January 5, 2025 • 37 mins
Which Murderer Flashback Episode!
In Season 3 Episode 14 –1970’s Murder – Gemma covers ‘Bad Man’ Randy Kraft while Holly tells you all about Robert John Maudsley who we might like a little?
Shoutouts for some lovely iTunes reviewers including ‘Canadian Danni and Super Husband Clive’
In this episode Gemma goes and ruins Holly’s favourite pasta, Holly gives some amazing Serial Killer pro tips, three entire adults fail to math, we conclude that 12 kids is too many kids and there are no pet budgies allowed in prison.
Production, recording and post production completed by Producer Craig who does not have a pet budgie but does have a bumblebee he’s named ‘Bumbledore’.
Gemma mostly edited this week. All complaints should be sent to Producer Craig who is putting cream on all of Bumbledore’s kisses. They have a complicated relationship.
www.whichmurderer.com
WARNING - Explicit language, content and themes (plus whatever else will cover us legally). All opinions stated are our own and case information was gathered from legitimate sources within the public realm.
Pre-recorded in Scotland
In Season 3 Episode 14 –1970’s Murder – Gemma covers ‘Bad Man’ Randy Kraft while Holly tells you all about Robert John Maudsley who we might like a little?
Shoutouts for some lovely iTunes reviewers including ‘Canadian Danni and Super Husband Clive’
In this episode Gemma goes and ruins Holly’s favourite pasta, Holly gives some amazing Serial Killer pro tips, three entire adults fail to math, we conclude that 12 kids is too many kids and there are no pet budgies allowed in prison.
Production, recording and post production completed by Producer Craig who does not have a pet budgie but does have a bumblebee he’s named ‘Bumbledore’.
Gemma mostly edited this week. All complaints should be sent to Producer Craig who is putting cream on all of Bumbledore’s kisses. They have a complicated relationship.
www.whichmurderer.com
WARNING - Explicit language, content and themes (plus whatever else will cover us legally). All opinions stated are our own and case information was gathered from legitimate sources within the public realm.
Pre-recorded in Scotland
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Go if you like. Hell, Holly, Hi, Gamma. How's it
going so good? Yeah? Yeah good? Guess what today is?
What's today? The day that I got to book SPA appointments.
(00:31):
I've booked two massages. Oh my really yes, one is
tomorrow morning, oh nice, and then one is next week.
Oh really good. I have my double book myself. No,
I don't like I have. And my nail lady came
back and said that the appointments are starting to open
up for September first, okay, but she might be able
to get me in sooner, just depends. But I went
online and I booked September through November all my appointments.
(00:54):
Oh my gosh. I was like, I am not missing
on anything.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
So excited, so happy. I got my ibors backs yesterday
and I was very very happy.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
I need it. I need them threaded.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
And yeah, maybe over sharing. But I got some IPL
done today as well, so did you. Yeah, so it's
all going in the right direction for people that are
needing beauty treatmenters. We are a much murderer, we are,
and we've got a few shout outs that we want
to do before we jump into our cases. So we've
(01:26):
got a few new reviews five star reviews from iTunes,
which is lovely. Our first one is from a person
called dogs out, that's a hilarious user name dogs saying,
I've just read this again. I kind of forgot what
it was saying. So it's like, I love Holly Gemma
and of course producer Craig a very entertaining and well done.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Thank you very much. That's really kind of you.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Give the producer Greig a bit of a big head.
He just he just sent a kiss towards so happy.
Now he's so happy. And we got another review, and
I know who this is from. This is from my
friend Danny. She's another Canadian that I work with, and
just they're drawn to me like magnets, I think. And
she said thank you for making her and her husband's
(02:13):
road trip fly by. And she said this before in
the past about how we gel so well. I think
she really enjoys listening to us. So thank you so much, Danny.
I really appreciate you listening, Danny, and I hope you
enjoyed your Canadian food. Oh and thanks Clive as well,
because he was listening to us too. He was the
one that actually requested our podcast when they were on
the road trip.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Was it?
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Danny asked him would you want to listen to and
he said, let's listen to Jem's podcasts.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Bonus point. I know, thanks live, that's awesome and might
it's not really a shout out, but we are now
being distributed on Geo, saven j Io, SAA v N
because I'm probably saying it wrong, which is like, I
don't know, I guess it's like an Indian equivalent to Spotify.
That's so cool. Yeah, it's really cool. So you can
(03:00):
pick us up in India now, yeah, bring all the
Indian followers to us, yes, please. So what are you
talking about today?
Speaker 2 (03:08):
We are talking about nineteen seventies murders, Yes, we are,
because the seventies were just full of murder.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
It was so murdery. There was so many to pick from. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
I really thought that i'd picked one that didn't have
a ridiculous amount of content, and then I started researching
and I was like, oh, there's so much here.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
We did have a mild panic because I was like,
oh god, one of mine is so long. Yeah, but
it wasn't this one, Thank goodness. I know, I know.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
So I'm going to jump in quickly because it's going
to take a while. So this is the tale of
a gentleman called He's not a gentleman, really, this is
a tale of a bad man called Randy Craft.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Oh I know this. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Also that name, I don't know what it is Randy
to me, you know, it's a bit of a strange
first name anyway. Yeah, and then Craft reminds me both
of macaroni and being crafty.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Yeah. I don't run macaroni for me, man.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Sorry, oh dear, Okay, So I got all of this
from Wikipedia. Col Randy was born in Long Beach, California,
on the nineteenth of March nineteen forty five. He had
three older sisters, and he was the youngest.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
And only son.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Both of his parents worked scraping enough to get by.
His father didn't really seem to be invested in the family.
He spent very little time with them, but Randy was
spoiled both by his mother and his sisters.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
I can imagine. Yeah, he's like the youngest and the
only boy. Yeah. He was known to be smart.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Yet clumsy, and he frequently injured himself. And I was like, hmm,
I wonder if there was a possible head injury in
there a few Yeah. By his teenage years, he had
a sight set on becoming a politician, and he was
a proud republic looking party follower.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
At this time.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
And also at this age he started questioning the sexuality too.
He found himself more attracked to other men. He attended
Claremont College after graduating high school and studied for bachelors
and economics. At college, he attended demonstrations in support for
the Vietnam War. However, after a few years at college,
(05:23):
his conservative views were diminishing and he became more liberal,
stating that he essentially followed his parents' political beliefs when
he was younger.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
I think that's typical. I think that is.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
I think he grew up and you adapt and you
can sometimes change your views, but most of the time, it's.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
Really just what you're raised on, isn't it. He would
later go on to register as a Democrat, and he
campaigned for John F. Kennedy.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Okay, so it was around this time during college that
he started dating men. He brought a few of these friends,
as he called them, home to meet his family, although
he never really disclosed the entirety of their relationships. He
was arrested in nineteen sixty six were attempting to proposition
an undercover police officer. So I wonder if maybe it
(06:10):
was still illegal in nineteen sixty six to do that.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
I don't know if it was illegal. It was probably
the prostitution that he was done for.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
In the end, they actually never charged him. He didn't
have a criminal record at that point, so they just
sort of brought him in, gave him a warning, and
then maybe it wasn't even a lawful arrest. You know.
His last years at college were mostly filled with partying
and taking drugs, resulting in Randy graduating half a year
later in nineteen sixty eight. After college, he joined the
(06:44):
Air Force. He attended basic training in Texas. However, his
secret about sexuality was weighing heavily on him, and he
told his family that he was gay.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
His family did accept him.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
His father did react in an angry way initially, you know,
grew to accept him. Randy then told his supervising officers
in the Air Force, but that didn't go well.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
It would not not in the sixties and now I
think he would probably struggle in some areas.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Yeah, And he was discharged due to medical reasons.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
That's what his discharge was. Yeah, wow, okay.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
This anger Randy, and he tried to challenge the decision,
but it wasn't successful. He wasn't going to get anywhere
with that. I'm on Randy's side for that one, yes,
I know. A year after his discharge from the military,
Randy committed his first non sexual assault. He met a
fourteen year old on the beach who said he had
ran away from home. Randy persuaded him to go to
(07:44):
his apartment, saying that he could live with him when
they are Randy drugged and raped the boy, and he
then left him in the apartment to go to work
as a bartender. The boy was able to get himself
out of the apartment, where he was seen by neighbors
and an ambulance was called because he was still really
loopy from the drugs. At the hospital, the boy didn't
(08:06):
disclose the rape, saying that Randy just drugged him and
physically beat him up.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Did he know that he was raped though, if he
was drugged, I mean would mean he would have.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Maybe he didn't, but I don't know how they would
then know it was a sexual assault. Maybe he sort
of came out and said afterwards. Maybe I think he
was assaulted enough that there were injuries and no charges
were filed because the boy said he took the pills voluntarily,
(08:36):
and I think the police just wanted to sort of
wipe their hands off it.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
It's hard to prosecute that. Yeah, if you're saying that
I took this willingly, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Randy then moved on from sexual assault to murder in
nineteen seventy one. His first murder was not attributed to
him until after he was caught and his journals were found.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Never Keep it Dire Well.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
He called it his scorecard, and this was the first
entry on the scorecard, which was basically just an entry
that said the stable and this was the last known location.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
Of Wayne de Kett.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
So the stable was a gay bar and he was
last seen there on the twentieth of September. His body
was found a few weeks later, washed up on the shore,
and I think initially they thought that it was natural causes,
but because of the entry here and it's sort of
tied up there, thinking actually, this is probably his first victim.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
Right, Okay.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Over a year later was when Randy killed again. So
there was a long period between the first and the
second murder. He targeted a twenty year old marine called
Edward Moore when he was leaving his barracks. Appears that
Edward was kidnapped by Randy. He was tied up and tortured.
He had multiple bite marks over his body, and he
(09:59):
had been beating about the head extensively, and he had
a sock shoved into his rectum.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
I assume that was rage at the military. Do you know.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
There's actually quite a few military victims, And I think
that was a plan of him, sort of. I think
he targeted these either because he was attracted to that
type of person or as you say, it was that
sort of rage that he had at the military, or
maybe he was just really near barracks.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
But then if they'd had those injuries, they would have
known it was murder.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
Yeah, And all his other victims ended up having them spoilers.
Let they end up having these sort of injuries, even
if they are in.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
The military or not. Okay, So maybe not okay.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
So it seems like this is what he needs to
really sort of get off for satisfying. So Edward's cause
of death was strangulation from a garrote and he was
found on the freeway two days after last being seen,
and it looked like he'd been thrown from a moving vehicle.
So that was another part of Randy's signature because a
(11:06):
lot of his victims were found on the freeway and
he was known as a freeway killer right as well.
The falling victim after that had his penis and testicles
removed before death, and also had been raped before death.
Three more men died before the end of nineteen seventy three.
All were subjected to torture, some had been mutilated as well.
(11:31):
In nineteen seventy four, Randy continued killing. However, police were
struggling to link the killings together as not all the
bodies had the exact same signature. So some would have bitemarks,
some wouldn't, some would had foreign objects inside them, and
some wouldn't. So I think it just depended on what
Randy was feeling at the time.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
And maybe how much time he had or.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Yeah, exactly and whereabouts he was and who he was with.
That depended on what he actually did to his victim. Yeah,
So suspected of killing at least three more people in
nineteen seventy four. In nineteen seventy five, things really ramped up,
and he started really early in the year. January, the
third Wow, a seventeen year old was abducted coming off
(12:15):
of a bus. He was sexually assaulted, strangled, and his body.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
Was later found at the beach.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Two weeks later, another young man was found on the freeway,
also strangled, this time with his own shoelace. So despite
the differences in the mo O, the investigators did eventually
see that, you know, we've.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
Got a lot of young men.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Yeah, you know, around the same age that are dying here.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
If he looked at the victimology and not so much
the method of death, although the method death seems fairly consistent.
A lot of it is strangulation.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
I think there was just differences in what else had
happened later on. He seems to change a little bit,
but most of it was strangulation. And they also noted
that some of them or most of them even were
drugged beforehand too, not probably enough to sedate them, but
enough to stop them from fighting.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
So was it like GHB kind of stuff?
Speaker 2 (13:11):
Like a lot of it I think was like valium, right, Okay,
so more of a benzo so just sort of kept
them calm. Yeah, a profile was developed, stating that the
killer would be smart, organized and was killing for sexual satisfaction.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
On the twenty ninth of March.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Nineteen seventy five, Randy picked up two friends at the beach,
Keith cropt Twell and Kent May. The three men drank
some beers and Randy offered the boys some diazepam while
they were driving around in Randy's car, and the boys
accepted that, but then they began to pass out and
Randy sort of took a shine to one of them.
(13:52):
He pulled up to the beach where he had picked
them up from and pushed Kent out of the car
and then drove off with.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
Keith and Kent just bought every lattery to get in
an entire universe that day.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
He escaped with his life like by the thread wow,
you know. Or maybe it was just the fact that
he was on the side of the door maybe, or
maybe he was in the front seat.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Or something like that. I'm not entirely sure.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Yeah, no, Actually, I think that the way that it
was described was that three of them were in the
front seat, you know how some of those cars had that,
So I think that Keith was in the middle Kent
was at the side.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
Ah, Kent got pushed out. Okay. Keith was missing for months.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
His head was discovered in May and the rest of
his body was not discovered until six months later. Witnesses
had seen Randy push Kent out of the car, and
his car.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Was quite distinctive.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
It was like a Mustang, but the coloring on it
was like quite unique.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
That's another fucking thing. If you're going to do stupid shit,
don't make your car super notice. I know. I think
he can have felt invincible.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
By this point, he'd been killing for years and no
one came close to They reported this to the police,
the people that saw it, and it was actually traced
back to Randy. Randy said that he was driving around
with Keith, but the car got stuck in sand, that
he left to go and get a toe truck, and
when he returned, Keith had disappeared. The officers brought the
(15:18):
case to the DA, However, the day refused to press charges,
and at that point the corner had even stated that
Keith had died from drowning. Oh, even though at this
point only the skull had been found.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Yeah, he drowned and his head popped off. Yeah, It's like,
where's the rest of them?
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Also, how can you tell you was drowned or he
drowned without the.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Lungs just as head corner.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Yeah, I know, so he escaped that again, but it
does seem to spook Hume because he waited to the
last day of the year before killing again.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
The length of time without release resulted in his victim,
twenty two year old Mark Hall, being excessively tortured. He
had been burned all over his body. This included his eyes. No,
he had his genitalia removed and forced inside of him.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Was he alive? Yeah? Oh no.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
He was cut with broken pieces of glass and then
suffocated with leaves and dirt.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
Can we just pick our murderer now, yeah, I think
this is going to be fairly easy to choose. Good.
And this all happened while he was like tied up
to a tree. Oh, it's horrible.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
So in the new year nineteen seventy six, Randy found
a new boyfriend, nineteen year old Jeff Selig.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
So Randy was thirty one at the time.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Quite a bit of an age difference there. But because
of this new relationship, probably he didn't kill until the
end of nineteen seventy six, So that was.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
Nearly a whole year without killing. Okay, So it's back
to the beginning like when he was starting out.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Yeah, okay, and even then, there's only one murder in
nineteen seventy six and not another one for another year
and a half later. Wow, And that has been that's
on his scorecard as well, you know, and he was
quite meticulous about recording things, so he only has one
documented victim in that time until nineteen seventy eight.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
Good year, was that your birth year? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (17:17):
So he started killing again in April nineteen seventy eight,
and that's six more men in nineteen seventy eight that
he rate, tortured and mutilated most of them before strangling, suffocating,
and in one case stabbing them.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Okay. Yeah, I was gonna say he doesn't go for
a messy death. I mean, he goes for a really gross,
horrible death. Yeah, but he doesn't seem to like bloodshed.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
No, there's not really a lot of blood, but there's
one that he definitely stabbed them.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
So and he was still active from nineteen seventy eight
till nineteen eighty three.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Oh, and he killed nineteen.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
More men in the five years, and again this is
all really similar.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
In one case, he sort.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Of escalated and he killed two two cousins at the
same time, So he was on holiday in the Grand Rapids.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
And he was able to sort.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Of overpower them and was able to kill them both
at the same time. And he also started in certain
items into his victims.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
Eurethra's also oh no.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Again, most of them were suffocated or strangled. Like I
just couldn't fit all of the details. And I mean
I'm already like super over and Craig's looking at me
like look at the time, Gemma, So like.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
There's just there was just so many I can't believe
for many people he killed.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
Yeah, his last murder was a twenty five year old
marine called Terry Gambrel. He was bound and strangled to death.
And in comparison to his other victims, there wasn't that much.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
Done before that.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
He just seemed to have been like strangled and I
think actually raped. Right on the way to probably dispose
of the body. Randy was pulled over by police for
driving erratically and they found the body of Terry in
the front seat. No, yeah, the front seat underneath a blanket.
I think so that he could like pull over, kick
(19:12):
them out on the freeway, and then just drive off.
I think that's why you put them on the front seat.
So many mistakes, Yeah, although he'd been killing for like
eight years or something like that, and it was just
this mistake, this one time.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
So they arrested Randy.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Obviously, they also found blood on the floor of Randy's
boot or trunk to our American listeners, but Terry didn't
have any open wounds, so they knew that there must be, you.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
Know, another victim.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
Yeah, And in a compartment hidden in the book, they
found over fifty pictures of men who appeared to be
dead or unconscious. They also found Randy's scorecards Randy, what
are you doing with sixty one entries? And they were
able to tie into so many on sold murders and
(20:01):
it was written in sort of code. But through investigating,
they believed there's evidence of around sixty seven separate murders. Okay,
he was only charged with sixteen, but that's understandable with
sort of the evidence and things like that. They wanted
to make sure they could get the ones that they
could prove that he had done.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
We probably held back just in case. It got thrown
out too, that's it.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
Yeah, And on the sixteenth of May nineteen eighty three
he was charged with that, but his trial didn't begin
until five years later, five years, and it lasted over
six months. The jury deliberated for eleven days before finding
him guilty of all murders.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
What were they deliberating?
Speaker 2 (20:42):
I think because there's just so much evidence, of six
months worth of evidence.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
Okay, jury, let me break it down for your dead body,
weakend at Bernie right beside him. He's got pictures in
his trunk. Yeah, I don't know. And he's also like
made a little list for you. Yeah, it's right there.
The fuck were you debating? Well, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
Maybe at that time they were just like, well, we've
been at this for six months already.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Let's just sort of squeeze eleven days work here. Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
The defense team tried to convince the jury to not
sentence Randy to death because there was brain scans that
showed damage to his frontal lobe, okay, and therefore showed
that he had difficulty in controlling himself.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
However, the jury sentenced him to death. But it doesn't
I mean, I understand the frontal lobe damage one hundred percent.
I think that's tied in. But he could stop for
a year or year, a year and a half and didn't. Yeah, exactly.
So he still remains on death row to this day.
In sam Quentin.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
There's theories out there that an actual second killer worked
with them to commit a lot of his murders. However,
no one else has ever been tried. A former boyfriend,
a man called Jeff Graves, was questions extensively, but he
passed away before police could charge him with anything.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
So Randy must be in his eighties. Math has heard's
late seventies, early eighties, right, forty five? He was born eighty?
Is he eighty? Is that the math? Make the math?
Seventy five? Okay, alright, well I'm five years out. No,
that can be right.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
It's eighty five, help Craig Creigh, No as it's eighty five.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
No, Oh my gosh, I don't know. Why does math exist?
Why does math exist? There shouldn't be anything no higher
than two. I can't believe this has taken so long. Ah, Creig,
you do something that involves numbers for your job, don't you.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
He's just he's just refusing to help. I will calculate
this and get back to you after the break.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
All right, that was horrible, really good cheers. Okay, we're back.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
Before Holly jumps sudden, I am going to shamely shamely,
shamedly that's the word, shamedly say that it was seventy
five was how old.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
Randy would be in Yes, he's seventy five now. Yeah.
And also producer Craig percent told us that he wasn't
even listening to us. I know what terrible pages are.
I have a feeling that he should be listening to
us at least partly. Isn't that what you're supposed to
do is like help us when math is involved, like
it's part of visual anime because math is so hard.
(23:15):
That was baddest hard. I was bad that three adult
people could not figure out one man's age. That's all right, sorry,
let's move on. Yeah, I am talking about Robert John Maudsley. Okay.
Robert was born on the outskirts of Liverpool in June
of nineteen fifty three. He was one of twelve children.
H yeah, that's like oh, Catholic, farmly probably or just
(23:40):
I don't know, liked kids. I don't know, if anyone
likes kids that much. The second part doesn't add up.
But at six months old was placed in care as
their parents couldn't cope.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
Oh okay, well, having twelve kids do that, Yeah, helpful.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Hint, don't have twelve and you'll kill better. He went
to a Catholic orphanage written by nuns, right along with
his three siblings or five siblings, I guess says three.
And they had a wonderful life there, considered the nuns
their mothers. It was the best time of their life.
Oh my gosh. Yeah, Like the nuns were lovely to them, structure,
they were happy, you know, everything was really nice compared
(24:16):
to where they came from. Right, okay, And now he
was only a baby when he was placed there, so
he didn't have any memories of his home life. But
it was a better life there, okay. So the parents
didn't visit the orphanage for nine years, and then when
he was nine years old, they just showed up to
take their children home. You could do that, apparently, you
could do that. And they had a fifth sibling waiting
at home for them, so they tried a fifth baby
(24:38):
by that point, and then they were like, oh, Hi,
we're here for other four children. Huh So I did
try and change that to four. Oh no, it was
him and three siblings. Math fuck off, God damn it.
But wait, I thought they had twelve kids. They did
so at this point, like him and his three siblings
were put in an orphanage, so they'd only gotten up
to five at that point. Oh right, so they're struggling
(24:59):
a ready, okay, yeah, yeah. So none of the children
knew their parents, and they didn't want to go with
them because, like, they hadn't been there for nine years,
so they had no clue who these fucking people were.
But Robert was the only one who actually said it
out loud. Oh right, I don't want to go Oh right, okay, yeah.
So once home, the abuse began to happen. Gradually. Their
(25:20):
father would beat the children with his fists, belt and
sometimes sticks, but their mother would actually encourage the punishments.
Oh come on, yeah, so she would be like she
would rat them out basically to the father for every
little thing. So she would be like, oh, he did
this today, right, knowing they were going to get beaten
for it. Uh huh really twisted? Why did you think?
See in my head? I'm like, why did they want
(25:42):
their kids back?
Speaker 2 (25:43):
And I think so that they could take care of
any younger kids that came along.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Yeah. Probably that's the.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Only thing that makes sense, because you clearly don't want
your kids back.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
You hate them, you don't like children, uh huh from
the way that you're treating them. Yeah. So, within a
year of being home, Robert was play in a foster home,
but only Robert was placed in a foster home, so
clearly he was either fighting against it the most or
it was speaking out against it the most. When he
was sixteen years old, Robert ran away to London, where
he began heavily abusing drugs. He did sex work to
(26:15):
fund his addictions, and he tried to himself twice, and
he actually told the hospital staff while he was in
for trying to kill himself that he heard voices right, okay,
and those voices were telling him to kill his parents.
The voices were not far off Robert, Yeah, kind of
get it. He also later claimed to have been raped
as a child, which possible. I don't know, and I
(26:37):
don't think it would have been by his father, but
I think possibly it happened, Okay. In nineteen seventy four,
Robert picked up thirty year old John Ferrell in Woodgreen,
London for sex. They were going to have sex together. Yeah.
John reportedly showed Robert photos of children he had sexually abused,
and when Robert saw that, he went mental and attacked him. Yeah,
(26:58):
he killed amusing a Garrett. You're rot sounds better? My gosh,
our cases are following a theme here, they are. Yeah,
very strangly. Robert was arrested and declared unfit to stand
trial due to his state of mind at the time,
and he was sent to Broadmoor Hospital for the criminally Insane,
and it was recommended that he should never be released. Right.
In nineteen seventy seven, Robert and another inmate took fellow
(27:21):
patient David Francis hostage in a cell. He was a
convicted child molester, right, and over the next nine hours,
where the fuck are the guards? Questions? Questions, the two
tortured him to death over nine hours. I'm like, what
the fuck? Broadmore like, did they not do rounds? I know, well, if.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
They took them hostage, then maybe the guards knew, but
they couldn't go when no, they just left them. Oh right, okay,
Oh my gosh, that's terrible. That's really neglectful.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
Glastful, isn't it. Huh. At one point Robert ran a
spoon through David's ear and into his brain. Though, when
that was found out, Or was convicted of manslaughter for
David's death and sent to Wakefield Prison. Okay, And he
wasn't happy about that, and he made it obvious he
wanted to return to Broadmoor obviously, probably had more privileges. Obviously,
if you could torture somebody for nine hours, you've got
(28:12):
more privileges. Uh huh. So, yeah, he wasn't happy at
being in a real prison. Yeah. In nineteen seventy eight,
Robert invited another inmate named I think it was Solney Darwood,
who was in prison for the murder of his wife,
into his cell. Once there, Robert stabbed him and garroted
him to death again before hiding the body. How did
you hide a body in prison? He shoved it under
(28:33):
his trunk. Oh, not trunk bunk, So they have a trunk,
I don't know. For some reason, I was like, he
shoved it in a trunk. That didn't happen and he
didn't have one. No, he went under the bunk bed. Okay.
Robert then tried to get other inmates to visit a cell,
but they were all refused. They're like, eh, I don't
get a good vibe. I'm not going to go visit you.
(28:54):
So he got really frustrated. He started wandering the prison
wing looking for someone else to attack, like he just knew,
I want to do it. Okay. Eventually he cornered a
man named Bill Roberts. He was in there for sexually
assaulting a seven year old. He was a child molester
as well, and he attacked his head with a makeshift
dagger while smashing his head into the wall. So one
side being stabbed, the other side being smushed. Okay. Once
(29:16):
Bill was dead, Robert walked into the prison officer's room,
gave him the dagger and told him the roll call
would be two people short today. Cold. Yeah. In nineteen
eighty three, Robert was deemed too dangerous for a normal
prison cell. Yeah, So a special two room cell was
constructed in the basement of Wakefield Prison for him, oh,
where he was escorted by a minimum of four officers
(29:37):
for any movements every single time. Wow. It was kept
in strict solitary confinement with minimal comforts for twenty three
hours of every day. In two thousand and three, Robert
pled for the terms of his solitary confinement to either
be relaxed or for him to be allowed to commit
suicide by cyanide capsule. Oh, I mean nineteen eighty three
to two thousand and three. That's twenty years of solitary
(29:59):
confinement A long time. I actually, I think that's inhumane.
You might as well to death. Yeah, I think so
as well. So they didn't let him do either. He
was also denied a pet budgy, and he also asked
if he could be allowed to play boored games with
the guards, and that was denied as well. Oh I know.
I was like, oh, if there's four of them, they
(30:21):
are I know. So to make it worse, he has
a high IQ. Okay, he needs to be challenged. He
needs to be challenged and reportedly enjoys classical music, poetry,
and art. He asked to take a college course but
was denied. He does have a TV in a PlayStation
in his room. It is boring, Yeah, I kind of.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
Have twenty years of TV and PlayStation. Well it's even
more now, yeah, I suppose so.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
Yeah, it's just just really it was controversial because people
didn't think he had done something bad because he was
killing people who were child molesters and you know, wife
murderers and stuff like that, except for the first victim.
So I got most of this from the liver Boo
Echo article or actually it was an interview with Paul Maudsley,
his brother, right that Patty Sennan did in May of
(31:07):
two thousand and three. And then I also watched a
special on documentary tube dot com. Okay, no specially interesting.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
I think i'd heard about the Bob Moore incident before,
but I hadn't heard of the other murders. Yeah, although
this first victum, I know you said that you picked
him up for sex work, but yeah, you showed them
the photographs. So you showed them the photographs. I mean,
you don't have the right to take anybody's life, no
matter what they've done. But I can see where people
are coming from, and I really don't feel like that.
(31:35):
Twenty plus years nearly thirty years now, Yeah, solcial confinement
is horrendous.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
Almost forty years now, my gosh. Yeah, yeah, okay, it's bad.
I don't think that's right. I think in those thirty years, No,
because he was from eighty three, so twenty years had
to take you up to twenty. We're in twenty twenty, Gemma.
How am I being better at math than you today?
Speaker 3 (31:59):
What is?
Speaker 1 (32:00):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
I don't know what it is because I'm on holiday
from works, just like it's just like you're on holiday.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
Don't think you don't think that was good?
Speaker 2 (32:11):
Thank you, You're welcome, alrighty, Okay, So I was just
thinking they are just about how similar our cases are.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
Yeah, so they both use garts. Yeah, they both like
to torture as well. I don't think he did because
he didn't really torture the first victim. No, I didn't
torture the last victim. It was just the guy that
(32:40):
was the child molester. But I think because he had
a partner doing it with him, So.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
You think he was maybe spurred on by him, or
maybe it was a partner that was prolonging things.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
About the fet off each other. Probably a look way.
And I mean, yeah, there was torture, was worth of torture, yeah,
but I don't think that was necessary. He got nothing
out of that other than the pleasure of seeing somebody
who molested children suffer. Okay. It wasn't like a sexual
motivation or anything like that. It wasn't a compulsion to.
Speaker 2 (33:08):
Torture yeah, yeah, okay, whereas with rand de Craft, that
was what he needed, that torturous aspect, that causing pain.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
Yeah, that's what did it for him. That is what
I did it for him.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
And you know, if people have questioned whether he was
sort of wrestling both with the army discharging him one
like you mentioned earlier on, and also with his own sexuality.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
Too, yeah, I mean, he seems to be quite out,
especially with you know, those close to him. It doesn't
seem to have been that much of an issue, I know,
so don't. I don't know where things twisted for.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
Him, Yeah, because you know, he had committed relationships, yeah,
with his murders.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
So unless me and I don't know the story well
enough to say, but maybe his first sexual encounters with
male were when he was young and being abused.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
It's hard to know because there really wasn't that much
information on what could have caused us. You know, it
seemed like, apart from his dad being a bit checked out,
that he had a fairly okay childhood, a bit clumsy
perhaps a head injury front a little damage indicates that,
(34:25):
but there's no evidence of like animal torture or like
any criminal behaviors before that.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
It's a big leap. I suppose you can't really tell.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
Yeah, so I'm not entirely sure where this sort of
came from. But regardless, he was a really bad man
to meet in a dark ally if you are a
younger male, and the way that he treated them, what
he did to them.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
It was horrible. Yeah. So I'll take a spoon in
the air any day over that fucker. I mean, even
that sounds horrible, but I think I would choose yours
as well. Yeah, definitely, I'm going with mine.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
Yeah, I mean you picked mine before you even in
the middle of your speech, like I am, I'm done.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
I am not picking yours. I can't. Yeah. Yeah, usually bad. Okay,
so we're agreeing this week, we are agreeing. Cool.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
So that's the end of our episode. Thank you very
much for listening and bearing with me. I know my
case was really long, but Holly's was nice and neat,
so that made up for it. Yes, if you have
enjoyed this episode, give us a little rate and review.
On iTunes, you can also subscribe to us on iTunes
or there's Google Podcasts, there's a Spreaker, there's Spotify, and
(35:44):
saying this because Craig's created this little prompt sheet that
he's put on the tailey and he's now pointing.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
To it up on social media. You guys will see
it and it's a little back.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
Yeah and yeah, And if you have enjoyed us, you know,
tell your friends, tell your family to give us a
little lesson.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
Yes, well that would be good. And give us a
little chat on Twitter, Instagram or at which Murderer or
on Facebook. Just look us up and we have a
Facebook group as well that you can chat to us.
And maybe somebody could teach us math, yes, throwing it
out there out there that you know, can sense how
badly we're struggling and would like to really help us
(36:26):
out in life, or just you know, be available at
all times to do our math for us. Yeah, that
would be better. A little mathe expert to sit in
the corner. Yeah, would be great. Let us know. Yes,
we'll see you next week. Bye bye.
Speaker 3 (36:40):
Which Moderer is hosted by Speaker and is recorded in
a secret location in Scotland. Can find us wherever you
listen to your podcasts. Email us at which Moderer at
gmail dot com, or visit our website at which murderer
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(37:02):
can join the debate on our Facebook page and group
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theme music is Kill Me Again by Blue bend. Our
artwork was produced by Wild Creations at fiver dot com
Go if you like. Hell, Holly, Hi, Gamma. How's it
going so good? Yeah? Yeah good? Guess what today is?
What's today? The day that I got to book SPA appointments.
(00:31):
I've booked two massages. Oh my really yes, one is
tomorrow morning, oh nice, and then one is next week.
Oh really good. I have my double book myself. No,
I don't like I have. And my nail lady came
back and said that the appointments are starting to open
up for September first, okay, but she might be able
to get me in sooner, just depends. But I went
online and I booked September through November all my appointments.
(00:54):
Oh my gosh. I was like, I am not missing
on anything.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
So excited, so happy. I got my ibors backs yesterday
and I was very very happy.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
I need it. I need them threaded.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
And yeah, maybe over sharing. But I got some IPL
done today as well, so did you. Yeah, so it's
all going in the right direction for people that are
needing beauty treatmenters. We are a much murderer, we are,
and we've got a few shout outs that we want
to do before we jump into our cases. So we've
(01:26):
got a few new reviews five star reviews from iTunes,
which is lovely. Our first one is from a person
called dogs out, that's a hilarious user name dogs saying,
I've just read this again. I kind of forgot what
it was saying. So it's like, I love Holly Gemma
and of course producer Craig a very entertaining and well done.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Thank you very much. That's really kind of you.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Give the producer Greig a bit of a big head.
He just he just sent a kiss towards so happy.
Now he's so happy. And we got another review, and
I know who this is from. This is from my
friend Danny. She's another Canadian that I work with, and
just they're drawn to me like magnets, I think. And
she said thank you for making her and her husband's
(02:13):
road trip fly by. And she said this before in
the past about how we gel so well. I think
she really enjoys listening to us. So thank you so much, Danny.
I really appreciate you listening, Danny, and I hope you
enjoyed your Canadian food. Oh and thanks Clive as well,
because he was listening to us too. He was the
one that actually requested our podcast when they were on
the road trip.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Was it?
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Danny asked him would you want to listen to and
he said, let's listen to Jem's podcasts.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Bonus point. I know, thanks live, that's awesome and might
it's not really a shout out, but we are now
being distributed on Geo, saven j Io, SAA v N
because I'm probably saying it wrong, which is like, I
don't know, I guess it's like an Indian equivalent to Spotify.
That's so cool. Yeah, it's really cool. So you can
(03:00):
pick us up in India now, yeah, bring all the
Indian followers to us, yes, please. So what are you
talking about today?
Speaker 2 (03:08):
We are talking about nineteen seventies murders, Yes, we are,
because the seventies were just full of murder.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
It was so murdery. There was so many to pick from. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
I really thought that i'd picked one that didn't have
a ridiculous amount of content, and then I started researching
and I was like, oh, there's so much here.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
We did have a mild panic because I was like,
oh god, one of mine is so long. Yeah, but
it wasn't this one, Thank goodness. I know, I know.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
So I'm going to jump in quickly because it's going
to take a while. So this is the tale of
a gentleman called He's not a gentleman, really, this is
a tale of a bad man called Randy Craft.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Oh I know this. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Also that name, I don't know what it is Randy
to me, you know, it's a bit of a strange
first name anyway. Yeah, and then Craft reminds me both
of macaroni and being crafty.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Yeah. I don't run macaroni for me, man.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Sorry, oh dear, Okay, So I got all of this
from Wikipedia. Col Randy was born in Long Beach, California,
on the nineteenth of March nineteen forty five. He had
three older sisters, and he was the youngest.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
And only son.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Both of his parents worked scraping enough to get by.
His father didn't really seem to be invested in the family.
He spent very little time with them, but Randy was
spoiled both by his mother and his sisters.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
I can imagine. Yeah, he's like the youngest and the
only boy. Yeah. He was known to be smart.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Yet clumsy, and he frequently injured himself. And I was like, hmm,
I wonder if there was a possible head injury in
there a few Yeah. By his teenage years, he had
a sight set on becoming a politician, and he was
a proud republic looking party follower.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
At this time.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
And also at this age he started questioning the sexuality too.
He found himself more attracked to other men. He attended
Claremont College after graduating high school and studied for bachelors
and economics. At college, he attended demonstrations in support for
the Vietnam War. However, after a few years at college,
(05:23):
his conservative views were diminishing and he became more liberal,
stating that he essentially followed his parents' political beliefs when
he was younger.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
I think that's typical. I think that is.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
I think he grew up and you adapt and you
can sometimes change your views, but most of the time, it's.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
Really just what you're raised on, isn't it. He would
later go on to register as a Democrat, and he
campaigned for John F. Kennedy.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Okay, so it was around this time during college that
he started dating men. He brought a few of these friends,
as he called them, home to meet his family, although
he never really disclosed the entirety of their relationships. He
was arrested in nineteen sixty six were attempting to proposition
an undercover police officer. So I wonder if maybe it
(06:10):
was still illegal in nineteen sixty six to do that.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
I don't know if it was illegal. It was probably
the prostitution that he was done for.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
In the end, they actually never charged him. He didn't
have a criminal record at that point, so they just
sort of brought him in, gave him a warning, and
then maybe it wasn't even a lawful arrest. You know.
His last years at college were mostly filled with partying
and taking drugs, resulting in Randy graduating half a year
later in nineteen sixty eight. After college, he joined the
(06:44):
Air Force. He attended basic training in Texas. However, his
secret about sexuality was weighing heavily on him, and he
told his family that he was gay.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
His family did accept him.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
His father did react in an angry way initially, you know,
grew to accept him. Randy then told his supervising officers
in the Air Force, but that didn't go well.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
It would not not in the sixties and now I
think he would probably struggle in some areas.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Yeah, And he was discharged due to medical reasons.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
That's what his discharge was. Yeah, wow, okay.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
This anger Randy, and he tried to challenge the decision,
but it wasn't successful. He wasn't going to get anywhere
with that. I'm on Randy's side for that one, yes,
I know. A year after his discharge from the military,
Randy committed his first non sexual assault. He met a
fourteen year old on the beach who said he had
ran away from home. Randy persuaded him to go to
(07:44):
his apartment, saying that he could live with him when
they are Randy drugged and raped the boy, and he
then left him in the apartment to go to work
as a bartender. The boy was able to get himself
out of the apartment, where he was seen by neighbors
and an ambulance was called because he was still really
loopy from the drugs. At the hospital, the boy didn't
(08:06):
disclose the rape, saying that Randy just drugged him and
physically beat him up.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Did he know that he was raped though, if he
was drugged, I mean would mean he would have.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Maybe he didn't, but I don't know how they would
then know it was a sexual assault. Maybe he sort
of came out and said afterwards. Maybe I think he
was assaulted enough that there were injuries and no charges
were filed because the boy said he took the pills voluntarily,
(08:36):
and I think the police just wanted to sort of
wipe their hands off it.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
It's hard to prosecute that. Yeah, if you're saying that
I took this willingly, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Randy then moved on from sexual assault to murder in
nineteen seventy one. His first murder was not attributed to
him until after he was caught and his journals were found.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Never Keep it Dire Well.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
He called it his scorecard, and this was the first
entry on the scorecard, which was basically just an entry
that said the stable and this was the last known location.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
Of Wayne de Kett.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
So the stable was a gay bar and he was
last seen there on the twentieth of September. His body
was found a few weeks later, washed up on the shore,
and I think initially they thought that it was natural causes,
but because of the entry here and it's sort of
tied up there, thinking actually, this is probably his first victim.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
Right, Okay.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Over a year later was when Randy killed again. So
there was a long period between the first and the
second murder. He targeted a twenty year old marine called
Edward Moore when he was leaving his barracks. Appears that
Edward was kidnapped by Randy. He was tied up and tortured.
He had multiple bite marks over his body, and he
(09:59):
had been beating about the head extensively, and he had
a sock shoved into his rectum.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
I assume that was rage at the military. Do you know.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
There's actually quite a few military victims, And I think
that was a plan of him, sort of. I think
he targeted these either because he was attracted to that
type of person or as you say, it was that
sort of rage that he had at the military, or
maybe he was just really near barracks.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
But then if they'd had those injuries, they would have
known it was murder.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
Yeah, And all his other victims ended up having them spoilers.
Let they end up having these sort of injuries, even
if they are in.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
The military or not. Okay, So maybe not okay.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
So it seems like this is what he needs to
really sort of get off for satisfying. So Edward's cause
of death was strangulation from a garrote and he was
found on the freeway two days after last being seen,
and it looked like he'd been thrown from a moving vehicle.
So that was another part of Randy's signature because a
(11:06):
lot of his victims were found on the freeway and
he was known as a freeway killer right as well.
The falling victim after that had his penis and testicles
removed before death, and also had been raped before death.
Three more men died before the end of nineteen seventy three.
All were subjected to torture, some had been mutilated as well.
(11:31):
In nineteen seventy four, Randy continued killing. However, police were
struggling to link the killings together as not all the
bodies had the exact same signature. So some would have bitemarks,
some wouldn't, some would had foreign objects inside them, and
some wouldn't. So I think it just depended on what
Randy was feeling at the time.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
And maybe how much time he had or.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Yeah, exactly and whereabouts he was and who he was with.
That depended on what he actually did to his victim. Yeah,
So suspected of killing at least three more people in
nineteen seventy four. In nineteen seventy five, things really ramped up,
and he started really early in the year. January, the
third Wow, a seventeen year old was abducted coming off
(12:15):
of a bus. He was sexually assaulted, strangled, and his body.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
Was later found at the beach.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Two weeks later, another young man was found on the freeway,
also strangled, this time with his own shoelace. So despite
the differences in the mo O, the investigators did eventually
see that, you know, we've.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
Got a lot of young men.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Yeah, you know, around the same age that are dying here.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
If he looked at the victimology and not so much
the method of death, although the method death seems fairly consistent.
A lot of it is strangulation.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
I think there was just differences in what else had
happened later on. He seems to change a little bit,
but most of it was strangulation. And they also noted
that some of them or most of them even were
drugged beforehand too, not probably enough to sedate them, but
enough to stop them from fighting.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
So was it like GHB kind of stuff?
Speaker 2 (13:11):
Like a lot of it I think was like valium, right, Okay,
so more of a benzo so just sort of kept
them calm. Yeah, a profile was developed, stating that the
killer would be smart, organized and was killing for sexual satisfaction.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
On the twenty ninth of March.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Nineteen seventy five, Randy picked up two friends at the beach,
Keith cropt Twell and Kent May. The three men drank
some beers and Randy offered the boys some diazepam while
they were driving around in Randy's car, and the boys
accepted that, but then they began to pass out and
Randy sort of took a shine to one of them.
(13:52):
He pulled up to the beach where he had picked
them up from and pushed Kent out of the car
and then drove off with.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
Keith and Kent just bought every lattery to get in
an entire universe that day.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
He escaped with his life like by the thread wow,
you know. Or maybe it was just the fact that
he was on the side of the door maybe, or
maybe he was in the front seat.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Or something like that. I'm not entirely sure.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Yeah, no, Actually, I think that the way that it
was described was that three of them were in the
front seat, you know how some of those cars had that,
So I think that Keith was in the middle Kent
was at the side.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
Ah, Kent got pushed out. Okay. Keith was missing for months.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
His head was discovered in May and the rest of
his body was not discovered until six months later. Witnesses
had seen Randy push Kent out of the car, and
his car.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Was quite distinctive.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
It was like a Mustang, but the coloring on it
was like quite unique.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
That's another fucking thing. If you're going to do stupid shit,
don't make your car super notice. I know. I think
he can have felt invincible.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
By this point, he'd been killing for years and no
one came close to They reported this to the police,
the people that saw it, and it was actually traced
back to Randy. Randy said that he was driving around
with Keith, but the car got stuck in sand, that
he left to go and get a toe truck, and
when he returned, Keith had disappeared. The officers brought the
(15:18):
case to the DA, However, the day refused to press charges,
and at that point the corner had even stated that
Keith had died from drowning. Oh, even though at this
point only the skull had been found.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Yeah, he drowned and his head popped off. Yeah, It's like,
where's the rest of them?
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Also, how can you tell you was drowned or he
drowned without the.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Lungs just as head corner.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Yeah, I know, so he escaped that again, but it
does seem to spook Hume because he waited to the
last day of the year before killing again.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
The length of time without release resulted in his victim,
twenty two year old Mark Hall, being excessively tortured. He
had been burned all over his body. This included his eyes. No,
he had his genitalia removed and forced inside of him.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Was he alive? Yeah? Oh no.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
He was cut with broken pieces of glass and then
suffocated with leaves and dirt.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
Can we just pick our murderer now, yeah, I think
this is going to be fairly easy to choose. Good.
And this all happened while he was like tied up
to a tree. Oh, it's horrible.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
So in the new year nineteen seventy six, Randy found
a new boyfriend, nineteen year old Jeff Selig.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
So Randy was thirty one at the time.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Quite a bit of an age difference there. But because
of this new relationship, probably he didn't kill until the
end of nineteen seventy six, So that was.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
Nearly a whole year without killing. Okay, So it's back
to the beginning like when he was starting out.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Yeah, okay, and even then, there's only one murder in
nineteen seventy six and not another one for another year
and a half later. Wow, And that has been that's
on his scorecard as well, you know, and he was
quite meticulous about recording things, so he only has one
documented victim in that time until nineteen seventy eight.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
Good year, was that your birth year? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (17:17):
So he started killing again in April nineteen seventy eight,
and that's six more men in nineteen seventy eight that
he rate, tortured and mutilated most of them before strangling, suffocating,
and in one case stabbing them.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Okay. Yeah, I was gonna say he doesn't go for
a messy death. I mean, he goes for a really gross,
horrible death. Yeah, but he doesn't seem to like bloodshed.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
No, there's not really a lot of blood, but there's
one that he definitely stabbed them.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
So and he was still active from nineteen seventy eight
till nineteen eighty three.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Oh, and he killed nineteen.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
More men in the five years, and again this is
all really similar.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
In one case, he sort.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Of escalated and he killed two two cousins at the
same time, So he was on holiday in the Grand Rapids.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
And he was able to sort.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Of overpower them and was able to kill them both
at the same time. And he also started in certain
items into his victims.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
Eurethra's also oh no.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Again, most of them were suffocated or strangled. Like I
just couldn't fit all of the details. And I mean
I'm already like super over and Craig's looking at me
like look at the time, Gemma, So like.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
There's just there was just so many I can't believe
for many people he killed.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
Yeah, his last murder was a twenty five year old
marine called Terry Gambrel. He was bound and strangled to death.
And in comparison to his other victims, there wasn't that much.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
Done before that.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
He just seemed to have been like strangled and I
think actually raped. Right on the way to probably dispose
of the body. Randy was pulled over by police for
driving erratically and they found the body of Terry in
the front seat. No, yeah, the front seat underneath a blanket.
I think so that he could like pull over, kick
(19:12):
them out on the freeway, and then just drive off.
I think that's why you put them on the front seat.
So many mistakes, Yeah, although he'd been killing for like
eight years or something like that, and it was just
this mistake, this one time.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
So they arrested Randy.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Obviously, they also found blood on the floor of Randy's
boot or trunk to our American listeners, but Terry didn't
have any open wounds, so they knew that there must be, you.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
Know, another victim.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
Yeah, And in a compartment hidden in the book, they
found over fifty pictures of men who appeared to be
dead or unconscious. They also found Randy's scorecards Randy, what
are you doing with sixty one entries? And they were
able to tie into so many on sold murders and
(20:01):
it was written in sort of code. But through investigating,
they believed there's evidence of around sixty seven separate murders. Okay,
he was only charged with sixteen, but that's understandable with
sort of the evidence and things like that. They wanted
to make sure they could get the ones that they
could prove that he had done.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
We probably held back just in case. It got thrown
out too, that's it.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
Yeah, And on the sixteenth of May nineteen eighty three
he was charged with that, but his trial didn't begin
until five years later, five years, and it lasted over
six months. The jury deliberated for eleven days before finding
him guilty of all murders.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
What were they deliberating?
Speaker 2 (20:42):
I think because there's just so much evidence, of six
months worth of evidence.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
Okay, jury, let me break it down for your dead body,
weakend at Bernie right beside him. He's got pictures in
his trunk. Yeah, I don't know. And he's also like
made a little list for you. Yeah, it's right there.
The fuck were you debating? Well, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
Maybe at that time they were just like, well, we've
been at this for six months already.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Let's just sort of squeeze eleven days work here. Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
The defense team tried to convince the jury to not
sentence Randy to death because there was brain scans that
showed damage to his frontal lobe, okay, and therefore showed
that he had difficulty in controlling himself.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
However, the jury sentenced him to death. But it doesn't
I mean, I understand the frontal lobe damage one hundred percent.
I think that's tied in. But he could stop for
a year or year, a year and a half and didn't. Yeah, exactly.
So he still remains on death row to this day.
In sam Quentin.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
There's theories out there that an actual second killer worked
with them to commit a lot of his murders. However,
no one else has ever been tried. A former boyfriend,
a man called Jeff Graves, was questions extensively, but he
passed away before police could charge him with anything.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
So Randy must be in his eighties. Math has heard's
late seventies, early eighties, right, forty five? He was born eighty?
Is he eighty? Is that the math? Make the math?
Seventy five? Okay, alright, well I'm five years out. No,
that can be right.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
It's eighty five, help Craig Creigh, No as it's eighty five.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
No, Oh my gosh, I don't know. Why does math exist?
Why does math exist? There shouldn't be anything no higher
than two. I can't believe this has taken so long. Ah, Creig,
you do something that involves numbers for your job, don't you.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
He's just he's just refusing to help. I will calculate
this and get back to you after the break.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
All right, that was horrible, really good cheers. Okay, we're back.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
Before Holly jumps sudden, I am going to shamely shamely,
shamedly that's the word, shamedly say that it was seventy
five was how old.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
Randy would be in Yes, he's seventy five now. Yeah.
And also producer Craig percent told us that he wasn't
even listening to us. I know what terrible pages are.
I have a feeling that he should be listening to
us at least partly. Isn't that what you're supposed to
do is like help us when math is involved, like
it's part of visual anime because math is so hard.
(23:15):
That was baddest hard. I was bad that three adult
people could not figure out one man's age. That's all right, sorry,
let's move on. Yeah, I am talking about Robert John Maudsley. Okay.
Robert was born on the outskirts of Liverpool in June
of nineteen fifty three. He was one of twelve children.
H yeah, that's like oh, Catholic, farmly probably or just
(23:40):
I don't know, liked kids. I don't know, if anyone
likes kids that much. The second part doesn't add up.
But at six months old was placed in care as
their parents couldn't cope.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
Oh okay, well, having twelve kids do that, Yeah, helpful.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Hint, don't have twelve and you'll kill better. He went
to a Catholic orphanage written by nuns, right along with
his three siblings or five siblings, I guess says three.
And they had a wonderful life there, considered the nuns
their mothers. It was the best time of their life.
Oh my gosh. Yeah, Like the nuns were lovely to them, structure,
they were happy, you know, everything was really nice compared
(24:16):
to where they came from. Right, okay, And now he
was only a baby when he was placed there, so
he didn't have any memories of his home life. But
it was a better life there, okay. So the parents
didn't visit the orphanage for nine years, and then when
he was nine years old, they just showed up to
take their children home. You could do that, apparently, you
could do that. And they had a fifth sibling waiting
at home for them, so they tried a fifth baby
(24:38):
by that point, and then they were like, oh, Hi,
we're here for other four children. Huh So I did
try and change that to four. Oh no, it was
him and three siblings. Math fuck off, God damn it.
But wait, I thought they had twelve kids. They did
so at this point, like him and his three siblings
were put in an orphanage, so they'd only gotten up
to five at that point. Oh right, so they're struggling
(24:59):
a ready, okay, yeah, yeah. So none of the children
knew their parents, and they didn't want to go with
them because, like, they hadn't been there for nine years,
so they had no clue who these fucking people were.
But Robert was the only one who actually said it
out loud. Oh right, I don't want to go Oh right, okay, yeah.
So once home, the abuse began to happen. Gradually. Their
(25:20):
father would beat the children with his fists, belt and
sometimes sticks, but their mother would actually encourage the punishments.
Oh come on, yeah, so she would be like she
would rat them out basically to the father for every
little thing. So she would be like, oh, he did
this today, right, knowing they were going to get beaten
for it. Uh huh really twisted? Why did you think?
See in my head? I'm like, why did they want
(25:42):
their kids back?
Speaker 2 (25:43):
And I think so that they could take care of
any younger kids that came along.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Yeah. Probably that's the.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Only thing that makes sense, because you clearly don't want
your kids back.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
You hate them, you don't like children, uh huh from
the way that you're treating them. Yeah. So, within a
year of being home, Robert was play in a foster home,
but only Robert was placed in a foster home, so
clearly he was either fighting against it the most or
it was speaking out against it the most. When he
was sixteen years old, Robert ran away to London, where
he began heavily abusing drugs. He did sex work to
(26:15):
fund his addictions, and he tried to himself twice, and
he actually told the hospital staff while he was in
for trying to kill himself that he heard voices right, okay,
and those voices were telling him to kill his parents.
The voices were not far off Robert, Yeah, kind of
get it. He also later claimed to have been raped
as a child, which possible. I don't know, and I
(26:37):
don't think it would have been by his father, but
I think possibly it happened, Okay. In nineteen seventy four,
Robert picked up thirty year old John Ferrell in Woodgreen,
London for sex. They were going to have sex together. Yeah.
John reportedly showed Robert photos of children he had sexually abused,
and when Robert saw that, he went mental and attacked him. Yeah,
(26:58):
he killed amusing a Garrett. You're rot sounds better? My gosh,
our cases are following a theme here, they are. Yeah,
very strangly. Robert was arrested and declared unfit to stand
trial due to his state of mind at the time,
and he was sent to Broadmoor Hospital for the criminally Insane,
and it was recommended that he should never be released. Right.
In nineteen seventy seven, Robert and another inmate took fellow
(27:21):
patient David Francis hostage in a cell. He was a
convicted child molester, right, and over the next nine hours,
where the fuck are the guards? Questions? Questions, the two
tortured him to death over nine hours. I'm like, what
the fuck? Broadmore like, did they not do rounds? I know, well, if.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
They took them hostage, then maybe the guards knew, but
they couldn't go when no, they just left them. Oh right, okay,
Oh my gosh, that's terrible. That's really neglectful.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
Glastful, isn't it. Huh. At one point Robert ran a
spoon through David's ear and into his brain. Though, when
that was found out, Or was convicted of manslaughter for
David's death and sent to Wakefield Prison. Okay, And he
wasn't happy about that, and he made it obvious he
wanted to return to Broadmoor obviously, probably had more privileges. Obviously,
if you could torture somebody for nine hours, you've got
(28:12):
more privileges. Uh huh. So, yeah, he wasn't happy at
being in a real prison. Yeah. In nineteen seventy eight,
Robert invited another inmate named I think it was Solney Darwood,
who was in prison for the murder of his wife,
into his cell. Once there, Robert stabbed him and garroted
him to death again before hiding the body. How did
you hide a body in prison? He shoved it under
(28:33):
his trunk. Oh, not trunk bunk, So they have a trunk,
I don't know. For some reason, I was like, he
shoved it in a trunk. That didn't happen and he
didn't have one. No, he went under the bunk bed. Okay.
Robert then tried to get other inmates to visit a cell,
but they were all refused. They're like, eh, I don't
get a good vibe. I'm not going to go visit you.
(28:54):
So he got really frustrated. He started wandering the prison
wing looking for someone else to attack, like he just knew,
I want to do it. Okay. Eventually he cornered a
man named Bill Roberts. He was in there for sexually
assaulting a seven year old. He was a child molester
as well, and he attacked his head with a makeshift
dagger while smashing his head into the wall. So one
side being stabbed, the other side being smushed. Okay. Once
(29:16):
Bill was dead, Robert walked into the prison officer's room,
gave him the dagger and told him the roll call
would be two people short today. Cold. Yeah. In nineteen
eighty three, Robert was deemed too dangerous for a normal
prison cell. Yeah, So a special two room cell was
constructed in the basement of Wakefield Prison for him, oh,
where he was escorted by a minimum of four officers
(29:37):
for any movements every single time. Wow. It was kept
in strict solitary confinement with minimal comforts for twenty three
hours of every day. In two thousand and three, Robert
pled for the terms of his solitary confinement to either
be relaxed or for him to be allowed to commit
suicide by cyanide capsule. Oh, I mean nineteen eighty three
to two thousand and three. That's twenty years of solitary
(29:59):
confinement A long time. I actually, I think that's inhumane.
You might as well to death. Yeah, I think so
as well. So they didn't let him do either. He
was also denied a pet budgy, and he also asked
if he could be allowed to play boored games with
the guards, and that was denied as well. Oh I know.
I was like, oh, if there's four of them, they
(30:21):
are I know. So to make it worse, he has
a high IQ. Okay, he needs to be challenged. He
needs to be challenged and reportedly enjoys classical music, poetry,
and art. He asked to take a college course but
was denied. He does have a TV in a PlayStation
in his room. It is boring, Yeah, I kind of.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
Have twenty years of TV and PlayStation. Well it's even
more now, yeah, I suppose so.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
Yeah, it's just just really it was controversial because people
didn't think he had done something bad because he was
killing people who were child molesters and you know, wife
murderers and stuff like that, except for the first victim.
So I got most of this from the liver Boo
Echo article or actually it was an interview with Paul Maudsley,
his brother, right that Patty Sennan did in May of
(31:07):
two thousand and three. And then I also watched a
special on documentary tube dot com. Okay, no specially interesting.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
I think i'd heard about the Bob Moore incident before,
but I hadn't heard of the other murders. Yeah, although
this first victum, I know you said that you picked
him up for sex work, but yeah, you showed them
the photographs. So you showed them the photographs. I mean,
you don't have the right to take anybody's life, no
matter what they've done. But I can see where people
are coming from, and I really don't feel like that.
(31:35):
Twenty plus years nearly thirty years now, Yeah, solcial confinement
is horrendous.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
Almost forty years now, my gosh. Yeah, yeah, okay, it's bad.
I don't think that's right. I think in those thirty years, No,
because he was from eighty three, so twenty years had
to take you up to twenty. We're in twenty twenty, Gemma.
How am I being better at math than you today?
Speaker 3 (31:59):
What is?
Speaker 1 (32:00):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
I don't know what it is because I'm on holiday
from works, just like it's just like you're on holiday.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
Don't think you don't think that was good?
Speaker 2 (32:11):
Thank you, You're welcome, alrighty, Okay, So I was just
thinking they are just about how similar our cases are.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
Yeah, so they both use garts. Yeah, they both like
to torture as well. I don't think he did because
he didn't really torture the first victim. No, I didn't
torture the last victim. It was just the guy that
(32:40):
was the child molester. But I think because he had
a partner doing it with him, So.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
You think he was maybe spurred on by him, or
maybe it was a partner that was prolonging things.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
About the fet off each other. Probably a look way.
And I mean, yeah, there was torture, was worth of torture, yeah,
but I don't think that was necessary. He got nothing
out of that other than the pleasure of seeing somebody
who molested children suffer. Okay. It wasn't like a sexual
motivation or anything like that. It wasn't a compulsion to.
Speaker 2 (33:08):
Torture yeah, yeah, okay, whereas with rand de Craft, that
was what he needed, that torturous aspect, that causing pain.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
Yeah, that's what did it for him. That is what
I did it for him.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
And you know, if people have questioned whether he was
sort of wrestling both with the army discharging him one
like you mentioned earlier on, and also with his own sexuality.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
Too, yeah, I mean, he seems to be quite out,
especially with you know, those close to him. It doesn't
seem to have been that much of an issue, I know,
so don't. I don't know where things twisted for.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
Him, Yeah, because you know, he had committed relationships, yeah,
with his murders.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
So unless me and I don't know the story well
enough to say, but maybe his first sexual encounters with
male were when he was young and being abused.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
It's hard to know because there really wasn't that much
information on what could have caused us. You know, it
seemed like, apart from his dad being a bit checked out,
that he had a fairly okay childhood, a bit clumsy
perhaps a head injury front a little damage indicates that,
(34:25):
but there's no evidence of like animal torture or like
any criminal behaviors before that.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
It's a big leap. I suppose you can't really tell.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
Yeah, so I'm not entirely sure where this sort of
came from. But regardless, he was a really bad man
to meet in a dark ally if you are a
younger male, and the way that he treated them, what
he did to them.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
It was horrible. Yeah. So I'll take a spoon in
the air any day over that fucker. I mean, even
that sounds horrible, but I think I would choose yours
as well. Yeah, definitely, I'm going with mine.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
Yeah, I mean you picked mine before you even in
the middle of your speech, like I am, I'm done.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
I am not picking yours. I can't. Yeah. Yeah, usually bad. Okay,
so we're agreeing this week, we are agreeing. Cool.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
So that's the end of our episode. Thank you very
much for listening and bearing with me. I know my
case was really long, but Holly's was nice and neat,
so that made up for it. Yes, if you have
enjoyed this episode, give us a little rate and review.
On iTunes, you can also subscribe to us on iTunes
or there's Google Podcasts, there's a Spreaker, there's Spotify, and
(35:44):
saying this because Craig's created this little prompt sheet that
he's put on the tailey and he's now pointing.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
To it up on social media. You guys will see
it and it's a little back.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
Yeah and yeah, And if you have enjoyed us, you know,
tell your friends, tell your family to give us a
little lesson.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
Yes, well that would be good. And give us a
little chat on Twitter, Instagram or at which Murderer or
on Facebook. Just look us up and we have a
Facebook group as well that you can chat to us.
And maybe somebody could teach us math, yes, throwing it
out there out there that you know, can sense how
badly we're struggling and would like to really help us
(36:26):
out in life, or just you know, be available at
all times to do our math for us. Yeah, that
would be better. A little mathe expert to sit in
the corner. Yeah, would be great. Let us know. Yes,
we'll see you next week. Bye bye.
Speaker 3 (36:40):
Which Moderer is hosted by Speaker and is recorded in
a secret location in Scotland. Can find us wherever you
listen to your podcasts. Email us at which Moderer at
gmail dot com, or visit our website at which murderer
dot com. We are also on Instagram, read it at Twitter,
just look for the app which can or hashtag. You
(37:02):
can join the debate on our Facebook page and group
interacting with other listeners, or the which Moderwer team. Our
theme music is Kill Me Again by Blue bend. Our
artwork was produced by Wild Creations at fiver dot com
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