July 15, 2024 • 41 mins
IT'S A WHICH MURDERER FLASHBACK!
In Season 4 Episode 36 the girls tackle another listener suggestion and tell you about Murders Solved by Psychics. What a great idea! Mel kicks it off with the sad story of Melanie Uribe before Holly tells you about a lovely man named Andre Daigle.
Shoutout to Cheryl for this week’s suggestion! Keep them coming…..you guys are doing a fantastic job.
Mel is on the running bandwagon while Holly remains on a health not-kick, we learn that Holly skates like a sailboat, Mel tells us about her love for the Olympics and Italy - but that she is not likely to honeymoon there due to the Mafia, the girls decide all carpenters are nice people and Holly reveals yet more childhood trauma.
Production, recording and post production completed by Holly who is trying hard to psychically connect to Consulting Producer Craig and get him to take over editing again.
Holly edited this week. All complaints should be sent directly to Mel while Consulting Producer Craig tries to figure out why he’s suddenly craving maple syrup and has an itch inside his brain.
www.whichmurderer.com
WARNING - Explicit language, content and themes (plus whatever else will cover us legally). All opinions stated are our own and case information was gathered from legitimate sources within the public realm.
Pre-recorded in Scotland
In Season 4 Episode 36 the girls tackle another listener suggestion and tell you about Murders Solved by Psychics. What a great idea! Mel kicks it off with the sad story of Melanie Uribe before Holly tells you about a lovely man named Andre Daigle.
Shoutout to Cheryl for this week’s suggestion! Keep them coming…..you guys are doing a fantastic job.
Mel is on the running bandwagon while Holly remains on a health not-kick, we learn that Holly skates like a sailboat, Mel tells us about her love for the Olympics and Italy - but that she is not likely to honeymoon there due to the Mafia, the girls decide all carpenters are nice people and Holly reveals yet more childhood trauma.
Production, recording and post production completed by Holly who is trying hard to psychically connect to Consulting Producer Craig and get him to take over editing again.
Holly edited this week. All complaints should be sent directly to Mel while Consulting Producer Craig tries to figure out why he’s suddenly craving maple syrup and has an itch inside his brain.
www.whichmurderer.com
WARNING - Explicit language, content and themes (plus whatever else will cover us legally). All opinions stated are our own and case information was gathered from legitimate sources within the public realm.
Pre-recorded in Scotland
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:13):
If you like, Hello, mel, Hello Holly, what's new? What's
new? Well, since we lastspoke, let me think I finished my
yogurt. That's good headlines, that'sgood news. You're on a health kick.
(00:37):
I'm on a health not kick.I'm in the zone. Actually sad,
it's amazing, but I'm quite enjoyingit. Went back to running.
Running has always been my thing.I got very leasy, as we all
do. But I've got right backinto it because I have summer goals.
Yes, and it helps if youhave a goal. So yes, I'm
into running. I think I'm inweek three. So hello, do you
(01:00):
run for before you have to stop? Well, I've gone back to couch
to five k oh okay, becauseI used to run five k's all the
time. Yea, And that wasmy thing for years and news and years,
and then I had the kids andthen went back to it briefly.
But I kind of fell out oflove with running, I think, for
a while. So I've gone NowI've got I went right back to basics
and I'm doing couch to five k, which I'm really enjoying and it properly
(01:23):
works like it's nine weeks of runningprogram. We run three times a week
along to someone that coaches you andtells you everything to do, how long
to run and how long to restand have a restay in between and whatever.
And honestly, you can run fivek's like no bother in nine weeks.
I can barely walk. Anybody cando it. I'm not entirely sure
that. One of their mutual friendson Facebook as well was something we used
(01:47):
to work with who was not arunner at all, and she went,
she went onto it and she lovedit. Yeah, and she's like,
I'm running for like twenty minutes ata time and I'd never been able to
do add my life. Yeah,And it's true. You get to a
point we can we can run afive cane Like I think my record probably
was about twenty eight minutes back whenI was fitting hail seeing properly into it.
(02:07):
But I think you can run tohave five caves in like twenty five
minutes or something really, which isawesome. And I just think running for
me, it's just like pop podcaston pop your tunes on awesome. See
for me, you say with whichmarginer? Oh we which murderer with the
running podcast? Now for me?We don't like I get such bad shin
(02:29):
pain. Yeah, I used to, but it's all about woman up properly.
Oh I don't have to try that. But like Thursday, I walked
ten k. Friday I worked tenk. Did you see you're doing that
for work? Yeah? I wasdoing excite tours all right. I thought
you meant like you were doing likesome sort of sponsored thing. Oh god,
no, it wasn't voluntary. Iwas really pissed off about it.
Oh right, okay, fine,but it's still fitness, which is good.
It was satinus. But like Iwas telling the person I'm one of
(02:52):
my coworkers I was with, Iwas like, I do this for fun
on the weekends. When I haveto do it for work, it just
makes me mad. Oh, Iguess a completely different kettle of fish.
Plus it was walking on like concrete, and it was just, yeah,
it's not us fun. So twentyk over those two days, and then
on the Sunday I went ice skating, and I swear to god, ice
skatings hard to work. It's hardwork, and I don't ice skate properly
(03:15):
like I love it. I loveit. I grew up doing it,
but I've developed my own way ofice skating, which is not the right
way. It's the same way Iuse chopsticks, which is my way,
not the right way. Yep.So I only skate with one skate.
Okay, do you not use bullsnow? No? So I push off
with my right and I steer withmy left. So I'm like a boat.
(03:38):
This is something I want to see. So we are going to do
a podcast ice skating. I'm goingto film it. I'm going to show
every Monday. I don't know.I don't know what point because I remember
when I was a little I usedto boogy around that ice so good.
I don't when I was younger,I did backwards, I could do everything
else. I loved it. Godhelp me. No, I'm like a
(04:00):
sail boat now. I have tolike my my right leg is this is
the wind in the sails, andmy left leg is just the boat going
straight down the ice. Like isthe most bizarre thing. This is something
I have to witness in life,my God, honestly, and all these
little shits we're five years old,like zoom and past on their little skates
and you're like, nah, bostards, little bastards. It's because you're a
(04:25):
center of gravity is so much.You're like holding the penguin. I wasn't
holding a penguin. I was notholding a penguin. Were just being a
boat. I was being a sailboat. And then I would stop at like
sure quite a lot. Oh god, you get more feedful as you get
older, though, you really do. Are you watching the winters at Olympics?
No, my god, we've beenWe've been dipping an out of it.
(04:46):
I must say, we've been watchingdoing I don't know. We usually
do pretty good in winter. Soby they all I've seen is Italy doing
very well enough, they do verywell. How does that work? No,
they don't do well in summer.They do very well in winter.
They've got the fucking Alps. Well, I know. But they predominantly come
from a hot country. Apart fromthat, I mean, do they what
seventy it's hot? Is it not? I don't think it would be hot.
(05:10):
They winter and snow and shit,yeah, but not like winter Olympic
snow. Yeah up in the mountainsyeah, and the mountains yeah, but
not anywhere else. But they don'tneed it everywhere the athletes in the mountains.
Yeah, but as as a country, as a whole, it's like
getting and sunny. No, butthat's the thing. They go skiing because
they're so close to Switzerland, They'reso close to all those countries that love
(05:33):
the winter sports. They're so closeto it that they can just pop over.
But I've been watching it and itjust takes me back to my favorite,
one of my favorite films of alltime, because obviously my favorite film
of all time is Willy Wonka.Okay, did not know that? You
did not know that? How canyou? How can you be friends me
for all these years and don't knowthat Willy Wonka is my favorite film of
all time. My favorite film isI going to go and take it?
(05:55):
Probably something like bloody and gory.I'm what is your favorite Fela? I
don't know. Yeah, take itback, take you back? Okay,
your favorite film is probably The Exoguist. Isn't I even in the top fave?
Shining? No? Is it lighthearted? Is it Madey Poppins of music?
(06:23):
I don't know that. You're aterrible friend. Who I'm so sorry?
Oh my god, my favorite filmis The Amadeus. What the fuck's
that? This is a movie aboutMozart? Oh my god, snooze,
It's not Snooze is about chocolate.It's it's about somebody slowly being driven mad
(06:44):
to the point of death, Isuppose, and you wouldn't be like hearts.
Okay, So going back to theWinter Olympics takes me to my second
favorite film, which is about thelegend that is John Candy and it's kill
Runnings Riches Awesome. I heard Jamaicais in it this year. Yeah,
yeah, Running. I actually watchedit recently with the kids for the first
(07:06):
time. And you know how wehit the kids to watch like one of
your films. He loved as andyou worry that it doesn't and some of
them haven't. Yeah, but theyloved it. Really, they really liked
it. Yeah, they really likedit. They didn't unfortunately though they seen
Charlie and the Chocolate Factory with JohnnyDepp before they seen Willy Wonka with Jane
Wilder, and they did not likeWilly Wonka. Yeah. Jane Wilder was
(07:27):
really fucking creepy. Yeah, soJohnny Depp though, I Ny Depp had
a touch with Michael Jackson's about massage. Yeah he did. No, Sorry
Michael Jackson fans, but you know, no, Yeah, a lot,
a lot is wrong there music musicallyfabulous? Yeah, not musically not so
fabulous. I don't know. There'sbeen some debate recently and a lot of
stuff's coming out that maybe those werefalse allegation. Oh well, well you
(07:49):
know, nothing has proven so fairenough. Yeah, but a lot was
said anyway. It was a bitof a strange character, but it was
musical genius. Yes, he wasabsolutely yes, so way sidetracked as usual.
How the fuck did we even gethere because I was talking about Winter
Olympics and Kill Runnings. Oh right, okay, and I have to watch
I'm gonna have to watch Kill Runningsagain because it's just it's just taking me
a bit back for yours. Imean, I watched it last year and
(08:13):
I found it so fucking funny.But I love John Candy like I love
Uncle Buck. He's Canadian. SeeCandy is Canadian? Did not know that?
Oh my god, I did notknow that. Did you not know
our national Dead Treasures? He isawesome and he died really young, didn't
Hey, well yeah he was hard. Yeah, yeah, he was not
(08:33):
a healthy. Uncle Buck is likeone of the greatest things ever. It's
pretty cute and I love him.In the first home alone as well.
Oh my god, he helps themom get home. Yeah, he's cute
and that. Have you watched inCanto yet the New Disney Room. No,
I've not seen it. Have you'veseen Luca? No, I haven't
seen that. That's awesome. Thatis awesome. Yes, it's really really
awesome. That was the last kindof Big Disney one i'd seen. But
I've not seen in Canto. Ohit's so good. But I was like
(08:56):
bawling at the end. It's onDisney Plus. Yeah, I've got that,
so I'll watch it. Is amazing. Oh but have we got time
to talk? One will tell you? Or we went on too much?
I mean nine minutes worth of movies. Sorry, guys, there is murder
coming up. Well I can talkabout this another time now, because I
want to know a TV show.We always wanted a TV show that we
could watch the family together and weprobably enjoy it, the four of us.
(09:18):
And I've never seen this, andDave had seen it and thought we
need to watch this together. Sowe went back to watch the very beginning
of Malcolm in the Middle. Ohmy god, oh my god. We're
all loving it, and the boysare like, what do you watch for
The Malcolm. When you watch onThe Malcolm, Yeah, it is so
good and I've never ever seen itso and David seen some of it,
but we're now only I think we'renearly on the third season and we're loving
(09:39):
it. I had no idea thatBrian Canston was dad. Yeah, no,
I know. I was like,oh my god, Briankknson. Dave's
like, yeah, yeah, Ihad no idea. I knew like who
Malcolm was, I knew of himwhen I was younger, but I had
no idea of the dad and heis absolutely brilliant and it's so funny in
it. But they're all brilliant inthe individually, Like the mum's brilliant as
(10:00):
well. Love the Mum, butit's so funny because like the Mum,
people keep saying similarities to me andthe mum. I could say that,
I could say that she's like abit crazy and chit's a bit. Yeah.
Yeah, we're absolutely loving it.Sorry, sorry, everybody. We've
talked about TV and films for night. Yes, yeah, you could just
fast forward. That was too week. However, we are going to talk
(10:22):
about another listener suggestion right, whichwas Cheryl again, Oh thank you Thank
you, Cheryl. Come back anytimewith suggestions. Please have months of suggestions,
which is awesome, so good.And it's is murders solved by psychic,
which I was well into this one, I mean, and I want
to visit a psychic so badly.I wonder if my guy is still taking
(10:45):
but nobody, you know, there'slike years of waiting, lasts or whatever
else. And I really so badlywant to visit one because I love it.
I just I believe in it allabout it all. I love it.
I don't necessarily believe it all.But I waited two years to go
see a guy and he was amazing. I mean, I'm not waiting two
years and most impatient person in theworld anyway, But I mean, I
really want to see someone. Anyway, I shall carry on. So I'm
first this week, Yes you are. And my murder served by Psye Cake
(11:11):
involves a lady whose name is Melanie. Personally, I think that's a fabulous
name. Her name is Melanie Uribe. How would you say you are ibe?
Uriby? Are ib r ib rib urebe sonybys family or America?
Okay, So I'll just call itMelanie from now on. Okay. Melanie
(11:33):
Uribe was born on the ninth Septembernineteen forty eight in Burbank, California.
She was a divorced, single motherof an eight year old son, and
she worked as a nurse at thehospital in burn Bank, Burn Bank,
Burn Banks, Barbank at the PasiomaHospital in Burbank. On December the fifteenth,
(11:54):
nineteen eighty, Melanie went missing onher way into work the night shift.
When she failed to show up,the hospital called her house phone,
but no one answered. After notcoming into work at any point throughout the
shift, her employer decided to callthe police. She was known to be
very reliable and punctual, so notshowing up for a shift, especially when
she had a job as important asbeing a nurse, was just not normal
(12:16):
for it at all. Right.Police went to her home, where the
talked to her roommate, who saidthey had not seen her since she had
left for work. This would havebeen like the sixties, right, She's
born in nineteen forty so yes,yeah, the sixties, they would actually
care if you didn't show up towork. I'd like go check on you.
Now they don't give a shit,She described her Where was I Oh,
yeah. They talked to her roommate, who said they hadn't seen her
(12:39):
since she left her work. Shedescribed Melanie to police as being about five
foot two and she's tall, blonde, and was last seen wearing a white
uniform, leather jacket, and abrown sweater when she left the apartment to
go to work. The next morning, police found Melanie's truck with her nurse's
uniform in it, but no signof Melanie. The truck had been set
on fire. Initially, police weren'tsure if Melanie was dead and alive.
(13:01):
They searched the area and found noother trace of her, so they put
out a media lat on TV andradio, and it wasn't long before they
received calls from witnesses and said thatthey heard a woman's screaming and watched these
two men force their way into thewomen's truck and drove away. They watched,
they saw that happen. They didn'tcall police, no, not until
they heard disappear in radio. Butthen sometimes it takes that to triger people's
(13:24):
memory. Or maybe I mean,someone's screaming and been dragged into a truck
by two our men and it's afemale, You should be fucking active on
that. Yeah, I would liketo think. That same day that I
absolutely loved that. I love thisstory, love it. That same day,
a thirty two year old aerospace workerby the name of Etta Smith,
also from Burbank, was listening tothe radio work when she heard the news
(13:48):
bulleting about Meleanie come up and talkabout her disappearance and how they'd found her
truck on a dead end street,but we're still looking for her. She
heard how police had search the area, including the houses nearby, and at
that point she heard her voice inher head say, she's not in a
house. Oh. And as soonas she had that thought, she then
(14:09):
had a clear visual in her headof where Melanie was. Oh. In
her vision, she saw a canyonand a curving road, some shrubberry hills
in the backdrop, and a dirtpath leading to something white. She didn't
know the name of the location oranything more than that, but she did
a very clear vision, almost likea movie scene in her head. Oh.
ESAs never claimed to be a psychic. I was going to say,
(14:31):
is she even a psychic? No, this was something new to her,
so she argued with herself over whatto do with the vision. She didn't
want to come off as crazy,but what she had just seen in her
head was so clear, and shehad this pulling feeling like she just would
be able to live with herself ifshe didn't tell the police what she saw.
So there's obviously great danger of hersounding like a crazy lady. In
(14:52):
the end, though, she decidedto leave work a little early and tell
the authorities about her vision. Atthis point, she didn't really if anyone
thought she was nuts. The feelingthat, the pulling feeling that she had
was so strong that she had todo the right thing. Oh my god.
She went to the police station andtold him that she had a vision
about where the missing person was.She described the location in great detail,
and the officer knew of where shewas referring to. She was able to
(15:16):
pinpoint the spot in a map,which was a remote part of the San
Fernando Valley in the Lopez Canyon.As it turned out, the police had
not searched that area, but thedetective in charge assured Eta that they would.
Of course, detectives were really skepticalof this scheming. I can't speak,
really skeptical of this seemingly random womanwalking into a police station talking about
(15:37):
a vision she'd had. Yeah,of course he would be. But they
checked Etta out and she was abusiness woman with a top security clearance.
She obviously she worked near a space. She wasn't just like this randomer off
the street of whatever else. Shehad credibility, She did a good reputation,
so they took her, took downinformation and decided promise to would act
on it. The officer instructed herto be back at the station the following
(15:58):
morning at seven am and have ahelicopter from the Air Support Division there to
take them up into the area andsept it. Even though the officer said
they would have a look at thearea in the morning, Etta felt she
had to go to the location forherself, just to ensure that I had
been checked. She said about thepulling, feeling that something inside of her
(16:18):
thought that they wouldn't check it intime, and she didn't know if the
victim was dead and alive, butshe just felt so strongly that she had
to be there and somebody had tobe there to help in case the victim
was alive, And she felt anoverwhelming sort of sense of someone had to
get there straight away, and shecouldn't leave it, but she couldn't rest
until she'd acted on it, soshe went to the canyon. She had
(16:40):
no idea, obviously at that point, if anything was going to be there
at all, or if she waslosing her mind. Yeah, but she
just kept referring to this vision inher head and what she'd seen, so
without really thinking it through, shewent back home, picked her kids up.
Her kids were nine or ten yearsold at the time, loaded them
into the car with her twenty yearold niece, and drove to the spot
from her. As she got closerto the location, she says she began
(17:03):
to feel again Melanie's presence, confirmingto her that she was somewhere in the
canyon. She spottied a fresh setof car tracks. Instinctively, something told
her to stop the car, soshe got out of the van and went
to take a closer look at theset of tire tracks. She put her
fingers into the impressions in the dirt, and as soon as they touched the
dirt, she said, it waslike almost an electrifying feeling. Oh my
(17:26):
god, that she could feel allkinds of trauma. Assuming this from Melanie
giving her a sign that she wason the right track, right, This
is so weird, but so interesting. She followed the tracks as she felt
something pulling her in that direction,and at that point ETA's daughter said she
spotted something in the bush. Asthey got closer, Eta could tell that
(17:47):
it was in fact a body,and all she could really make out was
the white nushing shoes sticking out fromunder the bush. She knew it had
to be Melanie, and she lookedaround the location. Everything was exactly it
been in her vision. She calledpolice, who eye in the scene quickly,
and an autopsy determined that the bodywas indeed Melanie. She had been
robbed, raped, and beaten todeath. She was stripped, naked and
(18:07):
left in the canyon, just likees I'd seen in her vision. However,
Melanie's killers remained at large. Policedidn't have anyone in custoday, and
the only real leads they had togo on at this point was the witness
who said they saw two men jumpinto her truck. They wondered exactly though,
how Eta knew so much about whereMelanie's body could be. Yeah,
that's my first thought. Is verysuspicious, Yeah, especially whether it have
(18:30):
anything else to go on. Herdescription was too accurate. They thought,
and they felt it was so accuratethat really she really had to be rous
witnessed and questioned. There'd been nothingin the papers indicating any clues about this,
so the police thought, how couldshe possibly know all this? How
could you have this vision and knowall this? The case was going nowhere,
(18:52):
There'd been no reports, so howcould she know so much? Now
that they were in this deserted areawith her, all the suspicions really fell
on her. I would They calledEtta into the police station that evening questioned
her a number of times. Ettasaid. The two detectives that sat down
with her wanted her to explain thewhole thing, how the whole thing unfolded,
(19:14):
and they were quite disturbed at howit seems so normal to her they've
had this vision, even though sheclaimed not to be psychic. Yeah,
she said. She finished telling themeverything over and over again, filled in
all the blanks, and they madeher start at the beginning countless times.
That's normal because obviously they're thinking there'sgoing to be some flaws a paring.
She's not going to remember exactly,she said, every single time, But
(19:34):
she did, and they would makeher tell the story again and again and
again went on for hours and hours, and then it became very obvious to
her that she was now the primesthat had Yeah, I would be my
main fair coming forward if I hada taking a real chance. So especially
if it's that clearing her head andit's that accurate. The police felt she
(19:55):
knew too much to not be involvedin it, and even if she wasn't
the one who visited killed Melanie,they believed she was some sort of necessity
to a crime, either before orafter the murder. YEP, she was
intedicated for ten hours. She couldn'treally explain to them why or how she
had the vision, but she deniedhaving any involvement throughout the entire interview.
They asked her to take two polygraphexams. She passed both. Yeah,
(20:19):
but the thing with polygraphs is they'renot one hundred percent accurate police. I
mean, the police feel accurate enough. It's an indication, yeah, but
sometimes, but it's not inconclusion.Nothing's feel proof. There was it really
no no. If someone fails thetest, obviously the focus on that person.
But she passed it twice. However, if the person passes the test,
they may still not be uiled outas a suspect, and that's exactly
(20:41):
what happened. The detectives believed shewas trying to deceive the polygraph by attempting
to hold her breath, and sothey even went as far as to tell
her that she'd failed the test,just to see they could get her to
finally crack and tell them what theywanted to hear. But she didn't.
But she didn't crack, she didn'tbreak, She didn't provide them with anything
that they want. However, theystill arrested and charged her as a necessity
(21:03):
to murder, and she was lockedup for four days. She was a
mom of two, obviously a respectablemember of the community, so being in
jail for four days obviously had quitea grulling effect on her. But lucky
for her, always about to berevealed, a police informant came forward and
said they'd heard one of the killersbragging about the murder in the neighborhood,
talking about how he and his friendswere the real murderers and they were getting
(21:26):
away with it. The man,who apparently couldn't keep his mouth shut,
was arrested and quickly turned on hisco conspirator, the real killers. It
turns out were a seventeen year oldminor who was not identified due to his
age, and a man called SpencerNelson who was twenty one, and Lewis
Carnell Morgan, who was twenty andjust like the witness had described, the
men jumped into Melanie's truck while shewas at a stoplight and made her drive
(21:48):
into the canyon about fifteen miles away. They then raped her and beat her
to dead with a rock while shebegged for her life. She died a
horrible death due to blunt folds traumato the head. With this book and
profession, Etta was released from jail. Police had determined that she had no
connection to the perpetrators of the murder, even though they couldn't rationally explain how
(22:08):
she'd known about everything that she'd said. Etta again at the end, said
she had no explanation for her suddenon sexci capabilities. She said she wonders
why the events transpired in her head. She has no idea how it happened,
and she just thinks that one ofthese mysterious things in life that she
just happened that you can't explain,yeh, which is so weird. It
(22:29):
was so accurate She went on tofile a wrongful arrest suit against the police.
She won damages because of that,in the region of seven hundred and
fifty thousand dollars. One narrative thatkept coming up during the trial was that
Eta just wanted to be famous,and that maybe she'd overheard one of the
killers talking about it and she madeup the elaborate story herself, but there
was never an evidence of that.She denied having any desire to become famous
(22:51):
during the trial or finding the body, and an undercover police officer that was
putting a cell with Etta said thatshe talked about writing a book and make
a movie from an experience, whichagain was proven to be false. Right
in the end, she was waterof damages. She has never had any
other visions like that since. She'sgone on to live a real, littile,
(23:11):
normal life after that. Right.The three killers were all convicted shortly
afterwards and all received life in prison. Good, but the miner's never been
named. Seventeen year olds, now, that's quite young to be doing that.
And I got all that information fromvarious websites. One was called two
activist dot com, the other wascalled medium dot com. Oh, I
love that one which I had nevercome across before, but I'm so interesting.
(23:33):
Another one was called Unsolved Mysteries dotfandom dot com is very interesting.
But that is the story of Etaand her very clear vision that she kind
of explain so spooky. I loveit, and we're back. We are
back. Melanie is currently being theusual fidget and moving all the equipment around
(23:55):
Welsh recording. Holly's in the cornergiving her the eyes. There was some
incidents with our last recording, allfour episodes that we recorded last time,
and I put the microphones really closeto both our faces, which we proceeded
to slam our faces off the microphonesa few times. Yeah, face planted
head, budtied everything and oh,I just did again. It genuinely sounds
(24:18):
like somebody is knocking the wall downwhen that happens. But you do a
fabulous job of vaditing out all mymisdemeanors and it has a lot well there's
a few of mine as well.So my story is about somebody called can't
wait to hear this? Loving thissubject. I love the subject. Andre
daegel Oh, who was a twentyseven year old carpenter in June of nineteen
(24:41):
eighty seven. Oh so philly decent, not too far away. No,
we'll feely decent for us. Imade fairly reason for us. It's still
like thirty odd years ago. Butsure you forget the eighties with that long
ago. I know shit, Iknow u. And he was housitting for
his brother at the time of hisdeath. Oh so. He was described
(25:03):
as a very kind man and hewas the sort of person who would help
anyone in need, no matter whatthe circumstances. Oh, it's just like
a real sweetheart. He sounds likea lovely guy. I think all carpenters
are. I've never met a nastycarpenter. No little helpful people. Yeah,
Legian's old. So on June ninth, nineteen eighty seven, he met
up with his friend and they wentto dinner and then to play pool and
(25:23):
have drinks, which sounds like anawesome night excellent love about pool. He
was in New Orleans, Louisiana atthe time, so while at the bar
for drinks, Andre's friend noticed himtalking to a woman named Thelma, who
said she needed a ride as theywere leaving so that she could go and
check in on a friend of hers. Okay, so of course, him,
being the friendly man that he was, was like, oh, okay,
(25:48):
and she's like, well, myfriend's pregnant. I'm worried about her.
He's like, oh, yeah,i'll take you. I'll definitely take
you because yeah, like he's justhe was just a kind person who would
literally help anyone. He agreed todrop her off and they left in his
black ass uv going to an apartmentcomplex where she said the pregnant friend was
living. Okay, so Andre wentto the apartment with her. Nobody really
knows why he went with her,but maybe he was just making sure that
(26:10):
she got up there, Okay,don't know. Charles Gervay was also twenty
seven and had been raised by anAbusa father, and he had been in
trouble with the law since his teens. He had only been out of prison
for a few months on the nightthat Andre went into Thelma's apartment to help
her with her supposed pregnant friends.Okay. When Andre went into the apartment,
Charles was waiting with another man namedMichael Phillips. Okay, this was
(26:34):
all a set up. Thelma,Charles, and Michael were all living together
in the apartment. There was nopregnant friend, Michael and Thelma were in
a relationship, and the other guywas just like a third wheel. Okay.
There are quite a few versions asto what happened next, but it
was generally agreed by no putting thelittle pieces together that Charles was very influential
(26:56):
and was the leader of the group. Okay. He set out a plan
for the three to obtain cash,weapons, and a vehicle before going to
Houston to take over a prostitution ringafter wiping out a mafia family who controlled
it. Oh, he had bigplans and he seemed to you know,
have them planned out. However,I'm not entirely sure that's the best plan
(27:18):
for your future. No, No, So Charles decided that in order to
prove trust, they would have tokill someone like Oh, okay, you
know eat plan gang initiation. Sothat's why Thelma had lured Andre to the
apartment. She left him while pretendingto check on her pregnant friend up in
the bedroom. I was always thenice people. That's always the nice people.
(27:40):
I know, it doesn't pay tobe nice. Everybody just be horrible.
That's terrible advice, don't do it. So she pretended to go check
on her pregnant friend, and hefell asleep on the couch while waiting for
her. I assume because he'd hada few drinks, like he was maybe
just a week as sleepy. Yeah. Meanwhile, Charles and Michael were nearby
with a hammer. It hesitated fora few hours. So this guy's sleeping
(28:00):
on the couch and they're standing aroundwith a hammer going out, you do
it, you do it, youdo it, you do I mean,
that is just fucking freaky. Itis freaky. They were going back and
forth like neither one of them wantedto be the one to do it,
but eventually Michael was like, fuckit. So Michael hit him in the
head four times before handing the hammerto Charles, who hit him two or
three more times. Right, sothey've had him like eight times with a
(28:22):
hammer on the head, yeah,maybe around that number. Andre was still
making noise, so Michael hit himfour more times what the fuck with the
hammer before dragging him into the hallwhere Andre moved again, freaking them out
because he is like a legend.Yeah he's still not dead. I mean,
a hammer for fox ach. Iknow. Michael hit him a few
(28:45):
more times with the hammer, butit wasn't working, So they tried to
strangle him with a wire hanger,Oh my god, then a vacuum cleaner
cord while jumping on his back.Oh my god. They're very bad at
killing people, and Andre is toughas shit. He's a carpenter made of
steel. Yeah, eventually he diedtoo. It took a lot to kill
(29:07):
him, but people took two peoplein pretty much every method that they could
come up with in their fucking hairbrain. I don't know why, the
coyote schemes. So they turned onthe air conditioner the next day so that
the smell wouldn't get bad. Butit does anyway. Yeah, it takes
it takes a wee while, butyeah. Then they wrapped him up and
(29:29):
put him in the sofa and sofayeah so like a lot of sofas are
hollow inside, especially the old fashionedones. So they put him in the
sofa, then nailed aboard over that. My god, Yeah, what a
stinky sofa. Well it wasn't,I mean, it wasn't that long.
So it was like basically a day. Yeah, that day though, like
(29:51):
the next the day after he died, the building manager made a surprise visit,
sat on the sofa, I noticeddark red puddles which they said were
paint and that they were clean itshortly as they were moving out, Like
I think he had come to likekind of inspect the flat and see how
it was because they were moving out. Uh huh. So he saw blood.
They said it was paint and theysaid they were cleaning it. Mmm.
(30:15):
Red flag. It's a red flag, but he believed it. So
they used Andre's suv to dump thesofa in a swamp before dropping off Theilma
at her mother's and then they wentto New Orleans to work on the next
steps of their grand plan oh God, which remembers to take over a prostitution
ring from the mafia I mean thesepeople. Mm hmmm. Yeah. When
(30:38):
Andre didn't show up for work,his friend called his parents and family,
who were very worried. They hadn'theard from him, and that was unusual
because he was like close with hisfamily. Yeah, they printed flyers and
went out searching themselves, as thesheriff's office was not helpful at this point.
Again, when an adult goes missing, it's really hard to yeah,
because you have the right to gomissing if you want to, yep,
(31:00):
And it's really hard for the place. Yeah, So the police were not
helpful. Neither were the staff atthe bar he was last seen, and
they were not cooperative. They didn'twant to help out, probably because they
don't like getting involved with shit thatwould then get them retaliated against the other
bar, smatched up or whatever.One of Andre's sisters in California hadn't yet
(31:21):
been told that Andrea was missing,but had gone to visit a psychic for
a reading with a coworker of hers, Okay Rosemary Carer gave the reading and
when she called to tell her motherabout the reading and how accurate it was,
the sister she was then told thatAndrea was missing, and her mom
asked her to go back to thepsychic before she flew home to join in
the search. So psychic didn't sendanything at the time of the reading,
(31:45):
but her mom asked her to goback and just to please ask if she
senses anything. They were just desperate. Within hours of the reading, based
on what was said, Andre's familywere able to track down this suv and
capture the murderers. So the readingtook place four days after Andrea went missing,
and his sister was asked to bringhis photo in a map of Louisiana.
(32:07):
She took a childhood photo of allthe brothers with her that had Andre
Enna's That wasn't just Andrea, itwas all the brothers, Okay, Rosemarie
had a talent for finding missing persons. She had no info and rubbed the
photo. She all of a suddenhad a horrible headache. She said her
head was killing her. Then shesaid she saw a black car truck,
which Andre's sister didn't understand and saidhe drove a white car, but the
(32:30):
psychic again insisted it was a blackand that she saw a man with long
blonde hair, which one of themurderers had who had some sort of control
over Andrea. She kept her eyesclosed and moved over the map with her
fingers, saying she saw a longbeach and stretch of water, as well
as the number seven. So Iknow. Turns out Andre's body would be
(32:51):
found just off of Eggsit seven,on a strip of sand in the swamp.
She told them to go to thistown quickly. She pointed out on
a map and told them to goto the town. So the sister called
her family and the family all wentout to the town and they just so
happened because the sister didn't know thathe had sold his car and got a
truck. Yeah, that's why shekept saying, like you no, he
(33:12):
doesn't know. Yeah. So whenthey went to this town, they saw
Andre's truck in the town. Onthe way to the body location. One
of the family cars followed the murderersto a dead end road while they were
driving his truck. The police werecalled and the car took off again.
The police happened to be part nearby. Didn't even this wasn't even the call,
(33:36):
Like they weren't even they weren't evenaware that they they had been called
in, but they just happened tobe partner by saw the suv and the
family showing him the missing poster andgave chase. So like the family stopped
really quick quent like they're missing,this is missing, and that's the car
shit. So like these criminals havethe worst criminal Oh my god, criminally
(33:57):
exactly, they heard about a lotof bad They literally fucked up every part
of it and then drove by acop. So the cop gave chase and
he pulled them over. They hadweapons and ammunition and they were taken into
custody. Amazing, amazing. Bothsuspects gave statements, with Charles, the
ringleader, confessing, which was geestraight away over worse crims and he was
(34:24):
like, oh, and by theway, here's where to find the body.
So the autopsy of Andre showed elevenskull fractures and strangulation from the court
and also bruising obviously on his backwhere they were at distractured to skull eleven
times. Yep. So Charles Bloodguilty to second dream murder and life with
(34:45):
no probation. Michael pled guilty tosecond degree murder and was sentenced to life
in prison. Thelma claimed innocence,but was also found guilty and sentenced to
life. So tough luck, Thelma, You're an asshole. Rosemary did actually
they testified the trial, did sheyeah, And they used her testimony in
court and she was like, yeah, this is what I saw and and
(35:07):
she helped to convict them. Ohmy god, how can you not believe
in the shit now? I know? I mean, it was very,
very exactly amazing that those skills wereable to find some finality and convict people.
And she was insistent that they hadto go to that town right now,
and that is exactly where the killerspossibly know that that you couldn't know
(35:28):
that they could have been anywhere inLouisiana. I got to love all this.
That's so cool. So I actuallygot all of this adjustable, my
psychic told me. No. Ilistened to episode eighty two of Crime Curious
Podcasts, which covered this case andalso the La Times article from the seventh
(35:49):
of February nineteen eighty eight. Thatwas awesome. I loved it. Thank
you, and we're back. Weare back for the longest say so,
I don't even think this is ourlongest episode ever. We're back to conclude
we are so recap. Oh,this is going to be tough. So
(36:13):
eleven skull fractures from a hammer forwhich he kept being not from alive.
After eleven skull fractures, eleven skullfractures and strangled him which is how he
actually died. Yes, with thehoover cord or vacuum clean and they were
on his back trying to make sureso he could breathe in. Yeah,
(36:35):
I hate them. I know,they're awful, awful human beings and they
have very bad plans. Oh god, I mean, seriously, if you're
going to do a job, doit properly? You know, why bother
not that I'm supporting this, noram I suggesting it. Why are you
stealing a prostitution ring from the mafia. Why don't you make your own like
just you know, keep your planslike, you know, simple simple plans
(36:58):
for simple minds. Yes, yes, don't just go Oh here's a plan,
let's go for the mafia. Mafianot id and five a minute in
that world. Oh, by theway, I want to go to Sicily
on honeymoon, and David's refusing becauseof mafia links he has mafia like because
Cicily obviously is mafia linked or doeshe plan on doing a long time ago,
(37:21):
I think you'll find Cicily is notfull of mafia people. It's full
of people. Huh exactly. Butno, wow, this is this is
still up for debate anyway. Soyes, And then we have Melanie who
was in a cart stopped light,ambushed by three men. She was raped,
(37:42):
beaten, she was raped, beatenand hitting the head of the rock.
Oh, that's right, and itwas that killed her. That's right.
God. I mean, the fractureskill thing really freaks me fucking out.
I mean, I've got to say, really scared raped and being blunt
fosh. Trauma really freaks me outalso, and I I can't ever pick
(38:06):
rape. I just can't, Iknow. So I'm gonna have to go
with your guy, even though itsounds fucking herrific. And he is an
absolute machine to still be alive witheleven fractures to the skull. I've been
hit in the head work with ahammer, albeit by my own hand.
What I was gonna say, Whatthe fuck? You haven't told me this
ever? Okay, So my parentswere, like I've said, catch and
(38:29):
released kind of parents. They justsort of let me go. And I
was I had a full on accessto every single one of my dad's carpentry
tools and he had all the tools. So I was using shit I shouldn't
have been using from the age oftwo three years old. And I would
take a hammer and I would gohit shit just to see what would happen.
(38:52):
Well, if you hit a hammeroff of something, yes, it
sometimes bounces back. Yes, andI have done. That's a idea.
Do you know what, It's happenedmore than twice, So you are con
facing this to the wadd that wasa child, Okay, I was stupid.
My first swear word was hammer related. Actually excellent, but yes,
so I do love your childhood sopretty funny. The I know what it
(39:16):
feels like, not to the degreethat somebody else is doing it to me,
but I know what it feels like. So I am controversially going to
pick yours. The rape freaks meout. That's a shock. I just
can't do the hamp especially because,like if it had knocked him out the
first time, fair enough, thefact that they kept going back three separate
(39:37):
hammer attacks and she's still alive,like oh, and he's just trying to
get away and he's got two peoplehammering. No, I can't, I
can't do it. Yeah, eventhough she had horrifying and horrifying I still
I think, because I know thefeeling of it and how much it hurts
(39:58):
and how disoriented you are, thinkI'm gonna I'm gonna pick yours. Well,
disagreeing, we are disagree. I'mdisagreeing for the first time in a
while. That feels more normal.Yeah, it feels more normal. Yeah,
that's definitely as in a life comfortzone. Thank you for listening.
It's a long old episode, butyeahday I hope and parts Oh my god,
you have were at forty three minutes. Oh my god, you guys,
(40:21):
your little troopers, are you stillhere? Hello? Thank you for
listening to his swittalo and about varioustopics. What you don't we like to
think of? Relatable? Come andsee Hi, Hello, socials reviews,
Love you, five stars, subscribe. That was everything A lot of words,
just strong wars is strung together becauseI'm just trying to condense. At
the end of the episode, thankyou everyone for sticking around and send us
(40:45):
to your support. Yes, seeyou next time. Bye bye bye.
Which Modeler is hosted by Speaker andis recorded in a secret location in Scotland.
Can find us wherever you listen toyour podcast. Email us at which
Murderer at gmail dot com or visitour website at which Murderer dot com.
(41:06):
We are also on Instagram, Redditand Twitter. Just look for the app
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If you like, Hello, mel, Hello Holly, what's new? What's
new? Well, since we lastspoke, let me think I finished my
yogurt. That's good headlines, that'sgood news. You're on a health kick.
(00:37):
I'm on a health not kick.I'm in the zone. Actually sad,
it's amazing, but I'm quite enjoyingit. Went back to running.
Running has always been my thing.I got very leasy, as we all
do. But I've got right backinto it because I have summer goals.
Yes, and it helps if youhave a goal. So yes, I'm
into running. I think I'm inweek three. So hello, do you
(01:00):
run for before you have to stop? Well, I've gone back to couch
to five k oh okay, becauseI used to run five k's all the
time. Yea, And that wasmy thing for years and news and years,
and then I had the kids andthen went back to it briefly.
But I kind of fell out oflove with running, I think, for
a while. So I've gone NowI've got I went right back to basics
and I'm doing couch to five k, which I'm really enjoying and it properly
(01:23):
works like it's nine weeks of runningprogram. We run three times a week
along to someone that coaches you andtells you everything to do, how long
to run and how long to restand have a restay in between and whatever.
And honestly, you can run fivek's like no bother in nine weeks.
I can barely walk. Anybody cando it. I'm not entirely sure
that. One of their mutual friendson Facebook as well was something we used
(01:47):
to work with who was not arunner at all, and she went,
she went onto it and she lovedit. Yeah, and she's like,
I'm running for like twenty minutes ata time and I'd never been able to
do add my life. Yeah,And it's true. You get to a
point we can we can run afive cane Like I think my record probably
was about twenty eight minutes back whenI was fitting hail seeing properly into it.
(02:07):
But I think you can run tohave five caves in like twenty five
minutes or something really, which isawesome. And I just think running for
me, it's just like pop podcaston pop your tunes on awesome. See
for me, you say with whichmarginer? Oh we which murderer with the
running podcast? Now for me?We don't like I get such bad shin
(02:29):
pain. Yeah, I used to, but it's all about woman up properly.
Oh I don't have to try that. But like Thursday, I walked
ten k. Friday I worked tenk. Did you see you're doing that
for work? Yeah? I wasdoing excite tours all right. I thought
you meant like you were doing likesome sort of sponsored thing. Oh god,
no, it wasn't voluntary. Iwas really pissed off about it.
Oh right, okay, fine,but it's still fitness, which is good.
It was satinus. But like Iwas telling the person I'm one of
(02:52):
my coworkers I was with, Iwas like, I do this for fun
on the weekends. When I haveto do it for work, it just
makes me mad. Oh, Iguess a completely different kettle of fish.
Plus it was walking on like concrete, and it was just, yeah,
it's not us fun. So twentyk over those two days, and then
on the Sunday I went ice skating, and I swear to god, ice
skatings hard to work. It's hardwork, and I don't ice skate properly
(03:15):
like I love it. I loveit. I grew up doing it,
but I've developed my own way ofice skating, which is not the right
way. It's the same way Iuse chopsticks, which is my way,
not the right way. Yep.So I only skate with one skate.
Okay, do you not use bullsnow? No? So I push off
with my right and I steer withmy left. So I'm like a boat.
(03:38):
This is something I want to see. So we are going to do
a podcast ice skating. I'm goingto film it. I'm going to show
every Monday. I don't know.I don't know what point because I remember
when I was a little I usedto boogy around that ice so good.
I don't when I was younger,I did backwards, I could do everything
else. I loved it. Godhelp me. No, I'm like a
(04:00):
sail boat now. I have tolike my my right leg is this is
the wind in the sails, andmy left leg is just the boat going
straight down the ice. Like isthe most bizarre thing. This is something
I have to witness in life,my God, honestly, and all these
little shits we're five years old,like zoom and past on their little skates
and you're like, nah, bostards, little bastards. It's because you're a
(04:25):
center of gravity is so much.You're like holding the penguin. I wasn't
holding a penguin. I was notholding a penguin. Were just being a
boat. I was being a sailboat. And then I would stop at like
sure quite a lot. Oh god, you get more feedful as you get
older, though, you really do. Are you watching the winters at Olympics?
No, my god, we've beenWe've been dipping an out of it.
(04:46):
I must say, we've been watchingdoing I don't know. We usually
do pretty good in winter. Soby they all I've seen is Italy doing
very well enough, they do verywell. How does that work? No,
they don't do well in summer.They do very well in winter.
They've got the fucking Alps. Well, I know. But they predominantly come
from a hot country. Apart fromthat, I mean, do they what
seventy it's hot? Is it not? I don't think it would be hot.
(05:10):
They winter and snow and shit,yeah, but not like winter Olympic
snow. Yeah up in the mountainsyeah, and the mountains yeah, but
not anywhere else. But they don'tneed it everywhere the athletes in the mountains.
Yeah, but as as a country, as a whole, it's like
getting and sunny. No, butthat's the thing. They go skiing because
they're so close to Switzerland, They'reso close to all those countries that love
(05:33):
the winter sports. They're so closeto it that they can just pop over.
But I've been watching it and itjust takes me back to my favorite,
one of my favorite films of alltime, because obviously my favorite film
of all time is Willy Wonka.Okay, did not know that? You
did not know that? How canyou? How can you be friends me
for all these years and don't knowthat Willy Wonka is my favorite film of
all time. My favorite film isI going to go and take it?
(05:55):
Probably something like bloody and gory.I'm what is your favorite Fela? I
don't know. Yeah, take itback, take you back? Okay,
your favorite film is probably The Exoguist. Isn't I even in the top fave?
Shining? No? Is it lighthearted? Is it Madey Poppins of music?
(06:23):
I don't know that. You're aterrible friend. Who I'm so sorry?
Oh my god, my favorite filmis The Amadeus. What the fuck's
that? This is a movie aboutMozart? Oh my god, snooze,
It's not Snooze is about chocolate.It's it's about somebody slowly being driven mad
(06:44):
to the point of death, Isuppose, and you wouldn't be like hearts.
Okay, So going back to theWinter Olympics takes me to my second
favorite film, which is about thelegend that is John Candy and it's kill
Runnings Riches Awesome. I heard Jamaicais in it this year. Yeah,
yeah, Running. I actually watchedit recently with the kids for the first
(07:06):
time. And you know how wehit the kids to watch like one of
your films. He loved as andyou worry that it doesn't and some of
them haven't. Yeah, but theyloved it. Really, they really liked
it. Yeah, they really likedit. They didn't unfortunately though they seen
Charlie and the Chocolate Factory with JohnnyDepp before they seen Willy Wonka with Jane
Wilder, and they did not likeWilly Wonka. Yeah. Jane Wilder was
(07:27):
really fucking creepy. Yeah, soJohnny Depp though, I Ny Depp had
a touch with Michael Jackson's about massage. Yeah he did. No, Sorry
Michael Jackson fans, but you know, no, Yeah, a lot,
a lot is wrong there music musicallyfabulous? Yeah, not musically not so
fabulous. I don't know. There'sbeen some debate recently and a lot of
stuff's coming out that maybe those werefalse allegation. Oh well, well you
(07:49):
know, nothing has proven so fairenough. Yeah, but a lot was
said anyway. It was a bitof a strange character, but it was
musical genius. Yes, he wasabsolutely yes, so way sidetracked as usual.
How the fuck did we even gethere because I was talking about Winter
Olympics and Kill Runnings. Oh right, okay, and I have to watch
I'm gonna have to watch Kill Runningsagain because it's just it's just taking me
a bit back for yours. Imean, I watched it last year and
(08:13):
I found it so fucking funny.But I love John Candy like I love
Uncle Buck. He's Canadian. SeeCandy is Canadian? Did not know that?
Oh my god, I did notknow that. Did you not know
our national Dead Treasures? He isawesome and he died really young, didn't
Hey, well yeah he was hard. Yeah, yeah, he was not
(08:33):
a healthy. Uncle Buck is likeone of the greatest things ever. It's
pretty cute and I love him.In the first home alone as well.
Oh my god, he helps themom get home. Yeah, he's cute
and that. Have you watched inCanto yet the New Disney Room. No,
I've not seen it. Have you'veseen Luca? No, I haven't
seen that. That's awesome. Thatis awesome. Yes, it's really really
awesome. That was the last kindof Big Disney one i'd seen. But
I've not seen in Canto. Ohit's so good. But I was like
(08:56):
bawling at the end. It's onDisney Plus. Yeah, I've got that,
so I'll watch it. Is amazing. Oh but have we got time
to talk? One will tell you? Or we went on too much?
I mean nine minutes worth of movies. Sorry, guys, there is murder
coming up. Well I can talkabout this another time now, because I
want to know a TV show.We always wanted a TV show that we
could watch the family together and weprobably enjoy it, the four of us.
(09:18):
And I've never seen this, andDave had seen it and thought we
need to watch this together. Sowe went back to watch the very beginning
of Malcolm in the Middle. Ohmy god, oh my god. We're
all loving it, and the boysare like, what do you watch for
The Malcolm. When you watch onThe Malcolm, Yeah, it is so
good and I've never ever seen itso and David seen some of it,
but we're now only I think we'renearly on the third season and we're loving
(09:39):
it. I had no idea thatBrian Canston was dad. Yeah, no,
I know. I was like,oh my god, Briankknson. Dave's
like, yeah, yeah, Ihad no idea. I knew like who
Malcolm was, I knew of himwhen I was younger, but I had
no idea of the dad and heis absolutely brilliant and it's so funny in
it. But they're all brilliant inthe individually, Like the mum's brilliant as
(10:00):
well. Love the Mum, butit's so funny because like the Mum,
people keep saying similarities to me andthe mum. I could say that,
I could say that she's like abit crazy and chit's a bit. Yeah.
Yeah, we're absolutely loving it.Sorry, sorry, everybody. We've
talked about TV and films for night. Yes, yeah, you could just
fast forward. That was too week. However, we are going to talk
(10:22):
about another listener suggestion right, whichwas Cheryl again, Oh thank you Thank
you, Cheryl. Come back anytimewith suggestions. Please have months of suggestions,
which is awesome, so good.And it's is murders solved by psychic,
which I was well into this one, I mean, and I want
to visit a psychic so badly.I wonder if my guy is still taking
(10:45):
but nobody, you know, there'slike years of waiting, lasts or whatever
else. And I really so badlywant to visit one because I love it.
I just I believe in it allabout it all. I love it.
I don't necessarily believe it all.But I waited two years to go
see a guy and he was amazing. I mean, I'm not waiting two
years and most impatient person in theworld anyway, But I mean, I
really want to see someone. Anyway, I shall carry on. So I'm
first this week, Yes you are. And my murder served by Psye Cake
(11:11):
involves a lady whose name is Melanie. Personally, I think that's a fabulous
name. Her name is Melanie Uribe. How would you say you are ibe?
Uriby? Are ib r ib rib urebe sonybys family or America?
Okay, So I'll just call itMelanie from now on. Okay. Melanie
(11:33):
Uribe was born on the ninth Septembernineteen forty eight in Burbank, California.
She was a divorced, single motherof an eight year old son, and
she worked as a nurse at thehospital in burn Bank, Burn Bank,
Burn Banks, Barbank at the PasiomaHospital in Burbank. On December the fifteenth,
(11:54):
nineteen eighty, Melanie went missing onher way into work the night shift.
When she failed to show up,the hospital called her house phone,
but no one answered. After notcoming into work at any point throughout the
shift, her employer decided to callthe police. She was known to be
very reliable and punctual, so notshowing up for a shift, especially when
she had a job as important asbeing a nurse, was just not normal
(12:16):
for it at all. Right.Police went to her home, where the
talked to her roommate, who saidthey had not seen her since she had
left for work. This would havebeen like the sixties, right, She's
born in nineteen forty so yes,yeah, the sixties, they would actually
care if you didn't show up towork. I'd like go check on you.
Now they don't give a shit,She described her Where was I Oh,
yeah. They talked to her roommate, who said they hadn't seen her
(12:39):
since she left her work. Shedescribed Melanie to police as being about five
foot two and she's tall, blonde, and was last seen wearing a white
uniform, leather jacket, and abrown sweater when she left the apartment to
go to work. The next morning, police found Melanie's truck with her nurse's
uniform in it, but no signof Melanie. The truck had been set
on fire. Initially, police weren'tsure if Melanie was dead and alive.
(13:01):
They searched the area and found noother trace of her, so they put
out a media lat on TV andradio, and it wasn't long before they
received calls from witnesses and said thatthey heard a woman's screaming and watched these
two men force their way into thewomen's truck and drove away. They watched,
they saw that happen. They didn'tcall police, no, not until
they heard disappear in radio. Butthen sometimes it takes that to triger people's
(13:24):
memory. Or maybe I mean,someone's screaming and been dragged into a truck
by two our men and it's afemale, You should be fucking active on
that. Yeah, I would liketo think. That same day that I
absolutely loved that. I love thisstory, love it. That same day,
a thirty two year old aerospace workerby the name of Etta Smith,
also from Burbank, was listening tothe radio work when she heard the news
(13:48):
bulleting about Meleanie come up and talkabout her disappearance and how they'd found her
truck on a dead end street,but we're still looking for her. She
heard how police had search the area, including the houses nearby, and at
that point she heard her voice inher head say, she's not in a
house. Oh. And as soonas she had that thought, she then
(14:09):
had a clear visual in her headof where Melanie was. Oh. In
her vision, she saw a canyonand a curving road, some shrubberry hills
in the backdrop, and a dirtpath leading to something white. She didn't
know the name of the location oranything more than that, but she did
a very clear vision, almost likea movie scene in her head. Oh.
ESAs never claimed to be a psychic. I was going to say,
(14:31):
is she even a psychic? No, this was something new to her,
so she argued with herself over whatto do with the vision. She didn't
want to come off as crazy,but what she had just seen in her
head was so clear, and shehad this pulling feeling like she just would
be able to live with herself ifshe didn't tell the police what she saw.
So there's obviously great danger of hersounding like a crazy lady. In
(14:52):
the end, though, she decidedto leave work a little early and tell
the authorities about her vision. Atthis point, she didn't really if anyone
thought she was nuts. The feelingthat, the pulling feeling that she had
was so strong that she had todo the right thing. Oh my god.
She went to the police station andtold him that she had a vision
about where the missing person was.She described the location in great detail,
and the officer knew of where shewas referring to. She was able to
(15:16):
pinpoint the spot in a map,which was a remote part of the San
Fernando Valley in the Lopez Canyon.As it turned out, the police had
not searched that area, but thedetective in charge assured Eta that they would.
Of course, detectives were really skepticalof this scheming. I can't speak,
really skeptical of this seemingly random womanwalking into a police station talking about
(15:37):
a vision she'd had. Yeah,of course he would be. But they
checked Etta out and she was abusiness woman with a top security clearance.
She obviously she worked near a space. She wasn't just like this randomer off
the street of whatever else. Shehad credibility, She did a good reputation,
so they took her, took downinformation and decided promise to would act
on it. The officer instructed herto be back at the station the following
(15:58):
morning at seven am and have ahelicopter from the Air Support Division there to
take them up into the area andsept it. Even though the officer said
they would have a look at thearea in the morning, Etta felt she
had to go to the location forherself, just to ensure that I had
been checked. She said about thepulling, feeling that something inside of her
(16:18):
thought that they wouldn't check it intime, and she didn't know if the
victim was dead and alive, butshe just felt so strongly that she had
to be there and somebody had tobe there to help in case the victim
was alive, And she felt anoverwhelming sort of sense of someone had to
get there straight away, and shecouldn't leave it, but she couldn't rest
until she'd acted on it, soshe went to the canyon. She had
(16:40):
no idea, obviously at that point, if anything was going to be there
at all, or if she waslosing her mind. Yeah, but she
just kept referring to this vision inher head and what she'd seen, so
without really thinking it through, shewent back home, picked her kids up.
Her kids were nine or ten yearsold at the time, loaded them
into the car with her twenty yearold niece, and drove to the spot
from her. As she got closerto the location, she says she began
(17:03):
to feel again Melanie's presence, confirmingto her that she was somewhere in the
canyon. She spottied a fresh setof car tracks. Instinctively, something told
her to stop the car, soshe got out of the van and went
to take a closer look at theset of tire tracks. She put her
fingers into the impressions in the dirt, and as soon as they touched the
dirt, she said, it waslike almost an electrifying feeling. Oh my
(17:26):
god, that she could feel allkinds of trauma. Assuming this from Melanie
giving her a sign that she wason the right track, right, This
is so weird, but so interesting. She followed the tracks as she felt
something pulling her in that direction,and at that point ETA's daughter said she
spotted something in the bush. Asthey got closer, Eta could tell that
(17:47):
it was in fact a body,and all she could really make out was
the white nushing shoes sticking out fromunder the bush. She knew it had
to be Melanie, and she lookedaround the location. Everything was exactly it
been in her vision. She calledpolice, who eye in the scene quickly,
and an autopsy determined that the bodywas indeed Melanie. She had been
robbed, raped, and beaten todeath. She was stripped, naked and
(18:07):
left in the canyon, just likees I'd seen in her vision. However,
Melanie's killers remained at large. Policedidn't have anyone in custoday, and
the only real leads they had togo on at this point was the witness
who said they saw two men jumpinto her truck. They wondered exactly though,
how Eta knew so much about whereMelanie's body could be. Yeah,
that's my first thought. Is verysuspicious, Yeah, especially whether it have
(18:30):
anything else to go on. Herdescription was too accurate. They thought,
and they felt it was so accuratethat really she really had to be rous
witnessed and questioned. There'd been nothingin the papers indicating any clues about this,
so the police thought, how couldshe possibly know all this? How
could you have this vision and knowall this? The case was going nowhere,
(18:52):
There'd been no reports, so howcould she know so much? Now
that they were in this deserted areawith her, all the suspicions really fell
on her. I would They calledEtta into the police station that evening questioned
her a number of times. Ettasaid. The two detectives that sat down
with her wanted her to explain thewhole thing, how the whole thing unfolded,
(19:14):
and they were quite disturbed at howit seems so normal to her they've
had this vision, even though sheclaimed not to be psychic. Yeah,
she said. She finished telling themeverything over and over again, filled in
all the blanks, and they madeher start at the beginning countless times.
That's normal because obviously they're thinking there'sgoing to be some flaws a paring.
She's not going to remember exactly,she said, every single time, But
(19:34):
she did, and they would makeher tell the story again and again and
again went on for hours and hours, and then it became very obvious to
her that she was now the primesthat had Yeah, I would be my
main fair coming forward if I hada taking a real chance. So especially
if it's that clearing her head andit's that accurate. The police felt she
(19:55):
knew too much to not be involvedin it, and even if she wasn't
the one who visited killed Melanie,they believed she was some sort of necessity
to a crime, either before orafter the murder. YEP, she was
intedicated for ten hours. She couldn'treally explain to them why or how she
had the vision, but she deniedhaving any involvement throughout the entire interview.
They asked her to take two polygraphexams. She passed both. Yeah,
(20:19):
but the thing with polygraphs is they'renot one hundred percent accurate police. I
mean, the police feel accurate enough. It's an indication, yeah, but
sometimes, but it's not inconclusion.Nothing's feel proof. There was it really
no no. If someone fails thetest, obviously the focus on that person.
But she passed it twice. However, if the person passes the test,
they may still not be uiled outas a suspect, and that's exactly
(20:41):
what happened. The detectives believed shewas trying to deceive the polygraph by attempting
to hold her breath, and sothey even went as far as to tell
her that she'd failed the test,just to see they could get her to
finally crack and tell them what theywanted to hear. But she didn't.
But she didn't crack, she didn'tbreak, She didn't provide them with anything
that they want. However, theystill arrested and charged her as a necessity
(21:03):
to murder, and she was lockedup for four days. She was a
mom of two, obviously a respectablemember of the community, so being in
jail for four days obviously had quitea grulling effect on her. But lucky
for her, always about to berevealed, a police informant came forward and
said they'd heard one of the killersbragging about the murder in the neighborhood,
talking about how he and his friendswere the real murderers and they were getting
(21:26):
away with it. The man,who apparently couldn't keep his mouth shut,
was arrested and quickly turned on hisco conspirator, the real killers. It
turns out were a seventeen year oldminor who was not identified due to his
age, and a man called SpencerNelson who was twenty one, and Lewis
Carnell Morgan, who was twenty andjust like the witness had described, the
men jumped into Melanie's truck while shewas at a stoplight and made her drive
(21:48):
into the canyon about fifteen miles away. They then raped her and beat her
to dead with a rock while shebegged for her life. She died a
horrible death due to blunt folds traumato the head. With this book and
profession, Etta was released from jail. Police had determined that she had no
connection to the perpetrators of the murder, even though they couldn't rationally explain how
(22:08):
she'd known about everything that she'd said. Etta again at the end, said
she had no explanation for her suddenon sexci capabilities. She said she wonders
why the events transpired in her head. She has no idea how it happened,
and she just thinks that one ofthese mysterious things in life that she
just happened that you can't explain,yeh, which is so weird. It
(22:29):
was so accurate She went on tofile a wrongful arrest suit against the police.
She won damages because of that,in the region of seven hundred and
fifty thousand dollars. One narrative thatkept coming up during the trial was that
Eta just wanted to be famous,and that maybe she'd overheard one of the
killers talking about it and she madeup the elaborate story herself, but there
was never an evidence of that.She denied having any desire to become famous
(22:51):
during the trial or finding the body, and an undercover police officer that was
putting a cell with Etta said thatshe talked about writing a book and make
a movie from an experience, whichagain was proven to be false. Right
in the end, she was waterof damages. She has never had any
other visions like that since. She'sgone on to live a real, littile,
(23:11):
normal life after that. Right.The three killers were all convicted shortly
afterwards and all received life in prison. Good, but the miner's never been
named. Seventeen year olds, now, that's quite young to be doing that.
And I got all that information fromvarious websites. One was called two
activist dot com, the other wascalled medium dot com. Oh, I
love that one which I had nevercome across before, but I'm so interesting.
(23:33):
Another one was called Unsolved Mysteries dotfandom dot com is very interesting.
But that is the story of Etaand her very clear vision that she kind
of explain so spooky. I loveit, and we're back. We are
back. Melanie is currently being theusual fidget and moving all the equipment around
(23:55):
Welsh recording. Holly's in the cornergiving her the eyes. There was some
incidents with our last recording, allfour episodes that we recorded last time,
and I put the microphones really closeto both our faces, which we proceeded
to slam our faces off the microphonesa few times. Yeah, face planted
head, budtied everything and oh,I just did again. It genuinely sounds
(24:18):
like somebody is knocking the wall downwhen that happens. But you do a
fabulous job of vaditing out all mymisdemeanors and it has a lot well there's
a few of mine as well.So my story is about somebody called can't
wait to hear this? Loving thissubject. I love the subject. Andre
daegel Oh, who was a twentyseven year old carpenter in June of nineteen
(24:41):
eighty seven. Oh so philly decent, not too far away. No,
we'll feely decent for us. Imade fairly reason for us. It's still
like thirty odd years ago. Butsure you forget the eighties with that long
ago. I know shit, Iknow u. And he was housitting for
his brother at the time of hisdeath. Oh so. He was described
(25:03):
as a very kind man and hewas the sort of person who would help
anyone in need, no matter whatthe circumstances. Oh, it's just like
a real sweetheart. He sounds likea lovely guy. I think all carpenters
are. I've never met a nastycarpenter. No little helpful people. Yeah,
Legian's old. So on June ninth, nineteen eighty seven, he met
up with his friend and they wentto dinner and then to play pool and
(25:23):
have drinks, which sounds like anawesome night excellent love about pool. He
was in New Orleans, Louisiana atthe time, so while at the bar
for drinks, Andre's friend noticed himtalking to a woman named Thelma, who
said she needed a ride as theywere leaving so that she could go and
check in on a friend of hers. Okay, so of course, him,
being the friendly man that he was, was like, oh, okay,
(25:48):
and she's like, well, myfriend's pregnant. I'm worried about her.
He's like, oh, yeah,i'll take you. I'll definitely take
you because yeah, like he's justhe was just a kind person who would
literally help anyone. He agreed todrop her off and they left in his
black ass uv going to an apartmentcomplex where she said the pregnant friend was
living. Okay, so Andre wentto the apartment with her. Nobody really
knows why he went with her,but maybe he was just making sure that
(26:10):
she got up there, Okay,don't know. Charles Gervay was also twenty
seven and had been raised by anAbusa father, and he had been in
trouble with the law since his teens. He had only been out of prison
for a few months on the nightthat Andre went into Thelma's apartment to help
her with her supposed pregnant friends.Okay. When Andre went into the apartment,
Charles was waiting with another man namedMichael Phillips. Okay, this was
(26:34):
all a set up. Thelma,Charles, and Michael were all living together
in the apartment. There was nopregnant friend, Michael and Thelma were in
a relationship, and the other guywas just like a third wheel. Okay.
There are quite a few versions asto what happened next, but it
was generally agreed by no putting thelittle pieces together that Charles was very influential
(26:56):
and was the leader of the group. Okay. He set out a plan
for the three to obtain cash,weapons, and a vehicle before going to
Houston to take over a prostitution ringafter wiping out a mafia family who controlled
it. Oh, he had bigplans and he seemed to you know,
have them planned out. However,I'm not entirely sure that's the best plan
(27:18):
for your future. No, No, So Charles decided that in order to
prove trust, they would have tokill someone like Oh, okay, you
know eat plan gang initiation. Sothat's why Thelma had lured Andre to the
apartment. She left him while pretendingto check on her pregnant friend up in
the bedroom. I was always thenice people. That's always the nice people.
(27:40):
I know, it doesn't pay tobe nice. Everybody just be horrible.
That's terrible advice, don't do it. So she pretended to go check
on her pregnant friend, and hefell asleep on the couch while waiting for
her. I assume because he'd hada few drinks, like he was maybe
just a week as sleepy. Yeah. Meanwhile, Charles and Michael were nearby
with a hammer. It hesitated fora few hours. So this guy's sleeping
(28:00):
on the couch and they're standing aroundwith a hammer going out, you do
it, you do it, youdo it, you do I mean,
that is just fucking freaky. Itis freaky. They were going back and
forth like neither one of them wantedto be the one to do it,
but eventually Michael was like, fuckit. So Michael hit him in the
head four times before handing the hammerto Charles, who hit him two or
three more times. Right, sothey've had him like eight times with a
(28:22):
hammer on the head, yeah,maybe around that number. Andre was still
making noise, so Michael hit himfour more times what the fuck with the
hammer before dragging him into the hallwhere Andre moved again, freaking them out
because he is like a legend.Yeah he's still not dead. I mean,
a hammer for fox ach. Iknow. Michael hit him a few
(28:45):
more times with the hammer, butit wasn't working, So they tried to
strangle him with a wire hanger,Oh my god, then a vacuum cleaner
cord while jumping on his back.Oh my god. They're very bad at
killing people, and Andre is toughas shit. He's a carpenter made of
steel. Yeah, eventually he diedtoo. It took a lot to kill
(29:07):
him, but people took two peoplein pretty much every method that they could
come up with in their fucking hairbrain. I don't know why, the
coyote schemes. So they turned onthe air conditioner the next day so that
the smell wouldn't get bad. Butit does anyway. Yeah, it takes
it takes a wee while, butyeah. Then they wrapped him up and
(29:29):
put him in the sofa and sofayeah so like a lot of sofas are
hollow inside, especially the old fashionedones. So they put him in the
sofa, then nailed aboard over that. My god, Yeah, what a
stinky sofa. Well it wasn't,I mean, it wasn't that long.
So it was like basically a day. Yeah, that day though, like
(29:51):
the next the day after he died, the building manager made a surprise visit,
sat on the sofa, I noticeddark red puddles which they said were
paint and that they were clean itshortly as they were moving out, Like
I think he had come to likekind of inspect the flat and see how
it was because they were moving out. Uh huh. So he saw blood.
They said it was paint and theysaid they were cleaning it. Mmm.
(30:15):
Red flag. It's a red flag, but he believed it. So
they used Andre's suv to dump thesofa in a swamp before dropping off Theilma
at her mother's and then they wentto New Orleans to work on the next
steps of their grand plan oh God, which remembers to take over a prostitution
ring from the mafia I mean thesepeople. Mm hmmm. Yeah. When
(30:38):
Andre didn't show up for work,his friend called his parents and family,
who were very worried. They hadn'theard from him, and that was unusual
because he was like close with hisfamily. Yeah, they printed flyers and
went out searching themselves, as thesheriff's office was not helpful at this point.
Again, when an adult goes missing, it's really hard to yeah,
because you have the right to gomissing if you want to, yep,
(31:00):
And it's really hard for the place. Yeah, So the police were not
helpful. Neither were the staff atthe bar he was last seen, and
they were not cooperative. They didn'twant to help out, probably because they
don't like getting involved with shit thatwould then get them retaliated against the other
bar, smatched up or whatever.One of Andre's sisters in California hadn't yet
(31:21):
been told that Andrea was missing,but had gone to visit a psychic for
a reading with a coworker of hers, Okay Rosemary Carer gave the reading and
when she called to tell her motherabout the reading and how accurate it was,
the sister she was then told thatAndrea was missing, and her mom
asked her to go back to thepsychic before she flew home to join in
the search. So psychic didn't sendanything at the time of the reading,
(31:45):
but her mom asked her to goback and just to please ask if she
senses anything. They were just desperate. Within hours of the reading, based
on what was said, Andre's familywere able to track down this suv and
capture the murderers. So the readingtook place four days after Andrea went missing,
and his sister was asked to bringhis photo in a map of Louisiana.
(32:07):
She took a childhood photo of allthe brothers with her that had Andre
Enna's That wasn't just Andrea, itwas all the brothers, Okay, Rosemarie
had a talent for finding missing persons. She had no info and rubbed the
photo. She all of a suddenhad a horrible headache. She said her
head was killing her. Then shesaid she saw a black car truck,
which Andre's sister didn't understand and saidhe drove a white car, but the
(32:30):
psychic again insisted it was a blackand that she saw a man with long
blonde hair, which one of themurderers had who had some sort of control
over Andrea. She kept her eyesclosed and moved over the map with her
fingers, saying she saw a longbeach and stretch of water, as well
as the number seven. So Iknow. Turns out Andre's body would be
(32:51):
found just off of Eggsit seven,on a strip of sand in the swamp.
She told them to go to thistown quickly. She pointed out on
a map and told them to goto the town. So the sister called
her family and the family all wentout to the town and they just so
happened because the sister didn't know thathe had sold his car and got a
truck. Yeah, that's why shekept saying, like you no, he
(33:12):
doesn't know. Yeah. So whenthey went to this town, they saw
Andre's truck in the town. Onthe way to the body location. One
of the family cars followed the murderersto a dead end road while they were
driving his truck. The police werecalled and the car took off again.
The police happened to be part nearby. Didn't even this wasn't even the call,
(33:36):
Like they weren't even they weren't evenaware that they they had been called
in, but they just happened tobe partner by saw the suv and the
family showing him the missing poster andgave chase. So like the family stopped
really quick quent like they're missing,this is missing, and that's the car
shit. So like these criminals havethe worst criminal Oh my god, criminally
(33:57):
exactly, they heard about a lotof bad They literally fucked up every part
of it and then drove by acop. So the cop gave chase and
he pulled them over. They hadweapons and ammunition and they were taken into
custody. Amazing, amazing. Bothsuspects gave statements, with Charles, the
ringleader, confessing, which was geestraight away over worse crims and he was
(34:24):
like, oh, and by theway, here's where to find the body.
So the autopsy of Andre showed elevenskull fractures and strangulation from the court
and also bruising obviously on his backwhere they were at distractured to skull eleven
times. Yep. So Charles Bloodguilty to second dream murder and life with
(34:45):
no probation. Michael pled guilty tosecond degree murder and was sentenced to life
in prison. Thelma claimed innocence,but was also found guilty and sentenced to
life. So tough luck, Thelma, You're an asshole. Rosemary did actually
they testified the trial, did sheyeah, And they used her testimony in
court and she was like, yeah, this is what I saw and and
(35:07):
she helped to convict them. Ohmy god, how can you not believe
in the shit now? I know? I mean, it was very,
very exactly amazing that those skills wereable to find some finality and convict people.
And she was insistent that they hadto go to that town right now,
and that is exactly where the killerspossibly know that that you couldn't know
(35:28):
that they could have been anywhere inLouisiana. I got to love all this.
That's so cool. So I actuallygot all of this adjustable, my
psychic told me. No. Ilistened to episode eighty two of Crime Curious
Podcasts, which covered this case andalso the La Times article from the seventh
(35:49):
of February nineteen eighty eight. Thatwas awesome. I loved it. Thank
you, and we're back. Weare back for the longest say so,
I don't even think this is ourlongest episode ever. We're back to conclude
we are so recap. Oh,this is going to be tough. So
(36:13):
eleven skull fractures from a hammer forwhich he kept being not from alive.
After eleven skull fractures, eleven skullfractures and strangled him which is how he
actually died. Yes, with thehoover cord or vacuum clean and they were
on his back trying to make sureso he could breathe in. Yeah,
(36:35):
I hate them. I know,they're awful, awful human beings and they
have very bad plans. Oh god, I mean, seriously, if you're
going to do a job, doit properly? You know, why bother
not that I'm supporting this, noram I suggesting it. Why are you
stealing a prostitution ring from the mafia. Why don't you make your own like
just you know, keep your planslike, you know, simple simple plans
(36:58):
for simple minds. Yes, yes, don't just go Oh here's a plan,
let's go for the mafia. Mafianot id and five a minute in
that world. Oh, by theway, I want to go to Sicily
on honeymoon, and David's refusing becauseof mafia links he has mafia like because
Cicily obviously is mafia linked or doeshe plan on doing a long time ago,
(37:21):
I think you'll find Cicily is notfull of mafia people. It's full
of people. Huh exactly. Butno, wow, this is this is
still up for debate anyway. Soyes, And then we have Melanie who
was in a cart stopped light,ambushed by three men. She was raped,
(37:42):
beaten, she was raped, beatenand hitting the head of the rock.
Oh, that's right, and itwas that killed her. That's right.
God. I mean, the fractureskill thing really freaks me fucking out.
I mean, I've got to say, really scared raped and being blunt
fosh. Trauma really freaks me outalso, and I I can't ever pick
(38:06):
rape. I just can't, Iknow. So I'm gonna have to go
with your guy, even though itsounds fucking herrific. And he is an
absolute machine to still be alive witheleven fractures to the skull. I've been
hit in the head work with ahammer, albeit by my own hand.
What I was gonna say, Whatthe fuck? You haven't told me this
ever? Okay, So my parentswere, like I've said, catch and
(38:29):
released kind of parents. They justsort of let me go. And I
was I had a full on accessto every single one of my dad's carpentry
tools and he had all the tools. So I was using shit I shouldn't
have been using from the age oftwo three years old. And I would
take a hammer and I would gohit shit just to see what would happen.
(38:52):
Well, if you hit a hammeroff of something, yes, it
sometimes bounces back. Yes, andI have done. That's a idea.
Do you know what, It's happenedmore than twice, So you are con
facing this to the wadd that wasa child, Okay, I was stupid.
My first swear word was hammer related. Actually excellent, but yes,
so I do love your childhood sopretty funny. The I know what it
(39:16):
feels like, not to the degreethat somebody else is doing it to me,
but I know what it feels like. So I am controversially going to
pick yours. The rape freaks meout. That's a shock. I just
can't do the hamp especially because,like if it had knocked him out the
first time, fair enough, thefact that they kept going back three separate
(39:37):
hammer attacks and she's still alive,like oh, and he's just trying to
get away and he's got two peoplehammering. No, I can't, I
can't do it. Yeah, eventhough she had horrifying and horrifying I still
I think, because I know thefeeling of it and how much it hurts
(39:58):
and how disoriented you are, thinkI'm gonna I'm gonna pick yours. Well,
disagreeing, we are disagree. I'mdisagreeing for the first time in a
while. That feels more normal.Yeah, it feels more normal. Yeah,
that's definitely as in a life comfortzone. Thank you for listening.
It's a long old episode, butyeahday I hope and parts Oh my god,
you have were at forty three minutes. Oh my god, you guys,
(40:21):
your little troopers, are you stillhere? Hello? Thank you for
listening to his swittalo and about varioustopics. What you don't we like to
think of? Relatable? Come andsee Hi, Hello, socials reviews,
Love you, five stars, subscribe. That was everything A lot of words,
just strong wars is strung together becauseI'm just trying to condense. At
the end of the episode, thankyou everyone for sticking around and send us
(40:45):
to your support. Yes, seeyou next time. Bye bye bye.
Which Modeler is hosted by Speaker andis recorded in a secret location in Scotland.
Can find us wherever you listen toyour podcast. Email us at which
Murderer at gmail dot com or visitour website at which Murderer dot com.
(41:06):
We are also on Instagram, Redditand Twitter. Just look for the app
which Murderer account or hashtag. Youcan join the debate on our Facebook page
and group, interacting with on ourlisteners or the which Murderer team. Our
theme music is kill Me Again byBlue bend. Our artwork was produced by
Wild Creations at fiver dot com.
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