? Because what
you want to do is you wantto be able to have spirits on the

(01:50:17):
other side awaken, to go andclear what's going on. And what you
do with it is you take andof course you can do the you can
do the opposite too. And theyalways say you should get a Sicilian mother
or a Yenta, a Jewish motherbecause they like to fight and they'll fight
for you. And that's what that'sthat's what they say. That's the type.

(01:50:39):
Or else if you go with theNew Orleans voodoo style, you take
um, you take dirt from sevengraves and you take you take the dirt
from seven graves and you mix itup. You know, you can do
that. And then what you dois you just take a little bit,
you know, sprinkle it in thefour owners of every room and that that

(01:51:00):
works as a protector. And youcan do the same thing with salt.
You can do the same thing,like I use black salt or whatever.
But I mean, this is all. This is all stuff that I wanted
to go and show people. Andthen I wanted to show them that.
Listen, you know, you gotto watch Sage because Sage, if you
get the wrong audience, can beaccused of being culturally appropriated, you know

(01:51:23):
what I mean. And you knowyou have to watch that. So there's
I wanted to show them that therewere other things and it didn't make it.
Listen. You know, if Ihave somebody that's a Roman, Catholic
or a Christian, I use frankincense, I use other different things. You
know, I make my own up. You know, they're like bug,
I call them. I call themlike exactly, I use bug bombs.

(01:51:43):
Period. That's what I call thembug bombs. I make my own out
of you know, out of theseout of out of some different herbs from
from some family, some of theVoodoo family sources. But I mean,
people don't realize that, and Iwanted to show them. And also people
don't want smoke in their house.So how to make how to make uh
like you know, I'll use likeblack op city in or whatever and put

(01:52:04):
it in put it in just holywater, and I will use that and
spray every room with it. AndI wanted to show people that. And
oh the best one was sound Ibecause I have of course I have a
singing bowl. But I went onagain wish dot com. I bought this
little tiny this little tiny little Idon't even know what they call them.

(01:52:25):
It's like you hit, you hitthese little tubes and they make like the
really nice sound. Yeah that's likea little zyl but a little mini one.
About that thing. It's real small. It's like again five six bucks.
I bought it on side. Youknow, it took like eight months
to get. But the idea isthat I want it. You gotta wish
for it. Yeah, I reallywish that that packing crate would actually get

(01:52:46):
here. But you can use thisto clear the rooms. You use this
to fill the sound exactly, andsound will go and push all this negativity
out and bring beauty in and loveand joy. And that's what I wanted
to do it. I wanted toshow that people that there's something different,
because the problem is is that somany people only know one thing. And

(01:53:06):
back in like the early seventies,late sixties, when the New Age movement
was really starting to take effect,they were using a lot of things that
you know, Western Native American cultureswere using and uh, you know they
were they were using and it justgot appropriated. I mean, it just
kept going on and on and on, and people never really understood that you

(01:53:28):
don't have to use it because originallythat was you know, using herbs for
cleansing, was actually using it onyourself to hide your scent, you know,
when we were in the hunter gathererstage. So we have to look
at it like that, you know. And it was funny because when I
when I first taught it, thefirst time I taught it, guess guess

(01:53:49):
where I taught it. You know, you know, I have no fear,
you know, you know, upin Michigan. They're like, oh,
we gotta we gotta move your room. What do you mean you gotta
move your room? We were onlyset up for fifty You got set in
the crap, you know. Butyou know, uh, I wanted to
go and show people that there areso much there's so many other ways of
doing things, and I mean,you can, you can go and I

(01:54:11):
have, you know, I haveyou know, all the Latin, Christian,
Roman, Catholic prayers. I havedifferent prayers from different denominations. I
have all the different little things thatI use, uh in just a case.
And I want to show people thatthis is you can do this.
You know, you can go andtry different things. If one thing doesn't
work, try something else. It'sas simple as it can be, as

(01:54:35):
simple as going and turning the electricityoff in the house so that if there's
frequency or vibration or whatever this is, doesn't go and hide in the household
wires. And you can do yourthing and you know, do this cleansing
and just push this energy out oryou know, you can. You can

(01:54:58):
make it as simple or as ritualisticas want. And you know, people
came up to me afterwards and said, wow, we never, we never
thought of this stuff. We're youknow. And the reason again we go
right back to sort of in thecircle. Uh, the reason I know
about it is because I've worked withall these different people who have used this
stuff to positive effects. And theother thing I told them is this,

(01:55:19):
you have to be available. Youcan't go and take in people get paid
for this. I don't get paidfor clearings. I just don't. I
just that I can't do it.But you know what I mean, You
know there are certain things that youget paid for, certain things you don't
right, and I won't because youhave to be available to these people.
You can't go and just leave themhanging. You can't. You can't leave

(01:55:43):
people hanging. You've got to beable to go and be able to be
available for these things. I justhad somebody to kind of get mad at
me because it's like, you've gotto come to my house. Well,
first of if, I don't gotto do anything, I'm retired. I
don't have to do anything. Butsecond of all, it's like, no,
listen, I'll tell you what todo, but I'm not come to
your house because I don't have to. I can't take another case on my
schedule is you don't you guys knowwhat my schedules like. And then add

(01:56:08):
and I do have some open casesyou know that I'm working on and I
don't want to go and I don'twant to go and do a disservice.
Well that's just that. It's aboutknowing your boundaries too. You know,
you have to preserve your own energyand practice your own self care so you
can do what you need to doand help out. You know what.
The first thing I taught them,I said, Okay, everybody, I
go like this, children, listento me. Now, everybody say no,

(01:56:30):
no, okay, Now, thisis what you can say to people
that ask you to do something thatyou don't want to do. Yeah,
you know, and people were justlike I had a psychoanalyst come up to
me and say, you're you're doingexactly right the way you're treating your clients,
because I don't my clients. Idon't believe a freaking thing a client
tells me. I don't believe anything. It has to happen to me for

(01:56:50):
me to believe it. I'm notdoubting that something has happened, right.
But they can go and miss theycan misinterpret what can happen, so they're
not. And I always tell themI don't want to. I don't believe
it. I don't believe everything theytell me. They're not my friends.
I don't make friends out of thesepeople. I don't socialize with them if
I see them at an event,Hey, how are you guys doing?
What's going on? Listen? I'mnot gonna go sit at the bar with

(01:57:12):
you. This is not the wayit works. You have to you have
to have that separation. And thepsychoanalyst therapist came up to me afterwards and
she says, you know, Iwas kind of worried about what you were
going to say in the class andshe goes, wow, she goes,
you you hit. You hit everymajor point about being you know, about
you know, being of service tothese people rather than doing it as a

(01:57:34):
friend or whatever. And I thoughtI took that as a really high compliment.
You know, that's something. Butpeople don't get that. People don't
realize that. Now they don't,you know, Yeah, that's wonderful.
You can't poke the bear and thenwalk right away from him. But well,
but that's the other thing. Whatthe freak is wrong with people?
Oh yeah? Oh well, youknow, we we you know, we

(01:57:56):
we decided to have a seance.We ever have a seance before? No?
Yeah, what is wrong with whywould you do that? Right?
What is wrong with you? Well? We saw it on TV? It
look cool? What is wrong withyou? Yeah? You know? Oh
I read it in this book?What book? Oh do you mean that
one that was uh, the onethat caused more problems than anything else.

(01:58:19):
You know, it's like, youdon't know, I got a dummies book.
It works pretty good. And Istated, you know that lesson number
one. You know, we won'tget in trouble with saying you know,
and but you know, so,I mean, you have to work.
You have to go and you haveto you know, really understand and work
with it. And it takes timeand you have to you know, you

(01:58:40):
have to ask the right questions andyou have to do a study on it,
and you have to really make surethat these people are sincere and they're
not you know whatever. And Imean, and the problem is is I've
had there was there was there wassome people and I again I'm not going
to get into who they were becauseI know Christy, you know everybody in
this area. So I mean it'ssomebody and are like, oh, look
at that. There's there's a there'sa cross face in the basement going or

(01:59:03):
anything the rest of the house.There's a demon in there. Uh,
you know. And and the otherthing is is you have to know your
symbols. So somebody draw, Ohthe guy went into a trance and and
spray painted a pentagram on the wall. We'll hawk them and that's evil.
Well hawcome, that's the point ofthe If the point is up, that's
the seal of Solomon. That's athat's protection. You know. You have

(01:59:27):
to know what everything means. Youhave to know what these glyphs mean.
You have to study a lot ofthe African glyphs. You have to under
you have to understand, you haveto understand whatever all this stuff is.
And people don't get that. Peopleautomatically assume that this is negative, this
is evil, this is this,this is a and you have to go
and then after you do your initialwork, then you have to go.
You have to re educate the clientso that they're not crazy. You know

(01:59:49):
that, you know, crazy andsaying that something's going to happen to them,
and the retribution or and if somethingdoes happen you know, something the
cat knocks something off the off ashelf. They don't see the cat doing
it all of a sudden, Nowthey're going to assume. So now you
have to re educate them into becomecalmer people and explain to them that the

(02:00:12):
calmer they are, the less thishappens. And you know what I mean,
it all goes into is it aPoulter Guy's case, is it a
human targeted Poulter Guy's case? Isit a parasitical spirit? Is it an
addiction spirit? You have to beable to go and figure all this stuff
out in order to go and workwith this. It's like, you know,
for every for every spirit, there'syou know, for every problem,
there's a reason for it. Soyou know, you know all gee,

(02:00:34):
uh, you know, you knowis that Uncle Joe? Oh, uncle
Joe? Is you know Uncle uncleJoe? Just do you like to nip
a lot? You know he's stillhere? So yes, what you know?
Yeah, oh, why did youhave this feeling that do you want
to drink a lot? For someunknown reason? Let's talk about that.
And I mean, and again thisis this is all stuff that we have

(02:00:54):
to you know, and then youhave to then you have to you know,
figure out of course, you know, if there's addict you know,
if there's addiction in the family orwhatever. You know, yeah, possession.
And the people don't like it whenyou have to talk and they're like,
you know, we've been on thephone for over an hour, or
we've been on this meeting for overan hour, and it's like, yeah,
we have more questions, and youknow, we have to do it
the way we have to do it. And if you don't like it,

(02:01:15):
and again, you don't want toand you don't you don't want to walk
into a situation where all of asudden the person will turn around. I
remember Jason Hawes telling me that theywere in the house and the woman was
really nice, and all of asudden, this woman came out of that
I don't know if she had ashotgun or a knife or something, came
out and said, what are youdoing in my house? You know,
Oh my god. And they're doingan investigation. And I mean, this
is a this is an example ofwhy you need to be so careful and

(02:01:38):
a lot of parent and that's theproblem. A lot of paranormal investigators just
jump at this, Oh we gota residential. Everybody runs. It's like,
uh, why don't we do alittle research in this first? Why
don't we talk to these people firston the phone before we show up,
you know, And a lot ofpeople that yeah, unfortunately, that's generally
where my oh this is not agood run. Or hey they just want

(02:01:59):
to get on TV with their houseand you know, or they wanted I've
had them where they wanted to getout of leases. They wanted me to
say that there that the apartment waswas haunted. They wanted to get out
of their lease. I've had thathappen. I've had that happen, and
when I wouldn't do it, theygot pissed off. So I mean it's
like it's just one Yeah, hey, that's what it is. Dude.

(02:02:20):
I just realized it's ten ten.I know. We always can just keep
going because three of us and wejust do what we do. It's what
we do best. I got Christy, I got Christie here, and don't
got Mike here. So when we'redone, I'm just gonna be like this,
what do you think? Oh?I had these on mute for an

(02:02:44):
hour, started a show. Um, sim where can everybody find you?
You guys can find me right onFacebook. You can go to my website
www dot Timothy t. Shaw dotcom and uh, you usually on Thursday
nights this month or last month,and the beginning of this month has been
like kind of hilaious, So Ihaven't been able to get a regular show

(02:03:05):
up. But Tuesday night at seveno'clock on Facebook, you can find me
at the Black Cat Lounge. We'reon The audio is on Spotify. You
can find us there, and youcan find us on YouTube and you'll see
me speaking in teaching classes that everythingfrom Haunted locations to bar Mitzvah's Wow,

(02:03:28):
I don't discriminate. Okay, thattakes care of half. Yeah, so
I mean, but he also,uh, you know what I mean.
You guys can see me on youguys can see some of my work,
some of my work on my Strangework portals to Hell, the Haunted,

(02:03:51):
ghost Hunters. Trying to think whatelse I've been on? No Google,
man, You're gonna Google. You'llfind you'll find but most of them are
on Discovery Plus you cannot find it, you know. Yeah, and I
and I got it. And rightnow I gotta finish. I gotta finish
a book before my sir, I'mhoping to finish a book before my surgery
so I can do my editing whilei'm while I'm down for a few weeks.

(02:04:13):
Okay, Well, we wish youthe best with as good I love
you, yes, and thank youfor short. I got some of my
questions answered. We got Chris lowsnot bubbles. I did not blow a
snap all. It was like this. It was like this, and it
was like coming down. It waslike coming down. It was like it

(02:04:36):
looked like a tear drop. Itlooked a tear drop. That's why I
was asking you if that happened duringan exorcism. You know that was what
was going on tonight. All right, Tim's gonna go. Can you guys,

(02:04:57):
Can you guys all know that.Can the audience know that we like
like each other? We're coming,is the man? Yes, Nancy,
I definitely thank you. Good night. Yes, we could have gone all

(02:05:19):
night long. Oh my god,but unfortunately I just realized what time it
was and so I lost him there. Uh, guys, we appreciate it.
We will be back. We're goingto have a set schedule coming up
very soon. Christy and I justgot to knock out some solid dates.

(02:05:40):
You know. Uh man, youappreciate all you guys, you know,
yes, thanks everybody for watching tonightand always supporting us. And eventually I'll
get the banners spun around. Righttonight, I don't know what happened there,
but again, thank He's like toshare subscribe really, if you guys
can share the word for our YouTubechannel, that would be awesome. Where's

(02:06:04):
my sage YouTube channel? I knowa lot of you guys are the Bigfoot
community. Come over for tactical Bigfoot. But if I can get everybody moved
over and migrated over, it's goingto be a lot easier run channel.
We went from eight, we're downto three. Now we'll have one other
outlet coming out soon. We gottaget with our other guy. But tell

(02:06:25):
your friends and family please spread theword, get us out there. So
yeah, you good. Yeah,I'm just stumbling on my word alright,
everybody breaking my great knee high likeyou know, Radar there, you know,
and I still break in everything tonight. I still can't even get
the stuff to download. Telling youall right, well, everybody have a

(02:06:46):
wonderful week and keep your eyes openfrom the next show in a couple of
weeks. So until then, staysafe and sample on. Where's my button?
There it is my father, myfather, Las