December 31, 2024 • 37 mins
Which Murderer Flashback Episode!
In Season 4 Episode 29 the girls wish you a very happy 2022 with MURDER. New Years Murders to be exact. Holly talks about murderer Scott Watson before Mel tells you all about John Allen Mohammad.
The girls continue with the Covid chat which annoys them both, they touch their microphones a lot in this episode so…. good luck listeners, the girls tell you how much they hate New Years Eve but also have a great New Years Eve everyone, Holly chooses a challenging case in regards to the entire premise of the show and the girls spend a lot of time picking their last meals.
Production, recording and postproduction completed by Holly who sent Consulting Producer Craig a case of fireworks that when set off spell HELP HOLLY WITH EVERYTHING.
Holly edited this week. All complaints should be sent directly to Mel while Consulting Producer Craig purchases several fire extinguishers.
www.whichmurderer.com
WARNING - Explicit language, content and themes (plus whatever else will cover us legally). All opinions stated are our own and case information was gathered from legitimate sources within the public realm.
Pre-recorded in Scotland
In Season 4 Episode 29 the girls wish you a very happy 2022 with MURDER. New Years Murders to be exact. Holly talks about murderer Scott Watson before Mel tells you all about John Allen Mohammad.
The girls continue with the Covid chat which annoys them both, they touch their microphones a lot in this episode so…. good luck listeners, the girls tell you how much they hate New Years Eve but also have a great New Years Eve everyone, Holly chooses a challenging case in regards to the entire premise of the show and the girls spend a lot of time picking their last meals.
Production, recording and postproduction completed by Holly who sent Consulting Producer Craig a case of fireworks that when set off spell HELP HOLLY WITH EVERYTHING.
Holly edited this week. All complaints should be sent directly to Mel while Consulting Producer Craig purchases several fire extinguishers.
www.whichmurderer.com
WARNING - Explicit language, content and themes (plus whatever else will cover us legally). All opinions stated are our own and case information was gathered from legitimate sources within the public realm.
Pre-recorded in Scotland
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
If you like, Hello Mill, Hello, Holy Happy New Year's Eve.
Happy New Year's Eve.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Twenty twenty one has almost gone big fuck. I mean,
it wasn't a terrible year.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
No, wasn't as bad as twenty twenty. Twenty twenty was
a bad year.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
I cannot believe we are approaching two years of a
pandemic nob two years in March. That's crazy and we're
still talking about it. Well, it's still fucking happening because
now we've got a South African variant. At time of recording,
we've just found out about that. Yeah, there's media scared
mungering going on big time as usual. But from what
I've heard and from what I've read in various articles,
(00:56):
it's not as bad as portrayed by the media.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
I think it's dangerous, but not like the media are seeing. Well,
generally speaking, when a virus mutates, it kind of mutates
down in ferocity, like it just gets weaker as it mutates.
If it mutates with something new that's really kinky, yes,
then it's bad. However, it's reached their shoes very quickly
it will. It reached Ida and the SdeA we live,
(01:23):
and very quickly as we will the thing is like,
you cannot control the virus. Everybody's like, oh, well, lockdown,
we'll do this. The only way you can do that
is if you entirely lock your country down and have
absolutely no commerce nothing. And that's not good. No, I mean,
the better thing is to get the immunity up. Yes,
so go out and get vaccinated people. If you don't
believe vaccinations, that's cool.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Exactly opinion, but yes, get vaccinated. I'm just I'm just
happy to being jat. But anything that's going to hit
with COVID, yes, anything. And we watched Martina oh shit,
very much murder and also the COVID podcast. Uh, I
think stop. I know, I think they'll every podcast has
covered COVID. Probably it's in some respect because it touches.
(02:04):
It touches everyone's life, unfortunately, and there's no escape. I know,
I know, but I'm just I just think the sensible
way to go about it now is don't believe everything
you read. Yeah, and only listen to the scientists, tific
people or the medical people or whatever, the people that
know their stuff, and don't panic and just look after
yourself when you're close ones.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Yeah, and you know what, worst case scenario. If they're
injecting you with something weird, you'll make the news. In
like fifty years, there'll be a news story internal barcodes
and things. And I think, think of the profits from
your future lawsuit. Yeah, there'll be films about this.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Will all make so much money.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
We will be so famous.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
And it's all good. We're over the worst of it.
We're just seeing it through to the end. Now it's
not going to go away.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
We're going to have to live with it. But it's
all good. I just think it's hilarious. England now have
to wear their mask and and everyone in Scotland's like
we've always had to do it.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
I know, it's just it shouldn't have stopped. But you know,
but I have to know. When I was down there,
it's nice.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
It was nice. Not I know, I do agree, I
do agree.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
I was like I realized, like I just went into
the mode of going to shopping, put my mask on
as a normally would, or into cafe, I think, and
everyone's looking at me strangely, and I'm like, why is
no one wearing a mask?
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Oh yeah?
Speaker 2 (03:14):
And you feel look an idiot for actually taking preventative measures.
I know, but it shouldn't have stopped, but they least
said about the Prime minister the better Hi is so amazing.
Let's not get political, no, So yes, twenty twenty two
is almost nearly upon it, which means we're going to
talk about New Year murders. Yes, because unfortunately people all
escape mergers a new year.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Yeah. I mean there is so much opportunity at New Year.
There's the fireworks that cover bullets, ah, you know.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Mask all sounds, masks, there's copious amounts of alcohol and
must people systems. Yes, there's fuck it, I've had a
shit year. What's the worst that can happen on? Just
do something even worse? Yeah, exactly, Yes, and there's people
that are probably Yeah, New Year's not a nice time
for a lot of people.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
It's not. It's a lot of the time of reflection
is narrowly good, especially if you've lost family during the Yeah. Definitely.
A lot of marriages break down over the holidays, says
because it's quite an intense period and that's where the
cracks appear.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
And yeah, and that's when people think I'm not going
into another year living this life.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
So it's a time of sort of reflection, a time
of change, isn't it for a lot of people. I'm
not a massive fan of it, I must say I'm
not either. No, I just I don't understand. I think
when I was younger, I was probably into it more.
But now I'm like, I don't understand the emphasis of
having the best night of the year on New Year's Eve.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Yeah. No, And I'm like, for better nights.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
In June, you know what I mean, where I don't
need to have planned and do something major, you know,
go out somewhere where it's going to You're going to
spend so much money getting into places and so much
money trying to get home. And I'm like, I don't
understand the need for it all. I'm just like, i'd
quite happily just do whatever.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
We're going away to our hotel, ourselves and seeing nobody. Yeah,
we're going to quite a strangers. Like we don't want
to have to deal with anything. It's just it's just
too much, and it's like, you know what, I'd rather
just spend it quietly, Yeah, enjoy the evening. And then
all of a sudden it's January and you're like, Okay,
let's do January.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
I know it's just another night. It's not like a
big deal. So yes, I hope you all enjoy your
New Year's Eve. We've but but I think it's each
to the door and nobody should be creationed into doing
anything they don't want to do just because.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
It's New Year's Eve. Yeah, exactly, So I'm sure'd everybody
spend it the way they want.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
To and they should.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Yes, yes, I hope you al all have a good
New Year's yeaes. But I'm going to tell you what
people who didn't have good ones? Yes. Yeah. So in
December of nineteen ninety seven, friends Ben Smart, who was
twenty one, and Olivia Hope who was seventeen, traveled to
for Now Lodge in the Marlborough Sounds area of New Zealand,
(05:46):
and they were going for a massive New Year's Eve party.
There were expected to be between fifteen hundred and two
thousand other partygoers there whoa my idea of hell, yes,
shoot me out total hell. Olivia had traveled separately from
Ben around in a group on a chartered yacht oh
m hm. At around four am on New Year's Day,
the lodge bartender Guy Wallace drove Olivia and Ben in
(06:09):
his water taxi back to the same yacht Olivia had
arrived on earlier, and it was called the Tamarack, and
they planned to sleep on the yacht okay, because there
was like it was very limited sleeping arrangements.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Uh huh.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
So Ben and Olivia got off the taxi, went on board,
but then they found out all the beds had been taken.
So they got back in the water taxi and there
were three other passengers in the water taxi with them. Okay.
One of the taxi's passengers was a single man, and
he offered the pair a place to sleep on what
he said was his yacht. Guy dropped the three of them.
(06:42):
So the couple of friends and the single man off
at the yacht and took his other two passengers to
their stops. Okay, and then that was the last time
Ben and Olivia were seen alive. Oh. So, on the
second of January nineteen ninety eight, Ben and Olivia were
reported missing. So it was like a full day. I
think people would give.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
A full day for hangovers, yeah, because they knew the
probably need to be a big party. Yeah, and then
you wouldn't expect to hear from them.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Yeah. So January second, they were reported missing with the
Blenheim Police initially treating the case as a missing person's case.
It soon became obvious, though, that their disappearances were suspicious
and totally out of character for the couple, Like obviously
they weren't a couple, but the pair. They were very
reliable people, very responsible people, and I would have been.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
In contact with people, so not like them at all.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
Not like them at all. And the police began almost
immediately to investigate it as a homicide. Okay, then they
named the task force. They actually formed a task force
to deal with this, and it was called Operation Tam
Tam and it gained a lot of attention from the
public and media. Okay, obviously, like two young kids going
(07:54):
to the same year's at a really famous party, it's
going to get attention.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
So despite exhaustive searches, their bodies were never found. Oh god.
So police had nothing solid to go on. There was
no crime scene, no bodies, so they had to focus
on something else, and that was the single man from
the water taxi who offered them a place to sleep. Okay, guy.
The taxi driver described the man as having a couple
(08:21):
of days growth on his face, possible arm tattoos, he
wasn't sure, wiry build, about five foot nine, short, wavy
hair which was dark, scruffy, and wearing Levi's and a shirt. Okay,
guy was adamant it was the same man he and
the other staff had served earlier at the party. Oh
so he did the party, so he recognized this man
(08:43):
from earlier in the evening.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
A man named Scott Watson, who was born in nineteen
seventy one, was identified by several witnesses as matching the description,
and police quickly tracked him down on his home built sloop.
Oh get Oh so, witnesses said Scott was very drunk
on the night of the party, was confrontational, had been
rudely trying to pick up more than twenty women that night,
(09:06):
and reportedly even hit one woman in the face. Oh so,
people are going to domain beyh'm name for that. Yeah.
He sounds like a real fucking asshole.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Scott had forty eight criminal convictions on his record.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Forty eight. Jesus, he's not kipt himself quite at all,
has he not.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
He's been busy so for like burglary, theft, cannabis offenses,
weapons possessions, assaults, stuff like that optal source opt all sorts,
and in prison he had been assessed as a racist
who had problems with aggression. Okay, lovely h good mix,
good mix. Most of his convictions had been in his youth, though,
(09:47):
and he had been mainly trouble free in the last
eight years okay, prior to the disappearance. So he looked
like he had turned his knife around, even though again
reportedly he was acting like a complete whink. So all
of Scott's friends and associates indicated that he was aggressive
towards women, okay, threatening and talking about rape.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
One person claimed he had even said he could get
away with murder. But again, you never know, like people
say after thet.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Yeah exactly, Yeah, that could be a fly week. R
mean I've been taken lectually, Yeah, yeah exactly. I mean
how many times have we said, oh god, you can
see nobody and martyr them. You don't mean you're going
to do that?
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Exactly exactly. Guy the taxi driver said he had dropped
the three off at a two masted wouldn't catch is
what it's called, which police were unable to identify and
suspected did not even exist. Really yep, because of the suspicion,
many reports of settings were ignored. It was discovered, however,
that the area guy said he dropped them off is
(10:50):
where Scott's boat was tied up that night. Okay, so
I guess maybe he's remembering it incorrectly. Yeah, but the
police do not believe that the boat he described existed, right, interesting. Yeah,
so the investigation began to become messy. Okay, the relationship
between the police and guy the taxi driver broke down
(11:11):
when they told him the wooden boat didn't exist, and
then they started putting like a lot of pressure on him,
like almost interrogating him.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
Yeah that's a lot though, I mean, he's under pressure
to remember so much from something that in such a
short space of time. Yeah, but you would overanalyze and
oh yeah, you would go mad.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
He didn't really help though, because he also fabricated a
story about going to find the wooden boat.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Oh no, that's not going to help your cause.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
And the descriptions was changing again. But again, like he
might be the kind of person who just wants to
please the police and give answer.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Yeah, he really might be feeling so much potentious from it. Yeah,
that can go many ways, can to it can't. That's
why you need to be careful when you're like definitely, definitely.
Guy was also shown photo montages of Scott and was
unable to pick him out until the third montage he
was shown and aprol of nineteen ninety eight was got
looks scruffier and had his eyes half closed. So he
(12:05):
was shown like several times between the murder and April.
You can begin to understand the police reluctance kind of Yeah,
it's not great, No, it's not it's not like they've
got someone like a totally reliable witness.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
If you had put to mail the first lineup and
said that is absolutely m Yeah. If he had described
the guy's boat with any shade of doubt, yeah, I
think he would have. I think they would have been
more likely to believe him without questions. Oh yeah yeah.
So Scott was arrested on the fifteenth of June nineteen
ninety eight, and the trial began on the tenth of
June nineteen ninety nine.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
So the verse died, someone got and nobody's nobody and
no evident jilim okay m.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Much of the Crown's evidence was circumstantial okay, and relied
heavily on witness statements. Okay, while hair evidence was presented
showing Olivia's hair found on Scott's boat, right, the evidence
bag had a whole, and cross contamination at the lab
was a concern. Oh, so they're trying to put holes
in what evidence they had. So they say they found
(13:08):
Olivia's hair on the boat cannot be explained away potentially
because they shared a taxi together. Yep, you know it's
it's not a nail in the cough.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
No, definitely No.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
Scott had made a lot of changes to the boat
though immediately after the murders, including replacing parts and painting
it not suspicious, that's a bit suspicious. In September nineteen
ninety nine, after an eleven week trial, Scott was found
guilty and sentenced to life with no parole for a
minimum of seventeen years. He has always maintained his innocence,
(13:38):
but has lost all of his appeals. In March of
twenty twenty one, oh this year, guy died. Guy the
taxi driver died by suicide suddenly, with a case being
referred to the corner. Oh oh no, so the main
witness has now died. The I mean, I said yeah, so,
(14:02):
oh that's dodgy. It's all very strange. It's very strange.
It's it's a bit like making a murder where there's
evidence but it's not locked in and there's nobody.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
So much ambiguity to that and the fact that he
has lost all of his appeals get the like Steven
Avidy Actually, yeah, very like Steven Avery, who, by the way,
I still think it. I absolutely think is guilty. But
I think you got a wrong trial. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
I'm in the middle. I know, I know you need
to listen out. I'll tell you after. With the witness
now being dead, like why did he kill himself? Who knows?
It could be.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
He's the most stable witness, the most he's the only Yeah,
there's the other couple in the boat, but they had
trouble remembering.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
Details and stuff like that, so he was the one
who was adamant. So now this guy has like a
real I don't know, chance maybe of saying I mean
he'd been on the straight and narrow for eight years. Yes,
he had some really shitty streaks him. Oh yeah, I
just don't know if that was enough to convince.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
I know, I know, And there's no bodies. Yeah, and
if he's done it, those bodies have going into the sea,
haven't they.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
Oh yeah, definitely trying to find that. I know, I
know that's true. And he was there, like his boat
was there, so like it's not like he went anywhere.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Yeah, he didn't want to weave from it. No, as such,
it's a tough one. It's a tough I don't know.
I don't know how i'd what we had go if
I was on a judy there. Yeah, because it's it's tough.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
The hilarious part is I've picked this murder and I
have no idea how they died. Yeah, actually we don't. Yeah,
we're That was a good one. I enjoyed that. I
don't know.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
That was from Wikipedia. Good one, Thank you, and we're back.
We are back for my turn. So mine's it's a
different twist on year murders.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
Is it now? I decided to go down a different
route mainly because when I'm in my research, I wasn't
finding something that had a lot of what shall I say, a.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
Lot of background to it, and I wasn't in love
with anything I was finding online. So I've gone for
someone who was born in New Year's Eve fair enough.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
It's listen, swampy af. Like I said to you after
the Swamp Murders episode, I have zero legs to stand
on for the rest of the year. I was messeding
you going, I don't like this.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
So he was born in New YUS, which still is
still relative, still New US. It's relative to the subject.
It is indeed, I'm standing by it. So I'm going
to talk about John Allen Muhammed. He was born John
Allen Williams on December thirty first, nineteen sixty in New Orleans, Louisiana.
He was raised by his aunt in Baton Rouge and
(16:56):
by the way, that's somewhere I've always wanted to visit.
Oh my god, yes, I always wanted to visit. After
his mother died when he was four of beast cancer.
After high school, Johin got married to a lady called
Carol and joined the Louisiana Army National Guard. They had
a son named Lyndebert, and at first his military career
seemed promising. He was described as personable and outgoing by
(17:17):
one of his commanders, but by the early nineteen eighty
his cracks were beginning to show, and his Fasat. He
got trouble a couple of times, once for failing to
report for duty and another time for hitting an officer.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
Which is not cool. It's not ideal.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Hiding your boss is not cool in that sense, in
the army sense. No no, no, no no, it won't get you far,
will it.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
No No, I mean they don't like it.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
No no. However, he turned his life around in nineteen
eighty five, separated from his wife, converted to Islam, and
joined the US Army. It wasn't until October two thousand
and one that he changed his name to Muhammad from Williams.
He was stationed in Washington State and later married a
lady called Mildred Greene. The couple had three children. The
(18:02):
army seemed to be a good fit for John, at
least for a time. He became a skilled marksman and
served in Germany in the Middle East during the Gulf War.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
He became restless, though, and left the military in nineteen
ninety four. Tried to start his own business twice, first
with an auto mechanic shop and then a karate school.
Wow but you know, wildly different. But both ventures failed. Unfortunately,
in nineteen ninety nine. His second wife, Mildred, twelve with divorce,
and the next year she got a restraining order against
John because of the threats he made against her. Oh shit,
(18:34):
so it doesn't sound like he's turned over that much
of a new leaf.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
I think I think you put the leaf back on him. Yes. Yes.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Shortly after the straining order was issued, John fled to
Antigua with the couple's three children.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
Oh fuck, asshole.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
Oh no, you don't do that to a mum. You
just don't do that. You don't do to the kids either,
like those kids neither.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
Imagine just taking your children run away A plus the location,
Uh huh. If anyone's going, dug may take me to Antigua.
But still a dick move. Yeah yeah, not cool to
the children. Van off Antigua.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
It's believed that this is also where he met his
future accomplice, who was called Lee Boyd Malvo. John later
returned to the United States, settling in Bellingham in Washington
with his children. Soon, however, police officers found him and
returned the children to their mother's custody, and she moved
with them to Maryland. Good Enraged over the loss of
(19:29):
his children, John began to fixate on Lee, who had
moved to Bellingham with his mother that October. They together
lived in a homeless shelter and developed a disturbing father
son dynamic. John seemed to control every aspect of Lee's life,
imposing an exercise program and a special diet, one that
proportedly consisted of just honey and crackers at one point.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
A wee bit weird and that's not a real diet,
A big bit weird. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Lee and his mother were taken into custody by emigration
officials in December two thousand and one.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
For being in the country. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
They were released while waiting for the heating, and John
was soon reunited with them. He began to teach Lee
how to use a gun, and they use a tree
stump in a friend's yard for target practice.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
That sounds about right for America, as you do.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
By the fall of two thousand and two, or the
autumn as we call it, John and Lee had moved
on from tree stumps to real life victems.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
They were involved in a liquor store shooting in Alabama
before beginning their assault in Washington, DC area in October.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Oh, just pause, can somebody in the world Please explain
to me why it's always a liquor store shooting, and
it always is. What is it about liquor stores? Are
you there for the liquor? Are you there for the money?
The poor passage that worked there? I mean, I am
not condoning anybody who were holding up everyone. No, but surely, like,
(20:48):
do you know how much money women spend a tophara?
Like yep, I mean, don't.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Victoria's secret or Victoria's secret. Don't don't go hold up
any of those because it's all like you're not going
to get You're not going to get mega money in
a liquor store. No, but they must think they're less
security conscious than most other places. Like if you went
to Sephora or whatever else, I would think that there'd
be more. No, I would not a liquor store. Not
a liquor store on a street. No, okay, you're not
(21:15):
going to have a security guarden the door. You're not
going to have like machines that beep as you walk
in and out if you've stolen something.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
It's going to be quite low grade. I can't imagine
anybody would get much out of rubbing anything. Now, because
everybody pays a car.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
Yeah, exactly strange, But yeah, a liquor store. It seems
like an easy target, really, doesn't it. But it is
always a liquor store anyway. So they started at a
liquor store, went off to Washington where they started getting
up to no good. John's ex wife, Mildred and three
children lived in nearby Maryland, and they would reported that
John stopped the family around the time of these sniper
(21:49):
attacks that.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
Were reported in Washington, DC. Oh shit.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
A skilled mechanic, John put his talents to evil use,
making a sniper nest out of the trunk of his car.
Heat and Lee worked as a team in the shooting,
with one man fighting a rifle and the others watching
the victims die. They often targeted people doing simple every
day tasks, such as pumping the gas or leaving a store.
In total, they killed ten people and injured three others
in the Washington.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
DC area.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
I remember this happening, Yeah, I vaguely remember it too. Actually,
after several killings, John and Lee began to taunt the police.
They left a note on a tarret card that read,
mister policeman, I am God. After one shooting, the police
were stumped as they seemed to be no motive or
pattern to the attacks. Then the snipers demanded ten million
dollars to stop the shootings, but the reil break in
(22:36):
the case came from phone calls to a tip line
and to two priests from someone claiming to be the sniper.
He pointed them in direction of an earlier Alabama shooting.
At the scene of the crime, Lee had dropped a
brochure which had one of his fingerprints on it. The
fingerprint was matched on file with the immigration records, giving
the authorities their first suspect, Silly Old Dogs. On October
(22:58):
twenty four, two thousand and two, more than two twenty
days after the rampage began, the authorities surrounded the vehicle
in which John and Lee were in. They were taken
into custard and arrested. Since they committed crimes in several states,
the authorities had to decide where the pair should be tried. First,
I guess they went for the death body, and then
they went they had separate trials because of that. Also,
the prosecution called more than one hundred and thirty witnesses
(23:20):
and introduced more than four hundred pieces of evidence intended
to prove that John undertook the murders and ordered Lee
to help carry them out. Evidence included a rifle found
in John's car that was linked with that was linked
by ballistics tests to eight of the ten killings in
the Washington area and two other killings in Louisiana and Alabama.
The car, which was modified so that a sniper could
(23:40):
shoot from the inside of the trunk, had a laptop
computer that was also found in the car. It contained
maps with icons pinpointing shooting scenes back. So you've pretty
much got you're on the money now, aren't really? I mean,
just if you don't confess, then you were an idiot already.
You've left a trail of evidence behind you. You might have
just written I did it yeah on the map on
(24:02):
that Witness accounts put John across the street from one
shooting and as carne the scene of several others. There
was also a recorded phone called to a police hot
line in which a man, his voice identified by detective
as John's, demanding money in exchange for stopping the shootings.
So not clever, I mean, they're never going to pay
you to stop shooting. Ten million dollars, I mean, aim
(24:24):
low for goodness sake, ten million dollars really. On November
the seventeen, two thousand and three, John was convicted of
all four counts in his indictment case against him, capital
murder under Virginia's Anti terrorism statute, for homicide committed with
an intent to terrorize the government or the public at large,
conspirator to commit murder, and I llegal use of a
(24:45):
firearm In the penalty phase of the child the jury,
after a five hours of deliberation over two days, unanimously
recommended that John be sentenced to death. On March nine,
two thousand and four, a Virginia judge agreed with the
jury's recommendation and sends us him to death. On May
the thirty, two thousand and six, John was tried in
Maryland and a jury found him guilty of six kunts
(25:06):
of murdered. Also, he was sentenced to six consecutive life
terms without possibility of parole. Neither Alabama, Arizona, Louisiana, or
Washington moved to try John given his death sentence for
murder in Virginia area.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
Yeah, I know, they'll just keep that in their back pack.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
It Lee, his accomplice, was also sentenced to a term
of life without parole for his role in the shootings.
On November the tenth, two thousand and nine, hours before
John's scheduled execution, pleas for clemency made by his attorneys
were denied by the Virginia governor. Under Virginia law, an
inmate was allowed to choose the method by which he
or she would put to death, which.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
I didn't know.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
I didn't know that, which would obviously either be lethal
injection or electriccian. As John declined to select a method
by law, the method then went to lethal injection that
was automatically selected for him. He was offered a selection
of a last meal, which he accepted, and apparently as
attorney told the press that this was a smell that
consisted of chicken and red sauce and some cakes.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
Okay, pretty bloody basic. That's a pretty basic menu. Yeah,
but he was military, wasn't he. Yeah?
Speaker 2 (26:09):
I suppose fair enough. I would go all out for
my last meal if that was me. But you know,
oh my god, it's a different conversation. I'm just thinking now,
like what would I would I have? But you know,
how can you enjoy it? We would enjoy it as
much because you'd be like Okay, we'll do I now,
I guess it depends if you've accepted your dath or not.
I want something tasty.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
No, yeah, me too.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
John declined to make a final statement, and his execution
began at nine pm at the Greensville Correctional Center in
Greensville County, Virginia. According to the official statement of the
prison spokesperson, the actual lethal injection process starts at nine
oh six and he was pronounced dead at nine to
eleven pm. His body was cremated and his ashes giving
ashes giving to his son in Louisiana. And that all
(26:53):
came from Wikipedia.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Very good, thank you. We are back back to conclude.
So we don't know how yours died. Let's just assume
that they were somehow knocked out and thrown overboard. Thrown
overboard because there was no blood on the boat. No
blood found. But he decorated. Yeah, but they can still
(27:16):
find like blue lighters. But did he not like renovate
parts of the boat like you placed some parts occupaented
but that won't get rid of blood. Yeah, okay, so
I'm going to guess that they blue lighted it. If
they didn't, they're freaking idiots.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
If they found no blood evidence. I'm going to guess
that they were knocked out, however that happened, and possibly
thrown overboard. Yes, perhaps they were strangled and put overboard, but.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
We don't know.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
We don't know.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
Nobody's no evidence, nobody, no crime, and minds were obviously shot.
So I'm probably going to go for you because we
don't know. I kind of like the mystery around yours
to me, yours sounds probably quick and painless, knocked out
and chucked overboard. I would hope that be no sexual
(28:00):
assault in there. I think there probably was, given that
the leading spoke about rape.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
Oh yeah, No, again, we're assuming that he's guilty, but
I know he was the lead one scene with them.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
Yeah, and he did talk about women in the quite
vulgar way.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
He was not great or No.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
I might not pick years then, because there's beouten to
be some some sort of sexual If that.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
Was the motive for him taking them on board, I
would imagine he possibly knocked the man out first. The
poor women. Okay, I'm not picking years.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
Okay, I've just remembered that what you said about women,
So I'm not picking years. I'm picking mine.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
Okay, So I will probably do the same because a
shot that you're not expecting, if you just die instantly,
which hopefully many of them would have done, yes, you
don't really suffer that much. No. No, So for me,
that is far more like appealing a thought yes to
(28:54):
just be like standing popping gas hating my life all
of a sudden gone.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
Yeah, yes, I'm not sure. I suppose. I'm just gonna say,
I'm not sure to agree with the sentencing of the accomplice.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
You think it should have been death as well?
Speaker 2 (29:10):
I don't know, because yeah, I suppose he was questioned
it wasn't he.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
It's well, it doesn't even matter.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
It sounds like he was very much beingwashed by that's
did as well.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
That doesn't matter. We all have free will. But I
think that it comes down to the evidence. The evidence
was the gun was found with the one guy. His
DNA obviously has found on that they could link the
gun directly to him into the murders, whereas the other guy,
it's probably a harder link to make.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Yeah, it is merely an accomplice, then, isn't he.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
Yeah, so I can get why they maybe weren't as
firm about whether he would get convicted it or not,
they probably weren't on the balance of probabilities. And even
though they're not supposed to take it into account, a
jury will be mindful of whether up for death or not. Yeah,
so it will make a difference to how lenient they
(29:59):
are with evidence. And that's just human nature, like they're
not supposed to be, but they will be.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
Okay, So the big and real question is, Yeah, what
you have for your last meal?
Speaker 1 (30:09):
Oh my god, I've been thinking about this so much.
I think it's gonna be steak. Oh nice. You know
you have to have starter main desert.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
Well, some states have now put a cap on what
you can order because people were going all out. They
were sending like two hundreds, three hundred dollars.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
I'm not eating it. And then really, yeah, I think
I would have chicken middle soup because I love chicken
middle soup, or patty because I love patti as well
you do.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Yeah, I think I might be with you in steak.
But then I love mince and potatoes. It's my favorite.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
Oh, I am so good at mince and potatoes.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
By the way, they have to make even have maybe
min some potatoes.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
I know. Do you like roast potatoes or mash pottash
got the mash Okay, So I've done roast and I
do like moastes, but traditional mince and potatoes mash.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
And for a pudding, I'm going to go for like
chocolate fudge cake washed down with a gin and tonic
or a cod.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
Zeo, both just get So there you go.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
That's my answer. If you decidedn't know, it's what you're
having for pudding. So well, I didn't even consider starter,
which would I think I would get?
Speaker 1 (31:17):
You would go for like what'd you call it? What'd
you call? What was? What did you get?
Speaker 2 (31:21):
The last time I would wte for dinner and I
was like, oh my god, I remember the cheese stuff
and the fries. What's what's the what's halloo HALLOOMI? I
couldn't think of the name. I was going to say, Harissa.
That's the cheese as well, isn't it.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
I think Harissa is a spice.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
Is that?
Speaker 1 (31:35):
I thought it was cheese?
Speaker 2 (31:36):
Hallumy fries. I had never tried them till you got them,
and I'm obsessed with them now.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
I like them.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
I'm changing it.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
I'm getting hallomy fries. Oh my god, I don't think
they were last last meal, No, my last meal. I
think I would start with like either thought cheese fondu
or like a oh, I don't know, maybe I'm magic
to shellfish to say no not if I wanted to
kill myself, I could, but I have an understand problem.
(32:04):
Cold teal for a start, I know, No, I think
I would do or I would get like Vietnamese spring rolls.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
Oh nice, they're nice.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
And then I would have the Philly steak, a big.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
Steaks, going to eat you a whale to eat exactly.
It's good that you're working too a dayliney not well, they.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
Can bring it to me early, and I'd have a
baked potato loaded with butter, sour cream and cheese and chives. Nice.
And then for dessert, I think I don't know, I
don't know what I would I'd probably have like i'd
probably have like timbits or something, Yeah, that remind me
of home, twenty timbits nice. And then I would have
(32:46):
like a chocolate milkshake. Oh, you're going to be so
fill in a pepsi max nice. Yeah, I'm hungry, n.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
I know, danger nine pm at night and we're like
I'm going home for a steak.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
I drove, so my sat Nav has taken me, like,
this is the fifteenth different route I've taken to your
place in the middle of nowhere. You need to stick
to one. Well, I never know because it's Google. So
I went down. I started on an a road. I
started and I looked at one point and I was like,
why is she there?
Speaker 2 (33:17):
I have no idea it took me there because you
also you saved me your location and what's happened? I
was like, oh right, okay, yeah, I was in the bathroom.
You actually said you left Chakor. So I stopped and
got a subway. Huh.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
It's pitch blackout. There are no street lights on these
a roads. It is the middle of fucking nowhere. I
am literally just following the car in front of me.
I don't know where it's going, but I'm following it,
trying to eat a tuna sub I've got onions falling out.
There are onions and shit all over my car. Right now,
I smell so good. I reached into the bag and
(33:51):
my hand just came't if I get pulled over right now,
Oh my god. And then I like shoved the cookie
in my mouth and I'm like, it's fine, that's fine,
it's so good. Comfort food, comfort food.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
So you drive to the middle of nowhere, lash countryside,
which is not the middle of nowhere.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
Is the middle of nowhere.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
I love you make it sound like I don't love
any sort of civilization. You don't I do?
Speaker 1 (34:18):
Yes, I do? She really doesn't I do. Anyway, we've concluded,
we have.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
We've had an argument as ever, so we've picked your
nine like how many minute when I'm again, yes, I've
gone way into food now in my head, I'm like food.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
I know Swedish fish, eat Swedish fish.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
Oh, we need to eat my Swedish fish. I never
I have no idea what this is, but I'm going
to go for it anyway. Yeah, so we've concluded we have.
And yes, happy New Year when it comes everybody.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
Oh yeah, happy new Year.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
We shall see you in twenty twenty two. Oh my god, Yeah,
it's twenty twenty two. I want to bring us fuck.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
Probably some more variants and I don't oh, maybe a
lot today or some positivity in their halls, but no,
probably more various. I'm for realism. Twenty twenty two is
going to be a better year. That helps.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
So yeah, in regards to COVID and who knows what's
ahead of us, who knows what's in store. But that's
the excitement of all, isn't it. Yes, maybe we'll be
award winning podcasters in twenty twenty.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
Two, and after listen to this, they're like this, but
how long talking about last nails?
Speaker 2 (35:28):
But happier year to you all, Wishing you health and
happiness for twenty twenty two. Indeed, yes from us on
hogmen ase we call it in Scotland hogmeny.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
Why is it called that?
Speaker 2 (35:38):
I have no idea. I'd love to as a Scottish persson,
I'd love to sit and explain that, but I have
no clue.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
I don't have a clue either hogbeny. But I don't
ever call it hogmeny. I call it New Year's Eve.
I don't have yeah that called.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
This is a country where you live and work, HOLLI
don't point it mean you are true? Yes, So health
and happiness to everyone in twenty twenty two. Thank you
for rougisha port in twenty twenty one.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
Yes, it was amazing. Thank you so much for thank
you're so.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
Much, and thank you for welcoming me with open arms. Oh, yeah,
I've done my I started in May. Uh huh, yeah,
so I've done most of it. I've done most of
the year.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
Yeah. Whoa typical fucking sorry, I just googled this tolmony
many It is sometimes to Robert Burns. Oh no, no,
no no. It is not known exactly where the word
comes from typical Scottish make up a word and let
it stick. But they think it might come from the
French word hog in nine, meaning galaday. Oh okay. It
(36:41):
first became widely used after Mary, Queen of Scott's return
to Scotland term France, so that might fit in.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
I got the wrong historical figure. I knew it was
some day historical had something to do with not Robert Buns,
but made men of Scots. Very different people, yes, very different,
but kind of a shit explanation.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
Yeah, anyway, see you out twenty twenty one.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
Come over and say hi, subscribe, review the lot, the
lot please, and we shall see you in twenty twenty two.
We will, And health and happiness to everyone.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
Happy new here, cheers bye.
Speaker 3 (37:16):
Which Moderer is hosted by Speaker and is recorded in
a secret location in Scotland. Can find us wherever you
listen to your podcasts. Email us at which Murderer at
gmail dot com or visit our website at which murderer
dot com. We are also on Instagram, Reddit and Twitter.
Just look for the app which Murderer account or hashtag.
(37:37):
You can join the debate on our Facebook page and group,
interacting with on our listeners or the which Murderer team.
Our theme music is Kill Me Again by bluebend Our.
Artwork was produced by Wild Creations at fiver dot com
If you like, Hello Mill, Hello, Holy Happy New Year's Eve.
Happy New Year's Eve.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Twenty twenty one has almost gone big fuck. I mean,
it wasn't a terrible year.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
No, wasn't as bad as twenty twenty. Twenty twenty was
a bad year.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
I cannot believe we are approaching two years of a
pandemic nob two years in March. That's crazy and we're
still talking about it. Well, it's still fucking happening because
now we've got a South African variant. At time of recording,
we've just found out about that. Yeah, there's media scared
mungering going on big time as usual. But from what
I've heard and from what I've read in various articles,
(00:56):
it's not as bad as portrayed by the media.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
I think it's dangerous, but not like the media are seeing. Well,
generally speaking, when a virus mutates, it kind of mutates
down in ferocity, like it just gets weaker as it mutates.
If it mutates with something new that's really kinky, yes,
then it's bad. However, it's reached their shoes very quickly
it will. It reached Ida and the SdeA we live,
(01:23):
and very quickly as we will the thing is like,
you cannot control the virus. Everybody's like, oh, well, lockdown,
we'll do this. The only way you can do that
is if you entirely lock your country down and have
absolutely no commerce nothing. And that's not good. No, I mean,
the better thing is to get the immunity up. Yes,
so go out and get vaccinated people. If you don't
believe vaccinations, that's cool.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Exactly opinion, but yes, get vaccinated. I'm just I'm just
happy to being jat. But anything that's going to hit
with COVID, yes, anything. And we watched Martina oh shit,
very much murder and also the COVID podcast. Uh, I
think stop. I know, I think they'll every podcast has
covered COVID. Probably it's in some respect because it touches.
(02:04):
It touches everyone's life, unfortunately, and there's no escape. I know,
I know, but I'm just I just think the sensible
way to go about it now is don't believe everything
you read. Yeah, and only listen to the scientists, tific
people or the medical people or whatever, the people that
know their stuff, and don't panic and just look after
yourself when you're close ones.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Yeah, and you know what, worst case scenario. If they're
injecting you with something weird, you'll make the news. In
like fifty years, there'll be a news story internal barcodes
and things. And I think, think of the profits from
your future lawsuit. Yeah, there'll be films about this.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Will all make so much money.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
We will be so famous.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
And it's all good. We're over the worst of it.
We're just seeing it through to the end. Now it's
not going to go away.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
We're going to have to live with it. But it's
all good. I just think it's hilarious. England now have
to wear their mask and and everyone in Scotland's like
we've always had to do it.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
I know, it's just it shouldn't have stopped. But you know,
but I have to know. When I was down there,
it's nice.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
It was nice. Not I know, I do agree, I
do agree.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
I was like I realized, like I just went into
the mode of going to shopping, put my mask on
as a normally would, or into cafe, I think, and
everyone's looking at me strangely, and I'm like, why is
no one wearing a mask?
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Oh yeah?
Speaker 2 (03:14):
And you feel look an idiot for actually taking preventative measures.
I know, but it shouldn't have stopped, but they least
said about the Prime minister the better Hi is so amazing.
Let's not get political, no, So yes, twenty twenty two
is almost nearly upon it, which means we're going to
talk about New Year murders. Yes, because unfortunately people all
escape mergers a new year.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Yeah. I mean there is so much opportunity at New Year.
There's the fireworks that cover bullets, ah, you know.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Mask all sounds, masks, there's copious amounts of alcohol and
must people systems. Yes, there's fuck it, I've had a
shit year. What's the worst that can happen on? Just
do something even worse? Yeah, exactly, Yes, and there's people
that are probably Yeah, New Year's not a nice time
for a lot of people.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
It's not. It's a lot of the time of reflection
is narrowly good, especially if you've lost family during the Yeah. Definitely.
A lot of marriages break down over the holidays, says
because it's quite an intense period and that's where the
cracks appear.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
And yeah, and that's when people think I'm not going
into another year living this life.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
So it's a time of sort of reflection, a time
of change, isn't it for a lot of people. I'm
not a massive fan of it, I must say I'm
not either. No, I just I don't understand. I think
when I was younger, I was probably into it more.
But now I'm like, I don't understand the emphasis of
having the best night of the year on New Year's Eve.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Yeah. No, And I'm like, for better nights.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
In June, you know what I mean, where I don't
need to have planned and do something major, you know,
go out somewhere where it's going to You're going to
spend so much money getting into places and so much
money trying to get home. And I'm like, I don't
understand the need for it all. I'm just like, i'd
quite happily just do whatever.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
We're going away to our hotel, ourselves and seeing nobody. Yeah,
we're going to quite a strangers. Like we don't want
to have to deal with anything. It's just it's just
too much, and it's like, you know what, I'd rather
just spend it quietly, Yeah, enjoy the evening. And then
all of a sudden it's January and you're like, Okay,
let's do January.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
I know it's just another night. It's not like a
big deal. So yes, I hope you all enjoy your
New Year's Eve. We've but but I think it's each
to the door and nobody should be creationed into doing
anything they don't want to do just because.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
It's New Year's Eve. Yeah, exactly, So I'm sure'd everybody
spend it the way they want.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
To and they should.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Yes, yes, I hope you al all have a good
New Year's yeaes. But I'm going to tell you what
people who didn't have good ones? Yes. Yeah. So in
December of nineteen ninety seven, friends Ben Smart, who was
twenty one, and Olivia Hope who was seventeen, traveled to
for Now Lodge in the Marlborough Sounds area of New Zealand,
(05:46):
and they were going for a massive New Year's Eve party.
There were expected to be between fifteen hundred and two
thousand other partygoers there whoa my idea of hell, yes,
shoot me out total hell. Olivia had traveled separately from
Ben around in a group on a chartered yacht oh
m hm. At around four am on New Year's Day,
the lodge bartender Guy Wallace drove Olivia and Ben in
(06:09):
his water taxi back to the same yacht Olivia had
arrived on earlier, and it was called the Tamarack, and
they planned to sleep on the yacht okay, because there
was like it was very limited sleeping arrangements.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Uh huh.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
So Ben and Olivia got off the taxi, went on board,
but then they found out all the beds had been taken.
So they got back in the water taxi and there
were three other passengers in the water taxi with them. Okay.
One of the taxi's passengers was a single man, and
he offered the pair a place to sleep on what
he said was his yacht. Guy dropped the three of them.
(06:42):
So the couple of friends and the single man off
at the yacht and took his other two passengers to
their stops. Okay, and then that was the last time
Ben and Olivia were seen alive. Oh. So, on the
second of January nineteen ninety eight, Ben and Olivia were
reported missing. So it was like a full day. I
think people would give.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
A full day for hangovers, yeah, because they knew the
probably need to be a big party. Yeah, and then
you wouldn't expect to hear from them.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Yeah. So January second, they were reported missing with the
Blenheim Police initially treating the case as a missing person's case.
It soon became obvious, though, that their disappearances were suspicious
and totally out of character for the couple, Like obviously
they weren't a couple, but the pair. They were very
reliable people, very responsible people, and I would have been.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
In contact with people, so not like them at all.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
Not like them at all. And the police began almost
immediately to investigate it as a homicide. Okay, then they
named the task force. They actually formed a task force
to deal with this, and it was called Operation Tam
Tam and it gained a lot of attention from the
public and media. Okay, obviously, like two young kids going
(07:54):
to the same year's at a really famous party, it's
going to get attention.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
So despite exhaustive searches, their bodies were never found. Oh god.
So police had nothing solid to go on. There was
no crime scene, no bodies, so they had to focus
on something else, and that was the single man from
the water taxi who offered them a place to sleep. Okay, guy.
The taxi driver described the man as having a couple
(08:21):
of days growth on his face, possible arm tattoos, he
wasn't sure, wiry build, about five foot nine, short, wavy
hair which was dark, scruffy, and wearing Levi's and a shirt. Okay,
guy was adamant it was the same man he and
the other staff had served earlier at the party. Oh
so he did the party, so he recognized this man
(08:43):
from earlier in the evening.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
A man named Scott Watson, who was born in nineteen
seventy one, was identified by several witnesses as matching the description,
and police quickly tracked him down on his home built sloop.
Oh get Oh so, witnesses said Scott was very drunk
on the night of the party, was confrontational, had been
rudely trying to pick up more than twenty women that night,
(09:06):
and reportedly even hit one woman in the face. Oh so,
people are going to domain beyh'm name for that. Yeah.
He sounds like a real fucking asshole.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Scott had forty eight criminal convictions on his record.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Forty eight. Jesus, he's not kipt himself quite at all,
has he not.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
He's been busy so for like burglary, theft, cannabis offenses,
weapons possessions, assaults, stuff like that optal source opt all sorts,
and in prison he had been assessed as a racist
who had problems with aggression. Okay, lovely h good mix,
good mix. Most of his convictions had been in his youth, though,
(09:47):
and he had been mainly trouble free in the last
eight years okay, prior to the disappearance. So he looked
like he had turned his knife around, even though again
reportedly he was acting like a complete whink. So all
of Scott's friends and associates indicated that he was aggressive
towards women, okay, threatening and talking about rape.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
One person claimed he had even said he could get
away with murder. But again, you never know, like people
say after thet.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Yeah exactly, Yeah, that could be a fly week. R
mean I've been taken lectually, Yeah, yeah exactly. I mean
how many times have we said, oh god, you can
see nobody and martyr them. You don't mean you're going
to do that?
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Exactly exactly. Guy the taxi driver said he had dropped
the three off at a two masted wouldn't catch is
what it's called, which police were unable to identify and
suspected did not even exist. Really yep, because of the suspicion,
many reports of settings were ignored. It was discovered, however,
that the area guy said he dropped them off is
(10:50):
where Scott's boat was tied up that night. Okay, so
I guess maybe he's remembering it incorrectly. Yeah, but the
police do not believe that the boat he described existed, right, interesting. Yeah,
so the investigation began to become messy. Okay, the relationship
between the police and guy the taxi driver broke down
(11:11):
when they told him the wooden boat didn't exist, and
then they started putting like a lot of pressure on him,
like almost interrogating him.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
Yeah that's a lot though, I mean, he's under pressure
to remember so much from something that in such a
short space of time. Yeah, but you would overanalyze and
oh yeah, you would go mad.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
He didn't really help though, because he also fabricated a
story about going to find the wooden boat.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Oh no, that's not going to help your cause.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
And the descriptions was changing again. But again, like he
might be the kind of person who just wants to
please the police and give answer.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Yeah, he really might be feeling so much potentious from it. Yeah,
that can go many ways, can to it can't. That's
why you need to be careful when you're like definitely, definitely.
Guy was also shown photo montages of Scott and was
unable to pick him out until the third montage he
was shown and aprol of nineteen ninety eight was got
looks scruffier and had his eyes half closed. So he
(12:05):
was shown like several times between the murder and April.
You can begin to understand the police reluctance kind of Yeah,
it's not great, No, it's not it's not like they've
got someone like a totally reliable witness.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
If you had put to mail the first lineup and
said that is absolutely m Yeah. If he had described
the guy's boat with any shade of doubt, yeah, I
think he would have. I think they would have been
more likely to believe him without questions. Oh yeah yeah.
So Scott was arrested on the fifteenth of June nineteen
ninety eight, and the trial began on the tenth of
June nineteen ninety nine.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
So the verse died, someone got and nobody's nobody and
no evident jilim okay m.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Much of the Crown's evidence was circumstantial okay, and relied
heavily on witness statements. Okay, while hair evidence was presented
showing Olivia's hair found on Scott's boat, right, the evidence
bag had a whole, and cross contamination at the lab
was a concern. Oh, so they're trying to put holes
in what evidence they had. So they say they found
(13:08):
Olivia's hair on the boat cannot be explained away potentially
because they shared a taxi together. Yep, you know it's
it's not a nail in the cough.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
No, definitely No.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
Scott had made a lot of changes to the boat
though immediately after the murders, including replacing parts and painting
it not suspicious, that's a bit suspicious. In September nineteen
ninety nine, after an eleven week trial, Scott was found
guilty and sentenced to life with no parole for a
minimum of seventeen years. He has always maintained his innocence,
(13:38):
but has lost all of his appeals. In March of
twenty twenty one, oh this year, guy died. Guy the
taxi driver died by suicide suddenly, with a case being
referred to the corner. Oh oh no, so the main
witness has now died. The I mean, I said yeah, so,
(14:02):
oh that's dodgy. It's all very strange. It's very strange.
It's it's a bit like making a murder where there's
evidence but it's not locked in and there's nobody.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
So much ambiguity to that and the fact that he
has lost all of his appeals get the like Steven
Avidy Actually, yeah, very like Steven Avery, who, by the way,
I still think it. I absolutely think is guilty. But
I think you got a wrong trial. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
I'm in the middle. I know, I know you need
to listen out. I'll tell you after. With the witness
now being dead, like why did he kill himself? Who knows?
It could be.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
He's the most stable witness, the most he's the only Yeah,
there's the other couple in the boat, but they had
trouble remembering.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
Details and stuff like that, so he was the one
who was adamant. So now this guy has like a
real I don't know, chance maybe of saying I mean
he'd been on the straight and narrow for eight years. Yes,
he had some really shitty streaks him. Oh yeah, I
just don't know if that was enough to convince.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
I know, I know, And there's no bodies. Yeah, and
if he's done it, those bodies have going into the sea,
haven't they.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
Oh yeah, definitely trying to find that. I know, I
know that's true. And he was there, like his boat
was there, so like it's not like he went anywhere.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Yeah, he didn't want to weave from it. No, as such,
it's a tough one. It's a tough I don't know.
I don't know how i'd what we had go if
I was on a judy there. Yeah, because it's it's tough.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
The hilarious part is I've picked this murder and I
have no idea how they died. Yeah, actually we don't. Yeah,
we're That was a good one. I enjoyed that. I
don't know.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
That was from Wikipedia. Good one, Thank you, and we're back.
We are back for my turn. So mine's it's a
different twist on year murders.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
Is it now? I decided to go down a different
route mainly because when I'm in my research, I wasn't
finding something that had a lot of what shall I say, a.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
Lot of background to it, and I wasn't in love
with anything I was finding online. So I've gone for
someone who was born in New Year's Eve fair enough.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
It's listen, swampy af. Like I said to you after
the Swamp Murders episode, I have zero legs to stand
on for the rest of the year. I was messeding
you going, I don't like this.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
So he was born in New YUS, which still is
still relative, still New US. It's relative to the subject.
It is indeed, I'm standing by it. So I'm going
to talk about John Allen Muhammed. He was born John
Allen Williams on December thirty first, nineteen sixty in New Orleans, Louisiana.
He was raised by his aunt in Baton Rouge and
(16:56):
by the way, that's somewhere I've always wanted to visit.
Oh my god, yes, I always wanted to visit. After
his mother died when he was four of beast cancer.
After high school, Johin got married to a lady called
Carol and joined the Louisiana Army National Guard. They had
a son named Lyndebert, and at first his military career
seemed promising. He was described as personable and outgoing by
(17:17):
one of his commanders, but by the early nineteen eighty
his cracks were beginning to show, and his Fasat. He
got trouble a couple of times, once for failing to
report for duty and another time for hitting an officer.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
Which is not cool. It's not ideal.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Hiding your boss is not cool in that sense, in
the army sense. No no, no, no no, it won't get you far,
will it.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
No No, I mean they don't like it.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
No no. However, he turned his life around in nineteen
eighty five, separated from his wife, converted to Islam, and
joined the US Army. It wasn't until October two thousand
and one that he changed his name to Muhammad from Williams.
He was stationed in Washington State and later married a
lady called Mildred Greene. The couple had three children. The
(18:02):
army seemed to be a good fit for John, at
least for a time. He became a skilled marksman and
served in Germany in the Middle East during the Gulf War.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
He became restless, though, and left the military in nineteen
ninety four. Tried to start his own business twice, first
with an auto mechanic shop and then a karate school.
Wow but you know, wildly different. But both ventures failed. Unfortunately,
in nineteen ninety nine. His second wife, Mildred, twelve with divorce,
and the next year she got a restraining order against
John because of the threats he made against her. Oh shit,
(18:34):
so it doesn't sound like he's turned over that much
of a new leaf.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
I think I think you put the leaf back on him. Yes. Yes.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Shortly after the straining order was issued, John fled to
Antigua with the couple's three children.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
Oh fuck, asshole.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
Oh no, you don't do that to a mum. You
just don't do that. You don't do to the kids either,
like those kids neither.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
Imagine just taking your children run away A plus the location,
Uh huh. If anyone's going, dug may take me to Antigua.
But still a dick move. Yeah yeah, not cool to
the children. Van off Antigua.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
It's believed that this is also where he met his
future accomplice, who was called Lee Boyd Malvo. John later
returned to the United States, settling in Bellingham in Washington
with his children. Soon, however, police officers found him and
returned the children to their mother's custody, and she moved
with them to Maryland. Good Enraged over the loss of
(19:29):
his children, John began to fixate on Lee, who had
moved to Bellingham with his mother that October. They together
lived in a homeless shelter and developed a disturbing father
son dynamic. John seemed to control every aspect of Lee's life,
imposing an exercise program and a special diet, one that
proportedly consisted of just honey and crackers at one point.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
A wee bit weird and that's not a real diet,
A big bit weird. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Lee and his mother were taken into custody by emigration
officials in December two thousand and one.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
For being in the country. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
They were released while waiting for the heating, and John
was soon reunited with them. He began to teach Lee
how to use a gun, and they use a tree
stump in a friend's yard for target practice.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
That sounds about right for America, as you do.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
By the fall of two thousand and two, or the
autumn as we call it, John and Lee had moved
on from tree stumps to real life victems.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
They were involved in a liquor store shooting in Alabama
before beginning their assault in Washington, DC area in October.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Oh, just pause, can somebody in the world Please explain
to me why it's always a liquor store shooting, and
it always is. What is it about liquor stores? Are
you there for the liquor? Are you there for the money?
The poor passage that worked there? I mean, I am
not condoning anybody who were holding up everyone. No, but surely, like,
(20:48):
do you know how much money women spend a tophara?
Like yep, I mean, don't.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Victoria's secret or Victoria's secret. Don't don't go hold up
any of those because it's all like you're not going
to get You're not going to get mega money in
a liquor store. No, but they must think they're less
security conscious than most other places. Like if you went
to Sephora or whatever else, I would think that there'd
be more. No, I would not a liquor store. Not
a liquor store on a street. No, okay, you're not
(21:15):
going to have a security guarden the door. You're not
going to have like machines that beep as you walk
in and out if you've stolen something.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
It's going to be quite low grade. I can't imagine
anybody would get much out of rubbing anything. Now, because
everybody pays a car.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
Yeah, exactly strange, But yeah, a liquor store. It seems
like an easy target, really, doesn't it. But it is
always a liquor store anyway. So they started at a
liquor store, went off to Washington where they started getting
up to no good. John's ex wife, Mildred and three
children lived in nearby Maryland, and they would reported that
John stopped the family around the time of these sniper
(21:49):
attacks that.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
Were reported in Washington, DC. Oh shit.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
A skilled mechanic, John put his talents to evil use,
making a sniper nest out of the trunk of his car.
Heat and Lee worked as a team in the shooting,
with one man fighting a rifle and the others watching
the victims die. They often targeted people doing simple every
day tasks, such as pumping the gas or leaving a store.
In total, they killed ten people and injured three others
in the Washington.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
DC area.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
I remember this happening, Yeah, I vaguely remember it too. Actually,
after several killings, John and Lee began to taunt the police.
They left a note on a tarret card that read,
mister policeman, I am God. After one shooting, the police
were stumped as they seemed to be no motive or
pattern to the attacks. Then the snipers demanded ten million
dollars to stop the shootings, but the reil break in
(22:36):
the case came from phone calls to a tip line
and to two priests from someone claiming to be the sniper.
He pointed them in direction of an earlier Alabama shooting.
At the scene of the crime, Lee had dropped a
brochure which had one of his fingerprints on it. The
fingerprint was matched on file with the immigration records, giving
the authorities their first suspect, Silly Old Dogs. On October
(22:58):
twenty four, two thousand and two, more than two twenty
days after the rampage began, the authorities surrounded the vehicle
in which John and Lee were in. They were taken
into custard and arrested. Since they committed crimes in several states,
the authorities had to decide where the pair should be tried. First,
I guess they went for the death body, and then
they went they had separate trials because of that. Also,
the prosecution called more than one hundred and thirty witnesses
(23:20):
and introduced more than four hundred pieces of evidence intended
to prove that John undertook the murders and ordered Lee
to help carry them out. Evidence included a rifle found
in John's car that was linked with that was linked
by ballistics tests to eight of the ten killings in
the Washington area and two other killings in Louisiana and Alabama.
The car, which was modified so that a sniper could
(23:40):
shoot from the inside of the trunk, had a laptop
computer that was also found in the car. It contained
maps with icons pinpointing shooting scenes back. So you've pretty
much got you're on the money now, aren't really? I mean,
just if you don't confess, then you were an idiot already.
You've left a trail of evidence behind you. You might have
just written I did it yeah on the map on
(24:02):
that Witness accounts put John across the street from one
shooting and as carne the scene of several others. There
was also a recorded phone called to a police hot
line in which a man, his voice identified by detective
as John's, demanding money in exchange for stopping the shootings.
So not clever, I mean, they're never going to pay
you to stop shooting. Ten million dollars, I mean, aim
(24:24):
low for goodness sake, ten million dollars really. On November
the seventeen, two thousand and three, John was convicted of
all four counts in his indictment case against him, capital
murder under Virginia's Anti terrorism statute, for homicide committed with
an intent to terrorize the government or the public at large,
conspirator to commit murder, and I llegal use of a
(24:45):
firearm In the penalty phase of the child the jury,
after a five hours of deliberation over two days, unanimously
recommended that John be sentenced to death. On March nine,
two thousand and four, a Virginia judge agreed with the
jury's recommendation and sends us him to death. On May
the thirty, two thousand and six, John was tried in
Maryland and a jury found him guilty of six kunts
(25:06):
of murdered. Also, he was sentenced to six consecutive life
terms without possibility of parole. Neither Alabama, Arizona, Louisiana, or
Washington moved to try John given his death sentence for
murder in Virginia area.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
Yeah, I know, they'll just keep that in their back pack.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
It Lee, his accomplice, was also sentenced to a term
of life without parole for his role in the shootings.
On November the tenth, two thousand and nine, hours before
John's scheduled execution, pleas for clemency made by his attorneys
were denied by the Virginia governor. Under Virginia law, an
inmate was allowed to choose the method by which he
or she would put to death, which.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
I didn't know.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
I didn't know that, which would obviously either be lethal
injection or electriccian. As John declined to select a method
by law, the method then went to lethal injection that
was automatically selected for him. He was offered a selection
of a last meal, which he accepted, and apparently as
attorney told the press that this was a smell that
consisted of chicken and red sauce and some cakes.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
Okay, pretty bloody basic. That's a pretty basic menu. Yeah,
but he was military, wasn't he. Yeah?
Speaker 2 (26:09):
I suppose fair enough. I would go all out for
my last meal if that was me. But you know,
oh my god, it's a different conversation. I'm just thinking now,
like what would I would I have? But you know,
how can you enjoy it? We would enjoy it as
much because you'd be like Okay, we'll do I now,
I guess it depends if you've accepted your dath or not.
I want something tasty.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
No, yeah, me too.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
John declined to make a final statement, and his execution
began at nine pm at the Greensville Correctional Center in
Greensville County, Virginia. According to the official statement of the
prison spokesperson, the actual lethal injection process starts at nine
oh six and he was pronounced dead at nine to
eleven pm. His body was cremated and his ashes giving
ashes giving to his son in Louisiana. And that all
(26:53):
came from Wikipedia.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Very good, thank you. We are back back to conclude.
So we don't know how yours died. Let's just assume
that they were somehow knocked out and thrown overboard. Thrown
overboard because there was no blood on the boat. No
blood found. But he decorated. Yeah, but they can still
(27:16):
find like blue lighters. But did he not like renovate
parts of the boat like you placed some parts occupaented
but that won't get rid of blood. Yeah, okay, so
I'm going to guess that they blue lighted it. If
they didn't, they're freaking idiots.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
If they found no blood evidence. I'm going to guess
that they were knocked out, however that happened, and possibly
thrown overboard. Yes, perhaps they were strangled and put overboard, but.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
We don't know.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
We don't know.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
Nobody's no evidence, nobody, no crime, and minds were obviously shot.
So I'm probably going to go for you because we
don't know. I kind of like the mystery around yours
to me, yours sounds probably quick and painless, knocked out
and chucked overboard. I would hope that be no sexual
(28:00):
assault in there. I think there probably was, given that
the leading spoke about rape.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
Oh yeah, No, again, we're assuming that he's guilty, but
I know he was the lead one scene with them.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
Yeah, and he did talk about women in the quite
vulgar way.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
He was not great or No.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
I might not pick years then, because there's beouten to
be some some sort of sexual If that.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
Was the motive for him taking them on board, I
would imagine he possibly knocked the man out first. The
poor women. Okay, I'm not picking years.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
Okay, I've just remembered that what you said about women,
So I'm not picking years. I'm picking mine.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
Okay, So I will probably do the same because a
shot that you're not expecting, if you just die instantly,
which hopefully many of them would have done, yes, you
don't really suffer that much. No. No, So for me,
that is far more like appealing a thought yes to
(28:54):
just be like standing popping gas hating my life all
of a sudden gone.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
Yeah, yes, I'm not sure. I suppose. I'm just gonna say,
I'm not sure to agree with the sentencing of the accomplice.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
You think it should have been death as well?
Speaker 2 (29:10):
I don't know, because yeah, I suppose he was questioned
it wasn't he.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
It's well, it doesn't even matter.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
It sounds like he was very much beingwashed by that's
did as well.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
That doesn't matter. We all have free will. But I
think that it comes down to the evidence. The evidence
was the gun was found with the one guy. His
DNA obviously has found on that they could link the
gun directly to him into the murders, whereas the other guy,
it's probably a harder link to make.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Yeah, it is merely an accomplice, then, isn't he.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
Yeah, so I can get why they maybe weren't as
firm about whether he would get convicted it or not,
they probably weren't on the balance of probabilities. And even
though they're not supposed to take it into account, a
jury will be mindful of whether up for death or not. Yeah,
so it will make a difference to how lenient they
(29:59):
are with evidence. And that's just human nature, like they're
not supposed to be, but they will be.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
Okay, So the big and real question is, Yeah, what
you have for your last meal?
Speaker 1 (30:09):
Oh my god, I've been thinking about this so much.
I think it's gonna be steak. Oh nice. You know
you have to have starter main desert.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
Well, some states have now put a cap on what
you can order because people were going all out. They
were sending like two hundreds, three hundred dollars.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
I'm not eating it. And then really, yeah, I think
I would have chicken middle soup because I love chicken
middle soup, or patty because I love patti as well
you do.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Yeah, I think I might be with you in steak.
But then I love mince and potatoes. It's my favorite.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
Oh, I am so good at mince and potatoes.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
By the way, they have to make even have maybe
min some potatoes.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
I know. Do you like roast potatoes or mash pottash
got the mash Okay, So I've done roast and I
do like moastes, but traditional mince and potatoes mash.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
And for a pudding, I'm going to go for like
chocolate fudge cake washed down with a gin and tonic
or a cod.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
Zeo, both just get So there you go.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
That's my answer. If you decidedn't know, it's what you're
having for pudding. So well, I didn't even consider starter,
which would I think I would get?
Speaker 1 (31:17):
You would go for like what'd you call it? What'd
you call? What was? What did you get?
Speaker 2 (31:21):
The last time I would wte for dinner and I
was like, oh my god, I remember the cheese stuff
and the fries. What's what's the what's halloo HALLOOMI? I
couldn't think of the name. I was going to say, Harissa.
That's the cheese as well, isn't it.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
I think Harissa is a spice.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
Is that?
Speaker 1 (31:35):
I thought it was cheese?
Speaker 2 (31:36):
Hallumy fries. I had never tried them till you got them,
and I'm obsessed with them now.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
I like them.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
I'm changing it.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
I'm getting hallomy fries. Oh my god, I don't think
they were last last meal, No, my last meal. I
think I would start with like either thought cheese fondu
or like a oh, I don't know, maybe I'm magic
to shellfish to say no not if I wanted to
kill myself, I could, but I have an understand problem.
(32:04):
Cold teal for a start, I know, No, I think
I would do or I would get like Vietnamese spring rolls.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
Oh nice, they're nice.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
And then I would have the Philly steak, a big.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
Steaks, going to eat you a whale to eat exactly.
It's good that you're working too a dayliney not well, they.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
Can bring it to me early, and I'd have a
baked potato loaded with butter, sour cream and cheese and chives. Nice.
And then for dessert, I think I don't know, I
don't know what I would I'd probably have like i'd
probably have like timbits or something, Yeah, that remind me
of home, twenty timbits nice. And then I would have
(32:46):
like a chocolate milkshake. Oh, you're going to be so
fill in a pepsi max nice. Yeah, I'm hungry, n.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
I know, danger nine pm at night and we're like
I'm going home for a steak.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
I drove, so my sat Nav has taken me, like,
this is the fifteenth different route I've taken to your
place in the middle of nowhere. You need to stick
to one. Well, I never know because it's Google. So
I went down. I started on an a road. I
started and I looked at one point and I was like,
why is she there?
Speaker 2 (33:17):
I have no idea it took me there because you
also you saved me your location and what's happened? I
was like, oh right, okay, yeah, I was in the bathroom.
You actually said you left Chakor. So I stopped and
got a subway. Huh.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
It's pitch blackout. There are no street lights on these
a roads. It is the middle of fucking nowhere. I
am literally just following the car in front of me.
I don't know where it's going, but I'm following it,
trying to eat a tuna sub I've got onions falling out.
There are onions and shit all over my car. Right now,
I smell so good. I reached into the bag and
(33:51):
my hand just came't if I get pulled over right now,
Oh my god. And then I like shoved the cookie
in my mouth and I'm like, it's fine, that's fine,
it's so good. Comfort food, comfort food.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
So you drive to the middle of nowhere, lash countryside,
which is not the middle of nowhere.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
Is the middle of nowhere.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
I love you make it sound like I don't love
any sort of civilization. You don't I do?
Speaker 1 (34:18):
Yes, I do? She really doesn't I do. Anyway, we've concluded,
we have.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
We've had an argument as ever, so we've picked your
nine like how many minute when I'm again, yes, I've
gone way into food now in my head, I'm like food.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
I know Swedish fish, eat Swedish fish.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
Oh, we need to eat my Swedish fish. I never
I have no idea what this is, but I'm going
to go for it anyway. Yeah, so we've concluded we have.
And yes, happy New Year when it comes everybody.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
Oh yeah, happy new Year.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
We shall see you in twenty twenty two. Oh my god, Yeah,
it's twenty twenty two. I want to bring us fuck.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
Probably some more variants and I don't oh, maybe a
lot today or some positivity in their halls, but no,
probably more various. I'm for realism. Twenty twenty two is
going to be a better year. That helps.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
So yeah, in regards to COVID and who knows what's
ahead of us, who knows what's in store. But that's
the excitement of all, isn't it. Yes, maybe we'll be
award winning podcasters in twenty twenty.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
Two, and after listen to this, they're like this, but
how long talking about last nails?
Speaker 2 (35:28):
But happier year to you all, Wishing you health and
happiness for twenty twenty two. Indeed, yes from us on
hogmen ase we call it in Scotland hogmeny.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
Why is it called that?
Speaker 2 (35:38):
I have no idea. I'd love to as a Scottish persson,
I'd love to sit and explain that, but I have
no clue.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
I don't have a clue either hogbeny. But I don't
ever call it hogmeny. I call it New Year's Eve.
I don't have yeah that called.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
This is a country where you live and work, HOLLI
don't point it mean you are true? Yes, So health
and happiness to everyone in twenty twenty two. Thank you
for rougisha port in twenty twenty one.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
Yes, it was amazing. Thank you so much for thank
you're so.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
Much, and thank you for welcoming me with open arms. Oh, yeah,
I've done my I started in May. Uh huh, yeah,
so I've done most of it. I've done most of
the year.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
Yeah. Whoa typical fucking sorry, I just googled this tolmony
many It is sometimes to Robert Burns. Oh no, no,
no no. It is not known exactly where the word
comes from typical Scottish make up a word and let
it stick. But they think it might come from the
French word hog in nine, meaning galaday. Oh okay. It
(36:41):
first became widely used after Mary, Queen of Scott's return
to Scotland term France, so that might fit in.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
I got the wrong historical figure. I knew it was
some day historical had something to do with not Robert Buns,
but made men of Scots. Very different people, yes, very different,
but kind of a shit explanation.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
Yeah, anyway, see you out twenty twenty one.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
Come over and say hi, subscribe, review the lot, the
lot please, and we shall see you in twenty twenty two.
We will, And health and happiness to everyone.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
Happy new here, cheers bye.
Speaker 3 (37:16):
Which Moderer is hosted by Speaker and is recorded in
a secret location in Scotland. Can find us wherever you
listen to your podcasts. Email us at which Murderer at
gmail dot com or visit our website at which murderer
dot com. We are also on Instagram, Reddit and Twitter.
Just look for the app which Murderer account or hashtag.
(37:37):
You can join the debate on our Facebook page and group,
interacting with on our listeners or the which Murderer team.
Our theme music is Kill Me Again by bluebend Our.
Artwork was produced by Wild Creations at fiver dot com
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