February 7, 2025 • 27 mins
Which Murderer Flashback Episode!
In Season 3 Episode 44 the girls talk about Murderers Haunted by Victim’s Ghosts. Gemma starts you off with the case of Adrian Daou before Holly goes over Jose Ferreira’s story.
Shoutout for Scott who is smitten with Producer Craig apparently. The girls are trying not to let Craig hear his praise or he will take over and kick them out of the team.
The girls are engrossing you all with endless stories of Wotsits, Holly weighs in on Gemma’s case and comes down on Canada, both girls struggle with names because they know you like consistency in your life and there are some rather unexpected flashbacks from Gemma.
Production, recording and post production completed by Producer Craig who is currently lacing up his giant kicking out boots while waiting for listener Scott to show up as backup.
Gemma edited this week. All complaints should be sent directly to Producer Craig who is not about to be tied up and placed in the ‘hole’ Gemma has been building under the Kitchen. Nope.
www.whichmurderer.com
WARNING - Explicit language, content and themes (plus whatever else will cover us legally). All opinions stated are our own and case information was gathered from legitimate sources within the public realm.
Pre-recorded in Scotland
In Season 3 Episode 44 the girls talk about Murderers Haunted by Victim’s Ghosts. Gemma starts you off with the case of Adrian Daou before Holly goes over Jose Ferreira’s story.
Shoutout for Scott who is smitten with Producer Craig apparently. The girls are trying not to let Craig hear his praise or he will take over and kick them out of the team.
The girls are engrossing you all with endless stories of Wotsits, Holly weighs in on Gemma’s case and comes down on Canada, both girls struggle with names because they know you like consistency in your life and there are some rather unexpected flashbacks from Gemma.
Production, recording and post production completed by Producer Craig who is currently lacing up his giant kicking out boots while waiting for listener Scott to show up as backup.
Gemma edited this week. All complaints should be sent directly to Producer Craig who is not about to be tied up and placed in the ‘hole’ Gemma has been building under the Kitchen. Nope.
www.whichmurderer.com
WARNING - Explicit language, content and themes (plus whatever else will cover us legally). All opinions stated are our own and case information was gathered from legitimate sources within the public realm.
Pre-recorded in Scotland
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
If you like.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Hi Holly, Hi Gemma, how's it going tonight?
Speaker 3 (00:24):
It's going, you know, the usual eight nothing of any
nutritional value for dinner.
Speaker 4 (00:32):
So yeah, I think you mentioned to Craig earlier on
that you had what sits for dinner?
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Is that right?
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Yeah? I told him the story and my tests recording.
I told him the story of the giant wats it's
and how I eat them for my dinner, and how
I'm a very good adult.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
They're actually so good, don't you think the giant ones?
Speaker 3 (00:50):
The giant ones are good? But I feel like sandpaper
has been taken to the roof of my mouth, right yea,
The entire top layer of skin on the roof of
my mouth is gone.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
What you mean?
Speaker 3 (01:01):
But it was worth it.
Speaker 4 (01:02):
I ate them right before I got admitted to hospital
last year, and I haven't been able to eat them
since because I'm like, I think they contributed to sending
me to hospitals.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Uh huh. They ruined your little gall bladder, didn't they?
Speaker 2 (01:14):
I think they were part of ruining my goal bladder.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Yes, anyway, how are you good?
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Thank you? I'm fine, just had a day of work.
It's all fine, Yeah, all good. Good times we are
a witch murderer?
Speaker 3 (01:28):
Oh shit, y how we are? And we have a
shout out to do? Sure do? So we got a
was this on? I never know what this is on?
Is it on Facebook? Is it on I don't know.
I don't know. Somewhere on the internet.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Uh huh.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
I think it was Facebook, but I could be wrong,
Scott said, I don't you want to read this? He said,
well done Craig for the silent contribution, even though I
think you might have been swayed by the missing parts,
i e. The penis that got cut off. It was
in Jemma's case, Yes, sided with Jemma when we had
(02:10):
a little uh do you call it tai?
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Yes he did.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
I don't think it was particularly me that swedom as
it was more the penis being cut off in my case.
Speaker 4 (02:23):
I can't actually remember what episode that was now I
remember the case, but I can't remember.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
I think that was Siblings Who Murder?
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Ah, Yes, I think you're right.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
Yeah, And I pointed out to Craig when he just
totally ignored all my arguments that it was post mardom, like,
what do you care what happens to your deck after
you're dead? Think about before you know he sided with you?
I know.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Never Well, and that's all the shouts we've got I
think for this week.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
I think so I feel like there's more, but I
don't have some.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
So hey, everybody, thanks for listening on doing what you're
doing more.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
Sorry.
Speaker 4 (03:06):
Yeah, so this week we're got a little bit of
a different topic. I picked this one from our list
that we have because I thought it sounded interesting but
also kind of weird. And the topic is murderers who
were haunted by their victims ghosts. Yep, and my case
(03:30):
is about a man called Adrian Doo. I think is
it's a lot of vills in there, so I'm going
to assume that's what it is. I needed quite a
lot of references for this one, so I got this
from two Auto a Sun articles by Matt Day and
Tony Spears.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
They did one each, Canadian Yes.
Speaker 4 (03:52):
To Autoa Citizen articles by a man called Gary Dimmock,
and a National Post article. Okay, and maybe off, even
though I've mentioned what the topic is, I'll start off
by saying that doesn't really necessarily include on landing.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
Why do you do this? Why do you apick a topic?
Then B pick a case that doesn't actually come at
this is like the fourth time you've done that.
Speaker 4 (04:16):
There is a line that says about the victim's ghost,
so I thought it counted. But even without that, it's
quite a complicated and interesting case, I think. And I
wanted to speak about it today mostly to get like
your thoughts on it and what other.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
People would think about it.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (04:35):
The layer of it is a little bit different as
well due to the nature. But we'll see how it
goes cool. So in February twenty thirteen, Adrian Dowe was
serving a short sentence for drug related crimes in an
Ottawa Carlton Regional Detention Center.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
HM.
Speaker 4 (04:54):
He had been a drug dealer, specifically crack for a
number of years, as well as a part time dishwasher
and I want to be rap.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
Star, Okay, quite a combination.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
And yeah, it was a bit of a weird one.
Speaker 4 (05:07):
And this point, I think he's about twenty three years old, Okay.
During a sentence in twenty thirteen, he was put into
an isolation cell. This cell had no stimulation, there was
no books or contact with people allowed. His food and
drink was limited to basics, and the detention center psychiatrists
would later describe it as draconian. From what I could find,
(05:31):
I think he was put into the isolation cell for
his own safety, as he was voicing suicidal thoughts, and
he was also wearing a suicide jacket in the cell,
which I thought was a form of restraint, but turns
out it looks like just to be a big jacket
that looks impossible to rip.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
Isn't it like a big puffy thing.
Speaker 4 (05:49):
It's quite puffet's It's almost like you know how those
matchs you would get in gym class. Maybe it was
just does, but like very thick sort of foamy material
that you can't really rip. After twenty two days in
the isolation cell a long time, yeah, Adrian said he
wanted to speak to officers about a murder from twenty ten.
(06:10):
He was taken to an interview room where he voiced
relief to be out of the hole, as he called it.
He then sent to guards that they should call the judge,
tell the judge that he was a murderer, and then
they could arrange for him to be taken to a
different prison. So it seems Adrian really wanted out of
the detention center and out of that cell, specifically, and
(06:32):
thought that an open prison would be better for him.
Guard said that they weren't going to do that, that
any confession he would give would have to be corroborated
with evidence before a judge would become involved, and he
would not be moved immediately. Adrian then started confessing to
the unsolved murder of a thirty six year old woman
called Jennifer Stuart. Jennifer was a mother, She was unfortunately
(06:57):
addicted to drugs, and she was a sex worker to
fund her drug use. She was extremely tiny, she weighed
only about eighty pounds, and she was found in a
car park by a dog walker on the morning of
twentieth of August twenty ten. She was lying face down
and the dog walker thought she looked as if she
(07:19):
was sleeping. However, the person went home and reported her
findings to her husband, who then went to investigate, found
her dead.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
And called the police.
Speaker 4 (07:28):
Right Adrian's report to officers in twenty thirteen was that
he lured her there under the pretense of a drug
deal and attacked her from behind. Officers then steered a
conversation to the murder weapon. As police had deliberately kept
that detail out of the press. Adriane said he stabbed
her with a military knife. At first, officers asked if
(07:49):
he was sure about that, and Asian replied, that's what
the news said, and then asked officers what they thought
the murder weapon was. When officers refused to answer, he
said it was an AX and that was supported by
the evidence. It was an AX that was a murder weapon.
Adriane said that Jennifer didn't fight back, that she just
(08:12):
lay there after the initial attack from behind. However, Jennifer
had defensive wound all up her arms. Her wrists were
nearly chopped clean off, and so she definitely had fought
back and tried to defend herself. Officers then decided to
take Adrian to another police station for a more in
depth interview, and there Adrian was giving pizza, cola, and coffee,
(08:35):
luxuries that he hadn't had in weeks. The next interview
was recorded both with video and audio. Adrian can be
heard rapping when left in the room by himself and
further questioning, he said that there was a few motives
for the murder. He said he had heard the radio
telling him to kill someone. He also said that he
(08:56):
wanted to kill someone so he could become a better rapper,
believing that the experience of killing someone would mean he
would be able to write better lyrics and he would
become a billionaire.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (09:07):
Adrian reported that after killing Jennifer, he ran away. He
jumped fences and he thought he left blood marks on them.
He arrived at his house, looked in the mirror and
was surprised to see no blood on his face. He
disposed of his clothes and the axe in a binbag, showered,
and returned to the scene. Once he got back to
the scene, he told police he saw Jennifer's ghost fly
(09:30):
by him. He says he now sees our ghost a
few times a day. Oh Adrian was returned to the
isolation cell in the detention center, and around nine days
later he called on guards again and said he wanted
to confess to another murder. However, that murder was already
in the process of being solved with DNA, and the
(09:52):
DNA didn't match Adrian's, so officers refused to listen to him. Eventually,
Adrian was charged with Jennifer's murder, but between the original
confession and Adrian being charged, he had players to have
changed his mind, and he now pled not guilty. At trial,
Adrian's confession tape was played. Prosecutors tied a receipt for
(10:14):
an axe and other items to Adrian that was purchased
two months before the murder, but these seemed to be
the only pieces of evidence. Defence lawyers brought up that
DNA was found on Jennifer that didn't belong to Adrian either.
They were able to show that Adrian had been researching
Jennifer's case online prior to being arrested, and his details
(10:34):
reflected what had been said in the paper.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Additionally, the murder weapon had never been found.
Speaker 4 (10:40):
The judge also allowed evidence for unrelated crimes that he
was not charged with and not on trial for, including
an attempted murder, and he did not allow evidence about
Adrian's mental health in Nonetheless, the jury deliberated for three
days before finding him guilty a first degree murder on
the sixteenth of December fifteen. He was sentenced to life
(11:02):
in prison and will not be eligible for parole for
twenty five years, which I think we've said that before
is the maximum sentence in Canada.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
It is. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (11:11):
Adrian's defense team filed an appeal soon after, but because
I couldn't find much information on it. I think I'm
going to assume that it was denied, Okay. I found
this quite quite interesting as I think that there's a
question over whether Adrian did kill Jennifer. There is some
evidence that supports that. However, I feel that there's enough
reasonable doubt there, especially when you look at some of
the decisions that the judge made. I just wanted to
(11:34):
maybe have a wee discussion with you and get your
thoughts on it.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
Ottawa is the capital city of Canada. There is a
city part of it, but there's a lot a lot
of outlying communities. Yeah, having an AX is normal in Canada.
It would be abnormal for people not to have an
AX unless you live directly in the city. Yeah, and
even then, if you're camping, you're going to have an AX.
So I don't. It's really difficult because that's really the
(12:00):
only thing that physically ties him to that, and it's
not even found.
Speaker 4 (12:04):
It's the acts hasn't been found that it's the only
thing is a receipt, but there isn't proof that he
was the one that bought it because they couldn't find
any video surveillance in the shop. They also didn't speak
to anybody from the shop and asked them to sort
of corroborate whether he was the person that bought these items,
(12:26):
which is difficult to do five years later. Yeah, but
that really is the only evidence, and his confession which
can be presumed to have been false after twenty two
days in isolation.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
And he's also recently.
Speaker 4 (12:41):
Got a diagnosis of paranoid schizophrenia as well.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
Yeah, when were his computer searches? Were they while he
was in prison or after or sorry, before he went
to prison?
Speaker 2 (12:52):
They were before?
Speaker 3 (12:54):
They were before I went to prison, Yeah, which is
also kind of indicative of because a lot of murderers
look up the crimes that they've committed, Yeah, to see
what people know or see what the police know.
Speaker 4 (13:07):
I'm not entirely sure if he deliberately looked them up
or if he just read them sort of coming across them.
I mean, I read about murder articles like at least
once a day. You know, I don't actively search for them,
but you know, they pop up on my Reddit account,
or they prop up on the news or whatever. So
I'm not entirely sure if he actually soot them out
(13:28):
or if he just sort of came across them.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
Okay to me, I don't feel that there was enough
there for a conviction. Yeah, and I think they really
should have put his mental health into the case. Yeah,
that's huge.
Speaker 4 (13:40):
You know, it really shocked me to hear about the
isolation cell in Canada of all places, Like I couldn't
quite get my head around that, Like, it just seemed
quite barbaric.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
Every prison has it. It's called the whole. Some inmates
enjoy going to the hole because it's a bit of peace,
especially if they're being picked on. Most of them don't.
Twenty two days is quite cruel. People don't cope well with.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
Isolation plus nine afterwards.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
Yeah, there's different reasons you go to the whole. If
you're going to the hole for being naughty, then obviously
they're going to be treated a little bit differently. If
you're going for your own protection, you might have a
little bit more of a nice time there, like you
might get more conversation, you might get more potentially exercise time.
But it's not pleasant. I mean, they have to have them.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
No, I get that.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
It's not like, you know, like they don't have anything
in there or anything like that. It's more just like
you're in there by yourself.
Speaker 4 (14:35):
Yeah, no, from the way it was described that there
was literally there was nothing in there. You know, there
was a mattress on the floor type thing, which is
what I was picturing.
Speaker 3 (14:45):
If you're suicide risk, yeah then I think you wouldn't
be able to have much. But yeah, that's way too
long in an isolation cell, especially if you've got a
mental health issue.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
I think so as well.
Speaker 4 (14:54):
I don't think anyone's going to have better mental health
being put in isolation for that long.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
It's gonna help anybody.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
I'm trying to think. Because they're federal, the prisons there
are federal, and I'm trying to think back now because
one of my spouses worked at one, I've got that many.
I don't think that they did longer than four or
five days in the hole. From memory, Yeah, quite a
long time too, and that would be quite a sentence.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
But that's my case.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
It was very good.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Thank you. Okay, we're back.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
We are back, and I from my Haunted by their
Victims case, I'm going to be talking about Jose Feriia Ferrera,
very fair Era Ferira. There's a lot of ours in
his name.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
I had a lot of els. You have a lot
of ours anyway.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
Jose was born in Milwaukee in nineteen sixty five into
what I believe was a Native American family. Okay, he
was a Native American. Assume he had Native American family,
but I added that part in for umph. Not much
as really known about his childhood. I couldn't find anything
on it, right. But by the time he was a teenager,
(16:11):
he was into teenager shit. He was skipping school, going
to parties, and taking drugs. Nothing like catastrophic. Was just
being a teenager.
Speaker 4 (16:19):
Go.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
So in nineteen eighty two, Jose was seventeen years old
when he attended a house party, and at that house party,
he met thirteen year old Carrie Ann Joepek, who was
also skipping school with friends. And she was doing that too.
She could go to the party. Okay, she was quite
young actually to be doing that. Thirteen. Yeah, did I
(16:40):
skip school at thirteen? I don't think I did. I
think I was still under the influence of authority. She
was like a really bright, happy girl. But according to
her mother, she grew up just way too fast, Like
she was just one of these girls who was, like,
you know, from ten years old to thirteen in the
blank and I and probably acted about eighteen. At the party,
(17:03):
Jose and Carrie and met out or chatting. He offered
her a joint, which she took, but was coughing quite
a bit when she took it, so she's really not
really like used to it. He asked her to go
to the basement with him and you know, make out
and do whatever. I think he wanted to have sex,
and she initially agreed, but then has second thoughts on
(17:25):
the way down the stairs and she was like, I
don't sort of turned to him with I don't think
this is a good idea. Okay, like a smart girl.
M He became frustrated at that. Bear in mind he's
also high, so you know, like he's I don't know,
he's just maybe not thinking as clearly as normal. Yeah,
And he pushed her downstairs, where she fell unconscious at
the bottom. So he went down and he began sexually
(17:48):
assaulting her while she was knocked out, thinking it was
sort of a good opportunity to get what he wanted
while she was unconscious. Gosh, okay, yeah, I know. But
afterwards when he tried I had to pick her up
and you know, like get her conscious again, he realized
that she had actually like broken her neck on the
fall down and she was dead. O yeah, wow, yeah,
(18:11):
I mean it actually feels like a horror movie or
like one of those weird, twisty turny dark movies.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
So Jose then took Carrie Anne's body out through the
basement window and he buried her underneath the neighbor's front porch.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Well, the party was still going on, Yeah, okay, right.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
I mean, yards in America are big, so I'm assuming
that it was you know, not lit up, and you know,
there was just probably a huge amount of space in between. Okay,
Apparently he when he like after he finished like burying her,
he probably couldn't do that good job because it was
under a porch and he was high and freaked out
and all this stuff. He could still see some of
her hair because it was quite long, sticking out of
(18:52):
the ground when he left the scene. On March sixteenth,
nineteen eighty two, Carrie Anne's mother reported her missing, and
on the very same day, she also learned that the
seventh grader had been suspended for cutting classes from her school. Okay,
so like that's when her mom basically found out everything
(19:12):
that was going on.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Gosh, it makes us send even younger when you say
seventh grader, doesn't it.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
Oh she was she was just I mean, she was
just a baby. She'd only just came thirteen.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Oh goshes sad.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
So seventeen months later, in August of nineteen eighty three,
a contractor working on the neighbor's house found the remains
of Carry Anne buried under front porch.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
And they hadn't smelled anything and all that time, I know.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
I thought that was weird too, But then you know,
growing up in sort of rural areas, there's shit dying
all the time, and yeah, cats and dogs buried dead
animals under porches, But I mean, a dead body smell
was really quite strong.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
Maybe the weather conditions made it so that by the
time the heat came around, she had already like gone
through most of the process. That makes sense. Yeah, yeah,
So an autopsy showed that Carrie Anne died as a
result of bleeding inside her skull from a severe head
and neck injuries, a broken egg obviously, and probably skull fractures.
Jose was questioned at this point because of the party
(20:14):
and because a neighbor recalled seeing him acting strangely and
crying that night, okay, but he denied any involvement and
no charges were laid. There was nothing to really link
him to it. He was just, you know, he probably
came up with some excuse like whatever, there was drama
or something, right, So Jose would later tell Carrin's mother,
(20:37):
your daughter is haunting me, which is perhaps why. Thirty
years later, on the eleventh of October twenty fifteen, Jose,
out of the blue, called a crisis hotline and told
the story of a young girl falling down a flight
of stairs and dying. The same day, Jose called WSN
twelve news in Milwaukee and he told them the same story.
(21:00):
And then on that same day, Jose's wife went to
a West Milwaukee police station and told an officer that
her husband had confessed to being responsible for the nineteen
eighty two killing of a girl he had buried under
a porch.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Oh wow.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
Two days later, during his interview with police, he gave
a full account of the entire night. Due to minimal
evidence at the scene, the case like absolutely would probably
have never been sold. I mean, it was a thirty
year old cold case and there was nothing physical tying
him to the murder. Without Jose coming forward, there would
have been absolutely nothing.
Speaker 4 (21:35):
Yeah, and he probably would have gotten away with it
until he died.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
One hundred percent. He would have absolutely In twenty seventeen,
Jose was initially charged with second degree murder, but due
to the lack of physical evidence, prosecutors offered him a
plea deal. Basically, you know, like his lawyers probably told
him to fight it a wee bit because you know,
like you can get a better deal or whatever, and
he ended up pleading guilty to attempt to second degree
(22:00):
sexual assault with USU force and false imprisonment for pushing
her into the basement against her will.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
Wow. So not even any death charges, no marder, no manslaughter, nothing.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
Nothing, to be fair, I don't think intent was there,
you know, at all. I don't think he ever intended
to kill her.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
It's manslaughter.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
It would be manslaughter, but I think manslaughter tends to
get pled down quite a bit as well if it
is like pure manslaughter. I'm not trying to like say
he didn't murder her, but I don't think he murdered
her with intent. So I can understand why they offered
him a plea deal, especially given that there was. It
was all on him confessing m So he will be
serving seven years in prison. The sentencing was one day
(22:44):
over thirty five years since Carrie Anne's death. That was
twenty seventeen, so math twenty twenty four I think is
when he'll come out of prison. Okay, he expressed remorse
the whole time, and her parents were set aside with
the outcome as well. Oh right, okay, yeah, he's spoken
to the mother. I mean, he was a young teenager himself,
(23:08):
not excusing any of the behavior, but there was no
intent and I don't think he ever foresaw the outcome
of her dying. I don't think that was ever the thing,
and he was just being a stupid teenager doing stupid
shit and being a complete sexual deviant.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
Yeah, completely.
Speaker 4 (23:24):
I mean, he didn't intend to murder her, but he
did intend to, you know, sexually assault her.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
Yeah. I don't think he knew her age at the time.
Speaker 4 (23:33):
No, no, but he still assaulted her when she was unconscious,
and even if she didn't become unconscious, he probably would
have sexually assaulted her if she had survived, and.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
If she hadn't made it back up to the main floor,
I think he would have Yeah, she'd clearly already withdrawn
her consent and he was still going to do it.
So at that point like it was completely in the
wrong and he should be serving time for that. So
I got all this from the Milwaukee Journal, Sentinel, CBS News,
and the Huffington Post, and they were all from twenty seventeen.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
These articles brilliant, good case, Holly, Thanks, you're welcome. Alright,
we're back.
Speaker 3 (24:16):
We are back.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (24:18):
I think we sort of said in the break there
that this is going to be fairly easy. I think
to conclude, Yeah, do you want to go first?
Speaker 3 (24:28):
Well, given that your girl was hacked to death with
a fucking axe and my girl died instantly falling down
the stairs, I'm going to go with my guy. Yeah,
I mean push me down the stairs, kill me instantly. Please,
I don't want to be happy for an acts.
Speaker 4 (24:44):
I think if we're going solely on death, then yes,
that's exactly what I would pick as well. It's the
only thing that's making me sort of semi doubt. It
is just a vect that she was so young, you know,
she was only thirteen. Yeah, that is a bit of
a stickler for me, But I don't I think it
quite outweighs the being hacked to death with an axe, death.
Speaker 3 (25:05):
In the defensive ones. I mean, you know you're death
with an axe. You It's not like hit once in
the head and you don't know. It's like you are
fighting for your life against an axe.
Speaker 4 (25:17):
And that's got to be so painful and so terrifying,
so scary. Yes, so I think we are in agreement
this week that we are both picking your case.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
Yes, we are going to be thrown down the stairs. Yes,
yes we are.
Speaker 4 (25:32):
So thank you all for listening, and we hope we've
enjoyed this. And if you have enjoyed it, if you
give us a little rate and review on iTunes or
Google Podcasts or Amazon.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Music or wherever you're listening, that would be lovely.
Speaker 4 (25:48):
And if you feel like your friends would enjoy it,
your family would enjoy it, why don't you just send
our information over to them and let them know we
would really appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
Thank you very much.
Speaker 3 (26:00):
Yeah, why don't you just do it? Also give us
a shout out on Instagram, Twitter, facebook page, facebook group,
send us some suggestions for themes and cases. Even if
you feel strongly about a certain case, not saying we're
definitely gonna do it, but we'll definitely look at it.
Speaker 4 (26:23):
I just got a flashback there. I don't know if
you remember this, when one time we were doing this conclusion
there and I took your part and I said your
lines and you were looking at me with such rage.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
I don't know why. I just got a flashback of
that there, but that I.
Speaker 3 (26:39):
Just like, well, what do I do with my life now?
Speaker 2 (26:43):
Struggle through been like, I don't know what I'm saying now.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
I was just like, I don't know. Just talk to us.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
Anyway, little side note there. We will see y'all next week, guys,
we will Bye Bye Bye.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
Which is hosted by Speaker and is recorded in a
secret location in Scotland. Can find us wherever you listen
to your podcasts. Email us at which Murderer at gmail
dot com or visit our website at which murderer dot com.
We are also on Instagram, Reddit and Twitter. Just look
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(27:20):
join the debate on our Facebook page and group, interacting
with other our listeners or the which Murderer team. Our
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If you like.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Hi Holly, Hi Gemma, how's it going tonight?
Speaker 3 (00:24):
It's going, you know, the usual eight nothing of any
nutritional value for dinner.
Speaker 4 (00:32):
So yeah, I think you mentioned to Craig earlier on
that you had what sits for dinner?
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Is that right?
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Yeah? I told him the story and my tests recording.
I told him the story of the giant wats it's
and how I eat them for my dinner, and how
I'm a very good adult.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
They're actually so good, don't you think the giant ones?
Speaker 3 (00:50):
The giant ones are good? But I feel like sandpaper
has been taken to the roof of my mouth, right yea,
The entire top layer of skin on the roof of
my mouth is gone.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
What you mean?
Speaker 3 (01:01):
But it was worth it.
Speaker 4 (01:02):
I ate them right before I got admitted to hospital
last year, and I haven't been able to eat them
since because I'm like, I think they contributed to sending
me to hospitals.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Uh huh. They ruined your little gall bladder, didn't they?
Speaker 2 (01:14):
I think they were part of ruining my goal bladder.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Yes, anyway, how are you good?
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Thank you? I'm fine, just had a day of work.
It's all fine, Yeah, all good. Good times we are
a witch murderer?
Speaker 3 (01:28):
Oh shit, y how we are? And we have a
shout out to do? Sure do? So we got a
was this on? I never know what this is on?
Is it on Facebook? Is it on I don't know.
I don't know. Somewhere on the internet.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Uh huh.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
I think it was Facebook, but I could be wrong,
Scott said, I don't you want to read this? He said,
well done Craig for the silent contribution, even though I
think you might have been swayed by the missing parts,
i e. The penis that got cut off. It was
in Jemma's case, Yes, sided with Jemma when we had
(02:10):
a little uh do you call it tai?
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Yes he did.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
I don't think it was particularly me that swedom as
it was more the penis being cut off in my case.
Speaker 4 (02:23):
I can't actually remember what episode that was now I
remember the case, but I can't remember.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
I think that was Siblings Who Murder?
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Ah, Yes, I think you're right.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
Yeah, And I pointed out to Craig when he just
totally ignored all my arguments that it was post mardom, like,
what do you care what happens to your deck after
you're dead? Think about before you know he sided with you?
I know.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Never Well, and that's all the shouts we've got I
think for this week.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
I think so I feel like there's more, but I
don't have some.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
So hey, everybody, thanks for listening on doing what you're
doing more.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
Sorry.
Speaker 4 (03:06):
Yeah, so this week we're got a little bit of
a different topic. I picked this one from our list
that we have because I thought it sounded interesting but
also kind of weird. And the topic is murderers who
were haunted by their victims ghosts. Yep, and my case
(03:30):
is about a man called Adrian Doo. I think is
it's a lot of vills in there, so I'm going
to assume that's what it is. I needed quite a
lot of references for this one, so I got this
from two Auto a Sun articles by Matt Day and
Tony Spears.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
They did one each, Canadian Yes.
Speaker 4 (03:52):
To Autoa Citizen articles by a man called Gary Dimmock,
and a National Post article. Okay, and maybe off, even
though I've mentioned what the topic is, I'll start off
by saying that doesn't really necessarily include on landing.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
Why do you do this? Why do you apick a topic?
Then B pick a case that doesn't actually come at
this is like the fourth time you've done that.
Speaker 4 (04:16):
There is a line that says about the victim's ghost,
so I thought it counted. But even without that, it's
quite a complicated and interesting case, I think. And I
wanted to speak about it today mostly to get like
your thoughts on it and what other.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
People would think about it.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (04:35):
The layer of it is a little bit different as
well due to the nature. But we'll see how it
goes cool. So in February twenty thirteen, Adrian Dowe was
serving a short sentence for drug related crimes in an
Ottawa Carlton Regional Detention Center.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
HM.
Speaker 4 (04:54):
He had been a drug dealer, specifically crack for a
number of years, as well as a part time dishwasher
and I want to be rap.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
Star, Okay, quite a combination.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
And yeah, it was a bit of a weird one.
Speaker 4 (05:07):
And this point, I think he's about twenty three years old, Okay.
During a sentence in twenty thirteen, he was put into
an isolation cell. This cell had no stimulation, there was
no books or contact with people allowed. His food and
drink was limited to basics, and the detention center psychiatrists
would later describe it as draconian. From what I could find,
(05:31):
I think he was put into the isolation cell for
his own safety, as he was voicing suicidal thoughts, and
he was also wearing a suicide jacket in the cell,
which I thought was a form of restraint, but turns
out it looks like just to be a big jacket
that looks impossible to rip.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
Isn't it like a big puffy thing.
Speaker 4 (05:49):
It's quite puffet's It's almost like you know how those
matchs you would get in gym class. Maybe it was
just does, but like very thick sort of foamy material
that you can't really rip. After twenty two days in
the isolation cell a long time, yeah, Adrian said he
wanted to speak to officers about a murder from twenty ten.
(06:10):
He was taken to an interview room where he voiced
relief to be out of the hole, as he called it.
He then sent to guards that they should call the judge,
tell the judge that he was a murderer, and then
they could arrange for him to be taken to a
different prison. So it seems Adrian really wanted out of
the detention center and out of that cell, specifically, and
(06:32):
thought that an open prison would be better for him.
Guard said that they weren't going to do that, that
any confession he would give would have to be corroborated
with evidence before a judge would become involved, and he
would not be moved immediately. Adrian then started confessing to
the unsolved murder of a thirty six year old woman
called Jennifer Stuart. Jennifer was a mother, She was unfortunately
(06:57):
addicted to drugs, and she was a sex worker to
fund her drug use. She was extremely tiny, she weighed
only about eighty pounds, and she was found in a
car park by a dog walker on the morning of
twentieth of August twenty ten. She was lying face down
and the dog walker thought she looked as if she
(07:19):
was sleeping. However, the person went home and reported her
findings to her husband, who then went to investigate, found
her dead.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
And called the police.
Speaker 4 (07:28):
Right Adrian's report to officers in twenty thirteen was that
he lured her there under the pretense of a drug
deal and attacked her from behind. Officers then steered a
conversation to the murder weapon. As police had deliberately kept
that detail out of the press. Adriane said he stabbed
her with a military knife. At first, officers asked if
(07:49):
he was sure about that, and Asian replied, that's what
the news said, and then asked officers what they thought
the murder weapon was. When officers refused to answer, he
said it was an AX and that was supported by
the evidence. It was an AX that was a murder weapon.
Adriane said that Jennifer didn't fight back, that she just
(08:12):
lay there after the initial attack from behind. However, Jennifer
had defensive wound all up her arms. Her wrists were
nearly chopped clean off, and so she definitely had fought
back and tried to defend herself. Officers then decided to
take Adrian to another police station for a more in
depth interview, and there Adrian was giving pizza, cola, and coffee,
(08:35):
luxuries that he hadn't had in weeks. The next interview
was recorded both with video and audio. Adrian can be
heard rapping when left in the room by himself and
further questioning, he said that there was a few motives
for the murder. He said he had heard the radio
telling him to kill someone. He also said that he
(08:56):
wanted to kill someone so he could become a better rapper,
believing that the experience of killing someone would mean he
would be able to write better lyrics and he would
become a billionaire.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (09:07):
Adrian reported that after killing Jennifer, he ran away. He
jumped fences and he thought he left blood marks on them.
He arrived at his house, looked in the mirror and
was surprised to see no blood on his face. He
disposed of his clothes and the axe in a binbag, showered,
and returned to the scene. Once he got back to
the scene, he told police he saw Jennifer's ghost fly
(09:30):
by him. He says he now sees our ghost a
few times a day. Oh Adrian was returned to the
isolation cell in the detention center, and around nine days
later he called on guards again and said he wanted
to confess to another murder. However, that murder was already
in the process of being solved with DNA, and the
(09:52):
DNA didn't match Adrian's, so officers refused to listen to him. Eventually,
Adrian was charged with Jennifer's murder, but between the original
confession and Adrian being charged, he had players to have
changed his mind, and he now pled not guilty. At trial,
Adrian's confession tape was played. Prosecutors tied a receipt for
(10:14):
an axe and other items to Adrian that was purchased
two months before the murder, but these seemed to be
the only pieces of evidence. Defence lawyers brought up that
DNA was found on Jennifer that didn't belong to Adrian either.
They were able to show that Adrian had been researching
Jennifer's case online prior to being arrested, and his details
(10:34):
reflected what had been said in the paper.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Additionally, the murder weapon had never been found.
Speaker 4 (10:40):
The judge also allowed evidence for unrelated crimes that he
was not charged with and not on trial for, including
an attempted murder, and he did not allow evidence about
Adrian's mental health in Nonetheless, the jury deliberated for three
days before finding him guilty a first degree murder on
the sixteenth of December fifteen. He was sentenced to life
(11:02):
in prison and will not be eligible for parole for
twenty five years, which I think we've said that before
is the maximum sentence in Canada.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
It is. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (11:11):
Adrian's defense team filed an appeal soon after, but because
I couldn't find much information on it. I think I'm
going to assume that it was denied, Okay. I found
this quite quite interesting as I think that there's a
question over whether Adrian did kill Jennifer. There is some
evidence that supports that. However, I feel that there's enough
reasonable doubt there, especially when you look at some of
the decisions that the judge made. I just wanted to
(11:34):
maybe have a wee discussion with you and get your
thoughts on it.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
Ottawa is the capital city of Canada. There is a
city part of it, but there's a lot a lot
of outlying communities. Yeah, having an AX is normal in Canada.
It would be abnormal for people not to have an
AX unless you live directly in the city. Yeah, and
even then, if you're camping, you're going to have an AX.
So I don't. It's really difficult because that's really the
(12:00):
only thing that physically ties him to that, and it's
not even found.
Speaker 4 (12:04):
It's the acts hasn't been found that it's the only
thing is a receipt, but there isn't proof that he
was the one that bought it because they couldn't find
any video surveillance in the shop. They also didn't speak
to anybody from the shop and asked them to sort
of corroborate whether he was the person that bought these items,
(12:26):
which is difficult to do five years later. Yeah, but
that really is the only evidence, and his confession which
can be presumed to have been false after twenty two
days in isolation.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
And he's also recently.
Speaker 4 (12:41):
Got a diagnosis of paranoid schizophrenia as well.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
Yeah, when were his computer searches? Were they while he
was in prison or after or sorry, before he went
to prison?
Speaker 2 (12:52):
They were before?
Speaker 3 (12:54):
They were before I went to prison, Yeah, which is
also kind of indicative of because a lot of murderers
look up the crimes that they've committed, Yeah, to see
what people know or see what the police know.
Speaker 4 (13:07):
I'm not entirely sure if he deliberately looked them up
or if he just read them sort of coming across them.
I mean, I read about murder articles like at least
once a day. You know, I don't actively search for them,
but you know, they pop up on my Reddit account,
or they prop up on the news or whatever. So
I'm not entirely sure if he actually soot them out
(13:28):
or if he just sort of came across them.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
Okay to me, I don't feel that there was enough
there for a conviction. Yeah, and I think they really
should have put his mental health into the case. Yeah,
that's huge.
Speaker 4 (13:40):
You know, it really shocked me to hear about the
isolation cell in Canada of all places, Like I couldn't
quite get my head around that, Like, it just seemed
quite barbaric.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
Every prison has it. It's called the whole. Some inmates
enjoy going to the hole because it's a bit of peace,
especially if they're being picked on. Most of them don't.
Twenty two days is quite cruel. People don't cope well with.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
Isolation plus nine afterwards.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
Yeah, there's different reasons you go to the whole. If
you're going to the hole for being naughty, then obviously
they're going to be treated a little bit differently. If
you're going for your own protection, you might have a
little bit more of a nice time there, like you
might get more conversation, you might get more potentially exercise time.
But it's not pleasant. I mean, they have to have them.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
No, I get that.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
It's not like, you know, like they don't have anything
in there or anything like that. It's more just like
you're in there by yourself.
Speaker 4 (14:35):
Yeah, no, from the way it was described that there
was literally there was nothing in there. You know, there
was a mattress on the floor type thing, which is
what I was picturing.
Speaker 3 (14:45):
If you're suicide risk, yeah then I think you wouldn't
be able to have much. But yeah, that's way too
long in an isolation cell, especially if you've got a
mental health issue.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
I think so as well.
Speaker 4 (14:54):
I don't think anyone's going to have better mental health
being put in isolation for that long.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
It's gonna help anybody.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
I'm trying to think. Because they're federal, the prisons there
are federal, and I'm trying to think back now because
one of my spouses worked at one, I've got that many.
I don't think that they did longer than four or
five days in the hole. From memory, Yeah, quite a
long time too, and that would be quite a sentence.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
But that's my case.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
It was very good.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Thank you. Okay, we're back.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
We are back, and I from my Haunted by their
Victims case, I'm going to be talking about Jose Feriia Ferrera,
very fair Era Ferira. There's a lot of ours in
his name.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
I had a lot of els. You have a lot
of ours anyway.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
Jose was born in Milwaukee in nineteen sixty five into
what I believe was a Native American family. Okay, he
was a Native American. Assume he had Native American family,
but I added that part in for umph. Not much
as really known about his childhood. I couldn't find anything
on it, right. But by the time he was a teenager,
(16:11):
he was into teenager shit. He was skipping school, going
to parties, and taking drugs. Nothing like catastrophic. Was just
being a teenager.
Speaker 4 (16:19):
Go.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
So in nineteen eighty two, Jose was seventeen years old
when he attended a house party, and at that house party,
he met thirteen year old Carrie Ann Joepek, who was
also skipping school with friends. And she was doing that too.
She could go to the party. Okay, she was quite
young actually to be doing that. Thirteen. Yeah, did I
(16:40):
skip school at thirteen? I don't think I did. I
think I was still under the influence of authority. She
was like a really bright, happy girl. But according to
her mother, she grew up just way too fast, Like
she was just one of these girls who was, like,
you know, from ten years old to thirteen in the
blank and I and probably acted about eighteen. At the party,
(17:03):
Jose and Carrie and met out or chatting. He offered
her a joint, which she took, but was coughing quite
a bit when she took it, so she's really not
really like used to it. He asked her to go
to the basement with him and you know, make out
and do whatever. I think he wanted to have sex,
and she initially agreed, but then has second thoughts on
(17:25):
the way down the stairs and she was like, I
don't sort of turned to him with I don't think
this is a good idea. Okay, like a smart girl.
M He became frustrated at that. Bear in mind he's
also high, so you know, like he's I don't know,
he's just maybe not thinking as clearly as normal. Yeah,
And he pushed her downstairs, where she fell unconscious at
the bottom. So he went down and he began sexually
(17:48):
assaulting her while she was knocked out, thinking it was
sort of a good opportunity to get what he wanted
while she was unconscious. Gosh, okay, yeah, I know. But
afterwards when he tried I had to pick her up
and you know, like get her conscious again, he realized
that she had actually like broken her neck on the
fall down and she was dead. O yeah, wow, yeah,
(18:11):
I mean it actually feels like a horror movie or
like one of those weird, twisty turny dark movies.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
So Jose then took Carrie Anne's body out through the
basement window and he buried her underneath the neighbor's front porch.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Well, the party was still going on, Yeah, okay, right.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
I mean, yards in America are big, so I'm assuming
that it was you know, not lit up, and you know,
there was just probably a huge amount of space in between. Okay,
Apparently he when he like after he finished like burying her,
he probably couldn't do that good job because it was
under a porch and he was high and freaked out
and all this stuff. He could still see some of
her hair because it was quite long, sticking out of
(18:52):
the ground when he left the scene. On March sixteenth,
nineteen eighty two, Carrie Anne's mother reported her missing, and
on the very same day, she also learned that the
seventh grader had been suspended for cutting classes from her school. Okay,
so like that's when her mom basically found out everything
(19:12):
that was going on.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Gosh, it makes us send even younger when you say
seventh grader, doesn't it.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
Oh she was she was just I mean, she was
just a baby. She'd only just came thirteen.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Oh goshes sad.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
So seventeen months later, in August of nineteen eighty three,
a contractor working on the neighbor's house found the remains
of Carry Anne buried under front porch.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
And they hadn't smelled anything and all that time, I know.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
I thought that was weird too, But then you know,
growing up in sort of rural areas, there's shit dying
all the time, and yeah, cats and dogs buried dead
animals under porches, But I mean, a dead body smell
was really quite strong.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
Maybe the weather conditions made it so that by the
time the heat came around, she had already like gone
through most of the process. That makes sense. Yeah, yeah,
So an autopsy showed that Carrie Anne died as a
result of bleeding inside her skull from a severe head
and neck injuries, a broken egg obviously, and probably skull fractures.
Jose was questioned at this point because of the party
(20:14):
and because a neighbor recalled seeing him acting strangely and
crying that night, okay, but he denied any involvement and
no charges were laid. There was nothing to really link
him to it. He was just, you know, he probably
came up with some excuse like whatever, there was drama
or something, right, So Jose would later tell Carrin's mother,
(20:37):
your daughter is haunting me, which is perhaps why. Thirty
years later, on the eleventh of October twenty fifteen, Jose,
out of the blue, called a crisis hotline and told
the story of a young girl falling down a flight
of stairs and dying. The same day, Jose called WSN
twelve news in Milwaukee and he told them the same story.
(21:00):
And then on that same day, Jose's wife went to
a West Milwaukee police station and told an officer that
her husband had confessed to being responsible for the nineteen
eighty two killing of a girl he had buried under
a porch.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Oh wow.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
Two days later, during his interview with police, he gave
a full account of the entire night. Due to minimal
evidence at the scene, the case like absolutely would probably
have never been sold. I mean, it was a thirty
year old cold case and there was nothing physical tying
him to the murder. Without Jose coming forward, there would
have been absolutely nothing.
Speaker 4 (21:35):
Yeah, and he probably would have gotten away with it
until he died.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
One hundred percent. He would have absolutely In twenty seventeen,
Jose was initially charged with second degree murder, but due
to the lack of physical evidence, prosecutors offered him a
plea deal. Basically, you know, like his lawyers probably told
him to fight it a wee bit because you know,
like you can get a better deal or whatever, and
he ended up pleading guilty to attempt to second degree
(22:00):
sexual assault with USU force and false imprisonment for pushing
her into the basement against her will.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
Wow. So not even any death charges, no marder, no manslaughter, nothing.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
Nothing, to be fair, I don't think intent was there,
you know, at all. I don't think he ever intended
to kill her.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
It's manslaughter.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
It would be manslaughter, but I think manslaughter tends to
get pled down quite a bit as well if it
is like pure manslaughter. I'm not trying to like say
he didn't murder her, but I don't think he murdered
her with intent. So I can understand why they offered
him a plea deal, especially given that there was. It
was all on him confessing m So he will be
serving seven years in prison. The sentencing was one day
(22:44):
over thirty five years since Carrie Anne's death. That was
twenty seventeen, so math twenty twenty four I think is
when he'll come out of prison. Okay, he expressed remorse
the whole time, and her parents were set aside with
the outcome as well. Oh right, okay, yeah, he's spoken
to the mother. I mean, he was a young teenager himself,
(23:08):
not excusing any of the behavior, but there was no
intent and I don't think he ever foresaw the outcome
of her dying. I don't think that was ever the thing,
and he was just being a stupid teenager doing stupid
shit and being a complete sexual deviant.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
Yeah, completely.
Speaker 4 (23:24):
I mean, he didn't intend to murder her, but he
did intend to, you know, sexually assault her.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
Yeah. I don't think he knew her age at the time.
Speaker 4 (23:33):
No, no, but he still assaulted her when she was unconscious,
and even if she didn't become unconscious, he probably would
have sexually assaulted her if she had survived, and.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
If she hadn't made it back up to the main floor,
I think he would have Yeah, she'd clearly already withdrawn
her consent and he was still going to do it.
So at that point like it was completely in the
wrong and he should be serving time for that. So
I got all this from the Milwaukee Journal, Sentinel, CBS News,
and the Huffington Post, and they were all from twenty seventeen.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
These articles brilliant, good case, Holly, Thanks, you're welcome. Alright,
we're back.
Speaker 3 (24:16):
We are back.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (24:18):
I think we sort of said in the break there
that this is going to be fairly easy. I think
to conclude, Yeah, do you want to go first?
Speaker 3 (24:28):
Well, given that your girl was hacked to death with
a fucking axe and my girl died instantly falling down
the stairs, I'm going to go with my guy. Yeah,
I mean push me down the stairs, kill me instantly. Please,
I don't want to be happy for an acts.
Speaker 4 (24:44):
I think if we're going solely on death, then yes,
that's exactly what I would pick as well. It's the
only thing that's making me sort of semi doubt. It
is just a vect that she was so young, you know,
she was only thirteen. Yeah, that is a bit of
a stickler for me, But I don't I think it
quite outweighs the being hacked to death with an axe, death.
Speaker 3 (25:05):
In the defensive ones. I mean, you know you're death
with an axe. You It's not like hit once in
the head and you don't know. It's like you are
fighting for your life against an axe.
Speaker 4 (25:17):
And that's got to be so painful and so terrifying,
so scary. Yes, so I think we are in agreement
this week that we are both picking your case.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
Yes, we are going to be thrown down the stairs. Yes,
yes we are.
Speaker 4 (25:32):
So thank you all for listening, and we hope we've
enjoyed this. And if you have enjoyed it, if you
give us a little rate and review on iTunes or
Google Podcasts or Amazon.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Music or wherever you're listening, that would be lovely.
Speaker 4 (25:48):
And if you feel like your friends would enjoy it,
your family would enjoy it, why don't you just send
our information over to them and let them know we
would really appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
Thank you very much.
Speaker 3 (26:00):
Yeah, why don't you just do it? Also give us
a shout out on Instagram, Twitter, facebook page, facebook group,
send us some suggestions for themes and cases. Even if
you feel strongly about a certain case, not saying we're
definitely gonna do it, but we'll definitely look at it.
Speaker 4 (26:23):
I just got a flashback there. I don't know if
you remember this, when one time we were doing this conclusion
there and I took your part and I said your
lines and you were looking at me with such rage.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
I don't know why. I just got a flashback of
that there, but that I.
Speaker 3 (26:39):
Just like, well, what do I do with my life now?
Speaker 2 (26:43):
Struggle through been like, I don't know what I'm saying now.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
I was just like, I don't know. Just talk to us.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
Anyway, little side note there. We will see y'all next week, guys,
we will Bye Bye Bye.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
Which is hosted by Speaker and is recorded in a
secret location in Scotland. Can find us wherever you listen
to your podcasts. Email us at which Murderer at gmail
dot com or visit our website at which murderer dot com.
We are also on Instagram, Reddit and Twitter. Just look
for the app which Murderer account or hashtag. You can
(27:20):
join the debate on our Facebook page and group, interacting
with other our listeners or the which Murderer team. Our
theme music is Kill Me Again by Blue Bend, where
artwork was produced by wild Creations at fiver dot com.
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